4th Feb 2015
RBA cuts interest rate to record low

In the face of slow economic growth, the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) has cut the official interest rate for the first time since August 2013, in a move to stimulate business activity and encourage household spending.

The RBA has cut the 2.5 per cent cash rate by 25 basis points to a new record low of 2.25 per cent. While some economists agree that the cuts are a good move, others seemed surprised.

“[The] Reserve Bank decision comes as a shock because most experts were betting on the cash rate to remain unchanged [yesterday]. In fact, 28 of the 30 leading economists and experts from the finder.com.au Reserve Bank Survey got it wrong,” says finder.com.au spokesperson Michelle Hutchison.

Some economists are already predicting a second 25 basis points cut, which could be upon us as soon as next month. According to Senior NAB Economist David De Garis: “There'll be room for another cut this year, how soon remains to be seen. We've been thinking two (cuts) and it's hard to steer away from that at this point.”

RBA cut will affect retirees most

Whilst the Reserve Bank’s rate cut is good news for mortgage holders, it seems the hardest hit will be retirees. The rate cut is designed to encourage those who already owe money to spend more money, under the illusion that they’ll have a little more in their pockets. However, those who have already toiled for years to pay off previous debt and who now live off their hard-earned life savings will be put through the wringer. Still, with the population ageing, I suppose it was only a matter of time before the ‘big bank’ found its next cash cow – retirees.

Let’s cut to the chase and see who benefits and who suffers most from the RBA rate cut.

Winners

  • good for those with debt/s (except credit card debt)
  • good for those with overseas investments, such as managed funds invested in overseas-listed shares (unless the fund is hedged for exchange rate risk)

Losers

  • interest-bearing investment holders
  • anyone trying to save money
  • those living off their savings, ie: retirees.

Mortgage holders stand to benefit most, potentially enjoying monthly savings of around $50, on a $300,000 loan, to $120, on an $800,000 loan. Some mortgage rates could potentially reach their lowest levels in almost 50 years.

Those with interest bearing investments will feel the harshest sting of the Reserve Bank’s slashed cash rate with their cash savings earning less interest.

Retirees currently living off these savings could be hard pressed to bridge the future shortfall – especially when taking into account the limited employment options available to over 65s. To make up for the loss of earnings, those in retirement may instead have to consider higher risk investments which earn greater interest, or tighten their belts – either way, it’s a tough pill for most to swallow.

One thing that may assist retirees is the possibility of Centrelink adjusting the deeming rules in order to free up some cash for those living off their savings. The question is: should retirees hold their breath and wait for that ‘sign of good faith’ from the government?

How does the RBA’s rate cut affect you? Are you prepared to take on more risk with your investments? Or will you now have to ‘tighten the belt’ even further and ride it out?

Read more at SBS News.

Read more at The Age.

If you’d like to calculate how much you'll save on your mortgage, or how much you can afford to borrow, why not try Money's Borrowing Power Calculator?





    COMMENTS

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    Cassius
    4th Feb 2015
    10:28am
    Have fond memories of the days when you could get more that 10% on a term deposit
    Gra
    4th Feb 2015
    12:05pm
    Sadly Cassius, that's all they are. The RBA is too busy looking after the young ones with their mortgages. No considerations is given to those older ones whose savings and investments are what they rely on to survive. Wouldn't it be nice if we were given some thought occasionally.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    12:20pm
    And this government is trying everything in its (limited) power to strip retirees of all they have.
    particolor
    4th Feb 2015
    1:43pm
    I'm down to My Speedos and Thongs ?? :-(
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    11:28am
    Sure, mick. It won't be long before Joe Hockey drives up to your front door with a big box truck to take away all your belongings and throw you out on the street.
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    11:35am
    and then send everything you used to own to New York to Rupert Murdoch.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:03pm
    wally: you have clearly been living under a rock. Look at what passed as a Budget, Hockey may have been puffing on his cigar after the budget speech but he is now chocking on it.
    As Wayne Swan correctly stated on Q&A on Monday night "this government is a wholly owned subsidiary of Newscorp". I have to agree with that one.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:35pm
    "choking".
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:35pm
    Those cigars are not good 4U.
    particolor
    5th Feb 2015
    7:55pm
    "Stop Ashing Your Cigar in My Ink Well Joe !!" :-(
    disillusioned
    4th Feb 2015
    12:14pm
    Why don't we get older people representing our interests elected to parliament where real change can occur?
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    12:19pm
    Long overdue. There were a couple of political characters who were plugging themselves on this site. I contacted them. One did not respond and the other was quite fixed in his ways and through a tantrum when I stated this...as well as effectively being what looked like a subsidiary of the current government...to whom his preference would have gone. Suspicious!
    I would love to get a political party going but unless the retirement community gave close to 100% support for such a candidate it is a pointless exercise as nobody is going to represent a group unless it supports them. A tough call.
    stones
    4th Feb 2015
    1:57pm
    I would suggest that the older people once elected to parliament are all rosie with the generous pension they have just inherited and no longer have to worry that one day they may have had to survive on the old age pension and they become so focused and self-centred on retaining their elected position they forget what may have been had they not got elected and they just become embroiled in what is the policies that will ensure they stay in parliament. Unfortunately pensions and pensioners affected by interest rates fall of their agendas
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:16pm
    Its all about getting in, staying there for at least 2 terms (the qualifying period for the golden parachute better known as a parliamentary pension) and thereafter removing themselves from average Australians whilst they do as they like.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    2:33pm
    "Its all about getting in, staying there for at least 2 terms". Well apparently not any more Mick if Victoria, SA and Qld are anything to go by.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:40pm
    There should be more of it. Send a message to the bastards.
    Macey05
    5th Feb 2015
    11:58am
    Yes definitely "disillusioned". There are a few candidates on this blog who need to put their words to better use. How about it guys - seriously. Why should Jackie Lambie have all the fun
    particolor
    5th Feb 2015
    7:58pm
    Well She made a Bloody good attempt on the radio the other night to Keep The Barsteds Honest !! :-)
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    12:15pm
    Australians have been duped again by their government and the RBA.
    Our terms of trade (difference between import $ and export $) is bad as we import almost everything and the value of our exports (mainly coal, iron ore) are have dropped by half over the past few years.
    This means that we will pay more for a whole raft of goods: fuel, manufactured goods, even imported food. Since manufacturing has been put out of business by both sides of politics this means WE WILL ALL PAY MORE. And then there is inflation on top of that.
    Be prepared for a poor future and having to sell everything you own to make ends meet. And readers wonder why I keep plugging VOTING FOR INDEPENDENTS. Its a lay down misere.
    Emps
    4th Feb 2015
    12:34pm
    The difference between the values of imports and exports is known as the balance of trade. Terms of trade refer to negotiated prices each way.
    Polly Esther
    4th Feb 2015
    1:04pm
    Mick.. I'm sure there is a calling in Canberra for you, I've thought it for a while, and don't be coy about it, you may be surprised at the following you will get. I'm serious why don't you give it a go? All the best.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:03pm
    Thanks for the trade lesson Emps.
    Thanks also for your suggestion Willie. I am not too sure that you are right here or if your comment is tongue in cheek.
    I have contested federally once before. Sadly the electorate is of the opinion that only Labor of Liberal candidates can make a difference and whilst I know that this is dead wrong who am I to tell people that they are doing precisely what is bad for them?
    "Life wasn't meant to be easy" and it sure as hell won't be whilst voters refuse to see the real problem: the two sides of politics and their elected stooges representating themselves and their funding provider vested interests.
    If we had a dedicated 'Retiree and Small Business Party' with wide ranging support I would be happy to stand and work for the nation...paid or not. Without that support there is no point and the best I can hope to do is to convince voters that they are being worked over with propaganda campaigns which deliver only more pain.
    Polly Esther
    4th Feb 2015
    2:53pm
    No tongue in cheek here pal, I don't talk with forked tongue.
    You've just named your party in your above blog, that's a start, now think of all the good you could do.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    3:32pm
    I often go on about what seniors could do if they stopped with their Labor Party/Liberal Party nonesense and united against these two because THEY ARE THE COMMON ENEMY.
    We have the numbers but sadly not the resolve as most treat their political party of choice like a football team...and that is what the big boys rely on to keep them both in power. And it explains why the behaviours from both sides never change: they don't need to.
    As I said, get me a united seniors group and I'll run with this. How does the old saying go: 'united we stand, divided we fall'? So true.
    Thanks for the show of confidence Willie. Maybe change is possible over time with if people begin to see the light.
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    11:34am
    How interesting, mick. Why haven't you warned us earlier about how Glen Strevens
    and the Reserve Bank of Australia have joined the Tony Abbott, Gina Reinhart, Rupert Murdoch and the Coal industry conspiracy to rob everything from us poor old pensioners to send off to New York for Rupert Murdoch's twisted enjoyment?
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:08pm
    wally: the Reserve Bank used to be 'independent' of the government. One would have to ask id that were still the case.
    The suggest go go to Liberal Party HQ and look up whether or not the above illustrious crew have contributed election funding to the Liberal Party. Given that all 3 levels of government are tarred with the same brush I would be surprised of the corrption in state liberal were nor repeated at the federal level. It appears likely that the only reason this government has not been caught with its hands in the same till is that WE DO NOT HAVE A FEDERAL EQUIVALENT OF THE ICAC. We should have.
    Hawkeye
    7th Feb 2015
    1:12pm
    Mick, stop thinking and just do it.
    Senator Mick has a nice ring to it.

