Just doing his job

Wayne Swan sparked outrage by claiming that ‘cranks and crazies’ had infiltrated the US Republican Party.

Just doing his job

Wayne Swan sparked outrage amongst the opposition, his own party colleagues and US politicians by claiming that ‘cranks and crazies’ had infiltrated the US Republican Party and posed a threat to the world’s economy.

Opposition foreign affairs spokeswoman Julie Bishop said Swan’s remarks were a “calculated insult” against Mitt Romney’s running mate, congressman Paul Ryan. But the Government hit back saying the Treasurer was simply doing his job.

What Wayne Swan actually said was “Let's be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world's biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over a part of the Republican Party.”

Julia Gillard has backed the comments made by Wayne Swan saying he was simply doing his job. “The strength of the American economy matters to the global economy,” she said. “The Treasurer has been making appropriate comments today about potential risks for the global economy and consequently for the Australian economy. You would expect him to be doing that.”

However, former Western Australian Labor premier Geoff Gallop lashed out at the Treasurer’s comments, saying they were “absolutely wrong” and were one of the “silly little political games” that are undermining Labor’s gravitas.

Read more from The Australian.

Opinion - Should Wayne hold his tongue?

As Treasurer, Wayne Swan is surely entitled to have his say on world economic matters; we do have a global economy after all. But it appears his latest comments have been taken out of context, or have they? Is Wayne Swan only saying what others are thinking?

The Treasurer’s comments were based on the findings of a study by Citigroup, which likened the legislated US budget cuts to the “policy missteps” of the 1930s. Under budget cuts, taxes are due to rise and spending set to reduce around December. The study has found that such measures will take five percentage points off US growth next year. In an economy so precariously balanced, surely this is a tad cavalier?

So, with America likely to be heading towards another recession and the global economy so reliant on a strong US economy, Wayne Swan’s comments don’t seem so outrageous. Perhaps he could have chosen his words better, or perhaps others could have listened to, and understood their meaning before clambering to comment.

Should Wayne Swan hold his tongue or does he have the right to comment on global economic issues?





    COMMENTS

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    davewatto
    24th Sep 2012
    12:17pm
    As a Treasurer who has managed to turn a large surplus into a large deficit he is hardly in a position to lecture others but, given that he is Treasurer, he is entitled to share his views on economic matters but not insult members of a political party in another country.
    Michael
    24th Sep 2012
    5:55pm
    Redistributing our large surplus saved us from recession and was the right thing to do, we should be happy it was available.
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    12:25pm
    Well done Wayne Swan. It is about time people in high places said what the battlers are all thinking, but won't be heard.
    "Cranks and Crazies" is still too generous and as true Aussies, we should be calling a spade a spade. These people are selfish, greedy, bigoted, racist and self serving nasty people and yes, they could again bring down our financial markets from which most of us are still trying to recover.
    The same sort of people caused the GFC, but nearly all of them are now MUCH richer than they were before, while most of the millions of battlers in the world may never recover.
    We should all be speaking out about these people and be grateful that one of us who is in a powerful position has the guts to do so and not tugging the forelock of these people that one certain ex-P.M. so enjoyed doing to the cost of most of us.
    fish head
    24th Sep 2012
    12:36pm
    If the cap fits, wear it. Fish head
    student
    24th Sep 2012
    12:40pm
    as a student of International Politics, I have to agree with Treasurer Swan. Even by American standards the Tea Party is strange.
    Thai Traveller
    24th Sep 2012
    11:10pm
    How very true. That Tea Party is about as stable as Pauline Hanson's party. What they are preaching would take their country back many years, and drag ours with it!
    AmandaR
    3rd Oct 2012
    6:49pm
    I agree.
    Boof
    24th Sep 2012
    12:57pm
    That is a rather "Blanket Statement" Some are like that but not all of them. The parties out here are the same. Not all have the same opinions in the same party, but are forced to agree with the polocies or get the boot or be dealt with by the party whip. Have you ever heard of the "Ugly American" when travelling. What about the "Ugly Australian", who are becoming more prevelent, overseas, as time goes by.
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    1:10pm
    That "some" have taken over the Republican Party and making government in America impossible. Far from being "forced to agree" they are the ones forcing others to agree and they have the power and the money to do so.
    They have the whole world's economies at ransom for their own selfish, greedy intentions. Let's hope that there is an American Republican who has Wayne Swan's guts and gets rid of that scourge.
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    10:23am
    The Tea Party is founded on elite fundamentalist religious and political views. Grateful is right, the elite are very rich and powerful, and self-centered. The Tea Party members help to make the gap wider between the haves and the have-nots. People like Bill Gates do a lot for the less fortunate and should be applauded. I think Pres. Obama had good intentions for America and the world but the right is very powerful (and disjointed!) and has stifled his equality drive.
    Nikolai
    24th Sep 2012
    1:13pm
    What an embarrassment this government is and particularly Swann, how can he criticise anyone else when he has wrecked the Australian economy, hopefully when he and Gillard are booted out at the next election one can just imagine the mess whoever takes over will have to sort out
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    1:29pm
    How come the reputed "experts" as recently as today, totally contradict your statement Nikolai? If you are not an economist, then I suggest that you think twice before making such broad brush defamatory statements.
    Take a good look at what is happening under the new Liberal governments in Qld, NSW and Victoria and that is just a sample of what us battlers can expect from a Tony Abbott led government. And how did the former government whose economy you say the current government has destroyed, achieve that situation? By introducing a 10% GST that they told nobody about before their election, not providing any extra services to the needy, cutting education and health spending, while giving huge tax savings for millionaires and pocketing billions from the miners to give those handouts to their mates and puting the rest in the bank doing nobody any good.
    Tell me one elderly battler who benefited under a Howard/Costello government?
    Do yourself and us a big favour and start praying that someone has the guts to depose Tony Abbott beforehand.
    Jen
    24th Sep 2012
    1:36pm
    Couldn't have said it better myself Grateful. I nearly lost my coffee when I read Nikolai's post.
    ozimarco
    24th Sep 2012
    1:56pm
    Not sure which alternative universe you inhabit, Nikolai. Swan actually saved our economy instead of wrecking it by applying stimulus when it was needed. Our AAA-rated economy is in rude health. At 10% of GDP, our debt is very low by international standards. As the world situation improves, we'll move back into surplus. All is good. There will be no mess to clean up.
    smithjj
    24th Sep 2012
    2:33pm
    Swan may not have actually wrecked the economy but he has presided over a great deal of waste." Grateful" certainly exists in total fog of imagined persecution; John Howard, as everyone but Grateful knows, stated his intention of introducing the GST prior to his second election campaign, a degree of honesty certainly not exhibited by Gillard.
    Smee
    24th Sep 2012
    2:56pm
    What is happening in Qld, NSW, Vic and to some extent in Tassie is that responsible governments are making the hard but unpopular decisions to try and repair years of financial mis-management by all the Swannie-ites or this world. Two things however:
    1. Someone better that Abbott to lead the next government this time next year, if not earlier.
    2. This is going to hurt but, "you done a good thing Swanny" over there is the good 'ole US of A. Start pulling the Greens in line the same way.
    jennyya
    24th Sep 2012
    2:59pm
    I think you are living in a dreamworld ozimarco. All is good, eh? My grandchild and her flock will be in debt for years to come to pay for Swan's and Gillard's errors. Forget the world situation. Just because someone says"jump off the cliff"" - would you? I think you might after you got your head out of the clouds. Good one Nikolai and Smittjj - right on the money - what's left of it!!!
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    3:41pm
    jennyya, can you please tell us how this government is at fault because your grandchild and her flock will be in debt for years. I think that you listen too much too those shock jocks and read those editorials without doing your own research. Open your own eyes and you might see the real light.
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    3:49pm
    Jenna, this is an extract of this mornings assessment of the current budget which you can read in Business Spectator, not in the editorials in the Herald Sun or The Australian.

    The level of net debt reached 10.0 per cent on GDP in 2011-12, 0.4 per cent of GDP higher than expected at budget time with the upward revision due to a valuation effect of the government bonds already on issue. On any international comparison, the government debt levels are very low, a point reflected in the triple-A credit rating from the major ratings agencies.
    Your grandchild and her flock are much better off in Australia than any other country.
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    3:52pm
    And more jenna and others who believe that broad brush negative rhetoric.

