Bob Carr: Australia should halve its migration intake

Australia’s population hit 24 million yesterday.

Australia’s population has officially hit 24 million, having grown by one million in just two years, nine months and two days.

According to Bob Carr, former NSW premier and Australian Foreign Minister, we have arrived at “breakneck population growth”. 

At a press conference in Sydney yesterday Mr Carr, who has expressed concerns about population growth for many years, likened the exponential growth rate in Australia to that of a developing nation, and says it is threatening the Australian way of life.

“We've got a third-world style population growth rate,” he said. “I think the Australian people, if asked, would want immigration slowed.”

Data from the Bureau of Statistics (ABS) says that one Australian is born every one minute and 44 seconds, one Australian dies every three minutes and 24 seconds and one new migrant arrives in Australia every two minutes and 39 seconds.

According to Mr Carr, Australia has the highest rate of population growth of any developed country, rendering ineffective any government policies aimed at improving the nation’s infrastructure and making housing more affordable. He suggested that Australia consider halving its immigration intake to protect the Australian standard of living.

“We can go the way of other cities so that the basic unit of housing is a unit in a high-rise tower, but I would rather think a lot of Australians would believe we've lost something of ourselves.”

Australia’s population has doubled from 12 million in 1968 to 24 million in 2016.

Demographer in the private sector, Mark McCrindle, said that, “It’s no real surprise that infrastructure is playing catch-up because the population has overshot the forecasts on which the planning was based.”

Sydney and Melbourne are said to be taking the brunt of the overpopulation crisis. Projections for Sydney suggest that it will hit a populace of five million this year. By the mid-2050s however, Melbourne is set to become Australia’s most populated city.

Read more at theage.com.au

Read more at smh.com.au

Opinion: A global problem

Australia is a migrant nation – and proud to be.

The Australian way of life (whatever that may mean) isn’t a fixed concept. For me, ‘to be Australian’ means belonging to a largely-undefined and culturally-varied community. Our nation has been forged and transformed by many ethnic and cultural groups. In almost every major city you’ll find areas that markedly belong to a particular community with migrant roots; China Town, Little Italy, the Greek precinct. When these groups arrived, they brought some of their customs with them. Eventually, these customs became assimilated into Australian culture. How natural a part of our (Aussie) lives is it to share a meal at a Chinese restaurant with friends, attend the Spanish street festival held in our city or head to a yoga class on the weekend?

Population growth rates are increasing faster than governments are able to develop infrastructure and public resources. We’ve known this was the case for some time. And as future growth projections continue and environmental concerns increase, the global fear that the world is going to run out of food, water and space is heightening.

But is curbing migration really the key to slowing Australia’s population growth? It would probably help. However, if we’re serious about ensuring that the nation can provide for all Australians, now and long-term, then more drastic measures are needed.

Many factors have contributed to overpopulation around the world. Due to advances in medicine and improved living standards, we are having more healthy babies than ever before. What’s more, those babies are living longer. According to the ABS, since the turn of the century, average life expectancy has increased from 76.6 for men and 82 years for women, to 80.3 and 84.4 years respectively. We find groups migrating, looking for homes in places other than those of their birth. Migration, put simply, is a by-product of either desire (choosing to live elsewhere) or necessity (seeking asylum).

The current global population sits at 7.3 billion. According to United Nations projections, Earth will be home to 9.7 billion people by 2050.

There are currently 24 million people in Australia. We’re stuck with that number now. We can curb migration, sure. But those people still need to live somewhere. Overpopulation isn’t an Australian problem, it’s a global problem. As far as I can see (and as bleak as this may sound) there’s only one way we’re really going to curb growth: slow the rate at which we continue to bring people into the world. It’s as complex and simple as that.

Does overpopulation in the world concern you? What do you think Australia (and the world) should do about the issue? Is curbing migration the key?





    COMMENTS

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    Mysteryman
    17th Feb 2016
    10:21am
    Overpopulation is the elephant in the room. No one wants to talk about it, but an open discussion would go a long way to solving a lot that ails the world at the moment.
    biddi
    17th Feb 2016
    12:46pm
    Right, Mysteryman. When do you ever hear a polly mention over-population? I think Bob Carr and Dick Smith should form an alliance.
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    1:25pm
    Mysteryman, biddi, everyone else, and Bob Carr,

    before getting your knickers in a knot, go to YouTube and have a look at this documentary.

    DON'T PANIC — Hans Rosling showing the facts about ...
    https://www.youtube.com › watch
    Old Man
    17th Feb 2016
    5:06pm
    Mysterman, I agree with biddi, I have never heard of overpopulation as being a problem. I have heard people say we have too many immigrants, not enough immigrants, too many refugees, not enough refugees but never have I heard the call for stopping "overpopulation". I hear we will reach 40billion by mid century yet, still, no hint of overpopulation. I am not a smart man so can some clever person out there please tell me what the correct population should be for our great land.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    6:41am
    Old Man, it might be true that overpopulation isn't a problem, but rapid growth is. A business might have the potential to grow to have 200 branches and 10,000 employees, and that's fine, but if it grows too fast, it goes broke because the revenue growth comes well AFTER the investment to expand and the higher overheads that result from expansion. In simple speak: you have to put out before you take in. Putting out has to be limited to a given proportion of what you will take in over a limited period of time after putting out, or you simply don't have the money to cover operational costs (which is why many businesses sell shares to the public to fund expansion).

    The problem Australia has is that the growth has been way too fast and Governments can't keep up with the need for infrastructure and social support. The immigrants who are coming in, and the babies being born, might, hopefully, one day pay enough tax to be of benefit to the nation, but initially there is a huge cost to provide the infrastructure to support this much larger population and the new residents aren't contributing enough to cover that cost.

    We have to slow the growth. The deficit may not be entirely - or even substantially - due to immigration (though refugee influx is definitely imposing a high cost), but it is contributing to the problem and it will continue to drive higher debt unless we slow it down.
    Roo
    17th Feb 2016
    10:31am
    Bob Carr is so right. I'll be voting for the Sustainable Australia Party if the others make no allowance for this huge problem. It's a big reason for my children not being able to afford a house, overcrowding in hospitals, schools, on the roads, etc. Very soon it won't be a nice country to live in. New Zealand is looking attractive for many reasons!
    maxchugg
    18th Feb 2016
    1:04pm
    I agree with Roo, and for possibly the first time in my life, I also agree with Bob Carr.
    The problem with immigration is that we have repeatedly received clear warnings that, to quote Sheikh Muhammad Ayed from the Daily Mail of 16/2/2016, "Muslims should use the migrant crisis to breed with European citizens and conquer their countries." And, "When we have bred with them we will trample them underfoot."
    Despite Europe accepting a mass intake of refugees, this is not done out of charity, but obtaining workers, he claimed. And it is "a meritorious act to move to a new land in order to bring Islam.
    Apologists argue that Sheikh Ayed does not speak for Islam, but others have made identical claims, Gaddaffi a considerable time ago, and Abu Imran is saying the same thing on the following link:
    http://conservativevideos.com/belgian-muslims-we-believe-sharia-will-dominate-worldwide/
    Salem Ben Ammar is perfectly clear that Islam and democracy are incompatible in the following link:
    http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/muslim-writer-explains-why-islam-and-democracy-are-incompatible-47245/
    For a democratic country to continue to accept refugees who wish to replace a way of life which provides peace, prosperity and a high standard of living with a system in line with the one they are fleeing simply makes no sense.
    The only refugees we should accept from the Middle East are those who are Christians, the most persecuted group, and also the most likely to accept our way of life and integrate peacefully.
    libsareliars
    19th Feb 2016
    2:25pm
    I agree with Roo and maxchugg.
    The Bronze Anzac
    17th Feb 2016
    10:57am
    Yes, you are correct Amelia, more drastic actions are needed. With regards to Australia, we need to re-introduce "selective immigration", which must be related to our current population & future projections. We need to dramatically reduce our current increase to a sustainable level, then work on a selective immigration policy. It can, & will work, provided our wonderful politicians take their heads out of the sand. The first step to solving a problem is to admit you have one.
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    11:16am
    Why do we need more people? Who wants to live a small box in the city? Why?
    Luchar
    17th Feb 2016
    11:33am
    Mick,
    One of the reasons we need more people is to have a larger workforce who will enter the workforce and pay more taxes to help pay our bills. Currently the percentage of the population paying no tax at all, or who pay no nett tax, is becoming ridiculously small. This is why I agree with "The Bronze Anzac's" call for "selective immigration". What I would like to see reduced is the number of occasions on which we have to listen to lectures from Bob Carr. This is a man who embraces China while constantly criticising the only democracy in the Middle East.
    Luchar
    17th Feb 2016
    11:36am
    Correction! Should read "...is becoming ridiculously large."
    Gwen46
    17th Feb 2016
    7:16pm
    Completely agree. We DO need "selective immigration" and LESS Immigration ! Just read a report referring to Muslim births in Sydney far ahead of any other births. It is estimated that we will indeed be a Muslim country in the future. We are a large country by land mass, but not a large percentage is habitable. For goodness sake let common sense prevail and stop the endless influx into this country !
    marls
    17th Feb 2016
    8:59pm
    true the immigrants that are coming now 97% will never work a day in their life
    marls
    17th Feb 2016
    8:59pm
    true the immigrants that are coming now 97% will never work a day in their life
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    11:01am
    Population growth is an economic model so that we have ever increasing prosperity. Business loves it. Despite the fact that the planet is finite we have vested interests pushing more growth. The result will continuing collapse in eco-systems, a monoculture, falling living standards, global warming and eventually collapse. But who cares unless business prospers because that is what silences objective and scientific opinion.
    Patriot
    17th Feb 2016
    11:59am
    Money based economic models are blatant lies.

