Comment: Retirees hurt by tax cuts

Cuts will see retirees fall further behind, writes Kaye Fallick.

Retirees hurt by tax cuts

On Wednesday, the Australian Senate voted in favour of the full three tranches of tax cuts for Australian workers. Stage one of the tax cuts – for those earning less than $126,000 – would be applied within the next few weeks. Stage two, effective from 2022-2023, involves a combination of changes to income thresholds and tax offsets. Stage three would start in 2024-25 and involve the removal of an entire tax bracket that would deliver big cuts for those with an income close to $200,000.

The total cost to the taxpayer over the next six years is $158 billion.

So what is the background? And what does it mean for retirees?

This is a policy that was taken to the electorate in May by the Morrison Government. And as this Government was re-elected in its own right, it is fair to assume that most Australians approved of all three tranches of cuts. But did retiree voters really consider the ramifications?

Initially opposed in total by the Opposition, under then leader Bill Shorten, more recently a chastised Labor Party argued for the first two stages to pass the House, but for the third stage to be split from the bill as it is beyond the next scheduled federal election.

Labor’s position is irrelevant however, as the Government has an outright majority in the House of Representatives, so the crossbench of the Senate is where the voting power lies. And three senators in particular have now wrangled deals with the Liberal/National Party in return for a yes vote to the full tax-cuts bill. Two Centre Alliance senators have requested a cap on gas prices and received an undertaking this will happen. Independent Senator Jacqui Lambie demanded relief for the $157 million Tasmanian social housing debt and has reportedly received an undertaking that this will be honoured. So, on the promise of receiving these two concessions, the three senators voted in accord with the Morrison Government.

At one level, you could say this is great news for workers, particularly those who will be more than $1000 better off when they file this year’s tax returns. Over time, those earning more will receive even more back.

But what about those on disability benefits, Newstart and the Age Pension?

Nada.

Zip.

Nothing.

And this is where this legislation is so very wrong for our nation. We are spending an eye-watering amount of money to refund tax to some who need it and many who don’t.

But those with the least will receive nothing as they do not usually get tax refunds.

They are not working because they are out of work – many for more than a year. Or they cannot work – most retirees leave the workforce due to ill-health or lack of a suitable job.

The Newstart payment has not increased in more than two decades.

The base rate of the Age Pension has not been increased since 2008.

And with yet another rate cut by the Reserve Bank on Tuesday, pensioners are even worse off as they are deemed to earn far more than market rates deliver. As YourLifeChoices has reported time and time again, the deeming rate has not been lowered since 2015.

Yet older Australians are continually told to hold some assets in cash in case of emergency.

If it wasn’t so serious and, at a cost of $158 billion so eye-wateringly expensive, this decision could be viewed as a farce.

We were told during the recent election that the only party that could be trusted to manage the economy was the LNP.

And so Australians voted it back in.

We are now told that the economy is in dire straits.

Both statements can’t be true. It has either been in safe hands – or it hasn’t.

Well managed or not.

We are also told that the health of this economy is dependent on tax cuts for all workers on low incomes or high incomes, passing as one piece of legislation – the full enchilada – or it won’t get the kickstart it needs.

Yet Anglicare research confirms that the poor are doing it tougher than ever.

And most economists agree that the fastest way to stimulate spending is to give relief to those who have least, as they will spend it immediately on essentials.

So why, oh why, are pensioners not even on the radar when it comes to stimulus packages?

Is it because they are old?

Marginalised?

Or simply don’t matter to our masters in Canberra?

Are you bewildered as to why  pensioners have been left out of this legislation?

If you enjoy our content, don’t keep it to yourself. Share our free eNews with your friends and encourage them to sign up.

RELATED ARTICLES





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    in2sunset
    5th Jul 2019
    10:09am
    In answer to your question - So why, oh why, are pensioners not even on the radar when it comes to stimulus packages?

    Is it because they are old? YES

    Marginalised? YES

    Or simply don’t matter to our masters in Canberra? ABSOLUTELY YES!

    Are you bewildered as to why pensioners have been left out of this legislation? YES, BUT NOT SURPRISED

    And the above answers directly relate to why the Govt won't change the deeming rate - seniors are seen as a soft target, easy to steal from.

    I don't care what anyone says - there is absolutely NO incentive for seniors to work part time (with the hefty slashing of pension rate, and then tax), and if they have managed to save something for their retirement, the govt does their best to find ways to take it.
    I would still work if the Govt had kept the Pension Bonus Scheme. I missed out by 6 months. Those friends of mine who did get it, swear it made a huge difference to their financial status. Now - no incentive. Just punishment. Plus now the added fear of Centrelink coming back in X years to come, with a Robodebt, saying they have made a mistake. (as happened to my elderly aunt that I help care for. CL was proven wrong). What also concerns me is the govt constantly changing the rules. You cannot plan for your future.
    Bridgit
    5th Jul 2019
    11:40am
    in2sunset I heard Morrison is going to look at the deeming rates with a view to reducing them!
    How far they will drop it only time will tell - but at least they are looking at it.
    Chris B T
    5th Jul 2019
    11:54am
    in2sunset
    When GST was introduced Sales Tax was Removed, then we will LOOK into Stamp Duty.
    They LOOKED and IT IS STILL THERE.
    LOOKING is Just That, no mention of Revising In The Words Used so No Lie Was Told.
    Just words to shut up the Media Questions.
    On the Ball
    5th Jul 2019
    11:58am
    in2sunset:
    You missed the most important reason. Seniors usually vote conservative, so giving them anything is wasted (in vote terms).
    Just in case, add a bit of scare tactics (Seniors' Tax) and the seniors can be absolutely relied upon to vote LNP. (An inflated deeming rate is just that - A seniors' tax!)
    Now a quote: "Labor was losing votes - as were centre-right parties - to people vulnerable to identity politics.

    "When people are feeling insecure ... those insecurities are being fanned in social media and by under-the-radar campaigns in ways which override the economic concerns of those people." They tend to vote conservative.
    And pensioners would be the most insecure - they/we have to be. We usually have dependents, we have a limited life-span and a fixed amount of assets to rely on.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    12:19pm
    So true On the Ball, we reap what we sow at the ballot box so no good complaining.
    arbee
    5th Jul 2019
    1:22pm
    Chris BT, you conveniently forget that when GST was originally brought up, it was to be on everything, but the opposition and cross benches watered it down by taking a lot of things out of the scheme. Sales tax, stamp duty and payroll tax were all to be eliminated with the full GST on everything, but with the watering down of it there was not enough money to achieve all of the promises. So I would suggest you direct your complaints to those who amended the original plan. Sales tax was a Federal tax, and was eliminated. The other two were state taxes and the states could only drop them if the GST take was high enough.
    Chris B T
    5th Jul 2019
    1:47pm
    arbee
    What complaint other Than The Use Of The Word "LOOKING"
    RosePerth
    5th Jul 2019
    1:58pm
    I couldn't agree more about the pension bonus scheme. I was one of the lucky ones. I ended up working well past my required 5 years and retired with a nice sum. Some months later I was offered a part time job but my PBS money was not required to be given back as I had legally retired. As I had very little super due to my age, it's been a nice nest egg. My friend, who is younger than I, missed out by probably about a year on the scheme.It was a great incentive to keep working if you were able to and certainly saved the Government more in unpaid pension that it cost them to pay out the bonus. I could never see the benefit (to the Government) of changing to the current scheme where you are just allowed to earn a little more before it affects the pension....but greater minds than I.....
    GeorgeM
    5th Jul 2019
    11:02pm
    Good comments, in2sunset, have to agree with all your answers. The key point is why "...seniors are seen as a soft target, easy to steal from."
    It's because Seniors including Retirees vote like zombies for one or the other Major party even though BOTH Labor and Liberal parties have attacked Retirees regularly, possibly because Retirees haven't figured out that they CAN use their strength (being 20% of the electorate) to vote OUT the sitting MP of these Major parties by using the preferential voting system sensibly.
    It is also because these crooked parties have successfully put retiree groups against each other e.g. Pensioners against SFRs, etc. Very much evident in the YLC posts as well.

    This system can only be broken if Retirees join in together to demand a common benefit such as Universal Age Pension without bickering amongst themselves, thereby getting the politicians out of the area of Age Pension rules altogether.
    GeorgeM
    5th Jul 2019
    11:15pm
    Actually, if Labor were smart and had the right focus on fairness, they could drop their extreme climate change & radical gender policies, and simply do the following 2 things and get re-elected next time by getting the votes of the majority of Retirees (many of whom especially SFRs do vote for Libs):
    a. Promise to reverse the Asset Test changes of Jan 2017, or better still implement Universal Age Pension with NO tests other than Age (65 years) and Residency (say 15 years),
    b. Promise to reverse the 3rd stage of the Tax Cuts which were just passed saving $95Bilion!
    Question is - do they have the brains, or are they going to remain tied to their extremist policies ensuring a long time in Opposition.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    2:13pm
    Not a question of brains, GeorgeM. It's a question of corrupt vested interests. They could have easily won the election if they had wanted to. But they begged and pleaded with the voters to vote against them.

    The sad thing is that implementing a universal aged pension and reversing the third stage tax cuts would give a massive boost to the economy. Add an increase to Newstart, which would help people into jobs rather than disincentivize them because crushing someone is never going to help them find work, a modest increase to all pensions, and a decent increase to the interest rates (accompanied by a solid relief program for anyone with a home mortgage who they could no longer service) and we'd see huge economic improvement immediately.

    But I read that the World Bank is now insisting governments introduce a staged program to abolish cash. Why? Because people won't leave money in banks at negative interest, and negative interest is coming soon. So they need to abolish cash so you can't withdraw your funds. Get ready. You think things are bad? You ain't seen nothin' yet!
    Not a Bludger
    5th Jul 2019
    10:33am
    Geez - talk about the permanent moaners & groaners of the press.
    I, for one, think that the glass is much more than half full not the reverse.
    That tax cuts are very good particularly for my children, their partners and grandchildren.
    We oldies have had our go - let the others have a turn.
    TREBOR
    5th Jul 2019
    11:09am
    If any of them had half the 'go' some of us had - they'd be dead and buried.....
    bob menzies
    5th Jul 2019
    11:09am
    I think there is much merit in your statement - the fact is the economy is weak - Reserve Bank can't do much more on monetary policy with offical interest rates at 1% (as low as the great depression from 1930 to 1938. So Federal government and State government have to implement stimulus fiscal policies and that involves giving taxpayers more of their own money back - the rationale is that they will spend it and stimulate the economy (that is what has happened in the past). This aged pensioners who own their own home are not badly off - it is those who rent in retirement who are doing it really tough. I am not a fan of increasing Newstart - we have to find ways to incentivise people to want to get out to work.
    TREBOR
    5th Jul 2019
    11:31am
    So those who 'invest' their income tax saving in an overseas trip or put it into dead stock serial house ownership, offshore shares and other areas that pay no other taxes - will be=ring benefit to the economy?

