8th Nov 2017
Chicken shops and the citizenship fiasco, bizarre new twist
Author: Ben Hocking
Citizenship fiasco’s bizarre twist

The citizenship crisis, which has already claimed the scalps of Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce and four other senators, shows no signs of stopping, with the story taking a bizarre twist surrounding Liberal MP John Alexander.

Details emerged last week suggesting both Alexander and the Government’s energy minister Josh Frydenberg may hold dual citizenship.

In a bizarre twist, the ABC’s 7.30 program reported on Tuesday night that Mr Alexander had entered a chicken shop near his electorate office a few days ago to ask a local Justice of the Peace to witness him signing some documents.

“He briefly said to me it’s about the citizenship fiasco and all this,” George Dib told the program.

“He also said to me, look, as far as he’s concerned, his father came here as an infant. Really, Mr Alexander, to me, he’s a true blue Aussie.”

Labor’s leader in the Senate, Penny Wong, has demanded that Mr Alexander’s case be brought before the High Court, after it was alleged that he inherited British citizenship from his father.

Mr Alexander’s situation appears similar to that of Barnaby Joyce and Fiona Nash, who were disqualified by the High Court; and Stephen Parry, who resigned in the knowledge he would also be ruled ineligible.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and opposition leader Bill Shorten will meet today to work out the details of a disclosure motion to compel politicians to provide details of their citizenship status.

“I think the system of voluntary disclosure with obviously very heavy penalties, political penalties and personal reputational penalties if people conceal things or don’t disclose things honestly; I think that works and I think it will work well here,” Mr Turnbull told ABC Radio on Tuesday.

Opinion: Forget an audit, we need a new election

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s proposed citizenship disclosure legislation to try and deal with the unfolding crisis around the election of ineligible candidates is a farce.

Relying on the honesty of politicians is what has got us into this mess in the first place. Politicians are already asked to sign a statement, confirming their citizenship status when they fill out their candidate form, and it is increasingly apparent they are unable to meet this requirement.

Mr Turnbull’s proposal places the level of the offences on par with complying with the register of pecuniary interests. Members of parliament break these guidelines frequently, with little more than a slap on the wrist as penalty.

Citizenship breaches require more than a slap on the wrist; they require immediate expulsion from Parliament.

Labor’s backflip last week, calling for a complete audit of all MPs is a step in the right direction, but surely now that the crisis continues to grow, the only real solution to the problem is a new election.

Now that so many members of parliament are under question we should be questioning the validity of many of the laws that have been passed since the last election.

The Government’s slim majority is already at risk. If John Alexander is found to have held dual citizenship, there will be a by-election in his marginal Sydney seat of Bennelong, which could change the balance of power in the House of Representatives.

What do you think? Do you think a complete citizenship audit is necessary? Would you like to see a new election to settle the matter for good? Would you like to see a referendum on section 44 of the Constitution?

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    COMMENTS

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    tj
    8th Nov 2017
    10:25am
    10% marginal??
    Ayin
    8th Nov 2017
    10:25am
    We are currently sailing in a Rudd-erless ship and what we desperately is a Leader in Canberra
    Lark Force
    8th Nov 2017
    2:43pm
    What’s all this fuss about not being an Australian Citizen and sitting in Parliament.

    Our Head of State is not even an Australian. She’s British!

    And because we are part of a monarchy, we don't get to decide who that Head of State is.

    How can we keep chucking out MPs with dual citizenship when our head of state isn’t even a citizen at all?

    A new head of state is inevitable within a few years - but an Australian head of state is not inevitable.

    If we don't do anything, we get King Charles.

    And what is he? Half Greek, and some German.

    Will he denounce his Greek Citizenship before becoming our next head of state?

    Not Likely!
    Janran
    8th Nov 2017
    3:34pm
    So let's get rid of the Monarchy out of Australian politics and replace the Queen with the Australian of the Year. Then we can keep the Westminster system without having to jump through ridiculous wedge politics of a referendum to choose what type of a Republic we want.

    The referendum could ask:
    Q 1) Do you want the Head of State to be an Australian? Yes or No.
    Q 2) If Yes, who?
    - a) Australian of the Year.
    - b) The Governor General.
    - c) Bozo the Clown.
    - d) None of the above.
    Q 3) If No, who?:
    - a) the reigning Monarch of England.
    - b) Bozo the foreign Clown.
    - c) Bozo the foreign Clown's daughter.
    - d) None of the above.
    Anonymous
    8th Nov 2017
    5:17pm
    Bring on the Republic, and sever our ties with the Pommie Parasites.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2017
    10:26am
    Just wait for the dominos to start falling in the Labor party as well.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    10:48am
    The it will be 'they need to go'. Now it is 'not us'.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    1:40pm
    Not sure about that OG. I'm also wondering if the sales of our assets to foreigners by a government of dual citizens might not need a good looking at as well. It could explain a lot about the treasonous appearing sell out going on.

    I've my doubts about Abbott as well.

    It isn't really hard to complete heritage searches these days and most birth, marriage and death certificates are digitalised.

    Maybe the government could subscribe to Heretige.com or similar and hire someone trained to search each politicians heritage back two or three generations.

    You'd swear they imagine the internet doesn't exist. Sigh!
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:45pm
    I suspect you are looking for 2 words to explain the why: arrogance and contempt.
    arbee
    8th Nov 2017
    3:32pm
    Yes Mick, arrogance and contempt describes Shorten, Wong, Plibersek and many more precisely. What a pity Albanese was not elected leader of the party, he had the majority of the rank and file vote but the unions wanted their brown nosed boy shortkick instead so as per usual they got all of the say.
    Anonymous
    8th Nov 2017
    5:19pm
    @Rae - Groper-mouth Abbott is the worst PM we've ever had. Any excuse to get that maggot out of parliament should be embraced wholeheartedly.
    Janran
    9th Nov 2017
    9:57am
    I think Abbott was born in England and came here as a child. If Australia could unload him from Parliament it would be great news for Labor, LNP and the Greens.

    Abbott is the biggest liar in our political history. In his desperation to beat Gillard, he promised not to cut education, health, the ABC and SBS in the last week of the election campaign. As soon as he was elected, yep, you guessed it, he announced cuts to education, health, the ABC and SBS (among other broken promises).

    These people have no shame - lying is their game.

    This morning, Turnbull accused Shorten OF DELAYING THE DUAL CITIZENSHIP SAGA!!! Shorten proposed to bring the whole thing forward to early December, so as not to waste taxpayer dollars by having to extend Parliament sitting late in December, as Turnbull is proposing. What a hide! Of course the real reason is so that Barnaby Joyce can win his by-election and retain his seat, before other LNP MP's are ousted, TO RETAIN A MAJORITY IN THE PARLIAMENT. They presume people are stupid enough to believe them and I'm afraid they might be right.
    Anonymous
    10th Nov 2017
    5:28pm
    @Janran "Abbott is the biggest liar in our political history."

    Not quite. That'd be the lying Rodent "Honest" (ha!) John Howard - the second-worst PM in Australian history.
    Janran
    13th Nov 2017
    3:12pm
    Yes, DrPolymath, Howard was a genius liar as well, and a lot smarter about his lies than was Abbott.
    Old Man
    8th Nov 2017
    10:37am
    This is turning into a farce. I know and accept that the High Court has made a ruling but as far as I'm concerned, if someone is born in Australia and hasn't sought citizenship from another nation then they are Australian. It would be ironic if one of the MP's who claim Aboriginality was to discover a British grandparent and therefore become ineligible as that would make them a British citizen.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2017
    10:40am
    I'm already waiting for that one.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    10:51am
    I agree OM. The fix is CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION. You might want to ponder why the current dictatorship will run a marriage equality postal vote wasting $120 million of taxpayer money but refuses to fix a glaring issue which all of us would agree to. Tagging this sort of referendum onto the next election would appear the way to keep costs low but unlikely this bunch are up to fixing anything.
    roy
    8th Nov 2017
    11:39am
    The "current dictatorship".
    MICK, why are you so juvenile?
    solmon52
    8th Nov 2017
    11:51am
    Old Man,
    You do not become a Brtish Citizen if you have a grand parent born in England. If you have a parent born then you have the right to apply. It is not automatic. However if your parent registered you, it is upto you to denounce it.
    I have not seen how Alexander became to think he was, but very much think it may be the latter of my info.
    If that is so then it is obvious the audit system has failed. I also understand that who ever does the security check on all poloticians are not being diligent.
    If you sign a stat dec to say all the information you give to those checking on your security is true and correct and it is not, then its time for the AFP to lay perjury charges.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    12:15pm
    Roy: you need to listen to the rhetoric and look at the agenda before you push the wagon of the current bad bad government. Pretty obvious isn't it.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:28pm
    What some people fail to see is that the constitution was written to protect us the people from unsavory politicians from passing laws against our will.

