Turnbull defends latest NBN report

Let’s just build the NBN, not produce more reports.

Turnbull defends latest NBN report

The latest Coalition-commissioned report on the roll-out of the government’s version of the NBN has, predictably, sparked some lively debate.

Communications Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, has defended the cost-benefit analysis contained in the report, which reveals that, of the total $22 billion cost, almost 25 per cent or $5 billion, will be needed for the multi-technology mix model to deliver high speed internet to those living in non-commercial, rural and regional areas. But the report predicts that the benefits will only be a fraction of this amount.

Speaking on ABC radio, the Communications Minister conceded that this is a subsidy, but that the government and the nation can afford to subsidise the bush. Without such a subsidised roll out in non-metro areas, people in these areas would have “very poor telecommunications and that’s not acceptable in Australia. Access to telecommunications and broadband is a very, very, very fundamental need for people living in a modern society like Australia.’’

Opposition communications spokesman, Jason Clare, criticised the latest report, for being "not independent’’, claiming it was written by "people who hate the NBN’’ and who previously worked with Malcolm Turnbull. Jason Clare also said Australians would have "a second-rate Claytons’’ NBN under this government. Echoing the strong position of his predecessor, former Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy, he defended Labor’s FTTP (fibre-to-the-premises) alternative, which a previous expert panel and study had recommended.

The latest report on the Coalition Government’s NBN roll-out has also attracted strong criticism from Associate Professor, Kai Riemer, a digital technology expert at the University of Sydney Business School. He states that "the cost-benefit analysis favouring the government’s NBN model is deeply flawed. Whilst established business tools, such as cost-benefit analysis, can validly be applied to everyday technology, they fail when applied to game-changing technology such as the NBN. Because, while we can extrapolate the cost of building the NBN, the benefits it will unlock are fundamentally unknowable and unpredictable.”

Read more at TheGuardian.com

University of Sydney Business School

Opinion: No more NBN reports

Australia must lead the developed world in the production of ‘reports’ of every shape and size. We’ve been hard at it for as long as anyone can remember, so that the latest, dealing with the roll-out of the NBN, shouldn’t come as too great a surprise.

Nor should the criticism of it as soon as it has been released. As any pretence of bi-partnership between the Federal Government and the Opposition has all but evaporated, such a major and expensive piece of infrastructure will inevitably evoke very strong feelings on both sides of Parliament.

But what is more significant about this latest government commissioned, so-called independent analysis, is that perennial issue which has plagued Australia. When, in common with a handful of other countries, such as Canada, you have a considerable land mass sparsely populated, yet being a democratic society based on the fundamental commitment to equality, irrespective of where you live or work, then clearly the cost of supplying the essential services required by a modern society will be disproportionately high outside the main population centres. This was true in the days of telegraph, then the phone and, in fact all services, including mail and banking. And this is where the Communications Minister’s $5 billion ‘subsidy’ for the bush kicks in.

However, we are currently blessed with a ruthlessly ‘dry’ government, preaching at every opportunity the end of the age of entitlement and trumpeting cost-cutting in every government department and agency. Surely there can be no scope for such a massive ‘subsidy’ for the bush? Until we remind ourselves that this is a coalition government, dependent on those champions of all things rural, The Nationals.

The other illuminating response to this latest report on the NBN is the criticism of the core cost-benefit analysis it employs. When you have a digital expert from no less a source than the University of Sydney Business School, stating that established management tools, such as cost-benefit analysis, cannot be expected to work when applied to projects as massive as the NBN, the findings of the report are seriously undermined. But it stands to reason, given that the uncertainty of the quantifiable inputs or ‘costs’ and the now clearly established speed at which all aspects of digital technology are evolving, that no one can anyone accurately predict ’benefits’ of such game-changing infrastructure as the NBN.

What do you think? In the present climate of government cost-cutting, are you happy that $5 billion will be required to subsidise the NBN roll out to the bush? Are you concerned that we’ll end up with "a second rate Claytons’’ rather than a real, NBN? If it’s available to your home or place of work, have you connected to the NBN?





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    Oliva
    28th Aug 2014
    10:05am
    What a waste of The People's Money.Rather see a roll-out of transport infrastructure viz railways.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    10:30am
    Give it 20 years Olivia. Fibre optics is not about people downloading videos as Turnbull suggests but rather about the need of us all going forward, especially business and services.
    Kato
    28th Aug 2014
    10:56am
    Yes all our trading partners will have time based technology. we will still be equivalent to the dial up in twenty years time.
    Oliva
    28th Aug 2014
    11:27am
    With respect to others' views, I don't think every Australian should have to have access to quick and reliable internet, considering the cost. The vastness of this wonderful country and the isolated nature and sparse population of the Outback are against it. And don't mind the set-up costs, imagine the cost of maintaining and servicing this Monster. Anyway we are behind the times-5 years. Will be 20 years before we make it to the Black Stump.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    12:00pm
    Agree. The outback needs wireless maybe, not fibre as too expensive to justify.
    Wstaton
    28th Aug 2014
    12:23pm
    I agree Mick.

    I live in an area where I cannot get mobile yet I am less than 25km from two major regional centres (Latrobe Valley, Leongatha/ korumburra ) I get my internet through NBN sattelite which states 6mb down 1mb up I rarely if ever get this sometimes less than I used to get when I had dialup.

    To say we should not get faster speeds becuase of the costs would be like saying we should still be driving on dirt track roads because sealed ones cost to much for the bush.

    It is true that the current models cannot envisage the future benefits. I use my internet link mainly for business and whould be able to grow if the speeds were higher. Why should I leave the lovely country around me and move to a city join the ratrace (and expensive housing) just to get higher speeds. I suspect there are a lot of businesses who would expand if they were able to have higher speeds.

