Australians believe the system is rigged against ordinary people

Australians believe a strong leader is needed to take back the country.

Australians believe the system is rigged against ordinary people

The latest Ipsos survey results reveal that Australians believe the system favours the wealthy at the expense of ordinary people and that a strong leader is needed to take back the country.

The global survey of 16,069 adults from 22 countries revealed widespread distrust of politicians and the system in general, with 68 per cent of Australians believing that “the economy is rigged to the advantage of the rich and powerful” and 61 per cent saying that “traditional parties and politicians don't care about people like me”.

“[In Australia] the increase of support for Pauline Hanson and her party in the previous election certainly supports that,” said Ipsos Social Research Institute Director David Elliott.

Politicians are not the only group of people that Australians distrust, as proven by the 60 per cent of respondents who said that “experts in this country don’t understand the lives of people like me”.

While the research reveals that Australians believe in the system itself, the general consensus is that politicians and experts are working against the best interests of ordinary Australians, or don’t understand their situation. However, 38 per cent of Australians believe that “my generation will have had a worse life than my parents’ generation”, which is far below the global average of 43 per cent. Furthermore, 37 per cent of people believe that “this country needs to take more steps to protect itself from today’s world”.

Read more at theage.com.au

RELATED ARTICLES
    Opinion: Ordinary Australians deserve a fair go

    The ordinary Australian is all too happy to pay taxes to support and enhance this great country, but how can anyone have trust in a system where some of the largest companies in the world pay little to no tax and wealthy Australians are caught shifting money offshore to avoid tax?

    The Panama Papers and a recent Federal Government case against Google are two prime examples of high net worth individuals and large corporations making money from our economy without paying a fair share. The problem seems to have become so bad that 61 per cent of Ipsos survey respondents believe that the traditional parties and politicians don’t even care about people.

    All any one person can ask for in life is a fair go. Even this seems too much to ask at this stage of the political cycle.

    What do you think? Are you receiving a fair go? Is the current Federal Government putting in place the correct measures to improve your situation? Is Malcolm Turnbull the right leader to ‘take back the country’? Who could you see being that leader?





    COMMENTS

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    19th Jan 2017
    10:57am
    We don't need a poll to tell us that big business and wealthy people are avoiding tax using legal loopholes, it has been going on for years under whichever party is in government. We don't need a poll to tell us that our politicians are gutless and are putting party donations before the changes needed to our lax tax laws.

    This link will reveal who paid how much and to whom. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/political-donations-parties-data-search/7129064
    MICK
    19th Jan 2017
    1:26pm
    Our politicians may be gutless but they are also OWNED. The rich own this government and Labor is too frightened to go for it. We all remember what happened when Whitlam did: he was disposed of, illegal or not.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jan 2017
    1:00am
    Not gutless at all - they are as brave as when it comes to holding near absolute power over legislation and policy, and by extension, over the common man and woman....

    Many a hero and heroine assumes the lofty robes of ideology and policy as a result..... and we mere mortals look on in awe at what WE, the voting public... have wrought....

    (to paraphrase Shakespeare) they do bestride this world like a mighty Colossus, and we mere mortals can but shelter in their shadow.....

    I say hang the lot and start again... (argh, argh)... or at least keel haul them.... one at a time....
    vinradio
    19th Jan 2017
    11:15am
    The problem is who is the alternative?
    MICK
    19th Jan 2017
    1:28pm
    Independents. They have no allegiance to any master and those who are bought out can quickly be disposed of.
    Farside
    19th Jan 2017
    3:44pm
    I favour increasing terms to maximum of four years in the lower house and six years in the upper house with politicians not being elected for more than two consecutive terms.

    Politicians should know they will not receive any benefits more than ordinary citizens after they leave parliament. Politicians who fail to complete their terms for reasons other than medical or compassionate should lose all accumulated and pro-rata long term entitlements.

    All donations and receipts should be declared to the public register within 60 days of receipt.

    An oversight committee, including public representation selected from jury pools, should be convened quarterly to review payments to politicians for previous quarter.

    These changes dramatically level the playing field to enable honest party hacks, independents and special interest parties to be elected, represent their constituencies and influence the government of the day.
    TREBOR
    19th Jan 2017
    10:08pm
    Good thinking, Farside.....
    floss
    19th Jan 2017
    11:41am
    The Labor party in the past looked after working people and the retired but they have lost their way. We have never had a fair go from the Libs but we expect that.Greed is good for the Libs that is the way it will always be.
    MICK
    19th Jan 2017
    1:28pm
    Vent your feelings with Labor politicians. That is the way to force them to look after voters again.
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    2:49pm
    Are you serious MICK? Labor policy is decided at the Labor Party Conference where the votes are dominated by unions. The decisions are binding on ALL members of the parliamentary wing of Labor and a member cannot cross the floor on any vote unless they wish to be expelled from the party. If it ain't policy, your local member can't do anything to help. The Libs are getting just as bad, parachuting applicants in and branch stacking but at least they are still allowed to cross the floor and remain in the party.
    TREBOR
    19th Jan 2017
    3:22pm
    Labor is too tied up in re-vamping our democracy so as to incorporate proportional representation... such lofty international socialist ideals leave little room for looking after the ordinary person in the street - or soon to be in the street the way things are going.

