A threat to our nation’s security

Admiral Chris Barrie believes climate change may pose a threat to national security.

A threat to our nation’s security

Whether or not you believe that climate change is an actual a threat to the future of the planet, our former Defence Force Chief Admiral Chris Barrie believes it may also be a threat to national security.

The former Defence Force Chief has even co-authored a paper, Be Prepared: Climate Change, Security and Australia’s Defence Force in which he discusses his theory.

His report describes how natural disasters, such as food shortages, floods, famine and fire, occur as a result of climate change, which, in turn, displaces people who then become desperate and create conflict.

“Believe you me, when people are hungry, they will do anything,” said Admiral Barrie.

Barrie’s co-writer Professor Will Steffen believes that the upheaval in the Middle East, known as the Arab Spring, was caused, in part, by long-term drought.

“Food prices rocketed up, people in the Middle East couldn’t afford it, and that was a contributing factor to the Arab Spring,” he said.

Professor Steffen says that we need to prepare for climate change now so we can avoid having to “clean up the mess later”, and Admiral Barrie feels that the new Prime Minister will take climate change a little more seriously than his predecessor.

“I’ve shared panels with the Prime Minister on national security issues, I know that his antennae are tuned to these kinds of things,” said Admiral Barrie. “No-one is asking them to say it’s the number-one priority at all, but it’s among those things they need to think about.”

Read more at www.sbs.com.au

What do you think? Had it ever occurred to you that climate change played such a significant role in the problems in the Middle East? Do you think that Mr Turnbull will treat climate change more seriously than Mr Abbott?





    COMMENTS

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    Gilbert
    25th Sep 2015
    10:11am
    Swap food for oil
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    11:55am
    Coal?
    JAID
    25th Sep 2015
    4:42pm
    Love it Gilbert

    25th Sep 2015
    10:35am
    In my studies of terrorism/counter-terrorism, issues such as this that can create movements of people within an area and create the issues of homelessness and poverty (perhaps our government should look at this internally), are viewed in the context that they may create a national security threat. Factors that may come into this are a need for Lebensraum (sic) for people displaced by, for example, rising waters, those savagely disadvantaged economically in several ways, disaffection with the advanced societies that are causing the alleged situation, and the perception that those nations are not doing enough to help those injured by their actions. Even the loss of access to resources is a national security issue.

    'National security' is a very holistic issue, covering many areas of interaction, socially and economically.

    So, in a sense, and with the proviso that you actually accept the issue of climate change etc as being valid, it is fair to consider it as a potential national security threat.

    What is more important is that the PERCEPTION that climate changed causes all the problems in a region that it is claimed will be caused - a perception generated by the media and by argument over the realities or otherwise of climate change -is the primary mover to any action by those who feel they may be affected.

    Will Mal take it more seriously than Tones? On the surface anyway, and only in as far as there is a perception of genuine threat.

    Climate has definitely changed down here - it's still Winter..... days of icy winds and grey skies.. and only a couple of hours from Cambra - Heart Of The Nation.
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    10:36am
    ** I like to make my comment before reading the issue entirely - I see Admiral Barrie et al agree with my (general) views.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    11:58am
    The reason why the coal funded trolls can twist the climate argument so well is that climate, just like the stock market, does not have a linear movement. Whilst the long term trend might be up or down people are told that a year which does not conform means that the model is wrong. Nothing is further from the truth.
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    2:45pm
    So are we discussing a trend upwards of downwards or just remaining static? I've read arguments on both sides and so far am not persuaded, especially given the amount of volcanic activity recently.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    6:02pm
    The trend is up.
    superboy
    25th Sep 2015
    11:35am
    First it was Global Warming and then it was Climate Change. Next it will be Global Cooling although that has now been included in the new name.
    The climate has been shown to be variable throughout the ages with weather patterns changing at will. The do gooders will always be looking for something to bleat about and get their names in the headlines. "Prof" Tim Flannery did this country no good with his rantings.
    The El 'Whatever' effect is only the universe changing very slightly and we have no control over that.
    I hope that the new PM will follow the line of last PM in keeping the soothsayers at bay.
    Viv
    25th Sep 2015
    11:39am
    I'm with you superboy!
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    12:04pm
    Read my post above. If you get a hot series of days in the middle of winter does it mean winter is over? If you get a cold series of days in summer does it mean summer is over?
    The long term climate TREND is a heating planet:
    1. CO2 is at a half million year high. Much higher than anything ever!
    2. the ice belt around Greenland is gone.
    3. whilst ice in the arctic comes and goes the thickness of the ice shelf has been decreasing for decades.
    4. climate is experiencing some wild swings.....which older people will understand has differed from the long term model.

