Another Fraud from Mr Fifteen per cent .

THE first shock is that Labor leader Bill Shorten’s new global warming policy on Friday was such a naked and preposterous fraud.

 

Shorten actually announced a non-promise to do something useless at a cost he won’t give for a result he doesn’t know on evidence he made up.

For a start, Shorten actually made no “promise” or “pledge” on Friday to cut our emissions by 45 per cent. He promised only “consultations”.

Hear it from Shorten himself: “I announce Labor will use the Climate Change Authority’s recommendation of a 45 per cent reduction as the basis for our consultations with industry, employers, unions and the community.”

Moreover, Shorten refused to tell us what such cuts would cost us in new carbon taxes or — inevitably — much higher power bills.

Nor would he say how he’d cut our emissions by such a huge amount, saying only his environment spokesman would work it out later.

He also wouldn’t estimate how many jobs he’d cost by shutting down our gassier industries, merely assuring us he’d be “mindful of the consequences for jobs”.

Shorten would not even say what difference his plan — independently estimated to strip $600 billion from our economy over 15 years — would make to the world’s temperature.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/andrew-bolt/bill-shorten-offers-a-global-warming-plan-we-cannot-afford/news-story/53690a37d4be0099d8ba19d39dce8674

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Deep divisions resurfaced ahead of last night’s opening of the Paris climate talks, with the US and Australia digging in to insist that developed nations’ historical responsibilities for carbon dioxide emissions be scrapped. 

 

The issue has been a “red line” for developing nations led by India, which is pushing ahead with economic development to bring millions of people out of poverty.

A change to how historical carbon emissions are treated would require India and other nations to contribute more to future emissions cuts and climate finance.

A confidential “non-paper” discussion document issued by the US sets out the hard line that the US and Australia intend to take in the Paris talks.

Underlining one of the major challenges to reaching a universal deal, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi warned last night that poor nations had a right to burn carbon to grow their economies.

Chinese intransigence on the issue of historical responsibility was largely blamed for the breakdown of the 2009 UN climate change talks in Copenhagen.

The US position paper also wants developing countries to contribute to the climate funds in future and not just the developed countries as is required under ­existing UN arrangements.

Mr Modi issued his challenge as the 12-day conference opened.

“Justice demands that, with what little carbon we can still safely burn, developing countries are allowed to grow,” he wrote in the Financial Times.

“The lifestyles of a few must not crowd out opportunities for the many still on the first steps of the development ladder.”

A spokesman for the ­Department of Foreign Affairs said Australia was aware of the US discussion paper.

“Like the US, we want a common platform for all countries to take action from 2020, moving past binary differentiation between developed and developing countries, and allowing for continuous improvement over time.”

In 2009 then Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd blamed the Chinese delegation, which insisted on the principle of “common but differentiated responsibilities” and defended the rights and interests of developing countries, for ruining the Copenhagen climate change talks. “Those Chinese f..kers are ­trying to rat-f..k us,” Mr Rudd complained.

The US and Australia now wants the Paris agreement to focus only on existing economic capabilities of countries and their existing circumstances.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/paris-climate-summit-us-hard-line-opens-split-on-carbon/story-e6frg6xf-1227628957431

 

And the Australian public don't give a rats about it all 

As the 2013 Australian Election Survey, conducted by the Australian National University, showed, the most important issues nominated by voters at the election were management of the economy (27.5 per cent), health and Medicare (19 per cent), and education (14.9 per cent). More than 60 per cent of the 3955 people surveyed named one of these issues as the most important to them.

However, for Labor’s true believers the environment and climate change polled first (23 per cent). Next was immigration and asylum-seeker policy (16 per cent) and third was social security, pensions and welfare (12 per cent). These issues make up more than half the responses (51 per cent) on issues deemed most important.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-27/people-rally-in-melbourne-for-climate-change/6981136

Tens of thousands of people have gathered for a climate change rally in Melbourne, in one of the largest demonstrations of its kind.

Rally organisers have estimated that up to 60,000 took to the streets, while Victoria Police said up to 40,000 were in attendance.

A climate change rally in Melbourne in 2006 drew 30,000 people.

Thousands of Australians have joined a worldwide wave of marches on the eve of United Nations climate change negotiations in Paris, calling for stronger measures to combat global warming.

Events were held today in Sydney, Canberra, Perth and Hobart, as well as regional and rural towns around Australia, joining about 600 other cities in more than 120 countries around the world.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-29/climate-change-marches-around-australia/6984094

 

Now thats a lot of aussies making the effort to get out and march. So much easier to chill out in front of the tv or watch cats do stuff on Youtube. Think of the pathetic effort of Jones grand truck protest converging on Canberra with the giant publicity yet it was a fizzer.

The Australian public has concerns and is motivated enough to get off their bums and show it.

Did you March Geo?

Is this the Andrew Bolt thread ?

