11th May 2016
Age Pension: is it being cut?
Close up worried mature womans hand holding empty purse

Sally is sure that she’s read somewhere that the Age Pension will be cut following the Budget 2016/17 announcement. Is this true?

Q. Sally

I’m sure I read somewhere after the announcements on Budget 2016/17 that the Age Pension will be cut by about $10 for members of a couple and $14 for singles. Is this true? If so, this is ridiculous, because as it’s already too hard to live on the meagre Age Pension and I for one can't afford to lose $14 a fortnight from my income.

There was an announcement as part of Budget 2016/17 that the Clean Energy Supplement would not be paid to new recipients of the Age Pension from 20 September 2016. That means that if you are currently on the Age Pension, you will continue to receive the Clean Energy Supplement, which is paid at the rate of $10.60 for each eligible member of a couple and $14.10 for singles.

For those who are granted an Age Pension after 20 September 2016, the Clean Energy Supplement will no longer be paid, which could be considered by some as a cut.

Correction:  'the Clean Energy Supplement would not be paid to new recipients of the Age Pension from 20 September 2016' replaced 'the Clean Energy Supplement would not be paid to new recipients of the Age Pension after 1 July 2017' and 'For those who are granted an Age Pension after 20 September 2016' replaced 'For those who are granted an Age Pension after 1 July 2017'.

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    COMMENTS

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    oceanblue30
    16th May 2016
    10:20am
    This is bloody ridiculous how dare they cut the age pension.. These people have worked hard all there life and have to live like everyone else it's a case of rob the poor to pay the rich but stop letting all these immigrants in and are all on welfare and taking our government housesI've been waiting 13 years for a house and told I probably won't get one cause all the immigrants get them before anyone else it's bullshit and the liberal government need to be bloody kicked out bring in Pauline Hanson and Jackie Lambert that would shake these rotten mongrels up I'm fed up with the government always fleecing the disadvantaged
    missmarple
    16th May 2016
    1:41pm
    Good on you oceanblue, I whole heartedly agree, people say Pauline and Jackie are nutters but by golly they are more in touch with the average AUSTRALIAN than any of the other blood suckers
    PlanB
    16th May 2016
    1:57pm
    I agree with you both I have had a gutful of the lot of the of the big two -- I am SICK to death of them and if this Liberal lot get in again then God help us as they will do what ever they want to and it will NOT be for the ordinary bloke you can bet your life on that.
    Retired Knowall
    16th May 2016
    2:29pm
    Go to Change .org and sign the petition to stop payment to Ex Pollies once they are voted out of office or retired.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    2:31pm
    Sounds Good in Theory ! :-) :-)
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:48pm
    Done that Knowall. The bastards will not listen but if the drip becomes a flood then they will relent. I await apathetic Australians being bothered though. Time will tell.
    moke
    16th May 2016
    5:21pm
    oceanblue you have it right on the knocker congratulations straight thinking
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    11:06am
    We do not get the pension nor any of the add-ons. It is clear though that pensioners have been made targets so that scrutiny in deflected from issues which this government supports:

    1. very low or even no taxes on the rich or big business. This is already underway in the current budget which talks about cuts for "Small business" to hide the truth that this is about Big Business and the rich who masquerade under 'company' entities.
    2. offshore Tax Havens for the big end of town to stash its money, hide its profits and avoid the Australian tax system which average Australians are compelled to use. The current PM has an offshore tax shelter.

    The only way average citizens can avoid what is going to be inflicted on them after the election is to ignore the media propaganda campaign which is already starting and not vote for coalition candidates. If people vote these bastards back in then we can really expect an attack on average people to escalate whilst the big end of town sees its bank accounts swell.
    happy
    16th May 2016
    12:38pm
    Absolute rubbish.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:53pm
    As coalition puppets always do happy. The facts are the facts and the form is the form.
    There's an old saying: 'if it don't work then stop doing it'. Clearly some of us have not yet worked that one out.
    Retired Knowall
    16th May 2016
    2:30pm
    Go to Change .org and sign the petition to stop payment to Ex Pollies once they are voted out of office or retired.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    2:35pm
    Hear hear(not here here) as some people type.
    I've signed the petition.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:49pm
    Done Knowall. Thanks for posting this.
    Alexii
    16th May 2016
    5:19pm
    Pensioners, self-funded retirees especially those on part pensions, and all the ordinary Joe Bloggs and Mary Smiths need their heads read if they vote for this mob in the elections.

    In my mail today was a leaflet from Malcolm Turnbull writing to ask me "to back his team's Plan for a Strong New Economy."

    What an insult to me as he is forcing me to accept a lower level of part pension from 1st January, 2017 as though I were a wealthy. Too bad that My wife and I are not wealthy and will have to struggle a bit more to make ends meet.
    Alex
    16th May 2016
    11:49pm
    We can also expect a 5% rise in the GST at the next Budget if the present Government is re elected. They were only put off it this year by the election being so close.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    7:43am
    Alexii, I wrote to Malcolm Turnbull objecting to his policies and he responded telling me he had ''referred the issue'' to Morrison, who didn't even answer me. That's the level of arrogance we are seeing from these corrupt, greedy bastards.

    THEY HAVE GOT TO GO!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    7:45am
    BTW. The issue I raised was something I wanted Turnbull to look at - NOT Morrison. Morrison had already responded with a pack of blatant lies and arithmetic that was completely incorrect.
    maggie01
    16th May 2016
    11:09am
    Well, this our chance to vote out the current government. I will not vote for Malcolm and his cronies! Hopefully they will be kicked out! what a mess they are!
    ray from Bondi
    16th May 2016
    11:20am
    here here
    Adrianus
    16th May 2016
    12:26pm
    maggie01, I hope you don't get your wish, because you will see what a mess looks like.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:42pm
    Good one maggie.
    Mess Frank? Like debt ceiling removed for Abbott to borrow huge sums of money? Or a deficit which has tripled under the current government? The Royal Commission into the opposition? The refusal to enact legislation to COMPEL the big end of town to pay the correct amount of taxes? The refusal to make offshore tax shelters illegal?
    Yeah Frank I recognise a mess and class warfare when I see it. And that's coming from a non leftie who can see the forest for the trees.
    Troll on dear boy................
    roy
    16th May 2016
    1:01pm
    There's MICK and his so childish troll word again, do try to grow up MICK, has all that skiing at altitude addled your brain I wonder?
    You are so self opinionated you must drive your wife and family bananas and people must hate sitting next to you at a dinner party.
    If the ALP get in because of efforts of people like you, wait for the strikes and the boats to start then you will understand what the word mess means.
    Class warfare, this from a man who is often skiing in Brackenridge and giving us tips on cruises and European holidays.
    Pontificator supremo.
    Troll on MICK but talk to your family when you can find time dear boy………..
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    1:06pm
    That you again Frank posting under a new name?
    Confront the CURRENT issues I touch on above. No heart for that? Just the same tired very old BS which you dredge up Frank.
    It must be tough working for the coalition which is heavily into its class warfare. Just keeps getting worse and this website is not censored like the big right wing controlled outlets. It must be painful mate.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    1:11pm
    MICK the troll at it again, how are you dear boy? Are you getting ready for the strikes and the boats yet?
    The weather out is quite nice today dear boy. Bored the pants off anybody at a dinner party lately dear boy?
    MICK for PM yeah.
    PlanB
    16th May 2016
    1:58pm
    Hear hear from me too and Frank we have a big enough bloody mess now and it will be even BIGGER if these maggots get in again.
    Aussie
    16th May 2016
    2:01pm
    Ummm careful boys ... they may do not like our comments ...they get the Shiiiiittttts and they eliminate the pension altogether and stuff all of us ....careful Malcolm is listening .....he he he
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    2:08pm
    Convert to Islam ! :-) They wont be Game To Cut You Off !! :-)
    Aussie
    16th May 2016
    2:27pm
    He He agreed with particolor ..... Viva the Islam he he he
    libsareliars
    16th May 2016
    4:37pm
    Agree maggie, get rid of these LNP maggots.
    nicestman77
    16th May 2016
    11:10am
    Politics in Australia is broken,at the next elections send them a message that we the rate payers are not happy with their performance as it stands now, vote well away from the major parties, and local governments.
    https://theconversation.com/senate-voting-changes-pass-so-how-do-we-elect-the-upper-house-now-55641?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=The+Weekend+Conversation+-+4523&utm_content=The+Weekend+Conversation+-+4523+CID_dad617bcf6664b3641cd53bb82eb30c7&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Senate+voting+changes+pass++so+how+do+we+elect+the+upper+house+now
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    11:16am
    As I have been saying for a long time: vote for Independents en masse and that will not only send a message but also serve to force both major parties to heal their perversions and dishonesty.
    For those who intend to do the above I might suggest that it is asked at the polling station as to whom the preference is going to so that voters do not inadvertently vote for this government.
    Adrianus
    16th May 2016
    1:06pm
    You both should be ashamed of your greedy self centred attitude. Here we have 2 homeowners one of whom owns a Sydney harbour side, complaining about a $14 clean energy supplement. What about the people who really need it? Those people will get an increase in their pension next year when the likes of you get less pension. Bludgers!
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:54pm
    The only person who should be shamed is you Frank for posting anti Labor spew devoid of honest information and clearly coming straight from Liberal Party HQ. The intent: to cause harm and get people to vote Liberal......the current worst of all options.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th May 2016
    5:06pm
    WRONG FRANK! Nobody who ''REALLY NEEDS IT'' is getting an increase. The increase, funded by stealing from savers who, in many cases, have far too little to last through their retirement, is being paid to people who have a few hundred thousand spare in the bank, including homeowners with a few hundred grand in assets. The really needy get NOTHING - NADA - ZILCH - NOT A SINGLE PENNY EXTRA.
    tj
    16th May 2016
    11:14am
    Debbie have you checked to see if this is the case ? or are you just trying it on
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    11:17am
    Do you have conflicting information tj? If so then this is the place to put it forward.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    1:24pm
    If 80 Cents rise in the Pension in a Year is trying it on I'll ......
    Koro
    16th May 2016
    11:16am
    How about cutting the Politicians wages, benefits, lurks and perks? Most are affluent in their own right without bludgeing on the pensioners and hard working class people!!! Nice one you self centered egotistical so called "Pollies" working for the people.

    How about walking in the shoes of those who are fair dinkum working class Aussies! I know who are the real scum in this wonderful country.
    ray from Bondi
    16th May 2016
    11:22am
    and it not so much about what they receive while serving if I may be so bold, but that they are entitled to outrageous benefits for the rest of their life, no waiting to they are sick and old like us plebs
    Retired Knowall
    16th May 2016
    2:32pm
    Go to Change .org and sign the petition to stop payment to Ex Pollies once they are voted out of office or retired.
    nicestman77
    16th May 2016
    11:22am
    Lets vote out all the serial politicians, they know the ropes to easy, Australia needs new younger, fast thinking blood in the high office, a few more women wouldn't go a stray, Mal-turd is a banker, who do you think he is going to favour, not Joe average, trust me, don't trust Mal-turd or Billy Short-legs.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    11:29am
    Vote for and Independent and change the game.
    But not with preferences going to the current bunch of big business owned puppets working the game for their rich funders!
    Snowwhite
    16th May 2016
    11:44am
    Nicestman77 be careful what you wish for!! It's all very well advising people to vote for an independent but be very sure who they are preferencing. You might find you end up voting for the major parties. And you could end up with the current toxic LNP Govt for another three years.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:25pm
    Got your posters mixed up Snowwhite.
    I do agree with you but the real issue is to vote out the worst of them. At present this is clearly the coalition government which is cannibalising working Australians. And yes if the Independent you vote for does not win a majority his/her preferences go to whoever that candidate nominates.
    I might suggest that if the best Independent sends his/her preferences to Liberal then find another one who does not. In the end it is about sending a strong message that voters will not be manipulated by propaganda and will get rid of lying deceitful bastard who has joined such a party.
    nicestman77
    16th May 2016
    11:27am
    Last week in was noted that the Libs borrowed $29 million or billion for overseas aid WTF are they doing, playing a game of snap?
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:13pm
    And this government HAS 3 TIMES THE DEFICIT of the previous government.
    Ever wondered why the media chooses not to use this against the current government given the ongoing attacks on Labor for a much much smaller amount of money?
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    2:52pm
    Desperate times call for desperate Measures ! Its nearly time to bring up The Pink Bats, Children Overboard, School Halls and Terrorism !! :-( :-(
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:55pm
    Come on down Frank, stan, Bonny, etc. Trolls Inc.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    8:12pm
    There's the troll word again.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    2:03pm
    The truth hurts.
    Fobwatch
    16th May 2016
    11:31am
    (1) Conservative economics, since time immemorial (William the Conqueror) has always been: tax the poor (that means everyone who isn't rich) to subsidise the very rich.

    (2) Every time Australia elects a party pushing policies to cruel most of the population, other parties who had wiser proposals lose heart. For example, when Malcolm Fraser was twice elected wih huge majorities despite disinvesting in essential services such as housing, the Labor party gave up building houses too and joined the gravy train of overpricing land to make money from the people in return for nothing.

