Six in 10 say pension changes won’t improve retirement

Six in 10 older Australians say the new pension changes won’t improve retirement.

Six in 10 say pension changes won’t improve retirement

Age Pension changes that recently passed through parliament and will come into effect on 1 July have been met with scepticism by many older Australians.

Lat week, YourLifeChoices surveyed its 230,000 members to see if any of the changes would actually improve their retirement.

Of those surveyed, 82 per cent are fully retired, seven per cent are semi-retired, eight per cent are approaching retirement and three per cent say they won’t ever retire.

Around three in 10 are on a full Age Pension (31 per cent), 29 per cent are on a part Age Pension and 16 per cent are fully self-funded. Twelve per cent are still working either in a full-time, part-time or casual role.

Respondents were asked to estimate their annual income, and 17 per cent say theirs is between $25,001 and $30,000, 16 per cent between $15,001 and $20,000 and 13 per cent between $35,001 and $40,000 a year. Around nine per cent receive between $0 to $15,000 a year and three per cent have an annual income of $100,000 or more.

When asked about which pension changes coming into effect on 1 July 2019 will benefit them, 16 per cent said changes to the means test will help, while 14 per cent think extending the Work Bonus will be helpful and six per cent think expanding the Pension Loans Scheme will be of benefit.

However, 63 per cent think that none of the changes will do anything to improve their retirement.

“It won't make a gnat’s whisker of a change to me as I am a single pensioner with no home, no super, no savings. I consider it another shot in the back from the government,” wrote YourLifeChoices member, Terrib.

“Ordinary pensioners who rent and have no investments will not be better off. This means that if they continue to work until they drop, they can earn an extra $50 gross a fortnight. In the time being, the cost of food goes up each week with everything else,” wrote Jackie.

Almost nine in 10 respondents (89 per cent) believe that the Government doesn’t do enough to improve retirement for age pensioners.

What the Government can do, however, is increase the Age Pension, say 30 per cent of respondents, or provide free total universal healthcare (20 per cent) and guarantee seniors’ discounts on energy bills (14 per cent). Other suggestions favoured by our members include:

  • pay no tax (five per cent)
  • pay no GST (six per cent)
  • provide Rent Assistance increases (seven per cent)
  • provide Newstart or other welfare payment increases (four per cent)
  • cut house rates (10 per cent)
  • guarantee employment opportunities for older workers (three per cent).

One thing is for sure, the money being spent on these initiatives would be better put towards a straight Age Pension increase – at least according to nine in 10 YourLifeChoices members.

It’s not just age pensioners who are struggling. Not all self-funded retires are doing it easy, either, and some who could be affected by the elimination of franking credit refunds may also be looking down the barrel of having their modest income reduced.

“I made a big mistake ... My wife and I saved hard, worked two jobs, did overtime and scrimped and saved to put money into super to be self-sufficient in retirement. We get no concessions and pay full price on everything. We are not wealthy live in an average price house and get nothing from the Government. We pay our own way. Shorten is now looking to take income away from (us) to go on a spending spree which will mean we are worse off than pensioners,” wrote YourLifeChoices member, Dick.

Another member suggests that the Australian Government looks across the ditch to a pension system that may actually work.

“How simple and uncomplicated is the Kiwi universal pension? Australia would save billions of dollars just in administration by abolishing the current system and possibly generate further income by taxing all earning from work, assets, etc. Shame the LNP & ALP are so entrenched in keeping it complicated for their own gain. And no Robodebt on pensions ever again.

“New Zealand's public pension system, the New Zealand Superannuation (NZS), differs from those in many other countries. Its primary goal is to provide social protection rather than to replace earnings.

“The non-contributory flat-rate pension is paid to all residents fulfilling the residence requirements at the age of 65. The beneficiary must have lived in New Zealand for at least 10 years since turning 20 with at least five years spent in the country after the age of 50. The pension is financed from general tax revenues. The residency requirements are set for discussion.

“All benefits received under NZS are subject to income tax. The pension is paid regardless of whether the person is still employed or not. It is neither work nor income-tested. New Zealand has not legislated for a compulsory retirement age and employers are not allowed to specify a mandatory retirement age in employment contracts.”

What do you think would help improve your retirement? Which political party is better placed with policies that could benefit older Australians?

Age Pension rules are complex – let us simplify them for you. The RetirePlanner™ tool has all the information you need.

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    COMMENTS

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    18th Feb 2019
    9:49am
    Australia SHOULD adopt a universal pension and tax all retirement income. It's not hard, and it would likely cost far less than the current unfair mess with its hideous admin costs. Importantly, the assets test should be dumped as it is a ridiculously fake test of wealth and punishes people for doing what is good for the nation.

    We now have Shorten threatening life-long disadvantage to anyone who struggled to achieve just over the assets threshold and not be a burden on taxpayers. It's ludicrous, unfair, and constitutes elder abuse - and it's contrary to everything the Labor Party claims to stand for, as it is a transfer of money from battlers to the wealthy, but excludes anyone who manipulated to be a pensioner unnecessarily (as clearly the majority of pensioners who own shares must have done, as needy pensioners don't possess shares!)

    There is a very simple way to address Australia's budget shortfall if only one or the other political party would shift their focus from over-indulging the rich and concentrate on national interest.

    Change the superannuation tax concession to 15% below the member's marginal tax rate - thus transferring the majority of benefit from the rich to battlers and ensuring battlers have a better chance of saving for old age, rather than loading the coffers of those who will never need a pension anyway.

    Tax income to super funds in pension phase at full tax rates, but pay a universal pension to all to ensure that everyone. This removes the penalties for being responsible and encourages people to save for retirement, and drives the tax take up substantially. It reduces the admin cost attached to the OAP and removes the fear factor that is stressing so many pensioners having to deal with Centrelink and fearing the Robodebt monster.

    This is so simple, and would remove a host of major problems and inequities. It's mind-boggling that the wealthy are so greedy and self-serving that they won't allow it to happen.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    10:41am
    "Tax income to super funds in pension phase at full tax rates"
    Tax has already been paid at 15% so as to avoid double taxation there has to be a rebate of this tax paid.

    Fraser Anning is campaigning for the removal of the asset test and I had discussions with him a couple days about it. I also discussed the removal on the no tax on super after 60 because that only benefits those with high super incomes after the deduction of the 15% rebate.

    NZ pension rates
    https://kaspanz.com/2018/04/15/nz-superannuation-2018-rates/comment-page-1/
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:09am
    OGR has it right - and the least that government could do for genuine low income retirees is give them concessions and a healthcare card... it all depends, of course, on their income structure. It is not meet that a person retired and receiving benefits of being in that position continue to receive benefit of 'running costs' from business and such in lieu of cash and thus derive a very low 'income'. In that case the persons is NOT retired and must pay tax on that excess income.

    Too hard for the tax person with affirmative action reducing real ability, reliance on 'academic' qualification, and reductions in staff, along with employing temporaries at tax time.* The only ones they can go after are the ordinary taxpayers/workers whose every financial move is now online for the tax person to see automatically.... all the 'big boys' are too hard and take actual accounting work, and hold the big stick up of lengthy legal actions. Rule changes needed..... you can get one appeal to a proper board of people who know their accounting ... that's it.

    As for Rainey's plan and OG's objection that 15% has been paid already in tax, that needs a look at every individual 's situation in order to resolve the issues of tax paid and tax to be paid. It's going to take a lot of hard work and a lot of genuinely qualified employees in The Taxman to rectify years of neglect that has created dust-covered tax files for those with the wherewithal and the cunning, and that is going to cost in the short term. Well - it's only making up for the cost cutting that has cost to much in revenue over the past perhaps thirty odd years of neglect built in under the guise of 'government costs too much'.

    *All the fruits of successive government moves to 'help' their own mates first and foremost - such as a contracted senior management thus subservient to its political masters, the insane idea that there is no need for a year-long scrutiny of tax matters that require actual work and thus casuals and part-timers can be employed as a rule, and so forth - and that finger points at both major parties.
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    11:19am
    Defined benefit pensioners would need consideration. There are few of them but already they are badly treated by Centrelink deeming. The Superannuation guarantee was never received by this group. Their contributions were all non concessional. Avoiding double taxation would need to acknowledge this aspect.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    12:36pm
    Indeed, Rae - the entire structure surrounding retirement packaging has become an utter shambles .. some for years have enjoyed preferential systems that others have not, some of those systems are pure magic compared to the lot of the ordinary superannuation account holder, and thus far the entire flawed system has not had a full 'lifetime' to run, and thus has had no real chance to show any 'benefits', due to opportunistic and ideology-based political manipulation.

    A universal pension, one roof superannuation scheme looks the go to me, and only needs to be resolved from a specified date. Organise, train, set D-Day and launch....

    The issues of tax concessions past and tax paid past need to be resolved - basic contributions from wages/salaries are tax-free - all others require close scrutiny by The Bureau Of Tax Scrutiny (unlike the current one that allows many to get away unscrutinised - my kid's mother had an accountant for years and he was finally caught by the ATO and suspended - fortunately all her affairs were in order, but the really big boys he handled - well - let's just say that was another thing) - the 1984 style ATO - dedicated to ensuring that a little tax is paid as possible by any means....

    All those issues need to be included and worked out. It's a big and costly process - I've gone there before - and its only merit is that it must eventually bear fruit. In that sense, as someone else said yesterday or so, governments need to look beyond the election cycle and get to the real issues.
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    1:00pm
    There is a lot of propaganda about defined benefit income streams TREBOR. Many people don't realise how expensive these schemes were for the contributor nor how bad the returns were. Just saying something over and over doesn't make it true.

    I once calculated that the average contribution made by a public servant, not in management but a regular grunt on the ground, into one of these funds worth around $450 000 lump sum would have bought 8 Sydney investment properties over the same time frame. How such poor returns were achieved has never been investigated.

    They were compulsory also.

    I can understand jealousy when people think someone has more or is wealthy but if all that envy had been directed towards saving the same amounts after tax for decades the envious would be very well off indeed in fact they would have millions.

    Superannuation is not very successful in many cases.

