Crackdown on welfare fraud

As of 1 July, the Government has increased its efforts to wipe out welfare fraud.

Thousands of Australian welfare recipients may find themselves the target of the Government’s new bid to wipe out welfare fraud.

As of 1 July, the Government has increased the Department of Human Services’ (DHS) capability to detect, investigate, deter and punish suspected welfare fraud. The initiative also includes improvements to automation of assessment procedures, better targeting of high risk areas and recovery of debts owed by welfare cheats.

Around 800,000 individuals currently receiving unemployment, disability or pension benefits, who are under suspicion of providing misleading information about their incomes, will come under increased scrutiny.

The Government expects to recoup about $1.7 billion from thousands of welfare cheats courtesy of the DHS’s extended fraud detection powers and changes such as:

  • Cease payments to jobseekers who don't follow the rules and conditions aligned with receiving Centrelink benefits.
  • Welfare recipients will no longer be able to use payments to lease TVs, fridges or other goods under an indefinite or short-term contract of less than four months.
  • Parents earning more than $100,000 (reduced from $150,000) will no longer be eligible for the Family Tax Benefit Part B payment.

It is hoped that the new fraud detection capabilities will strengthen the integrity of Australia’s welfare system to make it more sustainable and provide better support for those who need it most.

Read more at www.couriermail.com.au

Read more at www.sbs.com.au

Opinion: A fairer system for all

The Government’s effort to reduce the amount of welfare fraud throughout the system is commendable. After all, why should those who don’t follow the rules be allowed to continue to receive welfare benefits?

However, this effort will only be of benefit if the money recovered is then put back into the Treasury’s coffers and used to ensure the protection of pensions and benefits for those who truly need it most.

Anyone who has had experience dealing with Centrelink will surely welcome any improvements to the welfare system. The increase in fraud detection powers is but a small part of what the Government is trying to do to improve the fairness of benefits.

I wonder, however, could similar efforts be applied to chasing down corporate tax fraud and avoidance? Surely tracking down and recouping the money that should be paid to Australia by offending multinationals far outweighs the paltry savings which these DHS initiatives may produce and which would significantly further help the budget out of its precarious state. 

In 2015/16, the Government will spend an estimated $154 billion on welfare – that’s 35 per cent of total Government expenditure. The action being undertaken to reduce welfare fraud is hoped to recoup around $1.7 billion over the next four years (i.e. around 1.1 per cent of total expenditure divided by four years). With an initial investment of $60 million, and who knows how much more further down the track, the return on investment is not exactly flattering. 

It would be interesting to see how much more the Government could prop up our ailing bottom line by applying the same pressure to multinationals. After all, it could be said that these big companies are also enjoying the benefits of Government welfare.

What do you think? Are you happy that the Government is trying to reduce welfare fraud? Will this new crackdown affect you? Do you think the Government's priorities are wrong and that the big end of town should be targeted first?





    COMMENTS

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    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:29am
    A good article.
    There would be many many Australians who are sick of it. Only last week we had the next smirking woman gloating about how she can make more money from unemployment benefits than working. So how long has this attitude been rolling along!
    Every decent Australian would welcome a REAL shakeup in the social security system. When one looks at the annual welfare bill and the growth in the large cohort of bludgers it is clear that the country cannot, and should not, pay for this Greek look alike lifestyle.
    The only place I take issue with the large pool of money which can be saved is HOW it will be spent. Will this government add to the $8 billion annual handout it has given to the fossil fuel industry? Will it reduce tax rates for its rich mates and hand them the money? I think that that the author of this article is being rather naive to think that retirees are going to see one red cent. The scene has already been set for this end of society and expect to see more attacks as with the rest of average Australians.
    We live in interesting times.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:35am
    Do you honestly believe this woman had received so much welfare? Have a look at the Centrelink website and it will prove she is a liar.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:08pm
    The program gave the breakdown. I think that the reporters have this one right and have not even included rent subsidies, free travel and all of the other add-ons which turn this sort of crooked behaviour into a lucrative lifestyle.
    maelcolium
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:08pm
    Mick for heaven's sake. That interview was a bit of media theatre to satisfy the titillation of viewers. The person interviewed was an idiot and hardly representative of welfare recipients. This is politics of envy that you are demonstrating which I find disgusting and ill informed. I volunteer in the area and can assure you the vast majority are in need of a safety net or they would rot in the gutter.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:11pm
    What free travel? Doesn't rent go to the landlord? That would make landlords welfare recipients too. You can hardly turn $725.40 a fortnight into $1000 a week.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:40pm
    When you cook the figures maelcolium you end up with egg on your face. I leave you to watch the interview online and then check the figures and report back. Seriously...the reporters would not invent the figures. If so then they would be caught out by MediaWatch and that is not where any of the big media outlets want to end up.
    Whilst we will agree that there are genuine welfare recipients there are many who are not. You will read this from posters on this website. I have seen them from personal experience. And if there are some...then there would be a lot more.
    I agree with you about the media beat up. The media normally picks an extreme example to make a point. But remember also that sick flicks like Housos came from somewhere and despite rolling every bad trait into one production the conduct of some of our wonderful welfare recipients is without question spot on. If not then how could the shock jocks just keep coming up with the video.
    As always I feel sorry for the genuine recipients. The problem is that I suspect, as do others, that there may be a lot less 'genuine' recipients than some people think.
    Fliss
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:56pm
    Mick, you are spot on. As you said, the program gave the breakdown of figures - family payment parts A & B, Single parent benefit & carers allowance - total of nearly $1900.00 per fortnight.

    2nd Jul 2015
    10:29am
    Yes do both cut and prosecute those who are cheating on welfare and also have a real go at some of these Multi-nationals that are transferring profits elsewhere and not paying the correct amount of tax.
    maelcolium
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:11pm
    Agreed robbo and also have a crack at the overpaid politicians who are rorting the system with travel allowances, gold cards. accommodation allowances, inflated expenses, conflicts of interest etc. Remember the expose' on mafia links to politicians? Isn't it surprising how quiet things have gone since that revelation?
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:50pm
    Tony Abbott's salary is higher than the rest of the world's leaders. http://www.paywizard.org/main/salary/vip-check/world-leaders-salaries
    Young Simmo
    2nd Jul 2015
    4:26pm
    Yeh Jackie and his pay is a tiny fraction of what the bosses of Australia Post and Centrelink get. Go check it out.
    Also those 2 sit in their office all day playing games on their computer. Tony Abbott at least gets off his arse and is on TV somewhere most days.
    Captain
    2nd Jul 2015
    6:52pm
    Check out the salaries of CO'S in local govt. The CEO of Whitehorse receives more than $500k per year.

    The multi nationals and top end of town need to be investigated as well.

    However I suppose that the aged will once again be screwed.
    jackie
    3rd Jul 2015
    1:41pm
    Young Simmo, I see you don't mind Tony Abbott working so hard at ripping you off and selling off the country to foreign ownership. Ha ha
    greatgolly
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:32am
    A long time ago, being so tired of welfare cheats, I left notations of such on the desk of our local Centrelink, doing it as I left the desk, on this notation were details of people who knowingly were cheating the system, or I suspected such, that was over 2 years ago, and those same cheats are still at it and never been contacted by Centrelink; so, is Centrelink or their staff serious about catching the cheats, I think not! I can only surmise those notations went straight into the bin, so I ask, what is the point in asking people to dob cheats in as when they do, nothing happens?
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:56am
    Easier to do nothing. More job security with doing nothing. That is a huge problem with those in positions of power: they get on by back slapping and not rocking the boat. In the meantime the country's viability continues to slide.
    Gerry
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:50pm
    maybe your intentions were honourable but perhaps you would have been better served by going through the proper procedure on the DHS website http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/information/fraud-and-security

    leaving a post-it note on the desk of an already overworked & stressed-out employee with no other details is hardly the best way to achieve your desired outcomes.
    maelcolium
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:14pm
    Sheesh greatgolly. Has our society come to this? Let's all dob in our neighbours because we THINK they are welfare cheats. Seriously?
    marls
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:58pm
    i agree with you, i know people of the carers benefits, that live 2hrs away from the person they are caring for, and they do not go and see them or help them in any way and yet centrelink continues to allow this. yrs ago my son was working partime and on centrelink at no time was he allowed to work on the days that he had an appointment with centrelink. he was expected to say no to his shifts. and threatened to be taken of centrelink. in the end he had enough and told them where to go. they do not want or encourage people to work.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:01pm
    Precisely how did you/do you go about determining that these people are cheating?
    Abby
    6th Jul 2015
    5:47am
    Greatgolly