    If we are to survive as human being we MUST start building a "Resource Based" economy!
    Happy cyclist
    17th Feb 2016
    12:10pm
    All true in my opinion Mick and you forgot to add that the endless quest for ever increasing share prices and dividends is hugely detrimental for the planet in the long run.
    Tom Tank
    17th Feb 2016
    1:42pm
    Good comments here and the basic problem is really that of being a Capitalist world. Capitalism needs an ever growing demand in order to deliver ever increasing profits. It needs more money being spent on goods, whether those goods are actually needed or not.
    Please note I am not preaching Communism as that doesn't work either.
    What the World needs is to break the shackles of being run on economic grounds but to be run for and on behalf of the community at large.
    Essentially Capitalism is killing the World through over exploitation of natural resources and of cheap labour.
    wally
    18th Feb 2016
    12:00pm
    When it comes to "Modelling" for economic predictions (or about global warming and climate change), it always appears that the results of the modelling exercise reflects what whoever commissioned the said modelling exercise wants it to say.

    It is sort of like the "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, Whos's the Fairest of Them All" chant. If the mirror gives the "wrong" answer, "Crash" and a new mirror is consulted that will produce the required result.

    When two or more groups decide to commission separate and different modelling exercises to predict the same future, you might get different and conflicting conclusions. So who is right and who do we believe? And who is going to trust the Mirror to tell the truth, anyway, considering who is asking the question in the first place.
    Thumper88
    17th Feb 2016
    11:04am
    Spot on Bob, in recent time China has lifted its allowable births per couple to three, the rate of births was risen for economic reasons. If more people is the answer to economic growth then the world monetary funds need to reassess how financial growth is calculated, because like a vermin plague, this theory is going to self destruct. If the people who know or should know, took the amount of energy and money consumed on trying to find another planet for us to over populate and create environmental carnage was allocated to saving what we already have and know, then realistic targets for food growing, water storage and populations could be set.
    MICK
    17th Feb 2016
    11:14am
    It's coming. No mistake about that.
    JAID
    17th Feb 2016
    11:14am
    No matter what any individual may feel about immigration, right or wrong, nice or ugly, adjustment of the rate of immigration into any country (short of invasion) is entirely the prevail of that countries citizens. For the most part, australian rates have hovered around a level determined by national concensus quantified only by the level various governments have permitted under their delegation.

    This is a debate integral to our existence; one we are always having whether vocalised or not.

    Mr. Carr's views are well conceived as are others, we can quietly contemplate and reach concensus.

    No matter what the changing outcome of our thoughts on immigration it is not a matter which in any way pertains to or deals with world over-population. Population levels and desired conditions are themselves (excepting unexpected violent upheaval) a matter of concensus where lack of knowledge only weakens validity.

    We do not all seek the same things or need the same things, therefor there can be population granularity with relative satisfaction. Yet, there are considerable dissatisfactions in the world of value real enough that it can be said that conditions are inappropriate to human and world well-being. There is also quite glaring unlikelihood of either bridging those or even of maintaining conditions.

    The trickle of relief against that dissatisfaction or inappropriateness which Australia can accommodate offers no solution. Knowledge, understanding and world-wide action to bring it to the coalface is vastly more important.

    17th Feb 2016
    11:16am
    About time immigration was curbed. One would think Al Grassby was still the Minister for Immigration with the way all the deadbeats, lowlifes, and criminals are being allowed to take up residency here. God help us!
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    2:55pm
    The number of permanent migrants is decided by the government each year. Here arethe intake numbers for 2014 2015 from the Dept of Immigration website


    "Australia’s 2014-15 Migration Programme.

    A total of 190 000 places make up Australia’s 2014-15 migration programme, as announced by the Minister for Immigration and Border Protection on Budget Day.

    Breaking down the numbers, next year’s programme planning levels comprise:

    128 550 places for skilled migrants, including employer sponsored, general skilled and business migrants

    60 885 places for family migrants sponsored by family members in Australia

    565 places for special eligibility migrants, who include former permanent residents who have maintained close business, cultural or personal ties with Australia.

    The migration programme is set by government annually and lists the planning levels for permanent migration to Australia. The migration programme benefits Australia economically, through addressing immediate and long-term skill shortages in the workforce, and socially, through the reunification of families."
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    3:57pm
    What's that Mygasheater? No category for "deadbeats, lowlifes, and criminals "? I wonder where Fast Eddie got that idea from then.
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    6:33pm
    Rod63,

    The deadbeats,low life's and criminals started coming here in boats a couple of hundred years ago and have been reproducing ever since.
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    7:44pm
    Mygasheater. The numbers you provide add up to 190,000 in total. But "illegal immigrants/so-called refugees" are not specified in any of the categories. ???
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    7:44pm
    Mygasheater. The numbers you provide add up to 190,000 in total. But "illegal immigrants/so-called refugees" are not specified in any of the categories. ???
    marls
    17th Feb 2016
    9:02pm
    fast eddie
    so true we are allowing all the dead beats coming into our country the more evil and barbaric they are the more out govt bows down to them and give them what they want and any expense we have have people coming here that are allowed to have 4 wives and all in dept housing and all on welfare
    Mygasheater
    18th Feb 2016
    12:06am
    niemakawa,
    The number refugee places for 2015 was 6000. These are people who came from refugee camps.

    If the those people you refer to as "illegal immigrants/so - called refugees" are not defined on the government website.

    Are you talking about visa overstayers such as UK, Irish, US backpackers, visitors and tourists? Asylum seekers come into two categories, those who arrive by boat and those who arrive by plane.
    As the boats have been "stopped" none can have arrived by boat. As for those who arrive by plane and then claim asylum the numbers don't seem to be available.

    It would be difficult to predict how many of the above categories will overstay their visas or how many will claim asylum. The numbers are not listed on the departments website. Perhaps you could write to Peter Dutton requesting these numbers.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    7:20am
    It would seem the skilled migration program is a failure. Unemployment among skilled migrants and their families is 30% higher than for the population as a whole.

    The unemployment rate among skilled migrants is much higher than for the rest of Australia, but worse than that is the fact that they partners and kids come with them and are unemployed. Only 32% of ''secondary immigrants'' coming through the skilled migration program find work.
    Charlie
    17th Feb 2016
    11:20am
    I have been looking at a lot of information on U-tube, about the refugee crisis in UK and Europe. It seems they have thousands of people streaming into Europe from Africa and Syria, thinking they are going to some Utopia where everything is easy, free and good. Kind of like the Muslim version of the promised land. When they find it is not what they expected, they cry racism.

    The high standard of living we enjoy here in Australia is because of the laws, discipline and the standards we live by, there is nothing magic about this country. Early settlers living in the colonies wrote accounts of Australia compared to England and after reading them one can only come to the conclusion that life was tough.
    To maintain our high standard of living we need to control the intake of migrants and have them understand how we live so well. We don't want them demanding the lifestyles that have destroyed their own country, because they will destroy Australia as well.
    stupidgalah
    17th Feb 2016
    11:21am
    First time I have ever agreed with anything Bob Carr has ever said.
    Will the politicians listen........Not very likely.......
    Sevi
    17th Feb 2016
    3:52pm
    stupidgalah, that's two of us then, wholeheartedly agree with you

    17th Feb 2016
    11:21am
    Bob Carr is right, and it's way past time for the government to recognize and act on the problem. This government has, instead, attacked retirees for living too long and not being financially independent (an unrealistic expectation of most given living conditions during their working lives). The government's answer seems to be to slash retiree living standards, disability pensioners' living standards, and health and education expenditure - not a satisfactory response!

    Yes, we should curb immigration - drastically. We should also look at the question of whether or not it's feasible to continue to encourage and subsidize IVF when we have an overpopulation problem. I'm deeply sympathetic to women who want to be mothers but can't conceive, but I have also spent time in the neo-natal intensive care wards and seen the sad results of SOME unnatural conceptions, birth at an advanced age, conception despite known risks, etc. There may be vast numbers of healthy babies coming into our world, but there are also far too many unhealthy babies who will place a huge burden on our welfare system in years to come - and who are already straining our health budgets.

    We have to balance empathy and compassion with common sense and a healthy focus on self-preservation. Otherwise, say goodbye to any hope of an enjoyable lifestyle and healthy society.
    musicveg
    17th Feb 2016
    2:29pm
    Yes there needs to be a balance, I for one can't understand why women you can't have children don't adopt, but then I only had one child and what do I know? Maybe IVF seekers should only be able to have one child? And then they can adopt after experiencing childbirth. I always thought IVF was unnatural and playing with nature would result in sicker children with more disabilities.
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    7:37pm
    musicveg,

    I agree, playing with nature is unnatural. All medicines and drugs should ceased to be given as they interfere with nature. The old and the sick should be left to die naturally. No medical intervention of any sort. Break your hip, too bad, it heals by itself or the person dies. Ruptured appendix, no surgerical interference, it is unnatural.

