GST increase good for pensioners

New research suggests that pensioners will be better off under proposed changes to the GST.

GST increase good for pensioners

Research released this week by the Grattan Institute shows that an extension of the GST to cover a broader range of goods, or an increase in the GST rate, would be beneficial to those receiving government payments including the Age Pension.

The modelling shows that extending the GST to cover a broader range of goods would raise $17 billion per annum, while increasing the GST rate to 15 per cent would generate $27 billion per annum in revenue. Both changes, on face value, hurt low-income households disproportionately.

The solution to this, proposed by the Grattan Institute, is to spend roughly 30 per cent of the raised revenue on increasing the base rate of all welfare payments including pensioners, family benefits and Newstart by five per cent. The modelling also ensures that most households earning up to $100,000 are compensated for at least 75 per cent of the cost of the higher GST.

This would see an increase in the GST to 15 per cent, raising $11 billion for the Turnbull Government after increased payments and tax tradeoffs for poorer households are taken into account.

"People in the bottom 20 per cent would actually be in a better position than they are today," said Grattan Institute Chief Executive John Daley. "They would have more money to spend and after accounting for the GST, they would be able to buy more with the income they have than they can today."

Read more from www.abc.net.au
Read more from www.smh.com.au
Read more from www.grattan.edu.au

What do you think? Do you believe the modelling? If you were to trust the modelling, would the suggested changes to the GST have your approval?





    COMMENTS

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    ParraPete
    8th Dec 2015
    10:08am
    Once again self funded retirees get shafted - no government payments means no recompense for GST changes and no benefit from changes to tax rates for lower income earners. Would have been better off not scrimping and saving for a comfortable retirement and just become a burden on the deficit for the next 20 years!!
    thommo
    8th Dec 2015
    10:41am
    lower income earners would benefit from increased family tax benefits,whatever rate they are when the gst rises,which it must!
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    10:43am
    Yes ParraPete. Screw those who were responsible and planned, worked, saved and invest - but tell Australians that they need to work, save and invest to fix our problems! Doesn't make much sense, does it?
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    10:44am
    Self-funded retirees MUST write to politicians NOW to protest this unfairness and point out that recent taper rate changes combined with falling investment returns mean that many will be ground into poverty by GST changes if they are not also recompensed fairly.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    11:20am
    Hang on...........here we go again.
    The government is in debt and there are plans to raise $27 billion with a GST on basic commodities like food which WILL AFFECT THE POOR quite disproportionately. Its intention.
    Can somebody explain HOW a government in debt can hand out $1200 a month on top of current base rates? Somebody has to pay.
    This is a scam! Likely that this dishonest and deceptive government is playing the shell game: give 'em cash and increase taxes to pay for it.
    The end game is that the poor are going to GET LESS. Never any different from right wing governments. And if people believe that the Grattan Institute is 'independent' then all I can say is look who appointed its members in the past 2 years and find out where it gets funding from. Unless I miss my guess I'd suggest both are from the current government. Sounds to me like corruption at work.
    johninmelb
    8th Dec 2015
    1:16pm
    Mick, what's this $1200 you are rabbitting on about?? There is no mention of any $1200 in the article, and no-one has ever suggested anything like that.

    The article says that Pensioners et al, might get a rise of 5% to cover the increase in GST by 5%, ie, cancel each other out. At that rate I would get an extra $35 a fortnight over my current part pension payment. Nothing like $1200.

    Try checking your facts before mouthing off about things you don't understand.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    1:49pm
    "Could you imagine the Government popping $1200 dollars in your bank account each month? Well, the Finnish Government is proposing just that, in a move that would scrap all social benefits. It’s not so far removed from the proposal by the Grattan Institute, which would see all those on welfare payments receive an extra five percent to offset the increase in GST."

    Ditto!
    johninmelb
    8th Dec 2015
    5:26pm
    Forget about Finland, it's not relevant to Australia.

    It's never going to happen here because we simply cannot afford it. End of discussion.

    Stop dragging irrelevant rubbish into the discussion, and address the information set out in the article.

    If you are not happy with the current government - and neither am I, then stand for parliament AND FIX IT. Sniping from the sidelines does nothing to solve any problems we pensioners face.
    niemakawa
    8th Dec 2015
    7:52pm
    All those of pension age should be entitled to a basic State Pension and a health card regardless of income or assets. Self funded retirees are an asset to Australia as they have not only paid a larger share of income tax during their working lives, most would have had Private Health Insurance but are less reliant on Government services in retirement.
    niemakawa
    8th Dec 2015
    7:52pm
    All those of pension age should be entitled to a basic State Pension and a health card regardless of income or assets. Self funded retirees are an asset to Australia as they have not only paid a larger share of income tax during their working lives, most would have had Private Health Insurance but are less reliant on Government services in retirement.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:30pm
    I agree with you niemakawa but the rich DO NOT NEED CONCESSIONS because they will have a good retirement either way.
    When you permit wealthy Australians to launder their money through the superannuation system as currently happens then you create class warfare. The man in the street views such behaviour as little more than the rich raping taxpayers. It is!
    Pat
    8th Dec 2015
    10:09am
    This looks good except for the self funded retirees. We have already lost significantly with change to the asset cut offs. This would add further loss as there does not seem to be a way of compensating SFR.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    10:44am
    Write to politicians NOW protesting this unfairness and pointing the impact.
    LiveItUp
    8th Dec 2015
    6:40pm
    Self funded retirees will have to claim this. Have you ever tried claiming anything from the government? If you can get through their required paperwork no mean feat you may get a few pennies thrown your way. Better to just not pay it in the first place.
    Rae
    9th Dec 2015
    8:23am
    Bonny how do you just not pay GST. As a SFR I paid Carbon Tax but never claimed the rebate because of the difficulty you suggest. Not sure how you avoid GST short of setting up a LLC which would mean starting a business of some type. If you have another way I'd love to hear about it.
    bartpcb
    8th Dec 2015
    10:11am
    By what process of twisted logic does anyone, let alone the Grattan Institute, come to the conclusion that by increasing a pensioners cash in hand by 5% while at the same time increasing the cost of the goods the same pensioner has to buy by 15% gives the pensioner more money to spend. Since when has Grattan played the semantics game? Oh that's right, when it became a Sales Rep for the Liberal government!!
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    10:49am
    How do prices increase by 15%, bartpcb? The GST increase proposed is 5%. I agree, of course, that the overall impact is likely to be much greater than 5% and when inflationary pressures are taken into account, we'll all be worse off over time. It's obvious! The government can't GET more unless the populace get LESS.

    Worst hit, though, will be self-funded retirees - particularly those affected by the recent UNFAIR taper rate change, which saw them losing up to $14,000 a year on top of the massive loss they've sustained through investment rate falls, and leaves many couples with incomes of less than $25,000 per year. Don't suppose ACCOSS or the Greens will stand up for the victims of the unfair changes they lobbied for? Oh, that's right. They only hurt ''millionaires''. What BS!
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    11:30am
    Rainey: there is currently no tax on most foods. Don't know about you but most people spend a fair bit of their income on food.

    bartpcb: I think you'll find that the Grattan Institute is just another arm of the Liberal Party.
    This government just keeps on coming at poor and average Australians. Never changes. Anybody with double digit intelligence would understand that the above article is talking nonsense because the net position will be that everybody other than wealthy citizens will get less. As with everything coming from this government the rich are to be rewarded and the rest of us are to pay our way into slavery. It is what it is.
    ray from Bondi
    8th Dec 2015
    12:34pm
    here here, another report weighted in favor of the government, we would not have heard about it otherwise, and there is an old saying never as for a report if you are no confident of the outcome, what vested interest does the gratten institute have??. One thing I have leaned in my old age is that when the government says it is good for yuo run as fast as possible, they are only interested in "The Trought", if they wanted to save money how about government for once tightening the belt and getting rid of government levels that are not out of date, that will never happen, put a politican out of work, what a novel idea
    Renny
    8th Dec 2015
    1:25pm
    Rainey - the government could get more money by stopping handouts to already wealthy, the superannuation rorts, diesel fuel rebates to miners ( happy for farmers to continue getting it), bringing back the carbon tax which was proven to be more effective than the current joke, and forcing companies and churches to pay the tax they should. PAYE workers are the ones paying for this country and keep getting slugged. Why does anyone on $250,000 need help with Childcare - honestly. The wealthy of this nation are its leaners. And just wait for the rorts under innovation policy. More free handouts to their mates. The govt is a crock, and a lying one at that.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    1:52pm
    And lets not forget about the $75 billion a year lost because multinationals are permitted to launder their Australian income. Something you or I would not be allowed to do. But this is what happens in reality and I for one demand that the ELECTION FUNDING BOOKS ARE OPENED to see if this government is committing fraud on a national scale by selling absolution from our tax system in exchange for election funding.
    Old Man
    8th Dec 2015
    2:30pm
    @mick, I agree with you about multinationals but I am at a loss as to how to overcome the problem. They buy their goods from Japan etc. through a tax haven such as the Republic of Ireland for, say, $10Aud, sell the item to Australia for $100Aud which is then sold in Australia to consumers for $101Aud. Profit of $90 in ROI is tax free, profit of $1 in Australia is taxable, less the costs of sales, so they are avoiding tax, not evading it.
    Can we ask the multinational to restructure their business? Can we stop them trading in Australia? Of course not. If anyone out there has a solution, I will be glad to hear it.
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    2:46pm
    Mick and Everyone Else: Go to the website of the Gratton Institute to the "About Us" section and you will see how it was formed. It was formed in 2008 (one year after Labor's Kevin Rudd was elected).
    There is more than what I wish to say here, but in 2008 it was formed in response to a widespread view in government and business that Australia needed a non-partisan think tank providing independent, rigorous and practical solutions to Australia's most pressing problems.
    Mick - see my other comments in my post below.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    3:50pm
    Have a look at the Board of the Grattan Institute. They don't get more right wing than some of these people. That pretty well rules out independence. I'd be thinking that this is the reason why this government keeps calling on 'opinion' from this group of people.
    I'm sure the Labor government which set up Grattan did not intend it to operate this way. I also remember that Labor under Rudd gave equal numbers of overseas ambassadorships to BOTH sides of politics. Since coming to office this government has to my knowledge only given its side of politics such positions.
    Sorry Mitzy, but it should come as no surprise that Grattan is another right wing tool. When you stack the Board with your cronies you always get what you want.
    Sceptic
    8th Dec 2015
    7:09pm
    Yes mick, the Grattan Institute prime movers in setting up were the well known people of the right Bracks and Brumby. Excuse the sarcasm.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:35pm
    I spent half an hour looking into the background of the current Board. Yeah right sceptic!
    SuziJ
    11th Dec 2015
    10:35pm
    Rainey, GST is NOT on bread, milk, eggs, raw vegies, fruit, fresh meat, bottled water. We pay GST for 'ready' meals, pizza, snack foods, all drinks other than water and milk, all food from take aways, restaurants, etc.