    If we had a Senator Mick from each state (easily attainable), then that's possibly the ballance of power. There are a few other regular posters here that could stand along with you (no Wally, not you), and hopefully they are spread out among the different states.

    Even two Senator Mick's from each state is possible if some of the "rusted-ons" from both sides started to think for themselves for a change.

    Tony Abbott's attitudes to the aging have made this possible, but it has to be done NOW. GO FOR IT MATE!!!!
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    12:22pm
    Have you forgotten the days of 18% interest rates and the resulting "recession we had to have" under Paul Keeting? Unemployment 11% USD exchange rate at 51c.

    I'd say there was a way to go yet to match that.

    The RBA is too busy trying to do the best it can for Australia's economy as a whole than individual vested interests.
    Stoker
    4th Feb 2015
    12:31pm
    Oh yes KSS we recall those days, but we paid it and got our own places, but now its like you say and Cassius if only we could get about 10% back on investment we could live a little better. Oh well what goes around comes around.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    1:30pm
    The RBA does NOT belong to the Australian people but is a Conglomerate of private Banks!!!!
    Like ANY CORPORATION, It looks after the "bottom line" of the bank!!!
    STUFF THE PEOPLE - Such unconditional & independent of their age.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    1:50pm
    Perhaps Patriot you would do well to look at the Reserve Bank Act 1959 to understand the ownership and purpose of the Reserve Bank and the functions of its Board. Section 9 paragraph 2 states:

    "It is the duty of the Reserve Bank Board, within the limits of its powers, to ensure that the monetary and banking policy of the Bank is directed to the greatest advantage of the people of Australia and that the powers of the Bank under this Act and any other Act, other than the Payment Systems (Regulation) Act 1998, the Payment Systems and Netting Act 1998 and Part 7.3 of the Corporations Act 2001, are exercised in such a manner as, in the opinion of the Reserve Bank Board, will best contribute to:

    (a) the stability of the currency of Australia;
    (b) the maintenance of full employment in Australia; and
    (c) the economic prosperity and welfare of the people of Australia.

    Further, where the Reserve Bank acts as a bank, profits are returned to the Commonwealth. See section 30. So much for your invective "stuff the people".
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:13pm
    Really KSS? 1959 says it all. A few observations:
    1. the currency is anything other than "stable". Any of the big traders like George Souros can easily make the currency run in either direction.
    2. full employment? Is that why governments have shut down manufacturing and thrown millions of Australians out of work?
    3. Rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb. The removal of trade barriers has not helped the nation. All it has done is open up opportunities for the LOW WAGE third world to take over everything. And now we are hostage to imports whilst our "prosperity" is heading south.
    You are quoting the same feel good rhetoric which all government literature at all levels now use. The fact that much of it is fiction does not seem to matter as those who write this crap feel good about it.
    If you seriously think that Australia is in a good place I await your views in a year's time when the cost of imports blows out, the cost of everything you buy goes up and your income stays the same.
    The dropping dollar is good for exporters but a poison pill for average Australians. But then what does this government care about average Australians whose only uses are to vote and to pay taxes.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    2:22pm
    Mick I am directly quoting the Reserve Bank Act not some 'feel good rhetoric' of Government literature. This is law. The law under which the Reserve Bank is established and operates.

    It is not a "Conglomerate of private Banks" as Patriot alleged nor is it just some random literature as you assert. And because you have failed to check your facts, yes the Act was first enacted in 1959 but has been amended regularly since then. The latest in July 2014.

    You Mick, are the one who "write this crap"!
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:44pm
    Do me a favour KSS. Go to your local council and pick up a report on something: parks, lagoons, etc. The read it. I think that you will get the gist of my point.
    You clearly either disagreed or did not read my reponses to each of the points in the Act. That is the crap. Whilst the rhetoric may have been true once upon a time it has not too much relevance to today's world or the way politicians throughout the western world behave.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    2:55pm
    As always Mick when you are proven wrong you resort to personal attacks.

    I am surprised you have not rolled out the "Troll" tag yet. Although there is still time.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    3:34pm
    And what you said is EXACTLY what the poster who aslo posts under Solomon/Frank/miss aisle says. It does lead me to one place mate.
    Stick to the facts and avoid slapping any political party on the back and you will get a lot further.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    7:05pm
    WOW,
    Just back from planting some veggies, had a "bite to eat" and I see that a fairly hefty discussion has taken place relating to one of my favourite subjects.
    OK, I suggest we take the RED Pill and go a little bit deeper into the Rabbit Hole.

    Sure, the legislation is stating as has been quoted but that does not mean that the "truth & Reality" is as it looks at Face Value!!! So, KSS (Technically) is most likely correct! However, Pollies also MUST ensure that they act in our best interest. ARE THEY???
    I refer to an organisation by the name of: "Banking & Finance Consu,ers Support Association (inc)" and refer to an article which is named: "Who REALLY owns the Reserve Bank of Australia?"and is located at the following link: http://www.bfcsa.com.au/index.php/entry/who-really-owns-the-reserve-bank-of-australia
    The article states the following: EVIDENCE THE BANK IS A FOREIGN ADI WITH FOREIGN LINKS AND BRANCHES:

    The below act shows how foreign coroporations have power of attorney over the Reserve Bank of Australia:

    RESERVE BANK ACT 1959 - SECT 76 Attorney of Bank
    The Bank may, by instrument under its seal, appoint a person (whether in Australia or in a place beyond Australia) to be its attorney and a person so appointed may, subject to the instrument, do any act or execute any power or function which he or she is authorized by the instrument to do or execute.
    (Source: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/rba1959130/s76.html

    Foreign Agents in control of the Reserve Bank of Australia:

    RESERVE BANK ACT 1959 - SECT 75 Agents etc.
    In the exercise of its powers and the performance of its functions, the Bank may:
    (a) Establish branches and agencies at such places, whether within or beyond Australia, as the Bank thinks fit;
    (b) Arrange with a person to act as agent of the Bank in any place, whether within or beyond Australia; and
    (c) Act as the agent of an ADI carrying on business within or beyond Australia.