    Your post flies in the face of the facts superboy. Its easy to do the coal industry thing and dismiss anybody who puts the facts down as a crank but the facts are the facts are the facts. Whilst climate is not exactly an exact science it is improving as computing power grows. Think about weather forecasts in the past and now. They are rarely wrong. You are!
    jackyd
    25th Sep 2015
    2:36pm
    Well professor Mick, my readings tell me that there was four times the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere during the time of the dinosaurs. The planet has experienced many ice age and melting events including that of 14000 years ago that separated Tasmania from the mainland. Australia emits just 1.4% of the world emissions and what ever we do will make no difference except put our power prices up and 4 billion Asians don't give a stuff as indicated by the recent Indonesian forest fires with the smoke haze reaching well into S E Asia adding to the already existing Asian Cloud.
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    2:51pm
    Yes the Indonesian burning of Orang Utan habitat, that simultaneously leads to complaints from Our Lady In KL about smoke.... contribute a hell of a lot into the atmosphere. A long term dispute down here has been over burning off of native forest for reason such as 'it needs it occasionally' - in which case why not let it run its natural course instead of burning wildlife alive?

    I've said for ages that if the government was serious about CO2 into the atmosphere, they wouldn't be pumping it willy-nilly up there six months of the year in places far away from built-up areas.

    On top of that, the rise in power costs has lead to an increasing number of home fires... how now cut emissions when by forcing up power costs to reduce emissions from power stations, you only succeed in compelling little old ladies to warm themselves by an open fire or with a firebox?

    Same as above - governments are simply not serious about this... meaning it either doesn't exist or they just don't care as long as they can turn a buck directly or indirectly.
    heyyybob
    25th Sep 2015
    2:57pm
    Bottom line .......there are now way too many people s....ting on their own doorstep and we will suffer the consequences until we pull our collective noggins out of the bluddi sand and face the future NOW :( "Iss imples, yes"??
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    6:06pm
    jackyd: look at the CO2 graph for the last 650,000 years.

    http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    So much for your argument. You need to read more!
    Luchar
    25th Sep 2015
    10:24pm
    mick,
    a pity that your reference to Greenland only covers the more recent years of its History and Geography. In your schoolboy History lessons you would have learnt that Greenland was believed to have been first settled by a group of settlers from Iceland about 985 AD (Remember learning about the Viking, Eric the Red?). The settlement grew and lasted until the 1400s when it died out due to the worsening of what was already a harsh climate. (Not Global Cooling, surely!!!)

    Colonisation began again in 1721. Until you can satisfactorily explain what it was that caused the warming of Greenland prior to the 1400s, sufficient to make it habitable, then the current situation you describe for Greenland seems to me to be nothing more than an example of a cyclical climatic change, exactly the type of change that has been occurring since the beginning of time.
    MICK
    26th Sep 2015
    8:18am
    It appears that your "schoolboy" experience missed logic and EVIDENCE. The NASA examination of CO2 levels for the last 650,000 is compelling and the more recent measurement of the polar cap thickness reinforces what is happening.
    By all means cherry pick. That is what the coal industry does.
    bookwyrm
    26th Sep 2015
    11:00pm
    The Himalayas, the‘Third Pole‘, are also melting. This and rising sea levels places incredible amounts of people in India and Bangladesh at risk of being climate refugees. The science and evidence are staring us in the face but we have some of the stupidest right wing politicians ruling over us. Abbott did away with the position of Science Minister, says it all really!
    brainstraina
    27th Sep 2015
    1:45am
    Superboy, I somewhat agree with you.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    11:55am
    Saw that recently. Sadly digging up coal is more important than making the planet sustainable. This has been the business model for centuries and the national traitors in big business who behave this way never have a case to answer. And when the planet becomes an almost uninhabitable tip with people killing each other for a cup of rice then those who did this will be dead and gone and get off Scott free......as they always do.
    Younger people are tuning in on this and do not want a degraded future. Lets hope that some fresh wisdom can overcome corrupt disregard for that which we all need to survive.
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    12:07pm
    What a load of bloody rubbish you lefties haven"t a clue.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    12:23pm
    Spoken like e true right wing troll. A bit hard for you to call me a "leftie" when I never vote for the other side!
    All that I have written above is factual. What you have written is the normal brain dead troll comment.
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    2:53pm
    Hunger Games, Mick - the elite will live in Capital City - the rest will struggle for a cup of rice.... and any attempt to get into Capital City for a share will be beaten back by tanks in Tianenmen Square..... laugh not - the parallel is right there....
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    3:01pm
    MIck that is the lefts view I am afraid and I thought you where a union man
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    6:09pm
    Yeah right........Frank.
    Its all well and good making a "leftie" comment but YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE. Trolls do it all the time.
    Adrianus
    27th Sep 2015
    9:31am
    robbo, I think there are a couple of posters who try to frighten us with their unfounded predictions of mass destruction brought about by people going to work. If they can pin it on the government or big business they will. It may not make sense to anyone else but that's ok, it keeps them amused.
    Supernan
    25th Sep 2015
    12:54pm
    Global warming & Climate change are exactly the same thing ! Heat powers the weather. More heat, more power. So stronger cyclones, more violent storms, heavier rain, floods & snow, hotter weather & longer droughts.

