Labor announces a plan to subsidise dental for older Australians

Older Australians to receive up to $500 a year towards dental care under Labor.

Labor announces a plan to subsidise dental for older Australians

Labor leader Bill Shorten has pledged $2.4 billion towards dental care for age pensioners and anyone holding a Commonwealth Seniors Health Care Card.

Labor will offer $1000 over a two-year period or $500 a year for dental work under Medicare.

“Our plan will provide up to $1000 every two years to help pay for dental services for 2.6 million people on the Age Pension,” said Mr Shorten.

“And another 380,000 Australians who hold a Commonwealth Seniors Healthcare Card will get the same benefit.”

The announcement was made on Sunday amidst a string of other policies including a wage increase for early childhood educators and increases to childcare subsidies.

The total cost of these plans would total $7 billion. Labor says it has the big-spending policies covered by taxing the “big end of town”, with changes to negative gearing and removing tax cuts and other tax loopholes, including franking credits.

Mr Shorten has offered $1000 in dental subsidies to pensioners and 380,000 seniors who aren’t pensioners but who hold a healthcare card and, if elected, promised to negotiate with the states for a much larger federal-funded oral health program.

Private dentists will be able to bulk-bill up to $1000 over two years for eligible patients under Medicare and amounts above the $1000 may still be covered by health insurance.

“It will not come out of your bank account. It will not go on your credit card. You will not have to delay treatment because you can't afford the care,” said Mr Shorten. “It will be covered by your Medicare card.

“All of us know these things undermine your quality of life, your self-confidence, your basic dignity,” he said. “If you cannot get your teeth fixed, you are deprived of the simple joys.”

Shadow health minister Catherine King called the announcement the next step in “Labor’s vision of universal access to dental care in Australia”.

“We know that older Australians, one in five older Australians, have no natural teeth, and one in two suffer from gum disease – moderate to severe,” said Ms King.

“We know that for older Australians, this affects their health across the course of the rest of their life.

“Labor wants to expand dental when it comes to our Medicare system. This is a major investment in the cost of living for pensioners and senior Australians and something I am very proud of.”

The policy comes on the heels of the Greens proposing a $3.5 billion extension to Medicare that would fund dental care for pensioners, seniors, carers, people on the disability support pension, concession cardholders and all children and teenagers.

In a Flash Poll conducted by YourLifeChoices, 90 per cent of the respondents were in favour of the Greens’ proposal to introduce a universal dental care insurance scheme similar to Medicare and more than 60 per cent said they would vote for a party that promised to deliver such a scheme.

Many retirees are maddened by Labor’s plans to remove franking credit refunds, but Labor may be looking to soften the blow – and perhaps swing a few votes – with this little ‘sweetener’.

The Flash Poll revealed that 41 per cent of over 55s visit a dentist annually, although almost half (48 per cent) do not have private health insurance. Of those who do have private health insurance, 47 per cent say dental is not part of their cover and only 10 per cent of private health insurance holders have full dental as part of their cover.

While Labor has made big promises, it has still not released independent costings for the proposal. The Coalition quickly took the opportunity to highlight a potential cost blowout as a result of Mr Shorten’s plan.

“This latest promise also runs the risk of a major blowout, with no information on how it will not lead to higher dental costs and a profit windfall for dental companies, which is exactly a repeat of their pathology scandal,” said Health Minister Greg Hunt.

Labor’s announcements have curried favour with the Australian Dental Association (ADA), the Consumers’ Health Forum and the Australian Healthcare and Hospitals Association (AHHA).

ADA president Carmelo Bonanno told The Australian it was “critically important that a Labor government works with the ADA in developing the finer details … as there are a number of issues that need to be addressed to ensure a smooth implementation and greatest uptake of the scheme”, while AHHA chief executive Alison Verhoeven said “public dental health services have been grossly underfunded for too long”.

Pre-polling begins today, and the election campaign will run for three weeks before Australians take to the polls on 18 May.

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    COMMENTS

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    LJ
    29th Apr 2019
    9:12am
    If anyone wanted proof of the contempt that Shorten's Labor has for the electorate that Labor refers to disparagingly as the 'punters' this is it.

    The blatant unfairness of this obscene attempt at vote buying directed at the seniors Labor despises must force any self-supporting retiree to put Labor and Greens at the bottom of their ballot form.

    And what about young voters, will they see any worth at all in scrimping and saving for their own retirement when they can see a Labor+Greens crew determined to punish their parents and grandparents who have scrimped and saved all of their lives to relieve government of the burden of paying them pensions in the old age?
    Janus
    29th Apr 2019
    10:05am
    Vote buying? Isn't that what this campaign is all about? Aren't the Liberals doing exactly the same?

    Do I remember correctly that the Libs, aided by the Greens, changed the asset tests a few years back, and made many thousands of near-retired folk inelibible for a pension? Some of us have longer memories than others - I will never forgive the Libs for that.

    As for the "young voters", The Libs have done them a real favour by cutting education (uni used to be free, now the young are debt ridden for years), by penalising those who can't find work (newstart= long term poverty and increased crime), and failing to address the housing problem (oldies, hurry up and die so that your kids can get a house).

    For all that Labour is penalising the better-off oldies (ie not just the well-off, also the better-off), they would appear to me to be the lesser evil. As for the others, don't even think about them.
    Dave R
    29th Apr 2019
    10:13am
    You hateful post has nothing to do with the issue. Do you have a mental health problem?
    Dental care has been sadly missing from Medicare and this initiative goes some way to rectifying that. It will be a big vote winner for nearly all seniors as it covers nearly all of us.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    10:14am
    LJ, you have lost me. I am totally bewildered by your comment. It is not even laughable, it goes beyond that point.
    All I can assume is that you are making a desperate plea for your LNP party.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    10:15am
    The fact that it is on Medicare means it is likely the start of including dental in Medicare for all and this is the start.
    jackie
    29th Apr 2019
    10:40am
    LJ This is a great incentive by Labor ...don't be so negative...you can get some falsies now.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    10:55am
    Vote buying indeed?
    What about buying Clive Palmer's preferences?
    The LNP government we had to have is one of the most blatant crooked ever seen in our country. It needs to be sent OUT.

    Whilst I hate the show being put on by both sides I'll always lean to promises which help average citizens over the top end of town. Add to that the current batch are unabated liars and will shred most of their promises the day after a win and what choice does one have? Only the party trolls, rusted on supporters and mentally challenged voters will vote for the current dictatorship in formation stage. If you know what's good for all average citizens then I have one work of advice: DON'T.

    As they say....you get the government you deserve.
    Gra
    29th Apr 2019
    11:08am
    Dave R unless you know of a dental practice that offers bulk billing Shortens Dental plan is worthless to us seniors. Don't be sucked in by empty promises.
    SFR
    29th Apr 2019
    11:53am
    LJ, would appreciate you not posting or commenting until after the election if you want to just scaremonger or are you worried about not getting paid per post from your LNP employer
    Adrianus
    29th Apr 2019
    12:15pm
    LJ, you make a valid point. Bill Shorten may be one of the most divisive political leaders of our time. A person who will say anything to gain power for Labor/Greens/Unions.
    Telling people there will be no new taxes on superannuation under a government he leads, then weasel words the next day. Telling workers in Gladstone that he will not increase their taxes because they are high income earners, but meanwhile planning a raft of new taxes behind their back. Waving a dental white flag at retirees while introducing a change to franking credits. He doesn't even know the cost of the Greens climate change policies.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    12:43pm
    Adrianus, Labor/Greens/Unions, that’s the way to go. Thanks for the plug.
    The cost of doing nothing about climate change exceeds anything you can imagine.
    It does not matter whether you are convinced or not. It simply is not worth the risk.
    Imagine if there was the tiniest chance of something bad happening wouldn’t you cover yourself by taking care?!
    Some independents look good depending who they preference. Some surprises there actually as they seem to have more sense than LNP.
    LNP getting into bed with Palmer has removed any chance of their getting back into power.
    This present caretaker government has done all it can to avoid governing again.
    KSS
    29th Apr 2019
    12:44pm
    Adrianus, Mr Shorten doesn't know the detail or costs of his own policies never mind those of the Greens that he will have to support in return for them preferencing Labor.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    1:32pm
    Dream on, Paddington. Labor and Greens are the way to go if you want to see the nation destroyed. Radical ratbags with no economic sense, much less any morality or family values or respect for working people. Give them control and watch Nero fiddle while Rome burns.

    KSS is right. Short-on-brains has no idea of the costs of his policies. All he knows how to do is tax and lie.
    maxchugg
    29th Apr 2019
    1:41pm
    Whoopee! Bill Shorten is going to give us a free lunch - we all know about them, don't we?

    Well, not exactly a lunch, more free maintenance on the equipment we use to eat our lunch with. Said lunches in future will probably have to be cold because we won't be able to afford to cook when Shorten's energy policy makes electricity even more unaffordable and drives industry off shore.
    Sceptic
    29th Apr 2019
    2:36pm
    Once again Paddington, unfortunately you display your deep ignorance, "The cost of doing nothing about climate change exceeds anything you can imagine." Surely you know what Australia's emissions of carbon dioxide are? In case you do nto, they are minuscule and the global annual increase is twice Australia's total emissions. Please enlighten the good people on this site with your brilliance of how anything that is done in Australia to reduce emissions will have the slightest effect on global temperatures, let alone local temperatures.
    Adrianus
    29th Apr 2019
    3:53pm
    "The cost of doing nothing about climate change exceeds anything you can imagine.
    It does not matter whether you are convinced or not. It simply is not worth the risk." - Paddo.

    Paddo, your statement is based on your fear of the unknown. You are repeating a call to action for non thinkers to join a religious sect.
    I've been involved with risk management for long enough to know that emotional reactivity is to be avoided at all costs, yes even in the face of enormous danger.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    3:57pm
    Here we see the Coalition trolls again. Its been a while. Things must be getting desperate at party HQ and the ranks are worried if they have roll out a full on assault from the morally dead.
    No matter what is trolled the result is already done. Perhaps this dirty government will copy the NSW state model where the dirt and accusations came out and the rats won the day. I can hardly wait.
    GeorgeM
    29th Apr 2019
    8:56pm
    I have to agree with LJ and OAW, this is nothing but a (once again foolishly) targeted bribe / pork barrelling by a desperate Bill keen to become PM at any cost. If he wanted Dental to be part of Medicare, let him just propose that! $500 per year is an insult anyway!
    Hey, looking deeper at his thinking - is he by any chance thinking that Medicare should also be restricted among retirees only to pensioners and those on CSHC???? Rest can look after themselves or die early? Dangerous policy opening the doors for more insane targeting in the future.

    Without doubt, the Liberals need to be thrown out, but the Labor + Greens combination is becoming more and more unhinged and dangerous as the election rolls on. Best vote all 3 of these parties OUT, especially the current seat-huggers by putting them LAST (or just above any crazies).
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    9:09pm
    Given the number of right wing trolls GeorgeM I'd be reserving the "targeted bribe" accusation. Today's 'new' right wing poster en masse pretty well tells a story of corruption in progress and Shorten's latest offer is but one from both sides. You omitted to mention that.

    Both sides are making promises they may not be able to keep. I have to laugh at Morrison's repeated lie about a surplus. Never called out by the right wing media (of course) but so full of holes you could drive a Mack truck through it.
    By all means vote Independent but MAKE SURE THE CANDIDATE IS NOT A LIBERAL PARTY FRONT. Many are.
    maxchugg
    30th Apr 2019
    7:07pm
    Do we now have censorship on this site? I would be interested to know why my previous post was taken down – if there are any valid reasons I would like to be informed. Anyway. I will repeat what I previously said, and will continue to repeat it for as long as necessary

    Yet again, as per usual, Mick denounces as government trolls anyone who dares to not agree with his opinions (9:09 p.m. post)

    LJ made a valid point about the Labor attempt at vote buying, Dave R responded by labelling a reasonable opinion aa a “hateful post", Paddington responded with “I am totally bewildered by your comment. It is not even laughable, it goes beyond that point. All I can assume is that you are making a desperate plea for your LNP party.” Mick commented that “only the party trolls, rusted on supporters and mentally challenged voters will vote for the current dictatorship in formation stage.” By what process of logic does LJs comment become offensive and those of his two critics become acceptable?

    SFR appears not to be bothered about the outlandish comments made by the Labor supporters and would appreciate LJ “not posting or commenting until after the election if you want to just scaremonger or are you worried about not getting paid per post from your LNP employer.” Why must LJ be prevented from expressing his opinion now, and how does SFR know that LJ is an employee of the Liberal Party?

    In this thread Mick twice complains about right wing trolls, obviously in his view a troll is someone who is supportive of the current government, those who support the party he represents have total immunity from such a label.

    For my part, reasonably argued alternative opinions are always welcome, arguments based upon bigotry, rudness, arrogance and intolerance is not welcome.
    maxchugg
    30th Apr 2019
    7:07pm
    Do we now have censorship on this site? I would be interested to know why my previous post was taken down – if there are any valid reasons I would like to be informed. Anyway. I will repeat what I previously said, and will continue to repeat it for as long as necessary

    Yet again, as per usual, Mick denounces as government trolls anyone who dares to not agree with his opinions (9:09 p.m. post)

    LJ made a valid point about the Labor attempt at vote buying, Dave R responded by labelling a reasonable opinion aa a “hateful post", Paddington responded with “I am totally bewildered by your comment. It is not even laughable, it goes beyond that point. All I can assume is that you are making a desperate plea for your LNP party.” Mick commented that “only the party trolls, rusted on supporters and mentally challenged voters will vote for the current dictatorship in formation stage.” By what process of logic does LJs comment become offensive and those of his two critics become acceptable?

    SFR appears not to be bothered about the outlandish comments made by the Labor supporters and would appreciate LJ “not posting or commenting until after the election if you want to just scaremonger or are you worried about not getting paid per post from your LNP employer.” Why must LJ be prevented from expressing his opinion now, and how does SFR know that LJ is an employee of the Liberal Party?

    In this thread Mick twice complains about right wing trolls, obviously in his view a troll is someone who is supportive of the current government, those who support the party he represents have total immunity from such a label.

    For my part, reasonably argued alternative opinions are always welcome, arguments based upon bigotry, rudness, arrogance and intolerance is not welcome.
    Anonymous
    1st May 2019
    4:19am
    Yes Maxchugg, we have censorship here. The Labor trolls are out in force with their rubbish and insults, but scream blue murder if anyone makes a comment that appears to be anti-Labor. Like the leaders of the party they support, they have no respect and seek to obstruct free speech (because it might expose the truth and we can't have that!)
    Anonymous
    1st May 2019
    4:19am
    Yes Maxchugg, we have censorship here. The Labor trolls are out in force with their rubbish and insults, but scream blue murder if anyone makes a comment that appears to be anti-Labor. Like the leaders of the party they support, they have no respect and seek to obstruct free speech (because it might expose the truth and we can't have that!)
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    10:27am
    O&W,as I have stated several times, I have been a swinging voter all my life. I voted Labor consistently in the days of Malcolm Fraser, switched back to Liberal in the days of Gough Whitlam with his band of idiots, with a solitary exception, his deputy, favoured Labor in the early days of John Howard, particularly after he invented the "Non core" promise and won an election by promising tax cuts, then increased taxes, earning himself the nickname of "Honest John."