    The previous governments, when introducing the GST made a promise to not tax the above GST-free goods.

    If we buy the above 'fresh' foods and cook for ourselves, then we won't have to pay out any more.

    VAT in the UK is 20%, New Zealand is 15%, Canada is 15%, so we in Australia are fairly fortunate that it has been 10% for over 15 years.
    sexeebear
    8th Dec 2015
    10:16am
    not only were what are now deemed self funded retirees shafted throughout their working life by taxation now they will be again disadvantaged by this proposal.. wasn't worth it but who'd have known the spin the govt gave it at the time..
    in my opinion we should abolish all taxation and in mean all not keep some and lose some like the original gst and make our economy gst income only based .. that way all pay all taxes
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    11:31am
    The solution is VOTE THIS CREW OUT!
    old-age worker
    8th Dec 2015
    10:25am
    What a load of LNP-supporting rubbish!
    1: The Gratten Institute exists to justify what the LNP wants.
    2: Do the maths! Us oldies are well versed in maths - we had to do it at school. We can work it out!
    3: It has become increasingly clear to me that this site has an LNP flavour. Whether they think they are playing to an LNP-biassed audience, given our age, or maybe just yet another LNP news outlet?
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:37pm
    When you look at the current Board, complete with Lucy Turnbull to keep an eye on things, you sort of have to come to that conclusion.

    8th Dec 2015
    10:32am
    The word "would" is used throughout this article, this alludes to the scam, er, I mean scheme, being simply a proposal. If you one moment you think anything will be approved and put into effect to benefit the Aged Pensioners' financial "plight" you are sorely naive. The only think this, or any other government, is interested in is enacting legislation which will benefit them and their greedy lifestyles. They get the mine, we get the shaft.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    11:31am
    The solution is VOTE THIS CREW OUT!
    Polly Esther
    8th Dec 2015
    11:44am
    yes but, all the 'crews' screw; us as it happens.
    wish they'd screw themselves.
    Sorry I'm turning to vulgarity now, but just about fed up.
    niemakawa
    8th Dec 2015
    8:17pm
    The problem is that ,as has happened throughout the Western World, the people have given away their rights, to Governments. In exchange for a "just" society we now have dictators in charge.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:38pm
    Yes. And guess who 'owns' many of our leaders and MPs? It certainly for the most part is not society by and large.
    Peterrj
    8th Dec 2015
    11:37pm
    Polly, "all the crews 'screw'."! That's the best line I have read in YLC for a long time!!!!
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    6:49am
    mick your answer to everything is get Labor back in. :(
    niemakawa
    9th Dec 2015
    7:17am
    Frank, how laborious that would be.
    Peterrj
    9th Dec 2015
    7:32am
    i think that it would be a labour of love!
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    3:47pm
    Frank: my answer to Liberal Party deceit is VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT...but not one whose preference goes to the current government.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    4:08pm
    mick, I'm sure you would have a valid reason for feeling as strongly as you do about the LNP. I hope that Australia doesn't get too religious about politics. It's good fun to have a little banter, but one shouldn't take it too serious. I never was much interested in politics until the Union/ALP made life almost unbearable for me. Then I made it my business to try to understand why. I still don't know. I guess it's like some of those religious wars that have been going on for centuries. Some of us think we understand but how many of us can really justify the continuity of "us against them."
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    4:36pm
    Banter is fun. Agreed. But there is right and wrong and morals. This is where we are at loggerheads. Whilst I may defend Labor from the unfair and dishonest posts which appear I HAVE NO LOVE OF THE BRAND and I do not vote for either side. But I have said that before. Many times.
    As I have frequently said to you...stay with the facts and the truth and do not gild the lily and we will get on. Post troll comments and it's on.
    Don't laugh...but I am a very peaceful sort of guy. Just hate corruption in all its forms....no matter who or what side of politics it comes from. You could do worse Frank.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    5:17pm
    So then you are happy that the TURC is uncovering plenty of corruption in unions? That's good mick, at least we can agree on something. :)
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:36pm
    Frank, Frank, Frank........... The TURC was set up to smear Shorten in precisely the same way a Royal Commission was set up to knife Rudd and Gillard. A well worn path. We all need to see these for what they are: expensive political strategies to gain votes.........and the bill sent to taxpayers.
    TURC only got a few low level scalps. Well done but not worth the huge cost to all of us. The one thing that will/is coming out of all of this is that Labor is going to have to clean up the problems which exist in SOME unions. A welcome outcome.
    If you want to unearth true corruption I'd suggest you start with the financial/contractual arrangements between the Liberal Party and big business. We are talking amounts of money which defy belief which deliver policy outcomes in exchange for election funding.
    WHERE ARE THE REAL JOURNALISTS???
    Paddles
    27th Jan 2016
    1:39pm
    Mick

    " We are talking amounts of money which defy belief which deliver policy outcomes in exchange for election funding.
    WHERE ARE THE REAL JOURNALISTS???"

    You have displayed, ad nauseum, how well informed you are on the nefarious dealings of the LNP. Does not your sound knowledge base extend to the type of journalists who would relish your input? If it helps, I could probably furnish some names in the Fairfax stable, or perhaps the Guardian who would absolutely welcome access to your "dirty deeds diary".
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    11:09am
    This is the Gratton Institute's thoughts process not the government's. Probably people relying on the aged pension and no other income support could be no better off and in the same boat as self-funded retirees or worse.
    The Gratton Institute indicates the best way would be to BROADEN the GST to cover fresh food, health and education which is currently not taxed, but if the government found this too difficult then raising the GST to by 5% to 15% would be the second best option?
    Would single pensioners on the current rate of $867 per fortnight receive an additional 5% on that amount or would they receive the increase on the BASE RATE of the pension?
    We all know how "very well we faired" when we received compensation for the carbon price on our electricity accounts and how we would be better off when it was rescinded!
    You can guarantee there are some hidden factors here somewhere, there always is.
    When did a proposal like this ever benefit the "real" taxpayers of this nation or those on pensions and fixed incomes? This will benefit the high income earners more than anyone. As far as I see it, 10% GST when it was introduced in the Howard era was to stay at 10% permanently as each year with rising incomes etc. etc. that 10% increases. Whatever it raked in years ago, it is certainly raking in more today. What is happening is it is not being managed diligently, and governments of whatever persuasion just can't budget it properly.

    No, leave it as it is and target the "tax avoiders", safe tax havens, etc. etc. The bottom end is sick to death of being targeted, no wonder the low income earners can't rise from the ashes. The "majority" of them toil away to keep their heads above water and the moment there is an economic downturn they are the first to lose jobs and then they get condemned for being bludgers on welfare. The more change there is, the more it all stays the same.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    11:32am
    Please explain who appoints members to this so called 'institute' and who funds it???? The current government? Apparently so from what I have read.
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    2:35pm
    mick: All I was indicating was that this publication from the Gratton Institute is their thinking and not the current government's. The government is gathering (as is always the case regardless of who rules) thoughts from various sources.
    If we are not to become over cynical and bitter about governments in general, we have to assume that the wording on the website of the Gratton Institute is genuinely what they are about. Namely they state: We are independent, rigorous and provide practical solutions to Australia's most pressing problems.

    Gratton Institute Governance Structure:

    An independent body governed by a Board of Directors that provides strategic direction. Directors are appointed by a council of members whose advice is sought but who do not otherwise influence the direction or publications of the Institute. Gratton Institute directors come from leaders in business, academia, government and the law.

    The members of the board are:

    Allan Myers AO QC (Chairman)
    Queens' Counsel; barrister since 1975
    Professor Glyn av AC
    Vice-Chancellor, University of Melbourne
    Geraldine Doogue
    Journalist and Broadcaster
    Chris Eccles
    Secretary, Department of Premier & Cabinet (Victoria)
    Professor John Funder AO
    Snr. Fellow, Prince Henry's Institute of Medical Research at Monash Medical Centre
    The Hon. David Kemp, Former Minister for Education, Training & Youth Affairs and for Environment and Heritage
    Mr Andrew Mackenzie BHP Billiton Chief Executive Officer
    Mr Peter Scanlon, Chairman, Taverners Group and the Scanlon Foundation
    Lucy Turnbull AO
    Chair of Prima Biomed Limited and Deputy Chair of the Council of Australian Governments' City Expert Advisory Panel
    Dr Ian West, Previously Secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

    There is a full list of members who have made donations to assist the Institute to function and provide this type of paper to the general public and/or governments to digest. Other sections on their website indicate who does the work for payment and who does unpaid work. They ask for donations and suggest $50 to be a member for every 12 months you care to do so. Many of the members donate a lot more.

    Their programs are:
    Productivity Growth
    Budget Policy
    Health
    Energy
    School Education
    Higher Education
    Transport & Cities
    Australian Perspectives

    As you can see the board members are well versed in the areas of their expertise.

    The rest of my submission was basically in disagreeance with the report.
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    2:51pm
    P.S. The second listed should read:

    Professor Glyn Davis AC

    I have a habit of typing faster than my keyboard wants to transfer my thoughts.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    4:14pm
    Good information Mitzy. I had a bit of a fish and the list below hardly looks real 'independent' to me. Sounds like a whole pile of people who have right wing affiliations with Malcolm Turnbull's wife Lucy there to keep an eye on proceedings and proably drive the agenda. I wonder what that might be.

