ALP announces plan to help older Aussies get back to work

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten launches job creation plan, aimed at helping over-55s.

ALP announces over-55s jobs plan

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten used the ALP campaign launch in Brisbane to announce a new job creation plan aimed at getting over-55s back into the workforce.

The ALP pledged that if elected it would provide tax cuts to any business with an annual turnover of less that $10 million that employs someone younger than 25 or older than 55.

“Too many mature Australians are too young to retire, but unable to find work – around 86,000 Australians aged over 55 are looking for work,” Mr Shorten said.

"We believe that young or old, city or bush, every Australian, regardless of their age, regardless of their postcode, has the right to the dignity of work."

Companies with turnover of less than $10 million that have been operating for more than two years will be eligible for an additional 30 per cent tax deduction for up to five new workers’ salaries for their first year of employment, capped at $50,000 per company.

To be eligible for the additional deduction, new employees need to have been unemployed for three months or more as well as meeting the age requirements.

Case study
Rob is 56 and worked at a car manufacturing company for 20 years. He was made redundant two years ago, but despite his technical expertise and significant experience, he hasn’t been able to find work since. 

Michael runs an automotive spare parts company and is looking for someone to add to his 10-person full-time workforce, to be paid a gross salary of $60,000. When Michael employs Rob, he will be able to deduct $78,000 from his business revenue, reducing his business’s taxable income by an additional $18,000.

Michael also takes on Alison, who has been searching for work for four months after caring for her elderly mother for the last four years, to work part-time. When he pays Alison $26,000 a year – including penalty rates – he will be able to deduct $33,800, reducing his business’s taxable income by an additional $7800.

Taken together, when Michael does his tax, he gets an additional tax deduction of $25,800 for hiring Rob and Alison.

What do you think of Labor’s job creation plan? Will it work? Are you over 55 and unemployed? Will this policy change your vote?

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    COMMENTS

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    MICK
    7th May 2019
    9:58am
    Ha ha ha. What a joke.
    First is THERE ARE NO JOBS! I repeat THERE ARE NO JOBS!
    Second is employers will pick under 25s not over 55s.
    I hate it when politician talk about 'jobs' without actually creating something which produces new jobs.
    Polly Esther
    7th May 2019
    10:45am
    MICK - I thought you knew, Billy Shorten has a magic wand. No, I'm kidding. You are catching on though, congratulations :-))
    Spitfire
    7th May 2019
    11:05am
    You will all need a job if Shorten's shonkies are elected and they have stripped you all of the few pension perks you currently have.
    jackie
    7th May 2019
    12:17pm
    MICK...I am sure welfare for employers will be a good incentive to give the older worker a bit of a go. The rich love free money.
    Blinky
    7th May 2019
    1:02pm
    Yes, this is Shorten, throwing money away like it was coming from his magic wand, but he is always dodging questions about how much his promises will cost!
    We all know it's easy to make promises but they cost money, and money does not grow on trees!!!
    KSS
    7th May 2019
    1:29pm
    Is Mr Shorten not promising to plant money trees Blinky as part of his climate change policy?

    Darn it! I was going to put my hand up for one of those too. :-(
    Cowboy Jim
    7th May 2019
    2:04pm
    Politicians could employ us as ass wipers and boot cleaners. No provate industry will look at us any more.
    Kealley McGregor
    7th May 2019
    2:06pm
    Sorry, but when you say there are no jobs, you could be wrong! When I was in business I desperately needed to employ someone but just couldn't afford to do so, the business was growing but the increased income would be negated by the cost of employing a new worker and the extra tax bill on top of that. Turned out the transition from growing family business to larger company would cost more than could cope with at the time. Ended up working 7 days a week, 18 hours a day, broken marriage, stress, sickness.. end of business. People couldn't understand it, said we were doing so well. I think his plan is a damn good one!
    And yes I tried a younger person, because it was cheaper, Hard to train with no experience, and too busy to do it well, so ended up spending more time fixing errors which put me behind.. Yes I would have gladly employed an over 55
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    3:31pm
    Good to see some of our regular government trolls at it again.

    Keally - I respectfully have to disagree with you. Older Australians have been locked out of the job market. Younger models earn much less, do not get tired and do not ask questions when the boss asks them do do something which defies logic.
    The issue you describe about cost of labour is a familiar lament from business in this country. The fact is that workers need to be paid properly because, like you, they need to earn enough to pay their bills. Business just does not get that.
    If your business failed then likely it was not a viable business or others in the same field were more efficient and/or cheaper. Its a tough game. Been there done that.
    Hope you ended up ok.
    Anonymous
    8th May 2019
    5:20pm
    it wont work...they will not take on older workers in the main at all!
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    10:03am
    Good to see one of the parties put a policy addressing this issue out there to stimulate discussion. If ALP win on May 18 and moves forward with this policy then it remains to be seen whether it offers enough incentive to overcome pre-retiree disadvantage.
    Blinky
    7th May 2019
    1:06pm
    Farside, if u believe in Shortens promises u also probably still believe in Santa Claus?
    Companies hire people who have the skills they require, not to have a small reduction in their tax!
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    3:34pm
    You are such a blatant troll Blinky. Say something with substance rather than throw mud.
    You are incorrect in your statement. Companies try to lower their wages bill and this does impact on the company itself. This is evidenced by management being turfed out for younger people (cheaper), Call Centre staff all young (cheaper), shop assistants mostly young (cheaper). When did you see an over 55 serving at McDonalds? Thought so.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    6:08pm
    so Blinky, you would rather keep your head in the sand and pretend the issue is not there? Discussion cannot take place without acknowledging the issue. I'm not sure what your business experience is but nobody suggested they hire to achieve a tax reduction, that was the incentive by reducing the costs of employing an over-55.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:29pm
    But, but, but... but where's Robbo to tell us that all those who even need a job at that age are shiftless bludgers who've never contributed?
    geordie
    7th May 2019
    10:04am
    How about a work plan for the bludgers and learners. What about all the parasites that are pulling in allowances from everywhere doing sweet nothing. It's the retirees that have been paying taxes all their life and are now required to pay taxes after retirement so that these slugs can buy their cigs and drink....oh and a bit of KFC when nessessary.
    Paddington
    7th May 2019
    11:57am
    Bludgers and learners? I guess you mean leaners?!
    See my comment below.
    Judgmental much?!
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    3:37pm
    You may want to be careful about calling all who do not work 'bludgers' geordie. The facts which this rotten government never owns up to is that THERE ARE NO JOBS to go to, so the bludgers (yes there are some) cannot get a job even f=if they wanted one.

