Russia has killed 28 Australians
Russia has killed 28 Australians ...we should seek out revenge against those who committed this act ...
quitely and one by one they should be made to pay ...
Time to rethink name, purpose of retrieval operation
Every person in Australia is aware of the terrible disaster that is MH17 and the thoughts of all Australians go out to the grieving relatives ("Abbott’s promise held hostage by fires of war", July 30). The government should be quietly doing whatever is necessary and humanly possible to help those left behind. There is nothing it can do to help the victims of MH17. Why then do we have the headline-grabbing "Operation Bring Them Home" headed by a retired air chief marshal?
It is becoming increasingly likely that a number of the victims will never be recovered and the very words "Operation Bring Them Home" offers false hope to many.
By creating "Operation Bring Them Home" Tony Abbott has compromised the solemnity of this disaster and will ultimately provide increased and prolonged pain for the grieving relatives.
John Gray Balgowlah
The two fundamental rules of rescue and recovery operations are (a) you cannot do anything to help dead people, and (b) you should not become part of the problem yourself. The bodies of the MH17 victims are not being recovered for their own sake, but for the sake of those grieving for them.
That is a commendable aim, but it should not be achieved at the expense of any more lives.
Lewis Winders Sheffield (Tas)
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/smh-letters/arch-sculpture-an-arc-dembarrassment-20140730-zyi9f.html#ixzz38xhyNfx1
Pete it is an opinion piece, this is a forum with guidelines to discuss the topic and not by attacking the poster, your continuous personal attacks on various posters who you don't agree with is harassement IMO.
Everyone is entitled to post something whether or not we agree with it is supposed to be by discussion of the topic not by personal attacks.
It is a simple rule to follow and includes all of us, even you.
Thank you Viv
where have I personaly attacked a anybody . Having been the victim of personal attacks it is something I do not do .
Geomac continually puts up pieces that are offensive such as staying that Abbott wishes for a tragedy involving Australians . This I find offensive and will call it as such .
I also object to your pomposity and continual stalking whilst ignoring disgusting threads to which you never complain .
Pete, just as you disliked Gillard for your own reasons, people have a right to dislike Abbott for their own reasons without being admonished by you as "disgusting" and "shameful" etc. I agree with what Viv has said.
When peple like Viv stay silent when Davey attacks other members with vile comments or Foxy attacks Phyll with vile comments or Foxy attacks Gerry on the very day he is going in for an eye operation . Or Geomac uses a tragedy to attack Abbott and accuses him of wanting another Australian tragedy and you agree I will complain . Or when Mussitate accuses the Isralies of wanting to murder all Palestinines and their children
The only time you and Viv raise your voice is against me complaining .
Silence in the face of bigotry is compliance ..
Well gee we can't all be pure white and perfect like you Pete but since you want me to raise my voice more I'll say here and now that the comments you made on the now deleted Ian Thorpe thread were pretty off, homophobic and disgusting. Ah feels good to get that off my chest so thank you Pete.
I made no homophobic comments about Thorpe . My critisim was one of his commercialism before his coming out and his biographie saying he was not gay for commercial reasons and then making a half a million dollars to say he was .
Daveys posts were homophobic , Anaconda, not Petes.
The lefties ganging up on Pete again, not surprised
Pete/Solly rewrites history.
Pete, you need to turn your gaze inward.....people are trying to tell you something and you are retaliating instead of listening. Geomacs post concerning bringing back the deceased from the MH17 disaster was sensible and practical. Directing comments such as "you should be ashamed of yourself" to geomac is certainly a personal attack. We on the forum are not grieving relatives and should be able to discuss such issues fairly dispassionately.
My critisim of Geomac is for his opinions in politising a tragedy . And saying that Abbott is wishing for another tragedy involving Australians . His response to me is personal attacks.
Thankyou for your support kfc unfortunately however politely I expressed it Pete is unable to accept it
Pete thanks for the laugh "Pompous" not a word in use generallly I presume it may be one you hear often?
As far as "continual stalking" actually I normally ignore anything you put up far too much of your stuff to waste my time on, but when a phrase is repeated under another posters name often cannot ignore it, so don't delude yourself I try to ignore you let alone read you or stalk you..
How do you know who puts in reports about what? You don't. You have tried to bully people into complaining your way about Maggie, Abby, Foxy, Davy, Gerry, Geomac probably more, notably we do not have a vigilante on here as you would wish but people obviously go about things in a quieter less confronting manner the last time "into the box" was what 69 reports? Fortunately you are not the Moderator on this site and others do it complaining their way without causing further conflict.....
