Help poorest pensioners first, not all pensioners, says advocacy group

Pensioners group seeks a permanent pension hardship supplement.

Help poorest pensioners first, not all pensioners, says advocacy group

The federal government must make provision for pensioners experiencing hardship and older jobless Australians in next Tuesday’s Federal Budget, says advocacy group the Combined Pensioners and Superannuants Association (CPSA).

While social services minister Anne Ruston has indicated there will be a cash boost for age pensioners in the budget after the September indexation adjustment was abandoned, the CPSA says the federal government must help the pensioners who are doing it hardest and not all age pensioners.

It wants the government to provide an additional permanent pension hardship supplement for the poorest pensioners, singles without assets and without private income, arguing that the living standard of single pensioners with no other source of income hovers just above the poverty line.

CPSA policy manager Paul Versteege says that rather than provide another $750 COVID payment, which would go to all pensioners, the government should target those who are most in need. “The majority of single full rate pensioners are widows and widowers, who have faced a drop in their pension of 40 per cent after the death of their partner,” he said.

The CPSA is also urging the government to continue to assist people over 55 who can’t find a job. A fortnightly COVID-19 supplement to the JobSeeker payment is set to be reduced from $550 to $250 after 31 December.

JobSeeker without the COVID-19 supplement is $565.70 per fortnight, almost 40 per cent less than the pension, the CPSA said in a statement. “Single pensioners know how hard it is to survive on $933.40 a fortnight.”

It says the government must increase the rate of JobSeeker permanently for everyone who is unemployed, including people over 55 who are effectively retired but haven’t reached pension age yet.

“The number of unemployed people over 55 has shot up,” it says, “as unemployment in every age cohort has shot up.

“Before COVID-19, there were 196,000 people over 55 on unemployment benefits. The chance of them finding employment was low then, but now there are 318,000 people over 55 on unemployment benefits, an increase of more than 60 per cent, finding a job has become even harder.”

The CPSA also advocates that the government should put in place a scheme aimed at getting people over 55 back into paid work.

“People over 55 have plenty to offer and will mostly live another 25 to 30 years,” it says. “They should not be relegated to permanent unemployment and mutual obligation ‘volunteer’ work. They need jobs!”

With the aged care royal commission due to hand down its report next February, the CPSA is seeking definitive action on the aged care system – now. “This has been shown up as deficient and failing many of the people who rely on it,” it said in a statement. “More home care packages and more money for more and better qualified nursing home staffing is what is required.

“No need to wait until February next year, when the commission delivers its final report: enough has come out to warrant immediate action.”

Anglicare has also called on the government to provide more support for age pensioners, particularly those who rent, after it released research that found only a small portion of the 77,000 rental listings across the country were affordable for those on a pension.

“Older people and people with disability are at greater risk during this pandemic,” said executive director of Anglicare Australia, Kasy Chambers. “But instead of getting more support, they’ve been left behind.

“Our Rental Affordability Update shows that an age pensioner can afford 0.8 per cent of rental listings across Australia. That’s even fewer than our last snapshot in March. Disability Support Pensioners face an even tougher situation. They can afford just 0.3 per cent.”

Ms Chambers wants the government to address a shortfall of 400,000 social homes, warning that if it fails to do so, Australian pensioners will be “left to the mercy of the market”.

Are you supportive of the CPSA call for a permanent ‘hardship’ supplement? Or should the base rate of the Age Pension be lifted?

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    COMMENTS

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    Paddington
    1st Oct 2020
    3:52pm
    That seems a good idea and fair.
    Joy Anne
    1st Oct 2020
    5:33pm
    Yes totally agree. We live below poverty now. Paying $700 a fortnight in rent before anything else.
    Arvo
    1st Oct 2020
    6:13pm
    Joy Anne--Retired people can move to large regional towns with infrastructure similar to capital cities and rent a 2-bedroom unit for $380 to $400 per fortnight...do your research.
    Mariner
    1st Oct 2020
    6:56pm
    Arvo - I hear you but you are wrong about fortnight. I live in one of those regional towns and the rent could be right but it is a WEEK not a fortnight. Live in a unit, value about $475000 but if I needed to rent it the costs would be $500 a week. Simple really: body corp is $3000 and the council rates $2500. Repairs are all extra. The services are here as you say but I am talking about a place that does have more than one pub and it does have public transport.
    Youngagain
    1st Oct 2020
    9:09pm
    A friend leases a 4 bed/2 bath brick and tile home with large rumpus room, in a prime location, for $300 per week. In the same large regional town, there are lovely 2-bed apartments on offer for $150 per week and even older style worker cottages for around $160 per week.

    Where I live, you can rent a very decent small cottage or apartment for $180 per week and there are lots of opportunities for shared accommodation with own bedroom and bath and often a sitting room as well for $120 per week including power, water, Fox, phone and Internet. I have friends who live in onsite caravans or little cottages in caravan parks that they bought for less than $15,000 and they pay $90 per week for a site with power and water and use of the park BBQ area, laundry and swimming pool. I also know several folk who get FREE accommodation in return for very light care-taking duties on properties or in campgrounds or leisure parks. There ARE options for those with limited means. The problem is that when other people are footing the bill, too many think the money grows on trees and they are entitled to just pluck it off to indulge all their wants.

    A friend's parents started married life in a tent on the showgrounds, and lived there for 4 years - 2 of that with a baby - while saving a house deposit. Now they are expected to fund a much more comfortable lifestyle for folk who would never dream of tolerating that sort of hardship, but just expect taxpayers to compensate for the fact that they spent like drunken sailors all their working life. I'm not surprised that they are thoroughly incensed at the attack on homeowners and self-funded retirees, and lacking in sympathy for a lot of the renters who are screaming for more.