    I do not agree that fibre is to expensive to justify. It is for remote hamlets that is why they are putting in wireless for those areas. For regional areas where fibere connects regional towns that is different because fibre is justified for example going down the latrobe valley where it goes in a direct line (Warragul, Moe, Morwell, Traralgon, Sale, Bainesdale etc.) where there is significant population. Exacly why there is still a trainline going down there.
    Sceptic
    28th Aug 2014
    2:44pm
    Wstaton, okay about the dirt road simile that you use, but it doesn't mean that everybody should have a six lane highway to their front door.
    Sceptic
    28th Aug 2014
    2:44pm
    Wstaton, okay about the dirt road simile that you use, but it doesn't mean that everybody should have a six lane highway to their front door.
    Sceptic
    28th Aug 2014
    2:44pm
    Wstaton, okay about the dirt road simile that you use, but it doesn't mean that everybody should have a six lane highway to their front door.
    Kato
    28th Aug 2014
    2:45pm
    When we had analogue you could get reception out at Marble Bar and beyond.
    The new era of Digital was we were told going to make massive differences and prosperity to our lives.? and here we are some twenty years later still in reverse.
    Wstaton
    28th Aug 2014
    3:27pm
    Think, think Sceptic,

    Who said anything about fibre to the front door. All these towns are connected by a freeway not a freeway to every ones front door. Side roads do that. This is the libs concept. Super fast to towns and copper to the door capable of managing 50mips
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:33am
    You need to go back on to Dial Up Sceptic. You've forgotten sitting in front of your computer for a minute waiting, waiting and then waiting some more. And then how lond did it take to download a 1 Mb file?
    MacI
    29th Aug 2014
    9:17am
    Oliva. I agree with your comments. I think those who disagree with the more pragmatic approach by the current government are overstating the problem. While there is no doubt that Fibre-to-the-home is the superior technical solution Fibre-to-the-Node is still a good solution that leaves the way open to adapt to new technology to extend the speed into the home as it is developed or even run fibre from the node to the home if needed in the future. See a later post by me where I develop this argument further.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    3:21pm
    KCI: Please read the following..

    "British telco BT’s former chief technology officer Peter Cochrane told a UK House of Lords inquiry in March 2012 that a FTTN-style broadband is “one of the biggest mistakes humanity has made, it ties a knot in the cable in terms of bandwidth and it imposes huge unreliability risks.”

