23rd Jul 2014

Pension indexation

Kaye Fallick

COTA Australia chief, Ian Yates, yesterday reminded a forum of how much worse off Australian age pensioners will be when indexation changes start.

The changes will affect about 1.5 million age pensioners who, Mr Yates claims, will be $80 per week worse off in 10 years. The changes are not due to come into effect until 2017, but will have a significant impact on the bottom line for those attempting to live on the Age Pension.

“This is an unprecedented attack on the quality of life of Australia’s pensioners,” he said.

“The existing pension indexing arrangements were only introduced in 2009 and link pension rises to average weekly wages, ensuring the pension keeps up with cost of living pressures and allowing older people to keep their heads above water.



The rationale behind the change to indexation, according to Treasurer Joe Hockey is that with so many older Australians living longer, we can no longer afford to cover the costs of the current Age Pension.

Read Ian Yate’s full response to this change

Opinion: Let’s fight this pension change

It’s not over until the fat lady sings. And the Budget 2014 change to pension indexation should be fought tooth and nail to ensure it doesn't ever become law.

Given the number of unpopular measures in Budget 2014, with cuts which affected most sectors of society, except the super rich, it’s fair to say that the proposed change to Age Pension indexation in 2017 has slipped through the cracks. But at the COTA National Policy Forum, Making an Australia for all ages, the sheer inequity of hitting those with the least came home to me. When the Budget was announced in May, the headlines concentrated on the Age Pension age increase to 70. And why not?  It’s hard enough to get and keep a job at 55, let alone 65 or older. But the very significant reduction in pension increases means that the sole form of income for the vast majority of older Australians will be significantly reduced over the next decade, to the point where they will no longer be living on the edge of poverty, they will have fallen into an abyss. And for those 20 per cent who do not own their own homes, but need to pay increasingly high rents, the future is beyond bleak.

Yesterday’s COTA forum featured a wide range of speakers with diverse backgrounds and agenda issues, but there was unanimity on the need to rise above the political fray to create a vision and related policies for a fair and sustainable Australia for all ages. Beating up on pensioners by ensuring their income does NOT keep pace with average salary increases is not the way to achieve this noble aim.

What do you think? Did you realise the Age Pension indexation would be tied to CPI from 2017? Will this affect you? Do you think this is good policy? Would you sign a petition to send to all members of Parliament demanding that this legislation not be supported?





COMMENTS

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essenar
23rd Jul 2014
10:20am
Age pensions should not be indexed by CPI but should remain linked to average wage increases. Australians have to ask themselves - "Do we want to see our parents, grandparents etc live in abject poverty in one of the richest countries in the world?" I think not. Every pensioner and future pensioner should write to their member no matter what political persuasion, to put pressure on them to ensure that older Australians can live out their lives with good health and dignity. I would be happy to sign a partition to help to change this policy.
greywolf
27th Jul 2014
4:04pm
Absolutely agree with you, essenar. My 87 year old mother in law lives with us, with the pension her only income. She would not make ends meet or have any quality of life if she was doing it on her own.
Travellersjoy
23rd Jul 2014
10:22am
As an Age Pensioner I welcomed theRudd changes to pension indexation as a reassurance that I might not die in extreme poverty.
The 1% demanded a dividend from pensioners! and Abbot wants to give them a new class of paupers. We are truly in precivilised territory with this government, certainly pre Christian.

I support every effort to preserve current pension indexation arrangements, and pegging all MPs 'entitlements' to CPI ad infinitum.

I feel nothing but contempt for these buzzards who feed off aged and disabled Australians, our young and unemployed.
LENYJAC
23rd Jul 2014
10:43am
YOU ARE VERY POLITE USING THE WORD (BUZZARDS) I WOULD VERY WELL GER THROWN OFF THIS WEBSITE IF I PRINTED WHAT I THINK OF THESE GRUBS?????
particolor
24th Jul 2014
2:16pm
SPIKEY POISONOUS CATTERPILLARS !! Sounds Better...
Geminiwoman
23rd Jul 2014
10:28am
I agree with both essenar and Travellersjoy. Pensioners are already doing it tough, the Rudd Government increased the pension somewhat, but that rise has already been eaten up by the rise in the general cost of living. As a child, I was always told that the Liberal Govt. was ALWAYS for the rich and the Labour Govt. was always for the poorer sector of society. I'm now 64 years old and I see that nothing has changed, in fact, those words have been severely reinforced.
Paddles
24th Jul 2014
10:12am
Geminiwoman

Your post exemplifies at least two of life's immutable laws................

1. As the Catholic Church has known for centuries, if you get a child young enough, you can shape the adult in whatever image you want.

2. It is a well documented psychological truism that we see what we are looking for, even if it is not there.
gerryhatrick
23rd Jul 2014
10:28am
Of course it will affect myself and anyone else who has to strive to make ends meet with what is a just about liveable pension providing we do not want any extras or luxuries out of life such as heating in the winter its bed at 7 heated with an electric blanket after a healthy dinner of soup or toasted sandwiches .I suppose I am lucky being a widow on my own heaven help someone on disabilities or other sorts of pensions and if you have a family to keep and rent to pay ,the mind boggles at the nightmare of that situation .
tiger
23rd Jul 2014
10:46am
I totally agree, I am lucky single 76 pensioner with some savings put away in term investment. I only have to look after myself and do that rather well. I have equity in an Senior homes complex, just $35 p/w fees, I still need the current amount of Pension p/f for food petrol insurances phone internet and general cost of living. I am able to save some money at the end of each fortnight. I hope the Senate vote this Budget bill out as they keep saying they will. MP's and the Abbott Govt need to take huge pay cuts where is their heavy lifting.
greatgolly
23rd Jul 2014
12:20pm
tiger, you are doing extremely well only paying $35 pw, my wife and I pay $135 pw and we expect that to climb much higher in the future; however, tying pensions to CPI is a hit that most will not be able to take, I feel this will create the USA version of senior street people, having been there, we have seen it for ourselves. We must fight this to the bitter end, and I do get angry when Abbot and Hockey cruelly say, "We are listening to the people", what crap!

We have worked all our lives to become second and soon to be, third class citizens; we must stop this before it starts!
FrankC
23rd Jul 2014
3:06pm
Tiger, with Joe Hockey and his "heavy lifting", it is a case of "Don't do as I do, do as I say "!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:07pm
A cigar is not a heavy lift.
particolor
24th Jul 2014
2:19pm
No!! But a Shipment of them for Retirement Might Be a Heavy Lift ??
taxed to death
23rd Jul 2014
10:33am
Disgraceful policy by a heartless Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott who quite catagorically stated they would not touch pensions and super. Complete and utter lie. Where do I sign the petition? the sooner the better
Andy
23rd Jul 2014
10:41am
yes always fight for what is right for retires, the government is making big noises, trying to get the people of Australia to beleive that they are the ones that have to find the money to pay pensioners.(and its working) It is a total lie, not one pensioner that worked all the time till retirement, will ever get back the money the government owes them. So where is the trillions of dollars the retires have paid the government? Most waisted, the rest spent on dole bludgers.
taxed to death
23rd Jul 2014
10:47am
So true Andy. The Liberal government and the murdoch press have demonised pensioners as tax guzzling, caravan travelling, bludgers who all take their super and blow it on travel round Australia/world. And we thought they were all for pensioners. What a joke. Now they want us to have no access to super upon retirement and have what is OUR money invested in dodgy insurance companies. Exactly the opposite of what the UK is now proposing. Here's the quote from the British Chancellor George Osborne "We have to get away from this patronising view that the state knows best how people should spend their own money.'' Chancellor George Osborne. Please Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott read this - if you dare.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
11:42am
There is one person who is flying under the radar on changes to welfare, and that is one sly Andrew Forrest. he has had a lot of input to Smokin Joes policies.
Jude
23rd Jul 2014
10:56am
The Abbott Government cares little for those on welfare who often through no fault of their own need a helping hand. The whole reason pensions were linked to the average wage was to make retirement and old age live able. It is a retrograde step to go back to CPI pensioners and those with disabilities will be living in poverty what a disgrace in Australia in this day and age
Anonymous
23rd Jul 2014
11:49am
The Abbott government care NOTHING for those on Social security (welfare has become a nasty word in the hands of the same political buzzards). Taking a leaf out of 1980's Ding dong Thatcher's Book of Public vilification and Petty Prejudice - haven't you heard that pensioners and those robbed of ANY genuine opportunity in this country are 'leaners' and 'slackers'.

When they come up with some better idea than robbing the poor and attacking those thrown on the scrapheap through their stupid policy directions - and start building a proper Australia with a genuine future - I might start to listen. Until then, they are jumped-up and often stupid twerps with not one thing to recommend them other than their rapacious hearts and souls.

I say sack the lot of these vultures without any privileges or pensions at all. Start with cutting immediately all political pension handed to those under pension age who have an income - in the meantime they get NoStart to live on until they find a job.

Nobody promised them a rose garden - they stole it!
Andy
23rd Jul 2014
9:59pm
I think this should rate a mension here, back in the 1990s, when the governments of the time found out how much money there was in super accounts, they straight away took so much of it, they sent a couple of companys to the wall and all the people who had paid super into those companys along with them. question, how much of that money have the governments payed back?
Jude
23rd Jul 2014
10:56am
The Abbott Government cares little for those on welfare who often through no fault of their own need a helping hand. The whole reason pensions were linked to the average wage was to make retirement and old age live able. It is a retrograde step to go back to CPI pensioners and those with disabilities will be living in poverty what a disgrace in Australia in this day and age
Tinkerbell
23rd Jul 2014
10:59am
YES! I would certainly sign a petition against this.
Anonymous
23rd Jul 2014
11:51am
I will actively campaign against them in the streets if necessary.
moke
23rd Jul 2014
7:46pm
I agree maczee I am 75 and never had to opportunity for super. So I and my partner would sign a hundred times if it would help. Perhaps Abbit Rabbit and Cocky Hocky should take a cut but I wont hold my breath. even if they did they would find other perks to make up for it.
maczee
23rd Jul 2014
11:00am
Where do I sign?? At least let those pensioners who never had the security of having Super live out their days with dignity,
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:05pm
Signed.. maczee.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:22pm
ill agree with that. and sign as well.
maczee
23rd Jul 2014
11:01am
Where do I sign?? At least let those pensioners who never had the security of having Super live out their days with dignity,
Anonymous
23rd Jul 2014
1:11pm
You cannot sign twice
PlanB
23rd Jul 2014
11:04am
My very word it will effect me --it is hard enough now to make ends meet and TRY and save a little in case I need and operation--as I am not able to afford private health cover--I do not smoke or drink and don't frequent clubs etc, once every blue moon I MIGHT have a meal out but thats the extent of my spending, I do pay my bills on time, if I was one to like to travel etc --(I did that when I was working) there is NO way I could afford to on the pension.

All very well to say people are living longer --but is their Quality of life GOOD ? I sure would not want to be having to go out to work till I was 70 and do work around the home -- as well --especially if it was manual work and plus it is hard enough for the young ones to get work let alone once you turn 45 these days and has been that way for decades.
bobby
23rd Jul 2014
11:14am
If the pension is reduced by the estimated $80 per WEEK, Abbott will realise his goal. Many people will no longer living to a ripe old age, creating even more savings for Abbott and his cronies. Maybe this will be the demise of the Liberal Party.
Anonymous
23rd Jul 2014
11:52am
Not before time. This party is long overdue for the scrapheap - along with their running mates in labor who are little better in their handling of issues for THEIR chosen ones.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:26pm
And there was Joe on the Puppet Alan Jone's show this morning still justifying that working Mothers earning one hundred and fifty grand a year or more be paid maternity leave of half of it. seventy five grand. he reckons that anyone who opposes it has flawed logic? god give me patience.
Anonymous
24th Jul 2014
10:34pm
Flawed logic? He meant floored logic! What an absolute crock and typical of the dumb arrogance of this twit we allow to be our treasurer. No answer beyond the old put down those who oppose my idea.

The arrogance of these idiots knows no bounds.

Somebody explain to me again how it increases productivity to have someone off for six months or so, employ a second worker, pay both, and then have the old worker come back and catch up while dealing with a whole new range of issues at home.

I'm desperate for an answer here. The ONLY situation in which there is any lack of loss of productivity is in jobs that do nothing anyway - so why do they exist at all, let alone be included in reckonings of 'productivity'?

Rabbiting on and propagandising without facts and real figures is nothing but propagandising. It ay well suit well-heeled women on a good wicket - better than mos tof us ever had at $150k a year, FCS - but who else does it suit?

If we are looking at $150k - or $3000 a week, as the yardstick - why then are pensioners not paid according to that rate? I reckon $750 a week might help a little.

What DO these people use for brains?
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:26pm
Grappler: Years ago a friend gave me a story about an eights rowing team which was doing poorly. The solution was one by removing a rower and replacing with all manner of leeches: coach, psychologist,trainer, public relations person, etc. In the end there was one rower. Guess who got the blame for th eteam doing poorly then? Of course, the one rower left. Does it sound familiar to what is happening in our economy. Always the workers. Never the management...which always looks after its own needs.
particolor
25th Jul 2014
2:12pm
You see there lye's the problem Mick. The one Rower left was taking the place of a Press Secretary to say How Well the Team was Progressing !!
wasamac
23rd Jul 2014
11:05am
they reckon the sign of a good government is one that looks after the aged & underprivileged which seems the opposite to what Abbott & his cronies are doing.they keep trotting out fair, considered & measured when they want acceptance, how does that equate to these set of changes?
bobby
23rd Jul 2014
11:07am
I have always voted LIBERAL, Federal and State, but this takes the cake. It is a deliberate attack on that section of Australians who can least afford it. $80 a week reduction in the pension frightens me. I have paid a hell of a lot tax during my working life only to find that pensioners will be paupers. As from now I will vote Labour and I will let my local Liberal member know about it.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
11:13am
bobby - and let him know that the Liberal mantra is to look after those worse off, not rip them off.
Budwah
23rd Jul 2014
12:57pm
Bob Menzies would be disgusted by the antics of Abbot & Hockey and todays Liberal party.
tia-maria
23rd Jul 2014
1:40pm
bobby the Labor party look after retired pensioners......much better than any Liberal do
tia-maria
23rd Jul 2014
1:40pm
bobby the Labor party look after retired pensioners......much better than any Liberal do
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:31pm
Whilst this is the worst government of any kind I can remember in my life time you need to remember that the Liberal Party has always been the party for the rich. it has always looked after the big end of town. And nothing will change until we split election funding sources from candidates. Having said that this Liberal government is the most deceitful, lying bunch of gutter dwelling rats I have ever seen and the Abbott crew have taken the parliament into the gutter. No morals of any sort with this bunch.
You talk about "she lied". So where are you now Alan Jones?
Idontforget
23rd Jul 2014
11:14am
How many MPs and their partners are using their 'entitlements' to set off or about to set off on overseas holidays in the winter parliamentary break. Try to find out and you will be put off because some other government department has this information or some privacy reason will be advanced. And don't think that the Liberals are the only ones with their greedy snout in the trough. Labor and the Greens are in it up to their necks, too, as you don't hear a peep from them about it.
When this entitlement for parliamentarians is removed, then and only then should government look at other savings. And then, an only then if it is deemed that pensioners should have to help in the lifting, that it only be for the same amount of time IE, two years, that the rich in our society are to lift. Not ad infinitum as is presently proposed.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:57pm
And don't they get some breaks.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:00pm
I Hope they go Skiing and get some more !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:06pm
Yes
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:32pm
Particolor: I will be....but not on the public purse.
particolor
25th Jul 2014
2:45pm
Safe Skiing Mick !! Watch the tree ? ... S P L A T !!..OH ! DEER !!.. Didn't see that coming !!
Kato
27th Jul 2014
2:56pm
It's ok Mick, the public you can use now as Joe has said on TV.
Lisa Owen began by asking him how much trouble the Australian economy was in given his drastic measures in the recent Budget.

Joe Hockey: The Australian economy is not in trouble. We’ve had 23 years of consecutive economic growth.


Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Interview-Joe-Hockey/tabid/1348/articleID/354234/Default.aspx#ixzz38dLvSp61
rtrish
23rd Jul 2014
11:21am
I would definitely sign a petition. Abbott keeps saying "Pensions will rise", as if we are too dull to work out how far we will fall behind. I have left my Federal Member of Parliament know (as he's a Labor person he knows anyway) and also Bill Shorten, who is well aware of this issue.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
11:22am
smokin Joe is in New Zealand on a fact finding trip so beware of his promise we aint finished yet. His words,The New Zealand system has a lot to be envied. he never Included Politicians in those words.
Joe is the treasurer, has he got a financial advisers license? has he ever like most tradies and professionals done the mandatory refresher courses relevant to the section he is running? Like his leader he gets his rocks off from misleading. These guy's have been out of public life for so long, they have no idea what it is like in the real world.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:14pm
Do You mean He is on a Junta ?? Hasn't He got the Internet on ?? I can find out all those Facts just sitting here !!.. Cigars might be cheaper there Perhaps ??....
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:24pm
The lamb is better there apparently , and it tastes much better if you don't have to pay for it.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:48pm
Do You want Mint Sauce and a Nice Red with that Sir ??
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:53pm
Why yes- isn't that an entitlement with lamb.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:05pm
And I suppose You want to go outside afterwards with a Big Fat Cigar Sir ??
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
5:11pm
will Matty be there, Im missing him.
Anonymous
24th Jul 2014
10:39pm
Fact finding in New Zealand? WTF is he going to get there other than a failed banana republic economy that everyone who can is leaving for better conditions here, a dire refusal to EVER have another woman prime minister, and some lamb and cheese sandwiches?

What 'facts' can't he find on the internet like anyone else or on the phone?

Just another example of the endless bottomless pit of public money available to cater to these clowns in their riding the raft of riches taken from us without consent.
particolor
25th Jul 2014
2:40pm
Has Tarring, Feathering and Running Out of Town on a Rail been Banned yet ??
PlanB
23rd Jul 2014
11:28am
I would also sign the petition--most of these pollies have never had a REAL job and worked HARD in their lives --they don't have a clue what its like to live in the REAL world !
tia-maria
23rd Jul 2014
12:20pm
PlanB ....................glad your thinking of a PlanAAAAAAAA
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:34pm
So why do we elect them? Are we so dumb as to succumb to the advertising campaign of candidates? Me thinks so.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
11:30am
Hockey Wanted A Tougher Budget.
https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/hockey--wanted-a-tougher-budget--004400536.html
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:37pm
Remember that there are a few more budgets to come before the next election. Those who voted for this disrepuatable government will suffer even more than they currently do. Its justice in a way.
So get the word out to your friends and contacts or suffer another term of the same whilst being told that you are all "entitled" when they are taking the spoils for themselves.
bob menzies
23rd Jul 2014
11:34am
While I don't like it - I ask what do we do. Australia does not have a budget emergency right now but it has a huge one just a few years down the track - unless something is done. I don't want my grandkids to have a huge debt. Should the government have taken something from super or negative gearing or capital gains tax. Probably.
I should declare that I have just benefited from government changes to fair indexation for DFRDB military pensioners meaning I get the same indexation as Age pension now.
My worry is there seems to be too many interest groups out there saying No government you can't touch or that. Well folks there is too much middle class welfare - a lot of things available from government today were not available to us - gee I still got my first pay envelope 1966 - $2.38 a fortnight (memory fades today but I think I saved 18 cents that fortnight. Forty years later I was getting several hundred thousand per year so I did OK - yes I have super plus a military pension but don't get aged pension - but do get a health card.
Also we are paying off interest on our Australian debt is close to 1 billion a month - but what have we got to show for it from the last 6 years - not much that I can see.
As bad as this budget is I still feel we need a decade of conservative government so we can pay off this debt get some money back in the bank - create jobs and improve our economy.
Anonymous
23rd Jul 2014
12:01pm
Bob - I think you are hardly fitted to comment. The last thing we need is a government that calls itself conservative that steals from those without to feed those with.

That debt can be better served by looking first at the (wait for it) non-core areas of spending and chopping those - that includes politician pensions with no reason to them, the infinite costs of 'privatisation', the spending on non-valid social issues, support for large companies with billions, off-shoring of taxes, and every other rort that big companies can create for themselves.

Pensions are a bought and paid for retirement package - same as Tony's or Joe's (but with hugely different rules). There is no argument about that, and no government has any right to view pensions as some malleable figure they can manipulate at their whim.

They have plenty of real avenues to find their missing revenue. Once they set their own house in order - then we might talk.

I understand fully every hard yard you may have done - on a personal level, and I KNOW not many have done what I've done in this lifetime - for an inadequate pension at this time after years of being rorted over and over, often by stupid government policy directly.

It's time for a massive change upstairs.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:21pm
Yes - Grappler you are right and the first place to start is that Holiday home, where they all pretend they work, that needs trimming big time.
bob menzies
23rd Jul 2014
4:27pm
Grappler - don't disagree with much of what you say but as an aged person I surely should be allowed to at lease comment - even if my views differ. My understanding is most politicians perks have now been removed - eg from 01Jul - gold pass flights are gone for all ex politicians - from 2007 (I think) all politicians get standard super (yes I know they get much better than 9.5%) but at least they can't touch it tax free to 60 like the rest of us. I read that pensions were brought in 1907 or 08 and for a very long while only about 4% of the population got it - now we have well over 30% reaching aged pension age and that percentage is increasing - any govn has to find a way to pay for it - do we increase taxes? Also its said some people cash in all their super do whatever with it then seek aged pension - if so such loop holes must be addressed - how? - tax lump sums taken out after 60. Once again many good points Grappler - well said
Luchar
23rd Jul 2014
6:16pm
bob menzies,

You are wasting your time trying to talk sense in this forum. It is dominated by those who seem to think that it's quite okay for the government to have to pay $1 billion per month to pay off Labor's debt, or, if it does have to be paid, the payment should come from the pockets of someone else. "Just don't touch my benefits because I've paid taxes all my life and am now entitled to all my handouts!" is the common cry.

Those who will acknowledge that Abbott and Hockey are dealing with Labor's willful spending of borrowed money seem to think the answer lies simply in politicians giving up some of their generous superannuation benefits.

There was a time not so long back when well-considered conservative comment had a place on this forum, but most of those contributors appear to have decided to leave this forum to the politics of greed and self-interest. I am about to join those who no longer bother with 'Your Life Choices', though I will miss my two daily crosswords.
MITZY
24th Jul 2014
12:13pm
Luchar: You obviously are not too worried about losing $80 per week in ten years time but the majority of pensioners on this forum definitely are. You possibly are comfortable.
If we had had the conditions (i.e. hand-outs) that are provided today to other areas of the welfare system, we would be on cloud 9 and finding it a lot easier to live in retirement. In the times we grew up we were a lot thriftier week by week, but hardly had funds for saving. However, the future pensioners a fair way down the track will be in just the same position as we are because their contributions to superannuation will not keep up with anticipated retirement lifestyles. By now the workers of Australia should have 15% of their salaries/wages paid into superannuation as proposed by Paul Keating when compulsory super was first introduced.

Kaye where is this petition we need to sign?

We should possibly inundate the PUP party with protests too, Jacquie Lambie is all for the pensioners, that is where we need a voice for the PUP senators to vote against this proposed legislation in the Senate.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:43pm
Luchar: Me thinks you are a Liberal troll put here to direct debate.
Your rants about Labor's supposed debt do not stack up. Firstly please inform this community of the debt level when Labor left office and what it is now. Well you won't do that will you. Funny that. And the media also refuses to publish these facts. Even stranger. So here's your chance to make a point.....GO FOR IT.
Secondly Labor did not do away with the debt ceiling, Abbott did. This ceiling essentially prevented either side of politics over spending. So why did Abbott do this? Answer; so that he could spend with zero accountability.
Your text is little more than Liberal Party rhetoric just like all of the other intentional, deceitful lies we have heard.
Kato
27th Jul 2014
3:05pm
Luchar -
Lisa Owen began by asking him how much trouble the Australian economy was in given his drastic measures in the recent Budget.

Joe Hockey: The Australian economy is not in trouble. We’ve had 23 years of consecutive economic growth,


Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Interview-Joe-Hockey/tabid/1348/articleID/354234/Default.aspx#ixzz38dLvSp61
Possitive Possum
23rd Jul 2014
11:35am
Some of us were not in the position to accrue superannuation which will sustain us. For example, I was a housewife with no super for the first 30 years, my husband worked in positions which did NOT have super. When I started to work, they did NOT have super in the types of positions such as shop assistant - casual. So effectively I have little if anything accrued. Why am I going to be penalised because I could not establish my own income for when I retire???? This is effectively what it is... a penality, and it will hit MANY women.
RosePerth
23rd Jul 2014
12:28pm
I started work in 1959 so for most of my working life I never had super either. I retired last year with a very modest super and went back to work 3 days a week a couple of months later. I'm certainly not complaining about going back to work as I thoroughly enjoy it and consider myself lucky at 71 to have an employer happy to have me. However, what little I have is not going to last very long unless I happen to drop off my perch before too much longer. But hey, let's take it off the pensioners - they aren't likely to be around as voters for too many years so why should we bother.....
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:48pm
You are touching on what is one of the biggest rorts USED BY THE RICH. Avoid the top marginal tax rate of around 49% by putting your money into supperannuation and only paying 15%. Given that the rich have much more available funds to do this they benefit from this loophole, not average AUstralians who consume all that they earn.
And then when the rich retire they get there essentailly tax free superannuation which I understand is not counted toward pension elegibility. So they then draw a full pension because they apss the income test with their income being a large sum of money from their very healthy superannuation accounts.
And you wonder why average folk see red.
Frank
25th Jul 2014
2:34pm
I don't wonder mick, unfortunately there are many people like you who have an envious dislike for someone who is a hard worker and squirrels away some of their income for the rainy day which will eventually come.
In your perfect world a full time worker earning $100k should be paying super contributions for a 2 day a week casual worker earning $30k.
riarobin
23rd Jul 2014
11:41am
I think it stinks that pensioners will be penalised once again. those who have to pay rent and live on the poverty line already will be yet again punished. Home owners also look like losing their deductions on rates etc when it is hard enough now to make ends meet. Why should aged Australians be punished just because they can live longer now? I will definitely sign a petition for the sake of future elderly and disabled people.
patrick
23rd Jul 2014
11:42am
I like to see legislation that holds politicians to their
Word by law.(I.e promises)
If you try telling fibs about what you would do in private
Business before you got a job, you would dismissed pronto.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
11:45am
Tony said in a TV interview don't believe anything I say unless it is in writing.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:20pm
Ands signed by My Great Great Great Grandfather !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:27pm
Whistler's Mother.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:46pm
Grouch Marks Abbott !!
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:49pm
Politicians have been very careful that they do not have to account even when behaving contrary to the interests of the nation. This is why they do not give a tinkers: they are untouchable.
Pamiea
23rd Jul 2014
11:46am
I would be happy to sign a pension - as it is with owning my own little unit I end up with $35 a day to feed, cloth, put petrol in my car weekly, entertain etc after I have put aside enough money per fortnight for my regular household expenses. It is a joke what the Government is proposing and down right insulting after working 50 years to gain it.
Old Fella
23rd Jul 2014
11:50am
I hope my Children and Grandchildren can make a better future for themselves and their country than those current Pensioners and disadvantaged Australians (- now being bludgeoned and discarded by the current Abbott Government-) have been able to make for themselves despite long years of hard work and taxation designed for the wealthy. If the country could be likened to a high flying passenger jet than we would be navigating away from the Coalition Government and its' Surface to Air missiles and the rest of the civilised world would be underlining the coalitions terrorist practices.
busybee
23rd Jul 2014
12:12pm
It's a simple solution, for once start taxing the wealthy as they should, close the tax loopholes they seem to be able to find and there would be enough money for pensions and needy.
teddals
23rd Jul 2014
12:13pm
It always is with any government in power to first give themselves a pay rise & then tax us to pay for it. Given that pensioners who have supported this country throughout their working life but paying taxes should be supported by present & future governments when they the working class retire. It might be OK for the present treasurer to sit behind his desk with his feet up smoking a fat cigar with a smirk on his face knowing his welfare is OK. Well karma has a funny way at coming back & biting you where you lease expect it. Grey power is increasing all the time so where is the partition to sign.
PlanB
23rd Jul 2014
12:14pm
Abbott has broken every promise he made --and even lied about breaking them
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:51pm
Do You mean He Even broke the ones He lied about before He'd even lied about them ??
Odds
23rd Jul 2014
12:18pm
And I would certainly sign a petition against this!
ross.martin4@bigpond.com
23rd Jul 2014
12:20pm
Yes I would certainly ad my protest and would happily sign a petition and also canvass in my local community to stop this amendment.
Just let me know and I will be there, we have a very active senior citizen community here and I am also President of the local Probus Men's Club who would also lobby to stop this attack on our pensioners
SolJesse
23rd Jul 2014
12:28pm
What makes a person "Honourable" the moment he or she becomes a minister. Obviously they aren't. It makes me heave when I hear Mr Abbott or Mr Hockey addressed as 'The Honourable"
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:16pm
DAFFY DUCK Said... " The Despicable !!"
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:30pm
particolor - do you mind, "Dethpicable'
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:46pm
Yeth !
MickMS
23rd Jul 2014
12:29pm
All Australians will be affected, we all get older and the way the Government views financial advisers a large majority of the population will not have enough to retire on.
Where do I sign up.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:49pm
They will have us taking out a Loan to retire soon !! And take it out of Your Pension when You Retire ..It'll work something like HEX Fees !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:22pm
A loan I had to get one of those from my brother to buy a leg of lamb, seems it hasn't got the news that the carbon tax has gone.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:26pm
And it Never Will....Amen ....
fat
23rd Jul 2014
12:31pm
I would certainly sign a petition.This government is one of the worst australia has ever had,no redeeming feature at all.Pensioners should not have to do the heavy lifting when the pollies and super rich do nothing.The liberals have always been for the rich and against the poor. wouldn't vote for them in a fit.george
Jules
23rd Jul 2014
12:32pm
This Government has forgotten one important fact. The average age of the population in this country is getting older...if they keep heading in the direction they are going, we the Seniors in our society will have a huge say in who governs, and since there's not a statesman among them i.e. politicians only care about getting re-elected and don't have the people's true welfare at heart, then they won't stay in Government very long. If they are so foolish as to forget about just what "people power" can do, we will send them into the policital wilderness with a huge shove. Bring on the petition.
KSS
23rd Jul 2014
1:14pm
With people getting older and fewer of working age, who is going to pay your pension then?
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:43pm
couldn't we rollover the bloated superannuation payouts and perks pollies get and put it into consolidated revenue, and just give them a aged pension like everyone else.
Patriot
23rd Jul 2014
3:55pm
Jules
Who cares about the aged.
We just keep doing nothing and obviously are very good at that!
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:58pm
Kato... Yes that would be Nice !! But then they will put a Blog up Protesting about those Draconian Terms !! A little bit like this one ??
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:12pm
would I be able to go on it.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:18pm
Only if You take out THE Pension Loan !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:30pm
show me the money.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:52pm
"We" do not have a say because "we" will not unite and vote in one block, so they divide and conquer as the old saying goes. Whilst people want to do their own thing pensioners will continue to be treated like dirt. They are not concerned because we are weak and will not get together for the common cause. What can I say!!
Aussiefrog
23rd Jul 2014
12:33pm
You'll bet I'll sign a petition! Bring it on.
Polly Esther
23rd Jul 2014
12:43pm
Don't let them get you down or your blood pressure up. I just think I'm alright Jack as I toddle off to pick a couple of notes from the money tree in the back yard.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:56pm
I had one them but by the time they picked there co - payment it was noteless.
Aussiefrog
23rd Jul 2014
12:43pm
Next step with those fat cat pollies will probably be too bring in the gaz chambers and eliminate us to save money and preserve their over inflated wages!
Budwah
23rd Jul 2014
1:01pm
I realise that you may have been having a little joke BUT I would not put it past this lot & to make matters worse they won't be employing Australians to build them either!
mel
23rd Jul 2014
12:46pm
Please bring on a petition to really get a result from this heartless lot in the government , perhaps Clive can help us as he promised? mel
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:06pm
AND PEOPLE STILL BEL:IEVE IN POLITICIANS PROMISES ??.. "There will be No cut in"..
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:20pm
IS IS - there no Santa either.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:24pm
No !! Only the Either Bunny !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:38pm
too much choice
Cazwal
23rd Jul 2014
12:46pm
I have just had to put my husband into full time care. As we were paying a large rent I have had to move into something cheaper but still pay 250 per week. This is a lot out of a single pension. The changes will effect me badly.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:44pm
I'm sorry to hear that Cazwal !!.. Now after paying that sort of Rent from $841 you are left with about $280 a fortnight but after Electricity and other expenses ?? I wont go into that,its Embarrassing !!.. I think YOUR The One who needs $70,000 Pay Rise ,not Them !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:45pm
Well said particolor.
Budwah
23rd Jul 2014
12:52pm
Unfortunately those twits in Canberra don't realize that pensioners have to survive and in doing so they spend money which attracts a TAX which inturn pays for their fringe benefits.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:30pm
You just reminded Julia She needs a Tax Payer Funded Fringe Trim and Manicure ??
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:36pm
nope he's not doing them after that nasty radio jock, said he parted his hair the wrong way. he is now retired and looking after Julia's office.
Abby
23rd Jul 2014
6:07pm
What do all these retired politicians need an office and staff for ??
Why has the Taxpayer have to pay for that ??
They get a good enough pension.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:55pm
Budwar: You are assuming that they care. Certainly this government does not give a tinkers for YOU. It only has allegiance to its rich benefactors. Average Australians and the poor are living an "entitlement" apparently.
Don't get angry. Get even. Discull with all of your friends and vote for a good local Independent to get rid of the rats. Its up to you, nobody else.
chloe
23rd Jul 2014
12:53pm
Yes it will affect me and we must make clear "our" feelings regarding this indignity to we older citizens. I am almost 80 years old ! How about our politicians taking a pay cut and a cut in any benefits that their positions give them !!! especially when they step-down from their jobs.
D.B.R. 23/7/2014
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:03pm
chloe.. They don't Step Down !! THEY GET SACKED !! Because they DIDNT do the job that they were elected to do !!and then in come the NEXT lot of P*** to resume where the last lot of P*** left off !! ...OINK !!..
Happy 80th When it gets Here !!
noddy45
23rd Jul 2014
12:57pm
Where is this pertition I will sign in a heartbeat, it's time the pollies took a bloody good look at themselves & stopped trying to rob the people who can least afford it, I would love to swap my pension for any polititians pension.
Juris
23rd Jul 2014
1:02pm
"They" reckon that the older you get, the sillier you get - I don't know if it applies to everybody but it certainly does as in my case. I have to confess that I voted for the Coalition, for the first time in my life, in the last election - only because I was tired of all the in-fighting in Labor's ranks. Now in return for that unforgivable mistake I will be paying for it for the rest of my life thanks to Hockey and Abbott. These two have proved they have no integrity whatsoever, and in Abbotts case one must ask if it is his Christian belief to kick the pensioners and disabled in the guts? Is that the teachings of his religion?, but in saying so, I have not heard Shorten say that he will return to the present system if he gets in next time. I can only do a very small thing to right a huge wrong I committed - where is the petition so I can sign it?
PlanB
23rd Jul 2014
1:49pm
Yes Juris that was the trouble last election--Lab' was not worth voting for and so most voted for the Lib' and that how these mongrel got in-- every one would have been better voting for an independent as a protest vote --The Lib --didn't WIN Lab' lost
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:04pm
That is because they lied better than the other lot.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:58pm
Juris: Whilst I understand how you felt you were sold a lie from the start. Hook, line and sinker. Sorry.
So next election vote against BOTH SIDES OF POLITICS. The only way to make a statement is to vote for a good Independent, one with little baggage and one who is not 'owned' by an big business interests. That way you make a difference.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
1:58pm
Juris: Whilst I understand how you felt you were sold a lie from the start. Hook, line and sinker. Sorry.
So next election vote against BOTH SIDES OF POLITICS. The only way to make a statement is to vote for a good Independent, one with little baggage and one who is not 'owned' by an big business interests. That way you make a difference.
KSS
23rd Jul 2014
1:11pm
Current Government pensions (aged, carer etc) are all paid from tax receipts and are therefore paid for by the working Australians. This site has frequently discussed this issue at length. There is no account held by the Government with an individual's name on it marked "Pension". Tax I (and others) pay now goes towards health care, education, roads etc and of course some to all the welfare payments which includes aged pensions. Tax today's pension recipients may have paid in the past went on those things too. We do have to move away from the idea that everyone 'deserves' or is 'entitled' to a pension because it is not true any more.

