23rd Nov 2016
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Bill Shorten talks about a better future for superannuation
Bill Shorten talks about a better future for superannuation

Bill Shorten wants to talk about super, but he prefers to discuss how it could be better invested to help our economy and not how “very wealthy individuals” can simply make more money.

Speaking at Parliament House at the Industry Super Australia conference on Monday night, Mr Shorten said he wants a national debate about how Australia’s $2. 1 trillion combined superannuation funds can be better invested in the country’s high-end infrastructure needs and how best to prepare for the influx of 5 million over 65s expected in the coming years.

“The conversation we ought to be having is how we clear away the blockages and impediments that prevent superannuation funds from investing in high-quality, productivity-boosting, nation-building infrastructure that creates good jobs,” he said.

Mr Shorten wants elected officials to take a visionary approach to super investment.

“Let’s extend ourselves a little bit,” he said. “Let’s look beyond the next election and focus on the next generation.”

“Not just investment in infrastructure but greater investment in private equity, to help build the companies and jobs of tomorrow,” he said. “And greater investment in affordable housing and other ‘impact investing’ – providing good returns for members and contributing to a more just society.

“The conversation we ought to be having about super is how we address the massive gender gap in retirement savings.

“If we stay true to that promise, if we keep faith with that ideal, then we’ll be much better placed for the challenges that lie ahead.”

Concluding his speech, Mr Shorten defended industry super funds, claiming that all Australian cities and towns benefit from industry fund investment and that the Government needs to treat them with the same respect as other financial institutions.

Read more at The New Daily.

How would you feel about your superannuation being invested in Australian infrastructure? Are you happy with how your super is invested? Is this based on financial or ethical factors?

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    COMMENTS

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    Peanuts
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:37am
    Would not trust any politician with my Super!
    Pablo
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:42am
    Agree 100% Peanuts.
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    12:25am
    Peanuts

    IF we had a NATIONAL PENSION FUND (NPF) that could NOT EVER be touched by the politicians, it would be a much, much, much BETTER option that what we have now.

    Do you really trust the BANKS & other BIG BOYS to look after YOU before themselves! Because that is what our PRIVATE, DISJOINTED and MONEY in the POCKETS of many, many people before YOU get any benefits from your own money.

    A Govt NPF would guarantee a certain increment and because of the size of the fund, they could maintain that increment even when times and private markets (stock markets, etc) are DOWN! They could also pay you your funds no matter what the private markets are at.... crashed or not! So, like so many that wanted to retire during the GFC and how the private markets crashed and they didn't have enough anymore to retire on, this would NEVER happen.

    The COUNTRY would become WEALTHIER INSTEAD of PRIVATE WEALTHY ELITE POCKETS (many foreign pockets).

    The superfund could INVEST in AUSTRALIA and its FUTURE... obviously restricted to major infrastructure, etc.... for our kids and grandkids.

    This Americanised superannuation system that we have in Australia is a dogs breakfast, puts money in already wealthy pockets, costs Australians lots of money and doesn't guarantee a cent - if your fund goes down, so does your fund!

    Nah... it is a disgusting system that needs to change... so that Australians who work hard, can retire with some dignity when they get old, instead of struggling to survive!!
    Retired Knowall
    24th Nov 2016
    6:44am
    " if your fund goes down, so does your fund!" Really?
    Super is merely a tax minimisation tool whilst developing your portfolio and as such works very well.
    Bonny
    24th Nov 2016
    8:34am
    We all ready have such a scheme it's call welfare including OAP. It doesn't go down with the markets.

    Super is just a great add on to it or in some cases a much better way of funding one's retiremet is a very tax effective way.

    Educate yourself and don't put your money into anything you don't understand or know how it works. People do this with everything else in life but neglect to do so with one of their biggest assets. I call it stupidty.
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    11:47pm
    very funny Retired Knowall....

    Bonny.... eeerrrrhhhh NO, it is NOT welfare... you say you are one for educating yourself, then you should learn the difference between Welfare and SUPER FUNDS.

    This is YOUR money which is SAFE, GUARANTEED minimum increments, GUARANTEED payout on retirement, NO FEES and your money is used to invest in strictly stipulated AUSTRALIAN INFRASTRUCTURE an PROJECTS, etc.

    Better for Australia and better for every hard working Australian. Lot, lot better than "FEEDING" the wealthy trolls that live in the shadows.
    Pablo
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:41am
    I'm happy with how my superannuation is invested. I am NOT happy with politicians wanting to change the rules every 5 minutes, I am NOT happy with being singled out all the time because I invested a greater proportion of my wages into super rather than spending it, I am NOT happy with shorten's carry-on about my super being invested in Australian infrastructure by incompetent politicians and public servants! I invested in super for one reason and that is to provide me with a better lifestyle in retirement! I don't want anything to do with a Government who wants to change the way my super is invested.
    Toddy
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:38am
    Agree totally!
    Circum
    23rd Nov 2016
    4:20pm
    ditto
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    12:27am
    IF we had a NATIONAL PENSION FUND (NPF) that could NOT EVER be touched by the politicians, it would be a much, much, much BETTER option that what we have now.

