18th Feb 2014
Asylum seekers riot and escape
Asylum seekers riot and escape

A second incident has occurred at the Manus Island detention centre. During the first incident on Sunday night 35 asylum seekers escaped from the centre after a violent clash with security staff.

Protests had been building during the day, but reports indicate that the unrest came to a head following a meeting on Sunday evening, in which asylum seekers were told by immigration officials that, if the asylum seekers were not found to be legitimate refugees, then Australia and Papua New Guinea would not help them find countries in which to resettle.

Following the meeting asylum seekers tried to shatter windows, and several bunk beds were broken to create weapons before 35 detainees left the compound via destroyed fences.

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison said on Monday during a press conference that all escapees had been “accounted for”, and that 19 asylum seekers had been treated for “non-life-threatening” injuries.

When asked if any asylum seeker on Manus Island had yet been found to be a refugee, he answered “Not yet, no”, which could explain the distress of the centre’s residents after the Sunday night briefing.

Of the incident, Mr Morrison said, “If you don’t want to be in immigration detention, don’t come illegally to Australia … It is impossible not to feel sorry for people who want a better life and are living in a horrible country and I guess it’s good they think Australia is a beacon. We are a beacon of decency and generosity but we cannot allow people to take advantage of our generosity in this way.”

After the events of Sunday night Labor immigration spokesperson Richard Marles said the Government need to ensure this kind of incident never happened again. “This is now the second serious incident which has occurred at the Manus Island detention facility since the Abbott Government came to power.”

His comments came just hours before another bout of violent riots took place at the centre last night. Asylum seekers have once again escaped from the centre, and Mr Morrison said in a statement this morning that the incident was more serious than Sunday’s violent protests.

Non-essential staff have been evacuated from the facility and the asylum seekers who escaped may still be missing. It is not yet known how many have escaped. “The extent and nature of the subsequent events and perimeter breaches is still being verified. However, I am advised that all staff have been accounted for, our service providers are in control of the centre and there has been no damage to critical infrastructure or accommodation at the centre,” explained Mr Morrison.

To find out more visit The Age website

 

Opinion: Rioting was inevitable

Last year the United Nations (UN) found that Australia was guilty of almost 150 violations of international law regarding its treatment of asylum seekers. Earlier this year the UN warned Australia that ‘boat push-backs’ may again breach international law. Twice in the space of six months we have been told that our treatment of asylum seekers is so abhorrent as to be illegal behaviour.

With this in mind I have difficulty agreeing with Mr Morrison’s statement that Australia is “a beacon of decency and generosity”.

Last night’s riot and subsequent break out was the third serious incident to occur at the Manus Island detention centre since September last year. The people in that detention centre are waiting for Australia’s Government to grant them entry into Australia, because they fear for their lives in their own countries. They wouldn’t riot and risk that chance unless the situation on Manus Island was truly desperate.

I find it difficult to believe that not a single person at the Manus Island detention centre is a legitimate refugee. And yet Mr Morrison stated that nobody had yet been given refugee status. To me that says either we are turning people away who deserve our help, or nobody is being processed at all.

If you were imprisoned for months, even years, on end, waiting in limbo on the whim of a government which has been less than welcoming, I imagine you’d be getting frustrated and desperate to the point of rioting too.

These riots at the Manus Island detention centre are a symptom of a much larger problem, one which we have brought on ourselves through our treatment of those asking for our help. I think that Australia has the potential to live up to Mr Morrison’s statement – we could be a beacon of decency and generosity. It’s in our culture and in our blood to help the little guy, to offer our support to those who can’t help themselves. But right now Australia isn’t displaying any of its better qualities, and those who need our help the most are suffering.

What do you think? Has the Government brought these riots on itself? Or is it doing the right thing by holding a hard line against letting asylum seekers into Australia?





    COMMENTS

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    Brissiegirl
    18th Feb 2014
    10:37am
    The government should hold the line; they were voted in to stop cashed-up people smuggler customers from forcing their way in. Australia has a generous immigration programme. Just because people can't make governments do what they want, doesn't mean they have a right to smash up their accommodation. Here's some pictures Labor didn't want us to see - poor, under-nourished country shoppers, for the last six years passing through several cultural, religiously compatible countries on their way to Centrelink Australia:

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2013/08/paul-murray-on-2ue-right-now-131332.html#tpe-action-posted-6a0177444b0c2e970d0192acb30eeb970d
    Pass the Ductape
    18th Feb 2014
    10:40am
    1....‘ 35 asylum seekers escaped from the centre after a violent clash with security staff.’

    2....’if the asylum seekers were not found to be legitimate refugees, then Australia and Papua New Guinea would not help them find countries in which to resettle‘.

    3...’ Following the meeting asylum seekers tried to shatter windows, and several bunk beds were broken to create weapons before 35 detainees left the compound via destroyed fences’.

    4... When asked if any asylum seeker on Manus Island had yet been found to be a refugee, Mr Morrison answered “Not yet, no”,

    5.... Mr Morrison also said, “If you don’t want to be in immigration detention, don’t come illegally to Australia … It is impossible not to feel sorry for people who want a better life and are living in a horrible country and I guess it’s good they think Australia is a beacon. We are a beacon of decency and generosity but we cannot allow people to take advantage of our generosity in this way.”

    6... “This is now the second serious incident which has occurred at the Manus Island detention facility’.


    What part of 'illegal immigration' do you not understand Rachel - and you also cast dispersions upon Australia's commitment of being a decent and generous country? In consideration as to what I believe Australia has come to mean to me - as an immigrant - I think you have a damn cheek to suggest otherwise!
    Rachel Tyler Jones
    19th Feb 2014
    3:34pm
    Hi Ductape,

    It is worth noting that according to both Australian and international law, asylum seekers are not illegal, nor can they be classed as illegal immigrants.

    "Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are neither engaging in illegal activity, nor are they immigrants

    The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents.

    The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal”, as they in fact have a right to enter Australia to seek asylum.

    In line with our obligations under the Convention, Australian law also permits unauthorised entry into Australia for the purposes of seeking asylum. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation."

    This excerpt from the SBS website explains the legalities of asylum seekers. You can read the full article here: http://www.sbs.com.au/goback/about/factsheets/4/are-asylum-seekers-who-arrive-by-boat-illegal-immigrants
    student
    20th Feb 2014
    2:37pm
    Oh Rachel, you can't put brains in statues. People may listen but they do not always hear and understand. Your comments are so very right. Sometimes it really hurts my heart to hear my fellow Australians being so cold and vicious to those who have endured such violence and terror and have attempted to flee for their life again facing terror and violence. THEN ... they nearly arrive in Australian waters and safety only to be tossed into worse conditions and terrors they fled. To use an old Australian colloquialism " The poor buggers, they don't have a snow-flakes chance in hell""

    I go to a warm bed every night. I am safe and secure. I wish others could be like me.