It doesn't seem to matter who posts vile posts attacking other members or plainly despicable posts , as the one of Geomacs regarding Abbott or Foxy's post on Phyll the only one you raise you voice at is me when I complain .
you have never apologised for saying I lied re boarding school or is that the bee in your bonnet..
Pete as I said you have no idea who, why or how people complain or even whether it is done directly through PMs.
Pete I have no bee in my bonnett about your "boarding" school. Personally you should recall I preferred to make no further comment after looking up records after all, what is in a name? I suggest you do not push at me with that one.
I find just reporting achieved nothing in spite of all Phylls efforts Foxy continues to abuse her . Davy still continues his vile comments. The only way is for others to speak up and say this behaviour is unacceptable which I will continue to do .
Let's face it Viv this site including the editorial is a rant against The coalition and Abbott in particular . Anyone who has another view is hounded and leaves . How many have come on and attacked as being me ..
My first post on here was against the PC view and still is...
Pete, you have a lot to say about people not speaking up about Foxy's attacks yet nothing to say about Solomon's attacks on virtually everyone. Why?
I not only complain about Foxy's bullying of Phyll but Daveys remarks of throw another Jew on the fire etc . And will continue to do so . Some feel like Viv that to report is enough .
I disagreed with Soloman in his statement of the West Bank being Israeli land . It saddens me that Soloman overreacted to Dinks who is a lady with a big heart and one of the sensible ones and was badly treated when first on here along with all newcomers.
I am not Jewish but can understand their reaction when they perceive a bias to Hamas.
In first ignoring the ceasefire and now saying the roads aren't safe because road bombs have been set the Ukraine government could be thought to be delaying investigation of the plane wreck. Since they state the separatists shot down the plane one would think it would be in their interest to enable prompt investigation. But of course, hard to know what is going on.
Using an emotive and military type term to recover bodies from a downed plane makes that action political . Operation desert storm or operation sovereign borders are named for political and military reasons though borders one is ambiguous . I did not name the activity nor blame a country before any investigation has been carried out . Which makes the later statement of wanting to find cause and have those responsible bought to justice seem an add on to appear less shoot from the hip .
If it walks like a duck , waddles like a duck then the odds are very good it is a duck . I have commented on the duck .
Personally I am impressed the way the Malasian quietly handled the problem .... had the the bodies and the black boxes collected. May not have been up to our PM's standard but for the mess the place is in it was well done for people that are not experienced in this type of situation.
Also to be considered is the Ukraine Government taking advantage of the Australian and Dutch people on the ground .... why would they move in the area shooting as the work is about to begin ???
Must admit they got the black boxes without any hooha .
Sadly I doubt whether they will be able to get all the bodies as more and more time passes it will become harder. A nightmare still for the relatives.
This had me in tears, this is what the loss of the plane means to the relatives in any disaster..
http://www.afl.com.au/video/2014-07-31/freos-touching-tribute-to-mh17-victims
Couldn't get the video to work properly Viv. Stops and starts which happens sometimes. Nevertheless could see how sad it is. My heart so goes out to those parents.
RE:
"Sadly I doubt whether they will be able to get all the bodies as more and more time passes it will become harder."
From my undertanding it should be easier as they are planning to bring the dogs in - besides any body remains will high by now after a fortnight in the summer air.
Abby,
"There are still concerns that the crash site has not been adequately secured, with farmers driving combine harvesters in areas that could contain crucial evidence or even human remains."
Approx 40 squre km is a vast area to search - A lot of the summer crop will be ruined for these poor people.
I heard at lunch time that the dogs found more human remains.
Russian heifer exports likely to hit 30,000 this year
By Jon Coindon, 06 July 2012
Australiaâ??s booming breeding heifer export trade to Russia and nearby states is likely to hit 30,000 head this year, as emerging market breeding programs gain further momentum.
http://www.beefcentral.com/live-export/russian-heifer-exports-likely-to-hit-30000-this-year/
Well considering abbott was quick off the mark to label Russia as the culprit in this sad event we apear to be business as normal . No sanctions but plenty of bluster and considering everything is labelled an operation these days no action like Europe and the USA . Where are our pop gun rightards who usually scream we should hit them hard ? Our desktop warriors who love to drape the flag around them and mouth patriotic dribble when it suits a political agenda while gleefully strangling the fair go concept of Australia . The tea party types who would sell their daughter for filthy lucre if the price was right . The Abbott types who will not be satisfied until homeless people are the norm and working poor are the norm . The I,m alright jack bugger you types who love a good scrap as long as it does not affect them or their income .