    Do you really trust the BANKS & other BIG BOYS to look after YOU before themselves! Because that is what our PRIVATE, DISJOINTED and MONEY in the POCKETS of many, many people before YOU get any benefits from your own money.

    A Govt NPF would guarantee a certain increment and because of the size of the fund, they could maintain that increment even when times and private markets (stock markets, etc) are DOWN! They could also pay you your funds no matter what the private markets are at.... crashed or not! So, like so many that wanted to retire during the GFC and how the private markets crashed and they didn't have enough anymore to retire on, this would NEVER happen.

    The COUNTRY would become WEALTHIER INSTEAD of PRIVATE WEALTHY ELITE POCKETS (many foreign pockets).

    The superfund could INVEST in AUSTRALIA and its FUTURE... obviously restricted to major infrastructure, etc.... for our kids and grandkids.

    This Americanised superannuation system that we have in Australia is a dogs breakfast, puts money in already wealthy pockets, costs Australians lots of money and doesn't guarantee a cent - if your fund goes down, so does your fund!

    Nah... it is a disgusting system that needs to change... so that Australians who work hard, can retire with some dignity when they get old, instead of struggling to survive!!
    Bonny
    24th Nov 2016
    8:35am
    We already have one it's called welfare.
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    11:48pm
    Bonny.... eeerrrrhhhh NO, it is NOT welfare... you say you are one for educating yourself, then you should learn the difference between Welfare and SUPER FUNDS.

    This is YOUR money which is SAFE, GUARANTEED minimum increments, GUARANTEED payout on retirement, NO FEES and your money is used to invest in strictly stipulated AUSTRALIAN INFRASTRUCTURE an PROJECTS, etc.

    Better for Australia and better for every hard working Australian. Lot, lot better than "FEEDING" the wealthy trolls that live in the shadows.
    kev888
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:01am
    My advice is:- don't put anymore than necessary into your super fund it is clearly evident the govt agenda is to take what they can. You are better paying off a property and gain tax benefits rather than throwing your hard earned money into the dark hole super has become.
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2016
    12:03pm
    Anyone under 40 today would be stupid to put more money than required into super as it has a good chance of being nationalised before they reach retirement. This means if you leave super behind after you die it will be the property of the government to help out others in retirement.
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    12:44am
    The wealthy would disagree! They make huge concessions by being able to put hundreds of thousands in their super funds. Instead of paying 45% they only pay 15%... they make a killing!

    Plus they look after their own super funds in many cases, so that they can do a lot more than you can with your money. ie... like invest in their own business property (and some workers who stupidly join their bosses super funds).

    The average hard worker puts their money in Super but gets shagged along the way by those wealthy elite who have their hands out for their share of the workers booty. The financial advice fees, the fund fees, the hidden fees, insurance costs, etc... all these people taking a piece of the WORKERS super.

    Then you have the "market" that is investigated in by the super funds.... you don't think the banks and other big boys ensure your superfunds are used to invest in THEIR projects, so that THEY make more money.

    This dogs breakfast of private super funds is based upon the American system of the wealthy RIPPING the ordinary person off.

    The BEST superannuation system is one that is GOVT CONTROLLED.... politicians being UNABLE to touch any part of this fund... we don't want another Menzies stealing the peoples future funds do we!

    Any advantage of the fund, such as investments in govt infrastructure, benefit the country and NOT private wealthy big boy pockets (easy money that requires NO innovation NOR does it put back anything into Australia, as these swines don't pay taxes and much of the money is in offshore accounts..... even Turnbull uses them).
    Funds would NOT be affected by "markets" and would have guaranteed increments and be able to payout the correct amount when you reach the stipulated age. So, so much better than the rubbish system we currently have... benefits very little EXCEPT megacorps (mostly foreign); big end of town; and wealth elite.

    Another think to would be that the wealthy couldn't RORT the system and get HUGE TAX BENEFITS!!!

    Nah.... help yourself and help Australia's future and DITCH this disgusting PRIVATE Super system which was designed by the wealthy, for the wealthy and give us something for EVERY AUSTRALIAN and not just a select few!!!!!!!!!!!
    Bonny
    24th Nov 2016
    8:38am
    It is so cheap today to set up your own SMSF so anyone can do what the wealthy do. No excuses.

    The biggest risk I have is having cash in the bank. Inflation and tax gives negative returns nearly every year. That's not an investment.
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    11:58pm
    Bonny

    It is NOT cheap because you have to have it properly accounted for and audited and the rules for the Trustees are becoming stricter AT LAST!!!

    Hence, there are huge legal and other obligations a Trustee needs to comply with, although the range of investments that can be made have extended.

    So NO, not many can do what the wealthy do, as it is not worth it.... even the ATO are looking at accountants that put people into SMSFs when their fund is less than $300,000 because it is NOT cost effective!

    Re your stated risk of having cash in the bank with low interest (it is not inflation) and tax can't turn it into a negative because tax is (at its maximum) only 45%. No it is NOT an investment BUT if you had a PUBLIC SUPER FUND, it wouldn't be a bother because you would be guaranteed a minimum increment per annum!!