    You were saying?
    MacI
    29th Aug 2014
    6:22pm
    Mick. Me thinks that Mr Cochrane is given to hyperbole - "one of the biggest mistakes humanity has made"! As I have conceded FTTH is superior to FTTN. No doubt. If the FTTN solution precluded fibre being extended to the premises for those who need/want it now or in the future then I would concede that implementation of FTTN is foolish. Whether or not FTTN will prove to be penny-wise pound-foolish I guess we will find out in the long run. All I am saying is that the issue is overstated - certainly not one of the biggest mistakes humanity has made.
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    11:19am
    KCI: I do not know. Do you? Given that Cochrane was in the front line and is an (apparent) expert in his field are you going to believe him or politicians who seek to pervert the truth so that it fits what they want to do?
    This is why the latest report commissioned by Turnbull (from a British company not in th efield of telecommunications) is not worth the paper it is written on. I understand that Turnbull bypassed local experts so that the rpoert would say what he needed it to say rather than the true facts.
    Stof
    28th Aug 2014
    10:13am
    I started using the internet about 22 years ago when it was a text based system for geeks. I started off with 200meg of data. I now have to have unlimited and use up to 500g. I don't download movies I don't use twitter or Facebook. I am not a gamer. I use it for work, project management, and on the odd occasion for netfliks. How a report can predict what the future holds is beyond me. We don't know what we don't know!! Turnbull tried to explain Metadata and said in a supercilious way that Metadata does not include which websites are visited. He's the minister of communications and obviously got that wrong! He's a lawyer for heavens sake! Should stick to the courts and not other peoples territory!
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    10:32am
    The man wants to kill off the NBN but has little choice ...other than to butcher it and make us all pay again down the track. Welcome to business in Australia.
    MacI
    29th Aug 2014
    9:06am
    Stof. There is no way that you represent anywhere close to the typical domestic user. I'm on the internet for a number of hours daily. Like most people I use it for email, browsing, Facebook, News, and the odd YouTube. You are obviously using your internet for applications that are data intensive or you have a leak somewhere in your internet pipe. If fibre-to-the-home is a must have for you then you will still be able to purchase a fibre connection at a price. I don't think the typical user should effectively be subsidising your need for a faster connection which I suspect is for your business needs.
    Kathleen
    28th Aug 2014
    10:16am
    NBN is a vital component of future connectedness. Whether you live in the outback or in the middle of a big city every Australian should have access to quick and reliable internet connection. This government has interrupted the roll out and even tried to put in inferior piping. Five billion is a drop in the bucket compared to other national expenses. Maybe this government will eventually look to the big banks and corporations to fund the NBN and other national expenses. The mining companies should put more back into society and pick up the Aboriginal needs as they are the original owners of this country. People own the natural resources not a few billionaires.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    10:37am
    This government would love to destroy the NBN as with all other sound decisions from the previous government. Whilst the NBN has its critics the reality of life is that data needs year on year have been DOUBLING for many years and the trend is not yet over. So in 20 years time calculations show that we will need 1 million times the capacity we currently have. And we don't need the NBN?
    Turnbull and this government in general are vandals happy to destroy the future of the nation with their stupidity and illogical bias. Whilst Turnbull has now abandoned his moronic rehtoric about copper and wireless (lemons) he continues to suggest that fibre optic is about downloading videos when the reality is that the future of the nation lies with ever increasing bandwidth and file sizes. Society will eventually be working from the home office rather than going to the office. So when the nation has again failed we will fix this....at multiples of the cost of doing it once and doing it right.
    This so called report is from a UK based group which has no IT expertise was commissioned by Turnbull to arrive at the the result he wanted so that he could justify butchering the NBN. What a bunch of misfits this crew is. And what a total waste of more public money. Dare I use the word traitors?
    Stof
    28th Aug 2014
    10:40am
    These days web based infrastructure is as important or more so than railways or highways. I don't need a car, train or bus, if I can work from home as effectively, or more so, because I can work at any time and don't spend money or waste time commuting. The need to build more physical infrastructure will lessen, not increase with an effective NBN,
    Oliva
    28th Aug 2014
    11:29am
    Don't you believe it Stof. Ever been to China?
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    12:02pm
    You are looking at the future Stof. This is something that one term governments with their vested interests cannot do. You are right. This is where we are heading.
    Stof
    28th Aug 2014
    9:04pm
    What has China got to do with me telecommuting instead of driving my car? IMHO China needs telecommuting to get more cars off the road and lower pollution levels, as do we here in Australia!
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:30am
    Is CHina the biggest polluter on the planet?
    particolor
    29th Aug 2014
    6:35pm
    No !! Iceland is !!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    11:03am
    You are talking about volcanoes methinks. These things do not pollute 24 hours a day, every day of the year and year on year. But blow it up if you will. Chuckle.
    particolor
    30th Aug 2014
    11:38am
    Yes Mick but they take it in Turns and another one has Blown its Lid in Indonesia at the moment and Chucking out more Garbage than Man has ever made ??.. NEXT !!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    1:27pm
    Maybe do some snooping and see if you can get some guesstimates for man made pollution vs volcanoes. I am betting on mankind to win the pollution stakes. Wanna have a wager?
    Oliva
    30th Aug 2014
    8:54pm
    China is indeed a big polluter, they use a lot of coal. Remember- we ship them our coal so that they can make our kitchen sinks. We have become a warehouse economy, importing most everything because we've forgotten how to make it ourselves.
    particolor
