Carbon pricing claims

Experts claim the Coalition Direct Action Plan is flawed.

Carbon pricing claims

A Senate estimates committee has been told that the Opposition’s soil carbon and revegetation projects would achieve little in the way of emission cuts by 2020, less than five per cent in fact. The estimates were delivered by Department of Climate Change official, Shayleen Thompson. The price the Coalition is offering to farmers to store carbon in their soil – between $8 -10 per tonne – is claimed to be too low to make a significant difference.

Michael Kiely, the co-convener of the Carbon Coalition, has claimed that the price offered to farmers for soil carbon abatement should ''start at $25 and head north'. The Labor Party is claiming that the Coalition's scheme would impose a tax impost of $720 a year on each Australian family, without compensation.

A spokesperson for the Shadow Minister for Climate Action, Environment and Heritage, Greg Hunt, has been reported as saying that the coalition rejects the criticism of the pricing of its scheme and that it had not stipulated a set allocation of such abatement in its Direct Action Policy.

Read a summary of the discussion at the Sydney Morning Herald website

Opinion: Carbon pricing – Leave well alone

Confused? I don’t blame you. The Senate estimates hearing on Monday saw a wide range of numbers being thrown around – so how is the ordinary man or woman in the street meant to know what is going on? Surely that’s when we turn to our scientists? But scientists don’t always agree and so the argy bargy over carbon pricing continues – and is likely to do so both before and after the September election.

I’m no scientist, but a couple of points stand out. Firstly, the introduction of the Labor Government’s Clean Energy Policy did not see the sky fall in, nor increased economic hardship for low wage earners or pension recipients. Most of us are slightly better off on a pure calculation. Yes, energy prices have shot up – but they did so well before the carbon impost, and the reasons for these increases have far more to do with state governments, privatisation and investment in infrastructure than any carbon taxing mechanism.

The second point matters more– and that is the drop in emissions already as a result of the introduction of the Clean Energy Bill last year. We have been environmental vandals for too many generations, and this is one small effective step in reducing atmospheric change.

So if the legislation is not broken, why would we fix it?

Pre-elections, many past Opposition leaders have huffed and puffed that they would reverse legislation and then quietly walked away if they got into power. We can only hope on the current carbon pricing Mr. Abbott, too, will leave well alone…

What do you think? Should the current carbon tax stay? Or should the Direct Action Policy replace it?





    COMMENTS

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    Maca1939
    29th May 2013
    11:12am
    Yes - why get rid of something when it works well and who knows the opposition is sure to bring in something not long after the next election and do we know if that will work NO
    Peterseaford
    29th May 2013
    11:25am
    The carbon tax is a good idea - some use it as a political football but it is essential and has had results.
    Tony and Joe say that we cannot make a change but because we are small is that a reason to neglect doing whats right.
    So many lies told about the effects on costs and not a person questions the mob who said the sky would fall
    Just my opinion - if it is right and it helps - do it
    peter
    Irishwolfhound
    29th May 2013
    12:52pm
    It seems a silly basic idea. We pay a tax so that big Industry can go on polluting the world . That seems a bit silly. Why not just stop big Industry from polluting in the first place? Oh yes the big business man will lose money!
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    1:02pm
    Peterseaford, a good size Volcano eruption can put more carbon into the atmosphere than the whole human race over a year. When Volcanos start paying their share, I will happy to pay mine. It is all so much B*lls**t. Recently it was quoted that somewhere had it's hottest day since 1896. That tells me there must have been more Carbon in the Atmosphere in 1886 than this year.
    MITZY
    29th May 2013
    4:07pm
    Young Simmo:
    I read that although the initial carbon dioxide in the atmosphere of the "Young Earth" was produced by volcanic activity, "Modern" volcanic activity releases only 130-230 megatonnes of carbon dioxide per year which is less than 1% of the amount released by "Human" activity which is approx. 29 gigatonnes per year.
    Also in the "pre"-industrial era these fluxes were largely balanced, but currently about 57% of human emitted carbon dioxide is removed by the biosphere and oceans. So I guess we are breathing in the other 43%.
    Burning fossil fuels such as coal and petroleum is the leading cause of increased carbon dioxide and deforrestation runs second. From 1751 to 1900, 12 gigatonnes was emitted. From 1901 to 2008, 334 gigatonnes was emitted.
    This addition as of 1997 is sufficient to exceed the balancing effect of the "sinks". As a result, carbon dioxide has gradually accumulated in the atmosphere and as of 2009, its concentration is 39% ABOVE pre-industrial levels.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    4:14pm
    http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/global.html
    Precious
    29th May 2013
    10:45pm
    Love the fish...and thats all I`m saying lolololol
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    10:49pm
    Yes, I asked if it was an Australian Salmon but didn't get an answer.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    10:51pm
    plastic salmon ?
    congress@bayside
    29th May 2013
    11:29am
    We must not forget that Labors carbon tax was introduced by deceit and subterfuge. We are totally out of step with the rest of the world and I support the scrapping, or at least a reduction in the tax, as a matter of priority. We need to hold the Liberals to their promise regarding this impost on the Australian people.
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:25pm
    it was a bill, put forward and debated and it has been put into practice. Get off with ya conspiracy theory. It is democracy at work for the people.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    9:31pm
    How is it democracy if you put up a position. Before an election get elected on that position then change it after the election

    There will be no carbon tax under a govt I lead
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    9:46pm
    ALP democracy = federal controlled union demonizing of a rapidly diminishing workforce that wonders where the f......k the jobs went ?
    AmandaR
    30th May 2013
    12:40am
    Pete, if you are going to quote Gillard, quote in full and not the Murdoch press version. She said "there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead, but there will be a price on carbon"

    Low and behold, there is a price on carbon. Officially, it is not a tax and I believe Gillard does not refer to it as a tax. If anyone can point me to an official government list of taxes and the price on carbon appears on that list as tax, I will be more than happy to stand corrected.
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    12:55am
    I was quite correct check out the Sydney. Morning herald sept 11 2010
    SMH not news group but is ABC/ Fairfax green cafe latte group

    Besides which people do not pay semantics
    AmandaR
    30th May 2013
    1:40am
    You call it semantics, I call it a misquote. Regardless of whether it comes from the ABC, Fairfax, Murdoch, Abbott, the Greens... they are wrong. They have quoted her incorrectly since the day she said it and none have done anything to correct their error. I guess selective reporting is more appealing to lazy, sensationalist reporters looking for a cheap shot and a tagline.
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    8:38am
    I have pointed you to the reporting of what she said
    Perhaps you could point me to the reporting of your version
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    8:53am
    Sorry Aug 12 2010 SMH
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    10:11pm
    I don't think attacking journalist for reporting when a politician blatantly lies ,
    For which may I add she has apologized for as ircumstances changed, is at all adding to your argument .
    I still await the reporting of your version
    student
    31st May 2013
    2:47pm
    Pete ... oh Pete! Amanda is right :) What PM Gillard says and what reporters and their chief editor report she says, are two different things!!
    " ... I don't think attacking journalist for reporting when a politician blatantly lies ... "

    Oh dear, what came first the chicken or the egg?? The egg .... The only lie is the reporting of what the PM said.

