$4.6 billion NBN blowout

The National Broadband Network project will cost an additional $4.6 billion to build and operate.

$4.6 billion NBN blowout

The Federal Government owned NBN Co yesterday announced that the National Broadband Network (NBN) project will cost an additional $4.6 billion to build and operate.

While the project may be over budget, according to an updated corporate plan, NBN Co is on target with their rollouts. A total of 92,000 premises are expected to be customers by mid-2013 and around 500,000 by mid-2014.

This information differs greatly from NBN Co's December 2010 corporate plan which forecast 419,000 premises connected by mid-2013. This decrease in total customers would make it easier for an incoming Coalition Government to scale back the project. Communications Minister Senator Stephen Conroy has blamed the new forecast on a nine-month delay in getting access to Telstra’s detailed network information, which held up the volume rollout.

Read more from the Brisbane Times.
Find out when you can expect the NBN to be installed in your area.
Read more about the NBN up-take rate.

Comment - NBN essential for Australian advancement

Australia is several years behind the technological world leaders in terms of broadband and wireless services. If a Tony Abbott-led Coalition government gains power at the next Federal Election, we could be pushed even further behind.

If NBN Co had been able to deliver on their expected 419,000 customers by the middle of 2013, it would have been almost impossible for a Coalition government to tinker with the overall strategy of the NBN but, with the revised forecast of 92,000 customers, it is more likely than not that the Coalition will deliver on their promise to scale back the project.

In the past three Federal Elections my vote has gone to the Coalition as I have believed in the policies being put forward. If the Coalition government continue with their policy of scrapping the NBN and implementing their alternative broadband plan expected to cost 15% of the price and provide a scaled down version − most likely I will be changing my vote to a different party.

The NBN is one of the most important pieces of party policy of the past decade in terms of growing the Australian economy. Faster internet services will not only open Australia up to the world, it will provide a better quality of life for Australians throughout the country through essential services (telehealth and ehealth) which may not have been possible to provide.

The mining boom won’t last forever. Australia needs to cement itself as a technology power house and the NBN is one step on the way to achieving this.

Do you think the NBN is a waste of money? Will you reconsider voting for the Coalition at the next election if they forge ahead with their alternative broadband plan policy?

Read about the Coalition’s alternative broadband plan.





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    jennyya
    9th Aug 2012
    12:56pm
    oH PLEASE!!!!! This site is so labor orientated I have to take breath!! I won't reconsider voting for the Coalition - I WILL vote for the Coalition so that we can have some sanity once more. Hopefully all the money won't be gone and Australia on the trash heap. before the next election. You know, it really is poor when the labor party, State or Federal, when they are eventually voted out they leave such a mess behind. It takes years for the Coalition to get back on line and people hate them for it. Look at Greece, look at the riots in England, if you don't believe me. The govt has been told that once the NBN is up and running we sill still be far behind the rest of world. This govt is the worst we have ever had in our political history.
    Drew
    9th Aug 2012
    1:19pm
    Hi Jennyya,

    Among our writing staff we have one Coalition, one Labor and three undecided voters.

    The NBN is a good step forward. I don't think anyone will debate the fact that by the time it has finished being deployed to the final rural areas of Australia it will be 'a step behind' the world leaders, but you have to remember that the majority of the country will have been on the system for at least two years and there is currently no better alternative to the system being put in place. In this case, you have to spend money to make money and the business model is sustainable and profitable.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    2:45pm
    Drew - pls dont blatantly lie - the home takeup numbers are less than expected - ADD TO THAT THE $4.6 (+) BILLION blowout - will that get just cleverly 'balanced' by the worlds second greatest treasurer and Mr Conroy with some clever $$ juggling ? Ooooops - there goes that surplus battle cry out the proverbial window again again again.
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    3:24pm
    In reply to aquatrek, when the telephone network was first rolled out, home takeup numbers were also low. I remember that, when I was a kid, not many people had a home telephone. The same was true when mobile phones first came out. Only tradesmen or salesmen had them at first. Remember that, where the NBN has been rolled out, the copper network will be removed after 18 months so Telstra customers will be moved to the NBN, if they want a fixed phone line at all. I am confident that, as the NBN is progressively rolled out, takeup rates will improve dramatically.
    As for the 4.6 billion increase in the cost of the network and operational expenses, there are good reasons for that (http://www.zdnet.com/nbn-co-tips-increased-costs-6-month-delay-7000002310/) such as the ACCC requirement to go to 121 POI instead of the original 14. The cost of the project is now $37.4B, still less than the original $43B estimated when the NBN was first announced.
    As for the budget surplus, the NBN is an investment, strictly off-budget, so any expenditure on it will not affect the budget at all. This investment is currently expected to return 7.1% p.a. to the government.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    3:32pm
    That's alright jennyya, our national corporate owned media owned by the wealthy elite are totally LIBERAL orientated. Do you think that equalises things a bit.

    You are so used to the anti Labor campaign by our corporate owned media (which you obviously believe, without any regard to rational thought or intellectual analysis) that you think that if anyone says anything (even if the truth) about Liberals, it is biased.

    I don't even vote Labor and I find your political diatribe abusive and out of order - we are discussing NBN - the Libs plan to put a tower on every block so that we can have Wi-Fi which will not even work then because of technical Wi-Fi difficulties. It will cost MORE and will not work in the country for obvious reasons.

    Unbelievable......
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    3:44pm
    Ozimarco - strictly off-budget is why Oz is borrowing every day every hour every minute of the Oz citizens lives. It will be your kids that will be paying it off - if ever able to - just pray to your god that the world does not go into recession when the PIGS go under. It is called a high fiscal risk stratagem.
    Mussitate - outback regional are best serviced by those thingy things flying around way way above your head - satellites. If Wi-Fi is so useless then I must be the luckiest guy on the block - seems to work pretty darn well for me at home and all of the other wireless modems that I can see 'out there'. I doubt that you are IT qualified/experienced as I but I will be very glad to give you private technology lessons - for a small 'low risk' investment fee of course.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    4:06pm
    AQUATREK, contrary to your comments, you have displayed that you know very little about the internet or IT.

    Wi-Fi (an Australian government invention - CSIRO) operates INSIDE your home/building. The internet comes from a hard wired connection (phone line/ADSL/Broadband), then.....yes, then if you so choose, Wi-Fi transmits to all your devices.

    Wi-Fi is great but at great distances, there is a problem and if everyone is using Wi-Fi all over Australia you would need towers on every suburban block and STILL there would be issues because of the numbers involved!!!! It would also cost MORE than the current NBN proposal.

    As to borrowing.....duh....that is what businesses do. They borrow to invest in infrastructure, to ensure that their business is successful in the future. Australia is doing the same.

