Budget hits the poorest hardest

Treasury documents show budget spending cuts would hit poorest households hardest.

The Federal Government has come under fire after Fairfax Media received documents under the freedom-of-information legislation, which show the Abbott government knew its 2014 budgets spending cuts would hit poorer households the hardest.

Fairfax Media is still seeking two further documents which are being withheld from the freedom-of-information request, a 56-page and 21-page document which are said to model the difference in disposable income between wealthier and poorer households.

''The Abbott government clearly shows what the welfare changes would mean, with 10 pages of material contained in the budget papers. This is significantly more than has been included in most previous budgets,'' said a spokeswoman for Treasurer Joe Hockey.

Shadow treasurer Chris Bowen said yesterday that the Treasurer should be ''acknowledging [the] Treasury figures show the fundamental unfairness of the budget,'' and ''These are Treasury figures. These aren't Sydney Morning Herald's figures, not the Labor Party's figures these are Treasury figures, which have been released under FOI.''

Find out more from the Sydney Morning Herald.

Opinion: Should we be surprised?

While we all knew what we were signing up for when we elected this Coalition Government, I’m not sure anybody was expecting the harsh reality which was Budget 2014.

The media and public seem to be shocked that this Coalition Government delivered a budget which has favoured the wealthy rather than the less well off, when one of its signature election promises was the Paid Parental Leave Scheme.

It became clear when this Coalition government took the hard-line on not admitting that it was introducing any new taxes, when in-fact it was implementing a few, that we would be in for a long four years of denial. Joe Hockey came out yesterday like a rampaging bull attacking Fairfax Media for releasing “deliberately misleading” information, but it’s hard to argue with Treasury figures which paint the picture in black and white.

Joe Hockey will have a hard time convincing the majority that his 2014 budget was fair for all the nation it seems with 94 per cent of 17,326 people who answered a poll on the Sydney Morning Herald website saying that Joe Hockey’s budget hit the poorest the hardest.

What do you think? Is Joe Hockey lying to the public about the impacts of his budget or does he really believe it is fair for the wealthiest and poorest households?





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    btony
    5th Aug 2014
    10:05am
    Really , what did anyone expect from these snakes in the grass?
    Joe, leaned for 6 yrs at uni and probably has never been a lifter, why would you even trust him with the biscuit tin?
    Waytoopoortobeme
    5th Aug 2014
    11:56am
    Yes that biscuit tin obviously got a workout!!
    And just as Joe rapidly shed the kilo's via gastric surgery, he has taken the same Invasive measures to his Budget. Given most of us have to Cut the Fat the hard way, thru sheer determination, diet & exercise, Joe does not appear to have any self control either for himself or his drastic budget that targets the vulnerable.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    12:03pm
    The Howard government failed to get its 'Work Choices' in so this is the back door. Work Choices was sold as a cure for an ailment invented by big business and the rich to subjegate the workforce and get an even greater amount of money into their own bank accounts. It failed.
    It comes as no surprise that the leaked information details who is under attack. I have been saying this since the Budget and now we are seeing the proof. The end game: keep the bottom end of society poor, pay it nothing and force it to beg for crumbs and feel grateful that they have a job. It is so despicable. I understand how the French Revolution came about as the behaviour of those who have so much is a case of history repeating itself.
    "We want an election" Tony.
    KSS
    5th Aug 2014
    12:35pm
    Waytoopoortobeme, why do you find it necessary to be so rude as to make personal comments about someone and put them on a public forum?

    Criticise the policy if you will, but leave the personal insults about a person's health issues out of it.
    pete@nakedhydroponics
    5th Aug 2014
    10:08am
    Does HE believe it's fair for all? Of course HE does. The real question is, does anyone else?
    I don't think the budget ever had anything to do with 'fairness'. This was all about favoring people "of Calibre", to use Abbott's expression. For the other 99%, tough luck.
    unicorn
    5th Aug 2014
    10:24am
    Joe Hockey would have a hard time convincing me of anything the idiot can only count when it comes to his wages, not that he should be getting them as it ios under false pretenses that he gets paid at all.
    LENYJAC
    5th Aug 2014
    11:22am
    HOW TRUE..
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    2:54pm
    Don't be 10 cents short though !! He will chuck a Tantrum in the House !!
    Kato
    5th Aug 2014
    3:28pm
    And A Timtam.
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    7:01pm
    If He Dunks it too long it will fall off in His Latte !! And that goes for the Tim Tam Too !!
    doggone
    5th Aug 2014
    10:29am
    no surprise because the liberals are all for the bigger end of town NOT the lower or even middle classes.

    it is in their dna to say "ugh the peasants"

    what does surprise me is all those who voted for this mob.

    your reward for voting for them?

    treated with disdain.
    retroy
    5th Aug 2014
    11:39am
    Simply because the other mob made such a mess of things and were taking this whole country down.
    At least this mob has stopped the decline, but at what cost ?
    The answer is a little way off.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    12:05pm
    Both post correct. SO VOTE FOR A GOOD INDEPENDENT AND MAKE THEM FIX UP THEIR PARTIES BEFORE YOU VOTE FOR THEM AGAIN. This is the only way out of the mess but are Australians up to the medicine as they treat political parties the same way as a football team. Get a new team!!
    heyyou
    5th Aug 2014
    2:29pm
    Present political parties are a canker in the side of democracy, they force the representatives of elected peoples to toe the party line, told what legislation to vote for regardless of personal preferences. This kind of undemocratic practice ensures that those who control the leadership run the Parliament, exercising control of the people.
    The only way to dismantle this grip on democracy is to vote for a worthwhile independent who will be directly responsible and available to their voters.
    It really is time for Australian voters to think, examine, question in-depth the policies of their representatives if we are to achieve honest representation.
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    9:30pm
    heyyou

    " vote for a worthwhile independent who will be directly responsible and available to their voters."
    And just how long do you think that your annointed one will remain "independent"?

    I am sure that they will remain independent up to the point where they need the backing of another "independent" to get through their particular wish.. At the point of the "quid pro quo" arrangement they cease to be "independent" as they are beholden to another member. Extrapolate this a bit further and what do you have?............Voila, a new party and we are back on the treadmill.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    9:42pm
    A lot longer than those who now gain your vote. Are you not aware that Abbott inc. lied to you during the election and that once the ink was dry you were hung out..for the same purpose?
    There are no guarantees in life other than deat and taxes, and there are no guarantees that an Independent will not double cross you. But your insurance is NOT voting a bastard in for a second term....thereby depriving a liar of their lifetime instant superannuation.
    As I have have said many times: don't get angry, get even. Use the ballot box how it was supposed to used rather than be a drone like most voters who treat political parties like their football team. That defies logic.
    dougie
    5th Aug 2014
    10:30am
    I do not know whether we as Seniors have been treated badly or not. There seems to be no difference in my income as a pensioner and I do not see too much difference in our outgoings. Who knows?
    What I do know is that after many years as a unionist cum labor supporter after the past years of Labor government I certainly could not support that party at that time. Who will I support next election, I do not know only time and outcomes will answer that.
    At this stage there are items which are in the budget which I feel will enhance our situation and others that may be not so good or not good at all. Only the next few years will tell.
    I will let time not futile name calling etc decide for me.
    Polly Esther
    5th Aug 2014
    11:57am
    Well said Dougie.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    12:07pm
    Not yet. But if Abbott and Hockey get this budget and succesive budgets through there will be. Remember Hockey's parting words: "We're not finished yet".
    Good luck if you think that this government is not after people on pensions. They are.
    heyyou
    5th Aug 2014
    2:41pm
    dougie, THFD, what a used car salesman's delight, don't worry about the condition look at the slick paint job, you can trust me, I wont let you down, voted the best yard in Australia, purchase with confidence.
    Sound familiar ?
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    4:19pm
    dougie, you are a wise man. The name calling only influences those who have low IQs.
    They feel clever by repeating the name calling but they would not have a clue. I really hope that's not the way they discuss issues face to face?
    Good on you dougie . You too The flying doctor!
    Anonymous
    6th Aug 2014
    12:16pm
    Excellent summing up Dougie. I too am swinging voter these days once supported Labor when it supported working people, battlers and pensioners who are the back bone of any country and pay the largest part of the income and other taxes collected and whom without, no company can make its profits or cover its overheads.
    Labor haunt been true to its origins since Bob Hawke first took donations for th eparty's war chest from Big Business in the 1980's and brought in The Accord which was designed to make higher profits, and the left wing words of change started to change the way we all worked, like productivity, it was used to make workers work harder for less rewards and the employer have less workers to pay but reap more profits. Basically, it kept workers wages down right up until Howard in 1996, meanwhile, the top end of town, company execs and middle management underwent a 60% pay increase as reported by the ACCC in mi 1990's around 94 or 95.
    So those rusted on followers here who keep it on footy team level Labor v Liberals etc are losing out - should look at what you get in your pockets and how far and quitable it is overall. In other words follow the money trail because if you do, and question evry statement on TV by those commentating or interviewers who never ask the one question do they, "Who pays your wages" but you can work it out and far too often it is taken as 100% for the public good meaning for all of us, when in reality whatever is being stated over and over again until we accept it as gospel is far too often meaning more money in the pockets of those already having more than enough to spend in one lifetime and straight out of those pockets who can least afford it. The left are in both parties in Parliament. Turnbull Hockey and others are as left wing as Shorten Plebesek and others in Labor or Milne, SBY etc in Greens on much that affects our standard of living. So personal attacks on anyone only slows down th eprocess of getting a better fairer deal for all from the bottom up and not from the top down as currently the way things stand. Not had a decent tax revue in incomes since Howard in 1970's and a bit of a tweak he did when late Kerry Packer paid $10 a year for 3 years legally Senate enquiry found.
    None of them wh are not taxed at source, PAYE, pay their fair share because of the loop holes, trusts, off shore accounts, personally, or company wise, profit shifting which G20 is supposed to discuss and fix as all countries are missing out by this as most part of multinational groups of investing in other countries and by shifting goods with no profit ie invoicing within the companies groups avoid tax in all countries.
    Seniors are old enough t know better, when we fight each other we allow them to win. Governments use tactics like this to win called divide and rule and it works with SFR against pensioners and then single pensioners being encouraged to think married are better off. Have to be a bit thick to do so as not. And worse since Labor cut the married rate down from 167% of the single pension to be paid to a couplein 2009 and not one Labor supported on this site noticed did they? Now it is 150% of the single rate and for those whos maths are not that interesting, it means a couple are being paid 1 single pension and 1 half pension. See proof Labor is not supporting more than they have to, paying lip service to pensioners who mainly have been true believers and kept them in office over the years.
    Labor takes as much money from top end of town as Liberals.
    Dottie
    6th Aug 2014
    4:58pm
    Somebody in this whole sorry story who sees it as it is, very good to see that.
    Thank you!
    particolor
    6th Aug 2014
    8:15pm
    I Agree with every word of it Val !! All they think of now is how much food left in that Trough ..OINK OINK SQUEEEEL !!
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    9:45pm
    Frank: Back from a cabinet meeting? More of the same rhetoric. Little discussion or reasoning though. What else is new.
    Please mount an argument based on facts, not just the slogans you have been asked to repeat.
    Dottie
    7th Aug 2014
    9:15am
    My comment was for Dougie, not Val.
    MITZY
    7th Aug 2014
    2:31pm
    dougie: of course you are no better or worse off yet as far as your pension payment is concerned as it hasn't happened. The budget regarding pensions doesn't take effect until 2017 if it passes the Senate. However, I don't see any difference in prices in the supermarkets considering we have no carbon tax now? Every single discounted price on the "big two's" specials is amply taken back by the higher prices in other items (especially fruit and vegetables). If you are reliant on living wholly on the aged pension based on CPI after 2017, you will certainly soon feel the difference in this backward step as all other prices of goods and commodities keep ramping onwards and upwards and you are possibly paying the Medicare co-payments too.
    Pensions contribute 6.9% of GDP presently and are expected to be exactly the same, i.e. 6.9% of GDP in 2050 due to the increased age to 70 before eligibility as well as less pensioners needing a full age pension due to their self-funding and all this in an economy presently in the trillions. There is a lot of "scare tactics" floating around all over the place and so many people keep getting sucked in to believing the rhetoric. The people believe what they are fed until all of a sudden the broken promises keep coming one after the other. Is it ever any different?
    Hobbit
    5th Aug 2014
    10:35am
    The deficit needs to be addressed but, the best way is to improved the economy and therefore improve government revenues. I don't see any positive actions from this government just slash costs (but not politicians expenses or perks). Let's have a double dissolution and get rid of these idiots.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    1:42pm
    This budget is about the transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich, nothing else. There is no budget emergency because this was an election weapon which has now lost any real importance. If there were a budget emergency then this government would not have removed the debt ceiling, would not have advocated a stupid Paid Parental Leave Scheme (a vote buyer) or given the rich a 1.5% tax cut. So see it for what it is.
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    4:22pm
    The transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich? Are you serious mick?
    Try telling that to high income earners who will be paying extra tax in the order of $6,000 plus!
    On another note welcome back. How was Tasmania?
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    9:45pm
    Biblo47

    A couple of points re your post if I may!