    Yet another article from an organisation named Independent Australia named: "Who is the Reserve Bank really looking after?"explains quite some details. Https://independentaustralia.net/business/business-display/who-is-the-reserve-bank-really-looking-after,5243

    The following link exposes much about the global finace conspiracy: http://larryhannigan.com/who_really_owns_the_reserve_bank_of_australia.htm
    This exposes some of the Control Mechanisms on the Money Supply as related to Australia. It also has many other excellent info that is not widely known.

    I just ask one question. How would we feel is Australia declared war on (say) New Zealand. How would you feel if the Strategy to win this war was "Set & Determined" by a person who:
    1 Was NOT an Australian
    2 Did NOT live in Australia
    3 Whose personal Loyalty & Welfare was not part of the equasion associated with the welfare of Australia as a country.
    4 Who had allegance to the Kiwi's and whose personal welfare was dependent of the New Zealand economy?
    Would we Trust Him/her ???? If you had a say, would you let it happen???

    Our politicians MUST be Australians and so must be the head of the Aust armed forces. Certainly, it SHOULD also be a legislated requirement for the ARB!

    AND WE potentially ALLOW A FOREIGNER TO BE INCHARDE OF THE BANKING SYSTEM OF AUSTRALIA??? HOW STUPID CAN WE GET??
    This system is VITALLY important to the wellbeing of EVERY AUSTRALIAN!!!

    I also believe that this is contravening the Aust Constitution!

    Just to put it into some personal perspective. How would any of us feel if one of our kids was in the final of a international footy match and the referee was a member of the opposing team.
    We'd get up in arms and complain bitterly.
    Why then are we "Sitting on our hands" when Australia is STOLEN from us by the Foreighn Corporations.
    Why are we willing to sacrifice the future of our children rather than "get off our BUTS" and defend this nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    As per Aust Constitution, our Government has the Right & Duty to generate the currency necessary for this great nation and issue such "AT ZERO interest"into the Auastralian economy.
    That is what made Australia a the great country it once was.
    Ever since we lost control of our finances, we have gone "Down Hill".
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    8:29pm
    The fact that the electorate does not set policy has been clear for some time. Abbott was summonied to see Rupert Murdoch after winning office. Funny that. And then he repealed the Carbon Tax for no other reason other than the profits of the fossil fuel industries. How odd...and taxpayers are now effectiviely subsidising this to the tune of $8 BILLION every year. Last of all is the banking system. Whilst I have not got my head around this one it foreign banks own around 50% of our banks and large companies whilst lending money to other big investors who have bought large stakes in Australia. That the banking system 'owns' the country is quite possible.
    I am aware that APRA has introduced Cyprus style 'bail in' arrangements so that depositor money can legally be stolen should the banks get into trouble and this has been repeated around the globe....WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF VOTERS AROUND THE PLANET.
    Your account Patriot is a concern, but why does this not surprise me.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    8:54pm
    Just another interesting bit of info.
    If WE own the bank why, as owners, are we apparently not allowed to know???
    http://barnabyisright.com/resources-articles/who-owns-our-debt/
    Cat
    4th Feb 2015
    9:15pm
    I certainly remember the 18% interest when I had just bought my first home, and very bad employment opportunities, and stuck in a low wage job - but I could get 2 bags of groceries for around $30.00 or less, and the same groceries would cost about triple that now. Petrol was so much cheaper along with everything else that is a regular necessary purchase like electricity, insurance, phone, and we didn't even have to pay for water then. I am much worse off now, having to fork out on a daily basis nor necessities that cost so much more.

    The cost of living is so much higher now, that the financial burden of that far outstrips the benefit of the lower interest rate. That is without taking into account the massively higher cost of buying a house and its corresponding massive mortgage. During the period of time you are talking about KSS you could get a new 4 bedroom house built on a block of land for around $65,000 in a decent estate.

    If the employment rate was still classified like it was back then in the '80's I wouldn't be surprised if it was now higher than 11% if classified on that same basis of working a certain number of hours before being considered employed.

    We have more than matched the situation a long time ago.
    Cat
    4th Feb 2015
    9:18pm
    I should add that the fact that the RBA is cutting an interest rate that is already down to 2.50 % is a sign that this country is in some serious economic trouble.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    9:21pm
    KSS
    All the Government is is "Feel Good Rhetoric".
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    11:43am
    Cat, the fact the RBA is cutting the interest rate is the result of the response to the delayed effects of Labor's bad economic management and their efforts to "Abbott Proof" what they did. Abbott Proofing was meant to hinder as much as possible anything Tony Abbott would try to do to clean up the economic mess they had created.
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    11:52am
    Patriot, I would have thought that the Feel Good Rhetoric that was fed to us by Kevin 07 and Julia between 2007 and 2o13 would have been enough. After 6 years of Labor's feel good bullshit, lies , misrepresentations and "window dressing" efforts to trick the voters into thinking they were doing something the public wanted (like Julia's so called "solutions" to the boat people flood by sending the to East Timor), it is time to face the unpleasant fact that Labor stuffed Australia. Now they are trying to perpetuate the mess they caused.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:13pm
    Cat: the reason the the interst rate is being cut is solely due to the fact that this government has contributed a large amount to the deficit and not done one single thing other than attack average Australians to fix it. Since coming to office this government has set up an annual payment of $8 BILLION to its ekection funding provider the fossil fuel industries (specificallly coal!). And then it removed the borrowing ceilling so that it could borrow forever whilst blaming the previous government for the movement of money to the wealthy. These are the facts and wally is simply trotting out the liberal party script for his employer.
    Pamiea
    4th Feb 2015
    12:28pm
    What gets me about the young folk of today they want everything we have strived years to get. They want it now and think its their God given right to get it. Is that Greed with a capital "G"?
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    12:37pm
    There's some who could say the same thing about 'oldies' on this site who "think its their God given right" to everything. And anyway who taught the 'young folk' their values? Wouldn't that be the 'oldies' i.e. the parents?
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:18pm
    KSS: Pamiena is spot on. What parent teach and how they turn out when they repeatedly hear about their 'rights' are two different things. And then there are partners.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    2:35pm
    Mick and who told them about their rights? Those that grew up in the freedom of the 60s & 70s who discovered their voice.... i.e. the parents,

