Early report reveals signs that cashless welfare card trial is working

Reports shows that the cashless welfare card is having a positive effect on the community.

Early report reveals signs that cashless welfare card trial is working

The cashless welfare card being trialled in Ceduna, SA, and East Kimberley, WA, has shown signs of promise, with pokie spending down 15 per cent and reduced rates of drug-taking and alcoholism, but is it enough to warrant the program being expanded across Australia?

Early reports seem to suggest that it may well be enough, with around half of the Ceduna community noticing less drinking in the area – in fact, eight out of 10 card users now say they drink less. Around one in five say that they are using illegal drugs less.

The Mayor of Ceduna, Allan Suter, claims that the cashless welfare card is “the best thing we’ve ever had”.

Figures from the report show that spending on pokies has decreased by around $100,000 since the card was introduced to the area. There was also a noticeable decrease in people accessing homelessness services, with 253 seeking help during the last quarter, compared to 491 in the same period last year.

Other positive effects of the trial include more spending on fresh fruit and vegetables, fewer admissions to the sobering-up unit and decreased admissions to the emergency department for alcohol-related issues.

It is worth pointing out, however, that the preliminary report is based on small numbers and specific timeframes. The cashless welfare trial is due to finish in two months, and a full report will be compiled mid-year.

Welfare recipients on the cashless welfare card trial have 80 per cent of their benefits deposited into a debit card. Those benefits cannot be withdrawn as cash, leaving only 20 per cent available to them in physical money. The card, co-designed by indigenous leaders concerned by drug and alcohol dependency and gambling problems in the community, has been widely accepted in Ceduna and the East Kimberley.

Human Services Minister Alan Tudge is encouraged by the positive early signs.

“The document is not public yet, but we are encouraged by the progress being made in reducing the gambling and alcohol consumption which underpins so much of the social problems,” said Mr Tudge.

Although the trial exhibits many positive signs, there are still some negative effects. There have been reports of recipients changing their address to bypass the trial, concerns about a black market for cash and instances where a recipient asks a cab driver to charge them double for a fare then requests the difference in cash.

The Greens are concerned that the drop in alcoholism and drug use could lead to increased instances of domestic violence.

“I’d also be very interested to see if there’s any information around the reported rates of domestic violence,” said Independent South Australian Senator Sky Kakoshke-Moore.

Despite mixed reports about the trial’s efficacy and protestors saying that the card is a breach of human rights, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is reported to be considering rolling it out across the country.

Read the Cashless Debit Card Trial overview
Read the Ceduna Mayor’s message

What do you think of the early findings? Would you be happy having your benefits deposited in such a card? Do you think the card is a breach of human rights?

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    COMMENTS

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    Not a Bludger
    31st Jan 2017
    10:47am
    Yes - just get on with it.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    12:16pm
    You first..... we'll be right behind you... promise.....

    Signed: Never been a bludger.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    10:48am
    The cashless welfare card should be rolled out to everyone on welfare including OAPs.

    It would help stop women lining up in their PJs at ATMs in the early hours of the morning to get their partners cash for drugs as they fear being beaten themselves or worse still their kids. It would also stop those shonky door to door salesmen preying on OAPs if they couldn't be taken to the bank to get cash.

    It would also go a long way to help curtail the cash or black economy.

    I've heard all those arguments against it before when they wanted everyone to put their welfare money into bank accounts.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    11:33am
    That won't cover many at all, OG - since the vast majority are on Social Security and not welfare - only a very few who receive no income etc and no Social Security actually receive welfare assistance via help from charities etc as their means of existence.

    Who are you to even begin to suggest that The Honourable Pensioner or The Honourable Unemployed should be dictated to by Big Brother over how he/she spends his/her money?

    "It would help stop women lining up in their PJs at ATMs in the early hours of the morning to get their partners cash for drugs as they fear being beaten themselves or worse still their kids."

    Where DO you live, mah man? That is far from the reality for the very vast majority.

    Sometimes you make sense - other time you are just another thieving, closet Fascist who imagines himself better than others - just another one with the snout in the trough from your own reports.

    And a troll to boot.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    11:56am
    All social security is welfare Trebor.

    Obviously since you are tucked up in a nice warm bed in the wee hours of the morning you would have no notion of people lined up at ATMs.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    12:09pm
    How many such actually do that, and where in Hell (true position) do you live to even begin to see such things? What's more - how do you KNOW all those women are getting their 'pay' to buy drugs or risk bashing, etc?

    You really paint a very wide brush with not paint there, mister.

    THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD KNOW THESE THINGS IS IF YOU ARE PART OF THEM.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    12:37pm
    I've seen a lot of CCTV footage of this happening in many areas. When I first saw it I couldn't understand why these women were so desperate until I was told what was happening.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:05pm
    Once again - so this miniscule percentage in that kind of situation (of which you still know next to nothing, since they could be drawing money to buy supplies at 7-11) - means the Big Brother Guv should stamp down on all Social Security recipients?

    The serfs should do as they are told, eh?

    Truly some of you are lost souls....
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    2:01pm
    Social Security is bought and paid for - it is not welfare.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    2:02pm
    Nope social security has not been bought and paid for so it is welfare.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    3:30pm
    It's been explained to you a thousand times - get over it and get back to work, pay some taxes.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:52pm
    So we agree social security including the OAP is welfare. Good.
    Triss
    31st Jan 2017
    8:54pm
    Will someone explain to me why OAP is welfare but judges, bureaucrats, ex politicians' are not. Old Geezer, maybe...
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    9:36pm
    Judges, bureaucrats etc are paid for work done whereas OAP is welfare because it is paid for no work done and it's aim is to help those who have no other means to support themselves.
    Triss
    31st Jan 2017
    10:41pm
    What do you mean, Old Geezer? Age pensioners have worked all their lives, just like judges, etc, what is the difference? The money comes out of the same taxpayers money it is just called by a different name, and remember, the government had to pass an act of parliament to give judges access to a non-contributory pension scheme.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    10:45pm
    You don't have to have worked to get the OAP but to get the one for judges etc you have to have worked as a judge etc. One is tied to a job whereas the OAP one has nothing to do with a job at all. So OAP is welfare.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:17am
    Try getting your mind around the concept of the communal pot, OG.... the fact of working as a judge does not mean that your current remuneration etc should remain as is.. everything is up for review, you know, in these dire economic times.

    What was set in place in the past must approach reality in the current day - and such things as a lifetime income for politicians is long gone in this day of 'part-time casual'.......

    Judges are paid enough along to way to fund their own retirement - there is zero requirement to pay them for life......
    GreyViper
    1st Feb 2017
    12:01pm
    Sorry Trebor. OAP IS WELFARE!
    It's got NOTHING to do with "working all your life". I've worked all my life and I don't get the OAP. Why? Because the WELFARE department assess my income and assets and deem that I don't need WELFARE support!
    Also to quote you "Who are you to even begin to suggest that The Honourable Pensioner or The Honourable Unemployed should be dictated to by Big Brother over how he/she spends his/her money?"

    It's not THEIR money that they're spending! It's money taken from hard working tax payers and given to the needy for the basics of life. If they are spending it on booze, cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, or gambling then it needs to be controlled so it is spent on the essentials of life, not products that destroy life!
    If you don't like the money you receive being controlled then GET A JOB! Then you can spend YOUR money how and on whatever you like!
    Grey Viper
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:13pm
    Well said GreyViper. I agree. Earn it and then you can spend it how you wish. Welfare is certainly not earned at all.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:21pm
    Wrong, Grey Viper. People who need an OAP (as opposed to people who receive one - many of whom shouldn't) have worked hard all their lives FOR FAR LESS THAN THEY WERE PAID because doing so served the interests of the greedy capitalist masters and enabled overpaid incompetent underperforming arrogant pigs to claim far more pay than they earned.

    Those who were underpaid for their labour for decades DESERVE BOTH SUSTENANCE AND DIGNITY in their old age, and anyone who denies it them is VILE SCUM.

    When our society stops exploiting and pays people what they worth, then your argument will be valid. Not until.
    GreyViper
    1st Feb 2017
    9:47pm
    Sorry Rainey but you lost me ?? If they got paid what they got paid then how did they work for far less than that? And if they didn't like working for "greedy capitalist masters" then why did they? No one made them work for them, it was their free choice. If you don't like it then go and start your own business and work for yourself! No one forces you to work for somebody or company.
    Next, no one is suggesting taking the pension away from anybody, especially those that need it and I don't see where I, or anyone else, has suggested such a thing. I am happy for the OAP to be paid to our older people when they have reached pension age, I just wish the tax payers were able to afford to pay pensioners more! I am also extremely glad that I worked hard, saved and invested all my life and I don't need to rely on the OAP. I am in a very fortunate position to be able to support myself and my wife and live a good lifestyle but luck had very little to do with it. I started planning for my retirement when I was 17 and didn't leave it until I was in my late 50's when it is too late!
    Who are these "greedy capitalist masters" and "overpaid incompetent underperforming arrogant pigs" who claimed "far more pay than they earned" that you worked for? And why would anyone work for decades for someone who was underpaying them? You're certainly bitter and angry at someone and you have my sympathies.
    However, it doesn't alter the fact that some people are spending their welfare on the wrong things and the government has a right to try and ensure that tax payers money (remember the government doesn't have any money that it didn't take from somebody else or borrow overseas) is being spent on appropriate things. I don't want to take away ANYBODY'S OAP!
    Retired Knowall
    2nd Feb 2017
    7:24am
    GreyViper, you have to excuse Rainey, if you had the opportunity to have read previous posts by this Muppet you would have come to the undeniable conclusion that Rainey's only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    10:19am
    GreyViper, you are being rather absurd! Firstly, it people don't work, how do they exist in this capitalist society? On ''welfare''? If they don't work, they have to evidence disability or trying unsuccessfully to find work, and accept whatever the system deems they should accept, or they are cut off and starve.

