Coalition's late election costings

Joe Hockey is expected to release the Coalition’s election costings today

Coalition's late election costings

Shadow Treasurer, Joe Hockey, is expected to release the Coalition's election costings today, less than 48 hours before the polls open. Mr Hockey has also refused to comment on when the Coalition will bring the budget into surplus, but did say that the budget would be ‘in excess of $6 billion’ better off in cash terms and that gross debt would be $16 billion lower.

Unlike last election, where the Coalition used a private firm for their costings, the Parliamentary Budget Office have modelled the Coalition costings. The Coalition have also assembled a panel consisting of former top bureaucrat Peter Shergold, economist Geoff Carmody and former Queensland auditor-general, Len Scanlan, to go through the costings with a fine-tooth comb to prevent holes in the budget.

The election advertising ban took effect from midnight on Wednesday and it is no surprise that the Coalition withheld their costings until this advertising ban came into place. In 2007 Labor waited until the last day of the election campaign to reveal its policy details and full costings.

Read more from The Australian
Read more from The Age

Opinion: The postal vote

An estimated two million electors have until today to fill in and submit their votes by mail, and almost two million have already cast their votes, so how is releasing costings this late in the election fair?

I received my postal vote in the mail over two weeks ago and placed my senate vote above the line. I take a keen interest in the way our country is run and have been watching countless hours of interviews and political spin throughout the campaign, so my choice was easy. But I do worry about those who were undecided when they received their postal votes in the mail. Could they cast an informed vote for a Coalition party which has refused throughout the campaign to release their costings, and given no clear date when it would do so? I’m not sure I could if I was in this situation.

The Coalition isn’t the first party to hold off until the final days of the election campaign to ensure their policies and costings are not the target of advertising campaigns. In 2007, the Labor government waited until the final day of the campaign to reveal policy details and costings, while in 2010, their full policy details were not known until the day of the election. So why are we surprised that the Coalition have held off so late?

It seems obvious to me that before the next election, these policies and procedures need to change. If it was up to me, I would want all parties to submit their final list of policies and costings at least four weeks before polling day. This would give both postal voters and those who vote on election day the opportunity to understand exactly what each party’s polices are and allow for advertising from both parties to outline the negatives and positives or what is being presented.

All I ask is for everyone to be given equal and full access to all the facts before having to make a decision and vote. Is that too much to ask?

Did you vote by post? Did the Coalition’s lack of costings affect your vote? Could postal votes, which could skew towards the Labor party, decide this election? 





    COMMENTS

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    Pommy
    5th Sep 2013
    10:46am
    What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so the saying goes. So Labor can't bleat "unfair" when the tables are turned.

    However, I think costings by all parties, even the minor ones should accompany the policy whenever it is introduced. This would certainly stop policies on the "fly", as seems to have been more pronounced in this election than ever before.

    As for postal votes affecting the results, IMO if people are going to vote without the full story, then they are probably the type who have voted the same way all their lives and are unlikely to change, regardless of late information.
    et54
    5th Sep 2013
    11:18am
    Anyone not on at least $150,000 pa should have their head read if they vote for Tony Abbott. The Liberal Party has never cared about people who are lower earners and never will. Not in their DNA.
    Troubadour
    5th Sep 2013
    2:12pm
    Totally disagree - we have never ever been anywhere near this amount, in fact probably half, but have always been worse off with Labor. Our Liberal MLA does
    a lot for our area, for people all across the board.
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    2:17pm
    Yorkie,
    Totally disagree with you........... the Labor Party was for the low working families,............. and the Liberal always looked after the wealthy and self refunded,............. and even now ........................if the Liberal party was going to give to any retired pensioner it would be to a self refunded not the struggleing retired pensioners
    missmarple
    5th Sep 2013
    3:05pm
    Right on et54, this parenting payment sham (via Abbott ) has got my blood boiling, in my day we managed on 1 wage when we started our family, I guess it was because we lived within our means, and I would like to know where the money is coming from for all he is going to do when he is cutting taxes,, all he is good for is parading around in his budgie smugglers , riding his bike,, or feeding his face,, even his laugh is laughable,,, GO LABOR
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    3:20pm
    missmarple, good one mate go Labor
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    3:49pm
    tia-maria

    "........... the Labor Party was for the low working families,.........." You've gotta be at least as old as I am because it's a bloody long time since Labor MP's could be thus described. I can remember when "Labour" members were mainly drawn from the shop floor and they had residual dirt under their fingernails to prove it!

    Now they are a posse of bright young men who decided very early in their "working" life to pursue a career on the public tit. Their path to this aim is quite clear, go to University and graft a law degree and then align yourself with a firm that represents a union or, bypassing the solicitation stage, go straight to work for a union or as a staffer for an incumbent Labor member.........easy peasy!

