Cost of Deployment
Australia's involvement in the Iraq war is estimated to cost over 400 million a year. Well..there goes increases to pensions..bring on cuts to education, health care etc...
SD ... Well we have one scholar ...
Shaggy Dog:
Dictionary meaning of a scholar " a person who has studied a subject for a very long time and knows a lot about it" As you have on Australian history. Although I don't put any labels on myself..some might consider me one too judging from my line of study and how long I have undertaken it. What I do know is that it does not matter how much one thinks they know, they must not be blind sided by that, but to continue learning. This is why my last thesis was on the benefits of lifelong learning. Lifelong meaning until the grave.
As for being Patrician..I am pretty certain none exist on this forum (including myself) since I have no aristocratic blood coursing through my veins.
Have a great day!
Fleur,
I don't claim to be anything very much.
Scholar ? Not even that. I just get involved with things that interest and/or intrigue me, and there is much that does.
I like people, they interest me, there are living gems out there in the most unlikely people and places. Getting them to tell their stories is a pleasant way to pass the time and one can learn so much.
No, just a very ordinary bloke who has bumbled and blundered his way through life without too much damage to others along the way. Hopefully anyway.
Take it easy.
SD
Shaggy: it's not for you or I to judge how others see us..it's all in the eye of the beholder. Like you..my friends are people who intrigue me and from whom I can learn..since childhood I might add. One doesn't have to go to a place of higher learning or read great philosophical books to be deemed learned.
Some of my best education came not from my university lecturers but from Aboriginal elders whom I have had the honour of meeting awhile back, from elders of other cultural groups and amazingly from children. I even learn something here on YLC!
Shaggy Dog, I like you ; ))
Twila...I have always been more than fully capable of speaking for myself. I certainly don't need you to explain to Pete what I meant. Can't resist getting into others' business can you..is that how you were taught at the Sydney Institute...if so then I recommend you pursue the rest of your education perhaps through the U3A!!!
You will notice that I try to avoid exchanges with you since I consider them a complete waste of time...as this is a public forum I can't prevent you from addressing me, but please refrain from the yente attitude of attempting to explain to others the meaning of my words. If I address you specifically then that's a different story. Stop the twisting..at least try..try..try.
Both Marx and Freud believed past experience had to be examined and corrected in line with "correct thought." . There is no tolerance of foibles or deviation in all walks of life. The opposite of libertarian values which value the individual over "Society" .
"Learn to love yourself "quote by the leaned pleb Pete
IMO both Freud and Marx are aberrations in western thought to trend to Individulism . They have both been left behind .
In case anyone is interested here is a link to the University of the Third Age: www.u3a.org.au. An excellent organisation for further learning.. having been an intermittent tutor there in the early years, I can fully recommend it.
It's completely informal and you can learn at your own pace with no exams to take. People who find themselves without peers to discuss topics would consider this organisation invaluable.
Why have a organisation for education aimed at the elderly . Why are their needs any different .
I have found my interests are eclectic and have no need for learning to earn a living . Google is my univercity for life . I can chase any passing interest ..and find the experts in any area immediately..,
But do you get anyone to discuss them with?? No..I think not.. instead you try to force feed everyone with endless copy and paste on the forum. Sometimes people need other humans to bounce ideas off and that is the crux of learning..even for the elderly. Anyway, like Shaggy I have things to tend to. Think about the U3A and some of your forum buddies might find it of interest too. There are online courses available also. Have a nice day.
Fleur,
The Sydney Institute is not a university, but is a privately funded not-for-profit current affairs forum encouraging debate and discussion. The Institute is genuinely pluralist and a wide and diverse range of views are heard at its forums. In 2010 both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott addressed the Institute. The institute also have a media watch program.
Pete,
The University of the Third Age is not a university. They accept people from any level of education (who should not have problems with learning any subject offered); there are no exams. The subjects are usually of general interest - history topics, or writing, geneaology, botany, etc... there are even get-to-gethers for such as Mahjong, etc. The subjects generally last a term/semester.
U3As are certainly a boon for seniors to want to take on something new.
There are many U3As throughout Australia and similar bodies elsewhere. There is also a U3A online: www.u3aonline.org.au. A general look will show the type of subjects and level of study required. Here, the students can study either independently or engage with a tutor. Again most subjects would be of 12 or so lessons. U3As charge a small fee.
The WEA has far a more rigorous program, even with intensive language courses which last a year. Fees are appropropriate.
Then if one really wants to engage with courses online at university level there are MOOCs (Massive Open Online Courses), and these are free. Courses are rigorous and range from sciences to the arts and beyond. There has been debate whether these programs will eventually replace courses on university campus. Currently, most courses provide a certificate of completion, however, not degree qualifications. The certificate of completion is provided when exams online are satisfactorily completed.
