Look beyond the words

Millions of people around the world each year have no choice but to flee their country.

Asylum Seekers, Boats, Australia, Waters, Protection, Refugees, detention centres, blog

Millions of people around the world each year have no choice but to flee their country and seek asylum in other countries to escape conflict and persecution. Yet, when these people attempt to seek asylum in Australia, they are labelled as ‘boat people’, words which carry an extremely negative stigma.

I can’t imagine the terrors that many of these people have had to endure in their homelands. They are fleeing to our country to start a new life, free of persecution. Unfortunately, when they arrive in Australia they are greeted by a large fence and small living quarters while they go through what can be a two-year process seeking entry into the country. There is another word for these camps; prisons.

I think a lot of us really need to rethink our position on asylum seekers and refugees and understand that it is legal under international law to seek asylum by boat. There have been a number of emails circulating the internet for the past few years comparing what a refugee receives in benefits compared to what an Australian pensioner receives. These emails are simply not true. A refugee who has permanent residency in Australia receives exactly the same social security benefit as any Australian-born person in the same circumstances. There are no separate Centrelink allowances that one can receive simply by virtue of being a refugee, nor do refugees receive cash payments under either the Integrated Humanitarian Settlement Strategy or the Settlement Grants Program.

I was lucky to be born into a country of freedom where I can wake up in the morning without fear of war or persecution. My vote is to give those seeking asylum with a valid case the chance to enjoy a life where they wake up without fear.





    COMMENTS

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    Reppie
    14th Jun 2012
    10:52am
    I agree Drew, but - maybe they should attend "classes"in how to behave now in Oz. I have no qualms about anyone settling here, as long as they leave what they have escaped from, behind them.

    All too often these refugees, and other non Australian born people just keep on with the ways they have used to survive back where they came from - stealing, bashing, and the ever present fear of terrorism I guess is in our minds.

    The very thought of ever losing the freedom we experience here horrifies me. Already the big cities aren't as safe as they once were - so I choose to live up near the Qld border, in relative safety.

    I also think, they should be made to attend English classes, this goes for all non- English speaking immigrants. If they can't speak the language in 12 months, then review their eligibility to stay here.
    retroy
    14th Jun 2012
    3:23pm
    Well reppie this time I agree with you. However if you were to go back to John Howards policy, we would not have to sift through to determine the genuine refugees, as distinct from the people smugglers, of the like recently exposed by the ABC.
    Rudd, and now Gillard have got it so wrong and its costing far too much!
    EELS
    14th Jun 2012
    2:40pm
    I do object to illegal immigrants just turning up and expecting to be accepted as if they had a right to come here without applying through the right channels. It is costing we the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars facilitating the every need of these often 'financial' refugees. Nose hair trimmers comes to mind!!
    I would like to draw your attention to the gut wrenching ads on TV at the moment for The Smith Family. It is a national disgrace that these sorts of essential services for Australian people have to be funded by a charity that has to beg for funds from the broader community when the Government is spending a fortune on overseas aid as well as setting up more and more centres to house boat people. I know where my sympathies lie.
    Joybells
    14th Jun 2012
    4:09pm
    I agree totally with you EELS. I live in WA and here we get nearly all of these refugees.. We have huge waiting lists for Aussies to get housing, charities are begging for our help and yet we are having to spend millions on housing, feeding etc all these people who come in illegally. i feel for some of them but a lot are using this to get into our lucky country quickly.Look if you can at the new centre built in Northam WA Drew and you tell me its a prison. Its more like a holiday camp but you cannot leave. Lets go back to the Howard system as this one under Julia Gillard is not working.
    Anonymous
    14th Jun 2012
    4:43pm
    Put yourself in their shoes EELS, would you just sit back and take it and do nothing to avoid being murdered or seeing your family and friends killed? I doubt it. You too would frantically look for a way out of an appalling situation, even if it means selling all your possessions to ensure a place on a leaky boat. How awful, after going through so much, to be put into a prison for an indefinate period. They must wonder why they have had to be punished for protecting themselves and family.
    Reppie
    14th Jun 2012
    3:47pm
    No argument here retroy - surprised eh?
    Wanderer
    14th Jun 2012
    5:34pm
    I. for one, am all for welcoming the people who genuinely have to flee their own country with little more than their lives, sometimes without precious members of their own families. From our position of freedom and great wealth in Australia, the least we can do is help them become valuable members of our society in whatever way we can. Some of my closest friends have been through this and my life is greatly enriched to be part of their lives.
    Perhaps if their arrival didn't cause as much post-traumatic stress as what they were fleeing they would be more likely to leave it all in the past because the people of Australia were so welcoming and compassionate that they'd want to be part of our communities. Perhaps, .....
    Nan Norma
    14th Jun 2012
    8:12pm
    I live in an QLD housing area. Our local newspapers tell us there are thousands of people in desperate need of housing. But most of them will never get a house because there just aren't enough. With the cost of renting the situation will only get worse. So we have families with no place to live. Children whose bedroom is a sleeping bag. Yet at the same time I am seeing refugees moving into these QLD houses. I am seeing them with cars most Aussie families in this area could never afford. Try explaining to these homeless Aussie families why they have to sleep on the street while the newcomers get to live in houses.
    Then there are the others, those that have no intention of being Australians. They want to live by their laws, take our welfare payments and tell us we are infidels. Of course we are worried. One only has to see what has happened over seas. France is experiencing real problems with its latest immigrants. Sometimes the differences in culture and religion are just too much to over come.
    Joybells
    15th Jun 2012
    11:57am
    Very well put Nan Norma Couldn't say it better
    Nautilus
    14th Jun 2012
    10:44pm
    "it is legal under international law to seek asylum by boat"

