Clean power to the people

National Divestment Day saw many Australians moving money from companies which profit from fossil fuels.

Clean power to the people

Many Australians are speaking up for climate change – with their wallets. A decision by the Australian National University (ANU) to cease investments in fossil fuels has provided a spark for Australians to challenge government policy on energy. And it’s ‘clean power’ they seem to want.

The National Divestment Day, which took place over the weekend, saw many Australians marching and switching their investments to banks and institutions which invest in renewable energy programs, calling into question the Abbott government's 'pro-coal' stance. Mr Abbott's response to this? "[They are] Stupid. Coal is good for humanity."

The Abbott Government has reduced existing climate change policy, by repealing the emissions trading scheme and defunding the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, leaving it unable to support any new projects. Our emissions trading scheme was once hailed as template legislation for the world to follow. Carbon emissions, which came down under the carbon tax scheme, are rising again. 

The divestment movement shows the use of wallets as weapons. Organisations such as churches, universities and businesses are also moving their money out of companies which profit from fossil fuels.

Australians aren’t the only ones to speak up against fossil fuel investments. The Global Divest-Invest coalition in the US has approached some 650 individuals and 180 institutions, in a bid to get them to reinvest fossil fuel assets into renewable energy over the next five years. The heirs of the Rockefeller family, who have made their vast fortune in oil, have pledged to divest more than $56 million from fossil fuel investments to reinvest in clean energy.

Read more about National Divestment Day.

Opinion: Hit ‘em where it hurts

It's great to see a return to the ideals of the past, where the people are reclaiming the power to change the way a government does its business. The government is supposed to be looking out for the best interests of its people, after all. So when the people speak – and they are saying they want climate policy to be a priority – and the government does the opposite of what their constituents want, the best course of action is to hit 'em where it hurts – their wallet. (which ironically enough, is filled with our money.)

Mr Abbott's policies on climate change and renewable energy programs show that he's mainly looking out for the rich. He's looking out for big business. He's trying to make it as inexpensive as possible for his crony capitalist supporters to make even more money. He has slashed funding for education and health. He’s even having a go at pensions. It’s difficult to imagine the future which Mr Abbott envisages.

The National Divestment Day is a thing of beauty, which reminds me of the ‘power to the people’ sentiment of the 60s. How do we make corporations and governments listen? Take away their money. It is a powerful and clever protest action, which speaks volumes for the good people of this country. The war on IS, illegal immigration, refugees, religious and racial differences – these things are polarising subjects which matter a little less when we have a common cause – to save ourselves from extinction.

What do you think? Would you switch your accounts to a bank which supports renewable energy programs? Do you know if your investments, such as super, are working towards a cleaner future? Is the future of the planet important to you?





    COMMENTS

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    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    10:41am
    I'm Sticking with Our Dearly Loved Leader and His Clean Coal Stance thank You !!..
    I cannot be Swayed by Windy things and Sun Beams !!.
    Ill remain faithful till I Choke !!
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    11:02am
    It's alright for you particolor you are probably getting on in years but what about all the young ones and the as yet unborn, what sort of a future do you want them to have?, time to look further afield then our own pockets and comfortable lifestyle and think of the future generations and the sort of world we would like them to live in.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    11:11am
    I'm well on My way by the looks, to a Position in the Born to Rule Party !! .
    I've already got someone to believe My Lies !! ..
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    11:16am
    So does that mean no one can believe anything you comment on here particolor?, WHY BOTHER TO COMMENT IF THAT IS THE CASE.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    11:26am
    Looks like it ?? They told Me Id get a FREE Bag of Coal for Christmas if I joined !!
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    11:43am
    There you go , lying again.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    12:32pm
    You have got to be joking particolor. There is not such thing as clean coal. This is yet another lie from this reprehensible government which is protecting its benefactors in the coal industry from the green onslaught. I can't wait to see the obvious responses from government trolls Solomon and Frank who will write the normal propaganda text they are paid to produce.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    2:23pm
    Mick.. I have been Eagerly Awaiting their Arrivals !! I feel like a Good Debate today !! And have noticed You are in Fine Fettle Too ??..Good Luck.
    Speaking of which.. They got the Bloody Numbers Wrong again on Saturday Night !! GRRR!!
    Hasbeen
    20th Oct 2014
    4:08pm
    Poor deluded souls, sucked in by the green conmen, who couldn't lie straight in bed.

    Just look at the picture of a couple of silly windmills & the accompanying "SMOKE" stacks.

    They can't even tell the truth there, but have to photo the picture. Power house stacks are cooling towers. What comes out of them is pure white steam. If they have to lie about something so simple, & pretend it is smoke, how on earth can you people be stupid enough to believe anything else they say?
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    4:22pm
    paticolor: if in doubt pick 1,2,3,4,5,6,7. They've never come out so the probability is with you Luke......

    Hasbeen: the only poor deluded soul is you mate. Get your facts straight. Use the internet and do some research and 'the truth will set you free...........". Smokin!!
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    4:25pm
    You are close to the truth particolor. I've been doing some serious construction around the house so in the mood to lock horns with the trolls. I'd love a better discussion but these folk only ever hit the website with slogans so the going is a bit slow. Yawn..... Wake me up for drinks.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    8:42pm
    Bloody Hell !! What's Next ?? Now He's going to RAISE the Price of OUR domestic Gas to Meet His Buddies Overseas Export Price ?? Does any other Country do this ?
    Foxy
    20th Oct 2014
    8:48pm
    ...arrives on the scene unexpectedly - drinks? Sure! Champagne cocktail - good ole' Aussie Beer - Golden Dream? < (since you are asleep....) :-)
    Foxy
    20th Oct 2014
    8:50pm
    ...decides to "shout" particolor a drink also (for his fabulous ongoing humour) - mind you - could be expensive?
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    9:00pm
    what sort of a Ponzi Scheme is that ?? They wouldn't buy it at Half the price we pay Domestically Now !! They would tell us to Stick it !!..,,
    I think I had a Night Mare Foxy ? I'm Ok now ! I'll have that Drink even though I don't Drink !! Thanks !!
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    9:13pm
    Then the Cheezy Guyser said not to have a Knee Trembler Reaction to it and change to Electricity as it is Still Cheap ???
    Who would Change anyhow ? Electricity is price of Rat Sack too !!
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    9:22pm
    PS.. I don't use Gas ! Just cheering up those Poor Folk that do ! I Use a Small camp stove in a Black out, which is often lately, and it uses a small tin of gas about 2 Bucks at Coles !!..
    ghoti
    20th Oct 2014
    10:42am
    If Mr Abbott thinks National Divestment Day activists are stupid then they must be doing something right! One could argue that, on balance, the good that coal has wrought since the Industrial Revolution has outweighed the bad. But that was then. We are now in a position to start phasing out coal as a major source of energy - but not with Mr Abbott in charge. He needs to step out of the way as more and more people put their money where their mouths are.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    10:59am
    China said our Coal was dirty and needed Scrubbing ??
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    12:34pm
    Do you not understand that this government is made up of political prostitutes who do the bidding of their owners.....including the coal industry....for whose interests it repealed the Carbon Tax which was NEVER the cause of high electricity prices as claimed.
    Adrianus
    20th Oct 2014
    1:03pm
    Well then mick you wouldn't be against a doubling of the GST with that logic?
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    1:55pm
    Well what a Dutch Oven this Country has turned into ??
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    1:59pm
    Frank: doubling the GST is the cry of necessity from your boss Tony Abbott. If Abbott did not give away $8 billion a year by repealing the Carbon Tax, did not give away who knows how much by repealing the Mining Tax, did not give away who knows how much by cutting the already low taxes on business by another 1.5% and the rest then why would one need to double the GST? Oh yes....the high spending previous government WHICH NEVER REMOVED THE BORROWING CELING like your Liberal Party government has done.
    Please keep on Frank. There surely is no more room in your mouth as both feet are already there.
    Tell the community how much this government is paying you!
    buby
    21st Oct 2014
    7:06am
    I'M STUNNed particolor. china wouldn't notice the difference. I mean they have so much dirt over and they sending it back to us.
    We don't want their crap......We got enough of it here if we wanted it REALLY!!!
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    10:57am
    I think the future of this planet should be important to everyone and as those with the power to change things don't seem to want to know about, I think it is up to PEOPLE POWER now to do something about before it is too late.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    11:34am
    Yep !!! Look what People Power did last time ??
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    12:15pm
    What's that supposed to mean particolor?.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2014
    12:22pm
    Like what Misty?
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    12:36pm
    Thank you Misty. You are on the money. And to answer Ductape: VOTE OUT THIS BUNCH OF MISFITS and demand that renewables are put back on the table. We all know they have to come so lets not let a bunch of coal executives dictate what is to become of the planet.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2014
    12:40pm
    Mick - it'll never work son. Not in my lifetime anyhow.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2014
    12:42pm
    And Mick....read bemused below. They are on the money for the most part.
    Aussiefrog
    20th Oct 2014
    1:45pm
    Totally agree Misty, unfortunately most people only look at their own interests and don't give a hoot for the future of their children and grand children.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    2:47pm
    Ductape: you can stick your finger in the dyke but you cannot stop the inevitable flood. Think about it, seriously: 7 billion pairs of feet on the planet and much more coming; third world industrialising (and therefore polluting). Something has to give mate. Even recalcitrant coal and oil barons with their bought political servants cannot stop change. And if they do refuse eventually average people will ignore the propaganda rags and act with their ballot cards.
    Do you really believe that this is all going away because the financial interests of a handful of people want it to?
    Stoker
    20th Oct 2014
    11:12am
    Weird aren't they, all those claiming to love renewable energy. Seem to recall the massive protests by the greens over the Hydro in Tas wanting to build a dam on the Gordon below Franklin, they were successful and the dam was stopped.
    Just imagine, had it been built Tas would be selling clean power to Victoria, instead because of dumb greenies we are buying coal fired power from Vic.
    Hear tell Barnaby Loice is planning on a number of dams around Aust, that will be good for agriculture and no doubt some power for some areas BUT the greens will probably stop them.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    11:53am
    Why ?? They could grow Acres and Acres of Date Palms with all that water !!
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2014
    12:27pm
    Well that'll certainly be welcomed by some sections of our future community particolor.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    12:34pm
    Future ?? You don't get out much do You ??
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    12:38pm
    Whilst you make a valid point Stoker you need to keep in mind that this was a choice between flooding some magnificent country or clean energy. I am not too sure the same result would happen today.
    Blossom
    20th Oct 2014
    12:38pm
    Particolor, Does Aust. eat enough dates to warrant that? Better to use it for Every Day food crops instead of importing them. How many trees have died on orchards because of such dire water restrictions or the fruit been so dry and inedible? Some were even watered with drippers or similar, not irrigation from which so much evaporates.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2014
    12:48pm
    Yeah - I get your point particolor - but it was towards a particular kind of future I was referring to. Try to keep up mate
    Adrianus
    20th Oct 2014
    3:45pm
    Hate to spoil your conversation here people. BUT, Tasmania is a big exporter of electricity to Victoria. Hydro Electricity is one of Tasmania's big Industries.
    The odd thing that I don't understand, and perhaps it explains why they do so poorly economically? They export at around $0.40 per unit and then import at $0.48. Yes that's right they buy it back off Victoria. I can never understand Green Economics.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    4:27pm
    Do Tasmanians really have 6 fingers?
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    4:59pm
    Sending things SOUTH always costs You more in the long run Frank !! As the Whole of Australia will find out Soon Enough !!