    Amanda 1
    Pete 0
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    2:55pm
    Well I have given you a report on what she said
    You have not given me a report of your version
    AmandaR
    2nd Jun 2013
    1:21pm
    Here is the interview in which Gillard made the Labor Party's position very, very clear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EyW7oFk6n8
    sensible senior
    3rd Jun 2013
    4:29pm
    Amanada R i watched youtube on a interview with channel 9 in brisbane and what she intimated was that she considered renewables and said that their would be no carbon tax under the government i lead but that she would put a cap on carbon also i thought that the climate change policy was that of kevin rudds.I do not believe that we are the big poluters of carbon or cows etc i believe it comes from under the sea also volanco erruptions.
    aquatrek
    3rd Jun 2013
    4:50pm
    SS: "i believe it comes from under the sea" ??????????????????
    if you are correct then everyone else is 'wrong'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sink#Oceans
    BundyGil
    29th May 2013
    12:07pm
    Yes, the coalition should leave well enough alone, but they won't.

    The direct action plan is fatally flawed and will not do anything about carbon reduction but will cost an absolute bomb for no result except make big corporations richer.
    That's normal for the coalition. Silly Australian voters can't seem to understand that the coalition has absolutely no interest in looking after ordinary Australians, despite their lip service, they just look after their mates in the big end of town.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    9:26pm
    At the moment the check out chick who wants to stay home and look after her baby is asked by labor to drop down to the minimum wage and can stay home for three months
    St tony says she should stay on her full pay and be with her baby for six months
    Tony is forcing the big end of town to pay for this

    Oh and also labor has just reduced the amount it pays single mothers

    Also the family payments were brought in by John Howard's givt just reduced by labor
    But as you say they just look after their mates you do mean labor with their union mates eh 13 per cent of workers belong and yet 100 per cent of labor mps strange
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    9:32pm
    oh my gawd - a faith believer in rusted on nuts - the very worst kind !! "fatally flawed" you say - fatally usually means a bit of death type dying somewhere close by - it wouldnt be the Creans and the Fergusons getting off the rusty hulk before it goes down for maybe good ?
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    9:34pm
    the rusted hulk still has the good capitan Juliar standing firm at the helm as the Vic police fraud investigation wave breaks over the rusty hulks bows !!
    Cassius
    29th May 2013
    12:09pm
    Scrap the bloody thing altogether our emissions are a pimple on an elephants bum compared to other countries particularly when you consider population density.
    niemakawa
    29th May 2013
    4:32pm
    Cassisus, I have to agree with your comments. I may add that it is not the population density that worries me but more so the dense population.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    9:15pm
    Love it maccas
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    9:28pm
    at the very least about 30% are as dense as rusted on ferric nuts [Fe2O3.nH2O(s)]
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    9:36pm
    I don't understand where those odd balls are the labor vote in NSW was 20 per cent
    In Queensland it was two people in a phone box
    They must be all in ACT
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    9:41pm
    or hiding in the vast forests of Tassie with the last few remaining Greenies who went into hiding with Bob.
    student
    31st May 2013
    2:53pm
    nope aqua, remember Little Johnny bought the souls of the loggers and saw millers a few years back. Poor Bob Brown has retired and there is no direction there now.
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    3:13pm
    Yep all honest johns fault.
    Please come back John all is forgiven oops nothing to forgive. Maybe family tax benefits .and baby bonus and making the Rudds millionaires.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    12:38pm
    OK can anybody tell me what our 23,000,000 Aussies pay per head on average. Then tell me what the other 7 Billion people around the world pay per head. I feel confident the millions of slave labour people in Bangladesh etc, etc earning 60 cents per day don't pay $5 per day, week or year.
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:27pm
    this is just crazy thinking. We are the ones doing the polluting. We need to consume less carbon. Can you understand that vital point. If you stopped consuming so much you wouldnt be paying it.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    4:52pm
    doclisa are you saying our 23 million people are doing more damage than the 3 Billion Chinese and 2 Billion Indians? If so please enlighten me with your source of information. All you Gillard lovers are blind.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    4:56pm
    Young Simmo: pls give them some credit as they can see the keyboard to type so they must be just one-eyed rusted on nutjobs.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:00pm
    ps - and its very unfair of you to ask direct straightforward questions that require an intelligent statistics response that can be backed up with reliable sourced information. I must recommend you to the Love the ALP Rehabilitation program because come Sept they will be all alone out there in the political wilderness looking for bits of carbon to market.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    5:05pm
    aquatrek, I will give them credit when I see something that rates a bit of credit. However I expect to be dead somewhere in the next 24 hrs to 24 years so there is no way it will happen in my lifetime. If they want some carbon, my BBQ is full of it and I would welcome somebody to come and clean it for me.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:12pm
    ask for a carbon credit 1st but then what will you do with it - leave it on the steps of parliament ?
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    5:18pm
    No aquatrek, I will use it to buy another stick of wood for my BBQ.
    Irishwolfhound
    29th May 2013
    12:47pm
    If a carbon tax of. in some cases as low as 5 cents, works for other countries , why is Australia s so high?? -Because this Government is wasting our money as if it were going out of fashion. We use up more carbon in producing animals for food that all the cars, planes buses etc. put together! It is a useless tax, set up to put more money in the fading coffers of this hopeless Labor Government.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    12:55pm
    Spot on Irishwolfhound, trouble is we can see that side of things, but our Millionaire Politicians are too dumb and stupid to see it.
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:28pm
    no tax is useless. YOu are twp grumpy o;d men. Get a grip. Australia is doing better during the GFC than any other country. Stop whinging and get some perspective.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    4:55pm
    Irishwolfhound, I suspect that doclisa was kept in after school today, and that would explain his hysterical rantings.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:08pm
    and that is where the Juliar bunch couldnt even get that right - despite being advised not to put such a high price on it they went ahead with their own brand of wisdom called stupidity - virtually no extra income from the carbon tax and so the piggy bank is emptier than a nuns habit.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    5:14pm
    doclisa would indicate to me that you could be Doctor Lisa, if so my next question is what colour is your hair? Cheers, Grumpy and Grumpier.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    6:06pm
    It is not a matter of a tax being useless it is what a govt does with our money
    And on that score this o e is useless
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    6:06pm
    It is not a matter of a tax being useless it is what a govt does with our money
    And on that score this o e is useless
    Irishwolfhound
    30th May 2013
    2:36am
    doclisa I am very upset with you! I am often grumpy - but why would you assume I am a man, and an old one at that! LOL !?????
    student
    31st May 2013
    2:59pm
    GO doclisa!!! You go girlfriend :) (I presume you are a girl??:) 'cause you are :) :)
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    3:03pm
    Little early to be on the grog studders
    Young Simmo
    31st May 2013
    3:11pm
    doclisa, if you give us your postal address we will all dob in and send you some black hair die, so you have a bit of a chance of hiding. I remember about 50 years ago I heard a blond say something sensible but I forgot to make note of it. Ouch, I am out of here.
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    3:33pm
    Now that's blondophobic and you could be prosecuted under 18c
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:22am
    hey Pete, I don't drink or do drugs .... I get high on life :)

