Backflip or good governance?

The Government will discuss if it will provide a debt guarantee for Qantas.

Following on from Thursday’s announcement by Qantas that it will shed 5000 jobs on the back of a $252m loss, today the Federal Government will discuss whether to provide a debt guarantee for the national carrier.

Qantas has asked for a Government debt guarantee to secure the future of the airline as the national carrier, however, such a guarantee would not prevent the job cuts already announced.

After union officials met with Qantas management on Friday, they said that the company had plucked the number of jobs to be lost “out of the air”, reporting that the CEO, Alan Joyce, couldn’t table from where the retrenchments would come. Labor has vowed to block any move to shift Qantas maintenance operation outside Australia and will also attempt to veto any majority foreign ownership. Prime Minister Tony Abbott strongly supports changes to the Qantas Sale Act to allow greater foreign investment, however Alan Joyce has said this will not help the airline in the short term.

While the Treasurer Joe Hockey had hinted in recent weeks that the Government would be open to supporting the move, Mr Abbott has all but decided this will not be he case, making it known via his comments during Thursday’s question time. Transport Minister Warren Truss has gone one step further, telling the Weekend Australian, “I’ve always considered that government intervention is an absolute last resort, an absolute last resort. I think Qantas is quite a long way away from being at a critical point; it has still got a debt rating two points higher than Virgin’s.”

Virgin Australia’s chief executive John Borghetti warned that a debt guarantee was counter to free enterprise and a free market. Mr Borghetti, who announced a loss of $83.7 million for Virgin last week, said the best assistance the industry could be given was the removal of the carbon tax, which he said, “has cost the industry hundreds of millions of dollars and to that end may I just say we applaud the government’s position on this”.

Read more at The Australian

Opinion: Stand on your own two feet

That an international airline is looking to the Government to back up its debt is simply ridiculous, that the board of said company keeps backing Alan Joyce is laughable.

How important is having a national carrier and can we really consider Qantas to be that airline? While it may have the kangaroo on the tails of its planes, Qantas has long since ceased to be Australian. Gradually moving its maintenance operations off shore, opening up routes from Australia to Emirates through code share agreements and charging more for flights on similar routes than other airlines, has signalled that the airline can no longer operate as the Sprit of Australia.

Alan Joyce has long borne the brunt of public outrage at the demise of the flying kangaroo, yet the Qantas board continue to back him. Any other chief executive who announced losses to the extent of those suffered by Qantas would find himself on the first boat back to where he came from, but not the Teflon-coated Mr Joyce. Taking no responsibility for the crisis Qantas finds itself in, Joyce has gone cap-in-hand to a Government which has already flagged cuts in education and health to beg or blackmail for a debt guarantee, which wouldn’t actually save the airline from more cuts. It’s time for the Government to look at the bigger picture and make a decision based on sound economic principles rather than nostalgia.

Coming hot on the heels of other mass job losses in the manufacturing industry, 5000 retrenchments is not to be ignored, but rather than simply providing a debt guarantee, for a business which can’t sustain itself, the time and effort would be better spent working out a positive solution for those who will lose their jobs and supporting ventures which provide a more diversified workforce. It may also be worth noting that our big four banks have a debt guarantee in place and this hasn’t helped the consumer one bit.

As tough as it may be, the time has come to cut Qantas free.

Do you think the Government should back Qantas’s call for a debt guarantee? Or should it rush through legislation which enables the airline to seek a majority foreign ownership? Do you still prefer to fly Qantas?





    COMMENTS

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    Spud
    3rd Mar 2014
    12:20pm
    Qantas has not been particularly well run since before Alan Joyce took over as CEO, but in spite of that there is no way it could ever compete with government subsidised foreign owned airlines, especially those from the Middle East awash with oil money. Until there is a level playing field no Australian industry can compete with imports from low wage countries and an artificially high Aussie dollar.
    Nightshade
    3rd Mar 2014
    7:13pm
    Does 'subsidised' mean we are in debt to this/these/other - nation/people/ BIG & allowing them to set up shop subsadised by Australia is us repaying them that debt - ?

    How exactly has Australia paid for oil from the Middle East all these years ?
    A careful look at the nations business ownership & activities leads me to believe that Australia & it's assets has be mismanaged & squandered at best.

    Also CROWN LAND means that Queen Liz owns Terra Firma Australia & we are just tenants paying rent.