Universities worldwide, including top universities, such as Harvard, ... and also here in Australia provide platforms/initiatives/courses. There are no entry requirements other than access to the internet.
Less than 10% of MOOC takers complete their program, but nevertheless benefit learners in many, many ways.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2014/09/16/moocs-finishing-is-not-the-important-part/
I think these are a wonderful innovation for democratising learning. Learning should be available to all who wish it, and who are capable, irrespective of background.
A very wise person once said that learning is very humbling.
The more one learns, the more one realises how very little one knows.
Did I not cover U3A in my post above and didn't the link I provided enough..why the need to repeat all that?
Twila,
I have to say I do find Gerard H from the Sydney Thingo rather tiresome when he appears on Insiders.
I am prone to wander off when he is one of the guests.
Ref your last comment. It disappoints me at times just how little I do know, and more importantly, how little I use of what I do know.
Take it easy.
SD
SD,
I also think that a little exploration into one area generally, well always, explodes into other areas ... One finds a single topic/subject becoming multi-disciplinary.
This is one of the great joys of learning ... the unexpected byways.
Learning ... studying ... is very humbling.
Whilst understandable, I think many people identify with your feelings; but don't be disappointed ...
At least you know you are not fossilized in your ideas and knowledge. That would be akin to death.
Pete,
As the world population increases, especially so in cities, individualism will be a luxury available to very few.
You enjoy it as many of those coming up behind will not be so fortunate.
SD
Individulism a luxury ?
The majority have always lived in cities it is the most efficient use of resources.
The internet which is in its infancy is the greatest leap for Individulism since the invention of the printing press.
Populalltion will decrease as it is already doing in developed countries ..
Those who live in low population areas for life style reasons are subsidised by those living in high density areas .
Pete,
I am afraid I do not see sitting in front of a PC screen chatting as individualism.
Far from it.
Really gotta go.
Take it easy
SD
Perhaps when you have more time we could discuss via our screens ..
Pete,
"The internet which is in its infancy is the greatest leap for Individulism since the invention of the printing press."
Possibly only for those already of some independent thought ...
No ... that is too much of a generalisation. Some may be committed ideologues, but with the benefits of the internet become more of individual mind.
Then there are those who are easily swayed, become committed to an ideology, then seem to lose all power of critical thought. They bend their knee in obesience to their whatever their "leader" says/does. I suppose this is the ultimate in laziness of mind. Letting others think for them. Similarly, unthinking sychophants.
Fleur,
Most of my work gets scrutinised with an intense scrute and always has done.
All the technical publications and such like over the years was subject to the eagle eye of CASA.
My current work has to get past those with a literary bent who can be rather unkind, even brutish, to such a tender and fragile flower like myself.
That said I had better get my working gogs on and do some work.
Take it easy.
SD
I told you Solly it was all a Jewish plot to enslave the workers . The two most dangerouse attacks on Individulism were from Marx and Freud both Jewish ..,
Moocs neatly make my point about the internet being a great libertarian force..
Pete,
I note Libertarians group together in societies and parties to promote their thinking and values.
That appears to be at odds with individualism.
Just a passing thought.
SD
SD,
But isn't that the nature of all ideologies.
Wasn't there a call sometime ago: "Anarchists Unite!" :-)
I don't see your point Twilsy...
Just joking, Pete. Just joking. Obviously not a very good one.
Perhaps I am more of a minarchist .,
Pete: Did you mean to say masochist or monarchist?
Neither I meant what I said ..
Pete,
Thank you for this. I had not heard of minarchism before. Interesting ...
Minarchism (also known as minimal statism) is a political philosophy. It is variously defined by sources. In the strictest sense, it holds that states ought to exist (as opposed to anarchy), that their only legitimate function is the protection of individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud, and that the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts. In the broadest sense, it also includes fire departments, prisons, the executive, and legislatures as legitimate government functions. Such states are generally called night-watchman states.
Minarchists argue that the state has no authority to use its monopoly of force to interfere with free transactions between people, and see the state's sole responsibility as ensuring that contracts between private individuals and property are protected, through a system of law courts and enforcement. Minarchists generally believe alaissez-faire approach to the economy is most likely to lead to economic prosperity.
(wiki)
Thank you for that Pete..I have not come across that word before. So we do learn from each other..
Only those with a inquiring mind.
Pete,
Wishful thinking at best.
I think it best you find an island all to yourself that way you may get a result of some sort.