    Mariner, I hear you, but I don't see why the taxpayer should supply anyone with that sort of accommodation. Many SFRs own units worth less than $475,000 and get NOTHING from the taxpayer purse.
    Mariner
    1st Oct 2020
    10:38pm
    You must live somewhere cheaper, Youngagain. Here you would not get anything like that. Of course you can buy a cottage in a van park but then the fees are $210 a week for which of course you collect rent assistance since you do not pay council rates. Purchase price is from $58'000 to over $125'000. Some parks here have closed on the tenants were told to pack up their manufactured homes and find somewhere else. But good luck to you and your friends for finding a cheaper place.
    panos
    1st Oct 2020
    4:29pm
    Just wait till the folks on part pensions and SFR start up.... I will be waiting for there obligatory stuff you comments for not saving and not having a house etc etc.
    Triss
    1st Oct 2020
    4:48pm
    On the other hand, pianos, if the government decides to assess everyone’s house then home owners will also be struggling to survive.
    Old Silver Fox
    1st Oct 2020
    5:00pm
    You won’t have to worry about owning a house when the “One World” agenda kicks in. It will be taken off you and owned by the state. By the way, that spare bedroom you have for the grandkids to come and stay in; that will be gone too. They will give it to some illegal immigrant and their family to use. You will share the bathroom, kitchen and they will get priority over what TV shows will be shown. Communism...a veritable utopia for the lame brained and spendthrifts thats think the government owes them a living.
    panos
    1st Oct 2020
    5:42pm
    Oh boy this ones a corker, you need not worry. A certain country with a 1.4 billion population will nuke the place before we have to worry.

    If Co-vid 19 does not get you fallout will, they tried with covid now they will try the rest.
    Old Silver Fox
    1st Oct 2020
    5:56pm
    How about Panos you STOP SCAREMONGERING about the Chinese flu. In excess of 99.75% that contract it only suffer mild symptoms. You are, obviously, one of the 60% that think Chairman “Delusional Dan” is doing a good job; Stockholm Syndrome at it’s worst. Stop listening to main stream media and do some research for yourself; then go lobby your stupid, cowardly politicians to reinstate HCQ as an optional treatment dispensed by your GP. You have succumbed to the lies of Big Pharma and their quest to have you sitting in your lounge room, scared witless waiting for them to ride to the rescue with a vaccine that, in all probability, given previous results, will only work for 40 - 60% of recipients. There is at least two sides to every argument. You need to research before you come to a conclusion, especially if you take your ‘facts’ from Ch. 7, 9 and ABC and the other MSM you plug in to.
    Mootnell
    1st Oct 2020
    6:37pm
    I suspect Panos that you are one of those that have your hand out, often, judging by a lot of your comments.
    Personally I know plenty who have wasted their opportunities in life and now stand to benefit.
    Is it any wonder people become resentful, after following the advice of previous governments to support themselves, barely.
    I have no truck with widows and widowers getting a more balanced income after the loss of a partner and I’ve now doubt there are other genuine cases. But by heck I do take umbrage on others who have had the good life and now demand support. I make no apology to you or any other, failure to address this disparity is bog standard for political parties and only serves to pit people like you against others. Stop it!
    Anonymous
    1st Oct 2020
    9:03pm
    You are a grub Panos - I am a self funded retiree and I believe this idea has merit
    kram
    2nd Oct 2020
    2:03pm
    Keep that Red Flag flying Panos. Someone has to re-distrubute the hard won earnings of others and live off the State, having made minimal contributions.
    The low return on shares has upturned the incomes of the elderly placing many SMR under the poverty line
    johnboy
    2nd Oct 2020
    4:44pm
    Im with you panos and tobymyers, stick it to them . take all the rich of here and their will just be us left.
    Youngagain
    3rd Oct 2020
    6:36pm
    Yes, johnboy, you'll be left with a lot of poor dumb whingers who can do nothing to help themselves, let alone the nation.
    Helen
    1st Oct 2020
    4:31pm
    To get the young unemployed off Centrelink, they should be doing farm fruit and vegetable picking. It is bloody good work and money. Get them moving. That would help ease up more money for disability and age pensions.
    panos
    1st Oct 2020
    4:40pm
    Have you ever, ever been picking until you have make no comment.....
    Farside
    1st Oct 2020
    5:27pm
    It's curious that some farms have a few difficulties attracting pickers year after year when they provide appropriate pay and conditions (and avoid misbehaving towards the pickers) and others struggle to find backpackers and migrant workers. It is scarcely surprising some farms in need of pickers cannot attract workers when the backpackers and migrant workers are not around.

    Don't expect young people to enthusiastically up stumps if they cannot expect to make minimum wage after factoring in relocation and living costs.
    Joy Anne
    1st Oct 2020
    5:31pm
    Totally agree
    Mariner
    1st Oct 2020
    7:18pm
    panos - I did work in wineries, picking grapes, carrying them in hods up or down the slopes in Europe but then I grew up in a country where you got no money as a young person. You found a job and should you lose it you then got unemployment benefits. If you found it hard as a bloke you could apply to do your compulsory army service early, thus you were in accommodation and tucker and a sum of money enough to get you a beer and a pack of cigarettes a day. After 18 years of age you could not live in a town with no work - you had to follow the work. Most probably was not different here in the 50-60s (before Whitlam and Jim "mudbath" Cairns).
    Anonymous
    1st Oct 2020
    9:05pm
    Helen -you are entitled to your view ignore panos -
    Buggsie
    1st Oct 2020
    4:31pm
    WE should never forget that a very large and influential group within the Liberal Party is completely opposed to any and all forms of "welfare" support. Don't ever expect fairness or compassion from the LNP - its in their genes to deny support to the poor, those out of work, the aged, people with disabilities etc. By the way, this same LNP group word dismantle Medicare and the PBS if they could get away with it - yet many of us in need keep voting them into power. Where's our common sense?
    Old Silver Fox
    1st Oct 2020
    4:54pm
    You are welcome to vote for “Two Way” Albo. The last time I checked it was a free country...but only just...Victoria has fallen and Queensland is on the brink. The other states are teetering. Communist utopia. Where everyone, apart from the ruling class, are relegated to the lowest common denominator. Try moaning about the lack of money to play the pokies then. Ask Victorians how the world’s longest lockdown and punitive measures imposed for dumb regulation breaches are going.
    Farside
    1st Oct 2020
    5:30pm
    "world's longest lockdown" I don't think so.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-01/fact-check-was-victorias-lockdown-most-severe-oustide-wuhan/12690432
    Paddington
    1st Oct 2020
    5:31pm
    Old Silver Fox, going well, actually! We are nearly there. Forget the stupid politics as it won’t work with this virus but not moving will work. It is fine, we are going well, now people understand the lives of the disabled and people who are too poor to have the many choices of movement. Go to Russia or China to really see communism. We are so lucky to be in Australia at the moment as not even the UK or the US are safe. Off topic to boot!
    Yes, give some extra money to single renters with no house or assets. Fine with me!
    Old Silver Fox
    1st Oct 2020
    5:59pm
    Farside you need to redo your checking.
    ozjames70
    1st Oct 2020
    6:26pm
    The way our politicians have cooked the electoral system, with preferences, you only ever vote for one or other of the major parties, it's just so well camouflaged, most people never see where their vote really goes. To the politicians who sell out the country and have put in place an aged pension for themselves and a much lesser one for the rest of us.
    sunnyOz
    1st Oct 2020
    4:31pm
    But how are you going to define that? Just like everything, there will be those who can slip through the cracks.
    tobymyers
    1st Oct 2020
    4:47pm
    This is not a good idea I have seen well to do pensioners rort the system quite easily and I can't see this changing if more money is fed to those with less because we will see a lot of horse trading going on in families to maximize their pension .

