27th Feb 2019
Calls for key changes to the Age Pension assets test

The family home could soon be considered under the Age Pension assets test, should recommendations by the Institute of Actuaries Australia be adopted.

In its pre-budget submission, the institute has called on the Government to consider imposing a dollar cap on the value of the family home that is exempt from the assets test. The cap could improve fairness in the system for homeowners and non-homeowners.

According to the submission, 95 per cent of homeowners would be on retirement incomes at least equivalent to the Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia modest level, compared to 28 per cent of renting couples.

Single female renters would have the lowest retirement incomes, with 23 per cent projected to reach ‘modest’ levels compared to 35 per cent of male renters.

“Actual rental payments are significantly higher than the level of Centrelink rental assistance, with the maximum Centrelink rent assistance being $136 per fortnight for a single renter living alone whereas the median rent is closer to $400 a fortnight,” states the submission.

The submission also damned Rent Assistance as inadequate, saying it had fallen as a percentage of average rental payments since 2001. The institute recommends Commonwealth rental assistance be increased by 40 per cent to provide adequate support for renting age pensioners and other welfare recipients.

Read the Institute of Actuaries full pre-Budget submission.

What would you say to a cap on the value of the family home? What dollar cap would you recommend? Or should the family home remain exempt from the means test?

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    COMMENTS

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    Lizzie
    27th Feb 2019
    10:44am
    Family home should be exempt. If someone bought a home many years ago, and the value has increased substantially, it should not disadvantage them if they want to continue living there.
    ozrog
    27th Feb 2019
    10:53am
    Agree. Any government that goes down this path we see and feel the might of retires. Franking credits would seem a drop in the ocean compared to the protests and the wrath of home owners.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    27th Feb 2019
    11:13am
    The family home should be asset tested. Stop people becoming asset rich with multi million dollar homes & claiming welfare.
    Under the current system the asset difference between a homeowner & a non homeowner is $207k. A good starting point. If your home is valued at $300k then $93k will be added to your assets.
    Won't be long when only a few will be paid the OAP. No one in Shitney or Melboring that owns any house will be on a pension. In fact most homeowners will not get a pension.
    Save this great nation billions every year, & will be able to afford those long overdue tax cuts for companies & multi nationals.
    Great idea
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:26am
    What utter nonsense, Lothario... typical of your troll posts...

    Suggesting a reasonable ceiling would be apt.. let's say two million and indexed.. that way only the Fat Bastards will be caught and wow, will we hear the whining...
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    11:39am
    The “Lothario” above is an imposter . Using my name and posting pro labor propaganda
    No idea why someone would resort to such dirty tactics unless he’s a child or a labor troll
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:47am
    Ah - two different ones..... different sign up dates...but what gave you away is that mention of 'Labor propaganda'.... very amusing play but not hard to spot...
    Arvo
    27th Feb 2019
    11:50am
    Something is odd ,for a home owner residing in a $1 million plus, property not wanting to downsize, not wanting to cash in but expecting a welfare hand-out! Odd indeed!!
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    12:06pm
    Downsize to where? A hut on the Wilcannia to Kyakatoo dingo fence?
    Paddington
    27th Feb 2019
    12:22pm
    Lothario, you are too funny, lol! That had to be tongue in cheek once you got to the last line.
    Lothario, it is you because a name cannot be repeated because up pops the statement that this name is already in use.
    I will take what you say in future with a grain of salt!
    Arvo
    27th Feb 2019
    12:24pm
    Regional town! Retirement home!
    thommo
    27th Feb 2019
    12:26pm
    Lothario is a mean and nasty stooge for the LNP>
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:03pm
    Oh dear, Lothario having another one of his identity day's confusion where he doesn't know if he is Lothario1, Lothario2 or FLV.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    2:37pm
    No point explaining anything to idiots . Wouldn’t be surprised if one of you is the impostor . Sad little troll
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    2:46pm
    The ONLY moron on this post is YOU Lothario!

    If a universal pension were reinstated rather than attempts to destitute retirees we would not need to have this conversation. The coast of the pension pales into insignificance when compared to the recent Turnbull tax cuts for the wealthy and I cannot see why older Australians have made their contributions to the country and now need to be under constant attack from a malicious, feral rich man's government.

    Oh yes....rich folk don't get a pension anyway and do not care. What they want is TAX CUTS and lots of them. We all know they want the same tax rate as the offshore tax shelters we all, apparently, have to compete with: ZERO PERCENT!
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    2:59pm
    Talking about yourself again Lothario
    Sceptic
    27th Feb 2019
    3:04pm
    One of the Lotharios shows as having joined 21.4.2018 and has no image. The other one shows as having joined on 4.11.2018 and includes the standard Lothario image. I respectfully suggest that that indicates that Paddington is incorrect about there cannot be two with the same name.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    4:11pm
    Thank you Sceptic. Some a/hole changed his/her name to mine and posting contrarion views to mine
    I suggest they are probably labor trolls or a child
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    4:19pm
    Arvo, if someone has to move from their highly priced home to a regional town there are a lot of step to go through first. Looking for a new house is not done in five minutes so there is the expense of travelling to that regional town half a dozen or more times. Often there are things to do to bring the house up to standard, more expense. Solicitor’s fees, removalist’s fees, estate agent’s fees, transfer of utilities fees, stamp duty, redirecting your mail fees, moving into a smaller house probably means furniture is too big so new items have to be purchased. If you have pets they’ll probably be in kennels for the move.
    However moving will take the person from an area where s/he will have some support from family and/or friends which means that the same kind of support will need to come from government agencies so less money paid out by government for pension but more to be paid out for home aid. No win for government and a huge loss for pensioner.
    Think before you make anymore glib comments.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    6:50pm
    Paddington, this website DOES allow registration of the same user name. It's a bad technical flaw. Someone claimed my name some months ago and posted offensive rubbish pretending to be me. When I changed my name, he changed his to the name I had changed to. At that point, YLC management finally believed my complaint of mischief-making and took action.

    Lothario, you should report this creep. This behaviour is appalling. It should not be tolerated.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    6:50pm
    Paddington, this website DOES allow registration of the same user name. It's a bad technical flaw. Someone claimed my name some months ago and posted offensive rubbish pretending to be me. When I changed my name, he changed his to the name I had changed to. At that point, YLC management finally believed my complaint of mischief-making and took action.

    Lothario, you should report this creep. This behaviour is appalling. It should not be tolerated.
    thommo
    27th Feb 2019
    8:12pm
    Mick, I agree with you 100%.
    Arvo
    27th Feb 2019
    11:38pm
    Triss- ah...so that explains why they deserve a welfare hand out. Thanks for justifying the apathy and avolition of bludgers!!!
    ardnher
    28th Feb 2019
    7:17pm
    Find out "which" party is going to do this before you vote is my suggestion!!
    Rae
    1st Mar 2019
    6:01am
    Arvo Triss made points that don't count but...

    Once depreciation and inflation and costs of purchasing and interest are subtracted from property prices it leaves a fairly small capital gain for any who have held the one home over decades.

    There is no getting around the mathematics.

    Regardless of the belief that people have grown "wealthy" by owning a house it's not absolutely true.

    What is a problem is the tendency to upgrade house after house that produces no income. It has been a waste of resources for many. If they are dependent on the OAP sitting in an expensive home in an expensive area then the rising costs of holding the home will be the problem for many and eventually a sale must occur.

    This policy has been encouraged by both political parties to suit the need for stamp duty and support for banks, legal and real estate industries. Avoiding tax is not necessarily the smartest investment decision.

    I can't see the home being added to the asset test regardless of Grattan or the actuaries.

    They should know better than to even bring the issue up.
    Chris B T
    27th Feb 2019
    11:03am
    No asset test in any form, everyone receives full pension. Rental assistance given to all, renters and home owners no segregation all equal.
    Every One Fills Out Tax Return Showing All Income. That includes Offshore Payments and Pension Funds/Annuities, Pay Tax accordingly.
    Politicians To have access to Their Pension not before 60 at the earliest and RETIRED FROM WORK,DIRECTORSHIPS ETC.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:28am
    Money offshored and onshored for trading purposes deemed is charged 30% transfer tax - take it up with the judge...
    Chris B T
    27th Feb 2019
    11:34am
    Who's running a business.
    Earnings and payments made to an individual.
    No Cayman Island BS.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    11:37am
    Ignore Thebore
    I have money invested in super overseas like many others
    So Thebore will have me pay 30% to transfer money into my investment and 30 % when I withdraw it to live in retirement
    Idiot
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:50am
    .. you'll love it when it is taxed when storming the beaches, Lothario... can't wait to see the look on your face.. super held outside Australia doesn't fall under the same rules.. that'll be the rule....

    **rubs hands together in glee**

    You, sir, are a mine of information for legislators and tax people..... of course you got it backwards - YOU would be paying 30% to move it Offshore and then 30% to move it Onshore again... but of course you would try to cloud the waters of what I suggested.. no other option...

    Not many 'ignore' my learned comments, Loathie - you, on the other hand ..... publicly confessing to every tax cheat under the sun is hardly likely to endear you to anyone...
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    12:09pm
    Bro Shorten and the Party will command that the ATO go over 'family companies', 'trusts' and such with a fine toothed comb.... they've said so.....

    No wonder you're so desperately obfuscating and got more moves than Mohamed Ali on steroids...
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:16pm
    And everyone pays back any pension received when they die.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    12:56pm
    My funds held outside Australia are tax exempt . It complies with ATO definition for tax exempt investments that are conseodrerd equivalent .
    Don’t talk about stuff you don’t understand Thebore
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:10pm
    Good luck with that idea OG, and how do you think that idea would go down in the electorate??, people who only have the pension to live on and very little assets would have nothing left to pay back. Who would pay it back?, I cannot see any relies embracing this idea, what a ridiculous thought bubble.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    2:00pm
    Misty most people would like the idea as if you can afford to pay it back then why not.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    2:00pm
    Misty most people would like the idea as if you can afford to pay it back then why not.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:22pm
    Why, OG? It's a bought and paid for right.... once you get it, it's yours, not the state's, just like all your other bought and paid for property.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:23pm
    Rules were made to be changed, Lothario - for exactly the reason of catching cheats like you.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    2:54pm
    OG if you can afford to pay it back you shouldn't be receiving it in the first place.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    3:09pm
    If you own a house then you can afford to pay it back.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    3:10pm
    Trebor not it's welfare and can be taken from you at any time.
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    4:33pm
    And, OG, everyone who has had free medical bills can also pay them back on their death
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:00pm
    NO, OG. We paid enough tax. After slogging a lifetime to own a home, often with a strong desire to leave something for children, nobody should have it taken from them on death. That's disgusting. People will stop investing in homes and just claim rent assistance if the government keeps on punishing every act that is responsible and good for the economy.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:00pm
    NO, OG. We paid enough tax. After slogging a lifetime to own a home, often with a strong desire to leave something for children, nobody should have it taken from them on death. That's disgusting. People will stop investing in homes and just claim rent assistance if the government keeps on punishing every act that is responsible and good for the economy.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    7:55pm
    Not going to bother with your last abuse of reality, OG - you are still wrong.
    GeorgeM
    27th Feb 2019
    11:53pm
    YLC seems to deliberately bring out this moronic idea every now and then - probably just to invite the usual mindless responses by interest groups (tribes, as they call it) to attack each other - instead of trying to unite the Retirees group. Bit sad, they need to try harder to work for us, ALL of us, being a website for older people.

    Chris B T, you are right, it should be Universal Age Pension - based only on Age (65 yrs) and Residency (say 15 years) with NO other tests. Politicians, past & present should have all their Special Pensions scrapped, and also become eligible under the same rules as anyone else (from Age 65, not 60).

    No way should the family home, which people worked and saved for through their lifetime, be included in any Assets Test. The Institute of Actuaries are a bunch of dodos with tunnel vision - they should have instead recommended the Universal Age Pension idea as above, and scrapping of Politician Special Pensions - clearly no guts, and no ability to think outside the box.
    Blinky
    28th Feb 2019
    1:39am
    Homes increase in value over the years. The pension is money provided to people who do not have any other income by the time they retire. Their primary home should NEVER be counted in the asset test. They worked hard, they paid taxes, n they saved to buy a house x their retirement. If u dont have a house by the time u retired, there's something wring w you, dont blame those who have one. Also, u will get rental assistance, home owners dont.
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    5:00pm
    But Blinky, why doesn't the same hold true for people who saved for retirement. Some downsized their homes to be self-supporting. They also worked hard and paid taxes, yet it seems most here think they are a fair target for abuse and deprivation.
    Miranda
    27th Feb 2019
    11:13am
    This is a nightmare scenario for most pensioners who own their own homes. We have enough to worry about with increased food costs, paying bills and health insurance, etc.
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    12:57pm
    It won’t happen any time soon. Political suicide for any party who introduced it. Not just old people but their children and grandchildren would also be up in arms
    MITZY
    27th Feb 2019
    3:23pm
    Miranda: This is a pre-budget idea/submission from the Institute of Actuaries to the government to consider. With an election around the corner nothing will happen it would be political suicide for the Coalition. These so-called advisers to government make submissions without giving the different type of age pensioners a proper thought or even contacting any of them. They are probably in the category of wealthy people on incomes much larger than we ever earned and with tidy sums in superannuation so its easy for them to suggest the home be included.
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    4:31pm
    Remember, Miranda, there are a whole heap of people who are coming to retirement age who have struggled to pay off their house. If they think that government is going to take it off them when they can no longer work that government is for the compost bin.
    Besides which, if people have to sell their house to live because they are refused a pension they will then have to rent so government will be forking out for rent assistance so they won't be saving much.
    Mind you, that might be the one thing that makes the apathetic stand on their hind legs and hiss.

