Asylum seekers are now ‘illegal’

Australian immigration staff have received instructions to refer to asylum seekers as ‘illegal’

Asylum seekers are now ‘illegal’

Australian immigration staff and those working in detention centres have received instructions to refer to asylum seekers as ‘illegal’. Immigration Minister Scott Morrison earlier this week sent a written directive that all asylum seekers arriving in Australia by boat be referred to as ‘illegal maritime arrivals’. Asylum seekers held in detention centres in Australia are to be called ‘detainees’ instead of clients, and those being held on Nauru or Manus Island are to be called ‘transferees’ instead of clients.

In 2007 the Labor Government stopped using the term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’, instead calling them ‘irregular maritime arrivals’, in recognition of the fact that it is not illegal under Australian or international law to seek asylum. The new directive from Immigration Minister Morrison will see a return to the language of the Howard government.

Many asylum seeker groups are unhappy with the change in language. Chief Executive of the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Kon Karapanagiotidis, has said that the language change will shape the public debate over asylum seekers. “He’s [the minister] deliberately trying to dehumanise asylum seekers by making them seem less human… They’re ‘detainees’, not people, and that suggests criminality. And calling people ‘transferees’ suggests they have no rights; they’re a package, a parcel, in transit.”

Opposition leader Bill Shorten has said that Labor does not agree with the new terminology. “I do believe that we’re an immigration nation. Other than Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, we’re all boat people or plane people. We are the nation of the second chance and we have been since European settlement.”

Mr Morrison has defended his decision to direct public servants to refer to asylum seekers as ‘illegal’. “I’m not going to make apologies for not using politically correct language to describe something that I am trying to stop,” he said. “I’m not going to engage in some sort of clever language to try and mask anything here… I’m going to call a spade a spade.”

When questioned about his use of the word ‘illegal’ to describe asylum seekers, Mr Morrison explained, “People who have entered Australia illegally by boat have entered illegally by boat. I’ve never said that it was illegal to claim asylum. That’s not what the term refers to. It refers to the mode of entry.”

Find out more about Mr Morrison’s new directive at the Sydney Morning Herald

 

Opinion: Not engaging in ‘clever language’ is stupid

There are so many problems with Immigration Minister Scott Morrison’s new directive I hardly know where to start. I believe his language decisions are wrong on a moral, human level, and his justification is so technically flawed as to render it invalid.

I will start with the technical problems and work my way backwards. Mr Morrison has claimed that the term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’, which is to be used to describe individual asylum seekers, does not describe those people as illegal. It simply describes their mode of entry as illegal. On a purely grammatical level, Mr Morrison’s justification is wrong. The word ‘illegal’ in this phrase describes the ‘arrival’. By describing asylum seekers as ‘arrivals’ of any kind, the word ‘arrival’ stops meaning ‘a mode of transport’ and is instead simply another word for ‘asylum seeker’. If an ‘arrival’ is the same as an ‘asylum seeker’ then, grammatically, calling them ‘illegal maritime asylum seekers’ is just as correct as calling them ‘illegal maritime arrivals’. Mr Morrison is calling asylum seekers illegal, even if he doesn’t mean to be. If he wanted to refer to their mode of transport as illegal, he would need to call them ‘fellow human beings who have illegally arrived by boat’.

Technicalities aside, I think it is just plain wrong to dehumanise those who seek our help. To make the treacherous journey to Australia by boat, a person would need to be truly desperate. I think that locking these people away in detention centres is bad enough. Mr Morrisons insistence that we refer to them as ‘illegal maritime arrivals’, ‘detainees’ and ‘transferees’ simply adds insult to injury. Manners don’t cost anything, and acknowledging with our words, if not yet our actions, that asylum seekers are human beings should be a given.

As important as I think it is to use the correct language in any situation, at the end of the day this is an argument about semantics. All the hype over the word ‘illegal’ creates one more distraction from the bigger issue, which is that Australia’s asylum seeker policy is putting us at risk of breaching our signed agreement with the UN to provide assistance to genuine refugees.

Finally, I would like to put a question to Mr Morrison and to each of you. If it is not illegal to seek asylum, but it is illegal to arrive in Australia by boat, how else are they supposed to get here? Are they supposed to swim?

What do you think? Is the new term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’ more correct? Or is it dehumanising and wrong? 





    COMMENTS

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    22nd Oct 2013
    10:35am
    When illegal immigrants arrive on our shores, of course they should be called illegal. What a load of politically correct bulls..t from the labor party. They are just grasping at straws because Tony Abbott is stopping the boats. Something they could not do in six years, after starting the boats arriving. I am sick of all the crap coming from Shorten and his union mates, trying to make it more difficult for Tony to stop the boats. They are traitors to this country. Abbott has a mandate to stop the boats and to get rid of labor's carbon tax.
    Jen
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:43am
    Incorrect. It is not illegal to claim asylum.

    This is just another vomitous attempt at blackening asylum seekers. You're sick of the crap? So am I.
    minnie
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:50am
    John Howard started this and Abbott and crew have continued. One it is NOT illegal to seek asylum be that by boat, plane or whatever.

    Two most ILLEGAL immigrants are ones that fly in and overstay their visa.

    We invaded two of the countries that asylum seekers are arriving from and yet we turn our heads on the responsibility of the invasion. And by the way invading Iraq was ILLEGAL it wasn't sanctioned by the UN and it was based on lies about weapons of mass destruction.
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:07pm
    Jen and minnie
    May be an idea of reading the subject matter before jumping to your own conclusions
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:31pm
    "Illegal Maritime is incorrect" . They are unauthorised maritime arrivals.

    The UNHCR emphasises that a person who has a well-founded fear of persecution should be viewed as a refugee and not be labelled an ‘illegal'. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:48pm
    paying criminals to ferry them without going through any process is correctly called illegal.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:04pm
    Incorrect, smuggling people or human trafficking is a crime.It is not a crime to be a passenger on board, whether you paid or not. You are a victim of a crime.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:06pm
    Incorrect. Aiding and abetting a crime is illegal.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:18pm
    Your using incorrect legal terminology in this context. The passengers on board the boat do not directly pay the smugglers. It is assumed that refugees hand over cash to someone who captains the boat into Australian waters. This not what factually happens. There are a whole host of people involved in the smuggling or trafficking network. Coordinator or organiser,Recruiters,Transporters or guides,Spotters, drivers, messengers and enforcers,Service providers and other suppliers, corrupt public officials who accept bribes.

    Anyone of these people may be charged with aiding and abetting, not the passengers.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:30pm
    And I presume destroyng their papers to avoid scrutiny is also perfectly legal and commendable ? They are illegal entrants omn many counts. True asylum seekers apply in the first safe country in which they arrive and they wouldn't travel through unsafe countries.
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:47pm
    can anyone prove the asylum seekers destroyed their papers?? I am not saying they didn't, but suspicion of destroying their papers is not enough. The precedent has been set, for what ever reasons the asylum seekers do not have legal papers (maybe they were too busy trying to stay alive and couldn't wait two or three weeks for their papers!)

    Illegal water users or any other name they are still "asylum seekers '..... LEGAL asylum seekers that arrive here by boat.

    IS IT A CRIME TO WANT TO STAY ALIVE??
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:55pm
    They have their papers when they fly into Indonesia as otherwise the Indonesian Government would not let them in.

    If they are asylum seekers they should seek asylum in Indonesia.
    Pass the Ductape
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:57pm
    To Jen....No it isn't illegal to claim asylum but their motives must seem a little bit suss when 'asylum seekers' only claim asylum if its in a country offering generous social benefits.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:10pm
    There is a lot of misconception about asylum seekers coming via Indonesia. The first one is 'why don't they seek asylum in Indonesia'. They can't because there is no legal framework to assist them. The UNHCR site offers very good information:

    "The Philippines is the only State in South-East Asia that is Party to the 1954 Convention related to the Status of Stateless Persons, and no country in the subregion has yet acceded to the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness... Without solid legal frameworks to protect them, refugees and stateless people in the region are treated as illegal migrants, subject to detention and deportation."

    http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e488116.html

    What is sickening is that Indonesia isn't party to the conventions, Australia is, and yet it appears Australia treats asylum seekers who arrive by boat EXACTLY the same as those who have not signed the conventions, we detain and deport them. Our response is third world.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:16pm
    "They have their papers when they fly into Indonesia as otherwise the Indonesian Government would not let them in" . They do not have their papers when they fly into Indonesia. Indonesian law regarding refugees etc is arbitrarily used. This means that it is inconsistent. Indonesia is not a signatory to the Refugees Convention, and what that means is that they have no interest whatsoever in affording any rights or legal status to asylum seekers or refugees. So many are locked up without being charged, in gaols in appalling conditions. Others might be living in the community but they know that the police can arrest them at any time. They can't work, can't get medical care, have children.
    Aussiefrog
    22nd Oct 2013
    8:00pm
    Well said Dogs Body, you're a 100% right.
    And also those illegal immigrant don't assimilate with the Aussie way of life, but this is another issue!
    Multiculturalism has failed miserably!
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    9:25pm
    ILLEGAL..... instead of Asylum Seekers. Starting to sound more and more like George Orwell's 1984 where they simply change words to CON the Proletariates or PROLS which keeps them under control! After some of the comments above... yeah... PROLS.

    Unbelievable....... Asylum Seekers would NOT fill up the MCG, there are so little of them. Those that are accepted into Australia are NO DOUBT refugees and if they make it in, 99.9% of those are that grateful and become MODEL AUSTRALIAN CITIZENS.

    Not a word from the PROLS about the REAL illegal immigrants who come in through the 457 visa system which brings in workers that take Australian jobs and bring down our wages. Those that do not go home when their work visas expire or their holiday comes to an end.... any problems fellas (and Abby)? What about the totally LEGAL IMMIGRANTS that come maybe from Saudi Arabia, who have oodles of money but also EXTREME religious views..... still okay?

    You haven't thought about it? Nothing is said on the Corporate (foreign) mainstream media, who support 457 visas and wealthy immigrants because it makes money for them and their cohorts?

    So that means YOU don't THINK either and simply DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD and squeak and squeal about the Asylum Seekers..... a FINE DISTRACTION for PROLS don't you think!
    aquatrek
    22nd Oct 2013
    9:31pm
    if it looks like a one-eyed political idiot, txts like one, behaves like one, goes on and on like one, invents its own scenarios, poses as a know it all, cant accept the truth, would open the Oz borders to anyone and everyone, doesnt even understand simple english words like ILLEGAL, then have a guess as to who it is ... hint - starts with M
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:01pm
    Wow, my one and only aquatrek..... you simply can't resist me can you.

    Don't like being maligned as a Proletariate or PROL, old chum.... then don't act like one.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:53pm
    I know who that is aquatrek----- Our know it all script writer Mozzie-Bait. Or was it Masturbate.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:24pm
    How woooowd and coming from someone who calls himself 'Dogs Body'.

    You know what dogs like to lick all day..... anything..... but in particular, orifices and other dangly bits... chuckle.
    lasaboy
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:40am
    I am so sick of parties and their supporters having a go when someone is trying to get it right, of course they are illegal, I have seen this crap from white fella's trying to tell me I should be offended by someone calling me a black fella, get a grip for God's sake, this politically correct garbage will destroy our country unless we stop it
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:48pm
    Spot on lasaboy. I am fed up of all this politically correct crap. Australians are really not into that, except a few with hidden agendas.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    9:29pm
    Oh! dear... more PROLS.

    It has NOTHING to do with politically correct and has a LOT to do with TAGGING certain people as UNDESIRABLE and INCITING RACISM.

    Okay, it gives the PROLS something to squeal about ..... keeping them occupied BUT it certainly has NOTHING to do with political correctness, quite the opposite my two little friends.
    Kristo
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:42am
    It is completely wrong.
    People are human beings full stop.
    We Australians are a disgrace when it comes to upholding a treaty to which we have been a signatory to since it began.
    We cant be trusted.
    There is much much more involved than a mindless three word mantra.
    It has sucked a lot of people in.
    Gra
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:37pm
    You want Eleanor to provide proof of her claim? The proof can be seen at any Centrelink office Monday to Friday. All you have to do is open your eyes.
    jackeroo
    22nd Oct 2013
    9:42pm
    And you can't Kristo, so how do I know you are an Aussie?
    eleanor
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:53am
    These people are a drain on our society. They come to Australia and head straight to CENTRELINK - they have arrived and retired at the expense of the taxpayer. They are not fleeing their country for POLITICAL reasons they are coming for FINANCIAL reasons and for that reason in my opinion makes then ILLEGALS not asylum seekers. Labor caused the majority of this mess and remember they were giving them bigger payments than our aged pension. Asylum seekers give me a break what a load of nonsense
    Kristo
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:57am
    Eleanor, with respect I don't think you are correct in saying that.
    You may have 'heard' it somewhere but where are the facts that back that claim?
    Luchar
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:30pm
    Kristo,
    You criticize Eleanor by asking her to provide facts to back up her claim, yet you want us to accept that Eleanor is wrong simply because you say so.

    Surely, the way for you to demonstrate that Eleanor is wrong is to provide your own evidence to the contrary. Till then, I'll go along with Eleanor.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:54pm
    They don't get Centrelink benefits when they arrive. When they are given bridign visas the red cross and other non profits help them. They are entitled to receive benefits when they become Austalian Citizens and are settled. Most are working and paying taxes to support all Australians.They boost our economy, and not a drain on it. However, detaining people in detention centers for years and years drains the Australian Economy.
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:01pm
    seeing we are getting to the root of the vocabulary, Kristo did say "I don't thing think you are etc." and then simply implies eleanor's "facts" may have been hearsay. Anyone knows we can get facts and stats from the Gov.

    I side with Kristo. I have a young asylum seeker Bosnian couple living near me and I can only speak highly of them. They left their parents and other family members and came to a strange country and (to my way of thinking) they are contributing more to the local community and society than a lot of dinky-di, true-blue-Assies do. AND their stoyies about their trip here are cruel and frightening. I admire them greatly. Australia is lucky to have them.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:15pm
    We can all cite examples. I know an Afghan man who has been given refugee status and he hates all Australians, loves the Taliban and is bent on Jihad. He regards our women as cattle to be used and discarded. He may not be typical but how many do you need? On the other hand I know good people who have come here.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:35pm
    There are many examples of Australian men who hate all Australians and also regard women as cattle to be used and discarded. So he's in good company.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:13pm
    Oh dear!
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:31pm
    It's alarming isn't it, however the research is very strong, most men convicted of adult sexual assault or domestic violence have these attitudes and beliefs. The research is very strong.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:55pm
    No wonder our pensioners are on the bread line with all these bloody illegal boat people paying $10,000 to $15,000 for boat trips to OZ, the bludging of the ever suffering tax payers. Charity begins at home, and the pensioners that have paid taxes for years should not be disadvantaged by these illegals. Buggar them. Australians are contributing plenty in helping genuine refugees. Plus grants to Indonesia.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:03pm
    Pensioners benefit when Asylum seekers who are settled in Australia, they work and pay taxes and pay for your pension and healthcare costs. The real cost is housing them indefinitely in detention centers. Process them quickly and do away with detention altogether. We are the only Western Country who detains them.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:11pm
    What jobs, unemployment is going up, it is hard enough for genuine Australians to find work. Take out the part time workers, and we are around 10% unemployed. To suggest these illegals would be a benefit is wrong. We bring in enough real refugees as it is. The government never gives out true unemployment figures.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    9:48pm
    Unbelievable....... Asylum Seekers would NOT fill up the MCG, there are so little of them. Those that are accepted into Australia are NO DOUBT refugees and if they make it in, 99.9% of those are that grateful and become MODEL AUSTRALIAN CITIZENS.

    This thing about coming from countries that treat their women badly.... what have you to say about people legally immigrating from, say, Saudi Arabia.... they are wealthy so don't use Centrelink and generally they are religious EXTREMISTS who treat their women with TOTAL DISTAIN, violence, etc, etc. They are the ones who refuse to accept Australia's culture and laws..... they okay then.