    Certainly the system is rotten and the rich do NOT need a tax cut of any sort. If anything their tax rate should be going up because they can easily afford to absorb more tax. Workers cannot.
    Anne
    7th May 2019
    4:14pm
    I paid about $700 a week in tax for more than 30 years when I was working. I am 58 now and I am a bit upset that people would call me a bludger if I went onto Newstart. I have some superannuation, of course, but I am very, very far from rich. Most of my income went to my children's education. I had no hope of buying a home as a single parent of three. I have always tried to contribute, and still do when I can via volunteer and election work, but I am realistic. If I cannot generate a freelance income, I will have no choice but to ask for welfare next year.
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    4:41pm
    Everyone pays tax Geordie, it is called GST!

    Yes Anne there are many like you and they are still called welfare cheats, bludgers, lazy, parasites etc. Not fair to put everyone in the same basket when in reality there are only a small percentage of "lazy bludgers", and most of these people also have their reasons why. We need to help welfare recipients not put them down.
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    5:05pm
    Anne Wow $700 a week in tax for 30 years.You should have been set for life on the money you were making.High standard of living perhaps.Maybe if you don't have any luck earning a freelance income you might consider working as an employee..like most others.
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    5:05pm
    Anne Wow $700 a week in tax for 30 years.You should have been set for life on the money you were making.High standard of living perhaps.Maybe if you don't have any luck earning a freelance income you might consider working as an employee..like most others.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:07pm
    Anne, clowns like Geordie and Circum know little better and are unlikely intentionally rude. Wouldn't it be nice if unemployed 55s could draw down on past taxes paid by averaging incomes to include the low income years but that is wishful thinking. Good luck with the freelance income.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    8:37pm
    Anne - $700 tax a week? That's $35,000 a year. Sounds like you had a good job so why could you not have paid off a home? Many earned much less and now have a home and a rental property.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    11:17pm
    Mick, being a bit judgemental there aren't you? You don't know Anne's circumstances and her journey to being 58 and single mother of three. Life can be full of surprises that come along just when you least expect them.

    I know a few people who have had good incomes and then found themselves without a house through no fault of their own. One was a family doing well living in one of Melbourne's seven figure suburbs, but house was security to fund expansion of a software business driven by founder who died from cancer unexpectedly ... two kids in private schools, lost the house, lost the business, no insurance, margin loans to settle and so it goes. Another lost his business after discovering his partner embezzled cash and pilfered stock leaving him to sell his house to pay guarantor obligations. Another lost his life savings and farm in a fire ... no insurance, divorced in aftermath, had a heart attack and could not rebuild, assets sold to pay off equipment debts and loans leaving him broke. Another lost his bundle in the GFC despite owning several properties. No doubt there are many more out there with stories of having suddenly lost everything they thought was secure.
    jennyc355
    7th May 2019
    10:15am
    All of the examples show a person who has a recent work history or skills, doubtful it will help those over 60 who have been out of workforce for 3 decades or more like myself .I now at the age of 61 find myself applying for newstart and competing with others in same age group who have a recent work history.
    jackie
    7th May 2019
    12:24pm
    jennyc355... That's why it pays to never be out of the workforce for long. It's a known fact the longer unemployed the harder it is to get work. Skills need to be continually up to date in an ever-changing world an overpopulating world that is desperate for work. Good luck
    KSS
    7th May 2019
    1:33pm
    What you need to do jenny355 is get creative with your CV and demonstrate the skills you have amassed. You don't say what you were doing for 30 years but unless you were in a coma, you must have been doing something. You need to sit with a professional CV collator to go through the things you can do and present the information in its best light. This is very similar to what a school leaver needs to do when they have no qualifications or experience.
    Ask to be referred to one of the 'specialists' at your job search agency.
    Alan
    7th May 2019
    10:50am
    Very vague - how long does a company have to employ an older worker to get the tax break? Are there real jobs? I would not have thought so and maybe would just shift available work to younger or older employees. It does not seem to be a solutin to the overall problem.
    jackie
    7th May 2019
    12:26pm
    Alan....At least Labor is acknowledging the problem unlike Liberals dole bludger abuse.
    KSS
    7th May 2019
    12:33pm
    Well this is just typical of Mr Shorten, long on promises and short on detail! I bet there are no costings either.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    3:42pm
    Correct Alan. Employers will milk the handouts for all they are worth and the current government has set this up for them.

