Tudge labels Australia’s welfare system as “poison”

Alan Tudge labels Australia’s social security system as “poison” for the unemployed.

Tudge labels Australia’s welfare system as “poison”

Human Services Minister Alan Tudge has labelled Australia’s social security system as “poison” for the unemployed, saying it has become a destination rather than a safety net.

Speaking at a $300 per head lunch last week, Mr Tudge presented the Coalition’s plans for the welfare system to the Committee for Economic Development of Australia.

Interestingly, a single ticket to this lunch is equivalent to what a Newstart recipient receives in a week.

Mr Tudge spoke about ideas to reduce the long-term dependency on Centrelink benefits, improve Jobseeker compliance and how to reduce Government spending on welfare.

According to Mr Tudge, the principle behind the Coalition’s policies is “the best form of welfare is a job, and everything should be geared towards supporting capable people into work wherever possible”.

Mr Tudge believes that the welfare system may set up Australians to fail.

“The most pressing problem is that our welfare system is failing too many of the individuals it was set up to serve,” said Mr Tudge.

“Too many people are led into lives of dependence and passivity, with insufficient incentive to make the most of their innate potential.

“While welfare, for a short period, can be a blessing for a capable person temporarily out of work, long-term welfare dependence can become a poison. Over time, welfare dependence sucks the life out of people and can diminish their capability.”

Along with the recipient drug testing program announced in Budget 2017/18, Mr Tudge also disclosed plans to introduce a demerit points system for non-compliance, simplified payment categories and an expansion of the cashless welfare card.

The lunch was attended by economists and political types, but activist group GetUp! made sure that a group of victims of Centrelink’s robo-debt recovery system were present at the event.

GetUp!’s national director, Paul Oosting, said he wanted Mr Tudge to see the real people that have been, and will be, affected by his welfare reforms.

“We want to make sure that everyday Australians, that people who rely on our social safety net, have a seat at the table,” said Mr Oosting. “That’s why we’re here.

“Minister Tudge needs to start listening to these people to understand what it’s like to live on our social safety net and [be] locked out of the jobs market. So, we’re here to make sure he’s confronted by those people.”

Read more at The Guardian

If the best form of welfare is a job, should the Government be doing more to improve Australian job prospects? Should the Government be spending less on lunches and more on serving the needs of average Australians? Is Mr Tudge even qualified to make such statements?

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    COMMENTS

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    TREBOR
    31st May 2017
    10:13am
    Well - he can't be talking about Pensions and Unemployment Benefits etc - since those are Social Security bought and paid for over many decades in advance, and are now bills due on government and are thus to be paid without complaint of receive a letter of demand from the lenders.

    He really needs to focus his mind on simple realities such as that above - and on the simple reality that there are probably 5% of jobs available to the unemployed and under-employed, and thus there is NO 'Social Security Dependency' - just a lack of real work and a real future and future retirement for millions - at least one sixth of the workforce.

    What is wrong with this system is the way it has been stuffed by his and previous governments in various ways that have been outlined here and elsewhere times many.
    TREBOR
    31st May 2017
    10:15am
    AND that includes the way they've panicked over the apparent non-working of the superannuation system BEFORE they've even allowed it to run a full 'lifetime' of fifty years.

    But stoopid is as stoopid does, as they all say down in Green Bow.
    Sen.Cit.90
    31st May 2017
    11:39am
    Thanks Trebor, my thoughts well put.
    GeorgeM
    31st May 2017
    11:48am
    Absolutely right, TREBOR. This is coming from a Minister who tolerates incompetence by accepting a failed Robo Debt recovery system - the people who implemented this nonsense should have been put on the Dole!

    Both major parties have destroyed jobs here by massive Outsourcing (IT jobs to India, Philippines, etc), 457 visas handing jobs at all levels to foreigners, destroyed manufacturing, etc, and then they blame the victims? Throw these rascals out as soon as possible!!!
    Lookfar
    31st May 2017
    10:20am
    Same old sick song, Mr Tudge, blame those who can't get work because there aren't enough jobs to go around, - how about accepting the blame yourself, you are in a position to help create more jobs, and that would be responsible, but instead, lke an alcoholic, you blame others for the fact that you do nothing. - "Mommy, the Neo-Liberals forced me to hate the poor". How craven can you get?
    Rosscoe
    31st May 2017
    10:41am
    What hypocrites these LNP parliamentarians are! Bring on the next election so that we can toss them out.
    Shetso1
    31st May 2017
    10:42am
    35% unemployment in some parts of regional Australia and worse in rural and remote Australia, with massive under-employment an ever present reality for many ....

    And yet you still have some righteous judgemental wankers and Wankeresses proclaiming long and loud that

    'ALL those on welfare are lazy because the jobs are there to be had' ...

    If that is the case I suggest employers with all these jobs on offer head to every Centrelink office in the country and give jobs to people in the Centrelink queues....
    KSS
    31st May 2017
    12:51pm
    Where in the article does it say Mr Trudge said "'ALL those on welfare are lazy because the jobs are there to be had' ...
    Shetso1
    31st May 2017
    1:02pm
    I didn't claim Tudge said this... However in my experience it is too often and unfairly assumed that those who are on welfare, often through no fault of their own, are often stereotyped as 'dole bludgers' who refuse to work.. When the closer reality is that people are desperate for any sort of work but NO ONE HIRING!!!
    Charlie
    31st May 2017
    2:22pm
    There are jobs out there a person could learn in a day or two. But you need to have a piece of paper to say you have done it before. The unions seem to have made everyone a professional.
    TREBOR
    31st May 2017
    11:59pm
    How is that the Unions' fault, Charlie? It's the employers who assume that a piece of paper means you know what you're doing. If you're talking about trade qualifications, those are controlled by government bodies.
    Retired Knowall
    1st Jun 2017
    5:02pm
    How come we need to import Thousands of 457 Visa workers?
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    5:12pm
    We don't - it's part of the two-pronged program (may be three):-

    1. The impact of unregulated or nearly so foreign workers arriving 'legally' on our shores from much lower wage rate and conditions countries serves to place downward pressure on Australian wages and conditions, and thus suits the new Robber Baron class attempting to stage a coup in this nation.