    With respect, no-one has ever argued with that. However the implicit understanding in what you have said is that they are in fact genuine asylum seekers, a possibility that is belied by the fact that they somehow lose their papers while on the boat and they have the well-rehearsed stories. Odd that is.
    robby
    15th Jun 2012
    9:03am
    This is total rot. The boat people are financial refugees. Nearly all of them arrive in Indonesia with a passport & a return air ticket to their home country. We maintain an Embassy in Jakarta at a cost of many millions of dollars. Under the Australian Immigration Act, all applications for asylum receive priority treatment & are usually given a decision within 30 days. The boat people choose to throw away their papers & passports & spend around 20 years income & live in a detention centre for 2 years. They do this for the simple reason that they are NOT refugees. I am totally unable to understand the attitude of the defenders of these illegal invaders. I would like to see some of you defenders sit in front of of a crowd of 10,000 applicants for public housing in NSW & tell them that the house that becomes available tomorrow will go to an illegal invader & the rest of you can stay on the 12 year waiting list. You would be torn limb from limb. They are given the same social services as the unemployed. However, if an Australian kid is living on the street, he gets not a cent. BTW, he is also not counted on the Census or the unemployed list. Why is it that none of you do gooders can answer any of these very legitimate points. You just carry on ignoring them & offering the same old Green/ Left excuses to the Australian people who have not got the power to do anything about this injustice. Don't just ignore what I have written here. If I am wrong, tell me where exactly & be specific, not the standard bleeding heart reply.
    Joybells
    15th Jun 2012
    12:03pm
    Thank goodness I am not the only one seeing this as it is. Why does the government keep their blinkers on with this issue. The need of our own Aussies should come first.
    Oldie@83
    22nd Jun 2012
    4:41pm
    Well put Robby. It is time the media and government labelled the 'boat people ' for what they are: 'Illegal Immigrants" they arrive in Indonesia legally where they are able to stay, free of all the reasons given to leave their homeland. As pay for boat passage to Australia they become 'Illegal Immigrants on arrival. I too welcome Legal Immigrants who enter Australia through proper channels.
    Oldie
    toot2000
    15th Jun 2012
    10:20am
    I think the difficulty for us, the public, is that we don't believe they are genuine refugees, they have enough money to beat the system and get here quickly compared to the genuine refugees who have nothing, waiting in Indonesia. The recent case of the people smuggler operating out of Canberra only adds weight to the view that many of them are criminals and will end up in Lakemba, under the scrutiny of the Middle Eastern Crime squad.
    Nan Norma
    15th Jun 2012
    12:15pm
    So right toot2000. And our welfare system has so much to offer, who wouldn't want to live here..
    Penqueen1949
    20th Jun 2012
    7:00pm
    I truly think if these people have nothing to hide then they would keep their identification papers. I also figure anyone who has the money to beat the system is not in financial dire straits either. These people invade our shores, are allowed access to unrestricted mobile phone calls back to their country of origin, are given free cigarettes if they smoke, are fed and clothed, get free medical checks, trash their accomadation and then go to the top of the list for public housing and other benefits like household expenses. There is also no expectation by the current government for the cost of these invaders to be paid back by them.
    pate
    15th Jun 2012
    4:36pm
    I agree too, these are not genuine refugees and as to how John Howard would handle it any better is a complete and utter mystery. Why don't they just give the navy some firing practice then see how keen they are to get to our shores.Sorry but I am sick of the bull about these so called refugees.
    Penqueen1949
    20th Jun 2012
    6:34pm
    Pate, I also don't think the boat arrivals who throw their identifications papers away are genuine refugees. However I am wondering exactly what sort of firing practice you are suggesting the Navy engage in with regards to the boats and the lives of these people......
    Aloysius
    15th Jun 2012
    4:37pm
    CANdo has long been saying that any asylum seeker coming from a safe third country – like Indonesia or Malaysia – without a passport should be assumed to be acting in bad faith. They should not be allowed to seek asylum here if they have destroyed their papers.

    It's good to see the coalition has adopted the proposal.
    Nautilus
    15th Jun 2012
    11:39pm
    Facts rely on numbers:

    - During 6 years of Howard's Pacific Solution there were 288 asylum seekers arriving via boat.

    - In the 4 years without the Pacific Solution there was a tsunami of 18000 arrivals.

    Changes in world-wide refugee numbers cannot explain the 6000% increase in boat refugees to Australia.

    TPVs MUST have worked as a strong deterrent to people smuggling. Because they could not send one kid or one man to bring over the whole family later.

    The other problem is that courts are being obliged to give the benefit of the doubt, which is easily stretched where there are no papers and a well-rehearsed, uncheckable story. The nett result is that now 99% get to stay and taxpayers stump up the small fortunes for their legal challenges and their keep.

