Higher GST will hit retirees

Plans to raise GST could cost the average family an extra $2915 per year.

Higher GST will hit retirees

In what is described to be in the “discovery phase”, the Federal Government is looking at several options to increase Goods and Services Tax (GST) to 15 per cent. According to The Sunday Telegraph, these options are:

1. Increase GST to 15 per cent with no exemptions.

2. Increase GST to 15 per cent on all goods and services except fresh food, which would be exempt. GST would also apply to currently exempt health and education services.

3. Increase GST to 15 per cent but not on fresh food, and certain health and education services, as per current exemptions.

4. Increase GST on all goods and services to 12.5 per cent.

 

The income raised from an increase in GST is estimated to be around $24.5 billion annually and would be used to fund tax cuts for middle-income earners, as well as to cover the shortfall in spending on education and health. There may also be a compensation fund for pensioners affected by the price increases. These increases are estimated by the National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling (NATSEM) to amount to $2915 annually for the average family. 

The GST increases and associated policy changes are likely to form the basis of the Government’s next federal election campaign, with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Treasurer Scott Morrison arguing that all options are on the table for consideration. Mr Morrison has previously highlighted that to provide cuts in income tax, there needs to be an increase in GST.  “When you have the average wage earner in this country about to move into the second-highest tax bracket at $80,000 next year, you’ve got a problem with the incentives in your tax system,” he said.

State premiers are divided on the increase to GST, with NSW Premier Mike Baird and his South Australian counterpart Jay Weatherall agreeing that is should be open to debate but Victoria’s Daniel Andrews believes that an increase in the Medicare levy would be more favourable.

Read more at Dailytelegraph.com.au

Opinion: Is raising GST the best way?

Apparently people are less likely to change their spending habits based on GST. But try telling that to retirees struggling to make ends meet.

Australia may have one of the lowest rates of consumption tax in the developed world, but for those living on a fixed income, even the smallest rise will be difficult to absorb.

Take health, for instance. According to the Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia’s (ASFA) Retirement Standard, a single retiree living a modest lifestyle is currently paying $84.20 per month on health insurance, chemist goods and out-of-pocket medical expenses, most of which are currently GST-free. If GST was extended to goods and services at 15 per cent and applied to this expected spend, it would then need to be $96.83 per month – that’s an extra $12.63 a retiree living a modest lifestyle will need to find just to cover their health costs.

Of course compensation for those on a pension and low incomes would need to be provided if a GST increase was implemented, but will it ever be enough? Given that those on a full single Age Pension are currently some $1100 per year shy of what ASFA recommends to live even a modest lifestyle, most of those who will require compensation to cover extra costs are already well below a decent income.

And let’s not forget the carbon tax compensation scheme – how many Australians felt adequately compensated for the rises associated with this tax?

If the money from a GST increase is indeed to cover the budget shortfall for health, then surely an increase in the Medicare Levy linked to income makes more sense? Given that high-income earners are already paying an additional two per cent for the Temporary Budget Repair Levy until 30 June 2017, then surely this could be extended, but redirected to health?

Is GST the best way to secure spending on health and education? Would you support a rise in GST? Or would you struggle financially if any of the mooted options were adopted? Can you think of a better way for the Government to raise more revenue?





    COMMENTS

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    PIXAPD
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:14am
    Raise it and be done with it...so many RORTERS on the DSP the Govt needs more tax.
    maelcolium
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:57am
    Sometimes someone on this blogs speaks utter nonsense and this is one of those times. Demonising DSP is such an ignorant statement it is repulsive. There's no answer to your statement because their is no valid argument.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:01am
    And what happens to the retirees who have already had their lifestyle demolished and are now, in many cases, worse off than full pensioners - some with incomes as low as $25,000 a year - unless they drain their savings?

    The government talks about ''incentives'', but what about incentives to save for retirement and old age? Those who did, but aren't multi-millionaires, are being punished harshly and having their lifestyle destroyed and their hopes for the future shattered. Pensioners will be compensated for a GST rise, no doubt, but self-funded retirees are left to struggle with higher living costs and the same fixed income, which, for many, will reduce by as much as $15000 a year in January 2017.
    PlanB
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:05am
    What a nasty thing to say PIXAPD,

    Easy to see YOU have no disability except you might be missing a heart !
    PIXAPD
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:05am
    Looks like some of you are NOT aware of the many cases where some on the DSP are really frauds, that is money that the honest person who is disabled is being robbed of. I said 'so many' rorters. Some of you live in a world where you think all the folks on the Earth are as honest as the day is long...wake up folks...there are ROTERS on welfare who have NO RIGHT and they need to be severed just like a surgeon severs a limb with gangrene.
    student
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:36am
    Pix, there are rorters in the welfare system and in the top 1% of income earners. Raising the GST hits everyone, those who can afford and those who can't afford a rise in cost of living. Is corporate Australia being let off tax wise again as lower and lowest income earners pay for what the Gov. needs/wants. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer
    particolor
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:54am
    I saw a Bloke with 2 Broken Legs putting the Dirt Tin out, But He needs the Broken Legs when He Hobbles into Centrelink !! :-) :-)
    ray from Bondi
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:19am
    and this is the result form the brainwashing that is done by our masters, keep promoting how those that cant make ends meet are dragging down everybody, lets not mention companies and corporations let alone the ultra rich who on paper can apply for low income support, bash those that have no voice that the way.
    wally
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:37am
    Raising the GST to 15 % in one "hit" would be too much for a lot of people to swallow at one time. This could be electoral suicide if such a "one hit" raise to 15% were to be brought in.

    I would suggest raising the GST by 1 % per year over a five year period and be capped at, for example 12% over two years based on the 2015 rate, or other appropriate increases as required.

    Of course the sticking point for pensioners would be what offsets would be made to compensate for the price increases brought about by the GST rise.
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:57am
    Pixapd
    I have looked after a young man on a DSP and he also works at Endeavour foundation. He rides his push bike to work and is a good person. Yes there may be 'rorters' and it is up to the system to sort them out - it is not someone I would ever wish to be. However, there are also 'rorters' in big business, many who do not want to pay their fair share of taxes to support the infrastructure that they also use. We should have a system that sorts them out too, but it doesn't seem to be anything the LNP wants to look at. They seek to discredit unions who support the worker, who also have 'rorters', but won't follow up the big ones - why is that in a democratic and supposedly egalitarian country such as ours?
    Campbell
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:03pm
    Pixy you seem to know a lot about rorting.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:38pm
    Perhaps you'd like to offer figures on the number of RORTERS on DSP......

    If they are indeed RORTERS - they are investigated and found out - so how are they still on DSP if they are RORTERS?

    Newspaper beatups and unsubstantiated pub wisdom does not indicate truth.

    Do you include the number of disabled Veterans in this list? Are they all rorters?
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:31pm
    TREBOR it's probably around the same amount as was found in the UK. About 30% of all recipients.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:12pm
    Some light reading for yez all......

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-05/jericho-disability-support-pension/5297540

    Got some neat graphs in it as well.

    I'll say it again - if there is this massive iceberg tip of DSP rorters, and Centrelink firstly makes it very hard to get on it, and then has regular checks etc - why are they still on DSP?

    Saying that xxxx DSP recipients 'have been investigated' is nonsense, since all recipients have regular checks, and all are bound to advise Colonel C'Link of changes in circumstances.

    'investigated' is just spin talk by the media to inflame the gullible.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:34pm
    Rorters? There are plenty of them in every social class - but the largest amount of loss sustained is through rorting by the rich via tax evasion. Then, of course, there is rorting by politicians. I'll bet the real cost of that is higher than the total cost of rorting the DSP!

    There are a few things those attacking Disability Pensioners don't consider. You knockers don't know what you don't know. What you think you see isn't necessarily what is. Many folk ARE disabled to the extent that work is impossible, yet they can, on many days, look just fine and perform quite challenging tasks competently. The issue is often that they have bad days often - days on which they really can't do much. Those days aren't scheduled. Try to hold down a job when you have to ring in sick an average of five days a month, with no idea when those days will fall or how long a given period of incapacity will last. Bosses aren't typically patient with folk who can't turn up for work when needed, no matter how genuine the reason.

    Then there is the issue of mental incapacity resulting from trauma, abuse, or simply being forced into soul-destroying work with no hope of improvement. Our system makes often absurd demands for evidenced qualifications from people who are very capable and intelligent, but have been educationally disadvantaged and have no hope of ever attaining those essential ''pieces of paper'' or letters after their name. Being locked into boring, mundane work can be crippling to a person with substantial ability.

    I know of people who slaved in dangerous jobs until an accident almost killed them. They recovered physically, but not mentally. Fear and haunting memories prevent them returning to work in the job they are trained and qualified for, and lack of qualifications prevents them switching professions. We may well say that they need to retrain, and many will, but they may need DSP in the interim.

    Trebor mentioned disabled Veterans. What about those crippled by abuse in institutions in childhood or by wrongful removal and separation from families and the deprivation of affection and proper care? Or people who have suffered loss of loved ones in serious work or motor vehicle accidents? Have any of you suffered severe depression? Do you understand mental illness?

    It's so easy to be judgmental. It's virtually impossible to ''walk a mile in their shoes'' - which is what you must do to know enough to condemn - but it's not at all hard to show empathy and compassion if you are a decent human being with a heart and a thinking brain. Sad to see that some here are just too wrapped up in their own self-righteousness and selfishness that they think they are God. Well, they must, mustn't they? Because He and He alone is qualified to judge others.

    BTW. We DO NOT need to raise taxes to pay aged or disability pensions. We have ample funds to meet those needs. And to the extent that we need more revenue, there is ample opportunity to raise it fairly and equitably by addressing tax rorts and unfair concessions that only advantage those well able to afford to pay more tax. Raising the GST is an attack on the less privileged, and yet another step toward a feudal society in which there is a minority of filthy rich and a majority of poor and the poor have no hope of ever improving their lot. Seems to me that's what the current Government is aiming for, and it's going the right way to achieving it.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:48pm
    TREBOR with respect, there may be some graphs as there usually is with Jericho's opinion pieces but we are talking about the drum!
    This piece does nothing to address PIX's claim that there may be many rorters in the system.
    What the graphs do show is a substantial increase in the percentage of the working age population are DSP recipients.
    Substantial meaning around 65% increase during the last 20 years. With more than 1,000 people being assessed for DSP each week to add to the existing 832,000 on DSP it would make sense to ask the question. Why? Another point worth noting is the number of recipients with mental illnesses has increased by about 90,000 over the past 10 years, to 256,380. Again, why such a surge in mental illness?
    My personal feeling is that I would like to see the DSP increased for those who really need it.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    7:58pm
    Yes, Frank, but how do the rorters get past the temple dogs and then stay out of their teeth with regular reviews? I recall an opinion that the medication Alan Bond was on at his trial actually contributed to his speaking, slurring and drooling problem - so it could well be that some access a tame psychiatrist or whatever to get recurring paper support for their claim, but they still have to get past the government medicos.

    DSP is the same as Aged with a few variations on such things as how much you can earn and so forth - are you recommending an increase in Aged pension as well?

    Just had fun watching A Current Affair, with a segment on taking two aged pensioners out and allowing them to spend Joe Hockey's (author of the coming book "Fifty Shades of Gravy") daily amount of pension.
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    9:25am
    Well we know in the case of immigration the temple dogs were being well fed by the new arrivals. One was caught by AFP and given a kennel with bars but the others left the country like Captain Emad.
    I just don't trust those numbers. I heard about the Fifty Shades of Gravy. A kind of My Fair Lady without the elocution lessons. DSP and Aged P go hand in hand don't they? What I don't agree with is the lobbying by the newly formed Australian Unemployment Union wanting a $150 increase in the dole.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    7:49pm
    No, they don't need more revenue to pay disability pensions to rorters. Read the proposal. They need more revenue to give $41,000 a year tax cuts to milllionaires.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:18pm
    FACT: Australia DOES NOT have a welfare problem. Politicians are lying to us. OECD figures show we spend far less on welfare than the OECD average - a highly affordable and very reasonable 18% of GDP.

    The real reason a GST hike is being touted is because this government wants to give a $41,000 tax cuts to folk earning $1 million + per annum. They want to cut taxes for the rich corporations that are already using every trick in the book to dodge. They want the poor to pay more so the rich can pay less. Nothing to do with funding welfare.
    Hawkeye
    6th Nov 2015
    8:43pm
    Pixapd
    What a ratbag comment to make.

    Using your logic, the whole population should be jailed because there are some criminals among us.

    Surely even you can see the stupidity which infests your thinking.
    Watto
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:36am
    Simple answer ....YES . It is the only fair way for all Australians .
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:59am
    That's rubbish - it is not fair (do the sums across the board) and it is certainly not tax reform.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:05am
    How is it fair to increase taxes for the poorest in the community? The well-off will get tax cuts. The poor will suffer increased living costs with no compensation because your can't cut taxes for those who don't earn enough to pay any.

    No doubt pensioners will get an increase, but self-funded retirees will not, and many of them will be ground into poverty, especially after the cruel cuts they will suffer in January 2017 which - even without GST increases - will leave many far worse off than pensioners and forced to drain away their savings just to survive.

    Fairness is a concept today's Australia cannot seem to understand at all. And as for ''incentives" -- well, the recent pension changes demonstrated that this government is determined to persecute those who save for old age. It's not much good giving people incentives to work harder and earn more by cutting income tax if you then take it all away from them when they reach retirement age.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:22pm
    Watto, I agree. GST is a fair system because the more you spend the more tax you pay.
    MITZY
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:26pm
    Its probably a waste of time talking about it until all of the States agree to it. Presently that is not the case.
    A rise in GST from 10 to 15% is just too much in one go if it does happen, for people on pensions and low incomes. And, then again, if they add more items or add that 5% extra to every single item just imagine paying 15% extra on your council rates each knowing full-well how Councils love to "cry poor mouth" and ask the local government to allow increases above the schedule amounts?!
    Anyhow as our Treasurer Morrison keeps telling us the government has a spending" problem and not a "revenue" problem, how about the government gets its house in order before it starts hitting the taxpayers of this nation with a raised GST?
    Gra
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:48pm
    Rubbish!! The fair way would be to make the multinationals pay the tax they should be instead of letting them take all their profits offshore. If the billions of dollars lost there were collected it would negate any need to raise the GST.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:35pm
    Gra, I think this government can whistle and dance at the same time. Raising the GST alone would only pay the interest for 18 months on Labor's debt!
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:39pm
    Frank and Watto, you obviously have no comprehension of basic math.

    ''The more you spend the more tax you pay''? Sure. But think again. The poor are compelled to spend 100% of their income just to exist. So they pay 15% of their total income in GST. They may not earn enough to pay any income tax at all - not even enough to buy the basic necessities - but they still pay a massive 15% of their income in tax!

    The rich only need to spend a small fraction of their income to get by, and can save, invest, or spend the rest overseas where GST doesn't apply. Therefore, they pay 15% GST on only a small portion of their income. But who gets the big income tax cuts to compensate for the GST increase? The well-paid, of course, because the poor don't earn enough to pay much income tax.