    The simple way to fix pensions , and I get sick of saying it , is to simplify the payments .One single pension means tested on income .....end of story .
    ozjames70
    1st Oct 2020
    6:23pm
    You are spot on. Our poor neighbors in NZ have a universal OA Pension. Everyone gets it and everyone puts in a tax return. The infrastructure is there already. Then, those who have other income from assets or other sources pay tax, which means they give more back. Overall their taxation system is simpler and their health and aged care is better. What could be fairer?
    Old Silver Fox
    1st Oct 2020
    4:48pm
    Yes another looney lefty idea. Reward the dopey decisions and “hard luckers”. Make the thrifty pay for the idle. Communist utopia is upon us. If you really want to see it in action then move to North Korea and experience it first hand...if not wait a few more years and you’ll have it in Australia...then you’ll be sorry. It’s already a reality in Chairman “Delusional Dan’s” Victoria and probably coming to Pallet Chooks Queensland.
    Lookfar
    1st Oct 2020
    5:45pm
    Old silver Fox, the Super Rich, the Multi-Billionaires who own the Multinational corporations now own the world, and certainly Australia, what is this "Communist takeover" nonsense you are spouting, - at least, if we are to be taken over, let's be aware who it is that is doing it.
    Communism, - hardly any young people know what it means, nor give a duff, - things have changed silver Fox, - who you thought would save you are now owning you, wake up yourself.
    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is a choice requiring lots of hard work.
    CoogeeGuy
    1st Oct 2020
    4:55pm
    The base rate of the aged pension is too low. The aged pension should not be seen as a welfare payment, but a payment of support for our elderly who have reached the end of their working lives, and who are deserving of our support during their pensioner years. This support should include a fortnightly payment amount which would allow our elderly to live a comfortable life, free from financial stress. The base rate of the age pension needs to rise to allow all our elderly, who are eligible for the old age pension. Should those amount them are doing it tough, due to reasons beyond their control, then further support in the form of affordable and subsidised housing, health discounts, and energy discounts could be provided. As far a welfare payments go, the government needs to cut back in certain areas as to not create an 'entitled' society. As far as welfare payments go, the government needs to get back to basics, and wind back all those payments that are contributing toward us becoming an 'entitled' community who think the government has plenty of money and should be supporting us during our working lives. No more money for having children, no more extravagant maternity or paternity leave, no more money for subsidising child care, and a more strict 'work for the dole' scheme for those who cannot, or will not, find paying work. Our federal government's main priorities should be aged care (including aged pensions) and disability payments for those who cannot genuinely work, along with providing health care and building the necessary infrastructure our country desperately needs. It is called 'Getting back to Basics' or a 'Federal Government Reset' if your like.
    Old Silver Fox
    1st Oct 2020
    5:11pm
    None of you thought it was a good idea to support Australian manufacturers did you. Just beetle off to the Reject shop or similar hole to spend what the state has given you there expect the government to pay for your lifestyle. A lot of pensioners needn’t have finished up on the “old age dole” if they had thought about their future; however they chose to think that the government was responsible for their lives in old age. They were totally unaccountable for their own decisions, burdening the workers instead. Very selfish attitude. CoogeeGuy you are espousing your theories on what welfare should be on one hand and on the other saying it shouldn’t give rise to an “entitled” mentality. You can’t have a dollar each way, so make up your mind as to which side you are on. In your communist utopia I can assure you there will be no luxuries and you will live at a subsistence level. None of your comments address how the governments, state or federal, are going to fund your dream.
    panos
    1st Oct 2020
    5:48pm
    None of you thought it was a good idea to support Australian manufacturers did you.

    What are you gabbing on about, the good old bosses and share holders are the ones that took everything to do with manufacturing overseas to guess where. FOR PROFIT.

    Now china has the money and is flexing it's muscle thanks to bosses and shareholders..

    ARE you one Old Silver Fox
    ozjames70
    1st Oct 2020
    7:24pm
    Let's not forget, the Age Pension was first introduced in Australia in June 1908, delivering support for older generations and helping people to live more comfortably in later life.
    The rhetoric surrounding the release of the Age Pension was that people had a right to live out their old age free from poverty because of their contribution to the community through a lifetime’s hard work. There was later a change to remove the stigma of charity by adopting a universal 7.5% contribution from all workers.
    But a series of Governments and crooked or incompetent politicians over the years, have raided the pot of gold created by Australian tax payers. But they didn't stop there: they’ve also sold off all the assets our taxes paid for that once produced income and committed future generations to pay for their reckless spending. Australians have been stripped of assets and committed to endless debt by politicians and Public Servants who have a guaranteed retirement stream while they sold the rest of us down the drain.
    Now they're looking for how to steal more from we oldies to fund their generous, life-time pensions that we could only dream of.
    I'd love to see a politician try to correct the system, but those who are making millions as a result of our politician's decisions and paying no taxes other than the little bit the give to the pollies, will make sure the system keeps going till there's nothing left. Then they'll just move elsewhere. Sadly people in power can’t resist the temptation to abuse that power and we the people keep getting poorer as a result.
    I remember going off to fight for the right to a fair go and to keep Australia the lucky country, but wonder: lucky for who?
    I buy Australian and New Zealand by choice, but sine the Lima Declaration, our politicians have made it almost impossible to do this. They even penalized those who wanted to manufacture here by imposing tariffs while issuing rights to provide goods into Australia at tax-free rates. It seems we can't even survive a month without imported medicines!
    lynndi
    1st Oct 2020
    5:05pm
    Agree totally with Coogee guy views. And I agree that the poorer aged and disability pensioners (non home owners ) should be catered for first. Alot of these people are in this position due to reasons beyond their control. No one chooses to be homeless ,rent unable to afford decent meals. Getting these people to a basic standard of living is humane and how can others say, they don't deserve help.
    justjanet
    1st Oct 2020
    5:10pm
    Hi Pano & Helen probably picking is hard work how about packing .My idea would be to
    “ allow”fit healthy pensioners to pack fruit maybe just a couple of half days a week ,without being penalised . My biggest concern would be the resume mm who can remember what yr they left school ,time between jobs A,B,C alto I fail to understand why you need references ect to pack fruit & vegs. Mm waiting for the omgs re this idea
    Lookfar
    1st Oct 2020
    5:53pm
    justjanet, I went fruit picking with a group of mates, - some of us were good, some not worth paying and some kept putting bad fruit amongst the good, - we only got paid for what we picked, if we only earnt a dollar a day we were in the way, fruit picking is a skill like most jobs, very few old people will be good at it unless they already are.
    abundanced
    1st Oct 2020
    5:18pm
    Old Silver Fox ... my sentiments exactly. And we can all forget about hiding cash anywhere - the stuff will, given time, be worthless with the NWO.

