15th Aug 2017

Barnaby Joyce dual citizenship saga

Drew Patchell

On Monday, New Zealand Prime Minister, Bill English, confirmed that the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia Barnaby Joyce is a citizen of New Zealand.

Unwittingly or not, because his father was born in New Zealand, Mr Joyce is a citizen of New Zealand by descent and this Kiwi citizenship does not have to be activated.

"Last Thursday afternoon the New Zealand High Commission contacted me to advise that on the basis of preliminary advice from their department of internal affairs, which had received inquiries from the New Zealand Labor Party, they considered that I may be a citizen by descent of New Zealand," Mr Joyce told Parliament on Monday.

"Needless to say, I was shocked to receive this information. I have always been an Australian citizen, born in Tamworth, just as my mother and my great-grandmother (were) born there 100 years earlier."



"Neither my parents nor I have ever applied to register me as a New Zealand citizen, the New Zealand Government has no register recognising me as an New Zealand citizen," Mr Joyce told Parliament.

The High Court will now decide the fate of Mr Joyce's political career by ruling on whether he has breached Section 44 of the constitution and would therefore be ineligible to sit in Parliament.

The Greens and Labor Party are calling for Mr Joyce to resign as Deputy Prime Minister until the High Court rules on his case.

"How on earth can this Government have someone in the office of Deputy Prime Minister when they don't even know if he's meant to be a Member of Parliament?" asked Labor frontbencher Tony Burke.

After receiving legal advice, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is "very confident" that Mr Joyce won't be disqualified. In a 1992 ruling, the High Court ruled that just because a country gives an Australian citizenship doesn't mean that Australia has to recognise it.

Opinion: Less checks to be a parliamentarian than to apply for a Visa

In the latest parliamentary embarrassment, the Australian public is learning that even more members are ineligible due to dual-citizenship issues. It makes one wonder how such significant legislation is overlooked by politicians when running for government. It also calls into questions the diligence of their parties and, of course, those in charge of enforcing the legislation. It seems as though it’s easier to get into Parliament than it is to apply for a passport or Visa.

The same people enforcing our borders, making billion-dollar decisions on behalf of our country and deciding our futures can’t even check their own citizenship status.

These parliamentarians have made a mistake in failing to renounce citizenship. However, the fact that the law itself doesn’t allow dual citizens to sit in Parliament in this great multicultural country seems ridiculous.

According to analysis by the ABC’s Antony Green, if the High Court disqualifies Barnaby Joyce for dual-citizenship by descent, it will mean 40 to 50 per cent of the Australian public would need to renounce dual-citizenship before being eligible to run for Parliament.

This story is still developing. Several MPs born overseas are yet to provide documentation that they, too, don’t hold dual-citizenship.

It seems only logical that, for the greater good of our parliament and to prevent a thinning of the ranks (which already seems extremely thin as it is), parliamentarians who have citizenship without their knowledge can renounce their secondary citizenship and continue serving our country.

What do you think? Is the current dual-citizenship law ridiculous? Should a multi-cultural country like Australia allow dual citizens to sit in Parliament?

Read more at abc.net.au
Read more at news.com.au
Read more at theaustralian.com.au

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COMMENTS

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Strummer
15th Aug 2017
10:03am
Absolute rubbish. Barnaby is as Aussie as Russell Crowe and pavlova.
marls
15th Aug 2017
10:22am
He knew his father was from nz and he knew the conditions of employment as a federal member and he knows the constitution whether we like it or not we all are legally bound to uphold the law
jackie
15th Aug 2017
10:44am
Ha ha
MICK
15th Aug 2017
11:23am
So are the others who resigned Strummer!
Whilst this is a ridiculous issue demonstrating how backward our country is all politicians need to play by the SAME RULES until this issue is fixed.
It is quite dishonest to say that Cavanaugh and Joyce have no case to answer whilst the Greens MPs who were pushed into resign did, but this is the continuing issue I see in this coalition government which applies different rules to itself than it does to others. Did I hear Turnbull use the word "sloppy" to denigrate the Greens? Yeah...sloppy Malcolm! Not us?
Blossom
15th Aug 2017
12:10pm
marls, he was born in Australia. Neither he or his Dad have applied for NZ citizen for him. Under Australian Laws he is Australian.

Are they sure they don't want to go back 3 or 4 generations and all countries have the same laws. I would have at least 2 overseas citizenships.
Graeme
15th Aug 2017
12:57pm
Strummer,
Some people are a bit thick, or maybe I should say short as that went totally over their heads
George
15th Aug 2017
1:16pm
You have missed the point, Strummer. The issue is that he is a dual citizen, and the High Court needs to decide whether that makes him ineligible to be in Parliament. On the surface, it looks like he is ineligible, but let the court confirm that.

The Constitution is perfect in this regard - we should have undivided loyalty to this country from parliamentarians. Just because some incompetent people did not check out their citizenship status, as required in their job application, doesn't mean the rules need to change.

BTW - most of the ones caught out so far seem to be the "wacko" ones (except I am not sure about Cavanaugh who he is, etc, as we hardly ever heard from him)! The ones who have little regard for details which should be an essential criteria for their roles!
MICK
15th Aug 2017
1:33pm
I fully understand what this debate is about. The issue is however that the government pushed out Bob Day and 2 Greens senators with exactly the same law. Now that 2 of their own are caught out it is 'different' and they want the High Court to let them off. This is typical coalition double standards and not new to anyone.
This glitch needs to be resolved. No question. In the meantime Kavanagh and Joyce need to resign. THAT IS THE LAW! For all, not just everybody else.
margiemill
15th Aug 2017
2:02pm
Hey Strummer. I hope that was said tongue in cheek.. Russell Crowe was born in Wellington New Zealand and kiwis made the first pavlova..lol
marls
15th Aug 2017
3:17pm
Strummer
I read Barnaby' fathet was nz born
And Russell Crowe comes under the spec cat viza as all ppl from nz that came from a certain date
marls
15th Aug 2017
3:17pm
Strummer
I read Barnaby' fathet was nz born
And Russell Crowe comes under the spec cat viza as all ppl from nz that came from a certain date
Kaz
16th Aug 2017
9:20am
How dare you compare Barnaby to Russell! I think Russell is a kind intelligent true caring Aussie. Barnaby pretends to be but supports fracking (not on his land?) and is generally disrespectful.
Ted Wards
15th Aug 2017
10:11am
Its ridiculous. He's lived his whole life here as has the other politicians. Stop wasting tax payers money on this rubbish.
Wstaton
15th Aug 2017
10:13am
Ever heard of sleepers?
marls
15th Aug 2017
10:24am
Ted wards
My children are born here and some have never been to my birth country but they are still dual citizens
Troubadour
15th Aug 2017
10:31am
Totally agree - this is all getting out of hand.
Julia Gillard's parents were both Welsh, so therefore this should mean she was also dual nationality - she became Prime Minister and no shouting was done then.
So was she also illegally in that position and if so what'about legislation passed when she was in tenure, should that be still allowed...... see how crazy this is getting,
Barnaby Joyce was born here so is an Aussie through and through.
jackie
15th Aug 2017
10:47am
Could it be that Wales does not have dual citizenship for those not born there?
Troubadour
15th Aug 2017
11:06am
Jackie Welsh comes under UK and therefore does have dual citizenship. Did Julia renounce hers maybe ??
Tom Tank
15th Aug 2017
11:32am
Interesting question about Julia Gillard but, as I understand it, the ALP have been careful about dual citizenship so I expect she did renounce it, if she actually had it in the first place.
It is a bit of a minefield and Turnbull didn't help when he was so scathing of the Greens when their situation came to light so now he is hoist on his own petard.
There is an elephant in the room with this question of allegiance as that is not confined to citizenship but across beliefs as well. Surely someone elected to represent Australians should owe allegiance to their electorate.
The fact is that most owe their allegiance to their political party as first priority and that is not democracy. Religious beliefs can also affect allegiances but that is truly a hot topic that no one wants to get into.
Wstaton
15th Aug 2017
11:35am
Correct if she had renounced then she was legal.
Huskie
15th Aug 2017
11:50am
There is no such thing as Welsh citizenship. It is UK or British citizenship.
4b2
15th Aug 2017
1:29pm
There the ones wasting tax payers money by not taking proper steps to provide evidence of one nationality. At least Labor have processes in place to establish one nationality prior to preselection.
Misty
15th Aug 2017
4:37pm
Maybe not Troubadour, she may have renounced any duel citizenship's that she had before entering parliament as that is the rule apparently and anyone who wants to enter political life should check and double check what the requirements are before they do so. I am really surprised that Barnaby did not check this out as my husband was Austrian and our children have duel citizenship and as having 1 or 2 foreign born parents often means the children become citizens of their parent's country I am surprised Barnaby didn't think to check this out.
Vivity8/7/2007
15th Aug 2017
8:48pm
Julia Gillard did renounce her British Citizenship before entering Parliament. Her official confirmation of renunciation from Britain is on the Internet. What applies to one should apply to all maybe all aspiring Politicians should have to prove publicly their heritage and prove that they have renunciated all other allegiances prior to Elections.
Wstaton
15th Aug 2017
10:14am
Hmm Maybe just like the rubbish being spent on a same sex marriage postal vote.
Kaz
16th Aug 2017
9:31am
Yes. Just bring it in and be done with it. Howard didn't ask when he changed wording and started this mess
marls
15th Aug 2017
10:15am
It's these politicians that are wasting taxpayer money they are highly educated and intelligent they knew the conditions of their employment and the constitution is the law regardless of whether you agree or not
jackie
15th Aug 2017
10:49am
maris....Yes they do waste taxpayer money because they aren't intelligent. A high education is for those that can afford it.
Wstaton
15th Aug 2017
11:41am
A high level of education does not signify a high intelligence. There are many people who have had little education through no fault of their own who are highly intelligent. I think it would prefer these sort of people considering the stupid things that some of our highly educated politicians get up to.
4b2
15th Aug 2017
1:33pm
Phony Tony was Rhodes Scholar? So much said for highly educated. IQ and education gets lost when ideology becomes more important that morals, personal beliefs, and res of the country.
Kaz
16th Aug 2017
9:32am
This thread is brilliant. Thank goodness you have mentioned intelligence because it is sadly lacking in this govt.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
10:25am
New rule:- You cannot accept elected or high appointed position within the commonwealth unless your parents were both born here and have a totally clean history.
Frank
15th Aug 2017
1:10pm
If this keeps going will it only stop after 65,000 years of ancestry history?
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:33pm
Yeah - no half measures....
Rae
15th Aug 2017
2:45pm
No you just need to renounce citizenship of the foreign nation and take up Australian citizenship only. It isn't a complicated rule and it doesn't stop new immigrants from participating as long as they pledge allegiance only to Australia.
Needy not Greedy
15th Aug 2017
10:27am
Poor old Baaaaa naby, they should at least piss him off until the High Court gives him the flick, saying he didn't know is an insult to people's intelligence, with all of the publicity of the last few months and his denials to reporters over the last month, a quick visit to the NZ passport site says in plain language that if your father is a Kiwi you are automatically a Kiwi regardless of where you are born, many other countries have similar laws, after all if a pig is born in a stable you don't call it a horse!
George
15th Aug 2017
1:18pm
Good analogy!
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:35pm
The duke of wellington story:

"You're Irish, aren't you, Wellesley?"

"SIR! Because one is born in a stable does not make one a HORSE!"
jackie
15th Aug 2017
10:39am
Typical Liberal double standards.If he had of been Labor there would have been an uproar. This party is going down.
greenie
15th Aug 2017
11:46am
'If he had of been Labour...'
What do you mean?
greenie
15th Aug 2017
11:46am
'If he had of been Labour...'
What do you mean?
greenie
15th Aug 2017
11:46am
'If he had of been Labour...'
What do you mean?
GrandmaKathleen22
15th Aug 2017
12:30pm
Jackie and greenie,
If he had HAVE been not OF as the latter is a preposition not a verb.
Also, Australian Labor but British Labour!
4b2
15th Aug 2017
1:39pm
Jackie, if he had been Labor he would never passed the one citizenship test and therefor never been put forward for preselection.
Ted
15th Aug 2017
10:43am
The rules are the rules. suggestions to change the Constitution is another matter, one for the future. A referendum may fail anyway!

For now though, the rules were in place when the various politicians were elected and they should have abided by them.
ghoti
15th Aug 2017
2:56pm
I agree, Ted. The Constitution is the law and must be obeyed by all.

Joyce said that David Gillespie (who owns a shopping centre that contains an Australia Post outlet) took a massive pay cut in order to become a politician (he was a gastroenterologist), and he's a hard-working good bloke, so he shouldn't be ruled ineligible and therefore have to resign. When confronted by alleged massive water theft by irrigators on the Murray-Darling system said not to worry: the water's gone into agriculture so it's a good thing. In other words, he has no apparent respect for the law of the land when he doesn't like the outcome. Yet he's our Deputy Prime Minister! Now he's saying that despite all the warnings and publicity he didn't know he had dual citizenship. Yet he ticked the box saying that he wasn't when a two-minute check on the internet would have told him that he was - surely there's an offence right there? His refusal to resign is yet another indication that he seems to believe that the law should not apply to him or his interests.
Misty
15th Aug 2017
4:43pm
Didn't Barnaby also say he had never been to the UK and this just a couple of weeks or months, not sure which, when he had returned from a visit there, said he had forgot or some such thing.
Old Man
15th Aug 2017
10:52am
Whilst I agree that any politician who was born overseas has an obligation to check their citizenship status, I can't agree that a politician born in Australia should have to provide any other documentation than an Australian Birth Certificate. This is getting ridiculous. If the letter of the law is to be upheld then any legislation that has had any of the dual citizenship politicians involved should be declared null and void as they were ineligible to participate.
marls
15th Aug 2017
3:26pm
Savta
Aust has the same laws if I child is born overseas to one Aussie parent that child is classed as Australian the gvt is cuirenylh giving support to our most dangers terrorist in overseas jail because is wife has a child to him
Old Man
15th Aug 2017
4:25pm
maris, if you mean Neil Prakash, currently enjoying Turkey's penal system, he was born in Melbourne. Please let me know if you mean another terrorist who is classed as "our most dangerous".
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
5:13pm
He made his own jihad - let him lie in it... is there any value to Oz in bringing him 'home'? Perhaps the Guv could offer him a job training our troops .... after full de-briefing, of course.... then he could pass on tactics and such that might help our troops in future...
Savta
15th Aug 2017
11:10am
What a load of rubbish! Born in Australia and has never made application to be a citizen of New Zealand! Since when did countries start giving out citizenship to people born elsewhere, that have never applied for it and who undoubtedly they don't even know exist! Is New Zealand so hard up for citizens it has to gain a population by default? New Zealand should change its law so that only those who actually apply for citizenship under the law of descent are eligible to be called citizens! Almost comical!
Wstaton
15th Aug 2017
11:47am
Now we are telling other sovereign countries what they should do because our rules are stuffed.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
12:57pm
You have missedv the point Savta. NZ is far from short of new citizens- it is the OZ constitution that is behind the times. You should understand that laws are supposed to reflect the times in which they operate- not like our CONSTITUTION that was drafted by lawyers in bygone days when little OZ was a big dry land mass somewhere in the South Pacific surrounded by Islands of like kin- but now that document is OUT OF DATE> Compry ???
Graeme
15th Aug 2017
1:10pm
Oars,
Get real, by your standards 90% of the world has outdated constitutions, as any country that is more than a hundred years old has had only a few changes to the constitution.
The constitution does not need to be changed to account for the stupidity of politicians, we just needs better quality politicians.
Rosret
15th Aug 2017
1:31pm
Savta it has always been that way. If you have a child born in a foreign country your child is automatically an Australian citizen.
I think you would see the logic of that right.
As a new nation of many transient people I am surprised that the Constitution in 1901 was so well defined.
MjP
15th Aug 2017
3:40pm
Not so R0sret, our eldest son was born in Papua when Papua was administered by Australia, but he had to apply for Australian citizenship it was not automatically given to him
Oars
15th Aug 2017
6:51pm
Graeme you have little understanding of Global laws based on your innaine comments. The underlying features of any law of any country is to keep the country safe- from outdated dopes, but particularly to keep up with the times. Of course the laws- that includes the constitution- need to be changed. You and your ignorant comments are wrong.
Farside
17th Aug 2017
2:41am
Rosret, my daughter was born overseas to Australian parents however we had to apply for her citizenship within 30 days of her birth in order for her to receive Australian citizenship
.
trood
15th Aug 2017
11:11am
How I would love to see this bastard deported to NZ!
GreyViper
15th Aug 2017
11:20am
WHY??? What did he ever do to you?
Tommo
15th Aug 2017
12:28pm
How can he be a " bastard " trood - he has a father and no doubt a mother! Perhaps the title you gave to the man could apply to you?
Oars
15th Aug 2017
1:00pm
Barnaby is not a basted as you suggested, he had a Kiwi dad and Oz mum. So what is wrong with a bit of ANZAC cross pollination ???
Rosret
15th Aug 2017
3:22pm
Trood if he was in fact a bastard as you incorrectly state then I wonder if he would still have NZ citizenship.
PS I don't understand why so many people on YLC feel the need to be so nasty towards other people (politicians included).
If you don't vote for the National Country party - fine.
If you see dual citizenship as an issue - then comment on that.
Paulo
15th Aug 2017
11:14am
Barnaby a Kiwi. I had my suspicions but they are now confirmed.
The requirement for only Australians to be elected is stated in the Constitution and is an essential and fundamental part of it, as it determines without suspicion where a senator or members loyalty lies.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
1:01pm
Shows that his "cross pollination" has put a bit of humor into this dry lot of wonkers at Canberra -ey?
Travelling Man
15th Aug 2017
11:14am
We all should have been alerted to the fact that Barnaby is a Kiwi long ago by his sartorial choices, especially the chapeau range!
Frank
15th Aug 2017
11:16am
For Goodness sake!!
Why doesn't the Labor Party get on with their job that they're getting paid for?
There are no records to indicate that Joyce is a NZ citizen. The fact that his mother was born in Australia and is probably 5th generation Australian counts for nothing obviously.
This is sexual discrimination at it's highest level. If a person who identifies as Aboriginal was in the same situation would that mean that he is no longer Aboriginal but a Kiwi?
Tom Tank
15th Aug 2017
11:39am
N.Z. were seeking to protect the progeny of the offspring of their citizens when the law was introduced. That was fine back then but is questionable now.
A major issue now is that it appears that Joyce is sitting in Parliament unlawfully which has to raise questions on any activity he participates in from now until his legality is clarified. He should do the right thing and step down immediately. Perhaps that is expecting too much of him.
Frank
15th Aug 2017
1:02pm
Tom, Barney's father was a British citizen when he moved to Australia. He married a British citizen. 12 months after Mr Joyce senior arrived to live in OZ the citizenship laws were changed. This is just another weak attempt by the Unions to rattle the government. The High Court will throw it out even though it is stacked by Laborites.
Rae
15th Aug 2017
2:52pm
Yes everything is the unions fault isn't it Frank. Nasty workers united. Should be laws against worker's rights. Getting above themselves.
Wanting holidays and time off when sick and money for housing and food. Taking golden spoons out of the right people's mouths.