    That and parachuting in party pets is one reason I don't vote for Labor.
    crazypete
    19th Jan 2017
    4:02pm
    Liberals and Labor are only out for themselves now days all they want is the low income earners and pensioners money, so until we get things up and running properly it will stay the same. The wealthy do not care because they know that they are safe as they can move their money out of Australia and the Government are behind them as they know that they can just sit back and laugh while they are getting their money thinking that we are all stupid and to scare to do anything about it. Like in South Australia they have been proving they they can waste more money building things that are no good and idiot that likes closing things down so that they can get more money but put peoples health and lives in danger.
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    4:20pm
    I suppose that we are overlooking one important part of all this; there is about 40% of safe seats in Australia for Labor and about 40% of safe seats in Australia for the Coalition. That means that we are all arguing one way or another over about 20% of the remaining seats which actually get probably 90% of pork barrelling money.
    dougie
    19th Jan 2017
    4:48pm
    I know that it is a ridiculous thought but why not ban all political donations to all political parties from all avenues ie. big business - unions - financial backers etc. Make the pollies go out an sell raffle tickets etc and maybe rely on the results that they achieve in the parliament to get them reelected. most would give up because it mean't work others because they would not know how to raise money this way and then the majority who remained may be those who would work for the community. Cover the trough and keep the noses out!
    Stupid Stupid but just a suggestion.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jan 2017
    1:04am
    Yes, dougie - let them get into the old FJ - as the Prez of the Australian Republican Movement does (he's stayed at my place on his whistle stop tours), and run around enlisting the common herd at public meetings where they are held up to the scrutiny and interrogation of the voting public....

    Let them EARN their place in Parliament from that public and not from their farken party.....

    THAT, my son, is what is all supposed to be about.....
    TREBOR
    22nd Jan 2017
    1:05am
    Actually he couldn't afford a beer and I bought him one or two out of my last fifty.....
    Tarabelle
    19th Jan 2017
    11:49am
    Of course nothing is done to close loop holes through which big business get away with not paying tax. Neither party is going to close these holes. They know, that should they do so, all political donations from the big end of town will cease. I believe they should cease. No body - especially business pays out large sums of money for NO RETURN. Each time a party accepts a donation, another i.o.u. is quietly written. Now when it comes to the little guy in the street, they will do anything to get their money, even if it is a silly little amount that costs more to recover than they get in the end. Can you imagine what would happen if these big business tax dodgers received the type of letter being issued to ordinary Australians at the moment? The govt would loose a whole bucket load of donations to their political party. So, big business is a NO GO ZONE when trying to recoup monies owed TO THE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE.
    Batara
    19th Jan 2017
    1:03pm
    Tarabelle, I agree with you, but as I see it the problem goes much deeper. There is a widespread culture in the business word that avoiding tax is a legitimate objective in business. See for example Donald Trump's pride in minimizing what he has paid. I have worked in major corporations and I know the attitude only too well.
    Trying to change the culture is probably too much to hope for. This is a world wide problem, not just an issue in Oz. The only thing we can do is enforce our laws and pass legislation to plug the loopholes.
    The neocons will all gnash their teeth and roll on the floor spitting their dummy because they think business will desert Oz. My view is that if there is money to be made the capitalists will swarm in like blowflies around a cow pat.
    Political donations could be part of it, but I think neocon capitalist lack of morality is the most challenging issue.
    MICK
    19th Jan 2017
    1:31pm
    Good observation Tarabelle.
    The way forward is the force both sides of politics to draft (foolproof) legislation which makes it illegal to accept donations (in or after politics) both personally or to companies and trusts, including family members. On the other side put in fines of $10 million for business who think they will try it on anyway.
    KSS
    19th Jan 2017
    1:49pm
    Batara, tax minimisation is NOT a crime. If it were there would be virtually no-one left in Australia outside prisons for all those 'ordinary Australians' incarcerated for making claims on their personal tax returns using the current legislation to minimise the required tax payable. You cannot be punished for complying with the legislation.

    Tax avoidance is the crime and there are ordinary Australians who make false claims on their personal tax returns each year too to AVOID paying their fair share of tax.
    Tom Tank
    19th Jan 2017
    2:00pm
    The problem KSS is that the law has been tailored to suit the top end to town to minimise their tax payable.
    The tax laws are the problem and combined with the precedent created by Garfield Barwick in making literal interpretations of each law rather than the intent of the law.
    Instead of fixing those laws succeeding governments, and particularly right wing ones, concentrate of reducing spending to help the poor in order to provide even great tax breaks for business. This is happening now under the current government.
    It is actions like that that have resulted in Trump being elected and in Brexit. The ordinary person has had enough of being ignored by the elites in power, right and left wing.
    FrankC
    19th Jan 2017
    2:03pm
    Why do these political parties need donations in the first place. They are in place to govern and give every person a 'fair go' so that they can live decent lives. But of course, it is easier to sit on their fat arses and let the cash roll in , ---for whose benefit, ? ! And of course the government is gutless to try and stop all these overseas businesses like Zara, H&M, and the little Japanese clothing company, with more to follow, coming into a "soft touch" country, and then sending all their profits offshore, and how much tax will they be paying?--probably bugger all, like Google, etc.
    TREBOR
    19th Jan 2017
    3:10pm
    KSS - some things which are wrong about the current tax minimisation schemes need to be adjusted by legislation - same as the discussion of politician remuneration and conditions - if it's wrong - fix it.

