7th Dec 2015
Labor’s plans to beat union rorts
Labor’s plans to beat union rorts

Ahead of the much-anticipated report from the Royal Commission, Labor has proposed plans to stop union corruption. But is it too little too late?

Speaking on the ABC’s Insiders program yesterday morning, Labor leader Bill Shorten, announced that the party has a list of measures to ensure unions operate legally under tougher governance. Mr Shorten said on the issue, "There has been some evidence come out around the [Health Services Union] and one or two other unions, which to my way of thinking means we need to talk about improving governance".

With the Royal Commission report into trade union governance and corruption expected by the end of this month, Labor’s measures may take some of the sting out of the expected rebuff of the unions. The proposal includes: 

  • granting power to the Australian Securities and Investment Commission (ASIC) to investigate Fair Work Act breaches
  • increasing funding to the Fair Work Act to the tune of $4.5 million
  • lowering the election donation declaration threshold from $13,000 to $1000
  • doubling the maximum penalty for offences under the Fair Work Act
  • offering union whistleblowers the same protection as those in the private sector.

The changes would help prevent the system being abused by dishonest officials said Labor's workplace relations spokesman Brendan O'Connor. "We want to see strong, effective and honest unions representing working people in this country and so if there are — and we know there are a few — [unions] that have done the wrong thing, we need to detect that early," he said.

Read more at ABC.net.au 

Is this a move by Labor to take some of the heat out of the expected Royal Commission findings? Or is it best that the party acts of its own accord? Do you think Labor’s proposed reforms would be effective in curbing trade union corruption?





    COMMENTS

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    dstark
    7th Dec 2015
    9:55am
    Will the Commission find that Shorten was an unreliable witness, or worse?
    roy
    7th Dec 2015
    11:17am
    I heard somebody saying in the pub the other evening saying rumour has it that Bill Shorten is a love child of Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy fame, could that be true?
    Polly Esther
    7th Dec 2015
    1:41pm
    only if he calls him Dad.
    roy
    7th Dec 2015
    4:49pm
    He looks and acts so much like Stan Laurel that it has to b true.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    8:16pm
    Be careful John. It's a trick to make people laugh and when people are laughing they find it hard to be irate.
    Watto
    7th Dec 2015
    10:03am
    Labor is going to stop Union corruption ???!! I'd like to see that . Bit like asking Jack the Ripper to solve mass murders .
    In my working days I was subjected to many threats by union" heavies" , I still have some of it on tape .One even went on to become a Labor Heavy. Natural progression I guess .
    Let's revisit this problem in 12 months time and see if anything has changed.
    Shorten is a very weak man , never have I heard anyone speak with less passion in their voice . I don't think even he believes what he says .
    Rob
    7th Dec 2015
    10:56am
    Agree Watto. The labor movement has been running a smear campaign against the Royal Commission in an effort to distract attention from what is apparently going to be a damming report.

    The behaviour of some of these Unions is just not acceptable, Australia and our economy just does not need this type of behaviour.
    FrankC
    7th Dec 2015
    12:16pm
    I could not believe what I saw on TV the other night. Union members marching against one of their members being arrested for obstructing police or assaulting police. Do they think they are absolved from all forms of prosecution. I just thought when I saw the march what a lot of bludgers, doing anything to get out of working . These two comments above says it all, I feel.
    scratch
    7th Dec 2015
    12:33pm
    What, is this liberal party corner or something!? I have never heard so much biased drivel at the one time before!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    1:52pm
    It should have been obvious to even the most rusted on Lib Lover that the primary goal of the Royal Commission was to smear the unions and Labor.

    A pile of money to set up a mostly quiet police investigation would have been a lot more effective in identifying corruption, and a lot cheaper, but Abbott wanted the media attention the RC was guaranteed to receive.