    A lot of people say that if borne in Aussie then he/she is true blue.

    If a part of the constitution is outdated then us the people are the only ones that can agree to delete it or replace it. Until that happens then it stays. whatever anyone says.

    It should also be noted that today unsavory foreign governments could slip in "sleepers" just like the communists did.

    So beware what you get rid of without some other protection in place.

    One other thing that people forget is that there are things happening today that are gradually whittling away our freedoms that back in 1911 wouldn't even be thought of. If they were you bet your bottom dollar that they would be in their.

    There are probably other items in the constitution that could be interpreted as outdated.

    By our PM's rhetoric he seems to think that all this should be ignored. Why because of the stupidity of some politicians! If I was going to a foreign country I would research what I needed to comply with before I went there. If I was applying for a new job I would make sure I met all the qualification needed to apply.

    So what makes these politicians seem to think they do not need to. The excuse "I was not aware that my ancestors were so and so citizens. Sod it it's the requirement for the job and the excuse "I didn't know" is not an excuse.

    It wouldn't help me if I went to Thailand and said something naughty about the King and said I didn't know I couldn't do that. We all know where I would have ended up.
    KSS
    8th Nov 2017
    12:43pm
    Soloman52 actually there would be thousands of 'Australians' who have sought and been granted British or Irish citizenship purely on the strength of Grandparents origins. The motivation of course is to live and work in the UK (or the EEU before Brexit) without the need to comply with visa regulations.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:47pm
    Some pollies have fixed this BEFORE they enter politics. Not real hard. If they are too stupid or too arrogant to do this then who needs them to run the country? Ok, that explains a lot about why the country is being sold out.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    1:50pm
    Yes. I regret the Constitution didn't see the huge Corporations coming and forbid sales of taxpayer funded assets, utilities, ports etc.

    When I was in the army I studied the defence of Darwin.

    The Communist government now has control of Darwin Port, Cubby Station i.e. Murray/Darling headwaters, strategic supply line properties , the grid etc.

    Knowing what I do about logistics I think the young advisors and bankers and lawyers running the country are very naive indeed.

    We have to be the silliest Nation today with no concern for Homeland Security apart from surveillance of citizens.
    It's bizarre.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    2:19pm
    It has been my issue for some time that governments on both sides are selling us out.

    We have closed down industries because it is cheaper to import. Now we have a growing unemployment queue, unemployment benefits buckling and the need to find money to pay for imports.

    We have outsourced jobs and brought in cheap labour for the same reason. Same result.

    We have flogged off most of our viable industries and now the same model is being used for the best of our valuable farming land: available to any government which wants it.

    And lets not forget the recent push to allow fracking in places like Gunnedah where the best fertile land is and the sale of assets like LNG where we get almost nothing out of the deal whilst Australians are routinely starved of cheap energy. We should have the cheapest energy on the planet not the dearest.

    Australians need to wake up to themselves rather than vote for the major parties. It's too late once the country becomes another third world player.

    These are the real issues Rae....and yes border security should be a part of the mix.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:36pm
    Yes and section 44 means we can't be ruled by foreign nationals or corporations.

    I love the Constitution but it could have gone further to protect us. They would never have seen a government selling us out like this one has based on neo-liberal ideology. That wouldn't have been contemplated by Nationalists back then.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    3:02pm
    I'll be your Godfather.... my ancestry here goes back to the 1850's so I have no citizenship anywhere else... pure dinky di, meyte...

    I looked at German and Irish and Scottish Citizenship - no dice.. too long ago.
    GeorgeM
    8th Nov 2017
    3:24pm
    Agree, Rae, with your comments above. The Constitution is perfect in this area and does NOT need any change.

    In fact, the Constitution should be changed to NATIONALISE ALL RESOURCES in this country, including land, as only this Country or it's Citizens should own these. Any licence to exploit any of these MUST pass serious tests, and be for limited periods only, not long-term, with ability to cancel these leases at any time if this country is being disadvantaged (such as Gas exports currently).
    Old Man
    8th Nov 2017
    3:38pm
    MICK, I fear you're having a bet each way.

    "The fix is CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION." Your post 10.51am.

    "Some pollies have fixed this BEFORE they enter politics. Not real hard. If they are too stupid or too arrogant to do this then who needs them to run the country? Ok, that explains a lot about why the country is being sold out." Your post 1.47pm.

    If they change the Constitution then the stupid, arrogant people will be running the country. I agree with your 1.47pm post.
    Janran
    8th Nov 2017
    4:24pm
    Excellent point, George "... the Constitution should be changed to NATIONALISE ALL RESOURCES in this country, including land, as only this Country or it's Citizens should own these. Any licence to exploit any of these MUST pass serious tests, and be for limited periods only, not long-term, with ability to cancel these leases at any time if this country is being disadvantaged (such as Gas exports currently)."

    I would add that any such mining that poisoned or disabled a natural watercourse or aquifer, should have to pay all those affected (like adjoining farmers, householders, National Park, etc.), retrospectively. If the offending mining co. declares bankruptcy, their affiliate companies would also be liable, retrospectively.

    Nationalising all resources would also give "Crown Land" back to Australia and hopefully, the opportunity for Indigenous communities to claim back the otherwise untitled land of their ancestors, while not upsetting any other owners or people who have legitimately paid for their land/title.
    Old Man
    8th Nov 2017
    4:48pm
    Janran, If Australia cancels an agreement at any time without notice we will find that other countries won't want to deal with us. All of our natural resources are not unique to Australia and we compete with the rest of the world in sales. Australia is an importing nation and to lose the sales of our natural resources would bankrupt us.

    Your suggestion that affiliated companies should be made to pay up for the bankruptcy of another company is ridiculous. To bring the matter down a couple of levels, you are saying that if any of your children were to go bankrupt then you should be called upon to pay their debts even if that means you lose everything.
    Janran
    8th Nov 2017
    6:29pm
    If the parents have been given goods or siphoned off the child's profits, yes indeed! If they have enabled their child to rip off Government coffers, other people or the environment, THEY SHOULD PAY. It's called being accountable, an old-fashioned idea that modern politics and economics are bereft of.

    Then we need to change Corporation laws that presently allow profits to be siphoned off into tax havens, while loans and costs of business are left with the company here, now in the red, who are exploiting our resources and infrastructure, and NOT PAYING THEIR PROPER SHARE OF AUSTRALIAN TAX.

    What's to stop Australian companies from selling our own resources overseas? Are you saying overseas companies (like Adani), will only invest here if they get to exploit our resources without having to pay for damage during and after extraction? If so, they can f**k off and good riddance.

    Yes, I'm suggesting we get off the global corporation take-over of the world. Our financial markets will suffer but the alternative is Nowhereville. At least we'll have a viable country that can feed and power itself, safe from foreign interference. Some things are more important than money.

    This stupid idea that we must mine and exploit our resources as soon as they're discovered, regardless of the global price for said resources, is ridiculous. Australia will still own all the coal in the Carmichael mine, even if we leave it in the ground. Maybe in 100 years the price of coal will be considerably higher by comparison. If we mine and sell it then, Australia may end up a whole lot better off. But greedy moneymakers don't want to reserve it for their great-grandchildren - they want it for themselves, ASAP. They want all that money they'll make to keep churning this sick, thieving, global Corporatetocracy. It's rigged.
    Rae
    9th Nov 2017
    12:10pm
    Old Man how long before the country is bankrupted if all profits are being shipped overseas by the overseas owners of almost everything now?

    What happens to an importing country when all the exports are foreign owned?

    What happens if all government contractors are foreign owned international contractors?
    Janran
    9th Nov 2017
    3:39pm
    Rae, you've hit the nail on the head.

    Australia's been sold out by the elite classes. They are surely traitors.

    And our stupid Govt. wants to give them $60 billion in tax cuts "so WE can compete globally." I know they're not talking about average-earning Australians when they say "WE" - they're talking about their mates and themselves.