    No selective breeding of livestock or crops, all should be stopped as it is not natural. The same goes with weather forecasts. If a severe storm or a cyclone comes through, let people die. No more mucking about with nature.
    kev888
    17th Feb 2016
    11:28am
    feast or famine. When rabbits face famine they automatically abort, survival of the species. When humans face famine they multiply destroy everything them die. I guess one rabbit in the hat is better than a multitude of fornicating humans in a world of trans continental expectations and new habitations .
    hmmm
    17th Feb 2016
    11:29am
    Doesn't seem that long ago that Peter Costello said those immortally stupid words, one for mum, one for dad, and one for Australia, then brought in the baby bonus. This was received with open arms MAINLY by the bogan community.
    It would therefore seem that the first thing we need to do is remove such a bonus.
    musicveg
    17th Feb 2016
    2:32pm
    The baby bonus is like a gift from heaven for immigrants, notice how many children they have? I never got the baby bonus and only had one child, I was broke, homeless and with no car, but I managed on the parenting payment and a housing bond loan, then eventually got a car loan, paid it all off slowly and fed and clothed my son well. No need for baby bonus, would save the country heaps on money.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    2:18am
    And lets not forget that not only the bogans but also the muslims breed like cockroaches so the problem already exists 'in house' without the need for extra unskilled immigrants.
    ndibs
    17th Feb 2016
    11:39am
    As someone who grew up with "They're a weird mob" and enjoyed being around the author (John O'Grady), I find the generalisation of Bob Carr's comment somewhat abhorrent.
    What we more likely need to consider is are these people an investment or not? and
    what is the expected ROI?
    Can they integrate into Australian Society or not?
    The old DIMIA system had a means of recovering immigration costs - are these immigrants being pursued when they default or is the system still there?
    Immigrants need to be given a deadline by which they obtain AU citizenship (including English language) or leave.
    Immigrants with an unsociable past or those who exhibit unsociable behaviour prior to citizenship need to leave.
    Any non-AU citizen convicted of or having a criminal offence in their history, should leave.
    Those who have immigrated and spread hate for Australian Society should have Australian Citizenship voided and promptly leave (might need to exempt those who are All-Black supporters).
    Those born & bred Australians who spread hate for migrants should be charged and held accountable.

    I commend the officers in the front line of our Department of Immigration for their efforts and how they deal with the difficulties of their job and gleaning the evidence necessary for acceptance of these people.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    3:53pm
    ndibs, "Any non-AU citizen convicted of or having a criminal offence in their history, should leave". Let's see... hmmm... that will bring Australia's population down by 2.4 million or more and gets a lot of indigenous people out of Australia.
    "Heil, the new fuhrer of Australia".
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    11:47am
    Curb migration. That's just what I said to the missus, back in 1788.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    3:45pm
    and they have been trying that for over 200 years...poor sods.
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    6:35pm
    Yeah, I dunno why they just don't go back to where they came from.
    maggie01
    17th Feb 2016
    11:49am
    Every one is agreeing that we have a problem but not offering any suggestions for solutions, why don't we follow the Chinese solution, that is the whole world (all countries) have only one child for each family for a generation, I realize I haven't thought this through, but I would like to know everyone's opinion. We have to do something!
    Not Amused
    17th Feb 2016
    2:31pm
    Educated, mostly white Australians are increasingly deciding on one child, or at most, two. These parents are intelligent enough to know they can afford to give a small family their time and a reasonably good future. We are being over-populated by immigrants who think they are on easy street with diminishing taxpayer benefits afforded them over decades. They don't speak English, don't work, don't assimilate and breed like rabbits. Why not restrict immigration to English speaking professionals already trained for jobs that already exist? For couples who do not have children at all, there will need to be new social support structures for managing their loneliness in old age after a spouse dies. We have to look forward and look after our own. 24 million is enough.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    3:38pm
    Whoa! Not Amused...there a lot of immigrants from India, Sri-Lanka and China who are more educated , more intelligent and speak better English than your average Tom, Dick,Harry, Joan Trish and Mary. Yes, it's true some religious people have this thing about multiple marriage and seven kids per marriage so they breed like rabbits or rats. But, we also have a very increasing problem with Joan, Trish and Mary choosing to be single mothers who have one or two children. Believe me 24 million in Australia will grow to 240 million in the future. Australia needs to follow Israel and Saudi Arabia how to turn the desert in to oasis for agriculture and industry. Australia has enough land for 240 million but it needs to develop that land in to sustainable livable land.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    2:24am
    What we need to do is drop all the payments for those that breed, no child allowances, child care, no education allowances etc etc., if you can't afford them then don't have them!

    17th Feb 2016
    11:50am
    Hey this is simple.

    Australia is full. We need to massively cut immigration AND the birth rate.
    biddi
    17th Feb 2016
    12:51pm
    I'm with you, Barak.
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    2:59pm
    190,000 permanent migrants a year is hardly massive.

    Of those 128,550 are skilled migrants, Drs, nurses, teachers, skilled tradesmen, etc. I guess we really don't need them.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    3:21pm
    Australia is full of ' Oz rednecks' this we know and pathetic parliamentarians, this we know also. We also have very good citizens who just need to get on the same train with the same common aspirations. As for population growth we are nothing compared to the management of over a billion people in India and China.More research is required!
    jackie
    17th Feb 2016
    11:54am
    I agree with Bob Carr. Ever since the pill, western society has progressed thanks to population control but non western societies want their cake and eat it too. We do not need more migration even the pre settlement indigenous peoples of this land didn't breed in plague proportions because they had the common sense to know it was bad for their environment.
    Happy cyclist
    17th Feb 2016
    1:32pm
    Yes, Jackie, the indigenous owners of this country knew exactly how to maintain it. They did so for at least 40,000 years. It took us to stuff it up when we immigrated without their consent. And just for the record, it is the western countries which consume most resources and produce most rubbish and pollution on a per capital basis. Not the 'non western societies', many of whom have probably never even had cake.
    Happy cyclist
    17th Feb 2016
    1:33pm
    correction: I meant per capita of course
    musicveg
    17th Feb 2016
    2:38pm
    Indigenous people also kept their race pure by killing disabled babies etc. Only the fittest survived.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    3:11pm
    Happy cyclist, I think, the expression is, 'the indigenous custodians of this land', not owners, Not a nation that governed this land but tribes that lived like nomads moving from place to place according to the season within their established territory. If I missed out on the word 'First' it's because I doubt they were the first.
    KSS
    17th Feb 2016
    3:48pm
    HS if you are going to criticise other for 'incorrect' usage of expression, then you should also know that there were/are many Indigenous peoples from different countries or lands all of which are encapsulated in the area we now call Australia. The Indigenous people are not a homogenous lot roaming the lands at will and without paying respect to the next nation they might encounter and whose lands they may cross, each People have different languages and customs. True they didn't/don't see themselves as 'owners of the land' in the way peoples of other nations do - Australians for example - but as custodians.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    5:09pm
    . KSS "if you are going to criticise other for 'incorrect' usage of expression"

    The correct expression is 'others for' or ' other than..."

    The previous and the latter comments are not criticisms but educated opinions.

    In the previous comment I stated "I think" I did not state "I know" I said ' tribes" (a nation means tribe) because of the small pockets of the communities. I said 'nomads' as in the meaning of people who move from place to place "according to the season' All tribes did this whether it was for hunting or grazing.

    Homogeneous means (1) of the same or similar nature, and (2) uniform in structure or composition. Its corresponding noun is homogeneity. Homogenous, whose corresponding noun is homogeny, is a little-used biological term whose old sense has mostly been lost.

    Welcome to the modern world where correct expressions mean a lot. But, don’t be so sensitive I also make errors from time to time.
    dezyna
    17th Feb 2016
    11:55am
    It is altogether pointless having this discussion. Whoever is in Government will do exactly what the United Nations tells them to do. The most corrupt anti-Israel organization on the planet and it rules Australia. It's how we are being destroyed by political correctness. PC did not originate in Australia but quickly became the darling child of Parliament. Now we have thought police, big brother and nanny to contend with. Your opinion doesn't matter, the UN will continue to control both foreign and domestic policy. Now all Aussie pollies want to be on any UN panel when voted out. It isn't going to change with an election or a public outcry.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    3:04pm
    Did anyone suggest that UN is corrupt? That it prostitutes itself like a whore?
    dezyna
    17th Feb 2016
    5:52pm
    Does anyone believe it isn't?
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    6:00pm
    It's not.
    dezyna
    18th Feb 2016
    12:04pm
    Rod63, research man, research.
    PlanB
    17th Feb 2016
    11:55am
    I also agree with Bob Carr on this, yes we are a BIG country BUT it is only viable to live in the coastal areas and a little to the west, plus we do not have the water needed to sustain a big population.
    We also do not have the jobs either, thanks to all the industry going off shore.
    Patriot
    17th Feb 2016
    11:57am
    Why grow the population - we cannot find jobs for ALL of us now!

    Have we - the Australian people - been consulted and have we agreed to the MASSIVE intake of migrants every year???
    Jannie
    17th Feb 2016
    12:08pm
    Agree Patriot, not only that we dont have enough jobs and they the immigrants go on benefits from centrelink BUT we also do not have the infra structure to handle the mass invasion. Look at the hospitals they are at breaking point and go to the dental hospital for specialist treatment the wait list is 36 months.
    Law enforcers are laughed at and our legal system is too lenient.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    2:58pm
    Patriot, all the people have to do is vote.The Party with the majority of votes deem that their voters gave them the right not to consult with the public or to agree with the public. The voters gave that Party the right to govern the way the Party deems the country must be governed. All voters should be very careful whom they vote for. Unfortunately many voters are bloody lazy, naive and ignorant people who just don't do their research properly, they depend on the populist trend with a lot help from biased journalism.
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    6:55pm
    Patriot,
    190,000 migrants in 2014/2015 is hardly a "massive" number.

    Jannie,
    Of that 190,000 a 128,550 are skilled migrants such as Drs, nurses and dentists. Without theses skilled professionals, the health care system, public and private, would not be able to function. There would be far less Drs in rural areas to the point that many rural hospitals would have to close.

    The waiting time at the dental hospital would be even longer.

    Over the last twenty five years, successive governments have put the education of health professionals beyond the reach of many people by progressively increasing university fees. Australia has not been educating enough professionals for many years. The shortages will only get worse.

    But if skilled migrants are required .....
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    7:21am
    It would seem the skilled migration program is a failure. Unemployment among skilled migrants and their families is 30% higher than for the population as a whole.