    There is a horde of lawyers, urgers and advocates feeding off the asylum seeker industry. That is in addition to those directly involved in people smuggling.
    wscifers
    16th Jun 2012
    12:28am
    I understand that there are thousands of genuine refugees in African refugee camps in Kenya that have been cleared as genuine refugees by United Nations assessors. These unfortunates languish in these camps because of the boat people who "jump the queue" and usurp the positions the Africans should have and thus push them farther down the queue. I believe this is wrong and that Australia's generosity is being abused by these queue jumpers and the Gillard government lacks the spine to enforce what is right in dealing with the refugee problem.
    Another point I would like to make is is this. How do we know the queue jumpers are genuine refugees fleeing for their lives? Do we accept their word that they are because they say they are? Imagine what would have happened if, in 1941, a boat load of Pommies arrived on Christmas Island seeking asylum because they feared for their lives because of the Luftwaffe bombing campaign during the Blitz. Especially if they were healthy young men of military age. Why should our young men risk their lives daily in Afghanistan and fight the battles that these cowardly bastards seek to dodge? And why have these asylum seekers left their wives and children behind if things are so threatening and dangerous to life and limb? Or are they "holed up" in Indonesia waiting for the signal to come over on Julia's "Magic Carpret". Lastly, what are we to make of the adventures of Captain Emad and his exploits in Australia and overseas? I would be especially interested if his wife and family reported that he was dead (as reported) to gain entry into Australia. Did we have a Lazrus like resurection that is of Biblical proportions? Is the Gillard government going to deport these people for falsifying information to gain entry into Australia? If, as reported, Capt. Emad was under investigation by the Australan Federal Police for 2 years, how was it he was able to flee Australia. This is in stark contrast to the mistreatment awarded to Paul Hogan when he was forbidden to leave Australia over the tax dispute he had with the Australian Tax Office that was eventually resolved in Hogan's favour. Does the Gillard government despise Australian citizens like Paul Hogan and turn a blind eye to the shennanigans of people like Captain Emad?
    Joybells
    18th Jun 2012
    4:02pm
    What a wonderful letter covering this subject so well. May you can get on as an advisor to our great leader Julia as something needs to be done.And our leaders seem to be getting no nearer a solution
    Mmnt
    16th Jun 2012
    8:32am
    I too am one of many that believe that genuine asylum seekers should receive our aid but where there is genuine need in Australia, should we not look to our own backyard first.
    JJ
    16th Jun 2012
    4:49pm
    I am very much on the side of the genuine refugee - the problem I have is in identifying who is from who isn't. And it seems to take so long to separate them out, and that process is costing us so much! And I agree that there is a need to take care of our own socially and financially isolated citizens first. We have to find ways to limit the "tsunami" before the system becomes overwhelmed.
    Maybe there could be some conditions placed on those applying to stay here - such as agreeing to give up the practices of their Muslim religion (that sounds horribly bigoted I know, but some of those practices do not fit well with our own ethical values). If immigrant people are not prepared to live according to Australian cultural and ethical values, then they need to consider living elsewhere. If we make Australia a rather less attractive nation to settle in, perhaps we wouldn't have as many trying to get here via illegal channels. It's all very well to say that Australia is a big country, and we can fit many more people in - but the reality is that there is only so much livable ground available, and we don't want our cities to grow even bigger and more crowded than they already are. And also, we don't want enclaves of fundamentalist religious followers springing up, wanting to create havoc among us "unbelievers".
    doclisa
    25th Jun 2012
    1:21pm
    i find fundamentalists of any kind scarry. I find Islam and Sharia Law frightening. I am sad that the very reasons we think of as reasons to leave their country, such as horrific treatment of women, is the activity that many bring with them. Perhaps Musilms should move as refugees to other Muslim countries, not shift a tolerant country to an intolerant one by changing our cultural habits often associated with our secular as well as our religious beliefs.
    I am afraid of people, usually men, who have spent time in such desperate situations in their own countries and the refugee camps, as they are not afraid of using the violence that desperation brings.
    robby
    16th Jun 2012
    7:01pm
    Why don't we shorten the process? Why don't we move all the 34 million Afghani's to Australia to live their religious fundamental beliefs, just as they get at home? They can live off the iron ore & copper, until the boom dies, stone women to death & circumcise their daughters & be happy. At the same time, we can move all the 22 million Australians to Afghanistan to live off the oil & have enough money to get rid of our last 10 factories. We could have the Russian's protect us with their military & promote World peace between Russia & the other protectors, the USA. All we have to do then is get Rudd into his rightful job at the UN & all the World's worries will be over. Of course we would have to turn a blind eye to the new generation of boat people daring the Pacific to get to New Zealand to live with the wealthy infidels before they introduce Sharia law & breed them out of existence. I have to stop here. My tongue is starting to hurt my cheek.
    Nan Norma
    16th Jun 2012
    7:14pm
    Looks like Drew lost his case.
    Reppie
    16th Jun 2012
    7:14pm
    lol robby - ouch !!
    bluemoon
    16th Jun 2012
    8:32pm
    I agree with Nan Norma I also live in QLD so many need help,mentally ill walking around throw them into Dept of housing where normal people live.Yes they do need a place to live.
    Govt.needs to look after Australia,send the boats back and come thru the right way.We need more Police on the beat,sick of people asking for money,getting on the buses free rides.I am compassionate,but as a Senior I pay my way.
    pate
    17th Jun 2012
    10:47am
    good one Robby we have been teaching he afghans how to shoot people and so protect themselves so they should be at home in w.a. in the mines where they will be ready for crocodiles..... they may even shoot the words richest woman who cares so much about her country she doesn't like to pay tax as the rest of us are required to do, i am sute they could run the coutry as well \as our pollies are doing.
    robby
    17th Jun 2012
    12:12pm
    I am totally fed up with the left wing do-gooder idiots. I am an animal lover. I particular love the big cats & would do almost anything to preserve the species. HOWEVER, I would never join a group of F/wits who demand that the lions be released from the zoos to roam the streets of Sydney. I can understand why the approval rate for the Labor/Green coalition has dropped to 25%. What I am unable to understand is how there are 25% of the voters who still support this left wing rabid idiot & her co-backstabbers. We are going stark raving mad. How many of you are aware, or even care that we are paying signing on fees of up to $250,000 for New Zealand army personel to join the Australian Army, because it is cheaper than training Australians. Thank God I am well over 70 & will not live long enough to see what we have done. My children have assistant by neglect to organise it, so God help my poor innocent grandchildren.
