World leaders in the hot seat

What are the outcomes of the G20 summit which was held in Brisbane over the weekend.

World leaders in the hot seat

Climate change may not have been very high on Tony Abbott’s agenda for the G20 summit held in Brisbane over the weekend, but Queensland’s weather, along with many of the world leaders in attendance, made it clear that the need for climate action would remain a hot topic during the conference.

Vladimir Putin may have received the cold shoulder, but the reception for many other foreign diplomats was warm – and fuzzy – with the leaders of the G20 governments being greeted by cuddly koalas on day one of the conference.

Cute koala cuddles and political differences aside, the G20 conference had many positive outcomes. There were commitments to eradicating poverty, endorsements to close profit-shifting loopholes for big corporations (meaning that corporations may now have to pay taxes more closely aligned to the profits they make to the countries in which they operate), promises to bring more than 100 million women into the global workforce and a resolution to raise global economic output by an extra 2.1 per cent by 2018. This target could potentially add more than $2.16AUD trillion to the global economy and create millions of jobs.

G20 nations have also backed the need for strong action on climate change, an issue for which Mr Abbott had little enthusiasm. Climate change was taken off the agenda by the Australian Government, after Mr Abbott said he didn’t want the talks to be cluttered with issues not directly related to economic growth.

His decision to keep the focus on financial matters drew praise from some foreign diplomats, while other countries, including the United States and members of the European Union, maintained that climate change needed to be a primary theme for discussion. And while Mr Abbott chose to use the world stage to ‘boast’ about his repealing of the carbon emissions tax, US President Barack Obama delivered a rousing speech demanding action on climate change, at the University of Queensland on Saturday – ensuring that it would remain in focus throughout the summit.

The G20 leaders have committed to working together to create a global protocol on climate change to be presented at the Paris climate conference in 2015.

Read more on SBS.com.au

Read the G20 communiqué

Opinion: It’s time for a change in attitude

The G20 summit clearly dominated the headlines this weekend and much controversy surrounded the conference; from the tension brought about by Russia’s involvement in the summit, to reports of Russian warships entering international waters off the coast of Queensland. From Opposition Leader Bill Shorten criticising Mr Abbott’s opening statement – mourning the fact that Australians didn’t agree with policies such as GP co-payments, and that he’s facing a challenge trying to convince students to pay outlandish fees for education, to disputes about the exclusion of climate change from the agenda for discussion.

If the rest of the world’s leaders are pushing for sustainable energy programs, shouldn’t our leader at least be open to discussing this issue with them? Climate change is irrevocably linked to the economy – from the economic outcomes of dealing with climate change, to how we go about developing sustainable energy programs.

Countries including the US and Japan committed to supporting the UN-backed Green Climate Fund during the weekend. So isn’t it time we got on board with our allies for more than just military purposes?

Regardless of the climate change debate, if the ‘measures’ promised by our leaders during the summit become more than mere ‘aspirations’ then the world will indeed be a better place. On the other hand: even if world poverty is solved; or if big business actually pays their taxes; or if 100 million women gain employment; or if the world becomes $US2.16 trillion dollars wealthier, even then, climate change won’t simply go away.

What do you think? Should Mr Abbott keep ignoring the climate change discussion? Do you think climate change is relevant to an economic debate? How will the targets set by our world leaders affect you?





    COMMENTS

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    17th Nov 2014
    9:45am
    Climate change was always on the agenda . But the main topic of this economic forum was growth and job creation .
    The climate change discussions have their discussions in Lima in two weeks and Paris next year.
    Labor in Australia and the coalition have the same target reduction of 5 per cent by 2020.
    It was a fantastically succesful conference which endorsed the work of the Sherpas like Hockey who have been putting together the commitments and follow up structures for the past year.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    12:23pm
    And we are now Ten Sing for the Reaction of it !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    12:40pm
    Yeah he no doubt is suffering from mountain sickness thank goodness for the sherpa.
    Grateful
    17th Nov 2014
    2:17pm
    Sherpa Hockey has been "putting together the commitments and follow up structures for the past year" to solve the problems of the world, yet after SIX YEARS in opposition and 14 months in government, he still is unable to get his very first Budget passed!!! Get real.

    And in this day and age of high tech advancement, they spend $370 MILLION dollars of OUR money on something that could have been done on Skype!!! A huge JOKE!!!
    All it proved is that Tony Abbott has been put in a spotlight for all the world to see how out of tune he is with reality. His "agenda" was "economics" and he must be a quick learner because his old former mate, Peter Costello, often said that Tony Abbott was an "economic illiterate" and he should know once being the "best Treasurer" in the world!!
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    2:32pm
    Grateful - Labor initiated attending the G20.
    What's $370 million, - Labor wasted or gave away $billions in their term.
    Grateful
    17th Nov 2014
    3:33pm
    Wow. Must have been the only thing that Tony Abbott as Opposition Leader didn't stop.

    The growth agenda involved the G20 members submitting more than 800 proposals to grow their economies by 2.1 per cent over five years.’

    That’s an average of 40 proposals per nation…your tax dollars in action.

    Want a bet anyone that whatever growth we achieve in the next few years will have nothing to do with these proposals, but rather the blood, sweat and tears of everyday people going about their business, as far as possible unhampered by rules and regulations (and "government initiatives"!!
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    3:48pm
    That's the same as how many Jobs He wanted us to go for a week !! I'm run off My feet ?
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:44pm
    At least Labor did not give $8 billion PER YEAR to the coal, oil and gas industries. This government led by Tony Abbott has done exactly that.....and then tried to tax Australians to pay for it.
    moke
    17th Nov 2014
    5:03pm
    I would really like to know how the !!!!???? are they going to make Big Businesses pay their right TAXES aren't the Liberals all for the Big Business Sector I think that idea is just a scam
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    5:09pm
    Moke .. You Think ??
    Jen
    17th Nov 2014
    5:26pm
    "Wow. Must have been the only thing that Tony Abbott as Opposition Leader didn't stop." Haha Grateful, you're right there! Truth is, he wanted to prance on the world stage. Little did he know he would look a fool and only managed to whine about Australians not wanting the $7 co-payment.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:44pm
    The only ticks I have been able to extend to this dishonest government is that they did indeed stop the boats and that they had a go at the big multinationals for rorting the tax system. But then the latter is in defense of local big business.
    All Australians should have to pay a fair share and moving profits to lower tax regimes overseas should be made illegal. No arguments there.
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    8:32pm
    Moke they don't get or tell big businesses they get told by big businesses.
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    8:42pm
    Miss aisle either sums are paltry compared to one of your legends called Honest John who gave away mega millions encouraging young girls to run around and get pregnant for four grand a pop. The legacy of that both cost and social wise will cost many more trillions to rectify.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    9:41pm
    Interesting post Kato. I agree. But you won't hear that from some of the more dubious posters on this site.
    KSS
    18th Nov 2014
    6:46am
    Of course the girls were to blame! The boys had nothing to do with it. We have a whole generation existing due to immaculate conception!
    MITZY
    18th Nov 2014
    11:36am
    Grateful: The G20 was a "baby" of John Howard's. He started the negotiations to get Australia into the mix. Rudd/Gillard followed on with negotiations and succeeded and the groundwork commenced for Australia to host it the last year of Labor's tenure.
    Actually, Costello may have been a good treasurer in "good" times, but I believe it was Wayne Swan who was voted internationally as the "best treasurer". An achievement worthy in the times of the GFC. This comment is not meant to start the usual backlash of debt and deficit etc. and each government blaming each other as they have done for quite some time, it's just a statement of what was announced by the IMF some time back.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    7:14pm
    It was Euromoney Magazine award given to Finance Manager of the Year, which is about as useful as any rating agency.
    Swan should share that award with Costello because Euromoney Magazine would have been hard pressed to find a country in better shape than Australia.
    I'm not sure of the IMF statement you refer to?
    Jen
    17th Nov 2014
    10:21am
    I don't see how he can continue ignoring Climate Change. I think the G20 successfully showed Tony Abbott that he's out on a limb over this one. While the rest of the developed world are getting on with plans to combat climate change, Tony Abbott has promoted himself and Australia as failing miserably on our responsibilities. Loved the meme I saw this morning it had a photo of Obama smiling and shaking hands and Abbott scowling behind him and it said "Dear America, we are keeping Obama. We will send you Abbott. That's ok isn't it? Love Oz." :D
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    12:12pm
    Gift Wrapped in Red Nylon :-)
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    12:36pm
    As a world traveller I was embarrassed at how Australia's leader behaved at the conference and I have to cringe when people we meet ask us if we are Australians. But then I recall that for some time after the election Tony Abbott was still in election mode when he talked publicly and had to be reminded that the election was over.
    If Tony Abbott thought that he would get any respect for badgering other leaders with his "I got rid of the Carbon Tax" boast he is wrong and the fact that Obama gave Abbott one huge serve is what it is. And of course lets not forget what Vladamir Putin's answer was to shirt fronting: boat fronting. Another embarrassment!
    Whilst this government is a coal owned government the world is and will move on and Australia will be the proverbial shag on a rock in a world which has come to grips with the need to fix our emissions. At this time we will all pay whilst the elected representatives who did this to us relax with their wonderful retirement benefits....compliments of the rest of us all who will have 'dirty energy' tariffs placed on our exports and higher taxes to make up the difference.
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    12:42pm
    Nylon Stockings?
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    1:12pm
    After six years of parliamentary failure in the US that finally came to a head earlier this month with the Republicans gaining control of both houses of the US Congress, Obama finally found the Uni students were receptive to his blather about climate change. He would be better advised to beg the Chinese to stop building coal fired power plants, or better yet, to stop annoying the grown ups. It is a pity he left Australia so soon, he would have been a big hit in ABC's Q&A. If anybody was an embarrassment at the G20, it was Obama.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:19pm
    Shocking Stockings !
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    1:26pm
    Can't disagree with that summation wally.
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    2:26pm
    wally, because things are looking so hopeless for Obama in all other areas of
    Congress, climate change with uni students must be a breath of fresh air.
    (whether he believes in climate change or not)
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:38pm
    Can't we all tell who the anti Labor (and Democrat) posters are? The rhetoric never changes. Put downs for anybody on the other side of politics whilst good policies are attacked...and lies to sustain the Liberal (and Republican) side of politics. You people are quite sickening and I fail to understand why the moderator of this site allows the group of you to continue posting as you are here in the capacity of government employees....not private citizens.
    FYI -Obama has had a tough time because he has not been able to get a lot through the senate. Sound familiar? Even background checks for gun purchases were knocked back. This is the same perversion which has happened in Australian politics during the past 5 years.
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    8:45pm
    Hi mick. I am sure we are all sad to hear/read that you are being made unwell by the fact that not everyone on this site agrees with you. Even worse, they have the temerity to post things you do not agree with. I am sure we would all share your chagrin and embarrassment at having to confess that you are an Australian who voted for Mark Latham, Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard over the past ten years. Those misguided souls in America that fess up to voting for the non performing Obama after all his "Yes we can" nonsense of 2008 must feel the same when they have woken up to the fact that "No we couldn't" is a more appropriate assessment of Obama's time in office since 2008. Maybe instead of jet setting around the world, you should go visit Mussitate. After all, misery loves company.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    9:49pm
    I invite you disagree wally but I do not appreciate pro liberal party trolling. I have noticed that you and several other posters continually bag the previous government even when the article has nothing to do with them.
    Personally I don't care who you vote for. What I care for is this nation and people debating truth rather than the pack of lies I continually witness.
    And yes...this prime minister does embarrass me as he repeatedly makes a foll of himself on the world stage. As a proud Australian I find it difficult talking to Americans when we are there every year. Americans are rather benign folk and they seek never to insult but you can sometimes tell what is behind the controlled face. I expect my leader not to act like a dill all the time. Clearly this one is not capable of that and the fact that you back the man says a lot wally.
    Your last line ignores what you are doing on this website wally. Whilst I an happy to debate genuine posters I will not roll over for trolls. Cheers.
    Paddles
    17th Nov 2014
    11:08pm
    Mick