    They DON'T HAVE CHOICES. The less advantaged HAVE TO WORK IN SHIT UNDERPAID JOBS ALL THEIR LIVES, because the system denies them any other option.

    Secondly, most of the lower paid work for far less than they contribute. If they didn't, the capitalist system would fail because the capitalist masters couldn't make any profit.
    Anyone in this country who doesn't know who the ''greedy capitalist masters'' and ''overpaid incompetent underperforming arrogant pigs'' are is bat-eyed and ignorant in the extreme. I wouldn't even bother to answer such an idiotic question.
    As for your claim of superiority - lucky you to have been ABLE to plan and save from age 17. You are VERY lucky that somehow you were able to acquire knowledge to do that.

    You seem to think that it's only the irresponsible who don't. You are wrong. Plenty of folk CAN'T save because they are paid too little, they have illness or disability that stops them earning and/or imposes huge costs, they have very sick children who cost the earth, a bushfire or flood wipes out their assets.... it goes on and on an on. Egomaniacs will continue to denigrate the battlers, but your chest beating only identifies you as selfish and vile and thoroughly dishonest (intentionally or simply out of sublime ignorance!)

    As to spending welfare on the wrong things - many do. Many also spend wages and business profits on the wrong things. And many claim tax benefits dishonestly or unethically to spend on the wrong things. Come to that, though, who the hell made you GOD, and allowed you to determine what spending is wrong. I have a friend who was given a death sentence from cancer 19 years ago - told he had 1 year at best. He started taking cannibas in large quantities, and he's alive and well and working part time today. Take his Cannibas because his spending is ''wrong''? Another friend drinks a lot of alcohol, with his doctor's approval as it happens, because it kills physical and mental pain and makes him sleep. Alternative is expensive and harmful prescription drugs. Take his ''medicine'' away because society thinks it's wrong to drink? Leave him in agony? Why? He's hurting nobody, and he will still draw the exact same pension if he stops drinking and takes prescribed drugs instead. Oh, but he'll suffer like hell and probably die younger, and arrogant ego-inflated arseholes would be happy about that!

    Stop making it all about the less well off! The government CAN'T regulate what people spend on because the privileged would never allow their spending to be regulated. And they take just as much, if not more, from the public purse as anyone claiming a pension. Superannuation tax concessions cost MORE than the aged pension. Negative gearing concessions are expensive for the nation.

    Pensioners pay tax too - a much higher proportion of their lifetime income, in most cases, than the better off. Afford them some dignity.
    Retired Knowall
    2nd Feb 2017
    1:13pm
    Typical moronic rant,but good comic value
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    2:09pm
    I'd like to know who those ''greedy capitalist masters'' and ''overpaid incompetent underperforming arrogant pigs'' are too as I have never come across any of them myself.

    Genuine wealthy people are some of the generous people I know. My best friend is a very wealth person and very generous to many people.

    Your rants do however give me my daily dose of laughter medicine.
    The Other Judith
    2nd Feb 2017
    3:47pm
    Rainey, I am really shocked when I read some comments by the callousness, ignorance and selfishness of some people here. No wonder the world is going to hell now that there are so many people all over the world for who have no hearts. They must be incredibly unhappy individuals. Compassion and a "fair go" seem to have disappeared from the Australian culture but fortunately there are still some good people in the world. I'm just glad I'm old and will be dead before long because it is painful to watch what has been happening in Australia for the last 30 years or so.
    GreyViper
    2nd Feb 2017
    6:52pm
    Rainey, you poor sad little man. Suppressed by THE MAN, forced to work in the salt mines for 14 hours a day for threepence halfpenny a week, living in a tea chest at the end of a dark alley and living on food scraps thrown out by others. It must have been a tough life and now you're bitter at the world and anyone who was successful and made a few dollars is a "greedy capitalist master" or an "overpaid incompetent underperforming arrrogant pig". There's no discussing things with someone as bitter and twisted as you so I will not be wasting anymore of my less than valuable time bothering to read any of the drivel posted by you. I feel sorry for people who blame everybody else for their own problems!
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    9:41pm
    I'm not bitter or twisted GreyViper. I've had a tough life, but a good life and I'm in a great place now and very happy. I just hate the egomaniacal narcissists who can't tell it like it is but try to excuse a vile and disgusting society in which the rich claim all and treat those who work to keep the nation going as slaves.

    I don't blame anyone for my problems. I actually don't have many problems. But I know how many people in this nation do have problems because of vile greedy self-serving narcissistic egomaniacs who rort the system for their own gain and then treat the less fortunate with contempt.

    No, not everyone who makes a few dollars is a ''greedy capitalist master'' or an ''overpaid incompetent underperforming arrogant pig'', but a great many are. Enough, it seems, to drive government to think it's acceptable to treat pensioners with contempt and strip them of their self respect, steal their houses, and bash them down every time they try to get up.

    Shame on you for defending the indefensible and lacking the integrity, respect and human decency to recognize that the real value in this society is from the low paid battling workers, and not the wealthy SCUM.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    11:10pm
    Rainey I agree with GreyViper you certainly have an axe to grind with someone or something from the past. You are very jealous of anyone that has succeeded in life but peace will only come when you realise that there will always be people who have done better than you.

    One's worries and concerns are still there as they always have been but age has taught me the wisdom of using them to my advantage. Patience and belief in what you are doing are such powerful tools and help me overcome what many others seem to fail to do. You can call me all the names you can think of and try to put me down but my own personal belief system allows me to rise above such things. It also allow me to say what I think not what I think others want me to say as I don't crave the gratitude of others.
    Anonymous
    3rd Feb 2017
    5:04pm
    Congratulations, OG. What a pity your experience doesn't help you to think logically and make intelligent comment, rather than ill-informed rubbish!

    I am not jealous of anyone. I have no reason to be. I have everything in life that is worthwhile and brings happiness INCLUDING experiences of hardship, crisis, trauma, and extreme hurt that enable me to be tolerant, understanding, empathetic and compassionate towards those not so well off, and to have respect for the people who make this nation great.

    I condemn the greedy, selfish, arrogant bastards who make life miserable for others - you included. And I will never stop defending the rights of workers to retain the homes they spend 3+ decades paying for, the right to a dignified retirement after 4 or 5 decades of hard work and paying taxes, and the right of the disadvantaged to live with dignity and in reasonable comfort at the expense of the more fortunate. Neither will I ever stop accusing and denigrating the selfish, arrogant mongrels and the cheats and manipulators who make life in our society unpleasant and who seek to retain an unjust and destructive social and economic system.

    I don't crave the gratitude of anyone, nor their approval. I just tell it like it is - like it REALLY is, and not how the LNP trolls and Neoliberals would like us to believe it is.
    LiveItUp
    5th Feb 2017
    7:11am
    Rainey I agree with GreyViper and OG you need help to resolve all those issues you have that are affecting your life. You need to be able to put all the bad stuff behind you to be able to enjoy the rest of your life few of that bitterness you have stored up. I certainly admire OG as he obviuosly has overcome what you need to overcome.

    31st Jan 2017
    10:49am
    This is almost a bigger joke than Turnbull being the PM. The tossers with th cashless welfare cards wil buy groceries and sell them at a discounted price for cash for buying grog, drugs, and gambling, just like they do with stolen goods.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    10:55am
    Maybe but it is so much better than bashed women being forced out of bed in the wee hours of the morning standing at ATMs in their PJs just to get their welfare money for their partners drug habits.
    Stoker
    31st Jan 2017
    11:35am
    Perhaps Eddie, but will agree mostly with old geezer, lets just do it, if it helps to 'defend' the well being of some then it has to be OK.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    12:11pm
    Ah, Stoker - so the possibility of making things better for 0.001% of Social Security recipients in clearly defined situations somehow means that this idea should be extended to all?

    Truly you petty Fascists know no bounds. The government doesn't OWN Pensioners and Unemployed - nor does it employ them in some fashion - the government is simply paying out the bills as due for Social Security.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:53pm
    Me thinks me has heard all these arguments before when they wanted to put welfare into bank accounts.
    Oliva
    31st Jan 2017
    9:39pm
    Politicians are stooooopid
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:15pm
    Daylight saving fades curtains too.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:24pm
    it will create a tribe of bashed woman who suffered for the fact that they needed the precious 20% for fresh vegies or kid's school books and couldn't give it to hubby for grog. Anyone who supports this knows NOTHING about the lives of the people it is being forced on and is totally arrogant and self-serving in the extreme - and supporting a concept that will destroy our society completely, as it has done in the USA.
    LiveItUp
    5th Feb 2017
    7:16am
    Rainey they can give them the 20% they have in cash as they have80% left on thier welfare card to buy all those things which is a lot better than the nothing they have now. Ever wondered why charity give out vouchers or pay bills and not give people cash? OG is right on this cash is the problem.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    11:28am
    a. As long as you continue to follow the City Hall line of deliberately confusing Social Security with welfare, this is difficult to discuss. Welfare is the intention or aim of providing well-being - Social Security is the method chosen to offer payments and certain subsidies to achieve that end. The use of the pejorative American term "welfare' has no meaning in the context of our Social Security system.

    b. Providing benefits according to whom? Never heard of a government initiative yet that doesn't trumpet (sic) its success, real or not. Look at the 'debt' recovery system - what a complete farce but operating according to schedule and to program.
    LiveItUp
    5th Feb 2017
    7:18am
    No confusion socail security is welfare and includes OAP.