    Universal welfare, education and health treating all equitably would be a marvellous thing.
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:14pm
    Rae, the recipients are fair game because they were former Public Servants in most cases, but people forget that includes teachers, nurses, police officers, ambulance and mid level public servants. Having to forgo 5% after tax income for years was a struggle for many. The only reason Military pensions were excluded from the change to deductibles in the income test was political to appease a few Generals
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    2:07pm
    Yes Sunday. There were only around 50 000 affected by the changes and it raised very little. It was pure spite against ex unionists from what I can see. Excluding just one group, the Military, demonstrates that they knew it was wrong and that unionists were not involved.
    Unforgivable betrayal of Labor voters .
    I could understand the LNP as they hate unionists and the Public Service but why the ALP and Greens supported this is beyond my understanding.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    2:57pm
    Sundays, in all fairness, Service pensions should stand aside from such things for many reasons... many suffer injury and illness from being in service, and those on active service obviously suffer more and deserve a better deal. I don't think it was to appease a few
    generals...

    There are, of course, schemes to compensate service personnel injured on duty - but I know of cases where this is like the 'Rainmaker' insurance company - they drag it out so long that the applicant loses heart - with predictable effects on morale and attitude, and thus, often, the need for a claim for stress related problems.

    The ex-services bodies attempt to recruit me to deal with these things (maybe when the ex I'm carer for and I settle finally near the ocean, and she can be slightly more self-reliant - closer to things), and they include the utter disaster of asbestos insulation in ships and the poisoning of Air Force personnel cleaning fuel tanks from the inside.... these are dire issues which, in civilian life, would net the applicant a fortune... instead they are often fobbed off with excuses and a Service Pension, which is the same as OAP.
    AutumnOz
    18th Feb 2019
    3:07pm
    Rainey you said " excludes anyone who manipulated to be a pensioner unnecessarily (as clearly the majority of pensioners who own shares must have done, as needy pensioners don't possess shares!)" You have no proof anyone who owns shares has acquired them by manipulation or other means.
    Many people now on a part pension do own shares and they did not either cheat the system or buy those shares. Remember the free share give outs by NIB and I think it was the NRMA??
    The people who received the shares may well have thought they would be an asset only to find they are now a disadvantage.
    Fortunately I got rid of my allocated free shares as soon as possible as they were a nuisance rather than an asset.
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    3:13pm
    Of course Trebor I meant no disrespect to the military personnel as individuals, but the changes were wrong. Police Officers also risk their lives but ignored in the changes which altered the exempt portion of people’s superannuation to an arbitrary 10% regardless of the actual figures. Rae, the Liberals passed the bill with support from the Greens. However, like the Asset test I haven’t heard Labor saying they will reverse it.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:51pm
    Police had a pretty good scheme that gave them a 'mortgage buster' if they could get out on disability - that's why so many were corrupt and told lies - to try to make out they were suffering on the job when the truth was they were inflicting suffering on others to pave their own way to an early retirement and future prosperity in another job.

    That system had to be cut down ... costing too much....

    Nowadays they are improving, but the 'bad apples still' exist...

    My uncle was a copper for nearly fifty years.... started as a cadet at fifteen... way back under the old system, and I noticed a Superintendent with my mother's family name - my uncle, her brother, had a grandson who went the copper route... could be him.
    Rae
    19th Feb 2019
    7:01am
    TREBOR some police may have taken advantage as some teachers, nurses, firefighters etc but overall these few people did exactly what the Government and unions decreed.

    The excuse for holding pay back was always " your retirement will be good..soldier on."

    Deeming around 50% of non concessional as only 10% is not the deal people paid for for 40 years regardless of attitudes towards these community workers.

    You have no idea how many nurses, teachers, police officers or firefighters are injured on the job.

    I worked part time for the Army as a officer of Cadets and adjutant and lecturer for 9 years when my boys needed direction as they were fatherless. I have great respect for all who serve their country.

    The changes that denied promised centrelink benefits at the end of decades to public servants following compulsory orders were a betrayal. Excusing one group simply acknowledges this truth.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    10:04am
    The commentary from a poster called Dick pretty well describes most self funded retirees: making around pension level give or take a few dollars and on the government hit list because they have assets they live off. You'd think the government would value the fact that self funded retirees are not accessing the pension system rather than targeting them to take their assets. Arguments both ways of course but I often wonder what those on full pensions would say if their pension had to be reduced because a whole pile of self funded retirees had to go on the pension. That of course is not in the thought processes of either individuals or governments.
    I like the New Zealand model but our political elite would be unable to cope if they could not spend irresponsibly like drunken sailors on shore leave. They'd have to live in their means. Not us?!
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    10:48am
    You are confusing this government with labor's intention to slug self funded retirees making around the pension level
    Dishonest as usual Mick,
    Only LnP is capable of and will deliver a surplus budget
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    10:48am
    You are confusing this government with labor's intention to slug self funded retirees making around the pension level
    Dishonest as usual Mick,
    Only LnP is capable of and will deliver a surplus budget
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:15am
    You are confusing this government with a caring group when the reality is that it considers anyone below 'their' level as being not The People* worthy of consideration.... it is, after all, 'this' government that did a Hockey on retirees on part pension and chopped them up like cast-off bones in an abattoir. I doubt they will be forgetting that even though Fat Joe has done a wealth-creating runner into a job he should never have had.

    *a very Leninist concept - the Leninist 'socialists' considered their 'class' - the upper middle class - to be The People - all those below starting from the 'lower middle class' of shop keepers etc were as cattle in the field to be lead by the nose, and ignored when it came to the 'proper' running of the State..... that concept persists to this day in Russkiye and other places 'communist' or 'socialist' by self-naming (if by nothing else).
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:16am
    P.S. even today in the West, all the 'mainstream' 'social revolutionaries' are middle class... even the French Revolution started with the middle classes who felt aggrieved at paying taxes for the King's fattening and opulent lifestyle ....
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    11:51am
    TREBOR - methinks Lothario is paid to post. Same mud slinging with no proof or facts as always. A wasted piece of refuse! Where do they get Australians like this from????? The north Shore of Sydney?
    Your comment is as normal on the money and you understand the issue. Keep it going.
    OlderandWiser
    18th Feb 2019
    12:04pm
    Lothario repeating himself again like a bad smelly fart
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:33pm
    Funny....but correct.
    KSS
    18th Feb 2019
    12:59pm
    If Lothario is paid at all, he is probably paid the same amount as you MICK.
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    1:05pm
    Yes MICK. I've worked out I am eligible for a small part pension and I'm going to apply. Stuff the Government. I hope hundreds of thousands flood the system and I don't even receive franking credits. I'm just really peeved right now by the inequity of it all.
    The concessions and being able to pull out the pension card every time I'm hit for full costs will be satisfying .
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:23pm
    Apply Rae. You’ve paid for it and the small amount you receive probably won’t make up for the first home owners grant, maternity leave payment, baby bonus, family tax benefits, child care rebate etc. you helped fund but missed out on.
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    2:12pm
    Thanks Sunday. I'm doing okay financially but the bullying I'm feeling from both the Government and the Opposition is worth fighting. I loathe injustice and inequality or lack of opportunity and I see it growing policy by wretched policy.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    2:40pm
    I'll always try to post the FACTS KSS.
    You are a part of the team and your comments go down the party line line a number of others.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    2:59pm
    Perfectly said, Sundays....
    Colours
    18th Feb 2019
    10:16am
    They need to tie the deeming rate to the reserve bank interest rate. They assume we are all speculating on the stock market and earning far more than the banks are paying, and reducing the pension based on a false income test.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    10:46am
    Deeming rate is based on what most people are earning not what the bank pays or the cash rate. Leaving your money in the bank is one of the worst investments you can have as it loses money after tax and inflation nearly every year.
    sunnyOz
    18th Feb 2019
    11:20am
    You are right colours....OG goes on about how bad it is to leave money in banks. But many older people - that is all they have known. I have recently helped out an elderly aunt, and there is no way she would move her money (what little she has) from a bank. First she does not understand it all - online, shares, investments, etc. 2ndly - banks are all she has ever known.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:24am
    Rubbish, OG - the deeming rate is generally higher than bank interest rates on accounts - and the majority of very low income recipients always cop the lowest rate of interest from them.

    "The first $51,200 of your financial assets has the deemed rate of 1.75% applied. Anything over $51,200 is deemed to earn 3.25%."

    Consider this little gem:-

    "Deeming thresholds: From 1 July 2018 until 30 June 2019 (for the 2018/2019 year), the indexed asset value thresholds apply as set out below: For financial investments worth up to $51,200 (for singles), and up to $85,000 (for couples), a deeming rate of 1.75% applies."

    "FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS?" How in the hell is a boat or a Windbag a 'financial investment"? They COST money, you idiots, they don't 'earn' any!

    "Name Maximum Variable Rate p.a. Standard Variable Rate p.a.
    RaboDirect High Interest Savings Account 3.05% 1.80%
    HSBC Serious Saver 3.10% 1.40%
    Bankwest Hero Saver 2.60% 0.01%
    UBank USaver 2.87% 1.81%"
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    11:27am
    Rubbish Trebore.
    OG is right . You need to read what people write, not immediately jump in with your idiotic comments
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:50am
    I thought I told you to be a good boy, Loathsome... now get along with you....

    Try reading the figures I give if you can do that simple task without foaming at the mouth. then discuss like a mature adult instead of the child we know you to be.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    11:53am
    They must pay Lothario by the comment. No substance to anything he writes. I recall the same posters a decade ago when climate change was being was being debated. All you ever got was coal industry trolls posting the same sort of unsubstantiated smear we read from Lothario and a few of the others on the same payroll.
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    12:53pm
    Not just the deeming rate but the taper rate as well. Not eneough to change the Asset threshhold but Pensioners now lose $3 for every $1,000 above the Asset wheras it used to be $1.50.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:53pm
    BTW - I could 'base' any rate on anything at all - does that make it valid?

    Pensions are based on XX% of AWE... does that make it viable?
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:35pm
    Oh dearie me we do have a lot of ungrateful pensioners.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:40pm
    Of course the top end of town are grateful for their huge tax cuts but ungrateful because they did not also get tax cuts for their web of companies. How ungrateful!
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    10:54am
    Mick the top end of town never lose and in most cases do better with any changes.
    Ted Wards
    18th Feb 2019
    10:47am
    The issue is that the current generations who are getting the pension will be one of the last ones to receive it. The age of entitlement is over in Australia (except for politicians), that's why we have had a compulsory super system in place since the 90's. Ive just turned 54 and have no doubt that I will have my super to live on and very little assistance from the government. The question for future generations such as those in my age group, is what are we doing to ensure we are in a better position to retire and not to rely on the Government? I'm retraining so that I can run my own business after I finish 9 - 5 work, I have no intention on relying on the government system because I have no intention of living in poverty. It sucks and is demoralising. However, for those currently on the pension, it is not a fair system and they are robbed, but so are self-funded retirees who cost the government nothing.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:32am
    With never-ending inflation and real cost of living rises, Ted, I doubt that your super will cover you adequately for very long once you are retired. Remember Keating's ad about 'wouldn't you like to have $300,000 in super"... now $300,000 won't get you a healthy supply of Mars Bars...