Well thats it really , keep those doggies rolling , rawhide !
The U.S. and EU on Tuesday announced new sanctions this week against Russia’s banking, energy and defense industries in the wake of the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 earlier this month.
To date, Asia has not shown much appetite for sanctioning Russia over events in the Ukraine. Only Japan and Australia have imposed sanctions on Russia for its annexation of Crimea and interference in eastern Ukraine.
Keep those doggies rolling Raawhide yeah !
No sanctions but plenty of bluster and considering everything is labelled an operation these days no action like Europe and the USA .
you comment above is incorrect Australia has applied sanctions.
I just watched the AFL video that Viv put a link to.
Yes a very moving scene. Brings home the reality of how the ones left behind must feel.
Gerry I also saw the poor Russian Ukraine farmers from the area where the plane and bodies fell - it will take them a long time to recover.
Nothing has been done that will affect Australian business trade with Russia . Nothing has been removed that will hurt foreign trade . Mind you its all academic in any case because the sanctions being pushed by the USA are more about missiles etc in former Eastern bloc countries and some were in place before the plane went down . Europe is reluctant but wants to look as doing something , lot of pain for them and business sector if applied too hard . We are merely spectators , more bark than bite .
Pity the world did not impose sanctions on the illegal invasion of Iraq . No UN approval and all the lies fabricated to invade were made of mist , no substance . Hundreds of thousands of dead people , families and Iraq is worse than ever f thats possible . What a sorry web we weave when we first practice to deceive .
Geoff :)
You must admit that it would be very foolish of Australia to take sanctions against Russia before the investigation is done, whilst our people are there and whilst we are depending on Russia's co-operation.
As for the cattle trade personally I would like to see it stopped because the travel is inflicting
un necessary pain to the animals.
Abby you are so right .,, except the bit about moo moos
Totally agree Abby . Which is why it was foolish of Abbott to blame Putin and then later say we must proceed with caution and due dilligence rhetoric .
As for livestock exports . We should be exporting chilled beef however there is also livestock that is used for breeding up the local stocks
“It’s very disappointing because we’re here to do one thing – to bring back the remains and the possessios. All the time we waste here is so precious,"
Asked if the investigators were safe at their roadside holding spot, Mr Muller explained that the Dutch all travelled in armoured vehichles imported from Holland for the recovery mission – but the Australians travelled in unprotected vehichles acquired locally.
Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu Bakar, who was travelling with the convoy for the first time, was clearly frustrated by the delay.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-investigator-convoy-held-up-by-renewed-gunfire-20140804-100e7h.html#ixzz39QzbsQVH
Noon service to honour victimsTHE AUSTRALIANAUGUST 07, 2014 12:00 AM Rosie Lewis
ReporterCanberra
CHURCH bells will ring across Australia at midday today as the nation stops to remember and mourn those killed in the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.
A multi-faith memorial service will take place at St Patrick’s Cathedral in Melbourne, attended by families of the victims, Tony Abbott, Bill Shorten, Governor-General Peter Cosgrove and state and territory leaders.
“We will pause. We will give thanks for their lives and pray for their loved ones,” the Prime Minister said. “We grieve for all of them, but particularly for the 38 who called Australia home.”
Katie Noonan will sing Even When I’m Sleeping and We are Australian, and the Australian Boys Choir and Opera Australia baritone soloist Sam Roberts-Smith, brother to VC-winner Ben, will perform.
The Prime Minister, Opposition Leader and Sir Peter will speak, and the Dutch and Malaysian ambassadors will give readings.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott must have believed he’d found his nine/eleven moment when he fronted the media immediately after the Malaysian airliner tragedy.
Just a few words into his opening statement he said the aircraft was probably shot down by a pro-Russian-separatist controlled surface-to-air missile. To get the point across he added: “So, it was shot down over Russian-backed rebel territory by what appears to be a Russian-backed rebel missile.”
Having made up his mind about what had happened, he then called for a “full, impartial, international investigation”.
For the next two days the Cold War rhetoric continued, with Abbott saying that Russia should not be allowed to stand in the way of any investigation.
But after talking to President Vladimir Putin and being told that Russia would support an international investigation, Abbott’s language softened as he acknowledged that Putin had said all the right things and now what was needed was to have him be as good as his word.
It should not be forgotten that the Abbott government is in deep trouble, having brought down a disastrous budget that the public rightly regards as unfair.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/did-abbott-believe-he-had-his-twintowers-moment-with-airliners-shooting-down-20140726-zw9em.html#ixzz38g6tEC4h