GST and pension changes needed

Pensions, asset test inclusion, superannuation contributions and GST all in the firing line.

GST and pension changes needed

An independent think tank has weighed in on the discussion surrounding the possibility of lifting the Age Pension qualifying age and has gone one step further.

The Grattan Institute has released a proposal which suggests that as well as lifting the Age Pension and superannuation qualifying age to 70, owner-occupied housing should be included in the asset test. And it doesn’t stop there, suggesting that GST be extended to cover fresh food and private spending on health and education. In the report, Balancing budgets: the tough choices we need, there are 20 recommendations which, if adopted, could net $37 billion to boost federal and state budgets.

Grattan Institute Chief Executive Officer, John Daley, conceded that these were difficult decisions to make, but should be given serious consideration, "It would essentially bring our budgets back into black in a sustainable way for at least the next couple of years," he said.

Mr Daley said that although raising taxes was not an easy decision, widening the net of GST could be a profitable solution and ease the burden on state budgets. “One of the problems that the states have got is that most of the tax bases they have are not great tax bases. If they increase those taxes that will tend to reduce the amount people want to work, and the amount people want to invest.”

While the extension of the range of goods which incur GST may not yet be on the agenda, lowering the threshold of goods bought from overseas most certainly is. The country’s treasurers will meet this week to discuss lowering the $1000 threshold which imported goods currently enjoy, assisting local retailers and increasing revenue.

Read more at the ABC.net.au.

Read the Grattan Institute report, Balancing budgets: the tough choices we need

Opinion: Tough times ahead for pensioners

There are few pensioners who would agree that their finances could take any more stress, but it seems they’re fair game if the budgets are to be balanced.

While the Tony Abbott sanctioned Productivity Commission goes about its role of looking at areas where money could be made and saved, the Grattan Institute has apparently already done its work. Extending the GST net to include fresh food and private money spent on health, as well as increasing the Age Pension and superannuation access age to 70 and including the family home in the asset tests were just some of the 20 points raised in the Institute’s report issued on Sunday. While many of these items may not be palatable to those they affect, the $37 billion revenue tag attached may have the Productivity Commission rubbing its hands with glee.

As the Chief Executive Officer of the institute so tritely points out, no one likes raising taxes, but extending the range of goods and services they cover is an easier option.

Raising the Age Pension age and the age at which you can access your superannuation to 70 may seem like a smart thing to do given that it's widely agreed that most people will work past Age Pension age anyway. However, it’s not as simple as that. Ask those who are currently no longer fit to carry on doing their job at 65, or even 60 if they could wait another five or ten years to access their super and Age Pension? I doubt many would be enthusiastic and the chances of them being able to find more suitable employment are also slim.

One of the benefits of working longer is being able to make additional, tax-concessional contributions to superannuation, but the Grattan Institute is also targeting this benefit, with a proposed limit on such concessions.

And for those who perhaps didn’t have the option to pay into superannuation, but instead decided to pay off their mortgage on the family home, it appears this may not have been such a smart move either. If the Institute gets its way then this hard-earned family home may exclude you from receiving any Age Pension if its value is included in the asset test.

So while you’re working longer for less opportunity to secure your financial future in retirement and the safety net of the Age Pension is taken away from you, you’ll also be paying more for the fresh food and health services to keep you fit and able to work. Go figure!

Once again, highly paid analysts have simply looked at the bottom line and how they can improve it. Little thought has been given to the impact on people’s lives. This is why we have a Productivity Commission; a group of qualified people which has been tasked with looking at all aspects of raising revenue and saving money. So while we thank you for your input Grattan Institute, next time, don’t bother.

Do you think any of these suggestions have any merit? Would you be willing to work to 70? Is including the family home in the asset test a wise move?





    COMMENTS

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    26th Nov 2013
    10:09am
    blame labor. If we had managed our surpluses and became a strong creditor nation, the returns from those investments would have reduced the burden on taxpayers.
    all that surplus wittled away by an incompetent and morally bankrupt government
    Nightshade
    26th Nov 2013
    3:55pm
    THE WHOLE WORLD IS AWASH WITH MONEY -
    THE POLITICAL ARENA IN TOTAL HAS WORKED TIRELESSLY TOWARDS THIS MOMENT -
    WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY DO YOU THINK -
    IT WAS EATEN BY GOATS ???????????????
    DON'T BE SILLY ENOUGH TO BUY INTO THE BULLSHIT.
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    4:09pm
    you better stop smokin that weird shit Nightshade.
    tia-maria
    26th Nov 2013
    7:32pm
    Just blame all the politicians OK
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    9:28pm
    FIRST & FOREMOST…… what INDEPENDENT think tank! They are NOT independent…. unless you consider that they are independent from the people of Australia, but they are certainly NOT independent from Corporate & other interests.

    BHP Billiton provided $4 million. Grattan also benefits from SIGNIFICANT support from companies and philanthropic organisations (the latter could be any other support 'institute' which has vested interests).

    MOST IMPORTANT to the corporations making donations - the Grattan Institute has Charitable status with Deductible Gift Recipient (DGR), which means that donations over $2.00 are tax deductible (of course).

    Additionally, Grattan Institute is NOT part of the University of Melbourne but is simply HOUSED there.

    It is a RIGHT WING THINK TANK that supports the corporations and their aims to put OUR money and OUR country in their own pockets and take that away from each and every Australian citizen, especially those that are what they term 'needy'.



    What a lot of cods whollop Jaguar!

    Labor put Australia's economy at the very TOP of the WORLD and became recognised as one of the MOST EGALITARIAN country in the WORLD.

    You know this BUT you prefer to keep spinning yarns…. your Liberal party are stuffing up this country and you simply cannot blame that on Labor because THEY put Australia ahead of the whole world in prosperity and wellbeing….. with the lowest debt levels!


    NOW on to the disgusting propositions put up by this right wing think tank. Although, I must admit, the only thing that surprises me is that they think they are so well sheltered by MURDOCH's puppet government (Abbott & Co) that they are so BLATANT about:

    * increasing (astronomically) taxes of the poor and those without incomes by raising GST on FOOD, HEALTH, EDUCATION. The average pensioner lost about $2000 per annum when they introduced GST but if it is raised on FOOD, HEALTH & EDUCATION, my god, every Australian will be HIT HARD. Those that are wealthy, won't even feel it BUT YOU WILL!
    * decreasing ALL benefits to the old and the 'needy', you thought it bad when Howard slashed and maimed BUT he at least had SOME regard for you, corporate interests DO NOT.

    Gee! How brilliant this institute is! That will put the country on its feet…. oh wait, Australia WAS the BEST economy in the WORLD under labor…. now we have huge $500 BILLION debts that Murdoch wants raised overnight and our economy is sliding down rather that fast (apparently) that we are proposing the desecration of the poorest and most vulnerable people in Australia.

    Yes, I can see that this Grattan Institute is proposing well defined policies that are in the interest of all Australians and not just (foreign?) corporations. ANY FOOL could have come up with these proposals to remove money from Australians and put in in wealthy pockets. They are not intelligent proposals, they are the blatant skulduggery of wolves covering themselves in lamb's fleece.

    Can you feel their hands in your pockets people….. you should because once that money is gone…. they will have no use for you at all. Good luck!


    Oh! Isn't amazing that under the previous government (Labor) Australia did NOT need any of these measures because the wealth was spread out amongst Australians (most egalitarian in the world) and Labor had put our economy at the very top of the world and with the lowest debt levels……. ALL during the height of the GFC. Astoundingly GOOD management of Australia.

    Now we have Murdoch's puppet government declaring that we have to take money OFF Australians and NOT provide for our elderly because their is NOT enough money to go around BUT we have to give a HUGE tax break to CORPORATIONS (foreign including).

    Definitely shifting the wealth from the average & poor Australian to the pockets of the wealthy Corporations who do NOTHING for this country except fill their pockets!
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    9:36pm
    No Tia Maria

    DO NOT blame ALL politicians…. that is ALWAYS what people say when their party doesn't do the right thing.

    Didn't particularly like RUDD…. BUT he did marvellous things for Australia & Australians. He did NOT sell us out to (foreign) CORPORATIONS, as Abbott & Co are doing! He put himself on the line and 51% of Australians swallowed the constant barrage of Murdoch's totally biased media campaign to disparage & bring him down.

    Australia is now a laughing stock within & outside of Australia, every time the marionette opens his FOOLISH mouth, idiocy follows.

    I get up each day and look to see what new inane and stupid things he has done, as they are coming thick and fast!
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    10:19am
    Oh I'm sorry Mussi. Of course you're right. Just like labor, you've always spent more than you earned, and now your a rich mulimillionaire living a life of luxury.
    Now why didn't I think of that ?
    moorlands
    27th Nov 2013
    12:00pm
    If you need proof check the price of the Australian Dollar, when the ALP were in power international investors flocked to Australia and the dollar went sky high, also Swan was voted the worlds best treasurer by international experts. Since the LNP came to power the international investors have recoiled in horror and the value of the dollar is plunging, if you read the International press instead of your local rag, you will read that Hockey is certainly not in the running for any awards.
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    1:19pm
    Wow Jaguar, That photo of you, looks like a horse eating thistles.
    Anonymous
    2nd Dec 2013
    4:17pm
    surfer - thanks mate. you're not too bad lookin yerself, for a canetoad
    surfer
    3rd Dec 2013
    2:09pm
    Hi Jaguar- Thought we were both cane toads.
    Anonymous
    3rd Dec 2013
    4:25pm
    yeah - but you really look like one. must be the warts . hahahaha
    Golfer
    26th Nov 2013
    10:53am
    We're living longer so why shouldn't we wait longer for the pension.
    It's been 65 since 1908 (I think). Yet life expectancy has risen by 8+ years.
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    9:42pm
    Life expectancy maybe but 'quality of life' needs to accompany that. At 65, you JUST have enough health to enjoy what is left of your time but at 70, you have just halved that time.

    Then you need to look at the higher taxes and cost of living that the aged and disadvantaged in Australia will have to endure. We are the LUCKY country remember with the best economy in the WORLD (fact)…. well we did whilst under Rudd. Why should be be taking away the quality of life of the aged and the disadvantaged BUT giving tax breaks to CORPORATIONS (foreign included).

    Besides…..1908? Wasn't that when they had child labour, poor tax and work conditions & pay that were at the mercy of the employer?
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    9:16pm
    Indeed - but in 1908 the life expectancy for a man was (wait for it) - try this graph:-

    http://www.aihw.gov.au/australias-health/2012/healthy-nation/

    "Life expectancy at birth since 1900". Most men didn't make it to retirement age.. sorry 'bout that - but really - increased longevity is hardly an issue. What IS the issue is whether or not we should be entitled to enjoy our retirement after a lifetime of work - and that includes housewifing - and right at the time when most peopl want to put their feet up for a change, they are hit with this sort of nonsense from the overpaid, telling us we need to tighten our belts.

    http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1156/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=01_Brief_His...

    Ceremonially slings down another smelly dead fish.... check the rise in % of GDP that makes up the 'tax take'...

    "Tax revenues tended to fall in the middle of the twentieth century and by 1963-64 the tax take was around 18 per cent of GDP. It then increased significantly between 1973 and 1975, largely as a result of increased funding for social programmes".

    OK - let's get this sorted:-

    The tax was increased to fund social programmes (sic) - ergo - social programmes are funded under the current level of taxation - ergo, social programmes are sacrosanct unless tax rates fall in equal quantity - NOT rise via GST - which I will remind you, labor was going to abolish - and suddenly including family home in calculations for pension eligibility

    Discussion ends...... night falls on the gainsayers.... you've been paying tax for your retirement for decades now... enjoy it in full!
    Pass the Ductape
    26th Nov 2013
    12:15pm
    Putting the boot in to those who are least able to resist is always what governments have done when it comes to cutting costs, while at the same time they themselves boost their own coffers by as much as they can get away with. It’s the modern version of - me the master, you the slave syndrome - which existed so long ago!

    There is no doubt that maintaining the cost of providing a pension for most of us is considerable - but one would think that if the cost of providing a pension to those who required one has been affordable in the past, then why, with the current productiveness of our nation and the subsequence increase in the taxes paid by our present growing population, isn’t it possible to continue providing a pension without all the hype about it sending us broke?

    On the face of it, raising the age of retirement to 70 might seem to make sense but again, and despite a myriad of other unpleasant situations that will likely manifest themselves at around this age, we need to consider the long term effect this is going to have on those attempting to enter the workforce at the bottom.
    The longer people remain in the workforce, the less opportunity there is for others to enter into it - notwithstanding the additional consequence of all manner of commerce wishing to automate as much as possible in their attempts to cut down on their reliance of the so-called - high cost of labour.

    What happened to the great expectations we were promised long ago about machines doing all the work so that we humans could enjoy a leisurely lifestyle?

    Obviously still as much a con as it ever was - and always will be!

    Unless we increase the magnitude of our countries productiveness, (and nobody save Clive Palmer seems to understand this) we’ve had it - and the poorest of us are going to suffer the most.
    LENYJAC
    26th Nov 2013
    2:22pm
    I THINK THAT THESE MORONS THAT CALL THEMSELVES PO(LIES) WILL WRESTLE US OLDIES INTO THE GROUND JUST SO THEY CAN GIVE THEMSELVES ANOTHER PAYRISE
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    10:13pm
    VERY well said Ductape.

    I agree, productivity is essential….

    It is also one reason why Australia NEEDS Labor's NBN - so that we can stay ahead of the world and find niche international markets and provide the best (Murdoch's NBN is useless and we would be better off as we currently are, saving $29 billion PLUS - although I can see this dissipating into Murdoch & his cronies pockets). I realise I harp about Labor NBN but it is because I can see the value of it to the whole of Australia but specifically to ensuring the future of Australia's PRODUCTIVITY levels and giving us an edge internationally. Australia has always been an innovative country, contributing many commercial, health and other inventions to the world. Labor's NBN is essential to our Australia's future.

    China is a prime example of productivity and China has been drastically raising the education level its people and wants to raise the general education level of the whole of their population. This is in stark contrast to what the USA has done - de-educated its general populace and unfortunately, this mentality seems now to be what Murdoch wants for Australia. Hence, the pre-election lies & reversal of the Gonski agreements.
    Greibel
    26th Nov 2013
    12:16pm
    If you're over 60 and find yourself unemployed, but have to wait another 10 years to access your super, does that mean you can go on to the NewStart allowance for job seekers? I fail to see how that would then save the government any money.
    HOLA
    26th Nov 2013
    12:50pm
    When my father retired he had the option to retire at 65 or 60. He decided to retire at 60 as he said some of his workmates retired at 65 and didn't live to old age. Dad was a worker and so decided to return to the workforce as he was bored at home. He got a job selling Lottery tickets and his local RSL Club and loved it. He was always talking to people and was kept busy. He did that until he was 76 when he was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease . He retired soon after and lived life to the fullest as best as he could with such a terrible complaint.He was 87 when he died.
    AussieTuca
    26th Nov 2013
    1:24pm
    I've been there! Tks heavens it was only 4 years, trying everyday to find a job but the grey hair wouldn't help in spite of an excellent CV and experience. I think if I had to wait another 6 years to get my pension I would commit harakiri...
    Nan Norma
    26th Nov 2013
    6:10pm
    Greibel. I think the goverment knows full well anyone over 60yrs will struggle to find employment. But if they only have to pay newstart instead of the pension what a lot of money they will save. So if your on the pension now and struggling to manage think what it will be like managing on newstart. I know many under 65 are and having a really hard time. It is all about saving money, not about working.
    Aurora60
    26th Nov 2013
    10:06pm
    I agree with Aussie Tuca. I was working as a temp, the only work I could get. When the job finished there was nothing else available. Three months later I started getting pains in my back and couldn't walk. I was put on Newstart which isn't enough to fill the tank to get to the doc's or any extravagant spending like a meal out now and again. To expect pensioners to work til 70 is ridiculous whether they are fit or not.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    9:53pm
    I intend to get some work again soon - I'm 64 and been on disability since 1997. I need to work to have anything at all put away since I had to draw my super to pay bills when I went down - following which I was 'unemployable'.