    I do not disagree that there is a sense of entitlement in the younger generation but, hey, they got that from their parents too! The same people who now think the Government owes them a pension as their 'God given right' etc etc etc
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:50pm
    Not me KSS. My children never had any od the 'rights' poison taught to them. They were taught responsibility, respect and to work hard and save to get on.
    I think that the local media and American TV have a fair bit to do with what you are alluding to.
    We are currently going through a campaign where gen Ys are of the opinion that it is the state's responsibility to pay for the care of their children whilst they head off to work. Whilst I understand why this happens I do not condone everybody footing the bill for mum to go and earn a lifestyle.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    7:13pm
    KSS,
    The Government OWES US an Old Age Pension indeed.
    I say again, at the time the scheme was introduced, the government increased taxes toenable money to be "Put Away" for when the time came for us to collect.
    I, as many others, have paid this extra tax for many years and I now am here to collect an OLD AGE PENSION which was wisely invested by My Govenment on behalf of "All of US".
    YES WE ARE ENTITLED AND THE "AGE of ENTITLEMENT" IS HERE!!!
    KSS just read the hansard that relates to these Parliamentary decisions! PLEASE.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    8:31pm
    What you call the 'government' Patriot is (supposedly) the sum of the society. WE all pay for pensions and these can be given and taken as voters see fit...although this government seems to believe that this is at its bidding.
    I'm not too sure about 'rights' but I do agree that people who pay enough taxes all of their lives should not be abandoned.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    9:41pm
    Mick,
    I also say to you: "Read the Hansard" and you'll confirm that a separate TAX WAS IMPOSED AT THE TIME (just to pay for that purpose & none other) to pay for pensions when they became due.
    Even when compulsory Super was introduced this tax was not "done away with".
    Double dipping they call that I think.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    9:27am
    Fair enough Patriot but all governments eventually through money for specific causes into consolidated revenue and spend it as they please. I'm not saying tis right but just that it is how they operate.
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    9:42am
    mick,
    That is exactly what Menzies ( a Liberal) did.
    ALP NEVER Reversed it though so they MUST have AGREED with it.
    However, you cannot use this as "A General" as, scotland, Holland and I believe the UK (and probably others) established a FrameWork of Insurance (sort off Life Ins ???) that took care of the contributions and the mechanics of the re0distrubution of these funds when they are needed!
    There are easy ways Australia can fund these needs!
    However, the Bankers won't let them!!!!!
    Download the link to: "The money trick" further South in this Forum and you'll understand the mechanism I'm referring to.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:16pm
    Respectfully Patriot this happens all the time. Do you remember the NRMA getting up in arms about road funding which went elsewhere. The theory might be good but the practice is normally different.
    As for th enext government not reversing it methinks that this is a bit like the GST...which they all wanted. So why reverse something the other side gets the boot for?
    Radish
    8th Feb 2015
    2:18pm
    Bill Shorten will fix everything after the next election.
    Nan Norma
    4th Feb 2015
    12:53pm
    The problem is that centrelink hasn't put its deeming rate down making it all most impossible to find an interest rate to match it, therefore everyone on a pension is losing money. If you are asset tested you lose even more.
    particolor
    4th Feb 2015
    1:51pm
    Yes have You noticed that ? You are Still DEEMED to have something at the 10% Interest Rate ??
    particolor
    4th Feb 2015
    1:55pm
    PS.. Claim Devaluation on Your Tax Return for Bank Interest !! :-)
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:50pm
    Double wammy!
    Sceptic
    4th Feb 2015
    3:58pm
    Highest deeming rate is 3.5%. Still too high, but a long way from 10%.
    Nan Norma
    4th Feb 2015
    4:06pm
    I remember when the deeming rate first began it was 10%
    particolor
    4th Feb 2015
    4:20pm
    So do I ??.. Damn the Deem !!
    Chat
    4th Feb 2015
    12:59pm
    The RBA may have announced the rate cut yesterday but when an Investment we had with a bank matured last Thursday and we went in to reinvest it the bank had already lowered its rate. They did this on Friday morning in anticipation of the cut.
    Some banks have not passed the cut on to home owners but they were quick to apply it to investments making life tough for those trying to live on the income from them.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    1:28pm
    Nothing new there Chat. Always were slow to reduce rates.

    In case you missed it, the big 4 banks 'divorced' themselves from the RBA about a year or more ago. They have not adjusted their rates in line with the RBA (or at all) for quite some time. There was a while there when the banks INCREASED their rates when the RBA lowered theirs.

    You usually do better with a non-bank financial institution, or on-line savings accounts.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:52pm
    So why else would banks make donations to conservative politicians other than to have the right to do this? And lets not forget about thechanges the previous government made to protect consumers....which this government came in and tried to quash.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    7:15pm
    Chat,
    Not in anticipation at all.
    They KNEW as they are part of the decision making process
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    7:17pm
    Mick
    Happens the other way to.
    Joe donated $8.8 billion (our dough) to the RBA
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    12:06pm
    One hand washes the other, or if you prefer, "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:17pm
    I have to agree with that Patriot. And then removed the ceiling on borrowing.
    Mar
    4th Feb 2015
    1:08pm
    "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer," not much change. I think it's "tighten your belt and ride it out" for most pensioners. That's life!!
    Grateful
    4th Feb 2015
    1:34pm
    Spot on Mar. Rich property investors and shareholders are delighted. Another nail in the first home buyers' coffin. Will we have a property bubble bursting????
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    1:56pm
    Grateful how does a low repayment rate on a housing loan equate to "another nail in the first home buyers coffin"? It makes the loan more affordable.

    It is not the low interest rate per se that is the problem, it is the cashed up retiree investors i.e. SMRF owners competing for property with first home buyers that is the main issue. Tell the 'oldies' to invest elsewhere and perhaps there may be more entry level dwellings available for first timers.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    2:57pm
    Come KSS stop playing the 'dumb' card. We both know that low interest rate will lead to higher property prices because purchasers can afford more. Have a look at the share market. It is up almost 1% today and yeasterday was a great day as well.
    Your tale of SMSF retirees has some truth but then you could say the same about the big superannuation funds investing in shares. The housing problem is very simply due to rapidly increasing population and the refusal of INVESTORS to build new housing stock becaus of the huge costs, mainly governmentvcosts.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    3:08pm
    According to Roy Morgan research in May 2014: over the last four years the number of investment property loans in Australia has grown by 37% compared to an increase of only 4% in the number of owner occupied loans.

    ...... The result is that 11.9% of the 50 to 64 age group now hold an investment property loan (compared to 9.4% in 2010)........

    .... Within the same time period the proportion of those aged 50 and over with an owner-occupied home loan has increased with the greatest growth being in the 50-64 age group, up from 31.6% to 34.0%. ......

    So tell me again Mick, about the increasing population because I am obviously too 'dumb' to understand.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    3:47pm
    "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"? Have a look at the following links:

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/2071.0Main%20Features952012%E2%80%932013?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=2071.0&issue=2012%962013&num=&view=

    and also:

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/population

    Population in 1960 about 10 million. Population now approaching 24 million. I'd call that population increase. The second graph shows a spike
    As I correctly said WE ARE NOT BUILDING ENOUGH NEW HOUSES. That my dear troll is the prime driver of prices. Its just supply and demand.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    3:48pm
    And there's the 'T' word. Yay!!!
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    8:33pm
    And as the trolls always do: ignore the facts put before them whilst they trot out the propaganda. Come on in spinner.
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    11:54am
    You taught 'em well, mick.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:20pm
    Facts are something you wally, or whoever you really are, have no stomach for. You simply follow a similar script:
    1. demonise Labor and Unions at every step, often with dishonest misinformation.
    2. praise the Liberal Party whilst again using dishonest statements.
    The problem with you and the other aliases from the same paid troll is that you have no integrity because you make no attemot at honest discussion. Your posts aare propaganda meant to mislead those who are not in possession of the facts.
    Sceptic
    5th Feb 2015
    4:30pm
    And these are the facts that you get from GetUp Mick?
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    8:05pm
    Here are some more:

    https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/tpp/tpp/the-dirtiest-deal-youve-never-heard-of?t=7y10NCp7p

    Read it and worry about the WHY.
    Mar
    4th Feb 2015
    1:11pm
    Agree with Willie Poker. Mick, why don't you go for it !!
    biddi
    4th Feb 2015
    1:43pm
    Yes, Mick, how about it? Interested?
    particolor
    4th Feb 2015
    2:00pm
    And Big Business will Straighten Him up into line very soon after Nominating !! :-(
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    3:03pm
    Give me the numbers to have a chance against the thugs on either side of politics and I would stand.
    Having been there once before it is pointless when the public has been brainwashed and votes for stooges who do not even live in their electorates. That is what one is up against.
    When voters begin to get smart then we will see small players throw their hats in. That is the ideal of what politics is supposed to be about....not the roadshow rubbish dominated by frauds posing as community representatives which seems to be the only game in town.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    3:13pm
    So that's why you have such anger in you Mick. You stood and were rejected by your electorate.