    27th Feb 2019
    11:13am
    Yes Shorten and Bowen place a cap on the family home value or include the whole thing in the assets test
    Its the next logical step in his policy progression
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:29am
    Funny - it was the Young Liberals who were the chosen mule to carry that message to the public - and it received the utter contempt it deserved...
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:17pm
    Better policy is to have people pay back any pension received from their estate.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:12pm
    And what happens if they don't have any estate OG?, many OAP rent and have no assets.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:21pm
    That's why it is a good idea and then only those who need the pension actually get it.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:21pm
    That's why it is a good idea and then only those who need the pension actually get it.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:24pm
    .. and repay all super and other tax benefits received along the way - that could have some traction... imagine how much the Fat Bastards would be up for, with their tax concessions ...
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    3:19pm
    Ha ha Trebor I'm off the hook again as I never got any super or tax benefits.
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    6:32pm
    But you've had plenty of freebies, OG, so when you breathe your last the pen pushers can trawl back through your life and charge you for all the medical treatments, etc you've had.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    7:58pm
    If you have your oft discussed income bearing stuff, OG - you are certainly in the mix somewhere... sometime - and thus liable...

    Triss - maybe the state could just resume the lot, kind of a Robodebt (Robberdebt) - take it all and let anyone who wants a piece has to find the paperwork and argue with a blank wall...
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    9:10pm
    Lothario, why do some of your posts have a photo and some do not?
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    9:11pm
    No super and no tax benifits OG?, and pigs might fly or someone is telling porkies on here.
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:31am
    Two computers - two addresses - two sign-ups.... common amongst the student types who have access to their computers and others at facilities....
    VJ
    27th Feb 2019
    11:20am
    Leave our homes alone. why are those who can least afford it always being punished? Artificial activities push the prices of homes out of the reach of many. what is the formulae going to be? Market value, which is often inflated - where is the incentive to keep your home looking good if that is going to penalise the home owner?
    Travellersjoy
    27th Feb 2019
    11:23am
    For thousands of older women, their 'family home' has been their only source of security, and where they put their retirement savings when they weren't eligible for superannuation.

    How glibly these economists talk about superannuation and pensions as if the lived history of millions of us never happened.

    Or do they just not care about the women shut out of superannuation, shut out of education and professions, shut out of well paid jobs reserved for men? Are they so privileged and middle class, they cannot imagine what life is and has been like for for so many older Australians.

    If this should go ahead because they can show long term advantage for the whole community, not just a cash grab from defenceless pensioners, then the homes of full pensioners who survived the 'ancien regime' with at least a home to show for it, should be grandfathered.

    If I had any franked shares, they are welcome to them, but my home? Forget it. Years of going without to get and keep a roof over my head do not deserve this. Paying council rates is a constant challenge on a mingey pension. Losing the pension because I have an old house where gentrification has made it valuable to developers would be a travesty.
    sunnyOz
    27th Feb 2019
    11:45am
    Travellersajoy - we appear to be in the same boat. I absolutely, totally, completely and utterly agree with you! I am sick and tired of being penalised because I worked hard, stayed off government handouts, and supported myself. Now that I am on my RIGHTFULLY ENTITLED Aged Pension, now they want to penalise me!
    I'm with you - HANDS OFF MY HOME! Spend your time targeting big business's who don't pay their rightful taxes (and send their money off shore). And politicians with their fingers continually in the tax payers trough. I can guarantee there are plenty of other Bronwyn Bishops and Mathias Cormann - they just haven't been caught out yet. They are ONLY sorry when they get caught out.
    Arvo
    27th Feb 2019
    12:04pm
    If one is living in a residential home worth $1 million THEY ARE WEALTHY, they can sell, cash in, downsize. So why is that person expecting a welfare handout?
    What if the government said this,
    "OK-you want to remain in your home worth $1 million and claim pension, we will let you and we will pay you a pension, however, we will place a caveat over your home so when you pass away we will get back our tax payer's welfare money paid to you plus interest' out of your deceased estate.
    Is this fair?
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    12:41pm
    Arvo, $1 million home in Sydney or Melbourne is nothing flash. People who worked and saved to pay off a mortgage should never be forced to sell and move to unfamiliar surroundings. That would be elder abuse
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    2:52pm
    Spot on Sundays. The magic figures this government has come up with is intended to CATCH OUT anybody who had worked, saved and planned for their SELF FUNDED retirement. That may not be fair but it is the quintessential 'envy' at work. Better we spend all, go on the pension and then watch the pension fall for all as the weight of more and more pensioners crushes it. Then posters like Arvo will have their next brain snap.
    What is missed in all of this is that MOST self funded retirees got to where they are by doind some pretty hard yards which most others refused to consider because they wanted life style. Now the same lot want to discriminate against those who saved for a better life in retirement rather than their working lives. Painful!
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    4:14pm
    Ah but Mick - its your labor party and its socialist ideals at work. Bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Except the labor ruling class of course
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    6:35pm
    Arvo, don't you think that the ex politicians should also downsize before they get a taxpayer funded pension? Or aren't you brave enough to suggest that?
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:02pm
    Like many around these days, Lothario, you deliberately confuse leftie and rightie for some kind of attempt at total dominance of society by either in isolation - the reality is that there are a set of people outside the normal people who strive for that, and they cross all party and political boundaries...

    The feminist striving for hegemony, using the thin excuse that 'the patriarchy' abuses and controls everyone, is but one... patriarchy is a poor choice of word - deliberately, of course - since 50% of 'the patriarchy' beneficiaries are women already.... so it should properly be patrimatriarchy or some Brave New Word......
    Arvo
    27th Feb 2019
    11:45pm
    Triss- don't taunt people about being not being brave, especially the ones you don't know anything about.
    Arvo
    27th Feb 2019
    11:56pm
    Sundays- No problem. No one should be forced out of their own home and no one should be expecting the government to pay them a welfare pension where pensioners have wealthy assets they can dispose off and live off them. Yeah, that's fair!
    Sundays
    28th Feb 2019
    8:57am
    Actually, no Arvo. The old age pension is a right which has been paid for by taxpayers past, present and future. Do your own research and it was promised to the current group of pensioners by Government to assist them in their old age before super was even thought of. It is Not Welfare. If you want more, you save more. No one, who saves and pays off a mortgage should be expected to sell their home to fund their retirement. That would stop any incentive to save and destroy the economy.
    Sundays
    28th Feb 2019
    9:05am
    And Arvo, if you actually own your own home, you would understand the sacrifices people have made. Firstly, you couldn’t even get a loan without saving at least 20% deposit, then the lending rules were much tighter than today, and in the 1980s interest rates rose to 17%. You don’t reach retirement to be then told that you have to sell up and use it for retirement. Why would anyone bother, just spend up.
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:56pm
    Oh, so the lucky guy who could afford a cottage in a working class suburb in a city and sit and watch the value soar should get a pension, but the battler who struggled to pay off a shack in the country or downsized to a unit and invested to try to be self-funded should be robbed. Yep, that's about what I'd expect from you, Sundays. Gross unfairness and socialist BS.

    I battled to buy a home AND I battled to save. Why should owners of expensive homes be favoured over owners of modest homes who chose to invest more responsibly and more beneficially for the nation?
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:56pm
    Oh, so the lucky guy who could afford a cottage in a working class suburb in a city and sit and watch the value soar should get a pension, but the battler who struggled to pay off a shack in the country or downsized to a unit and invested to try to be self-funded should be robbed. Yep, that's about what I'd expect from you, Sundays. Gross unfairness and socialist BS.

    I battled to buy a home AND I battled to save. Why should owners of expensive homes be favoured over owners of modest homes who chose to invest more responsibly and more beneficially for the nation?
    Sundays
    28th Feb 2019
    7:36pm
    Actually, you are the Socialist because you want us all on the same level playing field. Not possible and failed in every communist country. Instead of whining about your Franking credits, and comparing yourself to others get busy at looking for alternative investments. The clock is ticking!
    Sundays
    28th Feb 2019
    9:21pm
    You bought shares as an investment and someone else bought a house as a home. The house has increased in value compared to the shares. Now, you are crying foul? You didn’t do it to benefit the nation, that’s nonsense.
    Anonymous
    28th Feb 2019
    9:27pm
    yes she did you numbnut. She did it so she can be financially independent and not rely on the pension. Same thing

    Why does an OAP with a $5M dollar house get welfare when someone on a $200K HOUSE WITH $500K ASSETS INVESTED TO FUND THEIR RETIREMENT GET NOTHING ???
    Anonymous
    28th Feb 2019
    9:27pm
    yes she did you numbnut. She did it so she can be financially independent and not rely on the pension. Same thing

    Why does an OAP with a $5M dollar house get welfare when someone on a $200K HOUSE WITH $500K ASSETS INVESTED TO FUND THEIR RETIREMENT GET NOTHING ???
    Misty
    28th Feb 2019
    10:33pm
    Posting once is enough Lothario, you don't have to do it twice, another thing you and OGR do, post twice, anyway where didf you get those figures from Lothario, how do you know how much OGR'S house and assets are?.
    Sundays
    1st Mar 2019
    8:21am
    Actually, Lothario $500k for both a single and couple would still qualify for a part pension. Up to $844k for a home owning couple and you qualify. Once you sort out your multiple personalities, you might want to work on your facts.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:24pm
    And you might want to learn to read as well as acquiring some manners, Sundays. He referred to AN OAP and SOMEONE - not a couple.

    And Misty, perhaps you could stop being rude and insulting and start learning a little about technology. I click once and two posts appear. I delete the duplicate when I can get back to it fast enough, but neither I nor Lothario are responsible for the malfunctioning of YLC website. And Lothario DID NOT say anything about those figures relating to me. He was generalising. Really disgraceful how you two continue to attack and insult anyone you don't agree with, but are the first to cry if you feel offended at a response.
    Misty
    1st Mar 2019
    8:04pm
    I am not being insulting OGR , justtrying to point out what many others have posted on YLC'S Topics where people were having this problem, you just press post once after your comment and straight away click on the F5 key and only one post will show up. It is a shame you are imagining that I am attacking you OGR as you are the one who continually attacks and insults me, I have never called anyone scum in my life, not like you have.
    CoogeeGuy
    27th Feb 2019
    11:23am
    How rediculous and insulting to we hard working Australians who placed every cent, during their working lives, into paying off our family homes, so that we would be secure in our retirement. The family home should NEVER be considered to be included in the asset test. I for one worked very hard, and did without holidays, dining out, clothing, a motor vehicle, and any form of entertainment during my working life, so that I could pay of my family home by the time I retired. In the meantime, I saw those who were not working, and/or made poor life choices, and relied on welfare, wearing nice clothes, driving a motor vehicle and residing in a nice affordable housing accomodation at a discounted price. To include the family home in the asset test would be seen as a punishment to those of us who worked hard, and made hard choices, to secure our family home.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:37am
    This reasoning should be extended to every non-income bearing asset purchased out of after-tax income - by what standard should a person be forced to pay twice for their taxation?

    If I own a 50' yacht (I did but the idiot at the marina rammed it and sank it without saying anything), all bought and paid for out of after tax earnings - that is mine - it does not belong to any 'government' to do with as it chooses. Same with a Windbag or anything else that actually costs to run, and does not recoup income.

    You've paid tax once - purchased out of your net income - it is YOURS - not Uncle Guv's - and has no bearing on your pension rights.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    2:55pm
    You are 100% on the money CoogeeGuy. Sadly the have nots often feel they are owed rather than understanding they made different life choices and spent their money in their working lifetime. Others, like us, forwent that and now want a leisurely retirement. Sadly the have nots want it all.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:06pm
    Oh, I dunno, Mick - some had to suffer through divorce and asset stripping, illness, injury, and a host of piss poor government policy thrusts, all of which effectively remove personal sovereignty from the individual and repose sovereignty in either government or a pack of mongrels titled 'bosses'... who through their personal unions, are in league with government.

    All these dreadful social ills are the direct result of governments' equalising' everyone by making Brave New Rules for everything - as long as it suited some and not all. Every such policy starting from the 1970's has been fatally flawed and ultimately fatal to this nation and its people.

    Just look at the social and economic mess around you.... and remember not to point fingers too much...... wear their shoes for a while and see...

    BOTR.
    Oldman Roo
    27th Feb 2019
    10:31pm
    After the Abbott debacle on moving the goal posts on on Pensioners , I could not envisage a Government creating havoc for the aged again . Forcing people out of their homes at an age where the emotional and physical involvement could easily mean death to some of them , can only be seen as the ultimate in cruelty . It would also punish the person who made sacrifices in life to pay for owning his home . Quite the contrary the way it should be seen but Labor may see it as another way to pay for future Boat people . Just get the Centrelink statistics on the last lot Labor blessed us with and you will see why our Pensions and homes are not safe .
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:59pm
    Labor IS creating havoc for the aged again, Oldman Roo - substantially the SAME aged who were kicked in the guts by the LNP a while back. Seems the aged are an easy target. Don't be too sure of anything. The one advantage both parties know they have is that envy and spite ensure such division that there can never be united opposition to anything they do.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:25am
    As long as the subject keeps getting an airing, it is doubtful that any government would be stupid enough to try it...