    It would be nice to simply say that people should get out to work - but the reality speaks otherwise - with more than ten applicants for one job - and not all applicants in any way suited to each job... easy to say there's a job for a lawyer - how many unemployed are qualified as lawyers? I've been offered jobs as an RMO and a locum here - I'm not qualified to practice or give out prescriptions... so the issue is moot.....
    On the Ball
    5th Jul 2019
    11:50am
    Agreed, BUT...
    The vast majority of the $158 BILLION goes to the mega-wealthy who will NOT spend it but simply bank it. Good for the rich bankers. Bad for the workers.
    If they benefit for the economy is so great, why not just implement the first and second stages? The third stage wont only not benefit the economy, but will slug it.
    I have kids that work as well. This measly $1080 per year wont even replace a month's lost penalty rates.
    Most of us retirees would only dream of 1 million dollars. The cost of this package is 158 THOUSAND times that! ($158,000,000,000)
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    12:20pm
    Speak for yourself Not a Bludger, some oldies have never had a go as you call it.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    12:24pm
    With job losses forecast due to technology and a wsorsening economy, how do you expect people to get jobs bob menzies?, not as easy as saying incentivise people unfortunately.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    12:25pm
    Gee from where I sit the oldies have had it way too easy and had more than a go.
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    12:40pm
    paraphrasing Trebor, if we had half the 'go' some of us had - we would also be dead and buried ... just saying ;)
    Paddington
    5th Jul 2019
    12:44pm
    There is no reverse NAB because there is no such thing as half empty. Half of nothing is?
    Also, the lowest paid are not getting enough. Everything they get they spend.
    To prevent a recession we need to do more. We need to spend. Who spends?
    Labor was right to try to bring forward part B and hold off on the last one as too far off anyway. They still benefit from the first two parts.
    Another group that keeps getting put forward are the people looking for jobs. Maybe reward them for their efforts which would encourage them rather than making them feel so worthless. Aim at the youth in particular because they need that first job. When they apply they get some money, when they make the first interview a bit more, etc. and if they try to build their skills then give more incentive/reward.
    Why create an underclass?
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    12:58pm
    On the Ball says "the vast majority of the $158 BILLION goes to the mega-wealthy", well that depends what you consider mega when an estimated 96% of Australians learn less than $156,000 and we know that $200,000 is no longer considered "the top end of town". Only $26B or 17% of the benefit goes to those with incomes over $200,000.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/10/coalitions-income-tax-plan-will-gift-highest-earners-33bn
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    3:36pm
    Quick with the insults aren't you arbee and as I told you once before I have worked hard all my life, my first job at 15 I used to walk 3 miles there and back, I lived in a small country town, no transport, my family never owned a car. I started nursing at 16 and have worked at that profession and also as a school assistant until I was 63, my husband worked in the mountains in snow and rain until he was 70 so DON'T YOU TELL ME I DON'T LNOW WHAT HARD WORK IS, and I am not complaining about my lot but people who are worse off. I could say a lot more but I won't stoop to your level of insults arbee.
    Intellego
    5th Jul 2019
    4:05pm
    The Lieberal trolls and toadies are out in force here today.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    10:27pm
    whinging grandmother, Older and Wiser, Only Genuine Rainey or whoever you call yourself these days and arbee, neither of you have a clue about my finances so don't even try to speculate because both of you would be wrong.People shoul not make insulting comments about other people's lives that they haven't got a clue about.
    Ardnaher
    6th Jul 2019
    12:32pm
    i think it is a good idea...the tax cuts...the economy needs stimulating and in the end if people start spending everyone will benefit.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    1:55pm
    Ardnaher the govt gives with one hand and takes away with the other, so many people will have their wages cut because the are losing theuir penalty rates, I don't think they will be racing out to spend do you?.
    Ardnaher
    6th Jul 2019
    2:07pm
    i have no idea what people will do with their tax refund...everyone is different.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    2:21pm
    Exactly Ardhaher, everyone is different so it will be interesting to see if the tax refunds do stimulate the economy. Apparently the ATO has been so inundated with people calling about the new tax changes they are not taking any more calls until things quiten down.
    Ardnaher
    6th Jul 2019
    6:13pm
    makes me wonder if there are a lot of very dumb people out there if they have to ring the tax office...it is clear what will happen...if you earn a certain amount your tax will be this or that....or maybe there are some out there who think that the amount will miraculous appear in their bank accounts all of a sudden and wonder why it has not. there has been enough mentioned in the media of what the new taxes will be.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    6:45pm
    Well Ardnaher the gov t and media advertising can be a bit confucing if you don't follow or listen closely, a lot of people will think they are getting the $1080.00 tax refund regardless of what they earn but it doesn't work like that, people earning up to $37,000 will get %$255.00, the refund gradually increses uo to $51080.00 for people earning up to $48,000 but decreases then for people earning between $90,000 and $126,000, after that their is no special tax rebate. These are 1 off rebates for this tax year and each following year unless changed.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    6:51pm
    Sorry about the mistakes, should be "confusing" and $1080,00 not the $51080,00 above, left an "a" out of increases and put an "o" instead of a "p" in up. Haven't got my new glasses yet and the light is not good in this room.
    Paddington
    11th Jul 2019
    9:17pm
    Jumping in here to defend Misty! Nasty OGR as usual aimed at pensioners and at people like Misty. Full pensioners usually do it tough unless they have extra funds and income.
    If it was such an enviable State then more would divest themselves and aim for the pension. Also, it is very judgmental to decide people have been wasteful because they are on the pension. All they may have managed is to have a roof over their heads and their children well educated.
    Nurses have never been highly paid and many women take off years with childbearing and child rearing. It is not for any of you to judge others. And there is no shame in receiving a pension which is put straight back Into circulation.
    Misty
    11th Jul 2019
    9:42pm
    Thanks for the support Paddington, I do appreciate it.
    Misty
    11th Jul 2019
    9:56pm
    Thanks again Paddington but did you see what Sydst has written about my comments at the bottom of thes posts and it seems OGR, O and W, whinging Grandma is now here anonymous.
    Gra
    5th Jul 2019
    10:43am
    If we aren't paying tax how can we expect to get tax relief? Be real.
    TREBOR
    5th Jul 2019
    11:18am
    If you genuinely want to stimulate spending into THIS economy - give the poor a pay rise.... gee... some of the might even buy a new microwave that the fat cats don't need .... and help retailers out....
    cupoftea
    5th Jul 2019
    11:49am
    franking credits
    cupoftea
    5th Jul 2019
    11:49am
    franking credits
    Paddington
    5th Jul 2019
    12:46pm
    Ha ha, I thought that too. I have not put in a tax return for five years.
    Theo1943
    5th Jul 2019
    2:17pm
    Gra said "If we aren't paying tax how can we expect to get tax relief?"

    That seems to work for non-taxpayers who get franking credits.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    4:26pm
    If you have franking credits you are a taxpayer. That is the only way you can get them.
    Golden Oldie
    5th Jul 2019
    5:24pm
    To get Franking Credits you have to be a shareholder with shares in a company that pays Australian tax.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    5:48pm
    I have friends who are on the govt pension, pay no tax but have shares and get the Franking Credits Old Geezer.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    6:06pm
    Yes they have to fill in a tax return to get them refunded so they are a taxpayer.
    Sundays
    5th Jul 2019
    6:48pm
    Except that they will not be getting the $1080 that other taxpayers will receive, just the refund of Franking credits
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    7:15pm
    So they arer not taxpayers then Sunday?.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    7:17pm
    Actually they don't even need to fill out a Franking Credit form now the ATO does it for you.
    Sundays
    5th Jul 2019
    7:42pm
    Not real ones Misty, they don’t qualify for the low and medium tax offset because they don’t pay tax!
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    9:52pm
    If they didn't pay tax, they wouldn't get franking credits.

    Joe works and has shares paying $100 in dividends, so Labor says he pays tax and the nearly $43 deducted from his dividend and sent to the ATO is tax and claimable.

    Fred is retired and has shares paying $100 in dividends, but Labor says the nearly $43 deducted from his dividend and sent to the ATO is NOT tax. Then what the f... is it, idiots? It's deducted from income in the same way. It's sent to the same ATO. It's not fried eggs or mashed bananas. It's TAX stupid! It can't be one thing if taken from Joe's income and something different if taken from Fred's.
    Sundays
    6th Jul 2019
    8:59am
    Yes, you get to keep your Franking credits. Move on! The election is over.

    The article is about Tax cuts which includes $1080 offset for Paye Taxpayers which they will receive until 21/22 then a reduction in tax for 2 years. You don’t qualify unless you have taxable income. Shares alone are not counted.
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    12:46pm
    MAybe time to do what Rudd did and got us out of the doo doo -- and was never given credit for it -- time to do it again me thinks --

    But the Libs don't think ahead like that -- they are only interested in the top end -- they have even taken penatly rates away from those that are trying to "HAVE A GO"
    Old Geezer
    10th Jul 2019
    10:17am
    The $1080 is tax offset so you have to have tax levied for it to be offset against.
    Laura
    5th Jul 2019
    11:05am
    There’s that sentence again, “THE TOP END OF TOWN”. Tut! tut!
    Mamacrystal
    5th Jul 2019
    11:26am
    Laura, whilst that may annoy you, it is a lot more acceptable than what some people might want to call them :}
    Dobbie
    5th Jul 2019
    11:27am
    Agree Laura ...
    Tanker
    5th Jul 2019
    11:53am
    The so-called "Top end of town" really describes those who are the top earners in the community. They have access to no end of means to minimise their tax already and given that our economy is slowing down largely because wages have stagnated and the ordinary person's confidence is low spending has also stagnated.
    Now the top end of town is inline for tax cuts they don't need despite the economy suffering at the moment with potentially worse to come.
    Abbot used to trot out "class warfare" when attacking unions but the stage 3 of these tax cuts is a form of class warfare.
    Tanker
    5th Jul 2019
    11:53am
    The so-called "Top end of town" really describes those who are the top earners in the community. They have access to no end of means to minimise their tax already and given that our economy is slowing down largely because wages have stagnated and the ordinary person's confidence is low spending has also stagnated.
    Now the top end of town is inline for tax cuts they don't need despite the economy suffering at the moment with potentially worse to come.
    Abbot used to trot out "class warfare" when attacking unions but the stage 3 of these tax cuts is a form of class warfare.
    Paddington
    5th Jul 2019
    1:01pm
    TOP END OF TOWN are real and it is an honest description. They usually pay no tax either. They are better at avoiding tax than the little guy on minimum wage. Who are they?
    They are in the minority but have majority of the wealth. Why shouldn’t the worker who has no means to avoid tax feel envious or bitter!
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    1:07pm
    Tanker, what is the cut-off to be considered a "top earner in the community" when 80% earn less than $78,000?
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    10:00pm
    According to the Labor Party it's about $18,000 p.a if you happen to be a self-funded retiree struggling to live off share dividends. You're the 'top end of town', with less than $450,000 to last you may be the next 30 years and an income way below the OAP.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    10:01pm
    Even less than that if you are one of a couple.
    TREBOR
    5th Jul 2019
    11:08am
    Already said we need MORE tax brackets to take up the slack from the excessively fat who also get all the good deals to even reach their taxable income - division of society into the rich and poor is proceeding apace, it seems.

    This is not a fixing of 'bracket creep' with the abolition of an entire bracket (the top one, of course) - this is a fundamental change in direction for income tax in Australia.

    I've already posted elsewhere that the unemployed should be compensated as well - didn't mention pensioners since that goes without saying, except in SloMo's lexicon, where they are considered a new form a gutter rat....

    Noted with a laugh the 'coffee shop manager' who blithely said she was planning to take the family away for an offshore trip in October and this would really help (giggle, giggle) - so any 'stimulus to the local economy' is, as usual, a pipe dream,and making more people more affluent is having the opposite effect to encouraging spending here - unless they are so poor they have no other choice.

    Giving an extra handout will not mean more spending into the local economy - it will mean more spending on luxury tours into Offshoreland and purchases from Offshore, and more hoarding of extra cash into dead stock (such as serial house ownership or shares in offshore corporate parasites and leeches or into family companies and trust that end up paying nothing) that pays no taxes and employs buggar all......