    The wankers and brown nosers who comprise the current Labor potage would find it difficult to get a job in the real world.
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    5:26pm
    Paddles, If you ask me, both sides of Political Parties have changed for the worse mate.......I dont trust any of the buggers most of them are ex-lawyers and what Lawyer do your trust anyway?????....They only in it to get what they can is such a short term.....and a fantastic pension and all the bloody perks.......NONE OF THEM KNOW HOW TO RUN A COUNTRY.........who do I blame us the voters for not standing up to them to stop their benifits.....we employ them so why dont we have a say and vote what they receive.
    HOLA
    6th Sep 2013
    5:04am
    None of the politicians on both sides would know how to run a chook raffle leave alone running the country. I got a leaflet in my letterbox yesterday exposing one of the constituents in my area. He runs a can repair business plus other things and has sacked 300 here in Australia and has moved offshore to Malaysia, photo to prove it. He has also been exposed as being charged with fraud and writing a glowing letter of recommendation of someone who had also been charged with fraud. Do they think we are all idiots, but then some people would vote for him because they are of the same ethnic persuasion. Just because someone has a Law degree doesn't mean he has life skills.
    Aloysius
    5th Sep 2013
    11:46am
    Unfortunately, whoever you vote for will turn out to be a politician.
    heyyybob
    5th Sep 2013
    12:39pm
    :D
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    2:19pm
    bloody hell Aloysius why didnt I think of that??? good one mate
    Jurassicgeek
    5th Sep 2013
    3:23pm
    Totally agree Aloysius! Definitely a politician! .....
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    3:52pm
    Aloysius

    I have heard that expressed as.........."whoever you vote for, you will get a member".

    It needs a basic medical knowledge to truly appreciate this one......lol
    HOLA
    6th Sep 2013
    5:06am
    Yes we all know what you mean PADDLES, a DICK HEAD. And that's praising

    them up.
    Foxy
    5th Sep 2013
    11:47am
    ..a "cut off" date - (like maybe 7 days prior to election?) - for all policies/costings etc. to be released from all parties should be introduced - so people have a fair chance of deciding whom they really want to vote for! Thinking "The Sleeping Giant" right now...he had a good old go with Karl this morning on the Today Show - :-)
    raymondp
    5th Sep 2013
    11:51am
    Its Labor all the way for me
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    2:20pm
    be good to see.
    surfer
    5th Sep 2013
    3:13pm
    Tony will save us from the banana republic
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    3:21pm
    hey surfer boy god help us if your darling Tony comes in my friend
    Jurassicgeek
    5th Sep 2013
    3:26pm
    The great bat eared Messiah will prolly romp in ...but he wont save us.... Watch out pensioners and low income earners ..HERE COMES ABBOTT!!
    Foxy
    5th Sep 2013
    5:32pm
    anyone see Abbott on Kitchen Cabinet last night? How scary were some of his answers - especially him discussing how he almost - almost - became a Priest instead of a Politician....and how - because of his "political agenda" right now he has to miss Mass on Sunday's (although he tries to get to church during the week as much as he can) arrgghhhh.....the best thing I noticed -was him trying to cut tomatoes for a salad (like he ever done that before in his life! - lol) - and - even more hilarious was his daughter (in the background) drinking "red "from a crystal wine glass - managed to scull that in the first 60 seconds of the show and then went back and got another one and then the daughters left him to it with Annabelle Crabb" (or whatever her name is?) .........and his "fake" laugh throughout the show was cringeworthy....nasty ugly man - and before you all think I'm for Labour - I'm not - I'm voting for Justice For Animals or Clive Palmer- no way is either of the current imbeciles getting my vote !!!
    surfer
    6th Sep 2013
    10:28am
    Did anyone see Krudd, rushing back to Brisbane from Sydney to learn how to boil an egg. After that achievement he rushed back to Canberra to hear about the Syrian crisis. The all important exercise was the egg boiling. No wonder we are swimming in debt.
    minnie
    5th Sep 2013
    12:10pm
    How they are allowed to hold out for this long is beyond me! They don't deserve one single solitary vote for this behaviour. Unfortunately the Australian Public have people that blindly just vote the same 'party' time after time for their entire lives without looking at 'real policy' or 'costings' and listen to propaganda rhetoric.
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    4:01pm
    Giving the electorate more time to analyse policies and costings is a fine idea in principle but giving them the intellect to really understand the issues is another thing entirely.

    Call me a cynic........call me a curmudgeon..........call me whatever you fancy but, as a person who dealt on a face-to-face basis with the general public on a daily basis for twenty odd years, I despair of the mass's IQ. Being a regular reader of these pages has not altered my assessment!
    Pass the Ductape
    5th Sep 2013
    12:25pm
    What does it matter Drew?

    If it's one thing I've learnt over the years, it's that It doesn't matter what the cost figures are concerning ANY of the promises made by political parties; in the final analysis, they're all guaranteed to be wrong - one way or another!

