Shorten faces Royal Commission

Bill Shorten has come under fire for an undisclosed $40,000 campaign donation.

Shorten faces Royal Commission

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten was grilled by the Trade Union Royal Commission yesterday over an undisclosed campaign donation of $40,000 made by labour hire firm Unibuilt.

Unibuilt paid the wages of his then campaign director, Lance Wilson, who was managing Mr Shorten’s campaign for the seat of Maribyrnong in 2007. The $40,000 donation had only been declared to the Australian Electoral Commission on 6 July 2015. The Australian Workers Union (AWU) also allegedly topped up the campaign manager’s total wage of $52,000. Mr Shorten served as AWU state secretary from July 1998 and as federal secretary from July 2001.

The Opposition Leader has been under intense scrutiny over why the transaction was not disclosed earlier.

“I have discovered in very recent times that there was an incomplete form sent to the ALP head office and that is — I take ultimate responsibility for that,” said Mr Shorten.

Mr Shorten said he declared the donation in preparation for his Royal Commission appearance. He discovered the omission and, once his legal team had all the relevant details of the transaction, declared it to the appropriate parties.

Mr Shorten denied that he was waiting to see if the issue would be raised in the Royal Commission and said he only found out about the oversight a few weeks ago. He also denied any personal advantage in the AWU deal and believed that Unibuilt would not have expected anything in return for contributing towards Mr Wilson’s services to his campaign.

According to former Victorian Electrical Trades Union (VETU) Secretary Dean Mighell, the Royal Commission found no evidence that the donation was deliberately concealed.

“If you’re going to take Bill Shorten out for a reporting irregularity — which isn’t at the end of the day a serious crime — you’re going to have to take out half of Parliament,” said Mr Mighell.

The Opposition Leader will face the Royal Commission about this issue again this morning.

What do you think? Should political campaign donations face tougher regulations? Do you feel comfortable that unions and corporations are generally the largest contributors to political campaigns? Do you worry that, because of such donations, the interests of these organisations are taking priority over those of the people? Is this Royal Commission worth the $61 million of taxpayer's money the Abbott Government is spending?

Read more at www.abc.net.au

Read more at www.theage.com.au





    COMMENTS

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    9th Jul 2015
    10:43am
    Well Bill Shorten trying to rig the members numbers in the A.W.U. is there anyone without there noses in the trough.Gillard certainly did and she was made Prime minister and then there was a bloke named Craig Thompson and now Kathy Jackson who has gone Bankrupt so as she won"t have to pay the union back she transferred her property to her boyfriend who is another union hack.
    Of course there is also the president of the ALP who is doing 7 years in the clink for pinching the unions money.

    People vote for this party you would have to be a complete idiot if you did, or like being ripped off or have a very low I.Q.
    Anonymous
    9th Jul 2015
    11:00am
    You don't think the Coalition are ripping you off? Of course not.....Murdoch, the Mafia and the likes of Gina Rinehart have convinced you that.....ha ha ha

    A Royal Commission into the Coalition will dig up a hell of a lot more than Shorten's closet.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    11:09am
    Oh roll on a royal commission into the Coalition. I won't mind funding that one. They'll have a field day. Meantime, Abbott will continue to throw everything they've got at Labor, whilst paying people smugglers, taking money from the Mafia, and perhaps, a zillion other transgressions. They're all hard at work pulling the wool over voters' eyes, and it's working with some!
    Stoker
    9th Jul 2015
    11:47am
    Hi Jackie, if the info I get from my Sister and B-I-L is any info the history of Shorten up around Karatha/Wickham is any indication there is much more to come out.
    Anonymous
    9th Jul 2015
    12:31pm
    Hawke has just given the show away. Yes there is too much corruption in Australian politics especially amongst those that keep pointing the finger elsewhere. They have too much to hide.
    Annamaria
    9th Jul 2015
    2:45pm
    I couldn't agree more, robbo
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    3:34pm
    Lets have a bit of honesty in this debate. Why is it that every election there is a Royal Commission into unions? Never a Royal Commission into what the pay-off is for big business when the Liberal side of politics takes office.
    I don't mind a Royal Commission but I'd like it to include the relationship between the current government and big business and why it appears that this government has paid off big time: The Carbon Tax (election funding?). The Mining industry (election funding?), the Banking Industry (election funding?) and so the list goes on.
    And on the matter of Gillard.....was she not cleared of all wrong doing???? But lets not stop a good smear campaign by the Party which instigates Royal Commission in the lead up to every federal election.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    3:39pm
    robbo: thanks for the political advertisement. Compliments to your crooked boss.
    You might mention that union corruption is a drop in the bucket when you look at the widespread big business corruption accommodated by the Liberal side of politics. Kind of makes anything from the unions look like a minor issue....not that it ever should be.
    Still waiting for Tony Abbott to be grilled about HIS travel rorts. Conveniently pushed under the carpet.
    Vote for this government? You must be kidding!! If anything vote for neither and pick the best INDEPENDENT around...but make sure their preference does not go to this most disreputable of all governments.
    particolor
    10th Jul 2015
    2:05pm
    " Who's Sorry Now "
    Conny Francis .. I thought this was a good selection for this subject ?
    Find it on You/Tube :-) :-)
    Sceptic
    10th Jul 2015
    3:14pm
    So mick, every election there is a Royal Commission into unions is there. I only remember two (no not two elections). The one into the very corrupt and vicious BLF and this one. The BLF offshoot, CMFEU has carried on where the BLF left off. But then apparently you support that sort of behaviour and just trot out your spurious accusations without ever presenting a shred of proof.

    The point seems to be missed, it is not the minor forgetting about political donations, it is the conflict of interest issue that is the major problem.
    MICK
    10th Jul 2015
    3:25pm
    Sceptic: good try mate. My recollection:

    1. RC re pink batts deaths - Kevin Rudd
    2. RC union bribes allegations - Julia Gillard
    3. RC union bribes allegations - Bill Shorten

    Short memory methinks Sceptic....or is it Frank?
    The reality is that:

    1. EMPLOYERS are responsible for workplace safety....NOT GOVERNMENTS trying to keep the nation working and stuck having to make a call!!
    2. Gillard was shown to have NO CASE TO ANSWER.
    3. Shorten - yet to be seen but given the previous two expensive LNP smear campaigns one can only think that the result will be the same.
    It is a national disgrace that Abbott and his cronies are permitted to run witch hunts to help their election chances. Does the country not have other problems.
    Sceptic
    10th Jul 2015
    3:54pm
    mick you forgot the BLF one? I forgot the pink bats deaths one, and numbers 2 and 3 are the same RC, the present one.
    Stretch
    9th Jul 2015
    10:44am
    Having undeclared donations to political parties happens all the time. The Queensland liberal party recently had millions of dollars they 'forgot' to declare. The difference with this just-declared donation from the AWU is that it was found out under the umbrella of the enquiry into corruption in Trade Unions. It therefore takes on the appearance of being a corrupt act, when in fact it is not corruption by definition.
    If there'd been a Royal Commission in to dealings including donations accepted by the Coalition then there would be the same tarnishing of what is a common practice.
    The acceptance of donations is problematic. A large mining company donating to a political party may well be buying change in legislation, such as the abolishing of the carbon tax thus increasing the profits of that company.
    If all political parties were unable to accept any donations from anyone then something else needs to be put in to place to ensure the working of the democratic processes. Democracy includes the right of the electorate to know what a political party stands for and before they are elected. An informed electorate is preferred over an ignorant or misled electorate. How would candidates or parties make themselves known to the populace? Not easy - money is needed - but where from and how to stop the candidate being comprised by the acceptance of a donation? A tax-payer funded amount instead? Individual donations only with a limit of one per person per election cycle?
    Anonymous
    9th Jul 2015
    11:03am
    All political parties should not be accepting donations. Australian tax payers pay them high salaries and perks to fund their own parties.
    mangomick
    9th Jul 2015
    5:20pm
    Stretch you can stick your tax payer funded "levy" where Senator Lazarus is threatening to stick his finger. Let budding politicians get back to grass roots and start door knocking to introduce themselves and their policies to the people and let them get back to standing on street corners and addressing all and sundry and answering questions put to them so all can hear. We need to place a limit on donations per person with a dollar limit capped, no more than $2000 might be o.k, but then you would probably have businesses and unions putting in on behalf of their whole workforce or membership . Would be better if all parties had to have audited books and all donors and the amount given and expenditures by the Party was transparent for all to see.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    7:44pm
    No political donations from vested interests should be permitted. Neither side will vote for this. Both are corrupt.
    Tom Tank
    9th Jul 2015
    11:03am
    Given that there have been significant donations by mining companies and organised crime to the Liberal Party it does raise the issue of just what is going on? Who is beholden to who?
    It would be much more to the point to have a Royal Commission into political donations and get it all out into the open.
    Will that ever happen? Excuse me a second I must look at that formation of pigs that just flew overhead.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    7:55pm
    You rarely hear much of anything where the Liberal Party is involved.
    The recent Hockey Defamation case resulted in the judge stating that the reporting of Hockey's meeting with well heeled business interests to procure election funding was correct. My understanding of the meeting is that significant amounts of money were being 'donated' to the Liberal Party by big business interests. It is unlikely that the donations were without strings attached. You don't hear much about this on the main media stations.
    As I said.....outlaw donations. Make it a jailable offence. And nail the bastards if they try it on. Mission accomplished!
    particolor
    10th Jul 2015
    5:29pm
    Every time I see a Politician of any Persuasion making a Speech now I get a Horrible Vision of Les Paterson, appear before my vision !
    wally
    11th Jul 2015
    5:21pm
    Sir Les to you, parti.


    Not only is Sir Les a living, iconick legend of our time, he sets an example that all of our politicians should emulate, but none will ever equal!
    particolor
    12th Jul 2015
    1:00pm
    Its not what Sir Les says but the Vision of Him saying it :-)
    wally
    13th Jul 2015
    12:06pm
    Sir Les is a shining light on the hill and an example for us all. If only he didn't try to talk and chew his food at the same time and spray it all over his gravy coloured necktie!
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    11:06am
    Neither party can take the moral high ground. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/missing-liberal-donations-declared-four-years-later-20140505-zr515.html
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    7:56pm
    Correct. The question we should be asking is WHY do both sides refuse to ban donations?
    surfer
    9th Jul 2015
    11:38am
    Phew, I just hope this is the end for this dishonest swine. He was never PM material to start with. Looks like my garden gnome with a swollen head. Get rid of this trash.
    aly_rob60
    9th Jul 2015
    11:50am
    Too true! Look up what he wants to do with OUR Super! He is nothing but a money grabbing garden gnome......! lol
    Swinging voter
    9th Jul 2015
    11:57am
    Shorten, just like Gillard is being publicly revealed as untrustworthy. He got rid of Rudd then Gillard to "shorten" his own leadership waiting time. First thing Labor should do is try to pick someone without a union thug background and who also knows how to speak correctly. Shorten: wivin (within), furver (further), fret (threat) etc. and Gillard: manafacturing, infastructya, cammunidy, disabilidy, alwis (always), hyper-bowl (hyperbole). These people are embarrassing bogans. When the persons already referred by the Royal Commissioner are eventually charged (Unionists Wilson and Blewitt), the mess will really hit the fan. I don't like any politicians but corruption and union thuggery has been running the ALP since Bob Hawke's departure imo the best PM I've seen. If he had known about the AWU and its slush fund rackets and the way a Mr Kernohan was left waiting for nearly a decade for his entitlements, was bashed to a pulp in the meantime, I bet Haweke would have cleaned them all up. All I've read about Shorten's evidence yesterday and today is blatant obfuscation, deliberate avoidance and padding his long-winded answers to try and snow commissioner Heyden.
    bebby
    9th Jul 2015
    3:38pm
    Surfer, it is not very nice to make such a nasty statement about our handsome budgie smuggler Prime Minister. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    Misty
    9th Jul 2015
    4:47pm
    Surfer I feel the same about my garden gnome only it has big ears.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:01pm
    What a lot of tripe. Gillard was shown to have no case to answer. Shorten is yet to be shown to have a case to answer.
    So what about Joe Hockey meeting his big business mates for donations? What about Tony Abbott's travel rorts? Both were not brought to account. Why?
    I always find it interesting when I read the above one sided swill. Whilst I have no time for either side of politics I am sick and tired of the Royal Commissions which now happen in the lead up to every federal election campaign....ALWAYS directed at the same side of politics.
    Stoker
    9th Jul 2015
    11:41am
    Couple of irate comments so far, but hang on, its currently a RC into the usual corrupt Unions, lets get that over with first then we can have a RC
    into the Coalition Parties, and then another RC into the ALP.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    12:08pm
    While the LNP are in power, there will be no such Royal Commissions. There's no way this Government would get a second term if they had a Royal Commission into the LNP. And if Labor win the next election, there'll still be no Royal Commission into the LNP because Shorten is too weak to pursue the bleeding obvious.
    Anonymous
    9th Jul 2015
    12:36pm
    The Jesuits have infiltrated Australian politics. The Coalition is full of them and yes Shorten is one too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq_5jvxI9mU
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:03pm
    I would love to see a Royal Commission into political donations for all political parties. You'll never get Abbott and his cronies agreeing on that one. If you think the LNP is clean then you obviously think that the pope is not a Catholic.
    Patriot
    10th Jul 2015
    11:37am
    jackie
    They have infiltrated Global Politics also
    I agree, they are a major part of the "Shadow Government".
    aly_rob60
    9th Jul 2015
    11:42am
    I wonder if we "forgot" to declare something. if we would get away with it??? I doubt that very much!

    I have very little faith in any Political party, any Government department.

    Especially after finding out that my Superannuation "guarantee" was not a "guarantee" at all! Five years of chasing up an ex-employer, only to have the ATO tell me that it wasn't worth chasing up the $2750 dollars (plus interest I would have been earning on the money).

    I know that if I owed the ATO even $1, that they would chase me until the end of the bloody earth!!!

    These Royal Commissions and enquiries are another waste of OUR money! Nothing ever comes of it. It's just a witch hunt that peters out and gives journalists something to write about, in the meantime.
    surfer
    9th Jul 2015
    12:02pm
    You are spot on. I am sick of being done like a dinner in our country. The biggest rip off place on the planet. Different rules for different people.
    aly_rob60
    9th Jul 2015
    12:09pm
    Surfer, our country is stuffed. How we can rate high as the "most liveable cities" (Melb and Sydney) has got me completely agitated and confuzzled!

    We can't get jobs, our kids are not going to be able to get jobs, how the hell are they ever going to buy a home?