    The NBN is good for Australia and Australia's future.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    4:21pm
    oh dear Mussitate - I was employed from 1968 through to 2000 in many IT installations around the planet including commercial and large government culminating with the Sydney 2000 Olympics. I have a Cert III in web page, a Cert IV in IT training, a MCSE [Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer]. YOU ? For the sake of simplicity I have referred to Wi-Fi as a home based system yet even I can 'see' electronically other wireless services in the area so dont give me that nonsense about Wi-Fi wont work - a tower on every street block etc etc How do you get high definition digital and internet services via a smart system TV set ? Well, let me upgrade your poor technical knowledge base. It is done via electromagnetic bandwidths through the atmosphere - from antennae to antennae - works bloodywell perfectly. Surprised ?
    Pimel
    9th Aug 2012
    1:03pm
    My beloved fellow Australian Citizens as I have pointed out in the past comments, the government will do anything to stay in power and on the surface it appears as though the government is doing the best thing for the people of Australia < Bull####> think about it, we all have that grey stuff between our ears, to decide what we want and what is advantageous to us as Tax paying Citizen's and Pensioners. There will more than likely be another Tax ripoff implemented by Julia Gillard and her political cronies to make up the deficit.
    You decide what is right and fair for YOU!!!!
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    3:46pm
    If you found Australian Citizens beloved you would not treat us to a diatribe of ....... (I am too polite) nor would you wish to force us and our children to put up with substandard internet. We are a wealthy country, INFRASTRUCTURE is absolutely essential - would you rather the money sit in a bank doing nothing for Australian's - that my friend is NOT good business.

    There is a political section for people who wish to express their political views, whether tunnelled or not.

    We are supposed to be discussing the advantages of the NBN to Australia to secure our future! Why condemn us to a VERY costly (more than NBN in the long run) Wi-Fi system proposed by Mr Abbott which would require a tower on every block and additionally, would not work, due to technical issues and would be owned by private profit making corporations! Goodness, everyone complains about wind power towers in the country, what would our country areas look like if there was a Wi-Fi tower every suburban block.
    Pass the Ductape
    9th Aug 2012
    1:04pm
    Only 4.6 million over-budget? Wait until the real bill comes through! It's more likely to be 10 billion over-budget before it's finished..... And twenty billion if Garrett gets on board.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    3:49pm
    We are a wealthy country and we need to secure our future.....this expenditure is for AUSTRALIA. The internet is an essential component of our kids future. Surely you do not want to see us relegate this country to second class!!!!!
    Boof
    9th Aug 2012
    1:12pm
    I think that we (Australia) really need it. I see that in America, that surgeons do operations from hundreds of miles away via the internet. (N.B.B.).With an apprentice surgeon following the seniors' instructions. That's one good thing. It's like our roads, in a way. We have many more and longer ones than lots of smaller countries, so it is with N.B.B. fibre thingo, being laid. Of course the PRIVATE Co.s who are doing the work, would not take advantage of the Governments good will and bonuses, I'm sure.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    4:08pm
    Touche! At last someone who is not political but is looking at the real issues.

    Thank you, I was beginning to think that our corporate owned media had brainwashed everyone!
    Pimel
    9th Aug 2012
    1:16pm
    i agree with you Boof but why does it always have to come out of our pockets don't we pay enough taxes.
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    3:32pm
    Look at it as buying an investment property. You borrow money from the bank, build your property, then you rent it out. You are earning 7.1% on your investment. The difference with the NBN is that, apart from the 7.1% return, you are benefitting the nation as a whole due to efficiencies in health, education, communication, utilities, etc.
    Boof
    9th Aug 2012
    1:17pm
    Geeze. Besides being a "Dill". I think that Jennyya must wear a blindfold and earmuffs, on her journey through life. She should marry Tony Abbott. It would be like Abbott and Costello, all over again.
    jennyya
    9th Aug 2012
    1:49pm
    All I can say is that you are aptly named, Boof.
    Michael
    9th Aug 2012
    8:34pm
    So what does "jennya" stand for, I don't think the Jen bit is indicative of knowledge, as in Gen!
    justme
    9th Aug 2012
    1:32pm
    It costs too much in bad economic times. It will probably be out of date by the time it's finished.
    The people making the decisions are all on really good money, as opposed to those who are struggling. Todays news - over $$55,000.00 for a couple to comfortably retire - over $40,000.00 for a reasonable retirement - and for a survival retirement (I think) $32,000.00.
    Is there a list of the current money wasters that the coalition will be cancelling.
    And how much will have been wasted.
    If our economy is the envy of the whole world how come our share market is sluggish, our super returns are negligible, and we owe more than Greece.
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    2:06pm
    Are these bad economic times? Really? They may be bad in other parts of the world but surely not here. The shops are full of people spending money, people are still buying cars, going on overseas holidays, buying smartphones and big screen TVs, etc. All our economic indicators are good. Low unemployment, comparatively low debt, AAA rating, healthy banking system, etc. There will always be some people who are struggling, even in the good times. At least, Labor's policies have the intention of sharing wealth whereas the Coalition looks after the haves while ignoring the have-nots.
    The NBN is not a waste of money. It is an investment that will, on current estimates, return 7.1% per year for many years to come. On top of that, it will increase the nation's GDP by an amount that is hard to define exactly but will definitely be significant. The NBN is an investment in our future (health, education, business, entertainment, communication, etc).
    Share markets run on sentiment. They have little to do with the state of our economy. Because of the economic turmoil in Europe and the poor state of affairs in the U.S., there is a lot of doom and gloom about, which depresses the share markets. It does not mean that Australia is in a similar dire situation, although we are affected by it, as you have noticed.
    Every government must be careful not to waste money but it should also not fail to invest in necessary infrastructure needed for its future. The NBN is such an investment. It is absolutely necessary and essential for our future well-being and prosperity.
    slapsy
    9th Aug 2012
    2:33pm
    Well said,ozimarco.It's great to see that there are still some people not being led by the likes of Allan Jones and his cronies.If credit is due it is good to see it given.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    4:25pm
    Nicely put OZIMARCO and SLAPSY - at last!

    I can go and do some work now because you are both out there.

    Oh! I am in an industry that looks at various countries and the looming global recession and in some cases, depression and Australia will be one of the countries that will be in a lot better position than most. We have not handed over government financial responsibility to the private banking sector, nor our Reserve Bank over to private banking cartels.