    "I wonder what they did with the wealth derived form Australian assets ?
    Buckingham Palace is CRUMBLING beneath them."
    Nightshade
    3rd Mar 2014
    7:22pm
    I smell a rat !
    Nightshade
    3rd Mar 2014
    7:24pm
    It is the same with the White House - literately fall down around their ears.
    Nightshade
    3rd Mar 2014
    7:34pm
    Q:- why exactly has Alan Joyce been sent out to run Quantas ?
    Q:- there is no one in Australia that could have run Quantas ?
    Q:- has/is Alan Joyce running Quantas down to the ground deliberately ?
    Q:- it leaves Australia's hands clean "it wasn't us - he did it not us"
    Q:- isn't that why they bring out foreign CEO's "in hindsight it was not a good idea but it was not us" - wink, wink, say no more.
    moorlands
    3rd Mar 2014
    10:08pm
    Hey Nightshade, Geoff Dixon was once described as a "Street Fighter " I would suggest (only my opinion) and ( How sad that we have to add that to avoid litigation) that he was a " Company Mugger " .
    moorlands
    3rd Mar 2014
    12:23pm
    Yes scrap the " Qantas Sale act " and put it on the market, but who would buy it? investors invest to make money not lose it, the only interested people would be "Asset Strippers ".
    As for the comment about putting Joyce "On a boat back to where he came from " I thought racism was illegal?
    Qantas aircraft are full every flight despite being the most expensive, despite this their income does not cover their outgoings, so what does that tell you? anytime Joyce tries to make cuts he is faced by industrial action especially from the Engineers.
    The rot in Qantas started with Dixon who instead of investing in modern infrastructure handed out generous dividends to the shareholders, thus keeping the share price high and ensuring high bonus's for board members, at the same time maintaining a cosy relationship with the Unions whose members also received an annual bonus.
    Dixon left and Joyce was left to try to catch up with competing airlines with their up to date infrastructure, and a workforce who were not used to being asked to renegotiate their conditions to make the airline competitive.
    Yes Joyce is overpaid, and so is every other CEO in Australia. If anyone out there can give some positive suggestions as to what else he can do or could have done? then let's hear it.
    Nightshade
    3rd Mar 2014
    8:08pm
    Who ?
    The House of Saud is always on the lookout for good & profitable investments
    Indeed it maybe that, that is exactly in the direction that Alan Joyce is mismanaging Quantas too...
    And maybe because WE OWE THEM BIG and it is time to pay up.
    Is the House of Saud also interested in an Australian sponsored & subsidised auto industry.

    Once upon a time we tried to export live sheep to the Middle East - the sheep sat on the ship & died - they did not want our sheep - eventually we gave the sheep to them for zero $$$ ... ????
    Anonymous
    3rd Mar 2014
    11:33pm
    Nightshade

    The majority of the big investors in Australia are from WALL STREET (USA) and LONDON (UK). The investment from the House of Saud is miniature in comparison. Although, I must qualify this by saying that Emirate Airlines already have a corporate "arrangement" with Qantas .

    However, it is the only time we ever hear about FOREIGN CONTROL in Australia, from our (US/UK) foreign controlled Corporate Media …. is when the Foreign Investment is coming from the middle east or china/asia, etc.


    moorlands

    Joyce is doing what he is paid to do, put pressure on the government (no matter which party) to divest taxpayers money and put it into the foreign corporations pockets who CONTROL the Qantas Board AND to make the airlines 100% foreign owned……. SEE BELOW.

    The latest proposal which I have just heard and is quite DISGUSTING, is that Qantas be split into two companies. One is DOMESTIC and one is INTERNATIONAL. Of course, it would make sense for the domestic to stay Australian BUT NO….. they (the FOREIGN board that runs Qantas) are proposing that the DOMESTIC be allowed to be 100% foreign owned and the the INTERNATIONAL remain 50% Australian.

    FACT: the INTERNATIONAL sector would NEVER SURVIVE because it has to compete with GOVERNMENT OWNED AIRLINES and those airlines that control their countries airways. It would go broke in no time because it can not be supported by a DOMESTIC sector. The PROFITS are in the DOMESTIC sector which is why the Foreign Controlled Board of Qantas, want the DOMESTIC to be 100% FOREIGN.
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    12:11am
    So Mussitate, what is the answer? The open cheque from " UK Mummy Queen " that was the reason Australia existed, no longer exists. We are now part of that now nasty competitive world?
    Crazy Horse
    4th Mar 2014
    10:57am
    I am of the same ethnicity as Alan Joyce and I agree that he should be sent back to where he came from.
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    5:04pm
    Crazy Horse, Please read again I DID ask for positive suggestions. Got any?
    KSS
    3rd Mar 2014
    1:04pm
    I cannot pretend to know the reasons for the trouble Qantas is in but I do think there are serious questions that need to be asked. For example, why is it that Qantas, despite charging more than almost any other airline on the same routes, made three times the loss of Virgin Australia in the same period? Before the unions take the fall, do they not have the same influence over terms and conditions for Virgin employees as they do with Qantas', so why the price differences? Why are the Australian (and others) flying public not supporting Qantas? (This is different to supporting those whose jobs may be at risk).

