24th Jan 2019
Indigenous people ‘brutalised’ from 26 January: Kennett
Author: Janelle Ward
Indigenous people ‘brutalised’ from 26 January: Kennett

The Australia Day debate refuses to go away and each year the furore over the date seems to get louder and attract more support from influential voices.

The latest to speak his mind is former Victorian premier and beyondblue founder Jeff Kennett. He believes that retaining 26 January will “forever put a white line between us and our first peoples”.

“We came here to settle, we formed a colony … as we spread that colony, we dispossessed the First People,” he told The Australian.

“For many in the community, (26 January) represents the day they were dispossessed and brutalised. I agree with them.”

Mr Kennett’s views come as Prime Minister Scott Morrison was savaged by critics after announcing $6.7 million in funding for a replica of Captain Cook’s ship, Endeavour, to circumnavigate Australia.

“That’ll be great for tourism and it will also be a great opportunity just to talk about our history – the view from the shore, the view from the ship – and very much understanding those two stories,” Mr Morrison said.

Australia Day, 26 January, marks the arrival of the First Fleet at Port Jackson in Sydney in 1788 and has been a public holiday since 1935. Unlike the Anzac Day public holiday, which is always on 25 April, the Australia Day holiday is the following Monday – another bone of contention for Mr Kennett.

“If Australia Day is going to mean anything, whatever day, there shouldn’t be a day in lieu, which indicates to me we’re not serious.” he said.

Mr Kennett said he had changed his mind about the significance of Australia Day after spending time at The Torch, an organisation that aims to reduce the rate of reoffending by indigenous Australians.

“For some time now, I have been increasingly worried that we do not do enough in this country to recognise our first people,” he said. “They are important, they are special and they should be recognised as such.”

Mt Kennett’s suggestion for a new date is 1 January.

“It is a day on which everyone can celebrate, no one is disadvantaged,” he said. “We can reflect on the past and be optimistic.”

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has ruled out changing the date for Australia Day if Labor succeeds at this year’s federal election and the Government is also sticking with 26 January, as well as insisting that councils hold citizenship ceremonies only on that date.

Mr Kennett is asking the majority of Australians who say they want to keep 26 January to show the same generosity they displayed in the same-sex marriage vote.

“I’m asking the 75 per cent of the Australian population, who is said to support Australia Day as 26 January, to understand the intellectual strength of my argument.” he said.

“And to recognise if we continue to support that date, we will forever put a white line between us and our first peoples.”

Others suggestions for alternative dates include 27 May – the day in 1967 when a referendum overwhelmingly voted to include Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders in the census; the third Monday in February, because it has no links to anything, and any other date because, as a young girl wrote in a letter to the Government: “I think that Australia Day should be celebrated on a different day because it’s the day we stole Australia from the Aboriginal people. It's a day for the Aboriginal people to feel sad and I don't think that's right. It's like celebrating because we killed lots and lots of Aboriginal people.”

Are you convinced we should stick with 26 January or respect the calls from many indigenous Australians to change the date?

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    COMMENTS

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    andromeda143
    24th Jan 2019
    10:28am
    It is about time we showed some sensitivity and some real love towards our indigenous community. It would not hurt us to move the date to a mutually acceptable one and we might gain some desperately needed goodwill from them.
    Sen.Cit.89
    24th Jan 2019
    11:48am
    As usual as in many, many aspects of life, only negative journalism gets attention. Have you also considered all the benefits that the settlers brought to the native Aboriginals?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:21pm
    What has showing sensitivity to them go to do with Australia Day? How about they show some sensitivity to us as well?

    Or is it just another one of those one-sided terms, like 'respect', 'abuse', 'racism' ....

    White people live here, too, you know......
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:26pm
    I don't think it is negative journalism SC89, it is positive to discuss the changing of the date.
    Trebor, I am surprised you don't agree to change the date, what does it matter to you?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:16pm
    If that is the case - why does it matter to anyone else? Changing the date or the name won't change the demands for more and more.

    This was never an issue until a very few decided to make it an issue and went on a propaganda rampage.

    Lines have to be drawn somewhere, and this country has been going downhill since it started catering to demands.

    It's time to say NO!
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:26pm
    Yes it is time to say NO more celebrating Australia day until it is changed. We don't celebrate the Queens birthday on her birthday do we?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    3:54pm
    I agree Trebor. We've given in and given and given in and given and given in and given and apologised and made reparation and NOTHING is ever enough. White Australians haven't lived in rose gardens either. Went to war to defend this country. Lived through all kinds of injustices and wrongs and torment and crisis and natural disaster. It's part of life. And many suffered hideous discrimination because of financial or social status, disability, etc.

    Aboriginals have a long list of days allocated for their celebrations and remembrances. Some of them are offensive to some whites for various reasons. Leave Australia Day as it is. It was NOT a day of mass massacres or torment of Indigenous. It was merely a day that events of significance happened for this nation. Integration requires BOTH sides to give a little and show respect.

    Time to put history where it belongs and move forward together, and that means an END to the endless accusations and demands and reverse discrimination. The Indigenous claim to want equality. Then let's have EQUALITY. Not superior rights for them based on often flaky claims of past wrongs - because a lot of them DIDN'T suffer much at all but have enjoyed great benefits from their Indigenous status. In fact, people with a tiny, tiny shred of Aboriginal blood are racing to declare their Indigenous status for the free fishing license and superior access to legal help, education, welfare, etc. etc. etc.

    Frankly, I'm sick of the BS. American Indians and Negroes suffered discrimination and persecution and massacre, but they are getting on with life proudly and positively, NOT whinging constantly over trivia and demanding the nation change EVERYTHING that non-Indigenous value.

    We have millions who were descended from immigrants and had nothing to do with any wrongs against Indigenous Australians. We have millions who are descended from convicts who suffered equal persecution and injustice. Why is everything always about indulging ONE minority that the expense of everyone else?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    4:00pm
    Why? No substantial reason has yet been offered.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    4:04pm
    I just don't get why OGR, Trebor and others are so against changing the date, this has nothing to do with other issues or days, just simply change the day that started the decline of Indigenous people, a little respect goes a long way, no big deal to change a day for a lot of people, but will mean so much to those who want it changed. We certainly are not having a holiday on the day every year, it changes all the time, so no big deal to make it another day and the reasons behind the celebration.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:30pm
    Who said it started the 'decline' of Indigenous people? For most, it started a better way of life by far. How many would like to go back to hunting and foraging? Take away their Centrelink benefit and see if they don't scream! Take away their rights to profit from the mines and tourist attractions WE built. They've been wronged in many ways, and that's sad. But we've done enormous good for them in other ways.

    If we hadn't come, and subsequently defended this country, there probably would be no 'Indigenous'. The Japs would have annihilated them completely.

    And anyway, I am Indigenous. It means 'originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native.' I resent them claiming exclusive rights to a term that applies to far more whites than Aboriginals. And come to that, I resent them claiming exclusive rights to the term 'stolen generation' also, because some 92,000 whites were STOLEN, but they can't use the word because it offends the 'Indigenous'. Nor can they claim compensation. Let's have some REAL equality and unity for a change.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    4:35pm
    Yes I agree real unity by changing the date to a new fresh day like Bluebird suggested Wattle Day, yes we can't go back and yes they do not want to go back to hunting or fishing because the land has been poisoned and destroyed too much for them to be able to live like that, plus they don't have the access to the whole of Australia, so your arguments are not valid for this day and age.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:29pm
    I don't get why anyone is so dedicated to changing the date and so opposed to keeping it. It's a nonsense demand like children and repeating it over and over will not change anything.
    Gra
    24th Jan 2019
    10:48pm
    Most changes come about as a result of a bit of give and take from both sides but all we ever see is the indigenous population taking and taking and taking again. Australia Day should be left as it is. They have done quite well since civilisation hit these shores and it's time they stopped this invasion rubbish. They weren't invaded - if they had been they wouldn't be around today geting payouts for nothing.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    10:57pm
    Gra they were invaded, they had their land stolen, their way of life, their culture, they were moved on from different areas, and they have never ever been and will never get what they originally wanted was their land back because it is now decimated and they have lost the ability to live off the land. Don't see what it matters to change the date to suit ALL Australians, people on this site should stop throwing in other issues about the Indigenous population which have nothing to do with the Australia day change of date.
    Gra
    24th Jan 2019
    11:10pm
    musicveg you need to learn the definition of "invasion". Strange how the poeple making the most noise about changing Australia Day are those wannabe indigenous bodies. Like one of our local Aboriginal Elders said earlier in the week, it's just another day to her. The likes of Jeff Kennett and the quarter cast and lesser blood are just out to make some noise and get out of it what they can when actually they aren't entitled to anything.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    7:28am
    Musicveg, please provide statistics to support your claim of 'invasion' on Jan 26. Precisely how many ships carrying troops arrived? How many soldiers trained and ordered to initiate battle - and with whom? How far into the interior were they ordered to go and what arrangements were made to enable them to 'invade' areas beyond where they landed? What ammunition were they carrying, and in what quantity? How many deaths resulted on each side within the first few days after their arrival?

    Oh, and pray tell, what was the arrangement for the convicts who arrived in chains while the soldiers were 'invading' this new country? Were they released to assist with the invasion? Not according to history. We have evidence of them suffering incarceration, abuse, and being used as slave labour for years before some were released and given small land grants to farm and provide food for the colony. We also have evidence that some - both former convicts and free settlers - were attacked by Aboriginals with spears.

    Unfortunately, the relatively small numbers of British soldiers had guns, so they often prevailed over attackers (and over the convicts they used them against!) There were certainly instances of wrongful attack by the British soldiers, just as there have been incidents of wrongful attack (often with weapons of a very different kind - such as bureaucratic power) on millions of whites through the ages. But those wrongs DO NOT constitute 'invasion'. 'Invasion' requires a substantial, organised army sent specifically to take full possession of the land and subject the existing inhabitants to foreign rule. And it nearly happened her in WWII. We were at genuine risk of Japanese domination. And there would have been NO Aboriginals left if that had happened. So maybe they should decide to make Jan 26 a celebration of the fact that British came here and therefore there was an army to defend them in WWII?

    Maybe instead of wailing about the British 'invasion' (that never happened), they should contemplate the possibilities if the British hadn't arrived here on Jan 26. If other nations had sent armies to dominate. Because it's highly UNLIKELY that the land would have been left to the existing population for long. The Dutch had sent explorers. And the French. The Japs certainly wanted Australia - though a little later in time. There were other nations looking for land to claim. Do you really think those other nations would have integrated into the existing Aboriginal communities peacefully? Get real!
    maxchugg
    27th Jan 2019
    7:28pm
    Our local newspaper doesn't allow any non-leftist letters to the editor, hence I was unable to publicly ask those who are so opposed to Australia Day to name one country on the planet which was not "invaded" to use their own terminology. Nor was I able to ask why it is that hostility to Australia Day only came into prominence after the mid 1970s.

    The Mabo principle decreed that rights to aboriginal land would not be available unless there was an ongoing association with that land, yet in Tasmania one prominent "aborigine" has openly stated that he is 1/64th aboriginal, "but don't call me white, I'm black. Don't call me part-Aborigine, I'm Aborigine." ("In Tasmania" by NIcholas Shakespeare, p 198-199). So if Mabo is applicable to land, why not to aboriginality as well? Why are Truganini's claims to be the last of her people now treated with contempt after being respected for over a century?

    Members of the Tasmanian Aboriginal Centre regularly complain about what was done to "us", how "our" land was stolen, yet most of these are descendants of sealers who, according to the diaries of George Augustus Robinson, abducted aboriginal women into slavery where they were subjected to the most extreme forms of brutality and in such numbers that eventually there were almost certainly no Aboriginal women of child bearing age within the north east of Tasmania. One of these women, Jumbo, was abducted when she was a little girl, and was one of a number of Aboriginal women who murdered their own children when the father of the child was one of their slave master sealers. (Friendly Mission, P 333-334; 2nd edition, 2008).

    The primary objective of those who wish to inflict the rules of the present upon the settlers of the past is claimed to be promoting reconciliation but in reality has the very opposite objective, as is clearly indicated in a comment from the Aboriginal Provisional Government: "Equality was never our aim, we are a status people whose rights go beyond equality. (http://apg.org.au/resources/APG%201.pdf)
    4b2
    24th Jan 2019
    10:30am
    I agree with Jeff Kennet, although I would put the firs fleet in another context. This was the first arrival of boat people to Australia. The British in their pompus and white is right attitude claimed the territory as their own and claimed Captain Cook discovered Australia although people had been living here for more than 40,00 years. Dutch and French explorers also bumped into Australia also prior to Cookie but dont let facts get in the way of British pomp and rightness.
    Sen.Cit.89
    24th Jan 2019
    11:52am
    Named 4b2 yes, a sizing of wood. With a comment like yours "thick as two short planks"
    Maybe a fair assessment
    Jennie
    24th Jan 2019
    12:14pm
    4b2 I agree with you. I was born British and am proud to be an Australian citizen. However I feel shamed at the actions of my British ancestors. And not just with respect to Australia.
    I'm sorry you have received a rude comment above.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:22pm
    Be ashamed then - now move on - it's 200+ years ago....
    AutumnOz
    24th Jan 2019
    1:44pm
    No 4b2 the first fleet was not the first arrival of boat people. No-one knows who actually arrived first even the dreamtime doesn't answer that question.
    If Australia Day was a celebration of the first English settlement arrival - they landed at Botany Bay on 24th January and went on to Port Jackson on 26th January so take your choice as to the date Australia Day should happen.
    Does the time spent improving the lives of Australians between 1788 and 2018 mean nothing has been achieved?
    Boomah52
    24th Jan 2019
    4:22pm
    4b2 Genghis Khan awoke from a dream resulting in speading the Mongolian way over the largest land mass empire even including parts of Europe. To spread fear some captured cities populations were killed. Like to kill 20000... 2000 soldiers would butcher 10 each. Later the Yuan Dynasty of China they were unsucessful in invading the likes of Japan and Java (next Aust lol?) Pomp and ceremony? Please read up on the Forbidden City...
    KSS
    24th Jan 2019
    7:18pm
    So its pot shots at the British now 4b2. The 26 Jan marks the day everything changed. For everyone; the prisoners, the sailors, the free settlers, the warders AND the Aboriginal peoples already here.

    Why can't we do both things on the same day, acknowledgement of the changes for the Aboriginal people in the morning starting with commemorative ceremonies at day break through to noon, then a celebration of what Australia has become for ALL Australians from wherever they came, whenever they came in the afternoon/evening?