The IPA were asleep on this one weren't they?
Frank
15th Aug 2017
6:06pm
I'm afraid I must disagree Rae. Not everything, just most things. I think we erred in allowing them to have their own political party.
Tom Tank
15th Aug 2017
9:49pm
It is actually thanks to people like you Frank that the unions had to form their own political party since they had been subjected to control of wages and conditions by the "Franks" of the time.
If you consider what is happening now a fair part of our economical problems are down to the weakness of unions so that wages are falling thus dragging the economy down.
Adam Smith in his "Wealth of Nations" stated that the wealth created should be distributed amoungst the whole community and not concentrated in a few hands.
I await your angry tirade in response Frank as an open mind is something that eludes you.
Frank
17th Aug 2017
10:25am
No I wont join you in the gutter, thanks any way. I understand the frustrations many on here must have given the realisation that communism is a self destructive theory.
Nanday
15th Aug 2017
11:22am
The issue is not dual citizenship, but the failure of these politicians to check. I was born in Canada as was one son, the other born in Australia. Both my sons hold dual citizenship, but they have always known. If a wanna-be politician has parent(s) born overseas, it's a simple matter of checking the country's immigration website, or contacting the embassy. Instead they signed the forms falsely, declaring that they held only Australian citizenship. It's like coming into Australia on a flight and failing to declare prohibited articles. We accept that there is a penalty for that, ditto with signing the nationality declaration. They should resign instead of crying that they didn't know.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
1:05pm
You seem to be a lawyer Nanday. Maybe the lad should be summons before the privvy council for obtaining OZ secrtets that he gives to NZ who in turn sell their meat at a cut rate to Japanese retailers. I can see it all now- headlines in Tokyo newspapers: "Joyce is the Choice for Meat that we Eat". Bloody hell this is all too FUCH-ey ???
Not Amused
15th Aug 2017
11:22am
Born in Australia = Australian. Why should politicians (or anyone) be at the mercy of the laws/citizenship of a foreign-born parent? Almost daily we witness the lowest of the low criminals, born in foreign countries, with strong allegiances to those countries being given more consideration and get out of jail free cards. They are the recipients of beneficial but serious judicial errors of judgment when it comes to decisions about them being deported. An innocent Australian born and bred in NSW is regarded as a New Zealand citizen? Madness.
cookie47
15th Aug 2017
12:27pm
I agree Not Amused, however it gives me a dilemma. Having been in Australia for 55 years and still travel overseas, when asked I always say I'm Australian and I might add proud of it. When people do pick up my slight London Accent I then explain where I was born. So based on the numerous comments today I'm probably wasting my time trying to be an Australian after taking the oath years ago. as one poster has pointed out "If the cat had kittens in the fish shop they wouldn't be called Flake.. Can't win....
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
4:13pm
Depends on whether or not you still hold dual citizenship, cookie. My kid's mother is an English-born Kiwi, and she renounced all to become an Australian citizen full and foremost.

It can be hard to let go of your 'motherland' ties, and she still happily claims to be English, and it is an emotional thing and has no real bearing on her allegiance to Australia and our kids and grand-kids etc.. that's where they are, so that's where she is.. .... but we do need politicians and senior public servants who are totally Australian.. for security purposes...
Canman
15th Aug 2017
11:25am
Ignorance of the law is no excuse, except if you are a pisshead sheep shagger, so the LNP say.
john
15th Aug 2017
11:25am
I was going to say that they should change the constitution, well NO. i THINK LEAVE IT. BECOME AN AUSTRALIAN IF THERE ARE ANYTHINGS YOU SHOULD DO IF YOU HAVE ONE OR BOTH PARENTS FROM OS,MAKE SURE YOU DO IT.
To add to that why the hell aren't lots of immigrants becoming naturalised. And learning English. This has opened up a can of worms , tough luck Barnaby but you have to go like the others.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
1:08pm
The number of kids with overseas parents would flood the Government Agencies, who are mainly manned by new OZZIES> This has become ridiculous already- how much more can you simple-minded group dish up -ey???
Oars
15th Aug 2017
1:08pm
The number of kids with overseas parents would flood the Government Agencies, who are mainly manned by new OZZIES> This has become ridiculous already- how much more can you simple-minded group dish up -ey???
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:39pm
Yes - we need to employ furruners to run public service operations now so they can all talk the same language.... funny (not) what that kind of thing can lead to.. watch the headlines...
Rae
15th Aug 2017
3:00pm
Yes TREBOR and as both sides of my family headed over the mountains just after Cox and took up with the locals my accent is so broad all those public servants can't understand much of what I'm saying. They usually go off to find an Australian to talk to me. Haha.
marls
15th Aug 2017
3:31pm
Oats
The dual citizenship restriction only applies to federal gvt nowhere else therefore does not afffect the average Aussie
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
4:15pm
"Do you need an Interpreter?" Yes/No.... (ROFL)....
alinejordan
15th Aug 2017
11:28am
for starters, Frank makes no sense at all!
and then: if Barnaby was in the Labor party, the uproar from the other side would be deafening. but no, he's part of their mob, therefore we make all the excuses under the sun to keep him in government, oh, he didn't know! what about all the other poor sods, who also didn't know, but were SLOPPY! yes, and guilty and therefore had to resign?????
Misty
15th Aug 2017
7:06pm
And you would think that all the pollies would have checked and rechecked after the 2 Greens and 1 national went wouldn't you, especially if you had 1 or both parents from a foreign country, makes you wonder about how bright our pollies are when they can't even check this sort of thing.
greenie
15th Aug 2017
11:49am
I didn't think other country's law applied here so why the fuss?
Chat
15th Aug 2017
12:55pm
greenie the Australian Constitution states:
Section 44: Restrictions on who can be a candidate for Federal Parliament

"Any person who is under any acknowledgement of allegiance, obedience, or adherence to a foreign power, or is a subject or a citizen or entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject of citizen of a foreign power …… shall be incapable of being chosen or of sitting as a Senator or a member of the House of Representatives."

Please note --- or is a subject or a citizen entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power.

This means that if another country e.g. the UK automatically grants the rights of citizenship to children of UK citizens then it is the responsibility of those children to ensure that they denounce that entitlement before attempting to stand for a Senate or House of Representative seat in Parliament.
Rosret
15th Aug 2017
3:27pm
The Law was introduced to stop parliamentarians using a biased vote to aid or influence their foreign allegiance.
Of course denouncing dual citizenship will not change anyone's bias so it is most important for the electorate to know who they are voting for.
I think you will find that Barnaby's voters know him well.
Misty
15th Aug 2017
4:53pm
As someone said yesterday, what if a politician had duel citizenship, say Australia and Nth Korea and war broke out between these 2 countries who would that politician owe alliegence too?, could cause all sorts of problems couldn't it also if trade deals were involved.
Teddyb
15th Aug 2017
11:49am
In reference to Trebor saying you need to have both parents born here and you as well, you open up a can of worms in regards to Defence, local government, State and federal Govt. I was not born here but became naturalised in 1957 under my parents. Served in Defence for 20 years, haved proved to the ATO (Tax Volunteer)that I am Australian and you are saying that I am not. If you do not have anything constructive to say shut your Gob.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:43pm
We'd keep a close eye on you.... I did say high appointed position.... or elected position... you can still clean out the dunnies at the base....

If you are more concerned with your own ego issues than the security of this nation - the door is over there, and you have already proven yourself unsuited to high position. No person should be entitled to take up an elected position or a high appointed position unless they are a proven Australian first and foremost.

