Tax cuts at next federal election

Joe Hockey announced that he would like to promise tax cuts at the next federal election.

Treasurer Joe Hockey announced this week that he would like to promise tax cuts at the next federal election. Economists have been quick to react in issuing warnings to the Abbott Government, suggesting that taxes should not be cut until the budget returns to surplus or more revenue is raised.

John Daley from the Grattan Institute believes that without serious proposals to increase revenues, the budget could be put under more strain. Mr Daley also believes that without these new sources of revenue, the tax cuts would need to be funded by future surpluses.

Mr Daley noted that achieving a budget surplus by 2018–19 looks “extremely unlikely” and that further cuts to funds for state schools and hospitals would be the only way the government could cut taxes without negatively affecting the budget.

“The test for tax cuts should be not that we might be in surplus sometime in the distant future but that we are in surplus in the current budget year,” said Mr Daley.

Mr Daley’s comments were also reinforced by former Reserve Bank board member Warwick McKibbin who warned that it wasn’t a good idea to pursue tax cuts if those cuts would expand the deficit.

Read more at Sydney Morning Herald.

Opinion: Smart economics or playing politics?

Australia’s budget deficit and financial troubles compared with other OECD countries may just be a drop in the ocean, but according to financial modelling carried out by PricewaterhouseCoopers, federal government debt is expected to reach $1 trillion by 2037 unless urgent action is taken to fix the federal budget.

Australia may be at the lower end of the debt to GDP ratio by country, but a 2014 IMF survey of 17 OECD nations showed Australia’s growth in net debt is the third highest of those nations surveyed.

Treasurer Joe Hockey has shown his true colours this week in suggesting the promise of a tax cut at the next federal election. It’s time to stop playing politics and to focus on building an economically sustainable Australia for the present and for the future.

What do you think? Is it reckless of Joe Hockey to announce his wish to promise tax cuts at the next election? Or is this a tactic you have come to expect of every treasurer heading into an election?





    COMMENTS

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    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    10:11am
    Here we go again. Hockey delivering the next election campaign lie? Does this sound like the Paid Parental Leave bribe...which of course never happened. Funny that.
    I thought that the country was in financial difficulties and that we needed to borrow money from foreigners???? So how would tax cuts fix this problem?
    This is just the next lie for mentally challenged Australians to swallow. The only tax cuts Hockey will ever deliver is to the rich. That is what this crew do.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    10:32am
    mick, you really need to stop being so negative. Have a look at the "tax switch" of the Key Government in New Zealand.
    Wstaton
    21st Jul 2015
    11:22am
    I wish people will stop using what other countries do an excuse to what we should do here.we have done that before and then found a few years later that the other countries have abandoned them as unworkable.

    Can't we think for ourselves.
    i.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    11:33am
    I wish people would have some ideas of their own instead of being so negative toward the ideas of others. :) It's working for the Kiwis Wsaton, so why not look at why it is working? They are leaving us behind. Our population growth has dropped due in part by the Kiwis returning home to NZ because of all the jobs.
    Old Silver Fox
    21st Jul 2015
    11:35am
    Mick, I would probably agree with you a bit more if you stopped bashing the "rich" - ALL governments take what they can from everyone ... AND they certainly don't give to the rich ...
    Wstaton
    21st Jul 2015
    11:39am
    Hmmm, The Australian dollar is dropping and the kiwi dollar is dropping more against the Aussie dollar.

    Apart from this countries makeups are different, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.
    Wstaton
    21st Jul 2015
    11:51am
    NZ jobless rate 5.8% end March qtr hardly much difference from ours. 6.9% for the north island where most people live.

    Jobless rate 3rd qtr 2014 5.4%
    Jobless rate 4th qtr 2014 5.7%
    Jobless rate 1st qtr 2015 5.8%

    Seems to me it is going up.
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:25pm
    Frank, we have an economic structural disaster ahead of us essentially created by Coalition governments of the last 20 years squandering the bonus of the resources boom on tax cuts instead of investing it for our future. Those tax benefits were principally for the benefit of the wealthy "elite". So explain how further tax cuts will save the day, other than further insulating the wealthy from any pain.
    Old Silver Fox where have you been for the last 20 years? Over that period the Coalition governments have been taxing the lower and middle classes at a net rate of 32-38% of taxable income while taxing those on incomes of $180k or more at a net rate of 27%. During this time there have been cuts to education, health and welfare. The poor have been bashed to death, so why is it not time to bash the rich? Or at least start making them bear their fair share of the social burden.
    moke
    21st Jul 2015
    1:19pm
    Hey Mick What Cocky Hocky means is a tax cut for the TOP DOGS AND POLLIES he ain't talking about you and me. We will have to cope with the increase in GST, just watch the food bill and see what they can say is not a necessity for eating for a healthy life style This crowd couldn't lay straight in bed they're so crooked
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:31pm
    I agree with a few of the well thought out comments above, especially Grumpy.
    Australia is in for tough times unless the prices of coal and iron ore bounce back. Whilst India may in the future bring this one on it is unlikely in our lifetime.
    What we have is a nation which imports most everything and which in the past 2 decades has sold off its assets to square the budgets. Blind Freddy can see that this is not sustainable. Either we begin to manufacture again and stop importing so much or we become slaves in our own country. You and Tony can put your heads in the sand Frank but that is the direction the country is heading in.
    Your retort about being "negative" Frank flies in the face of the FACTS. This government is known for its dishonesty and your mate Hockey can crow all he likes. Like you Frank Hockey and others on the front bench have no credibility with the public any more. You know the old saying: 'you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time". I'm sure your employer will not want to hear that, but these are the facts mate.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:18pm
    Australia has become a welfare nation or if someone does work they want to be paid big wages but only pay a pittance for the goods they buy. Cheap imports and a welfare mentality have made this possible. Now very few firms can produce goods at the prices we are prepared to pay because we all want to be paid some of the highest wages in the world. We have been eluded by a mining boom that has all but completely busted and no one wants to acknowledge that the good times are over. When will we all wake up and realise that the party is over.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    2:26pm
    Well said Bonny!!
    Wstaton
    21st Jul 2015
    2:54pm
    Bonny we also have one of the highest cost of living in the world. Need higher wages to pay for it although I think there are a lot of low paid workers who would disagree with you.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    3:27pm
    It's the chicken and egg situation. Did higher wages cause our high cost of living or did our high cost of living cause higher wages? Lower wages and the cost of living will soon compensate but you can't lower the cost of living and expect wages to compensate.
    Anonymous
    21st Jul 2015
    7:01pm
    Bonny - frank - you're first to try out the new 20% income drop scheme....

    For those who have no real idea - the cost of living comprises part of the annual wage claim -ergo - it is the cost of living that goes up first - always has been.. and wages are always playing catchup.

    I've long advocated freezing both at the same time - but that will never happen as long as everything continues to be 'privatised' into the hands of additional 'ceos' and 'board members, all drawn from the usual suspect ban of course - that demand to be overfed on top of the already high cost.

    Right now the electricity moguls are whining that they can't make a profit out of the current prices..... maybe they need to cut some of their own fat then.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:29pm
    TREBOR: The system world on inflation. Has in my lifetime and from what I understand hundreds of years before that: costs go up so wages rise to catch up. Then mortgages (priced in pre inflation dollars) become less as people earn more. And so the cycle goes on.
    What has happened for a long time now is that prices have been increasing without wages catching up. Even thought this has been the case you still get the spokespeople of the rich and their businesses spruiking about these high wages....whilst the increases in pay for the rich have no restraint and no limits.
    My call is that eventually, whenever that is, there will be a wages explosion to catch up. Of course the rich and their business spokespeople will cry 'ruin' as usual. That never changes in this ongoing game of rich against poor complete with all the lies and rhetoric. Welcome to life!
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    10:08pm
    A 20% drop income is not a concern to me as I'm not on any sort of fixed income.

    21st Jul 2015
    10:16am
    If you believe ANYTHING this man says you are TRULY NAIVE, and this is a MILD assessment.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:41pm
    I think most of us except the troll or two here would agree with you sentiment Ed.
    probins01
    21st Jul 2015
    10:21am
    100% guaranteed vote buying, and as soon as the election is over, even if the LNP wins (god forbid, I hope not!), it will either be scrapped, pared back, or cancelled out by other charges. Please don't be duped by this cynical ploy, but mind you, Labor will do exactly the same, so PLEASE consider your vote very carefully, and vote for the independent candidate who most closely matches your values.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:41pm
    Glad to see some are giving this some thought.
    marls
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:22pm
    i will never vote for labor or liberal. the age of entitlement is getting higher and higher for this group of politicians. there is no stopping the entitlements
    Lescol
    21st Jul 2015
    10:27am
    I'm 'gob smacked' to think that pepole would fall for such an obvious ploy when only hours ago there was a call for an increase in tax (GST). Perhaps if the governent was to present the 'vision of 2030' they could be spared a massive rout in the next election.
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:27pm
    Lescol they have presented their vision for 2030. The box was empty.
    Casey
    21st Jul 2015
    10:28am
    Just because the country was left in a deficit state and trajectory by the previous government doesn't mean that their should be a moratorium on changing anything until we are back in surplus.. I would expect that governments will continue to fine tune the taxing AND SPENDING arrangements to move towards a fair AND SUSTAINABLE BALANCE.. That COULD definitely mean tax cuts in some areas and increases in others, along with shedding expenditure that we just cannot afford at this time...like 12 months parental leave.. Which begs the question on THIS subject... Why are federal public servants allowed such generous parental leave when the rest of Australian tax payers, WHO FOOT THE BILL, cannot access such generous payouts ?? Surely such generous conditions should be retracted UNTIL those who earn the $$$$ to pay tax can actually get such "benefits" themselves..
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    10:49am
    I agree would be. It would seem the privileged Public Servants guard their "perks", as a dog does with a bone, with the help of Labor.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:46pm
    Ha, ha, ha Frank.
    Joe must have a hat with rabbits in it. A couple of weeks ago it was "we need to repair the budget" (the one this government removed the debt ceiling on so that it could borrow forever). Now tax cuts?
    Your lies are not working Frank.
    Jen
    21st Jul 2015
    10:28am
    What a joke, on one hand buying votes with tax cuts but drumming up acceptance of a 15% GST.

    Why would anybody believe Joe Hockey or Tony Abbott anyway? Sadly, I think some will, again...
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    10:44am
    Jen, you don't need to believe just state a position on wether you think its a good idea?
    Tax reform is badly needed and it goes without saying adjustment for bracket creep should be part of that.
    Old Silver Fox
    21st Jul 2015
    11:40am
    Jen, you stumbled on the way governments of all persuasion work....rob us with one hand and promise us cuts with the other ... we don't need increases in GST....we just need to make them STOP SPENDING
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:33pm
    Old Silver Fox, your thinking is too simplistic. It is not how much the government spends, it is what it spends it on.
    Money spent on infrastructure projects is good because it promotes jobs, tax receipts and local economic activity. Money spent on hugely enormous defence expenditure such as the F35 fighter is extremely bad. Such expenditure promotes employment and economic activity in the US, serves as a huge drain on budget expenditure for no local economic benefit. That is apart from it being a complete lemon which cannot fly within 30Km of an electrical storm.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:50pm
    Frank: the next lie from you and your government. Tax relief will only come for the big end of town. Average Australians will get a a token decrease whilst having taxes pushed through the roof. Jen is on the money....increasing the GST will hit the poor the hardest and will more than wipe away any tax decrease.
    Tell us where you live Frank so that some in the community can investigate who employs you. I have already worked it out mate!
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    4:35pm
    mick unlike you, I am a concerned citizen. Where I live has no baring on my concerns for this great nation and it's equally great people.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:32pm
    People who have an honest concern about our country do not use the sort of rhetoric you use Frank. Nor do they lie continually or work for either side of politics whilst claiming to be an individual voice.
    As I have said to you on a number of occasions Frank give me your details and I'll check you out and/or pop in and say g'day. That will put this one to bed. What do you say?
    Biddy
    21st Jul 2015
    10:52am
    Well this is another one of the Governments tricks to stay in power,with one minute saying that we all should have a go and another saying we must catch welfare cheats,now Mr Hockey is saying he is going to cut taxes before the next election,what makes these Liberals tick,it is not there heart it is a time bomb,of course there should be tax reforms but is this the right time or just another one of their tricks to get people's votes,there are so many things that need fixing at present but Tony Abbott passes all his promises on to some other government persons to make decision for him like Mike Baird and the G.S.T.he would not say he would do it but left it to the state leader to bring it out,how gutless is he,he has nothing to say to the people of Australia,just full of shit that dribbles out of his mouth and the mouths of all poloticans ,they do not have Australia at heart,but sell us to the highest bidder like China
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:51pm
    Yep. The old shell game. But a lie remains a lie remains a lie.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    3:16pm
    Yep, on one of the few occasions I agree with you mick.
    "There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead."
    Listen for the Labor leader to say this. He may try to wedge tail it in by calling it another name like ETS just to fool the idiots, and a few of the smart 1 million people who have no understanding of English.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:37pm
    Don't waste your time Frank. The normal anti Labor LNP advertisement.
    Robo50
    21st Jul 2015
    11:00am
    Perhaps we should look at actually lowering the tax-free threshold from an all-time-high $18,000?? Or, heaven forbid, actually look at increasing our personal income tax rates to better deal with our current situation? Oh right, that could actually lose Joe & Co. votes could it not?
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:53pm
    How about we stop letting the rich 'invent' outs for avoiding fair tax. Or maybe close the superannuation loophole for the rich. Or maybe change legislation so that multinationals can avoid paying tax in Australia.
    Your suggestion Rob is what this government wants to do: tax average citizens and drop taxes for the rich.
    Robo50
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:12am
    Mick, because we have "stepped" levels of income tax it would be very easy to simply increase personal oncome tax on higher income earners without affecting middle and lower income earners in any way at all. In regard to Corporates and Multinationals if every business operating in Oz merely paid a 10% tax on turnover alone (even with complete disregard to any profit-based basis of taxation) we would be swimming in sufficient dollars to do everything we need to do and more in this country.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:47am
    Robo50 perhaps you would be but only for a year or two. After that unemployment would be about the same as it is in Greece. An average business may only make around 10% profit so they would need to down size and reduce costs in order to survive.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:03am
    Fine Rob,