    And before anyone attacks, I abhor union corruption.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    1:55pm
    Called Liberal Party stoolies/trolls scratch. Having listened to the ongoing harangues about union corruption (where's Frank?) we now see a move to end this and you have the same bunch of mindless people unhappy.
    Give it a break and now concentrate on WHERE the Liberal Party sources election funding (big business!!) and what the repayment terms and conditions are. Carbon Tax repeal? Killing off Banking legislation to protect investors? Tax cuts for the rich and big business?
    ABout time the stoolies came clean.
    roy
    7th Dec 2015
    4:54pm
    Scratch. You just keep the the red flag flying high Tovarich and keep that 'photo of Joe Stalin by your bedside,.
    roy
    7th Dec 2015
    4:56pm
    Scratch. You just keep the the red flag flying high Tovarich and keep that 'photo of Joe Stalin by your bedside,.
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2015
    9:17pm
    Mick, I have a problem with election funding. The amount allowed to be given to any parties by any donor has been capped and this was brought in by a Labor government. Where the disparity arises is that unions can run advertising in print and TV giving a message that is purported to be specific to that union and not adding a Labor logo. The ads are always anti Conservative but the costs are not included by the Electoral Commission as donations.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    10:47pm
    And what was the Murdoch Empire's non stop propaganda campaign? One sided lies and deceit. We all remember it. I just cannot believe that the electorate bought the "bad bad Carbon Tax" lie. And now taxpayers have to find $8 billion a year to make up for lost revenue....and our electricity prices did not more than halve as they would have if what was being claimed was true.
    Horses for courses Old Man. If it were me I'd cap election funding per candidate to $50 000 and threaten to put the media outlets out of business if they ran propaganda campaigns which could not withstand the scrutiny of courts.
    tj
    7th Dec 2015
    10:25am
    Cassidy certainly gave Shorten an easy ride
    Watto
    7th Dec 2015
    10:30am
    Not surprising , Cassidy is ABC ?!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    1:53pm
    Ah Watto, another person who hates the one truly independent media outlet we have.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    1:59pm
    So Shorten has not been under the microscope for the past year? And he had a case to answer after the government smear Royal Commission which FOUND NO WRONGDOING?
    Maybe concentrate on the big business owned and controlled media outlets (most of the media in this country) before slagging off at the ABC. We all understand that Abbott wanted to sell off the media so that there was no balance and so that honesty was buried under rhetoric...the mode of operation with most of the media.
    You are correct Barak. The ABC and SBS are close to the only HONEST outlets we have. That is why this government will not rest until it kills both off. I mean you wouldn't want to have a media which tells the truth would you? Same as this government. Inveterate liars run by despicable politicians.
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2015
    9:29pm
    100% correct tj. The big failure was when Shorten claimed that all of the announced 50 policies had been costed. Why didn't Cassidy ask him how much the climate change announcement is to cost and where was the money coming from.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    10:48pm
    Same reason maybe that Abbott was not asked to cost the repeal of the Carbon Tax or why electricity prices were going to drop and by how much. Different Parties. Same issues.
    Travellersjoy
    7th Dec 2015
    10:43am
    The good old Aussie fair go doesn't get much of a fair go in these comments pages, does it.

    What a miserable, hopeless lot of attitudes to the governance of our country. Does it explain how we got Abbott as PM?
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    2:01pm
    Understand some of these (unknown) posters are NOT the real McCoy. Putin has a whole army of trolls employed to debunk anybody who does not tow the government line. Apparently this government is using this model. I have said previously that Abbott posed a serious risk of becoming the nation's first dictator.
    roy
    7th Dec 2015
    5:26pm
    mick, I assume you mean toe the line, not tow but that aside why don't all you people with communists leanings go and live in Russia or North Korea and leave Australia to decent people. To call Tony Abbott a dictator c'mon that is so childish, time to grow up or at least make the effort.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    10:52pm
    And here it comes. When somebody disagrees with right wing corruption we get the "commi" comments. Surely the right wing trolls can do better than that.
    When Abbott wanted to flog off the ABC so that there would be no opposition to official government propaganda he had reached 'dictator' level. Sorry that your allegiance blinds you from the truth.
    roy
    8th Dec 2015
    9:13am
    Communists just do not like to hear the truth do they? Communism has never worked and never will so why don't you just give up?
    You sure do love that word "troll" don't you, do try to be a bit original.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    10:30am
    Communists?

    ROTFLMAO
    OlderandWiser
    7th Dec 2015
    10:51am
    Definitely too little - and at least 5 decades too late! Unions are run by self-serving bullies and while they have accomplished a great deal of positives for workers at times, they too often harm the workers' cause and look after the interests of union leaders rather than members.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    2:06pm
    Change never comes easy and it doesn't come quickly. Shorten has been after union reform since he became leader. That is one thing i have to give him. But then he is one man and change takes times.
    I think that the above are a good way to start. If ASIC has the power to act then people need to remember that ASIC is the regulator.

