9th Oct 2018
Incoming ALP senator wants a ban on for-profit super funds
Author: Ben Hocking
Calls to ban for-profit super funds

Incoming ALP senate candidate Tony Sheldon has promised to pursue legislation to ban for-profit super funds if elected.

Mr Sheldon, who stood down as the national secretary of the Transport Workers Union (TWU) in August to pursue a position in Parliament, told the Australian Financial Review that “retail funds have no place in superannuation”.

"There is a fundamental cultural difference between for-profit [funds] in this space in comparison with best return for members which is delivered by not-for-profit funds,” Mr Sheldon said.

“It raises the fundamental question – are they fit and proper to be in that space? Clearly they're not."

Mr Sheldon, who will soon step down from the TWU Super board, also explained that industry super funds should take a more activist view of their duties to battle corporate tax avoidance.

"As super funds, we have to be raising the question, should we engage with companies that are involved in wage theft? Should we be engaging companies that are tax rorters?"

Mr Sheldon explains that a “holistic interpretation” of trustee obligation under superannuation law would mean looking at the effect of tax avoidance, leading to less government revenue, which means members will be denied access to health and other services in future years.

He also said that companies that worked to lower their wage bills would mean that members with poor pay would have less retirement income later.

Mr Sheldon has the No.1 spot on the NSW Labor senate ticket for the next election, guaranteeing him a seat, and has used his position to push for more ethical behaviour from companies before.

Last year, he lobbied industry super funds to withdraw investments in cargo-handling company Aerocare, which was involved in a dispute with the TWU over wages and conditions.

"We need to take responsibility for how our money is invested and what effect those investments will have on members now and in the future," Mr Sheldon said.

Mr Sheldon said the job of super trustees was not just to ensure dignity in retirement, but a dignified path to retirement.

What do you think? Should for-profit funds be banned from competing in the superannuation marketplace? Should super funds take a more activist stance to push for higher wages and less corporate tax avoidance?

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    COMMENTS

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    Travellersjoy
    10th Oct 2018
    10:22am
    Bravo Mr Sheldon.

    Time for a root and branch review of income policy, whether in retirement or not.

    Neoliberalism has undone the social wage benefits that helped sustain decent living standards for everyone but the very rich, and transferred productivity gains in corporate profits, and more wealth for the very rich.

    If I lived in NSW I would vote for a senator with the capacity to think beyond the immediate symptoms, to the systemic issues.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    11:35am
    What do you think industry funds do then? Unions do very well out of them so they can't be non profit.
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    11:45am
    That OG is pure propaganda. The Independent reps, Employer reps and Union reps all receive the same Board payments. If Union reps choose to donate their income back to the union so be it. No different from Banks donating profits to the LNP or the IPA.

    The Employer reps could donate back too but I bet they don't. All that inherent greed would forbid giving anything to anyone.

    Paying wages and costs as you know comes out of profits. Unfortunately the Retail Funds have shareholders to feed as well and that's where the problem lies. Greedy shareholders wanting too much of the action.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    11:48am
    Now you know why I have my own SMSF.
    johnp
    10th Oct 2018
    12:53pm
    Dont know what oldgeezers agenda is here but its becoming very tedious and obviously political. anyway the industry super funds way outperform the retail and bank ones so for all practical purposes and for the average person the answer is obvious !!
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    12:59pm
    My SMSF outperform both industry and retails funds so no agenda here and certainly not a political one.
    MICK
    10th Oct 2018
    2:32pm
    OG - at it again. Rolling out the coalition party line.

    For the thousandth time: INDUSTRY FUNDS FAR OUTPERFORM RETAIL FUNDS. That is indisputable other than from trolls claiming otherwise. The same people likely were debunking climate science a decade ago.

    The sooner Australian super is freed from the grip of the retails side, the one where CEOs and their staff milk the fund relentlessly, the better. After all the money in these funds does not belong to the top end of town, although this cohort believes otherwise.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    2:45pm
    Agree about climate change it belongs out the windows with your story about industry funds outperforming retail funds.

    Yes climate change is real and fortunately for us it is as without it we would not be here. We ourselves are a result of climate change and no we can't stop it either.
    MICK
    10th Oct 2018
    3:14pm
    OG? I'm mortified. You are actually speaking against your parties propaganda. Amazing.
    We CAN change the future but not with big business demanding its coal money stream go on unabated. Also, we need far more to halt what is happening: reafforestation (farmers and loggers about to throw up), reducing population (big business about to start the next war - get the printing presses rolling Rupert) and renewable energy on a planet wide scale.
    Ok OG.....unlikely mankind has the ticker to stand up to the money and do what it needs to do in order to survive.