    Just another point, Australia's median wealth is one of the highest in the world which means that the wealth is spread more evenly than most other countries. To give you a comparison, the USA is only a quarter of Australia's and Sweden is even less than the USA. Interesting isn't it.
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    1:42pm
    I fully agree with Drew that the NBN is an essential infrastructure project for our advancement into the future. Anyone who doesn't understand that either has no vision or is too old to care. I am sure that, once the NBN has been rolled out and we are seeing the benefits of it, we will all agree that it will have been a very worthwhile investment. I think NBNCo is being run very well by Mike Quigley and his team. The extra cost is mainly due to the ACCC insisting on 121 points of interconnect compared to the 14 originally proposed. The delays in starting the rollout proper are due to the lengthy negotiations with Telstra. Any monumental project of this size is going to run into some delays and unforeseen costs. Even with these additional costs, the NBN is still going to cost less than the 43 billion originally mentioned. As long as the Coalition refuses to support the NBN, I am afraid they won't be getting my vote. You just cannot tackle the future with 1950s thinking...
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    2:37pm
    Anyone with half a brain knows that fibre optic into every home is as hairbrained an overkill as one could possibly imagine. By all means connect through hubs/nodes [oops techno speak - sorry I am an IT professional] all commercial centres, unis, schools etc but every dwelling ?? Wireless technologies are far more cost efficient than a very sensitive cable - all cables have a use by date and are subject to accidentally dig ups and stresses whereas wireless antennae can be maintained, upgrade onsite. It all gets down to 'common sense' - Labour had used their full quota up about 10 seconds after they shafted Wilkie.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    4:28pm
    AQUATREK, if we followed your example, we wouldn't even have Wi-Fi - you wouldn't even have let CSIRO develop it because it was 'hairbrained'.

    I also challenge your assertions that you are an IT professional. I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    8:44pm
    I have replied appropriately below - although I doubt that you will find it what with you being so selective in your ability to comprehend reality.
    Pimel
    9th Aug 2012
    1:51pm
    I agree with you justme a lot of people are living in the wonderful world of Oz unfortunately real life is not like that. We are the ones that have to make decisions, and what is beneficial for our Family's and loved ones for their future. If we continue to stick our heads in the sand and ignore everything that takes place around us, we will end up with the Current Government doing it all for us whatever they please at our expense (as always) you know what I mean. I agree we all have to pay for the luxuries of our life style but does it always have to be at the Taxpayers expense C'mon think about it we all have equal rights, none is better or worse for who they are and where they live.
    Watto
    9th Aug 2012
    1:55pm
    I agree wiyh" jennyya" , most articles seem to be a sell job for Labor's hairbrain schemes .
    So we will be without the world's fastest internet when Tony A takes over ...so ???? Do you really want a surgeon operating on your zonked out body from a thousand k's away ? My current broardband is heaps fast enough for me , it is faster than most people's reaction speed .
    I will still argue that by 2021 (which is the new roll out date -standby for more updates on this ) technology will have advanced so fast that wireless will be the new optic fibre .
    On the news that I heard this morning it said that the cost will be 4+ billion over budget (standby for more updates on this rubbery figure also).
    We should not laugh , this "Government" is racking up an enormous debt. As one example , everytime Carr goes overseas he donates 20-40 million to some country . WHERE is this money coming from ? WHERE are the new hospitals for Australians . I give up... I think I will have a Bex and a good lie down !
    davewatto
    9th Aug 2012
    2:02pm
    Dear oh dear, my observations about the political bias on this site were obviously well-founded. Yet another blog knocking Tony Abbott and the Coalition. It really is getting a bit tedious!
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    2:13pm
    How is that different from people knocking Julia Gillard and her government, calling one of the greatest infrastructure projects, comparable to the Snowy Mountains Scheme, the rollout of our copper telephone network, the electricity grid, our roads and railways, a 'hair-brained scheme'? Tedious indeed!
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    4:32pm
    DAVEWATTO
    What!!!!!! the first comment was a totally political attack on Labor and didn't really discuss the NBN with any form of intelligence - unless you count the dribble that Murdoch's corporate owned media dispenses.

    You seem to belong to a bloc of extreme right wingers, trying to spread the word. Like a religious cult.
    davewatto
    9th Aug 2012
    2:10pm
    A follow-up to my previous post...this whole NBN business is totally out of proportion to the effect it will have on the lives of ordinary Australians. Okay, so I will get faster internet services, so what? It is really going to be a lifechanger: And business will still be done, a second or twos delay in sending and receiving information overseas is not going to make or break a deal.
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    2:17pm
    It is not so much about speed as about ubiquity of fast internet. When close to 100% of the population is connected to fast internet, it changes everything, as you will discover if you live long enough. You obviously do not have the imagination, the vision or the foresight to be able to see in your mind's eye how this will change our lives.
    davewatto
    9th Aug 2012
    2:25pm
    Less of the personal attacks please. I happen to have lived a considerable number of years and I would guarantee that I have seen much, much more of the world than you and experienced a whole lot more.
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    3:39pm
    Hi Dave, I am 64, originally from Belgium. By the time I arrived in Australia (I migrated from Malaysia) at the age of 25, I had already travelled the world for several years and had been to 35 countries. I have seen a fair bit of the world.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    2:19pm
    OH GOODY GOODY GOODY - i WILL BE ABLE TO DOWNLOAD PORN AT AN UNBELIEVABLE RATE YEE HAHA !! I lived in Ireland in 1980 - they had underground cable TV - Oz had none. So that is how far behind Oz was then and will always be - fibre optics [an olde technology] into every home - that is if you can afford it - so far a lower than expected count of those who have signed up ??? One of the biggest white elephants ever to be dumped upon the Oz public. The coalition knows it as did several overseas assessments. It wont be long Ju-liar.
    slapsy
    9th Aug 2012
    2:44pm
    You really don't believe the "court jester" will scrap the NBN,do you.He has probably already got a price in mind for when/if he is in a position to sell it.
    Let's hope it is if.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    4:36pm
    AQUATREK if that is what you are into PORN then that is your prerogative.

    As to Ireland and Australia. Sorry but you can hold back a great country because you prefer it to be behind Ireland.

    Surprise, the NBN into your home will cost the same IF NOT CHEAPER than your current system.