    55 millionaires pay no tax at all raising the top bracket would only make them spend more to avoid it.

    The Buffett rule is the only way to stop this.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:05am
    Bloody heck I wish I could make 10% profit on my savings.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:57am
    Well it becomes 7% after tax and that 7% is often earmarked for growth in around 20% of businesses. I suspect it simply stays in the business as unappropriated profits. The retailers may make a little more than 10% but they have the expense of being taxed on that by the landlord as well as compulsory shop fitouts. The Government did manage to get some of that stored away rainy day cash back into circulation it seems with the instant write off up to $20k. New car sales were high in May /June.
    I'm sure you could do it Wstaton if you were prepared to work a 60 hour week.
    But wouldn't you rather earn the same from centre link by sitting on your bum complaining?
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:14pm
    Typical lib,

    For your information I have worked all my life and often worked a 60 hour week. I have paid my dues and uptodate haven't accepted a penny of Centrelink. Sorry I have a seniors card. I don't think that is by a courtesy of Centrelink.

    What I do know is that owners of businesses usually pay themselves a salary which then becomes an expense of the company which is deducted before profit
    mangomick
    23rd Jul 2015
    12:39am
    Anyone who has been self employed,run a business or farm knows that there are a myriad of avenues available to minimise their tax burden nearly to the point of not paying any at all. All legal and above board but makes a mockery of tax equality. I'm many cases they are able to avoid a large percentage of GST on items that aren't for their business but go down as being for their business. That's why I keep saying if GST exemptions were removed from everything the actual rate should come down and everyone would contribute more equally to GST revenue.
    Robo50
    23rd Jul 2015
    10:15pm
    You've won me on that one mangomick. If GST exemptions were removed it should achievea similar net effect as a 10% turnover tax on business would do.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    11:00am
    I don't get it?
    I know economics is not my strong point but how can it be?
    When Labor were sending out cheques to voters that was strengthening the economy.
    When the Coalition provide tax cuts to workers that is weakening the economy by adding to the deficit?
    I would have thought a tax cut is a more economical way of putting extra dollars into household budgets.
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:41pm
    Frank its all about timing and context.
    When Labour sent out the cheques there was a very real risk of the global and our economies being slowed down by austerity measures which would have strangled growth for many years, with consequent social pain for all. The cheques served to promote economic growth by encouraging spending. Treasury had the money, so it could be done.
    Now however, when the effects of the skewed tax structure introduced by Coalition governments during the boom when the structures real effects could be masked by burgeoning receipts is visible, the receipts will no longer support such things, unless a fairer tax base is developed. Such a base can only be achieved by the wealthy and big business being made to bear their fair share of the total burden.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    1:43pm
    Timing and context huh? Nothing to do with politics, just timing and context?
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:56pm
    Frank: Grumpy is on the money. You are on the spin.
    Look up 'GFC'. Read about what this was. And then tell the community here about how Australians did NOT lose their jobs when the rest of the developed world was decimated.
    Whilst you continue on with the Union and Labor scapegoats your story is the normal LNP propaganda.
    mangomick
    21st Jul 2015
    2:11pm
    Labor's plan of trying to increase employment with Pink Batts and school halls while poorly executed was a good idea for quickly strengthening our economy during the GFC . Sending out cheques was plain stupid. The money could have been put to better use by being spent on a large infrastructure project but both sides of Government are so blinkered (I was going to say stupid ) that they only think about the next 3 years that we don't have any big scale plans in place (like fast rail or irrigation schemes etc where funds can be thrown at ongoing projects to stimulate our economy quickly.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    2:24pm
    mango, I disagree that pink batts created anything else but heartache and about 10,000 jobs for 6 months at enormous cost to taxpayers. It would have been cheaper to payroll 20,000 people for 12 months. I don't know about the school halls either. Some were pulled down as fast as they were erected. As were the pink batts removed from many homes. I have no idea why they did not bring forward many of the infrastructure projects as recommended during 2008.
    I do agree however that our political system is not working well for us. Too much emphasis is placed on what is politically correct and not for the good of the nation.
    mangomick
    21st Jul 2015
    3:24pm
    Pink batts weren't the problem, the silver foil insulation was or more to the point the training/licensing supervision and lack of response from the relevant Department and Minister when problems were found. Ceiling insulation carries on saving people $$$s on heating and cooling costs as well as generating a lot of employment quickly. Same as school halls kicked the building industry along at a time when it was most needed. There were a lot of rip offs in overly inflated quotes and priorities but Government Departments are to blame for allowing that to happen. Could Australia have survived the GFC without all that, I think we would have but I'm pretty sure Labor took their advice from organisations like the IMF . But yeah, somewhere along the way our Governments have lost their way and it has become like a Vendetta against the other as each Party comes to power and honestly the worst culprit has been and continues to be Abbott .
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    3:24pm
    Pink batts and school halls were a quick fix infrastructure would have taken too long to plan and build. It was all a bad knee jerk reaction to a perceived problem that made some people very rich and others victims when they got in too late.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    3:54pm
    "Labor took their advice from organisations like the IMF ."
    Yes sir! As if the IMF had Australia's interest as a priority.
    Swan came back from the G20 like a sailor on first shore leave.
    Why should we have helped to bail out other economies at our expense. Rudd told us initially, we will not be affected because of our strong contracts with China. But fast forward, hold the phone!! Stop the press!! The Labor political machine kicks into gear and we suddenly have a problem and the only solution is to empty the vaults, sending cheques to Labor voters with a message to spend, spend, spend. And there's more where that came from. With Swan's constant reassurance that we were doing ok compared to Greece. I know why some people want these economic vandals back.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    3:57pm
    I do too Frank. No bonus extra jelly beans with current fiscally responsible government.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:42pm
    Agree with you mango. Pretty well covers it.
    The trouble with our troll Frank is that there is never anything other than crap. Pink batts may not have been the perfect solution but they kept a lot of Aussies in work as well as bring down energy prices. There was a silver lining. Had it been me I would have loved to have brought forward infrastructure projects....but you cannot do that from week to week. That was the paradox.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    10:03pm
    It would have been better without the stimulus packages as we would not have kicked the can down the road and be now heading into a recession.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    6:40am
    Bonny I agree. Keating would have said let the recession happen. We were in a strong position to handle it back then. Our underlying problem was always having a government which cared more about mirror gazing. A recession would not have looked good for them politically.
    Anyway, the question is have we learned anything from our mistakes???
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:17am
    Our underlying problem dear LNP troll is that governments on both sides of politics have used the nation's finances as their own casino as they played their political game of waste. And then as the money was frittered away they decided that it was a good idea to sell off bits of the nation to foreigners.
    Your continued anti-Labor rants paint you for what you are: an employee of this worst of all governments.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    11:01am
    I can't see tax cuts benefiting pensioners or retirees myself so who do they benefit?
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:43pm
    Bonny, tax payers. The bigger the income the greater the benefit.
    KSS
    21st Jul 2015
    12:51pm
    Bonny if you don't pay tax there are no cuts to be had. Those on the aged pension do not pay tax, nor do many SF retirees. If you do pay tax then you clearly have a large enough income and I would suggest waiting until definite proposals are brought to the voting public to see how you may be affected, and then have your say at the ballot box.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    1:57pm
    They're not meant to. Some retirees do pay tax KSS.
    thommo
    21st Jul 2015
    2:44pm
    Bonny, for once I agree with you re your'e comment " I can't see tax cuts benefiting pensioners or retirees myself so who do they benefit?"
    They benefit the big end of town and the big earners who get big tax relief with their Super contributions to start with, but it is just a bribe to get back into govt. You wouldn't trust mob in a fit. They're a bunch of lying morons.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    3:31pm
    Yes the are politiicans.
    Anonymous
    21st Jul 2015
    6:24pm
    thommo, you're right. First of all, income tax cuts are VERY improbable and would have very little or no benefit to most Aged Pensioners. An increase to the GST is quite likely and would effect EVRYONE. There is a possibility of a new tax - the HST (Health Services Tax) - to find similar to the Medicare Levy, or just an increase to the Levy. APRA has recommended banks increasing their capital buffers, as is being done in the U.S., and to watch who they are lending to (reminiscent of the subprime borrowers who "inspired" the GFC?). And, the RBA is seriously considering another cut in interest rates. Then there's the new tapering rates to take effect on 1/1/2017. All-in-all, things look pretty crook for the immediate economic future for everyone.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    6:53pm
    RBA will cut rates but APRA has just given the banks a good excuse not to pass it on to borrowers. Savers will probably get a haircut too. Banks will defend their profits above all else.

    If I was a betting person I'd put my money on an increase in Medicare levy as the mechanism is already in place to not effect low income earners.

    Increase in GST is probably just a red herring in all of this.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:45pm
    Bonny: your post sounds a lot like our resident troll. But you are not too far off the money here. Banks will probably cut dividends to fund the increase in the reserve ratio.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    9:41pm
    No banks have already signaled that they will make up any difference by not passing on the full future interest rate cut. Remember those running the banks have oodles of options that they will protect and optimise with rising profits and therefore dividends. With the exception of the CBA all the banks have already sorted out the new APRA requirements. eg NAB had a capital rising, WBC sold BT to it's shareholders.
    pate
    21st Jul 2015
    11:02am
    i am sick of saying as Hockey is not an accountants bootlace I fail to see how he can even dream of becoming treasurer of anything let alone a country. Of course it is about what I would expect of Abbott.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:02pm
    Not meant to be pate. All politicians are cagey and evasive. Some are a little bit dishonest. But most of the Abbott frontbench, like Abbott himself, are totally dishonest, have no moral fibre and think it is ok to lie and cheat their way through politics.
    I have never before seen a government like this one. It is my concerted hope that this government is decimated in the election (no matter how much money the coal industry and the Murdoch empire provide) and that the rest of the Party forces this bunch of misfits to resign. There is no place for traitors in our country.
    Biddy
    21st Jul 2015
    11:07am
    How do we believe these people,Joe Hockey is a joke and grasp at straws,we are suppose to be in debt and is this sheer bribery for their votesis this like his paid parental leave and the big surplus we are suppose to be striving for,whether it be Liberal or Labour how do we trust them with our system we sell out Australia to the foreign owners, to open mines,or our cattle stations up north,have a go they say what a joke,the youth unemployment should be first on their list,this working for the dole is something that should be checked,instead of teaching these youngs how to get employed they spend their time raking up leaves,or washing dog Kennels out and picking up doggy poo how degrading for these young ones and Luke Hurtsuker says it is working what a joke,when will they cut TAFE fees and make it more affordable for the every day person to enter their courses,or make the Universities the same I am disgusted with the whole lot of these Government bodies,they sit in high places make ridiculous comments and do bugger all to fix the real problems of to day,this is just another spinning trick to get the votes of us all,you poloticans make me sick
    Grateful
    21st Jul 2015
    11:16am
    Latest Poll 53:47 and widening. Aussies are smart and are sick of being taken for mugs.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    11:28am
    Maybe you are right Grateful? Perhaps we do want higher taxes, higher cost of electricity, more refugee boats, more government waste. However, with Bill Shorten's net approval rate at -32% , it certainly looks like we don't want him reintroducing those policies. Not even Rudd had been that low in the polls when Gillard and Shorten knifed him.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    1:42pm
    Grateful, it's worth mentioning that one million voters don't understand English. They may be smart but they cannot speak or understand the native tongue here in OZ.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:07pm
    Ha, ha, ha Frank. Nowhere to go. Grateful, like so many other posters here, understands how this government works.
    Try on all the union and Labor tripe you like Frank. The real issue is that the current government has sold out average Australians.....and average Australians will remember this at election time no matter what lie or bogus offer Abbott and his cronies come up with.
    As for the 1 million non English speaking Australians I am sure your boss would have other trolls like you out there....but family will inform these people so good try.
    Wstaton
    21st Jul 2015
    11:29am
    Well if they are income tax cuts by upping the Gst they really are not tax cuts at all Its just moving where they come from.