    We too are sick of being done over and screwed over. Time to bail out of this s**t hole that was once a great place to live!
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:05pm
    aly_rob: I believe that the last 2 Royal Commissions (all against the Labor Party before elections) have cost us $100 million. But this government cares not. All political for their big business owners.
    jackyd
    9th Jul 2015
    11:46am
    Barry O'Farrell resigned over failing to declare a gifted $3000 bottle of wine, so Shorten should de the same if there is any honour about this man at all.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    11:54am
    No Barry denied getting the wine at all during ICAC questioning. He repeated the denial to the media. Barry fell on his sword when the donor shafted him with the revelation that he gave him the wine.
    On your reasoning Abbott should resign over not disclosing his 700,000 loan or the 60 grand gift of a scholarship to his daughter. how about Abbott paying back 10 grand for book promotion travel that he claimed originally as official business ?
    Swinging voter
    9th Jul 2015
    12:30pm
    Non disclosure of a personal mortgage is very different from what has been going on in unions. Repeatedly we are seeing evidence of commandeering workers' and other people's money to fund (unbeknownst to them) personal campaigns for self-advancement into politics and other expensive luxuries. As voters, we gift these people highly paid parliamentary jobs, but workers' money has also been funding campaigns that try to persuade us who to vote for. Workers don't get the option of saying no we don't want our money paying for a campaign for say, Bill Shorten, or any other union candidate of union boss choice. Fat cat union officials are so thick with ALP candidates we the voters are just pawns in their career advancement tactics.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    1:23pm
    My comment was in relation to jackyd. Barry resigned because he denied getting the wine. Shorten did not deny the donation nor was the donation illegal or corrupt.
    Now on to you. Swinging voter ? Seems more like paid up coalition spruiker to me seeing your casual dismissal of all Abbotts rorting. 80 million bucks to smear Labor then add Howards 60 million and thats 140 million and no charges laid. Meanwhile the mafia can donate to the libs to get a crim residence in Austra;lia. Hockey can charge 20 grand to get his ear with the North Shore foundation. abbott can refuse to disclose if he renounced his UK citizenship so even now we do not know if and when he did as required by law. BTW it is also law that Abbott should have updated his parliamentary register regarding his 700,000 loan.
    jackyd
    9th Jul 2015
    1:42pm
    geomac you are full of speculation unlike the royal commission that's continually exposing the witches in this so called witch hunt.
    Try not to be so rusted on.
    Swinging voter
    9th Jul 2015
    1:53pm
    geomac just to make it clear. I already said Bob Hawke was my favourite PM, hardly a paid up coalition spruiker. But that's how one-eyed, biased readers will try to shoot down someone's honest opinion, trying to make them out to be someone they definitely are not. I worked for the AWU for a little while and I can tell you it wasn't a pretty sight. I saw an overpaid bunch of wombles with a manipulative, self-serving modus operandi. One of them hired his wife, paying her a salary almost twice the going rate for the same work in any other industry. It stank to high heaven and the members didn't like it but felt hopeless in the face of so much power. But that's only a small example of how members' money lines the pockets of fat cat union bosses. I don't care how rich and successful hard working people are but taking money from ordinary level workers? What we are seeing with the AWU and other unions is nothing short of stand-over thuggery. There's plenty on the record, google Bob Kernohan bashed and wonder why Shorten didn't ensure that the man was paid his due entitlements for eight years? That's just the thin edge of a very, very big wedge slowly being pulled out from underneath these powerful cronies like Williamson and the former member for Dobell paying for prostitutes from someone else's hard earned money, and all the others too many to name but I'll bet one thing Shorten's career is over. Gillard would be saying, karma Bill, karma. (Not before Rudd said karma, Julia, karma).
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    3:13pm
    jackyd
    Barry denied receiving the wine , fact.Barry resigned because he had denied not only to ICAC but to the media that he had not received the wine, fact. No speculation in any of that. The mafia thing, the north shore thing and the Abbott thing are also all facts. Abbott has refused to answer and provide proof he renounced his UK citizenship prior to becoming a federal MP. If you can refute any of those facts go for it. The TRUC has not exposed/proven anything and will not report on its findings till later. Its not about proving anything its about the smear.
    aly_rob60
    9th Jul 2015
    12:05pm
    Let's face it.....they are ALL dodgy and we need to SACK the lot of them!
    No business would get away with running the country they way these overpaid morons do!
    Our country is bankrupt and our politicians are MORALLY bankrupt.

    Self government is the ONLY solution, with referendums that decide whether gays can marry, whether we should allow foreigners to buy our homes, our businesses our farms, that people smugglers should be shot and the boats turned back and whether we should allow people who join IS or any other terror group back into our country.
    surfer
    9th Jul 2015
    12:11pm
    Hi There, You and I are on the same page. This is the best country in the world bar none, but has been destroyed by dead wood non productive beauracrats only interested in feathering their own nests. As for queers getting married!!! What an insult to the heterosexual community. Spreading aids through our ranks. What about the poor little children they would adopt?? Horrendous. The western world is buggared. Drugs and queers.
    aly_rob60
    9th Jul 2015
    2:16pm
    Not on the same page about gay marriage....it's nobody's business but your own, as to who you marry....but seem to agree on the rest.
    MICK
    10th Jul 2015
    3:29pm
    aly: when morality, whatever that seems to mean these days, is dead you end up with a degenerate society not worth living in. I disagree with your post. Marriage was NEVER intended to be what the homosexual part of our society have made it. I note with interest that the Methodist Church is thinking of not marrying anybody if this gets up as it is concerned that the next demand from homosexuals is that they have the legal right to marry in a church........which from memory is a house of God. Probably wasted on you though.
    KSS
    9th Jul 2015
    12:23pm
    How typical of some contributors to this site. Failing to condemn or even acknowledge the existence of the serious allegations against Mr Shorten, yet pointing the finger and demanding action against Mr Abbott and the LNP. Somewhat hypocritical don't you think? Yet a double standard to be expected here.

    Can't wait to see how they will justify the allegations of Mr Shorten selling out union members workplace rights for his own election prospects and fraudulent increases in union membership. And this allegedly against the lowest paid workers who didn't even know they had become union members. Since we have no real information on this yet, it will be interesting to know how much more damage Mr Shorten did to low paid workers and in favour of employers and the unions than Mr Howard was accused of doing under Work Choices.

    Strap yourselves in! This could be a bumpy ride.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    12:52pm
    No KSS, not hypocritical at all. That's just it, some of us are NOT hypocritical at all. We recognise the failings of Shorten but also acknowledge the lies, deceit, secrecy, and his lack of forclosure of his own donations/expenses, you name it. Surely you are not that one eyed, you can't see that neither party can claim the moral high ground. May I say, ESPECIALLY the LNP.
    KSS
    9th Jul 2015
    12:57pm
    So Jen where are the calls for Mr Shorten to resign (since he can't be forced out of office, Mr Rudd saw to that)? Where is your condemnation of his alleged actions against workers whilst the head of the union?

    I am certainly not one-eyed as you call it. All I call for is a level playing field. Criticise if you will, but do it with integrity and without the personal abuse that usually accompanies the critique. Unfortunately some on this site are incapable of doing that.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    12:58pm
    KSS if anything's typical of some contributors to this site, it's this very post of yours.

    Speaking of workers, how much damage is Tony Abbott doing to the Australian workers by bringing in thousands of workers from overseas? Are you happy that your children and grandchildren are going to be peasants in their own land because if they want a job, they'll have to accept Chinese rates and conditions? If not, there are plenty of Chinese who'll jump at the jobs. Thanks to your esteemed Mr. Abbott.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    1:03pm
    KSS, I haven't actually seen ANY calls on this forum for Mr. Abbott to resign?? However, I personally don't think either Abbott or Shorten should be in their positions.

    Come on! Saying "surely you are not that one eyed" is not personal abuse! Dear oh dear.
    leonYLC
    9th Jul 2015
    1:21pm
    KSS, I agree that Mr Shorten should be scrutinised for his non-disclosure. They are serious allegations, but until they are proven, I'm not really in a position to bring out the fire and brimstone. You may have noticed that today's news is purely a reporting piece, not an opinion piece. But in my opinion, I believe the whole process of political donations needs to be overhauled. I don't agree with unions and corporations being the biggest political donors. I don't think this stance is limited to one party or the other. And if you go after one, you've got to go after them all, which could indeed reduce Parliament to one man and his secretary. Thanks for your comments KSS, it is always good to hear from all sides of the square.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    1:34pm
    KSS
    You want people to condemn a person because of allegations ? What exactly are these allegations because as yet the inquiry has made no specific allegations and have not proven anything untoward. How do you get the notion that unionist working on road construction are the lowest paid workers ?
    I think the strangest thing about the coalition attacking Shorten via a smear inquiry is that the AWU negotiated on behalf of the workers the very way that it says unions should behave. No strkes or trouble but negotiation at the table and delivered work on budget. Thats a result business and unions were happy with and the workers got jobs without industrial strikes and healthy pay packets. Not exhorbitant paypackets like pollies but better than workchoices pay packets.
    KSS
    9th Jul 2015
    2:50pm
    Jen the personal abuse I was referring to in this context was the personal abuse levelled at mostly the LNP politicians in general and Mr Abbott in particular.

    And geomac, if cleaners are not some of the lowest paid workers in Australia then who are? And it is cleaners who are among those most affected by the alleged actions of Mr Shorten.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    6:26pm
    HSU members?
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:09pm
    KSS: the jury is literally still out. Remember that Gillard ended up having no case to answer despite this government smearing her as well...but the result was achieved as Labor lost the election.
    Lets be a bit fair. If there is a case to answer then sack Shorten. If not Abbott should resign from politics and not get his pension....the penalty for a malicious pursuit. Sounds fair to me.
    Abby
    16th Jul 2015
    7:23am
    Yes I remember the Gillard case ... how convenient that a whole heap of documents just disappeared ???
    I also remember the rape and paedophile case of Bill Shorten was dismissed by the Police as there was not enough evidence ... they should extend the RC into the churches to include the Young Labor Party
    Misty
    16th Jul 2015
    7:53am
    Abby why not go the whole hog and have a RC into all political parties then no one can start flinging mud at one another.
    Adrianus
    16th Jul 2015
    8:55am
    Probably nothing in it, but I cannot stop thinking about why ex HSU Fiona Ward wanted her name supressed. Why was Shorten laughing so much at the thought of that? By having Ward's name supressed then having the suppression order lifted the following day when Shorten was no longer required as a witness raised a lot of questions in my mind. Did it have something to do with Ward's current position with Victorian Police Minister Wade Noonan? And if so what?

    9th Jul 2015
    12:32pm
    It seems a strange situation where members of a union are better off on the AWARD than an EBA negotiation by their Union.
    Tom Tank
    9th Jul 2015
    12:44pm
    Interestingly the very thing Shorten is being accused of in this regard is the self same thing The Institute Of Public Affairs, the faceless men behind the liberal Party, congratulated Shorten on when he organised the deal.
    A bit of hypocrisy and political grandstanding going on here.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    1:10pm
    Pete, I feel sorry for the pickers at Chiquita Mushrooms, like many union members they were left in the dark and fed BS even though they had stewards amongst them.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:18pm
    Pete I feel powerless given that this government is being shielded from corruption allegations which many suspect but which appear to be hidden by the main media players who downplay, do not properly investigate or even refuse to print when allegations surface against the LNP.
    I have a question: why were the allegations levelled at Joe Hockey by the Fairfax group not extensively investigated by the mainstream media and why were the donations made not identified (who made them) and exposed? A no brainer!
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    1:05pm
    Is this TURC worth $61m? You bet it is! It's just a pity that those who need the education will simply brush it off as a which hunt.
    Make no mistake this Inquiry is serious and far overdue. It is about time Trade Union bosses stop behaving like unaccountable mobsters with short memories when it comes to their practices. It's more than about time these organisations become accountable like any other business.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    1:09pm
    Agreed, but would you agree, it's time to spend that amount of money on a Royal Commission into the LNP?
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    1:13pm
    For what purpose Jen? To even up the score in a political sense? Are you saying the Unions and the ALP are one in the same?
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    1:19pm
    What's wrong with evening up the score Frank? Don't want the bleeding obvious about the LNP to be revealed? Didn't you want a level playing field? Then what have you got against one?
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    1:39pm
    Frank Howards 60 million commission resulted in not one charge. Gillard once again showed the waste of money by Abbott and made the legal eagles look amateurs. Same will happen with Shorten. Meanwhile the finance industry gets revealed weekly/monthly to have acted illegally with joe blows money but the coalition says nothing to see here. In fact the coalition has weakened the regulations Labor put in to rein in the finance industry. Go figure that one out.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    2:18pm
    Well, let's see what the Fair Work Amendment Bill looks like when it hits the floor. Then see if it was worth it. Personally I think it will pass, opposed only by Labor. And after watching the Royal Commission I can understand why Labor will oppose it.
    MITZY
    9th Jul 2015
    3:29pm
    The whole lot of them are not worth wasting breath on. Look at the ICAC "Operation Spicer" last year where Counsel, Geoffrey Watson, acted for ICAC re Liberal Party donations from developers were scrutinised. Twelve MP's either resigned or went to the cross benches. Labor Party MPs even trashed their own i.e.Jodi McKay. Sinodinis made a statement that if he was at the Libs meeting that discussed "washing" funds through the FEF (Free Enterprise Foundation) back to the NSW LIBS "....if he was there it went completely over his head!...".
    Twelve Libs either lost their seats or went to the cross benchers and/or later resigned such as Chris Hartcher and Mike Gallagher.
    Barry O'Farrell loses the top job over a bottle of wine. All these donations were accepted with the Libs knowing full well the previous Labor Government had legislation in place about non-acceptance since 2009/2010.
    Gone were: MP's for Port Stephens, Newcastle, Wyong, Swansea, Terrigal, The Entrance, Londonderry etc.
    As noted in the media this is a "Witch Hunt" and the third one brought about by the Liberal Party, firstly Howard against Rudd and then Abbott against Gillard and now Shorten. Its costs the taxpayer could do without considering how much that money could have been spent on more worthwhile projects over these three enquiries. Politicians fluffing up their feathers hoping for political mileage against their opposition. Nothing will change, when will the next ICAC enquiry start?!
    MITZY
    9th Jul 2015
    4:16pm
    Meant Abbott against Rudd:
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    4:30pm
    I would not be surprised to see Kevin Rudd make a comeback!
    Misty
    9th Jul 2015
    5:00pm
    Frank we need to know what deals were made or not made when donations from big business and Mining Magnates were made to all parties so a RC into Corporate Donations should be next on the RC Agenda.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    5:49pm
    Misty I agree!
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:22pm
    THIS IS THE THIRD ROYAL COMMISSION BEFORE THE THIRD FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN. Cost: $100 million.
    Were the last 2 which had no basis and no conviction worth all this taxpayer money? What do you think government troll Frank?
    Is this one worth it? To be seen.........but given the track record this is another government smear campaign: we're paying!
    Ok Frank the troll: lets, after the election is over, have a wide ranging Royal Commission into election donations from both Labor AND Liberal. I'm sure you'll agree with that.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    8:31pm
    The first one was absolutely necessary. When government policy contributes to the death of 6 people it is crucial that we have a royal commission. The second one you refer to would have been brought on by some Labor/Union people who were aggrieved by Gillard, Wilson and co.
    This current RC is wanted by all freedom loving Australians and is essential to having a framework which does not include secret deals.
    Jen
    10th Jul 2015
    8:19am
    After the Royal Commission into the Pink Batts debacle (which found the Rudd/Gillard Govt. had no case to answer) I can see an even costlier one in the future when under-qualified Chinese electricians take over the jobs of Australian electricians. Ditto mechanics, plumbers etc. I doubt the LNP will be found with no case to answer.
    MICK
    10th Jul 2015
    3:35pm
    Frank: you are a dead loss mate.
    Business owners and operators are responsible for ensuring that they look after the health of their workers, NOT GOVERNMENTS. The only time that is otherwise is when the government self manages a project. The pink batts was not the case as the government put forward the policy and then............over to business.
    And then you go on with Gillard WHO WAS CLEARED...as was always going to be the case because there was none to answer.
    And now up to the last one: IF YOU WANT HONESTY THEN CALL FOR A ROYAL COMMISSION INTO ALL POLITICAL DONATIONS....INCLUDING YOUR EMPLOYER, THE LNP.
    You are such a deceitful person Frank. You irk me. But then the apple has not fallen too far from the tree so why am I not surprised.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    3:35pm
    mick, I don't see why you want a RC into election funding when you AND other posters here see no wrong doing when it occurs as has been revealed in recent days.
    Personally I disagree with Shorten's comment on that. I agree that there needs to be greater transparency. I'm not too sure how it will look in the perfect world. I must say, I like the idea of viewing a Parties website where up to the minute donations are captured and displayed.
    The problem is that politics has become so tribal these days. I would not like to see Con the Fruiterer black balled by Lib voters because he donated $500 to Labor.
    Kato
    9th Jul 2015
    1:10pm
    Sixty one million. Great when it is taxpayers funds you can throw around just for political mileage. When you cancel funding for homeless and mentally ill youth. Something wrong in Australian politics.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    1:20pm
    Kato there may be some political fall out from the TURC but I can assure you it is worth more than $61m if it makes Australia a more efficient and globally competitive country.
    Kato
    9th Jul 2015
    7:02pm
    Frank - but it will not achieve that aim. As for Shorten I think his time is up. But none of what you claim in global efficiency and competiveness' helps our mentally ill youth now. That is the shame of all side of politics.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:25pm
    Frank: another paid political advertisement from the government? Own up. Cash for comment?
    Read my post above and lets settle this witch hunt with a wide ranging RC to get to the bottom of election funding......BUT INCLUDE YOUR EMPLOYER in the RC. Ok?
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    1:11pm
    It's been disclosed that Tony Abbott and some of his front benchers claimed $10,000 in expenses to ride in a charity bike ride in NSW. Seems there's two kinds of charity, one that is given from the heart, one that's paid for by the workers without their permission.
    Anonymous
    9th Jul 2015
    1:38pm
    Tony Abbott is doing what the Jesuits have always done.
    His values and motive are all based on evil. It's a pity the majority of Australian tax payers are naive.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    2:08pm
    Jen, yes apparently some did claim and some didn't. I don't know what that has to do with the TURC though? It is interesting that when crooks are caught red handed their immediate line of defence is that everyone else is doing it. This goes a long way to confirming a suspicion held by many that people who are easily groomed into doing the wrong thing become lefties because of their general lack of understanding.
    MITZY
    9th Jul 2015
    3:44pm
    My second cousin who is a DJ at 2GB and sometimes fills in for another high profiler there had to give evidence at Operation Spicer on bogus cheques he wrote to certain people to hide political donations and said he didn't question the writing of those cheques because the person who asked him to do it was a Solicitor of high repute!!
    He was easily groomed into doing the wrong thing, but he's definitely not a "Leftie" and would never be found giving a skerrick in favour of anything Labor. He would definitely be far right Liberal. Every word he utters is Liberal and thank goodness I don't see him that often, because he practically forces his opinion down one's throat. I've given up giving too many comments of late on any subject as there is hardly ever any "Centre" here.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    3:55pm
    Frank is quoting the standard liberal propaganda quotes. If you say it often enough people will believe it. If he says it a thousand more times, he will believe it.