    What is really needed is A FEDERAL ICAC TO GO AFTER THE CROOKS on both sides. Do that and the Liberal Party will fall because of its money links to big business and the obvious conflicts of interest when (new) legislation is enacted FOR THE BENEFIT of specific big business organisations.
    disillusioned
    7th Dec 2015
    11:00am
    Yes it is terrible that some unions have rorted the system however most are well run by competent people with their members' interests at heart. Ask yourself where would we be without unions? We would have had John Howard's Workchoices stripping basic safety net provisions from workers. Penalty rates, sick leave, maternity leave, overtime etc would be gone. And employers are pushing for this now to make 'Australia more productive'. This is very shortsighted - by squeezing workers incomes that means less money would circulate through communities. It doesn't make sense..
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    2:09pm
    The Labor detractors and trolls are using the same BS as they tried on with the School Halls building program. Only a very few of the many projects were rorted. WHilst Labor should have ensured that the few which got through the net should not have it is not a valid argument to use these and make a conclusion about the rest. Same for unions which act corruptly.
    What is needed is better administration and independent audits to rat out the crooks, wherever they are.
    tactful
    7th Dec 2015
    11:33am
    Please, do the ALP (Labor Party) really think the public of Australia are so stupid as to believe them when they say they will force Unions to be more transparent and stop corruption.
    Only a fool would believe that!
    Labor is the Union movement, numerous PM's have come up through the Union ranks into the ACTU and then straight into politics.
    Labor would falter and be unable to run the campaigns they do, if it weren't for the funds they get from the Unions.
    Bill Shorten is just as corrupt as the Union movement he crawled out of.
    Unions will be corrupt until they have totally destroyed all industry in this country.
    FrankC
    7th Dec 2015
    12:32pm
    "PM......"into the ACTU straight into politics" Bob Hawke perfect example. Just thank god there isn't a Union for Real estate agents. They are quite capable at the moment sending this country down the gurgler, with their overpricing properties. On Better homes and gardens Friday night, the team spent around $7000 on a property, and the real estate guy said they had increased the value by $50K. What garbage, $50K. He was hoping for another $1500 in his pocket.I would have said around $15- 23K, but no more. But then the house sold for $600K!!. Didn't say where the house is !. And I see Ray White R.E are over in China offering houses for sale to the Chinese. They should be boycotted, for not looking after Aussies first and foremost. And if they buy a house here, how are they going to get here to live in it, find a job immediately and get a residential visa? No I will never do business with Ray White after that.
    FrankC
    7th Dec 2015
    12:35pm
    On reflection, increase would be around $10K to $15K. (that 23 was a typo error.)
    KSS
    7th Dec 2015
    1:19pm
    FrankC you can't blame the real estate agent for the stupidity of the buyer who agreed to pay $600,000 for the property. Real estate agents may 'value' a property but it is only worth what someone will pay for it.

    It is also true that some people are influenced by a few pot plants a new paint job and a tidy up inside and willing to pay more for the same property once these little things are done.

    I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong just that it is. You disagreeing with the eventual sales price of the property in question doesn't make the price paid the fault of Ray White (or any other agent). Blame the buyer if anyone!
    KSS
    7th Dec 2015
    1:19pm
    FrankC you can't blame the real estate agent for the stupidity of the buyer who agreed to pay $600,000 for the property. Real estate agents may 'value' a property but it is only worth what someone will pay for it.

    It is also true that some people are influenced by a few pot plants a new paint job and a tidy up inside and willing to pay more for the same property once these little things are done.

    I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong just that it is. You disagreeing with the eventual sales price of the property in question doesn't make the price paid the fault of Ray White (or any other agent). Blame the buyer if anyone!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    2:11pm
    tactful: are you trolling or did you not read the story?

    Did you not read the 5 pronged list of what unions were going to have to comply with. And NOT administered by unions or Labor Party.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    1:50pm
    Sounds like a good start. About time. Now we need the Liberal Party to come clean about ELECTION FUNDING and what they paybacks are get these. That is where the real issue of corruption lies and IT IS NEVER EXPOSED.
    Where's Frank? Always has accusations about Labor and never Liberal. What now?