    Fiscal policy is being implemented with a clear counter-cyclical bias; that is, moving to deficit in 2008-09 when the economy was threatened with recession, then slowly reducing the deficit as growth returns and, as we will likely see in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook in November, returning the budget to surplus as trend economic growth is locked in.
    It must be sad to just listen to populist drivel instead of doing the hard research yourself.
    jennyya
    24th Sep 2012
    1:16pm
    "The Democrats of America can be likened to our Labor Party so of course Swan is going to call the Republicans "cranks and crazies". Labor loves to name call; that's about the only thing they do well. Wayne Swan should get on with the business of halting Australia's spending and keep his mouth shut about possibly the next ruling party of America. We don't have that many friends in the world that we can start name calling one of our best friends!
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    1:33pm
    With respect jennya, you don't seem to understand who we are talking about. It is not "the Republican Party" it is the Tea Party which has taken over the Republican Party. They are like our Green Party on LSD. Even the Republican party hates them, but, their members have LOTS of money to help the Republicans get elected. Principles!!!???
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    10:31am
    jen, if the Gov. stopped spending do you have any idea of the consequences?? Also politics is not about friends. If you remember a few years ago (under a Lib. Gov) Aus. asked the USA. for help in Timor and was told it was our problem!! Are you saying USA is a 'best friend'?? Treaties are signed everyday that are not binding nor worth the paper they are written on. Politics attracts the elite and there goes the common man's worth.
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    10:33am
    oops sorry, I shortened 'jennyya' to 'jen' not realising there is a 'jen' :) Sorry
    Jen
    24th Sep 2012
    1:31pm
    I absolutely agree with his description of the Republicans and Tea Partyites. I think he was being kind. However, I can see why some people might take offence.

    Of all the brilliant people in the US, politics seems to attract the looniest of the loonies.

    24th Sep 2012
    1:39pm
    I couldnt agree with him more but he could be the one who has to do with Ryan so he should have kept his mouth shut. Student says T Party a queer lot not half as queer as the Greens
    How can he be the greatest treasurer when he has thrown away billions and what should happen is the government will have to sack allot more than Newman
    Did you see that a mine driver cost the Boss 200,000 a year including wages ,housing,superannuation and the same driver cost 10,000 in Mongolia .Swanny those guys are not coming up to our standards,soon we will be going down to theirs as our wages have made the miners screw the Chinese ,now they can get their dirt from Russia and Mongolia over the border
    Michael
    24th Sep 2012
    6:02pm
    Mongolia ? Get real.
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    10:46am
    ogergree, you mean our Greens are in the same league as the Tea Party?? The Tea Party consists of the elite, very rich and very powerful top end of town people who are fundamentalists into the bargain. Our Greens aren't too bad although I fear they may become more like "NO go' Abbott and block all legislation.

    Have you seen the size of those 'Tonka toys' ?? Don't blame the miners/workers for high wages. Do you ascribe to the worker getting a pittance and the owner/shareholders getting obscene dividends? A fair days work for a fair days pay. I hope you are aware that when the miners are able to import o/seas workers, they will not be paid the same rates and benefits of their Aussie counterpart?? There will be a decided imbalance to the cost of production and the profit. You can't compare Aus with Russia or Mongolia.
    AF
    24th Sep 2012
    3:28pm
    responsible governments in NSW, QLD & Vic are making the hard but unpopular decisions to try and repair years of financial mis-management by all the Swannie's of this world. It's hard on us battlers BUT unfortunately every now & again the labour governments get voted in and they mis-manage our money again & again and the ones that vote them IN never seem to learn.
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    4:00pm
    Your just like jennya AF, believing all the populist rhetoric instead of the FACTS, Have a read of Business Spectator this morning, I have quoted a few OFFICIAL excerpts from OFFICIAL Reserve bank figures in Nikolai's post above which might brighten your negative outlook and make you feel less depressed. I'm just wondering how much "help" you received from the Howard government and if you are on the maximum pension like many of us have been forced on to because of Liberal and Republican policies?
    jennyya
    24th Sep 2012
    4:18pm
    You must be a very well read person "Grateful" - however could you answer the following questions for me please. How come so many businesses are going broke these days, how come so many people are complaining that their utility bills are going through the roof, how come my boss cannot afford to give me a raise? How come our borders are open to all and sundry? How come our crime rate is climbing and our old people scared to leave their houses? How come Julia lied to us and will not give a direct answer to questions when interviewed? Could you tell me please, that when John Howard was voted out because "people just wanted a change" he left 20 billion in the kitty and now it is all gone and we have a debt somewhere in the 200 billion mark - is this an untruth? You haven't done the hard yards either - just read some other columnists - many of whom sound to the left. What about the loss of freedom of speech? Our dollar is up because other countries are doing it hard - not that we are so far in front with good policies. I really don't think you can see the forest for the trees!
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    4:37pm
    jenna. Most of your questions are answered by yourself in your last sentence, however, you have drawn the complete opposite conclusion. Our dollar is up BECAUSE our economy is so good and everyone knows that that is having an impact on industries that rely upon a cheaper dollar. Get your facts right about THE cause of of electricity bills going up. And you haven't told us why your grandchild is in debt "because of the government". Boy, oh boy, I won't even try to answer that other garbage. As for Johnny Howard being voted out "because people wanted a change". What a lot of baloney. He was voted out because he was a joke and people had woken up to him. He was the ONLY Prime Minister in our history who lost his OWN SEAT and his successor was kicked out at the very next election!!! "Because people wanted change"!!!
    Sorry, but, I have great pity on you and your unnecessarily depressing view on life. We live in the best country in the world, with the best economy and with a current government that is working hard to improve the lot of genuine battlers. Sad that you are so tormented that you can enjoy these very enviable benefits. And you have a job!! But, you want a raise??? Try living on the pension and see what it is really like to battle, but, we do and are very grateful for what we get.
    Take a Bex and read a good book.
    student
    24th Sep 2012
    7:51pm
    g'donya Grateful, but be careful, you can't put brains in statues :) However, I think Little Johnny was kicked out because the people finally woke to him and his mates.

    As for Jenna not getting a raise .. there could be two reasons:
    1. The business is not run efficiently
    or
    2. nahhhhhhhh, forget this one :)

    ... and before you jump on me jenna, I am only offering an opinion

    I'm afraid jenna's statements :

    "... What about the loss of freedom of speech? Our dollar is up because other countries are doing it hard - not that we are so far in front with good policies..."

    Jenna, about loss of freedom of speech ...Please Explain?? :)
    The Aussie $ is above parody, we have a stable economy and Government. "The Battlers' are doing it tough but still better than under an Abbott Government. The Gillard government is compassionate and has certainly helped the pensioners. (now the whingers will revolt!!!) As for lying ... geez, show me a politician who doesn't. It's called Machiavelianism, but some lie more than others.
    Some people are always the victim too. Unfortunately Grateful, they wont change.
    robin hood
    25th Sep 2012
    2:40pm
    Good one AF you hit the nail on the head
    robin hood
    25th Sep 2012
    2:43pm
    Grateful you are in fairy land
    Grateful
    25th Sep 2012
    7:50pm
    No robin hood, Paradise, Australia!!!
    Watto
    24th Sep 2012
    4:42pm
    Love 'em or hate 'em we need 'em, and it does not help when the "treasurer" and deputy prime minister shoots his mouth off just to big note himself. He is going to look even more foolish if Obama does not win and he has to deal with these people.
    Some people just cannot think past lunch time .
    God , we just have to get rid of this inept government !!
    jennyya
    24th Sep 2012
    4:45pm
    succinctly said Watto!!!!
    student
    24th Sep 2012
    8:00pm
    Hi Watto,
    Obama will get elected. I cringe to think of the looney bin Tea Party getting into power. Dear ol' Matt shoots himself most times but I do think the media is a little unfair on his wife.
    Obama and Gillard ... 2014
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2012
    8:15pm
    Why the hell do we need the USA! They have done nothing for Australia except to steal our trade partners. We have done more for them than vise versa - gave them backing to illegally invade Iraq, so that they could steal their oil; make them trade the oil in US$; murder 600,000 citizens - non combatants; destroyed all infrastructure; and polluted their land.

    The USA are something we can no longer afford.
    Nikolai
    24th Sep 2012
    5:38pm
    Interesting reading - can always pick the labour voters who can only see in one direction as others have stated if the Liberal States are suffering it is de to the year of mismanagemtn and overspending by labour governments - a great example is the big white elephant desalination plant which will be costing Victorias millions for years to come. Incidently Grateful I am living on a pension and know I was a lot better under a Liberal Government and you have to be joking if you believe that Australia is doing ok, the economic crisis is far from over and we have only been spared so far due to the enormnous surplus left by the Liberal Government and now that has been wasted by the current clowns in Canberra heaven help us.
    Michael
    24th Sep 2012
    6:10pm
    Nikolai,
    you only have to go overseas to realise how well we are doing compared with equivalent societies. I don't think you realise just how fortunate we are.
    Michael
    24th Sep 2012
    6:13pm
    Wayne swan has the same right to speak his mind, as do you.
    Grateful
    24th Sep 2012
    7:21pm
    I am not a "Labor voter" Nikolai. I vote for the party that represents the MAJORITY of the people. The Liberals have not done that for the last 14 years, so, I cannot possibly vote for them unless they change their leader and their policies. I simply do NOT believe you when you say that a pensioner was better off under a Liberal government. That is a blatant untruth with ALL recorded evidence proving you WRONG. Gee, you people who believe all the crap that you read in the newspapers and on the radio just make me very angry. You do not know how bleeding lucky you are. Spend a day in a refugee camp and see how well off you are. Get real you ungrateful people. You do not deserve this great country, let others in that would. SHAME.
    student
    24th Sep 2012
    8:04pm
    YAYYYY for Michael and Grateful :)
    Anonymous
    24th Sep 2012
    8:05pm
    What a lot of fooey...Nikolai.