    KSS - please be factual. Morrison has not costed his climate policy and some of his claims against Shorten are blatant lies. The media seems never to call him out on those.
    I had to laugh last night as Morrison claimed his government more than doubled the national debt because Labor had created it. Lies. Labor never gave money to lawyers to run Royla Commissions against its opponents nor did it give the greedy top end of town tax cuts at a time when we had debt. Don't get me going.
    inextratime
    7th May 2019
    11:02am
    Here's a suggestion. We all know that our recycling goes straight to land fill because its too expensive to sort and is so contaminated that even the Chinese do not want to handle it. Send it to recycling centres and let pensioners sit at the conveyor belts and sort it. Pay them a non taxable rate of $20 an hour and don't penalise their pensions. Result. Recycling gets done and pensioners earn a bit more. Everyone happy (except the unions).
    jackie
    7th May 2019
    12:29pm
    inextratime....This is brilliant include the other people that can't find work. The Government could set the business up and maybe Australia can create a recycling industry for the globe.
    Arvo
    7th May 2019
    1:23pm
    Now this is one brilliant solution. Well done inextratime. Pity, it will fall on deaf ears and whingers will come out the woodwork like it's too far to travel to the recycle center , no public transport to get there etc,etc,etc.
    sunnyOz
    7th May 2019
    2:36pm
    You have hit the nail on the head - 'a non taxable rate of $20 an hour, and don't penalise their pensions'. That is often the biggest disincentive to work as a senior - the penalties are just too high. We are effectively punished to go and do some work.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    3:43pm
    What pension? Nice idea though. Any takers?
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    4:45pm
    Might be a good idea but we need to help industries that are already trying to get off the ground to use the recycled materials, there is no Government support for them. It is a matter of urgency and no pollie that is running has spoken about this problem (well not that I am aware of).
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:20pm
    A conversation on the radio with someone manufacturing outdoor furniture from recycled plastics said they were kicking goals with sales to local government bodies. It seems they can step up production of furniture but selling to consumers is a challenge.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:26pm
    Good idea from Inextratime; even better if this was funded by a levy on manufacturers and importers to cover the cost of recycling their products. This is the sort of thinking required to create new jobs. As Mick frequently points out there are more unemployed and underemployed than there are available jobs.
    inextratime
    7th May 2019
    11:02am
    Here's a suggestion. We all know that our recycling goes straight to land fill because its too expensive to sort and is so contaminated that even the Chinese do not want to handle it. Send it to recycling centres and let pensioners sit at the conveyor belts and sort it. Pay them a non taxable rate of $20 an hour and don't penalise their pensions. Result. Recycling gets done and pensioners earn a bit more. Everyone happy (except the unions).
    Spitfire
    7th May 2019
    11:13am
    What's this shoveling sh1t while still alive, don't you know that comes with the next scenario.
    At the Pearly Gates before the Heaven or Hell selection board.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:32pm
    Nah - we had the answers last week - put 'em on the roads to the ski resorts with shovels, bus 'em back to their tent and bowl of soup, then up at 5 am for the same ... or the road of bones....
    Big bad Col
    7th May 2019
    11:26am
    Bill believes that 86,000 over 55 are looking for work. Just because those 86,000 are registered for Newstart doesn't necessarily mean they WANT to work. It is pretty well accepted that many over 55's receiving Newstart have made a deliberate choice to early retire. Having said this, I know there are many who still want to find work and if Bill's plan helps them, that's got to be a good thing.
    Paddington
    7th May 2019
    11:53am
    The lady last night is 61 and told her story via Skype. Her story was sad. She can’t find work and she is in financial stress. She has had to borrow money from family to keep going as the income of $500 plus does not cover everything. If she has any super that will be the next thing she has to use to continue with a roof over her head and to cover every day needs. It is also an example of how some people through no fault of their own are not wealthy on retirement and then will face judgment from the wealthy independents who make disparaging remarks about pensioners. She has a long way to go before she is even eligible for the pension.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:30pm
    Col, swings and roundabouts ... there are plenty of over 55s precluded from registering for Newstart (usually fail asset means test) that do not wish to be in early retirement to offset those on Newstart who have "retired".
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:34pm
    Yes - everyone would love a chance to early retire on $250 a week....

    Where are the trolls to start on their having to wind down all assets before getting anything in retirement.... been over that one... bring it on...
    Paddington
    7th May 2019
    11:38am
    Wow, last night’s QandA showed a very impressive Bill Shorten to the electorate. He was confidant, open, reachable and actually amazing! People saw a possible PM that they needed to see. He won the audience who were mixed in age and political ideology.
    As usual, the youth was also impressive. He addressed all the touchy topics like franking credits and negative hearing. I suspect he won over quite a lot of liberal type voters and those still unsure.
    I know some people on here will pounce on my comments. But, that is okay, they probably never watched it or are far right and prejudiced. I did not expect what I saw last night and I guess a lot of other people were the same.
    Well donee, Bill!
    Paddington
    7th May 2019
    11:44am
    Ha ha a few typos in there. Negative gearing for one and Well done, Bill for the second.
    jackie
    7th May 2019
    12:31pm
    Paddington...I agree Shorten was good. Australia needs a Government with a moral compass as New Zealand has.
    Sundays
    7th May 2019
    12:32pm
    I watched it Paddington and I was also impressed with his humanity. Nice change to hear a politician saying what they will do as opposed to just bagging the their side
    Sundays
    7th May 2019
    12:41pm
    Sorry, bagging the other side.
    Ny19
    7th May 2019
    2:07pm
    Agree, Bill Shorten was very impressive on Q&A last night. He won my vote for Labor. Before that I was going to vote Green because of Adani but after his performance I felt he is the Leader Australia needs. My hubby has never liked him but also changed his mind last night. In contrast, Scott Morrison’s manic, aggressive performance on 7.30 Report was woeful. Shorten is a true leader whereas Morrison comes across as fake.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    3:47pm
    I tuned out for the night after Leigh Sales tried to interview Scott Morrison. Never seen such a soulless pig before. The man is a national disgrace and should not get one vote after that stunt. I'm sure Sales was pondering if her lowly salary is worth that sort of behaviour.
    Big bad Col
    7th May 2019
    4:35pm
    Bill first impressed me 13 years ago with his strong leadership and support on the scene at the Beaconsfield Mining disaster. I believe this event has proved to be a big contributor towards Bill becoming our next PM.
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    4:50pm
    I recorded it so looking forward to watching tonight. I did see Scomo on 7.30 and could not believe his attitude to Leigh she could not get a word in with his fast and aggressive dribble of lies. So arrogant. Not a good leader and what he said about the leadership spill all now fixed by his change of law, how convenient of him to change it after he over took Turnbull.
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    5:28pm
    Would have helped if Shorten answered the questions,Like Morrison Shorten good conman material
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    5:28pm
    Would have helped if Shorten answered the questions,Like Morrison Shorten good conman material
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:33pm
    Circum, which questions do you feel were not answered?
    Paddington
    8th May 2019
    12:51am
    Circum, he did answer the questions. You are showing bias.
    Even some non labor people in the audience were impressed and surprised how good he was.
    Ted Wards
    7th May 2019
    11:52am
    What I think we need to realise is that when someone has expertise, as in your case study, instead of looking for work they should be assisted to retrain as a trainer, or a curriculum developer. The mistake we make is not thinking outside of the box. There should be a way to capture all that experience and knowledge, assist the industry, keep the knowledge and assist the person to make an active and worthwhile contribution.

    I know the government does offer retraining subsidies but perhaps the issue is the people that are employed in this area to assist people find employment. There seems to be little awareness that skills can be transferred into any area and they tend to only look at the one area.

    For instance, if someone has been a senior manager in an office, the set of skills and the range of experience they have can be applied into any industry. Most industry specific knowledge is gained on the job. They can be retrained to work in aged care or disability where they are always looking for people. Age is not a barrier in either industry, depending on the role.
    We are also trained to believe that once we are in one industry we forever have to remain in that industry! Its the way we think that is the issue, and perhaps we need people in the employment assistance area to be more innovative and creative in how they assist people find employment.
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    4:52pm
    Problem is that those employed in the job search arena are just after numbers and often too inexperienced to assist. The only way to find work is do it yourself, get help writing up a resume. There are many people on Airtasker doing just that for a small fee.
    KSS
    7th May 2019
    12:31pm
    Wouldn't Mr Shorten do better to ensure that the over 55s did not lose their jobs in the first place, that more entry level jobs for the under 25s are created, and that the temporary work visas for imported workers were cut back and people trained to do those jobs?