    You are a CAN'T DO person. Just leave the CAN DO people, like the CSIRO and others to get on with it, aye.
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    4:45pm
    It's a furphy that an internet connection delivered over the NBN will be more expensive than current prices. A little research will reveal that they are comparable or cheaper than current ADSL2+ prices.
    doclisa
    9th Aug 2012
    2:46pm
    The NBN is much needed infrastructure. We are a wealthy country, lets invest in our future. We do have the dollars. Perhaps it should be a gift to the country from the mining magnates.
    :)
    They have done nothing but steal our minerals.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    4:38pm
    Very nice, doclisa. What a good idea!!!!
    pamelafro
    9th Aug 2012
    2:57pm
    Having travelled in outback Australia, and living and travelling in Europe for the last six months, I must say that Australia is not so far behind with its internet coverage. In Oz, we could get internet connections where-ever there was a town (even one-horse towns) and mobile phone coverage was almost as good although I have an old and very cheap version. In Europe (including Ireland) internet reception was dodgy in most places and SLOW. Additionally, our mobile phone, bought in England, was next to useless in its coverage and performance. However, as people rely more and more on the internet (and we will be forced to, whether we like it or not) an efficient and speedy service is essential, and Australia will need to keep up with technology.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    2:59pm
    The very clear analogy of Labour failure within the IT realm is the promise to have a computer on every school desk - yeh I know a bit off topic - but what I am saying is that from a technological aspect Labour have their heads somewhere out past Pluto = empty space [except for the 'god particle or two]. For a start a carbon tax that will not contribute 0.00001% to reducing the worlds green house gas emissions. School computers that were useless before they were delivered. And now an overkill with olde technology for a service that most households use as part of their daily lives but do not whinge about ever since broadband went out on infrastructure that already exists - copper. Mistakes, errors, bad judgements, incompetence running amok - the Oz public have already decided - it wont be long Ju-liar.
    Lingaus
    9th Aug 2012
    3:05pm
    What about penalty clauses in contracts, or are they waived for sufficiently healthy backhanders? Should have given the job to the Chinese - if you don't finish the job on time and within budget you get shot.
    Oldie@83
    9th Aug 2012
    3:23pm
    This has nothing to do with Internet connections. I enjoy reading views on many subjects through the pages of 'Your Life Choices' This address below, I have in my Bookmark list. Perhaps it would be of interest to you? It is a subject mentioned on many forums.
    http://www4.gu.edu.au/ext/civics/cv02/mod02/cv02m02t01.htm#hca
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    3:30pm
    Then why post it on here ? All hypothetical interesting stuff indeed but without a pheasants revolt nothing will ever change.
    Michael
    9th Aug 2012
    8:43pm
    I have yet to see a revolting pheasant! Lets get back to the original blog!
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    4:06pm
    What many people fail to realise is that the NBN is not being built to cater for our present day needs but for our future needs. Technology is moving at an incredible pace. Every aspect of our life will have some connection to the online world. We can ignore these developments but it will be at our peril. The rest of the world may be far away but they are not standing still. Do we really want to be left behind and miss out on the opportunities that this ubiquitous fibre network will bring?
    Michael
    9th Aug 2012
    8:44pm
    Hear, hear, sensible non political argument.
    Huskie
    9th Aug 2012
    4:07pm
    The NBN is essential to the development of Australia and way past its due date.
    If we only worry about the cost the Snowy Scheme would never have been finished, the Sydney Harbour Bridge not built, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane airports not finished.
    They all went over budget and over schedule.

    There times when you have to spend money to make money in the future
    smithjj
    9th Aug 2012
    4:33pm
    Pheasants may be revolting, but not us phartridges.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    4:45pm
    what a breath of fresh air you are smithjj [I am also a smithy hehe] We could always drop back a notch to pigeon power hahahahahahahahaha - a coop [coup hehe] in every backyard !!!
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    6:59pm
    ha ha ha!! smithjj what aquatrek said did look wrong, thanks for alerting me to why! and aren't all we oldies phartriges!
    Pimel
    9th Aug 2012
    4:45pm
    You people just don't get it do, you listen to yourselves Julia Gillard has you wrapped around her little finger. She is manipulating the Australian Citizen and thinks were all under educated and Bloody stupid and have no future unless you succumb to the governments demands and their future vision for Australia however misguided that me be.She by her own admission confesses to the fact that she is an Atheist God help us all where that confession will lead to. We have a God Almighty who watches over us listen to him, not Julia Gillard!!!!
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    4:47pm
    Does he/she/they/them have an NBN plan ? Bloody first time I would have heard about it - so why is it a secret ?
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    4:52pm
    Your religious bias is not showing at all, LOL... We are talking about the NBN here, not religion...
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    5:00pm
    Pimel
    Ah...I see you dislike her intensely and irrationally because she is Atheist. That means you dislike about 30% of Australians and that is simply NOT nice. How do you feel about Agnostics?

    er....back to the NBN
    Michael
    9th Aug 2012
    8:50pm
    Mussitate, talking of agnostics, did you hear of the dislexic agnostic that suffered with insomnia and lay awake wondering if there really was a dog!

    9th Aug 2012
    4:54pm
    Like CSIRO's investment and invention of Wi-Fi (used world wide and funding CSIRO with it's royalties) - the NBN is giving Australia a better future.

    Australia is using taxpayers money FOR the benefit of taxpayers and this country as a whole. That is what you pay taxes for.

    It is a sound business investment for Australia and for all Australians.

    Do not believe the rubbish media dished up by Murdoch. Murdoch is not Australian, he is an American citizen with allegiances to the USA Republican Party and we have this person, telling us what to do and what to think!!!! Look at the state of the US right now, after the likes of Murdoch and his cronies have had freedom to do what they want. An elite few are even more wealthy, general decline in all infrastructure, low standard of living for the average or median American, little or no services to taxpayers (public facilities, such as libraries, pools), no medical or dental assistance, poverty and serious drug and gun problems.

    We do not want this for Australia.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    5:15pm
    oh dear Mussitate - seeing as how you may have missed this response way way back at the first postings and derided my 'apparent' lack of IT knowledge I have thoughtfully and kindly brought it forward for you to contemplate:
    I was employed from 1968 through to 2000 in many IT installations around the planet including commercial and large government culminating with the Sydney 2000 Olympics. I have a Cert III in web page, a Cert IV in IT training, a MCSE [Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer] and 30+ years of experience in IT. YOU ?
    For the sake of simplicity I have referred to Wi-Fi as a home based system yet even I can 'see' electronically other wireless services in the area so dont give me that nonsense about Wi-Fi wont work - a tower on every street block etc etc
    How do you get high definition digital and internet services via a smart system TV set ? Well, let me upgrade your poor technical knowledge base. It is done via electromagnetic bandwidths through the atmosphere - from antennae to antennae - works bloodywell perfectly. Surprised ?
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    6:11pm
    darn - I left out the current 2G/3G/4G handheld little thingumagiggy things that even you would recognize [I hope] - I think that they are called mobile phones down in the southern hemisphere and cells elsewhere. Lets connect them all up via fibre optic cable shall we ? Oh No - that would be a silly silly silly idea indeed wouldnt you agree ? Lets just improve, build upon, update, expand the WIRELESS services so that all Oz citizens can enjoy and benefit from technology.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    6:48pm
    double darn - I keep putting myself down down - a Masters in Science last year.
    Pimel
    9th Aug 2012
    5:14pm
    This is the whole problem with world of today not just our country as important that maybe because we reside here, but our reluctance and complacency to our Heavenly Father and his wisdom and guidance, we will never go anywhere except further away from the truth.And into the Age of Lawlessness and further into the worlds self destruction I understand ozimarco's opinion regarding Religion. I am not a Religuous fanatic nor am I a fool not to realize what I believe and who I believe in wand why are on this Earth think about it whoever you are and where you live.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    5:19pm
    Dear Pimel - Drew [the moderator] has removed religious rantings and I would hate for you to suffer the same fate - so what is your view on the benefits of the NBN rollout despite its 'white elephant' impact upon the good citizens of Oz and now the off-budget 'justification' for its blowout of $4.6 BILLION ?
    telstra1
    9th Aug 2012
    6:33pm
    first things first..spend the money on the health system. its collapsing around us. feed and house the homeless. fix the things that are wrong with this country, then lets worry about the internet and speed. if you want high speed now, buy it. all the comms companys will sell it to you.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    6:41pm
    try telling that to Ju-liar, Conroy, Shorten, Swan and Co. plus the Greens and those wildcard so called 'independants' - it wont be long Ju-liar and company.
    Michael
    9th Aug 2012
    8:54pm
    Aquatrek----can you really walk on water too?
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    9:03pm
    yes but that is a religious topic and I cant discuss it on here - thanks for asking though
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    9:10pm
    Well said Michael and nice come back aquatrek. Both made me smile.

