Abbott out of touch on renewables

An Oxfam report shows that coal is not, in fact, good for humanity.

Abbott out of touch on renewables

According to a recent Oxfam report, Tony Abbott’s claim that coal is “good for humanity” is out of step with how the rest of the world sees the fossil fuel.

The Powering Up Against Poverty study states that the international shift away from fossil fuels is happening faster than most would have predicted. It has also found that coal power could be responsible for numerous health problems – even premature deaths – and is ineffective in delivering electricity to the world’s poorest communities.

The report also shows that coal is the single biggest driver of climate change.

One in seven people of the world’s population are without power. The Prime Minister believes that fossil fuels will not only be the power source of choice for the next few decades, but also that it will raise living standards in developing nations whilst bolstering the Australian economy.

Oxfam disagrees. The author of the report, Dr Simon Bradshaw is concerned about Mr Abbott’s “myopic focus” on the coal industry.

“Coal is the single biggest contributor to climate change, the impacts of which are most felt by poorer people through floods, drought, cyclones and changes to food patterns,” he said. “We can clearly see in rural areas, and even rapidly growing urban populations, that renewable energy is a much more affordable and healthy solution for developing countries than coal.”

It's quicker to install local solar panels than build coal plants, which means that renewable energy is actually a cheaper option for powering rural and remote areas.

Backing up the report’s findings that coal is detrimental to the health of the world community, the UK medical journal Lancet has also conducted studies of its own, and found that shifting to renewable energy could prevent over seven million deaths a year due to air pollution.

The same study also found that coal could have “potentially catastrophic” global effects through climate change, which will cause floods, drought, extreme weather events, air pollution and the spread of disease. According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), climate change will cause around 250,000 deaths a year between 2030 and 2050.

The Oxfam report shows that global investment in renewables actually surpassed fossil fuels in 2011. It’s estimated that US$3.7 trillion will be invested globally in solar technology alone over the next 25 years.

Even China, Australia’s biggest coal export market, reduced its coal consumption by 2.9 per cent last year and spent US$83.3 billion on renewable energy projects in 2014. Another major market, India, has also set its own target of 175GW of energy to be derived from solar systems by 2022.

Last week, Labor announced that by 2030 it would aim for Australia to derive up to 50 per cent of its electricity supply from renewables – a goal Mr Abbott called “bizarre” because it will cost Australia $60 billion to achieve. But the International Monetary Fund (IMF) predicts that Australians will actually subsidise fossil fuel production by around $41 billion in 2015 alone, which equates to around two per cent of Australia’s GDP.

The IMF also revealed that, globally, we are supporting fossil fuels at a rate of $10 million per minute – which is more than the world spends on healthcare.

Read the Oxfam report.
Read more at The Guardian
Read more at The Sydney Morning Herald

Opinion: Gambling with your future

With all these statistics, reports and studies showing that renewable energy is the way of the future, surely it’s time Tony Abbott ended his love affair with coal. And even though the Oxfam report is dealing specifically with powering remote global communities, the trend is indicative of what is to come once renewable energy becomes even more affordable across the board.

Even two of our biggest export markets are seeing the light – light that is increasingly being powered by renewable energy. Yet Mr Abbott remains attached to the notion that coal power is still the way of the future.

The Oxfam report shows that global investment in renewables has surpassed fossil fuel investment. And with the cost of renewables dropping year-by-year, this trend will no doubt continue.

But although Mr Abbott’s attitude towards renewable energy is out of step with the rest of the world, his is not the only opinion that should be worrying to many retirees.

Speaking as chair of the Asset Owners Disclosure Project in October last year, former Liberal leader Dr John Hewson claimed that the world’s top 1000 pension funds invest around 55 per cent of their money in fossil fuel industries, and just two per cent in renewable industries.

That 55 per cent equates to $US41 trillion invested in an industry that could be superseded in the next two decades. This bet against climate change jeopardises the nest eggs and investments of many current and future retirees. Surely it’s time the global banks and pension funds start taking studies such as those conducted by Oxfam and the IMF a little more seriously.

After all, they’re gambling with your money and taking a risk on your future. They’re betting against a huge proportion of experts who say that climate change is a very real threat. Is it really a chance worth taking?

What do you think? Do you still feel that coal is the way of the future? Do you think it’s time the Government and global banks started to ‘hedge their bets’ on the possibility of climate change? Do you worry that your future finances could be affected by the lack of attention paid to the onset of climate change? Would you like to see Australia investing more in renewable energy? 





    COMMENTS

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    wondering
    30th Jul 2015
    10:26am
    THE IS NO WAY CHINA, INDIA OR AUSTRALIA OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE PLANET COULD ENJOY THE PROSPERITY THEY DO WITHOUT COAL, THANK GOD I TOO AM 'OUT OF STEP'
    Sorrento Jo
    30th Jul 2015
    10:33am
    110% AGREE. Renewables will play a part in the future, that's life, but this hysteria about coal is ridiculous. Coal is, and will be, around for a long time.
    Tom Tank
    30th Jul 2015
    10:33am
    We wouldn't be where are without sailing ships either. Times and technology move on, not always for the better unfortunately, but they do not stand still.
    mangomick
    30th Jul 2015
    11:32am
    Yes that's right wondering, and many people in downtown Shanghai and Beijing would agree with you, if they were game enough to take off their particle masks for just a minute .
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:27pm
    This sounds like the kind of ignorant comment you get from this coal sponsored and coal owned government.
    Whilst you are correct wondering you should also understand that in the past we had no other real alternative. This is no longer the case and the only thing holding up the coal industry is its control of governments all over the planet, with the exception of most of the third world where the future is the last thing on the minds of the incumbent population.
    Lets get real. THERE IS NO LONGER ANY NEED TO USE COAL other than as a supplement/standby measure. The reason that we are having this debate is because the coal industry and its wealthy owners want the status quo to remain so that their wealth continues on forever. But just like the horse and buggy days the life of coal is now short.
    Kopernicus
    30th Jul 2015
    8:48pm
    Why are you thanking God for a delusion, being out of step with mankind and your planet? Are you arrogant enough to think you know better than the majority of scientists and the people on earth? What if you are wrong, what's the consequence - disaster for, not you, but the succeeding generations.
    What if you are right? Well some industries went down, some went up, the air is easier to breathe for many. So what's the big deal? Risk major disaster for humanity or turn over some industries at worse. Get a grip on the full meaning of it all - you don't evidence you have an inkling on the big picture.
    MICK
    4th Aug 2015
    7:57am
    The air is "easier to breath"? Go to China and to Europe and you'll see that that is not the case at all.
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    9:20am
    Four Lumps od Export Quality Coal with Milk and Sugar please Waiter ! :-)
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2015
    9:36am
    I would like to see fully reconciled detailed financials on the $10billion Green Fund set up by the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd/Shorten/Milne government. Has the floor of the slaughter house been hosed down yet? Is it all over? If only there wasn't a GFC the $10b could have been much much more!!
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    9:57am
    Spent on Importing New Australian's :-( We wouldn't vote for them ! And Neither will they ! :-)
    Tom Tank
    30th Jul 2015
    10:31am
    The fact that renewable energy sources can, in so many cases, be sited to produce energy close to the user really makes a strong case against large fossil fueled power stations which then require very expensive power transmission lines to transport the electricity. A large power stations have particular requirements that limits their positioning.
    This in itself, excluding the climate debate, really sounds the death knell for further coal fired power stations and also nuclear powered ones.
    A very large part of the electricity prices in Victoria, for example, is due to the prices charged by the owners of the Transmission Lines and there is an associated risk in this country of bush fires due to fallen lines. I won't go into the reasons for the failure of the lines but numerous court cases have heard evidence on these matters.
    Given the way the rest of the world is moving then coal for power generation is very much on the nose and Abbott yet again shows himself to be out of touch, or sticking to demands made by political donors.
    Coking coal, used in steel production, is a different matter and should be separated out from the current debate.
    Bes
    30th Jul 2015
    2:11pm
    Good factual comment Tom. We know and understand that there are vast amounts of coal in the ground and that there are certain uses for coal.
    But with the advent of household solar/battery storage systems powered by no cost power from the sun, the government is going to lose out on revenue.....just because, and maybe as you say, due to pressure from political donors.
    Solar packages are now a cheap investment.
    Car manufacturers like Mercedes and Audi are building 'plug in hybrid' vehicles that will also impinge on oil/petrol tax revenue.
    By all means mine what coal is needed, but don't try to push the supposed need for coal upon us.
    The cost to mine and support shareholders of mining companies, sell to private power companies and support more shareholders, AND we pick up the bill is going to be a hard sell in a very short time. NOT a couple of decades.
    This government told us pre election there would be no new taxes but have talked of nothing else since gaining power.
    They told us that the age of ENTITLEMENT is over.
    BUT now we see just how the Liberal Royal Family operate as King Abbott (Canute?) Queen Bronwyn and Joker Joe really intend to operate if re elected.
    And with the shakers and movers of Labor still in place, it's hard to forget the Gillard/Rudd debacle...and cost!
    So one wonders just WHO could MANAGE, TO THE VERY BEST OF THEIR ABILITY, THE BEST INTERESTS OF AUSTRALIA and NOT Party Power FIRST??
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:30pm
    Correct Bes. Good post.
    But never assume that governments will not find some way of taxing you. I am thinking that a 'service availability charge' may turn up. There was once such a charge for water...whether you used it or not.
    Glad you understand whose interests this government is working for. Certainly not the national good.
    particolor
    4th Aug 2015
    9:46am
    I love "Service Availability Charge" Mick I sent them back a "Recipient Charge Bill" :-)
    Kaz
    28th Aug 2015
    9:54am
    Just because the coal is there doesn't mean we have to sell the farm! We have cleaner smarter ways of generating and we should be at the front of the pack! Once our battery technology is improved, there will be no stopping us (remember the first computers-that type of progression will be the same! We can see who are the conservatives!
    particolor
    28th Aug 2015
    5:44pm
    Your right Kaz !! :-) They are like a Little Fat Kid with a Big Bag of Lollies !! Sit down and eat the lot YUMMO!!, Stuff tomorrow !! We had enough GAS here to last Australia for 150 Years NOT LONG AGO !! Where is it now ? I cant find the figures but I'll bet the barrels Half empty ? :-( "-(
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    10:38am
    Solar system installations are about to have another boom. But this time it will be driven by the private sector, which is the only way to go. Governments spend too much time claiming the moral high ground and too little time doing the one thing that is needed. Helping to make solar a commercially viable alternative without penalising and demonising all of us for doing what we have been doing for centuries.
    jackie
    30th Jul 2015
    10:58am
    Governments these days spend too much time pocketing our money for their luxurious lifestyles.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    11:40am
    If I am critical of politicians it would have to be that we don't have any true leaders. Where are the Hawkes and Howards that can take us on a journey to a desirable future?
    Bill Shorten has a visit from a sales rep selling solar panels and he gets all warm and fuzzy in a global sense.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:30pm
    ANother political advertisement sponsored by this government?
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    3:32pm
    mick, did you eventually get your solar system installed?
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    4:11pm
    I've got a Solar Radio ! But its a bit Crackly when it Snows !! :-(
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    4:37pm
    I go outside so that I do not have to be ripped off with electricity bills I choose not to afford. Works well parti.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    5:33pm
    I told you about this friend of mine with the solar farm. Those stupid Labor leaders in QLD virtually forced him to buy a block of land and erect it full of solar panels. He gets $100k pa and visits the block twice a year (tax deductible) to do any minor repairs etc. Anyway, the reason I asked about your installation was out of interest because of what I heard the other day.
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    7:00pm
    Don't tell us Frank ! They have worked out a way to Charge us for Sun Rays ! :-( :-( Its only thing left on the FREE List !
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:04am
    Frank: what about that "stupid" Abbott and his cronies who repealed the Carbon Tax and now taxpayers put it $8 a year to make up the difference?
    As always you are trying to find fault with the left whilst your sponsor has no scrutiny. Troll!
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:05pm
    $8 billion a year, not $8.
    jackie
    30th Jul 2015
    10:57am
    In the latter part of the 13th century, in an effort to reduce air pollution, England’s King Edward I threatened Londoners with harsh penalties if they didn’t stop burning sea-coal.