    Hence, even you would be a lot, lot better off with a PUBLIC SUPER FUND.
    Hasbeen
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:01am
    Just another example of the left not being able to see a pile of other peoples money, without immediately wanting to spend it for their own interest.

    Maggie was right, socialism works well, until they run out of other peoples money to spend.

    KRudd & Gillard wasted all our money, & more for 10 years beyond their tenure, & now shorten wants the last bit he can see.

    Time to go jump in the lake Bill.
    Toddy
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:39am
    Agreed
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    12:58am
    Hasbeen & Toddy

    Oh for goodness sake.... this whole Americanised PRIVATE super fund system is based on STEALING money from the average Australian WORKER and putting it in WEALTHY PRIVATE POCKETS!

    IF, all superfunds were Govt (untouchable by politicians - we don't want another Menzies stealing the peoples 'future fund' do we), then everyones super would be higher (no rip off fees) and SAFE and with regular increments that don't depend on private markets and available when you retire irrespective of the state of private markets.

    It is a win/win for the people because their super funds would be used to INVEST in AUSTRALIA (restricted and specific infrastructure) .... all good for Australia, our kids and our grandkids.

    Your age old propaganda of the left spending other peoples money is mere rhetoric..... the Americanised super system we have right now is STEALING peoples SUPER and putting MASSIVE WEALTH in the POCKETS of THOSE greedy parasitical leashholders of mega corps and the big end of town.

    Australia has been unique because it combined the concept.... yeah, make as much as you like BUT you need to put some back in the kitty for Australia and its upkeep. Hence, we were one of the most EGALITARIAN nation in the world. What YOU seem to be suggesting and what this mob of misfits and clowns currently corruptly mismanaging Australia are saying is ....... GIVE AUSTRALIA AND ALL ITS WEALTH TO THE WEALTHY AND THEIR MEGACORPS (especially foreign) and MAKE AUSTRALIA, JUST LIKE THE USA CURRENTLY IS.... A damn frigging economic mess, ghost cities for goodness sake, over 80 million unemployed, poverty growing exponentially, slums expanding, violent crime over the top, and drugs out of control.
    Bonny
    24th Nov 2016
    8:42am
    Why let them? Take control of your super as it is your money. Most people just could not be bothered.
    Anonymous
    24th Nov 2016
    11:25pm
    Bonny

    Are you saying that PRIVATE SUPER FUNDS don't control your super? You can't get it out and you can only transfer it to another PRIVATE SUPER FUND that does the same thing as the fund you were already in??

    That's okay IF YOU prefer to "FEED" your money to the wealthy elite who gladly pocket it. It doesn't do much for Australia and it doesn't do much for your retirement nest egg BUT hey.... go for it!

    I think that MOST Australians know the benefit of a PUBLIC SUPER FUND that doesn't charge FEES, INVESTS in Australian INFRASTRUCTURE and other restricted but GOOD Australian investments AND is SAFE, GUARANTEED minimum level of increments, GUARANTEED payout on retirement irrespective of MARKET CONDITIONS.

    Win/win for hard working Australians, who will find that they have dignity and sufficient to live on when they retire... rather than the disgusting current situation whereby most of their money is 'pocketed' by the wealth mega corps and their leashholders and the retirees are left suffering financial difficulties.

    Mind you the Mainstream CORPORATE Media will just tell us all that it is THEIR fault for not working hard enough!.... of course.
    Rae
    25th Nov 2016
    8:15am
    Bonny the median wage is now only $42000. That means 50% earn less than $42000 a year.

    Those workers will only save around $2500 a year with the 9% and 15% tax.

    No way can they have a SMSF.

    Tax minimisation is really good for high income earners.

    The bottom 60% today would be better off with the money every fortnight to cover the rising costs of all essentials.
    Rosscoe
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:37am
    Good on you, Bill! See the latest efforts of this LNP Federal Government to give their banking mates extra profits
    http://thenewdaily.com.au/money/superannuation/2016/11/22/one-third-rule/
    Toddy
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:37am
    Bill Shorten will not be happy until everyone is back on full government pension! If you have worked hard and saved for your retirement,he wants to penalize you! Since when has MY money become HIS or anyone elses? Why should he want to call the shots on how to invest my money? The Labour government does not have a good track record of building investments....so heaven forbid!
    OlderandWiser
    23rd Nov 2016
    4:26pm
    I agree, Toddy, but I would point out that the LNP was responsible for creating a situation that forces over 500,000 retirees (and millions of future retirees) to reduce their assets and increase their dependence on a government pension.

    Neither side is competent. Neither side has a clue about economic management.

