How the Prime Minister ‘almost’ bought a vote with a gun

The Prime Minister has been criticised for buying a vote with a shotgun.

A rowdy question time on Tuesday saw Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull vehemently proclaim that Australia’s firearm ban regulations “will remain in place” for the foreseeable future.

These statements come after the Prime Minister was publically criticised by his predecessor Tony Abbott for reneging on a deal that would have made it legal to import a lever-action shotgun which can shoot more than five rounds.

Liberal Democrat David Leyonhjelm this week said the Turnbull Government had “dudded” him over a deal made last year. In 2015, he received a written commitment from the Coalition Government saying that it would lift the 12-month sunset clause on Adler lever-action guns, allowing them to be imported, “in exchange” for his vote in support of the Government’s legislation restoring the Australian Building and Construction Commission (ABCC).

This was a strategic agreement for Leyonhjelm, who voted accordingly. However, the Prime Minister has since told Parliament the Government would “stand by the national firearms agreement”. In fact he said, “We want to see it stronger”.

Mr Turnbull said that is remains the Government’s objective “to ensure no Adler lever-action guns with more than five rounds can be imported – in any category. They can’t be imported at all!”

Tony Abbott, who appears to be vying to be reinstated as Prime Minister, and who originally stopped imports of the gun in July 2015, criticised Mr Turnbull’s actions on Tuesday night. He claimed that there was “no way on God’s Earth” he would have allowed eight-shot Adler guns to “flood into the country” while he was prime minister.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has also accused the Liberal Party of entering into “grubby deals” for its own gain, and stated gun reforms instigated by former Liberal PM John Howard following the 1996 Port Arthur massacre should be upheld.

The ABCC bill, which seeks to reinstate the building industry watchdog, passed the House of Representatives on Tuesday afternoon, though its fate is yet to be decided in the Senate.

It was expected that Leyonjhelm would vote for the bill, however, he had said he would not commit to any promises beyond talking to the Government.

Read more at www.theguardian.com.au
Watch more at www.theguardian.com.au
Read more at www.smh.com.au

Opinion: Sounds like a floodgate opening

Who among us doesn’t receive the news of another shooting in America with just a flicker of relief that it is unlikely to happen here? In Australia, we allowed this type of tragedy to happen just once before we took action and enacted some of the toughest gun laws in the world.

Following the Port Arthur Massacre of 1996, in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded when Martin Bryant opened fire at the historical site. John Howard led a world-first buy-back of firearms. Since then, there hasn’t been another massacre.

Proving the success of the campaign, a recent study revealed that the overall rate of firearm killings in the country has declined. Everyone, from Hilary Clinton to Barack Obama and John Oliver (check out the video below) agreed it’s a good model.

Twenty years on, who would have thought gun reform would ever be back on the table?

What’s so special about this gun, anyway?

Senator Leyonhjelm says there is “nothing unusual” about the Adler A110 shotgun, except that it’s a cheaper firearm for farmers, compared to pump-action options. It is said to be more effective for shooting groups of animals, such as pigs and birds, which destroy crops and properties.

The firearm can shoot up to eight rounds in eight seconds. In July 2015, the Abbott government suspended imports following concerns it undermined the Howard-era National Firearms Agreement.

If brought back, it would supposedly be restricted for use by farmers and people with a “specific need” for using the weapon. Sounds a bit like a floodgate opening, doesn’t it?

As to the political aspect of this issue, we’ve witnessed another bout of flip-flopping in an unstable government. While Mr Turnbull had previously appeared to have cut a deal with a Liberal Sentor in exchange for a vote (and more recently, refused to rule out negotiating on the Adler), he yesterday confirmed he would “stand by the national firearms agreement”. There’s nothing new to be said here: politicians are endless fonts of promises and backdoor deals. Is this just another manipulation to conceal some other hidden intention? We’ll wait and see.

 John Oliver compares America’s gun reform laws to Australia’s.





    COMMENTS

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    kev888
    20th Oct 2016
    8:36am
    I don't see any problem with guns. Perhaps the govt fear there own safety and don't want its citizens armed
    Tom Tank
    20th Oct 2016
    8:55am
    There are lots of problems with guns. Example the USA killings.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    9:48am
    That is spot on Tom. Funny how those who want guns never look at the bad side of this argument.
    The reality is that gun crimes still occur because the criminals all seem to have guns and the rest of our thugs now use knives to kill people. The only difference is that you cannot kill dozens of people with a knife whilst you can with a gun/guns.
    Hasbeen
    20th Oct 2016
    11:19am
    Garbage MICK.
    As we have just seen in France, you can kill a lot more people with a truck than you can kill with the firearms & ammunition you can actually carry.
    wally
    20th Oct 2016
    1:47pm
    An often overlooked fact about laws restricting gun ownership and use is this. Chicago Illinois has some of the most restrictive "gun laws" in America, yet dozens of shootings are reported every week, Why is this so? Obviously Chicago, and much of America, has a problem with illegal drugs and the gangs that battle over which gang will control the sale of said drugs. The people involved with these drug gangs ignore Chicago's gun laws in the pursuit of their criminal activity. This has gone on in Chicago since the time of Prohibition and Al Capone, and the problem with drug gangsters shooting each other in Australian capitol cities reminds us that Australia is not immune to this problem.

