19th Nov 2018
Newstart not enough, but neither is the Age Pension: older Aussies

With news that an Age Pension increase may be on the way, but no such joy for Newstart recipients, YourLifeChoices sought your thoughts on which one should be given priority.

While 78 per cent of those surveyed in our Age Pension or Newstart increase: which one should be a priority? flash poll said that the Newstart base rate should be increased, only 42 per cent said that should be prioritised over raising the Age Pension base rate.

Eighty-six per cent of those surveyed also said that the Age Pension base rate should be increased. When asked if they would give up an Age Pension increase for a Newstart increase, 52 per cent said ‘no’, 28 per cent said ‘yes’ and 21 per cent said they were unsure.

The survey also revealed that 25 per cent of respondents had been or are receiving Newstart payments.

Currently, Newstart recipients have to live on around $272 a week on average. When asked if this was enough for our members to live on, 87 per cent said ‘no’.

A report released on Friday by the Australian Council of Social Services (ACOSS) revealed that all of the crossbenchers of the Lower House of Federal Parliament and key Senate crossbenchers support an increase to Newstart.

“The diverse crossbench’s unity on increasing Newstart confirms just how out of touch the major parties are on this issue, as does polling which finds 68 per cent of the community agrees we must increase Newstart,” said ACOSS chief executive Cassandra Goldie.

“Most people receiving Newstart live below the poverty line. It is very difficult to look for a job when you don’t know where your next meal is coming from or how to put food on the table for your kids. For years, people have been telling their story, trying to get the Federal Government to hear them.

“It’s time for the Coalition Government to listen, and most importantly to act now to increase Newstart by $75 per week. 

“The rate of Newstart has not been increased in real terms for 24 years, and since 2014, the Coalition Government has been trying to cut the payment even further. While the Labor Opposition has promised a review of Newstart should it win government, people cannot afford to keep waiting in poverty for politicians to finally act.

“We strongly call on the major parties to work together to urgently steer bipartisan legislation to raise the rate of Newstart and Youth Allowance through the Australian Parliament before the holiday season.

“It’s time politicians righted this long-standing wrong and delivered social justice to people on the very lowest incomes in our wealthy country.

“Many of us are a job loss or a relationship break down away from relying on our social security safety net. We can afford a decent social security safety net and universal access to services by ensuring that businesses and individuals contribute their fair share of tax,” she said.

Chief economist at Deloitte Access Economics Chris Richardson agrees that raising the welfare allowance has to become a priority.

“In Australia, we have one of the highest minimum wages in the world and relative to that one of the lowest unemployment benefits in the world,” said Mr Richardson.

He says adding $10 a day to the existing base rate of unemployment benefits would cost $3.3 billion but would create a bigger economy.

“Of that direct cost of $3.3 billion, because it’s going to people who will basically spend every cent ... it tends to have a bigger boost to the size of the economy than some other things do,” he said.

Opinion:  Overwhelming support for over 55s ‘transition’ payment
While older Australians certainly do support increasing Newstart payments, there is a prevailing sentiment that by doing so, the Government would essentially be giving handouts to younger people not making a good enough go of it. So, we asked if it might be a good idea to create a new form of ‘transition’ payment that helps unemployed people over 55. This idea received massive support, with 82 per cent agreeing with the idea.

“Newstart seems cruel for people who cannot find a job and have tried with no success. Maybe age of unemployed is relevant as older ones would be in more distress than a teenager or very young one who can stay home with mum and dad. One size may not fit all. Some older workers who are unemployed are in limbo and using up their savings and super in their fifties and sixties. An employer does not have to state that age is an impediment to getting the job they simply don’t choose an older person. Single pensioners who are renting seem to be struggling, so again individual circumstances need to be considered for elderly people,” wrote Paddington.

“Yes, I agree. And finding myself in the situation – too young for the pension, too old to find a new job – I know quite some people who are really struggling on Newstart. What many people out there don’t know is: To be eligible for Newstart when you are over 55, you either have to apply for 20(!) jobs per fortnight, which is very frustrating, or you can work 30 hours per fortnight as a volunteer for organisations/charities of your choice, which can be very rewarding personally, but sadly not financially. Most volunteers are on some sort of Centrelink payments. Imagine Australia without volunteers!” wrote Ms Logik.

“Both Newstart and Pensions (Age and Disability) are woefully inadequate. I chose to prioritise the Pension as pensioners have no chance of changing their circumstances. For even those lucky enough to have acquired substantial superannuation during their working lives, the only way is down, never up. On the other hand, a young person has something very important on their side – time – time to study, time to get a job and time to save for their retirements. They will receive superannuation all their working lives whereas those now retired received it only since 1992, meaning that current retirees have had some two decades less of superannuation than today’s workers,” wrote CarolAT.

Some YourLifeChoices members feel that our politicians are far too removed to be making decisions about what is enough money to live on at any age.

“You cannot live off an Age Pension if you have rent to pay, food to buy, bills to pay, run a car and have a very, very modest lifestyle even without travel involved. I feel so sorry for people on Newstart allowance. It’s disgraceful, what the Government thinks is enough to live on. Most people on NewStart allowance don't eat properly. They live on rice alone. Which is very unhealthy. While politicians live off an income of $4000 a week. They have no clue what these people go through to make ends meet and they never meet impossible to live off $272 week. I need $600 a week to live, to pay rent, buy good food, pay my bills and run my car. I don't smoke, drink, or gamble and have no social life, other than very occasionally I go to an $8 movie,” wrote Enneagram 8.

Sixty-eight per cent of YourLifeChoices members believe Newstart should be benchmarked in the same way as the Age Pension.

“There is no reason why Newstart and the Age Pension shouldn't be identical. The living costs would be the same. In fact, it could be argued that Newstart should be higher to account for the additional expenses of looking for work, which an aged pensioner need not worry about. Having said that, the Age Pension should be much higher and at least 75 per cent of the minimum wage. The Age Pension should be the benchmark for all social security,” wrote Maelcolium.

“Both payments need to be raised and Newstart should have a rate for those over 55 who have worked their entire lives and cannot find employment, which is comparable to the pension,” wrote MareeIrene.

What do you think? Should the Government seriously look into creating a new form of payment for over 55s who don’t yet qualify for the Age Pension?

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    COMMENTS

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    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    10:25am
    There are no welfare payments - they are Social Security bought and paid for.... now that we've settled the playing surface for the umpteenth time - let's discuss....

    Social Security funding was, and should always have been, kep separate and out of the grasping hands of governments, and then lately, retirement funding should have been kept out of the hands of avaricious superannuation funds.

    Pretty simple really.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    10:46am
    I recommend a total revamp of the whole social security system.... re-installation of the good bits and removal of the bad....

    It's Time!! (wait a minute... haven't I heard that somewhere before...?)
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    11:12am
    They are both welfare payment paid to those who have no other means of support. They are paid for the current taxpayers and have not been paid for in any way by the recipients.
    MICK
    19th Nov 2018
    11:36am
    It is not rocket science that working Australians and the bottom end are being squeezed hard. This is showing up in people having tightened their belts to asphyxiation level and now not being able to meet their living costs.
    We need to realise what is happening. no accident. This is money being siphoned away from citizens and being used to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. This is the model being used in several other countries and Australians need to react rather than absorb this.

    We are not just talking about Newstart. This is a game plan and it affects all of us. That's why now more than ever we need to choose our vote carefully and not be duped by the right wing media grooming currently going on as WE will all wear the results. Of course I expect the normal 'jobs' diversion from the usual puppets to be rolled out rather than a discussion of what is.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:09pm
    Mick Everyone should pay the same rate of income tax no matter how much they earn.
    Rae
    19th Nov 2018
    12:12pm
    Yes a 0.05% transaction tax and see whose got all the money? And who screams the loudest about it not being fair?
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:15pm
    They tried that one years ago with accounts with cheque books. Everyone got rid of their cheque books. If they try it with currency everyone will move to cyrtos instead and they wont get any tax at all.
    Old Man
    19th Nov 2018
    12:56pm
    MICK, you accuse me of following the party line if I disagree with you but when I disagree it's only to correct an exaggeration. You keep banging on about the "rich" getting tax cuts whilst the rest of us are carrying the load when the facts throw up a different picture. The facts are from our ABC so I would presume that they are correct and they show a percentile split into fifths of income. The bottom fifth contribute zero tax as do the second lowest fifth. The middle fifth contributes 3% of tax income, the second highest fifth contributes 19% of tax income and the top fifth contributes 79% of tax income.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    1:06pm
    Agree the 20% of the highest income earners pay 80% of the tax so they deserve a tax cut.
    MICK
    19th Nov 2018
    1:41pm
    You are distorting the facts to make it sound like the top end of society is hard done ny. Disappointing.
    Your statistics hide the fact that the top end make many millions of dollars taxable income every year. Then the tax rate is applied and it is not great surprise that the GROSS tax paid appears significant.
    The way of reporting tax paid should be WHAT % OF THE INCOME IS THIS? That's what you fail to want to discuss but it is the pertinent question.
    I can see OG having his usual out as well and ignoring the reality that a fair taxation system taxes on the basis of having the propensity to pay. It is quite right and just that very high income earners SHOULD pay a higher PERCENTAGE of their income in tax despite the obvious fact that this would appear to be unfair to them.
    You might want to look at some European countries where people accept the above because they are not greedy self interest people rorting the system for their own mega wealth. The system needs to be fair lest we end up with another America......which the current government and its rich supporters cry out for.
    Dave R
    19th Nov 2018
    1:44pm
    No they don't old geezer. The top 20% of taxable incomes pays 80% of the tax NOT the top 20% of income earners. The two things are not the same and many people with very high incomes pay little or no tax at all due to clever accounting.
    Old Man
    19th Nov 2018
    2:28pm
    Really MICK, is that the best reply you can come up with? I'm not trying to make any part of society anything more than it is. The tax laws allow anyone, regardless of income, to claim expenditure used in the course of employment as a deduction from their income. What's left after the ATO agrees is taxable income. You are muddying the waters by wanting something that isn't available; the percentage of tax against income as each person or corporate entity is different and a standard percentage can't be given. I agree that high income earners begrudge the amount of tax they they pay, just as all income earners begrudge the amount of tax that they pay. You are probably one of the very few who gladly hands over your tax share with a smile.
    Rae
    19th Nov 2018
    2:32pm
    Yes Dave R that is correct. Living on cashflow and capital gain is pretty much low tax for very high income earners. It's why a tiny transaction tax would be more equitable.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    2:52pm
    Rich would only pay a transaction tax once when they take it out of our currency system. The poor would pay a lot more as they would pay it multiple times.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    2:53pm
    If I don't pay tax on it then it isn't income.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:40pm
    What a stupid statement. So wages below the tax threshold are not income? What are they then? Best increase them immediately, because the poor recipient apparently have ZERO income, despite working.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:40pm
    What a stupid statement. So wages below the tax threshold are not income? What are they then? Best increase them immediately, because the poor recipient apparently have ZERO income, despite working.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    7:45pm
    Yes OGR they are income as you are taxed on them.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    7:47pm
    An admissionfrom OG that the small income earners are the e3ngine room of the e43conomy... Lordie, Lordie.. open up dem pearly gates.. Ol' Rastus's 'as seen it all!