    31st Jan 2017
    11:42am
    Is this a case of a good program or is it a case of good spin doctoring? If the benefit of the doubt is applied, then the full roll-out must be looked at. In saying that, what also must be done is to advise which group the trials have been tested on. Surely not all Australians who receive support are caught up in the web of drugs, alcohol and partner bashing? It may be more difficult to enforce but maybe the voucher system, with limited cash, should only be applied to those who are known to be excessively using drugs or alcohol.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:30pm
    'Alan Tudge' - no more need be said.... it's spin pure and simple. You're talking about the man who defends to the last ditch the current 'debt' recovery system employed by Centrelink, even after it has been shown to be based on a false premise, and the amounts involved - allegedly - per recipient are patently absurd.
    Anonymous
    31st Jan 2017
    2:43pm
    You may be right TREBOR but I think that those who have been overpaid need to reimburse the government. There will certainly be a group that has been overpaid as well as a group which has wrongly been called upon to repay a debt which doesn't exist. I wonder what the real percentage is of those who have been wrongly accused. Is the group that has been overpaid trying to stir up the do-gooders into stopping the program so they can get off scot free? I don't believe the numbers put out by either side at present.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    3:18pm
    IF they have been overpaid - according to the reports so far, the entire problem is that this government has imposed the regime that if you were paid Unemployment Benefit for a portion of the year but then found work, you owe your Unemployment Benefit back as a loan, since they have decided to calculate your entire year's income in determining your eligibility for fortnightly benefits for a limited duration.

    That is a lie by another name, and is outright robbery.
    Anonymous
    31st Jan 2017
    4:33pm
    TREBOR, we read different articles presumably. Yes, the annual pay is divided by 26 where an employer has failed to provide sufficient information as to the exact dates worked because of sloppy bookkeeping or no longer in business. Where an employer has provided accurate information that rule does not apply.

    Nothing is perfect in this world, TREBOR, and where there is insufficient data, another way must be found. If that way is not 100% correct the persons wronged should have enough information to correct it. Some people never keep pieces of paper and those should be dealt with in a different way perhaps. As I said earlier, I'd like to see the actual figures for those who are innocent, have had an employer who is a sloppy bookkeeper or has gone out of business and don't keep any paperwork.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:11pm
    You mean some of these employers are doing a 7/11 and 'ghosting' the wages of employees so as to pocket the difference? Wow....

    You just pointed out the fallacy of dividing annual wage by 26 - totally wrong since most recipients of Social Security with a job would not we working full-time but would be casual.

    It is entirely possible and even probable that they could not earn enough MOST fortnights to lose anything, then work a few peak periods and earn enough to lose part of Social Security.

    THAT is precisely why 'averaging annual income' is totally false.
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:49am
    Trebor averaging income is a good idea as it highlights those who need to further justify their welfare claim. With over 85% doing the wrong thing it is a good initiative by Centrelink. All you have to do is sign a stat dec that you have notified Centrelink correctly and then it becomes a legal matter and they have to prove you made a false declaration in the courts before they can persue it further. That's the legal advice I have been given by a legal eagle.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:21am
    Indeed, Bonny - it MAY trigger an alert - but that alert should NOT be turned into an instant demand for proof from the person involved. that is a step too far.

    All averaging should realistically do is suggest - not confirm - that there may be a problem and that a review is now MANDATORY - and that Centrelink should sit pat on that hand until that review is undertaken, with both sides putting their cards on the table, instead of Centrelink, who have every detail on record and total access to ATO records, holding their cards to the chest and refusing to even look at them.

    You can't win a game of cards by not even looking at your own hand, unless you are pointing a gun at the other person.

    Easy to understand....
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:23am
    Let's look at a cleaner in a caravan park... he/she spends most of the year doing 1-2 days a week, sometimes not incurring enough income to not be paid full Social Security benefit. At peak times such as holidays for schools etc, that job suddenly moves to full-time.... and some fortnights no Social Security benefit is paid...

    Does the annual average truly reflect the income of that person and their entitlement to Social Security payments?

    NO!
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:23pm
    It is an audit and you only get a bill if you fail to respond to that review letter. Simply respond to that review letter as requested and that is the end of the matter.

    YES the annual average would reflect the income of your cleaner. It would probably help them as the averaging would not pick up those few weeks of full time work. One is suppose to notify Centrelink if they go over a certain amount in any fortnight. If it picked up this hadn't happened then they have done the wrong thing.

    Good on Centrelink for doing these audits.
    SuziJ
    31st Jan 2017
    11:42am
    Just let them try doing this with me!

    I'm a 'white' female with post-school education who doesn't smoke, drink alcohol, gamble, or do illicit drugs!

    I have a budget which is working & I pay ALL my bills on a fortnightly basis so that I never have to request extensions to pay them.

    Rather than foisting this on ALL pensioners, let them have a financial health interview to let us out of this ridiculous scheme.
    Anonymous
    31st Jan 2017
    11:53am
    SuziJ with all the things you don"t do one wonders why you need welfare in the form of a pension.
    Star Trekker
    31st Jan 2017
    12:24pm
    I'm with you SuziJ. I'm also a 'white' female with post-school education who doesn't smoke, or do illicit drugs! I do occasionally drink alcohol, & gamble in the form of lotteries. No pokies or racing for me. All my bills are paid in advance and there is always food in the cupboard. I have a fund for emergencies for when disaster falls.
    Welfare cards should be used for those with kids (many go without breakfast before school) or for those that are struggling to pay for utilities or rent.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    12:39pm
    Welfare cards should be used for everyone on welfare including OAP as the government has a right to know where people are spending their money and that it is being spent on what it has been given to be spent on. Welfare is given to those with no other means of support so that they can have the basics of life.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:11pm
    The government has NO right to know where they are spending THEIR money, OG - any more than they have the right to know where you spend yours.

    Once again, truly the mindset of some here is amazing - you seem to imagine that drawing your rightful Social Security Entitlements means you are totally beholden to the government of the day, rather than the other way around.
    Pablo
    31st Jan 2017
    1:18pm
    TREBOR, You miss the point here, welfare is a PRIVILEGE not a right! So it is totally reasonable that the Government knows where my and your tax dollars are being spent!
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:32pm
    Social Security is a right - welfare is when you go to the Smith St Vincalvos for help - at which point it is a privilege.

    Get your mind right, Pablo... what we have here is a failure to communicate...
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    1:42pm
    Collecting welfare including OAP is no different than going to Vinnies for help which as you say is a privilege. It is given to your for a purpose so the government has a right to check that it is being spent as intended.

    Big difference from what I earn as it's not the taxpayer's money and has been earn not just given because I have no other means of support.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    2:08pm
    In that case, so is collecting your super..... it's been subsidised along the way.... it owes back into the system.

    This is the last time I'll tell you this - Social Security is a bought and paid for Right over a lifespan of work.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    2:59pm
    As I have little super then it is not a concern to me.

    Social security is nothing but welfare and certainly not a bought and paid for right. I have paid for it many times over but still get zilch so it is not a right.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    3:20pm
    Well - I'm considering buying a load of demo timber to build a deck - would need to hire a truck out of my next pension - just let some twerp in a suit try to tell me I can't spend MY money, that I've paid for out of my taxes over fifty years, where I see fit.

    I told you it was the last time, OG - you are totally wrong as usual.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:55pm
    You should have no problem hiring a truck using your welfare card if the trucking company is doing the right thing and not working in the black economy. If it is then you are committing fraud by using them.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:13pm
    I've got my own card and my own decision-making on how I spend it - two controlling my money is one too many.... there's not enough involved to incorporate that... If I had a 'welfare card' I couldn't use it to rent a truck.... thanks for coming....
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    9:37pm
    Something is very dodgy about that truck you are renting then.
    Triss
    31st Jan 2017
    9:46pm
    "The basics of life", Old Geezer, according to the Human Rights Commission are, that all are equal and the law shall prohibit any discrimination and guarantee to all persons equal and effective protection against discrimination on any ground such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. That seems to me to to cover welfare recipients as well.
    Triss
    31st Jan 2017
    9:48pm
    Pablo, all politicians are paid on your tax dollars and that has never been a right so maybe politicians should be paid by card and not money.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    10:02pm
    Triss welfare has nothing to do with discrimination at all.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:24am
    Only when a 'government' for ideological reasons, seeks to turn it from a Right into some form of handout.
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:23pm
    It is not a right but is welfare.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    10:34am
    And tax rebates and concessions and paid parental leave and family allowances and a million other handouts to the wealthy are WEALTHFARE, and we need to sort that out before attacking those who have a genuine need and a MORAL RIGHT.

    Let's stop talking about the definitions created by corrupt lawmakers and the disgusting elite and talk about MORAL ENTITLEMENT.

    The OAG IS AN ENTITLEMENT. Any moral person, with integrity and decency, would agree. Only the self-serving greedy egotistical rip-off bastards who take far more than their share of communal wealth refuse to recognize MORAL RIGHTS.
    LiveItUp
    5th Feb 2017
    7:29am
    OAP is not an entitlement it is welfare to support people who can't support themselves in old age. I don't agree eith any of those other payments either. A family earning $50,000 a year gets far more in benefits than any tax they pay. I something think it is only mugs like me who actually pay ta and full price plus extras for everything. I therefore accept any discount being offerred with gratitude as I know I have paid more than my fair share elsewhere. Yes being an old lady people just assume I am an OAP where ever I go now. Maybe a welfare card would be a disadvantage to me as I wouldn't get so many discounts offered as I wouldn't have one.
    Cranky
    31st Jan 2017
    11:56am
    No, all they are doing is trying to impose more restrictions and tighter controls over the aged pensioner so they don't get to enjoy their twilight years. The politicions make sure they don't have any restrictions placed on them selves otherwise they wouldn't be able to float around the country at taxpayers expense - Max Jackwitz
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    12:00pm
    Rubbish it would be even easier for the OAP as they could just pay everything electronically. I do and it is set and forget.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    12:13pm
    We all do that, OG - it's just a matter of PERSONAL CHOICE. You have heard of that, haven't you? We are not slaves to this State yet, my son - nor will we ever be.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:56pm
    No I'm not as I'm not collecting welfare.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:14pm
    Then you're not paying your way and most likely haven't fully done so for a long time - and you ARE the problem.

    thanks again for coming...
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    10:44pm
    Rubbish I am more than paying my way and support many others as well. Now if I didn't that would be a problem.
    Anonymous
    3rd Feb 2017
    5:05pm
    Keep lying to yourself, OG. The rest of us can see right through you.
    LiveItUp
    5th Feb 2017
    7:32am
    If OG doesn't get any welfare and pays tax he is giving back more than he fakes out of the system. Most people his age just take.
    Pablo
    31st Jan 2017
    12:03pm
    Yes, ALL benefits for EVERYONE (not just Aboriginals) should be paid on a card that won't allow them to use the money for drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and gambling! This is NOT just an Aboriginal problem, it is a problem for EVERYONE on benefits!
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    12:13pm
    Why, Pablo, is it a 'problem' for everyone? You'll need more than rhetoric to come up with that, my son.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    12:14pm
    If some old bastard wants to sit in the club and drink a beer and play the pokies after he/she's paid their bills - how is it any business of yours or anyone else's?