    You declare yourself to be a world traveller but you continue to put shit on your own country, not to mention its leaders.

    Have you ever thought of relinquishing your Australian passport?
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    7:55am
    Well said Wally and Paddles! The last thing we need is a nutter like mick running around the world criticizing Australia. He should be treated as a terrorist and have his passport taken away!!
    MICK
    18th Nov 2014
    8:08am
    Unlike some of people who post on this site for political propaganda purposes (like Frank) I have only ever done what is in the interest of the nation Paddles. You won't catch me advocating anything which sells out the nation despite BOTH sides of politics running the nation like it was theirs to plunder.
    Did you hear Alan Jones' rant yesterday? Whilst I have little time for Jones after his "she lied" campaign (which he does not extend to the current multi-promise breaking PM) I give Jones the thumbs up for informing the nation that the Abbott trade deal with China looks like a one way deal. Apparently some 60 dairy farms in Victoria are either owned or in the process of being bought by the Chinese government. So what sort of deal is this for Australians? And can we buy farms in China?
    The sale of freehold farming land to foreign governments is something I have campaigned against for a number of years whilst the stoolies on this website continue to maintain that their man is the best thing since sliced cheese.
    By all means have a go at me Paddles, but unlike many here you won't find a stauncher defender of Australians than I....and I will not sell out future Australians. Both sides of politics do.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    8:50am
    I'm on Micks side here, What sort of a Deal is That ?? !! If the Chinese want Milk Buy the Milk off us !! Sell them the Farms ? How Ridiculous is that ? Where is this going ?
    Plus!!! They want to bring in their Own Workers ? We have an Unemployment problem in this country ! And Ratbag so called deals wont solve it !!And did You see the Cheshire Grin on Abbott ? He looked like He'd just found a Fiver !!
    Jen
    18th Nov 2014
    9:44am
    Aside from the irony of Australia selling off our productive land and the Chinese not reciprocating (they're not silly,) there is the problem of the way Chinese think about animals, at least in agriculture. Wait for the shocking news in years to come about gross cruelty on these Chinese owned farms, which will be kept hush hush for as long as they can. And before anyone says it, I'm also aware of similar cruelty by some of our own farmers.
    wally
    18th Nov 2014
    9:48am
    Hi mick. I hope you enjoy your trips to America. Have you found any Americans who are aware that not all Aussies go around with big knives and wrestle crocodiles in the streets on a daily basis? How many average Americans can identify who Australia's Prime Minister is anyway? ( and, as an American might ask, why should they? This might not be the most enlightened response you might get, but it would seem to be typical). Maybe you should go visit Solomon the next time you go over there to spread the good word! (Where is Solomon, anyway?)
    As far as making deals with the Chinese in concerned, it really is a case of "buyer/seller beware" as Chinese "investors" buy up big city mansions and agricultural property holus bolus. Obama is no doubt very proud of his climate change deal which has US industries committed to a 2016 carbon target which will not come into effect in China fourteen years later, until 2030. By that time, this deal will be forgotten and ignored but the disadvantages imposed on US industry and manufacturing will continue to mount. The Devil may be in the detail, but I for one would like to find out more about what the deals the Devils have done and have a look at the PUP we are being sold.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    11:13am
    What sort of Gutless Creeps have we got Trying to run this Country ! We are not a Mob of Crawlers !!..
    If You want to buy our Farms, We want to Buy the Great Wall of China Car Factory !! Now That's A Deal !! And stick all our workers in it at Proper Wages !!

    17th Nov 2014
    10:26am
    Whinging boofhead Abbott, once again an embarrassment on the world stage
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    12:22pm
    Boofhead was one of My Favourite Cartoons when I was young !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    12:42pm
    Yeah but that made more sense.
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    12:45pm
    I thought the only embarrassment was those so called Australians burning the Australian flag. They must have been planning it for months.
    KSS
    17th Nov 2014
    1:00pm
    But at least they had the freedom to burn the flag, Frank, regardless of the reasons for or rights or wrongs of doing so.
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    1:21pm
    Yes, I would have been more upset if they were non Australians burning the flag.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:26pm
    They should have been Jailed for 5 years for contravening Fire Ban Laws !!!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    1:34pm
    Burn the flag Australian or otherwise is UN Australian. They should be keelhauled then slapped in irons ' and sent to Parliament House to mow the Lawns.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:40pm
    And make sure that all the Cigars have Properly Extinguished !!
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:43pm
    Who stole the (been) ??
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:42pm
    trood: take note the posters above. Some are paid trolls here to diffuse opinion and attack anybody who opposes the current government.
    You are correct. TONY ABBOTT WAS (AND IS) A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO THIS NATION. Don't let the clowns above put you down. Many Australians agree with you.
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    8:29pm
    The been has had a co payment whacked on it by a troll. Yo gotta sing mammy before you get it back
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    8:37pm
    By joves those cigar butts on parliament lawn would have a fair bit of gravy on them to good for the loikes of them.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    8:44pm
    Ole Stogies I have found !
    Short! But not too Big Around !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    9:03pm
    Aye laddie they be the one's gastric banded.
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    11:00am
    What a great idea to have the G20 in Australia!
    With world leaders removed from their respective domestic political foes and focussed on positive outcomes. More jobs, more trade, more growth. Of course the flow on effect, and the ultimate goal is, less poverty and better availability to essentials such as food, water, health care, education.
    Let's just hope that we have been good negotiators with the FTA's, firstly with Japan and Korea, but more importantly with China.
    I know, all FTA's don't need to be a one way street, and they can be used to help a smaller trading partner bolster their economy. However, the 2009 FTA with Chile is one in which we import twice as much as we export.
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    10:35pm
    I wonder which party put together the Chile FTA?
    It was their only deal in 6 years and you would have thought it was the biggest deal in history.
    OK, here's another clue, Dr Craig Emerson was the trade minister.
    They partied for a year on that one deal.
    Ruby
    17th Nov 2014
    11:33am
    The planet has been warming for over 10,000 years. Except for a mini ice age in the 18th century. The Thames froze at that time. What scientists don't tell is whether the Earth as tilted on its axis since that time. Even a slight shift can account for an increase in temperatures in some parts of the world.

    What is happening now is nothing new. Contrary to the beliefs of some people. Governments are not Gods. THEY CANNOT STOP CLIMATE CHANGE.

    After the 2nd world war. Some people blamed the Atomic bomb for a change in the weather. NO MATTER WHAT THE PEOPLE OF AUSTRALIA DO THEY WON'T MAKE THE SLIGHTEST DIFFERENCE TO THE CLIMATE.

    Ruby
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    11:47am
    Ruby, are you saying we didn't need to borrow that $10b to give to Al Gore?
    FrankC
    17th Nov 2014
    11:48am
    Yes Ruby, it has tilted a further 3 degrees to what it was 60 ears ago.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    12:19pm
    Australia has Tilted 3 Degrees to the Right !! To Compensate !!
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    12:39pm
    Volcanic action & bush fires put more carbon into the atmosphere than anything else.
    There are around 200 active volcanoes spewing out, every day!

    As long as there are active volcanoes & bush fires throughout the world, whatever
    we do will not make any noticable differance.