    Just how do you suggest that we improve the economy in isolation and not cut costs?

    Your reference to politicians salaries and benefits is a typical small minded comment, repeated on these pages ad nauseum, and takes no account of just what the quantum of those represents in the National Accounts. Believe me, there would be a lot of zeroes in front of the figure as expressed as a percentage of Government expenditure.

    Finally, be careful of what you wish for in hoping for a double dissolution election. I too, wouldn't mind seeing an election to almost certainly rid us of some of the whackos that were elected last time. The memory and obvious consequences of ill informed opinions are out there for all to see (at least from those who want to see) and I think we would wind up with a very different legislature.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    9:52pm
    Frank: Much better. At least you offer a discussion. I'll bite mate.
    You are correct that high income earners are paying a bit of extra tax. But that is FOR 2 YEARS whilst the rest of society have their tax increases forever. You also did not mention that the 2% tax was on incomes over $180 000. Also the $6000 extra tax you claimed these people would pay would mean that they earned $300 000 pa. My heart bleeds........
    I also noticed that you did not mention that at a time when average Australians were getting taxed the rich got a 1.5% Company Tax rate CUT. Funny that.
    As usual Frank you rants are straight from Liberal HQ. Bad luck mate. People are on to you.
    Adrianus
    7th Aug 2014
    7:55am
    mick, what do companies do with profit? I have never heard of a business which has a mission to decline it's turnover and make less profit.
    MITZY
    7th Aug 2014
    2:40pm
    Frank: Accountants and Solicitors run their businesses through their private companies etc. The work they perform for their daily bread is what they call WORK IN PROGRESS. And, do they work their W.I.P. and billing clients to a fine art.
    Big business has its ways of arranging tax liabilities in many ways too, defer, defer, defer. The only ones who pay up front and their fair share of what they earn are the PAYE
    Jen
    7th Aug 2014
    3:41pm
    Biblo47, you are spot on. This budget is all about cuts and removal of services. Therefore it is a recessionary budget and small business is already feeling the pinch. This will only get worse. There was nothing in the budget to grow jobs, no investment in health or education, just cut backs. How are we to grow as a nation under this bunch of dopes?
    Jurassicgeek
    5th Aug 2014
    10:50am
    Well I did not vote for them so dont use the word "we" when you say tey were elected.They were not elected to destroy the living standards of the older australians, who worked hard all their lives to be treated like shit for their efforts.
    if it wasnt for a few good people in the senate we would all be suffering much more by now.
    There are a number of ways to bring back the deficit without affecting a single australian!...he just doesnt have the balls to do it.( the other mob prolly wouldnt either). They are all wanting to keep their lerks and perks as long as they can and in the process bleed this great country dry.

    No! it's not fair but dont let fairness get in the way of huge payrises, golden handshakes,and all the perks .....
    Dottie
    5th Aug 2014
    2:56pm
    It seems to me that we are all the same then. None will end the so called perks! Some small some big! But one thing should be clear for everyone. We should help business big or small. Because they are the ones that provide us with work. We complain about how much profit they make. But if they don't make that and then go broke you should hear those same people complain. Life is not simple and ruling a country is the same of worse. The thing I would like to see change in this Country is that, politicians, whichever side they are should all do their best in ruling this country and make it better! But the only thing they do is say no to the ruling party, calling each other names, en behaving like spoiled brats. If they would sit round the table and discuss things what's best instead what they are doing for years what they are doing now, maybe this Country could indeed be the lucky country!
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    3:14pm
    And dottie the workers are the ones who help them create their riches so they should be looked after.
    buby
    6th Aug 2014
    9:40am
    i'LL VOTE FOR Jurassicgeek+dottie and Wstation, when are we going to start our own party. I heard that one has been started but thats about it,and not much else!
    any updates on this would be appreciated
    BElle
    5th Aug 2014
    10:54am
    This budget has been deliberately aimed at the poor and less fortunate.
    Reasoning of this Liberal government is that the less well off and those in difficult financial situations, for whatever reason, have only themselves to blame and not the circumstances that they find themselves in.
    The fact that this is patently not true is an "inconvenient truth" and does not fit their agenda.
    Much more could be written on this but most of it has already been said and observed and this government refuses to acknowledge its total lack of empathy with those less fortunate than themselves.
    Any democratic government is meant to represent the "will of the people" - not rule in a draconian manner.
    tia-maria
    5th Aug 2014
    11:04am
    BELLe, well your right the Liberal government is going to hit hard against the poor and less fortunate,and with his mate Joe Hockey our lives for the retired pensioners will be the hardest hit.
    tia-maria
    5th Aug 2014
    11:07am
    Joe Hockey is a very arrogant Politician and PM Abbott they dont give a damm in hell how they will effect the retired pensioners..........but....... the young families will always be looked after.......by the taxpayers of Australia with out a second thought........pensioners have done so well with their budget but gee its tougher these days
    tia-maria
    5th Aug 2014
    11:08am
    I mean budgeting
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    11:19am
    mean budgeting. everyone is hit hard, not just pensioners over 65. Anyway, we deserve what we get for putting the unions in government for 2 terms.
    mcc200
    5th Aug 2014
    12:01pm
    As a retired pensioner I do not see any adverse effect in the budget that will have any impact on my lifestyle.
    And remember something had to be done after the mess left by the previous government
    tia-maria
    5th Aug 2014
    12:20pm
    mcc200........Another Liberal voter ??and the the Liberal never makes mistakes???take some flack??just take a good look at what going on now???? and futher stop pushing the blame of Labor........( the Liberal party has sold off so much value properties to be in the black
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    12:29pm
    mcc200 reminds me of the old adage "I'm all right jack" the same attitude as the a lot off the affluent.

    Just remember that Hockey said "I'm not finished yet" Let hope that he is finished and out on his bum. Mind you I also would not like another incompetent party in place either.
    tia-maria
    5th Aug 2014
    12:58pm
    Wstation, Yes Joe Hockey is definately not finished???????????? Just a few months ago he kicked the pensioners out of their units over looking Sydney Harbour.....and he did not care about the elderly residents who been living their for many years?????....NO...........JOE HOCKEY.........only saw the Big Dollars Signs and what he could do with the cash flows from the sale??..keep an eye out as we should know soon what it will be,
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    1:50pm
    mcc200: Perhaps you are well off. Good for you if you have had good luck in your life. But what you fail to see is that this government whose budget attacking the poor end of society has so far been blocked by the senate. It is after the poor not the rich.
    The ultimate aim of this government is to bring the family home into the assets test, lower both threshholds for assets and incomes tests and then ask people to sell their family home and pay for their retirements......with NO 'refund' for 50 years of taxes which had a pension component built into them. We all know how that one will play out.
    So get real and see that game for what it is. Your statement about no effect on YOUR RETIREMENT may yet be hollow words which come back to haunt you.
    KSS
    5th Aug 2014
    2:22pm
    Tia Maria, No Mr Hockey did not kick pensioners out of their homes overlooking Sydney Harbour. That was NSW Government who owned the properties. Please, Mr Hockey is not responsible for every perceived ill today.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    3:07pm
    That right another liberal government giving in to the rich builders
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    7:02pm
    Industrious Little Termites they are !!
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    9:59pm
    tia-maria

    I do not normally take issue with the hopelessly biased contributors to these pages but I feel constrained to point out to you that the resumption of prime properties in The Rocks area of Sydney was an action of the NSW State Govt and was, whatever your view, totally justified. Perhaps you didn't see the public housing tenant who was paying less than $100pw to occupy one of the prime spots in the city, driving away in his $100,000 Mercedes?
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    10:57pm
    Well thats funny Paddles. The report I read was about the NSW government changing votes for strata holders to only 75% to vote to sell all the units. Nothing to do with with public housing.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    9:55pm
    Frank: You say "everyone is hit hard". A lie. Average Australians are hit hard. The rich get tax cuts. And the rich. as a percentage of their income, will feel NO PAIN. Tell the truth.....oh yes....that is not a quality of any value from your beloved Liberal Party.
    MITZY
    7th Aug 2014
    2:50pm
    Frank: Seeing you think we deserve what we now get, after putting the "Unions"??? in for two terms, it looks as if your beloved Abbott/Hockey combo think we deserve what we now get as we've put big business in charge to run the show for the current three year term!
    God help us all.
    particolor
    13th Aug 2014
    9:32pm
    I think that there are some on this site that if JH POO'ED in their Bed they would still think He was a Wonderful Person ??...
    Either that or there is a Big Quid in Cash for Comment ??
    Kato
    5th Aug 2014
    11:22am
    And number twenty of the things we didn't know about Joe Hockey. Is the fact that we knew he is a shyster. and Joe didn't. know that we knew.
    particolor
    13th Aug 2014
    9:35pm
    And now Elected Doesn't Care Either !!
    Judy in the hills
    5th Aug 2014
    11:28am
    As a current part pensioner, I would love the politicians to try and live 'comfortably' on the current aged pension. There is however no thanks to all of us who have worked since our late teens and well into our 60's and maybe beyond those years WITHOUT claiming on the public purse until we retired with somewhat less than we need. If the politicians (ALL PARTIES) would be fairer in their attitudes it would be nice. If they made sure the true heavy lifters of the world got an even passably comfortable life as their grateful thanks, we may then be happier that the politicians only have to work for two terms to gain a very decent pension for life!! Now if that was the case for all of us, how pleased would we all be?
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    12:20pm
    Well - when you look at their basic yardstick for determining the value of their social policiesd such as PPL etc - $150k as a baseline.. I hit back already, saying that 25% of that baseline would fund a pensioner nicely until inflation caught up again along with costs of living artificially boosted through 'privatisation'.

    25% of $150k = $37.5k. That would help.
    KSS
    5th Aug 2014
    12:29pm
    Grappler that would be 25% of $100,000 equalling $25k. The ceiling was lowered some time ago. And you only get it for 6 months. And not everyone gets the highest $100,000. Far more get far less as the starting figure. So take a shop assistant on say $35k and do the maths on that. You get $8750.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    12:53pm
    There's the problem JSS - those with more get more, and those with less get less. Do kids cost less for a less well-off person?

    As I've said before and elsewhere - this kind of idiotic subsidy for your own life choices should not be going to pay for you luxury home mortgage, your overseas trip or your fancy car, but should be organised around a single payment rate for all to cater to the cost of a kid - IF it is needed at all.

    A woman on $100k has a hubby on $100k as well - if you can't pay a $30k a year mortgage out of that you need shooting.

    This thing is a nonsense designed to catch votes and was never expected to pass the Senate.. just like a lot of the other nonsense. then ToJo will point the finger at others for their failures.

    Schoolyard politics at its worst.