    2 years ago the Government would not have cared if there was fraudelence in welfare nor would have DHS website http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/information/fraud-and-security existed.
    Tom Tank
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:33am
    Cracking down on people who are cheating the Australian taxpayers is a step in the right direction. I am sure there are welfare cheats but given the publicity over recent times over tax avoidance and the fact the the ATO has suffered funding cuts impeding their ability to track down tax cheats one does question where this governments priorities lie.
    The ATO have clearly stated that their audit section showed a very handsome return on their activities but that has been damaged due to cutbacks.
    Whose side is Tony Abbott on? If I may pinch a phrase.
    Doesn't appear to be the ordinary Australians.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:01am
    The tax office goes mainly goes after the small fry who do not use lawyers to defend themselves. The occasional rich person is pursued but I often wonder if this is show more than anything else. As we saw from the senate grilling of the very rich pharmaceutical industry they all gave the same response: they were working within the laws. In the end it is the fault of laws which allow the rich to legally avoid their tax responsibilities. What one has to ask is WHY has this never been fixed? Is it the same reason why the superannuation tax shelter set up for the benefit of the rich has also never been fixed? Probably so!
    Gerry
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:55pm
    I am a former ATO employee & believe me the ATO does go the largest corporations in Aust, but the thing is these matters are usually settled and the public never gets to know about it because of the ATO's secrecy & privacy laws and the companies don't want reputational risk. The public only gets to hear about it when it gets to court & into the public domain, eg Paul Hogan & various other corporations over the years.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:42pm
    I take your point. But how many of the top 200 companies does the ATO get?
    marls
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:01pm
    mick we all know the answer to that and what politicians get away with.
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:35am
    I don't believe there are many who fit this description, though I agree there are some. I believe the savings will be small but should be stopped. But I believe, this will be another way of denigrating those on welfare, a favourite pastime of this Government. Meanwhile the PM who denigrated Julia Gillard for spending $66,000 on The Lodge, is now spending $8.8 million on The Lodge. And God knows how much on this latest border army. And today, $274 million to redevelop RAAF Base Williamtown. There is always money for security and war. But not for the 70 Australian women who die at the hands of domestic terrorists every year in Australia. We are ruled by lunatics and the Labor party aren't much better.
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:07am
    Mick, my conscience has prevented me voting for either of the two major parties, for many elections. Neither has the best interests of Australians at heart.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:09am
    So vote for an INDEPENDENT...and talk to your friends about why this is so important. The way to change bad government is to not keep doing the same thing
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:16am
    You are so right. Sadly the general public has been brainwashed by both sides of politics that Independents have no power and are a wasted vote. The problem is not that we have too many Independents. It is that we still have too few.
    There is a big change around the world with populations everywhere growing increasingly tired of misgovernment.
    Mainstream politics is running anti-independent scare campaigns with both sides fearing what will happen when the public gets a taste of responsible real government. But it needs people to come on board and more importantly to discuss with their network why we need a change.
    Thanks for doing your bit.
    Adrianus
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:30pm
    So mick, your idea for a better world is to vote "Independent" and preference Labor? What difference will that make?
    More boats,
    More waste,
    More taxes,
    Greater power to Woollies & Coles,
    More welfare for those who don't need it,
    Lowering of border security,
    Regaining our laughing stock status Globally,
    More pressure on small business,
    More waste,
    More crocodile tears from government ministers,
    Higher $ exchange rate,
    Less foreign investment,
    More waste,
    Higher cost of living,
    More sovereign debt,
    Bigger government,
    more public servants,
    more waste,
    I could go on but I'm running out of ink.
    Gerry
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:59pm
    governments don't run countries, corporations & wealthy individuals do, governments just pay lip service to the voting public - and as Ronald Reagan famously once said, politicians are like nappies, they both need to be changed regularly & for the exact same reasons!!!
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:50pm
    Why does your response not surprise me Frank. Being a government paid troll is always going to get the same response.
    Both sides of politics are dead scared that voters will vote in Independents. Why? Simple: because voters would soon see that Independents are not owned by business on the one side and unions on the other. And if you want to push the point then I need to say that unions, whilst not perfect, at the very least are employed to look after their members whilst the big end of town is after money FOR ITSELF ALONE. That is the difference my friend and you know it! Again: VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT AND GET REAL GOVERNMENT, but make sure the preference does not go to the LNP. The only caveat on this advice is to be careful as some candidates calling themselves 'Independents' appear to have been set up by this government so that votes flow through to it. ASK AT THE POLLING STATION OR RING UP AND ASK BEFORE VOTING!!
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:02pm
    Gerry: I am glad that there are a few of us who understand the game.
    marls
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:03pm
    i agree no money for the taxpayers but plenty for the govts wants and waste
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:59pm
    "I could go on but I'm running out of ink." Probably just as well Frank, because what you wrote is such a load of old codswallop. Just because the LNP say things, doesn't make it true. We're not that silly, Frank. Almost the opposite of what you said is true. And I'm not a Labor voter.
    Leo
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:40am
    No wonder there is welfare fraud with Centrelink allowing people to use other peoples addresses to receive mail. We had a property where mail was received for people who did not or have never lived at the property from Centrelink. We advised Centrelink but mail kept coming. All the people needed was an address to receive mail and was a definate fraud
    Adrianus
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:33pm
    I agree Leo. Those fraudsters would have been working full time just collecting stimulus cheques from the previous government.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:04pm
    Another paid advertisement Frank?
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    4:07pm
    Honestly Frank, what rot you spout. Let's try to stick to some facts please. I'm beginning to think Mick's correct in his assessment of you.
    Adrianus
    2nd Jul 2015
    5:03pm
    I'm certainly uncovering a few of you rusted on Laborites. Looks like your idol Bill Shorten has 2 main policies. More welfare for those who don't really need it, even if it means raising taxes to pay for it. Plus gay marriage, even if it means many heterosexual marrieds will divorce.
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    6:02pm
    Gosh, it never stops coming, this rubbish.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:02pm
    Yeah Jen. You'll only see anti Labor posts from Frank. No facts. Just lies, vitriol and propaganda.....the same stuff you see from this government. No surprise!
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:07pm
    I don't mind the vitriol but I think we've all had enough of the lies.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:08pm
    Ooh - the deep undercover spy syndrome... uncovering those nasty Reds under the beds....

    On the subject - as usual there will be a hue and cry throughout the land, and when all the bulldust has settled we will hear glorious trumpeting from the government that is SAVED the taxpayer (we're all taxpayers) xx.xx Bill-Yun dollahs! In the fine print on page 20 - underneath the nude centrefold of Julie Bishop will be a tiny notation that those 'caught' actually got back - you guessed it .....xx.xx Bill-Yun Dollahs minus about xx grand...... heaps less than the cost of this propaganda exercise.

    Historically a massive proportion of 'rorters' get their benefit back in full on appeal.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:18pm
    All eyes on A Current Today for more startling expose`s of rorting.....

    Look at this man climbing on this truck... he gets unemployment benefit, disability pension and a carer pension for a mother he never even sees except to 'borrow' money from her meagre Aged Pension to feed his habits .. money that he NEVAH returns!!

    (cut to bag camera and creep music with bo-bomp, bo-bomp as Joe Rorta walks through a supermarket and buys groceries.. watch out! He might pocket something!! Never know!)

    (cut to an expert, who names no names, but speaks generalities that sound significant and allow every viewer to assume she is talking about Joe Rorta when she is doing no such thing, but is making a general statement)...

    "It's a serious problem when someone sneaks through the social security system, and ends up getting something to which they have no entitlement. These things can cost the public purse BILLIONS if they ever happen!"

    You get the gist....

    (cue Fat Hank from Colonel C'Link);-

    "Our staff are always on the lookout for anomolies, and I can assure you that every rorter will be caught.. not if, but when! The exact situation of someone allegedly receiving three payments from centrelink is being looked at right now, and appropriate action will be taken if necessary."

    (more generalisation but the viewer assumes Joe Rorta is headed for the high jump.. never happen... turns out he was on Nostart, then went on DSP, and his sister gets carers allowance, and he did borrow $50 to pay his gas bill once from Mum, and goes back occasionally to see her and take her groceries.. but never let facts get in the way of a good story...)

    I could write this stuff for a living....
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    9:35pm
    Better to publicise the problem rather than hope that it will go away. But in the end you only fix any problem like this by not being nice about it....no matter which level of the social the rorters stand on.
    Kato
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:48am
    Fair enough. but the Welfare for the Multinationals far outstrips the welfare for the taxpayer who is paying for both. Time to hit the Multinationals and for all the doomsayers if they leave let them some one else will take there place god forbid the Government could even invest in Australia.
    Grumpy
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:07am
    Kato, for all those who say we cannot pursue the big miners to pay their proper level of dues because they will up and walk away, I ask how will they take away the iron ore etc? Will they abandon all the expensive machinery and infrastructure now in place to shift it? They will need to have a good argument to put to foreign shareholders to explain such costly actions.
    This is all a game of who will blink first. Inevitably our governments cave in as soon as the miners begin staring at them.
    Grateful
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:07am
    Look what's happening in Greece, RIGHT NOW!! Not only is our WELFARE system being grossly abused by cheats, but, it is also FAR too generous. The sooner that WELFARE is only paid to those that NEED WELFARE, the sooner it will become affordable.
    While we still consider that couples with assets worth over $1 million still NEED welfare, we will not have a responsible discussion on this vital subject!!
    Are we to wait until we too have a GREEK tragedy, just because of weak governments and greedy people? With our aging population, we are well on our way to that exact outcome!!!! sadly, it will be our grandchildren that will bear the pain. Hasn't the current age pension generation done enough damage to our economy, yet, wish to persevere with their selfishness?
    Grumpy
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:25am
    Grateful you are so sadly wide of the mark it is painful. Your grasp of the reality of the Greek situation is non-existent.
    Read a little more widely and you will find the real roots of the Greek farce is tax evasion and avoidance being a national sport, endemic corruption channeling a disproportionately large share of national wealth into a few chosen hands and those in power rewarding themselves with excessively generous government pensions. Any of that sound familiar?
    If you do your reading on the real costs of retirement you will find financial advisers telling you that on retirement at 65 if you are to have a very modest level of comfort you will need superannuation of at least $1m in addition to pension rights (not entitlements as pollies would have us believe). The $1.1m asset test level is probably about right, however it will only remain so if indexed.
    Where have you ever seen any specific statistics on the proportion of welfare cheats to to genuine recipients, or the the actual cost of cheating to the total welfare cost? All we ever get is the blame the victim approach of the Coalition. Never any hard data other than a single spectacular sounding number with no context by which to judge its validity.
    Tom Tank
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:27am
    The Greek situation has a parallel to ours in that in Greece the wealthy paid no taxes at all and while welfare was overly generous. The real fault lay in not ensuring that everybody paid their fair share of the cost in running the country.
    In that regard we are similar in that the wealthy, who are often donors to political party funds, do not pay their fair share.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:28am
    Some good posts here.
    Regarding the multinationals you have to realise that there is no will to take on companies with deep pockets who will employ an army of lawyers to try and get their own way. Also, the current government has a 'relationship' with big business...which contributes election funding into its coffers. So other than sabre rattle what would one expect.
    I also respectfully point out that the "bad" Mining Tax was repealed by this government and we now have not only lost tens of thousands of jobs in mining industries but taxpayers are now stumping up $8 BILLION EVERY YEAR more than when the previous government was in power. It tells a story as to who is pulling the strings.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:38am
    Grumpy: I like your post. You'll never see anything this factual in the 'free press' which avoids telling the population the truth lest it be demanded that the rorts stop. So who owns the big media interests? A no brainer.
    World Prophet
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:46pm
    The Greek tragedy is a little more than just a few wrong things done by a few. Firstly the country's GDP is about half of the GDP of New South Wales, then there has been a very generous pension scheme for many years, where workers retired at a relatively early age on quite generous pensions, there is no industry to speak of, about a third of the working population is in the public service, and - as you so rightly point out - tax evasion is the natural pastime. Simply put, they spent much more than they made, borrowed over a long time to prop up their system, and now the piper has to be paid. Tough. And as many people have also rightly pointed out, unless our politicians show a bit of mettle and address the issue of DSP, Newstart and a host of other welfare misuse, we're heading the same way. And, again as many have pointed out, politicians should also grow some balls and tackle the tax minimisation practices indulged in by companies and individuals who can afford the advice that allows them to skirt around the rules in a barely legal way. If the guiding principles by all were the morality of their actions instead of the legality, we'd have the problems licked.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:06pm
    Hey Prophet, you talking about Australia? I can see the parallels here...and as I have stated before we are heading down this road.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:25pm
    Exactly my position, Grumpy - stated on another forum.