    Il faut fair un demonstration... show 'em your bayonets flashing in the sun and they know to avoid you.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    2:56pm
    WRONG TREBOR.

    The current government started 'Workchoices'. It WILL bring the family home into the assets test the same as it WILL build new coal fired power stations. This lot have no soul and its not if but rather when. Bank on that.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:58pm
    Labor isn't backing off a nasty and unfair proposal that is getting tons of adverse publicity, so don't count on any government being smart. STUPID and power mad seems to be the order of the day.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:09pm
    I'm saying we are at least making our thoughts and feeling known before they try it - so they have no excuses after.

    Just yesterday (I Saw Someone New) a business group said that the current workplace rules were the cause of low wages growth and not piss poor management at all levels, along with the culture of greed as shown so clearly by several here - in other words - if they were permitted open slather and no rules, everyone would profit mightily - I had to laugh.....
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    28th Feb 2019
    1:24am
    Give it a rest OGR I think everyone including me is just fed up with your me me me every post
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    5:04pm
    Is it Misty, Paddington or Sundays impersonating Lothario, I wonder?
    Sundays
    28th Feb 2019
    7:40pm
    Not me but he is clever!
    Anonymous
    28th Feb 2019
    7:42pm
    How can YLC allow this a/hole to impersonate me and throw insults at other posters
    YLC please remove this idiot
    Misty
    28th Feb 2019
    8:42pm
    I thought it was you, OGR, as your posts are very similair.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:31pm
    My comments are nothing at all like those of the fake Lothario, Misty. I post reasoned FACT, not propaganda and bigoted rubbish. Maybe you could try to do the same instead of allying with Sundays to make continual personal attacks?
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:31pm
    My comments are nothing at all like those of the fake Lothario, Misty. I post reasoned FACT, not propaganda and bigoted rubbish. Maybe you could try to do the same instead of allying with Sundays to make continual personal attacks?
    Misty
    1st Mar 2019
    8:08pm
    Your imagination working overtime again OGR, you are the one making personal attacks on me and pensioners. Do you think people won't take offense when you continually abuse and insult them?, of course they won't put up with it OGR.
    sunnyOz
    27th Feb 2019
    11:32am
    ABSOLUTELY NO!! I am single, have worked and fought bloody hard to pay off my own home, forgoing holidays, going out, even settling down with a partner. Now on OAP. But my little house is MINE. Yet my blood sucking sister who has never worked a day in her life, 2 kids to different fathers, still renting a 3 BR govt house, on the DSP due to lung problems (caused by self inflicted chronic smoking) - goes on a cruise each year, doesn't have to worry about house maintenance, plus my parents always supported her (even gave her a new car) - because she was 'struggling'. 'Struggling' - my foot! She just knew how to play the system!
    But it appears SHE was the smart one. So if my house is included in the assets test - and I need some money. What do I do - sell a bedroom? Sell off the garage? I bought my house when it was so run down, it was all I could afford, and no one else wanted it! I have worked my backside off to do it up, make it livable, and hopefully stay in till I kick the bucket. So now I am to be punished because I have worked hard, put my blood, sweat and tears (many!) in to it, making it a HOME?

    NO! And how would this be worked out? A home worth $500,000 in Sydney would be a dump. In many country towns, it would be a palace. And I suppose that would mean a whole new Govt Dept to manage it? Who and how would home values be assessed? I could not even begin to see how this could be done fairly and equitably.
    My elderly aunt first bought her home in the lat 1960's, when it was the only one in an area, and people laughed at her saying she was mad. No other houses for miles. Now it would be the oldest house in the area - still in its original state. But it is her HOME (her husband has passed on). She has no children. She wants to stay in the home till she dies. Yes her house is now worth considerably more, but so what? Why should she be penalised? She struggles enough now on the OAP - it is totally wrong that her home should be included in the assets test.
    CoogeeGuy
    27th Feb 2019
    11:46am
    I am totally with you on this one sunnyOz. I am sure the Government would not even dare contemplate including our family homes in any asset test. Except for being placed into an Aged Care Centre of course. But that is a whole new story.
    KSS
    27th Feb 2019
    12:42pm
    Even with the downturn in house prices you will not find even a 'dump' in Sydney for $500,000 sunnyOz! Those days are long gone.
    musicveg
    27th Feb 2019
    3:48pm
    I agree sunnyOz, it is stories like yours is the reason that the family home should not be included in the asset test, are they going to do that to politicians too?
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:33am
    Instead tax all companies 30% of gross estimated p.a., let them sort it out with the tax man... that'll solve the money problems, and just like RobberDebt, many will not bother to argue and it will take years to get their case through... in the meantime the Guv has free use of their lovely... plenty of large going around out there that could be captured for consolidated revenue and pay the debts now due, such as pensions and involuntary unemployment ....

    Fix it - easy - give everyone a job..... a real job... and only tax pensioners on income above pension. Buoyant economy - or as Keating liked to utter it darkly - 'an over-heated economy' (meaning the salt of the earth = sum of the earth in politician eyes - are getting too much) ...
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:00pm
    Cancelling the Turnbull tax cuts for the wealthy would fix pensions just fine.
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    6:39pm
    Unfortunately, Mick, this government cuts tax for the wealthy and cuts pensions to pay for them.
    pedro the swift
    27th Feb 2019
    11:34am
    Well said, lother, all those pensioners in multimillion dollar homes in Melb. and Syd. should be forced to sell their homes to the only people who can afford them, foreign investors. They can then go and live in a hovel the other side of the black stump where their well-fare can be ignored.
    Then our inner cities will all belong to foreign interests as aussies can no longer afford to buy those mansions( except for those few who play the games of mates of course)

    Good to see that you are back to your real self again instead of pretending to have a sensible idea.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    11:41am
    That post using my name is by an impostor . He’s been doing this for the past week
    What a sad little man that f/ wit is
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:42am
    They could just sign their house over to the developers, who will knock it down and then flood the neighbourhood with furruners ...
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:17pm
    Nonsense Lothario, didn't you read TREBOR'S POST ABOVE?, you can only join under one name, once that is taken no one else can use it, you really do have a problem, deciding if you are Lothario 1 or Lothario 2 don't you.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    2:40pm
    you are idiot 1 and idiot 2 Misty
    Someone is using my name and the moderators are doing nothing about it
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:02pm
    Your foul mouth and your idiotic troll comments say it all. You are not a victim!
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    8:03pm
    You are wrong Misty. Sorry. I've been the target of an imposter and fought with YLC management to get them to take action. Eventually they admitted it was possible for another member to change their avatar to pretend to be me.
    The imposter used my name and when I changed my name, the imposter changed his to my new name. Eventually, after repeated complaints, YLC did take action. Lothario should report this disgusting abuse. It's disgraceful.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:10pm
    Any man who called me an idiot would have to be an idiot.. Loathsome did that... he's an idiot...
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:35am
    Paddington said you could only sign up once... but if you have two computers...... you can sign up twice and use the same name if you wish, and then play games over it....

    Loathsome has, unfortunately, run out of tolerance here.... so I suspect it's him on two devices and trying to be smart...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    28th Feb 2019
    1:27am
    There is only 1 lothario & I have seen the light. the LNP are evil, may the force of Labor be with you young Luke
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    5:06pm
    Trebor, someone impersonated me and when I changed my name, they changed theirs to continue their mischief. Eventually YLC admitted it offers no protection against someone taking the same user name. I believe Lothario. It's very obvious which comments don't come from him.
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    5:06pm
    Trebor, someone impersonated me and when I changed my name, they changed theirs to continue their mischief. Eventually YLC admitted it offers no protection against someone taking the same user name. I believe Lothario. It's very obvious which comments don't come from him.
    Old Man
    27th Feb 2019
    11:40am
    Here we go again. Year after year this subject is brought up by one group or another and each year all sides of politics ignore the statements. Yes, the theory holds up until the actual cases are looked at more closely. Our home will have little to no effect on the pension thresholds but if we happened to be supplanted a few suburbs away then there may be a problem.

    Western Sydney is a prime example of what can happen accidentally. It was originally an area where land was cheap and modest homes were built. Now it isn't unusual to see some of these 3BR, fibro homes selling in excess of $1M so if they were included in the assets test some very deserving people would lose their pension entitlements.

    It seems that the only people talking about this are not the politicians who will be making the decisions to enact a law to make it happen. I have yet to hear any member of the two major parties even hint at such a change.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    12:00pm
    No - they use proxies and cut-outs.. plausible deniability.... how many times do the laughable 'young liberals' or the 'business council' (that pays next to no tax) or some 'learned body of experts' come out with a 'policy idea' that supports one or the other of the major parties?

    Run the idea up the flag pole, see how many holes are shot in it, then lower it to count.... then quietly put that flag away, get a new one, and run it up again two months later in the fervent hope that everyone has forgotten.. throw in a few paid-for activist inventions, such as 'change Australia Day', or 'poor, poor women', or 'hate speech to call out an ethnic for crime or for condoning rape of children', or 'poor ALPHABETS copping it in pre-school' ... and confusion reigns... so much merde in the air that it is impossible to find the fan....
    Old Man
    27th Feb 2019
    12:14pm
    Yes, Bob, and this 'learned body of experts' is a group that may be suffering from Relevance Deprivation Syndrome. When I was just staring out, an Actuary was a key part of an insurance company but since the advent of computers, it's one of those positions that has fallen by the wayside.

    Your second paragraph has heightened my cynicism. All of those ideas seem to get thrown up at inopportune time that, strangely, coincides with a major party having a crisis. A crisis that involves internal bickering, a misuse of entitlements, an unacceptable policy announcement or someone caught with their pants down. Do political parties start this crap to change the focus? I'm leaning towards a positive response.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:26pm
    I think they do, OM... try to take the heat off their own incompetence and inability to actually do anything substantial.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:45am
    The only 'key changes' needed to the OAP are to make it universal and then tax all strands of income and benefit in lieu, fringd benefits and free rides on the "past" company owned's chopper or private jet, supply of a chaffeur and car for life, etc, at the going rate for income tax.

    That'll slow the Fat Bastards down a bit... including the idiot politicians who constantly play scare games with this kind of nonsense.

    The price of liberty is eternal vigilante groups, such as aggrieved pensioners...
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:03pm
    What.........tax the rich? Never.
    Old Man
    27th Feb 2019
    4:37pm
    Depends on the definition of "rich", MICK. If you define it as the highest income earners then you should know that the top 10% of the working population pays 50% of the tax income.

    Link: https://theconversation.com/factcheck-is-50-of-all-income-tax-in-australia-paid-by-10-of-the-working-population-45229

    As regards company taxes especially multinationals, they pay according to the tax laws which have remained virtually unchanged for decades.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:17pm
    Been done to death, OM - they pay proportionally buggar-all compared to Jo and Joe Toiler who have no tax dodges and don't get their running costs paid for them ...

    As I said - we have one here who boasts of a 'family company' paying no tax, getting a salary from it and he pays no tax, he draws some shares at times but pays no tax..... and all the while his running costs on behalf of the 'company' are paid for by the taxpayer (not him - he doesn't pay tax).

    Now he adds that he has overseas super funds - again pays zero tax but wants all benefits.

    I doubt he's 'mega-rich' but he's a thief and a loser just like them and a perfect example of why Labor wants to scrutinise trusts and family companies etc.

    Perhaps a company needs to be re-defined - no more single owner companies with one extra shareholder holding one share.

    What those who enjoy these things rail to see is that such rules are long overdue for change - and they've had their free ride out of the taxpayer, so have nothing to whine about when it's all gone.