    So the swinging voters have themselves to blame if they cannot afford a roof over their heads. Fistful of dollars, indeed! To whom?
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    11:38am
    I suspect that the big end of town and its ownership and control of media outlets had and still has a lot to do with influencing (conning!) voters in to how to vote.
    I am changing away from watching 9 News after a couple of weeks of the station grooming Turnbull for re-election. It is sickening stuff which is let go on....and you do not hear a peep from Labor about it on any media outlets.
    We need laws to prevent the big end of town controlling media propaganda campaigns. Until then the general public is and will remain susceptible to propaganda campaigns.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th May 2016
    7:41pm
    Hey Mick, did you see that the LNP has awarded Murdoch the contract to manage electronic voting? Any corruption going on there, do you think? Goodbye democracy!
    kinkakuji
    16th May 2016
    11:34am
    WHEN ARE PENSIONERS going to wake up and understand, WE have the power to shape legislation all WE need is the will power to do so--
    PLEASE SEND THIS BACK AROUND TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS
    POLITICIANS PLEASE PAY ATTENTION !
    FORWARDING THIS TO EVERYBODY.
    ‘Entitlement’ my arse, I paid good money for my Pension and other benefits. Just because they borrowed that money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or hand-out. Gold plated MP pensions and Civil Service Government benefits, aka free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, 20 weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call me a 'greedy pensioner' and my retirement, an ‘entitlement’... Scroll down .........
    What the HELL is wrong with us? WAKE UP Australia ! Someone please tell me what the HELL is wrong with all the people that run this country?
    We're "broke" & can't help our own Pensioners, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless etc., but spent 1.2 billion $$$'s for G-20 events!
    In the last few months we have provided aid to India, Greece and Turkey . And now Afghanistan , Pakistan ..... Home of bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS of Dollars Our retirees living on a 'fixed income', receive no aid nor do they get any breaks while our government and religious organisations pour Hundreds of Billions of $$$$'s and tons of food to foreign countries.
    They call Old Age Security and Healthcare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives, and now when it’s time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place?
    We have hundreds of adoptable children who are shoved aside to make room for the adoption of foreign orphans.
    AUSTRALIA: a country where we have homeless without shelter, children going to bed hungry, hospitals being closed, average income families who can't afford dental care, elderly going without 'needed' meds and having to travel hundreds of miles for medical care with no reimbursement of cost, vehicles we can't afford fuel for, lack of affordable housing, and mentally ill without treatment - etc., etc.
    YET... YET..
    They have a 'benefit' for the people of foreign countries...ships and planes lining up with food, water, tents, clothes, bedding, doctors, and medical supplies.
    Imagine if the *GOVERNMENT* gave 'US' the same support they give to other countries.
    Sad isn't it?
    99% of people won't have the guts to forward this.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    11:41am
    Pensioners as a cohort have the power to vote the bastards out, but many will go with their 'football team' political party rather than vote for the common good. In the end those who shoot themselves in both feet will look around for somebody to blame....other than themselves.
    I agree with you kinkakuji: use the numbers to put this lot out of office. Better still send both sides a message by voting Independent, bit with a preference going to Labor.
    Aussie
    16th May 2016
    12:36pm
    Mate Totally agree with you ... What in hell happend ???? We use to be a beautiful and very secure country and now ????.

    I sleep on my car for about 2 weeks near a police station and in parking lots and use the public toilets and go to the beach side to shower ..... Hell what a beautiful country what happened ???.

    Now I decide to save some money and move out to investigate other country because I was not prepared to sleep in my car any more.

    But Politicians have $100,000++ pension and lots of beautiful bed to sleep.
    I use to have that until I retire and spend all my super (Only $200,000) just to survive in Sydney.

    Asian countries is my answer I am out because whatever happens will not be any nice for us.
    I just live out of my reduce pension a fortnight $840 dollars and sleep and eat and shower like a rich politician

    By the way I am 73 .... Is this right for us pensioners that work and pay very big taxes for over 40 years ????? Not sure

    C
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    1:09pm
    I feel very sorry for any Australian who needs to sleep in his/her car. Must be awful.
    None of us is more than a hop skip and a jump away from bad luck and I often thank the Lord for having been dealt good cards. Take heart and hope you get out of the mess Aussie.
    Aussie
    16th May 2016
    1:52pm
    Thanks
    I am out of the mess I left Australia Now I sleep on a bed and eat properly and live with dignity.
    Thanks mate I am happy now maybe I just stay outside with my reduced pension I am looking at all possibilities.
    At the moment staying in Australia with a full pension and rental assistance will not make it even if I am lucky and get Gov. housing.
    Here I pay $145 x month rent 1 bedroom HOME not unit ....HOME and I purchase small second hand car to move around ...... Mate much better life and people respect you and very very safe
    C
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:56pm
    The best of a bad lot. Happy you have sort of fallen on your feet mate.
    HarrysOpinion
    16th May 2016
    5:35pm
    kinkakuji-Great comment. Just remember that we baby boomers paid in our income tax for the generation of pensioners before us, the pensioners who were homeless and the pensioners who were cash poor homeowners.
    Now that its our turn to be pensioners the following generations have turned against us.
    Cash poor homeowners will now have to sell off their homes and live off their sale proceeds until all that cash is eroded or if they want to stay in they will have no choice but to get pension loan by way of reverse mortgage which entails legal costs, mortgage insurance costs, statutory fees, bank fees, compounding interest and real estate agent commission.
    When these pensioners pass away the Banks, the Government and Real Estate agents will grease their selfish, greedy palms like hyenas and any beneficiaries to the Estate will end up getting little or nothing at all. They may have to pay for their parents funeral costs themselves and executor costs, out of their own pocket not out of the estate.
    Banks will have control and will force 'fire-sales' which will bring in the corrupt who will purchase the property for a song and sell it off for their huge profit gain.
    'London to a Brick', this will happen!
    Fobwatch
    16th May 2016
    11:34am
    "Scum", Koro? Not only scum, but traitors as well. I say throw them into solitary till the end of their days.
    Observer
    16th May 2016
    11:41am
    Wait a minute. This is the height of idiocy. Perhaps the respondees, and our own dear Sue, need some treatment for Alzheimers.

    There is no cut to the pension! And clean energy allowance applies to what, 10% of pensioners.

    Come on you bigots, wakey wakey, the real world has to cut the little stuff or the economy goes down the gurgler. A bit of responsibility, or screeching gimme gimme? And yes, Im still working at age 75 and will continue until I have to take the pension.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:19pm
    Bigots? Are these not the ones who IGNORE massive corruption and mismanagement from one side of politics but demand that the other side dots the i's and crosses the t's?
    Whilst I agree with fixing some of the issues which cripple our economy, including social security for those who make not working a lifelong pursuit, let's start with the obvious: collecting the correct amount of tax from the rich and multinationals, closing loopholes, making offshore tax havens illegal and voting out governments who waste public monies.
    Your talk about stopping the economy going down the gurgler is wonderful but it all starts with voting out liars and bastards. On that basis the current batch need to be sent packing rather than being built up by the mainstream media working to get their man back in.
    Sundays
    16th May 2016
    12:23pm
    Not sure where you got your information observer. All pensioners residing in Australia receive it. The government will now have two rates of pensions, one for existing and one for new. There is no sympathy in this post. Not everyone can work until 75
    Aussie
    16th May 2016
    12:47pm
    WOWOWOWOWO congratulations and thank you for your insults very nice from you that have your own property and rental income coming plus your salary from your work and big super wowowowowo.
    Thanks Mate you are a great Australian .... are you ????? maybe not maybe come in from another country ???? Who knows but people like you without looking at the reality of others should just SHUT UP AND LEARN THE REALITY OF OTHERS ..... Chi .... I Agree with MICK .....

    Now I know you will get offended for this comments and give me a nice one back of your kind of Assie comments .....Thanks in advance
    By the way I work until I was 70 .... paid tax to ...

    Oh Oh I forgot ...Do you sleep safe on your bed ???? Think about others mate .....no you are not a Mate

    C
    Adrianus
    16th May 2016
    1:01pm
    Observer, you are a rarity amongst posters. You are thinking of others not just yourself. I like that.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th May 2016
    5:15pm
    Observer, this government isn't doing anything to stop the nation going down the gurgler. It's taking from battlers to give to people who are less needy, and implementing stupid, irresponsible policies that discourage saving, discourage honesty, discourage responsible planning (punishing all those attributes harshly) and give fat rewards to people who pursue the irresponsible lifestyle that got us into this mess, while presenting huge incentives for younger folk to be irresponsible and manipulative. The policies are so grossly irresponsible and destructive that anyone with intelligence must be screaming for this corrupt mob to be ousted.

    When the government starts pursuing policies that are fair, intelligent, responsible, and designed for the common good, I'll agree with you that we should all sacrifice for the good of the nation. First, the government must stop tearing up the proceeds of our hard work and greedily transferring ill-gotten gain to wealthy leaners.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    8:12am
    Hey, Observer, did you read the post about how this ''responsible'' government is gifting $11 billion of our tax money to the IRS in the USA?

    How does that ''stop the nation going down the gurgler''?

    I do wish fool LNP supporters would educate themselves. I don't like Labor, but the ''thinking of others'' Frank says you are doing is pretty dumb, unless you are keen to give up your lifestyle to help the US government pay its multi-trillion dollar debt!
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    9:44am
    Rainey, you and MICK hate Labor. Yeah right!
    Why is it that you both hang on their every word?
    Why are you so negative about Australia's future?
    Let me explain the situation so that you have a better understanding. We have had some quite successful start ups choose USA because they were showing these Aussies a green light. While here in Oz we were threatening them with red and green tape. We hunted them away. I know of one person in particular I spoke with who got absolutely no help from the Australian Government, or the Opposition at the time, so he opened in the USA went public raising $2b in no time at all. If America insists that US companies who pay tax in Aus then top up to their level sooner or later these companies will cut loose given the downward pressure on cap returns. It's all about creating jobs here in Australia. The left are too short sighted to see beyond a Robin Hood approach.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:10am
    Frank, you are not reading my posts obviously - or rather, you are reading them with warped vision and even more warped mind, because you are so loyal to your precious LNP that you can't be objective.

    I don't need an LNP bigot to explain anything to me. I understand the situation perfectly. I have always supported moves to remove red and green tape. I dislike the way government stuff-ups hunts many businesses away. That said, I wish I had responded differently and not had the allegiance to stay, because a stupid bureaucracy did our business incredible harm and in the US it would likely have flown.

    Reducing company tax has some likely benefits IN PROSPEROUS TIMES - when we can afford the reduction and demand is sufficient to justify a cut to encourage further investment. At the moment, we can't afford it, and demand doesn't justify it. Any extra profits will go into the owner's pockets, to the US government, or in rorts (like payments to a low income relative as ''pretend'' wages so the relative can later buy the owner a boat with untaxed money!)

    It's not a case of IF America insists companies top up their level. They DO. And there are very limited options for those companies to cut loose.

    This is NOT a case of the left being too short sighted to see beyond a Robin Hood approach. It IS a Sheriff of Nottingham approach. It's taking money from the economy that is desperately needed for other, far more productive purposes.

    Frank, I'm not pro-Labor, despite your continual ill-informed ranting. And I don't ''hang on their every word''. I analyse policy carefully. And I'm negative about Australia's future because idiots are in control and grinding into the dust.

    Elsewhere, you accused me of only worrying about my ''welfare cheque to top up my $1 million''. You couldn't be more wrong with that nasty disrespectful comment, and it shows why this nation is in such a mess. Nasty bigots vote on emotion and assumption, without any attempt to examine facts. Someone once said that 2% of the population think, 3% think they think, and 95% don't even try to think. How true! This site attracts thinkers and people who think they think, and you are DEFINITELY NOT in the 2%. If you were, you would be analysing the ''Fairer and More Sustainable'' Pensions policy and seeing that it could hardly be more UNFAIR, and it is certainly not more sustainable.

    I have lobbied for reform - not that benefits individuals financially (and certainly not with any self-interest) - but that is FAIRER and MORE SUSTAINABLE. And it's opposed only by those self-interested egomaniacs here who can't see past their own egocentricity to recognize that there are better, fairer and lower cost ways of supporting our aged population.

    Like the company tax, the changed taper rate is unaffordable at present, because it makes the pension substantially more appealing than investment returns. It cancels out the benefit of saving and makes it more beneficial to be irresponsible and rely on the taxpayer in old age. That's plain IDIOTIC in any language. There are ways to save much more without being illogical and stupid; without being cruel to those this system persecutes unfairly; and without discouraging the behaviour this nation needs to reduce the future cost of supporting our aging population. And my goal has always been to pursue those more sensible and productive ways. Of course Frank might be personally hurt by such changes, so naturally he supports changes that hurt others - not him. As Bonny does.

    Well, Frank and Bonny, please show me the basic respect of not lumping me in with your selfish class, and not accusing me without foundation.

    I am NOT a millionaire. I MIGHT (depending on the outcome of certain current happenings) never need a pension. I am currently working. I am PROBABLY not going to be affected personally by the taper rate change - not that it's any of your damned business what my personal situation is.

    I am lobbying strongly - and will continue to - for abandonment of a THOROUGHLY STUPID AND DESTRUCTIVE POLICY that anyone who can do basic math can see is IDIOTIC IN THE EXTREME given current investment returns, and that discriminates very harshly against the DISADVANTAGED AND STRUGGLING while strongly favouring the well-off. I am lobbying for a policy that saves more money for the government by treating the aged with respect and being fair and equitable, and preserves incentives to save and be self-reliant.