    Our 4 big banks are structured so that a substantial proportion of that $60 billion will go straight overseas. What a travesty of justice that would be.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    10:42am
    Only the mentally challenged will see Turnbull's latest dismissal of this issue as other than an attempt to stave off the inevitable. The irony is that this is the man who called the Greens "sloppy" when this all started but now he wants to avoid scrutiny for his own. The next double standard.
    I agree with you Ben. We do need a fresh election. But what we need is a for the Electoral Commission to vet candidates via a Statutory Declaration regarding citizenship where the candidate agrees to pay back his/her entire salary as well as half of the cost of a By Election should they be found out. That would force candidates to do all the proper research and come into an election as nationality clean.

    I for one have had enough of this BS and it is about time it was fixed. Given the ongoing deceit which comes from the current dictatorship in waiting I am not sure this will happen. Having said that I am not sure Labor will fix it either as both sides likely have more skeletons in the closet...which are probably being sorted for the next time we go to the polls. That should be sooner rather than later but don't expect the current born to rule despot to do anything other than hang onto power. Surprise me Malcolm!
    roy
    8th Nov 2017
    11:42am
    The "mentally challenged" dear oh dear MICK!
    The "current dictatorship".
    "born to rule despot" oh dear.
    Can this "man" MICK not be barred from this site?
    Polly Esther
    8th Nov 2017
    12:00pm
    Admitting to having trouble understanding the situation are you Mick? LOL :-)))
    Sen.Cit.89
    8th Nov 2017
    12:05pm
    Mick in the past I've agreed with some of your comments; now after reading this and your other comments on this subject I fully agree with the comment of 'roy'
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    12:17pm
    It is what it is guys.
    We need a fix rather than one sided blame. I have had enough and if my frustration is spilling over then deal with the issue, something this government refuses to do.
    So which side of politics are we on guys?
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:33pm
    Maybe Mick is just getting frustrated by whats going on. I know I am.
    arbee
    8th Nov 2017
    1:07pm
    Mick you get more pathetic with your comments as each day goes by. Why are you saying nothing about your beloved labour politicians refusing to disclose anything. Why wont they, probably because more than half of them would have to go.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:12pm
    Your right wing comments and those of like minded 'disciples' are what is pathetic. You are well known for who you are arbee.
    So what is your position in this government? Damage control? Can't prevent that when you have a Party intent on lying about everything, running a Class warfare agenda and applying a totally different set of rules to itself than other MPs.
    I may be a spotted dog but I am not a rat! You?
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:03pm
    roy habeas corpus has been dissolved for 14 days now by this government. You can be disappeared for that length of time.
    This is a fascist act pure and simple.

    Our parents died to stop this type of shit happening and we blatantly refuse to see the risks to our kids, grandkids and great grandkids.

    I blame the education system entirely for the lack of historical knowledge of most of our population.

    She won't be right at all unless we stop the decline of democratic principles.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    3:04pm
    Yes, indeed - Mal is hoping that by referring each case to the courts,his limping 'government' can hang on to their seats, their perks, and their majority.

    It would be such a terrible thing for those politicians to be suddenly forced back into the workforce in their old 'profession'..... their own business.. and so forth...

    Times are so tough in Cambra that ministers are forced to use government cash handouts to attend football matches!! Any news on the Malbun cup and who copped a free ride to get there?
    roy
    8th Nov 2017
    3:20pm
    Mentally challenged it the cap fits, wear it MICK.
    You should be banned from this site forthwith.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    3:21pm
    Pretty clear to all but the disciples of the Party and the mentally challenged amongst us.
    The rantings from the current regime have all the hallmarks of 'born to rule' mentality and the arrogance which precedes it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' per say.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:16pm
    Oh.. I dunno..... I thought Mick got it pretty right....

    You are correct, Rae - I often mention Uberkontrolling regimes such as Stalinism and Hitlerism etc.... suspension of habeus corpus is one of the first things in legal rights to go - under pressure from a terrified public, of course.

    How long before indefinite detention of suspects comes into play, and Der Konzentrationslageren are set up on Manus and Nauru?

    People who don't know... don't know.... Another reason to cast a watchful eye over our immigration and educations systems, as well as the people that are elected into our governing houses.

    (If) Watergate taught us nothing else, it did teach there is no greater threat to society than illegal abuse of power by those sworn to uphold the law.
    - New York Times editorial, October 3 1974.
    FEDUP
    8th Nov 2017
    10:47am
    This is a complete farce. Here we have a person, BORN in Australia, represented Australia in the Davis Cup, and also Captained a Davis Cup, not being classified as a full Australian.
    All new immigrants, when they become Australian Citizens, should be asked to give up the citizenship of their former country, OR not be granted citizenship, and all that that attains.
    Otherwise the only TRUE parliament would be one of indigenous members, and I mean, FULL BLOODS.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    10:55am
    Agree but we are talking about people born of parents who have been here over half a century.
    I can see the issue of electing foreigners to our parliament but the fix is not that hard. What the bastards refuse to do is fix it so voters need to 'fix' the government next time around. People must be getting fed up with this coal owned lot running up bills, handing out money to the wealthy, supporting multinational tax fraud, doing nix other than attacking the Opposition and demanding new coal fired power stations. I certainly am.
    arbee
    8th Nov 2017
    1:09pm
    Mick, go and wipe your face, you are frothing at the mouth now, SHORTARSE lover.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:14pm
    It's tough when people point out the obvious which the current government seeks to hide from the public gaze.
    I suspect an election is close given the demeanour of a few coalition disciples. Buy a bar of soap arbee.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:08pm
    All those asset sales to foreigners need to be examined by the High Court. Seeing who got paid how much would be very interesting indeed.

    arne can you name just one thing this LNP government has done that benefits Australia.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    2:21pm
    Only one Rae: they stopped the boats. I'll give them that but the rest has been vandalism they should all see jail time for.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    3:08pm
    Not so, Fedup - my family lines have been here mostly since the 1850's - long past any continuation of citizenship of any other nation - and we're not Kaffirs....
    roy
    8th Nov 2017
    3:22pm
    MICK would rather have Shifty Shorten in charge of this once wonderful country, you know the union bully boy.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:18pm
    Mick has constantly stated he holds no brief for any major party...... I happen to be the same......

    I suppose that makes me a Trotskyist in the eyes of the ideologues ... but I'm just an ordinary man..... and hold no brief for any political movement or ideology, other than common sense.
    Crowcrag
    8th Nov 2017
    10:52am
    There is little pointin stating that the present rules are not good. They are the rules. Changing them is another process. Another election? Groan! It is a bit like choosing which urologist’s finger you want in that location. I could accept that maybe, possibly, there could an outside chance that it may shake up the parties to realise that WE, the electorate, want something more than the usual trash talk an election cause candidates to vomit up. However, living in Qld, and in the throes of a state election, demonstrates that pollies have learned nothing. The same regurgitated hollow promises, blaming those mugs in the other parties, pretending to care- and failing miserably - is reoccurring tediously. And by far the worst outcome of all this is that some poor souls, too many, put their faith in that lunatic fringe, PHON.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    10:59am
    Americans voted in Trump for a reason: they were fed up with the lying bastards on both sides who played turns and then did what they wanted rather than what they promised.
    If Hanson gains in the polls then she will be the same effect.
    As I always say it matter not who you elect because MPs have highly paid advisors to help them make sound decisions. The problem with Hanson is that she appears to be another coal funded puppet and on that basis I could never vote for her. Many will.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:13pm
    MICK the problem is those highly paid experienced advisors have been replaced by silly kids out of private schools and colleges with an IPA ideology set drummed into them.

    An independent group of politicians advised by qualified and experienced public servants needs to be reinstated in my opinion. Party politics is failing badly. All they do is fight and disparage each other day after wasted day.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    2:22pm
    I would never disagree with that Rae. Sound reasoning.
    FEDUP
    8th Nov 2017
    11:06am
    What about the LABOR Party, with names like Plibersek, Albanese, Aly, Brodtmann, Dreyfus, Georganas, Hasar, Khalil, Neumann, O'Connor, O'Neil, O'Toole', Vamvakinou and Zappia in their ranks, they also could be thinned. It only takes one person to throw the first stone, and you always get what you sow and reap.
    I only use these names as an example of what some people think are Non-Australian names.
    Old Geezer
    8th Nov 2017
    11:13am
    There is likely to be a lot more in the Labor party but they aren't saying anything.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    11:26am
    So you don't think that our Labor hating PM would say anything if Labor were dirty? You need to come out from under that rock and be fair OG.
    Maybe names are being held and will be released as the next election campaign unfolds. This government is the expert on lies, smears and propaganda so that could be the strategy.
    Maybe you will do the unthinkable OG and vote independent, but then you are a real coalition puppet so unlikely no matter what this lot do. Sad.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:40pm
    Now we are starting to be racist because of peoples names. Let me point out that a lot of the politicians removed becuase of the constitution have English sounding names.
    Janran
    8th Nov 2017
    1:05pm
    and "O'Connor, O'Neil and O'Toole" people are probably descended from Irish convicts.