    How many people living today have a current super balance in retirement LOWER than that?

    "Around 58 per cent of total superannuation assets are held by those aged between 50 and 69, according to ASFA. The average super balance for people aged 50 to 54 during 2015–16 was $135,290, ASFA found. For people aged 60 to 64 this figure increases to $214,897 and for 65-69-year-olds, it drops to $207,105 as people start drawing down their super."

    https://www.superinsights.anz.com/news/baby-boomers-this-is-the-average-super-balance-for-your-age

    That myth is in bed right now and that was 2015-2016 ... now consider how many who are now around 67 have much more than that, or how little the current 73 year old is getting in the hand from super.

    "start drawing down their super" - you mean they have to draw against it to live? The government plan is working - get all the greedy old bastards to spend down everything they've generated from a lifetime of work, and then cut out the pension as well. Prepare the gas ovens and the Soylent Green factories!!

    Did someone say these bastards actually care or even think about anything but their personal comfort and ideology?

    Time for that revolution.............
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    11:36am
    $300k during Keating's ti me would be worth $800k today. Get with the program Trebore
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:51am
    Did you bother to read the ACTUAL figures, Loathie?

    Not much of a reader or thinker, are you?

    Get with the program, Loathsome.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    11:55am
    "Age of entitlement"? I thought that was what rich citizens milking the system and having large tax cuts were enjoying. Oh yes....ONLY poor and middle class citizens need to have an age of entitlement hurdle put in their way. Tell me about a fair go Ted.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    12:43pm
    Of course - The People I mentioned above (the middle class are sort of token People in that scenario - the cattle start at 'lower middle class') must have their Entitlements lest they mismanage the nation and it go broke to the detriment of all... it's the Rich Man's Burden to ensure that the peasants don't get out of line and endanger the nation....

    So it is only right and proper that these same peasants receive no 'entitlements', since to offer them such would encourage them to sloth and to revolution and we would all suffer.

    At what point did it become an Entitlement for a failed 'treasurer' (or any other political hack) who had NFI to be handed a nice little earner as an Ambassador to any nation, let alone our biggest ally? What kind of thinking is that?

    WTH hell kind of genuine 'qualifications do such twits have?
    KSS
    18th Feb 2019
    1:03pm
    Trebor please explain why you think it is necessary to refuse to use someone's name and instead call them by pejorative monikers.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    2:42pm
    I don't want to sound like Pauline Hanson but what's a "pejorative moniker"? Is that how you speak at afternoon tea at the club? Your credentials are beginning to show KSS. First a loyal LNP supporter. Now slinging the superlatives which not even the educated on the site know it means.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:04pm
    KSS - simple retaliation - returning fire to keep their heads down... then I sneak around them and take 'em from the side and roll' em up..

    Here Loathie - 'For people aged 60 to 64 this figure increases to $214,897 and for 65-69-year-olds, it drops to $207,105 as people start drawing down their super."

    How much more towards Keating's mythical $300,000 - now the equivalent of $800,000 - would those 65-69 year olds in 2016 have added? Would they even have made $300,00 TODAY?

    You truly are a great learning tool for the many, Lothario - you stimulate people to post reality to overcome your fantasy world.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:05pm
    pejorative moniker - insulting title or nick-name...

    I've said elsewhere that such a thing is no insult to some but often a compliment - and they need no help in demeaning themselves.... do a great job on their own....
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:11pm
    Trebore is a lightweight and a tosser
    Good for a laugh
    As he understands nothing not even simple arithmetic
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:42pm
    God the Lieberal trolls led by the horrible Loathsome are nauseating.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:53pm
    My happy supporters disagree with you, Loathsome..... you, on the other hand ........
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    6:21pm
    One has to laugh a government so desperate they have to employ half wits like Lothario. Good entertainment though. Ha ha ha.

    18th Feb 2019
    10:49am
    Labor is intent on making modest self funded retirees spend what little assets they have an go on welfare
    On the Ball
    18th Feb 2019
    11:17am
    Not sure about that.
    How many SMSF retirees 'rely' on franking credits?
    Pretty poor investment strategy! Sure, some will have been sucked in by the hype around the share market, but as a SMSF retiree myself, there's NO WAY I would RELY on franking credits! Even a small proportion of my nestegg. Its far too risky!
    Just the same, I do agree that franking credits are owed to the investor who (because of circumstances - not chicanery...) doesn't pay tax.
    An illustration of the hype and scare around at the moment, my brother-in-law spouted that there's no way he'd vote Labor because he wont "let Shorten take away my retirement!"
    (He is a retired cop on a defined pension!)
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    11:23am
    "On the ball" - you are not the group that Shorten is targeting. You obviously are not in the "modest" SFR group earning around the pension amount
    Those who are just over the asset threshold have to maximize their income so do have some money invested in shares that pay franked dividends. All Australian companies pay franked dividends at some point
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    11:31am
    Money is the bank is not an investment and is far riskier than share market investments.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:35am
    Of course it is - 'business rules' say that once you 'invest' your money with the bank, it is no longer yours (so shares are not really yours -they are still held by the company - hello), and if the bank 'needs' it - it will simply resume it to pay its way before it pays yours.

    Nothing new in 'business rules' there at all... all possession taken but no responsibility....
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    11:58am
    TREBOR - given what happened to bank deposits in Cyprus during the GFC and the adoption of the legislation by every western government since money in the bank IS NOT YOURS. If the banks fail then it is gone. That is fact. Check APRA documents as its sitting there waiting for the right political and economic shock just like the desalination plant in Sydney was just cranked up at a moment's notice.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    12:01pm
    Desalination plant in Sydney makes more sense than throwing billions down the drain on Tesla batteries and expensive unreliable wind energy in SA
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:31pm
    And digging and burning coal makes sense to you as well even if it results in the extinction of the human race, or at best coastal cities being the next Atlantis.
    You are so full of BS Lothario.

    Are you being paid by the comment or is your payment via what is called 'Services to the Liberal Party'?
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:32pm
    By the way the South Australian Tesla batteries have STABILISED the grid and in one year they are ONE THIRD PAID OFF.
    Tell your lies to somebody who is mentally challenged.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    12:34pm
    Hahahah
    One third paid off ???
    How ??
    Oh I know , the labor government took out yet another loan to pay off 1/3 of the money they borrowed to give Musk his $billik s for a white elephant
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:53pm
    ONE THIRD PAID OFF! AND WORKING AS PROMISED!
    Even your right wing media has broadcast that. How inconvenient to your job as a right wing troll.
    KSS
    18th Feb 2019
    1:18pm
    Funny how MICK fails to mention the 100MW battery provides just 2 per cent of the capacity in South Australia yet makes 55 per cent of the revenues in South Australia.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    1:22pm
    Hahahha
    Is that how they paid back a third of the battery cost
    Shafting the poor idiots of SA with a HUGE TAX
    It’s the labor way after all
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    2:19pm
    Gosh KSS I knew the States revenues were in a black hole but that is terrible. For a State to own so little of any money creating assets shows the trickle up to private owners and shareholders and Senior Staff and contractors of our Government's Privatisation policies succeeded in rewarding the favourites very well indeed.

    Lothario what do they do now the revenue assets are in private hands and those hands rarely pay any taxes. There are only the citizens left to pay up. This is Neo -liberalism at it's dirtiest.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    2:58pm
    The LNP tag team in action - KSS and Lothario
    You forgot to mention that the last 2 extremely hot summers has seen NO ELECTRICITY FAILURES in South Australia. Funny that.
    You for got to mention that whilst small it serves the very important function of stopping the grid going down until backup can be put online.
    You forgot to mention that renewable energy in South Australia accounted for 43% of the electricity production in 2015-16. What must it be now?

    Here's something for you two government paid coal trolls to read:

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-stunning-numbers-behind-success-of-tesla-big-battery-63917/

    and

    https://industryandskills.sa.gov.au/upload/energy/facts/Renewable%20and%20future%20electricity%20generation_DSD_11216.pdf
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:49pm
    "Labor is intent on making modest self funded retirees spend what little assets they have an go on welfare"

    Typical lies and fear-mongering from the Loathsome Lieberal troll.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    3:50pm
    Last time I was SA all I heard was diesel generators. Off over there is a couple of weeks and I doubt anything would have changed.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    3:50pm
    Last time I was SA all I heard was diesel generators. Off over there is a couple of weeks and I doubt anything would have changed.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    4:16pm
    You need to stay clear of those diesel fumes, OG - happy holidays....
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    6:23pm
    Geez OG I expected pink batts and school halls. You are laughable.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:38pm
    No Mick this whole renewable energy caper is laughable with all those diesel generators humming away in the background in SA.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:38pm
    No Mick this whole renewable energy caper is laughable with all those diesel generators humming away in the background in SA.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:41pm
    Your typical dishonest comment OG. The diesel generators are EMERGENCY STANDBY only. Never needed from what I understand and they would only be used to stop the grid shutting down altogether.
    Tell the truth. Not your porkies.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    9:23pm
    Last move - I'll be installing excess to requirements rooftop solar, solar hot water, wind generator and batteries, and water tanks....

    Sick of being bled white by power and water bills...
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    9:29pm
    Don't know about batteries and wind power Trebor. Will take 20 years to get your money back on that
    The solar power and water tanks make sense
    Am installing a 6.6kw solar system myself next week. My current power bill is around $650 per quarter so hope have the investment paid back in 4 years

    Not too keen on water tanks as they look unsightly and I would only use the water for my garden . Underground water tanks are not cost effective I don't think for only watering plants

    Good luck with your project
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    9:29pm
    Don't know about batteries and wind power Trebor. Will take 20 years to get your money back on that
    The solar power and water tanks make sense
    Am installing a 6.6kw solar system myself next week. My current power bill is around $650 per quarter so hope have the investment paid back in 4 years

    Not too keen on water tanks as they look unsightly and I would only use the water for my garden . Underground water tanks are not cost effective I don't think for only watering plants

    Good luck with your project
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    10:59am
    My solar panels have been paid for about 3 times over when we got 60c feed in but I wouldn't bother installing them today as they would take too long to get my money back with such low feed ins. Batteries will take me over 25 years to get my money back and need replacing way before then. Got a free water tank and a couple of pumps in a property deal years ago and it's great to water all the gardens and lawns.