    The current policy resulted from a thought bubble by a stupid Greenie who is incable of thinking past ''it was changed before and we disagreed, so let's change it back''. It seems those who voted for it were too brainless to figure that investment returns were very different back then and a return now doesn't work mathematically. I have some vague hope - vague given the incompetence of the ruling class and the arrogance and egocentric attitudes of the haves in this society - of demonstrating to the government the serious flaws in their policy and the sensible approach to reform that benefits the nation.
    MICK
    20th May 2016
    5:05pm
    Frank you rusted on Liberal ex MP. The thing I dislike about your LNP boss is that this side of politics is dirty and are unabated liars of the worst kind.
    As I routinely say to you 'debate the FACTS', something that you cannot do because you do not have a leg to stand on. All you and your other avatars can do is sling mud and bring up old old slurs. The facts are against you! As you well know.
    Alan
    16th May 2016
    12:08pm
    I guess the answer is quite simple. No need to complain, just vote them out.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:20pm
    Correct!
    Aussie
    16th May 2016
    12:48pm
    Correct ..... I will not vote for them
    Howard
    16th May 2016
    12:09pm
    As far as I am aware single home owners & couple home owners who are on a part pension will get the amount of pension reduced by 50%. ie from $3 per 10,000 to $1.50 per $10,000. That's between the lower level when you come off full pension to top level where you are on your own. It's on the internet if you can find it,so look it up & then complain to the pollies and /or anyone who can vote & has an interest in age pensioners.
    Sundays
    16th May 2016
    12:19pm
    The clean energy supplement is paid to all pensioners residing in Australia and is not indexed. It is a small amount but why should new pensioners receive less than existing pensioners. For single pensioners that $14 makes a big difference. It is just wrong and surely not that big a saving
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:18am
    Because the LNP is determined to reduce the pension and this is a sneaky way of starting the process. They proved it's hard to get reductions through because the idea is so unpopular, so, as with axing Medicare, they have to do it by back door methods. The cruel and seriously unfair and uneconomic taper rate change was the start. The energy supplement change is the second step. The third will be far more draconian and will come soon after the July 2 election - if they win.
    Adrianus
    16th May 2016
    12:33pm
    The clean energy supplement is no longer required because we don't have a carbon tax. However, if Labor get back in we will have a carbon tax and quite possibly the clean energy supplement. Labor expect with their increased carbon tax it should push up electricity bills by $150 next year. But what about the costs of everything else? I'm worried that it will push up the cost of living.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:46pm
    A message from Frank's employer.

    I remember hearing the same lies from pipsqueak Hunt before and after the last election. When the Carbon Tax was repealed electricity prices kept going UP and UP. Now the same lies are being rolled out again by the same coalition con men and their trolls.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    1:08pm
    There's the troll word again MICK, give it a rest dear boy. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Have you been out in the fresh air lately?
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    1:40pm
    Just back from Beijing ... "EEH, COUGH COUGH COUGH !!!" :-(
    Adrianus
    16th May 2016
    2:12pm
    MICK, so what are you trying to say? I have trouble reading your posts lately. Do you believe that a carbon tax will not push up prices on goods and services? Is that what you're trying to say?
    roy
    16th May 2016
    2:33pm
    No answer from MICK on that one Frank, he hasn't gone off skiing again has he?
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:34pm
    Frank and stan. Different faces of the same coin.
    For the record the Carbon Tax NEVER pushed up electricity prices. Ever. And by the same token they never went down when the tax was repealed.
    Your posts are the normal lies from your employer.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th May 2016
    5:21pm
    Frank we no longer have a carbon tax, but we still have the inflated prices. There was NOT ONE CENT of saving when the carbon tax was removed. NOT ONE CENT. Probably because it wasn't the carbon tax that pushed up prices in the first place! But the supplement is still desperately needed, because prices continue to soar.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    5:39pm
    Spot on Rainey. The cost of replacing poles and wires and the industry suffering greed overload was the real reason for electricity prices going up. The Carbon Tax had little to do with it as evidenced by the fact that when the tax went electricity prices KEPT RISING.
    Frank the liberal party crank never addresses that one as he is posting government spin on this website. Not debating the facts.
    Adrianus
    16th May 2016
    6:31pm
    Therein lies our problem as a nation. There are Labor voters who believe anything they're told by the Unions.
    "An increase in taxes will not push up prices."???
    ho ho ho LOL You people are hilarious.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    9:00pm
    That's funny !! I thought an Increase in Taxes gave You less to spend on those Items Frank ! Id better have another look at the way that works ?? :-(
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    8:48am
    parti you are talking about income tax while we are discussing the merits (or otherwise) of corporate tax and in particular the carbon tax. The mining tax and the carbon tax were not taxes on profit they were taxes on revenue, designed to shut down those businesses affected. The problem is that on their way down the drain they will try to survive by increasing prices. Therefore the imposts inflicted by government will be passed onto people like you and me. The question of how long it would take to kill off those industries will become more urgent as householders struggle.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    9:56am
    Rainey,
    This article excerpt copied from the ABC, so it must be right.

    7th Sep. 2015. Breaking News!
    "Power prices will double in Queensland over the next five years unless the State Government stops using the revenue from ever-increasing electricity bills to secretly prop up its budget, according to the Alliance of Electricity Consumers.

    The Alliance's economist Jonathan Pavetto said the State Government was benefitting from the rising cost of electricity to the tune of billions of dollars a year."
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    10:20am
    Frank the liberal party crank!
    Have a look at the 'free press'. At present it is flooded with coalition feel good propaganda. And you think that Labor poisons people's minds. The truth is that the media is pushing their man and is trying to condition voters to vote for it's man. You know that.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    10:36am
    MICK, I don't think I want to read your posts anymore. They hold nothing of value for me and are simple insults from a simple mind. Communicate with me when you grow up?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:43am
    Pot calling kettle black, Frank. You trade on assumption, insult, unfair denigration, and propaganda. You are an LNP bigot, and like all LNP bigots, you can't see past the nose in the trough.
    It think it's you who needs to grow up.
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    8:39am
    LOL is that all you've got? I have copped much worse offensive abuse . I don't have to read your posts either Rainey until you grow up? Your choice? But aren't you pleased that you still have the freedom to say what's on your mind? Go down the Socialist/Communism road and you lose that Rainey. We saw a little of that with the Gillard Government but fair minded people will reject that type of big brother behavioural modification. We still have our individuality and freedom to express our feelings but the abuse you dish up to others who have a differing opinion is saying more about you than it says about others. Why cant Bonny have an opinion without being called names? Sometimes I think of Bonny as that person in Tianamen Square and you and MICK are the tanks of injustice.
    You may not share Ayn Rand's view on socialism being akin to communisim but surely you can empathise with her Howard Roark?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    9:12am
    Frank, the responses to Bonny are entirely deserved, because she doesn't engage in intelligent debate, she just viciously and cruelly progresses her own self-interest and wishes hurt on others. Everything she writes is ''I'm okay, and I'm glad others are hurting''. It's a sick and disgusting mentality. She is entitled to her views, if she had any. She can't think far enough past ME ME ME to have any 'views' on anything, it seems.
    MICK
    20th May 2016
    5:07pm
    Abuse and mudslinging lies are in your DNA Frank. If you get stick then look at your posts. But then you have been put up to it so what else is there to say.
    Six weeks to go before there is a change in government. Then goodbye tax cuts for the rich.
    KSS
    16th May 2016
    12:39pm
    Funny how people have conveniently forgotten that the Clean Energy supplement was brought in to compensate for the carbon tax increases. Given the carbon tax was abolished there is no need for the compensation for it to continue. So NO! The pension is not being reduced. The compensatory payment is being stopped - and only for new pension applicants.

    Make a case for an increase in the pension rate if you like, but please do not confuse that with the removal of an extra payment that no longer has any validity.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    12:50pm
    And so were the changes made to the tax scale, especially with the tax free threshhold moving from $5000 to $18000.
    This is what is so galling about the repeal of the Carbon Tax. Repealed for the interests of the (coalition) election funding coal industry. The bastards should have reversed the threshhold. That would have seen the end of them at the upcoming election.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    1:04pm
    MICK the left wing troll is pontificating again,
    troll on dear boy Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    1:11pm
    The best form of acknowledgement is by being imitated dear boy. Thanks for that. It brings a smile to my dial!
    KSS
    16th May 2016
    1:27pm
    Mick you really do need to try to keep up. Those earning over $180,000 have NOT had a tax threshold move at all. They will still be paying the 45% they always have in recent years. The extra levy of 2% imposed on them (moving their tax liability to $47% (49% if you include the additional medicare levy)) as an emergency contribution to help pay the debt Australia has, is being removed. It was always a temporary measure and always scheduled for removal. Get over it!

    Your type of misinformation is exactly what spreads fear among others.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    1:28pm
    You are so right dear boy, it's because I admire you deeply and just wish that I had been born with brains like you, you really should be our PM and Australia would be flowing with milk and honey dear boy.
    MICK the troll for PM, yeah.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:37pm
    Let's not play your normal games KSS. We both know that those earning near $180,000 pa register companies. So THEY ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE COMPANY TAX CUTS announced in the budget: AND PAY 25%.
    You know that!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    10:02am
    I don't think it's relevant whether or not you call ending the special levy a ''tax cut'', KSS. What is relevant is that the emergency is far greater and the battlers are being asked to sacrifice because of it, yet the well to do are not asked to continue giving. That's the LNP way, of course. Take from the lifters to give to the wealthy leaners. But it's wrong. And nothing you say can make it right. They are getting a tax cut - at high cost to people whose needs are far, far greater.
    jackie
    16th May 2016
    12:58pm
    Double dipping Liberals needed to make the pension cutback to keep up with welfare for corporations and the rich. Ordinary Australians are a gullible lot if they think suave Malcolm may persuade things to be different. He is laughing all the way to his offshore tax haven as he accumulates a massive pension for nothing while ordinary pensioners can suffer.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    1:13pm
    It's not rocket science jackie. Give one side a massive tax cut and the other has to pay for it. Despite utterings to the contrary the money has to come from somewhere.....and the lies from Morrison about growing the economy defy the logic of a worldwide depression setting in.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    2:26pm
    MICK. As you are so knowledgeable, please tell all of us why you are not an MP. With your depth of all things good for this country, pensions,medicare, immigration, the strength of the dollar etc etc etc you really ought to be an MP. Why don't you become one, if I lived in your constituency you would get my vote?
    Please tell us all why you are not an MP and please don't beat around the bush, tell us as it is dear boy.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    5:01pm
    Get off the drugs Frank/stan.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    8:06pm
    C'mon MICK, what sort of retort is that? With a brain like yours, sheesh.
    pepi49
    16th May 2016
    1:02pm
    We have a golden opportunity this coming election to do some thing. New political party. Called. Mature Australian Party, check there Web site its what seniors have been looking for and it sounds very promising. or check out on Facebook. Pepi49
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    1:21pm
    Had a look. Does not appear to be a front for Liberal Party.
    If voting for the above I strongly suggest you ask for WHO Brian is being preferenced so that your vote does not funnel to the current bad lot.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    1:26pm
    MICK. Absolutely right dear boy.
    Watchful
    16th May 2016
    1:08pm
    What is it that we Australians don't understand. The Liberals / Nationals have always been against any advancement of working people. Just look at history, they voted against the 5 day week, overtime, superannuation and medicare. It just boggles the mind that working people vote for parties that have a history of doing all they can to stop any advance in social policy
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    1:24pm
    And the NBN.
    Thanks for the observation Watchful. We need posters to put the coalition into context.
    Sadly we still have posters who believe that a coalition government will be good for the nation rather than seeing it as the leech for the rich which it is trying to initiate full scale class warfare against 99% of the nation's inhabitants. Such is the power of media propaganda campaigns.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    1:56pm
    MICK you are so right as ever dear boy, MICK for PM yeah.
    KSS
    16th May 2016
    3:39pm
    Stan, part of Mick's chip on his shoulder is that in the past he did actually stand for election but wasn't elected. Funny that! I can't think why.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    3:55pm
    KSS, I find that very hard to believe, surely MICK would get elected with a 100% majority, why is this country missing out? It just don't make sense to me and we used to be called the Lucky Country.
    C'mon MICK get elected dear boy.
    No KSS. I can't think why either!
    MICK, I'm awaiting your answer with bated breath.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:38pm
    Trolls playing tag team? Amusing.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    5:41pm
    MICK.There's the troll word again, so predictable and boring, Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
    Perhaps you won't make a good PM after all but I'm prepared to give you a crack at it dear boy. Please stand, tell me where you are and I'll tell all my many friends that I have from my sport all over Australia to canvass for you. How does that grab you dear boy?