    Funny that you can't confront the TRUTH about Industry Funds. Nothing personal. The figures have been in for a long time. You can run but you can't hide! INDUSTRY FUNDS BEAT RETAIL FUNDS ON ALMOST EVERY MEASURE! End of BS.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    3:30pm
    As I said before Mick my super was in a couple of industry funds 20 years ago and they were doing nothing year after year. So I set my own SMSF and it has outperformed them every year since. I recently checked what it would cost me to have an industry fund manage my super and the cheapest fee was $22,000 per year plus all the hidden costs.
    Jim
    10th Oct 2018
    4:21pm
    As you state union reps in most instances donate their fee back to the union, does that mean they can then claim that donation back on their tax return thereby reducing their income and tax payable, and then do they have to declare their donation to the labor party and does the labor party declare they have received that donation, if so does that mean that the union and the labor party are double dipping, ie the rep reduces his tax payable and the union receives a donation. We should be looking at all the ways these grubby politicians from both sides of the political spectrum are stealing your money.
    Kaz
    10th Oct 2018
    4:28pm
    Old Geezer. You sure live up to your name! You embarrass yourself in making statements not supported by evidence and I despair for the future in that there are those who think like you! Hopefully you are too old to influence with your way of thinking. I have hope for the young in mind and heart.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    4:33pm
    Kaz I teach many young people financial and other life skills so my legacy will live on well after I have left the planet.
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    5:31pm
    MICK the COALition don't want SMSFas their mates at the banks make very little from them.
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    5:38pm
    Old Geezer is correct in stating SMSF are cheaper and can be run more profitably than either retail or industry funds. Money invested outside of super is even cheaper and far safer from sovereign risk. Advisors will not tell a couple they can make $58 000 a year tax free outside super with very few costs and a tax agent bill around $250 a year.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    6:15pm
    Agree Rae.
    MICK
    10th Oct 2018
    9:39pm
    I understand SMSFs can potentially make more and I am assuming those who have done well have gambled on one asset alone: real estate in Sydney or Melbourne. That is not brilliant investing. It's luck.
    Sure the fees are lower but then an annual audit takes a big hit unless you have a large portfolio. Horses for courses.

    Rae - this is the place to share HOW people can make $58,000 tax free outside of super. Sounds illegal but seeing is believing.
    roy
    10th Oct 2018
    9:49pm
    MICK, you are like a troll on steroids.
    MICK
    10th Oct 2018
    10:27pm
    Spoken like a half wit trolling for his government master.
    Get off the grog mate and go to bed and sleep it off.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    11:49pm
    Heeeey - I'm drinking a beer! But pardon me roy......is... oh, forget it... you know it by now....
    Rae
    11th Oct 2018
    9:22am
    MICK I trade indexes on a low cost platform. It's quite passive but can be rewarding provided you buy low and take profits promptly. I don't need to sell that often but close to a coming high and when I need funds. Keeping an eye on goings on requires time, copping the losses requires good self esteem and selling requires discipline.

    During this boom I could make $20 000 to $30 000 a quarter from a pot of $400 000.

    Most of the Industry Funds do exactly the same thing. The fees and charges should be based around actual costs plus the cost of maintaining fund offices, staff etc. It is always going to cost more to employ people than to do it yourself. It's not rocket science.

    And of course these traders are very conservative and follow formulas so cannot be quite as nimble as the individual.

    I hold only my own home and half an apartment in the Brisbane CBD. The return is not particularly good but suits the family especially as grandchildren head off to Uni.

    It is sometimes rented and sometimes not depending if family need the use of it.

    It was not bought for investment but for lifestyle. I have found property investment my worst failures and likely to lose me capital which is very bad indeed.

    I do not use debt now at all and have Superannuation in a large Industry Fund. I agree Industry Funds are cheaper and provide better returns than most Retail Funds bar the top fliers who actively trade well and take large fees from large profits. They outdo the Industry Funds but are not open to the average worker anyway.

    Real Estate has done well in this latest boom but sharemarkets have done even better.
    The investors in currency trades and commodities and debt have also done well if cautious but it's the weight of all that QE money that is creating this boom. Nothing to do with luck at all just Central Bankers doing what they do best. Stuffing markets up.
    Rae
    11th Oct 2018
    9:30am
    I suggest you read the work of Benjamin Graham, Buffett and Bogle. They explain quite well the methods of investing in markets for value and income.

    The beauty of a platform is the tax advice for the accountant is done for you. Thus the low accounting fees needed to be paid.
    Pen
    10th Oct 2018
    11:17am
    Totally agree Travellersjoy! No place for taking profits from OUR retirement money!!
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    11:40am
    Income policy is a joke. Millions of workers have to be propped up by Government money as the pay is too low.

    Either stop taxpayer sponsorship of business through wages support and let prices collapse to something vaguely resembling what the median wage can buy or force businesses to fairly share productivity and profit with their workforce.

    Corporate Socialism has gone quite far enough. The Prices and Income Accord has crippled income and left prices to gallop away requiring all that Centrelink topping up which is crazy.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    11:57am
    I agree with you as regards BigCorp, Rae - the problem there would be the inordinate impact on the small business middle classes - who some say are squarely in the sights of BigCorp and it BAPF (bought and paid for) government.