    20th Oct 2014
    11:58am
    Wheres the proof their is climate change nothing has been proved to me that the weather is any different to what was occuring 50 years ago
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    12:12pm
    It had to be replaced by Something ?? Since Rubbery Figures disappeared from the Television !!
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    12:17pm
    What are you taking or smoking particolor?, nothing you say makes any sense today.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2014
    12:25pm
    Ah Misty! I think particolor simply went into the fog - and missed!
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    12:44pm
    Here's the canary in the coal (sic) mine ROBO:

    http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    Have a look at the graph around 1950 and compare with the last 600,000 years. Then think about the fact that 97% of scientists (the ones not being paid by coal, oil and gas money) agree on climate change.
    The trouble with many people ROBO is that they expect the temperatures to never go down on their cycle upwards but that is a nonsense as you only have to look at change of seasons to see that nature does not work that way.
    Also saw an interesting Catalyst last week where it was stated that much of the energy was being absorbed in the oceans but that this would be released in the not too distant future...with some pretty dramatic effects.
    Don't be the 'lobster' in the pot mate. Things are changing and it is not like it was despite the vested interests trying to stop change.
    Aussiefrog
    20th Oct 2014
    1:49pm
    Particolor what are you smoking? Damn good stuff I want some! Lol
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    1:54pm
    Aussiefrog maybe we all should have some and then we wouldn't have a worry in the world and wouldn't have to make comments on blogs like this.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    2:13pm
    Dunno ?? I got it a Bankstown last time I was in Sydney !!
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    5:20pm
    I grew up in the Bankstown area particolor but too frightened to go there these days. Call me homophobic if you like. You should grow your own.....??
    wally
    21st Oct 2014
    11:48am
    The climate alarmists are at it again. If what they say is true about the sea level rising, I would reserve judgement on that until I see low lying island nations lie the Maldives being permanently swamped and submerged by the surrounding ocean. Oyster farmers whose crops of oysters depend on uniform year in year out water depth report no change in the sea level that would adversely affect their oysters. Have any landmarks and islands in our (or anyone else's) coastal cities shown any measureable change in the sea level over the last century? I would like to see recgonizable proof of change, and not rely on the squawkings of the "Chicken Littles" of the world as led by Al Gore.
    I agree that human greed is responsible for the wholesale destruction of rainforest habitats in Indonesia, Brazil and other places. We are on the sidelines and can do little to influence events in overseas countries except make our disapproval known, and most likely, ignored. The indecent haste we have seen in Australia to rush into coal seam gas exploration and extraction (with uncertain consequences for tho people and environment) is something we can influence more directly through making our disapproval felt. I also agree that we, as people, need to recognize the need to use what resources we have more efficiently and effectively. We can all use less electricity, gas and water around our homes and not suffer unduly in doing so. Government should be pressured into building more dams to harvest water for use during the dry years instead of letting it flow through to the oceans and benefitting no one. If you don't like coal, then bite the bullet and start building nuclear power plants. Intelligently placed in stable geological situations would preclude Fukushima style disasters and the elimination of human error would prevent Chernobyl disasters from recurring. If , as our green cohort demands that we save the future for future generations we should get rid of coal and go nuclear. Wind turbines do not work when the wind does not blow and solar energy is, as currently employed, only marginally economical to use for the generation of electricity. As far as 97 % of the world's scientists believing in man made climate change, might I remind you that in the 15th Century 99.99999% of the world's scientists would tell us that the Earth is flat. So much for so much of scientific opinion based on fiddled facts and soothsayer predictions. Even James Lovelock, proposer of the Gaia theory so beloved by the Chicken Little school of ecological thought recanted and admitted he was wrong. of
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    5:37pm
    I realise that you are a lost cause wally. No worries. But stand back and understand that the earth is a complex system of actions and reactions and that 'change' is not measured in years but probably decades or centuries. The irony is that when the doubters like you realise that something has to be done it will not be a 10 years fix.
    Your bit about electricity ignores the fact that 10% of electricity in Queensland is renewables and the coal industry is worried. Enter Tiny Abbott and his bunch of cutthroats. Fixed! Abbott has managed to put renewables close to out of business...but he will lose this argument in the longer term.
    One of the things I continually confront is older people who live in the past and are totally unable to confront the future. Better to ignore the problem, claim that it is BS and stick one's head in the ground. It saddens me wally.
    wally
    22nd Oct 2014
    2:12pm
    Hi mick. your most recent post here appears to contain 10 % fact and the rest is what I'd call wishful thinking in the hope that events will prove you are right. You, along with the 97% of scientists you say believe we have caused the climate change are just so many bleating sheep. The reason so many scientists, including the ones in the CSIRO push the global warming/climate change furphy is because the powers that be in government will penalize those who do not follow the party line will not get money in the form of government research grants. You will always get people's interest (and government funding) by claiming that the climate is changing and "we" know how to fix it. Universities dependent on government grants to meet operating costs will likewise tow the party line and crack down on those scientists and professors in their employ that dissent from the party line. So the Climate change scare becomes both a "sacred cow" and a "cash cow" and the taxpayers are funding the lot, either directly or indirectly. So as long as the ocean has not submerged the low lying Maldive Islands due to sea level rise, I will remain a "Climate Heretic" and refuse to be taken in by the Climate Change Children's Crusade.
    MICK
    26th Oct 2014
    2:46pm
    The only fiction wally is your 'beliefs'...which defy the science. I'll stick with the (professional) scientists, not the coal funded charlatans any day.
    Its easy to dismiss the research and the growing number of voices telling pollies to do something. Sadly, like your point of view, the system is set up to only fix something once it has collapsed in a heap. Really helpful!
    So you are now attacking the science community because they have a job???? Really...how coal industry you sound. So teachers are now not teaching students so that they keep their jobs, police are not arresting criminals so that they keep their jobs, etc., etc...... Sad mate.
    Just out of interest sake are you taking money from coal funding to write the indefensible or are you just unable to accept that things are happening which mat spiral out of control? I am beginning to wonder as you simply dismiss everything as one big conspiracy.
    wally
    29th Oct 2014
    12:04pm
    mick, so why are the scientists (97% of them as you say) following the unbalanced and overblown claims about the much chattered about impending climate disaster? Maybe some shut up to keep their jobs. Maybe they tick the "Yes" box. Or maybe they clamber aboard the Climate Change Gravy Train in hope that the more fuss they make in their direst predictions, they will gain greater financial reward. (Sort of like one Dr. Flannery, the fossil digging climate change spruiker and one time mouthpiece darling of the Chicken Little disaster alarmists). Where has he gone? Sorry to disappoint you, mick, but I don't get anything from the Coal or mining people for poking holes in your climatic hysterical views, (which is so much fun!) any more than I think you are in the pay of the solar and wind power people. The only practical replacement for coal power has been around for decades and that is nuclear generated electricity. Of course the hysteria mongers of the greenie persuasion would fall about foaming at their mouths at the very thought of Australia (thanks to their squawkings and the moral cowardice shown by successive governments) have made Australia the Laughing stock of the developed world.
    The Reason why Al Gore pushed so hard on global warming was because he thought he would make a financial "killing" on the carbon credit exchange market, and Kevin Rudd thought he'd do the same using Therese's money as a springboard for their hoped for bonanza. But when saner heads prevailed and the carbon trading scheme failed to get off the ground, Al Gore left the stage. He probably uses his time to polish his Oscar in his palatial Oceanside mansion these days.
    miss aisle
    20th Oct 2014
    12:03pm
    According to Professor Ian Plimer -
    The volcanic ash emitted into the earth's atmosphere in just FOUR days,
    by that volcano in Iceland,
    has totally erased EVERY SINGLE effort we have made to reduce the evil beast - carbon.
    AND, there are 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any oe time,
    EVERY DAY.
    Also, the bushfire season -
    across western USA & Australia alone,
    will negate our efforts to reduce carbon in our world -
    for the next 2 to 3 years, & it happens EVERY YEAR !

    The previous govt. thought it appropriate to impose a carbon tax on us -
    on the basis of the bogus "HUMAN CAUSED" climate change scenario.
    Of course, it's good to do our bit to help & I'll keep on doing it, BUT
    Let's keep this in perspective !
    Blossom
    20th Oct 2014
    12:50pm
    We have already kept our CFS busy the last few days.
    Some farmers do responsible burn offs to get rid of short dry grass to prevent the spread of bushfire if one occurs. In one area in SA they had bad bushfire which lasted a month by the time it spread over huge areas and caused horrid destruction. (What's more a lot had no insurance at all). Some want to do a controlled burn-off to reduce fuel load after slashing dry grass down but when it rained and they knew it wouldn't burn quick enough to not just smoulder and in between times there has been strong winds.
    Adrianus
    20th Oct 2014
    1:10pm
    I agree miss aisle! That puts it into perspective.
    A tax on Australians will only hurt our economy and it will not have any effect on the climate.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    1:49pm
    Ill have You know that all that Money they collected was going straight to the Great Climate God above !!.. Thank You Earthlings !!
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    1:55pm
    This is again sounding like a government post. Your assertion about volcano emissions being much more than human activity appears to be dead wrong. But why does that not surprise me? Why does that not surprise me? Have a look at the following:

    http://news.discovery.com/earth/weather-extreme-events/volcanoes-co2-people-emissions-climate-110627.htm

    The first sentence reads "Human activities emit roughly 135 times as much climate-warming carbon dioxide as volcanoes each year." Read the rest!!

    Can you please explain why you are using the Liberal Party 'bad Carbon Tax' rhetoric which is one of the lies of convenience from this disreputable government? The only real winner out of the Carbon Tax repeal were the coal, oil and gas producers which now get another $8 billion a year FROM TAXPAYERS. The truth is that the Carbon Tax was having zilch effect on most of us, that we were all compensated (tax free threshold moved from $6000 to $18000 for one thing) and that the lie of "high electricity process" was...well, a blatant demonstrable and blatant political lie.
    Your post has nothing to do with "perspective". Rather everything to do with the facts as opposed to government spin.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    2:05pm
    Mick.. I also was on a Website that said the Volcanic activity underground at the Poles Was Warming the Earth and releasing Huge amounts of Carbon Dioxide from the Perma Frost in the Earths Crust !! Look it up !.. Tax That !! Vulcan will be pleased !!
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    2:49pm
    miss aisle I hope you are not using gas?, if so any Carbon Tax repeal savings will be wiped out as gas is going up about $500.00 a year I just heard, to bring Australia in line with world markets.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    3:37pm
    And Politicians pay is going up in line with the Sultan of Brunei's !!..
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    4:35pm
    particolor: Had a look at the following website:

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/131118-antarctica-volcano-earthquakes-erupt-sea-level-rise-science/

    I picked out the following and stopped reading:

    "This volcanic complex has been operating for millions of years ... There have been past eruptions of this system and the ice has survived for millions of years, [so] future eruptions alone will not cause the ice sheet to fail."

    Hope that puts it into perspective.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    4:47pm
    I read and seen all that stuff Mick !! We live on an Unpredictable Planet that has had Climate Change for Billions of Years and will Continue to have for Many more !! And Tax or Man wont stop it !!..
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    5:17pm
    Mick.. This Planet isn't all that Fussy what it does !! Whether we Live or Die !! Volcano's don't care where they rear their Ugly heads Either !! They Burn Vast Coal fields in a single move !! Go to ...Google.....Volcanic Burning of Vast Coal Fields By Siberian Traps.. That's Natures Contribution of Pollution for You !!..
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    5:20pm
    PS.. I wonder if the Then Pre Historic Greens Protested ??
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    5:27pm
    Whilst I agree with all that you say particolor I have to point out that mankind is not like a one hit wonder. Mankind is a constant attack on the planet and whilst nature can absorb punishment I am not sure at what stage we tinker so much that we trigger something which wipes up all out.
    I always think back to rabbit plagues. These used to occur when there was an abundance of feed. Then they bred to unsustainable numbers, at which time they ate out everything and were killed off when their immediate environment could no longer sustain them.
    Mankind is affecting the planet on a much wider scale. We are tinkering with every resource on the land, in the oceans and in the atmosphere. Just like the rabbit plague I have to wonder if we will go too far and ruin the game. This is what intelligent beings do?
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    5:53pm
    I've still got that on a VHS Tape somewhere ?? Akubra Hats everywhere !!.
    Settle Down Mick I'm on Your Side ..I just like Stirring when it gets Dull !! .
    I'm very down on that GREEDY Factory Ship Fishing !! And Many other Abominations !!
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    10:15am
    I get a bit carried away sometimes.
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    5:42pm
    particolor: have a look at the graph at the following link. This is NSAS data so not easily refuted, even by trolls:

    http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    So what is different between the last 60 years and the past 600,000 years? Answer: CO2 has gone ballistic. Whilst there may still be arguments as to the effect of all this CO2 your argument about climate change over billions of years does not tell a compelling tale of 'she'll be right' innuendo. Cheers.
    wally
    22nd Oct 2014
    2:21pm
    Gee Mick. Do you think Professor Ian Plimer is a government troll too? As far as "Trolling" is concerned, you don't do a bad job of that yourself! As some of us do, I hasten to add. I do agree that people should exercise restraint in their way of making a living and not over do things like over fishing, logging or wasting resources (like water). But taxes and increased costs as a means of controlling consumption wind up hurting those who can least afford it.
    MICK
    26th Oct 2014
    2:50pm
    So now you attack the messenger wally. A bit like I am attacked as a Labor Party troll for sticking up for the lies which pass as fact on this site. But I also condemn both sides of politics and have not voted Labor or Liberal for decades.
    A pity you are changing the subject wally. I have presented one all but infallible evidence link..........which you dismiss. Your 'opinion' or whatever it is you are doing here is not worth a real lot wally and it appears to me that you are not acting alone.
    Bemused
    20th Oct 2014
    12:11pm
    I do not favour one party over another. politicians are all as bad as each other, but this forum is blatantly left leaning with all the irrationality of the fanatical.