Superannuation brought in in the early '90s is meant to fund people's retirement in the future. For many people, the employer contribution won't be enough and they are being reminded of that constantly and encouraged to make their own payments during their working life to make up the deficit. And they will have longer to do it - until they are 70. That affects those born in the '70s. Some will heed the warnings other won't.
For people born before that, some have been able to save enough to fund their retirement and well done to them. Others may not have been so fortunate and we do need to make sure we have a system that takes care of them. BUT pensions should be a safety net not a financial alternative to personal responsibility. There are some on pensions who are asset rich and income poor and so draw a full pension. Why is this still allowed to continue? They should be liquidating assets and not relying entirely on the Government. If that means selling the family home that only one person is living in then so be it. Why should it be 'saved' simply to hand on to the heirs? People worked hard and built their assets to ensure a reasonable retirement. So use it for that purpose. We simply can't keep paying at the rate we are now.

For those that through no fault of their own, were not able to amass their own pension funding (e.g. women who raised families, those with genuine disability etc not those who simply spent what they had in expectation of a pension) then the pension should be an amount that covers the basic necessities. That includes the market rate for rent (if the person is renting accommodation) enough to pay utility bills, food, an amount for clothing (although not for high end designer clothes) etc. Enough to live modestly. And this should not be simply linked to wages (for example I have not had an increase in 4 years but prices still rise) nor to CPI since we all know that the 'real world' rises faster than CPI, but based on the real costs of living (e.g. private rents in Sydney even for a unit top $500 a week) according to where you live. Yes that may mean more money to an individual but less overall as more people are made to take responsibility for their own lives. Over time, the number of individuals on pensions should decrease but will never be zero if we still want to offer a safety net for those who need it.

Just keep in mind it will be your children and grandchildren (great-grandchildren?) who will have to keep paying.
bob menzies
23rd Jul 2014
4:09pm
very well written
genimi
23rd Jul 2014
5:12pm
just quietly, I must keep the family home to pass on to my son as he has been on a disability pension since his early twenties and will not benefit from compulsory super as he only managed to work for a couple of years before his breakdown into mental illness - sometimes it is important to be able to house the next generation! I am not receiving any pension - not old enough yet and if they keep hiking up the age qualification may never be! I clearly misread the budget papers because I thought the reversion to CPI was only for DSP - and that was worrying enough as I already have to subsidise my son's health care needs. While I may never be in a position of having to subsist on a pension (I do have super thankfully) I can see the human suffering this will cause. there are many expenses which do not get included in the CPI 'basket' that people will still have to pay for with a reducing value in their income. I am definitely in support of any action that would make them see the light on this. Someone pointed out a while ago that with the increase in the age qual and the increase in peoples ability to provide for themselves in future years through superannuation, and the obvious natural attrition in those numbers of people who currently rely on the pension because they did not work through a period of compulsory super, the drain on the public purse will be diminishing anyway. The area of welfare that does need looking at is the so-called middle class welfare - one example is the child care fees that get paid out of the public purse - are you aware that stay at home mums can receive subsidised child care for a certain number of hours per week even when they are not working or studying or even looking for work?
MacI
23rd Jul 2014
5:14pm
I agree in principle that pensioners who are income poor but asset rich due to the value of their home should be required to downsize in order to help fund their retirement. However I think it would be almost impossible to put into practice. How do you set a threshold for the value of a home? An average home in Sydney may be twice, three times the value of a home in a country town.

At least the new funding model for Residential Aged Care will require those who are wealthier to pay more towards their care once they vacate their home and move into care. No more deals with Aged Care Providers to negotiate the size of the bond to maximise their Aged Pension.

While no doubt controversial perhaps the reintroduction of death duties would a way of redeeming some of the Aged Care Pension outlays from those who were income poor but asset rich due to the value of their home. It may also encourage people to downsize if they know the government will get their loot in the end.
KSS
23rd Jul 2014
8:13pm
I see the pension and aged care as separate issues. In the UK for example if you go into aged care and you own your home, the home automatically has to be sold to pay for the aged care. There are limits on how much you pay but the home goes (unless there is a spouse/dependant who still lives there and once they go into care the home is sold to pay for it). I don't see why the same can't be done here.
MacI
24th Jul 2014
5:28am
KSS. The situation with Aged Care is much the same in Oz as in the UK. If there is no spouse/dependent living in the family home then it is considered an asset for the purpose of assessing the level of government support for both the Aged Pension and Aged Care.
I see the Aged Pension and Aged Care (in-home or residential) linked in that they both relate to the cost of retirement.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:04pm
KSS: Whilst I agree with much of what you say there are other considerations. Is it fair if one family lived it up for 40 years and then retired with no savings and went on a full pension whilst another family saved, deprived themselves of everything and then on retirement wanted a part pension and used the rest of their savings to have the life they never had whilst working? It seems unfair to me that those who had the good life then retire, take a full pension and then criticise those who are a bit better off.
Maybe I am old fashioned but I see little fairness in having it both ways. And of course there are always many shaeds of grey. It is not an easy issue.

23rd Jul 2014
1:15pm
DO you folk actually know wjat you are complaining about.

Pensioners spend their money on a basket of goods and services.

The government is proposing that pension indeb=xation be tied to rise in the price of goods and services.

Where is the problem in that. How can you be worse off ?

COTA is playing on human greed
Polly Esther
23rd Jul 2014
1:24pm
Yep !
Juris
23rd Jul 2014
1:48pm
Earth to Solomon - come on down to the real world and experience thye world of a disability pensioner for yourself
Anonymous
23rd Jul 2014
4:21pm
You didnt answer the question Juris.

How can you be worse off ???
genimi
23rd Jul 2014
5:15pm
because not all goods and services are in the 'CPI basket'
Rosscoe
23rd Jul 2014
5:19pm
Solomon, the Government is relying on the fact that the graphs of MALE WEEKLY EARNINGS are rising faster than the CPI. The NNP government members have chosen the option that will save them more money, and disadvantage poorer people disproportionately. This is a very nasty government!
Brycet
23rd Jul 2014
8:35pm
The CPI is a basket of 100,000 items including things like the new luxury BMW to the second hand KIA depending whether a significant number of transaction occur. Plus it is weighted by a non-existent average household because it includes the rich and the poor in the one pool. There are superior cost of living indexes that could be collected for particular income groups such as pensioners. So why not use them. Rosscoe hits the nail on the head it won't save money and force people to look to their Super or perhaps more children to look after us in old age.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:08pm
Solomon: the problem is firstly that the CPI is a joke because it is tampered with. everybody knows that the figures whichvcome out saying no appreciable rise are fixed because a trip to the supermarket always tells a totally different story.
Secondly the salaries of politicians, CEOs and their Boards are not tied to the CPI so why should those of pensioners? It loos like a rules for some and (different) rules for others to me. I for one disagree with you.
brushie
23rd Jul 2014
1:22pm
Mr Christian??? I definately say NOT!!!!!!! What happened to looking after our aged, they have worked all their lives and now are going to be punished. I am on Disability and i struggle now, medical extra costs etc are killing me, yesterday alone i paid $296 for one of my Drs and I only got back $130 that is less than half, i had an appointment only 3 weeks ago that i got back less than half for it also, another in 3 weeks and the same will happen. The cost of food goes up each F/N it seems, the cost of Petrol is DISGUSTING!! We need to take a stand. STOP this Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey. Why don't you both go and try living on this amount of money each fortnight?????? Bet they couldn't. essenar and Travellersjoy i agree with you both 100%
Polly Esther
23rd Jul 2014
1:37pm
Seems to me, if you found a bulk billing clinic it may be of benefit to you. They are out there. Just a thought. Meanwhile hang in there, think like Monty Python, chin up, blood pressure down.
PlanB
23rd Jul 2014
1:51pm
Flying Dr -- there are NO bulk billing Specialists, and they cost a fortune to see I had to see a couple myself of late.
Juris
23rd Jul 2014
2:01pm
Well said PlanB and the "gap" is getting bigger and bigger all the time. For all those CPI enthusiasts - the Doctors'/Specialists "gaps" increase a lot faster than the CPI - where does that leave a pensioner?
brushie
23rd Jul 2014
2:46pm
The flying doctor as PlanB said there is no Bulk Billing Specialists any more, thanks to the Government!!!! Juris you are so right about the gap getting bigger and bigger also! I have so many specialists i have to see and on a fairly regular time frame. and some of my medications i have to pay full price for!
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:12pm
Brushie: you are dealing with politicians (Abbott, Hockey, Pyne, Bishop, etc) who simply do not care. They view you and I simply as pawns on a chessboard and as such expendable. They'll only take notice if pensioners unite, vote against them and preferably vote in a good Independent. Both sides of politics are scared to death of this strategy because it will be the end of them....as it should be.
So pass the logic and strategy around to your friends. It is the only way to end what is happening in the parliament and get the country back on track with REAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE PEOPLE, not the vested interests.
scragger
23rd Jul 2014
1:23pm
Where is the petition for my wife and I, plus friends, to sign?
ozzie
23rd Jul 2014
1:41pm
indeed, I did know what those Conservative lairs have proposed. They will carry out this change in indexation at their own peril. He'll be "One Term Tony" if his lies and "heavy lifting" has to be carried out. The PUP's have said they'll oppose many of the Budget Changes....but I guess that's anyone's guess. Both sides have "agreed" to not index the Assets/Income test for 3 years from 2017....so we're stuck with that....at least the "indexation of Pensions" should remain as it is......
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:14pm
I suggest that Abbott is already out. But expect a sweetener (bribe) before the next election. My suggestion is to ignore it because it Abbott Inc. is voted in again then you ain't seen nothin' yet and we will all suffer much worse.
Frank
23rd Jul 2014
1:47pm
The Aged Pension should not be linked to salaries, because they may not increase.
CPI indexing would ensure rises in line with the cost of living. It appears to be the only accurate method.
What would happen in the case of another Super/ Productivity trade off?
Pensioners don't get an increase for a few years? That would not be fair!!
genimi
23rd Jul 2014
5:17pm
perhaps it should be an either/or? whichever is the greater - CPI or increases in male AWE
MITZY
25th Jul 2014
11:26am
It should be left as it is now. Governments/Treasurers don't change things very often to benefit pensioners and the Rudd/Gillard governments did single pensioners like me a good deed in giving us a substantial rise in pension.
To go back to CPI is not to our advantage. The current rate of 6.9% to GDP according to the last government intergenerational forecast to 2050 indicates at that time the rate will still be 6.9% of GDP. There will be more pensioners at that time but they will not be pensioners on a FULL government pension due to the age pension rise to 70 years and the fact that more will have "more" superannuation and other assets than the pensioners of today. This is all scare tactics.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:19pm
The rich always have a way to ensure that they get plenty of money before anybody else. That is a hard thing to change when the rich fund candidates into office...and then wait for the return on capital. Why do you think that the Carbon Tax was repealed? Certainly not because it was not working bacause it was. Certainly not because it was hurting Australian business becausw Australian business was quite happy to keep it apart from the coal, gas, oil and generator industires.
The way to change the politics is by getting rid of both Labor and Liberal and the only way to do this is to vote Independent...and to discuss this with all of your friends so that they also understand that joining forces will bring the bastards down at their own game.
PlanB
23rd Jul 2014
2:07pm
Also even if one has top medical cover --for hospital--the gaps that you have to pay are over the top --I had a friend that had an operation done of late and it cost him heaps and also had to pay for every medication that he had -- If one pays for top cover surely you should not have to pay a lot in gaps -- plus Antithesis
Frank
23rd Jul 2014
2:15pm
Health Insurance is a rip off, simple as that. Many people with top cover are paying out their life savings to Doctors and Pharmacists.
Australians run up costs of $125B of which about $25B comes out of our pockets.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:39pm
Frank- Health Insurance and medicare between them rip off the system's they set up.
Tom Tank
23rd Jul 2014
2:13pm
It is interesting that Abbott and Hockey say that some people are trying to re-start class warfare. Well a look at the unfairness of the budget gives a clear indication of who is starting it.
Why can't right wing people look at countries like Norway who have been congratulated on how they have handled their mineral boom as compared to how we are mishandling ours.
Mining companies here are getting subsidised by Governments, mainly State, to dig and export Australian owned property overseas without paying a fair amount of tax.
This Federal Government supports that thus depriving us of income to our nation.
The old "Furphy" of jobs will be lost if they are taxed is such a load of codswallop, surely no one with any common sense supports that argument.
A proper taxation system of all "heavy" earners would fix all supposed budgetary problems and maintain pensions and other welfare needs.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:20pm
Abbott said before the election that he did not want to engage in class warfare. But just like all of his other lies he did exactly that with the budget.
Mike
23rd Jul 2014
2:21pm
i will sign the petition for sure.
I can recall where I was several years ago when I heard Abbot saying that his sense is that if your not well enough off well then he feels its that persons problem. The man has no social conscience zilch humanity and likewise for the deliverer Joe Hockey who used to smile whilst he was in opposition has gone and also lets not forget the one who loads the gun the one and only Peta Credlin and her husband Brian Loughnane federal director of the Liberal Party of Australia since February 2003. Who would dare stand up to them. I would anyday.
Patriot
23rd Jul 2014
2:34pm
Kaye,
Thanks for offering this subject for discussion
Yes, I would certainly sign a Petition.