    Some of the posters have said what you said, and it's the same response ... silence : )It's very easy to twist the truth but the truth is not twisted.

    Personally I feel we not only have a legal obligation to refugees/asylum seekers but we also have a moral obligation too. Unfortunately there are Australian who have ice in their veins.
    Bella
    18th Feb 2014
    11:21am
    If they don't like the facilities provided for them, who are supposed to be escaping a war torn country, then they should ask to be returned. Surely the help provided must be better than where they are coming from. I think we provide far too much for refugees ,we should be looking after our own here first. I have heard, but cannot swear to it, that they get provided far better than our pensioners. This is wrong, most of the pensioners here have worked and paid tax all heir lives, . Why do they not go to Islamic countries for help. ? We would not go to an Arab nation if we were in similar situations I,m sure....and if we did, I could not imagine getting the VIP treatment they get here.
    biddi
    18th Feb 2014
    12:11pm
    Agreed, Bella.
    tia-maria
    18th Feb 2014
    5:24pm
    Bella, Love your momment..........they would never go to the Islamic or to an Arab country .............because they receive far too much from the Australia government............. and they know damm well how to play the game to their advantage...............regardless the damages they do to the home their been set up in with all the perks.............send them back home and star giving back to the seniors in our country.
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    10:15pm
    Put Itching Powder in their Undies !!
    VC
    18th Feb 2014
    11:21am
    There may be some genuine refugees amoung the group on Manus Island, but there are many economic refugees who employed people smugglers in order to enter out country illegally. They now break the law again by rioting. Are these the sort of people we should welcome to Australia? I think not. The bleeding heart brigade needs to stop bleating about cruelty and consider the dangers that these people are to our long term security.
    student
    20th Feb 2014
    2:41pm
    you say ....

    They now break the law again by rioting.

    PNG laws???

    As for our 'long term security.' I'm sure the Mad Monk is more of a danger to Australia by the way he, and his cabinet, treat Indonesia!!
    Gra
    25th Feb 2014
    9:28am
    Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, student's comments are so predictable. What's the bet at the last election they voted for the Greens. Here we have a prime example of a brainwashed uni student, thinks they know it all but really only know what has been drip fed them. Literally "drip" fed - information passed on by drips.
    Ballgameskeith
    18th Feb 2014
    11:27am
    "We are a beacon of decency and generosity " sorry Scott the comments so far are far from that
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    10:17pm
    Yes !! So give till You Bleed !!
    Aloysius
    18th Feb 2014
    11:42am
    People smugglers must be stopped. They make great profits from people for whom they have no consideration. A clear message that employing people smugglers will not lead to resettlement in Australia must be maintained.
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    10:20pm
    I agree ! And those Skunky People Smugglers don't pay any Income Tax either....
    carmencita
    18th Feb 2014
    12:07pm
    All the more reason not to extend assistance to 'boat people'. Australia has become a soft target of criminals (and these people are when they incite violence after being given hospitality when Australia has no obligation to do so). These people should have been left in the high seas to return where they come from. They enter our country illegally and demand what is not their right , given accommodation and food, when we have Australians who are deserving of assistance. Good on Morrison for being consistent and not succumbing to media and UN criticism. Australia is a sovereign country and no UN should dictate who should be allowed to settle in Australia.
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    6:07pm
    Clap Clap Clap CHEER !!!
    Rachel Tyler Jones
    19th Feb 2014
    3:42pm
    As above Carmencita,

    It is worth noting that according to both Australian and international law, asylum seekers are not illegal, nor can they be classed as illegal immigrants.

    "Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are neither engaging in illegal activity, nor are they immigrants

    The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents.

    The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal”, as they in fact have a right to enter Australia to seek asylum.

    In line with our obligations under the Convention, Australian law also permits unauthorised entry into Australia for the purposes of seeking asylum. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation."

    This excerpt from the SBS website explains the legalities of asylum seekers. You can read the full article here: http://www.sbs.com.au/goback/about/factsheets/4/are-asylum-seekers-who-arrive-by-boat-illegal-immigrants
    muzza
    18th Feb 2014
    12:07pm
    Imagine if they were our neighbour - every time they did not get what they wanted they may destroy yours or my property. Most have grown up with violence and it stays with them. Look after our own first.
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    10:30pm
    Arm everyone with Frying Pans !! ..Someone took the other things ??
    RoyW
    18th Feb 2014
    12:32pm
    "waiting in limbo on the whim of a government which has been less than welcoming,"

    Everyone seems to forget that these people are queue jumpers. What about the genuine refugees in camps around the world waiting for the spaces to come free so they can be admitted as "real refugees".
    student
    20th Feb 2014
    2:46pm
    Roy, they are NOT queue jumpers. They come to Australia as asylum seekers.
    Gra
    25th Feb 2014
    9:20am
    I agree 100% Roy, they are QUEUE JUMPERS. Genuine refugees are left huddled in refugee camps because governments like ours are too busy sorting out just who these people are who come to our shores illegally, whether it be by leaky boat, jammed into a shipping container or in the back of truck .

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's the beauty of living in Australia but wouldn't you think some people would get some life experience behind them before they try to tell others the way things should be done?

    18th Feb 2014
    12:33pm
    I agree with all the previous comments except ballgameskeith. Australia is not the first port of call, plenty of other places on the way, including muslim countries where these people could have claimed "asylum". Though at the rate of arrivals, this will be a muslim country soon. Those responsible for the riots and destruction need to be deported and with no access to appeal process using our law system which is also costing a fortune.
    EELS
    18th Feb 2014
    12:58pm
    For a start the ‘country shoppers’ were most likely arrivals under the previous government whose disgraceful dismantling of the policy that was working has caused this problem and has cost we taxpayers in excess of ten billion dollars. When Labor opened our borders there was one person on Manus Island in detention. Now there are in excess of one thousand.
    The rioting of the detainees is only frustration that they can’t get their own way and nothing else. If their actions are anything to go by when their every accommodation is provided for them one has to wonder what sort of citizens they will become and if something upsets them what violence will they resort to.
    As for the UN. Give me a break. We do not hear anything from them about conditions in Zimbabwe, North Korea and many other countries where their own citizens do not have basic human rights. No they only pick on Australia because we are a soft target. On the contrary we should be very proud of our record at welcoming migrants from all over the world who come in the front door.
    Mitch
    18th Feb 2014
    11:56pm
    Thank you for your very sensible comments, The UN should look in there own back yards and clean up before dictating to Australians.