    2. The consequent reduction in real wages and conditions will permit the near absolute control over the populace outside of a selected inner circle, and the division of our nation into a society of multiple phases of involvement, opportunity, wealth and living style.

    https://sites.google.com/site/grappleruniversitypublications/home/department-of-irreverent-revolutionary-thought-dirt/money-divides

    3. (if any in reality) this serves to 'do our duty' to those nations currently suffering under poverty and often hunger, by 'offering' some of them an opportunity to get a better income and life.**


    **(how that will work out in the End of Days I have no idea - put simply - you do not materially improve the lot of the TEEMING masses in one country by reducing the lot of the masses in the 'host' country.. all you do is bring more people down and bring those of the 'host' nation down far more (as is happening as we speak) ... I once did figures on differences between Asian wages and Australian ones, and at that time, say around 2005, the average Australian would need to drop nearly $20 an hour to be 'equal')....
    dweezy2176
    31st May 2017
    10:53am
    Tudge by name, turgid by nature .. He really, really needs to take both feet out of his mouth .. This bloke is making "Hank" sound intelligent, "It's not IF but WHEN".
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:55am
    Fat Hank needs to be put on notice - we want a government that will go into the next election with the stated policies of getting rid of the current public service senior executive and returning them to the public service instead of the control of their political masters via contract... and of undoing all the harm these twerps have done.

    Watch these dicks line up in the courts to scream 'breach of contract' and so forth...

    After getting rid of these political sycophants - the search should be on for REAL talent to serve the people.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:55am
    It's not IF but WHEN, Hank... prepare your parachute....
    Jim
    31st May 2017
    11:42am
    Most of the comments so far are fair enough and expected, but can anyone say with honesty that they don't know at least one or two bludgers that have never are rarely worked a day in their lives, I go to my local club once or twice a week and see the same people there who I know have never worked, they are still having a punt, still having a drink or three, I don't know how they manage it but they do, for most of them it's too late to change, so how do we tackle the problem with the current generation? I don't pretend to know the answer, but surely there is someone out there that's smart enough or is the problem unsolvable?
    GeorgeM
    31st May 2017
    11:55am
    Dim, this is not about one or two bludgers - nobody wants that, however it is about the Govts destroying jobs and then blaming the victims (see my earlier post above). Most unemployed people are in that category. It is also about ideology - by this right-wing Govt.

    Also, have you come across any rich person who has paid his full rate of tax without claiming deductions? How come they aren't hitting hard at the many tax minimisation methods???
    Shetso1
    31st May 2017
    12:07pm
    So how do you know the people you see at your club once or twice a week have NEVER worked....Hell these people may have applied for hundreds of jobs for all you know...Perhaps they work night shifts or work on the days you don't see them at the club....Perhaps they work from home!.....

    ,Or perhaps the next time you hear of a job vacancy somewhere you could suggest to the employer for him to approach the 'so called bludgers at your club who have NEVER worked a day on their lives' according to you and ask the said employer to offer them a job so you won't have to see them at your club s couple of days a week. .

    Or perhaps you're just making judgements about people based on assumptions...
    Jim
    31st May 2017
    6:12pm
    Shetso maybe you are the one making assumptions, the people I am talking about are well known to me, In fact I am on friendly terms with them and have known them for at least 50 years, to my knowledge there is nothing wrong with them, they play golf, go fishing and years ago played touch footie, I don't know how they manage it but they do and have done for as long as I can remember. The point that I was making is that I don't believe that what I have seen is an isolated incident, I know that the majority of unemployed people that have been made unemployed through no fault of their own would love to find another job as quickly as possible, also a lot of long term unemployed will find it hard to find employment for lots of different reasons including lack of interest. I admitted in my previous comment that I don't know the answer, I don't think ideology comes into it, we have had the same unemployment problems for many years covering all political parties time in office.
    Eddy
    31st May 2017
    8:23pm
    I suspect that there are unemployed out there that will never get a job because they don't want one. Okay let us accept that and effectively write them off, pay them the dole (if only to keep them from resorting to crime to fund their lifestyle) then start putting resources into those that really want a job.
    JAID
    31st May 2017
    8:45pm
    I don't actually know any bludgers Dim, some I know take it easy but that is their right, they may work part-time because other things interest them more and as they don't demand a lot...fair enough.

    Mr Tudge suggests that a system that institutionalises dependency and passivity fails our people. I think that is correct. The challenge of life is too valuable to let a government absorb it.

    If we take that as the starting ground it becomes a matter of how we can approach maximisation of every citizen's will and potential.

    That is not merely working as we know it. We do not have sufficient jobs and we do not have sufficient jobs which challenge and extend people. Evaluation of the need and the potential along with creation or trialing of new ways of participating and mechanisms for general inclusion are necessary.

    Some for various reasons will be unable to work. Some will simply need time between jobs with not too much upheaval of their situation but those areas can be handled. Inclusion in a productive society is a key challenge for government. That challenge gets greater every day as automation churns on.