    Stoopid is as stoopid does..
    bob menzies
    5th Jul 2019
    11:15am
    eventually we will have a flat tax rate where it will be 30% from 30k to 200k - this will be aspirational to workers to try getting higher wages - wish this was in existence when I was working - I can recall 60% tax coming in at relatively low levels - I remember my first pay packet of $2.38 per fortnight and then getting over $250k some 30 years later and paying tax that paid more than 4 old age pensions. These new tax rates would have saved me thousands.
    Previously returning tax back to the owners namely the taxpayers has resulted in increased retail spending and I believe it will do so again this time.
    TREBOR
    5th Jul 2019
    11:25am
    A single tax rate and equivalent salary cuts is something I mooted years ago... but no fat cat on a big salary and high tax would ever come at that, since their salary is their kudos...

    Workers won't be getting higher wages due to tax cuts - they'll still be treated the same as now - as worthless parasites and mouths to feed and who whine endlessly making business soooo hard ...

    Most people won't be getting much out of this, and it will soon be sucked up anyway with rising costs... a lose-lose situation I've explained over and over.

    Bracket creep is one thing - a structural change to income tax is another - and I don't agree with Albo that it is 'fiscally irresponsible' - the world, contrary to the dreams of politicians, does not run around 'their' budget - but around OURS... the people they work for. They need a fundamental shift in thinking so as to absorb that simple reality.... and a responsible approach to income taxation would be to charge a high rate, including several higher levels, from those who already enjoy heaps of deductions to even get to their taxable income - either that or remove the deductions altogether and make it a level playing field. (Joe Bloggs the field hand doesn't get to deduct his car to go to work, or his home office, or his meals away from home, or depreciation on his equipment (gasps).......
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    11:45am
    It is simply stupid to have a tax bracket higher than the company tax rate of 30% as the wealthy will just use companies instead of being paid as an individual.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    2:06pm
    So the tax system is broken. That's NOT a reason to make it more unfair by reducing taxes on the wealthy.
    Thterbl
    5th Jul 2019
    11:18am
    As the Hon. John Howard once said "Mandate is illusory". There are people who either vote deliberatrely informal or do not vote at all - There are rusted on voters who vote tribally - and there are sheeples who make up their mind on their way into the polling booth on the basis of the latest scare campaign or horoscope or whatever. Ask Andrew Bolt or consult the IPA. To say the Australian electorate chose this form of economic management is like saying one chooses to catch Measles.
    TREBOR
    5th Jul 2019
    11:27am
    There is no absolute mandate - the only mandate any political party has is what the people vote directly on - all else is whimsy ...

    I'm an Equal Opportunity Employer of political parties - I vote for NONE and I oppose each Party equally for not doing the job. Consider me unforgiving, but both majors have manage to offend me thus far in life.... and have yet to change their ways one iota...
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:26pm
    We didn't give any 'mandate' by voting AGAINST the evils of the Labor Party. We simply expressed disapproval with the only alternative presented. Doesn't mean we agreed with the LNP's policies. Where was the referendum on tax cuts? How many voted for them in a referendum solely on that issue?
    Dobbie
    5th Jul 2019
    11:25am
    My understanding is that "Your Life Choices" is meant to be an information portal for seniors, pensioners and those of us creeping up in years. Perhaps I'm wrong ... Seems we should add that it is a biased political commentator too. The opening line in the email includes "benefits – mainly the top end of town – " in referring to the tax cuts. Can't we just get the information without the snipes and lefty tilt? We are old enough to make up our own minds about the politics and comments here won't change the balance or our minds. I was over the election hype by 19th May, so am tired of the bemoaners, whether readers or writers, continuing to get their little snipey digs in. Can we please just have the facts ... without the bias?
    Rosret
    5th Jul 2019
    11:38am
    Yes - illogically biased. Lucky we are old and wise.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    12:28pm
    Some may be older but certainly not wiser.
    Paddington
    5th Jul 2019
    1:03pm
    But the right tilt is ok? We have to swallow that although it is lacking morals.
    If you look at what left means you will see it is about fairness and compassion. I prefer that tilt!
    arbee
    5th Jul 2019
    1:27pm
    You are absolutely correct, and it is not hard to see who the left wing supporters on this page are. Mainly the have nots, because they have not worked hard enough, or prudently put enough away to be comfortable in retirement now.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:31pm
    Fairness and compassion? From the Labor Party and Greens? You are deluded Paddington. The left brought in the shockingly cruel and unfair means tests. Remember that? The left wanted to grind all self-funded retirees who are not wealthy into hardship and misery by stealing up to 30% of their income - forcing them onto pensions and costing the nation a small fortune compared to the tiny benefit that would have let them be independent. The left wants to make property prices crash. I could go on and on. No. There's no 'fairness' or 'compassion' anywhere. Not right. Not left. Not middle. Everything in today's world is about greed and self-interest, and feathering the nests of the privileged.
    KSS
    5th Jul 2019
    2:37pm
    Agree. But the thing is, it us not in the remit of this site to be anything but negative. Everything here says the sky is falling whether it is or not. And the real problem is it is read by a load of expert wingers for whom nothing is ever enough.
    OnlyDaughter
    5th Jul 2019
    3:05pm
    And it’s not hard to see who the dyed-in-the-wool right-wing Coalition supporters are either. These people need to know that a significant portion of the community has lived hand-to-mouth for all of their working lives and has never had the opportunity to stash money away for their old age, particularly since compulsory superannuation only commenced in 1992. It is all very well being smug and self-righteous because you have had the opportunity to stash funds away for your retirement through good superannuation, high salaries earned or sheer frugality, but there are a lot of older retired people who have not. I am one of the lucky ones but I still feel the pinch with low interest rates and low returns on investments.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    3:38pm
    Spoken like a true right wing supporter arbee.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    9:46pm
    What rubbish, Only Daughter. People on minimum wages with large gaps in their earning years due to unemployment or illness still managed to pay off a home and save a healthy sum for retirement. Virtually nobody who is now retired lived 'hand-to-mouth'. I know women who lived their whole life on a widow's pension and still paid off a mortgage and saved. Plenty of folk who had no superannuation and low wages still saved - yes, through frugality. And they should not be penalised for doing that. Nor should wasters be rewarded. Welfare for those who suffer illness, disability, natural disaster, etc. is fine, but in Australia it's handed out as a reward for being a spendthrift, and the spendthrifts scream that the savers should be robbed to fund it.
    Ardnaher
    8th Jul 2019
    3:13pm
    Anonymous...I agree with you...there are many who did not think about the future and bugger tomorrow. I am sure we all know the ones who spent every night at the pub after work and were also smokers. I have zilch sympathy for those. I do have sympathy for those who through no fault of their own could not get ahead through illness etc but I believe they are in the minority.

    For those who say young people cannot buy a home....I find that a load of rubbish. You need to be forward thinking and have a plan like this young man.

    Read this:

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/you-have-to-start-thinking-ahead-how-a-maccas-worker-on-500-a-week-bought-his-first-property-at-19/news-story/17df39ef63a8b3ce61b7eb3cc1c2e21d
    Alexii
    5th Jul 2019
    11:34am
    The best way to stimulate the economy is to give relief to those with a greater propensity to spend and not to those with a greater propensity to save, The former group are those on low wages, Newstart and pensions because all of them are most likely to spend any extra dollar they earn (ie greater propensity to spend). However the government plans to ignore again those on Newstart, pensions and so on and to give great relief to those on high incomes.

    That group on high incomes tend to have a high propensity to save and a low propensity to spend because when they get the extra dollar (like an extra $10K per year) they7 don'f need to spend it as they are already buying everything they need and want so they will just add it to their savings and shareholdings and in turn the extra interest and dividends will add to their wealth.

    The LNP have a wonderful system to aid the wealthy and be damned to the poor! As well they are not doing as they claim to be doing and that us giving the economy a boost.
    Rosret
    5th Jul 2019
    11:51am
    This is the normal tax bracket creep adjustment. Its been happening since money was deemed the method of transacting sales.
    1985
    Income tax payable
    $0 - $5200 NIL
    $5201 - $17000 26 cents for each $1 over $5200
    $17001-$32000 $3068 plus 38 cents for each $1 over $17000

    2018
    Resident tax rates 2018–19
    Taxable income Tax on this income
    0 – $18,200 NIL
    $18,201 – $37,000 19 cents for each $1 over $18,200
    $37,001 – $90,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000

    Its not new. Its just the media are still sucking sour grapes because the nation didn't vote the way they wanted us to do.
    Alexii
    5th Jul 2019
    5:22pm
    If a person is getting less than the tax threshold then any change in tax threshold or in tax deductions for others are irrelevant. The government is flattening the progressive tax system to favour those on higher incomes. Perhaps we'll eventually have what Joe Bjelke Petersen wanted decades ago - a flat tax of 10%. Great for the rich and bloody shocking for the poor.
    Ardnaher
    8th Jul 2019
    3:15pm
    ......but what a great incentive to get ahead knowing that no matter how much you earn you will only pay a certain amount...
    Rosret
    5th Jul 2019
    11:36am
    It is just the normal bracket creep adjustment in line with global income brackets.

    Does it hurt retirees - of course. We are a global society that works on the pyramid scheme of inflation so we never really pay for what we loan.

    However everyone retiring know this will happen and we count on the super fund providers getting their members a reasonable return to offset inflation.

    At the moment there is a perfect storm - bracket creep, artificial inflation, historically low reserve bank rates, surreal house prices and high energy costs.

    This should mean that bracket analysis should be applied to all welfare allowances. From Children's allowances to Centrelink pension supplements. After all council rates and train fares are all about to go up in line with the CPI.
    HKW
    5th Jul 2019
    11:41am
    Pensioners simply don’t matter to our masters in Canberra !
    Rosret
    5th Jul 2019
    11:54am
    Of course not. Retirees are a burden on society.
    However they still keep fixing us so someone must care about the elderly.
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    1:16pm
    and retirees will continue to be unimportant while they remain loyal to Canberra when handing out their votes rather than influencing policy development
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    11:42am
    It is about time the workers of this country got a tax break so good on the LNP.

    I just can't believe how much those on welfare whinge. Want better then get a job or earn some extra income as you already get enough from the taxpayers.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:35pm
    Speak for yourself. Many of us don't get anything from the taxpayer, and many more don't get nearly enough. Most workers are doing just fine - living way better than today's retirees with their overseas holidays and coffee shop breakfasts.

    Progressive tax and a strong welfare system is the recipe for a healthy society. We had just that in the 60s. We slashed taxes again and again and again and look where that got us!
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    3:57pm
    The progressive tax system is not good as it just makes the wealthy invest and earn in other more tax effective ways.
    Sundays
    5th Jul 2019
    4:11pm
    Everyone gets something from the taxpayer Whingng grandma. Who do you think helps fund health, transport, education, infrastructure etc. if there were no taxpayers, this country would go backwards. Whether tax receipts are spent correctly is another thing!
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    10:05pm
    And workers on high incomes get far more benefit from taxpayer-funded health, education, transport and infrastructure than the lower paid and certainly way more than most self-funded retirees, Sundays. Which is why progressive tax is fair. It taxes those who are most able to pay and those who enjoy the most benefit from publicly funded resources.
    Old Geezer
    6th Jul 2019
    9:09am
    No a progressive tax is not fair at all. If you work hard then you should not be penalised by being tax more.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    2:04pm
    Nobody is penalised by progressive tax for working hard, OG. People who earn big dollars DON'T work hard. They ride on the coat tails of the underpaid hard workers, and now they want those same underpaid hard workers whose coat tails they ride on to pay their taxes for them as well. Pure greed.