    18th Feb 2019
    10:49am
    Labor is intent on making modest self funded retirees spend what little assets they have an go on welfare
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    2:22pm
    Yes exactly as the LNP did to hundreds of thousands during their term. They'll go after Aged Pensioners next. Nothing surer. When on a roll keep rolling and we are easy game and you notice it's never all of us. Just group by group attack in the fascist method.
    Paddington
    18th Feb 2019
    5:48pm
    Record keeps spinning!
    Keep electioneering for LNP blatantly!
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    11:02am
    Rae the problem is the same people that lost their pensions are the ones most affect now by Labor's unfair proposed policy.

    With 500,000 more on the pension and their unfair franking credit policy losing more than it gains therefore they will be raiding the health and education budgets to pay the welfare budget Labor can only do one thing. Pensioners too will suffer.
    cupoftea
    18th Feb 2019
    11:05am
    I am led to believe that franking credits do not affect pensioners and if you are working you just claim it of your tax
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    11:13am
    Selfish statement
    So you care not about self funded retirees who are supporting your welfare payments
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:36am
    Those who have been doing their tax correctly and have no hidey-holes for income will receive a return, OG - that's what tax laws say. Easier to simply abolish all franking and do your own tax - no problem-o then.

    After all, franked credits ARE part of your personal gross income..... shouldn't make any difference to the real person .....
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    11:39am
    Usual NFI rubbish from Trebore. Still don't understand the imputation system, looks like you never will
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    11:41am
    Even pensioners will be affected by Labor's anti investment policies.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:53am
    Why then would you want so desperately to hold on to franked credits, Loathie? Could it be because you are getting an unwarranted advantage out of them - meaning you are not paying your full tax duty?

    What difference does it make who pays the tax, when it is still part of your gross income? Hmmmmmm? Bit sensitive, are we? Plenty to hide? Or just, as some say here, a paid fear monger?
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:01pm
    cupoftea - Shorten said pension recipients would not be affected by his franking credits legislation. Its self funded retirees who will be hit and the legislation does not discriminate between those earning around the old age pension or billionaires. That's what is so bad about it. Worse than that Labor may not make changes to avert the attack on retirees.
    OlderandWiser
    18th Feb 2019
    12:36pm
    Those opposed to Labor's FC are just running scare tactics
    A Shorten Labor Government will close down the concession created by Howard and Costello, and return to the arrangement first introduced by Hawke and Keating – so that imputation credits can be used to reduce tax, but not for cash refunds.

    Closing down this concession will save the budget $11.4 billion over the forward estimates from 2018-19, and improve the budget bottom line by $59 billion over the medium term.

    This change only affects a small number of shareholders who have no tax liability and use imputation credits to receive a cash refund.

    While those people will no longer receive a cash refund, they will not be paying additional tax.
    Under Labor’s plan:
    o No one will pay a single cent more tax
    o No one will lose a single cent from their super contributions
    o No one will lose a single cent from their pension
    o No one will lose a single cent from their share dividends.

    Pensioner Guarantee:

    Labor believes in a fair go for Australians – we know a lot of pensioners are struggling with the cost of living and that a small proportion of pensioners rely on modest cash refunds on excess imputation credits.

    We’ve always said we’d look after pensioners, and that is why Labor’s Pensioner Guarantee will protect pensioners from our proposed changes to dividend imputation.

    The Pensioner Guarantee means Australian government pensioners and allowance recipients will be protected from the abolition of cash refunds for excess dividend imputation credits when the policy commences in July 2019.

    Under the Pensioner Guarantee:
    * Every recipient of an Australian Government pension or allowance with individual shareholdings will still be able to benefit from cash refunds. This includes individuals receiving the Age Pension, Disability Support Pension, Carer Payment, Parenting Payment, Newstart and Sickness Allowance.
    * Self-managed Superannuation Funds with at least one recipient of an Australian Government pension or allowance as at 28 March 2018 will be exempt from the changes.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    12:38pm
    Its a damn lie and you know it 1984
    Those who lose the tax refund are effectively paying a 30% tax on a NIL taxable income
    It’s like you saying a PAYG Employee who is entitled to a tax refund but doesn’t get one is not paying a single cent extra in tax
    What a liar
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    12:49pm
    Yes, Mick - that is the true oil - the GENUINE lower end SFRs are not being given anything, which is wrong... every such case needs to be fully reviewed by properly trained and capable officers of the ATO, and a decision made. It's really not that hard for anyone with a modicum of sense, as I showed clearly in my time with the APS - is hosed them how easily systems could be organised with hard work and dedication. Unfortunately those were not characteristics that the APS wanted then... now they need them more than ever given their utter incompetence. inability to actually do the job with staff cuts etc as above, and their absolute direct control by the government of the day.

    A bit like Afghanistan where the 'head office' staff outnumbers troops in the field by about 2:1, and 'head office' (the head shed) micro-managed every move..... often to the detriment of those troops on the ground.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:57pm
    1984 - I'd like to see Labor extend their desire to look after low earning Australians to self funded retirees who earn less than the OAP. Is that fair??????
    Maybe top up retirement income? Alternatively allow franking credits to a low value, say $5000? We need to see that Labor is not another LNP in sheep's clothing. Does Labor support a fair go or does it not. Not exactly wonderful that it wants to come after low earning retirees. The bad policy may result in voters skipping Labor and heading straight for the Greens.
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:02pm
    Lothario, SFR don’t support welfare payments. Taxpayers, past, present and future do. At present there are 67% of retirees who access the pension in some form or other as a legitimate income tool. You meet the criteria, you qualify.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    1:13pm
    Sunday’s and Mick - why don’t you address 1984’s copy paste of labors lies

    Strangely silent both of you
    KSS
    18th Feb 2019
    1:22pm
    Sundays if those SFR pay tax they do support those on welfare just like everyone else does who pays tax on their earnings.
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:29pm
    That’s what I said KSS all taxpayers. Past, present, future. I’m a bit tired of some SFR suggesting that they are solely funding pensioners. Working people did the best they could to support their families secure in the knowledge that on retirement they could access the pension. If you wanted more and were able you saved more. There used to be no judgement, and unfortunately that seems to be changing
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:36pm
    Mick, I read over the weekend that Shorten is looking at allowing Franking credits to a low value level limit. Remember, this is a proposal it will have lots of amendments before it is ever passed.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    1:47pm
    Pigs fly Sunday’s
    Shorten will eliminate franking credits and raise the pension age to 70
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    2:50pm
    1984 you are making a fool of yourself posting that Labor propaganda.

    If you have franking credits you have paid tax. If you lose your franking credits you will pay the value of your franking credits as tax. You will therefore you will lose the value of your framing credits in tax.

    Which bit don't you understand? None of it it seems.

    What about the $34 billion in franking credits that Shorten is giving back to high income earners?
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    3:05pm
    Sundays, 1984 - it never passes my notice that our government trolls post claims which can never be corroborated and smear which can easily be shown for the lies it is. I note the above parrots cannot PROVE anything but simply make the comments.
    I'm not sure Shorten is going to relent on the franking credits but if he wants to avoid a minority government he darn well better address the unfairness of what he has done. By all means go after those who earn significant amounts of money from the credits but don't burn low earning retirees. They will vote against him.
    I'd hate to see the current rats masquerading as 'representatives' of electorates get back in. The only end game of this lot is to destitute the middle class and transfer more massive amounts of wealth to the rich.

    I am starting to think that an outspoken attendee at Davos recently who is calling for a 70% tax rate on the rich with no outs has a point. Then they'll have a genuine reason to cry poor.....but even with that they will make money.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:42pm
    Shorten is now on track to lose the unlosable election now. Latest opinion poll has their primary vote below their 2016 one with 2 party preferred at 51 to 49.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:42pm
    Shorten is now on track to lose the unlosable election now. Latest opinion poll has their primary vote below their 2016 one with 2 party preferred at 51 to 49.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:47pm
    I saw that reported on both 7 and 9 News. Blatant LNP propaganda stations.
    I wouldn't believe a word of what Overton had to say given his nasty arrogant rich mans sneer at Shorten after Labor was stopped from forming government because of the Murdoch, Stokes and local right wing media. That was not democracy.

    We need honest media. Real journalism. Not stooges who all support the (LNP) team....just like you do OG.
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    11:04am
    Mick the next poll will be 51 to 49 against Labor.
    cupoftea
    18th Feb 2019
    11:05am
    I am led to believe that franking credits do not affect pensioners and if you are working you just claim it of your tax
    Dave R
    18th Feb 2019
    11:50am
    That's correct cupoftea.
    Ignore people like Lothario they are LNP trolls.
    Dave R
    18th Feb 2019
    11:50am
    That's correct cupoftea.
    Ignore people like Lothario they are LNP trolls.
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    12:00pm
    It will affect pensioners who are receiving pensions from their own savings instead of the Centrelink pension. Many only earn as much as you. They are going to have their savings decimated. Not saving is beginning to become a better idea with each retirement change.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:01pm
    Correct.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    12:02pm
    Correct Rae
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    12:52pm
    That, and spending down your assets, must be the end game of this kind of 'government' initiative, Rae. It would appear they want a subservient group of 'lesser class' people, just like the kinds they seem intent on bringing into this nation without so much as a by your leave....

    Nothing against individuals in those groups, but let's face realities - their standards and values are not ours... they are lower, and this suits any government bent on absolute control = despotism.

    I'm sure the fools who are playing this game in Canberra and elsewhere don't see it that way - but the majority out here do, even if they are unable to articulate it in the terms I use ...
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    12:55pm
    Every day, for example, it seems there is a new 'wage under-payment' scandal.... all caught out by a body set up by 'this' government.....