    9th Aug 2012
    7:03pm
    My brain hurts.. too much diverse information. I'm not presuming that we'll have all the benefits of NBN in my lifetime. That'll do for me.
    textappa
    10th Aug 2012
    1:30am
    Took the words out of my mouth Pip, Cheers. :-))
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    8:35pm
    hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm all the commies on here must reside in the same retirement village and have been sent to their rooms - maybe if any of them make it through the long night ahead they will respond to some realities without falling out of their walking frames - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Larry-Pickering/236991276355038 - Is Our PM a Crook ?
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    9:05pm
    Wow....you do have some problems. It has now been proven that State Capitalism (what you call Communism) and Corporate Capitalism, doesn't work. Both systems seem to be dead in the water.

    So what is this about Commies!?! That's an age old fling away line to put down anyone that makes sense and doesn't agree with ultra right wing stupidity.

    Get a grip.....
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    9:11pm
    geeeeez louise - they let you out and its so late - is it meds topup time hahaha
    I see no comment re my credentials and nothing about yours either - what, you have not the curtesy to reply ? You asked me and in quite an arrogant bullish manner so I do understand you - ignorance is bliss. I hope Drew deletes this.
    Anonymous
    9th Aug 2012
    9:37pm
    aquatrek

    You certainly do not have any social skills. See below for an extended response to your so called qualifications.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    10:15pm
    apparently you dont have any credentials in anything so your remarks are not worth the effort that you put into making them - my qualifications and industry experience and knowledge are real far dinkum hard won and earned and far outweigh your illiterate ramblings - you wouldnt understand any of the technical terms used on Whirlpool so wouldnt know your technical arse from your elbow. have a good sleep on it and a better life
    ozimarco
    9th Aug 2012
    9:26pm
    Anyone seriously interested in the pros and cons of the NBN should go to the NBN Whirlpool forum (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/142). I recommend the 'Coalition NBN position' and 'Fighting the NBN FUD' threads. Unfortunately, many people who make comments about the NBN are quite uninformed about it. Reading the above forum may help overcome some of the misconceptions put forward on this discussion page.

    9th Aug 2012
    10:45pm
    aquatrek
    I think you are full of it and don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. Going on what you have been saying about NBN and Wi-Fi ONLY, I would say that your qualifications belong in the dark ages or don't exist.
    FTTP which I am sure you know (LOL) means 'fibre to the premises' which is a combination of FTTH (home) and FTTB (building), is faster, more bandwidth, more secure, no visible infrastructure, unlikely to get congested, 'maybe' more expensive, 'maybe' slower to build than Wi-Fi. Wi-fi has limited bandwidth, limited speeds, visible infrastructure, not easily upgradable, 'maybe' cheaper to build, 'maybe' quicker to build, can get congested.

    FTTP is easily upgradable 'at the home' to deal with local Wi-Fi improvements (eg faster Wi-Fi in the future). To upgrade with a FTTP the end user would purchase the required technology that attaches to the already fast fibre, with a WiFi network, the whole infrastructure would need to be upgraded. FTTP technology has a longer life (Wi-Fi might be outdated in three years).

    4G is future technology and is faster than Wi-Fi but has limited bandwidth, can get congested, and has less visible infrastructure than Wi-Fi.

    Even the Coalition has stated that it will not be doing the WiFi route anymore! Apparently, they will simply be using the CHEAPER - FTTN which I am sure you will know is Fibre to the Node. This means that the Fibre is terminated in a street cabinet up to several kilometres away from the customer premises, with the final connection being copper.

    You can see a visual chart of the differences in FTTN, FTTC, FTTB, & FTTH. With FTTN "The speeds of Fibre optic and copper cables are both limited by length, but copper is much more sharply limited in this respect" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_x

    With the internet just about all information, is to hand, you simply need to look for it. The above is a VERY condensed analysis.

    The bottom line is that EVEN the coalition has realised that their hairbrained proposal to put Wi-Fi in, instead of NBN was simply SILLY and have now selected a cheaper and less efficient shadow system of NBN. Yet you AQUATREK with all your qualifications are still proclaiming Wi-Fi as a viable alternative.
    If you are a super qualified IT professional today.... what will you be tomorrow.... a nuclear physicist?
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    11:18pm
    You yet again behave like all of the NBN and Labour diehards with a 'maybe' here and a 'maybe' there [1st paragraph]. Conroy is now blaming Telstra for slow release of infrastructure - blame blame blame but no acceptance of reality - Conroy's 'experts' had all the time in the world to produce real project costings and phases - that is what governments are supposed to do - your terms like off-budget are sheer drivel - the fibre optic rollout is overkill and everyone knows it - as for the debate on here I have kept it technically simple instead of texting page after page of detail that non-technos wouldnt have a clue about. So yet again - what are your IT credentials AS YOU SO ELOQUENTLY AND DEBTLY SOCIALLY REQUESTED OF ME ? or are you one of those smart alec Googlers who 'pretend' that they know terminology yet in reality know stuff all.
    aquatrek
    9th Aug 2012
    11:35pm
    now to get back onto topic - if you had bothered to read and comprehend what I said at the beginning where I acknowledged that fibre linking commerce, education, medical etc as a backbone I agree with but it is the $$$$ magnitude of the complete NBN package to start with and that is now blown out and figures announced tonight are larger than the $4.6 BILLION announced yesterday. Labour will blame everyone but their own incompetence at mega scale projects - just like the pink bats scheme - people died. The track record is woeful. The coalition will be yet again as previously they have time after time been forced to clean up the mess and apply rational to what is needed. Labour in Qld was decimated and the Feds are equally doomed - the NBN will be the final nail in the coffin unless the scandal of corruption gets there first. Sleep well because I know that will.
    marron
    10th Aug 2012
    12:12am
    Mussitate, what gives you the right to speak as though no-one else should be allowed an opinion? From the way you 'speak' and YELL you appear to be one of those people who can't see anyone else commenting simply because, YOUR OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS....GUESS WHAT?? IT ISN'T. !!!
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2012
    4:26pm
    marron

    Just jump right in there with heaps of insults, no contribution to the subject matter however.

    Do I have a different opinion to you my dear and you simply don't like it - it appears that way.