    Time for a real party to take care of real issues for Australians - all of them and not just their select group.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    1:57pm
    KSS: Will not EVERY NEW CHILD attract another 6 months PPL?
    This policy was a vote grabber which some greedy and stupid mums grabbed onto for a quick buck. What these people do not understand is that they will at some time in the future be worse off when they are subsidising the next generation to be paid for staying at home. But fear not because big business does not want this scheme and this government is already playing tag team with its elected representatives....effectively trying to talk itself out of having to implement the policy. Then Abbott will get in front of the cameras, be apologetic and say that the previous government left so much debt (ha, ha) that he had no option but to kick the can down the road (indefinitely). HE LIED AGAIN!!
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    1:57pm
    KSS: Will not EVERY NEW CHILD attract another 6 months PPL?
    This policy was a vote grabber which some greedy and stupid mums grabbed onto for a quick buck. What these people do not understand is that they will at some time in the future be worse off when they are subsidising the next generation to be paid for staying at home. But fear not because big business does not want this scheme and this government is already playing tag team with its elected representatives....effectively trying to talk itself out of having to implement the policy. Then Abbott will get in front of the cameras, be apologetic and say that the previous government left so much debt (ha, ha) that he had no option but to kick the can down the road (indefinitely). HE LIED AGAIN!!
    KSS
    5th Aug 2014
    2:16pm
    So Mick, Mr Abbott would be damned if he does introduce the PPL and damned if he doesn't. Talk about a bet each way;-)
    Dottie
    6th Aug 2014
    4:56pm
    I worked whole my life, paid a lot of taxes but I don't get a pension. I don't complain ! But over talking about fair! I worked with my hands, so did my husband, no degrees or anything. Be grateful about what you have! I am! Look before our time and look at a lot of people in the world who have nothing,
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    9:58pm
    KSS: Abbott is "damned" because he has demonsrtated that he is a deceitful liar and not to be trusted. I am waiting for Alan Jones to say 'he lied"....many times over.
    You are already aware that I have no time for this government but do me the courtesy of underdtanding the reason why. I assure you that it is not vindictiveness.
    streak
    5th Aug 2014
    11:34am
    Both sides are at fault. THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT SPENT LIKE THERE WAS NO TOMORROW , THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT IS CUTTING BACK! I would say let's see the next two budgets' contents.
    retroy
    5th Aug 2014
    11:52am
    Well said Streak.
    We are all going thro' hard times now, but if we break out of the labor affliction, then the next budgets should be less onerous. So whinge then, if this mob cannot get the country's finances back into some sort of order, because that will mean they cannot run the economy either.
    Unfortunately, the alternative looks pretty incompetent too.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    12:25pm
    Sorry lads - Howard started this streak of insanity called budgeting - that little bustard had billions pas through his hands and it all went.. where? GST - remember that filthy extra tax that inflated everything and handed government those billions?

    Where did it all go? Privatisation? Costs US - not them!

    That's your entire neo-Thatcherite LNP philosophy right there. Hit the people and call them names when your policies injure them out of a job, home of their own, hope and a future.


    "But... Dennissss! I don't want to be alorn! All I sid was that heard weark would mek them all BETTAH and nort sluckers!"

    "You always have been alone, Maggie. Goodbye."
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:04pm
    Streak: The previous government did not "spend like there was no tomorrow". What it did was to get this nation through the GFC without mass sackings. But what it did poorly was not solve the Boat People immigrants claiming to be refugees. And add to that caving in to the miners with themining tax when this industry was paying its Boards and CEOs hundreds of millions of dollars as well as failing to do anything about the ongoing social security frauds. Labor deserved to be thrown out....but this government should never have been elected as it was a fraud from the very beginning. In fact I have been waiting for Alan Jones to come on air and say 'he lied' because Tony Abbott has clocked up more than a few lies in his short time compared to one from the previous lot.
    In the end streak perhaps consider VOTING FOR A GOOD INDEPENDENT as this is the way out of the Woolies and Coles trap where no matter who you vote for you get lied to, attacked and treated like a mug. The only way to get both parties back to working correctly is to vote foe Indpendents so that they get a taste of dismissal of the permanent kind.
    andromeda143
    5th Aug 2014
    11:43am
    Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott couldn't lie straight in bed. They blatantly ignore the facts of what they said during and before the election. The Australian public have been duped completely. The sooner Palmer forces a double dissolution the better
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:06pm
    Abbott wil only go to a double dissolution if he thinks that he can win. At this stage that is unlikely so Abbott and his cutthroat front bench will see out their term.
    Persponally I don't understand why the caucus does not revolt and throw these Kerrs out before the party is thrown out by the public.
    Jen
    5th Aug 2014
    12:01pm
    No we shouldn't be surprised. The surprise is, how many are surprised. The writing was on the wall long before the election. People were so blinded by LNP propaganda that they wanted Labor out, no matter what. Now they're getting lied to on a daily basis, denigrated and robbed blind. I've never seen Australians so "political" as they are now and it's because they've been indocrinated to feel fear, hatred and loathing.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:08pm
    Politics has become the most deceitful of all professions and politicians are at ground level and even lower than second hand car salesmen and real estate agents.
    bookwyrm
    5th Aug 2014
    5:46pm
    Joe is an evil hippo with an account in the Cayman Islands. He admitted in his biography he wanted a much tougher budget. The Abbott Government only care about the rich. They rule on behalf of their billionaire masters, Wrinkly RooPoo, Fat Cranky Crazy Gina, and Totalitarian Twiggy.
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    10:15pm
    Jen

    I'd like to think that you are right when you say that Australians are more "political" Many years and much thought brought me to the conclusion that Australia's greatest ill was the political apathy of its people.

    How many of your friends and acquaintances have said to you... "Oh! I'm not interested in politics"? These may be otherwise intelligent people who apparently have a blind spot and refuse to recognise that politics shapes and rules our life.
    Anonymous
    6th Aug 2014
    4:07pm
    Too right only have to read most of the posts here and over in the meeting place where not many of you go, to see that most just pay lip service to being a Labor voter mainly or a rapid Green, taken in by the rhetoric from the box in the corner of the lounge, where facts are few and lies are many with altered words manipulating those who really are much too apathetic and why the phrase, "we get the government we deserve" was invented.
    for heavens sake stop fighting over this lot in lower house today and thank God for a Senate who will we can only hope, stop the stupid ripping off of those who can least afford it, by an a$%Hole with far too much money surrounded by far too many others on both sides of the house spitting spiteful attacks on each other, whilst pocketing far too much of the hard earned dollars we all gave much too when working and some still do.
    AS for someone having a go at another over too high pay in Canberra.
    well its true, PM gets paid double that of Obama and Cameron gets only around a third. And both have many more millions in population, America around 300 mil, whilst UK is around 62 mil. We are 23 mil of which only around 10 mil actually work paying income tax. Started off 0 years back with McQuarie Bank CEOearning 35 millions. Wonder just how much he paid in actual income tax - bet not as high as percentage of his gross than the average worker does on his. Due to far too many loop holes, and of course our current Treasurer, having a trust account allegedly as well as owning heaps of property and overseas bank account, said he wont touch the trusts. How many others in Parliament have these as well and when will they close the loop holes? Never at the rate both of them are going When in opposition pay lip service to poor old pensioners when in government rip them off seems to be it.
    Children are the magic way of getting what you want today as someone said earlier. They use them to manipulate opinion.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    12:03pm
    The real reason for our current problems as been told time and time again by economists was the rapid reduction in revenue not expenses. Why was this reduction? because at near election time politicians of both parties offered tax cuts. These tax cuts mainly affected the more affluent of our society (super subsidies, fuel subsidies and many more). This reduction in internal revenue collection was alleviated somewhat by selling our resources but then the crunch came when the level of demand dropped.

    Because of the reduced internal revenue had been drastically reduced because of the tax giveaways something had to be done. So this mob instead of looking at the age of entitlement that the current affluent enjoy decided to bash the less well off accusing them of living in the age of entitlement.

    Hockey is fighting a losing battle to convince a growing number of people that we, the less well off, are the problem while these inequities remain.

    This is not just pensioners but all low income earners. Considering that the low income earners, pensioners, all people between 18 and 65 who haven't or lost their job must be the growing mass of voters that must be greater than all the rest put together. Add to this all those who are affluent but have a social conscience then this government is doomed. But as arrogant as they are they don't see it.

    I see this government the same as those companies who export our jobs to poor countries taken advantage of poor house conditions which this country and other countries grew out of in the 1800's. Australia is a rich country but this flavour of government would truly like us all to end up back in the conditions that we fought out of. Yes we are a rich country and we should all have a bit of those riches not the so called lifters whose only want to increase their riches above all else. There is nothing wrong with being rich but being rich at the expense of others is another thing.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:14pm
    You are on the money. Australia is being held afloat by mining, a bit of agriculture and a few entrpeneurial businesses. What has been happening for several decades is that our jobs and wonderful resource assets have been sold off to foreign investors. With each one that goes we have less jobs and more imports.
    The downward spiral is going to get much worse so do not expect t'things' to get better. They won't. Even in the past few weeks we have lost David Jones and Estate wines (Penfolds Grange - in play).
    But never fear. Both sides of politics have been very busy selling the nation's freehold farming land to foreign governments so there will be cash for a while more. The question is: why has the public not been properly told and/or asked if selling our freehold farming land is permissible????? Don't worry....we'll find out later.
    heyyou
    5th Aug 2014
    3:16pm
    Look back at the last 50 years and count what industry, technology, has been sold, taken over by foreign companies (countries) with the permission of both sides of the leaders of this country, it is astounding. This sell-off borders on treachery, our once self sustainable Australia, with a great standard of living, "a fair go for all", the so called "lucky country" has been systematically robed of its resources by the immoral wealthy.
    wally
    5th Aug 2014
    12:04pm
    OMG! How bad can it get? Yesterday we were told about the horrors of erectile disfunction, today, about the horror budget that will have us all making soup out of pine cones and old roofing nails. What next? Bring back Kevin, Julia and Wayne and the spending spree of borrowed money from the Chinese? Bill Short-one is pretty good at carping about Hookey and Tony, but has he put forward any viable policy alternatives himself?
    tiger
    5th Aug 2014
    12:25pm
    Always remember WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND, and Joe and Tony will get theirs soon enough with all members of the LNP. Then we can all rejoice!!!!!!!!
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    10:32pm
    wally

    Don't hold your breath mate while you wait for the eponymous Shorten to deliver a "road to glory" dissertation on what the Labor party has up its sleeve.

    He is an insignificant little man cast into the role of leading a group of people who are only distinguished by their mediocrity.
    MITZY
    7th Aug 2014
    3:07pm
    wally: How quickly you forget when the party you favour has to now take the flack.
    Its less than a year ago everybody was "chanting", where are the Abbott Government's policies? Why would Shorten give away any trade secrets two years away from electioneering time? The Labor MP'S are now just dishing out what they have been receiving from bully boy Abbott for considerable time while he was in Opposition. It's what they all do wally, OPPOSE when in OPPOSITION.
    Rod63
    5th Aug 2014
    12:13pm
    I have heard so many people say words like, "I voted for this government, but I didn't vote for this". They are so regretting their vote - sucked in by all the lies.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:15pm
    Yep. If nothing else perhaps people will cherish their vote and not give it to any side which treats them like mugs.

    5th Aug 2014
    12:15pm
    I seriously doubt that this lot have the sanity to even begin to understand what they are doing. Not one of them has but endured the vicissitudes of a silver spoon stuck in the mouth and the best education that money didn't need to buy (apart from supported private school fees, of course) - and it simply does not even enter their befuddled minds that what they are doing is hurting people.

    They get around this - in true psychopathic fashion - by arbitrarily labeling those who have suffered endlessly from their (and Labor's) social revolutions for thirty plus years and have lost massively as a result (read my books sometime) - as 'slackers', 'leaners' and so forth - while doing not one thing to genuinely bring about employment for those same people at a rate which shows their value to society.

    They are addicted to 1980's Thatcherisms and Reaganisms - not one of which worked in the real world and each of which was nothing more than a manifestation of the mostly stupid self-interest and self-obsession of the utterer at the time.

    Same here.

    Let me add that Labor is equally guilty of the same approach - it is perfectly in order to break a few eggs to achieve your omelette, one designed in the quadrangle of the university amongst like-minded persons, but of no real value outside that narrow arena. As long as those eggs are not THEIRS and they skate all the way to the bank - all is in order.

    Well - I disagree. I've endured the 'equalisation' of women in the public service under affirmative action and the direct violence against men inherent in the fatally flawed sets of 'laws' these fools of both sides have put in place.

    Now it is time to pay the piper for real....that'll be around $12m thank you for loss of everything so far.