    Anyone who thinks it's a luxury tour getting older or living on a pension needs to give it a go. Another one of these Lib-ernator flunkies said the minimum wage here was too high at $630 a week - he forgot to add that cost of living here is high too and you can't live on $630 a week in any meaningful sense - and I didn't hear him offering to live on minimum wage for a year.....

    Note:- On another forum I have vowed that if this nonsense goes ahead I will be marching on Canberra on my bung knees - alone if necessary and carrying the Australian Flag. Feel free to join my Coo-eee March!
    catsahoy
    27th Nov 2013
    10:47pm
    NANA NORMA, please tell me how ANYONE can save. we are both 74, live a very quiet life and cant save, our pension is gone before we get it, IM NOT ASKING FOR MORE, just saying we cant save, and young ones,;like my son; married with 2 young children, living in private rental, just get by, they are trying to put a bit aside for house deposit, but its hard on a week when the bills come in, .he is lucky that he is in a job thats as permanent as any job can be, but saving is very hard on anyone, even owning your own home, there are still expenses,
    Foxy
    29th Nov 2013
    11:51am
    Hiya Cats - agree with you totally! No one can save if their only means of income is the Age Pension and try being on the Age Pension in private rental!!!! Might as well be dead!
    Nutriwise
    30th Nov 2013
    10:54am
    Anyone who thinks that the minimum wage is too high should try living on the $230 a week you get on Austudy. I was on Newstart and could only mange to live by not buying the medication I needed. Then when I returned to study I lost a further $25 a week.
    dougie
    26th Nov 2013
    12:40pm
    The Grattan Institute is a Labor backed think tank (bit of a nisnomer for todays Labor)but of course they are going to put many things forward which will startle many people who will think that they are the thoughts of the current government.
    Let the Government get on with their work and examination of the Labor mess. Todays review by Mr Pyne indicates just how badly things were stuffed up in Education which they now have to fix. Mr Shorten remains strangely quiet. Was not he the Education Minister as a reward for his quisling actions whilst in Government?
    Tom Tank
    26th Nov 2013
    1:11pm
    Where did you get the notion that the Grattan Institute is a Labor backed think tank. I suggest you investigate a little before making erroneous statements.
    As an example do you seriously thing that David Kemp would have such an involvement with any organisation that was backed by the Labor Party?
    Wstaton
    26th Nov 2013
    2:43pm
    True with the Grattan's think tanks ideas whacking the disadvantaged and pensioners as usual they cannot be more than a LNP inspired think tank.

    As for Gonski, It seems strange that all the premiers (including liberal) want it left as it is. After all we have only that weasels word that it is in a mess.
    MITZY
    26th Nov 2013
    4:29pm
    Pyne doesn't understand Gonski reforms. He's squirming and his rhetoric is a blame game. While in Opposition as Shadow Education Minister he hardly ever posed a question or two to the Government on its education reforms in question time in the House. There are so many educators, state governments etc. in favour of it, and even the catholic schools and Victorian state government who held off signing now want to be included.
    As Grateful said yesterday, there are a number of ministers to which the "Peter Principle" could be applied. Looks like we have another candidate!
    moorlands
    29th Nov 2013
    12:20pm
    The tragedy dougie is that you believe them, when the day arrives that they come on the TV with something constructive, instead of brain washing rhetoric for non thinkers blaming everything on Labor, then I will listen to them.
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    12:37am
    HI YA FOXY, i really dont know how anyone manages to pay private rental if there only income is the aged pension, we are lucky in that we are in ministry of housing, but as i have said before, we pay TWO RENTS, i pay rent and so does my husband, centerlink takes it out of our pension before we get it, so when you combine the two rents its not so different to private rental, my argument has always been, if we rented privatly its one rent, no matter how many in the house, with ministry its a rent EACH, but we get by, only just and we cant save a cracker. as iv said before, i spent most of my working life in cooking jobs, and you learn to make a little go a long way, and how to make ecconomical meals which are nourishing but not expensive, i used to say when i retired i was going to write a cook book, 100 WAYS WITH MINCE STEAK, ha ha, its surprising what you can do,, but good luck FOXY, i know its hard,
    Penqueen1949
    2nd Dec 2013
    5:57pm
    catsahoy, you say that you and your husband pay two rents so that's not so different to private rental. I take it your Ministry of Housing is government housing. As far as I know government housing takes no more than one quarter of income for each recipient of that income. I pay private rental and my rent is 39% of my income at present; this includes rent assistance. My unit is going to be refurbished soon and then I expect my rent to be 44% of my income. If I rented through a real estate the rent would be higher. So anyone in government accommodation is still better off.....
    student
    4th Dec 2013
    2:26pm
    I'll bet London to a brick that private schools get a lot more funding under Pyne, than public schools.

    Between the Grattan Institute, Chris Pyne and the mad abbott, those at the bottom of the heap (the poor, the disabled and the forgotten) will again see what little they have being taken away. It is only my dignity that keeps me sane.The 'gap' is getting bigger. Yes, once we were envied because we were compassionate and striving for equality, but then greed came back from holidays.
    wally
    26th Nov 2013
    12:43pm
    All praise to the Greens and the Labor Party for opposing the vile attempts by the "Mad Monk" and his minions to raise the national debt limit to $500,000,000,000! Under Bill Shorten's "Pensiners' Pal" Party, (AKA the Santa Claus Party), we will see the Abbott government forced into severe cuts to government spending. How this will work out remains to be seen.
    Shorten's role as Judas Brutus is reinforced by his hypocrisy with his supporting the out of control borrowing of the Labor Government to 2013 is there for all to see. So Labor and the Greens suddenly, overnight, become champions of responsible economic government policy? They had six years (2007-2013) to arrive at this conclusion, and only the now they can, if they ever would, explain their failure to arrive at this before now.
    So where will the axe fall? Will the NBN get the chop? Will foreign aid get pruned? Will Tony Abbott sell off the ABC? (I wonder if Rupert might be interested?) Will the GST rise and pensions fall? Or will other, unforeseen cuts be made in the Climate change bureaucracy?
    Wait and see, Kids, and hang on tight, it is going to be a bumpy ride thanks to the Labor Legacy courtesy of Mr. Rudd and Ms Gillard.
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    10:25pm
    wally

    WHAT A LOT OF CODS WOLLOP! You ARE TOTALLY aware that the Labor Party (Rudd really) PUT Australia's economy at the very TOP of the WORLD…. better than China, Russia, & the EU, totally smashing the USA & UK and with the LOWEST DEBT of all these countries!!! This is FACT which you are well aware of, wally.

    So once, we remove all your BULLDUST, tell me wally….. why is Murdoch's marionette SCREWING the little people. Taking money from the poor and giving tax breaks to CORPORATIONS (foreign included).
    surfer
    28th Nov 2013
    8:26am
    NOW NOW Mussitate/Moorlands, Don't you be so nasty to wally. You are the one always going on about abuse. You are a very naughty boy, and have been brain washed by your mate krudd.
    moorlands
    28th Nov 2013
    10:49am
    Just heard the news that Hockey wants to save Qantas with taxpayers money. Damned socialist.
    Paddles
    28th Nov 2013
    10:13pm
    Honestly!..........You people amaze me with your lack of grasp of even the most simple situations.
    This is no more evident than now when you take what is little more than a rumour or, at worst, a running up the flagpole exercise to see who salutes, and then proceed to anguish over it as if it were a done deal.
    Fact is, there has been no definite move to increase the pensionable age apart from Labor's stated intention to increase it to 67 a few down the track from now.
    So settle down folks..........talk to your therapist or have a stiff drink and then go outside and smell the flowers.
    MITZY
    29th Nov 2013
    9:09am
    Paddles: These statements such as contained in the Grattan analysis are put out to test the waters. If nobody protests governments get away with blue murder. YLC should send all these comments to the government as a protest move.
    The less you say, the more you get trampled on.
    Lula
    26th Nov 2013
    12:47pm
    I don't believe these suggestions have merit,
    catsahoy
    3rd Dec 2013
    10:44pm
    PENQUEEN1949, yes you are right, we pay 25%of our pension, so its not ONE rent, its TWO, WHICH IS ALMOST the equivilent of a private rent, if we were in private rental, it wouldnt matter how many of us lived in the house, it would be ONE RENT, i am not complaining, we are well off compared to a lot of others, just saying how it is, the main advantage of ministry housing, is any repairs [that are not your fault] are fixed free of charge, but this should be the same in private rental, it is up to the landlord to maintain the property,
    catsahoy
    3rd Dec 2013
    11:16pm
    may i add PENQUEEN,1949, you say you pay 39% of your pension to your rent, but my point is, IF THERE WERE TWP OF YOU, IT WOULD BE ONLY ONE LOT OF 39% we pay TWO lots of 25%.
    Maxzee
    26th Nov 2013
    12:49pm
    There are many who because of physical problems due to aging are not going to be able to do manual work until they are 70, these problems come with age, are they going to pay a disability pension for people who are unemployable due to their impediments! because i think they are opening a can of worms here, OK for people sitting in an office to come up with all these wonderful suggestions! I don't think.
    Grateful
    26th Nov 2013
    1:46pm
    Labor already has in place that the retirement age be extended to 67, that is already law.
    Life expectancy since the original retirement age was set at 65, when it was just 66, has risen by 20 years.
    All the evidence that has been used to arrive at 70 supports the fact that those already in jobs have no problem with staying in that job.

    Of course, there will, as there always has been, a contingency system to protect those that, for reasons of incapacity, are no longer able to keep working, or, are unable to get a job. I wouldn't think that there would be too many "dole bludgers" at 65+.
    So, it really is a very simple economic decision that should not be marred by politics or emotion. It MUST happen, but, you can bet that it won't happen during this parliament, unless they just extended the present law from 67 to 70 and stretched out its commencement date until 2025. That is their only choice.

    The eligibility to access superannuation from 55 is a totally different matter altogether. That should be increased to 65 ASAP and then to 70 with the age pension. There is absolutely no excuse to allow able bodied people who have probably had many years training to "retire" at 55. NONE.
    They will never in our lifetime include the family home as an asset for pension purposes, maybe, as a taxation measure to include it for Capital Gains Tax when it is sold, but, not if the applicant is living in it. That simply would be political suicide.

    If they want to look at the assets test for pension eligibility, they only have to look at the current rates that are way over the top for what the age pension was intended. Reduce that asset test by half and with a small part of the savings, increase the base rate to give genuine pensioners a little bit of extra comfort in their old age.
    Home owner couples with over $1 million in ADDITIONAL assets receiving even a part pension under the current test is totally un-supportable.
    And people with TAXABLE income of $50,000, couples $80,000, should certainly not get a Health benefit Card with subsidised pharmacy and medical treatment.

    Sadly, the new government has kept the compulsory superannuation contribution at 9%. Boosting that rate to 12.5% as the former government had in place, would have given many more retirees MUCH more cash when they retired than the present generation of retirees (where the vast majority who have been on average salaries, have not been able to accumulate large sums) and would, by definition, reduce the demand for a government pension.
    As Joe Hockey has said many times, the age of entitlement is well and truly over. I would have preferred to have the Productivity Commission given an extra 6 months and a broader terms of reference so they could do a much more comprehensive review of tax and pensions that is so very badly needed.
    Taxes and pensions have been seriously distorted by governments, particularly from 2000, by being used as vote catchers and now we are all paying for that foolish largesse. It didn't work either!!!
    Wstaton
    26th Nov 2013
    3:00pm
    Hockey said the "age of entitlement" is over. A politician who voted for their last pay rise (an entitlement?) and get an every increasing entitled pension.

    You betcha Hockey.
    Wendy HK
    26th Nov 2013
    7:50pm
    The Age of Entitlement for pollies' luks and perks should be over - that would save a"motza"
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    10:37pm
    Grateful
    It is about 'Quality of Life' Grateful and if you change it to 70 AND tax the poor and those disadvantage through GST being taken up on FOOD, EDUCATION & HEALTH, what do you have…… hardship!

    With this ultra right wing think tank spewings…. we will simply have increased poverty and it will follow that slum areas will be introduced into Australia. But hey, the wealthy corporations (mostly foreign) need to cut government spending… so that they can fill their own pockets.

    Just take a very good look at the USA (a once mighty nation) and you can see the results of these very same think tank policies….
    - poverty
    - ever widening slums
    - over 50 million unemployed
    - under educated population
    - public education, a joke
    - public health, to die for
    - drugs out of control
    - crime an every day occurrence
    - standard of living, less than HALF of what AUSTRALIA has

    Yes, these backward Corporatocrasy type policies, really work to improve a country…NOT!!!!
    Paddles
    28th Nov 2013
    10:25pm
    Grateful

    I agree with most of your well reasoned contribution and I wish you would make the effort more often.
    The only point that I would take any issue with is the raising of the what was introduced as the Superannuation Guarantee Levy to 12.5%. Since its introduction in the late 80"s, the suffix "levy" seems to have been abandoned. Without debating the rights or wrongs of the system, it should not be lost sight of that this is another significant impost on employers and most certainly comes into calculation when decisions are taken about staffing levels. In many instances it could be said to be a disincentive to putting on additional workers.
    Bes
    26th Nov 2013
    1:24pm
    Get rid of state governments and bring local governments down to a max of 4 per capital city. We are still colonials living under a left over system put in place by England.
    The Westminster System was designed as one government for one country and will still work as a Republic. It would save billions, standardise the laws of the country, education, the police forces (no need for extradition of criminals) and live as Australians in a once more 'lucky country'. Able to look after it's young and it's OLD!
    Penqueen1949
    2nd Dec 2013
    6:13pm
    Bes, I would love to see the Queensland Herr Newman government abolished. I can hardly wait for the next state government election here in Queensland..... I do agree with you though, state governments are not needed. This country is over governed....
    Crazy Horse
    6th Dec 2013
    9:41pm
    Get rid of the Federal government that does very little at all. There is not much that could not be done such as defence that could not be done by agreement between the state.
    BlackCatWalking
    26th Nov 2013
    1:25pm
    This is a cost saving exercise and plenty of money can be saved elsewhere rather than focusing on seniors and engaging in social engineering. In other words forcing pensioners who own their own home to downsize and free up the housing market. "The Authors say, owner-occupied housing in the calculation of a retiree’s eligibility for the age pension would contribute about A$7 billion a year to the budget, and encourage people to downsize to housing which may be better suited to their needs, enabling more efficient use of existing housing stock"

    Why not these:
    fossil fuel subsidies: $12 billion (ACF) to $13.4 billion
    . - superannuation tax concessions $30 billion in FY12
    . - negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts 6.8 billion
    . - imputed rent exemptions ~$9.6 billion in FY12
    . - negative gearing for investors ($6.4 billion).
    . - First Home Vendors Grants over $1 billion
    . - private education $9 billion ($36 billion over 09-13)
    . - Private Health Insurance Rebate $5 billion ($2 billion at commencement in 1999)
    Grateful
    26th Nov 2013
    2:54pm
    Well put. Goes with what many are saying that the Productivity Commission should be given more time and a broader terms of reference to include all of those things that you have mentioned and more.
    Patriot
    26th Nov 2013
    3:23pm
    Reduce the "Fat Cats" lurks & perks and we might be getting somewhere.
    This rather than getting more money out of those who have slaved "all their lives" to make this country what it was before the Cartels, Industrialists and Politicians wrecked it unconditionally without any consideration for those who brought this country to what it was!
    Aussiefrog
    26th Nov 2013
    1:27pm
    Working to 70 might be ok for some but I speak for myself and probably other people, what about people that always had heavy, burdensome jobs? In my case, my body canot take it anymore: sciatica nerve, back pains, arthritis and angina and I'm only 60! Idoubt it I'll make it to 70, I'll probably will die working, what a prospect! As for some people that have been on welfare most of their lives, their transition to retirement will be a breeze.
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    10:49pm
    Aussiefrog

    I am really sorry to hear what hard work has done to your body.

    Hearing your comments made me feel very sad actually and then it sparked anger.

    They ask people like yourself to work and most Australians ARE hard workers and did what they shouldn't have been doing to their bodies but did so because of this hard work ethics. They then get old and these despicable PRIVILEGED clowns, don't want to acknowledge their contribution to this country nor allow them some simple quality time towards the end of their lives, nor do they want to support those needing greater assistance.

