10th Jan 2018

Bupa calls for pensioners to pay more for care

Pensioners should pay more: Bupa
Olga Galacho

A shock increase in aged care costs could be included in this year’s Federal Budget if Treasury heeds a call to force pensioners to pay more for nursing home services.

The proposal by insurance company Bupa recommends that the capped value of people’s homes be increased from the current $162,087.20, so those with valuable homes are asked to pay more for care.

The capped value is used in an assets test to determine how much out-of-pocket individuals using aged care will be if they do not sell their home.

On average, the Government forks out about 70 per cent of aged care costs, leaving elderly individuals to pick up the balance.



The company’s suggestion is contained in its 2018-2019 Pre-Budget Submission.

In the submission, the insurer urges the Government to “seek out and carefully consider the views of Australians on the Productivity Commission’s and Tune Review’s recommendations” to hike up the cost of aged services for individuals.

Bupa believes it is necessary “to increase consumer contributions to aged care from those who can afford it, while providing a safety net for those who cannot”.

Before changing aged care funding policy, the insurer “strongly encourages” the Government to consider “at least increasing the capped value of the owner’s home in the means test and increasing the annual lifetime caps”.

The number of Australians aged 85 and over is projected to more than quadruple by 2050 to 1.8 million people, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

However, last year Aged Care Minister Ken Wyatt said that up to 1.3 million people had  received some form of assisted care in the previous 12 months. The Government spends more than $17 billion a year on the sector and Mr Wyatt projected this would rise to $21 billion in 2019.

Bupa argues the future older demographic will stretch demand and spending on nursing care for the elderly. It added that in part, the situation will worsen because of the “expected relative decline in family support and informal carers”.

More than 200 submissions seeking to influence the direction of the Budget have been published by Treasury since September.

Opinion: Aged care costs leave elderly out in the cold

Bupa – a foreign health insurer that collected $6.7 billion in earnings last financial year –  is telling our Government to jack up the cost of aged care for our most frail Australians.

Headquartered in London, and originally known as the British United Provident Association, the company operates 70 aged care facilities across Australia housing 6700 residents.

Bupa’s proposal is designed to save the Government money, it claims. A spokesperson from the company told YourLifeChoices that its recommendation was designed “to grow the pool of money” required to fund aged care services in a climate facing “budgetary constraints”.

Phew! For a minute I thought it was a bald-faced grab for pensioner savings.

However, the lack of transparency surrounding the Government’s method of assessing how much the elderly should cough up remains frustrating.

The system by which the Government decides how much an elderly homeowner should contribute to aged care costs is a total mystery even to many professionals working within the sector.

One such consultant, Jillian Slade of Oasis Aged Care Solutions, told YourLifeChoices the means test is “very complicated”.

“There is no formula, no one rule. Every case is different and it is very difficult for people to understand how much it will cost them to move into aged care when they need to,” Ms Slade said.

“Often, when I meet a client I begin to find out that what they thought would be a clear cut case is not. All sorts of issues complicate their circumstances, such as whether they hold their property under a tenants in common agreement or if there is a surviving partner who continues to live in the family home, and so on.”

It seems that trying to estimate how much care will cost when you are no longer able to care for yourself is like guessing the length of a piece of string.

Before governments and nursing home providers discuss increasing costs for the elderly, it would be useful for the assets test to be more transparent.

As things stand, older Australians are in the dark about their nursing home options. Further,  by the time they have no choice but to move into an aged care facility, their prospects of understanding their financial circumstances are possibly very encumbered.

The Government has been talking about making the aged care sector more sustainable for too long. It is time that it finally spelt out its plans in a way that is less opaque than it has been thus far.

Do you know if you will be able to afford aged care in the future? Do you believe people who hang onto their expensive homes should be forced to pay more in a nursing home?

 


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COMMENTS

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tisme
11th Jan 2018
9:47am
how about the govt pay carers more for the care they give ( I mean those who care for family
3.50 an hour is slavery
Rosret
11th Jan 2018
10:12am
Yes, but I would suggest that is the tip of the iceberg.
The cost of prescription drugs for some cancer treatments is a year's salary for just one person's treatment.
Its a hard call. We have the ability to keep people alive and the only limiting factor is the cost. So there is the dilemma.
How many of your friends and family would not be alive now if medicine had not advanced past 1980 - I know of many.
So what is the solution - I am glad I am not the one making those decisions.
MICK
11th Jan 2018
11:37am
"A shock increase in aged care costs"? Really? So this does not happen every year and health insurance does also not increase every year? Way above inflation as well.
This is a business and operators are in it for every dollar they can squeeze out of retirees heading to end of life.

This is the fault of families who do not want to be bothered. How long will it be before families accept that caring for older family members is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY? Maybe when estates are bled dry (the government's game plan) and the next generation gets nix.
mogo51
11th Jan 2018
1:19pm
The attitude of the Government and indeed previous Governments, leaves much to be desired.
There seems to be a brick wall between Governments and the needs of the elderly, common sense is non existent.
My mother who had virtually nothing after late life divorce, has been in a nursing home at Government expense. She has advanced alzimers, dementia etc, does not know who she is, where she is or who is playing! She is 95 and I am in tears every time I go and see her. But that is another issue I suppose.
But I cannot make a sensible decision for her to pass on peacefully with respect. She would be a prospect for the Guinness Book of Records, being in a nursing home now for more than 20 years. Now how much has that cost the Government, as she is a pensioner
and I am not in a financial position to assist her.
I can see many do gooders screaming about this, but when is a persons self respect going to be an issue for consideration. My sister has the same views.
Kaz
12th Jan 2018
11:49am
Some families happy to inherit but not willing to look after their family. Spend it.
Rosret
11th Jan 2018
10:07am
Bupa - I seriously dislike the sound of the name. I wonder if anyone is like me. Its lacks association with a familiar culture.
Yes, I know that is irrelevant. Increase the cost of aged care and the government will foot the bill and up will go welfare costs.
I know it sounds awful but the cost of drugs to sustain vegetables is massive. If a patient requests DNR then their must be something that limits family's authority to override their wishes. I don't want the protective mechanisms abused however there has to be a limit - surely.
Poppysmum
11th Jan 2018
10:14am
And Bupa wonder why customers are leaving them? There are four in my family alone who have switched recently. Totally agree with you about the DNR.....maybe we need to have it tattooed on our foreheads!
MICK
11th Jan 2018
11:43am
We have avoided being a part of the healthcare system and whilst later age is when illnesses mostly sneak up on people we will accept what comes. Good genes and a healthy lifestyle has seen us mostly incident free.
We will also be avoiding nursing homes until the bitter end and have already made plans for this.

