17th Jan 2013
Guns are out of control
Author: Kaye Fallick

Guns are big news at the moment. In the USA overnight, President Obama announced sweeping reforms to America’s gun laws. In New South Wales another person has been shot dead – the 135th since the beginning of last year – and an argument has erupted between the Prime Minister Julia Gillard and the NSW Police Minister Michael Gallacher over who is responsible for the high level of gun violence in that state.

Firstly, the USA. President Obama has announced his intention to introduce legislation which will include limits on high capacity magazines, a ban on new assault weapons, increased vigilance associated with background checks on gun purchases and stronger laws to prevent the trafficking of weapons in the USA. It is widely predicted he will have a battle on his hands with both the Republican Party members in Congress and the National Rifle Association to get this legislation through. He has also used his executive authority to sign in another 20-plus gun related laws. 

Locally, the death of yet another Sydney man has triggered a statement from the Prime Minister that she has requested the Minister for Home Affairs, Jason Clare, to look at ways these shootings might be reduced.

This comment has been described by Mr. Gallacher as hypocritical because the Federal Government is failing to prevent illegal gun importation. Ironically, in the same newspaper this morning, the Customs and Border Protection officers have claimed that ‘smarter screening’ procedures have resulted in a decrease in the importation of illegal weapons.

Keep up-to-date on the USA gun debate in The New York Times 

Read more about the local spat over who is responsible for shooting deaths in The Age 

And what customs says is happening with illegal gun importation 

 

Guns and roses

Guns N’ Roses is, of course, a highly successful American rock band, coincidentally touring Australia in 2013. But guns and roses, for me, have a deeper connection. I call it a no-brainer. The more guns people can access, the higher the likelihood of someone dying, and the need for roses. And tears of grief for the friends and loved ones of the person whose life has ended because someone pulled a trigger. If this sounds like an over-simplification of the matter, it’s because I think the matter should be much more simple. I simply don’t get the American people who cling to the belief that gun ownership has something to do with their constitutional rights. Why would ANYONE need a semi- automatic weapon? Why should the ownership of what is essentially a killing machine, have anything to do with your rights? American citizens pay a high price for the political power of the NRA. Most recently the massacre of innocent children and their dedicated teachers at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown was a chilling example of what can happen when a woman purchases guns as a ‘hobby’ and her mentally challenged son gets hold of them.

Obama’s legislation is a no-brainer and, as he has revealed, he has a painting by Grace, one of the Newtown victims, in his office, so it is to be hoped the image of this little girl holds him to his promise to ‘keep our children safe’.

As for Australia, research released on Sunday reveals that our gun ownership has risen back to pre-Port Arthur shooting levels. This is alarming. Today’s report from customs that more illegal guns are being detected as they enter the country is good news. But, according to the statistics, far too many people have lost their lives, in NSW in particular, over the past year. Unlike the USA, we have far stricter gun legislation. But that doesn’t mean we should become complacent and assume that our existing laws are sufficient to prevent horrifying massacres of innocent people. The Prime Minister is right to suggest we need to re-look at what can be done, at all levels of government. And the NSW Government would do well to stop point-scoring and start policing – citizens deserve nothing less.

STOP PRESS – as this blog is being written, another two people have been shot dead at a community college in Kentucky.

What do you think? Is it a no-brainer for Obama to bring in far tougher gun legislations?

And what about NSW? Is the Prime Minister right to look at every aspect associated with gun violence? Or is Michael Gallacher correct with her claims that her remarks are merely electioneering?





    COMMENTS

    To make a comment, please register or login
    Aloysius
    17th Jan 2013
    12:27pm
    Everything that Julia Gillard is doing is focused on getting reelected. Dozens of promises to score points but no funding.
    Rod63
    17th Jan 2013
    2:59pm
    Completely disagree (though I hesitated to respond as I think your inaccurate comment is largely meant just to "stir").
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    3:16pm
    bookmakers have Juliar as an outsider to win the election - anyone want to run one of those olde fashioned sweeps on here ? hahahahaha I will start with a fiver - you know - $5.00
    Aloysius
    17th Jan 2013
    8:19pm
    And every photo opportunity with an annual budget of $150 million for ALP spindoctors ensuring that every story has a Julia spin.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    12:28pm
    Its not 'guns' that are out of control - its the stupid ape species
    Nan Norma
    17th Jan 2013
    1:49pm
    good one!!!!
    student
    17th Jan 2013
    4:00pm
    the stupid ape species' as you call them (us??) are watching too much TV. It's the easy availability of getting a gun (legally or illegally) that is of concern. Why do people want a gun?? Why do they think they need a gun?? 'For protection' I hear you say... well you should only carry a gun if you intend to use it and if you are afraid (you need it for protection remember) then I don't want to be anywhere near you in your adrenalin induced state of mind :) Take away your gun and give you a water pistol and we could have tons of fun :) Without a gun you would be a much nicer person :) Nicer, more approachable,more social .. not so scarey

    17th Jan 2013
    12:37pm
    Obama has cojones as big as footballs, in his attempt to deal with Americans obssession with firearms. I fear he will be assassinated if he continues with this strong line on gun control.

    The firearms-lovers see any attempt at gun control as a personal attack upon their freedom, and will arm up further and start to attack Govt authorities that attend their properties.

    I believe we'll see an increase in U.S. domestic terrorism, as more McVeighs appear.

    The idiocy of the firearms lovers attitude is visible in their belief that any attempts at curbing gun numbers and illegal weapons, is an attempt to totally disarm them.

    While this attitude persists and is promoted by the NRA, there will be no improvement in the American out-of-control firearms situation.

    By far the most telling feature of the gun-nuts morally-bankrupt stance, is their use of their suckling babes in the promotion of firearms ownership.

    People who teach their 2 yr-olds to use firearms - and who use their young children to hold firearms-promotion placards in protests, should be charged with child abuse and child corruption.

    This is the most morally-reprehensible conduct I have ever witnessed, and is indicative of the moral bankruptcy of the gun-nuts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYqyq70b6BE
    student
    17th Jan 2013
    2:41pm
    I can not understand the mentality of the 'average' American. Despite the truck loads of research (from well recognised academics) proving there is a link between guns and violence, Americans will not willingly give up their guns. The gun-lovers use the excuse it is their right to carry a gun ... an automatic mass killing rifle? A gun is designed to kill. That is it's first purpose. Maybe if there was a law in America saying if you possess/carry a weapon that is designed to kill, then you may be charged with contemplating murder? We are seeing here in Sydney what happens when people will not discuss their problems ... people die.

    Aaron, I agree wholeheartedly with your views. Especially about children. A bit of trivia, but there has been a lot of children (adult children) killing their parents here in Australia (S.A and Tassy. come to mind) can you imagine what the toll maybe if Australians had the gun mentality of Americans??
    Rod63
    17th Jan 2013
    3:02pm
    Hear! Hear!
    student
    17th Jan 2013
    4:02pm
    cojones?? I can't find it in the dictionary. Sorry :)
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    4:14pm
    lazy student - cojones is Española for balls [testicles]
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    11:47am
    wow!! Thank you aquatrek, I have learned something new :)
    Multidisab
    17th Jan 2013
    12:39pm
    What bitter world we live in to put down the first idea and accuse!

    Eletion year or not, what is Australia copying from US friends, films and soaps?

    Perfect housekeeping, higher standard of living, and there's more, and it includes violence as well. Ice, the drug of course, originated in the USA, and is now world wide.

    Can we please learn to think for ourselves instead of joining the lazy mob spirit of condemnation?

    I think it is in all our interests that guns and drugs are much more closely associated by the underbelly of society that runs rackets and has territory disputes and needs laws not to worship the crims but to help the victims.

    And who else than our Julia has a pressuring ability to try and curb all this?

    Or is the old 'rum corps still running this country?

    Any opposition to drug and weapons reform is in my understanding a suspicious response. What has the Police to protect or defend?

    That's the real issue as I see it, we are not in the chambers of government where boarding school antics are the game of each session in Parliament.

    If we cannot respect each other in running the government, what example can the many-cultured Australians follow? |

    What does it mean today to be an Australian, as different from the 60's under Menzies, or 70's or today?
    savannahrose
    17th Jan 2013
    12:39pm
    I agree with Michael Gallacher ... it's just another empty thought balloon from Gillard - anything to seem to be concerned and actually doing something. The Federal Government is not responsible for State's Police. However the Federal Government is responsible for Customs, and as most of the illegal guns are pouring in from overseas, instead of trumpeting on about State matters why doesn't she instead have competent and uncorrupted Custom Officers. I understand it Customs budget was slashed, along with Defence and so many other vital areas. After the arrests of corrupt and criminal elements in Customs recently .. how about having every worker at overseas terminal's criminal history checked by AFP and State Police. At least that way she would be doing something other than coming up with this stunt. It's all to get her name in the headlines and look like she cares and in doing something, when in actual fact she's doing nothing at all.
    Bes
    17th Jan 2013
    1:21pm
    I totally agree! In the UK handguns are banned, but guess what? You can buy an unlicensed firearm in the back streets of Birmingham and Manchester!
    Fact or fiction? FACT! As related by an ex Tactical Response copper now serving in the WA police force!
    I can't think of any one thing which has been prohibited (as in prohibition) that has been successful throughout the world.
    I have a friend who lives in Arizona who actually does not own a firearm, but he has assured me that he could buy a gun from any car boot sale!
    The America's are awash with guns from the Canadian border, south through the US, Mexico and South America.
    America and Australia are totally different. The guns used by gang members in Australia are illegal. They are modern firearms illegally brought into the country along with drugs etc. I would imagine that the gangs are willing to sacrifice a drug bust or two for ulterior motives?
    Do I use a gun? Along with my wife, we are both in our mid 60's, the answer is yes. The difference between America and here in Australia we did not and could not purchase our firearms without being known by the police.
    They know who we are, where we are, what we look like, what type and serial number of firearm we own, which compulsory club we belong to and of course we all have to be members of the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia.
    Military type firearms are not allowed.
    Suicides? The use of railways far outweigh gun deaths.
    The local hold up's with guns? Replica firearms can be purchased over the counter and one would have to be extremely brave or experienced to spot the difference in a surprise situation. Some fire blanks!
    We have open borders with illegal people swarming to Australia keeping our small inferior Customs and Navy busy. Now.........I wonder where the guns come from??
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    1:24pm
    No matter what the political leanings of the PM of the day, their ideas on gun control are always limited to simplistic ideas. Doesn't matter whether it's Labor or Liberal.

    Far better to target those who seek to carry illegal weapons. Bring in a law that allows police to charge people carrying illegal firearms with premeditated, attempted murder - and which then jails those people for a minimum of 15 yrs.

    After all, if you're carrying an illegal firearm, particularly a handgun - you have a specific plan to kill people - and if that isn't premeditated murder, then I don't know what is.

    The "gun-culture" of various groups and ethnicities, that has been transported here from other countries (including America) needs to be educated out of them.