    Yeah… it makes me very angry, Aussiefrog.
    btony
    26th Nov 2013
    1:35pm
    I can see a $34 million saving straight away.... get rid of the Grattan institute. one can only sing the 'blame labor 'song for so long. Sooner or later, as in real life, people have to accept responsibility for their actions
    Aussiefrog
    26th Nov 2013
    1:37pm
    Damn right!
    Wendy HK
    26th Nov 2013
    7:51pm
    I second that motion!
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    10:39pm
    btony
    Well thank you! That brought a lovely grin to my somewhat aged face.
    surfer
    27th Nov 2013
    7:05am
    A better idea still would be get rid of the ABC. What a biased pack of commos. Get rid of the Grattan as well. Cut all pay and perks to pollies and no more robbery from the ex PM's. Cut them out completely. Increase by a big margin the tax on grog and smokes to try to save Australia from the same fate USA has experienced. Our younger generation is out of control. Change our idiotic interest in sport. Make them all have a real job and be productive. Sport should be a past time to be enjoyed by all as in the past. Tax gambling more heavily to help the pensioners. Bring back the cane for naughty boys and girls. It did'nt do me any harm, and I got my fair share. Wake up Australia, we are just a pack of half sozzeled dickheads embarrassing ourselves to the rest of the world.
    moorlands
    29th Nov 2013
    10:58pm
    Come on, surfer we do'nt want to hear your fetish for the cane.
    Nikolai
    26th Nov 2013
    1:38pm
    What is all the fuss about, those it will effect are the younger generation and when you stop and think very few of them start work before they are 25 to 30 nowadays whereas current pensioners started work t 14 and 15. I am sick of reading the nonsense written by the editors and labour supporters on this page, give the new government a fair go. The more I see of Shorten and his deputy on tv the more I realise that their part ghasnt changed at all.
    Not Amused
    26th Nov 2013
    1:53pm
    People are living longer, propped up with painkillers and artificial body parts but
    modern medical treatments don't make older people more mentally agile or more able-bodied. Some people (bricklayers, nurses etc.) are over the work hill by age 55 (or younger if they started early). This is total madness. THEY CAN KEEP THEIR STINKING HANDS OFF OUR HARD-WON FAMILY HOMES TOO OR WE WILL STOP SACRIFICING TO PAY THEM OFF, RENT, SPEND WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE MORTGAGE REPAYMENTS, AND RELY ON GOVERNMENT-SUBSIDISED HOUSING ASSISTANCE WHEN WE RETIRE.
    Aurora60
    26th Nov 2013
    10:18pm
    Quite agree!
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    11:08pm
    Get OFF party politics Nikolai and recognise that this is Murdoch's marionettes who are simply there to rip and burn Australia, in order to fill Murdock & his cronies pockets. They don't care where the money comes from!

    By the time you figure that out, there won't be much left of Australia. It will have been sold out completely with the effects of such following on behind.

    I will be fine but a majority of Australians will NOT be and you couldn't give a damn about them or the youth of Australia… good one Nikolai, your philosophies fall in line with Murdoch's own.
    MITZY
    27th Nov 2013
    10:55am
    How come MURDOCK hasn't retired? He's over 80, isn't he? Shouldn't he be on a disability pension by now?
    Ritza
    26th Nov 2013
    1:44pm
    Oh yes hit the weak and unrepresented!
    No one wants a 68 year old teacher,nurse,etc.

    I have a few ideas to save money....

    Cut back on politicians perks. No golden travel card except for the PM and that cuts out after 5 years along with office and secretary.

    If the pollie wants his wife to go then he can pay for her. I object to paying for Bob Carr's wife. She can afford it herself.

    "Study Trips" cut back . One every 4 year parliament and they fly cattle class.A detailed report with conclusions to be published.
    Flight points accumulated go into central "bank" to pay for other trips.


    Cut back Postal allowance.. we do not want to hear from them anyway.

    Politicians cannot access their super til 70 ...

    Cut down on white collar crime .... when these businessmen get caught give them a long prison sentence. Adler got 2 years ... he should have got 10. HIH chairman got 2 years he should have been put away for 20 years and all his and his wife's possessions should have been confiscated and sold to pay debtors.

    Put prisoners out to work on community projects.... renew sewer pipes, plant trees, clean highways etc

    Have the mining companies pay tax.. all the bulldust about what they contribute.. that is infrastructure which is needed to get the stuff out of the ground... and they claim depreciation on that too!! Gina did not create what she is digging out. ....pay your way lady.

    I have spent over half of my life paying off my house. As a single person i did not qualify for any thing. I could not split my income as couples do. I paid super and for my own pension. I am LUCKY to be in Australia and living at this time .

    We baby boomers/ pensioners/ retirees are an easy scapegoat but we volunteer and give our free time to so many activities.

    I don't blame Labor ,they got us through the GFC and I don't blame the Liberals as they are trying to get us back on a sound financial footing.

    Gee i am full of the whinges and thank you for listening.
    Aussiefrog
    26th Nov 2013
    1:51pm
    Absolutly agree Ritza, it's not a case of Labor or Liberal, it's the case of picking on the vulnerable while those fat cats live the life!
    The ones that say we are whingeing are probably on fat pension!
    If this goes ahead seniors should start organizing a fight back campaign, we have a voice and we should use it.
    Patriot
    26th Nov 2013
    3:14pm
    Seniors should start a "Fight Back" campaign now so that the B's (thieves) cannot catch us unaware.
    If they had wisely invested the taxes we have paid all our lives (rather than squander them weather Labour of Conservatives) we would not be scraping the "bottom of the Barrel" as we are now!
    Thieves & Criminals is the only observation (Which rings true) I can make!
    Wendy HK
    26th Nov 2013
    8:02pm
    Ritza, I'll vote for you! You make a lot of sense - why can't the pollies pull their belt in a little - they wouldn't miss a few thousand where the poor old pensioner really misses even $2
    Aussiefrog and Patriot - I agree -Grey Power would be a powerful force - we need to band together!
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    11:20pm
    Patriot

    That's the thing… we are NOT scraping the bottom of the barrel. Australia, three months ago had the best economy in the world, was one of the most egalitarian nations in the world, and had the lowest debt of any developed nation. These were NOT Labor's claims, they were FACTS established INTERNATIONALLY!


    Now, all of a sudden, we are told that:
    - we need to take our debt up to $500,000,000,000.00 (hope I have enough noughts) BUT are NOT told WHY?!?
    - we need to give tax breaks to the wealthy (foreign included) CORPORATIONS
    - we need to tax the poor, disadvantaged and those with no income by taking up GST on FOOD, HEALTH, & EDUCATION…. the staples of a normal society
    - we need to sell off national assets and pay states to do the same (yes, this one didn't quite make it into the Corporate Media)
    - Australia doesn't have enough money to pay for a reasonable Standard of Living, even though 3 months ago we were COMFORTABLY able to do so

    How much are these Corporations going to EXTRACT from ordinary Australians, to completely reverse our INTERNATIONAL status and Standard of Living in 3 months!
    Nutriwise
    26th Nov 2013
    1:53pm
    I would love to work till I was 70 if I could get a job. Anyone else find it is virtually impossible to get work once you turn 50. I was made redundant in 2012. I still have no work after 500 job applications. It appears that employers don't want experience. From comments at interviews it seems all that is important these days is how short you wear your skirts and if you are available to come to the pub after work. Add that to the experience from an interview last week. One applicant was still jet lagged. He had just arrived on a gap year from Ireland. Guess who got the job?
    KSS
    26th Nov 2013
    4:20pm
    You have a good point here Nutriwise. Personally I don't think another raise in the retirement age is that bad. It is going to 67 soon anyway. What is of far more concern, is there needs to be some serious work done on employers to continue to employ older workers. I have been in your position three times in the last twenty years through redundancy. Each time it took longer to get another job. The last time it was 14 months and over 600 job applications before I finally found something. This is truly shocking. If this is happening now, where are the jobs coming from for the extra years we are expected to work?
    Nutriwise
    26th Nov 2013
    5:05pm
    It seems to me that instead of raising the age for the pension more attention needs to be paid to employing mature age workers before the 'tourists' even if they have a work visa the trend seems to be employ them before Australians. That was the attitude of management at my last employment. I have had to return to full time study to improve my employment prospects, but it seems you can't even get part time employment even with the companies who advertise they are pro mature age workers.
    KSS
    26th Nov 2013
    5:52pm
    Yes I went the study route too. Still didn't help get the job but at least it showed I didn't just sit about for the 14 months! Good Luck
    Nutriwise
    26th Nov 2013
    6:32pm
    Thanks, it just seems stupid that our age instead of reaping the benefits of experience and passing on your knowledge, you end up on the scrap heap having to go back to uni with students who are young enough to be children and grandchildren
    Wendy HK
    26th Nov 2013
    8:11pm
    We sold our business last year (very physically demanding and suited to a 20-30 year old) my husband retired on an age pension.
    I was very confident that I would get a job - I have so much experience in all facets of business, local knowledge, local networking, I won't get pregnant, I know the meaning of the words customer service etc., etc - but at 64 - oh no - you must be too close to the grave to put on! I am on Newstart - and can't wait to start living the high life on an "age pension" I don't know how anyone lives on either payment??? and $2 to us is important!
    Nutriwise
    27th Nov 2013
    11:05am
    I know what you mean with the economics. My husband was made redundant after the Brisbane floods in 2011. He went back to university last year too. We were living on my wage and my savings. Then I was made redundant and went from a weekly income of $750 to $230. My employer said they could only afford $2000 payment, but as I had no children they couldn't see what I would need money for, unlike the gap year employees they had. So they are having a wonderful time, whist my husband watch every cent and can barely afford to pay the rent. Don't know what we,d do without food bank. At least we can afford to eat.
    Jurassicgeek
    26th Nov 2013
    2:01pm
    they are going the wrong way ..we should be REDUCING the retirement age!! cant imagine who would want to work a minute longer than they had to....certainly not..."most people"
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    11:29pm
    Jurassicgeek

    You are so bloody right. As someone earlier pointed out, first we were told that 'machines' would ensure that we would work less and then the same when 'computers' came on the scene.

    The new CON is to simply allow Corporations to take Australia's national & state assets, pay those same corporations to run those assets and then tell the rest of Australia that there is no longer enough money to pay welfare and services to the people who actually PAY the taxes. Telling the people that what they have is a privilege and that they don't deserve ANY of their own tax money back when they get old.
    Jurassicgeek
    27th Nov 2013
    2:15pm
    By the time I did my 46 years in the construction industry, mostly working on a flat rate with no annual leave, no sick pay, no overtime ...I figured I'd done my time in hell .. paid my dues and deserved a little back from those bloodsuckers who bled me all my working life...The Pension! A princely sum by all accounts!!!...(NOT)
    Hasbeen
    26th Nov 2013
    3:11pm
    Unemployment is already tipped to go past 6% next year. Where do they think all the extra jobs are going to come from?

    A better idea is to;

    1; Dump the NBN excess & go to fiber to the node.
    2; Dump Gonski, & start increasing class sizes. We got a better education in classes of 35/40 kids, & a teacher with a cane to keep discipline.
    3; Forget this crazy NDIS, it was always just a land mine laid by Gillard to get back at everyone for not wanting her. It is beyond our capacity to fund.
    4; Sack 15% of state , 20% of Commonwealth, & 30% of council bureaucrats, & institute a moratorium of 5 years on any hiring of them.
    5; Sell all public housing, or charge commercial rents.
    6; Stop handouts of foreign aid.
    7; Stop all refugee intakes, & handouts, until we can afford to look after our own.

    Most of all, stop welfare payments for all but age or genuine {no legs] disability. Give the unemployed, single parents & such a broom, & $10 an hour to sweep the streets. They will be too busy to take drugs, or break into someone's home, while they are pushing a broom past it.
    Patriot
    26th Nov 2013
    3:20pm
    Now, there are some ideas worth consideration!
    Nutriwise
    26th Nov 2013
    3:46pm
    I agree, especially about the refuge intake
    Grateful
    26th Nov 2013
    4:12pm
    ?????? Serious?????
    Nan Norma
    26th Nov 2013
    6:33pm
    must defend that statement. I have a friend in her 50's who has recently become a single monther after being her husband's carer. She now has to work three full days a week in aged cared. I lot of lifting etc and she is not a strong person.. As she says at the end of the day she is absolutly exhoused.This women does this on newstart. I say if this job is needed so much why isn't she being paid decent money. The government is turning people into slaves.
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    11:37pm
    Hasbeen
    This is tongue in cheek…. YES…. because the list you have detailed (1 to 7) is exactly what Murdoch's lot are doing.

    So nicely dry Hasbeen.

    Nan Norma…. well said, that is exactly how they want the work force, in a state of slavery. Working three jobs to make ONE decent wage - already happening in the USA. It is the only area in which they want competition…. so THEY can dictate the wage and conditions.
    lindy
    26th Nov 2013
    3:21pm
    These people live on another plane. Imagine having to wait till 70 to access your super. Why would you bother to build up super in that case.
    Apart from not being able physically to work at that age it really beggers belief.
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    11:38pm
    Yes, they do live on another plane. It is called the 'gravy train' and because they are on it, they don't give a damn about anyone or anything else.
    MITZY
    27th Nov 2013
    1:06pm
    Did you both mean ... live on another "plain" as in the rain in spain falls mainly on the plain. Or did you both mean "planet". haha!

    However, if you are a younger worker and work resourcefully all your life in private enterprise or a government job, or even work for yourself from the time Paul Keating brought in superannuation at 3%, which has gradually increased to 12% and, would have even further increased under Labor by the time you reach the current 67 years retirement age, you should be very well provided for in your retirement. You should then be able to live comfortably off your superannuation in the form of a pension. The amount of that pension would depend entirely on your own decision of how much you require per month and you could draw down that amount. What you acquired in superannuation over a life-time should at least keep you living very comfortably for many years. If this superannuation should run out say in 20 years after retirement at 70 years, you would then be about 90. At 90 you could apply for the age pension, surely they wouldn't begrude you some crumbs to last you until you reached 100 years and got your congratulatory telegram from "His" Majesty.

    That's an ideal situation, and probably more than half of superannuants of the future would fall into that category. That ideal situation doesn't exist for so many of today's pensioners and part-time workers for a multitude of reasons.

    For me being born in 1941 the new female age for retirement was 65 but because I was approaching retirement age the actual retirement age for me reduced to 62.1/2 years. I would presume the retirement age of 70, would also have this same factoring applied? I would hope so.

    However, for those of us who worked in PRIVATE ENTERPRISE (I in a government job for first 8 years of work and then in PRIVATE ENTERPRISE until age 55) CONTINUOUSLY and never had the OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN SUPERANNUATION for retirement, the GRATTAN INSTITUTE (should be re-named GRABBEM INSTITUTE) hasn't given us currently retired pensioners very much thought with the age increase or the GST extensions, and health and education reforms, plus possibly including the family home in the assets test!

    I've written before about the difficulties of living off government pensions if circumstances in your life occur to prevent you from accumulating funds for retirement. The "Think Tank" GRABBEM INSTITUTE appears to have left out approaching our Pensioners' Associations/Advocates for input.