    How frustrating for you to have all the answers and be rejected by the 'brainwashed public' from whom you sought votes.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    8:38pm
    Not worth a comment KSS. You are clearly a piece of work and likely on the list of those paid to comment given some of your political adds.
    "Anger"? Really? I threw my hat in the ring knowing that voters only know 2 flavours. The fact that the electorate does not always get it right is clear by the results. The dog's breakfast is there for all to see...from both sides. The people we keep electing are not for the most part worthy of running a chook raffle let alone a nation. And you work for them. Says it all.
    Cat
    6th Feb 2015
    2:51am
    Mick, I think that more people than ever are sick of those 2 flavours, and still haven't found an alternative, so you never know, your time may eventually come. The problem is getting the message out because the major parties get all of the air time.

    There are growing issues with aging population, and I think that new independent candidates with their finger on the pulse about this, as well as representing the financial interests of retirees, will become a more appealing candidate.

    Some of the current policies on aging population are way off, and potentially catastrophic. The current strategy to deal with an aging population is more migration so there are more working aged people to support a larger group of retirees in the near future. But what I am seeing right now is a growing number of people in their 40's, 50's, and even older enrolling in undergraduate uni courses, across all faculties. Most seem to pick courses that drop straight into a job right after the 3 years like pharmacist, teacher, radiation technician, but a few are going for the long haul of 7 years to be a registered psychologist, etc, I think there are a lot of people that can not afford to retire at all, or live in what they have in the future, so have to re-invent their future.

    The current policies no not recognise this, and the older cohort of job seekers will just find it harder to compete for jobs with increasing migration, and even more older people will likely be pushed into unemployment and poverty.

    I am not against immigration because we still need it, but it would be far better economically if those people who did wish to continue working had the opportunity, rather than push the projected equation for the future of having a migration level that will supposedly result in 4 younger people of 'working age' supporting each older person, which is what is supposed to magically happen in another decade or so under the arranged migration rate. I severely doubt that this will magically happen. It's pie in the sky, and I don't believe that the future job market, economy, productivity, efficiency level etc. will support that.

    No doubt it's no surprise that it's also been reported in the news that older Australian's are experiencing age discrimination in the workforce.I'm not saying that people should not retire. People should be able to enjoy their retirement if they want to and should not have to work over retirement age if they don't wish to. The point is that I have not heard one politician have anything to say about any of these issues. All I hear these days from them is about who is suing who for what. If someone stepped in the ring representing older people and got their message out, I think they'd have a chance, especially if their target group was broad, not just retirees but also at least people in their late 40's & 50's.



    Also, while I am not against immigration because we do need a certain level of immigration, the current policy of younger migrants supporting older people doesn't
    BigBen
    4th Feb 2015
    1:22pm
    Why are people complaining about low interest rates?
    High interest rates usually means that the rate of inflation is also high which effectively devalues savings over time.
    Whilst low interest rates means dipping into savings to get an adequate income, we do now have a very low rate of inflation so we are really no worse off.
    Also the RBA acts independently of the Government and their decision to cut interest rates is because we have low inflation and they also want to stimulate business which rely on cheap loans to overcome cash flow problems and to invest in creating new jobs.
    KSS
    4th Feb 2015
    1:27pm
    Yes BigBen I agree, but many here don't let the truth get in the way of a good moan or an opportunity to blame the Government.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    3:17pm
    Wait until you go to buy that new car or TV BigBen...or any of the many imported goods you buy.
    So you think that the RBA acts "independently" of the government eh. That may not be as true as we all believe.
    The reason for cutting rates is not about low inflation. It is about supposedly stimulating the economy but that has not worked well elsewhere in the world because banks are not lending to businesses, which they see as much riskier than home lending. As a result the cheap money is not reaching the very people it needs to reach. Instead it is going into house investment and this drives up the prices of houses AGAIN. Its a vicious cycle.
    And whilst we are at it lets remember that ALL governments want to creat some inflation. If you want to worry about something then consider that average earners have been hit with a decade of price increases with many from the government sector. I can see a wages explosion at some time as the attempt by this government to turn average Australians into the working poor that AMerica has is going to backfire. When that times comes the country will suffer and that includes the rich who think that they are exempt because they own the game.