    Personally I'd Robodebt 'em and make 'em produce their paperwork for the last twenty years... and let them argue with a brick wall...
    Cowboy Jim
    27th Feb 2019
    11:46am
    Where I live that would not make much of a difference, the place is not worth much; I might cease to be a home owner, spend the proceeds of the flat on world cruises and then get rent assistance. If that is the plan of the future govt good luck. Certainly different for people with children and grandchildren.
    2 singles live in a 2-bedroom flat, full pension and rent assistance, about $500 a week each, no home maintenance, no insurance. Some owners are clearly mugs
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:52am
    Mortgage assistance for pensioners with a mortgage?
    Rae
    1st Mar 2019
    6:18am
    Try $700 to $750 with the rent assistance and then throw in the concessions and things like not having to pay the $42 gap at the doctors and paying $6 a script instead of $29. No rego, discounts for a lot of costs etc.
    Wake Up
    27th Feb 2019
    11:50am
    The family home shouldn't be included in the assets test. When I retired I couldn't get a sniff of the OAP so I upgraded my home to a 1.2 million property so as to bring me just under the assets limit & now get a bit of OAP PLUS all the side benefits too & best of all don't have to apply every year to get a Low Income Health Card
    Wake Up
    27th Feb 2019
    11:50am
    The family home shouldn't be included in the assets test. When I retired I couldn't get a sniff of the OAP so I upgraded my home to a 1.2 million property so as to bring me just under the assets limit & now get a bit of OAP PLUS all the side benefits too & best of all don't have to apply every year to get a Low Income Health Card
    Wake Up
    27th Feb 2019
    12:01pm
    Oh & if Shorten gets in I get my franking credits back too WIN WIN
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    12:49pm
    And what if you have. You’ve protected your inheritance and accessed a part pension which is your right. Now, if it was a mythical $4m home people talk about it might be seen as a rort
    almost a grey hair
    27th Feb 2019
    12:58pm
    I'm in the unfortunate position of already owning a home worth $1.2m so I am having to spent the excess on world travelled new cars LOL
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    4:55pm
    Yes, grey hair I had a friend who said she would do this. Then the reality of living on $20k set in. Aim for a part pension at least, if you prefer not to be self funded when you can
    Cowboy Jim
    27th Feb 2019
    5:13pm
    That is exactly what the Govt does not like - if I had more cash I would do the same but
    I am better off spending the dough the way I see fit.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    8:08pm
    Yes, WakeUp, and when two thirds of the aged population is doing this, the IDIOTS who conceived this ridiculous notion that punishing work and saving was a good idea be scratching their heads and crying in their beer and trying to figure out more ways to steal from anyone who has a dollar. And the nation will continue to go to hell in a basket.

    Mythical $4 mil, Sundays? You live in a bubble. You need to get out more and learn how things are in the real world.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    8:09pm
    Yes, WakeUp, and when two thirds of the aged population is doing this, the IDIOTS who conceived this ridiculous notion that punishing work and saving was a good idea be scratching their heads and crying in their beer and trying to figure out more ways to steal from anyone who has a dollar. And the nation will continue to go to hell in a basket.

    Mythical $4 mil, Sundays? You live in a bubble. You need to get out more and learn how things are in the real world.

    27th Feb 2019
    11:53am
    Interesting to see the howls of anger when their homes are included in asset test but these same ppl couldn’t give a rats that smsfs will lose franking credit refunds
    Just shows how selfish some people can be
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    11:55am
    Funny - I was waiting for the chance to put the opposite view - those with franked credits are the first to screech and howl about losing something unwarranted, and safe under existing tax rules anyway except for the rorters, but are the first to bay for blood if it means robbing some old lady of her food money.....

    Sickening, really... we need a row of guillotines...
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:06pm
    What, you don't own a home IN AUSTRALIA Lothario? Oh yes....money stashed overseas.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    4:18pm
    I will never be eligible for pension under labor's asset and income tests, with or without a house
    I once owned 5 houses in Oz, redistributed the ownership for tax reasons and no longer interested in property
    DFishkeeper
    27th Feb 2019
    11:56am
    The majority of people who own their own home have worked hard and gone without other things during their working lives to achieve this goal. They should not now be penalised for this.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    12:08pm
    Just like the majority who have saved and invested in shares , investment property and businesses
    How dare the government try and take away their hard earned wealth
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:28pm
    .. no tax concessions for investing in your own home... unlike shares trading and such... business, investment property.. all good reasons for the rules to be changed on what is permitted...Big Bad Bill is coming for you...
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:09pm
    There's a difference between the family home and shares, etc. You don't get INCOME from the family home. You don't sell the family home for profit. Only if you are sick and tired of where you live.
    The family home has ALWAYS been the family home. What gets on the goat of some Australians is knew that the family home is and always was the family home. A place to live. Make the distinction.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:46pm
    Mick, you also don't get much income - if any - from some assessed assets. But some are lucky enough to know how to invest for high returns. The assets test is unfair. That's the bottom line. It matters not whether it's the family home or some other asset that isn't returning adequately. Working on the assumption that an asset generates income is UNFAIR.

    I sympathize with the views expressed here, but equally it's patently unfair that distant neighbours upsized from a $500K home to a $2 million retirement home and get a full pension, while friends who DOWNSIZED to a $500,000 home unit to be self-supporting are struggling and threatened with a massive hit on their income by the stinking thieving Labor Party.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:46pm
    Mick, you also don't get much income - if any - from some assessed assets. But some are lucky enough to know how to invest for high returns. The assets test is unfair. That's the bottom line. It matters not whether it's the family home or some other asset that isn't returning adequately. Working on the assumption that an asset generates income is UNFAIR.

    I sympathize with the views expressed here, but equally it's patently unfair that distant neighbours upsized from a $500K home to a $2 million retirement home and get a full pension, while friends who DOWNSIZED to a $500,000 home unit to be self-supporting are struggling and threatened with a massive hit on their income by the stinking thieving Labor Party.
    DFishkeeper
    27th Feb 2019
    11:56am
    The majority of people who own their own home have worked hard and gone without other things during their working lives to achieve this goal. They should not now be penalised for this.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:10pm
    Indeed.
    Alexii
    27th Feb 2019
    12:02pm
    Home owners still have costs eg home insurance, rates, maintenance. Are they going to take these costs into account?
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:29pm
    As above - a home OWNER doesn't get those of tax.... an investor does, a business does, a shares trader does ...

    Gotta change to create equity....
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    12:05pm
    "According to the submission, 95 per cent of homeowners would be on retirement incomes at least equivalent to the Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia modest level, compared to 28 per cent of renting couples."

    So Mortgage Assistance is on the cards for homeowner pensioners with a mortgage....??? I mean, the Actuaries are talking about net income here after paying for a roof over your head....... and you can't discriminate.. nor can you differentiate between renters and mortgagees when you are discussing net income after roof.....

    Both have to pay... then throw in rates and such as well... the homeowner's (the homie) only benefit after mortgage and rates, is that they own the asset that they can't eat, and can pass that on.....
    Rosie
    27th Feb 2019
    12:05pm
    Maybe the asset test rules re exempt home need to be changed from a date in the future, and current pensioners benefits grandfathered. Something has to be done to stop the unnecessary loading of money into pensioners homes and the wild spending just to continue to meet the asset tests limits. What happens if the asset test limits get reduced a lot more over time and people have already spent anything extra they had?
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:30pm
    How many pensioners do YOU know who do that, Rosie?
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    5:02pm
    You can’t tell people how to spend their money Rosie. Pensioners should be treated the same whether they spent, instead of saving when young, or spend when they retire. This is why we should have Universal pension
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:40am
    We, the ex and I, have modified this place to suit her disabilities - does that come under the heading of throwing money into the house to get pension? We've had to do it with loans, and that doesn't leave much left over.

    Now she wants to move to the ocean side and that will involve more re-setting of the house to suit disabilities... and I've grown old and find it harder and harder.... 70 this year - what idiot came up with the idea of pension at 70?
    floss
    27th Feb 2019
    12:06pm
    Any Government would only get to do it once.Do we have two Lothario's god help us.Two fools in one day.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:22pm
    Lothario must be having a bad day, his multiple personalities must be at war with one another, doesn't know if Lothario 1 , Lothario 2 or FLV will win the day, we will have to wait and see.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:18pm
    Yeah, funny. A loser on steroids.
    Franky
    27th Feb 2019
    12:08pm
    1 million would be a fair exempt amount
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    12:51pm
    No, that’s a very basic home in Sydney or Melbourne
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:43am
    No - too low for too many ordinary homes in major centres - homes are not investment properties, and they actually cost the occupier money to live in ..... no tax concessions there....

    Such a system would need to be worked out on some sort of average for the area, and would be next to impossible for the ordinary public servant and politician... it would also need to be indexed annually.. too much paperwork.....

    Forget the whole idea... better to spend the money on the ATO so as to ensure proper tax recovery... and maybe change some rules that allow tax dodging for some ...
    Brissiegirl
    27th Feb 2019
    12:11pm
    A warning to all politicians whatever your party allegiances: Hands off the family home you lying, greedy, grab-all manipulating cunning self-serving thieves.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    12:14pm
    But it’s ok to steal
    Our franking credits ?
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    12:52pm
    Lothario, The two don’t compare.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    12:53pm
    They don’t compare because it doesn’t suit the green eyed monster in you
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    1:10pm
    No, because there are lots of options for those with Franking credits, sell shares, diversify, move your smsf to an industry fund, buy overseas shares etc.

    There is only one option with the family home. Sell and move somewhere else and struggle on what’s left after agents commission, advertising, buying and selling costs including stamp duty. For some, that might mean eventually having to rent for the rest of their lives.

    Absolutely, no incentive for people to try and save to buy their own home. Then, the pension bill would really rise.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:24pm
    Sundays there will be no incentive for anyone to do anything under a Labor government with their unfair stupid policies. The country is going to suffer enormously with the lack of investment or with too much overseas investment instead of local investment.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:24pm
    Sundays there will be no incentive for anyone to do anything under a Labor government with their unfair stupid policies. The country is going to suffer enormously with the lack of investment or with too much overseas investment instead of local investment.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:21pm
    Family home $1 million+
    Franking credits $10,000
    Only a half wit could compare the two.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    4:20pm
    Exactly Mick - labor should attack the family home not the piddly franking credits
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    4:20pm
    Exactly Mick - labor should attack the family home not the piddly franking credits
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    5:06pm
    OG, taxpayers and large superannuation funds will still invest in Australian shares. A few SFR missing out on Franking credits won’t change that.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:13pm
    Just make the old age pension a debt on one's estate instead as that's fair for all retirees.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:14pm
    Labor is already talking about doing this.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    12:16pm
    That would make the most sense
    If you have a house with more that $500k when you die , the govt sells it and gives your beneficiaries any left over after repaying any welfare you took during your lifetime
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:20pm
    No if you have assets then the whole lot you received in pension payments should be deducted from your estate before your heirs get their lottery win.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    12:21pm
    You’re a hard man OG, but I like your style
    almost a grey hair
    27th Feb 2019
    12:38pm
    Yeh OG better still make the riff raff put in first, like a bank so that when they reach pension age they can only draw out what they have put in regardless of home value.That should take care of the green eyed monster once and for all
    Sundays
    27th Feb 2019
    12:54pm
    Labor is not talking about doing this, but if I’m wrong where is the Link to prove your statement
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:33pm
    What utter nonsense from the peanut gallery... ...

    AAGH - Bob Menzies, that ultimate Communist, said that pension was a right irrespective of the amount any individual could contribute to the pot.......

    Liberal became Lieberal and Labour became Labor.... E.U. ..... Liberal added the E to approach reality, and Labor removed U from the equation......
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:22pm
    Fair to you OG.
    Brissiegirl
    27th Feb 2019
    5:49pm
    Oh yeah make the pension a debt on old people's estates and sooner rather than later people will stop buying houses, paying interest on the loans for their houses, paying rates, paying maintenance and wow won't the building industry love that hit.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:54pm
    Precisely, Brissiegirl. It's a STUPID notion that would do horrendous damage to the economy.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:54pm
    Precisely, Brissiegirl. It's a STUPID notion that would do horrendous damage to the economy.
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    10:16pm
    I imagine, OG, that if your arrogant wish came about the anti discrimination board would be inundated. One section of the population is not allowed to be discriminated against so everyone on taxpayer funded pensions judges, politicians, ex teachers, nurses, public hospita patients, etc would all have to have their personal assets seized by government at their death.
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:46am
    Why not just hand everything over to the state and let them nanny state it all out as required and depending on the whim of a public servant?

    Dumb idea, OG... or to be more severe with you - how dare you suggest that the state somehow owns the property of some and not others?
    Rae
    1st Mar 2019
    7:01am
    Triss all those people bought their pensions though after tax contributions. You really should take a look at how much it cost. Anyone could have paid the same savings after tax into markets and ended up with the same returns. Maybe even better returns as Government Super Funds returns were a bit dodgy and perhaps used as cash cows when times were tough.

    And they still pay tax on the employer portion of the pension they receive. It's only the 50% after tax portion untaxed because tax has already been paid and that 50% is deemed10% now by Centrelink so they have been badly disadvantaged by Hockey's changes.

    During the last 5 years of employment as much as 30% of after tax income is needed to be paid to fund these pensions.

    They are certainly not anything like the free money and concessions OAP get in welfare payments.

    The pensions paid to public servants come from the Superannuation Fund not the ATO or Centrelink.
    Old Geezer
    1st Mar 2019
    11:29am
    If you are on welfare (OAP) then you have paid nothing for it and therefore if you die with assets you should pay back any pension you have received.
    Misty
    1st Mar 2019
    12:25pm
    That is not true OG, people who work all their working lives and pay tax and who are eligible to receive the OAP have certainly paid for it in their taxes.
    OlderandWiser
    3rd Mar 2019
    8:22am
    So have people who support themselves in retirement, MIsty, but for some reason greedy folk don't acknowledge that and want them robbed by being forced to continue paying tax at an unfairly high rate on any dividend income they receive. Double standards and hypocrisy is all we see from Labor and its supporters.
    OlderandWiser
    3rd Mar 2019
    8:22am
    So have people who support themselves in retirement, MIsty, but for some reason greedy folk don't acknowledge that and want them robbed by being forced to continue paying tax at an unfairly high rate on any dividend income they receive. Double standards and hypocrisy is all we see from Labor and its supporters.
    musicveg
    3rd Mar 2019
    12:36pm
    So why the name change OGR?, now OAW
    Anonymous
    3rd Mar 2019
    1:12pm
    No brainer musicveg
    She was once a blind labor supporter and strong advocate for those on full or part pension
    She’s now seen the light
    Misty
    3rd Mar 2019
    1:33pm
    What is going on here?, are some people so confused they don't know who they are anymore?
    patti
    27th Feb 2019
    12:15pm
    I would say the median rent for many single pensioners would be a lot higher than $400 a fortnight.........unless they are in government housing. And a homeowner who is still paying a mortgage is disadvantaged, having to pay all the housing costs as well and not able to access any assistance like renters do. We can't assume that everyone who has their own home actually owns it.
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    12:18pm
    Check out the stats - 95% are living well
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:24pm
    Stats can lie.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:34pm
    Stats? What stats??????