If people avoided the private operators the business would not have the corporate structure it has and the greed of operators would not be the driving force of these businesses. Society has itself to blame so pay up or make other arrangements.
Tarabelle
11th Jan 2018
11:47am
Rosret, see later post re my actions on DNR. I have had to cancel all private health cover as it has become totally unaffordable on my DSP. for years I was covered for all, jointly with my Husband of 50 years. when he left the marriage, Medibank Private allowed him to stay on the cover we had had for decades, which included govt rebates. I was told that the policy we had together was no longer available to "new members" and I would have to take out a new policy which was double the cost of the one he was allowed to keep. I left Medibank Private in search of cheaper policy, but even then, after a year of trying to keep, I had to cancel as I simply could not afford it.
HS
11th Jan 2018
2:12pm
"Bump up the charges" Hence, the name Bupa.
Rosret
11th Jan 2018
2:42pm
Tarabelle, I don't think they want oldies on private health. We cost them too much.
PS I would have been calling consumer affairs after that little insurance deal. Did you let the insurance lapse for a while or was it a straight swap that you wanted.
Knows-a-lot
11th Jan 2018
2:43pm
Their name should be "Butch"...
Maggie
11th Jan 2018
10:20am
Once again a headline that is pure sensationalism. In the article that follows it says: "Bupa believes it is necessary “to increase consumer contributions to aged care from those who can afford it, while providing a safety net for those who cannot”.

So Bupa proposes a safety net for those who cannot afford more.

Having said all that I feel that the cost of care is already extortionate. However as long as the focus is on keeping us all alive for much longer, the need for care is going to increase.

We keep on reading about the wonderful research that is being done to extend human life. Why don't the researchers talk to some old people and find out what living longer is actually like? Most of us don't want to live on and on with chronic pain and ill health and decreasing quality of life, increasing dependence on others, and the loss of independence and dignity. The money could be better spent on making our lives easier.
trood
11th Jan 2018
11:58am
Well said Maggie, I for one don't want to live to 150!
Bupa is only interested in its own bottom line - profit!
Tarabelle
11th Jan 2018
11:58am
You are absolutely right Maggie. It is not the length, but the quality of life. I have a hard time thinking of the years of increasing chronic pain ahead of me. My pain medication was set at a level over 10 years ago by Dept Health, and my authority states that there will be no increase in this level for another 2 years yet. It is a shame that my condition has not remained at the level it was 10 years ago. Hence I am not in the least bit concerned with longevity. I, as you suggest, am only interested in my independence, and dignity, and how long I can maintain both of these things.
Hasbeen
11th Jan 2018
12:34pm
I'll drink to that. If the grim reaper comes along tomorrow, I'll not complain.

Having been born at the best time possible, even if there was a very nasty war going on, the massive improvement in the life style of common people has allowed me to do far more, & have more fabulous life experiences than I even dreamed of in my youth. We have had it better than our kids will, & much better than our grand kids will.

All that doing has worn the body out a bit, so now finding ways of reducing the physical pain, while still doing a little has become the name of the game. It is only the huge advances in medical science that has kept me here this long. Unfortunately every advance seems to come at even greater cost than the last. I can't help wondering just how much more we can expect our kids, many struggling in a rapidly changing world, to contribute to keeping us old crocks alive.

There are huge traps in age care, & they are getting worse. Everyone should do some serious research before the stuff hits the fan, & they have to make quick decisions. My mothers 8 months in care cost us a fortune, because we knew not what we were doing. We paid handsomely for that ignorance.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
1:24pm
Thing is like the semi-privatised 'public' health system - they get to prioritise on the lines of who will put more into their coffers.... I call it economic triage..... and in healthcare it is an utter disgrace to the medical professions and those purporting to be carers.

They should all hang their heads in the shame they do not begin to understand.. before we hang them all.
Rosret
11th Jan 2018
2:44pm
Likewise Maggie.
Mimi
11th Jan 2018
10:34am
If a spouse or a dependent, eg disabled child is not remaining in the family home, it should be sold to provide for aged care. If the home is kept, eg rented out this may affect pensions, if the person was receiving the age pension. This is fair, as the only other reason I can think of, other than the person hoping to return home at some stage, to keep a home would be to make capital gain, usually for the children to inherit. Fair enough, if that's what people want to do, but they should not expect the government to subsidise this. We had to sell our mum's home and were glad to do so , so that she could have decent aged care accommodation. Interestingly, if you have no assets, the government, ie the taxpayer is up for the full cost of your care.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
1:25pm
That was your mum's home - you said the family home... not quite the same thing.

Just saying.... and don't go selling your spouse, dependent or disabled child....
Mimi
12th Jan 2018
10:16am
Trebor, Mum's home was her family home. I can't see the difference unless family were still living in the home when the person went into care. We were required to sell it to pay her aged care bond. As I pointed out, if you work hard, have assets, including a home, you must pay, but if you don't provide for your old age, the government steps in. In some ways quite unfair.
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
2:36pm
Hmm - yes. If it was mum's family home. Avoid generalising about people who haven't worked hard and secure their retirement - this country is full of people who have been and are being robbed of any such opportunity. It will only get worse in the future, and I'm happy that I secured my children's future at great personal cost.

If we had a universal pension scheme and a properly organised one-shop retirement packaging scheme out of politician hands, it would be much better all round.

Australia is still riding on the miner's back, but it is benefiting very few people in this nation for many reasons.
Kathleen
11th Jan 2018
10:43am
I have been looking at the aged care site and was shocked at the charges that providers are quoting like nearly $70 per hour. If you got any of these services privately they would not cost that amount or you could at least seek reasonable quotes.
$3,500 a year as the base payment from pensioners for care packages is still huge for pensioners.
I suspect that this is a growth industry and there will be rampant overcharging.
As for BUPA we left them a few years back. Give them a miss. There are actually good private health insurers. We have one!
Linda
11th Jan 2018
11:23am
I think you are spot on Grandma!
johnp
11th Jan 2018
11:32am
Agree with many here as well as GrandmaKathleen.
And of of course in regard to retirement/nursing homes; avoid AVEO for obvious reasons
Question; who are these ??
"There are actually good private health insurers"
Triss
11th Jan 2018
12:49pm
I agree with you Grandma K. I reckon it would be cheaper to live in your own home and have a part-time private nurse come to give any medication that is needed, at least you are in control.
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
2:37pm
I like Mac's idea - strap in to a cruise ship permanently - the food is better and it's cheaper.
Blossom
12th Jan 2018
9:25pm
Trebor, I read an article that a lady is doing exactly that and loving every minute of it. The staff treat her like a queen. The food supplied on cruises is excellent. Some do excellent special dietary needs food too.
OnlyGenuineRainey
14th Jan 2018
9:35am
Just don't need a doctor or alcohol, unless you are loaded!
Ted
11th Jan 2018
11:17am
Look ar the recent complaints about retitement homes too! Clearly, the 2018 agenda is to provide the elderly with third world service at first world costs.
Triss
11th Jan 2018
12:56pm
You've got that right.
rob101
11th Jan 2018
11:17am
Typical Bupa, They screwed the NHS in the UK,They are screwing their workers in Australia NOW they want to screw the Pensioners!

rob101
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
2:38pm
Did they rort the NHS or did they stuff it up? Just asking here... I've heard about their 'wage deals' ......

