Why older Australians are staying put instead of downsizing

‘It will be the death of a spouse or ill health that forces them to downsize’, says research institute.

shadow of a large house

Government incentives to downsize are not hitting the mark, with older Australians who reach retirement age preferring to stay in the family home unless declining health forces them to leave, new Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute (AHURI) research shows.

The research, Moving, downsizing and housing equity consumption choices of older Australians analysed the housing decisions of Australians aged over 55 to understand who downsizes or moves, and why.

“Our research shows that older, home owning Australians are generally reluctant to downsize or to spend their housing wealth over the course of their retirement,” says lead researcher Associate Professor Stephen Whelan from the University of Sydney. 

“When such transitions do occur, they tend to be associated with key life events that are not induced by or associated with policy settings; for example, health shocks that require a move into aged care; retiring from the workforce or the death of a partner.”

Around 65 per cent of homeowners aged between 65 and 74 in 2001 were still living in the same home in 2016. For those aged over 75 years in 2001, more than half remained in their original residence 15 years later. In fact, in 2016, 64 per cent of householders aged over 80 still lived in their primary residence.

Prof. Whelan says that while stamp duty and the exemption of the family home from the Age Pension asset test discourage downsizing, most people only consider the move to a smaller place if they become ill or lose a partner.

 


“Economic considerations don’t seem to be critical, but nonetheless we’d argue that policy should take them into account and should be set in a way that facilitates downsizing, if and when it’s appropriate,” Dr Whelan told The New Daily.

Prof. Whelan believes that including a portion of the family home in the asset test and replacing stamp duty with a land tax could make downsizing more attractive.

“If you imagine there’s one million old homeowners who potentially could downsize,” he said.

“These types of changes are not going to affect everyone’s behaviour because, for many people, it will be the death of a spouse or ill health that forces them to downsize.”

The research also shows that, to date, Australians currently aged 55 to 64 are about as likely to own their home as their older counterparts at retirement, although they are less likely to own their home outright and they’ll be more likely to have less equity in their home, which could put a strain on their income streams, such as superannuation or the Age Pension.

Prof. Whelan believes that the growing proportion of people likely to retire without owning their home poses a challenge for policy makers, as the pension was not set at a level to cover private market rental payments.

Are you likely to downsize? Which factors would compel you to leave your primary dwelling?

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COMMENTS

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OJ21
15th Nov 2019
9:35am
Basically this idiot is saying penalise people for staying in their home and force them out. Bloody let us alone!!!!
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
10:15am
How about we make it mandatory that everyone who retires must move to accommodation most suited to their basic needs?
NGE
15th Nov 2019
11:23am
Couldn't have said it better OJ21.
marls
15th Nov 2019
12:25pm
OJ

Totally agree
Life experience
15th Nov 2019
3:30pm
Fed up with home owners being penalised. It’s the most stressful thing moving house.
And they have worked hard and gone without to get a house. Leave the, alone !
Makes me sick. Why work hard in life if your penalised for wanting to stay in the house you’ve worked hard to get. What’s the point in working hard ?
What’s the point in making your home comfortable for retirement.
Give up now. Travel the world. Spend spend. Is that what we should aim for ?
OJ21
15th Nov 2019
3:53pm
If I new how we would be treated when I left school I would have joined the professionally unemployed, bought into a commune inNimbin an I would be comfortably on a full pension now.
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
4:17pm
Would not be comfortable in Nimbin right now, OJ21. They are surrounded by fire and the situation did not good yesterday. Not too far from it myself and it is bone dry. I do however get your drift about the way we are going and in that you are not wrong.
Rosret
15th Nov 2019
7:02pm
Yes.
hyperbole
20th Nov 2019
4:22pm
From my point of view it is better to downsize while you are fit and healthy. Leaving it until you are ill and very elderly and have to move is just toooo hard! I have had experience of someone who left it too late. It was a nightmare for all involved who had to help the lady get out of a 4 bedroom house with all her contents...sorting...throwing out. the moving ..the anguish and stress for the lady..UGH!
Hillbillypete
15th Nov 2019
9:40am
Best thing I ever did, moved into a large motorhome and have never looked back, can live were ever takes our tansy!
Kaz
15th Nov 2019
11:38am
No thanks
sunnyOz
15th Nov 2019
1:41pm
With you there Kaz - could think of nothing worse. And have seen far too many of the negatives of this. So many people only talk about, or read about, the wonders of doing this, but the novelty/wonder does wear off. And people are too ashamed or afraid to admit they made a mistake in doing it, and hated it. Age catches up, costs become more - cannot understand these people who complain about the costs to maintain a house, but ignore the costs to maintain their home on the road. Have only just read of someone's MH motor blowing up - faces a bill of nearly $23,000!!
I've only just recently spoken to a neighbor who luckily decided to rent her house out for 12 months to see if this life was for her. Her son convinced her not to sell but to rent first - within 4 months she was back, admitting she hated it, and for once thanking the heavens she listened to her son. It is NOT cheap! She is now selling her motorhome at a hugely reduced price, and staying with her son till she can get back into her house.
I also simply cannot understand people selling their home (appreciating asset) for a motor home (depreciating asset).
MICK
15th Nov 2019
6:16pm
Good luck when the motorhome breaks down and starts to rust. What then?
cupoftea
15th Nov 2019
7:32pm
I would look at hiring a van for at least 3 months which I will be doing for winter next year if I like it I will be doing it every year I will not sell my place
hyperbole
20th Nov 2019
4:23pm
Agree with Mick and what about illl health?
ozrog
15th Nov 2019
10:05am
Downsizing does not always result with money in the bank. It would cost me to downsize and the smaller place costs more than i would get for my current place. Then there are the visits from kids interstate and the grand kids i need a bigger place not s smaller one.
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
10:18am
Yup - got a three bedder house with garage and carport - we are now the local 'depot' for a drive to gather basics like water and food for firefighters and evacuees in this area. Amazing how generous people can become .... Griffith is sending cherries and apples and stuff all the way up here to the Mid North Coast.... and footing the bill for transport...
Farside
15th Nov 2019
3:10pm
my old mum wants to upsize to a larger property with 4 or 5 bed home, study, gym and swimming pool and undercover parking for visits ... build it and they will come. She thought the same thing about a retirement place in NZ that sits vacant for 95% of the time. The idea that it would be cheaper to put visitors up in a hotel seems beyond her comprehension.
Ok
15th Nov 2019
10:13am
Yes, it is crazy! People like us are living in a large 4 bedroom home with a large garden whilst young people with families are squeezed into small flats. Yes, we had a look at downsizing but after you take out agent fees and the MASSIVE stamp duties then there is not much left, You would end up with a few dollars extra in a crowded "townhouse". Get rid of stamp duties for over 70-year-olds and build smaller homes suitable and affordable for older Australians. The changes would benefit all, young people would be able to buy homes suitable for families and us oldies would live in smaller dwellings. It would be a win-win situation but the tax greed of Governments will stop it.
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
10:19am
Stalin had such a scheme, Ok - it was called Gulags... and Uncle Adolph had his own scheme....
Tanker
15th Nov 2019
11:44am
We downsized last year and in Victoria there is no stamp duty if you are over a certain age and the property is under a certain value.
It has worked for us with a newer, smaller, property and money in the bank for us to use on ourselves. It allowed us to replace our car with a new one that should see us through till we pop our clogs.
Tanker
15th Nov 2019
11:44am
We downsized last year and in Victoria there is no stamp duty if you are over a certain age and the property is under a certain value.
It has worked for us with a newer, smaller, property and money in the bank for us to use on ourselves. It allowed us to replace our car with a new one that should see us through till we pop our clogs.
cirdan
15th Nov 2019
12:49pm
I'm inclined to agree with you Ok. The gov(state and fed.) seem to want it both ways. Move the seniors out to smaller residences and make way for younger families but then hit us with stamp duty(in SA) and agents fees. We will have to down size soon as we have a 4 br and a large garden but need to wait till we have enough money to ensure we get the right place that is in our budget without impacting on our super.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
3:19pm
Like Tanker, no stamp duty problem in Vic. Circumstances forced downsizing from a large, older family home in need of some $$$ maintenance as well as large garden that was becoming increasingly difficult to maintain. Built two new smaller properties that will see us out and still enough leftover to invest.
Triss
15th Nov 2019
3:47pm
It’s not really crazy, OK. We live in a decent sized house with a good garden but we started out in a flat not much bigger than our garage. It’s what happens. You start small and work your way up and I object to all the multimillionaires in parliament who own multi dwellings telling me where I should live.