    I noticed it's not called Global Warming anymore - just Climate Change.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    1:01pm
    You are wrong Ruby. CO2 went ballistic around 1950 and has increased to levels way beyond those in the last 600 000 years....a bit longer than the 10 000 years you mention. Have a look at the graph on the following link:

    http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    Even the coal funded trolls cannot argue with the source: NASA. This is bit one piece of the growing jigsaw puzzle so perhaps be open minded rather than be in denial.

    miss aisle: your posts continue to show signs of you being part of the group on this site who post as individuals but who are paid trolls. Your information is WRONG and you have NO FACTS. But then 'facts' were something that this slogan prime minister did not have any time for either. Please look at the following link which refutes your statement:

    http://news.discovery.com/earth/weather-extreme-events/volcanoes-co2-people-emissions-climate-110627.htm

    Yes....humans are estimated to emit around 135 TIMES WHAT VOLCANOES EMIT. And of course you fail to mention that volcanoes erupt for days of weeks, sometimes, whilst human activity is running 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Funny that. But else would one expect from people who are trying to massage opinion to get an election result.
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    1:10pm
    Well mick, just like scientists views differ, so do ours !

    You do not have the authority to say whose wrong or right !

    We all have evidence to back our opinions !
    (don't forget to call me a troll when you answer)
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    1:28pm
    Oh, here goes mick and his name calling again! The only possible paid troll on here in my opinion. You can tell by the way he has NO HARD FACTS to back his argument.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:36pm
    "Well I'll put a plug in Krakatoa Batman !!"
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    1:38pm
    So it all comes down to who can shout the loudest in support of his/her favourite point of view. Just as there are "Lies, more lies and statistics" there are also "Statistics, more statistics and lies". to baffle us all with.
    So instead of swallowing Obama's load of crap about global warming , the shrinking ozone layer, (Does anybody else remember that one? What ever happened to the disappearing Ozone layer? When it was gone, the Sun's rays were going to cook us all, or something, or maybe we would all drown when the Polar ice caps and the glaciers all melted. That is, unless the sun's rays evaporated all the water on earth and then we'd all die of thirst! Or something else bad would happen! Scare mongering at its most dire, I am sure.) the pollution caused by Carbon dioxide production which must stop before we are all overwhelmed by the expansive, explosive growth of the world's plants that will some how overwhelms us all? After all, look what the Cambodian jungle did to Ankor Wat!.
    Would Mr. Obama and his fan and supporter (and embarrassed world traveller) mick have us believe that we should borrow billions to entrust to Al Gore on his say so? If Gore, mick and Obama are right, Australians should instead stimulate our economy by employing local people to build dikes and seawalls along the coastline to protect us from rising seas. That would be a more positive result than blowing the loot on some vague it might happen one day "pie in the sky" scheme cooked up by Gore, Obama, the Greenies and their acolytes like mick.
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    1:53pm
    Sensible & logical comment, wally.

    mick, there are about 200 volcanoes spewing every day - but not always the same
    ones.

    Frank - I don't know what I did for laughs before interacting with facinating people !
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    2:20pm
    Ruby, the experts tell us the Earth has been in existence for 4,700 million years.
    For my money all these different conditions must have happened 1,000s of times.
    I blame the odd 1 or 2 degree changes all the nut cases are screaming about on the Internet.
    GO FIGURE.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    2:30pm
    Even My Monitor is measuring 98.6 Degrees at the moment ?? I think its almost Human ??
    KSS
    17th Nov 2014
    2:31pm
    Wally, Australia has just secured the agreement to become the global hub for world infrastructure. We should be in a good position to build those dams you mention, lol.
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    2:36pm
    particolor, what is 98.6 Degrees? my converter is overheating.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    2:58pm
    Its old language for Your Temperature !! I think its 37 C !
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    3:10pm
    MICK.. That's about the time Yellowstone Popped its Cork in the USA !!..
    Beware of Super Volcanoes !!
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:50pm
    wally and miss aisle: I can see that two political paid trolls hard at work. What a load of crap you both write.

    miss aisle: you are rather sad if people actually believed anything you wrote. Look at the link and then post. Oh I forget: like your master the facts mean little when you can lie and not be called to account.