    They are all overpaid fools!
    Oars
    23rd Nov 2016
    9:14pm
    Rainey you are spot on about "overpaid fools" so what or who else is game to step up and take over this sinking ship. The fat cats are too busy getting fatter ( sorry Puppy from up North) and so are the fat doigs. The bright boys are totally sick of the "negatives" in Oz who just moan and get in the way of progress. We need a trump type person who can purse his/her lips like a tadpole, but drive the market up in one week, and get this nation WORKING again -not BLUDGING. Did I say Trump ???
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:25pm
    Wrong Rainey it will not make any difference to people's assets in the future. Rules have been changed and old ones will soon be forgotten and everyone will just work with the new rules. The only thing that will increase their dependence on the government welfare is bone laziness and a welfare mentality. It's time for people to get off their posteriors and stop whinging and actually contribute to our once great country again.

    They are certainly not fools and very underpaid compared to their peers in private enterprise.

    As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on Trump. Lots of hot air in it all at present.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    12:26am
    Toddy
    Tommy Rot, my friend..... what are you stating..... there will be NO DIFFERENT to what you do now with your SUPER FUND, except you will be:

    - little or NO fees
    - guaranteed minimum increments
    - guaranteed payout, irrespective of market conditions
    - it is SAFE from rip off schemes and big boy malpractices

    It is NOT welfare as Bonny suggested it is just shifting your SUPER Funds from a RIP OFF system that fills the pockets of the wealthy with YOUR money to a PUBLIC fund which invests in Australia and therefore helps prosperity in Australia.

    Many of the big boys that are at the 'back' of most of the private super funds are foreign and take OUR money & wealth overseas (or offshore).

    Rainey

    Sorry, Mate.... but to say that both major parties are the same is simply NOT TRUE.

    The current LNP are UTTER RUBBISH and have promoted greedy, substandard, incompetent, corrupt extremists to the top echelons of their parties. They are screwing Australia big time ..... whereas the previous Labor Party DID NOT.

    In fact the previous Labor Party, in the height of the GFC, did the following things:

    - put Australia's economy at the very TOP of the WORLD beating China, USA, EU, Russia & UK... as judged INTERNATIONALLY
    - Australia ticked ALL the 'good' boxes in that international assessment which had never been done before by any other country
    - Australia attained a triple AAA credit rating for the first time EVER
    - Australia's currency was included in the international mix of currencies for the first time EVER
    - Australia was one of the most EGALITARIAN nations in the world
    - Labor's NBN system was declared a "world wonder" because it was ONE of the BEST NBN systems in the World and it was going to EVERY premises in Australia... all for a very low $47 costed and audited (compare that to the utter rubbish that the LNP are making a dogs breakfast of .... at TRIPLE the COST (not to mention that Australia is now a laughing stock internationally in relation to our NBN catastrophe).

    NO WE WERE NOT TOLD ABOUT THIS... Australians were the only people in the world who didn't know how well Labor did for them... the Mainstream CORPORATE Media didn't think it would help THEIR PARTY (LIBS), if Australians knew that the peoples party was doing such a good job.

    The only thing the Mainstream CORPORATE Media could attack was the govt debt growth which was used specifically to bolster the economy and just before the Libs got back in was down to a mere 1.2% from 4.5% (in real terms) and still decreasing.

    That is why I reluctantly admired RUDD, whatever he was he was good for Australia and Australians and worked bloody hard, in really, really hard times.

    Have you notices that we never hear a thing about the TRIPLING of the govt debt with NO RETURN on the SPENDING done by this LIBERAL PARTY.... they don't spend on INFRASTRUCTURE OR AUSTRALIA'S FUTURE, they SPEND, SPEND, SPEND our taxpayers money on handing over big govt contracts or freebies to giant mega corps, mostly foreign. Not only takes OUR wealth but takes it OUT of the ECONOMY, so that Australia flounders. Hell, since 2013, the world was in much better nick, but this mob of LNP clowns and misfits, just SPEND, SPEND, SPEND with NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.

    SO, I contend that BOTH PARTIES are definitely NOT the same!

    The current LNP are utter rubbish and the pits and this Labor Party have yet to prove themselves, except they have a good start in that many of them are from RUDD'S team!
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:42am
    They certainly can't keep their eyes off that big super pot of gold.

    Bill let's start with the future fund. Only allow it to be invested in Australia and Australian assets.
    Crimmo
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:43am
    Politicians taking a visionary approach. Shorten is dreaming.
    Rosscoe
    23rd Nov 2016
    12:03pm
    Let's do something with that useless money. Bill's on the right track. Am I talking to Trump supporters?
    Toddy
    23rd Nov 2016
    3:49pm
    IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY! Probably,that is why you call it useless. Why not give all your useless investments to Bill to give him a start?
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2016
    3:52pm
    My super does very nicely thanks very much.
    Retired Knowall
    24th Nov 2016
    9:19am
    All monies in Super Funds are invested in one way or another, some good, some not so good.. If Govt wants Super Funds to invest in Aust. Infrastructure, then it should sweeten the pot and discount taxes paid by these funds to make it attractive to do so. Much better than borrowing monies and paying interest.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    12:41am
    Retired Knowall..... yes, as well.

    Do you know that IF we had not allowed the USA and others to interfere in Australia's political system, Whitlam would have turned Australia into nearly a NON-TAX country!

    Whitlam was proposing to BUY 49% shares in all foreign corporations based in Australia (yes, that is why he didn't go to the USA for loan funds but to the Arabs.... most of those foreign corps where USA megacorps).