    31st Aug 2014
    12:36pm
    We didn't forget how to make it at all !!! Our Government and Big Business SOLD US OUT OVERSEAS !!..
    Oliva
    31st Aug 2014
    2:05pm
    Stof telecommuting is old hat in China. They are way ahead of us. But that hasn't stopped them building massive transport infrastructure. I think they plan ahead.
    Oliva
    31st Aug 2014
    2:22pm
    Unfortunately our warehouse economy has put our manufacturing economy out of business. Yes particolor our dunce politicians have allowed that to happen. The global economy is not working to our benefit and our politicians don't even know that. We are a small country at the beck and call of our so-called powerful friends. I think we are getting the wrong end of the pineapple every time we do business on the World Stage. I saw comments recently, from some expert, about how our young people coming through the education system need to be educated to the top end of the employment/career spectrum, because ordinary menial jobs won't be available to them. Honestly who do we think we are?
    particolor
    31st Aug 2014
    5:52pm
    Start Breeding Einstein's !! AHH !! Too late !! I just looked around and we have LOST the Gene Pool !!
    Oliva
    31st Aug 2014
    7:10pm
    The Einsteins are coming out of Asia. We don't know how to breed Einsteins.
    Otdave
    28th Aug 2014
    10:56am
    when labor first decided on the NBN i was against it big time
    however since then i realized that we as a country must do something to improve tour internet. having done my own research on the NBN i believe that we should continue with Labor ideas because some time in the future we will have to connect to the house and according to the recent review we only save a small amount when we have a look at the broader picture. when we eventually connect to the houses we will have to pay a lot more that we are saving by connecting to the Nodes.i live in the Nowra area and we were programed to start the roll out in this area late 2013 and it has not started. what is the cost of the delay. i bet no one has calculated that figure. Mr Turnbull and Co please use your commonsense and do the right thing for Australia and ignore the party politics and roll out to the homes
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    12:03pm
    The danger Otdave is not the 'now' but the future. We cannot continue to be a backwater country who is always the last to move. I mean even Fiji has fibre#####
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    12:03pm
    The danger Otdave is not the 'now' but the future. We cannot continue to be a backwater country who is always the last to move. I mean even Fiji has fibre#####
    Sceptic
    28th Aug 2014
    2:47pm
    Move to Fiji then Mick.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:29am
    Bula.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:29am
    Vinaka.
    particolor
    30th Aug 2014
    11:42am
    Wheat Bix.
    Oliva
    31st Aug 2014
    2:46pm
    Fiji has fibre and Fiji has a massive tourist industry. Gosh little old Fiji can teach us a thing or two bout tourism?
    Tom Tank
    28th Aug 2014
    11:00am
    This strikes me as justification for the criticism levelled at the previous government.
    Given that we will have to rely on being an "intelligent community" and all our manufacturing industries either have been, or about to be shut, down we must do something to compete in this part of the world. Surely the best in communications is a must for us.
    It is somewhat contradictory that the government makes statements about research and science while frantically cutting finance to those areas. Is this same for the NBN?
    It is almost impossible to predict what the future holds in electronics, the internet and communications so are we going for a band aid job which will then need even more expense to fix in the future?
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    12:05pm
    Read my longer comment above Tom. The problem with m any Australians is that they cannot look forward. It is a bit like when the car was invented and I am sure that folk would have said that better to put money into more stables than those darn polluting things. Well maybe we should have?
    Oliva
    31st Aug 2014
    2:36pm
    An intelligent community does not shut down their manufacturing industries, does not shut down any of their industries, but rather keeps researching and finding new ones. We have unlimited resources to actually build our manufacturing industries but we choose to ship these resources to other countries so that they can build their manufacturing industries. Australia can be a power-house nation if it chooses to be. Everything including the solar power resource is on tap. Everything except the will, the vision, the government skills and an educated intelligent population. Woops?
    particolor
    31st Aug 2014
    6:04pm
    We still make things Here !! Our Government Knows how to turn Big Strong Factory Workers into Big Fat Beer Swilling Lounge Lizards !!..EER ! DUH ??
    Oliva
    31st Aug 2014
    7:17pm
    EER! DUH?? Big Fat Beer Swilling Lounge Lizards... on Welfare...so sad.
    btony
    28th Aug 2014
    11:25am
    It's like all electronic gadgetry,it's obsolete when you buy it, so the Half NBN will be too
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    12:07pm
    The NBN will not hit its strides for a few years.
    I heard an interesting comment last night which compared the normal model where there is a demand before something is built. The commentator said that if you build it business will adapt and use it to develop new technologies.
    Reeper
    28th Aug 2014
    11:50am
    How typical of this website, criticise the current government for something this websites masters introduced. The current government said years ago, the ALP NBN plan was a ridiculous waste of money, lacking future development, full of IR problems with its roll-out. Those who give the ALP credence and a vote are those totally responsible for this debacle.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    12:11pm
    You are missing the point Reeper and avoiding the facts. This government is not truthful and what it is doing is butchering what we will pay for again, many times over.
    Your dislike of the ALP ignores the issues which all point to the need to build the NBN. None of us want to pay but this is not a lifestyle choice, it is a necessity. Read my extended comment above so that you gain an understanding for some of the issues.
    KSS
    28th Aug 2014
    12:53pm
    Sorry Mick, for the majority of people the NBN IS a lifestyle choice. Whilst I support commercial centres having automatic access for 'business' reasons, I fail to see the need for every residential building to be 'wired'. If people want it, they can have it and pay for it - much like getting foxtel. Therefore bringing the NBN to a hub near you is enough. It's up to you after that.