    Frank: rubbish!
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    4:12pm
    Jen, have you ever thought how silly it sounds to defend a wrong doing? Shorten looked pretty dam stupid trying to defend this stuff saying it was normal etc. I think what the electorate want to hear is "that does not seem right. I will fix it." The more Shorten and other Labor/Union figures defend this wrong doing and the secret payments, the more political skin they lose.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    4:13pm
    MITZY, one swallow does not a summer make.
    MITZY
    9th Jul 2015
    4:24pm
    And, who are the "many" people who became lefties?
    Operation Spicer ended in 12 Liberals resigning or going to the cross benches for a time and then some of them also resigning. Plenty of Swallows flying the bird's nests there.
    Jen
    9th Jul 2015
    6:34pm
    Frank you're good for a laugh. You defend LNP wrong doings all the time on this forum!

    Good night.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:27pm
    Frank: you have no credibility. YOU frequently turn any discussion not involving unions or the Labor Party into an attack on both. Crawl back under the rock mate if you cannot stop posting government propaganda posts here. They are not appreciated.
    Chris B T
    9th Jul 2015
    2:04pm
    A union member pays Dues/Fees, its for union Management and Repersentation of Workers to Employers. Not a collection or diversion of funds for Union Officals to campaign/promote/fund in any way To Political Parties.
    I do not remember seeing on my union application forms funds will be used in this manner.
    Union Officals Should Resign There Position When Preselected for any Political Party.
    I would like a refund of my Union Fees, when out on strike for days to weeks no Food Parcells just BullSxxx Talk we have achieved 2.5% pay rise to which the Company was offering before the strike.
    Go Their Hardest, They Shouldn't Be There.
    Unions Have There Place, to achieve Political Representation on the back of Union Funds Is WRONG.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    2:27pm
    Apparently ACI paid the AWU $480m for "paid education" which doesn't show up on members reports. Crystal clear for Bill Shorten, but for the glass blowers there was no transparency.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    3:18pm
    Shareholders are not asked when a company gives donations to political parties either.
    480m Frank ? 480 million typo ?
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    3:48pm
    oops! $480,000. Either way it is a lot of money for a business to donate to a union. It was donated on the understanding that it was to be used for training. However the unions training costs for that year were only $16,500 approximately cant recall the exact figure.
    It appears Labor are in the pocket of big business.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:29pm
    Make it up Frank. You have no credibility so who cares..........
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    8:56pm
    The Gillard government also gave the AWU $10m for training more delegates.
    My question is....when will these people finish their training and get a real job???
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    9:37pm
    Frank
    When will we stop training Iraqi soldiers ? Seems like we have spent billions over there and so far not one positive result but heaps of negatives.
    I have no knowledge of this 10m so could you elaborate. I don,t like to comment on something without doing some research or already have knowledge. I do not recall any media on this 10 million.
    I am sure newscorpse would have mentioned it.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    9:51pm
    It was in Gillard's 2011/12 Budget for the training of upcoming union leaders. There was also another $10m donation to the Unions in Rudd's 2010/11 Budget. I don't know if News Corp mentioned anything about it? Training is a big thing with Unions. It must be full time training, is it?
    MICK
    10th Jul 2015
    3:41pm
    And the Abbott regime has given the fossil fuel industry $80 BILLION A YEAR, compliments of taxpayers.
    You might like to detail what the arrangements were between Hockey and big business which resulted in the recent court case Frank. It would come as no surprise if the event were anything other than election funding in exchange for 'favours'....a business deal? Come on...you have the information available. Make it public and clear the air.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    4:20pm
    Apparently it was a return of a $20m loan the Labor government borrowed from the CFMEU. Perhaps it was just habit I guess that they should call it funding for "training."
    I think we should have a RC into government expenditure during the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd government.
    dougie
    9th Jul 2015
    2:08pm
    I am so sorry for the low paid unionists that it appears have been ripped off so that a pollie can get his hands on funds for his election to our Federal Government. When a man stabs his friends in the back in order to get his way there is no doubt that there will be much hidden amongst the chaff of life.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    3:24pm
    How were they ripped off dougie ?
    If you are referring to Shorten the seat he obtained is as safe as Abbotts and no way the electorate would vote for any other party.
    Are you talking about Abbott and Slipper in regard to stabbing in the back or Abbott and Turnbull ? Maybe you are talking about Howard and Peacock which was reciprocal on a few occasions.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    3:55pm
    geo, if the seat was so safe, and I don't dispute that, then why did Unibuilt donate $40,000 to increase Shorten's chances?
    How is it that "UNIBUILT" became a bankrupt and it's subsidiary "UNIBILT" carried on the labour hire business?
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    4:52pm
    Rebirthing from bankrupt companies is common in all areas of business and its beyond me why it is not stamped out. A death occurs and the company declares itself bankrupt to avoid paying damages and gets away with it, criminal in my book. Same sort of thing happens when a company creates a phantom firm that sub contracts workers but it is the main firm pulling hte strings. Same company but it avoids providing workers entitlements by using the sham contractor. Pickering uses bankruptcy to avoid paying debts and to avoid being sued. Scam merchants all over the place Frank. A bit like the water mob Sinadonis fronted.
    dougie
    10th Jul 2015
    4:43pm
    Geomac,
    What about the unionists who were signed up up AWU supposedly without their knowledge in return for favourable EBAs. Come on now if you were a worker and somebody sold you down the river to get a to cover the cost of a campaign director, would you be angry? Then to forget about the payment for what is probably your most valuable asset in an election campaign. Excuse me! I only hope that the company Management responsible are brought before the Royal Commission to answer questions which may then be directed to both Mr Shorten and the Unions concerned. Lets see what comes to light then.
    wally
    13th Jul 2015
    12:14pm
    I doubt that the union membership got their money's worth (From their union dues) when Bill Shorten tells them he is acting in their best interest and then accepts company money to do nothing for the unionists. From this, it would appear that the AWU was accepting union dues from the union rank and file under false pretences.

    This is hardly an endorsement of the trustworthiness of Bill Shorten as a Union boss or as a potential Prime Minister.
    surfer
    9th Jul 2015
    2:37pm
    The poor garden gnome will now be extinct. Thieving little union pig.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    3:31pm
    Well why wait for proof or the final report eh ? Even the commission has not accused Shorten of thieving but here you are a moniker in a forum disparaging a person as if you had the report and knew the result. Bet you were disappointed when Gillard made a monkey out of Abbott and the rest of the shrills when their false accusations came to nought.
    In my mind thieving is claiming 9 grand for work expenses when its for personal gain ie book promotion. I am sure you would agree, yes ?
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    4:03pm
    Bob Hogg, is very angry with Shorten.
    Bob Hogg has a long history in the inner circles of the Labor Party. He was Victorian secretary of the ALP from 1976-78, was a senior adviser to prime minister Bob Hawke from 1983 to 1986, advised Victorian premier John Cain from 1986-1987 and was ALP national secretary from 1988-93.
    Hogg has called for Shorten to resign.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    4:55pm
    Hogg was also in the doodoo for failing to declare donations so who is he to cast stones ? In any case he has an axe to grind along with his wife Maxine.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    6:33pm
    Oh no, not another Labor crook! When will this nightmare end.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:33pm
    An assumption surfer. Lets have the trial first and then the hanging.
    Frank of course is paid to do this. No trial required.
    Misty
    9th Jul 2015
    8:40pm
    Frank Bob Hogg is no angel, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, just Google the story.

    9th Jul 2015
    4:35pm
    Give It a go Mick we had a couple of Independents in Windsor and Buckshot (or whatever his name is) who backed up Gillard and the country was nearly ruined with those two fools.

    Lets face it independents have little or no say so it is a useless vote.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    5:00pm
    You mean the two independents who helped provide a full term of Gillard govt ? Neither trusted Abbott and have been vindicated by the Abbott budget which trashed just about every promise made in the 2013 election. Flakey as a danish pastry and a liar to boot is our Abbott. He has managed to increase the deficit by 100 billion but the coalition does not talk about the economy anymore does it.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    6:36pm
    The Independents are Labor undercover. They will give their preference to Labor.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:38pm
    The problem we have robbo is not too many Independents but rather TOO FEW.
    The reason we have bad politics is because of vested interests who own politicians. Both sides.
    INDEPENDENTS MEAN REAL GOVERNMENT. If you have any doubt then who brought forward legislation to protect problem gamblers? And which political Party tried to kill off this legislation? Because their sponsors were happy to turn gambling addicts into street people. And then we have alcohol fuelled violence where many young Australian men were routinely killed. Same story. Same political Party.
    Give it a break guys. You have no shame.
    wally
    11th Jul 2015
    12:27am
    mick, are you suggesting that what Australia needs are a few more Jaqui Lambie clones in parliament? If it were not so serious, it would be laughable. Parliament would be even more of a Punch and Judy Show than it is now
    Misty
    9th Jul 2015
    4:45pm
    Time for a Royal Commission into Corporate donations, especially from the mining section.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:41pm
    Right on the money. This government will of course refuse such a RC as it only likes RC's into unions and Labor before every election. Just a political smear to get votes. Disgraceful! But then that describes this government in a word. I have a long memory.
    Kt
    9th Jul 2015
    4:57pm
    Surfer you hit it on the head when you called the PM a gnome . I laughed at such a 'spot-on'
    Characterisation .
    The joke,re the RC, is on us- we are paying billions to stroke Abbotts little fetish.
    Let's find out what Abbott gets from his monied friends and the free advertising from Murdoch press.
    BTW did you see Abbott's declaration for candidate showed NIL in the donations area . Didn't see that in the newspapers .
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:44pm
    What do they say: if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and acts like a duck....its a duck? Or is that a gnome?
    You won't see much in an of the mainstream media about Abbott or his cronies. Fairfax and the ABC are the only outlets which try to bring balance. The others are owned by the rich and their big business interests and it is in their interests to only print anti-union and ant-Labor propaganda.

    9th Jul 2015
    4:58pm
    I seem to remember Keating calling Richo the member for Packer.
    Will shorten be known as The Member for Lieberman or Pratt...
    Anonymous
    9th Jul 2015
    5:04pm
    Investigations by The Australian show Cleanevent was owned by Melbourne’s Liberman family — estimated by BRW to be the nation’s second-wealthiest — at the time it negotiated the controversial “side deal” with the Australian Workers Union that severely disadvantaged workers.

    Under the 2010 deal, AWU Victoria contracted not to take ­industrial action against Clean­event in return for annual payments of $25,000, saving Clean­event $2 million a year in wages.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    5:24pm
    2010 deal ? Shorten by then was already an MP of three years. Whats the relevance to this topic ?
    Kt
    9th Jul 2015
    5:01pm
    Leon Della Bosca - you showed your bias with the wording of this article . You should be ashamed of the picture used - of hands receiving money .
    What happened to fair reporting , but then are you a real reporter or just a troll
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    8:38pm
    Don't know if you noticed Kt, it is not an opinion piece. I can vouch for the above facts.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:48pm
    I agree with you Kt.
    No dishonesty has been proven and given the normal timing just before an election is to be called one has to understand that this Royal Commission, just like the two before it, are nothing more than the next smear campaign from a desperate government which is hated by most Australians and heading for electoral defeat.
    Kt
    9th Jul 2015
    5:09pm
    Frank , before you say anymore - it is not your roll to pass such judgement. for goodness sake if you are going to comment at least watch the unfolding of this RC.
    Re the money to the union - the balance was read out of their financial report - it was paid in wages etc. to the trainers . Please listen and read the correct info or you will look a Pratt.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    6:43pm
    Kt it is my roll to call it as I see it. You are obviously easily fooled Kt. Don't look for the facts, you will be very disappointed, just be happy in your ignorance.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:50pm
    Kt: Frank is not one of us. Whilst we have all flavours here Frank is clearly a paid employee posting anti-union and Labor comments for his boss. Pay not much attention to him. Many of us have woken up to the game. I only entertain the guy to keep his posts in perspective.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    12:23pm
    What's this? "Frank is not one of us." Playing the discrimination card mick? Every one of "us" is entitled to an opinion.

    9th Jul 2015
    5:45pm
    I love the geomac's in their defence of bill the knife, shorten, however I bet You, he or she, "the geomack's", won't be game enough to meet him unless "the geomac's" has their bullet proof vest on.
    Anonymous
    9th Jul 2015
    6:12pm
    One of his own has turned on him today.

    "Former ALP national secretary Bob Hogg has called on Bill Shorten to fall on his sword, and attacked Labor figures who have defended him.

    In a stinging post on Facebook, Hogg writes: “Dear Bill – is the concept of conflict of interest beyond your understanding?”

    But supporters of Shorten immediately hit back, with a reminder that Hogg – when national secretary – had been put on a good behaviour bond in 1991 for failing to disclose individual donations to the ALP totalling almost A$143,000.

    Hogg condemned an “asinine” tweet from former Labor premier Kristina Keneally and said former Labor minister Greg Combet’s attendance at the royal commission “didn’t help the labor movement establish renewed credibility”.

    Evidence at the inquiry into union corruption on Wednesday revealed that Shorten had failed to declare until a few days ago donations from a building company to pay for a full-time campaign director in the run-up to the 2007 election. The man, Lance Wilson, was employed by the company and later the Australian Workers Union."
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    6:46pm
    Radish, makes me wonder why Combet didn't take the PM's job when Gillard offered it to him? He looked very nervous when Shorten was put under pressure.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:52pm
    You're right there radish. Obviously dissent in the ranks.
    No Frank.........nobody listening. Don't waste more of our taxpayer dollars with your deceit.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    9:28pm
    Heems what are you attempting to say ? I cannot make any sense of your comments. I cannot even guess what you are attempting to say.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    9:54pm
    geo, you do know that Heemskerk '99 is a wine?
    Misty
    9th Jul 2015
    9:56pm
    I thinkerk99 is getting mixed up with " Mack the Knife".
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    11:50pm
    Wine or wino Frank ? His comments make no sense at all, gibberish.
    wally
    9th Jul 2015
    6:29pm
    Unfortunately for Mr. Shorten, the old saying "Where's there's smoke there's fire" appears to apply in his case. So far his performance in the "hot seat" has not been convincing as far as destroying the charges he faces.