It’s
Rosret
15th Nov 2019
7:08pm
Good grief. Its our home - we paid for it. Its not empty. So when the next generation save their money they can buy their own home.
I would never have suggested to my parents that they should move. In actuality on a selfish side the children's inheritance benefited enormously by them not wishing to move out. The ones where their parents moved into retirement homes or 50 plus accommodation have nothing at days end - but some wealthy aged care investors are billionaires.
Paddington
16th Nov 2019
11:20am
Farside, you have obvious choices which many do not. Why build two homes instead of one bigger home? Investments is not the subject of this discussion. Most people would be left with nothing after a move and a box to live in to boot.
If we cut our house in half we would have no room for anyone but ourselves. We seem to always be helping someone or hosting family or visitors. My sister has downsized twice and is very unhappy with the result. I learn from her mistake.
I have seen huge homes and ours is not that but it does have extra room to help others as needed. The nest is never empty really as family come back.
I doubt this nasty government would upset the oldies as exemplified by the franking credits debacle and oldies are not impacted much with that compared to their home that they spend all their time as they become more frail.
Farside
16th Nov 2019
2:14pm
Paddington, not that it's your business what my circumstances for downsizing were, but my wife and I separated after her cancer treatment and my enforced early retirement. Now we each own a smaller property than the one we shared and raised a family. Hers is in a less affluent suburb (with two adult children, two dogs and a cat) and mine is in the country. Neither house was purchased as an investment.
Paddington
16th Nov 2019
9:43pm
Farside, I apologise for misunderstanding your motives. I was thinking how I would prefer a bigger house to two small ones but I did not realise you and your wife had separated. That makes sense then. My sister downsized twice which has proven a big mistake for her and that informs my decisions and outlook on this subject. Expecting people to downsize is assuming their values. Our home is comfortable but it would not be if we were in the position that my sister and her husband are in. We are home most of the time so do not want to live in a box. Again sorry for assuming you had chosen investing over comfort.
Also, we who have property no matter how humble are lucky compared to the renters.
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
10:14am
Because they will not yield to tyranny and greed is good mentality... unlike starving imports, they know they actually have the right to hold on to what they've earned from a life of often hard struggle.

They also know when they are being herded like cattle into doing something they have no wish to do... and even if some oldies feel powerless - the reality is they are not.... and scheming governments know it in their dark hearts...

Raise the Black Flag - No Prisoners!!
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
10:27am
TREBOR - you should start The Australian Oldies Party, membership for people over, say, 50 years and over. We could make a difference possibly. I am a dual citizen and thus not allowed to have a say officially. Remember all the fuss for the sitting Members of Parliament!
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
12:28pm
OOBP? Official Old Bastard Party?
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
12:32pm
Ah - but you still vote, Mariner... good thinking..

I'd need to work on a platform... one problem is I'm not onside with the current debacle of dividend imputation - this needs to be straightened out and the realities introduced over the rhetoric. Reality is that franking is part of total income of shareholder - and must be treated as such - there was and is, therefore, no way it could be 'tax effective' for a shareholder without something being wrong with the way it's being handled.

By the same token - no small shareholder would lose anything, with or without franking.... IF they are doing their taxes correctly....
Tricky
15th Nov 2019
1:41pm
Professor Whelan and his cohorts want to screw over senior citizens, he has an agenda as do the LNP.
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
10:17am
Downsized from a big city home to a place in the country 8 years before I got to 65. I have lived on the proceeds without any benefit from Govt. From 65 on I get the age pension. If I would have to downsize now like I did then I'd lose all my entitlements. No one is as silly as that. If the oldies ask their kids whether they should downsize the answer is "NO"; the inheritance is waiting - so I'd ask the kids to pay for my outgoings (rates and maintenance) as it's going to be their property in the long run. The Govt does not want to make your kids better off. The pressure for downsizing will continue - might become compulsory, who knows?
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
10:23am
It's silly - unless you have massive 'equity' and no real need - to 'downsize' just for the sake of it.... all you do is cut your own throat since The Good Colonel C'Link will swoop on any 'extra deemed income' you would then have from selling your pride and joy to move into a pig in a poke. Many who've moved find they are not happy...