    Our local climate has changed. Cyclone going inland furthur, & traveling inside the coast. Violent unpredicted storms - the worst ever. Our roofer he'd never seen the like ! 90 roofs to fix & not from wind or lightning - purely from extreme rainfall.

    Bushfires never threaten our area, now they do. Native trees are from sudden extremes. Summer temp for a week in mid winter. Mid winter night temps in spring.

    Last few years saw worst floods ever in Uk & NZ & parts of Qld like Grantham & here. How can any one not notice these things.

    Unbelievable that people ignore climate scientists, marine biologists, oceanographers, meterologists, statisticians, biologists ! ! Yes of course there was extreme weather changes in past earth history. But were prior to mankind arriving. Whole species died from it, landscapes changed. Yet even these changes did not happen as fast as the current climate change.
    Luchar
    25th Sep 2015
    6:43pm
    Supernan, Global Warming and Climate Change only became "the same thing" when the alarmists suddenly discovered that the globe was not warming - has not done so for some twenty years. Since this scaremongering was not working, so "climate change" became the "global warming".

    Prof. Flannery warned us in 2007 that our dams were going to run out of water by 2010; that the rivers would never run again; that any rain that did fall would be absorbed by the dry earth. That was during a period of drought when our dams were at about 40% capacity. By 2013 our dams were at 85%. They now have 95% capacity. Some states responded to the alarmists by constructing desalination plants. They now cost some $500,000 each annually to maintain and have yet to produce a single litre of water. Flannery, together with then Climate Change Minister, Greg Combet, were so concerned about the rising sea levels of which they warned us, that they went off and bought themselves waterfront cottages.

    Predictions back then were that the polr ice caps would disappear and that the polar bears would soon become extinct - they didn't and they haven't. We were supposed to contribute to a fund that would somehow save the people of the Maldives and some Pacific Islands from disappearing under the risin g sea levels. That concern seems to have passed as the Maldives are investing in a much larger airport to cater fro the increase in tourism they are experiencing. The Pacific Islands which were supposed to disappear beneath the sea are experiencing increases in population, rather than the decrease one would expect if the land was, in fact, disappearing beneath the sea and the population sought refuge elsewhere.

    As others have pointed out previously, Australia contributes 1.4% of the 3% of the total Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere attributable to man. Carbon Dioxide makes up 0.04% of the total atmosphere. If Australia were to cut its total Carbon Dioxide emissions tomorrow, this works out at 0.000000168% of the total Carbon Dioxide in the world's atmosphere.

    Yet how the alarmists rejoiced when Obama announced that China had agreed to cap its emissions in 2030, but in the meantime would continue to increase its emissions each year by an amount at least equal to Australia's current total emissions.

    Meanwhile the looney left would have Australia relying on the grossly more expensive and unreliable solar energy and wind turbines while we export our coal to India and China to assist them reduce the massive poverty in those countries.

    Go figure!!!

    Supernan also mentions that her area experiences bushfires but had not done so previously. I also live in what is regarded as a bushfire-prone area. We had bushfires over our home in 1957, 1968 and 1977. However, we have not had one since. Using your rule of thumb measure, this must mean that the climate in our area has changed for the better - but I will still take the necessary precautions in case you are wrong.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    8:51pm
    The planet is warming. Statistics are available. It is also well understood that the last 2 summers have both been the hottest on record. They keep tumbling.

