7th Aug 2017

Proposal to ‘strip’ village residents of rights

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Draft strips retirees’ rights
Olga Galacho

Senior residents have slammed proposed Victorian legislation for the retirement village sector saying it reinforces big companies’ power to lord over those who own freehold titles in their communities.

Late last week, the Victorian minister with oversight for the retirement village sector, Marlene Kairouz, released a long overdue draft of laws aimed at clarifying the rights and obligations of retirement village managers and residents.

The proposed laws follow a lengthy inquiry into whether retirement village residents were being exploited by corporate managers in the sector.

A recent joint Fairfax News and ABC Four Corners probe revealed many residents were being discriminated against by Aveo, one of the larger retirement village operators, through complex contracts and reported gouging with high fees.



YourLifeChoices has asked the Minister’s office to clarify what appears to be a capitulation to the interests of large retirement village managers over the rights of freehold owners.

Residents have told YourLifeChoices that the draft laws are full of flaws that will inevitably lead to the erosion of their rights. They said this was not what they expected after lobbying for greater transparency of village managers’ obligations to protect the rights of unit owners.

One resident said Minister Kairouz’s draft laws are so ineptly worded that they confuse freehold owners with management companies that are merely contracted to operate villages.

Among the contentious clauses in the proposed legislation is the right bestowed on a management company to eject a freehold owner of a village unit.

Ms Jan Reilly, an owner at Aveo Northcote’s Veronica Gardens, said the draft states that she can be forcibly removed from her home to another location if the management deems it appropriate.

“If (the owner and or manager) exercises a right to relocate the resident to other premises with the consent of the resident, the resident must not withhold consent unreasonably,” Ms Reilly said about the laws.

In a letter to local MP Fiona Richardson, she wrote: “I am bringing this to your attention because I am appalled that the regulations give this much power to the manager.

“As a resident I can be seen to be behaving ‘unreasonably’ if I don’t want to move elsewhere,” she wrote.

Former Australian diplomat John Lander said he was forced to exit his freehold unit after being treated unfairly by Aveo management.

Recently, Mr Lander told federal opposition MP for Batman David Feeney that if the proposed Victorian legislation was enacted “it would make the already bad situation even worse”.

“The draft reads as if it were written by the industry operators and not from the perspective of the retirees.  It does not go anywhere near resolving the conflict between the rights of a freehold owner and the company’s aim to extract maximum profit from the property,” he said.

When Mr Feeney met with Veronica Gardens residents recently, he told them the federal Labor Party wanted to lobby the Turnbull government to adopt nationwide rules to protect retirement village residents.

“It is astonishing that the Victorian Government would draft legislation to make lawful the infringement of existing rights,” Mr Lander said.

“The proposed controls and restrictions on retirement village residences are only defensible if the residences are owned by the company and not by the resident,” Mr Lander said.

“In the current form of the draft the term ‘owner’ is used solely to describe a party who is a manager of a retirement village. This is totally inadequate … I refer to those people who hold a freehold title to their units and as such are owners.

“Because the term ‘owner’ is used in the draft only to indicate a person or entity who is managing a village, the clauses using the term do not apply to freehold owners and therefore provide protection for managers and not residents,” he said.

“In view of this, this draft needs a major rewrite, or an entirely new document needs to be written which recognises the freehold title ownership of residents and protects their rights.

“They do not merely hold a ‘right to reside’, they hold a freehold title,” Mr Lander said.

Opinion: The Minister is double-crossing her constituents

A relative of mine has lived in an Aveo retirement village as an independent resident for nearly 12 years. For four of those years I was her proxy on the Owners Corporation Committee and I can attest to the fact that the management thwarted her rights as a freehold title owner.

Just when the Victorian Government had an opportunity to protect the rights of retirement village residents from the gouging ways of managers and operators of these communities, one has to ask why the chance was squandered.

It seems from the reading of Minister Marlene Kairouz’s draft legislation that she has pandered to the vested interests of wealthy companies such as Aveo, among other listed property companies, over and above the vulnerable elderly citizens she was elected to protect.

But worse, Minister Kairouz’s draft ridiculously confuses the definition of an owner of a retirement village unit. Her proposed laws incorrectly define owners as the corporate manager, ignoring the fact that in many cases the owner is a resident with a freehold title.

What ensues is a babble of recommendations wrongfully bestowing rights to the wrong party. Who wrote this draft legislation? Clearly it was not someone who understood the nuances of who ‘owns’ a retirement village property and who ‘operates’ it. Two very distinct propositions.

What is more galling is that this example of the Government’s ineptitude comes against the backdrop of an Australian Competition and Consumer Commission investigation into Aveo and the wider retirement village sector.

That probe was prompted after revelations that some operators were treating residents very  poorly.

The bottom line is that this proposed legislation is ridiculously ignorant of how the sector works in reality. The minister and her minions need to go back to the drawing board.