    As for the $5b to include the Bush... absolutely spend the money. If there is ever a case for better communications it is for the Bush and those living in rural and remote locations with no access to schooling, healthcare, employment etc. Level the playing field there first before worrying about Mr Jones at number 48 who might want to download a movie a bit quicker.

    No doubt you are going to tell me how uninformed I am and that I need to get THE FACTS Mick. So do your worst!
    particolor
    28th Aug 2014
    12:55pm
    Jam Tins and String will do us Reep's ,wont it ??...
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    2:18pm
    KSS: You may be surprised that I partly agree with you. But do you think that it is fair for taxpayers to foot the NBN bill and businesses to get their connections for free is fair? If we are going down the road you advocate then ALL should have to pay for the connection into the property, not just residential customers, as this government intends doing.
    I have heard that Turnbull is talking about replacing the copper into the premises? If true then somebody please have him committed.
    Sadly you are talking the Liberal gibberish about 'downloading videos'. Whilst this consumes a huge amount of data THIS IS NOT WHAT THE NBN IS ABOUT. Short sighted people need to consider that in the near future files will get (much) larger, people will not go to a place of work (at least not 5 days a week) and services like medicine will be done over the internet. This is where short sighted governments like this one are a dead loss. They continue to talk about downloading videos. Give me a break.
    The problem with your comment KSS is that you are looking at the NOW rather than where we will be in 20 years time. Just look at the advances since 1970. It blows your socks off. And the next wave (of wearable devices) is almost upon us.
    Kato
    28th Aug 2014
    2:51pm
    Spot on Mick - All mining projects will be run from the main Cities and Overseas companies. we keep up or we suffer.
    Kato
    28th Aug 2014
    2:58pm
    How about the old crystal radio, could make a comeback.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:28am
    paticolor will be thrilled.
    particolor
    29th Aug 2014
    6:30pm
    You can still buy the Kit for them things at Jay Car !!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    11:01am
    Didn't that business go broke?
    particolor
    30th Aug 2014
    11:34am
    No !! We've got a Franchise here ?? I just got their latest Cattle Dog and get all My Electronics there !!
    Alexia_x
    28th Aug 2014
    1:13pm
    It will be a mess, like everything else the goverment "dis-organises"
    Stoker
    28th Aug 2014
    2:18pm
    It is a mess already, some folk are trying to clean it up, personally we disconnected landline phones and operate mobiles and wifi only and have done so for near 5 years now.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    2:20pm
    That saves a bit of money Stoker. But how do you get acceptable internet speeds with that? And what do you do when more users and larger files start using your wifi provider?
    Stoker
    28th Aug 2014
    3:35pm
    Hi Mick, the speed for both of us is quite OK, and that has been during times between Cairns and south of Hobart, admittedly only west of a line with Dubbo and cnxn with Telstra. Bad load?? probably about 30 minutes after school closes, but otherwise very rarely.
    MarLin
    28th Aug 2014
    2:40pm
    We understandably all have different opinions and political leanings - and rarely, if ever, has a project so polarised the Australian community as NBN, for obvious reasons. But having read all the above comments - I have to agree with KSS who, in my opinion, hits the nails exactly on the head: NBN is a business necessity for many, but a lifestyle choice for the majority. And just because someone chooses to live "out bush" doesn't mean they shouldn't have access to the same services as city-dwellers, at least where reasonable economics allow. In my opinion, Telstra's domestic antecedent Telecom Australia had the mix right then, and it's still right now: cable for the cities, and a mix of economically viable wireless and satellite technologies for the bush. Let's face it, today's wireless is far superior to yesterday's cable, and I'd fully expect continued technological advances to maintain that progress.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    5:09pm
    Like many folk you fail to look to the future linhmartin. Technology is moving so fast, and still accelerating, that we cannot build something like the NBN for today. Otherwise it will end up like computers....you buy one and 12 months later it is useless.
    I own the same computer I bought 5 years ago because I bought a the most hardware i could get for a cheap price with everybody telling me I was wasting money. I now have the last laugh as the same people are now onto their third machine because they failed to see the very clear trend. And the market has now only just caught up to my machine. So it will be with fibre optic. And taxpayers will AGAIN pick up the cost for the imbeciles we put into office. Welcome to Australia.
    MarLin
    28th Aug 2014
    6:17pm
    Well I'm suitably chastened that I don't have your gift of seeing into the future, Mick. You keep talking ad nauseum about installing an NBN for the future, yet no-one knows what that future holds and, most importantly, the technology that we'll be using in future is not available yet (in fact most of it hasn't even been thought of, except in very general terms) - so it's difficult for my feeble brain to understand what point you're really trying to make on this particular thread!
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:27am
    Your sentiments are those of a caveman linhmartin. Do a bit of work and have a look at the technologies out there (under development) and what has been happening with connectivity in even the last 5 years, as well as the file size growth. Not rocket science.
    MarLin
    29th Aug 2014
    7:39pm
    Rather than trade puerile insults with you, mick - I suggest you read some of KCI's comments on this thread. The fact is that fibre to the node can be extended to the home - NOW if someone is happy to pay for it, or in the future if needed (and if the provider is happy to pay - noting that the provider won't be the government). You're pontificating all over the place as though MTM/FTTN is the end of the world - maybe you believe too much of what you read, like that British politician you quote from two years ago (an eon in technology terms)!
    MarLin
    29th Aug 2014
    7:54pm
    Oops, my apologies - that was allegedly BT's former CTO you quoted, mick, not a British politician (although with his penchant for hyperbole, he'd probably make a good one...).
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    11:00am
    You are stating the precise reason why Turnbull should have used a local firm in his latest report....so that the real facts were established, whichever way they fell. This government intended the latest report to do no more than justify its intention of butchering the NBN. Comments from local experts appear to indicate that the Labor model was sound, unlike what we now have: plenty of rhetoric, uncertainty and the concern that we will pay again down the track. My guess is that we will.
    MarLin
    30th Aug 2014
    12:35pm
    "Local experts appear to indicate...", "Your guess...". Is all that uncertainty the basis for pushing your views onto virtually everyone's post on this thread? You've already admitted on a different post that you "can't make a judgement [on this matter]", so there's no point in debating this topic any further, is there?
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    1:37pm
    It looks like you have a barrow to push. My statements are tempered by what is currently available and what is around the corner. You want a gilt edged guarantee and offer nothing other than trolling linhmartin.
    If you have an answer then put it up. If you have nothing then why bother. From what I have seen you have nothing and that in itself says a lot mate.
    I stand by the content of my posts: fibre is the only technology we have to choose from and that local experts who are not politically or financially motivated need to be consulted. This is where we differ. I wonder why.
    MarLin
    30th Aug 2014
    3:58pm
    See my brief, and last, comment against your latest post below.
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    4:40pm
    Ditto.
    Young
    28th Aug 2014
    2:57pm
    I use wifi.Fast enough for me.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    5:09pm
    Fine for the moment.
    particolor
    29th Aug 2014
    6:33pm
    I've got ADSL and its as Fast as Lightning !! I haven't had a problem in over a Year now ??.. But Telstra Needs a Good Looking At for its Prices !!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    10:53am
    ADSL is not bad. Not great but acceptable. But wait and see what happens when file sizes become much larger, when business begins to conduct work via the web and when our population grows. I'd love to know how ADSL works then.
    Paddles
    28th Aug 2014
    3:54pm
    David Fallick