    Laws that make gun ownership more difficult for the average person are simply ignored by the criminals. Home invasions we hear about on a weekly basis simply did not happen a generation ago. Would be home invaders simply did not know if they would be confronted by a gun owning house holder or not then. This is not the case now.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    2:36pm
    Illegal guns are irrelevant to this discussion.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    4:18pm
    And you can kill at lot more people with nukes than with a truck Hasbeen.
    The issue is putting this ticking time bomb (sic) back into society after experiencing all its horrors here are well as watching it unfold in America where no amount of massacres is too many.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2016
    5:19pm
    If the comment wasn't so dumb kev88, I'd tend to believe you must do comedy for a living!
    kev888
    20th Oct 2016
    9:04am
    the problem is not guns its people
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    10:23am
    Without guns a madman can do a lot less harm.
    Dallanhk
    20th Oct 2016
    11:41am
    Yeh, yeh, yeh, same old same old from the NRA. GROW UP.
    wally
    20th Oct 2016
    1:48pm
    Barak, does your above post prove your point about "crazies" and the harm they do?
    MB100D
    20th Oct 2016
    2:55pm
    It's just like the Fire Triangle, to have a fire you need 1) Material, 2) enough heat and 3) oxygen. Take one of those 3 away and there is NO Fire.
    With Guns deaths, the 3 are, 1) guns, 2) ammunition and 3) people.
    So we can either take away guns, ammunition or people.
    My thought is that Guns is the easiest.
    TC
    20th Oct 2016
    9:08am
    Where did you get your information from the buy back and the drop in crime stats that you claim is false. It seems most people agree even the government know alls that it is not the legal firearms owners that are the problem but the criminals that cause the mayhem in this country. How is tighter gun laws going to help stop criminals importing guns illegally and how many criminals turn in their illegal guns and do you think they will abide by any further strict laws imposed on the legal firearm owners, wake up leave the legal firearm owners alone and start spending time chasing the criminals bringing in illegal firearms. Do you think the Australian people will allow the few members of the Government to take away their firearms I don't think so.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    9:50am
    Whilst I agree the issue is that if you start allowing guns like the shotgun which is currently under discussion then it will only be a matter of time until the crazies get one and use it.
    wally
    20th Oct 2016
    2:05pm
    The law did not prevent the Martin Place Lindt Café murderer from getting his mitts on an illegal pump action shotgun. John Howard's gun reforms prohibited the sale of Self Loading and Pump Action rifles and shotguns to the general public.

    The lever action Adler shotgun that is the subject of this controversy is not specifically banned because it is neither self loading nor pump operated. Lever action rifles that featured so prominently in the old John Wayne western movies are a 19th century technology and should not be confused with the more modern weapons subject to the ban.

    Lastly, the rapid fire demonstration of the Adler we have seen on TV makes me wonder how accurate ( and effective ) using the shotgun in this manner would be in a hunting situation. Sure, it would be capable of ruining someone's day in a confined space, but there are plenty of other guns that would do that which are not stirring up the controversy the way the Adler debate has done.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    4:20pm
    The issue is wally that Monus had an old single fire shotgun. Had he decided to start shooting the difference would have been a few souls compared to the whole lot.
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    9:31am
    If you are going to quote something at lest get it right Yes it was after the Port Arthur Massacre that Howard and his followers decided to band certain types of Firearms. It was a tragedy that need not have occurred 1.the shooter did not possess a shooters license 2. The firearm was not licensed. Would this have stopped the tragedy I doubt it the person was unbalanced and probably would have done something else horrific. The part I come to is Who among us doesn’t receive the news of another shooting in America with just a flicker of relief that it is unlikely to happen here? In Australia, we allowed this type of tragedy to happen just once before we took action and enacted some of the toughest gun laws in the world. We Allowed this type of tragedy to happen just once perhaps you were to young or not even born then but there was the Hoddle Street Massacre in Melbourne again by an unlicensed shooter and unlicensed firearm, The Millipare Massacre in a shoot out between bikes where a young girl so tragically lost her life. There have been others around Australia but thankfully in not in recent years. Their have been shootings of Police who were just going about there business of tr to protect the public to the best of their ability with diminished Police. I my self have no problem with firearms and even though Howard's said if there are more guns in society there is more chance of a similar incident occurring well to my knowledge there are more firearms in society nowadays that there were and yes we do not here of the big massacres but what we do here f nearly every day is what the press like to call drive by shootings, there are people being shot just about every day. Just because we ban guns in society does not mean that certain people of dubious character will not obtain them. What we have now is hundreds of thousands of wild pig in national parks completely destroying the ecosystem, hundreds of thousands of wild camels stripping trees bare. No don't give the public firearms whilst crocodiles roam the rivers and creeks in places like Cairns, Port Douglas, and a host of other city's and towns around the North of Australia. Let them take Humans, Dogs etc but for goodness sake don't allow a sane, law abiding citizen of this country a firearm. No wonder we are called the nanny country of the world.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    9:53am
    Agree but professional hunters already have access to high powered weapons. They do not need this semi automatic shotgun. If they do then time to find another profession.
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    11:37am
    True but there were a sizable amount of people who would go away Pig Shooting and they were not professional but just law abiding citizens. They had registered Firearms and they were registered themselves. The farmers loved them.
    KSS
    20th Oct 2016
    12:42pm
    And the pig hunters and hunters of other animals can still do so without the Adler.
    wally
    20th Oct 2016
    2:15pm
    From a hunting perspective, the two extra shotgun shells in the Adler's magazine are there for the convenience of the shooter. It is just the hunter does not need to reload the gun so frequently.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    4:21pm
    Exactly KSS.
    buby
    26th Oct 2016
    8:07pm
    SO who cares if they call Australia the