We are not serfs of the government, nor are we in any way beholden to real estate agents or anyone else in 'business' and nor are we subject to their 'needs' - let them eat cake.

If governments want more housing available they need to get a real plan going NOW (NOW being about forty years ago).
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
10:25am
I 'went bush' 30 years ago and commuted to the city - I cannot describe the relief felt in getting close to home after a solid week in the nitty gritty ..

Oh - NOW for government usually means Not On Weekdays.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
3:24pm
Mariner is right to "ask the kids to pay for my outgoings (rates and maintenance) as it's going to be their property in the long run. The Govt does not want to make your kids better off." I have had the same conversation with my offspring.

There is no pressure to downsize unless you are asset rich, cash poor and want to receive social security.
Rosret
15th Nov 2019
7:09pm
Agreed.
Sickofit
15th Nov 2019
10:26am
I’d love to downsize due to financial reasons but my wife says “you’re not selling my house!” She hasn’t worked for 20 years!!
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
10:31am
Obviously your wife is happy staying put, not a bad decision after listening to some folks who have done it. Quite often it might mean moving further from their families and friends.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
3:28pm
Mrs Sickofit does not have adequate visibility of the financial reasons that downsizing would ease. Stop hiding the pressures she will soon agree with you that life is too short to bear these worries when you don't have to.
robbo
15th Nov 2019
10:37am
My mum has wonderful friends in the street where she lives. They give her a lot of practical and social support which enables her to stay. If she were to sell and downsize she could not afford to stay in the area and would need to move to a place where she knows no one and has no support in place.
Kaz
15th Nov 2019
11:43am
And that support keeps her happy and healthy and out of aged care. This govt is all over the place!
Rae
15th Nov 2019
2:58pm
Yes and once you move out of a lovely area you can never get back in. Why everyone hates retirees and expects them to accept a worse life so someone else can have a better life is a mystery.

Besides I don't want to grow the economy any more. It's quite big, expensive, overcrowded and ugly enough already.
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
7:00pm
Well - I've slept under trees, waded through mud up to my thighs, hunkered down under a fallen tree with the snakes etc in the dark with hostiles running around, worked under a vehicle to repair it in pouring rain, flogged myself seven days a week and up to eighteen hours a day and generally done it the hard way....... I figure I still could offer someone else a free ride....

I'm only 70 - my turn must come ....
bobm
15th Nov 2019
10:54am
Down size an excellent idea. Good for the blood sucking real estate agents and the Government on Stamp Duty and any other charges they will put on you. My wife would like to down size to smaller (4 bed 2 Bathrooms, double garage, a good size shed, plus a boat carport) all current at the moment. Any change costs US approx $40,000, any funds left over from the down sizing cannot be put into Super, due to age/or work restrictions. I may not be good at the economy I am not prepared to support the above two blood suckers with my money.
All these figures are from WA, however other States have variations to charges, how ever the RE mob you have problems to avoid. Most other comments mention the same as I do
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
11:09am
Stamp duty and lawyer's fees you cannot avoid, bobm. But you still can sell and buy property without one of those real estate johnnies. Buying is easier then selling, just managed to buy the place we are in by letter boxing the places we considered moving to. Some elderly lady had to go to a Nursing Home and was only too happy with a cash offer to sell her house. We offered about what was the average in the neighborhood and split the cost of the Real Estate agent which we avoided paying. We saved $2000 and the lady saved $2000. Still needed a solicitor to do the papers and the Govt wanted the stamp duty.
Travellersjoy
15th Nov 2019
11:00am
The money would be nice, assuming I get enough to buy a smaller place in a decent area, but nothing can replace the years of friendships, neighbours, membership of organisations etc that make up the community that keeps me healthy and happy.

I am really really tired of the bean counters who think money is the be-all and end-all of existence, and who usually have plenty of it so are at no risk of being forced to move, deciding what is best for people whose lives they know absolutely nothing about - except the money stuff, of course.

No doubt they are asking us to make sacrifices for 'the greater good', but since that only means my hard earned savings going to benefit those with much more money than me, I will not be obliging.

Selling out pensioners because the government will not properly house the population is not my personal problem. This is a political problem and an economic problem created by neo-liberalism and maintained by neo-liberal propaganda.

I am saving my country money by staying in my home and community rather than becoming a burden through illness and disability - or worse, stored, abused and starved in one of the care homes this government is happy to license so they can get their hands on my home and savings.

Time for a government that knows the value of things and people instead of just the cost.
Kaz
15th Nov 2019
11:48am
Agreed. What about the children of the retirees and grandkids. Their inheritance will buy them a home so all’s well that ends well.
Rae
15th Nov 2019
3:03pm
Yes Kaz time to think and fight for our own better lives and better lives for our kid's and let others get on building their own homes somewhere else. Plenty of land in Australia and they always knew there wasn't enough water. So put tanks in.
TREBOR
17th Nov 2019
2:02am
Sad that at the time when we most want to fight no more forever.. we are forced to do so by these scum, Rae, with their attitude that everyone outside their group is a serf to be played like a chess piece.
floss
15th Nov 2019
11:01am
Why should they downsize and would I trust any scheme proposed by this corrupt government, you would always loose out in some way.
floss
15th Nov 2019
11:08am
Sound the alarm bell this government is shaping up to some scheme to over come the housing shortages due to over population.Time to shut the gate a bit late really.
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
12:33pm
Lock The Gates!
pjvixen
15th Nov 2019
11:13am
Of course we are still living in our original residence. Why should we be forced to move? It is impossible to buy in the same area for the money we receive and we live where we are convenient to amenities we need plus family and friends. Making new friends with common interests later in life is not easy and many do not wish to live in Units which is all we could afford after the costs of moving are applied.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
3:31pm
best way to avoid being forced to move is increasing resilience and not being reliant upon others for income.
thommo
15th Nov 2019
11:18am
I haven't owned my house for 10 years, so I won't be downsizing....MOrrison has done himself a disservice by restricting home ownership for 10 years before downsizing and putting the proceeds into super.
Instead, I upsized with the obvious benefits....
Rae
15th Nov 2019
3:06pm
Well done Thommo. This privatised retirement scheme is turning into a real nightmare.