    robby
    17th Jun 2012
    12:22pm
    While I am at it Pate, let me comment that I did not write the Taxation Act Do you have a Senior's card? Do you present it to get a reduced fare as a Senior, or do you insist on paying the full adult fare? Gina Rhinehart pays tax according to the Law written by the politicians that you voted for. If you don't like the laws that you helped frame, vote for somebody else.
    There is a limit to altruism & it is controlled by the Pollies that YOU voted for.
    pate
    17th Jun 2012
    1:16pm
    Yes Robbie I am a senior & have the appropriate card but as there is very little transport where I live I get practically no benefit from it. It's a pity they did not allow a discount from the cost of fuel. Then I may get some benefit' What I meant with Gina was the hallabaloo that was going on when she was trying to stop her kids from their u=inheritance on the quiet. That in itself was being done so she would not pay taxes.
    robby
    17th Jun 2012
    1:17pm
    What is wrong with you idiots? Everybody knows that every country in the World is governed by the well to do or the wealthy. There are many poor unfortunates in Afghanistan. BUT, anybody that can afford 20 years income to come here on a leaky boat is a very, very wealthy member of the property owning aristocracy, whilst the poor unfortunates are left behind to be used as cannon fodder. These are the people that have destroyed Afghanistan & we welcome them with open arms. They have destroyed their records because they can be easily identified in their home country as property owners. The average IQ is 100, so how come we are being run by idiots with an IQ of >80?
    Irishwolfhound
    17th Jun 2012
    1:41pm
    Totally agree with what robby says !! I have been trying to do a survey on how many of these people actually get jobs, it is nearly impossible to find out from the Government sources any figures on this subject. We should take in refugees, but lets take in the ones who have nothing, from legitimate camps - where they have been "...behind a large fence and small living quarters..." this is normal if you are a refugee you wait until it is your turn. This condition may not be ideal - but you are safe. The ones coming to this country are nothing more than economic illegals.
    robby
    17th Jun 2012
    2:49pm
    economic illegals are welcome. They are the people that were the capitalists that f.cked up their own country. Now the left wing do-gooders want to give them precedence over the needy of Australia & give them precedence over the needy in Australia.
    toot2000
    17th Jun 2012
    2:52pm
    This subject sickens me so much I can't watch or read anymore news about boat arrivals, it's so depressing I could literally weep tears of frustration. How Labor ever allowed this country to be placed in this situation of utter helplessness, having to accept boatload after boatload of Muslim crooks astounds me. The captain from Canberra showed us just how easy it is, just destroy your papers and the authorities are too stupid to notice, you'll be in like Flynn.
    robby
    17th Jun 2012
    8:08pm
    The good captain did not have a passport or any papers when he arrived in Australia When he boarded the plane to Indonesia, he had a passport & a visa, otherwise he would not have got past Immigration. Are you really too stupid to work it out? No wonder the con men of the World think that we are a joke. WE ARE>
    pate
    19th Jun 2012
    10:16am
    toot amazes me in the comment made how the hell are we suposed to deal with this I suppose we could just move Australia? Then neither Labor or Liberal would not have to worry.
    leonshirron
    19th Jun 2012
    7:10pm
    I wish Drew had not posted his photo. Drew it has a lot to do with BORDER SECURITY. Anyone can breach our Borders with enough money and the right coaching. You are talking out of your a..e when you indicate that the illegals dont receive any special treatment. I believe there is a place for genuine refugees and I support taking 4000(?) Burmese in exchange for 800 illegals. But it is very had to get anyone take the latter -so we are stuck with them. I certainly hope and pray that we can regain control of our borders. Leonshirron
    Boof
    19th Jun 2012
    7:20pm
    That Drew Patchell, hasn't got a clue. He runneth over at the gob. I am an aged pensioner and can't get public housing, for a start. The ILLEGALS get a home right away. I know of people who came here as Italian refugees, with a paid trade certificate, after a crash course, in Italy. Through two men from their home town, who told us that they were bad men and murdered people in Yugoslavia, we informed the Immigration Dept. Nothing happened. This was some years ago. No wonder they are letting in Captains of Ships and Talaban, now with all the people who have to be processed, from the boats, what chance of detection. Send them back and process them properly. Along with Patchell our authorities are extremely NAIVE. $10 to $15 thousand each for the fare on boat. H'mm.
    biddi
    19th Jun 2012
    9:37pm
    OMG. Drew Patchell. Bring back John Howard!! These boat people
    think we are suckers. If you want to see how things can turn out
    go onto YouTube and put your earphones on and watch this (how things have turned out in Sweden) .....
    Multiculturism in Scandinavia Part 1.
    What d'you think now Drew??
    Stoney
    19th Jun 2012
    10:21pm
    Give it up Drew. You only have to look at the comments to know that no amount of TRUTH will change the opinion of people who don't want to know. Amazes me as obviously they all have internet so could actually research the relevant facts. After all this time I find it hard to believe that there is anybody who can still refer to asylum seekers as "illegals" (and then expect their further comments to bear and shred of validity). I must admit I just did not expect this amount of bigotry and hate from a seniors forum as for some unbeknownst reason I thought that age might bring a smattering of wisdom and a corresponding degree of compassion for human beings far worse off than all of ourselves. Australia is not a particularly nice country!
    toot2000
    20th Jun 2012
    1:10pm
    You are so wrong, Australia is a very nice country and I object to being called someone who has no compassion because that’s just not true, I have lots of it. Forums like this one are a place for ordinary people like myself to vent when we see policies being made that are wrong, and Labor’s border protection policy stinks to high heaven. I don’t like being made a fool of and people like the Captain are doing a very good job of it. Holding this view does not make me a bigot and I am offended by your inference that it does.
    Blondie
    19th Jun 2012
    11:06pm
    I am horrified at the amount of vitriol spouted above by obviously ignorant people.
    Seems most of you have only heard half the story.
    I don't have time to give you long explanations, there are enough internet sources where you can find it - assuming you find independent sources, not somebody's pet blog.
    All I want to say is: "There but for the grace of God, go I".
    Nautilus
    20th Jun 2012
    7:16pm
    There but for the grace of god you might go, but only if you are as wealthy as these boat people are in their own country.