    Flannery made the same mistake as Bob Hawke did with his ill-fated "no child will live in poverty........" statement. Both sea levels and temperatures are rising. Just not as fast as the original models forecast.

    The polar ice caps are still there but the thickness of the ice has decreased. Greenland used to be surrounded and covered by ice. Now gone. And you are right about civilisations on the Maldives and low lying islands. There are already tides which cause water to swamp them. They will be gone. When, not if.

    So because Australia is a small player we should pollute like the clappers and justify this to the rest of the world...and wonder why nobody wants to start.

    The rest identifies you Luchar: A COAL FUNDED TROLL!!!! For your information (as if you do not know) Germany will be coal free in 10 years time and other countries are following (not Australia).

    As for solar being vastly more expensive than coal I am in uproarious laughter. WHAT A LIE. Solar is already CHEAPER THAN COAL. That is why this coal industry funded government has tried to eradicate renewables. Queensland and South Australia were producing 25% of their power from solar. Can't have that can we? And then lets add in the cost of soon to be replaced generators and the $8 billion a year taxpayers have to put in with the repeal of the Carbon Tax.

    So "lefties" are the problem are they? I would suggest that the trolls who prostitute themselves to the coal industry and write the above sort of dishonest fiction are the problem. I can see we have our contingent going at it here. Disgraceful people who dishonour everything that the word 'Australian' stands for.
    Luchar
    25th Sep 2015
    10:06pm
    So, Mick, Australia now "pollutes like the clappers", producing as it does 0.000000168% of the atmosphere's Carbon Dioxide? Further, if, as you claim, solar energy is cheaper than coal, why is it that there has not been a rush for homes to install solar energy now that the government subsidies are no longer available? And why is it necessary for the government to be paying out enormous sums in subsidies for those countries installing all of the wind farms across our country? I also see, mick, that your limited vocabulary still has you calling everyone who disagrees with you a "troll".
    Crazy Horse
    25th Sep 2015
    10:19pm
    In the recent Canning by election one of the interestimg statistics mentioned frequently by candidates of all political persuasions was that over half of the residences in Canning are solar powered.

    If you think that's high wait until the new batteries from Tesla and others just hitting the market have been around for a few years.
    MICK
    26th Sep 2015
    8:22am
    Good one Crazy Horse.

    Luchar: you again are cherry picking. The facts are that Australia is a small player in the world because we have such a low population. We ARE polluting like the clappers on a per capita basis! The costs of infrastructure in the countries you mention would be no more than building a coal fired generator. Funny how the you seem to miss that point.
    Adrianus
    27th Sep 2015
    9:34am
    mick , so now "We ARE polluting like the clappers on a per capita basis!" ???
    Tom Tank
    25th Sep 2015
    12:57pm
    A look at the overall history of the World, the whole World not just the UK and Europe, is essentially one of mass migrations over time from regions of disadvantage, famine, lack of water etc, to areas which fulfil the needs.
    Those on the move have suffered hard times and so have generally be tougher and highly motivated to achieve improvement.
    Admiral Barrie therefore is not stating something new but just a basic fact of life. A very good example is the flood of economic refugees into Australia after WW2. The fact that the Australian government assisted in their travel does not take away the fact that those were refugees seeking a better life.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    8:54pm
    True but until the end of the Vietnam war these people were immigrants who were needed and gratefully accepted.
    Crazy Horse
    25th Sep 2015
    11:28pm
    They are still needed and gratefully accepted by most of us.
    Tom Tank
    26th Sep 2015
    3:43pm
    Mick and Crazy Horse you both missed the point I was trying to make, obviously not very well.
    The history of the world, when looked at in the long term is one of the movement of people because of their need for survival. Their original "country" could no longer support them so they moved. Sometimes by conquest, the Mongols, the Huns, the Saxons and sometimes not by conquest but by pushing their way into another area.
    This movement continues today and there really is no reason to think it will ever stop.
    The modern world is such however that communications show people living in real poverty that other countries might provide a better life. Can you seriously blame them for not wanting their share of that?
    brainstraina
    27th Sep 2015
    12:19am
    Tom Tank -- you mention "the flood of economic refugees after World War 2".
    It sounds like they broke down the doors which was not at all the case. Our government was almost pleading for them to come here. Their arrival was totally legal.
    As 'displaced persons' - sure, they could not return to their home countries; so they waited for 'invitations'.