    It's about time coal was replaced with clean renewable energy.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    11:04am
    I agree Jackie. Threats will not work. They are a little like windmills.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:31pm
    Step 1: close down ALL brown coalmines.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    3:36pm
    mick how would it help to have another 200,000 additional unemployed?
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    4:07pm
    I've got it ! :-) I'm gunna run Feral Cats in Generator Wheels !
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    4:40pm
    There are not 200 000 Australians employed in the mining industry. The reality is that the Abbott government is throwing many tens of thousands of Australians out of work by closing down the renewables industry. The imbecilic conduct is obvious when you look at what other countries are investing in (it ain't coal!!!) and the technologies of the future. This country is being sent the way of the dinosaurs. Then we will have mass unemployment.
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    4:49pm
    :-) :-) That will suit Many of the New Arrivals Just Dandy Mick ! :-) :-)
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    5:26pm
    Please try to calm down mick the world is not coming to an end and neither is this little country of 23 million burdened by the huge responsibility of saving the planet.
    55,000 plus 145,000 related jobs in coal mick.
    Nobody is closing down renewables especially the ones which work like solar. Labor in QLD is slowing down solar because it will take away the government revenue. The private sector wants to expand on the 1.5million panels by including businesses. In Australia when you get business involved things happen. The last Labor leader with the skill to get private enterprise to assist in moving mountains was Bob Hawke. Bob didn't even attend the Labor love in last week, shows how much respect these current lunatics have lost.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:38pm
    The next anti Labor and anti Union rant. Cash for comment!
    Neither you or this government care about the future of our nation Frank.
    Your idea of solar is that the industry in its precarious infancy should compete on a level playing field with coal. But both you and the current government want renewables to fail. And if renewables look like getting off the ground then sabotage and anti renewables legislation will appear. The track record is already evident.
    We all need to look at how successful renewables have been in Queensland and South Australia. Your employer has of course lowered the sell back price to around 5 cents a KWH. Nix!!! So who is really profiting out of this? Answer: the big energy companies and coal companies who pay this government with election funding.
    If you want to talk about lunatics talk about the long term destruction being unleashed on the future of the country. This will be clearer within the next 2 decades when we become the dinosaurs of the planet with Australians crying out "how could this happen"?
    Maybe we need legislation to strip the Benedict Arnolds of this country of everything they own and perhaps that will make them think twice before they sell out the public for their vested interests.
    wondering
    30th Jul 2015
    11:16am
    renewables and nuclear are part of the mix, but so is coal. renewables need transmission cables too.
    alternatives to cheaper sustainable energy are a long way off yet.
    we already price ourselves out of the employment market we simply can't afford to do it with energy too.
    mangomick
    30th Jul 2015
    11:33am
    My renewables on my roof don't need very long ones....
    Tom Tank
    30th Jul 2015
    11:36am
    Re the transmission lines for renewables yes they do need cables but should be so much shorter hence much cheaper with significantly less power losses.
    Look at our countryside crissed crossed with huge pylons need to carry massive cables. This is part and parcel of generating from very large power stations which do need to be large to be economical.
    Anonymous
    30th Jul 2015
    11:38am
    Yes they do for you to sell us expensive electricity and to provide you when the sun don't shine .
    Anonymous
    30th Jul 2015
    11:41am
    This thread is the normal political party broadcast from YLC based on the normal gloom and doom about global warming ..
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:33pm
    Rooftop solar needs few transmission cables as it only feeds excess power back into the grid. Even better than that is the fact that those in the know are talking about local stations which service a street or two and use batteries.
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    5:00pm
    Yes Its all doable now with Tesla Batteries !! Times are changing ! Tell the Uninformed in High Places ! :-) No ! Not Her se is too high ! :-) Wait till she comes back to Earth ! :-)
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:39pm
    Who, Bronny? Think she's gone.
    dougie
    30th Jul 2015
    11:46am
    Maybe the so called 'REST OF THE WORLD' are the ones out of step. Who knows?
    When you look around Australia and see so many trees so much water around us and so small a population you wonder why we are being singled out as one of the worst polluters. The whole equation is based on pro rata to population, of course we are going to be worse than China or India or Europe but as a contributor to Global warming we are a minnow. We and everyone else just has to learn how to use this products in a more effective way. How much do all of those jet planes screaming around the globe contribute to global warming, how much do all of the explosions - detonations and gunshots in the mainly Arab world contribute to Global warming. In fact how much does the annual New Years fireworks contribute in one 24 hour period? Do you know these facts and figures?
    How much does the daily warfare in the Arab States cost those nations and how much are we expected to contribute to rehabilitate those peoples and those countries when nit is all over just so that can go out and do it again?
    These are questions as great as Global Warming but who is asking them and who will listen?
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:34pm
    We are the worst polluter PER CAPITA. Make a statement.
    Anonymous
    30th Jul 2015
    5:51pm
    What sort of pollution are you referring to ..
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:39pm
    Clearly coal Pete.
    dougie
    31st Jul 2015
    8:25am
    Mick,
    I made a statement by asking the questions. Do you have the answers? If so make the statement to answer my questions and I will read them with great interest. However answer them with fair and reasoned comment with the information to back up your argument. I have already pointed out that Australia may be the worst polluter simply based on a per capita calculation. However put another 50 million people in Australia and this would no doubt change.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:08am
    Your argument is flawed dougie. Remember that in our lifetime we did have a much smaller population. Nothing has changed other than the number of people. We are still in the top ranks of coal burners. That is the issue! And to add insult to injury when renewables threatened the holy coal lobby the government was changed and the good which was being done has been under attack and/or undone.
    They are the facts.
    dougie
    31st Jul 2015
    11:50am
    Mick,
    Facts like probabilities and statistics can be utilised to meet any argument. What you have said does not alter the fact that in the state of the world pollution and contribution to global warming, we are a minnow. Check this on the ABC Fact Check.
    MICK
    4th Aug 2015
    8:00am
    Ever heard the saying "lies, damned lies, and statistics"? We may be a minnow but WE WILL BE SINGLED OUT in the future if we are the worst per capita polluter. Be sure of that.
    migmag
    30th Jul 2015
    11:46am
    Oxfam produced a report which was produced by using respected experts and people "in the know" about renewables and the dangers of climate change and health. The comments here are made by people like Abbott who are not experts but seem to hold an opinion contary to all the evidence being produced. Prosperity is not the end game.
    wally
    30th Jul 2015
    12:04pm
    I wish I could share your faith in "Respected Experts and those in the know" (or would saying that they were " in on the plot" be more appropriate?) History tells us that all of the scientific community of respected experts all agreed that the world was flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth in agreement with the Pope. In those days, dissenters risked a one way trip to the stake for heresy.

    Now our current Pope Francis has jumped on the Global Warming/Climate Change bandwagon as well. Does the Pope qualify as a "respected expert in the know" or is he another emulator of Chicken Little warning us all that the sky is falling?
    Hasbeen
    30th Jul 2015
    2:22pm
    Only an idiot could possibly believe anything put out by a propaganda organisation like Oxfam.

    If it is in the Guardian, you know it is garbage by definition. They only print Greenie/lefty propaganda, hence this bit of garbage getting a run.

    The Europeans are running backwards, trying to reverse their fool flirtation with wind & solar. It has almost destroyed the best economy in the world, the German economy, & they have woken up to them selves. It is only the smarties riding the gravy train of alternate energy still fighting a rearguard action, as they see their cash cow disappearing into the cloud of common sense now rising in Europe that we are hearing with this rubbish.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:36pm
    Politicians are not to be believed. Especially not the current crop which has a history of one lie on another.....a disgrace to our way of life and to be cut out like the (dangerous) cancer it is.
    wally
    30th Jul 2015
    11:49am
    If the current crop of renewable energy sources ( meaning solar and wind power) are so beneficial for humanity, why do they need government subsidies (at taxpayer expense) to exist? If the Greens, Al Gore, Mr Shorten and Co believe that these renewable energy schemes are so good, I would like to know how much money they have personally invested in them? surely, if we are going to meet Shorten's dream of having 50% of Australia's energy needs supplied when he promises with renewables, who is going to pay for them?

    Will the Chinese stop buying Australian houses and start investing in Australian wind farms? Does Mr Shorten foresee when the nations in the developing world will go to solar or wind power for their energy needs by 2030, or 2040 or 2050? And who is going to pay for that? Will Shorten's union boss mates start using Union funds to invest in wind farms and solar electricity programs instead of their own selfish interests? Like Craig Thomson did, for example, or to get elected to parliament?

    It is all well and good for Bill Shorten to tell us all how good renewable energy sources are going to be for Australians, the rest of the world and all of the future generations untold, but unless he and his supporters put their money where their mouths are, I shall remain unconvinced.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:37pm
    Use you noodle wally. New industries need a bit of help to get off the ground. A no brainer.
    What you miss is that renewable energy is FREE once you pay for the hardware. A great deal methinks.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:37pm
    Use you noodle wally. New industries need a bit of help to get off the ground. A no brainer.
    What you miss is that renewable energy is FREE once you pay for the hardware. A great deal methinks.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    3:41pm
    wally, Mr Shorten said Al Gore told him there is no reason why Australia cannot lead the way. I reckon Al Gore must be very persuasive. He has Shorten all excited.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    3:49pm
    And Clive got Al Gore excited enough to jump on a plane pronto. He had 10 billion reasons to speak with Clive urgently.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    3:50pm
    "What you miss is that renewable energy is FREE once you pay for the hardware. A great deal methinks. "

    mick, many would dispute that.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:15pm
    Another paid advertisement from the government?
    bob menzies
    30th Jul 2015
    11:56am
    Matt Ridley on the horrific cost in cash and lives of the global warming movement:

    Climate policy is already doing harm. Building wind turbines, growing biofuels and substituting wood for coal in power stations — all policies designed explicitly to fight climate change — have had negligible effects on carbon dioxide emissions. But they have driven people into fuel poverty, made industries uncompetitive, driven up food prices, accelerated the destruction of forests, killed rare birds of prey, and divided communities. To name just some of the effects. Mr Goklany estimates that globally nearly 200,000 people are dying every year, because we are turning 5 per cent of the world’s grain crop into motor fuel instead of food: that pushes people into malnutrition and death. In [Britain], 65 people a day are dying because they cannot afford to heat their homes properly, according to Christine Liddell of the University of Ulster, yet the government is planning to double the cost of electricity to consumers by 2030.

    As Bjorn Lomborg has pointed out, the European Union will pay £165 billion for its current climate policies each and every year for the next 87 years. Britain’s climate policies — subsidising windmills, wood-burners, anaerobic digesters, electric vehicles and all the rest — is due to cost us £1.8 trillion over the course of this century. In exchange for that Brobdingnagian sum, we hope to lower the air temperature by about 0.005?C — which will be undetectable by normal thermometers. The accepted consensus among economists is that every £100 spent fighting climate change brings £3 of benefit.

    UPDATE

    There has been no real warming of the atmosphere for 17 years. There has been no increase in cyclones, and little evidence of a worldwide increase of droughts. Most of the low-lying Pacific and Indian ocean islands we were once warned were drowning are either stable or growing in size. The world’s main food crops have had record harvests. The Arctic has not melted away, after all, and the Antarctic sea ice has been at record levels. Our dams are as full as ever.

    In short, the catastrophe that warmists and our top scientific bodies have warned of for years has not come. It is now doubtful it will ever come.

    Yet to this day, journalists, green groups, AMA president Brian Owler, politicians and many (but far from all) scientists insist global warming is a massive threat and continue to push vastly expensive schemes that would actually not stop global warming even if it was occurring.

    Why?

    Steven Hayward suggests an answer:


    Try this out as a thought experiment: what would happen if, tomorrow morning, we had definitive proof that catastrophic climate change was impossible, wasn’t happening, and would never happen. Would Al Gore breathe a big sigh of relief…

    Of course not. The general reaction from environmentalists and the left would be a combination of outrage and despair. The need to believe in oneself as part of the agency of human salvation runs deep for leftists and environmentalists who have made their obsessions a secular religion. And humanity doesn’t need salvation if there is no sin in the first place. Hence human must be sinners—somehow—in need of redemption from the left…

    Activist liberal elites always need a Grand Cause to satisfy their messianic needs, or for the political equivalent of a dopamine rush. For such people, the only thing worse that catastrophic climate change is the catastrophe of not having a catastrophe to obsess over—and use as an excuse to extend political control over people and resources…


    UPDATE

    A warmist comes to praise:

    Alan Jones, Ray Hadley, Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine and the like have done a very good job of linking climate change to bongo-playing, weed-smoking hippy lefties.
    Aw, shucks. But, really, I couldn’t have done it without the help of those “lefties”

    And there is much more info I could provide - Gillard gathered in over $6b from carbon tax and we know now some $4b has been wasted on wave generators and other projects that did not work - and the money wasted made no difference to carbon emissions. And we in NSW have a labor de sal plant that cost over $1.2b and has not produced 1 litre of water yet (OK dams are full but Fkannery said they would be empty by now) and for the privilege we all pay $90 a year per person to maintain plant - madness and a waste of taxpeyers money.
    When these people talk about renewables they won't discuss nucleur or hydro options and obscure the fact that coal is massively cheaper now and in the forseeable future - and for many Australians is a job (heaven knows we need jobs) - I read that the mining sector (covers coal) is 3rd largest employer in Australia.
    wally
    30th Jul 2015
    12:06pm
    But that ain't what Al Gore, the Pope and Bill Shorten are telling us.
    bob menzies
    30th Jul 2015
    12:26pm
    Further facts:-

    Please don’t forget to note that 95% of the world is powered by fossil fuels, nuclear or evil dams and their hydroelectricity.