    The unemployment rate among skilled migrants is much higher than for the rest of Australia, but worse than that is the fact that they partners and kids come with them and are unemployed. Only 32% of ''secondary immigrants'' coming through the skilled migration program find work.
    Glen48
    17th Feb 2016
    12:11pm
    Meanwhile China keeps buying OZ real estate and they don't need to move here...
    Not Amused
    17th Feb 2016
    2:32pm
    They will move here. That is one reason we absolutely must say - 24 million is ENOUGH.
    PlanB
    17th Feb 2016
    4:09pm
    Yes Glen and that is a REAL worry, why the hell this is allowed to happen I do not know, one of the most stupid moves that has been allowed !
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    7:01pm
    But it's ok for the British, Americans etc to buy up Australia.

    There was this fella, whatshisname, Geoff, Lough, aaahhhhh, Gough.Gough, you know Gough Whitlam, back in the past, long time ago, got into government with a policy of "buying back the farm".
    Marsey
    17th Feb 2016
    12:37pm
    Good for you Mr Carr! Everyone else is so scared to say anything at all about this topic. Our welfare bill is horrendous, people don't need to work with all this welfare. The immigration is not working. They all live in the one area and most times they buy houses and don't live in them. Our hospitals and schools are over crowded and the roads are ridiculously busy.
    bebby
    17th Feb 2016
    12:57pm
    Marshy, I agree. It is about time we spoke up and let the politicians know what obviously they cannot comprehend. In the region I live at least 60 percent of businesses are owned by new arrivals. They then employ people of their own country of origin, and Australian born young people cannot get a job. The roads and trains are overcrowded and let's not even think about hospitals. I agree with Bob Carr, enough is enough.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    2:41pm
    bebby...ain't that the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...but, Australians felt the same way with post-war migrants coming from Europe in to Australia after 1945...however, most of these migrants were skilled and made a huge contribution to the development of Australia without imposing their traditions and religions on the culture in Australia. Many of these migrants aspired ' not to rock the boat' unlike some unskilled migrants of yesterday and today who intentionally have.
    kev888
    17th Feb 2016
    12:38pm
    The government needs to consider selling whats left of Australia buy the so-called refugees boats load us all on get a loan and buy and populate Syria .... I hear theirs cheap real estate there.
    biddi
    17th Feb 2016
    12:44pm
    Can't understand people breeding like rabbits when we are told repeatedly about world
    over-population. Don't they care how it is going to be for their grandkids? Animals are losing
    habitats thanks to over-population. It's stuffed.
    KSS
    17th Feb 2016
    12:59pm
    biddi: "Don't they care how it is going to be for their grandkids?"

    Well no they don't. Its all about "me" and what "I" want and "I want it now!"
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    2:28pm
    Who said at the beginning of times ?...'go out in to the world and multiply'...so many people took it literally and some still do...
    PlanB
    17th Feb 2016
    4:14pm
    I can not understand people having more than one Kid -- how the hell ca they afford to have more -- in fact these days I would not be having ANY kids with the world the way it is now. On the brink of WW3 and the drugs and crime the way it is.

    Anyone watch 4 corners on Monday night ?
    Charlie
    17th Feb 2016
    5:48pm
    I keep wondering if Australia the dry continent will ever have enough drinking water to support high populations. Already the Murray-Darling river system is flat out providing enough water for irrigation of crops. Look at what one person uses for showers, flush toilet and drinking and growing food. We come to what some scientists might call our water footprint.
    Aggie
    17th Feb 2016
    12:48pm
    For once I agree with Bob Carr. 40 or so years ago Australians voted to increase migrant intake. This must be cut back now. There are so many coming that there is not the infrastructure for them any more. The coastal fringe where people may live well is filling. The number of new estates being built is enormous. People have to live somewhere.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    1:00pm
    Tell me more about Australians voting to increase migrant intake 40 years ago.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    2:01pm
    50 years ago the Australian manufacturing industry was growing and thriving and it made sense to bring in skilled labour from overseas. 25 years ago (or more) the manufacturing industry began to dwindle with many moving to manufacture from overseas because of cheap labour, no extortion and intimidation from the Australian Unions. Other manufacturers shut the business down and moved on to other areas of the market or simply retired. The impact? High unemployment, cheap quality goods at high prices. Billions of tax payer dollars were sunk in to the ailing Australian motor vehicle industry by the previous governments with their subsidies, alas, to no avail. Now Australia does not have a motor vehicle manufacturing industry it's all imports including unskilled refugees. But, I do not recollect having a vote for more migrants. Perhaps Bob meant that such voting was done inside the parliament.
    KSS
    17th Feb 2016
    12:56pm
    Maggie01 says: "Every one is agreeing that we have a problem but not offering any suggestions for solutions". Ok then here goes:
    * In the past, war was a great population reducer. Today we get all upset over one or two deaths in a skirmish. We need to stop being so squeamish and do the job properly. We could reduce the global population by hundreds of thousands at worst and hundreds of millions instantly if we made an effort.
    * Stop pouring our scarce health dollars into 'saving' those who should be let go: the early born neonates who would have died naturally just a few years ago, the very frail, sick and elderly with no quality of life, who expect to be 'saved' by medicine, constant research and development of new technologies that are ever more expensive and afforded by few but expected by all.
    * Remove all medical services for those who engage in activities hazardous to health e.g. smoking, drug taking, over eating/obesity, alcohol abuse, and stop forcing them to live a life longer then they intend. Allowing people to kill themselves is nothing more than "freedom". Who are we to judge their choices?
    * Natural disasters are just that - natural - and could easily reduce the population by millions if only we would just stop rushing to their aid every time it rains (or doesn't), floods, shakes or burns.

    So there you go, 4 'solutions' to overpopulation. After all the acceptance of migration is not all about the food they cook, the festivals they celebrate, the work they do (that Australians refuse to do), the money they spend, the 'cultural-diversity' or the 'transformation by ethnic and cultural groups" and so on. Its all about the houses they need, the jobs they take, the cars they drive, the air and beaches they pollute, the children they breed, the land they take to build on, the trees chopped down and the bronzed Aussie they usurp isn't it?

    What? You don't like these ideas? Gee I wonder why? No so easy then is it?
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    2:22pm
    Why not just legalize Euthenasia? After all the government is so concerned by people in retirement and blatantly intimidating Aged Pensioners to the point of slow torture and quicker death. I am sure a lot of Aged Pensioners would consider a quick exit for the sake of a 'permanent retirement ' and not to put up with the torturous BS from the lunatics in parliament.
    musicveg
    17th Feb 2016
    2:47pm
    Euthanasia: gentle, painless death; putting to death in this way, to relieve suffering.

    I know my 79 year old mum already fears dying a slow death in an aged care facility.

    It is only the families of those who want to die this way stopping it from being legal, or is it the fact that the age care homes are another money making machine, especially with the medications they receive.
    Julian
    17th Feb 2016
    1:02pm
    Yet another unwelcome comment from a tax-sucking lefty has-been who is full of self interest and obviously suffering a terminal case of relevance deprivation. We suffered long enough whilst under your so called leadership/economic mismanagement. What would you know about what's good for this country. Please go away and be quiet.
    ndibs
    17th Feb 2016
    1:36pm
    It was interesting to see that as soon as Bob got access to the golden handshake he and that other spawn of uselessness Mike Egan took all that they could get and bought up in New Zealand.

    This was when we finally had him step away from the Premier desk (only to still have to pay him as a advisor to the Premiers until the people of NSW finally woke up to Labor's mismanagement and squander and booted them into retirement).
    Then we see him Phoenix in the Federal arena - we've heard enough drivel from Carr and it makes me bilious just to think that someone might actually listen.
    Lula
    17th Feb 2016
    1:19pm
    Better planning would direct people to areas where there is a desperate need of growth/settlement or reviving of deserted towns. People bring ideas/industry/ways to survive. Australia has plenty of free land. We dont have a problem compared to other parts of the world.
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    1:35pm
    Some regional areas have a unemployment rate of more than 10%. labor's policy is to resettle these migrants in to regional areas.What a sensible idea (NOT) from the Deputy Leader of the Opposition.
    Your idea is to revive deserted towns. Why in hell do you think they became deserted in the first place Lula?
    KSS
    17th Feb 2016
    1:50pm
    "Australia has plenty of free land" Yes and such a shame most of it is uninhabitable confining most people to the outer edges!
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    2:11pm
    Please KSS show me where the 'free land' is. We have Crown land, privately owned land, the original land of the first custodians and Liquorland but...where is the 'free land'?...even your 6 feet underground patch when you die is not free. There's no such thing as free land.
    KSS
    17th Feb 2016
    3:41pm
    HS I was quoting Lula. Please ask her! In my answer I was alluding to the fact that Central Australia is not yet built up or inhabited to the extent of the coastal areas - as I am sure you well understood
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    7:15pm
    Yes people should be directed to areas that need reviving.

    We could start with OAPs, Old Age Pensioners, first, after all they are passed their "use by" date, They don't spend much and so contribute little to the economy. Moving OAPs en masse would free up a lot of houses which would drop the price so young people could afford them,

    Moving them into country towns would bring in new Drs, see a growth in nursing homes, which would bring in nurses, who would bring in their families, which would bring in teachers and there would be a rural "boom".
    HarrysOpinion
    17th Feb 2016
    1:26pm
    "there’s only one way we’re really going to curb growth: slow the rate at which we continue to bring people into the world"
    What concerns me about migration of people in to Australia is the fact that there are segments withing our community that blatantly flaunt the law of, let's call it bigamy, of having 1 legal wife and 4 or more illegal wifes'. Now this segment believes in having up 7 children. I am surprised that the author has gone to the trouble of quoting some ABS statistics but has not drawn on the statistics profiling which of the segments of our community is responsible for our rapid population growth compared to the the total entry of migrants in to Australia in the last two years. It is, apparently, only in the last two years that our population has sky rocketed rapidly to the 24 million mark. Was that simply " a politically correct" way of saying "stop breeding like rabbits"?
    Therefore I agree with the author, except I am more direct to point the finger at a segment of our community with some degree of protection in order not to sound like a racist, but simply an observer from what I have heard, read and seen.
    It's a pity that halving migration in to Australia, in this scenario, does make sense. Perhaps under the circumstances a "China policy" of one child per family and single parent may be the way to go and anything beyond foes not attract social welfare. However my biggest concern is that there are some migrants who flaunt the law of having one wife and have 4 or more with a plan of having a total of 28 children or more brought in to this world in Australia on social welfare handouts at the cost to the Australian taxpayer. Mind you, also that, such segments have a 90% unemployment rate on top of social child welfare benefits.
    And that is why I am disappointed with the author for providing very shallow ABS figures and not the in-depth ABS figures to prove or disprove my concern. Just because someone says I am wrong is not good enough. Prove it!
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    7:26pm
    Up to WW2, it was very common for Australians to have large families. Check the size of your grand parents and great grand parents families.