    Young Simmo, your last post was a 'no-no' . Attack the post not the person. Your post tells me doclisa has you wrapped up like a parcel :) GO 'lisa!
    Oldie87
    29th May 2013
    12:58pm
    The whole emission debate is pointless when you consider that in a lot of ways the opposite is done. Control it by legislation. There is no point having a tax that is then passed on to the customers and then the higher prices are compensated by Government who collect the tax in the first place. We assist the car industry to build ever more cars. There so many examples to show that we are not really serious about the whole thing, wether its car races, farmers burning paddocks, wind farms etc etc.
    Until people and countries get serious and honest in dealing with the perceived threats we might as well leave it to our grand children to fix the mess.
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:28am
    Oldie, I agree with your sentiments, however, where there is profit involved, the wheels of reform turn slowly. Until ignorance is out the door, common sense will never prevail.
    Big picture
    29th May 2013
    1:00pm
    No way. The whole carbon pricing thing is a fiasco that is only value by people in the money market. The photos you show are not smoke. The chimneys on modern power stations emit steam - that's water vapour so this photo is very misleading. Most people don't realise that there is only .004 % of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. It is a trace gas and, anyhow, it has been shown time and again that the world flourishes in a higher carbon environment. What do you think they use in green houses to get better plant growth?
    MITZY
    29th May 2013
    5:17pm
    Big Picture:
    The big picture is that we haven't got too many of those "modern" power stations. One or two are gradually being put in mothballs but them and deforrestation are the main culprits.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    6:03pm
    So let's take direct action and switch to gas whilst we build nuclear
    Or put giant mirrors in space at just the right point to shield the earth and generate solar energy and microwave to earth
    Better than buying hot air credits from overseas traders?
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    6:11pm
    the stacks are the usual scaremongering tactics used by journalists
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:30am
    nuclear?? OMG.....
    Anonymous
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:45am
    Yes nuclear the safest and greenest available but because of green/socialists delays
    We should be using gas as an interim
    From nuclear power accidents 50 people have died all as a result of Chernoble of Jerry built by communists .
    What is your objection to nuclear student?
    legin
    29th May 2013
    1:06pm
    It needs to be left alone and given time to find its own level, there is and will be more countries on board.
    Western countries need a carbon tax for our children and lead the way for developing countries.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    6:16pm
    hallo hallo - another of the Dad's Army brigade - developing countries mean those that are hell bent on having what the western style democracies have [at all costs] - China and India to start with. Lead the way ? what are we - Boy Scouts ? and the developing countries are babes lost in the forest - oops thats where they are chopping down the trees as fast as they can - duh.
    student
    31st May 2013
    3:07pm
    I agree legin. And aqua, who invests in developing countries (including China)?? ... why the West of course :)
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    3:38pm
    Yeah those terrible westeners putting capital into the third world
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:38am
    oh Pete,do you see the capital invested in Third World countries benefiting the majority of the people?? Look at the recent building collapse in Bangladesh .. they were making clothes (cheap clothes)for the Western markets. We benefit from slave labour and force democracy upon them. Gimme a break. To use your words, yes we are "... those terrible westeners ...".
    Anonymous
    2nd Jun 2013
    9:05am
    This weeks Economist Front page " one billion brought out of poverty " how was that done studders where did the capital come from for the factories infrastructure etc
    You and me mainly from pension funds invested in western companies
    student
    3rd Jun 2013
    5:47pm
    one billion bought out of poverty?? I doubt that figure and I doubt there are many workers living a life NOT in poverty still. Of course the money for cheap and unsafe working conditions comes from the West. I sure as h** do not benefit from slave labour. It's the few who can afford the capital (machinery etc), who have a higher life style, not the workers. I ask you to look at any Third World country.

    I'll check out the Economist's front page. You may be quoting it correctly but I truly doubt the figures are true.
    aquatrek
    3rd Jun 2013
    6:03pm
    student: anyone with a high enough ladder can go around 'cherry picking' any of the 'fruit' so we all know that there really are countries that dont have the same standards as in Oz or as in the other 'developed' western democracies - equally those countries are all over the planet; Africa, Central & Sth Americas, Asia etc Yet counties like India are starting to have an internal impact upon there own industries [Tata: http://www.tatamotors.com/investors/investors.php - Jaguar/Land Rover] and will have an export impact because of the lower costs. Given time they will 'catch up'. So your point re 'investment' is a CHERRY - mind you dont fall of that ladder now. It must be that radical - "we can fix everything right now by throwing squillions of dollars at it" ALP flawed mentality.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    1:23pm
    Journalism is what is sick - not the world per se.
    1) The topic 'promo' stated "Kaye believes that the current carbon pricing model is working well and should remain." Hmmmmm what model - if you have it available then share it or ............ ?
    2) "Most of us are slightly better off on a pure calculation." - what calculation ?
    3) " the drop in emissions already as a result of the introduction of the Clean Energy Bill last year." hmmmm what stats are these ?

    You see I am a scientist [not a very good one] but the whole world has been 'fooled' by global warming scaremongering, especially with regard to CO2. The main culprit is methane. " It has a high global warming potential: 72 times that of carbon dioxide over 20 years, and 25 times over 100 years,and the levels are rising." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane

    So 1st stop eating farmed critters.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    1:57pm
    no wait - charge each farm critter a methane tax and humans as well. That might reduce a lot of unnecessary 'hot air'.
    student
    31st May 2013
    3:09pm
    1/10 for your first post but 10/10 for your second :) Very funny :)
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    3:36pm
    Yeah you tell him where he is wrong studders
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:42am
    yep, aqua is correct. Sorry, please accept my apology aqua, "... I am a scientist [not a very good one] ... " you're right there baby :)
    rayn
    29th May 2013
    1:28pm
    Agreed, the carbon tax seems to have had minimal effect on the cost of living, so why not keep it and divert the tax received to extending and increasing the solar power installation rebates, this would also reduce electricity use and also assist consumers to reduce their costs.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    11:42pm
    Because it is a reverse robin hood you are robbing the poor to give to the rich
    Watto
    29th May 2013
    1:29pm
    It's working ??????????? What is it doing ,apart from increasing costs ?????
    Kaye, you obviously know something that most of us don't .
    Of course it should be scrapped , it was Gillard's BIGGEST lie ,.....the rest are ppretty close !
    student
    31st May 2013
    3:11pm
    oh dear oh dear oh dear ...
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    3:30pm
    Hi Watto she tells so many , but this one was particularly blatant.
    niemakawa
    29th May 2013
    1:34pm
    NO CARBON TAX. Abbott will do all he can to repeal it. Yes I expect there will be some difficulty in achieving his intention, but nonetheless , he will win the day.
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:29pm
    with a bit of luck for our country he will never get the chance. he is a thug!
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    5:37pm
    St tony will be the most educated and intellectual Prime Minister the country has ever had st bob being a good runner up
    UNCLE FESTER
    29th May 2013
    6:57pm
    I don't suppose doclisa has had any personal experience of Tony Abbot as it seems most of her comments are based on hearsay. I have had dealing with him and he will be a very good PM.
    MITZY
    30th May 2013
    4:50pm
    TornadoTony, the pugilist might be educated and intellectual but sometimes we need common sense too. I've met him a couple of times when he was Health Minister in the Howard Government. Wasn't overly impressed with his Gardasil comments and abortion pill. Howard had to keep him in check. I don't know if any of us can say he will be a very good PM we don't have a crystal ball to predict his future or anybody else's.
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    4:57pm
    I think that I note the removal of my post opposing the doclisa 'thug' comment - it would seem that there is a 'selective' approach to what one can say - that Juliar Gillard was the girlfriend of a union thug - one Bruce Wilson is a fact. Remove it again.
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    5:08pm
    If you must go back to discussing St Tony when he was a boxing blue at Oxford it would be only fair to discuss Julia when she was a communist at Uni
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    5:13pm
    Juliar Gillard was more than just an everyday common garden communist - she instigated a radical subversive communist party spin off aimed at derailing the common everyday garden party ALP !!
    Fact.
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    5:21pm
    Regarding Julia's involvement in the AWU scandal it was reported in the papers a few days ago that this is an active ongoing investigation with BenFordham being interviewed regarding an interview given by Julia
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    5:29pm
    http://www.news.com.au/national-news/julia-gillard-denies-radio-host-ben-fordhams-claims-she-was-being-investigated-by-police-over-the-awu-slush-fund-affair/story-fncynjr2-1226627316095
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    10:15pm
    Aquas are u for us or agin us no one can type in your ref and the headline looks misleading
    student
    31st May 2013
    3:15pm
    oh aqua, get over it. You had a post removed .. that's more than I have achieved. Get over it.