Over the coming days, weeks and months, YourLifeChoices will be putting the blow torch to the belly of a government who is in bed with corporate interests, despite the fact that these companies are ripping off the very constituents who elected the government.

Do you have a bad experience after dealing with retirement village operators? Do you feel your rights would be protected by government laws if you bought into a retirement village?

Related articles:
ACCC to investigate Aveo                
Retirement village residents want class action
Minister responds to Aveo scandal





COMMENTS

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MICK
7th Aug 2017
10:41am
The retirement industry has been well understood for many decades but nothing has ever been done to fix the issues. This is the next piece of legislation designed to strip them of their rights. What both the industry and the government do not get is that retirees are PAYING CUSTOMERS and as such should have rights. Instead we see governments accepting electoral donations and the industry writing the next piece of legislation............for itself.

Federal Labor needs to come out and make promises it will keep. What a wonderful way to get votes and find itself in government.
Eddy
7th Aug 2017
10:54am
It just goes to illustrate that the pandering to the wealthy interests (with their large political donations) is not limited to only one side of politics.
It's about time we got rid of state governments, we are only about 23 million population yet we have eight governments with hundreds of unnecessary politicians sucking on the public teat.
Jannie
7th Aug 2017
10:54am
You are joking MICK no government makes promises and follows through.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:01pm
Many have in the past Janine. You are talking about the last 2 federal governments which have taken lying to a new level.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
3:39pm
Yee-usssh - but are they core lies or non-core lies? That's the real point, isn't it?
MICK
7th Aug 2017
4:36pm
That seems to be the way they are trying to hide their blatant lies.
Jannie
7th Aug 2017
10:52am
I have considered buying in to a lifestyle village but do not trust any of them. After doing the number crunching I would end up financially worse off. So I will stay where I am and just look on as the government makes more mistakes.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:02pm
Good decision.
bebby
7th Aug 2017
3:12pm
Janine, I totally agree with your decision. I have personal experience.
Tib
7th Aug 2017
4:07pm
I agree we were looking at a retirement village but we wouldnt touch one now!
Golden Oldie
7th Aug 2017
6:34pm
Two years ago I told my financiak advisor that I was moving, having just sold my house. Is question, and my answer re retirement villages was blunt and to the point. 'Bottomless financial pits.'
TREBOR
9th Aug 2017
5:30pm
The retirement village industry is a cruel and shallow plastic money trench in which good men and women die miserable and lonely deaths while low-class dogs run free at the top of the chain ... then there is a down side to it as well.

With apologies to Hunter S Thompson... who said much the same about television....
Dee
7th Aug 2017
11:06am
The retirement village operators are their own worst enemy. It would be quite foolhardy to opt for this type of accommodation these days. I foresee their rapid demise????
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:03pm
Agree. When the customers stop coming they will be looking for new jobs. Maybe political careers?
heyyybob
7th Aug 2017
11:25am
As one who is seriously considering moving into this area of residency soon, I am following this with great interest and will also be interested to read comments in this forum :)
Rae
7th Aug 2017
12:03pm
A relative recently moved into a luxury village and regrets it badly. Not only did it cost her dearly but there is no going back now. Her weekly fees have increased to $240 and as the main reason she moved was for maintenance she now realises $12000 a year is a lot of gardening, cleaning etc if she had stayed in her home. The move cost over $70 000 in costs.
heyyybob
7th Aug 2017
12:06pm
WOW :( Thanks 4 sharing Rae.
Maggie
7th Aug 2017
12:10pm
Hi hevvybob,

I live in a not-for profit retirement village and can recommend that you look for one too. The monthly rates here are $511 which cover water, maintenance, the salaries of the village nurses and the upkeep of large lawns and gardens.

At the time of purchase I was told that the management attempts to keep the rates to about 25% of the aged pension which I think is an admirable goal.

The larger the village the better in terms of facilities. In mine we have a cafe, hairdresser, pathology, libraries, doctors visiting twice a week, excercise classes opticians visiting indivdual independent units and audiologists who visit regularly. We also have physiotherapists working here. In addition we have plenty of caravan parking, availability of a vegetable patch, bowls, croquet, art and pottery classes and sewing circles, card playing groups, a book club and regular entertainment. We have a fully equipped gym and a shop which supplies everyday requirements and fresh vegetables grown by the residents. We have a workshop, a nursery and our own op shop.

We can have small gardens or not around our units.

We have a village bus service which takes us to two different shopping centres every day, and also around the village at meal times for those who wish to eat in the cafe and live a little distance away.

We buy in on a lifetime rental basis and after five years we lose about 30% of the original price of our units. Seeing that they are very affordable in the first place I do not regard this as outrageous.

Nowhere is perfect and so there are drawbacks: one sees mainly older people as opposed to being surrounded by people of all ages. And of course because of the proximity of the dwellings there is not as much privacy as one would like - one's comings and going are noted by some of the more housebound of us (this is normal, and totally forgiveable - as one's capacity to get out and about decreases, one's main source of entertainment is what is close to hand.)