    Here, here Helen. Panos ... really ? Who cares about how they work for their money. "If you want it, work for it". I've young folk in my family who've been on benefits all their lives and something's got to give to get them off their backsides and beaches!

    Buggsie - if you value freedom, steer clear of the ALP who clearly endorse communism (Daniel Andrews is glaringly obvious here).

    Old Silver Fox, you're spot on about the thrifty paying for the idle. Tobymyers' suggestion "tested on income" is logical.
    Lookfar
    1st Oct 2020
    5:57pm
    abundanced, Australian mateship values can be called Communist if you are an ignorant American, and it shows when you call the ALP communist, - get off the grass, we are Ozzies in this country, - go back to America with your "left" propaganda, please.
    Youngagain
    1st Oct 2020
    6:52pm
    Lookfar, it seems many here define 'Australian mateship values' as programs that steal the savings of battlers who sacrificed to ensure comfort in old age and gifting them to people who lived the high life and didn't think about tomorrow. Sorry! I'm with Old Silver Fox and abundanced. The ALP is way too Communist for my likings. Daniel Andrews is a dangerous man.
    Willie
    1st Oct 2020
    5:24pm
    I think it would be better to give us pensionsers a fortnightly increase than a large sum
    MB100D
    5th Oct 2020
    5:20pm
    Can you show us your calculation's to support your claim.
    Life experience
    1st Oct 2020
    5:45pm
    Only increase jobseeker for over 55’s. Encourage the younger ones to work.
    Farside
    2nd Oct 2020
    2:56pm
    Recent months show record new jobs but there are still more unemployed/underemployed than there are new jobs available.
    Life experience
    1st Oct 2020
    5:48pm
    Give the younger workers a chance to get a job. Older people should be given higher jobseeker payment so they have the option not to work if they want. This would free up jobs for younger people with unemployment increasing. Older community then have option whether they want to work or stay home.
    Farside
    2nd Oct 2020
    2:58pm
    it would interesting to know if there is some modelling or research into offering early retirement to 60 and over. I suspect the take up would be quite high and free up the jobs market as you suggest with little change to the government coffers.
    ushi
    1st Oct 2020
    5:48pm
    iIF ONLY it were that SIMPLE and clear cut.. to ascertain WHO is entitled.
    for example, someone I know has been receiving Centrelink Funds nearly all her adult life ( she is over 60 years old)... She resides in a Housing Commission house... pays very little Rent even under their Commercial Rent-rules.. When the kids were little she did CASH Jobs & it wasn't declared to CentreLink.. her ex gave her CASH (he did NOT declare the Income to the Tax Office).. she did not tell CentrelInk so that she could get MORE from them).. Son is a tradie that doesn't declare his CASH Income (therefore NOT included in Rent calculation). She has been working part time and SPENDS her money... The government will be supporting her forever more... THEN, on the other hand I know people who have worked all their lives, done the RIGHT THING, paid their Taxes and they are still STRUGGLING.... This is NOT a Level Playing field... That is WHY I think it is sooo IMPORTANT that Australia becomes TOTALLY CASHLESS - this would be ONE Step forward to a FAIRER and MORE EQUITABLE system eventually ..... oh, Old Silver Fox - have you seen the SBS series ' An Ordinaray Woman' - set in Russia & corruption...
    Youngagain
    1st Oct 2020
    8:49pm
    I agree ushi - not so much about the cashless society, which I think presents more problems than it solves, but definitely the rest of it. I also know folk who have lived off Centrelink their whole life, making no effort at all to earn a living but taking cash-in-hand jobs and hiding money. Then there are the whingers demanding more rent assistance to live in the inner city or in large houses or apartments with spare bedrooms for guests or craft activities. Oh yeah! They have to have a life! Never mind that other people are paying for it - many of whom don't enjoy nearly as much comfort.

    The more we discriminate and hand out selectively, the more people will contrive to claim benefits that they should morally not receive. It would be far more sensible to give all aged folk the same benefit, regardless of income or assets, and let a progressive tax system do its job properly. With a greater incentive to earn and save, more people would get off the public tit and we'd have a far healthier society.

    I do think older folk who lose their jobs should be treated differently for Newstart benefits and paid a higher rate, in recognition of the extreme difficulty they face finding work and the fact that if they drain their savings they will have nothing to retire on. But there's no reason why they can't be asked to work for their benefit - charity work, community work, etc. There's plenty of need out there.
    tobymyers
    1st Oct 2020
    6:29pm
    Did I see some one say we are not supporting our manufacturers ?
    How about our manufacturer are not supporting Australia ?
    I did my bit today I took a guess at what might be in the budget for me so I spent it .
    I bought an Atom Lawn Edger made in Australia and since 2017 the 26cc engine is made in Australia from local and imported parts.
    I doubt it's Chinese parts we are talking about here I would guess it's importing parts from a Japanese manufacturer and putting them together here as the 26cc engine they were sourcing from Japan for their products is discontinued.

    Does anyone Remember BILLABONG ?

    Yeh thats' right great quality then they got their gear made in China and we saw the quality shrink and their profits gorw.