The problem with Australia – as with many countries in the world – is that we do not live by “Trail & Error” but by “Trial & Terror”!

This was not so in the early 20th century as Australia then was a wealthy country and, yes, as our Pollies keep reminding us: “Times have changed”.

CAUSE & AFFECT:
Indeed, TIMES HAVE CHANGED, and thse changes were initiated with an action which took place in the Australian Parliament in the mid 1920s. The devastating effect of these decisions & actions has been slowly “taking its Toll” during all those years and the gravity of them is being felt in the past 30 years or so as their affects are further aggravated by implementation of policies which DO NOT BENEFIT AUSTRALIA.
Instead, they only benefit the multinational corporations.

The actions taken are clearly outlined & explained, along with their detrimental mechanisms in documents which can be downloaded at the Web on the following links.

The Money trick – Newer edition available in print
https://archive.org/details/TheMoneyTrick
Extract of the book below
http://www.restoreaustralia.org.au/fileuploads/the_story_of_the_commonwealth_bank.pdf
Story of the Commonwealth Bank
http://www.aussieindependence.com/370322328

The above links PROVE clearly why Australia, and every other nation on the planet, is going “Down the Shoot” and are essential reading if one wants to understand why!
The actions enacted by our parliament were also enacted by theirs.
Just look up the following link on YouTube and you'll find the story for the USofA.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+story+of+jekill+island

POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS:
During the Late 80s a distinguished chap by the name of Geoffrey de Q Walker (then Dean of the Law Dept. at Saint Lucia Uni in Brisbane) made a tour through inland Queensland to promote his latest book by the name of "The People's Law". BRILLIANT !!!
He promoted the mechanisms explained therein as the solution to the many problems that the “Trained Eye” was starting to detect on Australia's near horizon.

The links below are providing links for downloading this book and associated documentation to further support his convictions.
It clearly explains the mechanisms for:
1 People (rather than politicians) to be able to call a referendum
2 People to be able to repeal enacted legislation at any time
3 Explains (contrary to the convictions of our Pollies) how “Wwe The People” are really quite smart and – over the years – have only passed ONE referendum that decreased our powers and have rejected ALL OTHER SUCH ASSULTS from Canberra.

Once again, essential reading if we are interested in regaining control of OUR AUSTRALIA.

The People's Law”
http://www.cis.org.au/images/stories/policy-monographs/pm-10.pdf
Citizens Initiated Referenda – Research Bulletin
http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/explore/ResearchPublications/researchBulletins/rb0198hg.pdf

Australia — a democracy or just another ballotocracy?
http://www.nationalobserver.net/pdf/2008_australia_a_democracy_or_just_another_ballotocracy.pdf
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
8:39pm
Patriot - thanks for the info and the reading. very interesting.
my fear is that King O'Malley may have had far more insight than he even thought when he uttered these words - and whose brains, if extracted, dried and placed in the quill of a cocksparrow and blown into the eye of a bee, would not even make him blink.
Jackie
23rd Jul 2014
2:37pm
I feel very strongly that this sneaky move (to change the indexation to CPI, not "average wages") should be OPPOSED. If you get up a petition, I will sign it. The current indexation works well and we can keep up - CPI would be a retrograde step. Today's news that Joe Hockey (in his authorised biography) privately thought the Budget was NOT TOUGH ENOUGH shows their thinking. Other areas of the economy could well be targeted, which would have easily create the savings they wanted. DONT FORGET THAT PENSIONERS SPEND ALL THEIR MONEY LOCALLY - ANY CUTS TO THEIR TOTAL INCOME WILL ADVERSELY IMPACT SMALL BUSINESS.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:45pm
I don't even go to Vinnies or the Salvos for clothes anymore !! I bet They miss Me ??.. I make do with what I have .. Steptoe's Socks !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
8:50pm
not only small business Jackie, but many charities will feel the loss of the voluntary support from Pensioners , especially the one's who travel and use there own vehicles.
in2sunset
23rd Jul 2014
9:02pm
Particolor - no wonder you no longer go to Vinnies & Salvos. Have you seen what they charge lately? $25 for a used paid of shoes. $18 for a well worn shirt from Millers. My 72 year old pensioner aunt used to struggle on the pension, but now she has a passion for garage sales, and she has bought some stunning bargains. That is her 'hobby' and she is really into it, often buying things to do up then sell off. It fills in her time, gives her an interest, and some much needed extra cash. But why should she HAVE to scrounge to survive?
particolor
25th Jul 2014
2:25pm
in2sunset ..Your going to the wrong Vinnies ! The Salvos here are like that ! But Vinnies is Terrific and very low prices ! Shirts 2 Bucks, Pants and Jeans 2 Bucks, Coats 5 Bucks ..What could be Fairer ??..
PS.. Good Shoes 2 to 5 Bucks !! CHEERS !!
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
2:44pm
PUT POLITICIANS ON CPI STARTING IN TEN YEARS TIME !! WHEN THEIR RECENT PIG OUT STARTS WEAR OFF A TAD !!...
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
2:53pm
STARTS To WEAR OFF A TAD !!
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
2:58pm
Someone has Emailed the Libs ?? Here they come !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:34pm
But the pig had a gastric banding.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:52pm
Ands Foot and Mouth Disease..
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:17pm
methinks it is setting itself up to be Boss Hogg.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:22pm
Write to your local memeber and the local paper and suggest that politician wages need to be linked to the CPI. No more Independent Remuneration Tribunals (a scam). No more bleating about their hard lot. Just indexed pay increases....just like pensioners.
Frank
25th Jul 2014
2:41pm
particolor, I agree!! Why stop at politicians though?
Put ALL the 1,900,000 public servants on the cpi increases!!!
particolor
25th Jul 2014
3:32pm
Yes put Politicians and Public Servants (Joke) on the CPI and I'll bet You any Money it doesn't come out at 0.0025% like the Howard Years !! No it will be 10% and Pensioners will get Pro Rata amount of it !!..You Cant Win !!
Young
23rd Jul 2014
2:46pm
And how much pension do the very poor in Asian and African countries get.
We are a lot of whingers.
No one in Australia lives in poverty.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
4:08pm
YET !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:41pm
pray tell why they are all trying to get here to get one.
PlanB
24th Jul 2014
7:20am
No one in Australia lives in poverty.

Rubbish of course there are plenty
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:24pm
Val: You miss the point that there are those in third world countries who behave even worse than our own governments. There are the mega rich there too who exploit their own people and pay off governments to not do anything. So are Australians supposed to let themselves be pushed back into serfdom? I think not.
Young
23rd Jul 2014
2:46pm
And how much pension do the very poor in Asian and African countries get.
We are a lot of whingers.
No one in Australia lives in poverty.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
2:56pm
BY 1990 No Australian Child will be living in Poverty !!
brushie
23rd Jul 2014
2:57pm
Sorry Charlie, but they have a completely different Financial structure in those countrys, so you really can't compare ours against theirs! And how dare you say that no one in Australia lives in Poverty!! You just have to look out in the streets and see these poor people, families etc, because they can't afford rent and food etc!!!
Juris
23rd Jul 2014
2:58pm
none so blind as the ones who don't want to see. Were you the writer for Bob Hawke when he said that "no child in Australia will live in poverty by the year ...."?
what an utterly moronic thing to say.
brushie
23rd Jul 2014
3:11pm
I think so Juris!!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
3:48pm
1990 - back to the future is here.
Brycet
23rd Jul 2014
2:46pm
Over the life of a pensioner who retires in 2017 the real purchasing power will approximately halve given cost following current growth rates, which there is no reason to expect otherwise. Retire in 20 years time and a pension will not be viable income source on its own, you will have to use your Super for this purpose no holidays or paying of the mortgage. But how much must you now put away as a young person. Some punters suggest that just to get the age pension with all the benefits you would need between $300,000 and $600,000 depending on life expectancy, health, housing etc. A big range. The financial institutions will no doubt be out there telling everyone how much you need to put away, probably worked out there fees already. All things combined a lot of money coming out of the real economy, sorry Harvey Norman and other retailers. For the poor soles who didn't put enough away or perhaps ran one of the many micro business in Australia, coffee shop or hairdresser perhaps, or someone who just took a chance and failed or worked for that person. There are many reasons why a society should have a viable age pension that goes beyond self interest of the existing pensioners. This is just plain bad policy from all sides. Unless you want to argue that this is the governments first direction action on climate change as the old people eat less, turn of the electricity, gas and stop running a car, don't go to the doctor or travel, die early. I am sure the diehard government supporters could manufacture a case. By the way have not heard much from Labor on this subject maybe a bit of suffering or threat of same is good for membership. Finally my own experience is of someone who has lived on a CPI indexed pension for 10 years so I do appreciate how quickly your purchasing power decreases. Except I knew it would happen and invested accordingly plus in the end thought there would be an age pension or part thereof as a last resort.
HappySoul
23rd Jul 2014
2:52pm
What a bunch of whingers and whiners who think they are owed. Bad news for you, none of us are owed anything.
Yes it can be tough but it is possible to live on the pension alone and there are many people who do that.
Maybe some people just need to do a little rethink on how/where they spend their money and they might find life is not so difficult after all plus these changes are not due to come into effect till 2017.
To those who complain about medical bills. I have several disabilities and very regular appointments with GP as well as specialists and EVERY ONE of them bulk bills. If yours don't then take a good look around and you will find some excellent medical practitioners who do.

All the whiners and whiners who claim they find it very difficult to live on the pension now can help remedy that by starting with having the internet disconnect and that will give you an absolute minimum of $5 extra a week.
Juris
23rd Jul 2014
3:02pm
very hard to look around in the country, you have to take what's given to you. By your statements I can guess what at least one of your disabilities are!
brushie
23rd Jul 2014
3:06pm
Happy Soul, yes my GP does but none of my Specialists do! It depends in what State or Territory you live in if they bulk bill these days!!!! I am also one of the lucky ones that has a GP that bulk bills, because there are not many here that do!!!! Did you work all your life and pay taxes?? Well you are owed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brycet
23rd Jul 2014
6:24pm
But Medicare is also on this Governments hit list, so far rejected by PUP. Although this discussion is about how by stealth the age pension will reduce in purchasing power over time if indexed by CPI rather than how government services will increase in cost by co-payments.
HappySoul
23rd Jul 2014
6:30pm
Juris
I do live in the country near a town with a population of less than 500 and have to travel to larger town to see Dr.
By the way, my brain is fine but if you have a son who suffers from mental illness as you wrote, surely you realise that negativity breeds negativity and that is the majority of what is being written here.
HappySoul
23rd Jul 2014
6:44pm
brushie
I live in rural NSW and all the specialists I see bulk bill for my visits. Before the first visit, my GP wrote "Please Bulk Bill" on the referral and that is what happened and continues to happen.
Yes I worked for 46 years, including part time when I had my 3 children, till 4 years ago [ aged 62 ] when my disabilities made it impossible for me to continue but don't believe I am owed.


Brycet
I do not have a problem with a medical co-payment and would rather pay now in the knowledge that Medicare will be there for my grandchildren. Right now this country has a massive debt and the interest payments will only increase over time so unless expenditure is reined in now, there will be even less money for government services in the future.
As for PUP, they have not exactly shown themselves in a good light so far but of course only time will tell. Maybe if the PUP Senators paid less attention to Palmer it might be different but so far I am not impressed.
brushie
23rd Jul 2014
8:16pm
Happy Soul, You might be a lucky one but here in the ACT we don't!!!!!!!!!!!! I only have 1 out of 7 specialists that will bulk bill me.
Brycet
23rd Jul 2014
9:14pm
But Happy Soul, you do understand a co-payment very quickly becomes full payment given the age pension is not sustainable and after that the unsustainable health system and Medicare is gone by a thousand small increase. Or perhaps just 10 increases at $7 each would do the job for most bulk billing GPs.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:25pm
Happy Sould: Your sentiments are the same as those who take all and give nothing. I was not aware that the Law of the Jungle was how we operated int his country.
scorps
23rd Jul 2014
3:02pm
where is the petition ?
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:43pm
Its before the Senate at the Moment !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:44pm
Not a problem, as long as the senate is well endowed, has a lot of money and say's nothing .
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:57pm
But bring a whipper snipper with you.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:23pm
Yes I noticed that She wants a Bundle and a Package !!
Yvonne
23rd Jul 2014
3:07pm
Yes, this legislation will affect me and yes, I will sign a petition to rid us of it!
Even protest in the street if need be.
particolor
25th Jul 2014
3:23pm
I'll dance Naked on the Opera House Roof !!
Rock
23rd Jul 2014
3:13pm
Need to put out a Petition to all Autralians to look after our pensioners and another petition to make politians have to work to 70 years to get their pensions, if they deserve to get one.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:24pm
Best so far ..
Mar
23rd Jul 2014
3:17pm
I would definitely sign a petition. When, where?
Not Senile Yet!
23rd Jul 2014
3:27pm
KSS....Wrong..Wrong...Wrong..!!!!
There was an Account called Pensions...it was created to provide for the large amount of Baby Boomers who would not have enough savings or Super......it was created by taking an extra 4% in tax from everyone.
However...when our economy last had a slowing down in the 90's the Liberals & the Labor Parties BOTH voted to use that fund to kick start the economy by investing it in infrastructure (Hospitals, Roads, Public Transport etc) by spending it!!!!!
Yes they spent the money put aside to pay for everyone's pensions!!!!
Not only that but they never replaced it as they said they would.!!!
They never decreased our taxes either......so they kept taking the 4% but now it went into the General Revenue Black Hole!!!!!
KSS.....You are so ill-informed it is hard to feel anything but remorse for your total brainwashing by the Papers & Party Machine Propaganda experts.....surely you cannot believe that crap you put up??? The Government is so Broke that it signed up for 60Billion worth of Planes on the Ozzie Credit Card......PLEASE!!!!
Both Parties Built the NEW PARLIAMENT with the Baby Boomers taxes and now they want to Punish the Pensioners of the Future that paid for it as well.
These people are just PUPPETS and do not SERVE the People!!!!!!
They are just PIGS at the TROUGH of Australians taxation system........hogging in for all they are worth!!!!!
And NO I will never vote for a Party Machine Puppet, and if I have my way nor will any of my family or friends!!!!!
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:29pm
BRAVO !!!
Patriot
23rd Jul 2014
3:32pm
NSY
Memory is still very good and accurate.
However, only those who HAVE ears will be able to hear
Patriot
23rd Jul 2014
3:45pm
NSY,
The current problems have their roots somewhere in the NOT SO DISTANT PAST.
In order to fix them we must first "Study & Understand" what causes the current problems.
Only then will we be able to fix the "Root Cause" and thereby the current problems and the future of Australian kids. If we are unwilling to uncover the past, we are unwilling to resolve the issues "At Hand".
All we are doing is whinging and the Criminals in Canberra are laughing with glee whilst they are stealing our, & our kids dignity .
scorps
23rd Jul 2014
3:48pm
good on ya ! i do keep wondering why we the people dont get acknowledged for actually having contributed well throughout the years enough to be entitled to our aged pension pittance.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
4:51pm
Not Senile Yet - That is the Truth of the matter.
KSS
23rd Jul 2014
8:35pm
A pity Not Senile Yet that you didn't read what I actually wrote and are commenting on your interpretation of something I didn't. Perhaps if you weren't so quick to judge and insult me you would actually see that I am advocating for a MUCH HIGHER pension for those who did not have the opportunity to save in superannuation. And that that pension should be based on real-life costs not simply a CPI or average wage. BUT the caveat being that those who have assets that could well support them should not be receiving a Government pension whilst those same assets are left to heirs.