    Nanny country of the world.
    REally We care about our citizens, NOT what other ppl say about us.
    We don't need extra guns, and some may be deemed good citizens, but even they can run amok>?
    Stop trying to make it sound like its a good thing to have more guns. WE are not america, NOR should we be following in its path of destruction. and they will self destruct, the way they are going.
    Murdering and killing willy nilly!
    nena
    20th Oct 2016
    9:40am
    Why is it? why is that human beings (have I said humans...?) love TO KILL just because they can?
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    12:06pm
    If you had read my previous posts there are millions of Feral Pigs out there wrecking the ecosystem. There are Feral Goats doing the same thing what would you do leave them alone. The professional hunters will never eradicate all the feral animals in Australia there are two many of they and unfortunately a lot of them sit in our Parliament. No I am not suggesting going out shooting Politicians
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    12:06pm
    because they are macho arseholes!
    nena
    20th Oct 2016
    12:15pm
    Oh yes, there are also thousands of millions "feral humans" all over the planet who are the precursors of wrecking the whole of the planet...to a soon coming total extermination...
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    9:55pm
    Nena if you had a brain in your head you would be dangerous.
    buby
    26th Oct 2016
    8:09pm
    ARE you always so rude Fred. A person just gave an opinion. no need to put them down like that, perhaps you have NO brains either>?
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    9:43am
    This government is so desperate to destroy the union movement that it looks prepared to sell out citizens with the guns laws which were introduced to keep weapons out of the hands of crazies. The argument that only responsible gun owners will have them is the sort of stupidity that pervades this arrogant and unaccountable government and it is about time this pack remembered who brought these laws in.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    10:25am
    "This government is so desperate to destroy the union movement that it looks prepared to sell out citizens with the guns laws"

    That is the risk we face here.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    4:02pm
    Mick, I don't agree that the government is desperate to destroy the union movement, just those unions which believe that they are above the law. The government also wants to make unions accountable and bring them under the same rules as company directors who can be jailed for breaking company law.

    As things stand at present, there are reportedly 2 million union members in Australia and if we allow a modest $10pw as union fees, that means that unions have $20M pw which they can use without any serious checks or balances on where the funds go or who spends them. I was a union member all of my working life because I believe in the union movement. I was never in a union that was militant although I was never given a balance sheet to show how my dues were spent.

    There has been a number of Royal Commissions into unions over the past 40 years and each one has found corruption with union officials being charged with various breaches of common law. If any government wants to clean up the union movement then I have to declare I support them.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    5:45pm
    Fair enough but that is the perfect reason we need a RC into the big end of town and the relationship between the money and governments. It'll never happen though.
    I'll support cleaning up the unions if you support clearing out the corruption at the top.
    Sadly this is a one sided argument where fairness and common sense is not going to prevail.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    9:23pm
    Agreed Mick, I support cleaning out corruption wherever it rears its ugly head.
    Fred
    22nd Oct 2016
    9:58pm
    I just did a quick check the other day and the following countries are just some where the Law Abiding citizen is not allowed to own any firearm.

    African Dictatorships.

    CHINA.

    North Korea.

    I am sure there are many more.
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2016
    10:02pm
    Irrelevant.
    Patriot
    22nd Oct 2016
    10:18pm
    Barak,
    Only because it does not "Fit in" with you want to see things!
    Anonymous
    22nd Oct 2016
    10:21pm
    No, it's because the topic is whether Australia's gun laws should be loosened up a tiny bit.

    Nothing to do with "the Law Abiding citizen is not allowed to own any firearm".

    That is a very different topic.
    Arthron
    20th Oct 2016
    9:45am
    Unbelievable that some idiot Senator thinks this is a good idea and can horse trade with the Government. Grow some balls Malcolm and stand up what's his face Senator.
    buby
    26th Oct 2016
    8:09pm
    YEs i agree Arthron
    BM
    20th Oct 2016
    9:51am
    The current gun laws are tough enough on law abiding gun owners. The illegal guns that criminals have in their possession is the big problem. The enormeous amount of crime caused by drugs is a much greater problem. The misguided do gooders need to focus their attention on that problem.