If you do move, taking your time to get to know people and maintaining your personal privacy are important. I wish you luck.
heyyybob
7th Aug 2017
12:26pm
Thank you Maggie :) Sounds similar to what I'm looking at, although is not quite as large as yours. BUT, sounds very good, great input to the forum :D
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:06pm
Interesting account Maggie. What are the exit fees like as this is where relatives are pension stripped? Not much made of these at the time and people going in only find out if they want to leave before they die.
Cat
7th Aug 2017
11:28am
Bestowing owner whip to the wrong party, thus robbing ownership from the purchaser, is committing a form of property theft. I am not surprised that a Victorian Government Minister would do this because I have recently found out how viciously corrupt Vic Gov entities, agencies, ministers and departments are after being deliberately defrauded by a Vic Gov funded institution who stole my money and refuses to deliver. Every gov agency, including the Vic Premier made deliberately corrupt responses that had no relevance to the fraudulent acts that would ensure that the institution will continue to get away with it and keep doing it. The Vic Gov is literally favoring and funding criminal behaviour that is deliberately set out to victimise the public.

Marlene Kairouz’s conduct of drafting legislation that commits property theft of residents should come under the scrutiny of the Dept of Prime Minister and Cabinet - but in my experience that dept is just as bad and could only be relied on to ignore the legal rights of the public. No one in government is there with the aim of rightfully serving the public, they are just there to serve themselves.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
11:32am
Kind of like royal commission into NSW Police - the first thing the Car 'government' did was increase police powers, so that suddenly anyone who made a complaint was 'resisting' and 'assaulting' them, and zero tolerance meant just throw the book at anyone regardless of facts, knowing full well that the corrupt courts would support any fanciful story.

Never trust a government here in this nation with anything requiring trust and truth and honest dealing.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:09pm
Whilst you have a point TREBOR the NSW Police Force seems to be one of the better ones. Look at Victoria. Been a dog's breakfast for decades as like in the US they shoot first and ask questions later.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
3:45pm
Sorry about the errors - getting over that killer flu. The NSW police are beginning to come good after a lot of mentoring from a few good men.... but there are still pockets of rats that need to be dug out and sacked - especially in remote rural areas, where they still have redneck 'magistrates' who are just as big liars and thieves as the cops are.

The sad truth is that the flame-outs and the failures and the plain fork-ups (remember the chick who was chasing 'abos' on public TV) from the Big smoke are sent to these quiet areas of the front for a rest cure, and they often wreak terrible harm on ordinary folk - especially when they are building a portfolio for their early retirement on disability as their way out ... they often set people up just to make it look as if they are copping it hard, when it is they doing the harm. Small village up N'England way copped one of those - within a week he was hated from one end of town to the other.

Still a long way to go.

I've long labeled Victoria The Shooting Gallery.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
4:37pm
True....but have you been watching the police in America. Shoot first, ask questions later and then they are acquitted for what is paramount to murder.
Crimmo
7th Aug 2017
11:46am
The problem with Lifestyle villages is that you must be fully independent. I looked through a Lifestyle village unit available for sale, just out of interest. The unit had only recently been purchased, however the purchaser had a health setback immediately after the purchase, meaning that she could never move in to her new home and had to sell. She was no longer fully independent, requiring assistance. The other issue with retirement villages, as some village residents have said to me, is that you do not move into retirement villages as an investment. You move into them as a 'way of life'.
Travellersjoy
7th Aug 2017
12:00pm
Sounds as if the 'experts' in the sector wrote the legislation.

This is how so many of our laws are passed with gaping holes in accountability, responsibility and morality that the powerful drive through to maximise profits and minimise tax and responsibility for ethical practices.

If this legislation is passed into law, they will defend themselves by claiming, accurately, that their latest iniquitous action is 'legal'.

Does even a Labor government not consult with constituents any more? Are the only experts on anything the vested interests and power brokers?

Get onto it Daniel! Too many more of these and your halo will be slipping badly.
KSS
7th Aug 2017
12:24pm
I thought Daniel's halo was already a noose!
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:13pm
Criminal big businesses writing their own legislation has been the trend for a while now Travellersjoy. The recent Trade deal with the US was clearly written by multinationals as the right to sue our government would never be put in by any Australian government.
This is what happens when you accept money from crooks and the current government is up to their eyeballs in this sort of betrayal with the media not saying a word and ordinary Australians wondering why they are being thrown to the wolves.
Rae
7th Aug 2017
4:57pm
It is unbelievable that Robb signed all those deals that disadvantage Australian workers. Then went off to a $800 000 job with a company he signed us up with. Not a word said about it.

And where's Baird? What's he getting now?