    SHOW ME! Please explain??
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:26pm
    patti - mortgage repayments, rates, repairs and maintenance, updating to retain value, etc.
    Never any mention of the costs let alone the loss on income from money used to purchase the family home.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:53pm
    I figure it costs me at least $600 a fortnight to live in my own home, yet if I paid that much in rent I'd not only get a pension (which I don't get now) with all the pensioner concessions, but rent assistance as well. It's time to END this stupid system of rewarding leaners and punishing lifters (to use Hockey's terminology - despite me agreeing it's inappropriate and insulting generally).

    After 30 years of struggle to pay off a mortgage, I resent the penalties I suffer for doing what is good for the nation.
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:47am
    Cheap, Rainey.... I dread to do the figure.. what with all the running to doctors and such.... I know I'm broke every fortnight... but can still eat etc... got beer in the fridge...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    28th Feb 2019
    1:31am
    Sorry, I will correct my post 95% are NOT ok & living well, only 5 % that have 95% of the wealth. Apologies
    sunnyOz
    3rd Mar 2019
    1:02pm
    OlderandWiser - totally on board with you! And being single on the OAP, and home owner - hell it is harder! My sister is a 'leaner & lifter' - would win the Oscar for her performance. Even my parents help her out (gave her a new car) because she 'struggles'.

    BUT - she is WAY ahead of me! Has lived in a 3BR Govt house for over 40 years, all maintenance done by them. Pays $68 a week rent. Has been on the DSP most of that time - due to lung damage. Caused by? - smoking. Has smoked excessively all her life. Gets rewarded due to her own stupidity.

    No wonder she can go on a cruise every year! Yet I have worked my butt off for years, often working 3 jobs, curtailing holidays and even relationships, so as to put a roof over my head. Seems I was the fool. Some days I do not even go out the driveway in my 19yo car as I can't afford to.
    Absolutely - NO to any assets test including the family home. NO
    Misty
    3rd Mar 2019
    1:36pm
    I think the gremlins have got hold of YLC'S, this is an old post from sunnyOz posted days ago.
    Misty
    3rd Mar 2019
    1:37pm
    Or maybe sunnyOz is repeating it again just in case no one saw it the first time.
    SWOZ
    27th Feb 2019
    12:20pm
    The family home should become part of the total assets. It should be capped at $ 1 Million and the cap indexed at the same rate as the pension. Government authorized valuers should re-value the house every 5 years using clear guidelines based on sales values of similar assets in the respective area. If the asset is transferred to a partner, or other wider family member, and the retiree is living in the house rent-free, the rental value should be assessed at $ 100.- / room / week (excluding bathrooms, toilets, kitchen & laundry? and the pension reduced accordingly.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:30pm
    Ha ha. I once asked a valuer to value a property for me and he asked me how much I wanted him to value it at. Same house could be valued at $500,000 or $1 million depending on what the valuation is for.

    Far better to make the OAP available to everyone and then they pay it back from their estate when they die.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:30pm
    Ha ha. I once asked a valuer to value a property for me and he asked me how much I wanted him to value it at. Same house could be valued at $500,000 or $1 million depending on what the valuation is for.

    Far better to make the OAP available to everyone and then they pay it back from their estate when they die.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:37pm
    Nah - $1m would leave many pensioners in big cities begging on the streets or running organised criminal operations to earn bread...

    When are your fools that support such nonsense going to realise that poverty breeds crime, and crime costs more than pensions.

    I used to know a former bank robber, from the 1930's times he was - he said robbing a rich man's bank didn't count since it was all stolen and was covered by insurance anyway, and insurance companies were thieves anyway.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:27pm
    You don't own a house SWOZ?
    Brissiegirl
    27th Feb 2019
    5:51pm
    Swoz, ever heard of the green-eyed monster?
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:25pm
    Politics of envy starts and finishes with the fat cats who feel that anyone needing a lift from the public purse - that isn't them - is getting something for nothing....
    Spiro
    27th Feb 2019
    12:30pm
    The family home should be included in the assets test and the assets threshold lifted to reflect this. As an example if the assets threshold was lifted by one million dollars, someone living in a $500,000 home could have other assets up to $500,000. This would mean everyone is treated equally.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    12:40pm
    Unfortunately not.
    KSS
    27th Feb 2019
    1:05pm
    $1m or even $500,000 would not go far in areas like Sydney or Melbourne. That is unfair!
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:37pm
    Average for the area? How do you actually work it out to make it fair to everyone?
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:30pm
    So where does one buy a $500,000 home?
    Rosie
    27th Feb 2019
    8:51pm
    Sounds good to me Spiro. It isn't a fair pension asset test since Morrison's asset changes came in.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    10:02pm
    Plenty in my town Mick, starting from about $200,000, that if you can put up with living in the country, about 22 diferent eateries, Asian, Thai, Chinese, Indian, Japanese, Aussie, clean air to breathe,the downside is no public transport, food and food prices are higher. 90 minutes to the coat, 90 minuts to the mountains, 90 minutes from Canberra, a great place to live. Another town close by, Bombala, has homes for sale from $159,000 if anyone is interested.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    10:04pm
    I meant to say fuel and food prices are higher.
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:49am
    Yes - I miss that cleaner air down there, Misty.... love that snow in winter.... crisp cold air....
    Batara
    27th Feb 2019
    12:35pm
    The age of entitlement is far from over. We old folk refuse to surrender any entitlement we think we can get.
    Batara
    27th Feb 2019
    12:35pm
    The age of entitlement is far from over. We old folk refuse to surrender any entitlement we think we can get.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:48pm
    Why should we, Batara? Why should we constantly suffer harsher and harsher penalty for working, saving and living responsibly? It's GOOD for the nation for people to work, save and invest. It's GOOD for the nation for people to buy a home. Why are we continually focused on rewarding irresponsible lifestyles? Communism has proved a failure.
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    8:24am
    Rainey around 700 are hitting retirement age every day now and most of them never saved for retirement. The Government hasn't prepared for them either. They took and spent the welfare fund.
    This current mob have been dishing out billions to mates, foreign corporations and governments for 6 long years of pirating everything public.Signing bad trade deals and selling everything for appallingly low returns.

    They got away with the asset test and income test changes. The next mob plan to take franking credits back regardless of the fact it will only hit the few in the middle.

    Treasury is empty, the banks are full of debt on assets worth less every month and we have drought and flood and storms and a terrible mess.

    We should have stuck together when they came for the first victims.

    Personally I'm not impressed with the pensioners who spent decades buying bigger and better homes instead of saving for income in retirement. That was always going to become an issue. Why should they be the only weath accumulators to get a free ride on the public purse?

    And I had tragedy and adversity and overcame it and contributed what I was told to contribute. All to have that 48% deemed 10% and to be denied a concession card and relief from high charges for everything as I'd been promised for 40 years and with no recourse whatsoever. I couldn't change it or get my money back.

    The investors in expensive housing are getting a free ride as are those who spent on all manner of wasteful and unnecessary lifestyle choice. Savers are being hit because there is no money left. Now they look at homes freely owned and see that as a solution.

    Blind Freddy could have seen it coming.
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:51pm
    I know where you are coming from, Rae. I also worked hard and struggled against some massive challenges, only to see others who had an easy ride manipulate their finances to live very well off the public purse. At some point, the idiots in power have to wake up to what their stupid system is doing. We saw the writing on the wall years ago. Why didn't they? Or is it that they did, but they were too far removed from any risk of pain to care?
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:51pm
    I know where you are coming from, Rae. I also worked hard and struggled against some massive challenges, only to see others who had an easy ride manipulate their finances to live very well off the public purse. At some point, the idiots in power have to wake up to what their stupid system is doing. We saw the writing on the wall years ago. Why didn't they? Or is it that they did, but they were too far removed from any risk of pain to care?
    KSS
    27th Feb 2019
    1:02pm
    You cannot put a dollar value on a cap on the home asset. It would become far too unwieldy accounting for the differences in housing markets across Australia. $1m in Sydney or Melbourne will not get you very far yet $500,000 in outback WA may get you an absolute palace. And what would happen in times of rampant growth in value such as the last 10 years or the slump in prices hitting now? 'They' have not reduced the deeming rates to match actual low rates currently being obtained over the past 7 years, what makes anyone think they would alter the dollar value of the home to adjust for rises and falls in the housing market?

    If the home is to be assessed as a disposable asset (and I don't say it should), it would be more relevant to determine size rather than an arbitrarily assigned dollar value. Say a single or couple in a two bedroom dwelling not assessible, a single or couple in a five bedroom mansion regardless of location, could be assessed as having the potential to downsize to release funds whilst still keeping a home.

    Home owners are already discriminated against in favour of those that do not from the threshold for the pension (and all running costs not incurred by renters are ignored such as rates, water, strata fees, general and ongoing maintenance, replacement fixtures and fittings such as the cooker/fridge that landlords would normally replace at no costs to the tenant etc). There is no assistance to those people whose assets are just over the threshold unlike the various supplements non-home owners can apply for. And then if Labor takes office, the capital gains on the home will be slashed by 50% to 25% (currently 50%) tax free.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:10pm
    You also can't use the number of bedrooms either as that is equally unfair. The house I live in has 3 bedrooms. a study, movie room, office and rumpus room plus enough garage spaces for at least 7 cars.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:27pm
    Wow OG and you accepted hand outS at XMAS, shame on you, I hope you included them in your TAX RETURN.
    KSS
    27th Feb 2019
    1:38pm
    Lucky you OG but then you don't own it either right? That's what you've claimed in the past right?
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:49pm
    No I don't own the house and yes I accepted the Xmas gifts with gratitude too.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:59pm
    Isn't that just another form of welfare OG?.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:38pm
    What about the income and cash bearing assets pre tax concessions? Catch the rich and the rorters in their old age when theycan't run away...
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    3:21pm
    What concessions? I have seen any myself.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    3:21pm
    What concessions? I have seen any myself.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:45pm
    Oh, great idea, KSS. So the grandparents who need a large home to accommodate orphaned grandchildren during school vacations not only cop the cost of feeding and entertaining their darlings, but also a massive hit for owning a home large enough that the little ones can come and stay. It's always so simple for people who can't think past their own situation and a small circle of associates, or BS theories. The whole stuffed up system was devised by morons who can't think outside a narrow square. Any further changes will only make it worse. LEAVE PEOPLE WHO WORK AND SAVE ALONE AND GIVE EVERYONE THE SAME RETIREMENT PENSION. Then there will be incentives to work and save and live responsibly and the entire nation will benefit. Let charities look after the genuinely poor, as they did in the past (where their needs exceed the basic universal pension, that is).

    We need INCENTIVES AND REWARDS, not constant bashing of everyone who contributes to the economy.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:27pm
    Sounds like you live in a halfway house, OG .... hmmmmm
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:50am
    That is welfare, Misty - pensions are not... if I want welfare I can go to the Salvos....
    Mikko
    27th Feb 2019
    1:12pm
    Boy there would be long queues at St Vinnies and the Salvos if any government was ever stupid enough to do this but I doubt that will ever happen. Housing values vary widely all over Australia - the value of modest homes in Sydney, Melbourne and many seaside locations including the Sunshine Coast would buy McMansions in rural and regional towns, is I would be more worried about the negative impacts of Labor's restrictive negative gearing and capital gains tax changes as pointed out this week by the Property Council of Australia https://www.therealestateconversation.com.au/news/2019/02/27/changes-negative-gearing-wont-stimulate-housing-demand/1551230775
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    2:39pm
    There'd be boatloads of firearms arriving on the shores of this nation and going into the hands of pensioners and their families... just business, you unnerstan'.... quick yacht trip to the Philippines, load up, hidden stashes in the boat.... voila...
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    1:28pm
    Any govt who even hints at this will never get elected.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:38pm
    It might. Voters can easily shoot themselves in both feet after Murdoch, 7 and 9 News and the right wing shock jocks do their stuff.
    Old Geezer
    1st Mar 2019
    11:33am
    Labor is already talking about adding the house to the asset test and making any pensions received a debt on one's estate to. They are desperate for money.
    Misty
    1st Mar 2019
    12:34pm
    Wrong again OG, I just rang Bill Shorten's office and read them the gist of your comment and it is not correct, Labor has no plans for eithey including the family home in the assett test or making people pay back their pensions, why don't you ring themyour self before making outlandish statements that are not true, will only cost you a small amount for the phone call, but maybe you can't afford that either if one is to be believed by your previous comments OG.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:40pm
    Oh my goodness! Misty is deluded enough to actually believe the award-winning liars supporting politicians! Misty, OG is way too smart to waste money on a phone call to listen to liars.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:40pm
    Oh my goodness! Misty is deluded enough to actually believe the award-winning liars supporting politicians! Misty, OG is way too smart to waste money on a phone call to listen to liars.
    Shelley53
    27th Feb 2019
    1:28pm
    fairer perhaps is if the rent allowance is increased to a realistic level to help those who dont own their
    own home.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:59pm
    Just rent something cheaper not a luxury apartment.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    1:59pm
    Just rent something cheaper not a luxury apartment.
    MICK
    27th Feb 2019
    3:39pm
    Yeah OG. Go live in a tent yourself.
    musicveg
    27th Feb 2019
    3:56pm
    OG that is not a reasonable thing to "just rent something cheaper" they do not exist anymore. People are paying huge amounts of rent for a dump. I live in a regional area and it is near impossible to find anything to rent under $300 per week. Even flats are $250.
    Aussie
    27th Feb 2019
    4:40pm
    Well yes over $250 and just for a small room sharing with other people or with your kids

    I decide not to give my kids a problem so I spend as much time as I can time outside Australia and I am able to rent a full house or nice apartment depending where I go and with water views for about $200/250 x MONTH ..... no way to compare living on small room with other people sharing bathroom and kitchen and the living room Agggggggg

    Food for about another $400/500 x MONTH .....