    Talk about one eye.....unbelievable!

    Well said Grateful, to all that you have stated. I will however, comment further on our media which is NOT independent (one of our corporate media masters is an American citizen - Murdoch), they are commercial, corporate owned and will print anything that you are able to PAY for. Yes, they represent the wealthy elite .... they are the wealthy elite! Most news is presented from the wealth elites point of view which is that anything that increases the average persons wealth is bad and anything that increases their wealth (even further) is good.

    24th Sep 2012
    7:54pm
    At last...something that resembles the TRUTH!!!!!

    Proves that Wayne Swan is one of the few honest politicians left. Politicians have insulted other countries politicians - particularly the Middle East - for eons but as soon as something is uttered about one of the most dangerous regimes in the world....the USA....we have a huge backlash!

    Oh..please get over it. The USA has as many crazies in politics as any middle eastern country, we are just not allowed to speak about it.

    We are always told to bow and scrape to the 'mighty USA' - well I don't want to anymore and with the way the world economy is going, I shan't have to for much longer.
    student
    24th Sep 2012
    8:05pm
    YAYYYY for Mussitate too :)
    magdika
    25th Sep 2012
    1:37am
    Magdi1436

    Wow, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the comments above, I agree a 1000% with Mussitate, Student and Grateful.
    Yes, politician do lie, some more then others, however, John Howard was a MASTER at it!!
    As for Tony Abbot, he shot himself in the foot again, by jumping up and down about Julia Gillard attending a Summit in New York instead of talking to the Indonesian President in Jakarta. Toni Abbot is not a suitable candidate for Prime Minister, pity Malcolm Turnbull lost by one vote.

    25th Sep 2012
    2:32am
    Grateful

    I have enjoyed your comments immensely. Intelligent and informed, with no hint of indoctrination from our corporate owned media.

    Student, Michael and magdika have complimented the comments - icing on the cake.

    Thank you.
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    7:07am
    thank you Mussitate. It is good to have a sensible and robust political debate that does not descend into chaos. Attack the policy not the person.
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    7:11am
    Little Johnny was also the master of the Fear Campaign too although the Mad Monk is trying to beat him :) Fear is a powerful weapon.
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    7:05am
    I believe Mr. Turnbull would make an oh Prime Minister. I worry about his entry into politics. He approached the Labour Party and was knocked back so then approached the Libs. His wealth and Liberal Party connections (f-i-l used to be prominent Lib. politician) However I do feel he has more compassion than the Mad Monk.
    student
    25th Sep 2012
    7:08am
    ooops, I meant 'an OK Prime Minister '
    Anonymous
    26th Sep 2012
    3:40am
    I don't think the status quo will allow Turnbull to be PM, he is intelligent and actually thinks about what is good for Australia.
    I do think they will probably dump Abbott just before the election but they will probably go for Hockey, who is a good corporate man and does exactly as he is told!
    samkel
    25th Sep 2012
    7:28am
    Regarding Wayne Swan's comments I say people who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones Mr. Swan!!
    Anonymous
    26th Sep 2012
    2:57am
    No..Swan is right, there are some really dodgy crazies in the Tea Party and hence the Republican Party. If this was the case for a small isolated country in the Caribbean, not a problem...who cares. However the USA is the most militarised nation in the world and to allow such crazies to control such destruction is in itself lunacy.
    Nautilus
    25th Sep 2012
    2:34pm
    Mr Swann can say wherever he likes. So far Australia remains a democracy.

    On the other hand there has been a lot of angst and criticism of any US representative who similarly speculates, no matter how obliquely or innocently, about Australian politics. To take an example, great offence was taken by Labor at the comments by a visiting US diplomat (Dec 2008) referring to,

    "Rudd's 'control freak' tendencies and 'persistent criticism from senior civil servants, journalists and parliamentarians that Rudd is a micro-manager obsessed with managing the media cycle rather than engaging in collaborative decision making".

    By coincidence, those were some of the reasons Julia Gillard plotted to depose her leader and eventually succeeded.

    The Aussie public is never comfortable with the self-promoting bragging of politicians especially Australian PMs and Treasurers, who strut the world stage giving advice whether it is asked for (never!) or not. It is self indulgence bordering on arrogance that has regularly led to criticism from Asian countries in particular. They find advice from PM Gillard and foreign minister Carr very irritating. It destroys years of diplomatic effort.
    robin hood
    25th Sep 2012
    2:50pm
    All I can say is if the labor party backstabs each other as they have been doing what do they do to the country
    wscifers
    25th Sep 2012
    10:09pm
    The Punch and Judy Show continues unabated.
    Is it true that Julia Gillard keeps Wayne Swan as Deputy PM as insurance against any assassination attemts? Or is Wayne Swan a reborn Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propaganda minister and spewer of hate? Or both?
    Anonymous
    26th Sep 2012
    2:36am
    I thought the Labor party were a group of 'lefties' - Nazi propaganda would be more closely associated with Fascism or 'Right' and hence the Liberal Coalition.
    wscifers
    25th Sep 2012
    10:40pm
    I just revisited last Thursday's discussion regarding the "beastly" (sorry about that,) performance of Cory Bernardi in Parliament and the resulting bun-fight which ensued. As usual the usual suspects appeared and the P & J show raged on.This week, it seems the esteemed Mr Swan took his cue to right the imbalance of outrageous remarks. Both men are guilty of going beyond the pale. One gets demoted. he other is "just doing his job". Isn't that an echo from the Nuremberg trials when Nazi war criminals pleaded their innocence? Odd that a dodgy lawyer would offer that as a defence of Mr. Swan. What exactly is the job Mr Swan is supposed to perform? Rottweiler?
    Anonymous
    26th Sep 2012
    2:46am
    Nazis are the epitome of fascism which is the same road that the USA are heading... they have thrown out 'habeas corpus' (right to a trial) and their 'rule of law' is in disarray which means that they can no longer call themselves a democracy. The USAs decent into practices of (authorised) torture, put them in the same league as fascists and hence align more with the Nazis.

    I am not trying to be rude but to align Swan with Nazis indicates that you may need to do some more reading....factual this time.
    Nautilus
    25th Sep 2012
    11:13pm
    Mr Swan said: “Let’s be blunt and acknowledge the biggest threat to the world’s biggest economy are the cranks and crazies that have taken over a part of the Republican Party.”

    While he can say what he likes, he should show some decorum as Deputy PM. PM Gillard was also foolish for backing him when she could have said something polite and diplomatic, as befits a PM. That is, leave the internal politics of an ally to them and don't horn in.
    Anonymous
    26th Sep 2012
    2:50am
    I can see where you are coming from......when the most dangerous regime in the world is being run by crazies and nutters.....you say nothhhhhiiinngg.
    wscifers
    26th Sep 2012
    1:20pm
    Glad to see you back, Mussitate.
    Perhaps I should point out that propaganda driven tyrannical regimes, be they of the left or of the right, both employ hatred, be it based on race, religion or class as means of promoting their own twisted view of things. The labels may be different, but the methods remain the same. How many propaganda ministers served under Stalin, or did he purge and liquidate them all before they could gain the prominence of Goebbels?
    Anonymous
    27th Sep 2012
    1:55am
    Thanks for the welcome wscifers....glad to be back.

    Yes, Howard was brilliant at creating racial hatred......'Babies Overboard' lies and propaganda.....Cronulla Riots. So I can see that particular aspect being relevant to Australia.

    Don't know how many Hitler went through before he was satisfied with Goebbels but here is a quote from Goebbels that you may be interested in:

    "Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play"

    Depends of course on how much control you have over the press or maybe Goebbels was that good? I don't know but I sure as hell hope we don't get another as skilled as he.
    student
    27th Sep 2012
    4:24pm
    Democratic countries have a war cabinet ... and the USA has been giving their (I can't remember the name of the Dept.) executive council more power and this COULD lead to a Dictatorship. Democracy is not equal., but unfortunately Democracy as it was in the beginning, can not work today.