The simple truth is that things have to change and whilst you may still live in the era of "I paid my taxes I am entitled" you also say "Yes they spent the money put aside to pay for everyone's pensions!!!!" ergo there is NO pension account with your name on it. Things have changed and it is necessary to deal with the situation as it is NOW not as it may have been 20/30/40+ years ago.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:27pm
Not Senile Yet: Well spoken.
moonryver
23rd Jul 2014
3:28pm
This govt is an abomination. Treating elderly, disables etc like 2nd class citizens. The pension is hard enough to live on now. Getting less will put all of us below the poverty line
Young
23rd Jul 2014
3:29pm
And how many of these poor people in the streets are dying.
They still have their cigarettes and grog.
We still live in a land of great opportunity.Did the so called poor people grab the chance when young?
My parents started with very little but they worked hard and have done well.
So have my wife's parents.They even saved money from the pension and that was after they toured Australi in the caravan.
No takeaway or frozen meals for us.We grew our own and saved.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
3:37pm
Good for You Charlie !! Now sit back and Relax !!..
The Doleys Where I live have Ciggy's and Grog !! But they don't pay their Power Bills nor their Rent ?? AND they don't get Kicked out either ?? What is Going on ??...
Some of them here Grow Their Own TOO !!....
brushie
23rd Jul 2014
3:48pm
Ummm Charlie, are you even Pension aged??? Yes i agree there are some that use the system and get away with it, but there are alot of true pensioners that are struggling and this is worrying them! I also grow my own Vegies it helps a little and taste is better, but meat, dairy and other foods cost alot. I don't use pre made foods i make from scratch also.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:32pm
Val: Your description sounds like my family. Only we did it much tougher to save a nestegg, which we are now enjoying. Having lived on the smell of an oily rag for 40 years we feel entitled not to be done over when others have spent their funds on the way through. But as always there are many shades of grey as well.
I battle for a fair go for all Australians and hope that in the end that a fair carve up of the pie is achieved. My wife and I may well be punished for living a meagre existence but such is the betrayal from those we elect.
ANONYMOUS
23rd Jul 2014
3:34pm
Why not keep some long term promises and leave Pensions ALONE!!! People living just on or just above the poverty line have the most to lose but these silly arguments!!! We did our best, have made our choices or had them made for us ( by ill health and life's tortures to us ) and become pensioners. All of us for individual reasons and circumstances .............. So you can't wave a magic paintbrush and paint us all back 10 or 20 years in time .......... and that's what it would take to undo what has been done to us.

We need and depend the money and benefits we receive and we need them to be stable and unquestioned ............... Please STOP BULLYING US - it is Cruel and Inhumane!!!
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:36pm
Take a stand. Vote for a good Independent and send the clearest of all messages. Tell your friends about this too.
Not for you? Then suffer what we have as not taking the right medicine means a continuation of the illness. So why do you think that both sides begges the electorate not to vote for Independents? No it wasn't because of the stale mates. It was because both sides fear being pushed out by those who want to do the bidding of the country rather than vested interests who care nothing about the nation.
So what are you going to do????

23rd Jul 2014
3:47pm
Yes I see a lot of whingers here you are lucky to get anything and as was said earlier you don"t see pensioners living in the street you mostly find them in the pub playing the pokies or bingo.
You all received your benefits such as child endowment free schooling for your kids and self and roads and other infrastructure built with your tax dollars (if you paid any)Why should you get any increase if you havn"t enough sell your houses and downsize whatever it takes
scorps
23rd Jul 2014
4:00pm
love your compassion Robo ! fits right in there with the libs !!!!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
5:09pm
playing pokies or bingo. open your bigoted eyes, A lot of the one's in your local Lions club, your local Rotary club and many other organisations are PENSIONERS.
Join an organisation and you will find YES there ARE Pensioners living on the street.
who by the way more than likely paid taxes towards your education and Healthcare.
If by chance misfortune should fall upon you which I hope it doesn't, but if it does don't whinge about it. sell what you have and pay for it yourself.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:42pm
ROBO..After reading what You wrote there, Me nor any of My Friends go anywhere near those things anymore, and haven't for years !!. And JUST Manage from Pension to Pension !! Now go and ask one or two of those Players where they get the Money to Carry On like that and You will find that They are Self Funded Retirees or Street Urchins !!..Go and sell Your Mansion and Pay 500 Bucks rent and ^^ Upwards and see how You get on !!...
Aussiefrog
23rd Jul 2014
8:17pm
Robo, what can I say? YOU'RE JUST A JERK!
PlanB
24th Jul 2014
7:31am
Robo--selling your home and downsizing still costs a heap with stamp duty etc --and plus I worked long and hard to get and own the house I have. I don't play pokies or drink or smoke either.
Robi
24th Jul 2014
10:38am
The majority of homeowners spent most of their adult life working to pay their mortgage in order to develop some financial security in their older age. Many in our generation did it tough in the 1980's and 90's crippled by high interest rates. It is cruel to suggest that we should sell the home we spent all those years acquiring to finance our old age and relieve taxpayers of some of the burden of financing our pensions. That argument rather makes the commitment and effort of struggling to buy a home meaningless. Woe the day when 'downsizing' is no longer a choice but a dire necessity.
particolor
24th Jul 2014
2:14pm
Rubiconda Its not about You suffering all those Years of High Interest rates to secure a future for You in Retirement now !!..Its all about Politicians and Their Thousands of Hanger Oners and Press Secretaries, Heads of Departments, Etc, Securing a LUXURIOUS Retirement for themselves and familys !! Don't ask Me what all those Heads of Deparments and Apendages DO !! When the Deparment they are Heading has been Sold or Out Sauced ?????
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:40pm
ROBO: Please tell me WHO owns the country. Is it the politicians because they are in charge? Is it the rich because they control the funds? Or is it the people as a group because they own the country?
In your talk about being "lucky" you miss the point that whilst big business deserves its cut it does not own the country and should not be permitted to take everything. Yes we are "lucky" but big business with successive Liberal governments has been trying to change any fairness for a long long time. Remember Work Choices? I do. Its better known as serfdom and I for one do not want my great grandchildren to be born as slaves. Thank you very much.
Kato
27th Jul 2014
3:15pm
they must be retired pollies.
Bones
23rd Jul 2014
3:52pm
For those of you that are relying on some type of Social Security, you should never expect a Conservative Government to look after you. They simply exist to be of benefit to the upper crust of our society.
We can only hope and prey that the Senate block these very cruel intentions of Abbott, Hockey and Cormann.
Lets ensure that this is a one term Government.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:50pm
Bones ...Will it Matter ??.. They are all Brushed with the Same Tar now !!
Wiktor
23rd Jul 2014
3:55pm
Have voted LNP from day one but the parties attitude to pensioners is nothing short of scandalous. Sure successive governments have paid scant attention to forward age population indicators and now oops we cannot afford to pay pensioners a reasonable pension. Where has all the taxes we have paid over the years gone. Wasted on junkets and so called learning visitations. You bet I would sign a petition to stop this policy ever seeing the light of day. Very very disappointed with the attitude of the LNP. To much change all too soon.
Tim@toc
23rd Jul 2014
5:50pm
I think you will find all the taxes we have paid over the years have gone to the myriad forms of welfare handed out by both sides of the political divide.
Bones
23rd Jul 2014
3:57pm
I will sign a petition, I will also be writing to my local MP
particolor
25th Jul 2014
2:32pm
Good Idea Bones !! Your local MP has probably got a Paper Shredder ??
sibbo
23rd Jul 2014
4:00pm
It is quite upsetting how the Government is increasing the age pension to 70years but today if you are retrenched and you are 65 years or older your retrenchment package is taxed by the Government but if under 65 it is tax free. Most people working in this age bracket don't own their own homes and are working because of necessity, yet the Government wants it's cut of what will probably be the last income this group will be paid as full time employees. 5000 Qantas employees are being retrenched and a lot of these are long time employees and I am not talking about high paid employees who have had the ability to save and pay off their homes but call centre and office employees who are like the rest of Australians paying a mortgage and keeping their heads just above water. It seems the Government's thinking of its senior citizens needs a major overhaul and this shameful practice needs an answer from Abbot/Hockey Government. It appears to be the sick/disabled/elderly are propping up the short fall the Government is trying to find. Let's put them on the pension rate for a year and see how they cope. It is supposed to be a Government for all Australians not just the affluent in our society.
PlanB
24th Jul 2014
7:34am
sibbo, the reason why these Lib creeps have no idea is because they have never worked hard a day in their life --and have NO idea of the real world and how workers --battlers struggle
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:43pm
They want you to work to 70 and hopefully drop dead early. No pension then. The perfect solution for governments. The fact that Australians over 50 are unemployable and cannot access a pension does not seem to matter and the solution to this corollary is to "retrain" these people and then they still cannot get any job other than a shelf stacker. Quite sick really.
particolor
25th Jul 2014
3:02pm
or a Branch Stacker !!
Young
23rd Jul 2014
4:28pm
And the likes of Jacqui Lambie will be having a say in this.
What a disgrace she is.
I am ashamed to be an Australian with a representative like this.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:53pm
And look at the Package She will receive when She Vamooses !!!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
8:58pm
She may get it even before she vamooses if she keeps advertising.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:46pm
Val: Remember that Jackie Lambie is from Boganville. But lets wait and see if she is worth what we pay her. If she is not prostituted to her leader (I did not mean that to sound like it did) and does a good job then maybe she will be worth what we pay her. At any rate better to have her than Liberal Party puppets who are no more than figure heads with the strings being pulled by big business who direct the Caucus.
guyra2
23rd Jul 2014
4:29pm
I may have missed something but I have seen nothing of the limitations on income Hockey and Abbot propose on themselves ....setting an example????...I am a pensioner and as married couple my wife and I now in our seventies,are concerned about even the basics of comfort...We did our part by selling our home and moving to a relocatable village,,,any
rise is soon consumed by a site rental rise..so we never notice any extra....Why aren't we
allowed the same for both of us that have worked and payed taxs all all of our lives
the same as a single pensioner a lot of whom live with friends or relatives.....our everyday needs and requirements are the same as theirs and yours...but our expenses with the advance of age require many medical services and medications...which have also risen
try two weeks on pension money Mr Hockey and Mr. Abbot.....Sample the lack of
necessities that we endure
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:48pm
Rules for some and (different) rules for others.
Young
23rd Jul 2014
4:34pm
Yes I have been getting the pension for over five years and so has my wife,and we save money each year.We are currently on holiday on the Gold Coast.
When we go home we occasionally get an odd days work doing exam supervision for VCE exams.This keeps us young.
We both walk each day and I play tennis and golf.
My mother is still alive and cooks for herself,but gets no pension.
Young
23rd Jul 2014
4:39pm
I think couples do a lot better on the pension than singles.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:59pm
I'm off to find a Woman !!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
9:09pm
Jaqui's on the prowl.
in2sunset
23rd Jul 2014
9:23pm
Bun - you are absolutely, completely right!! My sister was married, on the pension. Her husband died in a car accident, and straight away, her pension cut to the single pension. But her rates, insurances, car costs, etc remained the same. Before hand, she lived a good, comfortable - but sparing - life with her husband. Now she lives with worry, depression and fear of every bill that comes in. A growing trend in the future will see FRIENDS - of either sex - choosing to share a house just to survive. How soon before the government makes rules against that?
MITZY
24th Jul 2014
2:24pm
in2sunset I can relate to what you say. My husband died two years ago (had MS) I have found it particularly tough managing on the single age pension after receiving the carer payment and carer allowance and my husband the disability pension.
He had MS for 24 years. A 55 I had to leave work to look after him. Finances/savings eroded from that time forward. Lots of medical costs some for alternative ways to keep my husband mobile for slightly more than half the 24 years. To have some quality of life we purchased a mobility vehicle (not an expensive one, but a Holden Combo second-hand with mobility conversions and we had it for the last two years before he died. From the time he passed away it took me 11 months to sell that vehicle (not a great market for these vans) and lost $8,000 on the sale price from what we had paid 2 years previously. That was just one item. Now, I have had to spend just recently $2,844.50 on my second-hand car for a New Head and other parts and needless to say it has left me cashless.
I budget to the extreme to ensure I have finances for all the bills and have a monthly sheet where I list everything I have spent, analyse it and see where I could possibly cut costs. I then transfer these figures to a month by month annual budget sheet and when it comes to the end of the year I have exact data of what I have spent and then use those figures to project what I might have to spend the next twelve months adding 10% to the previous year's figures.
The past two years I have found my pension covered the basics but it is the "unexpected" that has taken the majority of my savings and eroded them.