Reminds me of the Whyalla wipe-out and lamb costing $100 per kg - all BS of course,  much like most of this thread , LOL

Flash news 24 million Aussies do not take to the streets to support stronger  measures to combat global warming...

More news 76,000 people attend Taylor Swift concert in Sydney . 

Melbourne consists of 31 municipalities. It has a population of 4,442,918 as of 2014, only 40,000 marched to support Shortchange call for higher spending on climate change . 

The other 99 per cent would like less spending and not have the highest electricity prices in the world . 

Can this fraudster go any lower , considering his lousy support for more spending it looks as if it could go down to below one..

Ahh electricity prices have gone up since the manchild scrapped the carbon price/tax and so have emissions. Maybe you missed my comment about people getting off their behinds to march or just ignored it. How many people complained in the media or letters to the editor about the removal of the manchild ? The sense of relief across the nation was palpable.

quote pete " 24 million Aussies do not take to the streets to support stronger  measures to combat global warming..." and not one person marched in favour of doing nothing.

Pete if I were you I would be embarassed by sticking up for the ones who cause so much pollution but I guess some are not very up to date  :)

Former prime minister Tony Abbott has accused Foreign Minister Julie Bishop of lying in a recent comment about the lead-up to February's failed leadership spill.

It has been revealed Ms Bishop was with Malcolm Turnbull in February when he reportedly phoned Scott Morrison and offered to make him treasurer in a future Turnbull government. ABC today

Ruddy corrupt government - blimey , they are a mob of crooks.

 

Don't you ever get tired of the ridiculous things you say Gerry...I'm sorry but the present government is the best you're going to get for a long while...get used  to it.

So what if Scott Morrison was offered the job way back then...we want the best man for the job..Morrison is at the moment.

Fleur, let's get real here. You think Morrison is the best man for the job....many of us don't agree. Why insult those who don't agree with you?

Yes... quite emphatically in my opinion and in the opinions of many people who support Liberal... Morrison is the best man  for the job...on the other hand... to many who support Labor, he is not....does that make it fairer? Hope so.

Perhaps Robi...you should also reprimand Gerry when he keeps insulting Pete....why aren't you doing that? Are you too biased in Gerry's favour? Is that fair? You know that Pete and I never got along...but fair is fair...and he has a right to contribute to the forum...same as anyone else. 

Geezus Fleur, you are starting to sound like Ray. Poor Pete........etc, etc. I was responding to your first insulting paragraph written to Gerry. Had nothing to do with Pete.

 

No...I'm not just starting to sound like Ray...since he started posting I have shared his views and Robi...I am not the least bit interested in anything you have to say. Ray is correct and so is Micha...you always need a fight going on...it's seems an integral part of your personality. I am happy to say I don't need to be in the thick of anything....I'm happy as I am.

Yes...I support the Liberal party proudly...I also lean a little to the left when there is something to lean for...but it's been a long while since I saw any value in anything they have to say and am totally unimpressed by the whole lot. Sorry you seem to find that offensive...but more than 50% of Australians share my view....that's why they are in the driver's seat.

May I correct you on one thing...I have never said "poor Pete"...as you may recall, I had too many run ins with Pete and should be glad whenever he gets a knocking from the left brigade...but I'm not made that way and I don't think Gerry should run around the forum the way he does insulting anyone...it just happens to be Pete. 

That's it...I've said enough...

What a nasty person you are turning out to be Flour, but it has been showing up a fair bit lately

 

 

No Gerry...I'm not nasty...just very honest and some people don't like honesty and integrity. Let's be really straight here Gerry...if I supported Labor....I would be a little blue eyed lady. That's the honest truth..and misspelling my name deliberately...is very unbecoming Gerry...shame on you.

Let me add this Gerry...I have friends in most of the parties whom I meet socially...but I have never come across such a strange handful of Labor supporters as I have on this forum.

Good idea Gerry...I shall do that...thanks for your advice.

Have a very pleasant evening hating the Liberal Party and those who support it...don't let it put you off your dinner.

Maybe you need some pink in your life!

Quote Robiconda:  Why insult those who don't agree with you?

Don't see any insults, what is your definition of an insult Robi??

Quote Gerry: Ruddy corrupt government - blimey , they are a mob of crooks.

Now that is a ridiculous statement Gerry and you know it, no party is immune from having a couple of bad apples.


It woulld not surprise me one bit if Bishop lied she is good at that, she is not someone you could trust at all  -- in fact NONE of them are --hey not that I am sorry that Abbott is gone,  I have given Turnbull a go but he is not a lot different to Abbott except he has brains,  but does lack heart.   Turnbull has the same pollies as Abbott and as far as Morrison goes well another one with NO heart.    I agree there are All a mob of crooks.