11th Jan 2018
11:18am
Interesting selection of observations here - one contributor is arguing that the carer's benefit is not enough; everyone basically supports the concept that nurses and aged care workers aren't highly paid enough; and no-one wants to pay more tax! So how does all that work? If a sole surviving person needs to enter aged care, who pays for it, and who receives the benefit of the family home? The arguments here seem to be that contributors to this discussion are saying the beneficiaries should inherit, and the taxpayer should fork out for mum or dad's nursing home care. Is that equitable or feasible? I think not! In the 'old' days, and certainly in European (and possibly Asian) families, the family would have done its best to care for mum and dad in their final years. These days younger members of families are too busy looking out for themselves and sweating on Oma or Opa (however titled) to fall off the perch and leave them some loot!
Kaz
12th Jan 2018
12:04pm
I agree. Once they can no longer live in their home, it’s THEIR home so if it needs to be sold to get the best care for THEM, that should be done. Sometimes, families look at it as THEIR inheritance. It’s not. They should be cared for after working their life for it.
Linda
11th Jan 2018
11:21am
Aged care is so complex. My Aged Care is still being rolled out, I have no idea how long that might take and how many changes are on the cards for our old and infirm. There will be come confusion around this for a good while until the My Aged Care are able to get the settings right. Meanwhile we all struggle with too little information.

There are folks who live on their own who live in filth because they are unable to take care of themselves. These folks have either no family or family that is estranged for various reasons. There are elderly people where both are very advanced in age and one or both have dementia, trying to manage in their homes. There are families that do their best, some even have to quit their jobs in order to care for their relatives or loved ones. Some try to do it all in their homes, but in many cases this becomes impossible.

I agree that folks simply do not know what costs they are signing up to, or how their case is handled in terms of criteria. This is for nursing home and home care packages. The Government has tried to provide certainty. But with that certainty comes limits and when the limit is met what happens next??

Folks who are doing the caring in their homes are saving the country and all taxpayers, piles and piles of money. What if there was a care credit for those who have done as much as they can to keep their loved one at home? It would be nice to see often how much carers are saving the government and better recognition in the community. If they get support and are then able to continue longer and this too saves money. Consumers do put money into the costs of the home care. There are income and assets tests that determine these things. I gather at the moment there is an upper limit to how much any one person has to pay for their care.



Carers experience a lot of stress and anxiety over the demands of the role they have agreed to, which is basically being personally responsible that their loved one gets the care they need and that the carer gets the kind of support they need to continue. Nobody plans on being completely dependent on others, but this happens.

If folks have stayed in their home for well over 30 years then that means through no individual fault of their own, their property value has generally gone up. A 30,000 home can end up being a 1.5 million dollar home but it is the same home. This is the fault of the laws enacted by government and the might of the property investment people who seek to make millions by inflating the cost of living in a house.

As I understand it, the care industry had a huge impact on the new My Aged Care system, had some kind of hand in writing the rules, and it does seem they built in profits. Is it right that a person in need is allocated an amount from My Aged Care that goes into the funds of the provider. The provider has various ways to allocate the use of those funds, the consumer has some choice on who delivers the in home services. In at least some cases, the consumer of the services receives only half or less of the funds in actual in house services, and the rest of the tax payer money goes to the provider to cover their costs and overheads. The provider does have requirements to meet in order to provide services. They do need funds for their in house expenses and to complete the requirements that are in place to ensure all clients are safe, things such as police checks, ongoing training, etc. These in house billed services to the package funds can be in case management, admin costs, or other, plus the hourly rate for a given support service may be almost twice what the actual worked receives. This provides a good bit of flexibility, however at what cost?

Is there data available that shows how many of these home care packages are charging the consumers half or more of their allocated funds? What kinds of profits are these providers making across the board?


What happens when a paid worker turns up at a home for a billed 1/2 hour visit and sees a person covered in filth, and they have no food in the house but their package is out of money or they are still on the waiting list for a package? Where does the paid worker go to report this and what gets done about it?? Is this ok for anyone in our society to be living like that?

What happens when the main carer of a person becomes ill due to the stress and strain of years and years of being in the caring role? Then there are not just one but two people needing support.
Those who provide in home support services are in business. They have to contain their costs in order to keep the service going.

Things that support carers save money. We need to know how much of the federal money allocated actually goes to the client in terms of both health care and support. We need to understand how much the hidden costs are in service provision.




Rosret, I agree it is the tip of the iceburg.
Linda
11th Jan 2018
11:29am
Frankly, when I see nursing home bosses sporting huge diamond rings and wearing expensive hand tailored shirts, I just wonder what kind of service their residents receive.
Kathleen
11th Jan 2018
11:37am
Linda, do you understand how they are charging pensioners? I have asked but the question was avoided but online it looks like 17 1/2%
which would put some pensioners into further poverty.
I also looked at what the service providers are charging for individual services and was shocked to see nearly $70 per hour.
The overcharging and wasting is a bit of a concern.
At the moment we can manage with housecleaning and gardening so a package would be a waste for us anyway.
trood
11th Jan 2018
12:06pm
I have heard that it takes 6 months to get an appointment to see about getting a My Age Care package and then 12 months before you even get one.
Linda
11th Jan 2018
12:16pm
Grandma, what I think I know is this.

Each service has the option of how much they charge. That is why, I think they can't give you an answer. If you don't have a package but do receive some assistance, then each provider would offer their own charge rates. It may be that the government has set some upper limits. This way of doing things, enables some to perhaps gouge the client while others can charge less because their business plan has that built in.