    Some of you people truly live in the most bizarre Mindland....
    Pablo
    31st Jan 2017
    12:20pm
    TREBOR, just walk around Sydney City any time of the day, but particularly at night, as well as the railway stations and you will see the extent of the problem. And I assume you don't see or know of anyone who spends their dole/single mothers benefit on grog, drugs, cigarettes and then cries poor mouth at the local Salvos or Vinnies to get more handouts. I see this all the time and it makes me so angry that the taxes I pay go towards crap like this!
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    12:21pm
    That's what the 20% cash is for Trebour. Should be more than ample.

    How do they know who is responsible and who is not? They don't so protect everyone.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:14pm
    There are countless reasons for homeless people etc... most often it is some kind of mental issue. I recall clearly when working in Sydney CBD years ago, there was a regular who walked around in filthy bare feet muttering... harmless but lost...

    The few who spend ALL their dole money on that stuff would soon starve to death.... and never forget how much taxes they pay when they buy a flagon or a pack of ciggies.... or even stoke the pokies....

    Ban all those cash cows for government and the economy would crash.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:15pm
    You haven't explained how and why the denizens of the streets mean there is some problem for everyone.......
    Triss
    31st Jan 2017
    9:53pm
    Listen, Pablo, there are many people who don't drink, smoke, take drugs or gamble but regardless of that, in my opinion, anyone who needs to make a section of the community into second class citizens in order to feel good about themselves needs an intesive course of therapy.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    10:10pm
    Triss it certainly doesn't make me feel good seeing those women in their PJ waiting at ATMs in the wee hours of the morning to get their welfare money so that they or their kids don't get hurt. These women probably don't take drugs, drink or gamble as all they are doing is looking after their own welfare and that of their kids.

    How many OAPs are subjected to elder abuse for their money too? I've seen too much of it myself to know that cash to these people doesn't help them as it should.

    Yes the people are second class citizens that are bullied by others for the welfare they receive. Cash is the problem here and no amount of therapy will help them keep it.
    The Other Judith
    31st Jan 2017
    10:42pm
    Old Geezer, you really should get out more into the real world instead of watching women in their nightclothes on TV.
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:42am
    That Judith unfortunately is the real world in the wee hours of the morning. May I suggest you get out of your warm cosy bed in the middle of winter and check it out for yourself.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:27am
    Any single one of you got proof that there are all these women standing at ATMs under standover pulling their brass to buy drugs?

    And what does that have to do with the overwhelmingly vast majority of Social Security recipients?

    If you know of people being stood over for their money - report it and do something.

    Again, OG - how do you KNOW these women are getting money for those reasons you state?

    I spent many years doing security runs in every area of Sydney - and NEVER ONCE SAW ANY SUCH THING.
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    3:36pm
    Trebor you were simply not looking then. You see them pull up and get out of the passenger aside of the car and check their balance every few minutes until they get the cash. Then it is handed over to them male driver.

    Police know all about it and you see them drive by and something park up the road and watch the proceedings. There is nothing they can do without the victim coming forward and lodging a complaint.

    Don't start my on all those who put all their welfare through the pokies. We all know about these people.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:32pm
    So let's now create a tribe of women and kids who are bashed daily because hubby can't get money for grog, or kids who are bashed daily because Mum can't get money for her pokie habit. You people are fools. You have no idea what life is like for the people the cards are being forced on, and no concept of how to resolve social problems, much less economic problems.

    The single WORST thing anyone can do to someone who has a bad habit is take away their dignity and self-control. The single surest recipe for social disaster - and quite possibly civil war, in fact - is to strip large numbers of people of their dignity and control over their spending choices.

    Stop being so vile and judgmental, you self-serving egomaniacs, and show some respect for others. Nobody could be more vile, cruel and disgusting than someone who supported denying decent, responsible pensioners control over their lives and the respect they deserve in old age.
    The Other Judith
    1st Feb 2017
    5:52pm
    Bonny, I worked at the coal face of domestic violence for nearly 12 years so I do have a clue. This will do nothing to help decrease domestic violence in MOST communities. The places it has been trialled until now have had general support from community leaders, and I assume most of the rest of population, in fairly small communities. Totally different situation to what the result would be in the rest of Australia without community support in place.

    This is a pointless policy to make the lives of already stressed people even more stressful. We should be making life difficult for the businesses which are not paying tax rather than beating up the poor who are in their situation because of poor life choices, exploitation, mental illness, health problems and in some cases limited life opportunities because of poor parenting or poor education. Stop being so mean because it will make you unhappy.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    6:08pm
    Well said, Judith. Good to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about.
    LiveItUp
    5th Feb 2017
    7:37am
    How would taki g away the problem cash make people's lives more stressful? There is no cash available to be bashed up for.

    Why would I be unhappy or mean? Makes no sense to ne at all.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    12:16pm
    Seems to me from certain of the Usual suspect comments here - we need a Pensioners Rights Association... and Party associated with it.....
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    12:42pm
    Welfare is given for a purpose and it is obvious that that purpose is not being adhered to so strings need to be attached to it. The welfare card is a good idea.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:18pm
    Social Security is paid under certain conditions as a right in a case of need such as unemployment, and as a right once retired at a certain age with a certain level of assets.

    What people do with their own money once they receive it is none of the business of government*, and if a very few choose to abuse their own money, that in no way indicates any 'need' to foist this petty tyranny on all.

    Which raises the question:- if the Indigenous communities involved in this 'trial' are actually benefiting - nobody has yet given details of how this is so.... and as a matter of ethics and morals, should these communities be subjected to this tyranny, rather than given the chance through consultation and real assistance to resolve their issues for themselves?

    But I suppose Blacks are just children, and we need to continue The White Man's Burden, and then extend it to Social Security recipients as well.

    Why not just gulag the lot and send them the the gas house?
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    1:46pm
    Many whites are like children too Trebor.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    2:09pm
    So that means we NEED them to be controlled?

    Fascist.....
    Oliva
    31st Jan 2017
    2:44pm
    I don't think so Old Geezer-I don't think there is any accountability requirement-I think you can do what you like with the money.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:59pm
    That's the problem Oliva people are not spending their welfare on the purpose to which it has been given. Drawing it all out and giving it all up to save a beating is just not acceptable.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:20pm
    How does an 'accountant' get to see all these things on CCTV? Today Tonight/A Current Affair?

    If you know of people being stood over for their Social Security money - NAME THEM to the police for action.

    Again - such a miniscule percentage of Social Security recipients in that situation does not even make a single stroke towards imposing tyranny on all....

    I'm glad they rejected you for jury duty, OG and co - I dread to think what you'd be like there....
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    9:32pm
    I don't work as an accountant for anyone but myself. Being a respected member of my community I get shown and told all sorts of things.

    I have never been rejected for jury duty and have even served on a jury a couple of times.

    One was a case where a person told fibs to Centrelink and I still can't work how they got away with so much for so long. I'm talking hundreds of thousands over more than 15 years. No wonder they are now checking ATO records and who owns what assets.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:39am
    One sparrow fart doth not endemic social security rorting make.

    Easy solution - pay all the pension, no questions asked, and tax all income and perks over and above that, and make all government pensions subject to the same tests.... story ends.

    So security people using cameras on streets and banks breach their code for you, OG? And you have nothing better to do with your time than go around making such contacts and looking over CCTV footage that is protected, private and personal and governed by rules?

    For some years my daughter has been a supervisor in one of those centres.... like accessing government records without proper right, the sentence for releasing information is up to two years in prison.... I signed the official secrets act many years ago.... and we all know (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) that 'insiders' always get shown and told stuff they have no right to....

    I had occasion, some years back, to call in the troops over leaks of service records from central records to 'insiders' and 'mates', who then launched campaigns against other ex-service people. Look at some of the nonsense that gets around - the President of the NSW RSL was once vilified as being 'just a cook'.... one branch of the VVAA was vilified as 'full of liars'.... all to satisfy the delusions of a few cited as 'public servants, police officers and veterans'.... the majority not even of the ex-Service community and NONE of whom, as a group or as individuals without legal permission, has any right to any of that information. Any 'public servant' working with those records who reveals any could be sent down for two years and sacked from their job, and the same applies to any recipient of any such information - without court approval - handed out.

    Be careful of what you speak.
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    1:35pm
    Trebor so I'm not allowed to view my own CCTV footage. First time I have heard that one.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:39pm
    OG, who said ''welfare'' isn't being used as it should be? You are not GOD. And you haven't surveyed millions of pensioners to find out what they spend on and why. You have no idea what you are on about. The vast majority of pensioners - especially age pensioners - ARE responsible. They are perfectly capable of managing their affairs.