    And I belive that a majority of the audience that this publication is aimed at would be of the same opinion as this reader.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    9:54am
    Yes.
    Tom Tank
    20th Oct 2016
    10:10am
    There are some serious misconceptions floating around in this conversation.
    There are more people killed using prescription drugs than using illegal drugs. Alcohol are both legal but cause a greater amount of harm in the community than illegal drugs.
    The availability of guns in the community leads to a greater toll of life simply because they are there. Baseball, or cricket, bats, knives, bottles are all used in the heat of the moment incidents when tempers flare and they do cause damage. When a gun is used death more often results.
    In the U.S. we have cases of children shooting other children, children shooting parents, etc etc. It just goes on and on.
    Switzerland, a very stable country, recorded a reduction in deaths by shooting when they reduced the number of people in military service storing their guns at home.
    It is the availability of guns in the community that creates the threat.
    The mark of a stable, peaceful community is the fact that weapons are not needed.
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    11:47am
    BM if the gun laws are as tough as you say can you answer me this one I had to had in a Semi Auto .22 (Which some dumbo from the coalition against guns called an Automatic on TV) but I was allowed and legally licensed to have a .303 bolt action now anyone who has any sort of clue would agree more damage would be done by the .303 that the semi auto .22.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    12:00pm
    Fred, I'm sure some details were less than perfect in its implementation, but the the fundamentals of the gun buy back told ALL Australians that guns aren't toys, and owning guns was a big responsibility.

    The message was almost more important than the details of the implementation.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    12:56pm
    Guys. Seriously. Think Port Arthur. End of gun lobby promotion!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    4:07pm
    BM, why should we have an 'either/or' when it comes to law enforcement? Surely we can have police work on getting rid of illegal weapons and illegal drugs at the same time?
    ex PS
    21st Oct 2016
    12:31pm
    The notion that a semi-automatic rifle will kill more people than the same calibre weapon in a bolt action style is ridiculous.
    Semi automatic weapons are notoriously inaccurate as the person using them usually depends on rate of fire to replace accuracy and skill.
    A skilled person with a long range .303 will out gun an amateur with an AK 47 any day, This was proven in the Afghanistan/Russian conflict.
    I am more concerned with the thousands of guns in sheds and under beds that were made illegal by government legislation and were not turned in because there was no compensation offered for them. I would guess that a lot of the guns in the hands of criminals were stolen from homes and were not reported because they were illegal and the owners did not want to get into trouble.
    Not Senile Yet!
    20th Oct 2016
    10:12am
    Softening Gun Laws....would amount to Polictical Suicide.....people would react with Venham next election! So much so.....that the Liberals would suffer a Massacre/ Landslide Defeat!
    Thankfully....they have received massive protests...notice...of same.
    As for the Senator....don't be surprised if he looses his Senate Seat.....Voters will remember his sneeky deal! Or his own party will not nominate him!
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    11:41am
    You may be surprised by the amount of anger there is out there because the government took away a legal firearm and then made illegal.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    11:45am
    It's irrational anger, among a minority who tend to read the same Shoot-Em-Up magazines.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    5:49pm
    Like tax cuts for the wealthy when we are borrowing money from China, giving it away on Foreign Aid and finding new taxes for workers? Not too sure about that Notsenile.
    buby
    26th Oct 2016
    8:17pm
    Yes mick me thinks there are a lot of shady deals going on and that should be not the CASE!

    20th Oct 2016
    10:28am
    Leyonhjelm' deal a year ago was actually done with Ministers Keenan and Dutton, definitely not the brightest tools in the shed.

    The must be times when Malcolm gets really depressed that the deal HE has signed with his party's right wing to become PM prevents him from sacking these morons.
    Not a Bludger
    20th Oct 2016
    10:56am
    There are a swag of much more important matters for the government (and commentariat) than this trivial matter viz 5 cartridges OK - 7 cartridges not - Lordy lordy
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    12:58pm
    Add homosexual marriage to that list.
    particolor
    20th Oct 2016
    1:22pm
    Read about it in the "Make Ma Day" MONTHLY !!
    :-)
    buby
    26th Oct 2016
    8:20pm
    lol that was a real waste of money mick. It was unbelieavable
    Teddyboy.
    20th Oct 2016
    11:01am
    Certainly don't allow these shotguns into the country but lets also attack the main problem of criminals with guns. Mandatory sentences for possession, with magistrates/judges clearly understanding that there are no excuses, with double the sentence for convicted criminals.
    dougie
    20th Oct 2016
    11:11am
    Read the background before you comment please. This matter in Parliament rests with the restriction on the import of a 7 shot shotgun and the licence to import deferral until Justice Ministers, Police Ministers and Heads of Police in each state meet and discuss their feelings on the matter. I do not think too many will want these guns introduced into our great country. Ipso Facto the ban will remain.
    Farmers do need firearms for pest control but not totally lethal weapons.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    12:59pm
    Semantics dougie. The issue is a relaxing and then widely available. Farmers do not need these weapons!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    4:10pm
    I beg to differ Mick, farmers do need firearms to control feral pests. If you have ever hunted feral pigs then you might understand the need to have a magazine full when you disturb a mob.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    5:18pm
    Yes, farmers need weapons, but probably not a seven shot shotgun. I'm not sure what target will still be hanging around after your first five shots.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    5:56pm
    Farmers do not need what is effectively an automatic weapon. One shot is all that it takes to bring down a pig and given that we are talking about a shotgun this weapon would not even be suitable for pigs methinks.
    If a farmer cannot hit his target with one shot then employ a professional hunter.
    ex PS
    21st Oct 2016
    12:35pm
    Sorry MICK, these shotguns are not automatic or even semi-automatic weapons, they have to be cocked after each shot. An automatic weapon is virtually a machine gun as it will keep firing as long as your finger is depressing the trigger.
    sidney70
    20th Oct 2016
    11:13am
    I can sort of understand why the guns have been taken off Australians but I cant understand why I can,t own a Shanghai or a pocket knife let alone a survival knife.Would it not have been sensible to just ban the military stile and automatic rifles.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    1:04pm
    Knives are the new guns. There is a killing in the street every other day....but you cannot kill 20 or 30 people with a knife as you would be taken down after a couple. A numbers game.
    I am of the opinion that people carrying knives on the street should receive an automatic 1 year jail term. No penalty = no respect for the laws.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    4:16pm
    You can own a pocket knife sidney70. I used one as a part of my employment and I was allowed to wear it in a sheath on my belt. Sure, I had to remove it when I travelled in public but it is legal to own and carry a knife in some circumstances. When I am beach fishing, I wear a knife, in a scabbard, on my belt; legally.