    My situation: Retired 55 pension not available until 62.1/2
    Husband MS retired 55 pension not available until 65.
    Option sell home and move to country area - better "quality" of life there, but definitely not "quantity". Some surplus funds available invested and lost becasue of September 11 crisis and a further economic downturn a few years later.
    Go on disability/carer payment/carer allowance.
    Lots of health expenses and purchase of a disability vehicle to make a quality of life better for my husband. He had 18 months with the disability vehicle and electric wheelchair and we got around our area and he enjoyed life to the full as best he could, in that time, before passing away 16 months ago. Sold disability vehicle lost $6,000 on sale had to purchase car for self (second-hand) came out square. Sold wheelchair lost on that too.
    Now I'm on a single pension. Managing o.k., eating healthy food, doing exercise by walking quite a lot with and without my new baby girl I've had for five weeks (MITZY the Wonder Dog - a Miniature Poodle/Cross?? who was 2 years old on 6th November - got her from a rescue organisation). I have a weakened back from looking after/lifting etc. my husband, but it's improving too. I won't be taking any overseas holidays, too costly, even the cheapest ones. I'm happy with my lifestyle and have some really life-long friends who visit on a regular basis and I catch a coach a couple of times a year and visit them too.
    Don't need to spend much on myself, (only have one glass of red wine when I go for a meal at a Club with friends - don't drink at home) so although I panicked after my husband died due to reverting to a single pension, I have budgeted and worked out that from January to December 2013 my single full pension is $20,898.03 and my current known expenses are $19,628.54 fully accounted for. I will of course have more to add before end of 2013, and I know I will either come out square or a little behind.
    There are people much worse off than myself.
    Please "GRABBEM INSTITUTE" go back to the drawing board and find some wealthier tax avoiders and high achievers to fund the government (i.e. yourselves for a start). Leave the fresh food out of the GST equation. If we don't eat properly, we get sick and we are a further burden to the taxpayers healthwise. GST never ever on food please. If you want to increase GST do so on luxury items (let the ones that can afford them, pay for them).
    Nightshade
    26th Nov 2013
    3:52pm
    THE NAZI GESTAPO GHOULS THAT ARE -
    THE PRODUCTIVITY COMMISSION -
    AND
    THE GRATTAN INSTITUTE -
    ARE ON THE RAMPAGE ......WOW ! ... FEEL THEIR ADRENALIN RUSH -
    THEY ARE ABOUT THE INHUMANE ABUSE OF THE ELDERLY
    AND
    THE BLATANT THEFT OF THE HARD EARNED ASSETS OF
    THE HARD WORKING TAXPAYERS OF YESTERDAY - who paid their taxes mind - UNLIKE THESE JOKERS.
    You see - contra to the lies that they will shove down our throats - it is the taxpayer that is
    THE BACKBONE OF THE AUSTRALIAN ECONOMY.
    And not the likes of those who wield the stick in Australian society.
    OBVIOUSLY IT WAS NOT ENOUGH THAT THE AUSTRALIAN WORKERS DID THEIR VERY BEST FOR THIS NATION, INCLUDING GOING TO WAR -
    NOW THE AGED AUSTRALIAN MUST LIVE IN POVERTY & DIE IN SQUALOR -
    HAIL HITLER ! FOR YOU ARE THEIR GURU
    Nightshade
    26th Nov 2013
    4:04pm
    ACCORDING TO CONNIE, WHO IS FROM CYPRUS & HAS FAMILY OVER THERE
    YOU KNOW CYPRUS, THE NATION THAT WAS FIRST INTRODUCED THE BANKING BAIL-IN
    TODAY IT IS NOT SAFE FOR ANYONE TO WALK THE STREETS AT ANY GIVEN TIME
    ESPECIALLY NOT SAFE IF YOU ARE A BANKER OR POLITICIAN -
    TODAY CYPRUS IS A DANGEROUS PLACE
    GREECE ALSO
    ITALY
    GERMANY
    WORLD WAR 3 HERE WE COME
    LET'S HOPE THAT THIS TIME THE NAZI ELEMENT - IS TOTALLY ANNIHILATED
    moorlands
    29th Nov 2013
    12:33pm
    Gracious Nightshade, we were in Cyprus in April, we did'nt realize that those smiling people were just waiting for us to turn our backs so that they could mug us.
    Fair Go
    3rd Dec 2013
    9:20pm
    Nightshade, why are you including Germany in your list of "dangerous places"? They have the best economy in Europe, one of the best social systems in the western world, we could take a leaf out of their book in this downward spiralling country of ours. Their retired people are quite well off, not begging for a measley pension like we are. Granted, they do pay taxes for their pensions, but is that not better than struggling like pensioners here do? Was there last year, they didn't look too dangerous or down trodden and in fact looked quite prosperous, in spite of the socalled downward spiral of Europe's economies. Didn't even get mugged once! In fact, it is quite a safe country for the visitor. Not much to fear in Germany.
    Nightshade
    26th Nov 2013
    4:12pm
    WHEN I WAS A KID MY MOTHER TOLD ME ABOUT WORLD WAR 2 & HOW THE WHEN MACEDONIAN WOMEN KILLED THEIR ENEMY - THEY CUT OPEN THEIR CHESTS & ATE THEIR HEART SO A TO EMPOWER THEMSELVES.
    WE ARE GOING FOR BROKE HERE - so let us not hold back shall we !
    Grateful
    26th Nov 2013
    4:17pm
    ?????SERIOUS???? C'mon everybody, settle down, none of this will happen in our lifetime, unless the government wants to commit political suicide.
    Again, our P.M. should be speaking to all the nation NOW to allay all of this concern. Come on P.M. see what silence causes!!! Please show some desperately needed leadership.
    Anonymous
    26th Nov 2013
    11:45pm
    Grateful
    Everytime he opens his mouth his foot goes into it OR he spews out stuff that comes from ultra right wing think tanks who are funded by corporations and self interest groups.
    I get up each day and reach for my phone to read Reddit to see what new things this marionette fool is spouting. I expect the worst but am always still amazed at the total sell out or stupidity that spews forth.
    Patriot
    27th Nov 2013
    3:53pm
    Nightshade,

    If this was a military tribunal, our pollies would all be found guilty of treason.
    We all know what the rewards are for such acts.

    It's maybe the only way to resolve the impending crisis which is getting closer to our PERSONAL doorsteps every day!

    That's why I suggest we prepare for "The Big Fight" just like in 1215 when the Magna Carta and Heabus Corpus were signed and released the then populus from serfdom.

    Since then we've gone to sleep and the BASTARDS have circumnavigated the controls then put into place very cleverly.

    If we do not wake up soon, the rewards for this will be an ever increasing burden/cost to regain (NOT Retain because we've got no freedom left now). our freedom, dignity & independence!
    carmencita
    26th Nov 2013
    4:12pm
    Lifting pension age to 70 is like trying to squeeze more blood after it has been already drained by a vampire. Ageing process when our body parts start to deteriorate are quite pronounced when we reach 40 years of age. For those involved in heavy manual labour it starts even earlier. How these recommendations were arrived at were simplistic. There are many others who should be targeted to save billions, such as the offices of retired public officials who are still given the privileges of perpetual travel allowances and holding offices with staff paid by taxpayers as part of their retirement package. It is unnecessary to continue to subsidise former PMs and MPs expenditures in millions. The office of governor general and governors in every state are other expenditures we can do without. They are merely decorative -we have museums to preserve history. Government houses can be turned into museums and revenue generating instead of 'money-eating' elephants. Who ever commissioned these people to put forward recommendations to flog everyday Australians more when we are already bleeding to death as a consequence of wrong budget policies and misplaced economies must be blinded by greed.
    moke
    26th Nov 2013
    4:37pm
    ductape - you have hit the nail on the head. What you said is so so so right. If history is correct way back in the 1500 the rich got richer and the poor suffered, seems it isn't any different to day. If the pollies make any extra money they are sure to have a pay rise. When they retire or are voted out make them work the same age as the others till they get their super and no freebies just their superannuation which could most probably keep a few pensioners happy. If the government were to invest some of the tax on wages to cover some the cost of a persons pension things would be less difficult.
    Young Simmo
    26th Nov 2013
    4:51pm
    This pension age thing is not a simple as ABC. Some people are BUGGERED at 50, and some are still competing in sport at 90. I don't profess to have the answer, but it is obvious to me that some sort of evaluating process is required. Maybe an assessment by a Doctor and a Psychologist is a starting point, who knows? Maybe applying for 6 jobs and getting 6 knockbacks in 2 months is good enough for the pension. Come on people, there must be 1000s of ideas out there on how to determine eligibility, tell us all what you reckon.
    Hasbeen
    26th Nov 2013
    5:37pm
    Simmo I think it depends on the job you're in.

    Most advisers & think tank folk, are in nice office blocks, with private underground parking for their cars, & lifts to get to their office. I wonder that they would think if they were a roof tiller, brick layer, or had a couple of kilometers walking, & 40 minutes standing on a bus or train to get to work?

    I have a couple of mates who have closed their business building bodies for trucks to carry horses. One id 59 & the other 61. They are no longer physically able to do the work. They used to call in some of us retired codgers to help, when the load was too high. They had given up trying to employ any of the younger abled bodied men in the area. Those who would work had full time jobs.

    Last time they wanted me to lay the floor in a truck. After a day & a half crawling around, drilling holes through hardwood timber & 1/4" steel framing, I had the floor down, but could not lay the thick rubber non skid matting, & had to give up. Once down on my knees, I could no longer get up without something to pull myself up on. I think I was only 67 at the time.

    Yes it's about time these advisers, who always appear to be academics, got out into the real world, & did a few days actual real work, before shooting their mouths off. I have another mate with a turf farm who could use some help delivering & laying turf.

    A truck load is only about 8 ton, to be unloaded, by hand, then placed & rolled out, also by hand. If they still reckon people should work to 70 after a week of that, I'll listen to them.
    HOLA
    26th Nov 2013
    7:18pm
    I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has trouble getting up off their knees. I have to look around for something to hang on to. Makes me feel like I'm an old codger and I'm only 70(on Sunday), although I have no trouble walking 4 Klms per morning.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    12:15am
    Young Simmo
    Why are you EVEN discussing this…. Australia 3 months ago had the BEST economy in the world, was one of the most egalitarian, had on of the highest Standards of Living, AND the lowest debt levels. These were NOT Labor's claims, they were FACTS established INTERNATIONALLY!

    … we are NOT scraping the bottom of the barrel, it is merely fantasy to enable wealthy corporations who fund right wing think tanks like the Gratton Institute, to spew forth unfounded justification for the Australian people to hand over their hard earned rights, to ensure that those same corporations can rape & plunder this country's wealth and national assets.

    Hence we are, all of a sudden, told that:
    - we need to take our debt up to $500,000,000,000.00 (hope I have enough noughts) BUT are NOT told WHY?!?
    - we need to give tax breaks to the wealthy (foreign included) CORPORATIONS
    - we need to tax the poor, disadvantaged and those with no income by taking up GST on FOOD, HEALTH, & EDUCATION…. the staples of a normal society
    - we need to sell off national assets and pay states to do the same (yes, this one didn't quite make it into the Corporate Media)
    - Australia doesn't have enough money to pay for a reasonable Standard of Living, even though 3 months ago we were COMFORTABLY able to do so
    - that people do NOT have a right to live decently when they become to old to contribute
    - that corporations have the right to make unlimited profits out of our country and put NOTHING back

    BUT really……how much are these Corporations going to EXTRACT from ordinary Australians, to completely reverse our INTERNATIONAL status and Standard of Living in 3 months!!!
    Young Simmo
    27th Nov 2013
    12:25am
    Mussitate, Your lack of confidence in your own comments is reflected in the fact that you need 2 or 3 pages to say what most of us say in a 5 or 6 lines. If you want people to read past the first 6 or so lines, stop all that mental Labor gibberish and get to the point. I notice that of your 20 or 30 comments tonight, I am probably the only one to reply.
    surfer
    28th Nov 2013
    8:33am
    Hi Young Simmo, Moorlands/ Mozzie Bait has to express himself in manuscript form and is still marking all the emails. What knowledge he must have. He makes us all feel like half wits. Anyway elegibility for the pension will be when we all have one foot on a banana skin. Or taking our last gasp. Wow, such generousity.
    moorlands
    28th Nov 2013
    4:39pm
    Hi surfer I would suggest it does not take comments by Musitate to make you feel like a half wit, yes you are correct by the time you are eligible for a pension courtesy of Abbots Mad Hatters Tea Party you may be in time to pay for your own funeral.
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    1:17am
    HI HOLA, TODAY IS SUNDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, i know exactly how you feel about 'getting down'' i have the same trouble, was i SAFEWAY, last week and something i needed was on the lowest shelf, i bent down and was nearly on the floor and couldt get up, a nice man gave me a heave up, i did feel a little embarased but he was very nice and we laughed about it, but it really isnt a laughing matter, my knees ache on a daily basis,
    moke
    26th Nov 2013
    5:13pm
    Young Simmo an assessment by a doctor is very questionable, take a Bricklayer of German descent who is sent to a Doc because his back has given up and he has been told to give up bricklaying or end up in a wheelchair. the Assessing doc tells him he can be a Bowser Attendant or a retail Salesman. The strange thing is while employed in an area that helped young unemployed I sent a young male to apply for a job in a mensware store, he was told that to work in a shop selling mens clothing he needed his HSC not much chance for a Bricklayer in sales and how many Bowser attendants to you see to day. Of course to get disability pensions the Docs are working for the government.
    Young Simmo
    26th Nov 2013
    5:26pm
    moke, it is easy to pluck 1 single scenario out of a million scenarios, I was generalising, so instead of shooting me down come up with a better solution. If you read my comment again you will see I used the word "MAYBE" twice.
    Cheers....Simmo.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    12:40am
    Young Simmo

    Your whole statement is based upon a false premise….. that Australia can't afford to pay pensions AND that Australian's do not have a right to care when they are aged.

    So, why should we be finding solutions to false premises. Australia IS wealthy and we CAN afford to pay for the aged (especially in the future because most people will supplement the aged pension with their own superannuation funds).

    Plus moke is correct…. it is VERY difficult to obtain disability pensions, as doctors do have mandates.
    surfer
    28th Nov 2013
    8:39am
    Please please I want a disability pension as I have a sore toe. But doctors suggest I take a good hard look at myself. Now I need this pension for depression. I am having a poor me right now. So may go off on a world cruise.
    moorlands
    28th Nov 2013
    4:54pm
    surfer, it really should be no problem for you to get a disability pension, I suggest you Google the Mental Health Act.
    moorlands
    28th Nov 2013
    7:17pm
    surfer,I have just looked up the definition of mental disability and it seems that you definitely Qualify.
    Qualification:
    1: Incapable of rational thought.
    2: Easily led by misinformation
    3: Abuse bordering on hatred by opposing views.
    4: Has many split personalities, in which they hear voices. encouraging their hatred.

    I really feel for you, please seek help, and do not deprive yourself of help, plus you qualify for the Disability Pension.
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:57pm
    Phew Mr. Moorlands/Mozzie-Bait You have made my day. A disability pension sounds wonderful. You are so kind. So i will see you there when we line up after our world cruise. You are an inspiration and a revalation. Such knowledge you have on all topics. Have you had your feel better pills yet? How are the fairies at the bottom of your garden????
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    1:23am
    haHA , hope poor musie, masterbate, mozzie has a thick hide, sure knows how to get everyone going,lol
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    8:25am
    Hi Catsahoy--- You gotta have a sense of humour on this site, or Must-you-rate/Moorlands/Musti-Bait/ Mussitate and all his other names would bamboozle us with science. Gloom and doom are his main interests. Unfortunately he has to write long manuscripts to get is message across. Hope your day goes well. A very entertaining site if you don't get too serious.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2013
    3:56am
    Oi…. you would be if you could beeeees…. catsahoy and urfer… duh!