    Training up children to see and acknowledge that there is no "need" for a firearm - to settle disputes - or for personal protection - and that killing everything that moves is a great feeling, will go a long way to eliminate the demand for, and the regular use of firearms to settle marital, financial, and business disputes.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    1:45pm
    @Bes: pls swap your guns for bows and take up a sport that gets you out into the fresh air - guns are not needed in a peaceful society that has humane laws and regulations so that all citizens can live without fear and in peace. Oh well, probably another 1,000 years to go if the species last that long.
    student
    17th Jan 2013
    2:51pm
    savannahrose, I am sick of people saying PM Gillard only has 'thought bubbles'. Have you forgotten the carbon tax?? :)
    I hope guns hold a place of priority in her mind. I think this will be one 'thought bubble' that comes to fruition.
    Rod63
    17th Jan 2013
    3:08pm
    Student, that's typical of the irrational PM haters.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    12:40pm
    Besides, indiscriminate slaughter is ubiquitously pandemic acrss the planet and the biggest arms sellers are the worlds biggest economic powers - Sweden, Russia, China etc etc etc. Diana, rest her soul, started a movement to prohibit the selling of mines and where has that got to - no where in a global sense. Stop the trading in arms and then stop the issuing of licences to the public. I have started a crossbow factory.
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    1:13pm
    You've got admit, you'd be hard-pressed to slaughter 20 schoolkids in less than 20 seconds, even with your best model of crossbow!
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    1:37pm
    I am busy designing a multi bolt action type that carries an anti-personnel device a bit like the new USA rifle that has a special bullet that only explodes and spreads shrapnel in the vicinity of the enemies cranium. It will be issued as a DIY kit through Bunnings.
    student
    17th Jan 2013
    2:59pm
    OMG!! The mind boggles :) Will your crossbow fit into a woman's wallet (not handbag as some of them are HUGE!!!) Will it have other uses ... ummm, maybe a miniature harp!! What about getting through security at the airport?? A cheese slicer??
    As for the DIY one, can I load it with flower petals?? Maybe even a calm-you-down foam (not for you aqua, but for the intended victim) Have you thought of a name yet?? Maybe the Love-gun :)
    Rod63
    17th Jan 2013
    3:10pm
    And the biggie: what colours will it come in?
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    3:13pm
    sick buggers - I am serious today but then tomorrow .................
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    5:34pm
    Aquatrek, with your post on the weapon you are designing I find it hard to consider you are being serious!
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:18pm
    you are as thick as 2 [thats two] bricks angel Michael
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    11:55am
    aquatrek, what is the purpose of your WMD??

    "...special bullet that only explodes and spreads shrapnel in the vicinity of the enemies cranium ... " is the bullet going to be technically savvy so it knows brain tissue from body flesh?? I'm with Michael, I think you have good comic material. I'm sure the Patents Office will love your application. Maybe I'm a 3 bricks thick person :)
    Pass the Ductape
    17th Jan 2013
    1:42pm
    Makes you wonder just how stupid NRAA members, and Americans in general can get doesn't it?
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    3:43pm
    Ductape - The rampant American gun-nuts that continually screech about their "freedoms" and "rights" being infringed by a democratically-elected Govt introducing firearms control measures - are too dumb to even understand the precise meaning of the word "Amendment", in the 2nd Amendment to their Constitution.

    I've even had gun-nuts trying to tell me the American "right" to a firearm was given to them by their Creator!
    These people truly suffer from paranoia and warped logic, that defies explanation?

    Maybe they are really angry because they aren't allowed to own nukes & grenade launchers? - even though they can legally own machine guns made before 1986!

    Talk about the inmates running the asylum! What does a civilian living in a civil society need with a machine gun? A military-grade weapon designed to kill as many people as fast as possible!
    Sapper
    17th Jan 2013
    2:13pm
    The numbers of guns in Australia may be up to thr pre Howard legislation, but the types of guns have changed. Australians are no longer to legally own semi-automatic or pump action guns or rifles. Around us, most murders now seem to carried out by people using knives. Police control of licenced firearms is tight - my rifles have been inspected and their locked container has been inspected.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    2:22pm
    why in the hell do you have rifles - are you being invaded by hordes of killer wallabies or green bug eyed monsters from Mars or are you asiaphobic - get a life
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    5:19pm
    Aquatrek, some people play golf some people hockey or football and some folk choose to shoot, as a hobby. Rifle, Gun and Pistol Clubs cater for these people. I do not own any firearms but should point out that I see no reason to lump all these people in with crooks, baddies or similar people who carry illegal firearms.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    5:27pm
    oh dear - lets extrapolate your argument out a bit - nobody ever mass mudered anyone by playing football or hockey !! I DID NOT LUMP anyone with anyone - why put words down that you perpetrate to be mine - the question that I raise is why have guns at all ?????????????????? the longer that society and its individuals harbour guns at all allows them [THE GUNS] to stay as part of society. The excuse that its a hobby isnt worth the effort that went into the thought.
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    5:42pm
    Very well Aquatrek, lets refer to these hobbies as Olympic Sports. I should point out I did not accuse YOU of 'lumping' and I'm afraid you are getting just a little irrational!
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    5:48pm
    dearest Michael: you specifically addressed the comments to moi - are you just tired after a long days blogging, missed your grandpa nap, havent reached your 'beer o'clock' just yet hehe
    unicorn
    17th Jan 2013
    2:39pm
    We used to own 2 rifles when we lived on acreage in the country then the laws were changed & we moved to a suburban house& have no use for the rifles. One is long gone as I did not have any reason to keep it the pther came in handy when my husband used to often be away at night for work & oubng hoons used to come onto our property & frighten me so I often shor over the tops of their cars & laughed myself silly when the would turn their cars around on our driveway as fast as they could move. This usually took about a six or seven point turn as it was only wide enough for one car to travel in comfort.
    Pass the Ductape
    18th Jan 2013
    10:24am
    unicorn - while your action may, in a sense, seem rational to you, it does seem a bit extreme - considering you said you'd moved into suburbia. Clint Eastwood may have got away with threatening a group of teenagers in his movie, but in reality, you walk along a very dangerous path by following this example.

    What do you think would have happened had you accidentally shot one of the neighbours - or indeed - ended up shooting one of the 'hoons, as you say?

    This is exactly why our government decided to make it more difficult for people to obtain a gun! By admitting to your actions, you have only added weight to the argument that if a gun were available, then it's quite easy for a normal law abiding citizen to become a criminal. You did after all, fire a weapon in an attempt to threaten another person.
    Sylvia
    17th Jan 2013
    3:02pm
    Maybe when the criminal element is controlled in society, there will be no need for guns, many people would have a gun for protection, this is the sad truth so many are not feeling secure in their own homes, people who are carrying guns for no legitimate reason should be given stiff mandatory sentences.
    student
    17th Jan 2013
    3:09pm
    My late husband used to be away for long periods of time and wanted me to have a pistol for safety reasons.( we lived at Spit Junction and later moved to the Mountains) I wouldn't think of it. Guns are for killing and I didn't want to kill or be killed. I've lived in the Mountains for over 40 years and the only problem I have ever had was a possum that I thought was a man grunting!! I rang the police and they reassured me I was safe and it was only a possum. Can you imagine the furor if I had had a gun and fired it??
    Bes
    17th Jan 2013
    3:41pm
    Well we all seem to be fired up about the problems of another country and turning it into a perceived hypothetical threat here in Australia! No mention of the everyday stabbings, home invasions, drunken violent party's, car thefts, heads in bags washed up, over 1000 road deaths per year, Aussie soldiers being killed overseas, open borders etc etc etc.
    Oh hold on! We all have the RIGHT to drive. We all have the RIGHT to drink alcohol. We all agree that the police NOT be allowed to search us on suspicion, we have RIGHTS. We all accept that it is our responsibility to make our homes into a prison with little RIGHT to defend ourselves using force. (as in bats etc) BUT! New York and it's ZERO TOLERANCE laws make it safer than Perth 24/7.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    3:55pm
    The topic is a wide open slather of politics and gun laws in USA, Oz and NSW. So I think that your 1st sentence is a bit hysterical. Guns in Oz have apparently gone back to prior the 'amnesty - hand them in' levels. So it is quite rational to be socially alarmed and to question what the politicians are doing about it. Or do we wait for another Port Authur to get off our arses again.
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    3:59pm
    Bes - We have every right to decry AMERICAN gun-nuts repeated calls to arm everyone - because their warped logic and their violent culture, penetrate every section of Australian society, every hour of every day!

    We even have Australian gun-nuts repeating NRA mantra and propaganda, word-for-word - claiming that any Australian PM or politician who introduces more gun control laws is taking away their "freedoms" and "rights"!!

    Give me a break! There are NO "unassailable rights" enshrined in our Constitution!
    Our Constitution was carefully structured by some wise politicians and judges between 1895 and 1900 - AFTER they examined both the American Constitution and British Common Law.

    Our Constitution purposely contains no enshrined rights, as these learned men saw what had happened in America with their faulty Constitution and Amendments, with these "unalienable" rights.

    Our Constitution is a living document that can be amended and modified with general democratic consent, to match the conditions or questions that need to be addressed, that arise at any future time or events.

    Our Constitutional laws can be challenged and examined at any time by anyone who wants to mount a challenge. This is the best way, and the reason we have such a peace-loving and civil society in Australia.

    I don't want to see the morally bankrupt ideas and principles behind the NRA and American gun-nuts, become a major force in our Australian society!
    Pass the Ductape
    18th Jan 2013
    10:30am
    I have to agee totally with Aaron on this Bes!
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    12:22pm
    Yay for Aaron Ductape! We, as a people do have the right to change our Constitution, however, changes very seldom get a majority vote from the people. Referendums usually fail. We have a licensing system for guns etc, and (in my opinion) the majority of people do not have a legitimate reason for needing a gun. Wanting and needing are two different things. I am a widow and live alone and do not need a gun. I have a dog that would die to save me. If a person belongs to a Gun Club (as a participating sports person) then I feel the guns should be stored IN the Clubhouse or designated are. Guns for business (escorting money to and from a bank or business) again, the guns should be stored in a designated place NOT in a person's home. If you want a gun just for you can play with it ... not on. I see no need for guns to be freely available in society.
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    12:25pm
    ooooops, sorry, guns are needed in rural ares .... 'roo shooting, and feral dogs etc ...
    Pass the Ductape
    21st Jan 2013
    10:34am
    Too true - a considered and sensible approach to the problem of gun ownership 'student'. Unfortunately, you’ll never convince the Gun Lobby proponents of this.
    Sapper
    17th Jan 2013
    4:02pm
    Dear Aquatrek,
    I live in the country and have a reasonable need for my firearms. I am not asiaphobic - saja bicara bahasa Indonesia dan bahasa Malaysia. Can you?
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    4:10pm
    nope - apologies - I pressed send and THEN thought what if Sapper is rural - but too late as those fingers can be quite swift at times [less so nowadays] - maaf
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    5:30pm
    but still - couldnt you use a crossbow instead ?
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    8:18pm
    Crossbows are illegal-------------------------
    Pass the Ductape
    18th Jan 2013
    10:51am
    Shooting anything with an arrow is, in my opinion, a horrible way to go about killing anything - no matter wha's used to propel it. Far better to use a gun in most circumstances. The hitting power of a bullet generally results in a quick kill to an animal, even though it may not be in the 'immediate kill' zone.