    That is, so far. Just as the investigations into the conduct of former Prime Ministers Rudd and Gillard failed to produce anything conclusive enough for charges to be brought against them, so must Mr Shorten be hoping a similar inconclusive results in this case.

    I am amused by remarks posted by some of our more rabid Abbott haters suggesting that the Coalition needs to be subjected to a similar Royal Commission investigation. If they have any conclusive and convincing evidence that would warrant investigation they should present proof. Instead they are jabbering on in a paranoid fashion about unfounded claims.

    In short, Pot up or shut up.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    7:30pm
    Wally
    Put up or shut up ? Abbott and his stooges said Gillard had questions to answer but never said what questions. Surely you remember that ? Gillard went for nearly an hour with the media till they had no questions. Abbott could not last ten minutes under that scrutiny and in fact avoids any scrutiny at all, walks away. Gillard fronted a commission and once again came out of it with a clean sheet.
    So Wally Abbott and his motley crew were left hanging in the wind with egg on their faces and exposed for the frauds that they are. Questions to answer ? Did you ask why they persisted so long with their vitriol based on nothing but political spite and innuendo ? Now we have proof Abbott presented paperwork for travel expenses that were in fact book promotions and proof Hockey charged 20 grand for donors to get access to him. We have proof a WA MP went from WA to QLD about a property instead of parliament business. We have proof Abbott got a gift of 60 grand education for his daughter from a party donor wrapped up in a sham scholarship that no one else got or was eligible for. We have a judge giving a judgement that Mal Brough had his finger in implicating Slipper.
    Lastly we have proof of malfeasance of illegality and corruption in the finance industry yet the govt weakens regulations that Labor put in to restrict those practices. No need for an inquiry says the coalition govt but industry super funds need regulation. The shining light in the finance industry that has had no malfeasance or illegal practices such as those at ANZ or IOOF. Now if ever there was a reason for an inquiry into govt corruption that is one right there Wally.
    Thats a lot of proof and its not the questions to answer rubbish put up by Abbott, Pyne etc etc. Wouldn,t you agree Wally ?
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    8:59pm
    wally: that sounds like a Frank post.
    Funny how you turn the argument around to 'proof'. I would have thought that (real) proof might also have been forthcoming against Shorten given that a Royal Commission now happens at every federal election campaign. Funny that.
    You ask for proof and I offer the Hockey defamation case. The meeting between big business and Hockey were confirmed and we are looking at some pretty hefty 'donations'. I would have thought that these so called donations are not donations of any sort and are in fact probably payments for legislation to be enacted. How about we run that one through a Royal Commission????? I thought not!
    wally
    9th Jul 2015
    9:51pm
    As I recall, Julia's one time boyfriend (back when she was ((in her words)) young and foolish) when she was with Slater and Gordon is doing in jail time these days. If Julia was as pure as the driven snow as mick and geomac seem to think she is, then why was her involvement with Slater and Gordon terminated so abruptly? As far as a the misdeeds you two attribute to Hockey, Brough and a mystery WA pollie going from WA to QLD pursuing personal business instead of doing as he'/she was supposed to be on government business. Hardly as serious as the alternative leader to Australia's cover up of political donations. After all, we do expect that our Party leaders will set examples of rectitude and fair play for us all.

    Maybe the Labor Party attracts self serving opportunists instead. This is in marked contrast the the behaviour of the NSW Premier's resignation because he neglected to mention the gift of a bottle of Grande Hermitage wine. Contrast this with the way the NSW Labor heavies Eddie Obeid and Joe Tripodi conducted themselves when Labor was in office in that state. If NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell resigns over an overlooked bottle of wine as a matter of principle, compare this with Bill Slhorten's desperate and at times clumsy and unconvincing efforts to cling to power over his neglecting a $40 000 campaign contribution made eight years ago. Whether he is incompetent or is a crook will be determined later. But he certainly shows he lacks the character shown by Barry O'Farrell in the matter of contributions, gifts and honourable conduct if office. Even Bob Hawke has had enough of watching Bill Shorten put Bill Shorten's ambition, ego and welfare ahead of the welfare of the Labor Party when Bob Hawke said Bill Shorten to resign. No former Liberal Prime Ministers ever said that about Tony Abbott!
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    10:08pm
    wally, these are not political donations. Lance Wilson was hired by Bill Shorten. $40,000 of his wages were paid by Unibilt. The remainder, $12,000, was paid by The AWU. Wilson was on the Unibilt staff roster as a researcher. The ATO would otherwise not have known that Wilson was working with Shorten.
    Wilson, who is still a proud ALP member, said Bill Shorten was a "great bloke and excellent to work for". That is because Shorten wasn't paying his wages.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    11:48pm
    Wally I can find nothing on Bruce Wilson being in jail so can you provide a source for your statement ? Have you confused Hawke with Bob Hogg ? BOF denied getting the wine which is different from forgetting to put it on his register or do you fail to see the difference ? BOF denied ever receiving the wine at ICAC and also later to the media. If he had said he had forgotten about it he would have be ok, bruised but politically ok. 12 libs resigned or stood down for brown bags or has that slipped your mind Wally ? BOF resigned the leadership because he put himself in it not because of character or principle. It was an own goal. Strange that you should mention the wine and not know the circumstances of the Premiers downfall. Everybody else does.
    Jen
    10th Jul 2015
    8:12am
    How much did it cost, I wonder to get the LNP to agree to this latest mine disaster in New England? Plonked right in the middle of one of Australia's premier food bowls. When prices of coal, iron ore etc. are dropping like flies and we're importing food - FOOD from China...Yes, the Labor party allowed the exploration licence but the LNP approved the mine. Must have cost a bomb for that signature. Shows how much profit there must be from raping Australia's resources, no matter how low prices go, after paying off the Government.
    wally
    10th Jul 2015
    11:12am
    Hi geo. More info about O'Farrell's brown bags, please. How much and from whom? At least O'Farrell resigned when caught out over the memory lapse involving wine. Unlike Mr. Shorten's attempts to "slime out" of the Lance Wilson "freebie" he received to the tune of $40,000.

    Evidently you appear to believe in the innocence of a certain Union heavy turned Labor MP named Craig Thomson whose use of union members' money funded his "therapy" sessions came to light despite Julia Gillard's denial of the illegality of Thomson's sordid frolics funded by the union rank and file. Am I to believe that you think someone crept in and stole Thomson's union supplied credit cards for fun and games in the brothels, snuck back in and returned the said credit cards and then, if Thomson's claims were true, why he did not question and repudiate those same credit card transactions when the credit card statements turned up.

    As I have said above, the "New" Labor Party appears to attract opportunists some of whom are too dumb to conceal their corrupt antics in both state and federal arenas. Like it or not, maybe the embarrassing Mark Latham was the last honest leader the Federal Labor Party chose to inflict on the Australian people.
    Kt
    9th Jul 2015
    7:08pm
    Frank I am not easily fooled . Yes I do look at the facts ,that is how I can speak with authority on a subject. You seem to be totally blinded by your ignorance of financial matters and your hatred of Bill Shorten and his party . To make your life easier for yourself try to stay away from matters you can't understand.
    Adrianus
    9th Jul 2015
    8:41pm
    I have no hatred for Bill Shorten but I do think if he aspires to be Prime Minister then he should show some transparency and fairness in his dealings.
    MICK
    9th Jul 2015
    9:01pm
    Ha ha ha..... No hatred of Bill Shorten Frank. Ha ha ha...... I am in raptures. Thanks for the laugh mate.
    And as for "fairness" the only fairness you have interest in is the destruction of any opposition to your employer.
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    10:13pm
    Frank
    The only thing I could find was this
    Our plan begins with a new approach to training.
    Putting industry at the heart of a $558 million National Workforce Development Fund that will deliver 130,000 new training places over four years.
    Better meeting the needs of industries and regions with a $101 million national mentoring program to help 40,000 apprentices finish training.
    Accelerating apprenticeships, letting them progress as they acquire the right skills, by investing $100 million in more flexible training models.
    Plus up to $1.75 billion, in addition to our existing $7 billion investment, to leverage ambitious reforms of the vocational education and training system.
    And funding 30,000 more places in the Language, Literacy and Numeracy Program to provide the basic skills essential for a job.
    Now if you are going to make statements I would appreciate if you could back them up in some way otherwise its just hot air. I don,t mind checking things out to satisfy my curiosity but I do mind going on a wild goose chase.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-11/grogs3a/2547092
    geomac
    9th Jul 2015
    10:22pm
    Frank
    You got it wrong which is why a bit of accuracy instead is required.
    The latest $12.7 million is part of a $30 million education and training plan that uses union and business groups and the Fair Work Ombudsman to explain the laws. Previously, almost $10 million was provided to employer organisations, $2.5 million to the ACTU and $4.2 million to the Ombudsman.

    Ms Gillard said all the grants would be audited to ensure they were being spent appropriately.

    ''The Government is serious about ensuring all employers and employees have access to the tools they need as the new system gets up and running,'' she said.


    http://www.smh.com.au/national/storm-over-fair-work-grant-to-union-fund-20100111-m0u8.html

    Now thats so much different from what you described isn,t it ?
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    8:31am
    geo, you must be an ex union boss with your brand of maths. So the $10m was provided to employer organisations? Only $2.5m to the ACTU and $4.2m to the Ombudsman eh? We are missing $3.3m? I suppose it has been rounded up?
    In future don't waste your time scouring the SMH and ABC for a flimsy defence. I know it's difficult but try getting some facts next time.
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    10:56am
    Frank
    I look stuff up to check on your dodgy comments and vague assertions. Facts are not your style Frank and the ABC is the most trusted source of news in Australia. I provided an address so try and read the article instead of just the piece I posted. You obviously have the time to read it.

    10th Jul 2015
    7:06am
    How come a bunch of racketeers who claim to represent 12 per cent of the workplace own a political party.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    8:09am
    I want to know how they got so much power that they can sack a first term sitting Prime Minister?
    Anonymous
    10th Jul 2015
    1:31pm
    If Shortchange can rationalise the below-award Cleanevent agreement on the basis that none of the operators in the industry observed the award, it raises issues of what the fair work commission is for and supposed to apply a no disadvantage test, but of course it accepts a stac dec from the racketeers.,of course the fair work commission is staffed by Labor fellow travellers including that wonderful example of Kathy Jacksons lover and on Compo for nine months in the last twelve and he is the second in command ..What a bunch ,.,

    And why would a company pay a union to keep the peace when, under the Fair Work Act, industrial action is only permitted during defined protected periods?
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    1:38pm
    I see another name change....Unfair Work Commission.
    Strummer
    10th Jul 2015
    7:25am
    To think that only one side of politics is dirty is naive at best
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    8:22am
    jaker, knowing means nothing unless you do something with that knowledge. When you know it is wrong to take bribes and do nothing because it is part of a culture then that makes you part of the problem. A big part. Your position is irrational.
    Let's deal with the problem before us and send a message that we, the people of Australia, will not accept this sort of crap. Then we can deal with the next problem, "political donations" in it's entirety.
    MICK
    10th Jul 2015
    3:57pm
    Frank: spoken like the true troll you are.
    jaker: ignore Frank. He's just an employee doing his job. The reality is you will only ever see anti-Labor and anti-union posts from this person no matter how corrupt his employer is or becomes. It is sickening after a while.

    10th Jul 2015
    7:38am
    Let’s face it, Bill, the payment of $110, 000 per year to the AWU from Thiess-John Holland was not for services rendered by the union.

    You know it, we know it.

    And was it just a coincidence that Chiquita Mushrooms handed over precisely $4000 a month to the AWU because the value of services provided by the union to company came to precisely $4000 a month? That was until the company decided not to pay the invoices any more.

    The trouble for Shorten is that there are just too many instances in which dubious payments were made to the union and where members were enlisted without their knowledge or consent.

    It doesn't pass the pub test
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    10:11am
    Pete Unibuilt eventually decided to stop making payments as well, so the AWU just wrote off the last 2 invoices. I think Jeremy Stoljar has made a very strong case that these rorts are part of a deep cultural long running practice.
    On Monday the hearing will move on to the CFMEU which should be interesting.
    I suspect the AWU would have been successful in convincing employers to part with money because the alternative was to deal with the CFMEU.
    MICK
    10th Jul 2015
    4:03pm
    Pete: who knows? The truth always comes out. It did for Gillard who had no case to answer. It will for SHorten as well.
    Perhaps lets have a look at the relationship between this government and big business donations which we all suspect has strings attached. Anybody who saw the "bad Carbon Tax" unfold resulting in $8 billion a year now going to the fossil fuel industry will get it. The list is a lot longer but lets see this for what it is: a smear campaign. We all await the result....which will happen AFTER the election as it did with Gillard. Funny how these things come as an election is underway.
    wally
    11th Jul 2015
    12:23am
    Let us not rush to judgement until the RC has run its course.
    Pollyanna
    10th Jul 2015
    9:33am
    He did the crime, make him do the crime and while you are at it there is so much information on Ms Gillard with the fraud squad that she could go away for the rest of her life. Why are politicians above the law
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    10:24am
    Very good question Pollyanna!
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    11:04am
    What crime ? Gillard has been cleared after forensic examination but why bother with law when smear is available ? No wonder child abuse by peds went on for so long when people can hide behind a religion yet others are found guilty when even a RC finds then innocent. Abbott gave ped priest Nestor a character reference, apt.

    10th Jul 2015
    9:52am
    Whats the saying you lay down with dogs you get fleas.

    Bill must be very itchie at the moment
    Jen
    10th Jul 2015
    10:22am
    Oh gawd, how blind some people are. This is why we're getting coal mines in the middle of premier food bowls...

    Well, enjoy your food from China.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    10:38am
    How blind indeed.

    "All the world that's owned by idle drones is ours and ours alone.
    We have laid the wide foundations; built it skyward stone by stone.
    It is ours, not to slave in, but to master and to own.
    While the union makes us strong.
    They have taken untold millions that they never toiled to earn,
    But without our brain and muscle not a single wheel can turn.
    We can break their haughty power, gain our freedom when we learn
    That the union makes us strong."

    First we had the faceless men now we have the paperless contracts. While the 12% of workers go to bed at night singing and thinking it will be all right!
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    11:05am
    Abbott must have scabies then
    wally
    10th Jul 2015
    11:29am
    Wasn't the NSW Labor government (led by Ms Christine Keneally) busy promoting land sales to mining conglomerates? Wasn't Eddie Obeid (another Labor stalwart and heavy weight in the NSW branch of the Labor Party) trying to organise the purchase of farm land near Mudgee so that he could on sell it to mining interests at great profit to himself?

    So, jen, let us not overlook the propensity for greed and corruption endemic in the Labor Party leadership both on state and federal levels. And as far as I can tell, Barnaby Joyce is still Agriculture Minister in the Abbott government and he is raising a stink about the strip mine on the Liverpool Plains.