    What about BONDS ???
    ANYONE ??
    They had manufacturing plants up in KURRI FOR years closed them and went the Chinese route as well.
    So anyone who keeps barking about not supporting our manufacturers think again most of them are just GREEDY CAPITALISTS looking for extra profit and they don't give a fig about the AUSTRALIAN WORKER .
    Farside
    2nd Oct 2020
    3:03pm
    fair points Toby but the underlying cause why these companies went overseas in search of cheaper hands and restoring profits was the lack of competitiveness with cheap and typically inferior imports. Sadly Aussies like cheap and regard it as a better bargain than quality.
    Youngagain
    3rd Oct 2020
    10:29am
    That's not the whole story, Farside. I knew a businessman who was making cast metal objects. Doing well until the government, in its wisdom, decided to subsidize Indian factories to compete. Our government GAVE these Indian factories their raw material and fuel, and exempted them from sales tax when they sold in Australia. The resulting imported product was cheaper to buy than the raw metal the Australian businessman needed to make his product. Needless to say, he shut down. First, though, he changed his product line and made a very uniquely Australian iconic product. His best customer - a retailer - bought it, made a mold from it, and sent it to a Taiwanese factory to produce at half the price he could make it for. That same retailer was selling souvenirs in competition with him, imported from China. When the businessman entered the shop one day, the retailer was filing the 'Made in China' mark off the bottom. It wasn't a case of customers not being willing to pay for quality, but rather being deprived of choice by greedy, dishonest retailers and our own government.
    tobymyers
    1st Oct 2020
    6:33pm
    This advocacy group needs to take a reality check and define how much money a pensioner needs to live because that is why we are poor , .It's pensions and jobseeker payments being at unrealistic low levels along with Centrelink policing that has caused the poverty .
    I would like everyone who is rolling in cash from their Super to leave this forum right now because your input is based on your bullshit lives .
    Youngagain
    1st Oct 2020
    6:48pm
    Who appointed you forum moderator and gave you the right to be rude, insulting and discriminatory, tobymyers, based on your mythical dreamt-up mistaken idea of reality?

    I know plenty of people who live very well on the aged pension, through good management. I also know a great many who manipulate to get a pension they don't need - including one couple who just sold a home for $1.5 million but get a full couple's pension. Conversely, I know many self-funded who are struggling to preserve enough of their savings to ensure they can afford decent health care in old age, and after sacrificing for decades to put savings aside, that is disgraceful - and anyone who implies that those people shouldn't have their concerns heard is disgusting. Put a sock in it. Learn to budget. If you had done earlier in life, you wouldn't be struggling now. People living on handouts have no right to complain. There are lots of ways to reduce expenses, but the problem is that too many just expect to have what they want and have someone else foot the bill.
    MB100D
    5th Oct 2020
    5:27pm
    You are being a bit cruel Youngagain. tobymyers is probably on welfare because life has been cruel to him and just didn't give him a break. it must be hard for him to watch as others who got all the breaks, had more intelligence and were silly enough to work harder/longer reaping the rewards.
    It's Animal Farmer in action.
    Youngagain
    5th Oct 2020
    5:33pm
    Pardon me, MB100D, but I got NO breaks. I had a VERY hard life. But I still managed to save for retirement. If tobymyers is doing it tough, it's because he didn't strive and plan enough earlier. That is evident in his abusive comments. If he had genuinely struggled, he wouldn't be aggressive and nasty and he wouldn't be making stupid assumptions about people he knows nothing about.

    It's easy to see which of the posters here really did do it tough. They are respectful and polite, and just plead their case without condemning others or making dumb generalizations that have no substance.
    MB100D
    6th Oct 2020
    8:47am
    Youngagain, read "Animal farm", great book and puts my comments into relevance. See if you can assign tobymyers to the appropriate animal.
    tobymyers
    1st Oct 2020
    6:36pm
    ARVO YOU ARE DREAMING .
    Local rent her in MAITLAND IS $250.00 TO 450.00 A WEEK

    And the other thing who the hell are you telling people they should move at this time of life?

    You sound like a CAPITALIST PIGS who needs a good flogging.
    Mariner
    1st Oct 2020
    7:06pm
    tobymyers - I answered Arvo under his comment. Same here in a country town near the Qld border. Arvo possibly wants the oldies to live in way out Silverton and even there the rent is dearer.
    Farside
    2nd Oct 2020
    3:07pm
    743 properties in NSW for $200/week according to Realestate.com.au
    https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/between-0-200-in-new+south+wales/map-1?activeSort=price-desc
    Moongold
    1st Oct 2020
    6:47pm
    It's absolutely appalling the way the oldest and most defenceless among us are being left in neglect and fear, eating food that has no nutrition, being intimidated by freaks in even nursing homes where they should be totally protected and cared for. How could any government in a civilised nation let this happen to human beings - OR even animals who fear abandonment and hunger more than anything? There's plenty of wealth in this world to totally help those in need. TIME TO WAKE UP and DO something about it - it's existed for decades & we're being brainwashed into tolerating it.
    Youngagain
    1st Oct 2020
    7:01pm
    Yet another 'divide and conquer' scheme that will invite more manipulation and cheating to get the extra handouts, and over-indulge the entitled brigade who think the state should fund the lifestyle they desire.
    ozjames70
    2nd Oct 2020
    12:40am
    There should be no divide and conquer. We all become aged Australians at one point or other and should be able to live our lives in the communities we helped build. We paid our dues. Since I started work I paid taxes toward my aged pension, which the government said was to allow me to live a comfortable life in retirement. The guaranteed super came in near the end of my working life, so was no use for us.

    We save, weren't wasters, put our children through education, contributed to society, saved, bought and paid off our home and choose to live here. At $711 each a fortnight for two of us, we certainly don't live well, but get by. Could be better, but we strive to make it work. No elective surgeries, no unnecessary expenditure, and careful management. Do the sums, rates, water, gas, electricity, insurance medicines, food, transport, home maintenance; it just keeps going up and up. Some of these were once owned by the people and costs could be controlled, but politicians sold them off to people who only care about making more money.

    We don't think of ourselves as entitled, but to all who think the 7.5% we paid all our lives towards our aged pensions, is us claiming something we didn't contribute to, wake up. We don't expect the state to fund us, just let us draw the pension we paid for. No government has ever legislated to discontinue the OAP, but politicians are doing it by stealth.

    In the same way the government took the money paid in by Australian workers, they could take private super, your homes, your investments, everything. Yes, the government can write us off and take our assets, but what then? As there are more non-taxpayers, the spiral will continue until there is nothing left for anyone.