    Qantas is a private company no longer owned by the Australian Government or the Australian people (unless you are a shareholder). The Qantas Sales Act was put in place twenty years ago primarily to ensure the company remained in Australian ownership as a sweetener for the Government of the day selling the airline. Things are very different today than they were 20 years ago. Notwithstanding the romantic notion of all things Australian (think Holden, SPC.....) Qantas simply cannot continue in the way it has been. Things must change.

    I cannot accept that high employee costs are the sole reason for the demise. I have not seen anyone come forward with answers as to how the 'worker' is expected to afford to live in Australia (particularly the major cities Sydney/Melbourne/Perth) and pay the costs of housing, groceries, insurance, utilities, schooling, transport, clothing, health care + medications, dental care, glasses, etc etc if wages are to be cut to compete with overseas vendors. Wages are 'high' because people need the funds to exist. And it is not just families (of any hue) - consider singles, no children but still the same high costs of living. And that is before we even get to the lifestyle niceties such as meals out, the occasional drink, a holiday perhaps. If people can't afford those things more jobs are lost.

    Mismanagement at the most senior levels needs investigating - the CEO and The Qantas Board have to take a long hard look in the mirror. If they want the Government to amend the Qantas Sales Act to allow more overseas investment that means they clearly think there is a market for more investment in the company. No-one would put their money into a 'sinking ship'. Therefore, the Board and Mr Joyce (should he remain in the position) have more to do - and not just with an axe.

    The Government cannot and must not prop up companies that are clearly not sustainable. However, it must also not be a barrier to potential solutions to saving those same companies.
    Anonymous
    3rd Mar 2014
    6:16pm
    KSS
    Excellent comment.
    Qantas is top heavy but as for Virgin, pays their lower minions as little as possible….. to the extent that Qantas created a pseudo company (QGS - qantas ground staff) 100% owned by Qantas to employ ground staff (minions). Minions employed by QGS report to Qantas managers, get paid by Qantas staff, work along side Qantas workers - doing the same job but with the Qantas worker earning more and gets better and higher benefits, than the QGS worker. Obviously, when a Qantas minion leaves, they do not replace them, all new staff come from QGS company.

    I don't know why the unions and the government have not seen this as a sham but there you go.

    Now, on to OWNERSHIP. I have continually stated to people that mega corporations are getting rid of their US$ by buying into solid assets all around the world but that they have a particular interest in Australia because we are asset FAT/RICH. In other words ripe for the pickings - extraction of OUR wealth, into their foreign pockets.

    Joyce, in October 2011, was 96% supported by shareholders. The biggest 20 shareholders controlled 80.3% of total VOTING shares and that just the top four (4), a group of major global financial conglomerates, hold over 70%.

    It is obvious from this, that these shareholders have their own people on the board and that Alan Joyce is the fall guy and is doing EXACTLY what they want him to do. They have a political agenda.

    Oh! Did I tell you that the top four shareholders were and still are, to the best of my knowledge:
    - biggest was, JP Morgan (division of the global JP Morgan investment house) - FOREIGN mega corporation
    - next was, HSBC - FOREIGN mega corporation
    - next was, National Nominees - FOREIGN mega corporation
    - next was, Citicorp - FOREIGN mega corporation.

    THE SAME mega FOREIGN corporations that OWN between 42 - 48% of ALL our Australian BANKS. That is huge, mega control over OUR most important Australian assets….. they (these foreign mega corporations) own us!!!

    So, who is running our so called Australian Banks and Qantas and who has that much power over our government and our very democratic processes - foreign mega corporations.

    It is a lot more difficult to remove the 50% Australian ownership from banks but a lot easier to START with Qantas. Besides, if you own between 42 & 48% of ALL Australian Banks, you effectively own OUR BANKS, the control is humongous. These foreign mega corporations, have their representatives sitting on OUR banks BOARDS and are running the show… no doubt what so ever.

    Do FOREIGN MEGA CORPORATIONS run things to the benefit of their host country….. NO, of course not. They run things to ensure they receive the most wealth, without any responsibility to the country or the people that they extract this wealth from. They are parasitical and simply move on, should their host collapse or die.