    And get over the lie that PM Gillard has any legal case to answer.
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    3:28pm
    Student you have a duty to go to the police with that information as they are wasting tax payers money.
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:45am
    what police Pete??
    Anonymous
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:49am
    The Victorian police who have a current investigation .
    ghoti
    29th May 2013
    1:47pm
    congress@bayside says: "We must not forget that Labors carbon tax was introduced by deceit and subterfuge." It was not. A promise was made on the assumption that the government Ms Gillard would lead would be a majority government, not a coalition. In managing a coalition, deals have to be made. That's politics. There was no deceit intended, which is an essential element for a statement to be a lie. Abbott and his echo chamber know this, but they keep repeating the lie that Ms Gillard lied. Boot on the other foot. Abbott himself tells us not to believe him when he says things that have not been scripted. Howard had core promises and non-core promises (lies). Labor's nose might not be totally clean in this regard, but it's a lot cleaner than the LNP's.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    1:56pm
    ghoti, you have the right tag now read my lips, "There will not be a Carbon Tax under any Government I lead". Pretty simple really, I assume you are an adult, and I can not understand why you don't catch on when a 6 year old can.
    ghoti
    29th May 2013
    2:58pm
    Young Simmo: my dictionary defines a lie as "an intentionally false statement". I don't believe that Gillard's statement was intentionally false and was therefore not a lie. Any six-year-old would understand the difference. In negotiations after the last election, Abbott promised the independents a price on carbon or an ETS if they were to side with him - he can hardly object to Gillard doing the same thing. In 2010 Abbott lied by saying "the ETS is already adding $300 to power bills here in New South Wales" when the LNP had defeated the ETS in the Senate in 2009. In 2012 Abbott tweeted "Pleased to see research on the positive impacts of Gardasil being on the PBS; a decision I made as health minister" when in fact he had opposed it. Then there's Abbott's appearance on the ABC's 7.30 Report with Leigh Sales in August last year, when he blamed the Carbon and Mining taxes as being the cause of BHP's decision to place the Olympic Dam project on hold despite BHP having said they had nothing to do with it. In February last year he lied by attributing Alcoa’s decision to review the viability of its Point Henry aluminum smelter to the carbon tax, although the MD of Alcoa had specifically said that the carbon tax was not a factor. He told lie after lie about the Home Insulation Program. The list goes on. In other words, Abbott's lies are legion, but Gillard is pilloried relentlessly (even called "Juliar") for one alleged lie that almost certainly wasn't.
    ghoti
    29th May 2013
    3:10pm
    If you can't address the point I made, Young Simmo, why waste your and everyone else's time responding?
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    4:46pm
    ghoti, If you want to write 24 lines of Twiddle Twaddle to try and hide the truth, I suppose I should leave you in you own little world of make believe.
    JJ
    29th May 2013
    5:36pm
    If you are going to produce that quote from JG, then please reproduce the WHOLE quote, not just a piece of it! I wish I could give it to you word for word, but I will try to find it. It speaks volumes to anyone who is prepared to listen.
    MITZY
    29th May 2013
    5:58pm
    Young Simmo:
    Ghoti has valid points and truths above. About Abbott "tweeting" pleased to see research on the positive impacts of Gardasil being on the PBS I am unaware, I'm not into "tweets", but I do remember in the Australian newspaper a few years ago that Abbott was laid to rest by John Howard about his invalid remarks regarding Gardasil. The Australian indicated that Howard (being the astute politician and realising Abbott was causing a huge blow-up) did within 24 hours of Abbotts rantings put paid to his dangerous remarks and Howard then set the wheels in motion to bring Gardasil onto the PBS twelve months earlier than originally proposed. The morning after pill was another Abbott rant. He has and will continue to put his foot in his mouth and it's difficult to balance on one foot.

    However, regarding the carbon tax etc. etc. did anyone click on the Sydney Morning Herald article at the foot of Kaye Fallick's commentary above headed: "Experts doubt Coalition's carbon plan". If, as the Coalition believes, we don't have carbon problems and climate change problems etc and it's all a myth, then why do they have a DIRECT ACTION PLAN?
    The soil/carbon plan of the Coalition is not allowed under International Rules and cannot be counted towards Australia's target of 5% reduction in emissions by 2020 says the Labor government.
    The Coalition's scheme of $8 to $10 per tonne would add $720 p.a. to every family without any compensation factored as yet.
    Michael Keily Co-Convenor of the Carbon Coalition says the Libs scheme should start at $25 per tonne and head North.... If this came to fruition the levy on families would be more than $1550 p.a.

    Emissions are reducing, so something is working, leave well enough alone.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    6:07pm
    got any sources with facts'n'figures to back yours and Kayes declarations up [I queried hers but no response as usual] or is it all just 'hot air' blah blah blah ?
    AmandaR
    30th May 2013
    1:18am
    Good point Egyptian. Why does the coalition have the direct action plan if carbon emissions are not an issue?

    This is an interesting read http://theconversation.com/will-the-oppositions-direct-action-plan-work-12309
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    8:31am
    I fully agree with Amanda the labor party should not have their market plan
    And the lib/Nats should not have direct action.
    Jurassicgeek
    29th May 2013
    2:09pm
    Just another tax to pay!...on top of everything else....
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:31pm
    you are a sad little soul arnt you. taxes yaxes...gee..a democracy and shared responsibility....shall we just leave you in a quiet dark room...
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    11:18pm
    You are right Jurassicgee
    Don't worry these socialist bullies will be as dead " as a dead dingos donga" come September
    maxchugg
    29th May 2013
    2:11pm
    The carbon tax is part of the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme. But Carbon is not a pollutant, it's an essential ingredient for plant growth. When the amount of carbon in the atmosphere increases, plants grow faster and use up the additional carbon in what used to be known as the balance of nature.
    If we want to effectively reduce the amount of carbon in the atmosphere then we need to shut down all the volcanoes. The one in Iceland in four days negated all the efforts of all the carbon pollution reduction schemes. A few years ago Mt Pinatubo emitted more greenhouse gases than have been created by the entire human race.
    And do the promoters of carbon taxes really believe their own propaganda? In recent times Al Gore and Kevin Rudd are both reported to purchased multi million dollar properties which stand at seal level. Why would they do that if global warming will make the oceans rise?
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    2:31pm
    tut tut maxchugg: there is a potential for the oceans to rise as far as they have ever done in the past - if this interglacial period keeps warming and then if all of the ice sheets and glaciers melted then try about 80 m higher than at present.
    Gore and Rudd will be stardust way long before that happens so go ahead - rush out and buy that coral atoll that you have fancied for awhile.. ..... and invite me when the beachside 6 star cabana with 24/7 dusky maiden service is ready
    http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs2-00/
    JA
    29th May 2013
    2:17pm
    How can anyone believe anything this disfuncional government says anymore!!!! Good ridance soon to the whole lot of them and they can take their carbon tax with them etc etc....
    jual
    29th May 2013
    2:27pm
    This is the best thing any Politician has done for years, the health of our children in years to come, will benefit from this. (Jual1933)
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    2:39pm
    really ? really really ? really really really ? rubbish methinks
    lwcarden
    29th May 2013
    2:37pm
    The figures may say that costs have not gone up (yet) but that is a furphy - there have been some enormous increases which have ensured that things are escalating price wise very quickly - wait until the end of the year and see what happens!!! Bring on the election and get rid of Julia!! Please!!
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:35pm
    prices always go up. Tis the nature of the beast.
    Hopefully we will see sense and hold onto the best economic managers we have had. We could be in the state of many foriegn countries that have fallen appart over the GFC. We have some issues but nowhere near as bad as the rest of the world. Abbott is hopeing to turn that around and bring on an austeruty budget using estonia as a model. note during the hieght of GFC they had 27 per cent unemployment. We had 4 percent...suck it up.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    5:45pm
    The best economic managers you should go on the stage..
    Estonia was converting from a communist economy to a free enterprise one
    And has done so successfully it decided unlike the countries of southern Europe or us under Red Gillard to live within their means.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:50pm
    note the very short acknowledgement of the stuffup made by Juliar, Swanee River is a Flowing and Two Wongs dont make a Wight - "We have some issues " - yep, the ALP sure do - like credibility for a start.
    AmandaR
    30th May 2013
    2:09am
    "50,100 jobs were added in April, with 34,500 full-time positions and 15,600 part-time jobs created." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-09/abs-employment-figures-april/4679182