    Everyone is allowed to express an opinion here. That is what this blog is all about????

    marron are wonderful crustaceans to eat but not something you would expect to be examined for their intellect.
    marron
    10th Aug 2012
    12:06am
    Did anyone really expect the Federal Government to begin something that would not run into billions of dollars more than what they quoted? Every State Labor Government has run their states into the ground. Bracks and Brumby have caused Victoria to have so many white elephants that have cost millions (some cases billions) of dollars MORE than what was quoted. The famed desalination plant has cost a fortune and is costing us millions a day when NOT in use, and will continue to do so every day. They left our public transport in an enormous mess. One thing they did not do was lose the money they were getting as they left, their big payouts were covered. Julia Gillard and Co. are borrowing millions of dollars EVERY DAY, yet they keep throwing millions of dollars to countries where the ruling 'monsters' are killing thousands of innocent people who can't fight back, or where governments spend their money on huge armies and weapons of war, while their people starve in the thousands/millions. The NBN is only going to be useful to or wanted by 'some' members of the public, not all. Many won't be able to afford to have it connected.Probably 'big business' and hospitals will be better off. It would take too long to list all the 'failures' of Julia Gillard, eg. pink batts, school buildings, laptops which only a few students/schools received, etc.etc. Julia Gillard is simply throwing money around because she knows that they won't be there after the next election, so she is doing a 'Bracks/Brumby' deal and emptying the coffers for incoming government. Are you aware of the 108 survivors of the boat that sank 38 K's from the Indonesian coast yet were taken to Christmas Island. They chartered the Royal Flying Doctors for 3 flights at $120K each to take 8 of the survivors to PERTH, one Afghan person took sick on Christmas Island after the RFDS had done their 3 flights so they chartered 148 seater Boeing737 FROM PERTH to CHRISTMAS ISLAND and back to Perth to take ONE boat person to hospital.....6 hours flying, full crew, 2 passengers (one being a government official) They have just converted an old Army camp for boat people at Northam, a small town 80k east of Perth. Cost $125million to house 300 boat people. They have 2 artificial grass soccer pitches, internet cafe, basketball courts, library, family lounges,plus a 'learn to drive school.' Then they get paid $1200 per fortnight from social services, much more than Australian Pensioners. While many thousands of Australians cannot get hospital treatment unless they go 'on a list' for YEARS......NOT months. Dental treatment is appalling if you are a pensioner, you finally get 'one treatment' and then you go on a list for another year or two, in the meantime the teeth that needed filling are now rotten and causing distress. Tell me where is the fairness in this?? Millions upon millions are wasted by the Federal Labor Government. Have you noticed that most of the promises Julia Gillard makes are for things to be happening when they are certain to be out of Government?
    ozimarco
    10th Aug 2012
    1:42am
    Seriously, marron, what does your rant against the Gillard government have to do with the NBN? By your logic, Labor has stuffed everything else up so therefore the NBN project cannot possibly be delivered successfully. You do realise that the project is being managed by NBNCo and not the government directly. Also, have you ever heard of a project of this size that has not run into delays and cost overruns? I, for one, have full confidence in Mike Quigley and his team of experts in the field. So far, they have done quite an exceptional job in getting this project off the ground, despite a number of difficult hurdles thrown in their path, such as the ACCC requirement for 121 POIs instead of the original 14. Quigley is taking it all in his stride. I have nothing but admiration for the man. Many a lesser person would have long cracked under the pressure.
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2012
    5:18pm
    ozimarco

    Nice, thank you, I actually learned something and I appreciate that.

    marron

    What can I say.....this is not a political blog, there is another section for that. For every thing Labor has done wrong Liberals have done as well. You have detailed Labor 'stuff' only, what about the GST (the tax we would never have) - it cost every Australian (including pensioners) approx. $2000 pa with NO compensation, it caused unparalleled compliance issues and costs, etc. etc. What about Howard (against peoples wishes) making Australia a terrorist target by ILLEGALLY invading Iraq, for no reason other than to appease the USA. Over 600,000 civilians were murdered, with all basic services destroyed, along with infrastructrue - then we have a cheek not to agree to take refugees from this place. Sheeeeez.

    I could go on about Labor too - Proposal for US Nuclear weapons and bases occupying our shores; proposed legislation to require internet providers to hold and supply all our private information and to require all our passwords, bank details, etc. I find both these proposals unacceptable. Although I think Labor runs Australia better financially - Rudd did a great job with the first round of the GFC.

    If you could talk about the NBN without tainting it with political one eyed rhetoric, I would listen more closely.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    5:54pm
    It is good that there is some common ground here as we all know that Howard took Oz to war based on lies, deceit and a kowtowing to the biggest ally - USA. All bar that last bit about Kevin 707. Look at the bloody graph that I supplied you with - look at it - look at it and understand. Labour for the first time in Oz history have actually uttered the word 'surplus' but still have no bloody idea as to what it is !!
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    8:05am
    aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh what a nice rest for the grey matter - let me spell it out simply again without resorting to chunks of technical 'cut & pastes' from other forums:

    Communication pathways for societies are much akin to roads or railways. They are constructed to carry whatever is needed along routes where the highest/density demand exists. Therefore highly concentrated digital communication services are best served with fibre optics. The large international hub cities of the world are connected via trans-ocean fibre optic cables. They cost squillions.

    The future for Oz residential digital services has just started to arrive as the FTA digital rollout continues across the country. Digital transmission to every home carries both TV and internet. What do residences use those digital signals for ? principally entertainment via TV plus whatever services are provided for on the internet. Internet banking, music, movies, images, social networking - all at quite slow speeds. The new generation of 'smart' TV's are just digital signal decoding computers that utilize WIRELESS services. That infrastructure is already in place. Within the home short range expansion of the services is via Wi-FI. No doubt the plethora of apps that are used on the WIRELESS mobile digital networks will appear on the FTA in time.

    The OVERKILL issue with the residential NBN is that the technological concepts are all OLD. They are hard wired/cabled point to point carrier/medium dependent systems. They cost a small fortune to install and maintain and expand. Oz residences, and that would include small businesses like a butcher, never ever needed, now or in the future, a $4+BILLION? fibre optic point-to-point mechanism for their rather simplistic services. That will do.
    Michael
    10th Aug 2012
    8:05am
    Good response, Ozimarco. All political parties could provide a lengthy list of failures, lets not dwell in the past and move forward.
    Abby
    10th Aug 2012
    9:24am
    NBN is a waste of money. By the time they finish rolling it out it will be old technology and each year they proceed there will be yet another blow out if for no othe reason the increase will be from the flow on effect of Carbon Tax.

    Also we will never pay the NBN off - this all on borrowed money for which we have to pay interest. People willl all have to work till the age of 70+

    Yet another finnacial disaster caused by our illustrious govrnment.
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2012
    4:14pm
    That is the point of NBN it is top of the range and will allow for upgrades without a great deal of cost. The other proposals Wi-Fi for instance would be a system that had to be completely overhauled every time newer technology arrives and therefore exactly as you detailed - a waste of time, which is why, thank goodness, the coalition have finally dumped the idea.