    Just one example of values and standards imported to this nation from decrepit Third World Shot-Hole Turd Factories... some of the people are fine....... many fail the citizenship test of 'wage payments' and income rights ..... and many make up the difference by engaging in crime.....
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    12:56pm
    ... and all, each imagining his group to be 'better', have a serious issue around 'class' in society - some worse than others....
    floss
    18th Feb 2019
    11:21am
    New Zealand people and pollies are more intelligent than Australians in many ways.C/Link is broken and a universal pension is the only way.Must agree O.G.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:24pm
    Australian candidates should have to pass both an IQ test and a suitability test. Given you have to have a piece of paper for everything else these days why not in politics? That way you avoid the total disasters we get and the damage they do with our money.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    1:11pm
    Agree Mick - Shorten would have been culled decades ago
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    3:06pm
    When is it your turn? Both the IQ test and the lynching.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:55pm
    Mick, an IQ test would mean there'd be no LNP politicians - they'd all fail. Their ilk are not known as "Rightards" for nothing!
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    6:25pm
    Clearly...and probably half of Labor as well. Being deadheads seems to be no hurdle to being elected. Even Tony Abbott got a jersey.
    floss
    18th Feb 2019
    11:23am
    For god sake get real Lathario you are a fool.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    11:28am
    which part of what I wrote don't you understand floss
    And please try and be courteous to fellow posters on this site
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:37am
    Thunder returning, Lothario... thunder returning.... now keep being a good boy...
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    11:42am
    I guess it takes one to know one.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    11:54am
    Not always, OG - that Old Geezer's Tale has long ago been banished to the outer realms of credibility...
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    12:01pm
    ROFL
    OlderandWiser
    18th Feb 2019
    12:19pm
    Lothario wrote "And please try and be courteous to fellow posters on this site" ROFLMFHO
    When are you ever courteous, laugh of the day, maybe the week lol.
    All you do is flame & put everyone else down (except for your few troll LNP mates) with nothing constructive to say or add.
    You are a genius at f..k all mate.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:26pm
    I'll continue my call for 'paid' poster. Paid to discredit any opposition to the ruling crooks in suits. Add to that ZERO facts for the smear. That's how the LNP has orchestrated the current batch through its right wing media. Lothario is but a very small speck working to a common end.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    12:30pm
    I’m 100% positive you are a card carrying member of the labor party Mick
    You only come on here to bag this government at every opportunity
    With lies and labor propaganda
    OlderandWiser
    18th Feb 2019
    12:39pm
    Calling a spade a spade is not bagging the government, still not posting anything that contributes to the post apart from putting people down & flaming
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    1:00pm
    If this government showed it was a real government and not a tool for the top end of town I'd be giving it kudos. Sadly it is what it is and shows all the hallmarks of a developing dictatorship which will enslave citizens who are not in the Party and not wealthy.
    I will continue to call out corruption and abuse of power no matter who is involved. You included Lothario.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:11pm
    Anyone who unreservedly supports any major party extant is a fool in my eyes.....

    I haven't voted for any of them for years, and will not be again this time around at either State or Federal level.

    I drive those roads and I see the pain of many retirees in the groups in which I circulate.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:14pm
    For once you are right Trebore
    Mick is a fool
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:57pm
    Takes one to know one, Loathsome.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:58pm
    Mick's a retiree with a firm handle on the truth....... I didn't mention names.... tsk, tsk ....
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    4:19pm
    Besides, Mick only leans towards Labor as the lesser of two evils.. not as the saviour of the nation...

    Poor Fellow - My Country!
    GrayComputing
    18th Feb 2019
    12:04pm
    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    A pension is not welfare.

    Now is the season for discontent, so do something about it!
    It is time to kill off this insane hugely expensive pensioner whacking bureaucracy.

    It is time for all of us (yes that means you) to rant at our MPs and Senators daily to take action for human decency and a huge stress reduction for pensioners

    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    A pension is not welfare.

    Most economist say we will save taxpayers money by dropping asset testing because of the massive overheads cost in running Centrelink and the 10,000 conflicting rules.

    Hiring more Centrelink staff will only increase taxpayer’s costs for processing the creeping insane red tape monster system politicians and well paid bureaucrats have created.

    Help scrap it now. Become a hero.

    Even poorer New Zealand has a NO ASSET pension so it is cheaper and user friendly.

    Why worry that few million$ earners get it too. That is peanuts to them, not enough for a good vintage champagne.

    Do retired and retiring people really look forward and want 100++ visits to/from Centrelink and be part of 3 million waiting queues and lost calls?

    We all (that means you) need to tell our MP and senators every day that these criminal asset tests for a pension must be dropped now.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    12:29pm
    I have no issues withe an assets test but it has to be fair and reasonable. Removal from the pension at $800,000 is the rich man's government trying to shake out retirees who die with a bank account. The intention is to rob the children's estate and for the top end of town to OWN EVERYTHING. This is not healthy and will ensure your children own little or nothing in their lifetime. Its wrong.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    12:31pm
    Labor is the one robbing children of their estate by forcing modest SFR’s to spend down and go on welfare
    Facts always win over your lies Mick
    OlderandWiser
    18th Feb 2019
    12:42pm
    Correct Mick, wrong Lothario
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    1:00pm
    Mick they are already talking about making any pension paid a debt on your estate as a death tax.

    I agree with it as that's only fair to those who pay for their own retirement.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    1:05pm
    So you pick on one policy which damages a few and ignore policies from the current rich man's controlled government which attacks us all? How strange.

    Talk about tax cuts for the. Talk about the coal corruption which attempts to keep the coal industry in control. Talk about offshore tax shelters which are well understood but never stopped. Talk about Royal Commissions intended to destroy your political opponents. Talk about the TRIPLING of debt frittered away on mismanagement and corrupt behaviour.

    Lets have a conversation OG and Lothario. Yes....you can't. The only arrows you have are smear, propaganda and lies. And of course picking up your pay packet for what you routinely post.
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:05pm
    Really OG, next you will want us like the US where rich people don’t want their taxes used to fund health care for the poor.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    1:09pm
    So labor wants to bring back the boats and put these economic migrants on welfare paid for by pensioners estates when they die
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:57pm
    Labor supported medivac of refugees currently on Manus and Naru as you well know Lothario, but don’t worry Scott Morrison is going to spend a fortune on reopening Christmas Island and producing a strong video to deter people smugglers. He believed he has saved the day, but are we all that gullible
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    2:49pm
    Yes MICK and forcing sales of homes for huge bonds with no real reason why these businesses couldn't build their own hostels like other accommodation providers was also just a means to ensure property ownership was taken away from families. Only the wealthy have an idle $500 000 or can afford home care services.

    It's all about destroying a middle class and creating a pool of low paid service providers.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    3:09pm
    I fully recognise the attack on the middle class Rae. Happening in America as well. That's why they voted in Trump. Problem is Trump is a part of the wealth and no surprise he gave tax cuts to the already over wealthy rich first cab off the rank.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:15pm
    "they are already talking about making any pension paid a debt on your estate as a death tax."

    You are correct there, OG - it seems, though that Labrador wants it to only apply to those with income generating assets outside of family home etc. It seems, on the surface, that taxing a rental property/requiring a payment of a tax on transfer of ownership is reasonable.

    My concern with this is that it will be about five minutes before this is 'necessarily and fairly extended' to everyone - so that bloke with a shack in the Wattigans's inheritors will have to pay....

    We simply need a total revamp of our government and its parties.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:16pm
    .. I note, however, that this and a few other ideas, such as the family home in the assets test, started with the sappy dopes in the Young Liberals... private school kids with a silver spoon stuck up their bum - and then they make them officers...
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:20pm
    Unnecessary vicious attack on private schools and the kids
    You have sunk to a new low
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:59pm
    Let the private schools self-fund! Otherwise they are not private at all.... partial public schools and must be accountable same as public schools - no more extra swimming pools at taxpayer expense. ......
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:24pm
    Lothario - so where do you live...........

    TREBOR - we already have a defacto death tax. Its called Capital Gains Tax. Has exactrly the same effect. If our future citizen destituting governments decide to bring in Death Duties on top of CGT I can see many citizens taking the money and leaving. Not as though Australia is the only good place to live on the planet. I read that New Zealand is attracting a lot of international citizens to it. Not a bad spot in the world either. Governments be warned.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    9:28pm
    Ah - so inheritors of property etc pay CGT? Wasn't up on that - contrary to common belief and unfounded reports, I don't really know everything...