The workers, the ones who actually do the jobs get rates starting a little over maybe 20 an hour and as they get experience and time in the rate goes up. The provider may treat them like independent contractors, and pay above that rate plus super or what ever the law requires in that case. if it is a gardener or someone with special skills like OT or Physio or Nursing, etc. then of course our system agrees they get more per hour for their services and the same plan applies if they are in house workers or if they are considered contractors. If the provider starts to use a person from another service it is called brokering. In this case, they charge extra because the person is brokered. So at least in our experience, an in house person would bill the package maybe 30/per hour, but a brokered person would be 40/per hour.

Every single service has their own system, and they may broker out everyone they use or may not. They can divide up the money via a rate for admin costs and a rate for case management, and other items and there is little legal impediment to predatory practices. Many of the rules are enshrined into law, written in good measure by the industry.

Our most recent experience was in regard to an issue with wound healing. Our package does not have visiting nurses on their payroll and they have to broker that service out (translates to higher hourly rate to us). What was needed at the time was a visit from a district nurse to refresh bandages and inspect the wound. But because of all the new changes around visiting nurses that option became just too hard. The rules in age care have changed and it is a challenge to keep up with it. It requires some research in order to get the right service at the right cost and that among all the other things can become too hard to do. Of late, good answers are coming from the My Aged Care Call Centre. A year ago it was not very good. They have turned this kind of care into something more like geting a mobile phone or health insurance, research and knowledge are needed and deals can change and all the rest that we have seen in those industries.
Linda
11th Jan 2018
12:24pm
trood,

There is a set process in place, first one needs an assessment, and that will indicate if one's is eligible for aged care assistance and at what level. Each level comes with a set amount and again clients do not actually receive services to that value, but instead some lesser value. After the assessment then if eligible your name goes on a list. When a package is available and your name is up on the list, then you may be contacted by a service provider who has an opening for a package.

That was our process but it may be different now.
KB
11th Jan 2018
2:46pm
Linda The government deliberately makes accessing any kind of care impossible because they do not want to pay out any form of money to people. Pensioners will least afford a decent nursing home
Tarabelle
11th Jan 2018
11:33am
Re DNR. I have done legal documentation of my wishes - Aged Care Directive - , have copies lodged on file with my doctor, and also wear medical bracelet which informs, DNR, No medical induced coma, and No life support. The same directives are stated in my will, and in Power of Attorney & Appointment of Executor information, so that everyone is fully aware of my wishes stated clearly in all of the legal documentation as above.
Puglet
11th Jan 2018
2:37pm
Tara belle I think you have taken all the steps you can. Both my parents did the same and both were resuscitated against their wishes. Paramedics will always begin CPR if they are called and then hospitals are forced to carry on. I am determined not to go into a nursing home and when I am ready I’ll end my life with a pre-arranged way.
weary
11th Jan 2018
11:34am
Regarding DNR it's mostly health professionals and their duty of care who over ride family and individuals wishes. There is no legislation that states individual wishes take precedence over Doctors and Nurses duty of care for people under their care. Weary
Tarabelle
11th Jan 2018
12:02pm
Weary, surely legal documentation etc, must stop these health care people from doing anything to you that you have clearly stated you do not want. we do have the right to refuse medical treatments.
Puglet
11th Jan 2018
2:45pm
Weary, I know that health professionals’ over-ride family and patients’ wishes because of their over-riding duty of care is to themselves not their concerns for their patients. Making half-hearted efforts to resuscitate someone absolves them from the difficult decisions that have to be made and the ever present fear of litigation. You may be surprised to know how many doctors and nurses choose suicide or death at home rather than submit to the ‘care’ of hospitals.
pedro the swift
11th Jan 2018
11:35am
The answer is quite simple. Spend all your assets while you can and then drop(or fall) off the perch. You have had the benefit of your assets while still reasonably active, nobody has to care for you, gov. doesn't have to spend money on you and socalled nursing homes don't get to rip you off,aging population is reduced. Win all round!
Kathleen
11th Jan 2018
11:40am
Suicide? Even when my father had lost most quality of life he would still cling to life. He said he would stay until he was taken. Such is the natural way we cling to life to the end.
Polly Esther
11th Jan 2018
1:29pm
I think pedro is talking tongue in cheek Grandma, having a little lend in other words. lol

11th Jan 2018
11:45am
Anybody querying why health insurance premiums rise faster than the rate of inflation should look at three overwhelming culprits - firstly our greedy blood sucking medical professionals; secondly the pharmaceutical companies they are in league with; and thirdly the manufacturers of medical equipment, mainly German and Japanese. These are the major players forcing up your costs faster than the rate of inflation. I have a degree in Health Admin, and can talk about this from first hand experience.
Maggie
11th Jan 2018
12:19pm
Yes, there are surely some greedy medical professionals BUT GPs don't make a lot of money and many of them bulk bill for long consultations, go out of their way for their patients and work long hours, so it really is not fair to lump them together in the way you have done even if you do have a degree in Health Admin. And if you get PBS meds you will see, on the box, the full cost of the med. Be grateful you don't have to pay that, and that you do not live in a country where, if you could find a handy GP, you would be lucky in some cases to find a nearby pharmacy, and if there was a pharmacy, be lucky to find the med prescribed for you.
Linda
11th Jan 2018
12:19pm
My observation is that over time, by stealth the Government has been taking us down the path of the horrid American Health Care mess. I wonder how much in political donations from these USA corps and multinational are coming into the pocket so our elected folks to fundamentally change Australia's health care. We need to be paying attention and insist this does not happen any further.
Judith
11th Jan 2018
12:20pm
I agree with you 100%. I believe that pharmaceutical and medical equipment companies have completely taken control of our health system and doctors/nurses/administrators who know what is happening and don't like it are powerless to do anything about it because of strategically placed "funding". Follow the money.
Knows-a-lot
11th Jan 2018
2:47pm
Right on, Big Al. My older brother has a Bachelor of Health Administration degree and he'd agree with you completely. My experience of medical specialists and pharmaceuticals accords with yours. And the PBS has gone up...
RayL
11th Jan 2018
11:48am
We have been with BUPA (formerly MBF) for over 40 years. Unfortunately now having a pre existing condition prevents me changing health provider. They love to take your money when you are young and fit but not once you get old.

When we moved from Queensland to Victoria our premiums jumped $30 a fortnight more. I queried BUPA and they replied that they charged Victorians more! It appears the government has sanctioned this despite our Constitution providing that a State should not be disadvantaged.

