7th Dec 2018
Is the Liberal brand damaged beyond repair?
Is the Liberal brand damaged beyond repair?

Former Liberal opposition leader Dr John Hewson is of the opinion that the Liberal brand is tarnished – perhaps beyond repair – unless the party does something about it, and soon.

“The Liberal Party is totally consumed by itself. It is an unfortunate combination of selfishness, ignorance and pure arrogance to ignore what has happened to the standing of the party in the Longman and Wentworth byelections, and the Victorian State Election and, even worse, to deny any lessons, simply offering spurious and fallacious excuses blaming everything and everybody else,” wrote Dr Hewson for The Age.

And he may be right. Certainly, many typical Liberal voters have chosen to select independent candidates in recent elections and, heaven forbid, even Labor candidates.

If the Victorian State Election could be considered the death knell for the state Liberal Party if not for the Federal Liberals. At the very least, it was a harsh wake-up call.

But, then again, maybe Liberal politicians don’t care. Their party has had it pretty good lately. Incumbents have held seats and the Federal Libs still somehow sealed up the last two federal elections.

Maybe the Liberals have rested on their laurels for too long and lost interest in actually performing their national duties. Party veterans seem more concerned about protecting their jobs, defending potentially conflicting business interests and keeping their bums in those cushy parliamentary seats. This ‘malaise’ has done no favours for the party. And Dr Hewson certainly seems to think so.

“The reality is that the Liberal brand is damaged. The party is now characterised by disunity and disloyalty, by tribalism, not by principle or policy but by personal interests – not even party interests and certainly not the national interest,” wrote Dr Hewson.

“The Government is increasingly presenting as a directionless rabble, a perception compounded daily by knee-jerk reactions by Scott Morrison and others as questions and pressures arise. Traditional Liberal voters are the forgotten people.”

So, we want to know what you think of the Liberal ‘brand’. Has it been damaged beyond repair? Or has the whole system suffered as a result of constant infighting, bickering and instability? Why not take part in our Friday Flash Poll and let us, and them, know what you really feel about the current state of democracy?

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And of course, we welcome your opinion in the comments below.





    COMMENTS

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    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:22am
    "....Liberal politicians don’t care."

    We all need to get it. The Liberal Party keeps being put into office by media barons like Murdoch and Stokes. Anybody who watches 7 News would be fully aware that the grooming and election started in earnest when these two media barons installed Morrison into the top job and the almost nightly one sided propaganda has been relentless with nobody calling these media pariahs to account. They call that democracy!

    Lets be quite clear about this. Liberal Party MPs are quite smug about being reelected again. As the little weasel Christopher Pyne said with an ear to ear grin after Abbott was put into office "there is a reason the LNP has been in office for 16 out of the last 20 years". Read my lips!
    Retired Knowall
    7th Dec 2018
    10:39am
    The Media Barons don't put the Liberals Back In...it's the Voters..It's called Democracy.
    You keep pushing the Labor Line as most Labor Trolls do, one day you will wake up and realise Both Major Parties are Toxic.
    We need more Independents to represent us not the Big End of town or the Union Heavies.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    10:40am
    I wish YLC would block this labor troll
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    10:44am
    Mick is right. The media determines who will govern. Murdoch has even declared - on occasion - who he wants to govern, then watch the newspapers. They prove bias accordingly. Sure, "'Knowall'' (who clearly doesn't!), the voters elect - BASED ON THE LIES THE MEDIA SELLS TO THEM.
    Sen.Cit.89
    7th Dec 2018
    11:20am
    Mick,
    You're spouting your Labor propaganda again. Having little else to do, I watch a lot of news, forums etc and do not see the Liberal Party being boosted, quite the opposite.
    I recall your comments on this column some time ago when you were advising all to vote independent. You often made sense to me, lately, you've become a Labor Troll.
    Adrianus
    7th Dec 2018
    12:03pm
    So, Rainey, if you think the Liberal Party brand is damaged are you blaming the media for this?
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2018
    12:54pm
    Where's the proof, MICK? Sorry mate, you keep going on with your hypotheses, which I'm sure you honestly believe, but you have never shown us the proof of your inflammatory statements.

    As to your comment,OnlyGenuineRainey, "BASED ON THE LIES THE MEDIA SELLS TO THEM" again there is no proof to support your statement. Can you please provide the lies that have been told?
    Retired Knowall
    7th Dec 2018
    12:58pm
    So OGR will wait to see what is written in the press before you Vote?
    Very intelligent.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    1:16pm
    Adrianus, the LNP has to accept the majority of the blame, because if they didn't do STUPID things, the media would have less to fuel damaging reports - but yes, the media is partly to blame.

    Old Man, just one example of the press telling lies is the reports on Labor's franking credits proposal. Nearly all reports by media outlets favouring Labor have failed to report that their proposal is based on totally outdated 2014-5 statistics. They've failed to call Shorten or Bowen on lies that the DI refund is a 'gift' and that the policy will only hurt the wealthy.
    They've failed to truthfully note that Shorten's claim that 53% of those who collect cash refunds have pension-phase super accounts over $2.4 million (if they did, they would be paying tax and keeping their credits). Need I go on.
    There are copious examples of media lies if you care to take an objective view.

    Retired Knowall, NO I do not wait to see what's in the press before voting - but MOST Australians are influenced by the media.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:41pm
    Mick Murdoch has said he now supports a Labor government so that puts an end to your argument.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:05pm
    OM - you are a joke. You always demand proof from everybody else whilst refusing to offer any on your own outlandish statements. I've asked 3 times now from memory. You have no credibility.

    Retired Knowall - democracy? You would have no idea. A monopoly is never a democracy and media propaganda to get the result you want is what dictators do. Oh yes...you support a dictatorship.
    From what I see from the usual suspects I can see my post has brought the wasps out the attack. You can run but you can't hide. The truth is the truth no matter how much you contort it to fit the Party line.
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2018
    3:11pm
    OK, MICK, I have provided proof in the past of my claims but either I have posted them too late and you didn't read them or you read them and ignored them. I will repost what I posted in response to your ridiculous claim a few days ago that the Coalition had increased Australia's debt to $600B. I realise it's off topic but I feel it is necessary to refute another of your unsupported allegations. I also note that you have declined to offer proof once more but have chosen to attack the messenger.

    "MICK, I have pointed out your untruth about the debt before and it pains me to do it time after time. You appear to be a slow learner. Yes, Morrison increased the ceiling of future debt to $600B to allow for future possible debts but that is not the figure that is owed. The figure owed by government as at July this year is $341.0B.

    To point out another of your untruths, Labor left a debt as at September 2013 of $174.577B so the Coalition has not doubled the debt, close but no cigar. I might also point out that if you include the balance that Labor took over of $24.2B in credit, Labor spent $198.777B whilst in office. Your masters who subscribe to the theory that if you tell a lie often enough that it becomes the truth would be proud of you.

    Please don't slip into your predictable union bully boy mode and just refute my figures if you can. If you can't refute the figures then it would be expected that you will refrain from telling the untruth about Australia's debt.

    "https://theconversation.com/factcheck-has-australias-net-debt-doubled-under-the-current-government-100819"
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:33pm
    I think Mick has a fair point about propaganda here, and that is something we do not want - and this entire vitriolic argument is meaningless to the subject.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:44pm
    OM - you NEVER provide proof when challenged. That's what YOU demand to tie people into knots. When the 'proof' is given you end the discussion. Always the same.

    Your claim about debt is the normal lie you peddle to make the government appear good, but you doctor the books.
    Even the ATO (put in a tax return to see for yourself) lists the current debt way above what you claim albeit less than what I read.

    I'll await your response complete with verifiable facts and figures. You have none! You never have.
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2018
    3:49pm
    Aha MICK, you never read anyone else's posts do you, just a quick glance and start the personal attack. If you had read the post you would have seen the link on the bottom that gives the proof.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:26pm
    Missed the last line. Here's a quote from your link:

    "The Liberals used to bang on about a so-called “budget emergency” and a “debt and deficit disaster”, but you don’t hear a peep from them anymore.

    Not only has net debt doubled on the Liberals’ watch, but gross debt has crashed through half-a-trillion dollars for the first time ever, and their own budget papers expect it to remain well above half-a-trillion dollars every year for the next decade."

    Tells a familiar story.

    The ATO lists our debt at $515 billion. My call of $600 billion comes from a site I can no longer recall but the figure stuck. Yes I know how you'll play that one. Of course you DID doctor the figures.

    Just out of interest sake here is another link which debunks your continued claim of the ABC being biased:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8vgokb/australia_media_bias_chart/

    Yes.....YOUR media outlets are the only bias in the country! These are the main (large) media outlets. How strange.
    fearlessfly
    7th Dec 2018
    10:29am
    What's really dissapointing to see in this poll is the high number of morons (44%) who state they prefer the Liberal Party. I cannot believe there are so many numbskulls out there who still cling to the notion that these "Liberal" assholes are going to rescue them from the abyss! Totally flabbergasting!
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    10:37am
    Why wud anyone chose a face like that for an avatar

    Oh yes - a labor supporter would
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    10:51am
    So which party would you suggest, Fearlessfly? The mob that want to wipe out retirement for all but the filthy rich; overtax low income earners who invest in shares; and transfer all the proceeds of hard work and saving by battlers to the rich - while CLAIMING to be on the side of battlers?

    Only a total fool or a green-eyed selfish moron would vote Labor given their franking credit policy that will give huge benefits to high income earners and the wealth, to pensioners who TRIPLE DIP (regardless of their wealth - which in some cases is huge) and overtax struggling self-funded retirees and low income workers at 30% on incomes below the tax threshold - just because they invest in shares. And then lies to justify it's policy by quoting outdated 2014-5 statistics and telling blatant lies. Your precious Labor Party is a bunch of lying, thieving hypocrites engaged in elder abuse. They raised the retirement age. They introduced the pension means test. And now they are determined to completely abolish all incentives to save for retirement and force hundreds of thousands more onto pensions - and dim-witted pensioners think that is somehow going to help them (because the poor suckers fell for a cheap bribe!). What happens when the aged pension becomes completely unaffordable because hundreds of thousands more put their hand out? IT GETS CUT OF COURSE YOU IDIOTS.

    Shorten is going to CUT THE AGED PENSION. Oh, sure, he'll lie and even maybe raise it in the short term, but there's only ONE reason why anyone would want to make self-funded retirement the exclusive province of the very rich - and that's to MAKE ALL RETIREES POORER. Wake up dunces - before it's too late.

    BTW. I used to be a Labor supporter. I certainly would never vote Liberal.
    Sen.Cit.89
    7th Dec 2018
    11:28am
    OGR,
    You missed out that it was Labor (Keating) that introduced the Deeming on our savings.
    I agree with the rest of your comment.
    I a too a Union member in my working life would never ever again vote Labor the enemy of the working class with propaganda that fools the working class.
    Cowboy Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    11:55am
    Yes, Keating and Hawke brought in the deeming but they skewed the whole system with their insistence of keeping the principal real estate out of the asset test. Some of us would rather have more spending money in the bank than a luxury home.
    Too much unproductive money is being pushed into family homes instead of being spent by oldies and thus contributing to the economy. Asset and means test of 1.5 mio and include the residence. Would like a modest house and plenty of holiday money.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    1:24pm
    So it seems that EVERY change that has disadvantaged less well-to-do retirees, with the sole exception of the most reason change to the assets test, was the work of the ALP. And pensioners continue to believe the ALP is their champion????? Thanks to the ALP, pensioners live with fear and stress, punished for saving, and punished for owning a modest home, forced to work to 67, and forced to keep a close eye on their bank balance and either spend on things they don't really want or suffer income less every time it increases a little.

    If that's being on the side of pensioners, I'd hate to see a party that's against them!
    john
    7th Dec 2018
    2:07pm
    Well fearless fly calling others morons and blindly following the media along the lines of The Liberals are finished, makes you sound like a bit of a moron yourself.
    I'd be thinking deeply about the alternative and about the fact that Bill Shorten is a deal making untrustworthy traitor to his own union kind, and wants to be PM, vote for him at your own peril.
    But don't be a fool either, look clearly at what the other side offers in policy.

    The point you make about morons is the fact that the LNP have no choice now , but to reload and re establish itself, if that means breaking the party up, or if it means for Morrison to actually become a leader and a standover leader at that, to bring strict discipline to the parliamentary ranks.
    I think Australians are an easily led bunch. We don't always think for our selves, and we listen too intently to media rubbish and biased reporting , and allow our National broadcaster to politically go one way, a little left, and add the occasional Right winger as a quota.
    Creating all sorts of things like truth, half truth then bleeding total lies.

    But Morrison has to answer some questions by hitting home at his own.

    By that I mean he must remove the bad eggs , or the non performers like those who will not investigate and punish the people responsible for the water thievery along the Murray Darling, And that includes Nats and Libs?

    He needs to "take control" build policies , and do so much more than just announcing a surplus, you see the average Aussie hasn't got a clue what paying off the debt with surplus means , or a clue as to who caused the giant debt , apparently we all did.

    He needs to put up properly costed and concreted in policies that we can see will happen, and he has to commit himself to all those policies and also every one of his loyal Liberal and National followers, he can win the election but he has a hell of a job.

    I'll Clarify one thing, I guess we are reasonably anonymous on his forum , so I I'll say I spent my life an ALP voter, I spent nearly 30 years as an operational active union rep and and member, , and my last few years before retiring. I saw some strange things and heard some strange things that go inside .
    We have to have unions , BUT FOR THE RANK AND FILE, not for the welfare of officials.

    Who are not always "on the ball" and Mr Shorten is one of them , and he has turned me off my own side of politics and I have listened to other arguments from the Liberal side and sometimes they sound more sensible than the fanatical dribble the ALP sometimes throws out at the public.
    There is good and bad on both sides, one major party has to lead, no more mass independent voting.
    None of the governments in the last handful of years has been able to govern. You can even go back to the the Democrats destroying/ castrating the GST, UNDER HOWARD, IF EVERYTHING WAS INSIDE THE GST BUCKET , THE GOVERNMENTS WOULD HAVE HAD PILES OF MONEY TO COMMIT TO THE PROMISES, they got stymied.

    Now it is just stupidity and sheepish Aussie voters thinking they have a way to change things. THEY DON'T BY VOTING IN INDEPENDENTS!

    That leads only to a way of 1 +2 +5 or 8 people cutting governments legs off from the cross bench. They do it all the time. Even 1 can kill something , governments have to be able to govern!

    BE DAMNED CAREFUL WHO YOU THINK IS THE BEST BET, BECAUSE ARROGANT BILL IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO GO. Maybe Bill should step aside. Not Albo either, a new face.

    So I believe we'll see some substantial thinking on behalf of the major parties to stop kowtowing to minorities and do what the public, the Australian people want, and I mean Australians of all colours and religions and racial background, but you have to become one of us to be considered one of us. And therein lies a gigantic bridge to cross.

    Read Planet Jackson everyone, that'll open your eyes, it knocked me for six!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:12pm
    What has the LNP done since in power other than run the debt up to almost $600 billion, conduct Royal Commissions to attack Labor and attempt to build coal fired power stations. And then they did what they said they never do: knife 2 sitting prime ministers.
    You about have this right Fearlessly. The current batch are a group of filth wasting taxpayer money and dragging our country into a hole.
    Any body who votes Liberal is either brain dead or a party troll. Plenty of the latter being paid to post on this website.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:24pm
    Mick the LNP now has the economy going well thanks to it's steady manner in which it has finally got rid of Labor's forward spending obligations. Now it is on track to get rid of that debt but no people just want Labor in to clock up more debt instead. No wonder we will have a deep recession under a Labor government. Labor's lollies are going to have a bitter after taste indeed.
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2018
    3:13pm
    MICK, I have pointed out your untruth about the debt before and it pains me to do it time after time. You appear to be a slow learner. Yes, Morrison increased the ceiling of future debt to $600B to allow for future possible debts but that is not the figure that is owed. The figure owed by government as at July this year is $341.0B.

    To point out another of your untruths, Labor left a debt as at September 2013 of $174.577B so the Coalition has not doubled the debt, close but no cigar. I might also point out that if you include the balance that Labor took over of $24.2B in credit, Labor spent $198.777B whilst in office. Your masters who subscribe to the theory that if you tell a lie often enough that it becomes the truth would be proud of you.

    Please don't slip into your predictable union bully boy mode and just refute my figures if you can. If you can't refute the figures then it would be expected that you will refrain from telling the untruth about Australia's debt.

    "https://theconversation.com/factcheck-has-australias-net-debt-doubled-under-the-current-government-100819
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:35pm
    This economy is going well? Well.. there is a god and he just arrived on a unicorn.....

    You need to get out more, OG .......... when you are a big hunk of the dirty Third World, the beggars are some of the scenery....
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:45pm
    OM - read the previous post and provide your corroborating 'evidence'. Been waiting for that for some time. Never provided of course.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:45pm
    Trebor there are no beggars around where I live. Most people give stuff away instead. Just took some boxes of produce down to a charity earlier today for people to use over Christmas.
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2018
    3:50pm
    Aha MICK, you never read anyone else's posts do you, just a quick glance and start the personal attack. If you had read the post you would have seen the link on the bottom that gives the proof.
    Bes
    7th Dec 2018
    4:48pm
    HOW DID WE GET INTO THIS CRAZY SITUATION?
    When the Liberal/Nationals Coalition showed their true colours you got angry and elected the ALP/Greens.
    When the ALP/GREENS showed their true colours, you got angry and elected the Liberal/Nationals Coalition.
    It has ALWAYS been ONE or the OTHER, and with an electorate full of complacency they TAKE US FOR GRANTED!

    They talk of emissions, the Paris Accord and Global Warming and COAL.
    While Mother Nature’s volcano’s spew out the biggest emissions on the planet as it still evolves!
    They never invited Mother Nature to the Paris meeting. (no government subsidies?)
    They sign up to (International) agreements that most of the manufacturing countries on the planet have not signed.
    THEY ARE OPENLY TRADING AUSTRALIA AWAY TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES!

    200,000 REFUGEES/IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR to take YOUR places in our health system and housing lists. And guess who gets priority??