    Genuine hard workers support progressive tax systems, because they understand that tax is the price of living in a civilized society and having access to public resources. And only those who enjoy superior access to resources paid for by taxpayers have the opportunity to earn more, so it's fair they should pay more.
    Old Geezer
    6th Jul 2019
    10:08pm
    Self employed people don't pay any more tax than the 30% company tax rate so tge progressive tax system doesn't work. I certainly don't and don't know anyone who does.
    Anonymous
    7th Jul 2019
    8:38am
    Which only proves the tax system is broken, OG. Broken by greedy rich folk who insisted on introducing all sorts of rorts to avoid paying their share. The progressive tax system works when it is operated correctly. And it's the fairest and most economically beneficial system there is. It doesn't work in developed countries to day because the rich are too selfish to pay their share. And you are proof of that, since you boast that you pay less than your fair share given the high income you regularly boast about.
    Old Geezer
    10th Jul 2019
    10:18am
    Why should people who work hard be penalised by extra tax? That is stupidity at it's best.
    london
    5th Jul 2019
    11:42am
    All politicians have got a pay increase, now taxpayers will be better off and pensioners got nothing.Is that fair
    kinkakuji
    5th Jul 2019
    11:43am
    Where are all the Federal Australian politicians these days?..what is the latest scheme of nastiness they are dreaming up..aside from charging retirees insanely high deeming rates to reduce their part pensions……oh here’s something Scumo declares Jesus told him , you all must die….hmmm When’s this global warming supposed to kick in, I’m freezing.
    kinkakuji
    5th Jul 2019
    11:43am
    Where are all the Federal Australian politicians these days?..what is the latest scheme of nastiness they are dreaming up..aside from charging retirees insanely high deeming rates to reduce their part pensions……oh here’s something Scumo declares Jesus told him , you all must die….hmmm When’s this global warming supposed to kick in, I’m freezing.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    12:18pm
    Deeming rates have nothing to do with interest rates but are based on the rates people get from their investments. If I only got 3.25% I'd be very annoyed with myself.
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    12:55pm
    OG, you talk a load of absolute rubbish -- of course, the deeming rates have everything to do with interest rates!

    I have a BANK account -- and I am deemed to be getting the DEEMING rate --- I AM NOT GETTING ANYWHERE NEAR IT!!! I get 0.3% NOT 3.25% can't even get that on a term deposit!
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    2:01pm
    PlanB, OG is an arrogant and self-centred old man. He can't get it through his thick head that not everyone has had the opportunities and benefits he enjoyed, and those with limited funds to invest simply don't have the option of risking their tiny nest egg in ventures that pay much more than bank interest. You should feel sorry for him being so ignorant and out of touch with reality, but the problem is it's people like him dictating policy - people who have had it all handed to them on a platter and simply can't conceive that others aren't so lucky.
    Old Geezer
    10th Jul 2019
    10:20am
    Everyone has the opportunities I have had and the only reason they didn't take them is laziness.
    Old Geezer
    10th Jul 2019
    10:21am
    Everyone has the opportunities I have had and the only reason they didn't take them is laziness.
    Rosscoe
    5th Jul 2019
    11:44am
    Dobbie - What about the bias from SkyNews (we refuse to watch it now), the media (especially the Murdoch Press, which we certainly don't buy) and the rest of the crawlers in Australia. Not to mention Clive Palmer, who couldn't pay his workers, but manage the manipulate the election. Money talks!
    Rosscoe
    5th Jul 2019
    11:44am
    Dobbie - What about the bias from SkyNews (we refuse to watch it now), the media (especially the Murdoch Press, which we certainly don't buy) and the rest of the crawlers in Australia. Not to mention Clive Palmer, who couldn't pay his workers, but manage the manipulate the election. Money talks!
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    12:56pm
    That sky news is so biased it is off the chart
    Mikko
    5th Jul 2019
    11:44am
    Whatever the state of the economy and the plight of the economy, both would be so much worse if voters didn't have the good sense to dump Shorten's big taxing plans with Labor's primary vote the worst in 100 years. I didn't hear any Labor promises to increase the pension, but we all knew about ending dividend imputation, increasing capital gains tax and restricting negative gearing to new properties. Plus an uncosted over-reach on climate policy which would have had zero effect on our climate but a big hit to our wallets.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:38pm
    Agree with that Mikko. And Labor said outright they would not reverse the 2017 assets test change, even though they CLAIMED to disagree with it. They certainly offered NOTHING to pensioners.
    kinkakuji
    5th Jul 2019
    11:45am
    ISSUES WHERE MORRISON HAS MADE NO COMMENT
    1. Silent on Paris Climate Accord
    2. Silent on subsidising renewables
    3. Silent on high power prices destroying manufacturing
    4. Silent on Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act
    5. Silent on a weaponized Human Rights Commission (stifling free speech)
    6. Silent on out of control immigration levels
    7. Silent on Political Islam, Islamic terror, FGM, child marriages
    8. Silent on Sharia Law and Halal schemes
    9. Silent on police protecting moslem no-go zones
    10. Silent on rape and murder of white SA families (murder of those reporting it)
    11. Silent on the persecution of Christians
    12. Silent on influence of China on politics and national security
    13. Silent on destruction of the Australian education by crackpot curriculums
    14. Silent on the seual of school children via Safe Schools program
    15. Silent on the degradation of Western Civilisation from K-12 and University
    16. Silent on dams and water supply across Qld and SA
    17. Silent on uranium, coal and gas that would boost our prosperity
    18. Silent on damage to the ADF, suicide of veterans, anti-malaria medice scandal, French submarine debacle and the LGBTI agenda (New Minister is big on Human Rights)
    19. Silent on the ABC and the abuse of its own Charter
    20. Silent on the UN which is just a tool for globalist agendas
    21. Silent on Social Media censoring conservative voices
    22. Silent on vote fraud
    23. Silent on full term abortion (he’s a Sunday Morning Christian?)
    NOTHING MUCH HAS (OR WILL) CHANGE FOR TURNBULL DAYS
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    11:47am
    None of those issues are relevant to the majority of Australians.
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    1:20pm
    interesting observations and your point is???
    KSS
    5th Jul 2019
    5:12pm
    And what is the position of Mr Albanese with regard to all these with the exception of Bill Shorten's disastrous climate change policy?

    What is he doing about the encouragement of the denouncing of the binary sexuality and the encouragement of the destruction of society as we know it for example. Or perhaps what are his views on the stifling of free speech in general and in universities in particular? And what has he said about deeming rates?
    I could of course go on but what is the point?
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    5:51pm
    Speak foy yourself Old Geezer many Australians would find the majoriy of the issues listed above relevant.
    kinkakuji
    5th Jul 2019
    11:45am
    ISSUES WHERE MORRISON HAS MADE NO COMMENT
    1. Silent on Paris Climate Accord
    2. Silent on subsidising renewables
    3. Silent on high power prices destroying manufacturing
    4. Silent on Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act
    5. Silent on a weaponized Human Rights Commission (stifling free speech)
    6. Silent on out of control immigration levels
    7. Silent on Political Islam, Islamic terror, FGM, child marriages
    8. Silent on Sharia Law and Halal schemes
    9. Silent on police protecting moslem no-go zones
    10. Silent on rape and murder of white SA families (murder of those reporting it)
    11. Silent on the persecution of Christians
    12. Silent on influence of China on politics and national security
    13. Silent on destruction of the Australian education by crackpot curriculums
    14. Silent on the seual of school children via Safe Schools program
    15. Silent on the degradation of Western Civilisation from K-12 and University
    16. Silent on dams and water supply across Qld and SA
    17. Silent on uranium, coal and gas that would boost our prosperity
    18. Silent on damage to the ADF, suicide of veterans, anti-malaria medice scandal, French submarine debacle and the LGBTI agenda (New Minister is big on Human Rights)
    19. Silent on the ABC and the abuse of its own Charter
    20. Silent on the UN which is just a tool for globalist agendas
    21. Silent on Social Media censoring conservative voices
    22. Silent on vote fraud
    23. Silent on full term abortion (he’s a Sunday Morning Christian?)
    NOTHING MUCH HAS (OR WILL) CHANGE FOR TURNBULL DAYS
    Rosret
    5th Jul 2019
    12:04pm
    You have obviously copied and pasted this from somewhere(USA or CP fan club). All I see is 23 dot points on hate.
    Time you chose one of those dot points and went out and lobbied for what you consider to need changing. We may not agree with you as this is a democracy but to be filled with all these negative thoughts is not good for your health.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    5:55pm
    If you listen too, watch TV and read the newspapers Rosret, these negative thoughts as you call them cannot be avoided, they are mentioned every day in one form or another of the media.
    Old Geezer
    6th Jul 2019
    9:12am
    Niw you know why I don't watch TV or read the papers. Nothing but negative rubbish.
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    12:58pm
    Yep they are all very silent on so many things -- maybe they are waiting for a miracle or an answer from the fairy in the sky
    BigAl
    5th Jul 2019
    11:54am
    The tax cuts and interest rate cuts are stupid. Interest rate cuts only push up asset prices more. The rich are getting super rich whilst the rest of us tread water. The politicians are just kicking the can down the road until the next BIG recession. What this country needs is more spending on productive infrastructure and R&D to deliver next generation wealth. World debt levels continue to rise in excess of $250 trillion. Young people have no idea of budgeting or saving for a house. What needs to happen is 1. put interest rates back up 5% plus,a reasonable return for lending someone money 2. get governments to stop spending beyond their means and 3. most importantly teach life skills such as budgeting, investing, health and relationships in the schools.
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    1:29pm
    BigAl, putting interest rates up to 5% will also push the dollar higher, reducing the price of imports and making domestic manufacturing less competitive, which will likely to lead to more closures and people on Newstart. It will also depress A$ denominated exports and make our mines more vulnerable to cyclic downturns and drive foreign students elsewhere. Is this really what you want?
    mIKER
    5th Jul 2019
    11:55am
    Well, retirees voted against Labor's Retiree Tax and Labor's Homeowner Tax so they have got what they voted for, that isn't an increase in the Age Pension or a reduction in the Deeming Rate. Next time they might pay more attention to what's on offer!
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:42pm
    Miker, retirees voted for the only option that made sense - against having the livelihood of those who saved responsibly wiped out, against pushing hundreds of thousands more onto pensions, against driving shifts in investment from Australian companies and jobs to foreign companies, against destroying property values, against a huge increase in the national debt due to grossly irresponsible economic management - and by the way, NOTHING in Labor's policies EVER suggested a pension increase. So retirees would have been thoroughly idiotic to vote for policies that would wipe the self-funded, kill the economy, and do nothing for pensioners anyway.
    Buxi
    5th Jul 2019
    11:57am
    Well...Here we go again. Blame the politician. I would just remind people to this:Democracy is a system where people vote in a government they DESERVE!
    If people can't see further then their nose than it's their vision!
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:44pm
    If we had a democracy, and a valid choice, that might be a valid statement, Buxi. As it is, it's irrelevant. We don't get the government we deserve. We get the lesser of two seriously bad evils. And we don't have a problem with vision. We have a problem with the fact that there's nothing out there to see except 'damned and damneder'.
    KB
    5th Jul 2019
    12:01pm
    How right you are about pensioners getting nil. We do give to charities but get nothing back in way of a tax refund, I am happy for my daughter. She will receive the tax bonus payment.. Very unfair on pensioners though
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    2:45pm
    no biggie, pensioners are still better off than other cohorts that also get nil - disability, Newstart, austudy.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    2:50pm
    Pensioners certainly a lot better of than those self funded retirees many of who getting nothing and noting form the tax cuts as they don't even enough to even pay tax.
    KB
    5th Jul 2019
    12:01pm
    How right you are about pensioners getting nil. We do give to charities but get nothing back in way of a tax refund, I am happy for my daughter. She will receive the tax bonus payment.. Very unfair on pensioners though
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    12:15pm
    When is enough enough for those on welfare including pensioners? It wouldn't matte how much they got it would never be enough.
    Paddington
    5th Jul 2019
    12:51pm
    OG, that is nasty! Pensioners pay GST and they contribute in other ways as well.
    They help family and others needing help. Many volunteer.
    They do not build up a bank account it goes back into the economy.
    More welfare goes to the super wealthy by way of tax evasion, loopholes, etc.
    If that was all recovered it would be more than enough to cover all welfare, the NDIS, and much more.
    The renting single pensioner is especially hard up and many are becoming homeless.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    2:48pm
    What welfare to the super wealthy? I certainly don't see any of it but I pay a lot of it instead.
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    2:51pm
    Paddo, pensioners are not a special case of welfare recipients. There are many other groups of welfare recipients, not to mention those unemployed not receiving any welfare support, that "pay GST and they contribute in other ways as well. They help family and others needing help. Many volunteer. They do not build up a bank account it goes back into the economy".