    Current policy clearly shows a desire to push p0rofit towards BigCorp and its shareholders in the mythical belief that 'trickledown', which has never worked yet, will somehow sustain the economy.

    Amazing that income support ends up as super payment anyway - so maybe cut out the middle man.

    What was that Indian wisdom thing - only a white Man would cut two inches off the bottom of a blanket, sew it to the bottom, and then say he has a longer blanket.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    11:52am
    Well, I know Tony Sheldon, so check me for bias.

    I've long advocated that all super funds be under one roof which is essentially not for profit.... so I'd have to agree with Tony. We may not agree on nuts and bolts, since I also include industry funds, but there you go....
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    11:58am
    Oh - Sheldon always was an honest Union man - I'm surprised he's finally sold out to the Labor Party as it now stands (or sits on its arse) for a shot at Parliament.
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    1:47pm
    So you are a union man
    Explains your left bias and inability to think objectively
    Still doesn’t explain why you are not able to grasp simple concepts like imputation credits though
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    2:03pm
    Being a Union man and upholding the rights of all equally and fair play is not the same as being a 'leftie'... any more than your being an alleged SMF operative with mega-bucks and massive income percentages makes you a 'rightie'....

    I am comfortably somewhere in the middle, like most people, but I uphold and value fair play - a trait learned on the Rugby field.....
    MICK
    10th Oct 2018
    10:31pm
    Think objectively olbaid? You are incapable of that. All you can do is repeat the slogan of the day from your party director. You rarely have anything to say that genuine posters can digest.
    Don't be too concerned about the serve TREBOR. To be expected as you are not conversing with real people. Real people offer factual views based on honest facts. You'll never get these from trolls posting rubbish and party dogma.
    MON
    10th Oct 2018
    12:14pm
    Just goes to show, socialism is alive and kicking in the union movements. I would listen to Comrade Sheldon if union controlled industry super funds didn't waste money on advertising at major events and similar. Comrade Sheldon only wants For Profit Super Funds abolished so that his union control of funds is increased. I would listen if these union controlled funds were banned from running political advertising during the state and federal election cycles.
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    1:50pm
    Socialism is alive and kicking in Australia all over the place. In fact all Chinese State Businesses, electricity, ports etc support communist China. The LNP seem to think this a great idea. Do not under any circumstances help out our own workers though. Socialism gone too far to pay people decent wages.

    Will you also ban the Feudal Lords from advertising or only the worker's groups?
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    2:06pm
    That's the difference between International Socialism and (for want of a better term) National Socialism, Rae.... many confuse the difference between the actions of the German National Socialist party and what National Socialism is really about..... but you can't help sufferers from self-inflicted Optical Rectalitis - viewing the world upside down and confusing signals from their anus with those from their eyes.....
    MICK
    10th Oct 2018
    10:34pm
    Your last sentence says it all Rae. The media is the perfect example: they run blatant propaganda and groom their own for government whilst crying bias when the ABC gives anything to do with Labor any positive air time. God forbid if the ABC investigates the dirt in the coalition machine. That is apparently not fair.
    KSS
    10th Oct 2018
    12:22pm
    Conflict of interest much Mr Sheldon?

    But then Mr Shorten has already promised to run Australia like a Union so presumably the Unions will do very well out of industry super funds (even more than currently) if Mr Sheldon is successful in prosecuting his ideas.

    Mr Shorten will tax you to the hilt (all the expensive promised currently being made) lower your income (removal of franking credits, increase CGT and remove negative gearing) and then the Unions will take what's left (super payments back to unions even from none members).

    Bring on the election!
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    1:01pm
    People are just so stupid if they election Shorten and have the country run by unions. Then again might be some real bargains in housing to be picked up after they destroy the place economically.
    Whinger01
    10th Oct 2018
    1:02pm
    They will have to be quick the way NAB,CBA AND AMP and all the others are ripping us off even after death with the Coalition no wanting a Royal Commission into banks where they getting kick backs.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    1:06pm
    If no one tells them you are dead then how do they know not to charge you? When they are notified your accounts are frozen so they have to wait until they get the go ahead for some sort of payout to refund the charges made after you died. Learn the rules.
    Captain
    10th Oct 2018
    1:15pm
    Correct OG, when you notify the bank of a death, funds cannot be taken out but deposits can be made into the account.

    If the bank is not notified then any deductions such as direct debits, etc will continue until the bank is notified. Simple.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    1:17pm
    Some banks wont even allow deposits.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    2:08pm
    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/apartment-projects-blacklisted-major-aussie-bank-203150522.html?utm_source=Campaign_Monitor&utm_medium=Edm&utm_campaign=DailySnap_Newsletter&utm_term=DailySnap_Newsletter&ncid=dailysnapshotau_dailysnaps_yaptekbs7gs

    "An undisclosed major bank has a blacklist of 6700 apartment projects across Australia.