    Ask me again why I oppose both sides of this sorry Tag Team of over-privileged and piratical fools......
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:16pm
    Grappler: You assume that they care.
    heyyou
    5th Aug 2014
    3:48pm
    Grappler, corruption runs deep because the majority of Australian voters have been asleep when it comes to government.
    Polly Esther
    5th Aug 2014
    12:17pm
    It's Gough Whitlams fault.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    12:32pm
    Yes -
    Gough was foolish enough to think ahead and feel that Oz should buy control over its resources in the ground.......
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    10:39pm
    Grappler

    No mate! That was Rex Francis Xavier Connor and he foundered on the rock known as Tirath Khemlani.
    Stoker
    5th Aug 2014
    12:22pm
    What harsh budget?? What snakes in the grass? Oh, I know who you all meant, them twerps Rudd that blew the bank balance, followed by Gillard that doubled the PM's salary plus, and now this present lot that have gotta find $1 billion per month to pay Interest only, and they gunna make us all pay. Oh don't I love this RC going on about the unions that have financially destroyed us all.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    12:31pm
    Unfortunately Stoker they are not making all of use pay just the less advantaged.
    Rod63
    5th Aug 2014
    12:34pm
    Not a very unbiased, balanced view there, Stoker.
    KSS
    5th Aug 2014
    12:44pm
    Oh Rod63 why pick on Stoker? The same could be said for most of the posts on this site including. There is very little balance, ever, here!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    12:47pm
    Haven't noticed ToJo halving the PM's salary plus yet..... just part of the job while the peasants work for the dole, and debtors in Queensland might be put in the work house.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    1:00pm
    Maybe not very balanced. What is done is done. The previous government missed a very big chance of consolidation. Instead they blew it all. But they also did some good things and with all good things they are passed over by the bad things they did.

    Newpapers don't sell either without juicy bad things to report.

    Yes this government may have perceived that they have a problem to fix. But are they going the right way in fixing it is the question here. Are they attacking the right areas to fix it. They attack the less well off who can't afford it while leaving the more well off who can. Don't come back with this whimsical levy that only last a year while they put into place things that will affect the less well off for ever.

    What get me about all this if these well of are the lifters, why do they need help.
    Rod63
    5th Aug 2014
    1:02pm
    @KSS - you are probably right but there are particularly poor comments there, completely untrue: "What harsh budget?" "Gillard that doubled the PM's salary" and "the unions that have financially destroyed us all".
    I don't mind opinion, but hate incorrect facts stated as the truth.
    Tom Tank
    5th Aug 2014
    1:37pm
    Spot on Rod 63. Too many people were sucked in by the Murdoch press, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt etc all frantically campaigning to get the current lot elected.
    The Labor Party have things to answer for but NOT the amount of rubbish that is still be directed at them. read the Australian and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to pick the blatant pro Liberal stance on virtually every topic.
    we are very poorly served by our media, 80% Murdoch owned.
    We can solve our problems overnight by using Norway as an example who know how to NOT give away their mineral resources for nothing as we do.
    Jen
    5th Aug 2014
    2:10pm
    Tom, a little off-topic I know, but a cafe in Brisbane has banned all Murdoch newspapers. I hope it's the beginning of many more. We have them banned in this house.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:20pm
    Stoker: The election is over. You can stop using the slogans about black holes and the like. The so called budget emergency did not and does not exist. If it did then why did Abbott inc. remove the debt ceiling (Liberal not Labor did this) and why did the same person give big business and the rich...who have been doing very very nicely for the past 2 decades...a TAX CUT OF 1.5% instead of paying off the deficit? Answer: there is not emergency. There never was.
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    4:57pm
    I totally agree Stoker.
    If the RC can put a few more away before they get into the Labor Party then it will save us a lot of pain in the future.
    Many people I talk to share that view. So do not despair the True Blue Aussie lives!!!

    mick, do some research. The Budget is still out of control. We cannot continue to run deficits. Anyone with a genuine love of this country and an ability to be impartial can see that.
    Anonymous
    6th Aug 2014
    4:21pm
    Sorry Tom Tank but Murdoch backed Rudd in 2007 did you conveniently forget that and they do have a more balanced view than the Fairfax Press who have gone bonkers lately due mainly to the fact they have lost much too much readership and going broke rapidly so desperate men etc.
    As for Andrew Bolt he isnt a rabid far right he is right of centre today but sometime goes just left of it too meaning still more like the Labor man he once was, am am I. Hard when a party hwo once was great has been changed s much and so many dont realize it. Neither red or blue are that worried about us voters as know with compulsory voting one of the other will always be either the government or the Opposition so their nice little earners are safe. Its only the silly voters who wont demand democracy back starting with back to the original system first past the post with the highest number of votes wins the seat. all else plus preferences are corruption in action and why we get rotten governments who break the promises they made to gain power. Started with 2007 2010 and now 2013 election promises are being broken and as someone said it is true that the revenue is down not only here but all over the west with all governments promising tax cuts if re- elected as well as the other side and have cut the backside out of revenue whilst making sure they kept theirs in greater heaps then we do under PAYE. All on it would be my dream and then get it back lie we have to, and see how much rolls in then.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    10:01pm
    Frank: Did you see on the news tonight. ANOTHER 2 LIBERAL PARTY POLLIES HAVE STOOD DOWN because the ICAC has caught them behaving corruptly. And you continue to push your bosses 'Labor is bad' line???
    Oldie87
    5th Aug 2014
    12:51pm
    OMG, same old, same old, same old.
    A few voices of reason who want to keep this on an even keel but to no avail.
    The Haters are in full flight !!!!
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    2:49pm
    It Never Hurt Me A Bit !! NA NA NE NA NA !!
    bookwyrm
    5th Aug 2014
    5:52pm
    I‘m going to order my Tony Ratbag Abbott voodoo doll. The sales are booming on the internet.
    Oldie87
    5th Aug 2014
    6:11pm
    Off you go then if it gives you a warm feeling. :-)
    Brissiegirl
    5th Aug 2014
    1:00pm
    The previous Rudd-Gillard chaos was the worst managed, spendthrift outfit I can remember. Gillard is now reaping the financial benefits of her time (shared with Rudd) as Prime Minister. Do either of them give a jot about the mess they left behind? They got our country into debt with their vote-buying spending and now we are complaining because we are going to have to pay it back. We can't take hand-outs, cheques for doing absolutely nothing, and expect there will be no penalty in the future. I thought Hockey's budget was too hard, too fast. It might be their downfall. Unfortunately we will then be delivered back into the incompetent arms of union thugs with their entitlement to choose who controls our country. The borders will be thrown open and then I ask, how many will be too many Centrelink seekers? 50,000, 500,000, 1-2 million? It's a trade-off, pay back Labor's disgraceful financial ruin, or have 45% of taxpaying Australians spread the benefits to anyone who decides to force their way in here. I know what I'll pick, even if I think the budget measures clouted all of us around the head when they would have done far better to make haste slowly.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    1:34pm
    As I said previously , what is done is done. This comment stream is about how this government is going on fixing it. Is it fair that they are using the less well of as the scapegoats. We should remember that businesses certainly benefited during the previous governments rein.

    This government certainly seems ready to make sure that they continue to benefit at the expense of the rest of us low earners. By the way I consider myself a low earner but I take no benefits from the taxpayer except maybe a seniors card that allows me reduced transport tickets.

    This government had to do something but they are shooting themselves in the foot the way they are going. Prime examples are stopping subsidies to motor manufactures when they screamed about Labor trying to cut fringe benefit tax for cars. This should have been a obvious cut as the original intention of this tax was to promote the sale of locally produced cars. Seeing locally produced cars are going soon. What are we doing then we will be subsidizing OVERSEAS produced cars. Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.

    This is but one of the may areas that this will happen. What about these overseas companies buying up our local land producing things and shipping direct to their own countries. I guess we are subsidizing them will the diesel subsidy which should only go to our own locally owned farmers. I could go on about our selling the farm.

    Just see one of our own companies trying to buy up land in China, Japan or many other countries and see how far they would get. Our politicians just don't care or even look to the future what these sort of things will affect our future. All they are in the main is interested in themselves.

    We do need a bigger hive of independents to start bringing them into line. Unfortunately I believe you need to be a party to form government so even if there were a majority of independents they could not for a government in their own right but at least they could "keep the bastards honest" as what was a famous comment.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:26pm
    Brissiegirl: You are simply repeating the Abbott electioneering slogans. They are not true but you and some others repeat them repeatedly. Why?
    The Financial ruin you talk about was essentially the action taken so that Australians were not sacked like they were in every other forst world economy. The debt you talk about is modest, not high. Another election slogan.
    This government has put up a budget which DOES NOT REPAY ANY DEBT but simply transfers money to its side of politics: big business and the rich.
    There's an old saying which goes 'follow the money trail'. This goes FROM the poor and heads TO the rich.
    heyyou
    5th Aug 2014
    4:13pm
    Wstaton, in regards to your last paragraph, at least your thinking, but the reality is independents form fluid alignment groups in parliament to vote through like-minded legislation then disperse if they do not agree. Remember these independent representatives are directly responsible to their electorate for their actions and a position in government and not to a party leader or power brokers as we have now.
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    5:02pm
    Brissiegirl, well said!!!!!
    buby
    6th Aug 2014
    9:56am
    We be back to riding push bikes and using public transport even now as we speak many of us are starting Wstation, just to try to keep up with the chinese!!! While the poor elderly home owners are being screwed over by the elite
    Grumpy
    5th Aug 2014
    1:21pm
    KSS I'm not being rude to you but addressing your response to toopoortobeme. Where have you been for the last 4 years? During that time the Coalition invariably played the man not the ball ie vilified the person rather than attacking the policy with reasoned argument. For you to now admonish toopoortobeme seems a little precious.
    KSS
    5th Aug 2014
    2:11pm
    Grumpy, Just because others may have done the same or similar things in the past does not make it ok.

    I have made many such comments on many occasions here. It is one the worst aspects about this site. The frequent abuse of individuals, both politicians and indeed contributors to this site, becomes no-one, belittles the writer and adds nothing to the debate.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:27pm
    Rules for some, different rules for others. So what else does one expect from the most disreputable government in AUstralian history.
    Grumpy
    5th Aug 2014
    1:26pm
    Retroy, you speak of the Coalition fixing the mess left by the others. The others had policies which addressed future issues. I have yet to see any evidence of the current government doing anything which fixes any problems past. present or future. We get nothing but slick slogans and press releases 90% of the content of which is at best misleading. Demonstrate to me one single thing they have actually fixed yet. Everything is in limbo because of their highhandedness in dealing with anyone not of their persuasion.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:28pm
    Spot on.
    Oldie87
    5th Aug 2014
    6:13pm
    The o t h e r s had policies, Grumpy?
    You are pulling our leg surely?
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    10:50pm
    Grumpy