    Batara - I've long stated that changing the rules on tax to prevent vanishing billions will only drive out the bad eggs anyway - plenty of others will come in and abide by the rules to take up their market share. Saying business will abandon Oz if they are forced to pay their way is a scare campaign pure and simple.
    TREBOR
    19th Jan 2017
    3:12pm
    BTW - Garfie was a rellie but that doesn't mean we see eye to eye.
    floss
    19th Jan 2017
    12:07pm
    Great post Tarabelle

    19th Jan 2017
    1:26pm
    Turnbull ran for PM, I believe, because his domineering wife wanted him to. He is a very weak man, and definitely not a leader. He proved that on the night of his election when the results were very close. What did he do? He hid in his darkened house afraid of defeat, until the MEDIA flushed him out. Since then he has confirmed his weakness with not doing ONE positive thing for this country since he became the PM. He has been dropping the ball like he did with the NBN since being in office. His gross inability to be a leader has been shown on a monthly, if not weekly, basis with his passive permissiveness to thief by his party members with their family, private, and personal expenditures of taxpayers' money for family holidays, house hunting ventures, polo and football trips and admissions, etc, etc. Ley resigned not only because she was caught for multiple indiscretions, but also because she was not a member of the inner circles (either left or right), so was RIGHTFULLY DISMISSED via her "resignation". This still leaves many people ignored for their questionable spendthrift ways - Cormann, Bishop, Ciobo, to name a few, and Hunt gets yet another portfolio after spending $20,000+ of taxpayers' money on 12 FAMILY VACATIONS over the past 10 years!!! IF there have been any noteworthy worthwhile-for-country policies under Talkbull's "leadership" (HA!) I would give credit, but what has there been? NOTHING, that's what! You cannot please everyone, that is for sure, but he is pleasing only his political mates by turning a blind eye to thief and distrust and his wealthy party contributors by taking away from retirees and Age Pensioners who have planned and saved in order to make up for money wasted by his selfish and financially inept and incompetent government while they reap huge salaries and benefits and do NOTHING! The Centrelink cash grab and the ATO payback stunts are two more follies by Turncoat and his flunkies in order to fill the ever-growing hole in the Treasury's pocket due to graft and theft due to the absence of checks and balances of Turnbull's liassez faire (asleep) leadership style. The lack of fairness of this government to those they are robbing with their haphazard legislation with it's absence of grandfathering clauses and lead time for those being filched to get their finances in order is a travesty of democratic government, as well! This still wonderful country is being flushed down the toilet because of weak and incompetent leadership while we stand by and see nothing being done to stem the open slather. Thank God for the likes of Hansen, Xenophon, Wilkie, Hinch, Lambie, etc and their conscientious political acumen, honesty and LOVE for this country or it would become a dictatorship.
    MICK
    19th Jan 2017
    1:37pm
    All true Eddie but all of us need to see the bigger picture: Abbott and Turnbull were both simply the mouthpiece of faceless people pulling the strings. The proof in this is basic: THE MONEY TRAIL. Be it multinationals who are not required to pay tax or the rich with their offshore tax shelters the money trail leads to the wealthy. These are the masters and the rest of us are just fodder for these people.
    Things will only change once the rich man's Party is thrown out and left out in the cold for decades. Watch the wealthy twitch and try every dirty trick in and out of the book if that happens including taking their money out of the country.
    We need proper government but I am not sure that ordinary voters have it in them to disbelieve the lies and grooming which often permeates through what is laughingly called 'The Free Press'.
    KSS
    19th Jan 2017
    1:53pm
    Play fair Fast Eddie.

    I am guessing that you have never met or associated with Mrs Turnbull nor have you intimate knowledge of their marriage. Therefore labelling Mrs Turnbull 'domineering' is gratuitous at best.

    And when you talk about '12 family holidays' at least be honest and call it 12 family flights given that Mr Hunt paid all other costs including hotels rooms and activities not the taxpayer.
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    2:56pm
    KSS, you are only nit-picking and are one of those who refuses to face the truth about what is being done to this country by the government. If the future of Australia was left up to blind, apathetic people like you we would all face a VERY BLEAK FUTURE! God help us!
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    3:06pm
    Whilst the part of your post about donations has merit Fast Eddie, you have not suggested how to stop donations. Even if you were able to stop cash being handed to a party, how do you stop a group of businesses or a union advertising on TV or the press with a message either exhorting a vote for a party or dumping on a rival.

    And as KSS asks, play fair. You have mentioned some government members who have their snouts in the trough and I think a balance of opposition members also feeding from the same trough should be mentioned. I'll help by mentioning just one small instance; the amount spent on family travel for the 6 months ended June 2016 by Shorten: $55,531.18. It was approved the same as those you mentioned but has it passed the "pub test"?
    Aussie
    19th Jan 2017
    4:32pm
    Lets concentrate on the politicians and leave their families alone ....Fast Eddie ...how about if I call names to your wife ??? How fair that will be ... and how will you feel ....insulted ???? The families are not responsible for there acctions
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    4:53pm
    Tell me where I have called her a "name", oh bright one.
    KSS
    19th Jan 2017
    7:32pm
    Fast Eddie you have called ME names and I quote 'blind apathetic people like you'. Given you have never met me you do not know whether I am blind. As for being apathetic, you have no idea whether I am or not.