    However with a bow - unless the marksman is an expert, very few kills are instant or quick. Generally, the way an animal dies after being shot with an arrow, is by running through the bush/scrub for some considerable time, whilst the arrow shaft is being knocked back and forth on branches etc, causing significant trauma to the wound and such loss of blood, that the animal eventually dies from shock and in extreme pain.
    wally
    17th Jan 2013
    5:16pm
    As fr as I can tell, Australia does not produce guns, so the guns come from overseas, legally and illegally. Customs cannot inspect every container landed at our ports, yet the current government has cut funding to customs at a tome when more spending to expand customs protection to increase confiscation of drugs and guns being smuggled into the coutry. So it is a bit rich for the Prime Minister to claim Sydney's shootings are a local problem after cutting customs funding. Maybe if Labor spent less money on Spin Doctors (to help fool the public and the voters into thinking we are being governed sensibly) and more on customs and other essential services, we might have fewer problems in society.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    5:33pm
    I agree but it wont happen because the Ranga is preoccupied with 'mysoginy' and the AWU fraud scandal. She is likely to be burnt at the proverbial stake as the outcome of the Vic police enquiry gathers pace.
    wally
    17th Jan 2013
    5:17pm
    Pls excuse the spell-checker malfunctions in above post.
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    5:31pm
    Do people honestly think if all the legally owned firearms are confiscated and destroyed nobody will get shot.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    5:34pm
    only by you
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    5:47pm
    Aquatrek------you can do better than that----8-)
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    6:16pm
    so can you - doesnt it stand to reason and common sense that the thingamajigs [GUNS] if not left lying around the bloody countryside [including suburbia] then there will be much less opportunity for the bloody things to go BOOM and kill innocent persons and the odd hunting mate or three [dogs dont count].

    I have the solution !!!!!!!! - only issue a gun licence to someone IF THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO ACTUALLY KILL SOMEONE OR MANY SOMEONES. There would be a government fee [pistols the cheapest all the way up to gattling guns - the dearest]. See - if we all work collectively together a brainiac [me] will come up with the 'near' perfect solution. Thats why the species has progressed so darn far from its animal bretheren and its called evolution hahaha
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    6:19pm
    oohh bugger - I forgot about the greenies and animal welfare and endangered species [humans] and halal and doomsday is coming anyway and ............
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    6:29pm
    Michael - Once again, you're trotting out a classic NRA and gun-lovers argument.
    No-one is talking about "confiscating all legally-owned firearms". That is classic NRA propaganda.
    What all sensible people (and the President of the USA) are talking about, is restrictions on firearms numbers &types, and better checks on people who apply for firearms licences.

    There has to be a demonstrated NEED for a firearm before it is issued. When asked about the firearms need, the old answer of, "I just want a big gun to shoot up and kill things", is the type of thing that needs control and restrictions.

    We already have 1000's of roadsigns, water tanks, domestic animals, and many other items, shot up by imbeciles who should never have been given possession of a firearm or a licence to shoot.

    Believe me, I have personal knowledge of at least 2 Shires who now refuse to replace shot-up road signs, thanks to imbeciles with legal rifles. It was costing the Shires a fortune annually to replace those signs.

    I have plenty of rural friends who can relate stories of shot-up water tanks, pipelines, stock, and other farm items. All done by legal "licenced" shooters.

    It's well known that a reduction in firearm numbers relates directly to reduced domestic violence deaths, accidental firearms deaths, and suicides.
    After the gun buyback, "suicide by firearm" death rates dropped by a staggering % - around 60%.

    No-one has a desire to completely disarm every civilian in the nation - despite what the NRA or the shooting clubs tell you.
    Target shooting is acceptable to most people as a recreational sport - provided gun owners are vetted, receive training in weapon safety and handling, and the weapons are kept secure.

    Farmers, police and security will always need firearms, no-one wants to deny them to those people.
    But firearms controls, and keeping firearms numbers to a bare minimum requirement, is a good recipe to ensure we have minimal firearms deaths - whether accidental or on purpose.

    No, we'll never stop people killing each other - but we can assist a great deal with proper and sensible firearms laws and controls, and keeping firearms numbers to a minimum.
    As you must agree, no-one has any NEED for 5 or 6 firearms - and if you hunt, you most certainly don't need a semi-automatic to bring down wildlife.
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    7:14pm
    Aaron, nor was I talking of actually confiscating guns I was asking do people think it would cure the problem. I would not agree that no-one has a need of five or six guns . Pistol club members who shoot in various matches do require different pislols as no weapon will suit all. I will agree no-one needs automatic or semi-automatic weapons for wildlife. As you say control and education are the critical needs.
    Nice to hear a rational post as opposed to paranoia. I will repeat I do not own any firearms but have no objection to others with legal reason.
    Sapper
    17th Jan 2013
    6:46pm
    Hunters are not allowed to have semi automatics in Australia, Aaron. Try this:
    Have an air rifle to teach your kids to shoot properly, and to teach them proper firearms safety precautions.
    Have a .22 to shoot feral cats on your property, so they don't eat native birds and other native wildlife.
    Have a .410 shotgun so your wife can shoot the Tiger Snake that is just outside your door when your kids are small and you are not at home.
    Have a .22 Hornet to shoot the foxes that are killing your new born lambs.
    Have a .270 to shoot the feral pigs that are killing your lambs and calves
    while those young animals are vulnerable.
    If you don't live in the country, you don't really understand what we country people are talking about.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    7:13pm
    then its obvious that given the range of issues that you face [why dont you publish this more broadly] and as you say us city slickers wouldnt have a clue then you have very valid reasons for such an 'aresenal' ? how about hand grenades or some sarin gas cannisters for good measure instead of some decent gurad dogs like pit bulls - sorry got carried away there a bit - so what is the magic answer Sapper ?
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    7:50pm
    Sapper, I spent all my working life in the country, owned a .22 rifle and a DB shotgun, and regularly went on vermin shoots (fox-shooting nearly every night in lambing season).
    My brother was a bigger gun-nut with a .22 magnum, a '94 model Winchester .44 LA repeater and a .243.

    I'm also a Vietnam Vet and a sapper, with military weapons training and a familiarity with the SLR and the M60 MG. So don't give me any crap about, "I don't really understand what I'm talking about".

    As a country family we were always taught proper weapons respect and proper handling techniques. Regardless, we still had a number of accidental discharges that were potentially fatal.
    The brothers .44 was deadly, he purchased it from a gun-nut who had filed the sear so it had a hair trigger. The brother had 3 AD's with that rifle, it was so deadly, it should have been returned to original condition.

    I now live in the city and no longer have no need, nor any desire, to own a firearm.
    There are still plenty of people living in the country who also have no need of a firearm. And I still don't see a need for 4 firearms for one person.
    Pass the Ductape
    22nd Jan 2013
    7:37am
    I would have thought that the 410 would have been sufficent sapper - except perhaps for the pigs. Having said that, you give the impression that you are over-run with the animals you describe and whilst I have no doubt you do have a few problems now and again, I believe your argument is based more likely on a desire to justify your craving to own several types of firearms, when perhaps only two would suffice.
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    7:21pm
    Hand-grenades, sarin gas cannisters----------------dear, oh dear!
    Sapper
    17th Jan 2013
    7:49pm
    Why would we need those things, Aquatrek?
    Are you just getting just a little hysterical?
    We wouldn't have the dogs you specify, and our working dogs are tied up at night. We have had many sheep killed by none farming neighbours who have the dogs you specify - slightly misspelt, perhaps?
    Ever seen a sheep with its guts hanging out due to a raid by a neighbour's Pit Bull Terrior?
    I have. Many sheep, not just one.
    Life isn't quite as simple as people who don't live the actual life they criticise believe.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:05pm
    so what is the answer - our society has many many many issues with violence - much drug generated [includes booze] racism, etc but we are discussing firearms - those owned by the population whether suburban [madness] and/or rural [justify them]. How many Pit Bulls have you shot for exmple. How many foxes - is there a plague - should pit bulls be destroyed [all of them] etc etc etc

    Solutions - not endless mindless chit chat about who has the biggest gun or the largest arsenal. Guns perpetrated as the 'only' solution is not meaningful.
    Bes
    17th Jan 2013
    8:06pm
    Michael, if you check back through this debate, just note the vicious descriptions used by aquatrek. This is an example of someones mind at work and who professes to own or promotes the use of cross bows and thinks themselves to be normal.
    Quotes of the Day:
    1.I am busy designing a multi bolt action type that carries an anti-personnel device a bit like the new USA rifle that has a special bullet that only explodes and spreads shrapnel in the vicinity of the enemies cranium.
    2.Grenades or some sarin gas cannisters
    3.For the bloody things to go BOOM and kill innocent persons and the odd hunting mate or three
    4.hordes of killer wallabies or green bug eyed monsters from Mars
    5.I have the solution !!!!!!!! - only issue a gun licence to someone IF THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO ACTUALLY KILL SOMEONE OR MANY SOMEONES. There would be a government fee [pistols the cheapest all the way up to gattling guns - the dearest]. See - if we all work collectively together a brainiac [me] will come up with the 'near' perfect solution. Thats why the species has progressed so darn far from its animal bretheren and its called evolution
    With rhetoric like this I see a new leader in their own mind. Maybe even a God??
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    8:22pm
    Thank heavens somebody else can see the irrational thinking of this person, but a God. I think not!
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:08pm
    Sorrily you are an idiot Bes. Its called 'satire' but maybe you wouldnt know it if it bit you on the bum. Growup. In the meantime instead of 'examining' my discourse and giving it some 'classification' try turning your mind to a solution to the gun problem. Alas that is probably beyond your intelligence limits.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:13pm
    angel Micheal : just go away flapping your wings - we have had this interjection approach of yours before and nary one intelligent bit of input on a topic ever either
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:35pm
    read READ and understand Aarons replies - instead of 'picky picky picky' petty picking. What useless bloggers U 2 are.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:56pm
    The God reference is quite appropriate but I cant discuss that with mere mortals on here. I am still trying to figure out which type of God is the best. The One, many, a few to get by with from day to day so that there is not so much bowing [the knees], keening [all that ear splitting wailing], offerings [how much can a God consume for Gods sake], ritual [dogma dogma dogma], no response and shit still happens !! all so confusing really.
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    12:47pm
    aqua ... I also have trouble sorting the irrational from the "logical" With the risk of awakening your wrath/satire, I am not in the same time warp as you. I am but a mere woman and you confuse me.
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    9:18pm
    I don't think satire is the answer and I don't think denigration is the answer too. I don't think being a smart**se is the answer either. And Aquatek, this time, the comment is definitely meant for you!
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:25pm
    I am sending you your own personal Mark I crossbow kit so that you may silently kill. If you sign up then a practice handgrenade and a small phial of saracin gas will be also sent via Australia Post. Then you can practice at running amok and finishing off as many of your fellow citizens as possible. Being an angel no harm will come.
    Michael
    18th Jan 2013
    6:08pm
    There you go again---proving my point!
    Huskie
    17th Jan 2013
    9:24pm
    I am fed up with the Party Political rantings contained in some of these posts. It is not a political problem it is a social one.