    So a GST increase is a huge attack on low income earners and transfers the bulk of the tax burden from high income earners to the poor. If that's fair, I'm a monkey's uncle!
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    7:35pm
    Rainey, let me test your math? If unions go on strike for a wage increase of say 10% at Arnott's, what effect will that have on the price of morning teas for us oldies? Considering that Arnott's wages costs are say 22% of total revenue. The second part to the question is how different is the 5% additional GST with tax cuts and compensation for those on low incomes and welfare?
    The carbon tax compensation is not needed now so it can be rebadged to a "GST Compensation" and increased accordingly?
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    7:51pm
    Frank, apparently you support the idea of taxing battlers more to fund $41,000 tax cuts to millionaires?

    ''Compensation'' doesn't extend to many who need it most. Self-funded retirees - for example - INCLUDING those who have just suffered a $14,000 a year income cut effective Jan 2017 and from that date on may have as little as $25,000 a year income - will NOT get compensation. They don't get a tax cut because they pay no tax. They don't get a pension rise because they don't get a pension.

    In any case, ''compensation'' never adequately compensates.
    Jen
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:38am
    It's definitely the only way the LNP can think of. Rip off Australians another $3,000+ per year but keep subsidising dirty, outdated coal mines, subsidising the super of the very wealthy, give billions to Transfield to incarcerate and abuse human beings and bomb the Middle East. Brainless, spineless and unforgivable.
    particolor
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:00am
    Bombing the ME is their New Way of Stopping The Boats !! :-(
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:39pm
    Ah - a kind of pro-active abortion..... good work, particolor.
    MICK
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:42am
    The poor are always hit hard and the coming increase in the GST is yet another tax on those who can afford it least. On top of that there is a proposed decrease in tax for rich Australians. This is outrageous as it simply continues the theme from this government: to transfer wealth from poor to rich.....led by offshore tax haven users like the Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull.
    As I keep advocating: vote for an Independent whose preferences do not flow to this government and end the game!
    happy
    2nd Nov 2015
    4:27pm
    Dear me Mick,
    it's always the same bleat. The poor the poor. Why are they poor? In many cases because they choose to live on welfare and never make a contribution to this country.
    The gst is fair. The richer you are the more you spend the more tax you pay. It all settles down.
    It is also the only Aussie tax the wealthy international travellers pay. Fair enough I say.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:46pm
    What ill-advised judgmental bullshit, happy!

    Oh, isn't it easy for the ''holier than though'' privileged to judge others and condemn? Ever had to struggle to care for a disabled child and pay massive medical and special care costs for a child who never grows up? Ever suffered a devastating illness that left you unable to work and crippled with medical costs for months on end? Do you have any idea at all of what PTSD does to one's ability to work and earn? Ever suffered the kind of trauma that results in PTSD? Ever suffered bipolar disorder or severe depression? What do you know of mental illness? Ever had a spouse run out on you taking every cent you had and leaving you in debt? Ever had to spend your life savings and more trying to find a child a spouse kidnapped?

    It goes on and on. There are a million reasons for poverty that have nothing to do with anyone CHOOSING to live on welfare, and many of the poor contributed far more to this country than anyone who doesn't qualify as ''poor''.

    The GST is NOT fair. It's an attack on those least able to pay for the benefit of the rich and privileged. It is an inequitable and cruel tax that persecutes the lowest income earners and those who can't earn, and only a privileged someone who has either no comprehension of economic facts or zero empathy or compassion would support the idea of increasing it.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:49pm
    By the way, Happy. Among those hardest hit by a GST increase would be the retirees who recently lost their entitlement to an aged pension and now are ''self-funded'', despite having less than $1 million to last them for the next maybe 40+ years and having to now struggle on an income of way less than the aged pension, or drain their savings.

    These people DID contribute substantially to the country. They worked hard and paid tax and saved for retirement. And they will be ground into poverty if recent changes to the taper rate are compounded by a GST increase.

    Stop attacking and insulting people and start educating yourself about the facts. You've got it 100% wrong.
    Young
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:45am
    The best way to go.Whatever any government does there are always some groups that don't like their decisions.Put your country first this time and let's get on with it.
    Wstaton
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:01am
    Yes the way to go by getting the rich to pay their fair percentage of tax and reduce super concessions,neg gearing, get rid of the 50% concession on capital gains and a host of other things.

    Cannot upset the big contributors can we. But increase the costs for the average battler. Easy
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:52pm
    Yes, Young, there will always be people who don't like decisions. Those who want fairness and equity hate the Liberals' recent decisions and this proposal. Of course, the rich and privileged will love it, because it transfers more money from the batters to the wealthy. Anyone who is putting the country first will oppose it strenuously, because it is socially destructive and further exacerbates the gross inequality that is now recognized as presenting a serious risk to the future of Australia.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    7:53pm
    Put your country first, Young? Deprive battlers of a couple of thousand a year in order to give an extra $41,000 a year in tax cuts to people earning $1 million a year or more. That's really putting your country first, isn't it?
    Patriot
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:45am
    GST (a flat tax regime) hits those "Most-in-Need" the hardest.
    For Instance $20.00 for somebody on a "Fixed income" of $400.00 per week means quite a substantial PENALTY. In other words, this (relatively small amount) CRAMPS the "LifeStyle-associated-with-Essentials".
    However, $200.00 for somebody on $2200.00 (after tax) is "merely just another annoying Bill-to-Pay". In other words, this DOES NOT CRAMP the "LifeStyle-associated-with-Essentials" but merely reduces the expenditure on "Trivial Crap".
    Capn Dan
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:24pm
    Well done with the figures and good case for those in need most. Thank you.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:40pm
    Yes Patriot, how can we stop the well paid from shopping at Crazy Clark's. Increasing that $1,000 per week tax paid should do the trick.
    Patriot
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:25pm
    Frank
    The "Utter Crap" you're sprouting does not even deserve a response!!!.

    All I can suggest that "Big Mal" finally must have picked up employing yourself after sacking your "Mate Tony"!!! Shame but expected
    Biggles
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:52am
    if the top wage earners paid the same tax as the rest of us and the big companies paid their share of tax we would not need to be changing the gst. The Govt is to scared to hurt its big backers
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:06am
    Very true - Malcolm's true colours will become obvious as he is constrained by his backers and the conservatives in his party. I despair we will never see true intelligent thinkers in politics as everyone uses it for their own agenda and if in the game long enough, will not have to worry about social issues again as they will be taken care of - don't talk about just those on welfare!
    CarolAT
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:54am
    The government cannot have it both ways, tax the poor but assist the wealthy to maintain their already over-inflated lifestyles. What the government fails to mention in stating that we have one of the lowest GST rates is that we also have one of the meanest pension schemes where anyone on a pension is well below the poverty line. Bring pensions into line with the OECD average and let's treat the elderly and disabled with respect instead of expecting them to carry the financial burden.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:08am
    Yes, but also a GST raise will hit self-funded retirees hard. Many of them will be worse off than pensioners when the recent changes kick in, in Jan. 2017. A GST raise is just a further attack on the aged and a further way of harshly punishing anyone who took the advice of past governments to plan and save for retirement.
    MITZY
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:44pm
    Agree we do have one of the lowest GST rates but we also have one of the highest costs of living and exorbitant prices on consumer goods and highest wages etc. I recall John Howard indicating at the time the GST was introduced that it would always remain at 10% because as wages and cost of living and goods increased, so would the government's intake of tax.
    Again, as I indicated before, all the States have to agree to any anticipated increase of GST from 10 to 15% and at present, this is not the case.
    And, can you believe the statement by Pixa... at the top of these posts, to denigrate only one section of our nation's people as a means for raising the GST? There are many many rorters of all sizes, shapes, etc. and the government and especially our Treasurer, Morrison, who has said we have a "spending" problem rather than a "revenue" problem should really work out the means to the prolem of the "spending" before he hits the national with more tax. Can you believe they keep telling us they are a low taxing government?
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:01pm
    Pay SFRs Aged Pension and then treat income above the same for tax as everyone else. If you work it out, Rainey, that would certainly help those SFRs who fall into or are close to falling into the trap of income less than pension. The big wheels might whine, but do I look like I care? They had it sweet for years just to generate that level of retirement income, so they can now pay their way in full.

    I did figures on this - there are two systems and I will (when time etc permit) go into those figures in full.

    Way I see it - pay everyone Aged Pension since it's already paid for, then on income above that they receive the Tax-Free Threshold, and then enter the tax regime, paying the same rates as everyone else. That means that a single could earn - either by super of SFR investment or by working while on Pension, around $40k pa and not pay tax (just roughly at this time - I will do the figures some time properly), and a couple a fair bit more. Even after that $40k is attained, the Income Tax paid would be minimal.

    Not a huge burden, and would only just begin to catch the big ones who've salted away millions with concessions and now receive millions or hundreds of thousands after all concessions.

    Nobody else would be affected adversely, and many would be affected positively, including SFRs.
    Sundays
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:10pm
    Yes Rainey, some self funded retirees may no longer get a part pension. Thank the Greens for helping the Govt push this through! However, you only have one life, so you can reduce some of your capital by spending it and thereby qualify for a part pension if that is what you want. Any changes to GST needs agreement from all states, won't happen just yet.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:01pm
    I haven't read this - posted without comment or bias:-

    http://www.challenger.com.au/group/Documents/Attachment_A_ChallengerInternationalComparisons.pdf
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:20pm
    Honestly, Sunday, have you thought about how dumb that reply is? Sure, an SFR can spend some capital to qualify for a pension. But successive governments have repeatedly urged people to SAVE for retirement. Now they are being forced to spend their savings to achieve a livable income! Many are faced with a choice of surviving on as little as $25,000 a year, or spending their savings quickly so they can draw a pension that ensures they have enough to live on. How does that support the objective of having people SAVE for old age? Making SFRs worse off than pensioners unless they drain their capital merely impoverishes the nation, creates anger and resentment, and provides a strong deterrent to younger folk to work and save. And although it MIGHT result in some short term savings, it WILL result in increased costs to support the aged in the medium to long term because far fewer people will be have the means to support themselves. Stupid policy by stupid people, supported by folk whose green-eyes are clouding their vision!
    Sundays
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:42pm
    Rainey, if you don't qualify for the Pension in 2017 it's because you own a home and if part of a couple have more than $823,000 in Assets. Why should you think that you are also entitled to a pension. I am a self funded retiree and I never expected the government to support me in my old age. We worked hard, and saved specifically so that we could have a comfortable retirement. The age pension should be for those in need! You sound very greedy
    Sundays
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:52pm
    PS, my response was based on what all the financial experts are advising their clients to do if they want a part pension and the discounts that go with it. Less people on the full pension benefits the country, and yes you may have to spend some capital, or become a starving millionaire.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    8:01pm
    Sunday, you are grossly ill-informed. Many people with $823,000 in assessable assets are getting minimal returns from them and in many cases they aren't salable because of economic downturn. People who saved for retirement SHOULD be better off than those who didn't. Forcing them to drain their savings is making them worse off than those who can draw full pensions and keep their savings intact.

    Effectively, what the new taper rates does is forces those who saved but couldn't achieve assets sufficient to return a living income to hand over their savings to the children of those who didn't save. Pensioners live off the taxpayer and pass any assets to their kids. SFRs with less than an adequate income from their assets live off their assets and taxpayers reap the rewards while their kids miss out. There is nothing fair or equitable in that, let alone anything economically sound. Experts have come out stating that it destroys incentive and will ultimately increase the cost of supporting older Australians. The taper rate changes are short term gain for long term pain. Anyone with a grasp of economics understands that.

    No, less people on the pension DOES NOT benefit the country. It means people will be less inclined to save for old age, because there is no benefit in doing so. It also means less consumption and therefore increased economic downturn and fewer jobs and less tax revenue, because those who are suffering loss are the people who spend.

    BTW. A coalition MP is now proposing to increase the GST to fund tax cuts of $41,000 a year to people earning more than $1 million a year. Is that also benefiting the country?
    maelcolium
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:59am
    What happened to superannuation taxes, CGT, negative gearing and corporate tax avoidance? These must be too hard. Easier to ratchet up the GST and bugger the consequences. Remember this at the polling booth.
    Jen
    2nd Nov 2015
    2:03pm
    We can't have that maelcolium, because it'll affect the wealthy. And this government is about protecting the well off and shifting every last cent from the poor to the rich. I'm including miners and corporations here, that get taxpayer's largesse. The LNP way is to create the great divide. The haves who enjoy the good life (the wealthy elite) and the have-nots who will slave for them. But yes, all bar the blinded, rusted on righties, will remember this at the polling booth.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    8:03pm
    Did you read the whole proposal? The increase is intended to help fund tax cuts of $41,000 a year to people earning more than $1 million a year. Got to look after the greedy rich! Bugger the rest of us, and who gives a damn for the economic health of the country?
    Old Silver Fox
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:00am
    Just a novel idea.... get the politicians to STOP SPENDING... then we won't have to increase the GST..!
    Wstaton
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:04am
    Maybe we should introduce a helicopter levy.
    KSS
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:08pm
    Perhaps we could start with stopping spending on the age pension payments?
    Old Silver Fox
    2nd Nov 2015
    7:39pm
    KSS,
    Don't think that would work... do you? The pollies want the extra tax so they can increase pork barreling. There are many examples of middle class welfare being handed to people who are not worthy recipients. This is just some of the spending that we could do without.
    particolor
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:11am
    Make it 20% on Everything and stop mucking around ! Save doing it after the Next Election whether we want it or Not !! :-(
    "There will be NO GST" !!...OK !
    "There will be NO Carbon TAX" !... Yeah Right ! :-(
    Etc.
    foodie
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:13am
    When will governments learn that the pubic purse is not endless.People are struggling to make ends meet.What about the self funded retirees who do the right thing and save for their retirement.How would they be compensated ???What about actually doing some true reform on the tax laws and get all companies to pay their fair share and abolish these off shore tax havens schemes.Lets get serious about the massive expenditure on welfare payments and the waste in government expenditure.True government should look internally on how they can save money before they even consider hitting the worn out public purse .GST is just another tax and be assured you wont be compensated for it and the poor old pensioner and self funded retiree will cop the cost !!!
    particolor
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:37am
    As per Prescribed Dosage ! :-(
    ozrog
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:17am
    Doesn't matter what we think they will do ut anyway.
    sidney70
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:35am
    You are quite right ozrog. I wonder when they are going to stop Poli
    Rorts. you watch they will give themselves another rise. Robin Hood in reverse. Rob the poor and give to the rich. It makes me sick. 50 % increase in GST is repulsive and unfair.
    particolor
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:39am
    What do You think I said Up There ? :-)
    Gwenevere
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:24am
    Thank you for your comments but the costs of health insurance and chemist bills do not equate to what I pay - $77.00 a fortnight for private cover, albeit with extras - plus 3 medically prescribed prescriptions (one not on the PBS) together with paracetamol to help with minor pain and stronger pain-killers after two bouts of major surgery - hip and soon knee, so more thought needs to be taken to get a more accurate price structure, I believe.
    Dot
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:35am
    Firstly cut back on all foreign aid, other countries can take care of themselves, cut out all the parent entitlements and pay endowment per child like it used to be back in the early days.
    No more welfare, housing or any assistance for refugees, cut out all monies to Human rights organizations, Lawyers representing all refugees.
    All Politicians cut out overseas travels and do business by video link.
    One could go on and on.
    particolor
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:41am
    Please Do !! :-) :-) You MISSED 3/4 of it !! :-)
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:04pm
    Dot I disagree with the idea about video links. It's hard to develop relationships over the phone. We need our people rolling on the front lawns, losing their pants at motels and getting caught in the early hours with ruffled hair at strip clubs, to show our human side.
    Giles
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:45am
    YES - higher GST is by far the best way, provided that those on very low incomes are compensated.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    8:04pm
    So, Giles, you favour taking more from battlers to give people earning $1 million a year or more a $41,000 tax cut? What's good about that, precisely? (Or are you one of the greedy rich who will benefit?)
    Travellersjoy
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:47am
    Absolutely not. It would constitute another abuse of power.