    And what do we do about it? Come election time, we rid ourselves of one incompetent mob and replace it with another! And so it goes around and around and around and around! Can't wait to see what the next incompetent mob comes up with.....but I bet a pay raise is high on the list.
    surfer
    5th Sep 2013
    3:16pm
    OOOooo NOOooo Please, not a pay rise. They already get more than the president of USA and the PM of England.
    heyyybob
    5th Sep 2013
    12:50pm
    Roll up, roll up !! Berths selling fast for the fleet of 'slow boats to.....'
    Sailings commence on Sunday.
    Still room for those Fervent Followers of ALL political parties who dip out on having their Messiahs elected and judging from the bitter rhetoric we have seen in the last couple of weeks, will definitely want to leave this doomed land ;)
    Pass the Ductape
    5th Sep 2013
    1:15pm
    Yes - we might moan and groan a little heyyybob, but would we want it any other way?

    NOOOOOooooooooo!

    Can't wait to get stuck into Abbott's mob come next week......different meat, but the same mincer!
    heyyybob
    5th Sep 2013
    1:40pm
    Yeah, yer right. A guys gotta have a hobby, hey ;)
    Pass the Ductape
    5th Sep 2013
    4:21pm
    Hehehe....yeah mate!
    Jen
    5th Sep 2013
    1:32pm
    It's insulting to the voting public and disgraceful behaviour. Mushrooms folks, that's what we are, to the LNP. Kept in the dark and fed on s**t.
    surfer
    6th Sep 2013
    10:31am
    I think the labor supporters are toadstills. Being fed worse than s***t
    Gill
    5th Sep 2013
    2:07pm
    I agree with ductape.

    Costings are almost irrelevant to an election. Give a set of figures to 5 different accountants, ask them a certain set of questions and you may get 5 different outcomes.

    The politicians have been campaigning since Julia Gillard announced the election date in January. Once a date is announced that should be IT, the beginning of the campaign.The official 'launch"of their campaigns is joke, a week before we vote is wrong, as it means the taxpayer pays all their travel expenses until their "launch".
    If it is right 25% of voters have already voted can we reduce the hours and wages that the electoral staff manning the polling booths by 25%.

    Three levels of government! It is time we get rid of one and save the taxpayers hard earned dollars.

    My council has to keep propping up their staff's preserved superannuation with $3-4 million every few years from the ratepayers. That hurts when I am self employed and can not afford the luxuary of superannuation.
    Incognito
    5th Sep 2013
    2:07pm
    No I didn't do a postal vote as I wasn't eligible,it would have been handy though,maybe I could have lied that I will be away on the day? Bottom line is elections are big business especially for the media. What a waste of money,could have been put to better use like paying ambulance drivers what they are worth. Upgrading hospitals are no use if there is not enough staff,empty beds and no staff. I will be voting for someone who cares,and voting the below the line is more important than ever this year,take the time to preference vote.
    Mamacrystal
    5th Sep 2013
    2:30pm
    you can do pre polling at your nearest Polling Office. As I was going to be away from home on Saturday, I voted at my nearest (31km away) last Wednesday.
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    4:07pm
    Anyone wishing to avoid the madding crowd on Saturday, should rock up to your nearest pre-polling location and, if asked for a reason for early voting, just say "religious reasons". Under our touchy-feely, don't offend anyone regulations, you will not be challenged further.
    professori_au
    5th Sep 2013
    2:21pm
    Any costing's need to be accompanied by full disclosure of the process of arriving at the models. Percentages need t include the figures otherwise it becomes a percentage of What!
    Based on experience I do not trust either main parties. they are influenced by shadow figures behind the scene representing the interests of the poltical factions and not the interests of the public. We don't vote for shadows.
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    4:11pm
    professori_au

    I would refer you to my post above about intellectual capacity and suggest that you are whistling into the wind.

    Your appellation of "au" is intriguing as it is commonly associated with GOLD!
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    2:24pm
    I bet the first thing who ever the PM will be on Sunday morning..........THAT THEY WILL AGREE WITH EACH OTHER ON A PENSION RISE FOR THEMSELVES????????????............as they never gave us a damm thought did they????????
    surfer
    6th Sep 2013
    2:55pm
    Not enough left in the kitty even for a pollies pension rise. Gotta cut cut cut and cut again, then I gotta zip.
    Sea Dog
    5th Sep 2013
    3:06pm
    How is it necessary for two million australians (approx 10% of the total population or 15% of voting age people) to have to make a postal vote - cant believe it - so far in advance. Agree, probably only those dyed in the wool party hacks (either side) would be so one eyed to jump in without all the possible facts before them.
    surfer
    5th Sep 2013
    3:18pm
    We have been suffering all the facts for the last six years.
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    3:27pm
    We be suffering more ...........Surfer...........As we will have such a major Baby Boom at the espense of the Tax payers of Australia.......and less and less for pensioners.
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    4:13pm
    surfer