    The size of families decreases with increased levels of education and increased prosperity. Parents with higher levels of education and with higher income have less children.

    Want to reduce the birth rate? Raise the education level of those in lower socioeconomic groups. Better educated people have greater employment opportunities at better paying occupations.

    17th Feb 2016
    1:34pm
    Keep the boats out, tighten immigration requirements (like the necessity of a resident sponsor, ability to speak and write English, NO criminal record, secured employment before entry to name just a few) and you would get FAR LESS dole-seeking, criminally intent, deadbeat lowlifes coming into the country.
    Mygasheater
    17th Feb 2016
    7:28pm
    If your criteria were applied to Australian born people, a significant number would have to deported.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    7:40pm
    If someone is born here they have automatic citizenship.
    KSS
    17th Feb 2016
    9:09pm
    Not unless at least one parent also has citizenship Fast Eddie, unlike in the USA where simply being born there means you can claim citizenship regardless of the parent's status.
    Mygasheater
    18th Feb 2016
    12:13am
    Fast Eddie,

    Except if you are a child born in Australia to asylum seeker parents.
    Phil1943
    17th Feb 2016
    1:36pm
    Hate to admit it but Bob Carr is right. He was right when he said "Sydney is full" and he's right about cutting down on immigration. Australia has lots of room for people but there's neither sources of economic support nor adequate infrastructure for them. At 24 million we've got enough population and really can't handle more.
    And don't ask ex-premier Bob what he did about the growth of population in NSW. His government did so little for transport, health and education that we're still trying to catch up - but with overpopulation we'll continue to stay behind.
    Alexia_x
    17th Feb 2016
    1:44pm
    Has anybody ever heard of birth control?
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    5:32pm
    I have!
    Polly Esther
    17th Feb 2016
    1:54pm
    I for what it is worth reckon they are guessing. Who keeps the statistics on the statistic keepers? Could be 23 million, could be 24 or 25 million. I really don't think they know. There are more illegals in this country than a lot of people realise. The authorities keep finding a clutch of them here and there, and mainly by accident. Anyhow I don't relish the thought of living like ants. The whole planet is overpopulated I believe, my thoughts only.
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    4:17pm
    Not that many illegals here. Not many people overstay their visas. And they have a pretty good idea how many from immigration control at airports and ports.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    4:51pm
    Rod63, you are flying by the seat of your pants. Show proof.
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    5:31pm
    0.2% of the Australian population.

    According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), the majority of people in Australia illegally are visa overstayers, who enter the country legally but remain there after the expiry or revocation of their visa.[2] DIAC estimated that in the period from 1 July 2009 to 30 June 2010, approximately 15,800 people overstayed their visas out of 4.5 million temporary entrants during that period (about 0.35 per cent). As of 30 June 2010, DIAC estimated that the number of visa overstayers in Australia was around 53,900, or 0.2 per cent of the Australian population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_Australia
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    5:55pm
    These figure are ten years old, at best, and have been taken at a time when there has not been the great increase in "refugee" (illegal immigrant) movement which has taken place over the last decade. The figures do not reflect an accurate count of the current situation and are therefor inconclusive for purposes related to this article.
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    6:00pm
    Fast Eddie - refugees aren't illegal immigrants. I expect the number of illegal immigrants has not changed much.
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    6:00pm
    Fast Eddie - refugees aren't illegal immigrants. I expect the number of illegal immigrants has not changed much.
    in2sunset
    17th Feb 2016
    2:04pm
    It is very simple...if you cannot provide adequate services to your own community, don't allow any more in. If I want to have a party, I invite guests and admit the number I can look after. Gate crashers not allowed.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    2:18pm
    Bob Carr is a fool. Immigration builds wealth, not the reverse. We have 24 million in a country the size of mainland USA ie, three and quarter million square miles. Most of our coastline is unpopulated. The only thing that's overpopulated is our parliament.
    PlanB
    17th Feb 2016
    4:22pm
    I guess thats why India and the places there are wealthy is it Paulodapotter, does talk such rubbish
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    6:52pm
    That doesn't make sense. Try English.
    roy
    17th Feb 2016
    7:20pm
    OMG.
    Radish
    17th Feb 2016
    8:02pm
    Most of the country is uninhabitable and everyone wants to live on the coast...Sydney and Melbourne the most popular choice of all new arrivals.
    Brue
    17th Feb 2016
    2:24pm
    We have now reached 24 million. Keep in mind that is not 24 million taxpayers. More than half of that figure are pensioners, children ,disabled pensioners,people on centrelink patments illegal migrants who can't or don't want to speak english and end up on centrelink, very few of the migrants that come here get jobs.Oh yeah, I forgot to mention politicians with their noses in the trough draining the bank. the government is straining to keep up the infrastructure. At the rate we are going Australia is heading for bankruptcy.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    6:53pm
    Research says otherwise, but we all get a dose of calamity at some point.
    red 1
    17th Feb 2016
    2:40pm
    A lot of these people seeking asylum are young men. Why are they not fighting to save their own country for their families?
    musicveg
    17th Feb 2016
    2:51pm
    Exactly
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    6:54pm
    Maybe they can't afford to take the time off.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    7:27pm
    Time off from what, polpot? These deadbeats don't have, nor want, a job.
    Mygasheater
    18th Feb 2016
    12:17am
    Not a lot of work in Alepo just at the moment.
    niemakawa
    18th Feb 2016
    12:32am
    There is quite a lot to be done in Alepo, but the cowardly young men run away instead of fighting for their freedom.
    toot2000 (Sydney)
    17th Feb 2016
    3:02pm
    Up to 190,000 permanent migration places will be available in 2015/16.
    128,550 places for skilled migrants including employer sponsored, general skilled and business categories;
    57,400 places for family migrants sponsored by immediate family;
    565 places for special eligible migrants.

    Australia now has the reputation of being very hard to get into, an acquaintance in the UK
    said immigration put her son through the wringer before he got a visa.

    So I'm not sure if immigration is a good thing or a bad thing, I need more info on the subject, but immigration has certainly helped the UK thrive.
    bebby
    17th Feb 2016
    4:17pm
    toot 2000, just wondering, if the immigrants have helped the UK to thrive, why did the acquaintance's son want to come to Australia? I have been watching the news out of the UK and they are living the kind of life we here in Australia are heading for. Immigration was just what we needed years ago but times have changed.
    PlanB
    17th Feb 2016
    4:26pm
    Years ago migrants used to have to have a job to go to, have a fare back and be of good character and used to have to go through quarantine too -- not any more, they arrive here with stuff all and could have any sickness.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    6:59pm
    People against migration react due to emotive reasons, not for their stated reasons. Every indication anthropolically and economically shows migration is good for countries. Not least of which it broadens the gene pool to improve the intelligence level of the group. We really need that especially among the "keep 'em out" mob.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    7:34pm
    Appledropper, this is even MORE rubbish. Are you a genetic scientist? I really think not. You speak like a drowning man would act - grabbing at straws.
    KSS
    17th Feb 2016
    9:19pm
    PlanB if you are talking about migrants, then I am afraid you are not correct. In order to get a residency visa you must show that you have enough money to support yourself or have someone who will support you for a minimum of 2 years. You are not able to claim Centrelink payments until then if at all. You also have to have an in depth medical assessment which includes blood tests and x-rays. Having an illness or chronic condition is not a barrier to migration itself but there are caps on estimated lifetime medicare which may well result in you not being given a visa to come.

    However, things are very different for irregular arrivals or visa overstayers.
    toot2000 (Sydney)
    17th Feb 2016
    9:50pm
    I think therein lies the problem, we don't know what is required by Immigration today, I suspect it's tougher than it was. We are lucky that well educated and qualified professionals are cracking their necks to come here and they are welcome.

    I can't really see a problem filling the country with bright, intelligent people with uni degrees, they will likely have bright, intelligent children.
    Ronin
    17th Feb 2016
    3:32pm
    No issue with people of other races, religions et al. However I chose to live in Australia because of its predominantly European secular culture which largely espouses western liberal values, and I want to retain that culture. So come here by all means, but integrate and assimilate. And yes, that does mean letting go of some of your own cultural values.

    And then there is the question of how many? Big corporations and Government like big populations - more consumers to buy things, more people to tax, more economic growth. But what do the citizens want? A lifestyle similar to what they have now, with opportunities for their children to buy their own homes and find productive work. Big is not necessarily, or even usually, better.