    That way both sides get acknowledgement and there is no need to change the date.
    Gra
    24th Jan 2019
    10:52pm
    4b2 they may have been here for 40,000 years BUT they weren't the first occupants, they just did a good job of wiping the original inhabitants out. (Now that is an invasion). Why can't the indigenous population celebrate the day as an awakening day, the day they were liberated from the Stone Age.
    Wazaa
    24th Jan 2019
    10:40am
    Keep January 26 as Australia Day. Changing to another date will do nothing, the detractors will still continue ... only the total elimination of Australia Day will please them.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:29pm
    ... and the abolition of Australia Day will do not one thing for them.....

    Guess I'll have to go back to what I said - I'll buy two flags.. the Australian flag and the Aboriginal 'flag' - if the Aboriginals play up - I'll burn one... guess which one...
    Troubadour
    24th Jan 2019
    1:26pm
    You got that right Wazaa!
    KSS
    24th Jan 2019
    7:20pm
    Only total elimination of WHITE Australian males will appease them Wazaa.
    SFR
    25th Jan 2019
    4:32pm
    April 1 sounds good to me.
    Paicey58
    24th Jan 2019
    11:18am
    If I thought it would help change anything I would be all for a different date. The sad fact is it won’t. The small minority of agitators will then move onto the next thing they want changed to try and make themselves feel better. It won’t make a bit of difference to the way aboriginal people live in this country. Only they can change themselves changing the past won’t do it for you.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:30pm
    Small minority, I think you will find it is not a small minority that want the change anymore and why call them agitators? Indigenous people do not receive the same treatment and never have in this country so your comment about them changing themselves is ignorant. They do not get the same opportunities to help themselves.
    Rae
    24th Jan 2019
    2:56pm
    I agree musicveg and it's a disgrace. $46 000 per capita is spent on Aboriginal welfare and obviously providers are ripping the system off. The whole business needs to be examined and sorted out.

    I can't see the point in Australia Day until we fix all the divisions that beset us now.
    Gra
    24th Jan 2019
    11:03pm
    musicveg I think you need to aquaint yourself with the facts instead of just living in a dream. They have every opportunity to help themselves but while there are people like you who don't have a clue and the government keeps throwing money at them nothing will change. Just one example for you, a few years back we wre having trouble with indigenous kids running rampant in our street when they should have been in school. A complaint was made to Department of Education who in turn arranged a meeting with the local Aboriginal Community Liaison Officers. It was claimed these kids had no means of getting to school and all the rest - didn't have uniforms etc. Other kids in the same area had no problem catching the school buses that were provided, their parents were able to buy uniforms with the funding provided. Department of Education then provided a special bus and arranged for new uniforms and school gear for these indigenous kids. It lasted all of two weeks where these kids weren't running the streets then it was back to their old ways - they just weren't interested - either the kids or their parents.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    11:23pm
    I have been following this issue of changing the date for years and I know the reason why we should change it, your example of a few Indigenous kids running rampant has nothing to do with it.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    7:10am
    The reason for wanting to change it is that a few radicals have succeeded in changing the world view of history in order to milk the public purse unfairly. We now can't even claim to be natives of our own country! The selfishness and reverse racism has gone too far and it's going to do great harm. There will be racial hatred because of unfairness and lack of respect for democratic process, and the so-called 'Indigenous' (who have no right to claim exclusivity of that title) will suffer most.

    Aboriginals were NOT the first inhabitants. And they are NOT native to Australia. They migrated from the area around India. They were uncivilized, struggling not to starve, and had very limited skills, culture or tradition. And yes, this country was taken over by British migration (not 'invasion' - there was no huge army sent to decimate the existing population, and no takeover war!). And the migration process sadly included abuse of many - INCLUDING British convicts and free settlers, and more recent immigrants from other lands. That's part of world history. It happened everywhere - mostly by genuine invasions that were deliberately planned and had far worse consequences than settling of Australia.

    Get over it! We have done more for the Aboriginal population than any other nation in the world has done for their minorities, and we continue to indulge them, despite some of them spitting in our faces, exploiting the system, and doing nothing to help themselves. Many, however, are far better educated and enjoying far better lives than much of the white population. They have access to educational advantages, housing, health support, free legal services, welfare, preferential employment conditions, preferential funding to start businesses, preferential grant and assistance programs to excel in many creative and arts fields... the list goes on and on an on. And vast numbers appreciate these benefits. Those who don't, line up at Centrelink every fortnight, and heaven forbid we deny them their handout! They do NOT want to turn back the clock. They are loving that they share the huge profits from mines and tourist attractions built by whites.

    How about we talk about some compensation/reparation for the harm some of them have caused to white Australians. I have a friend who was paying off a nice modest home in a working class suburb that was taken over for 'Indigenous housing integration'. The government bought every second house and GAVE to Aboriginals at no cost. My friend had two little girls and his aging parents living with him. The drunkenness, racial abuse, and filth became intolerable. He sold his house for 1/3rd the purchase price and moved, after living in hell for 2 years. His little girls couldn't go out of the house - not even into their own yard - without having beer bottles and cans thrown at them and being subjected to screamed abuse including vile language. But you know what? The Aboriginal men were walking around with their wallets bulging - thousands of dollars of share proceeds from a mine they had claimed was built on 'their land'.

    I also have a friend who is Aboriginal. Many years ago, he performed a valuable service for us free of charge, helping us build a home. Why? Because HE thought it patently unfair that he (who came from a relatively comfortable working class family and suffered no real disadvantage) should be GIVEN an expensive machine and a year's income to start a business and we, who suffered far more disadvantage, got NOTHING to help us. His healthy little girl went to preschool free, with free transport back and forth and a free hot lunch. Our special needs child was driven to preschool by me, with a lunch packed by me, and I took a second job to pay the huge fees at an exclusive private preschool because no other would take a child with her needs. (BTW. We remain close friends with that family. They are lovely, proud, hard-working people who are grateful for what this country has given them.)

    Another Aboriginal family lived next door to my relatives for years. Beautiful family. Hard working and honest. The youngest boy moved away when he grew up but whenever he came back to visit he would always visit my relatives. One day, one asked him if he ever suffered discrimination. His reply 'Oh yes! Sure do. Wonderful, isn't it? Never would have got the job of editor of country newspaper otherwise. There were several whities far better qualified and more suited to the job!"

    Let's put this in perspective, shall we? There is much in our history - as in the history of every country - that gives cause for sorrow and regret. Blame and hatred will only cause more grief. We also have much to be proud of. And a celebration of the day British arrived in Australia has NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO WITH 'invasions' or 'genocide'. It's a day that brought many benefits to the existing population. We also celebrate ANZAC Day - a day when many Australians were killed in a very stupid and futile poorly planned endeavour. Do their descendants demand the day be cancelled or the date changed? No, because they have the respect and courtesy to acknowledge why we celebrate the day and to take a broader view of its meaning.

    Australia Day is a day for celebration of what Australia has become and the good things we, as a society, have achieved. And all this BS about changing the date is doing nothing more than aiding the cause of those who seek to undermine efforts toward greater unity and social justice.
    SFR
    27th Jan 2019
    8:54am
    Thousands of Indigenous people are estimated to have been murdered in 500 massacres across Australia from European settlement in 1788 until the mid-20th century. It's a pity we don't teach this part of Australian History.
    History is what it is, it can't be changed, but at least it can be acknowledged and then we develop some understanding why this day creates such division.
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    1:41pm
    Yes SFR, there were estimates of over 250,000 Indigenous living in Australia until the massacres which reduced them to about 60,000. Many were put into slavery or very minimal wages even up until the 1970's where they were never paid.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    1st Feb 2019
    10:08am
    So were many whites, musicveg, only nobody is acknowledging that fact. We would all do better to stop harping on race and start focusing on fixing disadvantage and inequity across the board.
    JJ
    24th Jan 2019
    11:18am
    Definitely needs to be changed. I'm not convinced that January 1st would be a good choice - it's a public holiday already, and many people would be in recovery mode from the night before. Australia Day should ideally commemorate something significant, but I'm not sure what. Certainly not the day of arrival, that is too divisive. It's like telling the indigenous people to suck it up. Very rude and sadly lacking in empathy.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:23pm
    So whitey should suck it up instead, just because they choose to be offended and make a song and dance about it?

    This was not an issue until the song and dance began....
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:31pm
    Trebor it has always been an issue it is the younger ones who are finding a voice now to speak out and get things changed for the better. Get with the program Trebor, I would expect more of you.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:18pm
    Never heard of it being an 'issue' until recent times - and the young ones are entitled to their views, but that is all.

    So - when did it start being an 'issue?

    Anyone?
    The Other Judith
    24th Jan 2019
    3:54pm
    Agree there are some downsides to 1 January (sleep-ins and hangovers) but it is the day the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act was proclaimed in 1901, Edmund Barton was sworn in as interim Prime Minister and we truly became a nation so that makes a lot of sense. We could have an extra public holiday over the Christmas/New Year period which would suit most workers.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    3:57pm
    I know a lot of Aboriginals. Relatives married into Aboriginal families. Relatives adopted Aboriginal children. NOT ONE OF THEM EVER OBJECTED TO AUSTRALIA DAY AND NOT ONE AGREES WITH THE MOVE TO CHANGE THE DATE. And they all report that they can't identify a single Aboriginal, outside the political activists, who agree with the demand.
    Susanb
    24th Jan 2019
    11:30am
    Yes it is time to change the date. Good on Jeff Kennett for speaking out. It is not ok to celebrate on a day that is so painful for so many - just plain wrong, not to mention appalling manners!
    SFR
    25th Jan 2019
    4:32pm
    Please explain?
    Jansview
    24th Jan 2019
    11:49am
    Jeff Kennet needs to pull his head in and stop stirring the pot. Australia Day should remain on January 26. Sure, the First Fleet arrived but where would the indigenous people be today if they hadn’t. Would they have built infrastructure, schools, universities to learn and develop.... no. Should we have a ‘Sorry Day’ for the convicts who were bought here to work in chains, starved, beaten and yes, killed, to build this nation we love. Should we have a “Sorry Day” for the hundreds of babies who were snatched from the loins of their single Mothers in Britain (because they were unfit, sinners, not worthy of their own children) and bought to Australia, many of whom were never to know their heritage. What difference does it make what day, the 1st, the 26th, whatever. Sure, I don’t deny the original people of this land suffered at the hands of the white arrivals. Man’s inhumanity to man. It never ends, never will. The first white settlers, the convicts, suffered too, inconceivable cruelty. A few pompous upstarts bought them here, yet here we are 230 years later still apologising, countless generations later. Enjoy the day, celebrate how far this nation has come, and be proud to be an Australian.
    Sen.Cit.89
    24th Jan 2019
    11:59am
    I'm on my feet applauding you Jan' Your comments deserve to be heard especially by the disrupters of our wonderful Australia. I wish that I'd written your comment.
    Knows-a-lot
    24th Jan 2019
    1:09pm
    Bravo Jan! I couldn't agree more.
    Troubadour
    24th Jan 2019
    1:32pm
    Yes Jan thanks for your sensible comment - many do forget that the
    'early settlers' most of them convicts suffered so much deprivation and
    yet helped get this great Nation to where it is today - and many gave
    the Indigenous people education and help to build a better life for themselves.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:35pm
    If Australia was never invaded the indigenous people would have continued on as they had always done for over 40,000 years, they were in a much better place before they were invaded, you need to see how diverse they were, how many there were, how many languages and how they lived in harmony with the land, get educated of the true facts,your comments are ignorant and selfish.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:20pm
    .. instead they get to live in houses and have boats with outboards and such and can enjoy sustenance money even when jobless, far better healthcare, protection of law, and so forth.

    (Yeah,.. Yeah! But what have the Romans ever done for US, eh?)
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    8:01pm
    If they were in a better place before, musicveg, why don't they go back. Plenty of land available in remote areas. Oh no! No Centrelink offices! No tourist meccas and mines doling out profit to them for the use of 'their' land. Can't abandon all those nice BENEFITS we have bestowed on them.
    Ted Wards
    24th Jan 2019
    11:56am
    When are we going to move on from the past? What occurred back then was sad and despicable but how can we move forward if we are always looking back? To me we can never do anything to change the past, even the sorry day is just a token gesture. How about we change the focus of the day instead to celebrate the best place to live on earth and celebrating who we are as a population, every section of the population, not matter what your country or origin, race etc. Let's really be real some may feel sad but has that ever stopped you doing something in the past on Australia Day, no it hasn't. BTW there are a large section of the indigenous population who do celebrate Australia Day because of the benefits it has brought the last several generations. HOw many of you decrying Australia Day actually know any indigenous people and have you actually asked any of them, even random strangers how they feel, or its it this superimposed guilt you are feeling? Why are you feeling guilty? Also why are you still living here then if you feel so bad about what happened? Let's get real.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:37pm
    It is not about staying in the past it is about moving forward, the day celebrates the landing of the British and nothing more, that in itself does not include everyone in Australia, we need a true day that celebrates ALL Australians.
    AutumnOz
    24th Jan 2019
    1:55pm
    Ted Wards, yes their are a lot of the indigenous polulation especially the younger ones who celebrate Australia Day and will continue to do so. We only hear from those trying to make trouble and seldom from those of whatever background who have good reason to be thankful for the life they are now living.

    musicveg, Australia Day is not primarily about the landing at Port Jackson by the British sailors, soldiers and also their hundreds of prisoners kept in chains.
    Australia Day is supposed to celebrate the lives of ALL Australians, the reason it fails is because so many splinter groups are refusing to accept that we are all Australian regardless of where our ancestors of 10, 100 or 200 or more years ago were born.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    2:02pm
    AutumnOz: Then why is the date not changed to suit ALL Australians?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:22pm
    .. because a recent poll said 90% didn't want to.....

    As I said elsewhere, Australia Day is a celebration for ALL Australians - those who choose not to be part of it are welcome to go their own way... in peace!