    Automation in itself is not something to fear. Why would we want humans to undertake unnecessary manual or tedious work? The challenge lies in our being open and resourceful enough to appreciate that inclusion is a value inherent in our democracy as is responsibilty. It must remain a primary objective of government to find ways of developing and maintaining that inclusion and the maximum degree of flexibility we are able to maintain in the face of incoming massive workplace changes.

    I don't know if other thinking underpins anything Mr. Tudge says but this one area at face value is a starting point where we should all be on the same page. We can all work toward a better future.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:00am
    If you've known them for fifty years - they must be at retirement age.
    Shetso1
    1st Jun 2017
    7:14am
    Jaid, Re: Automation and employment. Can appreciate the benefits of automation and technology but do believe the ethical use of technology and its impact on unemployment outcomes should be factored into its use

    . Likewiae do think the world has been seduced by, if not totally addicted to and reliant on much of this 'bells and whistles' technology to the point where we are making ourselves redundant at a rapid pace....

    Guess on a major level we are well and truly in the midst of a 21st century industrial revolution and just as many were thrown on the unemploynent scrapheap a few centuries ago such is the case now....

    Think the ethical use of technology and its human impact both positive and negative should be a major consideration in what is deemed as 'progress...

    .Seems only a few are benefitting by this new world order with many being left behind with no chance of catch-up...
    Shetso1
    1st Jun 2017
    8:28am
    Geez Dim, you've known these people for 50 years, are on friendly terms with them, and it seems you've never asked them 'what they do for s crust'? Or have they actually told you they have never worked over that time and are on the dole?

    I mean after 50 years of knowing someone you usually get around at some point to asking each other what you do for a living or asking where do you work!!
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:38pm
    Perhaps we could get all theoretical and use the right words (I'll try)... automation under the existing capitalism first paradigm is inevitably only going to produce a better outcome for those already in the 'loop' - the rest will become part of the criminal underworld to survive or will participate in the Hunger Games or will revolt.

    Unless a clear line is drawn now between the overweaning desire for capitalism based ideology to generate profit for its own at any cost, automation will be a disaster.

    Many years ago we were told that automation would give us greater leisure time etc - indeed it does - for those with the shares etc - the rest have more time to hang about on the beaches or under the bridges.

    Bear in mind I haven't 'studied' any of this kind of thing - I operate purely from an ordinary sense of perception and deduction.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    1:48pm
    Oh - I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that I know nobody who is a 'dole bludger' - there are some un- and under-employed around, but the rest do the best they can with often limited opportunities.
    Alexii
    4th Jun 2017
    3:07pm
    Actually, I don't know any dole bludgers.
    Ferdy
    31st May 2017
    11:56am
    I agree with him whole hardheartedly. Politicians of all flavours are creating a nation of dependence instead of independence. I am a migrant who has lived in Australia for over (50) years. I am (77) now, still working (running a small business) and proud that I am not dependent on a pension. The Government owes me nothing as i am able bodied and still have a sharp brain. In my career, as an employee, I was made redundant twice. I did not go on welfare, but took any job that came my way, even delivering junk mail (fantastic side benefit - kept me physically fit). I am so grateful to this country that I am prepared to pickup a gun to defend it if I have to, even at (77).
    Lookfar
    31st May 2017
    1:24pm
    Ferdy, there are the occasional persons, who by sheer will power overcome all obstacles, you may be one such, but to expect all who don't have your particular blessing of the gods, (not that you can admit that or you might change for the better) is just stupid.
    musicveg
    31st May 2017
    11:23pm
    The opportunities you had Ferdy for the last 50 years and now not available. Jobs are scares in many areas. 10 people minimum apply for each job, that leaves at least nine missing out on a job. We need job creation.
    MICK
    31st May 2017
    11:59am
    Tudge might want to remove the silver plated pole from his rear end before attacking the dole bludgers.
    What about a discussion of the 'jobs' which do not exist. There are 10 applicants for every job which highlights this attack as politically motivated where the mentally challenged fail to see the underlying problem.
    I might give Tudge some support in cleaning up the bottom of the heap if he focused equally at the top where excessive pay, corruption, rorts and rules for the rich reign supreme. Until he addresses these he needs to push the pole further along.
    pedro the swift
    31st May 2017
    12:36pm
    Typical rubbish from this gov. Our manufacturing jobs have been shipped offshore,call centres have gone off shore, huge job losses everywhere and they talk about getting jobs. I'm sure most people on welfare would love a job if one was available.
    Do we want to become a nation of waiters and barmen/persons.
    The gov (both sides) have not got a clue on how to generate jobs. Why do we still have backpackers willing to pick fruit etc and very few aussies want to do this. Country pubs are staffed by backpackers1 why not locals? Pollies have no real vision past the next election. Why, in the 21st Century do we not have an all weather highway around Australia. Our roads are basically rubbish built over goattracks. C'mon pollies show some vision and look 20 years ahead not the next three.
    AutumnOz
    31st May 2017
    4:10pm
    I know of several young people who would go and pick fruit but all these jobs are reserved for people on the 457 visas to provide jobs for overseas people.
    It is part of the Free Trade Agreements unfortunately.
    Our kids are being denied the opportunity of a job for no good reason I can see. Rural kids haven't a chance as most employers have a contract with suppliers - this is wrong and should be stopped not just the the silly things (e.g. alpaca shepherd) that were thrown off the 457 via list earlier this year.
    musicveg
    31st May 2017
    11:34pm
    Yes I would like to see the end of 457 visas, I know of a local job in a shop that has an English girl working and she is here on a visa because she told me that she has to leave Australia every 6 months to come back. Most likely working cash in hand at a lower rate then what the owner of shop has to pay an Australian. Farm owners always say Australian youth don't want to pick fruit but it is more likely that they prefer backpackers because it is cheaper to pay them a temporary job wage than a permanent.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:18am
    Hmm - looking at buying a motor home - one advertised was because the English girl had 'taken on a job' in Sydney and would not be traveling any more.
    musicveg
    1st Jun 2017
    1:09am
    No she is living with her Australian boyfriend.
    pedro the swift
    31st May 2017
    12:36pm
    Typical rubbish from this gov. Our manufacturing jobs have been shipped offshore,call centres have gone off shore, huge job losses everywhere and they talk about getting jobs. I'm sure most people on welfare would love a job if one was available.
    Do we want to become a nation of waiters and barmen/persons.
    The gov (both sides) have not got a clue on how to generate jobs. Why do we still have backpackers willing to pick fruit etc and very few aussies want to do this. Country pubs are staffed by backpackers1 why not locals? Pollies have no real vision past the next election. Why, in the 21st Century do we not have an all weather highway around Australia. Our roads are basically rubbish built over goattracks. C'mon pollies show some vision and look 20 years ahead not the next three.
    Lookfar
    31st May 2017
    5:50pm
    Pedro, I know several Australians, black and white, hate being on the dole but despite good employment records are missing out season after season due to untried backpackers being so much cheaper.
    Everything else you say is true but back packers get away with destroying our jobs through lying, as do their employers, - who don't have to pay any taxes, insurance, super-annuation, etc. on "nonexistent, no name" backpackers. From acecdotes, the backpackers are slower, damage the trees, try to predate on the women pickers, and then are just gone.- Bad for the work environment, bad for local businesses that would have had the money spent by the Australian workers who live there.
    Growers are often greedy for every dollar, - which is why they go so readily to poisonous pesticides to increase their crop, and ignore witholding periods for same as the backpackers don't know.
    KSS
    31st May 2017
    8:33pm
    Funny Lookfar Autumnoz was blaming 457 visa holders for the same thing.
    Eddy
    1st Jun 2017
    9:54am
    457 visas are a curse on those wanting a job. I have heard, 2nd hand from an existing employee, of a large multinational company that sacked their Australian distribution centre workforce (about 70 workers, warehouse persons, fork lift drivers etc) to employ workers from India on 457 visas. The reason, the 457 visa holders are on individual contracts on a lower rate of pay, no unionisation and no penalty rates for overtime and weekend work. While 457 visas, as a short term solution to skill shortages in this country, was not a bad idea less than scrupulous businesspeople have shamelessly exploited 457 visas for profit.
    Adrianus
    1st Jun 2017
    10:15am
    Eddy, you don't think you are a little quick to label people as "less than scrupulous businesspeople"?
    If you had 3 quotes to do a job around the house would you take the low priced quote? Would you then consider yourself "less than scrupulous"?
    Europe has a much bigger problem with worker migration.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:43pm
    Many small business people are as much in the 'know' about the social and economic malaise of this nation as those 'at the bottom' doing it hardest.