    Yes we do have a great policy for the genuine refugees who wait patiently in the camps, because they have no other means (a genuine refugee) and these so called back door boat people should not go to manus island or anywhere else but sent straight back to wait, like every one else. Patiently. We still have the disabled and elderly here to care for, but do the Un give a toss about them???? no evidence of that yet.
    student
    20th Feb 2014
    2:54pm
    my bet would be that the rioting, personal harm (sewing lips together) etc could be due to mental illness caused/exacerbated by trauma. Maybe if the Government was more determined to process the asylum seekers rather than playing politics with human lives, we could all rest peacefully.
    Mitch
    25th Feb 2014
    10:20pm
    Thats great to blame the detention centre and our treatment of these people for their mental health. If they are mental damaged by the processes within their own countries, do we really want them here, sorry but I have a family member who suffers from a mental health issue due to medication and Epilepsy (something they don't tell parents, along with intellectual disabilities) and that is more than dangerous enough, I can only image the horrendous things that these people could come up with when in a bad way. I for one do not want that as well as the incredible costs involved in their care, when even our own do not get the assistance that they need. Maybe the time spent in processing these people is a totally necessary thing, just think one day this could be your family that is affected.
    micko
    18th Feb 2014
    1:20pm
    At one point would you have us stop boat people/illegal immigrants/asylum seekers coming to Australia Rachel? There are millions of these people worldwide. Do we allow them all into our country? To have an open door policy is plain ludicrous.
    wally
    18th Feb 2014
    1:53pm
    Has the Australian government brought on this sorry state of affairs of rioting (self proclaimed) refugees? Yes. Yes. and Yes. Rachel neglects to add that the Australian government in question was led by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd in 2007 and that he
    himself decided to open the flood gates to anyone who could (truthfully or not) claim to be fleeing from persecution. This caused the whole mess we have being acted out in the north.
    student
    20th Feb 2014
    3:02pm
    are you saying there were ni 'boat people' before Kevin Rudd became PM ?? I seem to remember riots and breakouts from Detention Centres in the middle of woop-woop (AND Fairfield)
    wally
    18th Feb 2014
    1:59pm
    Good on ya Kevin!
    KSS
    18th Feb 2014
    2:00pm
    I am not unsympathetic to refugees. There are thousands if not millions that have been processed and judged to be so in refugee camps round the world. These people are waiting for a country to take them. Why is Australia not taking more from there? They have lived for many years in conditions far worse than Manus Island. yet they wait peacefully.

    Those on Manus Island have not been processed. They have not been judged to be refugees whatever their claims. Saying it is so does not make it so. If we accept the route they took from their homelands was by air, they would have more than likely landed in Bangkok Thailand, KL Malaysia or Jakarta Indonesia (- all of them safer places than they left -) before making their way south . In each of these cities there is an Australian Embassy or High Commission. Given they would have travelled with documentation into these countries and been granted immigration access by those countries, why do they not make their way directly to the Australian authorities and apply for asylum? They would be protected, they would be safe, they would have valid documents (or forgeries?), they could be processed quickly and resettled in a timely manner. Or sent back.

    But no, they choose to continue south, destroy documentation, pay people smugglers and undertake a dangerous voyage in a decrepit boat on the open seas. Then after being rescued and transferred to Manus Island (or elsewhere), provided with a safe haven, medical treatment, food, shelter and clothing (however basic) they then riot because they don't get their own way quick enough.

    If they have broken any laws on Manus Island through their actions they should be prosecuted under the law of the land and punished according to Manus law. That would make them criminals and unable to gain access to Australia. On serving their sentences they should be sent 'home'.

    Article 2 of UNHR Conventions and Protocols state "refugee has duties to the country in which he finds himself, which require in particular that he conform to its laws and regulations as well as to measures taken for the maintenance of public order."

    Article 31 states "The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their
    illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming DIRECTLY from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence." -(my capital letters).

    These rioters on Manus Island have broken both articles.

    Australia, must not and should not be held to ransom buy an arrogant few who think rules and processes do not apply to them. Australia should be seen as strong but fair. Increase the intake from identifiable displaced persons from the established refugee camps, process applications made in the proper manner through the Embassies and High Commissions round the world and consider applications made in Australia - even at the immigration desk at ports and airports - that come with supporting documentation.
    KSS
    18th Feb 2014
    2:10pm
    But don't be dictated to by a violent minority.
    Gra
    25th Feb 2014
    9:39am
    Excellent comment KSS and I agree wholeheartedly. IF they are genuine refugees why didn't they approach the Australian Embassy and ask for asylum. Our government and anyone with a brain has a right to wonder why these people would rather risk their life in a leaky boat than going to an Australian embassy in their first port of call. We have every right to be suspicious of those who choose to do things illegally, destroy identification and then carry on in a lawless manner when things aren't being done to their satisfaction.
    EELS
    18th Feb 2014
    2:06pm
    Very well put KSS!
    Nan Norma
    18th Feb 2014
    10:01pm
    As always.
    Mitch
    19th Feb 2014
    12:01am
    Here Here 100 % well said
    Radish
    19th Feb 2014
    8:53am
    I also agree with the factual comments by KSS.

    One thing I would like to add; if I see SHY (Sarah Hanson Young) one more time I will screammmmm. She likened the detention camps to Gulags. The woman is nuts. She has not the slightest idea. A forced labor camp (you are joking SHY). Has she ever seen the TV footage showing the shocking conditions being endured by genuine refugees from Syria etc.
    Abby
    23rd Feb 2014
    9:16pm
    I missed it Radish
    Did SHE burst into tears again ??? I love those crocodile tears SHE can put on
    Paddles
    18th Feb 2014
    2:10pm
    Methinks Rachel could benefit from counselling on the subject of objective commentating!
    Tom Tank
    18th Feb 2014
    2:56pm
    Interesting that all contributions so far are anti-refugee. A simple fact to be considered and that is NO one can be considered illegal until their case has been considered and a determination made. A fundamental tenet of our system of justice is "innocent until proven guilty".
    Scott Morrison statement indicates that no one on Manus Island has had their case considered therefore they are NOT illegal.
    This term illegal is a term the current government uses to demonise all boat people. If we were processing them to determine their true status then Australia could be considered to be, what it used to be "a beacon of decency". The ones who are chancing their arm would be sent back and those who are genuine would be admitted to Australia.
    Whether we like it or not Australia's International reputation as a decent humane country has been damaged and this started back in 2001 with the Tampa. Interestingly many of those who were on the Tampa and refused entry to Australia in 2001 do in fact live here now.
    ozimarco
    18th Feb 2014
    3:15pm
    I am totally with you, Rachel. This period in our history will be viewed as shameful by future generations. Instead of helping desperate people looking for a better future, we are robbing them of all hope by locking them away with no prospect of a decent outcome for their children and families. The billions we spend on keeping them from our shores and locking them up could be used to assist them in becoming valuable participants in a thriving society.
    Unfortunately, too many Australians have given in to the fear-mongering of the Abbott government and Mr Morrison in particular. They are pretending to be Christians while practising the opposite of what Christ would have done. I am ashamed of what my government is doing and am ashamed to call myself an Australian while this sort of inhumane treatment of people is going on. We forget that "there, for by the grace of God, go I". We forget these people are mothers, fathers, children, brothers, sisters, uncles, etc. They want what everyone else wants: a roof over their heads, a job, the opportunity for their kids to go to school and better themselves. Surely, as a comparatively rich country, we can do better than to condemn people to years in a detention camp or so-called life in a hell hole.