    Not bad considering we are going to hell in a hand basket as all the naysayers keep telling us.

    Come on guys, chin up. It's not all doom and gloom.
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    8:28am
    No things are really good and will be even better after September
    ricks12
    29th May 2013
    2:45pm
    Admittedly we only got there because the Greens in coalition forced spineless politicians to take direct action. Rudd ("the moral equivalent of war") whimped it! Gillard would also have whimped it if not for the Greens and independents. In my opinion there's no more rational way to base a personal stance on where the world's climate is going than to follow what the majority scientific viewpoint is, as summarised in brief, readily accessible, scientific literature, verifiable and readable by laypersons. That excludes; political comment, almost all media articles unless they cite reputable source that the reader can independently verify, and Lord Monkton. The vast majority of climate scientists who publish in *peer reviewed literature* (in contrast to opinion articles) are unequivocal - the world needs to try and do something now. We've seen naysayers regularly oppose something because their vested interests are threatened (eg climate change, Murray-Darling Basin regeneration, food labelling, gambling reform, junk food, tobacco, alcohol reform etc etc). How much better society would look if led by a political party that actually led for the longterm benefit of Australian society! Society must switch from a fossil-fuel-based economy anyway because the end of the era of inexpensive, accessible fossil fuel looms. Why not continue the transition to renewables while supporting research into other promising but more remote alternatives (such as fusion; not "clean coal") now and spread the growing cost over greater time while, hopefully, helping to slow climate change and helping future generations. Whatever we do now is highly unlikely to be noticeable in the time frame that readers of YourLifeChoices will notice but I want to continue trying. I'll continue to support parties that at least try to steer society towards a possible better future even though it's not directly in politicians own immediate short-term interests.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    3:00pm
    The 'concensus' is that the worlds climate is changing due to it being in a global interglacial phase. There is not a soul, nor human, nor prophet on the planet that can tell how long for or how warm it will get or if it will dip back toward glaciation yet again. The other 'concensus' is that the green house gases; CO2 & methane are on a dramatic rise.

    Water vapour is a lag component and is inexorably connected to the hemispheric oceanic heat exchange systems. That humans have contributed to the CO2 rise is also in agreement but it will be a cupla hundred years at least before modelling will get that right.

    The developing nations like China and India will NOT slow down their emissions. Even if every nation on the planet stopped emitting greenhouse gases tomorrow it would take hundreds of years for the effect to be noticed. So a carbon tax now is just a political football folly. A much more sensible spend would be to put solar cells on every surface available. That would reduce the unit cost enormously and also reduce the demand upon electricity.
    kriskris
    29th May 2013
    2:51pm
    Yes, I do believe it is best that the carbon tax remains so those people who already have prepared themselves for investment in clean energy in various form can go ahead. This will create jobs and benefit everyone. There is absolutely no need to wait with something as important as that. We must plan for the future.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    11:14pm
    Oh dear aquas I think I found one
    Kriskris you will still vote labor no matter what I really do not know what to say
    After all the corruption and lies and backstabbing and destroying decent men like Martin ferguson, after the billions in wasted public funds. After the uneccessary destruction of many of our industries.
    You stand there a lonely soul " like a candle in the wind"
    AmandaR
    30th May 2013
    2:30am
    You are quite right kriskris, we must plan for alternate energies. Environmental issues aside (and i believe the environmental impact is huge), fossil fuels are not an infinite resource.
    Anonymous
    4th Jun 2013
    9:03pm
    Solar is not an infinite resource
    Anonymous
    4th Jun 2013
    9:12pm
    Maybe nuclear fusion is
    aquatrek
    4th Jun 2013
    10:15pm
    such farsighted foresight - you should be President
    Anonymous
    4th Jun 2013
    11:36pm
    Or King Maybe I could succeed Elizabeth the first of Australia
    Anonymous
    4th Jun 2013
    11:38pm
    Can you have farsighted foresight
    aquatrek
    5th Jun 2013
    10:10am
    why question your super powers providing that you only use them for the good of all
    LawrieA
    29th May 2013
    3:01pm
    The preceding conversation affirms that none of us understand this fantasy dreamed up by who-knows-who, beaten up by the media(journalists???) to sell ads, measured by who, how, what. I think I'll just go fishing and not panic when the tide ebbs and flows, and enjoy nature...
    Oldie87
    29th May 2013
    3:31pm
    Good on you , Lawrie. Enjoy.
    Precious
    29th May 2013
    10:48pm
    Yep tend to agree....why cannot people just be happy and enjoy what we got left......................
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    10:55pm
    Yeah good on ya mate come sept we will all wake up and say what a horrible dream
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    10:55pm
    Yeah good on ya mate come sept we will all wake up and say what a horrible dream

    29th May 2013
    3:11pm
    Why send billions overseas to buy carbon credits
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:32pm
    what the????
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    5:24pm
    The labor party strangely is promoting market action instead of direct action
    This means that people emitting co2 can buy credits from overseas to meet their targets.
    Who are selling these credits well the same guys that brought you the GFC they now have a new product " hot air "
    Do you think this is open to abuse absolutely check out what's happened to traders in carbon credits in Europe
    So Australia will spend billions overseas to allow Co2 emitters to keep emitting
    Crazy heh
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:44pm
    probably all in Bitcoin

    29th May 2013
    3:42pm
    Why buy back electricity from those with solar at artificially high prices which is paid for by the rest of us in higher electricity prices
    ghoti
    29th May 2013
    3:45pm
    Because the government made a deal. If it hadn't then a lot of people would not have invested in solar panels. Should the government renege?
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    3:55pm
    The installation of solar panels was subsidized by the tax payers to the extent that I was offered on two occasions a no cost installation
    And on top of that we buy back electricity at high cost so for these privileged smarties they have low or free electricity
    In the meantime some pensioners are freezing cold as they cannot afford the artificial high prices of electricity
    Isn't this direct action
    ghoti
    29th May 2013
    4:17pm
    Offered a no cost installation? Did you take it??? You'd be a mug not to, I reckon. You must be a "privileged smarty", then - right? Why didn't the freezing cold pensioners take up the offer? How come I wasn't offered a no cost installation? Not fair! It's gunna be years before I've paid off my investment in solar panels.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    4:23pm
    Because my roof doesnt allow it
    Your investment is how it should be
    You invest and decide the return why should I subsidies it