    Despite all of this, Mick obviously has me branded as a wealthy, Liberal troll. I hit a nerve with Mick when I accused him of jealousy, in return received an outburst of highly defamatory comments which were allowed to remain on site, the following being a small example of what I received:

    I HAVE NO JEALOUSY of the rich but rather contempt. Contempt for avoiding paying their fair share of taxes though fraudulent deductions and loopholes put in place for the top end. The worst of these is offshore tax shelters. I assume you use this Maxchugg.
    For the record I'm not exactly poor but unlike you and your lot I'm not a crook bleeding our country and demanding the poor pay for everything the rich use for free.
    I would have no difficulty in proving to a court that even this brief extract of what I received from Mick would be deemed by a court to be defammatory. I can easily prove that I have always paid my taxes, have never used fraudulent deductions and loopholes, never used offshore tax shelters, am not acrook bleeding the country and demanding the poor pay for everything the rich use for free.

    So, right now, I am livid that when I attack the Labor trolls using their own arguments against them, I am censored while they are allowed to post the kind of foul, lying abuse that is typical of the arguments they raise. The censor on this site really needs to lift his game!
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    10:27am
    O&W,as I have stated several times, I have been a swinging voter all my life. I voted Labor consistently in the days of Malcolm Fraser, switched back to Liberal in the days of Gough Whitlam with his band of idiots, with a solitary exception, his deputy, favoured Labor in the early days of John Howard, particularly after he invented the "Non core" promise and won an election by promising tax cuts, then increased taxes, earning himself the nickname of "Honest John."

    Despite all of this, Mick obviously has me branded as a wealthy, Liberal troll. I hit a nerve with Mick when I accused him of jealousy, in return received an outburst of highly defamatory comments which were allowed to remain on site, the following being a small example of what I received:

    I HAVE NO JEALOUSY of the rich but rather contempt. Contempt for avoiding paying their fair share of taxes though fraudulent deductions and loopholes put in place for the top end. The worst of these is offshore tax shelters. I assume you use this Maxchugg.
    For the record I'm not exactly poor but unlike you and your lot I'm not a crook bleeding our country and demanding the poor pay for everything the rich use for free.
    I would have no difficulty in proving to a court that even this brief extract of what I received from Mick would be deemed by a court to be defammatory. I can easily prove that I have always paid my taxes, have never used fraudulent deductions and loopholes, never used offshore tax shelters, am not acrook bleeding the country and demanding the poor pay for everything the rich use for free.

    So, right now, I am livid that when I attack the Labor trolls using their own arguments against them, I am censored while they are allowed to post the kind of foul, lying abuse that is typical of the arguments they raise. The censor on this site really needs to lift his game!
    McDaddy
    29th Apr 2019
    9:50am
    I think the Dental Plan has a lot of merit, however I wouldn't extend it to CSHC holders as well. In my opinion I think it should be restricted to max rate pensioners under a certain liquid asset base.
    Remus38
    29th Apr 2019
    10:39am
    No idea why it should be restricted to pensioners. As a self-funded retiree with a CSHC, we will be badly hit with the potential loss of franking credits and the increase in family trust taxes, and would be glad to get a bit back. Normally Labor/Green voters, and may be still because of the objectionable LNP candidate.
    Gra
    29th Apr 2019
    11:10am
    Don't worry McDaddy, Shorten's Dental Plan won't cost the government one red cent. Anyone know of a bulk billing dentist?
    Ted Wards
    29th Apr 2019
    11:18am
    Gra the point is they want to start bulk billing dental work so if this happens yes all dentists will need to have the ability to bulk bill, just like when they introduced medicare and the scheme before that one. I think anything to help our struggling pensioners is a good idea but his proposal as usual is give with one hand whilst taking away with the other....but they all do it.
    KSS
    29th Apr 2019
    12:46pm
    Ted Wards, like GPs, dentists are small businesses and not employees of the health department. They cannot be compelled to offer bulk billing at all, either now or in the future. If they choose to do so, that is up to them, if not, then no one can do anything about it. Just like Doctors and specialists now.
    Rae
    29th Apr 2019
    1:27pm
    Maybe start with aged pensioners without a house who are renting.

    I'd include the home above a certain level too. Many aged pensioners deliberately chose to put all their savings into home upgrades and I can't see why they need to be constantly rewarded for that while the who did the right thing preparing for retirement are punished.
    Farside
    29th Apr 2019
    11:17pm
    @Gra "Anyone know of a bulk billing dentist?" ... as it turns out, yes. And apparently the wait time is not as long as you might expect. I am told less than a fortnight is usual.
    eggles01
    6th May 2019
    12:58am
    Google "how much does a dental plate cost in Australia"
    80 plus
    29th Apr 2019
    10:22am
    any help towards the outrageous medical costs must be welcomed, even by those that do not have a problem funding the health care professionals super.
    Discontented
    29th Apr 2019
    10:36am
    When Labor cuts out franking credits I will have to cancel private health care. I have dental as an extra, but I will still be a SFR excluding me from Bill's dental plan. Don't get me wrong I think the dental plan is good but where do I fit in with this. Am thinking why did I work and save all my life for this. Bracing myself for all the caustic comments.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    12:41pm
    Discontented, the green-eyed entitled will insist Shorten is a saint and what he's doing is fantastic, but in reality it's disgusting. He's attacking people like you for working and saving and depriving the nation of incentive, and thus of future growth and prosperity. It's irresponsible vote buying at its worst. And yet, I think dental health is vital and should be covered by Medicare, but not for an elite few paid for by theft.

    Where do you fit in? If you are smart, you'll buy a bigger house or find other ways to divest a little and claim a pension, because pensioners are the 'new entitled elite' in Australia, and SFRs like you are fair game for abuse, bullying, and theft of all they earned through their hard work and sacrifice.

    Take heart. $500 a year is hardly worthwhile anyway if you need significant dental treatment. And Short-on-brains is going to struggle to get his franking credit crap passed. If he does, the entire nation will be wishing he hadn't. Pensioners, in particular, will suffer big time in the longer term.
    Rae
    29th Apr 2019
    1:35pm
    No caustic comments here. I watched friends and colleagues upgrade home after home, replace the car every two years, send kids to private school and waste money hand over fist for decades. They now have valuable homes and receive the aged pension and concessions. It's not right nor fair.

    Dental plan perhaps start with renter aged pensioners.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    3:49pm
    There might be some like that Rae like with everything. A few spoil it. But most pensioners are not wealthy nor have spent their wealth along the way on luxuries
    The dental plan is also for people with Senior Health Card. So most are going to get this.
    Rae
    29th Apr 2019
    6:00pm
    Yes Paddington many do it very hard, with no breaks and deserve dental care. Let's just make sure that those who most deserve it get it first for a change.
    Dancer
    4th May 2019
    3:52pm
    And how lucky were you, Discontented, to have been able to work all your life! Many don't have that privilege or ability to do so. They are the people who really need this dental plan (amongst other things) - so they can live a decent life with decent food.

    I know of many who live on nothing but the pension (yes, surprise, no superannuation, no franking credits, no investments) and they manage to pay their private health insurance and own dental care. They pull their belts in and go without other things so they can afford it!

    I am also aware that many people are so financially disadvantaged that they can only afford the basics to live, ie a home, food, power bills and clothing. So many of those people have never had sufficient income to save in the first place.

    And what about people who have lost homes through separation/divorce and struggle to rebuild in the later years, whilst continuing to raise their children. What about people who have never been able to work through illness or disability... I could go on but won't.
    Dancer
    4th May 2019
    3:52pm
    And how lucky were you, Discontented, to have been able to work all your life! Many don't have that privilege or ability to do so. They are the people who really need this dental plan (amongst other things) - so they can live a decent life with decent food.

    I know of many who live on nothing but the pension (yes, surprise, no superannuation, no franking credits, no investments) and they manage to pay their private health insurance and own dental care. They pull their belts in and go without other things so they can afford it!

    I am also aware that many people are so financially disadvantaged that they can only afford the basics to live, ie a home, food, power bills and clothing. So many of those people have never had sufficient income to save in the first place.

    And what about people who have lost homes through separation/divorce and struggle to rebuild in the later years, whilst continuing to raise their children. What about people who have never been able to work through illness or disability... I could go on but won't.
    Discontented
    29th Apr 2019
    10:36am
    When Labor cuts out franking credits I will have to cancel private health care. I have dental as an extra, but I will still be a SFR excluding me from Bill's dental plan. Don't get me wrong I think the dental plan is good but where do I fit in with this. Am thinking why did I work and save all my life for this. Bracing myself for all the caustic comments.
    KSS
    29th Apr 2019
    12:49pm
    Oh come now Discontented, if you are a SFR then you are wealthy and deserve nothing and in fact are 'taking' from others worse off than you with your franking credits. Or at least that is what Mr Shorten and his myopic followers think.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    3:25pm
    Do you have a Seniors health card? You are not excluded if you do.
    You would certainly be eligible for this Older and Wiser.
    Bluefox
    29th Apr 2019
    10:44am
    Dental care and help for the elderly!!!!! Do others remember that back around 2012 Tanya Plibersek was Minister for Health when Labor was in power? I suffer from a chronic autoimmune disease that has robbed me of mucus glands, resulting in major dental issues. I was getting some government help with my HUGE dental bills until Labor 'canned' that allowance, now seven years on, they are promising dental help for seniors. What a joke. I bet that I am not the only one that is thousands of dollars less off trying to battle the effects of a chronic illness I did not ask for. You will not be getting my vote this time around!!
    PlanB
    29th Apr 2019
    1:34pm
    Bluefox -- you are one of the MANY that have worked hard and had many expenses -- of which -- OLDERANDWISER --- and his like say---see below -- not taking into account about the things that HAD to be done through NO fault of our own --

    ---------
    "Yes, here we go again. Reward folk who failed to plan and save and grind all those who worked hard and saved well into poverty. The politics of envy at work again. '
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    2:33pm
    And as far as I remember Plibersek was the one instrumental in freezing medicare rebates and thereby increasing costs for patients.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    7:06pm
    Digby, Are you a clone of O&W? Same words she used.
    Did you you say you are a GP?
    GeorgeM
    29th Apr 2019
    9:01pm
    Plibersek is holding back the fire till they get elected (they hope)! Maybe Shorten has asked her to lie low for now. Then she may let loose with all her Green policies.
    old frt
    29th Apr 2019
    10:45am
    Agree LJ. The self funded retiree is going to get screwed even more by the AWU's puppet . What people don't realise is we don't pay for all these freebees its our kids and grand kids. Paddington were you a teacher by any chance?
    Rae
    29th Apr 2019
    6:09pm
    While I am on a bit of a rant. Where are the very rich doctors and dentists volunteering to treat the poor for their own Soul's sake.

    Surely it's not that hard for the Hoppocratic mob to heal the bling needing cataract surgery or the poor with hurting mouths unable to eat properly. What sort of people are we making our health professionals from?
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    8:45pm
    Thanks for the laugh, Rae - that would be like expecting a lawyer to do a pro bono case for Naval asbestosis victims.... hmmmm - several hundred medical records vanished during the changeover... hmmmm .....
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    8:45pm
    Physician - heal thy wallet first!!
    GeorgeM
    29th Apr 2019
    9:05pm
    Thanks, Trebor, for some sane interjections. Rae, no accountant can ever keep up with the policy changes by both these moronic parties who take turns to stuff up retirement planning by all. Doctors, dentists, ...,bankers? Any difference re: the profit motive?
    Arvo
    29th Apr 2019
    10:55am
    'Private dentists will be able to bulk-bill up to $1000 over two years for eligible patients "
    When pensioners had the $4,000 dental subsidy under Labor, private dentists abused the system and the dental subsidy was removed by Tanya Plibersek.
    1- What measures will the Labor government adopt to stop such pilfering?
    2- $500 per year is a joke. Dentists charge that much just to clean your teeth.
    3- Pensioners need a subsidy for dentures and the pre-process that goes with it such as teeth extraction and,
    4- What about the people who are "gaggers" and can't have dentures and need implants?
    5-What about Cataract surgeries for pensioners, why isn't mentioned?

    I say to Labor, " If you are going to help ageing pensioners, then help in the right way , not in your vote buying wishy washy ways".
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    12:30pm
    Indeed dentists did -they simply billed up the $4000 by making everything done top shelf and top rate... just easy money.

    Shows more than clearly the moral stance of many in such 'professions', doesn't it? It's all about money .....
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    12:45pm
    Arvo, shop around. We just had that done for zilch. It is a winner on top of the childcare package and the cancer help.
    With our private dental cover plus this we can afford dentures. So we are pleased.
    When you are not wealthy $500 is huge!
    Arvo
    29th Apr 2019
    3:32pm
    Paddington, I did shop around and they are all the same, with 3rd party forcing of teeth cleaning before teeth repairs.
    Imagine, if a motor mechanic said to a dentist, " So, before we start to service your car we need to wash it and clean it spotless under the hood, that will be $250 thank you. If you decline the wash and clean we will not service your car". Wonder how that would go down with the dentist?
    3rd party forcing by dental and other medical entities must be outlawed!
    As, for other dental sources I found a local university who offered cheap $30-$50 dental service work by 4th year students but,all they could do is to give you a lot of gab and tooth extractions despite evidence that some teeth needed repair work and fillings that they avoided like the plague.
    People on age pension can not afford private health cover.
    Rae
    29th Apr 2019
    6:13pm
    Arvo cars cannot get very sick from bacteria or infection forced into the bloodstream. It really is important to have a clean mouth for a lot of dental work to avoid dying of septicaemia.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    7:20pm
    Arvo, we are pensioners and we have private cover. Ours works out to about $70 per week. We don’t eat out, not even coffee, neither of us drinks or smokes, we watch every cent, and we fit it into our budget. We have an old car but don’t use it much.
    GeorgeM
    29th Apr 2019
    9:12pm
    That's right, Arvo. If he wants to help Retirees, just make Age Pension Universal, and make dental part of Medicare and covered by bulk billing for all seniors. Really simple! There are 3 Million + votes (or most of them) available to whoever has the b.lls to do this!
    Why is he giving free child care instead? Wrong priorities!
    Arvo
    30th Apr 2019
    3:28pm
    Rae, cars may not get sick from bacteria or infection but the motor mechanic may get sick from the bacteria if he cuts his hand on a dirty, dusty component under the bonnet...so its really important to have all the engine components cleaned spotless under the bonnet...."That will be $250 for the wash and clean under the bonnet, thank you:.