    They will do anything rather than raise money from people who have plenty of it.

    Another attempt to compel ordinary people, and worse, the poor, fund the tax relief given to the affluent.

    When will the Labor Party stand up for Australians?
    Idontforget
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:50am
    The Governments cry is that taxes have to be increased, mainly because of increased medical funding. If one takes that for granted, wouldn't a common sense decision be that the Medicare levy be increased to take care of this shortfall. But, of course, you can't expect Government to make a common sense decision.

    I suspect that the Government wants to increase the GST to pay for all sorts of things, not the least being Politicians lurks and perks and then have the opportunity after a year or two, to cry poor again and claim Medical costs have blown out and then increase the Medicare levy.

    A budget is a budget. If an increase in taxes is required for Medical costs, let it be from the part of the budget that has been set up to take care of medical costs, that being the Medicare Levy.
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:08pm
    You are right - our health system - while seriously needing some structural changes - is the most important system. It should be funded by Medicare and so paid for equitably. You are also right in how governments sneak things in and we always forgive them and they know it. Mick is right - scare them at the polls and they may be more respectful.
    Cassius
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:02am
    Don't know where you get "a single retiree living a modest lifestyle is currently paying $84.20 per month on health insurance, chemist goods and out-of-pocket medical expenses, most of which are currently GST-free.
    As a retired couple our health insurance alone is nearly $400 per month
    Oars
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:59pm
    You are right Cassius. You forgot to add that a drip who has splurged his/her money on the pokies or whatever, can demand to be looked after by our taxes, and call poor- the problem is that we still put up with these bludgers.
    Golden Oldie
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:16pm
    I recently changed my private health cover and made a substantial saving, but it is still more than $100 per month. This plus non prescription drugs for arthritis, muscle spasms, calcium and vitamin D takes my cost just for health greater than $200 per month, and I look forward to losing my part pension in 2017 when income from super and savings are less than the single pension. I can then pay full price for rates, utilities, car registration, etc. and cop the higher GST as well. Well done Liberals, you will have negated what I achieved and saved for during the last 30 years before I retired, and taken me back to my lifestyle in my 30s as a single parent and going without such luxuries as health insurance, washing machine repairs, no social lfe, no new clothes, no stockings, and no new appliances as I could not possibly pay off a hire purchase agreement.
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:29am
    Don't forget those who worked eighteen hour days, fought for the country, and suffered divorce, death of spouse, etc into their middle years and then found themselves sick, injured and unemployable.......

    I include many men and women in that group.

    How much are they worth?

    All those with only a pension are not people who splurged on pokies... many such splurged on their children and their upkeep and their future... with little to no reward for doing so.

    I'd say those who endured that kind of thing are entitled to double pension for their courage and steadfastness in adversity.
    rina1213
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:02am
    so the ones that have will be OK but the have nots will have to find extra money and where from? And I bet the darling Pollies will give themselves a pay rise in the near future.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:15pm
    The instant Tony's freeze expires - you can bet they'll make up in spades for that terrible loss.
    mogo51
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:03am
    Any increased taxes as not relished by the community. However, Australia has had a crash landing following the end of the 'mining boom' which of course is not totally correct. But there is a need for additional revenue.
    This tax catches all, including visitors, workers and regrettably all retirees whether sefl funded or pensioners. We can only hope they are adequately compensated.
    This has been needed now for sometime and it is up to a Government to try and right the ship.
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:11pm
    Why start another process for compensation? Why not say those in welfare don't pay the increased GST? Why not start true tax reform?
    MITZY
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:56pm
    Morrison says we have a "spending" problem not a "revenue" problem.
    Turnbull says we have "both".
    Things are no better than they were.
    All we have now is a windbag PM who needs to make his storylines shorter and who will eventually shoot himself in the foot because of the lengthy chatter and a Treasurer who talks in shorthand to cover up his short-comings. Next slogan? "Up The GST".
    Wstaton
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:04pm
    Right Kaz, Just raising the GST is not tax reform. Its just raising taxes.

    The only taxes this government want to reduce is that of the higher earners. this means that they pay more with the 5% increase on what they buy but probably get back more than what they pay in reduced income tax.

    Whereas those on lower incomes will also pay more GST but get back nothing with these income tax reductions.

    So who is worse off.

    and who is better off.
    KSS
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:12pm
    SO Kaz when two people are in a queue in a shop, both wanting to pay for their goods and only one of them is on welfare, how do you tell them apart when they both have a $10 note in their hand?
    Perhaps we put everyone on any sort of welfare on a welfare debit card then they won't have to pay GST?
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:43pm
    Good thinking KSS - apart from the Fascist aspect of controlling people spending their money.

    A card the says No GST is the better way to go. Simple swipe and Bob's Yer Uncle!
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:43pm
    Should we have any concerns about the cost to small business?
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:16pm
    Yes, we should, Frank. Small business is not a high priority in the eyes of government - only the big fish and how to help them swindle their way through our Holey Tax system.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    8:05pm
    Mogo, if there is a need for additional revenue, why is does the proposal include a $41,000 tax cut for people earning more than $1 million a year?
    Adrianus
    4th Nov 2015
    8:56pm
    That would include the Governor of the RBA. He earns over $1m. He's a Public Servant. Who creates these policies? By any chance would it be the Public Servants?
    bobby
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:16am
    We all should pay the increase in GST. After all, pensions are paid out of tax receipts. I think it is only fair.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:19pm
    bobby, that's one way of looking at it. Also, I think for those who are desperate for those rich people to pay more tax, the GST increase is a way of getting them to do just that. Not even mick could argue that a poor person spends more money than a rich person.
    Wstaton
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:11pm
    You fellows seem to forget that the lower paid have to spend virtually all their money in order to live and maintain a livable lifestyle.

    Whereas the rich only have to pay a measly portion of there money to exist the rest just goes on trivialities like gold ppalted toothbrushes etc.

    We also seem to forget that these riches have to come from somewhere and I am damn sure that it isn't derived as coming just from the rich people.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:24pm
    Pensions are paid for, by your same logic, from the tax receipts of the recipients over fifty odd years of work.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:05pm
    And what about those retirees on fixed, low incomes who don't qualify for a pension, Bobby? Oh, that's right! They should spend their precious savings just to exist, so that high income workers can get an income tax cut. After all, self-funded retirees worked hard and went without luxuries so that they could be poor in old age and give all their money to strangers who need it less than they do, didn't they?
    Koro
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:22am
    Here we go again!! High income earners complaining about reduction in childcare rebates etc etc etc - woe is me!! Again, the lower socio-economic people once again hit with survival needs costs while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
    Those poor multi-millionaires and high income people may just have to cut back on their overseas holidays and luxury outings again!
    When is our government going to look at caring for our hard working people and ensuring they can have healthy food on the table, good health care and education for their young ones! Maybe when this imbalance is addressed fairly then better education resulting in improved job opportunities may well reduce the welfare recipient level and re-introduce some pride and self-respect among the working class. Realise and accept that there are rorters in the system but there are also plenty of genuine cases that simply cannot work due to REAL health problems who are not able to get Disability support because they are not good enough actors and just miss out by a point or 2 in the so-called eligibility test administered by what must be the luck of the draw Public employees in being assessed and who have what qualifications in interpreting medical reports????. PLEASE - when can we get a good PM who really is capable and competent in running a managing party before Oz becomes just another 3rd world country. Good onya Rainey - someone has some brains!
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:05pm
    .. and for many a fair access to jobs and opportunity so that they can build a decent retirement package for themselves.

    How is the superannuation scheme to ever achieve its stated position of replacing pensions when so many have no superannuation through having no job?

    Maybe there are 832,000 vacancies for Ambassador to The United States.
    GrumpyR
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:26am
    Increasing the GST to 15 per cent is logical, provided the disadvantaged are adequately compensated.
    An increase in the Medicare Levy of 2% linked to income makes sense too.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:57am
    I agree Grumpy. 15% GST, plus 2% medicare levy and remove the WET!
    MITZY
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:00pm
    How much extra on that bottle of wine GrumpyR?
    Or is it a clean skin?
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:22pm
    There will be no compensation for many who need it most, Grumpy. But the proposal does include provision for a $41,000 a year tax cut for people earning over $1 million a year, so the poor old millionaires will enjoy plenty of compensation. Bugger everyone else!
    Eckles
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:32am
    How do you compensate those on part pension who in 2017 will be taken off the list because they are slightly over the new asset limit. If you increase the pension the compensation to this group is "0", if you offer a tax reduction or any sort of benefit via tax the result is still "0" as there is no income. For a couple who will lose some $500 pm + this is a huge impost, who else in the community is prepared to give up some 10%+ of their net income, and this is before the increase to the GST.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:43am
    These people that will lose the pension because of their assets in 2017 should not be one the pension now.
    KSS
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:30pm
    Eckles they could liquidate an asset!
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:10pm
    Absolutely right! After all, these hard workers scrimped and saved and went without luxuries to put money aside for old age just so that they could then live on less than the pension, continue to go without luxuries, and live off their meagre savings - so that strangers who are way better off than them can get a tax cut or a pension increase, right?

    How selfish of the SFR's to actually want to benefit from their earlier sacrifices to save! Really, how dare they object to being forced to gift the benefit of their earlier work and savings to others while they forfeit everything they struggled to achieve?
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:11pm
    Pay everyone the pension - tax income over and above the cutoff point for pension...

    That's $1896 pf for a single = $49,296 pa

    That's $2902 pf for a couple = $75,452 ps.

    If you get that much already, you can afford to pay tax on income above that, especially when you also include tax free threshold.

    Despite protestations to the contrary - there are not that many retiree couples getting around $100,000 pa in super, and currently there are many more well under that.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:15pm
    Same for a single receiving $67,00 or so pa - on an investment in a bank you would need 33 times that or nearly $2m to get that much interest, in a super fund copping 8%, you would need 12.5 times that - or around $900k salted away.

    If you could afford to salt away those sums, you really had a sweet ride along the way and should want for nothing, so this approach would not only benefit the majority, but would tend to 'catch' only the mega-hoarders of super, who again had even less need to have massive super due to an even sweeter ride.

    Of course that includes politicians as well - poor darlings - and I figure roughly that would go a long way towards resolving a revenue problem.
    LiveItUp
    3rd Nov 2015
    2:34pm
    Trebour on your figures even I would get the full pension and still pay no tax.

    Me thinks that is not fair either.
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:07pm
    Yes, but the idea is to catch the big fish who have had a sweet ride and then have used superannuation to garner a biincome in retirement, by using the tax concessions unfairly.

    he figures need massaging... nowhere near complete.

    It's Malbun Cup day and I'm tired.... later.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:25pm
    Clearly, Bonny doesn't think people who went without all their lives to save should be allowed to enjoy any reward for their effort. But I'll bet she's fully in favour of $41,000 tax cuts for people earning more than $1 million a year - funded by the sacrifice of pensioners, battlers, and the SFRs who went without for a lifetime in the obviously futile hope that they might enjoy a little comfort in old age.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:32am
    As a taxpayer, I don't see why I need to help somebody buy a car just because they work at the ABC or SBS. They should be paying for their own child care as well.
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:20pm
    What do you mean ABC or SBS? Are you saying they are poorly paid? Are you saying the child care rebate is enough to buy a car? Are you saying child care costs are too much? It was Abbott who wanted to give more to those with children. What ARE you saying?
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:26pm
    I'm saying PS which includes those at the ABC are getting too well paid. Why should they be able to salary package a new car or child care??? What are you saying???
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:34pm
    I wasn't saying anything, I was asking... Now I'm asking are you just looking at the ABC/SBS, because many people negotiate salary packages?
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:34pm
    I wasn't saying anything, I was asking... Now I'm asking are you just looking at the ABC/SBS, because many people negotiate salary packages?
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:29pm
    Kaz, the Public Sector remuneration is far beyond what the private sector gets. Yes sure some in the private sector do ok, but not all. My point is that we can cut costs rather than increase taxes. And a good place to start is the Public Service, which includes the ABC.
    Sundays
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:21pm
    I think you'll find Frank that a lower level public servant may earn more than some admin workers in the private sector, or bank employees. However, the CEOs and Executive team in the private sector earn much more (even millions) compared to any senior public servant, or even the PM. Many private sector employees can also salary sacrifice
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:56pm
    Sundays, that's the way it should be. The private sector should be well incentivised.
    Sundays
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:52pm
    Yes big incentive especially for Ceo who stuff up, yet walk away with large golden handshake
    Wstaton
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:56pm
    How does that work frank the only one according to all the above who is so called "incentivised" appears to be the CEOs.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:37pm
    Just roll with it and stop being envious about something you have neither the talent nor the willingness to pay the price for.
    Happy Jack
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:34am
    Can these people be trusted? can they be taken at their word? lets have a look at the form guide.
    At the last election the LNP said no change to pensions "DURING THIS TERM". In the last budget changes to the asset test were introduced to TAKE EFFECT 1JAN 2017 meaning that though changes in legislation have been made, changes in payments would not take effect during this term of Goverment. Well, wow and behold last week I receive a letter from Centrelink revealing that preserved amounts in defined benefit superannuation pensions will be, from 1 JAN 2016, included in the asset test for eligibility for a pension or part pension. In effect this letter is informing me that as from the 1 JAN 2016 I will no longer be in receipt of a part pension. You be the judge- is this a broken promise made prior to the last election?
    Now keeping this in mind can they really be trusted when they say pensioners and self funded retirees will be adequately compensated in the event of an increase in the GST ? Remember when Howard introduced the GST and state Governments pledged to abolish state taxes and other imposts- it didn't happen.
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:27pm
    Yes - Keatings GST was going to be instead of, not in addition to, various other taxes in order to simplify the system. By the time the LNP introduced the model, it was just another tax. I am yet to see a government remove a tax or attempt true tax reform. Increase the Medicare levy, increase income tax at the higher levels and close the loopholes.
    Rae
    4th Nov 2015
    9:06am
    Yes Jack and that non concessional amount that was previously discounted was after tax savings paid by you from your salary into superannuation.

    Some serious questions about the returns within the fund should be asked because they were dismal.

    The next step may very well be to count all savings coming out of accounts as income when it is withdrawn as it is exactly the same thing.

    I can't believe there hasn't been a court challenge yet.


    Defined benefit pensioners have no way to adjust as the meagre amount was surrendered.

    2nd Nov 2015
    11:35am
    Forget about raising the GST, why not just employ: the 'Buffet Rule'( min. 1% tax for all income earners )!

    Much fairer.
    LiveItUp
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:36am
    Much better to include the house in the assets test and give all those on welfare a card instead of putting the money into bank accounts.