    WE ARE DYING IN OUR STREETS and being attacked in our homes and they tell us to be vigilant, while it costs a FORTUNE to keep up the surveillance on people THEY brought into our country!
    They brought with them their religions and traditions and laughed at us and tried to make US change and OUR politicians allowed it.

    The Green Party actually acts as advocate for them and do far more for THEIR cause than they actually commit to Australia while the Australian taxpayer pays the bills.

    Australian PENSIONERS are now termed as being on benefit’s and a drain on the economy! After working and paying tax for all Government Services including foreign aid during their working lives!

    When a new or other Party suggests to you that NEITHER (major) Party is looking out for YOUR best interests ..you say they can’t be trusted and it would be crazy to vote for a new party!
    BUT the real definition of CRAZY is doing the same thing OVER and OVER again
    And hoping for a different RESULT!

    BUT some of us still have our PRIDE.
    WE HAVE A VOTE so be confident enough to vote for your rights!
    WE want our country back along with our traditions and we still have the most important thing in all the world. A Democracy! (But only just)

    But do not forget, you get WHO you vote for BUT not necessarily WHAT you believe in and want for your Grandchildren.
    READ THE POLICIES AND DON’T JUST LISTEN TO THE NEWS GRABS!

    WAKE UP AUSTRALIA!
    Diamond Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    4:56pm
    Too true Fearlessfly
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    5:06pm
    You Labor voters are well and truly outnumbered here by the results of the survey.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    6:26pm
    Then my point is made, OG - the beggars ARE some of the scenery.......
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:28am
    There will be lots more beggars under Labor, Trebor. But that's what they want. More beggars - because beggars are more inclined to vote Labor. More pensioners, because pensioners are more likely to vote Labor. Destroy the middle class, because they are more likely to vote LNP. Ignore the rich. They mostly vote LNP anyway, unless they are Labor or Green politicians or bureaucrats and profit from pretence. So Labor brings in policy that doesn't hurt the wealthy and doesn't hurt pensioners, but wipes out the upper working class and middle class battlers.

    And the morons who vote Labor are too dumb or blinded by envy to see what the real game is. They actually believe the very OBVIOUS LIE that it's about taxing the rich. If it were, the TAX WOULD HIT THE RICH, DUNCES, NOT LEAVE THEM TO KEEP ENJOYING THEIR TAX BENEFIT WHILE ROBBING LOW INCOME EARNERS.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    10:33am
    LNP have had their problems but still a darn sight better for Australia than that other mob.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Dec 2018
    1:03pm
    Lothario, it reminds me of a similar situation, "If you were neck deep in sewage and someone spat at you....Would You Duck"?
    The point is there is a practical alternative, make your vote count..Vote Independent, drain the swamp...or you can maintain the Status Quo and keep on whinging.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:43pm
    Ha ha you have two choices Labor or Liberals so voting for anyone else makes no difference.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:14pm
    Ha ha ha. Incredible.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:11pm
    So Mick you have only just found out. Goodness me some people certainly do have blinkers on.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:41pm
    Voting for someone else will eventually make a difference.... I can promise the voter nothing but blood, sweat and tears until the lights come on all over Australia once again.. and at an affordable cost.... never in the field of human conflict has so much trouble been owed by so many to so few.... we deal here not with instrumentalities of men and women, but with instrumentalities of good and evil, a situation from which only good men and women can deliver us... so let us so gird ourselves for the struggle ahead that should the Voter Empire last a thousand years, they shall say that THIS was Their Finest Hour!

    (well... Winston did get a little overblown at times, you know, but seriously)....
    Knows-a-lot
    7th Dec 2018
    4:43pm
    The Lieberal trolls are out in force today.
    Diamond Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    4:58pm
    Lothario, what are you on? Must be a hallucination of ssome description!!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:21pm
    Diamond Jim - its the drugs they feed the Liberal Party trolls. Makes them stark raving bonkers.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:39am
    Then the ALP leaders must be taking a stronger version of the same drugs.
    ex PS
    9th Dec 2018
    9:09am
    You don't fix a bad government by telling them they are doing a good job and re electing them. You do get their attention by kicking them away from the trough, governments of all persuasions should be in fear of being voted out for under performing, the focus should not be in getting in but in doing a good job and staying in on that basis.
    Misty
    9th Dec 2018
    11:51pm
    Well Lothario the latest poll shows most Aussies polled do not agree with you, Old Man, OG, Adrianus, Knows-a-lot, as the numbers are Labor 55%, Coalition 45%, not changed now for how many polls and if this keeps up no way will the LNP be re elected.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Dec 2018
    1:02pm
    God help us with that many fools in the world. But then, there isn't a choice is there. We are faced with the devil or the deep blue sea. The intelligent folk will vote independent or minor parties so that neither of the evils can prevail unchallenged.
    ex PS
    11th Dec 2018
    1:24pm
    OGR, I once thought that way, but unfortunately so many so called Independents turn out to be closet Liberals and vote with them on most occasions.
    Lothario
    11th Dec 2018
    1:37pm
    ExPS - your sad left bias is showing
    Let people think and vote for themselves . Don’t push your labor agenda here
    you are happy to ruin this country for the sake of power for Shorten and his union thugs
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    6:37pm
    Lothario not all unions are bad, they have gained a lot for the worker's conditions and wages in this country.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    10:01am
    Well, exPS, I'd rather a closet Lib than a closet Labor any day. Sorry, but the current ALP is POISON.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    10:42am
    Liberals have made a right mess of their party and the nation, but Labor is worse. We really have no valid alternatives. The two-party system has destroyed this country.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    10:45am
    A vote for labor is a vote to destroy middle class retirement lifestyle forever

    Only a vote for LNP can save you from Labor destroying / stealing modest self funded retirees savings
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    10:54am
    A vote for Labor is a vote to destroy RETIREMENT forever, Lothario - for all but the rich. Cutting the incomes of the middle class and upper working class is a step towards eventually cutting pensions - either by raising the retirement age drastically or reducing payments, tightening the means test, or cutting payments and benefits - OR ALL THREE!

    The poor silly suckers who fell for Shorten's cheap bribe are in for a shock when the economic impact of his franking credit policy is felt (if he ever gets it across the line, which is doubtful given the unfairness and his dishonesty!)

    On the other hand, a vote for the LNP is a vote for more economic destruction and transfer of wealth to the rich and powerful. Both parties actually have the same objective and both are working together to achieve it. This ''opposition'' thing is all a façade.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Dec 2018
    1:07pm
    Vote Independent, we need more People of the People. I am encouraged by the quality of the Independents in Parliament now, the latest Dr. Phelps will help keep the establishment honest. Labor or LNP will not be able to ride roughshod if we have a strong independent faction.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    1:18pm
    Independent or minor - and DEFINITELY NOT GREENS. Nor should you give preferences to either major party or the Greens.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:44pm
    Labor is getting way too cocky for my liking and could just lose the unlosable election.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:15pm
    A staff meeting of the Liberal Party?
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:19pm
    Unfortunately not Mick as they are now all on holidays.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:43pm
    Yes - all doing their bit and working so hard for the nation and people that they need three weeks off even before Christmas... what toilers...... Trojans they are the lot of them.... and give up so much to serve the public good that they need to be kept in luxury for life....
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:47pm
    Yes TREBOR. You can feel the election is close when you see the posts from a desperate government.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    4:28pm
    I see more posts for opportunist Labor diehards.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    8:34pm
    Name them, OG, and let's see the truth from their own comments over time.... are they 'Labor diehaqrds' por are they just normal folk whose ideas occasionally coincide with the rhetoric of a party? Same applies to LNP apparent diehards, too - they could be just genuine folk who take one point as their own but reject the entirety of the Party line....

    Then of course, the true diehards push a Party line continuously.....same old, same old...

    Even you, OG, for all your hard right rhetoric, occasionally stumble into Realityworld and are on the side of the angels somewhere in the centre ....... only the true flawed egotists here stick to one side..... but they're only school kids dressed up as adults anyway, whether they believe that tripe or not....
    HKW
    7th Dec 2018
    10:47am
    I believe that the entire Parliament need sacking!
    Australia has to start all over again or it'll be the END!
    None of the politicians is truly patriotic; they serve one Master that's above them all; the Federal Reserve Bank and other filthy rich corporations that rule the world. They are their lapdogs. They have been carefully selected and placed there to manage our countries on behalf of their Master. We have already been enslaved without even being aware of it. The nation need to wake up or suffer serious consequences.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    10:58am
    You got that right HKW. The whole lot need to go. Otherwise, we are doomed.
    Retired Knowall
    7th Dec 2018
    1:09pm
    At the risk of being boring, I'll say again...

    Vote Independent, we need more People of the People. I am encouraged by the quality of the Independents in Parliament now, the latest Dr. Phelps will help keep the establishment honest. Labor or LNP will not be able to ride roughshod if we have a strong independent faction.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    1:31pm
    I'm 100% on board here... I've been voting Independents for years now..
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:18pm
    HKW - I agree. If we had nothing but Independents and there were laws to make political donations a jailable offense (from both ends) then politicians would work in the national interest. As it stand the vested interests control the action with the right wing media determining who is elected.
    I'd call that a conspiracy to defraud the nation and the democracy we hear so much about.
    George
    7th Dec 2018
    8:39pm
    Best comment, HKW!
    Almost a waste of time & effort commenting on this topic (as many others), as this site is focused primarily on Liberal vs Labor die-hard types. BOTH Liberal & Labor (and also the Greens) are proven anti-people and anti-retirees in particular, hence ALL current sitting members need to be thrown OUT!

    Those who say we will get one or the other of these Majors clearly want to confuse the people into thinking they don't have power. Just to recall, I believe there are around 3.9 Million retirees! As none of these parties care a stuff for retirees, and ALL have stuffed them, it is quite simple really - ALL Retirees need to put the current seat-warmer LAST in preferences, while voting 1 & so on for whoever you wish (Independent, any Seniors-supporting parties such as SUPA, etc).

    Kicking out the current seat-warmer MUST be the priority, and this strategy WILL work if sufficient voters use their heads. Only then will we see a gradual change with future pollies thinking about what retirees want - such as Universal Age Pension for a start.
    Fred
    7th Dec 2018
    10:51am
    I think that 'first principles' still apply

    Labor puts people first.
    LNP put business first.

    Labor wants to do something about Climate change, Libs don't
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    10:57am
    You poor blind fool! Surely nobody is dumb enough to believe that? LNP puts the wealthy and it's own interests first. And Labor puts the wealthy and it's own interests first. Neither gives a damn about the people. Only a dunce believes that rot! If it were true, Labor wouldn't be robbing poor self-funded retirees and low income workers by overtaxing them, while giving massive tax benefits to the rich and high income earners and TRIPLE handouts to pensioners - regardless of their wealth and how they go about hiding it.
    inextratime
    7th Dec 2018
    11:20am
    Hi Fred, What will the labor party do about climate change and how much will it effect climate change ? i.e. how much will the temperature of the earth change after Labor's intervention ? I'm genuinely interested in your response because so far no-one else has been able to give an answer.
    I can remember when
    7th Dec 2018
    11:49am
    Hi inextratime (replying here because I can't reply to you). The reason no on e can give that answer to such a specific question because it's a huge simplification of an extremely complex issue with billions of variables. However, the principle of why a small player should act to create change is quite simple and demonstrated all over the world a billion times a day.

    Did one person build your house? Did one person grow all the food you eat and prepare it and deliver it to you? Did the driver of your bus build the bus and every component and mine the ores and refine them and drill the oil and make the fuel and plastic and so on?

    If one person cut the amount of time they spent driving by 5% there would be no change, but if we all did, there would be a difference. If we all say "well why should I change because it doesn't make a difference" then yes we won't. But what have we achieved as a society by not working together in large numbers?

    If all countries with emissions similar to Australia cut emissions then that's over 60% of emissions reduced. That makes a difference. If we all waited for everyone else to start first we'd all be living in caves, shivering and eating leaves.
    Adrianus
    7th Dec 2018
    12:16pm
    Fred you obviously noticed the Labor/Greens members crying when 1000 people died because of their policy to hand over immigration to people smugglers. I know they were real tears, but surely you've seen a child crying when they know they've done something wrong.
    inextratime
    7th Dec 2018
    12:53pm
    And Fred, I've got fairies at the bottom of my garden. I'll rephrase the question. If, and its a long bow, if every country in the world reduced its coal consumption by how many degrees would the temperature of the earth reduce ? Also how much carbon dioxide would be reduced in the atmosphere ?
    Retired Knowall
    7th Dec 2018
    1:10pm
    Didn't your mother tell you Fred, if you don't stop it you will go completely blind.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    1:33pm
    Labor want to do something for those who have their ear at the moment - i.e. everyone but White men... I wouldn't call that a government by any means... and take a look - the ACTU and Labor are now feminist hunting reserves due to Labor's sycophancy and utter stupidity, and all lovely little sinecures with gret perks, just like their LNP 'opponents'.

    Poor Fellow, My Country.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:21pm
    Hey TREBOR, do you notice the number of LNP trolls here today. Must be a sensitive topic and of course electioneering is in full swing.

    Fred - good post. Labor has its worts but you pointed out the truth that Labor cares about people first and foremost. This is what the rich abhor. They just want their tax cuts and workers to be squeezed into abject poverty. They are getting that from the current crooks in suits.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:27pm
    No I only noticed the Labor ones myself.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    3:12pm
    Fred wrote
    'Labor wants to do something about climate change"

    So how could Labor, or anyone else for that matter, stop climate changing which has been changing for millions of years?

    Oh you mean "climatechange®"? ... can't help you there buddy coz stopping this agenda would involve draining the swamp of all the greedy hangers-on pushing this scam.

    As you well know stopping criminal activity is nigh on impossible, coz huge sums of money are involved.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:45pm
    Yes - the topic of Liberal malfeasance and failure is sensitive - but the work is good and well paid....

    I promise that when Labrador hold the chaise electrique at the top, I will electrify them with my comments as much as I do this lot...
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:23pm
    Yes. They just can't accept that they are vomit to ordinary Australians. Things must be desperate when even the media barons cannot coerce opinion to get their government back into office.
    invisible sock
    7th Dec 2018
    10:52am
    "Incumbents have held seats and the Federal Libs still somehow sealed up the last two federal elections."
    There is no mystery about how they got into power the first time.
    As for what's wrong with the party, it's blindingly obvious that there is an elephant in the room.
    But, they keep stumbling along apparently unable to do anything about it.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:24pm
    Two names: Murdoch and Stokes.
    If you watch 7 News you'll see it. Grooming on steroids. Good old Scotty every other night whilst sad face Bill gets zip.
    It is no secret how Abbott and then again Turnbull got to be elected. In business this is called fraud. In politics it is called 'democracy' by the incumbent government. It is nothing of the sort.
    darcy
    7th Dec 2018
    11:02am
    With friends like Hewson, who needs enemies?
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:25pm
    What the current lot absolutely cannot stand is one of their own telling the truth.
    Hewson is correct! Good to see there is at least one decent LNP prime minister still in the country.
    George
    7th Dec 2018
    8:50pm
    Hewson is a loser, the one who lost the unloseable election to the worst Labor PM (Keating) this country ever had (he was never PM, MICK)! So, forget his garbage as a rule, as he is totally irrelevant. Any fool can also be correct, occasionally (as in this instance), but that is either by accident or based on his own personal agenda, not because he cares about the party or the country.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:26pm
    I respect the clear thought of the man and I recall he was never a low life in the gutter dirtbag like most of the current batch.
    I'll back ANY pollie who cares and makes good calls. Hewson is one of the good guys no matter how much you dislike him for ratting on the rats in government George. That's what decent Australians do to crooks and charlatans.
    George
    7th Dec 2018
    11:26pm
    No, MICK, I don't "..dislike him for ratting on the rats in government..". I certainly don't support that party, just like I don't support Labor either, hence am happy to give my independent opinion. I have always seen him to be a misfit, much like Turnbull, in the Liberal party who revels in the problems whenever that party has some. Basically, like Turnbull, as the party rejected him due to his abject failure (as noted before), he likes to take pot shots at the party. That doesn't make him "decent" just because you like his views this time.
    leigh308
    7th Dec 2018
    11:05am
    If only we could have mandatory honesty in party naming; then more of my fellow citizens would resolve to vote for Independants instead of the Coal Party and Union Party candidates...
    The vested interests have divested you of your democracy, are in the process of divesting you of your life savings but it is not true to say they don't care about you... that will come later when they have completely emptied your pockets and accounts...
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:27pm
    People only seem to notice when it is too late. I cannot believe that anybody other than paid posters could remotely believe that the current batch is not refuse waiting to be flushed. In my mind they are worthy of dictatorships in third world countries.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    6:28pm
    When you boil frogs correctly they don't notice it at all.......
    Ironman162
    7th Dec 2018
    11:05am
    Anything will be better than the government we have even a Republic!
    The two party preferred system of government model is basically past its use by date. Just turn on the TV on CH2 in the morning and see their stately behaviour for yourself
    Sen.Cit.89
    7th Dec 2018
    11:39am
    Take the time to read up on Switzerland government the way I read it is voters can sack representatives who do not do the job they were elected for.
    Plus, they have citizen-initiated referendums. Perhaps we could learn from them
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    1:40pm
    As a Republican, I see becoming a Republic with an PEP and some real checks and balances as being a first step towards democracy.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:29pm
    Well written senior.Cit.
    Australia would do well to go the way of Switzerland but the vested interest would not allow it.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:46pm
    My only argument with Switzerland ( land of many beautiful women, BTW) is its proportional representation/canton approach.... unfortunately that opens the door for Labrador's forced feminism and quotas for women and minorities...
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:49pm
    You only get women when you vote for women. Democracy at work. Yes...we have Sarah Hanson Young. God help a parliament loaded with such intelligence!
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    6:29pm
    ... but quotas destroy all that Mick..... I oppose quotas....
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:28pm
    Quotas are not democracy. In that respect Labor has done the wrong thing. So we have to live with airheads like Plibersek. At least she is much better than Hanson-Young who would have flunked the politician entrance test were there one.
    George
    7th Dec 2018
    11:43pm
    I agree "The two party preferred system of government model is basically past its use by date.". Maybe a Presidential system, will be better - at least we could directly elect a person whose policies will be clear and who the people ca directly vote for - such as in the US.