    Paddington- that is your life choice and sacrifice. If a single full pension recipient had to spend $75 per week on Private health cover that represents 15% of his pension ($140 per fortnight). Electricity cost is 11% of the full fortnightly pension, Food for a fortnight = 13% Council rates + strata levy for home owner= 13% but if they a renter that would cost them 48% of their pension at minimum for a bedsitter.
    So the question is how would a single full pension recipient have enough in savings to afford the gap not covered by private health insurance? Sounds as though you have financial reserves to cover the gap, most age pensioner do not.

    GeorgeM- You are correct, "Wrong Priorities" because it's never about the needs and wants of the poor but about the wants and needs of wealthy politicians.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    10:56am
    The LNP government we had to have is one of the most blatant crooked ever seen in our country. It needs to be sent OUT.

    Whilst I hate the show being put on by both sides I'll always lean to promises which help average citizens over the top end of town. Add to that the current batch are unabated liars and will shred most of their promises the day after a win and what choice does one have? Only the party trolls, rusted on supporters and mentally challenged voters will vote for the current dictatorship in formation stage. If you know what's good for all average citizens then I have one work of advice: DON'T.

    As they say....you get the government you deserve.
    Old Man
    29th Apr 2019
    11:39am
    I'll preface my comment by posting a quote from Comrade MICK: "OM - I'll own up to being after your blood but its nothing personal. MICK 23/04/19"

    As can be seen by the comment, Comrade MICK always has an open mind and this is reinforced by his carefully thought out comments in this post. "The LNP government we had to have is one of the most blatant crooked ever seen in our country. " is a nice piece of propaganda but, as usual, MICK provides no examples to support his statement.

    "the current batch are unabated liars and will shred most of their promises the day after a win", unlike us mere mortals, MICK has been given the gift of seeing into the future so we must all believe his prognostications.

    As MICK has raised the subject of liars, Plibersek did a good job of lying on TV yesterday and this has been backed up by advertising. The lie that the government ripped $17B out of education. Plibersek was caught out when she tried to justify her lie when she explained that Labor in the 2013 Budget had provided for expenditure for the forward estimates and had also provided an amount past the forward estimates of $17B. The then opposition promised to honour Labor's Budget but now Plibersek is claiming that they should have honoured an unfunded, unlegislated thought bubble.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    12:08pm
    Comrade is a derogatory term.
    We are not communists who want a government that is not tearing itself apart, not governed by the far right or at least held to ransom, anti women or at least has a woman problem, likes the top end of town (yes it is evident), and the list goes on and on.
    Exaggerations abound on both sides, it is called electioneering.
    Old Man
    29th Apr 2019
    12:21pm
    If Comrade is a derogatory term, Paddington, why do union members still refer to each other as "Comrade"? These are the self same union members who not only decide who will be preselected for Labor parliamentary positions but also tell those politicians what their policies will be.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    12:46pm
    Paddo - with all due respect - I doubt there is a genuine 'woman problem' - countless women are being pumped into politics and appointed nice little earners... all you ever see on the news is more and more women being pushed into the top slots.... apparently men no longer have the merit....

    Is there, by any chance, a sunset clause on this kind of artificial pumping of certain groups - or is it just supposed to go on forever, and never once left to the will of the electorates and branches?

    Haven't, to date, seen any real performance on real issues by any such group - just a lot of feather-bedding.
    KSS
    29th Apr 2019
    12:54pm
    Paddington have you read the Labor gender policy document? Under Mr Shorten there will be no gender politics ever again because there will be no gender! By LAW!
    Old Man
    29th Apr 2019
    12:58pm
    You raise an interesting point, Bob. If we are to truly have diversity in the parliament to fully reflect the community the as well as having equal male and females then we should also have representation by ethnicity which means that there will be British 67.4%, Irish 8.7%, Italian 3.8%, German 3.7%, Chinese 3.6%, Aboriginal Australian 3.0%, Indian 1.7%, Greek 1.6%, Dutch 1.2% and Other 5.3%.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    4:03pm
    OM - the government must be desperate. I must be getting to it given you are keeping quotes en masse. Keep it coming.
    In the meantime don't much bother. This election has pretty well already been decided. Voters DO NOT TRUST this government. Its been a lying low life gutter since Abbott lied his way in and then p*ssed on the country as he tore up his promises from day one. Since then its been public money used to pursue Labor and Unions and the almost tripling of the national debt with never a word from the right wing propaganda media.

    I have no time for your troll comments OM. You are a paid member of the party machine and readers need to see how you work. i have. Deceitful........a clone of your employer.

    I can't wait till this is all over and the country gets back to proper and decent fair government, something you would not understand or care about. Yes.....your lot will try bring the country to its knees to try and get Labor thrown out. Call the governor general maybe!
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    7:11pm
    Old Man, when you address someone formally e.g.comrade OM, what are your values? It is different to saying comrades in arms meaning soldiers fighting together.
    By saying comrade Mick you were calling him a communist.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    7:22pm
    Trebor I like you but you have a woman problem lol so I doubt you could recognise it in others.
    LNP definitely has a woman problem.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    8:48pm
    Indeed, OM - we desperately need those quotas..... what's good for the goose is good for everyone else gandering outside the glass wall... I notice the feminists never discuss their self-erected glass walls due to quotas and AA etc...

    Politics of exclusion...
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    8:50pm
    Should we restrict it to ethnic origin or include religious affiliation as well? Could lead to some interesting outcomes......
    Not a Bludger
    29th Apr 2019
    10:58am
    Any retiree, who, after being biffed about by Shorten + his thug union mates by their theft of our franking credits, increased capital gains tax etc believes that he is now a “fairy godmother” to retirees (and their teeth) needs their head read.
    80 plus
    29th Apr 2019
    12:30pm
    of course the L.N.P. And its robber baron sponsors are doing a better job looking after the poor, you are the one who needs his head read. try living on a state pension or job search allowances, have some charity for other people.
    Sundays
    29th Apr 2019
    5:24pm
    You’ll never join the Pensioner queue as you call it. It means spending down Assets an you can’t change the habits of a lifetime. However, instead of being grateful for what you have, you prefer to denigrate others. Your meanest towards others is very very sad. Such exaggeration too. All those paying their own way as you put it will NOT be affected by Franking Credits. You will, we know but hey, if you’re so smart, I’m sure you can work out other options. Some pensioners and people on low incomes have no options.
    SuziJ
    29th Apr 2019
    11:02am
    But what about those of us not yet on the Age Pension or who don't hold a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, yet? We still have to pay for our dental out of our own pockets on a Disability or Carer pension!

    This plan 'should' include anyone on any government payment who is over the age of 50 or 55.

    Labor won't ever get my vote on this platform alone - it's just too little, too late and in my opinion, they don't care for us in any way!
    McDaddy
    29th Apr 2019
    11:05am
    Yes of course and the LNP are doing a stirling job in looking after you. Maybe the threeway with Clive will bring some assistance to the vulnerable. However I doubt it.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    12:05pm
    It is a start. Be grateful! Most retirees will be included.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    12:52pm
    Most retirees will NOT be included, Paddington. Hundreds of thousands are being ROBBED to fund Shorten's stupid and irresponsible splash the cash vote buying spree.

    Actually, McDaddy, Clive's policy is very strongly in favour of a total overhaul of the welfare system, including increasing the OAP by $150 a fortnight. I know which I'd choose between $150 a fortnight and $500 a year of dental work - ESPECIALLY since Clive isn't planning to push hundreds of thousands more retirees into hardship unfairly to fund his policy. He is being innovative in finding ways to increase tax take AND make all ordinary Australians better off.
    Arvo
    29th Apr 2019
    3:40pm
    McDaddy- Don't you love Clive Palmer's outburst during a recent interview?
    "I'm 4,000-times wealthier than you, I don't give a stuff about you or anyone else!"
    ...but, vote for me anyway....hee, hee, ha,ha,ha!
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    4:09pm
    Clive Palmer is not okay. He owes money to his employees. He did not turn up to parliament and went to sleep in parliament. He buys his spot with his money.
    He won’t be voted in because workers deserve to be paid.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    4:13pm
    OlderandWiser, unless your income exceeds over $50,000 for a single or over $80000 for a couple you are entitled to a Senior Health Card. I have assumed few people have more than that per annum. I am grateful for my pension and do not envy or begrudge anyone lucky enough to have more. Happiness does not equate to money it is about family. So long as those I love are safe I am ecstatic.
    Bluefox
    29th Apr 2019
    4:28pm
    My reply about Health Cards is further down the page as I forgot to press the reply button. My comment was about prescriptions being cheaper, however card holders are being slogged at the doctor's rooms. I am told that if I travel out of town to a remote surgery I may not have to pay such a huge gap!!!!
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    4:46pm
    Wow! Government posts en masse. Desperadoes trying to farm those who have left.

    It won't work because the government has had 6 years in office and all it could do is run Royal Commissions against Labor and unions, destabilise and get rid of Independents, give huge tax cuts to wealthy supporters, turn full time jobs into several part time jobs, run up unimaginable debt and try to build coal fired power generators whilst trying to close down everything using the words 'renewable' despite it being scientifically proven that renewable energy is already cheaper than coal fired power.

    I have no more time for this crooked government or its paid stooges who, after quite an absence, have all shown up on this website because the election is almost upon us.
    Try your best trolls. Too late. We all understand how your employer works, who he serves and what he is doing to the country. Bring on the election!
    Sundays
    29th Apr 2019
    5:12pm
    Well said Mick.
    Farside
    29th Apr 2019
    11:45pm
    Mick, the pro-Government posts have taken on a new energy since the story of ScoMo's incident at the Engadine Maccas in 1997 came to light.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    5:30pm
    Sundays says "Well said Mick", I say "Change the record" Mick.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    5:30pm
    Sundays says "Well said Mick", I say "Change the record" Mick.
    McDaddy
    29th Apr 2019
    11:02am
    Remus38 because as a CSHC holder you can have taxable income + deeming of superannuation income stream of app $87500 PA. To put that into some perspective, if you are retired and all your Super is in an Income Stream, you can have up to app $2.7m in total bewtween a couple and get a CSHC. You are not in a vulnerable state and require a Dental hand out.
    Rae
    29th Apr 2019
    1:48pm
    Renting aged pensioners should go first. They have no assets usually. Also the homeless who really need helping even more. Newstart pensioners are even worse off.

    Full aged pensioners can have a $10 million house and are not in a vulnerable state either.

    Perhaps this needs to be sorted out a bit further.
    Jim
    29th Apr 2019
    3:52pm
    I agree with many of the comments about who should be looked after first, ie pensioners on the base pension who are renting, the homeless, not sure about those on Newstart they are meant to be on benefits temporarily, unless there is a reason that they are long term recipients, in particular there are many older women that are in difficulties through family break downs, the family home shouldn’t come into it a home in Sydney nowadays can be worth well over a million dollars, but it’s still just a home the asset value might be high, but that asset can’t be realised unless you sell it.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    4:50pm
    Rae: how many pensioners would you think had anywhere even approaching a $10 million house. These people would have put aside money so that they do not need a pension.
    I always find it interesting that pensioners who do not own a homes are put at the top of the pile. Do you not realise that MANY self funded retirees earn around or less than the pension? These people are living off an asset they have accumulated over a life time but are not 'rich'. I always think it mat be envy when I see post lumping all retirees into 2 camps. Its not what it seems.
    Rae
    29th Apr 2019
    6:30pm
    Yes Mick. I get your point. The whole thing is ridiculous. We are a fiat currency nation 48 years after the gold standard. There is no reason to not to train dentists, set up clinics and fix teeth as it won't cause inflation. It's so frustrating living in a society based on decisions from beliefs, thinking and feeling instead of pure colds facts.
    Gra
    29th Apr 2019
    11:05am
    How many dental practices are there that offer bulk billing? I am not aware of any in my area.
    McDaddy
    29th Apr 2019
    11:16am
    The Policy says "private dentists WILL BE able to bulk bill" over 2 years. Pretty straight forward really.
    Old Man
    29th Apr 2019
    11:47am
    Yes McDaddy, "WILL BE able to" doesn't quite have the same ring of confidence as "WILL BE required to". Gra is correct in pointing out that dentists don't bulk bill.
    MITZY
    29th Apr 2019
    4:15pm
    Its an election proposal and all this waffle is worthless if after 18th May we are left with the same old, same old, same old. Being an election proposal it will have to written into the existing Medicare legislation. Its $1,000 over two years (24 months) i.e. if it comes into being you could use that $1,000 for something major in the first month or two and then of course for the other months (all 22 of them) you would have to pay for your dental visits yourself. Again if it happens it is covering 2.6 million people on the age pension PLUS another 380,000 who hold C.S.H.C. will get the same benefit. It is suggested it is only the start of a future dental scheme for all. I wouldn't worry about the dentists bulk billing up to that $1,000 there will always be dentists willing to do so just as there will be dentists who wont. Same as medical practitioners. If a person is putting off going to the dentist because they have more pressing bills to pay and cost of living to pay and then along comes the plumber/electrician/home maintenance man to fix things you can't fix yourself, then $1,000 towards getting a a check-up, x-rays, a filling or the like is nothing to be "sneezed at". Every little bit helps the pensioner in rental accommodation, the ones on the "street" and the single age pensioner who is NOT in that state of poverty due to circumstances beyond his/her control. There are many pensioners who have had unfortunate experiences in life, health issues stopping them from working for considerable times or even losing their life savings for various reasons. Not all of them have wasted their money through their lifetimes. When you listen to stories depicted on TV programs of unfortunate circumstances befalling "many" and a lot of bad luck too, how about for a change we try to analyse what both major parties are offering and comment on the substance. So many times I want to comment but don't bother because of the venom expressed. I doubt 90% of commentators here would not say half of what they espouse if they were face to face.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:17pm
    MITZY - I can't believe you are complaining because you are being given something. Some people are impossible to please. You may wish to reflect on what the government is offering: higher taxes to fund more irrational debt and further handouts to the rich.
    Be grateful for being given anything.
    MITZY
    30th Apr 2019
    4:09pm
    Mick: I can't believe you think I was complaining. You must have run your eye over my post in a "flash" and not read it properly. I was trying to indicate to everyone that the proposal was for up to $1,000 over two years and not $500 for each of those two years. I've mentioned so many who will benefit from it and I have advocated for dental to be included in Medicare benefits year after year. Recently made a statement to COTA in response to one of their surveys. After all your teeth inside your mouth are part of your body and should not be excluded. If you have to have your tonsils out, for instance, they are in your mouth and there is no exclusion for tonsils.
    wabbo
    29th Apr 2019
    11:07am
    This is an excellent idea . Dental should be on Medicare for everyone anyway.
    BERRYUPSET
    29th Apr 2019
    11:17am
    tis in the UK!!
    SFR
    29th Apr 2019
    4:26pm
    Totally agree wabbo, should of been introduced years ago but once introduced we can see it growing even better.
    Unfortunately a few on this site (especially O&W) express their opinion that it's an insult to introduce dental care no matter how minor it may be. Total selfish ingrates just because it's ALP policy & not LNP policy.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:19pm
    $500 a year is 2 fillings. Be grateful as the alternative is higher taxes to fund the next tax giveaway to corporations and the wealthy.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    8:55pm
    Quite right, many... what needs to be seriously looked at is how tax revenue is derived by government firstly - and then what they actually spend it on.