    It is only the numbah crunchahs and big businesses, with no soul whatsoever, that behave rapaciously and immorally and only as legally as they are required. I will add that this is yet another reason for government to never be viewed as a 'business' when it is not.

    So let us draw a clear line between the rapists and one other set of the 'common folk', who, in many cases, are doing it just as hard. the number of small business that fail is a clear indicator of that - but 'big business' is never allowed to fail - the government will bail it out when it forks up big time, using YOUR money.
    Eddy
    1st Jun 2017
    4:42pm
    Sorry Frank, I guess I am infected with the tendency of some people on this forum to label anyone on Social Security benefits as 'bludgers' or similar. Besides I did not label all businesspeople as 'less than scrupulous' only those that misuse, then exploit, 457 visas.
    Anyway thank you for at least reading and commenting on my contribution, even if you do not agree with it.
    Dee
    31st May 2017
    12:39pm
    Very appropriate that this was announced at a $300 lunch! What a terrible lot our pillows are now!
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:19am
    What ever happened to the salmon mousse when you need it?
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:44pm
    **reference to Monty Python's "Meaning of Life"... anyone? anyone?**
    floss
    31st May 2017
    12:40pm
    Yes Mr. Sludge your party has caused the unemployment problem with tour dumb greed is good policy.Dumb immigration policy , dumb sell off of public services , dumb free trade agreements. YOUR WHOLE PARTY IS DUMB.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:45pm
    According to Mr Tudge, the principle behind the Coalition’s policies is “the best form of welfare is a job, and everything should be geared towards supporting capable people into work wherever possible”.

    Show me that horizon of jobs!! (apologies to Pirates of The Caribbean - this is Pirates of the Current Aeon)...
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:46pm
    As a pensioner, BTW - I would be happy to accept a job in this lavishly overflowing with milk and honey jobs market going the rounds these days - I've got renos to do and a few other projects and could do with a little of the ready..... so show me that jobs horizon!!
    floss
    31st May 2017
    12:44pm
    Have to agree with your comments George.
    Sundays
    31st May 2017
    12:45pm
    Well he's right. Over time welfare dependency can suck the life out of people especially when there are so many applicants for every available position. Having a mantra of jobs and growth doesn't make it happen. Rather than getting tough on job seekers, create some work for them first
    ex PS
    31st May 2017
    3:40pm
    That makes complete sense, if there are not enough jobs to go round, you can't blame people for having one. Time to stop repeating meaningless slogans and actually do something to solve the problem.
    musicveg
    31st May 2017
    11:40pm
    I agree put the jobs out there for the unemployed and see how many remain vacant for long. Stop blaming the unemployed for their situation, it is not an easy life being unemployed, and those who don't want to work will always turn to crime if they have to which is already effecting the community especially small business who cannot afford the security to protect their premises from thieves.
    John from Perth
    31st May 2017
    12:53pm
    Politicians are to dumb to see the future. Unemployment will increase massively in the future.
    AI will take away millions of jobs world wide. The only thing that is permanent in the future is change. From memory, I think it was Adolf Huxley wrote in a book (back in 1987) that in the future it would be compulsory for all people to work two years of their life.