    Eleanor.... I don't hear you complaining that Abbott giving social welfare money from those that NEED it, to pay the equivalent to $75000pa wage for those on $150,000pa and above, to have children. The women claiming this AMAZING waste of taxpayers money may well be from Saudia Arabia, etc..... you will be paying taxes so that they can have more babies? Ever thought of that!

    THE SCAM of this equivalent to $75000pa wage, is as follows:

    I am wealthy, I want to come to Australia, I fly over and register an Australian $2 company, I then start a business - coffee shop, etc and get the Company to SPONSOR me and my whole family into Australia. Two years I am an Australian citizen, along with my whole family but during that time, I employ my wife in the coffee shop and pay her $150,000 to run the show.... after ten months she has her first baby. Our government PAYS her the equivalent of $75000pa wage for the designated period to have her child. ALL Australians that have their own company or business can also do this easily by paying their wives a huge wage when they do NOTHING or very little in the company, so that they can receive the equivalent of $75000pa wage when they are ready to have a baby.

    It is a lot more than what the Asylum Seekers get...... How does that sit with you Eleanor.... okay????

    Just another way of shifting TAXPAYERS MONEY (PUBLIC MONEY) into the POCKETS of the WEALTHY (PRIVATE POCKETS).
    aquatrek
    22nd Oct 2013
    9:51pm
    rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant by guess who/m ............................ ?
    [there is no prize]

    they are ILLEGAL
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:05pm
    aquatrek.... can you UNDERSTAND what was said.... given your response, it does seem a tad over your head. Would it be better if you were told by the corporate (foreign) owned mainstream media, in PROL SPEAK?
    maxchugg
    24th Oct 2013
    3:30pm
    Mussitate has elsewhere condemned all religions other than Islam for inflicting their views on everyone else, but has not provided any evidence of the Christian religions in a supposedly Christian country behaving in the manner he described. Yet he appears to support Islam which does demand the right to inflict Islamic law and beliefs wherever it has sufficient power to enforce those demands.
    Mussitate is also devious with his statement that asylum seekers would not fill the Melbourne Cricket Ground. Between 1989 and now, 60,006 people claiming to be asylum seekers have entered this country, add to that number the number of people who have been accepted as refugees in the same period of time and finding 130,000 people to fill the MCG would be no problem.
    The claim that 99.9% of asylum seekers are model citizens cannot be reconciled with the fact that most states now have a special Middle East crime unit.
    pete@nakedhydroponics
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:56am
    There is no law against any person seeking asylum.
    The term illegal immigrant applies to a person who has already taken up residence on these shores without official permission.
    To describe these people as illegal is to deny the essential pillar of a humane legal system: "innocent until proven guilty".
    Who would trust any of our politicians to assign guilt to anyone without due process of trial?
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:42pm
    Pete, you contradict your own argument.
    "The term illegal immigrant applies to a person who has taken up residence on these shore without official permission" end quote.

    Who gave these arrivals by boats entering Australian waters permission to take up residency?
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:07pm
    Bofor, you mention 'taking up residency' ... do you mean the people who come here on a tourist visa and never leave or do you mean the asylum seekers who are fleeing for their life that arrive here end up in detention centres before they are granted LEGAL residency?
    peter000
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:14am
    They arrived utilising illegal channels, so what's the issue? They are illegal non-residents... end of story, there's no point in trying to gild the lily here.
    Jack42
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:14am
    What a load of BS to claim asylum I thought you do that at the next port of call, NOT by pass countries and go to one that will give you everything. LOOK after our own first
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:11pm
    if one is persecuted in their own country and other close countries too .. wouldn't you go to a country that offers asylum?? (I wonder if Australia really is as generous and as compassionate as I remember her to be)
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:59pm
    Too many bleeding hearts on this site. Get real you idiots.
    Foxy
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:03pm
    you the idiot - lol lol
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:57pm
    OOO NOOOO Not blond FOXY again. PLEASE !!!!!
    Young Simmo
    23rd Oct 2013
    1:23pm
    Foxy please put your teeth in before you step out of the front door, or up to your computer.
    Foxy
    23rd Oct 2013
    2:31pm
    ...go do something constructive you Old Simmo - oh and I did notice your pathetic comments about people in the bush fire regions (earlier post).....but then I should have expected such ignorance from Trailer Park Trash like yourself....still jealous of people who own homes - sad really ! Poor old bigot.......
    Anonymous
    27th Oct 2013
    11:18am
    Old Poxy Foxy, I don't know if she can afford those false teeth Young Simmo. Thinks she is a millionaire because she owns a dump of a house. Probably mortgaged to the eye brows. A mans haircut and bum like a working bullock type. Waddles along looking for food all the time. What a greedy old bitter hag.
    Young Simmo
    27th Oct 2013
    11:45am
    Yeh Dogs Body, apparently the ABC did a show the other day about Poxy Foxy, but were told the show had to go to air after 10 pm when all the kids were in bed. Something to do with kids having night mares during school week.
    Imagine the poor neighbour going out to pick up his newspaper in the morning and seeing that.
    Foxy
    27th Oct 2013
    5:29pm
    lol lol - once again we have the two old nasty foul-mouthed " old men" (above) looking after each other as usual and once again spewing their "cyber bullying - you need to know you two nasty old men that a lot of other people read your comments on here - and - you are not liked at all!!! Nasty hateful old men!!!! Sad actually ...real sad!
    Young Simmo
    27th Oct 2013
    5:56pm
    Wow the pot calling the kettle black. Poxy Foxy you are the original name caller and sh*t slinger. If the replies to your disgusting unlady like mouthing off upset you, don't start it in the first place. People like me, Surfer and Dogs Body only give what we get. Ask anybody that knows me, and they will tell you that I am a wonderful, kind and generous gentleman. Also very modest.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:16am
    Generally speaking ‘illegal immigrants’ are people who enter a country without meeting the legal requirements for entry (without a valid visa, for example). However, under Article 14 of the 1948 Universal declaration of human rights, everyone has the right to seek asylum and the 1951 Refugee Convention prohibits states from imposing PENALTIES on those entering ‘illegally’ who come directly from a territory where their life or freedom is threatened.

    The UNHCR emphasises that a person who has a well-founded fear of persecution should be viewed as a refugee and not be labelled an ‘illegal immigrant’ as the very nature of persecution means that their only means of escape may be via illegal entry and/or the use of false documentation.[8] The Refugee Council of Australia similarly notes the practical difficulties encountered by asylum seekers in obtaining the requisite documentation prior to departure:

    Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation. Australian and international law make these allowances because it is not always safe or practicable for asylum seekers to obtain travel documents or travel through authorised channels. Refugees are, by definition, persons fleeing persecution and in most cases are being persecuted by their own government. It is often too dangerous for refugees to apply for a passport or exit visa or approach an Australian Embassy for a visa, as such actions could put their lives, and the lives of their families, at risk. Refugees may also be forced to flee with little notice due to rapidly deteriorating situations and do not have time to apply for travel documents or arrange travel through authorised channels. Permitting asylum seekers to entry a country without travel documents is similar to allowing ambulance drivers to exceed the speed limit in an emergency – the action would be ordinarily be considered illegal, but the circumstances warrant an exception.

    Asylum seekers irrespective of their mode of arrival, like others that arrive in Australia without a valid visa, are classified by Australian law to be ‘unlawful non-citizens’. However, the term ‘unlawful’ does not mean that asylum seekers have committed a criminal offence. There is no offence under Australian law that criminalises the act of arriving in Australia or the seeking of asylum without a valid visa.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:50pm
    Nice long story Black Cat but you should have stopped at the last line in paragraph one.

    "---------those entering"illegally" who come direct from a territory where their life or freedom is threatened"

    Most of these illegal boat arrivals have "country hopped" and NOT came DIRECTLY from blah blah blah.Fact before fiction.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:24pm
    The information above I have given you comes straight from the Australian Parliament facts and research on immigration. Not fiction, but fact.
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:15pm
    love it BlackCatWalking!!! Ab-so-bloody-lutely love it :)
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:47pm
    Here is the factual reference:
    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AsylumFacts
    Kevie from Buderim
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:41am
    It is not illegal to seek asylum.
    It is illegal to come by boat with the assumption of receiving asylum as of right.
    There are established protocols for applying for asylum as there is for any other privilege.
    If you apply for a tenancy and are granted that tenancy then you are a legal occupier.
    If you occupy a house with no agreement then you are an illegal squatter.
    I can see little difference...
    Kristo
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:08pm
    To stop the human misery part of it, drownings and the glib treatment by Morrison we would be better to follow the Clive Palmer policy.
    By flying them in and carrying out due process of eligibility for Asylum the people smugglers are out of business, the drowning of human beings and women and kids is stopped to a major extent at least and those that are not eligible are returned to whence they came.
    Also takes the risk off of our own sailors and saves many $billions of taxpayers money which is being handed to outfits like Serco for incarceration.
    Those that qualify can easily become Australians along the vein of the boat people influx fro Vietnam and such and all the other groups that came and are now part of our culture.
    Or is it a white Australia that you seek?
    Kevie from Buderim
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:18pm
    Why would you suggest skin colour or ethnic origin has any relevance to a persons right to asylum?
    I don't see the connection.
    Kristo
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:36pm
    Kevie, it shouldn't but I was referring to some Australians who seem to want a white Australia. Geddit?
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:56pm
    Wow Kristo the "white" people you speak of who live in Villawood and Fairfield who are not game to venture out at night would warmly congratulate you on your kind remarks regards to the biggest criminal activity since the Mafia in the good old USof A.
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:27pm
    Kevie, I can remember the end of the Vietnam war and the refugees arriving by plane. That was when Australia was a proud and compassionate country. We benefited from their culture (and food!!)and as for you reference to the Mafia and criminal activities, I really do not think any aliens have hold over us Aussies!! Remember, we were exported here for stealing a handkerchief or a loaf of bread!! We have our own first class criminals.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:16pm
    Good old selective memory. We got some great people from Vietnam and they have enriched us. We also got all the corrupt and criminal elements and they have made a great living in crime and in selling our youth the drugs that are destroying them.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:11pm
    Aloysius
    Australia's crime rate is the lowest in the world... you should go to the USA and walk into the wrong suburb... don't understand your connection to crime and corruption and Vietnamese people? Simply doesn't make sense.

    Crime in Australia, particularly drugs is certainly not limited to other cultural groups.... the recent headlines about bikies proves that point.
    tisme
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:04pm
    unless u have a visa etc if u step foot on Australian soil or come in her waters with intention of doing so then u are ilegal
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:04pm
    Try arriving into Russia or the USof A in a clapped out boat. Phew, the mind boggles.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:55pm
    Not really. The States has a policy on boat arrivals, most of whom appear to come from Cuba
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Refugee_Adjustment_Act

    It is also sometimes referred to as the wet foot/dry foot policy
    http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/wetfoot-dryfoot.html

    Why you would mention Russia? People are still leaving Russia to seek asylum elsewhere.
    http://euobserver.com/justice/121072
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:05pm
    Yes the new term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’ more correct.
    And as far as calling them "clients" that is absolutely absurd
    About time that correct terminology was applied.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:24pm
    Unauthorised boat arrivals is the correct terminology. Figures show that between 70 and 97 per cent of asylum seekers arriving by boat at different times, have been found to be refugees and granted protection either in Australia or in another country. Therefore calling them clients is indeed the correct terminology.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:22pm
    Soft courts using wacky interpretations of law that was designed for another time. Benefit of the doubt given to those who detroyed their papers is evidence of this.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:23pm
    Remember the people smuggler granted asylum and plying his trade from Canberra. What a joke.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:25pm
    He was a single case and not representative of the vast majority of refugees.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:07pm
    I would call them illegal patients with all the hand-outs they get. Mental ones for thinking we are a soft touch. Well we were before the election.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:12pm
    Then why don't you APPLY the CORRECT terminology Abby..... Asylum Seekers or Refugees.
    tisme
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:06pm
    if they have the money to pay the owners of the boats then they aren't that badly off
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:27pm
    Figures show that payments made to people smugglers range from $4000 - $5000 AUD.

    In reality, many families and communities pool their resources in an attempt to send their relatives to safety. People smuggling is a crime that the international community needs to combat. However, this does not negate the legitimacy of asylum seekers’ claims, nor their need to seek refuge.
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:58pm
    They also have to pay for the flight to Indonesia.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:28pm
    Some people don’t have any identification, because they’ve never had it, they’ve had it taken away by people smugglers or persecutors, they’ve lost it, or they’ve destroyed it. In Afghanistan most people don’t have passports. The most common form of identification is the national ID or tazkira, which is held by about 70% of Afghans. Many have their ID destroyed at sea and have done so under the instruction of their boat’s captain. They felt they had no choice.

    Generally, Afghan refugees will travel a route through Pakistan (by land), to Malaysia or Singapore (by plane), then to Indonesia (by small boat or plane). None of these transit countries are signatories to the Refugees Convention. They offer no protection to people.

    People cobble together enough money by exhausting their life savings, selling their property, even their mother’s jewellery – they are desperate. While most Afghans are poor, people seem to forget professional people can be persecuted too. Money cannot protect people who are targeted by the Taliban. In fact having money, land or a successful business might encourage the Taliban to target a Hazara person.

    Health professionals are being rounded up in Iran and placed in prison by the government. Only to be tortured or killed. Why wouldn't you flee.
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:34pm
    Abby, yes, they pay for a flight to Indonesia .... and their plight in Indonesia is probably as bad as their homeland. As BCW said, families and communities pool their resources to save a few. Is there any law that says asylum seekers have to be destitute??
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:16pm
    WHAT.... if you are middle class in other countries and the west illegally invades and destroys your life (and family) and ensures that it is too dangerous to stay.... then the money they have saved should not be used to come to the west AND that ONLY dirt POOR people are allowed refugee status or asylum? That just doesn't make sense, people.

    You have been watching TOO much COMMERCIAL TV/MEDIA... they spin it out and Prols lap it up.
    AmandaR
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:09am
    If history teaches us anything, it is that the wealthy and educated are targeted first. Vietnam, Cambodia, Rwanda are examples is recent history. They have few options but to flee to safety.
    iamnotold
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:21pm
    If they knew this country was full of ignorant bigots they would probably go elsewhere.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:04pm
    Why don`t you tell the this fact Imanotold?
    Might just save Australian from foreign domination.
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:44pm
    I studied this a couple of years ago and my research found a majority of esylum seekers to England found their plight worse in England than their war torn home land. The racial taunts and slurs besides being degrading, were demoralising and made the asylum seekers resort to suicide. We here in Australia have witnessed the adults and children in detention centres sewing their lips together. As an Australian I am fortified to think that we (Australians) are seen to live in a worse and more dangerous country that that the asylum seekers have left.
    jackeroo
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:29pm
    Dear iamnotold, Please inform future illegal immigrants of our bigoted country so they can find elsewhere to go. Then they can save money by not going home (The country they fled from) for a holiday.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    9:56pm
    PROLS..... iamnotold .... merely PROLS...they are told what to think and they lap it up without thinking!
    Mitch
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:31pm
    These people did not follow the legal process of immigration, so therefore they are illegal immigrants and should be considered so until they have been processed and declared legal or deported as inappropriate to have here.

    One day the do gooders will realise that they have the money to pay for their tickets on these boats, so they are not completely destitute as you would have us believe. If they were they would do like the many millions of others and wait until processed through the proper channels. They are illegal immigrants and all countries put illegal immigrants into detention until they can be deported in most countries. Come on wake up before you destroy australia with your bleeding hearts. there is a very real threat out there. It is illegal to falsify your standing to seek asylum. most of these boat people are doing just that, trying to find somewhere to hide from the poor and often very illegal activities in their homelands.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:25pm
    Well, that is what you are told by our COMMERCIAL TV/MEDIA, I agree. They spin it out and it is soaked right up.... the racist element is ALWAYS a good ticket to keep people fighting each other. It is just a form of control.

    Destroy Australia.... really. We ARE multi-cultural... WE are ALL IMMIGRANTS to this country... what are you suggesting that we only let in POMS or white westerners or something.