    Obviously something is wrong when there is a (created) 'need' to constantly borrow more and more with very little actually coming out of it for the future. F-35s and new submarines at the cost of what? How much defence procurement no longer comes under the defence budget - remember 46 ministers for 73 seats..... amazing... if it were a ship at sea it would roll over ..... too top-heavy.... and too costly.

    What do all these 'ministers' actually do for their money? Can't be much .....
    nameste
    29th Apr 2019
    11:09am
    Any little bit helps, but $500 would only pay for the annual dental check and clean at my dentist. Getting teeth actually fixed, wouldn’t even start to impact that at all, so wording (“if you cannot get your teeth fixed you are deprived of the simple joys”) of this “promise” is very misleading!
    Jenny
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    12:46pm
    Change your dentist!
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:38pm
    Rubbish nameste. A filling is worth around $250 and nobody should expect a full set of dental implants or the like. Whilst not over generous what do you expect? Maybe ask the last 3 PM what they did for you other than allow your taxes to increase and run up the national debt whilst handing out your money to the top end of town in huge tax cuts.
    Be grateful!
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    10:24pm
    Mick, what I expect is to be allowed to use the money I earned and saved, and not be robbed blind and then handed a pathetic excuse for 'welfare' with a pack of stinking lies. Let people work and earn and keep a fair reward and we wouldn't need all these stupid bribes. Poverty has increased in line with welfare expenditure, because handouts that cheat those who strive create a welfare mentality and stuff the economy.
    tisme
    29th Apr 2019
    11:12am
    1000.00 a year or 500.00 for 6 months , 500.00 is two fillings at a private dentist. as for the public system ive been waiting 7 years and I am now on the down hill slide to false teeth , which if I cant get implants will mean damage to my gums etc due to tmj and clenching in my sleep . I dont trust any politician more so in the run up to an election . pity they cant be done for fraud if they dont do what they have promised
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    4:14pm
    KSS Teachers Union!
    Old Man
    29th Apr 2019
    11:16am
    QUOTE: “critically important that a Labor government works with the ADA in developing the finer details … as there are a number of issues that need to be addressed to ensure a smooth implementation and greatest uptake of the scheme”

    Another thought bubble it seems from Shorten who has not done any background on the policy to see if it will actually work. No mention of whether dentists will bulk bill to help those eligible for the scheme and no information on how much dentistry costs or if dentists will have their fees regulated. If this is supposed to be a sweetener to appease those 900,000 voters who will lose an average of $2,700 each and every year, it falls well short of the mark.

    This policy announcement is similar to the childcare announcement which will certainly raise childcare costs as greedy providers will increase prices. Shorten will be keeping an eye on those childcare providers who will raise prices and that is sure to run a shiver up their spines. Add to the childcare announcements the policy to increase the pay of each and every childcare worker without stating who will pay for the cost when the answer is, the user.
    Adrianus
    29th Apr 2019
    12:28pm
    As we get closer to 18th May, and Bill sinks into the quicksand pit of his own making, we will see more "flying by the seat of his pants statements." Labor like to call it saving the furniture, however, just as Kevin Rudd in the dying days of the last election, promised a new low company tax rate of just 15% for the NT, it looked a lot more like BS.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    12:52pm
    Ah, yes - the good old Dentist's Union.... a privileged and self-interested Union at its best.... but a 'better class' than those filthy manual workers with their Unions, eh?

    Sort of like a gentlemen's club of a Union, innit?

    Anyone gunning for them or the AMA, or the nurses Union or the firies and coppers Unions, along with the business council and such? Or is it just the 'lower class' unions and unionists who must be brought to heel?
    KSS
    29th Apr 2019
    12:58pm
    Aren't ALL unions 'privileged and self interested' TREBOR? Name even one that isn't!
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:40pm
    More of the same right wing posts from OM.
    Now even handouts to the needy are offensive. Under OM's government all you get is tax cuts for the wealthy, new taxes for everybody else and services we all need cut down to a shadow of their former selves.
    Troll on OM!
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:01pm
    I forgot the teacher's union, KSS - no, most Unions of workers are not 'privileged' - though some of their honchoes may be. As a job it has become less of a service to members and more in line with a 'political career' with countless perks and beautiful super and such....

    You need not to kick the rocks, but turn them over.... this kind of thing exists on all sides, with 'entitlement' being the driving force...

    "we create jobs, so we are ENTITLED to not pay tax" ...

    "we spend our life serving the people so we are ENTITLED to massive perks"...

    "we run a Union defending our members and workers, so we are ENTITLED to mega salary and perks"

    "we (all) get paid less than CEOs, so we are ENTITLED to a few perks to catch up a bit"....

    It goes on and on.... so much for the Age of Entitlement being over.... in Tony's dreams....
    KSS
    30th Apr 2019
    6:51am
    Even the Teacher's union is privileged and self interested, just like all the unions are. THAT IS THEIR JOB! They want what they want and they want it now!
    Ok
    29th Apr 2019
    11:20am
    It looks almost all Australian don't want the new Labor triple tax. Workers already pay over 30% whilst working and then in retirement, they must pay another 30% on dividends from their retirement savings and then another 10% GST! Labor invented a way to tax every Australian worker by over 70%. It seems that Labor hates workers more than anyone else!
    80 plus
    29th Apr 2019
    11:47am
    The G.S.T.tax was introduced by the Howard Government and commenced on 1 July 2000, This tax on most goods and services is the main reason the poor are getting poorer, any help is a step in the right direction. $500 a year will help me.
    Old Man
    29th Apr 2019
    12:33pm
    There is another way that workers may be taxed, Ok, the Greens and a front bench Labor, Andrew Leigh, want to reintroduce death taxes. Do we hear the cry: "There will be no death taxes under the government I lead!"
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    12:56pm
    Maybe we should get companies to pay 30%... that'd take the pressure off the workers who average over 30%... sounds fair to me....

    OM - anything with dollars attached, under the ideological stance that 'all power resides in the State, and the right to private property is a bourgeois sentiment', the ordinary person owns nothing, but must be, perforce, a slave and vassal to the state, gathering together a home and retirement, but only at the whim of the state, and subject to the state taking it back when it needs to....

    We need a massive overhaul of the underlying disease(s) of Australian governance culture... the perpetuation of a 'master/servant' system by several definitions - take two revolutions with food and call me in the morning if it doesn't get any better....
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    1:13pm
    Yes 80 plus, the majority of the Australian people voted for the introduction of the GST., and elected the Howard Government to do it. The Howard Government was elected and lasted for many more years , with being the GST being one major part of their policies.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    1:24pm
    Today I spoke to someone in the building industry and he said most in the industry will vote against Labor because the industry will suffer a $250 billion hit if Labor policies succeed.

    Yes, Old Man. we'll see tax, tax, tax, tax, and more tax under Labor, until the fools who thought money grew on trees and applauded billions of dollars to buy votes wake up that there is no bottomless pit.

    I'd like to see all those who are suffering loss of franking credit refunds queue up for a pension - all on the same day, armed with a statement of comparison of their projected retirement income if they retain their savings vs if they up big and put their hand out, and a similar comparison of the comparative cost to the nation. I think a lot of idiots would get a massive wakeup call. But maybe those idiots KNOW the truth already. More likely their policy has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with political control.
    SFR
    29th Apr 2019
    4:38pm
    O&W, the que is short. I can only see you there. & if you are entitled to an OAP or part pension the great, I have no issues with my taxes being spent on those that need it including you.
    There is absolutely nothing for me from any party but as a SFR I class myself as okay & am happy with my life.
    Have a good day O&W maybe tomorrow you'll wake up on the correct side of the bed
    Sundays
    29th Apr 2019
    5:31pm
    I’m an SFR too, and I’m also happy with my lot. We would actually be better off with some of the Liberal policies, but my children and grandchildren won’t. We will all know soon enough who gets in.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:41pm
    Rubbish ok. Yours in another government troll comment.
    Lets talk MORE tax cuts for the wealthy and increasing taxes under a new LNP government. That's the reality.
    adbob
    29th Apr 2019
    11:21am
    "people on the Age Pension"

    So if you've already had your part pension stolen by ScoMo (When he was treasurer) with not a squeak from knee-jerk Shorten you won't get a penny.

    My vote will be a destroyed ballot paper - even though I used to be ( a long time ago) a Labor party member.

    I recommend everyone, irrespective of former allegiance, do the same.

    It's the only way to show both major parties that there is a cohort with a swag of votes waiting to be collected by the party that promises (at least) to do the right thing by them. The major parties are taking their rusted-on support for granted and trying to win the new snowflake vote by pork-barrelling it with money stolen from us.

    Both parties are attacking the cohort of workers and savers who were fooled by Paul er y'know Keating (a neocon bully-boy who hi-jacked the Labor party along with his mate Hawke - who just sold a $14.5 million dollar house) into working and saving in order to *supplement* their supposedly inadequate age pension - not to replace it and save the government from paying it.

    Compare with the rest of the developed world - this rip-off is (great oft-repeated slogan) "uniquely Australian".

    Be careful destroying your ballot paper. A carefully drawn set of male genitals in the box of the person you dislike the most will actually count as a vote for them.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    1:13pm
    Don't adbob. Look at the minors. UAP has some really impressive policies and so do the Conservatives. They might be far from ideal, but we need to balance the extremes right now. We don't have really good solutions available, but we can create a balance of power that will stop the most destructive policies getting passed. UAP, Conservative, Australian Seniors, and even One Nation Senators will force whichever party holds power to temper its policies, and that's the best we can hope for right now. Plus, voting for minors and independents sends a strong message to the majors that the electorate has had enough, and won't tolerate their arrogance any longer.
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    1:40pm
    I like your thinking OlderandWiser, as both the major parties have lost their lustre for me. (I always put Labor last and Greens second to last, and ScoMo is too religious for me.) I wonder if the Nick Xenophon Alliance will be wielding candidates in my electorate, I always though off him as a sound thinker. I also very much like Fiona Patten and the Reason Party but I suspect they only wield candidates for state elections.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    3:35pm
    Given the candidates in this area, Digby, UAP is the ONLY option worth considering. That led me to re-examine a party I had dismissed and really had no time for, and I found that UAP is very different from PUP. It's very much driven by the candidates themselves, not Palmer, and their policies are impressive. I'd like to see them do well in the Senate - along with the Australian Conservatives. I don't think I'd want either of those parties in power, but they serve well to temper the extremes of Labor and Liberal. And One Nation will protect retirees from Shorten's vile, dishonest and unfair attack on franking credit refunds. Given that they definitely won't have enough clout to push their own extreme policies, I think they will serve us well as moderators, which is what we need.

    In the Senate, it's imperative that Labor and Green be last with Libs next last. I will look at Xenophon Alliance again. A strong mix of mostly near-to-centre-thinkers is what is needed. If we can block both far right and far left, there's hope for Australia yet.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:44pm
    adbob - if you don't vote then you ensure the bastards win.
    Shorten may not be Santa Claus but the alternative is the next phase of rich mans tax cuts - corporations get their turn at the feeding trough and YOU pay. You need to be realistic....and if you vote Independent then just make sure your pick is not a defacto LNP candidate like Clive Palmer whose vote will be flowing straight to the government.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:06pm
    Government borrows billions to pay for the tax billions vanishing offshore by the ship load..... that's the reality of the global economy.

    No wonder Trump mooted a minimum corporate tax of 30%.... however, the US has a sliding scale of taxation for companies, and a tax holiday for two years for start-ups..... so I assume he meant 'offshore companies/corporations'.

    We need to consider the same. I mean - let's be real for a moment - how much R & D does Pear Computers need to do to set up a sales venue in every major Australian city? HOW many billions did you say? And all this R & D is not dedicated to developing production or industry or infrastructure here in Oz? **(politician/public servant reaches for rubber stamp....)**
    GeorgeM
    29th Apr 2019
    9:17pm
    adbob, destroying your ballot paper destroys your own voice without anyone being wiser what you wanted! Listen to OAW, don't vote for the current seat-huggers of the Major parties (or the Greens), and use your voting preferences wisely instead. UAP is building up as a good protest vote - nothing wrong with his policies (matches what many of us say), however it's your choice.
    mogo51
    29th Apr 2019
    11:23am
    Well I need this at the moment because I had a bridge at front 2 teeth removed last week. Cost to replace $1500.
    Have to wait 12 months through Medicare as I can't afford the other.
    But the octopus Labor spending arms are in full swing.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:47pm
    Be happy with a few bob mogo51. The government trolls above are trying to imply $500 a year is zip. I mean that's what the Turnbull (huge) tax cuts for the wealthy gave to workers on $80,000 a year to get this perverse legislation across the line. Stupid people were happy??????
    Grecia
    29th Apr 2019
    11:25am
    Would rather save and pay to go to dentist which by the way is free for Seniors than vote for Dollar Bill. Wont compromise my integrity.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    12:58pm
    Only a very limited range of dental treatments are available through the free service, Grecia... even dentures are not included.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    5:31pm
    It is hopeless where we live, gave it a try a few times, nothing was attended to, so had to go to the regular dentist anyway.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:48pm
    By all means vote for rich man's government again. The worst government in our history. If you had ethics you could not vote for malicious, lying, crooked bunch.
    Theo1943
    29th Apr 2019
    6:00pm
    Trebor, I have been on the dental service list for years. I am required to pay 25% of some mythical recommended fee. A set of upper dentures cost me less than $300, all of which was refunded by my health fund with whom I only have ancillaries cover.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:08pm
    Not too bad, Theo.... your private fund you say? Does that mean you won't get Bill's $500?
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:10pm
    I've got a partial upper in need of replacement - bloody RAAF half back head butted me when I tackled him and broke three - back when this was not a simple task... and some dopey government dentist took out three perfectly whole teeth instead.. he said to prevent some other problem.... What??