    I also support the idea of Citizen-iniated referendums on policy matters as wells to recall non-perfoming MPs.

    While the Liberals have crashed, there are too many issues with Labor as well including Quotas (anti-male), radical gender ideology promotion, "airheads like Plibersek" who will be a danger to Christian schools, nut-job like Bowen (will never help retirees as he supported the Assets test changes, and other stupid statements showing he is not up to the job), crazy Climate Change targets which will drive up power prices, stupid franking credits policies, dumb negative gearing changes (protecting current wealthy investors but limiting ability for first-home buyers to get new homes, instead of simply limiting negative gearing to just one property of a reasonable value), etc, etc. Remember they increased pension age to 67, and their next attack against retirees may be revealed only after they get elected.

    Only sensible option is to simply turf OUT all existing MPs who are NOT working for the people, especially for retirees. All retirees need to join in and put current MPs last.
    Ironman162
    7th Dec 2018
    11:09am
    The two party preferred system is past its use by date. Just take look on the TV in the mornings on CH2 and see what clowns they really are.
    In my view just about anything will be better than this Government even a Republic and to think I was totally apposed when they floated the idea back then!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:31pm
    The things wrong with the system is that one side in particular has lost all common decency and behaves like unaccountable savages because uncle Rupert and uncle Kerry will get them back in.
    What we have is thugs who sell out our country but are not able to be hauled before the courts and jailed for their fraud against the nation and the blatant Class War they are waging.
    Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    8:51pm
    There is no class war, as for who gets the laurel for corruption, I think that can be shared by both the parties, there are savages on both sides that are ruled by thugs, people have really short memories and that’s what politicians rely on, I don’t know what the burden of proof needs to be, but ex priministers who have been involved in corrupt behaviour are seldom brought to justice, rape accusations, pig farms, union officials misusing union funds, insider trading, and outright lies to get elected are endemic amongst both parties, I don’t think any of them can claim the moral high ground.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:33pm
    No Class War? Really?
    So you give the rich generous tax cuts they have no need of and that is not blatant class warfare?
    Then you funds the schools of the wealthy (which do not need funding) with significant money more than public schools and that is not blatant class warfare?
    Then you take away full time jobs from working Australians and replace them with casual work and that is not blatant class warfare?
    Then you ...................
    You sort of get the gist George. Tell me there is no class warfare indeed.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    10:37pm
    Tax cuts were for everyone
    Funding private schools frees up more resources and funding for public schools
    Parents pay a majority of the cost for private schools freeing up space in public schools
    Employment is at an all time high - close to full employment . Anyone who wants a full time job can find one . Many people these days prefer working part time
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:52am
    There IS class warfare, Mick. But Labor is supporting it, and widening the target. Labor is determined to destroy the middle class and upper working class, while feeding the rich just as generously as the LNP (though pretending otherwise!)

    Lothario is full of it. Tax cuts only ever benefit the wealthy. Funding private schools puts dollars in the pockets of those who can afford private schools. And employment IS NOT at an all-time high. The figures are fudged. Nearly 1/3rd of the population wants more work and can't get it.

    But the reality is that Labor will make it all MUCH MUCH WORSE. Their goals are almost identical, except that they include demolition of the middle class and upper working class as well.
    Jim
    8th Dec 2018
    5:33pm
    You have absolutely no idea what class warfare is, it’s a figment of socialist propaganda to create a divided population, divide and conquer, and it’s working for people who follow the socialist doctrine, as far as I am aware there is no class warfare in Australia, everything you have mentioned is related to those that have plenty, money has never had anything to do class with class warfare, or are you suggesting that footballers, movie stars, tennis players and business owners that have a few bob are all of a different class, you listen far to much to your idols in the Labor party, and yet you have always claimed that you have never claimed the pension, you must have a much bigger bank balance than a lot of pensioners, me included, so does your money put you in a different class to me, after all I am only working class and never managed to salt enough away to not be able to claim the pension. Does this mean you are one of these rich socialists? You might want to keep claiming the Labor lie on unemployment, but facts can’t be changed to perpetuate the Labor lie, the latest figures not from the government but from independent sources have put the increase in employment over the last few years at 800,000 Full time jobs, and approx 400,000 part time jobs, no doubt you will dispute the figures, but there will be nothing new in that, I am happy that you are obviously a class above me, you must have done something to deserve it, but it can’t have been from wages, you have always claimed you retired in your 50s after being sick of working for slave wages, you must tell us all your secret!
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    11:51pm
    Who are you replying too Jim?.
    inextratime
    7th Dec 2018
    11:16am
    If we implemented non compulsory voting like every other civilised country in the world. there would be a record no show at the election booths. The choice at the moment is between tweedle dee and tweedle dumb. Each party assumes it will get around 45% of the compulsory vote with preferences so they spend all their resources going after the 10% swinging minority. Get rid of compulsory voting then we may get some concern for the majority of the electorate.
    invisible sock
    7th Dec 2018
    11:45am
    Getting rid of compulsory voting would be playing right into the hands of the conservatives.
    Their next step would be to abolish voting altogether.
    inextratime
    7th Dec 2018
    12:58pm
    IS - So in countries that do not have compulsory voting only liberals get elected ? I'm not sure I follow that logic. In the words of PH please explain ?
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    1:43pm
    Incorrect - it's Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber..... Tony was ... ahhh... just the ... err... arrr.... icing. on...ummm.. the... errmm .. cake, but .... aaa.. sh1t... arrhh.. sh1t... happens...
    invisible sock
    7th Dec 2018
    2:17pm
    I was obviously talking about Australia, given that the article and the post were about Australian Politics.
    It is no secret that the LNP have raised the issue of NCV previously but abandoned it because they couldn't work out how to pull it off.
    Obama was envious of our CV because their current NCV favours the Republicans.
    Conservatives are much more responsible than Liberals when it comes to "doing their duty".
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:34pm
    Poor people are apathetic and generally do not vote if they do not have to. Removing compulsory voting will ensure that the LNP is the only government we ever have. A bad bad policy.
    What we need to do is switch the media off or introduce POLITICAL ANTI PROPAGANDA LAWS for the media punishable with a loss of license and/or shutting down the station. That would work ans the wealthy media barons would choose the lesser of two evils. Their main aim is making money, not losing it.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:49pm
    Poor people suffer lassitude and poor concentration from lack of solid sustenance... two lobsters in every pot is the Trebor Party policy...
    Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    8:41pm
    Unfortuanately Mick it would also shut down the left wing media, the guardian, Huffington post, and the independent would also be affected, and depending on which party was in the ABC might have to go, they are the most biased against whichever party is in. And I am not sure this site would be able to operate, most of the programs on tv are left leaning, take the project, please take the project. It’s often said the LNP is owned by big business, and Labor is owned by the unions, I don’t believe either statement is true, it’s more likely that some of the values are shared by the different parties, and the propaganda reflects those values.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:40pm
    You crack me up Jim. Watch 7, 9 or 10 News..for want of a better word. If you call that other than right wing propaganda then you are one of the pack on this website today.
    I find it amusing that you believe the ABC is biased. What you object to is that the ABC does not sanitise the discussion or promote the current government. Watch 7 News if you are genuine and tell me that this is not blatant abuse of the Press. Should be banned.
    For the record and to set you straight HERE IS THE BREAKDOWN OF WHERE THE MEDIA SITS:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8vgokb/australia_media_bias_chart/

    Of course you will choose to ignore the facts that the ABC sits centre whilst all of the right wing media sits right.....and likely far right if you take the News broadcasts in political context.
    Jim
    8th Dec 2018
    6:55am
    Read my comment Mick, I said that the ABC is biased against whichever party is in government, that’s their job, I did not say they are left wing, I do watch the news on most channels and it is you that must watch the news with a preconceived idea of the mythical bad men of the media, have a good look next time Mick, the project is the most left wing garbage on tv, the channel 7 news breaks on sunrise is blatantly anti government, and some of the guests that are regulars continually push the left wing agenda, I have never ever tried to insult you or anyone else on this site, even though your bias is so obvious I try to understand where people are coming from, you often make ridiculous socialist propaganda statements, like your usual we are in a class warfare statement, your last paragraph clearly shows that you didn’t read my comment, I have at no stage suggested that the ABC is left wing, in an early comment I said I didn’t think outside influences such as the media or the unions had as much impact as people think, I do not ignore the facts, nor do I make up facts to suit the argument, I have always held a balanced view of politics and politicians of every persuasion, I wouldn’t insult anyone who has a different opinion to me, nor would I be so conceited to believe that my opinion was the only one worth listening to.
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    11:56pm
    Well Sky News must be the most Right Wing biased News on TV at the moment, their Agenda program's panelists are mostly stacked with Lib/Nats as are their program hosts.
    ace
    7th Dec 2018
    11:18am
    Used to be a lib voter but since abbot & dutton no more ! SCUMO was one of them too & he would be the sacrifical lamb ! They all know their out by May so let him have it till then & then replace him when he loses with the one they really Want ! What is their problem with global warming ? & why is Coal so vital is it just Money ? I don't think I can vote for Bill but I like Tanya , So I will just have to find an independant ! we all need to take more interest in our local members & only vote for the ones we would like too see in power!!
    invisible sock
    7th Dec 2018
    11:49am
    "the one they really Want"

    I wonder who that might be?
    inextratime
    7th Dec 2018
    12:46pm
    The problem with global warming is that there is nothing Australia can do to change the temperature of the earth. However while we close down coal fired power stations we export millions of tons of coal to other countries who are building coal fired power stations like there is no tomorrow. Now if you cannot see the futility in that, then the king has a wonderful tailored suit.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:36pm
    Australia may not change the total emissions by much but they can influence what other countries do. Think solar panels. I recall we were leaders (thanks Kevin) and the rest of the developed world followed. Mission accomplished.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    2:56pm
    Mick wrote "Australia may not change the total emissions by much"

    The whole world cannot change CO2 emissions by even a little because over 97% of CO2 emissions come from ..... drumroll .... MOTHER NATURE!

    Nature emits about 227 Gtons CO2 per year while puny humanity emits about 5.5 Gtons per year.

    Obviously no matter what the "climatechange®" worriers do to "curb emissions" it is ultimately futile and a waste of precious resources, not to mention killing millions of the poorest people RIGHT NOW with energy poverty.

    But maybe killing off millions is part of the "globalwarming®" agenda for our Malthusian friends.

    Yep, energy poverty is the quickest, surest way to kill off millions in a hurry.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:51pm
    Nonsense. Here is my evidence:

    https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

    Where's yours coal troll? Spare me the paid scientists who fail the peer review test.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    6:35pm
    Mick wrote "Nonsense. Here is my evidence: https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/"

    That's evidence???? Of what???

    We’re currently in a CO2 STARVATION epoch

    CO2 is THE vital gas of life -- more than oxygen. All life is carbon. CO2 is clean, odorless and essential.
    And at 410 ppm it's still at starvation levels.

    Climate Basics: Nothing to Fear (recently #1 on Amazon).

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H91JJX6
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:43pm
    Ha ha ha. You crack me up coal man. So Amazon is your evidence?

    You clearly did not bother to open the link and go straight down to the CO2 graph. In case you are illiterate the graph shows that CO2 levels have never been as high as they currently are in 600,000 years. WAY ABOVE anything in history. By all means quote something which is non scientific but I'll stick with NASA as not even the trolls can debunk this science try as they do.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:53pm
    Oh yes.....you are flogging an Amozon book being marketed and written by J D Martin who is an ex lawyer and science fiction writer.
    You simply crack me up coal man. So a science fiction writer is now a climate expert. You guys must be really desperate to resort to this sort of claim. God help you.
    1984
    7th Dec 2018
    11:41pm
    Canada is getting rid of ALL it's coal fired plants.
    https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/videos/from-coal-to-solar/200772637506771/
    Every little bit helps & we need to lead by example
    Veritas
    7th Dec 2018
    11:37am
    Dr J Hewson is the disgusting in his diatribe of the Libs. Ever since he got the boot because he didn't understand how the gst worked (remember?) he has done nothing but slag off about his former party - talk about ghosts.
    However, I think both parties are on the nose. All Labour can do is come up with blatant lies and the Libs fall in. Neither worth a bumper. I am sick of them all
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    11:59pm
    Veritas, Australian Labor Party does not have a "U" in it, that is the British way of spelling Labor.
    Hardworker
    7th Dec 2018
    11:42am
    Bring on the Republic. No strong descent parties left to vote for. Both the LNP and Labour have lost the plot. Politicians are just in it for the power hit it gives them personally. Both parties are controlled by big business and the Catholic church (which is big business). The groups with the MONEY. They are destroying every legitimate means by which hard working descent people can help themselves to get a leg up.
    inextratime
    7th Dec 2018
    1:11pm
    Hardworker - so why would a republic make any difference to the political profile of the major parties in Australia ? I agree that polies all think they are rock stars but North Korea is a republic so where's the logic in that statement ?
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    1:44pm
    North Korea is a Republic in name only - no comparison with a Trebor government....
    Hardworker
    7th Dec 2018
    2:09pm
    inextratime - There are different types of Republics. We could use a totally different system and hopefully some descent individuals will be encouraged to run for the positions. It's about time we all put our thinking caps on and came up with a better and fairer system to encourage the right people into putting their hands up to run our country. The way it is at present no descent individual would have a bar of it.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:54pm
    Yes - in this argument about republics and 'Er Majesty, I stated clearly that we are perfectly free to develop the kind of Republic WE choose - there is no hard and fast rule except the basic, that the Prez be elected by the people and have specific powers, that the Lower House have powers, and the Senate have Powers, as well as the Public Service (Independent Mk II) and the Judiciary (above a certain level, the two lower levels that are the Poor Courts since they specialise in emptying the pockets of the poor)...

    We can have a Popularly elected President (etc - a PEP) and still retain a connection to 'Er Maj if we so choose..... some get very confused and seek black and white answers in a grey world... more than fifty shades of grey too... (book trash)....

    How would judges and Mayors go if elected by the people? Government /state prosecutors elected by the people? Police chiefs elected by the people? ... and so forth.....
    Eddy
    7th Dec 2018
    11:44am
    This 'brand damage' has happened previously to the Labor party and it recovered to win elections. The Liberal Party will probably go the same way, once it has reached the bottom the only way is up. Politics is a cyclic thing, like football and cricket and a lot of businesses, one day you are up and the next you are down. That's life. Personally I do not think it matters much which party, Labor or Liberal, is in power the end result is usually similar.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:38pm
    In the end it all likely comes down to what paper you read or what TV station you watch. That's why the LNP wanted to sell off the ABC. Rupert would have likely been the buyer and then we'd get the same Daily Telegraph tripe which goes after Labor and invents stories to demonise it. Democracy gone! Dictatorship here.
    Eddy
    7th Dec 2018
    5:44pm
    For your info Mick, I get most of my news from the ABC. For general news like fires, murders and lost dogs I may watch Nine, Seven or Ten (not necessarily in that order) but Channel 24 and ABC are my main providers of political news. I do not trust the political bias of the commercial media, Sky News is just one continuous advertisement for the right wing of politics.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    10:55pm
    Well balanced Eddy. Have a look at this:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/8vgokb/australia_media_bias_chart/

    Puts media outlets on a continuum although I'd argue 7 and 9 News are far right. Nevertheless gives a good account.
    floss
    7th Dec 2018
    11:45am
    How can a party that can't govern its self govern Australia.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:55pm
    Ask the Labor party that question.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:40pm
    The Labor Party has not killed off 2 prime ministers on its watch. Your party has.
    New coal fired power stations anybody? Shut down rooftop solar anybody else? Ban GetUp and the ABC? Don't get me going you troll.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:48pm
    Mick the Labor did kill off two PMs and then reshuffled them. Talk about indecision. How can we have people like that running the country?

    Getup is just an arm of the Labor party funded by George Soros. Australia Alliance will soon be giving them a real run for their money too.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:52pm
    And Murdoch and Stokes are not connected to the Liberal Party? Spare me your idiot comments OG.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    5:00pm
    Mick you need your ears cleaned out with such remarks so you can hear correctly.
    1984
    7th Dec 2018
    11:21pm
    I told you last time OG Get UP & George Soros emphatically deny any involvement with each other.
    Stop rehashing old BS when you have already been told the facts
    You're against anyone & everyone that isn't LNP or agree with your troll posts
    floss
    7th Dec 2018
    11:50am
    Love the party photo above is it a police line up or the Liberal party hard to tell the difference.Most should be in jail our local Liberal must be very close to it by now.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:41pm
    Ha ha ha. Yeah....real criminals. Truly. Ones who are above the law.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    8:38pm
    Australia's Most Wanted... just not in the way they'd prefer.... (ROFLMFAO)....
    tisme
    7th Dec 2018
    11:52am
    you show me an honest politician and I will show u a poor politician , how many of them are there ??
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:42pm
    Ted Mack. Now there is a man I respect. Dead or alive.
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    12:01pm
    The Liberal Party doesn’t work anymore. It needs to split into 2 Parties - one for centre moderates and one for conservatives.
    Adrianus
    7th Dec 2018
    12:10pm
    You may be right Robi, but I think the damage done by Turnbull is behind them now. Do you also think the Labor Party should split between Marxists and Centre Left? I think if both parties split we may be able to get something done.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:42pm
    Maybe some of it needs to be in jail as well.
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    5:35pm
    Adrianus, they got rid of Turnbull because 10% of the vote in the by election of Longman, Qld, went to One Nation, so Qld MP’s feared they would lose their seats in a general election and thus felt the Party needed to be more extreme right wing. They didn’t think beyond their own ambition and they didn’t seem to take into account that Qld is not the whole of Australia. They are paying now and so good to see.

    The far right of the Liberal Party and the centrist moderates will never come together. The Liberal Party is finished!
    danielboonjp
    7th Dec 2018
    12:13pm
    LNP has chosen two leaders with strong religious 'beliefs' whose organisations have involvement with peodophiles (Abbott and Morrison), both want money directed to their religion; both a proven liars and spoilers
    Adrianus
    7th Dec 2018
    12:21pm
    I thought all Muslims were not terrorists? But are you saying all church goers are pedos?
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:49pm
    Morrison and Abbott are not Christians of any kind. The fact that their churches want them is a sign of what these churches have also become.