    I have never hear that quote, thank you Mussitate. If the Gov can use the press, it stands to reason the media (press) has enormous power.
    Nautilus
    26th Sep 2012
    2:36pm
    wscifers, "propaganda driven tyrannical regimes"

    Surely you wouldn't be directing that at the US? If so, what bollocks!
    Take a trip and meet some of its citizens. Look around.
    Anonymous
    27th Sep 2012
    2:16am
    wscifers may not be referring to the USA but I would have no hesitation in stating that the USA are the penultimate in propaganda - they are superb! Not only against their own people but also all around the world!

    They are without doubt a tyrannical regime because the government is merely a conduit of wealthy corporate control. The aim of these corporations is to simply extract as much wealth out of that once wonderful country and the whole world, whilst pauperising as many of its own and other citizens of the world at the same time.

    That is why it is paramount for those US corporate parasites that the USA retain the US$ as the world currency, it allows the wealthy elite to mismanage their affairs but grow stinkingly richer! Ordinary US citizens and the rest of the world pay for that mismanagement and their military...ironic, don't you think...we pay for the military might of the US only to be terrorized by that same military might.

    The ordinary people of the USA are in for a really bad time, whilst the filthy rich are becoming even more rich. The propaganda that has been fed to the US populace over the last 20 years or so, has been used to immobilize the populace when they should be actively fighting these parasites of US society.

    The USA and the ordinary people in it are mostly great, it is the evil toads that run the corporations that should be lined up.......(okay, I'm a tad emotional but aren't you?....shouldn't we all be?)
    student
    27th Sep 2012
    4:38pm
    Y A Y Y Y for Mussitate. Let loose baby!. Damn it.... you tell it like it is!! I get upset when I see the misjustices being done to decent people and they accept it because their Gov. does it! The Government is NOT God! The USA Gov bailed out some businesses and banks (with the people's money) and then they gave themselves huge bonuses again! Thank goodness there have been reports of some CEO's returning/not accepting the 'bonus', some Aussie companies too (Qantas was one).
    I think Mr. Swan can 'lecture' any Government he wants :) He's pretty damned good :)
    Stay emotional Mussi :)
    student
    29th Sep 2012
    9:06am
    would it be right to say the Us is an Oligarchy system in the guise of Democracy?? I do know they are one step closer to being able to be a dictatorship (the operative words being 'being able to be')
    aquatrek
    26th Sep 2012
    4:36pm
    Suck on this all of the so called '100% positive' economic analysts. It took about 5 years for the LNP to claw back from the huge debt left by the ALP to the dotted black line. In those 5 years millions of $$$ worth of interest payments were met. That Oz now has a so called 'debt/GDP ratio' better than others is just a smokescreen. The PIGS had that before the austerity measures and the riots began - they are broke !!! The projections of Oz prosperity are based on excellent continued growth - in a world where economies are on the brink of disaster !!! What a fiscal risk to place the 23 million Oz citizens in. Just put the year to 1979 and look for yourselves and then clearly factually explain how the current huge ALP coalition deficit can be turned into a dotted black line number within 12 months: best of luck

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-budget
    Anonymous
    27th Sep 2012
    2:45am
    Bulldust.....the LNP simply ...

    1) introduced the GST which gave them heaps and heaps of money because the tax is inequitable and cost every Australian at least $2000 a year as an additional tax, whether you were a pensioner or not!

    2) paid nothing out in services for the people....ie. removed free dental clinics and introduced two separate health systems and penalized people who did not agree with this concept...two very small examples

    3) did not invest in any infrastructure in this country...roads, Internet, facilities

    Voila!!!!! Oodles of money to spend on their mates.....selling them Public owned utilities at drastically reduced prices, is one small example!

    Tell me what good it is to the average Australian, to pay GST, get no services, and no infrastructure but have a surplus!!!

    If that is difficult to follow....look at it as if it is a business. Businesses do not leave their money sitting around doing nothing, they use funds to create more income &/or grow their assets &/or grow their market share/business! If they simply hoarded the money, their business would fail.....ditto for Australia...the standard of living of every Australian would be reduced.

    Australians, right now, have one of the highest median wealth levels of most other countries....we are way ahead of the USA and Sweden.

    Hence, services to the people, infrastructure pending are good, for you and good for Australia. Hoarding surpluses are not. Particularly when Australia's surplus is so small in comparison with other countries (again particularly when compared to the USA & the UK).

    That is why Australia has a TRIPLE AAA rating and the USA does not.
    aquatrek
    27th Sep 2012
    9:41am
    Dear blogger: what dont you understand with quote "look for yourselves and then clearly factually explain". You apparently did neither. Explain that for a start.

    I will only respond to your point 1) in that the announced implementation of a GST indicated quite clearly that it was a reform process that incorporated several taxes therefore simplifying the tax system and it was also defined as being the base for the States to work from. Personally I was not $2000 pa worse off - what utter crap. The rest I will just consider an emotional rant - take your meds.
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    3:15am
    Yes you were, the GST is an insidious and inequitable tax. One that you don't know you are paying.

    The only federal tax that really disappeared was Wholesale Sales Tax (WST) which was a tax on GOODS ONLY and it was on the WHOLESALE value and not on the RETAIL value.

    Lets see...one of the higher levels of WST was 22.5% and the GST was 10% but here is the con. In MOST instances, the GST was higher than the WST because it was taken on the Retail value AND included a tax on LABOUR whereas the WST was on the wholesale value of the GOODS or materials only.

    Example: Clothing: Wholesale cost of the goods $30 @ 22.5% WST = $6.75
    Retail cost of goods + labour $200 @ 10% GST = $20.00

    Further example: Electrical repairs $400 labour $40 materials = $440 - under GST, a further charge of $44 would have to be paid and would therefore cost you $484. However, under WST you would only pay 22.5% tax on the the WHOLESALE value of the MATERIALS.....say $20 which is $4.50 extra, so your total bill would only be $444.50. A whopping $39.50 less.

    You apply these figures to the goods you buy or the services you pay for (power/phones/purchases for household goods, etc)....you can then understand how stung the average person was, because of this tax.

    The administrative red tape and increased compliance cost and penalties of this tax to businesses also make it a very expensive tax which the average citizens has to pay for!!!!!

    It is a very expensive tax and it is not an equitable tax...fact.
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    8:42am
    Mussitate: you still sneakily verbosely deliberately avoid the question that I posed at the beginning of this post. The link/graph is there for all to see and in black and white [would have even more impact if the deficit was in thick bright red [the Commy color]. Either answer the post's question or stop dumping your alien bulldust on my post patch.

    I repeat "what dont you understand with quote "look for yourselves and then clearly factually explain". You apparently did neither. Explain that for a start.

    As for the GST if it was such a disaster then why wasnt it repealed by the ALP ? Oh dont answer that because all governments of either position 'reform' with one hand and then 'reform' with the other anyway.
    wscifers
    26th Sep 2012
    11:01pm
    I would like to point out to our resident "Yank haters" that if it had not been for the sacrifices made by US servicemen in World War 2, you'd be fighting over fish heads in alleys behind Japanese restaurants. The way things are going, your grandchildren might well be fighting over scraps behind Chinese restaurants.
    Regarding the suggestion that Nautilus makes that I take a trip and visit America and see its citizens, i find irrelevant as no coherent reason for such a suggestion is discernable.
    As far as hate propaganda goes, Wayne Swan is doing his clumsy best to emulate Mark Latham in this area. And so the Punch and Judy show grinds on producing more heat than light and leaving us all none the wiser.
    Anonymous
    27th Sep 2012
    2:28am
    Oh please, the Russians won us the 2nd world war....dropping experimental nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities full of NON-combatant (including women and children) AFTER, yes AFTER the Japanese had already surrendered to the Russians was despicable, NOT heroic! The Japanese had surrendered but wanted to discuss the terms of their surrender but got nuked instead.

    Here we go again....anyone who says anything about corporate owned USA are Yankee haters...what a lot of fooey. I find the rulers of the USA despicable but think that most Americans are truly good people. Stick that in your hat and smoke it.

    You talk about propaganda and then can't see that you are full up to the teeth of it.