    Now it's plate and/or inserts... the guv won't pay for those.
    Farside
    29th Apr 2019
    11:50pm
    Trebor, you should have known better than to tackle a RAAF half-back. Some jobs are best left to those who can :D

    and p.s. it was probably a RAAF dentist!
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    9:34pm
    No, it is not free, not where I live anyway. There is a nominal fee but that’s is not the issue. They don’t seem to do anything. We have tried them a few times but come away with nothing been done and had to go to a regular visit to get it fixed.
    mogo51
    29th Apr 2019
    11:32am
    Further to my previous post. I had to pay $265 to get the bridge removed, took 10 minutes. So that equals $1500 an hour.
    I am coming back as a dentist next life. You don't even need a gun for the rob!!!
    adbob
    29th Apr 2019
    11:35am
    @mogo51

    Definitions:

    An alcoholic is: Someone who drinks more than their doctor.

    A rich person is: Someone who has more money than their dentist.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:49pm
    Good one.
    SFR
    29th Apr 2019
    11:51am
    good scheme to include dental as it's a health issue, should of been addressed years ago
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:51pm
    LNP government would NEVER EVER make any offers to help ordinary Australians. Now that Labor has made the offer the government trolls above are out for blood. Struth, what is the meaning of the word 'free'?
    Anonymous
    30th Apr 2019
    9:14am
    The LNP is focused on fixing the mess Labor's stupid excessive gifts created so that we can ALL prosper, but Labor wants to destroy prosperity completely for all who work and live responsibly and give token handouts to bribe the useless.
    Farside
    30th Apr 2019
    7:15pm
    History will point the finger at Howard and Costello when it comes to stupid excessive gifts. It was these profligate spenders who were responsible for squandering the once-in-a-generation economic windfall from the resources boom, sold off productive government assets and the gold reserves at bargain prices and then spent the cash on massive tax cuts for the wealthy instead of channelling its windfall into a national wealth fund and spending on infrastructure.
    SFR
    29th Apr 2019
    11:51am
    good scheme to include dental as it's a health issue, should of been addressed years ago
    Old Geezer
    29th Apr 2019
    11:52am
    Sounds similar to kids dental to me and that $2000 per 2 years only covers check ups and cleans.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:53pm
    BS. $2000 is $2000. Clean your own bloody teeth correctly and you won't need remediation OG.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:13pm
    Got the 'lectric brush and use mouth wash first, brush with it, then second brush with paste get right into gums ... get your tongue, too, top and bottom and inside your cheeks ... a pink tongue is a healthy one... that white one... brrrrrrr.....
    Rosret
    30th Apr 2019
    8:57am
    If only that were true MICK.
    The kids dental does help. However there is a whole range of other dental issues children have as they emerge crooked and impacted etc.
    What we do need is dental charges reduced as the profession is holding the general public to ransom.
    Giving rebates to people only facilitates their salary explosion and pushes up the cost for the rest of us who get no benefits.
    Batara
    29th Apr 2019
    12:04pm
    One really would have to wonder why anyone in our age group would vote for the chaotic Coalition. On the one hand we have Labor offering compassion and assistance to ordinary people. On the other side you have a clown who is as genuine as a $3 coin doing all he can to protect wealthy individuals who are well able to care for themselves. A clear choice for people who have the wisdom that comes with age.
    Old Geezer
    29th Apr 2019
    12:11pm
    ROFL
    Discontented
    29th Apr 2019
    12:38pm
    you are funny Batara
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    1:22pm
    Agree with older and wiser, Batara you certainly missed out on the wisdom gene. You are clearly easily fooled, and gullible The clear choice is not to vote for $3 coin Slimy Bill (I mean would you buy a used car from that man). Why would anyone vote for such smiling assassin. His front bench are enough to ensure they are not worth a vote. Not that I am any great advocate for ScoMo because of his sill fundamentallst religion, which will influence policy (remember Abbott and RU-486 medication). But the quandary is we have an outstanding LNP in my electorate.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    3:16pm
    Oustanding LNP in your electorate, Digby? We have a useless, mealy-mouthed Nationals idiot who can't control his urges to say dumb things that will anger voters; a lazy, overpaid seat-warming Shorten's puppet; a ratbag extremist Green who wants to abolish gender, cars and houses; and a rather grounded and impressive United Australia candidate. Doesn't take much thinking to figure which should get my vote.
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    3:28pm
    I take your point O&W but you are clearly not in my electorate. Are you in the electorate with George Christensen? (Spent nearly a year in the Philippines on full pay!!) As I am sure you can understand I don't really want ScoMo, but the (female) LNP candidate here is very high quality.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    3:48pm
    Of course you have to vote for the best candidate in your area, Digby. If that's an LNP, by all means support them. It's in the Senate, I think, where we have to be very careful to put Labor, Greens and LNP low down the list and get lots of near-to-centre minors and independents to moderate the extremes of the far-right and far-left.
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    3:59pm
    Thank you O&W, you have helped clear up my quandary. I shall follow your advice in the Senate Ballot. Like you I don't necessarily want any of the minor parties in power, but would like to seem them have a presence in the Senate to temper extremist policies.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    5:43pm
    Well said Batara and you have the right to say it without being subjected to abuse.
    The cancer help, the help with childcare, the help for the lowest paid, dental help for most oldies, provide sufficient reason to vote for a united party. The alternative is a disorganised governed by the right too often mess. We only have two parties here LNP or Labor to govern. By suggesting people vote for alternatives to mess up future government is destructive because they cannot rule and unless one of the good ones causes disruption. There are a few far right ones in the independents. Some minor parties are neo Nazis but their name does not suggest this.
    Greens are fine too because not a lot will get in and their policy on climate change will help push this along. They are particularly good in the senate. First day of voting someone has said people are voting Greens.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:55pm
    Batara - good post and factual. All the negative comments are from government funded posters. Never seen most of these names before and given its 3 weeks to the election not unsurprising.
    YLC should not allow paid advertising. Its wrong.
    Batara
    29th Apr 2019
    12:04pm
    One really would have to wonder why anyone in our age group would vote for the chaotic Coalition. On the one hand we have Labor offering compassion and assistance to ordinary people. On the other side you have a clown who is as genuine as a $3 coin doing all he can to protect wealthy individuals who are well able to care for themselves. A clear choice for people who have the wisdom that comes with age.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    1:05pm
    One would have to wonder how anyone could be gullible enough to swallow Labor's lies and vote to give such irresponsible morons control of the national purse strings. Read KSS's post below. Labor is STEALING from the people whose efforts are helping the budget, pushing them closer and closer to hardship and pensioner status, to fund IDIOTIC UNREALISTIC vote buying that offers NOTHING..

    If any wisdom came with age, NOBODY would vote for a mob of socialist fools who think you can spend a $6.8 billion a year+++ out of a savings of $3.5 billion a year----.

    You only have to look at the franking credit policy that claims to take HALF the claimed savings from people WHO WON'T BE IMPACTED BY THE POLICY to see how irresponsible Labor is. They will wreck the nation, and the needy will suffer most.

    And BTW. I agree the chaotic Coalition is toxic. Which is why we need BOTH major parties put last on the ballot sheet. Evaluate the minor parties and independents carefully, because if we don't have plenty of people in there intent on 'keeping the bastards honest', we will have total economic destruction.
    Sundays
    29th Apr 2019
    5:40pm
    Sounding very desperate O&W! We have a democracy and people will vote for who they want. Show some respect! Your doom and gloom posts are nonsense
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    5:57pm
    quite so Sundays but we have a whole pile of posters straight from Liberal Party HQ posting the same BS today. I suspect an election is coming and ANYTHING Shorten does will be shouted down.
    I applaud Labor making an offer to help retirees. Well done.
    Anonymous
    1st May 2019
    4:16am
    Mick, how can you applaud someone for screwing hundreds of thousands of honest hard working retirees who have saved and planned their whole lives to SAVE money for taxpayers? Boggles the mind. As for posting BS from Liberal Party HQ - 90% of the posts on this site are straight from Labor Party HQ and are such BS that they stink all the way to the North Pole.
    Anonymous
    1st May 2019
    4:16am
    Mick, how can you applaud someone for screwing hundreds of thousands of honest hard working retirees who have saved and planned their whole lives to SAVE money for taxpayers? Boggles the mind. As for posting BS from Liberal Party HQ - 90% of the posts on this site are straight from Labor Party HQ and are such BS that they stink all the way to the North Pole.
    SFR
    1st May 2019
    9:38am
    repeat repeat repeat, post once post once post once
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    5:46pm
    SFR, my posts always come up twice yet I am extremely careful to only hit "Post Reply" once.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    5:46pm
    SFR, my posts always come up twice yet I am extremely careful to only hit "Post Reply" once.
    GeorgeM
    2nd May 2019
    11:26pm
    maxchugg, you and OAW may be double-clicking instead of clicking once (being a button, not a program or a file you are trying to open) and patiently waiting for the response.
    Old Geezer
    29th Apr 2019
    12:12pm
    2 Check ups and cleans costs me over $500 a year so nothing left for anything else.
    Young
    29th Apr 2019
    12:17pm
    Where is all the money coming from?????
    Tax,tax,tax.
    Adrianus
    29th Apr 2019
    12:35pm
    We want to know where it is all going??? More training for union officials? Increased foreign aid? But that would only account for a small portion. I would like to see more money spent on a new department of forensic accountants, running independently of government.
    McDaddy
    29th Apr 2019
    12:39pm
    Savings from abolishing franking credits for some retirees, begative gearing changes etc. neither government needs to prove thjey can pay for their plocies anymore, don't be worried about it. Current gov has increased the deficit when it suited.
    Discontented
    29th Apr 2019
    12:41pm
    From people that have worked and saved all their lives
    SFR
    29th Apr 2019
    5:18pm
    Agree Adrianus, more money spent on a new department of forensic accountants, running independently of government & focus on the top end of town first & make all those 69 millionaires who didn't pay 1 cent in tax as previously reported pay tax & fines as well as make all those companies who haven't paid for years but made profits in Australia pay tax.
    australia will be in surplus within weeks
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    6:00pm
    WHERE ARE ALL THE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH COMING FROM Young?
    Ta tax tax!
    Pick your poison. Yours is clearly the worst government in history trying its best to bring in its dictatorship and government for the wealthy ideology.
    Adrianus
    30th Apr 2019
    10:08am
    Labor still lives in the 60's. The Battlers they are attacking don't look anything like they did in the 60's.
    Anonymous
    1st May 2019
    4:11am
    Well we know where Labor will get money for tax cuts for the rich. From POOR self-funded retirees. Tax tax tax tax tax tax and lie through their teeth pretending they are being 'FAIR' by stealing from battlers to give to the rich and those who manipulate to claim pensions they don't really need.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    12:26pm
    Ayte, 'tis the time of the sweeteners... promises, promises...

    Love the young indoctrinateds standing behind with all the posters... too many questions to be raised... oh - and look at that .... mostly young women of all kinds.......... how unusual for uni quadrangle sidewalk cafe latte Labor these days.

    One could be forgiven for thinking that was the only game in town. How many years must this go on and on, special privileges handed out left and right on demand to 'minority groups', while the country goes to rack and ruin?
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    5:44pm
    Ah Trebor a woman has sure harmed you! Sorry for that mate.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:17pm
    Paddington,you say? You may know her...... used to work for Bob Carr.....

    All the 'feminist' movement came about through grievance - it's time all grievances got equal billing, is all..... continually feeding more and more made up grievances is helping nobody... and every time one demand is satisfied by meek surrender, this is just a stepping stone for the next and the next and so on.

    Gotta say NO some time...
    Rosret
    29th Apr 2019
    12:35pm
    $500 would be really nice. I can't even smile at my dentist for that sort of money but I guess it will pay for an extraction if necessary.
    Farside
    30th Apr 2019
    12:01am
    it's not hard to seek a second or third dentist to quote, not all offer a gold plated service and $1000 will see you good for two years
    Rosret
    30th Apr 2019
    9:09am
    Haha - good luck with that one. I went to a cheaper dentist. Two hours of agony $300 and then back to the good dentist and got it fixed for $1600 so I really could have saved myself $300.
    Dental is reasonably on young teeth - as you get older it gets more and more costly if you want to save them. Then you hand over your top cover card for a refund and it is either denied or you get about $40 on a $300 bill. - and that really gets to me.
    Its not rebates (while nice) that is needed - something needs to be looked into from dentist salaries, to insurance cover, to school dental checks etc etc.
    Rebates are a bandaid strip and they serve no purpose other than to allow dentists to further increase their fees.
    Farside
    30th Apr 2019
    2:33pm
    Rosret, I'm not saying that you won't get fewer bells and whistles but much more affordable and still a job done to Australian standards.
    KSS
    29th Apr 2019
    12:41pm
    This is another of Mr Shorten's thought bubbles masquerading as policy. Either he hasn't thought this through (most likely) or he is deliberately misinforming the electorate.

    "Private dentists will be able to bulk-bill up to $1000 over two years for eligible patients under Medicare and amounts above the $1000 may still be covered by health insurance.

    “It will not come out of your bank account. It will not go on your credit card. You will not have to delay treatment because you can't afford the care,” said Mr Shorten. “It will be covered by your Medicare card."

    So based on this quote, how many people think they won't have to pay for dental care under a Labor Government? WRONG!! For a start not everyone (even pensioners) will be covered, then it is only an average $500 a year for two years - or you can access the whole $1000 in a single year leaving nothing for the following year, should the treatment cost more than the $500 (or $1000) then you either pay up, (as now) or your health cover pays some and you pay the gap if there is one (again as now).

    That means that if you need say a root canal with a cap you are still going to have to pay since this costs a great deal more than the rebate on offer! And one way or another you will pay.

    Mr Shorten says it will be paid for from the changes to negative gearing. For the sake of argument, the negative gearing savings are predicted to 'save'; $35b over 10 years according to Labor. Again for the ease of argument, let's average that to $3.5b a year for 10 years. Mr Shorten claims theses dental care costs will amopunt to $2.4b. Also this weekend, and from the same amount of $3.5b savings, Mr Shorten promised $4.4b in child care rebates and higher child care worker wages. That makes a total in just a single weekend of promised expenditure of $6.8b against a saving of $3.5b.

    Now whilst I agree in principle that EVERYONE (not just pensioners) should have access to good dental care, and I also agree that child care workers are horribly underpaid (they are among the lowest paid in the country along with aged care workers), it seems to me that Mr Shorten is telling porkies somewhere along the line. His numbers just don't add up as even a cursory glance can tell.

    It all sounds fine and dandy but he is already spending more than he has or will get assuming all his new taxes are passed through parliament (should he win the election of course). He has over spent on the franking credits which he said would pay for a lot of new nurses, except it won't by about half a billion dollars.

    I hope Mr Shorten is held to account during this afternoon's debate to explain exactly how he is going to pay for all these promises without the constant double dipping into a single supposed tax saving. We the voting public have a right to know, especially as we are going to be paying for all the promises.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    1:03pm
    The full gamut of what actually constitutes 'welfare' (as opposed to social security - a separate issue entirely) needs to be looked at.