    The remaining 5% comes from others - a group which includes burning wood, tyres, garbage, as well as the ‘green’ power ‘solutions’ of windmills and solar.

    Also 2012/ 13 Australian coal exports:

    Thermal coal- 182 million tonnes

    Metallurgical coal- 154 million tonnes (used in used in iron and steel production, you know the stuff used in cars, bridges, railways, buildings, reinforced concrete, surgical instruments etc) which the rest of the world want from us

    Next point - the amount of taxes government gets from coal is massive - if we stopped using coal where would the money come from to spend on expensive renewables such as solar or wind. These climate change greenies just don't think things through.
    Here is a challenge to al the Greenies out there:-
    Just switch the coal fired powerstations off for a week, just one week will save a few tonnes of CO2 going into the atmosphere (and make no difference to the climate) and by the end of that week 99.9% of Australians will be BEGGING to switch the coal back on, plus a few alarmists will either recant or be the first up against the wall once the lights come back on.
    Go on do it flick the switch and end this argument today!!
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:42pm
    wally: a few observations:

    1. Al Gore - a hard one. Who knows. Gore does have interests in renewables but I am not sure if he made those on his journey or if in fact he is talking up his investments.
    2. The Pope - the Pope is little more than a representative but the Catholic Church has the best honest and informed advice money can buy. I'd put money on the fact that the Pope's message is not politically motivated.
    3. Bill Shorten - so what is in it for Shorten? You'll get Frank crapping on about unions but then unions have members who mine coal as well.
    Not sure what you are on about wally. Lets play the ball rather than the man...unless it is resident troll Frank....who is fair game. Where are the smilies?
    Luchar
    30th Jul 2015
    7:09pm
    Isn't it amazing! Tony Abbott is vilified because his Christian faith dictates much of his beliefs and he will not change his mind on issues such as same sex marriage, in line with the teachings of his Church. Now the Pope comes out with a statement on climate change, (a topic on which he is hardly an authority) and suddenly Tony Abbott is vilified because he does not immediately fall into line with the opinions of the Pope.

    No one does hypocrisy like the Left does hypocrisy!
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:21pm
    Tony Abbott a christian? Quite amusing. They don't call Abbott the mad monk for no reason.
    The level of intentional and destructive dishonesty which comes from Abbott and his government has no basis in Christianity. If you want to know why this government refuses to acknowledge climate change then first ask where Liberal Party election funding comes from.
    Hypocrisy from the left? Because Labor believes in climate change? Yeah right.
    Kopernicus
    30th Jul 2015
    9:01pm
    This the most bogan, bizarre summation I've seen thus far. Congratulations! Tuck yourself in the blanket of ignorance, with your favorite 'experts' like Bolt & Co. It's warming, isn't it, to nest with like minds, even if thay are at the sess pit of incapacity to actually examine the evidence, nor to even consider if their frivolous opinion, contra to science, could possibly be wrong.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:41pm
    Yes. I sort have had to smile when Bolt was used as an example. Bizarre.
    andromeda143
    30th Jul 2015
    12:05pm
    Saying that Tony Abbott is 'out of touch' is like saying the dinosaurs are old.

    Abbott is the anachronistic, headstrong leader the Australian electorate were stupid enough to vote for. Now everyone is suffering from his 19th century attitudes. Well it doesn't really wash. I think the electorate danced to his misogynistic and abusive tune last time and they will be silly enough to vote him back in again. The proof of that is that we are all happily accepting his bulldust about security issues and the need for making our society highly represssed. This country is no longer a liberal democracy thanks to Brandis, Abbott, Dutton, Morrison et al. And yet still the electorate accepts more and more repressive legislation. It will not stop before this, the worst government in my memory, takes us back to the fifties. What next? The resurrection of the white Australia policy and nuclear energy?
    bob menzies
    30th Jul 2015
    12:35pm
    what utter rubbish - worst government - that clearly goes to Rudd and Gillard and there are several leading labor figures such as Richo and Rerguson who say so and they have forgotten more about labor than most know then there is Tim Wilson who puts McMahon as worst since WW2 but only marginally worse than Rudd /Gillard. Abbottt is weak on economic matters but he is much better long term for Australia than the alternatives. I grew up in late 40s and then 50s and it wasn;t all bad and of course Australia was blessed with the best PM we have ever had. The bookies have Coalition at $1.60 to win next election and shortening and they hae always got it right since they were allowed to bet on elections from late 90s
    andromeda143
    30th Jul 2015
    1:00pm
    Richardson is an opportunist who would sell his own grandmother for any sort of attention, Ferguson is just sore because he could not get the miners tax deal that he wanted. Wilson is a blatant liberal sycophant and Abbott admirer. Rudd and Gillard were definitely bad as PM's because of their stoushes, but their governments actually did many worthwhile things eg in education. I am not a great fan of either Labor or Liberal at the moment, but there has never been a government that told as many lies, broke as many promises or done as many backflips as this one. Meantime Abbott's lies about climate change, renewables and world security are ruining this country and this country's reputation overseas.
    Incidentally, Mr Menzies, (aka Pig Iron Bob) ruled a much more stable environment in the fifties, but did not do so well when selling iron to Japan before WW2, which came back to Australia in the form of....?
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:45pm
    Here we go again. Playing the man.
    The issue is clear. The Abbott government's owners are also clear. So lets not try throwing the normal mud guys but understand the players for who are what they are.
    The ONLY reason Abbott and his cronies are killing off renewables is that the fossil fuel industry is sponsoring them at election time. If that were not available and if retiring ministers were never offered jobs in the mining industry then we would not be having this debate.
    Kaz
    31st Jul 2015
    4:29pm
    Don't despair andromeda - they said that Can-do Newman couldn't lose the next election and he did / because of the same arrogance and ignorance the federal government is displaying.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:07pm
    Newman sold out hid state. Abbott is selling out the nation.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    9:48pm
    Hell have to trodden on, or there will be nothing left for the Incumbents to sell ! :-(
    Mak
    30th Jul 2015
    12:21pm
    Yes, yes, yes, we have heard it all before, but wind generators cost a fortune to build, install and maintain with a life of 20 years, poison being dumped in China from the production of neodymium, needed in the turbine. coal needed to produce power to manufacture them, coal power needed to manufacture solar panels.
    Even if these products paid their own way in producing electricity, what about the mines producing the raw materials for solar panels, wind turbines, material for the production machinery, the mines' machinery for digging, the trains for carting, the rails for the trains to run, the cranes to load/unload on and off ships, material to build the ships and material for transport for all the people employed working in all areas above.

    Home appliances, jewellery, furniture, windows, vehicles, buildings, et; all use material which was mined, even the machinery to cut the timber was mined.
    Renewable energy will be a pipe dream for many years to come, why is there no comprehension of the facts by the so-called 'experts' who write these articles.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:46pm
    Getting cleaner all the time Mak. Your argument does not stack up.
    Kaz
    31st Jul 2015
    4:24pm
    It is obviously not going to be a scenario of cut the coal, start the solar but we need to get moving quickly on improving renewables and look towards future options, because like it or not, it's coming & we need to be at the front not trying to catch up or miss the boat altogether. Coal has made made us lazy. We have the smarts! Think past the dollar and worry about the future generations and flora and fauna that we are entrusted to care for.
    MICK
    4th Aug 2015
    8:01am
    Correct Kaz. What the idiots who control the nation are incapable of understanding is that coal is going down for the count no matter how hard they try to manipulate the market.
    Dave
    30th Jul 2015
    12:27pm
    The ideal is for large batteries (size of Shipping containers) to be charged from windmills and topped up from Solar panels to be sited where a given number of houses say 4 or 6 can easily feed off the power for several months before removing for a recharge and a new battery placed for the cycle to start over again.
    Gas should be piped to every house and fridges converted, gas is more efficient in a fridge.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:47pm
    Already in the pipeline.
    Mak
    4th Aug 2015
    3:28pm
    Life of batteries = ? cost of and power used to recycle and replace, plus the cost of transport and labour.
    Can't pipe gas to every single dwelling, houses, businesses across the length and breadth of Australia, add install cost to cost of use, impossible to afford.

    We are looking for a permanent flowing stream of energy not replacement of gadgets like solar panels or windmills.

    Not even nuclear reactors, try thorium reactors, damned expensive to build though, same source, uranium, but harmless......then again MINING,MACHINES using up oil, from finite reserves.
    Adrianus
    4th Aug 2015
    3:40pm
    It will be years before we have suitable power storage. Until then we should work together and not claim the politically moral high ground by putting up a few solar panels and have a garage full of acid batteries down the back.
    Abby
    4th Aug 2015
    7:56pm
    Thousands of raptors owls and bats get killed by windmills.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2015
    8:42am
    Mak: what you describe is applicable to EVERY source of energy. The issue is low cost and clean. This is where renewables will win.....unless the corruption at government manages to kill it off before it gets the opportunity to reach adulthood.
    You might also consider that coal burning facilities are reaching their end of life. So do you support taxpayers funding renewal of these facilities with billions of dollars of our money? Or is it better to go renewables with a much smaller gas fired standby facility? Oh yes.....Australia has already sold ALL of its vast gas reserves to Asia so no gas available to do this. Aren't our governments and their highly paid advisers so wonderful? You have to wonder why people do not vote for Independents and kill off the corruption and mismanagement. Maybe we are truly getting what we all deserve....but she'll be right............
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2015
    9:25am
    Abby as I heard last night on Richo and Jones many people are getting sick from windmills. The ABC's claims they are mentally deranged. What is the ABC's interest in wind farms???
    Mak
    30th Jul 2015
    12:32pm
    Why is it that the 'knockers' of Abbott and others of his ilk never give or explain a solid reason for their 'nit-picking', nor any suggestions of who they would prefer, and which replacement they have the guts to guarantee that their choice will please every person in Australia.
    One day the 'nit-pickers' may stand up and explain in detail how they would do a 'perfect job' if elected to the same position.
    geomac
    30th Jul 2015
    1:21pm
    The many faults of Abbott have been discussed numerous times by a multitude of people including those in his own party. Where have you been Mak ?
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:48pm
    You must be living in a vacuum Mak. The dishonesty of this government and for whom it acts has been crystal clear for some time. Quite clear you have a 'football team' mentality and do not want to confront the facts. Good luck to you.
    Mak
    4th Aug 2015
    3:12pm
    I live overseas for my job part of the time, THAT is where I have been geomac, and little m mick, humans cannot survive in a vacuum, just shows how stupid you are, and as far as my mentality goes it is independent, unlike your mentality of stating what you want, only what you don't want, which is child mentality making half-statements by saying, "I don't like carrots", then asked what he wants, the reply, "I don't know''.
    Dishonest governments, pick on them all, especially Labor and wee Willie,then Liberal, National, Green, Motorist, Shooters, Sex, Seniors etc;
    The other stupidity of your misreading is the fact that I never said I liked Abbott, I said, and you and geomac should read my last post, S.L.O.W.L.Y, understand, READ SLOWLY.....the nit-pickers of Abbott have not yet suggested a better choice because you don't know what you will get.
    What is it about simple English that you and geomac don't understand, where did you spend your time instead of going to school geomac, and mick, YOU need to spend time in a vacuum learning to read correctly......and both of you should never ASSUME....the meaning is in the dictionary.
    Your replies to this post will prove that you agree with what I have written, not complicated if you slow your Alzheimers method of communication. My luck is good, but I refuse to share.
    Adrianus
    4th Aug 2015
    3:23pm
    Mak you have stated what many of us have been thinking.
    particolor
    4th Aug 2015
    3:58pm
    Well I've had a look through the Kings and Queens in waiting and there is not much there that hasn't had their Brain through the Washing Machine ? Turf them all out and Start again ! Send them all to Centrelink, after paying them only what they have contributed to Superannuation Out of their Own Pocket ! Like anyone else who is Sacked !. Vote in some Sensible Well Educated People who Genuinely Care about Australia and its Future ! Not this Round and Round Merry Go Round to nowhere that is driving the Country Nuts ! Its a Recycling Depot that only gets You a New Jam Tin with the same Old Contents! Pumpkin Jam that nobody wants ! :-(
    Adrianus
    4th Aug 2015
    4:33pm
    I'm with you on that parti!!!
    MICK
    5th Aug 2015
    8:34am
    You've the stamp of approval on that one particolor. Where do I caste my vote?
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    9:16am
    You may as well toss Your Vote in the Dumpster here in this Country now for all its Worth :-( The more I look around the Web THE WORSE IT GETS ! :-( Now they are giving Permission for That DESTRUCTIVE Indian CO to Open a Coal Mine in QLD Somewhere and Plough up the Barrier Reef with their Coal Ships ?? :-( I just found that somewhere on the Net ? Nothing in our (Keep Em Dumb Papers ?)
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2015
    9:21am
    And there are also destructive Swiss companies opening wind farms. Why are all these wind farms owned by overseas companies? And why is a successful Hydro energy company now diverting to costly wind farming? Heck even AGL is getting into wind??? What is going on???
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    9:28am
    Its not looking good when You live in a Straw House with the Big Bad Wolf outside Puckering up for a Cyclonic Event !! :-(
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2015
    9:31am
    Have a look at the financial reports on these wind energy stocks. They're losing money and heavily geared? What am I missing??
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    9:36am
    A Stiff Sea Breeze !!
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2015
    10:12am
    Many on here want to do away with negative gearing too, so if that happened it may be really tough going. ??!!
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    10:38am
    See the Government Your having while Your not having a Government for a Wise Intelligence Plus answer to that Frank !!
    Young
    30th Jul 2015
    12:49pm
    Bob Menzies comments seem spot on and much evidence backs up his statements.
    I wish the Pope would consider population growth as a major problem for the world.Limiting growth of population would greatly assist us in the future.I consider it the number one problem of the world by far.
    Nan Norma
    30th Jul 2015
    1:06pm
    Browny, The world population is in fact decreasing.
    geomac
    30th Jul 2015
    2:36pm
    Nan
    Maybe this site will help with faulty fact or just google world population rate.