We should have realised it would never work in Australia and foreign shocks would have at the money which according to some reports is costing tens of billions every year.
MICK
15th Nov 2019
6:14pm
Upsizing can be the difference between no pension and a pension as you have less money left to live on. Its one of the reasons the government want people to do the opposite. The worst option.
You did the right thing thommo.
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
6:48pm
At least there is no restriction on upsizing - I am waiting for that lottery win and I leave the unit to get back into a house. Govt people reckon we all want to live in small places - if you have a house as well as spending money: STAY PUT. Ask the kids for some help by all means, they end up with the pile sooner or later.
bobm
15th Nov 2019
11:19am
I agree with the Mariners comments.
I am lucky to have a Diploma of Real Estate Management, Have a full understanding of Real Estate Law and any other Act of Parliament as a State Examiner of all the Land Administration Acts in WA.
I don't have a problem, however it is the other retirees who do not have this knowledge could be caught out and get done.
I am one that can work through the paperwork and I have tutored prospective Lawyers and Real Estate Agents on the paper work.
I am only bringing to attention of many retirees that make it hard for them to make an informed choice.
Just Cruising
15th Nov 2019
11:19am
70 years old now. Have done the numbers on downsizing a few times. Basically if you can afford to live and maintain the larger property do not move till you have to. Say appreciation on a $700k property over 5 years compared to a $400k unit over 5 years. Use a 5% annual gain each year and you are 5% per year tax free gain better off each year. If you downsize you stick the $300k in the bank at very low interest which affects pension and taxable. My logic is stay where I am if cash flow allows.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
3:49pm
you are not pricing in risk that "a 5% annual gain each year" might not happen as you forecast ... just ask people who have seen property values fall. And the $300k does not need to be stuck in the bank on minimum interest and might be worth more to you in a flat or falling property market despite the effect upon pension and taxable income.
KeyC
15th Nov 2019
11:21am
This concept of 'downsizing' is just not going away!
Most of us would know this concept comes from policy makers and the 'learned' advisors to governments and others in the political chain.
As far as I am concerned governments cannot be trusted. Having worked in the Age Care and Health sector I have seen far too much to know that governments and advisors are keeping an eye on more and more sources of revenue which includes your home and savings.
No prizes for guessing: again the aged have to cough up the spoils! Downsizing is actually a far costly concept to the older folk. Besides; the government can just as easily design policies to get a 'fist-full' of the downsizing sale takings! Tax, tax and more tax...
Furthermore, they would then 'hit' you with denying access to pension and all concessions if you exceed their criteria to qualify for any government assistance.
It is on record that governments have neglected the aged - badly neglected and lied to them that they will have access to Home Care Packages to "remain in their own homes for as long as they want....." What did we find and experience? There are no packages unless you live long enough [fingers crossed and prayers] because there are no packages on the horizon. We all know that is how the politicians have twisted the arm of the aged to leave their homes and move into nursing homes - and pay an accommodation bond to the nursing home plus your daily fees [ fair enough]. But we all know once in the nursing home; if you don't cark it quick enough, the mistreatment in nursing homes will knock you off.
And so it goes on: the 'sausage making machine" for the nursing home owners [ who now cry wolf they're not making money - really - pull the other one....]
Ah, I could go on and on. No downsizing for me. Thanks. For the various generations my advice is get your priorities sorted in order of need. Put your travel around the world on hold, go on local holidays in Australia or go and camp with your family. Drive your car for as long as it is road-worthy and safe- you don't have to change to top model vehicles every alternate year. Save money and pay cash before buying all the extra luxuries....blah blah blah.
Now that might sound like a baby boomer mindset - but that is how these baby boomers got to save and earn and learn to look after their hard-earned assets. I have baby boomer parents and family. They worked very hard for it. And I don't envy or begrudge them one iota. This is their time to sail, train, motor home etc. And needs no reminding that some of the baby boomers have gone to a world war with all due respect to all veterans who have sacrificed for the peace and living conditions we all enjoy. Young generations would have no idea what it must feel like to have no basic commodities let alone luxuries.Of course, the world has changed through modern tech, but the basics remain the same.
Well, let me close this for now. Cheers.
Kaz
15th Nov 2019
11:53am
Great rave!
KeyC
15th Nov 2019
11:21am
This concept of 'downsizing' is just not going away!
Most of us would know this concept comes from policy makers and the 'learned' advisors to governments and others in the political chain.
As far as I am concerned governments cannot be trusted. Having worked in the Age Care and Health sector I have seen far too much to know that governments and advisors are keeping an eye on more and more sources of revenue which includes your home and savings.
No prizes for guessing: again the aged have to cough up the spoils! Downsizing is actually a far costly concept to the older folk. Besides; the government can just as easily design policies to get a 'fist-full' of the downsizing sale takings! Tax, tax and more tax...
Furthermore, they would then 'hit' you with denying access to pension and all concessions if you exceed their criteria to qualify for any government assistance.
It is on record that governments have neglected the aged - badly neglected and lied to them that they will have access to Home Care Packages to "remain in their own homes for as long as they want....." What did we find and experience? There are no packages unless you live long enough [fingers crossed and prayers] because there are no packages on the horizon. We all know that is how the politicians have twisted the arm of the aged to leave their homes and move into nursing homes - and pay an accommodation bond to the nursing home plus your daily fees [ fair enough]. But we all know once in the nursing home; if you don't cark it quick enough, the mistreatment in nursing homes will knock you off.
And so it goes on: the 'sausage making machine" for the nursing home owners [ who now cry wolf they're not making money - really - pull the other one....]
Ah, I could go on and on. No downsizing for me. Thanks. For the various generations my advice is get your priorities sorted in order of need. Put your travel around the world on hold, go on local holidays in Australia or go and camp with your family. Drive your car for as long as it is road-worthy and safe- you don't have to change to top model vehicles every alternate year. Save money and pay cash before buying all the extra luxuries....blah blah blah.
Now that might sound like a baby boomer mindset - but that is how these baby boomers got to save and earn and learn to look after their hard-earned assets. I have baby boomer parents and family. They worked very hard for it. And I don't envy or begrudge them one iota. This is their time to sail, train, motor home etc. And needs no reminding that some of the baby boomers have gone to a world war with all due respect to all veterans who have sacrificed for the peace and living conditions we all enjoy. Young generations would have no idea what it must feel like to have no basic commodities let alone luxuries.Of course, the world has changed through modern tech, but the basics remain the same.
Well, let me close this for now. Cheers.
double j
15th Nov 2019
11:27am
I would consider going the other way and apply for the Pensioners Loan Scheme , take that money and.use it for home alterations to accommodate a live in person , maybe rent free in exchange for 10 or 15 hrs of house maintenance. But befor that happens we could offer our place pour as a B & B. The income would be restricted so as to not affect our current situation
sunnyOz
15th Nov 2019
1:56pm
Double J - surely you must be joking....Pensioner Loan Scheme? - no better than a reverse mortgage. It's a total rort with an interest rate that that is ludicrous.
Have someone live in rent free for 10-15 hours maintenance? - Gee - if you have used the PLS to pay for work on your house, there shouldn't be any maintenance! If you do charge rent - Centerlink will be after you. Good luck with that one.
Run a B&B? - Quick way to reduce your pension, PLUS have to pay tax on it.
Kaz
15th Nov 2019
11:37am
Why are they so intent on us downsizing? Don’t they have other more important things to do?
Rae
15th Nov 2019
3:17pm
They've brought 12 billion extra people in who all want to live where we do. No plans just create a big GDP and pretend all is working when it obviously isn't.
Rae
15th Nov 2019
3:18pm
Sorry 12 million haha. How good was Sydney back when the population of Australia was 12 million and we used to say " See ya later"?
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
3:33pm
Rae - those days are gone, I miss them and I am a blow in from 1970 - 49 years in 2 days' time. I remember that 'cause C/L wanted to know my arrival date.
Horace Cope
15th Nov 2019
11:52am
We don't wish to downsize nor do we wish to avail ourselves of a reverse mortgage. While we are still able to maintain our home we will continue to live here. There are many reasons we choose to do that, we have good neighbours who care, we have children and grandchildren who don't live locally and there is always room for them when they want to visit and all of the services we need are available and close.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
3:58pm
if everything is hunky dory and you don't have a need to change then it's really simple, don't. You are fortunate that you do not have to consider prospering in retirement or the possibilities of poverty.
marls
15th Nov 2019
12:23pm
I won’t downsize the cost involved a waste of approx $50,000* no other civilised country wants the aged to down size or do they talk about including the family home in the assets test these other civilised country’s don’t have a meanstest
Rae
15th Nov 2019
3:20pm
Civilised Countries all have Universal Aged Pensions. Obviously we are not quite civilised enough yet to join them.
Sundays
15th Nov 2019
1:01pm
We downsized 10 years ago to be closer to the beach and other amenities. A great move for us and we are happy. However, it wasn’t cheaper. I also don’t understand how including part of the family home in the Asset test would make downsizing more attractive. It’s another grab to make people use the equity in their home to fund their retirement. The jealousy towards those who have bought a home through hard work and sacrifice had to stop
Mad as Hell
15th Nov 2019
1:18pm
I don’t want to downsize or take out a pension loan. Just return the pensioner assets test to the pre 2017 level.
Captain
15th Nov 2019
2:02pm
Man, with you all the way.