    Mick, I totally agree. When I was a teenager there were fights in pubs and on the streets but there was always the unwritten rule about knives. If anyone produced a knife, bystanders immediately jumped in and disarmed the person. Pity the world has changed so much.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    5:59pm
    Yeah Old Man. Its a different world. In those days you had one on one fights and groups never kicked a defenceless person to death on the ground. Times have changed.....and we are likely dinosaurs waiting to move on.
    jeff
    20th Oct 2016
    11:18am
    https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-the-adler-shotgun-and-should-restrictions-on-it-be-lifted-67299
    Thumper88
    20th Oct 2016
    11:34am
    Agreed, it is not the guns that are the problem, it is the people that are the problem. So why after 20 years are we looking to put more guns in the hands of people? There will always be criminals, don't complicate the issue by allowing every day people to access guns again and add to the problem. If the shooters in this country can't find a gun to use then go live in a country that can satisfy some personal need, as for the discussion on the shot gun simply not required. I do not see the need to increase the private arsenal in this country. If the law is working leave it alone
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    11:58am
    Thumper 88 if you don't like to discussion about firearms which a lot of people on here either appear to agree or disagree with maybe it is you who should go live somewhere else. If the law is working tell that to the Cops who get shot or get shot at, Tell the taxi driver who gets a firearms stuck in his face when some low life robs him of his nights takings, tell that to the innocent people who happen to get caught between warring gangs and the lost could go on. There are a lot of people out there with firearms and they are not afraid to us them
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    1:07pm
    Good post Fred. Sadly common sense does not prevail for some folk. Guns have had their day and should remain off the list. The only thing I would add is that everybody knows that the crims nearly all have guns but there seems to be no laws to put these people behind bars for a long long time when caught with a gun. There should be.
    Dallanhk
    20th Oct 2016
    11:40am
    No problems with guns? "Its not guns that kill people its people?" All propaganda coming from the NRA. Anyone who thinks there is no problem with repeating rifles is an idiot or an anarchist.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    12:08pm
    well said Dallanhk
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    1:09pm
    Yeah. We all know what this dirty lobby group have done in America. Repeated massacres cannot even get gun ownership laws tightened. The guns need to be turned on NRA leaders and politicians who refuse to do something about this cancer in American society.
    Bes
    20th Oct 2016
    12:21pm
    OVER 1000 DEATHS in Australia and the same number guaranteed next year!
    All of these deaths caused by licensed people!
    If they had been pilots.........it would have been found as pilot error!
    Are YOU or YOUR loved ones going to be one of the unlucky 1000+ next year or the year after? You could well be!
    Rest assured no one will be alarmed in any way.
    RIP the next 1000+.
    Thanks to John Howard's strict firearm ownership laws ZERO deaths have occurred by the use of licensed firearms since the laws were introduced! Even by accident.
    As for his buy back (which netted 1000's of old tired guns that no one wanted) the introduction of the new laws along with an amnesty would have saved quite a lot of $$$$'s without actually buying them!
    97% of firearms (or supposed firearms) crimes are committed with ILLEGAL guns! (not my statistics...as seen on Sky News)
    Replica guns (capable of firing blanks) bayonets, Rambo knives and swords are legally sold in Australia.
    Can you tell the difference between a real Glock or a replica at a glance....I can't and I use one twice a week.
    A large percentage of drivers would be refused a gun license.
    By the simple fact of attempting to join a club and being assessed, trained and observed.
    And also after training, inclusive of a written test, to then attempting to license a gun upon producing 100 points of identity for police scrutiny.
    Any type of criminality or behavioral problems aware of by the police, makes it highly improbable of firearm ownership. At this stage no gun is even in your possession!
    Being a member of the Sporting Shooters of Australia Association and also a member of a legal shooting club (with premises) is a compulsory requirement by law along with using the gun for which it is licensed at the said club and records kept for police scrutiny.
    Alcohol is banned by law at clubs. This is not bowls or golf.
    My wife and I both shoot handguns in competition on a weekly basis.
    We are 70 years old and still enjoy the sport...safely.
    At club level everyone is overseen by a Range Officer along with a nominated Safety Officer at every shooting competition.
    As for ILLEGAL firearms and/or replica firearms....this is a problem for Government!
    Where do they come from and who is bringing them into Australia no one knows or seems to really care?
    Far easier to point at licensed firearm owners.
    Are our Customs and Border Patrol adequately funded?
    And lastly.. has prohibition (alcohol, drugs, firearms) ever been seen to be successful?
    particolor
    20th Oct 2016
    12:54pm
    NO ! :-(
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    1:17pm
    Agree with much you have said.
    The real issue appears to be those who are not mentally stable enough to own a gun. But then these are the same people who now kill people with a knife and also with their cars.
    A bit hard to protect people from a decaying morals, the beliefs about rights to justify bad behaviour and general low level intelligence combined with disrespect for the law and those who enforce it.
    Thought swords and rambo knives were illegal to buy?
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    2:30pm
    Bes - illegal guns are irrelevant to this issue, as is driving, and your excellent behaviour as a shooter.