    wally: you go out of your way to produce a whole load of useless garbage. As with all climate deniers you try to avoid the facts and look at old issues and CHOOSE to ignore the latest evidence. I suppose you are still lamenting about John Howard losing the election as well.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    4:59pm
    Poor Johnny !! He has to try and survive on a few Hundred Thousand a Year Now !!
    Must be an awful Struggle ??
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    5:42pm
    mick - what are you trying to say - "you are rather sad if people actually believed
    anything you wrote" ...
    I wouldn't be sad if people actually believed anything I wrote .....
    Try not to be so sad mick
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:47pm
    Good try. Readers get the gist when certain posters ignore the facts and try to dolly up one side of politics. From what I can see there are a few posters on this site who continually make this government out to be other than what it is.
    People can believe this but please do not take my word for that. Read the spiels from the paid posters and decide for yourself. Its not too hard to work out.
    Anonymous
    17th Nov 2014
    7:17pm
    Wally, wally, wally, you are such a wally! Like Nero, fiddle while Rome burns in the meantime keep an eye on those polar ice caps.
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    8:58pm
    Hi mick. Thank you for the compliment when you suggest the quality of my posts should earn me a paid income and become a professional S**t Stirrer. If only this were the case! Then I would be able to move out of the soggy paste board box I live in next to the mud puddle here in High Street Humpyville. I do wish you would try to instruct your apprentice trood in the esoteric fields of logic and word writing so that this individual could make the first halting steps toward being a coherent writer.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    9:53pm
    Don't you think it strange wally that Frank above claims that I have no facts when I routinely supply links and make calls which have come from reputable sources. This is where the trolls on this website fall down. They only thing they can call on is slogans similar to what Tony Abbott used endlessly during the election. Do yourself a favour wally: the next time you want to deny what has been generally accepted then supply the appropriate information, not tell porkies.
    Abby
    18th Nov 2014
    8:37am
    How do you get on the pay list ?
    Either " professional S**t Stirrer." or "paid troll " will do fine Thanks
    wally
    18th Nov 2014
    9:27am
    I wish mick would tell me where the "paid troll" employment queue is for the government, coal producers and the other "anti Climate Change fearmongers". I would like to get on the payroll for reasons I have supplied earlier.
    Having discussed how we all have our own favourite viewpoints, we should all recognize that one person's "fact" might smell like "bull dust" (to be polite) to another. We should also be mature enough not to take disagreeing points of view so personally that we must resort to abuse when we run out arguments to present. So let us leave name calling to the naughty children in the school yard where such behaviour might be more appropriate.
    miss aisle
    18th Nov 2014
    2:09pm
    I've been called a troll as well wally, - yes, point me in the direction of the queue !
    If mick supposes I'm a troll now, just wait until I get paid for it!
    You ain't seen nothing yet!
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    7:19pm
    miss aisle, join the club. The trolls are starting to outnumber the non trolls.
    maxchugg
    17th Nov 2014
    11:58am
    Why not give the subject of global warming a rest?
    The earth has not warmed in over 16 years according to the 4 main datasets are used by the IPCC. For those who, like David Suzuki on Q&A have never heard of them, they are UAH (University of Alabama – Huntsville); RSS (Remote Sensing Systems - Santa Rosa California); HadCRUT ( Hadley Centre, British Meterological Office); GISS (Goddard Institute for Space Studies)
    Not only is the The Arctic ice not vanishing, it is recovering extremely rapidly after reaching the lowest point since satellite recording commenced in 1978. The Antarctic ice is at record levels.
    The sea level failed to obey the warmist predictions in 2000 that the Maldives would be under water in 10 years because of rising sea levels. They are still dry, still in the tourist brochures.
    Building a dam near Brisbane was going to be a waste of money because extended droughts would ensure that it never filled. It filled, overflowed, and Brisbane suffered flood damage.
    When an increase in the area of the Arctic ice could no longer be denied, the story was that while the area had been restored, the ice was extremely thin. This story has since been debunked, the ice is back to normal thickness.
    The polar bears were facing extinction because of loss of habitat. But they are currently at record numbers and you can still buy a permit to hunt them.
    The Northwest Passage was going to open up. At least 10 foolish yacht owners swallowed this one and decided to go through. They didn't, their yachts are still there, frozen in awaiting destruction by the expanding ice.
    Much has been made of a massive increase in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which was supposed to exacerbate global warming. It hasn't, all it has done is make plants grow faster, as any nurseryman could have predicted.
    Forget the computer models which suffer from a serious GIGO problem (Garbage In, Garbage Out) and look at the evidence which is perfectly clear, climate change is ever present, global warming is an unsustainable myth.
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    12:41pm
    I agree maxchugg, let's give it a rest! I cant watch the ABC without hearing about Victoria or Climate change! At least in a months time it will only be Climate Change on the ABC.
    Sen.Cit.90
    17th Nov 2014
    12:52pm
    Hi Maxchugg,
    Thank you I wanted to say a lot but your input says it all for me.
    I hope the basher's of Australia's Prime Minister read it; the way I heard Mr. Abbot, it sounded like he is in step with the rest of the world.
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    12:59pm
    Yes, Sen.Cit.84 - Tony Abbott hosted it with dignity & hospitality.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    1:09pm
    The only reason it was brought up Max is because our lemon leader again put both of his feet in his mouth...and was sent packing by Obama who would not have a bar of it. But then Obama is not owned by the coal industry.
    Whilst you keep trotting out the denier rhetoric Max you miss the point that global warming is occurring and that this is accepted by 97% of the world's scientists (other than those funded with coal money), by the IPCC, by the UN and now by a growing list of world leaders (the ones who have not prostituted themselves to the fossil fuel industries). Your continued claim about temperatures going down again ignore the way nature works at all levels: just like you can have a reversal hot day in the middle of autumn but this does not mean that winter is over. So why do you and other deniers keep insisting that a few down years means there is no global warming?
    Please not the scientists have not abandoned their models despite the coal funded deniers spreading their propaganda.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:16pm
    Enjoy Your Indian Summer Next Year !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    1:30pm
    We are all going on a summer holiday where?
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:38pm
    Doing things We always
    Wanted To !!
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    2:17pm
    mick, - Obama has plenty of other problems to worry about -
    Climate change is a welcomed diversion for him.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:53pm
    miss aisle: Tony Abbott has even more to worry about and climate change is but one of these.
    The government is going to lose the next election despite the efforts of its army of paid opinion posters (trolls). You can't lie to the people as much as this man has and steal money out of their bank accounts with dishonest budgets and expect to be re-elected. But this misfit does exactly that. Its all over dear so look for another job.
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    5:45pm
    mick, - now come on... if you keep writing that stuff, you'll end up
    really believing it yourself.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:48pm
    You can live in denial if you like miss aisle.
    Anonymous
    17th Nov 2014
    7:27pm
    I have to laugh Miss aisle, Abbott dignified?!! in a hundred years this 'foot in mouth' bumbling idiot wouldn't even look dignified in his coffin!
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    9:03pm
    I remember seeing the "Dignified" Kevin Rudd nibbling on his ear wax on You Tube. Now that is real, gen you wine ALP?Labor dignity!
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    9:27pm
    An Acquired taste with an Waxy overtone !! Pleasing to the Palate !
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    9:56pm
    Very funny trood. And of course wally predictably comes back with the normal rot. At least both Rudd and Gillard were capable of speaking to an audience without both of their feet in their mouths.
    What, no slant at Gillard wally? Come on mate...don't be a wally.
    KSS
    18th Nov 2014
    6:50am
    "Fair shake of the sauce bottle" Mick. Mr Rudd suffered badly from foot-in-mouth dis-ease!
    MICK
    18th Nov 2014
    8:10am
    Seriously KSS. Its chalk and cheese mate.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    12:26pm
    And I never heard another thing about the Navy ?? Was that another Shut Up ??
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    12:45pm
    But but they flew two jets over the site. Only found a coast guard boat. Someone flexing something.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:52pm
    Silence is Golden !!
    But My eyes still see !!
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    3:50pm
    The Coral Sea Triangle ??
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    12:35pm
    G20 In Australia one could be forgiven thinking it was in America. Barrack hijacked the spotlight and relegated Our beloved leader to minority participants. Australia should ask for it's money ???? back . What a laughing ???? stock they were made to look. Vlad must have been having a hard time trying to contain it when the Shirtfront Kid gets up on stage and snivels about the gp co payment and how the public was making it hard for him. Its called democracy Tony. For crisake give me a break. No wonder he left early
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    1:12pm
    Yes Kato. A total embarrassment. We must be looking like a nation of idiots overseas by now.
    Abbott is a dead loss and the sooner Turnbull is trotted out (he will be) the sooner this dead beat government gets real leadership....not that it can escape the 'owned by the coal industry' tag. THAT IS WHY WE NEED TO BAN DONATIONS AND PUBLICLY FUND ALL ELECTIONS WHILST MAKING IT ILLEGAL TO NOW OR EVEN AFTER POLITICS GET A PAY BACK OF ANY SORT. So what chance is there of getting this to happen?
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    1:46pm
    And means test the pensions the Politicians get when they leave parliament, as well as put a sunset clause on the perks they get as well. How many tax payer funded airplane rides was Gough ( for example) entitled to take?
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:46pm
    Mr Buckly would like to comment here Mick but He doesn't have one ??
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:55pm
    I agree with that wally. You are not as dumb as some of your government sponsored posts appear. Funny how you and the other trolls always refer any issue with this government back to the Labor side of politics. Is that what they brief you to do at the Liberal Party induction program?
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    5:31pm
    Poor old Mick, he hasn't got a comprehendible comment to make, so as 2nd prize he bags the LIBBERAL supporters.
    What's that old saying, "You get one at every kindergarten", or something like that.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    5:45pm
    You even get an Extra B in your LIBBERAL BBonet for second Prize Here !!!
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    5:51pm
    Yeh when you have 2 middle fingers it gets awkward, especially when I salute somebody.
    Usually that's only my wife when I stuff up, about a 100 times a day on a good day.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:51pm
    Not bagging supporters. Go for it.
    What I am bagging is folk who post propaganda on this site and who are clearly employees Young Simmo. When you keep reading posts which ignore the facts and the make this government out to be squeaky clean when it is rotten to the core one can only come to one conclusion.
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    5:57pm
    Mick a lot of people have a chip on their shoulder, but you seem to be carrying 100 year old Gum Tree. Careful with the Koalas.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    5:59pm
    but they wont stand still for Blind Fold and Cigarette ??
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    9:10pm
    Thanks again for your complimentary suggestion that my posts are worthy of getting paid money for. As I have replied in an earlier (Above) post, this is unfortunately not the case!
    By the way, with all the capital letters in your above post, I am beginning to think you might be channelling mussitate.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    9:58pm
    I wouldn't pay you for some of the stuff you post wally but it appears that the government is worried about its re-election chances. It should be because this government has lost all trust and people are beginning to slowly wake up to the fact that they are being done over.
    Rob
    17th Nov 2014
    12:35pm
    The climate change agreement between China and the USA does as I understand allow China to continue for another 16 yrs without any cap and Obama knows he hasn't a hope in hell of getting it through congress.

    Maybe we need to tie any changes we may make to the successful adoption in the USA and/or wait 16yrs.
    Ming
    17th Nov 2014
    12:58pm
    Yes those shrewed orientals have played the USA off a break.
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    1:07pm
    China owns the majority of Americas Debt?
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    1:15pm
    Obama will not be the President after the next election, either way. But if the world moves on Carbon, other than backwater Australia, then America will follow suit.
    On China Rob you have to remember that China is the world leader in solar panels and that it takes time to reduce emissions, so they will not leave it until the bitter end lest they look like gooses to the rest of the world. Remember that the Chinese do not like to lose face. It will happen.
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    2:05pm
    Rob, - .... and in 16 years time, it will be set for another 16 years !

    But that's OK, it keeps people happy just to have a plan.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    7:21pm
    It will be a long time before China and India stop using coal powered energy.
    Ming
    17th Nov 2014
    12:56pm
    Well I never! the usual suspects are on the ran tan again. Rather than be embarrassed about the Prime Minister, get a life. surely you can't be serious about Mr Shorten ever being our PM.
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    1:04pm
    Yes Ericjoan, You'd think they'd put politics aside for one day & take Tony Abbott
    at face value. Wouldn't have been easy for anyone, but he did a remarkable job.
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    1:14pm
    The same rantan about shorten you seem to be the only one enamoured enough to mention blinky bill. I think you would find the consensus of opinion regarding his efforts would be the same humorous.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:58pm
    Who mentioned Shorten? Surely you take each political leader at face value FOR WHAT THEY DO? If not then you have an agenda1
    Again, it is Tony Abbott who is the current leader of the country and it is Tony Abbott who embarrassed the country AGAIN. Surely even the once great Liberal Party needs to replace this man with somebody who is not an embarrassment.
    dougie
    17th Nov 2014
    1:43pm
    Let us say a word of thanks to the Police from Australian states and New Zealand. They at least kept the peace and saw to i t that the radical side did not rise to burn half the city down or to wreck the banks. There was no anarchy on the streets as there has been in other G20 meetings around the world. Congratulations ! In fact the only radicals I saw or heard were Little Billy Shortening and the ABC Editorial staff.I will only congratualte Tony Abbott and Malcom Turnbull when the ABC has it's budget cut back. Lets hope that they have to do away with shows like Q&A and some of the radical left wing commentators.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    1:55pm
    Hip Hip !! HOORAY !! ...Hip Hip........
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    2:01pm
    We take the police for granted don't we? Good to acknowledge their excellent work.
    Agree with your comment on ABC
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:21pm
    Yeah right dougie.
    The ABC is the ONLY independent media major media outlet which is not controlled by the Murdoch Press and big business media barons.....who run their propaganda campaigns to get their puppets in. This government and its dishonest oaf of a leader should surely be the clearest example of this.
    So now you want to remove the only media source which dares to say anything against the government or debate the hard questions? Why? Because Abbott and his cronies hate criticism...unless they are dishing it out. This is what happens in military juntas: total control of the media.
    By all means go on about the left wing radical element. This is the same sort of crap one has to listen to with climate change debate where the coal funded trolls run the 'its not happening' nonsense.
    Be careful what you ask for dougie. You might just get it.....and then have a business owned government which never changes.
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    8:25pm
    Yes good job? Now get them back on the streets and see what they really can do.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    8:28am
    The ABC has become the biggest media organisation in Australia and produces non stop political crap!! Anyone who thinks the ABC is independent would also think the likes of Oakeshott, Thompson, Slipper and Windsor where also Independents. The ABC is truly anti Australian. I don't mind watching the Insiders get stuck into the government but I do not like paying for criticism masked as independent analysis.
    I also detest the more subtle swipes at the government on various other programs.
    miss aisle
    18th Nov 2014
    9:56am
    The ABC should remember whose buttering their bread.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    11:22am
    Is the Butter Halal ??
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    11:27am
    I don't think only 5% less butter will trim the fat enough.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    11:33am
    I've hear Late Line and a couple of other Programs have got the Axe already ??
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    11:41am
    As the cuts take effect we will notice the rhetoric towards Abbott becoming stronger.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    11:53am
    SUPER Tony !! Who came to Australia with Powers and Ability's far beyond those of Mortal Pollies !!...
    Where's the CRYPTONITE ??
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    2:15pm
    WOW, Queenslanders Bellyaching about a couple of 40 degree days, what a mob of Cry-babies. In my local pub it got up to 28 degrees and I didn't say BOO.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    3:03pm
    Even My Beer Boiled Over ??
    Pammie70
    17th Nov 2014
    2:29pm
    After all the waffle from the G20 about what our illustrious leader is going to do from all the talking he did. Shouldn't he come back down to earth to reality to the Australian people and sort out his own mistakes here?.