    The WHOLE point of refugee camps, etc, is that they are kept there until their details and status has been confirmed! Australia takes YEARS to do this whereas the UK and France (for example) take no more than 4-6weeks. If someone IS shown, after this THOROUGH examination of their affairs, to be and given refugee status, then that is what they are! Not criminals.... unless of course racist prols that live here, physically or mentally abuse them and push them over the edge, maybe?
    GregB
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:35pm
    If people enter a country illegally what is wrong or inaccurate to call them illegal? Just the same what is wrong with calling people in detention "detainees" That is what they are. Refugees refers to people leaving their country, they can then chose to enter another country legally or illegally.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:47pm
    Because they are not entering illegally.
    They are fleeing persecution and are therefore entitled to enter Australian waters. They are unauthorised boat arrivals seeking asylum. Detainee implies they have done something wrong. Given that figures prove that more than 90% are genuine refugees who come by boat and are fleeing persecution and are therefore settled here in Australia, then these 'boat people' haven't done anything illegal or wrong.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:25pm
    Fleeing persecution in Indonesia? Pull the other leg.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:44pm
    More than 90% come to Australia from Afghanistan, or Iran. You can't sail from there. Hazara people from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran make up the majority of the estimated 5000 refugees and asylum seekers currently in Indonesia.

    Registration with UNHCR doesn't always mean that asylum seekers have a clear set of legal rights and a realistic chance of resettlement. Very few asylum seekers arrive in Indonesia with the plan to travel onwards with a people smuggler.They go there to engage in the UNHCR process, to be registered and processed as refugees, and to be recommended for resettlement by UNHCR.

    In Indonesian context, unfortunately asylum seekers and refugees are not legally protected.The law is so ill-defined there is enormous scope for interpretation, meaning that some asylum seekers are free to live in the community while others get locked up in either immigration detention centres or jails, awaiting deportation back to the country of persecution.
    aquatrek
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:33pm
    so BCW: the illegal people smugglers should be allowed to prosper and eventually open up a shipping company and the ships [large ones] can berth in Darwin and offload their human cargo at will ?? get a real grip on life. Stop the human trafficking = stop the boats.
    AmandaR
    23rd Oct 2013
    1:00am
    Well that's a stretch aquatrek. Just the sort of garbage that taints the debate and feeds the trolls. Stopping human trafficking does not equal stop the boats or vice versa. Certainly stopping the boats will produce a positive result for the Australian government, bt it will do little to reduce trafficking and in fact, could contribute to more human rights abuse of vulnerable people. Human trafficking is a much larger issue than a few thousand asylum seekers coming to Australia by boat. This might help you to distinguish...
    http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/what-is-human-trafficking.html
    BlackCatWalking
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:14am
    Aquatrek,

    your argument is incredibly simplistic. There is no simple business model of people smuggling as trotted out by the various major political parties.

    Human smugglers are not in the business of selling permanent residence; in fact they do not even sell the idea of a specific country at all. Human smugglers work with a highly specific clientele: those who have consistently been denied access to any kind of official recognition from a nation-state and who are therefore unable to travel under the protection provided by visas or passports.

    Threatening refugee seekers with the inability to settle in Australia does not constitute a strong or effective deterrence mechanism. At the time they embark in their journey refugees’ main focus is not on the logistics of resettlement, but on being able to leave behind the extreme conditions they face.

    To the smugglers, the Australian government’s decision simply means they have to come up with new routes for a segment of clients that is unlikely to disappear.

    With the relocation of refugees to PNG, Australia may be actually contributing to the creation of a new smuggling centre in the region – one that is not subjected to the limitations faced by Indonesia (increased surveillance, limited visas) and from where even more daring transits to other countries (including Australia itself) can be planned and carried out.

    To think that altering one factor in the smuggling equation will do anything to deter the resolve of refugee seekers to reach a destination, and stop smuggling is naïve at best.
    nettiser
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:48pm
    How does one get to fly into Australia or any other country without a passport or Visa?

    If these boat illegals seek asylum, why have they not applied to the Indonesian Govt? Most Australians holiday in Bali or visit Jakarta and other islands that are advertised as Paradise. Surely if things are so bad, almost any country is better than where you were.

    Ohh sorry i forgot, Indonesia is passing them on, at a profit,and they also don't give them welfare, free medical access, and a wad of money to buy cars and get housing. Only Australia offers free holidays with all expenses paid with the option of staying full time and then complaining that the soccer field isn't big enough, that swimming pools should exclude men while women bathe behind screened fences, that they should be able to institute their barbaric Sharia Law, one of the things they fled from in the first place.
    Anytime they don't like our rules they burn it down or wreck it, costing us millions. This is not the behavior of what a real refugee would exhibit. One being persecuted would be grateful for any morsel of food, shelter being offered by a country they have sought refugee status within. I say it again from the last time this matter was aired, most of these people are NOT refugees, they appear too well fed and buffed up. We should immediately deport them back to where they came from and tell them to join their army and fight for their rights, rather than lavish in luxury whist our sons and daughters are there fighting and dying in their shit hole country. If you want to see real deserving refugees , pop into some of the tent camps on the Syrian border where people are really starving and living in atrocious conditions, they have no Nikes, iphones, samsung tablets and designer clothes like the bastards coming here on false pretenses.Most having $20,000.00 to pay some crooked Indonesian ( probably a member of the Bang Bang Udiono political house or Police force) to be put in a leaky boat and sent in our direction.

    As for labor Bill, I am convinced he is Shorton brain cells like the rest of his cabinet, who helped create a trade in people smuggling. Screw Labor i am switching sides and hope the Libs get it right asnd drop entirely this political correct crap
    Sen.Cit.90
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:27pm
    nettiser, You have covered the farce well. I agree with you.
    jackeroo
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:30pm
    Well said.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:30pm
    Those that receive REFUGEE STATUS in Australia ARE REFUGEES. The Australian Govt (no matter which political party is in power) conducts THOROUGH investigations on every person seeking Asylum as a refugee.

    Australia can take years to do this... the UK & France take from 4-6 weeks only.

    Refugee status has nothing to do with how much money you have.... it is ludicrous to say that you have to be 'dirt poor' to be a refugee.

    It all this rubbish that the Corporate (foreign) owned Media is spinning out. Prol fodder only.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:42pm
    My information suggests that the Government lacks the resources to investigate or defend claims in court. Junior solicitors represent the Government while Asylum seekers enjoy taxpayer funded private legal representation and advice. Hopefully, this unfair support will soon be funded by the asylum seekers who don't appear to have financial difficulties.
    missmarple
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:57pm
    nettiser I am with you, that is exactly what I say, TRUE refugee's are so thankful, not like the others who complain things are not as in their own country where they have come from,, well let them go back if that's what they want, don't take up the resources for true refugees and also trouble makers who burn buildings or instigate other troubles should be sent back straight away never to be allowed to return
    Irishwolfhound
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:48pm
    Is this really all you have to do all day?, wonder about if the correct word was used. these people arrive without passports etc of course they are "ILLEGAL".Have you tried visiting the poor sods in the detention camps who sit there for months/ years patiently waiting for a country to accept them while your "legal louts " jump the queue !!!!!!
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    12:59pm
    There is a view that asylum seekers, particularly those who arrive in Australia by boat, are ‘jumping the queue’ and taking the place of a more deserving refugee awaiting resettlement in a refugee camp. Evidence from the UN Refugee Council show there is no orderly queue and people sitting in refugee camps will be there forever.They have no chance of being resettled in another country. You have to be registered with UNHCR and only 11 per cent of asylum claims were registered with the UNHCR in 2011. less than 1 per cent of the world’s refugees may be resettled in any given year. 7.1 million refugees are sitting in refugee camps with no hope of going anywhere.
    battiejl
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:04pm
    About bloody time - send them all back immediately to where they came from AND STOP GIVING THEM MONEY or any assistance at all - they have more than most of our aged and those living on the streets - good on you Abbott - about time someone had the balls to stand up to these illegals
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:57pm
    does it all come down to money?? I am surprised at some of the posts here.
    It is wrong to assume all people living on the streets don't want to live on the streets the same as it is wrong to say all asylum seekers are 'illegal'. balliejl, I think your last sentence sets PM Abbott up as a bully not a hero! Ooops, sorry, you only have one sentence!!

    "...good on you Abbott - about time someone had the balls to stand up to these illegals ..."
    is what I meant. Stand up to people who have nothing?? Not even self respect sometimes, and you want someone to bully them more??

    gime a break
    Aloysius
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:24am
    The Australian Government was elected to look after the Australian people. Full Stop.
    john
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:04pm
    Please, these people are illegal. They pay to bypass the UN screening centres, and destroy their documentation. Why?
    Australia supports the UN refugee screening centres who determine who are true refugees. The illegals are stopping these "legal migrants" from entering our country.
    Sorry, but agree with the Govt here,
    carmencita
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:04pm
    I think there is confusion here. Technically, it is correct to label those getting through Australian territorial waters without approval to enter as illegal. We do not know they are asylum seekers because they have not been assessed as such. The usual procedure for people seeking asylum is to avail of UN facilities and apply for asylum or refugee status and stay in camps designated as such until they are sent to receiving countries with proper documentation. This procedure has been availed of by those coming from Africa, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc... Why should those recent arrivals be any different? The term asylum seekers has been used loosely and it's time it is corrected.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:44pm
    Carmencita - in my studies on this issue - one thing that reared its ugly head is the the UN and aid/assistance agencies etc - often 'contract' out their applications and processing to locals - who - in most of those countries - are compromised in one or more ways.

    I've given advice to Iranians seeking asylum - don't use locals - go direct to the Embassy with your papers and declare asylum status immediately.
    Not Amused
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:18pm
    Of course people who pay smugglers to transport destination seekers into our waters are entering illegally. Australia is not their country of "first asylum". They mostly travel through and bypass (even reject) more than two culturally, religiously and socially compatible countries in order to pay their passage to perhaps a third or fourth country (Australia). Under UN rules they are expected to apply for asylum in the first safe country they reach. They are Centrelink Seekers, nothing more and nothing less. Indonesia is a safe country. If they are telling us they are trying to escape an unsafe environment, that is not only a lie, it is insulting to Indonesia. Why don't they go to India or Pakistan? Because they want 22 million Australian taxpayers to provide them with benefits, homes and services that many of our elderly people have to beg for.
    biddi
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:37pm
    Absolutely. Can't understand why some people just don't get it.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:28pm
    Aye - but would YOU not seek to run to the ends of the Earth if the hounds of hell were on your tail? Or to a country girt by sea and which provides a reasonable level of security.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:54pm
    I'd try and change my own country into the one I would like to live in.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:05pm
    Aloysius,

    you'd be arrested and locked up or killed just for talking on a website like this one. Or talking to someone else.
    Not Amused
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:11pm
    Dear Grappler, I refer you to these pictures. These are just a few shots of what has been going on for SIX YEARS. I do not want pensioners being monetarily disadvantaged on account of the taxation pie being distributed to scammers who are NOT running away from the hounds of hell. Look, and look very closely.

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/08/paul-murray-on-2ue-right-now-131332.html#tpe-action-posted-6a0177444b0c2e970d0192acb30eeb970d
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:20pm
    Black Cat - all the more reason to stand up for the community rather than running away. Others must feel the same way as evidenced by the thousands who are running away. We are not the last refuge for the timid.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:20pm
    Black Cat - all the more reason to stand up for the community rather than running away. Others must feel the same way as evidenced by the thousands who are running away. We are not the last refuge for the timid.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:38pm
    Aloysius,

    being dead doesn't help anyone. However, fleeing to a save country where you can stand up and tell your story and educate others does. Schoolgirl Malala Yousafzai, who survived an assassination attempt by the Taliban, was helped to seek Aslylum in the UK. That country provided her with medical treatment and protected her and it's the only reason she is able to spread the word about what really happened to her. If she was deported back the Taliban will kill her.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:42pm
    We're not fighting in Pakistan but we are fighting and losing soldiers in Afghanistan while their young men run away.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:20pm
    Why or what they are running from? Are they really that different to Australia's own conscientious objectors? The ramifications for dissention in Afghanistan is much harsher than a mere stint in jail and should we turn our backs because we do not deem them to be worthy because they may be young and/or healthy or Lord forbid, have the means and courage to escape?

    "Most will have experienced trauma and torture. In addition to post-traumatic stress disorders resulting from war, dislocation, oppression, and torture, many immigrants face other stressful events such as economic hardship, introduction to a new culture, and racism."
    http://cultural.profiles.spirasi.ie/countries/afghanistan.shtml

    http://www.persecution.org/2013/07/29/fleeing-afghan-christians-find-freedom-and-community-in-india/

    There is nothing wrong with debating this issue, because Lord knows it should be debated, what is wrong is the debate is consistently influenced by politics rather than humanitarian considerations.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:36pm
    My conversations with refugees have given me the clear impression that they have come for a better life rather than to escape persecution. Their young men have openly told me that they come first with the role of applying for family reunions for those who contributed to their fare.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:58pm
    They could be telling you what they think you want to hear. that they are proud to be here, that they will be model citizens. Did you see the Life of Pi? Focus on the positive, embellish the truth, because the reality is to horrendous to think about.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:04pm
    I don't think that I am the gullible one in this discussion.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:48pm
    Is that your response? Your default position is to mock and belittle? I am disappointed in you Aloysius. I thought better of you than that.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:48pm
    Pot calling the kettle black, methinks. You implied that I was being hoodwinked, with no justification. I beg to differ but I don't intend to mock or belittle anyone. I enjoyed "The Life of Pi" but it hasn't changed my view of economic reugees. I wish to be compassionate but I do not enjoy people taking advantage of our hard-earned taxes with dubious claims. Some are genuine but the majority are well-off and taking advantage of out-dated legislation that was drafted for another time.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:50pm
    Aloysius
    That is really disgusting to say that OUR young men are fighting in Afghanistan and their young men are running away.

    USA REFUSED to give the Afghanistan their PROOF of Bin Laden's criminal activity, so Afghanistan rightly, under international law, refused to provide Bin Laden until such time as sufficient legal information was tabled before their courts, to allow the legal extradition. The PRETENCE was sufficient for the USA (and cohorts) to INVADE yet another country.

    The USA then proceeded to bomb and shoot as many people as possible, irrespective of who they aligned with..... remember the terrorist murders of many innocent people attending weddings & the cowardly DRONES attacks.

    Afghanistan is run by war lords who more powerful in their own country that they can withstand both Russians and USA invasions.

    ALL persons that assisted the USA in this recent invasion is marked for death, along with their families. You are calling them cowards for staying and wanting to take their families away to the countries that they helped.

    Again, I must say that I find your comment really disturbing and unacceptable.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:13pm
    I was using Life of Pi as a metaphor. At no stage did I imply you were being hoodwinked. I was merely expressing an alternate view of how conversations could be interpreted, especially if you take cultural differences into account. The tendency of Asian males to present the positive rather than be seen to be anything less than strong, for example.

    I seriously doubt the majority are well off and I don't know what measure you would use to come to that assumption. I have no doubt there are asylum seekers who are trying to rort the system, but those who are genuine should not be tarred with the same brush, and that is what i believe Scott Morrison is doing. He is demonising and dehumanizing them.
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:14pm
    I find it disturbing that facts disturb Mussitate. Our soldiers are fighting and dying in Afghanistan - fact. Their men are coming here in droves rather than fight for their cause - fact. I don't support the involvement of the USA or Australia in any middle-eastern conflict. After all, they are civil wars between groups that are unworthy of support and it's none of our business. Oh, there might be oil!
    AmandaR
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:00am
    Our soldiers are doing a commendable job, as they always do, and i hope they are able to come home safely and soon.

    In relation to the Afghani's, taking up arms to defend your rights in your own country should not be forced on anyone and that would be one option open to them. Fight or face persecution. Another option is to protest. Protest and face persecution.