    Jesus was once bailed up by the contemporary Scribes of the day and castigated for eating something which was considered unclean. I can't remember what.
    The response was " what goes into man's mouth does not defile him. What comes out of a man's mouth defiles him because what comes out of his mouth comes from his heart.

    I always remembered this as people like Abbott and Morrison are dishonest and nasty types who lie with almost everything which comes out of their mouths. And the churches they attend keep them in the foal to get money. That says something about both churches which have nothing to do with worshipping God and everything to do with the devil....whatever that is.
    Chaz
    7th Dec 2018
    12:19pm
    As I see it, most politicians and in particular the Liberals, are only in it for what they can personally get out of it. The best superannuation in the country, all the perks that go with the job. They really don't give a tuppenny damn about the rest of us, let alone the country. The current crop of Liberals are so out of touch with the majority of people and what is so galling is they fight amongst themselves while totally ignoring the rest of us. It's not that they are self serving in a covert manner, it is so open and obvious to everyone. Like in the recent Victorian state election the Federal Liberals need to be decimated and nearly all the senior members out of parliament and out of our lives! Then maybe some true rebuilding of the party can take place and harmony and perhaps good government (?) can happen! That's of course until after a number of years, power and self importance takes over again! Incidentally I have been a Liberal voter for most of my life but since moving to the country changed to National. Unfortunately they can never govern in their own right unless in league with the Liberals.....so caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place!
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    4:51pm
    When you vote National you are voting for the Coalition and keeping the Libs in power. As well, do you not think the Nats are self-serving? Just look at Barnaby Joyce for starters...
    Susanne
    7th Dec 2018
    12:19pm
    I don't trust nedher party If voting was not compulsory I would not bother to turn up Empty promises
    Eddy
    7th Dec 2018
    1:22pm
    Susanne, voting is not compulsory, turning up at a polling place and having your name marked off the electoral roll is compulsory. What you do in the privacy of a voting booth is between you and the pencil.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:51pm
    Don't vote and you deserve what you get. Sorry. Voting is a democratic responsibility and there are countries where that is taken from citizens.
    Of course the manipulation of the political system in our country is corruption in operation but it comes down to what every one of us will do. Say nothing and enjoy the results!
    travelman
    7th Dec 2018
    12:24pm
    The Coalition will not learn that the people of this nation are the ones they serve and I am convinced that from Abbott through to Morrison none have given any consideration to the welfare of this nation, only there own selfish welfare.
    They have tried to fool this nation with their vile diatribe, slander, and outright lies against the opposition, the Labour Party, and all they have succeeded doing is to destroy their own credibility. Add to this their failure to be honest with the public and 'paper up the cracks' of their pathetic policies leaves me appalled. Their disgraceful behaviour to the detainees on Manus and Nauru is nothing less than criminal and evil, so much so the United Nations is taking action against this government for the release of those detainees. This government, I have to call them that, (other words I could use aren't printable here) has brought shame on us around the world. I would support a Royal Commission against this Coalition Government to expose all the criminal acts they may have secretly committed and all else, shamefully, they have done. If found guilty then they should be charged, like any other criminal, and punished.
    I am so angry at this government, more than I thought I could be. As for the Labour Party, I believe they will be better and more responsible as representatives giving care and justice for our nation. They have remained a cohesive party, united in one goal, our nation and the future generations. Even those who are not for Labour, you must now realise that because of the weird and extreme behaviour of the Coalition, you have no other party to vote for other than Labour, agonising as it may be. Why? to vote for the Greens, good as they are they lack experience, One Nation we all know are certainly unable to govern and the collection of Independents will only bring confusion and chaos to Parliament House. We have only the Labour Party that can bring this nation back from the brink of disaster and provide stability that it most desperately needs - there is no one else. We are a two party political nation and the current one is no longer viable.

    In reflection, I believe that Democracy as we experience it in our time, is well past is use by date. I do believe a new Democracy that does away with all State Governments, (not needed in this 21st Century) and a new Federal Government where political parties do not exist and therefore we do not have to suffer party politics; instead, a government of the people and with the people of this nation having input of their desires and needs. I firmly believe that by the 22nd Century such a government will exist, not only in this country but throughout the world.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:53pm
    First and foremost: make political donations and inducements ILLEGAL in all their forms and then introduce POLITICAL ANTI PROPAGANDA LAWS to cut the Murdoch and Stokes media outlets down to size. Then you have democracy rather than a casino run by the rich.
    strikey
    7th Dec 2018
    12:26pm
    The real problem is not if the Libs are broken. The Labor Party is faced with the same problems. The only difference is they are not in power.

    The real question that should be asked is.... is Democracy broken?
    This high tech social media driven world is showing up all the flaws in democracy. Its weakness is its inability to screen out brain dead political candidates. It has also been infiltrated by screaming minorities that dont represent mainstream, and powerful corporates that wield more power than some companies.

    Democracy is dead!
    strikey
    7th Dec 2018
    1:08pm
    Sorry that should be countries not companies. Spell check checked me!
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    3:01pm
    Strikey wrote "Democracy is dead!"

    "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others" Winston Churchill
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:03pm
    I like the fact that Labor wanted to address the tax collection problems. The rich need to pay taxes just like everybody else and offshore tax shelters need to be closed immediately.
    The current government will not act against the rich. Labor will/may. That send a clear message....but as you say we'll have to wait to see how it plays out.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:09pm
    Mick the rich will just become world citizens and pay no tax anywhere.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:56pm
    Only if countries play their game. When governments are not controlled by wealthy interests and legislate away the right to take profits to offshore tax shelters as well as imposing tax evasion penalties on countries which fail to do likewise then the playing field becomes level.
    The fact is that leaders are mostly put there by wealthy corporations and citizens. They only escape tax because we allow them to. You are of course a part of the problem!
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    5:01pm
    Mick if you are a world citizen you belong to no country so pay no tax to any country.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    6:33pm
    Mick, the problem with Labor's tax policies is that they persecute the less well off and load the coffers of the wealthy with gold. Franking credit policy proposal is the perfect example. Everyone earning enough to pay tax will retain at least some of their franking credit benefit. The more they earn, the more they retain. Every SFR with more than $1.6 million in super will retain at least SOME of their franking credit benefit. The more they have, the more they retain. Multi-millionaire pensioners will retain their franking credit benefit. The poor couple with a $500,000 house and $850,000 in super will LOSE THEIR FRANKING CREDITS FOR LIFE.

    And that's what Labor calls 'addressing the tax collection problems'. I call it stealing from battlers to feed the rich. Most Labor voters would quickly withdraw support if they weren't blinded by lies, bribes and hypocrisy. Sadly, it seems most Labor voters are either completely lacking in intelligence or completely lacking in integrity and simply furthering their own interests with no regard for the nation, let alone what's right and fair.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    8:41pm
    Abandon your Oz citizenship then, and pay an exit tax in advance on all your assets and cash holding...... I'd suggest we make it 50% to deter losers and leaners like that from robbing the nation and then skipping out of town....

    Anyone who wishes to become a citoyen du monde must apply for a revocation of local citoyenship, and suffer the economic costs of doing so...
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:02pm
    Don't feel too aggrieved about your franking credits OGR. I've lost out there as well.
    The wider issue of Trusts and tax avoidance is what I am wanting labor to address. If they fail to do so then they'll be gone come the next election. They would be aware of that too.

    OG - you really must be a total dimwit. If multinationals pay no tax then poor citizens will have to pay heaps. How do you think infrastructure, social security, etc. are paid for.
    Your statement is that of a dick***d or an idiot or both. Give me strength!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:45am
    Mick, if Labor can't - or doesn't want to - design a franking credit reform to hit the right target, then they are certainly NOT going to address Trusts and tax avoidance correctly. They are clearly aiming to destroy the middle class. They have no desire whatever to address tax avoidance. If they did, they would design their policies correctly and LISTEN to objections, instead of declaring ''you can talk to me up hill and down dale and I will NEVER reconsider''.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    10:56am
    Consider this, Mick. Labor's franking credit policy is so hideously flawed that it evidences either that they are totally inept, or that they have a secret sinister agenda that they are lying to cover up. Their refusal to consider objections and consider modifications strongly implies the latter. The refusal of regional MPs to consider and respond to constituents strongly implies the latter. The fact that Greens say they support the policy but won't debate it strongly implies the latter. The fact that it's based on 2014-5 figures strongly implies the latter, since they certainly know those figures are out of date.

    I'm going with ''secret sinister agenda'' because it's the only logical conclusion. It's not the personal loss that worries me most. It's the motive. They have proven themselves unfit to govern.
    Blue Trumpy
    7th Dec 2018
    12:29pm
    If you are not happy with the job ScoMo is doing, you ain't seen nothing yet! If Bill Shorten gets in at the next election God help Australia and it's people. It will be a disaster especially for self funded retirees and pensioners.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:50pm
    And investors.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:56pm
    Another advertisement from your sponsor?

    Here's one to ponder: Labor left office with a debt of $148 billion. The LNP has run the tab up to almost $600 billion and done nothing other than run Royal Commissions into unions and Labor as well as waste money like a drunk sailor on shore leave.

    Tell me about Shorten. I don't like the man personally but what other choice do you have?
    Noodles
    7th Dec 2018
    3:12pm
    I am voting for the party who said they would bring in a surplus and stop the the boats'; both promises made at the last election and promises which have and will be fulfilled.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:22pm
    I agree Noodles.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:56pm
    'surplus budget'... a pie in the sky forward estimate that will not even be within their reign the way things look....(LMAO)....
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:58pm
    How much do you get paid for that crap?
    I'd normally vote Independent but have no choice this time around. It is either for all wealth to be given to the rich or for a fairer distribution of the nation's wealth. I'll vote for the latter as any decent Australians would do. I know you two are not decent so vote for your employer!
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    4:00pm
    'stop the boats' - stopped them by force on the high seas in an act of piracy and forced them to a port destination not of their choosing ... didn't stop anything... just hijacked them on the High Seas..... and then punished the passengers onboard regardless of the merits of their claim for asylum ......

    Gangsterism and gunboat policy..... no wonder the Chinese are trying to run this nation into the ground.... they know all about slow working dopes and the wars they start..... and they hate gangsterism and gunboat policy... though they use those themselves when they want to... look at the Spratleys etc ....

    Nar, then - how about some fair play for the sailors and the few troops who suffer psychologically for carrying out these acts of piracy on orders from their 'government'?
    Noodles
    9th Dec 2018
    11:17am
    as we all know the last time Labor had a surplus was when? It was 29 years ago in 1989.

    we did of course have Wayne Swan, the Labor Treasurer announce he would be bringing in a $1 billion surplus which he never ever delivered.

    yes, Labor does have a great track record on handling money don't they!!
    Dorliz
    7th Dec 2018
    12:29pm
    If only they could stop sniping at one another and get on with the job their electorates voted them in to do - are there any there who are not in it for the pension perks - I think not. No guts any of them.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:53pm
    I was so glad to see our PM close down parliament and stop all that opposition sniping that has been going one for last couple of weeks. Shame of Labor and the rest of them for such dreadful behaviour.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    2:58pm
    Ha ha ha. Good try OG. You defy belief.

    Morrison is so arrogant that he believes he can TELL the opposition what they are to do and that it needs to happen now? What a sideshow for the mentally challenged.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    4:05pm
    That's what an opposition is for..... but not in the Liberal Neo-Con Book On Governance And The Right To Rule... (Thatcher/Reagan Publications, 2nd edition).... a government, according to that Book, is supposed to have absolute powers to dictate to the opposition and to the people....

    I still laugh on recollection of some journo sitting next to John Howard at some function and commenting on 'the power of the man' - Wee Johnnie struggling on his short legs to keep up with the long-striding Infantryman Cosgrove and saying in his high voice :- "They're a fine body of men, Peter!".. to be met initially with a stone-faced look and then a nod and a grunt.... (falls about laughing).....
    Rhonny
    7th Dec 2018
    12:31pm
    I’ve been a labour voter most of my life because I felt that party looked after the workers,however I could not vote for a shorten government that is led by a backstabbing person who is out to look after himself( look what he did to Julia & Rudd...we don’t really know what he stands from!....As a self funded self managed retiree who has saved & is paying for my own retirement & not dependant on a pension & government handouts,I certainly cannot countenance yet another change & double dip to superannuation .....also the economy is finally on the mend & unemployment is relatively low...why risk that with a shonk who can’t be trusted...
    Rhonny
    7th Dec 2018
    12:31pm
    I’ve been a labour voter most of my life because I felt that party looked after the workers,however I could not vote for a shorten government that is led by a backstabbing person who is out to look after himself( look what he did to Julia & Rudd...we don’t really know what he stands from!....As a self funded self managed retiree who has saved & is paying for my own retirement & not dependant on a pension & government handouts,I certainly cannot countenance yet another change & double dip to superannuation .....also the economy is finally on the mend & unemployment is relatively low...why risk that with a shonk who can’t be trusted...
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    1:50pm
    We all know what Joolia & Krudd stood for. Why don't you?

    "Save" the planet (from what?) on the backs of the poor with massive carbon taxes and skyrocketing electricity rates!

    Thankfully we had Tony Abbott to at least delay these leftie excesses ....
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:01pm
    Rhonny - did you vote for Turnbull or Morrison?

    I am a fence sitter and normally pick the best and most honest choice. Its a clear choice this time around and I will be unable to vote Independent because the number one choice has to be to SEE THE CURRENT CROOKS ON THEIR WAY. This is how much I value our democracy. The current government is attempting to steal this from us all and I won't have a bar of it.
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    5:15pm
    I am thinking like you Mick. I don’t usually give Labor my first vote but think I will at the next election because the Libs have got to go. Also, Labor has policies which align with my values and the Libs are so obviously struggling to get any policies together whatsoever. They seem to stand for doing nothing, avoiding change, sucking up to big business and industry and selling our country out from under us.

    Rhonny, you don’t vote for the leader of a Party (unless he is MP for your electorate), you vote for policy based on your values so run with that. If you believe we should be ignoring climate change and be sucking up to the coal industry, gas frackers and the like vote for the Libs or Nats. If you believe we should be clearing land at a rate of knots, thus wiping out millions of species in the ecosystem of which we are all interdependent, vote Libs or Nats. If you believe we should sell our precious water to Adani vote Libs or Nats. I could go on but you will get my gist.
    Pisces
    7th Dec 2018
    12:41pm
    The only thing these parasites care about is themselves
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    12:42pm
    The Liberal party was trashed (probably deliberately) by LABOR PLANT Turnbull and his hard left faction, who took the party much too far to the left, while at the same time calling it the "sensible centre"!!!
    What a joke.

    Not many people seem to be aware that before he joined the Liberals, Turnbull was rebuffed by Labor! He's a labor man, if not a rabid greenie, at heart.

    It seems many extreme left wing people tend to deny how extremely left wing they are. … interesting … even the Greens are labouring under the delusion that they represent the middle ground!!!!

    Turnbull wanted to reshape the party as “LaborLite”, especially with his grim determination tp push the left wing "climatechange®" scam at all costs.

    I could see what was happening years ago, and, after being a Liberal voter for many years, I stopped voting Liberal once Turnbull knifed Tony Abbott, just before the Paris "climatechange®" scam talkfest in 2016, in order to ensure Australia signed up.

    During Turnbull’s first attempt at taking over the party I had written emails to all Liberal party members telling them of my intentions to no longer vote for the party if Turnbull became PM.
    Luckily Tony Abbott overcame Turnbull and I continued to vote Liberal.

    Tony went on to a LANDSLIDE WIN in 2015 on the promise of repealing Gillard’s pointless carbon tax.

    Labor plant Turnbull as PM undid all that good work and severely reduced the LNP majority to just one seat as conservative voters like me deserted the party in droves!!

    Too bad the second time Turnbull became PM!
    I could see that Turnbull was a traitor to conservatives within the party, and that explains why the silent majority has left the party in droves.
    What a shame …

    I will now vote Australian Conservatives until the Liberals come to their senses.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:51pm
    You have to remember that Turnbull told one of my friends when he was at uni that he wanted to be PM. My friend asked what party and he said either would do.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:05pm
    Bla bla bla bla bla.
    Go live at sea level or in Queensland. You need to suffer the effects of climate change rather than support the coal lobby.
    Disgraceful Australian who does not car about his country.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:20pm
    Maybe I do live at sea level in Queensland in a Gold Coast penthouse.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    3:26pm
    Mick wrote "You need to suffer the effects of climate change"

    You mean real climate change which has been with us for millions of years and CAN'T BE STOPPED by puny humanity.

    Or do you mean the "climatechange®" scam?

    To stop the scam would also be nigh impossible.

    Just look at Italy's unsuccessful attempts at stopping the mafia to see what I mean.

    Very hard to stop something where human greed is involved ... too many hangers-on enjoying lavish lifetyles jetting around the globe to "climatechange®" gabfests and avoiding putting themselves out of a job & luxurious lifestyle by admitting that "climatechange®" is a FRAUD!
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    3:34pm
    Mick wrote "Go live at sea level"

    What does that have to do with anything?

    Sea levels have been slowly rising AT A STEADY RATE since the end of The Little Ice Age.


    There has been absolutely no change in the rate of rise since then.

    Look up this link "The clever ruse of rising sea levels"

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/12/06/the-clever-ruse-of-rising-sea-levels/
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    3:48pm
    Hey Mick here's how your "climatechange®" are partying on the backs of the poor ....

    "climatechange®" PARTY! AFRICAN DELEGATES SWAMP CONFERENCE

    It's a feeding frenzy at the UN climate conference. There's the excuse for taxpayer-paid travel, of course, and the excuse to extort huge donations from the guilty rich:

    An analysis of delegates by Carbon Brief found Guinea topped the list with 406 delegates, down 86 from last time. The Democratic Republic of Congo is second, with 237. Host nation Polan­d is third, with 211 delegates, followed by Ivory Coast, whose delegation this year has more than halved to 208 people...