    'peace', like 'racism', violence and so forth - is a two way street.
    travelman
    24th Jan 2019
    11:57am
    I did not think Jeff Kennett would get himself involved in such a ridiculous debate in view of the PM''s $6.7 million Endeavor fiasco, a Morrison folly and an insult to the first people. All his behaviour at this present time shows the people of Australia he is just 'thinner' replica of that other idiot Clive Palmer. Prime Minister, sack your advisors, they are certainly no help to you and start considering the REAL NEEDS and the PROMISES that were made to the first people and we will give 'plaudits' instead of the 'brickbats' that we are currently giving you.
    Knows-a-lot
    24th Jan 2019
    1:11pm
    Well, Kennett is a Lieberal, and they're not known for their intelligence.
    Triss
    24th Jan 2019
    12:11pm
    Indigenous people are taxpayers too, Jeff. How about you stop brutalising them. Charging taxpayers $200,000 plus for renting an office belonging to your wife, pension and perks costing millions... How many billions of dollars of state owned assets did you sell whilst in office?
    Perhaps you think that’s all been forgotten? No.
    Triss
    24th Jan 2019
    12:20pm
    As Jeff is so concerned about Indigenous brutalisation I’ll be waiting for him to start the ball rolling by giving up all his pension and perks to show how committed he is.
    KSS
    24th Jan 2019
    7:34pm
    There are approximately 250,000 (give or take) people who identify as Aboriginal in Australia. Compare that with more recent arrivals like the Chinese (1.2 million) and Indian people (around 300,000+) and around 400,000 Greeks.

    I wonder how many Aboriginal people actually pay tax? Mr Mundine has often stated the best welfare is a job but there are more Aboriginal people who take 'sit down money' rather than work. Often they are their own worst enemy, but it is much easier to blame White Australia for their failings. In that they are just like white Australian who outsource personal responsibility to 'others'.

    So yes some Aboriginal people ARE taxpayers but they are not the major tax payers of Australia.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:20pm
    What "Australia Day debate"?

    The only debate is in the eyes of those who choose to be offended by it and make a song and dance about a national day of celebration rather than doing something positive about their own issues.

    Already argued this one elsewhere.....

    Attacking Australia Day is not going to do one thing for anyone.... in any way. It is the day the modern nation began, and as such is worthy of celebration - any others have no restrictions placed on their cel34brating their own personal interests.

    If Aboriginals want to celebrate nation spear invention day - go for it.... I don't see Whitey lining up to stop YOU!
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:39pm
    No it is not the start of modern nation it is the start of the decimation of the indigenous culture, how come you don't get it Trebor, we need a day that celebrates ALL Australians not just the British landing day.
    Rae
    24th Jan 2019
    3:13pm
    Maybe a Thanksgiving Day on the 26th for the descendants of those first poor souls shipped here for not much more than stealing to prevent starvation.It doesn't have to be a Public Holiday. Everyone else can go to work.

    Then hold Australia Day on the day of Federation when we supposedly grew up and came together as one Nation.
    The Aboriginals people have Sorry Day and their week long celebrations as well as traditional days in same areas. The Muslims, Chinese etc all have their days.

    The first settler's descendent should not have to feel guilty for past wrongs. Nobody else has to. It's blatant racism.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:23pm
    There are more Aboriginals alive today than there were then...... argument shot down. You mean the Aboriginals don't benefit from all the good things about Whitey's civilisation? Argument shot down...

    Rae - even if you made it Thanksgiving Day, that would not stop the complaints and demands.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:29pm
    Where did you get your figures from Trebor? And stop calling them Aboriginals. Either first peoples or Indigenous is preferable.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:36pm
    Title is irrelevant except to those who seek 'high moral ground' as a substitute for discussion.

    Call them what you like... a rose by any other name is still a rose... even Lionel Rose...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    2:54pm
    They were NOT the first people, musicveg, and all native-born Australians are Indigenous. They are Aboriginals. Those other terms do NOT identify them.
    Chris B T
    24th Jan 2019
    12:21pm
    29 of Feb would be good or 30 of Feb which doesn't exist.
    No date would be satisfactory.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:25pm
    **rolls eyes**
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:23pm
    For the whinging activists, no date would be satisfactory. And if any alternate date were agreed on, they'd move on to the next whinge and unreasonable demand.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:28pm
    Kennett is obviously suffering from Post Politician Attention Deficit Syndrome.... with a hefty addition of Relevance Deficiency and Public Adulation Deprivation ....

    Politicians past should hide their heads in shame for what they've done to this nation in the name of their 'equality', and should start by paying back their unwarranted perks for life.... then they can all STFU!
    mogo51
    24th Jan 2019
    12:37pm
    Right there Trebor.
    mogo51
    24th Jan 2019
    12:29pm
    What a load of rubbish, Australia Day marks the day the First Fleet arrived and colonisation commenced. What about the other countries of the world that have been colonised or conquered, I would list them but it is most of the world.
    As far as indigenous people go, they already get everything handed to them on a plate. Many have done very well in this country and I congratulate them. Far more have done nothing other than sit with their hand out and the Government obliges.
    It is about time Aboriginal people started contributing more and asking less. But it wont happen whilst ever there are bleeding hearts like andromeda143 - I am so tired of these type of people. No wonder the country is bleeding!
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:41pm
    There is no debate... there is a one-sided rumpus of demands and insults and threats.... there is not even another 'side' engaged in any 'debate'..... most just want to get on quietly without fuss and enjoy the day...

    Nothing so see here, people... move on...
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:41pm
    I am so tired of people's ignorance, have you any idea how many Indigenous people were killed, we need to move on by changing the date so ALL Australians can celebrate together.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:25pm
    **ahem** so am I music.....

    It has nothing to do with killing Aboriginals.. it is about settlement.....

    Do not use the term 'ignorant' when people know full well what they are talking about.... respect for other's views and not ad homs, please.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:32pm
    Okay Treb, so they are aware of what they are celebrating but ignore why the Indigenous people do not want to celebrate. Because they do not want to celebrate settlement as you call it,more like stealing the land. Yes we are here now but we still need to stop celebrating stealing the land and make it one day for all.
    KSS
    24th Jan 2019
    7:38pm
    If it was an 'invasion' on 26 January then to celebrate the arrival of the First Fleet or settlement on any other day would still be a celebration of the 'invasion'. That's the emotional argument right?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:42pm
    They didn't 'own' land - they had a 'connection' with it... now they want to own everything as if it was once the way it was...

    Well - that was 231 years ago... and everyone who has bought and paid for property has a 'connection' to it... their way was simply supplanted by another way... and complaining about a national holiday is a worthless exercise.

    Are you giving your land and home back to the Aboriginals who want it? Are any of the other do-gooders like Di Natale... his lovely farm would go a long way to assuaging a few Aboriginal feelings...
    Lothario
    24th Jan 2019
    12:32pm
    Just change the date. As long so it's a permanent long weekend. Discuss with the indigenous leaders for their best idea of a date then put a few dates including the current date to the people to vote on.
    Let the people decide as a majority.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:42pm
    Why ask the minority when the majority already decided?
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    12:49pm
    Trebor, there's not been a referendum on which date people prefer so you can't say that the majority has already decided.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:58pm
    That's because there is no question to put to a referendum. It is accepted that 26th January is the day the modern nation of Australia began.... no other date fits the bill.

    It's been that way for a century or more - without dissent - so why suddenly does it need any discussion just because a few don't like it?

    Let's change the Queen's birthday (Victoria) .. surely that period was the worst for the Aboriginals....

    How about Christmas since Christ wasn't born then.....

    Let's just change anything at all on demand from a tiny vocal minority. Drive on the right side of the road, work at night in most jobs, stake out a beach spot in Winter.....
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:42pm
    Some common sense comment from 1984, just change the date, then lets move on, then it will be the end of this debate that has lingered for years.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:44pm
    Oh and Trebor we already celebrate Queens Birthday on the wrong month from what the actual birthday is, so why not Australia Day? And Christmas is a religious ceremony so cannot be compared.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:26pm
    Queen's birthday is VICTORIA's birthday or close to so as to afford a PH.... It's not Liz's birthday

    **rolls eyes**

    Christmas is still a holiday - you may forfeit it as you choose....

    No need to change the date ... move on.
    WideBayMike
    24th Jan 2019
    12:33pm
    A survey regarding this popped up on Facebook yesterday. I voted No as did 90% of the people who had voted at that stage. I was neither born or educated in Australia but as far as I know Australia Day is to celebrate European settlement. You can't change that it is what happened on that day within the laws and attitudes of British class system that existed in 1788. Changing the date we celebrate Australia Day is only going to divide us and perhaps that is what the people behind this idea want to achieve.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:46pm
    You are wrong changing the date will unite not divide, we need to move on from the past and start with a new date where we celebrate Australia not European settlement (Invasions).
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:27pm
    Not - it will not musicveg.. it will give further fuel to the victim industry to demand more and other things.

    Haven't you been watching?
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:33pm
    Watching what?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:47pm
    Every time some small group demands something and keeps on and on about it - government eventually give in for a variety of reasons, principally that they see votes in it... and every time government gives in, it becomes not an end of game, but a springboard for the next and the next and the next demand.

    If you doubt me - look at the 'feminists' - 'feminists' are a minority and infused with Victimhood Disorder Syndrome - but they screeched and screeched and screeched until they got one thing after another and are now set to get well on top of men, once Short Bill gets in and starts to play them extra for taking time off - meaning they will be paid more per hour worked than men and non-parental women and will, under Labor, be pumped more and more into the best spots (without real work) - not only that, but with never-ending affirmative action starting in pre-schools now, they are rapidly taking over entire spheres of work activity and excluding men.

    Get with the program.
    WideBayMike
    25th Jan 2019
    11:42pm
    The survey I mentioned above has closed. It was run by Channel 9 Melbourne. 28,200 of us voted. 91% voted not to change the date.
    WideBayMike
    25th Jan 2019
    11:47pm
    Hey musicveg on what facts did you base your comment "changing the date will unite not divide" on?

    Instead of being a day of celebration by 91% of us would you prefer to change it to a day of division like New Zealand has?
    mogo51
    24th Jan 2019
    12:36pm
    Why can't former politicians keep their stupid moths shut. Mr. Kennett get back to your rocking chair and put a sock in it!
    Triss
    24th Jan 2019
    1:01pm
    Dead right, mogo51. Ex pollies, premiers and PMs should be neither seen nor heard. In fact there should be a special holding pen where they can be banished to sit and contemplate their sins against society.
    trood
    24th Jan 2019
    12:39pm
    Would any indigenous person have known in 1788 that it was the 26th of January? or did they pick this info up from the invaders much later. Regardless this all happened over 230 years ago so why has this become an issue now? When I was growing up in Australia from age 7 for decade after decade this date was never questioned, so why now 65 years later is this an issue, nothing is going to change history seems some indigenous people since someone said 'sorry' have developed a huge chip on their shoulders and are now enjoying and playing to the hilt the victim. Get over it , time to move on
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:47pm
    Because when you were growing up Indigenous people were too scared to speak up for many years, now the younger ones are speaking up, we cannot move on until the date is changed.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:28pm
    We have moved on - they should do the same.....
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:33pm
    No you haven't you still insist on celebrating Invasion day.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:48pm
    Never heard of it.......
    rob101
    24th Jan 2019
    12:40pm
    So Kennett who sacked 60000 public servants and borrowed $1 billion dollars to pay them out. who Privatised Gas and Electricity and Water which is why your Utilities Bills are so high,supported GST. Enabled Pokies legislation in Victoria. Ignored Country Victoria .Got the two Tunnels wrong in Melbourne is to be believed.BTW I have Aboriginies in my Family! And the current Indiginous Natives were not first here!
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:45pm
    Yes - and I have Aboriginals in MY family, too... none of them play up with this nonsense... they just get on with life, build a home and family (even the lesbian one is getting engaged), and go to work like everyone else.....

    The only reference ever heard to 'NiXXer' is in reference to me with my massive work ethic... but like Marshal Cogburn... I've grown old.....
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    12:42pm
    I really do not understand why we must celebrate the opening of a penal settlement in Port Jackson and call it Australia Day. Other states took delivery of convicts from the UK also but on different dates. Perhaps each of those states should also make a celebration on their particular dates. Too bad for those states that didn't have penal settlements, no holiday for them!

    How would it be if Australia was invaded and taken over by another country and that country then decided that the day they invaded would be known as Australia Day. Not so great hey~!

    The sooner we find another date to call Australia Day that most of us can agree on the better and then perhaps we can work out how to deal with climate change.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:49pm
    "Ummmm ... lock in a), Eddie..... "Because it was the first colony"... Yes... lock in a)....."

    "You're sure - I mean it's a million dollars up for grabs here.. and you want a)? Look - I'll let you off the hook... you can have another pick if you want."

    "I'll stick with a), thanks, Eddie!"

    "It's your funeral.... for wun millyun dullahs..... the answer is.... we'll be back after this short break......."
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    12:52pm
    It was still just a prison settlement and here in this country because the USA refused to take them any longer.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:52pm
    'we' all do agree on the established date - a few dissidents who choose to differ are not relevant........ and under no circumstances should 'we' change anything on demand from a tiny minority, no matter how out-spoken and whining they are....

    As I said - there is no 'debate' - there is a total acceptance by 98% of people of the status quo, and a few die-hards who demand it be changed to suit them ONLY. that is not a 'debate' - it is a demand by a minority - and is DISMISSED out of hand.

    If you had the same percentage demanding that we drive on the right hand side of the road - would you be equally on board?

    **rolls eyes**
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    1:03pm
    What is the relevance of what kind of settlement it was?

    That was the way it was done in those days in Olde Englande... take 'social undesirables' and ship them out en masse to a spot that was probably dangerous etc, and let them do the hard yards of colonising....

    Didn't you ever wonder why so many could be shipped out for minor offences? The Empire needed to put people out to pursue its policy of developing colonies... and you couldn't expect the well-to-do to head off to the antipodes on spec and surrounded by spear carrying natives!!

    The principal lesson from your position, fey, is that the 'lower classes' had no rights at all... they could be press-ganged into the Royal Navy or sent to prison on whim or even hanged for miniscule offences on no real evidence.....
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    1:31pm
    Trebor, I take it that you are aware that Jan 26 is also when India celebrates its Republic Day, this started in 1950 when India adopted its own Constitution, in effect its separation from the UK.

    Perhaps Australia could do the same when it comes of age and becomes a republic.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:50pm
    I agree with you fey, people would most likely not want to celebrate an invasion day if it happened now to them, lets move on and change the date.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:32pm
    We don't live in India...... no relevance.... any more than their weekly income is relevant to this nation and its people.

    It was not an invasion - it was a small settlement...even when my grandfather went to fight in the trenches, there were only four million people in Australia. when my great-great grandparents arrived here as free settlers, there were one million people in Australia... hardly an invasion.

    Let the Aboriginals and their running dogs in the victimhood industry move on - the settlement was 231 years ago....