    A bit like cutting $80b from education etc. And trying to force the states to make it up.
    Grateful
    21st Jul 2015
    12:31pm
    Wstaton, that's what this "GST talk" is ALL about!!! It's blackmail!!
    This government has cut $80 BILLION from the States budgets and has hand balled the GST "debate" over to the only popular Lib in Australia, Mike Baird. "Tony Abbott backs MIKE BAIRD'S CALLl to raise GST to 15%. Sure he does!!!
    The government doesn't want to be seen to be RAISING any taxes, in fact, as this forum is discussing, Hockey is even suggesting that they will have tax CUTS!!! What a horrible populist state we have developed.
    Maybe Peter FitzSimons might solve all of that when we ditch a P.M. in 2020 which he has predicted!!! Maybe won't happen, but, looking more certain by the day that it will be a different PM to the one we have now.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:08pm
    Yep.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    4:28pm
    Forget about the $80b it was a pie in the sky promise made by a government on its way out which would never make good on it. Shorten was asked the other day.
    Anonymous
    21st Jul 2015
    7:08pm
    Wouldn't (says genteelly) break wind in Baird's direction if he were becalmed on Pittwater and surrounded by hungry sharks....
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:47pm
    Funny Frank. More of the same.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    11:42am
    The amount of wasted and unnecessary services in the medical and hospital systems really annoys me. Same goes for the education system. A decent audit of our medical and educations systems would save a awful lot of money which would help the government's bottom line. Maybe even pay for some tax cuts.
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:51pm
    Bonny, an audit of corporate welfare and the same approach would yield far more savings. Do BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto really need the same relief from the cost of diesel fuel as farmers? Does big business really need the bonus of tax deductibility of interest, a bonus enjoyed by companies in a very small handful of countries in the World? Why not means test such corporate welfare as individuals' welfare benefits are means tested?
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:09pm
    Keep following the money trail Grumpy. You have reached one of the many benefactors.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    2:14pm
    So Grumpy, I suppose you also think it was wrong of this government to cut car makers off the public purse strings?
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    9:19pm
    This just shows how incredibly stupid you are Frank....and so by design your government employer. The car industry had tens of thousands of secondary jobs and even sold some of its vehicles overseas. So the local engineering shop making component parts is now closed and the multiplier effect works in reverse for us now.
    We may have saved a few bucks but now we have a whole pile more people on unemployment benefits doing nothing useful for the country.
    How useless your kind who seek to close down everything and destroy the nation.
    Wstaton
    21st Jul 2015
    9:47pm
    And flog off all our assets Mick.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    6:24am
    mick I'm confused. Are you for taxpayers funding big business or against it???
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    12:20pm
    Nothing to be confused about. What would you and your deadbeat government rather do? Pay for social security or pay a small percentage of that to keep Australians working? The car industry employed tens of thousands of Australians working in associated industries. But what does your boss care about that when he can simply borrow more money whilst claiming to reduce borrowings?
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    12:38pm
    Most economists would disagree with you mick.
    Anyway, you are now for taxpayer funding big business.
    I don't know what changed your mind, because you hate the rich and big business. I guess it doesn't really matter, I just wanted to confirm the extent of your hypocrisy.
    mangomick
    22nd Jul 2015
    12:51pm
    Guess it comes down to does Government subsidies some manufacturing industries which have huge flow on effects like the car industry or do they not and then end up having to subsidise all those out of work workers who now don't contribute anything to tax revenue plus the longer term social damage through many of the young kids of the now unemployed car industry workers who get into a cycle of welfare, drugs and crime. it's not all about counting beans.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    2:17pm
    sorry mango, but it is about counting beans which includes consideration to human behavioural responses to change. That's what they do.
    I don't want to hear you two micks complain about big business getting a leg up from the taxpayer again.
    The previous government was big on handouts to big business.
    mangomick
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:04pm
    Yes Frank in reality it is about counting beans but they are only counting half the beans. They forgot to add in the huge social cost that someone is going to have to pay for down the road. It's narrow vision politics. Farmers wouldn't exist without Government handouts nor mining. Are you saying that those subsidies should be wiped also?Or is it just the ones Abbott wants to get rid of that you favour????
    mangomick
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:10pm
    Frank says,"The previous government was big on handouts to big business".
    There you have it folks. Labor is now the Party for big business and the LNP now stands for the battler and working man. Boy, what planet have I just woken up on. Well at least you got a smile out of me frank :-)
    But bottom line is if LNP don't stand for big business or the working man, who the hell do they stand for. Don't tell me it's the farmer because there are a lot on the Liverpool Plains who would disagree with that.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:26pm
    I'm against taxpayer handouts to businesses.
    If they cannot get a loan under a commercial contract then why throw good money after bad? If they are struggling and have assets then let them downsize or take on the help of an angel, or a competitor buy out.
    It is absolutely ridiculous to hear of the amount of money we have given businesses because of political pressure.
    If a business employs 20 then nobody could give a hoot. This is totally unfair.

    Only banks in OZ should have us as the lender of last resort.
    I don't care who opposes my opinion if its Abbott, Bishop or the Pope. Or the heathens in Labor who worship the dollar.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:38pm
    Well that is a turn around Frank.
    The only Party which worships the dollar is the LNP and its big business owners who control policies to ensure the money keeps coming...their way. And by the way only "heathens" lie their way into office, lie whilst they are there and then act in a despicable manner when they are thrown out.
    Tom Tank
    21st Jul 2015
    11:52am
    Isn't it time we got some policies that will work in the interests of ALL Australians instead of this constant fiddling to ensure re-election.
    We are very poorly served by our elected representatives and yet they have the gall to point the finger at Independents in Parliament.
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:55pm
    Tom Tank, Abbott is so caught up in scoring points in the political game he has forgotten the overall objective of the game.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:14pm
    What about rule by Q&A. Last night's episode was a corker. Even LNP stalwart Alan Jones got stuck into his own. It gladdened my heart that the utter corruption in permitting a Chinese company to mine coal with a mine of 30 years was rubbished. When a short term coal venture is more important than food (forever) then we have to act as a nation.
    As I keep saying lets vote in Independents by the dozen so we can end the business dealings between governments and the coal industry. Selling off future food security is almost as dumb as selling off your prime farming land to foreign governments. Politicians should be jailed for this as this behaviour is treason.
    KSS
    21st Jul 2015
    12:48pm
    How about you all actually read the transcript of the interview here:
    http://jbh.ministers.treasury.gov.au/transcript/159-2015/ and see what Mr Hockey actually said in relation to tax cuts. The lead up to the question was about the fact that people on average incomes were paying the second highest rate of tax. The question put to Mr Hockey was:
    "A guy or a woman on average weekly wages, they’re going to pay the second-highest rate. Is there any hope of you guys actually cutting marginal rates before the next election?"

    To which Mr Hockey replied:
    "Well, not before the next election, but certainly we’ll be taking a proposal to the Australian people at the next election."

    He was then asked:
    "There’ll be tax cuts promised at the next election?"

    To which Mr Hockey replied:
    "That’s what we’re aiming for." And then went on to talk about other taxes that had been announced by the previous Government that had not been legislated and had now been scrapped.

    That does not sound like a promise of tax cuts to me. Rather an indication of where he would like Australia to be by then.

    If you all consider someone on average wages as 'rich' then go for your life. I do not. And with bracket creep more and more people are forced unfairly into higher tax rates than should be applicable. Why would this not be addressed as part of a review of taxation in Australia ?