    http://countrymeters.info/en/World
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:50pm
    Population growth is the main problem. The industrialisation of the third world is another.
    Nan Norma: ????? Only in the western world. The planet is still on track to hit 9 billion by 2050.
    Kopernicus
    30th Jul 2015
    9:28pm
    Well, its amazing to hear a Pope utter an opinion on global warming and dare to warn that we're about to create our own frivolous hell fire. Good on him! As to population growth, perhaps hangin' round windmills more may do the trick, which is according to Tony an ugly, anti erectile vibe. Or just don't listen to the Pope on contraception. As for China, introduce negative gearing, and nil capital gain to keep the young from owning any property to raise a family.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:43pm
    The one child policy would work.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    10:06pm
    I agree Browny. Growth needs to be stymied particularly in China where 1 million orphans (all girls) are dumped at the gates of one orphanage each year.
    UN figures suggest world growth of 8.5b by 2030. 9.7b by 2050.
    In Australia there were 306,000 births and 147,200 deaths during 2011-12. During the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd nightmare, there were also 200,000 illegal immigrants in addition to the legal migrants, when Labor lost control of our borders.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:11am
    I'm glad to see that Tony is providing you with some figures Frank. Maybe he does have a useful purpose of some sort. My understanding is that China still had the 1 child policy in place. This is what needs to happen in places where populations are over 100 million. It won't.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    9:44am
    We will join them soon Mick with 4 Wives and 48 Kids EACH ! :-) To advance the Sect !
    wally
    31st Jul 2015
    3:18pm
    Hi Nan Norma I wish you were right about the world population shrinking. It would ease a lot of pressure on the earth and its resources. It would also ease international tension. The trouble is, you are regrettably wrong.
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    7:34pm
    People believe that mankind is 'intelligent' and can control its destiny. I have to agree with you wally....and Albert Einstein. Human stupidity has no end.
    Adrianus
    2nd Aug 2015
    8:18am
    Our search has taken us beyond this world.
    particolor
    2nd Aug 2015
    8:26am
    Dancing with the Stars.
    Adrianus
    4th Aug 2015
    9:04am
    mick, you and Albert the likes of which we may never see again.
    MICK
    5th Aug 2015
    8:32am
    Unlike you Frank the trolls are forever with us. Such is the nature of corrupt payment to those without a soul.
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    9:39am
    I sold My Soul to the Company Store !! :-(
    geomac
    30th Jul 2015
    1:34pm
    Coal will continue to be a major source of energy for many years to come but our dependence on it will decrease. Its dirty in every way from digging it up to burning it with its resultant emissions. Like electricity itself renewables is the progression of technology to harness energy. Abbott is an idiot if he thinks a wind turbine is ugly and noisy yet loves coal. He should pay a visit to an open cut coal mine and the power station alongside belching out brown smoke. Then again it would make no difference as he is just a spokesman for the IPA and the coal lobby. After all the broken promises why would anyone believe anything that man says ?
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:52pm
    Need to understand that Abbott and his cronies are just looking for reasons to get rid of windmills. I was in Germany very recently and they are everywhere. They are anything but ugly but the siting of these needs to be properly thought out...something which never seems to happen with anything in this country.
    Kopernicus
    30th Jul 2015
    9:06pm
    Hey Mick, do you think coal powered generators are attractive? Less so than windmills? Or is this a totally furphy,ridiculous notion to enter this debate. Not if you're Tony I guess.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:45pm
    You have a good point Kopernicus. Maybe Hockey needs to be updated. I'm sure Frank will oblige.
    worker
    30th Jul 2015
    2:30pm
    in summary we the Australian citizens who employee members of parliament have over the last 7 or so years go the dregs of the barrel but, we still continue to give them life time r perks monies and other perks after they leave parliament (eg no longer how employees)
    employees
    Such monies and other perks should be stopped when they are no longer how employees and such large funds returned to either lower taxation or put into sola power projects.
    Home owners could get say a 25 per cent grant from such savings to install sola hence saving them mones on power and reducing carbon .
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    2:55pm
    This government most certainly is the dregs of the Howard government. Most should have retired after Howard lost but hung on and have the most disrespectful vile demeanour and dishonest behaviour anyone could ever expect. And then you see its leader want to close down the ABC so that there is zero balance in discussions and the remaining players, which are right wing propaganda tools, farm the population....the result being that you never get a change of government and that the big end of town keeps getting more and more of the national wealth in their bank accounts.
    bob menzies
    30th Jul 2015
    7:06pm
    mick - I have no problem with your first comment re Howard ministers - I think you make a reasonable case. However please lets be balanced re ABC - if you go to Andrew Bolts blog you'll find substantial evidence to show the ABC bias - and not to labor but to the greens and extreme left labor views - I can remember when Sir Frank Packer said ABC stood for All Bloody Communists - I have never seen ABC more biased than since election of Abbott. The real complaint from most of us conservatives is that the ABC has a charter to be balanced and unbiased and it is taxpayer funded.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:27pm
    Funny bob but all I have ever seen from the ABC is the opportunity for BOTH SIDES to air their position. What is biased about that?
    I must admit I only normally watch the 7:30 Report and Q&A. Both programs attack both sides and ask the hard questions. From what I can see Abbott and his cronies expect the same compliance which comes from the Murdoch media and the business stations and cannot accept that the ABC cannot be controlled like the commercial media.
    The ABC IS BALANCED. If it were not then it would pander to the left like the commercial media does to the right. It does not do this.
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    3:59pm
    STREWTH !! I thought We were in Big Big Trouble there ? I thought one of our Prized Citizens had Stolen and Bought Back the Black Rock from The Box in Mecca !! WHEEW ! What a relief ! Its only Tony's Pet Rock ! :-)
    shirboy
    30th Jul 2015
    4:16pm
    In coal mining towns it was a well known fact that coalminers were the only ones rich enough to play golf. I am all for renewable energy because we here were surrounded by power stations & many people around & afar suffered from asthma & or allergies.
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    4:25pm
    But playing Golf near Wind Turbines can have an Effect on Your Balls ? And they are libel to end up anywhere ? :-( They will just have to find a More Suitable Sport !! :-)
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:28pm
    Behave parti. Where is a smilie when you need one.....
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    8:48pm
    I thought Your Friends were making You Smile on this one Mick ? :-)
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:47pm
    Always good to see a post from a friend or even somebody who is not owned by the devil.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    5:27pm
    Chorus... They sold their soles to the Company Store !! :-)
    Janus
    30th Jul 2015
    5:19pm
    I used to be an environmental consultant. That made me very aware that
    a) WE are living at a very high standard using lots of stuff including energy water food etc,
    b) the number of people in the world NOW is not sustainable even at the majority's lower standard of life,
    c) WE will probably not have an issue with this in OUR lifetime, but our children will notice some degradation,
    d) Life will be very unpleasant indeed for our grandchildren,
    e) interestingly, there is only one viable solution currently available to sort out the coal pollution/renewables inefficiency issue, and that, dare I say it, is nuclear.

    Some of the comments I see are made from selfish greed, ignorance, or political bias. Others are well meaning, but are still based on ignorance.

    Please, all of you, do some SERIOUS research, and find out the real picture.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    5:39pm
    Whaaat?!! NUCLEAR?!! ok if you say so.
    bob menzies
    30th Jul 2015
    7:08pm
    no arguments from me but could hydro be in the mix as well
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:31pm
    I agree with all of your post Janus except 'nuclear'. I have a real issue with waste which has a half life of 20,000 years and which takes millions of years to be rendered safe. If you saw how they stored this waste you would freak out. Plastic drums.
    musicveg
    31st Jul 2015
    2:03am
    So do you want a nuclear power station in your back yard?
    What about the waste product dug into your garden?
    How about your kids & grandchildren living along side the roads/rail lines that carry the waste product to wherever you think is a good place to store the stuff for ever?
    NUCLEAR IS CLEARLY UNSAFE
    Adrianus
    31st Jul 2015
    8:11am
    I think we can make some money out of storage of nuclear waste.
    Because it needs to be buried deep in an area not subject to quakes and plate shifts, Australia is an ideal location. The open cut coal mines have already been dug out and could easily accommodate the nuclear waste in areas which are not likely to be a human habitat in centuries to come.
    Other countries could pay Australia ongoing royalties.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:22am
    If I was not already aware Frank you have to be a total imbecile to make a statement like that. Your argument defies logic of any sort and is the sort of pseudo logic you get from this government and its failed big business sponsors.
    In case you have zero understanding of this issue:
    1. the half life of radioactive substances is in the order of 20,000 YEARS. That means it takes this amount of time for the radioactivity to halve. And then another 20,000 years to halve again, etc. In other words we are stuck with a HIGHLY DANGEROUS substance for hundreds of thousands if not millions of years.
    2. this stuff is currently stored in plastic drums. What is the life of a plastic drum? Will the drum be renewed before it wears out? And what does one do with thold now radioactive drum?
    3. It does actually rain in the desert and old mines are actually flooded on the rare occasion. So one might envisage that radioactive water will at some time leech into the aquifers. So is this industry going to give the same assurance as Whitehaven Coal gave to local farmers about their aquifer...........which has since been drained with the coal mine flooded?
    As I said Frank this post indicates further who owns you as only a complete imbecile could make such a case for nuclear storage in the light of the facts. It distresses me that you are (apparently) a fellow Australian. For goodness sake move to Syria mate. You could do a lot of good there.
    Adrianus
    31st Jul 2015
    9:47am
    mick, people you support politically have this ambition.
    "FORMER prime minister Bob Hawke has backed siting a nuclear waste dump in South Australia after Premier Jay Weatherill ­revealed he would hold a royal ­commission into the state’s deeper involvement in the nuclear ­industry."
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/bob-hawke-supports-sa-nuclear-dump/story-e6frgczx-1227212370963
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:11pm
    I don't give a tinkers who supports nuclear storage. It is the ideology of morons. Again READ THE ABOVE. It is the logic which should prevail, not the bleating from vested interests.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    10:12pm
    Little Johnny... My Dad works at the Old Coal Mine and He glows in the dark ! :-)
    Old Silver Fox
    30th Jul 2015
    5:48pm
    Shortens idea is to have pensioners die from the cold...coal is the cheapest by miles at electricity production...and will remain so for decades to come
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    7:06pm
    There's a Couple Teetering on it here now They wont turn the Heater on !! BRRRR! :-(
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:35pm
    Yeah.......lets destroy the planet so you can be comfortable. Coal may be cheap but the issue is maintaining the planet, not catering for individuals who are happy to sell the world out so that they get their cheap energy.
    The thing you miss Fox is that there is nothing as good as FREE energy. Solar is free but we will all need to pay for the hardware. A bit like buying a car which uses a quarter the petrol of a large car. At some stage you are laughing.