    Now, honkey - how do rationalise the highest paid paying the most with the lowest paid copp0ing it more from a transaction tax? What's your out??
    geordie
    19th Nov 2018
    10:46am
    For a very large percentage of people on Newstart it's not a hand up while trying to find work. It's a life style. No one lives on just the Newstart. There are dozens of charities and govt. departments who feed, clothe, medicate and treat (medical and dental) all for free. Generally, and I do say generally, the Newstart is used to buy smokes, alcohol and illeagal drugs. I know I sound jaded but I work in the homeless community and see the rorts and abuse of the system by men and women who thrive on abuse of the welfare system. Apologies to the many legitimate receivers of help from centre link.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    11:15am
    I too work in that area and I agree with you. Any more money will only lead to further abuse. I also know of many people who live on Newstart by choice. Most say to me why get out of bed to go to work when you don't have to?
    patti
    19th Nov 2018
    11:19am
    Maybe it's a good thing that some people don't want to look for work - it frees up jobs for those who really want one. There are not enough jobs to go around for all the jobless folk in the country
    Rosret
    19th Nov 2018
    11:41am
    I would have to say the people I have spoken to who use this are just using it as a supplementary transition to retirement.

    It is really slave labour however to most who take it on it's a little income boost.

    Anyone you needs to drive to a place of employment would know the majority of that income would go on travel expenses.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:17pm
    Rosret you simply don't have the means to drive so employment agencies have to drive you. Ever wondered why they have so many cars.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    12:22pm
    Geordie, do you also understand the social failure that has led to people pursuing that life style? Nobody wants to live like that. Humans have an innate desire to be successful, respected, and engage in useful endeavour. It's part of our makeup. Those you speak of have had those innate qualities destroyed by suffering as a result of abuse, injustice, and major failure on the part of society. If people stopped condemning and punishing and looked for ways to GENUINELY help, the so-called ''rorts'' could be dramatically reduced. But that's too hard. Condemning and victimising is far easier and more convenient, and it boosts the self-esteem of those who consider themselves superior.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:28pm
    Rubbish OGR. Most of them want to live like that by choice.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    12:43pm
    OG, you ARE the problem. People like you, who refuse to even try to understand the social torment and injustice that drives people to accept failure and social exclusion cause all the problems in society today. NOBODY lives like that by choice unless they feel there is no other valid option - but many do see no other option, because of the abuse, cruelty, deprivation and intolerance of the a-holes who assume superiority and pass vile judgements.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:56pm
    OGR I'll leave you to dream on.
    musicveg
    19th Nov 2018
    3:35pm
    I have never met anyone who says they like being on Newstart, most would love help to better themselves and live like a "normal" person. They only fall into the trap of alcohol and drug abuse to mask their misery, and turn to crime to make ends meet. Do you want more crime? Or more money spent on the economy?
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    3:42pm
    Hahaha - noe I've heard it all
    Bludgers on newstart only drink & do drugs to mask their misery

    Good one musicveg
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:54pm
    Way too privileged and arrogant to recognize truths, Lothario. If you'd ever walked in their shoes, you would think very differently. Musicveg is correct.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    6:55pm
    Stop talking rubbish Rainey
    I have been on the dole. Actually saved money while on it
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    7:51pm
    Just visited Port Arthur today - bet all those prisoners chose the crime lifestyle to get a feed... your comment is frankly bizarre, OG....Lothie? You SAVED money while on the dole? You double dealing cheater, you... how long ago and under what circumstances?

    Clowns to the Left of me, jokers to the Right... here I am, stuck in the middle with you, Rainey....
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:38pm
    Yeah - someone on $325 a week can afford to endlessly swallow down bourbon and cokes at $7 a shot.... (jesus god)....
    Old Geezer
    20th Nov 2018
    11:07am
    Trebor I bet most of those in Port Arthur today are pensioners too. They are the only ones who can afford the time and money to go to such places. Jut wait to the cruise ships come in and then you cant move for pensioners.
    TREBOR
    20th Nov 2018
    5:34pm
    Actually no - tradies, truckies, tourism operators and people who work at Port Arthur .. couple of vineyards and a distillery. Probably quite a few pensioners around the traps, it being a very oceanside area.....

    The only pensioners I met at Port Arthur were visitors - a farming family from Wagga and a couple of others including a Hong Kong lady and her daughter....

    The cruise ship is in there today - 3-5000 people.... yangs... might do it myself next time... with the disabled ex, an extended golf cart was available - drop you off and then pick you up at an appointed hour - doesn't run you around on a tour, but very reliable and friendly.

    Some really nice people working there.... some down from Sydney for a new life... refos ....
    Old Geezer
    21st Nov 2018
    10:56am
    From memory you have to be able to walk unassisted to use the tenders to get ashore at Port Arthur.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    3:54pm
    It's very clear OG and Lothario are contemptible ignorant arrogant people, completely lacking in empathy and far too privileged and overpaid to understand life in the real world.

    It's a well established fact that addiction - whether to drugs, alcohol, or to a no-work lifestyle - is caused by resorting to unhealthy habits to mask pain, including severe emotional pain. The people these vile over-privileged creeps condemn have suffered. They have been tortured and abused by a cruel society, and if the self-appointed judges weren't the perpetrators of the abuse originally, a-holes who judge and condemn feed the sickness with their ongoing abuse and torment. Vile and disgusting! Sadly, only certain types of social wrong entitle folk to protection. Some - like the sexually abused, children stolen from families and denied love and care, and children abused and deprived in institutions - are now getting very belated recognition and even minimal compensation, but it's way too little, way too late. And sadly it isn't putting an end to the vile abuse and torment. It's just making a few perpetrators and pollies feel good.

    There but for the grace of God go you, OG and Lothario. One can only hope you are suitably punished in the next life - if there is such a thing - for your heinous crimes. There is nothing more vile and contemptible in our world than the SCUM who assume the right to judge and condemn others.
    Lothario
    21st Nov 2018
    4:22pm
    Rainey - I had a very difficult abusive childhood. It has left many scars and I am prone to addiction as a result. Its been a constant struggle , but I've used my troubled past to motivate myself to succeed
    I think I am a better person and successful because of the abuse as I have used me experience to make me stronger, more ambitious and driven instead of take the losers option and opt out of society
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    9:28pm
    I don't believe you, Lothario, because if that were true you wouldn't make the vile statements you make. You would have understanding and empathy. People who know what real suffering is don't trample on those who haven't been able to overcome the challenges they faced. They understand that some are able to rise above hardship - perhaps due to a fortunate opportunity or a good influence or some innate strength that others simply don't have. I was among the fortunate. I had a good influence in my life and was taught how to impress the people who could open doors. Life was very hard, but I did okay. Those I work with who haven't succeeded as well simply didn't have the breaks I had. They were kicked in the guts when they were down, instead of being given a hand up. Decent people understand that and show respect and empathy.
    If you were prone to addiction, Lothario, you would know that addiction results from attempts to mask unbearable pain, and you wouldn't judge. Therefore, it's patently obvious that you are being untruthful.
    And people who genuinely had difficult and abusive childhoods and are left with scars and battling addiction don't earn huge salaries and drive a Mercedes Benz. Or at least if, by some amazing luck, they do, they would never boast about it on a forum where others are reporting serious struggle.
    Dave R
    19th Nov 2018
    11:17am
    The whole system needs to be revamped and social security payments should not be in the hands of politicians who use promises of increased payments and/or special bonuses as electoral bribes. I remember Howard granting all age pensioners a one off $1,000 payment shortly before an election.
    For now though regarding the plight of many unemployed over 55's and our very low job search payment made to these people many of whom will not be able to find employment due to their age I would suggest an immediate increase in their payment to an amount half way between the unemployment payment and the pension payment, in other words a transitional payment rate.
    Old Man
    19th Nov 2018
    2:53pm
    Sorry Dave R, your memory has failed you. Howard did give cash payments to pensioners but never to the amount you have claimed. The difference with Howard and Rudd giving handouts was Howard was dividing a surplus whereas Rudd was borrowing money to make the payments. Rudd handed out more than Howard ever did.

    In the 2001 budget Howard and Costello gave a one-off payment of $300 to everyone of age pension age. In the 2007 budget there was a one-off bonus to seniors of $500 each. There were other payments to ex-POW's, carers, to people receiving the family tax benefit. In 2009, Rudd gave either $1040 or $1400 to pensioners.

    Note to MICK; not spouting the party line, just correcting a misstatement.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    2:57pm
    I saved all the money from the Rudd giveaways and now that account has well over $10,000 in it and interest rates have been quite low since that time so we must have been given many thousands under the Rudd government.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    7:58pm
    You've never accepted government handouts, OG - you said so... you are stumbling over your stories again... but that's OK - we still care about you.