    I just feel a bit uneasy about all this *STUFF* he's getting into. I am certainly not a JOBES COMFORTER by any means, but the more his head swells,. the quicker we get forgotten, he must remember how he got to be PM in the first place, by the Australian People!!!! My Gut Feelings are always right.!!!!
    a
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    3:24pm
    Send Him a bigger Life Savers Cap !!
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:24pm
    Abbott made a complete fool of himself during the meeting. First the 'shirt fronting' comment...to which Putin replied with a bit of 'boat fronting. Second he ranted on about his (domestic) achievements.....resulting in Obama hitting Abbott right between the eyes. What a dill. I am so embarrassed.
    Sceptic
    17th Nov 2014
    4:45pm
    So you should be embarrassed mick. Every thing you write is a an embarrassing rant.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:03pm
    Living in denial and ignoring the facts and the truth come easy to some folk Sceptic. Have you noticed that a number of the same posters all behave the same:
    1. ignore any irrefutable facts.
    2. change the subject to take the heat off the current PM.
    3. answer any attack on this government or its leader with a reference to Labor
    The signs are there for all to see. My 'rant' as you call it is an attempt to stop the grooming of people, something which a group of posters are doing. My embarrassment is because I am a genuine Australian who seeks honesty and fairness. Sadly Sceptic the posters I mention above have sold their souls for a few bucks and they are not 'Australians' in the true sense of the word. We do not stand for the values which you and some others bring to this site.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    5:15pm
    Where can I buy Grooming Repellent ??
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:52pm
    Liberal Party headquarters.
    Anonymous
    17th Nov 2014
    7:37pm
    send him a bigger surf lifesavers cap?, don't forget a small budgie smuggler!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    9:02pm
    The goss on the boards is that Tones is auditioning for the Al Jolson remake. Swaneeee don't ya ? love meaaay.
    KSS
    17th Nov 2014
    2:29pm
    The G20 is an economic forum and as such Mr Abbott and Mr Hockey were right to insist the global economic issues were placed at and remained at the top of the agenda. Climate change was about item 19 I believe quite a long way from the top priority of this meeting.

    Mr Obama has lost control in the US after the recent mid term elections and as such is no longer able to get any domestic issues through the Government. He therefore only has the international stage to play to. There are other far more relevant forums for him and others to make their case for climate change. I think it was a disgrace that he attempted to hijack this economic forum to benefit his own agenda. Mr Abbott was right not to commit Australian taxpayers money to this new global fund for climate change. For goodness sake people were complaining last week about the cost of the meeting. What would they have said if Mr Abbott had agreed to contribute funding? How many pensioners could have had a pay rise, schools/hospitals built etc etc with that money? Mr Abbott said we couldn't afford it and acted accordingly. It matters not whether individuals agree or not with that position.

    If the countries who signed up to the commitment outcomes follow through, the world and its poor (including Australian pensioners and women and children) will be in a better position in years to come.
    dougie
    17th Nov 2014
    2:35pm
    China has freedom to do nothing for 30 years on the Climate change issue and unfortunately for Obama his own Government have said "Not in our backyard". He is only tilting at windmills.
    dougie
    17th Nov 2014
    2:35pm
    China has freedom to do nothing for 30 years on the Climate change issue and unfortunately for Obama his own Government have said "Not in our backyard". He is only tilting at windmills.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    2:38pm
    Don Quick Oats would be proud of Him !!
    miss aisle
    17th Nov 2014
    4:07pm
    Agree KSS, -Global economic issues have the most impact on humanity, so I think it was right that they were on top of the list.
    They address the basics of life, which are paramount to our wellbeing & survival.
    Obama may believe the words in his speech or maybe they're just a diversion from his lack of popularity in his own country. The money he wants to contribute would be better spent in America.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:28pm
    You are gilding the lily KSS along with your government mates on this forum. I note that you did not mention the $8 billion a year handed to the fossil fuel industry with the repeal of the Carbon Tax. Funny that. I also note that you make no mention of the attack on ordinary Australians in the budget whilst the rich got a tax cut.
    So who did you say you are associated with?
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    4:42pm
    mick, labor gave them $30b.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:09pm
    Frank: In 4 years this government will exceed that figure.
    I am not protecting Labor as I support neither side. What I am trying to achieve is honesty, transparency and putting the truth out there to cancel out the media whose reporting contains intentional bias to protect its side of politics.
    How about you and the other trolls campaign against fund raising for elections. It should be banned and it should be made a criminal offense to get a pay off at any time during or after holding public office. What do you say?
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:10pm
    I thought so.
    KSS
    17th Nov 2014
    6:33pm
    Mick the topic for discussion was the climate change linked in the article to the G20 meeting. I confined my comments to the said topic. You on the other hand have said little on the subject but much on other issues with the usual peppering of name calling and insults to other respondents.

    And just so you fully understand, I have never said whether or not I am associated with anyone.
    Adrianus
    17th Nov 2014
    7:27pm
    mick, your labor mates must have been short of campaign funds because the Unions gave them $20m.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    10:01pm
    You keep throwing around figures Frank. Please give me a non liberal party link so that I can be educated.
    niemakawa
    17th Nov 2014
    4:02pm
    The G20 meeting seems to have been a great success, much to the chagrin of the media and the " Abbott haters". I don't think Mr Abbott is ignoring climate change as suggested, but the focus was on economic growth. There are many other forums involving this group which deal with climate change, so it was not that important on this particular occasion.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:32pm
    Here we go political troll. Only a moron or a troll would claim that Abbott is not ignoring climate change. Have you forgotten? "Climate change crap" and the destruction of every mechanism which switch Australians over to clean FREE energy.
    People do generally not "hate" Abbott. The issue is that this government and its leader are owned by the coal industry and are in government to move money out of the bank accounts of average Australians and into the bank accounts of the rich. Rather sick, really. So are your posts.
    niemakawa
    17th Nov 2014
    4:38pm
    Mick, you have just proven your ignorance yet again. Unless you can be civil there is no point in responding to my comments. Please refrain from doing so.
    BobK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:42pm
    I think you are right, Niemakawa.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:13pm
    Civil? I try to be niemakawa but it is hard when I have to read posts from people employed to hold the government line.
    I keep asking that we debate the facts. This is something which trolls never can do because their job is very quickly undermined when you start to put your cards down.
    Your comment above AGAIN ignores the facts as you attempt to groom the audience with dishonesty.
    niemakawa
    17th Nov 2014
    5:22pm
    Mick, I have asked you not to reply to my posts, and I would be grateful if you would do as I ask. I am not in anyway interested in what you have to say.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    5:25pm
    On a Train Bound for Nowhere !!
    Anonymous
    17th Nov 2014
    6:35pm
    Mr Abbott highlighted foreign aid funding which already goes to climate programs, as well as the Government's $2.5 billion emissions reduction fund, and the $10 billion allocated by the previous government to the clean energy finance corporation.