    By the way, if I was in the situation these desperate people are in, I would not just take it, either. Death is better than the existence Australia is offering them. How would every one of you feel if you had close relatives stuck on Manus Island with no prospect of ever being able to help them. Just think about that for a minute. They are not 'others', they are just ordinary folks like you and I.
    Mitch
    19th Feb 2014
    12:09am
    If I were in there place I would not bite of the arm that fed me, and I would certainly not resort to throwing what can only be aquated to as a tantrum to get what I wanted, and you forget that these so called children have been taught nothing but violence and hatred and intolerance towards anyone other than those who hold the same as there own religious believes. They are taught death from a very early age and women have no rights at all. If I were in their shoes, I would show gratitude for a safe place no matter how long it took.
    Dirk
    18th Feb 2014
    3:34pm
    Rachel, I disagree with your comment "treatment of those asking for our help". These boat people are not asking, they are demanding! Those who are asking sit for years in camps and wait till their cases have been assessed, which now takes a lot longer, as our authorities have also to deal with those not prepared to wait. Australia (both governments) has taken the pledge to settle a number of international refugees waiting in those camps abroad and they MUST have priority.
    MAC22
    18th Feb 2014
    4:25pm
    I am feeling I no longer wish to be checking into this page in future. I personally do not have the $10,000 (supposedly charged by smugglers) to get to another country, and I am blessed to live here.
    I wonder just how many of these people are genuine refugees, when they can afford this kind of money? They know from the first that they cannot enter our, OUR country without the relevant papers and approval to live here. This is a mandatory process that all countries have in place, as there are only so many peoples in various countries who have fought for their own countries, and support their economy.
    I feel for these people, if they are genuine refugees, but they are not!!!!!!
    That is all I have to say......and I wish Life Choices would change to much more positive articles for comment. MAC22
    sybilla
    18th Feb 2014
    5:41pm
    In 1949 my husband and his then wife were shipped as refugees to Australia. Conditions were abominable. Women and men in separate dormitories on the ships that carried them; when married couple sought a little 'togetherness' there were only the life-boats! On arrival living conditions in camps were appalling, compared to today's relative comfort - yet these people were indeed grateful for the little they did receive. They too were unable to work, but there were no riots in those camps - today's refugee camps are comfortable and well-serviced by comparison.Our post war migrants delighted in their new found political freedom, and to have left the hell that was post-war Europe.I feel sympathy for all asylum seekers,but let's put this in perspective.
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    6:03pm
    Well said Questa.. But You were an Invited Guest and Times were tough then, Don't forget, Australia Too was Recovering from the War !!.Bread and Dripping !!.Not treacle Pudding and Ice Cream like those Space Invaders !!!..One lump or two Sir ??.
    Would you like Me to warm Your Bed Sir ??..
    moorlands
    18th Feb 2014
    6:04pm
    The problem has been caused by US interests to control the worlds oil. Some of the "Strong Men " that where installed by those interests ( IE: Hussein etc ) did not keep their end of the bargain but instead kept the wealth that belonged to their people whilst ruthlessly containing factions to achieve this end, so they had to go, result world carnage as the wealthy fled and the poor were left to build up countries that had been bombed to the stone age, this and only this is the cause of our illegal entries,
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    6:13pm
    Our Pension got Bombed to the Stone Age by Howard !! But I didn't Head for China !!!
    particolor
    20th Feb 2014
    3:25pm
    PS.. And I'm waiting for the same from The Budgie Smuggler !!...
    Penqueen1949
    18th Feb 2014
    6:28pm
    Rachel Tyler Jones did it ever occur to you that many ADF personnel were accommodated in worse situations when in the Middle East than these so called 'asylum seekers'? I think not......
    moke
    18th Feb 2014
    7:17pm
    Why should we keep Asylum seekers locked, build villages like I came to out in the bush teach them how to farm, learn English, live we do and become Australians, if they want to be like they were in the countries they left them send them home. We want overseas people like we use to have. Greeks Italians, Yugoslavs, Maltese, Germans, you name it they came here and learnt the Australian way of life and generally lived a good life.
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    7:23pm
    Moke...I Agree !!
    mudGecko
    18th Feb 2014
    7:39pm
    Who voted to let the UN run our country?? Obviously the inner-city media is prepared to accept this collection of foreign bureaucrats commanding us; the vast majority of Australians, never consulted about this national surrender, are not as gullible as the foolish, trendy leftists would like. We should not pander to criminals and liars.
    George F.
    18th Feb 2014
    7:46pm
    Saw the headline and I knew Rachel would be spinning it into an anti government article, with a vain attempt to place a veneer of balance on the piece. What gives with the owners of this site , when they could be trying to build it into the Oz equivalent of the giant Saga site in UK they employ committed left leaning activists with no impulse control, determined irritate a huge percentage of the subscribers, Perhaps we can have a competition where subscribers nominate a subject they believe Rachel can not spin against the government and Abbott. Then again perhaps the firings reflect the site owners political leanings , in which case it will fail in the end, I only still read it for the scathing comments following every Rachel article more complex than a recipe, Nice to know that the ABC and the main commercial channels can not brainwash commonsense out of a large part population.
    Gra
    25th Feb 2014
    9:48am
    I agree George. As a site aimed at the seniors in our country, why on earth do we have to put up with the anti government drivel from someone barely old enough to vote? Get rid of these young radicals and employ someone with a bit of experience and most of all, someone who knows what they are on about.
    George F.
    18th Feb 2014
    7:58pm
    Keep up the good work commentators, I just cut and pasted your comments to one of the advertisers , expressing my surprise they would fund such irritation. Some of you may like to do the same .
    moorlands
    19th Feb 2014
    11:36am
    George, that would just prove to the advertisers that their advert is being seen , which is what they are paying for.
    alfie
    18th Feb 2014
    8:30pm
    Refugees that cause violence and damages to our property must be returned to where they came from immediately to show action and let them fight for their own country instead of our boys dying for them when they are quite capable to do so. Capable men refugees should be trained in the army for 6 months and then sent back to their country to fight alongside our own soldiers. We want decent refugees to come and live here and certainly not those who cause trouble... decent refugees are law abiding and would use the proper way to come here. Relatives living in australia who use boat smugglers to bring their relatives here must be prosecuted by law because they are contributing to a man slaughter charge if their relative drowns at sea.
    particolor
    18th Feb 2014
    10:12pm
    That wont happen !!
    Mitch
    18th Feb 2014
    11:48pm
    Why do people automatically assume that these people who tried to enter Australia through the back door are genuine refugees, They have enough money to buy there way half way across the world, to be in a position in Indonesia, where they can pay for passage to come to Australia illegally. Why are we not allowed to protect our borders the same way other countries have the right to.