    Settle down people. You are wasting so much energy placard waving before you even know what may or may not be put to us before the next election. Still, that's the way here though isn't it? Anything to discredit the current Government right?
    Grumpy
    21st Jul 2015
    12:58pm
    KSS while your commentary on what JH said is factually quite correct, isn't the real issue that even aiming for tax cuts in the current context is simply wrong headed and out of touch with reality?
    KSS
    21st Jul 2015
    1:11pm
    Never let the fact get in the way of a good rant eh Grumpy?
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:18pm
    I sort of agree with both of you. Perhaps FIRST this government needs to chase the rich to pay a fair percentage of their income into the tax coffers, to close the superannuation tax shelter for the rich and to change legislation so that multinationals cannot shift their profits to lower taxing regimes. Do all of the above and there will be heaps of money in the coffers. But as usual from this side of politics it is not about fairness, it is about the rich getting the lion's share of everything and the poor getting the bills.
    cdbstock
    21st Jul 2015
    1:02pm
    Frank - Yes we need a new tax system - one that is fair but catches all - including the rapidly growing internet purchases from overseas suppliers (GST_free for purchases less than $1000 and policing those purchases over $1000 is very costly & difficult). What do you think of a 'Transaction Tax System' - see my idea INTRODUCTION
    1. The current federal tax system is far too complex
    2. The ever increasing amount spent for online purchase less than $1000 per item results in ever decreasing GST revenue - & it’s too costly to impose & scrutinise GST collection on these items
    THE TRANSACTION TAX SYSTEM (SIMPLIFIED)
    1. A 4% (say) tax on every monetary transaction – no exception
    2. For example: transfer of wages from employer to employee; payments for groceries etc; all repayments onto credit cards; all payments for items purchased online; transfer of funds from a transaction bank account to a term deposit account; all payments by cash, cheque, credit card, debit card, etc
    IMPACTS
    1. Gov’t must pay all benefits from consolidated revenue – visible budget allocations
    2. No annual tax return
    3. Much reduced ATO size
    4. No unproductive tax accountant/tax lawyers & support staff
    5. Catch all online purchase/sales
    6. No difficulty as currently experienced in determining which items are subject to GST
    7. Large reduction in size of the ‘black market’ – it’s just not worth it at 4%
    8. Encourages vertical integration to minimise tax
    9. Reduction in State/Territory taxes – negotiable
    10. Simplified accounting requirements
    11. Politicians are able to promise grants, payments, reduction in the transaction tax rate etc – all from budget
    PROBLEMS
    1. Politicians will want exceptions to gain votes
    2. Substantial legislation required
    3. Need to have transitional arrangements – eg: adequate notice to enable IT developments; industrial arrangements; calculation of the required tax rate; public education arrangements; lobby groups; - but transitional arrangements are feasible
    4. Increased auditing of: individuals; corporations; ‘not for profit’ organisations.
    Cdbstock
    April 2015
    ?
    TRANSACTION TAX - INDIVIDUALS – EXAMPLES
    LOW INCOME
    Assumptions:
    • Employer pays wage into a bank account & other pay deductions into other accounts
    • Employee spends 90% of wage on essentials & entertainment
    • Employee saves 10% of wage
    • Employee invests all saving
    Tax paid:
    • 4%*100% of wage paid by employer to employee
    • 4%*90% of wage spent by employee on essentials etc
    • 4%*10% of wage saved by employee
    • 4%*dividends – assumed as 5% pa - (0.04*0.05*0.1*wage)
    • Total tax paid by employee=wage *12.02%
    MID INCOME
    Assumptions
    • 100% salary etc paid by employer into employee’s bank account
    • Employee spends 80% salary etc on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • Employee saves 20% salary etc
    • Employee invests all saving
    Tax Paid:
    • 4%*100% of salary etc paid by employer to employee
    • 4%*80% of salary etc spent by employee on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • 4%* 20% of salary etc saved by employee
    • 4% dividends – assumed as 5% pa – (0.04*0.05*0.2*salary etc)
    • Total tax paid by employee=salary etc*12.04%
    HIGH INCOME
    Assumptions:
    • 100% salary etc paid by employer to employee
    • Employee spends 50% salary etc on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • Employee saves 50% salary etc
    • Employee invests all saving
    Tax Paid:
    • 4%*100% of salary etc
    • 4%*50% salary etc spent on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • 4%*50% of salary etc saved
    • 4% dividends – assumed as 5% pa – (0.04*0.05*0.5*salary etc)
    • Total tax paid by employee=salary etc*12.1%
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    1:23pm
    A transaction tax will bring the economy to it's knees and we will have a GFC. Our economy relies on billions moving around all the time and a transactions tax will stop this and we will have a recession until it is scraped.
    KSS
    21st Jul 2015
    1:34pm
    And the actual amount paid by the individual would not be 12% but in fact a lot more.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    1:51pm
    Would you pay 4% to invest your money in a term deposit returning 2%? More economic to stuff it under the mattress and increase your insurance.
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    1:53pm
    Awe gee, I don't know about this cbd?
    It's kind of like a GST on steroids. I don't even think it's right to tax someone for going to work and if they work harder they get taxed harder. But if you get taxed for every activity I'm afraid it could make a few people less willing?
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:05pm
    Spend a penny is even being taxed out here.
    gilstamp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:37pm
    This certainly deserves looking at. Compare it with the cumulative effects of other taxes working through the system, certainly more than four percent each.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    3:20pm
    It is not even worth thinking about as it's a GST on steroids in practice.
    Patriot
    21st Jul 2015
    7:27pm
    I think that the "FEAR FACTOR" is that those who are paying little or NO tax at all currently will be curbed!?!?!?!
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    9:30pm
    It's not a problem as the informed will just take the changes head on and change the way they do things. No fear factor for me. I do however see it will effect those who least expect it and result in a lot of worry about their finances.
    Biddy
    21st Jul 2015
    1:12pm
    Maybe they should use the money that the speaker uses for her travelling expenses and the rest of what she claims for,put it to better use like helping those whom really need it,I must say she must think we are all idiots and what a joke these excessive claims are made to look like they are indeed warranted when it is used for self purpose only,what amuses me is that Tonpy Abbott has put her on (P) probatation this is tax payers hard earned money,and she has treated it like she is really entitled to it no remorse only the smirk on her face,should she step down as speaker?well maybe and as for Mike Baird pushing for a higher G.S.T. As usual Tony Abbott has passed the buck like he always does,when he has slashed Hospitals& education to the sum of$80billion dollars,what will be his next no brainer will the states fall into line as to speak or will they find another way to help this burden which has been created by a incumbeneted Liberal Government,in this unstable time usually the Prime Minister takes the lead about problems not pass it on to the states to decide where to go, but this seems to be the way he works,Have A Go,does this ring a bell,should do,as it seems to be their favourite phrase why can't we stand on our own two feet why compare us to other countries and why us Joe Hockey so adamant to tax reform when all we hear is how they continue to sell Australia short,now they are doing a deal with China for our cattle,does this mean we will be paying top dollars for our meat or do we only get the scraps,next we will be seeing the Chinese flag raised as they will proclaim this is their country,is this really what we want? because it seems that the dollar sign and value is all that really matters but as usual the government will not disguss this with the people instead they hide it and put across they have us at heartand wish to keep us safe,I would rather call it control so this to me is100% force voting get bloody real
    Ahjay
    21st Jul 2015
    1:17pm
    How much would we cut from the bottom line if all politicians and public servants were on the 9.5% superannuation rate and the same access laws as the average Australian ?

    I am not an economist, however, I am sure it would make a difference.
    Circum
    22nd Jul 2015
    5:02pm
    Ahjay is a good name for a racehorse
    cdbstock
    21st Jul 2015
    1:41pm
    Bonny - The current tax system is broken - how would you fix it. By the way commerce would not cease & the sky wouldn't fall in - a Transaction Tax System works well in countries that have it
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:02pm
    Nothing wrong with our current tax system but there are big saving to be made in fixing our wasteful government spending system.

    A transaction tax is certainly not the answer. Just imagine paying 4% to earn 2% in a term deposit and 4% every time your roll it over.

    Or you plan to go overseas and want some money in another currency. Would you like to pay another 4% on top of approx 3% you already pay? That's if we still have a forex system trading our currency which would have already been decimated by the transaction tax imposed.

    Every bill you pay costs 4% more just to pay it.

    No wonder the cash economy will be flourishing.

    Doesn't make any sense to me all.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:27pm
    Our tax system is difficult and compliance is a nightmare for many. What needs fixing is not the tax system per se. What needs fixing is all of the tolerated loopholes and rorts:

    1. force the well connected rich to pay a fair percentage of their income into the tax coffers.
    2. close the superannuation tax shelter for the rich.
    3. change legislation so that multinationals cannot shift their profits to lower taxing regimes.

    Mission accomplished! And then of course LNP voted out by their rich constituents.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:33pm
    Ban political donations we might just get a decent government. No political adverts at election time. Bliss.
    Patriot
    21st Jul 2015
    7:24pm
    We "Banned Guns" in Australia and now the CRIMINALS are the only ones that have them.
    Ban donations and they'll still get supported by the cartels I bet !!!
    Guns found their way around the legislation and so will Donations!
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:52pm
    You have a valid point Patriot. Indeed that is precisely what would happen. So introduce laws which involve jail time and proceeds of crime style legislation, including gifts to family or payment/employment after politics. I'd like to see the bastards get around that. If not protected by laws of their own making they would have nowhere to go. Any of them. Of course I understand that this will never get in because the bastards look after themselves first and last.
    cdbstock
    21st Jul 2015
    1:51pm
    KSS - Sorry - wrong version posted - see corrected version below. Note that the tax paid by low,medium & high earnerws is about the same - but the beaquty of such a systyem is that all concessions to: low earners, farmers, big earners, charities, families etc would be transparent to all - budget allocations
    INTRODUCTION
    1. The current federal tax system is far too complex
    2. The ever increasing amount spent for online purchase less than $1000 per item results in ever decreasing GST revenue - & it’s too costly to impose & scrutinise GST collection on these items
    THE TRANSACTION TAX SYSTEM (SIMPLIFIED)
    1. A 4% (say) tax on every monetary transaction – no exception
    2. For example: transfer of wages from employer to employee; payments for groceries etc; all repayments onto credit cards; all payments for items purchased online; transfer of funds from a transaction bank account to a term deposit account; all payments by cash, cheque, credit card, debit card, etc
    IMPACTS
    1. Gov’t must pay all benefits from consolidated revenue – visible budget allocations
    2. No annual tax return
    3. Much reduced ATO size
    4. No unproductive tax accountant/tax lawyers & support staff
    5. Catch all online purchase/sales
    6. No difficulty as currently experienced in determining which items are subject to GST
    7. Large reduction in size of the ‘black market’ – it’s just not worth it at 4%
    8. Encourages vertical integration to minimise tax
    9. Reduction in State/Territory taxes – negotiable
    10. Simplified accounting requirements
    11. Politicians are able to promise grants, payments, reduction in the transaction tax rate etc – all from budget
    PROBLEMS
    1. Politicians will want exceptions to gain votes
    2. Substantial legislation required
    3. Need to have transitional arrangements – eg: adequate notice to enable IT developments; industrial arrangements; calculation of the required tax rate; public education arrangements; lobby groups; - but transitional arrangements are feasible
    4. Increased auditing of: individuals; corporations; ‘not for profit’ organisations.
    cdbstock
    April 2015
    ?
    TRANSACTION TAX - INDIVIDUALS – EXAMPLES
    LOW INCOME
    Assumptions:
    • Employer pays wage into a bank account & other pay deductions into other accounts
    • Employee spends 90% of wage on essentials & entertainment
    • Employee saves 10% of wage
    • Employee invests all saving
    Tax paid:
    • 4%*100% of wage paid by employer to employee
    • 4%*90% of wage spent by employee on essentials etc
    • 4%*10% of wage saved by employee
    • 4%*dividends – assumed as 5% pa - (0.04*0.05*0.1*wage=0.2%*wage)
    • Total tax paid by employee=wage(4%*100%+4%*90%+4%*10%+4%*5%*10%)=wage(4%+3.6%+0.4%+0.02%=8.02% of wage
    MID INCOME
    Assumptions
    • 100% salary etc paid by employer into employee’s bank account
    • Employee spends 80% salary etc on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • Employee saves 20% salary etc
    • Employee invests all saving
    Tax Paid:
    • 4%*100% of salary etc paid by employer to employee
    • 4%*80% of salary etc spent by employee on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • 4%* 20% of salary etc saved by employee
    • 4% dividends – assumed as 5% pa – (4%*5%*20%)salary=.04%
    • Total tax paid by employee=salary(4%*100%+4%*80%+4%*20%+4%*5%*20%*=4%+3.2%+0.8%+0.04%* salary=8.04% of salary

    • HIGH INCOME
    Assumptions:
    • 100% salary etc paid by employer to employee
    • Employee spends 50% salary etc on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • Employee saves 50% salary etc
    • Employee invests all saving
    Tax Paid:
    • 4%*100% of salary etc
    • 4%*50% salary etc spent on ‘essentials’ & entertainment
    • 4%*50% of salary etc saved
    • 4% dividends – assumed as 5% pa – (0.04*0.05*0.5*salary etc)
    • Total tax paid by employee=salary(4%+2%+2%+0.1%=8.1% of salary etc
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:03pm
    Theory and practice are still miles apart.
    gilstamp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:48pm
    Bonny, you conservatives cannot think of change in case the comfortable nests which the beneficiaries of the system and the leaners have settled into might be slightly affected.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    3:18pm
    I know enough about our financial system to know why a transaction tax will not work in practice though. If you hinder the movement of money within Australia we will have another GFC. You are right I am very uncomfortable with a transaction tax and you should be too. It is the movement of money which keeps the economy going and the less transactions you have the worse off the economy will be. If you think GST is bad a transaction tax is GST on steroids.
    mangomick
    21st Jul 2015
    1:58pm
    Big difference between 'would like" and "will". Didn't the Henry review say that it was a bad mistake by Howard and Costello to lower tax rates when they did. Why would Hockey talk about giving tax cuts while trying to talk up raising the GST??? Go figure. Like I said...Big difference between ,"Would like" and "will"
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:28pm
    Don't worry mango. Its just talk. Will never happen. The next in a long list of lies!
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    2:36pm
    Henry also said Kevin Rudd was a better leader than any other world leader.
    Henry should have stayed out of politics.
    gilstamp
    21st Jul 2015
    2:49pm
    Henry was correct.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    3:28pm
    Agree Henry should have kept his mouth shut.
    Patriot
    21st Jul 2015
    7:16pm
    Could Henry "Just Be MUCH smarter" Than Frank & Bonny Collectively????
    It is "For Certain" that HENRY was much more qualified than Frank & Bonny Collectively!!!
    Adrianus
    21st Jul 2015
    7:46pm
    Henry owed Rudd one for letting him save face with his mum even though it put Rudd in an unpopular position. It appeared to me that they had some sort of respect for each other, whether deserved or not. There are a lot of people smarter than me Patriot, but it doesn't mean much.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:54pm
    Most people are smarter than you Frank and most have the decency not to accept payment for publishing LNG propaganda. Give it a break.

    21st Jul 2015
    2:04pm
    So we have a budget crisis. We can't afford to pay decent pensions to retirees or to support the disabled. We must consider alternate ways to generate revenue. But we can afford to give tax cuts to the privileged (Well, the under-priviledged don't get tax cuts, do they? They don't pay tax. And the battling workers don't pay enough to get much of a cut. So clearly it's only the rich and privileged Hockey intends to benefit. Totally consistent with their other policies. Take from the majority - and especially the most disadvantaged - to give to the wealthy elite.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    2:29pm
    Good to see more and more in the community are beginning to realise what this game is all about. And it ain't about good government or what is right for the nation.
    Wstaton
    21st Jul 2015
    2:47pm
    But the majority vote Rainey. It's up to them.
    Jen
    22nd Jul 2015
    7:22am
    What's staggering, Rainey, is that some seem to think that situation is ok! The ANZAC spirit has long gone.