    As usual, you have diligently researched this topic and came up with some individuals or entities that are trenchantly critical of Turnbull and his moves. Do you think that you could find a little more time to find an opposite point of view?
    You even have the gall to quote Jason Clare who has written his name indelibly in the shame file of this nation by fronting, along with the vacuous Kate Lundy, that appalling press conference that declared there is a major doping problem in Australian sport that has a connection to organised crime etc. etc. thereby creating 18 months of turmoil for a bunch of footie players. Hardly a quotable authority on his track record.
    Whilst I wish you and your readers a long life, I doubt that it will be long enough to witness another debacle of the proportions of Labor's efforts with the NBN which, by the time it is completed, will be near obsolescent.
    Yes the NBN (or Not Bloody Needed as some wag put it) is available (sort of) in my town of Kiama and everyone whom I know who has connected is, at best non-committal about it and, at worst, deeply disappointed in it.
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    5:12pm
    Stick with the facts and the science Paddles, not the political claptrap. You need to look 20 years ahead (not that far really!!) to get a proper view and then you need to look at where society is headed. I know...it takes vision.
    Paddles
    28th Aug 2014
    10:57pm
    mick

    I suspect that it takes more vision than you or I are capable of to visualise where such technology may be in twenty years time.
    If you doubt that then try to cast your mind BACK twenty years when the then new you-beaut mobile phone was the size of a bloody house brick, weighed as much too and needed a satchel to carry it around in. A very different item to the current "smart phones' which seem to reach their passe date at least once a year.
    I think that that is a reasonable bench mark of the pace and extent of technological progress, so I'll stand by my opinion of the inherent obsolescence factor in the NBN plans.
    As for your dismissal of the political connotations of such matters, you should reflect on the fact that these decisions on the expenditure of vast sums of PUBLIC money are made by politicians who have varying levels of intellect, integrity and ability to do the best thing for us all. I stand by my criticism of the worth of the man quoted in this artcle.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:24am
    Whilst I agree with your sentiments we'd still be in the stone age if we did not take the technological steps which have gotten us to where we are now.
    Imagine the woe for projects like the (over capacity) Warragamba dam or indeed the Pacific Highway when it was first constructed. There would have been people who feel like yourelf saying 'waste of public money' at the time these were constructed. But now we all understand that they were a necessity, not a whim from the idiots we often elect.
    We do need the NBN and you are right that none of us can exactly see the future. I normally do a fairly good job with that one and can see some of the projects lining up. Lets have the conversation in 20 years if we are still kicking Paddles.
    particolor
    31st Aug 2014
    6:15pm
    "Dick Tracey to Paddles !! Come in Chief !!"
    Not Senile Yet!
    28th Aug 2014
    3:59pm
    If they cannot afford to pay a reasonable Pension Rate and retain the discounted benefits for Older Australians...(Currently proposed to cut back even further to save money).then they cannot afford an NBN nor can they afford 60 Billion worth of Planes from the USA!!!
    Both Parties tell us we need to cut back...tighten our belts...pay more taxes (Fuel,Carbon, GST) ....yet when it comes to Spending our Tax.....Both the Big Parties are spending up BIG on what they want! Not what the people want!!! Hell NO!!!!
    It is all about NBN's, Parliament MP's wage increases well above CPI, Increased expenditure on Defence (Who the hell is attacking??) whilst removing assistance from the Car Industries (By invisible trade agreements) which in turn is costing jobs.
    But if a cannot afford to pay your pensioners or unemployed an amount that is equal to the Poverty line.....meaning you have to cut it to below it.....and cannot afford to subsidize training to assist people to gain employment......What the??????
    Tired of the To & Fro from Left to Right and the total waste of taxpayers money!!!!!!
    Won't be voting either party back in!!!!!
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    5:40pm
    Whilst I sympathise society has to keep moving or we will be left behind.
    Stof
    28th Aug 2014
    9:01pm
    I have to politely disagree with you, pensioners will be big users of the NBN when they realise that they won't have to go to the shops or to a movie and be able to have an HIGH DEFINITION conversation with the grand kids and remain connected. It will help with loneliness. TV streaming and sites like Netfliks will be used much more.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    7:18am
    People are short sighted and will look back and wonder how we could have progressed without fibre optic. But just like all steps forward the benefits will justify the cost.
    The cost of NBN pales into insignificance when compared to the anuual bill which taxpayers foot to keep those who choose not to work.
    biddi
    28th Aug 2014
    4:44pm
    (Musicveg : answered your comment from 26 Aug Ice Bucket Challenge. Biddi.)
    Off-topic - sorry folks! :)
    Rosscoe
    28th Aug 2014
    4:50pm
    Of course we need to spend $5 billion dollars on the bush! I'm just sick of Turnbull being the court jester in the House of Representatives. He's the Minister of communications - and he should do his job! Give Australians decent broadband - ALL AUSTRALIANS! I live in Mawson Lakes, SA, and we haven't even got a post office!
    Stoker
    28th Aug 2014
    5:15pm
    Of course that would have to be Abbott's fault that you aint got a post office, did Mawson Lakes open last week as a town???
    MICK
    28th Aug 2014
    5:41pm
    The Bush is always a problem when it comes to justifying cost.
    particolor
    28th Aug 2014
    7:15pm
    Rename it Tony's Lakes !! You'll have a Post Office next week !!
    grandma
    28th Aug 2014
    7:27pm
    It's about time the NBN was delivered to the satellite users, at the moment we have a service that is constantly breaking down, not good enough rural/regional users are always disadvantaged.
    Stof
    28th Aug 2014
    8:55pm
    The point about the NBN is that it shouldn't be a political football. The libs had to do something different and be seen to be saving money, but we all know that they are going to spend the money anyway. It's like the Perth Northern freeway being designed with 2 lanes and 5 years later because everyone started to use it, they spent as much as the original project to cope with the traffic increase.
    The NBN will be the same. As soon as people realise the power of fast communications, the take up will be exponential!
    doggone
    28th Aug 2014
    10:58pm
    it seems the fate of the nbn is doomed.
    all those in goverment have no real idea of its value now and INTO THE FUTURE.
    golly the old fogeys in the government still probably only have a [artyline phone.