    I choose to live and work in the wider outskirts of the city. Access to first world amenities but go into the city as seldom as possible. Short drive to the ocean, beaches etc. That lifestyle is being impacted as more and more residential estates are built in the suburbs without the required increase in infrastructure. So, more people? Not for me.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:04pm
    Yeh, if only they could get drunk every Friday and bash the wife and kids when they got home. like real Aussies do. Yeh and exhibit racism like Ronin, then they might be half welcome. Open season on abos, eh Ronin?
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    7:47pm
    Palodopter, with a comment like that I don't think your gears are meshing, mate.
    auzie3136
    17th Feb 2016
    4:04pm
    You are right Mysteryman,We are overpopulated already.We do not have the WATER nor the infrastructure to look after the present population let alone millions more.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:04pm
    OMG!
    auzie3136
    17th Feb 2016
    4:07pm
    I agree, It seems Dick Smith and Bob Carr are the only ones with any sense. biddi
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:06pm
    You misinterpret Dick's rationale. He's not talking about Australia. He's talking about the world. We haven't a problem yet by a long shot.
    roy
    17th Feb 2016
    7:20pm
    OMG.
    Pushkin2
    17th Feb 2016
    4:08pm
    What a lot of bitter fearful misplaced comments. Realise that everyone in this country is an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants, except the indigenous. Everything we see or use in this country was created or introduced by immigrants, including our strong economy, progressive way of life and form of government. These have all have changed over time as we as a nation mature, the new vitality and youthfulness brought about largely by immigration.

    When we pass on (and I am 70 so it won't be long I guess) changes will be made whether we agree or not today by those who survive us, immigrants all. If you want to reference a country without immigrants please look at Japan. Falling population, stagnated society and receding economy - that's not for us I think.
    PlanB
    17th Feb 2016
    4:30pm
    Yes look at Japan now full off Radiation and getting worse by the day, falling population and will fall more as many more come down with cancers, they are threatened with 10 years jail if anyone whistle blows
    Phil1943
    17th Feb 2016
    5:21pm
    Well Pushkin, I'm 73 and an immigrant. Even the indigenous population came here from somewhere else. Nothing wrong with immigrants per se. Australia's a better and more livable place thanks to the immigrants that have arrived over the last couple of hundred years. No disputes there.
    But, and it's a big 'But', we don't have the capacity to feed, house, employ, and provide other needed services for a much bigger population unless we make serious changes to our cities.
    We desperately need to improve our land use, public transport, food supplies - the list goes on. And that's just to take care of the people who are here new. Adding immigrants who arrive without the ability to speak English or any means to employ them is only inviting trouble.
    Many years ago the government tried to foster 'growth centres' that were a reasonable idea and could help accept more population through immigration. So what did we do? We exported far too many jobs and those centres wound up without the intended industries to support them.
    If it is this country's desire to invite more immigrants we should be certain we can give them the same chances we had until we reached what seems to be saturation. Sure, it's better here than Syria or Iraq for them, but not going to be better for Australia unless we plan a lot better than we do now.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:08pm
    Well said Pushkin2. At long last a voice of reason.
    auzie3136
    17th Feb 2016
    4:10pm
    Roo, Your so right but the stupid Pollies walk round with their eyes closed .
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:12pm
    No, they know exactly what's going on. They read us like a book and deal us the hand they think they can sell - like Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan. We are like putty in their hands. It's not the pollies who are stupid. It's us who are and we'll keep falling for the nonsense over and over again (a) because we have short term memories and (b) because we don't live long enough to learn from our mistakes.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    9:00pm
    Pollpopper, you are speaking only for and of yourself. I don't think you know which way is up.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    10:10pm
    Reasoning is beyond your capability Fast Eddie, so there's no point in explanation. Bet you weren't too fast in aptitude in the classroom. I used to teach kids like you.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    10:13am
    Teacher? You can't even spell!!
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    4:22pm
    We are not overpopulated. We need a lot more young people.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    4:28pm
    From where, why, to do what?
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    5:23pm
    Skilled young people from anywhere to grow our economy.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:14pm
    You are certainly right about that Rod63, but you're up against a mind set that hasn't the knowledge or ability to accept that fundamental truth.
    Not a Bludger
    17th Feb 2016
    4:24pm
    Nick off Bob Carr - you are a failed NSW premier and a worse Foreign Minister under the worst government that Australia has ever seen - and you cost we taxpayers a mozza flying yourself and family around the world on my taxes.
    bobby
    17th Feb 2016
    4:25pm
    Curbing the population is the way to go. The taxpayer is being hit too hard by the Federal Government's over generous handouts to migrants.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:15pm
    Thank you Bobby for providing me with an example for what I said to Rod62
    roy
    17th Feb 2016
    7:23pm
    OMG.
    Not a Bludger
    17th Feb 2016
    4:26pm
    Nick off Bob Carr - you are a failed NSW premier and a worse Foreign Minister under the worst government that Australia has ever seen - and you cost we taxpayers a mozza flying yourself and family around the world on my taxes.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:17pm
    Almost totally correct except his government was intelligent compared to the one under Mr Rabbit.
    roy
    17th Feb 2016
    7:22pm
    OMG
    Old Man
    17th Feb 2016
    5:02pm
    Bob Carr has wanted to stop immigration for years but the only reason is that "We're full". If the demographers had been more accurate then the infrastructure may have been able to be geared to the correct figure. Australia has a shortage of skilled tradespeople in some areas and even if we started today to reinvigorate the apprenticeship programs, we will still be three to four years away from filling the gap.

    There are other areas where it is difficult to fill positions and allowing migrants in to fill those gaps is a sensible answer. They will still be paid award wages so it's not a matter of importing slave labor as some unions suggest. 457 visas are a temporary measure but we need a permanent solution.

    Housing is a problem for a number of reasons but the price remains the most contentious. If state governments would allow a release of more land for building, councils stopped overcharging developers and builders more public housing was built it would go a long way to solving the problem. Supply is below demand which in any business means an increase in goods sold so if we oversupply, prices will drop. Councils seem to forget that gouging developers and builders doesn't cost them any money as they pass those costs onto the end buyer. If councils could prove that the figures they charge were justified it would be a different matter.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:18pm
    Very well reasoned Old Man
    particolor
    17th Feb 2016
    9:56pm
    You wont Stop Greed from any angle now ! Its FIRMLY Entrenched ! :-( :-(
    Franky
    17th Feb 2016
    5:10pm
    We need to heal our addiction to growth, rampant growth leads to cancer. No more baby bonus, cut migrant intake and we may just reclaim the lucky country!
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    6:05pm
    The "Lucky Country" era was ended by the Hawke-Keating years when we became a "Banana Republic" country.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:19pm
    Another example to show my meaning Rod63
    roy
    17th Feb 2016
    7:22pm
    OMG.
    Old Man
    17th Feb 2016
    7:51pm
    It's ironic when we use the term "Lucky Country" because when the phrase was coined it actually referred to the fact we were lucky to have achieved so much with the useless successive governments we had endured.
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    10:06pm
    Nothing will change under Liberals or Labor, there is little to distinguish the two. There is an alternative to these 2 main parties AUSTRALIAN LIBERTY ALLIANCE (ALA). A party that is pro-Australian and sees Islam as a serious threat to our Nation. It has a large range of policies, not just on immigration. Vote ALA, for a better Australia.