    Childcare subsidies are welfare - but like most such tings, have become so entrenched that the moment they are pulled, will lead to crying across the land about 'poor women' and people being thrown out of jobs etc.

    Such things are not properly the duty of government..... and actually add to the economic problems rather than fixing them. It'd take a book.. haven't got the time right now.
    Lescol
    29th Apr 2019
    12:53pm
    How insulting can it get?? As a SFR I lose more on franking credits as well as remaining illegible for a health card. No wonder shorten accuses us of being 'rusted' on lnp supporters. Who else is their come election time as I'd rather not spoilt my vote. cheers
    McDaddy
    29th Apr 2019
    1:56pm
    Why would you need dental welfare if you have so much that you can't get a Health care Card?
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:34pm
    Lesco - if you are unable to get a health care card then you are earning some serious cash. No point claiming victim status when you are doing fine. Sounds like a political stunt to me. Who did you say you supported?
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    9:32pm
    Not eligible for a health card, then you earn over $50,000 as a single and over $80000 as a couple. So, $1000 per week at least or over $15000 per week as a couple.
    You have no idea what it is like to be a pensioner on less than half that.
    Consider the ones who rent especially.
    And, no, O&W they do not deserve to be poor, and they are not stealing your money either.
    Some honesty would be nice on here.
    Put your hands up if you have neither a pension nor a Senior health card?????

    29th Apr 2019
    1:00pm
    How could anyone trust a bloke with a record like this and his deputy associated with a convicted drug trafficker. Shorten needs to be bought to justice for what he has been accused of doing to the 16 year old girl with out his union police mate and the unions protecting him and yes the case is still open for further witnesses. And the charges of fraud and adultery we can see from his past we don't need witnesses for these accusations. We don't hear from shorten defending these accusations probably because he know there true. https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2016/05/15/bill-shortens-alleged-crimes-are-fraud-theft-adultery-and-rape-to-name-a-few-should-he-be-pm/
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    1:52pm
    Agree with you Fair Dinkum. How did that vile woman 's (Plibersek) husband get the very highly paid position of secretary of Justice. He went to prison for importing heroin and was a junkie on heroin for many years. In this state (Vic) you can't even be court usher even if you hav e a minor conviction. Bribery much?????
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:37pm
    And your LNP employer needs to be brought to justice on who is funding the party and what it gives back after elections. Please explain how Palmer is paying #40 million for an election campaign and giving preferences to the government? What's the payback AFTER the election?

    Above comments straight from liberal Party HQ trolls.

    29th Apr 2019
    1:00pm
    How could anyone trust a bloke with a record like this and his deputy associated with a convicted drug trafficker. Shorten needs to be bought to justice for what he has been accused of doing to the 16 year old girl with out his union police mate and the unions protecting him and yes the case is still open for further witnesses. And the charges of fraud and adultery we can see from his past we don't need witnesses for these accusations. We don't hear from shorten defending these accusations probably because he know there true. https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2016/05/15/bill-shortens-alleged-crimes-are-fraud-theft-adultery-and-rape-to-name-a-few-should-he-be-pm/
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    1:05pm
    Steady, Eddie.... let's stick to proven offences - and adultery isn't a crime...
    Lookfar
    29th Apr 2019
    2:01pm
    FD, that slander of Shorten is just hearsay, - pollies are always lying about each other so they can get elected/re-elected, - all I know is that due to the deterioration in my teeth, to 1/5th normal chewing area, I can't eat anymore my favourite food, - lamb chops grilled over a wood burning brazier. - also a very social feed, - everybody sitting around and talking.
    This Dental improvement initiative offers a possibility that I can again eat lamb chops.
    I am right into the megachanges required for the Renewable future, - most of which will increase productivity, the GDP and Employment, but on a day by day living on the Oz old age pension, it is often the small things that make a lot of difference.
    Being able to replace my graveyard/far side of the moon teeth failure of my ability to eat lamb chops may seem trivial to some, - to me it is Awesome, - Shorten has my vote.
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    2:26pm
    God help you, Lookfar. There's not much wrong with your teeth if $500 a year will go even a tiny bit towards fixing them. I suffer terribly with my teeth and it's so far cost me over $9000 this year, and there will be more treatment needed. But Short-on-integrity will make sure I can't afford the treatment I WORKED HARD AND SAVED FOR. All the holidays and restaurant dinners I sacrificed, the years of working two and three jobs, driving an 18-year-old car, making my own clothing and furniture... all the savings go the government under Shorten's vile and disgusting plan to thieve from and screw anyone who dared to work and save. And I won't be able to get to a dentist anyway when he puts the price of petrol through the roof with his idiotic electric car crap - that actually does MORE environmental damage than petrol cars. Increase productivity? Dream on fool! When ordinary people can't afford cars or petrol, how do they produce?

    The building industry has calculated Shorten's policies will result in a $250 billion loss. Killing franking credits to retirees will push hundreds of thousand more onto pensions and take mega millions of investment out of companies, reducing growth and jobs.

    Only socialist dreamers swallow the garbage Labor spews. They are good at one thing only - LIES. No, two things. LIES AND TAXING.

    No, the ability to eat lamb chops isn't trivial. It's awesome. But only a total idiot would think Shorten is going to help anyone who currently can't. $500 would barely cover one filling!
    KSS
    29th Apr 2019
    2:48pm
    Yet you approve of sitting round a wood-fed brazier eating char-grilled lamb chops eh Lookafar? And all the while no doubt discussing the "megachanges required for the renewable future" right?

    How about starting with not chopping down trees and eating meat? Neither are sustainable according to the Greens!
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:41pm
    Lookasfar - the government funded trolls are all over the website today. The price of an election coming.
    The dirty deal with Palmer is already done and tonight there was a fake leader's debate on 7 in conjunction with The West Australian. Pretty obvious it was a set up from the Stokes/Murdoch businesses.
    Just ignore the comments Lookasfar. Its the reason so few genuine posters are posting at present. Won't get any better as the big end of town runs its dirt.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:23pm
    Come on, KSS - that's a bit unfair on Lookie - one doesn't have to be a rabid 'greenie' to support renewables..... quite a bit of difference between issues there... moving to the coast and putting in a big solar system on the roof, for a start, and I'm used to water tanks etc - better water.

    Lamb chops on a char grill wood fire sounds good... I set the barbie alight the other day cooking fish... oil on the jets.. damn it - I told that woman not to throw out that fine boutique oil nozzle that allowed a thin stream and not an accidental flood... gonna put some oil in a sauce bottle with the small top and use that.... after I fix the barbie.... **fumes** .....
    David
    29th Apr 2019
    1:46pm
    I wholeheartedly agree with Older&Wiser. Shorten is so divisive, evasive when put under any scrutiny, mouths of slogans & one liners. Read the fine print on everything he says, there are caveats hidden unless you examine & see the blatant lies & half truths being wrapped up under the guises of fairness. The more I see over this campaign to grab power by any means is an affront to the electorate at large. Be warned!! The ALP’s targetting of the so called ‘big end of town’ smacks of class envy & EVERYONE in this country WILL pay as personal incentive is killed off. Their ‘policies’ are so unfair & clearly discriminate like no other any major political party in history. BTW. I am not a paid member of any political party or a troll, just someone who reads the fine print of what Shorten says.
    McDaddy
    29th Apr 2019
    1:55pm
    What does the fine print of Morrison say then , you know in the interest of balance. As you say David you are not a troll or a paid member, so what is your take on the LNP policies?
    Digby
    29th Apr 2019
    1:58pm
    well said David. Couldn't agree more. (And I have never been a paid up member of any political party).
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    2:41pm
    McDaddy, Morrison is also a threat to our society. No doubt about that. Which is why we need lots of responsible minor party members and independents to temper any extremes. But the bottom line is, we cannot afford Labor. The country simply doesn't have the luxury of paying $400 million in extra taxes. It will wipe out enterprise, halt growth, kill savings, and push millions more onto welfare.

    David obviously read the fine print. It's a pity more don't. If they did, they would know that Shorten tells very dangerous lies - the biggest being that he is taxing 'the top end of town'. Do you think someone with an income about equal to the old age pension and less assets than most pensioners is 'the top end of town'. More to the point, do you think someone with $2.4 million in super is NOT the 'top end of town'? Do you realise that the guy with $2.4 mil won't lose a cent, but the couple with less than $1 mil between them to last of their their lives (less than one would receive as a pensioner, in fact) and battling on an income less than the OAP will lose up to 1/3rd their income?

    Did you pick up on the fact that Shorten claims more than HALF his franking credit policy savings come from people with more than $2.4 mil in super, but actually NOT ONE CENT comes from people that rich? Did you notice that his figures were three years out of date and completely wrong?

    Did you note that he's spending $6.8 billion on child care and dental treatment for the aged and paying for it with a claimed saving of only $3.5 billion? Where will the rest come from? Actually, there's no $3.5 bil either because half the folk who lose their negative gearing concession will change their investment strategy. And how much tax will be lost when $250 billion is ripped out of the building industry?

    We are stuck with either LNP or Labor, and both are evil. It's a question of which is the worst and how we can temper the excesses of the party in power. Labor is clearly the most irresponsible and dishonest when both are examined closely, and the best way to temper extremes is to elect as many minor party and independents representatives as possible - taking great care that they really are independent and not stooges for one party or the other.

    The other scary fact about Labor is its alliance with the rat bag Greens, who threaten an end to morality and family values and idiotic unaffordable environmental policies that will destroy our lifestyle completely. It's sad, because they started out with good intentions, but they have been taken over by extremist fools.
    Sundays
    29th Apr 2019
    6:52pm
    You do realise that your ‘facts’ are just rhetoric don’t you. No substance and just because you make those statements doesn’t make them true. You have sadly become an uneducated troll repeating things they’ve heard or have been told to say
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:44pm
    Sundays - ALL of the above are comments straight from Liberal Party HQ. Have you noticed the usernames you've never seen before as well as the regular trolls? A sign of an election with the right's all out assault to put the worst government in our history back into power. Expect no real debate until the election is done.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:25pm
    They're all the same, David... watched a NSW education honcho on TV t'other night talking about North Bondi Primary, and he evaded every question... after all the discussion I still had no idea what the issues were supposed to be.....

    The ex (a renowned conservative) said they must all go to a special school to learn the art of evading questions by not answering but waffling...
    shirboy
    29th Apr 2019
    2:18pm
    Have recently had dental work which hit me in the pocket for $320 & also being "covered"by my health insurance.I must admit that I had stayed away from seeing my dentist for 2 years as I had other priorities that owning a house demands.
    Charlie
    29th Apr 2019
    2:55pm
    But I already get a lot of free dental care on the age pension.

    The only way they could top that is to fund root canal, post and cap.

    I have had a lot of composite reconstruction.
    Mondo
    29th Apr 2019
    2:55pm
    All of the above has further reinforced my determination to vote independant. Its clear from comments of all political persuasions that all parties need to be kept honest. Budget surplus? It seems clear both sides must be lying they keep bribing and bribing with borrowed money in our name. Also given the many abusive and insulting comments above, I wouldn't want to support any party that relied on such disdain.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:45pm
    A sound idea. Just be careful that you do not vote for a defacto Liberal Party candidate. Palmer has already shown his hand by giving preferences to the Liberal Party. What a surprise!
    Anonymous
    29th Apr 2019
    9:41pm
    Vote for someone with a brain, and the decency to show respect for people who worked for a lifetime and saved to support themselves in old age - not a lying, thieving scumbag who can't think past 'grinding everyone into poverty makes me powerful'.
    floss
    29th Apr 2019
    3:26pm
    What a great idea it will not be available for me but will help a lot of people that really need it.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    4:52pm
    https://www.superguide.com.au/retirement-planning/are-you-eligible-for-a-commonwealth-seniors-health-card
    floss
    29th Apr 2019
    3:32pm
    Watch your gold teeth if Palmer and Slimy Morrison get into power.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:47pm
    They're one in the same party. Palmer showed his slimy hand last time around. Giving preferences to the government was no surprise. He is what he is.
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    9:30pm
    Mick I put him last!
    LadyM
    29th Apr 2019
    3:33pm
    Yes but we’ll pay for it with death duties and other tax increases.
    Labor cannot possibly fund all the things they have promised! Shorten just opens his mouth and lies pour out, saying anything to con the people and conning the elderly is just the lowest of the low.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:48pm
    Unless Labor votes down tax cuts for the wealthy. Death Taxes are a scare campaign from a government in deep trouble. Nothing more.
    TREBOR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:27pm
    I think everyone carefully needs to delineate between death taxes per se and CGT on handover of property that has incurred tax benefit etc ......

    Then we can discuss on a level playing field....
    Arvo
    29th Apr 2019
    3:51pm
    If, LNP stay in power forget dental subsidy and forget an age pension increase in September 2019 on the latest RBA statement that inflation is at 0%.
    Frankly, the only good thing about LNP is their positive attitude on National Border Security however, they have been dismally disappointing on gun smuggling.into Australia.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:49pm
    Inflation is at 0%. Ha ha ha ha..... What planet do you live on? Have a look at how much it is costing to live and ask WHY you are running out of money.
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    12:59am
    O&A, the only envy I see comes from you. Your language contains key words like entitled and greedy which you use regularly.
    You would have a Senior Health Card if you were as poor as you say.
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    12:40pm
    O&A, you have said you are poor, poorer than pensioners! You get less than the pension!
    If you do not possess a Senior Health Card then you are well off. Good on you but you have misrepresented yourself.
    The continuous knocking of Labor about the franking credits is now not sincere but an electioneering angle. Yes, everyone is electioneering but they are not all misrepresenting themselves.
    It is fine to admit you are a pensioner or a self funded retiree, everyone should be proud no matter their circumstances. No one should be picking on another.
    People on here like Floss admit they will not be receiving the $1000 from Labor for dental but they do not mind others receiving it.
    Also, $500 is not nothing, it depends on your circumstances. However, further up you said pensioners were making a fortune and hope they are reporting to Centrelink!
    I am sorry you are so unhappy you feel a need to be so nasty.
    Go and have a holiday and don’t bother saying you cannot afford one.
    Arvo
    30th Apr 2019
    3:40pm
    OlderandWiser (NOT) -" I'm not 'poor', but I will be if a stinking crowd of Labor Communists are allowed to steal from everyone who saved and tried to set themselves up for a modestly comfortable retirement".