Universal pension for all over 65 with number of years worked as criteria for full pension. A change in the tax system (as I have detailed in this forum before) could be funded by all Companies paying tax on earnings and all retired individuals paying tax on earnings above the pension rate.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
4:00pm
good summary Captain. Nice and succinct without the purple prose.
AutumnOz
15th Nov 2019
1:31pm
We have lived in our current home for over 40 years so why should be made to move out of it?
I am fed up with government people, or advisors, picking on older people who have every right to remain in their home - after all they paid for it.
Are these various experts trying to kill us all off with stress related illnesses?
Tricky
15th Nov 2019
1:37pm
WTF Professor Whelan wants to bludgeon elderly citizens into down sizing their lifetime home, move to an unfamiliar location, change medical practitioners, loose contact with family and friends.

What medication is this Professor on.
Captain
15th Nov 2019
2:06pm
One of the Wit brothers who have no real life experience.

"Academia Isolation" tends to give those with the disease an inflated view of themselves and a lack of perception regarding other people's situations.
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
7:03pm
Academic rigor mortis...... you do realise that 'professors' are on a great income plus the best super etc, without a moment's hard work?? What need to they have to face reality on a daily basis?
Alan
15th Nov 2019
2:45pm
There are two of us living in a five bedroom house. Our son, he has major health problems, lives in a one bedroom house - appropriate to his needs which is also located on our block. We provide substantial support to him - both monetary and physical and mental support so while he is alive we are not able to downsize.

Currently there is no problem with maintaining the house and the almost half acre that comes with the house but in another 10 years or so who can tell.

With all that there is no incentive to downsize - no scope for the Pension unless we buy a McMansion which is not on my agenda. To some extent we are trapped because of the need to provide for our son, but at the same time I enjoy a large low maintenance garden.
Rae
15th Nov 2019
2:51pm
I don't want to grow the economy. I want it to shrink. It's too big, crowded and unpleasant now. And expensive and not working.
Thanks Professor but no thanks. You sell and go live in a shoebox.

I really wish Keating had never privatised retirement. It was better back in mum and dad's times in my opinion.
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
3:36pm
Totally right you are, Rae.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
4:04pm
what stop the economic merry go round? Now that would create interesting times and let the loose the hounds.
Joy
15th Nov 2019
3:17pm
Our house is our home, a lot more than just bricks and mortar.
It's not a Macmansion and I doubt very much we could afford anything if we sold.
Not all retirees have had things handed to us on a plate,we worked hard for what we got and we are keeping hold of it . Why should we feel penalised just to please this generation that expect everything now Get off our backs
Paige363
15th Nov 2019
3:29pm
I totally agree with you Joy. We worked for what we have and should be entitled to our own decision on whether we keep it or not. Well said.
Mollymoo
15th Nov 2019
3:21pm
I bought a 2 bedroom unit 4 years ago with the intent to downsize, I rented it out for 3 1/2 years and have finally moved in. Its fabulous, no lawns to mow, no pool to take care of and no maintenance costs. I have everything I want and can lock it up and travel whenever I want. Best thing I ever did. Only person complaining is my son.
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
3:42pm
The only negative I can see is the Body Corp fees - I am in that position. Luckily I can afford them but we do have a few people who have to move after the partner passes on and the single pension comes on. Some of the Body Corps here in high rises are $1000 a month and the rates are extra. The modest one (mine, minimum) is roughly $2600 a year. Insurance is the culprit. A unit has to be insured a house totally owned does not. Would not recommend that in the fire season we have now.