    Your country, the USA, has wonderful people in it but those that rule (the fascist elite) are despicable and it is those that need to be cast aside, so that the decent folk in that country can start again.
    aquatrek
    27th Sep 2012
    9:47am
    Mussitate: What planet are you from ? Aliens are definitely not permitted to rewrite the earths history - only homo sapiens are permitted that right lol read on

    Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan
    The surrender of the Empire of Japan on September 2, 1945, brought the hostilities of World War II to a close. By the end of July 1945, the Imperial Japanese Navy was incapable of conducting operations and an Allied invasion of Japan was imminent. While publicly stating their intent to fight on to the bitter end, the Empire of Japan's leaders, (the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, also known as the "Big Six"), were privately making entreaties to the neutral Soviet Union to mediate peace on terms favorable to the Japanese. The Soviets, meanwhile, were preparing to attack the Japanese, in fulfillment of their promises to the United States and the United Kingdom made at the Tehran and Yalta Conferences.
    wscifers
    27th Sep 2012
    11:05am
    For Mussitate to consider.
    The Red Army did claw the guts out of the Wehrmacht in World War 2, but can you tell me how many Russian servicemen died fighting the Japanese in the Pacific campaigns from 1941 until 1945? True, the Russians crushed the Japanese in Manchuria in August 1945, but they did not enter the war until 2 days after Hiroshima was bombed. By then, it was like poking a dagger into a twitching corpse.
    PS. Glad to hear you like the American people but hate their government. There are a lot of Americans that share your view. Suggest you visit there, then visit the socialist paradise of North Korera (whose problems are to be laid at America's doorstep?) and the visit Pakistan and SAudi Arabia. (where democratic regimes? rule.) Then decide which country you'd live to move to to live.
    aquatrek
    27th Sep 2012
    11:27am
    geez wscifers - go easy on the Alien
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    2:32am
    Good response wscifers, bit selective but good none the less.

    North Korea has had serious embargo's placed upon it by the USA which meant that the nation was in those times nearly starving to death...embargo's have also been placed on Cuba, Iran and others (embargoes include blockades of medicines; areoplane parts; energy; technology; food; etc)

    Pakistan government (has elections) and Saudi Arabia (dictatorship - no elections) are both supported by the USA. In fact Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship that would not have lasted if it was not for massive US support. The Saudi Arabian dictatorship is amongst the most brutal in the world.

    No I would not like to go to North Korea/Pakistan/or Saudi Arabia.

    Why would I, when I am in the best country with one of the highest median wealth in the world (means that the wealth is more evenly distributed)......and I will fight with all my heart to keep it that way.

    27th Sep 2012
    9:12pm
    Mussitate, can you please tell me how much of the GST went into the Howard Govt's., Federal coffers following the intro in 1996?
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    2:07am
    We have been through this before innes.

    The GST was earmarked/allocated to the states which meant that normal commonwealth funds that existed before GST...you know normal and equitable income tax did not have to be allocated to the States.

    You are an intelligent person, so you know what I am talking about.

    There is virtually no difference to the Commonwealth putting the GST into the pot with the other funds and then dishing out funds to each State OR simply giving the States the GST and maybe topping up funding where necessary, as the Commonwealth pot increased exactly by the amount of the GST!!!!! The States liked the GST going directly to them, as they did not have to beg/justify funding from the Commonwealth.

    END RESULT IS THAT HOWARD MADE LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY!!!!!!!
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    8:28am
    Mussitate: and lo and behold the almighty money god Swan doth sinketh his grubby paws into the 'pot o gold' and doth henceforth run wantonly amuck showering gold coins hither and thither and accidentally saveth Oz from the big ogre GFC !!!!!!!!
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    8:29am
    oh I forgot: applause idiot card [clap clap clap clap clap]
    aquatrek
    27th Sep 2012
    10:35pm
    Mussitate has gone home to his planet to get more alien bulldust to fuel his return trip to earth. I saw a bright streak in the night sky just a few minutes ago and it was definitely him.
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    2:11am
    aquatrek

    We do try and maintain a certain amount of curtesy on this forum...ask innes and Naut. We have our differences but try to get on.

    If you continue to be rude and insulting, I will GREATLY RELISH tearing you apart.....I do enjoy slinging matches....so much fun.

    You have been warned.
    Grateful
    28th Sep 2012
    6:18am
    Aquatrek, I would take that warning VERY seriously, Mussitate is killing you with FACTS against your prejudiced rhetoric. You haven't a chance.
    And as for those that think that Gillard is the "worst Prime Minister" ever, just take a look at these ex-Prime Ministers and Liberal wannabes.

    1966-67 Harold Holt
    1967-71 John Gorton
    1971-72 William McMahon
    1972-74 Billy Snedden
    1975-83 Malcolm Fraser
    1983-85 Andrew Peacock
    1985-89 John Howard
    1989-90 Andrew Peacock
    1990-94 Dr. John Hewson
    1994-95 Alexander Downer
    1995-07 John Howard
    2007-08 Dr. Brendan Nelson
    2008-09 Malcolm Turnbull
    2009-present Tony Abbott
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????????????? What a sad and sorry lot they were and are. ALL of them a failure or there only because there was nobody better. And who is there should Tony get rolled? Heaven forbid..

    And as for condemning the Labor Party for "back stabbing", EVERY one of those 'leaders', while most of them did nothing but preen themselves in their own glory, ALWAYS were looking over their shoulders for the next "Brutus". The newspapers were constantly full of the behind the scenes leadership struggles in that party. Peacock, Snedden, Fraser, Howard, Costello, it was legendary. No wonder, as Mussitate VERY correctly posted the litany of Liberal government failures and nothingness, these "leaders" did nothing, as they were too busy looking over their shoulders within their own party. The only "vision" that ANY of those failures had was a rear vision mirror!!!
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    8:46am
    you left out the best: Menzies - sloppy work Grateful
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    11:16am
    ps - but a good reminder to all who look at your contribution Grateful and thanks for the effort to type it all in a nice long list - the outcome is that since formal federal governance began approx 2/3 of Oz time it has been run by the NLP whereas the ALP have managed to hang in there for just 1/3 of the overall time - and that is despite the stacked numbers indicating that at least 50% are rusted on ALP but still easily removed wing nuts with no washer. Gillard is a cheap made in China Commie nutty wing nut mounted on a 316 stainless steel NLP finely machined threaded bolt. The NLP are much smarter and use Loctite and a locking washer.
    Grateful
    28th Sep 2012
    11:50am
    Menzies the "best" what?? Give us a break. He was never here, spent most of his time at Lords and sucking up to the gentry and the Queen in the U.K. Great speaker, but, history has proven that actions speak much louder than his words.
    Grateful
    28th Sep 2012
    11:56am
    And you said it. Compare the actual ACHIEVEMENTS of both parties!!! In only 30% of the time the Labor Party has achieved much for this country and not just for their rich mates!! The last 11 years of the Howard/Costello government all they did was raise taxes, collected $billions and just stuck it in the bank!!! NOTHING to show for 11 years except a fat bank balance. Typical Liberal attitude, judged by how much you have in the bank.
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    12:45pm
    Grateful: confirmation that you are also an alien because here on earth us earthlings believe in a policies/rules such as 'never a borrower or lender be' and 'dont count your chickens before they are hatched' and 'cut your cloth to suit' and 'save your cents and the dollars will look after themselves' whereas on your far far away galaxy you aliens seem to follow the principle of 'if you aint got it then borrow well beyond your means to get it because some-one-else will pick up the tab' nonsense. We call them the PIGS here on earth - good acronym eh ?

    That Howard/Costello bank balance saved your miserable hide from the GFC - just respectfully say ta.
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    1:06pm
    Grateful: wrong wrong wrong yet again - my card on the table is 'the pen is mightier than the sword' and that card has always been the winner - at least here on earth.
    Grateful
    28th Sep 2012
    4:38pm
    Aquatrek. Who CAUSED the GFC???
    Greedy Repulican and Tea Party capitalists who are better off now than before, instead of being in jail and won't let the Democrats fix it up.
    Would much rather be here where the Labor Party DID something than be still in that mess in the U.S. Just tell me what Abbott would have done if, heaven forbid, he won that election. NOTHING, nothing, nothing and we would be in the same mess as the U.S. and all of those P.I.G.S. You're the one on another planet.
    Get out into main street and listen to FACTS. And what will happen if Abbott wins in 2013??? NOTHING, nothing, nothing, except slash jobs, family benefits and kids education future!!! Do something about HIM and you might start getting a balanced argument.
    The bloke doesn't even know what he is talking about. remember that joke of a speech about Olympic Dam? Farcically embarrassing, and now he tells Gillard to go to Indonesia to speak to their Prime Minister, when he is sitting beside her in New York. If you are continually extolling the virtues of the current Liberal Party, then HONESTLY answer this simple question to yourself. Is Tony Abbott the man you want to see as Australia's Prime Minister for probably the next 8 years???? Would you have him home for dinner with your family and friends??? Be serious this time and cut out all of that stupidity, it demeans your obvious knowledge, mis-spent as it may seem to most of us.
    Grateful
    28th Sep 2012
    4:49pm
    Aquatrek. And "they" didn't save my miserable hide. It is still miserable. I lost three profitable companies when our wonderful capitalist banks withdrew all of my funding immediately Lehmann Bros went under. 65 employees lost their jobs and I was left totally insolvent, losing my home and still owing huge business debts. I could easily have declared bankruptcy as most "capitalists" do when they are hit like I was and then proceed to immediately start up new companies.
    I refused to take that gutless way out and will be paying off my loans until I am 80, if I live that long.
    So, for God's sake, don't tell me to say ta to or show ANY respect to those miserable, greedy, heartless b's still making their millions in salaries and bonuses off the battlers of this country. But, I bet that you wouldn't have any idea what I am talking about in your pampered ivory tower. Before you criticize, try walking a mile in my, and others like me, shoes.
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    5:04pm
    For the ALP 'New Coalition' the endeth cometh nigh - Abbot ... well not my perfect choice but .... yep he is at the helm at present plus he can dine at my place anytime because I am freeman voter and definitely not that a narrow blinkered minded antisocialist; "What will happen ?" NLP for the next 8 years .... you said it not me > a conservative liberal coalition running the country and attempting to impart some common sense fiscal policies albeit a massive deficit ......... that is what they are very good at and have been doing for the whole 2/3 of their Oz governance; so why dont you stop bashing the person and whingeing like a 'stuck porker'.