    Pensioners sometimes need to take a pause and consider that although things could be better, their circumstances are better off than many others in the community.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    3:02pm
    Paddington, I agree to a point, BUT you Labor supporters were screaming for the theft of the livelihood of battlers who don't get pensions but pay GST and fuel tax and contribute in many other ways FROM THEIR OWN RESOURCES. You lot were bellowing that 'they don't pay tax', while you were happily pocketing handouts from taxpayers, and now you claim that giving a little of the handout back is a 'contribution'. It is, for sure. But if you can't recognize the rights of those who contribute tens of thousands annually by living off their savings and paying GST and fuel tax from their own savings, why should anyone care about the plight of pensioners. (Though I do - very much care. I just think they were very foolish, selfish and misled by Labor's massive lies.)

    The only hope for retirees is to UNITE. While pensioners support attacking the self-funded, both groups will suffer. And nobody should expect the self-funded to support people who support imposing unfair suffering.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    3:43pm
    Only Genuine Rainey aka Older and Wiser is back again, using a different name I see.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    3:31pm
    So you are super wealthy OG?, otherwise why would you be complining that you don't get any wefare.
    Misty
    8th Jul 2019
    12:28pm
    You can suspect what you like WG but you have no idea what my cicumstances are and as you told someone else who made a comment about your finances, it is none of your business.
    Misty
    8th Jul 2019
    12:36pm
    You don't have to resort to insults WG, it doesn't show you in a good light.
    Misty
    11th Jul 2019
    9:45pm
    So now OGR, Older and Wiser, Whinging Grandma is now Anonymous.
    Jess M
    5th Jul 2019
    12:01pm
    In reply to Dobbie and Rosret, The article was factual. No matter what side of politics you vote for the facts were stated.
    Facts:- The total cost to taxpayers over six years is $158 BILLION
    People on disability, new start and age pensions don't get a benefit.
    Newstart has not increased for more than two decades
    Deeming rates for pensioners should change
    LNP said they could be trusted to manage the economy and the facts show that the economy is in dire straits.
    The poor are doing it tougher than ever
    Most economists agree the fastest way to boost the economy is give relief to the poorest they will spend it.
    So Dobbie and Rosret they are the FACTS whether you like them or not is another matter.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    12:14pm
    Economy in dire straits? I don't think so with all those coffee shops and eating places doing roaring trades.
    Rosret
    5th Jul 2019
    12:16pm
    Jess M. This is just the usual economic house keeping for the working population.
    If we have a healthy economy we have more money for welfare.

    It is not costing the tax payer anything. It is money that goes back into the economy and every $ spent is taxed and taxed again. It comes back.

    When you over tax a population innovation and industry are stifled. More work is outsourced overseas and the burden on our welfare system increases.

    The reason Hong Kong was so successful last century was it had very low taxation. You will find all countries with low rates of taxation flourish.

    As for the FACTS - they are being presented with a very emotive "angry" bias. I felt like I was reading a transcript from an ABC journalist.
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    3:16pm
    Rosret, how much of every $ spent on good sourced overseas ever comes back? The economic multipliers do not apply to stuff sourced from China and elsewhere.

    Out of interest do you think Germany, Sweden, Switzerland etc consider innovation and industry stifled? Australia's direct tax to GDP ratio (63%) is only slightly higher than the OECD average (61%) however Australia's indirect tax share is much lower. End result is that Australia is not as high among the OECD in terms of taxation that many believe.

    And there were a number of factors that contributed to Hong Kong's 20th century success, rather than solely its low tax rates. Despite this success, 20% of its population were considered to be living below the poverty line.
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    7:58am
    Farside https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/Tax/Components-of-taxation/Personal-income-tax
    Farside
    6th Jul 2019
    1:03pm
    Rosret, that is only one component of taxes on labour and does not tell the full story

    http://www.oecd.org/ctp/tax-policy/taxing-wages-20725124.htm
    BillF2
    5th Jul 2019
    12:27pm
    The general attitude to oldies is that, if you're over 65, it won't be long before you drop off the perch. So why should we worry too much about you. The last election was a classic example. The Labor party wanted to take away benefits, while the Liberal party wanted to give them to everybody else. They both played to their supporters, and oldies are an amorphous, disorganised group who have little influence and no effect. Additionally, oldies are seen as a drain on the nation, especially with regard to health spending.
    There is nothing more important to a government than power and money, and if you can make more by screwing the weakest part of society, then that's what you are going to do. Don't expect any respect or rewards from politicians who have already made sure their pockets are lined, and they are not going to experience what they are dishing out to the seniors of this country.
    Teddyboy.
    5th Jul 2019
    12:27pm
    They didn’t offer us anything because they knew most of us would vote for them because we believe the lie that they are the great financial managers. Time will tell.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    12:31pm
    The 3rd tranche of tax cuts may never happen, it is still years away and who knows what might happen in the meantime.
    Paddington
    5th Jul 2019
    1:16pm
    Exactly Misty! Who has a crystal ball?
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    2:53pm
    Of course they will as you only have to look at who benefits.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    3:47pm
    Doesn't matter who benefits OG, the planet as we know it may not exist in the years when this tax is supposed to be implemented, we could be at war even, all sorts of things can happen to make these tax cuts irrelevant
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    3:54pm
    Ha ha Misty. Climate has always changed and if it hadn't we would be here. Wars are just arguments so no problem there either.
    roy
    5th Jul 2019
    3:55pm
    Good positive thinking musty, not. You must be great company at dinner parties. you and MICK.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    4:02pm
    As I am sure you are ruy.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    4:06pm
    Old Geezer I wasn't referring to Climate Change but now that you mention it that is another thing that could change the economy in those years
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    4:29pm
    The super rich are clapping their hands with the masses wanting to change the economy due to climate change as they will make billions from the hysteria.
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    7:18am
    Misty, misty - you need to clear away those grey skies.
    Our economy, the climate etc etc is just fine. Switch off your TV and go for a walk in the park.
    On the beach where I walk my dog each morning there is no litter. The waves come tumbling to shore as they have for millions of years. The sky shines in all its glory every day with a different kaleidoscope of colours. I can see from horizon to horizon with no smog, no pollution. I can see the whales and the dolphins dancing and frolicking in the crystal clear ocean.

    We, as oldies, only have a relative short time left on this planet - and we as Australians live in the most beautiful place bar none. Preserve what you can and have faith that you have taught your children well.
    Lippy
    5th Jul 2019
    12:33pm
    Luck Labor didn't win to affect pensioners, because ScoMo did it his way. As RBA drops rates more, pensions will be having stress attacks. The top end of town will buy more property to negative gear it and pay little to no tax and the BIG corporate companies will still not be paying tax but getting bigger tax returns. It's a fair system.
    Paddington
    5th Jul 2019
    12:54pm
    Ha ha Lippy. Maybe we could give some of our pension to them.
    Old Geezer
    6th Jul 2019
    9:14am
    Top end of town don't negative gear as they don't like losing money.
    FrankC
    5th Jul 2019
    12:40pm
    Some questions, : How will the changes cost tax payers $156million, secondly, what is a cross bench senate, thirdly, What are centre Alliance senators
    Captain
    5th Jul 2019
    1:51pm
    Read a newspaper occasionally to obtain the answers.
    neil
    5th Jul 2019
    1:05pm
    WHY?
    I'm old enough not to have any super, I don't count/matter.

    neil.
    neil
    5th Jul 2019
    1:05pm
    WHY?
    I'm old enough not to have any super, I don't count/matter.

    neil.
    greenie
    5th Jul 2019
    1:18pm
    What the hell is an 'enchilada'?
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    3:20pm
    really, right click and search or even better head off to your favourite mexican eating joint and try one.
    MICK
    5th Jul 2019
    1:36pm
    I yelled it out from the rafters but self funded retirees voted for their bank balances and we all get the results of a government running its class war whilst accusing Labor of this. Its a well worn tactic.
    Interest rates were just cut again and another one coming. Self funded retirees will get no compensation and the top end of town care not because they are not caught in this bind. Retirees generally will suffer whilst we'll get the comments saying how much this government has done for retirees: nix!

    I hope the greedy amongst us will take their franking credits and now their tax cuts because they will suffer in time. This game is still in play and the ballooning national debt which the media now NEVER mentions will one day crush us. Then the Piper will need to be paid. Oh yes....it'll all be Labor's fault again?
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:50pm
    Mick, the self-funded didn't vote for their bank balance. They voted for sanity and against the destruction of our economy with the STUPIDEST and MOST IRRESPONSIBLE policies we've seen in over a century. We voted against radical gender policies, insane climate change policies, pushing hundreds of thousands onto pensions while transferring billions in wealth overseas, crashing property values, and a massively increased deficit. And for my part, I voted against giving power to blatant liars who were giving franking credits to people with $2 million, taking them from people with incomes less than the pension, and CLAIMING they were attacking the 'top end of town'.
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    3:25pm
    no surprise that many SFR voted for their bank balances ... 'the punters know that the horse named Morality rarely gets past the post, whereas the nag named Self-interest always runs a good race'
    MICK
    5th Jul 2019
    3:35pm
    A reality check:

    1. self interest is what is trying to stop climate change from being addressed.
    2. self interest is why you have a growing divide between rich and poor with the latter in many cases living in poverty and the other end avoiding paying even a half fair amount of tax.

    Labor's policies were NOT irresponsible. We are the ONLY nation which has franking credits! The changes to capital gains tax may have affected all who sponge on it but it was/is killing off the ability of young Australians to get a home. Negative gearing should NOT allow investors to offset OTHER income against rental property losses.