    To ensure farmers and growers have the short term workers they need during harvesting etc continue the working holiday visa (back packers) but reduce the length of time a back packer can stay in Australia - take it back to one year. Back fill any shortfall by sending youth on the dole to work on the farms and orchards for the picking season. The kids will only be away from mummy and daddy for a few weeks, will be housed and fed as part of the deal, they will gain great lessons in responsibility, will earn more than the dole and be doing real work. Win win win all round.

    As it is this is nothing more than Mr Shorten trying to prove his 'small business' credentials which in actual fact are sadly lacking. More handouts for no results.
    Aussiefrog
    7th May 2019
    12:57pm
    Best, down to earth content so far.
    Aussiefrog
    7th May 2019
    12:59pm
    Comment - sorry
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    4:55pm
    Stop with the fruit picking thing again, we have been over this before, it is low wages, hard work, accommodation is pitiful and there is many cases of abuse. Backpackers only do it long enough to extend their visas. That industry needs a shake up, and proper wages and incentives. Taking on temporary work is another issue, too hard to get back on Newstart.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:01pm
    KSS - why are you blaming Shorten. Labor has not been in power for 6 years. It might be worth remembering that in that time the debt has almost tripled and jobs continue to be sold to the third world. You might also want to discuss 457 visas which the current government let go for its business mates. The list is quite long.
    Readers would not appreciate your unfair attack to deflect attention from the real culprits who have all but destituted our country.
    Paddington
    8th May 2019
    12:59am
    KSS, your tone is a tad bitter and sarcastic. How old are the kids you refer to?
    It is not a handout, it is called an incentive.
    Shorten impressed and displayed characteristics of a leader who will coach his team.
    Where is the LNP team? Hiding so as not to remind us of their shortcomings.
    Also, ScoMo has turned down this opportunity and one other. Also, Zed failed to turn up to the pub Q and A in Canberra. So many avoiding the spotlight!
    Aussiefrog
    7th May 2019
    12:35pm
    Another empty promise
    KSS
    7th May 2019
    12:44pm
    If there is one thing Mr Shorten is good at it telling people exactly what they want to hear. Compare his Adani answers in Victoria to those in Queensland!

    That's why he is refusing to answer any question about exactly how all this largess is going to be paid for. Tell us how much all his tax slugs are going to raise (and BTW there are more hidden slugs up his sleeve for super) some of which are to be implemented by 1 July this year and how much all these handouts are actually going to cost those of us still paying tax.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:03pm
    And the government is telling lies about a surplus. Same lie as Hockey tried on. Never had a surplus under the current lot. Only expensive tax cuts for the wealthy which the country cannot afford.
    If you want rubbery figures then look at your political party KSS.
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    5:35pm
    Agree with Mike about rubbery figures.Most parties have them.Maybe that's why Shorten wont/cant release costing figures on many topics.More rubber than Dunlop produce.
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    5:35pm
    Agree with Mike about rubbery figures.Most parties have them.Maybe that's why Shorten wont/cant release costing figures on many topics.More rubber than Dunlop produce.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:37pm
    Circum, aren't the policies still with the PBO for costing and expected back in the coming days? This is still a week earlier than in past elections.
    Not a Bludger
    7th May 2019
    12:39pm
    Another shonky plan from the Bill we cannot afford.
    This “plan” will be rorted from go to whoa - reminds me of the cash for clunkers programme.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:05pm
    Better than the lies from your government which sends tens of billions of dollars to its rich mates whilst it slowly destroys our economy to enrich its coal mates.
    Your posts defy logic....but then you are a cash for comment poster.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:46pm
    funny how many small businesses rort government schemes intended to stimulate spending, be it clunkers, pink batts, school halls, apprenticeships, work experience etc ... just human nature I guess
    Not a Bludger
    7th May 2019
    8:22pm
    Quite right Farside and some big businesses too.
    Pity that people like Mick are so completely divorced from the reality of the world today.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    8:42pm
    Reality Bludger? You have none.
    My assertion confronts the facts. You appear to be stuck in first gear repeating the party line over and over again.

    The current government IS OWNED by the coal industry and the Murdoch media who tell it what to do. Not a government of any sort. And then lets discuss tax cuts for the rich and for companies using lies to justify them. Trickle Down Economics - BS BS BS! Tell it one more time Bludger. I'll stand on the side of reality rather than political lies.
    mogo51
    7th May 2019
    1:04pm
    The problem with these schemes is that employers rirt the system and milk it, then dump the employee.
    Rosret
    7th May 2019
    1:05pm
    I doubt its 86 000. Lots use the Newstart allowance as a perk.
    However employers don't want older employees. They are are either too qualified, too slow, too much of a health risk, too set in their ways, too authoritarian, too old world etc etc etc. - Even if they are none of the above employers want to be the boss and have full control over their employees. Old and wise is not what they are looking for - they want minions.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    7:51pm
    Newstart is a perk, really? But apropos older workers, given the choice an employer gets little more from hiring an older worker than one ten years younger, when they are at their peak, so may as well recruit someone able to offer longer tenure at the firm. The harsh reality is that more seniors need to be exiting the workforce to create advancement opportunities for those not in the twilight of their careers.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:37pm
    Yes - but they should exit when they are comfortable to do so - not be driven out into the snowy fields with nothing...