    1. Myers - businessman
    2. Patricia Cross - director, banking, top 10 ASX companies
    3. Glyn Davis - education
    4. Geraldine Doogue - reporter
    5. John Funder - medical research
    6. David Kemp - ex Liberal Party MP
    7. ANdrew Mackenzie - ex CEO of BHP
    8. Peter Scanlon - successful investor, on BRW rich list
    9. Andrew Tongue - public service
    10.Lucy Turnbull - wife of PM directing traffic?
    11.James Watt - secretary to Abbott government

    I hardly think that the Grattan Institute can claim to be be independent.
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    4:28pm
    A very good mix of experience there mick! Better than a team of union bosses?
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    4:37pm
    Mick: Lucy Turnbull joined the Board of the Gratton Institute on 17 December 2012 and her particular passion it said was for how Australian cities are planned, managed and governed. I guess this stems from her stint as Sydney's First Female Lord Mayor. When I was reading extracts from various sections of the Institute's website I noted that the original funds to start it up came from the Federal
    government and the Victorian government in the form of an endowment in equal proportions and to keep it honest(?) BHP Billiton also funded. The funds were in the form of an endowment which were invested and the Institute commenced its beginnings as an independent think tank from the income of the investment plus a lot of other donations from all walks of life.
    I do recall in its early beginnings with Michelle Gratton it was known as a left-wing set-up I guess because it was formed in the Kevin Rudd era but long prior to that it was Steve Bracks (Vic Polly) and Peter Costello (Lib Polly) who started discussions on it as far back as 2005.
    It would be nice to think we do have some "independent" think tanks! There are quite a few of them around stated to be "independent" but maybe at times we can pocket that word and render it to whatever way we think.
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    5:18pm
    mick: I wouldn't want to go through all of the board of the Institute, especially this late in the day, but Allen Myers is a Barrister; Academic; Businessman; Landowner; Philanthropist. Have a look at his profile and his philanthropy. To classify him just as a businessman seems a bit unfair. I would hope people think of him as a worthy participant on this think tank. Mick, I didn't see the name of Patricia Cross on the page showing the members of the Board of Governance Structure?

    Frank: I guess from the time of its inception there has been many participants within the Gratton Institute from all walks of life and industry, maybe even union bosses.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:25pm
    I think you are painting a rosy picture Mitzy. If I saw these people all in one room then I have no doubt whose interests would be served. There are only a couple whose interests are not big business orientated.
    Peterrj
    8th Dec 2015
    11:41pm
    Mitzy, give up, mick is right, he is always right about everything!
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    4:38pm
    Never say I am right Peterrj. Just point out of I have the facts wrong....and then point me to your facts. Pretty basic. Really.
    Peterrj
    11th Dec 2015
    11:33pm
    OK mick, I'll take up the challenge but you won't like the result!!!!!

    mick, your not right, you are never never right, so there!!!!

    The basis for the proof of this assertion is none other than yourself and that's a pretty good authority (in your own mind) ..... "Never say I am right Peterrj".

    Did I mention that you won't like my answer??? LOL mick, LOL!!!
    Katie
    8th Dec 2015
    11:27am
    Govt needs to stop focusing on personal taxes and start taxing foreign corporations operating in Australia and rorting our tax system. Govt also needs to GROW profitable
    revenue-generating govt businesses - to replace the revenue they lost by selling off our profitable utilities like Airports, Roads, Banks, Railways & Ferries. ComCare is a perfect example of profitable govt utility that is being held back from expanding and making more money for taxpayers.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    11:33am
    Yes and no. Whilst you are correct this government needs to stop going after those with the least disposable income whilst giving their rich constituents tax cuts.
    ray from Bondi
    8th Dec 2015
    12:36pm
    here here, but then who is really running the counrty, the government that is only allowed to tinker around the edges or big business with all the money.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    1:53pm
    I think that the answer to that is clear. As I keep saying.......FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL.
    Katie
    8th Dec 2015
    11:27am
    Govt needs to stop focusing on personal taxes and start taxing foreign corporations operating in Australia and rorting our tax system. Govt also needs to GROW profitable
    revenue-generating govt businesses - to replace the revenue they lost by selling off our profitable utilities like Airports, Roads, Banks, Railways & Ferries. ComCare is a perfect example of profitable govt utility that is being held back from expanding and making more money for taxpayers.

    8th Dec 2015
    11:32am
    The Grattan Institute is merely a right-wing organisation that believes taxes need to keep on increasing on average workers and low-income people - while company taxes need to be reduced to bugger-all - in line with all right-wing thinking.

    I've got a simpler plan. Instead of continually increasing taxes and placing ever-higher tax burdens on average working people and retired folk - let's make Govts reduce their profligate spending to the level of income they currently get!

    Every tax move by any Govt is always about increasing their take, so they can add more layers of bureaucracy, more legislation, more petty regulations, and bigger troughs for their snouts.

    I can recall when GST was introduced, it was going to be a fairer and simpler system.
    The exact opposite is now the case. As compared to the old Sales Tax Act, the GST laws and regulations are now at 3 times the level of the Sales Tax Act complexity.

    The Sales Tax laws took up a couple of thousand pages, the GST laws are now reputed to occupy close on 6 thousand pages. There are pages and pages dedicated to pathetic, hair-splitting, individual GST divisions. This alone must cost us a fortune in administration.

    A fairer tax system would be a simple 1% tax on all transactions - including foreign currency dealings by banks, which contributes absolutely nothing to Australia's economic wealth, but which make hundreds of millions in fat profits for banks.

    Banks, along with other rat-cunning corporate entities, never pay a fraction of the tax paid by people on wages or retirees - because they utilise thousands of crafty accountant-lawyers to manipulate the multitude of tax laws so they pay only a pittance in tax.

    A simple flat tax on transactions require no GST laws, no hair-splitting over what is taxed and what is not, and no way to avoid that tax via dubious profit-shifting schemes dreamed up by cunning lawyers.

    The Govt would get adequate income, bureaucracy would be minimised, and you would only pay tax in relation to the amount of money you handled.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    11:36am
    Glad to have some clarification as to who 'owns' the Grattan Institute and in whose favour it works. The real question is WHY does this government keep coming after the poor and leave the rorts and tax avoidance behaviour of the rich unattended to?
    ray from Bondi
    8th Dec 2015
    12:36pm
    here here, I agree wholeheartedly.
    Franky
    8th Dec 2015
    1:14pm
    Agreed, Aaron! This is what Pauline Hanson talked about and by the response she received from the media and government you can see that the chance of this happening is nil. Sad, but for the moment it's a fact.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    1:55pm
    The big end of town and its government are powerful allies who protect their own interests at all costs. And that includes the future of our country. This is why financial interests in politics and the rich need to be severed. Until that happens nothing will change.
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    3:19pm
    And the Gratton Institute was formed in 2008 (in the Rudd era) in response to a widespread view in government and business that Australia needed a non-partisan think tank providing independent, rigorous and practical solutions to Australia's most pressing problems. Go to the Gratton website and read the "About Us" and other sections.
    Eliza
    8th Dec 2015
    3:38pm
    Aaron ... I will echo all that you have sent ... when are you running.
    You've got my vote
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:39pm
    Mitzy: the point is not when it was formed. The point is WHO currently controls it. When you look at the Board that is a no brainer.
    Peterrj
    9th Dec 2015
    12:06am
    Aaron, of all the radical ideas expressed in these posting found in YLC yours is probably the most outrageous by a country mile.

    I will repeat your YLC heresy: "Let's make Govts reduce their profligate spending to the level of income they currently get!"

    Wow, by that do you mean that a Govt is NOT to spend more than it's total income???

    That would mean a drastic reduction in welfare payments and that includes the Aged Pension!

    I can't see any Polly (no not you Polly) adopting this radical financial proposition! No, we will keep on spending beyond our financial means as a nation and be in party mode until the Grimm Financial Reaper arrives and then, but only then, will those left look back and lament that your suggestion was not adopted by our political parties!!!! Of course mick would disagree!
    Anonymous
    9th Dec 2015
    2:26pm
    Peterrj - I am personally not against some deficit spending. Deficits are necessary - the same as businesses need overdrafts for working capital - for periods when the economy needs stimulation, or for when major infrastructure projects are being undertaken, that add to the nations wealth and efficiency.
    Where the problems arise, is when large deficits are seen as a permanent feature of the financial landscape, and politicians continue to spend like there's no tomorrow, running ever-bigger deficits.
    We have precisely the same problem with Shire councils. My suburban council is relatively debt free, and is reluctant to fund expensive projects with dubious benefits. As a result, we enjoy low rates and modest rate increases.
    The adjoining Shire council spends like a politician on a pork-barreling election tour - and the ratepayers of that Shire have to fund a huge deficit with high rates, and rates increases that are regularly above the average rate increase.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:41pm
    Gentlemen: take out WASTE and POLITICAL REPAYMENTS FOR FAVOURS as well as ILL THOUGHT OUT POLICIES and you save humongous sums. Then COLLECT TAXES from those you have the means to avoid them with profit shifting, tax shelters. trusts and superannuation rorts and you have a solution.
    The problem is that both sides are bad in government, are not responsible to taxpayers and think they are God. Oh yes....the current lot are rotten to the core and do not give a tinkers for average citizens. Wait for the tax breaks for the rich. Coming!
    Adrianus
    10th Dec 2015
    9:37am
    Our interest bill alone on government debt is $14b pa. We need to find that and some more to pay down the debt, without stifling economic growth. The budget is in such a mess and any attempt at repair is being sabotaged. This government was handed a budget in chaos. The extent of the mess was exemplified by outgoing Labor thinking the deficit was $18b, but treasury figures revealed the deficit was $48b.
    The massive borrowing and spending to get us in this position is clearly not adding revenue and therefor should be regarded as waste, but that's another unhelpful line of discussion.
    The question is what to do ?

    Shorten has said given the opportunity Labor will borrow their way out of debt and deficit.