    Very succinct and no less true........you nailed it baby!!!!!!
    tia-maria
    5th Sep 2013
    4:35pm
    Paddles, typical comment from a Liberal voter.
    MITZY
    6th Sep 2013
    9:35am
    SeaDog:There are a lot of elderly people in nursing homes all across Australia needing to vote. A couple of weeks ago I saw a car with electoral commission written on it turning into a nursing home close to where I live. There are people who because of booking holidays months in advance could be on the high seas cruising or travelling overseas. What about the Aussies overseas who go to Australia House etc. to vote, they have to vote beforehand because otherwise they would know the results of the election here in advance. Then there are disabled voters, who need assistance to vote, and not all polling booths have disability facilities.
    HOLA
    6th Sep 2013
    10:07am
    EGYPTIAN -- I was in hospital one year during a Council Election. People from the Electrol Commission came around handing out the voting forms, and then waited until we had finished filling them out, and sealed them in envelopes.Don't know what happened to those who were very ill and could not even write. Do you think they would be fined for not voting?
    surfer
    6th Sep 2013
    2:58pm
    C'mon my friend tia-maria, we have to all pull together and support Tony. Then when the economy gets up and running again, pensioners will get a fair go. Please remember Mr. Rudd has left the cupboard dry.
    Pommy
    5th Sep 2013
    3:15pm
    See the original article above and it states that " In 2007, the Labor government waited until the final day of the campaign to reveal policy details and costings, while in 2010, their full policy details were not known until the day of the election". So please don't scream "unfair". Labor set the precedent.

    It is also a long time since Labor considered the working man, both parties are as bad as each other, and I include the Greens in that, they are just a breakaway radical group of Labor and will always kowtow to Labor.

    Selective memory seems to prevail when people start talking politics, ignore the facts, except the ones that fit the argument. I'll be glad when it's all over, and if the Libs get in, let's see how negative the opposition will be then.
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    4:17pm
    Y'know, for a Pommy, you are a better Aussie than many who litter these pages with their inane ramblings.............well said!!!
    Huskie
    5th Sep 2013
    3:25pm
    Tony Abbott wants to stop the boats by buying them. Will he buy one for me?
    heyyybob
    5th Sep 2013
    3:54pm
    Yep Huskie. The two things that have really amazed me. I (a pensioner) am expected to vote for a Political party that will pay (struggling ?) women, on $1 5 0 , 0 0 0 . o o per year, $75,000.00 plus super boost to stay home and enjoy (oops) struggle to take care of a baby for 6 months. Secondly this Political party will buy thousands of boats (seaworthy or not) in an attempt to stop people smugglers coming from Indonesia. Good grief :O How can ANYONE agree with these two proposals and what they will cost us without demanding they be fully justified and proven to be cost effective ?? You thought Pink Batts was an obscene joke ? :(
    HOLA
    6th Sep 2013
    5:18am
    HUSKIE -- I can see the manufacturing of boats increasing 100% in Indonesia so they can sell them to Australia.
    surfer
    6th Sep 2013
    10:41am
    Pink batts were a joke Heyyybob, Poor young blokes got killed. Hardly a comparison.
    heyyybob
    6th Sep 2013
    11:15am
    Sure Surfer - you think paying some-one $75,000.00 plus super-boost to stay home for 6 months and 'struggle' to raise a child isn't a joke ? It's a valid comparison.
    surfer
    6th Sep 2013
    3:05pm
    heyyybob, I think they should all be paid a flat rate irrespective of earning ability. That way, people like farmers wives that really work their butts off would get a fair go to.
    Fossil
    5th Sep 2013
    4:07pm
    All you people seem to be able to foresee the future>>> How so....Let us Vote it is a privilege and then let us respect the PM, if we have a gripe, Make ourselves heard via the Local Member or the usual procedures. We still CAN protest in this country, unfortunately people protest for the wrong reasons, Horses for courses remember? if you are in a lower income bracket then you need to live within your means, we need to realize that we are a throw away society, shame to all of us.... How many bought a new TV with the bonus received by the Govt a couple of years ago?? wouldn't that been better used? say on your health needs. I met a chap the other day showing off his tattoos, (dole bludger) saves $300 and then goes and gets another Tattoo, when he went to get a new partial denture organized he baulked!! what I Can't afford that!! came back the next week with a chit from the Govt to pay for them.... Shame on them ....oh yes they will vote for whoever gives them most... unfortunately there are a lot of those people around.. which noisy wheel will get the oil??
    Paddles
    5th Sep 2013
    4:33pm
    Tango

    Yep!! I'll dance with you on all you say. Your list of grievances is by no means complete but it does encapsulate much of what is now wrong with this country and, unfortunately, many other countries that display similar compassion for the needy, such as the UK, Canada etc.