    Just because I refuse to be drawn into the childish, puerile name calling so loved by you and others on this site, because I object to irrelevant and hurtful, insulting personal comments and because I also ask for balance in argument, I am regularly insulted and called various names by you and others.

    Have your say by all means and I will have mine; just put a lid on the vitriolic and abusive commentary about people you know nothing about.
    KSS
    19th Jan 2017
    7:32pm
    Fast Eddie you have called ME names and I quote 'blind apathetic people like you'. Given you have never met me you do not know whether I am blind. As for being apathetic, you have no idea whether I am or not.

    Just because I refuse to be drawn into the childish, puerile name calling so loved by you and others on this site, because I object to irrelevant and hurtful, insulting personal comments and because I also ask for balance in argument, I am regularly insulted and called various names by you and others.

    Have your say by all means and I will have mine; just put a lid on the vitriolic and abusive commentary about people you know nothing about.
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    8:00pm
    KSS, grow up, old boy. If you can't take the heat back from your previous statements get out of the kitchen. Simple. See ya.
    KSS
    20th Jan 2017
    9:38pm
    Pull your head in Fast Eddie. You are nothing but a self opinionated bully. Simple. See ya
    TREBOR
    21st Jan 2017
    9:29pm
    Gentlemen.. gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
    seedub
    19th Jan 2017
    1:34pm
    I cannot remember when Australia lost its direction but it is sometime post world war 2. We had a young vibrant country that looked upon difficulties as challenges to be beaten. Fair go really meant what it described and all was well with most of our citizens. The main challenge then, socially was to help aboriginals integrate into the community and in this we have failed.
    Minor successes do not meet the lofty objectives we set for the first peoples of our land and this should still be placed on a higher pedestal than another myth particularly that which continues to insist that we have the best multi cultural program in the world. If that is so then god help what the worst is. The fact is we have not been able to understand the huge cultural gaps between the early caretakers of our land and the European influence we have exerted since colonisation.
    Any new leader who sees and understands that a lot of us place multi culturalism way down on the chain of imperatives for our country will then be able to address the real problems.
    Lookfar
    22nd Jan 2017
    12:22pm
    Very good thoughts, Seedub, and interesting to compare Australia to America, Obviously America has failed as a Democracy because it's appointment of the members of the Supreme Court is in the hands of the political parties, so it has not been able to fulfill that extremely necessary divide, and with Australia, the rise of Political Parties has invalidated, significantly, the Australian constitution, such as it is, one has to think, that at those times, - forming of constitutions, the individuals involved were aware of the existence of groups of people with certain points of view, so rather than exclude that element they made no defence from it, probably because they were from the dominant point of view themseves, and were just human, after all.
    Similiar lacks of foresight also occurred in the American constitution, although it had much grander ideals, but in the end the 2 party system came and bit all of us, - on both sides of the Pacific.
    Perhaps it is time in the USA and Australia to change our constitutions, perhaps politicians should not be paid, or not much, and must not be a member of a particular party, and it should not be politicians that make decisions about the economy, but representatives from the various industries, agreeing which industries need economic stimulus to bring the price of that product area down.
    Annd Multiculturalism should be associated with freedom, on all sides.
    musicveg
    22nd Jan 2017
    1:19pm
    Lookfar, what do you mean by representatives from various industries running the country, it already is run by mining corporations and big multi-national companies, that is the problem.
    Davo
    19th Jan 2017
    1:40pm
    Very good post Fast Eddie and very true
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    1:48pm
    Thanks, Davo. I could have gone on longer, but the thought of what is happening to this wonderful country is bad enough and putting it in typed words is even more depressing. There will be another "instalment" after I perk up a bit.
    Janran
    21st Jan 2017
    3:07pm
    I thought what you said was very spot on, Fast Eddie, but you diminished your insights by taking a swipe at Lucy. While I'm no fan of either her or her husband, you are only giving people who disagree with your political comments, an excuse to attack you and distract the debate away from your worthwhile comments.

    I agree that it's heart breaking to see our unique, wonderful country being sucked into the rat race global vortex of blandness we call western democracy.

    And while I despise Abbott for winning government in such a sleazy way, similar to Trump, I'm very disappointed in how useless Turnbull has turned out to be. If he had the courage and character to stand up to the far-righters, he might have risen up to become a leader worthy of the name. But he sold his soul to the dark side.
    cdbstock
    19th Jan 2017
    1:55pm
    Our tax system is both unfair & complex.
    A 'Transaction Tax' system would overcome this:
    TRANSACTION TAX
    INTRODUCTION
    1. The current federal tax system is far too complex
    2. The ever increasing amount spent for online purchase less than $1000 per item results in ever decreasing GST revenue - & it’s too costly to impose & scrutinise GST collection on these items
    ASSUMPTIONS:
    • Total gov’t revenue in 2016/17 is same as for 2014/15 = $405B (but this includes excise & duties) - budget.com.au – Appendix B
    • Total gov’t expenditure in 2016/17 is same as for 2014/15 = $435B (apca.com.au)
    • Value of all Centrelink payments in 13/14 = $154B – assume same for 16/17
    • Total value of all monetary transactions in 2016/67 is same as in 2014/15 = $25261.15B
    • A 2% Transaction Tax would theoretically raise $505.22B but allowing for 15% lost revenue gives a nett tax take of $429.44B– sufficient to bring the budget into surplus – ($429.44B –$435B +$59.7B excise & duties) = $54.1B surplus
    THE TRANSACTION TAX SYSTEM (SIMPLIFIED)
    1. A 2% (say) tax on every monetary transaction (total non-cash transactions in Australia in 2015 = $25261.15B) – no exception (Treasury would determine the initial rate)
    2. No other federal taxes (but duties remain as is)
    3. A scheme for direct payments from gov’t to eligible applicants (compensation) to ensure individuals pay no extra tax & receive all benefits to which they were entitled previously – so no one is ‘worse-off’
    4. For example: transfer of wages from employer to employee; payments for groceries etc.; all repayments onto credit cards; all payments for items purchased online; transfer of funds from a transaction bank account to a term deposit account; all payments by cash, cheque, credit card, debit card, EFTPOS & ATM, high value transfers
    5. Compensation=all Centrelink payments in the year preceding the change + new claims
    6. Centrelink payments would be indexed as now
    7. System for Centrelink payments: by application (claims) with a declaration; penalties for false declaration.