    Labor lost because it was too ambitious, had a genY leader who did not have it in him and because the media lied them into office.....never saw the debt mentioned once and likewise all of the blatant lies (strong economy?) which were used to keep Labor out.
    Australia is the worse for it and its no surprise you both are recipients of the moula being shelled out. When your children fail to afford to live and/or buy a house have a real careful think about what's good for you. The wealthy will do well!
    Sundays
    5th Jul 2019
    4:02pm
    Whnging Gamdma, you don’t pay tax but get refund of Franking Credits, you do realise that this time you won’t qualify for the $1080. That goes to genuine taxpayers.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    4:32pm
    I'll not only get my franking credits refunded but pay less tax due to the tax changes.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    9:36pm
    Sundays, I DO PAY TAX. GST, fuel tax, and a host of other taxes FROM MY OWN RESOURCES, AND I save the government well over $40K a year by not drawing a pension. I could change that tomorrow, and I would have if Labor got their disgustingly unfair policy through. I note they were only attacking battlers with moderate savings - not those with millions and not manipulative part pensioners with big incomes and expensive houses. Those they were attacking NEED AND DESERVE their small franking credit refund. Many are nowhere near as well off as most part pensioners, and without a decent income, would very quickly drain their savings and be poor. That's NOT fair after 50 years of hard work, paying tax, and going without to save. And why should one form of income be taxed and not another? Was the objective to drive investment out of Australian companies so unemployment would rise and tax revenue would fall. That would have been the result.

    Mick, that 'the only nation' argument is the stupidest rubbish ever touted. We are also the only developed nation that means tests pensions. Our tax system is unique also. Change EVERYTHING if you are going to use that argument - not JUST the things that make the system workable and beneficial to the economy. Maybe Short-on-brains can figure out how to make Australia no longer an island continent, if uniqueness is so bad? Different is often better. But most retirees would have copped franking credit changes if granted non-means-tested pensions to compensate, or even a major increase in the thresholds. What was unpalatable was letting the wealthy keep their credits and screwing strugglers who don't have enough to live on and would have had the miserable remaining rewards for 50 years of struggle (and the rewards are minimal anyway) wiped out in a stroke of a pen.

    Why should business losses in one business be offset against income but not business losses in a real estate investment business? I see both sides of that argument, but regardless it was the wrong time to reduce property investment. Prices were falling. Making them fall faster could only do harm.

    Nobody lied more than Labor. Remember the BS about millionaires claiming hundreds of thousands in franking credit refunds? Except NOBODY could own that amount of shares and pay no tax. It's simply not possible. Oh, and the 'top end of town'? People with a mere $450,000 in total assets and incomes well below the aged pension, but getting a measly few thousand in franking credits. Rip them off, though. Push them onto pensions. Drive investment overseas. Lie about the savings by using outdated data. Push the cost of aged pensions and aged care sky high by stealing the savings of responsible retirees who have very modest assets to last the next 30 years, and claim that's going to save the nation money. Only an idiot would believe that crap.
    Heart of the Sunrise
    5th Jul 2019
    1:47pm
    As usual, the poorest & most marginalised suffer the most.
    This corrupt government, and that sellout Lambie, are so determined to rob part-pensioners, using unrealistic deeming rates, to pay for tax cuts for those earning $200,000 a year! Wow!
    Sundays
    5th Jul 2019
    4:15pm
    Something definitely needs to be done about deeming rates. Many older pensioners are only comfortable with banks, and they should not be penalised. Lambic did a deal to wipe out some of Tasmania’s debt. Let’s see if that actually happens
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    7:28am
    Of course they are and will be.
    It is a message my parents drilled into me and I drill into my children.
    Study hard, be money wise and prepare for retirement.
    The equation is a bit muddled these days but the base line still applies.

    No one should be planning to live on a government pension in retirement. Everyone should try and own a home well before retirement. Sometimes the chips don't fall that way and that's when we have a pension system. The pension = poverty and it has been ever since I can remember.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    1:54pm
    It shouldn't equal poverty, Rosret, but it shouldn't equal unfair levels of comfort superior to those who provided for their own retirement either. But it does now. I see people conspiring to minimise their assessable assets because part pensioners are far, far better off than the less wealthy of their self-funded counterparts, who saved twice as much.
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    6:26pm
    That is very true whinging grandma. I don't know how they can fix that one.
    Anonymous
    7th Jul 2019
    8:34am
    Easy, Rosret. Do what all other developed nations do. Pay a universal age pension, restoring dignity and respect in the community and providing decent incentives for people to work and save - knowing it will benefit them later - and TAX retirement incomes fairly. The tax would balance out the cost of the UAP by ensuring it had little or no value to those who really don't need the extra income. Admin costs would be eliminated, saving mega-millions. Stress and anxiety rates among seniors would fall, resulting in health savings. Inheritances would benefit younger Australians. Greater incentives to work and save for retirement would make the entire nation much better off. It's common sense. Unfortunately, there's no common sense in Canberra, or among the so-called advisory bodies who really dictate policy.
    floss
    5th Jul 2019
    1:58pm
    You voted for the L.N.P. now wear it ,look at their past performance what did you people expect .Motor Mouth Morrison will always look after the well off.
    Old Man
    5th Jul 2019
    2:06pm
    Not a great segue from tax cuts to pensions. The tax cuts were an election policy, increases in pensions were not. What policy that did affect retirees was the fringe benefits debacle and that is one of the main reasons that Labor is once again occupying the opposition benches.

    Labor has done itself no favours with the electorate by trying to change the tax cuts legislation in part and opposing other parts. All they have done is put themselves up for ridicule by the government for the current term by being pointed out as opposing tax cuts for the workers that Labor is supposed to champion. They will also be lampooned for their failed "big end of town" slogan as the first tranche of tax cuts is for the lower end of incomes.
    Misty
    5th Jul 2019
    3:51pm
    What rubbish Old Man, Labor actually wanted to bring forward the 1st and 2nd tax cuts, they did not oppose them.
    Old Man
    5th Jul 2019
    5:15pm
    Not with you Misty, the government wanted to put forward the legislation that they took to the election. Labor wanted to change what was taken to the election therefore Labor opposed the policy. Labor also wanted the third tranche dropped because it affected the mythical "top end of town" thereby exposing its policy of envy once more.
    bartpcb
    5th Jul 2019
    2:26pm
    It is beyond belief that the Australian public fell for the con job of the Liberal party. Now they will reap the wind!!
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    2:44pm
    ROFL
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:56pm
    Really, bartpcb? You really can't understand why people voted against a party that was more concerned with a radical gender policy than sensible economic management, and was determined to crucify all those retirees who worked their guts out for decades and saved and are NOT a burden on society, rather than let them keep a small refund of tax paid but not owed? You really can't understand why people voted against massive additional national debt and forcing hundreds of thousands more onto pensions by making saving futile? And you really can't understand why people voted to keep blatant LIARS out of running the country - liars who were looking after the bank balances of fat cats nicely but stealing the life savings of battlers, and then claiming FALSELY to be taking from 'the top end of town'?

    I despite the LNP and everything it stands for, but Labor gave us no options.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    2:57pm
    Actually, Labor BEGGED us to vote LNP. Begged, pleaded, bribed, cajoled, and threatened devastation if we didn't!
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    7:54am
    I am bemused as to why the Labor cheer squad chose it as a platform to try and win points in the last election.
    It is economic housekeeping that neither party have objected to passing in Parliament.

    It would have happened no matter who was in power just like the Reserve bank rates and just like the increase to the minimum wage. Political parties run the economy from the recommendations given to them by our public servant advisers.

    Just like we set our time from Greenwich mean time so too do we operate in a global platform of taxation, education curriculum, parliamentary structure etc etc. We are not a super power - we do not initiate major change.
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:40pm
    No, Rosret, the first two tax cuts would have gone through yesterday and no promise on the third one on the never never. Everyone benefits from each tax cut including the wealthy. But it is the poorer ones who spend and that is what is needed now urgently.
    Newstart could do with a boost and they will spend it too.
    Pick any group who spend all their money and that is wiser than giving it to the top end of town for more shares or hiding in bank accounts overseas, etc.
    And we are not a third world country either.
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:43pm
    There you are WG, wondered where you would turn up. Back to the franking credits.
    Ha ha!
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    2:09pm
    Yes Paddington, so easy to tell isn't it. Only Genuine Rainey morphed into Older and Wiser who is now going under the title whinging grandma, still writing reams about pensioners and Franking Credits, can't leave them alone it seems.
    OlderandWiser
    5th Jul 2019
    2:32pm
    you reap what you sow. Greedy people only care about themselves like a few people that continuously post on here.
    It's not that we can't feed the poor it's because we can't satisfy the rich, & this has been the case for far too long
    Poverty leads to crime, more poverty leads to more crime & on it goes
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    8:14am
    The assumption that the people who agree with this bracket creep adjustment are wealthy, greedy people couldn't be further from the truth.

    This adjustment benefits all workers. The moment we are off that economic wheel we have to rely on either our savings or the government. The only inflation that benefits the retiree is higher bank interest rates and the Reserve bank just dropped its rates to an historic low.

    If you want to blame anyone then blame the greed of the real estate boom. While our city bred generation may have benefited our children are in an awful predicament of endless commitment to bank housing loans.
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:33pm
    Organised car stealing is rampant actually. House prices never should have blown out like they did. Total greed!
    The wealthy still benefit from the first lot of tax cuts. They benefit each time.
    The last lot are too far off for one thing and that could change if unaffordable, just placating the wealthy for now!
    PlanB
    5th Jul 2019
    2:33pm
    Not a cracker for the Pensioners or the low paid workers AND the penalty rates are also GONE --its a darn disgrace and this Government cares NOTHING about anyone other than the --I say it AGAIN

    THE TOP END OF TOWN!

    I note that Bridgette MacKenkie has spent Half a MILLION on doing up her RENTED office -- what a lot of utter low lives this lot are!
    Farside
    5th Jul 2019
    3:30pm
    and that rented office is so she make a tilt for Indi at the next election. It's ridiculous the goverment picked up this cost rather than the NP kicking the tin.
    Old Man
    5th Jul 2019
    5:18pm
    Taxpayers spent more $450,000 on office fitout and facilities for Gillard, who sold her house in Melbourne and moved back to Adelaide after being deposed as prime minister by Kevin Rudd.
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    11:32am
    I know and I have no time for any of the thieving scum -- either side ---and these politicians are a darn sight worse than they were decades ago -- and they were bad enough even then-- but it is absolutely criminal the way these scum are doing stuff
    PlanB
    5th Jul 2019
    2:35pm
    Let us not forget that this mob only got in because of Clive Palmer and NO other reason--

    Even the LNP were stunned they got in
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    2:43pm
    Rubbish
    Intellego
    5th Jul 2019
    4:12pm
    OG. "Rubbish" only because PlanB omitted that redheaded clown P. Hanson and the Right-wing propaganda merchant Rupert Murdoch.
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    4:23pm
    I was telling everyone at least 3 weeks before the election that the LNP was going to win and it would of surprised me if they had an increased majority. It certainly was no surprise to me at all.
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    9:34am
    OG --- well how is it that even the LNP were SO surprised as were everyone one else --that they won -- Palmer had the LNP on his paper and the LNP had Palmer on theirs -- they were up each others backside -- and also as Intellego said, Hansen and Murdock -- Murdock would do anything to get a mine for himself --

    All I can say is we will be saying Heil to Morrison --- arrogant B that he is
    Old Geezer
    6th Jul 2019
    3:34pm
    Well it was certainly no surprise to me that the LNP won. However I'd love to have a dollar for all the abuse I got for saying they would win before the election.