    KSS: your posts are starting to sound a lot like the Solomon/Frank/miss aisle propaganda and I have to wonder if you are another alias for the above poster. Instead of slapping this worst of all governments on the back (FOR WHAT???) perhaps discuss the issues.
    BigBen
    4th Feb 2015
    8:09pm
    I really think you need to get your facts right, Mick. The price of imported goods (inc TVs and cars) are linked to the inter-bank exchange rate which in turn is linked to the RBA Interest Rate. The Aussie dollar was strong while the interest rate was high but it has now fallen to what most consider is a more realistic level with the reduction in interest rates and the price of commodities. A weak Aussie dollar makes our exports more attractive to overseas buyers and our imports more expensive to Australians. It would be nice to buy an Australian made TV or car but the cost of production in this country not competitive with the rest of the world. You can thank the unions for that and not blame the Liberal government.
    Regarding your comment that money is not being invested in businesses but in home lending, this is not strictly correct but none the less, more house lending in itself directly results in a need for new house construction which in turn creates new jobs both at the work face and in the supply chain which includes the manufacture and retail of new furniture, carpets, curtains etc etc. More houses on the market also helps to keep prices lower; its called supply and demand.
    I like your comments, KSS. You seem to be one of the few people on this forum who has a balanced and informed view.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    8:49pm
    BigBen: are you running a shell game? The facts are clear. Every time interest rates are cut the dollar falls because overseas investors find better places to invest their capital other than in Australia. Did you not notice this in the past couple of days?
    Your bit about inter-bank exchange rate and the RBA is gobbly gook because the dollar is no longer controlled and floats...which mena it goes up or down according to international investors.
    More of the same troll comments: Labor bad Liberal good argument? How predictable. And then you slap your other alias on the back? So have we lost Solomon/Frank/miss aisle and gained KSS/BigBen? Methinks it is looking so.
    The rest of you 'argument' is a textbook Liberal Party line. So it is now about exports whilst average Australians pay through the nose for imports. And suddenly we are talking about construction jobs when banks are not lending to business and when domestic jobs do nothing to pay for our huge amount of imports with a falling export revenue. Your boss Tony clearly has no real understanding of what the problem is. That is why this government can do nothing else other than come after average Australians.
    BigBen
    4th Feb 2015
    10:37pm
    Mick, It is clear to me and probably most of the other readers that you have little knowledge of the facts and are just being argumentative.
    I am pleased to note that you do acknowledge that there is a linkage between interest rates and the value of the dollar and I never said that the RBA set the dollar value, only the interest rate!!
    I also never mentioned or blamed the Labour government - I said it was the unions which have caused Australian industry to be uncompetitive and incidentally, weak management for allowing it to happen. Whilst Australians are paying more for imports than they did in the past, they are not paying through the nose for imports now. Australians are still much better off than other countries even with the weaker dollar. Suggest you compare the pensions in the UK and Greece and see what they buy. The rest of my so called "argument" has nothing to do with the Liberal party line. It is basic economic sense. Interest rate cuts DO stimulate jobs and I have given you an example as to how jobs can be created in construction and the supply chain industries as a result of an increase in lending by the banks to home buyers, a point you raised in your earlier post!
    I am pleased to be aligned with KSS. Is much better than being aligned with Chairman mick, aka Mao!
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    9:39am
    As I keep saying the trolls are so obvious by their behaviours.
    If you choose to attack unions then please also attack company Boards and their CEOs whose remuneration increases tell workers that they are not doing it tough. Horses for courses. And whilst we are on the topic Australians expect enough pay to live on. Whilst big business in particular keeps crying out for American style wages and conditions they themselves will have none of that for themselves. You hear it every other week with Cate Cantrel the latest spokesperson for the rich wanting it all.
    The problem with you and your other aliases BigBen is that you represent the interests of those who seek to take an unfair share of what does not belong to them in the first place. If that makes me a communist then I am proud of it. Whilst business deserves a cut it in no way owns everything, something which it would find hard to come to grips with.
    Your suggestion that cutting interest rates stimulates jobs is only oartially true. It never worked in both America or Japan. Japan was in deflation mode for 2 decades with zero interest rates. So much for your flawed argument.
    Argumentative? Me? Maybe. But I argue on the facts, not the Liberal Party script which you are reading from. And I repeat our writings are identical to those of a number of aliases used by the person who admitted to me that he was paid a yearly retainer from the Liberal Party for "services". That again appears to be you. Take it as you like but argue the true facts, not political propaganda and I'll leave you alone.
    wally
    5th Feb 2015
    12:08pm
    Is the pot calling the kettle black?
    BigBen
    5th Feb 2015
    12:25pm
    Mick: It is clear to me and the other contributors to this forum that your judgement is clouded with political propaganda and hatred and you are not capable of contributing anything sensible to a discussion such as this. I will not waste any more of my time trying to explain to you how the world works.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:23pm
    So the alias which posts as Solomon/Frank/miss aisle has now taken on a few new avatars.
    You are easy to spot by your posts. Always the same lies and spiel.
    The only propaganda comes from those who state things which are intended to deceive and which can normally be easilt proven as lies. But then you have been spawned from this government so why does this behaviour not come as any surprise?
    bartpcb
    4th Feb 2015
    1:35pm
    Of course retirees will cop it. Liberal governments will always go for the 'soft targets', its inherent in their DNA. Their 'strategy meetings' would go something like,
    "We need more money in the coffers, who can we get it from"?
    "We can't upset the big end of town, they'll roll us"
    "We can't upset the blue collar worker, they'll roll us
    "We can't upset the students, they'll roll us in the future"
    "So who's left Mr PM?
    "Well how about the oldies, they can't get their act together. They're not producing anything, they are costing us in health care, and they won't be a threat in the future because they're going to drop off the perch soon"?
    "That's a ripper idea PM lets do it"
    Bebe
    4th Feb 2015
    1:37pm
    I am not doing hand stands over the interest cuts. They go on about the young ones
    saving money and being able to spend more. We saved for our retirement, been
    retired for 25years, my husband is 91 years and I 89 years, when he retired we kept
    ourselves for 18 years before receiving a small pension. We still have rates to pay
    insurance, medical insurance, over the last few years our savings have dropped
    dramatically. I suppose soon they will ask us to pay to mind our savings for us.
    particolor
    4th Feb 2015
    4:04pm
    ?? I thought they were doing that now !!
    yippie
    4th Feb 2015
    2:09pm
    If you are looking for an alternative party you could try map (matured aged party) it is just starting up & is looking for new members it is also under themap.org.au or google matured aged party.Hope this helps.Its worth having a look.
    Patriot
    4th Feb 2015
    8:30pm
    yippie,
    Thanks for that info. I do not want to be negative but, if you have a look at the following link, you'll see all the parties in Australia listed. And that excludes independents!. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Australia
    What frustrates me more than anything is, we have phones, TV, Internet, cars, busses, trains, planes and many more tools that should make it very simple to converse, discuss & debate with one-another. Despite all of this, we seem to be "PigHeaded enough" to refuse to use these tools and, rather than amalgamate into an ENORMOUSLY POWERFULL FORCE that will become UNBEATABLE, we elect to just "Stuff Around" and elect to waste our efforts with the predictable reward of NOT GETTING ANYWHERE but very FRUSTRATED.

    What do ALL these parties, including the Independent Candidates, have in common:
    1 They are genuinely concerned for Australia
    2 Their Core Value System is very similar - effectively the same
    3 All of them are relatively unselfish and have "the Common Good" at Heart
    4 They all want to become Prime Minister of Australia (Independents excluded)

    IF they were to sit together and converse effectively, they would find
    1 That there are only minor differences in philosophy that would NOT be caught under the Core Values heading
    2 they'd probably loose the Sex Workers Party - but you cannot win them all!
    However as they excercise the "oldest Trade in the World, they should be allowed to practice
    3 that in isolation of one-another they'll never reach their aim.

    Now let's have a look how the Big Boys are tackling these things.

    Many years ago, the Libs & Nationals found that they were competing with one-another and - on many an occasion - the ALP was the benefactor of this.
    So, they had the same "Get-Together" as I'm referring to above and found the same.
    Their solution was to AMALGAMATE and have a much better chance to defeat the EVILS of LABOR!!!!
    And "Lo & Behold" they have been much more successfull ever since.

    So, I suggest that all the small parties do the following:
    1 Put their aspirations to become Prime Minister or Premier aside
    2 Amalgamate - but retain their individuality if they must - to form a coalition of parties which - obviously is legal as it has been done
    3 Get a decent set of Policies and widely publish them Katter Party Policies is a good start???
    4 Undertake to Introduce Citizens Initiated Referendum & Voters veto principles in the "First Term in Office" and explain the effectiveness of these mechanisms. POWER to the PEOPLE!!!
    4 Work, Communicate & Campaign like hell in order to win government
    5 Worry about the "Top Job" when this becomes necessary
    6 If you're religous, after that pray that the people of Australia - once again - become dilligent and keep control of the people they have voted for. IN OTHER WORDS, get off their asses and ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE in the process of government.
    Reeper
    4th Feb 2015
    2:15pm
    This is progress, not as some have dribbled already an attack on 'seniors'. I have little doubt that when our Grandchildren are our age there will be something to piss them off about finances and how the government doesn't care. Getting old does not entitle us to anything only the seeds we had sown during our lives...if you were went through life spending and frittering away your money, don't expect someone else to cover your cost of living now. No government, ALP or Liberal will ever be in a position to give seniors a life of luxury some of you seem to think you are entitled to; try looking around and you will see other seniors in far worse situations than you...if you are reasonably fit, try helping other seniors who may not be. This can be just bit of moral support, an invite to dinner, lift to the shops. I am sick an tired of my 'aged' peers bitching and complaining about what has been done to them......YOU DID IT!
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    3:25pm
    Some truth in the first part of your post. I often wish those whose expectations are unrealistic would go to America or the third world so that when they get home they can thank the Lord.
    But then I see the way the wealth of this and other nations is manipulated so that the rich get much richer whilst average citizens are expected to pay. This pretty well sums up the past 12 months of this most pitiful of governments. Whilst crying wolf Tony Abbot has financially attacked average Australians whilst the rich got another tax rate decrease.
    Seniors should not expect to live in the lap of luxury but they should never be fair game and this is where the current government has underestimated what seniors are not going to wear. "Let them eat cake" indeed!!
    dougie
    4th Feb 2015
    2:24pm
    No comment on the interest rate as wiser men than I with much more knowledge and information set that rate.