    The burning of Coal, Coal Gas, Oil and indeed any fossil fuels, is all bad for the atmosphere and the Planet, no question about it. They all involve the rapid release of elements captured and stored over a vast period of time.

    Having said that, worldwide, between 35% and 38% of coal is used for power generation.
    In Australia, we use 44% for power generation.
    The rest is used to provide Coke for Iron, Steel and other mineral smelting and manufacture, the Coal gas that is recovered from Coal is used widely in industries requiring energy for furnaces, such as cement, brick and tile manufacture, together with many other industries requiring heat and lots of it. Coal tar is used widely in the manufacture of road surfacing materials, plastics, medicinal and cosmetic products.
    Oil is very essential for Automotive, Aviation and Marine Fuels. It is also the basis for the major part of synthetic fabrics and a large part of the plastics upon which our modern society depends.
    Without fossil fuels, industry, as we know it, cannot exist.
    Without Industry as we know it. the current population levels we have, cannot be sustained.
    There are no viable, large scale alternatives in the offing for any of the fossil fuels.
    The manufacture of Solar Cells and the necessary supporting structures depends on Plastics and Metals processing.
    Wind Generators and Ocean Wave Energy Generators are enormously energy hungry to build and to maintain.
    To operate an Aluminium Smelter such as the one at Gladstone, Qld, would require a solar array in excess of 50 square Klms, and because they only work in daylight and even then is highly variable and would require enormous Accumulators (Batteries) and inverters. So cost intensive that Aluminium would become an unaffordable product. That would be a problem for the manufacture of Solar arrays and Wind Generators.
    Covering any large are with Solar Panels, amounts to "roofing" over that area. That of itself will alter the ecology, environment and ground and air temperatures underneath that "roof'. Climate change results.
    Wind generator farms have problems of their own. The cost of building (around $5m each)and maintaining them is just the start. The very large area (around 1.5 hectares or 4 acres per generator)that each generator requires to work efficiently, is no small consideration. The total number of generators required to provide any modern city with its power needs, is simply prohibitive in terms of land usage.
    There is also a matter that few science types are talking about; every Wind generator extracts from the available wind, a very definite and considerable amount of energy. With large numbers of wind Generators the energy loss from the wind currents will alter the nature of the wind force. Altering the force of wind currents will change ambient temperature and rainfall. Climate change follows.
    Wave generators have extreme maintenance problems; salt corrosion, sand and particle erosion and storm damage. Marine fouling (Seaweeds, Barnacles etc.) require regular cleaning, and the extensive use of toxic anti-fouling coatings, ( the products of Oil and Coal). Wave generators are also impediments to marine life, and to shipping.
    We also have the background problem of national debt. The export and sale of coal and Iron ore is an essential part of our ability to meet our debt obligations. Without them there is every possibility that Australia could go into default. That would impose on all of us an economic burden, that I am sure, would please none of us.
    Without viable alternatives to fossil fuels, we will have no Steel or other Metal production, no Bricks or Cement,(no construction Industry) no air travel, no shipping, (no holiday cruises either,) no automotive transport (no jobs to drive to) and Oh, yes a hugely reduced food production.
    Our air will be a little more breathable, our water a little cleaner, and the additional exercise from walking and digging our backyard gardens, will be healthier for us.
    But shelter, clothing and enough food will certainly be a greater concern than it is now.

    Solutions? I have no idea. But I would suggest that political pundits and fanatics should spend a lot more effort producing alternative ideas than pontificating on political points.
    This matter is far to important to be simply waving flags for Political Parties and their posturing leaders.
    Regards,

    Bemused
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    12:24pm
    I don't know how you come to that conclusion Bemused, about left wing leanings I mean and although I disagree with you on that point I agree with everything else you said in the comment above, best explanation yet and you should send it to the pollies whose portfolios it is, to all parties too, they might learn a thing or too that they didn't already know.
    Blossom
    20th Oct 2014
    12:52pm
    Coal tar is used in creams for some contagious skin conditions and has been for over 45 years.
    Adrianus
    20th Oct 2014
    1:22pm
    Bemused, I couldn't agree more! I our politicians were fair dinkum they would focus more on a positive outcome instead of a negative one.
    I admire the work done by Elon Musk and the team at Tesla.
    We desperately need better solutions but what we don't need is more taxes and more waste.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    3:09pm
    Good post Bemused. I have to agree with you on some of your points. But like the Titanic if we are all in leaky lifeboats what then? The problem with your post is that you claim it is all too hard so lets do nothing, the worst of all things.
    And then you have Liberal Party troll Frank crying "we don't need more taxpayer dollars" as we pay coal an extra $6 BILLION after the Carbon Tax repeal. Moronic!!
    Lets have a look at some of you spiel:
    1. You claim that putting solar on rooves will cause an bad atmospheric reaction, but this is nonsense. Energy absorbed from the sun is energy not immediately sent back into space. When this energy is consumed that then occurs. We are still in equilibrium.
    2. You fail to mention that solar cells are currently working at about 15% efficiency. But if they covered an entire roof area life a round the world unpowered flight earlier this year then each household would generate enough electricity for themselves as well as all of industry. And if the efficiency increases, as it will, then we all win the lottery. But your post is a backward looking ideology and societies are never built that way. Technology keeps advancing no matter what the dinosaurs believe or demand. This one will too.
    3. Yes it costs to build a wind farm. It also costs to build coal fired stations and to provide infrastructure and subsidies to coal businesses....and they have heaps mate!
    I'll give you a few points in regard to coking coal being the only product necessary to produce steel at present but this is estimated to account for only 12% of the world production, so there is ample scope of not using the rest for power generation. Aluminium also sucks up an ungodly amount of electricity and tampering with things like wind patterns are still unknown.
    Its not a perfect world Bemused but I for one won't be crawling into a corner and refusing to confront the future because I know my descendants more than that. What I find as totally objectionable is the big business owned Liberal Party and its army of stooges and trolls blogging the don't do anything whilst oft times deceiving readers about the truth.
    How did the Simon and Garfunkel song go (am I showing my age???): "get out of the new way if you can't lend a hand, for the times are a changing"? You really do not want to hear me sing and I am happy to spare you that.
    Golden Oldie
    20th Oct 2014
    3:16pm
    I agree that we don't have a current alternative for coal,oil and gas, for all it's many uses in todays society. However, are coal fired power stationa really so dirty? I came to Australia as a child in the fifties and lived in Yallourn and Newborough and remember my mother commenting on the amount of coaldust on the washing which was dried outside. By the end of the fifties and early sixties the original power station with 12 chimneys had been closed down in favour of a new power station, and later with the steam chimneys. The result, no more coaldust! We could probably live with coal if the big industry users controlled their emmisions. Same for oil and gas. Lots has been done to cars for example to improve performance over the last 50 to 60 years.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    3:27pm
    Golden Oldie: the problem with some posts is that they oppose anything other than doing nothing. A few claim subsidies. A few claim that the challenge is too great. And a few are government paid 'cash for comment' trolls who are repeating the Abbott slogans and not caring about the facts or anything else.
    In the end society has to change if it wants to survive irrespective of whether this hurts the bank accounts of the rich or not. Just imagine the Franks and Solomons of this world around the 1930s. Spending money on foolish things like jet aircraft, space travel, colour TVs, computers and associated devices. God forbid. I mean governments might have to throw in a few dollars so lets keep the horse and buggy. Better that these people die out and make room for the future methinks!
    ourjeffie
    20th Oct 2014
    12:27pm
    I think particolor has started drinking early today :)
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2014
    12:37pm
    I'm not so sure ourjeffie. I think particolor could be way out in front of most of us! Perhaps a little cryptic - but way out in front just the same...
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    12:53pm
    Drinking WHAT ?? Water !! I've got 2 days left till Pittance Day ! Me and My Pensioner Friends have NEVER been Broker EVER in our lives and NONE of us Drink nor Play the Pokies !!.. There's more but I don't want to bore You !!
    Blossom
    20th Oct 2014
    12:54pm
    Either that or he has nothing better to do than be on-line all day every day
    Blossom
    20th Oct 2014
    12:57pm
    I would love to know how particolor spends he and his mates spend their money.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    1:33pm
    After Coal Fired Power Station Rip Off, Telstra Internet Rip Off, Petrol Rip Off !And all the other Rip Offs !! And say that to everybody else that is on line every day all day !! That's Garbage I go and do things like anybody else and come back when I feel like it, as Telstra was Generous and gave Me 50 Gigs that I didn't want and there is no other Cheaper Plan Even for Pensioners ?? And I'm not giving them a Freeby by leaving half of it to them every month ! Which I do anyhow !! I've got enough Money left for Halal Authority Sour Grapes !!
    Adrianus
    20th Oct 2014
    1:48pm
    particolor, your lucky. The only time I leave the house is to go for more surgery.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    2:18pm
    Sorry about that Frank !! I'm lucky I'm Healthy I suppose ! . Although some on here think I need Brain Surgery ??..
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    3:11pm
    Sorry for playing the man particolor.....you ain't the only one mate.
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    3:25pm
    None of our business how particolor and his friends spend their money Engy.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    4:05pm
    I don't mind ! And we are not Starving Yet ! But it would be nice to go out once a Month ?? Its probably Lovely if Your tucked up in the Big City with everything on the Doorstep (So to speak) ! But a completely different story in the Bush on the same amount of Money ! A car is a necessity where I live, and that aint cheap ! But I do get a trip Overseas now and again ! I go to Sydney !!
    dstark
    20th Oct 2014
    1:00pm
    The weekend press disclosed that global temperatures have been flat for the last 15 years, during which time mankind has burnt more coal than EVER before. It is the sun and the earth's molten core that heats the oceans, which then cannot keep dissolved as much naturally occurring carbon dioxide. It is the scientists who want to keep their jobs who are clamouring for more research funds.
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    1:14pm
    Is anyone commenting on this page qualified, have you studied science, energy, climate change etc?, or are you just commenting on what you see on Tv and read in the papers?, I am 77 and I am merely commenting on the changes to climate that I have seen happening in my lifetime. Of course the population is growing every year and this must add to the environmental damage I am sure, all those planes flying every day, cars on the roads factories, crop spraying etc must be doing some damage surely. Isn't it in the best interest of future generations to find cleaner solutions to all these problems?.
    Adrianus
    20th Oct 2014
    1:44pm
    Misty, I don't think you meant to infer that you are the only one qualified to comment and I'm sure you have outstanding records of weather patterns stored in your attic dating back to your childhood.
    However, can you explain how more taxes can change the climate? Do your records show deviations consistent with your argument?
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    2:04pm
    Frank what on earth are you talking about, are you another one smoking or drinking?, I never said I was qualified to comment on this discussion, if we all needed qualifications I don't think anyone would be commenting on here, and why the remark about taxes?, I never mentioned that.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    2:29pm
    I've watered the Garden and Fed the Chooks, Patted the Cat and Cooked a Lamb Roast !! Can I come back now ??
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    2:35pm
    And No its not Halal !! I'm a Member of the Knights Templar Remembrance Society and I Knighted it with a Big Sward !! "... I Knight You Sir Lunch !!"
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    3:18pm
    dstark: you just need to watch more documentaries as the puzzle which the conservative governments of the world try to deny or hide does reveal itself.
    Good comment. I saw a Catalyst episode the other night which pursued just that point as well as why the energy measured coming in was less that the energy leaving the planet. The conclusions were that the oceans are like a huge sponge and are absorbing energy. Huge amounts of it. But it only shows up as fractions of a degree. The conclusion is that the warmer water in some parts of the world will be pushed to other parts of the world where they will manifest themselves in a number of ways.
    Just avoid the dill bricks who insist that temperatures can never go down even when the long term trend is up. A bit like Spring: temperatures are rising but we may get a few cold days before we have the next increase. Climate deniers say that every year has to be hotter...and maybe the last year, with temperature records around the globe, may have stopped the yapping for a while at least.
    The great thing about search engines is that the information is there. All one has to do is be bothered to find it. Good luck.
    wally
    21st Oct 2014
    12:11pm
    HI mick & misty. It seems the discussion has degenerated into an argument along the lines of "my scientific facts are better than your scientific facts, so there!" which is a refection more of opinion and not demonstrably proven fact. Likewise, would my newspaper clippings and other media sources and reports be better than everyone else's? So how do we decide what the real situation is? Has the sea level risen because global warming caused by greedy evil people burning things have created clouds of Carbon dioxide( that should result in increases in plant growth ) that has diminished the layer of gases that blot out the sun causing the oceans to warm, melt the ice and cause sea levels to rise? Does this cause polar bears dumb enough to get caught on shrinking ice floes to float too far out to sea and drown? Instead of getting swept up in a sort of self righteous feel good hysterical frenzy of condemnation of energy users so we can save the world for future generations (so they can bugger the world up for themselves instead?) we should look for evidence that would prove or disprove the opinions that are being thrown around and presented as facts and foregone conclusions.
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    5:47pm
    Not at all wally. The facts are always the facts. The only distinction is where trolls and vested interests claim 'facts' which are supplied by 'scientists' who are funded by coal and oil and who refuse to be peer reviewed...for the obvious reason.
    Whilst I am by no means an expert in this field I have been doing my homework and it is clear that so called opinions are only as good as the vested interests which promulgate them. That's a nice way of saying that there is a lot of BS out there and some people are pushing it either through their own ignorance or because they are aligned with the bad guys. So which are you mate?
    Bemused
    20th Oct 2014
    1:21pm
    Hi Misty,
    If you do not think that this block is tilted very left, have a read of the Editorials a comments over the last few years.
    Debbie and Leon both tend to be critical of conservative parties but not so critical of Labour and Greens. It is not difficult to ascertain their voting preferences.
    I am certainly no fan of Abbott, even less so of Shorten, and as for Christine Milne, Sarah Hansen-Young, et al, well, enough said.
    I have not bothered to write comments before, due to the obvious lack of factual, thought out, information and comment being conveyed. Mostly it seems to be party propaganda, lifetime indoctrination, wishful thinking and "oh dear poor me" kind of stuff.
    But now having reached, or perhaps descended to, the social rank of "Grumpy Old Man", I feel irritated enough to try an inject into these blogs, some encouragement for the correspondents to apply a little more considered and thoughtful ideas to their posts.