    Carbon Tax is a good thing, it makes polluters pay for their mess and we the people get compensated. It also encourages polluters to innovate and find new cleaner technology. It is better than these corporations making billions and then simply leaving the government (that is us, the taxpayer) to clean up their mess. GST was a new tax which cost everyone approx. $2000 pa but we did not get compensated and was not for a good cause other than revenue raising. In comparison the Carbon Tax smells like roses.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    4:20pm
    The OVERKILL issue with the residential NBN is that the technological concepts are all OLD. They are hard wired/cabled point to point carrier/medium dependent systems. They cost a small fortune to install and maintain and expand. Oz residences, and that would include small businesses like a butcher, never ever needed, now or in the future, a $4+BILLION? fibre optic point-to-point mechanism for their rather simplistic services.

    TOP OF THE RANGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 you head is buried so far up ..................
    Abby
    10th Aug 2012
    4:44pm
    Currently I pay $29.95 p/m for my broadband. The cheapest plan in Tasmania where NBN is installed is $49.95 p/m. I have no need for a better system - It will be interesting to see how many pensioners have $20 to spare.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    5:00pm
    Sorry but nope - you are 100% wrong there Abby - even though you may be paying the bills with your hard earned $$$ the pieces of paper that you have in your hand are wrong - well, that is according to Mussitate and ozimarco. Well, they would know wouldnt they ? They follow the Whirlpool forum where all NBN is revealed. Maybe its the GST that you cant comprehend ? Commie w...s.
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2012
    5:23pm
    Abby

    That is the good thing, you DON'T have to change to NBN. You can stay on your dial up if you want. Although most plans will probably be matched by NBN, the one you are on may not be matched. In which case you simply do not swap to NBN.

    So you will not be affected Abby and other people who require more will be happy too. All Good.
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2012
    5:28pm
    aquatrek

    In response to your comment "Commie w...s" I will repeat what I said earlier:

    'It has now been proven that State Capitalism (what you call Communism) and Corporate Capitalism, doesn't work. Both systems seem to be dead in the water.

    So what is this about Commies!?! That's an age old fling away line to put down anyone that makes sense and doesn't agree with ultra right wing stupidity.

    Get a grip.....'

    I will add that comments of this sort are more common in the USA, is that where you reside? We don't give a rat's ar***e about it over here.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    2:35pm
    http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=13864
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    2:48pm
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-budget
    after removing the annoying add
    alter the selection parameters to be Jan 1980 > Jul 2012
    each huge dip is the effect of Labour party policy
    its a wonder that the Coalition keeps dragging us back out again
    a picture tells a thousand words [cant insert it into here though]

    the newspapers and tv should publish this but I have never ever seen it 'out there'

    maybe Drew and co will though ?
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2012
    4:59pm
    Isn't it good that Drew has put this subject before us.

    If you can't discuss anything without being ridiculously political and totally one eyed, to boot, what is the point of discussing anything with you.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    5:31pm
    The website provided above is hardly ridiculously one-eyed political - at times I personally am non-political and have voted for several differing parties since becoming a voter but facts in front of my eyes by accredited sources are my bread and butter. I learnt that the hard way when gaining my academic Masters. Universities do not suffer fools - whether young, olde, black or white. You could do well to emulate that philosophy but seeing as how you have no credentials yet I will let it rest there dear blogging friend.
    slapsy
    10th Aug 2012
    3:25pm
    I think some of you people would be better off going to bed earlier at night.A good nights sleep might help.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    3:39pm
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    4:51pm
    Jennya [1st blog post] you are so so correct in spotting this nest of 'red' vipers - commies crawling out from under the beds in all directions. Its like cockroaches that have become immune to the spray. Mussitate even started lecturing on a political analysis - State Capitalism !! Not here ever ever over my body, mind and soul. The Diggers that have gone before would roll over in their graves and spew. It wont be long Ju-liar and Co.
    Michael
    10th Aug 2012
    5:19pm
    The Diggers fought for freedom of speech and opinion and should be left to rest.
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2012
    5:36pm
    aquatrek

    What you have said here is horrifying.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    5:45pm
    100% incomplete statement and I say that with all due respect as my father fought in WW2 Michael - they also fought for democracy that allows freedom of speech and opinion but that IS being taken away from the Oz citizen. Politburos that dictate events and punish the poor have persisted throughout history. Sheer arrogance, corruption unanswered [see links above], grandiose 'top of the range' projects that fly in the face of common sense [NBN], plans that go horribly awry [pink batts] have become a hallmark of this present living on the 'knife edge' regime. Oz citizens will mark the day that this current fiasco of governance was allowed to occur. The public have already decided - it wont be long Ju-liar and Co.
    Michael
    10th Aug 2012
    5:50pm
    Aquatrek, you really are on the nose---try get your medicine dose better adjusted.
    aquatrek
    10th Aug 2012
    7:33pm
    hallo hallo Mussitate - you do have credentials after all = drama queen !!!!!!!!!!
    Michael
    10th Aug 2012
    10:09pm
    Aqua-trek, that really is "pot calling kettle black"
    marron
    10th Aug 2012
    11:13pm
    i think this column has deteriorated to 'old men' (i don't include you Michael) who like to have the last word with whoever they speak to, they also think their opinion is the only right one.Mussitate has to be rude and personal about people, as I imagine a name like Mussitate can't possibly be his correct name as Marron is not mine. Therefore he knows nothing about me, who I am or what I have done in my professional life of over thirty years, which makes me laugh to myself as if he did know he would be more subtle. When I think about what Mussitate could stand for it makes me laugh even more.
    Michael
    10th Aug 2012
    11:40pm
    Thank you Marron for not including me as an old 'man' (I am actually in my early seventies) however I do sometimes like to have the last word! It is a great shame that these blogs could not be a little lighter with a modicum of humour every now and then. I am also a qualified professional having worked in a science field for over fifty years. This does not make me an expert in any field, including my own and does not make me smarter than anybody else! I wish others could think similarly and discuss rather than attempt to dominate. No more from me on this blog.
    motaleon
    11th Aug 2012
    11:43am
    It is extremely seldom that an enterprise involving a government contract comes in on budget. You haven't heard the last of it yet.
    The NBN is already obsolete. Experiments are in progress to make the speed 85,000 times faster than it is now. These experiments involve a cable-like structure - believe it or not - of light, and transmissions will move at the speed of light.
    Bravo the clowns in Canberra.
    Abby
    11th Aug 2012
    12:14pm
    Can you just imagine how much behind times NBN will be in 15 years ???