    I'd say that they have done a pretty fair job in stopping the illegal entrants to this country courtesy of the people smugglers.
    MITZY
    7th Aug 2014
    3:33pm
    Grumpy: Spot on: In the time of the most hostile opposition we've ever witnessed, and in the time of a Hung Parliament, Ms. Gillard and the Labor Government managed to legislate more than 600 pieces of legislation. This government in eleven months in office hasn't achieved too much apart from stopping the boats and abolishing the carbon tax which probably should never have been abolished. It is now systematically destroying the education system, the health system, tampering with the disability support, taxing people with Medicare co-payments and eroding pensioners income down the track. Abbott/Hockey are trying to leave not one trace of anything good the Labor government implemented, especially anything that hinders the obscene incomes of the high end of town and the mining industry. Well put, Grumpy, I'm feeling a bit that way myself.
    Grumpy
    5th Aug 2014
    1:38pm
    Streak and all those whop refer to the mess left by the previous government take note. The real origin of our current "crisis" is the generosity of the "World's greatest treasurer" (Costello) who progressively ran down the tax base to a point where Australia is one of the most lightly taxed nations in the OECD. Reductions in tax were greatest for comapanies and the highest income earners. That position persists.
    Using Treasury and ATO statistics I have calculated that if those earning over$180K pa had their net tax rate increased from the current 27% of taxable income to 32% and Companies Tax was increased from its current all time low 30% to 31.5% there would be no deficit at all.
    The whole debate is really about the distribution of wealth, and consequently power. Those who have will not let go and only want more.
    What sort of Australia do you want?
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:30pm
    You've hit on an interesting point Grumpy. The mining boom was at its peak under Costello but what did he do? He gave out $5000 as a Baby bonus (about as dumb as the paid parental leave scheme) and began reducing the aount of tax paid by the rich. But what else would you expect from a Liberal government.
    Sceptic
    5th Aug 2014
    4:53pm
    Mick, I thought that you were complaining in an earlier post about people not quoting facts. The mining boom was at it's peak, by far, during the Rudd/Swann/Gillard Swann years. A lie is a lie even when you spout it as the truth.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    10:03pm
    Sceptic: All the reports I have heard state that it was a its peak during the Howard/Costello years. I must admit that the prices for orin ore were higher under the last government. Maybe you can shed a bit of light on how that works. I'm all ears.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    10:04pm
    And by the way Sceptic I DO NOT LIE, but I make the odd mistake as well. Sorry that you think I am a sham.
    MITZY
    7th Aug 2014
    3:58pm
    Grumpy: When I went to work (starting in 1957) every single budget announced increases to the income tax rates, I can't ever remember getting too many income tax cuts. The Howard/Costello years brought a tax cut every single year they were in office just about, and besides this, so many hand-outs to so many.
    This government has now "found" 600 odd million overnight for terrorism/security measures, no wonder we have no debt ceiling.
    Dottie
    5th Aug 2014
    1:39pm
    Why are we all complaining! We don't know yet if the poorest are hit the hardest. We better wait before we keep complaining. I suppose the lowest incomes will be compensated.
    As for the budget, we knew that it was going to be harsh! What do we expect, there are more people on Government money than working, our import is a lot more that the export! The mines are scheduling down instead of up. And we are complaining that we can't have our cup of coffee anymore! WE almost all have a phone, a car, television, computer etc.. and food on the table, these day it is never enough anymore!
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:35pm
    The point is that we do know Dottie and that there is much worse coming in the next one, if this one gets through.
    I agree with your comment about social security which has become a way of life rather than a lifeline. As far as the mining though that one depends on world supply and demand. Continually expanding supply as has been happening only means that the price will drop. Iron ore was at $190 a tonne a year ago and is now $93 a tonne. This is where Australia is going to be hit hard as we will still need to import everything becauseover 30 years of closing down out industries has led us to the slaughter. And then the fun will begin.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    2:45pm
    Unemployment is a way of life of reality - not by choice. 1.5+m un- and under-employed out there and 130,000 vacancies. $250 a week while others rake in $6k a week or more. Yeah that sings as a choice in lifestyle.

    I can see people just lining up to survive on $250 a week and have no future or hope for anything except vilification from those who stole their right to a job to line their and their mates' pockets.
    MITZY
    7th Aug 2014
    4:21pm
    We do know Dottie, its all set out in the budget, why would a big-business government compensate the lowest income earners? If they are lowering the way pensions are calculated to achieve a better income end result for the government, it would defeat the purpose. If you read the press releases giving this information directly from the Treasury papers, then you listen to the university professors and other financial professionals they are all "singing to the same tune", i.e. the poorest/low income/pensioners are being hit the hardest. They are the ones doing the heavy lifting.
    Dottie in 1957 when I arrived in Australia my relatives who sponsored my family had a car, big old-fashioned home phone, (1958 a t.v.) computers unheard of, of course, and my Uncle and Auntie owned their own home too. Australia, at the time, was the best country in the world, definitely the land of milk and honey as it was depicted. This government FOR BIG BUSINESS doesn't give a damn about pensioners and lower income recipients, they seem to have even GAGGED the welfare organizations who give a voice to our needs, we are being isolated.
    All of a sudden the PUPS have lost their voices, the silence is deafening from them, and to me its currently like "the calm before the storm" when Clive and his PUPS will find their voices in favour of the current government's budget. I wonder what bartering is going on at the moment?????
    Reeper
    5th Aug 2014
    2:24pm
    I don't understand why every one makes this subject political. I begin to wonder if it is the politicians who are the wankers or the writers of inane and non-productive comments. Regardless of the state of the economy, those with less always suffer the most....you can't make poor people rich from those who are already rich, and you can't spend more money than the government takes in. What we are paying for today is the spending of yesterday; that is true of governments and personal budgets. If people put as much effort into squaring up the economy as they do about whining about what they don't have and won't have, we would all be very rich
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    2:35pm
    You may not be able to make all the poor rich, but you can certainly spread the lifting a lot more evenly, so as to ensure that all have at least the basics - something sadly lacking in an economy with 1.5 or more out of twelve million un- and under-employed, along with a near total lack of real job opportunity accompanied by the enrichment of some at the expense of all others.

    Thatcherism don't go 'round here no more, Mistah!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    2:38pm
    "If moy guvinmint destroys YOUR job and your opportunitehs, then you can simply go out and find anotheh job, you slacker, and stop complaining about those who heve EARNED their place with heard weark! Heard weark will meke you a rich man!"

    That's the idea, Maggie.. wake up - I think I've got something to say to you!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    2:42pm
    And how about 25%= currently living on less than $20k a year, and 40% set to retire on nothing more than the pension?

    Sound like a good economy to you? The same twerps who pontificate about these things with zero real understanding or knowledge, and who deliberately overlook experts with experience to push their ideological barrows (such as Treasury) - are the very same ones who whine endlessly about 'slackers' and 'leaners' on pensions and unemployment - while they laugh all the way to the bank!

    S'wrong wit'chew?
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:44pm
    Reeper: We are always in a Class struggle with those who have money and power trying to take it all. Your position seems to be that the game is fair but it never is. It never ceases to irk me that the rich have rules written for their benefit (because only they have the money to use them) whilst everybody else needs to pay high taxes and have none of the bells and whistles.
    And then you get governments like this one who are elected on lies and then do the bidding of their politicil masters whilst trying to turn average citizens into a slave sub culture.
    Am I off the planet with my comments? The answer to that is to LOOK AT THE FACTS and LOOK AT WHERE THE MONEY TRAIL LEADS. I welcome being branded as a left wing radical if the above do not enlighten those who look for the truth.
    The truth will set you free!!!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    2:48pm
    Hmm - agree Mick - but my position is hardly one of saying it is fair.. actually I totally agree with your position. I am prone to sarcasm and send-up to make the same points as you.

    People can whine about how the rich pay more tax, as Joe tried to sell yesterday - they also get all the tax dodges, which shows clearly that they do NOT pay their full load of tax.

    THAT is why there is a sliding tax scale related to incomes. Even highly-paid public servants get a 'package' - all of which should be subject to full tax.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    10:06pm
    Yes Grappler. Correct.
    Incognito
    5th Aug 2014
    2:28pm
    The rich get richer the poor get poorer. 70 million Americans rely on foodstamps, are we heading this way? Savings can be made by the budget by cutting back on politicians pensions and perks, like flying an empty VIP plane from Perth to Canberra at the cost of $16,000 each time!
    MICK
    5th Aug 2014
    2:50pm
    Americans are the perfect example of why this fight needs to be fought. It is sad how Americans are done over by the rich and do not have the fight in them to change the system.
    The power to achieve a fair outcome where the rich can do well but the poor are not plundered and turned into slaves LIES IN THE BALLOT BOX. That is what it was intended to do. And this can only be achieved when voters give a damn, take an interest and see the lies and dishonesty before an election, not after.
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    2:52pm
    The Annual Lonely Hostie Flight !!
    Jen
    5th Aug 2014
    2:58pm
    Totally agree, mick.
    Grumpy
    5th Aug 2014
    2:57pm
    KSS Your response to my comment implies that that its OK for one side to consistently resort to personal abuse and rely exclusively on emotive personal attacks, as the then Opposition did, but not to subject them to a dose of their own medicine when the boot is on the other foot.
    The then Labour government tried the dignified approach and look where it got them.
    I suggest you revisit some of the politicians wrangling. you will consistently find that the Coalition repeatedly launched vituperative attacks on labour, but at the slightest whiff of personal criticism of theirs cried "Foul!!!!!"
    If they can't take it they shouldn't dish it up!
    KSS
    5th Aug 2014
    5:35pm
    I am implying nothing Grumpy. I am saying it loud and clear; personal abuse of anyone is WRONG, insulting others on a public forum is WRONG. Just because others may have done it before does NOT make it OK then or now. It ISN'T.

    AND it adds nothing to the debate. It simply shows the writer/speaker up for what they are.
    tisme
    5th Aug 2014
    3:06pm
    from what I can gather more welfare cuts are to come, age care /social services etc. ridiculous thing is at the next election people are likely to vote labor again forgetting how they spent us into debt , and forgetting why abbott is now running amok. both sides are responsible for the debt we are in yet they dont suffer spending cuts.
    Give a little man power and he will drive u to the devil , after driving u onto the streets
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    3:16pm
    Yeah, Hitler was little
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    3:18pm
    Actually Labor did not spend us into debt - the debt cycle is based on any number of things and is set to rise - why do you think Round Joey raised the debt ceiling to infinity?

    You seriously think he is not going to raise money by borrowing?

    Also the rise is partly contributable to inflation = loss of value of dollars. What was a big loan ten years ago is a small loan now - that is why it appears to up and up.

    You are listening to LNP propaganda and swallowing it whole.

    The problem is not with borrowings for household expenditure - it is with borrowings to fund what are NOT household expenditure items - and both parties are guilty of that.

    You ever had a mortgage? You borrowed money, right? Then you repay it. Same deal here - with the only difference being that these clowns up there in CBR spend like sailors on ideological ideas such as 'privatisation' and 'women's rights'.

    Well - ToJo has a household debt to pay to pensioners and those thrown on the jobs scrapheap - that is a household debt incurred through our paying taxes for generations, and always was, since Menzies in 1944 - part of the deal.

    Now - you have an argument with repaying household debt?

    The PROBLEM is that governments here find it too easy to borrow and to use that money for all the wrong moves.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    3:19pm
    THEN they figure the only way to get out of debt is to rob the poor - again!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    3:32pm
    IF there is a budget problkem - and I do not accept there is apart from the Usual Suspects getting away with billions offshore through company racketeering on resources projects - it is in REVENUE - an issue quickly fixed by properly taxing all including the rich on their real incomes and not allowing tax dodges that suit them only.

    All it takes is a few pen strokes. And you know what? Baklash Chaudry will not refuse a chance to 'invest' in resources here if it costs a little more....

    Again - look at realities - the outgoing Chinese 'president' family had a net worth of 200 BILLION... that's what our guys here think is their entitlement.
    particolor
    6th Aug 2014
    9:30pm
    Well isn't it ??..
    Grumpy
    5th Aug 2014
    3:17pm
    Consider a fe facs in the debate over the deficit and what action is required to fix it. Following data is drawn for ATO and Treasury stats readily available from their web sites.
    Joe Hockey divides Australians into "Lifters" and "Leaners" without definition, but with the implication that the wealthiest and companies are the heavy lifters.
    Analyse ATO data and you will find that those with taxable income below $20k paid no tax, incomes between $20K and $80K paid an overall rate of 32%, and 38% on taxable income between $80k and $180k. ased on that, if posed as an intelligence test question where would you pitch the rate for income in excess of $180k? 44%, 40%? No. 27%. is the answer. Then we come to the companies whose tax rate has for over a decade been at the all time low rate of 30%
    So, Joe, who are the lifers and who are the leaners? As I expect his income to be in excess of $80k, Joe clearly qualifies as a heavy leaner, not a lifter.
    The above does not recognise the opportunities available to the very wealthy (XS of $180k pa) to manipulate and massage taxable income to ensure they pay only a minimum. Such oportunities are not readily available, or viable for those lifters and heavy lifters in the middle income brackets
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    3:24pm
    Spot on, Grumpy. I've cited before that people would not use company or trust etc structures unless they were cost-effective in terms of taxation - which means instantly they are not paying their way.

    Let's look at Joey for a moment - he worked in cash handling - other people's money paid his way, and was often used to gain his position in life. In handling other people's money he copped a nice salary and benefits plus bonuses, plus access to cash.

    It could be more properly called corporate thievery and the entire corporation structure could fairly be defined as legitimised theft.

    NONE of these pay their full burden of tax... everyone else does through GST and all such taxes.. we are ALL taxpayers even those on zero income tax, and thus the only 'leaners' and 'slackers' are Joe and his like.
    Dottie
    5th Aug 2014
    3:35pm
    We all complaining about company tax. But that is the company who has to pay that! If owners take a salary out of the Company they pay the same tax as you and me and that is on top the 30% company tax. A Company doesn't have a Tax free component as we do.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    4:04pm
    A company is a separate entity - it gets to deduct salaries etc paid before it pays tax. No problem at all. Again - if it were not cost effective it would not exist.

    You know the difference between gross profit and net profit after deductions?