15th Nov 2019
3:21pm
The Government, Centrelink and every other bl--dy department that is trying to gain money and take from us what we have worked hard for and dream of having and ACHIEVED! should pi-- off and look to other areas of society to nag and pinch pennies off....I am sick of being treated like one of many piggy banks the powers at be THINK they can use as a grab bag for all the financial errors they make! It seems that 2019 is the year for protests all around the world....WHY aren't we powering up our walkers, and slap on some arthritis pain killing creams and walk down some of the main streets of the Capital cities of Australia!? Complaining on the internet doesn't seem to raise one bushy eyebrow in Canberra....but protest marching seems to gather their attention!
Anonymous
15th Nov 2019
4:02pm
Put our pensions where our mouths are and defend what we have worked many years for and in some cases STILL do! Doesn't anybody over the age of 55 have any "bottle"?
Paige363
15th Nov 2019
3:27pm
It should be our choice to downsize or not. We have worked for what we have and if we want to keep it why shouldn't we? I don't know what I will do when it comes to full retirement but it should be my choice alone.
45er
15th Nov 2019
3:54pm
Unfortunately their are many older Australian like myself who have been through divorce and remarriage, and had minimual amounts of super. My wife I myself have set up our situation so we do not own the house jointly, but own 50% each. In the event of one dying, the remaining one can remain living the house until either the surviving spouse, dies, moves, or remarries, at which time the pre deceased's family shall get their half share. With the cost of maintaining the property, we both agree we would probably sell up shortly after the first one died, and get a smaller lower maintenance property with our half share. We would be selling and buying on the same market so prices parity would be a constant. The main problem is that we would most likely be unable to afford to buy another property in Melbourne with our half share, so would have to relocate to a regional centre. If we sold up now and downsized, investment the funds would not keep up with property growth and we be even worse off.
Rae
16th Nov 2019
8:00am
There is the problem Professor Whelan and economists can't answer. If we have to save hundreds of thousands of dollars, even millions what do we all do to achieve any returns on investments today at current prices and risk levels.

Too many people are chasing too low yields and it's not working.

A couple or even single is better off with a house and the aged pension. It should never have come to this if the Central Banks hadn't dropped interest rates and banks created trillions in debt.

What happens in a major crash? Are we really if it happens?

The suggestion we convert all savings including the house to cash and spend it ending up very old with no money left is very bad advice.

Besides taxes do not pay government pensions. The Government could easily pay a universal pension to everyone and forget about tax concessions for superannuation and stop all the market distortions. It would not cause inflation right now at all.
Chuck
15th Nov 2019
4:06pm
this is another stupid idea from these idiot thinktanks. I thought we lived in a democratic country. What about all the relationships you've built up over the 20 or more years. Friendships with neighbours and shopkeepers. Being close to my doctor, dentist and physio and solicitor. It's not just a matter of money, its also were you feel most comfortable.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
7:38pm
what is undemocratic about thinktanks, idiot or otherwise? Whatever your thoughts on democracy, your comment suggests you are no fan of freedom of expression.
Rae
16th Nov 2019
8:04am
Thinktanks are not the problem Farside. They should be very clear about their ideological belief though because most of them have strong ideologies powering their opinions.

And they are just opinions whether coming from a fascist extreme or from a communist bent.

Think tanks brave enough to admit to the ideology driving them would be refreshing and anyway we can take or leave their opinions anyway can't we?
Farside
16th Nov 2019
12:53pm
Chuck is the one suggesting the thinktanks have no place in a democratic country. Personally, I like the contest of ideas. And yes, I agree thinktanks should be clear about their politics however this is relative to the observer. You do not have to look hard to find those nearer the sensible centre labelled across the political spectrum by their detractors and supporters.
TREBOR
17th Nov 2019
2:09am
Leave it Farsie - Rae is correct... maybe we need a rule that 'thinktanks' must declare their ideology and political adherence.

I mean - would anyone accept the same view from a thinktank that identifies with Faroffistani supremacy (as an example).. or would they laugh? This reminds me of what I said about Howard and the Gulf War - if Howard were an ordinary citizen and he stood on a street corner declaring that we needed to go to war with Iraq.... he's be locked up.....

If a board of twelve created by a government had no power, but instead stood on a street corner and declared closure of Ayers Rock.....

Is there a moment of awakening yet?
Oldman Roo
15th Nov 2019
4:16pm
Downsizing is simply not for everyone and should not be made the general rule in old age . The wife and I are close to 80 and are not in the best health any more , but can manage the way we are . We love our home , live close to our son and Yes , a very serious medical condition could eventually force us to sell or use up every cent we have to pay for help in order to stay on .We have moved once in in our lifetime and would rather battle on than parting with just about everything , including the cat we never want to lose . and destroy all memories and lifestyle .
So , do not listen to Politicians and Business people that want to capitalise on getting you out of your home and do WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU .
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
4:33pm
As I said long ago - if your property has increased that much in price that you are becoming a target of the Grattan Institute to sell your property; the Govt should introduce a modest inheritance tax for estates of more than $2 million. That is better than trying to scare people out of their houses they lived in all these years. I know it is not popular but since all the people here are always talking about universal pension overseas and how much better the system is over there no-one mentions those countries having death duties I should know, my Mum paid a lot of money when Dad passed away. Would have been even more if the children would have inherited the place. Universal pensions only work if enough people are putting in.
JR
15th Nov 2019
5:14pm
Wanted to downsize but the smaller places we looked at (moving further out from where we are), which would have been suitable were much more expensive than ours. Also the hassle of furniture storing and renting until the current residence is sold do not make it worthwhile. Agree with Ok.
cupoftea
15th Nov 2019
5:55pm
Why sell if you don't have to and what ever this government says they are not doing it for you they will have to drag me out in shekels when are people going realise what this government is and when they do it will be to late
MICK
15th Nov 2019
6:18pm
Good to see the government trolls are absent. Its a no brainer NOT to downsize unless there are extenuating circumstances.
I don't trust either side of politics and the current government is not to be trusted as far as you can throw them.
TREBOR
15th Nov 2019
7:05pm
Throw them? It's damned near impossible to even lift a leaner ...
Brissiegirl
15th Nov 2019
6:22pm
All these bleating older-age home-owner haters can simply rack off. Since when does any government tell us where to live, how to live and when to "downsize"? What we do with our houses, our savings, our family dynamics is nobody else's business and if they keep it up the resistance to "downsizing"will just increase as an indignant method of telling them to butt out. I'm sick to death of coming to this site only to find some new or repeat column trying to convince old people who got their houses by hard work and sacrifice that they are now a problem. The problem is with the cupboard socialists who think that other people's assets are really theirs.
Farside
15th Nov 2019
7:43pm
If cupboard socialists are the problem then what are do you call those who expect to be provided with government services, benefits and pensions? There is no good term for those wanting to privatise income and share expenses.
TREBOR
17th Nov 2019
2:13am
They ARE provided with Social Security, Farside..... all bought and paid for out of an income tax component that was never rescinded.