    So yes, courtesy of the "benefits" of free trade agreements with certain overseas countries, we find our grocery shelves flooded with food from China, the Americas and Europe to the detriment of locally produced food products. Only a consumer back lash against these foreign sourced items and a return to Aussie made/grown/produced equivalents will see these products rendered unprofitable to Coles (and others) and withdrawn from sale in Australia.
    Pollyanna
    10th Jul 2015
    12:14pm
    Geomac may have been cleared for now but there is so much more to come out yet
    Jen
    10th Jul 2015
    3:15pm
    Wally, it's a little late for Barnaby Joyce to raising a stink now, isn't it? Yes, Labor allowed the exploration licence but it was the LNP who signed the agreement to go ahead. For which they will be forever condemned. So much damage done, something disastrous almost every day. But most wouldn't even know what's happening because they watch the news on commercial stations at night and read Murdoch papers. That's why so many are blind. They don't even know what's going on because you have to search for the truth, it's not handed to you on a platter any more.
    wally
    11th Jul 2015
    5:35pm
    Jen, the "stink raising" Barnaby can say what he wants, but I think the NSW state government led by Premier Baird has the final say on the Liverpool Plains mining issue. How much leverage Barnaby can exert on Baird remains to be seen. Saying Barnaby should resign reflects "stirring" rather than ignorance of the state and Commonwealth governmental differences. So Barnaby can say what he wants, but the state government has the final "say" in the matter.
    Reeper
    10th Jul 2015
    11:43am
    Listen to yourselve...... the story is about one of the most corrupt organisations in Australia - the trade union movment and possibly the ALP and few of you can accept the truth.
    Some of you are so sad; jackie and Jen sound like demented bogans. Lots of (dumb) comment, but not a single piece of evidence. Get back to your knitting you stupid people
    Pollyanna
    10th Jul 2015
    12:18pm
    Dear Reeper, Please do not call people stupid. Everyone has an opinion and has a right to it
    Misty
    10th Jul 2015
    2:22pm
    I wouldn't be too cocky yet Reeper as I am sure if Labor gets in they will hold a RC into Corporate donations to the Liberal Coalition Party and who knows what that might bring forth, TA has opened a can of worms here with his 3 RC.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    3:17pm
    Misty, there is no way that Labor will hold a RC into corporate donations. Absolutely no way. Shorten was asked today and with that roll of the eyes and the little shake of the head he does when you know something up top is working overtime, he simply refused to accept it was necessary. What, with all the checks and balances we have in place??? What could that Journo be thinking???
    Jen
    10th Jul 2015
    8:46pm
    I doubt it would ever occur to you, Reeper, that some of us think the same of you. And worse.
    wally
    13th Jul 2015
    12:20pm
    O where o where is the Christian charity we should all be expressing in our posts/
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    11:56am
    Mafia connection with libs
    Geoffrey Watson SC explained how that worked:

    ... the idea is that you would be a donor of a particular value and that would get you so much access, whether at dinners or fundraising events of different kinds. It's access in return for a donation.

    In late 2003, Amanda Vanstone replaced Philip Ruddock as immigration minister.

    In the lead-up to the 2004 election, Tony Madafferi organised a political fundraiser in Melbourne attended by three Liberal parliamentarians. Vanstone was the guest speaker. On that night, Madafferi donated $15,000 to the Liberal Party's Millennium Forum.

    According to Four Corners:

    In November 2005, after years spent lobbying, Frank Madafferi finally got the break he was looking for. Amanda Vanstone intervened in the case and overturned the deportation order.
    wally
    11th Jul 2015
    12:18am
    Sort of like Al Grasby and Griffith's kings in grass castles, eh geo?
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    12:59pm
    Well Bill Shorten has bounced out of the witness box and headed straight for the hospitals to talk up the Nurses.
    If I was a Nurse I would be asking Shorten a few questions. Especially if I was a Victorian Nurse.
    I think we would all agree that the Unions are very well represented and very strong in Victoria, especially the Health Services Union.

    Well why is it that Nurses in Victoria are the lowest paid of any state????

    Health Services Union whistleblower Kathy Jackson has accused Labor Party leader Bill Shorten and his allies of being in a "corrupt little gang" and of circling unions like vultures to further their own political power.

    She has also called on Prime Minister Tony Abbott to put the HSU into administration and accused the union of putting her through "judicial gang rape"." -SMH August 30, 2014.

    "A UNION corruption inquiry has heard accusations that federal Labor leader Bill Shorten was dabbling in the murky world of Health and Services Union politics while he was still a member of the Rudd government in 2009. Bill Shorten gave me $5000, says HSU whistleblower Marco Bolano.
    Yesterday Mr Bolano told the commission of the bullying and harassment he suffered by backing whistleblower Kathy Jackson’s corruption claims against HSU boss Michael Williamson." - Daily Telegraph June 17, 2014
    There seems to be so many Labor/Union people calling for action to clean up the mess. Is this just coincidence?
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    1:35pm
    Kathy Jackson ? You mean the woman who is the partner of Abbotts buddy Lawler ? The same Kathy who was championed by Reith, Abbott etc etc and is now being chased in the courts to pay back the odd million she spent on herself and her partner and has declared bankruptcy to avoid paying.
    " Norington’s article published yesterday gives an eyewitness account of the pressure exerted on the 83-year-old dementia sufferer David Rofe by this Coalition pin-up girl Kathy Jackson and her Tony Abbott appointed Fair Work Commission vice president partner Michael Lawler. If the allegations, which have come via a signed affidavit that was given to NSW Police, are true then it really does paint this pair in an extremely poor light. "
    Seriously Frank you want to use Jackson as a talking point ? Abbotts pin up girl is now persona non grata. Like Slipper she has served her purpose.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    3:08pm
    Oh, good lord! Not another Labor/Union crook. The list goes on. Is there anyone in Labor we can trust to give a straight forward account of what is going on with all this money changing hands?
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    3:26pm
    Lawler is Abbotts good buddy Frank and not a union man. A bit like Mirabella and the dementia QC Howard isn,t it ?
    Anonymous
    10th Jul 2015
    5:49pm
    Frank don't you sometimes wonder about those who defend the racketeers .
    We have Shorten flying around the world in the Pratt family Jet staying at their whole floor apartment in NewYork . doing Deals at the Expense of workers to the benefit of Pratt and Liberman families . You have Richardson defending him . He of Alpine press that mysteriously burnt down And ended up with bank accounts in Switzerland and a packer mate etc etc etc etc these of course are the workers reps forget the fact they have never done a days work in the industry they represent .
    On the other side you have Abbott who takes out a mortgage to put his kids through school then is derided by the smarties ..
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    6:59pm
    These same defenders of the racketeers are calling for a RC into Political donations, but when they are uncovered by a RC say there's nothing untoward?
    Supernan
    10th Jul 2015
    1:21pm
    Obviously Bill Shorten, or actually his clerical team, made a mistake. In an election & after, no candidate would be doing their own figures ! It was not a cash donation, so not obvious in the figurework. It was a loan of an employee from a firm. Of course it should have been declared - someone missed it.
    The Commission sounded surprised it was only recently discovered & suggested it was only because of the Commission. Well, if I had a Comission to face, the first thing I would do, would be to double check everything ! & They did ! And found an omission. And notified the Commission. How many of us never make a mistake ! He did not lie to the Electors, make promises he didnt keep or persecute the poor pensioners !
    I remind comentators Miss Gillard was found not guilty.
    I think its a far worse to allow millionaires to pay no tax & take get money from the poor to make up the deficit, than to make a mistake in complex figures ! How many of you out there can read very complex financial records. My hubby did Trust Account Audits. Firms are required by law to have Trust Accounts Audited. Why ? Because people make mistakes !
    Does the Budget get properly Audit by qualified people ? No ! Which is why I dont believe the current Governments figures either !

    10th Jul 2015
    1:32pm
    If Shortchange can rationalise the below-award Cleanevent agreement on the basis that none of the operators in the industry observed the award, it raises issues of what the fair work commission is for and supposed to apply a no disadvantage test, but of course it accepts a stac dec from the racketeers.,of course the fair work commission is staffed by Labor fellow travellers including that wonderful example of Kathy Jacksons lover and on Compo for nine months in the last twelve and he is the second in command ..What a bunch ,.,

    And why would a company pay a union to keep the peace when, under the Fair Work Act, industrial action is only permitted during defined protected periods?
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    1:39pm
    Why would Abbott appoint Lawler, Jacksons partner to his position ? Poor judgement or another job for a mate. Still better than giving a character reference for a ped priest I suppose. Gotta love those Jesuits, give me a boy of seven and I will .....
    Young
    10th Jul 2015
    2:07pm
    Bill Shorten suffers badly from amnesia when it suits him.
    His ability to deny,deflect,ignore and avoid accountability is incredible.
    To see the huge dollars spent at large from the likes of Michael Williamson,Craig Thomson and Kathy Jackson is a disgrace.
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    3:03pm
    Shorten answered questions put to him. Unlike Downer or Vaille there was no I dont remember for every question. Unlike BOF there was no denial. Unlike Abbott there was no I forgot I had taken out a 700,000 dollar loan and put it in the parliamentary register. Unlike the HSU Shorten did not use money on personal indulgences or in fact gain any monetary gain. Shorten conducted union negotiations the way business, the coalition and the union movement in general thinks negotiations should be conducted. Without industrial strife and providing benefits to both union members and the employer resulting in continued employment and project completion.
    Browny I think you may suffer from lack of knowledge as you obviously have not watched the commission or read the transcripts. If you had you would not have posted as you have.
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    3:46pm
    geo, he was talking but he wasn't answering the questions. Shorten had to be reminded several times. You seem to have a direct link to Bill Shorten and an intimate knowledge of his activities? Are you and Bill that close?
    I don't think Australia should have a Prime Minister with those sorts of lapses in memory.
    If I was selling paper shredders my sales calls would be to Labor and Union people exclusively. I think the compact camouflage model would be a big seller.
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    4:02pm
    Frank
    The tv had the commission proceedings and google amongst other media assist in getting information. Unlike you I do not rely on vague assumptions or get stuff from Menzies House which seems to be your source of info.
    Abbott forgot repeat forgot to put a 700,000 grand loan on his registry. How on earth does a person forget a huge loan hanging over their head ? Guess he also forgot about his meetings with Pell until getting caught out lying on Lateline. The look on his face when that happened was telling. Why lie about meetings with a prominent catholic figure ? Pell was not as much on the nose then.
    See Frank I have knowledge about Abbott as well. What about Bernie Banton or the Hanson slush fund to jail her ? What about lying to the electoral commission regarding the donors to that slush fund that jailed Hanson ? See Frank according to you I must have a direct link to Abbott. That was your logic wasn,t it ?
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    4:36pm
    geo your 2 assertions below are either examples of blind love of Shorten or based on intimate knowledge???

    "Unlike the HSU Shorten did not use money on personal indulgences or in fact gain any monetary gain."
    You are sure about this??? Are you saying he acted differently while at the HSU???

    " Shorten conducted union negotiations the way business, the coalition and the union movement in general thinks negotiations should be conducted."
    You would need to be in the room at the time to know this??? You assume quite a lot with that statement.
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    5:14pm
    Frank
    I have no love blind or otherwise of any politician nor do I have intimate knowledge of them apart from whats available to anybody else in the Australian public.
    I was not aware Shorten was in the HSU can you provide more info on that ?
    As for negotiation when a prominent business leader amongst others lauds the way the AWU conducted itself and the outcomes how else to to assess them. On budget and on time without strikes with members getting full employment would be what all parties would want. Now I am not suggesting you would but the alternative is industrial strife, over budget and behind time.
    Frank you seem to have two ways of considering things. Your viewpoint and casting weird notions on others that do not align with yours. Try the third way and assess the results, ignore the bias and forgo the innuendo. It makes for better posts and comments while concentrating on the actual detail.
    Jen
    11th Jul 2015
    8:00am
    "I don't think Australia should have a Prime Minister with those sorts of lapses in memory. " Oh Frank, the irony.
    Adrianus
    11th Jul 2015
    9:29am
    "On budget and on time without strikes with members getting full employment would be what all parties would want."
    If this is what all parties want then what exactly does the union bring to the table? I mean to warrant these large costs to the employer?

    10th Jul 2015
    4:25pm
    Another issue in which the racketeers have cotton onto relates to the anti-competitive terms of negotiated EBAs , something to which the Australian Competititon & Consumer Commission just turns a blind eye. In the agreements that the AWU (and other unions) negotiate, there is one superannuation fund nominated to which the union is aligned. There is mandated income-protection insurance to be purchased from a company to which the union is aligned. There is sometimes provision for the engagement of workers from a labour-hire company to which the union is aligned.

    These provide handy extra sources of revenue to the union apart from dues. And then there is the exclusion of some employers from accessing favourable deals from unions because a prior deal has been done with their competitors. The shoppies and the construction union are past masters at this profoundly anti-competitive trick.

    Don't lets even mention the Thugs at CMEF better known as Hells Angles ..to whom privacy is an unknown concept .

    The racketeers own a party and will defend their monopoly that is why they spent all their funds on the 2007 election against choice but the " Workers " have voted with their feet . 88 do not belong to unions and would rather make their own arrangements . Like the award for instance .

    Poor Rudd was put up because he was Howard light " I am an economic rationlist " I will turn back the boats ""

    Poor mug he had his own racket of the privatised State owned work placement . Wouldn't let the racketeers in so was knifed .,,
    Adrianus
    10th Jul 2015
    4:47pm
    Pete he was knifed because he didn't keep up his part of the deal. His job was to win the election and retire sick, with heart issues, within 12 months. It was common knowledge on the streets of Melbourne before the election.
    Anonymous
    10th Jul 2015
    5:38pm
    The Band of brothers 2006 Crikey....
    http://www.crikey.com.au/2006/01/25/tracking-the-unionists-in-parliament/

    10th Jul 2015
    6:47pm
    amazingly geomac, as he or she stated, having no knowledge of the facts, but he or she gives his or hers opinion on this matter, all I can say keep believing the ABC and keep looking at the bottom of your garden, sooner or later you may see the fairy appearing telling you don't believe in tales, they are just tales.
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    7:32pm
    Thanks heems for a post that is at least readable. The ABC is consistently seen in various polls as the most trusted for good reason. I avail myself of a lot of media and search engines except newcorpse when it tosses in the paywall promo for a sub. I am careful with money and so do not waste it on trashy items.
    I check out the things I intend to post about so that I am solid ground. You seem to just post on the person ( me ) and ignore the topic. I am neither offended or flattered but encourage you to actually post on the topic. You could just copy and paste from the Australian or as seems to be the case the Tele would be your cup of tea.
    Anonymous
    10th Jul 2015
    9:26pm
    The Crikey seems to be your favourite Quote Geomac .. I have quoted them above .
    geomac
    10th Jul 2015
    9:37pm
    Where have I quoted Crikey in this thread ? Come to think of it where have I quoted Crikey at all lately.
    Anonymous
    10th Jul 2015
    11:44pm
    Geomac you have been on the disability allowance for years. . So stop telling those of us who pay tax how to spend our money..
    GFY
    Anonymous
    10th Jul 2015
    11:46pm
    If the ABC is so good what doesn't anyone watch it ..
    Anonymous
    10th Jul 2015
    11:58pm
    The thread about The alleged rapist Shorten t Thad's all ..
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    12:27am
    In your cups again I see.
    Misty
    11th Jul 2015
    10:47am
    Pete how do you know who does, or does not watch the ABC?, please tell me your source so I can check it out myself.
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    5:43pm
    So I used a Crikey quote in early 2014 ? Is that what you are saying ?
    " The Crikey seems to be your favourite Quote Geomac "
    No wonder I tend to ignore your ramblings. They just make very little sense. Wasted space instead of reasonable comment.
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    6:08pm
    Misty check out the Ratings across all four ABC channels . You could also check the other three Govt channels as well ...
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    9:53pm
    oz tam ratings for a week 1 2015

    abc abc 2 abc 3 abc 4

    8.9 4.7. 1,5 1.0.
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    1:44pm
    Pete Q&A had over a million viewers recently, Alan Jones about 150,000 listeners, so I know which one I would want to be on to get my point of view across.
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    1:59pm
    Why preach to the converted ..
    The truth is misty elections are not won by converting the rusted on .
    Election are decided by about 3 per cent of the electors who are swinging voters .
    Hawke had them the seining voters agreed with his modernising the economy Howard had them " Howard battlers " who were the tradies in Western Suburbs of Sydney .
    Abbott will have them as NsW is going gangbusters and the tradies are benefitting .
    The more the Rackteers in the Union movement ate a exposed the more the Tradies will vote liberal .
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    4:31pm
    Dream on Pete, so many shops in our town have closed since the Coalition came to power, I have lived here for 54 years and this has never happened before and this is a tourist town.
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    1:06am
    Age letters
    A witch-hunt against Labor and Shorten

    Fairfax has reported that donations linked to the Mafia were made to the Liberal Party. Also, that Tony Madafferi (who has no criminal convictions and denies any wrongdoing) and his associates lobbied Liberal MPs to get a visa for Madafferi's brother, Frank Madafferi, who police wanted to deport back to Italy because he was associated with the Mafia (The Age, 9/7). This makes the "witch-hunt" against Bill Shorten pale into insignificance. It is time royal commissions investigated important issues rather than being used for political denigration.