    "So, we are doing a very great deal and I suppose, given what we are doing, we don't intend, at this time, to do more," Mr Abbott said.
    KSS
    17th Nov 2014
    6:45pm
    niemakawa, Mick is incapable of civility if or when someone has a different view to his. I have fought the same battle you are now.
    Anonymous
    17th Nov 2014
    7:32pm
    Abbott's start with the "poor me" they won't let me slug the poor the $7 doctor's fee was nothing short of embarrassing.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    10:05pm
    You certainly have the figures Pete. Seems like you are reading off the party trolling documents.
    I sort of agree with you trood. It goes a lot further though because the reason for the repeal of the Carbon Tax was nothing more than the coal lobby and probably election funding as the coal, oil and gas industries now get $8 billion a year from taxpayers. Don't you feel good that the Carbon Tax was repealed? Yeah, me to!!
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    9:14am
    What a Great Life You are all enjoying here in the Land of Fudgy Figures !!
    nan
    17th Nov 2014
    4:03pm
    The one thing that make me smile was that for all the talk anout climate change and the world becoming hotter, they all continued to wear their suits in Brisbane's 40+ heat.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    4:31pm
    Speedos were Banned !! Not allowed in CBD !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    9:24pm
    To racy no doubt.
    BobK
    17th Nov 2014
    4:34pm
    Mick,
    "...CO2 went ballistic around 1950 and has increased to levels way beyond those in the last 600 000 years....a bit longer than the 10 000 years you mention. Have a look at the graph on the following link: http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
    Even the coal funded trolls cannot argue with the source: NASA. This is bit one piece of the growing jigsaw puzzle so perhaps be open minded rather than be in denial. "
    Seems like you are confused about what you are reading, otherwise it wouldn't be a puzzle to you: Ruby is talking about temperature, and you are talking about how much CO2 is in the atmosphere. I am sure you realise those are two different things. Temperature has not much to do with CO2 contents, the causation there is not very strong. After all, you yourself say that "CO2 went ballistic around 1950", yet the very first climate change scare was in 1970s, and it was about new Ice Age coming. Just ask ex-NASA's Hansen, he was one of the first to jump on that ice-age bandwagon, only later did he change to Global Warming. Or read "The Weather Conspiracy - The coming of the New Ice Age", published in 1977, ISBN 0-345-27209-9. You see, that was not long after the "CO2 went ballistic", yet temperatures were heading down, not up. We are experiencing similar situation right now - for the past 16-18 years, CO2 has been increasing steadily, yet the global temperature stays at 1997 levels.
    As I say, CO2 ain't temperature.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:28pm
    Thanks for looking at the link BobK, something that the trolls on this site refuse to do. You are throwing a whole pile of things into the washing machine and turning it on. One at a time.
    1. CO2
    I respectfully state it is you who is confused about the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere. There is a lot of information available. I just opened 3 links which gave a commentary like: "The bottom line is that atmospheric carbon dioxide acts as a thermostat in regulating the temperature of Earth........."
    Your dismissal of CO2 does not agree with the science BobK.
    2. Ice age? There were/are predictions of an possible ice age but you need to view this is the context of the time frame. It is not a heat wave one year and an ice age the next and you need to understand that nature works in time frames of decades if not hundreds of years.
    Perhaps you can read a bit and gain more information. The truth will set you free.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    7:39pm
    I've noticed My Tea stays Hotter Longer now ??
    BobK
    17th Nov 2014
    11:08pm
    Mick,
    you seem to be replying to something I didn't write.
    First, I did not dismiss CO2. What I said was that "Temperature has not much to do with CO2 contents, the causation there is not very strong", and I gave you two examples of divergence between contents of CO2 and temperature: one in 1970's, the other one now, since 1997. Based on that alone, logical conclusion would be that it is not CO2 driving temperature, but something much, much stronger than that. Assertion that CO2, one single component, is driving temperature is a notion, which is a theory at best; decent theory must produce much more rigorous predictions than what this one has delivered so far. Those 105 IPCC climate models, all based on the theory, deliver 105 completely different results, with maybe one of them having any resemblance to real world.
    As for your second point: your suggestion that I need to "… understand that nature works in time frames of decades if not hundreds of years…": I understand, and accept it (btw, your recommendation would be probably better directed to Mr. Leon Della Bosca, the author of the article we are both commenting on. In his opening sentence he says "… Queensland’s weather… made it clear that the need for climate action would remain a hot topic…". His opinion pieces would be more credible if he accepted your suggestion – but I digress). There are, however, many other people, for whom one hot day of one summer in one city of one continent is enough to convince them that the Global Warming is real. That's wrong. It doesn't make GW any more real than the 'Coldest November Weather in Decades' they are experiencing right now from Texas to Wyoming (here: http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/wyoming-colorado-exceptional-cold-nuri/37351786), or the '…expected record lows as far south as Atlanta' (here: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/11/snow-and-record-low-temperatures-from-powerful-cold-snap-blast-midwest) make an ice age into reality. Leon and thousands of others confuse weather with climate.
    I am glad we both agree on need for decadal and even centennial time frames, so let's have a look at them: In 1982, New York Times printed that "warming of world's climate [was] expected to begin in the 80s" (see here: http://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/07/us/warming-of-world-s-climate-expected-to-begin-in-the-80-s.html). For argument sake, say it started right next year, in 1983. The temperature kept slowly rising, in agreement with numerous climate models. In 1997, just fourteen years later the science was, according to US president Clinton "clear and compelling", that we, humans "are changing the global climate". It took very short time indeed to accept that Global Warming as real.
    Then things changed. While models built on that theory kept predicting soaring temperatures, the real measurements remained flat, and have been flat now for 16 to 18 years.
    I am sure you now see where I am going: if 14 years is long enough to accept a theory as good, then surely 16-18 years of that theory failing reality check is long enough to reject it as falsified? We don't need to argue about that, do we?
    And finally, that extra bit of reading would do you a great deal of good, too. Trust me on that one.

    Particolor,
    yes, I have noticed the same phenomenon recently, too.
    I will wait & see whether it remains the same next winter as well :-)
    maxchugg
    17th Nov 2014
    4:57pm
    According to Mick, a few down years do not mean that there is no global warming.
    How do you win in the face of such an argument? If the scientifically based datasets had shown a steady increase in global temperature over the past 16 years, they would be trumpeted as irrefutable proof that Al Gore's fairy stories were correct, but doing the opposite, they are ignored. If the datasets showed temperatures rising over 16 years the evil fossil fuel industries would never have dared to argue that a few up years do not prove global warming.
    As for 97% of scientists agreeing that global warming is real, I would have expected this figure to be 100% because the moment a "climate scientist" takes into account the mass of evidence indicating that global warming is not real, and the absence of any evidence other than GIGO affected computer programs to support the theory, he is immediately kicked out of the club and his opinions no longer count.
    Finally, Mick's accusations against the fossil fuel industry are, like the theory of global warming, unsupported by any evidence, and probably defammatory.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:41pm
    Why do the deniers always use Al Gore as their pin up boy?
    Your position defies any logic max. Do you want a discussion or are you posting for a third party?
    I am happy to lose an argument on climate change, really. Just give me irrefutable evidence from respected sources.
    Your 'opinion' misses several facts:
    1. temperatures are indeed rising only not as fast as initially predicted. So there is something which has not been taken into account.
    2. you work in time spans of years. I think that your time scale might be a bit short.
    3. there is NO MASS OF EVIDENCE that global warming is not real. The only so called "evidence" you have is from coal, oil and gas funded scientists, think tanks and the right wing media which is owned by big business interests and which cannot be trusted for truthful reporting.
    And finally you claim defamation max? This tells me that the facts must be beginning to bite. Perhaps you should ask the Liberal Party if it took donations from the fossil fuel industry.
    I continue to offer one and all a debate involving THE FACTS. I do not however have interest in debating slogans because these are the tools of dishonest government.
    maxchugg
    17th Nov 2014
    11:12pm
    Mick wants facts, then argues that temperatures are rising but not as fast as predicted. Yet the facts according to the best evidence available, the four datasets, clearly indicate that there has been no rise in global temperatures for over 16 years, and as they supply data to the IPCC it is unlikely that they have been influenced by the fossil fuel industry.
    Mick wants facts, but only gives opinions which have their origins in computer models which have consistently made predictions that have totally failed within months, so are hardly useful for predicting climate a decade hence, the previously cited case of the Maldives being one of the many examples available.
    Facts have been extremely damaging to the cause of the global warming alarmists, as was demonstrated by the leaked emails from the University of East Anglia, to cite just one example.
    mangomick
    18th Nov 2014
    1:31am
    Climate change is a fact whether its man induced people will argue right up to the day that we can no longer breath the air we breath. Why would any one want to burn coal to produce power when there is clean alternatives. Come up to Gladstone and see the yellow haze of NOx that spreads across the skyline. Come and look at the acidic ash pond outflows that flow into the rivers and oceans.
    We can't transition away from coal overnight but why try to sell all of the Nations resources in the next few decades leaving no strategic reserves for our grand children and why dig up productive farming land in the hunter valley and wreck it for ever just because of the greed of a few multi national companies who don't care about families or for tomorrow.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    7:42am
    You would have to be an idiot to live in Gladstone. Have a look at the government statistics on cancer. Gladstone has the highest rate in the country!!
    mangomick
    18th Nov 2014
    10:51am
    Trouble with reading anything into statistics like that is that most of Gladstones population has come here from somewhere else and spent most of their earlier years in the city so pretty hard to make a generalised statement like that.
    Been to Sydney and Melbourne and don't know if that's anything to crow about.
    While I work in Gladstone I lived on a property away from the place
    maxchugg
    18th Nov 2014
    11:38am
    Mangomick, there is no dispute that climate change is a fact, it is ever present, and of course something should be done to put an end to the kind of atmospheric pollution to which you refer. But that something is not having people like the President of the USA using a Boeing 747 to travel to a conference in Copenhagen before lecturing everyone on how they should reduce their carbon footprint.
    David Suzuki's appearance on Q&A was a classic example of how extreme the global warming propagandists have become. He had never even heard of the global temperature recording datasets, so his views on global warming are irrelevant, yet he maintains that politicians who question global warming should be jailed!
    Solar panels are an obvious way of reducing the need to burn fossil fuels, but feed-in tariffs were so ridiculously high that the poor who could not afford solar panels felt, with justification, that they were subsidizing the wealthy.
    Today the situation is reversed, and feed-in tariffs are so ridiculously low that the greatest beneficiary of panels installed from now on will be the energy retailer.
    The imminent availability of batteries and super efficient solar panels means that the time is approaching when households will be able to become self sufficient in energy. The energy retailers are aware of this and are already hiking their service charges before asking obedient governments to pass legislation requiring you to pay for an electricity connection whether you use it or not, exactly as happens with water and sewerage now.
    The biggest problem with the global warming scenario is that once again there is the usual end result - the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    12:34pm
    mangomick, it's not a "generalisation statement." It is a mathematical fact.
    I personally would like to see less pollution world wide which would improve the quality of people's lives. But I do not believe that 'Global Warming' should dictate a G20 Conference when there are many more urgent matters to discuss and agree upon. Earth will not outlive the Sun which only has another 5 billion years of energy.
    Let's focus on humans and things we can have some control over to make life better for each other.
    mangomick, we all make choices and those choices are based on our own personal circumstances and our willingness to trade risk for reward. But sometimes we are unaware of the level of risk.
    mangomick
    18th Nov 2014
    5:27pm
    When governments concentrate on growth growth and more growth on a rock that has limited resources and a finely balanced life system then earths time line is going to be greatly diminished. Pity Governments haven't learnt anything from the demise of the Easter Islanders or the Mayans.
    And as for mathematical facts if you are referring to Government figures they are only as good as the reliability of the data entered.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    7:30pm
    You may be right because it was on the ABC back in 2007!! I wonder if they still think the coal industry is healthy now that there is a change of government?