    Probably wishful thinking, but I thought I might try.

    Regards,
    Bemused
    Adrianus
    20th Oct 2014
    1:33pm
    Welcome back Bemused. I am also a fan of ideas rather than political sides, although due to the strong 'left leaning', 'poor me', 'so sad too bad', anti government' attitude I have found myself defending the government on many occasions.

    Regards,
    Frank D'Scuscion
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    1:50pm
    I really don't know why any of you commenting on this site, who think what Debbie and Leon put up for discussion is biased towards the Left side of politics, even bother to open this site, surely you have better things to do with your time. I gave up my subscription to the DT for precisely that reason, it is so Right Wing biased it is not funny, hard to find an independent source of news these days they all seem to have their own political agenda, be it TV, newspapers etc.
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    2:12pm
    Debbie and Leon, do you have a comment to make about the remarks Bemused has made here about your political leanings?.
    miss aisle
    20th Oct 2014
    3:39pm
    I agree with this block's leaning tilt to the left, & often thought the same as you
    about the editorials.
    But, hey, everyone has a right to be heard, whether getting paid for it, or not.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    5:33pm
    Frank, Frank, Frank. You do not take political sides? Really? Every post I read from you is a slogan from this government. How about you be frank and honest for once mate!
    professori_au
    20th Oct 2014
    2:42pm
    It will be interesting to see whether the Abbott or any other government will take too much notice. They have been operating gung ho style for decades and you will probably find they are slow learners in regards to considering the people's wishes. The following is a copy of what I sent to all Victorian Politicians. It will be interesting if they will reply. That's ok. I will send another after the election and also I will be posting it on the internet.
    To: Premier, Hon. Denis Napthine; Cabinet, premier@dpc.vic.gov.au

    The Hon. Daniel Andrews, MP, Leader of the State Opposition and all Victorian State politicians
    cc. MP’s for the Geelong Region: Member for Geelong Mr. Ian Trezise; MP, Member for Lara - Mr. John Eren, MP; David Koch MP Member Western Victoria; Member for South Barwon Andrew Katos MP; Member for Bellarine Lisa Neville, MP.

    From: John Robert Lawson of the family Wilson .
    Date 10th October 2014

    Dear Members of Department of the Premier, Victorian Premier the Hon. Dr. Denis Napthine, Ministers and Parliament, I know that it is my duty to keep you informed of MY WILL on anything that comes before Parliament, or that should come before Parliament.

    As you are aware that under the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution 1901, there are only two tiers of government and that local government is a department of the state.
    1) As an enrolled elector, it is MY WILL, to require how and where in 1979, the Victorian Parliament received its authority to alter or make laws that are repugnant to the Commonwealth Constitution. I require your reply within 14 days.
    2) The following information provided, expresses public concerns and seeks clarification from the Premier and Parliament of paragraph 1)
    IS LOCAL GOVERNMENT VALID?
    Some Facts.
    Australia's formal name is the Commonwealth of Australia. The original Commonwealth of Australia Constitution 1900-1901 was formed with the federation of the state/colonies. The Commonwealth of Australia government is a constitutional monarchy – 'constitutional' because the powers and procedures of the Australian Government are defined by a written constitution and 'monarchy' because Australia's head of state is Queen Elizabeth II.
    The sovereign government is the people and Parliament is its servant, elected to carry out the Will of the people.
    All Parliaments require authority from somewhere to make Laws.
    1. Where does the Victorian Parliament receive its authority?
    1. Section 16 of the 1975 Victorian Constitution and the Commonwealth Constitution 1901 section 108?
    2. The 1855 Victorian constitution has never been repealed, nor been to a referendum, hence remains the lawful Victorian constitution.
    3. The Victorian Constitution is subject to the Commonwealth Constitution Section 106.
    4. The Parliament of Victoria in 1979 amended the 1975 Victorian Constitution to include section 74A, which inserts Local Government into the 1975 Victorian Constitution.
    5. Local Government relies on the Local Government Act 1989 (Vic) for its existence.
    6. The Local Government Act 1989 (Vic) relies on section 74A of the 1975 Victorian Constitution for its existence.
    7. In 1988 a referendum seeking recognition of local government as a third tier of government was emphatically rejected by the people
    8. The people are the highest authority and parliament is its servant
    9. Municipal institutions and local government, is in the Commonwealth Constitution as a department of a State Government. (Pages 935 & 936 Quick and Garran Annotated Constitution).
    Questions and Issues
    1) Q. Can the Parliament of Victoria amend the Commonwealth Constitution?
    2) A. NO.
    a) Only the people of the Commonwealth can do that by means of section 128 (referendum) of such Constitution.
    3) Q. Can the Parliament of Victoria create any Laws that are inconsistent with the Commonwealth Constitution?
    4) A. NO.
    a) section 106 & 108 Commonwealth Constitution.
    Additional Facts.
    3) Therefore Section 74A of the Victorian Constitution is unlawful and as a result so is the Local Government Act 1989; subsequently Local Government as a third tier of Government is invalid and unlawful.
    4) Local Government can only be a Department of a State, and as a Department of State Government cannot govern us, cannot create Laws (Local Laws) and above all cannot Tax us (Rates).
    5) Given that Municipal institutions and local government, is included in the Commonwealth Constitution 1901 as a department of a State Government.
    a) In 1979 the Victorian Parliament acting outside of its authority unlawfully altered its Constitution to include local government as a 3rd essential tier of Government. Effectively making these laws inconsistent and repugnant to the Commonwealth Constitution 1901.
    IN AUSTRALIA, LEGISLATIVE POWER IS HELD CONCURRENTLY BY THE COMMONWEALTH AND THE STATES. IN THE EVENT OF INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN COMMONWEALTH AND STATE LAWS, SECTION 109 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF AUSTRALIA PROVIDES THAT THE LAWS OF THE COMMONWEALTH …………..
    b) Shall prevail over those of a State to the extent of any inconsistency.
    c) The meaning of "invalid" in s 109 does not mean that a State law is invalid in the positivist sense that the State Parliament lacks the power to pass it.
    d) The State law, though enacted with full validity, merely ceases to operate.
    e) Hence order for s 109 to come into operation at all, there must be a valid State law and a valid Commonwealth law.
    6) S 106 Saving of Constitutions
    a) The Constitution of each State of the Commonwealth shall subject to this Constitution, continue as at the establishment of the Commonwealth, or as at the admission or establishment of the State, as the case may be, until altered in accordance with the Constitution of the State.
    As a sovereign real life flesh and blood freeman, I, as my fellow Australians, have the right, under the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution 1900-1901 to be an informed elector.
    Yours sincerely of the Family
    Name: John R.L. of the Family Wilson
    Address: 616 Thompson Road Norlane 3214 Vic.
    Tele: 03 5275 8818. Email: j.wil@westnet.com.au
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    2:53pm
    Perhaps they didn't read Number 8 and fell asleep after a Hearty Parliamentary Dinner, Wine and Cigar ??
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    4:03pm
    Er -= can we have just the Executive Summary?
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    4:21pm
    I think its changed now to the simpler Layman Version ?
    1) If we want Your Opinion well ask for it !!
    The Hon..W.Closet...
    Bemused
    20th Oct 2014
    2:59pm
    Hi misty,
    Yes, although now retired, some of us are qualified.
    Climate change is real. It always has been real.
    Ever since this planet cooled enough to sustain an atmosphere and surface water, climate change has been real and ongoing.
    Climate change is due to numerous causes. Fluctuations in Solar activity, Continental drift, Volcanic Activity and impact by extra-terrestrial bodies have all caused massive and irreversible environmental changes. Over utilisation by various species, of available resources, is also a common cause of changes. Those changes have been responsible for catastrophic Life extinctions many times greater than all the species alive today. The general consensus is that there have been, since life emerged, around 650 million years ago, 5 major extinctions and an unknown number of minor extinctions, some as narrow as a single species.
    Creationists refuse to acknowledge this state of affairs. Evolutionists tend to ignore the obvious conclusions.
    Homo Sapiens (Humans) are not very good at adapting to natural change. We are good at adapting our environment to what we believe we want and need. To achieve this requires the consumption of extraordinary amounts of energy and resources - none of which are infinite. The effect of this is subject to discussion and argument, but my own feelings are that we are, by our own out of control consumption of resources and energy, contributing to climate change in just the same fashion as numerous volcanic eruptions contribute.
    With our current population levels, (and rapidly growing), it is not possible to return to the living processes of 5,000 years ago; or for that matter, even 150 years ago.
    We are working enthusiastically to overcome Famine and Pestilence and War.(Good luck with the War thing!) We are however encouraging and aiding and abetting population growth.
    Humans are moving further away from natural adaptability, thus rendering ourselves more and more vulnerable.
    In our present social, political and economic systems, when ANY of our resources fail, violent inter-social activity will ensue, leaving any survivors unable to adapt to a drastically altered social, economic and moral reality. Extinction of the human species, along with many other species, is a very real probability

    What are our alternatives?
    Planned reductions over lengthy periods, of emissions, to small percentages of recent previous emission levels, is pathetic and quite useless.
    Despite political posturing and wishful thinking, climate change is absolutely irreversible, and is beyond control by the human population. Planned reductions over lengthy periods, of emissions, to small percentages of recent previous emission levels, is pathetic and quite useless.
    To sustain human population into the foreseeable future, will require an economy based, not on artificially induced and growing consumption, but on an individual long term need basis i.e. Appliances, tools, clothing accommodation etc. that have a very long planned life, not subject to constant cosmetic model change, and marketing pressure. Manufacturing and retailing based on community need and with limited profit taking.
    Local production of product to limit transport energy needs.
    Limited automotive use, and curtailment of unnecessary travel.
    Food production and distribution based on need rather than wide choice.
    And the biggy, strict population control.
    I do not know what the limit should be, but something less than 1 Billion people world wide, seems to be a starting point.
    How to achieve all this and save the Planet? I have absolutely no idea, and I am not even sure it would be worth the effort and upheaval.