    Graeme Scarlett, Malvern East
    Adrianus
    11th Jul 2015
    6:17am
    geomac you obviously believe there is nothing wrong in Shorten and other union officials taking bribes. Your judgement has failed you badly on this occasion.
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    12:24pm
    Frank
    The 40 grand was for election work ie donation so no paper bags like ICAC libs. No 20 grand just to chat to Hockey or 60 grand to educate Abbott adult daughter. The donation is recorded and late or not nobody records a bribe.
    BTW did you answer my question regrading the HSU and Shorten ie he was AWU ?
    Adrianus
    11th Jul 2015
    1:21pm
    Are you referring to....
    "Unlike the HSU Shorten did not use money on personal indulgences or in fact gain any monetary gain."
    You are sure about this??? Are you saying he acted differently while at the HSU???
    geomac, are you saying Shorten was in no way connected to the HSU? My understanding was that he was called in to sort out the problems re Williamson, Thompson, Jackson. Shorten has always played a big hand in the HSU even when he was a Federal Minister.
    You will have plenty to concern yourself on Monday when we find out more about how the CFMEU operates.
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    2:17pm
    Simple question Frank. I said I was not aware Shorten was at the HSU and asked you to elaborate because I could find nothing about him working there.
    See you cannot make a statement saying Shorten was at the HSU when it is obviously wrong. As for Monday I imagine it is you who will have an interest rather than me. I responded to a thread on YLC on this topic. I assume like me you also go to YLC to participate in topics of interest although I usually just go to the meeting place.
    Misty
    11th Jul 2015
    2:47pm
    Frank can't wait for the RC into Mafia bribes, will be interesting to see what comes out and donations from the big end of town to the Coalition need checking into too, especially from the media and the mining section.
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    5:39pm
    When Labor get back into power and they have their own Royal Commissions there is one I would like to see investigated. Anyone remember Keating and his piggery deal with Indonesia. A google search will bring up the details for anyone who is interested or who has forgotten. Keating became a very rich man.
    wally
    11th Jul 2015
    5:49pm
    geo, your paper bag allusion in ICAC investigations refers to state matters in New South Wales. The Royal Commission is investigating union corruption as a federal matter. You appear to overlook the jurisdictional distinction between the NSW state and Commonwealth areas.

    The fact that Bill Shorten has been dragged into it so that his conduct as boss of the AWU before he became a parliamentarian is justified in light of the conduct of people like Craig Thomson and his misuse of his union credit card which destroyed his credibility and his political career. So far Bill Shorten's performance while he gives testimony does not inspire confidence in his innocence of any wrong doing and even his Labor mates in Caucus are wondering where all of this is going to lead in the run up to the next election.
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    6:46pm
    Wally
    There is no ICAC equivalent in federal govt but of course there should be. Are you suggesting that libs are are different breed on state matters than on federal matters ?You know as well as me that the commission is a witch hunt and most of the lawyers are from Brandis old firm earning very big bucks. Shorten is not Thomson and not even the commission has suggested or implied he used union money for personal gain by buying stuff. They have suggested or implied without proof that there may have been a conflict of interest which Shorten denied with vigour. I find it curious you pull me up on state and federal libs yet then go on to compare Shorten and Thomson. Very curious indeed.
    Adrianus
    11th Jul 2015
    6:56pm
    Misty, I would also like to see such an inquiry but it will never happen. Labor will never want to open the books. We know this because of the way they develop selective amnesia when giving evidence.

    11th Jul 2015
    5:57pm
    geomac, if You believe that , what You call, a donation and it was not a bribe, how come the workers of Unibuilt, were getting up to $25.00 dollars less an hour as was paid to the other cleaners employed by different firms on the same projects.
    Your quote about reading the Age newspaper, who just got fined by the courts thousands of dollars for defaming the treasurer, like him or not, and re: receiving donations by the libs. of the maffia, I can feel another defamation action coming on, as for You using the EUREKA flag to recognise your site, the gold diggers fought for their right to work and not to sit on their backside and collect Govt. money.
    Just follow my previous suggestion, go to the back of your garden and sooner or later you may see that Fairy you so believe in.
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    6:20pm
    heems
    Fairfax won two thirds of the defamation case because the article was deemed fair and accurate. Did you not notice that ? Hockey went for a million bucks and got 200,000 for the tweets and banner. There is yet to come the determination for costs which should be of interest.
    Now you have me confused regarding the Eureka flag. I have no site nor do I belong to one that uses the flag. I am unaware of a site that does though I guess a Ballarat one might. I use the flag because it represent a significant part of Australias history and the advancement of democracy in Victoria.
    So heems what is my site ?
    The 40 grand was a donation to an election campaign by shorten and was recorded as such. The 60 grand to Abbott was not recorded as such but presented as a sham scholarship that oddly was not available before or since and only one person was eligible, abbos daughter.
    I suggest to research the reason for the Eureka stockade as you seem poorly educated on the conflict.
    I would doubt that any suggestion by you would be worth following judging by your few posts so far one of which was total babble. Thanks for the offer anyway but I will leave you to indulge in fairies and pixies at the back of the garden. I am not a believer in such things.
    PS Almost forgot the mafia story is fact and defamation depends on a story being factually wrong or as in the Hockey case tweets not imbedded with the actual story. If you are going to comment on such things you really should educate yourself on them before posting.
    Jen
    11th Jul 2015
    6:51pm
    heemskerk99 "up to $25.00 dollars less an hour as was paid to the other cleaners"

    Are you sure? How much were the other cleaners being paid per hour?
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    7:37pm
    The award wage ...
    Shorten undercut the award wage to favour the Lieberman family he refused this deal to. The competitors . The deal was so goòd. That Spotless had to buy Cleanevent to compete .
    Great deal for the Lieberman family .
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    7:50pm
    The EBA that shorten did was so bad for the workers that when it came to light by The Royal commission that the current AWU bosses went to the Fair Work Commission and asked for it to be cancelled as it disadvantaged theOr members .
    Of course Shortchange and his friends the Lieberman family were long gone..
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    8:05pm
    What we have seen from the Royal commission and court cases. Is that whilst the racketeers are negotiating poor outcomes for their victims sorry members . They themselves have no controls and are diverting millions for their own use . The spotlight on The HSU is unbeilable and has resulted in jail terms for an ex president of the Labor party...
    Adrianus
    11th Jul 2015
    10:52pm
    Pete, I understand what you're saying. It makes you question the intellect of people who rail against the wealthy and follow blindly behind the Unions and their political party, ALP. Craig Thompson narrowly missed getting locked up. I think he may have caused the split between Gillard and Shorten, when he "crossed the line." Prompting Shorten's famous line....."I don't know what she said, but I sure like the way she said it." ;)
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    12:17pm
    No matter what spin people try to put on it Shorten is a sleeze...karma is coming for him.
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    12:43pm
    Radish if that is the case then there will be a few others along with him who will also find Karma will catch up with them, TA for one over this Q&A boycott, another nail in the Coalition coffin every time one of his party boycotts the program. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen but in this case what a bunch of sooky whining wimps this lot are, can't take any criticism can they,anyway no one is missing them, hope they continue the ban forever.
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    1:35pm
    Frank I don't think that is correct, I think Bill said something along the lines of " I don't know what she said but I support it anyway".
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    1:40pm
    I have to admit Radish it was a stupid thing to say and made Bill look foolish at the time.
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    9:02pm
    At the time!
    wally
    13th Jul 2015
    11:52am
    All the time!
    Misty
    13th Jul 2015
    8:58pm
    Couldn't possibly do any worse the that bumbling ahing and umming from another leader, who will ever forget the opening and closing of the mouth with nothing coming out when asked a question by a journalist at the time of the last election, most inept person ever to be a leader.

    11th Jul 2015
    6:16pm
    In Australia, during workplace bargaining the boss can pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to the union without the workers knowing. None of this is a problem. In fact, it is common practice, widely accepted and perfectly normal, because some bosses like unions and are keen to support them financially.



    When a union receives secret money from the boss during wage negotiations, this is not a conflict of interest and will not affect their advocacy efforts because modern union officials can walk and chew gum at the same time.



    The workers, even if they found out about the payments, wouldn’t care at all, even if the bargaining outcome was a terrible wages deal, a pay cut or job losses. If they found out, the workers would be proud because as union members they naturally all would be Labor voters and happy that, despite their personal losses, the secret money ended up with Labor.



    Finally, none of this is illegal, the Liberals are much worse towards workers than Labor, this Heydon royal commission is all just Tony Abbott’s witch-hunt, Dyson Heydon is simply doing his job, which is the Prime Minister’s bidding to damage Bill Shorten politically, and anyway, all of the Opposition Leader’s alleged behaviour was in the past, before he entered parliament.



    Welcome to the bizarre logic of those defending Shorten. These people, who must be blinded by their political convictions, are shielding and regularising immoral, unethical and abhorrent industrial relations practices. In some quarters of our society, a mass delusion appears to be operating: the indefensible is being stridently defended.



    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/shortens-defenders-ignore-heydon-royal-commission-evidence/story-fnkdypbm-1227437267080
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    6:23pm
    Copy and paste but no personal view or opinion. Fair enough easier to let others do your thinking.
    Adrianus
    11th Jul 2015
    6:54pm
    What a cracker of a post Pete. That puts it all into perspective!

    11th Jul 2015
    6:53pm
    There actuality is a topic being discussed here and it us not me . Your obfuscation of The facts surrounding Racketeers in Australia is ridiculous . You are obviously not a beneficiary of the rackets , as you state you are on the DSP so why defend the indefensible .
    Theses are crooks who took over legitimate Unions .. They are not workers they have never worked in the industries they now represent .
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    7:43pm
    " Geomac you have been on the disability allowance for years. . So stop telling those of us who pay tax how to spend our money..
    GFY "
    Once again you are misleading or just ignorant. You stated I am on DSP not me. I am 65 in a few months but that aside your comment needs scrutiny. So a person DSP or a pensioner for that matter can have no opinion on this forum only what you call taxpayers ? Hmmm to take your view further you must also consider only taxpayers should be allowed to vote. Now listen Ken err whatever your name is this week everybody can have an opinion and you are just a moniker on a free site with no more say than anyone else. In fact your attitude and copy and paste habits probably mean most people would scroll past your posts. I have found that practice rewarding time wise because it means I can read other posts where people say something instead of one liners or long copy and paste.
    Great night for the doggies with a ten goal last quarter to win. I forgot your not into anything Australian. No matter, pleased to share my good news even with such as you.
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    7:56pm
    Of course you are allowed to have your opinion whatever welfare benefit you are on . But I do find those that are in receipt of Government payments ( now over 50 per cent of the population) are the loudest screamers against those 88 per cent of the work force that have decided to manage their affairs without union help.
    Anonymous
    11th Jul 2015
    8:24pm
    Geomac I have again reported your personal attack that I post under various names .
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    8:24pm
    School children in receipt of govt payments. Patients in hospital the same, pensioners the same, doctors the same. Mining industry gets billions in tax and subsidy relief. Our PM gets more than the president of the USA which is a joke that is not funny. The loudest screamers are types like yourself and the evidence is in various posts. I respond to inaccurate statements or straight out lies which I believe need a response. Its your type who make them and then get upset when your tripe is exposed so you get personal. No problem because it exposes the fraudulent posts are not able to be defended by sound argument. Every time someone has a go at me instead of defending their comments they have forfeited their stance. Hard to combat a solid debating point but insults are like nothing. after all its just a moniker on a site, could be a Sims character.
    geomac
    11th Jul 2015
    9:37pm
    Personal attack ? Frank cops that every time I visit here which it must be said is not that often. So whatever your name is is a personal attack but you telling me I have no right to comment is ok ? Sensitive soul aren,t you ? Dish it out and get offended by a mere trifle. I cannot even find the post that you are talking about. Whats that make it now 200 reports against various members or am I being too conservative ? Wonder if Frank reacts the same way and puts in reports. We all use names here and some are amusing or inventive and some are just to promote a site and disappear.
    Thats the thing, if people stuck to the topic and refrained from personal attacks then no report function would be needed. I have been attacked on this thread various times but then again I am not a sook and refrain from reporting. I prefer to argue my point.
    Jen
    12th Jul 2015
    6:38am
    There will always be obnoxious people geomac. Give them as much oxygen as they deserve. None.
    Adrianus
    12th Jul 2015
    7:40am
    Jen you need to face up to the reality that some of us are humorous and some are not. Full marks for trying though.
    Your defence of Union rorting is close to being funny, if it weren't so sad in the light of day, considering it's impact on those they spuriously defend. What is funny is that, you are being taken for a ride and refuse to acknowledge it.
    Jen
    12th Jul 2015
    9:24am
    Frank, why do you tell such utter lies? You're the only person you're fooling. Tony Abbott may be able to tell lies and have people like you believe them, but we're not all that silly. I have actually never mentioned Unions. You just make things up to suit your stupidity. There's really no need for this unpleasantness.
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    10:58am
    Jen why divert this topic to Tony Abbott it is about Bill Shorten .
    My Complaint about Geomac was that he accused me of posting under the name of ken or whoever I am this Week .
    I objected to this slur as it is a continual tactic of Geomac .
    Adrianus
    12th Jul 2015
    12:06pm
    geomac I don't really need to be offended for those who offend and others who witness the offensive behaviour to know that they are being offensive. I'm not sure that the level of offensive behaviour should be solely judged by the intensity of the displeasure of the person who is offended. It's the behaviour of the perpetrator that is offensive, not the level of pain the victim endures, which should be judged. The free kick should be given for a fowl, not because a player is writhing in agony.
    I want to live in a country were 80% of us are offended when Shorten defends his acceptance of bribes by saying he didn't hurt the workers in any way by taking bribes, so there is nothing wrong with it. Of course the question will always remain....."could the workers have got a better deal if Shorten had said no to the bribe?"
    geomac
    12th Jul 2015
    1:22pm
    Well Frank I am offended by a self serving MP who books the taxpayer for a charity run while others do not. Claiming to be a selfless worker for charity while basking in the photo opportunities which is the actual aim of the pollie pedal and the proof being claiming it as a work expense. I want a PM who is Australian and not a faux aussie who would rather wave the union jack than an aussie flag. I guess thats why he uses our flag as a prop. Sorry uses an ever growing array of flags as a prop. 10 now I think. What Australian PM would consider a knighthood appropriate in the 21st century ? To top that what Australian PM would consider the top award for the stupid knighthood should go to a non Australian ?
    I can tell you one thing for certain Frank there is no way there would have been an inquiry into child abuse by priests if Abbott had a say in it. That offends me greatly. Another thing that offended me was his mock concern for four workers who died working on insulation while ignoring contractors illegal avoidance of H&S regulations. This from a man who vehemently opposes industrial manslaughter laws. Debt crisis gone because now Australia is 100 billion further in debt. Black is white and white is black.

    11th Jul 2015
    9:13pm
    This week, Shorten made a complete fool of himself. In the royal commission there were so many smoking guns one could hardly see the guns for the smoke. Despite this, Shorten made grandiose statements and delivered lectures about his motivations and operating methods when a union official. He took exaggerated, haughty offence at assertions made regarding his conduct and seemed not to realise his rambling responses would be catalogued alongside the documentary evidence.



    Any inconsistencies (and there were too many to count) between Shorten’s replies and the accepted evidence will be highlighted. These will then be relied on to assert that Shorten did not tell the truth and is an unreliable witness, and therefore the sworn evidence of other witnesses, where they contradict Shorten, is likely to be preferred.



    Some union secretaries would rather cut their hand off than accept money from an employer. But the picture that was built up this week, layer by painstaking layer, was of a union that abused its privileged position to make deals on behalf of workers that disadvantaged those workers in order to harvest an income stream from some businesses that were happy to pay for the commercial advantage the union delivered and assisted in disguising the payments.



    Broadly speaking, the pattern of conduct on display was this: enterprise bargaining agreements that financially benefited an employer, to the disadvantage of the employees, were reached. About the same time, money changed hands between the company and the Australian Workers Union. The money was hidden from the workers.