    30th Jul 2015
    5:49pm
    We each have a voice if we want to use it for others to hear our opinions. If you are either strongly for or against something I believe your should express your views - in a sane, researched, and unprofane manner. I often respond with comments to not only local matters in the shire rag, but on the Internet to issues of a state, national, and international level. I see this as a social and civic responsibility to get other people thinking and, maybe, inspiring them into commenting, as well - and I'm sure that all of you on this site know what I mean. Good luck.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:39pm
    The 'facts' are all that matter. Not all people can or want to confront the facts. Some are happy to live in ignorance. But in the end the future is shaped by those who debate the truth....not the propaganda or the feel good rhetoric which the uninformed support.
    VicCherikoff
    30th Jul 2015
    6:04pm
    Clearly a majority of people voted for Abbott the Fool and his cronies so seeing his ignorance broadcast around the world now is an embarassment. Cigar Joe might not like the look of windfarms but open-cut coal mines are so attractive. I guess coal-miners coughing up black goo from their lungs is equally attractive yet they still keep paying Abbott and his goons for support. The upside is that the coal industry is a dying one and I hope that this Government dies with it and sooner rather than later.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:43pm
    Great observation Vic. The media has a great deal to answer for in this matter as the vested interests were running their propaganda campaign for the vested interests, not the nation.
    It comes as no surprise that people were so easily misled. What surprises me is that with the internet people do still do not inform themselves and are conned into voting for the wrong person and Party.
    As I keep saying: VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE....but make sure that the candidate is not preferencing this bad bad government.
    bartpcb
    30th Jul 2015
    6:12pm
    This PM Abbott is out of touch with everything connected to general society, be it national or international.
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    7:10pm
    General Society is thinking of putting Sad Sack on KP ,but He probably cant cook either ? :-)
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    7:44pm
    Big business owned. So why is it any surprise?
    Not out of touch. Just sold to the highest bidder.
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    8:31pm
    I wonder how much they will get for Sydney Harbor ? They got Stuff all for Newcastle ! :-(

    30th Jul 2015
    6:35pm
    hallo here we go again, mick the labor stooge, of course has to have a go at to-days government instead of coming up with some decent suggestions. I got solar on my roof, now-a-days I pay 30 cents a kw, yet I am lucky to now receive 8 cents a kw of my input from the company who supply my electricity, the other suppliers refuse to accept my account because I have solar, yet mick, the labor apostle, still reckon renewable energy is the way to go !!!!!!
    the main reason electricity prices have gone through the roof, is that labor, when in government, gillard and rudd, enacted laws, who stated that 20% HAD TO COME OF RENEWABLE ENERGY in two years, which did not give time for a proper study of the options available, so the renewable energy what was available at the time was up to 6 (six) times, at that time up to 10 times, more expensive to produce, mick of course will deny this, I may be alone in this but I still have to see the sun shining at 11 o,clock in the night, even when I was in Norway or Sweden or to have experienced days here in Australia where the wind is blowing 24 hours a day. I would love to see the windmill farm near Ballarat have all their mills going for 24 hours and the same for those on the coast near Philip Island however I don't believe in the Fairies or take the micky out of peoples contributions to these columns.
    As for Europe, they are exactly doing the opposite and are less relying on that sort of renewable energy and as for stating we don't need any more coal to produce electricity, please wake up mick, forget to follow blindly your idols, the labor party, start thinking for yourself, hopefully not to late and start living in the real world, how many more people do you want to be unemployed and be relying on the dole, how much more will the cost be to our country, obliviously in your thinking and a few others, the party comes before the good of the people of AUSTRALIA
    .
    bob menzies
    30th Jul 2015
    7:14pm
    Agree wholeheartedly with your comments - as an aside to your comment about sun shining at 11pm (2300) I recall once in early 90s in UK playing cricket in Somerset and we did not draw stumps till 9.35pm (true) we could have played till about 9:50 - BUT by 10pm it was dark - then would you believe the english team gave us cucumber sandwiches and pints of beer. and the game was a tie!!!
    particolor
    30th Jul 2015
    7:16pm
    Poor Mick ! :-( There's enough Heat there to Cook His Dinner ! :-)
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    8:03pm
    Labor stooge? VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT. I will be. Not exactly what a "Labor stooge" would be advocating.
    Why does this comment sound the same as Frank comments???
    To respond to a few of the misleading comments above:
    1. Your man Hunt stated and is still stating "you have high electricity prices because of the Carbon Tax". Well guys....the Carbon Tax has been repealed. My electricity priced have gone up, not down, LIE NUMBER 1.
    2. Sun shining at 11 pm? What a load of crap. Battery storage is coming and that will be the game changer which lets the coal held prisoners we all are disconnect from the grid. Good riddance. LIE NUMBER 2.
    3. Some real ignorance. Your statement about Europe is untrue. I was there a couple of months ago so make the trip before telling your porkies. If you go to Greece you will find hundreds and hundreds of solar panels on farming land everywhere. If you go to Germany you will see windmills everywhere. What you have written is not supported by the facts.
    In the end you and your bad bad government will destroy the nation if you have your way. And for what? A the fistful of dollars coming from the coal industry and other vested interests who care nothing about the nation but simply seek to maintain their dirty industries no matter what the cost to all of us.
    Sorry if I seem a little hostile. This sort of dishonest post does irk me. The truth seems to be of little importance to you both..........but then sounds like our current government: no morals and no passion for the future of this nation.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    9:21pm
    mick let me be frank. We all know that a vote for an Independent is a vote for Labor.
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    9:52pm
    No Frank. ONLY an Independent whose preference goes to Labor.
    I would hate to see voters choose an Independent whose preference went to the current Liberal government given what this government stands for and whose interests it is in government to service.
    WE NEED A GOVERNMENT WHICH IS NOT OWNED BY THE RICH. If not then why would any of us be surprised to get more of the same and for money to keep heading into the bank accounts of the richest amongst us.
    Kopernicus
    30th Jul 2015
    9:55pm
    Hey Skeem, you have a point about being stuffed around after you got into solar and ending up in a pathetic pay off. I DO disagree if you blame Labor, it has been a vicious political struggle about climate change, with no agreement, no coherent position about movement into the future, no guarantee the next govt will honour the previous undertakings and no notion or certainty what the future holds. We have all been let down by both sides.
    And here we are with the Abbot in charge flaying a dead carbon horse as the future winner, and having an allergy to windmills, and doing zip to achieve emission reductions, cause he doesn't believe in it. Full stop.
    This won't and can't last deep into the future (we're being left behind big time right now), but will continue as long he's in charge.
    Heem, for the immediate future a lousy 8 cents is all you're gonna get. Just attribute that to where it belongs.
    Adrianus
    30th Jul 2015
    10:13pm
    heemsy the only way to go with solar is to get somebody else to install it, maintain it and pay for it while you receive the benefit of an ongoing power price reduction.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:28am
    You are avoiding the facts Kopernicus. This government was brought into office by funding from the fossil fuel industry and help from the Murdoch Press. If you follow the money trail since coming to office its as clear as mud.
    As for the "dead" carbon horse I respectfully point out that THIS WAS WORKING and that BIG BUSINESS ACCEPTED THE TAX with the exception of the fossil fuel industries. Given that over 25% of energy in Queensland and South Australia comes off solar roofs it is clear why the Carbon Tax had to go. And now the coal interests are getting excess power fed back into the grid for 5 cents per KWH????
    wally
    31st Jul 2015
    3:28pm
    mick, your theories about big business and Rupert and Gina and the miners all conspiring to put and Keep Tony Abbott and the LNP coalition in government are verging on paranoia.

    If Bill Shorten wants to become PM, he needs to level with the Australian public about what he is going to do about the Australian economy and how his programs are going to influence our lives. This is the question I want to see him address, not whether he thinks gays should be able to marry each other or what Bronwyn Bishop should do. These are side "issues" and distractions that draw the public's attention away from the real issues that will affect our daily lives.