    It's very easy to make stupid ill-informed assumptions about matters about which you know absolutely NOTHING. When you've walked in the shoes of those impacted by these vile proposals, you learn things are not always as they appear. Here's just one example. A man I know spends quite a bit on alcohol. He is classified, medically, as addicted. So give him a ''cashless welfare card''? Why? He drinks to deal with psychological problems and physical pain. His doctor says his choices are drugs or alcohol, and the latter is less damaging. Now, take away his alcohol, past experience shows he becomes violent and destructive. But let him have his quota every day, he participates in society in a productive and responsible way and his family are happy.

    You people who support bashing victims of social failure make far too many wild assumptions and generalizations. You are too judgmental. And you look for quick fixes that are, in fact, recipes for disaster. Go and live among these people and learn who they are and why they do what they do and you'll change your ideas in a hurry. (Well, some will. Brainless stubborn narcissists won't! Sadly, it takes intelligence to make open-minded assessments of information and come to valid conclusions.)
    KSS
    31st Jan 2017
    12:59pm
    How easy is it to get people going on this site! The only suggestion that the cashless welfare card be rolled out to pensioners came from Old Geezer. And off you go on your indignant rants with unsubstantiated accusations about how recipients would manage to 'get round the system' and immediate defence of your own spending habits. I don't have one of these cards BUT I seriously doubt that taxi drivers would be on the list of 'permitted' retailers.

    I should not be surprised any more that no matter how positive a report, contributors always manage to come-up with negatives to it. This is as far fetched as the Greens quoted in the article that restricting alcohol, gambling and drug use (all well known and accepted long standing causes of domestic violence) actually leads to more domestic violence! Its almost as if the Greens are willing it to be so rather than taking the indicators that there may be a positive outcome of this trial.

    How about everyone just take a deep breath, settle down and wait on the final report before mustering every ounce of indignation as you get on your high horse about something that may never happen.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:22pm
    You forgot Gauleiter Pablo - he wants the cash gulag for the peasants as well...

    A fine rant there, KSS - but where do you actually stand on this issue? I have no intention of justifying my spending habits - off to buy some beer later - it's hot as hell here today and I've done my bit already - but I have every intention of refusing to accept the nonsense from petty backyard Fascists here who imagine everyone but they should be subjected to strict rules over their own money.

    I've told you before - OG is a Labor plant set to stir things up - nothing else could possibly explain his often whimsical musings on the application of a Fascist regime here to control every aspect of everyone's life but those of the chosen. By doing this he is actually fostering revolt against this LNP government.

    Hunger Games for real... not a great literary effort, but an interesting story..
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:36am
    Yes taxi drivers will accept it with the half price vouchers a lot of people now have. If they don't ubber will and that just would not do. Taxi industry has had it too good for too long si it's great to see same competition. Charging 10% plus in fees to use a credit card is exploitation.
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:39am
    Trebor didn't OG say he doesn't vote. So how could he be aligned with any party as he is not helping either by not voting.

    OG represents thise of us who support themselves and are sick of whinging OAPs.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:42am
    Just another law-breaker, Bonny......... OG self-admits if he is Australian and doesn't vote.

    We should simply put all your retirement funds into the communal pot and dole it out to all equally..... meantime the OAP community has every right to complain when they are hounded daily by stupid government.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:54am
    BTW - How would OG have been on a couple of juries if he is not on the electoral roll to vote?

    You see - the trouble with making up stories is that you need to know your facts first and then be consistent... if you continually come up with plugs to fill the gaps that are evident, people begin to KNOW when they are being sold a line.

    Epic fail, people.... you missed it. Perhaps OG and Bonny don't exist in reality?

    That should get you going.
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    3:24pm
    I am on the electoral roll to vote as anyone who has a driver's licence is automatically enrolled to vote now. I have been wondering what happens when you lose your licence do they take you off the electoral role?

    I simply turn up have my name crossed off and put the blank paper in the box as I can't see the point of voting is such a rigged system.

    I don't make up stories at all so have no gaps to fill. No idea what Bonny does.
    Oliva
    31st Jan 2017
    1:12pm
    Best way to rid the folks of their welfare mentality is to STOP WELFARE-replace it with WORK-same money different product. While there is welfare people will bludge. Before welfare people worked-they did not have the welfare option. If we must have welfare then make it a hand up not a hand out strategy.
    Pablo
    31st Jan 2017
    1:20pm
    Oliva, very well said!
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:25pm
    You two first - you draw no money from Pension, Unemployment Benefits, super as subsidised, or any other source until such time as you've completed the work requirement. That'll fix your age of entitlement mentality.

    Thanks for coming..... maybe Pol Pot had a good idea sending the middle and upper classes out to work the rice paddies and learn the value of a day's work. Pity, like Adolph and his mates, he got the actual nuts and bolts wrong...... but as a path towards rectifying social disparity he was on the right track.
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:31am
    Good idea Oliva. However from my experience such people will just turn up but will not do anything unless your give them extra incentive. You can lead a horse to ware but you can't make him drink.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:44am
    Yes - get the eighty year old ladies to sweep the snow from the streets clad in a thin cotton skirt..... have them walk ten miles every day to pick up sticks for the cooking fire ... have the ninety year old men out digging ditches and tending the cotton fields in the hot sun....

    You people are insane - no wonder your kind are first to the guillotines....
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:26pm
    Trebor I have no trouble doing all those things even at my age.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:59pm
    If you want to solve our social problems, you have to first tackle the warped notion that the objective of welfare should be to keep people down. Social workers are walking away from their jobs because they realize our system is NOT designed to help, but to ensure people can't get up. We don't offer a ''hand up''. We offer an incentive to stay down and give up trying.

    We need a pension and social security system that helps rather than stripping people of their dignity and punishing every effort to improve their circumstances.

    The WORST thing this nation can do if it wants to resolve social or economic problems is to force a cashless welfare card on decent people. The ONLY benefit will be to inflate the already over-sized egos of arrogant narcissistic egomaniacs.
    The Other Judith
    31st Jan 2017
    1:18pm
    More money for Turnbull's bank friends for fees related to this oppressive system. I can guarantee an increase in crime if this cashless card is introduced around Australia. Make sure your insurance is up to date.

    Why do people think it is reasonable for other people to be controlled? If you encourage government to increase control of other people then you risk being next on the list. Frogs in warm water.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:28pm
    Only if it's OTHER people, Judith - they themselves are sacrosanct, same as politicians, and all of them suffer a Napoleonic kind of Messiah Complex since they and only they have the answers for everyone else.

    I've seen that in schizophrenics and drug addicts and even among psychologists ... the sort of smoke dreams that come from sitting around and sharing a joint.. maaaaan....
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    1:49pm
    No more money than what they already get by putting cash into bank accounts. It would probably be cheaper as they would have so many accounts to worry about going into the red.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    2:11pm
    As long as it's THEIR choice, OG - and not just some stupid Fascist imposition.

    Like discussion of the Middle East fighting - easy answer - if they want to kill one another - pay them to do so.... encourage them into the grave.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:51pm
    Nay ew live in a nanny state already. Just can't have people hurting themselves can we?
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:45am
    You and Bonny would have nothing without being protected by that State..... if it were not for that State you'd be fending off robbers every day for you cash and goods.....

    Get a grip, man...
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:11pm
    I think I could fend off anyone myself and have done so in the past. No state protected me back then.

    I'm not the old who needs tog et a grip.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    6:04pm
    You would have NOTHING if not for a capitalist society in which half the population is unfairly exploited for the benefit of the privileged, OG, so stop pretending superiority and be grateful to the hard working exploited and abused who gave you what you have. And support paying them now what they deserve for having suffered unfair dealing and gross injustice for decades - AND treating them with the respect they deserve.
    Old Geezer
    5th Feb 2017
    8:48pm
    I wouldn't want to live in any other society but a capitalist one Rainey. It is not prefect but it's far superior than anything else.
    Charlie
    31st Jan 2017
    1:26pm
    It said in this article, "The Greens are concerned that the drop in alcohol and drug use could lead to increased instances of domestic violence"

    God save us before we drown in academic bullshit.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    1:34pm
    I found that one amazing, too....
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    1:50pm
    It wouldn't surprise me to see a drop in alcohol and drugs has the opposite effect.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:51pm
    Never lived with an alcoholic, have you? Taking away the grog results in major increases in violence. I suspect drug addicts react the same way to deprivation.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    4:14pm
    Rainey unfortunately the answer is yes to both drug addicts and alcoholics. It is awful scary trying to keep a drug addict who has overdosed alive until help arrives those minutes seem like hours.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    5:08pm
    Nobody who has lived with a genuine alcoholic would be stupid enough to suggest depriving them of alcohol will reduce violence. NOBODY.
    BillF2
    31st Jan 2017
    2:16pm
    Of course the cashless welfare card is a success. Would a government which is intent on micro-managing the population present it as anything less? They cannot say that it is a means of control, and that we are rapidly becoming a totalitarian state. Honesty will never help them achieve their objective. Anyway, cash is untraceable, so it has to be eliminated.
    Nobody seems to realise that they are not only controlling the spending habits of the cards' recipients, they are also controlling, by preference, the businesses at which the cards can be used. With these obvious 'successes' it will be rolled out in more and more places, and extended beyond welfare, with the aim of creating a cashless, and more easily controlled, society. And then, to reduce the cost of issuing cards, they will tattoo your forehead or your palm with a code - maybe '666'.
    What a wonderful brave new world our government is creating!
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:00pm
    We are heading for a cashless society whether we like it or not. Hence the rise of bitcoin and it's mates.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    3:22pm
    Getting close to a cashless economy - and a class-less society - that's for sure....
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    6:10pm
    Cashless, yes. Classless, no. The gap between rich and poor is growing daily, and it's a recipe for social and economic disaster - ESPECIALLY if you combine it with attacks on the dignity of the poor and their ability to decide their own destiny.
    Crafty
    31st Jan 2017
    2:43pm
    Oh my, you are really going at it. When we retire the age pension will be approx $800 a week for husband and I. 20% is $160 a week leaving $640. Take into account we are on sewage and tank water so rates are low. Weekly costs; Rates $30, elect $30 (solar), food/other $200, petrol $100 (includes travelling), clothing $30, misc items/gifts (if you can get on card) $50. That's $440 a week. I may have possible missed something. It leaves me to think what I can or can't buy on the card with my balance of $200.
    BTW - not all blacks are alcoholics, drug addicts or abusive. A percentage of every race are the previous. These black communities need re-education to bring their self worth up, to be proud of who they are.
    To quote Oprah, "when we know better, we do better." I'm a white careleaver, forgotten Australian or what I used to be called 'good for nothin'.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    2:56pm
    Just use your card to spend the other $200 instead of cash as you do now.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    3:22pm
    Not going to use a card for my money - I'll spend it as I see fit.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:50pm
    No card no welfare. Sounds good to me.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:21pm
    My money into my account every fortnight - my card to use it.
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:28am
    OG is right it will be added to your welfare card and you will use that instead of your current card.