    It was the union’s responsibility to advise the workers on the merits of an EBA before they voted, and perhaps on how to vote, as well as conduct and count the vote. The workers may have been misinformed about the impact of the EBAs or even been denied a vote. Some EBAs were struck when no workers existed.



    The EBAs passed the crucial no-disadvantage test applied by the regulator (a mechanism to protect workers from being paid less than the award wage) because the union made the necessary assurances that no workers would be worse off. We heard how the union had an EBA certified by misleading the regulator about the adverse impact on the workers.



    If we are to accept the propositions being put by those defending Shorten, all of the above behaviour is acceptable.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/shortens-defenders-ignore-heydon-royal-commission-evidence/story-fnkdypbm-1227437267080
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    11:16am
    I wouldn't believe a word that The Australian or TDT print, or take it with a grain of salt, only seem to print things that favour the Liberals, both of them.
    geomac
    12th Jul 2015
    12:16pm
    Newscorpse Misty. An apt description. No wonder it is bleeding money ( The Australian ) .

    12th Jul 2015
    8:10pm
    What I really do not understand is why the two or three people on here see to support in Bill Shorten .
    The diversions to other issues are pathetic .
    Shorten spends his life with multi millionaires , marries their daughters , does deals that benefit fit them . Is at Total grub in his personal life ..
    What the heck is there to support ...
    geomac
    12th Jul 2015
    8:26pm
    What you fail to understand and probably never will is that people can and do have a different view to your biased view. Refuting allegations that are dressed up as facts is why we have courts etc instead of mob lynchings. The faux indignation expressed suddenly evaporates when confronted with lib malfeasance and bribes. Nothing to see here they cry. So its alright to cast smears when the target suits but improper to expose improper practices when its about libs ?
    None so blind as those ........
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    8:45pm
    Well interesting but what do think about the topic of Bill Shorten ?
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    9:01pm
    You know nothing about Bill Shorten's personal life Pete except the garbage you read in the biased papers, what right have you to call anyone a Total grub, I could say that about you, I know as much about your private life as you do about Bill Shorten's private life.
    Adrianus
    12th Jul 2015
    9:09pm
    Why did Bill Shorten want to keep secret the name of a person who worked on his election campaign ???
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    9:37pm
    Geez frank it was a uni built employee . They contributed ;;
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    9:42pm
    It was.Bills campaign manage .Didnt you know that employers love unions so much they will give their employees time off to help their mate bill ..
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    9:44pm
    It was a safe seat wonder why they bothered...
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    9:46pm
    My guess is that the racketeers wanted one of their own
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    9:48pm
    Hope bill enjoys his private jets ...
    geomac
    12th Jul 2015
    11:37pm
    Misty
    These are the same types who reckon they had proof that would hang Gillard. Pickering acolytes which basically is all that needs to be said. After numerous accusations, questions and even the commission Gillard once again showed them to be empty vessels making a lot of noise.
    Anonymous
    13th Jul 2015
    12:02am
    Do really support Shorten?
    Anonymous
    13th Jul 2015
    12:08am
    Great site finally some who have common sense ...
    Misty
    13th Jul 2015
    1:38am
    Talking to yourself Pete, no body else is listening only maybe Frank.
    Adrianus
    13th Jul 2015
    7:45am
    Some of us need to sleep. Pete it wasn't a unibuilt employee, it was an ex HSU employee who is now with the Victorian Police Minister's Office. I still don't get it? But I think Fiona and Bill have attracted enough attention for Fiona to now get more involved with the TURC?
    wally
    13th Jul 2015
    12:04pm
    Hi Misty and Geo. Perhaps the "garbage" we are fed about your saintly Mr Shorten in the "biased" media is because nobody in the ABC/Fairfax axis can find anything praiseworthy to say about Mr Shorten. Perhaps you can take it upon your good selves to extoll Mr Shorten's virtues for us. For example, you could tell us he hasn't stabbed anyone in the back today or dumped his wife for another woman.
    Misty
    13th Jul 2015
    9:12pm
    Wally unless you personally know for a fact that Bill Shorten dumped his wife for another woman I would be careful what I write, you can't always believe what you read in the papers we don't know anything about his previous marriage only what the media tells us.
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    8:20am
    If it came from the ABC then it must be true, right?
    geo, why do you think Gillard is off the hook?
    Let's wait for the RC to conclude and deliver findings.
    It is becoming more apparent to me that it was Shorten, not Gillard who was offering support of Williamson and Thompson, and anyone else connected to the HSU. I think Commissioner Heydon should bring Shorten back to not only respond to connections to the CFMEU but also clarify his involvement with the HSU? I would also like to see Gillard back to answer more questions relating to the "AWU Workplace Reform Association."

    12th Jul 2015
    8:52pm
    What I find interesting is that for once the YLC Fairfax ABC Greenie Inner city view is in the minority on this thread .
    It is not a matter of left or right. But right or wrong .?
    Misty
    14th Jul 2015
    10:18am
    Pete I don't know why you even bother to come on this site, why not stick to The Australian and DT and Sky News, I am sure you will find they suit your Right Wing views a lot better.

    12th Jul 2015
    9:06pm
    If we are to accept the propositions being put by those defending Shorten, all of the above behaviour is acceptable.

    Does this mean that if Shorten becomes our prime minister, this model of industrial relations practice will be accepted and apply across our system? Do we want to live in a country where people know their boss will pay off their union and as a result they will get a terrible wages deal? It seems a ludicrous proposition, but if this conduct was acceptable in the past, why not continue it into the future and apply it across every workplace in the country?

    Plenty of employers would be happy with that.

    In the public arena, there is a line in the sand being drawn right now, and people will have to pick a side. This is not about Liberal v Labor, Right v Left or legal v illegal. This is about right v wrong.

    The vast majority of the community will find it very easy to recognise the side of right and instinctively will choose it. Those who want to stand on the side of wrong will be judged very harshly by the community and by history. The final report of the royal commission, with all its consequences, is coming at us like a freight train.
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    9:08pm
    Personally written by a right wing facist
    Misty
    12th Jul 2015
    11:25pm
    I know who I prefer and that is not someone who breaks election promises, lies and makes Captain's Picks that has his party at loggerheads with him, get the picture Pete?.
    Anonymous
    13th Jul 2015
    12:06am
    Sure Misty as I am not a liberal supporter they play the game of too much tax .. Tell me what promises has the coalition broken .. 6 per cent rise in Education and health ..rise for pensioners . Get rid of the carbon tax . Stop the boats. ..
    wally
    13th Jul 2015
    11:49am
    Misty, your memory appears to have fogged up! Julia Gillard broke election promises regarding the Carbon Tax we were not going to have. Then there was her Captain's Pick ousting a long standing Labor senator in the Northern Territory in favour of (was it Parris Kneebone or somebody, the female Aboriginal athlete)? And as far as being at logger heads with her party membership, didn't she get the Royal Order of the Boot in favour of Kevin Rudd in 2013?

    So did you prefer a certain Prime Minister that broke promises, made Captain's picks and was at logger heads and wound up getting the boot in 2013?
    Misty
    13th Jul 2015
    8:53pm
    You obviously must be deaf and blind and have your head in the sand, no cuts to the ABC for one, no changes to health, no new tax's well what about the stealth tax on health, changes to the rebatesfor Dr's visits, changes to super for the people on lower incomes, just go to the ABC Fact Checker I think it is about 12 broken promises so far but then a Rght Wing whatever you call your self would never believe that anyway.
    Misty
    13th Jul 2015
    9:00pm
    Wally I am not talking about the past I am talking about the 2 current leaders.
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    7:46am
    Misty, you know very well that those intentions of Abbott were manifested with the understanding of a budget deficit of only $18b. It was extremely childish of the Unions to leave such a mess for purely political reasons. Australia will judge that very harshly indeed!

    12th Jul 2015
    9:57pm
    Hey Frankdid you know that unions are such a big business that they don't need members . So have to invent them so they have a say at Labor cinferenc
    Anonymous
    12th Jul 2015
    10:07pm
    Don't you love the killing fields ..Bob Hogg ex president of the ABC/ALP and mc Kews husband "Go Bill you can't defend the indefensible.."
    Adrianus
    13th Jul 2015
    8:11am
    They don't need members? Or they don't need members who have an opinion?
    In reality it was the Unions riding on the back of the sheep not all of Australia.
    There were SOME people who thought it strange when Saddam Hussein won elections convincingly with 96% of the vote.
    Do you suppose we have now seen the completion of Labor's democratisation?
    wally
    13th Jul 2015
    11:40am
    Of course the unions do not need those pesky members. As long as they can do as Shorten did (and cut sweet heart deals with the employers that puts money into the union bank accounts), every thing is sweet. Especially when you can get away with lying to the union membership and tell them you are looking after their financial benefits and sell them out at the same time.

    Nobody dumber than a rank and file unionist unless it is a "true Believer".
    Adrianus
    16th Jul 2015
    8:36am
    And when the members get a little restless they wheel out Bob to lead in the chorus of "solidarity forever." Trouble is that 1915 popular song is about as relevant as the tree of knowledge for Australians today living in the 21st century. These days people want law and order, they want security and prosperity. They want those who are down and out to be given a helping hand. And they don't want crooks being the top feeders.
    geomac
    13th Jul 2015
    2:27pm
    Network channel share:

    Nine (30.8%)
    Seven (28.5%)
    Ten (18.5%)
    ABC (16.3%)
    SBS (5.8%)
    Network main channels:

    Nine (26.0%)
    Seven (20.0%)
    Ten (13.2%)
    ABC 1 (12.8%)
    SBS ONE (4.7%)
    geomac
    14th Jul 2015
    12:31am
    'Extraneous' remarks?

    In Commissioner Dyson Heydon's summary of hearings at the trade union royal commission last year, he commented that Julia Gillard's "intense degree of preparation, her familiarity with the materials, her acuteness [and] her powerful instinct for self-preservation" made it difficult to judge her credibility as a witness (The Age, 20/12/14).

    No one with any regard for language, rhetoric, logic or forensic rectitude could find that statement acceptable. The self-preservation instinct is common within the animal kingdom. Preparedness and acuteness can scarcely of themselves be held to undermine credibility.

    Last week Commissioner Dyson found that Bill Shorten's over-lengthy replies to questions similarly cast doubt on his "credibility". The learned commissioner might well ask himself whether his own off-the-cuff remarks could be considered (to use his own word) "extraneous".

    Harvey Mitchell, Castlemaine

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-letters/the-protected-industry-the-dinosaur-of-coal-20150713-giaze5.html#ixzz3fmXWPTyu
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    8:46am
    geomac, I'm surprised you didn't see this article in the Guardian?
    Counsel-assisting Jeremy Stoljar questioned Elias Taleb throughout the (yesterday) morning, but there were no representatives for the union present.

    The 35-year-old company owner detailed how he gave more than $135,000 to a CFMEU organiser named as Fihi – who is now no longer part of the union – during 2012 and 2013 to secure jobs in the capital.

    He also paid the membership dues of his workers, which sometimes numbered up to 50, fearing if he did not he would be kicked off projects.

    Some of his employees did not want anything to do with the union, he said, explaining how at times he was made to sign their membership forms himself.

    Over the next two years, Taleb paid the union organiser thousands of dollars in order to secure work, which he said would otherwise have gone to rival companies.

    For one residential unit project in Yarralumla, he said he was made to pay $50,000 in cash instalments.

    When asked by Stoljar if he knew what happened to the money he gave to the union, Taleb said “no”.
    geomac
    14th Jul 2015
    9:28am
    Frank
    Why surprised ? This thread is about Shorten and the commission which is what I have commented on. Is the Guardian required reading in your circles ?
    Actually you might be able to help me. Remember Haliburton and the Iraq war who was the VP at that time ? The reason I ask is because I see a similarity of sorts in that Brandis old firm has the bulk of the 8 million odd work. Still its a lawyers banquet so plenty to go round.

    14th Jul 2015
    9:58am
    Can't blame poor old Shortchange it's common practise don't ya know ,

    "It's, it's common practice, indeed every union has what it refers to as a re-election fund, slush fund, whatever" Julia Gillard
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    10:05am
    Just common. Practise by the carpetbaggers ....

    the former federal president of the labor party, Michael Williamson, is serving a hefty term in jail after pleading guilty to ripping off staggering amounts of his members' money when he was head of the NSW branch of the Health Services Union.
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    10:17am
    I suspect only Williamson will know the full extent. But it wasn't members money apparently. Yes that's right, the unions don't take members money. The money apparently comes from their "friends" in big business. geomac will know about all that I suspect, given the flag he waves.
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    10:23am
    Then Kathy Jackson "The clean Skin" steps in and does the exact same thing . It's common practise so it's oK ..
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    11:00am
    Oh no, not another one crossing the line??? I want to talk to the line marker.
    Misty
    14th Jul 2015
    1:09pm
    Well Pete and Frank if you were both hoping for a bump up in the polls for the Coalition after Bill Shorten's appearance at the RC you would both be bitterly disappointed with today's Essential Poll, admittedly BS'S approval has gone down but so to has TA'S, and Labor is still in front by 4 points in the 2 party preferred, 52-48.
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    1:15pm
    The last essential poll I know of was the 5th of July which showed labor in front with green support . And Shortchange on a lower apporaval tha Abbott .

    14th Jul 2015
    10:18am
    What a crowd and to think this gang led the country.

    "Legal correspondence obtained by The Australian shows that Ms Roxon, "Bill Shortens lover at the time" as a solicitor for Maurice Blackburn & Co, a Melbourne law firm, worked on the AWU's legal files after Ms Gillard's departure from Slater & Gordon.

    Ms Gillard left the firm after an internal probe by the partnership had considered terminating her for not having observed her "duties of utmost good faith to (her) partners" during her work for the AWU.

    The controversy, amid police investigations into the alleged siphoning of hundreds of thousands of dollars by Ms Gillard's then boyfriend and client, AWU boss Bruce Wilson, led to the union's legal work being transferred to Maurice Blackburn."



    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/investigations/nicola-roxon-worked-on-files-after-julia-gillard-left-slater-gordon/story-fn6tcxar-1226456182194
    student
    14th Jul 2015
    10:50am
    Pete, are you trying to destroy the reputation of people? Ms. Gillard has been cleared of any misdoing by a court when employed by Slater and Long. As for

    ... " ... "Legal correspondence obtained by The Australian shows that Ms Roxon, "Bill Shortens lover at the time..." I find that very hard to believe. It was reported by The Australian for Pete's sake! I researched the Slater and Gordon accusation by speaking with a solicitor at Slater and Gordon. Ms. Gillard did nothing wrong. Legally or morally.
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    11:09am
    Ms Gillard has not been cleared by any court,
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    11:10am
    Ms Gillard has not been cleared by any court,
    Jen
    14th Jul 2015
    11:58am
    Stop perpetrating lies Pete. Gillard has no case to answer. Otherwise she'd be locked up, not free as a bird at the end of the Royal Commission Smear Campaign. Unlike Abbott, when, if there's a God, comes before a court, a Royal Commission or The Hague for....just about everything.
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    12:28pm
    It is not the end of the Royal Commission it has yet to issue its report . MS Gillard being a layer like shorten know how to use the I do not recall ...
    student
    14th Jul 2015
    10:33am
    McCarthyisn is alive and flourishing in Australia. What a sad and frightening state of affairs.
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    10:36am
    So is apathy.
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    10:53am
    Perhaps you would care to shake of your Apathy Student and explain why you think it is OK to rip off our lowest paid ....
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    10:59am
    Theses gangs have not only taken over Unions they have taken over Parliment with over 50 per cent of Labor MPs being ex union bosses the rest having to belong to a union ...So they pass laws to the benefit of unions and block legislation that try to excerpt some control .
    There must be
    A reason that so few belong to unions and even these small numbers are questionable as we now see numbers are invented ..
    geomac
    14th Jul 2015
    12:38pm
    Student
    Its rather odd that an inquiry into the finance industry is fobbed off by the govt despite proven malfeasance being widespread. In fact regulations have been relaxed.He who pays the piper. Same with the energy industry. This topic is about Shorten and the commission but two individuals seem to have trouble focusing on that topic. They also seem to have trouble with the truth but are relaxed about rumour and casting aspersions.
    Your remark about McCarthyism has merit.
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    1:23pm
    Interestingly Essential Polls put Shorten at only 27% as preferred PM. I think Rudd was at 37% when "Labor had lost their way" and needed to "go forward" as we were told by Gillard. Labor's preference votes are now almost as high as their primary votes. Information from the RC into Trade Union Corruption is starting to filter through to the average Aussie.
    geomac, do you have any idea why the CFMEU bosses didn't show up at the TURC?
    Misty
    14th Jul 2015
    1:46pm
    Behind the times Frank, the latest poll is out today and as I said the PM is also down and yet Labor is still 4 points in front 52-48.
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    1:55pm
    Support for Bill Shorten has dropped to its lowest level since he became Opposition Leader, a new poll shows.