    "A study into the higher than average rate of leukemia in Gladstone in central Queensland has found no links to industry in the region." ABC 20 Sep 2007, 9:46pm
    mangomick
    18th Nov 2014
    8:33pm
    frank
    i can remember when all the publicity was on about Leukemia rates in gladstone. One particular bloke was driving the publicity but when the health dept looked into it some of the people who had leukemia hadn't been in Gladstone long at all. Very hard to substantiate any figures for Industrial towns like Gladstone because the work force is highly transient. I've been in the area 30 years and eat a lot of the mud crabs and sea food from the area and other than that second head popping up out of my shoulder have had no dramas. The poor sense of humour I was born with.
    Judy in the hills
    17th Nov 2014
    5:15pm
    Personally I think those flag burners should be ashamed of themselves; if they refuse to recognise that flag as the Australian flag and as it being very special and to be respected, perhaps they would like to hand back their pension payments which I'd bet most of them are happily receiving.
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    5:23pm
    Yes Judy in the hills, not only that, but over in West Aust the govt is talking about shutting down 100 of their bush camps as there is no work and no chance of the kids getting a job when they leave school.
    The locals in these places are bellyaching and saying what are we going to do?
    I would suggest they do the same as they did before the white man came here.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    5:33pm
    Who's for a Dip in the Billabong ?? You Beaudy !! No more Teachers No more Books !!.. YAY !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    9:19pm
    You gotta be careful around those billabongs the bunyips are mean.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    9:30pm
    The Yowies ate them !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    9:35pm
    Young Simmo keep your eye on the dust in the yard they got those feather foot fellas up your way.
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    5:18pm
    Well what a pleasing relief to see that probably 85% to 90% of the commenters in here agree with me, and Global Warming is a whole lot of Political Bullsh*t. As I said earlier, the temps have been all over the place for the last 4,699 million years.
    End of story, now let us talk about how Gay Elephants make love.
    I believe they only do it on the 29th Feb every leap year.
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    5:21pm
    And NEVER ON A SUNDAY !!
    Young Simmo
    17th Nov 2014
    5:25pm
    Also, not if it is a cloudy day.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    5:55pm
    Everybody is welcome to their opinion Young Simmo. I hope you are right but everything I read on this topic says otherwise.
    Anonymous
    17th Nov 2014
    9:01pm
    The agreement on climate change, between the US and China, has been greeted in some quarters with euphoria. In reality, it is what Yes, Prime Minster character Sir Humphrey Appleby would call an announceable — a meaningless statement that justifies the meeting of leaders.

    China will continue to build a coal-fired power station every 10 days until 2030 and during the same period build 28 more nuclear power stations. Then, it has agreed to think about climate change.

    President Barack Obama can announce whatever he wishes to try to burnish his presidency, but the reality is that the US congress will never pass his agreement.

    Iain Rae, River Heads, Qld
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    9:29pm
    Maybe they will, maybe they won't Pete. Given that China is polluted like no other nation, that is has a cheap workforce, that it has the expertise and that it is the major manufacturer of solar panels in the world I am leaning on the side of it acting. And then remember that the Chinese need to save face.
    As I said we'll see Pete.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    7:37am
    It does seem quite strange that the left nutters are calling for this government to follow China's lead?
    MICK
    18th Nov 2014
    8:14am
    Your posts continue to be one sided right wing tripe Frank. The government needs to pay more to get good comment but I guess it is paying peanuts and (definitely) getting monkeys. Sad.
    nico
    17th Nov 2014
    6:28pm
    Totally agree with the title of your editorial. People can be forgiven for making a mistake and for sure Mr Abbott's government needs to rethink its attitude towards climate change and foreign policy....before it is too late
    nico
    17th Nov 2014
    6:28pm
    Totally agree with the title of your editorial. People can be forgiven for making a mistake and for sure Mr Abbott's government needs to rethink its attitude towards climate change and foreign policy....before it is too late
    Mar
    17th Nov 2014
    6:35pm
    And Putin took his bat and ball and went home. Thank god for a real player like Obama.
    wally
    17th Nov 2014
    9:23pm
    It is too bad Putin didn't take Obama with him. While the grown ups were discussing economic matters at theG20, Obama went off to find an audience more on his level at Queensland University and repeat the Al Gore mantra about he evil we are for not throwing money around to solve climate change.
    I am especially intrigued by Obama's deal with the Chinese regarding the reduction of Carbon pollution. It seems that Obama is going to set America on reducing their carbon use scheme immediately (with Congressional approval) while the Chinese will be allowed to go on their merry way expanding their industries until 2030. It is like giving Usain Bolt an eight metre head start in a 100 metre race. Boy, that Obama sure can make deals to put America first!
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    9:36pm
    You are clearly doing your anti climate change post again wally.
    I find it a relief that Obama had the spine to speak up as business directed governments in many nations (including his own) seek to continue to pollute so that their rich countrymen can continue to reap their dividends from coal, oil and gas.
    I suggest your position is untenable wally and that you will be nowhere to be heard or seen when governments finally ALL have to act so that other nations do not hit them with a carbon import duty. Clearly Australia will be the last man standing and we will suffer. We are always last. That is the legacy of bad government and failed big business.
    wally
    18th Nov 2014
    9:11am
    when you say that Obama is a player, you are correct. He has played enough of the American voting public for fools in 2008 and again in 2012 to gain the US Presidency. When the G20 conference chose to concentrate on economic matters instead of playing Obama's Climate Change game, he ran off to Queensland University to try to "play" the students there.
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2014
    9:39am
    The US has reduced CO 2 "emissions" greater than any other country. Thanks to its switch to Gas from fracking...
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2014
    9:41am
    Australia met its Kyota commitment and is on target to meet its bi partisan 2020 commitment.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    11:30am
    Yes !!! And Stuffed up thousands of Acres of Good Farming Land doing it !! You can Cook Your Dinner out of the Cold water tap over there now ??.. Go to You/Tube and have a look !!!
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2014
    6:13pm
    But they have reduced Co2 more than any other country if that is your thing ..India wants to reduce its emissions too so wants to go Nuclear which we can help as we have so much uranium...
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2014
    6:16pm
    Why do we need farming land? We are producing far more food than we need ... The EU is paying farmers not to produce ... And the worlds population is about to go into decline ...
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    7:03pm
    They cant do a Brain Scan on a Vacuum !!
    mangomick
    17th Nov 2014
    8:01pm
    What a let down. I was hoping like hell that the ABC Chaser team would have brought out their Limo and done a lap through security. The G20 commitments reminded me of the Miss Universe candidates who always say that if there was one thing they could do was to attain World peace. realisation of the G20 commitments are about par with the wishes of Miss universe.
    With world economies on the brink of recession and conflict all over the world the G20 is once again the worlds biggest junket. With millions in poverty leave your big jets and limos at home and start doing what you are paid to do. G20 Ho Hum.....
    particolor
    17th Nov 2014
    8:15pm
    Yes Me Too !! I'm so Bloody Jealous !!
    Kato
    17th Nov 2014
    9:30pm
    Mango mick that is the best summation on this blog.
    MICK
    17th Nov 2014
    10:07pm
    I agree with that one mangomick. Well spoken mate.
    Paddles
    17th Nov 2014
    10:54pm
    So many people persist in talking about "climate change" as if it were a fact, rather than a theory advanced by many who have subsequently had their credentials completely debunked.

    The IPCC and some of its luminaries were shown to have falsified data to support their contention that the world was facing an apocalyptic scenario of flood, drought, fire etc.

    I cannot deny that weather patterns appear to have changed in my lifetime but I am more inclined to attribute that to the cyclical vagaries of nature rather than man-made actions.