    Wstaton, you are correct. We tend to forget that it is we who have the power in this country as long as we can vote and we can demand decent standards. But will we? I know people who aren't even on the electoral roll, that's how apathetic they are. No wonder we're in such an woeful state in this country, with un-Australians like that.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:09am
    You call them privileged, I call them hard workers who provide $149billion ATO revenue which pays for welfare among other things. If we continue to raise taxes on these people while increasing welfare and making welfare more available your children will be wondering about your lack of foresight one day.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:32pm
    Yeah Frank. Less taxes for the rich. Maybe nothing is the right figure. It never changes from the right wing.
    Jim
    21st Jul 2015
    2:35pm
    Perhaps if we got rid of all state governments and their ongoing perks that last longer than some of them served, we might be able to balance our budgets, it's well known we are one of the most over governed people in the western world.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    7:58pm
    Never understood WHY we need 3 levels of government. Local government could be handled by a skeleton crew with funding going to community organisations rather than centralised bureaucracies to spend in their pet areas or just plain waste. As far a state governments go I am sure they could be combined with federal governments.
    As things stand there is no goodwill to fix any government as it is about jobs, jobs and jobs. Lets not hold our breath.
    thommo
    21st Jul 2015
    2:39pm
    Any tax cuts is not smart economics - it's blatant political opportunism. This Govt will probably try and bribe its way back into govt, but the electorate won't buy it. Why give tax breaks? if they can afford to give tax cuts, then why has this govt reduced the part age pension? Its because they don't give a stuff about pensioners, who they kick around at will. But it will be these pensioners who will turf this govt out of office come the next election for their act of treachery in changing the assets test, among other things they tried to do in the 2014 Budget which backfired on them for being grossly unfair, the trade mark for this fascist govt.
    Anonymous
    21st Jul 2015
    3:01pm
    Pensioners wouldn"t have voted Liberal in in the first place they almost all vote left wing so they won"t vote them out either.
    They had a grey party it was useless.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    8:02pm
    A Grey Party is badly needed to get proper representation for older Australians. Whoever does that properly will change politics forever in this country.
    thommo
    21st Jul 2015
    9:21pm
    Agreed Mick. I wrote to the CPSA recently and complained to them that they deserted the pensioners by supporting the Govt's changes to the assets test for age pensions etc, and their reply was "stiff cheddar" - they wanted the pension system be "sustainable". What a load of BS. It is sustainable if the govt taxes the right entities, including high earners, and lower the tax breaks for super contributions. Now the Govt (via Hockey) is today signalling tax cuts before the next elections. This is a blatant bribe to get back into power. If they can afford tax cuts, then they didn't need to change the assets test for the part-age pension. The CPSA sold out their constituency, ie the age pensioners,without consulting any pensioners and (who they claim to represent) and/or looking at the root cause of the budgetary problems. They are just as bad as the LNP Govt and the Judas Greens. They're a bunch of lying morons. This Govt is Fascist. they are becoming autrocratic and authoritarian.
    bebby
    21st Jul 2015
    3:46pm
    Robbo, you obviously don't know many pensioners. I know ten pensioners in a group of 15 who voted for Tony and still believe in him and his broken promises. Once again, I despair.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    8:07pm
    What's the definition of dementia? You just answered my question. Despair is probably the right word......although you would have to start pointing out the number of lies and at the end ask these people if they still think their idols are worth the time of day. Interesting.
    carmencita
    21st Jul 2015
    4:31pm
    As always, when politicians extend a 'carrot hand', they want something back. Otherwise, they simply lambast the public and withdraw services as if we owe them , forgetting that they are public servants.
    Oars
    21st Jul 2015
    5:00pm
    mick. Stop for a second, clean your glasses and think about a word called INCENTIVE. That is what people need to strive harder, create more business and income and get the jobs/spend/tax wheet running again. Without incentive we will return to the dark old days of Keating/Hawk/Gilkl/Rudd. Heaven forbid. Rational views from all leading economists give INCENTIVE the thumbs up- with tax cuts high on the list. The rest is "do-it-and-see- the-results. See, that was pretty easy,(both lenses) wasn't it ?
    mangomick
    21st Jul 2015
    7:27pm
    Lets look at Incentive . A young bloke working 40 hrs a week saves for a farm. What incentive does he get when he can't claim the interest that he pays on the loan for the farm against his other income but someone who is slightly more wealthy and has the same day job but also has enough cash so he can afford to buy $100000 worth of machinery to start with can straight away claim the interest he pays for his farm against his other income. That's a disincentive for the ordinary working bloke to try to get ahead. Just for the record that was the LNP that brought those changes in. Seems incentive is only for the already wealthy.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    8:10pm
    I'm all for incentive Oars...or is it Frank.
    "Incentive" pretty well explains the success my wife and I have had in life and I support this. What I do not support is the extreme bias against average Australians. The social justice hair on the back of the neck sees red with that one.

    21st Jul 2015
    5:30pm
    INCOME tax cuts are always a rort - they are always balanced by something else that goes up... and up.... and I can assure you that in the final figuring, no way will this government be giving you a biger share of your pie.

    That about says it all, apart from the near undeniable reality that the offer on the table will be - "Let us raise the GST to 12.5-13% and we'll give you income tax cuts."

    Now - as a pensioner - I DON'T PAY INCOME TAX - Why The Shaitan would I accept a tradeoff between lower income tax and extra GST. Do I look that stupid?

    As always this will end up being just another imposition on those with the least - and just a sneaky way of reducing pension value in the market - which is tantamount to a cut anyway.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    5:33pm
    Stupid part about rising the GST is that they are talking about compensating those on incomes of less the $100,000. This will only make it more complicated.
    Anonymous
    21st Jul 2015
    7:14pm
    If they are going to compensate people, why bother with it at all? Why not just ditch the GST entirely as a failure that has lead to government over-spending on non-essentials and non-core issues such as genuine infrastructure, and do a full review of taxation across the board and reduce taxes to income tax and a very few others?

    Or - as someone suggested - introduce a cash transfer tax on bank accounts or whatever?

    Or just have a GST and be done with the rest? The aim is to recoup 100% of government expenditure plus inflation and some extra to cater to future demands - does this not clearly show that taxation is designed to relieve you of as much as the government wants - no matter how it is done? Perhaps a full-time GST would capture some of the black market etc -but there is no GST on a transfer of two tonnes of hashish in containers etc.....
    Patriot
    21st Jul 2015
    7:31pm
    TREBOR
    Agree - do away with the GST altogether.
    Just get "STUCK INTO the FATCATS in order for them to pay their fair share!
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    7:43pm
    If you think your return on term deposits is is low now it will be even lower with a transfer tax on bank accounts. Why would you even bother putting your money in the bank if there was a transaction tax? I'd just be investing off shore in off shore bank accounts.

    Just about all taxes can be dodged so having only one tax like the GST would help the black market flourish.

    GST is actually quite a fair tax in that everyone pays it one what they spend. However it is one of the reasons why the black market still exists. Have you ever wondered why local markets are mostly cash only?
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    8:12pm
    The old shell game Trebor. But expect the same outcome: that average citizens are done over and that the well off do very nicely. When does that ever change?
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    8:12pm
    The old shell game Trebor. But expect the same outcome: that average citizens are done over and that the well off do very nicely. When does that ever change?

    21st Jul 2015
    5:31pm
    Here's a good laugh when it comes to 'budget emergencies'.....

    http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1437389531
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    5:35pm
    I think that belongs in another thread Trebor or in the rubbish bin as we have had enough of that rubbish.
    Patriot
    21st Jul 2015
    6:55pm
    Looks about "the truth" for the MADAM (???)
    mangomick
    21st Jul 2015
    7:16pm
    When Bonny says we have had enough of this rubbish she obviously means we have had enough of a Holier than thy, smug faced Politician, with her snout in the trough thumbing her nose in contempt at the Australian people. We couldn't agree more Bonny:-) She's a typical example of all that stinks with the LNP under Abbott's leadership.Lets hope we soon see an end to Abbott's ultra conservative hacks and get some real Liberal thinking politicians running the Country.
    Trebor they left out her broomstick with the gold plated handles.
    LiveItUp
    21st Jul 2015
    7:45pm
    It's just that it's now been overdone to death and time for some new news instead of rehashing stuff over and over again.
    MICK
    21st Jul 2015
    8:16pm
    What a classic Trebor. Love it. The captions so much capture the person.
    As I said previously Bonny methinks you are a Bronny staffer. Your reaction is exactly how Bishop would react.
    Virginia
    21st Jul 2015
    10:19pm
    Funny how this forum is so LABOUR.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    7:51am
    Yes Virginia labour avoidance is the common denominator here.

    The polls are almost pointing to a critical point of no return for Australia.
    Who would have thought that a wage earner on $100,000 needs welfare payments.

    Labor could put up a drovers dog at the next election with a 10% approval rating but people will not care providing Labor increase welfare and Public Service.
    Our children will suffer if we don't turn this around now.
    We cannot afford to sit idly while laziness and greed push us toward a Greek tragedy.
    Patriot
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:45am
    Frank
    Why do you suggest we elect the same candidates we have now in Parliament.
    Drover's Dogs are on the way out you know and I believe they will leave in DROVES with Helicopters.
    "Hang the expense" - as long as they leave !!!!!
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:46pm
    Patriot: Frank is a paid troll. He always posts government propaganda and whatever the topic is it always ends up being an anti union or anti Labor. A bit of a joke really.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:30pm
    Funny how some people say those who oppose certain things a government is doing automatically label them as labor.

    That's a bit like saying that because one hates bananas they must like apples.
    Virginia
    21st Jul 2015
    10:30pm
    We live in the best country in the world . The more easy it gets the more easy you want it. The better it gets; the better you want it without any effort. Save a penny or two from the coffees and the pokies and the booze; travel to where you think is better. Ha Ha you won't find any where Politicing is the same in both parties and you don't need to be 70 to realize this.
    Cruiser
    21st Jul 2015
    11:12pm
    Listen to the experts, no tax cuts whilst the country is in a budget emergency. We need revenue to cover the funds ripped off the States by the Libs. I would favour a cocktail of 2.5% increase in GST, tax on Super and reduction in the negative gearing and maybe a small increase to the medicare levy, lets fix the damn thing!! Take the pre election ploy of Hockey for what is, at best fanciful, at worst another lie to add to the previous many.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:14am
    Cruiser are you aware that by cutting marginal tax rates negative gearing is watered down? Not just on property, on all investments.
    Jen
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:26am
    Cruiser, we've already had (on July 1st) the equivalent of an increase in Medicare.
    Cruiser
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:59am
    Frank if you cut tax rates Govt gets less money and sure negative gearing deduction is watered down so investor gets less of a deduction but pays less tax, offset. Leave tax rates alone but limit negative gearing, Govt gets more money, investor loses a bit but makes a contribution to the budget emergency. Pensioners have contributed, now it's the turn of other sections of the community to contribute.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:19pm
    Cruiser: the last thing the nation needs is TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH. That is what Frank and his employer want. Just imagine how much more we will need to borrow from China if that happens.
    What we need is a government with some backbone and moral fibre which is prepared to:

    1. put an end to rich people using loopholes to escape the taxation system whilst leaving average Australians to pay the dues of the rich.
    2. end the superannuation Tax Shelter which rich Australians have been using to squirrel money into their personal superannuation accounts and not pay the top marginal rate, as they should be compelled to do.
    3. change legislation so that multinationals are forced to pay tax in Australia, not places where taxes are artificially lowered to attract these companies.
    4. Ban Frank from posting his LNP advertisements. Give the guy a helicopter please!
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:14pm
    mick you don't want workers to get a tax cut because they need to fund big business.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:28pm
    ???? Tony must be working you too hard Frank.
    geomac
    22nd Jul 2015
    12:00am
    How can Hockey speculate on tax cuts when he has blown the budget out by 100 billion ? What happened to the debt crisis he and Abbott were banging on about but have gone silent of late. Frankly after the budgets of the coalition particularly the first one who would believe a word Hockey or for that matter Abbott utters ?
    Of course the question of how any tax cuts would be affordable has to be asked and there is no answer. If the GST were to be raised it would have to go to health and education because of the 80 billion cuts by the coalition. So no money there for tax cuts unless the coalition cuts health and education even further than the broken promises it has already done.
    If one of the major problems is lack of revenue despite the coalition raising taxes and costs in various ways why would any govt cut taxes ?
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    7:32am
    Instead of tax cuts, how about sending out cheques to all Liberal voters? That should stimulate something at least.
    Jen
    22nd Jul 2015
    7:39am
    Well stated Geomac.