    Wow, Grateful - amazing leap to 'flooded with cheats'... with massive unemployment and a huge aged population, how many do you actually think are 'cheating' the system? You may end up with a genuine 3-4 per thousand.... but everyone else needs some small sustenance to live....

    How many children would starve and go without if we did not have a social security blanket? Malbunistan has 20,000 people living on the streets.. Syd-e-ney probably more... do aged pensioners who accept a gift from family to play the pokies rort the system? I see old ladies in clubs and say 'good luck' - if they want to spend $2-5 a shot and hope for a biggie - go for it - they may not be here tomorrow.

    World Prophet has it right as well... as does mick....
    Hawkeye
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:01am
    Agree wholeheartedly. For that small return, it hardly seems worth the effort.

    If the same amount of resources was spent on ensuring the multinationals (and also the rich, and the politicians themselves) paid their fair share of taxes, the return would be at least tenfold, and possibly a hundredfold or more.
    But, of course, this will not happen while we have our current system of corrupt politicians (of all persuasions) introducing over-complicated laws which deliberately contain loopholes allowing these parasites and their expensive lawyers to avoid paying their fair share.

    We need a bit of a revolution here to show the politicians that they are supposed to work for us, not we for them.
    Grumpy
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:11am
    Spot on Hawkeye. Abbott, who is merely an extension of the Howard philosophy, has in the past stated the view that when the ecnomy starts to pick up and show returns then his government will start looking at investing in Australian industry and when Australian industry has taken what it regards as its share what's left over can be used to improve welfare etc.......clearly it is, in his view, the orle of the population to serve the economy, not for the economy to serve society.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:40am
    We need people to STOP believing the lies which come from the big media players. Then the rest will come of its own accord.
    phantom
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:07am
    The "Dole" is usually justified but there is no incentive for some people with a lot of kids to get a job. The one that is rorted is the "disability pension". Doctors are conned with trivial things to get on it. Bad back, arthritis, ADD even low IQ. I know of people on it that nothing is wrong but I can't do anything because they know the system. These people that have not contributed to society all need looking at. I know people with disabilities that have jobs and don't whinge like these people.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:41am
    These people have conned the system because they can live of a pension but not the dole. Unfortunately those same people have ruined it for those genuine cases that are literally dying while trying to get the disability pension. Yes there needs to be an overhaul on disability cheats.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:45am
    The whole system is rorted because IT IS PERMITTED. If the alternative is to be thrown off benefits for 5 years with no right of appeal then those who play the game will have to decide if the risk of real poverty is worth lying and cheating for a bigger payout.
    It irks me that there are so many people cheating the system for their choice of lifestyle whilst crying poverty all the way to the bank. Social security for the bulk of recipients needs to be tied to REAL work for the community, not the free ride which has become the norm. Imagine what that would do to your re-election campaign.
    jackie
    3rd Jul 2015
    1:47pm
    Mick what do you think of middle class social security there seems to be so much of it. Couples with good salaries that can make all sorts of various claims for benefits because they have been given the privilege to do so? If they choose to have children then they should pay for them without a luxury lifestyle.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    3:41pm
    Personally I agree. What has been happening for some time is the responsibility of child rearing has changed from parents to society. Whilst I understand why this has happened I cannot condone society having to pick up the tab so that mums can have a job. Not right.
    Ken
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:09am
    Just taking the limelight away from Centrelink for a moment. Two days ago I received a letter in the mail from my energy supplier, informing me of how delighted they are to be able to tell me that as from 1st of July 2015 my energy charges would be coming down by some very minute percentage. Unfortunately (and unbelievably) 24 hours later, I hear on the TV that the energy companies cannot manage on their very low profits so the will be seeking permission to increase prices. What a joke of a world we live in.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:48am
    I got the same notice. Thought it might be because I was coming off a 2 year contract. Will be going anyway as I refuse to subsidise the coal industry.
    Low profits? After the huge rises of the last 3 years? Any electricity reseller trying to sell that story should go broke.
    Adrianus
    6th Jul 2015
    7:57am
    Ken it's not a joke. Some of these companies are struggling to make ends meet. We could hit them with higher taxes and make your bill unaffordable?
    You're right, the fact is we cant give these big energy companies a reason to raise prices.
    Jen
    6th Jul 2015
    8:15am
    If you're sick to the stomach of the lies, spin and muck that politicians and the Murdoch media feed you, and want to read something REAL, then subscribe to the Australian Independent Media. This is Kaye Lee, who always says it like it is: http://theaimn.com/you-dont-stand-for-me/
    Biddy
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:20am
    If the Abbott Government would target these big church organisations like Hill song the exclusive Bretheran and multinational companies and so many single mothers reaping welfare benefits I have never sen or heard of so many single mothers complaining of not enough money it amazes me not with one child but up to 5 children by different fathers one can excuse the first mistake but when they keep reapting the same thing over and over it is not excusable,and with no need for them to have children at all in this day and age anyway I am left speechless by A Current Affair programme with this Women making excuses that she could not work because she had I child with a sickness and the rest were ok but she out weighed the pro and cons and chose welfare and then wanted people to support her for a project as she wanted to start her own business that would cost $13000.00 she has to be kidding ,they leave me dumbfounded and choose Welfare wake up
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:50am
    I think that some of the organisations you mention are anything other than churches. They are sects and I understand that highly paid entertainers who flock there do so because of the tax free status of these organisations: a financial decision!
    Sects should be paying tax at the top marginal rate. Better still close down these family wrecking brainwashing organisations.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:15pm
    I agree and all non for profit organisations should be paying tax as well.
    dougie
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:45pm
    Why should churches be let off paying taxes? They all seem to have their business arm these days in the provision of services to governments, the operation of so called shops and other collective money earners. Churches used to provide help and succour for the very poor, ministers would visit and carry out parochial works within their communities and assist. To day they seem to be working to increase the wealth of the churches and not within the community. How long since you have had a local minister of any denomination visit you or other older people in their homes to offer comfort and prayers? It is no wonder the Happy Clappers are doing so well.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:09pm
    A good point dougie. Whilst churches do some good they also own businesses like gambling. The Catholic church is one of the biggest poker machine owners in the country and this goes against the ethos of the church and ignores the teachings of Jesus who would abhor such businesses.
    The more things change the more they stay the same?
    margie
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:32pm
    Yes Biddy and do not forget the 'foreigners' with a couple of families and 4 to 5 children each who are claiming welfare. If people choose to have a number of children then they can bloody well support them. In this day and age there are options to not having child after child. Obviously there would be some people that have a number of children and possibly the breadwinner is no longer around (death or desertion) and these should be judged on a case by case scenario. But it wouldn't hurt some of these lazy creatures to get some sort of work, and before you all start bleating that it's hard, I know that, I worked after divorce waitressing to bring up my two children. Hardly had any sleep for years but making sure they both were clothed, fed, warm and very loved. Funny thing about that but both of then work and do not expect handouts and definitely do not have the 'world owes me a living' mentality which is so prevalent in society.
    Possum
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:21am
    Not before time.
    I know of a number of recipients who are receiving benefits unfairly, who currently have big debts, and by rights should have bigger debts due to fraudulently receiving benefits they are not entitled to through telling untruths.
    I am one of the many Australians who is a little sick of it.
    I am a recipient (not because I want to be) due to circumstance and oh my goodness I had to plead my case just to receive a Newstart allowance.
    I can only speak from experience(s) and it appears that staff already have a plan before you even speak with them. I am actually appalled with the callibre of employees, and always feel as though I am a second class citizen or just another government problem.
    Kato
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:44am
    Possum they work to a script. So even a REALLY DISABLED person gets the same treatment as a good actor. That is the shame .
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:53am
    It is unusual these days to have people identified as liars and cheats. So the Centrelink officers do not rock the boat thus ensuring that they move up the ladder of success and not be sacked. It tells a story about our public service and about the political system as a whole which does not have the political will or guts to fix what is broken.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:34am
    Has anyone ever got rich from welfare fraud? Tighter identity controls would prevent fraud but this is really about getting rid of welfare.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:55am
    The argument is not about getting rich, it is about those who produce something in society supporting those who in many cases have not worked a day in their lives. Equity!
    we all need to contribute something.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:05pm
    The only people that don't have to look for work are those on pensions. Those that got on them while the going was good will never get thrown off them. They are being rewarded for life. We need to look into the tax system and destroy all the legal loopholes that wealthy tax dodgers use.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:10pm
    What...the governments funded by the rich destroying the cash cow? Come now.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:30pm
    jackie's talking about politicians..... get the boot, take your pension for life, get slipped into a nice little board 'job', stand r=for election again, continue to receive pension, board remuneration, new salary and all perks..... re-feed the super fund.. walk away with double the original pension with virtually zero productivity.

    Good work if you can get it.....
    particolor
    5th Jul 2015
    1:15pm
    Want a Gold Airline Pass with that Treb ? :-)
    chrysallis
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:34am
    Yep the rotting system has been going on for years & it will continue to do so. My complaint is about the Widows pension. There isn't too many options about for a 60+ woman to find a job. The Widows pension is the same as Newstart. Take out Rent & there is not enough to pay all the bills, let alone food. My Gas bill is $162, of that $100 is a Service charge!!!!!. Then there comes the Electricity, same thing again. Just disgusting. I think some increase is Warranted for a Widow, as if there isn't, none will survive till 65.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:47am
    The Widows pension is more than Newstart and yes I am a woman in her 60's and work. No one can live off the Dole. Looking for work is a costly expense besides rent and etc.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:59am
    Unemployment benefits are not meant to replace earnings from work. They are supposed to provide some money to survive on.
    The real issue with jobs is that both sides politics have been selling off our country for decades. This almost always results in jobs being lost from Australia and being created overseas. So what do you think this does for any country which pursues such an ill founded strategy, presided over by the same economists who 25 years ago were saying that real estate was an investment which had no value?
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:10pm
    All pensions are increased annually where as the Dole hasn't been increased since 1996.
    KSS
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:04pm
    Paying a pension to women who were widowed during the first and second world wars is one thing. Paying a 30 year old woman whose partner died in Afghanistan, East Timor, Iraq or other recent skirmish is quite simply ridiculous. During the world wars there was conscription, men had virtually no choice but to go. Today and for many years, men and women have volunteered to join the forces and are well versed in the danger of doing so. Why would the rest of Australia have to keep paying for a young woman who is more than capable of earning her own living simply because she was married for five minutes to someone who enlisted?
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:18pm
    The Widows pension isn't necessarily restrict to widows. It's paid to many women that were married and never worked and were divorced in their 40's. The government thinks they are unemployable. What a joke.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:35pm
    Arrr.. KSS - the idea is that this pension supports family and children and makes up for the deceased not being there to provide input for life as would most likely be the case.