    Robby is right and no-one can dispel the simple, incontrovertible facts he has put forward.
    Reppie
    20th Jun 2012
    9:20am
    Boof, this is somewhere we ALL can have our say. Just because you don't necessarily agree with others, doesn't give you the right to name call.

    This applies to whoever initiated this page also. A little respect would be nice from bombastic pains in the ass like yourself!!

    At least you can come here and have your nasty say. Keep up the good work Drew, I think you do well for us humble people who just wish to say what we think without getting too nasty - politicians excepted - they are fair game for us all in "hunting season".
    retroy
    22nd Jun 2012
    1:48pm
    Now, now, reppie, it appears you are name calling with respect to poor old boof.
    suanne
    20th Jun 2012
    10:18am
    i agree with eels too these people have paid thousands of dollars to someone to get on a boat to come here so why should they be given carte blanc to our social security payments , a house and a car and employment as soon as they are filtered into the community. many of these people come from a country where my father and his mates fought like hell to keep them out of our country and now without as much as a by your leave let them in by the thousands
    Diny
    20th Jun 2012
    10:19am
    I came here 50 years ago as a LEGAL immigrant, had health checks in Holland, police records checked, learned English and than arrived by boat. My father and 3 brothers went straight to work, we saved for a house and never had the handouts these illegals get.
    Penqueen1949
    20th Jun 2012
    6:39pm
    Good for you Diny, I'm glad things have worked out because you and yor family took the time and effort to adjust and worked for what you have.
    terry
    21st Jun 2012
    4:39pm
    Sad to find so many closet racists coming out to cheer each other on in their righteous indignation.
    Of course there are those among the asylum seekers coming by boat who are seeking to circumvent the system, but why oh why do so many Australians take up the simplistic, populist line that seeks always to blame the victims of persecution.
    Not too many suggestions on humanitarian solutions to the problems, just the same old same old emotional claptrap - shoot ém out of the water, bring back John Howard etc.
    And of course every argument is justified by incontrovertible? "facts", e.g. detention centres are holiday camps; refugees are just "boatload after boatload of Muslim crooks" and "illegal invaders". How could a rational debate be held with anyone who suggests that anyone with an different viewpoint is "talking out of his/her a..e", or is a "left wing do-gooder idiot".
    Oh, and don't forget to be highly offended if anyone dares to suggest that you may be lacking in compassion: or exhibiting racist tendencies or a degree of bigotry - do get on your high horse and protest loudly while repeating those same selfish and utterly contemptible, exaggerated comments.
    Sad, sad, sad.
    doclisa
    25th Jun 2012
    1:36pm
    terry
    aside from a lot of nasty things said here. There is an underlying notion that as they are often young and healthy men would they serve their country better by banding together and attempting to change their own country. Rather than fleeing and leaving their country, family, traditions and history. Clearly there are shocking things happening in these countries, but assisting resistance might in the long run serve many countries better. There are different solutions that need to be found for the 21st century in matters such as security for people, governments, food and animals. For instance the current stand of 'finders keepers' for mining in Australia is plain wrong. It is a system not changed pretty much since the middle ages and frnakly Gina Rienhardts 'owenership' of what she finds is an outdated idea as changes in how we care for and use our planet are changing, and have changed much. There are many big questions we need to find answers to. Lets step back and look at the bigger questions here.
    motaleon
    21st Jun 2012
    8:06pm
    Enough has already been said to condemn the Federal Government for its pussyfooting on the issue. The trouble is that we have too many dogooders who seem to carry the day: what really happens is that we are too much bogged down with political correctness. As a result, we confer the rights of the majority on the minority and then let them function as the majority.
    Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, people like Pauline Hanson and Bruce Ruxton too often said what most people were thinking but didn't have the guts to come out with it. THEY WERE NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT. I am very glad to see the general tenor of the comments offered here.
    We will pay for gutlessness ultimately; I think China is already colonising this country but I don't hear anybody screaming about the way Chinese ownership of businesses and land is at tsunami proportions, and the Federal Government aids and abets by granting fast track citizenship if they bring $1,000,000 with them - to buy up big, sack existing workers, and guess who takes their places!
    robby
    21st Jun 2012
    11:07pm
    If we use terry's style, it must prove that we were racist to defend Australia against the Japanese when they wanted to invade Australia. Why do all you do gooders avoid the repeated question. If a genuine refugee from Afghanistan, carrying proof of identity & birthplace, applies at the Australian Embassy, that the bus takes him past on the way from the Jakarta Airport to the leaky boat, he will be approved & on his way to Australia, within a week & even before the illegal boat arrives at Christmas Island prison. So, why does he spend about 20 years income on a leaky boat ride & destroy the papers that will get him approved? Simple, the papers prove that he is not eligible for a protection visa. QED!!!!!
    terry
    22nd Jun 2012
    10:03am
    Thank you so much for your classic spin on my comments - naturally enough, nothing about finding a real solution, just more of the same - repeat an untruth often enough and the gullible will be convinced that it must be true.
    You want to know where you are wrong Robby? The simplest way It can be put is to tell you that you are wrong on virtually every point you make - but you don't want to know that do you? Research the issue thoroughly for yourself and learn!
    I won't hold my breath!
    You are wrong when you make exaggerated, untrue statements and infer that they are true of all refugees arriving without documentation. You are wrong to belittle your critics through the use of derogatory language and abusive terminology. Take the time to respond rationally rather than emotionally and angrily to those with a different view and you may finally make a contribution to a debate that takes it forward. Is that too much to ask?
    Abe
    22nd Jun 2012
    12:21am
    I reckon that in 50 years or less you will all be bowing down towards Mecca 5 times a day, if you're still alive, that is. The muslim creed as of now is disseminate and populate all over the world. Indonesia has the second largest muslim population in the world, and that is only since the end of WW2. Beware the Imam. Anybody want to buy a prayer mat, cheap ?
    Stoney
    22nd Jun 2012
    11:00am
    It is no wonder the rest of the world is now viewing us in the same way we viewed South Africa during apartheid....and they didn't get it either! We may not be all drunks but the other two adjectives are demonstrably applicable. Reds under the bed Robby? Dad won bravery awards and malaria in the jungles of New Guinea fighting the invader and he thought our melting pot of nations is the best thing since sliced bread....but then he was never xenophobic! Nor did he ever use the expression"do-gooders" like an insult. Is it BAD to do the right thing??? I do know I'd have to be incredibly desperate to trust myself to the proverbial "leaky boat" no matter what and I also know I'd rather march beside the few remaining companions of dad left alive in 2/6 Div Cav Cdo Co on Anzac day and listen to their far more human(e) comments about our treatment of refugees.
    robby
    22nd Jun 2012
    5:01pm
    Terry, you are doing it again. You state quite clearly that every point I made is incorrect. Do us both a favour & state specifically the correct point of each statement that I have made incorrectly. The remedy is to apply through the outlets supplied & staffed by Australia at great cost.
    Stoney
    22nd Jun 2012
    9:22pm
    Dear Robby...with due respect, EVERY point you made was a load of clap trap!