    The projects are where buyers are either refused loans or are offered reduced loan to value ratios (LVR).

    Also read: 20 highest-paying Aussie industries revealed

    The list has been obtained by The Australian Financial Review from the mortgage broker, Home Loan Experts. The newspaper article only pinpointed a handful of effected projects.

    It reveals projects where buyers have either been denied loans or offered less funding are 19 Larkin Street in Camperdown in inner-city Sydney, Finbar’s Aire apartments in West Perth and Meriton’s developments on Main Beach on the Gold Coast and 1 Janoa Place in Chiswick, inner west Sydney.

    Sydney-based Home Loan Experts noted “blacklisted” projects vary across the banks.

    Areas which are consistently “blacklisted” however include Wolli Creek and Zetland (above) in inner south Sydney and the Brisbane CBD given a potential oversupply of new units or the bank reaching maximum exposure of loans on a project, managing director Otto Dargan said."

    Intrerestinger and interestinger.....
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    5:57pm
    Yes TREBOR and unfortunately nothing can stop a liquidity crisis once it has begun.

    There are also only 9% of unionist workers now anyway, most in the public service or dangerous job sites. Everyone else is pretty much fair game now.

    Had news of two younger friends made redundant just today. No union support and they are in big trouble with high rents and car leases to service until their contracts run out.
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    6:02pm
    when the unions were in power, unemployment was high.

    until one day Aussies cane to their senses and ditched the unions but not before they destroyed our manufacturing sector
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    6:51pm
    Unions don't hold power in government, diablo.... and the manufacturing sector is run by its managers.... who from your statement were and are not up to the job...
    MICK
    10th Oct 2018
    10:38pm
    Unions never destroyed our manufacturing industries. Greedy business people demanding to import cheaper goods and their coalition government did that.
    Paul Keating did not help by deregulating the dollar but it was John Howard who started the flog off mentality and it was his government which let the world's third biggest LNG deposit be sold to foreigners. Do I hear 'we have no gas' and have to frack on fertile farming land going around again. Of course not. Can't have people telling the historical facts can we.
    Whinger01
    10th Oct 2018
    12:31pm
    The only one to profit from my Superannuation should be me not banks and there share holders simple.
    Captain
    10th Oct 2018
    4:16pm
    Whinger 01, if you only want you to profit (or lose depending on your financial expertise) from your Superannuation then set up a SMSF.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    4:31pm
    I agree the only way you keep all the profit is set up your own SMSF which can cost anywhere from $1000 up in expenses.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    11:56pm
    You are right there, OG... unfortunately without a genuine not for profit, costs will always be there.. but running your own is fraught with dangers...

    I'm considering getting into shares, but I will not, on principle, buy imputed dividend shares... I've always honestly paid my taxes and will continue to do so.... and I neither need nor want any 'tax dodge'.....

    I'm one of those sad cases who actually believe in things nowadays..... as did Tony Sheldon once - but I never thought he'd go for a political seat to shore up his retirement and kow-tow to the 'system' by taking that option as a 'reward' for service.

    Some of us don't need rewards or medals... just the satisfaction of a job well done...

    I guess I'm out of touch ......
    Jim
    11th Oct 2018
    7:57am
    You need to explain why you think investing in shares that attract imputation credits as being in some way immoral, which is what you seem to be claiming, if you have shares that are franked, what ever amount they are franked at is the amount of tax that has been paid on your behalf, so as in any investment you are allowed to claim that tax back against your income, if you have paid more tax than you are liable for then you are allowed to claim that tax back, if your income exceeds the tax free allowance you are not entitled to any refund, this is exactly the same for any investment you make. Try not to get caught up in Shorten’s politics of envy.
    Whinger01
    10th Oct 2018
    12:36pm
    MLC/NAB wanted $2000.00 to set up a transition to retirement plan for me 5 years ago CBUS sent me the 2 page application by post with a return paid envelope and no cost. Who is profiteering here. MLC/NAB said I would have no up front costs as they would take the $2000.00 out of my account what would the cost have been in the long term with lost interest on the $2000.00? Giv me an Industry Fund any day.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    1:04pm
    How much Is CBUS charging you?
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    1:54pm
    The retirement plan for not for profits usually cost nothing. Just a bit of paper filling in and you also get an annual free advice service.

    I looked t a MLC prospectus back in 2006 and if I'd taken it would have lost hundreds of thousands and paid fees averaging over 4% of profits.

    It was a joke but I bet the gullible fell right into the fancy office and glossy brochure.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    2:56pm
    I recently looked at what it would cost in both retail and industry funds to manage my super. The cheapest one was $22,000 a year and the dearest over $40,000. That's after they have all taken their profits etc out of the funds so I'd hate to even guess what the real cost would be.
    floss
    10th Oct 2018
    12:40pm
    Great idea at last a person that thinks with his brain not his wallet like a lot that comment on this site.You will hear the tired old greedy group that oppose this idea,perhaps they have not followed the Royal Commission.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    1:03pm
    Some of us have to think with both are brains and wallets as we don't get hand outs to live.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    2:14pm
    Course you do, OG - DI, CGT and NG... everybody has their cut from Big Guv..... none more than businesses....