    Those huge delegations from these poor nations are actually down on last time? Wow.

    Graham Lloyd puts it extremely diplomatically:

    While some African countries give delegate tickets to non-governm­ental organisations, the make-up gives an indication of how important they consider the talks for securing development and mitigation funds.

    Or as our Environment Minister Melissa Price memorably said to a former Kiribati Prime Minister who'd come on his warming crusade:

    I know why you’re here. It is for the cash. For the Pacific it’s always about the cash. I have my chequebook here. How much do you want?

    Oink, oink:

    According to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, 22,771 people have gone to Katowice. This includes 13,898 people representing specific part­ies, 7331 from observer organisations — such as scientists, business groups and various NGOs — and 1541 journalists. In terms of delegates, at 13898, it is the biggest number since Paris in 2015.

    All that carbon pollution to fly in nearly 14,000 people! It's a menace to the planet.

    And what's this about 7331 "observers"? Is this like a sports event for salvation seekers? Do they cheer? Pass the popcorn?

    But I can see why journalists love this "globalwarming®" scare. There aren't many excuses to get 1541 jetting off to an exotic location on business expenses.

    Our delegation is 30, and that's already more than required to say "no". President Donald Trump has cut America's delegation to just 44, less that half the number that Barack Obama sent to the flop in Copenhagen.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    4:00pm
    More CO2. More coal. More CO2. More coal. Ahrrrr... Pieces of eight.
    What a dead waste of time. Not even the other trolls are bothering today.
    Misty
    10th Dec 2018
    11:00am
    Well LUVCO2 the Australian voters are rejecting the hard right wing Liberal Policies, even one of their own said this week the Dinosaurs have to go, they are holding the party back, looks like the disunity in the Liberal Party is alive and well.
    johnp
    7th Dec 2018
    12:45pm
    I have noticed the current lib govt has been chipping away at the various benefits and asset/income etc tests paid to aged persons and especially the self funded retirees
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    1:36pm
    Yep, following on from the ALP's destruction of the quality of retirement for battlers through introduction of means tests, introduction of deeming, delay of retirement to age 67... and now wanting to overtax poorer retirees 30% of their DI income while ensuring the rich retain the benefit.
    Snowflake
    7th Dec 2018
    12:46pm
    How could anyone support the bunch of wankers in the LIberal party. Horrible, self seeking politicians of the worst type. I very rarely take a strong dislike to anything but I make an exception to the current crop of Liberal front benchers.
    May they never rule again until the right wing element is swept out of its ranks and starts to have a social conscience again and actually serve the people of Australia instead of themselves.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    1:33pm
    So you'd rather the lying hypocritical wankers in the ALP, who use outdated 2014-5 figures and a host of lies - oh, and not to forget a cheap and deceptive bribe to pensioners - to try to sell a policy that threatens economic destruction and makes saving for retirement totally futile unless you are rich, but ensures the wealthy and high income earners (who the ALP CLAIMS to be targeting) don't lose a cent?

    We need to get rid of the whole damned filthy self-interested corrupt lot.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    1:43pm
    Spoken like a true leftie.

    Which means you have never, and never will, vote Liberal.

    IOW your opinion is irrelevant.

    The liberal party takes too much notice of misleading polls.

    All those polls we had favouring Turnbull over Abbott are likely driven by leftie people like you who would never ever vote Liberal but skew the result which is one reason Tony Abbott was knifed by leftie Turnbull.

    Let me guess ... I'd say youre either a Labor or Greens voter.

    Liberals will rule again, as they did before the leftie Turnbull wrecking ball arrived, once the leftist scum is expunged and eciled to either Labor or Greens where they belong....

    A good thrashing at the next election will hopefully knock some sense into the Liberals and they will revert to their conservative roots ... unfortunately, in the meantime, we will all have to endure Labor running up more massive debt, reopening the centrelink seeker ... er ..."asylum seeker" floodgates a la KRudd, and paying out huge $ums to foreign dictators to compensate for some mythical "climatechange®" damage ...
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:07pm
    Well written Snowflake.
    The trolls who post for payment are all over the site today. Hardly worth reading their routine crap.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:21pm
    There are no 'asylum seeker' floodgates - all asylum seekers are vetted either 'onshore' or 'offshore' and accepted or rejected by the same values..... the only difference being that Adolph Abbott and Co removed the right to settle here for any found positively vetted in 'offshore'....

    No fundamental difference in any way to the standards applied.
    Sundays
    7th Dec 2018
    3:30pm
    The trolls on this forum can write what they want, vote numerous times in this poll to skew the results, but me and many of the ordinary voters I speak to feel the same as you. The Liberals forget that ordinary people voted them in and can vote them out. Their arrogance begs belief
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    4:01pm
    Sundays - you can feel an election is close when the LNP shells out so much money to convince the elderly to vote for their own demise.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    5:04pm
    Mick it is Labor that wants to kill off the elderly and take all their money not the Liberals.
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    5:25pm
    I have been talking to people who say they were Liberal voters but will not vote for them again (or at least until they get their act together). There is hope....!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:05pm
    Really OG.
    Who wants retirees to flog the house, downsize and live off the cash? Who pushed the assets down so far that many retirees were pushed off a pension? Who is trying to get retirees to do farming work where they get almost zero pay?
    Your posts continue to offend in their ignorance.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    11:08pm
    The answer to all your questions MICK is LABOR

    that’s what their policies will end up doing
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    9:07am
    Mick, Labor is refusing to reverse the assets test change - and they introduced means testing in the first place. Labor is wiping out the income of SFRs so they have to downsize their house, go to work, or claim a pension - the latter of which is likely to lead to pension cuts. Labor raised the retirement age to 67. Labor introduced deeming. Labor is destroying the value of superannuation by making saving detrimental.

    They are helping the LNP greatly to achieve their shared objective.
    Colours
    7th Dec 2018
    12:47pm
    Laboral or Libor? Toss a coin - they are functionally identical.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    3:23pm
    ... and dysfunctionally identical in the overall outcomes for the ordinary people... but all their chosen mates will be cosy....
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    5:57pm
    Over our history Labor introduced aged pensions and other welfare benefits. Labor gave us our Medicare Health System. Labor gave us our Superannuation System. Labor gave us our NDIS to help the disabled and carers. Everything good that serves the people has come from Labor governments over the ages. Labor withdrew our boys from a war we should never have been involved in - Vietnam. What has the Coalition ever done for us? The Menzies government allowed Britain to test nuclear weapons in our country and later sent our boys to fight in Vietnam. They have sold practically every asset the Oz people have owned. They did not protect our resources so that the Australian people benefitted. We in fact pay more for our own resource of gas than the rest of the world that buys it from the overseas companies the Coalition sold it to. Weigh it all up folks...the Labor governments have served our people far better than the Coalition ever did. When it comes to trust, I will allow mine to be directed by the history of these two past rulers - Labor and the Coalition of Lib/Nats.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    6:01pm
    One word Robi - starts with b and ends with t and it means cow poop

    Without a strong economy with pro growth policies , you cannot have a decent welfare system

    The balance is struck by having right wing growth policies which we then sacrifice a little to provide for those who have fallen on hard times

    Nothing good comes from taking to much out of growth to buy votes - which is what Shorten plans to do
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    6:16pm
    Lothario, you have reminded me of something I had forgotten. Labor saved us from the fall out of the gfc (great financial crisis). Had the Lib/Nats been in charge at that time I think we would have all been doomed.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    9:02am
    Labor screwed the retired with means tests, deeming rates, raising retirement age to 67, and now intends to totally demolish self-funded retirement for all but the rich. They introduced super and now want to wipe out the benefits of it, while threatening to totally destroy investment in Australian companies and thus drive unemployment to record highs and tax receipts to record lows.

    No time for the LNP, and I used to support Labor. But now the ALP is far worse than the evil alternative.
    Old Man
    7th Dec 2018
    12:55pm
    I chose not to complete the survey because I don't like all of the choices. I believe that the survey is loaded to produce a biased result.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:49pm
    I agree I couldn't complete it either as it made no sense.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:08pm
    Spoken like a true LNP troll. What else is new.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:10pm
    Only a hard nosed Labor voter would have any hope of completing that survey.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:12pm
    Your lot do not have surveys. They have edicts.
    Blinky
    7th Dec 2018
    12:57pm
    The Libs stuffed up with the removal of two PMs. They need to re-group and start working as a team. I wouldhate seeing the ALP win the next electionns, they are even worse. So, the best of two evils are the Libs.
    , but they need clear policies, carefully-selected poliricians and they need to listen to us, 'the peasants' 'cause we will remember them come election time!
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:30pm
    I agree the Liberals are bad enough but Labor that doesn't even bear thinking about.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:11pm
    Team? A team of creeps and crooks selling out the country. Once you get to this stage you normally start again. Phase one is to cleanse the party of the scum. Phase two is to rule for the nation and not just the rich. Phase three is to work for the nation rather than against it.
    The current government has no chance even with the media propaganda machine in full swing behind it.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:18pm
    Spoken like a hard nosed Labor man.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    4:04pm
    No. Spoken like an HONEST man OG, but you would have little idea of honesty and integrity because you have neither. Just a gun for hire being paid to post dishonest diatribe.
    I sort of feel sorry for you mate. Where is your soul?
    inextratime
    7th Dec 2018
    1:06pm
    Hi Mick, you obviously do not watch Channel 9. Their political commentator has a wife who is a Labour minister in Canberra. Their news agenda is heavily biased towards Labour and is at times embarrassing to watch.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:15pm
    We used to until silvertail Peter Overton smeared Shorten after the election of Turnbull.
    Shorten was visiting Tasmania to thank supporters and Shorten in his sneering voice said on prime time News "doesn't he know the election is over"? That meant 'we had the fake election, got our lot in so go away'. Sickening. never watch Nine News since.
    Blinky
    7th Dec 2018
    1:06pm
    The Libs need to get their act together and focus, not on who gets the best job but on the needs of Australians. Pollies also need to remember Aussie retirees, the forsaken lot. We spend lots of money on foreign aid, refugees, migrants and asylum seekers on behalf of 'compassionate grounds" but pollies are always finding the way to screw retirees, the very people who have built this country
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:17pm
    The Libs are owned by the coal industry and multinationals. You will NEVER get the interests of the country from this lot. The fact that hospitality workers had Work Choices applied to them and the rich got tax cuts when everybody else is being pushed into poverty is the canary in the coalmine. Please take note Blinky.
    Suda
    7th Dec 2018
    1:19pm
    At the end of the day it's a game played by people with money..
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:45pm
    and games played with preferences too.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:17pm
    Yes. Wealthy people. Getting what THEY want.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:59am
    Yes, wealthy Turnbull, Abbott, Morrison, Shorten, Bowen... the whole damned lot of them. Self-interested, selfish, greedy, and totally uncaring about the nation and it's people. And not one of them any better than the worst of them.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    1:27pm
    The Liberal Party has blown a huge hole through its feet, with its changes to:-
    . pension entitlements,
    . robo-debt,
    . leadership change,
    . its initial choice of Abbott as leader (what were they thinking?),
    . Abbott's Heinz turnarounds and outright fibs,
    . Abbott's churlishness at losing,
    . Fat Joe and the comedy tour of Dar Cormannator mit dar comic opera Cherman agsent . und der zigars to zelebrate screwing dar beople,
    . its idiotic and transparent rubber stamp 'commission of inquiry',
    . amazing disgrace in asking for and receiving 'entitlements' for travel etc (Bronnygate),'
    . Age of Entitlement' comment drawing derision from the crowd,
    . business tax cuts unneeded at a time of 'budget emergency'(the day big business pays 30% will be a new dawning),
    . its dedication to the failed policies of 'globalisation' and 'privatisation',
    . its very own immigration policies (plane people) that are achieving the same result as boat people,
    . the hijacking of vessels of s sovereign nation on the High Seas and forcing them toa port not of their choosing,
    . hiding the truth of Nauru etc behind the veil of 'operational necessity',
    . its handling of issues for Veterans and RAN personnal affected psychologically by this (and other things - and never forget it was Wee Johnnie who made it hard for Vets at DVA),
    . and its general handling of anything to do with PEOPLE.

    What more could you ask??

    That's not to say that Labrador as currently constituted will be any better - you all know by now my personal views of big parties here... and the reality that once the LNP is booted, Labrador will give us a chewing over, reduce sovereign rights for some, continue their current nonsense jihads on specific issues to the detriment of everyone else etc, and then hand back the reins when they've failed to another lot of Libs who will rape the nation and its resources.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    1:54pm
    Trebor wrote "The Liberal Party has blown a huge hole through its feet, with its changes to:-
    . pension entitlements"

    ..... the changes to pension entitlements, such as harsher assets/income tests, could not have happened without Labor support!!
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    2:44pm
    Well - I don;t spare Labrador anyway, but the issue is the LNP.... I'm one of the crowd calling for the return of Pension Age, raised by St Julia and the Labor Crusade, to 65.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:19pm
    The Liberal Party has brought our country to its knees and now wants to build a whole pile of coal fired power generators for it wealthy donors. Tell me about the Liberal Party. The list of its infamous achievements could fill the page.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    6:46pm
    Mick wrote "wants to build a whole pile of coal fired power generators for it wealthy donors"

    Thankfully!

    “We are not morally bad people for taking carbon and turning it into the energy that offers life to humanity…” Carbon-based energy, which is “the most affordable and reliable source of energy in demand today, liberates people from poverty,” “Without energy, life is brutal and short.” – Climatologist Dr. John Christy


    The Asians are having a really good laugh at suicidal policies being driven by the GREAT GLOBAL WARMING HOAX AND GULLIBLE WESTERN POLITICIANS AND ACTIVIST “SCIENTISTS!
    The “Main concern is not “Dwindling Demand” for coal,
    but meeting RUNAWAY DEMAND mostly from China & India” http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/the-coal-bosses-plan-mine-coal-sell-coal-repeat-until-rich-20101113-17rv5.html


    China coal consumption forecast to rise 37% by 2020, according to the China National Coal Asscn
    http://www.proactiveinvestors.com.au/companies/news/50531/chinas-coal-demand-forecast-to-hit-48-billion-tonnes-50531.html

    Earth to the Greens: No coal means no steel
    Minerals Council of Australia CEO Brendan Pearson exposes either the Greens’ ignorance or their hypocrisy. Maybe both:
    Some instances of hypocrisy are so truly audacious in scale, so blissfully ignorant of irony, so completely lacking in self-awareness that they simply take the breath away.
    A textbook example is the Greens’ support for the Arrium steelworks in Whyalla.
    To see the Greens supporting heavy industry (rather than deriding it as a big polluter) is a welcome development.
    BUT, BUT, BUT ...
    The problem is that the Greens want to phase out the use of coal.
    And coal is a primary feedstock for the steelworks in Whyalla (as well as Bluescope’s Port Kembla plant).
    You cannot make steel in a blast furnace without coal.


    Coal Use Rockets in “Low Carbon” EU, UK up 1/3 in 1yr! https://hauntingthelibrary.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/coal-use-rockets-in-low-carbon-eu-up-by-13-in-uk-in-just-one-year/
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:07pm
    Buy a house less than a metre above sea level coal man. God luck to you.
    When climate change gets much worse then I hope you are sued for damages. You deserve it.
    Thoughtful
    7th Dec 2018
    1:28pm
    Liberal party brand is damaged because they are the current government. Labor party brand was damaged when they were the government. A good government requires a competent and meaningful opposition .Enough said.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:20pm
    We certainly haven't got that.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:24pm
    I'll debate that with you Thoughtful. Labor was damaged because Murdoch and Stokes media came after it as well as one Alan Jones. The coal industry was at the centre of the vicious unfair attacks which ensued and I ask you to remember the 20 times daily attack about "the debt". That was $148 billion when Labor was replaced. Now it is $600 billion but please tell me the last time you heard about our debt. Never!

    The current government has done more damage to our country than any government in living history. No accident. Just plain intentional arrogance, vile and fraudulent behaviour and the shredding of OUR money.
    Thoughtful
    7th Dec 2018
    8:45pm
    You see it is not about what has happened - it's about what can be done. Read through most of these comments. You sound like politicians in parliament. He said she said he did she did. I fear that the running of this country has become a competition about who can dish out the most blame. No costed sensible policies, everyone protecting their ideas. And nobody prepared to give anyone the floor , so that everything is drowned out. We live in difficult times, mostly not of our own doing. Debate? Only if it is actually listened to and something positive comes from it!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:10pm
    I welcome all debate which is not propaganda and trolling.
    What I fight against is blatant lies from posters who are paid employees posting BS and trying to evade the truth. Read for yourself. Plenty of them here. Start with OG and OM.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    11:16pm
    No paid trolls here except for MICK
    travelman
    7th Dec 2018
    1:43pm
    The Coalition Government has failed this nation completely. They have been more concerned, each with his/her future that they have stopped being a unified government. They have destroyed their credibility as a government and their insults and behaviour towards the Labour Party beggars belief; they have tried to slander Labour in the hope that people will believe them and vote for them on the next election. It certainly is a sad desperate attempt to hold onto power. Their in-fighting has destroyed them as a viable government. As we have basically only three political parties with the Coalition Government facing absolute defeat; the Greens not having the experience to govern in their own right and so there is only the Labour Party that can govern; independents and the One nation party can only result in confusion and chaos. I feel for those who have voted for the Coalition in the past, they face a terrible decision because their party is without hope. With only a few months to go it is certain that Scott Morrison is unable to bring his Coalition together to achieve unity and credibility. We should rely on Labour as the new government for they have shown unity, stability, good policies and the willingness to listen to the people. What choice do we have, all us, we have to try and make a sound decision - my decision is labour because they have remained united as one since Tony Abbott was made Prime Minister and throughout His being ejected from office to Malcolm Turnbull succeeding and then being ejected, now Scott Morrison. Right from him taking office he has lost control of the party, unable to unite his government and it is now a shambles. My fear is that if the Coalition get back into power, we will get more of the same and if that happens it will result in a national disaster. There is no other party than the Labour Party to govern, they show us hope but we must also do our part to ensure that we the people can have influence, after all it is easier to influence a new government to do its job properly rather than to try to help the current government to do its job properly; it has shown after six years it is incapable of governing, why should the next three years be any different. For our children's sake we cannot take the risk, it would be irresponsible of us.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:46pm
    Ha ha you certainly have a short memory.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:24pm
    Correct Travelman.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    5:13pm
    Mick so you have memory problems as well.
    Susanne
    7th Dec 2018
    1:46pm
    I know Eddy That is what I do
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    1:54pm
    I don't normally vote as its such a waste of time but the franking credit policy of Labor will see them last on my ballot paper.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:25pm
    Liar! You ALWAYS vote LNP.
    Charlie
    7th Dec 2018
    2:19pm
    Changing a leader is something the electorate hates, if the liberals get away with it this time, the reason can only be, that there is nobody else worth voting for.