    PS. 4 U mick, :) :) :)
    Anonymous
    31st Jul 2015
    3:39pm
    Right on Wally except Mick is not verging on paranoia .....
    Kaz
    31st Jul 2015
    4:44pm
    We have solar and haven't paid an electricity bill yet. Must have got in at the right time! I don't know if you can blame labor for the current state of affairs - I do remember Tony telling us we would be better without the carbon tax - a commendable scheme that never had time to show its benefits.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:18pm
    So the trolls did not see the front page of the Telegraph the day after Labor stated that it was going to use a similar systems of emissions trading as the rest of the world. And of course the same trolls cannot remember the vile one sided attacks and vitriol which the Murdoch Press and the big media outlets ran in the lead up to the last election. You needed to watch the 7 Election Night Coverage to understand that the media was involved in politics rather than just reporting it.
    Paranoia? No gentlemen. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck then it is a duck.
    A troll is a troll is a troll.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:18pm
    So the trolls did not see the front page of the Telegraph the day after Labor stated that it was going to use a similar systems of emissions trading as the rest of the world. And of course the same trolls cannot remember the vile one sided attacks and vitriol which the Murdoch Press and the big media outlets ran in the lead up to the last election. You needed to watch the 7 Election Night Coverage to understand that the media was involved in politics rather than just reporting it.
    Paranoia? No gentlemen. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck then it is a duck.
    A troll is a troll is a troll.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    10:06pm
    Q.. Why is a Duck ?
    A.. Because only one of its feet is the same as the other ! :-)
    Chrissy L
    30th Jul 2015
    7:30pm
    I do not know if Coal is the answer. I think not. I think Tony Abbot needs to get serious about renewable energy. I think he really, really, needs to listen more to our Scientists, after all, they are the ones who are doing the "rigidy didge" research and are at the "coal face" of what this is all about. And whilst he is at it, get rid of Bronwyn Bishop she is defineitly part of the flat earth society, who believes the people"should pay for her presence in our lives. I think not. Get a more balanced Speaker, and get some respect from the Australian people. We are really, really, fed up with her bias and extreme spending. If you want to win the next election, get moving!! We are really fed up. Lift your game!!
    MICK
    30th Jul 2015
    8:12pm
    You miss the whole point. It has nothing to do with listening. It has everything to do with election funding and pandering to those who supply it. Perhaps you need to consult with the coal industry which is supplying Liberal Party election funding. I suggest that this is where the answer lies.
    As for poor Bronny, give me a break. We all understand that the rules which apply to Labor do not apply to this lot.
    Precious 1
    30th Jul 2015
    11:44pm
    I keep writing this the same old thing but Australia doesn't want or see it...Coal is the biggest polluter on this planet...if persisting on coal mining in the interior etc and the other countries this will lead to not only early retirement but no planet at all as it will eventually burn itself out us included to be quite blunt.......with the onslaught of heat and [planet heating up to such an extent impossible to handle.........
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:30am
    We are listening Precious but big business is all about profits and cares nothing about the environment or the planet. The fact that our great grandchildren are going to inherit a tip means zilch when the lifestyles of the rich are at stake. History tells us this and the behaviour of the vandals reinforces it.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    9:51am
    Write to Canberra and tell them We can no longer Afford You and Your all dismissed !!!
    Please apply for Newstart ! :-) :-) Perks Cancelled !
    Anonymous
    31st Jul 2015
    3:48pm
    Be great when the coalition is relected in another landslide like the last maybe we will have a senate that will pass some bills ....To cut govt spending not just ones that raise tax.,.
    I can't see any policies of the new left labor party than will appeal to the tradies in western Sydney that will decide the election .
    Can't see the Muslims that vote labor in inner Sydney agreeing to the new policies on surrogacy IVF and adoption for gays voting for it .
    I think labor going left is on a suicide mission as happened in the UK
    Adrianus
    31st Jul 2015
    4:21pm
    Pete really all they have to offer is welfare for the people who don't need it,
    Sexual diversification, more power to unions, carbon tax mark2, transformation of our Navy and Coastal Watch to taxi service and the destruction of foreign good will by pulling apart the FTAs set up by this government.
    I would also expect to see more refugee detention centres built to accommodate the mass influx of another 200,000. They will come quicker this time.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    5:23pm
    Yep Its over Pete ! :-(
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:21pm
    The Frank/Pete political advertising. Don't waste your time Frank. No amount of perverse rhetoric is going to convince readers that your posts are anything other than the political advertisement they are.
    Anonymous
    1st Aug 2015
    4:02am
    The thing is the 12 or so on here who talk to themselves do not matter a damn in a federal election .
    97 per cent of voters will vote the way theY always have 3 per cent will decide the election 3 per cent who change their vote is a 6 per cent swing ,,
    Even that 3 per cent only matter in marginal seats .. Labor to recover from its landslide Loss at the last election need to capture twenty seats ten in western Sydney an impossible task . The next election is already decided . IMO with an increased majority for the coalition .
    Labor both here and the UK will be in the wilderness for a long time with policies to attract the Ten per cent that vote green and in danger oF Splitting again..
    Adrianus
    1st Aug 2015
    9:00am
    Interesting thoughts Pete.
    I was of the opinion that swing voters are at around 20% and increasing as they become disenfranchised with their traditional party. Of course it's possible to have 20% change the way they voted and have a differing result ranging from between unchanged to 20%, with both ends of the scale highly unlikely.
    IMO Labor have been backing themselves into a corner by not having any policies of their own. Labor policies are either those of Greens, Unions or reworked Coalition policies. If they continue to show a lack of leadership "thinking voters" will question the logic in having government by a minor party, as we saw during the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd travesty. By far the worst government in Australia's history. The last time we gave Labor a chance they let us down badly. They were there for themselves. The arrogance was bewildering. How does Shorten show that he has changed?
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    9:27am
    So here we have the government trolls talking.
    There may not be a heap of contributors on this website but there are many readers who do not post and many people talk to others.
    This government has been on the nose since day 1. It stinks like a rotting carcass. The arrogance of the above posters and their employer has no bounds as evidenced by queen Bronwyn giving the royal wave as she continues on as though the masses have no right to tell her to go. This is a sign of the contempt with which we are all held by the current government. It has to go and one way or another IT WILL BE GONE.
    So by all means print your vile anti Labor and anti union crap boys. NOBODY IS TAKING YOU SERIOUSLY. Not even those of feeble mind believe any of it!!
    Anonymous
    1st Aug 2015
    11:00am
    Australia has never elected a left wing government . So by New Labor moving to left wing policies away froM the policies of Hawke Keating that set this country up for prosperity and carried on by Howard ( except Howard introduced the disastrous family tax credits ) they are setting themselves up for oblivion .
    I can't think of one subset of Australian society that their new policies do not offend
    Adrianus
    1st Aug 2015
    11:55am
    Years ago I read a book called "you can negotiate anything." The message was simply "give the other party what they want."
    I have watched Labor do this for the last 8 years. The problem for Labor is that this is not about negotiating. As you point to, this is about managing circumstances. Because the factions within Labor cannot agree on what the circumstantial reality is they simply have no chance of managing the perceived reality.
    Thanks for not picking me up on my maths by the way.
    particolor
    1st Aug 2015
    12:33pm
    English will do thou ! Its Math ! :-)
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    7:48pm
    Pete: Sounds like you like the shell game. Left. Right. Up. Down??? You may also like to remember Peter Costello who gave young girls $5000 to get pregnant. Shows a total lack of intelligence from your heros who were wasting the best of the mining boom years. I always find it interesting how you and Frank only deride the Labor side of politics whilst not owning up to your side's sins. Have a say about Bronny's NEXT corrupt dealing. So should Bishop now pay this one back as well and not resign? We are already at a stage much worse than Peter Slipper with the dishonest government sticking with their apparent crooked member. And so it goes on.....
    To the contrary Pete (Frank???) the majority of the population are not offended by Labor policies but are offended by the disgraceful behaviour from this government. If Labor gets the boat arrivals right (cost them government previously) then your man will lose big time. The policies are good, but then because the rich are not being sent boatloads of money you would say otherwise.
    Frank: We are talking about 2 dead horses...both sides of politics. The question is do you vote for somebody who intends to take money from the poor and give it to the very rich or do you vote for the other side which at the very least ploughs money back into the future of the nation? A no brainer. Troll as you will but you do not have a leg to stand on. As always I advocate that voters VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT and one whose preference does not flow back to the current disreputable and dishonest government. Same old story.
    CindyLou
    31st Jul 2015
    12:13pm
    I've just got back from china last Friday...I am no expert re energy, but what I saw was disgusting. Beijing air is that polluted you cannot see further than bout 1 kilometer, no point going to high lookouts etc as you can't see anything.

    From my understanding china uses coal as well as other forms of energy production. I don't think china is concerned eith the renewable energy debate.
    So glad to come home to beautiful Australia.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    9:25pm
    You cited the reason we avoided China, not that Japan was much better.
    China is of course well into solar and whilst the idiots and their trolls work hard to stay with the coal dinosaur China will wean itself off coal in time. Australia will be the last first world country to not change and will then be decimated as responsible nations impose carbon levies on our exports. That is the price when you have idiots elected by coal money.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    9:40pm
    Sheeesh ! I wish we had have had Solar Powered Steam Engines ! :-) Back a bit ! And I wouldn't had to shovel all that Back Breaking Coal into them :-(
    Toots
    31st Jul 2015
    2:57pm
    The only real way to go is nuclear
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    5:29pm
    That's what Iran Recons too ! :-(
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    7:49pm
    Will blow up in your face. The worst option.

    31st Jul 2015
    6:45pm
    hey mick here are some facts to enlighten you and hopeful extend your horizons beyond your mental capacities and your beloved labor party, the carbon tax, put up by the labor party when they were in government made electricity more expensive as were their set it in law decissions that 20% had to be renewable which resulted in price hikes of about 20%, when scrapped overall prices went down, maybe not as much as was forecast as firms such as those dealing in food, petrol etc, did not pass the full savings on.
    however mick,to think your precious leader, you so adore, billy, alias mack the knive, shorten, states the labor party, that if elected to government, will bring back the CARBON TAX, yet I have not seen you making any mention of this, maybe you were attending the national labor party meeting held in melbourne last week-end, which may be why there were no comments made by you at the time or conveniently forgotten.
    Your statement about battery storage, may be you can tell us how many families can afford to put solar panels, let alone buy these batteries who are priced at more then $ 15 (fifteen) thousand dollars each, on their roofs!
    as for your comments in regard to Greece, their solar panels have not resulted in a better livestyle, their unemployment has risen to over 20%, there is no money to pay the pensions or hospitals and to top it off their government is a left run labor party, what a recipe for disaster.
    As for your derogatory comments on to-days Australian government, I agree they are not the bee's knees, however what labor did to our great nation when in government the last time is beyond the pall or sanity, leaving us with a debt my kids grandchildren will still be paying off and as your comments in regard to Germany and other European countries, have you ever heard of nuclear power, that you and your labor mates hate so much, being declared to be the cleanest power available, but as always mick can only follow his party, labor's directions, hopefully one day he'll see the light and that will be the day I believe in miracles.
    MICK
    31st Jul 2015
    10:03pm
    Get an education heemskerk. Your post is a nonsense.
    1. Electricity prices went up for one reason only: huge amounts of money were put into the poles and wires because the network had been let run down. Nothing to do with the Carbon Tax as evidenced by the repeal of same which saw prices continue to increase, NOT GO DOWN.
    2. I do not support either side of politics. I have stated this before. You are clearly suffering from dementia or you would not be making this assertion again. If I (ever) appear to be supporting Labor it is probably because the trolls on this website are posting dishonest rhetoric and total twaddle which are short on fact at the very least and are intentionally dishonest at best.
    3. Your BS about price hikes IGNORES the fact that WE WERE COMPENSATED FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF THE CARBON TAX. The tax free threshhold went from $6000 to $18000 and other adjustments were also made. You fail to mention any of this. How strange!
    4. I understand that the Labor Party stated that it will NOT bring back the Carbon Tax..........even though YOU get to keep the above adjustments. Lucky you!!! Your post is similar to the scare campaign run through the Telegraph paper last week. So what is your connection? Are you a troll?
    5. Your further nonsense about families not being able to afford solar panels is a beat up too. Do families not buy $60 000 4-Wheel drives? Yeah right. If this were a concern then the government could pay for the system and consumers could buy their energy through approved outlets at current prices until their systems were paid for, after which they get their energy for FREE. How does that sound?
    6. What the hell does the well being of Greece have to do with their solar panels? Only a moron would make such a statement. Just for the record Greece is destitute because of the corruption between the rich and its government. In case your dementia is working overtime I'll help you to understand. The rich pulled hundreds of billions euros out of the Greek banks and moved them to other countries over the past year....aided and abetted by the previous Greek government. Work that one out!
    7. I stand by my comments about the current government. Deceitful, dishonest, malicious and low life real estate type salesmen fits the bill. Most of the front bench are totally disreputable types and no Australian of good character would associate with people like this. You are clearly the exception.
    8. THE LABOR DEBT - I have written previously about this. Howard did not rule with a GFC. Rudd and Gillard did. Your children and grandchildren were not thrown out of work as occurred in other countries. They did not lose their homes as did many in other countries. Whilst I never agreed with Labor sending people cheques to spend I did understand that the country had a choice: do what your Liberal cutthroats would have done and sack them all or do what Labor and others did and keep people in jobs. Your talk about future debt, as always, also ignores how much debt the current government has run up in only 2 years. It ain't pretty and surprise surprise.....the media never talks about the debt any longer does it!! Never a mention of that in the next of your one sided anti Labor rants either.
    Your post defies logic heemskerk. Your political views are those of somebody supporting their life long football team. And your observations show all the signs of somebody who is experiencing cognitive meltdown.
    My apologies for being rude. I try not to be but sometimes when I see posts like yours I need to give an honest response. I hope that I have given one.
    If you want a debate then kindly stay with the facts, not the lies and BS. Cheers.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    10:20pm
    A bit late to ask Onassis to pay His Tax ! :-(
    Anonymous
    1st Aug 2015
    3:51am
    Never have so few talked so much bullshit ....
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    9:29am
    A bit hard to deal with the facts Frank/Pete? That is where you lose out. That is where this lying government loses out.
    Adrianus
    1st Aug 2015
    11:14am
    mick you're losing it. Have you always found it difficult dealing with what is in front of you? Or has this just come about since those noisy neighbours drove you to distraction? The above conversation you were having with heemsy not me.
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    7:53pm
    Hard to tell sometimes Frank. You are not what you claim to be.
    As always I extend the same offer to you: give me your details and I'll check you out and visit you. Then I'll let this community know where you fit in. I'd be betting on a beaten LNP candidate now working as a troll for the government. Right?
    Paddles
    31st Jul 2015
    10:31pm
    Hi All

    I have recently resumed scanning YLC after a sabbatical and noted (and missed) the contentious issues which used to elicit spirited exchanges between contributors.
    Perhaps more specifically, I miss Mussitate and his narrow view on and vitriolic comment on political matters. But I note an acceptable replacement in the form of Mick who, if only he were to start unloading on the Murdoch Empire, would just about fill the void.
    particolor
    31st Jul 2015
    10:37pm
    Yes ! More Snottyness needed ! :-)
    ^ Is that a Word ? :-)

