Growth is surging, but are retirees missing out?

Economy may be surging, but pensioners are losing out on the growth spurt.

Retirees missing out on the boom?

The Australian economy defied expectations in the first three months of this year to contribute to a strong yearly growth rate of 3.1 per cent, but not everyone is getting a cut of the increase.

That rate, known as gross domestic product (GDP), makes all Australians collectively richer than we were at the same time last year.

The one per cent surge so far this year was fuelled by higher mining exports and increased business and government spending, according to Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) figures released yesterday.

But there are losers, too, and they include retirees who own their homes. Softening house prices means that the assets of home-owning pensioners may have lost value.

Another dampener on the fortunes of senior Australians relying on the Age Pension is that, along with soft wages growth, their income has virtually flatlined in the past year.

The minuscule rises in government payments each March and September have not been able to offset the rising cost of living in Australia.

This is borne out in yesterday’s ABS figures, which show household consumption firmed just 0.3 per cent this year and that largely reflected spending on essentials.

“With income rises still tracking inflation and house price falls reducing households' net worth, we expect spending momentum to remain subdued through the rest of this year," said BIS Oxford Economics macro-economics head Sarah Hunter.

Although Australians’ spending barely budged, their household savings went backwards, falling to a 10-year low of just 2.1 per cent.

The lack of likelihood that house prices or household consumption will increase has economists predicting that the March quarter GDP growth rate could be the last economic bounce for a while.

Did you get the sense that the economy was growing strongly? Do you feel you have been left behind by the boom?

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    COMMENTS

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    floss
    7th Jun 2018
    10:33am
    As a fully self funded retiree our income has really fallen in the last three years,i know who to blame for that.The trend to go after retirees is gathering pace and both parties must share the blame,the forgotten Australians.Perhaps we are not vocal enough.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    10:46am
    It's a game floss. The big end of town is going ahead by a hell of a lot more than 3.1% pa with tax cuts to come, for them. It has to be paid for. And that's why retirees and wage and salary earners are being targeted.
    What you feel is the result of the Class Warfare being waged on 90% of the population by the current government. People need to wake up and vote accordingly. Whilst I have not voted Liberal or Labor for decades THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT.
    Lescol
    7th Jun 2018
    11:37am
    agree completely Mick and there will be no change until the retiees vote out the incombent governemnt and contiue to do so in order to force the issue. Do oposition - no or worse change,

    cheers
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    12:13pm
    Floss - your income has increased year on year at the rate of CPI,
    It’s a proven fact that retirees spending decreases past the age of 67
    Will you give the increases back to government
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    12:34pm
    Shorten wants to take your franking credits off you.

    If you have invested in shares , then the value of your investments over the last few years should have increased anywhere upwards of 20%

    For some reason retirees are loathe to convert capital gains into income losing out on reinvesting some of it during market corrections
    HarrysOpinion
    7th Jun 2018
    1:30pm
    Hey, Raphael, don't be so arrogant in expecting Floss to return anything.
    Truth is that under Labor government, the old age pension had a 4%-5% annual increase (2012-2013)
    Under Liberal ( Coalition) the annual age pension increase (indexation) since 2014 has been 50% less than under Labor. The Coalition has been depriving pensioners to the brink of current poverty while feeding itself with wealth at the expense of personal tax payers and the old age pensioners.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    1:36pm
    floss - in response to the lying government troll above please read the following article from the Guardian which has FACTUAL statistics and you will see how the truth is routinely manipulated by some of our cash for comment posters:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2018/jun/07/growth-with-a-grain-of-salt-its-the-same-old-story-as-households-miss-out?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+AUS+v1+-+AUS+morning+mail+callout&utm_term=277347&subid=18943470&CMP=ema_632

    Just cut and paste. The article is somewhat long but the long and the short is that the top end is getting heaps of salary increases and the bottom is getting zip.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:13pm
    The guardian is a left wing publication that no reputable economist will write for or take any notice of
    It’s funded by subscriptions from left wing interest groups hence the lack of impartiality or substance
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:31pm
    From a bigoted LNP supporter, that's rich! The Guardian is frequently the ONLY publication publishing the truth - because it has no interest in supporting the lies of the privileged power-brokers. Too often, nobody else wants to expose the truth.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:34pm
    As a self funded retiree my income has been increasing for years now as I spend considerably less than I earn. If you spend more than you earn then you will earn less each year as your capital is eroded. However if you spend less than you earn then your capital will increase giving you bigger income year on year going forward.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:35pm
    Unfortunately the Guardian has some strange ideas at times and I certainly wouldn't rely on anything it says myself.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:47pm
    You can't spend less than you earn if you don't earn enough to maintain a decent lifestyle, OG.

    And how about you stop the contradictions? You are making a fool of yourself. One day you spend less than you earn and your assets are growing, and the next you plan to retire with nothing.

    Nothing you say is credible, much less constructive.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:53pm
    No I plan to die with nothing as I intend to either spend it all or give it away before I die. I am already as retired as I'll ever be as I can't see myself not dabbling in something.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    3:07pm
    OGR - you are spot on. every other big media outlet REFUSES to publish the truth because they are ALL owned by the big end of town. The Guardian and the ABC are the only two who try and are then ruthlessly attacked by government MPs who make all sorts of claims of bias. The truth is THEIR propaganda outlets are biased because THEY REFUSE TO PRINT and PUSH THEIR RIGHT WING POLITICIANS during every election campaign. And then we have the Murdoch Press.

    Tell me about bias trolls. Dispute the figures, not the messenger. You have no credibility, as normal.
    Kathleen
    7th Jun 2018
    4:51pm
    I agree Mick. I am voting Labor this time. I have voted independent, Greens, even liberal, but this time it must be Labor. Our Victorian Premier is doing a great job and the National Labor team is a huge improvement on LNP who are nasty and dysfunctional. Workers and poorer people need to be considered this time. Health and education are my priorities as well. The likes of PH are disgusting racists and lack intelligence. Independents and Greens have no clout so we need labor to bring back fairness and help for the worker who is really struggling.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    5:14pm
    Agree Kathleen. For the first time in decades I also will be voting Labor. For me this is a necessary evil to get rid of the rich man's cancer currently raping the country.
    The Victorian premier has gotten a whole pile of negative reporting lately. Makes it look like he is a terrible politician but you quickly realise this is the big end of town owned media doing its vile stuff to remove Labor from office. Happens in every state and for all positions of power as well.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    5:30pm
    Good on you both and I reckon you will regret it very quickly.
    Kathleen
    7th Jun 2018
    5:56pm
    OG, what I regret is people with views like yours that have no compassion or even understanding of what is happening. The gulf between the haves and have nots is not even good for the country. The people struggling at the bottom with no money to buy anything with does not help the economy. Wages need to grow from the bottom up to get everyone spending!
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    6:47pm
    Kathleen why are people struggling? I spend very little and I live very well. The only conclusion I can come to is people either have expensive habits or waste their money on unnecessary things and have nothing left for the important things. I regularly hear people say about Christmas time that now their Christmas shopping is done they may have some left for their bills. Who in their right mind buys useless Christmas gifts that are usually unwanted and neglects their bills doing so? That is nothing but insanity.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    9:34pm
    Agree with you Kathleen. Monopolising all wealth in the hands of a few does not help anybody as the rich bank their money and everybody else spends theirs. The latter is what makes the system work and which created wealth, even for rich folk.
    OG is pushing the agenda of this government and its wealthy sponsors. Imbecilic point of view because it defies how financial systems function and stay healthy.
    Anonymous
    8th Jun 2018
    5:10pm
    OG, of course you spend little because you have no housing costs - which consume 1/3rd to 1/2 the average budget! Honestly, how can you be so arrogant!