    As for CLIMATE CHANGE; the climate has been changing since time began. Yes, I've heard that the past two Summers have been the warmest on record; but that has to be in some selected areas (perhaps in the cities.)
    The Victorian region in which I reside had it's last 'hot' Summer at the end of 2009 and since then, they have been quite mild with perhaps 6 or 7 scattered really hot days. During each of the past 5 Summers, comments were frequently made regarding non-use of air-cons.

    Sen.Cit.84 - I hope you don't take offence at the 'Rantings of mick'. I did not read the article you mention, however; I did hear it being talked about.
    Tom Tank
    28th Sep 2015
    4:00pm
    The point I was trying to make was that the movement of masses of people is not new. In the case of post war refugees coming to Australia yes they were welcome, I know I was one of them, but they were still refugees in search of a better life.
    The point is trying to stop these mass migrations is like trying to stop the tide coming in, as that Danish King in England is famous for proving to his nobles.
    Climate change is a bit of a Furphy in the sense that our climate has never been stationary. The question is whether humans are affecting the natural cycles of our climate?
    Sen.Cit.90
    25th Sep 2015
    1:47pm
    Hi,
    Some time ago I read an article on climate change. It considered the cause was a slight extra tilt of the world's axis. To me, this made more sense than other claims when we read of the climate changes to the other sides of the world!! Has anyone else read this article?
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    2:04pm
    Who wrote it? Fossil fuel funded scientists?
    Got a link?
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    3:04pm
    Sen Cit 84 there is a bloke named Al Gore who has made a fortune conning theses idiots that climate warming by every other form is true.
    Sen.Cit.90
    25th Sep 2015
    3:25pm
    Mick,
    Here is an article on the subject of earth tilt, I still cannot remember the scientist claiming (with facts and figures) the slight tilt that has occurred.
    http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/seasons/en/

    Robbo
    B/S
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    6:13pm
    The only BS are your post robbo. Have a discussion. Put forward some compelling arguments. That's right.....all you can do is make offensive comments which are truly BS!
    Anonymous
    26th Sep 2015
    10:11am
    You are a proper dickhead Mick and we don"t need people like you in this country go home .
    bookwyrm
    26th Sep 2015
    11:06pm
    What a stupid comment, robbo. It‘s Pauline Hanson in disguise! She of no brain cells what so ever.
    Anonymous
    27th Sep 2015
    2:25am
    Suck you in another wog
    Saalbach
    29th Sep 2015
    12:42pm
    Please Robbo, stop posting on this site - some of us want a sensible discussion and exchange of good ideas. OK you are scared of global warming, we can accept that, but some of us realize it is happening and want to do something to solve it. Just sit back and let us get on with it - after all, you will benefit too!
    heyyybob
    25th Sep 2015
    2:26pm
    'NOT a number one priority' ?? Are some people really going to wait until it smacks them in the mouth ?? Then it WILL BE TOO LATE to do anything to change our fate :( Poor Space- ship Earth we REALLY aren't looking after you, are we ? You would think we had a couple of spare ones stashed somewhere :D
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    6:13pm
    That's how it normally pans out.
    Mike Omment
    25th Sep 2015
    3:00pm
    You really are an a###hole arnt you mick
    Sen.Cit.90
    25th Sep 2015
    3:07pm
    Hi Mike,
    You are correct his comments bear this out.
    Sundays
    25th Sep 2015
    3:19pm
    Why make personal attacks because someone has a different view from you which is backed up by facts. This is not the forum. Once upon a time, people thought the Earth was flat, it was their strongly held belief despite the facts!
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    6:15pm
    Small minded people normally behave in this manner. Sadly low intelligence is what it is.
    brainstraina
    27th Sep 2015
    1:17am
    Hey Mike Omment -- You got that in one!!
    Sadly, there are those with a rather feeble grasp on English vocabulary and are lost for words when a differing viewpoint or observation is posted.
    Perhaps it's that lack of decent vocabulary which makes an interesting debate into an unpleasant experience.
    I wonder why Bookwyrm believes Pauline Hanson has 'no brain cells'. Perhaps she voiced her views!!
    nena
    25th Sep 2015
    3:58pm
    Many experts, such as scientists, are stupid and ignorant (or pretend to be). The only way to slow down or stop altogether a global catastrophe is, yes, slowing down consumerism. Forget about GROUTH and please, stop procreation. Just a few of us on this planet could survive with dignity if every one forget about becoming rich of material items and focus on humanity instead.
    Anonymous
    25th Sep 2015
    5:16pm
    Agree with you nena the muslims are breeding ten fold so they can get on social security, stop this breeding and we will save heaps some are getting up to $1000 per week due to the large families and all of their wives.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    6:17pm
    So who are some of the posters here?
    Sundays
    25th Sep 2015
    7:02pm
    Let's not forget the young Aussie girls whose financial plan is to have another baby, to get baby bonus and stay on Welfare. Really!! Do we need these stereotypes. But yes, we could feed the whole planet if we share resources equally, but will newer happen.
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    9:06pm
    Who are you Sundays? So WHO is the webmaster?
    Crazy Horse
    25th Sep 2015
    11:33pm
    What a disgraceful bigotted remark Jannie I'll remeber to tell that to my female muslim dentist so she can passit on to her sister who is a doctor.
    Sundays
    26th Sep 2015
    7:44am
    A Granny with a social conscience Mick
    bookwyrm
    26th Sep 2015
    11:08pm
    Pauline, is that you? Please explain?
    Adrianus
    27th Sep 2015
    9:41am
    I have not thought about GROUTH and procreation for some time now. :((
    JAID
    25th Sep 2015
    4:42pm
    I cannot look at the weather and infer human induced and negative change. I do not have the science behind me to support that inference. Others may and if you look beyond the hype certainly think they do.