    If they have any money then they are not genuine refugees, but people with a desperate past, trying to run away from the consequences of their actions, and the mere fact that they are prepared to use violence to get what they demand.... Speaks volumes to the Australian public. The Australian public are not dumb, we understand that these people are trying to enter our country illegally, we have a great immigration system and a fair one, and there is not one person in Australia who doesn't have a family member, past or present who hasn't immigrated here, indigenous or not we are all from immigrants in one way or enough. Yet we have a wonderfully tolerant and caring community, unique to this world. We do care for genuine refugees, they are the ones sitting in the camps, waiting patiently, as they have no means of getting anywhere without our assistance. These so called boat people are not genuine and to allow them into Australia after this blatant and disrespectful display, and behaving in such a demanding manner should only be met with a firm ticket on a plane back to where they came from. Give a pass to someone in a refugee camp, not these imposters.

    If these were real refugees, they would be grateful for a roof, food and the safety. Throw these trouble makers out now, before they come in any further, once they get a foot in, you will not get rid of them and then watch out for the troubles. We do not want violent offenders in Australia and that is what the are showing there natures to be. No refugee trying to escape violence would behave in this manner, there should be no question---OUT THEY GO, no more time waiting---OUT.

    My political views do not come into this argument, but my desire for the safety of my families future does..we currently have the rights to vote, follow whatever religion we choose, not to judge on race, colour or sexuallity or choice but if we let some of these dangerous people in, then that could and probably will change very quickly.
    Selmar52
    18th Feb 2014
    11:58pm
    I agree Totally Well Said
    particolor
    19th Feb 2014
    5:08am
    "Ve Haf Vays Off Getting in Schmart !!"
    Irishwolfhound
    19th Feb 2014
    1:47am
    Just because someone is asking for help does not mean that they warrant receiving it! There are many more needy people in the world , refugees , that need help much more than Afghani men, and Pakistani men who come here in a boat illegally. I fully agree with accepting refugees, but only those who ARE REAL REFUGEES. Not people who have enough money to pay their fare here. They are obviously not 'needy" people. Stop putting the hard word on Australian citizens, they we are not doing enough for 'refugees' . We will be able to do much more if the 'bad eggs' are sorted out and returned to their country of origin. If you riot when you are in a safe place, then you are no "refugee", you are an economic boat person !
    Irishwolfhound
    19th Feb 2014
    1:48am
    Looks like the "NO'S" have the vote !!!
    particolor
    19th Feb 2014
    5:14am
    "Fur Sure ! Fur Sure!! Wolfy"
    Richard
    19th Feb 2014
    11:08am
    You know Rachel, I a sick to death with self righteous comments by those who refuse to look objectively at this problem. Are you blind to the problems Europe is now facing because of this do gooder attitude.
    Un checked immigration is irresponsible and unsustainable.
    It could be rightly said that a thief is excused if he is trying to make "a better life for himself".
    Richard
    EELS
    19th Feb 2014
    11:19am
    Well Rachel, I think you have a resounding answer to the question in the last line of your article.
    GH
    19th Feb 2014
    1:11pm
    Thank you Rachel for a balanced and thought provoking article. By any standard this is an awful human tragedy. These are real people and it refreshing to read intelligent comment by a fellow Australian who is compassionate and informed. A lot of hard work is put into this excellent website. It deserves to be affirmed and appreciated. Keep up the good work and continue to be a voice for those who have no voice, abducted, imprisoned for no crime and without hope of justice or a life. As for your detractors - well, what can you say?
    micko
    19th Feb 2014
    1:32pm
    What are you talking about Olderwiser? "An awful human tragedy" brought about by themselves !!! Have you not listened to a word the "detractors" are conveying? Australians are compassionate and informed but we also have a sense of justice for genuine refugees, those families obeying the rules and trying to get here legitimately, not queue jumping rioting men with a sense of entitlement.
    moke
    19th Feb 2014
    3:11pm
    Olderwiser What would be your attitude if we ceased to send our money over seas to help out and used it at home for just as needy people. We send money overseas and then take the rabble rousers in and give them the lot. Come on Fair is Fair either the illegals or the money overseas but not both. Being older and wiser do we presume you are no longer a tax payer, I think the Tax paying Australians would rather see the money spent at home.
    Rachel Tyler Jones
    19th Feb 2014
    3:57pm
    Thank you for your thoughtful comment Olderwiser. I look forward to reading your views on some of our other articles.
    particolor
    19th Feb 2014
    4:57pm
    Ya know what ? I just Had a Brainwave !! I know what Happens now !! We send their government the Aid Money and they Round up their Rif Raf from The Prisons Etc and Pay the Body Smugglers !! Yep !! They sing Tour Ali Oorali Attaday ..And their bound for Aussie land ..Problem Solved !! ..
    Aloysius
    19th Feb 2014
    10:39pm
    Support for arrival via people smugglers is support for criminal activity by people smugglers. I am astounded that my comment to this effect has been removed and replaced by Rachel's praise for the activity.
    Carol
    19th Feb 2014
    4:14pm
    Like a lot of the comments why do these 'asylum seekers' pass through so many safe countries with more compatible cultural and religious qualities to come here. They just want to bludge, receiving housing, education medical treatment, welfare etc etc. Australians must have mug written on their brows.

    How many thousands do the do gooders want to come in and are they going to pay to keep them?
    geomac
    19th Feb 2014
    4:39pm
    Well was there a riot or an incursion by PNG forces ? It was only a few months ago staff were evacuated because of a battle between police and military PNG forces at the same location .
    particolor
    19th Feb 2014
    5:02pm
    Goemac The Fuzzy Wuzzys Enjoy a Good Stouch now and again ..Leave them alone Its their Tradition .. OUCH !! I just got hit in back of the head by a Blow Gun Dart !!!
    41Alpha
    19th Feb 2014
    9:22pm
    Unfortunately Australia was too soft under the previous Labor government and in doing so, basically gave the 'green light' for so called asylum seekers to pour in to Australia in their hundreds.
    It would appear that Labor was under the impression, that if you did nothing the problem may go away.