    7th Jun 2018
    11:15am
    Economic growth, particularly under the Rightarded government currently in power, benefits the rich, not the poor.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    11:36am
    Correct. Of course the media owned and controlled by the rich will never tell you that. God forbid they should lose control of the country.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    12:15pm
    Economic growth benefits everyone
    1000 jobs created every day
    We are at full employment
    We will have a budget surplus by 2021
    This years expectied deficit will come in under forecast
    The economy is very healthy and all Australians are reaping the rewards
    Grateful
    7th Jun 2018
    1:16pm
    Raphael. ALL Australians are reaping the rewards"!!!.
    Are you serious. You sound like a commentator on Fox News. GET serious or be ignored.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    1:40pm
    Statistics tell a clear tale but be aware that an 'average' can totally distort the truth. For example, one figure the right wing trolls love to use is 'average pay increase' rather than MEDIA pay increase.
    Average pay increase hides the huge increases occurring at the top or bottom. Media pay increase gives a much clearer picture. You'll seldom see official figures using the median because politicians do not want to be found out lying. The current lot have taken this to a level never before seen.
    Rae
    7th Jun 2018
    2:12pm
    That's great for those employed Raphael but until the CPI reflects reality many retirees will continue to suffer cost of living increases unfunded.
    Triss
    7th Jun 2018
    2:15pm
    Never, ever, vote multimillionaires into positions of power, all they do is use that power to make themselves and their wealthy business mates even wealthier.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:50pm
    Full employment? So why does the dishonest government have to pretend unemployment is 10% lower than it really is by claiming anyone working 1 hour per week is ''employed''.

    Raphael, you are full of it! Unemployment is running at around 14%, and every job created is matched by another immigrant wanting work. Stop lying please. It's an insult to those who want to see GENUINE improvement in our society, and to the poor suffering unemployed who are desperate for jobs that just DO NOT EXIST.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    3:08pm
    Yes guys. Until the CPI is not falsified it will have no relevance. The truth will come out in time but by then the cat will have escaped the bag...as normal.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    3:11pm
    CPI figures are released by the ABS. it is apolitical

    I suppose if god forbid, labor come back in to power, Mick will agree with the CPI figures then
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    3:48pm
    CPI figures are compiled using a set number of criteria. This can be manipulated and I'd love to know whose fingerprints are on this one.

    Your normal government sponsored post does nix for me Raphael as I understand who you are. I'll savage Labor equally if it betrays the nation like your current employer. Please take me to task if I do otherwise........unless of course you start your normal BS about 'pink batts and school halls' nonsense intended for the mentally challenged amongst us.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Jun 2018
    5:34pm
    Mick the Labor Troll, the 3 measures of Central Tendency (Average) are Mean, Median and Mode. It might be a good idea to get your facts straight before posting crap. There is no such measure as MEDIA.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    9:45pm
    Glad to see you understand the 3 measures of central tendency Retired Knowall. What, no discussion of 'variation'? Disappointing.
    Not sure what your last bit is on. Sounds like you've had a few too many mate.

    The point I made about the CPI is valid. What they serve up in no way presents a fair value. It's fake.

    Labor troll? Funny label given that I do not vote for either side. However, given the current dictatorship I will have no choice this time around.....but will revert to Independents once the current bunch are out. By all means vote for your Liberal Party hack.
    Linda
    7th Jun 2018
    11:44am
    I suppose, in these times when so many ask what is in it for me, instead of what is best for all, we see these bribes at election time to get votes. I remains irresponsible to continuously mess around with retired people on fixed incomes who made their plans when the rules were different. That alone speaks volumes. This government is ruining the ABC, offering hardship to contact centrelink, has poor economic management and funding for things that make us strong via education and homeownership, mistreating all the young folks starting out via policy decisons on tax perks for property investors, wooing wealthy foreign investors and being corrupt in general, leaves me feeling very concerned about Australia in general. We truly are all in this together. To say they are the best managers of the economy is completely false. I don't trust the government we have just now. What ever they do, the only action we subjects can take is to vote and to indicate what we support and do not support in a voice loud enough to be heard. I hope the erra of buying votes with pork barrel tactics is soon to be over. We could be doing so much better as a nation if we put some energy and resources into alternative renewable energy and start some innovation and jobs in that area.
    Rae
    7th Jun 2018
    2:13pm
    Too right Linda. They have dusted off that fast train promise once again haha and expect us to believe them. Not going to happen.

    7th Jun 2018
    12:11pm
    What a nonsensical article
    1. House price softening has nil impact on retiree standard of living for homeowners. Non homeowners benefit in that they can buy houses at cheaper prices

    2. Household spending remained stagnant . This is fantastic for pensioners . Their pension increases every year with CPI so for pensioners it has a positive or at worst nil impact
    3 income rises still teaching inflation the article says . Well great - so is OAP, so what’s the problem
    3 . Assets losing value - so what . Just a blip . Prices don’t keep going up and up without market correction
    Sundays
    7th Jun 2018
    12:23pm
    I wish bank interest would go up. We have a small amount in savings earning 0.8%. Every three months, I have to phone the bank and ask nicely (beg) for them to give me a discretionary interest of 2.2%. They always do, so clearly can afford to
    KSS
    7th Jun 2018
    12:51pm
    1. Softening house prices only affects people IF they have to sell. And this is the same for everyone not just pensioners. And even then, they will still 'make money' beyond what they originally bought it for (assuming they did not buy at the recent high price point).

    2. If household spending is static then pensioners are not being left behind and remain where they were a year ago - along with everyone else.

    3. The pension has had two increases totalling 2.19% (1.5% + 0.69%) since September 2017. Small I grant you, but far more than my salary rose in the same period.

    4. Any asset is only worth what its worth when you sell it. Daily, weekly, monthly or annual valuation fluctuations up or down are meaningless until the asset is sold. It is only then that any profit/loss is realised. And this is not limited to pensioners either!

    All up pensioners seem no worse off than they were a year ago.
    Mad as Hell
    7th Jun 2018
    1:01pm
    From January 2017 330,000 pensioners were worse off thanks to the LNP and Greens
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    1:44pm
    Gee KSS...you are starting to sound like troll Raphael.

    You miss one important fact: INFLATION. By all means tell me about the 'official' published inflation rate. It is being fabricated. All YOU need to do is go through the list of price increases on the top 10 items we all spend money on and you'll have it. What do you say? Interested?
    Rae
    7th Jun 2018
    2:17pm
    From January 2016 42000 retirees were totally robbed of promised part pensions and had all non concessional amounts and lump sums "deemed" unrealistically. No grandfathering and no options to change anything and the disadvantage rule was well and truly broken by the LNP, ALP and the Greens.
    GrayComputing
    7th Jun 2018
    2:41pm
    Raphael are you even a pensioner and a independent unpaid for commentator?
    If not get off the site or you will be reported as a WEB TROLL.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:43pm
    ''Any asset is only worth what its worth when you sell it. Daily, weekly, monthly or annual valuation fluctuations up or down are meaningless until the asset is sold. It is only then that any profit/loss is realised. And this is not limited to pensioners either!''