    In a recent post on another thread, I said that much of the general public today reminds me of the picture of a birds nest full of chicks. There they are with their mouths open, squawking for Mum (or Dad) to drop some nourishment in. It is not a very good analogy for our current times as the multitude of squawkers that we must try to satisfy, want, nay demand, more than nourishment. They tend to want luxuries.

    What most disturbs me is that this all took place during my lifetime and I, with typical Australian political apathy, didn't get up on a soapbox and protest. Blind Freddy could have seen this coming and we all know that it can't go on forever, but I don't think that I will be around to see the pendulum swing back the other way.
    Pass the Ductape
    5th Sep 2013
    5:12pm
    Contact your local member? Okay I've done that - many times. You know what happens then? I'll tell you....... All that happens is your letter, query, or whatever, (if the members secretary thinks it's interesting enough otherwise it's filed in the bin) is placed into the IN tray for the member to look at a later time. Then, when the member eventually manages to get around to looking at these things, their job is to think up with biggest load of tripe that in essence says nothing, but at the same time placates your concerns. You might even be lucky to get a spiel that is part of a speech made in parliament that could allude to your concerns, (but again, it tells you nothing).

    No dear Tango.....I've been down that road too many times before and as for your noisy wheel getting the oil - well it pays to remember that it's also the first one to be replaced!
    Tinkerbell
    5th Sep 2013
    4:23pm
    Anybody who can vote for Abbott deserves whatever they do (or don't) get... He has treated us the voters with absolute contempt, the only people who are FOR his parental paid leave are school kids who not only have to get a job yet, but THINK they will earn enough to get the $75,000. maternity leave. Absolutely disgusting.
    No one will stop the boats, can't be done.
    Look out all you worker's out there paying off houses. You can't pay off a house when you don't have a job, and a LOT of you won't. Oh and you informal voters, don't think you have a right to complain either. SHAME ON YOU!!!
    kezza
    5th Sep 2013
    4:26pm
    Its not in the libs DNA to care for the needy
    Hes already said he'll cut welfare this includes supplements paid to those on Parenting payment and also to the millions on newstart, yet pay 75ooo to mumother earning 150 000.
    Also cut the refugee intake by thousands, guess those poor Syrians being gassed will miss out
    god help us!!!!
    The only thing they worry about is getting a surplus in the bank an any expense.... forget being equitable
    this is very scary
    surfer
    8th Sep 2013
    11:18am
    Well we will all have to get off our bums and do a bit of work for a change.

    5th Sep 2013
    4:27pm
    The only real costings is my budget.........and I'm way ahead for I have no debts, I do not borrow nor pay interest.... I earn it instead. What the Govt does is their responsibility.. none can be trusted...for they are akin to used car salesmen, tv evangelists and politicians. HEY hang on a minute.... they are politicians...HA HA
    moke
    5th Sep 2013
    4:42pm
    YES Paddles you got it right.
    It would seem some of these people Didn't hear the wonderful pay increase for politicians that came about whilst LABOUR headed our government. I don't think they are the low workers or needy but they certainly had a dip in the pig trough.
    surfer
    6th Sep 2013
    3:09pm
    The increase for pollies for one year was 46%. Not bad if you can get away with it. Poor nurses had trouble getting 2.5%. Now we need a real shake up, but it won't happen. Pig trough describes it.
    Flindersbar
    5th Sep 2013
    4:46pm
    Don't vote ....it only encourages the b.......s
    FEDUP
    6th Sep 2013
    5:22am
    Well one more sleep and then to the polling booth to register my vote.
    One thing I will remember this campaign is the "FOKESY" Prime Minister Rudd, who mentioned, when I started to count the word FOLKS, FOLK, a total of 146 times. And the number of times that both repeated what they had just said. I only hope that who ever wins
    this election has a majority in the Senate, so that the people's (not Folks) choice can
    govern and complete the mandate that the people have chose. Otherwise we will be back again to listen to the same rhetoric, same lies, same promises which are all like candy floss in a rainstorm.
    Pass the Ductape
    6th Sep 2013
    6:09am
    Candy-floss in a rainstorm! I like that.....
    AlbertC
    6th Sep 2013
    6:13am
    abbott is a womanizer where ever their are young woman abbott gets in the picture it must have been a shocker having to be among real workers earning honest money.as seen on tely and joe hockys sweating face said it all he was talking crap. he does not even know what he is talking about he was scared sh......... that he might get it wrong. we look like going back 14 yrs to a pack of individuals ruining this country on the backs of the real workers by bringing back contracts to sign for the rite to work and unions banned from standing up for our rites. as for us pensioners we stand to loose some of our pension. if you haven't voted yet consider this libs have never given the workers any thing nor have they given the pensions any thing like labor does. have a nice day .
    Pass the Ductape
    6th Sep 2013
    6:44am
    Hmmmm - it sounds good AlbertC but with all due respect, consider that if there was anything left to give after a Labour Government has finished tinkering with the system, then perhaps an alternative party like the Libs might well be disposed to being a little more generous. Instead - and generally after a Labour Government has been in power for some time, the cupboard is left bare so austere measures are required to be put into place to help build up the bank balance of the nation once again. One way to do this is to favour business establishments and their owners to a greater degree. Doing this encourages business people to forge ahead with new innovations and investment procedures which can allow them to employ more people - ultimately he workers..... Everyone wins, but it's a slow process.