    We need politicians to create a financial system for the future. You cannot just keep taking money of the poor. The only employment that will increase then is the Police Force.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:05am
    Aldus Huxley - not Adolf - that was Hitler.

    Politicians have zero vision beyond their next pay packet, their paid for lifestyle, and getting re-elected.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:57am
    Damn - Aldous Huxley...
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:58am
    I must be getting eyeless in Gaza....
    KSS
    31st May 2017
    12:54pm
    The problem here is that almost all of you did not read what the article reports what Mr Trudge actually said. Almost all of you are putting YOUR words in Mr Trudge's mouth.

    I cannot find even one sentence where he criticises the PEOPLE on welfare. He DOES criticise the welfare SYSTEM and even admits that the SYSTEM has failed some people. And he IS right when he says "Over time, welfare dependence sucks the life out of people and can diminish their capability.”

    In your rush to condemn him you are not reading or understand exactly what is being said. Climbing up and down your soap-boxes to get on your high horses at least provides some form of exercise I suppose even if it is just the fingers bashing away on your keyboards. But then that is par for the course here isn't it?
    Sundays
    31st May 2017
    1:05pm
    Have another read KSS, Tudge wants to change the system by introducing more punitive measures for People on Welfare! Sure, there are dole bludgers but also many who would love a job but there aren't any!
    KSS
    31st May 2017
    1:14pm
    He wants to change THE SYSTEM Sundays you say so yourself!

    And I have absolutely NO problem with supporting those who genuinely need support and not supporting those who don't. Lie and cheat your way onto welfare, expect to get caught and punished. Do your very best to maximise every opportunity offered to get off welfare, expect to be supported to do just that. No problem.
    MICK
    31st May 2017
    1:33pm
    Great news KSS. Tell this pariah to change the welfare at the top as well. No interest there of course. No intention of changing the obscene pay packets of CEOS and Boards. No intention of getting the top to pay taxes. No intention of having criminal behaviour better monitored or forcing the courts to hand down custodial sentences which are in proportion to the crimes.
    Your only interest, as is this government, is to go after the bottom. The Australian way of life is dead and what is left is the parasites preying on those who cannot afford high priced Senior counsels to get them off.
    It's great when you have your own government isn't it?
    Lookfar
    31st May 2017
    4:12pm
    KSS, yes he did blame the System, but gave no alernative except to make life painful to those who are the victims of the System, what sort of sick attitude is that?
    Lookfar
    31st May 2017
    4:13pm
    KSS, yes he did blame the System, but gave no alernative except to make life painful to those who are the victims of the System, what sort of sick attitude is that?
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:05am
    You got the Trudge bit right....
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:47pm
    Oh - we offer the likes of Tudge the same gentle consideration as he offers others - if we have wronged him .... tough luck!
    Rosret
    31st May 2017
    1:42pm
    Look - excluding the OAP he is right in a lot of ways.
    When I was young it was immoral to rort the system and unless you were in dire straights. You just didn't go begging for government dollars. Now it feels like an expectation.
    Have 10 children - the government will pay more than any salary. Surf the coastline - the government will provide. Go on the disability pension and demand taxi fares to and from work.
    Our network of friends and support systems have gone and been replaced by a social expectation.
    I am all for helping those in need however I am very well aware that a lot of people have worked out how to fleece the system.
    MICK
    31st May 2017
    2:00pm
    I agree with you but AS ALWAYS this is aimed at the bottom of society whilst the top can do as it pleases. That is what ticked me off. It is totally unfair and the top end would be outraged were they to come under attack in a similar fashion.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:09am
    You're beating that minority drum, Rosret..... VERY few Social Security recipients behave as you say. You can't surf all day and not fulfill the requirements to get your Unemployment Benefit. You don't just 'go' on disability pension - you have to go through the hoops with Colonel C'Link holding the whips... and disabled people can get assistance with fares to go to work.

    31st May 2017
    2:59pm
    $300 per head for the luncheon Mr Tudge spoke at, this says it all so no need to comment.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:49pm
    Again - where is it when you need it?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m1SXSdeWVY