    The argument is simple. It's about importing more guns, slightly more potent than current guns, into the country. The fewer guns there are, the less potent they are, the fewer people will be harmed by them.

    So we don't want these new guns.
    Bes
    20th Oct 2016
    3:27pm
    Barak these (new) firearms are no different than a pump action shotgun and no more potent than what is already available.

    So your argument for reducing the 1000+ road toll is to reduce the number of imported cars?

    Illegal guns are irrelevant according to you....so we can cope with them too?
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    4:26pm
    @ Bes, it is illegal to import or own a replica firearm unless you hold a licence. Very few licences are issued outside police units with probably the only exception being a theatrical armourer.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    6:01pm
    What about a Samurai Sword? I saw Una Thurman in a movie with her sword next to her in a 747.
    Bes
    20th Oct 2016
    7:52pm
    Old Man....especially for you. www.armysurplus.com.au/
    ... and field equipment, boots, camouflage gear,navigational aids, knives, swords, pocket tools,wellington surplus,army surplus,perth,western australia,australia.
    Bes
    20th Oct 2016
    7:53pm
    Bye all.........nuf said!
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    9:37pm
    Bes Pump Action Shot Guns are also banned when they first did this they realized that some Coppers carried them and had to make special provision.
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    10:00pm
    Bes the thing with the buy back was they imposed a TAX on everyone so they could buy the so called illegal firearms back so in actual fact we paid fr the destruction of our own Firearm. Trust a Politician to think that one up.
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2016
    8:36am
    Fred, most government activities involve using taxes from everybody to do what not everybody wants.
    Fred
    21st Oct 2016
    9:28am
    Barak I understand this if there were no taxes the government could do nothing (just like it does now) but this was a special tax, Levey, excise or what ever they wanted to call it but it was imposed on all tax payers so that we could sell our firearms to the government of the day in other words we paid the government to buy our own firearms off us.
    MB100D
    20th Oct 2016
    12:44pm
    Video says it all. In the good on USA 2015, Guns were responsible for 26819 non fatal injuries, 13286 killed in homicides and 505 by accident. As bad as those figures are, it's obviously not enough.
    So how many do you think need to be killed before the yanks stop and say enough.
    Bes
    20th Oct 2016
    12:47pm
    Australian law would make a huge difference!
    Allyfleaau
    20th Oct 2016
    12:54pm
    I blame society as it is today, with the different lifestyle and attitudes. The respect for life is practicularly non existent and greatly influenced by TV, Movies and Video Games. I see no reason for a person to own a gun of any type other than official law enforcement this goes for knives too. At 14 years in the early '50s I was a School Army cadet and was given a .303 Rifle to drill with and to take home, which I do so on my bike. We were taught to shoot on the range. I never heard of anyone misusing one of those rifles.
    Later I owned a .22 calibre rifle to shoot rabbits. Maybe it was close to the end of WW2 but people didn't seem to consider shooting or stabbing people, as they do today at the drop of a hat. Something has gone badly wrong in our society and until it is studied and a solution applied then ALL offensive weapons should be banned to the general public
    sidney70
    20th Oct 2016
    1:04pm
    I agree with you Allyfleaau. I had a similar upbringing. I also blame violent games and violence on TV. It has an influence on younger people and some older . Great comment.
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    10:05pm
    What has gone is respect, respect for other people, respect for others peoples property, respect for the human race. Don't blame it on violent games and TV, kids know the difference between real and imaginary.
    Strummer
    20th Oct 2016
    1:09pm
    Knives, trucks, explosives and all the other things that are used for killing have other uses and purposes. Guns have only one purpose.
    Fred
    24th Oct 2016
    9:13pm
    Strummer Firearms have other uses Target Practice, Clay pigeon shooting, in fact I believe that at one time not that long ago we had a clay pigeon shooter who won a gold medal at the Olympics.
    nena
    24th Oct 2016
    11:07pm
    If there were a “Shoot the shooter shooting” competition I will not miss it for sure.
    KSS
    20th Oct 2016
    1:15pm
    Once again we have a minority crying that their 'rights and needs' are greater than anyone else's. Members of sporting clubs do not need rapid fire shotguns to hit their targets whether they be posters at the end of a firing range or clay pigeons. 'Professional shooters' already have access to the appropriate 'tools of the trade'. Recreational hunters already have sufficient fire power to indulge their lust for killing animals for so called sport. Farmers have been known to use their guns on people as well as any rogue feral animal on their land without the need for extra speed in the delivery of bullets.