    I can look at waste and ask why? Why? In the face of all life beyond us why would anybody waste anthing which need not be wasted? It is simply a matter of respect. A respect that can come of sufficient wonder.

    Measures abound which reinforce power, cost against competitiveness, constrain liberty but individually held wonder and the respect that comes of it alone would radically reduce the cost of our extravagance.

    Chop down a tree to fire a hearth you are not even near, leave a light on or heat a room when a jumper would do just as well, squander oil, why? Where is the respect of others and everything else?
    Saalbach
    29th Sep 2015
    12:37pm
    Well said!

    25th Sep 2015
    5:12pm
    This is the reason the Chinese are buying our land to produce food for their billions, before long all of the produce grown on the Chinese properties will be sent back to China. They are also bringing in their own workers to do the farming, why is our government allowing this take over of land and use their own labour??? I'm afraid it is already too late for Australia to wake up, Pauline you were right all along and everybody laughed at you including the numbnuts in the media meaning mainly Koshie on Sunrise.
    Too late the horse has bolted, so you do gooders re think letting more muslims into the country.
    Leebee
    25th Sep 2015
    6:50pm
    It's kinda scary that our leaders actually believe that the sky is falling!
    Climate change has been happening since the year dot, it will continue to change and it has nothing to do with emissions. I do wish that they would stop all the scaremongering and address the real issues!
    MICK
    25th Sep 2015
    8:58pm
    I thought that was the reason we employed scientists. You know....the ones who invented all the wonderful gadgets we use, including the computer you are sitting in front of.
    So lets all put our heads in the sand until it all goes away.
    Saalbach
    29th Sep 2015
    12:36pm
    It's actually kind of reassuring that some of our leaders believe it! Thanks to them, we may end up with some solutions that actually address the problem, and keep the planet going for a few years more. I suggest you look at the figures relating to emission levels of CO2 (Tim Flannery's new book "Atmosphere of hope" would be a good place to start) and at some of the recent attempts to deal with these, and you may then have the courage to accept there is a problem. While there are a lot of people you might consider to be scaremongers, it is reassuring that these people are getting on with fixing the real and present problem!
    Brissiegirl
    25th Sep 2015
    9:33pm
    Climate is always changing. When they first wanted to impress us, they called it "global warming" and when persons of intellect suggested there was manipulative logic behind the "change" from global warming to climate change, they were disgracefully put down and labelled as "deniers". Just because people do no agree should not mean they are not entitled to their opinion. Naming persons of opposing views "deniers" is rude and arrogant. The fact is that the world is over-populated. It cannot sustain any more people, yet by 2050 there will be another couple of billion hungry mouths. Less people = less resource consumption = less pollution. If the warmists really believe human pollution is causing a problem - here's the answer: too many people. They are compounding the pollution problem by inventing costly and unworkable "solutions" by attacking the symptoms instead of the cause. Yet I've heard no warmist, no politician, no UN climate change alarmist ever mention the real answer: natural attrition of the global population by birth control. Their problem solved with far less inconvenient truths but oh no they would rather wait until the planet has 20 billion people warring people on it before they wake up.
    Crazy Horse
    25th Sep 2015
    11:37pm
    as the Chinese have already done via a one child policy.
    MICK
    26th Sep 2015
    8:31am
    Climate may change but scientists have put forward compelling evidence which shows that you cannot dismiss what is currently happening as 'one of those things'. Read some of my posts above for a more detailed explanation.
    Of course the thing which is driving the planet over the edge is POPULATION. Whilst economic models depend on a growing population the planet cannot sustain this. It is a no brainer that we need to stop growth and probably reduce the people on the planet. That one NEVER gets a run in the media and is about as popular as a pork sausage at a bat mitzvah.
    JAID
    26th Sep 2015
    10:28am
    Too right. The earth may be able to support trillions of us sometime but not now. No sense of entitlement can support the overburden. No cultural norm will guarantee continuity while it overpoplulates.