    Some suggest we should tax the haves more and give it to the have nots. Others suggest that only high income earners should be taxed more on top of the budget repair tax they have already been burdened with. There's a call for a tax increase on those saving for their retirement with Superannuation. Increased taxes on Business? Crackdown on tax avoiders? Reduction in spending, including welfare spending. A GST increase? A rearrangement of our tax system?
    Something tells me that we are at a watershed moment in our history.
    We can at least take some comfort knowing that the big issues are being discussed seriously by COAG.
    I see the outcome as being one of 3 results.
    1. A small tweak.
    2. A moderate tweak.
    3. A major reform. Not only of our tax system but including (and not limited to) Budget formulation reform.
    I will let others speculate on the speed bumps to progress?
    MICK
    10th Dec 2015
    1:52pm
    Still the blame game Frank. If Treasury says that the deficit was far higher than expected then WHY DID THEY NOT SAY SO AT THE TIME? Of course the question begs if this government has cooked the books and instructed Treasury to release dodgy figures as well. So let's shelve the one sided blame game.
    I do note you fail to mention the humongous amounts of money the current government has wasted and misspent as well. Some things never change.
    Peterrj
    11th Dec 2015
    11:48pm
    Aaron, "Where the problems arise, is when large deficits are seen as a permanent feature of the financial landscape, and politicians continue to spend like there's no tomorrow, running ever-bigger deficits."

    It may be obvious to some but can you indicate if we are in his deficit situation now or are we yet to reach that situation?

    What is your prediction when, if we haven't already, achieved this deficit state?

    Finally, how does one try and avoid the deficit state you speak of???

    Yes, I get your point about the benefits of 'some' deficits.
    maxchugg
    12th Dec 2015
    11:16am
    Don't forget the HR Nichols Society either.
    It is simply amazing how the wealthy rigorously maintain that most workers are overpaid, under taxed and underworked, while they are the very opposite.
    Joe Hockey is a classic example. We need to be lifters, not leaners, he told us. We should wait until 70 to retire on a pittance which the government can't afford, then he retires at 50, gets a dream job in the US, and will struggle to survive on around half a million a year.
    Then there is the current head of Australia Post, who, in 2014 was paid - I didn't say earned - $4.8 million a year for running a business that is dysfunctional, reducing service and raising prices so that its demise is inevitable, which might be the objective, to prepare the way for more privatization.
    The logical question of how the head of Australia Post gets around ten times the salary of the Prime Minister is consistently avoided, for obvious reasons.
    And the CEO of Australia is small fry compared with the CEOs of banks.
    All of which is a severe warning about privatization, so loved by Liberal governments. Had the Commonwealth Bank remained in government ownership, the government would have retained the ability to control the rorts and ripoffs for which the banking sector has become notorious. The competition could have been fully aware that, for example, when official interest rates fell, the Commonwealth would pass them on in full, so they would fall into line or go out of business.
    Peterrj
    13th Dec 2015
    12:35am
    maxchugg, is this the Aust Post person you refer to??? "Fahour is the federal government's best-paid employee. In the year to June 2013, his remuneration was almost $4.8 million, compared to the prime minister's $507,000. In 2014, he pocketed $4.6 million, but it could have been much more: he passed up the opportunity to take home an incentive payment, instead asking the Australia Post board to donate $2.85 million on his behalf to the Islamic Museum of Australia, an institution founded by his brother. In the latest financial year, when Australia Post lost money for the first time in more than three decades and Fahour announced that close to 2000 jobs would be axed, he undertook to share the pain by forgoing another bonus of more than $2 million."

    Sorry, what is you point exactly???? This chap has 'denied himself' considerable income payments???
    TREBOR
    8th Dec 2015
    11:45am
    Firs of all - pensions and NoStart are social security and not welfare.... welfare is handouts and protection of the innocent, and I will not subscribe in any way to the propaganda move that implies that pensions etc are a handout and are thus discretionary. They are bought and paid for rights.

    Now we can talk.

    I've long advocated that abolition of the GST as a waste of time and energy and a direct imposition on those least able to afford it, and as an imposition of income tax in lieu on those who formerly paid none. Our entire taxation system needs a massive overhaul and simplification into a few easy to follow strands... accompanied by a requirement on government to show clearly why when where and how its spending is justified.

    Bribing me with a 5% rise will not remove the reality that the GST will impact on others - many less able to sustain it than I - and is thus nothing but - to me anyway - a sneaky way of garnering my support while chopping others.


    Not on, I'm afraid.
    Phil1943
    8th Dec 2015
    11:54am
    Sorry pensioners, self-funded retirees and everybody else. If the Grattan Institute or any other Liberal party funded think tank concludes someone other than big business will come out ahead from any tax fiddling it will indicate that a problem exists and more work is needed. The pollies are out to screw the people and channel more of what's left of Australia's wealth into fewer and fewer outstretched hands at the top of the income scale. By all means, let's vote the current crop of grubs out of office, but there's no guarantee the next lot will be any better.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    12:31pm
    This government needs to be voted out ASAP. I hope that people remember!
    ray from Bondi
    8th Dec 2015
    12:38pm
    here here.
    johnp
    8th Dec 2015
    12:39pm
    The other lot are even grubbier. Funny how people always seem to believe that Oppositions have all the answers. Fact is they don't. If they did, wouldn't they have made a better job of governing when they were given the chance?
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    1:57pm
    So vote for Independents and send a clear message to both sides. The absolute worst the electorate can do is vote for the 2 major Parties this is the reason why the country is going down the gurgler. Not rocket science. Just basic psychology.
    Supernan
    8th Dec 2015
    11:58am
    If the Gov just stops the tax concessions on people putting moey into their own personal super, the deficit would be gone. If they also taxed millionaires who currently pay no tax, stopped transfer of profits between high earning companies to associated low earning companies to avoid tax, then Gov would have a Surplus.

    Family Trusts are also used to spread income between family members. So instead of one person earning a high amount & paying high tax on it, the income gets split over a number of family members. With each person earning lower amounts, less tax is paid on the same amount of money.

    Trusts can buy the Family home, claim all the Interest, Rates, Ins, Repairs as Tax Deductions, buy cars & run them. How the Trust actually works depends on how its set up. But the result often is people live in a home owned by the Trust, so all the cost of the home are claimable on Tax through the Trust. Whereas if you own your own home, none of these expenses are claimable.

    The rich get rich & the poor get poorer as always ! GST is no exception.
    Anonymous
    9th Dec 2015
    2:28pm
    Spot on, Supernan!
    Peterrj
    11th Dec 2015
    11:52pm
    Supernan, sorry, but these all sound like motherhood statements.
    Rosscoe
    8th Dec 2015
    11:59am
    What a load of hogwash! I really need a 5% increase in my taxes like a I need a hole in the head. Getting sick of this LNP propaganda and advertisements from this website!
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    12:37pm
    This government reckons we all need 2 holes in the head.
    Personally anybody who votes for Liberal at the next election must have a hole in the head and must be happy with what will come if this crew gets back in. The best time to act like vandals is immediately AFTER an election. Frightening.
    johnp
    8th Dec 2015
    11:59am
    I'm just thankful the Government hasn't yet cottoned onto the fact that, in the UK, the GST (called VAT over there, but same thing) is 20%. My wife and I went over there this year and everything was plus 20%. Now that REALLY hurts!
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    12:39pm
    Not sure about the tax mix in the UK. Perhaps you enlighten about personal tax rates and indirect taxes (fuel, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.). As with most things the devil is in the detail and always worth comparing apples with apples.
    Sceptic
    8th Dec 2015
    7:12pm
    Nothing to do with exchange rates johnp?
    lindy
    8th Dec 2015
    12:09pm
    I dont believe this for 1 moment, at the moment food is exempt
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    12:40pm
    That is what this bunch is wanting to do: increase the GST to 15% and broaden the base (ie., no exclusions).
    MITZY
    8th Dec 2015
    5:43pm
    The Gratton Institute suggested the government BROADEN the base of the GST to cover food, health and education, but if the government was loathe to do this (which the Institute thought the better option) then the alternative would be to leave the base as is and raise the GST by 5% to 15%.
    I guess if you BROADEN the base then you can keep on broadening it to include more and more areas as time goes by.
    That's why I said above that I didn't agree with any of it, because the only one that benefits from change is the government of the day. Whoever is in government Labor or Liberal it is a constant grab for more taxes to cover their incompetence to budget. As Mick says, vote for an Independent. Unfortunately, where I live we don't have one!
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:42pm
    You just do not get it Mitzy. The Gratton Institute suggested whatever the government wanted ............ and the governments wants to tax average Australians to death so that it can hand the rich more generous tax breaks. Not rocket science.
    MITZY
    9th Dec 2015
    11:46am
    And Mick, you were there "a fly on the wall". And, today, the Liberals are putting the 5% GST increase to 15% in the "too hard basket". So much for the Gratton Institute's perspicacity.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    12:49pm
    It's a conspiracy MITZY. An elaborate plan put together by those opposing the Independents who vote Labor. :)

    This country will find it increasingly difficult advance Australia fair because of political positioning.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:08pm
    ?????

    Leave the booze till later in the night Frank.
    Peterrj
    11th Dec 2015
    11:58pm
    mick, for once, I just may just take your advice!

    Yep, just did and it tastes so gooood!!!

    Thanks mick!!!
    VJ
    8th Dec 2015
    12:36pm
    No, I don't believe the modelling and don't believe we will be better off. Not a self funded retiree but agree it is unfair to penalise those people. I scrimptd and saved also but still could not afford to be a self funded retiree.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    12:41pm
    The whole issue is a LIE. The next in a long line from this malicious dishonest pack of big business funded MPs.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    12:47pm
    mick, did you know that this is all a Labor conspiracy?




    (just razzing you up, she don't get upset)
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    1:59pm
    Not upset as I do not vote Labor. That sort of comment is what comes from the right wingers on this website who refuse to confront the facts. Not sure where you stand Eddie.............you strike me as being a fence sitter.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    2:30pm
    mick, I can give you a definite maybe on that one. Keep smilin'.
    Sceptic
    8th Dec 2015
    7:14pm
    Isn't your claim to vote independent with first preference Labor not really a vote for Labor mick?
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:44pm
    Correct Sceptic. That does not mean I support Labor. What it means is that I would prefer to see a good Independent get up, but failing that I DO NOT WANT MY VOTE GOING TO THE CURRENT CROOKED BUNCH WHO HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THAT AVERAGE AUSTRALIANS ARE ON THE MENU.
    I hope that clarifies my position.
    Peterrj
    9th Dec 2015
    12:23am
    If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck. mick, I think that you have made your position clear,very clear about 1000 times ie. You will not vote for the current Govt and you will not vote for an independent whose preferences would go to the Govt.