    I fail to see the need for anything more. (Actually I fail to see the need for civilians to have guns at all.) Australians do NOT have the right to bear arms in the constitution and I for one am grateful for it. The fact is, if the guns are not available then people cannot use them against anyone or anything for any reason.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    4:15pm
    I have to agree with you. Were it not for big business controlling governments we would have 'weapons of mass destruction' of any sort.

    I find it incredible that a move is even considered to trade a Bill to decimate unions in exchange for future massacres. If that is not corruption at work I don't what is.
    Patriot
    20th Oct 2016
    1:35pm
    Are we - Australians - just "Blood Thirsty Lunatics" who cannot handle the responsibility of handling fire arms? Are WE (Collectively) indeed so "Mentally Unbalanced & Unstable"?
    Are the Swiss people (with at least ONE gun owned per family) - to the contrary - "Saintly individuals" who - obviously - do not have the potential and/or conjure up any of these same "Evil Thoughts & Actions" that we are so subject to!
    http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/
    http://www.beingfactual.com/are-these-claims-about-switzerlands-gun-ownership-true/

    Wake Up!!!

    It's much easier to control a populace which has no means to "Actively" defend itself and where only the "Criminals" have guns!

    I recognise the tragedy of "Mass Shootings" but am forced to ask the question IF (just IF") psychiatric medications such as ritalin (etc) are to blame for such events?
    After all, these drugs now are prescribed "as Routine procedures" to a large majority of the population - including kids - in the USofA.
    https://www.cchrint.org/psychiatric-drugs/drug_warnings_on_violence/

    Is it then coincidence that a "Gun Manufacturer" in the USofA died under suspicious circumstances when he laundered evidence supporting this theory on the Web just days after this posting?!
    http://www.infowars.com/prominent-rifle-manufacturer-killed-in-mysterious-car-crash-days-after-posting-psych-drug-link-to-school-shooters/

    Is it also coincidence that many "Alternative Health Professionals" who are promoting ways to "Cure Cancer" at affordable cost are found murdered/dead.
    http://www.healthnutnews.com/recap-on-my-unintended-series-the-holistic-doctor-deaths/

    Ultimately, the Potential to "Control People" will lead to concentration of the wealth of OUR planet into the hands of Few Individual(s) Families.
    That is: "IF WE LET THEM".
    FOLLOW the MONEY and the answers to the questions we as "Mere Mortals" often pose will become very obvious to those of us who are "Willing to See"!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    2:34pm
    Ah, the conspiracy theory argument.

    I don't believe it.
    Patriot
    20th Oct 2016
    2:52pm
    Barak,
    And the other FACTS presented???
    As you have NOT responded to them, I must assume that these stand!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    2:57pm
    Nope.

    It's effectively ALL of your "facts" I don't believe.
    Tom Tank
    21st Oct 2016
    3:12pm
    Check your fact Patriot the Swiss themselves found that when they reduced the number of Military reservists who could keep their weapons at home the number of shooting deaths decreased.
    The simple truth is that the availability of a gun dramatically increases risk when tempers get frayed.
    Sundays
    20th Oct 2016
    1:45pm
    We met some Americans who told us in regards to gun ownership that their children knew how to be responsible and not take their guns to school! I was shocked. This is not what we want. I don't know anyone who owns a gun except friends on a farm and that's the way I like it. No one really needs these particular weapons.

    20th Oct 2016
    2:30pm
    I have been a shooter since my teens - a long, long time ago. IF you cannot hit what you are shooting at after TWO shots it will well and truly be gone or out of range before the third. A five shot magazine is more than adequate for ANY hunting and a seven shot is an overkill, and no pun meant.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    6:15pm
    Touche!
    Janus
    20th Oct 2016
    3:29pm
    Almost all of the above have really missed the point:

    What we have here is a politician not caring about what he/she is voting for, or whether it is for the benefit of the country, but offering to bargain a vote in order to get some spurious concept of their own adopted.

    Do our politicuans not think about the net benefit of anything to our society before they vote for it? Or do they just vote for or against something to follow party rules, gain political advantage, or maybe some local advantage for themselves??

    Has our entire political system lost its way?? I suspect so - and all they can do is bring up something stupid and that they all shout "Look over there!" and press follows the lead.

    How stupid are we? We let them get away with this, so we are not that smart are we!
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    6:17pm
    And that is the irony of rusted ons who never change their allegiance. If we were all swinging voters the bastards would behave knowing full well what was in stall if they did not.
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    6:44pm
    at last here is somebody, Janus, who is able to see the real point of this article, it is not just about guns. it is his/her concern in regard to the attempted blackmail by a senator," I'll vote for you but only if you give me such and such", that senator should be brought before the courts or thrown out of government.
    reading the other comments, it just shows most of the contributors to these columns are either for or against the government one way or the other, if you are labor or liberal, you can't see past your nose, and not giving a damn about the real issue at stake here, those politicians who put their own party politics ahead of the good of Australia.
    Fred
    20th Oct 2016
    10:15pm
    heemskerl99 that sort of thing goes on all the time in Politics but what I would like to know how the people we voted for and a lot of people will again vote for got us into $1 trillion of debt yep it ticked over that amount the other day. Now that is what I am worried about. Just as much as the Pollies making laws that make Australia the Nanny State of the world.