    The problem is partially hidden in the climate change debate for those countries with populations running most out of control are among the lowest contributers to any human induced climate change. It is only a matter of time.

    Wars don't work very well, pestilence is being repulsed and mass slaughter doesnt have the right feel to it. Information and reward (perhaps with an embargo here and there) appear to offer the most likely success.
    Crazy Horse
    25th Sep 2015
    11:51pm
    Admiral Barrie was a fine CDF and strategist. Evry professional military officer knows that instability and deprivation breeds strategic risk The climate is changing. That is a fact that all of us Seniors know. The cause does not really matter for the purpose of this discussion. What matters is the effect.
    MICK
    26th Sep 2015
    8:32am
    Love the poster. A pity most people actually believe what they are told.
    bookwyrm
    26th Sep 2015
    10:51pm
    I had already come to this conclusion. In the future there will be hundreds of millions of climate refugees. Australia has no hope with our small population and lack of nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent. It will be a scramble for resources and China is already well set up, buying up resources and agricultural land, acting as bully boy in the South China Sea. Already one extremist Islamic nation has the bomb. Drought, floods, famine, whole countries like Bangladesh going under. It may well end in nuclear warfare if things get really out of hand.

    Unfortunately, Australia is already not in a good position. Leaders who deny climate change and are too mean to even give the tiny amount of climate refugees from our neighbour, Tuvalu, a home.
    bookwyrm
    26th Sep 2015
    11:16pm
    Yep, I foresee a nuclear free for all.e.g. any climate refugees heading towards countries like Russia will get it! Or maybe they will use a combination of biological, conventional and nuclear. The Russians are a lot of ruthless buggers with lots of ‘Lebensraum!‘.
    bookwyrm
    26th Sep 2015
    11:21pm
    You would think the fascists would at least want to save the Great Barrier Reef, 50% which has died already. But wait, remember who wanted to sand mine Fraser Island, dam the Franklin river etc etc.
    geomac
    27th Sep 2015
    12:47am
    Some people say we have had climate change all the time and nothing to worry about. Thats head in the sand thinking. Climate changes over thousands of years is not the same as human induced change over a couple of hundred years. People have been dying of diseases since time began yet in the last century most of those diseases have been eradicated or cured by humankind.
    If you deny man made climate change you may as well say medicine has not cured diseases and its just nature that stopped them.
    brainstraina
    27th Sep 2015
    1:43am
    mick,
    You have made a comment about 'most people' believe everything they hear or read. Your own strong opinions have risen from information read or heard.
    So, I don't quite understand how you have reached the conclusion that these 'most people' are of 'low intelligence'.
    Any knowledge that I have was imparted either by word of mouth or by the written word or by travel and life experience.
    Some school and university friends differ in their opinions on subjects which we studied together. There's nothing better than a good heated debate without unpleasantness to opposition.
    PlanB
    27th Sep 2015
    8:47am
    I hope this works
    http://www.earthporm.com/23-shocking-photos-reveal-bad-chinas-pollution-problem-become/

    This sort of thing is what we have to stop, how can we HOPE to save the planet if this is allowed to happen!?
    PlanB
    27th Sep 2015
    8:53am
    The climate has been changing since time began, it is protecting the planet we have to do STOP CHOPPING DOWN TREES and also look after the wild life and the other critters on the planet -- insects included -- as one relies on the other.
    We have had oil spills etc and other horrendous disrespect for this planet all for the almighty $$
    Wake the hell up world and start respecting.
    Adrianus
    27th Sep 2015
    9:50am
    When people have respect for each other, when they show respect for other living flora and fauna, THEN they will have more respect for the planet.
    nena
    27th Sep 2015
    12:02pm
    Jannie, so do the Australians and every other rich country. Our planet has already started the swallowing process to balance the environment... Stop Breeding!