At least two books there for the game and very brave.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
8:32pm
And now working for the coal industry earning $800,000 pa? Did I hear that correctly?
Rae
8th Aug 2017
7:02am
Not coal MICK but a Chinese owned Corporation. Ports and shipping perhaps?
Linda
8th Aug 2017
10:22am
When the whole my aged care changes were rolled out, I think the industry did write most of the plans. There are some good operators out there, but too many who are only looking at how to raid our bank accounts. The organisations that are supposed to help us, seem like toothless tigers who kow tow to government and are unable to make a good case. Once one is in the grips of a bad operator, it is difficult to disengage, and I think this will eventually change. Especially if we persistently make a big fuss about it.
Eliza
7th Aug 2017
12:26pm
If we don't pull together and get this breathtaking corruption of the rights of property owners in retirement villages sorted out and locked down legally ... we are headed down a very dark road for this countries senior citizens. We are an aging society and the AVARICIOUS vultures from far and wide are circling ... we MUST stand together and fight for our rights while we still can. Mass demand (letters, emails, rallies etc,) on political powers ... in all states and indeed federally is needed. We do have the power (at this stage) we need to use it ... it is our future, everyone of us.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:14pm
We could start our own with a model the commercial operators were not permitted to out and put the bastards out of business.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
3:51pm
The ex's cousin in SA is a board member (unpaid) on a christian one, and their rules are significantly different - freeholders OWN their property and can sell it on in their own right - as seems right to me. The operator (correct word) runs the show/management etc, and is paid management fees.

THAT is why the AVEO and such deals are WRONG, and this needs to be properly laid down in law. You pay for the management - not as rent on your own property, and under no circumstances can I see any operator being entitled to dictate to you that you must sell at a certain price and only to the operator first, thus permitting the operator to take a fee for selling, a fee for operating the sale=, and then taking possession and putting the same unit back on sale at three times the price.

No Way, Jose`!! Maybe in china, sonny - but we are not yet ready to be Shanghai'd into that kind of vulture business mode.

Love it or leave!! And I want it retrospective... pay back those you've robbed, you thieving Oriental devils.

Where is a government with balls these day (none since The Invasion Of the Snatch Embodiers with their demand for at least 50% control and the focus on 'their' 'rights' and other ideological rubbish that has no real place in politics pure - wrong - government does not HAVE control - it has duties to perform).
MICK
7th Aug 2017
4:40pm
Just remember that ELECTORAL DONATIONS will give you anything you want. This is why corruption flourishes and why people are abused with little ever changing to fix a known issue.
It's not that the bastards do not have balls. It's just that they are conflicted and been bought. Effectively owned by money interests whilst expecting the electorate to pay their salaries and retirement benefits.
disillusioned
7th Aug 2017
12:28pm
No way I'd go into one of those retirement villages after watching 4 Corners - I'd rather struggle on in my home unit until I can't get up the stairs any more and then I'll just curl up and die here. The elderly are being given a rough deal by this LNP government and Big Business!
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:16pm
Pass on the news disillusioned. Others need to hear about it. The more people who avoid these hell villages the sooner they go broke and the industry is reformed.
Rae
8th Aug 2017
7:04am
The problem seems to be in the luxury end of the market. There are villages where you can rent the unit. They may be worth a look.
mike
7th Aug 2017
12:46pm
Politicians are only interested in the next 4 years and filling their own back pockets. How nuch of this will filter into the ministers own back pockets from Aveo? Remember, it is NOT called a bribe when corruption fills a politicians back pocket, it is called donating money for their re election campaign, and the Victorian minister can just claim he merely stuffed it up unintentionally whilst laughing all the way to the bank.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
3:54pm
The 'minister' for nothing is not a 'he', mike - it's one of those caring, nurturing females who are so desperately needed in parliaments so as to offer new perspectives on how to throw the babies out with the bathwater while ensuring that your donors never do it hard, and your own pockets are lined for life.
Rae
7th Aug 2017
5:03pm
Do caring. nurturing females have the ruthlessness to achieve well in politics? Thatcher, Merkel come to mind but I'd doubt they'd have those qualities at all.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
5:51pm
I'm saying that we are sold that line as being a plus for women in politics... anyone who's ever lived with a woman knows they play hardball better than any man... and they hold all the cards....
floss
7th Aug 2017
12:54pm
This present Government seems determined to trash retirement for most Australians we hope the next Federal Government will be a little more sympathetic to our plans.A lot of retirees seem lost to understand just what is going on.
arbee
7th Aug 2017
1:08pm
Floss, this present federal government has hurt a lot of pensioners, but don't blame them for what the Victorian state labour government are doing in this situation. There appears to be a lack of concern for the elderly from all levels of government irrespective of which party is in power.
Old Geezer
7th Aug 2017
1:32pm
Federal Government has not hurt a lot of pensioners at all.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:19pm
Well here come the coalition patriots.