    20th Oct 2016
    3:48pm
    This is really a storm in a teacup and there is no risk whatsoever to existing gun laws. The matter has been raised by Labor because they feel that a shady deal has been done with a senator to assist legislation on an unrelated matter.

    This all started when it was thought that lever action shotguns may have been originally put under the wrong classification. 5 shot, lever action shotguns are already allowed under category A but the 7 shot, lever action shotguns have been withheld pending a discussion about classification. This is a state and territory decision under COAG rules and will be ratified by the federal government when a consensus is reached.
    MICK
    20th Oct 2016
    6:18pm
    Agree. The poo has hit the fan and the rats will pull their heads in.
    Pass the Ductape
    20th Oct 2016
    5:29pm
    Can't see the problem really!
    Owning a 7 shot, shottie (which incidentally is really an 8 shot with one up the barrel) as opposed to a 5 (6) shot, shottie, only make it easier for some demented moron to kill people? They may as well have an opportunity to take out a couple extra for good luck!
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    5:45pm
    And the stupidity of all of this is that it is legal to take your existing 5 shot to a gunsmith and have it converted to a 7 shot (or 8 shot if you have one in the chamber).
    Anonymous
    20th Oct 2016
    5:49pm
    Yes, that does seem stupid, if true.
    ex PS
    21st Oct 2016
    8:17pm
    I always thought that it was illegal to tamper with firearms in order to make them non-compliant with current laws, as in attaching a silencer or turning a semi auto into a fully automatic weapon? But I suppose adding magazine capacity is done all the time, so it would not take too much modification.
    I personally have always had the opinion that guns do not kill anyone, there has to be a person attached to pull the trigger.
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2016
    8:25pm
    If the gun doesn't exist, that trigger finger is less likely to kill anyone.
    ex PS
    21st Oct 2016
    1:00pm
    I spent some time in the armed forces and was a gun enthusiast even before that. When John Howard bought in the new gun laws I argued against them and thought I was hard done by.
    But I turned in my semi-automatic weapons as I believe in complying with the laws of my country. I must admit I don't miss them as much as I thought I would.
    The thing that helped make the process more palatable was the fact that I got fir compensation for the guns that i turned in.
    As usual the government did not stop at the initial concept of taking semi-automatic guns out of the system, it went one step further and tightened gun licensing laws so that tens of thousands of bolt action and lever action guns were made illegal and were required to be turned in without compensation.
    I personally know of people who did not feel like just turning over guns worth thousands of dollars to the government with no compensation available, they were buried in back yards, hidden in sheds and backyards and in some rare cases sold to people who did not have the credentials to buy one legally.
    This is where a lot of guns found there way into criminal hands, a person who has a gun stolen and faces a heavy fine for having an unlicensed gun, is not likely to admit to the police that it has been stolen. Just another case of overreach by government and a systemic problem being created by trying to cheat people out of just compensation for property confiscated by them.
    Another thing that I would like clarified by those who are more up to date with firearm legislation, I have always had the impression that a licensed shooter could own a .308 lever action rifle which is much more powerful than a shotgun of the same type? If this is so why are we getting hysterical over a lever action shotgun that is only a fraction as powerful as any rifle?
    Anonymous
    21st Oct 2016
    1:12pm
    Because freeing up gun laws in any way at all is unnecessary, and will send the wrong message.
    PIXAPD
    21st Oct 2016
    4:16pm
    WHO CARES what Americans think?
    PIXAPD
    21st Oct 2016
    4:21pm
    It's OK it's OK, licenced, registered firearms owners are not going to turn into crazies;

    HOWEVER, a crim might break into the home of a gun owner (not knowing that) and have a knife at the throat of his wife or child, and BANG, the husband shoots him dead..... I say...'give that man a medal and don't seize his firearms'
    ex PS
    21st Oct 2016
    8:08pm
    Absolutely! As far as I am concerned, you trample on the rights of your fellow humans, you should automatically have yours revoked.
    PIXAPD
    22nd Oct 2016
    3:37pm
    The old saying 'Son of a gun'....that would be a Derringer?
    jamesmn
    22nd Oct 2016
    2:12pm
    you would have to be dreaming kev888 there is everything wrong with guns.and turnball and his 2 cronies are nothing but liars.
    ex PS
    23rd Oct 2016
    5:18pm
    And yet if the country is in danger of being invaded you will call upon people with guns to defend it, if a criminal is holding a knife to your loved ones's throat you will ask an armed police officer to help them.
    But there is "everything wrong with guns"?
    There is everything wrong with people who resort to guns to commit crime, but the crime will probably be committed whether the criminal can get a gun or not.
    I have heard a non-confirmed statistic that indicates gun related murder has decreased but the actual murder rate has not. If this is so, we would have to consider the effort against the gains.


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