    -How else will Communists Politburo get stinking wealthy if they don't steal from the rich like you? ...They have to think of their retirement pension too.
    Arvo
    30th Apr 2019
    3:46pm
    Mick- ask the RBA what planet they live on. I seem to have landed ( without my consent ) on planet Earth that is full of detestable morons.
    Dancer
    29th Apr 2019
    4:15pm
    It's about time! Teeth are part of our body (surprise?) so why shouldn't the part of our body that we use to chew food be covered under Medicare (or similar) Or are we going to say our left foot isn't covered because ….! Because that's about the sum of it by excluding dental care - it's excluding a vital part of our body.
    Healthy teeth are necessary to chew good food; good food is necessary for good health. Elementary. Apart from that, decaying teeth with bacterial infections is a major risk to health in other ways, ie the bacteria can affect heart health. So it's just makes good sense for everyone to have healthy teeth and mouth, and thus help towards a healthy entire body.
    Discontented
    30th Apr 2019
    1:32pm
    Dancer No one is denying that
    Dancer
    4th May 2019
    3:43pm
    No one is denying what - that teeth are part of the body? True, but what so many on this discussion are denying is the basic human right for everyone - rich, poor, in-between, old, young - to be able to access the dental care they need. I see posts where people are attacked because they haven't saved enough money - that is all very well for people to say, however for some people it is an impossibility to save ie the aged who live on the pension and have no superannuation for many reasons, not the least because it didn't exist when they worked. Or people on disability support pensions. Or perhaps they were unable (not unwilling) to work for health reasons, or family reasons. Many older men and women live in poverty due to a variety of factors. Many in aged care facilities cannot get basic dental care because of cost or inability to physically get to a dentist. So they are given less-than-tempting pureed food because they can't chew good food. That is inhumane and a disgrace in a country like Australia. There is so much judgement of people who rely on welfare.
    Dancer
    4th May 2019
    3:43pm
    No one is denying what - that teeth are part of the body? True, but what so many on this discussion are denying is the basic human right for everyone - rich, poor, in-between, old, young - to be able to access the dental care they need. I see posts where people are attacked because they haven't saved enough money - that is all very well for people to say, however for some people it is an impossibility to save ie the aged who live on the pension and have no superannuation for many reasons, not the least because it didn't exist when they worked. Or people on disability support pensions. Or perhaps they were unable (not unwilling) to work for health reasons, or family reasons. Many older men and women live in poverty due to a variety of factors. Many in aged care facilities cannot get basic dental care because of cost or inability to physically get to a dentist. So they are given less-than-tempting pureed food because they can't chew good food. That is inhumane and a disgrace in a country like Australia. There is so much judgement of people who rely on welfare.
    Dancer
    29th Apr 2019
    4:15pm
    It's about time! Teeth are part of our body (surprise?) so why shouldn't the part of our body that we use to chew food be covered under Medicare (or similar) Or are we going to say our left foot isn't covered because ….! Because that's about the sum of it by excluding dental care - it's excluding a vital part of our body.
    Healthy teeth are necessary to chew good food; good food is necessary for good health. Elementary. Apart from that, decaying teeth with bacterial infections is a major risk to health in other ways, ie the bacteria can affect heart health. So it's just makes good sense for everyone to have healthy teeth and mouth, and thus help towards a healthy entire body.
    Bluefox
    29th Apr 2019
    4:16pm
    SuziJ - don't worry about the Commonwealth Seniors Card, it is nearly useless. You need a prescription for long term chronic health issues, and a doctors visit in my area is around $75 and the receptionist smiles and says "Oh but you get a $37.50 refund". Then it's off to the chemist to get your monthly supply of medicines, which you have been doing for many years. My last doctor did not even discuss the results of my BMD report which I know from the scanning technician have deteriorated. Why would the doctors let chemists issue medicines when they can make that sort of money for a 5 minute doctors visit!!!!!
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    4:51pm
    It is the Seniors Health Card not the Seniors Card. The latter can be easily obtained.you are younger with the latter as well. You need to be over 65 for the Health Card.
    https://www.superguide.com.au/retirement-planning/are-you-eligible-for-a-commonwealth-seniors-health-card
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    4:49pm
    https://www.superguide.com.au/retirement-planning/are-you-eligible-for-a-commonwealth-seniors-health-card
    I imagine most people on here get this?
    If not, then you can easily pay for most things and do not need to put down others or make fun of pensioners and use derogatory terms when making comments.
    I suspect some on here are misrepresenting themselves as well.
    I won’t name names. I was not even aware of this card til this topic came up and I realised some people are not who they seem and what they say is not always truthful.
    Dancer
    29th Apr 2019
    4:57pm
    Well said, Paddington.
    Sundays
    29th Apr 2019
    6:36pm
    The fact that they feel a need to use derogatory terms just shows how desperate they have become.
    libsareliars
    29th Apr 2019
    5:25pm
    Sounds great to me, good on you Bill. We should've had this years ago - for everyone on low incomes.
    Nan Norma
    29th Apr 2019
    7:03pm
    Queensland seniors already get free dental care. And $500 is nothing. Two visits.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    9:20pm
    I have a sister in Qld and she is back at the local dentist. Still has cover for dental too.
    It seems some places are luckier than others. Rubbish where we are!
    tactful
    29th Apr 2019
    7:31pm
    What a load of rot. Labor Shorten is just buying votes. He has not got funding for this pledge and like all other Labor pledges it will die a quiet death.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    7:57pm
    And his timing was superb lol
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    8:56pm
    You seem to be ok with the government behaviour tactful?
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    7:36pm
    A lot of people voted today. A report from one place said Greens were popular. They were walking up to the Greens candidate and telling her so.
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    9:00pm
    I have a problem with MPs like Sarah Hanson Young who believes Australia should bring anyone who claims they are a refugee to Australia. Of course they're all refugees?
    And then there is Hanson Young's court battle when she got back as good as she dished out.
    I'd vote for the Greens if they had the common sense to bless themselves with. Sadly they need some life experience.
    Good luck to whoever people vote for and I hope they will not vote for the corrupt low life government we currently have. If so enjoy what is dished out: poverty and class war.

    Congratulations on voting. I may attend to this tomorrow as I've had enough of the campaign.
    Paddington
    29th Apr 2019
    9:18pm
    No I have not voted yet as we are getting postal votes. Our daughter did today. It was a Green candidate in another State who noticed this that we know personally. Some States are better with the Greens than others. One place love the Greens.
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    12:48am
    O&W, that is fine with me. Labor/Greens is how I intend to vote this time. I look at policies each time. Greens have a lot of heart and Labor stands for the worker. Government is formed by either Labor or LNP and I do not like much about the LNP. There are some good people in their party but they are not united and there are quite a few who are too far right and whose values I do not respect.
    Anonymous
    30th Apr 2019
    8:30am
    Poor you, Paddington. I'd hate to be that deluded and gullible. Labor stands for the RICH RICH RICH AND RICH. Their strategy is to make sure everyone else is equally poor and dependant and therefore can be controlled. Why do you think they attack anyone who succeeds in climbing out of hardship and becoming modestly comfortable? They can't stand anyone achieving any level of financial independence, because they cease to be bought by with miserable and pathetic handouts.

    As for the Greens... immorality, destruction of family values (well, Labor wants to abolish gender too!), and mega-billions spent to deprive us all of the ability to get about, have goods transported, keep comfortable, etc.... while THEY live in brick and tile houses in the middle of koala reserves, drive modern cars, and run air conditioners. Of course add to that list that they wipe out businesses and destroy jobs.

    I don't much like a lot of LNP pollies either, Paddington, and I certainly don't like those who are far right, but the lefties are a dangerous mob of idiots, and we CANNOT afford another $400 billion in taxes and the destruction of the value of personal responsibility. But of course the bludgers, spendthrifts and failures in life always want to steal someone else's money. Can't stand the thought that others might be more comfortable because they worked harder and lived more responsibly.
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    9:19pm
    Now we have voted Mick! Feels good to get it out of the way.
    Pity it all could not have been concluded sooner as people are doing early voting and postal voting.
    18 more days seems too long!
    diamond
    29th Apr 2019
    8:06pm
    The shock jocks and their talkback LNP stooges have been spouting all day that pensioners are already eligible for $1500 of dental work. Anyone know the real situation?
    MICK
    29th Apr 2019
    9:02pm
    The shock jocks are LNP stooges working to get their man back into office? They earn good money and will benefit with tax cuts too. Let the media corruption roll on.
    MD
    29th Apr 2019
    8:48pm
    So are we to expect that the old choppers can expect some small degree of attention ? Oh goody, goody gumdrops, it's enough to put one's teeth on edge...before we plonk em in the glass of cleaning solution overnight. Keep the goggles on though - you never know who might unexpectedly 'pop in' (for a yummy gummy) whilst you've got em out.
    David
    29th Apr 2019
    9:32pm
    Let’s NOT forget that peers behind the ALP had secretly met with Palmer before the LNP negotiating preference deals & on the very same day Comrade Shorten was blasting Palmer over QLD Nickel. Then you get Plibersek asserting she knew nothing about deals. I do not support Palmer, but either the ALP doesn’t know what the left hand (pun intended) is doing or more blatant lies. What Shorten will say & do to con & pull the wool over the electorate will be devastating at best. Wake up, this country can not afford Shorten. The so-called help for seniors with dental expenses (tell me where you can get treatment for $1000 then wait another two years) & child care is blatant porkbarrelling. Once again, read the fine print if you dare.
    SFR
    29th Apr 2019
    9:57pm
    Preferences are not distributed by any party they are what YOU decide & no one else.
    They are telling you how they would like you to vote. You control how you vote unless you want to follow a party line.
    Anonymous
    30th Apr 2019
    8:22am
    Irrelevant, SFR. The point David was making is that Labor are either hopelessly disorganised, or thoroughly dishonest and hypocritical opportunists. Actually, they are all of those things and much worse.

    And yes, David, their 'gifts' are blatant porkbarrelling. Vote buying with the money they are stealing from hard-working Australians so that the value of endeavour is totally wiped out and we become a race of paupers. And then the handouts stop and we are all slaves to Shorten's rich pals (from whom we observe he is taking NOTHING AT ALL - not that anyone can. Only a fool thinks it's possible to keep increasing taxes on a rich man.)
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    12:45pm
    O&W how about they pay something, many pay zero tax!
    Anonymous
    1st May 2019
    4:09am
    Paddington, many SHOULD pay tax, so why are you supporting a proposal to let them KEEP paying no tax and slug those who are contributing $40K a year to the Treasury while struggling to match the OAP in income? Clearly you don't care that the rich will NEVER pay tax, as long as those you envy because you THINK they have a few dollars more than you are hurt.

    How do you justify letting people with $4 mil pay nothing, using franking credits to wipe out their tax bill, and giving cash rebates to couples with $700,000 and drawing a part pension, but taking 30% of the income of a couple with $850,000 AND depriving the latter couple for the rest of their lives?


    How about stop the mealy-mouthed dishonest generalisations and stand up for FAIRNESS and TRUTH?
    SFR
    1st May 2019
    9:36am
    off course it's relevant O&W. people keep saying the ALP, LNP etc are doing deals fore preferences which is done every election state & federal.
    But you have control over who you give your preferences to not anyone else unless you vote by the card that's handed to you & follow a particular party line.
    Paddington stated above that they should pay tax so what are you raving on about now, OOOOOH See you've brought your FC's into the post, jeeeeez, of course, twist it around so you can have another whinge about poor me poor me
    ardnher
    30th Apr 2019
    9:20am
    as Mick said above "get the government we deserve"..remember those words when taxpayers start wearing the burden of Labor policies of which Shorten cannot tell us the cost. Throw a few freebies out and people scrabble to pick them up without thinking of what the long term effect will be.

    Economically we are now on course; what happens when Shorten gets his hands on the purse strings heaven help us and he will have the Greens to contend with as well. We all know what Swan said about getting in bed with the Greens last time...he said it was a disaster or words to that effec. Really..how short memories are in the Labor party.

    S
    ardnher
    30th Apr 2019
    9:20am
    as Mick said above "get the government we deserve"..remember those words when taxpayers start wearing the burden of Labor policies of which Shorten cannot tell us the cost. Throw a few freebies out and people scrabble to pick them up without thinking of what the long term effect will be.

    Economically we are now on course; what happens when Shorten gets his hands on the purse strings heaven help us and he will have the Greens to contend with as well. We all know what Swan said about getting in bed with the Greens last time...he said it was a disaster or words to that effec. Really..how short memories are in the Labor party.

    S
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    12:44pm
    People are doing it tough. Some compassion is good. The lower income people spend it all which stimulates the economy. Greens are okay. What is not okay is families suffering and children going without and single pensioners being homeless. Not my kind of world!
    Trickle up for a change!
    Caky
    30th Apr 2019
    3:28pm
    I want to know why both these so called Politicians cannot offer this and that why they have not given these things before offering them now and where is all this money coming from for these promises. Who would believe either one!
    Arvo
    30th Apr 2019
    4:07pm
    Caky- The government's revenue always comes from taxes! High spending=High taxes. So, if you are employed , it comes out of your hard earned blood and sweat income. But, there's more...When you purchase goods for yourself you pay GST(tax) out of your disposable net income.
    Tax is the only money growing tree in the world!
    Even in a gambling casino they charge you tax on your winning (house percentage). that's why the "house" usually wins. Perhaps, that is why the government is divided into "house" of representative and "house" of senate. You see the house usually " wins' (pun).

    "why they have not given these things before"? = Desperate times=Desperate measures to win votes.
    Sundays
    30th Apr 2019
    4:17pm
    I notice that most of Older and Wiser’s hate posts have been removed. Could we hope that she has seen the light, or has the Moderator finally stepped in?
    Paddington
    30th Apr 2019
    9:35pm
    Yes and my responses to her. That is okay, it would not make sense if mine stood alone as they were responses.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    8:08pm
    Older and Wiser's hate posts have been removed. Please go through the ones that remain and give examples of this hate speech. And no, I don't know Older & Wiser, merely acknowledge the logic behind the posts from that person.

    Next go through Mick's comments on this thread alone and find references to the "corrupt low life government we currently have," "the worst government in history trying its best to bring in its dictatorship and government for the wealthy ideology;" "the worst government in our history"; "If you had ethics you could not vote for malicious, lying, crooked bunch." These comments are taken from just one thread, identical comments appear ad nauseam when any subject is under discussion.

    Mick consistently refers to anyone who does not share his views as a troll for the LNP and personal abuse and ridicule, normally a feature of most of his posts are allowed to stand. For my part, I'm beginning to develop the same form of paranoia as Mick, and suspect the umpire on this site is, like Mick, a Labor troll.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    8:08pm
    Older and Wiser's hate posts have been removed. Please go through the ones that remain and give examples of this hate speech. And no, I don't know Older & Wiser, merely acknowledge the logic behind the posts from that person.

    Next go through Mick's comments on this thread alone and find references to the "corrupt low life government we currently have," "the worst government in history trying its best to bring in its dictatorship and government for the wealthy ideology;" "the worst government in our history"; "If you had ethics you could not vote for malicious, lying, crooked bunch." These comments are taken from just one thread, identical comments appear ad nauseam when any subject is under discussion.