So, in the future, I can see that in order to survive (thank goodness I'm healthy) I may have to consider the unspeakable of entertaining the idea of one of those "reverse" mortgages to stay in my present home, or I can go from my comfortable well-maintained single-level duplex unit into possibly a one-bedroomed unit. I'm coming up for 73 years of age in September and had no superannuation, just like a lot of pensioners around this age (unless they worked in public service jobs and had super contributions taken from their salaries) and for a heartless government that we presently have installed in Canberra, to lie its way into office, with THERE WILL BE NO CUTS AND/OR CHANGES TO PENSIONS, among other lies, we need to SIGN THIS PETITION AND SHOW OUR ANGER.
Young
23rd Jul 2014
4:43pm
My wife and I have never bought anything on hire purchase or mortgage.We were both taught to save when we were young and never to buy anything unless you pay cash.
This has worked well for us.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
5:56pm
Me Too !!
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:50pm
Good on you Val. This is how it should be done.
Persephone
23rd Jul 2014
4:53pm
Where do I sign. Totally agree with comments by essenar and Travellersjoy. The arrogance of these politicians astounds me. Love to know what their parents and grandparents think of their policies.
particolor
23rd Jul 2014
6:04pm
Don't worry too much !! They pay their parent Bills ,Electrickery and Phone for them on their Generous allowances !!.. Their Mum and Dad are Comfy !!
Thinker
23rd Jul 2014
4:56pm
There has to be a debate on whether age pensions are for income maintenance or poverty alleviation. There is not an unlimited pot of cash to pay pensions. As i understand the position there are about 1.3 million full pensioners and 700,000 part pensions. Did you know a couple can have their own home and well over $1million in investments and still receive a part pension? Suggestions 1 Tighten means test 2 Introduce a "reverse HECS type loan" where full pensioners can borrow from government, interest free to be repaid from estate on death. (if insufficient assets Balance of loan to be written off The pension is not there to enable pensioners to leave money to their children. I would appreciate comments to be polite and deal with issue that there are insufficient resources but to ensure pensioners can live.
Brycet
23rd Jul 2014
5:53pm
Clearly the age pension is for income maintenance for those too old to have an effective role in the workforce. It incidentally solves the second purpose. Otherwise we would be discussing food vouchers and soup kitchens as viable policies. But your argument is about who should pay for a particular level of pension. Hang on let me talk to my lawyer to rearrange my family trust to defeat your suggestions. Getting policies right that differentiate between people is very difficult and most often avoided by people with the resources to do so. tax for example.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:53pm
Thinker: I like the idea of repaying pensions (with interest) from estates with the provision that this is means tested. Perhaps estates with a value under $2 million should be exempt and those over only need to repay the pensions they have accessed. That way you stop those on large superannuation income streams from getting a full pension. Great idea and I think that it would work.
spud
23rd Jul 2014
5:02pm
Of course the CPI should not be indexed for age pension. The present arrangements are inadequate so how can we let ourselves be worse off. We should fight this as strongly as possible. How can we be expected to live on the poverty line. Stop this now.
GrandmaKathleen22
23rd Jul 2014
5:05pm
Robo, shame on you for surmising that all pensioners are at the pub playing the pokies. The ones who are would have to go without food or medicines to do that. Shame on those who prey on people. You are ignorant to think downsizing to somewhere you pay a kind of rent rent and do not even own the land. That is the latest offer from retirement villages. If the pension never rose it would decrease in value. The child endowment did not even cover our milk bill with five children. Have compassion rather than judge people. Also, have you investigated how many elderly are on the streets or in dire circumstances!!!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
5:16pm
Well said.
guyra2
23rd Jul 2014
5:14pm
We as pensioners retired more than 10 years ago ..Living back then we knew things would mean tightening belts and only using the car when a bus wasn't near enough..then for eight years as many older aussies have discovered the art of bringing up children once again as the grand children the single pensioners couldn't afford now became our responsibilities.....as for child allowance...under $20 a day to feed a cloth two teenagers...obviously those that saved didn't have to split their pensions four ways
holidays to dreamed of locations become not only virtually impossible...but not even on our bucket list....single parents have it tougher...they all have the potential of work if at all interested....but working just isn't a cool thing....try to tell the age of cell phones and IPads that eye contact is an experience that may see them in employment....
Do a comparison of monies paid to school leavers and those that are unemployable
because they refuse to learn our culture of language.........there lays the so called
deficit......even more than the Joe Hockeys and Tony abbots that live the life supreme
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
5:17pm
Yep
doris008
23rd Jul 2014
5:23pm
Don't stand here complaining, go to your talk back radio station then spread word, then let people know that there be rally outside Canberra, get started now before way too late. I didn't vote for this government because Abbott looks down on every one, yes i agree men who get high pay think us working people will be lower class. Watch how Abbott walks on floor saying these old age we get rid them quickly. Then rich get richer and poor get poor just like in Robin Hood, who fight for poor. I;m not proud to be Australian any more i hang my head in sorrow i love move away from here if i could.Oh show news papers what is written here.. I'm sure we will get heard..
MICK
25th Jul 2014
2:58pm
Good one. And maybe folk should think about discussing the solution I have been advocating: to vote for good local Independents and get rid of the toxic people who advertise and get us to vote for them for no other reason other than salesmanship. Your solution + writing to your local paper are the way forward. The question is are Australians smart enough to do what is needed and doing it tough enough yet to go against their ingrained 'beliefs'...which for th emost part may be very wrong after decades of propaganda campaigns.
Mar
23rd Jul 2014
5:29pm
Good on you Grandma Kathleen. Absolutely agree!!
guyra2
23rd Jul 2014
5:31pm
Doris you speak as one but have many voices in our great country....Good Onya
doris008
24th Jul 2014
7:50pm
I am speaking for every one, it no use whinging,stand up and be heard you call this great country our government has pulled down, we can't help it if we growing old as they have remember they get old too.Yes i agree that we going loose money too, but as i said start rally off, in each state let government know that not going stand for their crap. government can be very greedy but they make sure money stays in their pocket. Sorry not going on about this. Just remember we have 3 years do something.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:03pm
Good call doris.
Given that the media mostly will not print anything which speaks against the current government it is imperative that people stop complaining and take this argument to their groups of friends and to the club and offer a solution. Doing the Liberal/Labot toggle is not the way to go because they never learn. The way to fix this is for the pensioners community to get together and vote the same way to send these dispicable politicians on their way. I have advocated that voters needs to VOTE IN A GOOD LOCAL INDEPENDENT so that the major parties get the message. There is no other way. And if this is too difficult for individuals then we as a nation have to continue to be under attack from those who seek to plunder the nation for their own interests. The above will work. It just takes united action.
squirrel
23rd Jul 2014
5:40pm
Cmon tony n joe, us age pensioners deserve the respect of government given our contribution to the nations success. Look after australians first. Then when things improve at home you can provide foreign aid, only to those nations who respect us and mean us no harm.
Aussiefrog
23rd Jul 2014
8:15pm
So true Squirrel
bartpcb
23rd Jul 2014
5:52pm
Mr Hockey and the Liberals generally are full of bull.... The fact is they have picked on the soft target again, the pensioners. How anybody can claim the indexation of an already substandard payment will keep pensioners up with 'cost of living is beyond comprehension. How does 2.3% of the minimum pension equate with 2.3% of $80,000? It's about time pensioners got together and voted out any government that pulls this crap.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:05pm
Well do something about it: VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT (Not the Palmer Party at this stage!!). That will fix the problem. So take the medicine and spread the word around.
guyra2
23rd Jul 2014
5:57pm
Some extremely positive thinking so far in this commentary...only the odd minority that think
life is easy.. Life as such is never meant to be easy.......unless you are politically provided for....I think the media should be aware of this survey..."UNITED WE STAND"
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:05pm
Yes.
Ron Raines
23rd Jul 2014
6:06pm
I think that it is disgusting ,we should be looking after our elderly,no one is ignoring the fact that there will be inevitable increases in the costs of some things , but for heavens sake leave the pensioners out of it, many are feafrul about what may happen to them in the future the only thing many can cut down on is food and in a country as well of as Australia ,this should NEVER be allowed to happen,Thanks for NOTHING the labour government for plundering the funds built up over by the liberals over many years , funds that they saved after the PREVIOUS labour government spent everything and more., they
just cannot handle money. I better stop now , I will support a petition and will write to my local member.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:12pm
Ron: You have been listening to the Abbott propaganda and your asserion is wrong.
Whilst I do not support either side of politics I need to say that Australia did not have unemployment during the worst of the GFC. Had Labor done nothing we would have had this.
Secondly, Australia is not in huge debt. This is one of the Abbott lies sold to you to get you to vote him in. You did. The reality is that Abbott is the real problem and he removed the debt ceiling so that his government could borrow like there is no tomorrow. Perhaps ask a question that the media and its current government will refuse to answer: what was Labor's debt when it left office, and what is the debt now? If you do that and get a truthful answer I am sure that you will be shocked. Abbott is NOT paying off the debt. His budget was not about paying off debt. It was about moving money from averah and poor Australians to the rich, nothing more.
We have to be careful that we do not believe the lies which this government used to get into office. People were conned because they want to believe that they were told the truth. They weren't.
Aussiefrog
23rd Jul 2014
6:17pm
Kaye Fallick could you post the link for the petition in the next Your Life Choice newsletter?
Everyone would be so gratefull, thanks.
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
9:13pm
Great idea
Sallad
23rd Jul 2014
6:22pm
Yes, I would gladly sign a petition. I have seen thousands of pensioners struggling to make ends meet and I believe it is unfair to make them feel guilty. We should look after the seniors better. The unfair resetting of the deeming thresholds in Sep 2017 will see the majority of pensioners, allowees & other low income earners with very limited savings in the bank... see a FURTHER cut in their entitlements. Will supply simple examples of this in the next day or two. In the meantime show me the petition so that I can include my name etc.
Mar
23rd Jul 2014
6:33pm
Kaye, we need an online petition. It would be well and truly full. Online pensioners unite! Many are unable to get out much and would appreciate the ability to let their voices be heard. It could then be emailed to the necessary people that have the power to support us. We need a voice!
Kato
23rd Jul 2014
9:17pm
yep good idea
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:13pm
GREAT IDEA. GetUP does this and it works really well.
DragonLady
23rd Jul 2014
6:46pm
I would be happy to sign a petition to help prevent this becoming legislation. We have to influence the Senate, to block it!
happyjoe
23rd Jul 2014
7:09pm
Yes I would sign any petition to not get this proposal passed.
happy joe 23 july
trood
23rd Jul 2014
7:41pm
I'll sign a petition, bring it on.
I don't know why the govt doesn't take higher taxes in peoples working lives and then pay them a decent pension (like they do in Europe), instead of making people flounder around selecting a superannuation scheme.
hils1950
23rd Jul 2014
7:55pm
Just tell me where to sign!
Finni
23rd Jul 2014
8:09pm
I am all in favour of signing a partition , I have already sent an email to my local member regarding this scraping as I did regarding the disability support pension, maybe if the government brought in a tax like in France to support their people in their old age we all be better off

But then that would be breaking a PROMISE

Finni
jimjon
23rd Jul 2014
9:00pm
In 1942 P.M.Chifley introduced Bills to establish the National Welfare Fund, to be financed by a compulsory contribution (levy). The then Opposition Leader, (Menzies)said " The stigma of charity should be removed from the Age Pension".
In 1949 P.M. Menzies then introduced Bills to amend the Acts governing this Fund, and it was moved in to the Consolidate Revenue Acccount, yet the levy continued.
The fact is this Tax is STILL collected to provide for supply and continuation of the Age Pension !
Pelusa
23rd Jul 2014
9:00pm
Yes, I would sign a petition by all means!
Pelusa
23rd Jul 2014
9:00pm
Yes, I would sign a petition by all means!
DragonLady
23rd Jul 2014
9:16pm
Yes, it's time for Baby Boomers and Pensioners to work together on this - it affects us all sooner or later!
Frank
24th Jul 2014
8:59am
I agree. We should get organised as a group rather than be associated with the Unions.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:15pm
Yes. And maybe consier the solution I have been advocating. The ballot box is there for a reason so lets use it the right way. Having our own flavour is great but we then have to be content if we are burned...as we routinely are.
OLD MILL
23rd Jul 2014
9:51pm
The goverment has no money it is all payed by tax payers , then when they finish giving all there lives to the govement, Liberal goverment want them to work to 70 yrs old, have no time to themselves or grandchildrten, Its more inportant to keep paying tax so every one in govement, can retire when they wish because they automaticly get a huge pension .
I am glad i am a worker, as I wonder how God would see all this, I would not like to be in thier greedy shoes.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:16pm
Rules for some and (different) rules for others.
skippy
23rd Jul 2014
10:15pm
Why oh why didnt the people of Australia see this coming?..Australians have been conned and lied to in a way never seen before in the history of australian politics, Never again will the majority of pensioners vote for a Liberal govt. The only light at the end of this Liberal disgrace is that they will absolutely be removed at the next election, even if the drovers dog is leading labour and pensioners and all decent australian citizens can again be proud of their government.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
3:17pm
The truth is that voters are like cattle for the most part: easily led to the slaughter and gullible. Next time around check out the promises and talk to your community before voting th ewrong way.
Aurora60
23rd Jul 2014
11:11pm
I'll sign the petition. I have trouble walking as my back is deteriorating and not old enough for the pension so they have stuck me on Newstart allowance. Can't afford to go to a specialist to get assistance but have been told by the CRS to get a volunteer job. Have applied for disability and was knocked back. Have tried again - better luck this time? Had to use my super to pay off the house so at least I have a roof over my head. Would like to see Abbot and his spokesman Hockey live on this pittance. There is one petition http://www.markmcgowan.com.au/seniors regarding Senior Cost of Living Rebate so sign this one for a start.
PlanB
24th Jul 2014
7:42am
Aurora, that site does not work
Dotty
23rd Jul 2014
11:31pm
I for one would be the first to sign any Petition against this indexing the aged Pension in line with the cpi!
I am solely on the aged pension with no savings and no super, as I always worked at low income earnings and this will hit me right between the eye,s as I am just keeping my head above water as is !
I am 76 years old now and in bad health with lots of medication !
So this is not the easy life that Mr Hockey seems to think it is for pensioners!
And given that he is sitting there on a huge payment each week that would keep me and a few other's for a year !
But they still don't stop from giving them selves a huge pay rise and then have the cheek to say that the Economy can't afford to keep paying out on Pensioners!
What about them ?? The tax paer has to keep paying out on them and all their perks !
I would like to see Joe Hockey try and last a day let alone a week on what I get on the aged Pension with no Limo's and gold card's etc to have access to like they do and all on the tax payers !!
Dottie
MacI
24th Jul 2014
6:13am
Much of the commentary seems to express outrage at the governments attempts to reign in expenditure. While I wouldn't characterise people expressing these comments as whingers as I have no doubt there are people on struggle street who have valid concerns, e.g. single Aged Pensioners and/or those who find themselves having to pay rent or a mortgage in retirement, I think there is a lack of perspective. You only need to look back a couple of generations to see how well supported we are in retirement.
My parents, now in their late eighties, live off the pension and actually save money. They are working class people who built and paid off a low cost two bedroom home (because it is what they could afford) prior to their retirement and have happily lived a simple lifestyle in their retirement.
My concern is for my children and my grand children. It stands to reason that with the much longer life expectancy that current retirees enjoy and the ever diminishing tax-payer base that there is an issue of affordability that has to be addressed. Our government can't keep borrowing money for ongoing expenditure. It's like living a lifestyle beyond our means on ever increasing debt on a credit card - sooner or later you reach a threshold where debt spirals out of control. If we don't as a nation cut our cloth according to our means then ultimately it is the tax-payer, i.e. younger generations, who will carry the burden.
I don't think linking pension increases to CPI from 2017 is unreasonable given our nations current circumstances. Maybe in the future when our debt is under control and we have a tax-base that can sustain higher pensions then this can be reviewed.
particolor
24th Jul 2014
8:06am
A message from The Wizard of ID.
KSS
24th Jul 2014
12:51pm
KCI I agree with much of what you say. We should remember that 'back in the day' when pensions were introduced most people didn't live long enough to collect even the first payment. Those that did, didn't live much past five years. Today people are living 20 years or more past pension age and as you say, there are fewer people left to pay the tax to fund the pension. It will be inevitable that the Grandchildren and Great Grandchildren of today's pensioners will be left to pick up the tab if things are not changed now.
MITZY
24th Jul 2014
3:05pm
Its a matter of if you believe the "doomsayers" peddling the stories.
If we don't want this to happen, then all we have to do is vote the LNP out of office in 2017 when these changes are due to take effect.
I read an article recently with a heading: "Is Australian welfare spending heading down the same path as Europe? (OECD countries are ones we are often compared with). Kevin Andrews has labelled the Australian welfare system "unsustainable" in 10 to 15 years time. He says Australia COULD (not will) find itself in the same situation that SOME European countries are heading.
THE FACT CHECKER VERDICT: Treasury predictions to the year 2050 show welfare spending as a proportion to GDP will REMAIN THE SAME OVER THE NEXT THREE DECADES
Federal Treasury's 3rd Intergenerational Report on "Australia to 2050 Future Challenges": The report says that government spending on pensions and income support payments in 2009-2010 was 6.9% of GDP. It predicts that there will be minor fluctuations and it will STILL BE 6.9% OF GDP in 2049-2050!!!!!
Andrew Podger, Professor of Public Policy from Australian National University wrote in the Australian Financial Review in January this year "the claim that Australia's welfare system is "unsustainable" would surprise observers in most other OECD nations, which spend much higher percentages of their GDP on social security payments. They indicate our emphasis on flat-rate, means-tested payments rather than earnings-related social insurance has LIMITED THE BURDEN of Australia's taxpayers!!!!!
The ONLY element of the social security system which could be effected would be the introduction of the current government's PAID PARENTAL LEAVE proposal.
And, the bulk of the welfare spend is on Health and Aged Care Services.
THE VERDICT to Kevin Andrews statement was:
There is nothing to indicate that as the population ages in Australia that it is heading towards a high welfare spend like some OECD countries. Because we income test payments more than any other country, we hae the most progressive distribution of benefits in the OECD and we also spend less than the OCED average.
Don't let the "b's" get away with their rhetoric and lies, they are covering over the true facts.
For a country that spends 6.9% from 2009 to 2050 on pensions from GDP and has an economy in the TRILLIONS, just vote them out at the next election in 2017 before they have a chance to implement this UNFAIR POLICY.
Get this petition going KAYE, practically every second poster on this subject is asking for the petition to sign.
Lets get moving with it.
WE DON'T NEED SCARE TACTICS WE NEED POLITICIANS TO STICK BY THEIR PROMISES AND ALSO TO TELL THE FULL TRUTHFUL STORY OF THE "STATE OF THE NATION".
Don't get me started on Hockey's scare tactics about the interest on the deficit either, as that appears to be highly exaggerated too.
MICK
26th Jul 2014
5:25pm
KCI: Whilst you have a valid point of view there are a few other perspectives which you may wish to consider:

1. Pensions are currently linked to wages growth. And why should they not be? The greediest amongst us are not happy with such a mechanism and take much much more so why are pensioners an exception? Is it because the Abbott government seekd and easy mark ot can hit whilst others are exempt?
2. My understanding is that Australian pensions are by no means the best in the world and sit in the middle of the pack.
3. You need to be careful about the Abbott government's rhetoric. It has already been shown to be a disreputable lying group who care little about fairness.
4. Our borrowing, whilst not wonderful, are not being reigned in as we are being told. The next lie. The reality is that Abbott removed the debt ceiling for one reason only: so that he could spend up big.
5. The recent budget was a sham as there business tax cuts (which the rich will take) whilst the rest of us cpped new taxes. It was an outright awindle because the budget is not going to be paid off, ever. So lets wait and see.
Great ideals KCI. I applaud you. But don't be fooled because this is what this government is all about.
speakup
24th Jul 2014
6:15am
Age Pensions should be be decided by the three person committee that the Queensland Premier appointed to determine his own massive salary increase, either that or the increase in food prices that Woolworth's recently made ie a loaf of home brand bread from $1 to $2 100% would be nice
Dukki
24th Jul 2014
8:06am
Wat. Is forgotten , I believe, I'd that not that there will be more
People who r living longer. , bit that They have already paid their taxes, so therefore are entitled t a standard if living with some dignity.
It is not that they r budging if the society.
And perhaps if the powers t be didn't keep , using up Hephaestus money ghost I'd in the coffers by giving themselves astronomical pay rises then perhaps the aged persons sld hve funds available fir their old age
Frank
24th Jul 2014
8:28am
You can say that again!!! I would also like to see a pension for young people who cant find a job!
SA
24th Jul 2014
8:25am
here is the link to a petition http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/hon-joe-hockey-please-remove-the-indexation-on-aged-pensions/suggested_petitions
SA
24th Jul 2014
8:26am
Here is a link to a petition http://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/hon-joe-hockey-please-remove-the-indexation-on-aged-pensions/suggested_petitions - not sure it is the right one
mrswoody
24th Jul 2014
9:23am
I agree that age pensions should be linked to the average wage increases.
It makes me angry that I have worked since before I was 15 until I was 63, and only stopped then after a heart attack and not being well enough to return to work. During this time I paid tax as we all did and I'm sure some of this tax was helpful to the current politicians to support them through their schooling and further studies that they did and now they are hurting the very same people who supported them when they needed it I think they need to stop for a moment, and think about how people our age have helped them to get where they are as not all of them came from influential families.
My husband and I will find it extremely difficult to live if they proposed changes are bought in, as will the $7 fee to go to the doctors, and as we both have ill health this is quite often. We find the beginning of the year very difficult with the cost of prescriptions as we both have so many and reached our limited at the beginning of May, so life is a bit easier for the rest of the year for us.
I know there must be many more people in the same situation as us and a lot worse off and I feel for you all. We were brought up to believe that our taxes would fund our old age and as there was no superannuation for most of my working life, we don't have this to fall back on. I hope we can all band together and stop this, and I would be very happy to do something I have never done in my life, and that is to protest against this...power to the people I think!!!!!!
MITZY
24th Jul 2014
3:17pm
MRSWOODY: So many of us are in the same boat. However, all we have to do collectively is go to the polling booth in 2017 (that is when this legislation is to take effect) and vote this heartless government out of office. Make it a one-term government this time. This rarely happens that we get a one-term government, but we (with our kind hearts) always give a new government a second chance and vote them in for two terms. This government doesn't deserve two terms. It's not just the erosion of pensions that is not necessary (see my comments a few posts above this one) its the medicare co-payments, petrol increases, food increases attached to petrol increases. Just general increases to everything year by year as the current workers get pay rises and add further to the costs. Its a never-ending cycle to survive. We will have higher costs for council rates, water rates, electricity, (it won't come down much) gas, insurances and the like and lots more. Up go the costs and down go the pensions. How can we afford to be $80 per week worse off in ten years time.
JUST VOTE THEM OUT and let them also know how we feel by signing this petition.
Where is it Kaye?
MICK
26th Jul 2014
5:31pm
This government does not care and is after the easy money. It can't take it from the big end of town because this is where their election funding comes from. So it takes it from average Australians with the spiel that you are doing it for thenation. Whilst the latter is a wonderful sentiment one needs to remember that the divide between rich and poor has been widening for several decades and Abbott is transferrring more wealth to the poor in this budget. If not then he should remove the 1.5% tax cut for the rich, something that is not going to happen.
Australians fail to u nderstand that the rich are now only paying 28.5% on company profits (they all have 'companies' to launder their money through) whilst average Australians are on a much higher rate. It is wrong.
guyra2
24th Jul 2014
10:33am
Foreign aid and the support and control of asylum seekers is costing our country a large percentage of money that could support the pensioners and those among us that need it most....I am by no means am against helping other countries after national disasters.....but
to aid those that just want to relocate...and many do regardless of denials....because
money given to relocate and reestablish themselves in this depleted country of ours
will soon only be a dream to many of us.....Unless of course Hockey or Abbot can devise
a way to tax our dream time???
particolor
24th Jul 2014
12:08pm
They are working on that now Guyra2..
particolor
24th Jul 2014
12:09pm
We will leave no Stone Untaxed !!
guyra2
24th Jul 2014
12:25pm
Signing a partition for our rights is a terrific idea.....as long as we unify and that includes those that utilize the "I'm Alright Jack" attitude......together the "GREY ARMY" is a formidable force.........certainly strong enough to gain the full attention of those we voted for
under the presumption they were elected to help us as well as themselves
particolor
25th Jul 2014
1:57pm
And Armed to the Teeth with Biro's they came !!
Blossom
24th Jul 2014
1:51pm
Pensions don't keep up with CPI or with the average wage rises in many cases if you go by the average wage quoted. I wish I had been paid that in wages. They must take into account wages of Managers, CEOs etc. MPs should get a set figure, not %. A special tribunal allegedly sets their wage increases - interesting !!!
MICK
26th Jul 2014
5:33pm
Did Labor increase the pension in its last term? I have to say that I am not sure but I seem to remember that this was the case. Ok commmunity help me out.
Blossom
24th Jul 2014
2:00pm
There are some specialists that charge a much higher fee for an initial consultation and later ones. However once your referal runs out and you have to get a new one, some are cheeky enough to charge an initial consult on the new follow-up referral
Blossom
24th Jul 2014
2:02pm
How many people could honestly say they are fit enough to work to the age of 70 ???
I know of a few who have and have passed away within 12 months of doing so.
Sick of BS
24th Jul 2014
2:40pm
The pollies will look after themselfs and there mates and screw the rest.
Australians voted for then.
particolor
25th Jul 2014
1:49pm
Did You !!
gubsmum
24th Jul 2014
2:40pm
agreed essenar, you have said it all.
terrib
24th Jul 2014
3:57pm
I am truly disgusted that the government representing the people in Australia can say to the elders that you are going to have to give up increases to your pension over the coming years because we want to put the country in the black instead of the red. It was not out fault the previous government chose to do what they did whilst in power. We had no say in it so why punish us? I do not wish to live the rest of my years in poverty thank you, it is hard enough now to live on the pension when you don't have any assets whatsoever. No home, no super, no savings as I bought up my children with no super available & on my own. What I say to the government is why do you need a huge million dollar payout when you retire from politics in spite of being able to get another high paying job outside of politics? Why do you need a comm car when not partaking in government duties? Why do you need business class airfares for the rest of your life when not performing government duties? Why do you need personal assistants & staff & an office when not engaging in political duties? I could go on but you know what you get. Is that fair when you are expecting us to live on a shoestring? Is It?
scorps
24th Jul 2014
4:23pm
hear hear
MICK
25th Jul 2014
10:18pm
You are making th emistake of believing the NEXT LIE. This is about the transfer of wealth to the rich. The debt is not going to be paid off but just continue to increase. The current government will just go on vlaming the previous government which left a small budget whilst it runs up huge bills on the ticker. Do not believe anything this bunch of disreputable liars tells you.
Supernan
24th Jul 2014
4:23pm
Very happy to sign a petition against all the Pension changes. Have already made a Senate submission. And sign a petition about Medicare Charges.
Richard
24th Jul 2014
6:05pm
I am an ex serviceman who has been drawing a CPI indexed pension for over 30 years even though originally it was tied to current serviceman's wage. The government changed it a few years after I started the pension and over the years the difference is many hundreds of dollars per year with total losses of many many thousands of dollars. Not to mention of course that the gap is ever increasing every year.
I request everyone to ask their politicians how their very generous pensions are indexed, noting that they are not tied to a retirement age of 70. They will receive a pension for life after only one reelection.
Hypocrites and benders of the truth almost all of them when it comes to feathering their own retirement nest eggs.
And Mr Hockey and the PM say that even politicians are going to have to help pay for the
e economy's rebuilding. Ha! what a joke - one only delay of automatic wage increase next year.
Everyone I know would sign this petition, And I'll personally door knock everyone in our town.
Have a look at this (pre budget) independent comment.
http://inside.org.au/two-indexes-two-very-different-prospects-for-pensions
Frank
24th Jul 2014
8:14pm
So what you're saying is that wages have been increasing faster than CPI.
This is something which needs to be looked at.
MICK
25th Jul 2014
10:15pm
Accoeding to many experts in this area Frank that is exactly what has been happening. What, Tony has not told you?
GrandmaKathleen22
24th Jul 2014
8:40pm
People are choosing not to have private health cover and pay the levy which is a fraction of the amount for private cover. Maybe the high income earners need to be paying a bigger levy as they are using the public hospitals and causing long waiting lists which should be reserved for those who cannot afford to pay. Means test the public hospitals! Pensioners are paying private cover which will become unaffordable if LNP Canberra has its way. Hockey has said he will go in the back door to get his money and people will not be told. An example of this is the reduction in the rebate snuck through with private health cover rise on 1st April.
Maggie
24th Jul 2014
10:10pm
With all the comments I read posted here about the pension cuts and what so & so's this Govt is I wonder how they ever got elected!!??!! Remember the old saying? "People get the Govt they deserve??" I
Well I certainly didn't vote them in and I am appalled by the unchristian attitude of Abbot &Hockey and their ilk. But then again Labor did some fairly nasty and unworthy things also. Do we need another Party or would it just be More of the same?? Maggie
MICK
25th Jul 2014
10:14pm
They were elected with a media propaganda campaign which attacked one side of politics on mostly manufactured crises and accusations which were not well defended and for the most part ignored by the media which had decided who was going to govern the country. Even the GetUp add which was paid advertising was vetoed by the bif commercial stations. It was a betrayal...and people did not read between the lines. Taken hook, line and sinker. End of story.
WOG
24th Jul 2014
11:47pm
Having "read" through the 290 odd comments so far on the subject of Pension indexation, I am sadly driven to comment that it would seem the majority of our great country's seniors are a but a bunch of spoilt, selfish and greedy whingers.

As was confirmed in one of the comments, some 80% of seniors own their own home, drive about in new $60,000+ petrol guzzling 4WD and hitch on their$100,000+ caravans to do their ritual Grey Nomad tour of Australia, all the while stealing toilet paper from caravan park ablution blocks.

Have any of you "poor" Aussies seen real poverty?!
MICK
25th Jul 2014
10:09pm
WOG: There are many shades of grey in the world. Whilst not all retirees are doing it tough the ones you describe normally do not draw a pension. Those who do draw a pension have normally paid off all debt and live tight so that they can have a (very) few of the small luxuries...like a trip away once a year.
I wish I could relate to the picture you have painted above and it is not the norm. More like wishful thinking mate.
GrandmaKathleen22
25th Jul 2014
1:18am
Dear WOG, I do not own a $60000 car or own a caravan. You cannot generalise like that. It is similar to comments by Hockey about the beer and cigs! Yes, people should use up their own resources before applying for the pension. Everything should be means tested. But do not lump every oldie into your nasty basket. There are many unfortunate people in every age bracket through no fault of their own and being judgmental on people and making them feel even worse is totally unacceptable in a country like ours. Not everyone is driving around the country stealing toilet paper. Ridiculous!
guyra2
25th Jul 2014
7:47am
I live in a relocatable village,,and used all of the resources my wife and I owned to purchase here.....this village has over 230 homes Many couples and quite a few on their own
so many of them need frequent visits to medical apps and consequentally need those apparently soon to be over expensive meds Sincerely desire to be driving a $60.000 vehicle
but a 12 yr old camry wouldn't be worth a fraction of that if it had gold hubcaps
your evaluation of the majority??? and the Luxurious retirement comes from advertisments
and not from reality We do ok but only through careful budgeting not by desire but by
necessity..... Whingers I think not Grey Army have your say Its the way
Mar
25th Jul 2014
10:38am
WOG. You may be talking about self funded wealthy retirees, certainly not about the average Aussie Pensioner. You obviously have no idea how the other half survive.
MICK
26th Jul 2014
5:34pm
He sounds a bit sus but no accounting for beliefs I guess. Not accurate though.
Showgirl
25th Jul 2014
10:45am
I can't believe they wish to hit the old, the kids and the disabled and still give politicians pay rises, and allow the people who abuse the system to get away with it. Would happily sign a petition if you get one going on this site. Fat complacent idiots who behave like children in parliament and have no respect for themselves or their responsibilities to Australia.
MICK
26th Jul 2014
5:38pm
Sad isn't it. But that is what the ballot box is there for.
Make a statement. Vote for an Independent and have half a chance of not putting in a crook. As I keep repeating THAT is the way to change a bad situation. There's an old saying that 'if it ain't working then don't keep doing the same thing'. I mean politics is not like supporting a football side. It is more like doing business where if you keep making the same mistake you go broke. Food for thought.
Mez
25th Jul 2014
11:51am
I have read the first 10 comments and I agree with them and would sign a petition as I occasionally do with change .org ones that I receive in my email. They are very successful and I would urge everyone to do so to improve the age pension increases and entitlements.
pauly
25th Jul 2014
1:35pm
Age pensions should not be indexed by CPI but should remain linked to average wage increases.I support every effort to preserve current pension indexation arrangements, and pegging all MPs 'entitlements' to CPI ad infinitum.
We have worked all our lives to become second and soon to be, third class citizens; we must stop this before it starts! Where do I sign the petition? the sooner the better.
Gypsyfeet
25th Jul 2014
11:58pm
Do I want to sign, you bet ya. It's pensioners with Chronic illnesses that need multiple medications, special dietry needs & supplements that will suffer most. My condition requires 6 specialists,Plus f/nightly GP visits, none of which bulk bill anymore & they want money up-front, most won't let you just pay the gap anymore. 13 medications & 8 supplements plus dietry needs. I am just trying to stay alive & have been for last 28 years. They are literally going to kill people. The PBS safety net doesn't help when you have to buy 6-7 scripts per f/n plus other needs. For me to spend over $100 in the chemist is a routine thing. I am just trying to exist, it's no life, it's barely existing.
Gypsyfeet
26th Jul 2014
12:12am
I am sick to death of being made to feel guilty because I'm an aged pensioner. The greater number of us migrated to this country 40-50 years ago, leaving our homeland & relatives. from a country with good social service provisions, on the promise they would very soon be in place here in Oz. 50 years on & no politician has had the balls to instigate a viable social security system - it may lose them votes (in the short term). The medicare levy was inadiquate & pathetic. You don't have to be a mathmatichian to figure the percentage of people working & paying tax, cannot keep those who are too young, old or disabled to work. Oh the promises, promises to get us here & build this country, now we are made to feel guilty for being here, for even being alive. If I come across Joe Hockey sucking on a cigar, it will take a Proctologist to remove it!
Fready
26th Jul 2014
12:05pm
There is a lot of rubbish spoken about pensioners all with the intention of giving the impression that all pensioners are on the verge of poverty. However, today a couple can have a $3 million house and $1 million in assets and still get a part pension and all the associated concessions. The Financial Review this week reported that about 50% of all retirees are pulling their super as a lump sum and spending it in order to qualify for the pension. Whilst this is legal I question the morality. People say super wasn't available when I was working, but I started paying into super in 1958 so it's been around for at least 56 years. Others say "I paid tax all my life so I'm entitled to a pension", but if you include the concessions and payments from Government nearly 50% of people of tax paying age effectively pay no tax.
MICK
26th Jul 2014
5:46pm
My understanding of lump sums is that you can pull out $150 000 tax free and then get hit with high taxes. Is that right?
what you miss Fready is that most retirees do not have a heap of money and live from week to week. Those who do have saved for the day or have been higher income earners who have had special rules which only they can utilise so that they could effectively avoid the real tax rate applicable to average citizens.
There certainly is no one size fits all in this debate but those whopull th estrings seem to be of the opinion that their needs should always be catered for and that average citizens should pay. There is something very wrong with this sort of belief.
GrandmaKathleen22
26th Jul 2014
1:55pm
Fready, I agree with you that people should use up money and resources except their home they live in unless it is worth millions before they get the pension. There have been many loopholes. However, women stayed home in the fifties and sixties and even seventies and eighties with big families and they have no super or savings. Perhaps there needs to be some separation between the haves and have nots with the pension. We are talking about the have nots here. People who have no flash home, or car, or caravan, or money for cigs and grog and there are many of them. We raised a big family, educated them, went without basics for ourselves to provide for them but managed at the end of the day to possess a modest home partly paid for by my husband's superannuation. We have a seven year old small car that we use sparingly. We owe no money but have next to zero savings some of which comes from our pension to cover unexpected things like a fridge as ours is old. We are managing on the pension but I have multiple chronic and difficult diseases which cost a fair bit and the notion of a copayment or reduction in pension is scary! My cousin and her husband pay rent and the husband has multiple diseases. They pay off stuff like a fridge and borrow from Centrelink. So, you have three types of pensioners, namely the well to do, people like us, and people like my cousin. We cannot penalise the latter two groups to get at the first one. Agreed?
MICK
26th Jul 2014
5:52pm
A balanced and fair view.
Whilst I personally have worked very hard for very long and gone without most things which Australians take for granted I now find myself in a place where I may only get a $1 pension. Whilst I would love a freeby I do not care and am happy not to be a burden on taxpayers. But it makes my blood boil when Yony Abbott and his deadbeat front bench think that retirees who often lack the health and/or spirit to fight are fair game. If this government want s to talk the rhetoric of "heavy lifting" and "age of entitlement" it perhaps needs to begin with itself and those who are so advantaged by the current system: the rich. And when this government leads BY EXAMPLE I will be the first to fall in and say so should the rest of us. Until that time we all need to recognise the lies and deceit for what they are: a con to enrich the top end of town AGAIN and take from those who only want a fair go. You won't get it from this government!!
Fready
26th Jul 2014
7:12pm
To Mick I say no you are not limited in the amount you can pull out of super. Once you are in pension phase you can pull it all out if you wish. If you can organise a pension of even $1 per week you will qualify for the many concessions that pensioners get.
To Mick and GrandmaKathleen22 the question that must be asked is why the pensioners who are near the poverty line didn't put some money away for their retirement when they were working.?? Having said that, there is no incentive to save, as in retirement many services are means tested, meaning that if you have gone without to save, you will be penalised in retirement. Where I live a volunteer organisation charges me $40 per hour to clean my high windows whilst a pensioner is charged $10 per hour.
MICK
27th Jul 2014
3:19pm
Thanks Fready. I had a look and you are right.
WOG
26th Jul 2014
8:14pm
Recurring statements in the hundreds of comments on this subject thus far, include "I worked hard all my life", "Even though I own my home, I have no debts (but my car is seven years old and I am only to save a little from my pension and I need a new fridge) I am not rich - THEY are" leads one to question our impoverished, salt of the earth, dinky di Aussie seniors' perception of poverty.