    Correct, KSS. Which is why forcing pensioners to spend their capital creates major problems for those trying to plan and budget for later retirement. Those compelled to sell assets at low prices to make up lost pension income are suffering unfair loss and hence are WORSE OFF than they were a year or two ago - and many will be much, much worse off than several years ago. It may be all very well for those who bought assets at low prices some time back, but many paid much more for their assets than they are worth today - especially if they are invested in property.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:44pm
    Or banks or Telstra - which vast numbers of retirees did invest in with high hopes of strong returns.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:51pm
    OGR if you worry about the price of shares then you should not be invested in them. The only time I worry is when they go up too fast and become expensive then I sell and buy them back at a lower price.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    3:03pm
    GrayComputing - if you have a problem with posters who do not subscribe to the negative divisive and deceitful rhetoric of the left, I suggest you dont read my posts.
    You guys should try voicing sound arguments instead of shouting down good ones
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    3:11pm
    Read your posts??? They are right wing government sponsored crap. All of them. You work for the government. That's why the BS you put up as comment is worthless. Like your pitiful soul Raphael. End of argument.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    4:45pm
    Mick your posts are a lot more Labor sponsored than anyone else's post as well. Take off your blinkers and you might see the real world.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    5:47pm
    OG, you really are stupid. On the one hand you say I shouldn't worry about the price of shares. On the other you claim retirees should be forced to spend their capital. Well - IDIOT - you can't spend your capital if it's tied up in shares, and if you have to sell them to spend then you have to worry about the share price. Only a stupid moron would argue with that. But then, you are typical of the arrogant, ignorant rich - so out of touch that you can't make a sensible statement, or even have a logical thought. You just ASSUME everyone is rolling in it like you are.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    9:48pm
    OG - I see where you are coming from. Maybe my ideals align with Labor. No apologies for being a decent human being. Oh yes....I do live in the real world and I DO see the crooks in suits for who and what they are. Sadly it appears you are with 'em.

    You on the other hand are clearly cash for comment.
    Rae
    8th Jun 2018
    7:41am
    OGR unless you understand the sharemarket you should keep out of it. Unfortunately the Superannuation Guarantee has dumped PAYG workers into it. Some are in funds that don't lose their capital very often.

    The sharemarket works in cycles as does property and bonds.

    We have been through a great big boom so there has been lots of money made by share investors.This is fuelled by all that Central Bank debt. The money always goes somewhere. If you refuse to play in the game you can't crucify others because they do and some of them are winners.

    A lot of Australians invest for dividends. And the franking credits available here. They may also trade using price to earnings or some other measure. Selling high and buying low is the desired formula.Surprisingly many inexperienced sell low and buy high for some strange reason and that gives the sharemarket not only the edge but a bad reputation.

    Some of us invest in overseas sharemarkets and bond markets using timing and predictions of currency moves. Just about all the profit comes from Capital Gains as most foreign companies don't pay dividends. You have to sell and take the capital gain and yes spend some of it too. It is okay to make money and to spend it.

    People lose out by holding onto losing assets when they should sell, not selling when prices rise but just hope they'll get higher and higher. Taking profits seems to be the hard part.

    I hope not too many regret not taking some of the gains this time around. Yes the cycles go round and round and round.

    And there are many exotic trades to be found as well which is why OG loves now when volatility makes both buying and selling worth a gamble.

    Calling others stupid for making money in the markets is not a great idea or calling those who can successfully trade and invest IDIOT.

    No you don't have to worry about the share price at all because you set sell signals both for a fall or a gain at the point of the trade. There isn't too much risk that way.

    This article is pointless because there will always be winners and losers when you play in the markets. Hopefully you win more than you lose and get out before the top turns down.

    If anything blame Keating for dumping everyone into the game but not ensuring the best players were employed to handle the buying and selling because most people can't do it.

    Too scared to buy low and too scared to sell high.

    Fear and Greed run the markets.

    And yes MICK the shonks in suits feed on that Fear and Greed too.

    There are plenty of scammers wanting your money in the great big financial industry our Governments have created with our forced savings.
    Anonymous
    8th Jun 2018
    5:30pm
    Rae, I'm not calling anyone stupid for winning in the share market. Good luck to them. I'm saying OG is stupid to imply that everyone should be expected to be an expert and make money in the market and if they lack that expertise, they deserve to suffer hardship. The government should not be putting people in the position where their only option is to enter into financial dealings for which they don't have sufficient expertise. And OG is wrong and cruel to support policies that punish people for not having sufficient expertise - because the fact is that it's those who were deprived of education and opportunity who are least likely to be able to profit from share trading and similar investments. Our country purports to support the disadvantaged, but then persecutes people for being disadvantage in that area. And OG is supporting policies that not only persecute those who are disadvantaged in terms of financial education and confidence to trade shares, but also policies that disadvantage those same people for having struggled to save for their retirement.

    If the government is going to deny pensions to people for having saved, our society should have the DECENCY to demand that those who suffered deprivation in earlier life and don't have substantial financial savvy have access to reasonably secure investment options that deliver a fair living income and aren't just left to suffer hardship. OG is stupid not to appreciate that persecuting people for saving - when there is no help or safety net to ensure their savings return satisfactory income - will ultimately result in a lot more people drawing a lot higher pension.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Jun 2018
    8:20am
    Whatever happened to the old adage that success comes with hard work instead of whinging? OGR people are not disadvantaged so much as lazy in that they want everything just handed to them instead of putting in the effort to learn. No body suffers hardship but a lot suffer from laziness instead.
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2018
    9:47am
    That's the convenient LIE the privileged love to peddle to ease their guilt, VGB, but they KNOW IT'S A LIE. Hard work doesn't deliver success. First you need opportunity to work in jobs that pay a decent income. Those who start life in poverty, deprived of basics, abused and victims of injustice never get the opportunity to do anything other than work their guts out for peanuts. They are NOT lazy! They work far harder than any of the stinking vile privileged gloaters wallowing in their inherited wealth and gains from exploitation and corruption.

    And anyone who claims nobody suffers hardship is an ignorant, arrogant, stinking vile LIAR. But then, you have confessed your lack of integrity and ethics, so what should we expect from someone who steals from the public to load up theirs and their families obscene wealth? Certainly we know you are incapable of any kind of honesty or integrity - and therefore, by definition, of acknowledging the injustice you perpetrate and support and the hardship it causes.

    BTW. I overcame disadvantage to become moderately comfortable - but it was bloody hard! Yes, it can be done in some circumstances, but disadvantage is very real, and it causes hardship that most would not have a hope of overcoming - certainly not the weak, arrogant, ignorant, overpaid privileged ''entitled'' brigade who are so quick to condemn anyone who is doing it tough, but who bellyache endlessly about paying tax.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Jun 2018
    12:21pm
    I agree OGR if you can get yourself out of poverty anyone can. All it takes is some effort instead of just whinging hoping others will take pity on you. That's what's wrong with the Labor party in Australia today and this country will never prosper with a government that gives to the whingers and punishes those who do well. Well those who do well will just sit back and wait for better opportunities in the future and let the country crumble under a Labor government. The wealthy have choices and they will choose to not invest if the investment environment does not suit them.
    Anonymous
    10th Jun 2018
    2:06pm
    WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG, ARROGANT VGB.

    The reasons SOME people escape poverty are complex, but in EVERY instance there is are key factors that are missing in the circumstances of those who fail. It has NOTHING to do with whinging or wanting pity. Most who are struggling in poverty don't! It has nothing to do with effort or hard work. Most poor folk work VERY hard. It has to do with mental health, guidance, and opportunity. It has to do with education and skills and inherent intelligence. It has to do with a vast range of factors that the arrogant self-serving will never even TRY to understand.

    I agree that the country won't prosper with a government that punished those who do well - which is why I object to the stinking and harmful policies of the LNP. They are doing just that - punishing those who struggle and achieve modestly to hand out to the rich, but allowing the poor to suffer. Labour also has it all wrong, but at least they do care about the disadvantaged and they don't support giving massive handouts to the wealthy.