    The funniest thing that happened was I was having dinner at an outback resort in WA on election night and someone asked if Labor had won the election yet.Remember WA is 2hrs behind the eastern states.i said that I had a quick look and it was undecided even though I knew the LNP was well in front. A woman at the table pulled out her phone and said she would check. However after a couple of minutes she said it was making no sense to her and put her phone away. How I didn't burst out laughing still amazes me

    It was the easiest election outcome to predict in my lifetime.
    retvilldotnet
    5th Jul 2019
    3:36pm
    Just because you are on an Aged Pension or Newstart doesn't mean you aren't 'aspirational'. Sometimes life can deal a cruel hand but that doesn't make you a sub species, not fit to share in the nation's wealth. This is a watershed in political cruelty.
    Farside
    6th Jul 2019
    1:15pm
    absolutely Retvilldotnet, it is a rare person on Newstart and even rarer pensioner that does not aspire to have more coin, and dare I say to be at the top of the monkey tree looking down on others, seeing smiling faces rather than looking up and seeing a tree full of ....
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    1:51pm
    True, Farside. The tragedy is that it's a rare person on Newstart and even rarer pensioner who has the intestinal fortitude to make any effort to climb the tree. Most just expect the government to steal from others and hand out to them.
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    5:05pm
    Ah WG, same old same old!
    Intellego
    5th Jul 2019
    4:02pm
    This is just typical of the verminous Lieberals: featherbed the rich at the expense of everybody else. They have nothing but contempt for the poor (including pensioners).
    Old Geezer
    5th Jul 2019
    4:21pm
    Exactly as the poor in this country just think it owes them just because they are alive.
    Anonymous
    5th Jul 2019
    9:16pm
    That's a disgraceful comment, OG. Shows a complete lack of basic human decency.
    I agree that many of the poor have only themselves to blame for their situation - particularly poor retirees, as most have had plenty of opportunity to save for old age - but there IS such as thing as disadvantage. Trauma, crisis, serious illness, accidents, natural disasters... all of these take their toll. And when you are born into poverty, it's damned hard to rise above it.

    Featherbedding the rich is disgusting. The greed and selfishness in this country is appalling, and it's destroying both our economic and our social health. Unfortunately, Labor is worse than the Liberals and would wreck the economy completely, so it doesn't matter which party is in power, society is doomed.
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    8:27am
    Whinging grandma - look at the absolutely horrid if not toxic adjectives intellego used to frame his/her argument. Then you call Old Geezer disgraceful when there is a one sentence response with no demeaning comment at all.

    If Intellego was prepared to argue in the positive and state a necessary need to be included in a pay scale increase then I would empathise. However to be hit with barrage of insults because I don't necessarily vote the same way?

    For most who are managing their retirement through a superannuation provider there is no government body to attack, no group of people to denigrate, no CPI adjustments. Independently we are all watching and working the dollar to optimise our personal retirement. Heaven help us when dementia sets in.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    1:48pm
    I didn't condone Intellego's nastiness, Rosret. I just didn't think such a meaningless and offensive rant deserved response. But OG's condemnation of the poor is cruel in the extreme, and totally unjustified in many cases. I agree there are some who think the nation owes them just because they are alive. There are far more rich with that mentality. There are plenty of battlers deserving of respect and even admiration for the way they cope with disadvantage.

    I do agree with your last paragraph, though. Those managing their own retirement have an uphill battle, and they had better hope and pray for good mental health until they draw their last breath. Otherwise, maybe they need to find somewhere to go where euthanasia is legal. I've made my plans. Luckily have loved ones willing to take me to a suitable place and make appropriate arrangements.
    Stoney
    5th Jul 2019
    4:30pm
    This is another arguement in favour of euthanasia on demand - so what we do is spend all our money, and then go along to some government department, and say, "OK folks, that's it, I'm broke - gimme the pill (please)!
    Rosret
    6th Jul 2019
    8:30am
    Greens are only to happy to oblige with that one. Be careful what you wish for.
    Farside
    6th Jul 2019
    1:23pm
    not enough Greens in parliament to make a nembutal freebie for the masses, perhaps an interesting incentive if made available in Green held electorates ???
    greatgolly
    5th Jul 2019
    4:31pm
    How many gave thought to how they voted last election and the consequences of that vote? My son is one who never gave credence to where his vote really went; my son voted for the Coppertop team (One Nation), without realising that his vote was destined for Liberal/Nationals, and now he is kicking his self for not thinking about preferences! Many now have realised that now, sadly, but too late, even though, if they had voted how they thought they were, then Liberals would be out and Labour would be in, no wonder I've always believed in 1 vote 1 person; preferences should have been abolished years ago!

    As for Jacqui Lambie and her blackmailing deal with the Libs, does she realise that money has to come from hospitals, schools and many other short changed areas; really, I think she would sell her mother if it was of benefit to herself, after all, this almost guarantees her a seat in the next elections and a cushy pension for life from the trough when she leaves, same goes for coppertops mob too!

    I so fear for the elderly, the poor, the sick, their future is catastrophic to say the least; however, polies don't care as they always come out of parliament with pockets full of trough money, and I hope they enjoy their constant rich entitlements, perks while poverty runs rampant!

    I wish I was younger and not disabled, I would fight high and low to abolish all state governments; polies would have their pay cut down to an acceptable level and when they leave parliament, they do not get any benefits until they reach retirement age and the trough for their snouts would be removed completely!

    Do I sound angry, by hell I am; since Federation the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, then, when you say what I've just said, you get put on a watch list!
    greatgolly
    5th Jul 2019
    4:31pm
    How many gave thought to how they voted last election and the consequences of that vote? My son is one who never gave credence to where his vote really went; my son voted for the Coppertop team (One Nation), without realising that his vote was destined for Liberal/Nationals, and now he is kicking his self for not thinking about preferences! Many now have realised that now, sadly, but too late, even though, if they had voted how they thought they were, then Liberals would be out and Labour would be in, no wonder I've always believed in 1 vote 1 person; preferences should have been abolished years ago!

    As for Jacqui Lambie and her blackmailing deal with the Libs, does she realise that money has to come from hospitals, schools and many other short changed areas; really, I think she would sell her mother if it was of benefit to herself, after all, this almost guarantees her a seat in the next elections and a cushy pension for life from the trough when she leaves, same goes for coppertops mob too!

    I so fear for the elderly, the poor, the sick, their future is catastrophic to say the least; however, polies don't care as they always come out of parliament with pockets full of trough money, and I hope they enjoy their constant rich entitlements, perks while poverty runs rampant!

    I wish I was younger and not disabled, I would fight high and low to abolish all state governments; polies would have their pay cut down to an acceptable level and when they leave parliament, they do not get any benefits until they reach retirement age and the trough for their snouts would be removed completely!

    Do I sound angry, by hell I am; since Federation the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, then, when you say what I've just said, you get put on a watch list!
    Tricky
    5th Jul 2019
    7:34pm
    An announcement by the PM is expected soon concerning Deeming Rates, The announcement will take place once he and cabinet complete their prayer meeting with imaginary friends in the sky who will allegedly offer advice to the PM and cabinet about reviewing the Deeming Rates in a favourable manner we hope. Thoughts and Prayers.
    Aussiefrog
    6th Jul 2019
    8:22am
    Very funny, but realistic.
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:26pm
    Ha ha. They have brought in something but it sounds pretty empty.
    Becca
    5th Jul 2019
    9:11pm
    The Liberal/National party only got into office because of Clive Palmers votes and I guess One Nations, . People were told so many lies to scare Labour winning votes, who had the posters in Chinese telling them exactly how they should vote.
    It is really sad how blind people are when it comes to the stare of the economy. Australia is in a bad way financially and the Government is only going to make it worse. As for pensioners, the disabled and all those that need government aide
    Can all suffer for they are all classed as liabilities by the Government. Pensioners that can walk should all March on Parliament to show that we are all being treated unfairly.
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:25pm
    It took advantage of people who do not follow politics and are not savvy about how it all works. People believed so many far fetched things it is ridiculous. Palmer is an enemy of voters. Imagine what the government owes him.
    It was a very unfair election based on lies and scaring ignorant people.
    Anonymous
    7th Jul 2019
    8:28am
    And the biggest lies of all were told by Labor, which is why they lost.
    Aussiefrog
    6th Jul 2019
    8:17am
    The majority voted the government in.
    Unless proven otherwise, majority rules.
    You pay tax you get a tax return, you don't pay tax, why would expect a refund as you haven't paid?
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:22pm
    That sounds like a big no to franking credits lol.
    Farside
    6th Jul 2019
    1:26pm
    actually, Aussiefrog, the coalition only won 41% of the counted votes.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    1:42pm
    No Paddington. Franking credits are a refund of tax paid. None paid - nothing to refund. But idiots want to pretend that whether money deducted from income and sent to the ATO is tax or not depends on whose income it was deducted from and how the income was earned. It's unlikely Labor could have actually got their policy passed anyway, because it was unconstitutional. Breaches the basic premise of taxation.
    Sundays
    6th Jul 2019
    2:30pm
    Following your 'logic' why arent you getting the $1080 offset if you only have shares and pay no tax. Those who pay tax are getting it on top of their normal refund each year until 21/22 We all know refund of franking credits was a rort. It wont last for ever
    Anonymous
    7th Jul 2019
    8:25am
    You make no sense at all, Sundays. I suggest you put a sock in it until you learn what logic means. And stop making dumb assumptions. Who says I only have shares and pay no tax? Who says I'm not getting the $1080 offset? My situation is my business. But the fact is that the $1080 offset specifically relates to INCOME TAX. So retirees typically don't benefit because they don't pay income tax. Franking credits, on the other hand, relate to tax paid on dividends. They are not a rort. They are a fair refund of tax paid that was not owed in the first place, and they correct an unfairness that would otherwise exist that would mean retiree share investors pay a huge tax while investors in other assets pay none. They are also hugely beneficial to the economy because they encourage investment into good Australian companies that can use that investment capital to grow and create more jobs and generate more tax revenue.

    In fact, many countries have looked at Australia's system with envy. But they have not mimicked it because doing so would mean increasing their rate of tax on companies - which is typically MUCH lower than Australia's - up to cover the cost of the refunds. If Australia were to eliminate franking credits, it would need to slash company tax rates to much lower levels in order to avoid a massive and very harmful outflow of investment capital. That's why those with intelligence and understanding opposed Labor's stupid policy. That, and the fact that their claimed 'savings' never existed because they used outdated data, and the crap they peddled about who was benefiting by how much was all blatant lies (or evidence of the worst kind of incompetence imaginable). And Labor didn't want to know what was wrong with their policy and declared openly they were too arrogant to care.

    It also should have been taken into account by the morons who ranted that 'we are the only country in the world that does this' that we are also the only developed nation that means tests pensions. And our company tax rates are high. If you want to change one thing, you need to be careful to consider what other balancing changes are necessary. Killing the investment income of retirees in a society where means tests do not apply is one thing. Killing their income in a society where the means tests leave them no realistic fall back is another thing entirely - ESPECIALLY when the proposed policy doesn't impact those with high asset balances, but will financially cripple those with moderate assets, wiping out the entire benefit of up to 5 decades of saving.