    It takes a special kind of person with inner strength and commitment to fight back and influence change. I wonder how many of the asylum seekers would be educated and committed enough to able to do that? I wonder how many asylum seekers there are of the calibre of the Aung San Suu Kyi's or Nelson Mandela's of this world?
    BlackCatWalking
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:51am
    Aloysius,

    The issues are far more complex then local men deciding to take up arms and fight against a huge and powerful and well funded opposition. It takes volumes of money, and resources to be able to organise and do this. Many young men do though, many more poor civilians who cannot flee die in the process. Plus, there are so many other complex religious and political factors involved in the countries that, it's often difficult to establish who are enemy and there are massive war crimes committed all the time.These people are fleeing from that, it's not the same as a rich western country utilising a well funded and organised army to fight against it's opposition.
    Aloysius
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:14am
    I suggest you read the history of Afghanistan. The Russians couldn't win and we won't win. Their culture has always been one of war lords and in-fighting and nothing that's happening now will change it. What has changed is that timid Western countries feel that they have have to rescue people and provide them with welfare. Guess what? Here they come!
    BlackCatWalking
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:12am
    Aloysius,

    the history of the Afghanistan war actually strengthens my argument and weakens yours.

    But I think what is really driving most of arguments is the fact that you don't really care about what happens to other people in other countries. You want to put yourself before others.
    Aloysius
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:36pm
    The Australian Government's duty is to look after the Australian people. Let the UN look after the world. Call it selfish or realistic. A small country like Australia is not responsible for the welfare of the rest of the world. A modest contribution is appropriate but it should not be controlled by people smugglers.
    Not Amused
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:26pm
    The people pictured on the link below arriving at Christmas Island don't show any resemblance whatsoever of frightened, under-nourished persons running for their lives.

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/08/paul-murray-on-2ue-right-now-131332.html#tpe-action-posted-6a0177444b0c2e970d0192acb30eeb970d
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:43pm
    There is no stereotypical asylum seeker. I am sure there are a fair percentage who picture 'real' asylum seekers as starving, malnourised, tortured souls. But this is not the case. Please don't be so hasty as to judge a book by its cover. None of us have any idea of the stories those souls have to tell nor whether they are any less worthy because they do not fit your mental picture of someone in need of asylum.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:16pm
    They even give some all men camps free condoms. UGHH Probably full of disease.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:58pm
    Not Amused
    These photos are ridgy didge, you think. Michael Smith!!! of please, what a con. Yes, there are customs people there but what makes you think they are refugees.... michael smith told you so.....

    Dogs Body
    Like the rest of Australia and the prisons are all clean and lovely and nothing like that goes on? Just muck raking old boy. You probably have as many diseases as these people have. UGHH!
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    1:03pm
    Masturbate---- I see you are still marking all the statements on here. We all know you are a crack pot. Just relax and let someone else have a say. When did they let you out you queer??? UGHH
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:40pm
    Dogs Body.... dear thing

    We doooooo try and maintain some decorum on here and I must say that you have failed the basics on this. We all stretch it a little BUT it is a good idea to try and hold back a little.

    Unfortunately for you but fortunately for ME....... I like it! It gives me an opportunity to 'play'.

    So.... dogs thingy.... oi... can you stop doing that.... oh! how gross. It is bad enough watching a dog do that but to have a dog's body with a human head doing that.... is rather bizarre, if not putrid.

    Have you NO shame my dear little PROL. I don't suppose, in your case, that there will be any hope of intelligent thought... given that you are continually engrossed (the word 'gross' being particularly apt) with mundane bodily functions and YUKKY 'cleaning' functions.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    1:56pm
    "What do you think? Is the new term ‘illegal maritime arrivals’ more correct? Or is it dehumanising and wrong?"

    I think the responses above are a good indication that yes, the 'new' terminology is, at the very least, dehumanising. Morrison's terminology is polarising, feeds bigotry and absolutely abhorrent - in my opinion.

    There is a certain irony that the Government is keeping hush about arrivals and not releasing any details yet the terminology Morrison is instituting makes the front page and dominates social media. We can expect a whole lot more of this type of response from the public across all the portfolios because those that are responsible for the portfolios are not allowed to say anything that might be too closely scrutinised. Everything they say will be out of context because the facts or background information is not available to the public, the public will respond negatively. You can see it in the responses above and in any comments section under articles in mainstream media.
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:07pm
    Amanda
    there is news release on boat arrivals each week.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:13pm
    There are limited details Abby.
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:44pm
    'PRIME Minister Tony Abbott said the arrival of asylum seekers by boat had dropped dramatically since the election of the Coalition government'.

    See more at:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/asylum-seeker-boat-arrivals-are-slowing-tony-abbott-tells-sa-meeting/story-fn9hm1gu-1226742943842#sthash.BYyBmzwB.dpuf
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:46pm
    ""I think the responses above are a good indication that yes, the 'new' terminology is, at the very least, dehumanising. Morrison's terminology is polarising, feeds bigotry and absolutely abhorrent - in my opinion"

    I agree Amanda, and because he is in a position of authority people naturally defer to him as someone who knows all of the issues and facts. Unfortunately on this matter he is intellectually bankrupt.
    BlackCatWalking
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:56pm
    Abby,

    the Coalition hasn't changed the Rudd Governments policy and implemented their own policies. Labor therefore has a stronger claim to be making about slowing the boats.
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:43pm
    A spade is a spade by any other name. Euphemisms may trap some people, but the reality is they are ILLEGALS
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:04pm
    jeneregretrien
    No, you are simply wrong..... and can only assume that indoctrination by corporate (foreign) owned mainstream media, has simply been soaked up. Asylum seekers/refugees are NOT illegal, they have a LEGAL STATUS that is INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED. Australia has SIGNED its acknowledgement of this LEGAL STATUS.

    To force govt employees to refer to every asylum seeker/refugee who has an internationally recognised 'LEGAL STATUS' as ILLEGAL is simply feeding the PROLS! To understand this statement, you will need to read George ORWELL's "1984"..... good read and so relevant here!
    aquatrek
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:20am
    so Mustrate - the act of human trafficking is ok by you - let them prosper you promote - dont interfere you promote - hey are all refugees legally seeking asylum after having journeyed through more than one other country you promote - maybe you have private interests in an Indonesian boat or three ? stop the illegal human traffickers = stop the boats.
    Young Simmo
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:30am
    aquatrek, I went into the Centrelink web site and put Mussitate into their search engine. It turns out he is one of the first boat people from years ago, and is on his 5th Computer that people like you and me paid for.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:16pm
    aquatrek

    You are simply losing it old chum.

    I know you have trouble concentrating at times aquatrek but please try and keep up... we were talking about ABBOTT and his cohorts FORCING government employees to LABEL all LEGAL Asylum Seekers/Refugees as ILLEGALs.

    Human trafficking - is the trade in humans, most commonly for the purpose of sexual slavery, forced labor or for the extraction of organs or tissues,including surrogacy and ova removal. MOST people are AGAINST this! Has Abbott changed the meaning of this word as well!

    What next.... war is peace, maybe!

    YS
    That was simply NOT funny, besides NOT making a lot of sense. Give me more than that to play with, for goodness sake.
    aquatrek
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:30pm
    hahahahaha you cut and paste the definition from wikipedia hahahahaha
    try this one you moron
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_smuggling
    report back with one of your 1,000 word diatribes before dawn tomorrow - off you go now - get cracking

    22nd Oct 2013
    2:02pm
    All those who said seeking asylum is not way illegal are correct. The issue ONLY is the WAY in which asylum is sought.

    Now - I've studied this stuff (hooray!) - and the idea is that you can enter sovereign property of the nation you are seeking asylum from - i.e. Embassy etc, airport terminal, or land mass - but what you MUST do immediately and clearly is say you are seeking asylum and/or refugee status from the immigration (or other) officer(s) present.

    Now - the reality is, therefore, that in seeking to make landfall in Oz (merry old land of), asylum seekers on the high seas are NOT breaking the law - and the moment they enter sovereign waters - provided they make a clear statement of seeking asylum - they are NOT and cannot be 'illegal'.

    What remains is determination of their true status - and that is the area which is somewhat grey - since there are conflicting ideas of how and where this should be handled.

    I'm personally on the side of the asylum seekers - and would infinitely prefer a better organisation set up in Indonesia or wherever to handle their claims, and to provide safe passage - ONCE THEY HAVE ENTERED SOVEREIGN TERRITORY AND ASKED FOR ASYLUM - to a safe place of processing.
    Foxy
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:40pm
    "Whatsinaname" ????? Call 'em what you like - they are what they are - poor sods ! Like to see any one of us last one week in their shoes (that's if they have shoes) ........ :-(
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:48pm
    They all look pretty well heeled to me -

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/08/paul-murray-on-2ue-right-now-131332.html#tpe-action-posted-6a0177444b0c2e970d0192acb30eeb970d
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:49pm
    Hear, hear!
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:15pm
    I'm with you Foxy. And clothes do not the man make.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:19pm
    I think Poxy might be an illegal immigrant.
    Foxy
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:46pm
    listen furfer (surfer boy) and alias dogs body - leave me alone on here ok!? This is your last chance you f.........kin MORON !!!!!!!!!!!
    !
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:07pm
    What is this CRAP about MichaelSMITH's FAKE account of asylum seekers.... Abby.... stop the rot and stop putting up FAKE bulldust with statements suggesting that they are more than a SICK JOKE.
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:40pm
    Rachel, of course they are Illegal migrants. In my opinion they are committing a criminal offence as they are aiding and abetting the so called people smugglers. They are paying large sums of money to gain access here, without going through the correct immigration. procedures. I would like to know if Centrelink consider these payments as "gifting" when processing claims for these illegals. Yes I welcome new immigrants including refugees who have been awaiting re-settlement for many years, but not the likes of these queue jumpers. Send them back to the end of the queue.
    Abby
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:52pm
    Yes they should be sent to the UN waiting camps and the people who have been waiting there should come here for resettlement.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:01pm
    So - under what international law is 'aiding and abetting people smugglers' a crime? I don't see that one on the UN or International Court statutes - yet.

    This is a purely internal thing raised by Australian government (both kinds - country AND western)to justify its non-compliance with signed international treaties.

    Once more - installation of an initial facility in co-ordination with Indonesia would be a good start. At the very least, any asylum seekers would then have some hope - and might not set sail upon the stormy seas, ending in a watery death for far too many.

    As for Colonel C'Link:-

    "OK, Fatima - you've been allocated a seat on HMAS Australia headed for the Oz mainland - your children are being flown to avoid illness and such along the way. When you arrive at your new HOME - you will receive as much assistance as we can afford - but you will have to pay back the fares eventually."

    Have ANY of you people been homeless? I come from a background possibly as bad as that of many of these asylum seekers - and I've been homeless in Oz - my own country.

    There is NO place like home (clicks ruby slippers three times - very twee for a 6', 80 kg man)....

    Can ye no' find it in yer herrt t' tek in a wee refugee 'r two? 'S a big land 'here, wi' big herrted people - or so I ken! Wa's happen t' ye all?
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:26pm
    The.Grappler, you have made me cry!! YES, you MADE me cry. You are responsible for my compassion overflowing. You and others ( BlackCatWalking, AmandR and a few others)renew my faith in human nature. Thank you.

    I live in a great country and live a great life. My heart, home and land is open to those in need. Take what you need, I have more.
    FEDUP
    22nd Oct 2013
    2:53pm
    Rachael, I must sternly disagree with your comment. If a person arrives here in Australia by plane without a visa, then they are placed on the first available back to there country of origin, because they are illegal.
    Truly it is a shame that some, most of these are poor and seeking a better place to live, however, if they do not have papers of proof of identity or passports and a visa, they should be returned to their homeland, unless they can prove that they are refugees or outcasts from their own kind.
    tisme
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:22pm
    and Indonesia dares to question sovereignty ( spelling) Indonesia is breaching ours by allowing them to leave Indonesia.
    student
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:33pm
    The only way to arrive by plane is to have a visa FEDUP, do you mean the people that arrive by plane on a tourist visa and never leave?? Aren't they the true 'illegals' ??
    Dancer
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:30pm
    Regardless of what we call people who seek asylum in Australia, and by whatever means they come - by (unauthorised) boat or by (unauthorised) overstaying of their visa after arriving by plane - they are indeed human beings like you and me. All I can say is "There but for the grace of God go I, you and your families!"
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    3:38pm
    I could not agree more Dancer.
    jackeroo
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:48pm
    I am a WW2 refugee, arrived in 1949 on a ship who's previous cargo was either cattle or horses (they left lot's of traces). We were in one of 2 holds -Men and older boys aft, women and younger boys forrard. we slept in bunks 4xacroos and 4xup. We spent time in Displaced Persons camps before coming here, with literally the clothes on our back only. We did not have air-conditioned living quarters, just an old army hut, and mattresses filled with straw. The older boys and men were put straight to work in jobs most Aussies didn't want to do. We assimilated, did not form enclaves and protest, we were grateful. We were a lot of starving refugees looking for a home and not to change this country into the sewer hole that we left. We didn't get a $20,000 start up allowance and other benefits that this band of refugees living next door get (mobile phones, a staff of 3 workers to look after 4 refugees) all at the taxpayers expense.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:19pm
    I can understand your bitterness jackeroo. You are fortunate that you came during a time displaced people were relocated fairly quickly rather than left floundering in refugee camps for what could be decades.

    You assimilated because you had no choice. You may think you did it for noble reasons, but you came to Australia during the period of the White Australia Policy and assimilation was mandatory.
    jackeroo
    26th Oct 2013
    4:45pm
    You can't understand my bitterness simply because I was never bitter, but grateful. You have no idea how long I and my family spent in a DP Camp in Europe, nor how many people we saw die due to years of starvation and other privations. NOBODY forced us to assimilate, we did this willingly because we wanted to. You also have absolutely no clue as to my colour have you? "White Australia Policy and assimilation was mandatory" what a load of schoolgirl rubbish.
    AmandaR
    28th Oct 2013
    4:28pm
    "We didn't get a $20,000 start up allowance and other benefits that this band of refugees living next door get (mobile phones, a staff of 3 workers to look after 4 refugees) all at the taxpayers expense. "

    "The press does not show all the pictures of the illegals (yes ILLEGALS), just the tearjerkers for the consumption of the Greens and other intellectually deprived other rent-a-crowd." sounds pretty bitter to me.

    As for your colour, no. I have no idea of the colour of your skin. I was stating the situation as it was at the time your arrived.
    jackeroo
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:20pm
    Nobody seems to have considered the plight of the poor old GENUINE refugees in camps, who can't get here of the Economic Refugees here illegally. Anyone who has tens of thousands of dollars to pay to be smuggled in is not a refugee. The press does not show all the pictures of the illegals (yes ILLEGALS), just the tearjerkers for the consumption of the Greens and other intellectually deprived other rent-a-crowd.
    patcat
    22nd Oct 2013
    4:44pm
    If it was anyone than this woman commenting I would hear what she says.

    She has proven time and time that she is a spokesperson for the " Anti Coalition " party
    Jurassicgeek
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:01pm
    see all of you ...I have been calling them illegals for ages because that is what they are! but some here think they have entitlements and rights...They are illegas and they have no entitlements and no rights....Now even The Great Bat Eared Messiah even wantss them called illegals....
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:16pm
    No, you are simply wrong..... Asylum seekers/refugees are NOT illegal, they have a LEGAL STATUS that is INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED - Australia has SIGNED its acknowledgement of this LEGAL STATUS.

    Jurassicgeek, you are cool about many other topics but not this one for some reason. Wish I could get you to look at this from any other view than that plastered all over our corporate (foreign) owned media. Have you read George Orwell's "1984", it is worth the read.... note the change of govt dept names..eg. wars, invasions, etc are handled by the Dept. of PEACE.