    If you don't like it then don't collect welfare.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:46am
    I don't collect welfare - I collect my Pension as an absolute right.

    Thanks for coming. If things get that bad, I'll just come looking for someone like you to get something from.... but I'd have to join the crowd....
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    10:13am
    If you collect the OAP you collect welfare.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:49pm
    If you take superannuation tax concessions and negative gearing tax benefits, family tax allowance, parental benefits, or any of the other myriad of handouts and concessions this government allows, you COLLECT WELFARE. Let's treat all everyone the same. Stop the discrimination by arrogant self-opinionated egomaniacs who think they are superior and show some respect for the good people in this society.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    6:58pm
    Rainey I don't collect any welfare but I do pay my taxes.
    Anonymous
    3rd Feb 2017
    5:10pm
    You collect WEALTHFARE, OG. Far more taxpayer-funded welfare than any pensioner receives. Just with nicer names.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Feb 2017
    6:44pm
    Ha ha Rainey I don't even get any wealthfare either so you have struck out on that one too. I pay taxes instead.
    Anonymous
    4th Feb 2017
    4:59pm
    You get wealthfare, OG, or you did for most of your life, otherwise you wouldn't be where you are now. It's just that the arrogant pigs who like to put others down are not capable of recognizing the benefits they enjoy and who creates those benefits, and are certainly not capable to gratitude that enables them to be truthful about receiving them. That would mean acknowledging that battlers ARE MORALLY ENTITLED to generous pensions, and a lot more besides, and the arrogant egotists could never agree with that. It would wound their pride.

    You can't have it both ways. You can't brag about how well off you are and your past profiteering and then claim you didn't get wealthfare.
    Old Geezer
    5th Feb 2017
    7:41pm
    Rainey you are trying to put me in that box where I simply don't fit again. Some of us folks that are self funded have not used the system as you seem to think. OK I've got a small amount in super like many others in our community but I would not have paid much more in tax if it had been in my own name. I haven't used negative gearing because I can't see the point of making a real loss even if it is a bit smaller due to getting a bit back in tax. I certainly haven't got any welfare as I don't even have a Centrelink customer number.

    So enlighten me as to where I have received any wealthfare as I can't find any in my books. Some of us got to where we are by playing the system fairly.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    3:29pm
    Mind you - if we put politicians on a limited card for their expenses, it might just curb their desire to fly to London for a quick look at how to fix homelessness... that's a new low in travel rorts if you ask me.

    Five minutes on the phone or the internet would help your out there, Morrison.....
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    3:49pm
    They have already been given a card for their expenses.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    3:51pm
    Yes - without a limit....
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    4:01pm
    There are conditions on which they can spend it which is not so with welfare. They are not allowed to use it for gambling or prostitutes for example.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    7:57pm
    But that card is on top of their daily cashout and their travel and so forth - and the expenditure on it needs only to be approved by those who have no wish to upset the gravy train in case they miss their share. It's not on the same planet as dictating that they will have X amount for their general and genuine expenses and y amount for their personal stuff, whatever that may be.

    Give one of those overpaid fools, who do nothing for us.. I mean 'government doesn't create jobs' etc (so why are we paying them?) $200 a fortnight and they'd die of thirst at the bar...
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:26am
    Trebor I suggest you do some research into pollies allowances etc and how they are taxed as it is no way as good as you believe it to be.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:47am
    You don't read too good, do you, Bonny?
    dougie
    31st Jan 2017
    4:42pm
    Some people will waste whatever is given to them others will cherish it and save from it.Who am I or you or anyone else the person to tell them that their lifestyle is wrong.

    The only person with this right is the person who gives them the money. That person he or she, must then have the wisdom of Solomon to decide what is right and what is wrong.

    All I ask is that when the person or persons decide that they will treat the funds supplied as they see fit, that they will not come back for more. That they will not ask their friends or family or indeed the Government for funds to lay their body to rest. You or I cannot ask for more.

    I do know that my family will not have to pay this final departure tax and that there will be a little left over to celebrate our lives.

    Thank you for the pension and the peace of mind that it has given my wife and I and thank you for family and friends who will feel sorrow at our departure, but who will have enjoyed our friendship and company over the years. I can ask no more.
    Oliva
    31st Jan 2017
    5:39pm
    I like your talk Dougie
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    6:19pm
    So it's OK for people on welfare to spend their welfare money on drugs, alcohol and gambling and then ask charities for food and accommodation? I don't think so.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:03pm
    In the case of Social Security payments, there is NO proviso that you WILL spend it in accordance with any laid-down rules... nor should there be.

    If governments respective in this country don't want to leave a 'departure tax' for future generations, they need to get off their arses and start developing solid infrastructure in this country, soaking up the unemployed who will inevitably be in the position of full pension on retirement.

    I've laid it all out before - governments have boxed themselves into a corner through poor policy making, including 'privatisation' which they STILL persist in despite its absolute failure to produce the goods, poor social policy that excluded many from careers that would see them retire with something, poor industrial relations management that ensured that many would be laid off in their late forties/early fifties for any reason at all including spite - thus guaranteeing a never-ending imposition on Social Security - and leaving those 'governments' with no alternatives other than to borrow (as the LNP is doing massively right now) or robbing its poorest people nigh unto death, since it lacks the balls and the wits to take on 'the big boys'.

    New party needed.
    dougie
    1st Feb 2017
    10:59am
    Old Geezer,
    Did I not say "as long as they do not come back for a second bite". This of course means in any way. We each have a right to live our life as we see fit. Those who do not conform, well that is their choice. The non conformity can be of many things, but it is a choice.
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:08pm
    Yes we all have the right to live our lives as we choose but we also have a right to make sure those vulnerable in our community are protected and with welfare being paid in cash they are not.
    dougie
    1st Feb 2017
    2:19pm
    Old Geezer,
    You are right, we all have a right to live our lives as we wish.

    However I nor you nor anyone else have a right to tell anyone what to do.
    We do have a responsibility if someone asks for help in making these decisions to give them all of the help and guidance that we can and that they are willing to accept. In the end the final decision is theirs.
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    3:30pm
    That's the point dougie it is not their decision. The decision is all about protecting myself and my kids which is more important than money. So the money gets virtually taken off them and then they have to ask charities for help. Ever wondered why charities never had out cash but pay bills and give out vouchers? Now you know why. Government should never hand out cash either.

    So as it doesn't change anything for lots of welfare receivers then a welfare card is the way to go as the vulnerable are protected by not be able to get cash.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:44pm
    You have no idea what you are on about, OG. You don't protect ANYONE by denying someone dignity, respect, and the right to control their own affairs. All you do is create a stuffed-up society in which misery and crime prevails. It inflates the fat egos of the privileged to force the poorer folk to beg, but in the end it will result in social chaos and possibly civil war, and I sincerely hope folk like you get the first bullets.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    4:26pm
    Yes but you do protect their dignity, respect by making it harder for those controlling partners to take all their welfare money and then they have to beg at charities so that they and their kids don't starve and freeze.
    Anonymous
    3rd Feb 2017
    5:07pm
    What rubbish! You have no idea, OG. Controlling partners will control by violence and psychological abuse when they can't get what they want because of idiotic restrictions imposed by foolish do-gooders who live in an idealistic world and don't understand reality.
    Oliva
    31st Jan 2017
    5:49pm
    The whole question of welfare and pensions can be wrapped up in a set wage for everyone throughout their adult life. Each year it could be adjusted up or down in line with the country's economic performance. Everyone gets it-everyone pays tax on it if their total income is at a taxable level and it needs to be age-related as well. Govt stole Welfare off the People. They must give it back to the people-social groups, churches, charities-its their job. There must be charitable groups for people with disabilities and people in need of food shelter advice help and safe haven.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    6:17pm
    So rich people get it and pay no tax as they have little income. Awesome idea.
    Oliva
    31st Jan 2017
    6:49pm
    Everyone gets it and everyone does a tax return and only "rich people"" will end up having to pay tax-I think taxable income starts round $18,000 pa In NZ folks on age pension can still work as much as they want. Their age pension adds to their taxable income.
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    6:58pm
    Rich people pay little if any tax now so they would be paying little tax on it. Wages earners pay tax on what they earn rich people pay tax on what's left after expenses.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:05pm
    I could swear you once said that the 'rich' paid most of the taxes...... now they don't... OK.....
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:42pm
    OG contradicts himself a hundred times a day, Trebor. He makes no sense. He has no idea what argument he wants to make. He just wants to be disagreeable and nasty. It gives him pleasure to pretend superiority, but in fact he's an ill-informed bigoted fool.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    4:23pm
    No OG does not contradict himself at all. He knows what he sees and tell it as he sees it. Nothing disagreeable or nasty about telling the truth. If he is such an old fool then why isn't he a real battler. After all a fool and his money are soon parted.