    http://www.erc.org.au/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=viewDocument&JAS_Document_id=64
    terry
    23rd Jun 2012
    10:12am
    Here’s the favour you request, Robby.
    What have you stated as the facts in your posts? As far as I can work out, after separating the vitriolic language, derogatory comments and general clap-trap, the only “fact” you provide to support your position that these people should visit the Australian embassy in Jakarta and get a visa to come to Australia, is this:
    “Under the Australian Immigration Act, all applications for asylum receive priority treatment & are usually given a decision within 30 days.” (15th June)
    OR perhaps it was this: “ If a genuine refugee from Afghanistan, carrying proof of identity & birthplace, applies at the Australian Embassy, that the bus takes him past on the way from the Jakarta Airport to the leaky boat, he will be approved & on his way to Australia, within a week & even before the illegal boat arrives at Christmas Island prison.” (21st June)
    Now whether your “fact” incorporates 30 days or 7 days, it does not correspond with the clear statements made on the website of the Department of Immigration & Citizenship, as follows:
    “After an application is lodged, the processing office sends the applicant and, if the application was accompanied by a Refugee and Special Humanitarian Proposal (form 681), the proposer, an acknowledgement of receipt. They then begin processing the application.
    It is important to note that the processing of applications has several stages and can take many months.”
    Not a particularly important issue in the discussion, but for someone so pedantically demanding to be told the facts you fail to meet your own standards by a considerable margin!
    Nautilus
    22nd Jun 2012
    8:42pm
    Stoney,

    Can you explain why a person would pay what is a fortune in their money to a criminal to set to sea in a leaky boat (the smuggler's fault not Australia's) ditching their papers on the way, when they could simply continue the plane trip they took to Indonesia and arrive in Australia as fresh as a daisy and with the papers they had to have to enter Indonesia?

    The United Nations has said that a large rump of 'asylum seekers' are in fact economic migrants.
    Stoney
    22nd Jun 2012
    9:01pm
    You are taking the exorbitantly publicised example of a few and applied it to everybody. And your last statement is part of the myth. THIS is a direct quote from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees: "The UNHCR disputes claims about 'cashed up' refugees saying that payments made to people smugglers in fact range from 00 - 00 AUD. In reality, many families and communities pool their resources in an attempt to send their relatives to safety. People smuggling is a crime that the international community needs to combat. However, this does not negate the legitimacy of asylum seekers' claims, nor their need to seek refuge. The international community, in eradicating people smuggling, is also required to address the growing numbers of asylum seekers throughout the world. As a Western nation, Australia has a role to play." Furthermore: "People who arrive on our shores without prior authorisation from Australia, with no documents, or false documents are not illegal. They are asylum seekers - a legal status under International Law. Many Asylum Seekers are forced to leave their countries in haste and are unable to access appropriate documentation. In many cases oppressive authorities actively prevent normal migration processes from occurring. 'Illegals' are people who overstay their visas. The vast majority of these in Australia are from western countries, including 5,000 British tourists" and "Australia has not taken a single refugee from the UNHCR in Jakarta - from the so-called 'queue' - for more than three years. This is despite the rhetoric from Australian politicians for asylum seekers to be processed in Indonesia. It should also be noted that the UNHCR centre in Indonesia was set up by Australia with Indonesian support. Refugees cannot stay in Indonesia because Indonesia is not a signatory to the Refugee Convention. There is no requirement in international law for refugees to seek asylum in the first country they come to. Some developed countries have made this an additional requirement in order to avoid processing claims, leaving the large numbers of asylum seekers in camps in Third World countries. International law requires that asylum seekers should not be penalised according to the way in which they enter a country. Australia's current policy does not accord with this requirement." and there's a whole lot more you won't find from Andrew Bolt or 3AW or Tony Abbot or Julia Gillard at: http://www.erc.org.au/index.php?module=documents&JAS_DocumentManager_op=viewDocument&JAS_Document_id=64 and if that's not enough get back to me and I can provide much more from peer reviewed authenticated sources!!!
    Nautilus
    23rd Jun 2012
    2:00am
    Well no, Stoney, it is not myth at all. In fact the UNHCR itself has said that the lines are blurred between economic migrants and refugees. It wants to widen the definition of its 1951 convention to suit.

    The UNHCR has instructed countries 'to become multicultural' to absorb the flows which are, according to it, coming from the "megatrends" of urbanisation, population growth, water scarcity, food insecurity and climate change. These are the the defining features it says.

    That is different to the spin we keep hearing from such people as Sarah Hyphenated from the Greens protest party that it is due to war, in particular war waged by the US.

    So it all comes down to burgeoning population. How that can be solved by throwing open Australia's doors as demanded by the Greens protest party is problematic, but the Greens never were so good on numbers, just at spending other people's taxes.