"government services, benefits and pensions" - I do trust you include politicians and public servants and the military etc in that....

What about a 'board member' for Australian Airships Procurement Corporation - a QANGO? Are they entitled to expect "government services, benefits and pensions"? They surely get them...
Farside
17th Nov 2019
12:22pm
Trebor, it's likely pollies, public servants, ADF and QANGO members happily avail themselves of government provided services, which would include them in the "cupboard socialist" camp. What is the tribal name for those receiving services but then objecting to the related taxes, conditions and intrusion into private lives i.e "where to live, how to live"?
TREBOR
17th Nov 2019
11:18pm
Well - services provided are part and parcel of the 'social contract' - you pay taxes and work etc, and in return for loaning government your money so it can run, they provide services for all...

If you like - it's an inversion of the Menzies principle about social security - that stipulated that all could draw from a common pot contributed into by all....no ifs or buts... so now the contribution is into a common pot called 'government cash flow', and in return all can draw from it....

The question these days, of course is who exactly can draw from it via the countless devious means provided by ideological governments... water trading schemes, privatisation in all its forms, excessive pay and perks for themselves, donations to business that is allegedly more efficient than public enterprise, handouts excessive for having children, immigrants, gifts to superannuation funds, tax concessions for business and those on high incomes....

The discussion list is endless..... and the question is - which of these is really Entitled™ to this largesse of OUR money contributed into the pot, or added to from additional streams such as borrowings....???

WHO precisely should all this lovely be going to and on what basis and on what 'triage' system?

Should those on high incomes receive an income tax cut before those on nothing get an Unemployment Benefit rise?

Should business get more tax deductions instead of pensioners getting a rise?

Should new mothers on $150k + hubby's income get PPL out of the public purse (since they are obviously incapable of effective budgeting) - or should single mothers on part time casual of ten hours a week get a rise and a full calculated PPL at a base rate for a full week's work??

Should people in a dual income family (the MADIF) receive childcare cash rather than single unemployeds get more services?

It's all in the way you disburse and disperse the cash - and that is the real question for today..... where our money is going and precisely why it goes to some.
Cheezil61
15th Nov 2019
6:28pm
Would like a smaller home right in town now (I'm 58) before i stop working & need Centrelink but even if i chose a home of the same or less value (if they were actually availabe for same or less cost than mine) I would still have to fork out another $50,000 for stamp duty & real estate agent commussion! Why would i throw away that sort of money to receive nothing in return for it!
That's without other expenses like when i moved to current home had to spend another $20,000 on wardrobes, linen press, finishing off rendering that hadn't been done or maybe shedding, floor coverings or painting etc can all add up! Better off gifting that sort of money to the kids rather than throw it away -if i actually had any money in savings of course (& i don't) 5yrs before needing Centrelink of course lol
Cheezil61
15th Nov 2019
6:36pm
Edit: oh yer & to top it off my power bills & gas & water, rates etc would all be more expensive moving into town! I got it pretty good here wit free rain water & bottled LPG gas with no expensive meter charges just because its connected (different in town paying $30 plus jus to have it connected without te usage etc)
Mariner
15th Nov 2019
6:52pm
At 58 you might need more than the 5 years before age pension. You cannot live on Newstart.
Cheezil61
16th Nov 2019
12:43am
Thanks Mariner but i don't think moving is a good option anyway as per so many others here
Stone the Crows
15th Nov 2019
7:10pm
I only have a typical unit
But how dare any politician , government minister or anyone tell me I have to downsize or move etc. Basically its none of their dam business
'Chelle03
16th Nov 2019
9:44am
How the hell do they think they are?
"Prof. Whelan believes that including a portion of the family home in the asset test and replacing stamp duty with a land tax could make downsizing more attractive"
How dare you think that you can tell people how and where they should live. If they want to stay in their home, that is their right. It is their home that they have worked and paid for. The decision to relocate or downsize is a personal choice and should NOT be pushed upon people by taxes and less right to a pension. They could also be keeping the home to pass onto their children when they die??!!!!
It is not up to the older generations who have worked hard and have their own homes to "move out or downsize' because of govt policy failure and economics issues. Perhaps Prof Whelan may like to advise the Govt on how best to provide affordable housing for the younger generations instead of looking to taxing the older generation to compensate for their ineptitude.
"
"
GrayComputing
16th Nov 2019
10:10am
Down sizing results in major economic losses for the down sizers.
But government and private coffers swell as a result.
On this great site the far too many usual well paid "experts" or government lackeys themselves living in luxury and large houses or apartments continue to advise us poorer people on how to loose our assets and steal our pocket money by the cunning stealth and ill advise.
SHAME ON ALL YOU ROBBER BARONS AND EVIL LACKEYS FOR THE SUPER RICH
Loza
16th Nov 2019
11:43am
Maybe prof Whelan has a house that can be downsized but a lot of the older homes sizes would be classed as down sizing these days
Franky
16th Nov 2019
1:33pm
Especially as we get older we prefer our own spaces and surroundings where friends and family are. The cost of downsizing in the same community is rather large, buying and selling, taxes, agents, stamp duties etc, so it's a step backwards. Also we know our own homes but buying something else sometimes also means buying someone else's problems, especially if it's not a new dwelling. Easier to keep the maintenance up on your own home and make it as user friendly and low in maintenance as possible.
Chris B T
16th Nov 2019
5:24pm
Unless you have in the Past lived in multiple locations around Australia or Other Country's, than You are in for a Reality Shock.
Not all locations are "welcoming" of "NEWBIES" even after many years at location.
If it is essential for your well being move, if not the Small Change Isn't Worth the Hassle.
Packing, sorting out your Treasures what to keep as downsizing in home size is relative to what you can keep.
Think Long and Hard Before you Move as near impossible to come back.
Better off staying if this is going to be your first move or haven't moved in a long time.
TREBOR
17th Nov 2019
1:58am
What right does anyone even have to attempt to persuade older Australians to move?