    Shorten's scheme is not to abolish those thing - DI is to be returned to its pre-Costello blunder paradigm - there is no longer money in the till due to the LNP's massive borrowings to fund such gifting; CGT is 'concessional' even though NG has been applied throughout life of the 'project' and is thus wrong - you should get one or the other, not both; and NG for housing (only - I copped some NG for a stage production I funded and ran) is providing benefit to investment in deadstock instead of real infrastructure for the current and future benefit of the nation.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    2:48pm
    Good Trebor and I hope you enjoy sharing your OAP with another 500,000 more pensioners. I will just sit on the sidelines and watch the show.
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    3:02pm
    Leading economists predict a return to surplus sooner than projected by the LnP

    The tax cuts and sound economic policy, supported by growing tax revenue will see Australia return to a surplus budget by 2020. The first time since the Howard Costello glory days
    Robbo
    10th Oct 2018
    4:20pm
    Yes olbaid and we have never been better off than now and
    of course that is the result of good economic policy.
    We are in real trouble if a dick like this Sheldon gets in.
    I thought he would be better just steeling funds from the union members
    more money in that.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    4:34pm
    Robbo they will do what it takes to get their grubby hands on our super money.
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    6:19pm
    Well Olbaid let's hope the private sector can take up the slack then. It's problematic when a Government is bent on surplus going into a demand collapse. The private sector will need a lot of capital or be prepared to take on even more debt.

    The Australian Government has never ever defaulted on debt unlike the private sector which does so every so often. Those banking/credit crisis are far harder to fix than a Sovereign default believe it or not.

    I seriously doubt Morrison has any idea about economics or history and there does not appear to be an historical economist within cooee of Canberra or they'd be worried about the boom collapsing and a liquidity trap instead of a piddling $600 billion deficit.

    Not that I think Labor will be any better in fact I think their plans and legislations are already causing problems and they are still in opposition.

    So when we get a surplus what then? Will it fix the balance of trade, sort out the hospital bed shortage, the energy fiasco, global warming or even schools for those hundreds of thousands of babies? Didn't think so.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    6:54pm
    You are a laugh a minute, diablo - and you, OG ,...... you have the right to sit on the sidelines, Don-kay - you just don't use it!
    Migrant
    10th Oct 2018
    12:41pm
    This is an interesting development in the Mutual v Proprietory agrument which has been waged since the insurance companies were established back in the 1800s.
    Can we learn from History, or are we destined to repeat the mistakes of the past?
    In Australia the large mutual life offices, AMP, NMLA, CML, T &G, were dominant, until recently their Boards were persuaded to demutualise and become proprietary offices. This led to amalgamations and takeovers until AMP Ltd was the last one standing. The focus changed from policyholders to shareholders, and the culture of greed, and rewards for executives dominated.
    The solution does not lie in the description ....non profit... but in the desire of Trustees to ensure that superannuation Funds always act in the interest of the members.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    2:15pm
    Spot on, Migrant.
    floss
    10th Oct 2018
    12:45pm
    Time for your pills KSS.and a good snooze, enough excitement for the day.
    KSS
    10th Oct 2018
    12:57pm
    Doesn't make my comment untrue though even if you disagree floss!
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    1:02pm
    Floss you have forgotten your chill out pills.
    Not a Bludger
    10th Oct 2018
    1:29pm
    This is the claptrap that is emblematic of Shorten and his Marxist/trotskyite mates luckily rejected by many European, Scandinavian, UK, USA and Brasil.
    Only getting airtime here because of leftie journos whom we have allowed to dominate the media.
    Think Sheldon/Shorten/ Plibersek Think Venezuela.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    2:16pm
    Link??
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    1:39pm
    What a self serving moron
    So he wants to ban all super funds - retail , industry and smsf’s . They are all for profit
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    2:52pm
    They are trying to get control of all super and their biggest problem is SMSFs as they can't gain control of them as they are controlled by far too many people instead of under one umbrella. The day is coming when super wont belong to you at all and you will only be able to use it to gain an income for your retirement. It will then be taken by the government upon your death.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    6:55pm
    Where did he say the Unions should control all funds, boys?