In my view, BUPA is simply a money making organisation and patients are a secondary consideration. I also believe the government is in bed with them.
BJ Moose
11th Jan 2018
12:16pm
Hi RayL - I work in health and if you have been refused cover from another health insurance provider because of a 'pre-existing' condition then make a complaint to the Health Insurance Ombudsman as this is illegal when you are transferring your existing (long-standing) health insurance cover at the same level to another provider. If you transfer and change your excess or level of cover there will be wait periods but that would apply to BUPA as well.
Triss
11th Jan 2018
1:02pm
Thanks, BJMoose, I was concerned about that if I changed health funds.
Kathleen
11th Jan 2018
1:25pm
You cannot be denied cover for a preexisting condition and you have served all waiting times as well when you transfer to the same level of cover.
We are very happy with our insurer and it costs each of us $30 per week for top hospital and extras cover. Best thing is that there is no excess for day surgery.
We are in Victoria.
Dee
11th Jan 2018
12:06pm
Nursing homes are pretty appalling. I would choose euthanasia if I could before subjecting myself to ‘care’. Most people deteriorate rapidly after admission(and there are several reasons for this) and average life expectancy is about 18 months. I used to work for a large nursing home provider.
4b2
11th Jan 2018
12:15pm
Sounds like BUPA wants Chinese profits while giving third world service and Chinese wages. No thanks BUPA I'm out.
Triss
11th Jan 2018
12:22pm
Seriously, how has BUPA the gall to ask for more fees for care homes? Weren't they accused of neglect last year leading to the death of a resident in Adelaide? The year before they were being assessed for neglect causing the death of two residents in Sydney.
BUPA is in it for profit and, aparently, it shows judging by the complaints made by individuals who have memebers of their families in BUPA care homes. Serious complaints like staffing cut so care is practically non-existant, residents not being showered or changed for days, being left in bed and the list goes on.
Triss
11th Jan 2018
12:54pm
The cost cutting and neglect of elderly in care homes is nothing short of sinister. Many care homes are getting like the old time workhouses.
Rae
12th Jan 2018
11:32am
Except they take your home and all your money unlike the workhouses which took the destitute. Our destitute are out sleeping under bridges now.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
1:20pm
Of course BUPA are going to squeeze pensioners for every cent - their governing board etc and daughters need new Maseratis....

Now I'll go read the other posts.....
Polly Esther
11th Jan 2018
1:31pm
:-)))
mogo51
11th Jan 2018
1:20pm
On the position of elderly owning high value properties, I agree that it should be taken into consideration, but not at the expense of their surviving partners, as they may have the same needs later.
bohemian
11th Jan 2018
4:31pm
Surviving partner who own an expensive house could downsize to a smaller residence, releasing some equity for aged care costs. So, should the expensive home be worth several millions before this ruling kicks in.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
7:06pm
You don't live in that market do you, bohemian?

In ten years countless houses in Sydney etc will be worth several millions....
Rae
12th Jan 2018
11:35am
Why can't aged care be based on cost as other businesses are.

I'm really glad I'm not charged at the supermarket depending on how much my home is worth or how much I earn.

It seems a bizarre way to allocate fees and charges. Almost unconstitutional.
Priscilla
11th Jan 2018
1:32pm
Bupa – a foreign health insurer that collected $6.7 billion in earnings last financial year – is telling our Government to jack up the cost of aged care for our most frail Australians. Seniors are again being ripped off by foreign owned companies. Seniors have forfeited much and worked long and hard to own their own homes now they are under siege from all walks of life who see them as an easy target. One day all these scumbags will be old too!
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
1:42pm
How much tax did they pay?
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
1:32pm
Anyway, the ex's daughter is in the homecare business and does very well, but long hours and conditions with some are appalling. If she encounters serious issues such as filth she either does as much as reasonable, but in any case she reports it back.

As for me - I continue to do my bit - the old lady on the corner (I'm a whipper snapper at 68) is laid up out of town with a broken ankle and stuff, and I've been cutting the grass on her verge so it won't be three feet high when she gets back. Just finished in fact, and the cost of a bit of petrol is nothing. Nobody knows who's been doing it except our immediate neighbours,who are both pretty disabled - I do their verge too as I go past on my ride-on, and I even go back and blast it off the footpath with the blades later.

Also I can relate well to the stresses of caring role - been doing it for years now and it can be difficult, especially i you have health problems yourself...... if I go down, we all go down.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
1:35pm
I post this often elsewhere when arguing politics etc....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmoYpJIUWhY

There's more to life than a little bit of money.... don't you know that?
musicveg
11th Jan 2018
7:53pm
Nice that you do your bit Trebor,well done, if everyone who can did a little to help others we would live in a much nicer world.
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
1:56am
It's my nature.....
Linda
12th Jan 2018
10:27am
It is great that you can see a way to help and are able to to it and are kind enough to do it as well.

I think folks are reluctant to move into an unknown neighborhood, especially when they feel close to their neighbors. I think too that often it is about peace of mind, feeling safe, and perhaps supported by the folks in the neighborhood. I agree too that is not always about money, but these other factors.

It is true that it takes ages and ages for the new measures My Aged Care implements to filter out into knowledge in the community.

Where we live, our GP knows little about it and how it works. We also only find out things about the new measures when a need arises and we stirke confusion and misinformation that seems to stream right through the community.

The government is talking all the time about our external threats to our safety, but when it comes to looking after the old folks, suddenly its all 'nothing to see here'.

I think also the tax payers should be more aware of where the allocated money goes when someone receives a home care package. Talking half or even more than half for inhouse hidden costs and services seems too high to me. I wish I knew how much it really costs the providers.

If it costs that much to deliver the services then maybe a closer look is required to see what is at play.
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
2:44pm
Maybe a not for profit.... with volunteers. Hard to do since everyone needs to earn and live...

I know it must cost a lot because the ex's daughter does it and she is rolling in money, thought the shifts are long and odd hours and days, and she is mostly dealing with mentally disabled, each having a unique problem to deal with. some of those live in terrible conditions - it was about 45 deg the other day where she is and she spent the day with a bloke who has no air con - crook as a dog the next day from maybe heat exhaustion... better to get him in the car and run around with the air con on.