    The workers, left to their own devices will never build a nation on their own, but combining the skills of the worker with those businesses people who have great entrepreneurial skills and a will to succeed in business - can.
    The communist experiment should surely justify this concept.
    We always seem to be forging ahead in one moment of time, then falling behind in another. Hopefully it all balances out in the end and so far, we don't seem to have done too badly. :)
    MITZY
    6th Sep 2013
    10:03am
    The majority of large EMPLOYERS are not in the business of employing people. The PEOPLE are only a means to the end. The end being, hire them when we can't manage to do without them, and fire them when we don't need them anymore. The employers don't need any encouragement to forge ahead, the indoctrinated greed projects the forge ahead. Small business employers are either very savvy and forge ahead regardless, or not at all, that's why so many small businesses fail, they go into business with not enough searching beforehand and with stars in their eyes. I've worked in large business, government, small business, even one boss/one worker establishments. Seen a lot of good things and a lot of bad things happen to good and bad people.
    All I know is that whoever wins tomorrow will make little difference to the way I live, everything I've achieved and received during my lifetime has been achieved with my own perspiration, honesty with who I worked with, input into my jobs with my employer etc. If I could see a way to make something better wherever I worked, I always endeavoured to do so. Working in a variety of different industries during my working career has always led to being able to apply something from each one of them to assist in improvement of another.
    It's a pity politicians spend most of their time in front of cameras pontificating and fluffing out their feathers instead of putting their heads down and getting on with improving the lot of "ALL AUSTRALIANS".
    heyyybob
    6th Sep 2013
    10:51am
    Yes - I walked like an 'Egyptian' all my working life also. All I asked for was 'a honest days pay for a honest days work'. 90% of the time that is what I got. I was lucky, I reckon, 'cause I KNOW a lot of Working Australians DON'T get that from their Bosses. A LOT of those who do get it only got it through the efforts of their Unions many years ago, not from the caring, nurturing employer's concern for their workers welfare. That is why I have despaired over the last decade or two of ordinary workers abandoning their Unions seduced/conned by the lure and law of individual contracts etc.
    Pass the Ductape
    9th Sep 2013
    3:25pm
    In response to Egyptian...... Following on from the argument that employers don't need workers. Well, somebody to purchase whatever it is the employer produces and in that respect, if no-one is employed, then the money go-round slows down and eventually stops...... So employers had best hope that not too many of them are contemplating cutting out the worker altogether! Machines/automation - as far as I know - don't need, and don't spend any money. But maybe I'm missing something?
    Pass the Ductape
    9th Sep 2013
    3:29pm
    Hey! Somebody pinched my 'they need' from my second sentence.
    MiningMagnet
    11th Sep 2013
    10:11am
    aaahhhh Ductape....maaate...
    I'd normally resist comment on comments on comments but the phrase
    "workers left to their own devices will never build a nation on their own" has triggered some alarm bells for me....apart from it being demonstrably incorrect and patronising in the extreme. ....
    It seems to suggest that 'workers' lack leadership or do not recognise the value of sound leadership - an assumption neither supported by history nor valid from any perspective.
    I'm still trying to visualise true "great entrepreneurial skills and a will to succeed in business" and some examples - 'a will to succeed' in business or in life is a character trait generally ascribed to leaders and not solely 'owned' by business, so we can put that aside
    The entrepreneurial skills thing is often assigned AFTER someone has made some money and not before - I know a number of businesses that have been entrepreneurial, innovative and unsuccessful....until a larger or big business picks it up and runs with "someone else's" ideas.....who's the entrepreneur then ?
    I can cite many cases where business has been successful 'despite' their leadership simply because the 'workers' understood what was necessary and delivered it.
    Despite the best efforts of management to lead the business astray !
    I would draw your attention to recent events in the US orchestrated by "businesses people who have great entrepreneurial skills and a will to succeed in business" that lead to the GFC....it would appear that none of the businesses consulted their workers in carrying out these 'moves' and in fact when the 'workers' protested that it would ultimately fall over - they were dismissed!...hhhmmm
    History records that ALL civilisations made the transition from tribal status to 'nation' status without (necessarily) 'business' people to guide them - in fact 'transitional' leadership has generally come from the 'worker' frustrated by incompetence or inequity in the current situation.
    Genghis Khan and family springs to mind as an example - at one stage the Mongol empire stretched from Japan to Poland - coming from a tribal status to an empire in I think, around 3-4 generations (memory could be corrected here ?).
    You could probably have a look at Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini as recent 'transition' examples (is Global domination nation building ?) but they were all Jesuit trained(and unsuccessful) so I'm not too sure their wasn't an 'outlier' effect there.
    I'm really trying to picture a 'business person' that could carry the 'nation builder' mantel ....maybe some of the 'robber barons' of the US during the development of the western states...hhmm..tough call between profit incentive & nation building tho'...hahahaha
    I guess we could discuss the Churches as a 'business' style approach to 'nation building'...... tho' it's going to be a complex discussion I suspect.
    The fact that business people gravitate to the seat of power and affluence is not surprising given it is also the seat of public funds - consider how often 'business' elements of a modern society require their snouts very firmly in the public-funds trough just to survive. The largest recipient of taxpayer-funded welfare is the Business sector. Sure, we can call it 'development funds', 'drought relief', 'tax incentive' 'R&D incentive' or any other name, but government gifted funds to help a business pay its bills is still a welfare payment - just as we pay someone unemployment or single parent benefit to enable them to pay bills.
    Please don't trot out the old 'business creates employment' as a justification for welfare to business.
    If business goes broke, another springs up in its place - in fact if poorly run business goes broke half a dozen businesses (smarter, quicker, leaner) will spring up. Time and time again we see 'entrepreneurial business' protecting their market not by competition or innovation, but by using 'unconscionable' conduct to PREVENT competition (Coles, Woollies, BHP have all been in court at various times to discuss this topic).
    This act alone speaks volumes for the confidence they have in their 'expressed' business model and their capacity to 'lead'...hahahahaha
    particolor
    6th Sep 2013
    8:46am
    Boy!! She sure did get rid of that large glass of Expensive Red ..Quick Smart !!!