    Frankly, I don't support either party. I think they are both contemptible. But if it's a choice, then it's Labor. If I can, I'll vote independent. Like George, I'll be looking for a candidate who understands how damaging the assets test is, and preferably one who supports a universal pension - which is the ONLY way to support the poor without punishing those who worked very hard and achieved modest success.
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    12:29pm
    We all know that. Globalisation has been designed for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. We all know which category people fall in. Middle and working classes have been systematically melted into the poor category.

    If our country has 25 consecutive years of economic growth and the wages have reached a stagnation, who do you think getting the bounty of this land? Definitely not you and I. The spoil is the hand of the big end of town and the multi-national enterprises, who pay little or no tax for government's coffer.

    These leakages from our economy are encouraged by that belief in small government, the natural supply and demand - a so-called invisible hand. This can only work when there is a perfect market condition. This is not possible in Australia because firstly the size of our population is not big enough to support such a market condition. Secondly, despite the current government encourages overseas investments in Australia, our economy is not big enough to carter for a perfect competition condition. Thirdly, contracting our all our public utilities is playing havoc to the fair work for a fair pay - overseas investors can bring in their own workers via 457 visa resulting bigger and better profit to take home overseas. We have to pay tax to support our GDP and when the utilities completed, you and I have to pay the usage of these utilities. It comes to the question why do we pay taxes in the first place.

    Who does the government try to kid? Unless the size of the GDP "pie" has physically grown and is available for domestic consumption for a fair distribution of wealth through the encouragement of hard work by a fair tax system and social security, we are all losers. If the size of the GDP Pie remains the same and some of it is not available for domestic consumption, any changes of the tax system are only bringing about the concept of " robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think the Labour Party has to rethink their strategy for the next election on this matter. It is no good to divide the nation by creating a class war or a generation war. Divisiveness in politics is a dangerous game to play.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    3:13pm
    'Globilisation' = the rich in all countries driving down their own tax rates by pitting country against country. In wrestling this is known as a Tag Team Event. Nothing coincidental about it. Sadly the poor souls who vote have no idea that they are being played by the rich who seek to steal from them and on the way turn them into modern day slaves.
    Farside
    7th Jun 2018
    3:26pm
    Looking at GDP as a measure of improved prosperity on its own can be misleading as population growth will increase GDP. A better indication is GDP per capita, which reflects more closely what is happening overall.
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    3:57pm
    Farside, the measure of GDP per capita means everyone is equal. Do you think we live a society where everyone is equal? If we are, we wouldn't be complaining about the Haves and the Haves Not.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    4:51pm
    But WHO oversees the calculation of the CPI and the criteria used to arrive at the figures.
    Somebody please try and tell me the cost of living is the same as it was 5 years ago. In that time the official CPI increase is in the order of 9%. Let's do the sums:

    Rents: A $300 house is now $327? Try $500.
    Your $80 grocery bill is now only $87.20? Try $130.
    Your $60 fuel bill is now $65.40? Try $90+
    Your $500 house insurance is now $545? Try $800.
    And so it goes on and on.

    CPI of 9% for the last 5 years. Lies and more lies with the mainstream media playing along. The truth WILL come out at some time but we are all feeling this now. The REAL CPI is likely running at 10% pa.
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    4:58pm
    Mick, do you know how many CPIs we have? If not, go to the Website of Bureau of Statistics to have a look.

    One for the general living; One for certain industry, one for housing, etc, etc.

    Politicians love to pick the ones convenient to their arguments.

    Good luck.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    5:34pm
    Mick your prices are not near enough for the CPI to be running at 10% pa. Your figures work out less than 4% pa.
    Rae
    7th Jun 2018
    6:33pm
    A CPI of 4% a year would be very good for the economy and encourage spending in local businesses.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    9:55pm
    The point I was trying to make is that the REAL cost of living CPI is not running at around 3% as per the official figures. It is much more but we are served a bogus number to keep us in check. If people knew what their senses tell them through inability to pay bills there would be strikes and mass protests.
    A CPI of 4% is good for investors. This is why you buy a house for $200,000 and sell it for $500,000 ten yeas later - inflation! So your bank loan effectively becomes less every year as the price of everything goes up and wages go up to keep up. Healthy for many. Unhealthy for some.
    Farside
    12th Jun 2018
    11:17am
    Curious, you misunderstand GDP per capita. It does not mean everyone is equal; of course the GDP is distributed across haves and have-nots. It simply reflects the overall trend in prosperity more accurately than GDP itself.
    Hairy
    7th Jun 2018
    12:42pm
    Economic growth 1000 jobs a day full employment the propaganda for idiots.the only people benefiting and RAPING NOT REAPING is this pack of bloody dogs in Canberra.
    Rosret
    7th Jun 2018
    12:55pm
    I am rather perplexed as to the political blame game in comments.
    The economy is booming? That's good.
    The minimum wage and pension rates will increase - that's good.
    Interest rates will increase - that's good for retirees - not good for new home owners.
    The juggling act between a potential housing boom collapse and private superannuation returns will continue for quite some time.
    The United States GFC caused this dilemma - it is how our Government handles the butterfly effect that what will show the Australian population what our economic leaders are made of.
    Rae
    10th Jun 2018
    8:04am
    Actually the GFC was the child of the Central Banks who all thought derivatives on housing a great idea until it wasn't. It was actually the French Banks in trouble first and that's why Greece got slammed. Americans created the things but not one Central Bank, the IMF or the BIS raised a bit of concern about them.

    They couldn't price the risk on Greek loans and it became apparent that nobody could track down the risky assets. They were all jumbled up together.

    Next time will be different. It'll be triggered by excess debt as it always is but we don't know who will pull the trigger or what sort of weapon it will be or where.

    I wouldn't hold bank shares now in Australia as the banks are in the poo for lending too much on overpriced real estate.There will be bargains in share prices soon enough.

    Brisbane unit market is down 20% already and I suspect the other cities will follow them down.

    Biggest problem people have is believing "wealth" is some sort of finite thing when it's a moving feast until you sell and take the profits.

    The US had trouble because everyone panicked and stopped spending and stopped borrowing. That crashed Main Street. It was a demand collapse recession. The US is booming now again. The DOW has never been this high before.

    We didn't have that here but we could if the Government and media aren't careful.Their belief that it is all about them, the wealthy investors, is overdone. It's dangerous to indulge in hubris and think your control of the supply will always pump up the economy because if all the households stop spending and borrowing our economy will also collapse.

    Governments can handle stuff for all they are worth and still miss getting the people onside and comfortable. Scare them and all Hell breaks loose.

    I believe our Government has lost the ability to see the danger of not providing enough bread and circuses for everybody.
    floss
    7th Jun 2018
    1:03pm
    Raphael if I say our income has fallen in the last three years would I not know,how the bloody hell would you know what our situation is.How does the C.P.I .increase my financial situation.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    1:38pm
    Sharemarket has gone up 30% in the last few years
    If your superannuation is in the pension phase then you are drawing a fixed %age every year
    You must have made some bad investment decisions for your income to drop or you’ve been spending down on capital
    Either way since you are not eligible for OAP you’re doing very well
    Can’t blame the economy or the government for the lifestyle and investment decisions you made
    HarrysOpinion
    7th Jun 2018
    1:56pm
    CPI does not improve old age pensioner's financial situation. CPI is selective and subject to manipulation by the government statisticians.
    The Liberals, as soon as they won government, changed the age pension indexation model that resulted in at least 50% reduction in the annual pension increase when compared to under Labor.
    So, yes, we can blame this government for driving OAPs to fringe of poverty.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:37pm
    Floss, Raphael is an LNP troll. He'll say anything that suits the stinking rich man's agenda. Like you, I've suffered a big drop in income. To avoid losing $14,000 a year in the pension assets test change, I went back to work, but I earn less than that and have to pay tax on it! Yes, share values have risen, but for some the rises only compensate for past falls and really asset values are not particularly relevant unless you are selling the asset, because what goes up can just as easily come down - and we are seeing falls right now. For retirees, it's INCOME that counts, which is why the assets test is patently unfair and economically destructive. Friends who saved half what I did have incomes $20,000 per annum higher than mine with no worries and no management obligations.