    31st Jul 2015
    11:04pm
    despite falling world prices, Australia continues to export more coal than ever before. And the composition of those exports dramatises why the coal debate in Australia is so ill-informed. While the ABC dealt with coal as if its only task was to generate power, the reality is that steel-making ‘metallurgical’ coal, which cannot be replaced by wind, solar or other ‘renewables’, earns 40 per cent more export income ($22 billion) than the steaming coal that its supporters, like Tony Abbott, say is needed to provide the cheap source of power necessary to ease third world poverty. Yet the ABC focussed, in its ill-researched 4 Corners, entirely on the thermal product, because that is the enemy of the renewable energy dogma.
    Adrianus
    1st Aug 2015
    8:24am
    Pete, very good point!
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    9:31am
    Another post from this government for this government.
    As normal: lies, damned lies and statistics. Your argument about selling more than ever ignores the FACTS that the price has fallen through the floor and that the world is moving away from coal. Good story though.
    Anonymous
    1st Aug 2015
    9:33am
    But it is not only Australia that faces continuing increases in coal production despite the (heavily subsidised) growth of renewable energy. Massive increases in Asian demand for coal are forecast by the International Energy Agency. Within 10 years, India’s electricity generation is projected to exceed the combined current output of Japan, South Korea and Australia, with a tripling of modest wind and solar but with coal providing the great bulk of the rise. And while Indonesia is currently India’s main supplier, Australia’s higher quality lower-emissions thermal coal is the reason Indian power suppliers are keen to invest in Australian coal. Much of the smog that shrouds Asian cities at present comes less from carbon dioxide than from sulphur and ash emissions from the low-grade coal Australia could replace.
    Anonymous
    1st Aug 2015
    9:35am
    This and my earlier quote are from this weeks Spectator ...
    Adrianus
    1st Aug 2015
    11:39am
    I still believe that Labor's tactic of fighting market forces is disruptive, divisive and will not work. We need political leaders who can work with the private sector to achieve common interest goals and bring Australia together. We are sick of hearing about Bishop's $5,000 helicopter ride and Shorten's secret $70,000 bribe which saw workers worse off. We know these politicians are not perfect, but they are the best we have. So our job is to choose the best of them and be constructive. As you elude to above we cannot simply rely on main stream media to give us the facts.
    MICK
    1st Aug 2015
    7:58pm
    You crack me up Pete/Frank. Ha, ha, ha, ha...........
    1. Coal will be around for a while but it is a dying commodity. Solar is going to annihilate coal's business model. Good try.
    2. So Frank want's to ignore the Bishop corruption enquiry? Of course he does....including the next identical scam Bishop has been caught out with. I imagine she will offer to repay this one as well. YOU KNOW THAT CORRUPTION IS HAPPENING WHEN THIS KEEPS HAPPENING AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THE MEMBER IS PROTECTED BY THE REST OF THE DISHONEST MOB. Of course the Peter Slipper issue is not worth mentioning when the shoe is now on the other foot.
    particolor
    1st Aug 2015
    8:14pm
    I like Aeroplane Jelly !
    Aeroplane Jelly for Free !
    Adrianus
    2nd Aug 2015
    8:42am
    Ha Ha HA!!! mick, you are always good for a laugh.
    Do you honestly think these Labor Politicians just recently found out about Bishop's travel expenditures? They have known this for some time but bringing it out now gives the media something to get excited about, other than Shorten's secret deals.

    If only Labor could use such careful management when it concerns our well being.

    The mud has been sitting on the shovel for 6 months waiting to be flung into a fan pointed at Bronnie.
    Will we now hear about her Harley ride to a hen's night in 1960?
    MICK
    2nd Aug 2015
    9:22am
    And do you think that the disreputable Abbott team were not always aware of Peter Slipper. Poor poor Bronny. It is sooooo sad. Fine to persecute Slipper through the courts but MULTIPLE offender Bishop is "sorry" and lets forget about it fellas.
    Funny how the big end of town and their mouthpiece government always expect a different set of rules for themselves. Sickening really!
    What hypocrites you and your employer are Frank. You attitude and your behaviour would irk Australians.
    particolor
    2nd Aug 2015
    9:38am
    We are at the height of IRKDOM at the moment ! :-(
    MICK
    2nd Aug 2015
    7:36pm
    Breaking news: Poor Bronny has been sacked by her mate. So sad. Whilst publicly putting on a chagrin face the plotters are privately crying and asking why this should happen to their own....
    Enjoy the wake Frank/Pete. Occasionally there is justice in this life and what comes around goes around.
    particolor
    2nd Aug 2015
    7:40pm
    Its on Twitter ! ..The Flight of the Bumble Bee !! < That's My Version of it ! :-(
    Supernan
    2nd Aug 2015
    12:49pm
    Coal has never created prosperity for anyone except the coal owners. They threw people off their farms, to mine the coal under them. The Coal Miners lived far worse lives than they ever had before. Kids, ponies had to work down in them to keep their families fed - especially when the husbands were killed in unsafe mines.

    Most villages used wind or water mills for power.

    The industrial revolution disposessed the ordinary people by ruining their cottage industries, poluting ther water & land. Who got rich ? The big Mill owners.

    Does no-one read history any more ?

    Developing countries are managing very well to improve their lives by using newer & more efficient solar, wind, geo-thermal, methane from animal waste & rubbish recycling.

    There are solar powered ships, cars, etc already. Lots of farmers generate their own power from animal waste or ethanol or solar or wind & many use a mix of all of them.

    I lived in London when terrible smog was not unusual due to coal burning fires. Black sooty fog ! Coming home from school, I had to count the gates to know where home was.

    Drive through Qld towns where the coal cars travel down the centre of the town. Sick kids, black trees & black grass. But they cant afford to just walk away from their homes & Gov wont help them either cget the coal trucks covered or move the rail or buy them out.

    Oh yes coal is wonderful alright - for the rich !
    MICK
    2nd Aug 2015
    5:07pm
    You have that right Nan. Australia and the third world are the coal kings. The rese are trying to divest as Abbott and his cronies continue to support coal. Well why wouldn't you if you were getting election funding from the fossil fuel industries.
    Spread the work Nan. This government needs to go but this can only happen when voters top voting in the bastards who work against us all.
    LiveItUp
    3rd Aug 2015
    2:47pm
    It is already started to happen. One has only to look what happened to the four seats in northern NSW in the recent state election. From memory all 4 seats had a margin of approx 25% but they are now all marginal seats with the greens winning one of them and very nearly taking a second one. Why? The threat of another dirty fossil fuel "gas".
    MICK
    4th Aug 2015
    7:54am
    Of course gas is not clean.......but it is a darn sight better than coal and may need to be a short term alternative. Personally I would be hoping that Australia could go green with a gas fired backup, although that is not looking too good because the idiots who run this country have sold all of Australia's gas to Asia. And you wonder why business in this country cannot compete with the rest of the world and why our governments are the laughing stock of the world!
    Supernan
    2nd Aug 2015
    12:49pm
    Coal has never created prosperity for anyone except the coal owners. They threw people off their farms, to mine the coal under them. The Coal Miners lived far worse lives than they ever had before. Kids, ponies had to work down in them to keep their families fed - especially when the husbands were killed in unsafe mines.

    Most villages used wind or water mills for power.

    The industrial revolution disposessed the ordinary people by ruining their cottage industries, poluting ther water & land. Who got rich ? The big Mill owners.

    Does no-one read history any more ?

    Developing countries are managing very well to improve their lives by using newer & more efficient solar, wind, geo-thermal, methane from animal waste & rubbish recycling.

    There are solar powered ships, cars, etc already. Lots of farmers generate their own power from animal waste or ethanol or solar or wind & many use a mix of all of them.

    I lived in London when terrible smog was not unusual due to coal burning fires. Black sooty fog ! Coming home from school, I had to count the gates to know where home was.

    Drive through Qld towns where the coal cars travel down the centre of the town. Sick kids, black trees & black grass. But they cant afford to just walk away from their homes & Gov wont help them either cget the coal trucks covered or move the rail or buy them out.

    Oh yes coal is wonderful alright - for the rich !
    wally
    4th Aug 2015
    12:15am
    You appear to be stuck in a 19th or 20th Century time warp regarding coal mining practices in those centuries, supernan. Sure, the Industrial Revolution ended many cottage industries in England, but the people spinning and weaving in their homes found work in the mills you despise. The upshot was that cloth was cheaper to make and clothing was more affordable.

    If the un named developing countries you claim are doing so well, then why the carbon tax money that was collected was supposed to be sent off to the developing countries as a result if an ETS scheme as a selling point to con the public into going along with it? If what you is true, then the developing countries didn't need it in the first place.

    You present a lot of "glittering generalities" about a few examples of solar powered ships cars etc.








    Supernan, your views on coal seem stuck in a 19th and 20th Century mindset. Remember the clearances in 19th Century Scotland where the lairds found they made more money from their estates by selling wool to the mills down south in England than they did from the rents their farmer tenants paid? A lot of the "peasants" wound up working in the mines or in the mills. Certainly, the mills ended cottage industries like spinning and weaving, but the spinners and weavers found work in the cotton mills. Were they worse off than they were before? Did the serfdom of the Middle Ages make the lives of the poor better than their factory and miner descendants?

    You fail to identify the developing counties where they are managing so well using "newer and more efficient" (renewable" energy sources. As I recall, one of the reasons Kevin Rudd espoused in favour of lumbering us all with a Carbon Tax/ETS was that the money it collected was going to be sent to developing countries cope better with climate change. According to you, these developing countries are doing very well (thank you very much) and thus the money raised by the carbon taxes would not have been necessary.

    Can you tell me where I can buy one of the solar powered cars you mention? I'd also like to see a solar powered ship, now that you've mentioned them. If wind power is so good, why did coal powered steamships replace the sailing ships?

    It is interesting that you mention methane. That gas is a by product of what your above post is full of.














    who makes them? Where can we go see them? And buy the cars.
    AB Kenlow.
    3rd Aug 2015
    11:28am
    Some great work is being done in Newcastle @ ausgrid.com.au and @ ceramicfuelcells.com.au in Melbourne, using Blue Gen technology which has been selling well in Europe for some time. Check it out. Kenlow.
    particolor
    3rd Aug 2015
    12:59pm
    Will Do !! :-)
    LiveItUp
    3rd Aug 2015
    2:40pm
    Blue Gen technology uses another dirty fossil fuel so that just a another backwards step.
    particolor
    3rd Aug 2015
    2:48pm
    Good Grief !! Back and forth the country went until the back met the forth and we ended up right back where we started, fourth ! :-(
    LiveItUp
    3rd Aug 2015
    3:15pm
    Yep and I've also seen the plans for at least 3 nuclear power stations on the eastern seaboard of NSW. So where is it all really heading?
    particolor
    3rd Aug 2015
    3:24pm
    Fukushima will have nothing on us !! :-)
    wally
    3rd Aug 2015
    11:37pm
    The disaster at Fukushima was because the nuke plant was placed where it was vulnerable to natural forces. The earthquake that caused the tsunami that flooded the place was the result. It never should have been placed there. I understand that the Japanese govt is hauling the bosses of the Fukushima before the courts asa a consequence of the disaster

    Luckily earthquake caused tsunamis are not a natural phenomenon on Australia's east coast. It is unhelpful and irrelevant to bring Fukushima into the discussion. So if you want to replace coal, you must start going nuclear. All of Australia's gas production is either uneconomic for domestic consumers or earmarked for overseas sales.

    Renewables? How much of Australia's energy needs are met by renewables? At what cost? A unnecessary carbon tax had to be inflicted on the Australian public to sugar coat renewable energy costs and make renewable energy more palatable to the consumer.

    Now Shorten is jabbering about reinstating a carbon tax / emission tax scam if he wins the next election. Don't the Greenie idealogues and their Labor lefty adherents and their stooges in this forum understand that Renewable energy is a dead end and is doomed to extinction due to the exorbitant cost involved?
    MICK
    4th Aug 2015
    7:51am
    You miss the point wally that radioactive isotopes do not just disappear. They have a half life of around 20,000 years. In case you do not understand what that means it means that they decay to half their radioactivity in that time.....so they are deadly for maybe a million years. Of course you and the other supporters of nuclear energy support keeping this stuff in plastic drums in the desert or old mine shafts with never a thought about maintenance of the drums (there won't be any) and what happens when in the future the deadly waste leeches into the aquifers.
    As always thoughtless comment from those who support the nuclear option with scant a thought about the SIGNIFICANT downside, which never exists in the minds of the feeble.
    particolor
    4th Aug 2015
    10:05am
    "All of Australia's Gas Production is either uneconomic for domestic consumers or earmarked for overseas sales" ? What makes it so economic for overseas sales ? Domestic Rip Off that's what ! :-( Now when they have sucked the lot off at BB prices, do We buy Gas back from (Somewhere) at 10 times the Cost ? :-(
    particolor
    4th Aug 2015
    10:10am
    PS.. What a Greedy No Thought For The Future Country We Live In !!
    wally
    4th Aug 2015
    11:01am
    Oh ye of little faith! Regarding the storage of nuclear waste, I think that science and technology will develop and create methods of safe storage for the used fuel rods and other nuclear waste. You seem to think that nuclear waste would be stored in wheelie bins and dropped willy-nilly down a hole somewhere in the outback. I think that a lot more thought will go into the disposal of nuclear waste than was expended when nuclear testing was done at Bikini Atoll , Maralinga and Mururoa.

    Who knows, perhaps Australia's Antarctic Territory might be a good place to dig into (below the glaciers and deep into the bed rock) for the storage of nuclear waste. Where there is a will, the boffins will find a way to solve this problem.