    However I am willing to wager that if the rate went up to the 10% or more that is spoken of according to many it would still be the fault of whichever government was in office.

    What a waste of time and effort to critisise that decision that we have no real knowledge of the reasons for which it was made.
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    3:27pm
    Up or down governments need to weigh up the fall-out. Is this not why we employ heads of department who earn around $800 000 pa? For good advice? Maybe not.
    particolor
    4th Feb 2015
    4:16pm
    Word of the Year ...EARN .....
    pate
    4th Feb 2015
    3:36pm
    10% which days were those? 20 years ago I managed to save $1,000 # thought I was doing okay when I got paid 17% for 12 months once and that was it. Since then the namks got onto the fa;se charges when they were collecting money for the Federl government (GST) & because I wanted my money early I was charged more more than I got in interest. I think I ended up owing 5.00 for putting my money ihe bank for 2 months. I would have been better off putting it under my mattress which will be the same now.
    Helen-gran
    4th Feb 2015
    4:24pm
    Surely if your retirement income from your investments drops lower, you may be entitled to claim a part pension, along with all the discounts that go along with it. Centrelink should prepare for an avalanche of enquiries!
    Nan Norma
    4th Feb 2015
    4:29pm
    The problem is that it is dropping but centrelink has not lowered the deeming rate to keep up with it. So they count you has getting more interest than you actually are.
    Grateful
    4th Feb 2015
    6:30pm
    Hockey has just said that there will be no cuts on income, but, will cut expenses. What does that tell you????
    MICK
    4th Feb 2015
    8:51pm
    Sounds like desperation to me. But this will help althought he devil is always in the detail.
    CindyLou
    4th Feb 2015
    11:53pm
    I'm pleased interest rates are low...gives younger generation, especially families some much needed help. Low interest rates affect my investments but I'll be ok, other things are cheaper nowadays...today filled my car with diesel $1.11 litre, yahoo.
    Im a happy gal.
    vincent
    5th Feb 2015
    12:20am
    Funny to see you lot from another perspective, a lot of parochial crap really.a bit of background from my side migrated to aus in 1980 always have had an interest in politics.
    One thing that stands out from that period ( fraser years) and yes johnny was treasurer and left us with a whopping deficit hence his preoccupation with the surplus. Have you all forgotten this? But when the next election took place and the conservative government was ousted the greens under Don Chipps had 10% of the primary vote yet no representation in parliament. If this can occur then there is something inherently wrong in the australian election system. Sorry Mick just voting for independants is just a bandage solution. Get rid of the two party system and preferential voting would be a good start to rectifiying a few problems.The two party system just corrupts both sides of the political system. As far as I am concerned, I came with a suitcase a wife and two kids. I worked my ass off, did run a business and kept at least a dozen of aussie families in bread. I did not cost the government a cent and never held my hand out. Was it tough sometimes Yes. People say you are lucky, bollocks it is sheer perseverance to make a life for yourself but mainly for your kids. That involves making sacrifices something that a few people on this forum just don't understand, and yes I live of my own money. Not lucky but planning and living within your means.No I am not affiliated with any party because they are not worth it. Australia cannot afford any longer the shenanigans of a two party system, one party builds it up and the other one rips it all down, what a waste of resources. We can as a nation no longer afford this sort of nonsense. Getting rid of the two party system and change to proportional voting has two benefits.you can not get the ridicilous situation that you get minor parties up on preferences and no party can govern in its own right ( No Mandate).In having to form a coalition you will take out the costly swings in policy decisions we have had to endure so far with all the uncertainties in the finance and industrial sectors.That's my part no doubt you will all comment on this, brin g it on.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    9:44am
    I like your post vincent. It has understanding and I have been suggesting voters vote for Independents for a long time now because what you say is spot on. The 2 party system has had the same problems all over the world and voters need to fix it and the parties who control the game by voting them out. I guarantee that after 1 term in the wilderness both sides will come back with their tails between their legs and start working for the country rather than themselves and their vested interests who provide them with election funding. IS THIS NOT WHAT WE ALL WANT???????
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    10:36am
    The 2-party system works just fine mick.
    That is - for the Bankers & the Global Industrialists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It has been designed & promoted to perform the function it is currenly effectively doing.
    In 1215 manyPeasants & Serfs gave their blood to have the Magns Carta & Haebius Corpus introduced as the SHRINES of MANKIND's FREEDOM.
    The BASTARDS have taken quite some years to effectively circumnavigate these mechanisms. However, they have done it!!!

    It is now up to us to - once again - reverse this sutuation and raise the Human Condition from the Current SERFDOM to a status of DIGNITY.

    Sorry, more than 8 again!
    But you must admit, this was a short one though - maybe I'm learning?
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:28pm
    I'm not sure the system was developed with how it now functions in mind. But pollies are highly controlled and as I have siad before mostly 'prostitutes' for those who put in money for favours.
    The repeal of the Carbon Tax was an $8 billion wondfall for the fossil fuel industries with the banks being the financiers of these industries abd reaping much of the benefits.
    Average people are so gullible and so easily led but they should not lose hope. You beat the bastards by ending the game, but this takes single minded behaviour, something which may come in time. That is what I like about the internet: it is not yet totally under the control of the rich and information is there for all to find. Seek and ye shall find!
    vincent
    5th Feb 2015
    12:20am
    Funny to see you lot from another perspective, a lot of parochial crap really.a bit of background from my side migrated to aus in 1980 always have had an interest in politics.
    One thing that stands out from that period ( fraser years) and yes johnny was treasurer and left us with a whopping deficit hence his preoccupation with the surplus. Have you all forgotten this? But when the next election took place and the conservative government was ousted the greens under Don Chipps had 10% of the primary vote yet no representation in parliament. If this can occur then there is something inherently wrong in the australian election system. Sorry Mick just voting for independants is just a bandage solution. Get rid of the two party system and preferential voting would be a good start to rectifiying a few problems.The two party system just corrupts both sides of the political system. As far as I am concerned, I came with a suitcase a wife and two kids. I worked my ass off, did run a business and kept at least a dozen of aussie families in bread. I did not cost the government a cent and never held my hand out. Was it tough sometimes Yes. People say you are lucky, bollocks it is sheer perseverance to make a life for yourself but mainly for your kids. That involves making sacrifices something that a few people on this forum just don't understand, and yes I live of my own money. Not lucky but planning and living within your means.No I am not affiliated with any party because they are not worth it. Australia cannot afford any longer the shenanigans of a two party system, one party builds it up and the other one rips it all down, what a waste of resources. We can as a nation no longer afford this sort of nonsense. Getting rid of the two party system and change to proportional voting has two benefits.you can not get the ridicilous situation that you get minor parties up on preferences and no party can govern in its own right ( No Mandate).In having to form a coalition you will take out the costly swings in policy decisions we have had to endure so far with all the uncertainties in the finance and industrial sectors.That's my part no doubt you will all comment on this, brin g it on.
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    8:11am
    OK, I'll start bringing it on then seen that you expect such an opposition to your ideas.
    Contrary to what you think, I believe that there is a "Lot of Merit" in most of the ideas aired in your spiel which - obviously - is not expected to be read by those looking for entertainment.
    THE AUST VOTING SYSTEM IS INDEED RIGGED - I think we all know this!!!
    Additional to above, the implementation of Citizens Initiated referendum & Voters Veto (recall) mechanisms could make reformation in accordance with your ideas a "Working Democracy"

    The only other things that are then required to be implemented:
    1 Make MEANINGFULL education of the Aust Constitution in Schools compulsory
    2 "Flip over" Gun control to the system adopted in Switzerland where every home has a registered gun and must prove His/Her ability to use this implement at regular intervals.
    Wonder why the Crime Rate in Switzerland is so low and WHY their army is so small. It would be virtually impossible to take Australia if this were to be implemented. That is, except via Nuclear invasion of course. And Criminals, they are really not all that interested if/when they know they could be staring down the barrel of a gun.