    With a total pension of $1,700 x Month ($858 x fortnight - Minimum allowed outside Australia) no Medicare or any other privileges is easy to save $500/600 for a cheap return ticket and able to have great living enjoying great places meeting lots of new people from all over the world.

    In fact I am saving the government a lot of money because I do not get any of the extras you will get while living in Australia, Medical, Rental concessions and more and more (Over $4,000 x year saving).

    So that is my way of better living in my retirement years and have nothing just a suitcase with Undies, Shorts, Thongs Tee shirts and of course the aerogard and sun block he he he he Great life and my kids join me some times with their families while I am outside and when in Australia for few months I stay with them them I go again and again .......

    And no worries with Assets tests or any other stuff that some of you are normally getting crazy about it .....
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    4:42pm
    Well done Aussie .way to go !!!
    Aussie
    27th Feb 2019
    4:57pm
    Thanks mate .... No choice I have to have a nice life in my retirement and my beautiful country is to expensive ... so no choice I had to make that decision to my regret but now when we travel together with my kids is just great ... they go back I stay he he he he ....

    Thanks mate yes I am having a great retirement ..... and I have meet lots of Australians, English, Americans and from many other European countries living permanently overseas in Bali, Thailand, China, Cambodia, Vietnam etc .....

    Thanks Lothario
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:40pm
    Musicveg, living in one's own home costs a lot also, and home owners are deprived of pension benefits. It think it's time we ended this mentality that we should be constantly handing out to people who don't look after their own interests. If we keep up this rubbish, we'll have a nation of bludger, cheats and leaners, because it's becoming just to hard to do what's good for the nation.

    It was okay when people generally recognized that the pension was for the down and out only, and the pension was very minimal. Now, it's worth manipulating to claim benefits and except for the wealthy, hardly worth bothering to strive to avoid it. Shorten will ensure there is no incentive to work, save and invest, and this dumb proposal will stop people struggling to pay off a mortgage and just invite us all to put our hands out for rent assistance. It's idiotic! It is NOT good for the nation, and ultimately we will be unable to afford all the handouts and then the poor will learn what poverty is really like!
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:55am
    " bludger, cheats and leaners,"

    They're already in politics...... but you are right - the current system encourages cheating and rorting.. and holds no hope for a better future.... certainly not with limited employment, the permanent recession since the 1980's, and thus the lack of hope for many to ever have an adequate nest egg to offset need for pension. Not everyone can get Joe's 'good job' at the drop of a hat... and then ride the gravy train for life... many of the kids these days work part-time casual in MacJobs and have little to no hope for a viable future...
    Bazza13
    27th Feb 2019
    2:10pm
    The fact that you own a house is already indirectly asset tested when you apply for the pension if it is not why are the asset thresholds for home owners and non home owners different.
    Leave our houses alone,also the asset thresholds that were lowered in 2014 budget should be restored it has disadvantaged many pensioners who planned for their retirement.
    Rosie
    28th Feb 2019
    10:23am
    Yes Bazza13, we need the asset test limits completely reworked to be fair to all. An overall total figure comprising shares etc, bank accounts, super and a value of family home combined somehow. Even better would be a universal pension but I can't see any liberal controlled government bringing one in.
    jakobo
    27th Feb 2019
    2:21pm
    Im on a disability pension and I managed to save half the money I receive from centrelink,now I will be eligible for the age pension in twelve months time.how much money can I have in my savings to be eligible for the pension as I do not have any income, just the money I receive forthnightly.
    Farside
    27th Feb 2019
    3:14pm
    a long overdue and welcome reform. The challenge is determining how to either tax the home or reduce welfare paid to asset rich.
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    3:17pm
    Easy if you get the OAP you pay it back when you die.
    Farside
    27th Feb 2019
    4:26pm
    in principle recovering welfare payments from the estate works for me though these would have to be financed in the intervening years
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:12pm
    Rubbish. Stop punishing responsible living. We will end up with a nation of bludgers and leaners who won't work, save, or try to buy a home because it's too hard and there's no reward. We need a universal pension to recognize the endeavours of older Australians and ensure they are rewarded appropriately. Leave their savings and assets alone!
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    10:34pm
    For heavens’s sake,OG, you can’t be that tunnel visioned. Why would you struggle to get a home just to give it to the government? Why would you go without to save up wages that you have worked for so you can give it to the government when you die? Government is going to have a heck of an output because everyone will be poor enough at retirement age to access the full pension and rent assistance. The money that they have worked for they will spend on themselves and their families whilst they are young enough to enjoy it.
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:58am
    Pay back all concessions on tax, childcare money, PPl... if you demand pensions be paid back when they are paid for in advance, you must naturally demand payback for all other really free handouts that government is fond of giving.

    Cancel childcare and PPL and the pensions are looking rosy in the costs... bring companies and business to heel over their tax dodging and income shifting, and the budget looks good.... go through the rorters with a fine toothed comb and everything will come up roses.
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    8:33am
    The family home is taxed. Rates, water corp and stamp duties have been paid . These are all taxes. Even Strata fees could count as a form of tax on future costs.

    Yes TREBOR all concessions, welfares, rebates, grants would have be considered.
    Old Geezer
    1st Mar 2019
    11:36am
    Your house is no good to you when you die so why not have people who get paid the OAP pay it back from their estate.

    It's the only fair thing to do.
    Farside
    1st Mar 2019
    1:24pm
    simple solution is to run a current account with Centrelink and either settle it or write off balance upon death.
    musicveg
    27th Feb 2019
    3:37pm
    I really think if you have lived in your home for many years it should not be part of the asset tests, because you may have bought it when it was very cheap to buy and now because the area has gone up in prices why should you be at fault. Is it a ploy by the housing developers to push old people out of their homes so they can buy up, demolish and develop the land?
    One thing this article did get right is that rent assistance needs to go up, especially considering they want to kick people out of their homes.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:09pm
    Home ownership isn't cheap. It can cost more than renting when rent assistance is taken into account. We need an end to this bashing of workers and savers.
    And why only protect those who have lived in their homes for many years? So the couple who downsized in retirement should suffer? How is that reasonable? I know people who downsized and relocated on retirement and just 5 years later their home has almost doubled in value. Should they be kicked out, or deprived of income while those who inherited inner-city mansions are protected?
    Aussie
    27th Feb 2019
    3:41pm
    Please do not do any more studies on the pension please please ...... every time an study is made lots of other not related issues to the study pop up and then they use those to cut something more from our pensions so please please no more studies ..... the gov. is doing at least one or two studies x year on pension issues ... I think ...why why ??? ... now the Home ..... WHAT TO DO ???? Where to live in peace ???

    We can not keep paying for the seat warmers politician to keep there bum worm .... is all bull .... Changes to Asset test ..... another political scum .....

    I think there is a team of politicians dedicated to stuff our retirement life with studies and decisions without any concern for the consequences of their decisions ....
    musicveg
    27th Feb 2019
    3:59pm
    Meanwhile politicians retain their $300,000 per year pension without asset testing, this I think is the most unfair thing there is, no one has the guts to change this.
    Aussie
    27th Feb 2019
    5:05pm
    Correct they are all like sheep ....follow each other on the shit they make for us .... that is why I spend most of my time out of this mess until I see a drastic change ...... but I know will never come and the country is going down and down .... I can see on the exchange rates while overseas getting close to 1 = 1 with Asian currencies ..... there has been a 35% average down on the exchange rates over the last 2 years .....
    Triss
    27th Feb 2019
    10:38pm
    It’s not unfair, Musicveg, it’s corrupt.
    Rae
    1st Mar 2019
    7:26am
    Yes Aussie the $AU is falling fast. We are in big trouble now I suspect. I wouldn't put it past the LNP to deliberately stuff the economy if they believe Labor will win the next election.
    Dot
    27th Feb 2019
    3:58pm
    NO ASSETS TESTS FOR REUGEES OR BOAT PEOPLE. GIVE THEM EVERYTHING THEY WANT AND THE BLOODY REST OF LAW ABIDING PATRIOTIC CITIZENS CAN PAY. IT'S LITTLE WONDER THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE TO THE DOG HOUSE. ROLL ON WORLD WAR 3
    musicveg
    27th Feb 2019
    4:02pm
    Roll on ww3 are you kidding me? How is that going to help? The refugees are coming from wars, yes maybe some are economical refugees but look at what happened in Syria that cause the mass migration into Europe. Anyway we are supposed to be sticking to the subject not bringing in the boat people thing again, been there done that too many times over.
    Farside
    27th Feb 2019
    4:33pm
    another misguided rant from a caps-lock loving keyboard warrior ... "roll on WW3", surely this is the realm of the most unhinged poster.
    Dot
    27th Feb 2019
    3:58pm
    NO ASSETS TESTS FOR REUGEES OR BOAT PEOPLE. GIVE THEM EVERYTHING THEY WANT AND THE BLOODY REST OF LAW ABIDING PATRIOTIC CITIZENS CAN PAY. IT'S LITTLE WONDER THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE TO THE DOG HOUSE. ROLL ON WORLD WAR 3
    Cowboy Jim
    27th Feb 2019
    5:24pm
    Might have been better off supporting Adolf in WW2, might have to get used to German language. Now you guys better learn Arabic.

    27th Feb 2019
    4:36pm
    When they introduced the asset test, good people did nothing
    When they upped the pension age to 67 the good people did nothing
    When they want to take franking credits away from poor SFR's the good people said nothing

    Finally when labor comes for the good peoples homes, there will be no one left to help them
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:06pm
    True, Lothario. I have already resolved I will never again speak up for pensioners after the disgusting manner in which they supported Labor's theft from battling SFRs. I used to champion the cause of the underdog, but the selfishness and nastiness has turned me.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:31pm
    Ohhh - I dunno... I saw one hell of a lot of complaining about all those things.....

    You are imputing power to those who can only protest...... don't forget... never forget.. the decent majority were meaningless - it was the radicals who made the difference ....
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:32pm
    We're planning to do plenty about your tax dodging, Lothario.... better join Aussie fast...
    Older lady
    27th Feb 2019
    4:42pm
    So fed up with being penalised for working hard. Just totally over it.
    I should have been a taker. A user. Dodged taxes. Every way I turn I’m penalised.
    Now my house ? I give up !!
    Old Geezer
    27th Feb 2019
    4:48pm
    Yep do the right thing and get fleeced.
    Not a Bludger
    27th Feb 2019
    4:53pm
    You are so right,Older Lady - every leftie and rentseeker in town wants to get a piece of everything that my wife & I struggled so hard, over some 60 years, to pay for and own - and that now we have such limited capacity to defend.
    Appalling.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    7:03pm
    Ain't that the truth, Older lady. So disgusted! Other countries respect the aging and pay them the pension they earned and deserve, with no means tests - but then tax income, as they should. Government should GET IT'S BLOODY HAND OFF my hard-won savings. THEY ARE MINE. But everything is geared to take from workers and savers and give to bludgers and spendthrifts. Even in will disputes, the bludger, spendthrift, cheat and abuser gets the handouts and the poor honest battler who cared for the deceased for years pays a king's ransom to useless lawyers to be blackmailed and shafted. It's SICK!
    Anonymous
    27th Feb 2019
    7:08pm
    Older Lady, Not A Bludger and OnlyGenuineRainey, I feel for you guys and what the socialists are doing.
    Its so unfair
    Old Geezer, I know like me you'll be OK . Worst case, if it gets really bad and Shorten wants to hit me with ridiculous taxes, I will move overseas permanently
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:34pm
    It isn't these mythical 'lefties' who want everything from you - it's the 'righties' who believe in selling off everything the people own and handing it to their mats as a nice little earner.. it's called privatisation and its currency is pure greed.