    Liberalism is causing conflict around the world, but this is because in America it is associated with being an activist and supporting policies similar to the Greens

    .In Australia the Liberal party is not like that at all, but it must confuse other countries about what is happening in Australia, especially regarding investment opportunities.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:26pm
    Remember "the Coalition does not replace its sitting prime ministers". I recall pipsqueak Pyne made that statement.
    casey
    7th Dec 2018
    2:25pm
    Didn't we learn our lesson with Bob Hawke, what a disaster. Now we have another ex union know it all. I suppose at least this one isn't an alcoholic.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:29pm
    He must be on something the way he behaves though.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:28pm
    Hang on. This lot take from the poor and give to the rich and you twist this around to Hawke. A new approach from the trolls today eh?
    Shorten may not be Mr Personality but he supports average citizens trying to just make a living and pay the bills. The LNP sees this group as worthy of destitution.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:33pm
    Mick they all take a lot more from the rich and give it to the poor. 20% of the population pay 80% of the taxes and that's the top wealthy 20%.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    4:07pm
    And 20% of the population earns a heck of a lot more than 20% of the national income. That's the con you consistently try to palm off.
    The real question is: what PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME do the rich pay in tax? 10%? Maybe less. I don't know, but I do know that this is the way to guage how much tax the wealthy pay. And that would be AFTER all the dodgy accounting minimisation of taxable income had been done.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    4:12pm
    Mick - you are as thick as 4 planks
    Everyone - rich poor or middle class pays the correct %age of their taxable income as stipulated by the income tax acts
    May low paid Aussies pay 0% - 20% while the top end pay an average of over 40%
    Annin absolute terms this would be an average of $10k per year vesus $150k per year in tax per person
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:04pm
    You are brain dead. They don't!
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    6:05pm
    Another unintelligent comment from Mick
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    6:37pm
    Paying 40% on taxable income after a host of deductions and free rides is not paying top tax at all...

    Jeez - some here buy a new Merc every two years, have a host of positive geared properties, and can even get someone to fund that Merc so they do have income, and run around leading the life of Riley - so they say - and yet they don't even reach the 30% mark for income tax and actually use their imputed dividends to offset their income tax on declared income.

    Now wonder the ATO and lots of others are smelling rats.....

    I love a good laugh myself..... these guys... they are better than Bob Hope...
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    6:44pm
    Every 4 years I said and used to buy only demo C class - not that expensive

    And you still don’t understand imputation credits . If my taxable income is just under $100k per annum and I have $29k in franking credits , that’s my good luck.
    Try and use your brain
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    8:54pm
    Keep handing us all you net figures, Loathie.... plenty of pro bonos in your kind of 'business'....

    If your franked credits are from ALL of your investments, your total income from investment alone is $29,000/3 x 10 = $96,000. Add the rest of your income strands together and then add the $29k to your overall withheld tax and deductions, deduct from overall income ... THAT is how dividend imputation is supposed to work.... not as a free gift.

    Bro Shorten is trying to get rid of the free and unwarranted gifts.... not attack those on lower real incomes....

    That leaves you only $4000 p.a. from other sources.... your figure of $100,000.......

    So now you are saying that your amazing portfolio of positive geared properties gives you nothing and yet you lead the life of Riley and women (who adore money) fall at your feet religiously??

    And you said two years per Merc.... now it's four.... but you still need sufficient income to float a loan or a lease for any vehicle...
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    9:00pm
    Take home pay from $100,000 is currently $73,400.. your overall tax + levy on $100,000 is $26,600... as long as you had no tax liable on other strands of income your return from dividend imputation should properly be $2,400........

    So now come back and say.. nah... nah.... my other strand income is $100,000...my dividends aren't included in taxable income (yardle, yardle, yardle).....

    Let's see you get out of this one...... without personal insults, please.. just for a change... try figures and facts...

    Prove to me that many shareholders are skating under the ATO ice roof, since the ATO only checks one out of ten at most.....
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    9:02pm
    We'll forget about the Mercs... let's just deal with the figures you've given yourself here.....
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    10:27pm
    Do yourself a favor and get a good accountant Trebor . You’ll be surprised how much tax you are unnecessarily paying
    Here’s a few hints - Income splitting, concessional contributions , depreciation, a host of cost apportionment opportunities from private to “in the course of income generation” etc etc etc
    I’m not telling you what my gross is, but a friend reduced his gross by around $50k without any margin lending
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:14pm
    TREBOR - the issue is that the top end AVOID the top rate of tax. They minimise with all sorts of legal and dodgy practises: family trusts, superannuation, company tax instead of personal tax, business deductions which would make an accountant blush and offshore tax shelters for some.
    These people are masters of avoidance and they do not pay the correct rate.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    11:20pm
    Please stfu about things you don’t understand Mick
    Most people pay the correct rate of tax
    If you want to see rorting expenses - have a look at union officials and the millions spent on happy ending massages travel and entertainment using members funds
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    11:33pm
    Waiting for your book to come out, olbie... Confessions Of A Tax Dodger.....

    'good accountants' know full well that as long as they stay within the parameters of the ATO for the industry in question, the chances of the ATO stirring from its slumber are minute... you are also confessing to tax dodges......

    I've had businesses and good accountants - when I expressed concern over my return for a year, my accountant just smiled like a Cheshire Cat - as long as we stay within the parameters, the ATO won't notice us...

    Therein lies the problem .... the ATO is not equipped to do its job properly except for wage and salary earners, who pay full measure.....

    This is why Shorten and Co are looking at dividend imputation, family and other trusts, and individuals and companies who transfer money offshore and onshore to create a false cashflow.... something you yourself alluded to doing in your previous life, Lowthie....

    Are you certain you're not an ATO compliance officer trawling for people to bite and reveal their shenanigans? I would advise discretion in what you reveal online - the ATO is watching, and there have been moves afoot in some 73 'developed nations' to curtail the chicaneries of the Offshore Economy which is robbing their national tills of tax revenue.

    I don't need a good accountant these days - I'm covered in every way.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    3:37pm
    So if Labor is competent and has integrity, they will stop tax evasion and leave DI alone, because it's RIGHT AND PROPER AND FAIR. DI was NEVER the problem. It's tax avoidance that's the issue. Stop that and only those who have an honest and ethical entitlement get DI refunds, which is as it should be. But Labor hasn't the intellect or the integrity to address the issue. It's easier to just STEAL from honest battlers.
    1984
    8th Dec 2018
    3:46pm
    It's looking after the top end of town as a priority OGR. Pensioners & battlers are always the easiest of targets & way down on the "To Help List" by any of the major parties.
    bananabender
    7th Dec 2018
    2:38pm
    It was the Liberal Party that took us into two wars (Vietnam and Iraq) based on lies.

    It was the Liberal party that voted against Universal Health Care every time Labor put it to a vote.

    It was the Liberal Party that abolished Universal Health Care when Fraser was elected.

    It was the Labor Party that established it again when the Hawke government was elected.

    It is the Liberals who still try to gut it through the back door.

    And you wonder why I don't vote Liberal?
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    2:45pm
    Labor did nothing to fix it either last time they were in power so you are dreaming if you think Labor will fix it.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:32pm
    And you may want to add:

    It is the Liberal Party which gave the rich generous tax cuts (rich man's welfare) and then set about taking services from the rest of us.

    It is the Liberal Party which wants to either close down the ABC or alternatively flog it off to be transformed into another right wing propaganda machine.

    It is the Liberal Party which keeps introducing new laws to strip Australians of their freedoms and rights.

    More, but its Friday!
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    5:07pm
    Only Friday Mick no wonder I haven't even warmed up yet.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    6:43pm
    And you might want to add that it was Labor who raised retirement age to 67. It was Labor who created the means test that impoverishes struggling SFRs and encourages cheating, manipulation and overinvestment in the family home. It was Labor that implemented deeming to persecute pensioners for saving. It's Labor that wants to demolish the retirement of 1 million poorer self-funded retirees while giving the rich their franking credits, and thus push another 1 million onto pensions, making the aged pension system unaffordable.

    Labor refused to reverse the LNP's cruel change to the assets test, despite PRETENDING to oppose it.

    Labor is guaranteeing the wealthy and high income earners their 30% tax credit for investing in fully franked shares, while denying a $28,000 a year wage earner any tax credit for his investment and grinding the SFR couple with only $850,000 into hardship by stealing 30% of their dividend income.

    Bottom line: BOTH parties are unconscionable, inept, and a danger to society.
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    6:52pm
    Exactly bananabender.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:24pm
    How many more failed pollies are sending their ghosts back to haunt us? For heavens sake put some decent nails in their coffins.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    3:35pm
    Yeah...saw Johnny Howard on the 7:30 Report recently slagging off renewables investment. He never mentioned how well they are going, how they are driving down the cost of energy and how the planet cannot survive the coal industry. Funny that.

    Of course you may be referring to Hewson because he spoke up against your bad bad government employer OG. Can't have that can we.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    4:08pm
    Hey Mick you wrote [renewables] "how they are driving down the cost of energy"

    HUH????????????????????????
    Tell that to South Australians, our renewables "leader" with the MOST EXPENSIVE ELECTRICITY IN THE WORLD.

    So when will we see this "driving down the cost of energy" in our electricity bills then?...... crickets ..... still waiting .....

    FYI: There is NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD which has lots of renewables and low electricity rates.
    The two are INCOMPATIBLE!

    It's all leftist/warmist spin.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:06pm
    Your normal BS and deceit. If it were not for renewable energy the grid would be DOA and we would be paying $1 per kWh.
    The only spin is yours.
    Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    3:45pm
    I have never subscribed to the notion that the media play that big a part in who is going to run the country, nor do I subscribe to the notion that the unions have that much of an impact when Labor win. The current LNP is definitely on the nose, and are sure to lose the next election, the problem I have is that with Bill Shorten at the helm we are going to see things get worse, I know that some people think that you vote for your candidate and not for the leader, and to some extent that is true, but the leader is the one that does the deals, if the rank and file don’t agree with the leader they are not going to last long, most politicians look after No1 and that applies to both parties. As for Phelps winning the seat of Wentworth she was 12% behind the LNP candidate, she got in with Labor’s support and the other none entities from a variety of self interest groups, so in effect the lesser preferred candidate won the seat, she lied before the election stating clearly she would support the government, so a lot of the LNP voters registered their protest by voting for her, when the election comes about they may not be fooled twice. Unfortunately we are going to replace a disfunctional mob with another maybe worse disfunction mob. I guess time will tell.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    3:53pm
    I agree Jim.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    4:07pm
    LAUGHTER - the best antidote for ridiculous politician posturing...
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    4:07pm
    I’d you care for this countries future you will vote in the only government that will bring us back to a surplus budget by 2020 and pay off the enormous debt burden left is by labor
    Voting labor will almost certainly take our debt from the current $350billion to over $1 trillion with the destruction of superannuation and the pouring of hundreds of billions more into uneconomic renewable plants .
    Energy prices will skyrocket , out debt servicing burden will cripple the government , the A$ will sink to 40 US cents
    The list goes on
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    4:11pm
    Is that you OM posting under another name? Shame on you.

    Labor debt when it left office - $148 billion
    Current debt (LNP incurred) - $600 billion

    For the record the ATO claims the current debt is only $513 billion but this is not explained. Nevertheless the difference is there for all to see and six years of LNP government has put the country deep in the red....and no GFC on their watch. Please explain!
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    4:30pm
    Mick Labor debt 2022 $2 trillion.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:06pm
    Under the LNP more. Much more.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    6:40pm
    Nah - it's olbaid/diablo - he blew his cover last night for true..... worked out when and where yet, Loathie/Lowthie?
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    6:42pm
    Let us see your figures, OG... we're all curious..... $2 trillion you say... how many minefields is the LNP laying for Labor with locked in super-contracts for some mates and cronies?

    I know youse guys are strong on words and weak on links and substantiation.. but let's see the $2 trillion workings....
    Buggsie
    7th Dec 2018
    4:07pm
    After reading the hundreds of comments made so far I remain convinced that the main problem with our elected government is grounded in the electorate. Namely, many voters are blinded by their own ideology and not by rational thoughts about policies and practices. In short, parliaments are elected by voters who don't or can't think beyond their own self interests. Because of this Australia gets the prime minister and government that we deserve!
    Hence we now have Scott Morrison, a religious bigot of the first order, a member of the far right (remember Hitler, he was of the far right) a proven liar and someone who is quite OK with treachery rather than loyalty ( ref, Malcolm Turnbull). God help us all! Buggsie
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:07pm
    Wrong. The media grooms its party. That never changes. Guess who mostly wins? I never.
    Oznorm
    7th Dec 2018
    4:16pm
    The Liberal Party is damaged. The Labour Party is Damaged. The National Party is Damaged.
    We need an independents etc.party who are concerned for there constituents and not interested in Party Politics.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    4:29pm
    The whole party system in Australia today is beyond repair.
    TREBOR
    7th Dec 2018
    6:43pm
    So why support one side over the other, OG? Join the Reality crowd and vote for Independents until we wear the bastards down.
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    8:23pm
    I don't support either side but I am voting Labor last because of their unfair treatment of self funded retirees and SMSFs.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:54am
    Likewise OG. Except Greens come below Labor. and LNP will be third last.
    Knows-a-lot
    7th Dec 2018
    4:41pm
    Is the Lieberal Party damaged? One hopes so - terminally! I'd like to see those bastards annihilated completely.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    4:50pm
    Most leaners would
    They think labor will give them more and more handouts
    Silly billies
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    4:57pm
    Those handouts are going to come with a nasty after taste.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:09pm
    DOA. This lot will only ever give the rich more and more. If they win it'll be COMPANY TAX CUTS...for a starter.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    7th Dec 2018
    6:37pm
    And Labor has declared it will only give more to the rich and to the pensioner elite (no matter how wealthy or manipulative the latter may be), but it will ROB all low income workers and all SFRs who dare to invest in shares. I saw an estimate today that it will wipe $36 billion off the value of shares of Australian banks alone. What will that do to the economy? And when the economy flags, the poor suffer most. But the poor sods are so blinded by envy that they fall for a cheap bribe and believe Labor is looking after them.
    For the record, I detest the LNP and would NEVER vote for them, but Shorten and Bowen have sold out the nation and proved themselves unqualified to lead.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:20pm
    OGR - you are clearly sour because you are losing some franking credits. Me too!
    Perhaps email all Labor MPs and make the case for a threshold for franking credits. That would alleviate the problem...unless you are on a large income where the policy would be fair.
    Whilst both sides are bad lets take one step at a time. Get rid of the current batch because they risk turning our country into a dictatorship. Been working at it for at least 6 years and the next piece of the puzzle went in today. They'll be able to open your emails now and perhaps much worse. You are of course a terror suspect!
    When Labor is in work on getting more good Independents in unless Labor are very good.

    This should be the game plan!
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    11:30pm
    Don’t listen to MICK OGR
    Once Shorten gets in he will unleash an even bigger shitstorm the likes of which we have never seen
    The loss of few thousand $ in franking credits will be the least of our worries ,
    SFR’s will have restrictions placed on how soon they can claim part pension once the new rules come in to prevent them upgrading homes or spending assets
    There are runours that this will coincide with the gifting limits and timelines which is expected to be increased to 10 - 15 years
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:42am
    What is absolutely certain, Mick and Lothario, is that ALL retirees except the rich will be worse off under Labor - MUCH worse off. Lothario is right. A few thousand in franking credits will seem trivial compared to what's coming. But sadly, BOTH parties have agreed to the same plan. It's coming UNLESS we kick them both out and get independents in control.
    Knows-a-lot
    8th Dec 2018
    4:20pm
    I'm no leaner, Lothario.
    Not a Bludger
    7th Dec 2018
    5:20pm
    Your so called poll questions are pretty one sided as one would expect from an outfit that professes to support Getup.
    Want proof - see your avid supporter, Mick the Marxist popping his head over the parapet yet again - mind you, does he ever drop below it?
    Knows-a-lot
    8th Dec 2018
    4:22pm
    You're just another Rightard Lieberal troll.
    Old Fella
    7th Dec 2018
    5:33pm
    Most Politicians once inducted into the taste of the Gravey they eat from the trough, they become addicted to the gravy train. All they seek is further self-gratification. Their individual egos take 1st, 2nd and every other place in the Community they feed off. Certainly, they claim insights into the needs of the Nation and its Society but somewhere between successful appointment/election and actually actioning their pre-elected ethics and insights they lose their conscience and their stated commitment to the individual voter in the community. After decades of voting on promises, I find only exceptionally rare political seconds where the betterment of the population has been progressed.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:11pm
    Whilst I agree there is nevertheless a huge difference between the two sides. One governments irresponsibly for its wealthy supporters whilst the other at the very least care for average Australians.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:38am
    OMG, Mick! Surely you are not gullible enough to believe that CRAP. ''Care for average Austalians"!!!!!???? So why are they refusing to even listen to the AVERAGE Australians who paid tax for 50 years and are now threatened with hideous punishment for daring to be self-funded retirees on a random date, while Labor happily hands out millions to pensioners, giving them TRIPLE benefits.

    Why are they LYING about a policy that the say benefits mostly the wealthy, yet retaining the entire benefit for the wealthy and only taking it from poorer AVERAGE AUSTRALIANS?

    Why are they driving cars to work and living in flash houses with air conditioning and asking AVERAGE Australians to pay for outrageously expensive policies that they claim will fix climate change caused by their own excesses (if their nonsense is to be believed)?