    I would have thought CGT and transfer fees were enough..... Death Duties are out.... talk about zombie legislation...... 'and the wallets of the dead shall open again, and on the Day of Resurrection shall their properties be valued and a debt imposed by computer....
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    9:34pm
    No inheritors don't pay CGT . They only pay when they sell but then that's if its not their principal place of residence .
    If they retain it as an investment then CGT is paid on the difference between sale price and the value of the property as at inherited transfer date , less the beautiful 50% discount if over 1 year of course
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    9:34pm
    No inheritors don't pay CGT . They only pay when they sell but then that's if its not their principal place of residence .
    If they retain it as an investment then CGT is paid on the difference between sale price and the value of the property as at inherited transfer date , less the beautiful 50% discount if over 1 year of course
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    11:07am
    Labor wants to change it to only a 25% discount. Valuations will just increase by the same amount.
    Nascar.
    18th Feb 2019
    12:42pm
    oi harLot once is enough.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    1:04pm
    Anything to contribute ?
    Didn’t think so
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    1:05pm
    Go look in the mirror DH!
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    1:06pm
    Lothario, I thought you were taking a break from this site
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    1:10pm
    Sunday’s I was going to buy couldn’t bear to read the lies posted by Mick , 1984 and their ilk
    They are posting labor propaganda . No facts - just lies
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    3:11pm
    Discussion which can be corroborated are NOT LIES.
    You sling mud and make baseless accusations. They're the only lies Lothario.
    Seriously YOU could not lie straight in bed mate. Tell Scott its not working!
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:17pm
    Welcome to The Lothario Show - the aim of tonight's episode is to primp Loathoario's ego as much as possible by making the entire discussion about him.. winner take all!
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:49pm
    I'm sure we can get the jerk to choke on his smoked salmon and watercress sandwiches TREBOR.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    9:29pm
    I hate salmon..... avocodo now.... getting a tree in the new back yard.... and a few others.... love my gardens ,fruit trees and stuff...
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    10:21pm
    Always figured you for a peasant
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    1:35pm
    Why would anyone be3 a self funded retiree?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUY5fiDZ63o&feature=youtu.be
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    3:14pm
    I ask myself that question occasionally but I am also aware of the long game to roll the pension system into consolidated revenue as well as the removal of cash and replacement with crypto currency. Then the bastards have you and especially if you are in the superannuation system. Hope I'm wrong. I doubt it though as too many of the right people are saying otherwise.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    1:35pm
    Why would anyone be3 a self funded retiree?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUY5fiDZ63o&feature=youtu.be
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    2:00pm
    Yep
    Noel is saying what all intelligent posters like OG, Rainey ,KSS, Not a Bludger and others have been saying on here
    Bowen is a fool and he’s going to put everyone with circa $800k assets on the pension
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    3:14pm
    The tag team in action.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    4:04pm
    Yes, Mick - the tag-team from the Guild of Village Idiots.
    john
    18th Feb 2019
    1:44pm
    The biggest problem for all people getting to or at the retirement age, is knowing comfortably the future financially, when I say comfortably I don't mean comfortable necessarily with money, I mean having a reasonable knowledge of what you will have in your pocket next week next month next year, and you cannot think about dying, because you may not, when your money runs out.
    Point being all governments should be able to make sure that people have good enough money fro a pension to live comfortably until the drop off the perch.
    But no government ever has.
    Every day in " Your Life Choices " we see from pensioners stories where people have NO CHOICES, and just get, by if that.
    What misery being broke most of the time when you worked your absolute insides out all your life, you retire because your work was physical and you could not keep going until your eighty or what ever, you may not have wanted to keep working , but those who do a majority would be those who have employment where they don't have to break a back or a leg or shoulder on the job!
    So it all comes down to THE morality of the party in OFFICE, OR THE WHOLE SYSTEMS MORALITY.
    No pensioner should have to struggle, not one!
    But many do ? Who knows why a government in a rich nation like this , cannot make life easy for all those who have given their time in life to decent work!
    At the end they are left confused and baffled with forms and rules that sometimes even centrelink staff don't understand. What is also strange is my part pension which is quite small but helpful dropped last assessment by $3 dollars, now that is laughable , its about 14 cents a day, why would an operation be paying a salary to someone to work that miniscule amount out. I realise there may be bigger amounts but mine was ridiculous , and I was one of thousands who went through hoops to get a back up part pension did it twice before I got a cent.
    My point in all this is there is a simple answer to pension confusion, that is for a government to once and for all be honest and re regulate the whole old age pension set up, to two things total fairness to all, which is not happening now, and the other is lift the level of pension rate so that when you get a rise , it doesn't just get you another cup of tea a fortnight in your OAP.
    That is the dilemma that faces both Lib and Lab and Nats, and none of them have ever worked it out fairly, never. And yet we see wastage with money flying around all over the place jobs being lost on stupid ideas , people forever struggling in a place that shouldn't , we see we never learn.
    One day we may get sense for everything??? But sooner or later this pensioner problem has to be handled with decency and compassion instead of it being a nightmare for some, , it take a good government, the one now hasn't fixed it and the next one Labor perhaps have not got the blood in them for the average Australian that Labor used to have , they have also lost their way as far as their public rank and file people, not meaning unions there , but the ALP made up of unions has also forgotten what a union is for, we are in quite a terrible bind right now but we can fix it, if the voter stops putting independents in that make government by the winner impossible.
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    2:56pm
    Great comment. We keep voting in Independents because both the Government and the Opposition have lost our trust. We don't want either to have too much power. It's a impossible situation alright.
    Rocky2
    18th Feb 2019
    2:00pm
    Politicans forget how have thay rippoff the aged. Australia's STOLEN Aged Pension, this will open your eyes to our politician's lies, “The Aged Pension.” Well, it certainly was collected, but it amassed such huge amounts, this government and those preceding, couldn’t help themselves and have spent billions of it over the years in a manner they had no right to. “the money earned by the people themselves through hard work and often deprivation ( as a legislation obligation part thereof was collected by the Tax Department for this very purpose ) was in fact and still is, collected as a tax originally, specifically and intentionally so as to fund, “The Aged Pension.”
    To dispel some misinformation currently being promoted by Party Politicians and their spin doctors and lying ex Ministers, listed here are some historical facts every Australian, especially the young who are under the miss-guided belief and/or assumption that they are funding the Aged Pension from their current hard work; They Are Not, they’re funding their own Pension Fund; a fund that governments have no intention of paying and to add insult to injury, legislate to force you to pay into a Super Fund to boot.
    1939-1945 – WORLD WAR II
    1942-1943
    As a Wartime measure, the Federal Government gained sole control over Australian Income Tax. Labor Prime Minister ( Ben Chifley ) introduced three bills to establish the National Welfare Fund, to be financed by a Compulsory Contribution (levy) of one and sixpence in the Pound (20/- ) on all personal income.
    1946
    Opposition Leader ( Robert Menzies ) stated that the Compulsory Contribution (levy) should be kept completely separate. That it should be shown separately on the Taxation Assessment and paid straight into a “TRUST” account and not mixed with the General Revenue.
    Menzies said “The stigma of charity should be removed from the Age Pension.” ”It should be an entitlement earned by the person’s personal contribution to the fund.”
    Prime Minister Chifley agreed and established The National Welfare fund as at 1/1/1946. A “Trust” Fund with the Parliament as “Trustee.”
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) commenced as at 1st January 1946.
    It was shown separately on the personal Tax Assessments for 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950
    and the compulsory levy was properly paid straight into the Special “Trust” fund
    and Welfare claims were paid out of the fund.
    The balance in the fund in 1950 was almost 100 Million Pounds.
    1949 Robert Menzies became Prime Minister and he introduced Bills to amend the acts governing the National Welfare Funds.
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) was then grouped with the Taxation Assessment and appeared as one amount on the Taxation Assessments and was paid as one straight into the Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1951-1985
    The Compulsory levy of 7.5% now included in the tax continued to be collected and placed in the Consolidated Revenue Account treated as General Revenue and spent, until 1985.
    1974-1975
    Labor Prime Minister ( Gough Whitlam ) abolished income test for all persons 70 years of age and over and paid pensions to all people over that age.
    1975
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) cancelled the Withlam achievement of abolishing the test for all 70 years of age and over.
    1977
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) with Treasurer Philip Lynch ) transferred the balance in the Welfare Fund Account ( approximately $ 470.000.000 ) to Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1985
    Australian Labor Government repealed acts No. 39, 40, and 41 of 1945 ( The National Welfare Fund Acts ). Thus the funds finally ceased to exist yet the 7.5% levy continued to be collected as a proportion of the Income Tax revenue. It also introduced the (much maligned) Income and Asset Tests, thereby excluding millions of levy and tax paying Australians from receiving Social Services Pensions.
    This money these self funded contributions paid as a percentage of the total income tax collections are today worth far more than the amount of means tested pensions paid out.
    Actuaries have calculated the non-means tested entitlement due to each retiree, today is in excess of $ 500 per week.
    This surely debunks the politicians claim that the generation are paying a proportion of their current taxes to cover the payments made to pensioners. The obvious short fall has been swallowed by the government’s Taxation Black Hole.
    The historical summary above highlights the fact that politicians of opposing political parties each contributed to the agenda to destroy the entitlement as it was intended why ?
    When it clearly would not have been the will of the people.
    While Party Politicians are controlled by a few people who are hidden from public view yet are open to Manipulation and Outright Corruption , there can be no certainty of the payment of pensions.
    Only a majority of truly Independent representatives can bring about a change from Government under corporate control, to Government for the People, of the People, by the People.
    Just because a cabal of political miscreants become so GREEDY and they change the way a tax looks in the Ledgers,
    IN NO WAY REMOVES THE FACT THAT THIS TAX IS TILL COLLECTED AND IS SO COLLECTED STILL TO THIS DAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE SUPPLY AND CONTINUATION OF THE OLD AGE PENSION.
    A STIPEND TO THE ELDERLY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES OF THEIR LIVES TO BUILD A NATION AND HAVE FROM WORKING DAY ONE OF THEIR LIVES, BEEN PAYING 7% PLUS OF THEIR TAXES DIRECTLY TOWARDS THIS PENSION.
    The old age pension is not a privilege;
    Is not a right;
    Is not a gift;
    Is not even welfare;
    The Old Age Pension is an asset;
    Owned and accrued by each Australian Citizen who has funded this asset from their very own purse.
    The governments of the day were employed to amass, secure, invest and manage a fund that in its first 5 years bulged to almost 100.000.000 Pounds ( am amount in that day that equated in that day in this day’s dollars and cents, to approximately AU $240 million give or take a million or two ).
    They did amass, secure, invest and manage and the figures were colossal and frightening to them and hence they conspired to hide them back into the Consolidated Revenue Bucket and to this day, the bucket has been brimming with a 7.5% tax collected specifically and only, for the Old Age Pension.
    Now young Australians ! You are not paying for the welfare of Baby boomers, you are paying for yourselves, new immigrants, the needy in society requiring social services and welfare, dole recipients and the bludgers, – BUT YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE OLD PENSION OF ELDERLY AUSTRALIANS WHO HAVE WORKED ALL THEIR LIVES IN THIS COUNTRY AND PAID THEIR DUE FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. Nick Minchin on the Tony Jones ABC TV Program Q & A 11/09/2008 stated quite clearly that funds were not, have not and are not collected and held in a bank account waiting for the government to pay it out in the form of the Old Age Pension, or words that meant, “exactly this.”
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:44pm
    Wait for the nay-sayers to try to tell you it was never collected, was never folded into 'consolidated revenue' and then spent and thus 'lost' forever, leaving the politicians a free run at accusing the pensioners of being bludgers and parasites and leeches on society and greedy as well for owning a home and a car, maybe even a boat and a Windbag to run around in and enjoy the sunset years of life a bit after decades of hard work, self-sacrifice and often dire pain and suffering - especially under certain spools of government legislation.

    Of such things are revolutions wrought....
    GeorgeM
    18th Feb 2019
    10:08pm
    Badly overdue - a fight by the people (revolution indeed) for Universal Aged Pension using the massive taxes already collected, with NO tests except Age (65 years) and Residency (say 15 years, else a reduced amount for subsistence).