    No wonder Howard stole the guns.....
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    11:26pm
    Trebor, unfortunately society cannot wait for seniors to be comfortable to leave the workforce hence the need for a proper safety net to ensure a dignified and respectful transition from eagle to feather duster. It is arguable whether seniors should be preferenced ahead of youngsters for entry level and unskilled work, all things being equal. This demographic timebomb was being discussed back in the mid 90s so it is disappointing 20 years on that we pretend to be surprised and have no plan to deal with it.
    gerry
    7th May 2019
    1:20pm
    By the time Bills finished we will all be back to work,,,,He wants to tax our piggy banks and at 83 I,ll certainly have to work, problem is we will all be trying to pick up the same can for recycling
    KSS
    7th May 2019
    1:35pm
    Better start training by running laps of your back yard (or balcony) and lifting cans of baked beans so you can get there first gerry. hahaha
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:06pm
    Tax our piggy banks? What do you call tax cuts for the wealthy and WHO do you think is paying for these? Santa Claus?
    gerry
    7th May 2019
    1:20pm
    By the time Bills finished we will all be back to work,,,,He wants to tax our piggy banks and at 83 I,ll certainly have to work, problem is we will all be trying to pick up the same can for recycling
    Polly
    7th May 2019
    1:28pm
    What about those who have always worked for themselves like my husband who has always been a builder - he could have continued working for quite quite a few more years but once he turned 65 could only extend his insurance by 1 more year!
    KSS
    7th May 2019
    1:38pm
    And that part of the puzzle is unanswered Polly. Likewise workers comp is also an issue for employers and older employees. It too runs out before people stop work.
    Anonymous
    7th May 2019
    2:52pm
    Yes Polly, there is a contradiction with OH&S (or whatever name they have come up with today) in who is allowed to do what. I do volunteer work and as I am over 65, I am not allowed to climb a ladder. I know a retiree aged 83 who can run rings around people half his age but he too is caught up in this arbitrary rubbish.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:11pm
    Builders? Don't get me going.
    I have a relative in construction and he has had builders thieve from him several times. The scam is builders make a whole pile of claims against subbies once the work is done to avoid paying them. And then there's those who go broke and open up under a new name a week later.
    Sorry Polly but builders have similar reputations to used car salesmen, real estate sales people and lawyers. I don't feel a lot of empathy for builders.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:39pm
    You must know the same foreign type of 'builder' who ripped off the ex's nephew.... then there are the Slim Mehajers of this world who get their projects through, enjoy millions, and leave town owing everyone...
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:42pm
    Maybe developers and builders need to have an independent body that accepts and handles the cash on their behalf until the project is finished.... that way they don't actually get to handle it themselves and run around in the Rolls etc long before the project even turns a sod...

    The kind of thievery that kind indulge in is one root cause for a controlling government.... and why hard regulations come into force...
    Anne
    7th May 2019
    1:30pm
    I tried to work for a long time after being made redundant. No one would hire me, even though I have a great resume.

    I went back to uni and got a masters degree. I graduate next week. I'm tired now. I don't want to work until I'm 67 or 70.

    I did my bit; I paid my taxes. I am not currently on any welfare, but am planning to possibly go on Centrelink if I don't get into a PhD program next year. I know they are bullies and I'm not looking forward to it.

    There is no way they will help me to get a job.
    Anne
    7th May 2019
    1:31pm
    PS I am almost 58.
    Possum
    7th May 2019
    1:54pm
    Volunteer at an approved organisation like community driving and you will find it a little bit easier going to Centrelink with it already in place
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:12pm
    That's the next scam from the current government. Volunteer and work for nothing. That'll help pay the bills.
    gerry
    7th May 2019
    1:32pm
    to all those who get sucked in by Q@A ,you should know that young anarchists are bussed in for the program ,my young friend pulls them in off the street
    Tony Jones, and all the participants in Q@A ,The DRUM,INSIDERS,THE CONVERSATION are as bad as the SKY MOB
    TRIOLI pulls in more than a million a year and travels in Limousines and first class air and she is an anarchist humbug
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:15pm
    Oh yeah....when its not going your way you cry foul.
    Information I have is the audience is NOT a one sided group. If you want that go to any right wing event where it always is.
    You can't handle the truth gerry and Q&A, unlike the Murdoch and Stokes propaganda rags, tells it like it is. That's called DEMOCRACY. Your side disapproves of this.
    Farside
    7th May 2019
    8:09pm
    Gerry you must be looking at different audiences to those broadcast on tv, else some people have had very hard albeit short lives. Many certainly looked far from being young anarchists.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    8:45pm
    Correct Farside.
    Gerry is one of the Turnbull look alikes who want to sell off the ABC because it refuses to run the government propaganda. Can't allow discussion and free speech from either side now can we. The gerry model!
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:42pm
    Sure, sure, Gerry - they post the audience mix every time they air.....
    On the Ball
    7th May 2019
    1:51pm
    I am disappointed at the lack of reasoned responses from your readers.
    Are ALL elderly people so brainwashed by the LNP media machine that they actually beleive the lies?
    Cant wait to hit that "delete" button!
    Kealley McGregor
    7th May 2019
    2:03pm
    I agree with you., to the person who said there were jobs I said....Sorry, but when you say there are no jobs, you could be wrong! When I was in business I desperately needed to employ someone but just couldn't afford to do so, the business was growing but the increased income would be negated by the cost of employing a new worker and the extra tax bill on top of that. Turned out the transition from growing family business to larger company would cost more than could cope with at the time. Ended up working 7 days a week, 18 hours a day, broken marriage, stress, sickness.. end of business. People couldn't understand it, said we were doing so well. I think his plan is a damn good one!
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:17pm
    On the Ball - you are making the mistake of assuming some of the above posts are from real people. Some are actually trolls paid to post right wing propaganda. After the election they'll be gone as will their employment.
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    5:43pm
    Well said On the Ball, I was thinking the same thing. Too much trolling and not enough sensible comments.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:44pm
    Kealley - your being unable to employ someone means there was no job.... ye must be a Lowlander to ken like that!
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:46pm
    I know full well the costs of working too hard... but Bill's scheme would only work if the incentive for employers was big enough etc.

    I got a massive free run with disability for a time, and rightly so - there was a subsidy if the employer wanted to claim it for putting me on - they did not, two in a row.
    Kealley McGregor
    7th May 2019
    1:59pm
    Sorry, but when you say there are no jobs, you could be wrong! When I was in business I desperately needed to employ someone but just couldn't afford to do so, the business was growing but the increased income would be negated by the cost of employing a new worker and the extra tax bill on top of that. Turned out the transition from growing family business to larger company would cost more than could cope with at the time. Ended up working 7 days a week, 18 hours a day, broken marriage, stress, sickness.. end of business. People couldn't understand it, said we were doing so well. I think his plan is a damn good one!
    Kealley McGregor
    7th May 2019
    2:13pm
    Just an extra.... my god don't you all get it !!!! The more people working the more people paying tax, the less people on welfare. The tax rebates as above would be well & truly made up for with more people employed. If I earn more I spend more, then other businesses earn more and so on. If I had more money then I would buy Australian made products all the time, but I am hardly managing on a disability pension and so have to buy cheap imported products which don't last as long so I have to buy them again after a short period. False economy but I have no other choice. People forget... IF YOU DON'T HAVE EMPLOYERS, THEN YOU WONT HAVE EMPLOYEES.. Get it ??????
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    5:45pm
    Everyone pays tax it is called GST and those on welfare spend all their money, mostly on rent to keep a roof over their head so they are helping those who pay tax on their investments.
    Aussie focussed
    7th May 2019
    9:52pm
    Common sense comment. Too few people think you just get a job with a company and sit around. An employer can only employ if you make money for the company. And the multiplier effect of employment is too often forgotton. Get a job, buy Australian if you can afford it. That applies to all the levels of government who don't do that themselves. DUH!!
    Excellent comments Kealley :)
    floss
    7th May 2019
    2:10pm
    Well worth a try Billy lets see if motor mouth Morrison has a better idea.
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:19pm
    Only deception, vile personal attacks and more lies.
    Lescol
    7th May 2019
    2:29pm
    Traditional employment is quickly ending and many need to accept the new regrime. Sadly. As an older person I believe the quicker we move to universal pensions the better. This appoach will then flow onto the newstarts, the carers, etc. cheers
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:20pm
    Tell that to the wealthy who do not think its their job to pay anybody anything. A bit like Trump's America where the wealthy are happy to see poor folk die in the streets rather than have a universal health system. Quite sick really.
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    5:46pm
    Yes many people are making a lot of money online, the young are very savvy at it.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:50pm
    Had an argument going for weeks now with a couple of self-proclaimed experts, who continue to reckon that companies should not pay taxes and shareholders should not. Their arguments just go round and round,and they even try to say that company tax is paid on behalf of the shareholder and is not a responsibility of every company, so the shareholder has already paid...