    So instead of playing the divide and conquer game, come together as a nation. Let's look at what's fair. We can find billions to give poorer nations as per our Lima commitment, but can't pay a livable pension for those who have given their lives to this country. We allow foreign investors to buy the guts out of the country and then charge us ludicrous fees, but pay minimal taxes.

    Before you start playing off one type of pensioner against the other, get real; it is the Australian combined pensioners versus the Politician's Pension system. That is the true travesty. Our politician's pension is not tied to the aged pension, but to their last earnings indexed to the public service rates. And they can still earn on top with no penalty plus we give them a heap of perks. Compare $450K plus versus $18400 for an aged pensioner who was a worker rather than a politician.

    The reason some pensioners try to get every handout they can is more about desperation and need than greed. Greed is what we see in politician and income of the wealthy, not old people trying to live with a little more than subsistence. Those that try to play one group of pensioners against another are showing their lack of real knowledge and lack of humanity. Paying pensions that are below the poverty line will invite manipulation and cheating, not to over-indulge an entitled brigade, but to survive. Sure people desire a level of lifestyle, but this is what they have paid into, what was promised and what has been legislated. Time for the critics to wake up.
    Youngagain
    2nd Oct 2020
    7:46am
    ozjames70, I agree that we should unite, but sadly I can't see it ever happening. Just look at the vitriol against the self-funded in posts on this forum. And sadly you are mistaken about the reason some try to get every handout they can. Those I know who do this are NOT desperate. They are very well off indeed, but just want more and more and more. It is pure greed. There are exceptions, but most of those I know who are genuinely hard up are not complaining or asking for more. They are just quietly managing as best they can and grateful for what the taxpayer provides for them. I know one lady who worked at charity shops voluntarily so she could pick the best of the donated clothing for herself. Every gift she gave came from the charity shop as well. She thanked the bank clerk, every time she went to the bank, for paying taxes, and she remarked how fortunate she was that there was a pension. And yes, she was a single pensioner - widowed at age 26 with one child, no education (grew up in poverty in the Great Depression and never got to high school even). True, neighbours drove her places and fixed things for her, and even shouted her a meal out sometimes or brought her treats to eat, because she was such a beautiful person that everyone loved her.

    We all paid for our pension, but only some get it. That is the root cause of discontent I think. And giving more to some than others will only increase the discontent. We all paid and we should all collect - at the same rate. Tax all other income by all means, but denying some the pension they paid for and discriminating based on unreliable assessments of 'need' (and no assessment can ever be reliable) will keep us divided. But then, I fear that is what the powers-that-be want. When we are divided, they can easily conquer.
    Roy
    1st Oct 2020
    7:30pm
    The best solution for affordability is to look into lifestyle villages... they are in every State and very affordable in some great areas close to family & friends. Plus you become part of a new community, get involved and have a ball of a time, coast or regional - take your pick! Check it out at www.retirementlivingonline.com.au you will be amazed!
    Mariner
    1st Oct 2020
    7:37pm
    Good for some people Roy. We lived on a cruise ship for months on end and we could possibly fit into one of those villages. But it is not for everyone as there are more restrictions put on you. Good idea though especially if one loses one's partner (If one could still afford to live there on a single pension).
    ozjames70
    2nd Oct 2020
    5:06pm
    Interesting. There are calls for enquiries into lifestyle villages that don't deliver and also into shoddy building processes, so wonder how much protection is there for pensioners who buy into one. The are private businesses out to make a profit, so I wouldn't rate it highly.

    I don't think herding all the old people up and sending us away is the answer. I live in a normal Australian community, with people of all ages and cultures. We love it and are not sitting around with nothing to do. I'm happy to live my life out in the community I helped build.

    Why shouldn't we live this way? Just so greedy developers can take our land and multiply their profits by turning it into a high-density living site, with full support from politicians who are on the take!
    Gracie Em
    1st Oct 2020
    7:43pm
    So what your saying is, the pensioners who are better off because they may be saved a bit and went without when they were younger would now lose out? I don't think that is fair.
    Youngagain
    3rd Oct 2020
    10:22am
    Welcome to the deprived sector, Gracie Em. The 'self-funded' who saved just a little more than you have been missing out forever, and I didn't hear many pensioners saying that was unfair. The whole idea is to divide us so we have no power. We should all be uniting behind ONE demand - an equal and adequate pension for all over retirement age, and all other income taxed.
    midnight
    1st Oct 2020
    8:41pm
    I am lucky in some respects in that I own my home and my car. But recently I gave up my one treat, morning coffee and a muffin which meant a chat with someone.. Bills are getting higher, haven't had a holiday in 20 years, and I'm not extravagant. It's not that I am desperate for more, as I am used to surviving this way, but oh gosh, when I hear people talking about not being able to indulge in going out to dinner or shows, or on weekend trips, or when there is an article on this page about trying to survive on $1,000.000 then I am made aware that I don't really have much to look forward to. Must be because I am a single female pensioner with very little super and very little in the bank.
    Youngagain
    1st Oct 2020
    8:52pm
    I sympathize, midnight. But it irks me that many here seem to think that is the lot I should accept if my partner passes away well before I do. They insist I must spend the money I saved to avoid that fate because it's not right, apparently, that savers should be allowed to benefit from having sacrificed and planned. The benefit should all accrue to those who didn't.
    ozjames70
    2nd Oct 2020
    1:21am
    There is a simple answer that works in Canada and New Zealand. Stop discriminating, give all aged people the same benefit, regardless of income or assets, and let a progressive tax system do its job properly. Wien you have a greater incentive, people work, earn and save. People could choose to work longer to augment their retirement funds. Fewer people would rely on the government purse and we'd have a far healthier society.

    I have a friend who lost their job, but was busy looking for a new one and Centrelink ceremoniously took them off JobSeeker and put them on the OAP. Just numbers. No special treatment or understanding. The company they were working for folded and hadn't paid their super. So they were keen to boost their pension any way they could. Not by bludging, but by working part-time. They'd be happy to pay a progressive tax.

    I'm blown away when I hear of families never working and rorting the system, but wonder with all the money we spend on managing the system, why does this happen. I guess it's a way of buying loyal votes. Keep them dependent and they'll vote for whoever is paying them. Sadly they'll stick with this until the tap get's tuned off and there is no more.

    This is very different to aged pensioners who have paid taxes for a legislated Aged Pension. Many of we pensioners do voluntary work, which would have to be funded through other means if we didn't do it, but this is never considered by those in power. They don't see it s a benefit because it doesn't contribute to their coffers. There's always plenty of need but it seems to fall to the same few to contribute, just like they have for the past 65 to 75 years.