Whatever she earns - she's earned.... so this is obviously a difficult issue to fully review.
AutumnOz
11th Jan 2018
1:53pm
Costs rising every year is going to until family realise they do have some responsibility to help care for their parents and other aged relatives.
In previous years it was automatic to take care of older, or disabled, members of the family. all of that went by the board once "the nuclear family" was touted by many gov't officials.
What we are seeing now is the result of not only greedy big business ripping off the elderly but also by the same greed and selfishness being shown by younger generations not having, or wanting, to take any responsibility for care of their aged relatives..
Unless a stop is put to these practices by the various government departments responsible for care of the aging this will continue and can only get worse as the years go by.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
2:33pm
... then they set about destroying the nuclear family... leaving double the number worse off......
Maggie
11th Jan 2018
2:56pm
I think there are many people who would dearly love to have their elderly parents with them and to look after them. The problem is that both partners need to work these days and would have to leave the old people alone all day long. This is OK as long as the older generation are independent enough to get out and about a bit, and to attend to their own hygiene etc. and to get something to eat.

Sadly too many people get well beyond that.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
7:11pm
I'm carer for my ex - her two sons are tradies and run long hour businesses, their wives work, and her daughter and her man both work long hours and odd shifts.....

Guess who's left? If I fall down one of them will have to take over, and put her on the cruise ship for life with the better meals etc that Mac said was the go.... still laughing.
Knows-a-lot
11th Jan 2018
2:38pm
There should be a ROYAL COMMISSION into insurance companies, who are nothing but a bunch of thieving arseholes.
Rosret
11th Jan 2018
2:48pm
We just need a government run, not for profit private fund. ....oh that's right ....we had one!
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
6:28pm
I was thinking of sending in the Royal Marines
maxchugg
16th Jan 2018
11:29am
I have to agree.
We have been members of BUPA (formerly MBF) for over 50 years when they were more than happy to take our money because we were low risk.
Recently I was considering changing insurers because my premiums are too high and I was wanting information from BUPA to assist with my decision making. My impression was that they would be more than happy for me to leave them now that it is possible that they could begin to make losses on my premiums after decades of massive profits.
The only reason to have private insurance these days is that when treatment is needed it can be accessed promptly. I needed cataract surgery to assist with the onset of glaucoma symptoms and it was over within a few weeks. A friend, who had insurance until he became a pensioner, waited two years for the first eye to be treated and almost as long for the second eye.
Despite the politics of envy requiring the government to reduce the concessions for pensioners who have private health insurance, these concessions should increase until prompt treatment for serious illness is readily available for everyone.
Also, the expression "elective surgery" should be scrapped. How can surgery to relieve pain, restore eyesight, or stop the progression of diseases such as cancer be sensibly described as elective.
Mac
11th Jan 2018
2:46pm
Would not put a dog in BUPA aged care after the way BUPA Croydon (Vic) treated my Mother-in-law. No drinks on hot days so shy dehydrated. Left in soiled nappies. Rings stolen off her fingers (her room mate had $200 in cash stolen the first night she was in there). My wife was constantly fighting with Management to get even the basics for her mum. Unfortunately moving mum-in-law to a more suitable facility would have been too unsettling due to her dementia. Could not convince me to use BUPA even if it was free... They are all about the money!!!!!
CoogeeGuy
11th Jan 2018
2:46pm
Health Insurance companies do not pay ANYTHING towards Aged Care from my recent experience. So why are we listening to these greedy Insurance Companies such as BUPA? AS of Nov 2017 my mother sold her house for $350,000, and to go into an Aged Care Facility she had to pay a $ 441,000.00 Refundable Accomodation Deposit, and she had to have $47,000.00 in a savings account to prove she could pay for her continued care. We (her children) had to pay the difference of $33,000 as she had insufficient funds to pay for the Aged Care Room. I suggest a whole lot of other people would be a lot worse off than my mother, and the Government would need to contribute an amount for those people. But we received NO SUPPORT. From my own perspective, I have paid high taxes all my life, and paid into the top private health insurance scheme since I commenced working in 1977. So at this stage of my life, it would be discriminative and very unfair, should the rules now change, and expect me, as a pensioner, to now pay more than any other member within the community, just because I got old. It sickens me just reading the above article.
rob101
11th Jan 2018
3:06pm
And Aged Care Companies can take 84% of the persons Pension PLUS they get money from the Govt.for every person they accommodate!
Cosmo
11th Jan 2018
3:17pm
Bupa a foreign company came into this country to make money and send it back out of the country, there was no other reason. Now they are here they clearly want to make more money and that still won’t be enough. If they don't like the financial environment here they should not have come in the first place. That said this is just another example of penalising hard working successful Australians. If you have worked hard all your life and paid much of it in tax, saved and invested what’s left you get nothing when your regular income ceases. Even clubs and private companies discriminate against retirees who are dis-qualified from the many pension fringe benefits for working too hard. This is just another example by another foreign company.
A much better way of resolving the problem would be to have a far reaching government investigation into the efficiency of both the whole medical system, especially private hospitals and the nursing home sectors.
An example: I need to have a minor procedure which the specialist tells me will require no anaesthetic, will take only a few minutes but will be undertaken at the local private hospital. I have already paid the specialist but Ramsay Health Care is charging $1,082 for the few minutes use of a bed! It’s not about specialist care because if anything goes wrong they send you to the public hospital to fix it. The public hospital then asks for your private health details to charge them for public hospital treatment (my local public hospital says it earns $5 million a year by this practice) and we then wonder why the health bill keeps going up and private health insurance is unaffordable for so many. Bupa is part of this inefficient money-go round!
Mac
11th Jan 2018
3:29pm
I've told my kids to put me on a cruise ship full time, rather than in aged care. It is cheaper & the food is much better.
VeryCaringBigBear
11th Jan 2018
3:52pm
You are right the food is terrible in aged care. It's all worked out by a dietician for certain number of calories with the cheapest foods possible.
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
4:27pm
Brilliant, Mac - I'll suggest that to the ex who is mumbling about care facilities.
Kaz
12th Jan 2018
11:37am
A much better option. They have activities, doctors, cleaning, food. Why not?!
Mossy
11th Jan 2018
3:30pm
They are way too expensive anyway but no matter what would never join them now
chrissie
11th Jan 2018
4:14pm
I volunteer at an Aged Care Facility and on the surface it appears to be well run. Its expensive if you have means but if not they take most of their pension as well as a lesser amount at commencement.
We are hoping to stay in my own home til Its too much trouble for us, but will get people in to do jobs we will be unable to do, mainly the garden.
So far we are very healthy and have private insurance, but we only need to trip over and break something and thats it.
I really dont think its our childrens responsibility to look after us as really they didnt ask to be born. Unfortunately we dont have the extended family ethic which is prevalent in most of Europe.
Sundays
11th Jan 2018
4:17pm
My parents insisted on staying in their own home. They were pretty good but had mobility issues. It was a lot cheaper to get them a private cleaner, gardener and meals on wheels than the figures I’ve seen with my aged care. Eventually, Mum became sick but waited over 3 months in hospital for a bed to become available in a nursing home. The hospital wouldn’t let her come home as she needed high care but had no power to speed up things up. Lots of forms to complete and Centrelink couldn’t tell us how much it would cost. My father at 89 was very stressed and thought the costs might bankrupt him. The Nursing home took her for 4 weeks on the respite rate but she passed in that time sadly. After that awful experience my widowed sister moved in and looked after my father. Having seen the issues first hand there has to be a better way!
TREBOR
11th Jan 2018
4:22pm
Bump Up Pensioners Assessed contribution....
Pamiea
11th Jan 2018
4:39pm
Tell the Poms to stick their noses out of our aged care practises and be thankful that so many Ozzies use BUPA!!
OnlyGenuineRainey
11th Jan 2018
7:23pm
Here we go again. Attack anyone who worked hard and acquired a few modest assets. It really makes no sense to have anything much in retirement. The greedy vultures are out to get every last cent!
Knows-a-lot
13th Jan 2018
9:26am
Scumbag politicians and bureaucrats also attack the disability sector. I worked extremely hard - three jobs, at one time - when I was working (briefly, alas) and saved as best I could. Now I'm on the DSP. Bloody Centrelink and their bureaucrats expect one to have next to nothing before they'll help.
musicveg
11th Jan 2018
8:00pm
Yet again another money grab. When no one will be able to afford health insurance and aged care, then how will they make their trillions to pay their shareholders. Isn't there an Australian owned health insurance company and aged care facility? I also heard there are not for profit aged care facilities run by Anglican care? Is that right?
Rae
12th Jan 2018
11:47am
When that happens they'll move on to China or India or wherever the next lot of money and wealth is waiting to be extracted.
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
2:46pm
The ex has a cousin in South Australia who is a board member on a Christian live-in aged care facility - no pay and nobody is ripped off.
Not Senile Yet!
11th Jan 2018
10:58pm
Anything Bupa or for that matter The Govt! say is just propaganda crap!
Flogging a dead horse till it can't get up!
It's all about show me the money for Bupa!
And it's all about Not paying any more for the Govt.
Next the compulsory Death Pil at 80 reduced gradually to 70 if you cannot pass a health check!
Save the Govt. and Bupa a fortune! lol
OnlyGenuineRainey
12th Jan 2018
7:07am
Nobody I care about is ever going to a Bupa Home - least of all me. But sometime soon this madness of thinking retirees who worked hard and lived responsibly are sitting targets for every greedy organization, and should pay to subsidize anyone who didn't bother to plan ahead has to stop. If it doesn't, people will simply stop saving for retirement, and superannuation will never be much for the average worker.
OnlyGenuineRainey
12th Jan 2018
7:23am
There was a time when the population recognized that taxpayers had certain obligations - to support the sick, the aged, the disabled, and some otherwise disadvantaged. Back then, taxes were much higher, far fewer evaded or avoided, and the world was a far happier place. In Japan, it's an honour and a privilege to pay tax. It's recognized as the price of living in a healthy society in which you enjoy a great many benefits. Similarly, in Scandinavian countries - which are often said to be the happiest in the world - taxes are high, avoidance is low, and social services and welfare are very generous. Result: healthy, happy society. People don't have to live in fear of sickness, accident or job loss or of getting old. How nice would it be never to have to worry?
In Australia, taxing is considered sinful and we applaud those who avoid it (well, except maybe the multinational corporations who have recently come into the limelight, but the government's solution to that problem is to give them a $65 billion reward!). And the more the government rants about having to lower taxes and the more they hand out in concessions to people who have no need of them, the more miserable the society seems to become. And interestingly, the biggest whingers are those who ''play the game'' to avoid paying their fair share. Maybe if we changed to the Japanese or Scandinavian way - raising taxes, declaring them a cost of keeping society healthy, increasing welfare and social services to remove poverty and fear (and reduce crime, addiction, family breakups, and mental illness), people would learn to value what is important in a society and be proud and happy that they were contributing fairly to making the world a better place for all?