    For educational purposes - in order to (potantially) enlighten the curiosity of those who want to expand their mind - I have taken the liberty to enclose 2 links which further expand on the ideas proposed.

    https://archive.org/details/TheMoneyTrick
    Http://www.cis.org.au/publications/policy-monographs/article/2949-initiative-and-referendum-the-peoples-law

    To conclude - except for the Trolls - I think that you'll find a lot of agreement with your ideas.

    To conclude, I unfortunately believe that there will be a revolt before the Australian people are able to introduce you - or a similar system.
    Our present "Criminals in Charge" at State & Federal Governments just would not entertain such ideas as it would remove their families from their "CUSHY existence.
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    9:50am
    I am more hopeful than that Patriot. All I need to be able to achieve is for voters to vote in Independents who are not 'owned' by anyone other than their own consciences. As a colleague once said to me: it doesn't matter if you vote in Billy the Blacksmith because they are advised by the best people money can buy. I have come around to that view although personally I would still pick a suitable person. Voting for somebody like Ricky Muir would worry me. Having said that Ricky is doing a lot better than he did when he started and perhaps will do us all proud yet....unlike the scourges on both sides of politics who make acting dishonestly an artform and who are in some cases corrupt and owned by rich businessmen.
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    10:21am
    Mick,
    I agree that - in the end it does not matter how much of a "twit" you put in as long as he/she is controlled by the people. JUST A DUMMY!
    This- of course - demands that "The People" are active participants in the processes of Democracy.

    That is where Citizens Initiated referendum & Voters Veto come into play.
    Section 128 of the current Aust Constitution already included the Referendum mechanism. However, only the Pollies Can & WILL utilise this mechanism if they want an INCREASE in POWER (Theirs of course).
    That is why many referenda fail - The electorate is (collectively) quite smart.
    Prof Walker analyses this in his book called the "People's Law" of which I have included a link for downloading & perusal.

    http://www.cis.org.au/publications/policy-monographs/article/2949-initiative-and-referendum-the-peoples-law

    I'll put is very simple:
    If you employ somebody to erect a treated timber paling fence around your yard with a height of 8 feet and the contracter you utilise to complete the job erects a 5 feet high chainwire fence which extrudes into the neighbour's property WOULD YOU PAY HIM FOR THE JOB.
    Of course NOT and neither should we pay politicians who DO NOT ENACT THE WILL OF THE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE.
    CIR & VOTERS VETO are the mechanism that would FORCE our Pollies to do as directed and reverse those actions that have been taken previously against the Will of the Electorate!
    It nearly was introduced in Queensland in the early 1900s.

    I'm sorry for those looking for just entertainment. I could not help myself and have - once again - exceeded 8 lines!
    MICK
    5th Feb 2015
    2:34pm
    Patriot: referenda are not binding. That is the problem with them.
    Politicians are not required to do what they promised in an election campaign. Never was this clearer than with this most disreputable of governments.
    What we need is a bill which introduces some accountability and the removal of judicial protection when pollies act dishonestly and/or perversely. I'd like to see that one get in. No side of politics will ever accept accountability and the need to behave honestly and that tells you what the public is dealing with.
    Young Simmo
    5th Feb 2015
    1:04am
    OK, I might be going off at a tangent but I will say it anyway. I believe I am the average sort of contributor to Life Choices. It is a fantasticly entertaining site for us oldies but I feel I should say something. I read most comments that are from 1 to maybe 10 or 12 lines, and believe most others do the same. To the people that want to illustrate their enormous knowledge, and typing ability and write gigantuous comments, I think you might be wasting your time.
    OK I am open to criticism here, do others agree or disagree with me ????
    In a nutshell, short is sweet, big is boring.
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    7:45am
    Young Simmo,
    I think you're right for those - as you suggest - who are looking to this site with the attitude that it is funny and should be considered as "entertainment for oldies".

    However, those who are looking for SHARING knowledge - and at times be educated by somebody elses "Illustration of their knowledge" (???) - will certainly read the longer postings and - hopefully - investigate & verify the links that are forwarded.

    So I see it as an individual choice and feel that the attitude of the readers will "Sort Out" which messages they absorb.
    However, it is only fair to expect that those looking for entertainment do not frustrate those who are looking for a deeper level of discussion.
    particolor
    5th Feb 2015
    9:03am
    You just made it in at 8 lines ! So I read it !! :-)
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    9:46am
    particoloUr
    Take your sock Off & "Spread the Thumbs" sothat each hand has 5 digits.
    That's when it will become obvious to you that the message has 12 lined because than you'll be able to count to 12.
    Counting past 20 might become somewhat embarassing though!?!?!?!
    Young Simmo
    5th Feb 2015
    12:02pm
    OK, point taken Patriot and it is for everybody. Maybe I should just have pointed out that probably only 5% or 10% of readers would read and comprehend those big long technical comments. Then probably 100% would read the shorter more entertaining or humorous comments.
    Let's say we are both right.
    particolor Bunning's have a special on good old fashioned slide rules, you know the ones we all had back in the 1940s. Rush out and get one.
    It looks like 7 or 8 lines,,,,,,,,,,, PHEW !
    Young Simmo
    5th Feb 2015
    12:04pm
    Bugger 9 lines , it looks like you better get 2 slide rules Parti, 1 each.
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    12:19pm
    Young Simmo I don't mind a "bit of fun" as you hopefully notice and such is so much better when it is at somebody elses expense.
    Fun, if taken TOO FAR can become very disruptive though!
    The "crux of the matter" is that I don't disagree with you at all. However, SOME of the "Half Hearted Ones" cannot be "Stirred into Action" no matter what you do.
    I am convinced that - if we are going to get out of the mess we're in - we must take urgent action in order to ensure that the least people "Get Hurt". I am trying to educate the "Serious Ones" and also BE EDUCATED by them. Others are OK too !!!
    Notice - 8 lines excluding this comment !!!!
    Patriot
    5th Feb 2015
    12:21pm
    Young Simmo,
    I am about the facts as - unfortunately - they are.
    Not the BuulS..t that is on the TV & in the Papers.

    TRUTH IS VITAL
    Young Simmo
    7th Feb 2015
    3:06pm
    Patriot if you want fun and enjoyment join Life Choices, if you want serious rubbish become a Politician.
    Simple really.
    Radish
    8th Feb 2015
    2:20pm
    There are posts from certain contributors that I never read as they are too long and too many CAPITAL LETTERS!

    5th Feb 2015
    3:25pm
    I am a retiree "Cash Cow" and no longer able to be employed....Where will they try next....SAL
    particolor
    7th Feb 2015
    1:53pm
    Ask Dorothy Patriot !! Knows Everything !


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