    I ended up just telling them to take it up with the ATO, and to pay their taxes on their PIT, and forget about company taxes... no likee - gettee out. Kitchen too hot - there's the door..

    7th May 2019
    2:30pm
    It's a situation normal election, politicians promising something which they cannot deliver. Jobs are provided by the private sector and politicians cannot dictate to them who they will employ. One thing politicians can control completely is the pension system and, to date, I don't recall any of them offering to increase pensions. It seems that franking credits will disappear and there will be changes to the super system which may affect retirees but nothing else.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:51pm
    It will all fall apart when Labor takes the helm and 'stumbles over' massive Black Holes in the budget... meaning they cannot keep their promises (core or non-core)... then the Senate will block some of their excesses, and they will blame the Senate...

    Then in three year's time the Black Holes and budget emergencies will vanish like a snow flake in Hell...
    sunnyOz
    7th May 2019
    2:33pm
    More pifling rubbish! Then I hear on the morning news - Shorten has flagged four other changes to super - which he cannot go into just yet until full costings have been done!
    Only this morning - I was notified I was not successful in getting a casual job at my local supermarket. And that is NOT due to lack of experience, ability, capability, etc. This is the FOURTEENTH time I have applied to a local supermarket for some work. I have had 7 interviews - never cracked it for a job. A lady in my street works for one of the supermarkets, and often tells me when they are looking for workers. BUT - she has told me to 'dumb' down my resume, and 'not be so confident'. I speak well, present well, and have excellent communication skills. Looks like next time I will put on temp tattoos, wear a hoodie, track shoes and have a mobile phone in my hand.
    Oh - but there will not be a next time. I am tired of wasting my time - applying, going to interviews, etc - when it is obvious the only thing going against me is my age.
    Yes - you might see some senior workers in these stores. BUT - ask them 2 questions. Have you been in this job long, and have you just got this job? They will ALL say they have been in the job a long time. These employers will NOT hire senior workers.
    Oh - and I am NOT the hunchback of Notre Dame! (although he is homeless now)..... I am not ready for the wheelie walker, I don't have dementia, I can add 2 & 2 (without a calculator or mobile phone), and as my hobby is occasional horse riding and care, can lug round 20kg bales of hay no problems. I walk and cycle every day - but STILL don't look 'young' enough to fit their workplace criteria. My neighbor also told me that they like their staff to feel 'comfortable' around people their own age. Well may be they could LEARN something from some seniors! I saw a poster recently that said -
    Things Money can't buy - that seniors have - that younger ones need to learn -
    1. Manners
    2. Morals
    3. Respect
    4. Character
    5. Common Sense
    6. Trust
    7. Patience
    8. Class
    9. Integrity
    10. Love

    NOW I know why I would not 'fit in' with other staff...they do not want to be shown lacking.
    older&wiser
    8th May 2019
    5:28pm
    sunnyOz - totally agree with you! I have found the same thing. Having to 'dumb down' my resume, and competing with youngsters. I don't want senior corporate jobs any more - just a few hours a week to keep the brain ticking, talking to people instead of my dog.
    BUT - like you, I get a number of requests for interviews. BUT - as soon as they see me - I can see the look in their eyes. I was even bold enough to tell a recent young (around 22) interviewer that it appeared obvious I was wasting both our time as she constantly looked at the clock on the wall.
    I was in my local supermarket this morning. (1) I have nothing against big people, but a staff member dropped an item. She was so big, she could not pick it up. And she huffed and puffed every step she took. (2) Asked an assistant where I could find an item. He said to go and ask at the customer inquiries desk. (3) person on checkout - tatts over both arms, unkempt hair, with dandruff across shoulders.
    No matter what incentive they throw at employers, it won't make a rats arse of a difference....
    oldtimer
    7th May 2019
    3:26pm
    What do you think of Labor’s job creation plan?
    As I understand this article, Bill Shorten (if in power), will reduce the employer’s taxable income by an additional $18,000, per worker for up to 5 workers. That equals $90,000.00. But the gift to the employer is capped at $50,000.00. So the employer cannot take on 5 full time employees at award wages.

    If an employer has enough work to start new employees, instead of hiring someone in the 25 to 55 age group, he or she will employ someone outside that age group, thereby ensuring that employees in the 25 to 55 age group have an additional barrier to finding employment in an environment where workers in their peak fitness and production age, have been experiencing increasingly fewer long term work opportunities.

    If an employer does not have enough work to start new employees, instead of keeping employed someone in the 25 to 55 age group, he will jettison employees in that group to employ someone outside that age group, to allow the employer to receive the $50,000.00 gift.

    Shifting unemployment age statistics from one age group to another IS NOT CREATING JOBS. It is creating an unfair barrier against employment of an age group where no barrier previously existed.

    More importantly, it is creating a shortfall in tax revenue of up to $50,000.00 per employer (frequently described as the much maligned ‘big end of town’ fraternity.)

    If this is applied to 10 employers, the tax shortfall will be 10 x 50K = $500,000.00
    If this is applied to 100 employers, the tax shortfall will be 100 x 50K = $5,000,000.00
    If this is applied to 1000 employers, the tax shortfall will be 1000 x 50K = $50 million.
    You can do the arithmetic for more employers.