    When Mussitate answers my simplistic BIG Q then I will refrain from amusing myself with silly parodies of yourselves. Does that space ship need a push start ?
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    5:09pm
    Grow up !! I have also lost lotsa monies twice now - 1987 and 2008/9 so you are not the only one. Back in the good ole days it was whether one survived the latest Viking raid intact so just get on with it. Play the game within the rules - full stop.
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    6:35pm
    Grateful

    I am sorry to hear your story. You are an amazing person...not only to build a business but to be so honest and upstanding when things get tough.

    You are a hero....bravo....bravo

    I have always said that micro, small and medium sized businesses are the bloodline of this country. Large and mega businesses, generally wield to much power and do very little for a country, except to extract as much as possible for their boards and CEOs and then shareholders (the larger of which are usually board members).

    Contrary to common belief, the Labor Party's policies were better for small businesses, in the last election than the Coalitions. However, I thing that both parties need to stop pandering to 'big' business and increase their promotion and assistance to 'small' and 'medium' business.
    student
    28th Sep 2012
    8:46am
    does anyone really think the US politicians would actually care what Aus thinks of them?? We are only here for their benefit.

    Also, I have lots of acquaintances but few friends. Every time a new Treaty is signed by any Government, that country is the New Best Friend (aka NBF). Politics is not about being honest and ethical, it's about .... lots of things but not honesty and ethics.
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    6:40pm
    Never a truer word said.
    wscifers
    28th Sep 2012
    12:02pm
    To respond to the original question about whether or not Wayne Swan should hold his tongue, I feel he holds it down very well, using his foot.
    As far as past prime ministers go,I can only wonder what Ben Chifley would make of toe current crop of Labor Party leaders.Under his stewardship Labor was the workers' party, looking after the best interests of working people. Gough Whitlam changed the Labor Party from being the working persons parry to the Santa Claus party which came to an end in 1975. Kevin Rudd likewise confused the Prime Ministerial role with that of Santa Claus and his successor has continued this regrettable tendancy blowing the surplus they inherited in 2007 to what is approaching a quarter of a trillion dollars, owed to China.
    Unfortunately some people think this trend toward indebtedness should continue until 2016. I wonder when the Chinese will "foreclose" on us and what sort of future our children and grandchildren can look forward to. I am not optimistic. Enjoy what you have while you can.
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    12:26pm
    My advice to my son was 'marry an Asian' but he has refused. Mussitate still hasnt responded to my very simple government graph link illustrating that same 'indebtedness' for those who cant read English with a pretty simple picture and I guess that he never ever will as he lives on a planet called 'Never Ever Land' with Grateful in a far far away galaxy called 'Galaxy At The End Of The Universe'.
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    7:30pm
    wscifers

    I am a little disappointed that you are continuing on about a surplus, when it is of no benefit to the average Australian or Australia....I have re-iterated what I said earlier..................

    The LNP

    1) introduced the GST which gave them heaps and heaps of money because the tax is inequitable and cost every Australian at least $2000 a year as an additional tax, whether you were a pensioner or not!

    2) paid nothing out in services for the people....ie. removed free dental clinics and introduced two separate health systems and penalized people who did not agree with this concept...two very small examples

    3) did not invest in any infrastructure in this country...roads, Internet, facilities

    Tell me what good is it to the average Australian, to pay GST, get no services, and no infrastructure but have a surplus!!!

    If that is difficult to follow....look at it as if it is a business. Businesses do not leave their money sitting around doing nothing, they use funds to create more income &/or grow their assets &/or grow their market share/business! If they simply hoarded the money, their business would fail.....ditto for Australia...the standard of living of every Australian would be reduced.

    Australians, right now, have one of the highest median wealth levels of most other countries....we are way ahead of the USA and Sweden.

    Hence, services to the people, infrastructure spending are good, for you and good for Australia. Hoarding surpluses are not. Particularly when Australia's surplus is so small in comparison with other countries (again particularly when compared to the USA & the UK).

    That is why Australia has a TRIPLE AAA rating and the USA does not.

    Additionally, you criticise Whitlam but forget he gave us Medicare (although the coalition (mainly) but also labor, have whittled away at it, to create two health systems, one public and one private. Whitlam also gave us equal opportunity to get educated...he took away UNI fees and provided an income to students whilst studying...allowing the average person to get a higher education. Before, only the rich could afford a higher education. He did many, many more wonderful things for average Australians as well.

    What brought Whitlam down and cast him as the devil of Australian politics was Murdoch!

    Here is a true story.....Murdoch was sucking up to Whitlam. By giving him good press because he wanted to be SIR Murdoch and to get that he had to be put on 'the list' that went to the queen. Whitlam had that power. Well Whitlam went through all the steps but woe and behold when the recommended 'list' was produced Mr Murdoch's name was not on it....gutsy Whitlam, aye! Well, as you expect, the roof caved in and Whitlam received the most scathing press coverage of any PM ever. To such an extent that the average Australian who believe the rubbish they put in the media started to espouse their own dislike of Whitlam...even though he (Whitlam) had given them more than any other PM ever had!

    WHITLM was the best PM Australia ver had!!!!!

    aquatrek
    What link??? Duh...
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    8:40pm
    Mussitate: If I am a TROLL then you are the classic alien imbecile.
    Your verbal diarrhea splashes all around you in such large volumes that the splashback interferes with your vision but what with you being an alien I will spoon feed you like a child:
    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-budget duh duh duh
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    3:32pm
    At last - Eureka - I now know why the Oz peoples tolerate for brief outbursts of ill chosen rhetoric aka Swan and even bursts of pretending to be in charge of a whole country - its the true dinky-di bluey Ozzy colonial convict spirit of favoring the mongrel underdog in a dust up !! But I wont be putting any $$ on this mangy blood sucking flea ridden ranga bitch pooch in the next 'cage fight'.
    Anonymous
    28th Sep 2012
    6:21pm
    Grow up .... Little wheeney yankee doodle thick and stupid TROLL.....all TROLLS belong under a bridge. Oh hell, I know why you aren't under a bridge....there is no room under the bridge because of your greedy mongrel fantasy friends....the good citizens of the US who worked hard, need those areas to survive and won't accept TROLLS staying there with them.
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    6:27pm
    ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL [thats 7] never ever been called a TROLL before so must go look it up hehehehe ;-O)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    8:59pm
    Wikipedia: A troll is a supernatural being - yippee hooray you bewdy I always knew I was one but now its confirmed - I must tell my parents hahaha
    student
    29th Sep 2012
    9:29am
    aqua,... I am starting to take offense at name calling the PM.
    Grateful
    28th Sep 2012
    8:07pm
    Mussitate. Me thinks that we are duelling with a proper nut case here. Maybe, the best way to deal with him is to simply do what good parents do when they have such uncontrollable children in a supermarket. Ignore them!!