    What would you prefer to call it? National Victimhood Day?

    Move on.....
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:35pm
    Are you counting how many Indigenous people were here before settlement? It is not about victimhood, it is about changing a day that is not right for all Australians.
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    3:49pm
    Trebor, my point about India was that 26 January was already taken as a national day and well before Australia decided in 1994 to have a public holiday to mark the opening of a penal colony by the British.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:52pm
    So... errrr... how many Aboriginals were here before settlement? Obviously from that statement they had no settlements as such, so settlement was a new thing... a relatively orderly society instead of a primitive nomadic existence.

    It matters not how many nations claim a day as their national day - OUR national day as long as I can recall has been Australia Day....

    I was born on my father's birthday - does that make me him? My son was born on the birthday of my aunt, one of my sisters, a niece of mine, and my great-grandfather.... does that make him any of them? Another niece was born on her mother's birthday - does that make them one and the same?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    12:53pm
    How are they 'brutalised' by Australia Day, Jeff? Hordes of Whitey supremacists out there rioting and beating up on and threatening Aboriginals, threatening to burn down anything Aboriginal?

    Actually - it's the other way around....
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:53pm
    They were brutalised Trebor, when thousands and thousands were killed after the British invaded, no other visitors before then killed anyone, and they were welcomed with open arms by the Indigenous but because they did not want to leave the land they had lived on for thousands of years they were killed or moved on so the British could live and grow crops to send back to England, and it still happens today but with much more subtle methods, and they are still trying to take the land for more mining by changing the native title laws.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:34pm
    What has the day of settlement got to do with the excesses of other times?

    If Aboriginals were killed off in such numbers.... why are there more today than then? the reality is that while some were killed, most were not.

    It's not just the native title laws that are being changed to facilitate rampant robber baronism and resource ripping....

    Cherry picking will not alter reality.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:57pm
    Is anyone killing Aboriginals today, here and now? Go on - tell me about deaths in custody... I am personally acquainted with two - one died of a heart problem, the other hung himself on his first night in the cells.

    Are people hunting them down in the streets and bashing them and shooting them and hanging them and poisoning their beer?

    Are there Whiteys feeding them meat laced with poison?

    I was dumped in an orphanage by my mother at 6-7 - does that mean I should hate all mothers for eternity and my children and grand-children should do so? If that happened to fall on a public holiday (I'll find out some day), does that mean I should demand and endlessly demand over and over every year until I get my way, that its name be changed to "Dumping Children Day"?

    Get Over It! There are far more important issues in this nation, here and now, than a few Aboriginals complaining about a national holiday that they choose to make an issue.
    maxchugg
    28th Jan 2019
    9:18am
    Thousands and thousands were killed - don't you think you are slightly exaggerating? Where is your evidence?

    In Tasmania a confrontation between a large number of aborigines and some of the poorest examples of British soldiers resulted in 3 - 4 Aboriginal deaths, but this figure was revised upwards until it became a massacre of around 100. The facts, we are told, are indisputable because a witness gave an account to an inquiry around 30 years after the event, yet it is practically certain that the so-called witness, Edward White, was not even in the colony at the time.

    When Michael Mansell wanted to prevent Australia Day celebrations in several press reports he described another massacre in which he accused Lt Col Paterson of being "a murderer and a racist" who "was not only present at George Town when the killings began in 1804, but ordered the killings." ("Examiner" 15/9/2003) In a letter dated 24/9/2003 Mansell gave his source for his account of the "massacre", Historical Records of Australia, 3.1, pp 606-607.

    The truth is that, according to the HRA report that Mansell used, around 80 Aborigines entered a camp occupied by 3 soldiers and after efforts had been made by the soldiers to show friendliness, in the clearest possible case of self defence, two soldiers opened fire, killing one Aborigine and wounding another. At the time Paterson was not only not present and did not order the killings as Mansell claimed, when he heard of the incident he took positive action in an attempt to protect the Aborigines.

    In another "massacre", a heavily revised story has another massacre taking place at Cape Grim in 1827 where four shepherds trapped a group of Aborigines at the edge of the sea, rushed in with guns blazing, killing 30 Aborigines and then throwing their bodies over a cliff! This occurred after the Aborigines had already learned that the guns of the soldiers were highly inaccurate and, once fired, were useless for 30 seconds.

    Of course there was conflict between the settlers and the Aborigines, J.E. Calder is definite that the spears of the Aborigines were infinitely more dangerous than the white settlers and in the skirmishes which place, the settlers always had the worst of it.
    maxchugg
    28th Jan 2019
    9:21am
    A slight amendment to my previous comment. It was the bicentennial celebrations, not Australia Day, that Mansell was opposing.
    Knows-a-lot
    24th Jan 2019
    1:02pm
    Leave the date alone. The indigenes need to get with the program and stop their endless whinging.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    1:04pm
    Like 'feminists' and other 'activists' - they all need to stand on their own two feet for a change......

    Time to say NO to endless demands.
    Knows-a-lot
    24th Jan 2019
    1:15pm
    Right on, TREBOR. don't get me started on bloody feminists...
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:54pm
    Change the date and we can end this debate immediately. Would you whinge if your land was invaded and had to celebrate the day every year?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:35pm
    Keep the date - change the complainant minority, and this non-debate - it is not a debate it is a rejection of demands - can end.

    231 years ago....... keep crying about it... it won't change the way you live.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:37pm
    I am not crying about it I am just passionate about making a new day for all.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:58pm
    Didn't say you were crying about it - some Indigenes are though.. every year on cue....
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:25pm
    Jeff continues to educate himself and I admire his work and his efforts, well done. Of course I think we should change the date, it is well overdue, what does it matter to most people, all they do is get drunk and have bbq's, which they can do on any day.
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    1:33pm
    And its not as if we 'celebrate' Australia Day on the 26th - this year the holiday is on 28 Jan!
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:56pm
    So why not make it the 28th of January? So it does not make sense if they can change the day to celebrate so they get a public holiday so why not official make the day another day so ALL Australians can celebrate, not that I celebrate, I have better things to do.
    AutumnOz
    24th Jan 2019
    2:16pm
    musicveg you keep repeating 'change the date' without offering an alternative date for Australia Day.
    Finding a suitable date could be a major problem as to avoid conflict we need to list all the religious holidays of jews, christians, muslims, islamists, buddists, hindus and every other religious group within Australia and then there are all the sects within each group.
    Have a glance at the calendar which lists various religious and public holiday times and you'll be lucky to find an alternate date for Australia Day.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    2:22pm
    Bellbird just suggested Wattle Day September the 1st, sounds okay to me. I don't have a calendar that shows all the religious holidays so you will have to help me there.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:37pm
    It's not broke - no fix needed. Fit in or go your own way - in peace.

    As for Aboriginals - plenty of days they get to celebrate - NAIDOC WEEK.... does anyone complain about that and demand a date change? Anyone demand a change to Mabo Day to the date he was first refused?
    AutumnOz
    24th Jan 2019
    4:36pm
    musicveg September the first is out as it can, and probably will clash, with Father's Day.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    4:57pm
    Oh yeah forgot about that other commercialism day promoted by retailers to spend more. Everyday should be fathers day (and mothers day) for all those hardworking and caring parents.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    7:59pm
    This is what passes for education these days - propaganda posted as some form of reality after changing history to suit an agenda....

    Feminists started the rot and they own the franchise to it to this day...
    mitch1945
    24th Jan 2019
    1:35pm
    Leave the date as is. Someone else mentioned that whatever is done there will always be something else to moan about (legitimate or generally otherwise). I am British born but spent most of my life in either Australia or New Zealand. I have never heard the British complain about the Vikings, the Normans, the Romans who totally terrorised the British Isles for centuries. Suck it up and get on with life, there are much bigger things to worry about; not something that happened near 300 hundred years ago. I am sure Jeff Kennett has more to spend his time on than something he wanted to make headlines in very recent times. Don't get me wrong, our indigenous people have been treated badly over many years but it cannot be blamed on James Cook who is recognised worldwide as one of the greatest navigators/explorers of all time and not just for bumping into Australia. Saying he discovered Australia is technically incorrect but he did discover it (and many more places in the world) for Britain and Europe.
    ronloby
    24th Jan 2019
    1:52pm
    I am amazed with all the crap about Australia Day. The reading which I quote is from "The Expedition to Botany Bay by Watkin Tench". The Reading of the Commissions, and Taking Possession of the Settlement, in Form. With an Account of the Courts of Law, and Mode of Administering Public Justic in this Country. It was found impossible to Read the public commissions and take possession of the colony in form until the 7th of February 1788 due to more pressing duties of setting up a camp. TYhe read Australia Day should be January 20th 1788 because that is when the Fleet arrived in Botany Bay even though they didn't stay there.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    1:58pm
    No it should not, we should not be celebrating when the British arrived at all. Choose a day that does not represent anything but ALL Australians as one, a National day we ALL can be proud of, it will unite all the cultures in Australia.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:39pm
    Why not? There was no word for Australia Day until the British arrived.... no such concept.

    Pick a day - the day Luigi arrived in Malbun (modern day Malbadishu) from Italia? The day Parliament decided to take in Lebanese refugees? The day Australia decided to import Kanakas?

    We should celebrate the first day of British settlement - our entire nation is built on it....
    Alan
    24th Jan 2019
    1:56pm
    The actual colonisation of Australia began on a date other than 26 January - does it start on the date that the First Fleet left England or the dates that it actually arrived in Australia (18 - 20 January. I prefer to think that the date of arrival is the date that Aboriginals remember as "invasion day" as this is when it actually began.

    I also think that, like ANZAC Day, Australia Day should be celebrated on the date on which it actually falls.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    2:00pm
    Why do we have to celebrate colonization, why not just celebrate Australia as a whole? with no connections to history, lets move forward and not stay in the past.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:40pm
    We celebrate settlement - that's it. No need to change the date.. it has been the accepted date for generations now....
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:01pm
    Good point, Alan - I suppose the date was chosen for the establishment of the first 'permanent' camp..... with actual running water........ and Bennelong to show them how to fish.... and wshere the best hunting was.....
    Bellbird
    24th Jan 2019
    2:11pm
    I am a direct descendant of a first fleet convict. 26 January only marks the establishment of a prison camp on land illegally (see the Mabo decision) seized from local indigenous owners. It was not a colony of high minded free settlers of vacant land. The convicts were victims of a legal system without justice - no appeals, no legal aid - matched to fearsomely disproportionate penalties and a gratuitously brutal prison regime. How can we be proud of this event? I have much more pride in sharing our extraordinary country with its thousand-generation guardians. Sure, have a great national day but not on 26 January. Wattle Day on 1 September would be a good choice. Kennett is right: especially exposing the hypocrisy about a public holiday days after the 26th. Let's stop the chest beating ScoMo.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    2:19pm
    That makes much more sense, I like Wattle day. Makes you wonder why descendants of convicts are often the ones agreeing to celebrate the first fleet landing?
    Rae
    24th Jan 2019
    3:46pm
    Exactly so. We'd have to check there wasn't a massacre on that day though either by white fellas or by black fellas who did have tribal wars quite often.

    musicveg it's mainly country people who like this day. They come together and groups like the scouts etc are acknowledged. Aunty opens the ceremony so the Indigenous enjoy seeing her pride. Everyone has a free sausage sandwich and the deserts made by the CWA are amazing.The kids have a ball and it is just good old fashioned fun. Something city people don't understand. They have heaps of celebration days unlike the country people who work incredibly hard in terrible conditions that city workers would not tolerate.

    Wattle Day would work just as well .

    If we get into a country vs city thing it will be terrible though. The disconnect between viewpoints is widening which does not bode well.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:04pm
    I'm a country lad - went to the bowlo for a coldie today, wearing an Australia T-shirt - one of the wags said :" You're a bit early, aren't ya?"

    I said I was getting in early in case they changed the date or something.. dumped the flag as not representative of the nation's history or something...
    Rod63
    24th Jan 2019
    2:33pm
    It needs to be changed but to make it more acceptable to all, the change should be minimal.
    Make it the last Monday in January. It doesn't have to be a fixed date.
    That way it is still a long weekend and events don't interfere with regular Saturday and Sunday events when the 26th falls on one of those days.
    It was the last Monday in January for a long time. Let's go back to that.
    Adrianus
    24th Jan 2019
    2:45pm
    I understand that Bill Shorten is now opposed to keeping 26th January.
    Will changing the date have an everlasting effect on our culture? If not then leave it as is, I say.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:04pm
    Bill shorten? He's sign up to necrophilia if there were enough votes in it....
    inquisitive
    24th Jan 2019
    2:46pm
    Yes, I agree on that idea Andromeda. It won't do any harm but may soothe some hurt that was done in the past. The fact that this is a topic for argument year after year.
    lets put it behind us and act like mature adults, not children.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:42pm
    N ever ever heard of it or discussed it until a few malcontents started to complain and demand.

    There is a basic rule:- You do not give in to demands or threats.
    Rae
    24th Jan 2019
    2:46pm
    I think we should cancel Australia Day and when we finally get back a united Nation instead of groups of minorities then we can talk about when and how we can all celebrate being Australians together. Right now we simply are too divided.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:43pm
    We weren't divided until the malcontents started their 'campaign' that starts up again every year... nobody else starts it up, apart from the Kennetts of the world who want to be seen in public again... lest they vanish without trace...
    Jacka
    24th Jan 2019
    3:15pm
    Thank you Mr Kennett. 1. They're not our first people. 2. In the many thousands of years prior to arrival of the white settlers they had really done a lot to improve the country hadn't they. Had the white's not settled what is known as Australia today, there would be not one permanent structure on the landscape. So, Australia Day is and should always be the 26th of January, as decreed by our early settlers and very brave Explorers that made Australia what it is today. If you wish to have Let's Chuck A Boomerang Day, so be it, but do not touch the 26th of January Australia Day. Way too many lives have been lost through early exploration and two world wars to discredit the great people who made this country what it was and can be again. God bless Australia, Jacka.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:43pm
    Why bring the war into it, we have Anzac day to remember the soldiers. Indigenous people were quite happy with their lives before settlement of white people. They protected nature not destroyed it like we have done since settlement. We have cleared more land, killed off more species of plants,insects and animals and decimated the land turning more land into desert, poisoned the rivers, is that something to be proud of? Indigenous people were the first people of this land.
    Bellbird
    24th Jan 2019
    3:46pm
    Your knowledge of Australia is sadly minimal. There is not a shred of reputable evidence that the aboriginal peoples were not the first settlers despite some racists scrabbling to make this suggestion. Permanent structures? You obviously have not seen the fish traps at Brewarrina or multiple other aboriginal constructions. Most sadly have been destroyed. What the indigenous peoples did was to survive in and preserve an extraordinary and fragile continent. Its environmental degradation began in 1788. The aboriginal society in many ways was probably more equitable, better nourished and less violent than that of the arriving penal colonists. As for the "brave" explorers, you might well substitute "idiotic and ill-prepared" in many cases: think of Burke and Wills dying of hunger and thirst in country continuously used by aboriginal people, and declining their help.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:47pm
    How do you know Indigenous people were happy? They did not protect nature - they burnt large swathes of land to kill animals to eat.... and practiced slash and burn ... all the other problems you point to are the result of burgeoning population and some false practices that continue to this day..... you cannot change that by altering the date of Australia Day.