    A higher GST will only increase the black economy but a card for welfare people will help stop this.
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:45pm
    I can't work you out Bonny, but I think you might be a snob and not have much compassion for others? Remember, "there but for the grace of God go I"
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:52pm
    I agree Bonny, the cost of welfare is out of control. It is costing $6,250 per person. That's every man woman and child.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:16pm
    Yep, continue the attack on the less privileged so the privileged can continue their greedy rorting and over-indulgence. Increase inequity until society is totally destroyed and civil war is inevitable. Don't ever stop for an instant to consider the reasons why progressive taxation and a welfare system were found to be necessary in the first place, and the very valid purpose they serve.

    More to the point, don't ever be guilty of acknowledging that the well-to-do make their money by exploiting the less privileged and taking a massively unfair share of national resources, without paying their share. And certainly don't ever demonstrate empathy, compassion, or respect for others. That would be totally out of character for both of you, Bonny and Frank.
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:32am
    Age of Entitlement is over unless you are part of the Entitled class.......
    LiveItUp
    3rd Nov 2015
    2:21pm
    I'm anything but a snob and if seen in the street I could be anybody. My concerns are that the welfare system is out of control with many Australians now having a welfare mentality. This is not good for any of us especially the generations to come.

    I personally have been disadvantaged by others who would selfishly do anything to get on the pension even though it is financially not in their best interests or they even need it. Why? Because they simply wanted to be part of the now elite class of old age pensioners.

    This is what is see as the entitled class.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:33pm
    Get your facts straight, Bonny. The welfare system is definitely NOT out of control. That's a huge political lie told to distract from policies that drive greater inequity.

    Australia's total welfare spend, as a percentage of GDP, is a full 3% lower than the OECD average, and highly affordable.

    Yes, there are some who ARE entitled to pensions (and it shouldn't be called ''welfare''). The aged ARE entitled, having paid tax all their working lives and contributed strongly to building a very prosperous country in which the current working generation is far, far better off than their parents could ever hope to be. The sick and disabled ARE entitled, in a compassionate society, to be adequately cared for. There SHOULD be reasonable support for people in desperate circumstances through no fault of their own. And in a country that can't provide enough jobs for all who want them, the unemployed SHOULD be supported - though I'd be delighted if they were made to do charity or community work for their payment.

    What is NOT good for generations to come is moving toward a society where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and there is no fair reward for hard work and sacrifice. The recent change to the taper rate is a classic example of killing incentive and driving people to just give up and claim a pension, because saving is punished. It's DUMB and DESTRUCTIVE policy that will ultimately drive much higher costs to support our growing aged population.
    Young
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:38am
    To all those pensioners who will get less pension from 2017 because of the assets test threshold being altered.Sell some of your assets.Easy as that.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:45am
    If I take the ducks off the wall then I'll need to paint it.
    Golden Oldie
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:21pm
    Love to sell my car, but has been stolen. It is only a 5 km walk to the nearest bus stop, and I may be able to limp this distance.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:21pm
    Yep, sell assets that they worked a lifetime and went without luxuries to acquire, just so that more privileged strangers can be better off. Accept the obligation to now forfeit all they worked for to benefit people who have no idea how hard it was to acquire those assets and who dine in fancy restaurants and holiday overseas while the SFRs battle and continue to sacrifice.

    Of course the idiots who make statements like Young's haven't a clue about economics. It would never occur to them that in an economic downturn those ''assets'' might not be salable, or might yield very little. Nor would it ever occur to them that some folk might have actually planned and saved for old age knowing that they would face certain significant expenses due to particular health or family needs. No, people who make these dumb statements can't see past their greedy, self-serving little noses and their deep green eyes.
    Mystic
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:39am
    Loading GST at 15% this covers pensioners as well, and then giving generous tax cuts....hey Turnball most pensioners don't pay PAYG tax but they will still be stuck with an ever increasing GST.

    An increase on tax on very high income earners such as yourself wouldn't work either as you know where to put your income to cover yourself. An increase in Medicare levy would have been better, protected the pensioners but covered those on high incomes that could afford to pay.
    SGW
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:40am
    A good book for everyone to read is The debt resistors operations manual. go to strike debt.org and comment after reading the book
    Reynolds
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:41am
    The GST is a regressive tax hitting those on static incomes the most. This is a lazy option for the government. The people who will be worse off after compensating with decreasing of income taxes will be pensioners, people with a disability, the unemployed and under employed and independent retirees who are on the lower range of incomes. It's my firm belief that as a country we need to ensure that our taxation system is more progressive with the very high income earners paying more!
    Gaby
    2nd Nov 2015
    11:42am
    I can see what will happen under a Liberal Government as it has done before. Those on large income will get tax breaks of hundreds of dollars and the compensation for people on low income or pensions will receive around 7 dollars to make up for a rise in the GST.
    No thank you, Low income people always wear the brunt of these so called 'fixes'
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    9:44am
    Gaby, can I borrow your crystal ball until after the Melbin Cup?
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    8:08pm
    Frank, the proposal included tax cuts of $41,000 a year for people earning more than $1 million a year. I don't think anyone needs a crystal ball!

    2nd Nov 2015
    11:52am
    A higher tax, in ANY way, is just more money for the government to squander. A sound government financial strategy is what is needed, not a taxpayer-filled buttonless federal pocket!
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:38pm
    Agreed but who is brave/smart enough?
    Kaz
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:38pm
    Agreed but who is brave/smart enough?
    KSS
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:33pm
    Fast Eddie "money for the Government to squander" on... oh let me see, .... oh yes, the age pension, medicare, schools, hospitals,........
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    4:29pm
    KSS, if you think the Age Pension is money squandered you are wasting your time on this website. It would probably be better for you to spend your time campaigning for The Greens or PUP.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:17pm
    Or the NAZIs or Bolshevists... gulag all the oldies and make them work in the salt mines...
    KSS
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:35pm
    FAst Eddie I notice you don't take issue with stopping the squandering on health or education, just the pension!
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:35am
    Aged pension, education, and health all contribute in a number of ways to taxation revenue... many need to stop their limited thinking, that somehow income tax is the whole ball game.

    EVERY person pays taxes every day, in any tranaction.

    You buy petrol - you pay taxes and excise.. you buy food - you pay taxes etc......

    Get your mind right, Luke!
    Pendrey
    4th Nov 2015
    2:15pm
    There is an old adage. 'Expenditure rises to meet income available'. When the GST was introduced it was supposed to solve all the problems, and help the States in their financial situation. Surprise surprise an increase is now needed. The more the government gets the more it will waste.
    Happy Jack
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:00pm
    In reply to young- selling your assets would not help as money in the bank is an asset!
    robmur
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:13pm
    I don't think any politicians have a clue as to how to fix the revenue problem we currently have. Shorten doesn't have a clue, he just says the rise in the GST isn't the way to go. But he doesn't detail in full his solution to the problem (if he has one). PM Turnbull has jumped on the raising the GST bandwagon as the panacea for resolving the revenue problem, without obviously detailing alternatives. Raising the GST seems to be the EASY WAY of resolving the revenue problem, and it is the one that is going to affect the hip pocket of most. There has to be better ways, or is this government too lazy to explore the alternatives? Forums like this website suggest many ways of ridding the country of its massive debt. Whether the suggestions are better or worse than the raising of the GST, I have no idea. It could be political suicide for Turnbull, then we would be left with a federal Labor government that has no idea other than to continue spending and increasing the country's debt. What a conundrum.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    4:07pm
    robmur, it must always be a spending problem otherwise not enough focus is placed on productivity and increasing revenue by increasing GDP.
    Shorten has said he will borrow more for infrastructure spending. I prefer Abbott's solution, he went around the globe talking up our nation as a good place to invest, which I think is a worthy goal. We need the RBA to come off another 25 points in order to put downward pressure on the $AUS as a little more incentive.
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:38am
    Who invested here? Chinese ore grabbers? Indian coal diggers? All of whom will offshore any profit and will pay minimal - if any - tax - while bringing in as many 457's as the market will bear... and under this government the sky is the limit.


    Who else has actively invested in something for AUSTRALIA?

    Answer:- NOBODY!
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:39am
    I forgot to include tax-havened multi-nationals who find it a burden to pay tax in the Bahamas, and through manipulation of financial arrangements - pay NONE here!

    Sorry for my oversight....
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    10:07am
    I was referring to our biggest foreign investors, USA and Canada.
    You must unlearn what you have learned.
    Rosret
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:15pm
    Since I am now living off "yesterday's" savings this will most definitely hurt. There is virtual no interest return on invested money and a 5% increase on everything is a cruel blow. Given inflation is running at around 3% any savings will now fall in value by 8% per year. Will there be some offset for self funded retirees? I would rather they stop the escalation in medical care costs for the elderly. At this rate we are more likely to face starvation in our old age let alone worrying about perpetual health checks.
    Franky
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:23pm
    Leave the GST alone, stop spending money on wars!
    Polly Esther
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:37pm
    Hmmm! I think I'll just put on my 'spec savers' and jump into my 'jeep' and race on down to the nursery and buy myself one of them there 'money' trees. If I'm quick I'll save 5% GST.
    Not at all happy!!! Thanks for nought Mr. Turncoat er I mean Turnbull ( dust )
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:40pm
    This one has been discussed time and again, and the answer is NO, for many reasons.

    1) John Howard, in introducing this tax burden, promised it would never change.

    2) In return for GST revenue, some revenue from Income Tax was foregone by lowering rates (in reality this only addressed bracket creep anyway, so this was sleight of hand).

    3) GST therefore introduced a level of Income Tax for those who did not then pay any, including Pensioners etc.

    4) Increased revenue on good and services will stifle the economy, since it will impact directly on the majority users - those at the bottom - who despite protestations to the contrary, still buy more goods overall than the fat cats. It is for this precise reason that I have always advocated the abolition of the GST.

    Government could raise revenue by converting all retirement income strands to the simple process of granting to all an Aged Pension and then taxing additional income above that on the same basis. The current system, as many times before, is already filled with often gross injustices

    Government could also raise revenue (that is its problem and a self-induced one due to the euphoria of the ore boom years) by dumping negative gearing and/or introducing full Capital Gains on property speculation, rather than the existing insanity of concessions on an anticipated loss before even entering the business. I see no reason to continue to subsidies poor investors for life and then allow them to get off with a golden handshake Capital Gains at the end of their business.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:40pm
    This one has been discussed time and again, and the answer is NO, for many reasons.

    1) John Howard, in introducing this tax burden, promised it would never change.

    2) In return for GST revenue, some revenue from Income Tax was foregone by lowering rates (in reality this only addressed bracket creep anyway, so this was sleight of hand).

    3) GST therefore introduced a level of Income Tax for those who did not then pay any, including Pensioners etc.

    4) Increased revenue on good and services will stifle the economy, since it will impact directly on the majority users - those at the bottom - who despite protestations to the contrary, still buy more goods overall than the fat cats. It is for this precise reason that I have always advocated the abolition of the GST.

    Government could raise revenue by converting all retirement income strands to the simple process of granting to all an Aged Pension and then taxing additional income above that on the same basis. The current system, as many times before, is already filled with often gross injustices

    Government could also raise revenue (that is its problem and a self-induced one due to the euphoria of the ore boom years) by dumping negative gearing and/or introducing full Capital Gains on property speculation, rather than the existing insanity of concessions on an anticipated loss before even entering the business. I see no reason to continue to subsidies poor investors for life and then allow them to get off with a golden handshake Capital Gains at the end of their business.
    Dan
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:43pm
    Increasing the GST to 15 % is a huge 50 % increase on the current rate ie 10 % plus 5% (50% increase )
    also most people who are in business and have registered ABN 's have the GST paid on expenses eg travel expenses , air fares ,meals ,phone ,newspapers office expenses etc etc all rebated in their BAS returns and effectively do not pay any Gst on those expenses
    and worse every tome aproduct like acar is traded and resold through a dealer or registered ABN holder it is taxed over again every time it is sold .
    The libs and Turnbull are playing us for suckers especialy the low oncome earners and self funded retiress . Tax the Turnbulls and the super rich with their investments in the Caymen islands and do not vote for the greedy parisites who pay little tax on their fortunes Best to reduce public spending as Abbott and Hockey wanted to do without raising new inequitable tax like the GST Tiurball is a fake showman I do not want to pay 15 5 tax on my coffin and funeral expenses it is criminal
    Diamond Jim
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:48pm
    Self funded retirees who just miss out on any government help via pensions or Health Care Cards would most severely affected by an increase in the GST as they don't pay tax (normally) so any tax cut on income would not give them anything! Just increase the 'Medicare' Levy to 4% so that the more you earn, the more you pay! A fairer system for all. Ideally this LNP government should be going after all those major corporations that pay little or no tax such as Ikea, Apple, Google etc etc. They would raise the billions needed instantly!
    Circum
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:48pm
    Increasing the Medicare levy would be far fairer to the nation than increasing the GST.Reducing taxes for some as compensation makes no sense at all if we are trying to reduce debt.
    Oars
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:55pm
    Firstly there has been no announcement from the Govt that they have decided on any change to GST. Just a hint that the well oiled media have hyped up on. Secondly. IF that happens, then the costs will not change in relative terms. You have to decide how you live within the means. The GST was really aimed at big business who have to pay GST in Australia even though they can avoid other taxes through offshore manouvers. Get it. It is still an idea- and not likely to get a popular vote from drips who can't see past their red noses,!!!
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:39pm
    News flash, Oars! Businesses claim back their GST. And do you seriously think they claim it back honestly? Fuel bought for their family car is listed as a business expense so it earns them a tax cut plus a GST refund. Furniture bought for the CEO's house is listed as bought for the business. It goes on and on.

    Yes, it's just an idea at this stage, but one that is suggested should provide funds to offer people earning $1 million + per year a $41,000 tax cut. I don't think the people opposing it are the ''drips who can't see past their noses''.
    Tezza
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:55pm
    Billy Shorten should get his union buddies, HSU, CFMEU, AMWU, WTF, etc to form a new union, the OFU (Old Farts Union). This union could look after the welfare of all OFs in return for their votes and being made a beneficiary in their wills. Billy could promise GST rebates to all OFs.
    KSS
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:28pm
    Yes Tezza and he could get 16 year olds to vote for it!
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:40am
    .. and 16 year olds know so much.. Jesus God....
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    10:25am
    Billy may be needing those newly groomed votes. Now that he has a 17% preferred PM poll, union bosses are wondering who are those people?
    WayneD
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:57pm
    I don't know if it is the best way, but I have always thought the GST was too low. I watched what happened in England and New Zealand, and both had to raise the interest rate when they brought in a Value Added Tax.
    I know people on low incomes and pensions will spend more of their money on things, but if the Government does it properly and takes away concessions on high income earners, and other Tax benefits they recieve it will be alright.
    You can't pay for schools, hospitals [ which the elderly use a fair bit of ] roads and emergency services, unless there is Taxes coming in. Working people always complain about the Tax they pay, but still complain when there are no childminding centres or roads are in disrepair, you can't have it both ways.
    The main thing is do you want a higher percentage GST or higher income tax.
    If the Government are honest and do it properly,and that means Higher Tax for the rich, less concessions for the higher income earners and less benefits to the higher income earners then it should be ok.
    I'm not a Liberal voter, but I trust this Prime Minister.
    Oars
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:10pm
    Wayne- do you understand that Ozz has lost ity's "golden egg" the royalties tax and other taxes gained by our mining industry. As forecasted by a few, the mining industry will dwindle along with not such a bright future due to overseas "competition" and that our "friendly market" has dropped the price !!! It's like Daddy having to sell the Rollo for $10K and having the kids go to Westmead High . Get it. We no longer have a "sheep's back" to feed off. Then there's the fact that a large majority of immigrants pay less tax than they use in social/ infrastructure/ schools/ hospitals--- so we heading down the proverbial gurgler- hold on the train has already started.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:27pm
    Oars, do you understand that the government is lying to the people of Australia about our economic health and these claims that pensions and health care are not affordable are merely ideological distractions? And to the extent that there is any truth in a claim to need more tax revenue, there are billions to be reaped by an equitable reform to reduce superannuation concessions to high income earners, crack down on tax evasion, and tax global corporates fairly on their operations in Australia. We DO NOT need to attack the battlers yet again.
    Rae
    4th Nov 2015
    9:25am
    Check out how successful the 28% sales tax hike worked out for Greece.