    http://australianlibertyalliance.org/downloads/ALA_MANIFESTO_OG14001R1.pdf
    Old Man
    17th Feb 2016
    10:42pm
    Sorry niemakawa but Islam is not a serious threat to Australia. A small number of Muslims are a very real danger to Australia and the AFP is getting closer to removing most of the problem. I'm not Muslim.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    10:42am
    Yes, Old Man, and this SMALL number of Musies are spreading their terrorist ideas like the small number of mossies are spreading deadly diseases. They are like A rotten apple in a barrel.
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    6:08pm
    Anyone in their right mind already knows this. About time ALL the mainstream Political Parties accept this and reduce immigration drastically. We need controlled immigration and only allow those who have relevant skills and are educated Western Style and bring economic benefits to this Country. All family reunions should be put on hold or at least only permitted once immigrants have become integrated in our society. That is speak they official language, English, accept our laws and customs and not promote their own "culture" to the detriment of this Country. Mass immigration, mainly Muslims, that is occurring in Europe is causing severe problems for the European people. Germany or more to the point its Chancellor Ms Merkel, gave an open invitation to all who wanted to come. Germany cannot cope, nor can Sweden, France, Greece, Italy, The UK and in most other European countries where muslims have arrived en masse. A total disaster all round. 90% of the more than 1.5 million muslims who arrived on the continent and are continuing to do so are fit young men. Most are low skilled economic migrants who are doing their utmost to ruin The European Culture. Rapes, sexual abuse of women and children as well as murders by "immigrants" are rife in many European countries. Australia will surely follow suit unless it does something now to curb the immigration of muslims, in particular, to this Country. NO TO ISLAM IN AUSTRALIA.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    6:27pm
    niemakawa, how correct you are!
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:20pm
    OMG!
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    7:21pm
    Unadulterated igmorance is alive and well!
    roy
    17th Feb 2016
    7:21pm
    Paulodapotter. OMG
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    7:54pm
    Pauliecopter, you misspelt "ignorance". Have a look inside yourself, if you are not too afraid to, that is. Yes, OMG.
    Rod63
    17th Feb 2016
    8:31pm
    Indeed, Paulo!
    particolor
    17th Feb 2016
    10:24pm
    Your wasting Your time telling most people that ! The ones that Tow The Party line :-( They wont wake up until they are Hit Over the Head with a Muslim Sledge Hammer ! :-( :-(
    Mygasheater
    18th Feb 2016
    12:22am
    What mob you from Niemakawa?
    niemakawa
    18th Feb 2016
    12:34am
    Mygasheater: I am not a Muslim for sure.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    2:37am
    Well known fact, muslims do not integrate, they consider it an affront of their 'freedom' that they should or be expected to. Look at the Sydney suburbs that have been overrun by this lot and they continue to breed like cockroaches. We certainly do not need any more muslim immigrants.
    Radish
    17th Feb 2016
    8:00pm
    The people we bring into this country have to be workers not leaners.
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    8:38pm
    Most definitely we have far too many "leaners" already.
    roy
    17th Feb 2016
    8:59pm
    As Paula would say, OMG.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    9:02pm
    mick, you have outdone yourself today.
    marls
    17th Feb 2016
    8:56pm
    should of been done some time ago, we do not have the services to provide for more immigration specially the ones that are coming over here and will never work a day in their life
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    9:02pm
    2 million + "economic immigrants" marched into Europe last year alone. Although I suspect the figure is twice that at least. Once they get a foothold in Australia which will be inevitable unless immigration is curbed drastically. Most bring backward "cultures" with them that have no place in a civilised society, causing chaos where ever they go.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    9:21pm
    Exactly, niemakawa, I couldn't agree with you more, but there are so many people here who cannot see this "oxen-drawn wooden-cart" culture due to their own stupidity until it is too late. Your comment above is factual and cannot honestly be argued with. There are none so blind as those who don't WANT to see. Good luck, mate, and God help us.
    Anonymous
    17th Feb 2016
    9:36pm
    You, too, are right, maris. The "Mediterranean back" affliction they claim to have seems to be a genetic weakness passed on to all the relatives, as well.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    10:15pm
    Not even you guys could be so dumb as to believe that!
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    10:18pm
    Please give me one instance where migration was the ruination of a country. I can give you several examples of where resistance to migration has caused countries to economically and culturally disappear.
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    10:31pm
    Isolationism is the death of a society and sets that society up for ostracisation and ongoing persecution. Influxes of refugees has never destroyed a country that's based on sound humanitarian principles. Name me one instance where I'm wrong.
    particolor
    17th Feb 2016
    10:39pm
    The goings on Right Now would be a good Instance to throw at that one !! :-( :-(
    particolor
    17th Feb 2016
    9:51pm
    YES ! And Bob Carr retiring on the Prescribed Old Age Pension of $867 a Fortnight would be Another step in the Right Direction !! :-( :-(
    Paulodapotter
    17th Feb 2016
    10:19pm
    Ha! Ha!
    particolor
    17th Feb 2016
    10:34pm
    Yes its bellow any of their Dignities ! Its a wonder they can get their Fat Heads through the Parliament House Doors !! :-(
    Dot
    17th Feb 2016
    10:41pm
    It's only taken 10 to 15 years to overpopulate with refugees. Have a look around and what do you see is Asians, Muslims and Indians every where. Woolworths seems to employ a lot of foreign people. I'm beginning to feel as if I'm in a foreign country, but the biggest back draw to all this is the cost to the Australian worker is the massive welfare to all those foreigners with big family's some thing that was denied to us who arrived here back in 1950.
    particolor
    17th Feb 2016
    11:01pm
    Its all over Red Rover !!
    niemakawa
    17th Feb 2016
    11:19pm
    The situation has the full backing of The Liberals/Labor/Greens and most independents. All want more Muslims in accordance with the edict of The UN and is part of the overall plan to make Islam the dominant force in Western Countries. Sweden will probably be the first country in Europe to fully embrace Islam and will be under the control of Sharia Law. The Swedish Government is now considering that teachers in that country should no longer be required to speak Swedish. There are many Muslim dominated areas throughout Europe, where Sharia Law is accepted by Governments. 15% of the French population is Muslim and growing at a rapid pace. There are more than 1.5 million Muslims in London alone. The average number of children for a Muslim family in Europe is around 7, whereas for the "indigenous" birthrate is around 1.7, which means that within 2 generations Europeans will be in the minority. UNLESS Muslim immigration is controlled. Unfortunately we cannot rely on Western Governments to change this trend, so it will have to be up to the people to do so. Islam is the most serious threat facing the people of Western Nations, Australia included and to believe otherwise is foolish to the extreme. It is not all over as particolor suggests, but the people must heed the severity of the threat that faces them
    Mygasheater
    18th Feb 2016
    12:36am
    Niemakawa,

    I wouldn't worry about Europe as it is a long way from Australia. If you really want to worry about Islam taking over this country look a heck of lot closer to home.

    "Indonesia has an estimated population of over 255 million people and is the world's fourth most populous country and the most populous Muslim-majority country." Wikipedia.
    niemakawa
    18th Feb 2016
    1:03am
    Mygasheater: Mygasheater: Let me go one step further ALL Muslim Countries are a threat to the security of ALL Western Nations. Islam is incompatible with Western values so must be contained and not allowed to spread into our society.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    2:45am
    Mygasheater its not the Indonesians who want to come here and they don't have the money anyway, its the hordes that are invading Europe and have money that will be on our doorstep soon enough. Look at the ones that have already come by boat, was Australia the first country they came across to seek asylum? Didn't realise Australia was next to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    10:36am
    Dot, I think so, too, but a few out the people on this site are living in their own insolar world and cannot see what is happening right in front of their eyes as they are too ignorant to admit to reality.
    Mygasheater
    18th Feb 2016
    12:56pm
    In the name of God, I call for all Christians to join a mighty crusade to take Jerusalem back from these accursed infidels. Those who die in this endeavour will go straight to heaven and sit with God and the angels. All Christians, join me in this noble cause, for the sake of your immortal soul.

    Oh bugger, that was done 800 years ago.
    JAID
    18th Feb 2016
    3:30pm
    :-) I am with you Mygasheater. Individuals are what need to be considered not a religion.

    It is interesting to me however that one I respect greatly and of a moslem background says and his friends say exactly what niemakawa says above. That Islam is incompatible with Western values.

    He doesn't want to see ruining involvement in Islamic cultures but in valuing Western culture highly, to quote: "by far the best available" he warns that while individuals may be able to fit, wholesale acceptance will find no fit at all and will only end up taking apart western culture. He supports this with incites into the talk between acquaintances where they naturally assume he is one with them. His report on that does not make happy reading.

    The thoughts of insiders do need to be considered. I don't think taking that account will ever mean that somebody of a particular religion should be banned but it does reinforce the notion that if as a community we decide that a certain amount of immigration is necessary, we need to find ways to judge the propensity of individuals to ruin what basis may be developed for an enlightened future. The ability of some individuals to greatly enhance our culture and future regardless of basic belief systems is, after all, already demonstrated.
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    8:52pm
    Allah is the way forward and none to be worshipped but he.
    pfbnug
    18th Feb 2016
    12:26am
    Australia needs people to help in building up the Dead Centre. Easy way to solve the problem - all refugees and immigrants now go to the centre, no dole, work for a living the way we had to. That will stop the free loaders and baby producers who sponge off of the workers.
    PS babies increase dole income for non=workers.
    PPS I can remember being told in the 70's about Oz's water resources only being enough to support 20 million.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    10:17am
    Most of these lowlife pseudo-refugees come from a place which resembles the Dead Centre or they have made it one with their own destructive behaviour.
    pfbnug
    18th Feb 2016
    12:26am
    Australia needs people to help in building up the Dead Centre. Easy way to solve the problem - all refugees and immigrants now go to the centre, no dole, work for a living the way we had to. That will stop the free loaders and baby producers who sponge off of the workers.
    PS babies increase dole income for non=workers.
    PPS I can remember being told in the 70's about Oz's water resources only being enough to support 20 million.
    Anonymous
    18th Feb 2016
    10:27am
    Your suggestion, pfbnug, could very well be worth looking into if the Dead Centre(link) for dead arses was in their original now-dead country of origin.
    Florgan
    18th Feb 2016
    1:42pm
    Well said Maxchugg .
    Well said Bob Carr.
    strikey
    18th Feb 2016
    2:42pm
    What a load of hysterical media spin... so totally visionless and myopic. Sure it is an absolutely a tragedy that over half of the Aussie population is crammed into 3-4 cities that occupy the most fertile and productive land we have. A visionary leader would say "No more" but then property developers carving up valuable farm land and covering it in concrete would be pissed off. So let's not upset them. A true visionary would be looking further into our vast deserts and building futuristic sustainable cities that can house millions of immigrants and anyone willing to have a go. It's already happening in nany countries. The Middle East China and many other visionary nations can do it. Why can't we? I currently live in Guangzhou in southern China. It's A city of 13million... Just over half of the Aussie population. Shanghai to the east has 25 million. To be honest it's no more overcrowded here than Sydney or Nelbourne. The govt here is visionary. It's a crime to build on fertile land. Get some balls AUSTRALIA think for the future not today!
    strikey
    18th Feb 2016
    2:42pm
    What a load of hysterical media spin... so totally visionless and myopic. Sure it is an absolutely a tragedy that over half of the Aussie population is crammed into 3-4 cities that occupy the most fertile and productive land we have. A visionary leader would say "No more" but then property developers carving up valuable farm land and covering it in concrete would be pissed off. So let's not upset them. A true visionary would be looking further into our vast deserts and building futuristic sustainable cities that can house millions of immigrants and anyone willing to have a go. It's already happening in nany countries. The Middle East China and many other visionary nations can do it. Why can't we? I currently live in Guangzhou in southern China. It's A city of 13million... Just over half of the Aussie population. Shanghai to the east has 25 million. To be honest it's no more overcrowded here than Sydney or Nelbourne. The govt here is visionary. It's a crime to build on fertile land. Get some balls AUSTRALIA think for the future not today!
    PlanB
    18th Feb 2016
    3:46pm
    Strikey, if you enjoy living in those conditions in those big population cities you can have it -- I hate big cities and when I see the rate at which humans -- mainly the --- "civilized races" --- have over taken this beautiful planet it makes me want weep the way they leave nothing natural and just want to exploit it for the almighty $$$$$
    JAID
    18th Feb 2016
    4:00pm
    There are carrying capacity issues that include water, arable land, what it produces and the like but who can reasonably argue with the value of ensuring that we do not spread over either areas of farming value or for that matter areas necessary to sustain genetic diversity in wildlife. Development and these values can work hand in hand and as you suggest Strikey we can look to some underutilised areas and techniques to provide for the reasonable expansion we may seek. We could also re-think the burgeoning standards and legislation which respond to limit vision as to what it takes to establish an appropriate quality of life costing and excluding in the process (certain minimum space, height and access standards.)