    The system is BROKEN. And retirees are suffering for the massive failure of the government either to manage the economy well or to fix the ridiculous policies that are causing so much social and economic harm. (Well... fix? No. The LNP idiots made it a hundred times worse!)
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:39pm
    If you left your money in the bank then yes your income has fallen as having money in the bank is not a good investment at all. Most years you lose purchasing after inflation and tax.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:45pm
    If you invested in blue chip shares, like banks and Telstra, you probably lost.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:49pm
    OGR it depends on when you invested in them. CBA at $5.40 and WBC at $3 and NAB at $5 SUN at $2 were great investments and pay what it cost per in share in dividends a year now. I have got my capital back many times over already and they will continue to pay me going forward. I sold a few SUN to buy a new car a few years back and if I had left the money in the bank it would have cost many times my initial investment to buy that car.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:51pm
    Rainey - you say you earn less than $14,000 and you PAY TAX?

    Boy you tell some doosies
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:53pm
    Of course it depends when you invested... which is a sound reason why the fortunate and privileged should have a little empathy and consideration for those who didn't have the opportunity to invest until more recently - and STOP BEING SUCH MEAN BULLIES.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:55pm
    I said that's what I earn from work, Raphael. I DID NOT say that was my total income. I had already stated that I went back to work because I would suffer huge loss in the pension assets test change. Obviously you either don't read or are too brainless to comprehend. No wonder you support the LNP blindly!
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    2:55pm
    I said that's what I earn from work, Raphael. I DID NOT say that was my total income. I had already stated that I went back to work because I would suffer huge loss in the pension assets test change. Obviously you either don't read or are too brainless to comprehend. No wonder you support the LNP blindly!
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:55pm
    OGR it's probably as good time as ever now to invest in banks and Telstra.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    3:05pm
    Correct Geezer.
    Rainey - instead of whinging about your predicament why dont you buy some NAB or CBA shares - great income currently (!0%) with significant cap gain potential
    Those who can, do. Those who cant, whinge
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    4:56pm
    OG - please cut the crap. Your $5.40 CBA may have done well for you but WHAT ARE THEY WORTH NOW? That is the only question.

    The answer is not clear. Forgetting the banking inquiry sideshow the pertinent question to ask is 'what will be the role of banks if cryptocurrencies become the norm and people bypass banks altogether'? Already happening: bitcoin, ApplPay, etc.

    You really do annoy me with some things you come out with. I thought you had greater intelligence but maybe I have this wrong. Get it right!
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    4:58pm
    OGR - understand you are conversing with a couple of government paid trolls here. Believe anything they say with a grain of salt. We already know most of it is propaganda for the boss so don't get upset. These guys are worthless human beings so it becomes banter with the devil for what it is worth.
    Cheers
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    5:32pm
    Privileged dunces, born with a silver spoon, have no idea what life is like for others. Buy shares now? With what? Fresh air? My income has been slashed by a stinking vile government cheating me out of what I planned and saved to have. I'm now draining my savings. How the hell would I BUY assets? This is how out-of-touch the LNP and their troll supporters are. They just have no comprehension of reality.

    No, Raphael... I don't whinge. I'm very content with my life. I have wonderful PEOPLE in it, and I'm loved and appreciated, and I enjoy my work and my hobbies. That's worth far more than money. But the only way I could buy shares now is to sell other assets AT A LOSS, which really wouldn't make much sense. I have to sell some at a loss to meet living expenses because of what a stinking vile cheating government did to me. I am trying to keep my losses to a minimum - not that there's any real gain in doing so. If I halved my assets I'd have $20,000 more income annually! That's how IDIOTIC is the system the morons in the LNP have imposed.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    5:38pm
    Don't whinge? What do you call your last post? I say it was none other than a big fat whinge.

    For heavens sake spend down your assets so you get the OAP and stop whinging about it not being fair. Nothing in life is ever fair.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    6:04pm
    Rainey - you can buy shares taken with a line of credit against your assets
    Pay 4.5% interest and in return get 10% in dividends plus capital gains

    OR as Geezer advised (for free) sell down and get the extra $20k. You can spend $10k and save the other $10k
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    6:27pm
    Raphael, I would never be stupid enough to use borrowed money to buy shares. Nobody knows what the future holds, but there are some very grim predictions. Very few shares pay 10% in dividends, and many result in capital losses - not gains.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    6:41pm
    Raphael is right you san sell down your shares at any time. However smart people don't have all their funds tied up in growth assets as they know that if one does they are sure to need the money at a low point in markets and be forced to sell. I hold enough cash to tied me over for about 3 years myself.
    Anonymous
    8th Jun 2018
    5:38pm
    Lucky you to have enough to hold that much cash and still earn an income sufficient to live on. But then, lucky you not to have the expenses we have, OG. Feeding five orphaned grandchildren for 14 weeks each year, and driving long distances regularly to help children in crisis, eats up huge chunks of savings. Until last year, we were also transporting an aged relative to and from the city twice weekly for medical care and shopping etc. and driving to an aged care home daily to visit. Of course in your world people wouldn't care for their loved ones. They would just leave them to rot in isolation and focus on making money. If I'd done that, I'd probably be quite wealthy - but only in monetary terms, which doesn't count. I'd much rather be rich in love and happiness - and respected as a caring and empathetic person who listens to people in difficulties and offers help rather than condemnation and insults.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Jun 2018
    8:26am
    OGR how do you know OG doesn't have such expenses too. I remembering him saying he looks after young people until they get on their feet and that doesn't come cheaply. I also believe he volunteers in aged care facilities and helps a lot of elderly people as well. He must do something to have been nominated as citizen of the Year. You have no idea at al because you are too tied up in your own whinging world.
    Anonymous
    10th Jun 2018
    2:10pm
    VGB, what I know is that OG lies. It is simply not possible to support young people until they get on their feet and still spend LESS than the OAP. I also know he doesn't pay rent and doesn't own a home, so apparently he houses those young people he supports in his caravan or tent!!!

    His stories are so inconsistent and impossible that it's obvious he's a paid troll, and most here know it.

    And I DO NOT whinge, STUPID. I merely object to a wrongful, inefficient and economically harmful system that we SHOULD all be banding together to insist is reformed. Sadly, some here are just too selfish and self-serving to care about what is good for the nation.
    Rae
    7th Jun 2018
    2:08pm
    I've made money during the boom in the markets fuelled by that 600 trillion of debt and thousands of trillions of derivatives and taken the profits for a couple of nice trips.

    The ASX topped out last Spring and it is looking very unstable. International shares are fine but the fast money is now shorting everything.

    "Wealth" is an illusion.

    The CPI is the killer though. 0.9 when the GDP is 3.1 is a total rip off right there.