    In the mass of contradictory data, it is not possible to arrive at an irrefutable conclusion so I will choose to go with the "nature" answer.
    miss aisle
    18th Nov 2014
    12:16am
    All this climate change hoo haa is a lot of hot air!
    The weather patterns will continue to vary no matter what we do, or don't do.
    Young Simmo
    18th Nov 2014
    12:30am
    100% spot on miss aisle, not only that you are exactly right as well.
    I was at the Museum a couple of days ago, and was reading a web page that was printed in a 1213 Sydney newspaper, and even way back then (901 years ago) they were arguing about climate change.
    I bet Mick will dispute that, because he is not open to discussion, slightly one eyed you could say.
    mangomick
    18th Nov 2014
    1:43am
    Young Simmo
    Would that be the Sydney newspaper that Rupert Murdochs ,great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grandfather wrote long before Captain Cook came over????
    MICK
    18th Nov 2014
    8:15am
    And the blind will continue to lead the blind.
    MICK
    18th Nov 2014
    8:20am
    So when have I ever been one eyed Simmo. I am open to real evidence and proper scientific study. What I am "one eyed" about is deceitful propaganda and folk who make claims that may be a 'belief' and which have no merit in the scientific community.
    Sadly, if some folk on this website had lived 500 years ago they would have clung to the flat earth 'belief' and the sun orbiting the earth 'belief'.
    By all means have an opinion Simmo. You are most welcome. But please make sure that what you put down as 'fact' is not right wing coal supporting propaganda or just plain crap. That is where you will get a debate mate.
    I'd love the link to your supposed newspaper story but I doubt whether you can supply it.
    Adrianus
    18th Nov 2014
    8:35am
    Young Simmo, I just had a good laugh!! Referring to mick's response to your post above.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    9:00am
    I'm off to Gladstone to get some Yellow Air into Me !!.. AH !! That's Better ..COUGH ! SPLUTTER !! SPIT !!!
    Jen
    18th Nov 2014
    9:47am
    Young Simmo. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! OMG.
    Innyoo
    18th Nov 2014
    8:24am
    It was not a climate change forum.
    I think the climate is doing what it has always done, and will keep doing regardless of what we do. Do we think we are God that we can make a difference to the weather?
    People have been trying to do that for centuries (ie. make it rain..) to no avail.
    Not that I think a conference is going to make much difference to economic growth either...
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    9:02am
    I don't know about the Rain ?? But the Politicians we have now can certainly Make You Cry !!
    wally
    18th Nov 2014
    10:04am
    Leon mentions a Green Climate Fund. What is it there for, Why was it set up and who is running it? Why should any taxpayer funds go to the Green Climate Fund? Is it a self perpetuating propaganda mill created for a few fatcats to con money out of naieve (or cynical politicians happy to use taxpayers money to appease Greenie interests in exchange for votes) government leaders? I would like to see a more detailed examination of the Green Climate Fund presented so we can judge for ourselves how worthwhile this might or might not be.
    miss aisle
    18th Nov 2014
    10:24am
    I hope the subjects of "global warming/climate change" will have lost their appeal
    for debate in 100 or so years.
    When it's slightly warmer or cooler than usual, - it's simply nature doing it's thing!
    There'll be much higher priorities to worry about - water, food & survival.
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2014
    10:51am
    I Agee miss aisle and with the worlds population set to decline , and is already doing so in Germany , Russia , China and Japan dramatically . And the increasing use of automation we can look forward to a glorious future .

    18th Nov 2014
    10:55am
    If you think global warming is a problem . And that too much sunlight is hitting the earth . Wouldn't it be an idea to try something that can be reversed in case you set wrong .
    I don't believe in would be that hard to put a series of mirrors at mid point to the Sun and defect some sunlight away .
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2014
    10:57am
    Surely better than sending billions overseas to buy carbon credits from some dodgy operators who promise to emit less carbon .,.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    11:21am
    Get an Extension Ladder and Put a Wet Bag over it !!
    mollie
    18th Nov 2014
    8:11pm
    Doesn't matter what the government of the day does, there will always be wingers. Be grateful you live in a democracy.People believe what they want to believe in spite of facts and scientific evidence. Note the following published in 2012.
    Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released... and here is the chart to prove it http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/14/article-2217286-157E3ADF000005DC-561_644x358.jpg

    The figures reveal that from the beginning of 1997 until August 2012 there was no discernible rise in aggregate global temperatures
    This means that the ‘pause’ in global warming has now lasted for about the same time as the previous period when temperatures rose, 1980 to 1996

    By David Rose for The Mail on Sunday

    Published: 07:42 AEST, 14 October 2012 | Updated: 23:59 AEST, 16 October 2012

    Climate change has been around ever since man walked the earth. There are many more important things to discuss like the ISIS criminals in Iraq, child prostitution and trafficking all over the world and the 1.9 billion people in the world without electricity. How about some of us getting off our hobby horses and confronting real issues. Abbott and co have signed some terrific trade deals and we will all benefit from them.
    particolor
    18th Nov 2014
    8:34pm
    Out local Footy team has a Couple of good Wingers too !! We beat the other team 6 Nil last week !!.. Well Were off to enjoy the You Beaut Trade Deals now !! What a lovely Day !
    Anonymous
    18th Nov 2014
    10:34pm
    Mollie logic has no place on a site for whinging oldies
    mangomick
    18th Nov 2014
    11:02pm
    Abbott and Co signed some great free trade deals????
    Abbott is the first to admit that when it comes to Free education and Free Hospitals nothing is free as someone has to pay for it. Now we have him espousing a Free Trade Deal.But like he says nothing ever comes Free. So just sit back a while and ask yourself who is going to be the losers in this so called Free Trade deal. The following cut and pasted from an article outlines an example where free trade can hurt the ordinary Aussie citizen.
    An investor-state dispute settlement clause gives a multinational company which believes its investment has been harmed by a government decision the right to sue a state in an international arbitration tribunal—which would have the power to overrule local laws.
    In recent years these arbitration tribunals have broadened the range of potential claims that can be made against a state and this has led to a rapid increase of investor interest in this form of dispute settlement. Multinationals can now sue states for damages if legislative changes may make their profits lower than expected.
    Google the Phillip Morris case against plain paper packages to see what effect this clause can have.
    Anonymous
    19th Nov 2014
    7:33am
    It's called intellectual property rights .
    Also don't you think BHP should be compensated if a foreign government nationalises its subsidiary .
    mangomick
    19th Nov 2014
    9:01am
    I certainly don't believe a tobacco company can sue a Government if they bring in Legislation that is aimed in reducing the publics use of a product which is costing the government Billions in Medical costs. The end result will be Lawyers forming $2 companies with the direct purpose of going out of it's way to cause dissent just so eventually they can sue a Government. There's the potential for a little bit more in it than protecting intellectual rights.
    Anonymous
    19th Nov 2014
    12:24pm
    Tobacco is a legal product and the plain paper packaging laws have damaged the millions spent on brand recognition by tobacco companies with no compensation . We need laws that protect investors against acts by foreign governments.
    mangomick
    19th Nov 2014
    12:36pm
    So Pete you believe that Not only should the Australian government pay out millions each year on Medical Services to those who have medical conditions because of the product but our own Government shouldn't even be allowed to bring in legislation to minimise that outcome or even legislate to remove that product without being sued for doing so??? Do you use your same arguments for Thalidomide.
    Anonymous
    19th Nov 2014
    1:00pm
    The govt is quite within its rights to raise the tax's on tobacco as it does to far more than the cost of self inflicted harm costs . This is a personal choice to buy a legal product .
    If it wants to ban tobacco it can also do so . As it does with Some other drugs...
    But it should not have the right to destroy investors value of intellectual property in a legal product..,
    Anonymous
    19th Nov 2014
    1:01pm
    Should all wines or scotch be without brand names...
    particolor
    19th Nov 2014
    3:11pm
    I think all Grog bottles should have a Plain Label, with a picture of a Drunk leaning on a lamp Post looking at the Label ! Its only fair ! As it does more damage than Cigarettes !!..
    Yes !! Ban Cigarettes and all the By products and Employment they Cause !! I'm sure the Government wont miss the 600 Billion dollars+ a Year Free Money ??
    particolor
    20th Nov 2014
    4:52pm
    That solved their problem didn't it !! Old Age Pensioners being Bashed for their pension ! So the Robbers can buy some Cigarettes ??.. How many Old People does the Greedy Government want lying in Hospital ?? What did they think their Extortion Prices would Fix ? Everybody Quiting ??
    Adrianus
    20th Nov 2014
    4:59pm
    parti, don't tell me you are blaming Abbott for the bashing of that poor 86 year old chap? Good Lord, do you think it could be one of the posters on here?
    particolor
    20th Nov 2014
    5:20pm
    Don't be so S**** ! I was pointing out a fact ! (Not that Id put that case down as not a Motive either ). I know of Two cases now of Grandparents being Hit because they wouldn't come Good with some Ciggy money, And they wont say anything to the Authorities because they don't want their relies in trouble !!.$30 Bucks a Packet of Cigarettes ?? What are they playing at ? They wont need the 7 bucks co-Payment now !..Makes the Muslims Extortion look cheap !!
    Adrianus
    20th Nov 2014
    6:33pm
    Tanya Plibersek is very proud of it, and you know given time it will probably work on a few to stop them from either taking it up or continuing.
    Of course the $7 co=payment is to stop people clogging up the system. I see there is a move on for women to get over the counter pill. The pill! as we used to call it. Because it was so important.
    particolor
    20th Nov 2014
    6:43pm
    Yes saw that ! And now a Couple Of Honourable Members are up for doing Shonky Deals !! And that's the Good News !!
    What is going on in Wonderful Land that we DONT Know About ??
    mangomick
    22nd Nov 2014
    2:20pm
    Pete says "If it wants to ban tobacco it can also do so . As it does with Some other drugs..."
    Well under the Free trade Agreement future State and Federal Governments could leave themselves open to be sued by companies such as the tobacco Industry under the investor-state dispute settlement clause . And our own Courts will not get any say in the outcome.
    We have always been the bunny in any negotiation over "free trade " I just hope that our Politicians who are bending themselves backwards to get the deal done don't skip the fine print.
    particolor
    22nd Nov 2014
    2:31pm
    A couple of Hoods Knocked off the Ciggy Van today ! And got away with 33 Grand of Smoke !! Good Job Lads ! Think of the Excise and Tax and GST and..... Etc, they saved !!...
    unicorn
    22nd Nov 2014
    11:43am
    So Tony thought that he could keep the G20 on track as far as he wanted & soon learnt that he didn't have all the control that he thought he would have ahh poor Tony proved what a big dill he is. And poor Smoking Joe missed out too, just as well he didn't say too much it is bad enough the world knowing Tony is not as smart as he thinks he is without Joe opening his mouth before he puts his foot in it (instead of his cigar).
    particolor
    22nd Nov 2014
    12:00pm
    Ill bet neither of them have got a Match !!


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