    With such powerful mega foreign corporations in control of such critical facilities and utilities, they can make a loss or profit whenever it suits them…. simply by transfer pricing and transfers and big wage bills (to themselves and a select few…. NOT the workers). They can put an immense amount of pressure on our government to do what they are told. That is why the USA is in extreme trouble, simply because the democratic processes are completely controlled by mega corporations. The wealth has been sucked out from under Americans, many of whom live in 3rd world conditions with no health care and no education.

    These mega foreign corporations move by stealth and usually with infinite control over our MEDIA. Hence, the need to rid Australia of public broadcasters who are required to report factually under statute. To close down our internet where alternative information is obtainable and to instal FILTERS to control what we see. To ensure Facebook now directs you to particular items, rather than you selecting where you want to go or what you want to see. Ditto, twitter and google.

    I am or was in a position to know these things and see them in action which is why I see the danger of these mega foreign corporations to Australia and every Australian.
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    12:48am
    Hi KSS, I know people who work for Coles, K, Mart, Council, Etc, Etc, They seem to exist on their wages?
    KSS
    4th Mar 2014
    7:46am
    'Exist' is right Moorlands. Not 'Live'.
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    11:58pm
    KSS, Please Explain?
    seniorsid
    3rd Mar 2014
    1:05pm
    I totally agree with Debbie, why does Qantas use the threat of sacking 5,000 workers to try and force the Government to back it up, when it is obvious that poor management has put them in this situation. If the Government pulls them out of the quicksand they are in, then every other struggling company should be privy to the same treatment.
    When I was a boy we were told,"A good tradesman, never blames his tools"!
    I have only flown Qantas once in my life, and I would never use them again! Not only are they not competitive, price wise, the service leaves a lot to be desired.
    The Airhostesses looked like Rugby players in drag, and with the same way instruction were given, such as, "Wake em up Shirl, it's time to feed em!"
    Recently, I flew Virgin Airline, who really know how to make a flight enjoyable, real women, good service and meals, TV in the back of the seat in front of you, all this along with one of the cheapest airlines, great stuff, Virgin, you have a customer here!
    I can remember the days when you went to the,"Pictures", on a Saturday afternoon and watched, Bud Abbott and Lou Costello, great comedy team, now they have changed their Christian names and gone into Australian Parliament, time to get serious Mr Abbott, say no to that pretender Joyce!
    Ritza
    3rd Mar 2014
    2:24pm
    Dixon and Meredith Helicar tried to sell off Quantas and make a motza of money. It failed. Dixon anointed Joyce as the one to succeed. Rob Borghetti ( another contender) went to Virgin. Rob should have been the one put in charge.


    We have very little that remains Australian.. how sad
    Tom Tank
    3rd Mar 2014
    3:59pm
    Qantas is a mess and the decision is should it continue to be our National Airline? Do we need to have a National Airline? It is more complicated than a simple quickfix.
    Alan Joyce has been a disaster but then were the previous lot any better as they laid the groundwork for the current mess. They should be forced to hand back the Golden Handshake they were given on departure.
    I know a Ground Engineer who trained with Qantas and worked some years with them but now works for Virgin. Qantas's industrial relations left a lot to be desired and the whole workforce were very unhappy so he left and now really likes working for Virgin.
    Perhaps we should at the example of another group of businesses who were no longer viable until bailed out by the Government and still are being bailed out to the tune of millions each year. These are the Private Health Funds. The taxpayer contribute 30% of the monthly contribution to keep those funds in business. Why you might ask? Well I guess you should contact John Howard and ask him failing that Tony Abbot should know.
    There is a real contradiction is all of this in that some private enterprises are being funded to the hilt and others are being shut down. Why??
    tia-maria
    3rd Mar 2014
    4:17pm
    Alan Joyce been paid 2 million a year.......... to run Qantas..........now again its in big trouble............ and so actions speak louder than words........Mr Alan Joyce are you worth this amount to screw up the company like you have?............ after all your the one at the control of this hugh organisation???? I feel so sorry for the innocent workers of the Qantas who will be looseing their jobs while you sit back and keep earning the out of control wagers for allowing to run the Qantas down to the ground.

    3rd Mar 2014
    6:16pm
    Qantas is top heavy but as for Virgin, pays their lower minions as little as possible….. to the extent that Qantas created a pseudo company (QGS - qantas ground staff) 100% owned by Qantas to employ ground staff (minions). Minions employed by QGS report to Qantas managers, get paid by Qantas staff, work along side Qantas workers - doing the same job but with the Qantas worker earning more and gets better and higher benefits, than the QGS worker. Obviously, when a Qantas minion leaves, they do not replace them, all new staff come from QGS company.