    Widows and children of service people deserve a fair chance at life.. not to live in poverty for life, and they would have had that chance had it not been for the death of the service person.

    It's more rightly compensation, same as you'd get for losing a spouse in an industrial accident. The widow also gets payout on super accumulated as well, and rightly so.

    Honestly, sir... take a deep breath. You cannot expect service families to suffer for losing a breadwinner.
    KSS
    2nd Jul 2015
    9:11pm
    Trebor where then is the payment for every woman who loses her husband at work? It is outrageous that a young woman quite capable of working, as many many others do with or without children, should be paid just because her husband voluntarily enlisted. She is no worse off than any other widow nor should she be 'compensated'. Yes I can expect service families to suffer for losing a breadwinner just like families in every other sector do in the same circumstances.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2015
    5:10am
    In every WorkCover statement on every workplace wall is a figure of a payout for death... I doubt the deceased will be receiving it.....

    The difference is that Service widows etc receive a pension instead of a lump sum and that is to compensate for lost income etc. It makes no difference that the widow can work - the money is compensation and support for family, and to offer them the same chance (sort of) they would have enjoyed in life if the deceased had remained in paid work.

    I see no issue here. It also has nothing to do with the fact that the deceased is a volunteer, etc...it is the simple reality of loss that comes into play. In times past, when opportunities were much more limited for women, those Service widows did it very tough on less than a single income wage - nowadays we live, like it or not, in the days of the mandatory dual income.

    Why should a service widow be disadvantaged in that environment? Would you prefer 'GI Insurance', which in WWII paid out the then princely sum of $10,000 for death of a US soldier - literally enough to 'buy the farm'? So we pay a Service widow the equivalent as a cash handout immediately - then they go on Social Security or work? There's a difference? Or should we consider an insurance payout in allocation of social security benefit? Another long forgotten dock-side guarantee?

    In 1942 AWE was around 64 shillings - or three pahnd 4 shillings = $6.80. So let's just say that $10k US was a fistful of dollars at that time...

    I've long been an advocate that War Widow's pensions should equal TPI at least, if not AWE.
    jackie
    3rd Jul 2015
    1:54pm
    The majority of Australian married women with children work these days. Part time or full time.
    Lescol
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:38am
    I continue to be gobsmacked by some government reports. To believe 'about $1.7 billion' strains my credibility when the same people are unable to even estimate the $s being lost to fraud via multinationals. Even the current pharmacy inquiry shows the magnitude of events that are being allowed to happen. To charge for imported goods that were never physically exported is fraud and I trust it will be treated as such. Perhaps a return to naming and shaming is needed?
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:03pm
    Its a big game run by vested interests for their own benefit. You start to realise this when you see taxation system with loopholes which are not touched for decades, only to be replaced by new loopholes which in turn are not fixed for more decades. Add to that superannuation tax shelters set up specifically for the rich and legal structures used for little other reason other than to minimize tax.
    We have a rotten system generally presided over by representatives of the rich. AS I keep saying...vote for your best INDEPENDENT...who does not send a preference to the current government.
    helleen
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:44am
    I don't think they are doing enough, I know a lot of single mothers out there who are actually living with their partner who works and some of them full time and earn good money, I also see many with 3 and 4 kids to either the same partner or all different ones, why do these young girls think that they are entiltled to this payment, they cant be bothered working and having a partner and working together, no it is easier to fall pregnant and collect all that money the government gives them, I wanted children when I first got married but we could not afford to give them the things we wanted, so we waited worked and saved until were ready and the government did not give me thousands of dollars in bonus no we did it by ourselves. they need to police this type of payment as well as all the other pensions, as they seem to pick on aged and disability the most.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:56am
    Looking after children is hard work as a single parent but if one mistake has been made it should never be allowed to be repeated. There are more couples that have raised families on welfare whilst both have never worked. Too sick to work but healthy for sex. There is never pressure placed on these people because they are classified as decent married folk.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:05pm
    What you discuss is a 'lifestyle' choice helleen. That is what rorters do: find a way to not work, ever.
    Kato
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:46am
    The most return centrelink gets back is from those who are honest.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:06pm
    And honest people are generally the ones who are hunted down to extract more blood money from.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:06pm
    And honest people are generally the ones who are hunted down to extract more blood money from.
    jackie
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:19pm
    Centrelink's CEO get $7Mill per annum and a bonus for every welfare rejection. I don't call that honest.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:28pm
    Really?
    dougie
    2nd Jul 2015
    4:39pm
    Jackie,

    Can you make this statement as absolute fact or is it a figure plucked from the blue or passed around at some afternoon tea party. I think that it is garbage but I bet the head of Centrelink wishes it was so.
    particolor
    5th Jul 2015
    1:31pm
    The CEO of Australia Post is FUMING :-( after reading that Jackie ! :-)

    2nd Jul 2015
    11:47am
    This is not meant to be a whine or a whinge, so those of you thinking differently please rest your little finger tips and give this some thought before throwing stones. To do anything well, having a true interest and a liking of whatever you are busy with has a great effect on the results of that task - and work, ones' job, is what I'm referring to. These comments about Centrelink or politicians are mostly due to the people in those positions lacking interest, enthusiasm, or a fondness for what they are doing and the corresponding result of their work is falling dreadfully short of satisfactory. How many people do you know who are in a paid job who genuinely like what they are doing? More than five? If so, you are doing better than me. Sadly, the old work ethic has changed over years and with it so has service, responsibility, and pride in achieving good results. This we cannot easily change, but what I do find what gets mostly positive results in improving customer service is to complain when it's bad and compliment when it's good - "good" meaning the way it should be. But this oral or written comment can only be of use if directed at the right person or department - the one in charge - which is sometimes the hard bit to find. But, persevere, as change does not come easily and at least you've expressed your feelings which is a step in the right direction.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:17pm
    The words "work ethic" tell the real story about what has Happened to Australian society. Decades ago welfare fraud was reviled. Today it seems to be accepted and you get TV shows like Housos which actively promote perversion and dishonesty as a virtue. I am so glad that I am not a part of he generation which has these ideals.
    KSS
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:52pm
    I have said it many times, as have others on this site, welfare should be a safety-net NOT a lifestyle choice. Unfortunately when reports are released that state it takes 8 out of every 10 employed Australians to pay the welfare bill, there is clearly something very wrong.
    I doubt there is a single person in the country who does not believe we should support those who truly need it. The question is, are we doing that? The answer is a resounding NO!

    When you have able bodied men running off to fight for IS who were on a disability pension in Australia you must question the rigour of the assessment they supposedly went through. How many people are on disability because they can't read or are dyslexic? How many have a 'bad back' that prevents work but not their full social life? What about generational welfare where no-one in the household has worked in decades? Then there's the people in government housing who have the latest model car in the garage and who think they should be able to bequeath the accommodation to their equally welfare dependant offspring. Or the man living with his girlfriend and their child/ren each claiming the single person's allowance, or the unemployed person sub-letting a room for more cash?

    Welfare as it stands now in Australia is unequivocally unsustainable. There absolutely is sense of entitlement today that was not there a generation ago and along with it has come the poor work ethic. And before you all start in on where's the jobs? Think back to the Depression years, (or the late 1980s early 1990s and the 'recession we had to have'.) Jobs were even more scarce then yet the will to work and go where the work was, was never stronger. If you didn't work you didn't eat - simple. There are jobs out there, maybe not the same jobs as a generation ago, and maybe not your first preference, but there are jobs if you look for them.