    Nothing will happen until people (all of you Retirees and pre-Retirees in particular) put up a fight - write to your MPs and DEMAND your right to receive this, else vote that MP last in preferences if you do not get the support for this. Shake 'em up people!
    Rocky2
    18th Feb 2019
    2:00pm
    Politicans forget how have thay rippoff the aged. Australia's STOLEN Aged Pension, this will open your eyes to our politician's lies, “The Aged Pension.” Well, it certainly was collected, but it amassed such huge amounts, this government and those preceding, couldn’t help themselves and have spent billions of it over the years in a manner they had no right to. “the money earned by the people themselves through hard work and often deprivation ( as a legislation obligation part thereof was collected by the Tax Department for this very purpose ) was in fact and still is, collected as a tax originally, specifically and intentionally so as to fund, “The Aged Pension.”
    To dispel some misinformation currently being promoted by Party Politicians and their spin doctors and lying ex Ministers, listed here are some historical facts every Australian, especially the young who are under the miss-guided belief and/or assumption that they are funding the Aged Pension from their current hard work; They Are Not, they’re funding their own Pension Fund; a fund that governments have no intention of paying and to add insult to injury, legislate to force you to pay into a Super Fund to boot.
    1939-1945 – WORLD WAR II
    1942-1943
    As a Wartime measure, the Federal Government gained sole control over Australian Income Tax. Labor Prime Minister ( Ben Chifley ) introduced three bills to establish the National Welfare Fund, to be financed by a Compulsory Contribution (levy) of one and sixpence in the Pound (20/- ) on all personal income.
    1946
    Opposition Leader ( Robert Menzies ) stated that the Compulsory Contribution (levy) should be kept completely separate. That it should be shown separately on the Taxation Assessment and paid straight into a “TRUST” account and not mixed with the General Revenue.
    Menzies said “The stigma of charity should be removed from the Age Pension.” ”It should be an entitlement earned by the person’s personal contribution to the fund.”
    Prime Minister Chifley agreed and established The National Welfare fund as at 1/1/1946. A “Trust” Fund with the Parliament as “Trustee.”
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) commenced as at 1st January 1946.
    It was shown separately on the personal Tax Assessments for 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950
    and the compulsory levy was properly paid straight into the Special “Trust” fund
    and Welfare claims were paid out of the fund.
    The balance in the fund in 1950 was almost 100 Million Pounds.
    1949 Robert Menzies became Prime Minister and he introduced Bills to amend the acts governing the National Welfare Funds.
    The Compulsory Contributions (levy) was then grouped with the Taxation Assessment and appeared as one amount on the Taxation Assessments and was paid as one straight into the Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1951-1985
    The Compulsory levy of 7.5% now included in the tax continued to be collected and placed in the Consolidated Revenue Account treated as General Revenue and spent, until 1985.
    1974-1975
    Labor Prime Minister ( Gough Whitlam ) abolished income test for all persons 70 years of age and over and paid pensions to all people over that age.
    1975
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) cancelled the Withlam achievement of abolishing the test for all 70 years of age and over.
    1977
    Liberal Prime Minister ( Malcolm Fraser ) with Treasurer Philip Lynch ) transferred the balance in the Welfare Fund Account ( approximately $ 470.000.000 ) to Consolidated Revenue Account.
    1985
    Australian Labor Government repealed acts No. 39, 40, and 41 of 1945 ( The National Welfare Fund Acts ). Thus the funds finally ceased to exist yet the 7.5% levy continued to be collected as a proportion of the Income Tax revenue. It also introduced the (much maligned) Income and Asset Tests, thereby excluding millions of levy and tax paying Australians from receiving Social Services Pensions.
    This money these self funded contributions paid as a percentage of the total income tax collections are today worth far more than the amount of means tested pensions paid out.
    Actuaries have calculated the non-means tested entitlement due to each retiree, today is in excess of $ 500 per week.
    This surely debunks the politicians claim that the generation are paying a proportion of their current taxes to cover the payments made to pensioners. The obvious short fall has been swallowed by the government’s Taxation Black Hole.
    The historical summary above highlights the fact that politicians of opposing political parties each contributed to the agenda to destroy the entitlement as it was intended why ?
    When it clearly would not have been the will of the people.
    While Party Politicians are controlled by a few people who are hidden from public view yet are open to Manipulation and Outright Corruption , there can be no certainty of the payment of pensions.
    Only a majority of truly Independent representatives can bring about a change from Government under corporate control, to Government for the People, of the People, by the People.
    Just because a cabal of political miscreants become so GREEDY and they change the way a tax looks in the Ledgers,
    IN NO WAY REMOVES THE FACT THAT THIS TAX IS TILL COLLECTED AND IS SO COLLECTED STILL TO THIS DAY TO PROVIDE FOR THE SUPPLY AND CONTINUATION OF THE OLD AGE PENSION.
    A STIPEND TO THE ELDERLY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES OF THEIR LIVES TO BUILD A NATION AND HAVE FROM WORKING DAY ONE OF THEIR LIVES, BEEN PAYING 7% PLUS OF THEIR TAXES DIRECTLY TOWARDS THIS PENSION.
    The old age pension is not a privilege;
    Is not a right;
    Is not a gift;
    Is not even welfare;
    The Old Age Pension is an asset;
    Owned and accrued by each Australian Citizen who has funded this asset from their very own purse.
    The governments of the day were employed to amass, secure, invest and manage a fund that in its first 5 years bulged to almost 100.000.000 Pounds ( am amount in that day that equated in that day in this day’s dollars and cents, to approximately AU $240 million give or take a million or two ).
    They did amass, secure, invest and manage and the figures were colossal and frightening to them and hence they conspired to hide them back into the Consolidated Revenue Bucket and to this day, the bucket has been brimming with a 7.5% tax collected specifically and only, for the Old Age Pension.
    Now young Australians ! You are not paying for the welfare of Baby boomers, you are paying for yourselves, new immigrants, the needy in society requiring social services and welfare, dole recipients and the bludgers, – BUT YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE OLD PENSION OF ELDERLY AUSTRALIANS WHO HAVE WORKED ALL THEIR LIVES IN THIS COUNTRY AND PAID THEIR DUE FAIR SHARE OF TAXES. Nick Minchin on the Tony Jones ABC TV Program Q & A 11/09/2008 stated quite clearly that funds were not, have not and are not collected and held in a bank account waiting for the government to pay it out in the form of the Old Age Pension, or words that meant, “exactly this.”
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    2:53pm
    That was last century.
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    3:00pm
    Yes OG doesn't make it right and we were paying it last century for use now at the age of 65 which was the agreement.

    If you bought CBA shares at float should they be confiscated now because that was last century?
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:44pm
    Touche` ......
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    3:52pm
    Not a problem as I no longer have any CBA shares.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    4:01pm
    You understand the word 'example' don't you, OG? Stop making a spectacle of yourself - people are watching...
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    4:02pm
    Heeeey - a few weeks back you were going to snap up bank shares that had collapsed during the banking Royal Commission - what happened to that plan?
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    4:26pm
    Honestly OG whatever shares you do have that were bought last century. In fact franking credits from shares bought last century. Your argument is childish and I'm surprised as I thought you were smart. Unless of course you only can see anything from your own viewpoint ever.

    We paid last century for now. So did you if you paid tax. We should all get the aged pension. Everyone no discrimination.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    4:51pm
    What OG meant and I agree is “stop living in the past”
    Labor made the decision to stop universal pension and introduce means testing
    Labor took any balance from the pension levy and poured it into consolidated revenue

    And now labor wants to increase welfare spending 2 fold by eliminating franking credits
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    5:46pm
    There was a universal pension bounded by assets and income tests....no real difference today.

    The ISSUE is that the money for pensions was collected and is still being collected, and there is no excuse from any party to say otherwise. Rolling it into consolidated revenue and then spending it unwisely is no excuse for not paying what is now due.

    If you borrowed money for years and spent it on the dog races, and suddenly those you borrowed it from were due to be paid - how do you imagine you'd go?

    "Joey... Luig (my boy)... I wan' you ta go 'roun' dat Lothario, sort out his loans... don' worry about the courts they nothin'.... just break his legs gently, then get the money, capisce?"

    Maybe the citizens of Australia need a class action to recover their pension rights.... better dat dan we break deir legs, capisce?
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:27pm
    I suspect it would take broken legs. Of course you'd have to get past the police and army. These people may be criminals in the true sense of the word but they are in control. He who commands the army always wins no matter how crooked.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    3:04pm
    Where is the incentive to save for your retirement?

    You are taxed more retired than when you were working on the same income.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4GaDrL6Sfc&feature=youtu.be
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    3:16pm
    Err? Ever heard of Salary Sacrifice to avoid paying proper taxes? The wealthy love it and have gorged themselves until the music was turned down a few years ago.
    There are ways and the wealthy know all of them. You?????
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    3:18pm
    Dumb - max you can sacrifice is $25k
    It’s taxed at 15% going in
    Anything more is taxed at highest marginal rate
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    3:45pm
    Mick did say 'before the music was turned down' ... do keep up in class, Lothario.... get a grip on yourself man, people are watching...
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    3:47pm
    Mick you now work on contracts not wages and you can write off nearly all your income.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    3:47pm
    Mick you now work on contracts not wages and you can write off nearly all your income.
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:32pm
    Lothario - you really are short of a few quid mate.

    EXAMPLE: taxpayer on the highest tax rate (48%) decides to put the max into super. His tax rate drops to 15%. The earnings for the decades his money is in super is also (only) taxed at 15%. When you compound that it is a huge figure after 40 years. Funny how you did not mention that.
    Same person was able to salary sacrifice as much as he liked BEFORE the government ended the casino and introduced the cap. You must be very unhappy about that too. Not us?

    As TREBOR often says you are a total clown. A dishonest one at that who deceived readers. Sounds like the biblical definition of 'the devil'.
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    11:11am
    Mick anyone on 48% tax rate will be charged 30% tax when their money goes into super now.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    3:04pm
    Where is the incentive to save for your retirement?