    Name these ' lefties and rentseekers' for us - the majority of your growing costs are directly due to the greed of the 'righties'...
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:44pm
    I disagree Trebor. All I see from the left is 'take their money and give it to me'. Higher pensions. More rent assistance. But asset test the family home and overtax SFRs who invest in shares. Take take take take take. I agree the right is selling off the country's assets and overfeeding their rich mates, but what I see of the left - I think the right the lesser of the evils. Not that either is acceptable in any way.
    Cowboy Jim
    27th Feb 2019
    5:22pm
    Leave the pensioner in their expensive homes, they mostly paid for them. Once they pass on tax every home sold at 50% over $2 million. The pensioners will live in their neighborhood but the children will not get the inheritance tax free. If we could not accumulate property tax free for the next generation house prices would not as high. We are obsessed with family home value!
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    8:41am
    No it was importing millions of immigrants in a short time to raise GDP and boost the property market.

    Apparently helping others to a better life while ensuring Australians get a worse life was deemed appropriate.

    We chose to limit our family size to create better lives but the Nations in strife didn't. Now they want to come in to ur Country from where there are too many people and too few resources and the do gooders want us all to pay for this.
    Jansview
    27th Feb 2019
    5:38pm
    I don’t have a problem with putting a capping on the value of the family home when we’re talking about $2m properties but for the average Pensioner, like myself, in a very modest home I think it’s political suicide. The type of people preparing these reports and pollies in general seem have no idea how people are struggling. They’ve lost touch with reality and it’s fine for them, they have their heads so deep in the money trough, handouts while they’re in Parliament, great Super when they opt out, then take a nice job as a diplomat or the like, all the while collecting the P/Pension and a high wage at the same time. Free travel, back-handers, don’t have to pay their own Medical Insurance. etc, etc, ...... nice gig!

    I also think this arguement of renters vs home owners is skewed. A homeowner has usually worked bl....y hard to get that home, but not only that, they pay Council Rates, Water Rates, House Insurance, Emergency Service’s Levy, .. When the hot water system packs up, the renter calls the landlord or their agent, we call a plumber. The aircon needs service or repair, likewise, the gutters need cleaning or worse still replacing, white ants move in or you pay for a plan to try and prevent it. The list goes on. Who’s better off in the long run?
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    6:56pm
    Valid comment, Jansview. I get very angry at the constant whinging of renters demanding fatter handouts. Most of them had the same opportunity to own a home as I did, if they had been willing to make the sacrifices it took. Why should homeowners be punished for 20+ years of struggle and going without to pay off a mortgage? And yes, the costs of ownership can be high. In fact, some homeowners are worse off than renters when everything is counted. Those with older homes might have very high maintenance costs, and as the years roll on, maintenance costs rise and the owner's capacity to DIY falls, so costs increase.

    The universal pension is the right answer. All this meanness by governments MUST STOP. We worked hard and paid taxes. We should not suffer now for being responsible. Abolish the Assets Test completely - because it NEVER should have been implemented - and the problems of people rorting by buying expensive homes go away. Then tax income. So simple, for anyone with common sense. Once the assets test is gone, people with expensive homes will opt to sell and invest the proceeds if they need more income.
    OlderandWiser
    27th Feb 2019
    6:56pm
    Valid comment, Jansview. I get very angry at the constant whinging of renters demanding fatter handouts. Most of them had the same opportunity to own a home as I did, if they had been willing to make the sacrifices it took. Why should homeowners be punished for 20+ years of struggle and going without to pay off a mortgage? And yes, the costs of ownership can be high. In fact, some homeowners are worse off than renters when everything is counted. Those with older homes might have very high maintenance costs, and as the years roll on, maintenance costs rise and the owner's capacity to DIY falls, so costs increase.

    The universal pension is the right answer. All this meanness by governments MUST STOP. We worked hard and paid taxes. We should not suffer now for being responsible. Abolish the Assets Test completely - because it NEVER should have been implemented - and the problems of people rorting by buying expensive homes go away. Then tax income. So simple, for anyone with common sense. Once the assets test is gone, people with expensive homes will opt to sell and invest the proceeds if they need more income.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:36pm
    You got it Rainey - universal pension and then tax income above...including income-bearing assets and fringe benefits.

    Look at Lothario and his rorts...pays not one cent to use OUR roads...
    Lewi
    27th Feb 2019
    5:44pm
    if my home has to be included in my assets I have to move to old people home can hardly live on the pension now 1380 per 2 weeks we get we need it to go to 1500 at 20 march to live little better thank you
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    8:45am
    Close to $700 a week and concessions on everything is very generous. Maybe you need to look at where you are wasting money. I live on far less than that and live very well.

    I also save a lot too.
    Cowboy Jim
    28th Feb 2019
    10:19am
    You have a point Rae. $700 a week is not bad when considering concessions. My beef is health insurance takes $100 a week and at our age we do not want to toss it in. A real disincentive to get health insurance.
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    12:29pm
    Yes Cowboy I find the health insurance expensive. The $42 gap I pay and the $29 or $22 for scripts too rather than nothing and $6 aged pensioners are charged.

    Aged Pensioners have no idea how lucky they are they didn't save into Super for decades. Not only could they spend that money then but they get a pretty good deal now.
    ashydasher
    27th Feb 2019
    8:01pm
    I live in the house I was born in. In the 1930s my suburb would have been thought of as 'working class', land and homes were cheap because of the slow departure of the Depression. In the meantime, through no fault of my family or myself it has increased in value and now I find that those with some sort of twisted minds are saying I should move out and downsize. Downsize to WHAT! It would mean losing lifetime friends I have in the area, giving up hobbies, ceasing my volunteer work. Give me a month in some 'downsize' place and I guarantee that within that time I would be the greatest liability to the health system and simply not wishing to be on this Earth anymore. If the home was asset tested and the pension lowered accordingly I would have no choice, am already faced with a dwindling reverse mortgage to supplement the pension. NO, not spent on cruises or other luxuries, just used to supplement an inadequate age pension for basic essentials.
    I have to wonder about the agenda of those who say pensioners should downsize, maybe they don't know the reason themselves, maybe they have some dark axe to grind.
    Perhaps I could mention that from age 16 to a few years past what is thought of as a retiring age I worked, paid tax and never spent a day on welfare.
    TREBOR
    27th Feb 2019
    8:36pm
    Friend of mine inherited a house in Paddington bought by her father when it was working class.... can't begin to imagine what it's worth now.
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    8:49am
    I can't imagine what people spend $650 a week on when the concessions discount everything and they own their homes. Must be a lot of high living going on. Most workers get around that after taxes and super contributions and have families and debt as well.
    Cowboy Jim
    28th Feb 2019
    10:24am
    Trebor - we bought a small house in Carlton in 1978 for $42500. Checked the last sale of same house - was sold June 2018 for $1.160 million and it still has no garage. Parking on street with a residential sticker. I supposed I should have kept the house instead saving into super.
    GrayComputing
    27th Feb 2019
    8:01pm
    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    A pension is not welfare.

    Now is the season for discontent, so do something about it!
    It is time to kill off this insane hugely expensive pensioner whacking bureaucracy.

    It is time for all of us (yes that means you) to rant at our MPs and Senators daily to take action for human decency and a huge stress reduction for pensioners

    NO ASSET TEST FOR A PENSION EVER AGAIN!
    A pension is not welfare.

    Most economist say we will save taxpayers money by dropping asset testing because of the massive overheads cost in running Centrelink and the 10,000 conflicting rules.

    Hiring more Centrelink staff will only increase taxpayer’s costs for processing the creeping insane red tape monster system politicians and well paid bureaucrats have created.

    Help scrap it now. Become a hero.

    Even poorer New Zealand has a NO ASSET pension so it is cheaper and user friendly.

    Why worry that few million$ earners get it too. That is peanuts to them, not enough for a good vintage champagne.

    Do retired and retiring people really look forward and want 100++ visits to/from Centrelink and be part of 3 million waiting queues and lost calls?

    We all (that means you) need to tell our MP and senators every day that these criminal asset tests for a pension must be dropped now.

    Does your MP really like being part of the system that allows this indirect abuse of the elderly?

    This abuse is actually sponsored by our government and forced down to Centrelink and borders on a criminal act.
    Misty
    27th Feb 2019
    10:18pm
    Why do you have to contact and ring Centrelink and stand in queues GrayComputing?, Centrelink and the ATO cross check everything about you now so surely you do not have to ring 100++ times etc, etc.
    john
    27th Feb 2019
    10:39pm
    Taking the family home into account as an asset that creates income , well that is a joke. FOR RETIRED PEOPLE , IT IS A DISASTER.
    The more fiddling with the pension rules the more stupid things get. Pension should be larger than they are and they are deserved, not some privilege, you actually work your life for some kind of income protection WHEN YOU ARE OLDER..
    Yet these times we see everyone with a plan.... to do what? Save money? At whose expense?
    Well it appears older folk who have given all their lives and deserve a safe full and wealthy finish to their time on this earth. Because all of you even you brilliant ideas men with nothing but mathematics to make you worth while, you too will get to the age where you deserve a bit of help.
    Don't cut your own throats, pensions are A RIGHT ! ! ! A RIGHT!
    ashydasher
    27th Feb 2019
    10:49pm
    To Trebor:
    I did not inherit the family home, I bought it from my mother at assessed market value when she needed to go into care. It not only gave her the money she needed for proper 24hour care but solved the problem of her having to leave the home she had been in from being a newly-wed to spending the next 60+ years during which time she raised a family - her necessarily professional daily care was nearby and she came home every weekend.
    Very little thought, to none at all, is given by society to the dilemma and trauma for an elderly person to have to leave their home for whatever reason. To me it borders on an obscenity to try to dictate to them to vacate for any reason at all. A combination of family values and respect from society in general is needed for this aspect of life. How about a discussion on the subject by YourLifeChoices!
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    12:27am
    Thanks - good story.

    But why me? I oppose anything our government of two parties puts forward.. and this one is utterly reprehensible... they don't own your property - you do!
    Arvo
    28th Feb 2019
    12:02am
    Welfare, pensions are for the poor not for people with wealth.
    TREBOR
    28th Feb 2019
    1:02am
    Make that edible wealth... you can't eat a house.... not in one sitting anyway....
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    8:56am
    That's not true for all those who upgraded homes decade after decade and now live in multi million dollar homes receiving full pensions and concessions.

    There is also the problem of being poor because of failure to control consumption and save anything.

    Savers end up with wealth but they may have lived as "poor" people to do so.

    Where is the equity?

    A universal pension system and tax of other income would allow a level playing field.
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:34pm
    If that's true, Arvo, someone needs to sort out the mess we have at present because a very small portion of the population is genuinely poor, other than through their own irresponsible money management. There should be very few on pensions if they are only for the poor, so let's take them away from all who are not poor or whose mismanagement resulted in them being poor, and see how that goes! We have a choice of that, a warped and twisted system that is being widely exploited, or a universal pension like in every other developed country - recognising that the aged should be cared for and that saving should be encouraged and rewarded.

    Rae is right. A universal pension and tax on all other income is the only sensible solution, and would provide a major boost to the economy
    Blinky
    28th Feb 2019
    1:30am
    I totally agree with Lizzie. Not only do homes increase 8n value over the years but you may also have done extensions or invested on improvements which have added value to it.
    STOP 8ncreasing pensioners' anxiety by introducing detrimental changes. Any well-meaning govt should worry more about 8ncreasing, rather than decreasing pensioners' welfare. If u have a nice home it's cause u worked hard n u deserve it. ISN'T THAT FAIR ENOUGH???
    Politicians can have not only one, but many homes n they dont need to worry about losing their pensions n they wanna TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS????
    Rae
    28th Feb 2019
    8:59am
    The Institute of Actuaries Australia should stop bashing the Elderly and work out how to get taxes from the profits of multi national corporations bleeding the country dry in my opinion.
    Linda
    28th Feb 2019
    9:38am
    Perhaps Lotherio 1 and 2 are one and the same person. Perhaps he is playing a game with our forum for his own entertainment. Wikipedia and other dictionaries give many clues to suggest this is so.

    "Lothario is a notorious seducer, extremely attractive but beneath his charming exterior a haughty and unfeeling scoundrel"
    JoJozep
    28th Feb 2019
    10:32am
    Has anyone noticed the IAA (Institute of Actuaries Australia) is actually a prebudget arm of Treasury? check out the link above and blind Freddie can see this from the address and email return path.

    Yes, the government is sneaking a preview by getting comments from all the listed participants as to whether the government will commit Hari Kari if they meddle with homeownership as part of the assets test. They also employ the likes of the Grattan Institute, most likely another government stooge "Institute" to get feedback before they set an agenda for the coming elections.

    By the way, I hate the use of the term "Grattan" as it tries to align with Melbourne University which is in Grattan Street, Parkville. They are not an MU affiliate but a bunch of arseholes, talking up the government's agenda. I wouldn't be surprised if the government funds both Institutes.

    Hasn't anyone noticed the government is working overtime trying to be popular, for which it needs public support? One way to do it is to get Leon to bring up these diabolical issues to get the sheep to follow the path to the edge and give the government feedback on popular support or otherwise, without appearing to circulate policy and make things obvious.

    At the same time, remember politicians can smell a bucket of money well outside Canberra, and a Trillion dollars in home ownership is so tempting, the government is crying for more funds so they can spend more on themselves and their cronies.