    In the latest Essential poll, 52 per cent of voters disapproved of the job Mr Shorten was doing, which was up seven per cent on June.

    Prime Minster Tony Abbott’s approval rating was also down, but still 10 points higher than Mr Shorten’s, Sky News reported.

    • Shorten takes polling hit after royal commission appearance
    • ‘Bring on an early election, Abbott’
    • Shorten grilled as others escape

    Looking at the net approval numbers, Mr Shorten was now behind the PM on minus 25 per cent.

    Mr Abbott is at minus 16 per cent.

    Mr Abbott retains his hold on the preferred PM rating, with 37 per cent of people saying he would make the better prime minister, while Mr Shorten garnered just 30 per cent, Sky News reported

    On the primary vote, the Coalition maintained its lead with 41 per cent. Labor dropped one per cent, with 38 per cent of the votes.

    In terms of two-party preferred, Labor still leads the Coalition 52-48, unchanged since June.

    On Monday, a Roy Morgan poll revealed support for Mr Shorten had fallen following his appearance last week at the Royal Commission into unions.
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    1:58pm
    http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2015/07/14/shortens-approval-stoops-record-low/
    geomac
    14th Jul 2015
    2:00pm
    Frank
    Last I read Shorten was ahead as preferred PM and that both leaders were on the nose with low approval ratings. I think from memory the split was 53 -47 in Labor favour two party preferred from essential with ipsos and Morgan much the same give or take.
    Now Frank why would I know why anyone did or did not attend TURC ? I am not a lawyer or member of a union that has skin in the game . I am not a lawyer or a union member period. Very strange attitude in asking me these hypotheticals as if you were Geoffery Robertson. I give my views or rebut falsehoods if it interests me to do so and if thats not enough for you stiff cheddar. Like you I am just one of many forum members that responds to topics or just peruses them without comment. Maybe you should apply to join the Q&A audience and ask a question of a panelist to satisfy your random questions at someone who might have skin in the game.
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    2:15pm
    Pete, it is interesting that support for Shorten is dropping off faster than support for his party? What do you make of that?
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    2:25pm
    The BLF sorry the CFMEU were not called .. When they are they will have to appear ..Their PR release was just a stunt..,
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    2:28pm
    Frank most people are not interested in politics but vote with a vague impression of what's best for their pocket . The impression that Labor is not good for their pocket will grow as we move towards the next election some 18 months away...
    Anonymous
    14th Jul 2015
    2:36pm
    To see what centre right governments can achieve you only have to look at NSW or UK . Imagine what a real right wing government could do..
    Unfortunately at the federal level this govt is impeded by the Senate and the Nats. ..
    Misty
    14th Jul 2015
    6:15pm
    Pete if people vote with their pocket I cannot see how this current Federal Govt could ever be elected again, consumer confidence is still down, why in our town alone 5 shops have closed since the Abbott Govt came to power, not much confidence in our town I can tell you. Never happened before in the 54 years I have lived here.
    Anonymous
    15th Jul 2015
    9:41am
    Frank Queenslanders are learning already .. Deficit what deficit just move it to the electricity companies who will have to recoup it in higher charges ..
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    10:20am
    QLD has a fall in payroll tax revenue, which is a good indication that the real job creators, the private sector, are struggling. Regardless, the irresponsible ALP want to rip more off households and the private sector in order to repay the public sector union members for their votes. Pathetic economic vandals.
    geomac
    14th Jul 2015
    3:39pm
    But what, I hear you ask, has the $61 million committed to the Trade Union Royal Commission delivered the Australian taxpayer?

    On one hand, it has shown that in industries like construction where workers still die on the job, the union bargains tough in a tough environment and sometimes crosses the line of polite behaviour. One of the major outrages has involved a union allegedly crossing that line to pursue an employer who had been refusing to pay its members' superannuation.

    It has also uncovered the shocking fact that trade unions have lent funds to the political party it established to promote the interests of its members.

    And in recent days it has shown that the Opposition Leader comes from the non-militant wing of the Labor movement, where the culture of cooperation and accommodation with employers goes all the way back to the Cold War.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-14/lewis-shorten-suffers-a-61-million-hit-to-his-approval-ratings/6618832
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    3:52pm
    Labor and the ABC want you to believe that they are now frugal. ha ha ha!!!
    Labor spent that and more every 12 months just flying asylum seekers between overcrowded detention centres. Don't be fooled geo.
    geomac
    14th Jul 2015
    4:02pm
    Frank
    I put up that post just for you. Its from Essential. You are a strange one. You promote Essential polling yet when I provide the briefing from Essential you mock it. I am starting to doubt your motives when posting or asking asinine questions.
    Anonymous
    15th Jul 2015
    9:42am
    I put up for all the real Essential poll on 14 July at 1.55
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    10:38am
    If an employer doesn't pay super to employees the ATO will know about it and penalise accordingly. What roll does the union play in this?

    14th Jul 2015
    6:44pm
    geomac are you really so committed to your beloved labour party that you can't see the corn from the chaff or do you put your coloured glasses on so you just get some attention and hope they may offer you a seat in parliament.
    you, misty and jen should go and live in the real world instead of looking for the fairies in your back garden.
    Adrianus
    14th Jul 2015
    7:49pm
    heemskerk99, it is people like those you have mentioned, who are rusted on to the Unions, these people, and I include mick, who are Australia's real problem. They have a fealty for Shorten or who ever leads the Unions. Why do they keep making excuses? I think I would prefer Gillard to Shorten. At least Gillard knew when the line was crossed. Richo said on his program, Thompson actually believed it wasn't him using the credit card on the hookers. It was someone else who looked like him and could copy his signature perfectly.
    This is the mental capacity of those we oppose.
    geomac
    14th Jul 2015
    9:33pm
    Heems you seem committed to addressing me. Oh and your obsession with fairies as well.
    Misty
    15th Jul 2015
    10:52am
    Heemskerk for goodness sake spell Labor properly, and I don't know what sort of a world you live in, a fantasy one obviously if you believe in fairies. You lot cannot take a bit criticism of your party can you but until you get rid of TA as leader you better get used to it, if the polls keep going the way they are and he keeps making these stupid Captain's Picks then his party will replace him before the next election, he knows he is a leader on borrowed time only. You can fling all the mud at Shorten and Labor that you like but they are not in government and don't have to answer to the Australian people like the present Federal Government does.
    Jen
    15th Jul 2015
    1:14pm
    Highly intelligent post heemskerk99. For you.
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    10:32am
    Should the NTEU donate $1m of union members money to the Greens?
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    6:19pm
    Well Frank they should if they want their vote on IR laws.

    15th Jul 2015
    6:01pm
    here we go again, shortie, alias bill the knive, always in the back, has promised to get the carbon tax back if labor (labour) wins the next election, not only that but also to put a tax on the electricity producers, forgetting that the first thing they, the electricity producers, will do is to charge the users double!!!!!!!!, but than again brains are hard to find in the labor party , they are like hen's teeth and if they could find any, highly unlikely, that is brains, they will declare a public holiday to celebrate this miracle, in Victoria they declared a public holiday for not finding any, brains, to celebrate a football's grand final eve, cost to the community about 1 (one) billion dollars, will generate less than 3 (three) million dollars, but than again, accountancy was never high up in labor's list of priorities, to become a member of to-days labor hierarchy you have to show you can be a stand over man for the unions and not for their members, I call them the modern mafia and shorten is one of them. he sh.t on his members, just so he could get more power in the a.l.p
    Jen
    15th Jul 2015
    6:06pm
    heemskerk99, get your facts right. It was never a tax. That's just a bit of tired old LNP-speak. It was a price on carbon and it was reducing pollution and bringing in millions. It was your idiotic idol who decided that wasn't a good idea.
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    6:17pm
    I'll tell you something else about taxes. oops, I mean prices. The biggest 12 companies in Australia pay 50% of company prices.
    Jen
    15th Jul 2015
    6:21pm
    What are you talking about Frank?
    Anonymous
    15th Jul 2015
    6:50pm
    Jen it is very simple it is s tax on energy use
    Anonymous
    15th Jul 2015
    6:52pm
    If you wish to pay more for energy to save the world Ok but I don't
    Jen
    15th Jul 2015
    7:00pm
    Pete it is NOT tax. It's a levy on polluters. The use of the word "tax" is devious and a lie, created by the LNP, which you are happy to perpetrate. Secondly, haven't you yet realised you're already paying more for your energy than you were before the LNP removed the price on carbon. Amazing that a grown man would believe the LNP when they said you'd get an extra $550 in your pocket on cheaper power bills!
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    8:02pm
    Jen the ACCC produced that savings figure of $550.
    geomac
    15th Jul 2015
    8:22pm
    How come my utility bills are not cheaper but in fact are more expensive ? I am not using more power or gas.
    Anonymous
    18th Jul 2015
    10:21pm
    The reason your utilities bill is higher is that labor brought it a RET target of 20/20
    The current govt tried to hold the target to this but Labor insisted on a rise to 25/20
    It would be higher with a carbon tax

    15th Jul 2015
    6:48pm
    oh my god, jen now tells me I donated the carbon tax on my own free will, as I said before, the likes of jen, etc should return to the back garden and talk to the fairies or wipe their coloured glasses, or ask mick for advice, same person as jen, probably to busy on another discussion on life choices sprouting the virtues of the labor party, jen, to say it was not a Tax but brought in millions of dollars, jen, my advise to you, see a person with two eyes and brains, take your coloured glasses off and listen to people who are not brainwashed by your beloved labor party.
    Jen
    15th Jul 2015
    7:03pm
    heemskerk99 Please, spout all the rubbish you want but do NOT state lies about me.
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    8:05pm
    Labor, it's not just a party, its a way of life.

    15th Jul 2015
    7:58pm
    jen, I am not stating lies about you, I just feel sorry for you to be the bunny for the labor party and you not having the brains to wake up, hopefully one day you will, wake up and realize how you was used to promote putting the unions ahead of the workers so to promote bill shorten as opposition leader, I have never seen the union members more right in choicing the scotch bloke as their leader, however the party, stand over men, felt more secure with schorty, we can buy em all, good luck australia, the choice is yours, become greece or survive, don't complain when australia goes down the gurgler
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    8:10pm
    Greece has got assets, like their 1200 ilsands to sell. What could we get for Tasmania after a few decades of Greens mismanagement. Crikey, you cant move down there for trees.
    Jen
    15th Jul 2015
    8:28pm
    Heemskerk99. Nowhere have I said I am a Labor voter because I am not. You are a liar. You make things up as you go along much like your idol, Tony Abbott. And you write in a similar childish vein, as well. Sadly, you're willingly brainwashed and I think you're a waste of oxygen. I'll leave you with your delusions.
    Misty
    15th Jul 2015
    8:42pm
    Heemskerk99 and Frank, so much for the LNP bringing confidence to this country, business confidence may be up but according to 2 bank reports, one said Consumer confidence is the worst for 7 months and another said the worst for 2 years, no good business confidence being up if consumers are not buying is it, all on TA''s watch .
    Adrianus
    15th Jul 2015
    9:04pm
    Misty, you seem pretty happy that the economy is struggling to get growing.
    Misty
    15th Jul 2015
    9:12pm
    No Frank I am not happy at all, means NO NEW JOBS doesn't it and unfortunately quite a few sackings so why would anyone be happy with that, LNP , Labor, Greens and Independents? you would have to be a nut to be happy with that outcome wouldn't you.
    Abby
    16th Jul 2015
    6:20pm
    The Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption got another scalp today

    Kivalu, also a former Labor Party sub-branch president, is at the centre of bribery allegations.

    On Monday, formwork contractor Elias Taleb gave evidence Kivalu accepted $135,000 from him in instalments, for access to the Canberra construction market.

    Today Kivalu admitted to the corruption inquiry that he accepted only $60,000 from Mr Taleb, using it to play the pokies.
    Adrianus
    16th Jul 2015
    7:26pm
    Using the money to play the pokies uh? Well that is probably more believable than burying in shoe boxes under a tree to find the worms turned it to garden fertilizer. I'm pleased Tony Abbott kept his pre election promise to hold this TURC.

    16th Jul 2015
    6:27pm
    misty and jen, you realy need some more teaching of your beloved leader, labor mick, at the moment he is to busy on another article of life choises, sprouting his labor ideas, however I'am sure he will come to your assistance as you are the same person, acting as a alias for labor mick. as for jen to tell me I'am brainwashed, I take that as a compliment from a to-days cloned labor member. as for misty's opinion of the Australian economy, would you not be frighten, the victorian labor broke a contract for the east-west link, which by the way has cost the victorian taxpayer more than one billion dollars in compensation, as I said before, labor now-a-days can never be trusted, breaking promises is their fact of life now, how I longed for the days of honest labor leaders, the likes of Arthur Caldwel, Beasley, Hawk even Whitlam with all his faults, had the good of Australia foremost in their mind, maybe they were to early for you to see true labor leaders, now you have shortie, the knive thrower, in charge, walking over the workers back, just so he could better himself, let alone the other union leaders who were only there to look after their own interest, thompson, williams etc. misty and jen keep believing in them and when Australia goes down the gurgler be proud to be a member of that crowd.
    Adrianus
    16th Jul 2015
    7:29pm
    Good post!!!
    Misty
    16th Jul 2015
    8:43pm
    I really do think you are living in a different reality to us heemskerk99, this present LNP Government is considered the worst government ever by so many people of all persuasions not just Labor, I really do think it is time you came out and start to live in the real world, today I heard another shop is closing in our town, 6 since this government came to power and as for lies and broken promises just go to Fact Checker to get the no that TA has broken but then since that is an ABC product I suppose you won't believe that either.

    17th Jul 2015
    12:05pm
    We should follow the Europeans and demand the Mendicant States of SA and Tasmania get their house in Order. start with SA wasting our money on wind ..

    17th Jul 2015
    12:50pm
    Keep Bill Shorten in the job .
    Bill Shorten – shifty, uninspiring, totally unsuited to stand where Curtin and Whitlam, Hawke and Keating once stood – is, despite this, still in the game. Imagine what might happen if Labor had a leader who was any good?

    17th Jul 2015
    7:31pm
    misty I can assure you I live in the real world, are you? my question to you is when was the last time you did your shopping in that shop closing down, what kind of shop is it, in melbourne many shops closed their doors when labor was in government, the extra cost of the carbon tax necked most of them. since the abolishing of that carbon tax many shops have reopened, but shorty, alias bill the knive, revealing it be back, this carbon tax, if they, labor, wins the next election, it will put the dead knell on most of them, wake up australia, we can't afford to kill off our local businesses, they are the lifeblood of our economy, our children's employers and the future of AUSTRALIA. a vote for labor means to become another greece, see what they have done to victoria, paid out just on 1 billion dollars (1000000000)for not building a road, more than 2 to 3 million dollars to stop a hotel by breaking the lawful contracts for these projects and so it goes on, they now say that to pay a loan, $18000000000.== off in 60 years, the desalination plant, built by labor, and as it is normal by labor's standards, over time and over budget by millions, will be cheaper than to pay it off in 30 years, wonder which school they went to, yet you have the likes of misty etc. who believe the sun shines out of labor's ar..


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