    They were not the first people of this land - and they will not be the last.

    I had this argument a week ago - where are the actual positive outcomes from any such silly move as changing a date or name, and what positive measures do the people who advocate that offer?

    What are YOUR answers to Aboriginal problems?
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:52pm
    The slashing and burning was to prevent grass fires and some seeds needed the fire to break open and regrow, it is why Indigenous people are now more and more being employed in taking care of the land, their traditional methods are better than any other. The problems that Indigenous people have stems from many things and many reasons, one was the taking of their land, destroying sacred monuments, introducing alcohol and processed foods to their diets which lead onto to health problems, feeling unworthy and the rest. We can at least give them a little by changing the date, yes it might not solve the problems but it will make Australia a more compassionate and caring country. Don't see why it is such a big deal to you to keep the same date Trebor.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:04pm
    Free legal services, free education, superior welfare entitlements, subsidized housing (that in many cases was trashed and then they were just given another), free capital to start businesses, favoured employment conditions, co-ownership of extremely lucrative tourist attractions and mines that generate huge profits - distributed among the Indigenous community, free fishing licenses, exclusive access to some parts of the country (entry forbidden to whites)… the list goes on and on and on and on. Endless apologies and reparation and a long list of days set aside exclusively for celebrations of Indigenous history and rights. A caring and compassionate society? We sure are when it comes to the Indigenous. We've even rewritten history to conform to their demands. Enough already! January 26 was a momentous day in Australia's history. Why the hell should ONE minority be allowed to deny the rest of us the opportunity to celebrate it. I'll agree to ban it altogether - when the Indigenous ban ALL of their special days.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    4:10pm
    And I thought you were a compassionate and caring person OGR, you seem to have changed a lot lately. It is just a day, what is the big deal to change it, we decimated a culture that was thriving before British settlement, why are we celebrating that day? No need to ban it just change it, simple, once it is changed there will be no big deal, most people just want the holiday so they can enjoy their families or have a piss up.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:15pm
    I am compassionate and caring, musicveg. Compassionate and caring for those to whom Australia Day has significance and who don't enjoy any of the rights and benefits and favouritism now granted to the Indigenous. It's ONE DAY - ONE DAY that means something to many. The Indigenous have many days. When the hell shouldn't those who value it have JUST ONE. Nobody is asking anyone to celebrate if they don't want to. And changing it won't make one shred of difference to anyone. The activists will just move on to the next whinge and demand, as they have been doing for decades.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:11pm
    Yeah.. yeah - but what ELSE have the Romans done for us? They've robbed our fathers... and our father's fathers...

    Like the poor long-suffering suffragettes - the truth was that the moment all MEN got the vote they voted at the first opportunity for women to have it too.... at the first opportunity to vote for Aboriginals to have the vote, Australia voted for it...

    We have always, overall, been a compassionate and considerate lot with a sense of fair play - the excesses of some in the past are not an indication of the whole - and the reality was for many years that injustice and abuse and usury were heaped upon the 'lower classes'...

    Read about the master/servant relationship before the Unions arrived... read the true history of the likes of Ned Kelly... Revolutionary... we(the ex and I) lived in Kelly country and also Jacka (VC) country... my Auntie Shirley was a Kelly... the girl up the road was a descendant of Albert Jacka...

    History oozes through the veins of multiple generation Australians..... let's keep it on the straight and narrow.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    3:51pm
    'brutalised' - their feelings might be hurt.. so don't bother about it and do your own thing.. nobody is forcing you to do anything or be part of anything on Australia Day....

    Respect the right of others to celebrate as they choose.... same as you... don't blame anyone if you want to sit at home and drown your sorrows over a tiny event 231 years ago...

    All this whining and demanding and offering of threats of WAR* is what is ramping up the hostility and hatred over this non-issue...

    *Nothing from that dopey sheila this year?
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    3:57pm
    You are getting worse with your comments Trebor "a tiny event" no it was not tiny if you look at the bigger picture or is this too hard for you? There is no hatred here only love, a love for a country that we can ALL be proud of. Then we will all respect one another and make this country a true multi-cultural society that it is trying to be.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:08pm
    No, we don't musicveg. The Indigenous DO NOT respect our rights. They don't thank us for all we've done for them. They want to own tourist attractions and mines, but they didn't build them. They want land rights, but NOT rights to undeveloped land that they owned before we came - oh no! Land rights to what WE have created that is now generating huge revenue. (Mind you, I'm only referring to the whingers and activists here - not the majority of good, honest, decent Indigenous who are just quietly getting on with life and don't have any issue with Australia Day!)

    If British hadn't come here and subsequently defended this country, there might not be any Indigenous. Japanese would likely have wiped them all out. So let's stop the crap and use some common sense and MUTUAL RESPECT.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:12pm
    And BTW. It was only a handful of British soldiers who did any harm to the Indigenous other than in self defence. And they did just as much or more harm to the poor convicts and even to free white settlers. The Italian and Chinese migrants suffered hideous persecution, but they aren't whinging. They are getting on with striving to make their own lives better. Most of us neither bear any responsibility for any hurt to Aboriginals, nor are descended from anyone who bears any responsibility. Stop the stupid blame game - because it's only aimed at lining the pockets of the powerful and most Indigenous are much more focused on integrating and building a good life for themselves and their families and couldn't give a stuff about Australia Day. Geez, why on earth would anyone focus on what day a celebration is held in preference to focusing on fixing the government and budget and making a better society for everyone?
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    4:13pm
    OGR the ifs and buts do not matter anymore, but a day to celebrate what makes Australia great needs to change so all can participate, this will unite our country for the better. Stop bringing other more complicated issues into this discussion.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:17pm
    All can't participate when it's a day that has no meaning except to remind white Australians of the hatred and blame game that forced them to abandon a celebration that meant something to them.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:19pm
    And it won't promote unity. It will promote division. It's just more reverse discrimination and unfair favouritism. Unity is achieved by MUTUAL RESPECT, not by pandying to the unfair demands of minorities - especially when those demands are based on wrongful blame and hatred.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    4:20pm
    Sorry OGR I don't get that, so celebrating Invasion day means something to some people?, wow we do live in a sick country. We are forced into things all the time, like daylight savings for example, we don't get to vote on a lot of issues.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:32pm
    It is NOT and never was 'invasion day'. That's crap peddled by lying activists. There was no 'invasion' on January 26. There was merely an arrival of a few people on boats, to ONE small locality.
    Adrianus
    24th Jan 2019
    4:35pm
    Absolutely Rainey, we are being divided by race fuelled by hatred. A hatred which is also used as a tool by some politicians. We need to change this culture, not the date.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:15pm
    Settlement of a small area by a couple of hundred people is a major event now? Most Aboriginals didn't even meet a white man for decades... where was there any war between nations?

    It's not invasion day - it's Australia Day... you live here - live with it.

    I don't hate Aboriginals - I've known some very fine ones including Mama Shirl who went to police stations to support Aboriginals arrested, to ensure they were treated properly and did not top themselves. She did that day or night and sadly died too young.

    Anyway - we do need to get past the hatred - it IS a one way hatred at the moment, but if this nonsense continues, it may soon turn two ways...
    maxchugg
    28th Jan 2019
    9:52am
    As we have heard so much about the "invasion" and its effect upon the natives from so many revisionists of history, let's hear from Truganini who claimed to be the last of her people:

    "She remembered Mr. Robinson and her adventures with him in his long and dangerous mission. At the mention of his name her bright eyes beamed more brightly, and she was unmistakably pleased with any reference to the subject of her connection with that true friend of herself and her people. Bush life, she said, was very bad, and she should not like to go back to it again. She had seen many people killed in her time, both white folk and black, but that was all over now. She had not forgotten Flinders Island, nor Oyster Cove, but was more happy and comfortable where she was living now. Mrs. Dandridge said she sometimes spoke a great deal of her past life, relating in her own quaint and simple manner many of the scenes and incidents in her strange career. Not a few of these were deeds of violence and murder. Night attacks of the blacks on remote settlements, cruel, slaughter of the inmates—men, women, and children—and equally cruel retaliations of the whites; wanderings through the bush, and suffering from the want of food, cold, and fatigue." Gippsland Times, January 31, 1877

    It is a remarkable fact that a group of people with an Aboriginal ancestor half a dozen generations back have now become aborigines who treat the views of Truganini with contempt yet shamelessly use her picture on their race hating poster in which they denounce Australia day with accusations of theft, rape and murder, all offences committed predominantly by their sealer ancestors in conflict with prevailing laws.
    flowerpot
    24th Jan 2019
    4:34pm
    Trebor and OGR and the rest who disagree with changing the date: it's a small thing, if it goes some way towards reparation for the injustices done to Aboriginal people then why not change it? The idea is to bring us all together to live in harmony. If a date change helps that process I'm all for it. Of course, convicts and white people have suffered but put yourselves in the shoes of the displaced for a minute and all they have lost in terms of languages, culture, land, loss of life through disease and massacres, erosion of the environment and mostly lack of respect from governments and sections of the population. Would you be angry, would you want the date your ancestors lost their country to be celebrated or would you, just for a moment, like your voice to be heard and another date chosen so we can celebrate as one people?
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    4:36pm
    Well said flowerpot! I wholeheartedly agree with you
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    4:55pm
    Thank you flowerpot for putting into better words than I did. A small change would make a big difference and even if it doesn't it is a step in the right direction, staying with old traditions is not doing anything for this country.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    7:58pm
    No, flowerpot. In the shoes of the Indigenous, I would be grateful for what this nation has done for them, and respectful of the traditions and values of other Australians. We have given them a great deal. It's time they stopped whinging and blaming unfairly and showed some respect - and most of them agree. It's only a handful of self-interested whingers driving unreasonable demands.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:19pm
    How does it change anything that WAS done? And as far as I know none of my forebears ever did anything to an Aboriginal? Our duty is to the living - let the dead take care of the dead.

    These people need to stop their 'activism' and its implied threats and endless demands, and work on what they can achieve for their people, or if they are Whitey running dogs (useful fools) they should be working on helping the Indigenous - not trying to bring down the nation that supports them all.

    Let's have a national conference without any political interference, and find actual ways to resolve the issues - if we can.... I'll be in that.....
    Mike Omment
    24th Jan 2019
    5:05pm
    I definitely dont want the date changed and my family dont want the date changed and we are all of aboriginal descent. Its only a few white people that want change for the sake of change.
    flowerpot
    24th Jan 2019
    5:15pm
    Fey and musicveg, We seem to be the voices of reason in this discussion but I'm afraid we'll have little effect on the shouty ones who will never be able to put themselves in other people's situations or empathise with the plight of the displaced. There's an intransigent mindset which is the offspring of fear of change and a belief that things used to be better in the 'old days'. They see Aboriginal people as unfairly advantaged while their tribe has lost out. The rage is misdirected, of course, and should be directed towards the real culprits in society but it's easier to kick the cat, isn't it?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:23pm
    We all think we are the voices of reason, flowerpot - good luck with yours..... but mine is at least as good..... and your generalisations are silly... nobody is 'frightened of change' - that's a long worn-out feminist line and is a deliberate put-down of anyone who disagrees with you - most simply see no real reason to change Australia Day, title or date.

    Same with the other things... but if I can be 'activist' and be handed Ayers Rock... well... I could go for that... wouldn't be unfair advantage to give it to me, would it?

    Rage? Haven't seen a single condemnatory word against Aboriginals here - all the rage is coming from them and their supporters over a non-issue.

    Name the real culprits and stop kicking the other cats.....

    (this is like drawing teeth)....
    Sundays
    24th Jan 2019
    5:18pm
    I take the point about changing the date. It really doesn’t matter to me which date we choose, if it helps us be more cohesive as a nation. However, I strongly believe that we should celebrate Australia Day and the great country we live in. Unfortunately, some of the indegeneous don’t just want a date change, they don’t want any celebration, or acknowledgement. To move forward we can’t remain stuck in the past
    flowerpot
    24th Jan 2019
    5:18pm
    Mike Omment, If you identify as an Aboriginal person, please tell us why the date should stay the same?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:25pm
    Tell us why it should change to suit some and not the majority? Because they want it? Did-ums....

    My nephew and niece don't want it to change - they don't have to justify not wanting something... nor does Mike Omment... when someone demands something it is upon them to justify their demand... and thus far I've seen no compelling argument to change it.
    Mike Omment
    24th Jan 2019
    5:32pm
    A date change serves no purpose! It does nothing to advance indigenous people who have moved on generations ago. We are all Australian and we also want to celebrate Australia Day.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    6:13pm
    Yes but it is better we change it, to suit more people, and especially parents who are over extending the school holidays every year.
    Charlie
    25th Jan 2019
    12:15am
    Lets not put the cart in front of the horse, we don't go around changing everything automatically but we do live by leaving things the same unless there is a good reason to change them.
    musicveg
    25th Jan 2019
    12:19am
    There is good reasons to change it and no one has convinced me there is any good enough reason not to change it.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    3:31pm
    You haven't provided a single reason to change anything, musicveg. And neither has anyone else to my knowledge - just a lot of lies about an 'invasion' that never happened.
    ardnher
    24th Jan 2019
    5:48pm
    a survey has shown 70% want it left as it is. I agree!
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    6:12pm
    What survey and who did they ask and when?
    fey
    24th Jan 2019
    6:21pm
    I didn't take part in a survey re a date for Australia Day. When was this and who ran it?
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:29pm
    Let's hold a referendum then... start pushing for it... but stop demanding... that will avail you nothing.....