    I don't know why the unions and the government have not seen this as a sham but there you go.

    Now, on to OWNERSHIP. I have continually stated to people that mega corporations are getting rid of their US$ by buying into solid assets all around the world but that they have a particular interest in Australia because we are asset FAT/RICH. In other words ripe for the pickings - extraction of OUR wealth, into their foreign pockets.

    Joyce, in October 2011, was 96% supported by shareholders. The biggest 20 shareholders controlled 80.3% of total VOTING shares and that just the top four (4), a group of major global financial conglomerates, hold over 70%.

    It is obvious from this, that these shareholders have their own people on the board and that Alan Joyce is the fall guy and is doing EXACTLY what they want him to do. They have a political agenda.

    Oh! Did I tell you that the top four shareholders were and still are, to the best of my knowledge:
    - biggest was, JP Morgan (division of the global JP Morgan investment house) - FOREIGN mega corporation
    - next was, HSBC - FOREIGN mega corporation
    - next was, National Nominees - FOREIGN mega corporation
    - next was, Citicorp - FOREIGN mega corporation.

    THE SAME mega FOREIGN corporations that OWN between 42 - 48% of ALL our Australian BANKS. That is huge, mega control over OUR most important Australian assets….. they (these foreign mega corporations) own us!!!

    So, who is running our so called Australian Banks and Qantas and who has that much power over our government and our very democratic processes - foreign mega corporations.

    It is a lot more difficult to remove the 50% Australian ownership from banks but a lot easier to START with Qantas. Besides, if you own between 42 & 48% of ALL Australian Banks, you effectively own OUR BANKS, the control is humongous. These foreign mega corporations, have their representatives sitting on OUR banks BOARDS and are running the show… no doubt what so ever.

    Do FOREIGN MEGA CORPORATIONS run things to the benefit of their host country….. NO, of course not. They run things to ensure they receive the most wealth, without any responsibility to the country or the people that they extract this wealth from. They are parasitical and simply move on, should their host collapse or die.

    With such powerful mega foreign corporations in control of such critical facilities and utilities, they can make a loss or profit whenever it suits them…. simply by transfer pricing and transfers and big wage bills (to themselves and a select few…. NOT the workers). They can put an immense amount of pressure on our government to do what they are told. That is why the USA is in extreme trouble, simply because the democratic processes are completely controlled by mega corporations. The wealth has been sucked out from under Americans, many of whom live in 3rd world conditions with no health care and no education.

    These mega foreign corporations move by stealth and usually with infinite control over our MEDIA. Hence, the need to rid Australia of public broadcasters who are required to report factually under statute. To close down our internet where alternative information is obtainable and to instal FILTERS to control what we see. To ensure Facebook now directs you to particular items, rather than you selecting where you want to go or what you want to see. Ditto, twitter and google.

    I am or was in a position to know these things and see them in action which is why I see the danger of these mega foreign corporations to Australia and every Australian.

    3rd Mar 2014
    6:21pm
    A really good solution for Australia, is for the AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT to purchase 50% of the VOTING stock and to put their people on the board, to counteract the (purposely) gross mismanagement of Qantas and to ensure that Qantas is not subject to FOREIGN control and FOREIGN political agendas.

    A lot better than HANDING OVER our taxpayers money to FOREIGN mega corporations, controlling Qantas OR issuing guarantees to shore up FOREIGN mega corporations who simply want to control the whole airline with no impingements.
    wally
    3rd Mar 2014
    7:01pm
    Hi Mussitate, Brace yorself for a shocker, (and I hope you are sitting down!) because I agree with you on this one. Millions in taxpayer dollars were sent overseas for foreign company shareholders when governments gave money to Mitsubishi, Ford, General Motors and Toyota to keep their factories operating in Australia.
    Now, despite a lot of huffing and puffing, Abbott told Coca Cola Amatil (an Australian Company, by the way,despite the name,) to dig into their own substantial corporate profits to upgrade the machinery in the SPC Ardmona plant and not expect the government to donate the money for them. Likewise, I see no reason for taxpayers' money to go to QANTAS to get them out of their troubles. Years of bad habits such as over servicing, over paying the stall ( thank you, unions. Are you going to let your pig headedness in demanding exorbitant rates of pay shut down QANTAS like Ford, GM and Toyota chose to do rather than continue a steady financial drain caused by their Australian car plants? Talk about killing the geese that laid the golden eggs!) have caused this sorry state of affairs. To offset their additional costs, QANTAS put their prices up and lost customers to lower cost rivals. So it is a never ending circle.
    Like Australia's soon to be departed car makers, the workers and the union bosses have to realize that the gravy train cannot continue as it has in the past and their intransigent demands over pay and conditions will send QANTAS the way of Ford, GM and Toyota.
    Sentimentality is all well and good, but the punters spend their money to get the bargains whether it is in clothing, groceries, electrical goods or motor cars. So unless buying patterns change, get ready to say good bye to QANTAS.
    Anonymous
    3rd Mar 2014
    8:45pm
    Wally