    it is amazing that the future of the nbn is in the hands of people who are not really computer savvy.
    Oliva
    31st Aug 2014
    2:56pm
    Yes awful isn't it. And would they even consider going to a Course to learn about it? Hell no. They have a Mandate to waste The People's Money when and how they choose.
    gordoweb
    28th Aug 2014
    11:08pm
    My belief and fear is that our regional neighbours will not settle for second-best, "good enough" telecommunication systems. We are undeniably part of Asia, arguably the most competitive region (or potentially so) on the planet. In the not too distant future, Australia will be trying to hold its own against our near neighbours, these sleeping giant tigers. If we are saddled with a second-rate, "almost good-enough" telecommunication system, it will not serve us well.

    Witness our history and see that we have come from carrier pigeon and pony express to space flight and deep-space communication in less than two centuries. I cannot believe that this rapid development was well served by a "she'll do" attitude, and I doubt that our near neighbours will either.

    For many years we let the railways fall into disrepair, and now we pay the price by using hundreds of trucks and cars to move what one railway train can move, and no doubt could do so just as quickly, had the development of railways been as heavily funded as the development of roads, and were trucking companies expected to really pay for their infrastructure.

    I am not trying to say that there is no place for trucks and cars in a transport system, nor for alternatives to fibre-to-the premises (FTTP) in a communications system (as others have eloquently pointed out).

    I do, however, feel that fibre-to-the-node (FTTN) as a general solution, will be found to be woefully inadequate in future years. It will not meet the requirements of a rapidly urbanising and ageing population, businesses facing intense competition (and hopefully) important partnerships with our trading partners, nor governments charged with keeping abreast of a rapid changes in our society.

    To think of analogous scenarios (such as water to the well, vis-a-vis the home or office; electricity to the utility-pole, such as in caravan parks, or; gas to the corner canister) is laughable. We are in grave danger of repeating the chequered history of our railways (3+ rail gauges?) by implementing FTTN as a general solution to our future communication system requirements.

    Already many potential uses for a high-speed FTTP broadband solution have been extolled. To install a less than optimum solution for today's issues without appraising our future needs is a hand-to-mouth approach that cannot serve us well. Future generations may well shake their heads and say "What were they thinking"!

    Australia has a history of being innovative when faced with knotty problems. We should now be looking backwards, before looking forwards, in an endeavour to learn from the now laughable mistakes of some of our early leaders. Especially when now we are armed with a history of 150 years of rapid evolution. Industrially, mechanically, electrically, electronically, in medicine, science, communications, etc, etc. The stakes are too high for another "break-of-gauge" fiasco.
    Oliva
    30th Aug 2014
    8:43pm
    Thanks gordoweb. I am now a little better informed.
    MarLin
    29th Aug 2014
    12:52am
    Rather than waste time speculating about the pros and cons of various NBN options, can I suggest a visit to the whirlpool online forum where you will see that many technical experts discussing the same thing are in varying levels of disagreement (google something like "lifespan of fibre optic cable" and it should get you there). The discussion is particularly illuminating in terms of issues affecting the lifespan (real or imagined) of fibre optic cable. My take-out is that whatever is being laid now is only "temporary" in the bigger scheme of things, so all is not yet lost and we would perhaps be better served worrying about things like the government's proposed changes to pension entitlements. Oops - I forgot - we're not entitled to anything, anymore, are we?
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    3:26pm
    If society followed your path linhmartin then we'd still be driving around in horse and buggy aparatus. I cannot believ that anyone cannot see that the Information Age (the internet) is anything other than enlightening.
    Mobile phones may also be temporary as wearable devices are already in an advanced stage of development. Do you own a mobile phone?
    MarLin
    29th Aug 2014
    7:48pm
    Yes I do. I also own a wearable device - several of them, in fact. And I spent 23 years working in telecommunications including the office of the future, so I can tell you with some authority that you've overlooked something else that's only temporary - optical fibre! I'm surprised with your obvious ability to see into the future (or so you keep telling us, anyway) that you can carry on the way you are without acknowledging that we may not even be using optical fibre (and hence FTTN, FTTH, FTTP or FTT anywhere else) in 20 years time! As I said earlier, read some of KCI's posts on this thread - it might help you understand the bigger picture.
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    10:49am
    I am not aware of anything beyond fibre optic. Waiting for a technology which may never arrive is not a solution?
    Copper has served mankind well for over a century and we could not have progressed without it. Fibre optics will serve us for the next century. In the absence of a viable alternative what other options do we have?
    I look forward to hearing from you about how we can avoid fibre optics given that the copper network is all but dead.
    MarLin
    30th Aug 2014
    12:54pm
    Just because you're not aware of anything beyond optical fibre, mick, doesn't mean there isn't going to be anything. To quote your own analogy, there was nothing beyond the horse and buggy until the motor car came along, was there? And you won't hear from me about how we can avoid fibre optics because I'm not proposing that we ever do - but what the researchers are doing right now is examining ways of extending the use of optical fibre. Research vDSL and extended wavelengths and it might give you a glimpse of that future you keep telling us about... In the meantime, I think you would do well to recognise that the coalition NBN does not mean FTTN full stop. The fibre rollout can (and reportedly will) be extended to the premises (FTTP/FTTH) where necessary and/or desired, provided someone pays of course! So it's difficult to understand where your argument lies, other than obviously doing your best to rubbish Turnbull and the coalition government - which I fully support (as much as I would also rubbish the prior Labor gov't) but don't push on this thread because we're supposed to be talking about NBN. But we've already seen by your posting almost every time someone says something, that you're not going to go away until we all bow down and admit you're right and we're all wrong. I'm afraid you're on your own now mick, as I've got more useful things to do than listen to continuously recycled claptrap!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    1:51pm
    "...doesn't mean there isn't going to be anything". Seriously, are you kidding linhmartin? So when Bell invented the phone you would have been standing there saying that we should not empbrace it because of something (non existent) better?
    If you think that copper is going to deliver the goods in 20 years time then good luck.
    You then start on FTTH being put in "where necessary". Correct. To business premises only. So the public pays for the NBN and then again for business and then again for itself???? Yeah right.
    If I rubbish the current government it is BECAUSE OF THEIR DISHONESTY AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO ORDINARY AUSTRALIANS. Sorry if that offends you.
    Claptrap my friend belongs to your uninformed posts: few facts, no ideas, no forward looking ability and unable to see the world other than through your rose coloured glasses.
    I am sorry if I am a bit like a rotweiler. Guilty + too much time on my hands. But as I have said before: offer a logical argument, stick to the facts and offer sound suggestions and I'll give you respect.
    MarLin
    30th Aug 2014
    3:59pm
    See my brief, and last, comment against your latest post below.
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    4:39pm
    Realy, why bother. Not worth the bytes it is written with.
    Simo
    29th Aug 2014
    6:53am
    I agree the TERM = N B N - Not Bloody Needed is correct the old Copper Service we have is still quite good { a bit slow at times} but Hey!, who remembers the Story of the HARE & the TURTLE, the Turtle was slow but it won the Race!!! I watched the Fiber Cables laid into our Street and it appeared to done in a very dis-organised manner, and now I am advised we are ready for the N B N but I do not think so as there is nothing at out House yet and the Cable just went past our Telstra Connection Footpath Pit makes omne think who knows what around this place, or are we one of Malcom's mates amd get Fiber / Copper connections , I am at a loss , as I did not see any technicians splicing the Fiber to the Copper in our Street ????? I believe it would have been Cheaper to go WIFI & the Government simply put up more Sataleights so Malccom, as te Song says - GET YOUR HAND Off IT !!!!!
    MacI
    29th Aug 2014
    8:15am
    Having worked in the IT/Data Communications industry all of my life there has always been a tension between the 'Techos' and the 'Bean Counters'. The Techos almost invariably want to implement the latest technology even although it may be an overkill. For this reason the Bean Counters rightly are highly suspicious of the Techos. In the end it is often a compromise and if wisdom prevails the compromise will be one that hedges both ways, i.e. a system that is affordable that can adapt to changing circumstances and new technology.