    Just because moorlands comes across as intelligent and can write more than the two line wonders that both of you subscribe to, doesn't mean he/she is me!

    moorlands…… very nice!
    Alby
    26th Nov 2013
    5:14pm
    Is everyone missing the point here. Where are the high flyers in this scenario. No comments about making the tax system fairer so that the Murdoch's, Rinehart's etc. etc. pay a fairer portion of the tax burden. They all screamed blue murder when there was talk about a mining tax. When in actual fact it was probably one of the most sensible approaches being promoted, albeit a little light handed and needing some tweaking. Jaguar wants to blame labor for fritting away the surpluses of the Howard years. He fails to appreciate that those funds being held in surplus by the government of the day were our funds. So we had all these funds in surplus but that particular government pleaded poverty and cut services. At least the Rudd government had the foresight to steer us through the GFC with our credit rating in tact. And for that matter, what is this obsession being in surplus. Like my own household, when there is a need, I borrow money to help me through the tough times. And yes it has to be paid back, but at least I have been able to maintain a living standard of my own choosing. The current governments' policy of slash and cut reinforces the name they have been given of the Abottoir. They will continue to cut and slash in order to have the unrealistic opportunity to say they have killed the Deficit. BUT AT WHAT COST TO THE COUNTRY AND ITS PEOPLE
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    12:45am
    Alby, nice comment. Just one thing though….. Murdoch's henchmen are seeking to actually INCREASE the deficit (SUBSTANTIALLY) to $500,000,000,000 ($500 Billion) without telling us WHY they want to do this OR on what they want to spend it!
    surfer
    28th Nov 2013
    8:41am
    Mussitate, Now you are talking in telephone numbers. I am very confused. Murdoch seems a very nasty man.
    moorlands
    29th Nov 2013
    10:38pm
    Surfer, start with the big toe, ready, one toe, two toe, three toe, four toe, now you are catching up, but still not mature enough to engage in adult forums.
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    6:00pm
    Moorlands--- Are you an adult. Sorry me thinks you are in the wrong forum. I wondered what was wrong with you. A three year old with grown up syndrome.
    catsahoy
    3rd Dec 2013
    11:08pm
    SURFER, i agree entirely, i know whenever i come on this site, i will get a laugh, yes poor old mossie bite masterbate, does go on a bit, i find i only read the first couple of lines , thats enough, its all repeats after that,. its a good place to have your say without being a genius. thanks, did have a good day, hope you did also cheers,
    ,
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2013
    4:03am
    catsahoy…. careful, my tiny little inconsequential one. I will come out to 'play' and I really don't think you have the ounce or the comprehension to go down that path.

    urfer… what! am I turning you on (again)… talking numbers and all…. you can't help yourself can you. Following me around AGAIN I see and now we have your 'slinky sailor boy', following you, trying to impress you with his lack of… well…. just about everything. Just as long as he is tailing you and not me.
    MITZY
    26th Nov 2013
    5:21pm
    If the government decides to adopt the Grattan Institute's recommendations this would be suicidal. Even putting a GST on our fresh food that we fought so hard not to happen would be disasterous. Pensioners find it difficult enough now to buy fresh fruit and vegetables and meat/chicken/fish etc. If they are forced to buy other less nutritional sources of food this will only add to their unwellness in the long run thereby increasing the health bill for the government. These "Think Tanks" will end up ensuring the pensioners turn "to the bottle" for solace, again increasing the health bill!

    If they want to increase the range of goods and services covered by the GST why are they postponing applying GST to all those purchases made via the Internet. Why are people buying from overseas? Why are they not supporting Australian businesses and their employees. More purchases in our own country would add to our GDP and the government would receive more revenue.
    If the Grattan Institute wishes to persecute the pensioner they should at least apply the same principles to the politicians. Why are they able to get their hands on their superannuation as they please? Why do we support sportspeople at places such as the Institutes for Sport in every State? Why aren't they charged a HECS type fee to learn sport just like a student pays to learn education? Why do we need to prop up car industries when we don't prop up other industries? There are hundreds of ways to budget and gain more taxes without targeting the most vulnerable.
    Why haven't we got a female Treasurer? We all know that women are multi-taskers. If we had a female Treasurer, we wouldn't have half of the male politicians because they wouldn't be able to handle the consequences of over-stepping the mark with their frivolous expenses (there would be no more attending weddings in India etc.) Government won't improve until the "MALE THING" diminishes.
    Who would you appoint as Treasurer? It would have to be somebody doing an extremely good job in Private Enterprise at present.

    All I can say is they are testing the waters with these statements. They know there will be a general outcry and a lot of the "Think Tank's proposals will not come to fruition.
    Grateful
    26th Nov 2013
    5:49pm
    I can't believe that all of you are so gullible. NONE of this will happen in our lifetime. ven if they do bring it in it will be brought in very gradually and not come into effect until around 2025-2030.

    It is all sucker bait and the sooner our leader shows some leadership and talks to the nation and tells us what is going on behind the scenes the better.This cloak of secrecy that this government has created is causing so much unnecessary angst. Lucky for them that it is another 3 years before the next elction. the electorate has been dudded, big time and that's why Tony Abbott's days are a;ready numbered. He IS a disaster. How much more proof do you need?
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    12:50am
    I am afraid that the honour of gullibility, goes to you Grateful. We don't have a leader, either, we have a marionette who is a fool and is quite prepared to sell out Australia to the likes of foreigners, such as Murdoch.

    Abbott did the same thing to Rudd…. ridiculing Rudd for taking action to counteract the GFC, as soon as he got into office, saying it was unnecessary…. lucky for us, Abbott didn't get in instead of Rudd, aye! Given that Rudd put Australia's economy, spread of wealth, standard of living AND lowest deficit/debt, as the best in the world…. as established INTERNATIONALLY.
    MITZY
    28th Nov 2013
    2:52pm
    I don't think they will be waiting to 2025-2030 for GST on fresh food, health and education. The Grattan Instititute has released its findings, GST on fresh food as well as all other types of food will increase the weekly shopping bill long before 2025-2030. All governments hit the population with "unpleasantries" in their first terms this one won't be any different.
    Ira
    26th Nov 2013
    5:48pm
    As these are only proposals and not being put up for legislation I would not be too upset. However my think tank proposes that we scrap the state governments, reduce the politicians' pensions to reflect the same as the rest of the people and increase taxes on wealth.

    Simple suggestions that are all revenue neutral to implement. I do not believe we would have to increase GST or the retirement age.

    Of course all those out of work politicians might be a drain on our budgets but as Wendy Harmer once suggested they would make great landfill. What do you all think?
    Wendy HK
    26th Nov 2013
    8:29pm
    If we don't protest about these "proposals" while they are still proposals - we won't be heard when they become reality
    Aussiefrog
    27th Nov 2013
    2:54pm
    Wendy are you aware of any website to fight those proposals or petitions in place?
    Patriot
    27th Nov 2013
    6:06pm
    Ira,

    Landfill is what most of them are good for at the most benevolent consideration!
    catsahoy
    8th Dec 2013
    1:00am
    MUSSIE, MOZZIE, you can can come out and play any time, bring it on, as for being inconsiquential, i assure you , i have more brains in my little toe than you THINK you have ,in all your ramblings,. you should be grateful that at least people get a laugh out of you, whichever name you use, . next move,
    catsahoy
    8th Dec 2013
    1:00am
    MUSSIE, MOZZIE, you can can come out and play any time, bring it on, as for being inconsiquential, i assure you , i have more brains in my little toe than you THINK you have ,in all your ramblings,. you should be grateful that at least people get a laugh out of you, whichever name you use, . next move,
    Rob
    26th Nov 2013
    6:15pm
    Maybe the government could save some money and thereby give something back to the taxpayers if it cutback on the financial handouts to the ABC. No one I have noted has made mention that the CEO of the ABC is on far, far more remuneration than the Prime Minister of this country. What does he (Mr Scott) do to warrant this salary? And for other journalists who appear for only a short time on ABC television surely their salaries are over-blown. When the "old boys' club" is well and truly entrenched in any government area what else can we expect? As for applying GST on food - isn't this simply going too far? We are charged so much for food in Australia, right across the board. People who come from the UK are gob-smacked when they enter a supermarket in our country. They simply do not pay anything like the price of our food. And how does the government expect families to feed their children? I guess the government is not even thinking about the effect on our health system, only raising enough revenue to keep in power. God help our country!
    KSS
    26th Nov 2013
    6:16pm
    There are a number of issues being suggested that I really don't have a problem with in theory. However there does need to be some more groundwork before any should be implemented.
    Raising the retirement age - more jobs will be necessary but more importantly a change in the attitude of employers and their willingness to employ the older worker.

    Using the home to offset health costs - no issue here. The funds are only accessed once the home is sold. The only downside here is that the kids lose their inheritance. So What? You didn't work hard to leave it to them, you worked hard to provide for yourself in later years. The home would not be sold from under you so where is the issue?

    Adding to superannuation - if you have a job that pays over the super threshold then super contributions should continue. Salary sacrifice if you wish. However I do think if there is sufficient in the super fund say $1000000 then stop putting extra money in that and simply save in other means and pay the appropriate tax. You can afford it.

    I do not agree that the home should be taken into account when assessing assets. You can't spend it or eat it. However, you can and should downsize. Why do people want to keep a large family home when there are only 1 or 2 people living in it. Downsize, free up capital and have a smaller state paid pension. Stop accruing wealth to pass to the next generation. Your earned it, you spend it.

    I do not agree with adding GST to fresh food, health or education. Junk food is already cheaper than fresh food that's part of the obesity story. Australian citizens should be entitled to high quality healthcare whenever they need it. However, non-citizens (e.g. permanent residents, business visa holders, students, etc) should not be entitled to the same level of healthcare as citizens. As for education, again citizens should be able to expect and access high quality public education. Should you choose to access private education (or indeed healthcare) then pay the full cost of it. You opt out of the system, that's your right but then you pay. Of course this does rely on having high quality easily accessible education and healthcare everywhere.

    We have to accept that in a few short years there will be more people over the age of 60 than under the age of 20. Who is going to keep paying for services we take for granted. it simply isn't sustainable. Creative thinking is needed.

    And by the way despite the somewhat excessive entitlements of politicians, stripping them all out including those for ex-pollies may give many a sense of satisfaction but it can only be done once. The yield will not very far in the scheme of things so we still need more creative and yes, painful alternatives.
    Nan Norma
    26th Nov 2013
    7:26pm
    There are many other ways the govenment could mi=oney, starting with themselves. There are too many people collecting indecent pay packets. On specialist changed me $95 the first time, $120 the next that asked for $159 the next on acount of the cost of living I was told. The service was exactly the same each time. I decided not to go aagain, and I've been well. It is just pure greed. Like the dentist recently, $259 to pull out a lsmall loose tooth. It is these kind of costs that make it so difficult for pensioners.
    KSS
    26th Nov 2013
    8:23pm
    Yes Nan Norma, health care costs are awful. I too have seen 3 specialists recently, each one charging $280 each time, then there was the $175 scan, physio at $90 a visit..... As I said, Australian citizens should expect to be able to access high quality health care as and when they need it. We are so far down the American route already where health care is only for those that can afford it.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    1:30am
    KSS

    Your comment is good but the aspect about not being able to afford to look after our elderly is based on a false premise.
    The information we have been fed is essentially propaganda to get us to accept that the wealthy corporations do NOT want government money going on welfare and services and that we can not afford to look after our own when they are elderly.

    Australia IS wealthy nation….only three (3) months ago, Australia had the best economy in the world, one of the most egalitarian, highest standard of living AND the lowest DEBT - assessed internationally & NOT by the then ruling party.

    No way can Murdoch's marionette undermine the country that much in three (3) months…. it is NOT possible.

    Therefore, we can only assume that the propaganda is being spread because of what the wealthy (mostly foreign) corporations are GOING to do to Australia…… rape & pillage, to such an extent, that we will NOT be able to afford welfare&services; infrastructure; care of our elderly; etc, etc.

    Especially when the corporations will NOT contribute sufficient taxes, clean up their pollution, replace and repair the destruction of our country, put our small but essential businesses out of business, employ little and pay less (unless management, of course), etc.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    1:35am
    KSS & Nan Norma

    You are both right, I am afraid, our Health System is following the American route and is 'selective' & 'expensive', so that only those with money can acquire it.

    Unfortunately, it is not only the health care system that is heading that way.
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    6:04pm
    Don't worry KSS and Norma---- Musti-Bait is a world authority on everything. Unfortunately he gets confused and loves Murdoch of news paper fame. Loves the Libs/Nats as well after jumping ship when Krudd got kicked out.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2013
    4:11am
    Oh, dear…. urfer….. back to your old habits of stalking I see. I am sorry you are soooooo attracted to me urfer BUT do try & control yourself, my dear old chum.

    Or, in the very least, try something intelligent to comment, no matter how slight …. even if it is necessary for you to go off topic to achieve this (really… any topic will do). It will be fine, everyone else (except catsahoy) will be capable of following it.
    Alby
    26th Nov 2013
    7:07pm
    It should be remembered that the upper limit on assets to be eligible for government benefits is currently around $460,000 not including the family home. Once the family home is included in the assets test, then almost every home owner will ineligible for government benefit, including age pension. What a Coup for the government.
    KSS
    26th Nov 2013
    8:35pm
    I do believe that if you have the assets then why should you get a state pension? Those with say $1000000 in super should not be able to 'hide' it and then claim a pension. In Australia yes we pay taxes but it is not specifically for the pension. So all this 'we paid our taxes and are entitled' is not true. In the UK it would be true since everyone does contribute specifically to the state pension system. In Australia that is what super is meant to do. I will say though that ALL people over retirement age should be able to have a health card and the like. Those that have not been able to amass enough super (women, later arrivals if they are citizens etc) do need to have a safety net. But we have to change this attitude of being entitled to a pension and take more responsibility for out own futures. This is inevitable given the current system is clearly unsustainable as the population ages and there are fewer 'youngsters' paying for the pensions.
    MITZY
    27th Nov 2013
    1:45pm
    KSS: With no super and a set of circumstances of being a carer and leaving the workforce at 55 and not entitled to a pension until 62.1/2 (therefore requiring to go on carer payment/husband disability) using up all accumulated savings on disability aids etc. and the balance of savings lost in investments due to September 11, I'm now on a single pension for the last 17 months. I've already downsized from a four bedroom home with 2 lounge and 2 dining areas and great space, to a three bedroom single level duplex all with disability aids fixed inside and ramps outside. I am on my own, no children, recently got a little miniature poodle, have quite a lot of friends visit me from Sydney and Central Coast. Have many cousins and second cousins who come and stay with me. Have a brother in the U.K. with family who visits. Not prepared to say to him go to a hotel and stay there! I don't intend downsizing any further until I can't walk!!
    I am entitled to a pension, and I'm not changing my attitude, I've looked after a disabled husband with MS for 24 years and prior to that worked on a full-time basis from age 18 to 55. For the past 17 months I've been on the single pension and I can just manage on it being very careful. I deserve my home and my lifestyle at present. This country is not as poor as it is making out to be. This country doesn't have enough workers. People from other countries trying to come here should be welcomed with open arms. They will work, and work hard and pay taxes, you only have to look at the previous make-up of our migration/ethnicity after the Second World War to know it works. These immigrants worked twice as hard as the earlier inhabitants. In fact in the early 50's/60's the Italians and Greeks put the Ozzies to shame as far as work ethics go. Governments could even make young people who SAY they can't find a job, work on community projects, learning work ethics/trades at the same time and possibly being paid the minimum wage and paying tax on it. Otherwise they should go back home and live with their families and their families support them.
    What sort of Treasurer have we created that wants to increase the deficit to $500 billion whilst scrapping carbon tax, mining tax, fbt tax etc. tinkering with Gonski and whatever else is currently in the first term pipeline. Hit em hard as soon as they get into government because in three years' time when we go to the polls again, they'll have all forgotten about the first year. The Government should keep these taxes for a start and get rid of the "high income earners" PPL and restore the current PPL, the current scheme is fair to all. GRATTAN INSTITUTE should go back to its THINK TANK fill it with water and drown themselves in it.
    KSS
    27th Nov 2013
    4:43pm
    And you have the right to make whatever decision you choose. If you choose to maintain a larger property than necessary simply to accommodate overseas family and friends should they choose to visit that is up to you. But I don't believe there is any obligation for the state or tax payers to pay for it. Of course we need to help those who really need help but not support those who have the means but refuse to access them out of misplaced attitude of entitlement.
    KSS
    27th Nov 2013
    4:43pm
    And you have the right to make whatever decision you choose. If you choose to maintain a larger property than necessary simply to accommodate overseas family and friends should they choose to visit that is up to you. But I don't believe there is any obligation for the state or tax payers to pay for it. Of course we need to help those who really need help but not support those who have the means but refuse to access them out of misplaced attitude of entitlement.
    MITZY
    28th Nov 2013
    3:17pm
    KSS: You didn't read what I wrote very well. I've already downsized considerably. The 3 bedroom single level duplex I now live in has 3 bedrooms but only one of them is of a size suitable for a double or queen bed, the other two are single bed size.
    The lounge/dining/kitchen is all in one open plan. The block this duplex is situate on is a block for a modest 3 to 4 bedroom home with small gardens back and front. This "duplex" is built for me and my neighbour (strata plan) a home each most suitable for retired couples. I'm not living in a home JUST TO HOUSE my brother and his family who visit from the U.K. I have friends and relatives visiting me and me them on a regular basis each and every year. Why should I move from a very convenient situation which has all disabilities facilities inside and out which could benefit me in my future old age (I'm now 72). What do you suggest I purchase next? The builder who built these duplexes my neighbour and myself have purchased (by downsizing) has recently built 5 of exactly the same set-up on two normal sized blocks of land. He is building these smaller units basically for retirees. When I purchased mine in April 2011 I was able to purchase it with NO STAMP DUTY APPLIED because I downsized from a large to a smaller premises and the premises I purchased was brand new, not previously occupied by anybody. This was my entitlement from a government who had some foresight. It kept builders in work, released more larger properties for sale, real estate agents in business, retirees in new premises with no major upkeep for years to come, I don't think my property is large and there will be no maintenance for me for years. My brother and family arrives for Christmas, he will take the largest bedroom for him and his wife. I will take one of the single bedrooms. The third bedroom has my computer/office/etc. and a sofa bed. This sofa bed will be used for his wife's brother, who is coming with them.
    By the way, I migrated in 1957 with my Mum/Dad/Brother and self. My Dad died within 2 years of being here when I was 17.1/2. My Mother and brother who was 11 at the time, returned to U.K. I stayed here with relatives. I saw my brother again in 2002 for the first time when I was 61.
    Everybody's home is their CASTLE, if this government wants to start meddling with something that has never happened before, I'm sure they will have a fight on their hands. To hell and back with the Gratton Grabbem Think Tank Unit, they can go drown in their own thoughts.
    MITZY
    28th Nov 2013
    3:31pm
    KSS: Sorry, just had to have my five cents worth. At least my rants don't contain unsuitable language.
    By the way, one more addition: I had to downsize my belongings as well. The "big house" had two lounge rooms and two dining rooms and four bedrooms and a study and two garages, a swimming pool and a very large garden on a block close to 1,000 sqm m. Some lounge/dining furniture and furnishings, beds, household items, etc. were given away to the Salvation Army because I refused to take the small amount of money offered for good quality items. The Salvation Army needed a large and smaller van for what they received.