    Only 25% of workers were laid off and 70 000 businesses in Athens forced to close.

    Austerity just does not work when there is a liquidity trap.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:41pm
    And Singapore has one of the most successful economies in the world - despite having almost NO natural resources - with a GST of only 7%.

    Maybe we'd be better of LOWERING the GST and giving everyone a little more to spend so we stimulate economic growth and create more jobs?
    Scrivener
    2nd Nov 2015
    12:58pm
    Cut Pollie perks.
    KSS
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:06pm
    All you Chicken Littles out there repeating the same "the sky will fall" predictions that preceded the introduction of the GST in 2000, let me tell you: the sky will not fall in, the sun will come up in the morning and Christmas will still come round once a year even if the GST is raised to 15% or more. AND IT HASN"T HAPPENED YET!

    And one more thing. All those now wanting the monies paid to politicians to now be spent on NOT raising the GST, what about all those other things you were demanding the money be spent on instead such as pensions, GP visits, health insurance, medicines, subsidised everything from bus tickets to rates? Just how much money do you think will be raised by taking it from the Politicians?
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:43pm
    KSS, OECD figures prove our pensions and health care system are highly affordable, costing a full 3% of GDP LESS than the OECD average. And the reason for the GST hike has nothing to do with pensions of health costs. It's so the government can give a $41,000 a year tax cut to people earning $1 million a year or more, and can cut corporate taxes and mining taxes.
    Adrianus
    5th Nov 2015
    8:56am
    Rainey, let me see if I understand your logic?
    We can no longer have income tax cuts because the high income earners will benefit? We cannot have an increase to GST because high income earners will benefit? We cannot raise more taxes to fund health and other social services?
    So what's the alternative? Keep borrowing or reduce spending?
    Anonymous
    6th Nov 2015
    6:07pm
    The alternative, Frank, has been documented over and over. Abolish obscene tax concessions on huge superannuation accounts. Address negative gearing. Stop corporate tax evasion. Make the rich pay their share. Stopping govt. waste and obscene pay and benefits to politicians and bureaucrats would help also. Oh, and raise pensions and single-income family benefits and cut taxes for very low income earners so that we drive increased consumption which, in thru, drives job growth and tax revenue growth. After all, our aged pensions are lousy by world standards and our total welfare bill is 3% below the OECD average, so we can well afford to look after our disadvantaged better than we do.

    We have the answers. The problem is that the LNP won't accept them because they don't serve the interests of the greedy rich.
    Patriot
    6th Nov 2015
    6:13pm
    Rainy,
    The ALP is "Only different in Name".
    They will NOT accept the valid facts & solutions you put forward either.
    Anonymous
    6th Nov 2015
    6:19pm
    Probably true, sadly, Patriot. We need a total overhaul of the political system. Meanwhile though, clearly Labor is less inclined to pursue obscene levels of wealth transfer from the battlers to the rich.
    Adrianus
    6th Nov 2015
    6:23pm
    Rainey, OECD averages are fine to use if other taxes are considered. As an example, what would be the average consumption tax of those included in the OECD? I am sure it would be higher than Australia's without looking?
    I don't know what the LNP will not accept and I doubt the media does either, so you must have some insight?
    Patriot
    6th Nov 2015
    6:31pm
    Rainy,

    Introduction of :
    1 Citizens Initiated referendum (By US - The People)
    2 Voters Veto
    3 Recall

    Would be the mechanisms required to keep the B's honest & "Curb the GREED". .
    Try to get that Implemented with these CLOWNS on power currently though?

    GOOD LUCK to ALL of US!!!
    Anonymous
    6th Nov 2015
    9:59pm
    Not sure about average consumption taxes, Frank, except that the most prosperous economies have lower taxes than Australia. 7% in Singapore for example, and it has a far healthier economy than Aus despite having virtually no natural resources. Consumption taxes fuel inflation and drive up wage costs which in turn drives up the cost of exports and reduces exports. They also drive up living costs and thus create a need for higher pensions and welfare payments which, in turn, require more government revenue and thus higher taxes. Vicious circle! There are far more efficient ways to fuel government coffers.

    Alarmingly, though, Morrison says the Government will NOT raise more revenue through tax restructure. It will merely change the sources of revenue. Meaning: More GST will be paid by battlers so the rich can pay less income tax. There will be no net revenue gain to cover spending.

    Yes Patriot. Sadly I have to agree with you.
    Adrianus
    6th Nov 2015
    10:46pm
    Rainey as you say, higher taxes drive up welfare. Most OECD countries have higher consumption taxes than OZ hence the need for higher welfare expenditure.
    Singapore is a different story. I see similarities with what this government is doing. I don't think the Singaporean local governments are allowed to spend beyond their allocated distribution. Can you imagine if that were the case here? States spending within their budgets and working in a cohesive spirit to grow the economy not just for their state but for the good of the country. There are so many things wrong with the way Australia formulates budgets and states and territories do their own thing. If Australia was a listed company the ASX would be asking some serious questions.
    Brissiegirl
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:24pm
    25% of the working population already pay 75% of the total tax take. I don't see how much more the achievers, business risk-takers and employers can be leaned on. Everyone should pay the same percentage of tax and if they find it difficult making ends meet, there's the incentive to work on improving their own situation. As for putting the GST on essentials e.g. health, education and fresh food - that would be a vote-killer imo.
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    10:28am
    Where have the risk takers gone? They seemed to have disappeared in 2008/9 and haven't returned?
    Brissiegirl
    3rd Nov 2015
    10:54am
    By risk-takers, I meant Australians who continue mortgaging their houses to start-up small businesses, employing young people. Those who sink all their life-savings into small businesses, or take loans, hoping the people they give jobs to won't let them down. The people who buy in stock, hoping their research comes to fruition, and they will have a plentiful and steady buyers' market, so they can continue employing people. People who invest their savings in their kids education in the belief there will be jobs, opportunities and improved outcomes for them.
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:08pm
    That's exactly who I thought of too. I guess they're still there but are no longer bullish. Those 6 horror years just showed how fragile our economy is. It showed how quickly it can be destroyed if put in the wrong hands.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    10:48pm
    Why would anyone bother to take risks to accrue a modest amount of wealth, when it gets you nothing? We took risks. We worked our guts out. We went without things most consider necessities (as well as ALL luxuries) to save. And what did it get us? We are now much worse off than those who just worked a 35 hour week, took expensive holidays, dined out, and spent freely on nice clothes and new cars every few years.

    In Australia today, you either get very rich and become part of the elite privileged set whose greed is fed by the LNP, or you stay poor. There's no in-between. If you manage to accrue a modest savings nest egg for retirement, you will have to eat it all up just maintaining a standard of living somewhere close to that enjoyed by pensioners.

    If I had my time over, I sure wouldn't take risks. And I have strongly advised my kids not to bother.
    Adrianus
    5th Nov 2015
    9:02am
    Rainey, it sounds to me that you didn't get your set top box, roof insulation, cheques in the mail, and you're still waiting for faster internet? If not each and every one of us, who do you think will be paying for all this?
    Anonymous
    7th Nov 2015
    8:16pm
    Frank, the same people that are paying for this relatively minor waste (in the overall scheme of things) are paying for obscene generosity to the wealthy and compensating for the rich not paying their share of tax. Neither party has my approval. It's a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, sadly. But I would prefer Labor any day to this vile government that insists on persecuting our senior citizens and the poor, wiping out the middle class, and consistently refusing to stop the overindulgence of the wealthy.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:31pm
    Time for the Trebor Offshore Business Activities Tax (TOBAT) - you want to trade here? You ante up a percentage as pre-defined for your activities and your profits when you come here to trade - your tax relationship with your haven is your own concern - not ours, and I don't recall this country signing up to any agreement that we will allow you to profit here and then pay no tax.

    As long as the international taxation system is not part of the 'global economy' - NEITHER IS ANYTHING ELSE! Take it or leave it.

    You like - you sell! No like - no sell!
    Rae
    4th Nov 2015
    9:30am
    It would be simple to tax outgoing money transfers a very small part of a % tax. That would also help local businesses manufacturing here in Australia with home grown resources.

    That they won't do it suggests the IMF and Central Banks are running the show.
    Old Fella
    2nd Nov 2015
    1:55pm
    Does anyone know what the total percentage value of tax is currently paid by those earning income. Sales Tax, Payroll tax, Medicare, ATO Marginal tax Rate , GST, Levi's of one sort or another, Toll roads in lieu of Public Roads ,Capital Gains, the list is endless. I however agree with one point, how do we as an Australian entity increase revenue -- not for the Government but for the individual creating the product of and for the country. I ask - will one or two Warships or planes costing a Billion or so each really make a difference in any modern war, do three layers of Government (Local, State, Federal) really provide better Governance. Why is it Corporations can minimize tax yet enjoy without cost the use of Public Utilities, and benefit generally from Gov't subsidies, Sadly I am being converted to the viewpoint that the Targets and Goals of the Nation should be less spending by those not creating the product and necessities of the Nation (Viz Politicians) and for our legislators and Politicians to recollect more frequently the money they spend as Government will always be other peoples money. I propose one Tax only for all and everything not the mismatch of taxes that is used and abused under current tax arrangements . If that one tax is named GST and ends up as 50% so be it. Even at 50% , I suspect the 'average Joe' would be financially better of than under the current Tax Regime.
    Tezza
    2nd Nov 2015
    2:38pm
    Old Fella, no, warships and planes will not make any difference in a modern war. It is all about 'one-upsmanship' , 'Look at what I've got' 'mine is bigger than yours' . It is expensive sabre rattling.
    I am against over paid Public Servants using and abusing the tax payers of Oz. What goals and targets are set for public servants? They have to do something fairly drastic to be 'let go' (sacked/fired in the old vernacular).
    Look at some of the schools (public) with poor teachers. Almost a job for life and then go for compensation payout because of stress, discrimination, RSI from white board writing, etc.
    les.61
    2nd Nov 2015
    2:03pm
    Because we are self funded retirees we would not get any of the benefits that pensioners may get and our GST bill would go up by about $1,500 per years. How about we start by taking away the Child Care Rebate for the rich. At the moment you can be earning $300,00 or more and still get $7,500 child care rebate from the Government!!! Scrap Paid Maternity Leave! If you want children have the moral and financial responsibility for them. We live in a "me me me" society and want the government to pay for everything and personal tax cuts every year. We can only do this so often before we go broke as a country. One reason (and not the only reason) why houses are so expensive is that we get tax breaks like the Child Care Benefits, etc so we have more to spend so we push up the price of houses and it just goes round and round. I know it is old fashion but maybe cut out Paid TV, cut down on eating out and we would all have more to help pay the bills and be healthiers as well. Simplicty but might work.
    Alexia_x
    2nd Nov 2015
    2:22pm
    Instead of all this, why don't the politicians lower their salaries? Specially the rich ones or the multimillionaires like Mr Turnbull and others.
    Take the example of leaders of some European countries that have taken cuts on their pay and some even renounce to be paid at all because they are rich.
    Politicians and their pensions and salaries should be reviewed and changed in a reasonable manner, the excesses can be cut off by more than half and also the number of public servants, mainly politicians, also cut in half. All they do most of them is fall half asleep in Parliament sessions.
    Than would bring this nation to a controlled economy, but of course, knowing this country will never happen.
    Rosscoe
    2nd Nov 2015
    2:25pm
    Increase GST???? No way!!!!!! Trust the LNP feds to be encouraging this,
    Smithy
    2nd Nov 2015
    2:39pm
    I'm on a DSP & I'm not rorting anyone. I started work at 14 & at 21 I bought my own semi trailer & worked 60 to 80 hours a week until I started to lose my upper body strength at age 53 when I was forced to sell my truck & retire. I went back to work in an office but ended up in ICU with breathing difficulties & was told never to work again. I lived off my money for 5 years before I applied for & got the DSP. I have a necrotizing myopathy (if you don't know what that is google it) & PTSD, STOP assuming everyone on DSP is a rorter as I can assure you I would much prefer to be back at work & I 'm now 62 & have never rorted anyone. NO I don't like the idea of increasing the GST as pensioners & low income earners won't be sufficiently compensated as usual.
    Tezza
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:19pm
    Smithy, PIXAPD stated that there were so many rorters of the DSP. He did not state that all DSP recipients were rorters. Sorry about your muscular pain.
    The wealthy will not be impacted by a GST increase. They will continue to purchase and mainly high end items and the government will be picking up an extra 5%. Some of the extra revenue will go towards the numerous assistance packages managed at a federal level. We can only hope that people on pensions will be compensated for the additional 5% they may be hit in gst.
    I would like to see higher taxes on grog, cigarettes and gambling.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:31pm
    I take my hat off to anyone who is rorting the DSP. They deserve to be paid for being so damn clever! Anyone who can get past the cruel assessments by Centrelink and qualify under the absurdly limited guidelines, then escape detection by Centrelink investigators (and escape being reported by zealous neighbours) deserves to be a lot better off than a poor old battler struggling on the miserable income the DSP provides.

    Geez, these rorters should get off the DSP and go start some kind of illicit business. With their skill at deception and evasion, they would make a motza!