    OM - both parties are pork barrelers to the max - however - Rudd's 'gift' to the pensioner at Christmas was an economy stimulus.. and most was spent immediately back into the economy as planned .... Howard Costello's $300 was to compensate for the GST so pensioners would not be disadvantaged... and if Rudd was borrowing money to pay that $1040 or whatever it was because Howard Costello sold off the family farm and cut revenue... entrenching underlying revenue debasement....

    Very poor economic management in a boom time.....
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:08pm
    Costello cut revenue ????
    Hahaha
    Not only did he grow revenue, he eliminated crippling interest costs
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:43pm
    You mean selling off the income bearing public utilities wasn't selling off the farm and thus reducing long-term revenue? Well.. buggar me!

    Every 'government' that has sold off public utilities for short-term pork barreling is now finding itself cash-strapped... living proof is the beloved LNP having increased debt by nearly three times what it was when they inherited it... and at a time of miniscule inflation (ostensibly)... so they can't claim the existing debts falling due, such as pensions and unemployment etc, are the cause of this....

    Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us, Lothie??? You seem to know it all...... give it to us chapter and verse.... tell us peasants how the LNP have done such a wonderful job....
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:44pm
    I wont waste my time attempting to explain. It would just be wasted on you
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:33am
    Costello's overly-generous gifts - 80% of which went to the richest 20% - were the cause of the deficit blamed on Labor. Labor inherited a mass of unaffordable obligations to overfeed the wealthy, and winding them back too quickly would have resulted in them being thrown out immediately. When it became obvious these handouts were unaffordable, Labor was thrown out so that the handouts to the rich would continue.
    Lothario
    20th Nov 2018
    8:17am
    Rainey the cartoon character is back in action
    TREBOR
    20th Nov 2018
    8:27am
    Nothing to say so out comes the personal comment, Loathie? Your style sounds amazingly familiar...
    Old Geezer
    20th Nov 2018
    11:08am
    I got lots of gifts from Rudd but none from Costello.
    TREBOR
    20th Nov 2018
    5:35pm
    Costalot was too busy salting away your billions into his future fund..... not yours or the nation's....

    Grand Theft Canberra.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    8:54am
    I got nothing from Costello either, OG - NOR from Rudd (who excluded anyone forced to live on their savings). But that proves NOTHING. Costello handed out billions to the wealthy. Actually, I very much doubt that you got nothing from Costello, OG. But you continually lie about everything - as proved by your constant contradictory statements.
    almost a grey hair
    19th Nov 2018
    11:25am
    If privacy laws could be amended to allow Centrelink to look closer into peoples private circumstances instead of relying on what people admit to at interview then I believe there would be a lot more funds to spread around.
    How many people are claiming benefits at the single rate when they are in fact living and presenting as a couple. How many solo parents with kids are claiming benefits as a single when they are indeed in a relationship, and the same for those on any type of benefit. The problem is because of privacy laws nothing can be done about it, Centrelink cannot look into your private affairs ,they cannot park outside your house with cameras or enter your house to check on sleeping arrangements. What all people have to realise is that those funds come from the taxpayer not the gov. Revamp the whole of Centrelink so that if you are ripping off the system you either pay back or you do time.
    Rosret
    19th Nov 2018
    12:00pm
    Centrelink is mean enough.

    I had a story related to me just recently.

    A couple in their 90s were receiving the OAP and related card benefits.

    The wife died and Centrelink determined the husband didn't qualify anymore so he lost the card benefits and any payments.

    Because he didn't have a Pensioner card anymore he applied for an Opal travel Card - which he received.

    He then did the sums and felt he was entitled to a small amount and the pensioner card. So he rang Centrelink.

    The lady said, "Sure, come in anytime." So he did.

    On arrival the receptionist said,"No, you need to make an appointment. Come back tomorrow." So he did.

    The receptionist then said, "So you did come back." mmm
    However you need a birth certificate. So he went home and came back again after making a new appointment.

    A different person then attended to him. He handed over his 1929 Victorian birth certificate. - and the man said, "We can't handle Victorian birth certificates in NSW do you have an extract?" Which he did.

    The man then said, " Sorry, the system can't handle DOB before 1929!"

    So the husband then wrote to his local member of Parliament and finally he got a small remuneration each fortnight but more importantly the pensioner card for medical and travel expenses.

    So Opal cancelled his travel card as he had a Pensioner card. Except. A few months later the government changed the thresholds and he lost his pensioner qualification and the pensioner card.

    However now he has to reapply for the Opal Card!

    So the only people who really scam the system are much cleverer than the average person and Centrelink are trained at being really horrible.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:23pm
    Don't talk to me about Opal cards. I was going to Sydney awhile back so added money to my Opal Card. Because I didn't use my Opal card within a certain period of time they refunded the money back to me. So when I did eventually use my Opal Card it would not work. So I held up the queue at the turnstile until someone came along and worked out the problem. I just kept trying it every few minutes until help arrived. I was then given a free opal card for my journey due the system inconveniencing me.
    almost a grey hair
    19th Nov 2018
    12:29pm
    rosret- 1 -what a load of rubbish, if they were rec pension at couple rate, she dies thence is entitled at the single rate which is more than half couple rate. 2 -anyone can walk into a Centrelink office state their business and tak.e a pew. 3 -they accept 100 points of proof just like any other gov dept including birth certs from any country, they acc mine. 4 -At 90 yrs of age this guy would not be writing to anybody so dream on.Centrelink staff are trained to leave no stone unturned if you are applying for a DSP and you can fold paper napkins then you can seek employment folding paper napkins. Thats not how I think, thats how they think.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    1:37pm
    There s a report that claims 70 a day are being caught out claiming single rate when they should not be.
    almost a grey hair
    19th Nov 2018
    2:04pm
    Yeh I bet its been ramped up since the rainbow vote, how many same sex couples have been flying under the radar and posing as singles for the single rate of benefits x2 when in fact they are a couple. But as I said before Centrelink can only ask the questions they cannot follow you around with cameras like an insurance company investigates compensation claims.
    In fact instead of going on the rock and roll I might volunteer for this position 15 hrs a wk for about 500 a f/n. Great work if only allowed.
    Old Man
    19th Nov 2018
    3:04pm
    I fully agree with you, almost a grey hair, and I also think that the privacy laws only help those who are rorting the system. I have no fear of Big Brother as I carry out my life in a manner that won't attract any penalties. I have nothing to hide from authorities, therefore nothing to fear. I worked in debt collection for a time and the privacy laws back then, although only minor compared with today, meant that those owing money could move and not be found. Prior to those privacy laws, Department of Transport files and CES files could be accessed, although incurring a fee, but those debtors could be tracked. The result was more debts written off and interest rates for honest people raised to cover the bad debts.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    5:21pm
    Honest people pay more due to the dishonest people hiding behind privacy laws.
    almost a grey hair
    19th Nov 2018
    5:57pm
    yeh and my three gainfully employed kids are paying for them all including O.A.P.s thru their taxes so that when they reach 67 they can have a rest and hold their hand out as well
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:52pm
    Always amuses me how the greedy rich who avoid taxes, extort, pillage and plunder, and manipulate to get benefits they neither need nor deserve are the first to slander the poor guy on Newstart and claim he's a bludger.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    7:47pm
    OGR if I do that why aren't I on the OAP?
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:00pm
    Last time I did a tax return the ATO auto-filled every part including any bank interest.. Centrelink is linked - there is zero need to permit Colonel C'Link any more access to anything...
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    9:00pm
    I'd like to see that report, OG... yo' gotta link dere, Bro??
    What was it now - 70 a day being caught out getting single when they shouldn't.... 490 a week - say 500 for round figures.....52 weeks in a year... 26,000 a year... jeez.. soon they'll have every pensioner on couples....

    Lessee now...

    "The government-funded age pension is still an important source of income for the majority of older Australians after retirement. In June 2017, 2.5 million people aged 65 and over received at least a partial age pension, representing 66% of older people. This rate has decreased over recent years, declining from 75% in 1997, when 1.7 million older people received any age pension"

    https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/older-people/older-australia-at-a-glance/contents/social-and-economic-engagement/employment-and-economic-participation


    Where's that link, OG? Who 'reported' this and what are the details? A pensioner separated for a time can be deemed 'single' - is this really about people reverting to couple pension once reunited? Is this just another beat-up from the pensioner/retiree hater lobby using false figures of poor old people separated by long term illness and getting home together again?

    Details, son - details... empty words mean nothing....
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    9:11pm
    Just for you Trebor/

    https://startsat60.com/money/government/centrelink-couples-cheating-system-2018-figures?pr=83cf8d7305d690a7d55b75f158ad8a4d1e7f869cc523b505afa47a13f3242eb8&utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    10:12pm
    OG this is not a government report nor does it give a breakdown of the figures quoted, in Donald Trump style this is faked news & you should be ashamed of yourself for quoting same.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:41am
    It's happening, 1984. I know folk who are doing it. But it's because the system is unfair and cruel to honest folk that people resort to dishonesty. If the system was sensible and fair, there would be no need. Punishing people for remaining in relationships, saving and investing is the cause of all the problems. Make the aged pension universal as it is in all other civilised nations and the problems would end.
    TREBOR
    20th Nov 2018
    8:36am
    I noticed it was not a government statement.... just a blog.

    Anyway - it rapidly moves away from the alleged subject matter and int the realm of just throwing figures around :-

    "More than 70 people a day are cheating the system, with figures showing 26,346 individuals failed to declare they were in a relationship for the 2017-18 financial period. This resulted in more than $61 million worth of overpayments that now have to be repaid to the Commonwealth.

    Some cases were found to be genuine mistakes and oversights, but many were deliberate acts of fraud that were detected by members of the Department of Human Services’ specialist fraud and compliance teams".

    Was this using the good old automated system of demand with menaces? Did someone change the rules?

    26,345 people - $61m - around $2000 each.... maybe if that blog can be believed.. though in an election year I doubt it. Yo' god some secondary verification dere.. coupla more positive sources.. from da government perhaps?