    Let me know what you think, if you read it.... I read it a very long time ago, so maybe should read it again.
    Jurassicgeek
    23rd Oct 2013
    7:16pm
    Rubbish...anyone who enters this country illegally ...IS AN ILLEGAL!! there are no nice words to say it They either come in by the correct channels or they dont come in at all!..period! And as well Those that do come here illegally have NO rights and NO entitlements...Elect me Prime Minister and I will sort them out....
    Maxzee
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:16pm
    Of course it is illegal, When one enters another country with out consent it is illegal, or invading, when are we all going to call it as it is, to all the western World, wake up, and ask a few questions before our way of life is finished, first where are their papers, why would they destroy them if they are genuine? and will they swear on their book to uphold the laws of our country? then when they are processed and it is found they are lawfully here, they will be taken care of, Australia is a humane and caring country, but we can't take them all, we have not the infrastructure to take so many when so many of our own are going with out, the country may be large but much is unhabitable, those who are accepted should be allowed to stay until it is safe for them to return to their home land,
    So many passed other countries where they would have been safe to get here, then want Australia changed as it doesn't suit their ways and customs. Go read of what is happening in Europe, As Dogs body has said there are too many traitors among us.
    it is not illegal to claim asylem , but if you are genuine then you have a lot of Ports of call on the way here, so we must consider them as financial immigrants.
    We do not make these people get on to these boats operated by criminals, and then have them sayi it is Australia's fault when they sink! (50 metres off the coast of land, ( indonesia), Stop all this farce we are a laughing stock.And if and when they are allowed to stay they should have to wait 5 years as most immigrants had to in the past, before being granted citizenship, by then they can prove themselves as good citizens,
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:27pm
    Have we joined the bleeding hearts club on this site??? What is happening to this country. Do any of these people pay tax???? Or are they all sitting on their bums all day staring into space. How could anyone not call these people illegals??? Or is this sour grapes from labor party stooges?? Don't like to see Abbotts system working.
    Foxy
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:10pm
    sounds like you Dogsbody - sitting on ya arse all day - spewing crap and staring into space - you pay tax? lol - old nerd.......lol
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:18pm
    Okay, Foxy.... stop making me laugh, I am trying to be serious here!
    Anonymous
    27th Oct 2013
    11:28am
    Poxy foxy, Don't comment or reply to my contributions again you old hag and put those teeth in you disgusting piece of crap. I don't want to connect with garbage like you again. Lots of others have had enough of you. Also stop sending me those emails talking of love. I am really not interested.
    Young Simmo
    27th Oct 2013
    11:48am
    Mussitate, relax if she is talking of love for you, she must be blind and that should make you feel safer.
    Foxy
    27th Oct 2013
    5:38pm
    ...listen here you two lying nasty piece's of work (D/Body and Y/Simmo) - there is a new rule here in Victoria - ok - it is called "Aggravated Cyber Bullying" !!!! I have copied all your nasty comments to me on this website and kept a file on them and guess what - you will be sued - trust me - I/they will find you through your email! LEAVE ME ALONE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!!!!!!
    Foxy
    27th Oct 2013
    5:46pm
    I also doubt that the decent people that run this website would NOT wish to be involved with an investigation by the Victorian Police regarding the hateful and disgusting bullying you both have done to me this past six months! SHAME!!!!!!
    Young Simmo
    27th Oct 2013
    6:01pm
    Poxy Foxy, I repeat:
    Wow the pot calling the kettle black. Poxy Foxy you are the original name caller and sh*t slinger. If the replies to your disgusting unlady like mouthing off upset you, don't start it in the first place. People like me, Surfer and Dogs Body only give what we get. Ask anybody that knows me, and they will tell you that I am a wonderful, kind and generous gentleman. Also very modest.
    jeneregretrien
    27th Oct 2013
    6:25pm
    Foxy, you are not the innocent victim here, your earlier comment above about DB was not very flattering either. This is only one example of your own vexacious remarks that you have made quite frequently. There is a bit of larrikin in us all so do not take everything so personally. I am not defending anyone, but just making a point.
    Boof
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:43pm
    These people who pay "people Smugglers" are ILLEGAL. If they had a case, they would buy a plane fare to Australia, and claim Asylum, far cheaper. They often cross many borders to get here. We haven't got the infrastructure to support them, anyway. Aged Pensioners are being told that they can't get PUBLIC HOUSING, (at all), through unfortunate circumstances and are living rough.H'm. How is it that they can find housing, for them? Not for Australians own, who have worked and paid taxes for years, here.
    monica davis
    22nd Oct 2013
    5:54pm
    I have known many immigrants, who now are the backbone of our country.

    In the recent election neither major party was humane towards asylum seekers. These people should be assessed justly and assisted to make a fresh start. It is up to us to let our politicians known our feelings. Their travel-rorting sums would go a long way in aid!!
    PB
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:17pm
    It's grammatically incorrect, ignorant, immoral, stupid, rude, dehumanising and WRONG! What a government! So we publicly brand ourselves in the eyes of the rest of the world as unpleasant, nasty, rude, ignorant and boorish. Thanks mr Morrison and mr Abbott
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:24pm
    Yes I thank them for stating the truth.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:20pm
    jeneregretrien... your statement is very Proletarian.

    PB
    Very succinct and well stated + I couldn't agree more - so glad you are around.
    Aloysius
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:19am
    And the vast majority of countries that have not signed the outdated UN Refugee Convention are the good guys? Have I got that right?
    pbell3
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:29pm
    One should not get emotional over terminology. The reality is that anyone entering Australia without proper authority have entered the country illegally & as such are her illegally. However anyone who enters the country illegally may make a claim for asylum and once the status of the claim is finalised those whose claims are accepted are no longer illegal entrants but those whose claims are rejected remain illegally here & are deported
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:22pm
    NOT TRUE - Asylum seekers/refugees are NOT illegal, they have a LEGAL STATUS that is INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED - Australia has SIGNED its acknowledgement of this LEGAL STATUS.

    This legal status stays in place UNTIL proved otherwise... something to do with normal legal procedure... 'innocent until proven guilty'.... something like that.
    Flindersbar
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:34pm
    We can use an immense amount of fancy wurds but in the end are you legally entitled to be in a sovereign state if you have entered it by means other than those legally prescribed ?
    Answer in a single word will do
    Flindersbar
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:25pm
    NOT TRUE - Asylum seekers/refugees are NOT illegal, they have a LEGAL STATUS that is INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED - Australia has SIGNED its acknowledgement of this LEGAL STATUS.

    This legal status stays in place UNTIL proved otherwise... something to do with normal legal procedure... 'innocent until proven guilty'.... something like that.

    Sorry for simply repeating but it becomes somewhat depressing listening to racist propaganda spewed out by our wonderful Corporate (foreign) owned media, which people then repeat and sets up a George Orwell '1984' scenario, where it is okay to call legals, illegal. War is Peace... same thing.
    Pardelope
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:50pm
    What you label people who arrive unexpectedly is pointless and a "red herring" to keep the serious consequences of world over-population and dissent from being considered seriously.

    If you arrive in MOST countries through normal means and are found not to have a passport or the correct visas, you are normally held in custody at the airport for a few hours (without lawyers or courts being involved). You will be unlikely to have the opportunity to contact your embassy or anyone else. You are then deported back to where you came from - on the airline or other carrier - at their cost.

    If you overstay a visa and are found out, you are guilty of an offence - and by-the-way - ignorance is not considered to be an excuse. The country you are in has the right to deport you immediatly, throw you in gaol - or decide to be lenient and let you stay - if you can prove extenuating circumstances AND if you are judged to be a potential "good" citizen.

    Entering any country or its territories without going through correct channels is considered to be illegal and can have (but may not have) serious consequences.

    People who circumvent the usual requirements take their chances - with the risks involved - in the journey, border crossings, and on the final outcome (detention, repatriation, temporary visa - or (the holy grail) permanent residency).

    Seeking asylum is a "last ditch" but accepted method of pleading for your unauthorized arrival to be excused after you have provided reasons and proofs as to why you should be treated as an exception.

    Australia (and other countries) cannot take everyone who would wish to come for a better or safer life. They have to choose the numbers and types of people they accept - to protect their own citizens, and to ensure that the culture, economy, infrastructure, and eco-systems can support the increased future population.
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    6:57pm
    Yes and that is exactly how the Coalition is dealing with our border controls. Pardelope you have explained the situation in a pertinent way. it is a pity that politicians such as Christine Milne is too green to understand.
    Foxy
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:02pm
    Question? Why are all you sanctimonious freakin' do-gooders on here - yeah? All behind your computer screens bleating and bleating - in the luxury of your homes - food in ya fridges - petrol in your cars - electricity/gas/water - and sitting on here with your bigoted f....kin views about people who are prepared to risk their lives and that of their families to try - try- to make a better life for themselves? People who you would have no idea whatsoever of the brutality - famine - lack of what we call/consider to be "essentials" in our lives - for Christ's sakes have some compassion = oh please please........think about it!
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:10pm
    The compassionate would return them to their homeland, to fight for their rights and make their Country a better place in which to live. I am one of these compassionate people. Think about it please!
    Foxy
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:17pm
    ...utter rubbish! Sorry..........how can they fight/return to their homeland with the Dictators that consume their every being - ? Don't you people watch Dateline - Backstory - Four Corners - ? Arrghhhhhhhhhhh.....people in a lot of these countries have no voice !!!!!
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:34pm
    Foxy they certainly have a voice when they come here, trying to undermine our society in the process. They are willing to let their Countrymen die in the sea but are not willing to fight for their survival in their own Country.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:29pm
    jeneragretrien

    Yet another HARD LINER EXTREMIST. That is a sickening thing to say.

    You would be the very first to flee if your country was controlled by dictators or warlords who had seen you collaborating with the WESTERN invaders. You and your family would be simply earmarked for DEATH... OF COURSE YOU WOULD TAKE YOUR FAMILY WHERE EVER YOU COULD TO ENSURE THEIR SAFETY!
    Foxy
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:11pm
    ...hear hear Mussi - my sentiments exactly!!
    jeneregretrien
    23rd Oct 2013
    2:34pm
    They say the Truth hurts. These illegals are cunning, many of whom destroy their ID papers and then claim they are refugees. Utter nonsense. They are "scammers" trying to rip the TAXPAYERS of. I do not feel safe when these Illegals are let loose into the community without having been adequately screened. Thankfully we have a Government that understands the majority of Australians on this issue and it is taking the appropriate action to KEEP US SAFE.
    from the nanny state
    26th Oct 2013
    7:28am
    I am with you all the way jeneregretrien on this one... these criminals are very resourceful when it comes to staking a claim in another persons backyard but have not the guts or brains to stand up and be counted in their own homeland.They have no regard for the law and use it to their own advantage. Musclebrain and sly foxy would be 1st on the queue. Oh! these thousands and thousands of poor me people, crying and whimpering around the world. When it becomes like America here they will be off and on another junk seeking refuge in some other part of the world. They are gutless, greedy criminals. The indonesians get quite a substantial amount of money from Australians every year - for what- Their govt is corrupt - if they were honest there would not be all these people fleeing from their country.
    Why is people smuggling going on from there... most people go there for a holiday. No - the so called poor "asylum seekers" are country hunting illegally.
    I believe asylum seekers are put into detention with virtually nothing in other countries... but not here ... they get more than our own pensioners. We are always labelled as racists.... what's new. We are the most compassionate country in the world.. terrorists would slit your throat for a day's fun.
    Anonymous
    27th Oct 2013
    11:33am
    More stupid comments from an inane uneducated loser that does not understand the real situation. Poxy Foxy, you have it all wrong.
    aquatrek
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:22pm
    what a bunch of no hopers we have in those who are far right in ideology !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    arrival by people smuggler boat from anywhere is an ILLEGAL entry. [that is a full-stop]

    That is what is being done, that is what they are doing and to call it anything else is a sham, a lie, a falsehood, a scam, a fault, a hypocrisy, a self deluding stuff up etc etc etc
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:31pm
    WRONG aquatrek, yet again.

    Asylum seekers/refugees are NOT illegal, they have a LEGAL STATUS that is INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED - Australia has SIGNED its acknowledgement of this LEGAL STATUS.

    This legal status stays in place UNTIL proved otherwise... something to do with normal legal procedure... 'innocent until proven guilty'.... something like that.

    The HYPOCRISY stay with you aquatrek.
    AmandaR
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:32pm
    Wow! Slammed the far right there aquatrek. But never mind, it probably went right over their heads. Unless you mistyped and meant the far left.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:09am
    AmandaR
    No, just assumed it was an error and left that one stand on its own because it was rather funny, coming from aquatrek. Plus I have stuffed up on occasions and people have 'let me off', so thought it prudent to do the same.
    AmandaR
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:17am
    You're too kind Mussitate. I quite liked the idea that aquatrek was likening them to Nazi's, fascists and racists.
    Young Simmo
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:25am
    AmandaR, it sounds like you are in bed with that Mussi-whats-his-name. I stopped replying to his comments some time ago because he is such a childish, immature imitation of KRUDD. He is so far left he just keeps going in circles.
    AmandaR
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:44am
    Feel free to stop replying to my comments Young Simmo. I won't be offended I promise.
    aquatrek
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:25pm
    oooops - seniors momento typo - I stand corrected - should read so 'far left' that there is no recognition of a right hand at all - nobody IMHO is denying that there are legitimate refugees - the semantics from those like Mustrate are tedious - I asked Mustrate if it condoned illegal trafficking in humans but of course that question is way outside the intellect range of such a rusted on nut job. The act of getting on an illegal craft [not registered nor compliant with maritime safety laws as to the seaworthiness [for example], paying an illegal [criminal] skipper and using it to go anywhere is in itself an illegal act. [fullstop]. That is regardless of whether they are day trippers out for a sojourn on the salty sea or transitting to a neighbours island for a Sunday pig roast or embarking on a well deserved overseas holiday and especially if entering into another countries legal maritime juristiction. [thats another fullstop]
    MiningMagnet
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:55pm
    The mind is like a book aqwa, and those whose minds only ever read one page will never travel far......
    *Imagine*
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:36pm
    A point of clarification - All boats, including Australian citizens re-entering Australia, must give 96hrs notice, prior to arrival in Australian waters. (http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4358.asp)

    Quote: The Master of a vessel arriving in Australia is required by law to give notice of impending arrival not later than 96 hours before arrival. Penalties may apply for failure to do so.
    It appears that all writers to this forum would be in breach of Australian Law if they arrived in Australia by boat without giving Customs appropriate notice. That is, they would be "illegal maritime arrivals".
    superboy
    22nd Oct 2013
    7:38pm
    They are Illegal. They haven't sought approval to come here. They have destroyed their papers. Try going to any other country. We are suckers for keeping them. They should do as legal immigrants to and apply through the regular channels and the unsavoury ones may be whittled out. It is also cheaper.
    jackeroo
    22nd Oct 2013
    8:40pm
    No one has yet realized the most important thing---the majority of these illegals are Muslim and have No tolerance for other faiths. I detest any religion that thinks it is okay to kill or maim women and children, and don't come the raw prawn about they are extremists, the others should be stopping them and not aiding them, but I digress from the point I was making. In 50 years or so this country will be Muslim with all the trappings of the worst aspects of that religion. then all these women voicing opinions will only voice the opinions of their husbands, and if they dare to disagree, thenunder Shariah law a beating is in order. Think about that one.
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    8:48pm
    I know this and so do most intelligent people in Australia, and you have emphasised this point. The sympathisers of the these illegals will be the first to jump ship when Australia is under siege from the Muslims.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:48pm
    Oh! NO... the religious CARD!!!!!

    Hypocrites both of you.

    If we are going to slip into RELIGIOUS bulldust, then MY OPINION is that ALL religions should be BANNED in Australia because it is all rubbish and simply causes people to HATE and SPIT POISON and COMMIT ATROCITIES.

    Why should I have to suffer religious dogma being part of OUR laws. IF we must have religion, then it is a PRIVATE thing and should be kept in the home or religious building.

    NO RELIGION should be able to FORCE by LAW other people to comply with ANY religious dogma. EXAMPLE: 1) Right to an abortion.... if you are religious, then DON'T have one 2) Right to Euthanasia.... if you are religious, then DON'T euthanise yourself and suffer the pain and lack of any dignity, in death.