    Do we really need to read that in every posting by you????
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:10pm
    Sorry to bore you. I am a bit worried about some of the right wing posters. Not sure that I have gotten across. Thanks for the confirmation.
    Peterrj
    12th Dec 2015
    12:05am
    mick, I got your message the first time. Reading it another 1000 times got a little bit repetitive and way way way all too predictable!!!!

    If it looks like a duck ... Confirmation, yes it is indeed a duck!

    8th Dec 2015
    12:42pm
    It would have been better to have given the research money to Monash so they could make yet ANOTHER earth-shaking discovery, like smoking is bad for one's health.
    Franky
    8th Dec 2015
    1:12pm
    There is no incentive here to become a self funded retiree, but instead they want us all on government benefits. Why? Is it maybe that they have control over us if we depend on them? Would it not ensure the continuation of the two party system, especially if there is bi-partisan support? There seem to be conflicting noises coming from Canberra - as usual, and we are left guessing....
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    1:33pm
    Franky, I think you are getting pretty close to it. With dependence comes control and this is what the government wants - a totally dependent and subservient populace. Anyone try to get ahead in life in an HONEST manner is stifled by government red tape, licences, taxes, levies, etc, etc. It is only the very well-heeled who are able to "contribute" to authoritative bodies to turn a blind eye, bend a rule or regulation, etc, etc who will accumulate wealth, and NOT the average hard-working person.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:03pm
    It appears to me that this government in the short term wants us all to spend everything that we have. Apart from this freeing a lot of money (which will go straight into tax cuts for the wealthy) it will take the pressure off government who can then waste humongous more taxpayer money. As one commentator said last night the mining boom was one big party for Australians. Making retirees sell everything would be one big party for the government.
    The end result would indeed be CONTROL.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    2:34pm
    Precisely, mick, that is exactly what they want - a puppet populous with the government pulling the strings.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:47pm
    Seems to me that this already exists. Not many thinking voters out there or voters who give a damn about who giving their vote to a Party which has demonstrated for 2 years that it is going to tax the poor and give to the rich. I mean how simple can one be????
    Renny
    8th Dec 2015
    1:15pm
    And bad luck to f your self funded and on a low income. If they want people to help fund their own retirement maybe they need to be fair. But hey they all think we earn as much as them. Fall for it if you want. I don't.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:05pm
    If you follow the money trail you will find the winners and losers. Average citizens under right wing governments are always the loser. Expect to see all the (lying) rhetoric come about about "creating jobs', 'repairing the budget" and more. These are Abbott style slogans and the truth is far removed from the slogans. Its called a con!
    Renny
    8th Dec 2015
    1:18pm
    And the last compensation deal for those on benefits was eaten up by price increases within a year or two. Screw the poor, screw the people who paid more than their fair share of tax all their lives (never earned enough to avoid tax in any way). The average working Australian gets done over again. Damn the right wing.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:06pm
    You know what to do about it. Spread the word. Make others understand the game. Only by voting out bad governments (based on fact, not propaganda) can one achieve a harmonious society.
    Peterrj
    9th Dec 2015
    12:32am
    Renny, I think that you and Polly have something in common?
    Dollars over Respect?
    8th Dec 2015
    1:49pm
    The devil is in the detail. Show us the detailing in the modelling...! People on low incomes are having a hard enough time trying to afford private health insurances, home insurances, car insurances - (3rd party insurances in particular!), telecoms charges and fees, replacement of essential white good appliances with limited use-by dates. These 'non-essentials', are already relegated to being unaffordable 'luxuries' especially for pensioners with little superannuation - through no fault of their own mostly). In addition to impacting such expenses the 15% increase is to also be applied to food now! Anyone recall the slogan "Vote Mal, Eat Pal"?
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:11pm
    They'll dolly it up, lie, deceive, manipulate and do whatever they can to achieve the end result.
    This is where readers need to be very careful of the commercial media as the bias which the right heaps on the ABC through its commercial media outlets is nearly always that what should instead be applied to the media interests which serve the big end of town.
    The Liberal Party and media owned or controlled by rich interests cannot be relied on to tell the truth or indeed the full story. They often don't. So you get a lot of propaganda mixed in with tit-bits of 'news'.
    Eliza
    8th Dec 2015
    2:01pm
    The modelling also ensures that most households earning up to $100,000 are compensated for at least 75 per cent of the cost of the higher GST.
    So I don't think you can whinge about self funded retired people ... it looks like they will benefit to a nice little tune ... $100,000 per year is a lot of money, especially when there are not the expenses of growing family and mortgages.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:13pm
    Believe that and you'll be talking about the Tooth Fairy next Eliza. Sorry.
    Do you remember when Enterprise Agreements came in? They were very very generous. Heaps of Australians took them up. And now? Gotcha!!!!
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    9:43pm
    How will self-funded retirees benefit, Eliza. They don't pay tax so they won't get a tax cut. They don't get a pension, so they won't get a pension increase. Exactly HOW will they be compensated?

    The statement was MOST households earning up to $100,000. I'll bet self-funded retirees are the ones who will NOT be included in MOST.

    And I agree with Mick. When has an increase in tax EVER made the average Australian, or a battler, better off?
    Dollars over Respect?
    8th Dec 2015
    2:06pm
    Eliza, just what percentage of people would you expect, living in retirement, would be on $100,000 pa? Not many contributing on this site.
    Eliza
    8th Dec 2015
    2:11pm
    Exactly my point ...
    That means anyone under that amount p.a. would be compensated.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:13pm
    A few Dollars (not me!).
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    9:46pm
    So after stripping people who have suffered massive income loss due to falling income returns of some $14000 a year (for a homeowner couple) to supposedly save the government money, leaving many with an income of a little over HALF the pension for a homeowner couple, you think the government is going to do an about face and restore their pension to compensate them for the GST increase? Don't hold your breath, Eliza!
    Eliza
    8th Dec 2015
    2:08pm
    Again and again I loudly chant ... MAKE THE MULTI MILLIONAIRS, BILLIONAIRES, TRILLIONAIRS ... PAY THEIR TAXES
    that's the thing we should all be shouting from the rooftops
    Then we could have state of the art health, education, infastructure for our country.
    Political parties ESPECIALY the right are afraid to take action ... They need a HUGE push.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:15pm
    Yes. Yes. Yes.
    Moving the argument away from the tax dodgers is not the way forward.
    This crooked government needs to leave average people alone and go after the real money. THEY WILL REFUSE TO DO THIS. Bet in it!
    Eliza
    8th Dec 2015
    2:44pm
    The people have the power ... They just need to use it ...
    We the people put them in government (right or left)

    The bottom line is that the people need to be informed enough to to see what is really happening.
    Unfortunately the slick crafty double talk (by both sides) beguile and seduce the ordinary citizen ... Scaremongering and the like.

    We could all go forward as a nation if the big boys PAID THEIR TAXES

    REMEMBER GREY POWER?
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:53pm
    You are assuming that 'people' give a damn. Unlike this website where we have some lively discussion and exchange of views (excluding Frank style trolls) most people don't care and are more interested in the footy, a beer after work, going to the club for dinner, annual holidays and buying the latest iPhone. And on election day these mental midgets see a sign at the polling booth and vote....or just vote for the donkey they have always voted for.
    Have you ever wondered how people like Pyne, Abbott, Hockey, Bishop and Corman ever got back for a second term? I have.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    10:53am
    Eliza it's not seduction. It is merely the opening of ones mind. Take minds like mick's for example. His is a mind closed to the possibilities because he cannot see past his political ideology. Turnbull's approach is simply opening closed minds which have been closed by a tribal warfare for the last 8 years.
    Only when the minds are open change can occur and it will be the change that we want. We the people. Grey or black, old or young. It's time for all Australian's to start pulling in the same direction.
    douwe26
    8th Dec 2015
    2:13pm
    pigs might fly too
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    2:15pm
    With a pollie sitting on its back.
    Dollars over Respect?
    8th Dec 2015
    2:32pm
    Drew, simple answer to your question: "No, personally I don't believe, nor do I trust, the modelling!". A 15% GST will have a massive negative impact on low income earners, familes and most retirees who are living on modest incomes - well beyond the compensation quoted!
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    6:03pm
    In the case of a pensioner whose pension is 24,000 pa inclusive of benefits who spends the entire pension, to buy the same goods and services would cost $25,080. A 4.5% increase in spending to achieve the same result. That assumes no broadening of the GST base.
    Therefore "full compensation" would need to be higher than $1,080 if the rise in the GST also includes a broadening of the GST base.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:55pm
    Now which shell do you think the pea is under............
    Peterrj
    9th Dec 2015
    12:51am
    mick, at last, a witty comment from you and no BS about who to vote for!!! When I was last in Paris is saw the Gypsies conning tourist out of large sums of money with the old pea and thimble trick! I worked out that the pea was no longer under any thimble when the shuffling stopped!!!! But no matter how hard I looked I could not see how they always manipulated the pea for the 'house' to win every time when a genuine tourist put down their money!!!
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    4:09pm
    I am amazed at how an extra 4.5% rise in the cost of goods and services is, and I quote.... "a massive cost", "a scam" , "twisted logic", "a load of LNP-supporting rubbish!", "Bribing me with a 5% rise" or "Right-Wing."
    What was the original 10% increase?
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:54pm
    Next message from your sponsor. Paid by the add?
    Rae
    9th Dec 2015
    8:43am
    Isn't the plan to add tax of 15% to a whole heap of things currently
    not taxed. I bet that won't include childcare, rents, private school fees. What else might the wealthy income earners get upset about?