    So stop mucking about with all this environmental Frog Poo.

    " Live and enjoy what we yet may spend, until we too into the dust descend."

    On that bright note, Good Night, Rest Well!

    Bemused
    Misty
    20th Oct 2014
    3:11pm
    Where on earth do you reside Bemused, it is only mid afternoon in my part of the world and if everyone took that attitude, "you are not sure if the effort and upheaval is worth it", why would we even bother to get out of bed each day.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    3:28pm
    Bemused ..Tell them to look up TAMBORA on You/Tube and watch the lot!! That Might shake them up ??..
    taylah
    20th Oct 2014
    3:17pm
    Do not believe in we lower income people heavily subsidising the rich who can afford their fancy solar / wind power apparatus. If people want so called clean energy then let them put their money where their mouth is so to say.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    3:43pm
    Too right.
    Thank god for common sense. Keep up the good work Tony
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    4:43pm
    taylah: So who do you think that coal gets all its subsidies from? Not free you know. And are you aware that Abbott repealed the Carbon Tax so that his mates in the coal industry would get $6 billion a year from taxpayers? Didn't know that I bet.
    For your information Solomon is a government paid troll so don't be surprised that he writes in slogans and government rhetoric. You get what you get.
    From you point of view have a think about the future. Do you want to be held hostage to the dirty coal industry forever, or would you at some time want all but free energy as well as cleam up the environment? No brainer really!!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    5:24pm
    Clean energy may one day be economical to produce. When the time comes, private companies will jump at the chance to invest and provide returns to shareholders.
    Until such time it would be economic suicide for us to abandoned our bread and butter for fairy tale utopian ideals.
    Like I said, thank god for common sense. Thank god we have Tony at the helm.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    5:39pm
    Unpredictably Solomon this is exactly what the Abbott manual says and that is what trolls write.
    The reality is many wonderful inventions reached the consumer after money had been put in: some by government and some by private equity. The difference with energy is that we have coal, oil and gas interests actively campaigning against clean energy. not because it is unviable. Not because it is in its infancy. Just because it threatens the rich with their coal and oil interests.
    Your last sentence identifies your troll status yet again. You are a disgrace and should not be posting as a member of the public because you are trolling for payment.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    6:19pm
    OY! OY!! Captain Pugwash !!

    20th Oct 2014
    3:38pm
    It is still uneconomical to produce. Until such time as the numbers stack up, investment in coal and other fossil fuels makes incredible economic sense.
    let the greenies and other do -gooders sell their investments. The smart ones can then mop up the shares at bargain basement prices.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    4:39pm
    So says the coal owned government...and you as a wholly owned subsidiary Solomon. It must be awful to have sold your soul to the devil.
    Bemused
    20th Oct 2014
    5:09pm
    Hi Mick,
    Just a few points. I was not suggesting that "It is all to hard and I will go sit in the corner", nor that I am resistant to change. I have spent the best part of 40 years exercising a passionate interest in alternate renewable energies. I have personally built and have been involved in the building of Wind powered generators for boats, farms, and my own backyard.
    I have been involved in photovoltaic cell arrays of various sizes and types.
    I have experimented with "hydrogen cell crackers" converting water to useable hydrogen and oxygen.
    I was involved in the late 1960's with the development of a battery powered lawnmower and an edger. The public were not ready for it.
    In the early 1970's I worked for an English company manufacturing batteries. That company spent a very large amount of money developing a battery powered small commuter car. The plan was initially to produce 100,000 units for use in London. The vehicle was ready for release to a motoring media audience and the World, when some bright spark figured out that the amount of additional fossil fuel required to be consumed by the power stations to recharge the vehicles overnight, was greater than the amount of petrol these 100,000 small vehicles would have used in an appropriately sized conventional engine, for the same distance and number of trips made daily. Instant end of that project.
    If you read my post carefully again, you will note that I was not referring to Solar panels on "rooves", I was referring to the situation that would occur if, for example, an attempt was made to construct an array capable of providing enough solar energy to power an Alumina processing plant the size of the one in Gladstone, Qld. An array of that size would be the equivalent of covering over an area somewhere around 50 sq. Klms. That array would have the same effect as "roofing over" that area of countryside. The result would be, environmentally, the same as the floor of the average shed. Not much plant life growing; and that does not even consider how much bush would need to be cleared to enable the construction of the array.
    I do not recall writing that solar panels cause a bad effect on the atmosphere, and in fact I did not. I did suggest however, that the energy required to process the aluminium and plastics used in the construction of the array was a contributor.
    I have on my own roof some 28 solar panels rated at a little over 5 kw. The maximum mid summer, midday, sustained output that I have seen is 3 Kw. And, I live in Queensland. (Mick do you have a solar array on your roof)
    A persistent problem in Northern Europe, Canada, Alaska, and the Northern States of USA is the lengthy winters with short, low angle daylight hours. and of course snow cover. Similar conditions apply in southern parts of Australia, New Zealand, China and other parts of the World.
    Cloudy days at any time of the year have a profound effect on output in any place in the World. The wet season in the tropics has many cloudy periods. All detrimental to solar output.
    There are to many factors (incidence angles of sun, position of panels, latitude climate, dust shade etc.) to ever believe that a solar panel (Photovoltaic Cells) will ever reach 100% efficiency. Even If, by some miracle of science the cells can be made 100% efficient, line loses in the cabling and the inverters will still thwart the output. The Photovoltaic cells have a "Life", constant exposure causes a reduction in sensitivity. Retail salesmen claim a life of 25 Years. That period, in a quality cell, means that it will still retain 65% - 75% of it's notional rating, after 25 years. Most of the cells on the market remain to be proven in actual service.
    The processing of the materials for wind farm installations also requires a huge amount of energy.
    In U.K., Europe, Canada and U.S.A. the construction and maintenance of wind farms is so costly, that to keep up the semblance of renewable energy involvement requires heavy subsidies by the taxpayers. Only political correctness (and massive subsidies) is keeping those projects alive.
    I have been informed that Germany is considering withdrawing taxpayer subsidies for wind farms. The common fear is that a move in that direction will bring wind farms to an end in that country. France has little interest in this direction, Britain and Canada, I understand are quietly re-assessing their position. Any continuation in those counties will almost certainly be for political reasons rather than to save the World. China and India have very lukewarm interest in Wind Power. They are all very aware of the problems associated with it.
    Accumulations of insects and dust greatly reduce efficiency, and bat strikes (birds far less so)and wind blown debris, (twigs, leaves, seeds etc.) cause considerable damage, expensive to repair.
    Mick have you had any close encounter with Wind Generators? From a distance, the sails seem to move in a very languorous manner. However the tips of the blades travel at extremely high speeds, and the blades generate a very intense shock wave. Try living in a house, or even standing for a lengthy period within 800 metres of a working generator. Not pleasant. Nearby livestock, unable to escape, slowly lose condition and eventually exhibit odd behaviour.
    The power generated is costly
    My comment about solutions was that, after all that effort, study and physical work I still have no viable, large scale and commercially affordable solutions. I know of no one who has genuine solutions either. The work goes on, but do not believe marketing hype or political spin. Efficient, cost effective, alternate renewable energy for the long term, is still very, very far in the future.
    Mick, I am no fan of Abbott, Shorten or any of our political leaders, but to attempt to place blame on any of them in these matters is purile. A carbon tax will do absolutely nothing to avert climate change, it is punitive on ordinary users. The sole intent was to create a price discouragement upon ordinary users. The affect on so called major polluters was a sham. If the "major polluters" were prevented from recovering the cost of the tax, they would simply go away. Then the Government would need to take over the role, pay themselves the tax and charge it to the consumer. Same end result.
    Gillard's mining tax was another fiasco. The 5 major mining companies simply said to Gillard and Swan, persist with the tax on us and we will take our investment and jobs elsewhere. The result, only the small miners were levied the tax. That made them less competitive, and played into the hands of the large miners. The Government did not get much revenue.
    As for the miners contributing to the liberal party, they also contribute to labor. In addition the mining unions levy their members AND the Mining employers to fund labor candidates. They all hedge their bets. Who owns whom?
    The Auto industry in Australia soaked up $30 Billion over 25 years in Government subsidies.
    For What? Who Owns Whom?
    Mick I have been long winded, for which I apologise, but this entire situation needs to be discussed with serious intent, leaving out personal animosities and dislikes. Believe me, no politician or political party is going to resolve the situation, nor any company or trade union for that matter. They all have to much to lose in the short term.
    best regards.
    bemused
    ,
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    5:30pm
    You spent a lot of Money ?? I've got 2 Old car batteries and a Car Battery Solar Charger outside the Back door and I've had Free Electric Light for 2 Years now if I want it !! Total cost 24 Bucks !!
    joycan
    20th Oct 2014
    5:13pm
    Abbott is onto 'Clean' Coal! Well, Australia, Can we afford to use our water to wash the coal clean? The COALition is led by Dumb and Dumber. Australians, per head. are up there with those who have the largest carbon footprint in the world. China is going solar, the Arabs are going solar, Spain is going solar. Where as Australia is going solo - down the path of expensive Gas and Fossil Fuel power generation. Give me my inexpensive Solar power!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    5:30pm
    We have lost our manufacturing sector due to our competitive disadvantage. High cost of production, driven by greedy unions
    Now you want the rest of corporate Australia to go bankrupt with your loonie green rubbish.
    GROW UP !!!
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    5:40pm
    The wages are dearer here because You cant get a Bowl of Rice and a Pretzel, and a Straw Bed for 2 Bart !! Like You would like to pay Your Workers !!
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    5:57pm
    We have lost our manufacturing sector because AUSTRALIA CANNOT COMPETE WITH $10 A DAY COUNTRIES. Your spiel is a cop out Solomon. Your employer has no place being our PM if that is what he believes.
    You also conveniently omit to mention that some countries still have trade barriers in place against Australian exports whilst we have few, with the ones there at low levels.
    Please explain to this forum WHY we do not have any barriers to Chinese imports and are now going to be paying a tariff for our coal exports to China. It kind of makes a mockery out of the whole coal and level playing field rhetoric which we hear from people who think they are important.
    The reasons Australia is going down the gurgler is our high standards of living and because of BAD BAD GOVERNMENT. The current government is the worst I can remember in living history and certainly the most dishonest.
    Your rants about "loonie green rubbish" are what one would expect from a government funded troll. You have no morals Solomon!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    6:07pm
    Yes Mick - US and Europe can have thriving manufacturing but Australia cant.
    You know why - because Australian manufacturing wages were among the highests in the OECD
    High wages NOT matched by HIGH PRODUCTIVITY.
    WHY???
    Because the Unions were holding companies to ransom
    Well - you reap what you sow.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    9:32pm
    I get it Solomon. Pay Australians $8 an hour whilst CEOs and their Boards pocket the difference. The Howard solution? Called Work Choices....better know as No Choices.
    We all know your boss Tony Abbott wants to enslave Australian workers. You are one of the trolls doing his dirty work. Shame!!
    As a matter of interest I let you know what you already understand: that there is already talk worldwide of putting trade barriers back up to protect countries from third world wages and retain a fair standard of living.
    Good to see that Tony is paying you overtime Solomon. But that will go you know. I'll have the last laugh methinks.
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    9:11am
    So Solomon you would be happy if our workers received less pay while CEO'S GET MILLIONS FOR RUNNING THEIR COMPANIES INTO THE RED OR LEAVING AUSTRALIA ALTOGETHER?, I suppose you think Alan Joyce is doing a marvellous job too, easy to see where your loyalties lie.
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    10:19am
    Misty: in case you do not Know Solomon is a card carrying liberal party troll. He has admitted this and stated that he gets paid by the party, obviously to present its propaganda and lies. Some people have no souls!
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    10:35am
    Well Mick that explains it all, I will just ignore his contributions in future, Labor or Liberal we don't have to agree with everything our parties put forward, if we have minds of our own we can form our own conclusions even if it goes against party lines and that is what is missing from a lot of these comments.
    wally
    21st Oct 2014
    12:33pm
    Australia has lost manufacturing jobs because of incessant wage demands by the union bosses and their resistance to raising productivity. Thus the goose that laid the golden eggs has been decapitated by the Union bosses. Why do so many of union bosses in Australia have accents thanhave their origins in the UK? is it because British manufacturing has gone down the gurgler? Comparing the industrial situations of Winners and Losers after World War II, why has victorious Britain's car manufacturing industry been reduced to making cars for Asian car companies (Tata in India, Nissan in Japan for example,) or the old enemy Germany (VW and BMW for Rolls Royce, Bentley and the Mini). Why has Germany become the manufacturing and economic power house of Europe? Why and how did Britain fall by the wayside? Might the power of the unions in post war Britain have anything to do with it? And what lessons can Australia learn from the fate of the UK?
    wally
    21st Oct 2014
    12:38pm
    There are different grades of coal that do burn hotter and "cleaner" than other grades of coal, but when Tony comes out in favour of clean coal, is he going to have Australia's unemployed youth cleaning coal (with tooth brushes) in the work for the dole program?
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    5:59pm
    Wally: you are only partly correct. Sure Australia is a high wage country. The alternative is to turn our workers into the dirt poor of the world.
    The irony of your post is that Australia essentially has a level playing field. Other countries do not. Just look at Japan (rice) and China (coal). Both countries get a very fair go here but have put tariffs in place to protect their own industries. AUSTRALIA ALONE IS PREPARED TO DESTROY ITS INDUSTRIES. This we have done and now we import rather than give our people jobs by making things for ourselves. Something very very wrong with that. And then we flog off anything of value to foreigner rather than get the dividends for our own. Sick man!!
    wally
    23rd Oct 2014
    11:12am
    So yes, Australia is prepared to destroy its industries? Ms Gillard gave it a red hot go when she decided to ban live cattle exports to Indonesia and hang the station hands (including Aboriginal stock hands) out to dry. The level playing field and the high wages paid to our workers have combined to make Australia uncompetitive and the laughing stock of the industrial world. Where else would a Labor government (working at the behest of the Union Bosses in the Labor Caucus) conspire to nullify Australia's advantage of cheap power and put the industries their union members depend on for a living out of business. Using the workers tax dollars to bribe Ford, GM and Toyota to keep producing uncompetitive products proved ubtenable in the end. In short, the Union bosses in Caucus have SOLD OUT those union members whose union dues pay the union bosses' salaries and fund, as in the case of Craig Thompson, their rorts, fun and games. You will remember in 2004, during Mark Latham's tilt at the Prime Ministership, Labor decided to support the restriction of logging in Tasmania to secure the Greenie vote? Labor lost long held "Red Ribbon" Labor seats there due to the backlash of the unionists in those seats who were aware of the threat Labor's betrayal of the loggers posed to their livelihoods.
    So, Comrade mickitate, being a high wage country is just fine as long as you have a highly productive industrial base to go with it. Australia failed to develop a more highly productive industrial base because Union interference and soaring costs made it impossible for the manufacturers to increase automation to boost productivity The Labor Government's Carbon Tax, together with Union demands, simply priced Australian manufacturing out of business. So unless you suggest that the Commonwealth government nationalize Australian farming, manufacturing, mining and fishing. you are sending the country even farther down the gurgler.
    After all, Communism broke down in the old Soviet Union but some people don't learn from the mistakes that were made there. So please open both of your eyes and stop your childish abuse of those you disagree with. Or, unlike your Labor heroes in Parliament, "play the ball, not the man."
    MICK
    26th Oct 2014
    2:58pm
    1. Australian industries are being destroyed by BOTH SIDES OF POLITICS wally...because we want cheaper goods and are happy to see Australians lose their jobs as a result. Called Trade Barriers....which this country has removed whilst others have not. Australia.......the level playing field of the world. Don't be a wally!
    2. You miss the point totally about subsidising some industries. Is it better to pay some subsidies or to put the workers on unemployment benefits....which is a far greater cost to us all than the subsidies?
    3. You are a joke mate. The repeal of the Carbon Tax was a pay back to the coal industry after the election. Do you not understand that the repeal cost taxpayers $8 BILLION A YEAR, every year.
    You are clearly an anti Labor redneck wally. Not only do you have no facts but you are printing Abbott rhetoric, most of it untrue. Wally by name and I dare say wally by nature. How do people like you sleep at night?
    Bemused
    20th Oct 2014
    5:47pm
    Hi Misty,
    I will try to be brief and then I will definitely sign out for ever. Maybe!
    To answer your question.
    I am very old. I have lived a life of experiences good and bad. I have found myself in situations I left with reluctance, others I was fortunate to get out of in more or less one piece. I have encountered people whom I have respected, despised, loved, hated, pitied and envied. People I have understood with pleasure and awe others I will never understand. Some I have worked to save. Some I have felt compelled to destroy.
    I am fond of my wife of 60 years. have raised a family in whom I feel great pride. They in turn have raised children who have become very worthwhile people, and their children are now making their own way in the World.
    My Wife and I have made a little money and lost almost as much.
    We live in a modest but comfortable house in a modest but nice area. We make our way on the aged pension, and somehow my wife saves enough for us to take short holidays from time to time. I do not live lavishly, but I do not feel deprived or disadvantaged. Most of those I classed as adversaries are now almost all dead. so to are most of those I called friends