If you haven't been watching the progressive social and economic disasters overcoming this nation with the mass introductions of Outlanders, with their business ethics and their social contract of master/servant, and their pursuit of money by any means, you are blind.
Rae
15th Aug 2017
3:05pm
Yes TREBOR this sudden outing of all these dual citizens certainly may account for some of the deals done which obviously benefit other Nations above our own.

Unfortunately Parkes and fellow drafters didn't see the selling of our country outright from under us as a possibility or the Constitution would have forbidden it I'm sure.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
4:21pm
I guess times were different then, Rae.. more simple and less treacherous shoals than the modern era of dealing with corporate offshore vultures and country rapists and exploiters, from nations where they are billionaires and most live on $10 a week or less and fight off the cobras in the rice paddies for a few shekels or whatever.

There were still in existence the bones of corporate rape of resources including labour - but this modern era has raised that to a very fine art form... hence the NEED for Australian leadership first and foremost... before the ship goes under for good... and we have the Asian/Oriental spectre of the ruling and governing classes all being mega-billionaires and exploiting every resource of the nation for their own profit first, including the military to clamp down on dissidents.

This country can still be saved from the impending Downfall into total Third World--sim and massive divides within itself - but it will take a genuinely united AUSTRALIAN leadership to do it... and I do not see that anywhere on the horizon at this time - apart from a very few I see commenting here and elsewhere.
dougie
15th Aug 2017
11:49am
The constitution does not need to change - only those would be pollies who should know better when nominating.
I would hate to see any change to the need for being a fully paid up and genuine Australian without any possible links to other countries. Ie. No dual citizenship allowed as in many other nations.
With our ever increasing multi national citizens I feel that this need for single citizenship with allegiance only to Australia is necessary. If you want to live here and enjoy our life and benefits become an Australian, no allegiance no benefits and only temporary visa for a set period. Be an Aussie and be proud of it.
George
15th Aug 2017
1:39pm
Agree, dougie.

Also, on the plus side, many getting undeserved freebies from the taxpayer are now getting turfed out by their own stupidity! Great news!
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:44pm
All that is needed is a firm rule... one rule for all...
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
5:33pm
Oh - when Tones was handed the PM-ship - I believe I said this would be the Government of Watershed in Australian politics... Tony and Co have been a terrific catalyst for much needed change here - I always said he had the best interests of the country at heart - if not in mind...

Looking back over the past four years and even further back, there have been many revelations and wake-up calls for ordinary Australians.. the drums have been rolling and the pipes calling the clans for years now ....to me, the only question left is - do we leave power and control of this nation in the hands of two hide-bound and ideologically tied and thus stagnated and mired down parties - or do We the People take back the asylum ..... and how?
Wstaton
15th Aug 2017
11:57am
Now just watching the news Julie bishop trying to put all the blame on labor for their stuff up. Why did I expect something like this to happen. Now it's to undermine the government.

It does not negate the fact that Joyce has dual citizenship.
Rae
15th Aug 2017
3:09pm
The LNP started this and don't like it when the consequences hit back. Typical born to rule beliefs.
bebby
15th Aug 2017
4:03pm
I saw that interview too Wstaton, and as well as being dirty on Bill Shorten she was furious with the New Zealand government. She was very righteous indeed. She did not act like the Foreign Minister.
She was very very nasty. A really bad look for Ms Bishop.
bebby
15th Aug 2017
4:03pm
I saw that interview too Wstaton, and as well as being dirty on Bill Shorten she was furious with the New Zealand government. She was very righteous indeed. She did not act like the Foreign Minister.
She was very very nasty. A really bad look for Ms Bishop.
almost a grey hair
15th Aug 2017
4:06pm
Damage control, when you haven't got a clue blame it on someone else. Surprised its not the CFMEU's fault
Misty
15th Aug 2017
11:49pm
Leave that one to Michalea Cash almost a grey hair, that is her stock answer and also Scott Morrison's, they sound like a broken record.
Annie
15th Aug 2017
11:57am
Not a National but this has gotten out of hand now, I would think most everyone has some family member not born in Australia or they were born in another country.
Time to bring Australia into the 21st century folks and get this so called Government doing what it's supposed to be doing running the country.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:46pm
Mine have been here since the 1850's....... I might be the only one eligible... make it a family corporation... not much new there anyway... politics here is somewhat dynastic...
Ian
15th Aug 2017
12:00pm
I don’t get this *dual-citizenship drama * ?? somebody is just stirring poo just for the fun of it
I was born here Australia 70 years ago my father born here Australia so was my grandfather, great grandfather and my great great grandfather
Now the poo hits the fan my mother moved to Australia as 10 year old in the 1930s
Now the way Canberra politicians and some other people are carrying on I’m not 100% Australian and by some comments I may have to now to pay back my pension
I have served in the Australian army, How come?? I’m not 100% Australian by Canberra politicians rules, I have payed Australian taxes why? I’m not an 100% Australian by Canberra politicians rules
Does this now mean I can be kicked out
My mother’s father is on the honour roll at the Australian War Memorial * Eric Vollhiem * oh he was not an Australian by the way Canberra is carrying on yet he died fighting for his new country
Frank
15th Aug 2017
12:56pm
Ian, do you think you may have a case for compensation? Can you get the NZ Labor Party to investigate?
Chat
15th Aug 2017
12:59pm
Come on Ian, stay focused!
This is not about anyone except any person wanting to stand for a seat in the Senate or House of Representatives -- in the Federal Parliament.
It is irrelevant to anyone else.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:47pm
It's already hit the fan with several members of OTHER parties forced to stand down or resign...

What is under discussion here is a double standard....
Blossom
15th Aug 2017
12:05pm
It seems NZ has it own set of rules.
Does than mean Australians born here may be citizens of another country by default even if they don't have citizenship in that country at all???.
If other countries had that rule many Australian citizens would be dual citizens by default. If you are adopted you would have no knowledge of your genetic family history.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:49pm
Apparently so... simple to clear up... denounce immediately.

The only question is, should Joyce etc stand down immediately the same as certain others did, or is he a sacred cow because he is part of the sitting government majority?
KSS
15th Aug 2017
12:26pm
What possible relevance does this matter have for the NZ Labor Party that they sought clarification from the NZ Department of Internal Affairs?

Do they want him back?
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
2:59pm
We can but live in hope....
Oars
15th Aug 2017
6:58pm
If all those kids whose parent(s) were from NZ went home, then who would be left here to fill the top academic jobs- Punjubs ??? Plenty of them to fill the "vertical pencil cases" around Sydney-Ey??? They brought talent, humor and a bloody good rugby team- the ALL BLACKS !!!! who will soon be here to WALLAP the WANTABIES>
Chrissy L
15th Aug 2017
12:31pm
What a lot of rubbish this citizenship debate is. What a waste of time and money. Australia has been built on immigration, we must have thousands of dual citizens in this Country that would be ineligible to be an MP Is that discriminatory? Surely by gaining Australian Citizenship and pledging allegiance to Australia that should be enough. There are also practical reasons why people have dual passports. If you still have family in other Countries e.g. the UK you can stay longer if you travel on an EU passport, which can be beneficial if you need to look after an ageing parent or have a family issue you have to deal with. If we still have a UK subject as our Queen and that of other Commonwealth Countries, where many of our migrants have come from, what a lot of hypocrisy this is and what a waste of taxpayers money.
This Government will go down as one of the biggest wasters of our tax dollars. Surely there are more pressing issues they should be addressing than citizenship anomalies and surveys on same sex marriage.
Why are they not concentrating on issues affecting Australians, like safe Aged Care, Retirement Village rip offs by overseas multi millionaires, the rising cost of living whilst wages and pensions are reducing, affordable housing, affordable education for our young people. This list goes on.... I am SO over them. The sooner we have an election the better.
Sen.Cit.88
15th Aug 2017
12:55pm
Well said Chrissy L. At last a reasonable comment
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:01pm
Pure Australians only for the top spots...... no ifs, no buts... you want to remain some kind of Faroffistanian - that's your own problem.

We will decide whose business ethics and social values arrive on our shores!

(didn't I hear something like that somewhere?)....
Rae
15th Aug 2017
3:14pm
Decendents of the early settlers and indigenous people have been discriminated against for around 200 years. Nothing new here.

Be glad of two passports just don't stand to run the country unless you are prepared to give the foreign one away.
Rosret
15th Aug 2017
5:03pm
Actually Chrissy L it is a very significant point of Constitutional law and given 50% of Australians were born overseas it is more poignant now than it was 100 years ago.
We must ensure parliamentarians show sole allegiance to our nation.
I have no doubt that none of the individuals in question should stand down and the Constitutional Law needs a few minor amendments.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
12:49pm
As an innocent bystander, I wonder if we have all missed the point. This CONSTITUTION was drawn up long ago, by lawyers who had Australia as an isolated island and probably wanted to keep "strangers" out. Now we are in the "global" culture, it seems obvious that the constitution is changed, modified, to keep up with the times. Next they will ban the All Blacks from playing here for fear of them "taking over". Ha ha ha. I am not a Wallaby supported -even though a great many of their team is made up of "foreigners".
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:04pm
Kokonuts are the backbone of many Rugby sides these days.... I heard over the weekend that one NRL player - from Fiji, I think - qualified for Wallaby selection and also maybe even State of Origin in League.. it's all in the rules....