    Labor doesn't care about AVERAGE Australians. It cares about BUYING VOTES. That's why it exempts pensioners from its cruel and unfair tax policy and lies hideously about the intent of and impact of the policy.

    Labor is just as just as much for its wealthy supporters as LNP. They BOTH pursue the same objectives. It's just a game for them - pretending to oppose this and support that, when in fact both parties agreed long ago what the shared goals where and which party would implement what, while the other PRETENDED opposition.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:38am
    OMG, Mick! Surely you are not gullible enough to believe that CRAP. ''Care for average Austalians"!!!!!???? So why are they refusing to even listen to the AVERAGE Australians who paid tax for 50 years and are now threatened with hideous punishment for daring to be self-funded retirees on a random date, while Labor happily hands out millions to pensioners, giving them TRIPLE benefits.

    Why are they LYING about a policy that the say benefits mostly the wealthy, yet retaining the entire benefit for the wealthy and only taking it from poorer AVERAGE AUSTRALIANS?

    Why are they driving cars to work and living in flash houses with air conditioning and asking AVERAGE Australians to pay for outrageously expensive policies that they claim will fix climate change caused by their own excesses (if their nonsense is to be believed)?

    Labor doesn't care about AVERAGE Australians. It cares about BUYING VOTES. That's why it exempts pensioners from its cruel and unfair tax policy and lies hideously about the intent of and impact of the policy.

    Labor is just as just as much for its wealthy supporters as LNP. They BOTH pursue the same objectives. It's just a game for them - pretending to oppose this and support that, when in fact both parties agreed long ago what the shared goals where and which party would implement what, while the other PRETENDED opposition.
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    6:03pm
    Over our history Labor introduced aged pensions and other welfare benefits. Labor gave us our Medicare Health System. Labor gave us our Superannuation System. Labor gave us our NDIS to help the disabled and carers. Everything good that serves the people has come from Labor governments over the ages. Labor withdrew our boys from a war we should never have been involved in - Vietnam. What has the Coalition ever done for us? The Menzies government allowed Britain to test nuclear weapons in our country and later sent our boys to fight in Vietnam. They have sold practically every asset the Oz people have owned. They did not protect our resources so that the Australian people benefitted. We in fact pay more for our own resource of gas than the rest of the world that buys it from the overseas companies the Coalition sold it to. Weigh it all up folks...the Labor governments have served our people far better than the Coalition ever did. When it comes to trust, I will allow mine to be directed by the history of these two past rulers - Labor and the Coalition of Lib/Nats.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    6:03pm
    Garbage
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:13pm
    That is spot on Robi.
    Remember that Medicare, NBN and universal superannuation also came from Labor. All you ever get from the LNP is taxes and tax cuts for the rich. There is a difference.
    Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    6:22pm
    Yes Robi, you are correct, that’s how politics has always worked, Labor gets in brings in all the socialist stuff we need, then when they can’t fund it along comes the LNP to pay for it, it’s worked fine for years and it’s probably they only way we can move forward. So I guess we can look forward to some feel good policies from the Labor/Greens coalition, their is one thing you can guarantee that is with the blackmail they will face from the Greens and independents like Phelps our population is going to have have a surge, not sure how we are going to fund it, we are struggling with the welfare bill now, but I suppose we can feel good about how generous we are going to be.
    Jim
    7th Dec 2018
    6:50pm
    Yes mick super was one of the best thing Hawk and Keating did, but they didn’t pay for it we did, we didn’t take our pay rise the first year it was brought in at 2.5% the cost was borne by companies paying for it, which they would have been up for anyway. We have had the debate about the NBN before, the system Labor wanted to bring in was totally unfunded and could never have worked for anyway near the cost that they had costed it. I think the NDIS was much the same, Labor comes up with some great ideas, but generally they haven’t a clue how they are going to pay for it, they make the promises and others have to go into debt to pay for it, it’s not such a bad way to get things done, and perhaps it’s the only way, we just have to make sure they are not there to long. The argument about tax is far more complex, but there will be many on this site, who like me worked heaps of overtime when we were young, most of our overtime was taxed at upto 60%, Labor always argued against workers getting a tax cut, preferring instead that employers employ more people instead, bracket creep was only ever addressed by the LNP, workers generally pay less tax now than we did. I have discussed many times on this site about the many people that rort the tax system, with a lot of bogus and inflated claims that cost the country $100’s of millions, why are we not as outraged with them as we are with tax avoidance by the top end of town?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    9:08am
    Super was one of the best things a Labor government has ever done, and now they are determined to wipe out the benefit and punish anyone who took advantage of it.
    sandiefran
    7th Dec 2018
    6:03pm
    I hope that Scott Morrison can pull the party together, because if the Labor party gets in (with the help of Malcolm Turnbull) the country will go downhill fast!
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    6:04pm
    Absolutely 100% correct
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    6:15pm
    Ha ha ha. You must be on blond planet.
    Labor debt $148 billion.
    LNP debt currently around $600 billion.
    So who is the better manager? Remembering that Labor ruled during the GFC there is a clear winner.

    Your post ignores the facts! Conveniently.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    6:21pm
    LNP debt before labor negative $70 billion - I.e we were a net lender not borrower

    Labor borrowed $250 billion in 6 years and left us with an annual budget deficit of $43 billion

    If LNP has not come in and stemmed the tide , that debt would have blown out to $700billion
    Instead is is now only $370billion

    By 2021 that $370 billion will start to reduce and down to zero by the end of 2028

    If labor get back in , they’ve already agreed to borrow $200 billion for uneconomic renewable energy power plants and payout an extra $100 billion a year in welfare as self funded retirees move onto part OAP

    By the time labor get kicked out in 3 years our debt would have ballooned to close to $1 Trillion
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    6:21pm
    Mick wrote "LNP debt currently around $600 billion"

    Of course with a Labor/Greens-lite PM like Turnbull!, what else?!

    He was obviously out to destroy the Liberal party so that his leftie/warmster friends in Labor/Greens could take over and push his globalist "globalwarming®" agenda.
    Robi
    7th Dec 2018
    6:32pm
    Scott Morrison can’t pull the party together. He is no different to the rest of the phonies. He is a shallow man who relies on advertising slogans to get his shallow messages across. He suffers from the same ego driven status bullshit of which people have had a gut full. He also doesn’t seem to know whether he stands with the conservatives or moderates. He is a shifting man on shifting ground and it stands out!
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    8:22am
    Much as I hate the LNP and their cruel policies, I have to agree with Lothario that Labor is by far the biggest economic risk now. We simply can't afford their stupidity and socialist attitude. They will destroy retirement for all but the wealthy, and push up to 1 million more onto pensions. Everyone is already in agreement that aged pensions are costing too much, so what happens when up to 1 million more are eligible, and the incentive for younger folk to save for retirement is completely abolished? The LNP was STUPID to change the assets test as that removed much of the incentive to save and created a ''sweet spot'' where retirement income and security is optimal. Labor is going to finish the demolition act!

    BOTH parties need to stop looking at SFRs as milking cows and start to recognize the realities. And SO DO PENSIONERS. Stop the greed and envy. SFRs have to live with high administration costs and/or countless hours of work to manage their investments. They live with uncertainty and high risk, the stress of seeing markets fall, the losses when investments go south and the consequential fear of running out of money. They often have low incomes and worry about draining their capital, which further reduces their income as there's less to invest. They are constantly being abused and told to ''just use your savings'', but the selfish mongrels who say that forget that a pensioner is handed about $1 million over the course of retirement - via instalments that fall into their bank account every fortnight, reliably and without risk - funded by taxpayers (including the children of SFRs and SFRs themselves - via indirect taxes and in some cases income tax). SFRs, on the other hand, live with fear that the dividend payment this quarter will be less than last, and share values will fall. While pensioners whinge about the inadequacy of a six-monthly increase, SFRs worry about a FALL in their income due to some royal commission, or market forces, or overseas politics, or just a mongrel politician making unfair laws.

    SFRs went without luxuries to save, and are now generally content to live on those savings and get virtually NOTHING from the taxpayer, paying more for almost everything because they don't have a concession card. But when greedy, selfish pensioners then say SFRs should be ripped off with 30% tax on their share dividends - refused franking credits - it's the thin edge of the wedge. Greedy mongrels want $1 million bucks handed to them , yet can't acknowledge that people who live with enormous stress, risk, administration and compliance headaches, and often far less income and higher costs, deserve at least a fair tax deal. And while pensioners claim ''entitlement'' due to a lifetime of paying taxes, they deny SFRs any ''entitlement'' for paying far more (in most cases) AND doing without to save so they continue benefiting the treasury.

    Until Labor recognises these facts and fixes their stupid franking credit policy, no decent, sensible Australian would vote for them. And their cheap bribe to get selfish pensioners to support them makes the nothing short of vile and disgusting.

    As for climate change - nice if we can all do a bit here and there, but Australia is a tiny pimple on the back of a giant bull, and to sacrifice our standard of living and accrue massive national debt to reduce the size of a tiny pimple is just plain DUMB. Furthermore, most of the initiatives are driven by self-interest and will have no impact other than to reduce our standard of living. Don't see Labor or even the hypocritical Greens walking to work or riding bikes, removing air conditioners from their homes and offices, or living in caves. When they start LIVING their claims, I'll start believing them.
    LUVCO2
    7th Dec 2018
    6:23pm
    "the little weasel Christopher Pyne"
    another leftie infiltrator, like Turnbull, out to destroy the liberal party!
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:22pm
    From a right wing party stooge. Pushing the coal poison which will kill us all.
    JOHN T
    7th Dec 2018
    6:44pm
    Well we are all at it again the main problem seems to be loss of memory from our current liberal leaders making false comments about pink batts and blaming Kevin Rudd when in fact the deaths should be on the employers who sent the souls into roofs without turning the power off .If the Liberals want to loss by a bigger margin they should put in Tony Abbott Do not let them put you down Mick remember Rossevelts saying walk softly speak softly and carry a big Stick John Tog
    Old Geezer
    7th Dec 2018
    8:26pm
    We will have pink batt-eries under Labor so they haven't learnt form their mistakes at all.
    MICK
    7th Dec 2018
    11:25pm
    Of course John. That was always the case. The question you have to ask is WHY the media was allowed to turn the story into 'Labor did this'. We need laws in this country to protect citizens from the lies and propaganda coming from the media barons who are simply trying to smear Labor and get their party back into office to hand these barons more of our money and a bigger monopoly.

    We need Political Anti Propaganda Laws so that media which grooms and lies is shut down.
    Lothario
    7th Dec 2018
    11:32pm
    Facist - you sound like Trump
    Any news outlet that criticizes labor are lying in your opinion
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    6:56am
    You are partly right, Mick. But equally we need protection from Labor's massive lies and media lies slamming the LNP unfairly (not that there's much criticism of either party that could be judged unfair).

    The bottom line is that we need both parties abolished - permanently. They are both evil, self-interested, inept, and disinterested in the good of the nation and the job they are supposed to be doing. We need a whole new system, and a whole new breed of people because, frankly, the Labor Party - which was my strong preference - is now the far greater risk, threatening a far worse disaster than re-electing the LNP (which was always a recipe for disaster)
    Curious
    7th Dec 2018
    9:02pm
    It looks like the two-parties political system has broken down. It has been dysfunctional for some time now. Since the Rudd-Gillard era and now the Abbott-Turnbull chapter, more people are voicing their dissatisfaction with politicians, relating to their directions and promises. Their party's line is so fragile and lacks vision for national long-term missions. The circulation of our monetary flow through physical productions and services is the main blood supply to our economy with limited seepage to foreign countries. In the globalization world, we need a skillful master to control these seepages without hurting foreign investments in our economy. It is important to find an equilibrium for a full labor employment at a fair wage to maintain a standard of living. The indexation for the standard of living must not include just only monetary circulation in our economy but also the benchmark for the value and belief in our lifestyle, which defines what Australians are all about. So far our politicians cannot see past the three-year-election period.
    1984
    7th Dec 2018
    11:42pm
    Seeming a climate change etc hat has been thrown in the ring, Canada is getting rid of ALL it's coal fired plants.
    https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/videos/from-coal-to-solar/200772637506771/
    Every little bit helps & we need to lead by example
    Old Geezer
    8th Dec 2018
    11:19am
    We don't have the facilities to generate 61% of our power by hydo like Canada. Nor do we have 16% nuclear or 10% gas.
    gerry
    8th Dec 2018
    8:20am
    cfmeu will rule ok:
    POLLIE BACKFLIP
    8th Dec 2018
    8:30am
    Best hope the Liberals have a good compass (some of them need moral compasses) because there is a very long stint in the wilderness coming. Dr John Hewson summed it up "an unfortunate combination of selfishness, ignorance and pure arrogance", all qualities held in low regard by mainstream voters and by the looks of it, a fair portion of Liberal die hard voters. However I am not looking forward to a union run Australia either, but we are now buggered for choice.
    Ductape
    8th Dec 2018
    8:41am
    Life Choices should alter their webpage to place the latest comment at the top of the page - not at the bottom. It makes far more sense.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    10:57am
    Labor ''cares for the average Australian" (according to some who are easily deceived. Here's one ''average Australian'' they care for: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/mum-of-nine-plans-to-have-more-children-for-centrelink-payments/ar-BBQBlg9?ocid=spartandhp
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    8th Dec 2018
    11:15am
    If memory serves correctly, it was Keating who brought in this ridiculous scheme that is now being rorted by hundreds of thousands who either contrive to appear to be single mothers or deliberately choose that path knowing the taxpayer will be forced to support them. We had a WIDOW'S and WIDOWER'S pension, which was cautiously extended to separated parents in genuine difficulty through no fault of their own. We did NOT need to invite selfish and immoral people to become parents so they could bludge on the taxpayer.

    Tell this lazy blood-sucking leach to stop having kids and GET A BLOODY JOB.
    Banjo
    8th Dec 2018
    11:19am
    The Liberal brand is tarnished, so is the Labor and the Greens brand. We need a purge in this country. Real politicians, not see how fast you can climb the ladder and reap the benefits monkeys.
    Old Geezer
    8th Dec 2018
    11:24am
    If you think Labor is going to look after the workers and the poor then have a read of this.

    Further evidence of the ineptitude of Labor in putting this policy together.

    Labor will unfairly and discriminatorily remove franking credit "cash refunds" from retirees, self managed super funds and low income earners.

    Under Labor's discriminatory and unfair policy, an elderly Australian retiree, who receives, say $40,000 in share dividends and franking credit "cash refunds" will have their income dropped by $12,000 to only $28,000 when Labor deny the cash-refund of excess franking credits.

    That is a massive drop in retirement income for retirees, who have no available alternative income.

    As if that was not unfair enough, apart from denying the retirees and low-income earners theit $ 5bn of tax-refunds, Labor will continue to give $34 Bn franking credits "tax-discounts" and will continue to give wealthy high income earners cash-discounts off their otherwise payable tax bills.

    These franking credits "tax-discounts", (as opposed to "cash-refunds"), go to the wealthy and high income earners. Receipients include individuals, large superannuation funds, such as industry funds, companies, and the big banks.

    Consider the following:-

    1. A wage Earner: Under out normal tax table for individuals, imagine a wage earner who puts in big hours and overtime and earns $100,000. Under our current tax the worker will be taxed $ 26,497, including the Medicare Levy for his big effort.

    2. A Wealthy stay-at home investor: If the investor also receives a $100,000 cash dividend from a company in which the investor owns shares, then under Labor's policy, this investor will only pay $354 tax.

    That's right ! The investor will pay $ 26,143 LESS TAX THAN THE WORKER on the same $100,000 income.

    The reason for this is simple. Even though Labor are taking the franking credits cash-refunds away from the eldery retirees and low income earners, they are not taking the franking credits tax-discounts away from the wealthy high income earners.

    The investor in this example will STILL claim franking credits as a cash-discount off his tax bill, and pay only $354 tax, including the Medicare Levy.

    So I have another question for Labor :

    Why do you consider it "fair" to confiscate $ 6 bn from elderly retirees, self managed super funds and low-income earners, YET continue to give franking credits tax-discounts to wealthy high income earners. ?

    As per our example, this means the wealthy investor will pay only $354 tax, but the worker will pay
    $26,497 tax.