    I live in a very nice place.
    My head is full of marvellous books and images, beautiful mathematics
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    5:59pm
    Well Some Good People are still here if Needed Bemused !!.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    6:05pm
    Hat's off to you Bemused.
    There's a lot of positives with this country and the way it is heading.
    Unfortunately some one tend to see the negatives.
    And this people are almost always labor supporters who want to bring down a good government.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    9:35pm
    Well spoken Bemused. It restores my faith in humanity when I hear of people who try their best and are content with what they have. There should be more of you.
    Good luck and hope you live for many more years to come.
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    9:16am
    Solomon how insulting, people like you should be banned from this site but fortunately we live in a free country so I will just ignore anything you contribute here in future, not worthy of replying to.
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    10:22am
    Misty: what should happen is that YourLifeChoices should make trolls put in at the end of every post they make that 'this is a liberal party advertisement' so that readers do not think that they are reading an opinion from an unbiased member of the public.
    particolor
    21st Oct 2014
    12:37pm
    Your Humble Servant... S. Man....
    wally
    23rd Oct 2014
    11:25pm
    Here I am, friend mick, to give the restoration of faith in humanity you mentioned this morning a good old fashioned shake and rattle! Perhaps not now, but maybe later we can cross the metaphorical swords again and get some of our people thinking outside the squares they have made for themselves.
    MICK
    26th Oct 2014
    3:00pm
    First check YOUR FACTS wally as you are just belting out Abbott slogans. Not helpful.
    wally
    29th Oct 2014
    12:07pm
    My facts trump your facts, mick, so there!
    Bemused
    20th Oct 2014
    6:33pm
    hi Misty,
    One last post and I will definitely sign out for ever. Maybe!
    To answer your question. I am very old, but I do not feel badly about that.
    In my life, I have had many experiences, many good, some bad.
    I have been to places I enjoyed and some I wished I had never heard of.
    I have met people I respected, admired and loved, some I disliked, hated and envied. Some I managed to save, some I felt compelled to destroy. I have outlived all of those who proved to be adversaries and enemies and unfortunately many of those I counted as friends. But I do not feel bad about that, this is how life works for us all.
    I like very much my wife of 60 years. I have raised a family, of whom I am proud, every one. In turn they raised successful worthwhile children, who in turn are now also raising children intelligent and inquisitive, but above all, they are pleasant to be in the company of, for long periods of time.
    I like my car, my dog, my neighbours and the birds and wildlife that visit me regularly.
    I live in a modest but comfortable house in a modest area.
    My wife and I have made some money, and in one way or another, lost almost as much.
    We live on the old age pension, not lavishly, but not going without anything of importance either. Somehow my wife manages to save enough for us to take short holidays from time to time. Clever woman!!
    Personally, I live with a mind filled with books, music and marvellous images, boundless memories and beautiful mathematics and physics. Most things interest me. Every morning I climb out of bed to face a day that is inevitably filled with something interesting, and if not I create some activity. Such as today, filling in time writing this blog. Probably a waste of time, but amusing and certainly better than watching TV.
    The other part of your post concerned my doubt as to whether the effort was worth it. I was referring to my hypothetical cure for our troubles.
    Do you think the effort of convincing major retailers to hand back the business to small corner stores would be not heavy? Do you think the population could be convinced to give up their cars, and pleasure trips? How about having the same clothing, furniture and appliances for 20 years?
    How do you think we could convince the population that there is just too many of us and that 6 Billion have to go? And to convince those of the surviving young women, that babies have to be regulated, rationed and pre-approved.
    Far to much trouble for me to undertake. How about you>
    If you read the post I replied to with to "Mick" it will give you another insight into the experience I thought I could bring to the discussion. But it seems that as ever people do not read and understand the words, but rather descend to their own interpretation.

    Have you noticed how quickly people who contribute to these forums express their belief that one politician works against them and another benefits them? Without proof positive of either case?
    Have you noticed how many contributors finally resort to personal denigration rather than confront the debate.
    Food for thought,
    Best regards,

    Bemused
    musicveg
    21st Oct 2014
    12:53am
    I have enjoyed reading your very informative posts, thank you,yes there are too many humans on the planet and maybe that is why wars are allowed to happen, as well as poverty which encourages starvation and sickness. The point of this discussion was if we support renewable energy and if we want to work towards a cleaner future, I for one want this to happen. I read recently about a new project where we can turn roads into generating energy and thought that was amazing and I live in hope that the answers are just around the corner.
    Tread lightly, cheers.
    Travellersjoy
    20th Oct 2014
    7:43pm
    I have already divested from coal etc and am doing very well in an ethical investment fund. Also have solar panels so enjoy free electricity for the foreseeable future.

    Something needs to be done to ensure we are not competing with Japanese for OUR OWN gas, handed over for peanuts to Abbot' mates.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    8:29pm
    Yes I noticed that today ! And Smiley on the Telly didn't convince Me of anything !!.
    The price for Domestic Gas will rise to Export Prices !! WTF ??? Let the AZZ Wipes have our Scraps !! What will happen here when its all gone ???????????? .
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    8:36pm
    Travellersjoy .. We've gotta Ditch the Bitch before He sells the Fillings out of our teeth !!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    9:20pm
    I seee you have solar panels, subsidised and paid for by the taxpayer. I suppose you're selling back to the grid at uneconomic prices that the stupid labor government agreed to with their hair brained scheme.
    DO you know that its the poor who are hurt by these idiotic socialist schemes?
    But you're alright Jack, and you have the gall to criticize this government who is doing it s best to fix labor debt.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2014
    9:32pm
    "To the Woods Folk with what You have left !! Here comes the Sheriff of Nottingham !!"
    MICK
    20th Oct 2014
    9:43pm
    Solomon: you are such a jerk and a nasty piece of work.
    "Taxpayers" are all of us. When government offer a subsidy they do so in the hope that people will see a good thing and go for it. That's why the liberal side of politics gives average people close to NOTHING.
    The truth is that Travellersjoy is doing something ethical, a situation that an Abbott troll like you will never understand. And as far as the subsidies are concerned they will run out and THEN the photovoltaics will produce power much cheaper than coal....AND IT IS THIS THAT YOU CANNOT STOMACH. You are such a grub and I am ashamed that you came to this country and now call yourself an Australian after having razed your own nation.
    I've calmed down particolor!!
    You and your kind seek only to enslave average workers whilst the rich take everything.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    9:45pm
    you have fillings?
    If they're gold, you better declare them as assets to centerlink.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2014
    10:13pm
    Read this Mick

    Most Americans support measures to promote cleaner energy such as solar or wind power. In order to stimulate the use of these forms of energy, the federal government — and often state and local governments as well — subsidize their use. In the case of solar energy, homeowners are given subsidies to purchase and install solar panels on their roofs to supplement or offset their own energy use.

    While these subsidies do encourage placement of solar panels, there are greater costs most bureaucrats do not consider: who is ultimately footing the bill? In this case, the money used to help pay for the solar panels comes from taxes and electricity rates paid by all — including low-income residents.

    In the end, there are better methods of promoting clean energy in homes than giving the upper-middle class subsidies at the expense of those struggling to get by.
    http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/30369034-452/solar-energy-subsidies-hit-struggling-families.html#.VETs6_mUd8M
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    12:11am
    Love coal it has brought so many out of poverty ,.,
    The US now the "cleanest "economy thanks to Fracking
    I did say fracking Sol ..
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    12:25am
    IDEOLOGUES anticipating an imminent “green energy revolution’’ and the demise of Australia’s “dying’’ coal industry need a reality check. In the long term, as technology advances, renewables will provide the energy of the future.