    The company cries poor since it only made five million this year - the boss still got his $1.5m in director's fees which came out before that profit was calculated.. capisce?
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    4:07pm
    Those owners also get to deduct nice cars which Jo and Joe Bloggs do not get to do while they are earning their way through wages. Those nice cares are often way above what is necessary for the business.... you cannot pick up a tonne of fish from the markets in a $400,000 Maserati. A $20,000 Holden Combo will carry 700kg.....
    Dottie
    5th Aug 2014
    4:34pm
    They set up the company and put their money on the line! Aren't they entitled to something. Most small Company directors I know work harder as their employees. And for you information they have all the worries too. As for a Company car. for your information, they are only deductable till Appr.$ 57,000.00. So it's not all sunshine. Why always blame big business for everything. I went back to school to study when I was 40. Always worked hard and I have now the benefits. Paid taxes all my life just ass the rest and more too. I am not rich but I don't get a pension. I don't complain, only saying why have you more rights than Me? Worked hard, paid more. It is just at which side of the line you're standing!
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    5:08pm
    We know who the leaners are. They're the ones railing and name calling. Caught!! Like a kid with his hand in the lolly jar!!! Gotcha!!!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    5:47pm
    So Jo and Joe Bloggs put nothing on the line by marketing themselves out there for pennies? Why is someone entitled to anything for putting money into a potential money-making enterprise any more than a punter is entitled to a win or a handout for putting money on a horse?

    People put their money in to win - nobody said it was a rose garden to suit some and not others....and if you lose then you lose, but you should be doing it on your own merits.

    What more worry is there than being one of those with no work, no opportunity and no hope for anything as a future?

    I blame big business for the simple reason that they are inept, inefficient, shuffle money around to hide it, cop every bit of socialism that can possibly benefit them, pay greedy people unwarranted sums to do very little, and then complain about other people earning enough to get by in an economic environment largely created by the ineptitude, selfishness and rorting of business.

    Where did I say I had more rights than you? I simply point out your fallacies - this is not a 'poor victim woman' discussion.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    6:02pm
    Dottie - you have to realise that there are many who worked damned hard too and DIDN'T get the benefits. If you went back to school at 40 and now retired without a pension - someone took good care of you. Many cop the short end of the stick and nobody gives them a free ride and perks.

    Most have done at least what you say.. that is not always a guarantee of a sweet ride - especially when some are intent on ruining this country - those called politicians with their short-sighted ideologies.

    You want to compare?

    I worked for the public service - I created a system they use to this day and was pushed out to satisfy affirmative action.

    I then worked 100+ hours a week of real work - due to social ideas and garbage and dopes who run companies into the ground I ended up broke, sick, still owed money, and on the streets where you are a target for everyone on every side - at 50.

    I'm 65, still work, and have fifteen disabilities, some war caused.

    Now you say what you like - but let me tell you I've EARNED my right to my say many times over, and one hell of a lot more!

    I wouldn't mind one day of 'women's oppression' for a change.
    Oldie87
    5th Aug 2014
    6:17pm
    OUCH !!!
    Dottie
    6th Aug 2014
    7:47pm
    I don't play the poor women but you are playing the poor man! Nobody took care of me, I took care of myself. I'm not a highflyer I earned extra money by cleaning.
    Extra money went into Super, and their was no going in town for coffee and cake what seems to be normal nowadays. There were no free rides for me. It seems that most people here think that everybody cheated other people out of their money. As we don't pay here extra for a pension maybe we should be grateful to get one! Pensioners with a pension get a health card, free rego, can take the train, get discount on a lot of things, while a lot of people just above that income get nothing for free!
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    10:08pm
    Frank: There are certainly leaners. There are also 'white collar conmen' and Hockey needed to use this term to describe those who are permitted to avoid the taxation system with all the outs which Liberal governments have in place over decades FOR THEIR OWN.
    Jen
    7th Aug 2014
    9:34am
    The thing is Dottie, you're ignoring the fact that it's not a level playing field. If it was, you'd have done much, much better than you did. And the big end of town would have to be more accountable and would need to be paid what they're worth, not millions for doing very little. It's a warped world we live in.
    Polly Esther
    5th Aug 2014
    3:36pm
    Hey what about a serve for Joseph Lyons, stuffed the country up from '32 right through to '39.
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    5:04pm
    Don't know much about "Honest Joe" other than he must have been intelligent, because he got out of the labor party.
    MICK
    6th Aug 2014
    10:10pm
    You crack me up Frank. Methinks you know "Honest Joe" (a mismatch in description) quite well. Come clean. I mean you sell the slogans and crap which oozes from this government.
    Mike Butler
    5th Aug 2014
    5:14pm
    Unfortunately, I am one of those "higher earners" who pay for the "benefits" of the "lower earners" --- those that ACOSS and the Greens call "disadvantaged"! How is it that I work so hard and pay so much in tax, but some amazing percentage of the Australian population essentially pay no tax at all and actually get a nett benefit from the tax system? Oh! I did not understand! It is these people who essentially pay no tax at all who I am robbing with this new budget. How the hell can you be worse off in a tax system that you don't pay any tax at all into? Oh! I see! You are going to get a lesser handout than you were getting before! Surely it is time to stop this misleading rubbish.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    5:52pm
    Hmm! here we are with the impression that because some are earning a low income we assume that they are not working their butts off in order to earn that low income. Think about all those cleaners who are invisible for example are not working hard for wages that are low while others are comfortably at home after working for a day for their fat wages.
    Oldie87
    5th Aug 2014
    6:06pm
    True Wstaton, but then you are doing exactly the same as you are accusing Mike of, only in reverse !
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2014
    6:10pm
    So fricken what Wstaton?
    Mike has a very valid point!!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    6:20pm
    Your proportionate tax v income is less than theirs. They all pay tax every day in every way - income tax is only one part, and it is clear you earn enough to have a lot more left over - thus your tax percentage and costs of living are lower.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    6:23pm
    * costs of living are lower as a percentage of your income.

    Philosophically - you are falling into the Thatcherite trap of assuming that you worked for your money but nobody else did, so 'they' are all slackers and leaners but you are not even though someone gave you a good run somewhere, some time.

    A failed idea that is pure self-interest, arrogance and utter stupidity.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    6:27pm
    Easily fixed - let's put everyone on the same high level of income that you enjoy and tax everyone the same... problem solved.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    7:00pm
    You're right oldie81 but again they are not hurting.
    Viv
    5th Aug 2014
    7:04pm
    Well said Mike. The Grappier, that's fine as long as everyone reaches the same level of education and takes the same risks.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    7:54pm
    In that case, Viv - let's ensure totally equal opportunity regardless of all factors including work input, and then nobody can complain about paying more for receiving more since it's all due to luck.. I say again - the percentage of tax paid v income for a low income earner is considerably higher than that of a high earner. You no like - give away some of your income then. Social security recipients and low earners return 100% of income to the taxation cycle within days of receipt - high earners most emphatically do not, and are a net loss to taxation due to their spending patterns in dead stock such as investments and overseas trips that return nothing to the tax coffers.

    Do not confuse income tax with taxation.

    As for 'risks' - what risk is involved in getting a spot at uni etc? If you are discussing business - I refer you to my post below.... you have no more guarantee of 'winning' nor right to privileged treatment in tax for taking a punt, any more than a bettor on a horse race does.

    Like the pursuit of happiness - you are entitled to try - you are by no means entitled to be offered unlimited support in trying, any more than Jo or Joe Bloggs has any right to guarantees from work these days. Same applies to politicians, BTW - these are short-term contracted employees with an option of renewal of contract - there is zero obligation to offer them a lifetime income, and they are already remunerated accordingly and should be making their own arrangements for retirement.

    If indeed investing in business were so risky - why then do those who fail in large enterprises end up with a bag of gold?

    You are being hoodwinked and are accepting that what is is somehow right and the only way it should be - and that somehow those with a lucky streak or a good run are somehow 'better' than others, meaning that those who fail or are failed (note the difference) as a matter of policy are somehow 'slackers' and 'leaners'.

    The only slackers and leaners are those who do not pay tax on their incomes in full, and that is not those on social security or Jo and Joe Bloggs on wages.
    Kato
    5th Aug 2014
    9:40pm
    Grappler - well said your writings are very enjoyable and educational . Thanks.
    Jen
    6th Aug 2014
    9:28am
    Mike, try to remember you're not the only person paying tax and thereby helping others. Most of us don't even begrudge it, because it's what a civilised population does. What we begrudge is the little to no tax the big end of town pays, the Gina Rineharts of this world who pay a hell of a lot less tax, get benefits the PAYE worker doesn't like subsidised fuel, and have access to the assets of all Australians. If this lot paid their way, your tax obligation towards welfare would be far, far less. So make your complaints about them.
    maczee
    5th Aug 2014
    5:29pm
    We do not need another election, what a criminal waste of money, because I think all politicians are a waste of space, so lets make sure we stop voting for parties and start voting for some one who is going to represent the wishes of the voters, I don't know how a Parliament will work with true independents representing us all, but the present system is not fair, or just, we need to find a better way. Lets make sure we get the best people in who will work for the common good.
    Dottie
    5th Aug 2014
    5:33pm
    what is the common good? You can't satisfy millions of different opinions!
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    5:57pm
    But we can for those who have the money.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    6:29pm
    Good question Dottie. 'common good' could be defined as that which offers the most benefit for the most people - but ToJo would call that socialist or (*gasps*) communist.
    Paddles
    5th Aug 2014
    11:04pm
    maczee
    \
    One word answer to your question..........CHAOS or if you prefer.......UNWORKABLE.
    seadog
    5th Aug 2014
    5:45pm
    Dougie is quite correct. Lets wait and see. The last few years have been spend, spend, spend, and it does not matter that we have to pay it back some time. I think that Labour and the unions knew that they would not get back in so lets make it harder for the other lot. In fact if you hard core laborites were fair dinkum you would realise, and accept, that Paul Keating hit us all with a much harder basket of a budget some years ago but wait you cannot allow memory to happen when it is not good news from your side.
    Viv
    5th Aug 2014
    6:57pm
    Of course they will be the hardest hit. Welfare recipients are the biggest drain on our economy, I don't mean that in a derogatory way, it's just a fact. High income earners already work 5 months out of 12 to help pay for others welfare and the countries expenses, while paying their own way. Why should they have to pay more? They have spent the time and money being educated, they have taken the risks. Hit them any harder and they'll all pack up and go home. Where will the country be then? They pay our wages, they pay our welfare.
    Wstaton
    5th Aug 2014
    7:37pm
    I am trying to get my mind around the above statement. If someone is earning say $180,000 per year then the amount of tax equals about 30% before any reductions. This relates to 3.6 months of income. But wait we have to take into account deductions and you bet your bottom $ this will be many. I would not be surprised if this does not reduce this to a couple of months at the most.

    Now lets take education. This is virtually free in this country up to year 12. If you decide to pay for it then that your choice (or your parents). A lot of people do not have this choice so don't underhand denigrate them because they are receiving a state education.

    I cannot understand the bit about "they will pack up and go home" aren't these high earners Australian citizens or residents. Isn't Australia their home
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    8:24pm
    Easy - give everyone the same in come and the same tax.. confiscate everything else and let the state run it for you either directly or through privatisation.
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    8:28pm
    Viv - you sound like a Thatcherite through and through. Education is not and should not be a gateway to high incomes - there are countless people with degrees who work in a menial pen-pushing job, where a degree is nothing in reality to the work involved.

    The over-focus on education to the detriment of learning is one of the reasons this country is in dire straits - every one of the fools who have tried to run the show are 'educated' - they know ONLY what they have been told, not what they should have learned.

    Social security recipients and the lower paid spend twelve months income staying alive. If they are getting such a good deal - you are always welcome to swap places with them and get everything for nothing.

    Challenge is up......
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    8:31pm
    Perhaps another solution to your discussed 'welfare burden' is that the government compel every person on an income above a certain level employ one person directly and pay them out of that income.