    By the way, that is really no answer to a very sincere comment of mine dear boy, please answer as to why you are not standing for election or won't your wife let you, she hardly sees you now dear boy.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    10:23am
    Stan/Frank: you do not have any good comments. Only BS, smear and propaganda dear boy.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    10:23am
    Stan/Frank: you do not have any good comments. Only BS, smear and propaganda dear boy.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    1:21pm
    Of Coarse it is !! :-( I cant see one Skerrick of difference to my Pension in a Year now ?? :-( :-(
    Aussie
    16th May 2016
    1:30pm
    TO ALL OF YOU ...... This is better than anything ..listen to this words and think about everybody around you.....HELP AND CONSIDER AND RESPECT ....

    https://youtu.be/MGcFsXmisQQ?list=RD4tGeGEdIVUw

    LOVE ....From C
    iamnotold
    16th May 2016
    1:58pm
    Seems quite a few here didn't bother to read past the "pension cut" part of the article. Anyone currently on a pension is not affected, only applies to new pensions after 1st July, 2017.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    2:02pm
    Yes I think we all know that !! And if it wasn't for that $14 which has already been dragged in my Mingy Pay rises I would have to get a Credit Card :-(
    Sundays
    16th May 2016
    5:01pm
    Yes, but why should the new pensioners receive less??
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th May 2016
    5:18pm
    It's called ''phasing it in''' Sundays. Watch for the next announcement.
    beyond caring
    16th May 2016
    5:39pm
    don't worry about July 17 be more worried about Jan 17 with the real cuts occurring .
    Precious 1
    16th May 2016
    1:59pm
    Its only for those applyong to receive after July 2017 next year not ours....see ur local mp for details...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    9:08am
    Yep, and it's STEP 2 in a process to gradually reduce aged pensions. If you think otherwise, you are a blind fool.
    gerryhatrick
    16th May 2016
    2:08pm
    They have not reduced the pension in money but in other sneaky ways holding the Medicare rebate steady for another 4 years means most of us will end up having to pay that $7 doctor visit they took of the table a while ago as that means doctors have effectively been slammed with an 8 year wage freeze and that has to end up hurting also the dental service that was available to very low incomes gone and yet although they say the states will take it over the states have said nothing about it and as non of the states like to spend their money either on low income earners who are not in a position to give much back I doubt we will get dental help ant time soon .So yes get rid of all 3 major parties we really cannot get worse government from a crowd of people all with good intentions than we already have had for the last 10 years with these greedy ignorant bunch of morons who will have us all dead or dying because we need to much in our old age or disabilities
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    2:11pm
    :-) :-)
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:42pm
    That's what electing Independents is all about. If we had a parliament full of them then the system would work. Try telling that to brain dead voters who are conned by slick advertising/propaganda campaigns.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    8:25am
    The pension cuts are coming, gerryhatrick. This is just a sneaky way of phasing in cuts'.
    Bizylizy
    16th May 2016
    2:26pm
    G'day, I have noticed that there are more Political Parties that are showing up in the ranks now, and I will be checking out just what a couple or three have within their agenda to build up our Economy and the Job sector, as well as Look Out for every person fairly, be they Child or a Pensioner, Worker or Carer, no class involvement required. The CEC (Citizens Electoral Council) has some really positive ideas, and a new one Australian Liberty Alliance (ALA) is going great guns and will be a force to contend with very soon I am very certain. So don't just think we have to vote for the two or three in your face Political Parties folks, Google all of the others and see what another Party can do any better because they sure can't do any worse. People Power works everywhere else, why not here in Australia. Embrace it. We need it now especially a Party that will see that every person receives a living wage entitlement as part of the Countries Wealth Good reading: " The Universal Economy" to end all Poverty and to make money and wealth serve ALL humanity.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    2:31pm
    We have to get that fount of all knowledge MICK as an MP, he really does seem to have a terrific brain, he is so perceptive and has a memory like nobody that I have ever met, please please MICK stand for parliament, we so badly need people like you.
    What do think Bizylizy, but what party would he represent, I think he could make waves in Canberra, what do other people on this site think, and no trolls please or bigots.
    Feel free to comment MICK dear boy.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    2:39pm
    Are you sure your not a Member of the UN ? Shovelling it away like there's no tomorrow ! :-) :-)
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:44pm
    Sounds a lot like it doesn't it particolor.
    I perceive desperation from a government unable to control this website. It must be frustrating. Maybe try to sell off the ABC again.
    Aussiefrog
    16th May 2016
    3:10pm
    For pensioners sake, DO NOT VOTE for liberals our labors! Vote for small parties or independents to keep the bastard (lib/lab) honest!
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    4:10pm
    The Serfs are being Hacked to Pieces by Stealth !! :-( :-(
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:45pm
    That is the way forward. And not with a Liberal preference.
    That is what both sides lie in bed at night fearing.
    beyond caring
    16th May 2016
    3:27pm
    guys the damage has been done in the last Budget with from Jan 2017 over 1/2 existing pensions will be reduced and others with receive no pension income. While some will pick up a bit more many of us will have a substantial drop in pensions. so if you have 0ver 450k in total income look out for a big drop in pension ... as for the voting never again would IO vote for either major party.
    beyond caring
    16th May 2016
    3:30pm
    sorry that should read $450k in total assets.
    Appathetic
    16th May 2016
    4:10pm
    beyond caring - don't forget the deeming rate thresholds are also being lowered so the vast majority of age pensioners will loose out, even those under the $450k.
    beyond caring
    16th May 2016
    4:16pm
    why are pensioners and pensioner's group jumping up an down about what going to happening ... don't they understand the drop most are going to get in pensions come Jan17. Can't be stopped now, but at least like the Libs know .. not getting their vote .. I've told my local member never again.. hope they go down big time.
    Rodent
    16th May 2016
    5:17pm
    Dear Beyond Caring, and others. I and many others have written on this forum many times about the utter stupidity and inequities and unfairness of the Proposed Pension changes due 1 Jan 2017

    In relation to your $450k Asset figure this is what will apply

    A Single Home Owner will LOSE $6064 in annual pension, at the same asset figure Single and Couple Home owners Annual pension will not change, and a Couple Non Home Owners Annual Pension will not change.

    HOWEVER it become crazy as you have higher Asset Figures
    Eg at $550k a Single Home owner loses $9280 in annual Pension, a Single Non Home Owner only loses $175 in Annual Pension. At the same $550k figure a Couple Home Owner loses $3568 in Annual Pension. A Couple Non Home Owners Pension does NOT change.

    At $650k in Assets a Single Home Owner receives NIL pension, and a Single Non Homeowner Loses $4075 in Annual Pension. A Couple Non Homeowner Loses $7468 in Annual Pension and beyond belief a Couple Non Homeowner gets a small Increase in Annual Pension of $2321

    At $750k in Assets both the Single Home Owner, and Non Homeowner receive NIL Pension, The Couple Home Owner loses $11368 in Annual Pension , and more beyond beief at the SAME $750K Asset figure the Couple Non Home Owner loses ONLY $1579 in Annual Pension

    I have all this information in $25k Asset Figures in a large Spreadsheet, but cannot post that here, so aplogies for format. If anything is unclear just ask
    beyond caring
    16th May 2016
    5:28pm
    Guys want to see something really scary... you can see how your pension will look come Jan17 by going onto the Govt " My pension " site ..and running through the calculator it gives you what you currently entitled too .. and then shows you after Jan 2017.. be ready to be alarmed
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    8:15am
    Beyond caring, I've been highlighting this for some time, and it's surprising how many haven't realized just what is happening. On the other hand, some self-serving people here (who aren't affected by it) actually support the idea, and refuse to look at the serious flaws in the policy.

    It was described as FAIR AND SUSTAINABLE. Well, let's analyse the LNP's warped idea of fair, shall we:

    1. It says someone aged 95 who has a $2.5 million home and $250,000 in the bank is ''needier'' than some aged 65 who has a $200,000 home and $600,000 to last them maybe another 30 years in retirement.

    2. It says a married pensioner who is healthy, who can continue to work and earn $50,000 a year, and owns a $2 million dollar home, and has $300,000 in the bank is ''NEEDIER'' than a 65-year old carer married to a cripple who needs home maintenance help and help to lift the partner, needs disability aids, and requires a lot of expensive medicines and specialist care.

    3. It says someone who unfortunately locked up their assets a few years back in a poorly-returning and unsalable investment with a nominal (not real) value of $850,000, but is earning only $15,000 a year and can't unlock assets is NOT AS NEEDY as the above healthy married pensioner earning $50,000 a year and living in a $2 million home.

    4. It says someone who gifted $2 million to their kids before turning 60, with an agreement their kids would pay all their bills for the rest of their lives, and then bought a $2.5 million home to reduce their assessable assets to $300,000 is ''needier'' than the poor carer with a disabled partner mentioned above.

    5. It says those fortunate enough to be well educated and able to identify and access high-returning, low risk investments are no less needy than those who, due to very poor education and opportunity, can only achieve 3% or less return on their meagre savings.

    6. It says someone who can rent for $200 a week and has $600,000 in assets (that they choose NOT to use to buy a home) should many thousands of dollars a year better off than someone who owns a $250,000 home and has $300,000 in assets.

    These are just a few examples of the GROSS UNFAIRNESS of the policy.

    Now let's look at the SUSTAINABILITY.

    Young retirees are expected to drain their savings and then apply for a pension. Of course, in future years the pension will be much higher, and aged care much more expensive, and people who saved to try to be independent of the taxpayer, and NEARLY made it, will be ground down to full or near full pensioner status and collecting far more than the total they would have collected if given a small part pension to enable them to preserve their savings for later.

    Retirees hit by the cruel change have a strong incentive to spend up big and get a pension, since their returns on investment may be as low as 2.5% (average 5% according to government), but the pension gives them a return on MONEY SPENT of 7.8%, rising every six months.

    Younger folk have a strong incentive NOT to save, or to hide their wealth, because those who exceed the low thresholds are forced to use up their savings and abandon all their retirement plans while those who don't save are looked after.

    Retirees who are struggling as a result of the change might sink a lot of money into a more expensive home (further distorting the housing market) or separate from a partner, or go for high risk investments, knowing that if they lose their money they will still get a generous 7.8% return, indexed.

    Ultimately, the policy can do nothing BUT push pension costs up.

    Therefore, there are two possibilities:

    1. The LNP is stupid and can't see past the long noses they have buried in the trough, OR

    2. The LNP has a long-range strategy to slash pensions dramatically, or abolish them, and grind the aged into the kind of poverty the poor endure in Greece, so that, as in Greece, the rich can party harder.

    Yes, beyondcaring, it's REALLY REALLY SCARY. And what's scarier is that some arrogant egocentrics on here actually endorse these disgustingly unfair and unsustainable policies. What is their motive? Are the privileged just SO selfish and self-serving that they actually delight in seeing others suffer? Do they WANT a return to a feudal society? (I think so in many cases! They want to go back to every rich family having 7 servants grovelling for bread!)
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    8:24am
    BTW. I can understand why those with limited means would swallow the LNP's blatant lies with their slick slogan ''millionaires shouldn't get pensions'', but I suggest all you pensioners who are not suffering due to this stupid taper rate change wake up and realize what is coming.

    It's going to drive aged pension costs UP. That's a given, because it punishes saving and responsible planning and rewards dishonesty and manipulation. It's going to ensure that if investment returns recover some years down the track, pension costs are unnecessarily high because those who saved have been forced to use up their savings. Many who might have become independent will have no hope of it.

    If it drives pension costs UP, then logically it will increase pressure to LOWER ALL PENSIONS. Guess what? You full or nearly full pensioners who weren't affected by the taper rate change, and therefore selfishly endorsed it, WILL SUFFER MOST.

    Every decent Australian should be protesting this change and demanding reversal NOW.

    It's NOT about giving pensions to people who don't need them. It's about structuring a SENSIBLE, SUSTAINABLE, FAIR system to adequately support those in genuine need at the lowest feasible cost to the nation.
    maggie01
    16th May 2016
    4:08pm
    There is only one way to beat them, VOTE the Liberal/Coalition OUT!!!
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    4:38pm
    If they thought this Country WAS in such good shape because of their Big Business Buddy's they are horribly mistaken ! I t was us Serfs that got it that way by doing and Honest Days Work for and Honest Days Pay with the help of Unions. Paying our Taxes without a Tax Dodger Lawyer ! And general getting along with each other :-) Things have Changed since Mr Greedy took over ! :-(
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    4:47pm
    Correct particolor. And remember that every billion dollars which goes to the top end has to come from somewhere: working Australians getting tax increases!
    roy
    16th May 2016
    5:48pm
    particolor, what did you think when you heard of a certain Union official using his union credit card for visits to hookers which came from the money you earned for an honest days work from the sweat of your brow?
    I would love to get a comment from you.
    Unions, don't you just love them, if we had MICK as PM it would all be so different.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    8:43pm
    I thought more of the Lib Minister Bending the Secretary over His Work Desk and departing for the Promised Land soon after !! :-)
    I'm still wondering if He used his Gold Card ? There seems to be a Discrepancy in the Treasury ? :-( So much to do in this Country and so much to HIDE !!
    roy
    16th May 2016
    8:54pm
    Typical ALP, no wonder the union officials take you for a ride, serves you right. You would rather come back and have a pop at an LNP than answer the question about your union subscription money being used for hookers, sheesh.
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    10:25am
    stan it's no use. Those who follow the Kardinians, the bachelor/bachelorette thrive on the Labor Soap Opera. They really dig it. Labor realise this and play for it by exposing their vulnerabilities. They don't care about good policy because it is too complex to digest. It makes little difference that the pension has increased by far under the LNP, because the entertainment Kardinian style doesn't come with it. They want more deaths at sea, more rooftop riots, more violent religious street protests, more singing about Whyalla job losses, more hookers on the tick, more whistle blowers being offered safe MP seats.
    For me I'm too old to find that stuff funny.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    10:42am
    stan and Frank......same poster. Tag team. Nothing to say other than the normal malicious anti Labor stuff.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:20pm
    Another word to add to MICK's favourites "tag team" how very childish of you MICK dear boy.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:23pm
    Thank God we never see any malicious anti LNP postings from you MICK dear boy,how hypocritical are you?
    Pot Kettle Black spring to mind dear boy.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:21am
    Oh Frank, how illiterate and unconscious you are! ''They don't care about good policy because it's too complex to digest''.