Incidentally, why is the house a sacra-saint possession, not to be cashed in in order to provide a yearly overseas trip, which one correspondent stated as a necessary little luxury!

What a bunch of bleeding hearts!
MICK
27th Jul 2014
3:29pm
You show so much sympathy WOG boy.......... Your lack of any empathy makes a statement about you. Sad. Really.
Whilst there is poverty and then poverty Australians feel they they have an entitlement because they have paid taxes all their lives whilst governments of both persuasion have not only paid themselves more than what is fair but also wasted the national wealth, and then turn around and attack those who are least able to defend themselves: pensioners.
You might call pensioners "whingers" but this is a cheap shot which does not consider the reprehensible behaviour of governments nor the manner in which they address problems of THEIR MAKING.
The voting public may be too dumb to see that it is being conned but that does not mean that those who always do nicely should not pay whilst the weakest amongst us, who incidentally are also the poorest, should be attacked to pay for the sins of our politicians.
bookwyrm
26th Jul 2014
8:26pm
This change also affects those on the DSP.
Aussiefrog
26th Jul 2014
10:05pm
So! Kaye Fallick, where is the link for the petition?
GrandmaKathleen22
26th Jul 2014
10:32pm
WOG, people are not bleeding hearts. The word 'fridge' is mentioned because it is a necessity and many have to save up for this or borrow from Centrelink when they are already paying rent. Cars have been mentioned because people have been accused of driving $60000 cars that tow caravans. We are not in a third world country and people should have access to medicines and health as a right not a privilege. Stop judging and condemning people. What is your story? Australia is not a place where people should have to live on the streets or go without food or medicines. We are condemning this Abbott and Hockey style of government that attacks the lower end of society whilst enabling the super wealthy banks and companies and even a few individuals. I know someone clearing $6000 per week and I do not begrudge it to them because they pay nearly $200000 per year in tax which helps support the poorer people. It is the top end that pay no tax. Pick on them!
MICK
27th Jul 2014
3:33pm
Anyone on that sort of money normally has a better accountant and rarely pays that much tax. There are so many ways to avoid the real tax system and this person needs to find a new accountant.
I only wish all rich folk paid this much tax. You wouldn't be seeing Abbott Inc attacking the poor if that were the case.
Not Senile Yet!
27th Jul 2014
1:20am
All Deeming Rules should done away with!
The Aussie Home has and should always be excluded from any Calculations/Qualifications for a pension!
People should be allowed a modest reserve of savings when on a pension....for emergency replacement of household necessities...... To expect someone to not do so on a meagre pension is stupidity!
Al restrictions as far as working Part- time (Less than 20hrs per week) should be removed immediately to allow those who want to do so......not to be penalised for it! Just tax their income at 1/2 the normal rate!......without reducing their pension!
The pension should remain attached to the wage increases and not CPI because it does not keep up with inflation of the price of services and food as it is.....plus the Government is already taking it's swipe with the GST!!!!
THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS INDEXING WITH THE CPI IS THE POLITICIANS PAY......they seem to be able to get a raise well above both CPI & Wage Increases COMBINED!!!
The 50 to 65 Baby Boomers do not have large Super Accounts....most have less than 100,000......more than 1/2 have less than 50,000! And NO! They cannot access them before 65 unless they are Terminally ill or Permanently Disabled and unable to work...and even then they have to be on unemployment for 6 Months to qualify! By that time most are bankrupt or have to sell their houses and cars......because the dole is not enough.....to repay loans or mortgages!!! Hardship applicants have limitations on the amount they can receive as well!!!
The Previous Governments have altered the Super Rules every time they have come into power.....but no such rules apply to THEIR SUPER!!!!!
Vote all the Puppets of the Party Machines OUT of Parliament....put in the Independants.....who might just make them apply all their stupid rules on Super to their own Super Entitlements before they approve more!!!!!
Would like someone who has Wealth but likes to return it to the population via mentoring/education to finance a legal challenge against the Government for DISOBEYING it's own Laws about Discrimination between Married Pensioners and Single Pensioners as well as the Current Proposed Budget Cuts as they BOTH do not ADHERE to the AGE DISCRIMINATION OR ANTI-DISCRIMINATION ACTS!!!
They should be declared unlawful proposals as they are Direct Discrimination against a select group of Citizens/Taxpayers!!!!
MICK
27th Jul 2014
3:48pm
It ain't a perfect world but if you want REAL GOVERNMENT rather than the unaccountable circu we have had for years then the ONLY way to get this is to VOTE FOR A GOOD INDEPENDENT....and I don't mean Clive Palmer whose true colours and allegiance are yet to be revealed.
By voting out both sides of politics you send a clear and unmistakable message. Both sides are scared to death that voters may do this, and rightly so. It just takes courage of conviction and I wonder if Australians have this quality these days. what normally happens is that its a bit like supporting the local football club rather than ending behaviour which would be considered criminal in business or at worst would end up with mass sackings.
Voting for Independents will achieve the purpose of re-eastablishing proper government. The question is will AUstralians have the backbone to take the medicine?
Sick of BS
28th Jul 2014
11:56am
You can always vote informal and write what you think on the ballot papers.
WOG
27th Jul 2014
9:54am
OMG! What a fragile lot we are, so much whinging, so many fairy tales, pick on us indeed!

As to a previous comment "The greater number of us migrated to this country 40-50 years ago, leaving our homeland & relatives. from a country with good social service provisions, on the promise they would very soon be in place here in Oz.", what a load of bunkum! The greater majority, if not all, of immigrants came to this country to get away from war, genocide, poverty and denial of freedom, not on the promise of a gold-plated social security service which barely existed anywhere after the second world war.

True some European countries now do have superior social services, particularly in the medical field. However, one should perhaps look at the Australian medical profession who, in order to keep its numbers low for its own financial benefit has raised the bar to entry to medical degrees so high that one literally needs to be a genius to study to become a GP.
MICK
27th Jul 2014
3:37pm
I'm glad you acknowledge that Australia is not the top of the pack when it comes to retirement benefits. I am surprised though that you have not included third world countries in your attempt to demonise pensioners. Apples with apples. We are not that great.
The other thing you conveniently omit to mention is that the income of AUstralians has changed. In the past it may have been a poorer country but it was also a fairer one eith the gap between rich and poor not the chasm it now is. Funny how that does not merit a mention WOG boy.
harold
27th Jul 2014
10:27am
Will the salaries of politicians also be tied to CPI from 2017?

If Australia changed the constitution so that State/Territory Governments were smaller, or even non existent we'd be a far wealthier country.
MICK
27th Jul 2014
11:21am
The Tooth Fairy will agree with that one.
Kato
27th Jul 2014
12:55pm
Lisa Owen began by asking him how much trouble the Australian economy was in given his drastic measures in the recent Budget.

Joe Hockey: The Australian economy is not in trouble. We’ve had 23 years of consecutive economic growth. We want another 23 years of economic growth, and as a result, the reforms you undertake today will build the growth tomorrow. So we need to undertake these reforms


Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Interview-Joe-Hockey/tabid/1348/articleID/354234/Default.aspx#ixzz38dLvSp61
MICK
27th Jul 2014
3:38pm
The pre election spiel was the opposite. Hockey claimed that we were in trouble. The next lie. One of many........... and more to come.
GrandmaKathleen22
27th Jul 2014
4:14pm
WOG sounds like one of the trolls who follow these threads to demonise and destroy constructive comments. Tell us your story WOG and why you are on here. Are you an older Australian? Are you a pensioner? Why do you attack and disseminate?
Mike
28th Jul 2014
12:26pm
Yes I would like a petition and yes I will sign it ! Living on Age Pension and having to pay rent is very though. I can have an extra income but half of it will be deducted from the pension payment. There are differences, when assessing the rights to the Age Pension, for people owing their own home and for people who don't. This rule should also apply to allowed income and help those who are tenants to find enough money to live on, and not to have to pay 50 cents per dollar from an income.
BigVal
28th Jul 2014
3:33pm
John Howard linked age pension to the male average wage and this gave people a bit of a chance to keep up with rise in costs. But still behind always. Labor changed it in 2009 to a mixmash but higher etc Bbut did take down the married age pension from 167% of the single rate to 150% meaning in reality that a married couple then only got 1 single pension and a 1/2 pension. Miserable people Labor these days as this is a step backwards. Women are no longer leaving when married and never working again - most today over 65 have worked most of their more than those when pensions started in 1909 because since WW2 women did men's jobs as they were away fighting and never went back fully to stay at home except for a period from first to last child into school then part time working usually anyway. Hope this will not go ahead as it will take pensions down by $100 a week on modelling and earlier than some say too.

No cant go ahead. We will have to get off our apathetic backsides and start to do what these incomers do - they get nasty and the government gives in or blackmail them mass self harm of some sort, like march in the streets naked and frighten them all, with our older bodies in all their glory. Put them off sex for life ha ha. Whatever it takes ........
Dave
29th Jul 2014
12:51pm
I would like to strongly oppose any changes to the current system of improving age pension.
In my working life I paid my taxes & for my superannuation . There was no company contribution at all. When I retired at 59 I had to return to work at 70 to make for a reasonable standard of living. Mr Hockey needs to take a very good look at himself after calling pensioners a liability. We paid our way & don't require his smart arse cements like that. I believe our treasurer has his head in the clouds .it was our generation that continued to build this country without handouts. Just leave what little the government gives us alone.
Dave nsw
Aussiefrog
29th Jul 2014
7:01pm
Kaye Fallick you published this article on the 23rd
You asked if we would sign a petition and asked for feedback
Many people commented and many asked about this petition!
I'm wondering if you are reading the comments and working on a petition?
scorps
4th Aug 2014
1:30pm
hear hear
Travellersjoy
4th Aug 2014
10:35am
The status quo with indexation and pensioner concessions on public transport, rates, pharmaceuticals and essential services should be maintained.

This scandalous assault on dependent and defenceless pensioners should be resisted at every level.

The Abbot government is shameless in its abuse of trust, abuse of decency and abuse of vulnerable citizens. Abbot doesn't need to punch walls any more. He has real live victims at his 'mercy' and no hesitation in sinking his boots in to people who are already on the ground.
fedup
4th Aug 2014
12:35pm
this is a disgrace, the pensioners have it tough already, they paid their taxes why should they suffer in their old age, Its ok for these morons politicians to make these changes they are not effected shame on you Mr Hockey bring on the petition
Not Senile Yet!
6th Aug 2014
3:02am
No I would not sign a Petition for the Removal of this deceitful lunacy!
However, I would sign a petition to have Mr Hockey removed from Parliament for not only lying in his election promises but also prosecuted for ignoring our Australian Legislation that makes it illegal to Discriminate or Discriminate by Age.
No wonder everyone ignore our Laws.....they only follow the bad example represented by our MP's!
viva
8th Aug 2014
8:19pm
This government is so wrong the way they are handling situations for the economy why not start with all past politicians and revoke all that money that taxpayers are still paying for their very very comfortable retirements years later and all their privileges, what other business does that for ex employees. This country is becoming too expensive to live in, I for one would be happy to sign a petition. I bet Abbot&Hockey won't be doing it hard on their pensions when the time comes. Feathering their own nests now.
beja
10th Sep 2014
1:29pm
Three percent of all income to consolidated revenue is supposed to be paid into Social Security to pay pensions. At Federation in 1908 it was 1%. After the war , in 1948 this was changed to 3%. Whitlam Took all the money from Social Security when he was Prime Minister. It has never been reverted.
Fready
15th Sep 2014
4:18pm
Pensioners in WA receive 50% off their council rates, dog licences, water rates and water use, fishing licences, vehicle registration (and stamp duty fees) and country train fares. In addition, they receive about 60% off bus, ferry and train fares (with most being free). Their driver’s licences are free. They get a discount on supply charges, account establishment, meter testing fees and some get an air conditioning subsidy and a caravan park subsidy from WA’s sole electricity supplier. They get a discount on mail redirection and a $200 home safety and security rebate. They get a pension supplement, a cost of living rebate, a discount on radiological services, a subsidy on home haemodialysis, a free or subsidised hearing device, subsidised dental, a subsidy on spectacles, a discount on line rental from Telstra, a discount on interstate rail and coach services, a 20% discount from the Rottnest Island Authority for off peak accommodation, a discount on National Parks entry and camping fees and entry to the museum, zoo and art gallery. In addition, some get a free return journey per year from the North West, a discount on ambulance services and a $500 fuel card, and some get a refund on their medical services after they reach the safety net figure and they all get their prescriptions for $5.60 each and one free rail journey to a regional centre per annum.
There are probably others that I don't know about.
A married couple can have a $3,000,000 house, assets of $265,000 and an income of $264 per fortnight and still receive a full pension. Those on a full pension don’t have to worry about the state of the economy as their income is assured by current tax payers. Not much to grizzle about eh. ??
DragonLady
16th Nov 2014
4:12pm
This is terrible news, we shall oppose in the coming State of Victoria election.


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