    A simple tax of 1% on all transactions would allow no other taxes and be so much simpler. Stop a lot of speculation and distortion of markets as well.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    10:27am
    Rae good work. I was wondering who would pick me up on my error.
    I agree with you that genuine tax reform is needed. I kind of gravitate to the simple concepts such as a fixed percentage on absolutely everything without the distorted grey areas. Often people need to hire an accountant who in turn often seeks the help of a legal team, just to calculate a person's tax liability. If we did something similar to your suggestion it would loosen the handbrake on our economy.
    The problem is that in order to make a positive move on change of that scale our government needs a lot of political capital banked up.
    I often see good policy opposed because of politics.
    Perhaps our system of government needs to have the innovation wand waved over it first?
    I think we should see that as a priority at this time rather than waiting for the dear old girl to die. So that we're ready after the wake. I would like to see it too!!
    Thinker
    8th Dec 2015
    5:22pm
    If you are a self funded retiree then by definition you will not have been receiving a part pension and so will not be affected by changes in means test!
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    9:50pm
    What has that got to do with this discussion, Thinker?

    A whole lot of retirees who were NOT self-funded and ARE receiving a pension are soon to lose their pension and get nothing despite earning , in many cases, less than $25,000 per year (for a homeowner couple). And they are rightly complaining that a GST increase would cripple them entirely, because, unlike pensioners, they would get no compensation.

    Those who are self-funded retirees now will also suffer a huge loss, though having more assets most will have higher incomes and be somewhat better placed to cope with the pain.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:57pm
    The reality is that self funded pensioners in a falling interest environment will have to find the extra 5% out of their own pocket. The government loves it.
    Peterrj
    9th Dec 2015
    12:55am
    Mmm, I think that Thinker lost his train of thought on this post???
    LiveItUp
    8th Dec 2015
    6:30pm
    No mention of the black market. I think an increase in the GST will have an even bigger increase in the black market. It's already easy to get stuff done around here if you are prepared to pay cash. If not then you wait, wait and wait some more until you come to your senses and pay cash.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:58pm
    Yes, the cash economy. They're working on that one. Called the cashless society. I'd think another 15 years before that gets here.

    8th Dec 2015
    6:57pm
    Yeah, I would TRUST this government to rip off the average and lower Australians to support their gross ineptitude, malfeasance and mismanagement of Australia's budget and financial affairs AND to then put back +30% to those on Pensions or Benefits.... NOT!!!!

    Howard didn't do anything for this group of people except for one small lump sum and ripped them over $2000 a household.

    AND haven't they forgotten about those that are Average of Low income earners who do NOT have social benefits!

    THEN we have what Australia is MAINLY made up of...... MIDDLE CLASS.... they have to foot the will whilst the WEALTHY SKIP all the way to the bank, laughing about how stupid, YET AGAIN, the Middle Class is for allowing this or VOTING it IN NEXT ELECTION!!!

    NOW on to the GRATIN INSTITUTE.... this is a neo con THINK TANK who represent the WEALTHY and try to get all the ORDINARY people to vote for their designated party (Libs) with a mandate to steal from the average Australian's pocket at the next election.

    BIG HOLES in their "stories" this time

    8th Dec 2015
    7:02pm
    Yeah, I would TRUST this government to rip off the average and lower Australians to support their gross ineptitude, malfeasance and mismanagement of Australia's budget and financial affairs AND to then put back +30% to those on Pensions or Benefits.... NOT!!!!

    Howard when he introduced the GST and spent multi millions in advertising LIES, didn't follow through and do anything for this group of people, except for one small lump sum and ripped them over $2000pa a household.

    AND haven't they forgotten about those that are Average of Low income earners who do NOT have social benefits!

    THEN we have what Australia is MAINLY made up of...... MIDDLE CLASS.... they have to foot the bill whilst the WEALTHY SKIP all the way to the bank, laughing about how stupid, YET AGAIN, the Middle Class is for allowing this or VOTING it IN NEXT ELECTION!!!

    NOW on to the GRATIN INSTITUTE.... this is a neo con THINK TANK who represent the WEALTHY and try to think of ways of getting all the ORDINARY people to vote for their designated party (Libs) and giving them a MANDATE to steal from the average Australian's pocket at the next election.

    BIG HOLES in their "stories" this time... that is how HARD it is to SELL changes to the GST.
    niemakawa
    8th Dec 2015
    7:53pm
    They forgot to mention "bracket creep" Over a period of time any "benefit" will be eroded.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    9:58pm
    Which politician are you referring to niemakawa?
    niemakawa
    9th Dec 2015
    7:19am
    I did not mention any politician, but if you insist ALL LABOR POLITICIANS.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:13pm
    Nice to be consistent. As Kevin Rudd said during the last election campaign "yes I did start WW II".
    Peterrj
    12th Dec 2015
    12:15am
    niemakawa, looks like mick has taken his own advice and started drinking??? That could be one explanation for mick's two postings above????
    Dinosaur
    8th Dec 2015
    8:03pm
    Robbing Peter to pay Paul snake oil willy is at it again smoke and mirrors is all we get from Turnbull and Morrison please tackle the real villains tax dodgers and multi national companies Or would that stop the Libs coffers from being boosted by their friends leave the lowly paid and deserving pensioners alone PUD

    8th Dec 2015
    8:08pm
    ah, is it not great to see our labor trolls, labor mick, his supposed fence sitter, fast eddy, I am missing barak, come on don't be shy, a new one eliza, great to see mussolini back in the lime lights, commenting on the research of the grattan institute and attempting to assure us how unfair and liberal minded this institute, created by their love child, mr Rudd, is.
    labor mick's favourite saying, follow the money trail, I did and found mr. williamson, ex president of the labor party, doing a 7 and a halve year stretch in the klink, had his fingers in the till, labor m.p. thompson guilty of misappropriating money belonging to union members, he used it for sexual pleasure ???, another union official, mrs jackson being ordered to pay back more than a million dollars used for her own pleasures and now we have two top union officials in victoria accused of blackmail and so the list goes on.
    I agree self funded retirees are getting a real rough deal and they need to be recompenced, however I can assure you, pensioners, apart of those who rent, are on an pretty good wicket and will receive, give or take, as was when gst was introduced, a 15% increase on their pension.
    as for labor troll mick, my advice, 1: know what survey your are answering, 1200 dollars into everybody's account, you looked like a goose, as they say" you don't have to have a long neck to be a goose".
    2: as for voting out this government, can anybody imagine having shortie as a prime minister, we will have border police attempting to stop the outgoing boats!!!!!!!!!!
    Adrianus
    8th Dec 2015
    8:26pm
    heemsy, I'm rolling on the floor with laughter. HA HA HA!!!
    Follow the money, A HA HA!!!
    I often said I would make a fortune selling paper shredders, if I only had one customer. The Union/Labor Party. The police caught Williamson running across the carpark with files to shred.
    Save on legwork and cut your time with the new "Frank's portable Shredder." It goes with you and gets you out of trouble everytime. What a time saver.
    Anonymous
    8th Dec 2015
    8:54pm
    heemskerk, really well said. Poor mick will have a hard time getting to sleep tonight with all these home truths being aired.
    MICK
    8th Dec 2015
    10:04pm
    When all else fails and when right wing trolls cannot win an argument on the facts then turn to ridicule.
    If you think that voters are going to sign their own death warrants by putting this bunch of lying low life crooks back into power then you gentlemen are dreamin'. Live in fairland.
    Time for a strategy meeting. You have no supporters here.
    niemakawa
    8th Dec 2015
    10:08pm
    Mick, read again what you have written full of ridicule. Take a break.
    Eliza
    9th Dec 2015
    7:40am
    Oh dear!
    Some people need to seek treatment.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    12:11pm
    Troll corner or the 3 stooges? Lets keep it to fact. Not lies and propaganda....which is all trolls can ever manage.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    12:59pm
    Yes it's all very serious isn't it?
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:15pm
    Do you understand what 'ganging up' is Frank? Used to be abhorred by real men in this country. Today's tough guys hunt in packs!
    I'll take it as it was meant....but I have pretty tough skin********_______
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    8:51pm
    Sorry mick, you will need to explain it to me?
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2015
    4:04pm
    Of course! I never realised the unions and their few rotten apples were responsible for all economic ills in this country, because they misused union funds! An obvious reason to demand an extra 5% GST on existing items and install 15% on all others...!! (yardle, yardle, yardle)....

    $1200 in an account is NOT 'extra' - it is under $300 a week, the mooted amount per month in Finland.... now without comparing costs of living etc, it is impossible to say - but seriously I doubt any pensioner would be better off on $1200 a month instead of pension. The unemployed, yes ... they need $1200 a month to live, and it would be a slight rise.

    So all this uttering is utter rubbish, heemskerk.

    And no - I would not like to see a single one of our current crop of politicians as our next PM or even in our Parliament.

    We need a clean sweep and a totally new ball game.
    niemakawa
    9th Dec 2015
    7:20am
    The best thing that pensioners have to look forward to is death, so live with that.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    12:12pm
    I think that you meant there are only 2 things certain in life: death and taxes. I'm trying to avoid both but.......yes, pigs will fly.
    Peterrj
    12th Dec 2015
    12:24am
    Nah, can't agree, having a mick comment free day is a whole lot better than death
    DaveL
    9th Dec 2015
    8:17am
    There's no discussion on tax reform about various tax structures and the concession received by them. Family trusts, novated leasing, superannuation, capital gains tax, salary sacrifice of so called work related equipment, plus much more. There is no overall review of all factors for funding of various government costs. A piecemeal approach to cover up an plan of delusion.
    The GST is a lazy tax and exemptions are only available to those who have a tax structure to avoid it. How much is the black market worth these days. My understanding that there is 60 billion dollars in currency notes in circulation in the Australian economy. What will a 15 percent rate bring.
    Until there is an conversation on all matters involved in tax reform, no government can claim they are acting in the best interest of Australians. The lowering of asset test is an example of a one off.
    Rae
    9th Dec 2015
    9:14am
    The Australian economy is $1500 billion a year. $60 billion in circulation is not much especially as the surcharges on card use haven't been quite fixed up yet. Since the GST many astute have also hoarded some cash just for safety.

    I was in Athens August 2007 when we thought the ATMs and credit system would implode. It is a scary thing to count your cash and wonder how long it will keep you. It took a reboot of close to $300 million to stop that.