    Roll on the pension for all with a progressive tax system. That won't penalize those who save or work harder or longer, but will ensure everyone can liver better than living below the poverty line. The progressive tax model will ensure those who need get, and those that don't, contribute back. This won't solve the problem of other benefits, but would be a start. Next should be taxing all businesses.

    For years, I worked for multi-nationals who used various pricing models to ensure they never paid tax in Australia. They did it with the full support of politicians and it stinks. Various governments did deals with them, sold them public assets at bargain prices and took handouts for their treason. These are the same politicians who raided the public pension system and left it broke, but continue to live with their snouts in the trough. Enough is enough.
    Cool Nanna
    1st Oct 2020
    9:05pm
    For goodness sake!!! My husband and I worked our guts out during our working life, often working 7 days a week, 12 hours a day with no holidays and the government won’t pay us. Why should all those who have never worked or worked very little, sit back and get a pension. Also there are many who have squandered their earnings and now sit back with a pension coming in!! Don’t get me started!! We came from nothing and have worked hard, never bludged!! Get all these lazy Aussies out picking fruit and veggies now, plenty of work out there if you want to work. The government should cut off all allowances if you’re not prepared to have a go!! Lazy lot!! You are a disgrace and an embarrassment!!
    ushi
    2nd Oct 2020
    8:32am
    Cool Nanna I agree..
    I have worked since I was 16 years old.. had very few holidays. Ended up a Single Parent, brought up 4 kids working long hours, paid my Taxes on all my Income... and, the result is that I still have a Mortgage, have 2 free-loaders on my doorstep..

    the youngest child is living at home, does not want to work, cannot understand the 'satisfaction' in achieving and 'self worth' that it brings...
    he works for about a year, does a trip, then has some time off, then work.. He NEVER received any Newstart during this 11 years... UNTIL April.20 when he lost his job bcoz of Covid...
    I have no gripes in him doing "his time" at any 'compulsory fruit picking' for a couple of months - it can ONLY do him good..

    the other one is my Brother who has been at my place on/off since 2008..
    ... well he is here bcoz he is my brother...
    BUT, for the last 35 years he has basically paid NO Income Tax - from the time he left the Army -- initially, running a small CASH Business then Driving Trucks under an ABN..... he hasn't lodged a Tax Return for over 15 years...

    he has NO ASSETS - not even a car -- he has NO job and he is UNLIKELY to ever work again bcoz he is 65 years old-
    I simply cannot reconcile 'his stupidity, lack of tax-responsibility & bad spending-habits' that will ENTITLE him to the "Age Pension" ----
    he is a pretty harmless soul - BUT, the 'Cash system' has let him get away with this all of these years....
    oh, and by the way, his contribution to the household is under $4 a day to pay for Electricity that is on 24/7, Water, Gas usage .... and, bcoz of Covid he got his own sectioned-area of the house.. he buys his own food etc..

    45 years ago, I was receiving Centrelink $30 a fortnight (for 2 kids) and paying $130 a week for one child at pre-school, working earning only $400 a week.. Single parent struggling.. but, my kids never went without any essentials..

    NOW, the Government SPLURGES Money TO Young families... and, they STILL WANT MORE...
    AND, some get a CHILD DIAGNOSED with some form of 'Autism spectrum disability (ADHD or "slow" etc) - to get 'DISABILITY Allowance' for them forever more...
    .. I have met a number of these 'recipients' -in fact, one of them has DEFINITELY been INDUCED / exaggerated by the Parent to receive Benefits..... there does NOT appear to be a reTesting process that works-- bcoz I know of 2 children ( now in their 20's) that still get Disability-benefits BUT they lead NORMAL lives (drive,work, go out etc..).. until Covid, anyway..

    On the other hand, I know a couple of children (Autism & Retarded from Birth) that DEFINITELY need our help .....

    the problem is HOW to BALANCE all of this....
    Bonnie
    1st Oct 2020
    11:51pm
    I agree that older pensioners (in their 70's) etc who are single should get some extra assistance. Many of us do not own a home and although we do get some concessions the cost of living is going up at a much faster rate than the current pension can cope with. We have been the ones that have worked all our lives and paid our taxes and now you punish us and put us into poverty. Many of the reasons we have virtually no assets is because many of us come from marriages that have been abusive and we have escaped merely with our lives, others are widows. The majority of single pensioners are women who have gone through some trauma or other and now the government is putting them through even more trauma by making them struggle on borderline poverty. What I ask is, could the prime minister and the other politicians live on the meagre pittance they are dishing out to us? The answer is NO, because what we get is the price of a luncheon to them. They have NEVER had to starve and struggle to live so why should they care. We are merely numbers to them.
    johnboy
    2nd Oct 2020
    9:46am
    Bonnie you wont get any sympathy from MOST self funded retirees on here.Lets face it most had a business and they were ripping off people like us. They were thieves but disguised it as job. Most people in business are just making money by ripping others off Now thats a fact. Now they sit back on their high horse and think how hard they worked at ripping others off.
    AutumnOz
    2nd Oct 2020
    2:20pm
    Well said Bonnie.

    johnboy, take a short hike on a long jetty.

    I am a self funded retiree who has never run a business and I've never ripped anyone off and I'm also living below the poverty line as I am not eligible for a pension from Centrelink as my partner died and the assets we had now belong to me.
    Believe me you can't eat a brick or a tree but Centrelink, apparently in their wisdom, automatically rejects single people who are aged well over retirement age.
    Stoney
    2nd Oct 2020
    6:56am
    When times are tough, the tough take a cyanide pill, but I haven't been able to source them at this stage.
    patti
    2nd Oct 2020
    10:14am
    It was hard to adjustwhen my partner died. Bills don't change. It costs the same for rates, insurance etc, and the light costs the same however many sit in a room. Trying to do it alone nearly bankrupted me. I had to take out a reverse mortgage to do essential house maintenance. Now Ive downsized and hopefully will have enough to last me....God help those who are renting.. And when you care aging is not the only time to move away from familiar surroundings and services, especially living alone.
    AutumnOz
    2nd Oct 2020
    2:23pm
    Agreed patti, it is much the same here.
    Nearly everyone wanted me to move BUT where do we move to when everywhere but our home area is strange territory.
    johnboy
    2nd Oct 2020
    3:19pm
    Automnoz Then im not talking about you am i. and i did say most. I agree with bonnie and YOU. and people in business do rip us off, thats the way they make money. mark ups of 100 150 % and they are the ones that show no sympathy to battlers on here.
    tobymyers
    3rd Oct 2020
    5:06pm
    And I might say Patti the government is to blame in many ways for the way they treat married couples .
    All these self funded retirees should pull their head in because the facts are they will be collecting a pension in their future so they should just shut the fcuck up .
    They were lucky they did not have to use the super fund in a divorce settlement as 40% of people have to .
    I think many of the commenst here are from people full of shit.