    A TT would be fairer because there would be no escaping or 'minimising' tax - individuals or entities
    Rae
    19th Jan 2017
    6:22pm
    I saved for my retirement though after paying tax. No holidays, caravans, new cars , private schools, dinners out, take away, coffees etc, etc So now you want me to pay transaction tax. Not likely.

    How about others stop spending every last cent they get and save a bit for later on.

    I could not be paid the compensation from the Carbon tax and this would be the same. You can't compensate those not being paid by someone else.
    LiveItUp
    20th Jan 2017
    7:00am
    A transaction tax would bring the financial system to a halt as people stopped transferring money. A tax every time your term deposits mature. Makes them no worthwhile. A tax evrry time you move money to invest. Sounds like a recipe for a depression to me with the lack of money flow. Black economy will be the norm as people avoid the tax. It's GST on steriods.
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    11:01am
    Hmm - money has to move within the system somehow - and even 'black money' is only one step removed from the money cycle.
    Pamiea
    19th Jan 2017
    3:08pm
    A classic example. Just picked up my $6.20 medication yesterday. The government has put it up tp $11.25!!!
    Rae
    19th Jan 2017
    3:36pm
    I'd hate to think what I would have to pay? I have no card so pay a working persons costs.

    I was paying $32 at the local chemist for ear drops . I found the same script for $19.80 at a larger centre chemist and eventually found a discount chemist that only charged $12.35.

    That same discount chemist also has advocate for the cat at almost 30% discount to the pet shop or vet.

    It pays to shop around. I did it via the phone until I found the cheaper outlet.
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    4:25pm
    Did you ask the pharmacist for an explanation Pamiea? There was a change to the PBS some time ago where a higher charge was made if there was a generic medicine available. If you took the generic, the price was &6.20 but if you took the original medicine, the price was $11.25.
    KSS
    19th Jan 2017
    7:39pm
    The pharmacist can charge almost any price they like but NOT more than the PBS rate. That is why there can be such a price difference. There are also on-line chemists too and they are also very cheap. As you say it pays to shop around, not just for prescriptions but for everything.
    PlanB
    20th Jan 2017
    12:05pm
    Pamiea OMG last year it went up from $6.20 to $6.70 AND you had to buy more b4 you got the free ones -- now you are saying it is
    $11.25 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Bastards -- and they say NO CHANGE TO MEDICARE !!!!

    This is way over the top they are all so &^%$*%$ corrupt and hit the ones that need help most its time to all stand-up and really give them heaps !
    Not a Bludger
    19th Jan 2017
    3:46pm
    I am appalled.
    Most of these comments are clearly from the 50% approx of Australians receiving free money from the government (aka my taxes at work).
    Part of the so-called big-end of town were Ford, Holden , Toyota, Mitsubishi, Chrysler, Leyland, JRA et al which, over time, employed many 100's of thousands of Australians in quite high tech jobs in manufacturing (and trained many for them) - today, none.
    They may not have paid much income tax but they collectively paid many unreported 100's of millions in payroll tax, wholesale sales tax, GST, income tax on behalf of employees, superannuation, land tax, stamp duties and the list goes on.
    Today - all gone mainly compliments of left wing governments & unions, the last thanks to an idiot treasurer Joe Hockey - unlike countries such as South Africa, Turkey, Mexico, China (let alone Germany, Japan and South Korea).
    Now, once again, USA (under Trump) and UK (under May) are promoting economic environments where such manufacturing investment and jobs are welcome and, hopefully mandated - and jobs, wealth and growth will ensue.

    Don't worry about a bit of income tax - neither here nor there - other than in the minds of the latte sipping lefties and greens who would rather we lived in caves and sang Kumbaya as our only entertainment.
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    4:30pm
    Sorry Not a Bludger but Hockey didn't get rid of any car manufacturer. This is one of those rumours put out by Labor and is in reference to Hockey challenging Holden to make a decision to go or stay. It was Holden's decision to go, Hockey just asked them to make it public.