THe current federal government could step in and fix crooked industry overnight. I say to you arbee and OG: find out how much the last 2 governments have received in electoral funding from the industry. The Four Corners expose mentioned $1 million in electoral donations from just one operator. That is why we need a federal ICAC. There is corruption occurring and elected officials are involved.
ex PS
7th Aug 2017
4:27pm
What was that O.G, Baah, baah, baah.
Rae
7th Aug 2017
5:12pm
Not hurt but betrayed a lot of pensioners by changing the rules well into game play. That should be catered for and the no disadvantage rule applied. In this case the refusal to grandfather any caught up in locked in contracts can legitimately be considered betrayal.
Especially when they gave an election commitment to not change superannuation.

There are self funded retirees who would have chosen a different option at retirement and who are disadvantaged by the legislation.

This is poor government when the savings are minimum and the reason ideologic. Most were unionists in union industry funds.
Says it all about the petty minded ness of the current LNP and it's sponsors.
Rosret
7th Aug 2017
1:12pm
So pleased you are taking up the cause. Thank you.
Eliza
7th Aug 2017
1:53pm
GEEZER ... you really must learn ... find a way to face reality ... you seem to be dwelling in a place of utter disconect. Open your eyes, look around ... I mean past your personal biased view ... try to focus on the needs of others ... try to understand that not everyone Is in the same boat. There are many many stories.
Find empathy, find understanding, find kindness and consideration.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:20pm
OG is aligned with coalition governments which, for him, can do no wrong. That is exactly how a problem is never fixed.
Old Geezer
7th Aug 2017
2:24pm
I do look around and see a country with too many people on welfare where enough is never enough. I have learnt and have seen that too much empathy is not good at all as it only encourages laziness and dependence on welfare. I also shake my head at the unbelievable stories I hear and there is no way that even 10% of what they tell is true. Even kindness is not good for a lot of people today as enough is never enough and consideration well people not only expect but dwell upon it. What is there not to understand when one sees all this in our society today?

Who focuses on my needs? No one as others are too focused on their own needs. The more you give the more people take these days.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
3:58pm
Apparently you do, OG - you've got it all worked out, and then rather confusedly you whine that others are so stupid that they haven't done it your way, but choose other ways that you decided you don't like, such as putting their money into a nice home to get the pension you can't get.

According to your figures you don't need anyone to focus on your needs.... you're well covered on all points.

Nobody's on welfare here - we're drawing on our lifetime retirement insurance policy in accordance with the rules.... you could re-shuffle your 'assets' etc and do the same if you wished.... nothing stopping you.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
4:43pm
OG: I look around and see jobs being sold to the third world and 10 applicants for every job. Whilst we have a bludger culture which is thriving it is not as though there are jobs there. And with robotics in the next 30 year that will be much much worse still.
No mention of that from you.
Old Geezer
7th Aug 2017
8:31pm
Trebor you are on welfare nothing more.

Yes I could reshuffle my assets and live in a house I couldn't afford to live in on welfare I guess. Recipe for stupidity no less.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
10:38pm
**laughs**
Puglet
7th Aug 2017
2:04pm
I watched the 4 corners' programs and the almost daily coverage of systematic abuse of the elderly in nursing homes and in even our homes - physical, sexual, financial and emotional and know that by the time we reach 80 almost 85% of us will have dementia making us more helpless than babies. I refuse to be humiliated, demeaned and kept in filthy, inhumane, cruel conditions. Seems to me that assisted suicide is the best option once we can no longer live a safe and productive life.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
2:25pm
There are choices:

1. your family builds a granny flat and looks after you.
2. you pay somebody to come in once a week to clean, fix and garden.
3. you register with government services through your doctor. There are services available to help the elderly to remain in their own homes.