    NO MATE. WE CARE about good policy. They just despair of ever seeing any from the hideously inept and self-interested corrupt mongrels who are currently STUFFING THE NATION with their greed and arrogance.

    When we see GOOD POLICY, we'll support it, no matter who it comes from. But I'm rapidly losing hope of ever seeing ANYTHING other than idiotic and self-serving back-room deals and vote buying.
    MICK
    20th May 2016
    5:10pm
    Frank/stan: Never shoot the messenger. Argue the facts. I hope that I do that 90% of the time. The rest of the time is dealing with the trolls who are posting ant Labor slurs and lies for their employer. I'll take that as a comment!
    Radish
    16th May 2016
    4:10pm
    Only NEW applicants will be affected.

    It will NOT happen to those currently receiving it. i.e. all on here reading this who are in receipt of a pension.
    Appathetic
    16th May 2016
    4:13pm
    or those on here whose "situation changes".
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    7:41am
    Which means that those border-line part-pensioners who will lose their pensions on Jan. 2017 but no doubt get them back very soon after as their savings fall and thresholds (hopefully) increase with inflation, lost this benefit.

    This government is determined to grind lower middle-class pensioners who worked hard and saved into the same level of hardship as those who currently have nothing. It's an absolute disgrace, and as much as I dislike many of Labor's policies, we can't afford the luxury of allowing the LNP to remain in power.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    8:28am
    Rainey, give me one reason, just one! Why the government should borrow money to give to retirees who have a house and $1m in assets? If you can come up with one reason I'm willing to listen. I mean other than welfare should be used as an incentive for people to save.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:49am
    Once again, Frank, you show your ignorance. The policy I refer to has NOTHING TO DO WITH PEOPLE HAVING $1 MILLION IN ASSETS.

    Can you not read? It impacts on people with LESS THAN $400,000, and the ''home'' might be a $100,000 shack in the middle of nowhere. And depending how long they are likely to live, some of them may end up very poor because of this STUPID policy that favours the PRIVILEGED and bashed strugglers who suffer ill-health, poor financial literacy (due to poor education and opportunity) and those who locked up assets (following plans based on government promises and not realizing what LIARS the LNP are!!) or who, due to economic downturns, find themselves stuck with unsalable, low-returning assets.

    And anyone who thinks welfare should be structured to STOP PEOPLE SAVING AND STRIVING is a moron, Frank. Sorry. I don't usually resort to insults. But I am really fed up with the self-serving, arrogant idiots who keep putting forward dumb, illogical BS instead of objectively considering FACTS and acknowledging the serious flaws in policies that are destroying a great nation.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:53am
    BTW. Frank. Obviously you are too arrogant and blind to notice that the removal of the clean energy supplement had NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO with the taper rate change and AFFECTS ALL NEW PENSIONERS.

    Wherever did you get the whacky idea that the government was avoiding borrowing to pay to people with a home and $1 million in assets. That was NOT in the policy at all.

    Since you are clearly a simpleton:

    It removes the supplement from ALL NEW PENSIONS - no matter how rich or poor the recipient and no matter whether they own a home or not. All EXISTING pensioners will continue to get it - EVEN THOSE MANY WITH $1.5 MILLION + HOMES, kids they've gifted millions to, and few hundred grand in shares returning nicely, and a part time job!
    Old Man
    16th May 2016
    5:02pm
    Am I missing something here? The Clean Energy Supplement was given to pensioners to cover the added costs associated with the carbon tax put on by Gillard and the Greens. The carbon tax was repealed by the Coalition but they allowed the Supplement to continue. What is the Supplement covering for if given to pensioners from 2017 onwards? Existing pensioners aren't losing anything regardless of what is written here.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    16th May 2016
    5:16pm
    But there was no cost saving from repealing the tax, Old Man. The costs continue, so the supplement needs to continue - for ALL pensioners.
    Old Man
    16th May 2016
    5:33pm
    There was no cost saving for government Rainey but there are cost savings estimated at $700pa for all Australians on average. This figure is supplied by Treasury documents, not politicians and means that I am receiving a bonus because the carbon tax under a government that Gillard will not lead has gone and has taken with it the costs paid by electricity suppliers. This cost was recouped by electricity suppliers from any who used electricity, me, you and businesses we purchased from.
    MICK
    16th May 2016
    5:43pm
    Sounds pretty fair to me Old Man. I mean the cost of electricity never reverted to pre Carbon Tax levels either. You need to not cherry pick.
    As I have often said: the Carbon Tax was repealed for the Liberal Party election funding mates in the coal industry. Jobs were always tied to the price which coal was sold for, not the Carbon Tax. That is why a heap of mines closed even after the tax was gone.
    Old Man
    16th May 2016
    5:49pm
    No MICK, the cost of electricity didn't revert to pre-carbon tax levels because the tax was on for three+ years and the CPI rose in those three+ years. The price of electricity di, however, reduce significantly.
    Who buys most Australian coal? It's not Australia and the price is a world price out of the control of Australian producers. Yes, coal mines lay off people when the price drops below the cost of producing it because coal companies are in the business of making money. They are not philanthropists. The port of Newcastle is the biggest coal exporting port in the world.
    roy
    16th May 2016
    5:50pm
    MICK, so the mines closing was nothing to do with the Chinese not wanting so much coal and other countries providing coal more cheaply than Australia?
    Perhaps you can do some research and enlighten us dear boy.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    9:02pm
    I hate you Mice's to pieces !! :-)
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    10:45am
    Turnbull is the leader and my dislike of the government has nothing to do with the leader. It;s about what you Frank/stan avoid at all costs: THE ISSUES!
    There is no hiding from the direction of the current government, its attacks on average Australians and the poor and its blatant attempts to redistribute money from those who have little to those who already have more than they know what to do with.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th May 2016
    5:51pm
    Old Man, you are full of it! There was no $700 cost saving for anyone by removing the carbon tax. There WAS NOT SAVING AT ALL. Cost skyrocketed. Abbott couldn't lie straight in bed, and he certainly lied about savings. But it was yet another pathetic excuse for this vile LNP to take a bit more from battlers, making false claims to justify their cruelty.
    Rodent
    16th May 2016
    6:04pm
    ALL, especially Beyong caring

    This is PART of what I posted earlier today at 5.17pm, It has a error

    At $650k in Assets a Single Home Owner receives NIL pension, and a Single Non Homeowner Loses $4075 in Annual Pension. A Couple Non Homeowner Loses $7468 in Annual Pension and beyond belief a Couple Non Homeowner gets a small Increase in Annual Pension of $2321

    Where it says Couple Non Homeowner Loses $7468 that should have read Couple HOME OWNER - Apologies
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    8:48pm
    I'm glad I didn't do a New Budget on your earlier Observation ! :-)
    Trevine
    16th May 2016
    6:21pm
    As for me I'm voting the bastards out. For sure if they come in the little we have they will try taking it away. All they want is to take from the poor and their pockets.
    kevinc
    16th May 2016
    6:31pm
    Please advise, is this cut to the clean energy supplement july 2017 a conservative policy
    or, has it been proposed by the labour party. ? I can,t believe that the Liberals are again proposing something that lowers pensioners living standards. ?
    If its true, Malcolm is on a hiding to nothing, talk about how to lose an election, I'm now looking for an honest independent, or check out the Australian Liberty alliance for the senate.
    Watchful
    16th May 2016
    7:20pm
    As I said in an earlier post The Conservatives have voted against every improvement to working peoples lives i.e. 40 hour week, medicare, super etc. Now the greens have joined in with them to eliminate or reduce part pensions from the 1st January 2017 of approximately
    300,000 aged Australians . So before everyone rushes to vote for a party like the greens have a good look at what they are doing to people that have strived hard all their lives.
    KSS
    16th May 2016
    8:39pm
    kevinc, if you currently get the Clean Energy supplement, you will continue to get it even though the carbon tax it was meant to cover has already been repealed. Only people making a new application for a pension will not receive this redundant payment.
    particolor
    16th May 2016
    8:56pm
    I'm 70 but I'm seriously thinking of a Shady top up job now for the Old Age Pension !! :-(
    Appathetic
    16th May 2016
    9:14pm
    KSS - as I have said above. You may continue to receive the Clean Energy supplement until your "situation changes" - similar to the conditions for 'transitional rates'. For example, in Jan 2017 the overseas travel 'allowance' may be reduced from 26 to 6 weeks. Then, if they use the same rules as the past, it is possible that if you spend more than that period overseas then your pension may be 're-calculated' and you may then loose that Clean Energy supplement. As with transitional rates the objective is therefore to gradual reduce those on 'grand-fathered' payments.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    10:49am
    Good one kevinc. You will notice our resident trolls are doing their malicious best to divert opinion. Your choice is a sound one as the only way to restore real government is to kill off the vested interests by getting rid of their puppet politicians. Well done.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:15pm
    And the troll word yet again from MICK, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Not Senile Yet!
    16th May 2016
    10:57pm
    No one on line here is getting just what the double dissolution is all about!!
    It is about the Senate not Passing Legislation that has been loaded up with fine print that removes your legal rights or removes your entitlements embedded in prior legislation!
    The Senators are NOT BLOCKING ANYTHING!!!
    They cannot change Legislation.....they cannot suggest ways to change legislation!!
    They can only refuse to pass it....then it goes back to the Lower House to be re-negotiated or altered to a more passable format!!!
    The LNP Party have refused to change any of their proposed Legislation....and have therefore continually presented the same rigged piece that was refused!!!
    They are conning the Public in Blaming the Senate and the Independants!!!
    They have now changed the preference system distributions by changing the presentation of the Election Papers to a style that requires ...either a party selection (on Top).....or a complete numbering of every person from beginning to last!!
    This being in hope that everyone will just select a Party and NOT bother completing the Bottom half!
    Regardless of Party.....control of BOTH Houses... Lower House & the Senate....basically enables whoever wins to have a majority...which in turn translates to a Dictatorship to Legislate whatever they want!!!
    When Howard got that...LNP...Straightaway he introduced Work Choices....and we all know how fair that was!!!
    The Senate should never be a Rubber Stamp!
    If nothing else.....NEVER GIVE and Elected Party Control of the Senate!!!
    Stick as many Independants in there as possible.....it is the only way to stop full control!
    As for the Lower House...neither Party wants the Independants tio get up....it makes their jobs to dominate so much harder!!!
    So if you are as sick of both Parties as the rest of us....that is exactly what you should encourage people to do....elect as many Independants as possible!!!
    That way ....regardless of who gets up....they will have to negotiate...which is their job...to be able to enact any legislation!
    Good Luck!
    Adrianus
    17th May 2016
    8:38am
    A vote for an Independent is a vote for Labor and the Unions.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    9:20am
    Hear hear Frank, absolutely right.
    Wait for the strikes to start and the boats of course.
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    10:54am
    Good post Not Senile Yet. You will notice that the government trolls above do not approve but you have correctly understood the place of the senate in the bigger scheme of things.
    We have seen this big business owned government try its best to get rid of Independent senators so that it can have a rubber stamp. It is wonderful to see that you understand that the senate has a very real purpose and that it should reject bad legislation.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:14pm
    There's the troll word again dear boy.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    17th May 2016
    9:52pm
    If you are right, Frank, bring on the Independent voters. We need more of them. Anything to get rid of these disgusting greedy neoliberals who are destroying our lifestyle.
    Aussie
    17th May 2016
    2:58am
    This is something for all of you to digest while having a BBQ ... I do not believe this - I copy from the general news forum ... read and comment .......This is one more reason why they are not getting my vote ..... we have work hard for that money .....

    The Turnbull Government's planned company tax cuts would slash Australian revenue while delivering a multi-billion-dollar tax windfall to the US Treasury, new research says.
    The US company tax rate is 35 per cent, while Australia's is 30 per cent. Under a tax treaty, American companies paying tax in Australia would have to make up the difference at home.
    Using data from the US Internal Revenue Service, research by the Australia Institute found the planned company tax cut outlined in this month's budget would transfer more than $11 billion in revenue from Australian to US coffers.
    The main argument for the Turnbull Government's proposal to cut the company tax rate to 25 per cent over the next 10 years has been that it would attract more foreign investment — producing a bigger, more productive economy in the long run.
    US companies are by far the biggest source of direct foreign investment in Australia.
    "So in a sense what you've got is a tax transfer from the Australian ATO to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) of the United States," the Australia Institute's executive director Ben Oquist said.
    He argues that Australia's lower company tax rate was effectively a gift to the US, allowing its tax office to collect more revenue at Australia's expense.
    And if the company tax rate is cut lower, the size of the gift will grow.
    "Once the company tax cut as proposed comes into full operation in 2026-27, we estimate that that extra transfer that will essentially go from the ATO to the US Internal Revenue Service, the annual rate is approximately $US732 million or around $US8 billion over 10 years," Mr Oquist said.

    Sorry to ruin your BBQ but this is very serious stuff for the future of our country
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    11:00am
    Good observation.
    The Turnbull government tax cuts predominantly benefit the wealthy and it goes without saying that average Australians are going to have to pay more taxes to allow this to happen. In a nutshell we are seeing class warfare and a transfer of money from poor to rich.