    7th Dec 2015
    1:56pm
    To suggest this is "too little too late" reminds me of the farmer who, when the rains came after several years of drought, declared that it was too late to break the drought.
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    2:00pm
    "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan in accents most forlorn,
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    1:56pm
    "Labor has proposed plans to stop union corruption."

    Would anyone believe me if I said that I just saw a flying pig???
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    1:59pm
    Peterrj - What would you prefer Labor to do?
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    2:01pm
    Barak, I already have had more than one post removed, I dare not make it another!!!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    2:14pm
    So do you think that Labor or unions control ASIC Peterrj?
    How about big business controlling the Liberal Party/government? Is that worth a mention and is that worth investigation? About time I'd say!
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    2:20pm
    Where's Frank when I need him??? LOL!!!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    4:50pm
    "He'll be baaaaaaaaaack".

    7th Dec 2015
    2:08pm
    "Too little, too late" - ?! More like "Nothing, Ever"!!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    2:15pm
    ASIC is a government entity....not controlled by unions or Labor. So how does that equate to your comment?
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    2:35pm
    Read the first sentence in the article and you will have your answer.
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    2:51pm
    "Labor has proposed plans to stop union corruption."

    mick does not believe this is a factual statement ... and neither do I!! Looks like mick and myself have the same views???
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    3:29pm
    Nor do I.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    4:03pm
    Peterjj - Given what he wrote, your description of mick's position makes no sense.

    As for you and Fast Eddie, you might as well post nothing more than "I hate Labor".

    You haven't actually discussed the article, just shown yourself as a rusted on Lib lover.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    4:28pm
    Barak, so what? Everyone has a choice and if this is ours that is our business. You can assume whatever you want, that is your choice. Got it?
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    4:41pm
    Spot on Barak. We are seeing what looks suspiciously trolls at work. Not discussion.
    Good try to misinterpret what I wrote Eddie and co.
    If Labor is going to stump up I am prepared to wait and see where it goes. The posts from you two is little more than an advertisement from the Liberal Party worried that its favourite tool to demonise Labor may disappear.
    We'll see if Labor is fair dinkum. Fair minded people would hold fire and take a wait and see strategy rather than post some of the above sort of misinformation.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    4:54pm
    Fast Eddie - You're absolutely correct.

    You have every right to demonstrate that you are nothing more than a bad mannered, unthinking, rusted on, Lib lover. You could, of course, try to post something sensible to justify your position.

    I'm happy to wait.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    5:19pm
    Barak, you are of total insignificance to me and I don't have to justify myself to you or anyone of your ilk, whether they are under the same rock or another one. Please seek urgent attention for your malicious disorder and demeanour.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    5:59pm
    Fast Eddie - I suspect anyone with a different opinion is of total insignificance to you. It shows.