    The united nations appears to cause more problems than it solves and the West is paying for it.
    One of the biggest blunders caused by the UN was to assist Robert Mugabe ( aided by China) to come to power. In doing so, a safe, wealthy country ( Rhodesia) was transformed to Zimbabwe, with an unemployment rate of 75% and a worthless currency. Over 2 million people have fled the country into neighbouring South Africa, Zambia, Malawi etc.
    Ooops yet another UN blunder.
    Fred
    19th Feb 2014
    10:44pm
    What is overlooked is that these people are in Indonesia and would have overstayed their visa conditions. They are leaving Indonesia illegally by not going through Emigration and are therefore the responsibility of Indonesia.

    I heard an interview on the ABC recently by one of the Tampa pirates who has been here for years and never worked. As a pensioner i pay tax on my pension. Please tell me why i should support these spongers.
    geomac
    19th Feb 2014
    11:28pm
    Are you talking about GST in regard to tax on your pension ? Do you recall the ABC program Fred because as a pensioner I have the time to check it out ?
    Now to my mind a pirate on the high seas boards another vessel and takes over the boat and its occupants . Guess that situation applies to our navy . High seas , board a vessel and taking over control of people on board with weapons . Any argument Fred ?
    particolor
    20th Feb 2014
    8:59am
    AAAR!! ME HEARTIES !!!
    wally
    20th Feb 2014
    5:43pm
    Hi student. I do not know whether or not you aware that there were self proclaimed asylum seekers trying to get into Australia during John Howard's tenure as Prime Minister. John Howard said that the Australian government would decide who came to Australia (not people smugglers) and introduced temporary protection visas and started putting these people in camps on Nauru. When it became obvious that that John Howard meant business, the flood of boat people ground to a halt.
    Fast forward to 2014. It has been reported that around 50,000 boat people (minus those 1000 or so that drowned) have tried it on since 2007. That is almost as many people at the number of Australians that died in World War I.
    Brilliant work, Kevin.
    Can you tell me how many boat people entered Australia when John Howard was Prime Minister?
    It amazes me that our trendy lefties can get so upset about some rioting Gate crashers getting beaten up (with one killed by PNG officers) and not even mention or express concern about Australian farmers committing suicide in despair of their situation (Caused by nature and not by their own actions as is the case of the "asylum seekers"). The farmers' efforts are to benefit Australia through food production. The Asylum seekers seek only to benefit themselves.
    Sara Hanson Young and her ilk need to get their priorities straightened out.
    geomac
    20th Feb 2014
    6:44pm
    So asylum seekers are now connected to farmers suicides eh Wally ? Strange enough I have never made the connection myself . So to comment on one topic one must extend their thoughts to another subject that has no relevance or connection to the original topic ?
    Now to answer your question 13,663 boat arrivals under Howard .
    You can add them up yourself .
    http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1314/BoatArrivals