    Wake up Australia!
    Misty
    28th Feb 2019
    11:19am
    Yes Jo Jozep, almost every day now there is a new announcement aimed at promoting this govt in the public eye, too late I am afraid, as surely most Aussies can see through this ploy. I think most Australians have already made up their minds who they are going to vote for and just tune out when they hear the latest announcements, especially if it doesn't affect their lifestyle.
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:29pm
    Well, we have a choice of hell or damnation. Both parties plan to rip off, rob and abuse. The only difference is the method and the immediate target. Labor is trying to be popular by telling massive lies and bashing self-funded retirees. Since they introduced the assets test and raised the retirement age, you can be sure they WILL introduce the house into the assets test, but first they will forced hundreds of thousands more onto the OAP. Then the high cost of pensions will provide the perfect excuse for making life harder for all retirees. The LNP, on the other hand, are more likely to attack homeowners first. In the end, the consequences will be the same.
    Sundays
    28th Feb 2019
    7:57pm
    Only SFR silly eneough to invest wholly in Australian shares just to get Franking credits. It’s a rort and every billion saved to reduce the debt the Liberals have amassed is a good thing. The smart SFR who have a diversified portfolio precisely to counter risk are doing just fine.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:36pm
    Sundays, you are clearly uneducated about finances, because Australian franked shares are currently the ONLY investment offering a decent return for those with very limited assets, unless they were lucky enough to get into direct property long before the boom.

    I have a diversified portfolio - as diversified as my limited assets reasonably allow. And you are DEAD WRONG in your leftist BS. Virtually every financial adviser in the nation is agreed that those with limited assets have no reasonable options to generate a decent income outside of having a significant % in franked Australian shares, so will be forced onto the pension. But keep on with your stinking personal abuse. You are really a very nasty individual.
    Sundays
    2nd Mar 2019
    12:07am
    You make me laugh. I have never seen such venom as in your posts yet somehow I am abusive because I dont support your view on franking credits or your insults regarding pensioners. I manage very well without a bulk of shares and will never be forced on the pension, must be because I am uneducated on finances. Lol
    BillF2
    28th Feb 2019
    12:15pm
    Generally speaking, the people who propose these ideas, whether politicians or commercial interests, are the ones who will never be affected by them. The question that has to be asked is 'what's in it for them?' These suggestions are never altruistic. Anybody interested in fairness in the pension system would design a better system, not tinker at the margins. This is just another case of senior bashing.
    Grazza
    28th Feb 2019
    3:38pm
    The only fair solution is to include the Full Value of Every Home in the the pension asset test. Then adjust the asset test so that some of us still receive a pension.
    OlderandWiser
    28th Feb 2019
    4:25pm
    The only fair solution is to abolish the assets test. Punishing people for being responsible and saving and investing is NOT a recipe for economic health. Pay everyone a pension and people will have an incentive to work and save. Keep up this meanness and our pension bill will keep going through the roof as people manipulate to stop the government stealing everything they worked for.
    Justsane
    28th Feb 2019
    4:55pm
    I was going to suggest that the Government increase the allowable asset difference between a homeowner & a non homeowner to about $500,000, or to the average house price across Australia- all by increasing the allowable assets of the non homeowner. Then everyone would be happy, I thought, and no-one would be compelled to sell their home in old age and move to the sticks, away from family and friends, and where there is no public transport, limited medical facilities at a time of life when they would most need it, and limited other services.

    But something tells me that it is better to set the asset difference at lower than the average cost of a house, which it is at now. This gives all pensioners a fair allowable asset before they lose part or full pension - and it is unlikely that non homeowners would have such great assets, anyway.

    I definitely do not think that that the value of the house that one lives in should ever be included in the assets test for the age pension or disability pension. A place to live where one feels comfortable is a basic human right, and, as others have said, a person may have bought a modest house years or decades ago which has increased in value. They should never be penalised for this. I also think that there should be a substantial increase in rent assistance. It has not at all kept up with real increases in rent.

    I disagree with the change to the taper rate, which knocked a lot of pensioners off the pension in 2017, though I agree with the increase in assets allowed at the lower end.
    bobbalinda
    28th Feb 2019
    5:18pm
    Why the hell would you shrimp and save and go without to have a home for your retirement when others who just spend their money on holidays and the good life and prefer to rent get extra assistance. I will sell my home, go cruising on the assets then go to govt for rental help there is no reason to work for my retirement, will join the government oughta group!
    ardnher
    1st Mar 2019
    2:20pm
    yep, that is the iodea bobbalinda!! I would do the same if younger but I do not want to live on the aged pension and be beholden to Centrelink!
    The Black Fox
    28th Feb 2019
    5:20pm
    I am not a NLP troll and am not trying to wind anybody up when saying that I agree that the family home should be included in the Pension Assets Test. I use my own circumstances as an example as to why I think this. My wife and I had a small house in country WA – worth about $300,000 on a good day.
    Our younger daughter qualified for university so had to go to the city and because she has CF we bought a small suburban unit for her to live in on a share basis – also worth $300,000 at the time but not paid off. She continued to need to live in the unit post a double lung transplant.
    The unit had to be sold because of the Assets Test changes - our assets have never reached a million dollars and we’re now reduced to a full pension while still trying to support our daughter as best we can. This would not be the case if the assets test was raised, as it would have been if the value of the family home was included in the mix.
    Before the critics start on me, we both have worked hard all our lives – we could have been richer but for 50 years of trying to help our three children live to their potential despite their ill health – another child with CF died at 25 after a failed transplant, which needed to be done interstate.
    Maybe you are the lucky ones, and good on you - but this issue needs rational discussion to ensure greater fairness.
    The Black Fox
    28th Feb 2019
    5:20pm
    I am not a NLP troll and am not trying to wind anybody up when saying that I agree that the family home should be included in the Pension Assets Test. I use my own circumstances as an example as to why I think this. My wife and I had a small house in country WA – worth about $300,000 on a good day.
    Our younger daughter qualified for university so had to go to the city and because she has CF we bought a small suburban unit for her to live in on a share basis – also worth $300,000 at the time but not paid off. She continued to need to live in the unit post a double lung transplant.
    The unit had to be sold because of the Assets Test changes - our assets have never reached a million dollars and we’re now reduced to a full pension while still trying to support our daughter as best we can. This would not be the case if the assets test was raised, as it would have been if the value of the family home was included in the mix.
    Before the critics start on me, we both have worked hard all our lives – we could have been richer but for 50 years of trying to help our three children live to their potential despite their ill health – another child with CF died at 25 after a failed transplant, which needed to be done interstate.
    Maybe you are the lucky ones, and good on you - but this issue needs rational discussion to ensure greater fairness.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:14pm
    I sympathise, The Black Fox. Personally, I think the problem is that there is an assets test. there never should have been. It punishes people for striving and saving, and it unfairly distorts the pension system so that people like you suffer. Those who are educationally disadvantaged and can't achieve high returns suffer. Manipulators who plunge all their money into expensive homes win hands down - at heavy cost to taxpayers. The assets test needs to be abolished. Ideally, a universal pension would be the best approach - as exists in nearly all other developed countries, but in the absence of that, test income only, including deemed income at a reasonable rate and INCLUDING deemed income on the family home -but with a very generous threshold.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:14pm
    I sympathise, The Black Fox. Personally, I think the problem is that there is an assets test. there never should have been. It punishes people for striving and saving, and it unfairly distorts the pension system so that people like you suffer. Those who are educationally disadvantaged and can't achieve high returns suffer. Manipulators who plunge all their money into expensive homes win hands down - at heavy cost to taxpayers. The assets test needs to be abolished. Ideally, a universal pension would be the best approach - as exists in nearly all other developed countries, but in the absence of that, test income only, including deemed income at a reasonable rate and INCLUDING deemed income on the family home -but with a very generous threshold.
    Mary
    28th Feb 2019
    6:50pm
    If an asset test comes in on my modest Sydney family home that I payed for after taxes on my income, I will be forced to move to a regional area.. such is life. I believe that there should be a threshold on how much rent assistance you should get while on oap a fair amount is nothing. If a couple renting on oap is struggling because they live in a high rental area like Sydney or Melbourne they should also be forced like me to move to a lower rental/housing market area and not complain. for example you can rent a 2 bed unit in Albury for less than 170 dollars a week.. This will leave enough for that couple on the oap to live reasonably well on. Yes I own my own home through hard work and paid for by after tax dollars with huge Sacrifices.. Stupid me! See you all in Albury
    Abe
    28th Feb 2019
    8:24pm
    Quote: "What would you say to a cap on the value of the family home? What dollar cap would you recommend? Or should the family home remain exempt from the means test?"

    If a family home is worth over $2m taking into account where the house is and allowing for appreciation, then there should be a cap.

    Why should I pay a bundle of tax so that very wealthy people can pass on their McMansions to their children?
    ardnher
    1st Mar 2019
    2:17pm
    totally agree!! I believe there should be a cap on homes dependent on where you live. Dont know if it would be too hard to administer or not though
    Manne
    1st Mar 2019
    10:15am
    I wish you people would stop going on about this. The more its talked about, the more likely it is to happen. For my opinion, leave it alone Politicians and Media lay off it.
    ardnher
    1st Mar 2019
    2:15pm
    When Labor get into power!!!! negative gearing will only be allowed on "new" properties not older ones for those who want to get into investing in the property market.

    It has been mentioned that this will raise rents because investors will leave the market so those pensioners renting will be in for a tough time ahead as rents will rise.

    Interesting times ahead!!
    pjvixen
    1st Mar 2019
    2:37pm
    The family home should be exempt. Homes bought years ago acquire value through no fault of the owners. They have paid increased rates on the value of the property, maintained it and should not be penalized for this. It is all very well to tell them to move and downsize, but then they will lose their familiar environment and local friends at a time when it is difficult to adjust to unwanted changes.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    6:46pm
    So should all other assets. In other words, there should be NO assets test. Why should people who DID downsize and invest be penalized continually? Why should those fortunate enough to have been able to buy a home that increased in value be able to hand it down to their heirs while those who struggled to pay off a more modest home in a less desirable location have to live off their investments until they are all gone? There is gross unfairness here, but it will NOT be fixed by attacking homeowner pensioners the way other pensioners and SFRs are being attacked.
    Misty
    1st Mar 2019
    7:26pm
    Labor has no plans to include the family home in the assets test, nor ask anyone to pay back their OAP when the die from whatever estate they leave. as OG suggests should happen, I was assured of this by Bill Shorten's office today.
    OlderandWiser
    1st Mar 2019
    7:33pm
    Surely nobody believes anything Bill Shorten's Office says? Not today. But tomorrow is another day. After the election, all bets are off. The scum have already shown how unfair and disgracefully they treat retirees. Don't fool yourself into thinking pensioners will always be the favoured elite.
    Misty
    1st Mar 2019
    7:49pm
    No one is suggesting that.
    Sundays
    2nd Mar 2019
    12:31am
    Come on Lorraine, on this site, on other sites, on Facebook, off Facebook. It never ends.
    Put your money in an Industry Fund, watch it grow, have a life.

    Labor is likely to win the election. They have been very upfront about their policies on negative gearing and Franking credits. No hidden agenda, unlike the Liberals.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    2nd Mar 2019
    3:40am
    Yes Sundays Labor has been up front with all their policies unlike the LNP that are a bunch of liers. But people like OGR just want to discredit everything that Labor puts forward.
    The ALP are the only ones that will benefit retirees unlike the LNP that will take everything that will nit benfit them or their rich mates.
    Banjo
    2nd Mar 2019
    10:38am
    So you finally see the light Lothario.

    For once you make sense.
    Misty
    2nd Mar 2019
    5:37pm
    Or is that the imposter posting here?.
    Aviator
    4th Mar 2019
    1:26am
    What do you mean Misty?
    Wake Up
    2nd Mar 2019
    7:25am
    Moral question, Why is it that those who invest in their homes & overseas travel with the rich & famous get a pat on the back by the Libs, Labor & chock spit the Greens but those who invest in their Superannuation get a kick in the Guts by the above. We are supposed to be the smart lucky country, appears just not in Canberra.
    Wake Up
    2nd Mar 2019
    11:27am
    Seems the IOC can't run a chook raffle down the Pub on a Friday night so they sell the Pub & attack the Senior Citizens saying we cost too much all the while having their snout stuck firmly in the trough
    Justsane
    2nd Mar 2019
    4:10pm
    Yes, I sympathise with you, Black Fox. Rules are rules, but they should be bendable in certain circumstances. You should never have been forced to sell your unit to stay on the full pension. I would have a talk with Centrelink, even now.
    Blinky
    3rd Mar 2019
    1:08pm
    It's a no-brainer. If u r getting a govt pension, u r not rich. If u managed to buy a house while u were still working, well done! Enjoy your well-earned nest.
    LEAVE PENSIONERS ALONE DONT PUSH THEM INTO A PENSIONER'S SLUM!!!
    If pollies get a pension n their houses r not included in their eligibility, the same rules should apply to all.
    Aviator
    4th Mar 2019
    1:25am
    I agree Blinky. Pensioners deserve better treatment, after all they worked damn hard.
    ice-cold
    3rd Mar 2019
    6:12pm
    No asset on Family Homes NO NO


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