    As I've said before the CPI is rigged against us.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    2:41pm
    I just love the volatility of markets at present as it gives lots of opportunities.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    5:01pm
    Rae: the CPI is not 3.1%. We all feel the pain of costs rising so take heart that this is a game against people who believe governments are governing for the country with The Tooth Fairy as the PM.
    As I keep saying.....we are involved in class warfare and currently being worked over by the rich.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    5:40pm
    Mick I'd say the CPI was 3.1% or even less . Prices have not risen much over the last 10 years at all.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    6:24pm
    Not the prices of the luxury items you buy, OG. We remember that you don't own a home - so no rates, water, home insurance - and you don't rent, and therefore probably no electricity, gas or water. Those are the things that have hit those on low incomes hardest. Then there is food - which HAS skyrocketed. And of course petrol and car registration and insurance.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    6:51pm
    Food hasn't risen much in 10 years I still spend about the same as I did 10 years ago. Petrol taken care of by buying oil companies as one cancels other out. I fill my car up at the petrol station with a smile on my face knowing I am earning more with my oil shares than the extra it costs in fuel. Our electricity bills are very low as we have lots of solar and turn nearly everything off after dark. We have wood heating and solar hot water. We also have our own water tanks so water bills are very low too. Biggest cost in internet and phone at about $50 a month.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    10:00pm
    OG - you are full of it. Food prices have not risen much over 10 years? Ha, ha, ha.
    Then you explain away the cost of fuel with oil shares and the cost of electricity with a wood fire?

    Readers will understand the costs above. They are real. They are measurable. And they do explain how people cannot keep up as their bosses refuse to give them pay rises whilst claiming poverty and buying another luxury car or holiday house.
    As I keep saying you have no credibility. Sorry.
    Retired Knowall
    8th Jun 2018
    7:43am
    Cost of food in Australia increased 0.50 percent year-on-year in the first quarter of 2018. Food Inflation in Australia averaged 5.38 percent from 1973 until 2018, reaching an all time high of 20.60 percent in the fourth quarter of 1973 and a record low of -3.20 percent in the second quarter of 2012.
    Anonymous
    8th Jun 2018
    3:13pm
    No Mick
    Right wing governments realize that the more tax revenue they earn the bigger government gets
    It’s best to have a low tax take , small government and let entrepreneurship thrive creating jobs and growing the economy
    Labor taxes everyone so it can have big governments and wasteful expenditure
    Anonymous
    8th Jun 2018
    5:19pm
    Wood fires are banned in many areas, and firewood can be very hard to get and very expensive. Solar is great, but It doesn't run ovens, irons, etc. Petrol is a massive impost and one that's hard to avoid if you live a long way from medical care etc. Food has certainly skyrocketed in price over the past couple of years. Anyone who denies that is a liar! Both water and electricity have base costs that you pay whether you use it or not, and I don't know how they measure water but our bills suggest we used 5 times the average when we have been away and the only usage was timed garden watering from the tank. They quoted us $380 to check the meter, even if it's found faulty - and no refunds apply if it's wrong.

    Anyone who claims the cost of living hasn't risen substantially over the past two years - even for those who only buy essentials - is lying,
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Jun 2018
    8:31am
    Prices if anything have stabilised in last couple of years and quite frankly I seem to be spending less now than I did 2 years ago. Electricity, water and internet bills are lower. Groceries are about the same. Car and caravan insurance was less this year. Fuel is currently up but that is offset by a few oil company shares that are more than making up the difference.

    If your water meter is faulty they will replace and adjust your bill accordingly.
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2018
    9:15am
    You would be doing well, VGB, rorting the system to claim a pension when you are rich. Of course you wouldn't notice the price increases that are crippling genuine battlers. As for the water meter - clearly you live in fairy land. NOT in the shire I live in. The council is corrupt. Sacked twice, and somehow the same criminal arseholes got back into the same seats and are engaging in the same corruption.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Jun 2018
    12:37pm
    OGR that is rubbish about your water meter as if it's faulty then they have to replace it and bill you correctly. That is the law. My guess is you are using the water and looking for a scape goat for your bills.
    Anonymous
    10th Jun 2018
    1:57pm
    Well, once again your STUPID ILL-INFORMED guess is WRONG, VGB. Can't use water when you are not at home! And the outside taps all come from the tank, so if neighbours are using it, it's not metered water. Corrupt councils ignore the law. That's what corruption is.
    GrayComputing
    7th Jun 2018
    2:27pm
    It is time for all of us to rant at our MPs and Senators to take action for human decency and a huge stress reduction for pensioners

    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    A pension is not welfare.

    Most economist say we will save taxpayers money by dropping asset testing because of the massive overheads cost in running Centrelink and the 10,000 conflicting rules.

    Hiring more Centrelink staff will only increase taxpayer’s costs for processing the creeping insane red tape monster system politicians and well paid bureaucrats have created.

    Help scrap it now. Become a hero.

    Even poorer New Zealand has a NO ASSET pension so it is cheaper and user friendly.

    Why worry that few million$ earners get it too. That is peanuts to them, not enough for a good vintage champagne.

    Do retired and retiring people really look forward and want 100++ visits to/from Centrelink and be part of 3 million waiting queues and lost calls?

    Does your MP really like being part of the system that allows this indirect abuse of the elderly?

    This abuse is actually sponsored by our government and forced down to Centrelink and borders on a criminal act.

    Why do MPs normally compassionate persons let this Centrelink abuse happen at taxpayers’ expense?

    Some opposition and independent MPs stand to lose their chance at being part of the needed government changes

    Tell our MP and senators NOW that these criminal asset tests for a pension must be dropped now.

    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    Grateful
    7th Jun 2018
    3:44pm
    And why do you think that this government want to cut individuals' taxes? It's "meant" to keep the population a bit happier, but, it's really a heavily disguised government "welfare" payment to the top end of town, their mates, to save them from putting up wages and preventing the Reserve Bank from doing what really is economically sensible in raising interest rates, but would be a political disaster to any sitting government.
    And how disingenuous was that last survey on reducing the Company Tax rate. The question asked was do you think the tax rate should be reduced immediately or brought in over time. 60% gave one answer and the government immediately spruiked that 60% of Australians surveyed were "in favour of cutting the Company Tax rate"!!!!
    Lies, damn lies and politicians.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    3:51pm
    Wrong they want to cut people's tax because those paying tax deserve a bit extra to spend for working hard for the nation.
    Grateful
    7th Jun 2018
    4:21pm
    Well Old Geezer will you be supporting the Labor Party who are promising TWICE as much??
    The governments "promise" is an insult and just tokenism for the low paid worker and a far too generous gift to those who least need it. Again, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
    And if they want to reward those that have "worked hard for the nation", then, why don't they give a similar rise to Age Pensioners, or, don't you think that they worked hard enough for the nation?
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    4:26pm
    The cuts to corporate tax is to make level the playing field and will boost corporate investment and jobs
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    4:42pm
    No I wont support the Labor party while they have that insane franking credit on the table. I have already written to the local member telling them that I will not vote for them while it is on the table as well. I live in a very marginal electorate so every vote counts.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    4:43pm
    Company rates need to be halves from 30% to 15%.
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    4:47pm
    What we are talking about is the distribution of wealth in our country through the tax system.

    Here is the scenario. The argument for the company tax cut is to have the trigger effects on fuller employment and higher wages for the workers. However, evidence from the overseas shows no support for this assumption. If anything can go by the overseas evidence, either or both the big companies and shareholders will ripe the benefits of these tax cuts. We leave with a higher level of unemployment, lower wages, and less money to invest domestically. A certain political party even want to take away your dividend credits.

    The politicians can't see outside the box. Stop dividing the country by the class and intergenerational warfare. Economic stimulus cannot be based on the ruling class. History has repeatedly shown the failure of the feudal system, the imperial system and pseudo-socialism. The rise of capitalism depended on the economic condition of comparative advantages in a market. Globalisation has dismantled all these economic conditions because the rich want more.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    5:04pm
    Argument for lower tax rate is also so that profits are kept and taxes paid in Oz not offshore
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    5:08pm
    Good post Grateful.