Oh, sorry Bonny and OG. It's the ''welfare mentality'' that's the problem, not tax avoidance. Well if we stopped persecuting people for working hard and saving well, but NOT achieving sufficient wealth to not need welfare or social services, we might end the welfare mentality. Personally, I've never had the mentality, but I'm fast thinking I should develop it. It seems really dumb to work hard and live frugally for 5 decades only to be told I need to give up my home in old age so someone who cruised the world and partied or played pokies can have free aged care. Yes, it is useful after I die. I want my children and grandchildren to have it. Why the hell would I work for 5 decades to give it to strangers who were probably far better able than me to pay their own way, if only they'd bothered.
Kaz
12th Jan 2018
11:31am
Tax avoidance is a problem. Those who reduce tax or pay as little as possible but still use infrastructure and services etc are bludging. What is wrong with those who don’t want to contribute to a good social service system? They are greedy and lack kindness.
musicveg
12th Jan 2018
1:41pm
Agree Rainey and Kaz, the tax avoidance is killing this country and creating so much suffering. Greed is the problem all around the world, those who make a lot of money are revered yet those who work for nothing to help others as in volunteers/carers are basically ignored.
Knows-a-lot
12th Jan 2018
5:49pm
Rainey is excessively verbose.
maxchugg
16th Jan 2018
11:43am
Knows-a-lot, verbose he may be, but he's also right.
As he has indicated, a major flaw in our system these days is that welfare, originally intended as a safety net to be used in emergencies is now considered to be a right, with no consideration for the rights of people who earn money to keep it.
On the other side, corporations who avoid paying for the facilities they use and take for granted, including police and defence, are equally culpable as the welfare cheats.
Kaz
12th Jan 2018
11:24am
Perhaps smokers and heavy drinkers should pay more...
Kaz
12th Jan 2018
12:06pm
...for health care but really, aged care is necessary and should be equitable. Very complicated.
rob101
12th Jan 2018
1:03pm
All Aged Care Facilities must keep 10% of their Rooms for people who have no Assets.It costs them 84% of their Pension and the Govt pays $136 per day to the Facility!
rob101
12th Jan 2018
2:05pm
2 out of 3 Major companies pay little or no Tax! How about the Govt. making them Pay!
Cosmo
12th Jan 2018
2:30pm
Rainey, I'm 100% with you! When will people realise that they are likely to live in retirement for as long as they worked and they need to save and invest a substantial part of what they earned for their old age. If we continue to run the country on the basis of penalising hard work, success and providing for yourself, we will end up with failure and that's where we are heading at the moment!
TREBOR
12th Jan 2018
2:51pm
I said many years ago that I was happy to pay tax.. in return for a pittance of 25% of my income (approximately), I got to own warships, tanks, roads, everything .. now some of that has been sold off and my taxes no longer own them.... and I pay double....