    Wally seeing as you raised it do you remember the SIEV-X ? Over 300 deaths and you guessed it , under Howards watch . Of course you meant to mention that and you could have answered your own question regarding arrivals . Thing is Wally , you did neither .
    particolor
    20th Feb 2014
    7:05pm
    Geomac..Back in the 60's The libs favourite dance was The Twist !!..Nothings Changed !!
    wally
    20th Feb 2014
    9:29pm
    Hi geomac. As usual, we all get tangled up in statistics and comparisons. Howard was PM for 11 years. If 13,663 asylum seekers arrived during his "watch" we must note that under a six year period of Labor government, around 50,000 asylum seekers arrived. Arrival is one thing. I think the relevant point of comparison is this: what percentage of the illegal asylum seekers/ boat people were settled in Australia during the Howard years? What is the percentage of the boat people arrivals to settled in Australia during the Labor years of 2007-2013?. We can kick numbers and totals around until Hell freezes over, but we need to look at the number of boat people settled in Australia under both administrations to see how the different approaches of LNP and Labor worked and see what the result turned out to be. My comments about farmer suicides and the death and injuries meted out to rioters at Manus Island point out the indifference of the Greens and to a lesser extent, Labor, to the plight of the farmers. These unfortunates are victims of the vagaries of the weather cycle and governmental indifference in both state and federal government. To ignore these suicides whilst screaming from the rooftops over the treatment of the rioters who brought on their own predicament through illegally trying to gate crash their way into Australia and then resorting to arson and violence in an effort to get their way, reflects poorly on the Greens and their leftist supporters. Promoting the interests of people who represent an unproductive drain on Australian society and ignoring the plight of drought stricken farmers trying to earn their living in difficult circumstances has the potential to erode the fabric of Australian society,
    particolor
    20th Feb 2014
    9:34pm
    That was Good !! Thanks for saying nothing ??
    geomac
    20th Feb 2014
    10:21pm
    Wally I have done your homework once and thats sufficient don,t you think ? More questions , do your own research . who is screaming from the rooftops Wally ? In my posts have I said anything about the treatment of asylum seekers ? I have questioned the veracity of some comments and asked what is the definition of a pirate . I am not aware if I know a green type person as I do not ask people their political stripe . Do you know any Wally ?
    Now as regards farmers I have known a few mainly dairy . The fact of life for a farmer is the vagaries of weather and long days . One of our most noted poems is about droughts and sweeping plains ie I love a sunburnt country . I like the western bulldogs and support them by buying a membership each year despite not going to Melb to watch the games . On your logic I should support some down and out soccer team or rugby club and not scream at the tv when the doggies are playing .
    moorlands
    21st Feb 2014
    8:26pm
    Yes particolor it was saying nothing, it ignored the US backed invasion of oil rich countries by "Invasion of the willing of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan"etc which was the reason those who could afford to flee from their homelands that had been bombed back to the stone age, leaving behind the lesser fortunates to watch their countries wealth being stolen. Farmers? Don't get me started! they keep it when times are good, but expect handouts when times are bad! a small farm would be 250,000 hectares, @ $10,000 per hectare, my calculator says $25,000,000 , that's 25 million, I have a reverse mortgage on my home to exist without handouts from the taxpayer.
    moorlands
    21st Feb 2014
    11:09pm
    Just like to add that my kids accept that if at the end there is nothing left hard luck. Farmers want you and me the taxpayers to hand it on to their kids.
    Richard
    21st Feb 2014
    1:48pm
    I note with some amusement that Rachel only responded to a comment supporting her position!
    Not even a grudging acceptance of the fact that the vast majority of respondents had contrary views.
    This of course is typical of blinkered pro "release the floodgates" support groups.
    The boat people at the very best are queue jumpers.
    Richard
    geomac
    21st Feb 2014
    2:17pm
    Lobby groups are queue jumpers and so are pork barrelling politicians . Miners getting fuel subsidies are queue jumpers while the mug punter pays full price and actually pays full tax on income .
    You are less than generous in your at the very best comment . I could equally say at the very worst boat people are queue jumpers . As all people of a group have different circumstances or people of a nation the same your broad brush comment is worthless .
    All people called Richard make worthless comments ? Patently ridiculous and based on nothing but a possible lame observation without proper judgement .
    particolor
    21st Feb 2014
    3:56pm
    Geomac and Richard ..You will both be Knighted at the next ceremony !! You will wait in the Lobby together with Frying Pans !!
    wally
    21st Feb 2014
    11:31pm
    Hi geomac. I must thank you for supplying information about the total number of boat people that arrived and hoped to be admitted to Australia during the Howard years. If your total of 13,663 arrivals is spread over the eleven years of Howard's prime ministership, that works out to be 1,242 arrivals per year, or about 100 arrivals per month. I realize that this is a rather gross generalization that does not recognize peak years or troughs in arrivals but I feel that it will do.
    I remember that Kevin Rudd and his fellow Labor parliamentarians decried the financial waste involved in keeping a detention facility operating on Nauru where only one person was incarcerated. So upon election, Kevin closed the Nauru facility amongst much hoo ha about saving the Aussie taxpayers the expense of keeping the facility open. Then,Kevin revoked the temporary protection visa program the Howard put in place.
    Then the boat people came in their thousands. Roughly 50,000 arrived in the six years of the Rudd Gillard Rudd ALP government. Dividing the 50,000 boat people by six (which represents the two 3 year terms of ALP prime ministerial rule) One arrives at about 8,333 arrivals per year on average. That is more than 7000 arrivals (in a yearly average) than the arrivals of the Howard years. So Kevin Rudd's efforts to save the little Aussie taxpayer the expense of keeping the Nauru facility open was swallowed up and forgotten in the deluge of boat people. The expense of looking after these people and their needs has been to the detriment of other programs where money should have been spent to benefit the Australian people, not interlopers arriving by boat. So the question arises. Why did Kevin Rudd NOT institute policies and programs to stem the flood? That is the question that we would like him to answer. As things stand, I feel that Howard left Australia in better shape in 2007 than Rudd and Labor did in 2013.
    Now geomac, in your post of 20 Feb (the 10:21 pm one) after your second sentence you appear to lost the plot. I am glad that you know dairy farmers and support footy teams and do not know any greenies. Whoopie-dooo!!! I fail to see any relevance these remarks have to anything.
    But thank you for your statistical contribution. It helps define the difference in approaches as exemplified by John Howard and his Labor successors to the boat people problem.
    particolor
    22nd Feb 2014
    9:38am
    ..More Ponzi Statistics needed !! Thank You....
    geomac
    22nd Feb 2014
    1:36pm
    Wally
    Thanks for your reply and efforts to explain your praise of Howard . I found one bit odd though unrelated to figures .
    " Now geomac, in your post of 20 Feb (the 10:21 pm one) after your second sentence you appear to lost the plot. I am glad that you know dairy farmers and support footy teams and do not know any greenies. Whoopie-dooo!!! I fail to see any relevance these remarks have to anything. "
    Wally you raised Greenies and farmers and I merely wondered what that had to do with the topic at hand . I responded to you talking about things that had no relevance and here I find you accusing me of your very own action .
    moorlands
    22nd Feb 2014
    5:07pm
    Wally, can I just give you a bit of advice, when I pick up the Australian I read the first few lines then cast it aside, likewise with your contributions to this forum, if you or anyone on these forums can not offer opinions other than those that are based on your " Football team mentalities " then I suggest you have no comment to offer.
    Nightshade
    22nd Feb 2014
    3:16pm
    WHY DID THE DEFENSE FORCES NOT JUST SINK THE BOATS AS THE ENTERED AUSTRALIAN WATERS -
    WHAT THE F- - - IS WRONG WITH THESE SHIT FOR BRAINS - GUTLESS - PUSSIES - WE CALL THE DEFENSE FORCES OF AUSTRALIA - MAYBE WE SHOULD GO OUT & HELP THEM POP THEIR SORRY LOOSER ARSES OFF AS THE COME IN !
    geomac
    22nd Feb 2014
    4:41pm
    Interesting comment .
    On that logic why not Indonesian forces firing on Australian boats when trespassing into Indonesians waters without authority , 6 times ? Of course you neglect to mention detaining boats in international waters and boarding them . It used to be called piracy .
    So Nightshade you advocate our Navy with its proud history should commit crimes like murder against unarmed vessels . It would appear you would rather sully our Navy and its reputation to satisfy some , some ? Whatever your desire is its not you who has to sleep with nightmares , depression or demons from orders from above . It certainly would not be you issuing the orders or carrying out the murder .
    When did we become some tinpot 3rd world country ?
    particolor
    22nd Feb 2014
    4:59pm
    SHEEESH !!! I think Nightshade Just Guzzled 6 pints of Wild Turkey Bourbon ????..
    and geomac...Our Ships would go anywhere near their waters if they Didn't assist The Pirates of The Caribbean to get to Australia !!
    particolor
    22nd Feb 2014
    5:06pm
    PS.. wouldn't go !! .. But its Ok for Their Boats to come into Our Waters and cut the Rudders off Sharks for Soup ???...
    moorlands
    22nd Feb 2014
    5:55pm
    No particolor, do not ridicule Nightshade, I think Abbot will be looking for new blood for his front bench.
    particolor
    22nd Feb 2014
    6:14pm
    I know people that are that Boring they have fallen Asleep on themselves !!
    moorlands
    22nd Feb 2014
    6:17pm
    Different subject, I don't read the Australian other than the cartoons and "Strewth " I am still chuckling on Strewths comment that our new Governor General was flying to London in BUSINESS CLASS, who is he kidding? when was the last time that any Australian politician and family purchased an airline ticket on Qantas (even economy) without being immediately upgraded to First or Business class.
    particolor
    22nd Feb 2014
    7:16pm
    Moorlands.. Back on Subject !! Do Asylum Luggers have Business Class ??
    moorlands
    22nd Feb 2014
    9:43pm
    Not sure particolor, but $10,000 per person from wherever to Indonesia then on to Christmas Island sounds pricey to me? My point was to stop looking under your bed for corruption and opportunism by greedy people, it is staring you in the face.
    particolor
    22nd Feb 2014
    9:56pm
    OH ! Don't worry I see it everywhere now !!... 10 Grand would be the Life Savings of a Penny Pincher Here ??.... I wonder if the Body Smugglers showed them an Australian Power Bill before they Embarked ??? He He He !!!...
    moorlands
    22nd Feb 2014
    10:36pm
    Or a cycling trip by Abbott?
    particolor
    23rd Feb 2014
    12:13am
    That reminds Me !! I meant to ask ! How much is a pair of Red Speedo's now ??.
    geomac
    23rd Feb 2014
    12:12am
    In an extraordinary statement issued late last night, Mr Morrison admitted that much of the information he had given to the Australian public since Monday’s riot was now in doubt.