    At this stage, however, the timescale of when renewables will be able to generate sufficient power for domestic and industrial users at a cost-effective price is unclear. As Paul Kelly wrote on Saturday, the International Energy Agency predicts that by 2035 fossil fuels will meet 76 per cent of world energy demand and renewables will meet 18 per cent. Minerals Council of Australia chief executive Brendan Pearson notes the growth of coal in the past decade has been seven times the combined growth of wind and solar. Last year, China added three times more new coal-based electricity than wind and solar combined. More than 1.3 billion people around the world have no access to energy, and fossil fuels will be pivotal in filling that gap as poorer nations industrialise and achieve better living standards. Despite a global glut of coal, miners exported a record 158.5 million tonnes from Queensland from January to September.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/throwing-light-on-energy-use/story-e6frg71x-1227095467658
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    12:46am
    Why the Frack can't we do the same here?
    miss aisle
    21st Oct 2014
    7:46am
    mick - 9:43pm - "..when the govt. offer a subsidy.."
    When Labor offered a subsidy or "gave" money away, -
    it was borrowed money - how crazy is that!
    Giving away taxpayers' BORROWED money(add interest) like there's no tomorrow

    Yes, the Coalition is more careful with its priorities -
    they realize the importance of living within their means, & not leaving massive debts for future generations.

    Labor always sinks us so deep in huge debt from stupid ideas,
    while the Coalition has to make the hard decisions to bring us back on track.
    The end result is - reckless spending - huge debt, huge interest fee - Labor
    - paying off Labor's debt & having a surplus - Coalition
    OVER & OVER again!
    The carbon tax was such a big flop, as well as hurting the economy.
    If Tony Abbott had been in power during Rudd, Gillard, Rudd years,
    we would be so prosperous now.
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    10:29am
    Miss aisle: you seem preoccupied with 'Labor giving money away' but you make no mention of the $8 billion a year extra money this government is giving to the coal, oil and gas industries....the reason the Carbon Tax was repealed.
    You also omit to mention that it was Tony Abbott and his government which removed the debt ceiling so that it could borrow without limit or accountability and that the national debt has increased by over $30 billion since this government took office.
    And then you roll into the BS about the Carbon Tax being a "big flop" and "hurting the economy". These are outright lies. I have to question if you, like Frank and Solomon, may also be on the government's payroll. Your posts are beginning to sound like the Abbott slogans we are all used to hearing.
    Adrianus
    21st Oct 2014
    4:37pm
    mick you are like a broken record stuck on $8b. Where on earth did you come up with that figure???
    The government stands to save $13.8b by scrapping the mining tax. Of course that is disputed by your pals at the ABC Fact Checker who also get it wrong. But really mick??!!
    ABC Fact Checker.....
    "The only reason scrapping the mining tax would improve the budget position by $13.8 billion is because the Government included the abolition of eight spending measures in its legislation.

    Seven of these measures had direct links to the mining tax in Labor's budgets, but the Schoolkids Bonus - which is the largest single saving at over $5 billion - did not.

    Including this measure dramatically increases how much the legislation can improve the budget position.

    Furthermore, Senator Cormann did not mention these "associated measures" in his claim. Scrapping the mining tax alone would leave the budget $3.4 billion worse off over the next four years.

    Senator Cormann's claim is exaggerated."

    and mick's claim of $8b per year is just plain more BULLSHISSTIMATE!!
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    6:06pm
    So your BS about Labor giving money away has merit and this scumbag government giving money to their mates in big business does not? But what else does one expect from a government troll Frank?
    I'll keep repeating this every time you and your lot tell the porkies you continue to tell. Your slogans are not working.
    Adrianus
    21st Oct 2014
    8:11pm
    mick just tell us where you get the $8b from? Don't tell me. It came from your mates at Get Up didn't it?
    MICK
    22nd Oct 2014
    9:14am
    Come on Frank. You know as well as I do that the repeal of the bad Carbon Tax (sic) immediately gave coal $6 billion a year and oil and gas $2 billion a year. Tony Abbott would have told you that in the troll briefing wouldn't he? The information is not too hard to find.........although you question as you seek to discredit the facts whilst you spin the fiction about Labor waste......which pales into insignificance when you look at what this government is doing. Is it any wonder Abbott had to remove the Debt Ceiling on borrowings.
    musicveg
    21st Oct 2014
    12:55am
    The discussion was supposed to be whether you support renewable energy and want a clean future, I think many comments here have gone off track.
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    1:04am
    Don't you mean off frack?
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    7:00am
    The only" clean" energy I support is nuclear . We should buy our energy from the cheapest producers ..
    buby
    21st Oct 2014
    7:11am
    since when would Nuclear be clean energy Pete, ARE you serious.
    When they can't even get rid of the radio active left overs safely! how can you call that clean? go back to bed Pete, and have another guess>!
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    8:59am
    And where would you like it Pete, in your town or city?, I bet as far away as possible.
    MICK
    21st Oct 2014
    10:31am
    You can see the two camps here Musicveg. On the one side you have those who seek a meaningful discussion. On the other side you have the government trolls seeking to entrench their propaganda as fact....when it is anything other than.
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    11:11am
    What is not fact . That coal has lifted millions out of poverty and will continue to do so ..
    That nuclear is the cleanest energy source ..
    That wind and solar are not viable with today's technology ,
    Why don't you read the article above before making silly comments...
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    11:15am
    I have a nuclear reactor in my city Misty been there for years and they have just put in a new one . I live in Sydney..,
    With luck we will have nuclear fusion as a viable source within ten years.
    particolor
    21st Oct 2014
    12:43pm
    I'll call Control for the Derailment Crew !!
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    12:52pm
    Not in my lifetime I hope Pete.
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    1:05pm
    At least not until they work out a safe way to get rid of the waste and make Nuclear Power Stations themselves safer, we don't want a repeat of Chernobyl or Japan do we.
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    1:36pm
    Nuclear fusion, co-discovered by the Australian physicist Sir Mark Oliphant, is the process that powers the sun and stars. If harnessed, it offers the possibility of virtually limitless clean energy. As its name implies, fusion energy is released by joining light atomic nuclei (typically deuterium and tritium, which are isotopes of hydrogen) within a high-pressure, extremely high-temperature “plasma” contained by magnetic fields.

    The attraction of fusion is substantial. Like nuclear fission, the fusion process produces zero greenhouse gases. Unlike fission, which generates radioactive waste as a by-product, fusion is intrinsically clean. The deuterium-tritium reaction produces helium and energetic neutrons – the only waste is generated indirectly, when the neutrons hit the shield of the reactor.

    Based on existing technology, fusion power plants could be recycled in 100 years. Research into the use of advanced alloys and ceramics suggests that this period could be made even shorter.

    Deuterium, a fuel for fusion, is naturally abundant in water. Any country with access to water automatically has access to deuterium, thereby dramatically reducing geopolitical tensions over energy security. Per kilogram of fuel, fusion releases four times more energy than fission, and a staggering 10 million times more than coal.

    World deposits of deuterium are enough to power civilization for millions of years. Access to fuel supply will therefore no longer be an issue, economically or politically.

    More importantly, the fusion reaction is inherently safe. Turn off the heating power and the reaction stops. There can be no nuclear chain reactions, no reactor meltdowns, and no explosions.
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    2:15pm
    Thanks for that explanation Pete, it has certainly given me food for thought and who knows I might end up being a convert yet, why haven't governments, State and Federal explained all this before?, you can't have a debate about Nuclear Energy without knowing all the facts.
    particolor
    21st Oct 2014
    4:13pm
    You cant have Your Yellow Cake and Eat it Too !!
    MICK
    22nd Oct 2014
    9:17am
    Pete: you omit to say one thing...that fusion whilst theoretically possible appears to be beyond the reach of science as it requires enormous amounts of energy to start. A bit like setting off a nuclear (fission) explosion to get it going. Having said that scientists are working at it. But it is currently NOT a solution of any sort. Sorry mate.
    wally
    22nd Oct 2014
    2:23pm
    And neither is renewable energy like wind and solar.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2014
    3:03pm
    Russia is developing a hybrid nuclear reactor that uses both nuclear fusion and fission, said head of leading nuclear research facility. The project is open for international collaboration, particularly from Chinese scientists.



    A fusion reactor called Iter is currently under construction in France and is due to start operation in 2020.

    An announcement of a breakthrough in nuclear fusion by Lockheed Martin.

    The arms manufacturer announced on Wednesday that it was “working on a new compact fusion reactor (CFR) that can be developed and deployed in as little as 10 years”.

    Project leader Tom McGuire, whose company is the Pentagon’s largest supplier of armaments, says the project could usher in a new era of peace and energy security.
    MICK
    26th Oct 2014
    3:02pm
    Oui oui Pierre.
    I'll wait for the fat lady to sing on fusion. Whilst this would be the best thing since sliced cheese the science community has been after this holy grail for decades.
    Seagull
    21st Oct 2014
    2:24pm
    So the cheapest form of energy is going to be denied to 1.5 billion people who have no electricity, i guess they can wait till solar or wind power is cheap enough to give them light. While the goat cheeses eating circle sing kumbyya.
    MICK
    22nd Oct 2014
    9:20am
    Read my post above Seagull. And the current nuclear energy process leaves us with radioactive waste whose half life (the time it takes to decay to half its current radiation level) is around 20,000 years. So we have to store the waste for maybe 100,000 years before it is safe. Can you see why 'nuclear' is not an option for any nation other than ones run by total morons?
    Adrianus
    25th Oct 2014
    9:06am
    Bob Hawke is still arguing for Australia to be a nuclear dumping ground for other countries. Maybe he thinks it's safe to do so? Or maybe he is just like you say mick....a total moron?
    Fready
    21st Oct 2014
    2:53pm
    Global warming is a lie. There has been no increase in temperature for 18 years. The USA is actually cooling as more and more carbon dioxide is exhausted into the atmosphere. Please check for yourself at the British Met Office:
    www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/news/recent-pause-in-warming
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    3:29pm
    Does it matter if its Global Warming or Global Cooling, what matters surely is if it is Climate Change and surely the Polar ice melting and the decline in animal no's in these areas must tell us something, and what about 37 degrees in Adelaide?, is that normal temperature for this time of the year?.
    particolor
    21st Oct 2014
    4:18pm
    Yes !!
    Adrianus
    21st Oct 2014
    4:44pm
    I'll tell you what else is cooling, people's attitude toward global warming.
    Anyway, I'm happy Professor Flannery is being kept busy trying to introduce Tasmanian Devils into Victoria. While he's busy with that , he's not scaring us oldies with his predictions of rising tides, bushfires, and other extreme weather nasty stuff.
    Misty
    21st Oct 2014
    4:51pm
    Please EXPLAIN particolor, yes to what?
    particolor
    21st Oct 2014
    5:27pm
    Yes I lived in Adelaide and its nothing New !! Bake Yer butt off it will at times !!..
    I hear last night that its the Hottest something or other in Adelaide for 150 Years !! ???
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    5:57pm
    If you believe that man is responsible for climate change and that CO2 is the culprit . You will be very please that the US leads the world in CO2 reduction . Thanks to better more efficient cars and the switch to Gas.
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    5:59pm
    I lived in Elizabeth fancy building a new town on a hot dusty plane .. When their were interesting hills nearby...
    particolor
    21st Oct 2014
    8:19pm
    We used to go Roller Skating at Elizabeth In the Musso Free Days ! Just Poms there then !! You could eat Your Pork Pie in Comfort !!
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2014
    9:52pm
    Ice skating or roller skating ?
    particolor
    21st Oct 2014
    10:36pm
    Well that caught Me off Guard as it was that long ago ?? And I used to do Both ! Roller and Ice Skating ?? Over 50 Years !! I'll be up all night now trying to think !!??
    We used to Drive all the way there from Goodwood in a Morris Minor that boiled half way there every time, I can remember !!
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2014
    4:19am
    You can go back to sleep I just looked it up on the net it was roller..Elizabeth was not just ten pound poms like me , but fifty per cent Aussie..
    particolor
    22nd Oct 2014
    6:41am
    I know that !! And they didn't whinge about our food either !!
    MICK
    22nd Oct 2014
    9:36am
    All the normal chestnuts and deniers I see but you clearly also believe that global warming is some sort of conspiracy Fready. I'm going with the scientists here. Since you made the comment would you kindly do me the courtesy of opening the link below and having a look at the CO2 graph produced by NASA:

    http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    What the graph shows is that after about 1950 something happened which has not occurred in over 600,000 years. Its off the charts comparatively speaking.