    Maybe he just agrees that super needs to be removed from the hands of parasites and vultures.....
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    6:59pm
    you mean he wants to place all super under parasites and vultures - the leaners and rent seekers . union parasites
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:43pm
    No - he wants to remove control over funds from vultures and parasites.... he just doesn't extend his reasoning far enough, a trait shared by your good self at times....
    Old Geezer
    11th Oct 2018
    3:45pm
    Trebor I hope you are not calling me a vulture or a parasite as I control my own super.
    Charlie
    10th Oct 2018
    1:54pm
    I'm not going to say anything about this..
    Jim
    10th Oct 2018
    1:57pm
    His one comment that makes him a very dangerous man, he lobbied industry super funds to withdraw funds from a particular company because they were in a dispute with the transport union, so does that mean he feels justified in lobbying against any company that he may not like or that are at odds with the union movement irrespective of how well they might perform, the majority of workers are no longer members of any union so as a senator how can he represent the majority of constituents, the simple answer is he can’t. I don’t have a problem with union run industry funds, I do have a problem with someone who thinks he can dictate to me where my funds are invested and in particular if those funds can only be invested in companies that are sympathetic towards any organisation, union or otherwise, I can’t understand how the majority of people can’t see how wrong this.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    2:18pm
    A fair point... I was not aware that Tony did that - but there must have been a good reason. Surely, though, those who are entrusted with running the investments for any fund have the discretion to say where and how much.... every other fund does that....

    Just looking at both sides of the coin.....
    Not a Bludger
    10th Oct 2018
    2:52pm
    Jeez Jim - simple - these people are leftie socialists who want to control everybodies lives - this one (of Shorten's mates) simply wants to control their money as well!
    Jim
    10th Oct 2018
    3:05pm
    I just wouldn’t want anyone else’s ideology to control how or where my funds were invested, as for other funds having the discretion as to where funds are invested, I think the return on investment should be the only criteria, I,m not sure I would know if my funds were being invested ethically or otherwise and I dare that would be the case for most of us
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    3:05pm
    " I was not aware that Tony did that - but there must have been a good reason."

    Spoken like a true lemming - no ability to think for oneself
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    6:31pm
    Fair point.

    And definitely not ethical.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    6:57pm
    " Surely, though, those who are entrusted with running the investments for any fund have the discretion to say where and how much.... every other fund does that...."

    Your selective reading is showing, diablo.... German time zone again?

    Rae - do you disagree that all fund operators make the same choices? That's what they're paid for..... would AMP super managers loan money out to Union run project?

    Every coin has two sides... and every sword two edges (or more)....
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    6:58pm
    The reason I shred you every day, diablo - is because I do think for myself - and you can't.
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    7:02pm
    legend in your own lunch box. I read your posts every day and laugh at your simple mind .
    find it hard to believe you can post so much rubbish and delude yourself that you actually make sense
    i am beginning to think you have serious issues
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:46pm
    See what I mean about slagging, diablo? You did it from Day One and still I treat you generally with civility and courtesy - then you and your running dogs whine when others do it to you...

    did-ums...

    'my simple mind' - I'm not the one who imagines that the current handling of dividend imputation that makes it 'tax effective' is the only way it should be and that it should not accept mandated changes.... you are.... that's pretty simply - what I get must come tome for life and beyond - like a small child wanting food....
    Pen
    10th Oct 2018
    2:34pm
    MICK, spot on!
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    3:04pm
    Que?

    What has Mick ever been "spot on" on except maybe a colonoscopy. He sorely needs one
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    6:59pm
    Every time you disagree with him, diablo... you haven't been right yet apart from your comments on the feminist matriarchy.... but you are a reactionary desperately seeking to hold on to the advantages you've received from Liberal government past and cannot see the real need for change....
    roy
    10th Oct 2018
    9:54pm
    MICK, the troll on steroids.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    11:31pm
    Pardon me, roy - is Mick the cat that chewed your Lib views?
    Old Man
    10th Oct 2018
    4:22pm
    We are continually told that competition is good for consumers; the more players, the better the deal. Does this thought bubble mean that there will be less players and our personal choice will become irrelevant? Will Sheldon's next thought bubble be that all those who invest in an industry super fund must become members of that union? This is the man who almost killed the trucking industry in Australia in an attempt to increase membership of the TWU.
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    6:34pm
    He didn't do too much to save our Maritime Industry either from what I've heard. I may be wrong. Transport in Australia is a disaster and far too costly.

    When I was farming it took at least 30% of the profits to transport grain from the farm to the seaboard. It was outrageously expensive and still is.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:08pm
    How exactly did seeking union membership destroy any industry, OM? Rae?

    Sheldon ensured that proper rest breaks were mandatory, and that driving hours per day were limited, thus saving countless lives of drivers on highways.

    I can still count the places on our highway where the trucks go off the road - mostly through drivers going to sleep, though the last one was a 4WD that tried to right turn across the highway in front of a truck, and the truck driver heroically went to the trees rather than mash it to pulp... still hit it, but didn't kill both on board...

    Many of those drivers who go to sleep are not following the rules, and if your statement is correct, are not Union members.

    Add to that the huge number of 'independent owner/operators' who go bust every year, and you'll get the point about truckies, unions, costs of transport, under-cutting and under-paying for a run by management, unsafe vehicles through poor maintenance, and so forth.

    At least where the union is strong, they have yardsticks that guarantee owner/operators a fair return for their work and their vehicle, and it is clear that crass exploitation costs lives.