    Today, Australia would earn huge dividends and also have a seat on the boards of these megacorps, so our govt would know what they are up to. There would not be any need to tax Australians much at all and we would have enough to give dignity to everyone ... no poverty or lack of housing... brilliant... if only, aye!

    These days, we taxpayers pay for foreign megacorps to steal our resources by subsidising their water and power and contributing billions to their infrastructure requirements, for which we receive PIDDLING AMOUNTS of ROYALTIES... and then to add insult to injury, WE the TAXPAYERS have to CLEAN UP THEIR BLOODY ENVIRONMENTAL DESTRUCTION if we can!!!

    Not to mention, that they TAKE OUR WEALTH overseas/offshore, instead of boosting our economy with that wealth AND do NOT PAY TAXES.

    One recent example was that Australia receives ZILCH for our GAS for 20 twenty frigging years.... in comparison Qatar or Yemen (not sure which from memory) earn double figure BILLIONs straight up on THEIR gas fields.

    These mongrels don't even employ many Australians anymore, it is mostly computerised and even the big trucks are automated, the rest of the people are mostly 457visa holders these days... just as easy to fly in fly out Indonesians, as Australians and the cost a lot, lot less for the big boys but again the money is sent home and a lot of it doesn't get spent in Australia... so much for our economy.
    don
    23rd Nov 2016
    12:30pm
    Funny when there is a large amount of money around they want to get their greedy hands on it. Would their super be exempt from their fanciful ideas? We need new parties, get rid of the retreads.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    12:51am
    don

    Not funny really..... the greedy mongrel wealthy elites who are leashholders for foreign and national megacorps.... have already got THEIR hands on YOUR WEALTH and they screw the living daylights out of the whole lot....

    These parasites on society are squeezing every bit of your superfunds for everything they can get..... you can thank your lucky stars that the industry super funds stepped in because the GREEDY MONGRELS had to pull their heads in.

    That is why the GREEDY MONGRELS are getting the LNP to get rid of the industry superfunds.... so that they can return to huge fees (many hidden) AND their OLD DIRTY investment PRACTICES which transfers more and more of YOUR money, into THEIR pockets.

    Give me a government SAFE, NO FEES, GUARANTEED increments, GUARANTEED payout of my super, with investments in Australia infrastructure and innovation..... NOT big boys bulldust big fees, no guarantees on increments or payouts, with investments in projects that just help them reap more of OUR WEALTH....

    Stuff FEEDING these mongrels with OUR hard earned money!
    KSS
    23rd Nov 2016
    1:14pm
    Umm it is NOT AUSTRALIA's money. It belongs to individual people and not all of them are Australian either.
    Retired Knowall
    24th Nov 2016
    9:20am
    If it was financially attractive to invest in Australian Infrastructure....Why Not?
    Lescol
    23rd Nov 2016
    2:24pm
    I believe in the concept but he will need to offer more than this 'thought bubble'.

    Also I would suggest this was previously tried and sadly found wanting! I believe due to a lack of imagination and commitment by vested interest groups and was folded in 1950.

    Why would it be any different now? Is the proposal to Nationalise supa or just to provide some rules? Legal protection will be needed as we are talking long term planning.

    cheers
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    12:57am
    Lescol

    Are you talking about the Aust. FUTURE FUND that Menzies folded and STOLE all the money from, with nothing now to show for it!

    It would be a HUGE difference to Australia and its prosperity.

    Essentially, the money the big boys screw from OUR super would go back into OUR pockets AND into Australian infrastructure AND Australian economy AND would then create more jobs, etc.

    It would get stolen from us and go directly into PRIVATE POCKETS, get taken overseas/offshore, get invested in projects that make the big boys money but do nothing for Australia, etc, etc.

    It would be a win/win for hard working Australians AND Australia.


    ANOTHER point is that all these super funds being held in PRIVATE concerns, give POWER to these concerns OVER OUR GOVT, when it is OUR funds AND that POWER should be OURS.... not greedy thieving parasite mega corps and their leashholders.
    fish head
    23rd Nov 2016
    3:06pm
    I notice politicians are very good at telling people the way to manage their finances but not so crash hot at managing the country's.
    MICK
    23rd Nov 2016
    3:29pm
    Instead of talking crap Shorten needs to address the way super has been rorted for decades and why it was never stopped. Then he can move on to how to best put the money to work for the benefit of the nation, which does not include handing it over to any government to squander like they do with all other taxpayer money.
    Both sides of politics want to get their greedy hands on the nation's super. They never should as it will evaporate should they manage it.
    Rosscoe
    23rd Nov 2016
    4:34pm
    Yeah, Mick, the Labor Party tried to change the LNP's mind on what they were doing, but, once again, they looked after their mates. Even now, the LNP won't countenance a change to negative gearing. Better to keep having a go at seniors and the less well-heeled.
    OlderandWiser
    23rd Nov 2016
    4:31pm
    Good idea. How about we create a fund that pays decent returns and is secure and fully guaranteed, has low management fees, and is accessible to all the struggling retirees whose lifestyles have been decimated first by falling investment returns and then by an ill-conceived assets test that discourages saving. If the fund paid, say, 8% on a steady, secure and guaranteed basis, I'm sure hundreds of thousands would happily put their money into it, and then all that infrastructure could be built for the future and the hideous damage caused by the changed assets test and the huge future cost that idiotic policy change promises would be averted. Win for all!
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2016
    6:35pm
    No I wouldn't put my money into it. It's not a win for me at all.