    I am on the side of Sapper. I too live in the country and have a wild dog, feral pig, feral deer problem not to mention the rabbits (I eat the rabbits that I kill). The problem is that guns do not kill people - people kill people with guns or anything else they can get hold of at the time. I see no need for military style assault weapons. A firearm can be an asset and assistance.
    The NSW Firearms training course makes a distinction between "weapons" and "firearms"
    A weapon is there to kill or injure another person, a firearm is there for use against non-humans. Having said the above I also believe that the Police should be dis-armed. If you arm the police you arm the criminals. Only specially trained and qualified police officers should be allowed to use firearms and only then under strictly defined conditions. My brother served in the UK Metropolitan Police and had the S*** beaten out of him with pickaxe handles so the problem is not just guns it is a social problem. We are becoming a "me" society.
    I want it, it is mine by right and I can get it anyway I want by any means!
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    9:27pm
    why arent there government programs to eliminate the feral pests ?
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    12:52pm
    there are aqua. BUT, feral cats and dogs are the fault of irresponsible people ... baiting (besides being inhumane) is deadly to other animals too so that defeats the purpose. I don't know how The Pill for kangaroos went, if it was successful, but I doubt it. People are a real problem ... and your invention is not the answer either :)
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    7:55am
    @ student: my 'invention' is a metaphor for 'guns'. I am a satirical bastard in that plain common everyday chit chat annoys me immensely because people do not get a sense of passion nor commitment if the language used is mediocre. As one is not allowed to use supposed 'f..l' language even if the language is commonplace nor personalize remarks [ha some get away with it while others dont] let alone 'troll' a blog I find that my satirical and at times sarcastic discourse satisfies me immensely. Some even like the 'humour' whereas others don't. Different strokes for different folks. So apologies if I go a bit 'out there' and confuse you.

    Its a bit like your comment above - I was asking Huskie about feral programs then you interject with acknowledgement of the issue then start with the concept that people are to blame. Well, we all know that - people are to blame for everything that is being debated here - its a forum for discussion = debate about the violence perpetrated by lack of gun control. NSW govt have recently permitted amateur shooters to cull feral animals in national parks where previously it was a restricted culling permit. Gun control - ha my arse.
    toot2000
    17th Jan 2013
    9:49pm
    We have a head start on the Americans because we don’t have a crazy Second Amendment that gives citizens the right to bear arms. But guns in Sydney are out of control and drive-by shootings happen all the time. The scary thing is the police are powerless to stop it.
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    10:20pm
    toot2000 - You're talking about an imported group of Middle Eastern people with a violent culture, and a gun culture - who bypassed Immigration laws that would have normally prevented their entry into Australia.
    All Immigrants have always had to have their criminal backgrounds and criminal records checked - but none of these people did, because Malcolm Fraser personally intervened, and insisted that they be admitted without background criminal checks.

    Thanks to that imbecile Fraser - who deemed that the admission of refugees from a war was more important than checking the backgrounds of these people - they were admitted with undue haste, and promptly started up again in their criminal ways in the SW Sydney suburbs.

    The solution is simple. Cancel the citizenship of any Middle Easterner who has not revealed their criminal history in the M.E., and deport them.
    In fact, I would deport any Middle Easterner who continually indulged in criminal behaviour, as being a habitual criminal, and an undesirable citizen of Australia.

    These people are so permanently bent, they can't lie straight in bed, and we are better off without them.
    Let it be known worldwide that we will promptly make imported criminals "persona non grata", and deport them as soon as they show a permanent criminal bent - and we will soon have a return to a more peaceful society.
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    10:24pm
    so why not another amnesty - and do it quick like now - lets not wait - its all about education and enforcing principals to better life on the planet - otherwise we all just give up and let whatever run its course - regardless of the human cost and suffering [families] - nice to have your rational on here toot2000
    toot2000
    17th Jan 2013
    10:41pm
    You know it Aaron and I know it, but neither party would ever have the courage to deport them - I think they worry about our reputation in the eyes of the world. I read somewhere that in one tough jail in the UK, the Muslims are the most feared not only by inmates, but by the warders too. They are on top of the pecking order.
    Pass the Ductape
    18th Jan 2013
    11:09am
    Aaron for PM!
    student
    21st Jan 2013
    8:59am
    I agree about the Middle Eastern culture, but we are stereotyping Middle Easterners as Muslims.? I am aware that here in Australia, it is people from a Middle Eastern back ground that are in the news associated with gun violence and not Americans. Also, I thought the backgro89n d check of asylum seekers was for two reasons:
    1. To verify the validity of the persecution in their own country
    and
    2. To check if the asylum seeker was of good character.

    This is not a debate on asylum seekers so the re is no need to answer this post.
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    10:15pm
    Here you go, Aquatrec Your idea,hehehe
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    10:27pm
    whats that - a miracle type trick ? silent flapping of the wings ? hark I hear an angel sing - squark !!!!!
    clay
    17th Jan 2013
    10:32pm
    It may have been said in these many posts but I could not read them all so I will say it anyway

    Guns do not kill people .....people kill people ......I know it ......and you know it.......and Gillard knows it ......and Obama knows it ......and the American people have a 2nd amendment law that will not be taken away or watered down

    What ever the outcome of Obama's attempt to change or improve the situation is to be comended but you need to realise that he might just be pushing crap against the wind

    I do not imagine that we here in Australia will be challenged by any new law that is introduced in America but you must also agree that ......whilst some people play golf other people shoot guns and so they should if they want to
    Anonymous
    17th Jan 2013
    11:14pm
    Clay - Yes, you're right - you didn't read any of the posts, did you?
    And you're the one pushing crap into the wind, because you're repeating word-for-word, the NRA mantra, that the majority of people can now see is pure, unadulterated BS, perpetrated by firearms manufacturers!

    Just imagine if Nancy Lanza had spent the tens of thousands of dollars she spent on military grade firearms, ammunition and firearms training - on mental health care for her nutter of a son, instead??
    She might still be alive today, instead of having her brains splattered over her bed-head? - by her very own, much adored, assault rifle!

    The 2nd Amendment is not some commandment brought down on stone tablets from Mt Sinai by Moses - it was a statement made in 1791 by men who had no conception of what the 21st Century social conditions and weapons advancement could even look like.

    Accordingly, there is no reason why it cannot be scrapped, as it is totally irrelevant to the 21st Century, and to the 300 million firearms on the loose in America.

    American firearms lovers claim to worship God - but they have only one God - the Gun God. Why, they even take their Gun-God along to their Bible-God churches!

    I wonder what Jesus Christ would say? Oh hang on, he was the bloke who always wore a semi-automatic, wasn't he? - and who told his followers to "verily, blow away any bastard who threatens you!"
    Pass the Ductape
    18th Jan 2013
    11:19am
    Love it Aaron! I just love it! You have such a way of explaining the truth of it all. And thanks heavens the silent majority are getting on board and finally having a say.

    The bodies representing Gun Control in Australia also need to ramp up their efforts a lot more as well.
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    1:04pm
    People kill people?? Yes, I agree BUT they can't shoot another person without a gun. Would you be afraid of me if I pointed my finger at you and said 'Bang'?? Would you fall down dead?? But if I have a gun in my hand .. beware. The gun may discharge not my finger.
    Michael
    20th Jan 2013
    5:04pm
    Student, beware---it's always the "unloaded finger that kills! 8-)
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    8:00am
    @ Michael: So you think that that is funny do you Angel Michael - its mentally sick as we are 'discussing' the indiscriminate slaughter of children - the very reason that the USA government in power are attempting to tighten gun control instead of giving them away at gun supermarkets without even background checks.
    Michael
    17th Jan 2013
    10:42pm
    Yes, it was mentioned, but nice to hear from someone with the same belief !
    aquatrek
    17th Jan 2013
    10:54pm
    aahhhh - I see that the topic [GUNS] is well beyond your reach - a pretty pathetic angel indeed - reminds me of some others that havent been around for eons either
    Bes
    18th Jan 2013
    12:07am
    aquatrek, Your message reads, ban guns and stop the killing?
    Then we stop making knives?
    Smash the distilleries and brewery's? (or has that been tried?)
    Stop manufacturing cigarettes? (I've taken smokers to oncology and they still smoke!)
    Stop manufacturing cars, if we ALL gave up driving there would be no road toll. Or is over 1000 deaths EVERY year acceptable?
    Is that the same kind of message you are trying to get across about guns?
    I'll give up my license, will you?
    aquatrek
    18th Jan 2013
    7:58am
    I dont have a licence, never have had one and never will. I had an air rifle when a teenager and accidentally shot a mate. From that point on I realised that guns are indeed deadly. I also went on that Daniel Boone inspired slaughter of small animals and now almost cry at what I did.

    The mindset [yours] that I 'must have a gun' is what myself and others are on about. You might change your mindset if it was one of your children slaughtered in a school or mall massacre. Just as Obama is stating for the thousandth time - a law abiding peaceful society does not need high powered assault arms with multiple round clips in each and every home. Of course if the society is permanently unstable and persecutes their own populace as in Syria then thats a different story. Then the arming of the public may be justified and that scenario is being played out right now as I type.

    So your argument that humans get killed by other means is pathetic to say the least. The topic is gun laws. While guns are available in society they will be used to kill innocent people.
    Aloysius
    18th Jan 2013
    8:31am
    The Federal Government's role is to provide a robust customs inspection service to minimise gun importation. It is failing in this role and needs to address it. Guns and police are State matters and the Federal government should facilitate a COAG discussion to get a common approach to gun control. This should include a proper regulatory system where those who need guns are licensed, guns registered and stored in proper security with major penalties for breaches. Clearly, there is no place for assault weapons in the community at large. Sporting guns are best kept at sporting clubs where proper security can be installed. The USA needs to get real about gun control or it will stay in the headlines for all the wrong reasons.
    Aloysius
    18th Jan 2013
    11:00am
    A quote on a lighter (warped) note: "I like going to the park and watching the children run and jump around, because you see, they don't know I'm using blanks." - Emo Philips
    aquatrek
    18th Jan 2013
    10:40pm
    settle settle there Aloysius - screwing with their feeble minds does somewhat upset the beast within them - who said that before - not I said the doormouse to the cricket
    Bes
    18th Jan 2013
    11:23am
    Sorry aquatrek but you misunderstood my question.
    Using your formula of Prohibition of guns, I applied it to the annual - over 1000 road deaths that seem to be acceptable and my question was, would you hand in YOUR license and cease driving in order to stop the carnage?
    Still trying to work YOUR mindset out though? Let me try again.
    So in your mind it's OK to arm the populace with military GUNS and with no training (in the real sense like you with your airgun) no ID and NO background checks, to go out and KILL the other half of the populace because You don't agree with their mindset? As in Syria of which YOU made mention.
    And then, when the killing has stopped, I suppose they all go home, WITH THE GUNS (just in case , in your mindset, some of the bad guys have survived and they may be needed again) and Syria becomes another America awash with military weapons?
    Democracy with GUNS not elections, is that what you mean?
    Still trying to come to terms with your new cross bow though?
    aquatrek
    18th Jan 2013
    10:44pm
    Its not that I dont understand 'your' question. I would give up if I was you because it is beyond your capacity to rationalize the issue. Just keep your guns and the mindset that convinces you that you must have them. And I hope that one day that you will get to use your guns otherwise you will have wasted your time in keeping them.
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    1:18pm
    Bes, my answer would be 'No'. I need a vehicle, I do not need a gun. My vehicle is a means of transport and I obey the rules.but rules and laws are only there for the people who want to obey them. There is a saying "Look at the laws of a country and you see the people" ..
    I rest my case.
    toot2000
    18th Jan 2013
    1:00pm
    Guns are essential on farms. There have been hundreds of sheep burnt in the recent bushfires and suffered in terrible agony until the farmer could reach them and put them out of their misery.
    aquatrek
    18th Jan 2013
    10:50pm
    why not a quick injection via the nostrils of an aerosol born agent that targets only sheep and euthanizes efficiently ? dont tell me that that is not possible either. In abbattoirs they use 'stun guns' to the head. Its the 'explosive guns are the ONLY answer' that gets me riled.
    clay
    18th Jan 2013
    1:20pm
    Aaron.said

    Clay - Yes, you're right - you didn't read any of the posts, did you?
    And you're the one pushing crap into the wind, because you're repeating word-for-word, the NRA mantra, that the majority of people can now see is pure, unadulterated BS, perpetrated by firearms manufacturers!