    Unless we are Aboriginal, we're all migrants somewhere up the track. I want Australians who are committed only to Australia, to represent us in Federal Parliaments.
    arbee
    8th Nov 2017
    1:14pm
    Those names are typical labour party names, usually associated with union stand over thugs. Mick you are so blinkered when you talk about government lies and deceit, with your short term memory have you already forgotten the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd years.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:17pm
    Funny how it always comes back to Labor. That is what trolls do.
    FYI arbee Gillard told one big lie. Your crew tell them on a daily basis. Despicable human beings controlled by the coal industry. The voting public matters nix to this lot other than voting and paying taxes. Oh yes...the rich supporters must be looked after. Tax cuts for them!
    Janran
    8th Nov 2017
    1:29pm
    That's rich, arbee. If it weren't for Labor's Rudd, Gillard, Rudd saga, (ironically caused by Abbott's witch hunt of Gillard), we'd already have the Abbott, Turnbull, Abbott saga, with Abbott as the current PM!

    The thought of Abbott as the current PM makes Turnbull start to look better, as incredible as that sounds! What a useless bunch of lying, entitled incompetents! Hope they're all gone soon, as we're in dire need of a competent Government and leader.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:16pm
    arbee the unions have been destroyed. They have no power left. Get over them and look for the reasons the country is leaking money at a faster and faster rate. It's not the unions anymore.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    2:24pm
    Funny how arbee never mentions the coal industry nor matches the behaviour of the current puppet government with what is good for coal. Let build another coal fired power station? How many times does this one keep coming around?
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    3:16pm
    I'm with Janran here....

    Both parents born here and with a clean track record, or you don't get a shot at the free ride for life that politics is. I don't want any odd-thinking furruners making decision for my grand-choldren's future... and on recent record, none are standing up as worthwhile to me.

    As for 'union standover' - let me assure you, as a past unpaid delegate for a union, the standover comes from management, not union. Look at the lockout by British Paints and their bringing in scabs because they demand the right to unilaterally change the workplace agreement... and won't sit down and negotiate.

    Where is the even-handedness in the industrial overseer there? That company should be fined for taking unlawful industrial action.

    Look at the standover by building industry management, who sign a contract and then want to craw-fish on it, and insist on acting like petty tyrants rather than managers.. and many such have the Usual Suspect Mediterraneo names, meaning they imagine that being 'the boss' is the same as absolute dictatorial power, since their home nation is one of absolute poverty and absolute privilege, and thus 'employees' have no rights.
    arbee
    8th Nov 2017
    3:25pm
    Rae, you have to be joking, unfortunately the unions are even more powerful now than ever before, they are destroying manufacturing in this country with their ridiculous high wage demands.
    Have a look at the article in the Weekend Australian in regards to Streets Ice Cream. Currently workers making ice cream on the production line on over $100,000.00 per year and now want lots more while their EBA's are being re negotiated. Streets don't want to pay it so the union is going to embark on a $250,000.00 advertising campaign to try and put Streets out of business. Close them down and then put everyone out of a job just like the car industry, white goods and so many more. Will they finally be happy when no business exists in Australia any more.
    Also for your information Streets can import Magnums (one of their biggest sellers) from Europe for 30% less than it costs to manufacture them here.That is Europe not Asia where they have very cheap labor.
    Why would anyone want to start manufacturing in this country now.
    Not hard to see why union membership as a percentage of the work force has now dwindled down to about 11%. All that is left to do now is destroy the power of the unions and then and only then we may see this country start to prosper again.
    What a shame this government hasn't had the guts to take them on, the unions are a blight on our society.
    Janran
    8th Nov 2017
    5:15pm
    As the owner of a manufacturing business in Regional NSW, which does not have union representation, I can assure you arbee, that manufacturing in Australia is being destroyed by GLOBALISATION. Cheap Chinese imports are eating my business alive, offering a similar-looking product to retail the same as my cost price.

    The problem is that my potential customers can't easily compare my quality products and excellent on-going customer service with inconsistent, shoddily made and non-existent on-going customer service. Yes, I pay decent wages. Why shouldn't hard-working people be paid properly? My livelihood depends on them. Their loyalty and hard work makes my job easier, as I don't have to check on them all the time. It's quite possible my opposition are using child labour - no wonder I can't compete!

    Are those workers at Streets who you say are earning over $100,000 p.a. doing night shift work? Or working weekend shifts? Does it include overtime? You can't cherry-pick info from a Weekend Australian article and expect to know all the facts. This publication relies on radical headlines to increase circulation, similar to clickbait on the internet. They know people like yourself will gobble it up, as it re-affirms your stance on the subject.

    I agree that some Unions have occasionally gone too far in the past, but to dismiss them all as "a blight on our society" is doing our society a huge disservice. Collective bargaining is a necessary and legitimate force in a fair, capitalist regime such as ours.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    6:38pm
    Arbee the average job pays around $50 000 a year. I looked it up.
    An OAP couple get $32 000 and they don't have to work.

    There are around 42 management jobs at over $130 000 and then there is the top 14 and boy do they skew the average pay scales with there over $300 000 salaries.

    You have to be very careful with averages.

    Wasting money on imported ice cream from Europe isn't in my budget.
    Theo1943
    8th Nov 2017
    9:14pm
    Arbee, "typical labor party names? " "standover Union thugs?"

    What the hell is the matter with you?
    arbee
    8th Nov 2017
    9:25pm
    Janran, then I hope you never have to experience what I did years ago when union reps came into my business (transport company) & said either have all of your drivers join the union or we will blacklist your vehicles at every unionised place of business that you pick up from or deliver to. They may not be so blatant now but still have ways of achieving the same result. At the meeting with the union rep every driver said we do not want to be in the TWU, but they were told join up or we will put this company out of business and you won't have a job anyway. We were told as an extra penalty for not having your drivers in the union previously you can also pay their union fees until we decide otherwise.
    Read the article before you make wide ranging statements as you have.
    I wish you good luck with your business and know it is even harder now to survive than it was when I was in business.
    I always try to buy Australia made wherever possible, but it is getting much harder now to find.
    Janran
    9th Nov 2017
    10:20am
    Thank you, Rae, for checking the ACTUAL average factory job pay at Streets ($50K p.a., not $100K).

    And thank you arbee, for wishing me well. Most Aussies want to buy Australian, but unfortunately, the bottom line dictates family budgets. It's especially the case these days, with the casualisation of the workforce and as permanent jobs are becoming rarer each day, people are insecure about the future and don't want to spend their hard earned $$$.
    Pendrey
    8th Nov 2017
    11:16am
    John Alexander obviously has dual citizenship, he can find out easily, and has done nothing.
    It is a simple matter to find out your status, the politicians so far caught are incompetent. The money earned whilst serving in parliament when not entitled to should be refunded.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    3:17pm
    He's had plenty of notice - no excuse.... Adios Muchacho.. Hasta La Vista, BABY!
    GeorgeM
    8th Nov 2017
    3:18pm
    Agree, the politicians caught so far are all incompetent and dishonest as they did not take the effort to fill out their Employment Application Form correctly. The Constitution is perfect in this area and no change is needed.

    I also agree that all money earned SINCE THEY WERE FIRST ELECTED needs to be refunded. An Audit must be conducted independently and immediately. Following the audit on existing MPs, another audit should be taken for all Past Politicians who are still collecting perks & pensions.