    I am not suggesting that we return to the Depression years but I do think that many of the values of those days have been lost. The reliance on welfare has to stop and that includes across all sections of welfare including the age pension. If this crackdown initiative helps that, then I am all for it.
    maelcolium
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:04pm
    Why is welfare unsustainable KSS? Can you provide some data to support that position or are you repeating what you have heard from the groupthink establishment?
    The stereotypes you have introduced to support your point of view is also unsupported by any data, it's just something that you have churned around in your head and have decided to vomit out. Pop culture and stereotyping are not arguments but statements of ideology. Your ideology is rank and crass and you would be well advised to adjust your moral compass.
    Chris B T
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:52pm
    KSS for a greater part about jobs is correct prior to 457 VISA'S
    There is a major problem with employers, employing these people over Australian's.
    More of a preferrence to those who are not allowed to work.
    The Labor Hire Companies, do the dirty work for the Corporate Citizen and Farmer.
    The We Are Not To Blame for the shonky behaviour is the reply. :-(
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:22pm
    The Free Trade Agreement with China had no scrutiny from the public Chris B T. I understand that a part of the agreement was reciprocal labour arrangements with China: they can bring their workers here and we can take ours there. So what do you think is going to happen? They bring theirs here (because wages are higher) and Australians refuse to work in China (because Chinese workers earn around $10 a day).
    Forget about the 457 visa rorts....which were introduced by the Howard regime trying to turn Australian workers into American style slaves. The real game is Chinese coming here and taking the few Australian jobs left.
    If there were any doubts for voting for Independents was a national necessity then watch this one blow up in time. I give it 10 years max...but by that time the current boatload of rats will be gone with their wonderful taxpayer funded retirement benefits whilst the general population is running around trying to find somebody to blame.
    Chris B T
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:38pm
    Mick
    What are you on about, check your medication and read posts in there context.
    457 visa's was to employ oversea workers for work that could not be achieved by Australians and skilled base. Not manual labour jobs.
    What Part of this post was about Free Trade agreement to which has only happen.
    457 visa's are Given out to other countries than just China.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:10pm
    457 visas have been rorted. Whilst your assertion is correct they went from skilled workers (as if we do not have any!) to laborers. There is a litany of stories about this practice. No medication needed.
    In terms of the Free Trade Agreement please read the post from KSS. The point was that we have complaints about people on welfare on the side whilst at the same time jobs are being sold off to other countries....and now we have a FTA where another low wage country can bring in its own workers.....which will aggravate the problem...just like 457 visas did.
    Sorry that I am the canary in the coal mine. You clearly are happy to let the poison work before you acknowledge what is being done. Sad!
    Adrianus
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:23pm
    mick, now you're just being silly. There are a great many professionals working here from China on 457s.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:40pm
    So there are no Australian electricians, builders, chippies, fitters, nurses and so forth who are wanting a job, and could fill such a position immediately.. and so the poor Sturmbannfuhrer.. sorry .. employer.. has to bring in Untermenschen.. sorry.. foreign labour?
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    9:44pm
    My point exactly TREBOR. Unfortunately Frank is supporting the rights of the rich (this government!) to hire workers and not pay the (Australian) going rate.
    Frank is supporting the Work Choices policies of the Howard government. We all know what happened to Howard when he got so cocky that he thought that he could try it on. He couldn't. Frank won't either!
    Adrianus
    3rd Jul 2015
    2:16pm
    TREBOR its just unfortunate that they cant work in their trade when they cross a border.
    It's also unfortunate that small businesses have to pay double time on Sundays while Coles and Woolworths pay only 1.5 times on Sundays. I wonder who was the Union Boss to strike this deal???? Same union, same award, but different rules for the big 2. Why???
    mick, I'm supporting common sense.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    3:53pm
    Same one sided anti union spew Frank. Never changes.
    If you want fair conditions then get Tony to do something about it! Guess what that would do for the cosy donations from big business?
    Blossom
    4th Jul 2015
    11:02pm
    There is one company on the outskirts of Adelaide which advertised for employees off and on for a few weeks. It was a messy job and many unemployed people living the area didn't even apply for the jobAs there were insufficient applications they brought some people in on work visas. Part of their contract stated that they had to learn to speak and read English. The employer helped them find accomodation, provided transport to and from their job, and for them to go to school.
    Jen
    5th Jul 2015
    6:44am
    It wasn't a chicken factory, was it, Blossom? Biada (with factories right round Australia) import their workers, pay them a pittance, put them in poor and cramped accommodation and abuse them, according to an ABC investigation. This isn't what I want happening in my Australia in 2015.
    Adrianus
    5th Jul 2015
    8:37am
    Blossom, that's a really good story. When businesses are strong and making a profit everyone benefits. Much better to have migrants arrive in an organised fashion instead of encouraging people smugglers to only part organise our immigration.
    Jen
    5th Jul 2015
    11:33am
    Tell us how when businesses are strong, everyone benefits, Frank? If you're meaning the trickle down effect, that's been proven not to work. 457 visa workers are not part of the migrant intake. And they are, indeed being organised by people smugglers, in china, just a different kind than the ones from Indonesia, but equally sinister. Australia is the loser. It needn't be this way, but it is. Thanks Tony Abbott.
    Adrianus
    5th Jul 2015
    12:41pm
    Don't know what you mean by the trickle down effect Jen. It's also interesting to learn that people smugglers are diversifying into HR recruitment.
    I spoke to 2 people over the weekend both long term employees but in different industries. One has a certain future with good income and the other has some concerns about his job security because his industry sector is still in the doldrums. They both have young families and are positive about the future under this government.
    Jen
    5th Jul 2015
    2:07pm
    I'm trying to find (unsuccessfully) the programme about the 457 visa recruiters in china rorting the system to get people into Australia for a commission. Just another type of people smuggler, still getting people into Australia illegally. Not a squeak from Government (who's paying them) or in the mass media since. I'm hoping someone will know the programme I mean, it was on ABC about a month ago. But Frank, you didn't explain how, "when businesses are strong and making a profit, everyone benefits."
    maelcolium
    2nd Jul 2015
    12:59pm
    Treasury coffers? I hate to rain on everyone's parade but.........
    Reducing welfare fraud simply lowers the transfer of currency balances to households. The "money" doesn't find it's way back to anywhere, it's just an accounting entry. There is no wheel barrow of cash to tip into Treasury basement.
    There is not enough space here to explain how a modern monetary economy works, but no money is being saved by reducing welfare fraud and the idea that is does is illusory. The purpose of taxation and welfare payments is to act as stabilisers to the economic distribution of national income. The idea that it should be "fair" is a notion driven by politics and social mores.
    Google Modern Monetary Theory if you are interested.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:31pm
    Supposedly highly intelligent economists who play with ideas were saying only a few short decades ago that residential real estate was a worthless investment. Really?
    Please do not lecture about the modern monetary system unless you also describe in detail where capital flows to. The notion that those who exploit the world's resources own them is unpalatable at the best of times as it ignores the fact that resources are essentially owned (if you can use that word) by the civilisation which lives in a particular political area, not those who extract and market them.
    We also need to remember that there are 2 sides to business. One is the market: that is you and I and everybody else who consumes. The other is those who produce, normally known as the rich.
    geomac
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:43pm
    Sounds like a beat up to me. People can be taken off social security for not attending a meeting yet were not notified of the meeting. By the time the mistake has been rectified the person who had payment stopped is further behind the eight ball. Part B benefit payments being reduced is not welfare cheating but a reduction in the income to eligible.
    Today I read that some pollies have once again hit the taxpayer for expenses on the Polly pedal including Andrews for his wife who did not even ride. Funny that a few claim it while others do not.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:37pm
    Your post reminds me of our (supposed) justice system. If you are well heeled and show up with a QC then you get an entirely different sort of justice to a poor person showing up by himself. That pretty well explains how society works for the greater part so don't be too surprised about pollies getting away with murder. If not ten how could the current piece of work who calls himself the Treasurer claim a living away from home allowance when he is living at home and then successfully sue Fairfax media for defamation when the judge agreed that the article in dispute was well written and not defamatory? One has to wonder if the big end of town in not just one gigantic club where the players go through a charade of 'justice' and 'equality' to keep the masses happy but act like criminals whenever they think nobody is watching.
    TREBOR
    3rd Jul 2015
    4:54am
    Sounds about right, mick....
    micky
    2nd Jul 2015
    1:45pm
    Grateful
    why are you attacking the age pensioner? I have worked all of my life and payed my taxes I retired at age 70 due to ill health I have no superannuation most of the work I have done has been on a low pay how selfish am I? I would love to have a paying job but there is so much ageism out in our community the older worker has no chance of finding a job when the employer asks for your date of birth they know how old you are straight away I do not like being on the age pension but I have little choice. I am very grateful that I live in this country where there is a system to help those in need. Micky
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:45pm
    Good post. There is always a range of stories and it is never possible for one size to fit all.
    You are correct though that the current government is after you and indeed all average and lower paid Australians are on the menu. That is the game. Whilst not fair don't get angry, get even. Vote them out. Better still vote for the best Independent you can find but be aware that there are some stooges who appear to have been installed by this government to gain votes. If a candidate does not win under his/her own right then his/her preference flows through to whoever that candidate nominates. It is important to ask about this before or on polling day so that one's vote does not get channeled to the wrong party, in this instance the bad government currently ruling the country.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:07pm
    Yes - some here seem to think that people who've worked all their lives, paid taxes towards their eventual pension, and paid for the pensions and infrastructure that have been mainstays of our society - should just be grateful for the scraps from the kitchen and the merciful beheadings... (and cancel Christmas)...

    Apparently we should get down on our knees and thank the government for not spending every last cent of our pension money.....
    missmarple
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:18pm
    Micky like you I was working up till last year when I ended up on life support and had to give up working I am 70yrs young and would much prefer to be a wage earner than an aged pensioner with no super for an extra few $'s, and you are sooo right an employer see's ones age and all of a sudden the position has been filled, back to the scrap heap for you
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    10:43am
    The tragedy is that this government is telling people to work until they drop knowing full well that there are no jobs there and that employers are going to practice age discrimination. So on the one hand this mob say work until 70 but on the other you cannot get work. And then they send people for 'education' and waste taxpayer money on what they know is not a solution.
    As I keep saying......vote out BOTH sides of politics: VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT....but not one whose preferences go this this dishonest government.
    Jim
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:42pm
    Anyone who beleives that union leaders are there to help the workers are seriously misguided, it may have been the case one time but not anymore, Shorten is a prime example of doing what's best for one person only Shorten, I speak from personal experience with this grub of a man, ask anyone who once worked at the blast furnace in Port Kembla, who lost their jobs through lack of legal representation while Shorten was swanning around the country raising his profile for entry into politics, remember he is a solicitor so knows the value of legal representation. Let the excuses begin.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:21pm
    Question: which side of politics has delivered the big policies which benefit ORDINARY AUSTRALIANS? Sorry to be making a political statement as I find both sides of politics distasteful.......but the facts sort of stand out.
    Sorry you lost your job. Governments on both sides have a lot to answer for as they closed down Australia and put us in the position we are now at. FYI - I lost my superannuation nest egg when the Howard regime let the world's third largest LNG deposit be sold off to overseas interests.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:10pm
    So the union is now responsible for lay-offs in an industry? Where have I heard that before...? I used to work with a toxic dwarf who was retrenched at the Water Board.. somehow he blamed the unions for that instead of the management who actually held the knife.... and he hated unions with a vengeance. It was 'their' fault he was retrenched.

    But he was pretty stupid as well.
    Jim
    3rd Jul 2015
    7:01am
    You misunderstand I didn't lose my job, in fact I was one of the reps fighting to save the jobs which we managed to do for two years, it wasn't a retrenchment it was a change to our hard fought agreement that caused the job losses, had we had adequate legal representation we could have saved the jobs. I was a proud member of the Union for almost 50 years and years ago and even some recent union leaders worked hard and cared for the workers, Shorten doesn't come close to being amongst them, but it seems sometimes genuine criticism of any ex union leader is completely taboo.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    10:48am
    I don't think that you understand the policy Dim. BOTH sides of politics have embarked on a 'sell off Australia' campaign. They have been at it for several decades now driven by the same moronic economists who told us not to invest in houses because they were not going to go up in value and were a useless investment.
    Instead of blaming one side of politics look at the game: to sell off the country, live off the proceeds and then be retired and gone when the reality sets in that Australians have become the serfs of the third world.
    Wonderful future for our decedents....which will be derided by some readers who prefer to say 'she'll be right; always has been'.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Jul 2015
    2:53pm
    The welfare mentality of people today astounds me. We have people retiring now who expect a pension even though they don't really need it. Why? Because they worked and paid taxes etc and the system thus owes it to them. Big problem is we now have too many people retiring today with not enough government income to pay them all. Too many people are now living too long and expecting welfare for longer than it was originally designed.

    Yes I saw the lady on current affair saving she was better off on welfare than working. Personally I would find it a struggle to try and look after all those kids and hold down a full time job myself. I actually declined a job when one of my kids was little for the simple fact that I was worse off with the job than not. Note I wasn't entitled to any welfare job or not at the time. It was just having the job had more expenses than what I would have earnt.

    This whole crackdown on welfare fraud is to me just another way of frightening people and getting the more honest ones to own up.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:22pm
    The statistics are hard to ignore. 800 000 people on Disability Pensions? Are we kidding? Australia must be the world leader in disabled people!
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:15pm
    Interestingly enough, mick, the greatest historical rise in DSP was from women who were shifted off the Widow's Pension and onto Newstart. It seems that while they were on WP, there was a range of unacknowledged problems that meant they could not gain or retain work.

    True...

    Bonny - I do';t think anyone has an argument about those receiving pension and super benefits when they don't really need them, meaning those who are salting away masses into super and gaining several tax concessions in doing so when they would never be needing a pension. We all want that resolved.