    I'm touring Tasmania - haven't got time to chew you asses all day - C YA L8TA!
    Lothario
    20th Nov 2018
    8:39am
    Ask for proof and when provided come of with b/s.
    Par for the course for your type
    TREBOR
    20th Nov 2018
    5:37pm
    You got a direct government link? In history you need a primary source and then secondary and tertiary for any acceptance of a story.... only blogs get away with single source, real or imagined.
    Rosret
    21st Nov 2018
    12:22pm
    Almost a grey hair. I am not lying!
    What is allowed and how he was treated are two entirely different things.
    Drewbie
    19th Nov 2018
    11:44am
    I'm 3 mths short of 58 yrs, have endured a back injury for the past 8 yrs that's unaffordable to rectify by surgery. Due to draconian changes to Disability Pension eligibility requirements, I don't qualify.

    11 yrs ago when my wife got a " modestly decent paying job " I chose the " home - dad " option; thus receiving parenting payment for 3 yrs before it was summarily cancelled ( 2010 ) due to legislated sunset clauses, with no prior notice. It also was subject to deductions based on my wife's fortnightly income. Regularly I received half my payment, less than or none at all.

    4 yrs later due to unexpected illness, my wife was briefly hospitalised & off work for 2 mths, so at age 55 I subsequently applied for social security support & after going thru the grist mill, was foisted onto Newstart & the putrid firehoops that followed. Despite providing requested updated evidence re my back injury, again I wasn't deemed enough of an invalid for the D. P.

    The last 4 yrs have been the worst experience ever personally. Faithfully reporting the wife's income via phone, completing online courses to make myself acceptably " employable ", jumping thru useless job application hoops & finally being cut off again by aforementioned legislated criteria, " because my wife earned too much over 26 weeks ". Is it any wonder I chose " NOT " to go thru that again.

    Have I worked when it was available? Oh Hell Yes!! And proudly enjoyed being a taxpayer whenever doing so.
    The Transition Payment concept for those 55 yrs & over is a brilliant idea & should be set at the Aged Pension level. + it " should never be " subjected to any deductions/conditions whatsoever, due to a partner's income. There'd be less competition in the job market resulting in economic improvement, unemployment levels substantially drop as younger folk gain jobs & become taxpayers, etc.

    But no. Treasury Boffins & their political masters toss that in the " Too Hard Basket ".
    Rae
    19th Nov 2018
    12:21pm
    Someone should compile a book of centrelink stuff ups and inhumane actions.

    I know of one journalist who wrote," the short goodbye" about the current system of Centrelink and privatised job providers.

    We hadn't quite got to slave labour back then like we have now.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    5:23pm
    A book of al the lies told to Centrelink would make much better reading. Some of the things I have been told are truly inventive.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    9:02pm
    But then, you know an amazing array of thieves and liars, OG.. one is left to ponder the circles in which you move..... and the fact that lying down with dogs gives you fleas....
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    9:03pm
    now look who's getting personal and insulting
    hypocrite much ?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:51am
    Truth hurts, Lothario? OG is constantly telling us about the alleged cheats, liars, bludgers, gamblers and drunks he knows. Seems he associates with the scum of society. But then, judging by his meanness and nastiness, and his claims to live on fresh air and run around naked, I doubt anyone BUT scum would ever want to associate with him.
    Old Geezer
    20th Nov 2018
    11:10am
    ROFL.

    I guess that's the price I pay for being the poorest of my friends.
    TREBOR
    20th Nov 2018
    5:39pm
    Ah - so it's not a sin to slag people - but it's a sin of hypocrisy to give back in kind after enormous provocation?

    Methinks you have no firm grasp of yourself, Lotharian.... take to the hills for three or four days and meditate on yourself... consider your views... review your views... self-criticise and cleanse your soul....
    old frt
    19th Nov 2018
    11:54am
    Trebor.
    No one on average wages has paid enough tax(around $3-400,000) in their lifetime to cover their age pension payment for life.The people that did pay more tax are not entitled to a pension and are now mostly self funded (excluding x public servants who are on defined benefit pensions).
    Rosret
    19th Nov 2018
    12:08pm
    Except the money we conglomerative paid in taxes for the pension should have been invested in projects that generated wealth and growth in our nation.
    The same can be said of self funded private scheme that have returned so little in comparison to an exploding property market.

    We are in trouble and the retire superannuation scheme is going to become a bigger issue as more and more baby boomers retire. Coupled with that the next generation can see it is flawed and aren't putting anymore in super than is absolutely necessary.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:25pm
    I agree. Families today earning less than $60,000 get more in benefits than they pay in tax. Many people on the pension would not have paid nearly enough tax to pay for it at all.
    Rae
    19th Nov 2018
    12:29pm
    Defined benefit fund members bought units after tax. They did not get the 9% guarantee but did get an employer component. It was still very expensive. Anyone who saved that much for that long after tax would have quite a big lump sum.

    There was nothing to stop people from saving except their spending habits.

    Anyone working an average income job for 45 years would have paid around $600 000 in taxes.

    My job had few deductions and I paid the 36% level.

    The only time I didn't was during a period I was farming. Great deductions there. Business people often paid little tax at all.

    Rosret is right. We are in trouble. The income producing assets our high taxes built have all been sold and the proceeds squandered or paid to the politicians brokering the deals.
    MICK
    19th Nov 2018
    1:43pm
    That's how a progressive tax system works old frt. AS long as self funded retirees can earn at least the equivalent of the old age pension the system is fair. When they do not it should be topped up....something the current ratbag government will not have a bar of as they come after all but the wealthy with a blood lust on steroids.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    3:02pm
    Mick what happens when interests rates are 17% and self funded retires earn twice the old age pension?
    Old Man
    19th Nov 2018
    3:09pm
    Oldfrt, I believe that the tax paid in our working life went to pay for welfare/pensions whatever for those entitled to them. Those funds were never set aside for our old age. The welfare/pensions being paid now are paid for by the current taxpayers (God bless them) and that is what is causing some angst. Whereas in our days there were 4 taxpayers for each welfare/pension recipient, that ratio is changing and future projections are that there will be 2 taxpayers for 3 recipients.
    MICK
    19th Nov 2018
    3:32pm
    Don't listen to the BS Old frt.
    Taxes went to infrastructure, bureaucracy, welfare and waste.

    We all know that well off Australians do not want to pay pensions because they have their own schemes and have no need of the OAG. They put away money over a lifetime with political handouts which they refuse to call what they are: rich man's welfare.

    We all know that well off Australians do not want to fund Medicare. Same deal in 'The Land of the Free' (not). That is somebody else's responsibility.

    We all know that well off Australians do not want to pay unemployment benefits because 'those lazy bludgers' should 'find a job....even if there are not enough jobs to go around, which is the case.

    We all know that well off Australians do not want to fund public education because they have their own system.

    We all know know that well off Australians do not want to fund Medicare. But they insist on using public hospitals for nix.

    Ok OM, don't get me going! Your take on society is the typical rich man crying poverty and you fail to EVER consider that a society is made up of all classes and it is not your right nor the right of the top end of society to take everything and leave the rest of society destitute. That is not what team players do and believe me when I say countries are teams where EVERYBODY has a part to play and money (THE MEANS OF EXCHANGE!!!) to contribute. You know full well that a PROGRESSIVE TAXATION SYSTEM was put together to make sure everybody could survive. Your model is the American model where the 0.1% own 90% of everything and the rest can go whistle. You should be ashamed of yourself. Disreputable man who needs to go live in Syria or Iran. You may feel comfortable in such a place.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    3:53pm
    Never ceases to amaze me how deceitful and ungrateful people like Mick are

    High income and wealth individuals are carrying this country by funding 80% of the tax take

    Yet Mick continues to spread his bulldust propaganda on behalf of his thieving socialist mates
    Old Man
    19th Nov 2018
    5:12pm
    Gee MICK, you have really gone over the top this time. What you have said bears no resemblance to my post. If you get someone to read it to you you might suddenly realise that all I have said is that taxes go to pay welfare/pensions for current recipients. There is no mention, nay, not even a hint that anything has been said about classes or any end of society. Australia is, above all, an egalitarian society where Jack is as good as his master. You are entitled to an opinion but you seem to not realise that others also have the same rights and they don't have to agree with yours. Why would you suggest that a Caucasian Christian move to Syria or Iran? I note your union bully tactics are seeping through; can't dispute the argument with logic so attack the messenger with personal abuse.
    Retired Knowall
    19th Nov 2018
    5:21pm
    I can understand the argument that those that worked and paid tax should be able to claim the OAP, but, how do they justify paying the OAP to those that have never paid tax?
    Do the sums and tell me how long it takes to spend the amount of the tax paid before the bucket is dry.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    5:25pm
    Price Waterhouse have designed a new tax system for Australia. It includes a flat tax of 30% tax on all investment income. Another win for high income earners.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:02pm
    That money paid in by everyone, in a fund and invested, would pay7 everyone a pension on the proceeds... it doesn't just sit there, oldfrt... it is supposed to be used for investment in solid infrastructure for this nation, with a long term return from the borrowing agency, called interest....

    Price Waterhouse are wanting to force investors to pay more tax??? How odd.....
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:18pm
    money paid in by everyone, in a fund and invested,for retirement is called super - thats why it was introduced

    As for your post -
    **coughs** (bullshit... bullshit)....
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    8:51pm
    Super isn't for everyone, Lothario. It's yet another rort for the greedy rich. Huge tax concessions for high income earners to load their coffers with money they don't need, and nil or almost nil for the battlers who genuinely need help. Situation normal. Stinking greedy prevail.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:53pm
    Rainey - are you Trebor's female alter ego

    I'm beginning to think so - you both remind me of cartoon characters
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    9:09pm
    You remind me of a kid who reads too many cartoons and has nothing of value to add to any conversation... sprung, methinks... and a name like 'Lothario' ... what a dreamer....