    DON'T FORCE YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS on OTHERS. IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT THAT RELIGION IS and IF you insist that you should be able to be RELIGIOUS then DON'T be so HYPOCRITICAL to suggest that YOUR religion should be the only one about.

    Sheez! You people should have a good look at yourself.
    maxchugg
    23rd Oct 2013
    8:50am
    Why are two people hypocrites, Mussitate, when every claim they make is demonstrably true?
    If you are opposed to religions being able to force their beliefs upon others then why would you be happy about the arrival of people whose leaders typically claim that Australia will become an Islamic country where our laws will be replaced by their laws and ways of life which they purport to be fleeing.
    I was in London on the anniversary of 9/11 and saw on TV the disgraceful, hate filled demonstration that was organised in protest against a remembrance service for the people who died. I have also seen video of others of the same persuasion marching as a mob down the streets of the country that gave them refuge chanting "United Kingdom, go to hell. British police, go to hell."
    And as for Christian religions forcing their beliefs upon others, when did that ever happen in this country?
    And how many other countries around the world avoid the term "illegal immigrants" when discussing people who have made an entry in a manner which contravenes their immigration policies?
    aquatrek
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:28am
    MAXCHUGG: as if you would expect a sane rational response from a lunatic like Mustrate !!!
    miss aisle
    22nd Oct 2013
    8:48pm
    Why are we so cautious to mention the truth as we know it? If illegal is unlawful in our country, why the need to sugar-coat it? About time we accepted the term "illegal" !
    Some of the illegals travel half way around the world, bypassing muslim countries, not for asylum....otherwise they would join the people waiting in queues. No, these illegals have money, but nothing when they reach our shores. miss aisle
    jeneregretrien
    22nd Oct 2013
    8:56pm
    I think it is called "Political Correctness". The perpetrators of this heinous doctrine are traitors to the free thinking mind. I will never succumb to their wishes. ILLEGAL it is.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:51pm
    NOT sugar coated (miss aisle) & NOT political correctness (jeneregretrien - hard liner)

    It is a LIE to call refugees ILLEGAL.... simple as that.

    Repeat:
    Asylum seekers/refugees are NOT illegal, they have a LEGAL STATUS that is INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED - Australia has SIGNED its acknowledgement of this LEGAL STATUS.

    This legal status stays in place UNTIL proved otherwise... something to do with normal legal procedure... 'innocent until proven guilty'.... something like that... basis of our legal system, yes.
    jeneregretrien
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:12am
    Mussitate, repeat they are ILLEGALS as defined by our Governmment. Simple as that!
    geomac
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:40pm
    A murder suspect is not called a murderer until or if convicted . The alleged theft or suspected of such and such . The wording is meant to convey no alleged , suspected or asylum seeker till proven otherwise . So I can now with more justification than Morrison say rorter . Not alleged , suspected or innocent until proven otherwise because its in black and white .
    Aloysius
    22nd Oct 2013
    10:56pm
    Should they apply for bail? Try entering China or Japan without a visa.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:53pm
    Then China or Japan haven't signed up to the international agreement of refugees... yes?

    Plus you are looking at two of the most populated countries in the world!
    Aloysius
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:33am
    Ahh! There's the answer! Don't sign the UN Refugee Convention and everything is sweet and you can do as you like. Let's revoke our signature so we can also be seen as sweetness and light.
    Jurassicgeek
    28th Oct 2013
    12:42pm
    The idea of "innocent until Proven Guilty" is very admirable..These so called "innocents until proven gulity's" have paid an illegal people smuggler to bring them illegally into our country ..how can they NOT be called illegals...The other side of the coin is these "alleged illegals" are ripping off our system..(see Young simmo below) and if we did that we would be jailed...alledgedly!! So whatever to do gooders and others want to call it them.. I still call them illegals and they should be put on the next plane out of here...
    Jurassicgeek
    28th Oct 2013
    12:46pm
    I just remembered ... there are no boats so how can there be any illegals.??/ Old Bat Ears has stopped the boats ...I havent heard of any lately ..so we wont have to worry about them any more...
    Young Simmo
    22nd Oct 2013
    11:44pm
    I haven't read all the above comments, but have read enough to see the usual amount of ignorant do-gooders are still out there. If I diddle Centrelink out of $100 I have to pay it back. If I diddle Centrelink out of 10 or $20,000 I go to court and jail. These boat people diddle Centrelink out out of $250,000 and then get all the freebies. In my book they are ILLEGAL, without a doubt.
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:04am
    FIRSTLY:
    It is a LIE to call refugees ILLEGAL.... simple as that.

    Repeat:
    Asylum seekers/refugees are NOT illegal, they have a LEGAL STATUS that is INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED - Australia has SIGNED its acknowledgement of this LEGAL STATUS.

    This legal status stays in place UNTIL proved otherwise... something to do with normal legal procedure... 'innocent until proven guilty'.... something like that... basis of our legal system, yes.

    SECONDLY:
    Centrelink and $250000.... really? and your proof and not propaganda on this. I would say that paying wealthy people the equivalent of $75000pa to have a baby will top this very easily. The SCAMS that will be undertaken by those wealthy enough to employ their own wives, 10 months before they have a child, and pay them in excess of $150,000... easy enough to do, simply drop their own wage and bump up hers. The govt then shells out OUR tax money into wealthy pockets.... it is called transference of wealth from the public purse into private pockets. I have already detailed above how new wealthy immigrants to Australia can set up an Australian $2 company, runs a bulldust business, which sponsors them and their families (normally more than one family join together) into Australia and which allows them become citizens within two years. They too can access this RORT/SCAM for receiving govt money for bugger all.
    geomac
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:09am
    Abbott diddled nearly ten grand from taxpayers , no court , no jail . Just paid it back . Imagine me or you trying that with centrelink .
    aquatrek
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:25am
    well well well - the NLP basher commie buddies are back in unison - Mustrate and geomac. geomac even brings in the politician expenses issue [that all pollies from many a party have been exposed on] while the other one-eyed political ranter cant get it through his thick skull that using human traffickers to get to the Oz shores is an illegal act. They are ILLEGAL refuge seeking asylum seekers.
    geomac
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:22am
    Reds under the bed aqua awakes from his fifties snooze to do his impression of the Simpsons grandpa . Mildly amusing but a little sad too .
    Anonymous
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:49pm
    geomac... no, the travel is in excess of $60,000 and NOT just $10,000 and I believe that the matter has been taken up by the Federal Police. Although I am sure that it won't see the light of day, given Abbott's honesty and integrity in ensuring that 'due process' and the 'rule of law' are 'appropriately' applied.

    Liked your response to the 50's hard line kid.... nice.
    Irishwolfhound
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:30am
    No one said it was "Illegal to claim asylum" it is illegal to try and enter Australia on a boat from whereever, without passports or papers to define who you are. They boat arrivals are taking places from more deserving people who have been waiting in camps all round the world. If these illegal boat people were genuine they would have sough asylum in one of the many countries they pass through to get here. They are economic migrants, they want all the benefits of living here, but with all the carp from their country of birth. No thank you - let us take people from the camps - they have been waiting patiently for years.
    MITZY
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:51am
    Gee, 191 comments as I write. I wonder what this "silent" government is covering up at present by demanding that all who come in contact with asylum seekers refer to them as "illegals". Was that Mr. Morrison's "weekly report to the nation"?
    The sooner Parliament sits the better.
    Young Simmo
    23rd Oct 2013
    1:02am
    Egyptian, Parliament is sitting, a little while ago they announced on TV that all pensioners are going to get a $50 increase from Xmas Eve. Then my wife bumped my shoulder and said, "Wake up, it is time to go and chop some wood", bugger.
    MITZY
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:11am
    Ah Ha Young Simmo: Yes, they are sitting, with an anticipated Christmas Present of $50 for pensioners!!?? They would all fall off their perches. But, then again, the shock to us pensioners at receiving "pennies from heaven" could also render us to fall of our perches!! I hope there are not too many contentious subjects to comment on for the next few days, my new best mate MITZY the miniature poodle is arriving this afternoon. I'll take comfort in her presence.
    Cheers to you and yours.
    Tom Tank
    23rd Oct 2013
    8:48am
    It is not illegal to claim asylum but surely it is illegal to be an MP in Perth and fly to Cairns to buy a property then claim expenses for that trip on the basis it was electorate business.
    The double talk out of Canberra is quite breathtaking with spin doctors having a field day and to think Tony indicated we were going to have open honest government.
    Sorry Tony you have fallen at the first hurdle as you are playing the same political game that you accused Labour party of playing.
    Aloysius
    23rd Oct 2013
    8:50am
    Subject: UK Border Agency....

    Five blokes in an Audi Quattro arrived at the Holyhead ferry checkpoint.
    Tracey, in her brand new uniform, stops them and tells them: "I can't let you on the ferry.
    It is illegal to have 5 people in a Quattro.
    Quattro means four.
    One of you will have to get out and stay behind."
    "Quattro is just the name of the car," the driver replies disbelievingly.
    "Look at the papers: this car is designed to carry five persons."
    "You cannot pull that one on me.
    This is Tracey you're talking to here," she replies with a smile.
    "Quattro means four.
    You have five people in your car and you are therefore breaking the law.
    So I can't let you onto the ferry. It's more than my job's worth to let you all on."
    The driver is now very cross and replies angrily, "I've had enough of you.
    Call your supervisor over.
    I want to speak to someone with more intelligence!"
    Sorry," responds Tracey, "but Sharon is busy dealing with the two blokes in the Fiat Uno".
    wally
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:35am
    Funny that so many pensioner respondents are so keen to jump to the defence of the queue jumping illegal migrant boat people. Considering the dislocation these people cause in diverting taxpayer funds away from resources better spent on looking after Australia's aging population, one might wonder if our champions of the illegals are really in need of pensioner assistance at all. Perhaps if the neediest pensioners could afford to learn to own and use computers, we might see a different point of view expressed in this forum. While I feel that it is permissible for the "cluckier" bleeding heart do-gooder types to express their views, I wish they would be more discriminating in selecting who their hearts bleed for.
    Maybe they could support Sea Shepherd in annoying the Japanese whaling fleet, for a start, or help game wardens in African countries shoot poachers of endangered African wildlife. Or maybe they could support the controlled burning of leaf litter and undergrowth in Australian forests to reduce the severity of bush fires. thereby saving native Australian wildlife from hideous death by fire. Or how about calling for the expansion of Australia's Customs and Quarantine services to stem the flow of guns and illegal narcotic drugs into Australia. Or if they want to save the planet by demonising the miners, sellers and users of coal, maybe they should instead support the development of nuclear power in Australia.
    But I dream. The latte slurping trendy lefties in the gentrified former inner city slums follow an agenda set out for them like sheep being led to the slaughter pens and do not bother to investigate for them selves what issues confront Australia and the world.
    It is easier and more convenient to let others do their thinking for them.
    Foxy
    23rd Oct 2013
    2:41pm
    .. great "post" and great thought provoking issues - thank you!
    standup+becounted
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:20am
    These arrivals are not entering illegally unless they are not genuine refugees and that takes time to establish. International law gives all citizens of every country the right to seek asylum in a country other than their own if they have reasonable cause to fear for their wellbeing. A vast majority of such arrivals on Australia's shores have subsequently been proven to be genuine refugees. Until their status is established they are irregular arrivals or overstayers (for those who fly in on a visa and fail to leave). Why is it that, throughout Europe, where the number of displaced persons seeking a new life in a safer place is much higher, they are simply called migrants. Here our politicians simply abuse them to advance base political motives and label them asylum seekers or, worse, illegals, in a derogatory manner. Australia, an affluent nation by any standard, takes a tiny, tiny percentage of refugees. We are not lifting our weight in that regard and our reputation internationally is tarnished by our stance. Statistics on irregular maritime arrivals are available at http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/r/stat-as.php and this is how we stack up against other nations: http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/r/stat-int.php … Because the issue of displaced persons is a global one, all nations need to pitch in to address the conundrum. Ours is - and has been for many decades - a multicultural nation that has welcomed people from every corner of the globe, many of whom fled areas that were troubled or they themselves were under duress. Hundreds of thousands of those people have gone on to become significant contributors to the strength, diversity and culture of today's Australia and could hardly be called welchers. This is one of the key reasons why being a member of the UN Security Council is important for a nation of our size. Any steps the global community can take to diminish violence towards citizens in troubled countries will help staunch 'forced' migration. Australia, as an island with no land borders with other countries, does not have to contend with millions flooding over its borders as other nations do. To not help resettle at least our share of these people will only allow the sort of human rights abuses that have, in the past, sparked world wars. We are, whether we like it or not, part of this global conundrum. We have a responsibility to be strong enough to be part of the solution and not part of the larger problem. Our politicians seem, at least domestically, to be playing a very different tune. And they are misleading their constituents in dangerous and divisive ways.
    jackeroo
    23rd Oct 2013
    2:35pm
    What a Tosser. Australia Affluent???? Our debt is the region of $500 billion!!!!!!!!! We can't look after our own and you come up with this dribble of "Our international Standing"? Grow up!!! A number of these "refugees" are escaped criminals, hence missing papers.
    AmandaR
    23rd Oct 2013
    5:29pm
    Good post standup+becounted.

    Your post is disturbing jackeroo and your facts are exaggerated. $500b? I think you are confusing debt with credit limit - but you are right to be concerned about it. What sticks out is where you say "A number of these "refugees" are escaped criminals, hence missing papers" Oh dear.. how on earth do you come to this conclusion? Who feeds you this rubbish?
    jackeroo
    26th Oct 2013
    4:30pm
    To all you bleeding heart do-gooders, there are a lot of people here, old age pensioners and people and families disabilities that you could help if you stopped being holier than though and got up off your fat rear ends.
    Also Amanda, spend more time reading the news etc. and you would find that the debt (That is money we borrowed ) is in excess of $350 billions thanks to the profligate Labor Party, and is expected to blow out to $500 billion. The taxpayer funding for education was wasted on you wasn't it? You quote government websites as a reference and it sounds like you actually believe what is said. How sad. After driving federal pollies around for a number of years I know different.
    AmandaR
    30th Oct 2013
    4:25pm
    Ooooohhh smackdown! hahahahahaha Thanks for the laugh.
    macca
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:23am
    I agree that no human is illegal; but many human actions are.
    Is a criminal an illegal person? No!, their actions are.
    This is the same with immigrants who try to queue jump.
    They are still humans trying to escape from (usually) persecution of some sort; but there are legal ways of doing this, therefore any other way is illegal.
    This means, to me, that immigrants coming in in an illegal way are illegal immigrants.
    It has not changed their humanity, but their actions are illegal.
    There is so much political correctness that real sense has been driven away, and anything that is not seen as politically correct is wrong.
    Young Simmo
    23rd Oct 2013
    11:37am
    Maybe if it is so incredibly wrong to call gate crashing, robbing, murdering boat people Illegal, we should stop calling Labor supporters Flamming Wankers.
    Foxy
    23rd Oct 2013
    2:43pm
    ...tut tut - your trailer-park language does not become you Old Simmo!
    surfer
    29th Oct 2013
    10:55am
    Watch out Young Simmo, Poxy is after you. Putting on her wig and her wooden leg.
    Young Simmo
    29th Oct 2013
    1:42pm
    Fortunately surfer, with those crossed eyes she will see 2 of me, and if the dribble she writes here is any indication, she will pick the wrong image every time. But I will carry a can of fly spray with me just in case.
    Hasbeen
    23rd Oct 2013
    12:51pm
    Those who blather about boarder runners not being illegal should try sailing a boat into Indonesia without the correct documentation, & the right visas.

    A bloke I know did. He was in prison for 5 months before he got to court. Quite a bit of money changed hands to get him off with a warning. Oh in case you don't understand, it was his family paying to get him out, not the Indonesians giving him everything he ever wanted.

    When he got our his boat had been totally stripped, even down to the sails, ropes & motor.