    Calling boat arrivals 'asylum seekers' is factually incorrect, logically flawed, because it assumes something to be fact which has not already been tested. Of course if Australia was to go it alone and accept the ambiguity of UNHCR's new view of 'refugee' -which includes people who are not under immediate threat to their lives but just want a better life- then your politically correct usage of asylum seeker would be correct. Until then hopefully Australia will try to act like a sovereign nation that has a right to say who crosses its borders and whom it will accept as a refugees, or migrant seeing that IS what many are.

    Of course the Greens, who are the actual hold-up in the Senate with their outrageous demands, could mean what they say about population and sustainability and could act more reasonably with Julia Gillard. There is Buckley's Chance of that happening.
    biddi
    22nd Jun 2012
    9:17pm
    Is anyone able to tell us why Australia has accepted the latest
    batch of boat people (from the accident) when the boat was actually
    in Indonesian/zone waters?
    Itsmylife
    23rd Jun 2012
    12:50pm
    Because we are stupid!
    Reppie
    23rd Jun 2012
    9:51am
    I guess no choice biddi, unlike the Indonesians, we don't sit back and watch people die without trying to help at least.
    terry
    23rd Jun 2012
    10:20am
    Although we do have in our midst people like Pate who suggested "... just give the navy some firing practice then see how keen they are to get to our shores."

    No doubt feeling smugly justified, thinking, "It serves them right!"
    Penqueen1949
    24th Jun 2012
    12:38am
    Terry, I noticed that Pate has not replied to my query re exactly what kind of firing practice he thinks the Navy should have with regards to illegial people entering Australian waters....
    Itsmylife
    23rd Jun 2012
    12:49pm
    I really liked the Malaysia solution.

    I have a real issue with wealthy people who can afford the $15,000 - $20,000 ticket price (I couldn't afford that) being accepted straight into the country.

    Swapping them for actual refugees who currently live in appalling conditions in Malaysia seemed logical.

    Within weeks, there would no longer be wealthy people taking the boat option because their destination would be Malaysia.

    People from Malaysia are more likely to become ordinary workers rather than business and property owners and that is fine by me.
    slapsy
    23rd Jun 2012
    2:05pm
    I was starting to think that "no life"had no interest in this one but up he popped.
    robby
    24th Jun 2012
    8:56am
    Stoney, you are quoting incorrect information as fact. The reason that there have been no protection Visas issued through UNHCR is because applicants there are directed to apply to AVAC at the Australian Embassy at Jalan H. R. Rasuna Said Jakarta. Just out of interest, there have been less than 150 Afghani apps this year compared with over 2,000 in Australia. You say I use vitriolic language. The term "do-gooder" is not vitriolic. It refers to self righteous, poorly, or ill informed. Your father was obviously a very good Australian, but I am certain that he would not have favoured the settlement of non working wealthy Afghans taking housing from Australian families who have to wait up to 13 years. I will bet that he never envisaged these illegals getting unemployment benefits for years when we have Australian kids living on the streets & receiving not a single cent from Centerlink.
    terry
    24th Jun 2012
    10:43am
    Wrong again, Robby! Any term used in a way that is intended to imply criticism or to belittle the person to whom it is directed can correctly be regarded as caustic or vitriolic. The most self righteous comments in all of the postings on Drew's perfectly reasonable, personal views have actually come from you, so on your interpretation, you must qualify as a "do-gooder" - but it all depends on the context.
    So,when you use the terms "do-gooder", "bleeding heart","do-gooder idiots"."group of F/wits", "this left wing rabid idiot & her co-backstabbers","...f.cked up their own country" you are being vitriolic, you are being derogatory, you are disrespectful and you lose your credibility.
    To have you, having posted and peddled your own incorrect information as fact, make any suggestion that Stoney is wrong in her post is quite breathtaking in its arrogance. Take a long, hard look at the way you respond to those who have a view different to yours, try to moderate your language and make an effort to understand that there may be validity in many different views.
    toot2000
    24th Jun 2012
    11:05am
    In today's Age, we learn that when the boat was only 38 miles from the Indonesian mainland, the asylum seekers rang the Australian Maritime Safety Aluthority who told them to head back to Indonesia. They refused and kept going, so strong was their resolve to come to the land of milk and honey.
    robby
    24th Jun 2012
    11:23am
    On second & considered thought, you are correct terry. I am criticising the do-gooders. These innocent bleeding hearts cause so much unintended problems to mankind. BUT, that is not vilification. Vilification is the slanderous missinterpretation. A good example would be the story of Ted Bundy, one of, if not the greatest sociopath that the modern world has ever known. He cost the American justice system untold millions of dollars in appeals. This self confessed murdering, necrophiliac & beheader of more than 30 beautiful young innocent women, had over 100 offers of marriage & had a demonstration of 100's of protesters, mostly women, outside the prison when he died in the chair in 1989. Vitriolic is described as biting sarcasm in the dictionary. I stated fact which was in no way sarcastic. Yes, it is derogatory & deservedly so, but in no way a missinterpretation.
    terry
    24th Jun 2012
    2:14pm
    Sorry Robby, despite my best efforts I have been unable to detect any actual facts in your many contributions.
    I marvel however at your capacity to introduce so much irrelevant material into a civilized discussion on aspects of the asylum seeker / refugee issue in this country!
    To date you have used the forum to "inform" readers about public housing in NSW; Australian kids living on the street; getting Kevin Rudd into his rightful job at the UN; your views as an animal lover; the approval rate for the Labor/Green coalition; signing on fees for New Zealand army personnel to join the Australian Army; the Taxation Act; the Senior's Card; Gina Rhinehart; the property owning aristocracy that destroyed Afghanistan; your view that we are being run by idiots with an IQ of >80; the Japanese attempt to invade Australia; and NOW the story of convicted American murderer,Ted Bundy.
    Do these things help us to understand the issues raised by Drew? I am finding it very difficult to see the relevance.
    Oh, I also note that somehow you have introduced the word "vilification" which has not been used by anyone else in drawing attention to the style of language you have used; and you ignored the factor of context - in the context of the discussion and your continual use of derogatory, disrespectful language, your use of the term "do-gooder" IS vitriolic.
    You may have had second thoughts, but those thoughts have clearly not been "considered" - just more of the same.
    Quite sad really.
    robby
    24th Jun 2012
    3:28pm
    Sorry terry, I thought that when I joined this seniors' site that it was a place where people could express their opinions. All my points are relevant under the heading of cause & effect. The last time I looked, this was an article called "look beyond the words" written by Drew, inviting comment from the members & not part of the forum. I have just looked for the rules as expressed by Admin, regarding comment, & I could not come across any that they or you have written. I note that you have not made any similar comments about the self expressed lesbian who is an expert on the sexual practices of hairy ugly men especially where sodomy is concerned & who think that Gays are only men. I did not introduce Gina or taxation into these comments. I wrote a few lines that I finished by admitting that they were tongue in cheek. Sorry, I had not realised that tongue in cheek had been banned by you. Do-gooder is not a vitriolic word. According to the Collins Dictionary it refers to a "well intentioned, naive philanthropic idealist". I presume from your comments that you do not accept parallel examples either, although everybody was waiting with baited breath for the introduction of the soldier who won bravery awards practising racism on the invading Japanese, in New Guinea. Would you please submit your rules of comment so that Itsmylif, Stoney, nautilus, Pate, Eels, joybelles & others like you & myself will be better informed on the proper & restricted meaning of comment.
    terry
    24th Jun 2012
    4:22pm
    No rules Robby, just a modicum of courtesy, a little respect and a more temperate use of language would probably help your cause to be better understood - no name-calling for a start, it's just too childish for mature people to have to tolerate. Sorry to have to keep pointing out the obvious!
    Let's be clear,I have no more influence over what may or may not be written on the forum than you, so you can choose to continue to blather without pause if that's what satisfies your definition of expressing an opinion.
    Perhaps it would help to simply express your opinions and have views , rather than presumptions, about the opinions of others.
    Oh, and I apologise for not understanding that your comments were tongue-in-cheek - I mistakenly thought that related only to the post of June 16th – and everything else was passionately held beliefs!
    Stoney
    25th Jun 2012
    8:49am
    Onya Terry. And Robby it is "bated breath" lol. Not buying back into this as it is 100% apparent that any actual fact, even if force fed, is just vomited back up again, unrecognisable and accompanied by bile. Now excuse me while I go make up the couch for a wealthy Afghan immigrant. Unfortunately I already have a street kid (temporarily) occupying my spare bed. Come to think of it, aren't I lucky to have a spare bed...or any bed at all.
    robnlee
    26th Jun 2012
    1:07pm
    I understand where Drew is coming from.
    BUT, there are issues not clarified.
    If all refugees are accepted into the community, under Julia's current system, genuine applicants OK, but what happens to those in the community already NOT kosher? I can't believe Julia will bother to chase these up - just let 'em go! So, EVERYBODY gets in!
    What are we doing to impress on embarkation nations - Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India, etc - that illegal refugees are not acceptable? They must be laughing!
    AND because of illegal refugees, suitable refugees are being denied access to Australia. Where is the fairness in this?
    Itsmylife
    26th Jun 2012
    1:23pm
    The big problem with refugees is the opposition party being determined NOT to negotiate with the government, thereby hindering any resolution. While Julia is in office the LNP want the boats to keep on coming so they are 'proven' to be the only suitable government.