    (Lothario...**snuckles under armpit** .. public derision and laughter were the cure for olbaid/diablo.. another dreamer filled with hubris and an unwarranted feeling of superiority while having nothijng to o0ffer... perhaps you are one and the same?)...

    Just because free-thinking, intelligent, and capable people see things in a very similar way does not mean they even know one another, Loathie... I've never met Rainey or Mick or OG or Rosret or anyone else here.. but we all share some views...

    Your mistake (among many) is assuming that anyone with a differing view from yours is a dimwit and should be treated with scorn and contempt by you (of all people - you've proven nothing here yet!)...... but you only make that false assumption because you cannot follow the reasoning of others... nor do you display respect for them....

    Indeed, sir - you are a failure... and a troublemaker....
    MICK
    19th Nov 2018
    9:56pm
    The truth hurts the rich and the posts from the usual suspects is what it is. Smoked slamon anyone? With champagne?
    What a deceitful lot you are. Rich men doing business and supporting the worst government in living history!
    MICK
    19th Nov 2018
    11:05pm
    OM - having calmed down I may have gone for the jugular. Apologies if I have been too tough but I keep reading the aristocratic lineage into your posts. If you believe looking after those less fortunate than us is a burden then you may consider how the well off might feel if their glass castles were taken from them. It can happen to any one of us and life has a way of cutting some of us down to size at times.
    Perhaps I should have simply appealed to some deep rooted empathy in you but I'm not real sure there is any.
    Unions? I was forced to belong to one for 20 years but as a member. Never a representative....although some days I think I could do a better job than some. In case you have not realised unions are a shadow of their former self for the very reason that representatives became lazy and some acted with disregard for a fair go for the other side of humanity. The side that wants it all. They paid the ultimate price. Their jobs.
    I suggest unions are better represented today for the most part.
    TREBOR
    20th Nov 2018
    5:43pm
    None so blind - Keating cunningly INTRODUCED superannuation... AFTER governments respective had already stolen the fund that should have been the basis of a national superannuation scheme..... hardly a gift, eh?

    It seems that handed a piece of gold you would label it bullshit if it was not from Costello's hands...

    Me? I'm about to razz Bill Shorten about the current mode of Labor..... and advise him in no uncertain terms that should his party win, it is only by default and not on the value of their policies for ALL.
    PlanB
    19th Nov 2018
    11:55am
    New start is a pittance and I have no idea how folks manage on it, what with looking for jobs/ paying for transport also a computer -- --as most job searches are done on a computer these days -- ALL pensions need looking into as it is abhorrent that people are expected to live on such a pittance -- when you think those bludgers in the Government spend what a person gets on a FULL pension they spend on one Luncheon!
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:14pm
    My grandkids at uni are on Youth Allowance and they save money on it. Youth Allowance is less than Newstart.
    Sundays
    19th Nov 2018
    1:44pm
    Sure OG, but do they have a home they pay a mortgage on, or commercial rent or all the expenses someone suddenly unemployed later in life has
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    3:00pm
    They don't live at home. They live away from home in a share house with their mates and have all those expenses too.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:03pm
    **coughs** (bullshit... bullshit)....
    OnlyDaughter
    19th Nov 2018
    12:08pm
    Old Geezer: I have posted this before, but I will post it again for your benefit and in an effort to limit your continual bleating over "welfare" and "its bludging recipients" and their drain on the public purse.

    After WWll, the Australian government set up a fund specifically to save for current and future issues for unemployment, sickness and the aged pension. Everyone contributed as part of their tax burden and the amount they paid into this fund was shown on their annual Group Certificate as a value separate from the actual income tax they had paid.
    This fund was set up at a time of full employment and reasonable interest rates and it grew and grew into a massive fund simply because there was little demand on its resources. That was until Malcolm Fraser came long....you remember him Old Geezer, he was a LIBERAL/NATIONAL PARTY Prime Minister. Well dear old Malcolm decided there was no need for this huge fund to continue and so he took all the money from this fund and rolled it into Consolidated Revenue and subsequently spent it. In effect, this LIBERAL/NATIONAL PARTY Prime Minister stole from the future of all Australian people as if it still existed up until today, it would go a very long way to covering the very costs that you continually bleat about.
    Because the legislation setting up this fund was not rescinded, the Group Certificates of all Australian wage earners continued to show these two figures for many years. I am unsure whether the legislation setting up this fund has actually been rescinded or otherwise, but some time ago Group Certificates have since morphed into Payment Summaries.
    I was reminded about this sad story and the heinous actions of this former LIBERAL/NATIONAL PARTY Prime Minister the other day, when I heard another unfortunate former Prime Minister, Paul Keating, speaking about setting up special funds to fund care of the aged when their SuperAnn ran out.
    So Australian people having need of income support are not bludgers or a drain on the public purse. They are simply taking back what Malcolm Fraser and his government stole from the Australia populace.

    And in addition OG, regarding your comments regarding people preferring to live on Newstart. Rubbish. You say that you work in this area, but to date you have maintained that you are a self-funded retiree who can live off a very small amount of money, the equivalent of NewStart - you cannot have it both ways. I have worked with governments of both political ideologies and I can assure you that there are few people who rort the system. Yes, there are a few who do this but I can assure you that the vast majority of recipients of Newstart would far rather have a paying job but are brow-beaten by the system into depression and low self-esteem by submitting application after application for jobs for which they never gain the courtesy of a response, let alone an interview. This applies as much to younger people as it does for over 55s, most of whom will never be given the opportunity of working again, despite any excellent qualifications and practical experience they may hold.
    So rather than keep tipping the bucket on those needing a helping hand, try a little humility coupled with a lot of empathy for a change.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:13pm
    That was last century and it's about time you forgot about it. We are now in a new century with mew rules.

    Yes I do work as a volunteer when I am asked in lots of areas as I expertise in many areas of finance. I work as a volunteer as I don't need any extra money and I want to work on my terms not those of others.
    Rae
    19th Nov 2018
    12:36pm
    No OG we are not going to forget about it new century or not.

    Maybe we take the Future Fund to compensate. That would be fair.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    12:40pm
    OnlyDaughter, OG's first sentence - like all of his posts - evidences his arrogance and contempt for those in need and those who have suffered social injustice.

    Of course you are right. Humans have an innate desire to engage in productive endeavour and to earn respect. They WANT to work. But when society bashes them about badly, they lose their trust and confidence in the system and withdraw from acceptance of social norms and society's demands of them. If there were a lot more recognition of the causes of people's problems and behaviour, rather than focus on condemnation and punishment, we could go a long way to resolving social problems. But people like OG prove conclusively why the problems will continue to get worse. OMG! Who would want him volunteering in any area? With his arrogance and nastiness, he would not be genuinely helpful to anyone, but rather to great harm.
    Cowboy Jim
    19th Nov 2018
    1:55pm
    Malcolm Fraser was more interested in giving money to his black mates in Africa than leaving some in the pension fund. He gave us that horrible Mugabe fellow in Rhodesia.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:05pm
    You can lead an Old Geezer to water, Only Daughter, but you can't force him to drink of the waters of truth and reality - he chooses to avoid those....

    No matter how many times you explain it in small words to him - he simply does not wish to listen.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    9:32pm
    He thinks that a thief should not be forced to repay what he has stolen..... well - we the people don't allow some mythical 'statute of limitations' for some crimes whilst acting as a servant......

    BTW - what about that Future Fund that Don Pedro and Don Juan spirited off to a tax haven to ensure their never-ending income from us? When is that coming home, OG, and taking its rightful place in the National future Fund For All - as Howard and Costello should have been doing with their resources boom money instead of throwing it around on tax cuts to the unworthy?

    Beeziness eez good in El Grande Republica Da San Austrodor - eef you hol' zee kees to zee National Treasury an' you make zee rules yoursel' for yoursel' an' your compadres...

    Howard and Costello acted like any Central American dictator - robbed the national treasury and salted billions away in a tax haven.....

    Criminals all..... we're gonna need a bigger guillotine...
    Farside
    19th Nov 2018
    12:25pm
    both payments cannot be woefully inadequate, most agree one is obviously less woeful than the other; it just depends who you ask.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:27pm
    Both payments are only meant for the basics of living not for luxuries as well. If you want luxuries you should have saved for them.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    12:48pm
    Only the lowest and nastiest egotistical SCUM subscribe to the view that the disadvantaged deserve nothing more than the basics, OG.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:58pm
    OGR that what welfare was designed to do but people now expect luxuries so are very disappointed.
    Cowboy Jim
    19th Nov 2018
    2:07pm
    OLd Geezer, when the age pension was introduced a private car was a luxury, today it is a basic right for many people. Yes I saved for luxury but that that does not mean I have to spend my savings on necessary things instead of a pension a non saver is getting. My pension is for necessities and my savings for my luxuries. Just go sit up top and feel superior if you like. Some people are more self righteous than self funded.
    almost a grey hair
    19th Nov 2018
    2:19pm
    cowboy jim I agree with what you are saying and that is the exact reason for arguing for the universal pension, no asset or income test like they have in first world countries like NZ (leaders not followers)
    I want and will get thru my own study and knowledge of the system a full or close to a full age pension as since even before the super guarantee came in I put into a pension fund and saved ,we both salary sacrificed till it hurt and when the day comes they want us to actually rec less than someone else, go figure.
    By the way Nick Bruining has updated his book (don't panic) and is a superb read and it will become a retirees bible
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    2:55pm
    Cowboy Jim my savings get spent on the necessities of life.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:06pm
    Double the pension now and double unemployment benefits...
    Farside
    21st Nov 2018
    1:08pm
    @Trebor, doubling both pension and unemployment simply increases the gap between the two payments.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    4:02pm
    So what? It isn't the gap that matters. It's that the payment is adequate to sustain the lifestyle to which the recipient is, in a DECENT civilised society, reasonably entitled.
    Farside
    22nd Nov 2018
    10:56am
    @Rainey, you are nothing if not consistent with putting the hand out for more money from the welfare bucket – greed is good, right? The gap matters because in a decent, civilised society someone has to pay for it. Lifting the net for those on the bottom should be the priority, so the question is how much is an adequate and sustainable level for unemployed, disability and pension recipients alike.