    With interest rates at their current level the government would be stupid to do it when it can borrow money heaps cheaper elsewhere.

    Anyone effected by the change in assets test should not have been getting the OAP in the first place. The levels were set way too high and now we have a bit of common sense from the government by changing them.

    Also the pension rebates and benefits should only be available to those on the full pension. Millionaires on benefits is simply stupid.

    If the new asset test is a problem to you Rainey then I suggest you go on a world cruise or whatever it takes for you to qualify for welfare. The mere thought of dealing with Centrelink is enough for me to keep off welfare.
    Captain
    23rd Nov 2016
    8:12pm
    Is this particular debate about who should or should receive an Aged Pension or about infrastructure investments?
    Captain
    23rd Nov 2016
    8:14pm
    Dan auto cotter, it should read:

    "Who should or should not receive an Aged Pension".
    Captain
    23rd Nov 2016
    8:15pm
    How do you turn off auto correct!!!
    OlderandWiser
    24th Nov 2016
    10:22am
    It's about Old Geezer continuing his selfish rant, and having no consideration for people in different circumstances to him (because he's too self-obsessed to acknowledge that anyone CAN be in different circumstances through no fault of their own!)

    I was trying to be constructive. Nothing to do with anyone's PERSONAL situation (and he guesses mine all wrong!) I'm concerned with the well-being of the nation. If there were a sensible investment opportunity that were secure, guaranteed, and paid a rate that made it appealing for people to stay off the pension (which currently yields them 7.8%+, as opposed to the miserable 3% many are getting now), there would be a strong incentive to save the government money. And the savings, plus the invested capital, could fund infrastructure needed for the future. Everyone would win. (And nobody would be FORCED to do anything - unlike now, where people are FORCED to spend money they can't afford or give it away to people who need it less!)

    As it is, as OG points out, the strong incentive is to spend up big and put your hand out for a pension. That's NOT good for the country.
    OlderandWiser
    24th Nov 2016
    10:24am
    OG, nobody suggested YOU should do anything. I was suggesting a solution for others. Unlike you, I don't presume to dictate to people whose circumstances I know nothing about and support unfair and destructive policies that cause them hurt. Your selfishness is unbelievable!
    Old Geezer
    24th Nov 2016
    3:05pm
    There are many people that think like me now Rainey so yes it is important what I would do.

    It great to see that the asset changes are still coming in January 2017. This will save the government lots of money now and in the future. It's a pity that didn't go further with them and have everyone pay back their pension out of their assets when they die and also add the house into the mix.
    OlderandWiser
    26th Nov 2016
    3:24pm
    Wouldn't you just love that, OG? Welfare ONLY for the rich and privileged. Massive tax concessions and rorts and handout for the well-to-do and the poor ground into hardship and never allowed to retain a cent of their earnings. Yes, that would suit greedy, selfish fools like you - until the poor revolt and start defending their rights. You IDIOT! Do you seriously think the battlers of this nation are stupid enough to bust their guts for greedy, self-serving, born-rich arseholes who take all and give nothing?
    OlderandWiser
    26th Nov 2016
    3:39pm
    And yes, OG, I guess there are a lot of people who share your warped and selfish views. That's what's wrong with the world. Too many rich and privileged arseholes who have an ENTITLEMENT complex and want to stamp on battlers and grind them into the dirt while taking all. Wait for the revolution. It's coming - unless there is a major change in attitude soon.

    Unfortunately, your selfishness has killed your brain cells and you can't think beyond ME ME ME GIVE ME and TAKE FROM HIM TO GIVE ME MORE. It's a common problem among the well off. Arrogance and selfishness destroy the capacity to think and reason, so you work on assumptions, anecdotal evidence (I THINK know someone who....), made-up data (to suit your argument), and idiotic baseless claims that happen to suit your selfish cause (and which you reverse immediately when the contra argument suits!)

    It's not pensions that need adjusting. It's excessive salaries and profits at the top end and tax on the well-off. It's time they stopped robbing the country and starting paying their way. Then there would be enough money to structure a fair and sensible pension system that recognizes that battlers are entitled to their share of national wealth too, and since they DON'T get it through tax rorts and PPL and other handouts to the rich, they SHOULD get it through decent pensions on retirement.
    Bill
    23rd Nov 2016
    4:50pm
    Ahhhhh, Electricity Bill is at it again. Now I wonder where him and his mates stuff their money. You can be bloody sure it is safer than houses.
    Bill
    23rd Nov 2016
    4:52pm
    Golly, just look at his profile,. Now THIS IS a man you can TRUST. (LOL as they say in technospeak ...... is that how you spell it??????????)
    Oars
    23rd Nov 2016
    9:07pm
    Bill maaaaate it SOUNDS like you are thinking real business, but do you mean that everyone in Austalia places there money into Government run projects that are payback time for the Union bosses- OR are you genuinly suggesting that all that "cash under the matriss" gets invested with small players in the PRIVATE sector ( where the Unions can't touch). One or both Billy ??
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2016
    11:02pm
    Oars

    You do know that Industry Super Funds are considered as part of the private sector and where initiated by unions. This is why the LNP and Banks & Insurance houses, etc are against this intruder on their turf.