    There are a lot of suitable countries to enter between here and Afghanistan. Being selective about where you go takes you off the genuine refugee status in my opinion. It makes you more like a picky tourist.

    We need to harden up. Once wealthy refugees are let in and set up shop, you can bet the Australians they employ won't be getting any breaks.

    Labor stopped the boats with the Malaysia solution. How serious can the LNP be if they didn't wait and see that solution play out? We may complain about swapping 600 for 4,000 but once the boats stopped, no swapping would have been necessary.
    retroy
    26th Jun 2012
    2:38pm
    We had a perfectly good immigration policy before Rudd, and people were not getting drowned and genuine refugees were welcomed.

    Its past time when labor should seriously reconsider their stubborn ways and stop loss of life.

    Incidentally the Court found the Malaysian solution was against the law.
    EELS
    27th Jun 2012
    12:51pm
    Just who do the Greens think that they were elected to represent in this country? The Australian people or what.
    I find it extremely offensive that Christine Milne has stated that the rescue of the illegal boat that came to grief off Indonesia would have been treated differently if it was a yacht or a cruise ship. Our maritime personnel are already doing a fantastic job and do not need these unhelpful comments casting aspersions on their integrity. Lets not have a witch hunt like there was after the Christmas Island tragedy.
    biddi
    28th Jun 2012
    1:37pm
    I don't support Julia at all but I blame KRUDD for dismantling the border protection policy that worked well prior to his becoming PM.
    I think people forget what damage HE caused and she's carrying the can. But no excuses.
    toot2000
    29th Jun 2012
    1:27pm
    Now Julia is organizing a panel to sort it out. She's warned Tony Abbott that not one word of criticism is to be levelled at the panel but she would not commit to supporting its findings. She is still supporting the failed Malaysian swap plan even though the High Court threw it out and says it's all Tony Abbott's fault. She seems to forget that he's not in government and doesn't make the decisions - she does and what a holy mess she's made of it. Meanwhile, they keep on coming almost every day.
    biddi
    29th Jun 2012
    2:30pm
    How disgusting that they have gone on a 6-week break at this crucial time. During this time, you can be absolutely sure that the boats are going to pour in before some decision is finally made(after 6 weeks) and things get difficult (?) for the boat people to sail in.


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