    When disaster struck me with the GFC I was two years into partial recuperation from cancer. At 64 years of age, possible terminal illness, lost my three businesses, having to put off 65 workers, losing our home and still with huge business debts, I was offered help from the Social Work Dept of the cancer center. They ALL said unequivocally to "do what everyone does" declare bankruptcy. But, they were my debts, incurred in absolute good faith, I owed that money, not to the banks, it's not their money, but to the ordinary people who placed that money in those banks for us business people to borrow to give work to other people. It is the "capitalist" way, but, having a social conscience seems to be out of place when you go into the "capitalist" world. I suppose that's why people like me, although espousing and actually practising the capitalist way, have great difficulty in voting for a Liberal Party that seems to have no concern for "ordinary" people and only pander to big business and the rich.
    Getting back to the topic of this blog, that why I take great inspiration when I hear our leaders say what they really think and not what "the P.R. men" tell them to say. Abbott, has absolutely NO credibility in my mind and I would hate to leave this world having lived the last few years in what is such a great country but governed by such a depressing, negative, do nothing, dumb bloke like Abbott. Aquatek, do us all a favour and use whatever talents you have to depose that idiot, unless of course, you do actually admire and relate to him, which, sadly, would not surprise me.
    aquatrek
    28th Sep 2012
    8:41pm
    TSP
    student
    29th Sep 2012
    9:49am
    I have no respect for money or 'capital' (put simply, the means by which to produce money) but then, I am not an economist. Grateful your story is so very familiar to me, but I wouldn't change my circumstances for anything. I think I have learned to be more compassionate than most and be thankful for what I have. The present LNP frighten me. There is a sub-lower class starting in Aus (it has already started in US of A) Mr.Swan was right in being unimpressed with the Tea Party. Good heavens, George W left a financial mess and now the Tea Party wants to have a go at ruling?? I for one, hope the American people listen to Mr. Swan and seriously think AND vote for Pres. Obama
    aquatrek
    29th Sep 2012
    10:48pm
    ditto
    student
    29th Sep 2012
    9:23am
    the Libs and the Nationals (now called the LNP) only tolerate each other for power.
    toot2000
    29th Sep 2012
    12:49pm
    We've always kidded ourselves that Australia is an egalitarian country, it's not, we have distinctive class divisions yet they are not immediately obvious. John, the self funded retiree looks down his nose at people on the pension, if they were worth their salt, they would be like himself, carrying his own weight and not being a burden on the government. The pensioner is left feeling resentful but secretly wishes he were in his shoes. Such is the fickle nature of man.
    retroy
    29th Sep 2012
    5:42pm
    What a lot of Australians including Swann know little about USA politics.

    The Tea Party started because they wanted to rein in the excessive Govt spending and allow people to earn a decent living rather that depend on handouts from the Govt.
    The left Democrats (Swann's cronies) have been spending money they do not have and borrowing or printing money so their national debt will soon be 17 Trillion dollars.
    If this continues it is likely to have a far greater negative effect on the world economy than the fiscal restraint policy of the Republican party.
    Unfortunately 40% of Americans are some how dependent on Govt hand outs and Obama has promised more.
    Rommney promises to get the USA back on a realistic ecoconomic footing but they will have to work, and not get hand outs, so that is unpopular.
    Most Australians know that life is about working and providing for your family and that is why the States electorate chose to ditch labor and the left.
    Unfortunately the bad medicine we are taking at the moment is attracting negative comment, but living within your means is the only correct long term policy.
    Unless the USA population chooses correctly in the election they will make us all suffer.

    Incidentally Swann only had the money to spend (unwisely ) because Costello put it away for a rainy day.
    aquatrek
    29th Sep 2012
    10:53pm
    that is exactly what the 'others' dont seem to get - there is a huge deficit that will take years to rectify - there is a govt weblink that clearly shows the enormity of it [I have posted that link more than once but none seem to want to enem acknowledge its existence - duh] but 'they' just sweep it under the carpet with a 'she will be right mate' fiscal bloody childless mindless imbecilic foolhardy dangerous risky non-commonsense nonsense

    29th Sep 2012
    8:25pm
    retroy
    Wow, sorry but you are really a bit mixed up and I can only blame the propaganda you are subjected to, in your country. The problem with your country...you don't have to worry about Australia it is doing a 200% better than your country....is that the government are merely conduits for the wealthy elite and corporations, who tell you that the wealthy shouldn't have to pay taxes (so they don't) and only the workers have to pay taxes...lots of it.
    They then say that the government should not have much money to pay for services, infrastructure (unless of course it is to handout to rich areas, etc) and the govt should shrink.....ow gee...that means NONE of the taxes paid by the workers are applied for the benefit of the workers and their families!!! Now that makes a lot of sense...doesn't it!!

    It was that idiot BUSH, along with the penultimate GREED of your wealthy elite BANKERS that screwed your country.

    How many times do I have to go through this...GST filled the coffers; along with reduced services to the Australian people; and little or NO infrastructure being undertaken.

    A SURPLUS does NOTHING for the average Australian....NOTHING!!!!!!!!

    Besides ...take a look at our tiny, tiny debt and compare it to the USA and it is hardly seen. that is why Australia has a AAA rating and the USA does not.

    Please worry about your own country and don't try to bring this country down to its knees by installing the same idiotic corporate/elite policies here!!!!!
    aquatrek
    29th Sep 2012
    10:55pm
    you are a wanker of the lowest denomination = COMMUNIST
    retroy
    30th Sep 2012
    8:49am
    Musitate
    I have not become mixed up from the propaganda that you spew and I read.
    I am an Australian, but I observe politics in a number of countries and I understand the issues with both eyes open. You should try it just once, and perhaps you would be better informed,and able to make rational informed comment.
    Grateful
    30th Sep 2012
    4:56pm
    Retroy, you are accusing Mussitate of not making rational informed comment, yet you tolerate the crazy irrational garbage that comes out of aquatrek???

    29th Sep 2012
    11:34pm
    aquatrek

    That's ABUSIVE dear wheeney Yankee Doodle dandy. Please leave that sort of behaviour for the wealthy elite.....but no, you won't do that because TROLLS are owned by the wealthy elite, aren't they.

    Besides I would rather be called a communist than a fascist.....so, that part of your attempt at intimidation, did not work. Now as to the term wanker...very Australian....aren't we all.....please don't try and tell me you never have!?!

    Australians are hard to insult my boy....we don't take ourselves half as seriously as we should...so, we just enjoy the exchange.

    Try a little harder...I still have an Aussie smirk on my face.
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    2:23am
    for low ranking rating in this country Communist wins hands down you scum
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    3:00am
    ps - tap tap knock knock anybody or any body home in that empty alien communist shell ? after much red slime verbal diarrhea you still haven't responded to the big Q even after having your ugly alien face shoved into it [the govt budget link] because you dont have an ounce of intellect or the basic intelligence to do it = you are unfortunately for this forum a total 100% failure
    Anonymous
    30th Sep 2012
    6:12am
    Well, okay the spittle in the eye wasn't at all pleasant.

    Settle down boy wonder......us scummy, communist, low intellect aliens aren't used to so much excitement.

    Winners and Losers are an Americanism which thankfully, is not part of Australia.

    Australian's are never "failures" because our motto is "give it a go mate, give it a go" and if you give it a go and it doesn't work out, then that's okay because we gave it our best and "she'll be right mate".

    Hence, if you try your best, that is good enough!

    Maybe your country (USA) should learn a little from other cultures...it certainly couldn't hurt.
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    9:54am
    Dear Alien Mussitate: what with me being a true blue Oz with European immigrant heritage on the Maitland in 1838 the USA is certainly not my country although I have visited a small section of it. I am so sorry that your single eye had its vision impeded by your own fluidic expulsion but Oz has high quality social medical care and we will try to flush that eye out with a can of XXXX or maybe something weaker like Coopers Light. I appreciate your 'giving it a go' and as you point out we are very fair so I will still offer a push start for that spaceship to assist your return to the home planet lol.
    Grateful
    30th Sep 2012
    5:01pm
    Mussitate, that thing called aquatrek has been so destroyed by your logic that he has no other alternative but to resort to that garbage name calling that 6 year old girls persist with at school. That thing does have very serious mental problems.
    And I bet that he now agrees with that other IDIOT, Alan Jones, that Julia is now guilty of patricide!!!!!!! Bloody unbelievable and we thought the yanks had it bad with those Tea Party nutters, when we have much worse right in our own back yards. And their vote is equal!!!
    Grateful
    30th Sep 2012
    5:04pm
    And who can we thank for that "high quality social medical care" ? Certainly not the Libs, particularly Abbott, who cut $1 BILLION from the health budget when he was Health minister!!!! AND will do so again, IF, heaven forbid, he is the next P.M.
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    5:27pm
    Dear Alien Grateful: Assuming that you are the co-pilot [Mussitate the El Capitano ?] of your bright red Commie space ship then I can fully understand your lot being 'off course' lol Oz will not accept your application for a Temporary Visa [TV] if you refer to us as 'things' unless you put 'things' with a capital T. Maybe you would like to have a go at the Big Q [the govt budget link] because that is a KEY component of the TV application process. Sorry, I know that with just one eye that that little task is a tall order but 'give it a fair go' and you may surprise even yourself.
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    5:31pm
    ps - For the contest to be seen as 'fair even to aliens' you may call a Commie friend providing that the friend is non other than Mr Swan [behaves more like a duck actually] because he would also like to know the answer despite his mocking of others stuck deep in the mire like himself.
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    5:32pm
    pss - change mire to 'duck shit'.
    Anonymous
    30th Sep 2012
    8:25pm
    aquatrek,
    My god, you are saying that you are an Australian...no way....I really don't believe it! You appeared sub-educated which combined with your total propagandarised Americanisation, your push for unhinged fascism and ....oh..dear...someone said 'communism' psychological flaw, you were a dead ringer for a USA Tea Party candidate.