What we are discussing here is the rules and what they actually mean. I have no doubt that Joyce was caught unawares - but he is not alone, and others have stood down or been stood down for the same thing.

The double standard seems to be the issue.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
7:05pm
Trebor- you have erupted as a racist. Koconute ???? really. The pacific Islanders are all keen sportspeople and I have played against and with them. They have a natural ability to fling the ball around and are frequently selected by their talent- with a few exceptions. The Wallabies team is a case in point. Their "all white-chappy" policy finds their team lacking any gutz, so they call in the talent from outside the hallowed halls of nice boys from "pravit" schools Ra, Ra Ra, how spiffing that will be at the reunion next year. A Koconut saved our day- how jolly. !!!! snore.....
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
9:19pm
Nah, nah - don't go disparaging our Wallabies...they'll find their feet some time..... not sure when, though...

As for Kokonuts - well - that's just a generic term for the many who live here... I was in NZ for a Bledisloe cup match in.... umm... 1987 I think, and couldn't buy a beer since I was the only Aussie there and the Kokonuts wouldn't let me... and all I said was that I'd taken the guy who was being disparaged a year ago as not fit for the All Blacks for first try scorer (which he did!), and he went on to be their Captain...

They LOVE Rugby... bring on the cup.... now lemme look at the Wallaby lineup and raise some questions....
Dollars over Respect?
15th Aug 2017
12:50pm
Yes this whole situation is ridiculous. If you want to represent this country, as an Australian, and contribute to making our laws and hold the power to influence decisions that have an impact upon your fellow countrymen, you should not be exposed to conflicting loyalties. It's expected that an Australian citizen's total loyalty should be to the country in which they hold citizenship - one that they actually want to live in and call 'home'. One foot in two countries...where's the genuine commitment to Australian conditions? Anyone caught up in such a situation should simply and immediately renounce their 'unintended' citizenship officially - and only then should they be permitted to continue to hold office and make or contribute to decisions made for and on behalf of other Australians. Our existing Constitution Law makes total sense and eliminates unforeseeable conflicts of loyalty. Those that want to 'have their cake and eat it too' should not be permitted to stand for election or hold positions of power and influence.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:07pm
No man can serve two masters. Just reading up on Robert The Bruce and how Edward I Plantagenet held many Scots lords in his pocket by giving them English titles and lands and thus making of them his vassals in England, which undermined their position in Scotland as independents in an independent nation.

Gives a whole new interpretation to Braveheart... (which is still not historically accurate)..

As for La Joyce - (Joycegate?) - others have stood down before renouncing foreign ownership (sic) - why should he be exempt?
Oars
15th Aug 2017
12:53pm
Yep I agree that the CONSTITUTION needs an update. We are not aaan isolated island like we were when the lawyers drafted this document. We are in the Global community, where an alegance to this country has formal detail that should take into account the changing global community. Changfe the constitution to keep up with the times. God knows we are slipping behind on so many other things.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:11pm
Just a crystal clear rendition of the rules is what is required, including the specific actions that must be taken in the event someone has fallen short of the rules.

(Back on Ye Olde Rugby Fielde)..

"Sorry - you're a registered player here, but also in Farkistan (where the winds blow so cold the crows fly backwards so their eyes don't freeze and they constantly call FARK), where your parents were born.. you can't play here until your Farkistani registration is reounced!"
Graeme
15th Aug 2017
12:59pm
The constitution does not need to be changed to account for the stupidity of politicians, we just need politicians with ability equal to the average person.
Misty
15th Aug 2017
7:13pm
Totally agree Graeme 1 1/2 weeks of Parliament sitting and not one thing relevant to the majority of Australians discussed, although I do agree with Marriage Equality.
WideBayMike
15th Aug 2017
1:03pm
I was born in New Zealand in 1945 a fifth generation Kiwi born on the same block of dirt. I came to Australia in 1968 and married in 1970. My daughter was born in 71 and is Australian through and through and yet yesterday afternoon learned she was an NZ citizen by descent because of a NZ law that passed through their parliment in 1948. "The act, which provides that every person born outside New Zealand between 1 January 1949 and 1 January 1978 shall be an NZ citizen by descent if born to a Kiwi father." The world has gone mad a law that was passed in another country 69 years ago and stopped being a law 39 years ago can give a person dual citizenship today.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:12pm
Now now - no more sob stories.....
Graeme
15th Aug 2017
1:04pm
What would happen if Naru (for example) made all our politicians citizen of their country without their permission or knowledge, would we have to sack the entire parliament? That actually sounds like a good idea.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
7:22pm
This furora could have global repercussions. maybe that Nth Korean leader was actually born in Tasmania to Irish parents who were eloping from UK prior to 2nd world war,and they lost their passports in the swim ashore. Well now, how does that leave the Irish? Are THEY to blame for blowing up the South China sea, or are the Tasmanian Devils to blame- or wot. How F****Ig ridiculous. All of a sudden we have "experts" on this blog who are Constitutional lawyers. I always thought the standard of lawyers was falling fast, but this ....too much. Kiwis are OK- they drink, climb mountyains and play bloody good rugby ALL BLACKS are comin' !!!!
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
9:21pm
Someone said elsewhere all our problems were solved - Fat Bad Haircut Boy had made all Australians NK citizens...no war for us!!
SWOZ
15th Aug 2017
1:06pm
Since Australia is one of the few countries in this part of the world that makes everyone borne here an Australian citizen, this fact should take precedence and all citizens borne in Australia, no matter where their parents were from, are eligible to sit in our national parliament, unless they applied for a 2nd, foreign citizenship and were granted such. Anyone borne overseas, whether to Australian parents, or otherwise and became Australians by choice, or by their parent's choice, need to provide proof that they are not foreign citizens, or have no longer any rights to foreign citizenship. Simple! I hope the High Court also interprets the constitution that way.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:16pm
As long as those born here Australian citizens make sure they renounce any foreign allegiance before accepting or standing for any high poisition here - all well and good.

Easy to do - all check now, get back to class at 8.30 am tomorrow with your paperwork in order..... if you wish to retain allegiance, even partial allegiance, to some Old Country, there are resignation forms by the door on your way out... watch that door - it swings mighty hard...

We don't mind if you want to call yourself a Greek Australian or a Farkistani Australian of the Slosam religious persuasion... as long as you bring in the nice foods for lunch and share... but if you want a top slot here, you MUST be Australian first.

Anyone here do a decent curry?
KSS
15th Aug 2017
6:16pm
Actually Australia does NOT make everyone born here an Australian citizen. The baby takes the citizenship (and visa status) of their parents.

Do you not remember the case of the baby conceived in detention with the intention of claiming their child is Australian therefore they should all stay? The Courts ruled that the baby takes the nationality and visa status of the parents and therefore was not in fact Australian at all just by virtue of place of birth.

The USA does claim babies born on USA soil as Americans, but not Australia. Yet!
Misty
15th Aug 2017
7:18pm
I don't think that is correct KSS, my children have an Austrian father but were born here and are Australian Citizens, my husband never became naturlised. They can also travel on an Austrian passport as can I, a born and bred Aussie unless Austria changed their laws in the last few years.
KSS
15th Aug 2017
8:54pm
Exactly Misty. You are Australian and YOUR children are also Australian and no doubt with the ability to apply for Austrian citizenship if they chose. Had you been Austrian like their Father it may have been a different outcome.
Julio
15th Aug 2017
1:13pm
since when, a person born in Australia is not Australian
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:17pm
When they're a divided Australian... no man can serve two masters....
KSS
15th Aug 2017
6:18pm
No one has claimed Mr Joyce is not Australian. Only that he is also a New Zealander. The former due to his Mother's citizenship, the latter due to his Father's.
Rosret
15th Aug 2017
1:19pm
I think what is needed is an amendment rather than change. A lot of allied nations offer the right of citizenship to children born overseas to one or both children.
It would be nice to think these people can preserve their dual citizenship so long as it is only to a allied nation and this list may vary as political allegiances change.
For example: The Queen has very strong German hereditary links yet during WWII her allegiance was totally British and always has been.
It doesn't matter whether someone denounces allegiance to another nation they are what they are. Anyone who demonstrates any allegiance to another nation due to hereditary or political bias should be removed from parliament.
None of the politicians affected by this Constitutional law in recent months have shown any allegiance to another country.
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:20pm
You are correct on 'allegiance' - but the rule should be simple and clear. NO foreign citizenship or divided citizenship if you want a hand in running THIS country.

Amazing how history repeats itself... this could be 1930's Europe and seeking Ein Reich, Ein Volk and Ein Furious Writer... and people began to have to prove their true blood and allegiance before they could get certain positions. etc..

This needs to be resolved NOW before it blows up into some kind of monster.
Rosret
15th Aug 2017
3:32pm
Yes, Trebor. What a pity it didn't come to light just before an election. The last thing we need is the cost of more premature elections.
4b2
15th Aug 2017
1:25pm
Just as well there s no IQ test for these morons. The fat guy with the tomato face seems to talk about his Mother and Grandmother a lot, must have had issues with his Father's side of the family. O that's right they are Kiwis lets keep that quiet.