    It is the overall attacks on ordinary pensioners, many of whom have done the hard yards in life in many ways, that is of concern - under this facile and heartless idea that somehow, after carrying and lifting their share all their lives, and funding pensions present and future through their income tax - they should be forced to do the lifting again while those doing the demanding that they do so live the life of Riley out of these people's taxes.

    When will Joe, Tony, Gina and The Krew accept the 'live on $2 an hour' challenge?
    Crazy Horse
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:25pm
    Thanks to the Abbot Government's mismanagement the economy is spiralling downwards towards recession. Unemployment is at record levels and growing. So what does the Government do? Slash Centelink staff so they have no where near the numbers needed to service their rapidly growing client base and attack those unfortunate enough to find themselves out of work.
    geomac
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:45pm
    Getting a job might be easier if there were more jobs to get instead of not enough. Its bad enough having too few jobs but having 457 workers in their thousands and high immigration as well makes the job market that much harder. 457 visa jobs are supposed to be for skills that we do not enough workers to fill not for cleaners etc being shafted by their employers/contractors.
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    4:13pm
    That's it geomac. Most people want to work. But when 50 or more people apply for one job, it's very, very difficult. Made worse by this Government bringing in workers from overseas. The unemployed are going to be peasants in their own land before long, vilified for not working even though they can't.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:17pm
    The result will be a huge Underworld, same as during the Great Depression etc.... people gotta live somehow...
    pate
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:38pm
    I wonder if out Great Treasurer, namely smokin' Joe, is to pay tax on the $200,000 he took from Mr. Murdoch the other day, oR Is that not taxable the way all of his thousands are not, like Gina Rinehardcastle. There is one law for the rich & another for the not so rich.
    geomac
    2nd Jul 2015
    3:50pm
    Hockey was after a million bucks but got 200,000 for the tweets. He may yet have to fork out for costs as the judge found the article accurate and that was the main argument of the Hockey case. So in affect he lost most of the case. It would be a major blow if costs were awarded against him in full or part. Need more than the 200 grand to cover that.
    bebby
    2nd Jul 2015
    4:01pm
    Pate, Joe Hockey didn't take any money from the American Mr Murdoch. It was the Fairfax paper he sued. I doubt if Mr Murdoch would allow his serfs to write anything not complimentary about his Liberal Party mates. What I wonder is who paid for his legal representation, him or us, the taxpayer.
    .
    Sceptic
    2nd Jul 2015
    6:45pm
    I think that the argument was the headline, the poster and against spurious defence of the e-mails. On-Line there are 38,000 subscribers but only 700 read more than the headline. Bebby, very selective aren't we. Mr Murdoch has tweeted anti Abbot comments in the past 12 months.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:32pm
    geomac: I am willing to bet that Hockey goes for costs. His.

    Sceptic: my recollection is that Murdoch made no accusations of corruption in his tweets. Given that Murdoch backed Abbott and his band of cutthroats and that Murdoch was protecting his Foxtel business from a loss with the coming of the NBN I am of the opinion that where there is smoke there is fire. But don't expect the media to report this.
    dougie
    2nd Jul 2015
    4:33pm
    And so, how many of the people who have written here today know someone who is abusing the system? How many of these people have informed Centrelink of this rorting? If not, why not?
    Do not blame the system if you are not prepared to dob in a bludger on society.

    These people who rort the system are the barnacles on the backside of our countries prosperity. Do your bit and instead of just complaining to sites like this dob them in. This is not anti Australian but anti bludgers.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:12pm
    Respectfully dougie....our authorities refuse to act. The better career path.
    Crazy Horse
    2nd Jul 2015
    9:45pm
    I'll dob in a bludger on society. His name is Joe Hockey and he charges the Government something like $269 a night to sleep in his wife's house. If someone on Centrelink benefits tried that tney'd be arrested.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    10:50am
    Sack the bastard. Oh...that is coming shortly anyway.
    Abby
    4th Jul 2015
    8:14am
    Unfortunately the Politicians make laws in their favour
    Nothing illegal as to what Hockey is doing ... actually most of the other Politicians are on the same perks.
    Adrianus
    4th Jul 2015
    8:34am
    I dobbed in a bludger last year for not paying GST, but I don't feel good about it.
    Sen.Cit.90
    2nd Jul 2015
    4:59pm
    Mick,
    I often read your comments; one you usually spout is to 'vote Independent' OK as long as we don't end up with a 'Committee'.
    My question to you is; will you please look-up How Switzerland Governs and give your opinion. It reads good to me.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:42pm
    Whilst obviously not perfect Switzerland seems to have hit the sweet spot from what I can see.
    Does Switzerland get involved in wars? Is it run by big business or unions? Is the country running well? Tells a story.
    Thanks Sen.Cit.84. Don't know if you support such a system or not but sounds like the right way to control the vested interests which have all but destroyed every country where politics uses their model.
    Hillbillypete
    2nd Jul 2015
    6:32pm
    WHAT A LOT OFF RUBBISH! do they really care? I have tried to contact them on there FRAUD line to tell them something they would love to hear but over 2 days NO answer or call back, maybe this is why they get ripped off!
    Crazy Horse
    2nd Jul 2015
    9:52pm
    Open your eyes. Just walk into any Centrelink Office and see all the empty desks. They don't have any staff to answer the phone let alone take action on anything. Abbott sacked them just like he sacked 3000 Tax Office staff whose job it was to track down the tax avoiders.
    Abby
    4th Jul 2015
    8:16am
    More staff does not make an organization more efficient or do more work.
    Adrianus
    4th Jul 2015
    8:40am
    They didn't answer the phone when they were there, so what's the point in having a busy looking desk? Is it so we can pay higher taxes and make the unemployment figure look low?
    Nan Norma
    2nd Jul 2015
    7:23pm
    I have come to one conclusion: People from all walks of life defraud the system. Welfare recipients are at the lowest end. You have the directors who are paid millions of dollars even when the company is going broke. Then the politicians that are paid huge sums of money but claim all the perks they can from the tax payer. Then there are the white collar workers, accountants, lawyers, dentists and specialists that charge the utmost absurd fees. Even the shoddy trades people are in foe their cut. It’s become a national pastime.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:44pm
    So why do we have laws if laws are ignored? Why bother?
    particolor
    3rd Jul 2015
    11:01am
    Well there only one thing left to do ! We will have to Put up our Pension Prices to Compensate !! :-)
    particolor
    3rd Jul 2015
    11:05am
    PS .. Kelly aint Dead ! :-)
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    7:37pm
    Sounds very emotive, these responses. If we are discussing the same woman - she has five kids and one is disabled. Now I'm not interested in judging her situation and how she came to be there - but it seems to me that is is nigh impossible to hold a job that would return enough to get by on. Once her youngest is over a certain age, Julia made sure she will drop to Newstart, and be forced to chase non-existent jobs.

    All the social engineering of the past forty years or so has left this country with massive problems.
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    7:46pm
    I agree Trebor. It would be nigh on impossible for a woman to earn enough on her own to raise 5 kids unless she's a professional. Even then, women earn less than men. I wonder where the father of these kids is, and whether he's contributing. It's always the woman who takes the brunt of people's anger. The father is nicely and comfortably anonymous.
    Jen
    2nd Jul 2015
    7:47pm
    Plus, I'd like to see Tony Abbott try to hold down a job and at the same time, raise 5 kids on his own as well. (I'm presuming the woman we are talking about is a single mother.)
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:48pm
    The point being made was that people should be contributing something, not bludging for a lifetime. And then there was the smirk on the woman's face laughing at the rest of society for putting up with her and others just like her.
    The story was a beat-up but it clearly hit a note in many of us who have worked hard for decades to make a future.
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:22pm
    I sort of noticed the 'smirk' - but rather than immediately putting it as such, I considered that it might simply be the way she is. I cannot see that anyone in that situation would seriously discuss it in a gloating manner, and she was actually quite bright in her speech etc.

    I'd say it's just her manner, and ACA chose her for that so as to give the audience something to chew on....
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:24pm
    .. either that or as someone suggested - she's a plant. I mean - we've all seen the stories of the bloke on the truck with a broke back etc.. still gets his benefits though....