    Call it a 'rort' if you want to, but it's an essential feature of TODAY'S Australian tax and pension system. If it is to be eliminated, it needs to be done in combination with other sensible changes - not in isolation and with arrogant disregard for the harm it will cause. Happily, most Australian understood that, and voted against the idiots who WOULD have easily won power if they weren't such idiots.
    Misty
    7th Jul 2019
    9:35am
    An interesting article on Nrws.com about Franking Credits, apparently according to records the number of people who are now claiming Franking Credis since the May election has soared, they are now costing the Govt $5 Billion compared to the $500 Million when they were introduced in 2011. Comments heard by a reporter were ,"I never knew they existed so I am changfing my investmenta and Financial Advisors were inundated with calls about Franking Credits and how they could get them too. Wonder how long it will be before the Govt has to do something about this if it affects their surplus forecast.
    Anonymous
    7th Jul 2019
    5:55pm
    Well, that's good then. Lots more money being invested in growth of Australian companies, which means lots more jobs and lots more tax revenue.
    But Labor was pretty stupid instigating a huge furore if they were worried about the cost. They should have considered a responsible policy, like capping cash refunds - which was repeatedly suggested and would have been acceptable to the majority, much fairer, and much more economically sustainable.
    Old Geezer
    9th Jul 2019
    12:22pm
    Misty my franking credits more than doubled last financial year due to companies paying special dividends and share buybacks. It will be back to normal this financial year and possible less than normal as many companies have paid out a lot of their excess franking credits. It won't affect their surplus going forward.
    Old Geezer
    9th Jul 2019
    12:22pm
    Misty my franking credits more than doubled last financial year due to companies paying special dividends and share buybacks. It will be back to normal this financial year and possible less than normal as many companies have paid out a lot of their excess franking credits. It won't affect their surplus going forward.
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    9:41am
    Morrison says 'If you have a go you will get a go' well I have had lots of GOES and saved the Government a LOT of money doing it -- but when you get to old age yourself you expect to be able to get a go -- there comes a time when you can no longer have that go -- so Morrison get off your high horse and wake up to your arrogant smart A---- self!
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:17pm
    Goes for the disabled and all those not lucky enough to be endowed with attributes that allows them to have a go. It is not a level playing field and those more fortunate have always had a duty to the less able. Lots do the right thing but this government prefer the top end of town. No apologies for that term either!
    PlanB
    6th Jul 2019
    12:34pm
    Darn right Paddington-- and they don't seem to care a hoot about those that are UNABLE to "Have a go" let alone those that have taken care of those unfortunate people --
    Morrison is big on the so-called "SAYINGS"
    I would like them tied to a chair and a questioner with a cattle prod and them unable to get up UNTIL they have answered the questions asked -- unlike Morrison that just up and walks away -- and blockhead -- (forget his name) that just yaps on till time is up --
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    1:39pm
    I agree. But Labor hates those who have a go, and wants to destroy them. Sure, it will pandy to the wants of selfish, vocal minorities, while spitting on the genuinely needy and feeding them crumbs, but get up and have a go and Labor will cut you down fast, bellowing lies about you being 'the top end of town' for having a few hundred thousand in savings - acquired over a lifetime of hard work and sacrifice - and a miserable income not even equal to the OAP. And don't dare think of leaving a little to give your kids or grandkids a leg up. No. the LABOR instigated means test will ensure that nearly all retirees are kept poor (and dependant - because that keeps them compliant); that nobody has much if anything left to leave to their heirs; and that gamblers and spendthrifts and manipulators who play the system are rewarded and honest workers and savers harshly punished.

    So we get to choose between a party that over-indulges the rich, hates and persecutes the disadvantaged, and lets those who have a go enjoy modest rewards, and a party that over-indulges the rich, hates but throws crumbs to the disadvantaged, and actively creates lots more disadvantaged by tormenting and robbing honest workers and savers who have a go.

    Not much of a choice, is it? And when you add Labor's immorality, extremist gender nonsense, stupidly expensive environmental policies that can't possibly do any good, and allegiance to the UN resulting in floods of Centrelink-dependant immigrants... well, there's no choice at all, sadly. The populace did the only thing a nation of sane people could do. That's not to say most of us are pleased about it. It's just that there was no alternative.

    6th Jul 2019
    10:49am
    Would it have been preferable if Shorten had increased taxes as he promised to do and brought in thousands of migrants to freeload on Centrelink as Labor's ethnic activists had convinced him to do through changes to the Visa scheme?

    Then Shorten and Wong would have been jetting off overseas to give buckloads of Aussie taxpayers' money to the UN and anyone else they wanted to impress.
    Paddington
    6th Jul 2019
    12:20pm
    Yes, much more preferable. Include the Greens too as Labor is a bit scared now after the smack in the face. Greens will be needed to man/woman up for the environment and the less popular notions of caring for others. LJ, your kind of thinking does not belong in our global world.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    1:21pm
    Really, Paddington? You can't seriously think it would have been a good thing for Labor to throw bucket loads of money at the UN, bring in thousands more migrants to freeload on our tax system, and kill investment in Australian companies and thereby push thousands more onto the unemployment scrap heap?

    Caring for others? The Labor Party doesn't care for anyone but it's favoured few. It never promised pension rises. It never promised a Newstart increase. It refused outright to reverse the assets test changes it had declared wrong, and instead threated to destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands of self-funded retirees who were battling to get my on minimal incomes made up of dividends and franking credits, thus placing a much heavier burden on taxpayers to fund aged pensions and aged care.

    Climate change is happening. It's a cyclical thing that man can't change. It's been happening for millions of years. All that Labor and the Greens can do is bring forward the inevitable pain and suffering and give us less time and resources to find ways to adjust.

    It's YOUR kind of thinking that doesn't belong in this world. We need more with LJ's common sense.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    2:36pm
    Paddington,

    The majority, the 'Quiet Australians', have commonsense and have rejected 'Woke' nonsense and cultural relativism.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    3:39pm
    I am heartily sick of that saying" Quiet Australians", I weonder how many Aussies like being labelled a "Quit Australian" and what exactly does it mean?, you sit back, don't say a word and do what you are told and take what comes?. I don't know anyone who fits that description.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    3:39pm
    Sorry, should be Quiet not Quit.
    Anonymous
    6th Jul 2019
    9:21pm
    The majority are not 'Woke and angry' and living in a Twitter bubble. They are far too busy working and taking care of their families and future.
    Misty
    6th Jul 2019
    9:46pm
    What do you mean by "Woke and angry", LJ?, they are your words not mine, I have never heard this expression before.
    Circum
    7th Jul 2019
    7:54pm
    The interest rate cuts are another nail in the coffin for retirees.It will do nothing apart from delaying the eventual affect of over borrowing encouraged by low interest rates.A poor economic approach by people trying to manage the economy by books written by people with a narrow vision of consequences.
    Ardnaher
    8th Jul 2019
    7:05pm
    iwill be putting my money in an INdex fund
    Misty
    8th Jul 2019
    7:28pm
    What is an INdex Fund Aednher?, is it an Australian fund?.
    Ardnaher
    9th Jul 2019
    10:00am
    google it Misty...it is all there...easier for you to read than for me to try and explain :)
    Misty
    9th Jul 2019
    10:44am
    OK I will do that Ardnaher, just thought you might have had a simple answer.
    Misty
    9th Jul 2019
    10:48am
    The Treasure has just said nothing will get in the way of the surplus, no economic stimulas from his govt, where is the money coming from to make up for the new tax cuts?, someone or something is going to have to pay for them.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2019
    11:42am
    Misty, The Federal Government has $100B of infrastructure spending in play already, why are you saying they have no economic stimulus? Where is the stimulus from the states?

    By the way, our economy is not doing too badly. I see a booming share market, I see the cost of money at an all time low. I see a low unemployment rate. Ok our GDP could be higher so too our balance of trade and wage growth. These indicators will fall into place.
    Circum
    7th Jul 2019
    7:54pm
    The interest rate cuts are another nail in the coffin for retirees.It will do nothing apart from delaying the eventual affect of over borrowing encouraged by low interest rates.A poor economic approach by people trying to manage the economy by books written by people with a narrow vision of consequences.
    Anonymous
    8th Jul 2019
    10:28am
    I agree, Circum. Rock bottom interest rates haven't solved our economic problems before, and with virtually no scope to cut them much further, cuts are very unlikely to do any good. But I've read that it's all part of a bigger plan by foreign powers that will result, eventually, in negative interest rates (paying banks to hold your money) and a cashless society in which you cannot withdraw your savings. Part of a design to return to a feudal society. The thing is, robots are going to take jobs. There has to be a plan for a society in which there are nowhere near enough jobs to go around. The rich want that plan to be for them to keep all the loot and have unpaid live-in servants like in past centuries. The other alternative is for the rich to pay higher taxes so the masses of unemployed can receive a living wage, and if you think the powerful will accept that option, you believe in fairies.
    Sydst
    8th Jul 2019
    8:25am
    Old and marginalised is right. I've struggled to pay huge electricity bills and lived on toast for 20 yrs. There's nothing left after we pay power, rego, and rates or rent. Certainly no life. From welldressed and hsppy to rags and and misery and the bank refused to give my own money demanding to know what I was going to do with it abd threatening to red flag my account ,"if you don't tell me". I might be older but I'm not stupid. It's my money not theirs. Back to toast and staying at home alone. Thanks for nothing.
    Farside
    8th Jul 2019
    10:45am
    what would prompt a bank to refuse allowing you to withdraw from your account?
    OlderandWiser
    8th Jul 2019
    11:30am
    There must be a reason for the banks refusal apart from not allowing you to access your money questions unasked.
    No bank can lock your account unless directed by the courts. I don't even the ATO or centrelink has that individual power without court approval & even then would be difficult if it put you under extreme hardship.
    Maybe you're a declared bankrupt that's the only reason I can think off & if you are then it's tough because you would have made some bad choices to go from riches to rags
    Ardnaher
    9th Jul 2019
    9:59am
    finding it difficult to understand...you said you lived on toast for 20 years because of high bills yet you then send you drew out large cheques for 6 figures and then wanted to draw another for 7 figures....does not make sense to me. a seven figure sum must be a million at least!
    Old Geezer
    9th Jul 2019
    12:16pm
    If you draw out more than $10,000 they have to report it to the powers that be with a valid reason. No valid reason then they can refuse to let you draw out the money.

    Same problem with depositing more than $10,000. If you can't give a legitimate reason where you got the money you can't deposit it.
    Adrianus
    13th Jul 2019
    8:18am
    If you run a toaster a few times a day every day, your Electricity Bill will keep you poor.
    Adrianus
    13th Jul 2019
    8:18am
    If you run a toaster a few times a day every day, your Electricity Bill will keep you poor.
    Old Geezer
    11th Jul 2019
    4:22pm
    spam emails have already started so be careful.

    Here is an example


    You've probably seen on the news that a record number of people are doing there tax returns early this year in order to get paid their upto $1080 of tax cuts.

    Well, we have some good news. Because we have found someone who can help you get your tax refund paid to you in as little as an hour after you submit your tax.

    Even better, they will give you an estimate of your tax refund for FREE.


    Kerrie - Simply CLICK HERE Now to See How Much You Get


    A FREE estimate and your upto $1080 tax refund paid out in an hour...that sounds pretty good to me.

    Check it out.

    Enjoy,
    Chris from Great Aussie Big Deals
    Sydst
    12th Jul 2019
    11:15am
    Comment removed. Member suspended.
    Sydst
    12th Jul 2019
    11:18am
    Comment removed
    Pop47
    13th Jul 2019
    11:45pm
    It’s really simple why pensioners or any other groups are overlooked just the same as farmers are overlooked by governments
    Simply we are typically Australian and not united
    We actually allow ourselves to be abused by various levels of government
    Sadly we’re victims of our own pride
    Additionally we are very reluctant to consider any form of change in our society
    Unfortunately for us oldies the governments recognise this and play the game so without a cohesive approach we are all screwed or at the mercy of governments and unfortunately we’ll never change so we just get treated as stupid old ###erd
    Teddyboy.
    15th Jul 2019
    4:29pm
    Sadly too many people do not vote for the party that will look after their best interests but one that says they are wonderful managers and the only ones to trust.
    The reality is that their main focus is supporting big business and the wealthy. Wasn’t tax cuts their only policy at the election.Now they have achieved that it turns out religion is their next big interest. Fingers crossed for the future.