    You want it changed.. get it done the right way in a democracy .. or do you figure that a despotism is all right as long as it caters to the demands of minorities? You want Big Guv to come down on Whitey and dictate to him that Australia Day WILL change? You seriously want government to come in over the top of the people and dictate on anhy minute issue to suit a small and vocal minority?

    You are all closet Fascists and no better than a Stalinist.... and you don't even realise what you are saying.... yet you would be the first to protest if Big Guv dictated to you over something you consider quite ordinary and everyday .....
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    7:13am
    No, no, Trebor. No referendum. The minority would lose! Can't have that. They prefer to cause disruption and upset, even they never get their way - 'cause they really don't care about the date at all. It's just an excuse to stir the pot!
    flowerpot
    24th Jan 2019
    5:55pm
    Mike Omment, I take your point and would be interested to know what the stats are regarding the numbers of Aboriginal people who want the date changed or not. If Aboriginal people don't care about the date then it's not worth changing but I was under the impression it was a big issue for some people, even if it isn't for you personally.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    6:11pm
    It is also that non-indigenous people would like to change the date, I think it is silly to have it at the end of school holidays when parents are getting kids ready to go back to school and making the school holidays even longer. There are many reasons to change the date.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:30pm
    some non-indigenous people'... 'some' .....

    It extends holidays in the hot part of the year so the kids don't have to go back to school in the heat of summer.... it's a good thing.
    Rae
    25th Jan 2019
    8:51am
    musicveg go to a country town Australia Day get together and you'll see why it is a good day. I used to take the kids back to Country to catch up with the relatives. We could use the holidays to extend the visit.
    The Elders are respected and made to feel important on that day.They still are.

    These city Murri kids need to get back to Country for a while and talk to their Elders about what is important. It's not a date.
    I know the immigrants and city people are different now and there are many more of them but they are being selfish in this. They have plenty of celebrations in the city from all sorts of minority groups.Plenty to do and a lot of the jobs easy and comfortable and well paid.

    One of the big problems now is the curriculum.
    Some bad things that happened are being taught but not the good things.

    For example my Great Grandmother's People were matriarchal. Their Elder learned to read through the good heart of a white woman and wrote Queen Victoria about the problem of the Mission and the men in charge. Queen Victoria granted them their tribal lands which they still hold. They are beautiful.The language is beautiful. The stories and places are still remembered.The history and language is taught in the High School there. Why aren't these stories told about how co-operation between people works.How education works. It's just all accusations and divisive and focused on the negatives.

    These activists would make better use of their time by working to see that the kids got to school every day and smart kids got to uni with support in my opinion. This whole thing is a waste of energy. I was the first in my family to go to uni out of 56 first cousins.

    We have enormous challenges to face. Even surviving is questionable if we don't focus on the important issues and it's not how people feel about past mistakes.

    We could remember that terrible things can happen very easily and work on ensuring we do compromise to see that they don't happen over and over.Celebrate the good things people do to help stop bad things and to foster cohesion within communities like they do in Country Australian towns on Australia Day.

    Pretending they didn't happen by date changes is a cop out. Too many terrible things are still happening here and now and that is where the energy needs to go and where the fight needs to be fought in my opinion.
    Mike Omment
    24th Jan 2019
    7:04pm
    Perhaps us kooris tend to be more traditional and not chop and change willy nilly
    KSS
    24th Jan 2019
    7:08pm
    How about the 25% in favour of change show the same 'understanding' of the fact you cannot change history and show some sensitivity to ALL Australians. For that is what we are right AUSTRALIANS!
    Florgan
    24th Jan 2019
    7:23pm
    Between 1606 and 1770 more than 50 European ships made landfall on Australian soil, which was then inhabited solely by Indigenous people. Navigator and astronomer Captain James Cook claimed the whole of the east coast of Australia for Great Britain on 22 August 1770, naming eastern Australia 'New South Wales'.
    22nd August 1770 !
    Bellbird
    24th Jan 2019
    7:58pm
    I have great respect for Cook, who was an extraordinarily able navigator. However his claim, as understood in the light of the High Court's Mabo decision, was unquestionably invalid. The land was not terra nullius, and not open to be claimed by the British king. No respectable country should be celebrating an illegal act as its national day.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:32pm
    Well - by the standards of the times it was 'terra nullius', having no organised civilisation - with which I disagree.. but times were different then...

    Why should this nation not celebrate the day it became Australia by settlement? Everyone does so ...
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    24th Jan 2019
    7:55pm
    Surveys show only 10% of the population supports changing the date, and 70% specifically want the current date retained. So the activists are insisting democracy be thrown out the window and a 10% minority indulged. That's NOT the Australian way. It's selfish and unfair.
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:35pm
    Fascists and Stalinists all - and they are so used to it by now - this demanding by a small minority and getting government to impose it - that they think this can go on forever. Again, the 'feminists' started it and it is now a mindless beast out of control and threatening to devour sense, reason, decency, and fairness in this nation.

    Anyone with a petty grievance thinks they can get the government to fix it for them by imposing on others..... what absolute Fascist nonsense.

    I predicted when the Liberals got in that the Abbott government would be a watershed in Australian politics.... perhaps this never-ending silly non-issue will be a watershed in the way this nation is handled on behalf of its people.

    Perhaps we must thank the Australia Day activists for waking the sleeping giant....
    Mike Omment
    24th Jan 2019
    8:08pm
    Bellbird Its history,,,,every body has some. If I can get past it and move on ,surely you can too
    TREBOR
    24th Jan 2019
    8:36pm
    Now I have better things to do - wash up and wash my half head of hair.... see you all on AUSTRALIA DAY.
    Charlie
    24th Jan 2019
    10:20pm
    Changing the date for Australia day, wont do any more than "reconciliation" did a few years back. In fact it will do a lot less.

    We have had so much garbage pushed in our faces about how badly the indigenous people were made to suffer, they are replacing all other Australian history. This is the work of the anti establishment activist.

    If you take the laws of today and apply them to 250 years ago of course people will look like they are doing the wrong thing. You can't rewrite history, what was done in 1788 was subject to the laws of 1788. In 1805 Britain was fighting the Battle of Trafalgar to ward off invasion by Napoleon.

    How does so much get written about a people who didn't read or write, but passed things on by word of mouth. Things we are now taking as Gospel.

    It was no garden of Eden here, being a hunter gatherer in a hostile Australian climate. They didn't grow crops so they had no reserve food supply, that means hunger and disease would have taken it toll, before whites came near the place.

    What about the convicts, settlers, farmers, goldminers, soldiers, bushrangers and explorers who took part in building this country? What about the positive things that happened.

    The worst thing we have done to the indigenous people is teach them how to be professional victims.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    10:40pm
    They did not need to grow crops they knew how to sustain themselves with what was on the land naturally, there was no hunger and disease until white man came.
    This is not about remembering convicts, settlers etc. it is about making a new date that ALL Australians can be proud of, don't see why it is such a problem to you, OGR, Trebor and others, especially when most celebrations are on the public holiday on the following Monday.
    Charlie
    24th Jan 2019
    11:06pm
    Absolute bullshit , Australian Aborigines suffered the same hardship as other hunter gatherer tribes around the world.

    How do you define "all Australians" except by the majority which already exists. A change of date only generates another minority group who pretend they are working in the interest of all Australians but are working in their own interest.

    Lets remember the Australians who made Australia great and forget about the whingers.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    11:28pm
    We can still remember Australians who made Australia great as you say, just on a different day, not big deal. It is not about whinging at all, it is about what is right against what is wrong, and it is wrong not to change the date, for most people they would not care what day it was as long as they get their public holiday.
    Charlie
    24th Jan 2019
    11:40pm
    Right or wrong according to who... A displeased minority who call themselves "first peoples" when they are only the "descendants" of first peoples.

    .A minority who pretend to be harmed because something was done to an ancestor so far back they didn't even know them.

    No these claims of right or wrong are contrived
    old frt
    24th Jan 2019
    11:05pm
    Very true Jan and well written. Also it is very hard to believe but some excellent comments from Rainey and Trebor, well done keep the debate honest , we are not racist just the usually silent majority.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    11:30pm
    So everyone going off track and bringing in other issues are excellent comments, they are not sticking to the debate at all, just throwing in things willy nilly about Indigenous people.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    6:39am
    Not going off track, musicveg. Exposing the REAL facts that are relevant - i.e. that this BS about a date is just a stupid distraction by selfish activists and when they force their wishes on the 70% who DO NOT want the date changes, and the 20% who don't care, and succeed in appeasing 10% of selfish people who can't live in a democratic society, they will move on to the next distraction.

    Sorry, but there is NO BENEFIT in changing the date of Australia Day, and nobody really cares what date it is. It's just an excuse to whinge and play the blame game.
    LJ
    24th Jan 2019
    11:33pm
    Activists and politicians are all about stirring and tacky symbolism.

    A large rump of the indigenous population are living well thank you and have their careers, families and homes in cities and their children are completing university degrees in astounding numbers. They are not on interest to the media, but good news rarely is.

    The much smaller number of indigenous who live in dysfunctional circumstances are that way because of booze, drugs and welfare dependence (in lieu of taking jobs and being responsible for themselves).

    If he knew better Kennett would surely be talking about the change that would really matter, the first being getting every indigenous child to attend proper education every day. Education that fits them for the modern world. That is, proficiency in English, maths and science as the first priority.

    The very last thing that the coming generation of indigenous children need is the divisiveness of the Left that will see them back in a time-warp bubble, uneducated and forgotten, while all sorts of awful molestation and ill-treatment is going on and they are devoid of the protections under Australian law and police protection that other children have and enjoy by right.
    musicveg
    24th Jan 2019
    11:52pm
    Again nothing to do with the changing the date issue and why it needs to be changed and no good reason to keep it the same date.
    Adrianus
    25th Jan 2019
    8:15am
    Excellent post LJ.
    I agree the use of divisive identity politics may get a couple of extra votes, but look at the damage it does.
    Jacka
    25th Jan 2019
    1:35am
    Good old musicveg, so many idiotic comments you must have had an overabundance of beetle nuts with your mates. I hope so, if not you should be committed. Cheers Jacka.
    musicveg
    25th Jan 2019
    1:55am
    What the? Have you nothing better to say than to attack me personally, am I not allowed to voice my opinion? I am still waiting for an answer to what is the main reason we need to keep the same date and you say my comments are idiotic, very strange you are.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    3:20pm
    Why keep National Sorry Day on the date? Why keep ANZAC Day on the 25th Apr. Why keep ANY day on the day we celebrate it? Because it's OUR TRADITION. And you know what, musicveg? I get really pissed off that we invest heaps in preserving Aboriginal culture and making a huge deal of THEIR traditions and culture, but ours doesn't bloody matter. A small minority can deprive us of every right to acknowledge OUR past and culture and traditions and continually bash us with nasty accusations, insulting blame, and rewrites of history to suit vested interests. If I'd had 1/10th the special advantages and benefits granted to Aboriginals of my generation, I'd be dancing in the streets on Australia Day waving massive THANK YOU flags - not whinging about something that MIGHT have happened to one or more of their ancestors generations ago.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    3:22pm
    And another reason - perhaps the best of all. Because changing the date is playing into the hands of those who want to destroy unity and harmony. It's building on the divisiveness that politicians use to destroy the values we care about in society.
    hyacinth
    25th Jan 2019
    2:18am
    I am an Australian by virtue of a certificate. I am happy to be
    here and I respect the indigenous people. However. it is time for everyone to move forward and live in harmony with each other. The country from which I came was invaded numerous times. People do not dwell on it. They get on with their lives. We cannot change what has happened in the past. Many things world wide have happened that we cannot change. People who constantly bring up the past do not help. Let us celebrate the country that we live in now
    We should be doing this on a daily basis and be thankful for what we have.
    musicveg
    25th Jan 2019
    2:22am
    No one is asking that we do not be thankful or not celebrate, just change the date when we do celebrate, then we can truly move forward away from the past.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    3:05pm
    You really would have to be naïve and gullible to believe that crap, musicveg. Land rights were supposed to solve everything. Voting rights were supposed to allow us to move on. Every gain will be followed by more demands - and as there is less and less on which to base valid complaint, the demands will get more and more unreasonable. They have a host of days dedicated to them:
    Anniversary of the National Apology (which, incidentally, I find offensive since 92,000 stolen Australians were excluded - and I do NOT refer to forced adoptees or immigrant children such as Barnados - but to Aussie kids taken from their Australian families after their 3rd birthday and never allowed to see or contact parents again!)

    Two celebrations of "Close the Gap"
    (March and April)

    Sorry Day

    Reconciliation Week

    Mabo Day

    Naidoc Week

    Aboriginal and Islander Children's Day

    International Day of World's Indigenous Children
    Deadly Awards Day

    AND they have commandeered Australia Day and renamed it 'Invasion Day'

    Bugger off and let the rest of us have ONE BLOODY DAY to celebrate the beginning of OUR Australia. There was no 'invasion'. And they have more than enough days to bullshit about their supposedly miserable history and all the crimes against them. When they say 'thank you' for the good we've done for them and nominate a day to acknowledge it, maybe I'll have a little more patience.
    hyacinth
    25th Jan 2019
    5:32am
    Changing a date won't alter a thing. Like I said . it is not good to dwell on the past . Move on(and that implies all people who live in this great land).
    flowerpot
    25th Jan 2019
    7:19am
    Hyacinth, I'm an immigrant too. I met my Aussie husband in France and that's how I ended up here. I'm forever grateful to be here and I love this country deeply but I agree with musicveg -it's only a date and it's not about forgetting the Europeans who came here or their struggles; it's only a respectful date change to honour and acknowledge the effect that colonisation had on the first peoples.
    musicveg
    25th Jan 2019
    6:43pm
    Thanks for your support flowerpot, but it seems that a lot of people seem to want to hold onto their special day on that particular date, see my post below and read the history of how the date came about.
    POLLIE BACKFLIP
    25th Jan 2019
    7:21am
    Putting aside the issue of what this day signifies for the indigenous community, why are we celebrating Cooks landing anyway? Between 1606 and 1770 more than 50 European ships made landfall on Australian soil, which was then inhabited solely by Indigenous people. When Cook landed He had with him maps showing the north, west and south coasts based on the earlier Dutch exploration. So he even used prior explorer knowledge to get. Federation (1st. January 1901) has much more national significance than some English navy captain coming to land in North Qld because he needed water and supplies.
    Rae
    25th Jan 2019
    9:20am
    We don't celebrate Cooks landing but Phillips landing to establish a Penal Settlement. It wasn't an invasion. If the Indigenous people hadn't helped the settlement would have failed. They wouldn't have got over the mountains as early either. There was co-operation between Indigenous and early settlers more than strife.