    29th May 2013
    3:49pm
    Isn't tax payers paying for insulation direct action
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    5:29pm
    The Americans have reduced their co2 emissions by 5 per cent in two years
    How by switching to gas meanwhile we are running out of gas for domestic consumption cos we export it all
    Stupid eh
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    5:30pm
    Maybe we need some direct action here

    29th May 2013
    3:58pm
    Why are we forcing electricity companies to buy at high prices from renewables to reach an 20 per cent renewables target which for es up the price once again
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    3:59pm
    Isn't this direct action
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    4:44pm
    Why spend tax payers money on Subsiding Toyota for technology they already had to build cars that nobody wants except the taxi industry
    Isn't this direct action
    carmencita
    29th May 2013
    4:13pm
    Carbon pricing has been used by utility companies as an excuse to increase prices in electricity and gas. Not just in actual usage but also in supply charges. It is confusing, we try to reduce usage because we can no longer afford to pay for utility bills but have to use such because there is no alternative. However no matter how we reduce our usage our bill is steadily increasing because the supply charge (which we have no control) continues to increase. The price of actual usage and supply charge have continued to increase every quarter and will continue to be so since the industry have been deregulated in January this year. This is a bad move by the state govt. Deregulation is a licence to push prices up for more profit as what happened to the deregulation of financial institution.
    doclisa
    29th May 2013
    4:39pm
    would have been better if the stae's had not sold the stuff off. and instead of howard investing in 'clean coal' investing in renewables. Then we might have improved our standing in this area.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    10:03pm
    Well as coal is the main generator of electricity in the world and will be so for the foreseeable future don't you think clean coal is a good idea or would you rather chase windmills doclisa
    I won't bother replying to sister carmencita as she is obviously a confused person
    wally
    29th May 2013
    5:12pm
    The discussion I have seen so far revolves around some sort of moral crusade (making the world safe for future generations) and how the high carbon tax is some how good for us. Moreover, we should be grateful for Kevin, Julia, Dr. Giteau and Dr. Tim Flannery for their part in bringing the tax to fruition.
    Where were Drs. Giteau and Flannery while theSenate inquiry was going on? Their views would be interesting, to say the least. Were they increasing their carbon foot prints attending some sort of climate summit in Norway,instead of convincing us of how right their climate predictions might be? Anyway a lady from the Department of Climate Change said the Carbon tax is wonderful. I doubt if she would say anything else, if she wants to stay employed (until September). The co-convener of the Carbon Coalition, Michael Kiely thinks that the carbon tax should be raised in the future. Kaye tells us that the low income people and pensioners have not been hurt that much by the carbon tax due to compensation from the government. True, or not, in 2016 there will be more low income families living in Geelong and Broadmeadow in Victoria that will qualify for the compensation offered by the government. I guess other workers in mines and manufacturing will also find themselves on the unemployment scrap heap, thus eligible for Julia's carbon tax compensation.
    So the cost of business goes up. Any competitive advantage in competing in global markets have been thrown away through increased costs in fuel tax and union demands for higher pay for workers. So the industirial goose of golden egg fame will be killed and eaten or sold off overseas.
    If the Carbon tax is such a good idea, why hasn't Wayne Swan and the government eliminated the need to borrow billions from the Chinese? Why is the number of pensioners going to shiver in their beds because they can't afford to heat and illuminate their homes increasing? I can't recall when the previous Howard government was in office that pensioners had to resort to these measures. The Salvation Army and other charities report increased calls for help from the public on an unprecedented scale since the 1930's. So the Carbon tax is good for us? Maybe if you are a fat cat working in the Department of Climate Change it is. At least for now.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:29pm
    While significant progress is being made, it is not enough. Globally emissions are continuing to rise strongly.
    http://climatecommission.gov.au/report/global-action-building/

    but where is Prof. Flannery just when you need him ?
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-27/flannery-fails-to-attend-senate-estimates/4715770
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:31pm
    ps - he is one of the fattest fat cats around but apparently not in Oz as he is getting fatter elsewhere. Probably a wise career move as he wont have a job in Oz come Sept.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:32pm
    Maybe he is much better as a vocational guidance officer than at predicting climate change ?
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    5:34pm
    What's progress?
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    5:39pm
    if you can find him ask Prof. Flannery - or read his Commissions take on it
    http://climatecommission.gov.au/report/global-action-building/
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    6:09pm
    ps - the top line sentence is not mine - sorry - its a direct quote from the link below it. I forgot to put wabbit ears on it.
    alfie
    29th May 2013
    6:00pm
    Heavy fines on polluters is more appropriate than taxing everyone. If the fines are heavy companies that pollute will be forced to modify their System. The options to buy carbon options from other countries who don't pollute as much is crazy because we're sending our money overseas instead of using it in-house to build infrastractures...
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    6:38pm
    Who decides what is pollution?
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    6:53pm
    Professor Flannery - but he cant be found. Now that the Resources, Energy and Tourism Minister Martin Ferguson has given notice the ALP rat pack rabble are in complete 'lets jump over the cliff before it gets any worse ' lemming world of despair.
    JJ
    29th May 2013
    6:54pm
    The carbon tax is an impost directly affecting manufacturers, it is something we have to pay for only because the manufacturers are passing the costs onto us. The same would apply to a fine I imagine - that would be passed on to us again through raising prices for their goods. The whole point of the carbon tax is as an incentive to carbon producers to find or develop ways to lower their carbon footprint by using more environmentally friendly energy.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    7:45pm
    That is incorrect the point of a carbon tax is to increase the cost of electricity so that we will use less
    The problem is that it applies to our factories not the imported goods
    So it is like an internal tariff on our own people
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    7:52pm
    I bow to your fiscal intellect Pete. Salute.
    No wonder that manufacturing is stuffed up bigtime in this 'lucky country'.
    The ALP & its 'rocky marriage' with the Greens and those renegades has done nothing but further undermine this nations future prosperity with their so called 'socialist do good' policies. 108 days to go - cant wait.
    Sylvia
    29th May 2013
    6:01pm
    Do away with the tax , maybe introduce an award for ideas of using alternative fuels or source of energy, need is the mother of inventions.But this tax seems another big impost on an already over taxed nation, we already pay billions to other countries, and it looks like it will all end up in the fatcats hands as usual, I think the whole world has gone nuts.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    8:55pm
    well said
    Grey Voter
    29th May 2013
    8:46pm
    The carbon tax was introduced by deceit in order to please the Greens and secure their support to Labour in order to form a government. No party wins an election by promising a new tax and in fact Ms Gillard gave a solemn promise not to intriduce it.....as we all well know. In a very short time, both the carbon Tax and the Mining Tax have proved so futile that instead of the surplus they were supposed to create, they instead failed to perform and helped immensely in creating a politically (for Labour) undesirable deficit.

    As the song says "Come September".....asap
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    9:48pm
    Amen
    Sally-Jane
    29th May 2013
    10:51pm
    What does the weighing machine that is used for weghing carbon look like and also how do they collect it to put on said weighing machine? Also if it can be collected for weighing then why not collect and get rid of it. Darned if I can see how carbon tax money will make it go away. All just one big money grabbing scam that seems like far too many have been sucked in and brainwashed. Some people will believe any bull dust. It's a shame poor old common sense has died.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    11:00pm
    Allelulah sister
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    11:05pm
    bloody hell Sally-Jane - its way past the senile folks bedtime stories and you start asking bloody darn hard questions to answer ? what sort of nasty mean cant go to sleep streak do you have ? hehe
    Well, it all started with some smart arse prick called Gore - who ended up getting [notice I didnt say earning or winning] a Nobel prize for his home made video - see, anyone can do it !! He called it the J curve [hockey stick graph] of the rising amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere. The big C is the carbon atom and as it is a set standard formula one can calculate the actual weight of the the big C.