    If people get sucked in by this and any further "sweeteners," then we surely do have an IQ problem in Australia.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:23pm
    Thanks geomac. I have stated on numerous occasions that Abbott removed the debt ceiling so that his government could go on a spending spree with no end. He has. But now I do not see the trolls exclaiming this as I did when the previous governments went on a spending spree to stop Australia joining the unemployment queue after the GFC hit.
    Oh how quickly we all forget the lies and rhetoric from this disreputable government.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:38pm
    Wonder how Hockey is going to pay his $800k legal bill he has suddenly found he had to pay for the suit he had a against Fairfax. Hope he isn't going to call it government business and claim it on expenses.
    sirmikd
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:31am
    If tax cuts are given on income and funded by GST increase-
    Remember if you are a retiree your nest egg will depreciate overnight by 5% or what ever the increase in GST is. You have no way of getting a wage increase to cover it.
    So how much GST is enough ? We know we cant trust any of them to spend it wisely [ think helicopter trips !]
    So THINK very carefully before SUPORTING GST INCREASES - It will never go down again but give in to this and you make it easier for the next hike when they need it.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:27pm
    I agree. An increase of 5% in the GST is an instant tax on the poor. The corollary is that the rich cannot escape it with tax loopholes and have to pay as well, although I am sure they will get around this too. They always do.
    No easy answer to several decades of morons governing us who have been happy to flog off everything we own to foreigners. Now the chickens are starting to come back home to roost. This is the price of electing a government and not being militant when it misbehaves. One has to watch them like a hawk. None are to be trusted.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:19pm
    If you add another 5% GST to the existing 10% then prices would rise by 4.54% not 5%. There are many items which do not have GST at the moment.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:39pm
    But frank Abbo is trying to get it on everything.
    Adrianus
    23rd Jul 2015
    8:28am
    I saw a few Labor Premiers in the meeting.
    They will be locked away like a jury to decide on our economic fate.
    When they do emerge it will be a consensus but you will soon see some weasel words from those who would sell their mother to the slave traders if it made them look good.
    mangomick
    23rd Jul 2015
    6:59pm
    You should be a Liberal spin Doctor Frank with figures like those as a selling point.
    Yes admittedly the rise is actually 4.4545% but on a $100 item poor old Joe Citizen now has to pay $115 for that $100 item .

    22nd Jul 2015
    9:45am
    What is the point of these editorials they just attract the same half dozen labor rat bag supporters saying Soak the rich .
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:34am
    Pete, I am beginning to ask that same question.
    geomac
    22nd Jul 2015
    6:35pm
    Frank you seem to be an enthusiastic contributor to these articles whenever I pop in. Obviously you are attracted to either the articles or just like the sport. If you don,t like the articles don,t read them or post replies, easy enough to do. This article seems straight and topical so whats the complaint ? After all its not a Pickering site or the Tele so its maybe not biased or vehemently anti something enough.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    7:42pm
    geo would it suit you if I stopped posting?
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:35pm
    geomac: Frank only appears on any topic to do with government. Frank ALWAYS posts anti Labor and anti union crap, even when the article has no relationship to politics.

    As far as the defense of the rich above I say: follow the money trail and you will see whose interests matter. It should come as no surprise that loopholes for the rich seem to left alone for a long long time before being forced to close by public outrage...with the next one popping up shortly thereafter.
    I'll soak the rich. There some decent people who have money but many have no morals and expect the rest of society to pay all of the bills (tax) whilst they spend up like there is no tomorrow and pay zilch tax as a percentage of their earnings. Will that do?
    geomac
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:44pm
    Frank it would not worry me one way or the other. I was responding to your post. It seemed a bit like the kettle calling the pot black.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:45pm
    That right Mick there are decent people with money I know a few.

    Remember the Buffett rule. Came about when the owner of a business realised he was paying less tax than his secretary and earning a million dollars a year. His accountants did all his tax stuff and was only by chance he found out.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2015
    8:50am
    Buffett never said he pays less tax than his secretary he said he paid a lower rate , that is because the multi millions he makes and is taxed on is from capital gains which are taxed at a lower rate than personal income tax...
    Adrianus
    23rd Jul 2015
    7:17pm
    That's right Pete, but you're spoiling their fun. They think nobody but the poor pay taxes.
    mangomick
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:00am
    I see the NSW,Vic and Qld premiers together this morning all taking a bi-partisan approach to achieve a result that will be good for all their constituents. What a refreshing change. Libs should be courting Baird to move eventually into the Federal Liberal leadership role. He is definitely head and shoulders above Abbott but then again so is Turnbull ,Julie Bishop , Morrison and my neighbours dog.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:29am
    I saw the footpath press interview on sky.
    I noticed a willingness on the part of Baird and Hodgman to focus on the opportunity to look for solutions across a whole range of issues now that they all uniformly identify the problems. mango if you are honest you would have noticed a bloody mindedness underlying the political rhetoric in the talk of Palaszczuk, Andrews and Weatherill. They are uncomfortable, possibly because they are too focussed on how they may come out of this meeting politically. That's the difference you see in Baird, he is there to look for solutions.
    mangomick
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:11am
    Geez Frank that die hard Liberal antagonism towards anything Labor must be instilled in their followers at birth and must never ever leave. But then again I don't subscribe to sky and the interview I saw had all the Premiers coming across equally as well as each other.
    Wstaton
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:13am
    Ditto and the bloody mindedness to follow the way Abbott wants them to go.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    12:13pm
    Either way those 3 would do well to avoid that situation again with Baird and Hodgman.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:41pm
    The next political advertisement mangomick. Frank is a case isn't he.
    Whilst it was all smiles today I await to see the detail. As they say the devil is always in the detail.
    I would say that Australian is starting to be the most over-taxed nation on the planet. Sure we need money to run the nation but this needs to come from much less government waste, from collecting taxes from those who believe do not and to pay and by closing loopholes which enable the rich to skip town. Simple really. Just takes political will power to stand up to those who have the pockets to fund media campaigns against proper government. Tell you what though.....do it right and the country will support ANT government which goes after those who seek to avoid their responsibilities.
    mangomick
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:52pm
    True enough. If the Government just removed the ability for businesses to claim back the GST it would give them more than enough revenue to pay for hospitals and infrastructure without having to increase it. . Now businesses, tradies and primary produces claim back the GST component and also claim back the cost of the item against their income. It's only the working stiff who are contributing to the GST coffers
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:50pm
    mango I have previously overestimated your understanding of the situation we now find ourselves in. I can understand mick not having a grip given his medical condition but you should know better.
    If you listened to Glenn Stevens address to the Anika Foundation Luncheon today you would have picked up on what our economic concerns are. Granted he is very guarded with his language, but sometimes its what he doesn't say that you need to listen for.
    Get a copy and you will probably come to the conclusion that your idea will never grow legs.
    Here you go;
    http://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2015/sp-gov-2015-07-22.html
    mangomick
    22nd Jul 2015
    11:05pm
    Frank one minute you are saying Business shouldn't be subsidised and when I suggest that Businesses , Primary producers and Tradies should have to pay GST on the goods they buy you are quick to tell me I am wrong. All I am saying is that instead of Government raising the GST ,which is what they want to do and will have the negative effect of slowing household spending and stifling economic recovery, they should remove the exemptions that currently exist to certain sections of the community and spread the GST tax burden more equally between the population and it will strengthen the Governments coffers. I'm not advocating maintaining welfare at the same levels and raising productivity is the real answer to improving the economy but I was just stating a fact that raising GST is not the panacea for wealth that the current Government is calling for but they only needed to include it for everything and for everyone and the rate could probably even be lowered. I only quickly browsed through the link you provided and I could not see anywhere where Glenn Stevens put up any argument for supporting GST inequality in the favour of Business or primary production.
    Adrianus
    23rd Jul 2015
    8:03am
    My take home point from Steven's speech was his slight frustration with tightening of monetary policy not encouraging the risk takers. These risk takers are the entrepreneurs you want to tax. We could be such a prosperous nation if we weren't held back by political ideology.
    I may sound repetitive but I go back to the big mistake of Henry and Rudd to up the Lender of last resort guarantee on savings bank deposits. Turnbull should share some of the blame for that too, by trying to back Rudd into a corner. More than anything else imo this sent our risk takers on a flight to safety, and they aren't budging. During the Rudd period household savings increased dramatically. Much of the stimulus money went to debt reduction.
    There is $90b sitting in mortgage offset accounts. Hockey was criticised recently for encouraging households to get out there and borrow to have a go. Banks are willing to lend but surprisingly traditional borrowers are not borrowing.
    But that is exactly what is needed.

    Fanning is not about to get back in the water immediately and while followers of surfing wait to see when that will be, we have the same scenario playing out with our risk takers.
    mangomick
    23rd Jul 2015
    10:02am
    Frank
    The Worlds Economists and bankers tried to push the populace into taking riskier investments by artificially holding down interest rates and printing money to artificially prop up share markets. If Rudd and Henry hadn't guaranteed those funds in the bank there would have been a run on the banks which had the potential to drop us into depression. Don't forget many saw their superannuation nest egg half. Just because they are risk takers doesn't mean they should have an open license to bludge on the community by not paying their share of the tax burden. Many of these smalkl enterprises dont pay GST,Tax or employ anyone. I have owned a farming enterprise and have been around long enough to be well aware of the various rorts used by tradies, farmers and business people to avoid paying both tax and GST while minimizing the tax they should be paying while they hold down a job that pays a salary. The Government would be wiser to rather than just make GST exempt for businesses allow them to offset it against things like apprentice training . That way we wouldn't need 457 visas and our countries skills base and productivity would increase and our social welfare bill would shrink..
    Adrianus
    23rd Jul 2015
    11:06am
    mango
    Training of any kind is an allowable deduction which reduces the cost to corporations by 30%, sole traders and partnerships by possibly more. So why would only a 10% reduction in training costs suddenly trigger an increase in productivity and reduce the need for 457s?
    I was referring to legitimate small to medium enterprises with 6 to 400 employees, while you are talking about a tradie, possibly with no employees, who may be a sole director. Different proposition.
    Businesses do pay GST on their goods and services but it is offset by GST collected, which I may say is at the cost of the business.
    If a business isn't sending GST to the ATO then that would mean its costs are higher than its income. Unless it deals in something like pizza pastry or the like.
    Many may have seen their super halved but also many small businesses were sacrificed by the RBA easing monetary policy while the rest of the world was tightening. Just so our balance of payments looked good.
    I agree with you on the point that our tax system needs to be modified so that the tradie who isn't registered for GST and keeps his taxable income below $75k doesn't get away with having a negatively geared investment to rub our noses in it.
    I say separate personal exertion income and income derived from capital investment. It wouldn't be hard to do because it IS separate up until the time it goes on the tax return.
    mangomick
    23rd Jul 2015
    3:05pm
    Guess that's the difference. I see the smaller enterprise that is not employing anyone, doesn't pay tax and are buying equipment not necessary related to their core business GST free. They don't in anyway contribute to the nations Tax burden.
    Then again you have large businesses that structure their affairs around tax avoidance and minimisation and also do not contribute their share towards the nations tax burden. It's not like they can't afford to pay their fair share. Putting some form of a GST component on the end user items they buy for their business would share the tax burden of the country around.The old arguement that they are creating jobs for workers doesn't hold as true today as yesterday because many businesses are replacing workers with technology. Technology they don't pay GST on and yet claim it as a tax deduction.
    Adrianus
    23rd Jul 2015
    4:22pm
    "Technology they don't pay GST on and yet claim it as a tax deduction. "
    mango how does that work?
    mangomick
    23rd Jul 2015
    5:33pm
    Are your trying to pull my chain Frank . correct me if I am wrong but a company puts in a machine that takes the place of several workers or technology that automatically drives their locomotives and dump trucks without drivers needed. Being a business they claim back the GST component of the end product they acquired to make this happen and then write the cost of the capital equipment off on their depreciation schedule over how ever many years it takes.
    Kaz
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:37pm
    I think Howard promised to reform the tax system and all that happened was another tax (gst)!
    It is simply considered too hard to do in a term - but they could have experts undertaking it in the background over a number of years with bipartisan support of it.
    Working with vulnerable people in my career has caused me to see the effect of decisions made by short term and even longer term governments. While I have voted differently over the years at various times, I am very tired of the current double standards and dum-dum reactive rhetoric! I think even Frank must be finding it difficult to support the current self-believing-entitled-ones!
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:44pm
    No government has the guts to take on the big end of town. The poor will vote you out and the rich will run propaganda campaigns against you. So is it any wonder that the rich always win?
    Kaz
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:40pm
    ...and is it just me, or is there something sinister about cutting health and education funding to a nation?
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    4:44pm
    Funding for health and education has not been cut. It has increased each year of this government.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jul 2015
    7:52pm
    And into forward estimates ,,,
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:46pm
    Cut education and you run the risk of dumbing down the nation. Don't laugh. Cut health and people who need treatment are refused. I think that the way forward is to weed out the rorts and streamline these areas, not cut.
    LiveItUp
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:18pm
    We already have far too many people doing university degrees and will soon have no one qualified to do the menial chores. Go to uni today and you are lucky if there is a job at the end.