    You are also correct about the effect overseas investors. The difference in the company tax rates (35% in US to coming 25% in Australia) will result in large amounts of money flowing from Australia to the US. This is something that was never mentioned by Turnbull or Morrison as they sold their tax cuts to the nation under the guise of stimulating business. Nothing of the sort. Just a plain tax cut for the rich.
    Vote anything other than Liberal folks!
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:13pm
    You must stand for government MICK dear boy, this country need you and how.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    7:53am
    It needs to get rid of the idiots who are destroying our lifestyle to give money to the US government, Stan. Can you not read? Or is it that you are so blinkered by prejudice that your brain simply can't absorb facts?

    This is what the corrupt LNP claim is ''growing the economy'' - GIFTING money to the US government that SHOULD be used for the benefit of Australian taxpayers.

    They have been advised over and over and over by reputable economists that company tax cuts DO NOT CREATE GROWTH. They have been shown historical examples.

    One can only conclude that they are out to destroy this country for some sinister cause, because NOTHING they are doing is beneficial for the nation, and they just keep telling unconscionable lies to try to fool the fools into believing them. (Obviously they have fooled some fools, sadly!)

    I don't like Labor, and I think their immigration policies are thoroughly insane and destructive, but we can't afford another term of LNP. They have already wiped out the retirement plans of millions. We will end up like Greece, where the rich are partying (and covering up their swimming pools to avoid a tax!) and the poor are living in hovels and begging for food. That is clearly what the LNP are aiming for. And they are making sure that the lower middle-class is ground down to the level of the poor and will be begging alongside them.
    Aussie
    17th May 2016
    3:05am
    this is a continuation of my previous comment ..... if this continue we can for sure kill our kids future ...... read think and comment

    On the current exchange rate that would mean that $11 billion in revenue is foregone.
    "I think that Australians will be mightily disturbed to think that they're going to lose some of the revenue from a company tax cut to US taxpayers at their expense, for no economic benefit," Mr Oquist said.
    "If that US company is essentially paying the tax but just to somebody else, there can be no extra foreign investment as a result of that."
    Mr Oquist said the Government's argument was that the revenue loss would be offset by the possibility of more foreign investment from other jurisdictions due to the lower company tax rate in Australia.
    "The reality is of course foreign investment comes to Australia for all sorts of different reasons," he added.
    "Whether there's a good education system, whether there's a good infrastructure, whether there's a stable democracy — these are much bigger determinants of investment than the corporate or company tax rate."
    Responding to the Australia Institute's report, Finance Minister Mathias Cormann said then-Treasury secretary Ken Henry's tax review, released in 2010, found employment and the economy would benefit from lower company taxes.
    "A more competitive company tax rate will attract additional investment, it will boost productivity, it will increase the size of the economy permanently by more than 1 per cent in the long term," Senator Cormann told reporters.
    "It will lead to more jobs, it will lead to higher real wages over time and, of course, it will lead to additional revenue for Government over time which will help underpin additional investments in schools, hospitals, roads and so on."
    At a Senate estimates hearing on the week of the budget, Treasury forecast that the Government's corporate tax cut and key related measures would cost more than $48 billion in revenue forgone over 10 years.
    On two of three scenarios modelled by Treasury for funding the tax cut, the employment gain over the long term is 0.1 per cent; on the third it is 0.4 per cent.

    No more from me I give up totally ..... Goodbye guys good Luck I never come back
    MICK
    17th May 2016
    11:02am
    I am tending to agree that Australia is not looking like a great place to live in the future unless we get rid of ANY government seeking to turn us into another America....the land of the impoverished and obscenely rich.
    roy
    17th May 2016
    2:13pm
    MICK, we need you as PM dear boy.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    8:16am
    Aussie, how do we get this message out to the gullible fools who believe this LNP's lies? And why is the Labor Party not highlighting this? It makes me very suspicious of the motives of politicians.

    Why are lobby groups not shouting this? Why are independents not telling the nation the truth?

    The LNP would certainly be ousted if the majority understood what they are doing. But it seems nobody wants to expose them. I tried to expose their betrayal of all Australians with pension changes that will discourage and punish saving for retirement and make it beneficial for the soon-to-retire to either gift their money to their kids or hide it under the mattress and claim a full pension. People who tried hard to be self-sufficient and were proud of taking very little from the government will now say ''stuff it, what's the point?'' and contrive to take full pensions, because they suffer so unfairly if they do what is honest and responsible (and what the government has urged for decades)

    It just seems to me that a lot of people have some vested interest in ensuring truths are not exposed, and sadly a lot of blinkered fools would rather believe political lies than consider obvious facts that can be verified, and that make perfect sense to anyone with a brain. It's so frustrating!

    Every time I see an LNP supporter here, they rant on with propaganda that makes no sense or they throw insults at people they ASSUME (often wrongly!) to be ''lefties''. They NEVER respond logically to the welcome exposure of FACTS that evidence the LNP's disgracefully bad management that is destroying the Australian lifestyle.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    8:42am
    And no, I am NOT a Labor supporter. I hate their immigration policies. I don't much like the unions, although I acknowledge they are necessary and do a lot of good, but I do favour their powers being tightly controlled. I am disgusted with the Greens. I think they are totally irresponsible and dangerous.

    I have voted LNP for most of my life, but right now I believe the priority MUST be to get rid of this disgraceful LNP before they completely destroy this country and finish the job of wiping out any hope working and middle-class Aussies have of a moderately comfortable retirement.
    Adrianus
    18th May 2016
    9:48am
    The Greens want 50,000 refugees each year. Labor want 27,000. My guess is that they will negotiate the middle ground until the Greens push the envelope then it will be on again. Our Patrol and Naval vessels turned into lifeguards and water taxis.
    Wake up people before you lose your pensions.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:36am
    Labor is NOT allying with the Greens (who actually want to ally with LNP) and Labor's policies on immigration and refugees are almost identical to the LNPs Frank. Why don't you take your bigot glasses off and educate yourself. Be a bit objective for a change (if you are capable of shedding your egocentricity and self-interested focus for a minute or two)
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:40am
    News flash, FRANK. (You've obviously been asleep for a few years!)

    People ARE LOSING THEIR PENSIONS - through LNP viciousness and cruelty. And many more would be suffering if the Senate hadn't blocked one proposal. But now we are faced with more back-door attacks on pensioners - attacks LABOR OPPOSED.

    The risk for pensioners is voting the LNP back. It will mean US or Greek-style poverty for the disadvantaged and the end of Medicare.
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    9:12am
    Yawn......Awe gee Rainey, I've just woken up to the fact that your mob want 50,000 refugees every year and the mob you want to win the election so that your mob has more power wants to double the current intake to 27,000.
    No wonder you don't want to discuss that. 27,000 is a pretty big number. Where will those people live?
    We have 57,000 already on the waiting list in NSW alone!
    I wondered why Labor's forward estimates for unemployment were high. Labor will raise debt and taxes to cover the cost of increased welfare. It's not looking too good is it?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    10:17am
    Frank, again you display your arrogant stupidity.

    (1) There is no such thing as ''my mob''. I don't have a ''mob''. And I am NOT and never have been a committed Labor supporter. I was a committed LNP supporter, when the LNP wasn't so inept, corrupt and self-serving and doing so much harm

    (2) NOBODY I support wants 50,000 refugees every year, and I've strenuously opposed even the current refugee intake. Actually, I believe taking in refugees is inhuman to the people left behind, because only the strong make it out. They should be at home defending and caring for those who can't get out, and making their nation stronger and safer - not running away and leaving their families and friends to suffer. I support the idea of training refugees as soldiers and sending them back to fight.

    (3) Labor WILL NOT raise debt and taxes. Your mob have tripled the deficit. Labor will introduce FAIR measures to address it - NOT the stinking self-serving and detrimental changes that shift the burden from the rich to the poor (which will soon turn us into Greece, where the rich pay nothing and the poor starve!)

    No, it's NOT looking good if the stinking destructive LNP are re-elected. Heaven help us!
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    11:31am
    Tripled the deficit?
    Rubbish!
    Really Rainey, you were showing signs of intelligence on (1) and (2). Now you are just repeating Tanya Plibersek's lies. You have something in common with Tanya. Neither of you are good at math.
    By the way, I don't have a mob, but I honestly believe that our only chance is to return the Turnbull government with a majority in both houses. I don't like the behaviour of any of the politicians.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    6:38pm
    My sympathies if that's what you believe, Frank. I hope the powers that be have mercy one day and doctors find a way to fix your brain. It's in dire need of repair!
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    6:50pm
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-18/fact-check-did-the-govt-triple-the-deficit/7407538
    MICK
    20th May 2016
    5:15pm
    Ha, ha, ha Frank. Correct on the deficit. This government only DOUBLED IT....and increased debt by $100 BILLION. That's 2 x NBNs you idiot. And as if doubling the deficit was acceptable to a government which was elected on bring the budget back into deficit".
    You have made my point on why THIS GOVERNMENT IS MARKED FOR ERADICATION. They're gone in 6 weeks! Hopefully you and your other avatars as well.
    kevinc
    17th May 2016
    8:52am
    thanks kss, but you did not answerer the question.
    im aware it does not affect me, read the question again.
    kevin.
    Rodent
    17th May 2016
    9:13am
    Dear Appathetic

    I refer to your comments from yesterday ---beyond caring - don't forget the deeming rate thresholds are also being lowered so the vast majority of age pensioners will loose out, even those under the $450k

    The current Deeming Rates and associated Thresholds we last changed on 1 July 2015. Although the Cash rate has reduced since that time I don't believe that it would be in the Govt's interest right now to LOWER the deeming rates as this would cost the Govt in some increased Pension payments. But you never know, 1 July 2016 is the next possible change date, and is just before the Election, so the Govt may announce that they will lower the Deeming Rates to sweeten the pie for a small number of Pensioners
    Appathetic
    17th May 2016
    11:26am
    Sorry Rodent I should have been clearer. I was referring to the lowering of the thresholds, not the actual deeming rates. That is, more pensioners will be affected by increasing their deemed income assessed. So, for a couple, the deeming rates will start to apply for balances over $50k whereas currently it is just over $77k.

    https://www.humanservices.gov.au/corporate/budget/budget-2014-15/budget-measures/disability-and-carers/reset-assets-test-deeming-rate-thresholds
    Rodent
    17th May 2016
    3:58pm
    Dear Appathetic

    The Deeming changes to which you now refer will not be going ahead. Following is extract from Super Guide, and my memory says that I have seen this NOT going ahead elsewhere in other information
    Extract from Super Guide - a very reliable source in all things Super, Pension etc

    Note: The federal government had announced that from 20 September 2017, the deeming thresholds would be reset, which meant that the income deemed on your financial assets would be deemed at a higher rate reducing your entitlements to the Age Pension. More specifically, from 20 September 2017, the government intended to reset the deeming thresholds for the lower deeming rate to $30,000 (singles) and $50,000 (couples). The federal government is NO LONGER proceeding with this measure.
    Appathetic
    17th May 2016
    7:59pm
    Rodent - thank you for that as I had missed the change. The Greens, our local Liberal MP, Centrelink still have this as a planned change. However I did find reference to the cancellation of that budget item on the DVA site.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    18th May 2016
    8:46am
    Hello pensioners, how many of you got your THANKYOU CARD from the US Government for sacrificing your lifestyle to GIFT $11 BILLION DOLLARS to the IRS to reduce the US government's debt?

    This is what LNP supporters call ''responsible economic management - the adults in control''. Slash company taxes so foreign companies operating in Australia pay less here and more in their own country. Transfer $11 BILLION DOLLARS PER ANNUM of our tax revenue to foreign governments.

    And guess who pays for that? Australian retirees and struggling working families!

    Good one Turncoat! I hope you enjoy the thank-you gifts Obama no doubt sent you!
    Watchful
    18th May 2016
    1:53pm
    Just to add to the debate.
    The high company tax rate in Australia is the biggest con job that I have ever seen. The actual average company tax paid by Australian companies was 24.78% with the highest rate paid been 27% in the tax year 2014/2015 .

    What do the Conservatives have to do before the Australian people say enough or do we suffer from some strange perversion that allows
    the Conservatives to run this con unimpeded.
    tomtom
    18th May 2016
    1:35pm
    OK here is one for you all. I wrote to the Victorian Government about the EXCESSIVE delay in retirees getting dental treatment. We have waited 4 years. We received the following reply from Jill Hennessy, Minister for health, Andrews Government. Quote: People requiring urgent care are assessed, triaged and managed using the departments dental priority tool and are offered an appointment. In addition, specific populations that may often experience barriers to accessing health services are given priority. These include children, pregnant women, ABORIGINAL PEOPLE, REFUGEES and ASSYLUM SEEKERS, people facing homelessness and people registered as clients of mental health and disability services. Priority clients are offered the next available appointments and are not reflected in waiting list numbers - unquote. She is blaming cuts by the Federal Government for this, could be, but I blame these idiot Governments for GIVING these people who have made NO contribution to our tax system priorities over the hard working Aussies ( and others ) who have contributed over the decades through taxes, so, why is the Government giving to those who have done stuff all for our country by way of increasing expenditure for them and neglecting pensioners who have contributed all their working lives.
    Aussie
    18th May 2016
    11:37pm
    My comments are public domain information and available to anyone that search and search like I do everyday I search for appropriate information that may affect my pension in anyway and I keep finding a lot of info for example look at Zew Zealand pension system and you will get a nice example of what may happen to us also look what is happening in USA with the elections and UK with the EURO ..... so watch out boys and girls look for other means of survival I am at the moment preparing my small farm to self subsist and sell my products so If I lose the pension I will be Ok.
    But unfortunately you can not do that in Australia because all the regulations and licences you will need apart from the set up a company or a sole trader and pay exorbitant taxes on the personal and your small business ..... no matter where you look you lose so what to do ??? in Australia no way Overseas yes lots of options and very cheap

    This is my life and this is what I am doing - Next Jan or Feb will be permanently in Overseas and in process to be self sufficient with hydroponics and other vegetables and fruits so I do not depend of the pension if it goes.
    C
    devuman
    19th May 2016
    5:30am
    What a non-story! Invented purely to let the wingers winge again. Pathetic.