    You are taxed more retired than when you were working on the same income.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4GaDrL6Sfc&feature=youtu.be
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    5:47pm
    Not much, if any, under this Government of Two Parties - The Tag Team.... unless you are a fat cat with countless hidey holes for income....
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:34pm
    Answer: SALARY SACRIFICE including earnings of the fund. Best deal in town...unless a future (LNP) government steals it from you. Family home in the assets test anyone?
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    10:31pm
    Yes Mick, I used it myself but at one stage on top of salary sacrifice you could also put up to $1M into super after tax and keep it in a low tax environment. Then there was a scheme to encourage low income earners to build up super where if you put in extra $3,000 ( forget exact amount) but then the government boosted by an extra $1,500. Of course it was mostly the well off who could afford to do so. Then retire and it’s all tax free age 60. It was all to be used to fund your own retirement, and so it should be. Great but now those with up to $1.6M in a self managed fund who have it all in Australian Shares want thousands of dollars in Franking credits on top. They worked within the rules at the time. However, none of this was possible for low income earners. Yet, wealthy SFR somehow now think that their taxes paid for the OAP even though they reduced tax substantially through salary sacrifice.
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    10:39pm
    That’s $1.6M in pension mode, amounts over this threshold since the government tightened the
    Rules can still be held in accummulation mode in a seperate super account with generous tax benefits,
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    10:43pm
    Sundays - you realise that if someone ahs $1.6M in Aussie shares they will keep all their franking credits don't you . Perhaps not - youre too thick
    Its thos ewith $50k or $10 K or even $1 k who are SFR's on $20,000 or $ 30,000 who will lose it
    Talk about thick
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    10:43pm
    Sundays - you realise that if someone ahs $1.6M in Aussie shares they will keep all their franking credits don't you . Perhaps not - youre too thick
    Its thos ewith $50k or $10 K or even $1 k who are SFR's on $20,000 or $ 30,000 who will lose it
    Talk about thick
    Sundays
    18th Feb 2019
    10:56pm
    Enlighten me, if they have $1.6M in a SMSF in pension mode, drawing income but not paying any tax how will they keep their Franking credits.
    TREBOR
    19th Feb 2019
    8:49am
    $1,600,000 @ (e.g.) 4% = $64,000, probably a low figure...

    Enlighten us, Lothario... is it 'tax-free' because it is a 'pension fund' - ergo - does that mean someone can continue to buy more and more shares and thus accrue more and more income - always without paying tax?

    Seems to me that person is still 'working' in trading shares....
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    11:18am
    if you have $1.6 million or more in SMSF then if you lose your franking credits you can just change your investments. It's so much easy to get around than if they scrap the no tax on super after 60. These people are laughing as they thought they would have to pay more tax but they get off scott free.

    It's those with same balances in SMSFs that will be affected as they wont be able to get the returns they do now on alternative investments and their super will be eroded lots faster with lower returns. These people need their 5% to live but those with bigger super balances don't or only some of it. They can therefore reinvest it and keep their capital intact.
    OlderandWiser
    18th Feb 2019
    3:59pm
    Get rid of FC as the ALP want to. put in place a universal pension as per the NZ model. Everyone pays tax who earns an income whether by working, investments, whatever. Includes taxing income streams & super income as a normal income instead of being tax free.
    If by chance you lose money by bad investing or a market downturn like the GFC then you should be able to offset that lose over a number of years just like the rich & wealthy multinationals do.
    The ATO just dropped corporate tax data and more than 700 companies paid nothing. There were 732 companies who paid NO tax in Australia in the 2015-16 financial year. Collectively, their income was more than $500 billion. It's all in a dataset on corporate tax released by the Australian Tax Office. Dec 2017
    Rae
    18th Feb 2019
    4:33pm
    Yes and to accommodate that $500 billion they take $2 billion here from that retired group and $2.2 billion there and $6 billion in FC and so on. All to accommodate a few foreign oligarchs.
    We need a Government working for us again. It's ludicrous.

    The changes to retirement rules would be costing a lot to administer. I wonder if the saved anything or if it was just Bullies doing their thing because they could.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    4:53pm
    Nonsense
    Company pay tax on taxable income
    Sometimes the tax is deferred due to timing difference
    Did you bother to check their balance sheet to ascertain the deferred tax liabilities ?
    Obviously not
    Duh !
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    5:48pm
    Some pay no tax year after year - no income - but they can afford to pay dividends.....
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    5:54pm
    Another stupid statement from Trebor
    Companies can only pay dividends out of profits
    If they have no income they have no profits
    Kapish ???
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    5:54pm
    Another stupid statement from Trebor
    Companies can only pay dividends out of profits
    If they have no income they have no profits
    Kapish ???
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:31pm
    Dividends can only be paid out of profits. Capital return can be paid out the companies capital. Dividends are taxable capital returns are not.
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:34pm
    1964 You comments tell me you have no idea how finance works what so ever. To make matters worse your post is full jealous envy too.

    What a lot of BS.
    OlderandWiser
    18th Feb 2019
    6:40pm
    Duh Lothario the twit, they paid NO Tax, for years even when making profit because they are allowed to offset losses years ago. Check their balance sheets, you're a joke mate. That's the ATO job & the current legislation allows for companies to rip off Billions from the Australian coffers. Get educated & stop waffling bullshit.
    My original post was from the ATO knuckle head
    Old Geezer
    18th Feb 2019
    6:47pm
    1984 well we will soon have undercapitalised debt ridden companies that pay interest instead of tax and dividends like many other parts of the world.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    7:04pm
    If it’s the job of the ATO , then leave it to the ATO collect the correct tax and don’t confuse yourself with your limited understanding of the tax system
    I repeat companies cannot pay dividends out of retained losses - dumb dumb
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:37pm
    Good post 1984. Ignore brain dead Lothario. He's a paid troll so everything he posts is pretty well dishonest and unfactual.

    I agree with you 1984 but the powers that be, both sides, only want to take more and more every year to fund their irresponsible waste and frivolous conduct. Maybe we need a Royal Commission into politicians and their parties.
    TREBOR
    18th Feb 2019
    9:34pm
    Always money for dividends.. just not for tax.... laughable...
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    10:31pm
    Mick - I challenge you to disprove anything ive said in my replies to 1984's idiotic post

    And Trebore's last comment further proves he's an idiot.

    Companies cannot pay dividends out of retained losses which means they are paid out of profits which will be subject to tax the timing of which is in compliance with tax laws

    Any company paying franked dividends - like the mining sector mostly does is using franking credits derived out of taxed profits
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2019
    10:31pm
    Mick - I challenge you to disprove anything ive said in my replies to 1984's idiotic post

    And Trebore's last comment further proves he's an idiot.

    Companies cannot pay dividends out of retained losses which means they are paid out of profits which will be subject to tax the timing of which is in compliance with tax laws

    Any company paying franked dividends - like the mining sector mostly does is using franking credits derived out of taxed profits
    TREBOR
    19th Feb 2019
    7:56pm
    Shows how the rules need to be tightened, eh, Lothario?

    Stupid is not being able to see how things are, how they could be, and how they need to change... stupid is living in the past...............
    MICK
    18th Feb 2019
    8:38pm
    You're getting a great bite here Leon. Was that your intention?
    OlderandWiser
    19th Feb 2019
    1:11am
    For all those whinging & squealing like little piggies this is the latest on who cares about your FC. sooner the ALP get in & fix this rort the better.
    For those little piggies squealing that they will lose 10s of thousands of dollars my advice is to have a plan in place. Don't whing as the majority don't give a rats & that includes those that may lose some money.
    Suck it up princesses.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-18/these-wealthy-retirees-are-happy-to-see-the-end-of-franking/10815854
    Rae
    19th Feb 2019
    7:38am
    The only people who will suffer will be the small business owners and employees who lose their jobs and houses etc when the $11 billion goes from the hands of retirees in Australia into foreign corporation coffers. That's where it will go. Not to schools or hospitals. State responsibilities and the FEDs have ensured the States are broke from all that Privatisation.

    You could write a book about how to destroy a strong welfare nation by just listing the goings on over the past 4 decades.

    And our wealth rests on selling coal which is increasingly unwanted as the fight to save the planet continues.

    Transferring from coal to agriculture, education, renewables and tourism would be a great idea for sustainability. Pity the Miners Council is running the show.
    Sundays
    19th Feb 2019
    9:10am
    1984, when Chris Richardson, a partner at Deloitte and one of Australia’s leading economists explains that Franking credits are the tax paid on dividends by companies and not individuals people will take notice. A lot more credibility than Lothario, OG, OGR et al. Close the loophole. I do understand that SFR at the lower scale will lose income and that is always difficult but they have notice. When the Liberals changed the Asset test, people had no notice and there was real pain. I watched 7.30 report and not all SFR disagree with Shortens proposal, and certainly young people are more focused on other issues
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    11:26am
    1984 did you realise that that couple on the boat had a tax free income of $100,000 each so losing $8000 in franking credits out of $200,000 was peanuts compared to what they would pay if taxed on their total income. They are laughing at Labor for such a stupid policy.

    The fact that the ATO increases your income by the amount of franking credits means those franking credits belong to you as they are booked in your ledger. Not refunding those franking credits is therefore unconstitutional under s51 of our constitution.

    I suggest you learn how all this stuff works and then you will be able to make an informed decision but with your lack of knowledge now you will not be making an informed decision at all.
    Sundays
    19th Feb 2019
    11:54am
    No one is going to scrap the no tax on super OG. That would be political suicide especially as governments of both persuasions have sold it to voters as a reason to invest in Super. Also it would affect the retirement incomes of parliamentarians and retired business people, and we can’t have that.
    Old Geezer
    19th Feb 2019
    11:58am
    Exactly Sundays but that is what the real problem is not imputation credits.

    Did you know that here is not one MP affected by the franking credit proposal either?
    TREBOR
    19th Feb 2019
    7:57pm
    Cunning devils..... they always get in or out first ....
    solmon52
    20th Feb 2019
    11:16am
    Should have taken my super and spent it or hid it then i could be controlled by the govt and get a full govt aged pention
    solmon52
    20th Feb 2019
    11:29am
    If they change it I maybe best to stop being on a self funded pension and go back to work full time. I can spend my current super then retire on a full pension. Or leave the country for two years and enjoy. I was going to do that but came down with leukemia so had to stay for medical reasons.
    Blinky
    21st Feb 2019
    3:49pm
    Age pensioners r pensioners cause they cant afford to be self-sufficient. They dont have shares n lots of money 8n the bank.
    If the govt really gives a hoot about pensioners they should:
    A. Increase the pension.
    B. Increase the meagre asset test as they r now pinching $3 x every $1k pensioners may have over the threshold. That is robbing the poor, and it's a shame!!!
    Sassy
    3rd Mar 2019
    11:48am
    I am 71 years old and have no savings or a home. I live off my pension cheque which is not enough to survive after paying rent. Why doesn't the government allow pensioners in this situation to keep their full pension if able to work to survive. Due to health issues after having cancer, and my age, it is virtually impossible to even find a job. I have no children for support either.
    Sassy
    3rd Mar 2019
    11:48am
    I am 71 years old and have no savings or a home. I live off my pension cheque which is not enough to survive after paying rent. Why doesn't the government allow pensioners in this situation to keep their full pension if able to work to survive. Due to health issues after having cancer, and my age, it is virtually impossible to even find a job. I have no children for support either.