It almost makes me say STOP THE WORLD I WANT TO GET OFF,  I am sick to death of the lot of them

I agree with you (and Gerry) PlanB. They are all power mongers verging on crooked. The public deserves better from politicians than what has been served up in recent years. I have been reading Peter Harcher's expose of what has been going on within the Liberal Party and anyone who does not see that 'ambition rules' (including Malcolm Turnbull) is naive as far as I am concerned. Why do we keep faith with these self-serving, sneaky, users of the public good will? People like Scott Morrison who declares that pensioners are welfare recipients while politicians receiving early, extroadinary pensions are not. Where I live we have learned that 'people power' can work because our community has had a win against gas mining ever dominating our landscape and destroying our environment. The people of Ballina electorate voted a Green in last State election which scared the Nats, who have ruled forever in this area, sh*tl*ss. Lismore electorate almost had a win for the Greens also. I love my community....they are so 'with it' in fighting against the status quo and working out how to achieve what they want for their electorates/communities. We also have amazing grass roots things happening to become independent with power. We have a company planning to buy alternative power (only) to the grid which will support numerous companies starting up who are planning to supply this power. The whole community is gearing up to become totally independent from existing power companies who are ripping us all off. PEOPLE POWER WORKS but first ordinary people need to stop putting their faith in politicians who lie through their teeth, pretend to be servers of the public and extraordinary gentlemen. They have all shown themselves to be nothing more than bullshit artists full of their own egotistical belief and ambition.

I need to add that the Nats were supporting the mining companies 100% until they got voted out in Ballina and nearly voted out in Lismore. Only then did they recognise that community anger went far beyond what they thought was a small enclave of Greens discontent and attempt to persuade government to buy back the mining leases. Labor also paid for previously supporting the mining companies and selling the initial leases when they were ruling State government in NSW. I don't know whether the Greens will win again but the community in both electorates shifting Green scared the major parties enough to shift dramatically. 

haha petey , you lie again. I have offered an opinion only to be ridiculed by flour. remember you are the one who suggested that flour has multiple personalities.

Gerry it's time to go back to your forest and play with your pigs,

You have nothing to offer a seniors forum .,

What a stupid question, did I march. As you well know I use a scooter to do shopping and have Emphysema whcih would make me an unlikely candidate to march. Then again there was no march in the Latrobe Valley or more to the point Morwell. Though the question was not asked because of curiosity but the usual do you still bash your wife type thing WOS indulges in. One thing you are consistent in is never raising the bar above mediocre.

Oh I see you didn't march but accuse all the others of being couch potatoes , typical , 

Would be nice if you had something interesting to say for once Gerry and leave the insults behind.

Robi local politics is about as boring as bat shit .You made a point somewhere that the pension is not welfare .of course it is . 

The pension in Australia is not paid from savings but out of general taxation . 

That is each generation is paying for those previous generations who did not save for their retirement. 

What happens when they say enough is enough , as they are doing the young successful ones are loosing 50 per cent of their salaries so going offshore to UK US and Asia to take their entrepeneurial spirit to where it is appreciated  

Seems like Hockey you do not understand the progressive tax system in Australia. I am sure I put up the various rates starting with the first 18k tax free. Maybe you missed it or as is your want just ignoring the facts to suit. Maybe you just dont know what your talking about and accept what someone else has written or said.

 

The age pension is of course a welfare payment, no shame in that. The following is all copy/paste, haven't got time to put in my own words 


"The Productivity Commission's working paper gives a nice pause to the stereotype by providing a plethora of data and research on who gets what. The first thing to remember about Australia's welfare system is that it is unlike most other nations. As the commission notes: "In contrast to most OECD countries, in Australia eligibility for payments does not depend on a person's employment record and the rates of payment are flat and means-tested, rather than being at least partially linked to a person's earnings."

But as with most countries the big welfare spend is on retirees.

The age pension makes up about 31 per cent of welfare, and total assistance to the aged accounts for about 40 per cent:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-14/jericho-aged-pension-and-welfare/6852860

The largest slice of our welfare payments goes towards the age pension. According to OECD Pensions at a Glance 2013, Australia’s public spending on the age pension is much lower than pension spending in Europe.

Australia spends 3.5% of GDP on the age pension, while Italy spends 15%, France spends 14% and the United Kingdom spends 6%. While our figures look good on a global perspective, the nations we are comparing ourselves against are in a pretty bad shape themselves.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/05/30/australias-overly-generous-welfare-in-context/

Treasurer Scott Morrison has put ordinary Australian workers on notice that they should no longer expect to receive an age pension from the government when they retire.

The age pension should not be regarded as an entitlement for all, but rather a "welfare payment for those who do not have the ability to save enough to fund their own retirement", Mr Morrison said.

More than twenty years since compulsory superannuation was introduced the system is not yet efficient enough at meeting its objective to "supplement or replace" the age pension, he said.

Mr Morrison said the age pension should remain "as a safety net", and that people who take time out of the workforce to raise children or perform carers duties should not be left behind.

"Becoming a self-funded retiree, I think, is one of the most important objectives of any Australian … it means you have choices and control over your life and your care," Mr Morrison said."

Hope this helps to clear up whether the age pension is a welfare payment or not.

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