    Dorothy Dixers anyone?
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    10:56am
    I got the feeling that the woman was just arrogant, in your face and putting it up to all of us. It reminded me of an interview with another woman a couple of years back where the woman had gotten herself into a rental property and then refused to pay rent or leave citing in front of the cameras with a great big smile "protected tenant" as she used a legal loophole to stay put at the poor landlord's expense.
    Just like the case above the woman in the story was just a low life exploiting a weak system. Hopefully after the next election the hammer will come down on those who exploit a weal system to retain a way of life which has nothing to do with a social safety net. But as they say....pigs will fly so I await to see if the next government will actually do something other than avoid properly dealing with the growing problem of social security fraud by many of us.
    Abby
    4th Jul 2015
    8:22am
    Jen
    There are 3 fathers to this 5 children .... what happened to where the father had to pay for the children's upkeep ? Why does the Taxpayer have to ???
    Jen
    4th Jul 2015
    10:23am
    I didn't see it but it sounds right up ACA's alley. I haven't watched ACA in well, since it started. ACA is not alone in cheap shot, sensationalist crap tv to feed the irritations of the unthinking masses.
    Peterrj
    2nd Jul 2015
    8:56pm
    'It is hoped that the new fraud detection capabilities will strengthen the integrity of Australia’s welfare system to make it more sustainable and provide better support for those who need it most.' So who are these cheats'??? Mainly those who can't make ends meet and bludge unlawfully on the public purse. If caught they are prosecuted and have a criminal history. Before being caught they found it all but impossible to find a job to support themselves, hence their need to commit fraud on the Commonwealth and now, having been found guilty of dishonesty/fraud who in their right mind would employ these criminals??? With their background and now with such a conviction they become totally unemployable and economically destitute. Now go back to the original reason why they are prosecuted, "... provide better support for those who need it most'. Pray tell, who needs (no not deserves) who needs welfare more than these unemployable criminals??? I'm no 'do gooder' but what do with this class of convicted welfare fraudisters who are starving and on the street with no hope of finding lawful employment??? Give them welfare 'as they need it the most'??? No I Don't know the answer to this vexing issue.
    MICK
    2nd Jul 2015
    9:53pm
    Respectfully Peterrj I do not think that the main problem is fraud but rather what to do with people who are bludging. Nobody in the Centrelink organisation seems to have the stomach to go after deadbeats and they choose advancement ahead of fair action. So we all pay for more people than some of us suggest to sit at home, smoke, drink, gamble and complain about 'not enough money' whilst refusing to work because they have made a lifestyle choice which they are perfectly entitled to make.
    Now I am worried........starting to sound like a politician........next I'll be smoking cigars, claiming a living away from home allowance whilst renting out my apartment to my mates and suing anybody who publishes the truth about me. Yikes!
    Not Senile Yet!
    2nd Jul 2015
    10:43pm
    Listen up ALL of you who believe what the current affair shows present......they pay the actors.......and pay them well!!!!
    They are Commercial.....to be so one has to attract attention.....ie grab the headlines!!!
    Do you think they are choosy Politically? Do you think they really care??? Do you not understand that they edit OUT anything that THEY decide will not enhance their Headline????
    These show have the credibility of the very people that they attack......and Mick......yes you Mick.......so disappointed in your Point of View on the subject!!!!
    Most people on the Dole/Unemployment......simply cannot get a job because there are only 20 available for 200 that want one in their locality.....yeah yeah....move you say!!!
    Fine if you have no roots.....but not always possible if you have and the unemployment rate has caused your Real Estate Value to nosedive below what you owe or bought it for!!!!
    Yeah Yeah.....Sell it and wear the loss...I hear!!!!
    Forget about the Strugglers who cannot afford to buy a house or cannot achieve education beyond HSC level...it's their own FAULT!!!
    This Government has a 1980's style of Penalty....Penalty....and if that don't work we will cut them off!!!!!
    It didn't work then and it won't work now....Governments need to get up to date and understand just one thing.....people will work if the rewards are there to do so.....if they are rewarded for doing so!!!
    At the present time...when the Dole is below poverty level income....yet it is an attraction for the simple minded rather than the hassle of employment.....it is a statement about how the Government has allowed the basic wage to become useless due to the continued inflation of most services at a rate well above the CPI for over 20yrs whilst the wage rises has been below CPI!!!!
    No economy can sustain the inequity without it causing the growth of GAP between the HAVES and the NOT HAVES in terms of basic access to basic needs!!!!
    Allowing importation form outside a country WITHOUT Protection Tarriff's to protect employment and employers from Dumping and unfair competition is a RECIPE for Self-destruction!!!!
    As for those unfortunates who do have a bad attitude.....they are a minimum........ not the numbers exaggerated by TV show and Politicians.....and are constantly changing in composition as some grow out of it and others replace them!!!!
    But let's be fair here.....has anyone ever employed some of these negative people in an effort to give them a go......only to find them un-employable because of their bad attitude.....so bad that it disrupts production and causes all sorts of dramas!!!!
    I have experienced it......one bad apple....can ruin the whole team cohesion.....can destroy a happy work environment!!!!!
    It is ignorance on any Government's part.....to believe that they can make Humans SUBMIT by Punishment alone!!!!!
    They need to encourage, to reward and to enhance opportunities rather that attack, beat and blame!!!!
    Social Security.....has been re- labelled and remarketed......into WELFARE Recipients or Leaner's!!!!
    Gross Negative Propaganda!!!!
    The truth is that the Government has not invested into the Department of Human Service......the Technology .... nor increased the number of employees to minimise any Fraud!!!!
    Instead mort Governments over the last 15 yrs have cut staff levels as has the Current Party Machine!!!
    As for the Dishonesty of the recipients....I would remind the Current Prime Minister......about his pre-election promises......which have turned into lies....and remind him & his Party of the saying......Lead by example!!!!!!
    TREBOR
    2nd Jul 2015
    11:28pm
    Ummm.. NSY - I've been caught up in a Today Tonight thing, ambush interview trying to get an angry response, sneaky cameras purporting to show stuff but showing nothing, interviews with experts who say nothing and name nobody, and so forth. And I'm no paid actor.

    When offered documentation that refuted their story, they didn't even answer two phone calls, an email and a letter.

    These people are liars through and through.. and any time they wish to confront me over that state.. let the games begin. What I do know is that it will cost them heaps to chase it - I'll defend myself and cost myself nothing, and they will get nothing...

    You hear that Today Tonight? YOU ARE LIARS! Wanna play out in the open?

    Anyway - these shows are utter rubbish and not worth the paper they aren't written on...
    Jen
    3rd Jul 2015
    8:18am
    Well said, NSF. You are absolutely right, but you won't change the minds of those who want to be sucked in by mass media crap. They don't want facts, they want sensation!

    I'm starting to think that if they come across someone they can hate, it makes they, themselves feel better. And this is exactly how this loathsome government works. The one thing I give them credit for, they're well aware of this and are playing it to their advantage. Hence, we are now a nation of haters.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    11:04am
    I have to disagree with you here Jen. Respectfully when you have 800 000 on a disability pension then something is broken. Sure the media picks extremes, but this is to make a point.
    What needs fixing is the sell off mentality which has been seeing manufacturing close down in this country and Australian jobs heading offshore so that there are actually jobs available for people to do. But there does need to be a fix for those of us who have the expectation that they should be kept for a lifetime and never work and those who make up excuses to justify their plight. There is no one size fits all and there are many different stories out there but ALL Australians need to make a contribution to the nation, not just consume. I have always supported a work for the dole program but this has failed in the past because gutless governments have looked at the electoral backlash from people who they will offend rather than the good of the country we all live in. I hope that this is an issue where a bilateral agreement can be made. We need it before we go broke not after.
    Adrianus
    3rd Jul 2015
    6:41pm
    Not, I have to agree with your view on current affairs programs after being involved in one myself I can tell you from first hand experience. All is not what it seems. I will say no more.
    Those like mick who believe the media spin are looking but not seeing.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    8:54pm
    I understand how the media works. The last federal election campaign was a story in itself. I wondered as this propaganda campaign unfolded where the regulators were. Apparently not applicable where ex Australian Rupert Murdoch and his self interest media outlets were concerned.
    Yes Frank......I do understand the media model. This is what happens when you let big business own the game.
    MsWoody
    3rd Jul 2015
    4:42am
    Just sick of so much money going out to welfare. Lots are double dipping. Finger printing should be bought in for any one receiving any sort of benefit. Every person collecting a benefit or payment of any sort from the government, should have to re register and supply a fingerprint. Then we will see how many are double dipping.
    Jen
    3rd Jul 2015
    6:08pm
    We can start with the politicians, the miners and the CEOs. We could pay off our debt!
    Adrianus
    3rd Jul 2015
    2:38pm
    When I was a kid I worked before and after school and I worked for commission only. I sold newspapers and became very good at it. In a good week I earned 4 and a half quid.
    I learned a lot from selling newspapers. I also had a job after school at Coles packing behind the check out chick. I learned a lot from that job also.
    The reason I say this is because businesses don't employ kids anymore. Why?
    Well for a start employers need to pay a minimum of 4 hours and where are the kids who want to work 4 hours after school? Where are the employers who want to give a kid 4 hours pay for working 1 hour?
    It's not just the kids who are missing out, we are all missing out. Could this be one of the reasons why we have high youth unemployment?
    The valuable lessons learned from searching for a job, developing an on the job work ethic and reward for effort are difficult to learn without practical experience.
    Let's not blame the young for the mistakes of our generation.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    3:57pm
    So now we have adults working 4 hour shifts so the big boys can get out of paying a full time wage, along with all the other add-ons which we all expect. This is what John Howard called Work "Choices" I believe. And you want this to be the norm Frank.
    If you want to see kids in work then buy a hamburger.

    3rd Jul 2015
    4:43pm
    Won't worry me at all and I am sure all those who have done nothing wrong will not have a worry either.

    Cannot say the same for those who have been rorting; hope they have the full weight of the law come down on them if they have been defrauding the taxpayers of this country
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    5:40pm
    You should understand by now Radish that it mostly seems to be the wicked who inherit the earth. Honest, average citizens always get caught holding the bag and it is they who get hit with more taxes to pay for the theft by the few. You only have to look at the current Greek tragedy playing out at the moment. Huge sums of money (the rich) withdrew their money from Greek banks and took it overseas to safer havens in full sight of government: partners in crime! And now average citizens who did not rort the system or defraud taxpayers are limited to 60 Euros a day. Get the picture. It never much changes other than the country and the situation.
    So I have to respectfully disagree.....the crooks are rarely called to account as they are mostly off enjoying the loot. SO IN WHOSE INTERESTS DOES THE LAW AND THE BROKEN JUDICIAL SYSTEM WORK?
    Anonymous
    3rd Jul 2015
    6:15pm
    With respect Mick :)...the post is about "welfare fraud". I was just keeping to the topic.
    Adrianus
    3rd Jul 2015
    6:23pm
    mick, you really need to get over your hatred and jealousy of the rich. Can you really blame the 10,000 Australians who saw the writing on the wall and cashed in their chips to return to Melbourne? Nobody likes austerity but it generally follows waste on the economic clock.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    9:06pm
    The rich as a cohort is a self interest group which believes that just because they are wealthy they own everything and can behave as they like. This includes short circuiting democracy and getting their own puppet self interest governments elected...which then do as they are instructed. The script is the script.
    I'll have sympathy with the rich the day they pay their fair share of taxes, stop scheming to take as much money as they can from struggling citizens to sustain their opulent lifestyles and help the country rather than just themselves.
    Hate the rich? No Frank. Its just that the way most rich people abuse the rest of society irks me. No morals. No character. A sickness. I almost feel sorry for this group....if it were not inflicting so much pain on the weak and defenseless. Have a look in the mirror............