    Unfortunately the greedy do bad things. Then as they are now. The victim changes.

    If the British had failed the Dutch or Indonesians or Chinese or French or Spanish would have been in very quickly indeed and there wouldn't be many Indigenous left and they certainly wouldn't have the rights in law everyone enjoys today.

    Maybe celebrating the fact it was the British isn't such a bad idea when you consider the alternatives.

    Have a look at the differences between Caribbean Islands based on who colonised and you can get an idea of what I'm talking about.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    2:48pm
    Absolutely right, Rae.
    flowerpot
    25th Jan 2019
    7:24am
    Good point Pollie Backflip. Federation Day would be an excellent choice.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    7:36am
    Look, I agree, we should give the 'First Australians' their land back. Now, can anyone please identify a 'first Australian' living today who was dispossessed and the land they were dispossessed of? No. We owe their descendants? Okay. I want the land in Ireland returned to me that my great-great-grandfather was dispossessed of. Now, fair's fair. Mr Kennett should support my campaign for justice. And so should musicveg, and all the others here who are demanding fairness for the vocal descendants of 'First Australians'. And I want St Patricks Day changed. It's offensive to me, because Ireland and Catholics treated my great-great grandfather very badly (apparently! According to legend.)

    While we are at it, we must change ANZAC Day, because I'm offended that we celebrate an act of war, given that an ancestor was killed in war. And what about Christmas Day. Darwin was blown away at Christmas. We shouldn't celebrate such a tragic event that left so many homeless. Easter MUST be changed. How dare we celebrate the murder of someone Christians revere. Geez, we can take this to ridiculous extremes. Or we can tell the idiot activists to wake up to themselves and concentrate on something productive for a change! We have far bigger problems in this society than a few folk claiming offense over a date.
    Geminiwoman
    25th Jan 2019
    10:12am
    I know there are arguments for both sides. However, none of the Aboriginal people alive today were alive back when Australia became the country we have now. Yes, back then things were grim for Aboriginal people but look at the benefits we have now. I notice, sadly, that the indigenous population gets on the bandwagon when it suits them, but cut off their housing benefits, their welfare benefits and send them back to living in humpies in the bush, then we'll see who wants to call it invasion day rather than liberation day as I see it.
    fey
    25th Jan 2019
    10:45am
    I understand that many Australian indigenous people are still living in humpies in country towns in outback Australia or in substandard housing without running water connected.

    It would be hard for them to see how their lives have improved since the British arrived and colonised this country I should think.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    2:46pm
    Entirely by choice, fey. None have to live in humpies in country towns in the outback. But whites who choose to live in remote areas also tolerate substandard housing and no running water connected, and some have no power either. ALL Aboriginals get welfare and a host of benefits, so yes, their lives HAVE improved a great deal.
    floss
    25th Jan 2019
    10:58am
    What would Kennett know he was a nasty piece of work when he was in power, is he now feeling guilty.
    Adrianus
    25th Jan 2019
    11:10am
    To all those people who are saying, lets change it, "its only a date."
    Don't you think that is precisely why we should not change it?
    hyacinth
    25th Jan 2019
    12:41pm
    Perhaps Mr Kennett only wants to keep his name alive to the public by his comments and his comments can only stir up trouble. Retire gracefully Mr Kennett like the rest of us have to do.
    musicveg
    25th Jan 2019
    6:32pm
    Celebrating Australia on January 26 is a ‘tradition’ of only 24 years.

    While a celebration has occurred since 1935, it was held on the Monday of a long weekend at the end of January – whatever the date. Twenty four years or even 84 years does not compare with the 60,000+ years of First Nations peoples tradition.

    Australia was first celebrated on July 30 in 1915. This was the first official Australia Day celebration and it was held to raise funds for the World War I effort.

    In 1916, after the formation of the Australia Day committee, it was determined that Australia Day would be held on July 28.

    Other states have also celebrated the day.

    The Hobart Regatta Day was once Tasmania’s Australia Day Celebration. Regatta Day is now held in January or February.

    Foundation Day, now called WA Day, is held on June 1 and commemorates the founding of the Swan River Colony.

    December 28 was Proclamation Day, a day to celebrate the establishment of Government in South Australia.

    By 1953 the states and territories were celebrating a national day together, however it was still known as Anniversary Day in NSW, and Foundation Day in other regions.

    By 1946, Commonwealth and state governments agreed that states would celebrate Australia Day as a country and with a public holiday. Australia Day became an official public holiday for all states and territories in 1994.

    Since 1938, First Nations communities around the country have continued to mark 26 January as a day of mourning and, more recently, as Invasion Day or Survival Day. On the bicentenary in 1988, 40,000 First Nations peoples and their supporters staged a mass march from Redfern Park across the Sydney Harbour Bridge to protest Invasion Day.

    Even if you are unconvinced by this argument, let’s face it: ’traditions’ should never be unalterable. History is strewn with dubious ‘traditions’ that in later times more insight has meant they have been dropped or altered.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    25th Jan 2019
    7:22pm
    Totally irrelevant, musicveg. Nothing in the history books makes it right to indulge a group of activists who are deliberately creating division and undermining efforts towards unity. The majority want the celebration on Jan 26, so that should be the end of the discussion - unless, of course, you want to abolish any semblance of democracy in this nation? That would be a dangerous game to play.
    musicveg
    25th Jan 2019
    8:14pm
    Geez OGR I thought it was relevant just to show we have only had the date of January 26th for 24 years, and it has been changed before so we could change it again without any issues, but we can go with the majority I don't care personally, just like I didn't care about marriage equality but it made a lot of people happy so I voted for it even though I thought it should of been passed with out voting on it. If we never had activists I would hate to think what the world would be like, they lock activists up in other countries at least we can voice our opinions even if we don't often agree. We will see what happens in the future, I have no more to say on this subject, so yes end of discussion.
    fey
    25th Jan 2019
    8:19pm
    Thanks for the well researched comment musicveg. It shows us just how silly and irrelevant iit is for people to insist that Australia Day can only be held on 26 January and especially so when different states already celebrate the dates that their own colonies were established.
    musicveg
    25th Jan 2019
    8:53pm
    Thanks fey, but I cannot take the credit for writing it, I just copied and pasted after I found it thought it would help explain a little more.
    JAID
    26th Jan 2019
    6:29am
    Many of the justifications given here for leaving the 26th as Australia day are not unreasonable. I hen-pick from just some of your many reasons Trebor and with respect paraphrase to generalisation. We are all Australians; this has nothing to do with disrespect for earlier peoples; early inhabitants of other countries move on; everywhere humans have changed, invaded, dispossessed. Each of those contentions can be true.

    It need not have come to this and probably would not were we not an incorrigible nanny state with a media of righteous exaggerated sensitivities but in a few decades it has. For some and likely a solid percentage of those who identify as aboriginal the date has come to equate with invasion of what was theirs and with misery. This is a sadness which is unnecessary and one which we can fix.

    We do not need an Australia day. We know what we are. If, however, enough think it necessary to celebrate the strength and beauty and diversity which we all quietly know and respect then quietly move it to another day. Then, celebrate our capacity to create a wonderful future, not the past.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    26th Jan 2019
    8:51am
    By that logic, we don't need a 'Sorry Day' (which I find offensive) or any of the other days the Indigenous claim for celebrations, so let's abolish those also Jaid.

    An Indigenous lady posted this yesterday:
    From a diary of the time: Bowes
    Monday, 21st January, 1788.
    'They were all perfectly naked, rather slender made, of a dark black colour, their hair not woolly, but short and curly. Everyone had the tooth next the foretooth in the upper jaw knocked out and many of them had a piece of stick about the size of a tobacco pipe, and 6 or 8 inches in length, run through the septum of the nostrils, to which, from its great similitude, we ludicrously gave the name of a sprit sail yard. They all cut their backs bodies and arm which heal up in large ridges and scars. They live in miserable wigwams near the water, which are nothing more than 2 or 3 pieces of the bark of a tree set up sideways against a ridge pole fastened to 2 upright stick at each end. They are about 2 or 3 feet high and few amongst them are to be found which are weather proof.'

    She added that the Indigenous had potentially more reason to celebrate the day our flag was raised (NOT 'Invasion Day' - as no invasion ever happened) more than any other Australians, and should perhaps be grateful for British settlement rather than one of the likely alternatives that would have resulted in far less compassion.

    We are indulging people who want to cause division, and that's a dangerous game. We should be telling those who choose misery to toughen up and get on with building a better future. Dwelling on the past and playing the blame game can only cause more misery. There was no 'invasion'. That's a distortion of history to win sympathy and favours that are undeserved and not beneficial to anyone. The mistake our society made was to misunderstand equality. Reparation, sympathy and indulgence do NOT lead to equality or harmony. The rest of us have to get over the past and get on with life. I have a message for all those who want to pretend an 'invasion' happened and be sad and miserable:

    "Laugh and the world laughs with you,
    Weep and you weep alone
    For this sad old earth with all its mirth has troubles enough of its own."

    Now let's do them a HUGE favour and tell them to go suck eggs. The majority want Australia Day left as it is, and this is a democracy. There was never any 'invasion', and telling lies to younger Indigenous will do nothing but harm to them and to our society.
    Those who put the past behind them and got on with life are not sad. They are enjoying a great life. Following their example is the way to happiness - not screaming for ridiculous date changes and other stupid meaningless indulgences that won't put food on tables or make decent housing more affordable, or do anything else productive or beneficial. It will just encourage more weeping and wailing and distraction from making life better.
    JAID
    26th Jan 2019
    4:19pm
    OGR I think your friend has clearly weighed the matter.

    There is no doubt there is pandering, no doubt that other 'invasions' could have been more onerous, no doubt that babes are being inculcated with views not necessarily a consequence of direct response to the practical incoming of other than early peoples and no doubt that if one has a taste for the modern world aboriginals live much closer to its leading edge now than they would continuing and evolving traditional existence. There is also no doubt that brutality existed only as to the extent of it, no doubt regardless that there was not one country or nation involved that incoming masses could reasonably come to be seen as invasion and no doubt that there have been terrible repercussions both natural and well-meaning as well as those related to darker moments.

    Beyond that I agree that pandering can tend to prolong dissatisfaction. In that it involves a degree of focus on the past it can also undermine the resolve of people to focus on and make the best the future.

    Notwithstanding all the above, in the matter of a handful of decades (for regardless of what the media and opponents will tell you that is all it has been) Australia Day has come to signify for some the antithesis of what we hold it for. Out togetherness as a nation. Where it may assist to create "We" and "Them" it is works against what we hold it for.

    (Though, again I am not sure why we bother holding such a day at all. We are what we are and can be.)
    JAID
    26th Jan 2019
    4:48pm
    The nation does not stop work for "Sorry Day" (and why should it?) so that given those who observe it do so of their own choosing without impinging on others I am not sure any have a place treading on it.

    Trebor, yourself OGR and perhaps others here have referred to (again to paraphrase) the marketing hype associated with this. It does not end with the examples given either but has been a fond past-time ever since voice started to be found in a once overpoweringly racist locale.

    Perhaps one of the most powerful is: "First Peoples." Perhaps it is reasonable, giving the humanity benefit of the doubt, to assume that there is at least some genetic connection with the first humans to have trodden this brown land but we have no proof that those of us who identify as aboriginal do indeed have any connection. Instead, there is proof of some genetic variety.

    Any archeological/biological verdict would be made without profound investigation of the earliest eras of occupation. The term should not be used until such time that a verdict can be proclaimed as incontrovertible. Nor can it be wise to use it (especially in new Constitutions) as it would have the power to undermine the valid claim to attachment that 40 or 50,000 years certainly brings even in the face of a nominal culture made up of numerous nations and beliefs and changing notionally defined, even overlapping, "territories."

    We, that is, WE, have such a rich long history of involvement with this place. To relish that as we go forward would be a path of beauty.
    MacI
    26th Jan 2019
    7:02pm
    I can hardly believe the scorn and at times petty jealously, and even bitterness towards Aboriginals expressed in some of the commentary. It is so graceless and lacking in insight as to the plight of Aboriginals. Why not, for the sake of unity, acknowledge that the landing of the First Fleet was the start of the dispossession of the Aboriginals land and culture and show them grace by changing to a day that all Australians can celebrate.

    Until we walk in the shoes of our Aboriginal brothers and sisters or at least along side them as Kennet did we have we no idea of the despair and disfunction than has been passed down through the generations as a result of dispossession.
    musicveg
    26th Jan 2019
    7:19pm
    Well said Macl, I applaud you for understanding what I have been trying to say and have been shot down on every comment. I am watching NITV tonight at 8.30 to understand more of their story.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    27th Jan 2019
    11:29am
    The Aboriginals themselves are to blame for all of the bitterness toward them. Their constant blame game and demands for over-indulgence and sympathy is offensive in the extreme. Their dishonest claims of 'invasion' offend. Their ingratitude for the good we have done for them offends. The unfair favouritism they claim offends.

    The fact is that we came here and made it home, and in the process, there was, sadly, abuse of superior power that disadvantaged Aboriginals. Get over it. We have done much to make amends, and we continue to do so. But the blame and hatred showered down on us is creating division. The denial of our right to celebrate our history and our culture is creating division.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    27th Jan 2019
    11:31am
    Some race was going to take possession of Australia. That's a given. The Dutch or Chinese would have wiped out the Aboriginal population completely. They should be grateful that it was the British who came!

    When they accept that EQUALITY and HARMONY means an end to the blame game and anger and resentment and acceptance of the olive branch that has been extended to them, with respect for our rights, the bitterness will end. Not until.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    27th Jan 2019
    11:37am
    I should correct my first statement. The radical activists among the Aboriginals are to blame. And the vast number of whites who support their radical demands. Most Aboriginals are getting on with building a better life for themselves and their families, and celebrating the day that gave them such a rich opportunity to improve their living conditions.