    Remember we have a very large new immigrant population over the past 15 years who traditionally don't trust banks and have beliefs about interest on loans that ensures cash is necessary.

    The population is probably much larger than the 23 million on the records.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    12:02pm
    Rae the ABS guess is 23,951,977 as of March 2015.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    12:17pm
    Dave: I went shopping with my wife this morning and it was clear that fresh food, which currently has no tax on it, would cost average people much more if the GST base is moved to include all things. This is the treachery of this government which talks about 'compensation' but simply in time seeks to increase taxes on the poor and average citizens.
    Make no mistake that what is currently being engineered is tax cuts for the rich and more taxes for everybody else. My prediction is that this government will offer all tax decreases, but when this is scrutinised it will be clear that average Australians will get zilch and the greedy top end will get heaps. THAT IS THE GAME PLAN. Believe otherwise at your own peril.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    1:02pm
    mick, how much would you spend on fresh food for a week?
    I ask because I have no idea what we spend.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:17pm
    Me neither. All I know is that our circa $130 weekly food shop has a heck of a lot of fruit and veg in it.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    8:54pm
    Yep mine I suppose would be the same. That's an extra $20 per week if the base is broadened. That's easy to calculate then.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    10:47pm
    We do not have kids to feed any longer. Many dirt poor people do. Some with a heap of kids. Hence the issue!
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2015
    10:58pm
    Not every one is going to get their 100% compensation. I would imagine only low income earners and those on welfare.
    It wouldn't make much sense to introduce a tax and then return it to all people. I doubt it will happen. I don't think the states will agree to a reduction in income taxes for individuals and small business entities.
    This current tax system stinks.
    We want people to be more productive so when they do we tax them more.
    We want businesses to employ more but when they do we tax them more.
    80% of small businesses want to stay under the $2m turnover mark to avoid extra tax based on the number of employees. That's right. Only 20% of small businesses want to grow.
    The Tax system is designed to slow the economy.
    Happy Jack
    9th Dec 2015
    9:42am
    Why won't the Treasurer, moaning morrie 'come out' and own up to the Lieberal agenda which they know full well will further erode the purchasing power of pensioners and self funded retirees. NO! far easier to blame the states. This bloke has got no guts whatsoever.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2015
    4:08pm
    He probably doesn't understand it anyway, or how it really works, and if he does, I doubt he'd have the guts to openly say - "the only way we can fix things is to rip you all off in a very Christian way".

    If he did, he'd get the sacking by the people he deserves, and he would never want that. One good reason to say we pay our politicians too well for them to ever want to leave... I think we need to reverse that and make it a hardship posting and see how the strong and the genuine survive.
    babyboomer
    9th Dec 2015
    10:59am
    Oh No! PLEASE dont put up big headlines about Pensioners benefitting from GST.. I will be just under the line to get any kind of Pension and will be struggling EVEN MORE if the GST is increased. It really is time that the big-earning Companies paid More. Liberal Govts favour their own kind=THE RICH. They have no idea what it is like to live hand to mouth. No idea at all and they dont give a .......Gillian
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    12:20pm
    Hope you vote for an Independent whose preference goes to the Labor side. This is the only way to end the game as the only message this bunch of misfits understands is eradication (them!).
    Tell your friends. We need numbers to do this.
    Happy Jack
    9th Dec 2015
    12:10pm
    Hey heemsjerk! if indeed you are a self funded or on a centrelink pension why don't you jump on the band wagon and join us in condemning this mob for slashing our standard of living instead of going for the man and not the ball?
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    12:23pm
    Like a couple of posters on this website Heemskerk is a Liberal Party stoolie spouting party propaganda. You won't get any real discussion or any acknowledgement about any black and white facts which go against the Liberal Party line. Highly likely this guy is a professional blogger employed to do this. Vladimir Putin has a building full of these sorts of people. Likely that Australia may have the same. So where's the media??????
    Happy Jack
    9th Dec 2015
    1:38pm
    Mick! please get the spelling right- the names: Geermjerk and the name of his party is the LIEberal party!
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:18pm
    Where do I find the smilie icons? Very funny.

    9th Dec 2015
    7:42pm
    happy jack, I might be a jerk in your eyes, I won't take offence seeing that it was made by you, a labor troll if we ever seen one, might even surpass labor mick, but by reading the articles and unlike being a labor troll like you and labor mick, gives me the opportunity to make up my own mind instead of being blinded by the likes of bill the knive and his welded on labor mates, just read labor mick's comments, such as: vote for an independent but make sure his preferences go to the labor party, and even you would have to agree stupidity and lies are still labor's main indoctrination socialism and then you show yourself up as one of those supporters, as the saying goes, when brains were supplied, you was too lazy to get to the front of the queue and labor mick was holding your hand.
    MICK
    9th Dec 2015
    8:27pm
    You are only viewed as a jerk because you behave like one.
    If I gave a damn about Labor I would be happy to wear the tag you gave me. I don't. You mistake, intentionally or otherwise, the offense I take at the injustice of the right wing posts which make accusations which are either outright lies or at best pale into insignificance when you compare the 2 sides.
    You need badly to visit the US. Average people live like dogs there and are used by the wealthy end of town like disposable toothpicks. It makes one want to puke. My dog would have a significantly better life than most of these people. And you talk about "socialism".
    My take is neither capitalism or socialism. I sort of live by the creed "do to other as you would have them do to you". Ok,.......you don't give a tinkers!!! No empathy. Sorry you have had such a crap life as to feel that way it must have been bad.
    So can I call you 'liberal stoolie heemskerk'? Or worse? Thought not.
    If you want respect from me then make your arguments based on FACT, not hate and not on the propaganda coming from the Liberal Party misfits currently running our nation. Do that and show that you care about the country and you'll get my respect. Act like a loony on steroids and ice and I'll respond accordingly.
    Have a nice day.
    Happy Jack
    10th Dec 2015
    8:13am
    Hey! GermsJerk- going by your punctuation skills, I'll bet you weren't educated at one of those uppity private schools attended by the very people you so admire and more than likely aspire to emulate. You won't make it mate, you have to be born into the ruling class.
    Adrianus
    10th Dec 2015
    9:44am
    Our interest bill alone on government debt is $14b pa. We need to find that and some more to pay down the debt, without stifling economic growth. The budget is in such a mess and any attempt at repair is being sabotaged. This government was handed a budget in chaos. The extent of the mess was exemplified by outgoing Labor thinking the deficit was $18b, but treasury figures revealed the deficit was $48b.
    The massive borrowing and spending to get us in this position is clearly not adding revenue and therefor should be regarded as waste, but that's another unhelpful line of discussion.
    The question is what to do ?

    Shorten has said given the opportunity Labor will borrow their way out of debt and deficit.

    Some suggest we should tax the haves more and give it to the have nots. Others suggest that only high income earners should be taxed more on top of the budget repair tax they have already been burdened with. There's a call for a tax increase on those saving for their retirement with Superannuation. Increased taxes on Business? Crackdown on tax avoiders? Reduction in spending, including welfare spending. A GST increase? A rearrangement of our tax system?
    Something tells me that we are at a watershed moment in our history.
    We can at least take some comfort knowing that the big issues are being discussed seriously by COAG.
    I see the outcome as being one of 3 results.
    1. A small tweak.
    2. A moderate tweak.
    3. A major reform. Not only of our tax system but including (and not limited to) Budget formulation reform.
    I will let others speculate on the speed bumps to progress?
    MICK
    10th Dec 2015
    11:20am
    This is the normal illogical blame game Frank. Never seems to end. Issues:

    1. GFC: Look it up. Were any of your family thrown out of work in Oz? Many were in the rest of the world.
    2. Debt: Have a close look at what the LNP government now in power has racked up........removed debt ceiling, $8 billion a year because of Carbon Tax repeal, $80 million on Royal Commission witch hunt which achieved only a few minor and insignificant scalps. That is the short list!

    We don't need tweaks. We need accountable and HONEST government. Both sides. AND ACCOUNTABILITY, NOT THE BLAME GAME to divert attention away from the sins being committed.

    The way forward is clear but THIS GOVERNMENT has its big business and wealthy interests who come before anything worthwhile for our country. All we ever see is attacks on poor and average citizens whilst at the same time listening to talk about tax cuts (for the rich!) whilst refusing to close the humongous tax evasion from multinationals and the rich as well as the superannuation tax shelters and all the other 'out' set up for the big end of town (trusts, overseas tax havens, dubious tax deductions, etc.)
    I'll say it so there is no mistake....I DON'T CARE WHICH SIDE OF POLITICS IS IN POWER AS LONG AS IT IS HONEST, TRANSPARENT AND SERVES THE NATION, NOT VESTED INTERESTS. And for the record I want to see a party which spends money ON THE NATION. As much as Labor went overboard we will have an NBN (like the rest of the developed world, albeit it butchered by Turnbull) and yes working Australians using the public education system has after almost half a century got repairs done as well as halls.
    I am sick and tired of the political BS which right wing stoolies are writing. The facts are clear. The behaviour of parties are clear. Support the nation Frank....not your affiliated party trying its best to destitute average citizens and give this money to the rich. That is obscene. Most Australians appear to agree.
    Adrianus
    11th Dec 2015
    8:12am
    Well, I was wrong when I stated "We can at least take some comfort knowing that the big issues are being discussed seriously by COAG."
    Daniel Andrews has bowed to union pressure and did not attend. You see he wants an increase on workers income tax with most of that additional tax revenue going to the states. He promises to spend his windfall on health/hospitals. And if he cant have his way then he is not interested in the discussion.
    He "doesn't want a GST" but if it is increased he will not oppose it.
    Is it any wonder some of these Labor states are in a mess. They care more about politics than getting the job done.
    Andrews wants a GST but he doesn't want his finger prints on it.
    But he will stand by the CFMEU because it gives him instructions. Sound familiar?
    Yes , Bill Shorten is like Andrews, another mindless soldier of the movement.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2015
    4:12pm
    Introduce a tax for operating in this country for those who arrive here to do business from a tax haven. You pay no tax in the Republic of Barbadireland - good - that means you can afford to pay your taxes here, and you won't lose out at all.