    31st May 2017
    3:23pm
    I wonder what this politician-clown has to say about people like me who necessarily are on a Disability Support Pension. I don't want to be, but my health (I have over a dozen chronic health conditions and disabilities) precludes me from gaining employment. The pension pays a pittance (I am barely surviving): with Rent Assistance (which doesn't cover even half the rent), I get $1020 per fortnight. 40% of that goes in rent; at least another $55 per fortnight goes on the phone and computer internet; at least as much again goes on paying for compulsory medication; and with whatever's left I've got to buy food etc. Yet these parasitic bloodsucking politicians live high on the hog courtesy of tax-payers - I paid a lot of tax myself over the years - and then retire on ridiculous pensions. It's all totally obscene!
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:51pm
    Know how you feel - I run to a dozen or so disabilities.. can't walk far without agony - but I still would be happy to take on a job driving a bus or whatever...
    Ferdy
    31st May 2017
    3:50pm
    Lookfar - I am glad I have so much will power - why? I created it myself by refusing to be a dependent. I have had my fair share of ill health - cancers twice - and fought it every time. The people who should be looked after are for example the Disabled and deserving. If there were more people like me, there will be enough for the disabled. There are plenty of people who do not deserve welfare - just look around - walk with your eyes open "Lookfar".
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:11am
    Before you go any further - perhaps you could explain to us what you include as 'welfare'....
    Lookfar
    31st May 2017
    4:23pm
    Dim, sure there are a few bludgers at the bottom, and also quite a few at the top, living on their parents wealth, the ones at the botton do little harm, but the ones at the top, filled with that sick sense of 'entitlement' do huge amounts of harm, as they have the monetary power to so do and no morals at all to constrain them. - they are the ones to be disciplined, not the lost drunkards.
    Jim
    31st May 2017
    6:37pm
    I have no idea how many people at the top are collecting benifits or are you alluding to them not paying tax? As for the lost drunkards I made no accusation of anyone being a drunkard only that they were at the club regularly, they certainly drank as much as I did often being in a shout with me, and also enjoying a punt as much as I did, I commented that I didn't know how they managed it, I often worked 60 hours or more a week and it seemed that I wasn't any better off, of course I obviously was better off as I was able to buy my own house and with my super I have a comfortable retirement, but I still see one of these guy's at the club, still having his beer and a punt,
    Adrianus
    31st May 2017
    4:38pm
    I agree, sip from the poison chalice at your own peril.
    Lookfar
    31st May 2017
    5:17pm
    Frank, for most people it would be sip or die, but many Australians will fight rather than die, does Trudge advocate social anarchy? - he should go and live in Port Moresby for a while, although he probably could not adapt so would die. His rigid Neo Libealism is a religion, founded on total selfishness. - Why would you support him? - maybe Mick is right, you are being paid, why else could you support such lack of morality and commom sense?
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:13am
    His rigid Neo Liberalism is a DISEASE OF THE MIND.

    Fixed for you - first fix free - future fixes at consultant rates...
    archer
    31st May 2017
    7:07pm
    One job for every 10 applicants. Well done liberals !!!
    Watto
    31st May 2017
    7:48pm
    3. Agree. Already coming

    Still waiting Mick on details of your comment above.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:23am
    Please explain? Which comment? The one about the top getting too much... what's to explain? They only pay tax on post-deduction of items that most don't get income, and then whine when the bill comes in that they are carrying the country.

    If carrying the country means taking long lunches, driving around in a free car, and writing off all your living expenses, and then going to the regatta on a weekend or sitting in the corporate box - sign me up!

    I'll Lift my share....
    Oldman Roo
    31st May 2017
    8:16pm
    The running of a country is no different to managing a business or personal affairs . The cause of the problem starts at the top and successive Governments in Australia have mismanaged the economy and failed to provide the environment for the country to prosper . Our leaders were always too preoccupied with self interest and lost sight of reality .
    So suddenly it has to be turned into a blame game and as usual with the LNP the poor and low income earners become the sacrificial lamb .
    I was around when this country had a thriving manufacturing industry and everybody had a job and had money . What a dream that is for many in these days and it all had to be destroyed by Politicians who wanted a world without tariffs by opening the floodgates to cheap Imports and could not care less about the dire consequences for the average workers that became unemployed.
    As they say , the chickens come home to roost and the very people responsible should be the Number one target to foot the Bill for the mess they created .
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:27am
    Actually it is - you run a business to make a profit and pay shareholders - you run a country to make ends meet and ensure the best outcome for all, and the population are the shareholders.

    In a business you borrow to make more money through sales - in government you borrow to meet your requirements when you have a shortfall, and your only means of recouping capital and interest of a loan is taxation.

    That's why bankers should never be allowed near Parliament, especially 'merchant bankers' who borrow low to lend high and reap the profit from the difference. You can;t do that in governments.

    The comparison of government with business is a false one and was installed by the Liberals years ago to suit their own self-serving agenda of using taxpayers money to fund 'business opportunities', such as childcare, toll roads and so forth.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    3:01am
    If you like to extend the metaphor of government shareholders being the people - you also need to look at dividends going out to shareholders at the same rate.....

    How much is MY stake in the nation worth? And how much do I get in dividends? How is my shareholding determined so as to ascertain how many shares I have on which to receive dividend?

    Are they franked dividends, or do I have to pay tax on them (again)?

    Sorry - government is NOT a business.... and never will be - and it is high time business people were removed from it.
    musicveg
    31st May 2017
    11:54pm
    I am getting sick of reading about 'welfare' problems, why don't they just fix it sensibly and create jobs, why do they keep making life harder for those already struggling, how is that going to give them any confidence if they keep getting beaten down? If you cannot afford rent, you become homeless and then won't get a job. If you can't afford to eat healthy it effects your mental health and many will turn to something that makes them feel better or covers up their pain. How many people actually have a chat to those who are unemployed to find out what their obstacles are, certainly not the politicians.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    1:54pm
    You can't help laughing when a 'minister for human services' carries on about 'the best welfare being a job', while doing not one thing to actually bring about jobs... other than pay a few private firms to attack anyone suspected of receiving an 'overpayment' by dubious standards.

    Where are these jobs? Bring on the conga line about fruit picking - somebody put that one to bed yesterday about the preference for visa holders and back-packers who can be exploited and have no rights.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:35am
    Let us then place to Mr Fudge a challenge........

    Let him tour the nation and broadcast in advance that he will be speaking at specific times and at specific places to the unemployed..... and he will explain to them all the reasoning that goes into his Party's concept o0f 'welfare' and how its recipients should be treated, and he will do so up close and personal and in plain view of them all.