So much for our so called leaders showing leadership and following the legal requirements for their jobs. They put the CFMEU to shame.
Not Senile Yet!
15th Aug 2017
1:41pm
No the Constutution is quite Clear!
To be a Member of Our parliament you cannot hold dual citizenship!
Nobody needs to resign...thats just crap!
But they must Relinguish their Other Citizenship in favour of Soley Australia to remain!
A simple legal document sign and witnessed plus surrender of Passport etc is Sufficient.
In Barnaby joyces case he needs to disown his new zealand citizenship! Simple.
There is no need to change the Constitution whatsoever!
Wanna be an MP....One Passport...One citizenship!
It is a legal requirement!
One cannot be divided on your loyalty.
Its Australia only....or stand down!
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:23pm
Joyce should have signed the papers immediately this came out.... all done and dusted.

Why is he hanging on? and why did others have to resign over the same thing rather than simply sign the paperwork and get it done?

"If anything happens in politics, it was planned that way"- FDR (close to his comment)...
Oars
15th Aug 2017
7:09pm
Then do you allow a Non- Australian citizen to do business in Australia. Or do you have to be a dinky di Oz to make a living here. Many of the big businesses will go out the door if their CEO's are forced to be Oz Citizens. Then where does it stop. Does a person residing here for 50 years without a Oz Citezenship get kicked out ?
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
9:25pm
we're working on the corporate vultures, Oars.... minimum tax etc have been discussed several times here.... they can do business here but on our terms, just like you can't buy a waterfront hotel in Vietnam unless you have a local partner and employ local staff etc... I had my eye on one down at Vung-ers, too.... oh, well...
Not Senile Yet!
15th Aug 2017
1:46pm
Constution is quite Clear...No dual citizenship is acceptable! Renounce the other Citizenship and surrender passport or Resign!
It does not need changing whatsoever!
It simple needs to be Policed!
Robi
15th Aug 2017
1:53pm
Barnaby Joyce should resign. Is there is one rule for the Greens and another for the Libs and Nats? Looks like it!
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
3:24pm
That is the nub of the matter - others had to resign.... why not Baa-baa?
KSS
15th Aug 2017
6:25pm
Whilst the outcome is the same i.e. they all held dual nationality, the difference with the two that resigned was that they were born overseas to overseas parents, one Canadian the other NZ (I think). They both came here are young children but already had foreign citizenship, knew it and they never renounced it.

Mr Joyce was born here to an Australian Mother and NZ Father. His 'crime' was that he didn't check his NZ status on the basis of a law that was law when he was born, but which was rescinded 30 years ago.
Sceptic
15th Aug 2017
2:16pm
OK MICK,never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Bob Day was inadmissible due to a pecuniary interest. The two Green senators were born in Canada and New Zealand, respectively. While Barnaby Joyce was born in Australia. You have the gall to say that the first three instances are the same as Barnaby Joyce's. This is not a comment on Joyce's senator-ship is valid or not, just drawing attention to your permanent bias.
The Black Fox
15th Aug 2017
2:24pm
Barnaby Joyce and Matt Canavan hold duel citizenships and, as per the Australian Constitution, they cannot sit in Federal Parliament. Whether you think this is right or wrong, this is the way it is. The point of this rule is that people with duel citizenship might have split allegiances. Would the same sympathy as some feel for Joyce be there had he been born in Australia to Iranian or North Korean parents for example - even if he speaks perfect "Strine"? Both Joyce and Canavan must to be removed from Federal Parliament immediately and replaced as per the rules. The question has to be, given that both these men have been there illegally through a term of government where the ruling party has a majority of one, whether legislation passed in that time can or should stand.
Rae
15th Aug 2017
2:38pm
No I don't think the Constitution need changing. Anyone nominating to stand for Parliament needs to decide exactly where their loyalty lies. To foreign governments and corporations or the Australian people.
Oars
15th Aug 2017
7:11pm
If that was the case the Labor party would be bankrupt in a month !!!!
MjP
15th Aug 2017
2:41pm
Bad analogy Strummer, New Zealanders claim Pavlova as their own.
Gee Whiz
15th Aug 2017
2:51pm
One of the most useless politicians ever to sit in parliament. He is a waste of oxygen.

Let's hope he is turfed out. An alcoholic replacement couldn't be any worse. Or could they. Remember this is the LNP where're talking about.

They invented the word "useless".
doris008
15th Aug 2017
3:04pm
I can not believe that people making comments about where we born. Your Mr Joyce was born in Australia, he prove it. Dose that mean I'm English by birth?? even those my( Father) was born in England,and my (MOTHER) I born here in Australia?. What bunch asshole you people can be.... go have look at self and don't throw stones at glass houses, plus clean up own act first. I'm proud AUSTRALIAN, and think our government can't even conduct them self in proper manner. Go for it now as i don't care what you say about me because just sit laugh at small mined people.
KSS
15th Aug 2017
6:28pm
Actually doris880, the fact that your father was british gives you the right to apply for British citizenship if you chose to do so. Even if your Father renounced his own citizenship.