    Then a few thousand new employees will contribute some income tax and the same number will probably become eligible for dole, or some other welfare payment.

    Will the new employees income tax counterbalance the new welfare payments cost?

    It is reasonable to predict that the net result will be millions of dollars towards an increasing budget deficit.

    The previous right wing government left a budget surplus.

    Then the left wing government left a deficit.

    The current right wing government is claiming they have won the deficit battle and will soon be in surplus.

    Budget deficit means borrowing money to make ends meet. Or as frequently described, putting this generation’s debts on the next generations bankcard.

    How is the proposed scheme creating jobs?
    MICK
    7th May 2019
    5:24pm
    Shorten promised to CREATE NEW JOBS, probably in renewables. That's something Morrison's morons could not even contemplate.

    The rubbish you talk about above fails to mention the GFC. Look it up. It makes the rest of your propaganda look quite impotent.
    Then please discuss the last 6 years under this rotten rich man's government where the debt has all but tripled. Apparently there's plenty of money for tax cuts for the wealthy though...............
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    8:07pm
    You are on the ball Oldtimer.All Shortens plan will create is a system which for example tells people to come back in a couple of weeks as they haven't been unemployed long
    enough.Ok I am wrong,it will employ more public servants in non value adding work.
    Its sad that politicians can claim ideas which have no logical basis.Maybe that's because they think we are all dumb.
    Circum
    7th May 2019
    8:07pm
    You are on the ball Oldtimer.All Shortens plan will create is a system which for example tells people to come back in a couple of weeks as they haven't been unemployed long
    enough.Ok I am wrong,it will employ more public servants in non value adding work.
    Its sad that politicians can claim ideas which have no logical basis.Maybe that's because they think we are all dumb.
    oldtimer
    8th May 2019
    8:56am
    Hey Mick.

    You said "Shorten promised to CREATE NEW JOBS, probably in renewables."

    Everybody knows that creating jobs in renewables is deliberately designed to put coal industry workers on the uneployment scrap heap, regardless of their age.

    How is that creating jobs?

    Solar power is not available at night and wind power is not available when there is no wind.

    Net result will be more expensive and unreliable electricity replacing reliable coal powered more affordable electricity.
    Farside
    8th May 2019
    2:14pm
    you may have to rethink your position on renewables Oldtimer when the world's largest miners are already transitioning to low carbon. Even one of the world's largest copper producers is on the verge of going fully renewables after announcing closure of its coal plant.
    https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/05/01/kennecott-is-closing-its/

    Your simplistic understanding of energy reliability is why you are wrong on the reliability of coal fired power stations. The Australia Institute’s Gas & Coal Watch found 135 breakdowns at gas and coal plants in 2018, equivalent to one breakdown every 2.7 days. There were 118 breakdowns of coal power plants, equivalent to one breakdown every 3.1 days. Even the new technology black coal plants (so-called “HELE” plants) suffered more breakdowns per gigawatt than their ageing black coal counterparts. This is why investors are not rushing to maintain and invest in coal plants.
    oldtimer
    8th May 2019
    4:46pm
    Hi Farside.
    Thanks for your interesting input regarding coal plants in Utah and your enlightening advice regarding the reliability of coal fired power stations.

    I respectfully suggest that the air quality of Salt Lake valley is important as is the reliability of coal powered and renewables, but is beyond the scope of this article.

    The article under discussion clearly asked.

    What do you think of Labor’s job creation plan? Will it work?

    As mentioned, my concern is that allowing employers to substantially reduce their normal tax payments, (which must result in a reduction in Government tax revenue) to favour one age group and prejudice another age group is not creating jobs.

    Mick made a comment I could not find in the article, stating that Shorten promised to create new jobs ‘probably’ in renewables. Accordingly, in the context of this article, I am duty-bound to record that renewables is the one industry dedicated to putting thousands of coal industry workers out of work.

    In response to the question, what do you think of Labor’s job creation plan? I cannot see how favouring one group of workers while prejudicing another is creating jobs.
    Farside
    8th May 2019
    6:39pm
    Oldtimer, I only went into the coal information and reliability after reading your reply to Mick. Having worked in SLC I was familiar with this story and that Bingham Canyon is one of the world's largest mines.

    So far as your post goes on ALP job creation plan goes, I have my doubts as I have said elsewhere. There are good reasons why employers are reluctant to hire older workers ahead of those a decade younger. Job disruption due to technology advances will only add to displacing workers. It makes little sense to give existing entry level and unskilled jobs to older workers while there are unemployed and underemployed youngsters.

    FYI I have worked in the coal industry in Hunter Valley NSW and around the industry in Bowen Basin Qld. Mines have an economic life and will close eventually but not next year. Mining economics is a finely tuned balance of capital management and miners will do what they need to do to reduce costs. Rest assured closures will be gradual as existing mines operate under state agreements and will continue to operate to fill long term contracts.

    You talk about renewables putting thousands of coal workers out work. Mining accounts for only 2% of the workforce, and coal mining a quarter of that, so maybe not as many thousands as you might think. Added to this fact consider the average mine worker is in mid-40s, older than national average, and retire earlier for health and other reasons. As such most mines plan for managing an ageing workforce and mines will need fewer workers over time as mine automation becomes more widespread.

    Have you thought through what expansion of automated coal mining (e.g. Adani's Carmichael and other Galilee Basin mines) will do to older, less automated mines in a world shifting to renewables? The Australia Institute submission to government re opening the Galilee found, based on coal industry analysis, central estimates of employment reduction are 9,100 in the Hunter Valley, 2,000 in the Bowen Basin and 1,400 in the Surat Basin compared to a no-Galilee scenario. Galilee mines are likely to employ between 7,840 and 9,800 people, resulting in overall negative impact on coal jobs. In other words Carmichael and other mines will cannibalise market share from existing mines resulting in net job losses.

    All is not what it might seem if you look under the doona.
    musicveg
    7th May 2019
    5:51pm
    We might need the jobs before the incentives, but if there are businesses that want to employ someone but cannot afford to it might just help.
    TREBOR
    7th May 2019
    9:27pm
    Back pay on childcare would go a long way.....