    This vision will extend local carrying capacity even if it has little impact on general over-stretching of the planet's ability to cope due to population increase.
    strikey
    18th Feb 2016
    4:25pm
    PlanB, I have spent most of my life living in the wide open spaces of the NT. I love the open space and freedom it gives.

    However some cultures have adapted to vertical living very efficiently. The Chinese are masters at vertical living. We as Australians demand a ¼ acre block and then cover it in concrete... so greedy and selfish. It's only when you travel widely and open your eyes that you can see other possibilities.

    The current Australian way of living is so self-centred. If we all lived on wasteland and converted it into our own Utopia then you could say we are the clever country.
    PlanB
    18th Feb 2016
    5:41pm
    I am far from covering my area in concrete -- yes I have a house but the rest is covered in rain forest, one thin I hate and could never live in is high density.

    You only have to look at the built up ares in China --the rivers are so polluted -- as is their air, and they could not car less about other life forms, they are crammed in.
    strikey
    18th Feb 2016
    6:18pm
    Plan B, maybe you have watched too many negative western tv shows about china. I see china as no different to the state USA was in when I was in California in the 1970's, everything in the US was polluted, the rivers filthy, the skies choked with smog and acid rain.

    China is 30years behind in that technology but is catching up very fast. They are already world leaders in alternative energy such as solar.

    China's re-forestation programs are nothing short of unbelievable. In southern China land that was totally denuded 30 years ago now resembles any drive out of Cairns or North Queensland. I live here and travel widely, everywhere you look something green is growing, even in the cities.

    Sure the culture is different here about how to live... but its none of our business to change that.

    Dont believe for one moment the propaganda spread largely by American media about China, most of it is false.

    I think China does an incredible job of managing 1.3billion citizens...... compared to the piddlingly small 24million that live in OZ.
    PlanB
    19th Feb 2016
    6:37am
    Well I certainly would not model anything on the USA strikey, although they have surely tried, sadly, why we can not remain unique I do not know.
    Rae
    19th Feb 2016
    10:10am
    I agree with you strikey. I too have lived in high density cities that were far easier to navigate around than Sydney and seemed less crowded because the urban planning had been done properly.
    There were green spaces, squares and community areas.

    Right now I live in a region where the local council charges one of the highest levels of rates in the State, has done nothing much for the past 40 years except to hold public meetings, take surveys and write reports.

    The "city" here could lay claim to being the Ugliest in the World and the council's claim to fame is a huge loss on CDOs and buying and selling a decrepit building in a city that is slightly worse than Detroit.

    The council is currently working on selling off any little square of green parkland or lookout causing the sprawling housing estates to become concrete jungles of rapidly decaying and badly built McMansions with twisting streets requiring Kms of walking to reach public transport thus overcrowded roads designed for a fraction of the current population. Can't have a park for the kids when there is money to be made.
    Rob
    18th Feb 2016
    3:01pm
    The argument goes: 'we need a high rate of immigration to increase the working population; we need a higher increase in workers to increase the tax base; we need a larger tax base to pay for an increase in infrastructure; we need an increase in infrastructure to cope with the increase in population'. Sounding a bit circular?? And it's not working. Infrastructure has fallen way behind our needs.
    The fact is that the only way politicians can think of to grow the economy is by increasing the population. But will the means justify the end?
    strikey
    18th Feb 2016
    4:53pm
    Many here talk about infinite resources particularly WATER. The truth is water is not an infinite resource if you recycle it. But wait a minute, our nation has an hysterical phobia about drinking recycled water. WHY?

    We are a country of prolific wasters. We prefer to buy "corporatised" water in a plastic bottle to drink at $5 a litre than what comes out of the tap.

    Our irrigation systems are all open drain where we lose billions of litres to evaporation and seepage. A clever country would have converted all that to sealed pipes and never waste a drop........ and then watered every life sustaining plant with micro irrigation.

    We flush billions of litres into the sewer just cleaning our environment and possessions. Industry wastes 10,000 times more than the average household but the householder pays for that waste. None of it is recycled.

    A visionary country would have invested in infrastructure to recycle our precious water years ago and we would be all proud to drink it. Sadly we are not capable of doing so.

    And some has-been politician has the gall to say we can't sustain the population.....
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    5:32pm
    Vote independent.
    niemakawa
    18th Feb 2016
    5:49pm
    Mick, they will only side with Liberal or Labor which have virtually the same agenda. Vote ALA they will regenerate this Country and make us a proud Nation once more. The Status quo no longer works. There is not much time left to save our culture and way of life.
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    8:51pm
    Vote ALA, you know it makes sense.
    strikey
    18th Feb 2016
    5:57pm
    Overpopulation.. just another hysterical word pandered by the media to anyone gullible enough to swallow it.

    Here are some facts for those less travelled and of closed mind.

    Singapore, one of the most beautiful and efficient cities in Asia. Beautiful parks, forests and gardens and some nice beaches and seaside resorts. POPULATION 5.5million AREA 715sq/km

    Sydney, the so called emerald city, the most beautiful harbour in the world, nice beaches and backed against the Blue Mountains. POPULATION 4.8million AREA 12,400sq/km

    The sprawling and inefficient urban mess of Sydney is a cancer. Any wonder urbanites want to restrict the population. Think visionary like Singapore and you will go a long way to solve any future problems.
    niemakawa
    18th Feb 2016
    6:03pm
    I agree Australia lacks vision in promoting higher density. Yes Australia has the capacity to increase its population but for the right reasons. Australia needs a professional, educated and motivated workforce and a much reduced social welfare system as well. Increasing the population in number only will not achieve ongoing prosperity.
    Rob
    18th Feb 2016
    7:25pm
    You are right about Singapore. But it was created by a benign dictator who valued the environment and good planning and architecture.
    We, on the other hand, have a jumble of elected MPs who never agree and who often represent the views of vested interests and minority groups, rarely looking at the big picture and rarely operating for the general good.
    roy
    18th Feb 2016
    10:44pm
    Vote ALA.
    Radish
    19th Feb 2016
    1:45pm
    I would never, never live in a high rise building.
    Anonymous
    21st Feb 2016
    7:11am
    Singapore owes its prosperity to Lee Kuan Yu's dictatorship. He did a wonderful job in government. But I lived there in the early 70s and I had an ''amah'' who cried constantly about being forced out of her rural home and into a tiny one-bedroom apartment (with 13 kids!) that had a sink and portable two-burner gas cooker at one end of a large combined bed-living room in which the children slept, and a shared bathroom. She was ''taken out of poverty'', deprived of her chickens and their eggs and her vegetable garden (which sent her living costs soaring) and deprived of the space and atmosphere of the rural cottage she loved. Sure, it was a run-down shack with poor facilities, but it was her family home. She had to work 50 hours a week in domestic service to make up enough to cover the extra living costs (including high rent for the apartment).

    As much as I admire what Lee Kuan Yu did for Singapore, I would never want to see it happen here.
    Radish
    19th Feb 2016
    1:44pm
    I always love it when ex politicians say what they really think once they are out of office. Why didn't he say this when he was Foreign Minister?
    I believe we do need to curb world population but it wont happen while we have certain religions who espouse having as many children as possible.
    John Howard was correct when he said "we choose who comes to this country" and we certainly should. We do need migrants but ones who are"lifters".
    Moriac
    20th Feb 2016
    6:25pm
    I think greens policy is to halve immigration numbers and double humanitarian from what it used to be.

    21st Feb 2016
    7:03am
    Some scary reports for those who think immigration isn't a problem for Australia:

    MORE than 60 per cent of refugees to Australia have failed to get a job after five years, according to a damning Federal Government report into the humanitarian settlement program. And 83 per cent of those households now rely on welfare payments for income.
    The greatest unemployment rate was recorded among new arrivals from Iraq and Afghanistan, with less than one in 10 finding full-time work and 93.7 per cent of households receiving Centrelink payments.

    According to leading migrant and refugee settlement agency AMES Chief Executive Officer Cath Scarth, the effective unemployment rate among some communities from non-English speaking backgrounds in Australia could be as high as 20 per cent. Scarth said Australia’s unemployment rate was currently at 5.6 per cent and for Australians born in the Middle East or North Africa, the rate was 9.2 per cent and for people from sub-Saharan Africa it was 7.5 per cent.

    Unemployment among skilled migrants and their families is 30% higher than for the population as a whole. A significant number of skilled migrants are unable to find work. At the last census, 7.3 per cent of skilled migrants were unemployed compared with 5.2 per cent of the population as a whole.

    The ABS report suggests another major contributing factor to the higher unemployment rate among migrants was the difficulty faced by the spouses and children of skilled migrant workers in finding work once they joined their partners in Australia. This group – known as ”secondary applicants” – is made up largely of women, children and other dependent relatives. Just 32 per cent of secondary applicants of working age were employed full-time compared with 68 per cent of so-called ”primary applicants”.
    Moriac
    21st Feb 2016
    1:39pm
    Certainly been and interestin line of discussions but funny how any talk about population quickly turns to religion and you can,t have logic once faith holds an over bearing influence
    Fair Go
    10th Mar 2016
    5:03pm
    Yes, to the comments regarding selective immigration. It is not only the large number of immigrants we take at present, but where they come from and their then birth rate in Australia. I have seen many, many of certain ethnic women, 4 or 5 children in tow and another on the way, and mum looks about 20! Sorry, but we have to get real. And for the developing world as well, population control, however accomplished, is necessary if we are to survive as a species. Our infrastructure can't cope at present, and as said by a correspondent, many of our immigrants may never work and perhaps neither will their many children, but our governing fathers continue to blame us pensioners.


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