    The banks & Insurance houses, etc were charging extortionist FEES for investment and managing everyones super fund... I know one poor bugger who put in $1000 pm and his fees were $500 pm for this privilege. These monstrous corps where making billions out of ordinary people's super savings UNTIL the Industry Super Funds provided an alternative.

    The thing is, not only were the banks, etc taking extortionist fees they were also investing everyone's super in THEIR own SCHEMES... all very incestuous... it made very little for the workers super fund BUT helped fund bank, etc projects that made lots and lots of money for the banks, etc.

    That is why industry super funds OUTPERFORMED banks, insurance houses, etc for quite awhile and still do because these corp. monstrosities still need "others" super money to fund their money making schemes.




    HOWEVER, no matter how much the Industry Super Funds stopped the banks big RIP OFF and helped the average Australian save MORE in super, it is just NOT ENOUGH because they are still having to operate in the "markets" which are MANIPULATED by these monstrous corporations.

    ALWAYS better to have an untouchable PUBLIC SUPER FUND which has guarantees and no fees and because it is so big, gives power to OUR PUBLIC FUND to invest bigger and better and bring in more funds. The PUBLIC FUND can also invest in Australian Infrastructure and innovation which is Australia's FUTURE.... making the Australian people and Australia way more prosperous.

    Besides the billions going into big boy coffers, Australia's SUPER fund $$$$$$ is currently giving POWER to these monstrous corporations to manipulate out govt.... IF we had a PUBLIC FUND, this power would be stripped from them and OUR country would be back in OUR control and be way, way more democratic and free.
    Old Man
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:02pm
    A quick check of Shorten' s Register of Members' Interests shows that his wife has shares in Westpac and a cash account with Goldman Sachs. If he was serious about greedy banks and a Royal Commission I would think that the shares would be sold and the cash account would be closed. Yes, it's his wife and she's her own person but surely there is a conflict of interest. Because of inferred hypocrisy in his family dealings I wouldn't trust him with anybody's savings, let alone my super.
    Old Man
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:12pm
    If anyone wishes to see politicians' register of interest, click on the link.

    http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Members/Register
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:27pm
    Is it really any of our business where they have their money invested? Me thinks not. It is just being a sticky beak as far as I am concerned.

    Do they ask you where your money is invested? They certainly don't ask me and I don't tell them either. OK they know a little but hey miss at lot at taxation time.
    Old Man
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:33pm
    I think it is our business when politicians want to garner our votes by telling us how they will fix problems that concern us. It's a bit rich for politicians to rabbit on about house prices and investors causing them to be so high when they own investment properties or railing about banks' obscene profits when they have shares in banks.
    Old Geezer
    23rd Nov 2016
    10:52pm
    But most people like them own properties and shares in the banks so it is of no significance.
    Old Man
    23rd Nov 2016
    11:01pm
    But most people like them are not in a position to change the laws. If you recall, Labor wanted to change the laws regarding investment properties but excluded existing investors which applied to a large number of politicians.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    1:39am
    Old Man

    Our PM (Malcolm Turnbull) has an OFFSHORE bank account whereby he doesn't PAY TAXES!!!!!! The ATO is currently looking into all these accounts BUT I bet you nothing is said or done further about Turnbull's misdemeanours in this area.

    Our PM (Malcolm Turnbull) worked for the same vampire corporation (Goldman Sachs) and was helped by them to set up and then flog off (in time) his dot.com 'thing' (wasn't really a business).

    Nearly every Australian has some shares, especially in banks, even if it is just a few and HIS WIFE has a cash account with Goldman Sachs. That is his wife and she is not HIM and he has no right to tell her what to do with her money. However, my lip does sneer somewhat at the thought that she has an account with that vampire corporation!


    In regard to PROPERTIES (investment) and negative gearing etc, I agree with you mainly.. it is disgusting BUT in regard to Shorten not extending it to those with properties right now....

    .... do you have any idea how BIG the Real Estate Industry has become through these tax concessions and huge, huge investments.... combine that with the FACT that our Mainstream CORPORATE Media are mostly bias in their views and support totally, the LNP (particularly the foreigner... Rupert MURDOCH whose family goes back a long way with the Liberal Party... his father advised and helped Menzies form the Liberal Party).

    Shorten would be screwed to the floor if he tried to do anything that was better for the people but took wealth away from the big boys. He had to do it in increments, as he was trying to do... it would at least stop them from selling and buying up to the next level.