    It's not healthy to never consider a new idea.
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    10:59pm
    I suppose that we all could get together and have a drink would be out of the question??? Gee some of you blokes fire up like cracker night!!!!
    Swinging voter
    7th Dec 2015
    3:22pm
    Bill Shorten got rid of two Labor PM's so his waiting time was shortened. He's the former (still is) union boss who saw fit to hurl the F word at the pie shop lady just because she couldn't supply his kid with a pie on demand. What a rude, insolent man he is. Where there's smoke there's fire. By that disgraceful action, caught on camera, anyone would be forgiven for saying if he would bully an innocent shop lady what did he do when he had the power of the union behind him? I worked for a brief time in the branch office of a big union --- and did not like what I saw.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    3:59pm
    So you would have to be pleased with this proposal to clean things up.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    4:49pm
    Do you remember what Tony Abbott said to a Labor spokesperson after an interview was over when the female Labor MP thanked him for coming? Cameras still rolling. So lets make out the same case here Swinger.
    Swinging voter
    7th Dec 2015
    4:56pm
    Yes I would be pleased if they do clean it up but as is said in this article, too little too late will probably be the outcome. The unions are Labor and members' money is directed to Labor campaigns whether or not members are ALP voters. The only PM who kept the unions under control was Bob Hawke. As former ACTU Secretary, he was aware of the damage unions could do to his Prime Ministership and the Australian economy, and that's some of the reason I believe he was a long-serving PM. As much as he loved the union movement, he was intelligent enough to know they were politically toxic.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    11:15pm
    So where do you think Liberal Party funding comes from? The Tooth Fairy?
    If you wanted to compare apples with apples I think we'd all be totally horrified if we knew WHO was stumping up money from big business and WHAT IT WAS BUYING. Likely it would be given the title of corruption on steroids. And the mainstream (business owned) media does NOTHING. That is the real crime!
    don
    7th Dec 2015
    3:30pm
    WHAT i WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS THE FEDERAL POLICE INVESTIGATE THE POLLIES AND THE UNIONS , THERE WOULD BE NO BIAS AND PLENTY IN THE CLINK. tO me the Royal COMMISSIONS ARE A WASTE OF TIME.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    4:47pm
    And I would like to add to your list a Federal Police investigation of the link between big business and the Liberal Party and whether or not election funding is actually a BRIBE to get policy outcomes. This is where the real action is.
    P$cript
    7th Dec 2015
    3:33pm
    From my experience Unions don't even register on the corruption scale compared to businesses!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    4:44pm
    You have an in depth understanding of the true facts. Whilst the Liberal Party trolls keep putting information out there to blacken the opposition's name there is NEVER any mention made of the HUGE amount of corruption which goes on between big business and the incumbent government. The repeal of the Carbon Tax alone is costing taxpayers $8 billion a year. Compare just that one issue with any perceived corruption within unions. Chalk and cheese!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    5:03pm
    don't you love it, hearing the labor trolls squeal when their labor and union mates are getting caught with their hands in the till, seeing the comments, labor troll mick must have organised more labor trolls, amazingly the new faces in this column!!!!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    5:06pm
    It's always fun to be seen as part of a conspiracy.

    I'm not rusted on to any party. I just enjoy making fools of those who are, and who cannot coherently justify their position.

    (Throwing mud is not coherent.)
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    11:17pm
    Looks like they let the government trolls out again. ANybody who doubts it should google the words 'Putin troll factory' to see what we have here.
    You can't even be original heemskerek...or is it Frank. Who would know. Really.

    7th Dec 2015
    5:23pm
    barrak, not rusted on, I believe you, you are welded on the labor machine!!!!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    5:27pm
    heemskerk, just ignore him, he's not worth your time or effort.
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    5:57pm
    heemskerk - I have explained my position on this matter. You haven't. You have simply regurgitated the dogma that Labor and unions are bad.

    THAT is what rusted on means.

    Simply throwing that expression back at me is very un-clever.
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    11:05pm
    Hey heemskerk99, I got a chuckle!!!! It must be getting close to Christmas, Ho, Ho, Ho!!!

    7th Dec 2015
    6:06pm
    must have touched a few sore points with the labor trolls fast eddy and barrak
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    6:29pm
    Huh?

    Haven't voted Labor since 1980.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    11:19pm
    Understand 'heemskerk' is not the real McCoy. A waste of time responding to the cash for comment you get from this troll Barak. Like you I haven't voted Labor for many decades but keep getting the brain dead comments from this troll.

    7th Dec 2015
    6:35pm
    barrak that is what your master troll, labor mick tries to tell us every day!!
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    6:40pm
    You're right about one thing heemskerk. I don't post here often. A couple of questions....

    Why are you so rude.

    Why label everybody in such simplistic ways despite them making quite explanatory posts?
    Peterrj
    7th Dec 2015
    11:15pm
    Barack, please don't go away as you are a laugh a minute!!! You accuse heemskerk99 of being rude?

    Then this must be you being polite, 'You have every right to demonstrate that you are nothing more than a bad mannered, unthinking, rusted on, Lib lover. You could, of course, try to post something sensible to justify your position.'

    Trouble is I am not 100% sure who you we're talking about??? I can't wait for your next example of Christian Politness!!!!
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    2:52am
    Peterrj - I have given reasons for my views. heemdkerk hasn't. He has just ranted.