    6th Sep 2013
    9:07am
    FOR ME

    I was standing in a crowd one day
    And there was such a din,
    Everyone was crying out -
    'Away, and crucify him !'
    I asked of one standing near
    What means this their screaming ?
    He told me that the one on trial
    Was guilty of blaspheming
    How, I asked is this
    What is it he has done ?
    The other one replied;
    Said that, he was God's own Son.
    And as I then beheld this man
    Who had been scourged and blamed
    I could not tell just what it was
    But, I felt so ashamed.
    For I could see within his eyes
    As he looked back at me,
    One who was a loving friend
    He was no enemy.
    And on the hill called Calvary
    Outside that city gate,
    They nailed him to his heavy stake
    Then they reviled with hate.
    Now as I neared his dying form
    I saw the blood-soaked ground
    I cried, I fell down at his feet
    My Saviour I had found.
    For into his eyes again I'd looked
    And this time I did see,
    He had no need to say one word -
    'Cause he was there For Me.
    JOHN 3:16 and 1 JOHN 3:16


    Richard Merrell
    PO Box 107 Wentworth Falls NSW Australia 2782

    6th Sep 2013
    9:09am
    VOTE, VOTE, VOTE ?

    He supports the Liberals
    But you, the ALP
    Others trust The Call to Aust.
    Or back the NDP.

    Even in the church they cry
    'Vote on polling day
    pick someone as leader;
    and you can have YOUR say.'

    I'd rather not, is my reply
    I dare not vote you see;
    Should I reject the Lord -
    be yoked politicly ?'

    Well, that's my explanation
    'Jesus is Lord' I quote
    But if you love the world;
    You better Vote, Vote, Vote.

    1 Samuel 8

    Note: voting is compulsory in Australia, however I don't, and trust the Lord to deliver me.

    6th Sep 2013
    9:36am
    Drew: "All I ask is for everyone to be given equal and full access to all the facts before having to make a decision and vote. Is that too much to ask?"

    No but we should DEMAND not ask. No matter what side does it, we the voting public are being wronged and they know it. We need to demand that this wrong be righted for all future elections. Let's demand a new law that all parties provide full disclosure at least a fortnight before Election Day.
    heyyybob
    6th Sep 2013
    10:53am
    Agree.
    MITZY
    6th Sep 2013
    10:14am
    Hi Robiconda: It's the "self, me, me, me," thing, collectively as a "Party" and selectively as an "Individual".
    For this to happen we would have to have a referendum and alter the constitution, I think?
    Neither major party would give away an advantage of not putting all the facts on the table.
    Having everything on the table say 10 working days before election date would be excellent.
    heyyybob
    6th Sep 2013
    10:54am
    Absolutely.
    Jackie
    6th Sep 2013
    10:26am
    Now so many vote by post, and Rupert Murdoch has such a hold on the media, someone WHO IS GAME? should ensure that the pollies have to provide a certain level of "costings" re their stated polices, and I would say ONE MONTH before election day would be fair and reasonable, so everyone has time to digest, plus discuss with others, the ramifications. This 48 hr notice is downright devious and insulting. Eliminate it !
    heyyybob
    6th Sep 2013
    10:54am
    YES !
    Pass the Ductape
    6th Sep 2013
    12:19pm
    Well I'm game Jackie but I don't think they'd even contemplate listening to me!