    So if your cement factory produces X amount of cement then that factory produces X amount of CO2. Viola and there is the big C that that company must be prosecuted for emitting or pay a fine or it can buy credit from someone who wants to trade in carbon credits. Some Tibetan monks think that it is a brilliant way to control carbon emissions across the globe. Yet they dont produce much carbon unless they eat fermented rice and then they fart a lot. I hope that that explains the wonders of chemistry for you.

    From "All just" above you are right on the money honey.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    11:10pm
    ooops - CO2 is carbon dioxide gas - a gas that is very very small in the atmosphere but helps trap the heat from the sun and is therefore labelled a 'greenhouse gas'. Surprisingly there are other gases like methane that are far worse but we the global community dont give a rats arse bit of concern about them. We are just against the big C because it is a big C and not a little c.
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    11:27pm
    Allelua Brother Aquas

    29th May 2013
    11:04pm
    I think the motion put forward by Kaye Fallack on behalf of the Labor/Green/Union alliance
    Has been resoundly defeated.
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    11:07pm
    whitewashed into oblivion
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    11:15am
    Sorry Kaye Fallick I spelt your name incorrectly
    Kaye Fallick
    29th May 2013
    11:09pm
    Hi Pete, no motion on behalf of anyone - my blog is all my own work :-)
    And we do seem to have some members in favour of retaining the current carbon pricing scheme, so our usual robust debate.
    But can we please keep it polite? two comments removed for being rude to others.
    Kaye Fallick
    29th May 2013
    11:11pm
    Update - make that three
    aquatrek
    29th May 2013
    11:15pm
    some ? name them and lets see a tally Kaye - double dare
    Anonymous
    29th May 2013
    11:34pm
    I don't think it a balanced article in that we are being asked an to express an opinion on two flawed schemes not whether we should have any schemes at all.
    I understand it is an opinion piece but your opinion does neatly line up with the labor alliance.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    11:37pm
    Sock it to him Kaye, Yeehaaaaaaa.
    Young Simmo
    29th May 2013
    11:15pm
    Has anybody noticed how quiet it has been tody, not a single mention of the Boogy man in the sky, quick somebody go and check on Taskid and make sure she is OK.
    MITZY
    30th May 2013
    8:11am
    Young Simmo"
    Heaven forbid ... let sleeping dog lie ... you know what dog is spelled backwards?

    30th May 2013
    11:21am
    It does seem strange that both major parties have exchanged there normal philosophical positions on this topic.
    The left are advocating a market solution and the right are advocating direct government action.
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    11:47am
    yet it is all a political farce - each is caught up in a mini war about a highly technical environmental conundrum - coal is here for many decades or longer - gas is a part-time saviour but not a 100% solution - renewables need research and development and money - an ocean surge/wave generator was trialled off Port Kembla NSW but the Oz innovation failed.
    http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/628552/5m-port-kembla-wave-generator-wrecked/
    It has now gone to SA.
    http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/271346/port-kembla-wave-power-headed-to-sa/
    Every time that something like wind turbines are announced there is a local uproar.
    One cant imagine what a nuclear proposal would bring !!
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    12:43pm
    Yes it does seem tragic that here we are a nation of huge energy resources that we are artificially increasing electricity prices .
    We will never be a country of huge old fashion manufacturing but we could add value and yet take one area we turn bauxite into aluminum they were attracted because we had cheap electricity we are now driving them offshore so we will revert to exporting bauxite.
    As far as direct action it has proved a failure every time this current govt has done it subsidizing car companies subsidizing solar installing insulation etc
    And trying to second guess technology .
    Leaving it to market forces in the manner proposed by labor where we will send billions off shore to trade in carbon credits is also a recipe for disaster .
    Young Simmo
    30th May 2013
    1:13pm
    Pete, you left out BULLET HEADS total failure of an insulation bat project that killed a couple of people. Now he, errrrr IT, is hiding in another part of the Govt. A couple of dollars for Pensioners power bills, would have made an enormous difference.
    jeanb
    30th May 2013
    11:52am
    When are self funded pensioners going to get some compensation for carbon pricing? I thought that the tax was to be reduced, but believe that all tax reductions have been cancelled. Jean B
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    12:06pm
    http://www.news.com.au/national-news/federal-election/families-to-miss-out-on-promised-tax-cuts-as-budget-woes-continue/story-fnho52ip-1226637363434

    Fiscal mismanagement by the world's greatest treasurer [after Costello and Keating of course]
    Anonymous
    30th May 2013
    1:01pm
    Not only cancelled but increased labor is proposing to limit the draw down of your own money and for you to pay tax above that limit
    No one yet understands the interaction between this and centrelinks rules on the aged pension normal labor cock up
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    12:11pm
    "Pre-elections, many past Opposition leaders have huffed and puffed that they would reverse legislation and then quietly walked away if they got into power. We can only hope on the current carbon pricing Mr. Abbott, too, will leave well alone…"

    http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/clean-energy-future/carbon-price/

    Lies, Lies and more Lies. Does that mean that Mr Swan is now the worlds greatest liar ?
    Young Simmo
    30th May 2013
    5:28pm
    WOW, 2 days without a mention of that BOOGY MAN in the sky, I wonder, did somebody pull the plug and send Tasmania and Taskid to the bottom of the ocean?
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    5:31pm
    you might be pushing your [and ours] luck !!
    they have been known to 'come back from the dead' you know.
    Young Simmo
    30th May 2013
    5:44pm
    Hell, I hadn't thought about that, imagine if she came back as Eddie Maguire and King Kong was her man.
    aquatrek
    30th May 2013
    6:05pm
    WTF ? is Eddie dead ? surely you cant come back and 'invade' a living one ? now if the reincarnation path was a karma related one then the repository could be King Kong. Ever since the biplanes shot him down offa the Empire State building I have felt really sorry for him. The unmentionable one would do well to be 'reborn' into a male gorillas body hehe
    Young Simmo
    30th May 2013
    5:31pm
    It surprises me that the BLOODNUT can blatantly and tell lies, and break promises and get away with it. Yet Tony Abbott can't even change his mind. For all you BLOODNUT lovers there is a subtle difference.
    Innyoo
    31st May 2013
    8:44am
    Yes the carbon tax should be removed. Compensations always miss out some of the population who are suffering because of the price rises, yes even those before the tax came in (in anticipation of it). Carbon is not a pollutant and there is no Global warming a scam) and climate change has been happening ever since God created the Earth. Nothing to do with our bit of pollution. Has anyone flown over Australia lately? Don't see much but trees and green fields. I think Australia really doesn't need to 'lead the world' in such a silly tax when we are very minor world pollutants.
    Boof
    31st May 2013
    9:22am
    Carbon pricing will come in, if not now, but in the future years, through world pressure. Labor has taken the initative to introduce it now, which will make it much cheaper, while our economy is good. It will be cheaper for, for us, in a few years time, when it will be compulsory to have it.
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    9:29am
    Should we introduce a methane tax?
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    10:14am
    If you are a believer in tackling co2 as a pollutant then shouldn't the discussion be as proposed , on the best use of taxpayers money to achieve this
    If you read back I have explained that the labor proposal to buy carbon credits overseas will cost billions and not reduce carbon emissions in Australia
    The liberal proposal for direct action will if labors efforts so far are any guide will not work
    My own thoughts are it is futile to try and combat nature to reverse global warming or cooling
    But if you want some feel good actions why not put another brick in the sea wall
    Or we the tax payers recognize that we will be using coal and pay to put scrubbers on the peer grenerators
    Other countries are taking pragmatic steps china has banned the import of dirty coal and is increasing the impotation of cleaner coal great for aus
    The united states is limiting the export of gas until the home market is catered for
    Unlike aus
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    10:19am
    Power not peer
    Any thoughts on a methane tax?
    Oor a water vapor tax?
    Does anyone know what happened to the hole in the ozone layer it seems to have gone off the radar
    Abby
    31st May 2013
    8:44pm
    We will save money when we get rid of the carbon tax as well as getting rid of the Climate Change Department.
    This has been yet another Labor's waste of funds.
    Anonymous
    31st May 2013
    9:30pm
    And the 20 percent renewable target
    Boof
    31st May 2013
    9:25am
    Sorry about the stuttering. I should have checked it B4 sending. Just thought I'd have my two bob's worth and scribbled the above in a hurry.
    aquatrek
    31st May 2013
    9:48am
    Innyoo above is correct in that Oz does not get into the top 10 emitters of CO2 because Oz has such a small population when compared to other nations. Yet due to the Oz lifestyle per capita we do rate highly. That CO2 supports life as in fauna [animals both on land and much more importantly the oceans] and flora [all green plants need it] its intrinsic nature, although a tiny fraction of the atmospheric makeup, signifies its importance.Here are three relevant links to the conundrum of CO2 in the earths environmental systems. Yep, some chemistry involved.