    Ever stop to think that maybe you are being lied to about rorting the DSP as yet another of the many ideological distractions this government uses to drive us all to accept higher taxes, a lower standard of living, and a greater transfer of wealth to the rich and privileged?
    pom13
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:03pm
    Soylent Green will be the next LNP Policy
    Young
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:24pm
    Then spend some money Happy Jack.
    We Need to spend.But don't buy Aldis.Buy Australian.
    audrey
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:24pm
    The best way to raise revenue is to cut all benefits to politicians and put them on performance based salaries,,we would soon hear about how they are supposed to manage on their meagre incomes instead of hitting the less fortunate all the time,,,,AND not ALL people on DSP have VISIBLE problems//illnesses
    Dotty
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:40pm
    And again if the GST is raised ? "Who" will be the first and most to suffer from higher prices !
    Pensioners and those on lower income of course !!
    Dotty
    Wombat66
    2nd Nov 2015
    3:41pm
    Tax cuts won't help those like me who don't even earn enough to pay tax!
    happy
    2nd Nov 2015
    4:36pm
    What a sad lot of malcontents. Envy is a very sad emotion. The wealthy pay their taxes by and large. The multinationals I agree should definitely pay their share. I despair when I read many of the comments. Can't see past their own selfishness. For goodness sake think of your country's well being and be happy with what you have. I am not wealthy but I manage.
    Jen
    2nd Nov 2015
    7:11pm
    What a sad and bitter mind you have "happy." "Envy?" "Selfishness?" How easily you dismiss people's genuine concerns.
    Brissiegirl
    2nd Nov 2015
    7:24pm
    Just watching the gutter journalism on t.v. comparing Hockey (not Gillard, not Rudd, not Mr Family Holiday Man on taxpayer funds Tony Burke) with pensioners paying cheap rent in government-funded housing. The pensioners shown must be about the same age as many here, who left school in times when jobs were aplenty and slaved away, saved deposits for houses, paid them off, went without, raised kids, paid for their education and so on. And there they are moaning because the pension doesn't pay for luxuries, hair-do's, eating out. The pension was meant to stop people from going cold and hungry. It wasn't meant to pay for car insurance, petrol,internet, mobile phones, eating out, holidays. We were all supposed to save for those things in retirement. Talk about the entitlement mentality. It's an Australian disease.
    TREBOR
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:24pm
    The old 'politics of envy' saw died with Thatcher.. thank god.... the only envy I see is from the well-off who consider that their inferiors should not be considering raising their station in life by hard work etc.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:11pm
    If you were thinking of your country's well being, Happy, you would be vehemently opposing proposals to increase inequity and social problems and further enrich the wealthy at the expense of battlers. I applaud you for managing. I do too. And I'm happy with what I have. What I am NOT happy with is a government that is doing serious damage to Australia and causing grave hurt to so many. For the country's well-being, we MUST stand up for what is right and fair and in the interests of a healthy society.
    GiGi
    2nd Nov 2015
    4:46pm
    What about rent? How will that be affected? As far as I know, landlords have to pay GST, so that an increase of 5% in GST will mean an increase of 5% in rent. For renters like me on a fixed income, that is bad, bad news! If Turnbull does this - but leaves policies alone that largely benefit the wealthy and/or middle class (such as superannuation tax benefits, middle class welfare, and negative gearing) - he will certainly not get my vote at the next election. It's not often that I like Bill Shorten (though I've always been a Labour voter - I even spell it in the old way!), but I like his views on this - a lot!!!
    happy
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:17pm
    Of course you do gigi. Shorten and labor will always give generously. It's not their money. It's the labor party not the labour party.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:54pm
    You can tell who the pommies are :)
    Young
    2nd Nov 2015
    5:07pm
    Love your comments Happy.It is all me,me,me these days.

    2nd Nov 2015
    5:57pm
    Told you Turnbull would give the people 'warm fuzzier' but continue along with the big end of towns, 'wish list' policies.

    GST screws the moderately wealthy, the average and the disadvantaged.... it is a FLAT tax which means it is inequitable both the poor and the ultra wealthy pay the same amount. Yes, the wealthy may buy goods but in terms of INCOME to GST paid... the wealthy are laughing all the way to the bank!

    REMEMBERING, of course, that NO BUSINESS pays GST ... ONLY YOU DO!!!

    To put GST on health is unacceptable.... see, the Liberal Party were hell bent to make the poor and the sick pay MORE for their health.

    No Turnbull is the king of double speak and is a smooth as a babies bum but he is simply a more presentable 'mouth' for the big end of town.

    We were the ONLY country in the world to actually 'vote in' GST when Howard did his multi million dollar advertising campaign which was chock a block full of blatant LIES.... screwed the people big time and filled his coffers with about $2000 from each and every pensioner, unemployed and disadvantaged household in society.

    Dirty, dirty old man Packer or should I say the criminal called Goanna, backed the this tax to the hilt. A little old lady told me.... "I don't know much about politics but if Mr Packer is supporting this new tax, then I know it won't be good for me"

    What a smart women she was. Believe her wise words AND remember under the previous Labor govt.
    - Lowest govt. DEBT in the world
    - internationally assessed as the Best economy in the world
    - triple AAA credit rating (first time ever)
    - AU$ included in the international currency mix (first time ever)
    - preparing to give ALL and EVERY household the very best NBN in the world, no kids missed out for only $37b instead of the absolute rubbish NBN we are currently being provided with for TRIPLE this cost
    - Govt. managed our economy so well that there was NO problems with providing OUR OWN disadvantaged with benefits and services that need it most
    - Govt. was able to maintain our Health system without charging us more
    - Govt. provided Australia with a Carbon Tax that was working and the average person was not affected because they were OVER compensated. The big boys were already gearing up to change their ways and swap over to pollution reduced production processes.... until Abbott stepped in... the proposed environmental pollution solution proposed by Turnbull, once again is Abbott's proposal and is a JOKE

    I am not a laborite and probably won't vote for Shorten BUT I will never vote for this disgusting SELL OUT AUSTRALIA to FOREIGN MEGACORPS govt. I don't want USA corporations to OVERRIDE Australian Laws, pollute our lands and steal our heritage because that is what the TPP means to Australia.

    Nah.... don't get roped in by the BIG BOYS propaganda and give this lot the flick.
    -
    Jen
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:59pm
    I think it's too late for some.

    Well said, Mussitate.
    Old Silver Fox
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:28pm
    Mussitate,
    Any chance I can get some of the hallucinogens you are obviously on......?
    Circum
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:03pm
    Your comments lack credibility Mussitate,and you left off the last line:Spoken on behalf of the labour party by Mussitate:
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:42am
    Spot on, Mussitate...... got it in one...
    Patriot
    3rd Nov 2015
    10:51am
    Telling them the TRUTH is one thing comprehending the same is quite sa feat for some obviously.

    Well done mussitate.
    You "can lead a horse to water - but making some drink is a much more difficult matter
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    11:58am
    Mussitate, I admonish myself every time after reading one of your longwinded pieces of twaddle and swear not to do it again!
    I get caught by your uppercase, thinking it is important.
    I got caught by your statement "REMEMBERING, of course, that NO BUSINESS pays GST ... ONLY YOU DO!!!" in the vain hope that you would have another whopper to validate that crap.
    Patriot
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:01pm
    Frank
    If your were more diligent reading Mussitate's CRAP (As you call it) you might reverse some of the "Brain-Washing the Pollies are doing on your self Frank.
    So "Just Keep Reading".
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:31pm
    I'm not saying I'm not diligent in reading Mussitate's crap. I quoted it verbatim didn't I?
    I'm saying I am left with a question after reading Mussitate's twadle. "Why did I just do that again?" I'm sure I'm only one of a very small minority who think that way about Mussitate's twadle. So try not to get too upset about it.
    So you obviously believe the crap about "REMEMBERING, of course, that NO BUSINESS pays GST ... ONLY YOU DO!!!"
    Princesca
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:01pm
    I am in favour of this, I am sure the pension will be adjusted accordingly. Tax could be lowered and maybe some hidden taxes could be abolished, Stamp duty could go.
    pom13
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:37pm
    Do you really think this mob cares about Pensioners? take off your Rose coloured glasses!!!
    Rae
    4th Nov 2015
    10:11am
    Well that is just fine for pensioners Princess.
    You even received compensation for the carbon tax. Lucky you.

    Not so for those of us who saved for our retirement.

    If you think this government cares about you I can assure you they don't.

    Stamp duty is a good upfront tax that catches money from the international investors buying up Australian property. Why would you want to get rid of it?
    Adrianus
    4th Nov 2015
    10:31am
    pom13, I didn't hear anyone complaining about the upcoming $30 pension increase. We did however get the usual grumbles from some of the $millionaire pensioners being kicked off the teet.
    I agree with cutting the stamp duty and while they're at it cut the property tax as well for OZ citizens. The FIRB should be talking about the introduction of a foreign investment tax and don't pussyfoot around with it make it substantial, maybe 50-60% like they do in some European countries. Japan requires citizenship to register a car. To have dual registration for China and Hong Kong costs about $100k. Australia is a top 10 economy, which can do so much better in the way it collects and uses tax dollars.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    11:05pm
    Frank, the people kicked off the pension weren't millionaires. Many had less than $750,000 (for a couple) in income-returning assets and some have virtually no income-returning assets and very little worth selling in today's depressed economy. Many will have incomes, after Jan 2017, of less than $25000 a year (for a couple). But they will struggle on, funding the extravagance of others who are happily drawing a living income from the taxpayer purse and keeping all their savings in the bank to will to their offspring. Yes, those kicked off have good cause to complain - after working their guts out only to have all the rewards of their effort taken away to give to people who enjoyed a much more lavish lifestyle and didn't bother to save for old age.

    Meanwhile, a proposed GST increase will force battlers to sacrifice up to $2000 a year to fund tax cuts of $41,000 a year for poor old millionaires (earning $1 million+ per annum). Seems somehow inconsistent with the idea that people with modest savings shouldn't get pensions!

    Yes, Australia can do much better in the way it collects and uses tax dollars. It can raise pensions and do more to help single-income families. It can cut the GST and taxes on low incomes. It can tax high income earners and corporations more effectively, abolishing superannuation tax concessions for high contributors and restricting negative gearing. It can clamp down on tax evasion. It can stop tax dodging through family and discretionary trusts.

    If the rich paid their share and the battlers were given a little more, the result would be higher consumption generating higher economic growth, more tax revenue, and more jobs - which in turn would generate further growth, more tax revenue, and more jobs.
    Feeding greed merely restricts economic growth. Note that as inequality has increased, so have economic problems.

    The more tax the battlers pay, the less they have to spend in areas that drive currency circulation, job growth and tax revenue growth. Tax reductions for the rich don't result in increased spending to drive growth. They result in fatter superannuation accounts, fatter bank accounts, more money spent overseas, and more invested in shares and property, driving up housing prices and creating dangerous stock market bubbles.

    But smart Malcolm will no doubt take from the battlers to give to the millionaires - again. And some fools will support him, conned by lies about the cost of welfare (told purely to distract!). And the economy will shrink further.

    2nd Nov 2015
    6:30pm
    It has to be raised to 15%...no alternative...we need money...debt has to be reduced.
    Anonymous
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:34pm
    They sure conned you with their lies, Radish. Debt is lower than at most times in Australia's history. It's not about reducing debt. It's about increasing inequity and feeding the pigs at the troughs - taking more from the poor to give more to the wealthy. If not, they'd be looking at superannuation tax concessions, tax evasion, and the way global corporates are taxed, not forcing the poor to pay more so the well-paid can get a tax cut they neither need nor deserve.
    Jen
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:48pm
    Well said Rainey.
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:59am
    Rainey and Jen, I have something you may be interested in. It's a slightly used second hand bridge. Make an offer?
    That reminds me of how we raised the money for the Opera house.... Do governments still run lotteries to raise money or is that all privatised and taxed accordingly?

    2nd Nov 2015
    6:33pm
    hey frank, I'll take the ducks and send you the paint for the wall, let me know the colour you prefer.
    Adrianus
    2nd Nov 2015
    7:05pm
    Duck egg blue. :)
    snakelady
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:42pm
    Ok I think they should take 10% of all politicians wages and give back to the Australians that are or have worked hard to give the tax monies to the government. Anyone not working and under 30 should be up into national service.
    Most on DSP are disabled but I agree there are some that are not just as with parenting payments some live with the kids fathers some other dont Politicians get too much get the pension give them normal pensions, no fights paid by Us no drivers
    man saw
    2nd Nov 2015
    6:42pm
    all pay the tax
    Oars
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:52am
    Man saw- your subtle but brief comment is very true. Since I have lead all my life with facts and reality, I will add a bit of simple arithmetuc.
    If a "high roller" earns $250K then he/she spends about $200K, with a GST @ 15% gives a tax of $30K. Now a poor lil' ol' battler gets about 45K and spends about $40K GST @ 15% gives tax = $6 K Get it. The high roller pays 5 times more in GST than the battler. They both drive on the same roads, and can catch the Ferries/buses/trains/ and have the same telephones. -so who pays the majority of tax ????? Also, the high roller spends $200K on stuff that gives a lot of jobs. The battlers' $40K has only 1/5th of the money towards jobs. It's simple arithmetic, but wingers keep on winging without conceding FACTS>
    musicveg
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:00pm
    I agree with Rainer's comments.

    What good will 15% GST do to business in Australia? I am not good at maths, but I know another 5% on my spending including rent is going to make a big difference in my life. When buying big ticketed items you have saved up for years for like a car or much needed fridge, it makes a big difference.

    People will spend less on quality and will go for cheap and nasty Chinese made, how is this going to help jobs in Australia? How is it going to help the already struggling farmers?

    My answer to raising revenue, stop subsidizing the mining companies and the like.

    Politicians should travel economy and not get such a big pension, they should only get one when they retire like everyone else and only if they need it, and I am sure most of them don't.
    Glenda
    2nd Nov 2015
    8:29pm
    Raising the GST by 15% is a hefty increase. This increase is way too high. It will certainly make the poor even poorer and the scenario becomes even worse with the GST being applied to food and other essential basic day to day living necessities. Suffice to say that this will bring needy pensioners and self funded retirees to the brink of starvation with less or no food on the table, inability to purchase essential medications and simple consumption items for modest day to day living. So that spending ability will be taken away as most costs will be excessive for pensioners in need and self funded retirees, added to which is the looming prospect of getting little or no pension come January 2017. So how can these politicians expect us pensioners and self funded retirees to agree to this massive GST increase? Just why can't they look at their own murky perks, travel benefits, entertainment expenses, God knows what else is fraudulently taken by them, and for a start, they should substantially reduce/remove their "benefits" and takings that in actual fact they are greedily taking out of our own savings that we have worked hard for all our lives, in order to save for our twilight years. They need to take a good look at themselves and realise that just by greatly reducing their own takings from us pensioners and self funded retirees, that the economy would increase significantly. Why should ex politicians receive life long benefits when they have more than enough to take them through their old age; why should their pensions be treated differently (and of course, favourably) compared to the pensions that we receive? Why should needy pensioners and self funded retirees have to suffer these huge increases while the politicians can very easily self fund their own retirements and still live very comfortably? The 15% GST increase will simply make the poor even poorer. The politicians can vastly improve the economy by doing away with their extravagant and un-merited lurks and perks for both, serving politicians and past politicians.
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:44am
    Damn - you ARE my sister!
    Rae
    4th Nov 2015
    10:19am
    If all pensioners and retirees could just stop discretionary spending for a month or two I'm sure the panic from business leaders would stop this austerity drive very quickly.
    Libby
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:13pm
    What's the next thing will silvertail Turncoat raise? Looks like the pensioners etc. will have to go back to the "blazing saddles" (baked beans or spaghetti). Hopefully the 15% is voted out, who will benefit from it? You know the answer to this one! How is this GST going to sort out who is rich/poor? We are all paying 10% anyway!
    TREBOR
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:45am
    Damn! Nearly lost us a danged good rail trolley there! C'mon, boys.. let's git back to the camp.. it's danged hot out here!
    Oars
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:59am
    Libby- what is wrong with bake beans? I will give you my recipe: Chop up onions in a pan with some spices ( moroccon) and let sizzle then add the bake beans. Yum. Wack a lightly fried egg on top. The total price for 4 people ( I feed my three mates) is approx $6.00. So where is the tuff titties winge now. We look and feel great- and we take turns to cook-(The others are improving as they enjoy the challenge of eating well on a pension). Try it- it works. Oh- and we take turns in WALKING up to the shop for bread, milk, and papers daily. We are larfin' on a daily basis.