    The simple truth is that Australia has become too expensive to make motor vehicles. How could Holden compete with Ford when Ford was making vehicles in Thailand at 1/3 of the wages cost component. They had to stay on a level playing field so they are going.
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    4:38pm
    Not a Bludger you have hit the nail on the head most of the Blogers on this web sight are completely left wing and are only out for themselves as in give me more money I am a pensioner and I want money from the taxpayer to support my extravagant lifestyle.
    ( put them all on food stamps).
    Anonymous
    19th Jan 2017
    6:38pm
    What a vile and insulting ASSUMPTION, Roby and Not a Bludger. Makes ASSES of both of you. Sorry, but your are dead wrong. Firstly, you have no basis for assuming anyone who posted here is ''left wing'' or ''only out for themselves'', nor that they want ''more from the taxpayer to support (their) extravagant lifestyle''.

    Those posting are concerned that the tax system is flawed to discriminate against ordinary working Australians and allow the wealthy and large corporations to avoid paying their share. It's a fair complaint, and one many eminent world leaders agree with. Actually, most politicians agree, but they are too gutless to do anything about it because the wealthy and large corporates are donors.
    Oldman Roo
    19th Jan 2017
    6:42pm
    Not a Bludger and Roby , Sure , play the old LNP trump card ,denigrate the less fortunate in life as free loaders . They also have worked hard in life and , just because they did not make it big time ,do not deserve to be skinned like a rabbit .
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    11:03am
    .. and part of the reason that many didn't make it big time was precisely the amazing snobbery of a few who imagine themselves better, and the way such persons always seek to cut others down.

    Time for Australia to move on from that kind of petty bickering and back-stabbing.
    Oldman Roo
    19th Jan 2017
    5:43pm
    Expecting change under our present two major party circus is almost impossible unless small parties and Independents receive a much larger share of the vote as only parliamentarians have the power to change it .Needless to mention they are not interested in changing it .
    It was also proposed in parliament in 1984 that that parties and candidates should not be allowed to tell lies in an election campaign - Labor and the coalition voted to delete it .
    Also according to political writer Dean Jensch , a Citizens Initiative Referendum , CIR . that could bind parliaments to pass a law in accord with a CIR petition , which leaves no wriggle room . also has Labor and the Coalition implacably opposed to it in any form . And Mr. Jensch adds , I wonder why .
    And my final comment is , Wake up Australia and get rid of our Misrepresentatives .
    Aussie
    19th Jan 2017
    6:43pm
    Well we could have a better world and terrific country if we share, be fair and help others in need
    Australia has everything to be the most beautiful, peaceful and very wealthy but we have a lot of greedy people that only think on themselves and nothing for others .

    Maybe this video may encourage some people to be better and not selfish .....
    I will like to send this to our PM and some politicians maybe they learn something about others in need .......

    https://www.facebook.com/monica.costa.520900/videos/10153406364955661/
    Not Senile Yet!
    19th Jan 2017
    9:05pm
    Nobody expects the employers to pay tax at the same rate as employees!
    They create work and employment!
    But to NOT PAY ANY AT ALL is simply not FAIR to our Great Country and it's need to expand its infrastructure....which is what tax is all about!
    You cannot finance a Nation on Tolls and just wages taxes....even Business people know this!
    A Flat rate of 10% in exchange for an ABN to operate is not unreasonable!
    That would close the Loopholes forever!
    No exemptions whatsoever and All Charities should be included in this!
    Everyone needs to put in!
    As to our Party System...it is broken!
    Both have been corrupted from within by power groups accessing donations from Corrupt Scources!
    There is only ONE WAY TO STOP THAT!!
    STOP VOTING FOR THEM!
    Stop giving your Vote to Party Puppets who are Owned by Outside Interests via their Party!
    Rebel by not Voting for them and put them Last to remove any preference deals!
    Put as many Independants in as possible so as to remove their Dominance/Dictatorship!
    freedom27
    19th Jan 2017
    10:38pm
    I didn't write the article below however it conveys my view and thoughts about this disgraceful and greedy government:

    Gloves off. Bring it on.
    We are pissed off!
    The media is trying to ignore it but the fact is that the public's anger towards this governments incompetence and smugness is soaring. Maybe it's time to take to the streets. #auspol #ausvotes #notmydebt
    The anger towards this government across social media is boiling over. The right wing fascist propaganda MSM is totally ignoring it.
    We aren't.
    The on going crisis with Centrelink tops the list. If the government spent half the time and effort pursuing corporate tax avoiders as they did welfare recipients the deficit would be wiped out. But no, Turnbull chosen instead to protect his IPA sponsored mates and instead attack the weak and underprivileged.
    And that has people very, very angry.
    Then this morning we learn that, yet again, Sussan Ley has rorted travel expenses by claiming for another flight to the Gold Coast for her and her husband where they just happened to buy an $800,000 investment unit.
    During the trip she made some small, insignificant announcement on health that we are expected to believe was the true reason for the trip.
    Well, no one is buying it.
    The contempt this government is now showing us is far worse than under Abbott who, by the way, we know is currently planning a comeback.
    Meanwhile what's happened to the opinion polls? Suddenly there's silence and Roy Morgan hasn't done a Federal one since before the last election.
    And Christian Porter saying the disabled are a burden on society. I would argue that clocking up frequent flyer points in the RAAF to the tune of some $65,000 is a bigger burden.
    Leave the bloody underprivileged alone you heartless, gutless, spineless bastards. They have enough of a struggle. Stop abusing taxpayer assets, stop the rorting and start chasing those who can well afford to pay tax but aren't.
    Or are you afraid of biting the hand that feeds you?
    With the MSM ignoring our anger (we've experienced a surge in page reach because of it, so have most other leftie pages) the solution is to take it to the streets. I am suggesting a mass protest at Parliament House. But I emphasise this is to exercise our democratic rights, NOT to break the law.
    And for Christ's sake Labor. Stop being so bloody mute on all this and take it up to these bastards. I want the entire Labor opposition at this rally.
    Also unions can help. Until this government ceases its relentless and unfair attack on welfare, the unions should halt ALL services and support to the government, as Bob Hawke threatened when Malcolm Fraser blocked supply in 1975.
    Whingeing gets us nowhere. It's time to take the fight up to these elitist mongrels.
    Enough is enough.
    Philip M
    Circum
    19th Jan 2017
    11:31pm
    The unions can help by sacking all the thugs in leadership positions in unions such as the CMFEU and UFU to name just 2.This should result in a lower cost burden on the citizens of Australia by reducing expensive disruption caused by egotistical and power hungry union leaders.Not much different to politicians.
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    2:27am
    Labor won't do it because they are in the same lifeboat from the sinking HMAS Australia - their 'pension rights' and so forth are well protected in the Future Fund stashed in the Caymans using OUR money, so they will never lose out even if the country collapses tomorrow - and they have better things to do to bring about a more 'equal' world by ensuring that we adopt the Swiss system of proportionate representation, and if we, the people don't want that and have never voted for it - they will give it to us at gunpoint.