    Are they going to give us grand-kid childcare subsidy?
    Adrianus
    8th May 2019
    8:38am
    It must really stick in the craw of Labor ideologues that they have no real idea on how to foster the creation of new jobs, possibly because they lack the political will?
    This so called "jobs plan" is nothing more than a feeble attempt to create division in the electorate by announcing a plan to encourage age discrimination. Furthermore, Bill is talking about his so called despised "top of the town" profiteers. In order to benefit a business would need to unload Bill's unwanted age group and replace with Bill's preferred age group, then, and this is the kicker, make a bloody profit. If there is no profit, then there is no tax benefit.
    Lookfar
    8th May 2019
    9:50am
    Sounds like propaganda Adrianus, firstly, the anti older workers discrimination already exists, for some emploers to choose older workers there needs to be an incentive, which is exactly what Shorten has promised.
    The second part of your letter is a bit mixed up, the only businesses to get the tax cut are businesses with a turnover of less than $10 millon/year, that is not a top of the town despised profiteer, - sounds like you are choking on your own bile, older workers are often quite superior to younger ones, it depends on the situation.
    Adrianus
    8th May 2019
    9:37pm
    Discrimination only exists because people use it as justification to introduce more discrimination of their own. You say Bill Shorten's discrimination is better than the discrimination which exists. I say show me the evidence of its existence and I'll then ask you to show me how Bill's discrimination will not perpetuate and intensify the issue.
    Adrianus
    8th May 2019
    9:40pm
    Furthermore, if as you say, to employ an older worker there needs to be an incentive, isn't that being a little demeaning of the older worker?
    Dr Beat
    9th May 2019
    1:00am
    Well done Bill. Once again you have demonstrated you have no idea of the real world having spent all your working life in the union movement arguing for unreasonable working conditions for Australians that have forced many businesses to close their doors and encouraged others to outsource and go overseas completely or transfer some parts of their operations overseas to avoid paying high wages and compulsory superannuation. There are now over 30,000 Australian call centre jobs transferred to telemarketing centres in the Phillipiness where they pay one third the cost of wages and no compulsory superannuation. That's right. 30,000 jobs robbed from Australians who have lost an opportunity to work productively in their own country. And don't forget Labour under Bill would like to increase the SGC to 12% and flirts with the idea of introducing death and inheritance taxes to pay for their fancy and expensive policies that they are proposing. Sorry Bill but you are just one big hypocrite who we just cannot trust and whom we cannot afford. Come to regional Australiia in the Goulburn Valley where I live and see the impact of climate change and less water on farming and manufacturing here and see the significant decline in jobs here. Add the humanitarian immigration resettlement programs located here and you might see and understand why we are all totally stuffed living here. No water, no jobs and more tax funded people to support. What a joke. We are no longer the lucky country but the unlucky country being destroyed by our 3 tiered level of government and its poor leadership and poor management.
    musicveg
    9th May 2019
    2:52am
    The Libs are responsible for everything you say, they had their chance to fix things in the last 6 years, but did bugger all, only for the rich businesses who have had massive profits whilst everyone else suffered, not Labor at all.
    oldtimer
    9th May 2019
    11:10am
    Hi Farside.

    We are drifting a little from the original ‘job creation’ topic, but your knowledgeable input is relevant and appreciated by me and possibly other readers, especially based on your experience in the coal industry.

    I add a comment on a few points you made.
    You said, “Mining economics is a finely tuned balance of capital management and miners will do what they need to do to reduce costs.”

    The same “finely tuned balance” and “will do what they need to do to reduce costs,” applies to most industries, and that is why managers are duty bound to take advantage of the opportunities to reduce tax by up to $50,000.00 simply by prejudicing one age group in favour of another, especially in those jobs which are easily learned or low skilled.

    If they didn’t seize those opportunities, they would soon find themselves ‘put out to pasture’ regardless of their age. I repeat, the practice does not create jobs.

    You said, “Mining accounts for only 2% of the workforce” and referred to “Employment reduction” and “Net job losses”.

    Mining may be a comparatively small percentage of the workforce, but for those thousands of mine workers it is exactly 100% of their employment opportunities, especially since mining, by definition does not take place in the cities where other work opportunities may be available. Consequently, retraining is not likely to be available.

    Favouring employment in ‘renewables’ to destroy mining employment does not create jobs.

    “Mines have an economic life and will close eventually”.

    I can confirm the reality of this statement. In another country; I worked a few years underground in a mine which became unviable and has now closed. The Google maps show the area has been resurrected to the woodlands which existed before the first shaft was sunk.

    I have lived (and moved away from) places where the main employment industries have closed down and no alternative jobs have been created, leaving many of the workers who are unable to move away, facing soul-destroying long term unemployment.

    The concept of ‘Job creation’ is desirable but in the proposed employee age manipulation scheme is a myth.
    Farside
    9th May 2019
    5:50pm
    oldtime, my comment on mining economics is that it is a capital intensive industry and financial decisions are made dispassionately and in a global context.

    My point with job losses in mining is that these will happen as a result of natural attrition and increasing automation. So far as coal mining goes, the rise of automated mining in Galilee Basin (and associated new jobs) will result in loss of a greater number of jobs in established coal regions.

    I understand from first hand experience that mining is a boom/bust industry and retraining in new industries is not always practical. The new jobs in renewables will create more opportunities than those lost in mining. But never fear, existing mine employees have plenty of time to ponder their futures and make career decisions as coal mines will not disappear overnight and many of the skills in coal mining are transferable to other mining and related activities.

    I agree the the proposed employee age manipulation is likely to end in tears for the reasons I explained above.
    oldtimer
    10th May 2019
    4:52pm
    Farside.

    You said, “The new jobs in renewables will create more opportunities than those lost in mining.” I sincerely hope you are correct because they are desperately needed to satisfy the demand for work.

    Dr Beat in his insightful analysis in the above post lamented, “30,000 jobs robbed from Australians who have lost an opportunity to work productively in their own country”.

    Genuine Job Creation is urgently needed to meet the current demand and every year a new cohort of educated work-ready young people have serious difficulty in getting the “opportunity to work productively in their own country.”
    musicveg
    10th May 2019
    5:13pm
    The trick to finding work is looking up what the growing industries are and which are expected to rise and getting the right skills to match. Also with the influx of overseas students graduating and choosing to stay in Australia we have an over supply of young people. Our Government encourages this because they are paying students.
    oldtimer
    10th May 2019
    6:32pm
    musicveg

    Getting the skills to match growing industries is of course sound advice.

    Perhaps banning the export of jobs such as those in the growing industry of call centres described by Dr Beat, would help to provide career opportunities for our highly skilled tech savvy young people. Some of those who currently need Newstart would become tax payers.


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