    I am neither an ALP voter nor Christian.
    Peterrj
    8th Dec 2015
    10:28am
    Hey Barak ... By any chance, would you be Barak Hussein Obama?
    Peterrj
    8th Dec 2015
    10:44am
    Barak, you have twice stated that you have given reasons for your views. I can't find that post?? Unless you mean your comments of 'It is obvious ...', 'Oh Dear' and 'Huh' are your well thought out views? Yeah, those words are pretty persuasive and mount a logical argument.
    Peterrj
    8th Dec 2015
    10:48am
    So sorry Barak, I missed the central theme to your reasons for your views ... being 'Weird' and 'Yawn' .., now it all makes sense!

    7th Dec 2015
    7:15pm
    barak, I hope you asked super troll labor mick for permission to make these comments, fast eddy, the labor lieutenant already has warned you, any comments against their believes will be deleted, after all, who do you think who is running this site?
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    7:21pm
    Oh dear.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    11:20pm
    Pretty sad isn't it.

    7th Dec 2015
    8:10pm
    barak, tapped on the shoulder?
    Anonymous
    7th Dec 2015
    8:31pm
    Weird.

    And he probably gets to vote too.

    7th Dec 2015
    9:06pm
    barak, at least I am able to vote for whoever, that is the difference with labor trolls the likes of you, labor mick, fast eddy, etc. shortie is not looking over my shoulder to see who I vote for, ah you could be as happy as me if you just had the guts to become independent instead of being a labor stooge
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    2:50am
    Yawn
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2015
    9:35pm
    Our courts regularly deal with people from all walks of life who have embezzled from their employer. How this is allowed to happen invariably comes down to a lack of supervision over the person involved. They are caught when audits are conducted and the crime is uncovered. All that the Government wants to do is make unions accountable under the laws that govern registered companies.

    Now we see that Shorten has made an announcement that he will clean up the unions I smell a rat. Could it be because there is a Royal Commission report about to be issued? Why won't he support what is considered a reasonable oversight on the unions?
    Chris B T
    7th Dec 2015
    10:01pm
    If Bill Shorten is the Best That Labour can find to be there political leader, well good keep him.
    This is a person who only has self interest at the forefront. Just ask Rudd and Gilard, a bit of flotsam just the same as the unionist he was representing before the move to politics.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2015
    11:25pm
    Shorten is a dead loss. On that we will agree. You do yourself no credit when it comes to Gillard though because she got heaps of legislation through which was in the national interest. The way the media treated her was deplorable. So how many lies did Abbott tell. Never saw a 'he lied' campaign. Strange that.
    You need to be more discerning in your comments Chris. By all means attack the political party you dislike but stick to the facts. History will judge Gillard quite differently to our first would be dictator which followed.
    Chris B T
    8th Dec 2015
    12:45am
    Please reread what I said.
    You will find I said nothing To What You Are Going On About.
    Bill Shorten Treated Rudd And Gilard as well as Unionist as Flotsam.
    So where are my so called comments about Gillard.
    Is This The BEST THAT LABOUR Can Do, Shorten as there Political Leader.

    Now, Gillard With The No Carbon Tax. (Thats A Black Lie) or was that a blackeye from the electorate.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    2:55am
    Chris - do consider the difference between a lie and a broken promise.
    Chris B T
    8th Dec 2015
    8:47am
    There will Be No Carbon Tax Under My Government, the words flow easy out of the mouth to achive what ever it takes.
    The same result. Both are to deceive.
    I'm not Trolling This Site for some mischief or placing myself above anybody else.
    Grammar and spelling mistakes need, Trolls to Police what else would they have to do.
    roy
    8th Dec 2015
    10:15am
    "Our first would be dictator", dear oh dear, shakes head.
    You left the troll word out of your posting, what happened mick?
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    10:28am
    A sign of a would-be dictator is trying to silence independent media outlets. Now, have a think about Abbott and the ABC.