    Labor is too far removed from the ordinary people, and too well insulated from the trials and tribulations of those ordinary people under their watch, same as the LNP are, to actually do something for those ordinary people.

    I think that says it for both the major parties.
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    2:27am
    Labor won't do it because they are in the same lifeboat from the sinking HMAS Australia - their 'pension rights' and so forth are well protected in the Future Fund stashed in the Caymans using OUR money, so they will never lose out even if the country collapses tomorrow - and they have better things to do to bring about a more 'equal' world by ensuring that we adopt the Swiss system of proportional representation, and if we, the people don't want that and have never voted for it - they will give it to us at gunpoint.

    Just another example of how 'government' here imagines that it has some Divine Right to do as it chooses, regardless of the will of the people, and is entitled to impose on those people at will.

    Labor is too far removed from the ordinary people, and too well insulated from the trials and tribulations of those ordinary people under their watch, same as the LNP are, to actually do something for those ordinary people.

    I think that says it for both the major parties.
    Eddy
    20th Jan 2017
    9:24am
    Come off the grass Circum, I suggest that for every so called 'union thug' there are ten white collar 'thugs' bleeding this country for their own benefit (and also some politicians).
    It would be difficult to sack these 'union thugs' who were elected by union members in secret ballots. Why do union members, like CFMEU, elect these people? It may be because these 'union thugs' are the only ones they trust (ie honest enough to be unbribable) to represent them against rich and powerful (and thuggish) business interests.
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    11:08am
    Oh - and circum - the allegations that Unions are thugs is just that and nothing more - a trumped-up phrase put in play by the LNP for political purposes - meaning to get people to imagine these big hairy monsters are standing over poor widdle managers who, quite obviously if they can be 'stood over', don't have the balls for their job.

    The reality is that without Unions your annual wage rise would not take place and your conditions and minimum wages would disappear, since these same ball-less 'managers' would simply pay whatever they wanted. The problem with the CFMEU is that 'managers' sign contracts and then try to find ways to weasel out of them.
    PlanB
    20th Jan 2017
    12:20pm
    Freedom I am with you it is time to stand up to these ----------g lot of corrupt scum
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    2:38am
    Has YLC considered the very real possibility that they are being closely scrutinised by certain 'agencies'? This strand is very slow in response, unlike every other arena I visit online - so it is plain to me that 'someone' is taking the time to look at this very closely - which is slowing it down.

    I've noticed that whenever a highly controversial issue is being discussed on other fora - the same thing happens.

    That is why my response the last post here is repeated.... the 'agencies' are slowing it down so they can take the time to analyse the comments fully.... I'd have thought they'd get the gist in the first five seconds....

    So I'll make it easy!

    The tax system sucks - the social security debt recovery system sucks - the government we have sucks.

    Got it now?
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    2:38am
    Has YLC considered the very real possibility that they are being closely scrutinised by certain 'agencies'? This strand is very slow in response, unlike every other arena I visit online - so it is plain to me that 'someone' is taking the time to look at this very closely - which is slowing it down.

    I've noticed that whenever a highly controversial issue is being discussed on other fora - the same thing happens.

    That is why my response the last post here is repeated.... the 'agencies' are slowing it down so they can take the time to analyse the comments fully.... I'd have thought they'd get the gist in the first five seconds....

    So I'll make it easy!

    The tax system sucks - the social security debt recovery system sucks - the government we have sucks.

    Got it now?
    Anonymous
    20th Jan 2017
    7:40am
    Hey TREBOR you are starting to repeat yourself must be the time of day.
    TREBOR
    20th Jan 2017
    11:09am
    Nah - the site freezes... all the others I've got open don't - so something is going on.
    Aussie
    20th Jan 2017
    1:35pm
    Trebor ....maybe you have slow pc or need a clean up ....defracment your disk ...delete all rubish first ...delete all programs you do not use
    Janran
    21st Jan 2017
    3:38pm
    TREBOR, it has frozen for me, too, but this site takes up a lot of memory while it's open. However, I understand that what we write, even during composition, can be monitored even BEFORE WE POST IT.