    And we will still be paying for it in a 100 years. The future population is not going to thank us.
    aquatrek
    11th Aug 2012
    11:57am
    Hi Michael - enough said on here for me too - sorry to be on the nose [Channel 69] but it is very difficult to debate with people who have been brainwashed. Motaleon proves a very strong point, one that I have been putting foward yet no valid response to it at all, is that technological advances [and there is a formula for it but cant recall at present] are relatively very rapid and the NBN is using olde technology. The admission of guilt by default by one debater is that the NBN is 'Top Range' and that remark says it all. Cheers.
    aquatrek
    11th Aug 2012
    6:02pm
    Summary - Isnt it all a bit funny how jennya, ductape, justme, watto, davewatto, lingaus, telstra1, marron, abby, and motaleon [sorry about all lowercase] - all of the anti-NBN bloggers on count only [10 plus moi = 11] far outweigh the NBN promoters and their supporters. Now that is a very small survey and wouldnt pass academic muster at all but it would seem that here we have a very small group [2-4] pushing a 'slogan' - almost as if they were 'solicited' to do it. Their debating arguments are that the NBN is 'Top Notch' in technology > proven 100% incorrect. They also say that if you cant afford it or dont want it then that is fine also; despite the cost of getting it to your door > a financial disaster 100%. So the topic question I see answered in two parts:

    a) key societal strata of commerce medicine and education etc may well benefit and the cost seen as a rewardable long term outcome.

    b) residential/small-medium business dont need it so the cost is 100% wasted. Other mechanisms are already in place and developing as technology advances.

    If the NBN plan had been addressed in this two layered manner then all Oz citizens would have been able to readily determine the overall benefits to society. But this is not the case so the whole exercise will be seen as a badly managed project.
    aquatrek
    11th Aug 2012
    6:05pm
    ooops - didnt see you there Robby so that makes the anti-NBN group = 12. About 3 or 4 times the number of the 'for NBN' protagonists. Similar to the polls as to where LNP/ALP parties stand at present.
    ozimarco
    11th Aug 2012
    7:31pm
    Aquatrek, according to several polls, the majority of the population supports the NBN: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/56-per-cent-of-australians-support-nbn-poll-20120221-1tk6r.html
    You cannnot draw any conclusions from the small sample that has contributed to this thread. Most people reading 'yourlifechoices' are older Australians, who tend to be conservative, particularly when it comes to technology. If you asked 100 80-year-olds if they were in favour of the NBN, you would probably get a unanimous 'no'. If you asked 100 25-year-olds, you would probably get a different result, even if they were all LNP supporters.
    aquatrek
    11th Aug 2012
    7:52pm
    I dont know why I waste my time - but I must be bored or something.
    If you made the simple effort to read and digest the simplistic analysis above [get the drift - simple] then:

    the debate about technology clearly illustrates that the NBN is based on old technologies; fibre optics have been around for about 2 decades [I worked with them] plus the network concepts and implementation = hard wired point-to-point are copper technologies. FTA provides adequate digital services ALREADY to households as it gets rolled out. A no-brainer.

    Then there are the outright lies about the NBN costs to the residential dwelling householder - you know, the people who live in places and get billed and have to pay $$ out from their earnings [hopefully FULLY budgeted] for the internet services. Is that clear enough ?

    Last - the debating 'team' numbers are stated as 'similar' to the current polls. I didnt say that they were 'conclusive'. Learn how to debate with facts and not 'maybe' this and 'suppose' that ramblings. I congratulate the anti-NBN 'team' for their forthright input.
    robby
    11th Aug 2012
    5:18pm
    I have no qualifications whatsoever in IT. I am just a common end user. Can somebody please tell me why our system which is planned to take 10 years to install, will cost twice the cost of the Korean system (population 40 million) & achieve 1/10th the speed. As a pensioner, I can't get a loan to buy a $20,000 car, but the Government can sign me, my wife, my children & grandchildren up for a loan of $20,000 each for a broadband system which will not be installed in my remaining lifetime.
    ozimarco
    11th Aug 2012
    7:17pm
    I would say that the logistics of the project would make it very difficult to significantly shorten the rollout time without increasing the cost of the project. The fact that it costs twice as much as the Korean system is understandable by comparing the size of Korea with the size of Australia. Once the fibre has been rolled out, speed can easily be increased by upgrading the hardware connected to it. The money the government is borrowing to build this essential infrastructure that will serve us well for the foreseeable future will be paid back by the customers using it. The investment is forecast to return 7.1% p.a. for a minimum of 30 years. The fact that you can't get a loan for $20,000 is quite unrelated to the NBN.
    robby
    11th Aug 2012
    9:00pm
    I think you miss my point ozimarco. Every person in Australia has borrowed $20,000 each to put in a system that is one tenth the speed of Korea & if it returns 7.1% net, which I doubt, it won't come near to paying off the loan in 30 years. Why are we spending all that money on a system that is not competitive on the World market?
    ozimarco
    11th Aug 2012
    9:36pm
    Even if it is not paid off in 30 years, how is that a problem when the life of the fibre cable is more than 50 years? Why do you think the system is not competitive in the world market when it is almost infinitely upgradable, unlike Abbott's FTTN (fibre to the node) system, which would be obsolete a few years after it was built and would then still have to be replaced by FTTH? Abbott's plan would be faster to roll out and cheaper in the short term (ok if you want to get elected) but would be more expensive in the long run.

    13th Aug 2012
    10:43am
    Bottom line for me is this:
    The policy for NBN was hurriedly written out on a plane trip between Melbourne and Brisbane.
    There has never been a cost benefit analysis...ever.
    On past performance, this govt has caused mammoth cost blow-outs on every policy they've dreamed up.
    I simply do not trust them to handle such a huge project.
    ...............................................................................................

    "But it is not just the future the country's most intrepid nation-builder struggles with; it is also the past. For Conroy's comparison of the NBN to the Harbour Bridge shows his grasp of Australian history is second only to his mastery of economics.

    Conceived in the chaos of the Rudd government, Conroy's NBN project was cobbled together on a plane flight between Canberra and Brisbane and immediately announced. The decision to proceed relied on documentation from Wikipedia; it took a year after that before any serious analysis of costs was done, and even that analysis assumed, rather than estimated, crucial parameters. Little wonder taxpayers are still in the dark as to how much the NBN will cost, much less whether those costs are outweighed by benefits.

    The contrast with the Harbour Bridge could not be starker. Although the decision to build the bridge was taken in 1922, planning began even prior to the turn of the century. A royal commission in 1891 examined alternative options, and far more detailed assessments were made in 1900. So as to ensure "the utmost vigilance with public moneys", NSW's parliament referred the issue in 1907-08 to parallel royal commissions one on the overall "improvement of the city of Sydney and its suburbs", the other specifically on connecting the city's north and south "with commissioners sufficiently expert to examine the proposals exhaustively". In detailed public evidence, the commissioners heard from leading Australian and international experts, allowing them to "balance social costs and benefits, and physical costs in their analyses." "
    Henry Ergas, The Australian, 13/08/12.


    Join YOURLifeChoices, it’s free

    • Receive our daily enewsletter
    • Enter competitions
    • Comment on articles

    You May Like