    While there is no doubt that fibre to the home will deliver much better performance in terms of transmission speed than fibre-to-the-node there are many other factors in determining the actual performance of an internet connection. For example, most people use a wireless router to distribute the connection to devices in the home at speeds ranging from 11Mbps to 54Mbps. So what if fibre-to-the-home can deliver at speeds up to 1000Mbps if there is a bottleneck in the home that restricts the connection speed to 11Mbps. I think that fibre-to-the-node will deliver adequate performance to households for many years to come but if I am wrong then technically it will not be difficult to extent the fibre from the node to the home. Also, based on past experience new technologies developed in the future may provide cheaper alternatives for delivering higher speed internet into the home.

    In any case any household that wants fibre-to-the-home will be able to pay for the connection.
    Abby
    29th Aug 2014
    10:58am
    Well said KCI

    I just wish they would stop debating it and get on with the job so that I can get connected.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    3:20pm
    I just got this:

    "British telco BT’s former chief technology officer Peter Cochrane told a UK House of Lords inquiry in March 2012 that a FTTN-style broadband is “one of the biggest mistakes humanity has made, it ties a knot in the cable in terms of bandwidth and it imposes huge unreliability risks.”

    Thanks you Malculm Turnbull. So this is what the Liberal Party considers good government: costing the nation huge amounts of (wasted) money by detroying what was properly set up and implemented by th eprevious government.
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    3:27pm
    Somebody fix that gut's spelling!! Where's particolor???
    particolor
    29th Aug 2014
    6:41pm
    Yer Spilling is Deeplourable !!
    particolor
    29th Aug 2014
    6:44pm
    I'm still trying to find out what Exponential means ???
    MarLin
    29th Aug 2014
    8:02pm
    Peter Cochrane for PM - he's clearly got the right qualifications, such as making mountains out of molehills (I believe it was Benjamin Disraeli who once said "It's fashionable for governments to invent crises"). The "knot" he refers to is the point where fibre ends and copper begins (at the moment). But he conveniently overlooks the fact that fibre can be extended beyond that point whenever necessary - as in the Coalition's "poor man's NBN", where the multi-technology mix allows FTTN and FTTP/FTTH, as well as satellite, wireless, etc (and who knows what else in the future?). Then again, his quote is nearly two and a half years old - and that's not far removed from the Dark Ages in technology terms...
    MICK
    29th Aug 2014
    10:19pm
    I cannot make a judgement as thios is the stuff of experts. But a warning needs to be headed lest it costs us ALL another $100 billion. Not pocket money.
    As I said before: do it once and do it right. Labor looks like they did their homework whilst this current government are buffoons, elected with lies, slogans and media bias. I'll err on the side of doing the job well...not butchering it and asking long suffering taxpayers to pay a second time.
    What thinks you particolor? Oh..."exponential"...e to the power of x. This is a mathematical function which describes things like population increase, change in temperature as you change altitude, cooling of objects and so many other natural phenomena that it would rock your socks. I can see you scratching the skull cap.
    MarLin
    30th Aug 2014
    12:33am
    I think your first sentence summarises the situation nicely, mick - NBN is indeed "the stuff of experts". But I have to take issue with your comment about Labor having done their homework - surely you read the recent expose about KRudd approving NBN Mark II in just a few days? (and anyone proposing to lay fibre from Sydney to Alice Springs must surely have been reading the wrong homework books!). I hate to resort to politicking, but my personal view is that the mad monk, smokin' Joe et al support the big end of town and don't give a damn for anyone else, whereas KRudd, Juliar et al profess to care for the "little people" and possibly do so - but they are/were so spectacularly inept that they just kept wasting our money on poorly managed projects! At least after the dust settles we'll have some sort of national broadband network - and that's a much better position than we're in at the moment... (I think)!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    10:15am
    Whilst laying fibre to the bush cannot be justified from any economical perspective putting it into the coastal areas where nearly all of the population lives is a must. If we fail to make the call now then we will, as usual, be paying a second time and be lagging the rest of the world. This is how Australia normally operates and its says a lot about our big business and leaders that there is no real vision. Having said that Labor had the vision. As has been said many times ordinary people would have no superannuation, universal health care or any other benefit if the Liberal Party had any say about it. Watching Abbott and his cronies try to dismantle every good act the previous 2 governments did is a testamony to what we now have: lars and misfits who seek to destroy, not build.
    We could talk al day about Labor's "inept" government. But you also need to be very very careful that you do not mimic this government and the media which put it into office as this so called ineptness, with the exception of issues like Boat People forcing their way into the nation and social security handouts, does not exist.
    I can hear you limbering up abou the apparent "debt" Labor left linhmartin..... Sorry to cut you off at the pass but if that is your basis in debunking the previous government then you are dead WRONG. This was one of Tony Abbott's election lies which he used in the absence of the media reporting the truth. I am happy to lay out the facts if you want to confont them.....which many people who hold the notion that Labor was a bad manager do not want to hear.
    If you believe that Labor simply wasted taxpayer money then have a closer look at the current government. Both are guilty of what you say but this government has not only wasted money already spent but it now engages large numbers of reports which say what it wants so that it is justified in desptroying all that the previous government did. So is the wealth of a nation a plaything for government to destroy as they please?
    MarLin
    30th Aug 2014
    12:59pm
    See my comments further up the chain, mick - you're obviously going to carry on pushing your views until we all admit you're right and we're wrong. Sorry, you won't hear that from me because you've made it clear you know little or nothing about technology and are simply here to rubbish the coalition gov't - which I would support because they're no better (or worse) than the prior Labor gov't. And no, you won't hear me talking about Labor debt, so don't stretch your self-proclaimed ability to see into the future beyond its limited boundaries!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    1:55pm
    See my response further up the chain too. I am putting forward what logic dictates and sticking to what facts are available to me. You are not. End of story.
    MarLin
    30th Aug 2014
    4:01pm
    Who's logic? Only yours, I'm afraid - certainly not mine. And why do you persist in putting everyone down just because we don't agree with you? Get a life, mick - I'm outta here!
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    4:38pm
    Logic is by nature not the property of any one person. It is either correct or incorrect. Your first line says it all!!
    You seek to make this personal by accusing me of putting people down. I hope that this is not what I do as I seek only to argue cases with THE FACTS and ON THEIR MERIT. You sir clearly are looking for an easy out by trying to put labels on me.
    I agree with your comment about 'getting a life' as I spend all too much time on this site. But then I'd like to think that people appreciate information because the media distorts and hides so many of the (inconvenient) facts it does not want you to see.
    As I keep saying: stick to the facts. Something you clearly have no stomach for.
    jaybee
    29th Aug 2014
    10:54pm
    We are rapidly moving into the 3rd generation of information systems for many as yet unforeseen information requirements. Looking backwards and extrapolating requirements based on 2nd generation information systems and requirements will be more expensive in the long run and shows a lack of understanding on future information demands.
    Unfortunately, it reinforces the fact that this current government is a government for the 20th century, not the 21st century. It would be a huge step forward if the party replaced their backward looking leaders with forward looking ones.
    MICK
    30th Aug 2014
    10:17am
    Abbott destroyed on his way into the job and is still destroying any good which came from the previous government. We are all paying for this and Australians, if they comprehend what this government has done, will rue the day they were conned into putting it into office.
    particolor
    30th Aug 2014
    4:56pm
    And the Day of Rooing is being Enjoyed by All !!!
    Oliva
    30th Aug 2014
    9:02pm
    Yes indeed jaybee!

    30th Aug 2014
    6:46am
    I dont expect to see NBN connected to my home in my life time and I expect new technology will have overtaken it anyway.

    And it is also in all probability going to be more costly to have it on but there will be no choice.
    particolor
    30th Aug 2014
    4:58pm
    Radish It will be an Implant in Yer Head and 666 Stamped on Yer Forehead !!!
    AlbertC
    31st Aug 2014
    6:52am
    turncoat turnbull is just a stooge for Abbott . must do what master wants shudder /
    geomac
    31st Aug 2014
    2:10pm
    The Turnbull or more correctly Abbott broadband is like saying :
    It's like arguing that it's more cost-effective to a build a single-lane Sydney Harbour Bridge, while conveniently ignoring the fact that it won't meet our future needs. It's a short-sighted approach which looks good in a spreadsheet but is designed to win a political argument rather than meet the future needs of the country.

    Comparing the cost of fibre-to-the-node to fibre-to-the-premises overlooks a few key issues which seriously impact on the value proposition;

    maintaining the copper network
    fixing copper black spots
    upgrading and maintaining the HFC network
    extending the fibre network later to meet growing demand

    http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/gadgets-on-the-go/government-lowballing-us-on-secondrate-nbn-20140829-109vvg.html
    Jurassicgeek
    1st Sep 2014
    11:01am
    no Olivia .....the waste is not doing it properly in the first place..instead we a locked into a never ending procession of reports and studies...this is the waste...Turnbull needs a rough end of a pineapple up his arse....maybe then he will listen to the people..
    Oliva
    1st Sep 2014
    7:56pm
    And those politically favoured advisers that pollies love to hide behind are very well paid for those reports that we don't need. It is a shocking waste of The People's Money but do they care? No not a bit.
    Supernan
    3rd Sep 2014
    4:53pm
    Fibre to the node would be ok - except that there is a great shortage of nodes. None available in our area.
    My local Politician - member of current government acknowledge that this area with need at lead 70 new nodes just to meet backlog of current demands. Same in most outlying areas & We're only 60 minute from brisbane centre.
    professori_au
    3rd Sep 2014
    11:32pm
    I live in Geelong. Telecommunications has so many black spots that it is a disgrace for a city as large as Geelong. I work as an advocate and nearly everywhere you cannot get through.
    If I was considering investment in Geelong as a businessman I would be concerned about the potential effect it would have on my business.
    TV reception, similar to the telecommunications. Most channels are pixelated. Those that come through with the exception of a couple of ABC and SBN are advertising products (not my interest) or sports (again not my interest. If this government was interested in providing services to the Australian public then these are some of the areas where money should be invested. Being somewhat disenchanted with how this present government is operating by tearing down any services to the middle/low income sections while providing benefits for the rich I do not hold any hope that this will be remedied


    Join YOURLifeChoices, it’s free

    • Receive our daily enewsletter
    • Enter competitions
    • Comment on articles