    Last week I composed a longish post about what we can do to have our voices heard and represented by Independents, rather than be frightened and coerced into voting for Labor or LNP, for fear that a major party gets in who we REALLY don't want. Then the site froze and I couldn't even copy and paste it elsewhere.

    Is anyone interested in hearing about my idea?
    TREBOR
    21st Jan 2017
    9:27pm
    Yes - bring it out, janran... all views accepted and considered...
    PlanB
    20th Jan 2017
    7:42am
    I have not read the posts -- but my take on it is --OUR Governments are SUPPOSED to be there to look after OUR country AND it's people -- which they are NOT doing and are run by the Corporations and have they have sold the country out / have ripped all of us off / spent OUR money or THEIR enjoyments.
    IMO if they do ANYTHING dishonest they should be OUT on their ear with NO lerks / Perks and or pensions
    Tarabelle
    20th Jan 2017
    12:59pm
    Just a note. Have you seen the information supplied to GetUp by a Centrelink whistle blower, re the debt recovery system problems known and the instructions to ignore? Worth a look.
    TREBOR
    21st Jan 2017
    1:30am
    Is there a link? I'm all ears....
    musicveg
    21st Jan 2017
    10:05pm
    https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/newstart/government-fraud/whistleblower-massive-government-fraud

    Here is the link Trebor. Don't forget to sign the petitions.
    TREBOR
    22nd Jan 2017
    1:07am
    Thanks, musicveg... I'm on it now... as we speak...
    musicveg
    21st Jan 2017
    6:29pm
    http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Petitions/House_of_Representatives_Petitions/Petitions_General/Sign_an_e-petition?id=EN0096

    If you agree that past politicians don't deserve continuous payments please sign this petition, don't forget to confirm through your email when they reply.
    Kopernicus
    23rd Jan 2017
    8:26am
    I'd like to return to the question - when did it start to really go down hill? The accelerating growth in wealth disparity, the ever increasing % of revenue taken from wage and salary earners vs business, especially big business and the very wealthy.

    I had a quick geek and could not find satisfactory data, so would welcome some info.

    My personal impression the it was once Howard came in in 96. Since then, the notion of feeding the plebs with the crumbs falling of the table of the rich. Serial tax breaks for the well off were to boost the economy, but instead wasting the boom times on tax cuts for those that did not need them. Halving capital gains tax on property was a classic, now leaving a whole generation unable to compete with investors, many of whom are boomers.

    What I find invidious is the disproportions in education - again more given to those that have more than enough and insufficient help to those in need. Labor made a brilliant contribution by stuffing TAFE and disastrously handing over to shonky private for profit organizations. Poor outcomes, poor access was the result.

    Current Labor has more going for it, Gonski reforms and the redress capital gains and neg gearing. Much more is needed.

    And what about the current climate change charade? All depressing, poor governance, slogans without direction, stasis, stalemate.

    Can't say Labor did much to reverse any of it since
    Gee Whiz
    23rd Jan 2017
    10:25am
    Of course Malcolm Turnbull isn't the right person to lead the country.

    His back stabbing of Tony Abbot had nothing to do with leader ship. It was all about getting his hands on the Prime Ministers retirement benefits which are worth a fortune.

    Don't forget also that Tunbull was named in the Panama Papers scandal and has publicly admitted, quite proudly that he maintains accounts in tax havens to avoid paying tax in this country.

    This is the type of corrupt scoundrel we have running the country.

    Would we really expect a person like this, with such low moral standards to actually care what happens to the average Australian?

    And the longer the time they spend in parliament the more corrupt they become. They should be all tipped out after three years and start aging with a fresh bunch. It can't be any worse than what we suffer now.
    musicveg
    23rd Jan 2017
    12:46pm
    http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Petitions/House_of_Representatives_Petitions/Petitions_General/Sign_an_e-petition?id=EN0096

    Sign this petition if you want to see the end of continuous payments for past polies.
    Babs
    23rd Jan 2017
    12:26pm
    We need a totally new party that will put Australia first and rebuild. All politicians we have at the moment regardless of whether party or independent are there for their own egos and hip pockets. Not one seems to care about Australia or the people. Babs
    JAID
    25th Jan 2017
    7:05pm
    It is easy in a survey to whinge that your paddock is not as green and lush as the neighbouring one. It does not have to mean that the neighbours did something dodgy to achieve apparent benificence; it doesn't necessarily mean that their nose is clean also. Any real difference can result from misunderstanding your side or theirs as imagined advantages. It can also result from ineptidude in your paddock or in government. The perception is a typically human response and one typically ignorant of the depths which make up our differences and the net broad advantages or disadvantages.

    Beyond that the response is ignorantly material, ignorant for failing to perceive that happiness can come in a broad range of packages or furnishings.

    There are rich and there are poor but hugely we have a caring system. It can do that better and it can do more and it may even be that a better system will improve performance with greater rapidity but it is not correct to see the broad political population as devoid of will to improve circumstances for other than themselves or their friends. The same can be said of business, the wealthiest, the public servants, whoever. If we were a little less typically 21st century human we would start from the premise that most can be reasoned with and all can come to appreciate that with fulfilment there is responsibility; that all things are part of a balance we are trying to propel to a premium condition then get along and improve as a nation.