    28th Sep 2015
    4:02pm
    Malcolm Turnbull is so much more aware of climate change..in due time I am sure he will be more active.....Sal
    Saalbach
    29th Sep 2015
    12:25pm
    I cannot for the life of me understand why so many people like Superboy and jackyd (and particularly Robbo) are so scared to acknowledge that the earth has issues with climate change. I recently had the good fortune to hear Prof Flannery speak about the progress that is being made around the world to address the issue of increased CO2 in the air. The evidence is clear that the levels have increased consistently over the last century, but recent scientific (not political) efforts have trialled ways to address this. The fact that an area had bushfires in 1958 etc but none for the last 20 years isn't proof that there is not a problem - how many fires did it have in the 50 years before 1958? If you don't believe in the problem, then shut up and let those who are concerned get on with fixing the problem. Don't you care at all for the future generations, or are you so consumed by your own petty issues that you have no thought for the future? Why are you so scared of the evidence?
    maxchugg
    1st Oct 2015
    8:08pm
    I am at a loss to understand how anyone could be privileged to have heard Tim
    Flannery speaking about the CO2 levels in the atmosphere or on any subject relating to climate, given his past performance.
    The list of Flannery's predictions which have failed massively is too long to list here, but is readily available on the internet. I would be interested to hear of even one prediction that this man has made which has been shown to be correct.
    As for CO2 levels in the atmosphere, the only effect will be to promote the growth of plants and increase our food stocks. Man made atmospheric pollution is insignificant compared with volcanic activity.
    The evidence is that there has been no global warming for over 17 years. The Arctic and Antarctic ice haven't melted and won't, the Maldives are still above water 6 years after they were predicted to have been drowned, the dams in Brisbane are practically full instead of being empty, as predicted, and so on.
    brainstraina
    1st Oct 2015
    9:22pm
    I too have seen Tim Flannery's 'predictions'. They have not come to pass.

    Members of the scientific community don't all agree with one another.
    Some of the posters here quote a scientist's name and believe his/her word to be Gospel. Other scientists will disagree with that Gospel.

    It seems that we, the lay individual, is left to decide whose Gospel is preferable and fits with our individual conclusions.
    maxchugg
    2nd Oct 2015
    12:07pm
    Brainstraina, Saalbach does make one sensible comment, look at the evidence.
    Flannery would have done better to guess than to rely upon the predictions made by "climate scientists" on the basis of their computer models. Instead of being 100% wrong, by guessing he would have been right around 50% of the time.
    Possibly the worst aspect of this scam is that any scientist who dares to dispute the truth of manmade global warming will immediately lose all credibility, some have even received death threats. Not only is the scam a ripoff on a grand scale, it is a threat to democracy. Suzuki appeared on Q&A, ignorantly did not know about the four main temperature recording datasets, yet still wanted people who deny climate change to be liable to prosecution. Saalbach from the tone of the post, would not disagree with that idea.
    Not Senile Yet!
    2nd Oct 2015
    6:16pm
    Oh Yeah!!!
    God Bless Malcolm......best back stabber since our First Lady PM and the Other Malcolm!!!! LOL!!!
    At least Malcolm can lie better and smile while he does it!!!!
    Better looking Puppet isn't he?????#
    But sadly for all the Sheep out there....same back rooms boys doing the same back room deals to suit their Party....not the Nation!!!
    Goodbye OZZ!!! Hello next Yankee State/Nation!!!!
    The only real threat that I can se to the Land Of OZZ is the Party Puppets that every bah! bah! Lamb voter keeps voting for!!!!!
    Vote them all out....Parties & their Party Puppets.....so Australia can stay Australia.....and not be sold off to American Policies!!!!
    As for the Food threat......Our Government sold out the Farmers a long time ago.....along with the Minerals and anything else that they could Flog!!!!!
    PlanB
    3rd Oct 2015
    7:39am
    Totally agree Not Senile Yet its about time we stood up to all these bastard pollies and demanded Aussie be saved from being the 51st state of the USA -- although me thinks a bit bloody late !


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