    2nd Nov 2015
    9:25pm
    frank, 2 ltrs do?
    worker
    2nd Nov 2015
    9:50pm
    Before any new taxations or increasing older ones what needs to be looked at is spending.
    (A) why are we the Australian citizens employers of members of parliament continue to pay them life time forms of pensions and other perks when they leave parliament and are no-longer how employees.
    (B) why are we paying them higher superannuation then other workers.
    (C)why do they get free trips holidays payed for by the Australian citizens after they have left parliament and no longer employed by Australians.
    it appears quite some millions could be saved at federal ,states and terror levels by bringing members of parliament in line with all other Australian workers .in this regard what company in Australia gives their former employees life time pensions and perk
    Libby
    2nd Nov 2015
    10:01pm
    At last, someone is in tune with me! This is what I have been asking for a long time and this should stop so that the money we pay them for all the perks can go to the much starved infrastructure like schools, hospitals other health issues to help those really in need. Will these pollies EVER drop their salary? NO! Kevin Rudd tried to stop some of their perks when he was PM and they all shouted him down! If our beloved country goes broke like Greece, who will run away from this? The COWARDLY members of parliament! Let's hope it will never come to this.
    Old Silver Fox
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:28am
    You're right worker...but first of all get the muppets in Canberra to justify the need for the tax increases.
    Adrianus
    3rd Nov 2015
    10:43am
    Kevin, come back. We didn't mean what we said :)
    jonty
    3rd Nov 2015
    3:05am
    This conservative government always passes the buck.
    It allows the rich individuals and corporate's to continually avoid paying their proper share of tax, by allowing all sorts of loopholes and tax refuges.
    In a civilized society taxation should be progressive ie. the more more income (which should be deemed for the rich ) as it is for those unlucky enough to be out of work and on a pension - not regressive which is what a GST is; Where all pay the same regardless of income.
    If progressive taxation was the case there would easily be enough government revenue to pay for everything.
    The trouble is that the rich dominate the media and continually denigrate ordinary folk and their only champion the unions to their fiscal advantage.
    Just as they used to get elected years ago with the 'reds under the bed' tactics.

    Cast your minds back to a time before the unions where no one had a voice. And then consider the positives in the rise of the standard of living, and in wages and conditions since then. Any advances are due to the union collective and Labor and their friends in the Senate.
    Since Thatcher and Reagan the rich have been steadily clawing at that better standard of living until despite the better wages; privatization's and tax schemes which benefit the rich have meant that so many still have to battle to make ends meet.

    Ask yourselves if this should still be the case.
    The 'greed is good' mantra does nothing for humanity and you only have to look at the 16+ trillion dollar deficit in the US to see how public money has been gradually siphoned off by the rich/private sector.
    Don't kid yourselves that under any conservative government you can make it through life without decent help now and again, because you just won't get it.
    I don't vote based on any ideology but I know that under a government just left of centre, which at the moment is the Labor Party, that money is more progressively distributed and ordinary people which is most of us are not squeezed out of existence by lack of money or worry about it.

    So don't expect to see any positive change to ordinary peoples circumstances any time soon.
    Slash , burn and higher taxes will remain the norm until we get a government with a conscience.
    RogerA
    3rd Nov 2015
    3:07am
    Dear Mr Morrison,
    The problem about "... average wage earner in this country about to move into the second-highest tax bracket at $80,000 next year" is easily solved. Just bring in 1, or 2, or 3 new levels above the current "second-highest tax bracket" and it will become the "third-highest" or "fourth highest", or "fifth highest", etc. Problem solved!

    Next problem, how to sell a GST increase to a self funded retiree like me on a pension with very little scope for increase? Easily solved! Just raise the GST on things I do not buy for myself or my grandchildren. Like, let's have GST on car purchases raised to 15% for mid-size, and 20% for Toyota Battlecruiser and its equivalents, whilst leaving small cars like my ageing Corolla at 10%? (though aforesaid ageing Corolla has to last me for the rest of my days). Let's have GST on rentals over $750/week, or whatever. Let's have 10% GST on property sales over $1 million, 15% on sales over $2 million, etc. Come on Scott, mate, think outside the box!!
    Old Silver Fox
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:24am
    Roger, how about asking Morrison to justify the increase before you negotiate anything else...don't assume that an increase is justified.
    Jen
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:14am
    From Get Up: How the Coalition are going to deliver a $41,000 tax cut to those earning $1 million: Are they bloody kidding?

    A Coalition MP just put forward a costed plan to increase the GST to 15% for all Australians and deliver a $41,000 income tax cut for people making $1 million a year.

    A GST hike would already hit lower income Australians harder – and they want to use it to fund tax cuts that benefit the wealthiest the most?!

    In what world does that make sense?

    Sign the petition to stop the GST ripoff: http://bit.ly/1iwDjAo

    https://www.facebook.com/GetUpAustralia/photos/a.401481301454.178964.13527056454/10153050771226455/?type=3&theater
    Old Silver Fox
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:18am
    Why do most assume, usually incorrectly, that any proposed tax increase is automatically justified.....? The pollies promoting this GST increase are, at best, devious mongrels with their eyes on their own futures. We need to wake up and fight the necessity for such an unjustified increase.
    Pamiea
    3rd Nov 2015
    12:02pm
    "I would suggest raising the GST by 1 % per year over a five year period and be capped at, for example 12% over two years based on the 2015 rate, or other appropriate increases as required" Well said Wally.

    PIXAPD I know a few RORTERS or should I say ROTTERS. Why don't we just dob them in as the infrastructure of the Government simply does not have the staff to catch them all. Bring back "DOB IN A DOLE CHEAT"!! Our sense of decency prevents us in most cases so who wins - the ROTTERS!! For those who are legitimately on DSP we are not having a shot at you.

    All I can say is I am pleased I didn't vote this Liberal Government in.

    Get rid of family trusts which apportions wealthy peoples incomes to their whole family thus reducing their tax! WHAT A JOKE THIS IS!!
    Amadeoz
    3rd Nov 2015
    2:26pm
    I am retired and not wealthy, but in view of the public budget, would be prepared to accept a 2.5% increase in GST on the condition that the Government gets into action to (1) cut down on the tax privileges of the high-income earners. (2) moves on the multinationals to pay their due taxes and (3) emends the perks of current and ex-ministers. Additionally, offer an incentive to those who are sure that somebody is rorting the welfare/disability system. Only if the rich, the multinationals and our politicians and rorters are addressed, I am glad to make a sacrifice to sanitaise our finances. Of course, it's only fair to adjust the tax brackets for the workers in the middle.
    Anonymous
    4th Nov 2015
    11:13pm
    Amadeoz, if they implemented your 3 suggestions, they could actually LOWER the GST. Certainly wouldn't need to increase it. We don't need to make any sacrifices to sanitize our finances. Our welfare bill is well below the OECD average (at 18% of GDP as opposed to a 21% average). We have among the lowest social welfare costs in the world, and very low debt.

    But the proposed GST raise isn't to ''sanitize our finances''. It's to give tax cuts to the rich - $41000 a year to people earning more than $1 million a year, for example. Still willing to make the sacrifice?
    LiveItUp
    3rd Nov 2015
    2:29pm
    Now I know why I resisted buying that plasma TV at Hardly Normal. I know that one day the government would want it back with interest.
    Libby
    3rd Nov 2015
    4:26pm
    To Oars: Nothing wrong with baked beans darling. I love 'em on English muffins with a slice of bacon and sunny side up egg, also the tinned spaghetti on toast. Plenty of good fibre, I'm talking about some people who really can't afford to buy the fresh vegies but then again if you're happy with what you eat then go for it! There are times when I just don't feel hungry enough for chicken and vegies so I do like to have variety whatever takes my fancy. I also use my imagination in what I do with something so bland. If you're on your own why bother cooking a roast for one? I just buy the hot roast meal from Coles! Good enough for me! The ACA just showed this week what the rich and poor eat as well as other perks, one side showed baked beans! Check it out.

    3rd Nov 2015
    7:58pm
    reading all these comments, I now wonder how it is possible for me to be still alive at 80 jears of age and living very well on my government pension, what a shame that even to-days pensioners have now accepted the ME ME culture which has engulfed this great country of us, if you can't live on the pension, admittedly if you are renting it is harder even with the rent allowance, you should hang your head in shame.
    comments of who could live on $ 25000.00 a year, I get less, pay my bills on time and still can afford some luxury like a couple of restaurant or r.s.l meals a week and a holiday away from home every 2 years.
    What has become of the great australian spirit, we are now a nation of moaners, rorters and very few doers and leaving it for our kids to pick up the pieces.
    Australia wake up, we got ourselves into this debt, regardless of it was labor or liberal government, don't leave it to our kids or grandchildren to pick up the cost of our mistakes.
    Happy Jack
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:37pm
    Well! well! we have the fairy POLITICIANS FLITTERING AROUND like butterflies in the bottom of the garden with their "won't do that, will do this, need to make changes to the GST, won't won't make changes to the GST, need to look at the entire tax mix" etc, etc. And now we've gone from "if the GST comes in "it will be revenue neutral" to the "we need to ensure the average family will not be lose out". Will Malcolm, who has a marvellous way with words, particularly when he has us all seated in class giving us a rudimentary lesson, please give us his definition of an average family? I'll bet self funded retirees who are not in receipt of the aged pension are not included.
    Blossom
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:54pm
    Yet another broken promise - "there will be no increase in GST" Why am I not surprised. I can't imagine Centrelink being permitted to increase pensions and other allowances much as it will cost them. Many basic necessities attract GST - medications that are cheaper without prescription than with (some Eye Drops are cheaper), shoes, clothes, items such as brooms and toilet brushes for cleaning, gas, electricity, Gas. I use worn out clothes as dusters and if I thought about there is probably a lot more every day items we pay GST on. Not sure about water.
    Blossom
    3rd Nov 2015
    8:59pm
    Also affected are those who receive carer's pension/allowance + people on NewStart who have been retrenched from jobs and have been unable to get another one. Employers, although they are not allowed to discriminate, often have to train people for different jobs to what they have previously done - an expensive exercise for them considering many are aiming at retiring with in 5 - 10 years.
    cdbstock
    3rd Nov 2015
    9:27pm
    Do away with a GST & all taxes - introduced a 'transaction tax' - a small tax (app 4%) on every transaction - no exception - app 40 countries have it. No annual income tax returns, subsidies to low & middle income people (subject to an application with severe penalty for fraudulent claims),catch all internet purchases, no tax lawyers & tax accountants & staff, smaller ATO. Obviously there would be lobby groups representing lawyers, accountants ATO union, big business - & politicians would oppose it because It would not accommodate promises (eg to except education etc)- but at least it should be considered
    geomac
    3rd Nov 2015
    11:40pm
    I fail to see the connect of a higher GST and a reduction in company and income tax. The last PM together with Hockey locked in 80 billion of future funding for health etc to be removed from the states ie blackmail to agree to a GST hike. So if the states eventually agree its only to finance what the state is losing from the feds not tax relief for the well off.
    Why is it that the libs etc always cut public education and health yet find money to increase subsidies to private health and schools ? Both private health and education increase their fees over and above the CPI every year without fail.
    cdbstock
    4th Nov 2015
    11:59am
    Frank
    What's wrong with the people on this site? - a 'transaction tax' that replaces all other taxes, catches internet sales foreign investment purchases etc, does away with having to prepare/pay for annual tax returns, greater efficiency (tax lawyers accountants & staff, smaller ATO, fewer taxes - & 40 countries use such a systyem
    Adrianus
    4th Nov 2015
    12:49pm
    I'm really not sure? :)
    I think it's a wolf in sheep's clothing. 4% sounds small but when applied to every transaction and without imputed credits it could be an enormous cost to each of us. Are any of these 40 countries large economies?
    Pendrey
    4th Nov 2015
    12:26pm
    The GST is certainly an effective tax and if adequately compensated I would go along with an increase. One of the problems however of increasing the rate is that it gives a greater incentive for tax avoidance. Tradesman often offer a cheaper price for 'cash' payment. meaning that they get to keep the transaction off the books, and simply pocket the money.
    Adrianus
    4th Nov 2015
    1:01pm
    Pendrey, I agree. I think the black economy is mostly confined to the "battlers" though. A self employed person, earning less than $75k, does not need to register for GST. I think it could be one of the reasons small businesses which are registered have been in the doldrums.
    Anonymous
    5th Nov 2015
    8:45pm
    Actually, Frank, it's far easier for larger businesses to rort the GST than small business. Not being registered means you pay GST on all inputs to business, so you are still paying. Big business, however, makes excessive refund claims by listing many private expenses as business costs. No, the black economy isn't confined to battlers. In fact, few battlers have the means to participate in the black economy. But some very large businesses - typically those run by foreigners - work in the black area. I can't count the number of times I've been asked to pay cash and refused a receipt - always by very large business operators.
    Adrianus
    5th Nov 2015
    8:51pm
    Absolute rubbish! If that were the case I'm sure you would have made a call to the ATO. Unless of course you encouraged it.
    Anonymous
    5th Nov 2015
    9:14pm
    No. It's NOT absolute rubbish, Frank. I've called the ATO, Frank. They are simply not interested. Too many overworked staff with bigger fish to fry, and not enough evidence available to make pursuing the reported businesses easy.

    You, however, will NEVER accept that your precious rich friends could be responsible for the nation's woes. You just have to constantly bash the battlers.
    Pendrey
    4th Nov 2015
    1:59pm
    Folks this ia debate about the GST not the DSP, stick to the subject
    Patriot
    4th Nov 2015
    2:23pm
    After thinking about it, MAY BE there is some reason why we COULD lift the GTS to 15%.
    That is, as long as the conditions as outlined below are also implemented:
    1 Fully compensate (refund GST Totally & Unconditionally) those who are below the Taxable Income & live "Close to the Poverty Line".
    2 LIFT the "Tax Threshold for those in the "Top Working Class" & "LOW middle Class (that is if there still is one to be found)"
    3 Leave the tax System for the Middle Class "as Is" - Only Few will benefit (???) from this as there is virtually no middle class left!!!
    4 Dramatically Increase the taxes for those who are earning above say $90,000.00/year
    5 Abandon ALL superannuation (contribution) SCAMS for ALL Australian Tax Payers
    6 Stop the "Negative Gearing" SCAM completely
    7 FORCE multinational Companies earning money in Australia to pay TAX at the "Going Rate" in Australia without transferring funds overseas to avoid paying TAX!!!
    It CAN be done - it is the WILL to do it which is lacking. Funding Elections seems much more of a priority for our Politicians!

    Now, schemes such as these should allow us to buy many more Fighter Jets & Bombs from the USofA in order to ensure that their (USofA's) economy keeps going. Keeps them happy!!!
    It also will ANGER & ENRAGE many more Muslim (states) & individuals who will then loose their temper and start many more Jihadist actions and will terrorise more people which will make Australian politicians buy even more Fighter jets and stimulate the USofA economy even further.
    In other words, I can understand - BUT NOT CONDONE - why many muslims are feeling towards the WEST as they are! As I have said before, pester a dangerous animal for long enough and He/She certainly will eventually react and BITE!!!
    This - in turn - will make us live with an Increased level of fear so that we become even more controllable (By our Politicians) than we are already.