    We acknowledge the wrongs of the past. Denying others the right to celebrate a momentous event won't change the past or improve the future. But one thing is certain. The offensive speeches and posters and protest marches WILL increase the bitterness and anger toward a people who, for the most part, don't agree with the blame game, don't feel hatred, and don't deserve the hurt the loud-mouthed selfish protesters are causing them.
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    1:46pm
    Strange OGR from what I have heard was that there were many visitors from Dutch, Portugese, Chinese and I think Spaniards who all dropped into Australia on several voyages and were welcomed but never took over the land. It was the British who were looking for a penal colony to appease their over-crowding jails in the UK and who then decided to settle the land rather than ship them all back when their time was done.
    MacI
    27th Jan 2019
    6:12pm
    "Most Aboriginals are getting on with building a better life ...". Disease 2 to 3 times that of non-indigenous Australians, suicide rates 6 times that of non-indigenous Australians, 28% of the prison population is Aboriginal (Aboriginals are just 3% of Australia's population), percentage of Aboriginal youth in prison who have been sexually assaulted as children is 70%, infant mortality 2 to 3 times that of non-indigenous Australians, average life expectancy 10 years less than non-indigenous, percentage of adult Aboriginals who are unemployed after reaching Year 12 education level 10.4% - non-indigenous 3.6%, unemployment rate gap between Aboriginals and non-indigenous 12.6%, home-ownership about half that of non-indigenous.

    Get real!
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    7:02pm
    Yes those statistics are shocking, and it is sad that people think they have the same opportunities when so many are suffering. There is a lot of hidden truths that need to come out for people to understand and if we keep ignoring it, it will not go away. The bitterness and hatred will continue until we see justice for Indigenous people, they still don't even have a treaty despite all the promises in the past (Australia is the only country that has not one for their first nation people).
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    27th Jan 2019
    8:00pm
    And those statistics are a result of hatred and blame toward the white man and refusal to try to integrate and adopt the lifestyle and standards of modern Australia. If we took a cross section of poor whites, we would see similar statistics. If we look at those raised in institutions, for example, we find that the majority have served time in jail and suffer shocking health problems, chronic unemployment, high suicide rates, high incidents of broken marriages and child neglect, poor education, poor rates of home ownership. We would do far better to stop making it about race and make it about need.
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    8:32pm
    I am not sure they have not tried to integrate into modern Australia, they never got the same opportunities until just recently, and yes I agree there are many white suffering the same fate. Maybe it was that in the past they were forced too quickly to integrate and besides the British did not try to integrate with them apart from raping many of their women. Yes we do need to help everyone in need but society judges too harshly those that have fallen to the wayside. But in WA, NT and QLD there is no doubt the Indigenous people are treated much more harshly by the justice system.
    MacI
    28th Jan 2019
    7:12am
    OGR. You raise the example of the dysfunction and disadvantage experienced by white people who were raised in institutions. While I can't find specific statistics to back up your claim I don't doubt that you are right. The abuse and neglect suffered by children raised in many institutions is well documented and with this out in the open society has no excuse not to do whatever needs to be done to protect children from this abuse and neglect.

    And yet while you agree that dysfunction and disadvantage for white people raised in institutions is a consequence of their experience for Aboriginals the root of their problems in your view is hatred and blame towards white man. Very simplistic!

    If indeed there is hatred and blame towards white man could this not be symptomatic of their lived experience rather than the cause. (I don't know if this is a generally held view amongst Aboriginals - certainly I have not experienced hatred from the Aboriginals that I know). I am quite sure that many white people who experienced abuse and neglect in institutions have a dim view of the society that allowed this to happen to them and who could blame them.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    1st Feb 2019
    9:58am
    Yes, Macl, but the difference is that we don't see white people abused in institutions demanding that others give up THEIR celebration days and go to the ends of the earth with apologies, rewrites of history, and over-indulgent reparation and compensation. Like MOST Aboriginals, they simply get on with life peacefully and with the goal of promoting harmony. It's a few ratbag radicals who are demanding a date change. And they don't help their cause by displaying posters that declare hatred and say 'Change the Date... we still won't celebrate'. They simply prove that the date isn't relevant and they are just out to cause upset.
    sybilla
    27th Jan 2019
    12:41am
    Genuine Rainy, I appreciate your comments. They are thoughtful, sensitive and balanced. Indeed, quite a feat in the midst of this complex and emotional issue.
    A question I'd like to ask is for how much longer must we keep weeping and wailing and expressing our "toxic white guilt?"
    ex PS
    27th Jan 2019
    9:14am
    I don't trust decisions made because of feelings of guilt, they are often without reasoning or logic.
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    1:47pm
    OGR's comments are full of hatred towards Indigenous people.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    27th Jan 2019
    7:56pm
    No, musicveg. I have no hatred in me. Most Aboriginals (the term "Indigenous'' does not set them apart, as ALL native-born Australians are 'Indigenous. It means 'native') are honest, decent, hard working, respectful people. It's the haters and blamers that I can't tolerate.
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    8:23pm
    I did not say you were full of hatred OGR, just your comments.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    1st Feb 2019
    9:52am
    That's how you CHOO
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    1st Feb 2019
    10:02am
    Stupid website crashed!
    That's how you CHOOSE to interpret my comments, musicveg, because my opinion differs from yours. But you are WRONG. I have Aboriginals in my family and among my friends. I love and admire them. Most are decent, honest, hardworking and intent on promoting harmony. And most are quite content for Australia Day to be on Jan 26. It's the radicals who are causing upset, mostly for the sake of causing upset. I notice that the trouble-makers are all on welfare, dirty, and have a raft of bad habits and victim mentalities. Sad, really. They do their people a grave disservice.
    ex PS
    27th Jan 2019
    9:06am
    I am not convinced that changing the date will solve the problem, their are people out there that have made a career out of finding things to carp about.
    If we go down that road though, I suggest we need to rethink the whole process. Instead of trying to find a significant date to match the likes of a majority of the population which will surely displease some for that very reason. Try and find a set of dates that are completely meaningless to every one, put them in a barrel and draw one out.
    What then, other than the process will anyone have to complain about, let's face it, the colonization date of Australia was by pure chance anyway, no one in that day and age could have predicted when the first boat people would have arrived.
    But as I have said, I see no reason to change the date if it accomplishes nothing anyway.
    As per the very first comment on this subject, we could suspend the celebration of Australia Day until all parties agree on a date, problem solved, we will never have another one to worry about.
    Adrianus
    28th Jan 2019
    10:01am
    "I am not convinced that changing the date will solve the problem," exps

    Has anyone actually bothered to find out what the problem is???
    LJ
    27th Jan 2019
    10:18am
    Who knows why Kennett is jumping on the protester bandwagon? He has unswervingly acted like the has-been politician, on the lookout for number one.

    The 'invasion day' demonstrators are overwhelmingly white, inner city and doubtless egged on by Green Left. Greens is a protest party (Gillard's description when she was in government with them) and protesting is what Greens do.

    This isn't about a date. It is any excuse to protest and stir the pot.

    How many indigenous would be for turning the clock back and living in a time-warp bubble, the way that the green left want them to be and denying themselves the advantages and ease of modern living? How would women and children fare if the black curtain descended again and they were left entirely at the mercy of those drunken, molesting thugs that were able to escape publicity and police attention for so many decades after Whitlam's failed indigenous autonomy social experiment? Look at the present-day example of Tennant Creek and other communities where political correctness still allows disgusting offences to be committed while activists and politicians like Kennett make political capital for themselves out of a date.
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    1:50pm
    You have no understanding of the problems of the Indigenous people, try watching some documentaries on NITV and educate yourself.
    LJ
    27th Jan 2019
    2:56pm
    musicveg,

    Sidestepping the issues, such as the predominately white professional stirrer make-up of the 'invasion day'(sic) demonstrations doesn't wash with anyone. -It is the Green Left acting up as per usual, isn't it?

    However, it does prove that you have no arguments in return.
    fey
    27th Jan 2019
    3:56pm
    Quite apart from the Invasion Day protesters that you seem to resent is the feeling by those from other Australian states that there is an undue emphasis on 26 January and that it should be a Sydney/NSW-based foundation day commemoration.
    LJ
    27th Jan 2019
    5:18pm
    fey,

    Like musicveg, you sidestep and try to poison the well against other posters.

    Moving the goalposts will not help you and that one about the supposed feeling other States in inventive, but complete rot. The Green Left are at it again?
    musicveg
    27th Jan 2019
    1:54pm
    Interesting to read some of the comments from this debate on last years post about changing the date to July, not much has changed except there are many more comments this year which shows this debate is becoming bigger.

    Meanwhile back at the ranch.................
    Scomo wants to spend nearly $50 M on reenacting something that never quite happened (the circumnavigation part):

    https://www.change.org/p/scott-morrison-stop-the-govt-spending-almost-50m-on-commemorating-cooks-first-voyage?
    fey
    27th Jan 2019
    4:02pm
    What a hoot our scomo is! And after all that money spent on WW1 commemorations, memories, museums, etc., in Europe over the last several years, it seems we still have buckets left over to create a fantasy about CC. And it's our taxes paying for this nonsense.

    It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
    4b2
    29th Jan 2019
    9:25am
    On reflection and after a great long week end which was just that nothing to celebrate. My wife and I decided that May 27 is the ideal date for celebrating Australia Day. This date after all was the day all Australians who had the right to vote include our indigenous people as full citizens of Australia after 200 years of ignorance and same on our part.
    Lets us start the debate.
    musicveg
    29th Jan 2019
    1:09pm
    I like that, great idea.
    musicveg
    29th Jan 2019
    6:32pm
    Free ride for Indigenous people, are you sure?

    https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/culture/article/2016/12/07/heres-truth-about-free-ride-some-australians-think-indigenous-peoples-get?cx_cid=edm:myweek:19

    An interesting article that shows how students think, and I am guessing they get this from their misinformed parents and possibly grandparents.
    Dot
    29th Jan 2019
    9:43pm
    Butt out Kennett you have had your day. You the one that started the privatization of tax payer assets not yours but tax payers. As I see it Politicians are nothing but temporary public servants who have sold this country off, now you want to change the date of Australia Day.
    Let us enjoy it while it lasts because when the new owners take over this country no one will have a bloody say or protest.
    musicveg
    29th Jan 2019
    9:47pm
    What new owners? Nothing wrong with changing the date, only been this date for 24 years, I like 4b2's ideas to change it to May 27th. Any other suggestions?
    ex PS
    30th Jan 2019
    8:59am
    The 29th. of February. 75% less chance of anyone finding fault with that date.
    professori_au
    30th Jan 2019
    5:26pm
    The date of Australia Day is irrelevant. The past, unfortunately is the past. However, with most of the people of the Commonwealth agreeing we must recognise our indigenous people and grant them the respect they are entitled any day should/will suffice. But there must be genuine intent on both sides to come together. People like Kennett I have difficulty accepting his intentions as genuine; he did enough harm to the people of Victoria and did little to make the life of the ordinary people better off. He was an advocate for the rich and powerful, so how can we accept as genuine a complete about face. He sold out Victorians and did little for the indiiginous people during his time in parliament. As founder of Beyond Blue the organisatio did little for those in need. It certainly paid large sums to some. Time for him to leave the public arena and allow those with genuine intent to create a mutually acceptable resolution. We recognise the indiginous people in our Constitution, despite a rocky start, so why are they being treated less than anyone else in Australia. Even rufugees appear to be better treated. Treating aboriginals as children that must be told how, when and where is an insult. Time to stop the political parties from using the issue as a poltical tool for the benefit of the parties and their vested interests. Time to provide equal education, health and medical and dental care. Time to provide research into where manufacturing and other employment opportunies could be made available. With the mineral resources and agreement of the aboriginal people there is an opportunitty to value add and keep the money in Australia. The poltical parties make offers of substantial funding, yet the money does not appear to reach the people it needs to. Our governments were only too happy to take aboriginal people into the army, but once having served the country were not too interested in giving them recognition. That ook some time to achieve. Time for change to a just system that recognises the rights of ALL people in the Commonwealth of Australia.
    musicveg
    30th Jan 2019
    5:59pm
    Well said professori. There have been many promises to help the Indigenous people, grants and money going everywhere except to them, seems to end up with the "providers" or "organizations" or "paperwork".
    LJ
    31st Jan 2019
    3:16am
    If there is to be truth-telling, many of those individuals and 'organisations', NGOs, that are diverting and wasting the funds allocated by government are indigenous or indigenous controlled.

    As for unnecessary 'paperwork', the ANAO - the federal government's own auditor - has made many findings and simple recommendations over years to improve the accountability that is usually lacking and flagrantly disregarded in some communities. The ANAO reports are tabled in the federal Parliament and are easily researched.

    I leave it to readers to imagine why some indigenous elders and leaders might not wish to have any accountability for the proper use of the millions of taxpayer dollars that are allocated annually.
    ex PS
    31st Jan 2019
    9:25am
    Give money to an organization and not require them to fill out paperwork? Do this and it won't matter if the recipients are green, pink, blue or white, most of it will end up in the pockets of themselves or friends and relatives.
    There is not enough accountability in this country when it comes to spending the Taxpayers money.
    If an individual can not account for a budget, they should not be put in charge of one, better still, no one individual should be allowed to purchase and spend taxpayers money, there should be at least a two person process. One person allocates the funds and another releases them.
    Wasting money is no way to help anyone.
    professori_au
    31st Jan 2019
    10:17am
    The question abbout what benefits the Aboriginal people gained? Well what did they gain? They were/are a nomadic culture, living off the land that they managed effectively so as not to exploit it. Western culture brought diseases that the aboriginal people had never had contact as a result wipe out so many. Mixing poisons in the flour and sugar is another benefit the settlers brought with them. Massacres; Guns were more than a match against a primitive people, yet to my understanding the aboriginal people did not lose their fight for their rights, only through cruelty, poisons and corrupt governments. Their culture claims they are gardians of the land. White settlement/culture is not the be end of life. Why should we enforce our lifestyle on other people. The paternalistic approach insulting. "Handouts" are provided to other communities in Australia and they are required to provide accountability and transparency for its use. We have failed them by denying proper health care to overcome some of the damages white settlement caused, failed to educate, either in their own culture or western. ( their choice). I do not see a problem here, when funding is conditional on it reaching those intended to assist. However, the history of our treatment has been a history of neglect, paternalism, attempted genicide via the stolen generation, treating them as not human but part of the plant and fauna of the country. You cannot expect those growing up under "white man" rules to behave any differently than the role models set. I agree there is a need for some sort of monitoring of the use of the "peoples" money and that it does not stay in the sticky hands of the corrupt. that is no different from what we expect from funding other communities, so do not use it as an excuse for what has happened. We are all equal regardless of colour, race or culture and no-one should be treated differently from others or preyed upon. Respect their rights just as we expect those to respect our rights. Working together will be of benefit to all and allow this country to become a respected nation and hopefully provide a role model for others to emulate.


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