    If he can do that without wearing a bullet proof vest (like the Coward John Howard did when addressing gun owners on why he was about to rob them) - he will have proven that his Party's ideas and policy are sound and reasonable.

    If he survives - I'm sure he will have received a solid lesson in reality for a change.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    1:56pm
    If he is killed on this tour - he will still have provided a useful service to the nation by allowing the voice of the people affected to be heard loudly and clearly.

    In the interests of the nation and its leaders - everyone is expendable..... and I'm sure his party will hold an annual diner to remember him and his great work.....
    Oars
    1st Jun 2017
    7:06am
    Although his comments have been "dramatised" by the media- he is dead right. The welfare system should be to help thehelpless, not the sneaks. The rest of the world see lil' ol' Ozz as being a great place to get free welfare, medical etc. These sneaks rarely pay back the community inany way, just bludge. I tend to agree with the Minister, although I am sure his words have been twisted by this media -out of context- as usual.
    Lookfar
    1st Jun 2017
    8:53am
    Oars, you are just repeating old cliches based on ignorance and prejudice, you would be more helpful to engage your brain before opening your mouth, every sigle thing you have said is incorrect, and reading over the comments in this discussion and others on YLC should have given you every chance to become informed, perhaps you can't change your understanding to cope with reality, you could get out more and talk to others than those who let you get away with such nonsense.
    Triss
    1st Jun 2017
    10:15am
    Sorry, I can't agree with an arrogant, overpaid politician who gloats over stopping welfare whilst taking taxpayer money to stuff his overfed face on a $300 lunch. Many people [perhaps the majority] have to stretch $300 to feed themselves for a week or more.
    As far as I'm concerned that kind of arrogance verges on the sociopathic.
    BTW, I'm not a bleeding heart, I've worked since I was 15 and never been on the dole, but Tudge needs to look four or five steps further than he has been looking, people will not allow themselves to starve. We could find ourselves with a lot more to worry about than a few dole bludgers.
    Adrianus
    1st Jun 2017
    10:32am
    Triss, I take it you are in support of dole bludgers?
    I say rules are rules. Think of your fellow Australian's and do what you can to improve things for all Australians.
    Oldman Roo
    1st Jun 2017
    11:11am
    Frank , And I take it you are in support of Government that is responsible for the large number of unemployed ? You sound like the Government that is shirking it,s responsibility for the mess by calling them dole bludgers .
    Triss
    1st Jun 2017
    12:00pm
    No, Frank, I don't support dole bludgers and if you read my piece you would realise that I was thinking about Australians, all Australians.
    Politicians love basking in the media spotlight spouting about welfare bludgers refusing to go for jobs when CentreLink sends people out to vacancies which need experience and skills they don't have.
    Perhaps Tudge could go back to Canberra and insist that all the ex pollies who are receiving taxpayer-funded pensions and running companies as well should give employment to these people. Look back at the Howard government and count all the firms that closed their doors to take their companies overseas leaving thousands without jobs at very short notice.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:55pm
    Frank - where are these dole bludgers? Lining up for a shot at a maybe one in ten chance of a part-time casual job? Get over it.

    You could start by stopping the use of demeaning terms to describe those thrown out of work or never allowed a chance to get in.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    12:58pm
    I've already suggested that Tudge tour the high-unemployment spots of the nation and speak up close and person with the unemployed and explain to them how they are bludgers on the system and won't work.

    he is, after all, the Minister responsible - let him come down from his ivory tower and actually tell these people how to get off their arses.

    Would make some interesting viewing of the national news, methinks. Thing about coming down from ivory towers for the Lord and Master class is that the peasants tend to be very hostile and armed with pitchforks, flaming brands and well-oiled guillotines. He might come home with holes other than those in his feet.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:02pm
    While we're on the subject - who's covering his costs to attend this $300 a head dinner?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Economic_Development_of_Australia

    "It is financed by around 700 members drawn from business, universities, governments and community groups"

    hmmmmmm.....

    http://www.ceda.com.au/about/our-people/leadership-team

    Your homework is to pursue this and find out exactly who these people are and what their affiliations are. No spoon-feeding at the free university... the best student welfare is working for the answers... (snuckles)...
    Adrianus
    1st Jun 2017
    2:20pm
    ROBERT, I was quoting Triss. How come you didn't attack Triss for using the term "dole bludger? ha ha ha ha
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    3:29pm
    Triss is entitled to the odd mistake - it's not a part of the disease with him/her. If he/she'd put inverted commas around the term - 'dole bludgers' it would have been fine.

    Remember Naom Chomsky - words have power - though in politics I think it is turds have power.....

    Still waiting on a clear definition we can all work from...
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    10:02pm
    Get with the program, Knarf....

    1st Jun 2017
    10:28am
    I support any move to enforce the regulations for those getting benefits from government. This latest crack down will not affect the large majority who do the right thing but will weed out those who are gaming the system. For those who want to claim that what Tudge is doing is unfair, please lobby your local member to change the legislation so that those who are rorting the system can continue what they are doing.
    Adrianus
    1st Jun 2017
    10:34am
    Old Man, our gaols are full of welfare rorters, but there's always room for more.
    Anonymous
    1st Jun 2017
    10:50am
    Frank, what time did your issue of 31 May arrive in your inbox? Mine came today at 4.31am.
    Triss
    1st Jun 2017
    12:43pm
    It might be a matter of interpretation, Old Man, have you thought of that. Get people all hyped up about welfare bludgers, remember that's a general term, no hard surveys have been done, and agree they should have their benefits stopped and then the next time it will be age pensioners.
    Our knee jerk government seems to have forgotten it signed human rights treaties which contain a right to social security and a guarantee that that right is upheld without discrimination.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    1:01pm
    "gaols are full of welfare rorters"

    Maybe you'd better explain that one to us, Pilgrim. You mean the Poor Courts are doing their job of robbing the pockets of the poor?