    O.K. Here's some rumours that I have heard:

    1. Age Pensioners over eighty will be involuntarily euthanased;
    2. Age Pensioners will be divided into those whose surnames begin with A to L and M to Z. Each group will only be paid every alternate fortnight;
    3. All Age Pensioners will no longer receive the energy supplement, but instead will be charged the same amount as an energy levy.

    There you are Debbie - three more scare articles for you to write and for the wingers to moan about.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    7:33am
    Devuman, you can sling off at those who worry about the future and make jokes about rumours, but the situation is actually very serious. We are governed by a party that clearly want to reduce the availability of support for the disadvantaged and cut the aged pension in real terms. They have demonstrated their desire. Thankfully, their first attempt was frustrated, so they reverted to a seriously unfair and economically unsound policy that makes no logical sense in the current economic environment and will not save money over the long term because it discourages and punishes saving and striving for substantial independence.

    The removal of the energy supplement was their third step in a process that is clearly designed to reduce support to the aged, and it's terrifying many - understandably.

    It's sad to see so many obviously privileged, arrogant, self-serving egomaniacs making fun of people who are frightened for their future, and mocking them for expressing their fear.

    This country used to be a great place to live - the best in the world. Sadly, greed and selfishness has destroyed it, and the LNP are demonstrating that their focus is indulgence of the greed and selfishness of the upper class, and to hell with the rest.

    What we should be doing here is debating the merits and flaws of policies and formulating a sensible strategy for fighting back. If people would stop making fun of those who have genuine concerns and insulting everyone who they ASSUME doesn't share their political bigotry, we might actually achieve something worthwhile by objectively analysing policies and exposing the flaws, formulating sensible solutions, and encouraging action by members to progress endeavours to make politicians consider those solutions seriously, instead of reacting to dumb thought bubbles with minimal attention to the devastating long-term consequences of their incompetence, arrogance, and self-serving motives.

    For my part, I have to say the attitude of people like you is contemptuous. Denigrating folk who have genuine worries about how they will manage to sustain an acceptable lifestyle through their old age and not die miserable is disgusting.
    MICK
    19th May 2016
    8:25am
    What a post Devuman. Not even Frank (??) would post something as stupid is this. Left wingers? Yeah right. More like right wing BS intentioned to divert attention from this government's performance.
    devuman
    19th May 2016
    8:41am
    Not as stupid as your average posts, Mick. And you miss the point. My main mock aims at Debbie's moronic post concerning a perception that the age pension would be cut shortly. No such reality exists.
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    9:05am
    devuman is right MICK. If I was a pensioner with medical issues it would be wise to stay off this site until after the election. The added stress is not necessary.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    10:06am
    Devuman is wrong, Frank, and so are you.

    The pension IS BEING CUT. Some pensioners are suffering huge reductions due to a very foolish and damaging taper rate change that clearly was given no sensible thought.

    Now new pensioners are being deprived of a benefit - which of course is a precursor to it being removed from all pensions, but even if it wasn't PENSIONS ARE BEING CUT.

    Devuman, why don't you focus on facts instead of insulting people and mocking them?
    devuman
    19th May 2016
    12:44pm
    Rainey, my first post was as a result of Debbie's false claim that pensions were to be cut - they aren't.

    Mick then insulted me and I returned fire.

    Please explain the 'foolish and damaging taper rate cut'.

    And new pensioners are not being deprived - the energy supplement was to counter the effects of the carbon tax. There is no carbon tax so why should there be a benefit? At least the Govenmment were compassionate enough to leave it in place for thiose who have got used to it. New pensioners do not need the benefit because they do not suffer the tax. What part of 'supplement' do you not understand?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    6:36pm
    Devuman, pemsions ARE being cut.

    I have explained the foolish and damaging taper rate cut over and over - but since you are obviously not very aware: The government has changed the penalty for having saved (but not managed to be totally self-sufficient in a difficult economic environment) from $1.50 per $1000 to $3 per $1000 per fortnight. That's 7.8%, in case you can't do math.

    Most retirees can't get that much return on investments these days. Many get only 3% or less. Government says 5% is average. So someone with $200,000 over the low threshold the Govt set has two choices: invest and get maybe $6000 to $10,000 a year return, FIXED (no increases), or spend it on a luxury cruise and get $15,600 a year return rising every six months. IDIOTIC!

    Someone with $1.1 million on retirement can buy a $250,000 house and invest $850,000 million and get no pension. Someone with $3 million on retirement can buy a $2.5 million house, invest $500,000 and get a full pension. IDIOTIC!

    The government has totally destroyed all incentive to save and plan for retirement and set up rich rewards for being irresponsible and putting your hand out for taxpayer funds.

    The policy is grossly unfair, because it hurts those who are underprivileged and can't achieve high investment returns most. It is kindest to those who can keep earning, those who gifted generously before retirement, and those who live in very expensive houses. It is cruellest to the neediest - the poorly educated, the sick, the disabled, those who can't access expert financial advice readily, those who live in modest homes that require high maintenance or will need expensive renovation (and who saved for that). It's cruellest to those who sacrificed most to save -going without luxuries others are now rewarded richly for enjoying. It discourages planning for old age and investing in super and rewards splashing money about and relying on the pension for support later.

    It is utterly and completely IDIOTIC and seriously damaging to the economy.

    New pensioners ARE being deprived, because the carbon tax may have been removed, but the costs remained. NO PRICE DECREASES OCCURRED (despite Abbott's persistent lies). ALL PENSIONERS NEED IT because the cost continue. I fully understand ''supplement'', and I understand skyrocketing costs of power also.

    As for ''compassion'', the LNP has none. Watch for the next cruel cut. It's coming soon if they win election.
    devuman
    20th May 2016
    4:17am
    Oooooohhhhhhh! You are referring to the sensible and necessary remedial measures that the government had to introduce as one of numerous strategies to attempt to cover the massive debt and deficit left by the incompetent previous government.

    They were passed by both houses and I don't hear labor promising to repeal them should they return to power (heaven forbid!) - hardly "foolish".

    Age pensioners with assets below the new levels will have no pension cuts. So it is wrong to say pensions will be cut. More correctly, SOME pensions will be cut.
    devuman
    20th May 2016
    4:36am
    And, in fact, for the estimated 50,000 Australians who will now be within the asset-test free area threshold, their pensions will INCREASE and the estimated 120,000 Australians on a part-pension who now will comply will receive an INCREASE in their part-pension.

    So although some pensions will be cut, some pensions will increase. The increases will accrue to the less wealthy pensioners and the cuts to the wealthier pensioners - OMG, an LNP policy that favours the underdog! What next?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st May 2016
    7:01pm
    Devuman you are absolutely WRONG in your understanding of what impact the asset test change will have. It will hurt LOW INCOME EARNERS. Many will be forced to live on half the pension rate, or drain their savings. Those privileged well-educated who get high returns will not be hurt. Only the battlers who can't achieve high returns will be taxed at 320% on their miserable little interest and will have to drain savings they went without lifestyle to accrue and forego the essential eye surgery or teeth reconstruction or household renovation or aged care they saved so hard for.

    The policy discriminates against the sick, the disabled, the educationally disadvantaged, younger retirees (who have to make their savings last longer), and those with modest homes (particularly homes that need maintenance or renovation). It obstructs plans to downsize housing and punishes people who do. It discriminates in favour of cheats, manipulators, generous gift givers, spendthrifts, and people who grossly over-invest in homes - thus compounding housing affordability problems.

    It is NOT helping the underdog. It's helping the less responsible and less frugal and less hard working, and it's destroying all incentives to save and strive for self-reliance. It will therefore drive taxes UP UP UP to pay for a lot more people on pensions. And the genuinely hard up get NOTHING from the change. NADA ZILCH ZERO! And of course the very well off suffer no hurt at all, as usual. As the bible says, ''he who has little, all that he has shall be taken from him.''

    Needs-based welfare creates dependence. That's been conclusively proved. It's why we have a relatively high portion of drop-kick bludgers on the dole today, and generational welfare dependence.

    Asset-based taxation only works when investment returns are high. When they are low, as now, offering someone 7.8%, indexed to inflation, to SPEND their savings is DAFT. It will reduce saving, increase reliance on the pension, and cost the country more. Any intelligent person could see that in an instant.

    Labor opposed the policy and wanted to implement a much more sensible and much fairer policy of income testing and taxes. That would work. I believe they will revert to that when in power. I certainly hope so - because that would be economically sustainable and very much fairer.

    There is serious problem with the mentality among those who approve this policy. They are short-sighted non-thinkers who can't see past a slick dishonest slogan and examine the wider implications of the policy. Smart people will NOT condone this stupidity. But I'm patient. I'll be saying 'told you so' when the government is moaning about unexpected aged pension costs blowouts. And then those with much less will be hit with huge cuts. Watch and see!

    Congratulations, Devuman, on supporting change that will drive debt up and cause hurt to taxpayers and pensioners alike. Good one!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st May 2016
    7:07pm
    BTW. Devuman, Frank and Bonny. Stupid Morrison's $2.4 billion is disappearing fast! A survey of 200 part pensioners in our area affected by the taper rate change found that 98 had already booked overseas cruises to reduce their assets; 52 had arranged expensive home extension/renovation; and 40 were selling their homes and upsizing. That leaves 10 who will get less pension, and 190 who will get MORE THAN BEFORE.

    At the same time, of 50 yet-to-retire aged between 58 and 60, 35 said they are gifting large sums to their children more than 5 years before retirement to ensure they get a fair pension.

    Totally consistent with what I said would happen. Idiot Morrison is going to be red-faced and the taxpayer is going to suffer. But fools can't listen and learn.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    22nd May 2016
    8:54am
    And one more thing, Devuman. You claim the changes were ''very necessary''?

    Why were they necessary? So Morrison could give people earning over $80,000 a year a tax cut, huge tax cuts to very high income earners, and a big tax cut to business (most of which don't pay the prescribed rate anyway, with all the rorts and dodges they can employ) which results in $11 billion going to the IRS in America.

    So, Morrison claims to save $2.4 billion by cutting incomes to retirees, many of whom will struggle to meet their reasonable needs in old age, the claim can be proven to be ambitious and frivolous, but in any case Morrison is GIFTING $4.5 times the claimed saving to the US Government.

    And you and Frank and Bonny actually APPROVE of this?

    Mind boggling STUPIDITY.
    Adrianus
    22nd May 2016
    9:09am
    Rainey, it's all about rebalancing. Those so called rorts you speak of I assume are # negative gearing and Super contributions? You realise they are watered down with lower tax rates?
    I approve of incentivising people to work and become industrious. I approve of people getting rewarded for having a go. Taking advantage of opportunity and having a positive view of the future. You on the other hand worship money Rainey. You will always be unhappy while you cherish the dollar. Those who choose achievement over reward will also be rewarded with a real and lasting sense of value.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    22nd May 2016
    3:03pm
    Frank, I ABSOLUTE DO NOT WORSHIP MONEY. You dreamed that up to insult me. I have never indicated that anywhere. But I am concerned that people who worked and saved for their future should be allowed to enjoy the future they earned and not have it UNFAIRLY eroded by DUMB POLICIES that DO NOT BENEFIT ANYONE.

    You say you approve of people being rewarded for having a go, yet you approve of someone who had a go being stripped of benefits while those who didn't are handed more. That makes no sense!

    You know NOTHING about me, so it's clear your assault on my character is a desperate move to discredit me because you can't argue with the facts I've presented.

    Sorry, Frank. You and your elitist, self-serving corrupt LNP bastard mates ARE WRONG.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    22nd May 2016
    6:31pm
    BTW. Frank. Where did you get the WRONG idea that my concerns are personal? They are absolutely not. My concerns are for the nation the LNP is stuffing with their sick elitist budgets taking money from those who need it and those who earn it, and giving it to the well-to-do and the US government.

    My concern is for the taxpayer and the next generation of retirees, who will be totally screwed if this disgustingly corrupt bunch of idiots gets back into power.

    My concern is for the cost of health and education, that will go through the roof if the LNP is allowed to push it's cruel policies; for pensioners, who are suffering cut after cut (oh, nobody yet mentioned the axing of funds to the states to cover pensioner benefits, because so far the states haven't reacted, but wait for it. It's coming). My concern is for the young part pensioners whose savings will be decimated and who will be ground down to the level of those who didn't save, and for the taxpayers who have to make up the $180,000 over 10 years for every part pensioner who goes on a $100,000 spending spree, and who have to make up the higher pension for every pensioner who sinks more into an unnecessarily large and lavish family home in order to avoid having their hard-won savings ripped away.