    Our public health system is not very efficient and needs a decent audit of it's procedures to improve these inefficiencies.
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:25pm
    Lets import more people on 457 visas Bonny. There are more than enough people to do trades and less skilled manual work. The issue we have here in Australia is that people who want to do nothing is a growth industry.
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:35pm
    Why do we now have a funding shortfall?? What could possibly have happened during the last 8 years?
    Adrianus
    22nd Jul 2015
    9:52pm
    I think you are right Bonny. Patriot is on his third degree and still cannot get a job.
    Anonymous
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:46pm
    We should cease free GP visits for all at taxpayers expense , we should cease incentivatng doctors to bulk bill , we should charge for Austrlian citizenship. We should cease taxing savings foR old age ....
    Anonymous
    22nd Jul 2015
    10:48pm
    Libertarians should join the LDP
    geomac
    23rd Jul 2015
    11:38am
    249 million for chaplains as long as they are chaplains who belong to a creed is good money ? And the baby jesus will take care of you but the devil will lead you to hell children. That says it all about this govt.
    Circum
    22nd Jul 2015
    5:27pm
    If the treasurer is unable to save mega billions by increasing productivity in spending the public purse then he needs to reconsider his suitability for his position.For decades when the public asked for wage increases,they were told increases should be based on productivity increases (agree).Shouldnt the same principal apply in the government wanting to raise more money?
    Hmmm I see.No qualifications in improving processes or productivity.
    Next best option is to increase taxation rates.Thats a lot fairer than a GST increase.
    No need to spend millions working out how to compensate the less well off and associated administration .
    MICK
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:47pm
    After having to pay his own court costs the Treasurer may need to "get a better job".
    geomac
    23rd Jul 2015
    11:43am
    Well the article was accurate and thats the main defence in court. Hockey knew it was accurate but thought he could pull a swifty. People were paying to have his ear which is providing himself for sale.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2015
    12:53pm
    Corporate leaders will get exclusive access to Bill Shorten and key Labor frontbenchers at this weekend’s ALP conference under a $10,000-a-head business observer program being run in parallel with the conference.

    Sources said the fundraising program was expected to attract about 100 business leaders, generating about $1 million in revenue for the party as the prospect of a federal election looms.

    An invitation to the Business Observer Program seen by The Australian confirms the cost of $10,000 per head, or $7500 for members of the ALP’s Federal Labor Business Forum, a network of ALP-friendly firms and corporate leaders.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2015
    12:54pm
    Today's OZ
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2015
    12:56pm
    Mick Fairfax have to pay all their own costs and Fifteen per cent of Joes Joe has the 200,000 awarded in damages to pay the difference. Fairfax shareholders have to wear the lot ...

    22nd Jul 2015
    7:50pm
    What a peculiar headline tax cuts is it fair .,,,
    Kato
    22nd Jul 2015
    8:46pm
    This man is a moron and should never have the position he has.
    Adrianus
    23rd Jul 2015
    4:27pm
    I agree Kato!
    Here's a more recent description of him.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbnYlMQq3CA&feature=player_detailpage
    Wstaton
    23rd Jul 2015
    9:08pm
    Who the heck are you talking about kato.
    Anonymous
    24th Jul 2015
    11:23am
    Bill Shorten
    Teddyboy.
    23rd Jul 2015
    2:27pm
    Typical Libs. Howard wasted billions when he was in and now Hockey wants to follow suit. Hasn't even got the budget in order and he wants to start handing money to his backers.
    Never mind tax cuts, lets invest in infrastructure and jobs if we have any to spare.
    Anonymous
    23rd Jul 2015
    3:12pm
    I would rather waste my own money than give it to a government to waste ...
    Gigi
    23rd Jul 2015
    6:22pm
    Funny, I thought the discussion was about proposed TAX CUTS, discussion on the HENRY REPORT & PriecWaterhouseCoopers financial modeling but NO, Polly basing is all we seem capable of doing! There IS a need for an intelligent discussion on this issue. Possibly thats why we are in debt because we spend our time pretending our pollies are responsible but it the voter thats responsible. Perhaps we have finally made it to "BANANA REPUBLIC"
    geomac
    23rd Jul 2015
    8:08pm
    Definitely fruitcakes in govt.
    disillusioned
    24th Jul 2015
    11:09am
    I don't believe anything this Liberal Government promises - they are without conscience.
    Anonymous
    24th Jul 2015
    9:37pm
    Those whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad. Then they make them join the Labor Party. Then, if they’re feeling especially vindictive, they make them leader of the Labour Party.
    mangomick
    24th Jul 2015
    9:50pm
    Don't know what you are drinking there Pete but you might want to put just a little less in the glass ;-)
    Not Senile Yet!
    24th Jul 2015
    11:34pm
    They are lying about the Deficit......they are lying about how bad it is ,,,,,,just as they lied about everything else to get elected!!!!
    This Government is spending more on Defence and More on Buying Defence Planes and boats.......and most of the largest debts are being run up on Long Term Defence contracts to keep up with the Jones's (America & Others) in the Western World!!!
    At present per head of Population we have blown our Defence spending for the past 30 years and whilst either Party are in control it will continue for the next 30yrs......yet we are not at War nor are we under physical attack.....nor will we ever be with America as our defender/allie!!!!!
    Both Party Machines are overspending on Our Armed Forces to make themselves look good!!!
    We have a population of 30 Million NOT 300Million.....we cannot justify our Expenditure per head of population on Defence.....when we do NOT have a reasonable REASON for it!!!!
    Any Invasion in the future will come from within by other Nations buying up Australia......that we know.....and so does our Political Parties!!!!
    Time to Vote all the Party Puppets out of OUR Parliament......if only to send them a clear message.....we are tired of their lying two-faced standards and their belief that we Won't!!!
    mangomick
    25th Jul 2015
    8:27am
    I have long been a believer that Australia's Defence Force should be downsized and should become a Humanitarian and disaster relief force. i.e our capabilities i.e boats and aircraft designed to swiftly move into any area and provide an emergency response in our region and around the world to aid in Natural disaster assistance through evacuation,water treatment, medical, temporary accommodation and repair of vital infrastructure.This might show the world that Australians are humanitarians not aggressors and hopefully lead other countries to demilitarize. To move from a Defence Force to a humanitarian force would mean that all able bodied men and women would have to undergo a period of National Service to ensure our defense capabilities should any country think we were an easy target. Defence spending is usually a percentage of GDP regardless of which party is in power and reliance on America to come to our aid in any conflict that is of little consequence to the U.S.A is misguided.
    Not Senile Yet!
    24th Jul 2015
    11:43pm
    For the last 25 yrs every wage increase has been attached to a productivity increase....time to do the same to the Politicians for the next 25yrs.
    Every election they should be required to remove 10% of their numbers both State & Federal BEFORE they are entitled to any wage rise!!!!
    That would mean that by 2040 we should be only paying for Half the amount of Politicians at State & Federal Level......what a massive savings that would be towards the deficit!!!!
    Further to that all Mp's .....regardless of Party backing ....should be entitled to vote how they please on every Bill presented......and if a Party Backer penalises them for voting against them .....then that Party should be fined the amount paid to the MP whilst in office!!!
    Perhaps that might allow those who disagree with their party to vote without being Blackmailed!!!!!!
    BB1
    25th Jul 2015
    10:37am
    Australia cannot afford TAX cuts, we have a debt to pay off which someone left to us. Now we see them (Labor Party) promising to spend money on things we just cannot afford.
    Double the amount of people allowed to come to Australia as much as it pains me to have to say it we just cannot afford it. We have our own people out of work then bring in more who will be a burden on our Social Security System.
    Joe has to look at our Tax system and get it fixed up.
    Finally - ask yourself - have you ever been employed by a poor person. No - only the rich, maybe not directly but by the money they have invested in Australia and Australian Companies.
    All I can say, Wake up Australia - before it is too late and we end up being like Greece.
    Adrianus
    25th Jul 2015
    11:18am
    Shorten's Labor has no leadership. They don't stand for anything.
    Labor continue to pander to minority groups at Australia's expense. It's the usual Labor way, say anything to get electorate support then have a change of mind in government.

    Just 30 months ago in Government Chris Bowen was asked why not increase refugee intake?
    His answer...."because we cannot afford it."

    Shorten will also pander to the CFMEU and tear down our Free Trade Agreement with China. Our biggest customer. We import $50b and export $100b to China.

    According to Penny Wong if Labor get back in, they will review all Free Trade Agreements.
    This is a dangerous party.
    mangomick
    25th Jul 2015
    11:30am
    I was employed by a company that went bankrupt,does that count?
    Greece debt to GDP 175%. Japan debt to GDP 245%. Have you ever heard our Government say if we don't raise our GST or if we don't cut pensions we are going to be just like Japan. No, neither have I. It's not debt to GDP that counts it's productivity and allowing our jobs and wealth to vanish overseas isn't helping. You can't tax yourself to prosperity.
    Adrianus
    25th Jul 2015
    12:04pm
    BB1, while we may not be able to afford tax cuts, we cannot afford not to have a shift in the source of our tax revenue. Why not reduce tax on productivity and increase tax revenue from consumption? Particularly from imports? We may find manufacturing in Australia becomes more favourable as a result?
    Wstaton
    26th Jul 2015
    3:35am
    Well that's the way to go. Keep the gst at 10% on all goods produced in Australia and increase to 20% the gst on all imported goods.
    mangomick
    26th Jul 2015
    6:52am
    You don't reckon that would be contrary to Abbott and Robbs free trade agreement do you?
    We could put 10% GST on Mildura oranges and 20% on oranges from California. That will win the hearts of our citrus growers if there are any left. Of course we will call it GST .We could hardly call it a tariff not after all of Andrew Robbs "good work".
    Adrianus
    26th Jul 2015
    7:43am
    No, the unions don't need any help in destroying our FTAs. I was thinking of simply collecting all the GST on imports. The way it works now you could import as much as you like providing you don't exceed $1,000 in any single transaction. Why should we have a system which is contrary to our "buy Australian made" push?
    mangomick
    26th Jul 2015
    12:08pm
    I was responding to Wstatons suggestion that local goods be taxed at 10% GST and increase the GST on imported goods to 20% . Who mentioned anything about unions.
    Adrianus
    26th Jul 2015
    1:13pm
    mango I was responding to both yours and Wstaton's posts. I mentioned the unions. I thought it is worth mentioning, because if they get back in government they will work to pull down the FTAs. In 6 years they only put together a little FTA with Chile I think it was and it doesn't really benefit Australia as much as it does for Chile. You only need to look at the scare ads on tv run by the CFMEU to know that they just don't like them. If Shorten wants to keep his job then he needs to do what he is told.
    geomac
    26th Jul 2015
    8:32pm
    The USA FTA was such great news but it meant 6 billion more going their way rather our way. That great news put us 6 billion a year behind in trade balance and like the latest trade deals the sugar farmers were shafted. The reality is that these are not free trade deals but selective trade deals with winners and losers. What we might gain should be compared to what we are likely to lose including our right to make health regulations without hte threat of litigation by a multinational. China now has the right to bring in workers to do jobs in Australia without regard to the local workforce and without regard to our trade/qualification standards. That is not rumour but but part of the written agreement.
    geomac
    26th Jul 2015
    8:39pm
    The new Free Trade Agreement with China has raised fears of for mining safety standards, in light of new terms which will allow Chinese mine owners to bring in their own Chinese workers on temporary work visas.