    Doubling both payments without rational support is policy nonsense but for argument's sake doubling Newstart puts it about $100 a week above the current pension, which most also agree should be higher. An increase of that order should be enough for the Pensioners if it is good enough for the unemployed; pensioners do not need to be paid anything like $900 per week from the public purse, which is more than some low income tax paying workers make, that would result from doubling the pension and increasing the burden upon taxpayers.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:24pm
    Farside, I don't get any kind of pension. I get nothing from what you wrongly call ''the welfare bucket''. But the ''greed is good'' mentality is the mentality of the rich, who are too selfish to acknowledge that others have the right to a reasonably comfortable life. Someone has to pay for poverty too - and ultimately the whole of society suffers for it, but mostly the children. If the greedy rich paid their way fairly, there would be ample to provide a decent lifestyle for all.
    Farside
    25th Nov 2018
    1:53pm
    @Rainey, I'm not suggesting you receive a pension personally (you have made it clear many times that you you have overcome many obstacles, self made, caring for sick yada yada yada), however you do advocate hard for the pensioners. I'm just saying that the unemployed and unemployable are experiencing more poverty than the pensioners and should be prioritised in divvying up the welfare bucket. Greed is not restricted to the rich and indeed many wealthy are generous in terms of charitable support and helping to improve the lives of those less fortunate than themselves. I share your sentiments about poverty and it being a social problem however poverty is not alleviated just by taxing the rich but also by prioritising those who need relief most.
    Chris B T
    19th Nov 2018
    12:27pm
    Not All Unemployed Receive New Start or Government Incentives for Prospective Employers to Employ.
    New Start no Matter How Small in Monetary Value and Job Placement Help, IS BETTER THAN NOTHING.
    {;-(
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:30pm
    Exactly. Just ask those kids who leave school and can't get a job but because their parents earn too much they get no welfare until they are 22.
    Chris B T
    19th Nov 2018
    1:01pm
    Older Australians OUT NUMBER THEM
    Young Kids Have Education Options. At 22 receive A BENEFIT :WOW At least They Can Have.
    Still Better Than Nothing.
    Older ones IS OUT SIGHT OUT OF MIND
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:09pm
    At the Battle of Arnhem 1944, Maj. Gen. Roy Urquhart received his food ration for one day - a boiled sweet - I'm sure that was better than nothing...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    4:00pm
    But wait... OG. According to you, there is nobody who genuinely ''can't get a job''. You claim jobs are out there in abundance. So why shouldn't parents support their 'bludging offspring''?

    Then again, maybe this is just another case of OG changing his story to suit his current desired argument. He never has had any interest in truth or fact, let alone respect for others.
    Kato
    19th Nov 2018
    12:32pm
    The first Welfare sector that should be completely overhauled are Politicians wages and perks and the Welfare spent on running Cantberra.And before you all jump in pay peanuts you get peanuts yadda yadda 90% of the current politicians wouldn't get a job in the mainstream workforce unless it's there own or a mate business.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    12:58pm
    Not too sure what that would achieve.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:13pm
    It's called leading by example - I'm sure you have no idea, OG. Gotta cut the dead wood out to allow the vine to prosper....
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:27pm
    lol if you cut out the dead wood in politics we wouldn't have one politician left in Canberra. Sounds like a good idea Trebor. Cull the lot & start again, can't be any worse than the current crop of lying, cheating, self righteous bastards that are there now. lol
    Old Man
    19th Nov 2018
    12:47pm
    This thread gives the impression that it's an "us" and "them" scenario, "us" being age pensioners and "them" being Newstart. Whilst I may agree that Newstart is not enough for some people in some areas and under some circumstances, I can't see why age pensioners have to forsake a rise in their pension to allow those on Newstart to achieve a rise in their pittance.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:15pm
    Now you're talking..... some seek to make it sound like an "either/or" - only enough money to do one....(LMAO).. time for governments here to cut out the wastage on their pet dreams and get on with running the nation for everyone... been slugging Bro Shorten on Twitter along those lines for a while now... can't be bothered with the other lot - they're a shot duck...
    GeorgeM
    19th Nov 2018
    11:28pm
    It was a defective poll. The real outcome recommended by most should have been that BOTH need to be increased - if there was such a question. This resource-rich country can easily afford it if we get the priorities right in Canberra, and reasonable taxes are actually collected wherever income is earned by companies or individuals.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    1:26pm
    Past & current governments should hang their heads in shame & future governments should fix it, but alas, Australian politicians on all sides are to interested in themselves & making sure their rich mates at the top end of town get richer.
    This report says it all
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/12/02/which-countries-have-the-highest-levels-of-poverty-for-pensioners-infographic/#77ffdb08216f
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    2:46pm
    Even if you gathered up all the wealth and distributed it evenly the same people who have today would soon have it back.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:44pm
    No OG. That's a BS claim that the privileged use to justify their disgusting greed. The reality is that if you redistributed it, there would quickly be rich and poor again - but NOT the same people who had it before. Lots of the idiots who inherited wealth would be poor and lots of smart, enterprising folk who never got an even break would be rich. My partner and I proved that theory conclusively. We rose from abject poverty to modest self-funded comfort, but it took thirty years because we couldn't access capital or the benefits the rich enjoy - like contacts and influence. If we'd had a handout when we were starting out, we'd be wealthy today. Conversely, I know people who were born rich who manage to stuff up everything they try to do. If Daddy didn't bail them out again and again, they'd be broke.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    7:51pm
    If I had a handout when I was starting out I'd be mega rich then. I didn't have much wealth until I retired and after being retired for over 2 decades I now make more money that I ever did while employed. I wish I gad retired a lot earlier now instead of having a job. No wonder a job means just over broke.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:17pm
    Thank you for pointing out yet again the rapacious nature of unconstrained capitalism, OG.... that's precisely why the Robber Barons were outed and ousted decades ago.... no place for them any more in a civilised society... except on a scaffold... don't laugh...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:55am
    Yes, OG, a job means just over broke, which is precisely why those born disadvantaged seldom get the opportunity to be anything other than ''just over broke''. No wonder some don't want to work! But rich SCUM insist that those born disadvantaged must remain forever either slaving to be just over broke, or starving and scorned on a demeaning handout. See, the rich MUST insist that's how it has to be, because they can only continue to grow their obscene wealth by exploiting people who have no valid choices in life.
    You are getting dangerously close to admitting the truth, OG. Be careful! You might accidentally expose the real motives behind your continuing lies and narcissistic greed.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    1:28pm
    Hmmm let’s see
    If you asked anyone on welfare If what they receive is too low , how many would say No o have enough . Please don’t give me any more
    Cowboy Jim
    19th Nov 2018
    2:09pm
    You are spot on Lothario! Gimme more every time; I am happy with the part pension but would not knock back an increase. But I do not DEMAND one either.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:12pm
    Good for you, lads.... now let's look at those who need more...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    8:58am
    If you asked any of the filthy rich, they would say ''I am entitled to more'' and they'd find some way - likely devious or dishonest - to get it. Tax avoidance probably number one. But look at the jerk who was just found to be ripping off Nissan etc. $23.4 million a year was not enough. So typical of the overpaid fat cats. And they are the same SCUM who make comments like Lothario's.
    Fisherman
    19th Nov 2018
    3:15pm
    This century will be very different from the previous one.
    As you probably noticed, Trump is bringing jobs back to America. Business in America is improving and manufacturing industries are returning. They were exported to China from America and the other 5 eyes only countries because they were pollution intensive like steel making. Traditional jobs in mining, manufacturing, distribution and retail will reduce due to automation, robotics and artificial intelligence (AI). Even doctors will find it hard to compete with their robotic and AI replacements. What is the solution for growing the economy when the means of production only benefit the super rich? How will our consumer-driven economy continue to function if the masses have no income? Modern monetary theory offers some solutions if the Australian Government is awake. However, I know that people like the mean spirited current assistant treasurer have no time for 21st Century solutions to 21st Century problems.
    To remove any doubt about what is coming, I suggest you view the video on the Mercedes Factory currently in operation in Germany. Mercedes-Benz plant in Bremen, Bremen plant to produce additional model of the C Class model range as of 2011:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9X6mTy8kyU
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    3:18pm
    2011 ???

    Anyways love Mercedes. Will not buy another car. The A and B classes are made for Europe, But Class up are great cars
    Looking forward to trading mine in for a 2019 model in a few months
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:46am
    What a sick individual you are, Lothario. Boasting about being able to afford a luxury car, but screaming that the disadvantaged get too much. Typical of the rich man's greed and selfishness. No doubt you got your wealth by exploitation and avoiding tax.
    moke
    19th Nov 2018
    3:28pm
    I realise that newstart is very low, but when one considers the extras many pensioners have to pay out for Medical expenses & Medical Prescriptions it eats a great hole in their income and unless they have used an enormous amount of medical services they get no discount on payments until almost the end of the year, I know I am one. visit to Cardiologist $550 and Orthopedic $150 + Dentist $235 already out of pocket with out medicine Phone & Power Acc.. I still wonder with Newstart How do so many of them afford TATTOOS that are very often visible on the bodies of the unemployed, Smoking & Alcohol etc then wonder why they cannot afford the basics of life. Identification Ration cards would be a great idea
    Jim
    19th Nov 2018
    3:55pm
    We keep getting the same polls regarding taxation, and who is paying what, and statements like the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, this is an idiolgy statement used around the world by left wing organisations, it is a myth, the gap between rich and poorer workers might have grown but the poor are still better off than they were in the past, the question should be is the assistance given to the more needy enough, the straight answer is no, as I have stated in the past many people’s issues are different and a one size fits all is ridiculous, many pensioners have it pretty good, many are struggling, no matter which party is in power none of them seem to have a handle on how to solve the problem, Newstart is meant to be a short term solution until a job can be found, unfortuanately some people find it difficult to find employment for a variety of reasons, it might be related to health issues, or it could be related to age issues, whatever the reason these people need to be treated differently, and with some dignity, I am not stating I have the answer, it’s extremely complicated, but I haven’t seen either party address the issues in a productive way.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:19pm
    As Cool Hand Luke said :- "I wish you'd stop being so good to me, Captain!"
    Pass the Ductape
    19th Nov 2018
    3:56pm
    I'm still wondering why the common old labourer still can't get tax benefits when using his car to go to work, whereas the 'business owner' can!
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    4:00pm
    The common old labourer can if he has to take bulky good to work and has no where secure to store them.
    Pass the Ductape
    19th Nov 2018
    4:50pm
    Doesn't account for the 'business owner' who uses their vehicle for running family around town - minus bulky goods - and still claims travel expenses on tax.