Most of the population, rich and poor, want all the bells and whistles associated with government and most governments are happy to provide, that being the nature of governments. Strings attached of course.
You need a flag to rally those of similar thinking about you.
Some on this forum are trying to get rid of one. You might get it quite cheaply.
Take it easy.
SD
Oh I don't know I see the Scottish referendum as people wanting less central govt , if we think it is good for 5m people wanting to make decisions for themselves no matter what they decide . It would suggest England should desollve decisions to twenty administrative zones .
And as I have said before Audtrslia should desolve to competitive states with minimum federal govt
Interesting concept that pete espouses. No subsidies for the miners then or in fact any industry. No tarriffs of any kind as that would interfere with market forces. Are taxes endorsed or are they too to be removed ? Seems like a belief only old men would endorse or young fools. I doubt it would appeal to women as they tend to have a broader understanding of human nature.
Could be a book or two for an aspiring Dickens like author but in the world envisaged by pete no publisher would take it on. The oligarchy would forbid it and thats what petes world would be.
To repeat myself pete lacks empathy for his fellow humans. So does that mean he is no longer the conservative he claimed or a conservative libertarian minarchist. Maybe just a person who likes labels.
I find it odd that people have to have tags to live by. A set of rules is probably ok if they are sensible. But I would prefer not to have a set idealogy but rather judge each situation on it's merits.
That is why (in order to seem to be on topic) I am against this country going to war in another country that has not attacked or invaded us.
Gerry,
With all due respect.
If we have been attacked or invaded, we would already be in a very dire situation.
I don't think you have really thought this through.
I read where bill shorten and the PM led our troops in singing "Onwards Christian Soldiers"
Followed by Jerusalem . I love the last night of the poms sorry proms...
If you're going to be ruled by anyone, it might as well be by the bravest and brightest. Long live the Jewish conspiracy.
Damn I left my copy of 'The protocols of the elders of Zion' in the Roller.
Sell it and buy a Chinese Cheri.
Give the rest to a good Jewish investment manager to look after they money for you.
Or spend it and bludge on welfare like some of leftist loonies on this forum
Twila, I would be interested to know what you mean when you say I have not thought this through.
I usually respect your thoughts while not always agreeing with them, but I feel when you say something you say it from the heart.
I appreciate that.
When I say something I say what I feel. Unlike some others I do not say what a political party suggests I should say. In saying that I mean that Australia should not be going to war irregardless of what Tony Abbott or Bill Shorten says.
Unfortunately some recent posts on this topic have deteriorated into inane chatter. Maybe alcohol is at work.
Irregardless that irregardless is not a word, you shouldn't be so up yourself.
After so many year of living you take your self so irregardlessly serious.
Try not to be the complete idiot all the time aquatrek
You first Gerriatric, irregardless of me
Uummm..... unless the compilers of my tatty old coverless Macquarie dictionary are wrong believe 'irregardless' is a word...a combination of the words 'irrespective and regardless' as I understand it....
Anyway give it a google/wiki it if you're interested.......
English is an ever changing language and is as much about acceptance as correctness.
SD
Well said SD :)
That about sums it up.
Gerry,
Thank you for your kind words and I do appreciate your point of view. I am not necessarily contesting it, but provide some information for further consideration.
Perhaps others more informed about this than I am, would like to make comment also.
I understand that Obama has sworn no "boots on the ground". The US will bomb IS from the air. Local militias and Kurds will be supplied with arms and they, and they alone, will be confronting IS.
Neither will other foreign troops, eg, Australian, Canadian, etc. be fighting on the ground. None of these troops will be involved in inflitration of IS areas, hand-to-hand combat, seizing territory nor the arrest and trial of IS leaders.
Criticism has been levelled at Obama, Tony Abbott, David Cameron and Canada's foreign affairs minister, leaders who have all stated that IS is the greatest struggle and challenge to the values of, and the Western world.
"(IS) is the most serious threat the Western world faces right now" (David Cameron)
Yet, defending the values of the Western world will be left to "the messy business of hand-to-hand combat by ill-trained, over-stretched Kurds...
"The West won't be doing much beyond dropping a few bombs, arming a few local militias and hoping for the best."
Irregardless is most certainly a word..been around for over a century and can be found in all dictionaries.
"Fertummelt" is also a word.
as is "aa"
I like the ABC, not that I watch too much TV. The radio stays on Classic FM.
If I think about it the preference possibly comes from exposure to the ABC in my earlier years when there was little else around in the areas I lived in.
It was a trusted source of information and entertainment and still is as compared to what I have seen on the occasional forays into the world of commercial TV.
Patrician no, my mongrel background would preclude me from the ranks of those so ordained.
Take it easy.
SD