    As with industry above, Rae - the management sets the prices and make the decisions and handles the negotiations over payment rates - look to them and their incompetence for any heavy costs and failures. Put simply, many managers have simply no idea.... just play with figures and imagine that's all there is to it.
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    7:13pm
    There you go Rae - Robert has described exactly what is wrong with the unions and how they destroyed the profitability of corporations and sustainabilty of those industries in Oz

    He's a union luddite through and through. Never mind what happens to businesses or jobs, so long as they get to suck money out of members and siphon / pilfer from the coffers
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:51pm
    Management runs the show, diablo - not the union... you're deliberately barking up the wrong tree....

    Let me correct that for you:-

    There you go Rae - Robert has described exactly what is wrong with managements and how they destroyed the profitability of corporations and sustainabilty of those industries in Oz

    He's an ex-union and educated humanitarian forward thinker through and through. The view of management is - never mind what happens to businesses or jobs or the overall economy, so long as management get to suck money out of workers and operations and siphon / pilfer from the coffers to feed their shareholders and themselves.

    All done - no fee for sitting on a commission of audit on glaring mistakes on YLC..... I donate my time to helping the blind.....
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    8:13pm
    Just one clear example, diablo sheeple - what part of - "A load involved in an accident due to the driver falling asleep through being over exploited by management and trying to make ends meet and unreasonable schedules will not meet the schedule and will result in need for a second run fully funded doubling the cost already - do you not understand?"

    Talk about 'a small mind'.....
    mareela
    10th Oct 2018
    4:58pm
    Olbaid your outrageous bias and rudeness prevents you from engaging in any debate and therefore your opinion is less than worthless. You’re nothing but an indoctrinated sheeple which is a pity as there are always two sides to a debate but you are totally incapable of presenting your views in a meaningful way.
    Old Geezer
    10th Oct 2018
    5:14pm
    Even I am not as rude as you Mareela.
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    5:14pm
    you mean my view differes from yours, hence I'm biased ???
    ROFLMAO
    Typical of one with your political persuasion to want to stifle free speech
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    5:15pm
    Compared to mareela, youre a saint OG
    Not a Bludger
    10th Oct 2018
    5:17pm
    What is a sheeple - I want to defend olbaid.
    Rae
    10th Oct 2018
    6:46pm
    A sheeple is someone who listens and believes right wing media presented by Murdoch and crew. As opposed to left wing believers who frequent sites such as the Guardian.

    A sheeple can only see the side the Elites want them to see and believe one day they may even join that happy band of rich and powerful people.

    Olbaid isn't a sheeple although he is a Capitalist. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

    Most sheeple would not recognise either a Capitalist or a Socialist if they fell over them.

    There are several Capitalists who comment here and that is fair enough. We live in a Capitalist Democracy with certain Socialist Industries such as welfare, medicare , free education etc.

    The right and left meeting in the yin/yang balance would be terrific in my opinion. It's sort of what we had around 30 years ago.
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:11pm
    Well - mareela is correct..... don't cry, diablo - you''re the one who started off the slagging here... can't complain when it comes back to bite you... it seems to be such a part of your pompous know-all nature that you don't even know you are doing it... get out and do a real job for a while and see ....

    Did-ums!
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:13pm
    .. and don't be such a sheeple....

    What do you mean, Rae, that diablo is not a sheeple? He never utters one original word..... and thinks what he's told is right and that the way things are is immutable and will remain that way forever regardless of reality....

    Following the capitalist goats is not being a sheeple?
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    7:14pm
    real job?
    i do very well thank you very much. My "real job" provides me with all my needs and wants and then some
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:53pm
    The Welsh prayed on their knees - and preyed on everyone else.....

    The Scots know the value of a pound as long as it's someone else's ...

    The English, Old Geezer, and diablo are all self-made people, thus relieving the Almighty of a terrible burden of guilt and responsibility.......

    You're the reason the Khmer Rouge sent city dwellers etc out to till fields of rice, diablo..... hard work will make you free... try it for a change...
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    8:08pm
    People who live by skimming off the wages of labourers are parasites. Theft is what union fees are. The parasites steal directly from the workers and then again from money invested on behalf of the workers

    At least I earn my money . Up at 6 every morning to catch the Oz sharemarket closing and following EU and US markets till late evening

    It is you Robert - who have never done a real days work. Living off others - how shameful
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    8:18pm
    Again don't force me to correct your inanity and make you look foolish in front of the crowd....

    People who live by skimming off the wages of labourers are parasites. Theft is what management exploitation and abuse are. Unions fees are a fee for service in seeking to protect worker's rights and conditions..... up to and including making presentations to the regular income determination bodies...

    The parasites (management and shareholders) steal directly from the workers and then again from money invested on behalf of the workers, often by not paying into super funds or incorrectly paying, or in some cases looting company run super funds....

    What century do you live in? You have an amazingly idealised view of management etc... butter wouldn't melt in their mouths - forget the cuts to real wages and conditions for crass exploitation...