    Just imagine if Nancy Lanza had spent the tens of thousands of dollars she spent on military grade firearms, ammunition and firearms training - on mental health care for her nutter of a son, instead??
    She might still be alive today, instead of having her brains splattered over her bed-head? - by her very own, much adored, assault rifle!

    You seem to be taking this posting and all of the comments that you do not agree with as personal attacks on your ability to talk sensibly about a subject that if not handled carefully bu Obama and his team will likely bring about bloodshed in the streets in America

    So you might just get the message that its not about you but about some 311 million citizens who ......instead of playing golf .....need to own firearms and to shoot them in a variety of ways

    So old chap talk to someone else .....an American gun owner ....an American who does believe in the 2 nd Amendment and an American who fought 2 wars of Idependance

    I am done with talking or trying to talk to you who is a bigoted person such as yourself who is trying to ram his opinions down another persons throat
    aquatrek
    18th Jan 2013
    10:53pm
    'need to own firearms and to shoot them in a variety of ways' - and there it is - the irrational unreasonable strange urge desire to have a weapon that can kill instantaneously. Suffer the little children because they know not what they do - amen.
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    9:44am
    Your comments aquatrek are out of line and stupid and you should stop trolling this topic .........It would be good if you could say something sensible but you do not seem to be able to do so
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    9:59am
    so if a debate seriously questions your own personal sentiments about a very hot topic your only method of response and somewhat childlishly and irresponsibly is to revert to a direct personal name calling attack oh fellow troll
    Michael
    19th Jan 2013
    2:38pm
    That is a classic example of "pot calling kettle black" Aquatrek.
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    3:37pm
    hello hello its Mr Perfect Angel Michael interjecting again - go and save some forlorn lost souls or something useful - like banning the import of all guns of all shapes and sizes, registering all those that are here in Oz and declaring illegal any that are not registered.
    How is my crossbow factory going to be successful with all of those darn guns out there, just waiting to kill groups of kids or passersby or shoppers or little ole ladies or hunting buddies or law enforcement agents or hapless endangered species etc.
    Michael
    19th Jan 2013
    5:21pm
    I am trying to save a lost soul, but you just won't cooperate, Hehehe
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    5:29pm
    I would look deeply inwardly and consider saving whats left of yourself 1st Angel Michael - why not start with that very un-angelic avatar pic as I dont see any wings protruding
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    1:23pm
    Ohhhh I can just feel the love :)
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    8:03am
    I request that this post group be censored as the accusation of being a troll has been made.
    Michael
    22nd Jan 2013
    9:11am
    "Trolling" Oxford dictionary defines the word as a type of fishing and I think it was used in this sense rather than defining anyone as a Troll.
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    9:41am
    100% incorrect as usual
    Maggie ( SA )
    19th Jan 2013
    1:34pm
    If it were legal for me to own a small handgun for defence of myself /family /property in my home I would buy one and I don't believe guns of any type should be carried in public except by police etc.
    There are too many instances of older folk living on their own being targeted and assaulted and in some cases even old ladies have been raped by young thugs,not having any experience or indeed the physical strength required to wield a baseball bat ,a gun would be my choice and if it was turned against me ? too bad, at least I wouldn't be a helpless victim, the thought of actually killing someone may alarm me as I would aim for the lower body but as far as I'm concerned anyone who attempts to break into my home has no redress within the law ,which they were breaking in the first place
    .Not many will agree with me and that's okay, I don't agree with a lot that's written in this thread but do agree with their right to post without being denigrated for same
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    3:08pm
    Very good comments Maggs........a lot of women carry guns or have them in the house for self protection .......not in Aust unfortunately
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    3:15pm
    Somebody picked the wrong girl


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=BQHWTfFV3Vc


    Just as well she was prepared
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    3:18pm
    copy and paste the link into your browser ......it won't go live at the moment but will play fine otherwise .........its worth seeing
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    3:39pm
    OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!! you are indeed a peddler of the NRA mindset - its a film made by GlockUSA - major manufacturers of handguns.
    Anonymous
    20th Jan 2013
    2:42pm
    It's good to see that Clay is now outed as a front-line spokesman for the American firearms industry, as he links to a blatant firearms manufacturers "fear propaganda" ad.

    Clay, show me the numbers of women who have been able to subdue an attacker with a firearm - and I'll show you the vastly larger number who have been ambushed whilst armed - or had their weapons taken from them and used against them!

    Of course, your arms manufacturers ad conveniently leaves out the scenario where a sleeping woman is awoken by being seized - without even the slightest chance of grabbing her firearm, slipping off the safety catch - and aiming it whilst still trying to wake up!

    Your NRA and firearms manufacturers propaganda is straight out of Goebbels handbook - and the use of very young children by firearms proponents, in their advertising and YouTube movies is nothing short of child abuse and corruption, and shows up the total moral bankruptcy of your firearm industry and its followers.
    What is worse, is they nearly all claim to be top-level, God-fearing Christians! They make me puke!!
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    3:42pm
    I am surprised that you recognised it for such a person who does not believe in self defence.........try hard and maybe one day you will see the light
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    3:52pm
    ha - its about time that you opened your eyes and came in from the dark and you dont surprise me one iota
    Maggie ( SA )
    20th Jan 2013
    1:50pm
    Good for her!!
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    4:03pm
    Was it your daughter in the movie .......???.......I now understand how you think
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    5:34pm
    you understand very little about this blog topic and far far less about how I a troll thinks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Michael
    19th Jan 2013
    5:25pm
    Well done, Clay, another interjecting poster to be dealt with !
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    5:32pm
    you count your chickens too soon Angel Michael as I am a troll [well at least Clay thinks so] and we are from the underworld and have special powers hehehehe

    ps - when did you last address the topic ? you know - the debate substance. Oh I forgot - outside of your attention span and cognitive capacities.
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    5:31pm
    I often think that fellows such as he are playing games Michael and are hell bent on creating trouble for the sake of it .......His daughter or wife in such a situation would be glad of a firearm of any type for preservation s sake ......Anyway he knows that we are on to him and so be it
    Michael
    19th Jan 2013
    5:40pm
    Clay, he bites so well but I do get a little sick of his inane pseudo intellectual comments and attempts at satire.
    Michael
    19th Jan 2013
    5:43pm
    I should add my position on firearms was stated earlier in the piece. I don't feel the need to re-state it ad infinitum.
    Michael
    19th Jan 2013
    5:54pm
    Losing it, are we, Aquatrek ?
    aquatrek
    19th Jan 2013
    6:01pm
    no but your new sandpit buddy has by actually posting a video link made by a gun manufacturer. What will 'it' do next Angel Michael - advertise hand guns for sale out of the back of the truck on this blog ? You have stated your 'stance' but lets start with who makes guns AM [Angel Michael] ? Try that for my Q 1.
    Michael
    19th Jan 2013
    6:14pm
    I really think we should let Kaye and company pose the questions, anyway I am finding this is becoming boring so, there you go, you can have the last word - with my complements!
    clay
    19th Jan 2013
    6:59pm
    This person is out of control for sure Michael and can not understand the topic or the answer

    I am done wih this conversation .........thanks for your contribution
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Jan 2013
    7:27am
    Oh thank heavens for that. Now will someone please switch the damn light off - I'd like to get some sleep?
    Kaye Fallick
    20th Jan 2013
    11:03am
    Hi YLC posters,
    Just advising we have removed a couple of remarks which are outside our guidelines - they were personally abusive and therefore do not have a place in this discussion.
    Be strong, feisty, provocative, but please do not write comments about other members.
    clay
    20th Jan 2013
    11:22am
    Thanks Kaye...........a difficult subject and I applaud you for posting it ......One needs to think and to talk like an American but its a bit hard to do .........have a nice day ...........clay
    student
    20th Jan 2013
    1:29pm
    A good debater attacks the question NOT the person.
    Maggie ( SA )
    20th Jan 2013
    1:56pm
    Thanks Kaye, forums are not for trouble making trolls whose only aim is to offend and disrupt otherwise civil discussion/debate, even facebook is getting wise on these cowards whom I daresay if met on the street wouldn't say boo to a fly
    Michael
    20th Jan 2013
    5:06pm
    My apologies if I have upset anyone other than Aquatrek--------------------8-)
    Michael
    20th Jan 2013
    5:09pm
    I would also like to thank Kaye for her commonsense interjection!
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    8:07am
    You couldnt 'upset' me in a fit Angel Michael - we know each other well on here and maybe one day will share an ale over why you never have any input into the debate other than interjecting when others are 'discussing' topic aspects
    clay
    20th Jan 2013
    6:04pm
    Quote

    What is worse, is they nearly all claim to be top-level, God-fearing Christians! They make me puke!!

    Well now you can puke all you like because I have made a mistake and the Glock film was of a felon breaking in to your house and it was your daughter that was saved by the possession of her Glock

    So digest that one old chap and leave the sensible citizens alone
    Anonymous
    20th Jan 2013
    6:34pm
    There's nothing sensible about people who believe that arming a nation with a billion firearms is going to create peace.

    This is the same idiotic logic used by Richard Gatling when he invented the Gatling gun.
    He claimed that a weapon with such dreadful killing power would bring about so much fear, it would end all wars!

    We all know now, that all the Gatling gun produced, was bigger and better machine guns - that resulted in the monstrous casualties of the Somme - where 20,000 FULLY-ARMED soldiers, died in a SINGLE DAY, at the hands of German machine gunners!

    What is your vision for the world, Clay? A machine gun issued to every child at birth, so they can be fully conversant with its use, to fix up playground bullies at kindergarten?

    What do you see as the ideal home? A dozen loaded firearms in every room? After all, you wouldn't want to be any more than a step away from a firearm at any time, would you - because of all those armed thugs that are looking for you 24 hrs a day? I don't know how you even sleep?