    I agree with Abbott about not bailing out Foreign Corporations (Coca Cola Amatil is not an Australian company other than being incorporated in Australia, it is still owned by Coca Cola…. the parent company - I have not researched this BUT this is normal corporate practice).

    However, ALTERNATIVES are needed, rather than simply allowing the closer of these factories. Other options have to be looked at that maintain employment BECAUSE the manufacturing industry is ESSENTIAL to the economic wellbeing of ANY nation.

    For Example: Why not have the government either take over these factories and run the operations….for one, no PROFIT is needed, it only has to break even. The government may be out of pocket for the factory and putting in new plant & equipment BUT from there on in, it has an investment that pays for itself and employs people which in turn keeps Australia's economy ticking over nicely. Trade agreements could be negotiated on the basis of keeping our manufacturing sector in tact. ALL GOOD.

    Now on to the cost of labour in QANTAS. Tommy rot, wally, unions are barely able to protect the pilots and engineers, let alone the minions that do the dirty and heavy work, although, they do their best.

    The BIG cost blow out to Qantas is not the minions, not even the pilots and engineers BUT the big boys, wally….. the board, executives and top management. They take humongous salaries (not to mention the Fringe Benefits), all supported by droves of upper and middle management…... they suck up MOST of that labour cost, that is supposedly crippling Qantas.

    Nice though, for us to be onside with this one wally.

    Cheers
    MITZY
    4th Mar 2014
    4:34pm
    Abbott must love the executives of Cadburys to give them millions, not for help because they needed it infrastructure-wise, but to attract tourism. There are many ways to attract tourists, through appropriate channels.
    I suspect the reason Coca-Cola Amatil were not accommodated with millions for their SPC cannery is because the non-executive Chairman of Coca-Cola Amatil is DAVID GONSKI and the likes of Abbott/Pyne etc. are at odds with him regarding the Gonski education reforms. How's Singapore Airlines doing financially? Gonski is also a non-executive Chairman of this airline. He has been described as one of this country's best connected businessmen and dubbed "Mr. Networks". There are so many clever and well-informed top executives but sometimes they don't get the recognition they deserve, it's all about "who you know" as usual, and the wheel keeps turning.
    moorlands
    7th Mar 2014
    12:52am
    Mussi, Your theory is good but that sounds very much like Communism, which under our "Democratic ??? " system was outlawed? . The salaries of CEO's and Board members are a total rip off in Qantas, and throughout the world but probably would amount to no more than 0.1% of the overall wages bill, you maybe can prove me wrong?
    Nightshade
    3rd Mar 2014
    9:44pm
    I heard, this morning on the radio -
    25.000 jobs lost in S.A. recently
    They have the highest unemployment is Australia
    Way to go -
    Anonymous
    3rd Mar 2014
    11:11pm
    Nightshade

    Our unemployment overall is now worse than that in 2002, Howard's era.

    The stupid obsolete ideology that says, keeping a hoard of unemployed is good so that the employers (usually the large corporations) have the upper hand, is ridiculous and so very old hat and out of date.

    Of course, it is NOT good for a healthy economy to have a hoard of people unemployed….. it is detrimental to our economy and the general well being of our nation.

    You see, in the end, it is purely mathematics….. a small amount of people with lots of money, don't spend even a fraction of that spent by huge majority of people. The more money circulating throughout our economy, the better the economy is….. I think the huge majority have it, don't you.

    In regard to the closures….. governments are NOT there to give money to large and mostly foreign corporations, that is called socialising these companies losses whilst they keep private their profits.

    HOWEVER, that doesn't mean the the government sits on their hands and does NOTHING!

    There are many options that are open to the government and ONE has been mentioned above….. "Why not have the government either take over these factories and run the operation. For one, no PROFIT is needed, it only has to break even. The government may be out of pocket for the factory and putting in new plant & equipment BUT from there on in, it has an investment that pays for itself and employs people which in turn keeps Australia's economy ticking over nicely. Trade agreements could be negotiated on the basis of keeping our manufacturing sector in tact."