    http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/co2.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

    http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/environmental/200611CO2globalwarming.html
    Young Simmo
    31st May 2013
    3:22pm
    Holy cow, 3 days in a row with no Boogy in the Sky, maybe Taskid is in a Taliban men's club doing a refresher coarse. Or maybe she is telling them where they are wrong, and that Allah was really Julia Gillard with a wig.

    1st Jun 2013
    9:27am
    Good article Kaye. The carbon tax makes much more sense than the LNP's Direct Action Policy. It is working and we will all be worse off under the latter. I hope we keep it.

    I heard yesterday that power prices in QLD are set to increase by 22% shortly. That's what happens when companies are privatised. Prices go up. Our state governments have let us down by allowing infrastructure to go to pot and then privatising our power companies.
    Anonymous
    1st Jun 2013
    3:50pm
    If you want to keep the carbon tax you had better lobby the Labor/green/union alliance as they intend to replace it with trading in carbon credits.
    Anonymous
    1st Jun 2013
    10:54pm
    Which will send billions overseas
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    9:18am
    spot on Robiconda. State govs. are putting profit before people. We need less dividend and more infrastructure maintenance. Just look at our roads, our Post Offices and now our electricity. State and Federal Govs. need a swift kick.
    Anonymous
    4th Jun 2013
    8:50pm
    That's odd student my reply below was written 1 June

    1st Jun 2013
    3:46pm
    The Queensland Competive Authority set the price they blame the rise on the carbon tax the solar rebate and the 20 per cent renewable target
    Yes labor govts would not allow privatization but took billions in profit a nd therefore the
    State own enterprises could not invest
    Socialism in action
    Woody
    2nd Jun 2013
    8:19am
    As a new reader to your forum on things political. People of my age must remember weather cycles over the decades before now. Climate change ,carbon footprint, global warming were all a ploy by firstly Rudd, to get elected, then Gillard took up the same rhetoric. Remember the Howard/Costello years, everyone and I repeat all Australians were doing well or had the opportunity to do well. History repeats itself with Gillards no creditability. Lets rid ourselves of these self centred labour idiots as past, Whitlam, Hawk , Keating. Revoloutinists all who changed society for the worse.
    student
    2nd Jun 2013
    9:22am
    Revolutionists?? There's a revolution coming (to a theater near you) ???
    wally
    2nd Jun 2013
    11:54am
    If the carbon tax is such a good policy, why is the Gillard Government still in debt to China? What happened to all the budget surpluses Wayne Swan was supposed to create? Why does the boss of BHP=Billiton claim that his company is not making profit from coal mining in the present economic climate? Businesses that used to be viable either go off shore to produce their goods (ie Pacific Brands) or, like Ford, abandon manufacturing in Australia. Where do all the former employees of these companies go for jobs? I read somewhere that there going to be green jobs created for them? Doing what? Digging up old Telstra pits for the NBN and risking asbestosis? Does the four fatalities of pink batts' installers come to mind? When more businesses stop employing people, where does the tax money that pays pensions come from? Australia cannot survive if all people do is wash each others dogs or cars, mow each others' lawns or make and sell coffee to each other. "Poor white trash of Asia," here we come if this situation continues until 2016.
    aquatrek
    3rd Jun 2013
    4:54pm
    another 'short sighted' policy decision - cheap computers on desktops comes to an end.
    http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/byo-laptop-to-school-as-funds-dry-up-20130601-2nig2.html
    so will the ALP.
    ghoti
    3rd Jun 2013
    12:25am
    Reading the comments here one is struck by the general intelligence on display, in particular by the rapier-like rhetoric and the indisputable logic of the argument. If the LNP wins the next election it will stand tall on the shoulders of intellectual giants the likes of aquatrek, Pete and the incomparable Young Simmo.
    Anonymous
    3rd Jun 2013
    12:34am
    AAw gee fishie you leave me breathless
    Up the blues
    aquatrek
    4th Jun 2013
    6:06pm
    yep - right up the blues as the reds [not my fav color at all] will dominate again hehe
    ghoti
    4th Jun 2013
    6:53pm
    As I said, rapier-like rhetoric and indisputable logic. Surely Young Simmo, at least, will not disappoint?
    aquatrek
    4th Jun 2013
    7:31pm
    good lawd - what is it you really want ghoti ? there is no friggin way I am kissing a kanga !! even on a double dare - yuk
    aquatrek
    6th Jun 2013
    8:14am
    must eat humble pie as those pesky blues seemed to be very very angry about anything

    3rd Jun 2013
    12:52am
    Hello,

    I found this article in the Australian iPad application and thought you may find it interesting:

    CFCs 'real culprit in global warming'
    BANNED aerosols that caused the ozone hole - not carbon dioxide - were responsible for global warming since the 1970s, according to published research from one of Canada's leading universities.

    To read the full story, visit this link. Please note you do not need to have an iPad to read this article. If you own an iPad, visit the App Store and download the Australian iPad application.

    Please note: some articles may only be read by holders of The Australian Digital Pass. To view subscription options, please click here.
    Oldie87
    3rd Jun 2013
    9:54pm
    On the other hand just buy today' paper.
    A very interesting article it is. Someone here wondered what happened to the hole in the Ozone layer. Now you know.
    Just goes to show that not all scientists are in agreement.
    Anthony Gale
    4th Jun 2013
    5:58pm
    Leave the carbon Tax as it is stop stuffing around New Zealand and other countries have had in force for a number of years thinking of their future generations and all our lovely Country can do is argue about it just think of our children and grand children.
    aquatrek
    4th Jun 2013
    6:05pm
    rubbish - carbon trading has collapsed in the EU as the reality kicks in - concensus is not proof - never has and never will be - 200 years of empirical data does not a perfect climate recipe make - duh
    Anonymous
    6th Jun 2013
    6:20am
    The best way to help your lovely Gand children is to stop this givt sending billions
    Overseas to buy permission to keep polluting ? Here


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