Unless my health forces me into an institution I will never go to one of the deadbeat retirement villages which abuse their charges. Sadly some of us will without realising that the advertising and the reality are normally far removed from each other. Once they have your money and you are caught between a rock and a hard place abuse is common.
Jennie
7th Aug 2017
2:52pm
Puglet, assisted suicide means you need some doctors' permission! And only then if the law permits, which it doesn't. How patriarchal. You must learn how to do-it-yourself.
Puglet
7th Aug 2017
3:15pm
Jennie assistance with suicide doesn't just mean a doctor has to be there even though the Proposed Vic legislation infers that it is. There are all sorts of ways to do it without medical support, some require assistance and others don't. Going to Dignitas requires support which is difficult. You are right though as far as Dignitas is concerned doctors give the final OK and are present when the person takes the drug. BTW even though I am fit and very happy I know exactly how to do it myself and plans are in place 'just in case' and none of it has anything to do with patriarchy.
leek
7th Aug 2017
2:36pm
I am only 59 and I have moved into a private run retirement village. I am so so happy, maintenance fees are $324 per month, and they are goverened by the retirement act as to how much they can raise the price. I still pay council and water rates. But this still works out much lower than many other villages. We have the bus every week day to the shops, sometimes twice a day. Community centre. medical alarms. 2 full time maintnance men. My friend is in a lifestyle place and her maintenance men are not allowed in her place. What is the good of that? Our men change light globes, fix door handles, all those sort of handy men type of jobs. I am a people person. I moved here for a support network as I get older. I was an Avon lady and I had many elderly customers sitting in their own home in the suburbs, with hardly anybody visiting them, and not being able to get out. That not the life for me! if I want to just keep to myslef I can, but if I want to do social things in the village I can. Not all retirement villages are bad. Oh And I OWN the land. I can sell my unit with 2 bedrooms, garage and enclosed back yard through a real estate agent.
leek
7th Aug 2017
2:45pm
Oh and I forgot to add in. My lawyer who has placed a lot of people into retirement villages said to me that my village is the best she has ever seen on paper- going by the contract etc.
She said to me, you are going to be happy there.
Everybody here is happy to be here, and will tell you stories of their friends having it tough in other villages.
I have only found 2 people not happy here and they were placed here by their family/friends. So they didn't get the choice as their health was failing and their family decide that they couldn't be on their own in their big house etc.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
4:44pm
And the village is.......?
micky d.
7th Aug 2017
5:05pm
Leek... your comment is a breath of fresh air !
Like yourself, my wife and I have been living, very happily, in a retirement village for going on 5 years and seem to be sharing very similar experiences. In fact, we think this life-style is fantastic.

The issue here, of course, is the presentation of draft legislation by this shambles of a Victorian Government. It would seem that nearly everything its Leader and Members touch or proposes, rots. I hold very little hope for anything positive to flow from this further shambles.

Back to your retirement village.... Enjoy your happy life and let the naysayers go their own merry ways.

Cheers.
micky d.
7th Aug 2017
5:05pm
Leek... your comment is a breath of fresh air !
Like yourself, my wife and I have been living, very happily, in a retirement village for going on 5 years and seem to be sharing very similar experiences. In fact, we think this life-style is fantastic.

The issue here, of course, is the presentation of draft legislation by this shambles of a Victorian Government. It would seem that nearly everything its Leader and Members touch or proposes, rots. I hold very little hope for anything positive to flow from this further shambles.

Back to your retirement village.... Enjoy your happy life and let the naysayers go their own merry ways.

Cheers.
micky d.
7th Aug 2017
5:05pm
Leek... your comment is a breath of fresh air !
Like yourself, my wife and I have been living, very happily, in a retirement village for going on 5 years and seem to be sharing very similar experiences. In fact, we think this life-style is fantastic.

The issue here, of course, is the presentation of draft legislation by this shambles of a Victorian Government. It would seem that nearly everything its Leader and Members touch or proposes, rots. I hold very little hope for anything positive to flow from this further shambles.

Back to your retirement village.... Enjoy your happy life and let the naysayers go their own merry ways.

Cheers.
Rae
7th Aug 2017
5:35pm
That is fabulous. I gather there are many successful villages both small and large that suit people very well indeed without greed.
floss
7th Aug 2017
2:50pm
Don't be to hard on O.G . he sounds a lonely old person and one day we may be the same.
Old Geezer
7th Aug 2017
6:17pm
Lonely me nope. In fact I same times feel that I wish people would leave me alone for awhile instead.

That said one of those retirement villages would not suit me at all as I would break every rule and have the place in disharmony with days. Poor old dears would not know what hit them. Then again maybe that's what they secretly want who knows.

Life is such fun.
Aussie
7th Aug 2017
6:27pm
All good OG be happy with whatever you do live is only one and we must live it to the max ...........
Here is some Latin music to lift up your spirit is is Spanish but i am sure you will feel the love and happiness on the song ......For you my friend ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiSwus0PV9o&index=6&list=RDRFFK7hun9So

Have fun OG and enjoy the nice girls he he he he
Old Man
7th Aug 2017
3:02pm
I don't understand the use of the word freehold in this context. I was always led to believe that the owner of the land held the freehold, not the person living in a dwelling on that land.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
4:06pm
Umm - the landholder charges fees for management rights - there are two kinds of tenant - those who own outright (freehold) and those who pay rental ...the confusion comes about for the simple reason that the bullies in the front offices have sought to say that since they are the freeholder over the land on which the dwelling sits, they have absolute control over it under any circumstances.

One reason why, when we were looking around for a sot for my disabled ex - I flatly refused to go anywhere near any of those places, and bought a freestanding house.