    As far as living on a married pension the only thing is to divorce and put an add in the paper for 2 or 3 pensioners of similar mind to share your accommodations, your bills and your repairs plus a emergency fund for those out of pocket expenses that can come with out warning .

    The Government are nothing but a pack of capitalist Pigs with their nose in the trough shitting all over the poor.

    The majority of our population would do a lot better under a socialist government and this is the trend in the world as the old capitalists die off and pretty soon the rich will all have buy an island and immigrate off the coast for their own protection.....................oh shit !!!! they have already done this I think they call it AUSTRALIA !!!
    Youngagain
    3rd Oct 2020
    6:32pm
    tobymyers, the only person here full of sh.... is you! There is no LUCK involved in not using super in a divorce settlement. It's hard work making a marriage last. It takes guts and determination and a lot of sacrifice and unselfishness. Nor is there any luck in having a nest egg in retirement. It results from hard work, careful planning, and going without some of the luxuries others indulge in. The self-funded should be applauded for their efforts, and listened to - because they know a lot more about balancing a budget than those living on handouts.

    No, we certainly would NOT be better under a socialist government. Everywhere socialism has been tried, it has failed dismally. It impoverishes the productive who create work and wealth that provides for the less capable. Once the productive are impoverished, there's nothing less for anyone. Then... enjoy your poverty, mate. Your pension will go up in smoke.
    JoJozep
    4th Oct 2020
    1:15pm
    Boy, this must be an old post. I managed to read through about 3/4 of the comments.
    For what it's worth, can I point out a statement of facts hardly anyone even touched on:

    1. The pension fund was supposed to force the working class to provide a pension scheme after retirement/pension age being reached.
    2. Those who paid in hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax over 50 years of hard work plus those who over contributed after tax dollars to boost their pension fund, see red when their "nest egg" is plundered as easy money by governments and they run the risk of missing out.
    3. Those who were careful with both their spending and savings all their working life, need to reflect on their quality of life. Yes, they will qualify for a pension or part pension, but having reached retirement age, and are no longer physically fit to take on an overseas trip say to Alaska and enjoy a few weeks of bliss, must wonder was it all worth it?
    4. Everyone assumes they will be in perfect health when they retire, till some face needing aged care assistance. At this point, becoming a blithering, babbling, drooling at the mouth dependent is far from their minds. Then they become depressed because they think of the past and the things they could have done. It's then too late!

    Don't feel depressed, living in Australia is far better than anywhere else on earth.
    tobymyers
    4th Oct 2020
    2:34pm
    I am getting sick of the morons ranting on about their nest egg and their hard work and their

    careful spending then telling us what the pension is made for.

    Give it up so much ignorance not only to the concept of saving for that cruise when I retire and their philosophy saving for old age and what people should do .

    Just because you have been a tight arse all your life does not mean that others have been .
    It takes a real brain to think this through.

    many die before they get to old age, many get so ill they can't travel, many have unforeseen circumstances in their life and many just say what the fcuck I will do it now while I can because tommorrow I may not be here.
    For all those tight arses just remember you are not going to get a gold medal for being tight, you are not going to live longer, you may get ill, but if the penny has not dropped that life is chaos , there is no meaning and you were one chance in a billion to even have existed in the first place and you wife or husband has probably cheated on you more than once then you might just like to shut the fcuck up and talk to the hand.
    Farside
    5th Oct 2020
    2:53pm
    I don't have an issue with the savers saving, whether that be thru being tight or through circumstance, but you cannot help but notice some savers begrudging social security support available to those with less life savings while reluctant to spend down their own and enjoy retirement.
    Youngagain
    5th Oct 2020
    5:25pm
    tobymyers, you are showing gross ignorance and appalling rudeness calling savers 'tight arses'. Who the hell do you think you are judging people this way? There's a huge difference between being responsible and careful with money (which most SFRs were) and being 'a tight arse'. Stop being abusive. Intelligent and respectful debate might actually achieve something, but comments like yours are sickening and if anyone with any power to change things read this sort of crap, they would dismiss the entire discussion. You could be hurting everyone here with your disgraceful abusive remarks.
    Youngagain
    5th Oct 2020
    5:28pm
    I don't think savers begrudge social security support to anyone who needs it, Farside. There's a huge difference between begrudging the genuinely needy, and resenting manipulators and cheats and being angry that the system is so patently unfair. And there's a massive difference between being reluctant to spend savings and enjoy retirement and feeling compelled to preserve savings for expected future needs. The disrespect evident in comments from those who continue to shout this 'spend your savings' crap is disgusting.
    Farside
    5th Oct 2020
    7:34pm
    it's your choice and judgement Youngagain, others view the world through a different lens (which you typically label disgusting) and look for solutions to move forward rather than wish penury upon those less fortunate for their past choices.
    Droopy
    4th Oct 2020
    3:50pm
    Check out the comment I made in age pensioner for all blog . Four lots of ADVANCE AT CURRENT AMOUNT . NO HANDOUT. SAVE THE BIG $THE GOVT HANDSI OUT TO MILLIONAIR CROOKED PENSIONERS LIKE SILVER FOX. PROBABLY NEVER WORKED AN HOUR IN HIS LIFE. AND IF HE IS SO ASTITUTE GAINED HIS KNOWLEDGE FROM THE HANDOUTS OF "FREE EDUCATION" COME ON SENSIBLE COMMENT ,NOT CRITICAL GAS BAGGING. IF MENZIES HAD NOT RAIDED THE PENSION FUND THER WOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH TO PAY FOR THIS PANDEMIC COST TODAY. HUH!?
    Boof
    5th Oct 2020
    4:47pm
    I live in Bundaberg. Pay $200 week for a Villa. Veranda out the front & a clothesline out the back. I receive rent allowance. We get by.


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