    Mr Bowen says this is a "fairer" tax, please explain why it is fair ?
    Lothario
    8th Dec 2018
    2:10pm
    Is that $100k net or gross dividend ?
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Dec 2018
    1:08pm
    That certainly shows that Labor support the wealth but not the workers.
    Paddington
    8th Dec 2018
    11:28pm
    LNP is history. They left the House yesterday to avoid the possibility of facing a no confidence motion. I have been reading the comments from people on Facebook for a while and many have turned away from the LNP who once supported them. The recent Victorian elections proved even safe liberal seats are now in jeopardy.
    I think the Libs are very worried and just putting on a brave face.
    People are more astute now even the children like the young boy on Q and A last week.
    The environment matters to most people because we have children and grandchildren or nieces and nephews that we want to leave a decent world to.
    People have always voted from the hip pocket but they also care about issues.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Dec 2018
    6:50am
    A lot have deserted Labor also, after having supported them for a lifetime. They lost a huge number of supporters with their cruel and unfair franking credit proposal, and I suspect they will lose a lot more as the election draws nearer and their unfair and harmful policies become clearer. People are starting to wake up to their real motives - which have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the economy, much less fairness or looking after the ''average Australian''.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    9th Dec 2018
    6:52am
    And the climate issue is the world's greatest CON JOB, fooling fools. Labor couldn't care less about climate change. The Greens care, but have no clue what to do about it and Labor only pretends to care in order to make political mileage - same reason they pretend to care about pensioners and the less well off in society.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    9:53am
    Good on the Liberals for cutting short Labor's games and shame on Labor for such bad behaviour. Notice that Labor has caved in now too and passed the legislation as well. It certainly shows Labor's true colours.
    Misty
    10th Dec 2018
    11:03am
    Shame on the Liberals for shutting down Parliament early and Labor will bring amendments in again when Parliament resumes in 2019, this is not over yet or cut and dried.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Dec 2018
    1:00pm
    Maybe the Libs are sick of dealing with dishonest morons who float damaging policies with a pack of blatant lies and then have the gall to say they will NEVER reconsider no matter what evidence of their wrong is presented.
    Henry
    9th Dec 2018
    7:17am
    Liberals just don't get it. They cannot stop playing the blame game and blamers are losers not leaders. Morrison, Frydenberg, Dutton, Pyne, without fail they will always include derisive remarks about the opposition in their political postulations. Boys you need to grow up.
    disillusioned
    9th Dec 2018
    7:19am
    I'm totally disgusted with the Liberal Party. This is a mob of self-serving, smug, would-be dictatorials who just keep raising their own salaries, lurks and perks while doing a "slash and burn" on the rest of us. Years ago, to my constant regret, I voted in Abbott, who promised "no change to Pensions" then this "suppository of all wisdom" proceeded to do just that. And just how many damn PMs pensions, lurks and perks are we expected to fund when they retire? They are a total joke, and the way they go on in Parliament is a disgrace! Not one genuine political statesperson among the lot of them! The Liberal Party has made us a laughing stock among the rest of the nations! Roll on election day!!
    johnp
    9th Dec 2018
    9:04am
    Agree disillusioned 100%
    ex PS
    9th Dec 2018
    9:04am
    I believe that the Party has been damaged by a few Ultra Right fanatics. Their open defiance and hostility to any one who tries to operate closer to the center has caused almost irreparable damage to their own party, but they don't seem to care, they have let ideology take over from common sense.
    In their feeble attempts to gain everything they want they will destroy the very Party they profess to love, but it is not the Party they love, it is the power that belonging to it brings.
    The Parties only hope is to split from these dinosaurs and rebuild, it has already been proven that appeasement will not work, the more they are given, the more they want.
    I believe in strong opposition, if the Liberals don't fix their problems the whole country will suffer.
    Adrianus
    9th Dec 2018
    9:34am
    Meanwhile, all those Greens joining the Labor Party will form a very fiscally irresponsible party as they outnumber the Labor right. Their pragmatism in keeping a lid on their intentions is quite frightening. Be very afraid.
    ex PS
    9th Dec 2018
    11:11am
    Very interesting meaningless rant. As usual you try to divert attention from the subject that is damaging your masters by putting up a smoke screen of half truths. Were you a Public Servant by any chance.
    Misty
    10th Dec 2018
    11:05am
    So true, as one of their own said these old Dinosaurs have to go they are ruining the Liberal Party.
    BillF2
    9th Dec 2018
    12:50pm
    Once upon a time in the dim and distant past, possibly longer than most can remember, members of parliament were elected to represent their electorate. They had a personal responsibility to do the best they could for their constituency, regardless of their political affiliation. Now, especially over the last fifty years, the party has become paramount and the individual parliamentarian has no value other than as a rubber stamp for his or her party. It has reached the stage where we no longer vote for a person but a party, and even then the leader of the party. No one else matters. The Electoral Office doesn't even tell you who the candidates are at any given election, until election day.
    So, is it any wonder that, with no perceived value or responsibility, and remuneration far above and beyond the average Australian, the majority of parliamentarians behave like kindergarten children. Actually, worse than kindergarten children. And that applies to members of all parties. It's just that the Libs are throwing the biggest tantrum and having the most problems at the moment.
    Politics is all about power and control, but for a country to be successful and respected, it should be accompanied by morality, propriety, and humility. Unfortunately, in Australia, it is only accompanied by in-fighting, greed, and self-promotion.
    So, whither Australia?
    As the prophet Isaiah wrote some two thousand eight hundred years ago:
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors and women rule over them. O, my people, they which lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths".
    Sounds familiar?
    Ductape
    10th Dec 2018
    8:11am
    Sound familiar........my word it does! Learned men had the sense to recognise and record it then - and yet the majority of us still ignore the signs.

    Since human beings began to walk the earth, we seem to have learnt nothing else except a myriad ways to the sow seeds of destruction. In the annals of the universe, one final analysis is assured - that the rise of the human being was the saddest event to have ever occurred.
    VeryCaringBigBear
    9th Dec 2018
    1:06pm
    Today I sit thinking about how lucky I am to live in a very nice house, my grandkids are very happy as they have no mortgage stress, I get the full age pension to use to travel and I keep all my income from my shares investments under a Labor government.

    However is it fair that I have so much and self funded retirees will struggle without their franking credits under Labor? I could take the selfish path and say well it doesn't affect me but I think it is very unfair that I have so much compared to many self funded retirees and now Labor wants them to struggle with 30% less. So although a Labor government is no threat me yet I will be voting them last unless they either scrap their franking credit policy or replace it with one that is fair to all those with franking credits. They could get same result by only refunding 95% of franking credits to all.
    MacI
    9th Dec 2018
    6:58pm
    VeryCaringBigBear, while I admire your benevolent attitude towards self-funded retirees I think in general it is misplaced. In order for a self-funded couple who own their home to fail to qualify for a Part Age Pension they must have accumulated assets over and above the value of their home that are worth over $848000 or a deemed income of nearly $80,000 per year. It is true that the actual income that may be generated by their assets and from other sources may fall well short of the deemed income. However, in many case self-funded retirees are income poor by choice because they are not prepared to draw down on their assets to supplement their actual income. I accept that sometimes drawing down on assets can be difficult because of the nature of the assets held. For example, property cannot be sold off piece by piece and may require the difficult decision to sell property and invest the proceeds in something more liquid like cash, bonds and shares that would allow them to more easily draw down on their assets.

    As I understand Labor's policy people already receiving the Age Pension (or Part Age Pension) will not be impacted so only relatively well off self-funded retirees who have assets and/or income above the thresholds may be impacted.

    We lost our Part Age Pension when the assets test was changed and so we are now self-funded retirees. While we didn't like losing the pension we certainly didn't think of ourselves as victims. It didn't change the fact that we are much better off in retirement than the majority and feel blessed. We adapted to the change and still enjoy a comfortable retirement.

    While I am tempted to take a self-interested point of view and I admit it is often my first reaction when the government wants to take something away from me I like to think that by us, who are relatively well off, being less of a burden on the tax payer will mean others less well off will be helped. Maybe better education for my grandchild, better health, or even an increase to the base rate of the Age Pension. The question for the next election is which party will deliver a better, fairer Australia. Maybe, it's not a party that's needed but Independents who will hold whatever party holds government to account.
    Lothario
    9th Dec 2018
    7:07pm
    You are about to get slapped silly by Only Genuine Rainey
    1984
    10th Dec 2018
    1:45am
    Pity someone doesn't slap you around the ear'ole might wake you up to reality lol
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    9:50am
    Macl VGBB was worth many millions before he bought all his grandkids houses, upsized his own house to a McMansion and spent 10 years travelling the world before he reached retirement age. His grandkids now pay all his bills and he spend his OAP pension on travel. He is a good example of what is wrong with our pension system where people with millions can still get the OAP. He is far better off than that couple with $850,000 in assets with a million dollar home.

    Give him credit though he does know that if he hadn't rearranged his financial affairs he would have been in position where Labor would have taken 30% of his income. Now he keeps his franking credits as well. He knows how unfair the system really is.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    10th Dec 2018
    7:00pm
    Maci, you are clearly totally blind to reality and have no idea what you are on about. Sure, to not qualify for a pension you have to have either a high income or substantial ASSESSABLE assets. But there's a huge difference between ASSETS and ASSESSABLE ASSETS. Half the part pensioners who will keep their franking credit refunds are far, far better off than struggling SFRs who will lose them. As for helping the taxpayer... OMG! So you think that giving tax credits to millionaires with over $2 million in super and to workers on $250,000 a year, while taking the refunds from battlers who are saving the taxpayer $40K a year by struggling to live on the returns from maybe $750K invested (for a couple) and accepting low cost accommodation is GOOD FOR THE TAXPAYER? Really?

    I'm a struggling SFR, and I can't find a single aged pensioner - and I know hundreds - who isn't way better off financially than me, and hasn't always been way better off. But they cruised the world and bought fancy cars and expensive houses and gave fat gifts to kids, and now they get TRIPLE HANDOUTS while the ALP would deny me a fair tax refund, not just now, but for LIFE, no matter how poor I may eventually become.

    Consider this, Macl. If I had bought a $550,000 house instead of a $500,000 one, I'd be on a pension and getting franking credit refunds and concessions. But because I bought a house worth $50,000 less - and a VERY modest one at that - the ALP will punish me for the rest of my life. If I had dumped a loved one in an aged care home and gone cruising when I retired, I'd have been on a pension this year, but because I saved the government countless thousands by caring for someone, I risk losing 30% of a very low and desperately needed income.

    Yes, I can sell assets. And if I do that, what do I have in 25 or 30 years to pay for aged care. What do I have to pay for home help when I can't manage for myself any longer? How much, realistically, will $850,000 buy two decades from now?
    And why should I have to live on my savings, with not even a small fair tax refund, while others get $1 million from the taxpayer purse - in many cases for no better reason that they spent freely, gave money away, or bought a fancy house?

    Now my daughter and my son and my cousin are planning retirement. All of them will buy expensive houses and take costly cruises. All of them will be pensioners. They have planned to have incomes in excess of $60K a year (against my $25K), from the 'optimum' combination of pension, benefits and investment returns. They will cost the government $25K a year. My franking credits come to $7000. But you want the ALP to steal from me and reward them.
    Misty
    10th Dec 2018
    8:13pm
    OGR why don't you put your money in a Superannuation Fund?, you would be much better off that way, the secretary in Bill Shorten's Melbourne office said this would help many SF retirees, she also said the FC returned to investors came from the same tax bucket as the one the pensions come from.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Dec 2018
    12:53pm
    What a load of codswollop, Misty. Of course the a-holes in Shorten's office would spit out crap like that, because they are all about getting control. It's rubbish. I took my money OUT of an institutional super fund years ago because the fees were higher than the returns. You are swallowing Labor Party BS - and they spill it by the bucket load. The FC returned to investors is THEIR TAX THAT THEY PAID BUT DIDN'T OWE. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH PENSIONS. But keep believing lying idiots if you choose. It's people who can't investigate TRUTH who are destroying this nation.

    When investors can't get FC, they will claim pensions and cost the nation 3 times as much. That's plain common sense. Only an IDIOT takes a few thousand in fair tax refund from someone knowing their only recourse is to cost the nation tens of thousands more.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    11th Dec 2018
    12:59pm
    Misty, did you happen to ask those in Shorten's office why they relied on outdated 2014-5 figures to make the patently DISHONEST claim that 53% of FC went to people with more than $2.4 million in super - and when they planned to confess that their stupid policy LETS THOSE PEOPLE KEEP THEIR FC, but takes ONLY from battlers with low incomes? '

    Did you happen to ask them who this person is who allegedly gets millions in franking credits - so much that he/she must have over $100 million in shares - and what they are doing about it APART FROM ROBBING HONEST BATTLERS?

    Did you happen to ask these morons why they want to give FC to rich pensioners with multi-million dollar houses but not to struggling HONEST folk who support themselves by living in very modest accommodation and not having spent up big on fancy cars and cruises?

    Of course I know how they would answer. They know when they are talking to someone gullible enough to swallow their crap. When I talk to them, they hang up because I call them on their lies and present PROOF of their dishonesty.
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    6:29pm
    OGR if you carried on over the phone to Mr Shorten'e office staff the way you do on here it is no wonder they hung up on you. Why didn't you shop around for a better super deal then the one where it was costing you money? there are plenty to choose from and super funds on the whole are doing really well at the moment.
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    9:57am
    Misty, they hang up because they can't stand being caught out in their LIES. No other reason. Why don't I shop for a better super fund? Because there are circumstances that prevent me changing for one thing. For another, there are no better funds. Some appear to be doing well at times, and then they don't. A relative had $180,000 in super three months before retirement. At retirement, he had $80,000 and a letter of apology for ''making a few poor investment decisions that unfortunately eroded his balance''. A fund I was forced to be a member of at one point was taking money out of my pay that was supposed to be matched dollar for dollar by the insurer. At termination, after 10 years there was NOTHING, because unknown to members, the union-run fund agreed to pay the employer's workers' compensation insurance out of the super contributions.

    Why don't you stop believing ALP lies and BS and start learning how life is in the real world - or just show some empathy and respect instead of making wild ASS-U-MEs?
    OnlyGenuineRainey
    12th Dec 2018
    9:59am
    And BTW, Misty. Joining an institutional super fund would NOT solve anything. They will also lose through Shorten's treachery, as APRA has confirmed. Though some members won't notice the loss because they have never benefited from their credits anyway. The fund has ripped them off for years.
    Misty
    9th Dec 2018
    11:09pm
    Tonight's latest Newspoll has Labor 55%, Coalition 45%, if this trend continues I cannot see the Coalition winning the next Federal Election.
    Old Geezer
    10th Dec 2018
    9:42am
    Yes I voted Labor in that poll as I voted Liberal in the last poll. I bet many others do the same as me. I certainly wouldn't trust them at all.
    Circum
    10th Dec 2018
    12:24am
    The Victorian election result shows that your arguments are flawed Mick.The Heraldsun did seem to have a liberal bias but it had no impact on the result.The rusted on labour voters stayed put and I suspect the disenchanted liberals voted independent as well as labour.The green machine lost votes due to poor leadership and dumb policies .Nothing new there.
    Misty
    10th Dec 2018
    8:32am
    Labor, not Labour.
    MacI
    10th Dec 2018
    9:23am
    All the predictions are that the LNP are facing obliteration at the next election. If this comes to pass in my opinion it will be deservedly so. The party has allowed itself to be held to ransom by a small cohort of right wingers, some of whom are motivated by the self-righteous belief that all wisdom resides with them that it's their way or the highway. In some ways they are to be admired - at least they hold to their convictions. However, it seems to me that most of this cohort is motivated by pure vindictiveness and selfish ambition and preservation.

    They need to be punished so that hopefully out of the ashes will come a party will be unified and will actually put the country ahead of self-interest. One can only hope.
    Misty
    10th Dec 2018
    11:07am
    Don't hold your breath Macl
    Noodles
    10th Dec 2018
    7:25pm
    The only people who will be punished will be the people of this country when Bil Shorten opens the flood gates to so called refugees and then watch the reopening of detention centres which have now all been closed by this current government.

    I well remember writing to Kevin Rudd on this very subject and his office wrote back saying that they would keep the John Howard policy on stopping boats.

    We all know what happened and I do not trust Shorten one bit...the left of his party, the Greens and others are forcing his hand.

    For goodness sake look at what is happening in Britain and Europe...the people in those countries envy our current policy and if we go down this path AGAIN under Shorten they will think we are totally nuts!

    For this reason alone I will not be voting Labor.
    Lothario
    10th Dec 2018
    7:28pm
    Labor will open the floodgates because this will increase their voter base

    Vote labor to support mass migration of economic refugees who will go on welfare
    Noodles
    10th Dec 2018
    7:52pm
    The children we are bringing in for medical treatment will never return to Naru because immediately they set foot on Australian soil the do gooder lawyers take out legal papers so that they cannot be returned to Nauru.

    It is then going to cost the taxpayers millions in legal fees to try and get them out of the country. It will not work and we will end up with the child and his family being allowed in and all will go straight onto welfare. Some of these families are very large as well all know. Wake up Australia!
    Misty
    10th Dec 2018
    8:24pm
    What rot you write here Noodles, do you think the Coalition Govt won't send the children and adults they have already brought to Australia back to Manus and Nahrue?, of course they will and so will Labor, there is no way Labor will change the Border Policy to allow boats or people smugglers to operate again, THEY AT LEAST HAVE LEARNED FROM PAST MISTAKES, not like the lot in now. There are apparently only 6 children left in detention so are you going to blame the Coalition for bringing the children and their families that have come to Australia already?.
    Noodles
    11th Dec 2018
    8:37am
    What I wrote is fact. I saw Dutton on tv yesterday saying exactly what I said. The lawyers have made sure that once they arrive here a long legal process will begin and they will NOT go back to Naru or Manus
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    11:01am
    Noodles is that happening now under this Coalition Government?, is that why Peter Dutton is saying this?. Please explain.
    Noodles
    11th Dec 2018
    5:34pm
    This government" wants" to send them back to Nauru once medical treatment is over. I am not arguing with you on that.

    However, once these children arrive here in Australia, do gooder lawyers are slapping legal papers on them which prevents them ever leaving these shores. It will involve a very expensive legal process for this current government and I doubt they would win and I dont think Dutton thinks so either.
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    6:31pm
    So what is the solution Noodles?.
    Noodles
    12th Dec 2018
    3:37pm
    There is no solution....they will all end up in Australia, "blind freddy" can see that but we must stop any more comming in via people smugglers so that is why there must be no watering down of the current policy.
    Misty
    12th Dec 2018
    4:54pm
    I cannot see any watering down of either party's Border Control Policy.
    Farside
    11th Dec 2018
    11:06am
    the strident opinions on this forum are a stark contrast to those held by a majority of folks in the 15-35 age group. There is no doubt as to whose opinions will carry the day and it won't be pretty.
    Misty
    11th Dec 2018
    6:34pm
    Farside would you please elaborate, what do you mean by your comment?, I know the young are in favor of renewables and Climate Change is this what you meant?..
    Adrianus
    12th Dec 2018
    8:34am
    Farside cartoons are my favourite, so I understand the language Misty.

    Farside is saying the young can only lock onto 1 or 2 policies at a time. That is why Labor have been pushing hard on Climate and boat arrivals. When the young become older, do their cost/benefit analysis, and realise that those policies simply equate to higher taxes then they will become conservative voters.
    But this election is not about saving the planet or rescuing so called refugees, or moving 10 kids out of detention who don't want to leave. Its about the next 3 years.
    Misty
    12th Dec 2018
    4:57pm
    Those 2 policies will be around for the next 3 years and beyond so people will vote accordingly to their views on both of them at the coming election.
    Adrianus
    13th Dec 2018
    9:02am
    If Labor wins the next election, they will spend the next 3 years building more detention centres.

    They may be able to salvage those 17 detention centres they built last time in government, which were closed down by Scott Morrison.
    arbee75
    13th Dec 2018
    12:09pm
    Not just tarnished ............... more a severe case of galloping Verdigris


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