    All who fail the audits should be sent a bill for recovery of taxpayer funds - using the Centrelink Robo-debt recovery approach.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:21pm
    I always love to see these petty despots hoist on their own petard, George... gladdens my old heart that has seen many ways and woes to see some of these swine get it where it counts.
    Pamiea
    8th Nov 2017
    11:26am
    I absolutely think an audit is necessary. Politicians have never been known for their honesty. Forget a referendum - complete further waste of money. This Government are an absolute JOKE lead by an even larger Jokster.
    Rickrick
    8th Nov 2017
    11:26am
    Let's not forget back in early 2000s special legislation was passed removing drag queen Tamara tonites right to run in politics despite having run twice before under that name that he had taken by deed poll
    He was an Australian citizen and Eric Abetz took exception to this
    He was removed from the electoral roll as his name was considered frivolous fictitious and not in the public interested
    Wonder how many now disqualified politicians pushed that legislation through in record time

    Where is the justice
    Pamiea
    8th Nov 2017
    11:26am
    I absolutely think an audit is necessary. Politicians have never been known for their honesty. Forget a referendum - complete further waste of money. This Government are an absolute JOKE lead by an even larger Jokster.
    Pamiea
    8th Nov 2017
    11:26am
    I absolutely think an audit is necessary. Politicians have never been known for their honesty. Forget a referendum - complete further waste of money. This Government are an absolute JOKE lead by an even larger Jokster.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    11:28am
    I think you may have made you point Pamiea.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:45pm
    Now Mick, You are a veteran here. You should be well aware that accidental double clicks or a very slow response make people click again. Maybe she is connected to the NBN.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:18pm
    I have personally done a double before. This is a triple with twist.
    Paulo
    8th Nov 2017
    11:36am
    Renouncing foriegn or other country citzenship is not as simple as most people seem to believe. For example the proper forms and $300 are required on application to the UK Home Office. The chances of any change to the Constitution is zero. Malcolm has devised a smart move clearly placing the responsibility and cost on the individual elected politicians.
    What has not been discussed however is verifying that all retired politicians were legally elected and are therefore proprly qualified to receive their paliamentary pensions and other perks.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:49pm
    I wouldn't worry Paulo. Politicians can afford it. Anyway it would possibly affect only the independents as the parties would probably re-reimburse anyway.

    Would you pay $300 to get a plum job of up to $200k and a pension for life. I think I would.
    solmon52
    8th Nov 2017
    11:37am
    An election would do nothing to solve the issue. If the high court had of layed charges for perjury it would make each and every polotician stand up and check their heritage before stateing other.
    Of cource i have my own view of what criteria we should change the constitution to we would have a disagreement about Australian values versus who is Australian.
    The best would be to deny dual citizen full stop.
    KSS
    8th Nov 2017
    12:51pm
    And 'punish' millions for the actions of a very few?
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:20pm
    I would agree with that Solomon.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    3:21pm
    I would also agree with that, Solomon.

    Australian or you don't get a shot. No appointment to political office or public service.

    Now - historically speaking, you are beginning to see why one facet of (gasps) National Socialism was installed... too much goddamned fandango with too many foreigners with no idea of the running of Das Reich!

    Just saying ... keep an eye on that kind of thing...... it's all right until it falls into the wrong hands..... in fact, looking at the true patriots here, I'd suggest most are national socialists first and foremost - but without the NAZI tinge.
    Kathleen
    8th Nov 2017
    11:48am
    We need to go back to the polls! It is a mess, and has gone past the point of no return.
    Obviously, on entering parliament or rather when the consideration hits you then you need to do the thorough check. We just did it for a member of our family.
    Both sides of our family have used the well known ancestry site to check.
    My grandfather was born in Ireland which made my father Irish and if I had taken up the opportunity to claim Irish citizenship then my children would also be Irish.
    Pretty straight forward!
    Labor, it seems, has got a system of checks in place. The Greens are now doing it and I am guessing the rest will be more vigilant in future.
    Fisherman
    8th Nov 2017
    11:49am
    It is obvious the current bunch of Federal politicians are an unethical bunch, and need get an Ethics 101 certificate before they can be eligible for election. Signing a Stat Dec under the current circumstances is meaningless when it is obvious the current bunch consider themselves above the law. I still travel on the British passport the Australian Defence Department bought for me when I was flying in Vietnam in the '60's. Now I have a Stat Dec from Immigration saying I am eligible to apply for an Australian passport, having arrived in Australia from the UK well before 1964. Having paid income tax since 1962, I get annoyed when politicians waste tax payers funds. Unless politicians start looking after the interests of the Australian electorate instead of those of the City of London, I don't see a happy future for my fellow travellers!
    Rosret
    8th Nov 2017
    11:51am
    No - By-elections are much cheaper. No fuss no advertisements on TV and just fix it.
    I still believe the High Court have misinterpreted the section. In 1901 there was no such thing as an "Australian citizen". It fact it was not introduced until January 1946 post WWII. Most were either British or of British parents and they just had to renounce their loyalty to another country.
    It is interesting we outsource our government contract labor to foreign countries and that seems OK and yet these Parliamentarians have an exemplary record and the entire turn of events may disrupt the entire government and cost Australia $millions.
    I think it is irresponsible of the High Court and they should have found a way to call an amnesty until all Parliamentarians checked and fixed their status.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:52pm
    Ah! What would we do without lay lawyers.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:52pm
    Ah! What would we do without lay lawyers.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:53pm
    Dammit Mick my old hand trembled and I clicked twice
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    12:55pm
    Just a point people when your screen returns and you see your comment twice there is a "remove" link so you can remove one of them if you wish.
    Old Man
    8th Nov 2017
    1:05pm
    I had the same problem with my knees this morning Wstaton.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:23pm
    The disorganisation and incompetence of our current government is costing us billions Rosret and won't be fixed easily.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    2:26pm
    They have no interest in fixing it just like they have no interest in bring the budget back into the black other than by taxing working Australians.
    Rosret
    8th Nov 2017
    5:06pm
    Not just a lay lawyer Wstation - a lay High Court Judge. hehe
    abro
    8th Nov 2017
    11:52am
    I agree with other comments: change the rules.

    The main thing is if you're Australian. That's the point.

    For how if you were something else and that other nation refuses to consider you ever as being other than them?

    You could do nothing about it.

    That, in fact, is the situation regarding Muslims, isn't it? For they belong to Islam first, foremost and forever. That's just a fact. According to their book.

    The point should be that you're an Australian.

    From then on you're covered by Australian Law. And I'd assume that means that you must never swear fealty to any other nation or organisation that professes aims contrary to the sovereignty of Australia.

    That is, you can't have two masters.

    Your conduct during your life manifests whether or not you think you have two masters.

    If you once belonged by birth or declaration to some other master once you've made a declaration for Australia and been accepted then it's end of story.

    If the other master refuses to relinquish his assumed hold that's too bad but not pertinent.

    Generally its more common for other masters to refuse to keep you on their books. Chinese citizenship, for instance, being forfeit the minute you swear loyalty to Australia.

    There's no need for anything more than changing the rules where they say you can't have ostensibly two citizenships. I say again: because it may effectively be beyond your power and its a nonsense anyway inasmuch as effective citizenship always presumes acquiescence to all relevant rules, regulations etc.

    Hence where rules, regulation whatever would come into conflict one or other citizenship would lapse.

    And considering that at a guess all nations would require that you'd support them in times of war then notionally every dual citizenship is invalid inasmuch as you could never really support both if they were at war.

    Hence it is all a nonsense when taken to the minute particular as they're doing now.
    john
    8th Nov 2017
    1:07pm
    No Abro , your first sentence is so wrong and you can't see it. Its a rule it can't be broken , you never never never change the goal posts so you can win. These politicians who didn't know, or who lied or were just in a rush to get signed in , they have all committed and offence to the constitution , and you want to change the rules to suit , the FOOLS. change the RULES for FOOLS. NOT A CHANCE.
    JOHN ALEXANDER NEEDS TO STEP DOWN NOW TODAY , JUST THE FACT THAT THERE IS A BIT OF SMOKE , MEANS THAT THERE'LL BE A FIRE SOMEWHERE.
    BEECUASE HE HAS JUMPED IN TOO, AND DIDN'T READ WHAT HIS OBLIGATION WAS,
    john
    8th Nov 2017
    1:13pm
    PS Abro
    this is not about other nations like England or New Zealand or Italy or Canada , its about following the constitution to the letter. There is no excuse.
    You are finding excuses everywhere, for me just that one stupid mistake, means get out of my parliament and let sensible thorough people into parliament.
    These folk simply expect to rule, well they can't .
    As far as Muslims are concerend they'd want to be renouncing their citizenship from any Muslim country pretty quick , if they wanted to be in parliament. Even that's a worry , that is a religion not a nation! BUT?????????????????????
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:26pm
    We can have a $120 million waste of money postal vote on homosexual marriage but we cannot amend and fix the conflicts in the Constitution? Welcome to malfunctioning government in action.