    Any government which is facing so many closures should be PRO ACTIVE and spending money on NEW FACTORIES, owned and funded by the government….. it is cheaper than paying out unemployment benefits and keeps our manufacturing sector alive and well.

    3rd Mar 2014
    11:42pm
    I have just heard the latest proposal by the FOREIGN CONTROLLED Qantas Board.

    THEY want to split Qantas into two airline companies - one DOMESTIC only and one INTERNATIONAL only.

    Guess which one this Foreign Board at Qantas want……

    Yes, you got it, they want the one that makes profits…… the DOMESTIC one…… they want the DOMESTIC one to be 100% foreign controlled and owned!

    The INTERNATIONAL Qantas, can stay 50% Australia, say the foreign controlled Qantas Board ……. how very, very disgusting.

    An INTERNATIONAL ONLY Qantas airways wouldn't last a month. It would go broke, because there is very little to be made internationally, particularly as many of the airlines are government owned and controlled, so don't need to make a profit and can squeeze out most competitors who rely on profits.
    moorlands
    3rd Mar 2014
    11:44pm
    Hi folks, I will try again, my last post was deleted, does anyone suspect that Abbott has had Botox?.
    Nightshade
    3rd Mar 2014
    11:48pm
    If they lowered prices overall & across the board - people would have purchasing power - a consumer led recovery would happen - goods & services would be in demand - production would go up - employment would happen & the whole problem would be solved -
    THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE
    BUT WE CAN'T HAVE THAT
    LET US BE BROKE BUT/AND HAVE TO BORROW MONEY INSTEAD
    WHICH INCURS INTEREST
    MAKE SURE THAT WE LOOK AFTER OUR MATES IN THE BANKING SECTOR FIRST
    MAKE SURE THAT OUR BANKING BUDDIES ARE MAKING THEIR ALMIGHTY BUCK
    None of this is hard only that mates come first.
    wally
    4th Mar 2014
    9:42am
    Hi moorlands. Regarding you last night's comment about Abbott and botox. If this rumour is true, where would you suppose Abbott is getting the injections?
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    1:17pm
    No idea wally, but it's either botox or pancake makeup.
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    4:53pm
    Wally I saw him again on TV today, what's happened to the hair? hair extensions? whereas usually world leaders age with the responsibility Abbott seems to have found the " Fountain of youth " P.S. I'll have what he's taking,or the name of his beautician.
    unicorn
    4th Mar 2014
    10:25am
    Alan Joyce is only doing what every other CEO of other companies have done all along and that is to take Australia for a ride. Look at the CEO of Holden a greT American Australian company & FORD another one, look at Telstra CEO that got it deeper & deeper in debt. They all get $Millions of $$$, while the company goes down the tube & looks at the Governement for more Millions $$$.
    Anonymous
    5th Mar 2014
    2:47am
    so, damn true.

    The saying for most corporations is PRIVATISE your PROFITS and SOCIALISE your LOSSES.

    ie. taxpayers foot the bill to make up corporations losses but we see bugger all of their profits… they don't even pay much tax… if they pay any at all, it is only at a rate of 30% which is incredibly low, especially considering that ordinary individuals have a top tax rate of 45%.
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    1:25pm
    We have to face facts, we cannot compete with the US, UK, Germany, etc, etc, if you spend more than you earn something has to give. Government money is OUR tax money, I for one would resent MY money being given to Engineers earning between $100,000 and $200,000 per year.
    Reeper
    4th Mar 2014
    1:30pm
    Unfortunately Qantas is now a political animal. The ALP, Greens and PUP are all set to block changes to how Qantas can be owned, and the only loser will be Qantas workers, more of whom will lose their jobs. Qantas has been in trouble for years and not too long ago, a senior Labor Minister recommended the ownership rules be changed. We should not be backing Qantas financially for many reasons, not least of which the general public do not own the airline. Alan Joyce has been plugging holes in the sinking Qantas since he took over. Whether he is the right man now is not for me to discuss since I do not know how major corporations operate, and frankly neither do most people. The only salvation for Qantas is to become competitive even if that means some foreign ownership. I would hate to see Qantas be wholly owned overseas, but if that is the way to save the Brand, the Airline and thousands of job be it. Mr Shorten needs to put politics aside and support the governments efforts to save the airline.
    Anonymous
    5th Mar 2014
    2:53am
    Reeper

    Hear what you are saying BUT Joyce has NOT been plugging holes, he has been creating them. He and his board have a political agenda and they will try every trick in the book.