Maybe the government should forget about taxes and become a full corporation and get by on shares....
JoJozep
12th Jan 2018
5:09pm
Is Bupa led by demented bean counters? Why target the poor bastard who has been with Bupa since inception? Is it to make more profit? is there no limit to their greed?

Well after being faithfully with Bupa for a lifetime, anything that will increase our premium from $440 per month will not be accepted. Tell the bastards we will not tolerate this exploitation. Where is the LNP telling us this will not happen? You crawling bastards!
Blossom
12th Jan 2018
9:12pm
"high care" in nursing homes is already higher than a full pension. Extra Income is taken into consideration. You have 2 years to sell a family home. If they know about other investments etc. they increase their daily rates. This applies to all Aged Care "high care" not just Bupa including those that are supposedly non-profit.
Blossom
12th Jan 2018
9:35pm
How manyh people have noticed that when you contact aged care facilities to see if they have a bed available you have to make an appt. to visit and be shown through the facility. I did have a look at one owned by Bupa but it was too far from home and not near a bus route than ran any later than about 7.30pm on week nights. One thing in its favour was the choice of meals on the menu which is posted on a blackboard. However, the one I visited had mainly agency staff all the time, and often not the same ones.
Mimi
13th Jan 2018
10:11am
There are websites that show vacancies.
JoJozep
13th Jan 2018
9:00am
Like a Head Hospital Surgeon once said "who is the person responsible for this mess?"

This statement automatically excludes the Head Surgeon himself from blame, and is a powerful bullying tactic. I remember another famous one from my school days-: "Don't kill your wife with work, let electricity do it".

I mentioned these statements to illustrate the blame game going on, the more you shift blame on others, the less visible you become. Politicians are masters of this strategy.

Why has no one given much thought to the real reasons we are now faced with increasing aged people, the majority of whom can no longer look after themselves. Here are some.

1. After WW2, returning soldiers did what they missed out on for five years - had sex and begat children enmass. (The baby Boomers).
2. The generation before the baby boomers and the baby boomers themselves are now living longer.
3. Governments hate long term planning as there is often little short term gain and in election years, they often get kicked out if they push a sensible but costly policy.
3. It's called greed or live life for now.
4. Young healthy people don't understand what the oldies go through. Not till they themselves start to wear out.
5. Politicians are generally below pension age and when required, their pension is better than I could earn when working. This means they have little concept of what doing it tough means. Here is an example: We used to enjoy having a salad with avocado once a week. Now we find we can't readily afford just one (recent price $5.00 each at IGA) and when we do lash out, we share one between us.
6. The population is aging. Contrary to big mouth Dutton's strategy, we need more young people to come as soon as possible to lower the proportion of old to young. Thus we need more children per couple and more immigration of younger people.
7. The proportion of working people in the general population is diminishing. Hence less taxes and less money to go around. Also, less jobs means more "welfare" to sustain the rest and the unemployed. Where is the LNP about creating new jobs? They forget they are the party in power at the moment and I don't mean jobs to just replace those lost to overseas businesses.

So when will someone in and out of politics rise up and tackle these issues head on ? Not very likely, it's too hard and push the problem out of mind for next time as a short term solution, whatever that means.

This is what is slowly dividing our nation. With a land mass just a little smaller than the USA, how is we can only support 1/10 of their population? So we spend Billions on defence as we can feel the heat and glare from far more populous countries to our north.

Who will step in and deliver us from this dilemma.
musicveg
13th Jan 2018
2:24pm
Check out the Sustainable Australia Party, they point out we do not need an increase in population, quite the opposite. They also have policies about the other things you mentioned.
Maggie
13th Jan 2018
3:55pm
It seems to me that climate change has already hit this amazing country with a vengeance. There have been predictions about population movement on a large scale to escape the increasing heat - which looks as though Victoria's population could expand at an alarming rate. Plants do not grow when it's too hot, however much water there is, so our food supply will be disrupted too. There will not be enough water for the population as it is now without more desalination plants.

I think that what we need is a universal tax, research and investment into giving us better quality of life without extending our years, and an option to end our lives quickly, painlessly and when we so wish it to happen. With safeguards of course. Note please: I said option. There will be plenty voices (usually young and with the teachings of their religions) raised against that. And people have the right to live out their natural lives if that is what they want.

Note please: I am only too aware of all the arguments about older people being coerced to die. Having said that, NO system is ever perfect and I am quite sure that money grubbing rellies are hanging about and making it quite clear to their "loved" ones that they cannot wait for them to get out of the way right now. And sadly, I feel pretty sure that some unwanted people are getting out of the way by all sorts of horrible means.
OnlyGenuineRainey
14th Jan 2018
9:32am
A loved one died recently - a slow and very painful death - because she was tormented by a greedy money-grubbing rellie (her own child) who couldn't wait for an inheritance. The woman died of a broken heart. She supported euthanasia and wanted to be allowed to die sooner. She would have probably preferred to be killed by the money-grubber than left to die slowly and in pain. I don't think banning the right to a compassionate death is any protection at all against money-grubbing rellies. They will still kill you. You'll just suffer more.
*Loloften*
21st Jan 2018
2:48am
We family had to sell our widowed Mum's Unit to pay the 6++figure$ sum bond for her Retirement Home + almost $2,000+/mth thereafter even tho' was frail (not disabled apart from needing a Walker) & ate like a sparrow. I happily looked after her for 2+yrs prior whenever needed, didn't want to move in with me as was always very independent - no recognition of saving Govm't many $$$$s & didn't want it. I do believe that it's sad many children these days appear to not have enough time to look after a widowed elderly parent' til it's no longer possible however, most of children both now need to work to save/buy their own home - can't do it as most not home for many hrs & often totes "stuffed" when back home re their own children & jobs. Wondering why the Fred Hollows Foundation only needs a $25 donation, to which I've contributed, to correct 3rd world country' vision & if we need it it's approx $10,000 & very long wait if don't have ever ridiculously increasing Private Hosp/Health Insurance?
marhold
23rd Jan 2018
1:41pm
Why should those who have not had to claim on their health insurance pay more! No loyalty programs, no reduced premiums been with a provider since starting work back in early '70's
Considering dropping out and putting premiums in the bank instead


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