    Doesn't matter what you think of the ABC. Think about that action. If you say the ABC deserves to be silenced, you're on the side of the dictator.
    roy
    8th Dec 2015
    10:47am
    Please tell me more Komrad Barak as to how Tony Abbott tried to silence the ABC.
    roy
    8th Dec 2015
    10:48am
    Tovarich Barak, I forgot to ask if you still have the 'photo of Joe Stalin at your bedside.
    roy
    8th Dec 2015
    11:14am
    Dear Komrad Barak, I have busy day in front of me in spite of being happily retired so will have to leave you and mick, have a happy verbal diarrhoea day as you usually do.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    5:43pm
    Chris you are right about that. Shorten has always been the Union's man in control of the ALP. He was the one who struck the deal with Rudd, that he would win the election then stand aside for Gillard. When Rudd dug his heels in refusing to go Gillard immediately phoned Shorten for advice on her next course of action. Shorten was parachuted in by the unions to lead the party. Only his parliamentary inexperience has stopped him from leading the party until now.
    Rudd was at 37% in the polls as preferred PM when Shorten and Gillard knifed him because he was unpopular. Shorten is now at 15%.
    Where is every one who opposed Shorten?
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    6:01pm
    Frank - because of the negativity that surrounded changing leaders too often, the ALP made it much more difficult to remove a leader.

    Of course, that was when the Libs were aggressively attacking Labor for changing leaders. They have now lost a little credibility on that front themselves.

    The ALP needs Bill to see the light himself and resign, so someone more electable can take over.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    6:08pm
    Barak, you know that is not going to happen. He could become Labor's longest serving opposition leader. I think they need 75% of caucus to change the Rudd rule. Then they will need a majority to vote for another candidate. But he will need to be a union boss to stand any chance.
    Chris B T
    8th Dec 2015
    8:13pm
    So after all the chatter we will keep Bill Shorten, the best ALP political leader since Whitlam.
    What an excellent leader he was, Shorten reads his Diaries and Memoirs for guidance. Also The Drover's Dog exerts for backup.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    8:16pm
    Chris B T - does that post actually say anything apart from "I hate everything to do with the ALP"?

    I suppose we have to accept the existence of rusted on voters, but if they had any brains, they wouldn't show themsleves so clearly here.
    Chris B T
    8th Dec 2015
    8:32pm
    If you had any dealings with Shorten, you would find him as sincere as the rubbish you throw at me.
    Keep Shorten AS YOUR FAVOURED LEADER.
    What is RUSTED ON ABOUT THAT.
    I REALLY HOPE THEY KEEP HIM as he exfoliates with his TROLLS.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    8:35pm
    Shorten is no favoured leader of mine. I just can't stand irrational hatred posts like yours.

    They can only come from someone who has never contemplated voting anything but Liberal.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    8:41pm
    Barak, no, those sort of feelings expressed by a few on here are probably what 85% of people are thinking. I don't know anyone who admits to a Shorten liking.
    Chris B T
    9th Dec 2015
    8:29am
    Barak
    I dislike both Liberal/Nats and ALP/Greens.
    None represent the electorate, self indulgence and party/factions is all they understand.
    What is irrational is TROLLS SUCH AS YOU, making about 25% of the crap replies on this site.
    If you can't STAND then sit or lay down, turn the computer off and have a rest for a while.
    Anonymous
    9th Dec 2015
    8:32am
    Oh well, I seem to have got one thing right. Irrational hatred.

    What DO you like in politics?
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    9:12am
    Barak what a buma.
    Can I ask the question again?
    Where is every one who opposed Shorten?
    Australia will reject the sort of bully tactics which exist in Russia. What happened to the opposition leader opposing Putin? This is not the Australia we want.
    Someone once said "ideas are more important than men."
    I think because ideas or ideals will outlive people. We are just the messengers, we are not the enemy. Your enemy is the ideas which oppose your logic or your list of idioms which you have chosen to hang onto throughout your life.
    We are not the droids you are looking for.
    Anonymous
    9th Dec 2015
    12:41pm
    In a conversation it's polite to acknowledge and respond to what others say.

    That post did neither.

    8th Dec 2015
    11:20am
    The changes were announced by Brendon O Connor whose brother heads up the MFEAU .. They have to think we are mugs.
    Shortens popularity Is now almost as low as Union Membership.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    6:55pm
    Pete, I'll tell you what is really odd. Watching Bill Shorten doing a door stop talking about innovation. His idea of sending money to Australians who had to go to California to get their start-up started, in the hope that they will come home. Bill, they left for a reason!
    Or this other "you beaut idea" that they're doing in the UK. Or "that great idea" being used in the USA.

    synonyms for innovation: change, alteration, revolution, upheaval, transformation, metamorphosis, reorganization, restructuring, rearrangement, recasting, remodelling, renovation, restyling, variation;

    Does this sound like Labor? The party of big ideas?
    Am I being too hard on Shorten's Labor? I suppose mick will let me know if I'm being too tough.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    7:06pm
    Frank - you do seem obsessed with finding fault with only one party.