No way will I have some petty dick in some front office dictating to me what, when, where, why and how I'll do anything, nor will I sacrifice my personal sovereignty to any twerp with a Konzentrationslager Guard mentality, as I saw with an in-law.
Old Man
7th Aug 2017
4:20pm
Thanks TREBOR, my thought was right. How can a person get peace of mind when the owner of the land on which they sit can choose to remove them at a whim. It's a whole lot different to a renter who goes in with a bond and bugger all else. Units in a retirement village costs, in some areas, more than a freestanding house and therefore those spending big bucks need to be protected.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
5:56pm
That 4 Coins program said that 'exit fees' were 20+% - ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY - and then AVEO in particular had a clause that you had to sell to them at their price. One example was a loss of around $45k or so from selling, leaving about $245k or so (from memory - could've been less), and AVEO then put the same property on the market for $660k or something.

THAT is plain robbery.

Now wonder these foreign business people are robbing this nation blind with the connivance of our own governments.

Got to be plenty of brown paper bags in it somewhere.
ex PS
7th Aug 2017
4:25pm
What more do we need to prove that this government holds Retirees in the utmost contempt. where money is concerned this government has no morals.
Don't downsize until you have to and make sure that when you need to go into a facility you have a lawyer go over the contract with a fine tooth comb.
I get the feeling that if the government suggests retirees should do anything we should do the opposite for our own preservation. trust no one.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
4:47pm
Agree. People who blindly go into these villages from a horror movie are either brain dead or have not done due diligence, preferably with a legal person to advise them of the traps.
Priscilla
7th Aug 2017
4:27pm
What a rip off! Who in their right mind would ever consider retirement/lifestyle villages. The only way to live is to OWN your property outright, no apartments or corporate bodies. I would be happy to downsize but would only consider this if the land is included in the sale.

Having looked at the draft legislation incorporating superannuation, if you downsize you would not be able to live near schools or employment hubs or move in with your children. You could not avail yourself of this superannuation either if you live in a caravan park etc.

The suggested legislation is being applauded by people promoting appartments and age care facilities and retirement villages. Obviously these people are all young and have no idea what a struggle it has been to own your own home "lock stock and barrel" and not be dictateted to on how you can live your life.
MICK
7th Aug 2017
4:49pm
The noises from this and the previous governments are bogus. Anybody who 'believes' what they hear has been successfully conned and has set themselves up for highly likely pain, suffering and financial stripping of their assets.
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
5:59pm
Laughable. Been sick as a dog for a week, and the ex is hospital for an op - I left my mobile in the car and the ex couldn't get me so she sent the neighbour to see if I was alive. The neighbour had found the old lady who owned before us dead here... poor soul .. and was petrified at finding another one.

Not me! In bed dead to the world and trying to heal. Just a wee bit of that rotten flu....
Aussie
7th Aug 2017
5:38pm
So we are a democratic country and we all have right and duties .... What a ffff Joke we becoming just incredible this is one more government Hitler style governments .....Hell with all of them ..... Yea all this piss me off big time.

No Bill of Rights (BOR) that is why they can do anything they want
Now we need to support the Greens with the BOR proposal they have on the way maybe this is the beginning for more relaxing future living without the stress of possible changes with retrospective effect .....What a FFF Joke.

But no worries mates our Governments are looking after there jobs not after us ... We need a BOR to get our rights respected by all government officials
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
6:04pm
We are a nation of masters and servants - always been that way until the Union movement took a firm hold and things began to change, a process accelerated by the sacrifices of men in both world wars and others...

Since the last of the major wars, men have fallen into disrepute in the community in many ways, as a direct result of mass immigrations of various non-aussie types, and the never-ending attacks of the feminists and their running dogs bent on national control.

Many of what someone called the (umm - what was a that word) rapacaious business kind, from the ME, Lower Europe, Central Europe, Asia etc - are waiting in the wings to sweep up everything they can get - and our governments have no balls to oppose, but instead take donations to help them in the name of 'development' and 'investment'.

Meanwhile we collapse as a hopelessly divided nation into a new series of master and servant relationships, another process accelerated by government attacks on Unions and workers.

What a load of cods. March on Canberra.
Aussie
7th Aug 2017
6:17pm
TREBOR
I am use to have my rights and duties and I follow all the rules since I arrive here in 1969 was all great peaceful , they call me Bloody Wog he he he all fun nice secure work no worries at all even if I look different was all great and very easy to get a job and been respected no worries.

At the time I was happy with Australian Bill of Rights then I realize that was not a BOR was only the people been nice and respectful for each other even politicians (Not perfect but acceptable) that made our life at lot easier and peaceful.

I love Australia and still do but now the changes are so significant that we need a BOR to be able to support our rights and duties ..... Is not longer like use to be a natural common sense to respect and work with each other in peace ....Now is all American style greed and money money ......

Sorry I am PO at the moment to many thinks are happening that are not good for anybody ....

Sorry Trebor
TREBOR
7th Aug 2017
10:47pm
No problems, Aussie - I hear where you're coming from. Once upon a time we had a 'social contract' that meant people treated each other reasonably if not always fairly - now we NEED guarantees for simple fair play.