    I agree with dual citizenship being outlawed. Either you are an Australian or you are not. THIS NEEDS TO BE ATTACHED TO THE NEXT ELECTION to keep the cost of fixing it down. My worry is that the current government and even Labor do not want to fix the mess. That opens up a whole barrel of questions.
    Triss
    8th Nov 2017
    4:19pm
    It would be interesting to see, down the line, how any refugees, one s who tore up and destroyed their passports, birth certificates, etc would fare as a budding candidates.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:27pm
    Ah, Abro - you've hit upon the allegiance to the nation of God/Allah or whatever you wish to name this deity.

    Some time ago I stated that Australian citizens who went to fight for ISIS etc had rescinded their Australian Citizenship by committing themselves to a religious State Without Borders - as the Islamic State is, self-proclaimedly being a Nation of Allah Without Borders.

    Pretty straight-forward to me.
    floss
    8th Nov 2017
    12:04pm
    How can this mob run a country when they can't even fill out their job application form. God help Australia the Libs can't.
    Janran
    8th Nov 2017
    12:52pm
    I agree, floss. They should have to return the money and perks they've received while illegally in office. And undo legislation they have presided over. It's a huge waste of time and money, but so are the other alternatives like another election. Barnaby Joyce (and Turnbull) are especially at fault of wasting time and money, by not making Joyce stand down from the Ministry as soon as he was referred to the High Court.

    I think all of them who wrongly signed the form did so in ignorance, but ignorance (and an attitude of entitlement) is NO EXCUSE. They are getting paid to REPRESENT AUSTRALIANS! All they had to do was renounce any claim to dual citizenship - it's not difficult.

    Again, the Greens are the only political party whose Senators put up their hand to admit they were in the wrong AND STAND DOWN IMMEDIATELY. But not the Coalition or Hanson's clowns! Oh no, they feel entitled to act without conscience or humility, as usual!

    It's bad enough that a foreigner, The Queen, is our Head of State. I have nothing against the Queen personally except that she's not an Australian and therefore doesn't uphold Australia's interests above her own country's.

    I hope federal politicians continue to be barred from office if they have dual citizenship. Simply don't stand for Federal Office if you can't bear to relinquish your dual citizenship and the benefits you derive from having it.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:27pm
    Arrogance is the one word answer. 'We' are the government is the response. This lot in particular are of the opinion they are born to rule so commoners should go away.
    roy
    8th Nov 2017
    3:18pm
    Speaking of arrogance, nobody but nobody is as arrogant as you.Please read your posts MICK, sheesh.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    3:38pm
    Direct and arrogant are two different things. You might want to read what passes for comment from some of the posters who i give a serve to when appropriate.
    If you have an opinion based on fact no issues. If you troll or post for a political employer then you will have an issue. There is a difference!

    You may wish to put up some genuine evidence or convincing facts roy rather than propaganda. I'll happily argue this and respect your position even if we disagree. Put up propaganda and I'll call that out for what it is. Sorry. Call that arrogant if you wish.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:30pm
    Pardon me, Roy - is that the chat that chewed your Libs new ones?
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:35pm
    Pardon me, Roy - is Mick the cat that chewed your Libs new trews?

    I thought they did that for themselves...
    Travellersjoy
    8th Nov 2017
    12:24pm
    Election please.

    The LNP is incompetent, except at gifting to their cronies, and barely believable most of the time.

    Let a decent party with a public service basis stand up and be counted.

    I choose very carefully before I vote for a good rep, not just a party.
    john
    8th Nov 2017
    1:02pm
    Then Travellers joy , beware Bill Shorten!
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:30pm
    Kidding john? Whilst I support neither side the better of two evils is clear.
    Have you not been listening for the past 6 years and have you not seen the current lot for the massive liars they are, doing business for the rich and the coal industry whilst running the country into the ground and creating new debt on steroids, not that the mainstream media ever mention that.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:30pm
    We need a new party.....
    ex PS
    13th Nov 2017
    2:28pm
    Time to scrap the lot and start again. If you can't do something as simple as ascertaining your nationality, you definitely should not be representing Australians.
    People have been demonised by this government for not filling out a Centrelink form correctly, why should they think that they should get away with not checking their own right to stand for Parliament?
    The same community standards should hold for voters and politicians.
    Crimmo
    8th Nov 2017
    12:40pm
    This whole country runs on self regulation, which means that you can basically do what you want until you are caught out doing the wrong thing. Welcome to Australia.
    Priscilla
    8th Nov 2017
    12:45pm
    Much ado about nothing! Politicians are just wasting time on inconsequential rubbish instead of running the country. So much needs to be done and it seems that Labor is intent of finding ways to ensure the country is in limbo! Cannot believe they get such big salaries for doing nothing constructive.
    john
    8th Nov 2017
    1:01pm
    Seriously Pricilla, you must be joking, the Labor party are not to blame for people who think they have the right to just walk into politics and a safe lifetime income, and they can't fill out a form properly, they think like you????They think that we should just scrape aside any stupid little rule that doesn't suit, your comment is unbelievable , and there are others coming believe me.
    No one with duel citizenship can be in parliament and help run the country, ITS THE LAW, steal a dollar or a million dollars , its stealing?????? Also these people should know better, shame that you and some others only see this as a silly little nuisance , it is not, THEY HAVE FAILED IN THEIR DUTY OF CARE TO THE CONSTITUTION BY NOT HAVING THE SENSE OR THE FORE THOUGHT TO READ THE RULES and follow them!
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:34pm
    A bit unfair to blame Labor for THE PAST 6 YEARS Priscilla. I recall Gillard actually governed. All that Abbott did was repeal perfectly good legislation because it did not benefit his sponsor. As for Turnbull he does zip because he knows many of his MPs are controlled by the coal industry and he knows that he cannot solve this, so he vacillates rather than govern.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:27pm
    What has Labor got to do with any of it? The LNP has been in power for nearly two terms.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    6:31pm
    News Flash - Breaking News ....... the LNP are the government and thus hold 100% responsibility....................
    Jake
    8th Nov 2017
    12:47pm
    Section 44 is fine. Anyone who cannot understand it..Needs to NEVER BE IN POLITICS. Anyone who cannot complete a clearly set out form... Needs NEVER TO BE IN POLITICS.
    The laziness of LNP.. due to their mantra ' Born To Rule' are the main offenders. It's good to see the author saying what I've been demanding since the deputy pm remained in office 'After Knowing He was Breaking Constitutional Law. BAN from Politics.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:35pm
    I suggest it is likely arrogance rather than laziness. Never been a real issue so why worry boys.....
    john
    8th Nov 2017
    12:54pm
    THE WHOLE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT THESE PEOPLE HAVE EITHER BEEN UNINFORMED OR LIARS. THE PROBLEM THEN BECOMES AN HONESTY PROBLEM AND IF THERE IS A SLIGHT SUGGESTION OF DISHONESTY THEN THEY MUST GO.
    There is absolutely no defence for any politician here! None what so ever. There is no need to change the constitution because some politicians make mistakes or Lie, or are to stupid to read the instructions.
    If people in politics say we should change the rule , then they themselves are showing themselves as those who think they can move the goal posts when anything looks bad for them.
    They should be ashamed of their dishonesty or their stupidity.
    Power at any cost, and we know these political people are nest featherers !
    All of them whether citizens or not, Bill Shortens people as well, the only pity about this next election is that, an individual, unfit to be PM, Bill Shorten , may just fall into the office.
    And that will be a tragedy for honesty and the union rank and file of Australia.!
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    1:02pm
    I concur with you about Shorten just shows how stupid even the labor party. If Albanese had been the one in the last election then Malcolm Turnbull would not be PM now and maybe we would not have been going through this rubbish.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:38pm
    Liars is on the money!
    Shorten? He may not be a very forceful public figure but he appears to be honest and somewhat humble. That is a commodity neither of the last 2 in this government have been.
    Born to rule? More like unfit to rule where the current crop are concerned.
    Janran
    13th Nov 2017
    4:40pm
    As you say, john, "THESE PEOPLE HAVE EITHER BEEN UNINFORMED OR LIARS. THE PROBLEM THEN BECOMES AN HONESTY PROBLEM AND IF THERE IS A SLIGHT SUGGESTION OF DISHONESTY THEN THEY MUST GO."
    I think there's a huge difference between those who found out about the possibility of their dual citizenship status and put their hand up straight away, and all these others, in particular Parry (who was the President of the Senate AND REFERRED THE OTHERS TO THE HIGH COURT!!!). He shouldv'e been banned for life and same with John Alexander, for wasting Govt. time and tax-payers' $$$. Labor is not in the clear yet, either.
    I also think there should be punishment for Turnbull saying Barnaby Joyce would be OK to stay, instead of standing him down until the High Court made it's decision. How arrogant was that?
    We need our representatives to have integrity and respect for the law. They are OUR servants, after all, and we pay them very handsomely.
    I am sick and tired of this Government pointing blame elsewhere, as if we're stupid enough to be distracted from their gross incompetency, from one disaster to another. So many disasters, in fact, that it's easy to forget just how many disasters they've been up to their necks in! We've already long forgotten the Michaelia Cash error - too many new disasters have followed. And in there, they still managed to put down our Aboriginal people's request for recognition, so now that's gone by the wayside in the blink of an eye.
    Maybe Trumbull learned this "look over there! I can see some clickbait poo" tactic from Trump?
    KSS
    8th Nov 2017
    12:58pm
    This is a genuine question:

    If you renounce your citizenship, can you, at some later date, apply to have it reinstated on the grounds of parental (or even grandparental) succession?
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    1:07pm
    That's a point KSS. A lot of Politicians would jump at this. Renounce it then when no longer a politician with all the pension benefits etc renounce the renounce and gain benefits elsewhere.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:39pm
    Not if you make dual citizenship illegal for Australians. Perhaps somebody has an understanding of WHY this has become fashionable as it makes no sense. You are either a citizen of a country or you are not.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:29pm
    Yes MICK. It's a current trend to want your cake and want to eat it as well. It doesn't work.
    Rosret
    8th Nov 2017
    5:10pm
    I wondered that too KSS. MICK its only unconstitutional for Parliamentarians.
    Hairy
    8th Nov 2017
    1:02pm
    The dishonesty of some australian(questionable)politicians (also questionable performance)should be sacked no pension no super these people are criminals .travel Rory’s spending taxpayers money just as they like without penalty .Malturd you and short of a brain and the escaped mental patient greens need to be all stripped of your entitlements for driving Australia into the shit pen.you are all culpable a total bloody disgrace to this country
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    1:11pm
    Well I guess the point here. What happens when an outed politician renounces then loses a bye election would they then still get their parliamentary pension?
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:41pm
    Fair comment. Maybe they should receive the old age pension. Means tested of course. That would be a fitting punishment. Only fair.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    6:05pm
    Hmmm... Not sure how my comment got here. Must have been a tremble again.
    Aussie
    13th Nov 2017
    4:07pm
    I just wonder ........

    Turnbull is of direct paternal Scottish descent; his great-great-great grandfather John Turnbull (1751–1834) arrived on the Coromandel in 1802 in New South Wales and became a tailor. In an interview in 2015, Turnbull said that his middle name "Bligh" is a tradition for generations, named after Governor Bligh who was much admired. During his childhood, he practised Presbyterianism; he converted to Roman Catholicism upon marriage.
    David
    8th Nov 2017
    1:16pm
    When the constitution was written it was considered appropriate that we not have citizens of other countries making our laws and decisions on matters such as foreign affairs, due to real or perceived conflict of interest. I think that that is wise. Therefore I would not want to see the constitution changed. Also, the constitution cannot be changed without a referendum.
    Perhaps an easier fix is to enact a law which states that once a person becomes an Australian citizen, either by being born here or by naturalisation, they no longer hold citizenship of any other country, unless they personally apply to hold dual citizenship. In the case of minors, their parents can apply for dual citizenship for their children, but this automatically ceases upon them reaching their 18th birthday, at which point it is up to that individual to apply for dual citizenship if they so desire, in other words, the situation is reversed in that dual citizenship is not automatic, but must be asked for. Problem solved.
    If the above were the law, no-one could claim that they did not know they were a dual citizen.
    As for the current situation, why can't our politicians join together in a bi-partisan agreement that places the onus on every currently elected parliamentarian, plus those running for the soon to be held by-elections, to check their personal citizenship status and take steps to have it rectified (by either resigning and re-standing in a by-election; or in the cases which are not clear-cut, by asking the High Court to rule). The penalty for anyone failing to do so and later found to be ineligible could be immediate dismissal from parliament with a (say) 5 year ban on seeking re-election.
    Problem solved, and I'm sure that following all this hula-balloo it will never occur again.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:42pm
    Totally agree. I am willing to bet that dual citizenship may benefit rich Australians doing business overseas and this is why it is never challenged. I am happy to be proven wrong on that hunch though. Only conjecture.
    David
    8th Nov 2017
    1:48pm
    I agree with you David that the constitution is clear and there is no need to change it.
    I also like your suggestion to pass a law that if you are an Australian citizen, you are automatically disqualified from being a citizen of another country.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:31pm
    I agree. That way our government can never be a foreign Nation.
    libsareliars
    8th Nov 2017
    1:36pm
    Yes there needs to be a complete audit - not what MT is currently proposing. Seems he doesn't know how to lead.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    1:43pm
    MT appears to be hiding something he does not want to get out. The way to find out is to have a complete audit. If not why not?
    Anonymous
    13th Nov 2017
    3:36pm
    Love your moniker "libsareliars". They truly are!!!
    mr.auspicious
    8th Nov 2017
    1:53pm
    Calls for an early election represent " phoney news " - it's hypothetical musing that typifies
    tabloid journalists and bloggers aspiring to become pulp fiction writers.

    Let's deal with one salient fact - as long as the government can survive a vote of no
    confidence in the lower house, an early election is a remote possibility.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    2:27pm
    Maybe. This lot knows it is terminal and that it will lose an election so it will try to string out the agony as long as it can.
    Rae
    8th Nov 2017
    2:39pm
    They are desperate to get that $60 billion tax cut over the line so Labor will face a destroyed economy.

    Also to get Adani sorted out with a billion or so gift.
    MICK
    8th Nov 2017
    3:42pm
    Labor will repeal tax cuts for the rich. If Shorten were to back flip on that he would lose his credibility. Given that Labor believes in a fair go for working Australians I doubt whether he would sell out those are are going to put him into office. We'll soon see either way Rae.
    Virginia
    8th Nov 2017
    2:48pm
    Bit of a joke the queen is our head of state and she is British ....
    What was the intention of the constitution.. Back since federation there would have been a larger % of dual citizens than just Australians..
    GET REAL
    Virginia
    8th Nov 2017
    2:52pm
    We have all these so called aboriginals getting all the perks that First Citizens get even though none of them are 100% .
    Lets look at the handouts and legal ramifications of a person only 12 1/2 % first citizen but getting all the benefits.
    TREBOR
    8th Nov 2017
    2:58pm
    At least it wasn't a fish and chip shop (ta-boom, tisssh).

    On the serious side, since Baa-Baa was caught with his citizenship pants down, all under a cloud, who feel any 'need' to waste time and money (not theirs) on a court hearing when they already know the facts, should stand down.

    Honour demands it (there's a good opener for someone...)
    Hilily
    8th Nov 2017
    4:34pm
    It is not the Constitution that is wrong.
    Those who wrote it could never have envisioned we would have a Parliament where politicians were too lazy to look up their ancestors or thought they could get away with lies about their forebears.
    Keep the Constitution and get rid of those who ignored or lied about the rules,
    mr.auspicious
    8th Nov 2017
    5:47pm
    The Constitution was a product of its era and it's fair to say much
    has occurred in the intervening 116 years.

    A Constitutional overhaul is long overdue if for no other reason
    than to ensure the basis for government and public administration
    is in keeping with the reality of the 21st century.

    Make no mistake this would be a monumental task but politicians
    always shirk the challenge - probably as a matter of self
    preservation. By any reasonable standard the country is over
    governed - a federal parliament as well as six state parliaments
    that frequently follow counter productive agendas. It's situation
    tailor made for 19th century parochialism but serves no useful
    purpose - unless you happen to be a state member of parliament,
    or an advisor to a state member of parliament etc.etc.

    Think of the overall savings to the taxpayer if state parliaments
    were made redundant. One country - one federal parliament
    elected democratically and ( hopefully ) capable of implementing
    policies free from the interference of recalcitrant states.

    Too good to be true but any political party with courage and vision
    should accept the challenge.

    8th Nov 2017
    5:16pm
    New election - GREAT IDEA! Kick the incompetent, bumbling Lieberal-Hillbilly COALition morons out and put Labor back in. At least they know how to run a society; the other mob couldn't run a chook raffle.
    MjP
    8th Nov 2017
    5:47pm
    I don't see how holding an election will solve the problem, after all all of these people signed a declaration last year saying they were eligible to nominate. Surely all politicitians and aspiring politicians need to provide proof of where they and their parents were born in Australia, or if not then a statement from the embassy etc saying they don't hold citizenship or are not eligible to claim citizenship of that country.
    Wstaton
    8th Nov 2017
    6:16pm
    I cannot believe that there wouldn't be in depth checks if an election was forthcoming. But there again after all they are politician and some have just proven how stupid they are.
    Janran
    9th Nov 2017
    10:37am
    Aspiring politicians SIGN A DECLARATION, for heavens sake! Why aren't they charged with dishonesty and immediately expelled?