    This - in turn - will then ensure that the ever widening spiral of "Death, destruction, genocide & de-Humanisation" will continue forever.

    It certainly also will ensure that the International Bankster Criminals are happy & the NWOrder crew will achieve its goal and drive us ALL into slavery.
    cdbstock
    4th Nov 2015
    6:45pm
    Frank
    Tks for your interest - of course there has to be adequate compensations - cash payments to applicants with audited claims (eg unemployment, disability, family allowances, low income etc) - with substantial resourcing for auditing - & very substantial penalties for fraudulent claims. Re the over 40 countries - yes major economies incl France, Italy, UK, USA - but there are significant variations of a FTT - see wickipedia
    Adrianus
    5th Nov 2015
    11:45am
    cdbstock, I am in favour of a tax system which offers incentive for people to have a go. This current system has been in place since the taxman rode up on his horse asking for a donation. It has been tinkered with by successive governments to solve problems of the day, often created by governments, but without a view to stimulating sustained productivity and entrepreneurship.
    I have started doing some research on FTT now since you have mentioned it. It is not something I'm familiar with so I'll keep researching. It could be a viable solution for those continents which have weak border control with many neighbouring jurisdictions. Let's face it, that is Australia too with the globe becoming smaller. Thanks for that.
    Adrianus
    5th Nov 2015
    11:50am
    cdbstock, I found this interesting.
    http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/index_en.htm
    cdbstock
    4th Nov 2015
    6:57pm
    Pendrey
    Agree - a 15% GST will increase the back economy among other problems- a transaction tax (app 4% but let the Treasury people determine the rate) - see my answer to Frank here - that replaces all federal taxes would markedly reduce the black economy - simply not worthwhile sharing just 4%
    cdbstock
    4th Nov 2015
    7:06pm
    Pendrey
    You say the GST 'is certainly an effective tax..' - it is ineffective re the increasing internet overseas purchases & as you accept it produces a black economy even at 10%, It is also an unfair tax (regressive)

    4th Nov 2015
    7:47pm
    So, the government wants to raise the GST in order to fund tax cut for millionaires, and some folk here are saying it's a good idea? I wonder are they the same knuckleheads who supported changing the taper rate, claiming ''millionaires shouldn't get pensions''?

    Some people just have no idea when it comes to sensible economics.

    4th Nov 2015
    8:16pm
    Look around you. The policies government are pursuing AREN'T working. Economic problems are exacerbating. Experts are saying inequity is an increasing problem worldwide. It's driving social unrest and further economic downturn.

    Here's a novel idea. Take an objective look at change. Automation and technology has INCREASED profits for the privileged and raised incomes for the fortunate, but it's driven job losses and hardship for the less fortunate. So maybe it's time to make the fortunate pay more to give the less fortunate more. Lower the retirement age. Raise pensions for the aged and disabled. Increase benefits for single income families so more parents can afford to choose to stay at home with their kids if that's their preference. That frees up more jobs for the unemployed and puts more money in the pockets of those who consume most, thus driving economic growth and increasing tax revenue and job opportunities. Everyone wins, and it's a fair and just way because it makes those who derive most benefit from the nation's resources pay most.

    You can't get blood from a stone, and the policies of constantly taking from the have nots to give to the haves ultimately must destroy society. It can NEVER result in a healthy economy or a healthy society.

    Sadly, though, greed and selfishness will always win over common sense and sound policy. Don't hold your breath for any change that will benefit the nation. Start figuring out, now, how to exist on less, because it's inevitable you will have to - unless you earn more than $1 million a year and will be taking yet another $41,000 bonus from the pocket of battlers.
    Patriot
    4th Nov 2015
    8:47pm
    Rainy,

    Now many years ago, a bloke who has something to do with the "relativity Theory"summed all this up in "One Sentence":
    ". . . . . We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them . . . . . . ".

    I think has name was - Albert Einstein - or something

    I think that we'll have to wait till "Hell freezes over" before the CLOWNS in Canberra understand this though!!!
    CLOWNS is all these psychopaths (and that's being very nice) are for - if the situation was not so serious - it certainly would be extremely funny!

    4th Nov 2015
    10:15pm
    And for those who wrongly think welfare is a problem in Australia, please check your facts:

    - In OECD group, Australia's social expenditure is made up of:
    - 4.8% income support for working age population
    - 3.6% for pension,
    - 6.1% for health, and
    - 3.5% for all social services excluding health.
    18.1% total (including rounding error) of GDP.
    It is below the OECD average of 21.4%
    (source:
    http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/OECD2014-Social-Expenditure-Update-Nov2014-8pages.pdf).

    This means Australia is far from being a welfare dependent country as some politicians imply.

    OUR LEADERS ARE LYING TO US.

    WHY?

    TO DISTRACT US SO THAT WE DON'T NOTICE THAT THEY WANT TO THE POOR TO GIFT ANOTHER $2,000 OF THEIR LOW INCOMES TO FUND $41,000 TAX CUTS FOR PEOPLE EARNING $1 MILLION + PER ANNUM.
    Adrianus
    5th Nov 2015
    7:39am
    Oh ok. Thanks for that. I was worried that we wouldn't be able to afford another 12,000 on welfare next month. We could get another 20,000 on welfare to get us to the OECD average. Tell me again, why are we pursuing that target?
    Anonymous
    5th Nov 2015
    8:37pm
    Who said we were pursuing any target, Frank? The point is that our leaders are lying, and you, obviously, can't comprehend truth.
    Anonymous
    6th Nov 2015
    6:14pm
    Actually, Frank, maybe the government IS pursuing the target of another 20,000 (or more) on the DSP. By increasing the retirement age, especially with a massive job shortage, they are certainly guaranteeing a lot of folk who have worn their bodies out in heavy physical labour will be disabled well before age 70. And with no jobs for those who are retrenched after age 50, lot of them will decide to declare the ailments they've struggled to live with and claim DSP to avoid the dole. Can't say I blame them! In an age of technology and automation driving higher profits and less demand for labour, we should be REDUCING the retirement age and taxing those who gain by slashing jobs.
    Not Senile Yet!
    4th Nov 2015
    10:38pm
    Some of the comments on this site just prove that Both Parties are prepared to apply "Divide & Conquer" tactics because everyone is too dumb to understand them.
    Agreeing to any tax rise simply because Neither Party can BALANCE THE BUDGET......is not about not enough income tax.....it ALL ABOUT overspending.....both within the Parliament .....and on Defence (per head of Population...highest spend in any democracy)!!!
    Raising the GST is not the answer......giving a refund to retirees or pensioners is plain stupid....take and give it back one year later....come on!!!!!
    Their Budget costs have exploded because of the inflation caused by their failed policies and the ever increasing population....which by the way has also increased their tax income!!!!
    THEY are Lying to You!!!!!
    They have made cuts in expenditure left right & Centre only to Increase Expenditure on Defence (Planes Ships Armoured Vehicles and STOP the Boats and Off Shore Detention Centres Costing Millions to build & Run)
    You & I cannot balance our budgets by cutting costs and going on s spending spree....which is what BOTH Parties are guilty of!!!!!!
    NEW PM.....nice smile....well liked....BUT SAME POLICIES as Abbott......raise more tax and preferably from the Bottom feeders of the Pyramid!!!!
    More Cuts.....More Bleating about being broke!!!!
    But who is approving Billions on War Machines and increasing the Army, Air Force & Navy at the SAME TIME??????
    You cannot exempt a particular Group of people from GST....its all or nothing.....However you can Slash businesses from Claiming all their GST expenses......say keep 50%....and raise a large amount of tax!!!!
    But the Best Way is to Make ALL Businesses Pay a Minimum of 10-15%
    Tax on Profits to renew their ABN each year,,,,,this would allow leaving the GST ALONE!!!
    DaveL
    5th Nov 2015
    9:07am
    One of reasons the GST has declined in percentage terms is that people have learned to evade it. It was supposed to catch more of the black market, but it has added to it. Cash is King. Even off the shelf "Accounting software" does not account for any misunderstandings in applying GST. Tax Credits are being misapplied.
    The Tax Office should Audit more businesses to ensure compliance. Over time they have downsized the GST workforce. Bookkeepers in particular should have to be regulated in this subject, not a means of saving on wages. Many Auditors do not 'audit" clients GST intpretations, and re unaware of what they audit.
    buby
    5th Nov 2015
    11:58am
    i would have thought, it be best to cut 12%from every Person working IN government, that best cover everything, and the pensioners would not have to worry, and i'm sure they wouldn['t miss it much!!
    Happy Jack
    5th Nov 2015
    12:50pm
    Poor Mal on the John Fien show this morning- when asked for his DEFINITION OF FAIRNESS in respect of the implementation of a GST application retreats to his comfort of the court room where he is addressing the jury and giving us all a lesson on justice. Well, to waffle on about how we all have different interpretations and in the end not giving HIS is not nearly good enough. At least with ABBOTT and his four word slogans we got it straight down the line. That was of course until he broke more promises than the snake oil man. Well in the summing up of the jury Mal will be very foolish to take the seniors as first graders.
    Adrianus
    5th Nov 2015
    1:06pm
    OMG, I have just listened to a few of the speakers at the Economic and Social Outlook Conference 2015 held at the Melbourne Institute. Glenn Stevens was, as he always is, very interesting as he outlined the reasons or our current situation and emphasised his view on continued low global growth. Professor John Wanna was equally impressive with his views on budgetary formulation. Other speakers were also on song with identifying issues and offering thought provoking possibilities.
    Sadly Chris Bowen saw it as a traditional door stop with "Malcolm Turnbull" mentioned in every sentence. What a disgrace, what an embarrassment. This will cost Bill Shorten another 3% in the polls.
    How can anybody possibly see Labor as a solution?
    Peterrj
    5th Nov 2015
    4:30pm
    The bitter truth is that there is not enough tax money around to allow us to further sponge on the Govt coffers! We are a sporting nation yet we have almost 1 million adults on a Disability Pension and it takes 8 out of 10 taxpayers to pay for the Social Service bill??? Unfortunately taxes need to be raised to keep me in my life style that I currently enjoy. The joke is that I don't pay any tax .... Except for the GST ... That's a tax I can't avoid? Perhaps we need more refugees, get them to work and they will generate more tax money for my retirement years?
    Anonymous
    5th Nov 2015
    8:34pm
    Peterrj, you too have been conned by the politicians who have a vested interest in catering to the wealthy at the expense of the poor. The MYTH about the disability pension is just that. We have a very low social security cost - well under that of most OECD countries as a percentage of GDP. It DOES NOT take 8 out of 10 taxpayers to pay the social security bill. It's less than 18% of GDP and highly affordable. (The OECD average is 18% of GDP.)

    As for 1 million adults on disability pensions - I don't think that's a huge number in the scheme of things, but if it is excessive, we need to look at WHY they are disabled. Screaming about the cost of supporting the disabled is cruel and heartless. Do something about the causes of disability. One reason for so many on the DSP is that we can't provide enough jobs for people. Long-term unemployed are so badly treated that they either contract genuine mental illness in response or they seek some other way of claiming DSP to get off dole queues. This is particularly true of older Australians who have no hope of finding employment but can't get qualify for an aged pension. Many of them have nursed lifelong injuries and ailments or suffered work injuries in youth, but just got on with work while ever there was work available. Once disenfranchised, however, they might decide to claim the disability pension they were actually always entitled to had they chosen to declare their ailments - or their ailments may have worsened with age and stress.

    Raising the GST will increase costs and reduce discretionary spending by the majority of battlers, thus reducing currency circulation and economic growth and increasing unemployment. Check what happened when Greece raised taxes. It drove massive unemployment and further economic downturn that ultimately reduced total tax revenue.

    What we need is for the rich to pay their share of tax. Extra taxes on the wealthy won't reduce consumption because they already have more than they can consume. It reduces obscene levels of investment in superannuation, investment in negatively geared property (driving up housing costs), and investment in shares that drives dangerous market bubbles.
    Happy Jack
    5th Nov 2015
    8:11pm
    Well: there we have it- SORRY MORRIE with the bleeding heart on the 7:30 report believing that if he can spew out the words fast enough he can keep Leigh Sales from asking the testy questions and hoodwink the Australian voter. The one definite outcome on his views on reforming the economy was when he made the statements-: "we need to give a leg up to those who having a go" in effect the lifters not the leaners. Well; doesn't this bring back memories of the ANIMAL FARM where the worn out Mares and Stallions- read seniors and pensioners, who have done the hard yards in contributing to the wealth- yes the wealth- of this country, are now out of the mix because they are no longer physically able to be productive.
    Patriot
    6th Nov 2015
    11:53am
    Happy Jack.
    You've "got it Sorted".
    Good to see you can be happy about it!
    oldie
    6th Nov 2015
    11:37am
    There is always someone out there like PIXAPD - don't have a clue! If GST goes up so does electricity, gas, telephone. The pension never goes up enough to cover any rises in anything. One day PIXAPD I hope you or yours don't have to live like some people. We paid 45 years of taxes, sometimes very high taxes, to get our pension on retirement.
    Anonymous
    6th Nov 2015
    6:23pm
    Lucky you to get a pension, oldie. Lots of those who paid 45 years of taxes- sometimes very high - will soon lose their pension and be much worse off than pensioners, despite a lifetime of hard work and saving. But I agree, a GST increase would be a very bad thing for everyone - most of all for the SFRs, who will get no compensation at all.
    Jen
    6th Nov 2015
    8:41pm
    I think the GST might be the least of our problems:

    https://www.facebook.com/fightfortheftr/photos/a.296919493661517.71630.283481148338685/1040695509283908/?type=3&theater
    Auction Girl
    7th Nov 2015
    7:30am
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/big-companies-hiding-their-numbers-20151106-gksbpv.html
    This article says it all..... Until the government cracks down heavily on these rorters there is NO justification for increasing the GST.
    Jen
    7th Nov 2015
    9:26am
    And our governments are willing conspirators in these rorts. The people are their victims.

    21st century governments = wolf in sheep's clothing.

    7th Nov 2015
    8:10pm
    All those who supported or approved the GST increase proposal increase thinking the government needs the revenue, think again. Morrison has declared that there WILL BE NO INCREASE IN TOTAL TAX REVENUE. Any GST increase will be to facilitate redistribution - read, income tax cuts for the well to do. It has NOTHING to do with the DSP or the government not having enough money for welfare etc.

    Hopefully, those who approved the proposal will now wake up and add their voice to the opposition - unless, of course, they are among the selfish and greedy higher income earners who will benefit.
    Jen
    8th Nov 2015
    7:31am
    That's exactly what it's all about. Once again this government is selling us a pup. It amazes me how many say, "well, we need to balance the budget so we have to accept an increase in GST." Wow.

    The redistribution of wealth from the poorer to the richer continues at a rapid rate.

    And many people, including many on this forum, would happily vote for it. Our poor country. Our poor grandchildren.
    Fair Go
    28th Dec 2015
    8:40pm
    We may have one of the lowest consumption taxes in the developed world, but we also have one of the lowest government pension systems in the developed world (2nd from the bottom, only to the good old USA). Pensioners are already struggling with day to day expenses,let alone health costs, but lets give the middle income earners a tax cut art the expense of the pensioners. One thing about this govt, it always runs true to form, penalize the poor to help the not so badly off.