Nowadays there is no fair play, and no rules - just every dog trying to eat every other dog. Great comment on my once great country.
Rae
8th Aug 2017
7:18am
I agree Aussie. We do need a Bill of Rights. The Constitution isn't doing the job well enough now. I'm sure Parkes and his group never envisaged the mess of neoliberalism or the possibility our Government would sell all our assets to foreign governments and corporations. They couldn't have seen that in a time of Nationalism.
Aussie
8th Aug 2017
2:53pm
I wonder how many Assets we still have ???? most of the rich mines and other utilities are either totally or partially sold to private corporations most of them American or Chinese so what do we have left ???? just the rubbish ones that only brake even ????.

And nothing we can do absolutely nothing even if you change your vote the new Gov. will do the same ..... Greed Greed and more Greed ..... we are not longer the Lucky country as we use to know it today we are only a 10% lucky the gov's and foreign corporations have taken all .... that is why we are in deep shit today but the Politicians are happy with the results of the mess they have made.....

If we do not responsibly take back our Assets and make a good control of what we have our future will be very dark .....

I read about some South American countries that have taken all there assets back by government legislation (Nationalize there valuable Assets) ..... I will love to see a government resolution to dictate that ..... "Whatever resources we have in Australia should remain in Australia" and manage by Australian corporations on a 51% AU ownership .....

This is happening in many Asian countries and also South American countries and that is why there economics are growing rapidly like China, Thailand, Peru and many other countries that are now keeping there resources inside and sale and manage by locals keeping the profits for the benefit of there countries....
TREBOR
9th Aug 2017
3:12am
God points, Aussie. I've long advocated that Australia, like so many other nations, retain 51% ownership over its 'resources'. Let's be real for a moment - are Australian people so stupid that they can't organise a project and raise the funding for it (unless - hello - such governments as that of china actually promote their own 'business' people with low cost loans etc??? - HELLO!).

I considered buying a hotel on the ocean in Vietnam - I can't do that without a local business owner partner.... nor in any other Asian country...... yet anyone can come here and buy up whatever they want as long as they have the finance - even if it is from their own government and highly subsidised.

Am I wrong? NO! No wonder they all think we're stupid and wide open for the raping.
Fergus
8th Aug 2017
8:39am
Sorry, but what does the draft actually say or propose? Apart from apparently confusing owners and operator/manager, we've been told nothing. Just 1000 words of hyperbole! And the option piece at the end about 12 years in a village and a relative's rights being restricted... any detail? Or just more muck raking?

I've had relatives in villages in Melbourne. One with a big operator and one with a small one. Both have lived wonderful lives there and the staff are closer to them than some of our family. They've kept active in their twilight years and when they've needed someone to help, there's always been someone there.

Are there rules? Sure. Do they make the lives of residents better? I believe so, as I've seen it first hand.
Linda
8th Aug 2017
10:15am
It does seem that one gives away their independence by deciding to move into a retirement village. It would be my very last choice. The industry has too many financial predators in it, and the money folks have is taken, often legally when it is completely unjust. Those big diamond rings and tailored shirts give the game away. The best option is to stay in our own homes and be the captains of our own ship.
Anne Ozzie
8th Aug 2017
10:29am
This proposed legislation smacks of incompetence if not actual corruption!
ex PS
9th Aug 2017
10:47am
It's got to be corruption, nobody is that stupid or incompetent. Somebody's had a free lunch with the Retirement Home Lobby.
I can see the excuses now " I didn't know they were from the Retirement Home Lobby, they were just cousins of a friend of mine".
TREBOR
9th Aug 2017
5:27pm
Typical Labor sheila - once outside of their pet ideologies, such as gay and women's 'rights' and such - they are as inept and indifferent to the real issues as any man.

Gotta get your priorities right - women and gays first.... or the whole world will end...
CiTe
11th Aug 2017
12:24pm
It's all very well to kick up a stink about these new laws & rightly so. They need to be written by fully independent people.
However for those of us trying to sell our parent's existing unit to gain access to our inheritance its a whole other story.
Ours that belonged to our parent has been for sale for a year with no interest. The agent representing the owning village doesn't give two hoots & treats us very poorly! All the while we continue to pay outrageous monthly maintenance fees.
Why would the company's agent help us sell when the company continues to get such fees? Their income is the same no matter who owns the unit. If the agent sell it for us the owning company has to pay the agent a commission. From their point of view that is not viable financial practise.
However, on the other hand & the only thing in our favour is that by not selling it they are not getting the very considerable exit fees (fines or taxes is what I call it) we will have to pay which will amount to around a third of the unit sale price.
dartboard
11th Aug 2017
5:13pm
Happy in my not for profit village. I have chosen lifestyle over money. No kids to leave it to so no bother. Came in with nothing go out with nothing.Plenty will be left for what family i have.
Love the companionship and same as Maggie all same amenities. Love security,peace of mind,no maintenace worries and have plenty money after paying monthly fees.


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