    I really don't consider myself "selfish" to be in the circumstances I currently live in. It will be a long time before I succumb to living how YOUNG SIMMO does, and this is no reflection onf YOUNG SIMMO. He's happy. So am I!
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:45pm
    Young Simmo has a much better quality of life than people living in second rate houses in the suburbs. Sick of all the noise and lack of privacy.
    fearlessfly
    26th Nov 2013
    8:23pm
    I cannot comment, as foul language would not be published !

    26th Nov 2013
    9:28pm
    FIRST & FOREMOST…… what INDEPENDENT think tank! They are NOT independent…. unless you consider that they are independent from the people of Australia, but they are certainly NOT independent from Corporate & other interests.

    BHP Billiton provided $4 million. Grattan also benefits from SIGNIFICANT support from companies and philanthropic organisations (the latter could be any other support 'institute' which has vested interests).

    MOST IMPORTANT to the corporations making donations - the Grattan Institute has Charitable status with Deductible Gift Recipient (DGR), which means that donations over $2.00 are tax deductible (of course).

    Additionally, Grattan Institute is NOT part of the University of Melbourne but is simply HOUSED there.

    It is a RIGHT WING THINK TANK that supports the corporations and their aims to put OUR money and OUR country in their own pockets and take that away from each and every Australian citizen, especially those that are what they term 'needy'.
    Patriot
    27th Nov 2013
    5:59pm
    Some of us might just DARE call it a CONSPIRACY against the citizens of Australia (and the world) for that matter!?!?!?!?
    As an "Import" I have taken the time to study the Australian Constitution quite a bit and nowhere have I found crap that is in Australian politics described as being legal.
    As somebody once stated a few hundred years ago:"Provide me with the ability to be in charge of the currency of a country and I do not care who or what is in Government".

    26th Nov 2013
    9:29pm
    NOW on to the disgusting propositions put up by this right wing think tank. Although, I must admit, the only thing that surprises me is that they think they are so well sheltered by MURDOCH's puppet government (Abbott & Co) that they are so BLATANT about:

    * increasing (astronomically) taxes of the poor and those without incomes by raising GST on FOOD, HEALTH, EDUCATION. The average pensioner lost about $2000 per annum when they introduced GST but if it is raised on FOOD, HEALTH & EDUCATION, my god, every Australian will be HIT HARD. Those that are wealthy, won't even feel it BUT YOU WILL!
    * decreasing ALL benefits to the old and the 'needy', you thought it bad when Howard slashed and maimed BUT he at least had SOME regard for you, corporate interests DO NOT.

    Gee! How brilliant this institute is! That will put the country on its feet…. oh wait, Australia WAS the BEST economy in the WORLD under labor…. now we have huge $500 BILLION debts that Murdoch wants raised overnight and our economy is sliding down rather that fast (apparently) that we are proposing the desecration of the poorest and most vulnerable people in Australia.

    Yes, I can see that this Grattan Institute is proposing well defined policies that are in the interest of all Australians and not just (foreign?) corporations. ANY FOOL could have come up with these proposals to remove money from Australians and put in in wealthy pockets. They are not intelligent proposals, they are the blatant skulduggery of wolves covering themselves in lamb's fleece.

    Can you feel their hands in your pockets people….. you should because once that money is gone…. they will have no use for you at all. Good luck!
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:41pm
    Lies you silly old fool.
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2013
    7:26pm
    urfer

    Can't counteract it, aye, so we do our nonsense one liner tricks.

    You are so bought and paid for urfer…. you are here to support foreign corporations no matter what…. or you are so very lacking in ANY form of cognitive ability that you simply repeat what you are told by corporate media. TAKE YOUR PICK.

    26th Nov 2013
    9:30pm
    Oh! Isn't amazing that under the previous government (Labor) Australia did NOT need any of these measures because the wealth was spread out amongst Australians (most egalitarian in the world) and Labor had put our economy at the very top of the world and with the lowest debt levels……. ALL during the height of the GFC. Astoundingly GOOD management of Australia.

    Now we have Murdoch's puppet government declaring that we have to take money OFF Australians and NOT provide for our elderly because their is NOT enough money to go around BUT we have to give a HUGE tax break to CORPORATIONS (foreign including).

    Definitely shifting the wealth from the average & poor Australian to the pockets of the wealthy Corporations who do NOTHING for this country except fill their pockets!
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:40pm
    Bullcrap
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2013
    7:28pm
    urfer

    I REPEAT….. you are totally incapable of counteracting any statement of opinion, that you continue with your (abusive) nonsense one liner tricks.

    You are so bought and paid for urfer…. you are here to support foreign corporations no matter what…. or you are so very lacking in ANY form of cognitive ability that you simply repeat what you are told by corporate media. TAKE YOUR PICK.
    pixii
    26th Nov 2013
    11:55pm
    Years ago when Libs brought in GST , promised no tax on fresh food , also if general public have to wait for Super , then politicians should do the same .
    Stop paying maternity leave ,& $5000 baby bonus to those on high incomes, stop all travel allowances for politician families / spouse , the Pollie earns enough to pay their way .
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    1:41am
    pixii

    Don't forget, we can't afford to look after our aged (according to Murdoch's henchman, Abbott) BUT we can afford to pay the equivalent of $75,000 to RICH working MUM's who earn $150,000 or more, to take time off work to have a child. Such an easy thing to rort as well, I have already worked that one out through listening to my wealthy young clients!
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:39pm
    More lies Must you rate. No women earn $150,000 a year. $50,000 maybe. Stop your lies you trouble making twit.
    AlbertC
    27th Nov 2013
    6:35am
    well it seems to me we should have all become polies and claim the perks they get spend ten yrs as a poly then retire get a full pension for life and still be able to work as manager or director of a company or take an overseas posting with out losing one cent of their pension while we can only earn an extra $200 a fortnight before tax where is the justice in that this is very demeaning to the real workers of this country. have a nice day
    Abby
    27th Nov 2013
    7:18am
    THOUSANDS of Australians are paid by the Government to stay at home because they are too fat to work, or have disabilities associated with drug and alcohol addiction

    Will these be affected too?? Or will they be covered by NDIS which is unavailable to the Senior

    Perhaps all people need to get out on the Disability Pension at the age of 59
    BlackCatWalking
    27th Nov 2013
    10:12am
    The government won't withdraw the disability for people who are addicted by drugs and alcohol because it would cost them too much money. If you don't give people with addictions some form of income, they're going to get that money by committing crime, which would cost the government far more than disability each year. It costs over $80,000 per year for one prisoner. Much cheaper to deal with non violent prisoners in the community, with rehabilitation and supervision.

    My understanding is that people who are getting disability because of addictions have to seek treatment for it
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    3:56pm
    Yes it is only older pensioners that are targets with no one to stick up for them and reading the replies here can see why over 65 are the easy targets
    Abby
    27th Nov 2013
    10:46am
    I do not know what the fuss is about when 70 years of age is a good time to start on pension payments - after all what is an extra 3 years on top of the 2 that labor put up and it was always the labor plan to do so.

    A few years back most people started working at the age of 16 - these days the majority start at at 26 or more - some never.

    They live of the Taxpayer all their life and then when they cannot breed anymore they want to retire at 65 or earlier.

    So in actual terms people have a shorter working life, spend all their money and do not put enough aside for their retirement.

    Yes the government should have enough backbone to bring in a retirement after a 50 year working life which should also apply to politicians.
    BlackCatWalking
    27th Nov 2013
    11:17am
    Because not everyone is capable of working up until that age. Like the other posters hear have already mentioned. Those who have to work in low paid physical jobs are often not physically capable of lasting past 55 in their working life, let alone 70. It doesn't mean that they spent all there money and didn't save for retirement. That's just ignorant. Some people work two or three jobs just to make ends meet with nothing left over for saving.

    Getting disability is extremely difficult, the assessment has been tightened up. Even if you are capable of working more, age and disability discrimination is rife in the workplace.

    People over the age of 50 who have been retrenched find it difficult to get work again, any work, as employers won't hire them, there's plenty of research out there. Doesn't matter how qualified or experienced you are. These people are then chucked onto Newstart which is a paltry amount of money compared to the pensions. Not only does that small amount of money prevent you from finding work, it also comes with ridiculous and punishing mutual obligation activities which hinder peoples ability to find work, and exacerbates those with disability.
    BlackCatWalking
    27th Nov 2013
    11:58am
    Though pensioners are often depicted as depending on the public purse, such tax-financed transfers make up less than 60% of their gross incomes on average in the OECD. Reliance on the state is heaviest in Europe; in Belgium and Finland public pensions account for more than 80% of income. Elsewhere in the OECD, a 34-strong club of mainly rich countries, the elderly rely more on work and capital (ie, savings and private pensions). These sources are pre-eminent in Chile, a country that switched to a system run by private-sector pension funds in 1981. Other countries have not gone as far but are moving in the same direction, to put less strain on public finances. Higher retirement ages also mean more income for the elderly and less burden on the state. On average across the OECD, a quarter of income received by the over-65s comes from work.

    This is an excellent Bar Chart from The Economist showing Pensions across 16 countries. Australia sits 13th and under the OECD average for relying on the public taxes to fund pensions.

    I don't think there is any kind of crisis or cost saving to be done here.

    Here is the graph, you'll have to cut and paste in your browser.

    http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/2013/11/blogs/graphic-detail/20131130_gdc854.png
    HOLA
    27th Nov 2013
    2:53pm
    My step-son was made redundant from the bank where he had been employed from the age of 25. He was a Bank Manager for many years and was then shifted to a bank in the western suburbs, travelling was time consuming. He was then aged 50 and is now unemployable. He got a part time job in a menswear shop and every interview he had was told he was too old for the job he was applying for. So much for the ads which say "Must be Experienced".
    Nutriwise
    27th Nov 2013
    4:57pm
    I couldnt agree more, experience doesn't seem to count these days.
    Patriot
    27th Nov 2013
    3:04pm
    IS YOUR HOME A BURGLAR TARGET!
    Is todays title of the daily Senior's e-mail.

    I would say that this is very appropriate after yesterdays headline.
    Yes, our homes are indeed very much in danger of being confiscated by the thieves & crims in Canberra.
    Such, as to me the current indications are that they'll make sure that - if we're lucky enough to hang onto it in our lifetime - they'll find a way to steel the title deed from our children the day we're gone and before the "Body is Cold".

    To avoid this, we must, I believe start organising ourselves now in order to be ready for "The Fight".
    Lack of foresight now will cost us dearly in the end.

    Lets get Senior's Power Mobilised.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    4:08pm
    Patriot we have tried here for 3 years to do just that over at the Meeting Place and even put up thread re this - guess what not one poster there and the admin here collect the view of seniors and collecting those to date here mean no resistance to anything re adding home to assets meaning many will end up with zero pension if home is in a city and the city have enveloped it so land it sits on means worth 1/2 or 1 million etc. Sell only answer and buy in country but where in country are cheaper homes these days?
    Abby
    28th Nov 2013
    3:21am
    Seniors Party membership is currently free. You can join at http://www.seniorsparty.org/mship.html
    Patriot
    28th Nov 2013
    9:46am
    Thanks Abby,
    I have enrolled and so should - in my opinion - many "other Contancerous Cusses" so that these Bastards in Canberra get a "Run for their (our) Money".
    Start opposition now before it's TOO LATE!!!
    grumpy old woman
    27th Nov 2013
    3:18pm
    Increasing the pension age will not create jobs for young people, many of whom run the risk of growing up without ever having held down a job.

    Workplaces have become far more stressful than they were in the sixties and even in the eighties. Are we in danger of moving people onto disability pensions (through stress - and stress has physical manifestations too) in an effort to cut age pensions? This would undoubtedly increase health costs.

    GST on fresh food will not encourage people with limited incomes to eat a healthy diet but rather the opposite leading to more demands on the health budgets.

    Oh, and if your employer closes down how are you, if over 50, to get another job?
    BlackCatWalking
    27th Nov 2013
    3:40pm
    Good points Grumpy. There are not enough newly created positions for young people to enter into the employment market at the same time as extending the working age for seniors.
    Monty
    27th Nov 2013
    3:40pm
    For Heaven's sake; most of these comments seem to be the class of "blame the previous government". That is standard political b/s and it goes on at every change of government. What is at question here is "will we be able to afford our new government"? Frankly, for most,I think the answer will be NO. They are cutting this that and everything else. The latest is school funding. So much for election promises.
    I guess that I am not too badly off: a quad bike put me out of the workforce 10 years ago, buggered my leg. Workers comp. support will cut out at the end of the year. I am only 27% impaired. The cut off is 30%.
    I have my own eggs, meat (sheep, goats and cattle) and a roof over my head. There will be many who are not so fortunate.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    5:04pm
    Monty again you miss the point - the past government borrowed up to the hilt - having brought in a Debt Ceiling which will be reached in December, past government, now Opposition plus Greens, now say will refuse to lift it - playing politics.
    Seems likely we are broke just about due to spending more than we are getting in and if anyone falls for the "we are a wealthy country" then brainwashed because of course we are not at all, were once but all spent over last 18 years by blue and red in middle class welfare and thousands of incoming people adding to cost of services, public housing and far too many not working, so adding to welfare cost too.
    And less income as carbon tax and RET tax has driven even more offshore then cheap labour did prior. Meaning very few unskilled jobs available.
    But the article is about how to claw back some spending. 37 billion. Nothing re gaining more by taxing higher for those on very high incomes like putting the lot onto PAYG and then try to get back legally like workers do at years end. Would know to a cent what all are drawing in income. And get billions to use too. Not paying interest on borrowing through the tax year.
    Far too often read on forums etc the brain washing that those on the age pension actually didnt save any from their wages for retirement but 'pissed it all away" and now expect the young ones to go without to pay for their pensions" not true of course.
    It is coming home to roost because not one group of those over 65 are pulling together so easy targets and the one easiest to go for is Age Pension. And adding the family home will mean some on it today, whose home is inner city or valued highly could lose every cent of pension and have to sell.
    So will it come about?
    Chances are some of it may well do so if no one bothers to tell them different.
    Where are the cries of disgusting from those who live off representing the elderly ?
    moke
    27th Nov 2013
    4:59pm
    Well perhaps we need to use our pensioner rail allowance to travel to Canberra and all sit in front of Parliament house and let them know just how we oldies feel about their rubbishy ideas of how to govern our country.
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    5:07pm
    Could all join Henry's party of course but few bothered to do so and he has worked hard along with others. Was free. Just to have enough to lobby would do. Betty where are you?
    moorlands
    30th Nov 2013
    10:02pm
    Hi BigVal, Interested, but, " Was free. Just to have enough to lobby would do? " does enough mean money?
    ggrob
    27th Nov 2013
    5:59pm
    Okay guys! Those who made these suggestions plus current politicians who think all this a good idea - come into the real world. If you place yourelf in the shoes of an ordinary pensioner, and lived that way for a month, maybe you might realise we don't just sit around and do nothing except eat and sleep, with no thought for others and no joy needed in our lives. Our children are so busy with their lives they don't have enough time for us, except for a birthday (when we might GIVE a present not receive!) or christmas (when much is expected as we used to do before retirement). So there is no way out there!
    single pensioners without their own place do it harder and couples do it even harder. For those with a home, we are jsut ok, but be aware!- we don't get double the single pension, but only 3/4 of it (old adage 2 can live as cheap as one?)
    Forget it all, put the oldies (those that achieve pension age) into a housing settlement/ghetto, give them vouchers for food, clothing etc and keep the rest of the money for yourself. If something needs fixing - forget it, let them manage/cope. No air-conditioning or heaters allowed, and that way they'll die off quicker!
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    9:41pm
    Always knew there was a use to be found for those detention camps out West in the donga.....
    Boof
    27th Nov 2013
    6:16pm
    Blame Labor. Bullsh..t. If all the idiots had not voted for TONY ABBOTT, and believe in the Tooth Fairey,. I hope you all suffer.
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    8:38am
    Hi Every one, Only Tony can save us. Lets all get down on our benders and pray we can get up again. Labor is to blame for all our woes. Come on Boof, get real, and three cheers for our Tony.