    Got to give it to those Indonesians. They know how to treat illegals.
    AmandaR
    23rd Oct 2013
    1:42pm
    What has this got to do with asylum seekers? Was your mate fleeing persecution? Or was he just an idiot?
    jackeroo
    23rd Oct 2013
    2:28pm
    I am done with this but I have one last comment, Anyone who thinks that they can get honest stats info from a Government website has rocks in their head. Please come and see me as I have a couple of bridges I could sell you cheap. As to the statement "They don't get Centrelink benefits when they arrive. When they are given bridign visas the red cross and other non profits help them." is incorrect! I live next door to a house (one of many) run by one of the "Non Profs" who have thrown paperwork over our fence SHOWS clearly what each of the detainees gets from Centrelink.This house is funded also by Our taxes over and above Centrelink payments. Bye.
    Foxy
    23rd Oct 2013
    3:08pm
    Just to set allll records straight - if anyone here is genuinely interested in what assistance the asylum seekers/refugees get from the Australian Government.......please read

    FACT SHEET 98 "Settlement Services for Refugees"

    or simply Google - "what does the Australian Govt. give asylum seekers" - quite amazing actually! - Anyway there is far too much info. on there that people could get upset about what these people are given etc. etc. - so happy reading folks!!! Yadda yadda yadda ...................
    geomac
    23rd Oct 2013
    6:06pm
    Foxy
    I have done that google search before and found the exaggerations and falsehoods spread by some to incorrect . Funny thing is the people who sent me the wrong info were not appreciative of being shown correct info , no thank you at all .
    Foxy
    24th Oct 2013
    9:56am
    geomac - this statement of what people receive on arrival is on the Australian Government Website - why would "they" exaggerate and have incorrect information? Are we talking about the same thing? Sorry..........?
    jeneregretrien
    24th Oct 2013
    7:29pm
    And what are giving them Foxy? Those who welcome these illegals can take them under their wing, without any other Taxpayers' money. Your love for them will be enough. I wouldn't have one in my house under any circumstances.
    aquatrek
    24th Oct 2013
    7:51pm
    Note: geomac has difficulty 'reading' anything that doesnt fit into his spectre of communistic enthusiasm - what, you gave a government 'FACT SHEET' with a bloody number on it as well - geez geomac will have an apolectic stroke just thinking about it !!!
    geomac
    24th Oct 2013
    8:18pm
    Foxy
    The email saying refugees get more than pensioners was one that i found incorrect . I instead found that they get 80% odd of Newstart which is something like 200 bucks below the pension .
    From the fact sheet
    Do refugees receive more than other Australians?

    There have been a number of concerns raised within parts of the Australian community that more assistance is provided to refugee entrants than to other Australians, such as pensioners. There is no truth to these claims.

    Refugees and other humanitarian entrants do not receive higher benefits than other social security recipients. They have the same entitlements as all other Australian permanent residents. Refugees do not have their rental bonds automatically paid for by the government, nor do they receive a lump sum payment from the government upon arrival.
    Young Simmo
    24th Oct 2013
    8:46pm
    geomac, You say "The email saying refugees get more than pensioners was one that i found incorrect ."
    I am a Pensioner and I don't get,
    Free Mobile Phone
    Free accommodation
    Free food
    Free Computer
    Free Television
    Free plane rides, just to name a few items. But my taxes pay for these illegal bludgers to get these things.
    aquatrek
    24th Oct 2013
    9:14pm
    geomac: your response to YS is ???????

    lets face it - your bleeding communist/socialist heart POLICY of 'lets take ALL asylum seekers' regardless of who they are, where they came from , how they got here, what are their intentions, have they any ID, have theirfamily here ?, have they finances of their own ?, have they documents of any type ?, WHY are they here ?

    is all readily answered by your personal commitment to 'TAKE THEM INTO YOUR OWN HOUSE'

    that wont happen = will it 'comrade' ?
    geomac
    24th Oct 2013
    9:16pm
    Simmo
    I was referring to social security payment hence my mention of the Newstart payment . Now you claim these things are free but provide no URL to back up your claim . Are your talking about food supplied to detainees and a communal tv/computer that is the property of the jailer ? I take it you refer to incarceration as free accommodation but you do not elaborate . To compare a pensioner and a refugee as I did one has to realise both are getting social service payments and not facilities provided by a security company that has refugees under lock and key . Which are you referring to ?
    geomac
    24th Oct 2013
    9:23pm
    aqua
    I,m touched that you think we are close enough for you to call me comrade but must advise you that I cannot reciprocate your friendship . You are too mealy mouthed for me to consider it genuine . I live in a one bedroom unit and have never offered to house any refugee . In fact I have never been of the opinion that we should accept all arrivals to our land no matter what form of transport . I know for sure you have never seen any comment by me here or anywhere else advocating that . So as usual you are flapping your lips but not much of worth being said . At least you are consistent aqua , gotta give you that .
    alfie
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:02pm
    A game of words... It is not illegal to seek asylum but to use illegal means to get here by boat because of the benefits of this country compard to Indonesia then you become illegal in any language and because you have done something illegal then you have committed a crime and face the law...that's the law...therefore they should stay in indonesia (first country) and go to the refugee camps there and wait their turn just like the thousands who have rightly done so and are patiently waiting for their turn. Every illegal boat that arrives to Australia steals from the people waitng in the refugee camps and that's unaustralian to me who likes to see fairness to all. Making pity excuses for them coming by boat only encourages them to come and those that defend their means are inhumane themselves because by doing so they (refugees) will get on the boats and come. If we all come together and dislike their means of coming it will stop them because who wants to come to a country where they are not wanted because of their illegal methods of coming here... this will save lives, not making excuses for them to come by boats.
    MiningMagnet
    23rd Oct 2013
    9:59pm
    Glad to see the usual party apologists and the resident RWWJ are dutifully repeating their dogma or mouthing the govt's press releases without applying to it, any moral or ethical considerations of any kind.....flexible moral code that....hhmmmm
    So the discussion is settled on party lines.....shheesh....what's wrong with you people.
    The conversation appears to be independent of any discussion of the legal questions involved or the preference the current govt has for using a compliant press to 'change the battle-space' under which the conversation takes place.....again independent of facts...
    If you can get the morons to be distracted by enough party political hyperbole we can keep the conversation away from any legal or ethical commitment Australia may have to respond to people seeking asylum by whatever means. By keeping it emotional enough for long enough we maybe won't notice that the pre-election hype has not only been biblically unsuccessful, but it appears that the aussie govt 'policies' have zero impact on the number of boats arriving....
    Oh that's right we don't talk about the numbers of boats do we...hahahahaha.....oops, and we won't talk about people who tell lies to get into power all of a sudden....hahahahah....funny, it was a big deal when the Labs were in...hahahaha
    It is incorrect to 'label' someone shoplifting with fraud, just as it is incorrect to 'label' asylum seekers as 'illegal immigrants'...
    You may have your bigotry or political leanings stirred by the effrontery of a refugee to want to settle here and you can use whatever 'delightful' descriptions you like BUT reverse the situation and see how you heroes go...
    If your family was at risk, what would you do to enable them to survive ?.
    For most of these people their choices are often that simple - the fact that the right-wing loonies have chosen to label the situation something else or to paint these people as some other circumstance bears investigation NOT supine agreement. Show a bit of ticker folks - do something different - investigate the numbers and circumstance yourself.....and see if your view remains as closely aligned to the Libs political spin.....(party apologists are exempt from this process because the poor things can't/won't or are not allowed to think for themselves...hahahaha...and we all know who you are ...hahahaha)
    Some time ago there was a YLC discussion about what characteristics separated Australia from the rest of the world.
    I believed then and still do that "generosity of the spirit' is what makes us different - this savaging of a small group of people doing it tough is beneath contempt in my opinion and is very revealing about the character of those lashing out at others in a situation they do not understand.
    Curiously enough, the party press or the daily news IS NOT the best source of impartial, factual discussion or assessment of the refugee situation around the planet - it's almost like they don't care if you are mis-informed, as long as you just accept and obey......
    I have lived and worked with people from all over the planet and have yet to find any national or religious group better or worse than any other.....bigots and sad, broken, mean-spirited little people however, appear to be common to all races and religions.....
    aquatrek
    23rd Oct 2013
    10:50pm
    REALITY: A picture tells a thousand words.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_military_conflicts

    Democratic, multi-cultural Australia is like a beacon of hope - way way down along a string of conflicts.

    An Afghani, Lybian, Egyptian, Syrian or Sri Lankan has a bloody loooong way to go to get to Oz.
    Meanwhile bypassing other regions of conflict. Dictators are the cause of much of the regional uprisings i.e. Gaddafi, Saddam, Al Queda. The Arab Spring called for democracy - yet that is in direct conflict with Islamic ideology.

    So Oz faces a two edged sword - a non christian religion emigration via asylum seeking and the latter using an illegal method of entry.
    Anonymous
    24th Oct 2013
    12:18am
    Dictators like the kings in Saudi Arabia conduct some of the worst atrocities, particularly against women but we do not hear about it because they are fully supported by the USA.

    Saddam was originally put into Iraq by the USA and was okay whilst he waged an illegal war on Iran which was funded by the USA.... Iraq also used chemical weapons which the USA were aware of. But when Saddam started selling oil in NON US$, the USA moved in to take control of that oil. Prior to the illegal invasion (over 600,000 innocents slaughtered) of Iraq, it was NOT an extremist muslim country and the women were able to freely participate in the economy.

    Gaddafi was a socialist that had to deal with war lords and did amazing things for his country and his people. The pipeline he built was supposed to be a world wonder and it brought water to the desert. Libya was NOT an extremist muslim country and the women were able to freely participate in the economy. UNTIL the USA funded Al Qaeda faction took over, that is, and now we have an EXTREMIST muslim group controlling Libya and persecuting women and committing untold atrocities. The ones we don't hear about from our Corporate (USA) controlled media.

    Al Qaeda is an EXTREMIST fundamental muslim faction that was created by Bin Laden who was from one of the wealthy SAUDI ARABIAN families. Al Qaeda was funded and supported by the USA in both the Libyan and Syrian ILLEGAL INVASIONS. EVEN though this group is a fundamentalist (extreme) muslim faction that has and is still committing atrocities in both Libya and Syria and has been PROVEN to use chemical weapons.

    The Arab Spring had nothing to do with democracy, it was about illegal invasions by a war mongering nation to take control of Arab assets, such as oil and gold and strategic land tracts. As these actions were for the benefit of the 'select few' in the USA, the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocents was merely 'collateral damage' and torture was okay, if conducted by the USA and was condoned as acceptable, at the highest level.

    Religion -
    *what is the difference between moderate christians or moderate muslims or moderate hindus or moderate whatever.... not a lot, although in my opinion, all religions are a pain in the proverbial. Those ratified by Australia as LEGALLY entitled to seek Refugees status are generally moderates, simply seeking a place for their family to live in peace.
    *the EXTREMISTS is what we need to ensure remain outside Australia, irrespective of whether they are christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists, jews, scientologists or any other religious group. Most extremists that come to Australia are legal immigrants who are wealthy..... these are the ones that bring discord and unwelcome hatred to Australia. It is the wealthy extremists who have ironclad control over their children because of the MONEY, which ensures that their extremist views do not dissipate as quickly as they should over the course of the generations that follow.

    Christianity does NOT own Australia and should NOT have any say over our laws (i.e. abortion or euthanasia) or what religion people should be that enter this country. Religion is a private thing and should be kept that way.
    aquatrek
    24th Oct 2013
    10:02am
    geeez Mustrate: you didnt critique the punctuation, the font, the colours on the screen, whether your underwear is clean - everything thing but enter a discourse about the plight of those seeking asylum by illegal means !!!

    your are a ranting anti-USA obsessed sicko
    Young Simmo
    24th Oct 2013
    12:21am
    Am I the only one? or are there others like me? I read as many as possible of the comments, say up to 10 to 20 lines. But these WANKERS that write pages of B***sh*t, I just screen over. Take note WANKERS, if you can't get your message across in 20 lines, give up.
    Trust me, I am a WEST AUSIE LIBERAL Voter, so I am always right. My initials are JS, but should be JC.
    Foxy
    24th Oct 2013
    10:00am
    gimme a break Old Simmo - JC??? lol lol - should be TT "Trailer Trash" (1 line) :-)
    Pardelope
    24th Oct 2013
    11:15am
    YS - you are A West Aussie Liberal voter????? You mean you voted for "Emperor B" and "Sniffer"!