    After that consider the real facts (not those told by people who are sponsored by coal and oil grants) that:
    1. the oceans are warming
    2. the polar ice thickness is decreasing at an alarming rate
    3. weather patterns are changing

    The problem with the whole argument is that the deniers expect temperatures to go up in a linear fashion (never retrace and go down) and for things to happen fast (years instead of decades). Given that the earth reacts slowly and that the oceans have a huge capacity to absorb energy one has to be patient as this plays out...as it is doing. But just like the lobster in the pot not feeling the increase in heat (until it kills the critter) so too we see posts from the deniers who make a call based on their daily 'feelings' rather than a planet worth of scientists who have almost 100% agreement (apart from the coal and oil sponsored ones who have sold their souls) that GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL.
    My suggestion to you Fready is to inform yourself by doing endless research (Google it) and comparing information.....and if you find a denier then google that person to see who funds him. "The truth will set you free"....if that is what you want.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2014
    11:13am
    Who is denying climate change or even warming . It has been going on since the last ice age .
    If you believe that man made CO2 is the problem what do you suggest we do about it ??
    particolor
    22nd Oct 2014
    11:50am
    Polar Bears have started Shaving !!
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2014
    1:42pm
    Only the female ones!!
    Adrianus
    22nd Oct 2014
    10:34pm
    If you go to the ABS site you will see that after the 1st quarter of no carbon tax electricity prices have fallen dramatically.
    Electricity prices have had the biggest fall in 34 years.
    Thank you Mr Abbott.
    particolor
    23rd Oct 2014
    9:53am
    Thank You Tony !! My Fortnightly Pension now last for 8 days instead of 7 Days !!
    wally
    23rd Oct 2014
    11:15am
    parti, your fortnightly pittance might stretch to 9 days if you ate grass instead of smoked it!!!!!!!!!!! LOLOLOMG
    Misty
    23rd Oct 2014
    11:25am
    Has anyone received a power bill since the repeal of the Carbon Tax?, I haven't and prices certainly haven't come down in the supermarkets.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2014
    11:46am
    Because of repeal of the carbon tax and the reduction in the price of electricity our inflation rate has dropped by 0.5 per cent allowing low interest rates to stay in place ..
    The feed through to other services is expected to start showing up in the next quarter.
    The billions taken out of govt hands will circulate in the private sector for investment and growth..
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2014
    11:47am
    If the govt could repeal the RET we would see more dramas cuts.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2014
    12:38pm
    Forgot drama's have been cut . No more Rudd or Gillard...
    Misty
    23rd Oct 2014
    12:57pm
    No more Rudd and Gillard, instead we have foot in the mouth Abbott and Hockey instead.
    Adrianus
    23rd Oct 2014
    1:09pm
    Misty, why aren't you happy that those who can least afford it are not getting hit with higher costs? Think about the old people who have been smoking all their lives who cannot stop. They pay $12 out of every $22 spent on smokes.
    Misty
    23rd Oct 2014
    1:44pm
    Frank what do you mean?, we are not getting hit with higher costs?, my supermarket shops are not getting any cheaper and I haven't received a power bill, so I don't know if that will be cheaper, and just wait until Direct Action and The new PPL comes into play and all those big companies, who are paying for these, pass their costs onto consumers.
    particolor
    23rd Oct 2014
    3:22pm
    I'll put You out of Your misery !! I just got My Power Bill and there is No change that I can see ?? There is a note on it about the Repeal of the Carbon Tax ! But they must have forgotten about it ??
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2014
    4:44pm
    Yeah Frank driving down to the Old Spot for a fag and a beer and picking up a Sheila ain't what it used to be....
    Misty
    23rd Oct 2014
    5:06pm
    Yes Pete and I just heard that there will be at least 100 lose their jobs in 1 company alone if the RETS are passed as the Coalition would like them.
    Adrianus
    23rd Oct 2014
    5:23pm
    Pete, Labor followers think they are all for the little guy. That's what I find hard to understand. It's usually the little guy who gets belted in the end by labor. However, if you are in the brotherhood of the Unions you can do very nicely. I have watched a little of the RC into union corruption and it gives you an understanding of the disdain they have for the little guy. They need them though like you need all your pawns on the board.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2014
    5:45pm
    How amazing Misty the Headlines in the Australian today say the exact opposite . To save jobs in energy intensive industries , Aluminium for instance, RET needs to be scrapped .
    Besides which Solar is frying millions of birds and windmills give me a head ache ..,
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2014
    5:47pm
    Frank there is no union for the employed . They and the young are kept out of work by the greedy few on penalty rates without overtime.,,
    Misty
    23rd Oct 2014
    6:16pm
    Pete take a Bex and have a lie down( used to be the cure years ago ), it was on Sky News I heard the report about the job losses and I think it is your brains that are frying not the birds, time for you to move away from Solar and Windmills then and see if that fixes your headache.
    Adrianus
    23rd Oct 2014
    7:11pm
    A windmill manufacturer stood down 100 employees within hours apparently.
    Tony Abbott voiced regret for the loss of jobs at Keppel Prince, but noted his policy would help protect 160 jobs at the aluminium smelter.
    Pete you are up 60, your turn Misty, you are down 60.
    Misty
    23rd Oct 2014
    7:43pm
    Well maybe we are getting het up about nothing because the bill hasn't been passéd yet and maybe never will.
    Anonymous
    24th Oct 2014
    6:56am
    What spans 1,600 hectares, cost $2.2 billion to build, and potentially fries hundreds of thousands of birds per year?
    The new BrightSource solar power plant in California’s Mojave Dessert. The plant, which uses some 350,000 garage-door-sized mirrors to focus sunlight on three boiler towers, also acts as a death ray, instantly igniting and killing any wildlife that happen to fly through the intense beam of light. Wildlife officials are concerned that this concentrated solar power plant, and others like it, could turn into “mega-trap” that decimates the ecosystem — first attracting insects, and then attracting birds that eat insects.
    BrightSource, in the mean time, is forging ahead with an even larger solar power plant that officials say could kill four times as many birds.
    Won’t somebody stop these not-so-green nature-killing maniacs?

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/188328-californias-new-solar-power-plant-is-actually-a-death-ray-thats-incinerating-birds-mid-flight
    Anonymous
    24th Oct 2014
    7:08am
    There are those who support a source of fossil-free renewable energy. There are those who think the turbines are beautiful, and those who believe they’re a blight on the landscape. There are those who claim adverse health effects from extended exposure to the turbines. There are those who complain about the noise. And then there are birders—of which I am one. Most of us are conflicted. We desperately want to support clean, green energy sources, but we cannot accept any more man made structures that kill and injure our birdlife.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/ockhamsrazor/bird-strikes-at-wind-farms/4668750
    Anonymous
    24th Oct 2014
    8:43am
    KEPPEL Prince decided a week ago, before Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane outlined his proposed changes to the renewable energy target, that its wind-farm division had to close.

    General manager Steve Garner says the reasons are complex — and brutally simple. After Nov­ember, there will be no work.

    There are no orders and none expected. For 100 workers who build the massive, steel towers that support turbines, there is not a breath of wind on the horizon.

    “I haven’t done this off the back of Ian Macfarlane making his statement,’’ Mr Garner told The Australian shortly after telling his Portland workforce that one in three would lose their jobs.

    Keppel Prince workers, however, knew what was coming. David Mills, a 48-year-old boilermaker who joined the company as a teenage apprentice, knows it has carried its workforce, at considerable expense, through several difficult years.

    “We all knew that ... things were going to get a little bit ugly,’’ Mr Mills said. “Probably half my workmates here, and I don’t know whether myself as well, are going to be out of work. It is very hard to take.’’

    New contracts became sparse for the engineering company once the multinational players in wind energy began importing cheaper towers from China..,
    Adrianus
    24th Oct 2014
    12:16pm
    I think Greg Hunt summed it up nicely when he put the question to Labor......
    Does Labor want lower electricity prices or higher electricity prices? Because under Labor the price of Electricity has risen 150% during their last term.

    Labor's first lie is "yes they want lower prices"
    The second lie is " we are saving the planet"

    Gillard promised is to pay $2000 a piece to the first 200,000 voters to drag a pre-1995 car to the scrapyard, as long as they promise to replace it with a new green car, such as the Holden Cruze, Hyundai Getz or Toyota Camry Hybrid, now retailing for $39,000.
    The aim of this $396 million plan, says Gillard, is to help save the planet from our wicked gases, which she claimed were heating the world to hell.
    MICK
    26th Oct 2014
    3:07pm
    The real lie Frank is the picture YOU are painting. Electricity prices have all but triple per KWH and now they are going down 7% ???? Either you failed your maths at school, you are trolling for the government (yes!!) or you are an imbecile. Sorry to be so direct mate but the crap you again print only leaves these 3 alternatives.
    I find it interesting that you always seem to find the crazy chestnut to chase. But then I guess the government's coffers to fund its paid stooges/trolls is endless. Hopefully readers will see what your political affiliations are and what your employment status is.
    Adrianus
    28th Oct 2014
    2:35pm
    Yes mick, all but tripled under labor and coming down under the coalition. That is a fact that we both can agree on.

    23rd Oct 2014
    12:37pm
    IDEOLOGUES anticipating an imminent “green energy revolution’’ and the demise of Australia’s “dying’’ coal industry need a reality check. In the long term, as technology advances, renewables will provide the energy of the future.

    At this stage, however, the timescale of when renewables will be able to generate sufficient power for domestic and industrial users at a cost-effective price is unclear. As Paul Kelly wrote on Saturday, the International Energy Agency predicts that by 2035 fossil fuels will meet 76 per cent of world energy demand and renewables will meet 18 per cent. Minerals Council of Australia chief executive Brendan Pearson notes the growth of coal in the past decade has been seven times the combined growth of wind and solar. Last year, China added three times more new coal-based electricity than wind and solar combined. More than 1.3 billion people around the world have no access to energy, and fossil fuels will be pivotal in filling that gap as poorer nations industrialise and achieve better living standards. Despite a global glut of coal, miners exported a record 158.5 million tonnes from Queensland from January to September.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/editorials/throwing-light-on-energy-use/story-e6frg71x-1227095467658
    MICK
    26th Oct 2014
    3:11pm
    I heard, surprisingly, that 28% of our power is now coming for renewables. It was stated that this reprehensible government was cutting all green energy because "we have excess supply".
    If the above figure is accurate then are we not almost there and will the benefits not be evident shortly? Oh, I forgot....NSW energy companies are buying rooftop generated electricity for 5 cents a KWH and selling it back to the same customers for 50 cents a KWH. So who is benefiting? Not too hard to work that one out.
    particolor
    26th Oct 2014
    3:18pm
    2 and 2 is 10 Plus GST !!
    Adrianus
    26th Oct 2014
    4:36pm
    I'm sure on The insiders this morning they were saying renewables was 13% of total electricity produced. I really don't know where you get your info mick?
    Anyway the good news is that this government is getting the price down and NSW residents can expect even lower prices in the next 12 months.
    Adrianus
    27th Oct 2014
    5:29pm
    THE nation’s largest supplier of renewable energy has axed a $2 billion wind farm project off Tasmania’s northwest coast because it was economically unviable.

    “Our investigations eventually found that TasWind was not viable even if the RET was maintained at the existing level,” CEO Steve Davy said.
    particolor
    27th Oct 2014
    5:42pm
    Let the Wind blow high !
    Let the Wind blow Low !
    Donald where's Ya Towers ??
    Adrianus
    27th Oct 2014
    10:22pm
    Let me tell you, on the north west coast of Tasmania the wind howls constantly. If the windmills don't turn a dollar there then they wont do it anywhere else.
    Anonymous
    28th Oct 2014
    7:13pm
    I bet Christine Milne and her cohorts are spitting chips about the $2 billion wind farm being found "not viable".
    Adrianus
    28th Oct 2014
    7:36pm
    Radish, they will just say it is a political decision. We have wasted so much money it is depressing.
    Lula
    29th Oct 2014
    7:09am
    I agrede. I would change my bank.


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