    That's right Rainey you makes little sense in you arguments.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    9:34pm
    No OG. Fools are not necessarily parted from their money in a society where fraud and theft is condoned and the most useless, dumb and deceitful seem to con their way in the highest paying positions or most lucrative businesses. As a friend's mother used to say, ''They applaud the biggest thieves and fraudsters and hang those who commit small petty crimes.''

    31st Jan 2017
    6:28pm
    all those comments wasted on what might be to come or not, just think about the funny side of it, can you image the faces of the counsel staff paying your rates with peas and potatoes, your driving license with a bag of carrots, your plumber with some soap, your carpenter with spaghetti, your dentist with toothpaste, your chemist with herbs, your doctor with lollies, hopefully you can use your card to buy cutlery, special knifes, just in case you have to go into the hospital, your chemist with herbs and what about the undertaker, would he accept the timber you bought with your card for your casket, easy for the religeous persons conducting the service, the water used to spray will come under groceries anyhow, what about your electricity bill, chillies or electric eels should do the job and as for your gasbill, plenty of onion and peasoup will keep them happy, the banks will be happy, will give them another reason to lay off staff as they don't need to worry about counting money as everybody will pay their credit cards and house loans with groceries, milk and honey, but then they will have to worry about who to sell it too in Australia as nobody in the rest of the world be interested as they all be in the same boat, reading the local papers it amazes me that Australians are more interested, there were even protest marches in our main cities, against a democratic elected leader in America, yet what is going on in front of our eyes here in Australia where we live and hope to bring up our families, our Country, Australia, is being thrown to the wolves without so much as a whimper by those same people. just ask yourself when will Australia become No. 1!!!!!!!!
    Old Geezer
    31st Jan 2017
    6:31pm
    That already happens around here. We all work on a barter system.
    TREBOR
    31st Jan 2017
    8:06pm
    Having a host of kids to run the numbers works better....
    FEDUP
    1st Feb 2017
    4:10am
    I have the following taken out of my Bank Account.
    Rates, Electricity, Phone, Computer, Funeral, Home and Contents Insurance, Water and EBay, when I use it. Much more than my 20% the Government would leave me. Imagine paying workers with a Cashless card, the Unions would storm Government House. Bet the Politicians would refuse a Cashless Card for their perks and rorts, let alone their pensions.
    GIVE ME CASH.
    LiveItUp
    1st Feb 2017
    8:24am
    The cashless card is a bank account with restrictions so it will pay all your bills like your bank account. So it the same as changing your bank account details. If you are paying workers cash and not been given a tax invoice you are commiting fraud by aiding the black economy. Unions will have enough sense not to storm parliament house as to do so will expose their black economy practices.

    So if you are doing the right thing with your wekfare then you will see little if any difference to what you do now. It will shortly be rolled out to all those on welfare.

    The politicans already have a cashless card for their expenses.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:48am
    Politicians have a credit card - not the same thing. You are playing squid's ink.
    Old Geezer
    1st Feb 2017
    12:24pm
    Yes it is a credit card with restrictions.
    Anonymous
    1st Feb 2017
    5:17pm
    Rubbish, Bonny. The card is NOT accepted by many businesses. It increases living costs by forcing people to trade with selected businesses. Some people in remote areas are having to travel hundreds of kms to find a business that will accept the card. There are major problems attached to it. But the worst problem is that it destroys people's dignity. Without self-respect, nobody can improve their behaviour. Taking away the dignity of needy people guarantees a social disaster of mammoth proportions.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    2:17pm
    Well Rainey if there is no cash lots of businesses will soon accept it or starve themselves.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    5:25pm
    There will be cash for some time yet, OG, and cash businesses, and while ever cash exists, pensioners should have cash to spend. And nobody should EVER suffer the denigration and insult of being marked ''ínferior'' by being forced to use a card that brands them incapable of managing their money, unless it has been conclusively evidenced that they ARE incapable (as an individual, not as a member of a group) and the restriction is just one part of a well-structured remedial program.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    6:56pm
    Rainey isn't that what credit cards do now as it shows people buying things especially groceries are living beyond their means by having to pay for them with credit? Most people use credit the wrong way otherwise credit cars would have disappeared long ago. No different to using a welfare card at all.
    Anonymous
    3rd Feb 2017
    5:09pm
    VERY VERY VERY DIFFERENT, OG. And only an arrogant old fool would suggest otherwise. Firstly, plenty of people don't use credit cards for credit. They use them as a convenience and pay the full balance monthly. But more to the point, credit cards don't identify someone as a welfare recipient judged (rightly or wrongly) to be financially incompetent. They don't result in denigration. They don't destroy people's self-respect. And they don't prevent you putting more than 20% of your income for a week in the bank in cash for future needs.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Feb 2017
    6:48pm
    It is certainly no different when each card they pull out of their wallet gets declined. I paid for a person groceries a few weeks ago after this had happened to them.
    Anonymous
    4th Feb 2017
    5:03pm
    No wonder you are so negative about people, OG. You apparently choose to associate only with the tiny minority of drop-kick no-hopers. Consistent with narcissism. Narcissists seek out people (or invent them!) who make them feel superior. They never ever notice the millions who are responsible, hard working, decent, honest, and capable - and way better than the narcissist who closes his eyes to them because their existence threatens his fragile ego.
    Old Geezer
    5th Feb 2017
    8:53pm
    So I have now done the wrong thing because I helped out a stranger by paying for their groceries. Well I'll admit it was to my benefit to do so as if not I would have been inconvenienced and have lost some of my precious time while they sorted it all out. I guess I value my time more than the cost of that stranger's groceries so it's very selfish of me to have done this act of kindness.
    TREBOR
    1st Feb 2017
    9:14am
    Well - to start a new day off on this charade....

    The communities involved a re very isolated, the whole thing was tried in co-ordination and with approval of 'elders' (wonder how much gun to the head was involved? Take it or leave it, Jacky-Jacky), and so far no solid figures etc have come out to show that it is a 'success', but the entire discussion has been let down because (trumpets and drums) Alan Tudge says it is a success.

    Apart from that - thus far nobody has offered one solid reason why it should be extended to the entire body of Social Security recipients.... as if that was even under discussion... but I love a good argument.....

    1st Feb 2017
    5:13pm
    I think it's a dangerous concept. I understand the motivation and I suspect there are cases where it's a good thing, but in general it destroys people's incentive and self-respect and that's a major problem. If used, it should be very narrowly and specifically targeted and combined with counselling and careful monitoring of any problems that arise as a result of its imposition.

    Do-gooders and judgmental people will always latch onto the seemingly ''quick fix'' of bashing victims of social failure. If you take the time to try and understand the problems victims of social failure face day to day and the reasons why they engage in self-destructive conduct, you realize that taking away their dignity is likely to be the final nail in their coffin - the blow that ensures they will never escape their situation.

    Our society is stuffed because of ''quick fixes'' by people who have no understanding of the causes of problems. It's time for a major change in direction. Until we move away from quick fixes and start treating people with respect, we will never resolve the increasing social and economic problems. They ARE increasing - because those posing ''solutions'' have got it very, very wrong.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    1:58pm
    None of that works Rainey and the problem is cash. Take away the cash and problem solved.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    5:16pm
    None of what works, OG? I was a talking about what DOESN'T work. Nobody has ever tried moving away from quick fixes and treating people with respect, so nobody can say it doesn't work. In fact, it's been proven again and again and again, and every psychologist will agree, that the first requirement to helping ANYONE with an addiction or irresponsible lifestyle problem is to help them build self-respect and confidence in their ability to do better. The number one cause of addictions, mental illness and mental incapacity is a belief in one's own unworthiness. Just ask kids raised in institutions where they were constantly called ''the scum of the earth'' and ''human trash''. Fifty years later, they still apologize for being ''no good'', and feel undeserving of the rewards of responsible living, so they abuse their bodies and their money, believing that delivers what they deserve.

    You are not just ignorant. You are hideously egocentric, cruel and nasty. You have no respect for anyone and no decency.

    The problem isn't ''cash'' at all''. It's society. And depriving people of dignity and control of their affairs is society's way of ensuring that they stay down and their problems worsen.

    When you build people up and treat them with courtesy and respect, they respond by behaving better. That's been the message to parents for years, and it applies equally when dealing with adults. Respect and courtesy makes for a better world. Abuse and put downs lead to higher crime rates, greater dependency on welfare, and more addictions and mental illness. Those are facts, and everyone with a brain knows them to be true, OG, Only vile narcissistic egomaniacs want to keep putting good people down the way you do. You are really the most appallingly horrible creature I have ever encountered.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    6:53pm
    So I should give back my Australia Day reward for service to the community then Rainey.
    Anonymous
    3rd Feb 2017
    5:19pm
    If anyone was so ill-informed as to nominate you, then YES YES YES, OG. You don't serve the community. Nobody who serves the community would make the vile and ignorant remarks you make, put good people down constantly merely for claiming well-earned retirement benefits, and support stealing the hard earned assets of hard working Australians just because they were so underpaid and exploited - or challenged by personal or family crisis - that they couldn't save $1 million before turning 65.
    Fairness
    1st Feb 2017
    9:20pm
    Yet another form of discrimination devised by Millionaires to denigrate pensioners, majority of whom have worked AND PAID TAXES without benefit of loopholes being devised currently, and in an environment where the "haves" were happy to help the "have nots".
    To try to "Name and Shame" the underprivileged is abhorrent. Most of us would have grown up believing in "fair play" with a compassionate approach to less fortunate.
    There should exist an entitlement for a fair pension without any stigma attached.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    4:20pm
    Fairness all people over pension age are now automatically assumed to be OAPs so they are already being discriminated against. I get discounts without even asking now so I just say thankyou. To do otherwise would only cause them embarrassment. So get used to it you are already being named and shamed as a welfare recipient. That stigma already exists whether you like it or not.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    5:20pm
    What CRAP, OG! There really is no end to your irrational, illogical, ill-informed, bigoted garbage, is there! Firstly, OAP's are not looked down on or discriminated against. Most businesses respect them and treat them very well. Secondly, the majority offering discounts ASK for a pension card and those who can't produce one are denied. Try getting free registration or council rates discounts in NSW without a pension card. Income is irrelevant, as is holding a Low Income Senior's Card. Most specialists in my area won't bulk bill anyone not on a pension.