    The most explosive admission is the revelation that most of the violence probably took place within the detention centre's fences, rather than outside its boundaries, as Mr Morrison had previously claimed.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/scott-morrison-admits--information-he-gave-on-manus-riot-was-wrong-20140222-339hs.html#ixzz2u3XiTrZI
    wally
    23rd Feb 2014
    12:39pm
    in my post of 20 Feb I comment that I wonder why the Green's senator Sara Hanson Young shows more concern for the welfare of Manus Island asylum seekers than she does for Aussie farmers committing suicide. I do know Green Party supporters and disagree with their views. Geomac says he does not know any Greenies and is incapable of reading more than a few lines of the Australian newspaper. Geomac does not go into the reason for this inability. ( No symptoms of serious mental, literacy or vision health issues, I hope.) Had geomac continued reading the Australian, the identity of Sara Hanson Young would be revealed.
    On another note, mention of the plight of farmers also stirred up comments about whingeing farmers always crying poor and having their hands out for more money from the taxpayers.. Geomac claims to know dairy farmers in, I presume, Gippsland in Victoria where conditions are usually blessed with rainfall as opposed to Queensland and western NSW. Moorlands has an unsympathetic view to the farmers' predicament but should also be aware that if we were to substitute the word pensioner of the word farmer, would moorlands still hold the view of whingers whining for more money? Particolor's comments contribute nothing to the debate, The shortness of the posts reflect either a failure to grasp the issues or an inability to concentrate thoughts longer than tweets that belong in the twittersphere.
    geomac
    23rd Feb 2014
    1:16pm
    Wally
    I said I am not aware of knowing any greens personally hence the comment I do not ask people their political leanings . The Australian has little to offer and certainly is not worth paying a sub for . The Australian was a loss maker before paper media collapsed and must be a stone around the neck of the rest of the Murdoch papers . Fairfax for reasons unknown has risen on the stock market and is double what it was last year . The fat lady ( guess who ) does not get to sing yet .
    Gippsland Wally , good people and land of smoky days and tar smell in the morning courtesy of foreign mine owners . 2nd fire in 6 ? years that goes along with Yallourn mine flooding a year ago after river diversion gone wrong . Yes , we are truly blessed in Gippsland Wally . All the way from Mallacoota to Leongatha .
    particolor
    23rd Feb 2014
    1:18pm
    Find Wally
    moorlands
    24th Feb 2014
    11:19am
    Strange comparison wally, Pensioners, who have worked and paid their taxs and now exist on approx $28 per day, and Farmers who even when they get record harvests still hold out their hands for more, I DO know of one who had to cancel his Land Cruiser order this year because he could'nt claim enough of the cost of it against his tax which meant he had to pay for some of it himself, and he has'nt had a European holiday for ages, my heart bleeds for him.
    wally
    24th Feb 2014
    2:18pm
    Hi moorlands. We should remember that we should not fall into the trap of using individual extreme examples to tar everyone with the same brush. For example, I do not think all Labor politicians are guilty of rorting their credit cards, even though Craig Thompson was found guilty of doing so. Likewise, I do not think your farmer example (of missing out on a new 4wd) is typical of farmers. Especially not the ones in the parts of Australia that are in drought. I also doubt that your farmer example suicided.
    As far as pensioners struggling to get by on $28 per day, the quarterly magazine thatCentrelink sends out puts the single age pension at over $800 per fortnight. This is 2014, not 1974. Or else somebody is having a lend of you.
    geomac
    24th Feb 2014
    3:16pm
    Wally
    I agree with you about extreme examples . Abbott booked the taxpayer for a fun run while Oakshott did not . Reith illegally cost the taxpayer 50 grand over the phone PIN but paid back after getting caught out . Now I would be confident the the vast majority of federal politicians would never do that just a very few . Slipper is charged with a dodgy 900 bucks yet Reith had no charge to face , curious is it not ?
    That 28 bucks sounds like Newstart more than the full pension . Maybe its after rent or whatever .
    moorlands
    24th Feb 2014
    5:56pm
    Yes I stand corrected after researching the facts, the $28 figure I quoted came from an old fellow at the bowls club who was crying poor, (No he wasn't a Farmer) maybe it WAS after rent etc, I bought him a couple of drinks anyway, as a self funded retiree I do not receive any info from Centrelink. I have to restate my opinion that Abbott in what he knows will be his only chance, is desperate to return us to the Howard years and even further, so that when he and his military appointments are thrown out by an alternative government (Not necessarily Labour as I think they have done their dash) but by democratic people with principle, then those people will need thirty years to undo the damage.
    Gra
    25th Feb 2014
    8:47am
    This is right, we did bring this upon ourselves. These asylum seekers should not have been sent to Manus Island - or any other detention centre for that matter. As soon as the government determined there were enough for a full load on one of the army transport planes, they should have been shipped back to where they came from. We have seen these people getting off their boats, they aren't political refugees, they are simply economic refugees, coming here with plenty of cash and wanting to avail themselves of Australia's all too generous welfare system.
    Gra
    25th Feb 2014
    9:08am
    Bleeding hearts make me sick. Compare those illegal immigrants held on Manus Island to this one person.
    Fully qualified accountant Joe Brown leaves his home in country New South Wales on a six month holiday visa to the USA. At the end of the six months Joe feels he is having such a great time he doesn't want to go home. He would rather stay and work in a nice little town he happened upon during his travels. The US department of immigration realize Joe hasn't departed their shores and go looking for him. When Joe is located, he is charged with being in the US illegally and locked up. There is no question of bail, Joe is put in gaol until he can be put on a plane back to Australia. There is no opportunity of extending his visa - nothing he can do in the hope of remaining in the US.

    Why should people who display violent tendencies such as these rioters be given better treatment than our Joe?
    moorlands
    25th Feb 2014
    11:38am
    Gra, that scenario is played out in countries all over the world including Australia, and rightly so. But the illegals on Manus Island have no Passports, no Visas, no ID at all, so where do you fly them to? They don't want to live in Indonesia and Indonesia doesn't want them. Their recent behavior shows what we could expect if they were granted residence in Australia, remember the Sydney riots?
    moorlands
    25th Feb 2014
    6:15pm
    Just as an aside, Australian Police have just frozen bank accounts of Russian Tourists worth millions of dollars, whilst the Russians declared their employment as not justifying that kind of money, likewise those on Manus Island have paid thousands to get to Australia, figures that would only be a dream to the majority of Australians, and in their country of origin would be unimaginable. Now would these people be content settling into wage earning Australians?


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