    4th Mar 2014
    5:40pm
    Major chariot building firms went bust centuries ago...the Romans had touring ships where you could go rowing for a couple of decades and see the world...that business went bust....QANTAS will stay of fall...that's life.
    moorlands
    4th Mar 2014
    6:12pm
    Hi folks and welcome to the Wally Mussitate show. You pair are certainly entertaining despite your alternative paranoia, and by the time I have read your lengthy post's I have opened the second bottle (You may have guessed). I am totally against MY money being used to subsidize anyone. Farmers make their profits by exporting their produce, ( not by feeding us starving Australians), Qantas as well as ( Abbott's latest vote buying subsidy Cadburys) make their profits by importing tourists into Australia which every country in the world is trying to tap into. Which one is most deserving? In the words of Pauline "Please Explain? and for all you smug bum holes, yes I had to look up Xenophobia in the dictionary.
    Anonymous
    5th Mar 2014
    3:01am
    aaaarhhh! the second bottle, that sure as hell explains a lot.

    No wonder your comprehension seems to be limited to Abbott and botox.
    moorlands
    6th Mar 2014
    6:47pm
    Ah Mussi, that second bottle , could I suggest that you and wally try it, it certainly relaxes the sphincter. I have found that I prefer " Lambs Navy Rum ". On the ships we were served "Navy Neaters ' but of course they cannot sell it here as it is to thick to suck through the straw which is the way I prefer to drink it. Hic.
    Wendy HK
    4th Mar 2014
    8:07pm
    I know I am only "small potatoes" as I don't fly very often.
    My friend and I used to attend trade shows twice a year for many years and always flew Qantas (loyalty to Australia and all that) - until they introduced the check-in kiosks and we (older folk) didn't know how to use them. We approached a few female staff standing talking and were quite rudely told to "read the screen" as they went back to their conversation. We had already done what we could but didn't understand some of it so we just need a moment of their time to point out what else we needed to do. Grrrr!
    We both emailed a complaint to Qantas and guess what?? No response at all! - and I am still 'stewing" about it!!!
    We then changed our preferred airline to Virgin and I have never flown with Qantas again.
    We made a minor complaint to Virgin - I cannot recall what it was now but we did get a reply even if something wasn't done - and we were happy that we at least were listened to (an email costs nothing)
    My friend had quite a few Qantas frequent flyer points so she flew down to visit me in the last few weeks but needed to go home earlier and tried to get online to change her booking -couldn't get on - tried to get an answer on the 24 hour hotline - waited for an hour and a quarter and gave up - she took a cab to the airport the following day to do the change of booking. Guess who is now going to let her points go “by the board” and never fly Qantas again.
    That’s just us – my son had the same sort of story and I guess there are many others out there too!
    SERVICE is GOLD! How hard is it to make companies realise this??? They blame absolutely everything and everyone for their woes but never look at themselves. Don't get me started!!! :-)
    unicorn
    6th Mar 2014
    11:51am
    One of the reasons Joyce cant afford to employ Australian workers would be that an air hostess was talking on air last Sunday saying that she was on her way to Sydney to get on board a Quantas flight which was leaving Sydney at a certain time & she was to be part of the cabin crew, the interesting thing was she was driving to Port Macquarie to catch a flight to Sydney so thta she could be there on time. No doubt who paid for the flight to Sydney why was she hired to travel to Sydney every time they need her to earn the wages ???? Come on Mr Joyce it is no wonder that Quantas is going down the tube I have never heard of such a ridiculous set of circumstances for anybody's job most people have to get to work the best way they can at their own expense. I remember a chap living down the road from me when I was young who worked at Sydney as a flight director, He had to have his own car in which to get to work as he worked staggered hours sometimes rising at 5 am to get to work by 6 am. Sometimes working until 6 am. Nobody paid for his travel to work.
    moorlands
    6th Mar 2014
    7:07pm
    Unicorm, Bit garbled. Are you saying that if I live in"Back of burke"" that Qantas should pay for me to get to work. I believe this arrangement has existed with Pilots for years, perhaps someone can explain?
    moorlands
    7th Mar 2014
    12:23am
    Just read an interesting comment by Etihad CEO James Hogan. " The market has to reflect the right price,and you have to tackle your cost base " who can argue with that?
    moorlands
    8th Mar 2014
    9:57pm
    I really think that Qantas, Etihad, Emirates, British Airways, Singapore , Malaysia,etc, etc, should be charging we passengers less, and paying themselves more. It has worked for Qantas so it is obviously works?


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