    27th Nov 2013
    9:33pm
    I do trust that such suggestions will also include raising the age at which pensioners can access their superannuation as well, and will place the same restrictions on their pension when that time comes

    I would suggest, as things stand, that means the automatic withdrawal of current early pensions being paid to those politicians currently receiving them under age of retirement, and that they will be required to refund the amount already paid back into the coffers, or as a man named Vanstone once infamously said - they'll just have to sell their homes to pay their debt!

    I causes me immeasurable distress to think how hard this move, if properly followed thro7ugh as it rightly should be, will make life for politicians past and present.

    In fact - my heart bleeds for them!

    Now - let's hear some SENSE from these monkeys for a change. Any 'Black Hole' in budgets is of their creation - the only net cost of welfare is inflation, which is offset in any case by the guaranteed level of economic activity from welfare - and opportunity cost - the 'cost' of not being able to place that money somewhere else.

    Now - what that means to me is that, rather than eying off the retirements of those older etc - governments really need to take a long hard look at where they are spending money - and work out what is actually generating these 'Black Holes' - AND FIX THEM!

    I'd suggest a long, hard, cold look at the offshoring of billions for those Indian and Chinese billionaires etc who are joining our local crop of nouveau riche to exploit our resources, a process that, in natural gas for example, will RAISE the local cost of gas!
    Anonymous
    27th Nov 2013
    9:56pm
    My apologies - the first sentence should read 'the age at which POLITICIANS can access their superannuation as well'......

    27th Nov 2013
    9:44pm
    Oh - and 'third most prosperous country in the world ' - with 7% and rising unemployed (declared) probably times 3 in reality - 40% of the workforce (not the population) not in regular paid employment, and now a jihad against pensioners due to economic disaster wrought by our political leaders?

    I=f this is prosperity - I dread the hard time coming....

    I say let the politicians lead from in front, and take the first hit on pension rights.. etc....
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    8:41am
    Well at least it is a nice sunny day in Queensland. Sun and fun on the beaches. Wow I am having a cracker. Love life and buggar all pollies.
    Young Simmo
    28th Nov 2013
    12:26am
    OK I am not skiteing or bragging, but just want to show people coming up to retirement that there is a way to do it fairly comfortably. Like a lot of people born around the 1940s -50s, we never had any real persuasion to save for retirement. After a Triple Bypass at 62 , Rio Tinto decided I was spent force and refused to renew my contract. ( They thought I would be useless, where I was 10 times as fit as before the Opp.) Anyway I retired at 62 and have enjoyed the last 11 years to the hilt.
    HOW, I hear you say.
    Well it is all to do with our circumstances. We own and live in an onsite caravan with large annex, patio, 2 garden sheds and heaps of space. We live 1,000 Kms out of the city, and get $658, $658 and $115 carers, total $1431 per fortnight. Because we are in a Caravan park, our rent is $230.00 per F/night and about $40.00 per F/night power. Most fortnights we can save $300 to $400 if we don't have any special projects on. Over our life we have bought and sold 3 Brand New houses, but because of circumstances beyond our control have ended up in a Caravan Park. We are a pair of happy Chappies and want for nothing. If you are coming up to retirement you may see a tip in here somewhere. OK I have spilt my guts, but if it helps one couple out of 23 million people, I will sleep well.
    Good luck….Young Simmo.
    PS, I really earn my Carers Payment, before anybody decides to come after me.
    BlackCatWalking
    28th Nov 2013
    7:58am
    Well done! I salute you and good on you for being honest and transparent.

    It's good to see someone actually providing practical support on here. That's what this website was set up for in the first place. To either help people with factual information, or, for each of us to share stories and get helpful advice.

    It makes a nice change from the usual criticism and blaming that goes on.
    surfer
    28th Nov 2013
    10:36am
    Hi Young Simmo----- Well your email should be an inspiration to all older Australians. It was to me, and will do more good than all Must-you-rates manuscripts put together. Sick of all his doom and gloom. I am also sick of hearing what people don't have, and they should all be grateful for how well we are looked after in this wonderful country. I really enjoyed your honest email and can say it will be a big help to many sorry for themselves and ungrateful types. Our health is the most important issue, and if you have that you have everything. I loved to hear you are happy chappies and know you have shown how to live within your means. Does need a bit of guts thrown in at times. Thank you again for such a helpful and excellent contribution. We don't want to be like the whingeing poms do we!!!!
    moorlands
    28th Nov 2013
    11:52am
    Yes well done Simmo, seems we are the same age and likewise because of injury I was laid off at 64, but we were worriers and always saved ( for that rainy day) and went without things that others were enjoying, I would advise youngsters do'nt be a silly as us, spend it! because of our savings we have never received one red cent from the Government, and despite losing a third of our savings during the GFC we still enjoy life.
    speakup
    28th Nov 2013
    6:41am
    There is a much easier way to get out country back in the black instead of targeting Pensioners ,get rid of State Governments and all the greedy Politicians connected with them.Then reduce the number of Government employees by 50% .We are the most over governed and overpaid country in the world with 24 million people .What would be the % of actual non Government workers to Government employees .The Australian Government Bureau of Statistics does not have an answer ,"NO RESULTS FOUND" is their reply
    surfer
    28th Nov 2013
    10:49am
    Hi Speakup--- I agree with all you say, and from my info, there are over 50% non productive bureaucrats bleeding our country dry. It is a pathetic joke for such a small population to have all these state governments and out of control local governments. We should have only one government for the country and most local governments should be run by an administrator. We have always been over governed and fleeced by all these non productive leeches. This is a very wealthy country being milked, not only by these bureaucrats but by many workers that are not properly supervised and spend most of the day dodging work. That is why we have about 10 people doing work that only needs four. No wonder we cannot compete with overseas countrys with the production of anything.
    MITZY
    28th Nov 2013
    3:49pm
    Speakup: If you reduce government employees by 50% which includes ALL OF THEM, i.e. the one's actually broadcasting to us every day of the week. My home will be confiscated in a flash of an eyelid. People (especially government employees) earn BIG MONEY and pay TAXES ..... we can't afford less taxes, pensions will be out the window in a flash!!
    MITZY
    28th Nov 2013
    3:54pm
    50% unemployment means no money to spend, more hand-outs on NEWSTART. How's the "wheel going to keep turning"?

    Speakup you may have to try wording your question in a dozen different ways before you get an answer. That many times I have asked a google question and got the NO RESULTS FOUND response. It takes a lot of time and patient if you are not computer savvy.
    HOLA
    28th Nov 2013
    9:09am
    How many elderly married women in the workforce really need to be working?. I know of a few of my friends who don't need to work, they told me they are bored at home, all the kids are grown up and have moved out, hubby is not ready to retire, and so they earn an income to save for their next holidays. No wonder the poor school leavers are disillusioned trying to find a part time job to gain experience.
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    8:43am
    Spot on Hola, and hope the birthday went well yesterday.
    Rob
    28th Nov 2013
    2:43pm
    What is amazing in all the new "think tank" brilliant ideas on how to hit the pensioners over the head in order to claw back all the wasted money by previous governments, whether they be Labor or Liberal, is where are all these available jobs? Does the government intend to bring out of the mothballs, all those who have not yet reached the age of 70 and apply the screws to them? And, if so, recently the government announced that they will be allowing 457 visas to people from financially striken European countries such as Spain and Italy to work in Australia. Just where will the job opportunities come from? Maybe a much higher stamp duty and other government charges should be charged on enormously expensive real estate that the Chinese millionaires are buying up at such a rapid rate, as reported on the November 27, 2013 ABC 7.30 Report. And there should be an immediate inquiry into just how many homes, land and other properties are owned by foreigners/companies and at what financial benefit has it been to government coffers. As to younger Australians, ever being able to afford a home that was clearly reported in the ABC 7 30 Report. It was reported that the greedy real estate salespeople are pushing the prices up to an even higher level than advertised when competition is so keen. Maybe when pensioners are forced out of their own homes if a moderate home is deemed to be much more expensive because of this artifically inflated real estate situation now being heavily pushed and supported by foreign buyers, there will be the "new poorer pensioners" living on the streets who will not qualify for the aged pension . This current greed will see more people struggling in Australia because of greed and totally inept governments. Is this what we voted for? A very clear message should be sent to any government who very obviously does not care about people who for years paid for all their benefits.
    Paddles
    28th Nov 2013
    10:41pm
    I confess from the start that I am not at all musically gifted but, if I were, I would compose some catchy little tune and dedicate it to our own Mussitate.
    Lyrics........Ah! there's the rub! They would have to be framed around a few key words or phrases including (but not limited to)..........
    MURDOCH
    MEDIA (foreign owned)
    WORLD'S BEST ECONOMY
    MOST EGALITARIAN
    ENVY OF THE WORLD
    ABBOTT
    LICKSPITTLE (?)
    CORPORATIONS (foreign owned)
    RUDD/GILLARD

    Surely some catchy tune, suitable for a sing-along, could be constructed around these key points so that we could all sing it on a basis as regular as Mussitate uses them.
    moorlands
    29th Nov 2013
    12:38am
    Sorry, Paddles do'nt get it,I get the Murdoch, Media(foreign owned)(Abbott,Lickspittle?) Corporations(foreign owned) , but the rest just refers to the last six years when things were on the upturn, enlighten us?
    Paddles
    29th Nov 2013
    10:19am
    moorlands

    Bottom line is I am just taking the piss out of Mussitate who, despite showing the occasional flash of intelligence, ruins it by the repetitious nature of his offerings.
    I am past the point where I need to read his unbalanced diatribe because he is so predictable that we all know basically what he will say.
    On the other hand, I guess he may be just yanking our chain for his own warped sense of fun.
    moorlands
    30th Nov 2013
    12:01am
    Yeah Paddles, You got it , yanking the chain keeps the brain moving, and with the mob we have now in charge our brains should be well stimulated, unbalanced? read the Australian!
    surfer
    30th Nov 2013
    7:00am
    PADDLES PADDLES Are you not aware that Mussitate is Moorlands. He now operates under the two names. Have a good look at his contributions and you will see for yourself. He has always been pulling the chain to try to stir up the Lib/nats supporters. He has a lot of time on his hands and must spend all day typing his biassed socialist trype. Seems to love Murdoch.
    Henry
    29th Nov 2013
    9:04am
    How much could be saved by decreasing the politicians salaries and perks? I'm talking about their basic salary of around 149K per year, their amazing superannuation package, their chauffer driven fleet of cars, their international business or first class travel and their other benefits such as claims for going to watch the footy, etc. I am aware all this together will not make for a 10% of what they could get if they start touching our pension.
    Here I am not pushing the Seniors Party, but oh boy: do we need representation in Canberra.
    Henry
    29th Nov 2013
    9:08am
    another thing: I think we should concentrate on trying to find a solution to the problem rather that spending so much time trying to fine a name or a group to blame it all on.
    MITZY
    29th Nov 2013
    9:29am
    Henry : Politicians live in a bubble, immune to people's feelings outside that bubble. Living in a bubble gives them the opportunity to enjoy each other's company, perks, etc. and if you live in a bubble with all the other pollies of like-mindedness, you are always right.
    The bubble people earn huge salaries and perks. They are too busy enjoying these to worry about anybody else. To give us an indication that they are doing something, they engage the likes of the "GRABBEM INSTITUTE" to think for them. The "Grabbem Institute" is made up of people who think similarly to Pollies, so there is no hope for anyone outside of the bubble .... however, if we bombard the "Grabbem Institute" they will become frightened and join their compatriots inside the bubble. Now, once we get them in their too, we can attach some hellium gas and float them off to parts unknown. Or we could fill the bubble with water and drown the lot of them.

    Henry, after all this is achieved, we can appoint you and your beautiful Ha Ha Ha moniker in charge of all of us. We couldn''t be any worse off, could we?
    Henry
    29th Nov 2013
    11:18am
    ANYTHING will be better! I am Mr anything, would you choose me? (ha-ha-ha!)
    Ted
    29th Nov 2013
    11:34am
    Sorry I couldn't read all the responses and replies. A few years back when this was first raised the issue was at the time that most companies would need to totally rethink their working hours structures and look at many different ways older people could continue to work and to take into account their functional limitations. For instance, the concept of full time work needs to be re-examined. Maybe older people could work 3- 4 hours a day if they have functional limitations, work three days instead of five and so on. We would also need supportive policies and different types of leave and so on. The same considerations were also being talked about for parents.
    The fact is if this is going to occur then we need to rethink working environments and make the more supportive for the older worker. I think that the retirement age will eventually go like it has overseas. The government has for a long time been changing our support systems into user pays. I have seen this over the last 15 years working in aged care.
    The simple fact is if this is going to occur then there needs to be a whole of nation response to ensure that there are more flexible attitudes towards all sorts of different work situations, not just for older people, but younger people with families etc. If the government wants all to work then there must be a structure in place that supports that scenario. The old 9 - 5 Monday to Friday scenario is so out dated and holds this country back in the last century.
    Maybe we should all start putting pressure on politicians to start to review everything about working, how we do it, where we do it, when we do it and so on. This is going to affect everyone in very different ways into the future.
    Let's stop winging about it and start pressuring the government to put real solutions in place that support the very people that they want to work.
    Plus they must also lead by example and get rid of their retirement structure and put in the same structure that ordinary aussies have. Of course that will never happen!
    The whole system needs to change and only an insightful, for thinking government will ever do that.
    Henry
    29th Nov 2013
    2:59pm
    Ted: Very well said. I agree with your recollection of past events. I too remember these changes that never took place.
    Some seniors want to continue on working, other prefer to receive a pension. Be as it may governments should be flexible enough to accommodate both.
    As Australians will continue on living longer and longer what are we going to do in the future, raising the retirement age to 90? It sounds ridiculous, doesn't it!
    You say: QUOTE-We would also need supportive policies and different types of leave and so on UNQUOTE. This is a job The Seniors Party will definitely be taking on board. Should you not be a member as yet, please do so to help us with the formulation of said policies. If you are, please contact me at info@seniorsparty.org to discuss this matter further.
    Ted
    29th Nov 2013
    11:37am
    Just another quick point, a lot of research undertaken over the last 10 years shows that people who are active beyond 60 and 65 will lead a better quality of life and live longer. So how is the government going to compensate for this. If this occurs then it is very likely that we will have a great deal of people living in their 90's who are very active and very healthy and want more to do. One problem solved creates a whole raft of other problems.....thank goodness for volunteering!
    moorlands
    29th Nov 2013
    12:48pm
    er, um er, Abbott has just er, been um, on TV, er I wish er, he would stop um, er, nodding um, his head, my TV er, nearly fell off um, it's stand.
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    12:09pm
    He is far superior than the baby kissing Krudd. What a show pony he was. At least Abbott is well educated. Moorlands/Mussitate are you some rhode scholar or speech therapist.
    moorlands
    1st Dec 2013
    3:59pm
    Perhaps suppository, means something different than up your bum, to a Rhodes scholar?
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:33pm
    Just a dickhead describes you
    postage stamp
    29th Nov 2013
    1:39pm
    Prince Charles turns 65 and will start claiming a pension because of his short service in the navy and his volunteer work he is eligible."so there"
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:34pm
    Then he can spend his time talking to his plants. Bat eared drip.
    Young Simmo
    29th Nov 2013
    6:06pm
    I just received this e-mail and thought it might be worth sharing in here.
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    Someone please tell me what the Hell is wrong with all the people that run this country!!!
    Both LABOR & LIBERALS
    We're "broke" and can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless, Etc???
    In the last years we have provided direct cash aid to...