Thousands of Australians have done exactly that (or even claimed their Grandparents citizenship) for decades making their 'gap year in the UK much easier.
Beeman
15th Aug 2017
3:44pm
Be careful about pushing for a change to the Constitution over this matter. We might finish up with Sharia law if a change is made
Oars
15th Aug 2017
7:13pm
You must visit Bankstown in Sydney lately- especially after dark. Sharia Law is alive and kicking - and shooting too.!!!
TREBOR
15th Aug 2017
9:27pm
We welcomed them with open arms, and they opened fire back!! Now that's what I calla sensible immigrant.... dumb as two planks nailed end to end... bite the hand that took you in and gave you a better life...
almost a grey hair
15th Aug 2017
3:59pm
If I was Bill Shorten I would give him an ALL Black Jumper as a gift as he is clearing out his desk or as he is walking out the door for the last time.
Misty
15th Aug 2017
7:25pm
I don't think so almost a grey hair, anyway what has Bill Shorten got to do with this subject?, he is not the one with duel citizenship or the one in charge of the country, in fact at the moment I think the proverbial Drover's dog would do a far better job then the lot that are there now.
kinkakuji
15th Aug 2017
4:10pm
ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS
What we are seeing from the federal government and all of the media is just a cover up to Australia’s real problem.
DEBT – WE ARE BROKE
So what do they do? Throw as many smoke screens in as they can, Hawke and Keating did it.
Who gives a flying [ahem] about:
SSM
SAFE SCHOOLS
LGBTI
CITIZENSHIP
And the list goes on and on, but not one of them mention our economy.
kinkakuji
15th Aug 2017
4:10pm
ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS
What we are seeing from the federal government and all of the media is just a cover up to Australia’s real problem.
DEBT – WE ARE BROKE
So what do they do? Throw as many smoke screens in as they can, Hawke and Keating did it.
Who gives a flying [ahem] about:
SSM
SAFE SCHOOLS
LGBTI
CITIZENSHIP
And the list goes on and on, but not one of them mention our economy.
jonty
15th Aug 2017
4:53pm
We're always lectured by the conservatives that ignorance of the law is no excuse, 3 strikes and you're out and all that rubbish.
Barnaby Joyce should resign forthwith and then wait for the High Court ruling; not sit smugly in the parliament inferring that the same laws don't apply to him and those 'born to rule'.
They're so quick to bash pensioners and the unemployed when mistakes are made in declaring income etc., not to mention moving the reporting goalposts every 5 minutes, and using their infamous algorithm to insist that innocent people have broken the law.
So Barnaby Joyce has been receiving his parliamentary salary and perks under false pretences for how long !!
I think because of this government's double standards and hypocrisy the Governor General should withdraw their commission to govern, and call for new elections with candidates that are properly qualified to seek election to the parliament.
Robi
16th Aug 2017
7:43am
I agree Jonty. Barnaby Joyce and Matt Canavan have been in government under false pretences and should do the right thing and resign. While they are allowed to remain the LNP is governing illegally with ineligible members. They should either replace Canavan and hold a bi-election in Joyce's seat or dissolve parliament, vet everyone properly and start again. I prefer the second option because there are probably more ineligible members yet to be discovered in the whole parliamentary circus show.
fish head
15th Aug 2017
4:59pm
This situation has got totally out of hand. How many other people in Australia were born here, raised here and have at least one parent who is NOT born in Australia and therefore qualify for dual citizenship? This "eligibility by descent" is a farce. If you want it, claim it if you don't, stiff bikkies.Let the Courts clean this mess up fast.
Redwyne
16th Aug 2017
12:00am
I totally agree with your statement.
Misty
16th Aug 2017
11:29am
Doesn't matter one iota to the rest of us only if you want to be a politician.
Jim
15th Aug 2017
7:00pm
Just seen on the news that there are 5 labor politicians who may also have dual citizenship, are any of our pollies eligible to stand? How can another country determine that a person is a citizen of their country if that person hasn't applied for citizenship isn't it also true that there are some countries that you can't denounce your citizenship, I recall many years ago that the children of Greeks who returned to Greece for holidays where put in the army to do national service, it may have also happened in Isreal, I think the constitution is meant to reflect your allegiance to Australia only and not to any other country, so I am not sure Any of the pollies who have been caught up in this,needed to resign
Misty
15th Aug 2017
7:30pm
I still cannot believe that all pollies didn't check their citizenship status after the first drama with the Greens, that was weeks ago they have had plenty of time to do it.
Needy not Greedy
15th Aug 2017
8:11pm
I bet Baaa naby wouldn't have been so hard on Pistol and Boo Boo if they had been sheep dogs !!!
Chrissy L
15th Aug 2017
8:20pm
I really can't believe this debacle! As a Migrant of over 47 years standing and a naturalized Australian, I would give my all to protect Australia. This does not mean I forget my roots and where I was born and my family, who still live in the UK. My total allegiance is however to Australia. I do not have to renounce my birth Country to prove this. It is what and who I am. It is a part of me and my history. I have sworn my allegiance to Australia and I did that freely, when I became an Australian Citizen.
How often have we heard our Prime Minister say we stand shoulder to shoulder with the UK, New Zealand and heaven forbid America. Yes, we do need to have a good look at our Constitution, it needs to be updated. Much has changed over many years. We are a Country built on Immigration. I wonder if Captain Cook could have stood for Parliament if he had stayed in Oz? We sadly said goodbye to Les Murray this week, a migrant from Hungary, who could not speak English, when he arrived here, but was given a State Funeral this week for his contribution to this Country in Sports Reporting (Soccer) and supporting refugees. If this Government has their way, he would not be allowed to stay here today due to his lack of the ability to write and speak English. Never mind, Political Correctness, what about good old fashioned commonsense? Are we going to go back to WW2 days, where many Australians were interned because they were born elsewhere and yet they would have laid down their lives for Australia. Surely we have moved on since then. For goodness sake, let us get a Leader and a Government that has some commonsense, intestinal fortitude and vision to resolve this debacle. Yes, the Constitution needs reforming urgently before all these Tossers send us mad.
ELAJ711
15th Aug 2017
8:45pm
Federal politicians should be Australian born or at least 30 years of Australian citizenship or if immigrant should have been raised in Australia since infanthood. This should be good only for senators and Parliamentarians but they could not run for Prime Minister either buy election or succession of power. A Prime Minister should be a bonafide Australian born citizen. No ifs or but. The primary ruler of the nation should be Australian born and raised since birth and have not denounced any foreign citizenship ever. That should be the politicians law and code of conduct
Oldman Roo
15th Aug 2017
9:16pm
While I am a great believer that a person should have only one nationality and should renounce any other citizenship before they become Australian , the only flaw in Australia is that it,s Queen as head of State does not comply with any of it , making the whole constitution clause about dual citizenship a mockery .
Any Person can only truly swear allegiance to one country and I do not believe there will not be times when dual citizenship is compromised , especially in times of conflicting interests .
So now is the right time to make this country a truly independent nation where newcomers will want to be Australians and not wish to retain an other option to fall back on .
bike30
15th Aug 2017
9:23pm
This law is Liberals doing, on dual citizenship, and now has come back to bite them on the bum.....Barnaby Joyce has admitted to dual citizenship in Parliament, and as such should step aside, or step down from position, this should not have gone to the High Court.....
sayonara
15th Aug 2017
9:23pm
Julia Gillard was born in Barry Wales and not Australia.
Chrissy L
15th Aug 2017
9:54pm
Old Man Roo I think your comment is most likely the only way to resolve this issue. Get the republic vote underway, Get an Australian for our Head of State. Once you apply for Australian Citizenship and it is granted, you thereby renounce automatically your dual citizenship and this debacle will go away and our Government can get on with the job that we elected them for, Governing our Country.
Redwyne
15th Aug 2017
11:58pm
And all the English will go home. They won't renounce their citizenship!
Misty
16th Aug 2017
12:00am
Don't hold your breath on that one.
Kaz
16th Aug 2017
9:27am
Agreed. Become a republic (who wants Charles and Camilla?!)
Redwyne
15th Aug 2017
11:57pm
This would be the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard! He's not a New Zealander, he's Australian. 5th generation Australian.
Kaz
16th Aug 2017
9:25am
Dual citizenship. There was a reason for that rule and if we didn't like it, we needed a discussion on changing it but we didn't until we didn't read it properly and NOW we want to change it. The govt response is hypocritical when the foreign show is on their foot.
FEDUP
16th Aug 2017
4:12am
This is the biggest load of Bovine Excreta that has come to the fore.
Every single one of us, are dual citizens, as our parents, grandparents or Great grandparents, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum trace back to another country.
If you are born in Australia, you are by birth right AUSTRALIAN.
Otherwise the only Australian Citizen eligible to be in the Federal Parliament would be a FULL BLOOD ABORIGINE, at least they are the TRUE AUSTRALIANS.
Redwyne
16th Aug 2017
10:54pm
Well this is a fine mess for sure. So since it's become apparent, after I became an Australian citizen, that my late fathers's sire was an Australian, was I robbed of my money? New Zealand born Australian citizen? All this considering I'm a 4th generation New Zealander. Your statement is so true.
Robi
16th Aug 2017
8:08am
While Barnaby Joyce and Matt Canavan are allowed to remain, the LNP is governing illegally with ineligible members. They should be forced to resign, Canavan replaced and a bi-election held in Joyce's seat. I would like to see an audit of all politicians and if there turns out to be heaps more that are not eligible to be there we should dissolve parliament and hold a new election with Party and independent candidates well vetted beforehand.
Frank
16th Aug 2017
8:32am
I think Penny Wong's involvement needs to be thoroughly investigated.
What's worse?
A small boy not knowing that laws in another country gave him citizenship?
Or an "Australian Politician" colluding with a foreign power to destabilise our government?
Are there no lengths Layba will go to with their petty one upmanship?
Layba were useless in government and even moreso in opposition.
What a disgrace!!
Kaz
16th Aug 2017
9:21am
C'mon Frank stop repeating rubbish. You're better than that. Colluding! Our foreign minister's response was disgusting.
Misty
16th Aug 2017
11:40am
The Coalition response to this has been, frantic, unbelievable rubbish, both from Julie Bishop and George Brandis and as for trying to blame Penny Wong that is scraping the bottom of the barrel. This all resulted from a comment from one Labor colleague to another, albeit in another country, a hypothetical question that never mentioned any politician by name and has blown up OUT OF ALL PROPORTION, the Australian public are not stupid and know when right is right and wrong is wrong and Barnaby should do the right thing and stand down until this is sorted out. To keep making excuses for him and draging this out is only making the Coalition look inept and Malcolm Turnbull weak, even Bob Katter has said as much yesterday.
ex PS
16th Aug 2017
4:03pm
Frank, before you start criticizing give a thought to the despicable behavior of your mates in the Lib/Nats over the Peter Slipper affair.They could not sink low enough in order to destabilize the reigning government. Your mates have not got one shred of moral ground to stand on.
Your mates have gone from one stuff up to another and all the bleating in the world from the sheep that support them will save them.
The foreign ministers pathetic response only goes to prove how desperate her government is.
Misty
16th Aug 2017
6:12pm
Heard today that apparently the Coalition contacted the British Govt about Corey Bernardi , don't know how true it is, I didn't get all the story I think Corey was going to visit there during the election but I don't know for sure, does anyone else know or heard of this?.
Jtee
16th Aug 2017
9:01am
Does that mean he can get a full pension if he moves over there when he retires? I wonder if he voted for the changes that have so negatively affected hundreds of thousands of Australian citizens with the assets test brought in January 2017?
Rainey
17th Aug 2017
12:32am
I think we can be fairly certain he supported those changes, Jtee. But they wouldn't even impact on him anyway. Politicians live in a different world, so it's safe for them to change the rules on a whim and ignore the hurt and injustice they cause to those who work hard to help pay their salaries and retirement perks.
A. N. Onymous
16th Aug 2017
4:20pm
Julie Bishop's contributions to this debate (accusing Labor of colluding with NZ Labor to overthrow Australia's government) have convinced me that her future includes one of the following:
(a) if she is not serious -- entering the theatrical world where she would undoubtedly earn awards, or
(b) if she is serious -- entering a mental facility where her brain could be studied.
CHARLIE
16th Aug 2017
4:41pm
Does this mean that 100's of thousands of Aussie born people need to check their citizen positions and Australia citizenship people also need to check theirs incase future events ie job applications/passports/pensions might be affected
Frank
16th Aug 2017
5:03pm
Yes apparently!
I feel for those Australians who don't know their father albeit his nationality?
I don't think Barnaby has ever been to NZ has he?
Misty
16th Aug 2017
6:16pm
This only refers to politicians at the moment so no one else has to worry it is not a problem for anyone else.
Frank
17th Aug 2017
10:30am
Misty, wouldn't you like to know if another country has , without your knowledge, made you a citizen?
Misty
17th Aug 2017
12:09pm
Frank that would only apply if you had a close relative, parent, ancestor maybe, and anyone can Google this info or ring the relevant Embassy and find out, not rocket science.
Frank
19th Aug 2017
9:42am
So Misty, that guy who single handedly rescued the 2 miners, yep your pin up boy, Billy Shorten, he has denounced his British citizenship hasn't he? You know his father was born in Durham?
Misty
19th Aug 2017
10:29am
Of course Frank, didn't you know of the rigorous rules that apply to anyone in the Labor Party?, Mother, Father, Grandparents are all checked for ties to another country before anyone can be selected.