    You wanna play here and impose the Australia Bonus in pricing so as to rip us off more as we go down the gurgler? You can pay your taxes here in full, and part of that is a tax to even set up here.
    Happy Jack
    10th Dec 2015
    1:03pm
    They really don't get it, do they! Here's Turnbull on the radio right at this moment giving us another lesson on how exciting it is to be in this country and how we are faced with big financial difficulties which we all face and on this very same day the news is out- "POLITICIANS IN FOR BIG PAY INCREASE". This on top of Bishop's ( yes the sojourn ripping the tax payer off gene sure runs strong through that family ) extravagant $30000 jet flight. Yeh, we sure need a lecture on how to knuckle down and take a drop in our living standard!!!!!
    MICK
    10th Dec 2015
    1:42pm
    The electorate will, sooner or later, see Turnbull's rhetoric for what it is: verbal diarrhea which talks the feel good stuff and does not address the issues. He is pretty good at it. Was caught out the other night by Leigh Sales though when she strayed from the 'innovation' topic and started to enquire about other issues. Turnbull refused to engage.
    Scoot8
    10th Dec 2015
    2:36pm
    Totally agree with ParraPete, self-funded retirees shafted AGAIN! Oh how I wish I had taken overseas trips and indulged in some frivolous spending. Yes scrimping and saving over the working years to look after oneself in old age is for the birds. I should have remembered there is always the pension! Doesn't pay to be frugal. Spend, spend, spend is what I say to younger friends and relatives today, that is if they have anything left when the government is taxing them at high rates. There is talk the GST will include health costs, really!! old age is when health costs can be more of a burden to pensioners and self-funded retirees, so taxing it at 15% is disgusting in the extreme. Pat
    Adrianus
    10th Dec 2015
    3:03pm
    Pat, I agree that self funded retirees which account for about 20% of retirees are getting shafted. Even a worker on $100k gets a better deal.
    I'm sorry you are too wealthy. Is there anything I can do to help?
    maxchugg
    10th Dec 2015
    3:18pm
    An increase in GST will be good for pensioners?
    An allowance will be given to some, but the problem is that what the government gives openly it removes secretly.
    The age pension is a classic case in point. Most of us worked all our lives and paid tax, believing that this would entitle us to an age pension. Yet now Scott Morrison is effectively telling us that a pension is lke a driver's licence, a privilege, not a right.

    10th Dec 2015
    7:43pm
    labor trolls mick en happy jack, for starters labor mick, I would be offended if you of all the labor trolls showed respect for me, it would put me in your and happy labor troll jack's class, which would be the greatest insult anybody could give me in this beautiful country.
    labor mick as for hanging your hat on how rudd and his boldheaded singer/minister rescued australia of the so-called gfc, did you attend any of the funerals of those killed by the rudd's insulation debacle, did you attend some of the fires as a result of rudd's insulation debacle, the money wasted by giving everybody at least $750.00, including the death, the pokies figures for those two months, who showed an increase of profits of more then 150%, speak for themselves or flatscreen t.v's, the increase of sales resulted in a waiting time of more than 2 months with all the profits going back to japan etc, in the meantime reputable insulation firms went bankrupt because of the stupidity of labor run by rudd and julia, the lovechild of labor mick.
    as for the nbn, another of labor troll mick's highlights, he forgot to tell you it was invented on the back of a beer coaster, that by itself states enough about the condition of rudd and his offsider's at the time, who would forget the abuse received by the stewardess when rudd asked for a meal,
    As for labor troll happy jack, if you think you can insult me by stating I did not attend an uppity private school, it just show how jealous some people can get, at least I had schooling, by reading your comments, my former statement told it all.
    as I have stated before, the self funded retirees are the ones we should look after, they are the ones who looked forward to their requirements in later life so as not to be a burden on the government, yet, and I am not one of them, they are getting screwed by to-days and tomorrows regulations.
    as for to-days article, unless we all put our shoulders to the wheel, we will slowly but surely drown in the mess, we all know who got us there but as least let us all pull together for the sake of our children, grandchildren
    Happy Jack
    10th Dec 2015
    10:54pm
    Hey GermJerk! good to hear that you are on the same side as the self funded retirees. You may have noted that Smokin Joe's been dipping into the honey pot, what with his lucrative parlaughmentry pension( which he didn't have to reach the age of 70 to access ) and now he's off to the USA for another raid on the bicky barrel along with all the lurks and perks. What do you and your mates have to say about this shameful behaviour, GermsJerk-: is he in fact, to use his terminology, a lifter or a leaner? and while we are on about the 1/2 doz unfortunate and very regrettable pink batt deaths always keep in mind that the number falls short by 448 that fell in the Vietnam war which your mob sadly got us involved in through conscription. The numbers speak for themselves, I'm sure you'll agree!? GermsJerk.
    TREBOR
    11th Dec 2015
    10:06pm
    Joe's second book - Fifty Shades of Gravy....
    Anonymous
    12th Dec 2015
    7:25pm
    happy jackass, they would never accept you for militairy service in this country, as to bring the vietnam war or for that matter any war into these columns show how low you have fallen, oblivious you was one of those who spit on us when we returned to melbourne.
    retroy
    11th Dec 2015
    1:09pm
    What a lot of ill considered rubbish. Self funded retirees will just get higher cosst so please engage brain before putting this on your web site
    Rosret
    12th Dec 2015
    8:15am
    Sorry, but the very people who have worked so hard to not be a burden on the tax payer - the self funded retirees are the ones who will get hurt most. - and I mean really hurt.
    Small businesses are also badly hit too. Many went out of operation with the GST introduction and I will be sorry to see how many more will fall with yet another hit.
    I really hope everyone enjoyed their $1000 "TVs" that the govt gave us to get out of the financial crisis. Boy, are we paying now!
    Anonymous
    12th Dec 2015
    7:33pm
    in total agreement, I am not one of you, but have seen many of you going to the wall, while many so called pensioners live the lives of millionaires.
    Happy Jack
    13th Dec 2015
    10:27am
    Sorry to inform you GermsJerk, you're casting aspersions there on an old drill Sergeant who has proudly worn her Majesty's uniform. I can recall the good old days on the parade ground when we'd have characters like yourself, having emerged from underskirt, crying for their mother's. But then, if you were of military age no doubt you'd have taken shelter in a University class room waiting for the duration, GermsJerk.
    Anonymous
    13th Dec 2015
    6:47pm
    jackass, dreaming again, her majesty's uniform, may be the queen of sheba's or jane of tarzan's fame uniform, a drill sergeant, what a laugh, most likely a parking officer, one of those who could not get in the army or the police force or a prison officer and had to settle for a parking officer or worst of all a union organiser only to be surpassed by a labor stooge, a drill sergeant, what a laugh, just keep on dreaming and you might think that you are the greatest jackass to ever put foot on this earth, believe me, many if not everybody would agree. happy dreams, jackass.

    13th Dec 2015
    1:20pm
    Legalised thugs that is what they are ??
    Whoray46
    14th Dec 2015
    11:47am
    GST GET STUFF TAX. Its a TAX, it will hit the poor the most regardless of what the pollies will try & snow you with!
    Snowwhite
    15th Dec 2015
    11:53am
    The Grattan Institute is a Liberal stooge. The rise in the GST to 15% is in actual fact a rise of 50%. They must think we pensioners never went to school. How they think giving a 5% cash increase to the pension will compensate is a joke.
    Happy Jack
    15th Dec 2015
    4:20pm
    Hey GermJerk, you may recall that we live in a democracy in this country which entitles me to bring up aspects of the Vietnam war (refer to previous article ) concerning the tragic loss of life incurred on our youth. You can feel fortunate that I didn’t mention that other transgression
    Iraq, where once again we went to war under a false pretence ( remember weapons of mass destruction? ) perpetrated by your friends in the Lieberal party not to mention the bribes paid to the enemy by the AWB to maintain wheat sales. Can buy a lot of lead for the sum paid out. And while we're on about Nam, what of the Vets who on returning were shunned by the RSL and treated shabily by those of the same political persuasion that sent them there. I say shame, shame, GermsJerk, shame.
    Anonymous
    15th Dec 2015
    8:23pm
    jackass,
    the shame is on you, being one of those traitors who spit on us as we returned to australia, how I would have loved to confront you at the time and your labor trolls, it would have shown your weak and pityfull courage, your attitude, backed up by those labor shameful people, the likes of whitlam, cairns etc., and obliviously you, who keeps on dreaming to be a sergeant, to be one, you would have to have balls, a thing which is sadly lacking by you, the closest you ever came to be a hero was a wet dream.
    Radish
    21st Jan 2016
    2:47pm
    Don't worry if Shorten gets in after the Libs bring in the GST he will change it back to 10%!!

    If you believe that you believe in the tooth fairy!
    SKRAPI
    27th Jan 2016
    2:15pm
    GST Should never B on fresh food ever . An increased rate of Pension to those who need it would help. but I notice businesses or others { even Gov. depts. } raise their costs ,esp, renters to pensioners when they receive a rise .
    Our rates , electricity .water, gas, & petrolwill all have that extra 5 % on the cost not to mention other items .
    Robert Henry
    21st Nov 2016
    4:26pm
    What a load of tripe "Raising the GST to !5% would be good for pensioners." The GST is a Regressive Tax, applies to virtually everything, and when introduced the tax-take went from 13 Billion to 29 Billion but Peter Costello said it would settle in and next year they would get the 34 billion expected, which they did. Bit difficult for me to find the exact current take but believe me it's huge. I can't seem to raise enough money for a new side fence and as far as employing a plumber or an electrician - forget it. Half my house lights are out of action but short of winning Tattslotto they'll have to stay that way. I agree with ParraPete - why did I work so hard to see so much of it disappear during the GFC which was the result of the Policies of Blair Bush and Howard. Get rid of this Fascist Turnbull Government, a continuance of the Abbott Fascist Government. Let's get Australia back to a fairer way of doing things. If you want an example of this Government's ineptitude then look no further than Malkie having to ring Greg Norman to get Donald Trump's phone number. And how long was the lead-up to Trump being President Elect? This Mob couldn't run a Pub Chook Raffle!


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