    Curious - you need to stop believing that governments, and specifically the current one, are governing for the country. This lot are fixated on taking from average citizens and giving this to the very rich.
    The 'Trickle Down Economics' lie is a fabrication from Turnbull and his like minded cronies. There is sufficient evidence from the United States where this scam ran for years. The net result was that the rich became mega wealthy beyond their wildest dreams and average citizens became dirt poor. This is what THIS GOVERNMENT is doing here.
    I suggest we all wake up to this and vote out any MPs who voted for this legislation and I reiterate any MP from ANY PARTY.

    Australia does not need open class warfare. It's bad enough the rich are heading to offshore Tax Shelters but those who have not yet done so are taking the 'no tax for us' line and their paid stooges are delivering. Vote them out!!!!!!
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    5:26pm
    We are losing billions in investments and potential taxes because our corporate tax rates are too high and uncompetitive

    Most multinationals prefer to have their asia pacific headquarters in Singapore and not in Australia

    Many huge corporations would rather pay tax in Ireland than other OECD countries

    Australia is losing out big time and the LNP are addressing this leakage from the economy
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    5:29pm
    Micks, I never said that governments are governing the country. They govern only the sectors supporting their party. However, you are right that we need to use people power to voice our concern.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    5:42pm
    Just because you feel that the government is not giving you enough sweets that does not mean they not governing the country for everyone at all.
    Anonymous
    7th Jun 2018
    5:50pm
    When people don't have shelter, adequate food, warmth, and medical care, the government is NOT governing the country for everyone, OG. When it is handing out tax cuts to the rich and ripping off battlers, it is NOT governing for everyone. Battlers don't want ''sweets''. They want the basic necessities of life.

    The only people getting any ''sweets'' are the rich, and they are getting enough that they should all be dying of diabetes or sugar poisoning. Pity they wouldn't!
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    5:50pm
    Raphael, you are so optimistic that LNP is addressing this leakage from the economy. We need skills to provide right economic conditions to attract overseas investments besides tax rates.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    6:43pm
    If you think Labor is going to do a better job than the current government you are dreaming and have very short memories. I for one don't ever want to sell another Rudd or Gillard government in my lifetime.
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    8:12pm
    OG, if you think the government is governing everyone, how come they are not giving the same amount of tax cut to the low and middle-income earners as they propose for the big companies?
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    10:08pm
    To respond to a few of the posts above:

    1. Corporate tax cuts is the global game the rich are playing pitting one country against another to drive down taxes on them. When will they stop? When their tax rate is zero. Only morons subscribe to shooting yourself in both feet and countries need to take action to end the game. Better known as tariffs. America has started.

    2. Governments can govern the nation or for a selective group. The last two Labor governments governed for the nation as best it could from what I could see. Having a toxic Greens at your throat must have made it a nightmare.
    The Coalition is a rich man's government. Always the same deal: tax cuts for the wealthy and new taxes for workers. The current lot are much more than that and are working towards a dictatorship. First step is to totally control the media. It is getting close to that. Moving the tax burden onto workers is next and then will come the banning of opposition parties. Game over.
    Retired Knowall
    8th Jun 2018
    7:49am
    Corporate Tax Rate currently @ 30%, EFFECTIVE TAX RATE is approximately 14% with over 60% paying ZERO tax.
    Reduce the Tax to 15% by all means, BUT, remove the loopholes that permit Business Tax Minimization to Zero.
    Anonymous
    8th Jun 2018
    3:39pm
    No Mick
    Right wing governments realize that the more tax revenue they earn the bigger government gets
    It’s best to have a low tax take , small government and let entrepreneurship thrive creating jobs and growing the economy
    Labor taxes everyone so it can have big governments and wasteful expenditure
    inextratime
    7th Jun 2018
    4:03pm
    I know a few federal public servants who get 15% super and believe me, none of them are working hard for the nation...
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    4:12pm
    Nothing wrong with that as it's just part of their employment.
    Grateful
    7th Jun 2018
    4:24pm
    Employment" doesn't always mean working hard?????
    Most of those jobs are sinecures.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    4:43pm
    I see you have had experience of not working hard then.
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    4:53pm
    inextratime, do you blame people not working hard these days?

    Employers do not empower their staff to do their jobs or do they properly train their staff. On top of that, the jobs most people have are not secured. I am glad that I have retired. I would be bored stiff under these circumstances, wouldn't you?
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    5:10pm
    OG - of course you agree with pollies and senior public servants scooping off their own private superannuation deals because you were a politician.
    Old Geezer
    7th Jun 2018
    5:29pm
    No Mick I'd never be a pollie as they don't pay enough for me to even give it a thought.
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    10:10pm
    Sorry but don't believe you.
    Your factless posts give you away and your right wing agenda which defies any logic or proof confirm my suspicions,
    GeorgeM
    7th Jun 2018
    7:47pm
    The answer to the question "Are retirees missing out?" is a big YES.
    Just ask the 420,000 pensioners who either had their income slashed by up to $14,000 or lost it altogether since Jan 2017.
    Further, for pensioners "their income has virtually flatlined in the past year".
    Overall, consumption is declining which also is a symptom of lack of confidence to spend.
    No argument - Pensioners are missing out on any so-called "growth".

    But, we are sure who has benefited - the rich especially CEOs getting massive bonuses (e.g. A.Joyce getting $20 Mil last year), the many rich NOT paying taxes or Negligible taxes, and the massive profits being funnelled overseas to foreign investors.

    Our politicians have sold us out! All MUST join in to get rid of them - both Liberals and Labor (throw in the odd Green where they exist) seat-warmers - we need new blood, especially Independents, to turn this country around to work for it's people.
    Curious
    7th Jun 2018
    8:15pm
    George, how about a new party - people power?
    MD
    7th Jun 2018
    8:47pm
    "the many rich NOT paying taxes or Negligible taxes" eh George ?

    How many? How much? How do they/those compare to tax negative numbers, ie, those that realize a bigger 'take' from the tax system than total paid in ?

    "new blood" - beware of what you wish for, the devil you know.
    Independents, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't any number of regulars herein singing their praises and admonishing us to support them prior to the most recent state hiccup that decimated the X factor ? It'd just be another mish mash mix of egotistical, back biting, double dealing dolts - politics reflects the populace after all.
    GeorgeM
    7th Jun 2018
    11:08pm
    Yes, Curious, a new party is needed, however it will take time to evolve, not in one election. Hence, currently the only option for those who want to change this disgusting Tag Team situation is to vote all current seat-warmers OUT!

    MD - you can stick with the devil you know, I am not converting anyone who likes to sleep with the devil! New blood can never be worse than the corrupted breeds of both parties which have run this country! Note also my comment about this being a first step.

    If your knowledge of the rich not paying fair taxes is missing, have a look at the link below (as a sample), and I am not interested to further your education as I believe committed people of either side of the Tag Team are lost causes. Hence, my post was meant for those who wish to understand the mess and want to do something about it.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/meet-the-48-millionaires-who-pay-no-income-tax-not-even-the-medicare-levy-20170419-gvnkxh.html
    Rae
    8th Jun 2018
    7:49am
    Howard made damn sure the rich living on cashflow from businesses and capital gains from investments and speculation don't pay much tax at all.

    Howard hated the bottom quartile with a hatred only beaten by Fraser who was arrogant enough to steal our Welfare Fund. But then we did let him do it.