    Or similarly.....a tradesperson who owns a 4x4 with business sign on the door and claims tax relief for fuel costs, for a weekend fishing trip to the beach.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    5:27pm
    Tradesmen needs 4WDs as they get stuck on sites fixing stuff.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Nov 2018
    9:31am
    Ha-ha-ha. Yes - a lot of tradies fixing things on the beach during the weekend it seems.
    Lothario
    20th Nov 2018
    1:40pm
    They only can claim the actual Km used for business . They have to keep a detailed log book
    And I believe there is a maximum they can claim
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Nov 2018
    6:20pm
    Oh - and I'm sure that's how they all do it Lothario!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    3:43pm
    Stop by a work site on their way to the restaurant for dinner and claim a work trip. Make sure they meet someone and do a quote for a job they won't get at every holiday destination, then claim it as a work trip. The rorts are endless.
    Pass the Ductape
    21st Nov 2018
    5:23pm
    You got it OGR.... The rorts ARE endless!
    Lothario
    21st Nov 2018
    5:29pm
    You must hang around with lots of thieves and rorters Rainey

    The people I know only claim what is legal on the tax returns

    I would never want to put myself in a position where I would get audited and fined big time. Not worth the hassle.
    Get a good accountant and only claim in accordance with the tax laws and legitimate loopholes
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    9:30pm
    Lothario, the world of more affluent is a world of rorters and thieves. That's why we have a deficit. Because the affluent are too greedy to pay their fair share of tax.
    Pass the Ductape
    22nd Nov 2018
    6:20am
    Right on the button again OGR.

    Lothario... sorry cobber, but your reference to 'a good accountant and legitimate loopholes' tends to lend credence to my original statement and the point I was hoping to make.
    musicveg
    19th Nov 2018
    4:12pm
    Creating another type of payment is only going to complicate things even more, they cannot even handle those on Newstart and Pensions properly with long waiting lists for pensioners. Just up both and the economy will get better with people spending more. Does not matter where it is spent it all goes around and comes around. Crime will go down too.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:46pm
    Universal wage. Solve everything.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:46pm
    Universal wage. Solve everything.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    6:48pm
    Universal wage - stupid idea

    I dont know how you even made the small sum of money you say you've made. Dumb luck obviously
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    7:52pm
    We already have a universal wage. It is called welfare.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:24pm
    Leave it out, Lothie..... if you can't answer the issue raised by Rainey - leave it out. You sound more like that twerp 'diablo' every day, who by fleeing and then resurrecting as another shows he is nothing of what he says... same as you ....- respect others or suffer disrespect in return....

    ....and you know we don't have 'welfare' here, OG - stop flogging that dead horse... you admitted above that you copped and kept the Kevin Kash - after you told us for ages you never take government money since it is 'welfare'.

    You are a laugh a minute....
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    8:46pm
    No luck, Lothario. The universal wage is being increasingly recognised as essential to resolve the growing problems created by a greedy capitalist society. But of course the greedy privileged hate it, because it ends economic slavery and reduces their power to exploit.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:49pm
    Rainey - many idiotic socialist countries especially scandinavian tried universal wages.
    Abandoned it as it was a complete disaster
    Get with the program sweetheart
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:43am
    Wrong, Lothario. If you researched properly, instead of jumping on bigoted nonsense reports written for political gain, you would know that there has NEVER been a proper test of universal wage. Every test run was cancelled the instant it began to appear beneficial to the poor but not the rich.
    inextratime
    19th Nov 2018
    4:26pm
    OG's arguments are so skewed it makes horrible reading eg everyone should be taxed a the same rate. Sooooo if someone owns a house that is worth $1,000,000 and they sell it for a 10% profit i.e $100,000 should they keep all the money if a person who sells their house for $500,000 at a 10% profit only gets $50,000 profit ! Under OGs rules the rich would get filthy rich and rest could do whatever they liked !!
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    4:30pm
    Your argument is rubbish
    The first person will pay tax at his marginal rate on the $100k or $50k if sold after 1 year

    The second person will pay tax on $50l or $25 k if sold after 1 year on their marginal rate

    What is your problem other than envy and greed ???
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    5:30pm
    Single rate tax creates incentive to do better. Rich will get richer no matter what system we have as they do things very differently to Joe average.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    5:40pm
    Even @ single rate, the person making higher profits pays more absolute tax
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:26pm
    As Kerry Packer said, OG - it's not as if the rich and their mates in government are doing much good with the money - why give them more for nothing?

    80% tax on the rich.... that way you might actually get close to their real income tax.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:28pm
    Absolute rubbish
    What a preaching holier than thou, narcissistic attitude
    RIch pay tax on their taxable income just like everyone else

    To accuse them of evading taxes shows the workings of a small mind full of envy and hate
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:39am
    Rich take pride in avoiding taxes. They advertise constantly the methods they use and claim an ENTITLEMENT - even an OBLIGATION - to avoid taxes. Note that the methods they use are never available to the poor. Just take superannuation tax concessions for example. The guy on a 15% tax rate gets NOTHING. The guy on a 45% tax rate saves 30%. A rort for the rich and greedy - making any claims about super being a scheme to enable people to save for their own retirement a total lie. That's just one of thousands of rorts created BY THE RICH FOR THE RICH. There's no envy or hate in telling it like it is, Lothario. But I do understand how you rich folk panic when there's a threat of exposure that might lead to change.
    Old Geezer
    20th Nov 2018
    11:04am
    Guy on 45% pays 30% tax on his super contribution so only saves 15% which is the same as most other people do.
    Lothario
    20th Nov 2018
    11:34am
    OG super contributions are taxed at a flat 15% for a maximum of 25k pa so if your on a 45% tax rate the rich save 30%
    OGR is correct you are wrong
    Old Geezer
    20th Nov 2018
    11:40am
    If you earn more than $250,000 you pay 30% tax on your super contributions.

    https://www.superguide.com.au/boost-your-superannuation/double-contributions-tax-high-income-earners
    Lothario
    20th Nov 2018
    11:47am
    OG 250k would be close to the cut off contribution of 25k pa for employer contributions @ the current 9.5% minimum & some employers pay more but can't pay less. ALL contributions up to 25k pa are only taxed at a flat 15% anything over 25k pa is taxed at a different rate.
    The 25k pa cap is both employer & salary sacrifice contributions.
    Only a very small % of workers would be earning 250k pa or more.
    robmur
    19th Nov 2018
    4:29pm
    Costing $3.3 billion to increase the Aged Pension and Newstart is chicken feed, especially when the money is spent by the recipients and therefore benefiting the economy. A good move. Are you reading all of this ScoMo? By the way, have a look at the spending promised by Chairman Dan Andrews, Premier of the Socialist Republic of Victoria - $97 billion at the last count. Talk about madness when many are struggling to survive and are living below the POVERTY LINE.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    4:32pm
    Chicken feed to you because you're not paying for it

    No one is going hungry. Please stop with this below the poverty line rubbish
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    5:19pm
    I agree it is BS the pension is not below the poverty line at all.
    Retired Knowall
    19th Nov 2018
    5:39pm
    Great idea robmur, lets increase the OAP and newstart by $100/week. That would flood the economy with money and everyone would be happy.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:38pm
    Everyone except the tax-avoiding Scrooges who thrive on seeing others struggle, Retired Knowall - namely OG and Lothario. They would be miserable.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    6:41pm
    Hey Rainey, that's an awful thing to say about someone you dont know
    I actually give and do a lot of work for charity
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    19th Nov 2018
    6:45pm
    I know enough Lothario - from your posts. And lots of miserable, nasty Scrooges who thrive on seeing others suffer do charity work to enhance their image. Means nothing at all.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    7:44pm
    I don't have an image problem and I certainly don't do things to enhance my image to anybody.
    Old Geezer
    19th Nov 2018
    7:54pm
    I am yet to see anyone really struggle in Australia. Other countries definitely.
    TREBOR
    19th Nov 2018
    8:35pm
    What part of 'it is returned to the economy HERE and virtually immediately, thus incurring taxation and being recoup0ed over a very short term - do you lot NOT understand?

    Nobody is 'paying' for it - the pensioners and unemployed are 'paying for it' by returning it to the Treasury..... the ONLY ones not 'paying it' are those who circumvent it into tax havens or hoard it in deadstock for themselves such as swimming pools etc... it is the RICH who do not pay their way and who are a drain on the economy.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    8:37pm
    Spoken like a true true green eyed monster . Well done.
    How sad it must be to live life that way
    Cheezil61
    19th Nov 2018
    10:23pm
    Hhmmm Could the currenct male suicide stats reflect financial hardship/lack of money to cover basic living costs ??? (regardless of employment statuts)? Instead of being reactive govt should be proactive & do sometthing about this situation by realizing why these people are suiciding rather than deploying another package/program (at taxpayers expense) to deal with end result! Yes increase peoples incomes so they match basic living costs. Ffs $275 per week income v $250 per week average rental where i live - how simple is the maths but no one in govt cares about that because most of them are on $200,000pa plus salaries.. Not hardto see where to get funding from to help the down & outters contemplating suicide because they cant afford a roof over their heads & food on the table whilst these greedy pollies are living the high life!!
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    10:26pm
    And all the other benefits, lurks & purks pollies get.
    Lothario
    19th Nov 2018
    10:27pm
    Oh & allowances etc
    GeorgeM
    19th Nov 2018
    11:22pm
    Cassandra Goldie is a fool who helped the Libs to stuff up hundreds of thousands of part-pensioners by supporting (with the help of the Greens) changes to the Assets Test implemented in Jan 2017.