    You are utterly in the pay of firearms manufacturers, and have sold your soul to Satan, if you firmly believe this American garbage about more firearms means more security.
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    8:08am
    hear hear Aaron !!
    clay
    20th Jan 2013
    6:17pm
    Hot off the press


    47 states revolt against Obama gun control

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/47-states-revolt-against-obama-gun-control/#uDm5HgF5KjVZq7c3.99


    Read about it here
    Anonymous
    20th Jan 2013
    6:44pm
    Once again, the WND site is a rampant, foamy-mouthed, right-wing extremist website, with a picture of Obama listed as a Muslim - showing the VISCERAL, RACIAL HATRED and FEAR-MONGERING of the right wing extremists in the U.S.

    In addition, you have immediately warped the news to, "47 States revolt against Obama" - when the article clearly states that "in 47 States, firearms supporters are taking their protest to 47 State capitals".

    There's a big difference between your interpretration of the article, and the ACTUAL truth of the article - which is - those firearm protesters, are NOT a majority - just a very vocal and vicious ugly minority, driven by visceral hatreds. Pretty sad people really.
    clay
    20th Jan 2013
    6:19pm
    Copy and paste the link into your browser
    wally
    20th Jan 2013
    10:13pm
    It amuses me that people in this forum get themselves so worked up about what people do overseas that they have no influence over. Regarding the things people do that we do not like, we can add guns, genocide, deforestation, slaughter of whales,, selling fireworks, female genital circumcision, bull fighting, rodeos,,circus animals being "deprived of liberty and tortured, torture of political prisoners, decapitating people who commit offences. and so on.Some even object to people that dress up their pets, photograph them and put the pictures on the internet. Perhaps the "inner wowser" has been released. People who want to do something about gun ownership in the US should encourage Australia to become America's fifty first state. Then they could vote and make your opinion be felt and beworth more than so much hot air.
    Anonymous
    20th Jan 2013
    11:12pm
    Wally, I'm slamming the American gun-nuts on here, because they make a point of infiltrating every website and forum on the planet, and pushing their gun mantra on US.

    They are propaganda merchants using the finest of Goebbels teachings.
    As a result we have Australian firearm lovers quoting NRA mantra like its Australian teachings.

    We already have so much American culture foisted on us daily, half the population already thinks we ARE the 51st State!
    I have 5 police in my family, and they tell me of how they pull up young crims, and they start claiming protection under "the 5th"!!
    That's just how much American culture is permeating our Australian society.

    I want to see Australia, STAY Australian - and not adopt American culture - and particularly American GUN culture - which the NRA and American gun-lovers try to foist on us daily, as the way to go!
    student
    21st Jan 2013
    9:17am
    I agree Aaron. I fear Australia will become even more Americanised and adopt more of their insane cultures. Junk food (American based ) is killing us, old and young. I am sick of hearing my g/sons imitate the American twang when they speak. Australia Day is coming up soon, let's all get back to being Aussie and swot the flies and have a coldie as we have a good old Aussie BBQ.

    I love a sunburned country ,
    toot2000
    21st Jan 2013
    9:46am
    I don't agree, I'm not a hater of America or Americans, the good things about their country far outweigh the bad things in my book. The Americans I've met are polite, generous people who have a constitution that was written yonks ago that gives them the right to bear arms. That doesn't make them a nation of monsters. Get a grip people.
    Anonymous
    21st Jan 2013
    11:26am
    Toot2000 - I'm not specifically claiming all Americans are monsters.
    There are many fine American people.
    However, there are many aspects of their culture we need to avoid taking on, and the gun-culture is one of them.

    They suffer from a lot of warped logic, with their religious beliefs intertwined with their gun culture. They cannot accept that a Constitution has to be changed to meet changed social conditions.

    They have a very violent streak running all through their society - that ranges from all-too-ready firearms useage to settle disputes - through to exceptionally violent, cruel, and straight-out sick, movies and videos.

    We just have to be very careful that the worst parts of American culture do not surreptitiously invade our society, so that our society becomes like theirs.
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    11:51am
    BACKFIRE: OBAMA APPROVAL PLUMMETS DURING HIS PUSH TO LIMIT THE 2ND AMENDMENT - Barack Obama's approval ratings have been plummeting since he decided he could unilaterally strip Americans of their Constitutional rights. During his push to ta...ke away the 2nd Amendment his approval ratings have dropped from 59% to 49% and are still diving. This is also nearly 20% under his approval rating four years ago. Seems Americans are waking up to the imperial Obama...a few months too late though to stop his assault on everything traditionally American and the Constitution.

    By the way I have not heard of any offers of information that might make it a bit easier for America to handle her gun laws ....any offers Mr Aaron .........or are you going to whinge again and again and again
    student
    21st Jan 2013
    3:26pm
    Oh Clay, you are sprouting the NRA again. I understood President Obama was going to make assault type weapons illegal, nothing to do with deleting the Second Amendment. See how easy it is to change facts :)
    wscifers
    21st Jan 2013
    9:55am
    Only in Australia.......... So if you can't change it (or change the Democratic/Demoraphic way that things are going because you don't agree with it or like it) Whinge. For all the good you do, unless you can suggest workable alternatives, you might as well be howling at the moon.
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    12:03pm
    The 5th Amendment

    Why would a member of this forum quote the 5th.unless they were an American....see the statement by Mr Aaron above......it has nothing to do witht the subject under discussion .......5 police officers in his family who catch young ofenders .....??????

    Wikie quotes as follows

    The Fifth Amendment protects witnesses from being forced to incriminate themselves. The privilege against compelled self-incrimination is defined as "the constitutional right of a person to refuse to answer questions or otherwise give testimony against himself or herself....."[34] To "plead the Fifth" is to refuse to answer a question because the response could provide self-incriminating evidence of an illegal act punishable by fines, penalties or forfeiture.[35]

    Historically, the legal protection against self-incrimination was directly related to the question of torture for extracting information and confessions.[36][37]
    Kaye Fallick
    21st Jan 2013
    1:41pm
    Last post removed as it was derogatory about another member
    aquatrek
    21st Jan 2013
    1:46pm
    ooops -
    suffer the little children [those that are mercilessly brutally slaughtered every second of every day all over the planet]
    for they [the men that hold, load, cock, point and fire guns indiscriminately at these innocents who dare to get in their way]
    know not what they do [b......t because they know they are murderers of children]
    aquatrek
    21st Jan 2013
    1:48pm
    gun control in Australia I would rate as 7.5/10
    gun control in the USA at about 4/10
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    1:48pm
    How about this comment Kaye placed at the end of his other post

    quote

    You are utterly in the pay of firearms manufacturers, and have sold your soul to Satan, if you firmly believe this American garbage about more firearms means more security.
    aquatrek
    21st Jan 2013
    2:04pm
    you should ask Kaye for a job
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    2:07pm
    How do you know that I have not ........any other thing to say .....???
    aquatrek
    21st Jan 2013
    2:14pm
    thats for you to find out dear Clay - here is a video clip that you will find to your liking http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=BQHWTfFV3Vc
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    2:38pm
    Thats been posted before ......do you need to go back to sleep old chap
    aquatrek
    21st Jan 2013
    2:44pm
    no disrespect meant dear Clay 'olde chap' but where do you think that I got the video link from - the moon ? I just thought that you would be a repeat watcher of such clips and no harm in feeding it back to you - no harm at all 'olde chap'
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    2:56pm
    The clip was sent to me by a dear fried in America and it would be well for the nockers to look at it and for them to study the implications of a citizen who intends to protect herself....The scoffers in this forum and there are only a couple think that we live in a perfect society and that all is well and safe and happy and well meaning

    The bad guys do not subscribe to this and they want a society in which they can please themselves and they can rape and pillage and murder ...

    Now I don't like the possibility of that hapening here in Australia and make no mistake it certainly hapens in America and in many other places of the World ......Read the papers and see what is going on in Europe and the Middle East and if you want to live in that sort of environment then I and my family do not

    Its easy for the nockers to laugh and scorn and there are a few that I could name who do this and dare I say it I hope that its NOT to their peril

    I will see what sort of response these comments get but I bet you some will not believe me .....they do not have to mind but they should quit on being so smart and snide and holy and nasty to those who do

    Lest see who will comment here ........the usual suspects I reckon
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    3:40pm
    Student

    Oh Clay, you are sprouting the NRA again. I understood President Obama was going to make assault type weapons illegal, nothing to do with deleting the Second Amendment. See how easy it is to change facts :)

    Did I say that he was ......you seem to forget that I did NOT write the story so read into it what ever you may but don't say that I said things that I did NOT
    student
    21st Jan 2013
    4:01pm
    Well, from how I read these words of your posting, the bold type "... limit the 2nd Amendment ... " and 3 lines down you state "... During his push to ta...ke (sic) away the 2nd Amendment his approval ratings.." either your sources are inaccurate or you are . There is nothing to indicate you are quoting another source so I assumed it to be all your work. Silly me :)

    BACKFIRE: OBAMA APPROVAL PLUMMETS DURING HIS PUSH TO LIMIT THE 2ND AMENDMENT - Barack Obama's approval ratings have been plummeting since he decided he could unilaterally strip Americans of their Constitutional rights. During his push to ta...ke away the 2nd Amendment his approval ratings have dropped from 59% to 49% and are still diving. This is ....
    student
    21st Jan 2013
    3:42pm
    we may not agree about gun control but do we agree there is a difference in the American culture and the Australian culture? Do we agree that a lot of Americans feel they have a God-given right to bear arms ... of any kind for any reason? Whereas most Australians would not have a legitimate reason for owning or wanting a gun?? Do you think Pres. Obama will take it upon himself to legislate a gun reform bill?? Is he brave enough? Does he have (that Mexican? word that I can't remember but it means testies ) to buck both Houses and declare it law?? I HOPE SO.
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    3:55pm
    Have you read the American Constitution ..........the 2 nd Amendment says that the people have a God given right to own and to carry arms.........Remember that they had fought a War of Idependancea gainst the British and in later years they were to fight another one .....a Civil War ......so they say to Obama ......you can not take my gun away from me it is unlawful for you to do so

    Its anybodys guess how this will ultimately play out but my guess is that Obama will loose with his many requests to change the law..........maybe some will get through
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    3:57pm
    I agree student I should have posted the link to my previous comments .....I will find it .......sorry
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    4:02pm
    This might be the link student .....its a good one in any event

    http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/2013/01/backfire-obama-approval-plummets-during-gun-push-2481846.html
    student
    21st Jan 2013
    4:11pm
    Apology accepted Clay. That is very humble of you thank you :) I am studying morals again this semester, and I know we all have different views and I must accept those views that go against my standards , and also I have to accept that my views are not the right views as we are all different individuals. And yes, I have read and studied the American Constitution (well, not all of it but some parts) but can not remember much as it was during a traumatic time in my life (NO excuse I know!). I will find my text book and re-read the American Constitution part :).