    Hopelessly biased as any sheeple with a small mind... you just have to be a troll - nobody could say those things with a straight face...
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    8:20pm
    Did-ums - up at 5 am to hit the chair... soooo hard....

    Never done a single day's work in your life and no idea what it is.....

    How have I lived off others, diablo? Put your foot in it!!
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    8:21pm
    You ARE a troll and a teenager, aren't you? Otherwise you couldn't be for real.... and the way you perpetuate this kind of personal slagging.... and never contact any issue in any real sense....
    olbaid
    11th Oct 2018
    1:22am
    Women tell me all the time I look in my 40’s
    Comes with having a positive outlook, being happy and self made
    Only leaners whinge all the time wanting more from taxpayers
    The green eyed monster ages you very quickly Robert
    Try and be happy old boy
    Captain
    11th Oct 2018
    8:44am
    Olbaid, where do you live if you arise at 6.00am to watch the close of THE OZ Sharemarket???
    MD
    10th Oct 2018
    7:51pm
    Hah! So holier than thou Sheldon - he of the former high and mighty TWU has managed to slither sideways into a cushy little earner to further the views of the fading proletariat eh? Bloody nerve of the man to criticise "for profit" businesses once he has stepped down from a 'we stand for the workers' union business facade (that is) exempt from paying taxes.
    Jeez, I can just recall days long gone bye and former dealings with his union: at a time when super was introduced and Sheldons' then compatriots/comrades were falling over each other to set 'emselves up for a lifetime sinecure in a guaranteed 'nice little earner'.
    Obviously old habits die hard, that or Sheldon couldn't manage to elbow one of the old party comrades aside for a lifetime seat/stall at the Super trough so he's managed to slide sideways in for a second fiddle. Reminds me of the proverb - "There's many a good tune played on an old fiddle", and he'd know the right strings to pluck to keep everyone humming.

    Bah... Humbug!
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    7:57pm
    Most people in such positions are finding nice little earners - and I have pointed the same finger at unions in the past....

    Sheeple assume that since I was a past Union man, I agree with everything they did or what they have become.... but then how would they know since they've never seen the inside but read the (biased) papers instead... the ones that continue to claim that business fled our shores because of unions - when the truth is that the way our economy is structured requires a high level of income for all just to survive...

    People who believe that kind of nonsense do not understand real economics... but only understand what bits of it benefit them....
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    8:04pm
    They're called sheeple ........ we have some here..... with small minds...... (ROFL emoticon implied)....
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    8:24pm
    I'll get back to your childish preoccupation with things and people you don't know anything about and cannot understand, diablo... I've got a movie to watch online and maybe do my hair....

    If you're such a superstar with the big dullahs - why are you even bothering being here?
    olbaid
    10th Oct 2018
    8:29pm
    Helps to take a break from working on my trading to read the hilarious rubbish that you post

    and to dispel the lies from idiot posters who want to take away money from hardworking Australians - idiots who want franking credits removed for example
    TREBOR
    10th Oct 2018
    11:37pm
    Yet you have no answer to anything apart from personal slagging... that says it all as far as you are concerned... apart from your incredible focus on a some interpersonal conflict generated in your own small mind....

    I best you every time, foreign troll... and I doubt you have any 'trading' based on your puerile and narrow idea of how things work.... am I supposed to be 'jealous' that you 'trade' for a living? I've done far more than you could ever imagine in this life.... and I know you could not begin to keep up.

    Unfortunately - no amount of your sledging me personally will cause me to reveal anything much about myself beyond what those here already know... you can stop trying... I don't respond to recon by fire... sonny, and I'm way in front on the tactics issues.
    TREBOR
    11th Oct 2018
    12:04am
    ...... on the other hand...... we here know already heaps about you ........ you just keep putting your foot in your mouth.... trust me - there's more I've worked out about you than you realise.... certain of your responses indicate certain things ....but my saying that is a security breach...... which might also be a security breach ...

    Remember those circles, 'son'?
    olbaid
    11th Oct 2018
    2:49am
    Here you go old boy. Pass it on to your champagne socialist mates who will be looking for offshore options by the thousands when Shorten gets in

    http://www.dominicacitizenshipbyinvestment.com
    Rae
    11th Oct 2018
    9:41am
    I wouldn't wait until Shorten gets in to get out of the ASX.
    On the Ball
    11th Oct 2018
    7:15pm
    1: OG: I am surprised you have time to contribute, with all that money counting. But we are not all financial wizards. There are people on here that just want a reliable steady income from their retirement nesteggs and can't/don't want to be troubled by the intricacies of a SMSF.
    Don't be an "A.J." and shout them down.

    2: The integrity, reliability and profitability (for the retiree) of Industry Super Funds has been demonstrated by The current Treasurer, Josh Frydenburg who pulled his own superannuation out of a retail fund and deposited it in Australian Super....
    Knows-a-lot
    14th Oct 2018
    2:43pm
    Excellent Tony Sheldon!


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