At what point did older (age undefined) citizens become total vassals of the state and subject to the whim of the state's rulers? Think back to the forced eviction of the old pensioners at The Rocks, people... now the Macquarie Street sewerage treatment plant are trying the same thing on you... guess you missed it...

That straight enough for you?
Farside
17th Nov 2019
12:28pm
Trebor, it's surprising to read you want to suppress free speech on this occasion. Is it because you don't like the idea being expressed or just finding it difficult to make an equally persuasive argument against it?
TREBOR
17th Nov 2019
11:23pm
Where did I say they were not entitled to the opinion?

I'm saying, without mincing words, that their opinion is wrong, brutal and fatally flawed....

BTW - did you get a say over the closure of Ayers Rock? Or any number of other things? You weren't even asked for an opinion, let alone any opportunity to persuade anyone on those issues, let alone given a vote ....

When did the government ask your opinion before removing the pensioners from The Rocks by forced eviction and deportation?
Farside
18th Nov 2019
1:44pm
"What right does anyone even have to attempt to persuade older Australians to move?" Are you now saying they have a right to that opinion?

And since you ask I was not consulted in relation to Ayers Rock, Uluru or the plagiarised Statement from the Heart. Also not asked about eviction and deportation of pensioners from The Rocks but I am even less informed on that issue so little to contribute to that conversation.
hyperbole
20th Nov 2019
4:26pm
It was the Aboriginal people who stopped climbers on Ayers Rock nothing to do with the government at all
musicveg
17th Nov 2019
8:01pm
Who benefits when older people downsize? Are they trying to free up housing?
Paddington
17th Nov 2019
8:12pm
It could also be addressed to all singles and couples not just the elderly as well.
Many decide to stay child free and some singles are happy to be just that.
Then you have all the vacant dwelling!
Another thing I have noticed is the the term, ‘boomers,’ is being used in a derogatory way, has anyone else noticed that?
Being old is hard enough without being bullied. And we should not be mean to each others as there are plenty already doing that making us feel bad and a burden.
musicveg
17th Nov 2019
8:43pm
The new saying is "ok boomer" "OK boomer is a viral internet slang phrase used, often in a humorous or ironic manner, to call out or dismiss out-of-touch or close-minded opinions associated with the baby boomer generation and older people more generally". So it is a bit derogatory and assuming all in that generation is "out of touch".
TREBOR
17th Nov 2019
11:02pm
**ROFL** so we can safely say OK Stripling.. or whatever?

What a joke... wait until they manage to grow into their noses... then they can have a view that means something..

Use of such terms give a new meaning to the term 'close-minded'.... ahhhhh -ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ....
BillF2
18th Nov 2019
12:00am
Professor Whelan's research, apart from being a good little money spinner, seems to lack depth of investigation and a failure to understand what life is like for older people. He fails to understand that older people are more resistant to change of any sort, unless there is a very good, sensible reason for doing so. He notes that loss of partner may be one of the reasons for change, but likewise fails to recognise that loss of neighbours and friends, locality (shops, doctors, transport etc.), and familiarity with surroundings and neighbourhood are reasons against change. He utterly fails to present a cogent argument in favour of downsizing, yet by suggesting it is necessary, shows that he is just another (well remunerated) puppet for government propaganda. My advice to the good professor is - don't push too hard, because what goes around, comes around.
willie
18th Nov 2019
12:58am
cut out stamp duty and no income and assett test and you will see things differently
Linda
18th Nov 2019
5:28pm
Well, lets look at negative gearing, franking credits, limited new builds often those made with shonky materitals. The government of the day and those before them seem too lazy and to scared to do other things that could open up the housing market. For some their house or property is their investment. To others it is their home. We know our neighbors, and they are quiet people. We are close to shops and services. We worked hard to pay off our place and to also make it ready for our old age. I can't really agree that oldies should be forced to downsize, when we did not manufacture the current problems. Somehow making us the people responsible for the plight of young folks is simply a load of BS. What made this situation is those things mentioned in the first part of my post and the unwillingness to give up the big fat money maker incentives and to forget to invest in public housing and to be overjoyed about the massive rise in property values. If we could be assured of a smooth move that we could afford to make, if we could find a place on the flat with no stairs, know our neighbors would be decent folks and live quietly like we do, and not end up with so much less money by doing so, then I might consider it. I am very angry and disapointed that some want to paint old folks in their paid for homes as the villians in this business. We are being toyed with by the financial advisers, the bank interest (NONE), the real estate goblins, the stamp duty collectors, and our political leadership. Next we will be shot after our working lives are over. All we seem to be is economic units to be exploited from cradle to grave.
SKRAPI
18th Nov 2019
7:12pm
TOTALLY AGREE WITH OJ21 . MOST OF US OLDER/ELDERLY PEOPLE HAVE WORKED DAMNED HARD , DONE WITHOUT MANY THINGS & SAVED HARD 2 OWN OUR HOMES NOW THEY WANT US 2 SHARE OFTEN THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE WITH OTHERS WHO MAY B HAVEN'T WORKED/ SAVED AS HARD . THIS IS THE FABIAN WORSHIPERS THEY LOVE SOCIALISM .
SKRAPI
18th Nov 2019
7:17pm
MEANT 2 SAY 2 THAT OFTEN WE OLDIES KNOW MANY IN THE COMMUNITY & HAVE FRIENDS THERE WHICH GIVES ADDED SECURITY . ALSO GREAT 2 GO DOWN ST.& MEET FRIENDS MAY B SEVERAL NEIGHBOURS IN THE ONE MORNING . GIVES A LIFT 2 THE SPIRIT


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