    (Student whispers to clay) ... you are not as grumpy as I thought :) ..)
    Michael
    21st Jan 2013
    6:53pm
    Nicely said, Student, I only hope you don't think I am grumpy too !!
    student
    22nd Jan 2013
    10:25pm
    Oh Michael, how could I think you (a rough, tough cream-puff) would be grumpy. You're a man so there will possibly be times we don't agree :) POSSIBLY!!! but not surely :)
    clay
    21st Jan 2013
    4:28pm
    Thanks student and good luck witht your studies .....Forums can be a bad place for discussion as they sometimes turn into argument

    clay
    student
    23rd Jan 2013
    10:40am
    clay, I have to listen to all sides of an argument if I am to learn and be informed.
    aquatrek
    21st Jan 2013
    7:53pm
    My Summary: Topic 'Guns are out of control'.
    Not a single blogger seems to be able to get past the 'emotional' aspect [me included at times ] yet the USA has a long history of violence thru publicly owned guns. Assassinations of presidents and who knows how many other lower key political murders. Slaughter on uni campus [Kent State] and schools [now too many to list here] and farmhouse fortresses and destruction on a grand scale of large buildings [Google them]. Criminality has been publicly immortalized in films like 'The Godfather' and 'Pulp Fiction - on FTA tonight]. All because the present gun laws do not protect the USA citizen - in fact they endanger all of their lives.

    Yet in Oz the gun laws have been tightened [since Port Authur] and gun crime has diminished by at least 50% [reported on SBS news tonight]. A victim of that event stated on SBS tonight that she now perceived a much safer Oz.

    So the opposing 'argument' [some say on here an argument shouldn't be an integral component of a debate = stupid comment] is that essentially because of unrest in 'hot spots' around the world and the increased global presence of Islam the USA is on the right track to NOT amend public gun laws. There is even an apparent political sense of 'glee' premised by some that Obama has a fight on his hands to alter the USA gun laws.

    Comparing the two countries and the approach to gun laws and public safety I would choose to live in Oz where commonsense prevails.
    student
    22nd Jan 2013
    9:00am
    I have just thought ... Isn't it the role of the Gov. to protect the people?? Then why do they allow the people to be armed to protect them self?? What is the role of the Police?? USA or Aus. the 'protection' argument doesn't stick. Police protect (I know they are understaffed etc.)

    There are a few Americans living in and around my area and I was amused when I heard one say please do not tell any more Americans about our lovely country 'cause she did not want them to come here and spoil it. When questioned she did say she did not miss the frightening gun culture of America. She married an Australian man but does not want to go back to America.

    Getting back to guns and stuff, from what I read and hear, here in Australia death buy gun fire is usually gang/criminal related. Usually the underworld police themselves but drugs have changed the playing field. In the olden days (Bob Askin and others)there was co-operation between the underworld and the police (always unofficial of course) Sure we had corrupt police but there was some sort of law and order, now it's getting out of hand and there are too many illegal guns in society.

    Technology is allowing us to see the stark reality of all countries in the world, including Parliaments where politicians punch and shoot each other in Parliament. Insane! Fear is a very powerful tool and it is becoming the preferred political tool of choice.

    Your responses upset me at times but I have to read all sides of any argument/debate to learn. Keep it coming ... Thanks guys :)
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    9:05am
    @ student: repeating from way above in case you missed it - my 'invention [crossbow]' is a metaphor [similar but not the same] for 'guns'. I am a satirical bastard in that plain common everyday chit chat annoys me immensely because people do not get a sense of passion nor commitment if the language used is mediocre. As one is not allowed to use supposed 'f..l' language even if the language is commonplace nor personalize remarks [ha some get away with it while others dont] let alone 'troll' a blog I find that my satirical and at times sarcastic discourse satisfies me immensely. Some even like the 'humour' whereas others don't. Different strokes for different folks. So apologies if I go a bit 'out there' and confuse you.
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    9:22am
    ps - your 'arguments' in your discourse are very similar to mine and Aaron's and Ductape's. So we seem to have a split on here - those for more gun controls [mine everywhere on the planet starting with manufacturers - yeh broad but ya gotta start somewhere ha] and those who actually believe that bodies like the NRA and companies like Glock should have free reign to promote and sell guns to whoever wants them [without checks as to why the purchaser would want/need a gun]. Self defense implies that your country has lost control of guns. All interesting especially as you are studying 'morals'. cheers, Steve
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    9:50am
    pss - fear has always been the species way of imposing control - mine is bigger than yours [gun, army] or extortion in that we will harm you if you don't agree or pay what we want [Mafia]. In the USA its all about fear of the intruder. Now the gun lobby want armed guards at all schools [escalating the fear factor to a high public level].
    I dont think that western politics uses fear as such as it is more about the spin and how bad the others are at governing. Elsewhere the ruling powers do use fear as in the Taliban's shooting of the young girl who promoted schooling for women.
    student
    22nd Jan 2013
    4:34pm
    I am a lover not a fighter .... but don't you dare hurt me or mine :) In many ways I am still innocent, but am learning :) I had to leave a tutorial a couple of years ago when the discussion was International politics and I heard some of the dreadful things man has done to his fellow man. I cried :) I passed out in a lecture when I saw a news reel showing the end of the Vietnam war and a Vietnam military person shot a person in the head!!

    I can remember learning in High School ( a Government school) to be aware of the Yellow Peril that was going to invade Australia .... 'they' eat babies!! I was taught this at school!! I failed History :) :)

    People invent and manufacture things to sell and make a profit. I have forgotten how much Australia has spent on still to be produced military war-fare stuff but only the elite few will be able to fly or steer these top of the range planes and ships. Again, we have to have the very best in war-stuff to kill 'the enemy', the unknown enemy who is going to invade and conquer us. Is there an element of 'bullying' in the ownership of a weapon??

    There was a lot of fear tactics used in the past 15 years of Aussie politics and the Australian people have voted in fear. Fear of losing something to someone who is going to take-over our country. I can see the American mentality creeping into the Aussie psychic and I don't like it. Fear of the unknown and the unseeable. I have a fear of guns. I fear what I may do if I have one and I fear what others may do to me if they have one. I'm a pacifist. I'm a lover not a fighter :)

    Also as an ending note, the Taliban showed their real colours ... harming a teen age girl... a GIRL!!Big brave Taliban. I hope yet again, we are shown the word is mightier than the sword.
    student
    22nd Jan 2013
    10:35pm
    aquatrek, do you think more laws will go any way to solving this problem?? The laws are only there for those who want to obey them. People who have illegal guns (mostly criminals) don't obey the law. Mr. Howard was right ... we need another gun buy-back. Sure it will cost a lot but it will get guns out of society.
    aquatrek
    22nd Jan 2013
    10:54pm
    hi again student - I think that the USA faces a gun 'cliff' - tighten the rules or suffer the consequences. Further massacres of children in schools or persons in crowded places like malls will eventually turn the tide but at what cost in human suffering ? Their legislative issues seem not able to be altered as well.

    In Oz the gun stats since Howard's crackdown and amnesty show [anecdotal as stated on SBS - not the stats themselves] a 50% reduction in gun related crime. So in Oz the commonsense approach worked until the recent disclosure that illegal imports have lifted gun ownership back up to pre-Howard days. The ALP cutback on customs funding would seem to be rather foolish. Nobody but Juliar would be able to tell you why. I think that also recently the police have smashed some bikie gang related gun stockpiles.

    So I agree - another amnesty and some of the tax dollars spent on re-education/new education as the new generations continue to progress happily along. Increasing the penalties for illegal ownership [of which I know nothing] to a very high level might also slow the influx down.
    student
    23rd Jan 2013
    10:54am
    another school (University) shooting in America. It seems the was an argument between two students, one had access to a gun and the rest is history. How can people say that having armed security on campus would stop these shootings?? I sincerely feel armed security would only promote more killings. Adrenalin filled security firing at anything that moves and a crazed gunman knowing he was being targeted .. a recipe for more deaths. I'm feeling more strongly that mediation should be taught in schools.

    My 3 yo g/son is being taught (in child care) to say 'Please don't do that. I don't like it, .... Thank you"
    retroy
    23rd Jan 2013
    1:11pm
    The last amnesty cost me $5000 + with the additional tax levy that John Howard imposed, and despite what SBS says the number of shootings and gun crimes has increased.

    I discussed this with a policeman who told me it was far more difficult to buy a fire arm now compared with pre Howard intervention. To which I replied yes, much more difficult for law abiding citizens, but criminals can obtain a gun very easily so just where did the amnesty get us ?
    I even had to get rid of the slug gun that the kids and I used for target practise.

    Bill Oreilly on Fox news has the answer suggesting that any crime comitted by a person with a gun (Big or small) will attract a mandatory 10 year sentence.
    No bleeding heart exceptions!
    aquatrek
    23rd Jan 2013
    1:27pm
    dear retroy: I had the commonsense to quote the source of my information whereas you dont - why ? So with all due respect here are the facts for you and others to peruse:

    http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime

    Gun violence > Homicides > % homicides with firearms
    Oz 16.3435 Ranked 21st
    USA 39.5604 Ranked 7th 142% more than Australia

    http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide/weapon.html

    There has been a pronounced change in the type of weapons used in homicide since monitoring began. Firearm use has declined by more than half since 1989-90 as a proportion of homicide methods.
    student
    23rd Jan 2013
    3:22pm
    There used to be a criminal code of ethics (sounds strange I know) but drugs put a stop to that. The families of the criminal are no longer exempt from acts of violence. Criminals use guns not law abiding people. I see young men walking (walking??? no, loafing) around the streets of a night, just waiting for 'excitement' or a way to get into trouble. They are the crims/thugs of the future. It's hard to break their family values so what is the answer?? You can't just blame an ethnic group. To do nothing will destroy society. We look to America for leadership ... oh dear, I hope not in this case.
    retroy
    23rd Jan 2013
    6:33pm
    Aquatrek some of your rants do not generally demonstrate common sense so why spoil your reputation.
    However, others can just ask them selves how many shootings there are now compared with the pre Howard era.
    aquatrek
    23rd Jan 2013
    7:13pm
    cant you read ?
    aquatrek
    23rd Jan 2013
    7:22pm
    ps - sorry retroy. Of course you can read because you chose to post a new entry in response to my question as to what was your information source. As usual yourself and others who promote heresay [it used to be punishable by death back in the really good olde ancient days - I dearly miss that spectacle] or utter crap are never able to counter propose a sensible argument and resort to attacking the individual. I feel genuinely sorry for you.
    aquatrek
    23rd Jan 2013
    7:32pm
    truly pathetic - 'despite what the SBS says' you said. Honestly, I am dumbfounded.
    clay
    23rd Jan 2013
    9:54pm
    I see that you are making snide remarks again aquatrek.....it does show a lack of understanding of ones comments
    aquatrek
    23rd Jan 2013
    10:13pm
    looks like your grasp of the English language is somewhat flawed clay

    'snide' - Adjective: Derogatory or mocking in an indirect way: "snide remarks"; (of a person) Devious and underhanded.

    Nope - direct and to the point I would say i.e. utter crap, pathetic
    but then those are in response to the discourse/debate/argument responses to my postings such as the internet links to the facts and not the 'person' per se because I don't know the person and can only respond to the text that they type on here. That they do of their own free will as you have apparently done by sort of 'interjecting' with a new post.
    aquatrek
    23rd Jan 2013
    10:18pm
    ps - your post is 'personal' and does not relate to the topic at all but I would hope that it is not censored as that may not please you.
    clay
    23rd Jan 2013
    10:24pm
    That maybe and it could well be you also for your attack on the previous poster.which is very personal .........why not just answer the mans question or have you lost the discussion
    aquatrek
    23rd Jan 2013
    10:36pm
    dear clay: I did not 'attack' anyone nor was there a question to answer. I see that you relish the role of 'self elected' forum moderator so you must be getting enormous self gratification from that. ho hum
    Aloysius
    24th Jan 2013
    1:13pm
    TV News reports that you can buy Glock pistols from the manufacturer in Austria and they arrive via Australia Post with no question.
    aquatrek
    24th Jan 2013
    1:26pm
    now that is darn scary Aloysius !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then one would think that metal objects in incoming international mail are not being scanned by Oz Post.