    Do you really believe the Libs have everything right?

    Did you know that some Abbott lovers called Turnbull a communist?
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    7:21pm
    Barak, I don't want to sound like a "know it all" by pointing this out to you, but I feel obligated. If you look to the top you will notice the heading of this piece by Debbie McTaggart is "Labor's Plans to beat Union Rorts."
    It is not "Names Abbott lovers call Turnbull."
    I'm not saying stop what you want to discuss, just saying this is why I'm posting about Shorten and the unions.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    7:43pm
    Hmmmmmm. Could be true. But I'm sceptical.

    Do you see anything positive at all about the ALP?
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    8:11pm
    Positive? You mean positive for Australia? Or positive for the Union movement?
    The real positive for the Unions is that there are still 15% of people who think Shorten would make a good PM. After the trashing they gave us for those 6 years that is a good result.
    For Australia I don't see anything positive, not with this Labor/Union gang. If they say the word innovation in every sentence for the next 12 months then hopefully they will learn something about the meaning and apply it.
    Let me tell you, leadership is more to do with showing the way than giving people directions.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    8:13pm
    Thought so.

    There really is no point you ever commenting on the ALP again, is there?

    Pure hatred. It's quite irrational, you know.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    4:24pm
    Debbie, you're cracking me up!! ha ha ha ha ha. I have been laughing so hard I can see my six pack again.
    What was that again....." Do you think Labor’s proposed reforms would be effective in curbing trade union corruption?" HO HO HO ha ha ha ha!!! I cant stop.
    Thanks for the laugh. I really needed it :)
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    5:19pm
    To paraphrase: "I hate Labor"
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    5:46pm
    Hate? I wouldn't say that. I just don't like communism.
    I suppose you think Bill Shorten has developed a sound strategy for dealing with his bosses?
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    6:03pm
    Communism?

    ROTFLMAO.

    I don't know what your last sentence means.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    6:10pm
    The Bill Shorten Strategy.

    •granting power to the Australian Securities and Investment Commission (ASIC) to investigate Fair Work Act breaches
    •increasing funding to the Fair Work Act to the tune of $4.5 million
    •lowering the election donation declaration threshold from $13,000 to $1000
    •doubling the maximum penalty for offences under the Fair Work Act
    •offering union whistleblowers the same protection as those in the private sector.

    By the way, what is Shorten's record when it comes to whistleblowers?
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    6:18pm
    Those five points in your "Bill Shorten Strategy" all sound sensible to me.

    8th Dec 2015
    7:36pm
    Comment removed
    Anonymous
    9th Dec 2015
    4:50pm
    Why was my comment removed

    9th Dec 2015
    4:55pm
    Above is the post removed why?
    Forum Moderator
    9th Dec 2015
    5:02pm
    You have been sent a private message answering your question Pete.

    10th Dec 2015
    3:45pm
    Shonky Shorten - what a joke! How come he never tried to pull the rug from under Craig Thomson? And he himself - what a 'magnificent champion' of the working class he has shown himself to be! Shorten? Short on integrity, for sure!
    Adrianus
    10th Dec 2015
    3:58pm
    Big Al, we cannot under any circumstances let Shorten become PM. Labor must not get a chance to destroy this great country. At least Shorten was honest when he said they have run out of messiahs. He could have meant that in the biblical sense to garner more west Sydney support, but my interpretation was that he may have been thinking of the way Whitlam, Hawke and Rudd swept all before them. All were high spending high taxing but it was Rudd who almost brought us to our knees.

    10th Dec 2015
    4:05pm
    Short -on (sic) Short on talent; Short on ethics; Short on ideas; Short on backbone; Short on credibility; Short on opinion poll support; Short on voter appeal; Short on......
    Adrianus
    11th Dec 2015
    8:25am
    I detect a little honesty from Bill Shorten?
    His position has moved from "this is a witch hunt" to a beer coaster plan to thwart union corruption. This would be so funny if it wasn't so sad. :(


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