    The poll did not ask a Key Question: Should BOTH Age Pension & Newstart be increased? Also, by how much? I believe that is in fact the wish of the majority, however those statistics are missing.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    20th Nov 2018
    7:35am
    And Labor has just officially confirmed it supported - and continues to support - that wrongful change. They only pretended to oppose it. Just as Libs pretend to oppose the franking credit change. In reality, both parties are working together for the same ends and just playing tag to decide who will APPEAR to be the bad guy on each proposed policy change.
    Old Geezer
    20th Nov 2018
    11:17am
    Cassandra Goldie is now wanting self funded retirees to pay for those on welfare. Jut read the submission she wrote to the inquiry into franking credits. She is such a fool as all what she proposes will do is have more people on welfare.
    GeorgeM
    20th Nov 2018
    10:02pm
    Agree with both comments above. Yes, retirees are in trouble with either of the major partiers, with Greens likely to push their agenda with either of them.

    All Retirees must join together and turf out all sitting MPS of the 3 Libs, Labor & Greens parties - to start change, and thereby also become a potent voting group.
    Peter H
    21st Nov 2018
    8:18am
    I am unlucky to have become unemployed at 60 so I am in the transition period. I am fortunate enough to have my own home at the expense of drawing on my superannuation. My lifestyle is modest. I supplement Newstart with part time self employment that I hope will increase. Having said that, there is no allowance in the Newstart system for this and I still need to apply for work. My thoughts are that consideration should be given to the contribution an individual has made to the taxation system during their life. The longer the contribution, the lighter the requirements to apply for jobs and perhaps even a slightly higher payment. As it stands now, if there haven't been enough jobs to apply for, Newstart is suspended. Most who have worked 40 plus years will apply for jobs that are within their ability and qualifications. There is no need to penalise us when jobs are scarce.
    Old Geezer
    21st Nov 2018
    11:08am
    There are plenty of jobs to apply for. Most people I know on Newstart just apply for jobs they know they wont get. eg Dentists ones are good ones to apply for. Takes them about 5 minutes a fortnight to apply for their quota of jobs. It does nothing other than fill employers inboxes up with token resumes from those who don't want jobs. If you do a tailor made resume you will most likely get the job.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    3:41pm
    That's a lie, OG, because they are kicked off Newstart if they don't apply for jobs they are qualified to do. You really are a disgusting, sick individual. If there were plenty of jobs, there would be statistics evidencing more job vacancies than job seekers. That is NOT the case. Statistics evidence very stiff competition for jobs - five to 12 or more applicants for each job vacancy. Many very good applicants with excellent resumes are struggling even to get an interview. You should be ashamed of your nastiness. Some folk here actually care about those who are struggling and try to avoid comments that are offensive and cruel.
    Lothario
    21st Nov 2018
    4:25pm
    Many apply for jobs they are qualified for but deliberately write crap resumes or turn up for interviews dressed shabbily and give stupid answers to questions so that they dont get offers
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    9:21pm
    Proved wrong so change the lie. Typical of you vile silver-spooners. How the hell would you know what the majority of unemployed do or why, Lothario. You haven't the decency to even consider that there might be factors you are not aware of driving their behaviour. You have no concept of what despair does to people. We live in a world full of vile bastards who abuse, bully, denigrate and torment, treat people like dirt, and then wonder why those same people - who are overcome by desperation and hopelessness - don't want to play by your cruel and heartless rules. You are disgusting!
    PlanB
    21st Nov 2018
    9:11am
    I don't know why anyone bothers with Old Geezer -- he is just a troll and enjoys the bits -- I ignore him totally -- but I guess he will come back in another form
    Lothario
    21st Nov 2018
    10:38am
    Lothario is the same just a troll that contributes little. OG is just an old bragard. Both brag about how they & their family can survive only part of what the OAP or newstart pays. No empathy from either.
    Old Geezer
    21st Nov 2018
    10:51am
    I also can't understand why people can't live very well on the OAP. Must whinge due to their own greed where enough is never enough for them.

    No I wont come back in another form either.
    Lothario
    21st Nov 2018
    10:58am
    Same as the top end of town & our politicians, not happy until they have all the wealth.
    If you believe people can live very well on the OAP then you would agree that all politicians & the rich should all be on the OAP instead of their exorbitante pensions & perks
    Old Geezer
    21st Nov 2018
    11:10am
    Both the wealthy and the pollies actually did something to earn their wealth and pensions. OAPs did not.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    3:36pm
    What a brainless, arrogant, disgusting LIE. Politicians did very little to earn anything - except stuff up the nation with their greed. The wealthy mostly inherited their wealth. Very few actually worked for it. Conversely, most OAP's slaved their guts out for 40+ years on wages far less than they were worth (otherwise their employers couldn't have made a profit), and paid taxes honestly, did charity and community work (which many are still doing in 'retirement'), and raised and educated children who are contributing to the nation.

    You have it back to front, OG. It's the wealthy and the pollies who DO NOTHING to earn their obscene wealth. Pensioners were the workers who were the backbone of the nation and without whom we would not have roads, electricity, power networks, health care, education, and a host of other benefits. You are a disgusting ingrate, and totally selfish, claiming otherwise.

    Most of the pensioners I know are very grateful for what they receive and don't ask for much at all. Not like the stinking greedy well-off who never have enough. Goodness, even an executive on $23.4 million a year isn't satisfied but has to steal and defraud.
    Lothario
    21st Nov 2018
    4:07pm
    People on OAP lie so that they bcan get more welfare. Truth is one can live comfortably on OAP and Newstart
    I was on the dole once for about 6 months and managed to save a couple of hundred dollars. And this was years ago , so in todays dollars it would be worth much more
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    21st Nov 2018
    9:18pm
    Your arrogance and ignorance is showing again, Lothario. Firstly, six months on the dole does not give any indication of what life on the dole is like for battlers. You most likely had savings, and prospects of a decent income in the future. When someone has NOTHING and poor prospects, it's a very different scene. Secondly, as it was years ago, it would not have been nearly as hard as today as the payment amount hasn't risen in real terms in decades. So every year it gets harder.

    Try being forced out of school at 14 with no family or support network whatever and not a cent - or even decent clothing - to your name. Take on casual labouring work - because it's all you can get - intermittently for years, and then suffer injury and be forced onto Newstart because Centrelink refuses to recognise a disability, claiming you - someone who has never done anything but physically strenuous work - could do a 'desk job'. With no savings, no credit rating, no savings or assets whatever, costs for medical care and disability aids and no future prospects, see how you fare then on a pathetically inadequate allowance. You arrogant silver-spooners just can't deal in FACT. You keep peddling your fairy tales and lies to justify disgusting abuse of the disadvantaged - because it suits your GREEDY purposes to ensure taxes aren't increased to provide properly for those who don't enjoy the privileges you take for granted.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    22nd Nov 2018
    7:39am
    This is the way OG and Lothario want things to be in the poor man's world, so SCUM can get richer and richer. Quite happy for this situation to be repeated again and again, just as long as the silver-spooners don't have to pay fair taxes.

    https://www.tweeddailynews.com.au/news/suspicious-baby-death-rocks-queensland/3581151/?utm_campaign=%5B%27Mailchimp+Morning+News%27%5D&utm_medium=%5B%27email%27%5D&utm_source=%5B%27Tweed+Daily+News%27%5D
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    23rd Nov 2018
    11:24am
    OG keeps claiming people don't want to work. I wonder why, given these facts:

    A blitz on 638 businesses in the farming industry has found more than half underpaid workers or falsified pay records or failed to provide pay slips.

    Fair Work inspectors recovered more than $1 million in unpaid wages for more than 2,500 workers after they investigated 638 businesses involved with the harvesting crops including grapes, strawberries, cherries, mushrooms, apples, citrus fruits and tomatoes.
    The inspectors investigated 444 growers and 194 labour hire contractors and took court action against eight employers for serious alleged breaches of the Fair Work Act. Four involved labour hire contractors.

    Six matters have been finalised resulting in over $500,000 in penalties. Two are still before the courts.

    Fair Work inspectors also issued 150 formal cautions to employers, 132 infringement notices and 13 compliance notices for breaches of workplace laws. They also entered into seven enforceable undertakings.


    OG continually blames the victims of social failure for their own problems, but this is the real truth of the matter. Workers are exploited for unfair gain by the better off.
    musicveg
    23rd Nov 2018
    1:49pm
    And so many people think unemployed should go fruit picking, and what about the disgruntled employee who put needles in the strawberries. They are just treated as slave labour so supermarkets can make more money because they do not pay enough to the farmers. This is just the tip of the iceberg OGR, there are most likely more industries that are not paying the proper wages. Since the work contract thing came in, people are too scared to negotiate too.
    Lothario
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:04pm
    Are you justifying what that lady did with needles in strawberries
    That’s just sick !!!

    And Rainey - don’t compare illegal immigrants to Australian workers
    These immigrants shouldn’t be here in he first place . That’s why they are exploited .
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    23rd Nov 2018
    2:18pm
    Lothario, it doesn't matter what nationality people are. Some Australians don't want the jobs because of the exploitation. Sad that many immigrants find themselves forced to tolerate this abuse. Nothing here suggests the underpaid workers were illegal, but nothing excuses the conduct of the employer - whatever nationality the workers are and whether they are legal or not.

    Don't try to justify the illegal and immoral conduct of greedy employers.
    musicveg
    23rd Nov 2018
    5:15pm
    Don't be ridiculous Lothario, of course I was not justifying it! All I said was "what about the disgruntled employee" meaning she may have been pushed over the edge by her employer. I am not sick, I am very healthy and I do not believe that there is any justification in harming people at all, quite the opposite.


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