    Mick consistently refers to anyone who does not share his views as a troll for the LNP and personal abuse and ridicule, normally a feature of most of his posts are allowed to stand. For my part, I'm beginning to develop the same form of paranoia as Mick, and suspect the umpire on this site is, like Mick, a Labor troll.
    Paddington
    1st May 2019
    8:36pm
    Mick’s posts are not directed at individuals like O&W’s are.
    There seems to be a few trolls on here for sure. When key government terms are used like ‘leaners’ it is not hard to assume they are plants. Of course with an election at hand we are all electioneering a bit at least.
    Far right should be called out by everyone because they are racist. We now know that hate speech is dangerous and can lead to loss of life.
    You can usually address Mick if he has been at all offensive but O&W keeps repeating key phrases that aim to put people down. She is not alone, however.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    10:35pm
    Paddington, you say that Mick’s posts are not directed at individuals like O&W’s are, yet I challenge you to produce any quote from O&W that is more extreme than those posted by Mick.

    His quotes are not directed at individuals? Here is just some of the venom I have received from Mick who does not know anything about me and continues to label me as a troll when I have stated on numerous occasions that I am a swinging voter and to this I will add that I have been an employee all of my life so have had absolutely zero opportunity to avoid paying my fair share of tax, nor have I had opportunity to use fraudulent tax loopholes or offshore tax shelters:

    “The reason being the side of politics you support is a lie on steroids. As I keep saying it is the voice and legislative arm of the top end of town. Tax cuts for rich citizens anyone?????”

    .”A lot more thought needs to go into your posts and the way you perceive the world. It's not what you make it out to be and it will change. Give it another 500 years.”

    “I HAVE NO JEALOUSY of the rich but rather contempt. Contempt for avoiding paying their fair share of taxes though fraudulent deductions and loopholes put in place for the top end. The worst of these is offshore tax shelters. I assume you use this Maxchugg.”

    “For the record I'm not exactly poor but unlike you and your lot I'm not a crook bleeding our country and demanding the poor pay for everything the rich use for free”

    “My views are not extreme. They are factual and I'll debate any of them at any time. The trouble with your position is that it's conflicted so you fall in line. Whilst a leftist I have no side of politics other than a fair carve up of the national wealth rather than a rich man's handout. You do.”

    As for your comments about the far right, they are no more dangerous to our society than the far left. In fact, at present the far right is, in my opinion, less of a problem than the far left. I reject any form of extremism which the word “far” indicates exists and is a serious problem with both sides.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    10:35pm
    Paddington, you say that Mick’s posts are not directed at individuals like O&W’s are, yet I challenge you to produce any quote from O&W that is more extreme than those posted by Mick.

    His quotes are not directed at individuals? Here is just some of the venom I have received from Mick who does not know anything about me and continues to label me as a troll when I have stated on numerous occasions that I am a swinging voter and to this I will add that I have been an employee all of my life so have had absolutely zero opportunity to avoid paying my fair share of tax, nor have I had opportunity to use fraudulent tax loopholes or offshore tax shelters:

    “The reason being the side of politics you support is a lie on steroids. As I keep saying it is the voice and legislative arm of the top end of town. Tax cuts for rich citizens anyone?????”

    .”A lot more thought needs to go into your posts and the way you perceive the world. It's not what you make it out to be and it will change. Give it another 500 years.”

    “I HAVE NO JEALOUSY of the rich but rather contempt. Contempt for avoiding paying their fair share of taxes though fraudulent deductions and loopholes put in place for the top end. The worst of these is offshore tax shelters. I assume you use this Maxchugg.”

    “For the record I'm not exactly poor but unlike you and your lot I'm not a crook bleeding our country and demanding the poor pay for everything the rich use for free”

    “My views are not extreme. They are factual and I'll debate any of them at any time. The trouble with your position is that it's conflicted so you fall in line. Whilst a leftist I have no side of politics other than a fair carve up of the national wealth rather than a rich man's handout. You do.”

    As for your comments about the far right, they are no more dangerous to our society than the far left. In fact, at present the far right is, in my opinion, less of a problem than the far left. I reject any form of extremism which the word “far” indicates exists and is a serious problem with both sides.
    SFR
    1st May 2019
    10:56pm
    Maxchugg, O&W started personally name calling and bulling me, I didn't retaliate by name calling etc for a long time but her name calling & bullying persisted on a very personal basis so now she gets back what she dishes out. But now I don't bother name calling or bullying.
    So to say that O&W isn't as bad as Mick is total rubbish.
    People on this forum have been listening to the same old broken record from O&W for to long now & consistently changing the topic to whinge & scream about bloody FC's & poor me poor me.
    About time she grew up & took control of her own situation instead of name calling & bullying in a vile aggressive nature.
    You can call out Mick anytime but don't one person out & with the same post protect one of the most vile and bulling posters on tnis forum
    And I'll only post this once not like you or O&W
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    11:59pm
    SFR, I can only comment on what I have seen. I have never seen posts from O&W which come close to what you describe, maybe because they have been taken down.

    As for Mick, he's the one in my view who is like a broken record. His hatred for the present government and the wealthy is present in practically every post, anyone who dares to differ from his point of view is instantly a troll for the Libs. As I indicated, Mick, who knows nothing about me has me down as a Liberal troll, despite the number of times I have stated, truthfully, that I am a swinging voter. Worse, I am lumped in with tax evaders and users of offshore tax havens.

    I have been critical of the censor for taking down one of my posts where I made no personal attacks, but did present what I considered to be a valid point of view supported by evidence, yet highly defamatory personal attacks I have received from Mick are allowed to stand.
    maxchugg
    1st May 2019
    11:59pm
    SFR, I can only comment on what I have seen. I have never seen posts from O&W which come close to what you describe, maybe because they have been taken down.

    As for Mick, he's the one in my view who is like a broken record. His hatred for the present government and the wealthy is present in practically every post, anyone who dares to differ from his point of view is instantly a troll for the Libs. As I indicated, Mick, who knows nothing about me has me down as a Liberal troll, despite the number of times I have stated, truthfully, that I am a swinging voter. Worse, I am lumped in with tax evaders and users of offshore tax havens.

    I have been critical of the censor for taking down one of my posts where I made no personal attacks, but did present what I considered to be a valid point of view supported by evidence, yet highly defamatory personal attacks I have received from Mick are allowed to stand.
    Aussie
    2nd May 2019
    8:25pm
    $500 x year ???? what can we done with $500 x year .... if you are lucky maybe 1 1/2 filling of some cavities .... Well I guess $500 is better then nothing Ok I like the idea of $500 I do not have to go to Thailand for a filling that will be good .....

    Ok Ok ...he got my vote he he he he I Sold My Soul to the Devil for $500 dental x year better than the God that offer nothing for my dental Ummmmmm
    LJ
    3rd May 2019
    8:01am
    $500 a year for the few and 100% of renters will be paying far more, an estimated 10-15% increase in rents as a result of Bill Shorten raising billions of dollars from new taxes on residential property.

    To take an example, a cheap rent of 320pw for a unit (where available!) will be increased by a minimum of $32 pw, which is $1664 per annum. With that money still in your purse/wallet it is you, NOT Shorten, who gets to choose what you spend it on.
    SFR
    3rd May 2019
    10:38am
    Scaremonger, no proof whatsoever thar rents will increase. LNP have sent you another cheque in mail
    Adrianus
    3rd May 2019
    10:58am
    LJ, that's a very good point that I think many have failed to digest. Likewise A worker should be a lot happier with a 10% reduction in income tax than he, she or they would with a 10%increase in wages, because they would have more dollars to spend without pushing up prices.
    Ignorance is our enemy LJ, but it is the Socialist's friend.
    Farside
    3rd May 2019
    11:48am
    Adrianus, be careful what you wish for ... a 10% drop in personal tax equates to about a 4% reduction in revenue, which is approximately $17B less for government spending.
    LJ
    3rd May 2019
    11:47am
    Shorten's new tax grab is in the billions and it is impossible that rents will not rise sharply so that the industry remains viable. Few would disagree that the rental industry must remain viable to provide necessary shelter for the booming populatrion from mass immigration.
    That will be added to by Bill Shorten's encouragement of family reunion visas where 100,000 older relatives are waiting to come to Australia. He is increasing the refugee intake as well.
    Farside
    3rd May 2019
    12:14pm
    LJ, please elaborate why it is impossible that rents will not rise sharply.
    LJ
    3rd May 2019
    6:05pm
    Please read the first para of my post above.
    Farside
    3rd May 2019
    11:45pm
    Time will tell. Landlords risk increased vacancies if rents sharply increased given current levels of rent stress.
    LJ
    4th May 2019
    12:13am
    That would make it the perfect storm wouldn't it? Because investment money and developers are already in flight from residential property and especially new unit developments. But mass immigration continues unabated, with the other pressures leading to increased demand (see my post above, last para).

    Shorten is planning for large institutional investors, globals, for example, insurance companies, to take over rental housing. To date, they have never been inclined to do that because of the high risks (including the demonstrated regulatory risks!) and difficult management problems do not deliver the required high return on the money invested in the here and now.

    If Shorten's dreams come to fruition and large institutional investors control rental housing that will turn the direction of regulation in favour of those big money and big influence institutions with predictable consequences for tenants, especially OAPs and self funded retirees (who similarly must budget).
    Farside
    4th May 2019
    9:18am
    you are right LJ in that it is a storm with a number of competing drivers/influences. Depressed markets, tight lending, rental stress, mortgage stress, high demand for low cost housing, wary investors. Two good things with falling property values are increased affordability for first home buyers and higher returns on capital for rental investors.

    Institutional investors will only look at residential properties if they satisfy their risk and return requirements. I suspect many are already fully invested in property and will not be looking to invest further in the sector while values still have downside and banks have tightened on lending criteria.

    The academic research I have seen on this suggests there will be some movement from rental to owner-occupiers on existing housing. I suspect government will end up arguing stimulus and driving new housing construction and this is easily afforded.
    LJ
    4th May 2019
    8:02pm
    Farside,

    I am pleased we can have this discussion. Because housing is in uncharted territory already.

    The federal government's (both sides!) hard right hoof on population accelerator of mass immigration must be lifted. The housing problems have been building for many years, as have other problems from unrelenting high immigration - as identified by State Premiers (who were ignored).

    ATM, young couples are not being able to buy into real estate as residences or for investment because the banks as instructed by APRA have raised the bar.
    Justsane
    4th May 2019
    3:30pm
    This is obviously a good announcement from Labor, but I find all this stuff a little bitty. Why not just put dental on Medicare, and done with it. Teeth are a part of the body after all. I think all this faffing around breeds confusion in everyone. With Medicare, pensioners, children & health care card holders often get treatment for free whereas others might have to pay a co-payment, the rest paid for by Medicare. Thus, Medicare benefits EVERYONE, and if dental was put on Medicare, this would benefit EVERYONE too. Obviously, those who get the treatment for free would get the most benefit, but EVERYONE would benefit.

    Why can't the Government introduce dental to Medicare in one fell swoop? Sure, it will cost money, but it will reap better health and less stress for its people. Put a price on that, why don't you? This issue should not be treated as a political football - just do it.
    Dancer
    4th May 2019
    3:58pm
    Yes, Justsane, teeth are part of the body which I pointed out in my post on 29th April.

    And you are right, a dental provision within Medicare will indeed save the government ( of any persuasion) lots of money by saving on the health care needed to treat the infections and etc. that result from poor dental care, not the least being heart disease.

    Disease in any part of the body has a flow-on effect, so it certainly does make good common and economic sense to treat the whole body (and the whole person).
    Dancer
    4th May 2019
    3:58pm
    Yes, Justsane, teeth are part of the body which I pointed out in my post on 29th April.

    And you are right, a dental provision within Medicare will indeed save the government ( of any persuasion) lots of money by saving on the health care needed to treat the infections and etc. that result from poor dental care, not the least being heart disease.

    Disease in any part of the body has a flow-on effect, so it certainly does make good common and economic sense to treat the whole body (and the whole person).
    Sassy
    4th May 2019
    11:46pm
    What a joke. Go to any senior club and you will see that 90% of the people there have dentures so what benefit would Shortens, not so generous dental allowance, help them.The younger generation need the subsidy for preventative care so they don't end up with false teeth.
    Dancer
    5th May 2019
    12:37pm
    Dentures need to be checked from time to time also - gums shrink and the dentures need to be refitted … and for some people with a partial denture, that needs adjusting also from time to time, maybe even a transition to full dentures.
    Dancer
    5th May 2019
    12:38pm
    Dentures need to be checked from time to time also - gums shrink and the dentures need to be refitted … and for some people with a partial denture, that needs adjusting also from time to time, maybe even a transition to full dentures.
    Dancer
    5th May 2019
    12:40pm
    Oh and a good dentist will check gums for disease also... and gums and teeth are integral parts of the body!
    Dancer
    5th May 2019
    12:40pm
    Oh and a good dentist will check gums for disease also... and gums and teeth are integral parts of the body!
    eggles01
    6th May 2019
    12:19am
    what a load of bull dust,it was the labor rudd the dud that removed the FREE dental care for the elderly now we have "the bigger bills in the future bill shorten crawling back with hope of conning those elderly persons that the labor party treated so cruely in the past,do you remember this statement."why should we give the pensioners an increase in their pension because they do not vote for us"also that great big "there will be no carbon tax with any government I lead"that is entirely the labors vision if you vote them in to office,so all you oldies out there just like me,if you want to drop further below the poverty line vote for them,it will not be long after the election befor you realize the mistake you made and then just think,you only have another 3 years before you may have a chance of to change back to the government we have and really can we take such a chance that we will be under the greens and labor party coalition with what we already know about their lies and deception of their antics they have practices in the past
    Dancer
    6th May 2019
    9:57am
    Nobody - or at least I - am not talking about which party to vote for - I am advocating that either party - labor, Liberal or any other in the future - includes full dental care under Medicare for eligible people... that is the issue at stake here. So whichever party wins government in this upcoming election should include a dental plan - simple, basic good sense for the overall health of people, thus saving money on potential medical bills in the future.
    Dancer
    6th May 2019
    9:57am
    Nobody - or at least I - am not talking about which party to vote for - I am advocating that either party - labor, Liberal or any other in the future - includes full dental care under Medicare for eligible people... that is the issue at stake here. So whichever party wins government in this upcoming election should include a dental plan - simple, basic good sense for the overall health of people, thus saving money on potential medical bills in the future.
    eggles01
    6th May 2019
    12:39am
    I would advise every one to google "how much would dental extractions cost in Australia"then work out what dental work you require,
    this will not be fully bulk billing,you will be given a medicare bill and medicare will cover so much of the bill and you will have to pay the rest of the bill yourself,,be very careful if you are considering changing your vote to labor, you have already seen that shorten will not tell you anything of the full cost.


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