I cannot understand how anyone, Labor, Coalition, Greens, etc, would not have immediately checked their Citizenship status after the firs 3 were found to be Duel Citizens, surely that would have been top priority and especially in the Coalition with such a slim majority, makes you wonder about the intelligence of some of our politicians and their office staff doesn't it.
Frank
16th Aug 2017
5:05pm
This smelly business has certainly soured Australia's relationship with NZ. They can forget about us paying the Bondi mob unemployment benefits now!
Macca
16th Aug 2017
9:21pm
My grandmother was English and gr gr grandparents. On other side Scottish etc.I was born in Australia and my allegiance is to Australia. So what am I.?Proudy Australian that what!!!Same as Barnaby. If labour try to prove otherwise they will lose what's little of their credibility! !!Or maybe Pennys Wong!!!
Misty
16th Aug 2017
11:07pm
Not LABOR Macca, the High Court will decide and talking of credibility I think it is the Coalition who has lost all credibility over this Barnaby Joyce debacle, even Bob Katter, who always sides with the Coalition, said as much yesterday and today refused to vote with them. If Matt Canavan and the Greens did the right thing and stood down then surely Barnaby Joyce should too until the High Court decision is made.
Redwyne
16th Aug 2017
11:31pm
They already lost credibility, Macca. The politician they contacted in New Zealand is known to be a troublemaker and his own leader has no control over him. The media have also weighed in, as they always do, and blown this out of proportion. It would be nice to see the Opposition party concentrating on real issues and allowing the government to do their job.
Misty
17th Aug 2017
1:29am
Sorry Redwyne but the Opposition are not in government and it is not up to them as to what the Coalition do which is b----r all at the moment, wages are low, the economy is sluggish, debt is rising and what has happened for the first 2 weeks of parliament sitting?, in fighting among the Coalition about Marriage Equality and now this Dual Citizenship debacle, I cannot understand how a supposedly intelligent person who has got to the position of Deputy PM and leader of the Nats did not check and recheck and also get his office to check if there was any possibility of him being a Duel Citizen with him having a parent from a different country, especially after all the fuss over the Greens and Matt Canavan, beggars belief.
Redwyne
17th Aug 2017
1:57pm
Ah Misty. Do I detect you're a TRUE BLUE? How often have you googled to check your heritage? I think you may find there's been many dual citizens in positions of power in Australia before and it's never mattered. But right now, we are in danger of destroying relations with our closest ally and it's quite frankly embarrassing. As a concerned citizen, I care what the Labor Party is up to whether they are leading the government or not. They created the debt problems in the first place.
Misty
17th Aug 2017
4:02pm
And saved Australia from the GFC, one of very few countries to do so, and talking about debt it has increased far more under the Coalition Government.
JoJozep
19th Aug 2017
9:15am
Is the Constitution itself legal or valid?.. Is it time it was revised?

How can it be that the founding fathers who wrote the constitution, most of whom were born overseas, or of UK, Irish, Chinese (gold diggers) parents or grandparents and therefore of dual citizenship, take it upon themselves to dictate to all Australians in future, that they must be "pure" bred Aussies, whatever that means, before entering parliament.

They should have excused themselves from writing this ridiculous drivel in the first place in 1900 if they felt so strongly against dual citizenship. I personally think they (the founding fathers) where extremely racist. For example, where in the original constitution does it give aboriginals equal rights, or even mention they exist.

I think it's time we had a new constitution, giving everyone who permanently lives in Australia at the moment of signing the constitution, equal rights and to be called a true Aussie, irrespective of their colour, religion, nation of birth, allegiances or citizenship.

This would solve many problems like citizenship, refugees, gay rights, pensioner rights, colour of skin, representative parliamentarians, racism, religious freedom, new migrants, settlers, etc., who can make laws, and instal a review process if things start to go haywire again.

This would make millions of australians feel part of this great nation and included as equals.

Also the constitution should be revised say every 10 years or so, provided we have not been annihilated by nuclear war in the meantime.

This way, there would be fairness to all who contribute to making this country great.

By the way, any politician who makes his or his party's law as something binding on all Aussies without first getting the general public's approval, should be thrown out of parliament immediately.
A. N. Onymous
20th Aug 2017
1:55pm
EXTREMELY well said, JoJozep.
Frank
20th Aug 2017
3:03pm
Where in the constitution does it mention Chinese, Indians, Greeks, Italians, Nigerians etc.? I thought we were all Australians singing with one voice? Yes, I agree with the concept of equality but how do you maintain equality by separating people into groups based on their religious beliefs, colour of skin, sex etc?
disillusioned
22nd Aug 2017
10:11am
Had to laugh at the nasty, vehment way Turnbull got stuck into the Greens when their candidates announced their dual citizenship. It reminded me of the prayer of Peter Marshall, who was chaplain to the US Senate years ago -"Lord, today make my words sweet, for tomorrow I may have to eat them!"
Misty
22nd Aug 2017
10:51am
How true, latest opinion polls show majority of Australians want Barnaby Joyce to stand aside pending the High Court decision, I think they should all do this until this matter is cleared up and I also believe Bill Shorten should also show evidence that he has renounced his duel citizenship. I know all Labor people have to go through a stringent questionnaire to enter parliament but I still think it is wise for Bill to produce the evidence as maybe should everyone else who has renounced their dual citizenship.
Priscilla
22nd Aug 2017
1:33pm
What an absolute croc! Everybody down the line somewhere has dual citizenship. They need to just get on with running the country - something neither party seems able to do so they find all these stupid things to take your attention off real issues facing the country.
Misty
22nd Aug 2017
7:44pm
Yes first 2 weeks of Parliament sitting produced nothing.
GrandmaKathleen22
26th Aug 2017
10:39am
They should all stand down until it is sorted. Labor has intensive checks in place whilst others seem to have next to none.
It is a mess!
JoJozep
27th Aug 2017
9:28am
I agree with Kathleen all politicians should resign but with reservations. Who will fill the vacant state? No contender stands out. Politicians performing like spoilt brats are better than nothing, and in any case, their survival instincts soon sharpen their responses.

I personally think anyone who stands for election, then being accepted by the major parties as a serving politician has run the gauntlet, and deserves to lead. The biggest fault all politicians have is when they carry a personal agenda.

This is because those with personal agendas appeal to a minority, eventually the majority wake up to this and demand change. All you have to do is observe different politicians' agendas and see where it leads them.

Few politicians are there to lead for the majority. These are the great ones. If Turnbull paid the same attention to the poor as he does for the rich, he'd make a great leader. If Shorten paid the same attention to the capitalist system as he does for the left, he'd be a great leader. If Xenophon had policies that matter, and important to the majority, he'd be a great leader. If Di Natalie paid more attention to the economy and the cost of living, he'd make a great leader. If Barnaby paid attention to the real issues affecting Australia, he might make a great leader.

No present politician stands out as a leader for all, or has solutions to all the pressing problems. When politicians pick on issues that affect a minority, be it the NDIS, gay rights, immigration, the rich, unions, pensioners, welfare cheats etc., these are diversion tactics to take the heat of what's really needs fixing.

Simple example: The NDIS scheme. Everyone applauds this move for an NDIS scheme. The present Liberal/NCP coalition jumps on the Labour Party's initiative to promote the NDIS scheme, seeing it is popular among a sizeable minority of the population.

Everyone trumpets the benefits of the scheme, till Scotty says no money in the budget because it's a welfare issue. It's not something the coalition would ever plan for in the first place.

The public is hoodwinked into thinking the scheme is an insurance scheme and should cost the government nothing. The disabled think the scheme will cost them nothing and they will receive help and funding for managing their disabilities. The non disabled think it doesn't affect them, so it won't cost them anything. Round and round we go. Because no one wants to fund the scheme, it's doomed to fail. Where is the leadership?

I see people like Tony Burke, Tanya Plibersek (pardon any misspelling) Nick Xenophon, Christine Hanson, Mark Dreyfus as potential leaders because they don't push personal agendas, and are honest and fair, unlike pisspot Abbott, Nowhere man Malcolm, utterly vile Hutton and mad grin slippery Scotty.
Bulla
2nd Nov 2017
4:08pm
Ask those who were robbed, butchered led by Idol Cook & his army ,intend to wipe them off this land so that then they can it their home as settlers because they had nothing wherever they were then living, the most distraught and starving two leg animals.


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