    You are just so full of BS!
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    6:49pm
    Well Rainey I get heaps of discounts without anyone asking for my card. Since I don't have a car or pay council rates in my own name it is irrelevant. I don't even hold a low income senior's card. All my specialists bulk bill me.

    Rainey I don't think you really have any idea of how things work in reality. Theory one thing but reality is another.
    Anonymous
    2nd Feb 2017
    7:46pm
    og stop b.s on this site, I know how things work and as for giving back your so beloved dream of having an australian award for services to the community, pull the other leg and you be able to play dixyland on it, as for being in dreamland you have to take the cake, to state that being a pensioner is a stigma shows your ineptitude to what was once a badge of honour, it gave us respect for people who had worked all their life and had come to the few years left to enjoy life, their grand children etc. yet here we have persons the likes of og, who by their own words have cheated the system and to top it of are proud of that achievement and now are attempting to stamp these workers into obliteration. May be I was lucky, the pension does not affect me, but at least I can hold my head up high for not trampling upon those people who deserve to finish their life without being called, og's words bludgers.
    Old Geezer
    2nd Feb 2017
    11:42pm
    Yes it was a shock to me too to receive the Australia Day reward.

    Even I am perceived and treated as being an OAP even though I am not. Well I can see the stigma attached to such a label even if others can't. I have never deliberately cheated the system but sometimes you have to go with the flow otherwise you embarrass people in front of their peers. No one likes that happening to them. No it does not worry me in the least to be thought of as being a welfare bludger if anything it amuses me that people have such narrow minds and that is all they see.

    I have never been lucky but have achieved everything through hard work and good management. You can't say getting cancer twice has much luck in it all. No lottery wins for me either maybe that's because I never waste money on such bad investments.

    I will continue to say what I think not what I think people want me to say as to do that then that is really BS.
    Anonymous
    3rd Feb 2017
    5:17pm
    There you go again, OG... me me me me me. You not only have no idea what life is like for others, you don't care.

    Most specialists DO NOT BULK BILL anyone not on a pension. Most Australian retirees DO pay council rates and/or car registrations, and those denied pensions cop a massive penalty for having to do so.

    For once, I agree with every word heemskerk wrote. He's nailed it. You need to learn some respect for people who work hard all their lives and have EARNED a dignified retirement, free from the vile abuse of pigs who use disgusting terms like ''welfare bludger'''.

    You are a WEALTHFARE bludger, and a vile and arrogant one at that, and that's a far worse thing to be. Give me pensioners for friends any day. They are much nicer, more respectful, and far more likely to have made a valid contribution to society than anyone who denigrates them.
    Old Geezer
    3rd Feb 2017
    6:46pm
    Gee I see we have been in the dictionary again looking for words that fail once again to describe me. Thanks Rainey I had my laughter medicine for today now.
    jojay
    5th Feb 2017
    4:58pm
    very good news, just hope it is accepted in other areas as well, would be so much better for the health and care of the children
    Anonymous
    6th Feb 2017
    9:28pm
    just reading the dumbest replies about pensioners to this issue, og included, I live in a area were the government is trying out this issue, I challenge the likes of og and jojah to go to a supermarket in this area and see those, receiving these cards attempting to sell them to other customers at a reduced price for cash, for jojah to think it be better for the health and care of the children that is just a pie in the sky, it is time for some of these contributors to start living in the real world we in Australia are now in, og calls pensioners bludgers, jojah thinks it is better for pensioners to receive those cards as it will help the grandchildren, what it will mean in real terms is less food, more drugs, more alcohol, more abusing the females, the kids etc this is what is happening in, not just in our indigenous communities, yet here we are some contributors selling this as a feature for the existence of these cards.
    og favourite saying, pensions are welfare, everybody falls for that, just ignore og and post your believes regardless of this so called receiver of an australian award, what more can he come up to blow his own trumpet, next he be going to london to be knighted, bad luck his/her knees need replacing yet he is on the waiting list as he/she has no private medical insurance, og you are an absolute dreamer, using these columns to attemp to impress those who struggle and live on the pension, just keep on believing, be mr. big and keep looking forward to your fortnightly handout of the government, as I have stated before, I might have been lucky of not having to rely on the pension, I still believe we should assist every Australian reaching the pension age to assist them of making their life worth living
    Old Geezer
    7th Feb 2017
    5:25pm
    Haven't we heard all this before when they wanted to put people's welfare into bank accounts? Sounds very familiar to me.
    Fairness
    6th Feb 2017
    1:25am
    Cashless Welfare Card another form of discrimination by the "haves" for the have "nots". and for millionaires and v wealthy to tell less fortunate how they should be living on a day to day basis is the lowest. So many people suffer a variety of misfortunes, just as the now wealthy have often been the beneficiaries of "windfalls". To treat the lower income groups as somewhat less "worthy" is so demeaning and unfair.It clearly precludes many from making choices in their day to day living.The only ones who think this system has merit are businesses in areas with little opposition.
    Old Geezer
    7th Feb 2017
    5:27pm
    If a business accepts a debit or credit card it will be able to accept these cards. I don't even carry cash as I use plastic for everything now. It felt strange using cash when I went out to the island on a cruise.
    Anonymous
    7th Feb 2017
    7:59pm
    o.g with other words you went to tasmania or is that where you live and you went to the mainland?
    Old Geezer
    7th Feb 2017
    8:19pm
    No I went out to some islands in the Pacific. Didn't go to Tassie this year but wish I had done with this awful hot weather. Business is too busy at present for me to be away.

    4th Mar 2017
    8:39am
    The Liberal National Party (‘LNP’) Welfare Card programme is really a LNP rort for the benefit of the Liberal and National Parties and their members, donors and supporters. Indue Pty Ltd, the corporation awarded the contract to manage the Welfare Card programme and to operate its underlying systems, is a corporation owned by Liberal and National Party members and that donates to various Liberal and National Party branches around Australia.
    professori_au
    31st Mar 2017
    11:29am
    I am retired and am one of those who use electronic banking. However, I still have the need to have hard cash to purchase incidental issues or even purchase personal items and having a cashless society means "big brother" has access to all of my private and personal data, my spending patterns, etc. etc. I do see some need where people have little understanding of budgets and where poor budget control leads to member becoming victims. Allegations that drug taking, drinking are base causes of these problems and why the government wants to control where and who has money to spend. Rubbish! A person I knew many years ago was a solid unionist yet voted liberal Why? because he had been conditioned to believe only the rich knew how to handle money. I pointed out to him that many of the greatest rogues in society came from the middle to high end of society. sure they know how to manipulate and manage other people's money but mostly in the long term they come undone because they do not really understand finances. I would be totally against the cashless society. Education is the most important thing. Yet our young people, while electronically savvy can barely hold a pen or pencil correctly. They cannot do even basic chores or fix basic repairs because they have never been taught and rely on the older generation to do these things. Part of the work I was involved before retirement was industry training and I was shocked at the level of education in these areas. Governments have "Mickey-moused" training where when they have finished training in some areas employers complain they know or have little understanding of their trade. I remember speaking with an apprentice one time and asked him did he know how to calculated gear ratios to make the lathe travel along the slides at a certain rate. The answer? I pull this lever and that lever and when I said that was not the question he informed me that it was additional training he had to do with his apprenticeship because it was no longer part of his trade training. Why not? When I was a lad a third year apprentice could do the calculations. What have we done to one of the best industrial training systems in the world Electronic and computers will not solve all of our needs. We still need people to use basic skills and knowledge.
    Fairness
    31st Mar 2017
    12:48pm
    We all contribute to the taxation system through indirect taxation as well as direct taxation,which obviously covers periods of Unemployment.e.g students as well as when in Employment, and in everyday purchases which attract tax.

    Our entitlement or otherwise to a pension depends on our financial situation at a particular point. With this in mind, any pension we receive should not be regarded as Welfare, as many will have already contributed way above what they subsequently receive!
    Regardless of whether we meet qualifications for a pension we will continue to pay indirect taxation as long as we live! Cashless welfare card a separate issue, devised by "the "haves" aimed at the "have nots" ... Those who indulge in tax evasion often end up tripping themselves up!!
    SuziJ
    9th Sep 2019
    11:56am
    What about those of us who don't drink alcohol or gamble? Why should we be 'pushed onto' the card just because of a majority in our society want to fritter away their benefits?

    I'll refuse to be put onto one of these cards if it comes to my area. I have a strict budget and can live quite well within my means without 'big brother' coming and saying that I have to go onto this system just because of a perceived idea that I'd be better off on the card.
    professori_au
    9th Sep 2019
    1:42pm
    SusiJ Please be careful making a statement ….just because of a majority in our society want to fritter away their benefits.... If you believe this is true then provide the evidence. There may be a few but to the majority I believe living on a pension of any sort is serious business, It is well below the poverty line and getting lower as the government does not match the increases with the cost of living. Please, please people do not make such comments without evidence or attack people you are unlikely to have knowledge of their circumstances and only rely on misinformation and media blurb to substantiate claims or justify a holier than thou view. Because you have never experienced this, you have been more fortunate than others. Many people have had good jobs and earnt a goo wage/salary and suddenly become unemployed for circumstances beyond their control. They may not have had sufficient years to gain assets or may have lost them due to unemployment. There are many reasons why people become unemployed and to make judgment based on no evidence or media comment is unjust. I once believed that Aussies had a philosophy of giving a "fella" a fair go. What is happening to it. A "me" culture seems to have developed where people are only interested in themselves and a drive to gain assets. Anybody who does not believe in that are unimportant. I hope you never have to experience a need for help.