    Congo - 359 M
    Egypt - 397 M
    Ethiopia - 981 M
    Haiti - 1.4 B
    Hamas - 351 M
    Iraq - 1.08 B
    Jordan - 463 M
    Kazakhstan - 304 M
    Kenya - 816 M
    Libya 1.45 B
    Mexico - 622 M
    Mozambique - 404 M
    Nigeria - 456 M
    Pakistan - 2 B
    Russia - 380 M
    Senegal - 698 M
    South Africa - 566 M
    Sudan - 870 M
    Tanzania - 554 M
    Uganda - 451 M
    Zambia - 331 M,
    And with literally Billions of Dollars and they still hate us!!!
    Our retired seniors are living on a 'fixed income'
    Do they get any breaks while our government and religious organisations pour Hundreds of Billions of $$$$$$'s and Tons of Food to Foreign Countries!
    We have hundreds of adoptable children who are shoved aside to make room for the adoption of foreign orphans.
    “AUSTRALIA”
    A country where we have......homeless without shelter, children going to bed hungry,
    elderly going without needed medication and mentally ill without treatment... etc.
    YET. . .
    We still allow illegal "Boat People" & other free loaders on our shores
    While we are lining up with food, clothes, bedding, doctors and medical supplies.
    Imagine if the "GOVERNMENT" gave 'US' the same support they give to other countries.
    Sad isn't it?
    moorlands
    30th Nov 2013
    12:10am
    Hi Simmo, Ask Tony, he will probably blame it on Labor.
    Young Simmo
    30th Nov 2013
    12:17am
    moorlands, look again at the top of my comment.
    I said.....Both LABOR & LIBERALS
    They are all overpaid ARSOLES, and you know what we get from ARSOLES.

    Give you a clue, it aint Strawberries and Cream.
    surfer
    30th Nov 2013
    7:09am
    Hi Simmo--- I agree that all pollies are arseholes intent on the plundering of the public purse. It is not that we don't have lots of money, but the way it is handled and distributed. Corruption seems to have filtered through all departments of business these days. Aussies ripping off Aussies is the name of the game. Once you retire and the income stops. you become very aware of what is happening. Like paying up front for things before you get them. Bloody ridiculous. I am off to dream about strawberries and cream. Taking my dog for a walk, makes me feel normal and away from all the sh'''t.
    moorlands
    30th Nov 2013
    2:28pm
    Thanks Simmo, you just gave me some new bait for Surfer, Surfer you talk a load of Strawberries and Cream.
    moorlands
    1st Dec 2013
    11:08am
    Abbott is now on the Bolt report, he said Ah, Um, ER, Andrew. Really interesting interview.
    moorlands
    1st Dec 2013
    11:18am
    If he ca'nt talk intelligibly from a script, how is he going to talk intelligently off the cuff with world leaders? If it talks like a pratt, looks like a pratt, then its a 'pratt.
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    12:17pm
    Moorlands/Mustitate/ Mozzie Bait/Masturbate/ Must You rate/ Well we will feed you on strawberries and cream if that is what you think of it. If it would shut you up for a while, that would be a bonus. Question--- Why are you hiding under the name Moorlands. Has everyone had enough of Mussitate plus all your other names. You are such a tosser. Abbott would'nt wipe his feet on you.
    Young Simmo
    1st Dec 2013
    12:43pm
    Surfer, I was talking down at the shopping centre yesterday to Muss-I-rant--- Land-no-moor etc, and he had a worried look on his face.
    I said "What's the problem".
    He said "My old bricklayers hands are getting old, dry and scaly".
    I said "So what".
    He said " So They hurt when I go fast"
    I said "Slow Down"
    He said "I have slowed down, now I am having trouble deciding whether I should buy KY Jelly or Johnson’s Baby oil".
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    1:27pm
    Hi Young Simmo, At least we are both happy chappies, which is more than you can say for Masturbate. With a name like that he needs lots of baby oil. One of those old blokes with a chip on his shoulder. Has lots of medication, but even then every thing is wrong. Nothing is ever right. Do you think he is a whingeing POM. Perhaps that has hit the nail on the head.
    moorlands
    1st Dec 2013
    1:50pm
    Oh you two are so nasty to me, you've really hurt my feelings, compared to you Aqua is really nice.
    surfer
    2nd Dec 2013
    11:17am
    Well Mr. Must you rate/Moorlands, you stop being a naughty boy and stop peddling all those lies, and please take your medication.
    moorlands
    3rd Dec 2013
    12:10am
    Thank,s Simmo, I would like to try that , based on your personal use which one would you reccommend?
    Young Simmo
    3rd Dec 2013
    12:37am
    Well moorlands, that depends on whether you are a Hardy that thinks he is a Softy. Or a Softy that thinks he is a Hardy.
    Fill in the blank spaces, and I will tell you exactly where your stand,,,,,, or lay.
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2013
    8:00pm
    Young Simmo

    Disappointed YS, your personal and pathetically nasty attacks on moorlands and mwah, are childish. We expect such behaviour from urfer because he has problems with any form of cognitive activity but you have reached an all time low.

    Just because you voted for Liberal since 1958, doesn't mean you have to take it out on us just because what we have said about the Libs, has panned out as true. Longevity allows you to grow and learn…. I have! I used to vote for the Libs when I was younger because I was in the thick of money and the use of it but after awhile it sickened me when I saw their attitude towards the average person and lack of total concern about the whole of Australia. Everything was directed at making more and more money with no limitations and no responsibility to anyone or anything but themselves.

    I dislike many Labor policies as well but in terms of what Rudd did for Australia, I was completely gob smacked and accordingly he got my highest regard and support. Overall, he did a brilliant job FOR Australia….. as assessed by INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS by INTERNATIONAL BODIES.

    All you have to do YS is STOP reading and listening to Commercial Corporate Media (foreign), they just confuse you with 'double talk' and printing everything from the point of view of these elite parasites. Get an app for you phone and download Reddit for your Australian & International news, not perfect but better.
    moorlands
    1st Dec 2013
    4:39pm
    Ah well another Sunday morning, ( my favourite time on TV) has come and Gone.

    Good morning and welcome to the Bolt report, Truth No Fear, Favour not to those left leaning ABC commo Bastards and their journalist mates who do'nt work for Rupert. Our guest this morning is Prime minister Abbott.

    Bolt; Good morning Prime Minister now those mongrel leftist commos are accusing you of governing in secret, what do you think......

    Abbot: Er well Andrew the Australian er electorate have told us Andrew that they um are sick of Labours incessant thinking, so Andrew the coalition er will only be thinking when, er it is necessary Andrew to er think, it is er necessary Andrew er to think, we will Andrew be thinking every Friday, but will not disclose our um thinking if it jeopardizes our er security Andrew especially Operation Strawberry Fields or anything to do with water or land. And if the Labour party Er, oppose us Andrew by Um, trying to reintroduce thinking, I would Um remind them Andrew that we have a MANDATE from Er the Electorate to abolish thinking.
    surfer
    1st Dec 2013
    5:29pm
    You are pathetic moorlands/mussibait. No one reads your stupid manuscripts any more. Why don't you forget about being funny. It dose'nt work.
    Anonymous
    11th Dec 2013
    7:38pm
    Thanks for the compliment urfer but moorlands is a different person to mwah!

    Poor old duff urfer, look closely now…...mussitate…..moorlands, they are different, yes!

    I, nor moorlands, I assume, need more than one alias….. not like you surfer & Surfer, aye old sock.

    You're funny but more comical than lol type funny.
    moorlands
    1st Dec 2013
    6:01pm
    But you read it surfer so I suppose others read it too, like it or leave it? but so far yours is the only abuse I have received, give Aqua time to compose his thoughts and spelling, Simmo well he is a victim of all that is wrong in this egalitarian? Australia but I wish him and his partner well, and although most of us have disclosed our age, you have not. I have disclosed that I have no need of Taxpayer assistance but I suggest that you are a paid mouthpiece hypocrite on behalf of vested interests? your other alias wouldn't be Bolt would it?
    moorlands
    1st Dec 2013
    11:06pm
    Sorry surfer, no disrespect intended, but you are obviously more intelligent than Andrew Bolt.
    Young Simmo
    2nd Dec 2013
    1:06am
    Well I have been a Liberal voter since 1958, but I can feel a change coming on. There are many reasons why but, this could be the straw that broke that famous back. In the West Australian "Sunday Times" a couple of weeks ago, the following story was written.
    Despite the Coalition promising not to increase the GST at the last election, the tax office has issued a draft ruling that people living in mobile homes should pay GST on the rent of long term sites and land.
    Up to 100,000 families who own a mobile home but rent the site could pay GST for the first time. Many of the families include pensioners and low-income families who own there own mobile home, but pay site fees between $100 and $250 a week in rent. They could face a bill up to $1,200 a year if the 10% tax was applied.
    Interestingly I have a couple of thousand receipts and all of them have “Including GST “ on them, which is usually $15 to $18 depending on the power bill. Now I am wondering if I can go the Park Owners for 1200 bucks a year for the last 13 years.
    Come on there must be a lot of people living in Caravan Parks that can make a contribution here.
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:04am
    young simmo, i also read that people living in caravan parks were going to be paying more, i didnt hear how much, just that the fee would increase,
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:04am
    young simmo, i also read that people living in caravan parks were going to be paying more, i didnt hear how much, just that the fee would increase,
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:04am
    young simmo, i also read that people living in caravan parks were going to be paying more, i didnt hear how much, just that the fee would increase,
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:04am
    young simmo, i also read that people living in caravan parks were going to be paying more, i didnt hear how much, just that the fee would increase,
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:04am
    young simmo, i also read that people living in caravan parks were going to be paying more, i didnt hear how much, just that the fee would increase,
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:04am
    young simmo, i also read that people living in caravan parks were going to be paying more, i didnt hear how much, just that the fee would increase,
    catsahoy
    2nd Dec 2013
    2:04am
    young simmo, i also read that people living in caravan parks were going to be paying more, i didnt hear how much, just that the fee would increase,
    Boof
    2nd Dec 2013
    7:11pm
    As an aged pensioner. I find it very hard to make ends meet. At the end of a fortnight, there's not much left over. Then we have to think about replacing worn out clothing, shoes and underclothes and the like. They have to put on hold sometimes. What about as beer? H'm. Just cut out some food. There is a steak in every schooner, they say?
    moorlands
    3rd Dec 2013
    1:15am
    Hi Boof, When I became mature enough to vote, I could never understand why my dear old penniless Mum was a staunch Conservative voter, was it in denial that we belonged to the "Lower Classes " and that those who were " Born to Rule" knew best, who knows? but today I still see people like my Mum and they vote!
    surfer
    4th Dec 2013
    7:43am
    Mr. Moorlands, It looks like your old mother had more clues than you have. Are you really mature enough to vote. You could have fooled me.
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2013
    4:27am
    urfer

    More inane comments for no purpose other than to 'try' and put down people… doooooo try something different… ho hum, so boring.

    Boof
    Abbott and his little henchmen, don't give a bugger about your hardships Boof, they are too busy filling their pockets and flogging off this country to foreign corporations.

    moorlands
    I have often seen that scenario of wanting to appear 'better' than others by voting for the wealthy elite party but then most 'small business' proprietors do the same, being under the ILLUSION that the Liberal Party will look after them. The Libs look after BIG business and don't give a rats **##!! about small business or ordinary people OR even the whole of Australia…. given their current moves to flog off Australia to FOREIGN corporations.
    Oh and don't worry about urfer, he thinks you are me, it seems (see his comments above). He/she is simply spewing forth liberal dogma and when he/she is unable to counteract your comment, he simply flings out inanities.
    Jurassicgeek
    4th Dec 2013
    8:02am
    We could easily be able to afford to pay pensioners a decent pension if we didnt "help" so many others. The aid we give to corrupt regimes would be first on my list of cutbacks. We need to start helping our own people first...If there is any money left over THEN we use it for other purposes..thats how the household budget works and thats how the fed budget should work...
    surfer
    4th Dec 2013
    1:21pm
    Yeah Geek, Have to agree, charity begins at home. Some funds sent away are to people that hate us. Will send it back in bullets one day.
    aquatrek
    5th Dec 2013
    12:09pm
    http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results
    Anonymous
    6th Dec 2013
    4:38am
    aquatrek
    That was interesting BUT you do realise that the index is of PERCEPTIONS of corruption. Of course, the western world has a perception that the communist & Eastern countries are corrupt and that the USA is clean and squeaky.
    A fallacy of course, the USA is rotten through and through because it is a CORPORATOCRASY (look it up on Wikipedia) and controlled by HUGE CORPORATIONS - with Corporations having a mantra of ever increasing PROFITS, at any cost… of course corruptions ensues.
    AlbertC
    4th Dec 2013
    4:42pm
    for those who don't know a draft has been put forward by the commissioner of taxation suggesting that the owners of said caravan and removable homes should be paying a gst on the rent they Collect from the people who pay said rent.if this draft was to be excepted by the government and put into law then the renters would have to pay 10% increase on there rent as the draft has left the door open for the owners to justify a rent increase. so for those that are interested get your pens out write to your local rep and display your disgust in such a move as this would a lot of people mainly pensioners who live in these parks out of pocket up to $40.00 OR MORE PER FORTNIGHT IT IS US NOT THE OWNERS WHO WILL LOSE THEY PASS IT ON. AND YES I AM A 70 YR OLD PENSIONER AND MY PARTNER IS 66 YRS WE ONLY LIVE WEEK TO WEEK NOTHING ELSE COMES INTO OUR POCKETS TO LIVE ON. HAVE A NICE DAY.
    Young Simmo
    4th Dec 2013
    5:11pm
    Yeh AlbertC, I have 13 years of Caravan Park receipts that typically read.
    Permanent ( Which is F/nightly rent) $230.00
    Utility ( Which is power) $40.30
    GST Included $15.65
    Total $285.95
    Now I am wondering if I have been paying GST, and should be able to get it back.
    Over 13 years that is about 11 Grand which would buy a couple of cartons.
    moorlands
    6th Dec 2013
    8:12pm
    Simmo I am your side, ask Tony, he will probably blame it on Kevin.
    AlbertC
    6th Dec 2013
    7:19pm
    yes young simmo i would say you have been paying gst ilegaly as far back as YR2000 PARKS WERE EXEMPT YOU SHOULD REMINDER YOUR OWNER S OF THE PARK YOU LIVE IN AS IT IS AT THIS STAGE ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO CHARGE GST THEY SHOULD REFUND THE GST FUNDS THEY HAVE TAKEN FROM YOU OR THEY WILL MOST LIKLY FIND THEM SELVES IN TROUBLE WIT THE TAX OFFICE AND THE LAW. HAVE A NICE DAY
    Jules
    10th Dec 2013
    8:08am
    The Sechretary Says..........well here comes 260..............why pay some analyst a small fortune to come up with these recommendations. Just build a robot and they wouldn't have to pay them anything; perhaps just a new battery and some oil now and then.............same result ! I will bet a penny to a pound none of the so called analysts tried living on a pension before coming up with these recommendations. Nor any of their family. We live on a Disability Pension and it's not a whole lot of fun. It's not much to ask to be able to afford to put meat on the table. If you're a 'meat and 3 veg' person, as many of us older Aussies are (it's the diet we grew up with), then you're out of luck. With a Sunday roast worth close to $20 (that's just the meat), it's a dim memory these days. Sometimes even a meat loaf is out of the question. You can't live on scrambled eggs forever Mr Analyst. Try it and see how you get on.