    3rd Jul 2015
    5:44pm
    Well said!
    Of course the big end should help support. However we know there is welfare fraud
    Hit the multinationals fraud first ....
    counting pennies
    3rd Jul 2015
    7:50pm
    Someone way back said where is the proof that welfare is unsustainable.the thing that come to mind for me is the changing of the retirement age and eligibility.I am 54, am entitled to a pension at 67,after 48 years,with 5 off after the birth of my sons.Why has it been changed? Because the government cant SUSTAIN the current pension limits.However those already on a pension,of one form or another, have no such limitation.I work in the retail industry,where just last week I served a man on ICE,who I know had far more in his wallet than his pension entitlement.He assaulted someone.the 4th assault he had done in 48hours,just metres from me.He accused me of stealing from him,then anyone else going past.A few days later,a woman with $300 of goods she attempted to steal,told me she had a gun,and would I like to see it.She was NOT on drugs,just helping herself.Were they on welfare? I saw their pension cards.And I am at work til 60,where I can access my savings,read super,until i am 67.And pension age.In the meantime,unless I change jobs which at my age isnt easy,I am compelled to serve those who believe their choice of lifestyle is is an entitlement.
    MICK
    3rd Jul 2015
    9:17pm
    The system we live in relies on 'competition' as this drives down costs and spurs on innovation. The trouble is that this pits man against man and country against country in an ever tougher spiral of one trying to put the other out of business. Dog eat dog really.
    So in the end you get the 2 extremes: the rich end with all the spoils and everybody else with little.
    Make no mistake that this government is indeed involved in class warfare. Expect much worse than the last 2 years if the public is dumb enough to be conned again by the Murdoch Press and its propaganda campaign.
    Ultimately remember: "mistaken once, silly me. Mistaken twice, poor poor pitiful me". We'll see I guess.
    counting pennies
    3rd Jul 2015
    7:59pm
    first ....
    counting pennies
    3rd Jul 2015
    7:50pm
    remove
    Someone way back said where is the proof that welfare is unsustainable.the thing that come to mind for me is the changing of the retirement age and eligibility.I am 54, am entitled to a pension at 67,after 48 years,with 5 off after the birth of my sons.Why has it been changed? Because the government cant SUSTAIN the current pension limits.However those already on a pension,of one form or another, have no such limitation.I work in the retail industry,where just last week I served a man on ICE,who I know had far more in his wallet than his pension entitlement.He assaulted someone.the 4th assault he had done in 48hours,just metres from me.He accused me of stealing from him,then anyone else going past.A few days later,a woman with $300 of goods she attempted to steal,told me she had a gun,and would I like to see it.She was NOT on drugs,just helping herself.Were they on welfare? I saw their pension cards.And I am at work til 60,where I can access my savings,read super,until i am 67.And pension age.In the meantime,unless I change jobs which at my age isnt easy,I am compelled to serve those who believe their choice of lifestyle is is an entitlement.
    Jen
    4th Jul 2015
    8:14am
    What really makes me mad is that our country NEED NOT be in this position. Read this: "In less than two years in office, the Abbott government has added almost $100bn to the level of Commonwealth government debt.

    The bigger influence on the debt blowout is, as the budget papers highlight, a surge in government spending. Policy changes after the election of the Abbott government have seen government spending rise 7.8%.

    In the last full year of the previous government, 2012-13, real government spending fell 3.2% to 24.1% of GDP.

    Had the Abbott government simply held government spending to the 2012-13 level, the budget was poised to return to surplus in 2016-17 and government debt would be approximately $45bn lower than it is today. " From Australian Independent Media.
    Adrianus
    4th Jul 2015
    8:30am
    Do you think the Abbott government was wrong to scrap the carbon tax and leave pensioners with the carbon tax compensation?
    Jen
    4th Jul 2015
    8:37am
    Frank, there's not one single thing this government has done that I've agreed with. Not one. And the changes have been coming daily. And with a complicit Labor, our chances of becoming the Australia we were, ever again, are getting slimmer by the day. No comment from you about this government's wrecker ball spending? And how we could have been returned to surplus by 2016-17 if this government had kept to the same level of spending of the Labor party in its last year of government?
    Adrianus
    4th Jul 2015
    9:28am
    Jen, not one thing? You are really hard to please then. The increases in spending are Labor's handy work so save your "wrecker ball" comment for the Unions. Unsustainable increased spending on Education and Health especially, with yearly increases, were locked in prior to the last election.
    Of the 17 top surveyed IMF countries, Labor left us with the fastest growth in spending of any country in the world. Check with your ABC fact Checker.
    This spending is unable to be changed without senate support.
    You see, this is the sort of childish behaviour we got from the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government.
    Shorten and his crew of misfits were brazenly defiant in the lead up to Abbott's election victory, saying they have locked in spending and there's not a dam thing Abbott can do. Abbott responded with "what the government can do it can undo." But in saying that I don't think he realised how hostile the Senate would be. You just cannot factor in the logic of the Palmer's, Lambie's etc.
    80% of government spending is only able to be changed with Senate support, and this is why the Abbott government have had to find cuts in other areas more acceptable to the Senate. It's a very childish act to push your mate under a bus then blame him for jumping under the bus.
    Abby
    4th Jul 2015
    9:54am
    Yes I agree with you Jen

    The Government should have cancelled all the Labor future spending policies and stopped paying interest on the borrowed money and then they would not have to harass welfare cheats.

    We have no need for the boats and planes that Labor ordered let alone ordering more.
    Both Labor and Liberal are steering us towards a World Government.
    Jen
    4th Jul 2015
    10:20am
    The government did cancel Labor future spending e.g. on Gonski, health etc. You know, things that would have made Australia great. Yet this Government have still become the biggest spenders since the Howard regime. It's all about war, fear and greed with this Government, not investment in a great Australia for all Australians. Backwards policies that take us back to the fifties, while Abbott grandstands in his latest leather pilot's outfit, poncing about like a gorilla and the rest of us cringe and laugh.
    geomac
    4th Jul 2015
    1:29pm
    I am still waiting for a drop in my utility bills while paying more. Yeah dropping the carbon tax really made a difference. A difference in cost to the budget and to increased carbon emissions by power companies. The magic pudding that Abbott spruiked was never going to fly because no matter what 2 plus 2 equals 4. Removing revenue measures while providing largesse to the well off was always going to mean increased debt. Coming down hard on the less well off was only tweaking at the edges and massive cuts to health and education will leave the states holding the bag while hamstrung on revenue sources. I expect a twenty flag announcement shortly to bolster the coalition in the polls. Heaven knows the announcement wont be about the economy though.
    Jen
    4th Jul 2015
    2:00pm
    Tony Abbott tells us that for women, the greatest thing he's achieved as Minister for Women is abolishing the carbon tax.

    You have to laugh or you'll cry.
    Jen
    4th Jul 2015
    2:00pm
    Tony Abbott tells us that for women, the greatest thing he's achieved as Minister for Women is abolishing the carbon tax.

    You have to laugh or you'll cry.
    Pass the Ductape
    4th Jul 2015
    5:14am
    Deter and punish 'suspected' welfare cheats? Then imagine what will happen to those who are actually found to be guilty?
    Not Senile Yet!
    4th Jul 2015
    2:49pm
    What is the difference between a Welfare Cheat and a duly elected Party Puppet MP?
    The amount of money they defraud from the Taxpayer by telling lies!
    The Welfare Cheat gets peanuts for lying and being checked on or made accountable for every cent!!!
    The Party Puppet MP simply does what he is told by the Party...then collects a Pension for life with NO tax payable!!!!
    WHO is actually cheating on the Tax System?????
    particolor
    9th Jul 2015
    9:29am
    It will be looked into in the fullness of time !
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    9:56am
    I give up...Both?
    Young Simmo
    4th Jul 2015
    4:31pm
    Well if they can wipe out all the Dole Cheats and Centrelink robbers there might be enough money left over for the Gov't to increase my pension from $1,150 to $1,250 per week.
    At $2,500 per fortnight, I might be able to make some progress, especially if my wife gets the same pension increase.
    Maybe even some MacDonald's, to make my tummy bigger.
    geomac
    4th Jul 2015
    8:39pm
    You must be on an MPs pension Simmo
    particolor
    5th Jul 2015
    1:37pm
    Simmo has Toasted Cheese and Onion Sandwiches before bed !! Hence the wonderful Drams ! :-)
    particolor
    5th Jul 2015
    1:39pm
    DREAMS !! :-)
    I wish I could afford a New Keyboard ! :-(
    Young Simmo
    6th Jul 2015
    3:45pm
    Give you a tip parti, don't buy one of those so called easy to read keyboards with yellow keys. The numbers and letters wear away fairly quick and you need a black felt pen handy. I went through the exercise twice before the penny dropped.
    particolor
    7th Jul 2015
    5:56pm
    I have to guess where UEIO and H are ?? :-) .. Problem Solved I bought a New One :-)
    geomac
    5th Jul 2015
    2:16pm
    A federal Coalition MP charged taxpayers to attend last year's Bledisloe Cup, listing the Brisbane game as a "sitting of Parliament" on his expenses claim.

    Queensland Liberal National MP Ken O'Dowd also charged the cost of bringing a family member to the final match of the annual Australia versus New Zealand rugby series.

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/coalition-mp-ken-odowd-claimed-public-money-to-attend-the-rugby-20150705-gi48kg
    Jen
    6th Jul 2015
    8:21am
    Yes, I saw that, and was strangely unmoved. Just more of the same old, same old. Just the same entitled leaners enjoying their extravagant lifestyles courtesy of the workers of Australia.
    Adrianus
    6th Jul 2015
    8:51am
    geo, you need to understand that politicians are not elected because they are pillars of the community. Hell, some of them are in gaol. I'm just happy to know that we have an auditor to pick up these irregularities in expenses claims.
    I was also pleased to learn that many of those politicians who attended charity functions didn't claim travel allowance. Of course no so pleased that some did.
    I can remember in my younger days getting paid to attend a football match. I didn't see it as fraud because my boss ordered me to go. But these are different circumstances. Seems like someone was playing hookie and should have been sitting in parliament?
    geomac
    6th Jul 2015
    11:36am
    Frank who is the politician in jail ? They re not irregularities they are rorts
    geomac
    6th Jul 2015
    11:38am
    Actually it is a case of malfeasance, plain and simple.
    Adrianus
    6th Jul 2015
    3:25pm
    geo, I don't want to shame them by listing them all but you can be certain there is many more than one.
    geomac
    6th Jul 2015
    4:36pm
    Frank It would have been made public. Some of them are in goal was your comment which is the present tense so who are they ? Nobody comes to mind in the federal sphere. None I can think of in the state area either but I would be mostly unaware of any state besides Victoria.
    geomac
    6th Jul 2015
    4:49pm
    he government appointed Tim Wilson to the role of Human Rights Commissioner shortly after the 2013 election, drafting him from the Institute of Public Affairs, a right-wing think tank.

    In the 12 months after he took up the position in February 2014, the former Liberal Party member charged taxpayers $77,763 for expenses. These were in addition to his $332,000 salary package and $40,000 accommodation allowance.
    Illustration: Matt Golding.

    Illustration: Matt Golding.

    He spent $14,562 on cab fares, including almost $3000 for family reunion travel for his partner, according to a departmental response to a Labor question on notice.
    Advertisement

    Mr Wilson also claimed for an iPhone, an iPad, a laptop and a $1400 standing desk.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbotts-human-rights-man-tim-wilson-racks-up-77000-in-expenses-20150704-gi46m3.html
    doclisa
    7th Jul 2015
    12:59am
    really...welfare is not a big problem in a country such as ours. Our biggest problem is rich people and wealthy corporations who pay no tax.
    if they spent as much money and time getting the money that we should be getting paid into our coffers then this small fry stuff would not worry us.
    This is the kind of thing that just has poor people chasing poor people. Get the rich bastards first please.
    particolor
    7th Jul 2015
    5:59pm
    This will not be happening Real Soon !
    TAX OFFICE CAT .... :-) < Cheesy Grin !