    What ARE you talking about? Our prisons are filled with people convicted of some crime (real or not, justly or not, by the rule of law or not - another issue) - not those on social security, although the prejudice still exists in some extremely narrow-minded places that anyone without a job or not a local is no good and must be slammered. (and they wonder why country towns are dying)....
    Adrianus
    1st Jun 2017
    2:22pm
    ROBERT, your unconditional devotion to dole bludgers is admirable in a small way but very unpatriotic and certainly not up to the standard of a model citizen. :)
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:34pm
    Define these 'dole bludgers' for us.... give us a clear definition to work from...... or on....
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    2:34pm
    Define these 'dole bludgers' for us.... give us a clear definition to work from...... or on....
    Lookfar
    1st Jun 2017
    3:13pm
    Dear, 'Old Man', I understand your concern that regulations must be enforced, but these "clamp downs" seem to happen every few months, the Govt throws quite a lot of money at doing these exercises, but never seems to achieve very much, nor do they learn to stop "it", one suspects it is just a publicity exercise to push their Neo-Liberal agenda, that proclaims only the rich are good, that Govt should not continue to maintain a 'social network' , as the poor are manifestly unsuitable to live because they are poor, and then you get Frank, pushing the old "Dole Bludger' button, an invention, with nothing behind it but a ploy to whip up resentment and hate, - I could just as easily say, "the filthy Rich," "The Evil 1%." etc. - it is no good just speaking in Cliches, - I appreciate you are trying to present a reasoned argument, but it seems to me to be based on an assumption that there is this enormous mob of unemployed that despite that they have lost their jobs to automation, overseas workers, sourcing overseas, preference of employers for young staff, (ie discrimination against older workers) and various other factors, including Govt Policy of maintaining an unemployed amount of App. 5% of workers, some how if you whip them to within a breath of death they will find a job, never mind that there are almost none, or at least they just try to blame the unemployed for being unemployed, accusing them of slacking, not applying for 20 jobs a day when there are no openings, - it is all so judgemental and anti human, one needs to stand back and look, and ask questions, - are the Rich qualified to run the world, - they destroyed the Roman Empire, are they any wiser now? - is Australia going to be better of with it's social network destroyed, thousands or hundreds of thousands starving in the streets, (or rioting),- all the money going to the rich? - I would suggest no, that is a War of All against All scenario, there will be no winners of such, it will bring down the Bright Spark of human evolution.
    TREBOR
    1st Jun 2017
    9:56pm
    Frank - for your premise to stand, everyone must first accept that they are 'dole bludgers', and to do that you must first provide a working definition of what a 'dole bludger' is, before you can say I unconditionally have devotion to them or indeed anything else.

    Then we can argue over whether or not your basic premise - that I am devoted to dole bludgers - has any merit.
    Adrianus
    2nd Jun 2017
    10:11am
    ROBERT, you're being silly. Everyone knows what a "dole bludger" is. I've never used this term before and now that I have, it feels rather good. I'm all for free speech , it's so invigorating.
    ROBERT for your benefit a "dole bludger" is a fraudster, a person who acquires a welfare benefit which they should not otherwise receive on legal or ethical grounds.
    In the past financial year 20,062 Newstart recipients had their payments cancelled for travelling overseas. Many hard working Australians are either too time poor or cash poor to have a overseas holiday. Why should they foot the bill for those bums.
    Lookfar
    5th Jun 2017
    11:56am
    Frank, there are many kinds of bludgers, ie people who don't pull their weight, financially, emotionally, intellectually, etc. - often they don't realise it, eg men who go off to work in some meaningless public service wasteaway, and come home expecting their wife to do everything for them, even sacrifice her own career. As we have a mandated level of unemployment, those on the dole are not bludging, they are doing their job of suffering to keep the rich as rich as possible, indeed it is more normally the rich who are bludging, helpless useless scourges on the surface of the earth they so often are, but in your case you are bludging in your refusal to define "dole bludger" and like any lazy person getting a kick out your small dishonesty.
    What you are hoping is that by using an inappropriate adjective in tandem with the word dole, you can define a whole bunch of decent people that you can cowardly kick and blame for shortcomings that more likely reside in you.
    That unemployment benefita are not payable if the unemployed person has to fly overseas for whatever reason is simply social security law, not a justification for being a definition bludger.
    Adrianus
    6th Jun 2017
    8:41am
    What a load of BS Lookfar.
    I'm not the person you think I am, you are the person you think I am. :)

    5th Jun 2017
    3:32pm
    I agree that Australia's welfare system is ''poison''. It was designed that way on purpose. It was designed to demonize the disadvantaged, keep the poor down, and make it as difficult as it is possible to make it for anyone disadvantaged to lift themselves up. This government is reinforcing the message that those who have had limited opportunities or who faced major life challenges that left them jobless, sick or disabled are third class citizens and must ever be treated as such - and if they dare to try to strive, the system will ensure their struggle is ten times harder than it need be and their chances of success will be limited.

    I agree that the few real bludgers should be taken to task, but the problem is that nothing in the proposed ''crackdown'' targets the real bludgers and manipulators.
    Fairness
    6th Jun 2017
    3:15pm
    His thinking hasn't advanced since the treatment of lepers long ago who were stigmatised as "unclean". Taxes we PAID were always intended to cover periods of unemployment and/or pensions as appropriate. Whilst none of us can be sure how long we inhabit this earth, we can do without intimidation and/or discrimination when we reach pension age!!


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