    But while the LNP is ripping up taxpayer's money and stuffing the nation, and you are squawking about the ''debt and deficit'' (that the LNP has sent soaring with it's mismanagement) your precious Libs have GIFTED $11 BILLION OF OUR HARD EARNED MONEY TO THE US GOVERNMENT.

    My concern is that we have an incompetent idiot treasurer working for a bunch of fools whose only talent is telling lies.
    Rodent
    19th May 2016
    8:56am
    Devuman

    You look lie a new poster?, are you NOT aware that Pensions will be changed, Reduced for some, Eliminated for others as from 1 Jan 2017?
    devuman
    20th May 2016
    4:39am
    Rodent

    See my replies above. SOME pensions will be cut and SOME pensions will be increased, with the changes favouring the less affluent pensioners.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th May 2016
    7:36pm
    Wrong, Devuman. The changes favour the irresponsible, the dishonest, the manipulators, and the spendthrifts. Not the less affluent. The neediest get NOTHING. And the stupidity of the taper rate change means there will be a lot more needy. Those who saved are denied the benefit of their saving and ground slowly into hardship.

    What kind of blithering IDIOT would approve going to someone who gets 5% or less return on savings - fixed - and offer them 7.8% rising every 6 months to BLOW THE LOT? You would have to be a moron with no understanding of economics, let alone human psychology. But that's the sort of DIMWITTED IDIOT we have running the country's finances. Heaven help us all!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    10:10am
    How very sad for the taxpayers of Australia that the selfish, arrogant, privileged I'm okay stuff you brigade, and the just plain DUMB are not protesting pension changes that are damaging this country seriously and driving the costs of supporting our aged population SKY HIGH because IDIOTS can't get that punishing saving and responsible planning and rewarding cheating, manipulation, irresponsible behaviour, and massive overinvesting in housing is BAD FOR THE NATION.

    I really feel for the next generation of retirees. By the time their turn comes, the country will be well and truly stuffed and there will be no funds for supporting the poor aged, because the selfish arrogant ''I'm okay stuff you'' brigade and the fools who can't see past their twisted noses didn't stand up for the rights of retirees AND taxpayers and demand SENSIBLE PENSION REFORM that IS GENUINELY FAIRER AND MORE SUSTAINABLE.
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    10:27am
    Rainey when will you understand that we wasted a lot of money under the previous government and we need to live within our means now. It all adds up, like the $5m pa for the phone bill of refugees the Labor government had in detention. Or the $6m monthly private jet charters to fly refugees around the country. The Greens want to close these detention centres on the outside chance of a Labor victory seeing them filled again. God help us!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    11:56am
    When will I understand, Frank? When the disgustingly dishonest, corrupt and inept LNP does something that serves the nation's interests instead of only those of the privileged - that's when.
    When idiots acknowledge that you don't fix the nation's debt by plunging responsible savers trying to be as independent as possible in old age into hardship and rewarding those who are just happy to bludge on taxpayers or who cheat and manipulate to take more than their due. When you stop ranting about crap that is totally irrelevant to the issue that I've raised and demonstrated illustrates inept governance and acknowledge that on that particular issue, we should be looking for a better way, because the LNP's lies don't cut it. It's an expensive BLUNDER.
    And when the LNP stop sending the deficit soaring with every stupid move they make to please the filthy rich and corrupt back-room boys who fund their election campaign.

    When will fools like you who can't think past soap box ravings attempting to blame ''the other side'' for everything and NEVER acknowledge the failings of the LNP understand? (Probably never!)

    Now cut the IRRELEVANT CRAP trying to sideline the discussion and address the issue of INCREASED TAXES BECAUSE OF STUPID PENSION POLICY.
    Adrianus
    19th May 2016
    1:12pm
    Wrong about what Rainey? That the cupboard is bare? When I looked at the Budget figures I'm sure I saw about $14.5b set aside to pay the interest on the debt. With another 50,000 refugees coming in, and with only 24% of them working after 4 years, we will need to spread the welfare budget even further. But that's not a concern for the Greens/Labor/Independent voters is it?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    6:20pm
    Wrong about LNP economic management Frank. One swallow doesn't make a summer. So they MAYBE do better managing refugees (not sure that's true given the huge expense of processing their way).

    That DOES NOT change the fact that their stupid destructive pension changes are sending the cost of funding aged pensions through the roof.

    What's the point of a dollar saved here if you waste a billion there?

    THEY ARE NOT MANAGING THE ECONOMY WELL. If they were, they wouldn't be implementing damaging and expensive DUMB changes to pensions that will drive costs UP.

    You really don't get it do you? And you are still harping STUPIDLY on BS about my voting preferences (which you don't even know) and crap about refugees.

    YES, WE NEED TO SPREAD THE WELFARE BUDGET EVEN FURTHER, BECAUSE CORRUPT IRRESPONSIBLE LNP POLITICIANS APPROVED A CHANGE TO THE TAPER RATE THAT WILL SEND THE COST OF PENSIONS SKYROCKETING.

    GET IT YET?

    When you incentivise and reward irresponsible behaviour, you get irresponsible behaviour - retirees being dishonest, manipulative, spendthrift, sinking too much into lavish houses, gifting and even separating to access the wonderful 7.8% indexed return they are offered for spending the savings that are generating a miserable pittance.

    Only an absolute DIMWIT would fail to condemn such a policy. But you are so devoid of intelligent response that all you can do is CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Proves you are WRONG.
    MICK
    20th May 2016
    5:17pm
    Frank is not totally stupid Rainey. He has been put up to his posts. Services to the Liberal Party? That's what ex Liberal MPs do....and get paid for on top of their generous superannuation schemes. Disgraceful.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th May 2016
    11:58am
    I'll say it again, since Frank with his LNP bias is determined to sideline the discussion - because the LNP supporters can't respond and justify their precious leaders' moronic and destructive policy:

    How very sad for the taxpayers of Australia that the selfish, arrogant, privileged I'm okay stuff you brigade, and the just plain DUMB are not protesting pension changes that are damaging this country seriously and driving the costs of supporting our aged population SKY HIGH because IDIOTS can't get that punishing saving and responsible planning and rewarding cheating, manipulation, irresponsible behaviour, and massive overinvesting in housing is BAD FOR THE NATION.

    I really feel for the next generation of retirees. By the time their turn comes, the country will be well and truly stuffed and there will be no funds for supporting the poor aged, because the selfish arrogant ''I'm okay stuff you'' brigade and the fools who can't see past their twisted noses didn't stand up for the rights of retirees AND taxpayers and demand SENSIBLE PENSION REFORM that IS GENUINELY FAIRER AND MORE SUSTAINABLE.

    Frank, only those who can't argue the point change the subject. It's CONCLUSIVE PROOF I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG.
    Aussie
    19th May 2016
    4:40pm
    hi all well with my cut pension I just pay my rent for the month and now going for a nice afternoon coffee cake and chat with some friends...... This is a great life with my cut pension .....so I will let you guys and Ladies to chat about the government the inflation the deeming rates the Energy payments he he he he comon guys and ladies go out and enjoy life is no much left .....just take what you can get ...because nothing you can do to make it better ...I already give up and now enjoy life 100%
    Have fun guys he he he he read this and think what you guys doing with your life's ...Love you all

    C
    Budwah
    20th May 2016
    12:37am
    How can these pension " cuts " that have been.mentioned in the budget occur if the budget has not been passed by both houses of Parliament?
    Everyone is asying the budget this the budget that but by calling an election it has not been made legal. So unless the coalition gain a majority of members in both houses of Parliament and they railroad it through the budget as it stands now is just a lot of wishful thinking on their part.
    Rodent
    20th May 2016
    8:01am
    Dear Budwah

    The changes to the Pension that take effect on 1 Jan 2017, were passed by BOTH houses of Parliament in May last year.

    LNP put up the Bill in Parliament, Labor Opposed it but the Greens supported the Government to get the bill passed
    The deal the Greens did was predicated on there being a full Retirement Incomes Review, which so far has not happened, and I doubt it will in the near future.

    Attached is the BS I received from the Greens at the time

    Thank you for your email regarding the recent changes to pensions.

    The Greens believe in a caring society and that includes ensuring that everyone can have a dignified retirement. We remain concerned about the most vulnerable in our community, and the growing inequality that is seeing people who are on low incomes struggle with even the basics like a home of their own. We have ensured a pathway for a decent retirement in Australia but this is the first step of many to come.

    That is why we have supported the government to change pensions to better support those with low and modest assets. The legislation that we passed means that the level of assets you can hold before you go from a full-pension to a part-pension will be increased, so more people with modest assets will receive higher part-pensions.

    The only thing that has changed is the assets tapers. The classes of assets that will be considered remain the same – and your home is not included. If you have any concerns about how this might affect you personally or someone you know, you can get advice that takes into account your circumstances by calling Centrelink’s advisory service on 132 300.

    Changing the assets thresholds and taper rate will make the pension system fairer. This policy effectively reverses the decision of the Howard government to spend the benefits of the boom on tax cuts and bonuses to shore up support in the lead up to the 2007 election and now, because of our stance of this issue, more Australians who don’t have the advantage of significant assets or a healthy super balance will be able to access a full pension.

    We acknowledge that this means that those with substantial assets will get smaller payments from the government. The pension cuts out for a couple (with their own home) if they have more than $823,000 of assets on top of their home value but at the other end of the scale, a couple (with their own home) can hold an additional $50,000 before their full pension is reduced. Retirees should also be aware that if their assets drop down below these new upper-thresholds in the future, they will qualify again for a pension.

    The government has also agreed to give special consideration to retirement incomes in its Tax White Paper, which means we can finally look at superannuation as part of the equation. This is a review the Greens have been seeking for a long time. The terms of reference are explicit about involving stakeholders at every stage, to build on the already strong appetite for further change, particularly to the super tax concessions. The review will have a focus on pensions, superannuation, taxation and workplace discrimination, to guide the important reforms that Australians need.

    You can read more detail about the policy and our position in our fact sheet: http://greensmps.org.au/content/materials/better-pensions-fact-sheet
    Or you can find out more of the facts here: http://greensmps.org.au/content/materials/getthefacts

    Thank you once again for your email.

    Yours sincerely


    Senator Rachel Siewert
    Australian Greens Spokesperson on Ageing
    kevinc
    20th May 2016
    11:02am
    Tell me senator Siewert, (greens ) do they still want to impose a capital gains tax on sale of the family home,? the only avenue left for a battler to get ahead.
    or can some other Greens supporter advise the facts. ? Kc.
    MICK
    20th May 2016
    5:18pm
    I'd like to know that one too. This is not on.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st May 2016
    2:28pm
    I've been studying economics and the last lecture revealed something very interesting - but not really surprising to me. It followed the history of welfare in Britain (noting similarities and differences in some other countries).

    The point that was made was that welfare, after WWII, was essentially based on a belief of entitlement and equality - and that welfare was the responsibility of the Government. After the financial crisis of 2008 - and in Britain primarily due to Thatcher's reign - welfare morphed to a more privatized model based on need.

    The problem with the ''need'' model is that it destroys incentive. Now this fits with what I've been saying about the changes to the means test. If you destroy incentive, you destroy initiative and enterprise and you make more people reliant on the State. Aggressive means tests keep people down and make them give up striving.

    Many here complain about ''bludgers'' and those who fake disability, no-hoper druggos, alcoholics, etc. etc. etc. We here complaints of people living permanently on benefits.
    It was interesting to hear acknowledgement of the fact that it is the privatization/corporatization economic model that the privileged so favour that is causing this problem. When you remove the rewards for endeavour, endeavour reduces.

    A welfare worker once told me he was disillusioned with his job because the system doesn't strive to help people up. It is designed to keep them down.

    Several alternative models for administering the aged pension have been suggested on this site. One is a return to the original implementation which Chifley stated was an entitlement for all aged persons - regardless of means. This approach is consistent with the approach to welfare that most countries took after WWII - the entitlement/state responsibility model. It wasn't as favoured by the middle class and well to do, who resented paying taxes to fund it, but it clearly worked far better than the flawed model we pursue today.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    22nd May 2016
    8:56am
    I hope all those who suffer as a result of pension cuts - of ANY kind (including cuts of benefits due to the Federal Govt refusing to continue subsidizing State benefits such as discounted rates, registration, licenses, etc) understands that they are being deprived in order to gift $11 billion to the US Government?

    I hope the IRS sent you all a big thank you card?
    Justsane
    22nd May 2016
    8:42pm
    Anyone on the Age Pension or intending to apply for it in the future has to have rocks in their head to vote for the Liberals, anyway.
    BMB
    23rd May 2016
    11:13am
    What is the age pension.
    Justsane
    24th May 2016
    11:13am
    BMB, In case you really don't know:

    https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/age-pension
    Billv
    19th Oct 2016
    11:12am
    Have become a big Pauline Hanson fan, and haven't voted for the 2 unknowing parties for some time. BUT keep in mind when voting for an independent his votes don't go to them by proxy if they lose. It's us pensioners that are always targeted when cutting spending by the Govt. I don't understand how they can retire on such high pensions and perks an still bludge extra benefits. Why are they not on asset tests like us? They don't even hold their positions for 40-50 years like we did
    Not Senile Yet!
    12th Jun 2017
    9:33am
    You are all trolls on here.
    Party puppets only do what their party tells them to do!
    Left?..Right? Who gives a Flying @#$#?
    Time to vote all the corrupt bastards into oblivion!
    Vote independant and put the Parties last!
    And one nation is included as a party......just a photocopy of the others!
    Sack the lot of them.


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