    The Greens are the only Party to have acted with dignity and respect for the law of the land. All the others are scoundrels, unfit for Office.
    Aussie
    8th Nov 2017
    5:52pm
    Now you people are in agreement with me for what I have been saying for a long time ..... let became an independent Republic and set up our bill of rights and more and more ...... wowowowo about time we are waking up that the monarchy is great but is totally out of date to the realities of this century.

    Let change the constitution is a YES from me

    Get rid of this useless government is also a YES from me
    floss
    8th Nov 2017
    5:57pm
    Hard to say what their next blunder will be ,it would be funny if only it wasn't effecting the Country.
    floss
    8th Nov 2017
    6:04pm
    Get your head out o the sand arbee and join the real world.Perhaps a lot of the Libs are not Australian citizens they cerntainly don't act like it.
    Cat
    8th Nov 2017
    9:23pm
    You could actually be right Floss. That would be the real bizzare twist if all of these MP's had to prove that they are Australian citizens. Being born in Australia does not entitle anyone to citizenship anymore - that was de-legislated decades ago. If any of them are relying on that to say that they are Australian Citizens - they are wrong! They had to have at least 1 parent as an AU citizen or permanent resident at the time of their birth to be an Australian citizen and they did not have to be born in Australia for that to be the case - they could be born anywhere but the parent had to have that AU citizenship or permanent residency at the time of the birth - that is the law. Unfortunately dumb hick sentimentality seems to rule this country and that is the real reason why these MP are not fit to be in Parliament.
    Cat
    8th Nov 2017
    9:15pm
    Your father coming here as an infant does not devoid him or his descendants of foreign citizenship. To ignore that, and instead assert some blind sentimentality as fact is behaving like a dumb hick. I am so glad that the High Court did not accept the dumb hick argument put forward by Barnaby and others.
    4b2
    9th Nov 2017
    8:37am
    Each of thr political parities need to demonstrate they have processes and paperwork in place to ensure their candidtes are legally cleard to stand for election. The government also needs to pass a bill to disqualify any politition from receiving their retirement benefit if found to be in breach of the constituion. For example it has been reported The Kiwi Joyce has received around $28 million in salary and benefits sine he has been in parliment. If had not decided to recontest his seat he would be entitled to a large perlimentry pension. This should be stopped, he should be returned his contribution and his start date should be the date of his election should he win. Unlike the senators who cannot be reelected, they should not be entitled to a pension as they also have been taking their salary and entitlement fraudently. Any member of the public who breaches the law ispenalised, so why not Polititions. If this type of penality was introduced this would not hapen in the future. We dont need to change our constituion we need to change the system.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2017
    8:58am
    There were no Australian citizens when the Constitution was written so who is the Constitution referring to? British Citizens? So do we throw out all those without British citizenship?

    It wasn't to the 1940s that people become Australian citizens.
    Linda
    9th Nov 2017
    11:19am
    If there is any idea of changing the rules that must come after the current mess is resolved. The rule must hold for now and I do think a new election could resolve all the uncertainty.
    I like the idea that one must not be a duel citizen if they wish to serve in parliament. I am cross that so many were so lax about the rules.
    HDRider
    9th Nov 2017
    1:18pm
    Most of you are missing the point, this is a SIMPLE MATTER OF LAW. Stating a FALSE DECLARATION, which, believe it or not is a VERY SERIOUS OFFENCE in this country regardless of who or what you are!
    Go and make a false declaration to Centrelink, the Police etc, see what you get for it, then ask yourself WHY a pollie should be treated differently!
    The Queen, the Governor General the Head of State have NOTHING to do with this rule, WHY do people even bring then into this Rule 44 argument, read the HIGH Court ruling, respect the law and be done with it.
    Old Geezer
    9th Nov 2017
    2:14pm
    Remember the High Court Ruling is just that a ruling which given a different set of judges could have been a completely different ruling.
    Aussie
    9th Nov 2017
    3:26pm
    Well in most other countries is the same .... so why are we different ... I agree if you have a dual nationality ....can not be a politician unless the law and constitution accept that

    Sorry for my spelling and English construction ... I also have a dual he he he he
    Radish
    12th Nov 2017
    8:39am
    Like everyone I have spoken to...I am sick of this whole fiasco...just call another election...period!

    Lets get on with governning the country...enough time and money has been wasted on this and also the SSM debate.

    If politicians had their ears to the ground they would know that in general people are sick of both subjects and want to move on.
    Aussie
    12th Nov 2017
    5:28pm
    Radish ... I totally agree but since Bob Hawke that I believe he listen to us (The people) ... I make this assumption because he was elected and re elected many times (1983, 1984, 1987, 1990) and thus making him the most electorally successful Labor Party Leader in history.

    After 1990 the country when down and down and here we are now totally F...up.

    Maybe BH was not the best and he got his errors and mistakes but there is no questions on my head that he look after the people of Australia .... that make him my prefer PM ever .....

    Many people will disagree with me ... is ok this is my believe

    Today politicians are seat warmers and only work to ensure they continue warming there desk seats .... disgusting and insulting to us the people of this great country .... but many of us vote for them .... ......
    Aussie
    12th Nov 2017
    5:33pm
    Interesting information about Bob Hawke and elections in 1984 and 1987 ..... The history is repeating today ...have a read the paragraph ... "1984 and 1987 elections ..... Hawke benefited greatly from the disarray into which the Liberal Party ....."

    Look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hawke .....

    Interesting history ... They never learn anything .....Seat warmers
    Aussie
    12th Nov 2017
    5:38pm
    Radish .... Dual nationality .... oh oh oh they did not know about the law oh oh oh sorry sorry I am not sure I have dual nationality ..... wowowowo

    ..... This is prove to me that they are only seat warmers ......

    No research, No reading the law about electoral requirements ........ is so easy even I know that I can not be in politics because I have a dual and never renounce it ....
    ex PS
    13th Nov 2017
    2:32pm
    I have no problems with dual nationality, but I have a big problem with politicians thinking they can ignore a law because it does not suit them. They were either ignorant of the facts or just arrogant, either way they do not deserve to represent me.
    Aussie
    12th Nov 2017
    6:17pm
    Just in case you wonder about the AEC ......

    THE AUSTRALIAN ELECTORAL COMMISSION (AEC) DOES NOT HAVE AUTHORITY TO CHECK CANDIDATES BEFORE ELECTIONS ...........

    The AEC does not have the authority to check ... all is left to the Attorney General to check and ensure candidates comply with section 44 of the constitution .... What the Attorney General did in this election ??????? ...NOTHING ..... ANOTHER SEAT WARMER

    Quote from the AEC web site ... http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/Elections.htm#eligibility

    Why doesn’t the AEC check the eligibility of all candidates at an election?

    The AEC administers the federal elections according to the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 (the Electoral Act). The Electoral Act does not provide the AEC with the authority to conduct eligibility checks on potential candidates.

    The eligibility of candidates is addressed in Section 44 of the Constitution. The Attorney General’s Department administers the Constitution and the AEC cannot disqualify a candidate relying on the operation of section 44 of the Constitution. The AEC is subject to the requirements of the Electoral Act. Section 172 of the Electoral Act sets out the only grounds upon which the AEC is able to reject a nomination of a candidate. Those grounds do not include disqualifying a candidate under the Constitution. Any disqualification of a candidate due to the operation of section 44 of the Constitution can only be determined by the High Court after an election.

    It is also worth noting that there is no data source available that would enable comprehensive candidate eligibility inquiries to be made in a timely and accurate way. The difficulty of such a task would also be exacerbated by the requirements of the election timetable specified in the Electoral Act, which provide for candidate nominations to be made less than a week prior to the start of early voting.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wowowowo set up in 1918 ...99 years old ... totally out of the realities of this century

    According to this anybody can be a candidate as long he/she is Australian ..... I beleive is time to stop wasting money and change the AEC eligibility of candidates that way we do not spend lots of money changing the constitution or royal commissions or any other expense .... Just change the AEC eligibility and that will cure the problem .... just make the AEC responsible as it is in many other countries in the world .......


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