    Two birds with one stone - you get a tax dodge for paying wages and the 'welfare burden' disappears overnight.
    Fready
    5th Aug 2014
    7:15pm
    I think based on what I have read above that the Government should abandon its budget and let things run as if Labor was still in power. They could call it Labor's Legacy. In 3 or 4 years the cuts would be so bad that there would be no hand outs of any kind. Get real.
    Bluey Quil
    5th Aug 2014
    7:52pm
    The budget has been very unfair to older Australians. There is no way that the current government should be trusted. They have proved that they can not be relied on and almost any statement they make lacks merit.
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    7:57pm
    Cheer Up !! You'll get $70,000 Pay Rise in October Pension Rise !!!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2014
    8:22pm
    $70k? Is that a core promise or a non-core one?
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    8:33pm
    I think I read that in a COMIC just Before the Last Victorious Election !!
    JOHN T
    5th Aug 2014
    8:03pm
    I hope all the liars in the Government are made to suffer at election time.
    All the stories about not reducing the pension is also shrouded by smoke and whistles
    If a couple CURRENTLY RECEIVE A PENSION OF $634.50 weekly and this is reduced to $577.00 it is a reduction of $57.50 per week no matter how the reduction is dis honestly removed
    This Government should be removed before it kills all chances of a sustained recovery.
    John (QLD)
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    8:39pm
    Bells & Whistles, Smoke & Mirrors.. Joe The Jester has Struck Again !!..
    Don't HOLD Your Breath nor Your Hand Out !!..
    ..Cigar Smoke Rings !!
    Kato
    5th Aug 2014
    9:34pm
    JOHN T - wish it was $577 per week. I have just gone on to the age pension and it is $577.00 per fortnight.
    nico
    5th Aug 2014
    9:36pm
    Shame that they have taken such a terrible stance on those who have served the country. The elderly will sink unfairness and now it is up to the opposition to gain strength and stand as a formidable foe. The poor will sink the tub with the kindest of splashes.
    particolor
    5th Aug 2014
    10:00pm
    I wish I had Driven My last Empty Train off the End of the Pier !!!
    carmencita
    6th Aug 2014
    12:17am
    I don't understand where Joe Hockey's concept of budgeting is coming from. He is also arrogant in pushing forward what has been already known of this proposed budget as penalising the poor. Repeatedly he is emphasising that it is the higher income household that is paying more taxes. He is forgetting that the economy is supported by consumers of which the majority are in the lower income brackets. These low-income people are spending their money at home in Australia while the rich are taking their money overseas. Also, there are many ways that the rich can avoid taxes because our tax system allows it.
    particolor
    6th Aug 2014
    2:42pm
    Exactly !!
    Not Senile Yet!
    6th Aug 2014
    2:44am
    What a lot of the Party Believers are about is feathering their own interests...if it is Liberal....then more tax lurks for the employer....if it is Labor.....then better wages & conditions for the worker!
    What neither of these Parties see is that either view is NOT good for the Economical Growth of our economy NOR are they in the best interests of the Country as a whole!
    Too high a wage causes inflation and limits Employers ability to compete and profit!
    Too low a wage might assist the Employer in competition and allow increased profit....but only if the worker has enough left to Spend!
    If inflation and tax deplete a workers income....it directly affects their ability to Purchase or Spend on the Employers' Products!
    The Left and the Right NEED each other and they NEED balance!
    Allowing the Parties to Dominate Government Policy making is what causes a gross imbalance and only adds to inflation which directly affects the Workers Buying Power!
    This is American Capitalism at Play....Greed is Good...be it Left or Right becomes irrelevant!
    We deserve better than out dated American or British Failed Policies.....we deserve a better and smarter system because we are capable of coming up with a better one!
    I note that every Anzac Day the Politicians Parade and pay respect to those who defended our Country in War......but I also note that those same Politicians choose to attack the survivors by decreasing their Pensions and Limiting Compo payouts!
    What a smug hypocritical Bunch our Poliies are.....because at the same time they have built themselves the BEST Parliament House and continue to give themselves ridiculous Pay Rises and Perks!
    I really do not admire anyone who votes for a Party Puppet....even when they believe that they are doing the right thing!
    Our Parliament System was not designed to accommodate these Vulturistic Party Machines.....it was designed to allow coalition governments.....formed to provide what is best for ALL as well as our Country! At present we only get self serving idiotic policies that serve the best interests of the Party Machines....and the Puppets are just well performed Prostitutes for Benefits.......really entertaining....but really poor results!
    Any successful business entrepreneur would not agree with screwing his workers into unsustainable wages...not because of profit or competition.....but because the turnover would become unsustainable and not cost effective!
    Neither the Left or the Right Wing Parties have been able to meet in the Middle in the Political Arena for over 30 years....either in the State or Federal Level and this is why the average voter gets caught up in the Party Debates over who is better or worse!
    Most misunderstand the Tax system simply because it has become far too complex!....even for business!
    Businesses need tax concessions to encourage investment.....yet in the same principle....our Governments do not apply the same policy to the workers tax system.....instead they penalise!
    Even the Pensioners are restricted on the amount they can earn whilst being a Pensioner!
    This is poor economic rational/policy.....restrictions on income....robs them of applying their well earned skills in a part-time or contract manner.....thus contribute and pay further taxes....which in turn might assist in subsidising their pensions.....as well as provide a 2 or 3 day part-time/contract position for others! These Old Age restrictive practices are of no-longer use to a Modern Economy.....as it changes and develops.....so must our Point of View in finding new and more relevant ways to sustain our desired view of retirement and methods of financing our Pension System.
    Copying others is a sure fire way of not allowing our Country to be independent and Smarter!
    America and it's Policies belong to them.....Just as Britain and other Countries Policies belong to their perceived way of life!
    We do not Need to Copy them......We need to pick out what would work for us and scrap what doesn't!
    Privatising everything is not the ONLY way to go!
    Government running everything is also NOT the only way to go!
    But just as the Banks are Regulated by the Government...so too should certain industries that directly affect our standard of Living....need to be regulated by the Government!
    Allowing Total Privatisation will only create a Little American Economy with all it's shortcomings!
    We can do Better!
    Bust first we nee to understand that giving our vote to a Party Machine before the even receive it.....is an absolute Corrupt Process that is a far worse crime than any Cue Jumping Assylum Seeking Boat Refugee! Pretending that when they get into Parliament they will look after your interests....when in fact they will just obey invisible Backroom Party Leaders is the most Corrupt Act a Parliament MP can undertake! It SMACKS of Fraud or False Representation!
    I find it hard to believe that the Ignorant Voter actually supports this as a fair system of electing an MP!
    We the people should stop Voting for Party Puppets!
    We the people should stop the Party Machines by not giving them our Votes immediately!
    Only vote for an Independent whose policies/beliefs you have an allegiance with!
    Exclude all Party Machines from our Parliament and force our MP's to negotiate a better and fairer system For ALL!
    Oldie87
    6th Aug 2014
    11:08am
    I would love to see a Parliament with Independents only. What a ripper. Jus imagine a House with Clives ruling. Like herding cats. Australia would be down the sinkhole quicker than you can say 'Jack Robinson". Duh.
    maxchugg
    6th Aug 2014
    8:43am
    Round and round the big wheel goes!
    Labor go into power, spend money like there's no tomorrow, then get thrown out when people begin to panic about an emerging financial crisis.
    Enter the Liberals. Go from budget deficit to budget surplus in nothing flat, causing all but the wealthy to hate them and eagerly await the next election when they can be thrown out.
    Labor comes back, the piggy bank is emptied and debts begin to mount, so back with the Libs.
    And while all of this is going on, as Kerry Packer made perfectly clear a number of years ago, paying tax remains optional for the big end of town regardless of which party is in power.
    Oldie87
    6th Aug 2014
    10:57am
    Correct maxchug, agree with you except Packer said that anyone paying more tax than the law stipulated ought to have his head read. Not that it is optional.
    Grumpy
    6th Aug 2014
    8:57am
    Oldie 81, if you care to look carefully at the full proposed resources rent tax, rather than the media "quick dip" version you would see that it had something for ,everyone and gave the nation and miners a just reward for natural resources. It also gave scope for the nation participating in mining investment risk in return for a share of any rewards, rather than the current governments's tired, worn out corporate welfare in grants and tax relief to poor, struggling, hard done by miners such as BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto.
    Look also at poliices for promoting renewable energy. In case you haven't noticed this is the next World growth industry. Germany with its apalling Winter's generates far more solar energy than Australia. It also has thousands employed in manufacturing solar equipment to meet its demands. cf Australia. Remove policies which might help renewable energy and revert to good 'ole coal. An Australian solar company went to California to tap into US capital markets for growth. It grew succesfully and was considering manufacturing in Australia......until Abbott removed the renewable energy target. The company the considered Abbott as not fair dinkum about renewable energy and decided not to return.
    I could go on forever with Abbott's repayment instalments to AMEC members (which could arguably be viewed as a form of corruption).
    Oldie81 , you are clearly quite happy for national interest decisions to be made by th Australian Mining and Exploration Companies lobby group, and for Ton' to go to lunch with them and receive his riding instructions.
    Oh, did I forget to mention forward looking policies such as education, health, disability etc?
    Oldie87
    6th Aug 2014
    11:04am
    Grumpy I'd love to have a good yarn with you over a glass of wine, but not on here. The space and time won't allow it. The RRT was a tax on so called super profits as I understand it. Rent on minerals are Royalties paid. But maybe I am wrong. If you refer to Solar in Germany you also have to bring in the appalling costs associated with. As ever, someone pays. BTW what is AMEC? Your last paragraph I won't go into.
    Wstaton
    6th Aug 2014
    11:29am
    Yes Oldie, the costs are appalling but one has to take into context that Germany and many other countries don't get much Sun so the amount of solar collectors have to be vastly more than we need in Australia due to it's abundance of sun.

    AGL is building a huge array in South Australia (A private company wouldn't do that if they didn't think they could make a profit.) Currently SA gets 21% of it energy from renewables. The South Australian government recons that they will be independent of coal fired generators in ten years.
    Grumpy
    6th Aug 2014
    9:14am
    Paddles, you appear to have swallowed the party line hook line and sinker. So much of the debate about illegal immigrants is a furphy and a deliberately emotional smoke screen. Whip up an emotional fervour and people (such as yourself) will rally to the masthead and stop looking at the real facts.
    Some real facts:
    -the majority of illegal boat arrivals (note the use of weasel phrases to avoid reality) are found to be genuine refugees.
    -an inconvenient one. If we speak of illegal immigrants, as you have, there are more illegal immigrants and overstayers coming in by plane with a backpack from USA, Canada, Britain, Europe generally etc. I don't hear you making any great fuss about them. Your only target is people who buy themselves an expensive, very dangerous passage to Australia. Think why they might do that. If as many assert they are simply (mostly Asian) economic refugees why wouldn't they simply come in as a backpacking tourist and lose themselves in the community once they arrive?
    I ask the question is the difference because they are Asian and not WASPs, not PLU?
    Paddles
    6th Aug 2014
    10:01pm
    Grumpy

    Much of what you say is correct but the underlying substance seems to have escaped you and I am not just talking about semantics but I would suggest that you ponder the following definition of "refugee"...........

    "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster".

    Now try to objectively apply that definition to the many people who travelled, by whatever means, to Indonesia and no doubt at considerable cost and then handed over a bucket of cash to a shady character who arranged for them to be accepted as passengers on a leaky boat to Australia.

    The minute that they entered Indonesia, they ceased to merit the definition of "refugee" as, whatever its failings, Indonesia represents to such people a safe haven.

    At that point they altered their status to that of economic immigrants who sought a better life and future in Australia, and why wouldn't they? Australia seems a Shangri La to most of the East so, I don't blame them for trying but I do not want them to succeed at the expense of the thousands of prospective LEGAL immigrants who have been waiting their turn in the displaced persons camps in South East Asia, in many cases, for years.

    To my mind, there is no question of racism here and your reference to WASP's is offensive. It is simply a matter of adherence to an established system of orderly entry into this country whereby our authorities have the opportunity to verify the bona fides of applicants. This begs the question of why many of the "boat people" deliberately destroy or abandon such documentation as may help us to properly assess them.

    Like you, I don't understand why, if they have documentation (which would also include an Australian visa) they don't simply fly in and then try to blend in as you suggest. Perhaps the application for, and issuance of, a visa is the problem. After all, that is the first point at which they would be required to state a plausible and acceptable reason for wanting to enter our country.