    Delving into how luxury cars, mansions, rural retreats and boats are financed would be a great idea. We need a few hundred investigative ATO specialists employed to sort the thing out in my opinion.
    GeorgeM
    8th Jun 2018
    11:49am
    You got it all correct, Rae. My big concern is that all the tricks are already well known to ATO and the major political parties and yet the latter are not doing anything about it.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Jun 2018
    12:34pm
    The rich do business and buy things very differently than the rest of the country. However take away capital gains concessions, negative gearing etc and the country will be in recesion vety quickly as investment will dry up over night. This will hurt the poor and middle class while the rich just wait it out until there is a better investment environment or they move their money off shore.
    Anonymous
    10th Jun 2018
    1:59pm
    The only thing different about the way the rich do business is that they hire expensive accountants to avoid tax and they take bigger risks because they have the money and security to do so.

    This crap about taking away concessions plunging the nation into recession is rich man's propaganda, circulated to scare the poor into supporting the rich man's greed and selfishness.
    TREBOR
    7th Jun 2018
    9:39pm
    ummmm... lock in D), Eddie... yes.. D) - All the real action is hogged by the high fliers....
    MICK
    7th Jun 2018
    10:11pm
    That's CONTROL of the financial system. Then add to that hand picked right wing party hacks filling all the important positions in the country and you have what we have.

    7th Jun 2018
    10:20pm
    who wants to watch t.v. just read the comments of some in these columns, the y.l.c staff must be rolling in the aisles, here is our labor slave mickyboy telling us how hard it us to make ends meet, not so long ago he told the pensioners to go and live in the scrub if they could not afford him putting up the rent of his housing investments and he berates us about class warfare, he carries on how the better off ones use the rules to improve their tax rates, does anybody believes he does not use the rules to lessen his taxes on the income of his investments and then the absolute dinger, he has not voted labor for decades, maybe he can inform us the readers for which party he stood and absolutely got hammered into oblivion and yes mickyboy you can call me a liberal troll whatever it is better then being a slave to the labor party, by the way missing your double tremor always good for a laugh,
    then we hear of the one and only genuine rainmaker, what a dud, moans at every opportunity yet claimes he got more money then you can poke a stick at, shares in telstra, banks, etc, first thing he accuses you off when confronted with some, MOST, of his less then truthfull claims, is to call you a bigoted lnp supporter, even having the cheek of using capital letters to bring that point over and who can forget the wise??? words of our kathy, "our victorian labor premier, daniel andrews, is doing a great job" he broke the signed contract with this statement "this contract is not worth the paper it is written on", result: the cost to the victorian taxpayer $1.200.000.000-00 or his rorting of taxpayer's money by using so called electoral staff in the last electing, attempting to cover this by spending millions of dollars in the courts and losing the case, his attempts to kill off the c.f.a. country fire authority, so as to assist his union mates, do I have to go on kathy, I hate to see him doing a bad job, and what about old rudd, gave evidence from new york, must be worried he be locked up if he comes back, to explain why the insulation batts was such a disaster and send so many firms to the wall, labor mickie will tell you all about this and so the sorry list goes on, yes kathy if you want to destroy this country keep voting labor and don't think about your kids and grandkids, people complain about their house prices going down, just give us the price you bought it for and the price you can sell it for now, my guess, between 5 and 10 times the price you paid for it, I feel sorry for those who rent not for those who own their place, anyhow it is up to you all, what sort of country you want, then again reading some of the comments, brains are hard to come by.
    Anonymous
    8th Jun 2018
    5:09pm
    Yep. Definite absence of brains reflected in this load of meaningless waffle!

    8th Jun 2018
    6:56pm
    genuine shower, must be hard to be confronted with the truth for a change, when can we expect your next instalment of people telling you how hard it is to be a pensioner?
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2018
    9:11am
    Not being a pensioner, I wouldn't know Skank99, except what extensive surveys and studies reveal, what pensioners tell me, and what I see - most of which suggests that SFRs who are not far above the assets threshold have far less income than pensioners and are suffering unfairness because they have to erode their hard-earned savings to live while pensioners get handouts.

    Certainly what I see verifies that many pensioners are doing very well indeed - mostly by manipulating unethically around a flawed and unfair system. It also verifies that some are struggling because they were irresponsible and didn't bother to think ahead. But it also verifies that those who were unable to overcome some of the major challenges life throws at us - e.g who suffer illness or disability, suffered family crisis or significant trauma, family breakup, etc. - are enduring hardship that should be considered unacceptable in an affluent nation.

    Unlike you, though, I recognize that there are different tribes and some ARE doing it very tough. I KNOW the truth, and I acknowledge it. The truth is that our pension system is seriously flawed, patently unfair, cruel to some, encourages and rewards cheating and manipulation and punishes honesty and integrity, and is economically unsustainable. And when 36% of people are living on less than half the median wage in a country as rich as Australia, every DECENT human being should be protesting and demanding remedy - NOT screaming for more tax cuts for the rich!

    It seems those here who lack intelligence or have vested interests are incapable of objectivity, much less of identifying the reasons why social problems exist and seeing potential methods of improving a flawed system. Noting a wrong is ''whinging'' and rejecting propaganda from trolls and bigots is finding it ''hard to confront the truth for a change''. What a load of ignorant crap, skank99! You are the one who can't deal with the truth. It would upset your cloistered little world of privilege. The rich are more than happy for people to beg for food and sleep rough, as long as they don't embarrass them by doing it in public!

    BTW. Thanks for the compliment. Showers do tremendous good for all of us. They keep us alive. Glad to be of service!
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Jun 2018
    12:26pm
    We'll if many pensioners do well on the OAP one has to wonder what those that don't have trouble doing so. It is as simple as living within your means and stop spending on the things that don't matter. We only have one car now as the other one was not being used. If we need a second one we hire one as it's far cheaper than owning one. We only go to town once a week now and plan everything around that trip if we can. We use electricity when the sun shines and turn everything off when it doesn't. Just by doing things differently one can save an awful lot of money.
    Anonymous
    9th Jun 2018
    6:09pm
    thanks bear, exactly my point, it is people the likes of gross showers of hate who keep up coming with those fictitious and fantasising tales while admitting he/she does not have to rely on the pension, his/her hate is there for all to see, a pity the reason for that hate has never been explained by the gross shower of hate.
    Anonymous
    10th Jun 2018
    1:55pm
    The ignorance and arrogance of some is unbelievable. Of course some pensioners do better than others because of circumstances. Some have old run-down homes that need expensive repair. Some live in areas that have very high rates and insurance costs, water costs, etc. Some live in areas where food is more expensive. Some have family circumstances that impose costs and others have health issues. Some need care or household help.
    Anyone who pretends that everything is the same for everyone is an IDIOT.

    And nothing I say is fictitious of fantasy, SKANK99, neither do I have any hate for anyone. What I have is concern for the NATION AND SOCIETY. No, I don't currently have to rely on the pension. Hopefully I never will. But I CARE about those who do and I care that this government is wasting taxpayer funds running a highly inefficient welfare system and the flaws are glaringly obvious to anyone with a brain.

    Sad that selfish, self-serving folk can do nothing more than rant about how good they have it and blame others for their disadvantage and misfortune. If people were DECENT and HUMAN, we could band together to make a better world for everyone, but of course that wouldn't suit VGB's selfish agenda. He wants to retain the status quo that allows him to steal and plunder to remain rich while there is too little left for those in genuine need.
    Anonymous
    10th Jun 2018
    4:07pm
    genuine shower of hate read your own comments above and it will show you how right I was, waiting for your next instalment of some more of your phantasmagoria