    Australian Mining Association chairman George Edwards told SBS he feared Chinese workers were used to lower safety standards, which would make it difficult for them to operate in an environment with higher standards.
    http://www.miningaustralia.com.au/news/free-trade-agreement-means-more-chinese-work-visas
    geomac
    26th Jul 2015
    8:41pm
    Potential negatives for Australia:

    No tariff reductions for sugar, rice, wool, cotton, wheat, maize or canola
    If Chinese imports of beef or milk powders exceed certain limits, China has the discretion to apply additional customs duties
    Threshold for Foreign Investment Review Board screening of Chinese investments in "non-sensitive sectors" (ie. excludes agriculture, media, telecoms and defence) rises from $252 million to $1,094 million
    Chinese firms will have some rights to sue Australian governments for policy changes that adversely affect their interests
    Chinese investors in projects valued over $150 million will receive additional rights to bring in temporary migrant workers to Australia without local labour market testing
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-17/china-australia-free-trade-agreement-pros-and-cons/6553680
    mangomick
    27th Jul 2015
    8:27am
    Yep. I posted on this site some time ago my reservations about certain aspects of the FTA . Particularly the Investor State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provision. Basically it means our own Government cannot pass any legislation aimed at protecting the health and safety of Australian people or environment without them being subject to legal action should it impact on a Multi-National Company's bottom line. Think plain paper packages on cigarettes and refunds on plastic coke bottles. And this just doesn't apply to Chinese companies. It applies to companies in a host of other countries as well. The Government of Canada was sued by a Multi-national pesticide company after the Canadian Government tried to ban certain pesticides in their own Country.
    Adrianus
    27th Jul 2015
    9:33am
    Let's get one thing clear for those who think these FTAs are no good for Australia. As with most commercial agreements there is some give and take in negotiations. If an agreement does not benefit all parties then usually it doesn't fly.
    Also for an agreement to be successful in the long term it is also common practice to install some safe guards to ensure penalties if certain aspects are breached.
    Australian firms will also have some rights to sue Chinese governments for policy changes that adversely affect their interests.
    It is no wonder that the unions could not put together a decent FTA while they were in government for 6 years. They simply cannot get past their antiquated ideology. 100 years ago being an island was an advantage because we had a natural moat. It's time to let go, embrace the global economy on our terms, while we have the wealthy nation status.
    mangomick
    27th Jul 2015
    9:56am
    So Frank what you are saying is that you have no problem with a chemical company suing a Canadian Government because they banned the use of 2-4D in their country.It's one thing to embrace free trade when the playing field is completely flat it's completely different matter when you allow in an agreement which is only a smattering of free trade and is selective in it's practices to the benefit of a few and the detriment of others. All to the echos of "one day ,one day. Well by the time that one day comes around Australian businesses will find they have been conned much in the same way our sugar industry invested time and money into exporting their sugar technology to overseas countries only to find that the Countries they were bending over backwards to help bought German machines and not Australian machines and now all our harvester and farm equipment manufacturers are gone.
    Adrianus
    27th Jul 2015
    10:11am
    BB1, many posters here reckon it's the poor who create jobs. Are you sure it is the wealthy risk takers?
    Adrianus
    27th Jul 2015
    10:28am
    mango, I don't know enough about 24D or the law suit to comment, but it seems that the Canadian Health Department needs to make up their mind if it is a danger to people and animals or not. Did you use it on your mango farm? how long has 24D been banned in Australia?
    mangomick
    27th Jul 2015
    12:02pm
    2-4D and 2-4-5T were the dioxins that were used in agent orange.They were commonly used in lawn sprays just as asbestos was used in cigarette filters. I don't think it is smart to keep something in use when evidence shows it is a known carcinogenic but then again Government policy, particularly the Abbott government Policy often astounds me. The FTA ISDS provision is being shown to hamper Governments from banning suspected Drugs and chemicals due to that provision. This would effect State and Local Councils mainly due to the cost of litigation. It's a ridiculous ill thought out clause to allow through. May have merit in some cases but I can see it being a nightmare should genetic modified foods turn out to be not so innocent and a State or Local Government tries to ban it or if a State Government wants to shut down a dirty brown coal fired power station.
    Adrianus
    27th Jul 2015
    12:32pm
    Really??? I thought the $2m lawsuit brought on by Dow was partially successful because the Canadian Health Authority stated that 2-4,D was not harmful? I am often astounded by policies from Labor as well. So we think alike he he he.
    The 3 day Labor conference has wound up and I must admit I only saw snippets. High on the agenda were things like;
    More power to Trade Unions.
    Sexual Diversification.
    Tax on electricity bills.
    More taxes on Super.
    Shorten sitting on the fence with Border Security.
    Was there any talk about how they would fix up the mess they made with the Federal Budget? If there was I missed it.
    Wstaton
    27th Jul 2015
    12:41pm
    Yes and whats happening in America with the protect Monsanto Protection Act. I cannot believe that this is trying to be pushed through by congress to force sellers of products being sold with GMO content to stop stating this on packages even though laws have been passed by several states saying that they have to. Apart from this this act bars federal courts from being able to halt the sale or planting of controversial genetically modified (aka GMO) or genetically engineered (GE) seeds, no matter what health issues may arise concerning GMOs in the future.

    You can bet your bottom dollar that this will end up being used through the FTA to bar other countries from doing what they need to do to protect it's citizens.

    It's things like this that terrify me for our future and for our kids.

    Many things that this government is trying to push though (really mainly for the benefit of the rich kids) One for example, where this government is trying to push through for the benefit of the top 700 rich people that their financials should not be made public. Why they say? because will lead to that they may be taken hostage. Now how many rich Australians have been taken hostage for gain in the past? "None". How many in the future probably "None" So why is Abbott trying to get the Xbenchers in the senate to pass it?

    One to gag the ATO, two so these people can't be exposed when they are found to rort the system. Can't think of anything else.

    These things keep coming up and one can't think "Whats behind all this.

    The final one is this employee super funds which are doing so well for their members. They have not been caught up in all the financial rorts of the for profit financial institutions yet the government is having a go at the not for profit super funds. After the numerous rorts of the general financial institutions the government sees no reason to have a commission of enquiry into them. But! you can bet your second dollar that if there was the slightest sniff of any in the employees super funds that one would be started by this government.

    By the way Frank before you start screaming I am a labor stooge I have never been a member of a union and rarely vote labor.
    mangomick
    27th Jul 2015
    12:58pm
    Unfortunately Frank has this thing whereas you denounce Abbott and he brands you Labor. I'm not a member of the Union either although through my working life I have been and have seen their good side and bad side. I don't give my undying support to any particular party and tend to look at the leadership of a Party their policies and the quality of their Local member before casting my vote. Poor old Frank has this anti Abbott =anti LNP box he likes to put everyone in. He can't see the forest for the trees which is strange because this government seems intent on pushing down all those trees and forests..
    Wstaton
    27th Jul 2015
    1:07pm
    Well frank it is banned in Australia and many other countries. Similar to roundup that was found to contain carcinogens. (guess who that is made by, Monsanto of course)

    Just because one country deems it safe does not mean it is anyway Canada seems to always follow America.

    Oh! by the way Frank It still is banned for a lot of uses in several Canadian provinces.
    mangomick
    27th Jul 2015
    1:54pm
    Frank i wasn't specifically referring to Dow Corporation. There was also another case raised by Chemtura Corp because the Government stopped using Lindane. In humans, lindane affects the nervous system, liver and kidneys, and may be a carcinogen.Eventually the claims were dismissed by the tribunal
    You missed the point though that governments are supposed to act in the best interest of their citizens. (I know that's hard for an Abbott supporter to grasp). if Governments can't Govern without the threat of litigation every time they make a decision then the Government we have in place isn't running the country , the multi-nationals are. I know you are all for big business but I bet you don't want them making the decisions as to what your neighbour is spraying on you from his side of the fence based on a multi national companies bottom line.
    geomac
    27th Jul 2015
    2:13pm
    Crikey article
    Last week the chairman of the Productivity Commission, Peter Harris, proposed that his organisation undertake a formal assessment of the TPP's costs and benefits before Australia signs it. It would be a small price to pay for having an independent assessment of exactly what good -- and what harm -- the TPP will do to Australia. Remember, this is an agreement that will enable foreign companies to use foreign courts to sabotage public policy here via investor-state dispute settlement. It's a big deal.

    But in keeping with the obsessive secrecy of DFAT's negotiations, the government is deeply resistant to any scrutiny of the deal.

    Why? If DFAT's bureaucrats and Andrew Robb haven't done anything to damage our national interests in negotiating the treaty, they should welcome the scrutiny. If they've done nothing wrong, they will have nothing to hide.
    mangomick
    27th Jul 2015
    2:37pm
    Fat chance the veil of secrecy will be lifted.This keep them in the dark philosophy is a trade mark of abbotts leadership. How much has it cost the Australian taxpayer for the Government to fight the tobacco companies resistance to plain paper packages. They wont tell you. The move to plain paper packaging could save the health system and our government billions of dollars in medical costs and lost productivity over the long term. And yet the tobacco company is fighting tooth and nail to defend their own bottom line regardless of the implications because of the ISDS provision that is included in the various FTAs and the TPPs .
    Adrianus
    27th Jul 2015
    2:56pm
    BB1, everyone is now disowning Labor for some reason?
    mango, I don't know why you think I'm "all for big business"? I just don't have a deep seated hatred for any entities or people like most of you. If there is someone within an organisation who is doing the wrong thing then I'm quite happy for the book to be thrown at them.
    Unlike you people, I do think the Abbott government is doing an admirable job of governing in the best interest of all Australians.
    Wstaton, you can still buy roundup in Australia.
    Wstaton
    27th Jul 2015
    3:00pm
    Considering the government is winging about rising health costs. Plain paper
    packaging should be the one thing that we should tell the FTA to go and get stuffed.

    Much the same with fossil fuels that Abbott tells us is good for humanity.

    I came across a article that said research two university professors conducted on the cost of using fossil fuels. They stated that for the Hazelwood power plant alone. (the one that sent residents fleeing from Morwell Vic.) contributes $900 million a year to global warming, health costs etc.

    No Frank these were not labor stooges. They were professors from the USA.

    This was called "The hidden Costs of Fossil Fuels" conveniently hidden when Abbott spouts about the cost of renewable energy. Maybe we should add the cost to the taxpayer of giving money to polluters to stop polluting.

    Doesn't seem to be happening since emissions have reversed since the carbon tax was removed. Shouldn't the cost to the tax payer of this so called Direct action plan have been taken away from the cost of the carbon tax to show if it did cost more or not.
    Mak
    27th Jul 2015
    3:44pm
    A better idea, tear up the order for 72 F35 strike 'planes for the RAAF. $12 BILLION already to be spent on 58 of the problematic, computer malfunctioning, oil-leaking, redundant toy-for-boys.
    Five years overdue, six years away for delivery, and a cost blow-out of mega-millions.

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/the-1-trillion-f35-tries-to-be-all-things-but-succeeds-at-few-say-critics-but-is-australias-new-weapon-now-too-big-to-fail/story-e6frfrnr-1226950254330

    There is not a political party available who could run Australia efficiently, running the Treasury is simple arithmetic, not rocket science.
    geomac
    27th Jul 2015
    4:03pm
    12 billion and thats not a set price as the costs keep rising and the problems persist. Even then the plane we signed up for is not the plane we will get as various functions and capabilities are compromised. Meanwhile other countries are buying jets that are comparable to the high promises of the USA strike plane for a lower cost and actually do the job better. Howard signed up to a jet that was only a paper project and Abbott has committed to the same jets that years later are yet to solve resolve its problems. What are the tanks that we bought doing these days ? Never here of them doing anything or being used anywhere. Maybe they are stored with the helicopters that could not fly.
    Adrianus
    27th Jul 2015
    4:21pm
    "12 billion and thats not a set price as the costs keep rising and the problems persist."
    Yes as we found with the NBN.
    geomac
    27th Jul 2015
    10:23pm
    Frank are you really comparing a service to Australian homes and industry with a jet plagued by problems ? Australian are using the NBN now and getting a better service at the same price as they used to pay. How many Australian are going to fly the strike fighter if and when it gets the go ahead for service here. You are not comparing apples with apples Frank you are comparing a service with a white elephant.


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