    And guess what? I don't think they intend listening to you either!
    professori_au
    6th Sep 2013
    11:37am
    Hi Paddles, How are you?
    Don't look for any deep reasoning for the au on the end of professori.
    It is justn a convenience. I was nicknamed professore by the Italian community in appreciation for the help I was able to give. They would say if you have a problem go to Professore and he will help. I liked the thought and decided to use it as a nickname on the web, but:( it was already taken and professori_au was the only option. I thought, well I am an aussie so it will do. The only problem I could see is that I understand professori is the plural form of professore. I assure you I am still one person:) So you see the expaknation is a simple one, Cheers
    Kwacha
    6th Sep 2013
    1:14pm
    Wonderful news from Liberals yesterday about cutting Foreign Aid, its about Charity beginning at home first. Most of us feel, Labour lost a lot of credibility by not managing on a 480 billion budget, getting the Country into debt by raising a loan for another 400,000 billion and still raising money from everything possible from flood levy and carbon taxes- constantly contradicting themselves and changes direction midpath- finally not looking after our aged care by reducing their budget but yet managed to find borrowed funds which the tax payer has to repay for Foreign Aid, having worked in Africa, there is truth in the saying that Foreign Aid is money taken from the benefits for the Poor in a rich country, which ends up in the hands of the Rich in a Poor country. They also found additional funding for their refugee programm for what they now admit is economic asylym seekers. that is 840 Billion dollars and we are a population of 23 million - do the maths!!! Suddenly near election day they do an about turn about the Boats, etc ..who do you think could possibly believe they wont turn around again. Nobody..the party has lost credibility and only has favour amongst those with no interest that the Country is now in debt - Greens are not so much enviromentalist but Socialists . we really need a party that takes a firm stance on protecting Australians interest and one who keeps their word.

    6th Sep 2013
    9:34pm
    Cut Foreign Aid and give some to the pensioners instead, charity begins at home.
    surfer
    8th Sep 2013
    11:23am
    I think they will have to look into the corruption that has been going on re the foreign aid. Now we have an honest gvt, a full enquiry is needed. Make your hair stand on end. Lots of billions missing. I wonder where it has all gone. Ask krudd before he shuffles off to Buffalo.
    MiningMagnet
    8th Sep 2013
    5:00pm
    Should I just stop asking you about the bible altogether PIXAPD ?
    surfer
    9th Sep 2013
    11:59am
    MM You should ask Krudd about those things, you might be able to help him as he seems very mixed up. Dose'nt know if he is Arthur or Martha. Needs a check up to find out. I think he had a spiritual awakeining so now likes same sex marriage. Please help the pathetic little it.
    professori_au
    9th Sep 2013
    10:41am
    On election day I was in a quandary. The present government is a corporation resisted in the USA; is a foreign power as a result and not the lawful government, which is we, the sovereign people. To vote under the present system is to vote for any politician that is giving allegiance to a foreign power.
    My solution was to go and write on each paper... As I am neither a director or shareholder of this corporation I am ineligible to vote.
    I believe that anyone who is fined for not voting would have the right to argue their ineligibility to vote and that the fine is illegal. I have already challenged the AEC on this matter, asking them to show where their authority comes from to support an invalid government. I have argued that the taxpayer funds that were allocated to promote the local government as a third tier of government, in particular such a biased promotion, should be returned to Consolidated revenue. It is against the Consitution for Parliament to assign public monies for such a purpose. I guess this should apply to all of those "councils" that have made a "voluntary contribution" to support the yes vote should have that money returned as the referendum did not process, hence, unless this is done then parliament could face potential allegations of extortion or embezzlement of the people's money.
    Pass the Ductape
    9th Sep 2013
    3:11pm
    Good luck!

    9th Sep 2013
    6:52pm
    Best thing about result ....Rudd is no longer PM ...don't have to put up with old sticky lips on the TV every darn night surrounded by school kids......and fingers crossed he will leave politics all together...his days in the limelight are over. First stop should be a psychiatrist...or maybe his wife can give him a free consultation.
    professori_au
    9th Sep 2013
    7:17pm
    Response fro AEC is that it acts under the Commonwealth Constitution 1901.
    Does it? Then why does it support the false 1975 Victorian Constitution and the equally false Local Government Act 1989.
    I suspect it does not really know who it works for.

    Correction in my last comment resisted should have been registered.

    Abbott like Howard believes he has a Mandate. I would disagree. He received votes because Labour failed to listen tot the people and not having any alternative Abbot got it by default. Look at how many parties were voted for. My hope is that the Libs do not get control of the Senate and that the Senate acts as the Senate should, e.g. a house of review.


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