    Remember Rudd tried to introduce a tax on the SUPER PROFITS of miners and before the media had finished, most Australians were against the idea when at the beginning they were for it.

    Tax on SUPER PROFITS means that these monstrosities are making billions and billions of money which Australia gets to see very little of, so the concept of slicing a little off the TOP would have been good for Australia. If times got bad then the tax wouldn't apply... that simple.

    However, the mainstream CORPORATE Media (mostly foreign) squealed and screamed that the mining industry and all the jobs and all the companies that relied on the mining industry would collapse.. blah, blah... all lies BUT IT WORKED!! The public turned on Rudd as if he was some sort of disgusting animal for raising this equitable and fair tax for Australia.... the propaganda worked and Rudd was run out of town, so to speak.

    Shorten is very aware of what the mainstream CORPORATE Media can do when their self interests and cronies are affected.... they go straight for the jugular.
    Bonny
    24th Nov 2016
    8:45am
    Too many restrictions on super will make people like me cash the lot in and invest elsewhere. After all super is just a tax miinimisation structure with already enough strings.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    1:02am
    Bonny

    Up to you... but where would elsewhere be?

    Superannuation is ABSOLUTELY NOT a tax minimising structure for MOST Australians... it is a method for hard working Australians to prepare and fund their own retirement, so that after years of working hard, they can enjoy their twilight years and live in dignity and relative ease.

    ONLY the wealthy screw this current PRIVATE system and get out of paying 30% in taxes on their contributions to Super (ie. top tax rate is 45% but contributions to super are taxed at only 15%). Plus there are many other concessions for the WEALTHY through SMSF, etc.
    Rae
    25th Nov 2016
    8:45am
    Mussitate there is no possible way that the bottom 60% of workers can save enough in super to fund a comfortable retirement. It is a pipe dream by the wealthy to get fees, charges, insurance and ensure if a really worn out manual labourer has to retire early at say 60 they won't hit the unemployment queues because they can live on the average $98000 saved over their lifetime.

    Superannuation is a tax minimisation scheme and for it to work you have to be paying tax and able to save around $20 000 a year into the fund and hope they don't lose the lot near retirement because you'll never make it back.

    Superannuation is designed for the wealthy.

    You sound like a smart person. You work it out.

    On the minimum wage over a 40 hour week for 40 years.

    Yes the average wage sounds fantastic but remember it includes the guys earning $18 million or $100 million.

    The median wage is much more realistic and frankly it sucks. It isn't enough to live, pay off a home , raise kids and save for retirement. Even with two people earning it.
    Old Geezer
    25th Nov 2016
    1:14pm
    Stop dreaming of course it merely a tax minimisation structure for all Australians.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    7:40pm
    Rae
    Thank you, THAT is precisely WHY super should go into a PUBLIC super fund.

    No fees, guaranteed minimum increments (no matter the market) and guaranteed minimum payout (no matter the market), with investments being to specified and specific Australian infrastructure and innovation (mainly).

    ALL GOOD for Australians and Australia... both would be more prosperous.

    WAY, WAY BETTER THAN ALL THOSE BILLIONS GOING INTO FOREIGN POCKETS & THE WEALTHY ELITE WHO DON'T PAY TAXES & DON'T INVEST IN AUSTRALIA. EFFECTIVELY, THESE MONGRELS TAKE OUR WEALTH AND PUT IT IN THEIR OWN POCKETS!

    It's time.


    Old Geezer

    You having a bit of fun mate... not ALL Australians make enough money for super to be a tax minimisation scheme... only the wealthy few.
    phantom
    24th Nov 2016
    9:05am
    The government can't spend our money properly now. Imagine throwing another trillion or so at them to blow. It's supposed to be savings for retirement but they are hamstring us to even save for it. Cut the limits for the rich, not the poor working bloke that will need it to survive. Shorten is only a vote grabber with no policy and only talk.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    1:14am
    phantom

    I agree, this lot of misfits and clowns are doing a disgusting job BUT these idiots wouldn't be able to TOUCH our PUBLIC super fund money.

    Hell no! Proper and independent govt bodies would be set up to invest and manage the funds and instead of PRIVATE projects that only make the big boys more money, they would invest in Australian infrastructure and make money for our PUBLIC funds and be for Australia's benefit.... more money circulating in the economy, more jobs, more prosperity.... ALL GOOD!

    The big boys just take the profits overseas/offshore, don't employ many (unless 457 visa holders), don't pay taxes... so effectively they wouldn't help Australia or the economy. Only good for their pockets, their power and influence on OUR govt to screw even more money out of Australia!!!
    PIXAPD
    24th Nov 2016
    11:30am
    SHORTEN like other pollies, are set for pensions far exceeding other Australians, take poor old Derryn Hinch for example now a Senator and now set up, no wonder he is smiling. They don't care about anyone else so long as they are set.
    Anonymous
    25th Nov 2016
    1:05am
    PIXAPD

    I understand what you are saying BUT in this instance what Shorten is putting forward WOULD be a method of providing MORE for the average hard working Australian.

    So in this instance, we do have a pollie that cares - in this area at least!


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