    Sorry - you have just lost my attention and consideration of your opinions.
    Young Simmo
    24th Oct 2013
    11:45am
    Pardelope, losing your attention has made my day. I am only asking out of curiosity, but are you and Foxy both in the same Mental Hospital?
    Foxy uses 3 ?, and you use 5. Best if you both tell father Xmas that you want Calculators for Xmas.
    Foxy
    26th Oct 2013
    5:28pm
    yeah Old Simmo - we both in the same Mental Hospital - WE visited YOU!! Old Tosser....................lol lol lol
    Anonymous
    27th Oct 2013
    11:40am
    Young Simmo I agree with your statements and looks like Poxy Foxy and Pardepoop are one and the same. Lots of aliases with that Poxy blond. Good at dishing it out, but can't take it. She should be banned from this site after her fowl language and insults at Surfer, Young Simmo and Dogsbody.
    Foxy
    28th Oct 2013
    11:53am
    Fowl ?? lol - hilarious! Learn to spell ! So you still believe you are "two" people do you Surfer ? My my - serious treatment is required........sighs.....as I said in an earlier "post" - why do you think people on this site would "warn" me to "look out" because you have the TWO names on here ???? If they didn't care about me why would they tell me ? Go figure.......oh and also - someone told me you were banned from here awhile ago???? Really ??? lol lol .....I wonder why ?
    surfer
    29th Oct 2013
    11:03am
    Foxy, Straighten that wig of yours and clean those ugly fangs. We all know you and Pardepoop are one and the same. Trying some dirty tricks you old goat. I have had several say you are a disgrace to this site. Stop being nasty to Surfer, Young Simmo and Dogsbody, as they are all very nice people and really want to send your love back to you. You will be frustrated no longer.
    from the nanny state
    24th Oct 2013
    7:32am
    Illegal entry people who come by plane or boat by heavy payments to criminals from corrupt govts are aiding criminal activity. Why do these so called "asylum seekers" go back to the their country for holidays and to see friends....I do not believe them for one minute . They are as corrupt as the criminals who bring them here. The are cashed up queue jumpers bleating tears.Why do they ring Australia to pick them up when they are still in Indonesian waters. I would leave them there for Indonesia to pick them up and house them. It's their problem - not ours . We have enough problems of our own with housing shortage, mental health and hospitals and Australians who have lost everything due to fires and floods. Charity begins at home. We should look after Australians 1st. The so called "asylum seekers" are just dishonest. Some of you people here are probably paying into these Nigerian scams too. Wake up.
    unicorn
    24th Oct 2013
    8:20am
    I did not & will never vote Liberal but must say for one thing I agree with a liberal. These que jumpers are iillegals because they unlike those who arrive by plane do not carry passports instead they destroy papers so we do not even know where they are from except their last touch down was Indonesia. The Indonesian goverment only holds it's hand out for aid never admits that they are part of our biggest problem.
    These leaky tubs which are costing these people thousands per head to get here if lucky, and when they sink or start to they call Australia and beg for help, sometimes at others they demand help thousands of miles away from our shores. I know what I would do if I was in control.
    Niclewis
    24th Oct 2013
    8:47pm
    Firstly, this is not solely an Australian problem as some here seem to think, asylum seekers entering by boat, is occurring frequently in many countries in Europe, which have less land mass than the vast continent of Australia. So you can get rid of your preciousness. Secondly, how would those who have so much hatred towards others in trouble, feel if it was them in exactly the same circumstances as boat people, and what would you do? You couldn't have taken the time or trouble to listen to any of their stories as to why they had to flee like this. Thirdly, you are treating them as criminals and yet only very few asylum seekers have been found to be suspect, 97% if I remember correctly are authentic. Fourthly, a world without heart and compassion is a miserable world, and a disease of the Western world. I can understand why people see it as a problem because of resources etc, However, a solution can only be found globally because as I stated before, asylum seekers are not only coming to Australia, they are fleeing to many shores.
    Niclewis
    24th Oct 2013
    8:48pm
    Firstly, this is not solely an Australian problem as some here seem to think, asylum seekers entering by boat, is occurring frequently in many countries in Europe, which have less land mass than the vast continent of Australia. So you can get rid of your preciousness. Secondly, how would those who have so much hatred towards others in trouble, feel if it was them in the same circumstances as asylum seekers. I am sure you haven't thought of that, and you couldn't have taken the time or trouble to listen to any of their stories as to why they had to flee like this. Thirdly, you are treating them as criminals and yet only very few asylum seekers have been found to be suspect, 97% if I remember correctly are authentic. Fourthly, a world without heart and compassion is a miserable world, and a disease of the Western world. I can understand why people see it as a problem because of resources etc, However, a solution can only be found globally because as I stated before, asylum seekers are not only coming to Australia, they are fleeing to many shores.
    jeneregretrien
    24th Oct 2013
    8:51pm
    Beautiful words, do you work at the UN?
    aquatrek
    25th Oct 2013
    5:01pm
    Flowery UN type words are nice and pretty but do not address the issue. There is not a country on the planet that doesnt have some semblance of due process for anyone who is not a citizen entering the sovereign patch of dirt or water. So Australia has every right to also 'due process' asylum seekers. They are not treated like CRIMINALS at all - what rubbish. It is the onus of the asylum seeker to ascertain their validity. Not to just walk inand get registered as a citizen. Its part of OUR freedom of existence to determine just who the asylum seeker is. 97% good and 3% bad means that those 3% failed to pass the Australian laws put in place to keep undesirables out. Just be grateful that you live in a democracy that you can leave and reenter at will. The 97% get that opportunity as well. For comparison look at the USA and Mexico - there are so many immigrant 'illegals' in the USA that amnesties have been called so that they may become citizens. Is that what you would wish upon Australia - I think not.
    Niclewis
    24th Oct 2013
    8:50pm
    Firstly, this is not solely an Australian problem as some here seem to think, asylum seekers entering by boat, is occurring frequently in many countries in Europe, which have less land mass than the vast continent of Australia. So you can get rid of your preciousness. Secondly, how would those who have so much hatred towards others in trouble, feel if it was them in the same circumstances as asylum seekers. I am sure you haven't thought of that, and you couldn't have taken the time or trouble to listen to any of their stories as to why they had to flee like this. Thirdly, you are treating them as criminals and yet only very few asylum seekers have been found to be suspect, 97% if I remember correctly are authentic. Fourthly, a world without heart and compassion is a miserable world, and a disease of the Western world. I can understand why people see it as a problem because of resources etc, However, a solution can only be found globally because as I stated before, asylum seekers are not only coming to Australia, they are fleeing to many shores.
    Abby
    24th Oct 2013
    10:12pm
    How do you know they are not terrorists ?
    aquatrek
    24th Oct 2013
    10:17pm
    just ask them hehehehehehe
    Aloysius
    25th Oct 2013
    9:08am
    It beggars belief that millions need to flee rather thasn address the problem in their own country.
    from the nanny state
    25th Oct 2013
    9:35am
    Of course its a world problem... Europe is being flooded with these criminals as it is easier for them to walk over the borders than to get on a floating wreck with criminals who are not at all worried about their safety.. Australia is a large continent and a long way from their homelands. It is also mostly desert and most people want to live around the fringes. These people do have loads of money and have trashed and burnt facilities of the hard earned tax paying Australian citizens money which could go to helping our own in dire need. Papers have been tossed or forged for all we know and we are supposed to believe them. There are terrorists cells here as they are everywhere. I for one will not tolerate lies. If they are so terrorised why don't they seek asylum in the correct fashion instead of abetting the smugglers who really don't care. If they are so terrorised why then do they go home on a holiday after being established here to visit old friends in Australia. Once they reach a country which is safe, why then do they keep country seeking. Get your head out of the sand Niclewis. Any sob story would do for you.....
    jeneregretrien
    25th Oct 2013
    2:18pm
    from the nanny state. At least someone else taking a common sense approach to this "problem". The "bleeding" hearts have been out in force, but it is unlikely that any of them would have the courage or be willing to house and support an Illegal at their own costs. They are all mouth but no trousers as the saying goes.
    jeneregretrien
    25th Oct 2013
    4:33pm
    Aquatrek, you are right. Only thing is Australian would be considered racist and accused of discrimination if it ( The Government ) asked such a question. Our reputation on the world stage would be in disarray and just think of the repercussions on our International Trade. Indonesia for one would be very upset. The Greens and the Bleeding hearts would be outraged. Our safety is not an issue in their eyes. eeee
    Fathertoosa
    26th Oct 2013
    8:04am
    If they were as desperate as the politically correct supporters claim, why wouldn't they seek asylum in the closest country to theirs where they would be able to obtain asylum? To pay large amounts of money to get to their country of choice, ahead of the those who are trying to enter through formal and authorised processes, is just queue jumping and should be treated as such. Stop sympathising with these people who are milking the system and showing us no respect in the process. According to our laws, what they are doing is ILLEGAL.
    Abby
    26th Oct 2013
    11:22am
    I guess they do not get the welfare Australia used to give them compared to the other countries.
    jeneregretrien
    26th Oct 2013
    11:28am
    Most thinking Australians agree with you and I have already made my position quite clear on this topic. Now our Government has recognised the fact that those arriving on our shores without visas or in many cases no official documentation of their status, are entering our Country Illegally. Those affected will just have to get used to the idea, if they continue evading the Australian authorities. Alternatively, as you state, if they are genuine refuges fleeing persecution, them they would stay in the first Country in which they arrive. What amazes me is that most of them are of the Muslim faith, so why not remain in Indonesia for goodness sake. The answer is very clear; they are Economic "refugees", relying on the soft approach and taken by many Australian politicians and refugee advocates knowing our gullible these Australians are. The Federal Government must keep pressing the issue with Indonesia, so that Country stops dumping these Illegals on our shores. Fortunately Mr Abbott is doing his upmost to contain the situation and so far has seen much success.
    from the nanny state
    26th Oct 2013
    12:27pm
    Well said jeneregretrien... unfortunately the Indonesian govt accepts our money but does not accept our laws. Yes, these so called "asylum seekers" or for a better phrase GREEDY,LYING ILLEGAL COUNTRY SEEKERS are a law unto themselves.... 1st country of port for safety should be the acceptable port for asylum.... don't keep paying criminals to transport you after that... YOU ARE AN ILLEGAL and supporting criminal activity. You should be gaoled indefinitely and never ever be able to enter Australia and that goes for all your family as well. As for all the do-gooders, take off with them as we do not want you here either... you are trouble makers and traitors.
    Niclewis
    26th Oct 2013
    4:29pm
    That is precisely what Bush meant that we are traitors and troublemakers if we didn't side with America and enter into the Iraq war. In the end, after much investigation Western nations were fed lies, and much killing of many innocent people in the process including soldiers, children. It is a ridiculous statement.
    jeneregretrien
    26th Oct 2013
    6:11pm
    Wars are a means of reducing the population by "natural" attrition. After all Humans are animals and as is with all animal species self preservation is paramount. Some die some live , so what. life goes on. That is reality. The same goes with the Illegals they take a risk so they have to suffer the consequences , be it an adult or a child in their care.
    from the nanny state
    27th Oct 2013
    11:03am
    I hate war and unfortunately our brave men were sent their to protect us from terrorism spreading.... I would prefer them to fight it out themselves and I wish they would because I do not trust any of them.... we are only their for our protection.
    Mankind is always fighting over something usually land.... and control. It's always been and always will be....we are being fed lies from everywhere especially from the Illegals who wander from country to country queue jumping.

    26th Oct 2013
    7:01pm
    I look at this from the point of view of an asylum seeker, who has no money, and is living in a refugee camp waiting to be accepted by ANY country. I would be spitting chips if these well heeled, well dressed, cashed up queue jumpers kept me waiting longer and longer. How would the average Aussie feel if they kept on going to the back of the queue all the time.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for these people who are paying exhorbitant amounts to people smugglers. We are a soft touch. Plenty of other countries along the way to claim asylum but it has more to do with our generous welfare system than anything else.
    jeneregretrien
    26th Oct 2013
    7:07pm
    Yes and these people should be made to wear a badge " I am an Illegal" so the public are made aware of their presence.
    MiningMagnet
    27th Oct 2013
    10:49am
    Making people "wear a badge"... to denote their status certainly worked out for Hitler
    Maybe we could tattoo numbers on them so that we would be able to identify them for generations to come as well.....oh that's right, it's already been done
    Yucko, you awful little man....
    No doubt about it, these topics certainly reveal a lot about the individuals contributing to the discussion
    jeneregretrien
    27th Oct 2013
    11:07am
    Mining Magnet your suggestion of tattoos is repulsive a badge would suffice.
    Niclewis
    27th Oct 2013
    2:49pm
    Many of you are just quoting the terminology of politicians who use the words 'Illegal', 'queue jumpers' etc to gain votes as politicians do. They are not the facts or the law. I suggest you read the link below to educate yourselves instead of uneducated opinions (opinions are rarely substantial unless they have good ground and evidence based on real facts). The article is by an Australian barrister which addresses all the facts and laws on this subject, and includes his experience with boat people, who they are, whether they are queue jumpers and where they come from. And by the way his clients aren't only boat people, so the article is well rounded. It addresses this subject in total with facts, law and experience. I'm sure you will continue to have your opinions but they are just opinions and are based on fear and wanting to self protect. So what you say and politicians say about boat people or asylum seekers are not based on truths, facts, laws, or experience, they are assumptions of what is thought is real. And of course we know what politicians motives are. I'm sure how you feel is how the Indigenous of this country felt when strange, alien white people landed on these shores on unauthorised boats in 1788. The fears I can understand, criminalising and acting with such hatred towards people and circumstances you haven't taken the time to educate yourselves about, and don't want to, I cannot.It's like listening to gossip, but worse. Have a read. http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/alienation-to-alien-nation/ by Julian Burnside.
    jeneregretrien
    27th Oct 2013
    3:57pm
    Yes I have read the article, interesting but short on any real facts just legal "spin". It is one person's opinion only and has no more merit than that of others. 1788 and now , no comparison.
    from the nanny state
    28th Oct 2013
    9:04am
    Niclewis ... "Illegal is illegal"... asylum seeking is a different ball game which is approached in the "legal manner" not these little mongrels who come here lying, tossing identification, paying into criminal activity, expecting Australia to pick them up in non Australian waters by ringing us on their mobiles., When they don't get everything they want at a moments notice they decide to sew up their lips, burn down facilities which Australians pay for, abuse the people who are trying to help them at detention centres... in general completely abuse our laws and our hospitality. You need a valid passport to get on a plane when traveling overseas. They certainly don't have those passports when the plane lands in the next country.... that plane load of passports vanished in thin air when tossed down the plane toilet. If I got on a plane and arrived without a passport I would be detained and sent back to the original destination on the next plane....At Australia's expense we are supposed to find out who they are while housing, feeding and clothing them.. catering to their every whim. They are just dishonest deceitful illegal mongrels.If you don't want to protect Australia Niclewis then take off..You are another bleeding heart that Australia doesn't need. Australia must protect our borders. I don't want to see terrorists attacks in Australia. The Australian govt. at the moment is doing everything they can to protect Australia from these radicals.... You don't know who is on those boats and planes. They should stay and fight for their rights in their own country... their is enough of them to stand up and be counted..... don't bring their crap here.
    jeneregretrien
    28th Oct 2013
    9:49am
    re: from the nanny state. Unfortunately there at many like niclewis who cannot see "the wood for the trees". Yes Australia welcomes new immigrants including those that are seeking genuine refuge from real persecution. I accept this whole heartedly. However those arriving through the back door, so to speak, are denying others the chance to be re-settled in this Country. Those trying to force there way in by paying huge sums to Indonesians to bring them here should not be allowed to enter Australia. Sending them directly to an Offshore processing centre, to wait their turn. is the right thing to do. The refugee advocates really need to take this on board and be sensible about this growing problem.
    nightie
    29th Oct 2013
    2:33pm
    Can someone explain to me how an asylum seeker can fly from their country to Dubai, then to Indonesia, where they are given a visa on arrival, spend some time there, find a people smuggler, give them $US10,000 hand their passports over while boarding a boat is not engaging in illegal activity. Why can't they have their passports? Why do they have so much money?
    jeneregretrien
    29th Oct 2013
    2:53pm
    Because they are not refugees and are using that "status" to fast track their entry to this Country. Fortunately we now have a Federal Government determined to eradicate this Illegal Activity. No passport or visa no entry, simple as that. This should be enshrined in AUSTRALIAN law, and if necessary Australia should withdraw as a signatory to the UN convention which governs the "rights" of refugees. It will not affect our so called International standing one iota. The "rot" has to be stopped.
    Young Simmo
    29th Oct 2013
    2:46pm
    Well it is pretty quiet in here so maybe a change of pace is in order:

    Afternoon Sex:

    The only way to pull off a Sunday afternoon "quickie" with their
    8-year-old son in the apartment was to send him out on the balcony with
    a Popsicle and tell him to report on all the neighborhood activities...

    "There's a car being towed from the parking lot," he shouted.

    He began his commentary as his parents put their plan into operation:

    "An ambulance just drove by!"

    "Looks like the Anderson's have company," he called out.

    "Matt is riding a new bike!"

    "Looks like the Sanders are moving!"

    "Jason is on his skate board!"

    After a few moments he announced...

    "The Coopers are having sex!"

    Startled, his mother and dad shot up in bed.

    Dad cautiously called out...

    "How do you know they're having sex?"

    "Jimmy Cooper is standing on his balcony with a Popsicle."
    Henry
    29th Oct 2013
    4:28pm
    I honestly believe that we compare all "illegal" arrivals and "Muslims" as one big bad problem.
    We need to accept a share of some of those much less fortunate than us and assist them with English and some technical skills. After all they really want to work and this cannot be bad for our lovely country.
    I will have to admit that hidden amongst those are elements that all they want is to start given us problems, such bombing here, killing there. Could we say we admit most of them, except Muslims?
    surfer
    29th Oct 2013
    6:38pm
    Great Idea.
    jeneregretrien
    29th Oct 2013
    7:02pm
    Muslims and any other religion, come to that ,do not mix . Muslims are intolerant and do not recognise any religion, apart from Islam. Look at Sudan now split into two Countries. All the problems they are causing in many parts of Africa are a warning for the rest of the World. They are gradually taking over the European Continent and in the next 30 years it will most likely be an ISLAM STATE. Even in Russia they are trying to gain ground, but fortunately Putin is a clever and astute Leader and will not give too many concessions. Australia now has the opportunity to take real action against the influx of Muslims, under the guise of refugees. Without sounding biblical, Mr Abbott is our saviour.
    jackeroo
    5th Nov 2013
    7:21pm
    Fact sheet 98 applies to refugees who are brought into the country. nowhere does it talk about "Illegals". As I have said before, I live next door to a house funded by the Government and thanks to the stupidity of some of the staff in letting paoerwork blow into our house and elsewhere, I have a very good idea of facts. You want to be here when one of them rings home on his (Taxpayer funded) mobile at 2:00 am some8 metres from your bedroom window, and for some reason, they yell into their phones. I am also compassionate and think they should be assisted to go home. Illegal is illegal if you bypass the correct channels.
    Doggy Di
    30th Nov 2013
    9:41am
    I agree with Bill Shorten - apart from our indigenous people, we white, yellow, black and various shades in between who have, either this or generations past, come to this lovely land by boat, plane or whatever are migrants seeking refuge from the devastation of war or famine or lack of work opportunities or from political or religious persecution and as such we should be honest and well prepared to accept other human beings who find themselves in similar life-threatening situations.
    Diane Masland 4th generation "white" immigrant from England and Scotland AND i have 3 generations of Dinky Di Aussies off-spring.


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