    As far as isotopes and the half life they have as far as harmful substances go. why is it that Hiroshima and Nagasaki, (given the first taste of nuclear warfare seventy years ago) are not uninhabitable glowing wastelands?

    As far as Australia's sale of gas resources goes, this is another dumb idea the politicians and bureaucrats cooked up in order to boost money coming into Australia to "improve" Australia's balance of trade. To get the foreign customers to agree to the deal, they had to promise low prices (too bad for local Aussie gas consumers) to get the deal through.

    These same bureaucrats and politicians are the ones in favour of "renewable" energy sources so we can buy all of the wind turbines, generators and solar panels from overseas, with money borrowed from the Chinese. Let's not cry about the so called renewable energy jobs lost when the Carbon Tax got the axe. How may Australians were working in the renewable energy industry, anyway? The only thing close to the renewable energy industry that took a hit was when Rudd cancelled the Pink batts scheme after four young installers died, and that wasn't even producing renewable energy.

    I agree with pari's last comment about the no thought for the future and that is because of the lack of long range planning our leaders have for the future. They only think in terms of the next election. The state of Australia's infrastructure and the lost opportunities to get that right testify to this.
    particolor
    4th Aug 2015
    12:27pm
    The Emperor Penguins will Sue You !! :-(
    MICK
    5th Aug 2015
    8:29am
    wally: what an uninformed comment. "I think that science and technology will develop and create methods of safe storage". Nice that you THINK that she'll be right. Bury it? Give me strength. Are you a half wit or what.
    Renewables ARE PAYING THEIR WAY. Just ask Queenslanders who are being paid 5 cents per KWH and paying closer to 50 cents when they have to buy it back.
    Your comment about money borrowed from China is a nonsense. So what about the next Royal Commission? Money borrowed from China for a personal Abbott led campaign against Labor....again???
    Your comment about jobs lost in the renewables industry is incorrect. There were tens of thousands lost, not hundreds.
    Pink batts did not create energy. They saved it.
    wally
    5th Aug 2015
    10:30am
    Hi parti. I think getting sued by the penguins would be better than being pecked to death by the pesky critters!

    And mick. More info about the hordes of Australian workers in the renewable energy industries that lost their jobs (according to you) when the axe fell on the carbon tax, please. Where were these industries located, how many were employed and what exactly were the employees doing? Or were they baking the pies in the skies that the ALP was promising (and still promising,) to deliver.

    More facts and less bluster, please.

    3rd Aug 2015
    5:01pm
    micky, micky, your great hatred towards to-days government is clouding your sight and fogging your brains up as nobody can be so ignorant of the facts in regard to the last labor government. However you gave me a great laugh when you stated, by your own words,
    'if I (ever) appear to be supporting labor" you are really fast becoming the joke of these columns.
    the facts of the last labor government don't lie, the CARBON TAX made the electricity more expensive, which was acknowledged by labor by an increase in the supplement paid to the pensioners, a fact I mentioned in one of my earlier comments, yet now we have seen and heard that labor, if it wins, god help us when that happen, will bring back the CARBON TAX, by calling it another name does not change the fact that it will increase the price, not only of the electricity, but it will also increase the cost of living, food, clothing etc.
    I also found more info on those solar storage batteries you are so fond of, due to Mr Google, God bless him, price at the moment $ 25000.00 each plus postage, minimum need two batteries with a two years life guarantee, also was told that most likely the price might come down in the future but not to hold your breath, not many families, let alone pensioners can afford $50000.00 every two years and as for your rant in regard to the rich pulling their money out of the banks in Greece, so did everybody else as the writing was on the wall with their socialist labor government.
    renewables certainly will play a part, however until it becomes a 24 hour job, coal will play a part also, of course you can always go nuclear proven to be the cleanest fuel of them all.
    however mick, keep believing in a labor government, who are known for their spending like drunken sailors, not just in the federal sphere but also when running the states in Australia, may be you can inform us when was the last labor government anywhere in Australia that had a surplus when voted out of government. to be honest I have never seen one in my lifetime, than again I am only 80 years old.
    MICK
    4th Aug 2015
    7:46am
    No hatred Frank. Just utter contempt.
    You continue to disseminate the LNP lies. The price of electricity WENT UP after the Carbon Tax was repealed.........SO ELECTRICITY PRICES WERE NEVER CONTROLLED BY THIS. You know that no matter how many times a lying Greg Hunt says otherwise. If it were not so then after the repeal they should have dropped by more than half. They didn't!!!!
    Your rant about solar is total fabrication as well. You can get a Tesla battery for around $7000, with the price falling sharply in the coming years. $50,000 every 2 years??? Crazy stuff!
    If you are 80 years old and writing this sort of misinformation then clearly you are suffering from dementia.
    And for the umpteenth time I DO NOT SUPPORT EITHER SIDE OF POLITICS. Both are corrupt.
    Adrianus
    4th Aug 2015
    9:02am
    What did I say now??? I seem to be getting the blame for everything.
    I'm not Tony Abbott!
    particolor
    4th Aug 2015
    9:09am
    Corrupt,Corrupt,Inapt we tell You !! :-(
    Adrianus
    4th Aug 2015
    9:22am
    "I do not support either side of politics?"
    mick we may be old (and slow) but we are not stupid!
    Anonymous
    4th Aug 2015
    2:19pm
    When renewables are competitive with Gas or coal due to advances in storage technology and we don't have to run current power stations at full tilt to cover base load then we will All adopt them . In the meantime we should not waste taxpayers money on picking winners ..
    The labor govt subsiding international car companies to produce "Green " cars in Australia was just money down the drain...For instance . We will have to close windmills in the future as they will not be able to compete with Solar with local Storage..
    Anonymous
    4th Aug 2015
    2:19pm
    I also do not support either major party but am a member of the LDP
    MICK
    5th Aug 2015
    8:14am
    Frank: If I defend Labor then it is because of morally deficient and dishonest posts like yours which intentionally massage the facts to deceive readers. Nothing more. Leave the anti Labor and anti union rhetoric out of your propaganda and I will not bite.
    Pete: Your posts very much resemble LNP rhetoric and propaganda but yet you claim to support the LDP. I note that the LDP supports smaller government and lower taxes. So do you support lower taxes for the rich?
    MICK
    5th Aug 2015
    8:22am
    Pete: your spiel about renewables competing against coal and gas miss one very important point. Renewables are in their infancy. As we have seen the coal industry will stop at nothing to protect its business model. When Queensland and South Australia started to get a significant number of solar roofs the coal industry changed the government and everything renewables is now being shut down by the great vandal Tony Abbott.
    Whilst you and the trolls will complain about the 'cost' to taxpayers of renewable energy you fail to acknowledge that the systems are paying their way through 5 cents/KWH paid to owners you feed power back into the grid and through multi billion dollar power stations which are approaching end of life and are going to need to be rebuilt soon.....at huge cost to the taxpayer.
    As always the anti renewables government and coal supporters look the other way when they talk about taxpayer money. Solar is free energy. So is wind power. As with all things 'free' in time they prove their worth.....if they are not tampered with by vested interests before that time.
    Not Senile Yet!
    4th Aug 2015
    3:31pm
    As long as it is bought..it will be sold!!
    As for the renewable energy debate.....we in Oz are the laughing stock of the world at present.
    Whilst we do have an abundance of Coal...we also have an abundance of Sunshine/Solar energy....yet the world leaders in Solar Power research are Countries covered in snow!!!
    Sell the Coal whilst the market exists.....but put an exit tax not unlike the GST to finance our research into alternative energy.
    It is not rocket science to know that todays motor vehicle will be in the tip or recycled within 10-15years. Science has brought Planes Trains and Automobiles rapidly into reliable transport...so too can it bring renewable energy rapidly into everything.....Just look how far the Mobile Phone and Computers have come....not to mention their programs.
    Time to pull your Ostrich Head out of the Sand.....Time to accommodate BOTH into future planning!!!
    To do so you need to Accept the Possibilities by Allowing Investing...let the free market handle it!!!!
    You know Tony....the Free Market of investors.....encouraged by innovative Liberal Governments.
    Stop trying to block it thru legislated Barriers!!!!
    Take the Blinkers Off Mate....it was Your Party that wanted a Smarter Australia.....so get on with it by NOT Blocking it!!!
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    9:06am
    If its running at a Profit it will Be Sold ! :(
    Adrianus
    5th Aug 2015
    6:30pm
    Well said Senile. mick you have a closed mind! Take your blinkers off!! it's the wealthy who are making a squillion out of renewable energy. Courtesy of your Labor buddies!
    Anonymous
    5th Aug 2015
    6:37pm
    Ylc out of step with consumers who are sick of high prices due to stupid Green policies and labor chasing a minority vote to save its inner city seats . Tough .
    The next election is already decided

    4th Aug 2015
    5:43pm
    I'm ourt of step with global warming and renewables too.That is because I'm not dumbed down like most lefties and those who take their views from the media who are mostly left and dumbed down too these days not like the old journo's who investigated and were smart cookies. Ask older Editors.
    Anyway in freezing Tasmania this winter, colder than last which was colder than one prior to that and so on - and even summers not so good. We cannot grow tomatoes in the open any longer after years of it. Not many can too cold nights and they ripen late April last lot and were rotting at same time on the vine. Need hot house now. So much for its warming. Global world Temp in 2012 was same as 1997. And it hasnt warmed since but then the data used was incomplete left our places like Mongolia and Russian steppes making the date useless as they said in those emails when panicking because not warming. Just a scam to rip us all off in the west on electricity prices so can pass the monies from RE Tax to UN and on the way through they ;; grab a bit for their troubles and est passed on and maybe just maybe get to the poorest people but dont hold your breath. Left aim for NWO and srpeading the wealth is one way of leveling us all down so can have One World government, The UN, hopeless lot just imagine them in charge! Anyway coal is cheap and clean today compared and still can clean it up more if necessary to stop CO2 which we breath and need to grow food anyway. They treat us like mushrooms well I'm not one. Ha Ha. I dont vote left Labor or Greens as they are jsut for this silly idea of Utopia. Communism by another name. They hate capitalism but that is what makes us have a decent stanard of living or did before they infested our bureaucracies and political parties and started to bring down the west. Helping Islam to help bring us down too shows how silly the left are, when Islam is intent on doing the exact same taking over the world . And make no bones telling us truth.

    4th Aug 2015
    7:19pm
    micky, micky, will you ever learn that hatred only will result in clouding your brains, sorry to say but I am starting to think you might be a stubby short in a six pack, by stating that the CARBON TAX, introduced by your beloved labor party when in government last and let us hope it be a long time before the people of Australia elect them again, after all they left Australia with a debt never seen before in this great country of ours and my children's grand children will still be paying off in their lifetime, did not increase the price of electricity and you reckon I got dementia!!!!!!!
    as for those $ 7000.00 batteries, it takes at least 2 days of sunshine to get one hour of use out of them, next time you come up with your suggestions, please give us the full facts, it is so easy' just ask mr. google!!!!!!!!!!!!
    MICK
    5th Aug 2015
    8:07am
    The "hatred" you mention belongs to the liberal party trolls who post on this site.
    You continue on with all the fairytale items which have been discussed before:
    1. The debt - GFC mate. GFC mate. And incase you are a slow learner....GFC mate. Look it up. No Costello sitting in his hammock during the GFC. No unemployment in Australia either. Your family were thrown on the unemployment scrapheap either. So stop being a hypocrite! You can't have it both ways!
    2. Carbon Tax - Yeah right. Repeal of this was a pay back to the coal industry for getting elected. Taxpayers now have to put in $8 BILLION A YEAR extra. Great policy. And to add insult to to injury all the "jobs" which Abbott talked about are slowly disappearing anyway....a whole pile of coalmines closed in Queensland last year!
    3. Solar batteries - A whole pile of more crap from you.

    Your post is a whole pile of misleading nonsense meant to mislead. That is what paid trolls do. In the meantime, as you take your weekly 30 pieces of silver, the future of the nation and humanity itself is being sold out. What I hate is bastards who post their vile dishonest crap. Just like words out of a politician's mouth your 'information' is worthless.

    5th Aug 2015
    4:54pm
    micky, micky, go and tell your fairies in your backyard to turn their lights off and you can let us know how much you saved on your electricity bill.
    particolor
    5th Aug 2015
    5:03pm
    And the lights always out in Massertwoshirts ..
    And Massertwoshirts is one place I have been ... :-)