    I wonder how your stance can cope with the 157 Sri Lankans that set sail from an Indian Tamil community a few weeks ago. Allegedly, that group included some teenagers who were BORN in India so it is hard to imagine what fear they were fleeing and why they declined to be interviewed by Indian authorities.
    Dottie
    7th Aug 2014
    9:10am
    I agree with paddles, why take the dangerous and very expensive route by boat if they could just get a Visa and fly in? The simple answer is that they have something to hide. And don't say what about the children, what do they have to hide. Nothing but this is the results of the parents. How come we have so much drugs, gangs etc..
    Think about it! And again, not all the refugees are bad, far from it! But it is as with the rest, the good suffer with the bad! We have lot of regulations here, that is a burden for honest hard working people, but a few do the wrong thing and we all suffer!
    Grumpy
    6th Aug 2014
    9:44am
    Dottie, I will regard your comments on company taxation as a genuine reflection of your life experience, and not as an attempt at obfuscation.
    Your comments on what happens to money taken by a company proprietor is correct as far as it goes, however.........your comments ignore
    * Overseas company ownership. In such cases the excess of profits above tax becomes available for payment of dividends to shareholders who are mostly domiciled overseas. We are therefore subsidising the income of foreign shareholders. Most of our largest companies are now overseas owned or controlled.
    * Tax evasion by large overseas corporations through transfer pricing and other financial schemes. (Apple Australia's taxable income is a small proportion of what it should be because of prices charged by Apple in Ireland for supply of goods to Apple Australia. Ireland has a very benign tax system.) Another penalty awarded against Australians for foreign owners.
    * the extent of deductions allowed to companies in deriving their taxable income, deductions not available to individuals. Interest incurred by companies for lawful purposes is tax deductible. Do you get a deduction for your mortgage interest on your principal residence?
    * Many business expenses are GST free as the cost of GST is simply passed on to the customer. Individuals bear the brunt of GST. A free kick for business. Increasing GST will simply make individuals lives more difficult and increase the size of companies' free kick.
    On that basis Dottie I would be interested to hear your objective arguments in favour of the low taxation for companies and why that rate should be 15% lower than the average of the net rates paid by the heavy lifting middle income group individuals.
    Dottie
    6th Aug 2014
    4:41pm
    Maybe it is worth looking up what Australian companies who have gone oversees rake up! If we complain about investors here, then we should also complain by our investors overseas!. As for the deduction, if you sell your own house it's tax free. If you sell an investment property you pay tax. The amount can be different, it depend when it was build. The GST is a totally different matter, it is a tax for the consumer not the supplier. Image that Companies had to pay them! Prices would go to the roof. GST is a value added tax. I don't know about interest that is tax deductable, never heard of it! Maybe
    I missed something.
    What I also know, it is easy to complain but I would say. better the world, start with ourselves. How on earth can you make it right for so many people? It is impossible! And if somebody is clouding the issue I have to point out that I find your explanation not very clear! But maybe that is just me!
    Grumpy
    6th Aug 2014
    9:56am
    Brissiegirl and Frank, I will not even begin to destroy your assertions with the vast armoury of reasoned, objective argument available to do so. You are clearly welded on, blinkered, die hard LNP that such effort would be a waste of time.
    I will only say you are careful to avoid any reference to the "thug" bosses unions - business lobbies, Hamer Nicholl Society, business lunch clubs etc. Unlike Trade Unions, such groups are not regulated by any legislation and there is no requirement for any transparency in what they do. Bear in mind such groups are backed by control of massive amounts of capital, compared with trades unions which now only account for 21% of the total workforce. In terms of capacity for actual and/or potential industrial thuggery are you really trying to argue that trades unions can ever be a match for the combined (concealed) might of Business?
    Grumpy
    6th Aug 2014
    10:16am
    Grappler. I truly and sincerely salute you for your courage and tenacity which has got you through so much hardship!
    Until I retired I paid the top rate of personal tax for all but 2 years since arriving in Australia in 1973. My wife and I have no children and our only individual demands on the system has been 1 short hospital stay and PBS subsidies on a couple of medications for myself. For Joe (Khemlani) Hockey to then state that for us the age of entitlement is over is an absolute affront. My taxes have funded previous generations of pensioners. I have paid in for 30 years and drawn very little. Why am I not ENTITLED to government support when I qualify under current rules?
    I had a 30 year business career. What has Joe Hockey done? Finish Uni (subsidised by Federal funding) several years as a lawyer in a middle ranking firm (does not appear to have made partner) and then professional politician. He has 3 children and is doubtless drawing all the usual welfare payments for them, plus a contribution form the State for their education. Do we need to discuss the age of entitlement any further?
    Jen
    6th Aug 2014
    10:23am
    Dead right and well said, Grumpy. Joe Hockey is a great example of cradle to grave entitlement himself. Always a leaner, never a lifter.
    Wstaton
    6th Aug 2014
    11:36am
    His time at Uni certainly didn't teach him maths. His comments about how many months people working to support welfare was quite quickly refuted using simple maths.

    One person in this forum reckons that they were working 5 months. Straight maths for someone on 180k a year claiming no deductions it worked out to 3.6 months. Just think how much this would go down after the smart tax agents got into it.
    Grumpy
    6th Aug 2014
    10:24am
    Not senile yet, the most comprehensive and balanced comment yet! You have clearly identified the real issue which no politician will address....national interest ahead of partisan politics and personal gain.
    particolor
    6th Aug 2014
    9:36pm
    YOU HIRED THEM ??
    They put in their Resume's before the last election ! And if You didn't notice that they had Noses on them a Foot long like I did !! Well so be it !! Stiff Cheddar and Stop Whinging !!

    And just put up with a Room Full of Pinoccio's ...
    Dukki
    7th Aug 2014
    8:18am
    Yes I voted forvabbotn why because I didnt likevthevfsct that labour wuss spending recklessly , n send to be throwing mineym which we didn't hve around. However I didn't expect Hockey to screw me over either, as a pensioner I feel that he has nomieacwat it is to be on the pensions and hve it as the source of income, perhaps the independents will be a better option next time
    particolor
    9th Aug 2014
    4:49pm
    You wont know what Screwed is until this Lot is finished with You !!
    Grumpy
    7th Aug 2014
    8:21am
    Dottie, I will not respond to all of your comments for want of time. However you make one comment which sums up much of the debate. You say, guilelessly that GST is a consumer tax. Quite correct. What that comment hides is the question why consumers should pay a significant tax while business pays nothing.
    In the world of government a shift of 0.5% in the tax burden between taxpayer groups is viewed as significant. GST increased the tax burden of individuals by 1.5%. Given that in a balanced budget the sum of payments is equalled by the sum of receipts, then GST took 1.5% tax from business and imposed the change on individuals. Such a transfer can only mean a free kick for business.
    particolor
    9th Aug 2014
    4:52pm
    And a Six Pointer it was Too !! Right Between the Posts !! As Planned !!
    pixii
    7th Aug 2014
    8:09pm
    I am surprised there has been no comment /discussion on this site or any media coverage of an item in the Budget , which has prevented me and no doubt countless others , from claiming medical expenses in Tax return . This has been allowed previously , the $ amount changing from one year to next , but this change seems to eliminate nearly everyone who would lodge a Tax return with high out of pocket medical expenses
    particolor
    9th Aug 2014
    4:57pm
    Pixxi.. I think the only thing that hasn't changed is there is still no GST on GRUEL !!
    YET !!
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2014
    1:26pm
    Yes, quite correct. I have large amount of expenses but will not be able to claim anything.
    Pamiea
    9th Aug 2014
    12:07pm
    Joe Hockey should be hung and quartered as should all those not to wealthy voters out there that think the Liberals will help them - get real - they look after their own wealthy types and couldn't give a stuff about anyone else!!! I hope at the next election they are absolutely slaughtered which is what they deserve. Come on Mr Hockey - stop paying judges until they die, stop giving politicians any benefits at all once they retire, stop flying politicians in RAAF planes at a cost of $12,000 each if only two - now surely you don't think we think they are that precious because they aren't!! They are just humans with hopefully two legs and two arms and one head like the rest of us. Again get real!! Have a good look amongst all government departments - God my eight years in Government was an absolute shock and an insult to my intelligence as to what people get away with - clean up your own nests first and those that are waiting placement in jobs - give them four months to find something and then oust them!! I could give you a ton more tips if you would only listen you arrogant SOB together with Big Ears :(
    particolor
    9th Aug 2014
    5:16pm
    What an Invigorating Speech Pamiea.. I couldn't have done better !! I'm in a Foul Mood today after receiving My Utility Bills !! I had to check the Address on them to make sure they weren't for The Crown Casino ?? .. But even then the CEO's Hair would have stood up like Bart Simpson !! .. When they have Buggered the Show up in there and got turfed out by the Voters at the nearest Possible Election the should go on the Work for the Dole Programme and made to look for 40 jobs a Month !! They would have to look for a long time though as Who in their right mind would employ them ?? As their business would end up getting Exported like Gas and Coal and all the Best Food !!
    Anonymous
    10th Aug 2014
    1:25pm
    I am really looking forward to the next election and I hope it is soon. Cannot wait for Labor to be back at the helm and get us back into surplus.
    niemakawa
    10th Aug 2014
    7:41pm
    The budget is unfair in that the 2% debt levy should have been across the board. Other than that I agree with all the other measures.
    Fready
    11th Aug 2014
    6:02pm
    Radish, give us a break. When was the last time Labor had us in surplus.?? They simply hand it out to their socialist supporters and then leave it to the other lot to clean up their mess.
    Remember this: The Government cannot give to anybody anything that the Government does not first take from somebody else.
    When half the people get the idea that they do not have to contribute because the other half will take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of the Nation.
    niemakawa
    11th Aug 2014
    6:11pm
    Exactly. The Senate really has no option but to allow the budget measures to pass. Unfortunately Labor/Greens will never admit that they accumulated so much debt for this Nation. They live in fantasy land. Everyone has a part to play in the restoration of a surplus. It is a small price to pay for the sake of our Country.
    Not Senile Yet!
    12th Aug 2014
    12:29am
    The Budget is supposed to be about balancing the books...No?
    How can any Government consider that this Budget balances the books? It does not address the economy....it only addresses limiting the Governments liabilities to the elder Australians on limited incomes....ie puts the squeeze on them.....but does it help our economy...me thinks NOT!
    If any Government wants to limit it's liability with regard to the Baby boomers big expense with regard to Pensions....then they need to STOP limiting their ability to provide for themselves....ie restrictions on income via part-time employment!
    The provision to penalise someone for contributing by working...lie in the penalties for doing so.....ie. restricted to $130 per fortnight.....what a disgrace! If you allowed the older generation to work part-time and pay 20% tax without penalising them....most would! The 20% tax would subsidise their pension....win/win.
    The Governments of today need to increase their tax to offset the payments in Pensions.....not possible if you penalise the Pensioners from contributing by penalising them when they do!
    As for Freeloading......consider this.....the average Pensioner has paid for and built the New Parliament House in Canberra......something that is bigger and better than the Whitehouse in the USA......through their taxation!
    Remember....we only had 20million to tax.....America has that population in a most large cities in most states.....so they have a larger tax base to raise revenue from! We are tiny by comparison!
    Our Politicians keep raising their salaries whilst not having a Population base to justify it! No one has had a wage increase without a Productivity Increase.....well no one except Canberra Politicians that is.......but the real issue is why do we keep voting for the Puppets.....lying Puppets at that????
    As for having too many Independants.......Parliament is supposed to be about debating what is good for all.....not about rubber stamping what is good for the Left or the Right Wing Parties......The Party Machines are not debating anything....they are just implementing their Perceived View of What is good for them!!!!!
    Well you just got the Right Wing View.....are you happy????
    Were you happy with Labor's Left Wing View????
    Stop voting for these MORONS who cannot lead....they can only do what their Party Tells them to do!!!!
    Vote all the Puppets out...put in the Independants.....at least they will debate some of the issues.....who knows...maybe some may ask the real question.......is this going to be good for us Long Term???
    One thing is obvious...Neither the Left nor the Right....are prepared to do this.....and neither will the smaller Party members....because they are still Party Controlled.
    Vote the lot out!!! Vote Independent.....not because it will solve everything.....but because it will make the Left and Right come back to the Middle...to compromise on their hard line views....and run our Country FAIRLY FOR ALL!!!
    particolor
    13th Aug 2014
    8:51pm
    BRAVO !!


    Join YOURLifeChoices, it’s free

    • Receive our daily enewsletter
    • Enter competitions
    • Comment on articles