    On another vein I tried to see if I could leave some luggage [backpack] at a convenient all weekend point of access in Sydney but because of 9/11 etc it is now quite difficult.

    So our society has closed some potentially 'dangerous' public storage facilities but hand guns are still allowed into the country without a licence ? Absurd.
    Aloysius
    24th Jan 2013
    11:42pm
    Customs inspections cover such a tiny proportion of imports that it is easy to bypass them. Further, you can apparently arrange for a corrupt officer to "inspect" the relevant shipment. Australia Post, apparently, is also corruptible.
    toot2000
    24th Jan 2013
    4:10pm
    Last year two Muslim men smuggled a huge amount of guns into the country via Australia Post because their friend, a non-muslim, was the owner of the Sylvania Waters Post Office. Criminals pay well for a respectable member of the public with no history of crime to get an Australia Post franchise, then they imported guns in bits and later put them together. I think that avenue has now been closed by police.
    aquatrek
    24th Jan 2013
    4:36pm
    hi - I hope that you looked at the government statistics links as they clearly show what effect that good gun control has in a society.

    I watched an interview with a NRA spokesperson and he acknowledged that we [Oz] had sent an 'advisor' over to the USA to illustrate where Oz had gone with gun control and the response was 'We don't want to be like Australia - we are Americans' !!!!!!. I thought well that's not very constructive at all.
    wscifers
    24th Jan 2013
    5:13pm
    I believe in gun control too. If you can't control it, you will miss what you are aiming at.
    aquatrek
    24th Jan 2013
    5:20pm
    funny bastard/shiela
    wally
    24th Jan 2013
    9:55pm
    People talk about the good old days when it was possible to leave your car and home without having to lock everything up. This was obviously before Australia had a drug problem. It is also before Mr. Howard instituted the gun buy back scheme 15 years ago. Now we have home invasions reported as frequently as Sydney has shootings by criminal gangs. Does the population feel more relaxed and comfortable now that thousands of people have surrendered their guns? Perhaps the criminals \who perpetrate home invasions are the only ones that feel relaxed and comfortable now that they are less likely to find themselves confronted by an armed householder. At any rate, the people with guns that get all the reportage in the news media for the wrong reasons are the criminals.Pass new laws and expect the criminals to obey them? All that happens is that the legal, responsible gun owners are penalized. Existing laws should be enforced as they are, and the judiciary should remember they are to protect society from the criminals and sentence the guilty to meaningful jail time as a message to their fellow criminals that such misdeeds will not be tolerated.
    aquatrek
    24th Jan 2013
    10:03pm
    quote 'All that happens is that the legal, responsible gun owners are penalized.' unquote - really ?
    student
    25th Jan 2013
    6:13pm
    goodness me guys, the laws are only there for those who want to obey them.
    toot2000
    24th Jan 2013
    10:08pm
    I think the main reason America is not impressed with John Howard's gun buy back is because all the honest people handed them in but all the crooks didn't.
    clay
    25th Jan 2013
    5:22pm
    Thats and excelent answer toot and it is the correct one ......after all why would the crooks hand in their unregistered guns that the authorities know nothing about ......they need them to attack law abiding citizens who have handed their guns in and are as a result entirely defenceless
    wally
    25th Jan 2013
    1:41pm
    Aqua do you really think that responsible gun owners are thrilled at all of the red tape and restrictions the government has placed on them? Do you think the crims obey the gun laws?
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    1:43pm
    If you want to own a device that is capable of small scale 'mass destruction' then it is not a friggin plastic sword that you buy in Kmart !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    1:47pm
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6118/381.short

    PUBLIC HEALTH
    Gun Control Agenda Is a Call to Duty for Scientists
    Emily Underwood
    Obama directed the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other agencies to study the causes and prevention of gun violence - ending a 17-year freeze on CDC-sponsored firearms research. Legislation prohibited CDC and the National Institutes of Health from conducting research that might "advocate or promote gun control." Coupled with a funding cut, the proscription cast a pall over the field. Now, the administration is trying to get a better understanding of the root causes of gun violence.

    So @Wally and others - own a gun and prove that you have the mental capacities to keep it in the cupboards in several pieces - of course if an intruder springs into your premises then you have to say - Dear Intruder - pls wait while I get my Magnum 45 assembled - I'll only be a cupla ticks = stupidity !!!
    retroy
    25th Jan 2013
    4:22pm
    Aquatrek

    I thought I should check on what you subsequently said, and as usual not much that made any sense so I should point out a few thing for you to broaden your knowledge.
    Heresy was punishable by death, hearsay is repeating something said by another person. Just what you were doing with info obtained from SBS.
    If you believe everthing you hear on the news you must be naive.
    I am a university graduate so I have proved I can read, and can hold an opinion too.
    Hope that has been helpful to you.
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    4:44pm
    ha absolute irrelevant drivel as usual - my 'hearsay' is purely metaphorical - [Just what you were doing with info obtained from SBS - hahahahahaha]- at least I give credible sources from where I get my information or haven't you noticed ? are you Braille impaired ? SBS are not fools and usually [not like 9 network] have very credible sources. I bet that you are a 9 addict. As for my academic creds try a Masters 2011. 30 seconds to assemble your weapon or you are DEAD !!
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    4:46pm
    ps - attacking the person again and as toot2000 says 'try attacking the question'. How the moderators allow this crap beats me.
    clay
    25th Jan 2013
    4:25pm
    retroy

    I would back a Uni grad any day of the week ....we have 3 in our family and they sure know their stuff .......have a good week end
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    4:44pm
    ta for the unequivocal backing clay - you are a gem - a real garnet amongst rednecks hahaha
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    4:49pm
    common clay - you are a gun toting man - give us some more fake gun merchant videos
    retroy
    25th Jan 2013
    4:50pm
    Thanks Clay
    I have three children who are graduates too.
    We have not heard if Aquatrek has any tertiary education.
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    5:03pm
    thank you clay - thank you clay - what is this - a little boys club affair hahaha
    As for my academic creds try a Masters 2011. What are yours as if anyone on here really cares. All you morons think about is attacking the person - just hang on a sec while I find my gun parts - I know they are here somewhere - bloody wife has tidied up again - DORA Where are my gun parts - quick we have an altercation that can only be settled by bullets finding their target !!!!!!!!! see ya next week and the week after and the................................
    student
    25th Jan 2013
    6:21pm
    hey acqua, I heard on the grapevine Dora suffers PMT.I hope all you guys know the potential danger of a PMT filled female!!

    Have a safe and happy Aus. Day weekend :)
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    6:50pm
    bloody hell - she lied about her age !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cheers Oz peoples
    clay
    25th Jan 2013
    5:15pm
    aquatrek

    Hold on now and I almost think that you protest too much .........its been a long week and I need a beer or two or three
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    5:26pm
    cheers
    nettiser
    25th Jan 2013
    8:36pm
    Police who assisted in the gun amnesty some years ago were the ones who selected and sold many of the guns they collected that were considered "Valuable" Many of these ended up in the black market and underground crime. So forget the police being beyond corruption
    Remember this quote.. from a well known Pollie some years ago?.. If we disarm the public there's is less chance they will revolt against any government policy..

    The military and Police will be the only ones armed and who' do they answer to? The Government of course.
    aquatrek
    25th Jan 2013
    9:01pm
    Your first supposed well constructed sentence is full of ????????????????????????? crap;
    unless of course you have impeccable accountable EVIDENCE. You probably don't even exist so your input is worthless whatever you propose to be. Are you an ex corrupt police person ?? One of the most despicable despised creatures that walk the earth ?
    wally
    26th Jan 2013
    9:54am
    There are several instances where points raised regarding one viewpoint are disregarded by those who oppose those points. This is akin to rival troupes of monkeys screaming at each other in the tree tops. Unfortunately, this regrettable tendency is not conducive to rational discussion of the topic. Aqua's assumption that responsible gun owners lock up and unload their guns tends to assume that all gun owners are as helpless as suggested as the gun laws demand. Maybe. The point made was that house breakers do not know if an intended victim is armed or not, and may oppose the criminals. What the lawmakers appear to want is that we are reduced to being lambs in the fold waiting for the wolves to come. Perhaps Aquatrek, instead of producing crossbows, produce large pillows so that the screams of wives and daughters being raped and murdered is drowned out by pulling said pillows around your ears.
    aquatrek
    26th Jan 2013
    10:14am
    Where do you live Wally - Afghanistan or down a burrow somewhere ? From my recollection fully assembled guns are not allowed to be kept in private homes [NSW] and that the bolt/firing mechanism has to be kept separate - pls correct me if I am wrong [I am sure that you will].

    QUOTE 'What the lawmakers appear to want is that we are reduced to being lambs in the fold waiting for the wolves to come.' UNQUOTE Very dramatic Wally. I havent seen any 'wolves' lurking behind the bushes lately aka the Road Runner Coyote hahaha Pillows and crossbows hmmm difficult to combine the two in a production line. You are funny Wally like Elmer Fudd funny.
    clay
    26th Jan 2013
    11:05am
    aqua

    The law says that firearems must be locked a way in a special cabinet and that access to this cabinet is only permited by the licensed owner .....In other words neither ones wife or any other person shall be able to get at the ' Thing "...........ammunition will be stored separately and in a dfifferent location

    Some owners may prefer to also pull the firearm apart but from a safety point of view and a theft proof point of view this is not called for by the law

    These laws became national during the buyback programme and after Port Arthur .........and there are athers also which your local Police man will advise if need be
    clay
    26th Jan 2013
    11:08am
    I should also mention that the cabinet to which I refer shall be of a special type as defined by law ......steel safes ,fixtures to the building etc etc
    wally
    30th Jan 2013
    10:29am
    Aqua going off at a tangent to launch a barrage of ridicule instead of addressing and answering an expressed concern and point of view is straight out of the Wayne "Goebbels" Swan "Handbook and Guidelines For Parliamentary Debate".PS: Have you started fashioning big pillows out of cross bows yet?


    Join YOURLifeChoices, it’s free

    • Receive our daily enewsletter
    • Enter competitions
    • Comment on articles
    you might also be interested in...

    Retirement Planning

    When retirement planning becomes life planning it is a challenging, fun and fulfilling task.

    Age pension explained

    Anne explains whether you will qualify for an Age Pension and simplifies some of the more complex scenarios you may encounter dealing with Centrelink.

    Cruising

    Got the travel bug or need a break? Take a look at our latest Seniors travel discounts and deals.

    Meal Ideas

    Be inspired by our easy meal ideas. Search through hundreds of recipes to find the perfect one for any occasion.

    Trivia

    Have some fun and keep your mind active with our Daily Crossword, Trivia, Word Search and Sudoku Games.