    Thinking you are an Aussie, just makes you even more embarrassing!

    Sheez!....what next....talking 'drop bears'.
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    8:43pm
    Extremes of anything usually go extinct one way or another - extreme left the communist Stalins and Co. and extreme right the fascist Hitlers and Co. With your spaceship parked in the extreme left zone you and your ilk will most likely be extinct quite soon - for the sake of Oz the sooner the better. It wont be long now and the political vastness of outer space will be yours to roam at will yet again - I hear that there is another Alien group [Greens] that might want to buy cheap tickets so that will be nice company for you El Capitano, your 1st officer Grateful [and he will be] and your phone-line help Mr Swan because you can take some of the scum bilge cargo like Mr Slipper as well. You can amuse yourselves on the very long journey by playing card games like pass the live real Red Witch lol
    Anonymous
    30th Sep 2012
    9:36pm
    aquatrek
    "You can amuse yourself on the very long journey by playing card games" - bit boring that, we prefer playing with TROLLS, they are a lot more fun and can entertain us for hours.
    aquatrek
    30th Sep 2012
    10:10pm
    I am starting to feel sorry that I wont be on the very long trip into outer political space with you and your motley cargo of degenerates as we supernatural beings like playing around with relatively quite harmless very large one eyed red vile vomit spewing while still talking crap Aliens. That activity seems to fill in the earthly boredom bits while carefully charting an SP [Seniors Party] course for the better future of Oz seniors. Its not quite 'au revoir' yet but I dont think that I will miss you for very long. Totsiens
    retroy
    1st Oct 2012
    12:00pm
    Grateful
    Aquatrek had some rational thought out points until mussitate called him vile names and he responded in kind but he did not attack me so why would I have to comment on his thoughts.
    I did feel the need to try and guide mussitate back to some basis of reality but alas he is too far gone.
    Grateful
    1st Oct 2012
    12:29pm
    Retroy. First check out who really did lower this discussion into the sewer before you make those accusations. I think it is the absolute opposite to what you have said, in all respects..
    Grateful
    1st Oct 2012
    12:32pm
    Be very interesting to see what aqautrek says about that Alan Jones story. Note that he didn't refute what I suggested!!!!!
    aquatrek
    1st Oct 2012
    4:30pm
    try that for size you moron Alien Grateful:
    http://www.change.org/petitions/2gb-and-advertisers-immediately-cease-association-with-alan-jones-over-died-of-shame-comment-boycott2gb?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11371&alert_id=VgNLcRtYWD_cNlzEkAQju
    Anonymous
    2nd Oct 2012
    10:17pm
    I have not called our resident TROLL vile names dear retroy, outflanked him with my rational comments maybe but have not descended into aquatreks level of name calling.
    Wanker..spew.. vomit.. alien... commie.... scummy.... low intellect.... red slime .....verbal diarrhea..... imbecile....idiot...just a tiny selection of aquatrek's name calling.
    aquatek was told that even when we disagree with others we usually do not descend into verbal abuse. He/she was warned that he/she should show some form of decorum to other parties - my comment BELOW his 27/9 10:35pm.

    Unfortunately, aquatek continued to TROLL these comments insulting commenters and didn't heed common courtesies.

    aquatrek is a TROLL and a TROLL gets treated as a TROLL should...with total disregard. Even then I could not bring myself to match his disgusting manner and discourse, so simply settled for 'prodding' the TROLL as amusement.
    wscifers
    1st Oct 2012
    2:30pm
    I see that the Punch and Judy show continues unabated and that brickbats have replaced the buns. More heat than light is being (de)generated and although amusing in a warped sort of sense, it isn't very enlightening. It's been fun, but I have weeds to exterminate in the garden.
    PS it's almost as good(?) as the parliamentary broadcasts on tv.
    retroy
    1st Oct 2012
    7:32pm
    Grateful
    I am just not a sworn lefty like you and Mussi but I certainly did not check who was insulting first because I'm not interested in such trivia.
    I prefer to look at all sides of an issue and after researching the facts make an informed judgement.
    You just cannot do that if you are not prepared to open the other eye.
    Have a nice day
    aquatrek
    1st Oct 2012
    7:46pm
    the Aliens have only one large fixed eye so it is not within their limited capabilities
    Grateful
    7th Oct 2012
    11:07am
    retroy, so your "informed judgement" is that I am a "sworn lefty". Heaven forbid and says so much about your "researching the FACTS". Having an opinion that the Liberal Party over the past 20 years have done NOTHING for the betterment of the larger population, particularly in health, age pensions and kids education, has made me have no other opinion than to state my opinion that that party is not one that i can possibly vote for in its present form and with its present joke of a "leader." Read Mussitate and other statements of FACTS about the proven performance of this and past Liberal parties and you would have to be VERY one eyed to still support them. To say that you look at both sides is quite farcical IF you did use both eyes.

    2nd Oct 2012
    10:34pm
    retroy

    From above:
    "I have not called our resident TROLL vile names dear retroy, outflanked him with my rational comments maybe but have not descended into aquatreks level of name calling.
    Wanker..spew.. vomit.. alien... commie.... scummy.... low intellect.... red slime .....verbal diarrhea..... imbecile....idiot...just a tiny selection of aquatrek's name calling.

    aquatek was told that even when we disagree with others we usually do not descend into verbal abuse. He/she was warned that he/she should show some form of decorum to other parties - my comment BELOW his/hers 27/9 10:35pm.

    Unfortunately, aquatek continued to TROLL these comments insulting commenters and didn't heed common courtesies.

    aquatrek is a TROLL and a TROLL gets treated as a TROLL should...with total disregard.

    Even then I could not bring myself to match his disgusting manner and discourse, so simply settled for 'prodding' the TROLL as amusement."

    Additional comment:
    tch..tch retroy,

    I do believe you yourself could very easily be called one eyed....you see you haven't looked at both sides at all....have you.

    Were not my comments 'rational' until aquatek decided to spew TROLLettes at myself and other commenters.

    Or do you simply not agree with my comments (your prerogative) and actually like aquatrek because he is saying the things you would like to say. MERELY because I have more of a social, as opposed to a fascist, point of view!
    aquatrek
    3rd Oct 2012
    10:03am
    Now you can add liar to your repertoire - this was the link that I posted asking for comment: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-budget

    Mussitate 27th Sep 2012 2:45am
    Because you like the pretty alphabet characters as you verbosely type, your response started with the word Bulldust !!! - absolutely nothing to do with the link. Several pages of your verbose text later on and after repeated attempts to get you to respond in an intelligent orderly fashion you start giving a Mussitate absolutely incorrect version of WW2. You even insult me personally by saying [only because you were blinded by your pages and pages of socialist rhetoric] "aquatrek What link??? Duh..." You have blatantly refused to respond to my original post ever since. Yes, I did pigeon hole you then as an Alien - you called me a TROLL and that was when the mud slinging started .........
    But then this is my version of blogging history and you will undoubtedly rewrite it in your own fashion, just like your WW2 rubbish.
    aquatrek
    8th Oct 2012
    5:49pm
    Research shows that a TROLL is = online bully. What a flipping joke you are to use that word. Now add 'hypocrite' to your name repertoire.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2012
    5:00pm
    Gee aquatrek

    You started your abuse well before the label of TROLL was placed.....duh...that is why you were labelled a TROLL. You squirm and turn little one because you were out of order and now want to place that back on me.

    Oh! Gee that was a big insult by me saying "What link????Duh.." I missed your bloody link big deal!

    Have you seen the number of comments here and most of them were more informative and rational and far, far less abusive than yours. So you guess which ones I read more thoroughly....go on, it's not hard.

    Now I will decent to your level.... you have no sense of fair play, you are single minded, one eyed, under educated, a hypocrite, a manipulator and a downright liar.

    You are rude, distasteful and BULLY anyone that has a different view to your own.

    Even that was nicer than what you spit out because you do it with so much more venom.
    student
    4th Oct 2012
    8:22am
    wtf !!!! love it.... I love it :) Keep going boys, I love the rhetoric :) Ohhh, shade of Paul Keating at his best :) However, do I need to watch Dr. Who to understand everything??
    Oh, and I am a genteel female and will have to Google many of the insults .. but I love it !!! I have often been called a commie and Communism as it was first intended by Marx (as economical tool not political) let's face it, it was a very equal system. But, unfortunately people were added to the equation, and it was infected. Domacract is no better. But I am getting off the track .. let it rip guys :)

    Thanks guys :)
    student
    4th Oct 2012
    8:24am
    Domacract ??? Democracy, see, I am too excited :)
    trantor
    4th Oct 2012
    1:00pm
    Wayne Swann has a right to speak his mind ( such as it is) and he is an expert on loonies , just look at the rabble in his own party.


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